Don't mince your words, tell us what you really think.

…..and so is every other New Labour, Tory and Liberal turd who is prepared to passively accept the pro-Zionist Israel line as the policy of the UK government.

Scottish New Labour 'Friend Of Israel', David Cairns yesterday, on BBC News24, put the case against "totally unacceptable Hamas attacks" against Israel as stongly and determinedly as any Netanyahu or Livni.

If this state has created so much hatred here in the UK, how do the arabs feel? How can there possibly be any future for a state of Israel in the Middle East? What happens after the US economy collapses and China becomes the dominant superpower. Especially as the occupiers are ethnic Russians (Ashkenazis) who have displaced real semites from their ancestral lands?

Are the USA/UK hoping to rejuvenate their collapsing economies with a big new war?

Here is (eventually)another big question:

…..if Israeli continue with this vile action against Gazans, as it seems they will.

…….if the USA continues to support Israel in these actions as it appears it will.

…….if the UK and Europe by lame pleadings (whose only purpose is to save face at home) maintain support for Israel by default…..

….then where is all this leading?

Surely arab outrage will reach the point where Iran will begin to take an active part in supporting the Gazans. How many more will die before this point is reached. It is sticks, stones and primitive weaponry against the most modern equipment that the USA can furnish.

However, if Iran is drawn in, the numbers of dead will surely escalate massively. If Iran attacks, Israel will respond and no one will back down.

Israel cannot handle Iran unless it resorts to using its nuclear weaponry. Therefore it is likely that either this will happen (which will bring the whole world down on top of Israel) or the USA will step in on Israel's side.

If this happens it will not be long before Russia and China make their own calculations and involve themselves in this little local 'conflict' too.

…….anyone for World War Three??

Brown has elsewhere been accused of moral cowardice in his failure to speak out on the genocidal policies of Israel in Gaza. As if the matter might have caused him the occasional sleepless night.

His own record stands alongside that of Blair, Straw and others with the sanctions and no-fly zone policing of Hussein's Iraq which led to the loss of an unquantifiable hundreds of thousands of Iraqi lives.

Lest we forget.

The more recent horrors arising from the subsequent illegal invasion of Iraq – now approaching 1.3 million dead and millions displaced in direct and indirect consequence of the UK participation in that action, give little moral authority for any condemnation of Israel.

Without Blair (and Brown's) "international" support, Bush could not have gained sufficient domestic political momentum for the war.

Lest we forget.

In the practice of duplicity in policy and comment on Gaza, Brown is consistent. He has the instincts of the thug and cares not for the bloodstains on his hands nor on those hands he might shake. Brown, Blair, Straw or any of their co-conspirators will ever face trial for their international crimes. Neither will they face the terror of the oppressed of Gaza and elsewhere.

Lest we forget.

Brown has become an unconscionable creature who has lost touch with whatever conception of humanity he might at one time have held. To quote Mencken: "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." We might then incinerate their remains and dissolve their bones in acid that they have no chance of further poisoning the land.

Yet in that acceptance of fury and retribution to the exclusion of our own humanity, we join with the masters and mistresses of such indescribable horrors and support that continuity of despair.

The Nu-Labour party used similar tactics during the period of hospital closures. Some Nu-Labour ministers joined demonstrations in their local constituencies against closures.

On a more practical note I think as well as taking part in demonstrations all goods imported into this country from Israel should be boycotted. Lists should be produced itemising all goods in particular shops especially supermarkets so we can try and 'starve' the illegal and barbaric occupants of Palestine.

24/11/08

Business Secretary Lord Mandelson has called for deeper business ties between the UK and its "firm friend" Israel. The UK aims to raise trade between the two countries to £3 billion per year by 2012.
http://tinyurl.com/7b6ejn

Way too many *Friends Of Israel" in NuLabour for them to be objective in any way about Gaza.

Hang 'em out to dry in the next election.

In other hot news, bear goes to bathroom in forested area.

I don't believe Iran will become actively involved in this conflict. It's hard to think of it as a war, when one side is so militarily supperior to other in every imaginable way.

Iran would be committing suicide if it attacked Israel. Israel is itching to nuke Iran, thereby sending a 'message' to the rest of the Muslim and Arab world that would last for generations.

What's extraordinary is the power that Israel has over the leading governments of the West. Considering how small Israel is it's odd how much influence it has. Britain, for example, almost acts like Israel is great power that one has to be wary of, why is this? Why is Britain prepared to undermine its standing in relation to the entire Muslim world, sacrificing good relations in order to placate Israel? Surely, at the very least, one should expect the UK government to put our interests before those of Israel's? Or is that asking too much?

What seems obvious is that eventually, so day, the Western supported Arab, puppet dictatorships, with their corrupt kings and generals, will be swept away in bloody revolutions similiar to what happened in Iran. Then where will we be? How likely, after so many decades of oppression, and 'moderate' are the new revolutionary regimes likely to be?

Israel isn't crushing the resistance to the Israeli state, it's only pouring petrol on the coming firestorm. It may not happen tomorrow or in a decade, but it will come. Resistance to Israel and the West, the desire to fight back, is becoming ingrained in the culture of the region. This is incredibly dangerous. We seem to be setting the scene for a kind of 'religious' war which once it starts will be very difficult to stop.

My question is: What's the motive, what's the reason for the double-face politicians and others in our so-called governments to get on their knees and play the licking dogs of Evil? Is it:

a) Money, more money, and power, more power (fear and lust)

b) The belief in some sort of ancient prophecy, according to which a certain people, and none other, must rule the world;

c) Human sacrifices are needed to appease the old Blue Sky god;

d) People must die by the millions, because the Earth is already too crowded;

or e) All of the above.

I just want to know. Thank you!

I forgot, f) Lack of imagination? and g) Simple yet grandiose perversion.

//British diplomats on the United Nations Security Council are under direct instructions to offer "tacit support" to United States' efforts to block a ceasefire.//

What's going to happen is this: They'll support the efforts of the USA to block a ceasefire, and then write about it and sell their book, in five or ten years from now.

The game is rigged. We do not have any way of influencing large policy decisions (like Iraq, Israel).

Talk of 'voting them out' is useless.

Your vote is a means of population appeasement. Giving the illusion of influence.

There is a new revoltion coming.

I wish Mr Murray would set up a political party. We need a complete change in this country.Whether Israel likes it or not Hamas won their elections;International observers stating they were free and fair.(Remember Bush parroting on about 'bringing democracy to the Middle East')? Fatah, who'd been in power a long time didn't like losing so took up arms against their new, legally elected government.

I think what is happening in Gaza is obscene thuggery against virtually unarmed population, with no air force army or navy.Israel has created its own little Warsaw in it's own backyard and has broken countless UN resolutions and articles of the Geneva convention. Mr 'hope' and 'change' Obama? Forget it. The Israeli lobby has him just where they want him;under their control.(Look how many pro zionists he has in his new administration. VP elect Biden said recently in a speech 'you don't have to be Jewish to be a zionist.'

Lets see how the heroic IDF do against Iran if they decide to attack there next. The Iranians have a very large army and militia goups and have recently spent billions of dollars on the latest Russian weapon systems. The US administration was spinning away in the (controlled) press about how a nuclear Iran would 'shift the balance of power in the Middle East'. Mm, it would rather, wouldn't it. The only reason the Israelis and US Government don't want a nuclear Iran is because they realise that the Israelis might have to start behaving themselves for the first time in 60 years and start following the dictats of International Law.

I'm ashamed to be British (and I'm a right-wing WASP). We have as our 'leaders' a bunch of spineless, gutless, weak willed individuals we call politicians in this country.It won't matter who 'wins' the next election in this country (allowing the masses to think their vote actually means something) because nothing will change. Things will still be run to the plans of a liberal marxist agenda.

The fact is when you have a country with nuclear weapons like Israel who says they will resort to the SAMPSON OPTION its no wonder America and the UK keep thier trap's shut when the Zionist Jews go out to kill some Goyim.

Regarding Israel's ground offensive in the Gaza Strip and George Galloway being axed from Talk SPORT after scuffle with police at pro-Palestinian rally, paraphrased from today's article by Tamara Cohen from a nation newspaper.

"In Germany, they came first for the Communists.

And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

And then they came for the trade unionists.

And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

And then they came for the Jews.

And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up."

I fear this is a turning point, something smells very dark and sinister. The parallels with 1930's fascism are frightening. History has not been learnt, shame from the past is now here in the present. New Labour was a coup d'etat. May whoever reads these words resist with force only ever conjured from inner strength, only found from those that are oppressed.

Mark Wood.

Wellington. Shropshire.

I have been told that the UK was bankrupt in 1992 and to survive it had 'to sell its soul'. It's beholden to the US and Israel and their bankers. So as Paul C rightly pointed out we have no say on major political decisions. After 1992 the UK embark on a massive programme of illegal activities including open and secret sales of arms across the world.

In response to your comments, I am going to double my order of Jaffa oranges, you ignorant sandal munching bleeding heart commie.

That last comment was for Ruth.

To Craig. Yes Gordon Brown is a cunt, but not for the reasons you give.

Dave, it's about time you did us all a big favor and jumped off of the nearest high bridge onto a busy freeway. And please take your Israeli traitors and war criminals with you.

Ruth, you hit the nail on the head. Hit them where it hurts most.

If you do a web search (or click on the URL attached to this post) you'll quickly find how to identify Israeli produce by the barcode it carries; get lists of US, UK and European multi-national companies which support Israel; and plenty of websites trying to persuade you that sanctions don't work – but yes they do.

Oh, Don't Call Me Dave, since twice zero is still zero, I imagine Israel won't be benefiting much from your doubled order for oranges. Get yourself into a Starbuck's or buy yourself an Intel processor, or shop at Marks & Spencer. That will help your murderous friends.

Tom

I don't keep count of the amount of tax the Israeli government earns from me each year, but I hope they use it all to buy bombs. See you in hell with all your Hamas terrorist buddies.

Absolutely right Dave, sanctions are the way forward.
http://www.inminds.com/boycott-israel.php

Dave said 'I don't keep count of the amount of tax the Israeli government earns from me each year, but I hope they use it all to buy bombs. See you in hell with all your Hamas terrorist buddies.'

Well, I for one have never met anyone from Hamas or anyone I knew to be a terrorist, for that matter.

Still, GIYUS will always try to conflate criticism of the Israeli gov with terrorism, paedophilia or anti-semetism etc.

Tips for dealing with these people?
http://tinyurl.com/39t4a3

'Don't delete their comments unless they really are particularly offensive. That just makes it look like you haven't got an answer to them. Leave their comments up so we can all have a good laugh at them.'

It is not surprising to see them here as the links between Spicer et al and the Israeli gov are well established.

Who said anything about anti Semitism? Hamas has a policy of firing rockets indiscriminately into Israel and then hiding behind the civilian population. I don't hear anyone here condemning that.

No country can be expected to put up with such attacks indefinitely and I hope that the IDF will, once and for all, root out the Hamas terrorists and give them a taste of their own medicine.

Most moderate Palestinians support a two state solution. I believe the majority of Israelis also support this. Peaceful coexistence is possible – but not for as long as Hamas seeks the destruction of Israel. The inconvenient truth that you choose to ignore is that the Israeli bombing could have been avoided entirely if Hamas had listened to the moderate voices of the Egyptians and stopped their shelling of Israel.

Yeah but the problem is that the Israeli government doesn't want peaceful coexistence. Duh.

I dislike generalisations about Jews, some of whom are very active anti-Zionists.

very well said, its a tragic massaker and it will create a new generation of terrorists, it has the capacity to leave Obama in a heap of steaming dung, because Syria and Iran are not going to have their lands stolen, indeed Syria wants the Golan heights back. Israel is our of order and its supporters all over the world, in every newspaper column and forum, are supportive to theirt Mossad masters and zionist fringe, still holding the israely public enthralled.

Israel shoul;d be thrown out of the UN and put on the list of terrorist, rogue states, but thats just my opinion, we all know what will happen today in the security council meeting, a boot licking exercise par excellence. Thanks again Craig, your column shine's a bright light for human rights abuses right where it is needed.

Michael.

Brilliant Freudian typo. You questioned Bush as reliable authoritarian, not authority! Reliable authoritarian he is, of course.

Funny how the international usual suspects of the Left have been so quiet since the terrorist entity Hamas launched 5000 plus rockets into Israel. Hamas and its sponsor Iran have called for the oblioteration of Israel. So Israel, quite rightly, declares enough is enough and attacks Hamas to stop the rockets being fired. Cowardly Hamas places rocket launchers and munitions in civilian areas. Israel uses precision munitions to destroy these targets and of course some civilians, as always, get killed in these attacks. The whole situation is down to Hamas. If they stopped firing the Israelis wouldn't attack. The civilians voted in a Hamas government. they sowed the wind and now must reap the whilwind. There can be no ceasefire until Hamas is crushed. These spineless Western politicians are utterly pathetic.

Of course it must not be forgotten that America, UK and Israel are the three most warmongering aggressive countries, which possess nuclear weapons, in the world. So much for 'democratic freedoms' and setting a 'western world' example to follow.

Bliar, Brown, Bush, Cheney et al should be tried for war crimes, not held up as revered world 'leaders'.

The news as seen by brits is very sanitised.

Al Jazerra and Press tv via sky have reporters inside. the pictures of small children covered in blood bring home the truth…..

You've got to give it to Brown. He's perfected the appearance of equivocation to the level of art.

Israel: Learning From History

There is a word to describe Israeli settlements in land seized post-1967: Lebensraum.

There is a word to describe the restrictions on Palestinians, forcing them into tiny, overpopulated areas, denied aid and economics: Ghetto.

There is a phrase to describe the attack by a sophisticated, modern military machine on a mostly civilian population, causing significant civilian casualties, for the actions of a few: Collective Punishment.

The saying 'those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it' is not applicable in relation to Israel's actions. Israel certainly learned from the atrocities suffered by the Jews in the Holocaust.

They learned how to do it to others.

"A footnote on the uses of obscenity – 7,200 people read this entry between 15.30 on a Sunday afternoon and 08.30 on a Monday morning."–Craig

I'm tickled pink – one Irish blogger makes no bones about putting "fucking" in his headlines, on issues such as clerical sexual abuse of children, or the attack on Gaza, or various other important topics. He's often high up on Google for those subjects. One wonders whether it's the 'obsenity' itself or the implied vehemence that draws the hits.

On a more serious note, Israel is now using White Phosphorus in Gaza – against Geneva Conventions when used in civilian areas? Can there be a more densely populatead civilian area than Gaza?

This looks like a repeat of Beirut in 1982. The only way to stop the rocket attacks in Israel in the long term is likely to be dialogue.

@Dr Nick Ashley

You horrible little man.

What is their to say about large firecrackers which have killed about 20 Israelis in their entire history of use?

Perhaps you are one of those "humanitarians" who thinks that a scared Jew is equal to at least one dead Muslim?

For shame on you and if you are a doctor, well what can I say – So was DR Mengele!!!

"White phosphorus, depleted uranium and cluster bombs to be precise."

Ah, the usual cocktail. But they are taking great pains to "avoid civilian casualties" as Tzipi Livni confidently tells Sky News and CNN.

Blechhhhhh …

"Israel uses precision munitions to destroy these targets" –Dr Nick Ashley

There ARE no (much vaunted) 'precision munitions' — and especially when it comes to places like Gaza – or Baghdad. Kindly view this:
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/520.html

"Hamas and its sponsor Iran have called for the oblioteration of Israel."

Hamas has offered a twenty year truce. I assume you are thinking of Ahmadinejad's alleged threat to "wipe Israel off the map" – this is a very dubious translation, but ultimately irrelevant as the Iranian military is entirely under the control of the Supreme Leader, not the President. Read the Iranian constitution.

"The whole situation is down to Hamas. If they stopped firing the Israelis wouldn't attack."

Hamas held to its ceasefire. Israel refused to lift the siege. Meanwhile, the settlements in the apartheid West Bank keep growing.

"The civilians voted in a Hamas government. they sowed the wind and now must reap the whilwind."

That's terrorist reasoning.

"I don't hear anyone here condemning that."

This may come as a shock to you, but some of are mature enough not to see all conflicts as Goodies versus Baddies.

"No country can be expected to put up with such attacks indefinitely""

No country can be expected to put up with an apartheid occupation of part of its land, and a crippling siege of another. That doesn't mean Hamas and Islamic Jihad are justified in tossing rockets around.

Shocking fact: too wrongs do not make a right.

You're only democratically elected when the USA/UK *allows you to be* democratically elected. Otherwise, it doesn't count. See?

*two wrongs.

Ahem.

On the basis that all people that fight back against an occupier are terrorists that would mean that the French Resistance

were, so were the American colonists George Washington Ben Franklin etc etc…..

What do you expect from the laying bastards, masquerading as our politicians?

They've been in the pocket of the Zionist bankers for centuries. London City is owned and run by them. Pimp Balfour whored the country out in 1916 and gave birth to the bastard child, Israel, a few decades later.

Brown is just another Fabian Soldier, spreading the cancer of gradualism, in the stereotypical, two faced manner in which all of the Zionist puppets are operated. Move along … nothing new here …

Craig – you're a cunt yourself. How do you like that? Too incompetent even to hold down a government job in a country no one has ever heard of. Israel = sovereign nation that has suffered mothns of rocket attacks. Hamas = theocratic, homophobic polygamists who launched a coup d'etat against fatah and seized control of Gaza. Did you know that their leader who was killed last week had four wives and sent his 22 year old son to be a suicide bomber in Israel? It shames me that idiots like you on the left should seek an alliance with these evil people.

Eddie you are obviously someone with very little grip on reality. Israel never respected the "ceasefire" in the first place, back in Sept/Nov 08 they bombed Gaza don't forget. Have a look at a map too, see how Israel has split Palestine in two and how it suffocates Gaza.

It's amazing isn't it. Russia used "disproportionate force" against Georgia, yet Israel is absolutely correct in it's mindless slaughter of innocents.

"BOYCOTT ISRAEL"

"People of good conscience have chosen to boycott israeli products and companies supporting the zionist entity. Their ethical purchasing decision however is frustrated by the lack of accurate information as to which companies to boycott."

"We have carried out extensive research to identify the guilty companies. All our findings are provided here. Where ever possible, we have included full references for the source of our information so that you may independently verify its accuracy and understand exactly how each company is contributing its support to israel. We thank all those organizations who's research we have utilized."…
http://tinyurl.com/9jfygk

"Arsenal Football Club"

"Why It Rains: Hamas holding ?Israeli? gas reserves hostage"

"Jake Bower, The Electronic Intifada, 5 July 2006"

"An unexpected energy windfall on Israel's doorstep promises to resolve Israel's energy security concerns for years to come. Unfortunately for Israek, it is the Palestinian Authority that controls the licensing of these reserves. So, as Operation Summer Rains washes away the administrative and political structures in the occupied territories, has Israel decided to use Hamas as an excuse to dismantle the PA and seize its energy assets?"…
http://tinyurl.com/9mzs4v

"if you think the title is obscene"

Yes I do craig.

I want you to promise you will never use the word "Brown" again.

I like these quotes –

It is not always the man society finds most respectable who is likely to try to do what is right.

Thousands of senior British diplomats, civil servants and members of the military knew of our policy of acceptance of torture.

You don't have to be a saint to call torture when you see it.

Diplomats rather pride themselves on not caring.

Executive Outcomes ?" as enthusiastic a band of white killers as has been unleashed on Africa since King Leopold ran the Congo.

It was the old story ?" trained white men go in, shoot up a load of Africans and gain control of key economic resources.

I doubt whether Israel controls London or New York, it's more the other way around. Israel was founded so that the Illuminati/NWO elitists can keep a foothold in that region. The people who were brought in (mostly Khazarian Jews with roots in Southern Russia) were ideally brainwashed into their part. Miseducated and disinformed about who they were, where they came from and how the world is against them, they're the useful idiots doing the bidding of the ruling elites. (none of whom are either "Jewish" "Christian", "Muslim" "Hindu" etc. but all answering to a hidden eugenicist/freemasonic calling to which they must obey – if they don't well…..check out who was assassinated or died rather quickly to some malaise or accident)

Odd how PNAC writes out in the late 90's about who they want to take out, such as Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran and Syria and how all is coming to pass. Not forgetting of course that they stated that nothing of that event will happen without a "Pearl Harbor type of event"…… Anybody know where these people buy their lottery tickets??

PS Check out http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com

If an elected MP puts foreign interest's ahead of his own constituents, is this not treason? After reading Tom Kennedy's article can see this as an issue, his expose was truly stunning and should be issued free as a leaflet from the NHS. It would aid mental health in the U.K. dramatically. I think Spin Watch needs a place saving on my browser.

Posted by: ingo at January 5, 2009 9:12 AM

call them what you want, Zionists, Khazars, Israelis or Jews, same problem, same solution.

ingo – Khazars are the begetters of the Zionists who went on to establish the illegitimate, pariah, parasite, apartheid state of israhell.

Khazars or Ashkenazis, as they prefer to be known are Turkmenistani descendents who converted to Judaism in 740ad at the behest of their king. They are not and never will be semitic Jews, and should not be confused with semitic Jewish people. The Khazari Ashkenazis – often referred to as the 'demon dogs of zion' – are in some quarters not even considered to be of human origin, this being inferred from their on-going behaviour. They were the original anti-semites, who looked down in scorn on semitic Jews who lived peacefully alongside all their neighbours ie Arab peoples.

The actual Jewish race or tribe are in the main a highly civilised, educated and generous people. Shame about the Zionist devils.

If (d) the term "terrorism" means an activity that ?"

(i) involves a violent act or an act dangerous to human life, property, or infrastructure; and

(ii) appears to be intended ?"

(A) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;

(B) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or

(C) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, kidnapping, or hostage-taking

then Israel is a terrorist and anyone purchasing a product made in Israel is sponsoring terrorism and subject under our terrorism laws to twenty-eight days detention without charge. So I don't think I'll be buying any more flat-leaf parsley or any other produce from Israel in my local supermarket.

Thanks to the Pakistan Daily and the blogosphere buzzing this has already been dubbed headline of the year
http://www.daily.pk/world/europe/9021-gordon-brow…

With posts at Obnoxio, My own blog, Devils Kitchen, and Mark Wadsworth and a few others

One friend of mine laughed her self silly when she saw it

What can I say I like it Blunt and to the point

The Pakistan Daily grabbed your blog and published it. the headline is all over the place. Screenshots everywhere. The headline of the decade. LMFAO!!

Dear Steve,

I don't really care. The truth does hurt doesn't it? This whole episode was kicked off by Hamas. Have you seen the vids of the secondaries going off as arms dumps hidden in mosques and greenhouses get hit?

No one complained when the British base in Basra, Iraq was being mortared and our troops went into the city and gave the Mahdi militia a good kicking and killed a few hundred. There was no international screaming about a ceasefire nor was Brown terribly bothered, nor Sarkozy nor Ban Ki Moon. But Israel does the same and the condemnation is deafening. Well, the Israelis will just get on with it and hopefully obliterate Hamas.

M. Wood:

That was Buzzz's post, not mine. It IS excellent material.

The question arises: what leverage does Israel have that politicians from all parties in the UK and US are obliged to pay it homage? What would happen if a politician opposed Israel's interests? It's worth looking at the fate of U.S. Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney who had voiced support for the Palestinian people. She was the incumbent and had been elected for five terms. When re-election time came, money flooded in to her opponent's campaign coffers, most of it from New York, even though the election was in Georgia. She lost the election.

More details at http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/aug2002/mcki-a2…

Your title is not harsh enough Craig. Brown and co are just cowards who dont want to upset the real shadow Zionist government behind the scenes that more and more people are waking up to by the day.

Dr Nick Ashley

Get your facts right. Israel broke the ceasefire with an unprovoked military attack on the Gaza strip on 4th November resulting in several Palestinian deaths, plus its failure to abide by the terms of the ceasefire and ease the siege on Gaza. You've been listening to too much Israeli propaganda disguised as news reports. Instead read the report of Special Rapporteur of the UN, Richard Falk who is Jewish by the way.

As for your lousy analogy, people if you remember were protesting in the streets all over Europe against the Iraq war before it even began! Had we known about the Basra episode at the time, and it not having been sanitized by the British Military, I'm sure – like the rest of the massacres unreported in Iraq, it would have produced a large outcry.

Actually Hamas had been breaking the ceasefire for months before the Israelis bombed a tunnel in November. The number of rockets reduced but they were still being fired at regular intervals. So don't try to claim that the Israelis broke the ceasefire. What should the Israelis have done? Imagine that Plaid Cymru had taken control of Wales and they were bombing Hereford. Do the English sit back and do nothing? And why is the border with Egypt closed? Arab brotherhood in action?

Actually Hamas had been breaking the ceasefire for months before the Israelis bombed a tunnel in November. The number of rockets reduced but they were still being fired at regular intervals. So don't try to claim that the Israelis broke the ceasefire. What should the Israelis have done? Imagine that Plaid Cymru had taken control of Wales and they were bombing Hereford. Do the English sit back and do nothing? And why is the border with Egypt closed? Arab brotherhood in action? And don't you idiots realise that words like "genocide" and "Holocaust" in the context of Gaza simply discredits your argument? To compare the systematic slaughter of 6 million Jews with what is happening in Gaza is feeble minded.

Yes Brown is an evil two-faced cunt and worse. What is happening in Gaza is the end 'logic' of Zionism – massacre and transfer.

But there's no need for the conspiracy nuts to explain it away as a Jewish plot. The real backers of this are the decidedly non-Jewish Christian Zionists, Bush, Blair, Brown and of course now Obama.

The reason doesn't lie in genetics or skin pigmentation, leave racism to the Zionists. It is in the nature of capitalism and imperialism and the oil interests they pursue. Israel has ensured that the Arab regimes are dependent on the USA for 'protection' – against their own peoples and if necessary Israel (if they step out of line).

Try looking for logical explanations for what is happening, not retreating to Nazi conspiracy theories. Unfortunately settler colonial states have a habit of behaving like this – be it South Africa, the US or Australia in their time.

For more info:
http://www.azvsas.blogspot.com

BXBrian

Hamas does not control all the rockets landing in Israel, but made the best effort it could to stop them. Furthermore, the rockets have killed about 20 Israelis since about the year 2000 compared to about 5000 Palestinians being killed in the same period by Israelis, so this is hardly a credible threat and is being vastly exaggerated. (I don't know the figures of Israeli dead by other 'methods' but I know the ratio is at least 5 Palestinians to every Israeli). By the way, it is known that the Israelis have sometimes launched rockets themselves and blamed the Palestinians in order to justify a 'response'.

I think the credibility of Richard Falk far exceeds your ill informed opinion.

I'm sick of hearing this 'Israel has a right to defend itself' argument, when it is in violation of multiple United Nations resolutions, is Illegally occupying large areas of the West Bank, and refuses to return to the 1967 borders as per these resolutions in defiance of International Law.

Contrary to your selective views, this is genocide – not the industrialised version of Nazi Germany, no, but rather a systematic long term plan of forcing the Palestinian people to scatter into oblivion, with daily abuse and oppression: Air Strikes, Assassinations, Arrests, Torture, Sniper fire on children, bulldozing of houses, Military raids, Annexation of land and water resources, Siege and Wallbuilding, Apartheid policy, Blockades, Economic Sanctions – the list goes on and on, all well documented if you can be bothered to check. Your own pathetic analogy of Plaid Cymru discredits your argument

Israel is a Terrorist State BXBrian and you need to read some Noam Chomsky to get your head straight. The Palestinians also have the right to defend themselves against Illegal Occupation and oppression. However unlike Israel they do not have access to $6 Billion annual dollars of US Military Aid in the form of F16's, Abhrams Tanks and Apache Helicoptors (plus a 150+ nuclear arsenal). Instead they have to resort to improvised Rockets and mortars.

Since you're wondering why the border with Egypt is closed I will explain it to you: Like many states in the Middle East, Egypt has a US sponsored and funded puppet regime with a CIA trained secret police which is more than enough to suppress the population's dissent. Egypt is bankrupt and its government corrupt, and that is why it will not disobey the US by opening its borders.

I totally agree that there has been extreme violence from both sides, but the simple fact is that the David & Goliath story has been turned on it's head, with Israel by far the more aggressive and brutal. Most of this however, we don't get to see in our sanitized media, in much the same way that Israel is cutting off reporting in the Gaza Strip

"Gordon Brown Is a Murderous Two Faced Cunt"

Murderous, yes.

Two faced, absolutely.

But Craig you don't advance your argument by then resorting to such sexist language.

Michael,

Don't condemn an entire ethnic group (the Khazar) as that is racist in itself. This is the policy of an Elite group of politicians and corporate heads whose ideology – Zionism – is equivalent to Nazism in its voracious appetite for power.

A huge number of Israeli Jews are opposed to this conflict.

BXBrian

Hamas does not control all the rockets landing in Israel, but made the best effort it could to stop them. Furthermore, the rockets have killed about 20 Israelis since about the year 2000 compared to about 5000 Palestinians being killed in the same period by Israelis, so this is hardly a credible threat and is being vastly exaggerated. (I don't know the figures of Israeli dead by other 'methods' but I know the ratio is at least 5 Palestinians to every Israeli). By the way, it is known that the Israelis have sometimes launched rockets themselves and blamed the Palestinians in order to justify a 'response'.

I think the credibility of Richard Falk far exceeds your ill informed opinion.

I'm sick of hearing this 'Israel has a right to defend itself' argument, when it is in violation of multiple United Nations resolutions, is Illegally occupying large areas of the West Bank, and refuses to return to the 1967 borders as per these resolutions in defiance of International Law.

Contrary to your selective views, this is genocide – not the industrialised version of Nazi Germany, no, but rather a systematic long term plan of forcing the Palestinian people to scatter into oblivion, with daily abuse and oppression: Air Strikes, Assassinations, Arrests, Torture, Sniper fire on children, bulldozing of houses, Military raids, Annexation of land and water resources, Siege and Wallbuilding, Apartheid policy, Blockades, Economic Sanctions – the list goes on and on, all well documented if you can be bothered to check. Your own pathetic analogy of Plaid Cymru discredits your argument

Israel is a Terrorist State BXBrian and you need to read some Noam Chomsky to get your head straight. The Palestinians also have the right to defend themselves against Illegal Occupation and oppression. However unlike Israel they do not have access to $6 Billion annual dollars of US Military Aid in the form of F16's, Abhrams Tanks and Apache Helicoptors (plus a 150+ nuclear arsenal). Instead they have to resort to improvised Rockets and mortars.

Since you're wondering why the border with Egypt is closed I will explain it to you: Like many states in the Middle East, Egypt has a US sponsored and funded puppet regime with a CIA trained secret police which is more than enough to suppress the population's dissent. Egypt is bankrupt and its government corrupt, and that is why it will not disobey the US by opening its borders.

I totally agree that there has been extreme violence from both sides, but the simple fact is that the David & Goliath story has been turned on it's head, with Israel by far the more aggressive and brutal. Most of this however, we don't get to see in our sanitized media, in much the same way that Israel is cutting off reporting in the Gaza Strip

I wouldn't call anyone by any part of the female genitalia, even if it's in Anglo-Saxon. I guess it's partly because I'm very much into actual female genitalia.

One thing Gordon Brown is though, he's an unelected occupant of No. 10.

Michael, you say 'the Jews'. Noam Chomsky is a Jew, and UN Rapporteur Richard Falk is a Jew. Both are opposed to Israeli policy as are thousands of others.

I'm well aware this is a program of Genocide – see my other post – however this is a policy of Zionists (a political ideology) not Jews, who are a religious group.

I will not condemn all Jews for the actions of a few power meglomaniacs hiding behind Judaism, any more than I could condemn all Palestinians because a few might wish to destroy all Jews. This would be like condemning all Germans because of the ideology of the Nazis.

You need to see the Doublethink in your own statements.

Hilarious. Look at the Google results:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Gordon+Brown…

This may work better
http://tinyurl.com/73gctd

Calling Gordon Brown "a Murderous Two Faced Cunt" is perfectly appropriate.

Those who think this is a gratuitous use of swearing clearly have no conception of what is going on, nor do they understand that Brown and Blair are psychopaths, completely devoid of a conscience, just as Thatcher was, exemplified when she sat down to have tea with Augusto Pinochet, a brutal dictator.

A little publicised document is "The UN Report Prepared for Ralphe Bunche", listing all the atrocities committed by Jewish terrorist groups when Palestine was in British hands. Jewish terrorists even threatened to take their campaign to Britain and kill British civilians:
http://www.jrbooksonline.com/HTML-docs/bunche-report.htm
http://www.doublestandards.org/unbunche.html

One pertinent entry:

On December 30, 1947, after the kidnapping and flogging of a British Major and three sergeants by Jewish terrorists, "the Dollis Hill Synagogue in London was set on fire and 12 sacred scrolls were destroyed by angry British citizens who scrawled on the burned edifice, 'You whip – we burn'"

Other Jewish terrorist acts included: plots to blow up British military headquarters, the kidnapping and hanging of British military officials, killing British policemen, letter bombs to numerous British government officials, machine gun attacks on Palestinian cities, bombing hotels, blowing up trains, blowing up oil pipelines, detonating bombs at British embassies, detonating trucks laden with explosives, and bank robbery.

In 1980, the Stern Gang (also known as Lehi) was officially honoured by the Israeli government as "freedom fighters". The Stern Gang was one of the most active terrorist Jewish groups during the 1940s, whose stated goal was to "forcibly evict the British authorities from Palestine, allowing unrestricted immigration of Jews and the formation of a Jewish state". A special Lehi ribbon – a military decoration – was designed for the former members.

The U.N. report writes: "There appears to be no way to control the Jews or their determinations to drive all of the Arabs out of Jerusalem by force if necessary.

"The initial Arab response to Jewish harassment over the past year has been very slow in coming, but it seems to be quite inevitable, and a terrible civil war is foreseen.

"The Arabs, initially living in peace with the Jewish minority, have been increasingly victimized by the Jews who, now that the British are leaving, are turning their savage behavior against them."

Agreed John. It's precisely for situations such as these that swear words were invented.

Michael,

How do you know it is a 'small minority of jews'?

Have you counted them at all? Don't forget that they are being conned by propaganda.

I am merely pointing out the flaw in your logic of condeming racism, then displaying that same emotion in your comment.

This is not about race, Michael it is about power. A small group of facists has hijacked the Jewish identity in the same way that Hitler hijacked the German people having realised how to control peoples minds.

If all the Jews as well as the rest of us in the West knew the real truth about Palestine, I'm sure the majority would be persuaded of the injustice, but they do not get access to this truth.

For years I shared the 'mainstream' view of the conflict until I studied propaganda and Western foreign policy, because I am naturally a questioning person.

By the way Michael:

see the following:
http://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/

There have been demonstrations in Tel Aviv against the invasion. Young Israelis have been imprisoned for refusing to take part in the oppression of Palestine.

p.s. I am neither jewish or muslim – I am a pacifist atheist!

Hi Michael, Please start your own blog, and let us know. You'll have me save it to My Favourites. Overall, a terrific discussion. Let's make a noise that'll pop the Zionists' eardrums and be heard round the world!! – London Demo Jan 10.

http://www.redress.cc/global/redress20070728

Brown become patron of Jewish National Fund UK
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=120962…

Brown wears a kippah and congratulates Israel on the anniversary on the founding of its state in 1948, ie the Occupation, the Al Nakba when the Palestinians lost their land and their homes.

I am trying to reach Craig to invite him to speak at a The Alternative View event in London over the weekend of 29/30/31 May 2009. Unfortunately the contact Email address of craigmurray(AT)mail(DOT)ru is bouncing my emails back.

Please respond to ianrcrane(AT)hotmail(DOT)com

Thanks & regards,

Ian R Crane

I would like to extend an invitation to Craig to speak at The Alternative View event to be held at the Thistle Hotel, Heathrow over the weekend of 29/30/31st May.

Please contact Ian R Crane at ianrcrane(at)hotmail(dot)com

Thanks & regards,

Ian

As the humanitarian crisis deepens, and people around the world call for an end to this butchery, Tzipi Livni, the state's foreign minister, said: "There is no humanitarian crisis in the [Gaza] Strip, and therefore there is no need for a humanitarian truce."

And so is Kevin Rudd!!!

eddie:

“do you support suicide bombing”

The current Israeli policy will inevitably result in more suicide bombings.

“misogyny, polygamy and homophobia”

Sadly common attitudes in that part of the world, but bombing will not change them.

“if you support Hamas”

Opposing Israeli policies does not imply supporting Hamas. There is no reason to assume Michael supports Hamas.

“As for Chomsky, as well as being Jewish, this is a man who supported the Holocaust denier Faurisson”

Chomsky supports the right of free speech, and quite right too. If you do not support the right to utter speech you find objectionable, you have a similar free speech policy to Stalin.

“and denied the genocide in Cambodia. I don’t believe a single word he says.”

Lie. Smear.

Michael: You are racist arsehole. As not all ideas are equal, you do not get to avoid criticism by whining “I have a right to my opinion”.

Here's a phrase you see often – this example is from today's BBC website, reporting on the invasion of Gaza:

"Information about what is happening inside Gaza is limited as Israel has barred foreign reporters from entering."

Firstly, information is not "limited". There is top-quality reporting from the Arab journalists who are still managing to get reports and pictures out.

Secondly, even if the BBC were there, we would NOT receive true and accurate reports. The BBC would NOT show us the horror of what the people of Gaza are enduring in the same hard-hitting way that Al-Jazeera, for example, does. We would instead get a fictitious "balanced" report, with coverage from the Israeli troops' point of view, and with a face-to-camera analysis of the political situation etc etc, but with a sanitised view (albeit, interspersed with the usual warning about 'disturbing' images) of the effect the invasion has on Palestinian life and limb.

The Arab channels are showing burned children's bodies, old people, ordinary women and men, covered in blood or weeping for their dead relatives. These images would not sit too easily with the sort of analysis the BBC wants to push.

Michael

That rant against the Jews would not be out of place on a BNP message board. It is contemptible racism and illustrates the depths to which some so-called "leftists" have sunk in their hatred of the USA and Israel and their support of fascist Islamists. So tell me straight, do you support suicide bombing, misogyny, polygamy and homophobia? Because if you support Hamas you are implicitly supporting views that should be anathema to any self respecting person on the left. As for Chomsky, as well as being Jewish, this is a man who supported the Holocaust denier Faurisson and denied the genocide in Cambodia. I don't believe a single word he says.

eddie:

"do you support suicide bombing"

The current Israeli policy will inevitably result in more suicide bombings.

"misogyny, polygamy and homophobia"

Sadly common attitudes in that part of the world, but bombing will not change them.

"if you support Hamas"

Opposing Israeli policies does not imply supporting Hamas. There is no reason to assume Michael supports Hamas.

"As for Chomsky, as well as being Jewish, this is a man who supported the Holocaust denier Faurisson"

Chomsky supports the right of free speech, and quite right too. If you do not support the right to utter speech you find objectionable, you have a similar free speech policy to Stalin.

"and denied the genocide in Cambodia. I don't believe a single word he says."

Lie. Smear.

Michael: You are racist arsehole. As not all ideas are equal, you do not get to avoid criticism by whining "I have a right to my opinion".

"Tzipi Livni, the state's foreign minister, said: "There is no humanitarian crisis in the [Gaza] Strip"

Presumably she means Palestinians aren't really human.

Eddie:

Chomsky was defending Faurisson's freedom of specch, not denying the Holocaust. Quote: "Faurisson's conclusions are diametrically opposed to views I hold".

OrwellianUK:

You make a good point about a small minority of Jews giving the majority a bad name. The same applies, of course, to those who have hijacked the religion of Islam in the pursuit of tribal or political objectives.

I don't like the terminology used to describe them, either: "Islamist" makes a religious connection which frankly isn't there; while "fundamentalist" implies that they represent the fundamentals of the religion, which they do not. "Heretics", "literalists" or "extremists" would be more accurate.

Tom: "Fundamentalist" was originally used to describe a small brand of American Protestants who returned to what they considered the five fundamentals of Christianity. Other Christian groups (i.e. most of them) would disagree on the selection of those fundamentals. The Muslim fundies are in a similar situation.

"Extemist" and "heretic" each requires an entirely arbitrarily set "moderate" position. They are useful only as name-calling propaganda to demonise dissidents. "Literalist" doesn't work because of the diverse set of ideas that could be taken literally.

Finally a catch-all term for "Islamists" is unhelpful anyway, as there are diverse groups with sometimes contradictory goals. Takfiris (including Al-Qaeda, and the media will often brand any takfiri as Al-Qaeda) see Shia as heretics deserving of death. Hamas never imposed Sharia law on Gaza.

Michael,

Having read through the thread, you make many good points but you repeatedly fail to differentiate between Jewish people and the supporters of an aggressive Zionist state. The two things are not equivalent and a hatred of Jews – or any other race – is completely unacceptable.

If you are going to continue to comment here, I first want an unequivocal assurance from you of your agreement on that point.

Chomsky went well beyond support for Faurisson's right to free speech as I am sure you know. This is well documented, as his is denial of genocide in Cambodia. You are right about Michael.

I can say any old crap and declare it to be "well documented".

Document it then.

Thanks, amk.

I think it's important to find a way of describing those anomalous groups which are cited as representative of Islam (or Judaism etc) in such a way that an ordinary man or woman will understand that they are far from the mainstream of their claimed faith. Most people will not be interested in abstruse discussion of technical terminology – it needs to be kept simple.

The use of words such as Islamist, jihadi etc obscures the true nature of these groups and confuses people. Similarly the term "Zionist" is often used interchangeably with "Zionist Jew" or even "Jew", which debases the wisdom, brilliance, charity, humanity and indeed humour of Judaism.

I don't think there's anything wrong with "extremist" or "heretic". You can pick any point in a whole spectrum of mainstream Islamic belief and these people will be outside of that. They have selected parts of the Qur'an and rejected others. They act outside of the spirit of Islam. They lack humility, compassion, forgiveness and tolerance. Muslims should not be afraid to call them what they are and reclaim the good name of Islam.

I understand the inherent reserve of a muslim to declaim someone who also claims the same faith. But the longer this situation is not faced up to, the more ordinary muslims will get caught in the crossfire between renegades and imperialists.

amk

Here for starters. As far as I am aware Chomsky has never repudiated any of the

points made by Hitchens and others. Chomsky is the great dissembler. He supports Faurisson's right to SAY that there were no gas chambers but says that does not mean that he supports Faurisson's VIEWS. This is cant and humbug. Where does it end? Would he support the right of a paedophile to say that children should be sexually abused? The man is a fraud. His vision of the world is clouded by a visceral anti-Americanism.. Hence his support for Pol Pot.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faurisson_affair

amk

I would like to respond to your request about Chomsky but I am afraid Mr Murray appears to have censored my response.

I used to support the existence of Israel, but today, after much deliberations and with heavy heart, I have changed my mind, Israel is not able to exist like other nations, there is no right for it to exist anymore, by its own actions it has extradited itself from the world community. If this makes me a target for Israely aggression so be it. Should there ever be a Government elected in Palestine that supports one country for all its people , that stifles the supremacy of zionists and their violent means and instead supports a multi religous society for all, I shall review my opinions.

Feel free to support my declaration, or not, I could not care less, live death, its all the same to me.

The Israelis bombed a UN school, safe haven to hundreds of dislaced, terrified and hungry Palestinian civilians this morning, killing 3 civilians. Mark Regev, someone else for whom the moniker cunt fits like a glove, was at pains to suggest this was not a targeted attack on R4 World at One. Israel would not attack a UN school; it could be Hamas. They are that wicked, not us.

Shortly after, a second UN school, safe haven to hundreds of dislaced, terrified and hungry Palestinian civilians was bombed by Israel, killing over 40 innocent refugees.

This time an Israeli amsassador insists it was a targeted attack as Hamas had been thought to have used it in the past to fire a missile. No evidence at all.

A UN aid guy in Gaza said conditions there, the horror against civilians was worse than anything he's ever seen in his long career, including Rwanda, Bosnia etc.

How low can our leaders go before they say enough?

eddie

I haven't censored your post

Ok I may have done something wrong but I have tried again and it don't work. Your site has too many glitches and life is short. amk look up Cchomsky and Faurisson on wikipedia – there is plenty of documentary proof of Chomsky's support for the Holocaust denier Faurisson and his support of Pol Pot. Chomsky's visceral anti-Americanism clouds his judgement and makes him unable to distinguish between right and wrong. Supporting Faurisson's right to say that there were no gas chambers is disingenous – would he support the right of a paedophile (on grounds of free speech) to day that children should be abused? I don't think so. He is a fraud.

Eddie, you clearly do not understand the concept of free speech.

Making claims about historical events is materially different from advocating crime. You will find the former is constitutionally protected in the US, the latter not.

Eddie,

You are disingenuous in claiming Chomsky supported Faurisson's claim. Chomsky merely supported the right of Faurisson to exercise his right to free speech even though he disagreed with Faurisson's views.

Furthermore he is not a supporter of Pol Pot. He pointed out that it was the US who supported Pol Pot's regime. See this interview below:
http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/20060121.htm

Chomsky is not anti-american, but merely anti-imperialist. A distinction obviously too difficult for your narrow mind. However, since Chomsky is himself an American, he will admit that it is his own governments policies he is most concerned with holding to account. This is his right and duty as a US citizen.

Neither of you read any of the documents – I suggest you do. Chomsky went way beyond supporting Faurisson's right to free speech. If Chomsky is anti-imperialist why is there never any criticism of China (Tibet) or Iraq under Saddam (Kuwait) etc. It is all one sided. Why no mention of Darfur or Zimbabwe or North Korea. It is all one died. Orwellian – your tag is a fucking disgrace. To use Orwell's name for your twisted views is heinous. You have clearly never read or understood Orwell. Narrow minded my arse.

Neither of you read any of the documents – I suggest you do. An interview with Chomsky is worthless as he has a track record of dissembling and quoting out of context. The documents speak for themselves. Chomsky went way beyond supporting Faurisson's right to free speech and if the Holocaust is not a crime I don't know what is. If Chomsky is anti-imperialist why is there never any criticism of China (Tibet) or Iraq under Saddam (Kuwait) etc. It is all one sided. Why no mention of Darfur or Zimbabwe or North Korea by him or any of your lot. It is all one sided and everything he writes and says follows his own twisted agenda. You debase the language with your bile. Example – Livingstone and Galloway comparing Gaza to the Warsaw Ghetto – this just reduces political discourse to the gutter – there is simply no comparison, yet these claims are made and go unchallenged. Orwellian – your tag is a fucking disgrace. To use Orwell's name for your twisted views is heinous. You have clearly never read or understood Orwell. Narrow minded my arse. Read Politics and the English Language to begin with.

No coincidence, then, that BBCi player's top billing for today is 'The Diary of Ann Frank' – Episode 1 – together with 'The Secret Diary of the Holocaust' ['39-45' not 2008-2009]….

I was going to end that sentence with an exclamation mark but after what we've witnessed this week in Gaza it really comes as no suprise at all.

"It is all one sided."

What China does or does not do has no effect on the rights or wrongs of American policy. It is irrelevant. You commit a red herring fallacy by bringing up China.
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/redherrf.html

as well as an ad hominem fallacy when dismissing all of Chomsky's writings because of this.
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/adhomine.html

Chomsky concentrates on the US because he is American, and can in theory influence it. He discusses Israel because he is Jewish and the US is Israel's sponsor.

I did read you Wikipedia link, thanks. Maybe you should read the Freedom Of Speech article linked therein?

amk

I am talking about the whole world and the sum of good and evil in the whole world. A Martian reading Chomsky would imagine that the USA is the begetter of all evil in the world. It is simply a gross misrepresentation of the truth. Your world view is distorted and weird and I don't know why. There are things happening in this world right now that are hundreds of times worse than the events in Gaza. Why do you not protest about these things? Simply because they do not match your anti-US agenda? As for Orwellian, I can guarantee that he will not find a single reference in Orwell's work to US imperialism becasue I have read every word. Orwell risked his life fighting against totalitarian regimes, whether fascist or communist, and was impartial in his quest for truth. Shame on you for your bias.

Fucking WORD!

Craig rules.

eddie, Chomsky has never claimed to write a complete guide to the world's evils.

You are now making the two wrongs make a right fallacy.
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/twowrong.html

You are making a further ad hominem fallacy by accusing me of bias. You don't even know what I think of anything else!

Your pro-Western bias (born of ingroup bias) is noted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingroup_bias

Have you ever read Orwell's original preface to Animal Farm?
http://home.iprimus.com.au/korob/Orwell.html

"The sinister fact about literary censorship in England is that it is largely voluntary. Unpopular ideas can be silenced, and inconvenient facts kept dark, without the need for any official ban. Anyone who has lived long in a foreign country will know of instances of sensational items of news – things which on their own merits would get the big headlines – being kept right out of the British press, not because the Government intervened but because of a general tacit agreement that 'it wouldn't do' to mention that particular fact. So far as the daily newspapers go, this is easy to understand. The British press is extremely centralized, and most of it is owned by wealthy men who have every motive to be dishonest on certain important topics. But the same kind of veiled censorship also operates in books and periodicals, as well as in plays, films and radio. At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed that all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to say this, that or the other, but it is 'not done' to say it, just as in mid-Victorian times it was 'not done' to mention trousers in the presence of a lady. Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with surprising effectiveness. A genuinely unfashionable opinion is almost never given a fair hearing, either in the popular press or in the highbrow periodicals."

Come on! Chomsky isn't 'anti-American' at all. He's, if anything, anti the American ruling-class and the system of unbridled Capitalism and chronic injustice in perpetuates. Chomsky thinks the US is a great country, compared to most others, with fantastic potential. He's really an outstanding American patriot, but he's highly critical of the corrupt elite that rule and control almost everything.

(Comments are being awkward, this may get posted twice)

eddie, Chomsky has never claimed to write a complete guide to the world's evils.

You are now making the two wrongs make a right fallacy.
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/twowrong.html

You are making a further ad hominem fallacy by accusing me of bias. You don't even know what I think of anything else!

Your pro-Western bias (born of ingroup bias) is noted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingroup_bias

Have you ever read Orwell's original preface to Animal Farm?
http://home.iprimus.com.au/korob/Orwell.html

"The sinister fact about literary censorship in England is that it is largely voluntary. Unpopular ideas can be silenced, and inconvenient facts kept dark, without the need for any official ban. Anyone who has lived long in a foreign country will know of instances of sensational items of news – things which on their own merits would get the big headlines – being kept right out of the British press, not because the Government intervened but because of a general tacit agreement that 'it wouldn't do' to mention that particular fact. So far as the daily newspapers go, this is easy to understand. The British press is extremely centralized, and most of it is owned by wealthy men who have every motive to be dishonest on certain important topics. But the same kind of veiled censorship also operates in books and periodicals, as well as in plays, films and radio. At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed that all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to say this, that or the other, but it is 'not done' to say it, just as in mid-Victorian times it was 'not done' to mention trousers in the presence of a lady. Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with surprising effectiveness. A genuinely unfashionable opinion is almost never given a fair hearing, either in the popular press or in the highbrow periodicals."

eddie

Why are you having a go at someone because of their bias? Surely what you perceive as bias is simply their point of view, isn't it? Also, why the rant? It seems that Chomsky upsets you because he sticks to subjects that he feels qualified to talk about and maybe he lacks the confidence you have in such abundance.

Finally, to say "There are things happening in this world right now that are hundreds of times worse than the events in Gaza" seems a bit odd. How are we to measure them and at what point should we stop talking about Gaza and other minor problems?

Don't stop talking about it. What is happening in Gaza is bad, but there are lots of bad things happening around the world that the far left never discuss or protest about, because it doesn't fit with their twisted agenda. When will we ever see protests about Mugabe and the terror he has unleashed on his people? Or the genocide in Darfur, carried out by Islamists? Or the fact that China is executing more people than the rest of the world put together? Or the slave society that is North Korea? Or the execution of gay people in Iran? One of the only decent people who campaigns on ALL these issues is Peter Tatchell. As for Chomsky, yes I despise him because he uses his stature and intelligence for evil ends. He could be doing more to fight injustice in the world yet he does nothing, unless he can attack his own country. The sow that ate its farrow.

But Tatchell is a professional protester, it's what he does for a living, Chomsky has a proper job. He can't be expected to protest about everything can he? He's a patriotic American living in America, so surely it's only natural that he concentrates on what he sees around him, the faults of his own country? It's not as if they are a whole army of Chomskys dominating the American debate and monopolising the media, Chomsky is out-numbered at least a hundred to one. When was the last time Chomsky was interviewed in depth on mainstream US television or was given space in a national newspaper?

Chomsky is a dissedent intellectual, an enemy of the corrupt elite that is destroying America like the aristocracy in France before the revolution in 1789. This makes him 'dangerous' but it certainly doesn't make him unpatriotic, and only if one defines 'patriotism' as support for the 'aristocracy' no matter what in contrast to the rest of society.

"What is happening in Gaza is bad, but there are lots of bad things happening around the world that the far left never discuss or protest about, because it doesn't fit with their twisted agenda. When will we ever see protests about Mugabe and the terror he has unleashed on his people? Or the genocide in Darfur, carried out by Islamists? Or the fact that China is executing more people than the rest of the world put together? Or the slave society that is North Korea? Or the execution of gay people in Iran?"

Unlike that list the British government helps to arm Israel and gives it diplomatic cover. As I can, in theory, influence the British government this makes support for Israeli policy my moral responsibility. It also means protest may actually achieve something,

No-one claims the British Government is involved in Darfur or North Korea.

Chomsky has explicitly used this argument. He feels partly responsible for the actions of the US government (including sponsoring Israel). He is not responsible for Iran's.

Surely this is obvious?

It is a nonsense to regard a nation as Goodies or Baddies. Only an individual person is a moral actor. Just because you are determined to see Western nations as Goodies doesn't mean those who disagree with you see them as Baddies. You clearly hate Chomsky because he challenges your view of the US as Goodies. Your rationalisations are transparent.

But an innocent Martian wouldn't read Chomsky for numerous reasons, too silly to go into here.

The point is there are no innocent Martians, we are all 'biased' Earthlings, with all that implies.

Why do many leftist intellectuals criticise the West? It's completely untrue that they don't criticise other 'evildoers.'

The point is, we, the West, are supposed to be the good guys, supporters of democracy, freedom, human rights and liberty… So, if we do bad things, if we are hypocrites and liars about who we are and what we do, that is news and interesting. If we do things that remind one of the bad guys, that's news.

We all know who the bad guys are don't we, is it any surprise that they trample on human rights and freedom? The 'surprise' is that we, the people with the white hats, pretty much do the same thing and increasingly so. Compared to us in the peace and freedom loving West, the rest of the world is on its knees. We are so much more powerful and richer and successful than they are.

Look at the real world! The United States is a global empire with over 700 military bases across the globe and it's building more and more of them. What other country has the power to send vast armies to the other side of the world to protect it's interests and topple regimes it doesn't like?

Is there a huge Muslim army that's occupied Holland? Is an Islamist fleet cruising off the coast of Maine. Are they bombing and bombarding San Francisco? It's a lie that we are under attack. It's us that are really doing the attacking, occupying and changing regimes, and we are doing it because we think we own the world and have a right to take what we want and use our military to do it. This has been the characteristic of the West for centuries, agressive expansionism at massive cost to the nations we attacked, invaded and occupied.

Eddie, do you think that, if I were to criticise Iranian democracy, freedom of expression, and religious freedom, that I'd need to append "… but North Korea is worse" (which it is whichever way you want to cut it) to satisfy intellectual honesty?

I'm going to hazard a guess that you don't.

If not, then your thought processes are laid bare. It isn't because of intellectual honesty that you insist that the US and Israel are always compared to others. It's because you need to maintain their status as the Goodies by contrasting them with the Baddies. Iran is already a Baddie, and thus a comparison to another Baddie is irrelevant.

It's also notable that Saudi Arabia, friend of the US, is worse than Iran too, but that it doesn't appear in your list of evil states.

"Why do many leftist intellectuals criticise the West? It's completely untrue that they don't criticise other 'evildoers.'"

Do you have any evidence for that statement? I see very little on the web and in the media. Do you really think that we in the west have no power to stop the atrocities that are happening in China, North Korea or even Saudi Arabia? Of course we do. I hope you guys sleep well at night. Of course I have a bias towards the West – I live in England and I would rather live here than in any of the other countries I have mentioned. It allows me to write this crap to start with. Of course we are bad, no one is good (well perhaps the Swedes) but others are far worse and we CAN do something about it. As for Chomsky I don't believe he has a full time job – he does little or no work on linguistics and he could do more to atack other regimes. His intellectual dishonesty is self-evident and he has his own distorted agenda. He is far better known outside the USA by the way.

Having taken the time to read through the whole comments thread I have several further conclusions to add:

Michael, several of your posts contain interest facts and references but others contain bizarre conspiracy theories and by failing to differentiate between Jews, Israelis and Zionists you are being overtly racist. The Israelis make great use of Israeli Arabs in the IDF and it was such characters who were responsible for the murders of the cameraman James Miller and the peace activist Tom Hurndall. Anyone in any doubt as to the sheer malevolence and deviousness of the IDF should read both their stories on Wikipedia. Films were made about the lives and deaths of both men.

Eddie: You do not understand Noam Chomsky's arguments. OrwellianUK tried to point this out to you but you just ignored him. I won't bother with you further.

Dr Nick Ashley: You are ill-informed or you are a GIYUS bot. I don't care which- you are wrong.

OrwellianUK: I like your considered and informed posts.

Some material for further consideration:

I wrote to my MP, Alison Seabeck, during the height of the Lebanese genocide to demand why prominent Israelis were not the subject of war crimes investigations by the ICC. The response is damning of the Labour government's attitude to the conflict in the Middle East:
http://punkscientist.blogspot.com/2006/10/ridicul…

Reports of depleted uranium traces in Gazan casualties are not at all novel. The Israelis have a history of deploying novel and existing chemical weapons against Palestinians. See the documented linked from another British film maker, James Longley:
http://punkscientist.blogspot.com/2006/09/israel-…

Also see these posts about a new mystery weapon Israelis were deploying in Gaza in 2006 whose shrapnel seemed to cauterise wounds and didn't show up on X-rays.
http://punkscientist.blogspot.com/2006/09/mystery…
http://punkscientist.blogspot.com/2006/09/more-de…

The Israelis are also systematically targeting Emergency workers and ambulances, as related on this heroic blog from a paramedic In Gaza right now
http://ingaza.wordpress.com/2009/01/03/what-the-m…

Did I mention that Craig Murray rules?

amk: The British were involved in Darfur. The legendary Mark Thomas conducted a "sting" operation, the details of which he then related to a House Committee:
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506…

Not half as bad as selling ammunition and Apache helicopter and F16 spares to Israel but still, I had to butt in.

"As for Chomsky I don't believe he has a full time job"

He is eighty years old.

punkscience: thanks for the link. Mark Thomas certainly should be a legend.

MArk Thomas is a pompous prat and that link does not work.

Can everyone help to googlebomb this link by typing the words Gordon Brown in their blog or webpage and linking to this site.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_bomb

Just type "Gordon Brown" and hyperlink it to this page, yes?

You know it makes sense.

Google can detect bombings and may punish them. It's best to vary the text in the link.

Already this site is #1 in Google for searches for "Gordon Brown Murderous" and "Gordon Brown Two Faced" so that's something. I didn't try any more….

Strong work team.

The Israel Defence Force has killed 315 children in the last 13 days. Lets try and stop them hitting 400.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/09/gaza-…

Craig Murray if he had towed the line from cradle to near grave would have become one of the grey suits that advise people like Brown who don't know anything about anything.

The grey suits can smell out threats to the U.K. status quo from 200 years distance like chess champions. Their job is to steer the ship of global greed, while we are sleeping, in a continuous direction of colonial domination, religious buffoonery and social liberalism, which we call Western culture.

The grey suits do not worry about losing one of their number overboard. Many have gone native before them without denting the Empire in the least.

Fortunately for us all, as witnessed by the Bible and the Qur'an there is a terrible destiny prepared for those who serve the Taghut or Deceivers. God gives them a little sustenance for a little time, a billion dollar lifestyle and a grey suit, then they are wrapped up and sent to the eternal fire of Hell.

God bless such as Craig Murray for challenging the Deceivers, the monarchs and freemasons, lobbies and lobbied, diplomats and playboys/girls of this world.

May all who stand against corruption be given the permission of Allah to enter into Islam and paradise for refusing to sell their souls for such meagre rewards in this world.

Unfortunately in order to obtain this permission it is necessary to cast off the grey suit as well. Our prophets peace be upon them all, were slaves of Allah, all of them, not counter-boffins criticising the status quo from the safe glow of its reflected light.

We will not change the world by blogging. It is a hard and unpopular road to enter the kingdom of heaven, as I hope and pray the oppressed Muslims of the world will do by their perseverance in faith in spite of their sufferings at the hands of the grey suits of this world.

I am completely in agreement with not sparing anyone, particularly when they are leaders. But then I would be more careful with the language. That should not be the way to get the readers' attention. To sum up, pull up anyone you want but keep the language decent.