I believe Alan Duncan had quite a trenchant dig at her only last week. Are you echoing his sentiments about Vadera or ….why is it that she is hideously unpleasant?

Craig,

Good luck with the house move. This is one of the most stressful things we have to go through.

It’s facinating to think how the government would react if the Unions, or some group of workers had brought the country to the brink of collapse as the banks have. We’d probably have martial law and mass arrests of the leadership and talk about ‘holding the country to ransome!’

Yet aren’t the banks really on strike at the present time, refusing to lend, with dire consequences for the economy. And what makes this even more grotesque is that the money they are so unwilling to lend is public money from the taxpayers/citzens!

Considering how few banker there are, aren’t we talking about a handful of very powerful men? It seems extraordinary that they demand so much money from the government, to save themselves; and at the same time openly defy the wishes of the government that they begin to lend again, to stop the entire economy grinding to a halt.

How, in a democracy is this possible? That so few people should have so much power over everyone elses lives and futures. And the government seems unwilling to confront the banks. It’s almost like the financial ‘aristocracy’ gives orders to the government and can get away with murder. Is there something about the character of our democracy that we are not being told?

I believe we are heading for slump similar to the Great Depression and the government seems unwilling or unable to take the resolute action that needs to be taken to avert such a calamity.

Capitalism credo is competition, a crude survival of the fittest, the best. This is the way capitalism is supposed to progress. Yet we are effectively rewarding failure on a massive scale and letting failure drag us all down. Instead we should let the banks fail, right off the debts, see where the debts really are and then begin the long, hard, process of rebuilding the economy from the ground up. Instead we are digging ourselves deeper and deeper into the debt hole. It truly beggars belief. But, I would contend, it does illustrate with extraordinary clarity, where exactly power in our society resides.

“I believe we are heading for slump similar to the Great Depression”

writerman

Baroness Vedera says we are not…

“Business minister Baroness Vedera talked to ITV of spotting ‘the first green shoots of recovery’”…

http://tinyurl.com/bet4y9

She wouldn’t lie to us would she?.

Even the Mail on Sunday is digging for dirt about the Sleaze Lords. Lord Truscott and his Soviet past this week:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1133117/Revealed-The-secret-Soviet-past-sleaze-peer-Truscott.html

Writerman

Capitalism isn’t about competition, or survival of the fittest, it’s about control and profit.

When was the last time you heard a businessman say “we have too large a market share, we’re going to encourage cometititors” or “we are making to much profit, someone should come in and compete with us.”

ps to Craig

Does this mean the 12 people who hate you won’t know where you live anymore?…

John K,

I was being ironic. There is a capitalist ‘surface ideology’ the kind of absurd crap Thatcher and her acolytes spoon-fed the electorate; then there’s how things really function, what I call the ‘deep ideology.’

Here, the state is the protector and enabler of capitalism – its ‘tool’ so to speak. ‘Competition’ is arguably far too costly and wasteful a process to be allowed to function ‘freely’ in the mythical market-place, now more than ever. Which is why I believe we are moving towards a new, or extreme form of capitalism, the post-consumer society form – authoritarian capitalism. Here the methods and attitudes of the ‘deep ideology’ increasingly break through into the ‘surface ideology.’

“Which is why I believe we are moving towards a new, or extreme form of capitalism, the post-consumer society form – authoritarian capitalism”

writerman

You are spot on…

http://tinyurl.com/3cf6mf

How will we deal with a UK economy which is probably, objectively, 25% bigger than it should be? That is, if one subtracts the over-inflated financial sector, the property bubble and the revenues from North Sea oil and gas.

Essentially, the last thirty odd years have been an exercise in how not to run a modern economy. A mixture of sellng the family silver and betting the lot on a gigantic roulette wheel, gambling with the future of the country.

In the nineteenth century there was the battle over the Corn Laws, industry won over the landed interests. During recent decades we’ve seen a simliar conflict, between the City and our manufacturing base, industry. Industry lost out. The City took over the country because one could conjure far higher rates of profit, as long as it lasted, than one could be investing in the ‘old economy.’ We are all going to pay the price for this ‘victory.’

“Nickel and Dimed from The American Ruling Class!”…

http://tinyurl.com/cd5ecc

Writerman:

“It’s almost like the financial aristocracy gives orders to the government”

Nearly there. Just delete “it’s almost like”.

“Is there something about the character of our democracy that we are not being told?”

Yes there is. It is that elected leaders are given a toy steering wheel. They are not allowed to drive the car.

Craig. Got the book this morning. It’s great. If I may:

“Nasser and Gloria screamed, threw their arms in the air, and ran together into the kitchen and out the back door of the house. This was not altogether helpful.”

LOL. How very British.

Being overseas, I’ve lost recognition of the latest slime to ooze through the NeoLabour reich. Watch and you’ll see ‘e-money’ being the ‘new’ proposal. a New World Currency for the oft said New World Order – don’t forget to sumit your DNA Iris and thumbprint for digitization to have the ‘opportunity’ to ‘enjoy’ this ‘solution’

‘Fraid Usury is the root cause and no-one seems to give a monkeys.

Brilliant idea, a tax strike, Craig.

Maybe an international effort.

Listening to ’5-Live’ this morning; their somewhat forced joviality is wearing a bit thin – all things considered, they covered the latest government proposals to purchase ‘toxic assets from the banks to the tune of an extra £52 billion!

At no point, did the cheerful chappies in the studio or there rather posh sounding chum from the city, called in to give ‘expert’ advice, mention how one would put a vulue on these ‘assets.’

If the banks can’t sell them in the ‘marketplace’, which they can’t, do they have any real value at all?! So the UK government is buying, or rather giving the banks, another £50 billion for worthless ‘assets.’ But there was no discussion of any of this. The elaborate charade continues unquestioned, and this passes for financial journalism on the BBC! How do they get away with it?

Other names for authoritarian capitalism are corporatism or fascism. Britain in the 2000′s is starting to smell increasingly like Weimar Germany in the 1920s and early ’30s.

The snag about letting the improvident banks collapse is that honest small depositors would lose all their money too. What then?

antcant,

This is a problem, what to do about honest, small depositors? One could simply guarantee the deposits. I mean we’re are apparently awash with money, so let’s guarantee all the deposits in British banks. That should be easily done. What to do about the shareholders is more tricky, are they capitalists or are they not?

I think we should nationalize all the banks right now, take them over; lock, stock and barrel. Look at the books and find out where the losses really are and how big they are, and clean out the stables.

Maybe we should just have one state bank, or perhaps two. There would be no ‘fat-cat’ saleries or bonuses, and probably no shareholders payouts. They gambled and losts. That is supposed to be the essence of capitalism, isn’t it?

At the moment, we all effectively own the banks already, because they are worthless as they are technically insolvent and the loans or bailouts are already larger than what the banks are worth. If this was a private company stepping in to save the banks with such colosal loans, that company would now own the banks, why dont’ we? Why are we bailing them out, covering their debts, yet we have no control? This is ridiculous. Why should the taxpayer/citzen pick up the tab for the losses but not the profits, in there ever are any?!

Also, I just thought that authoritarian captitalism was easier to understand than ‘difficult’ concepts like fascism and corporatism, which I think sound like something from the past, one thinks one men in boots and uniforms marching. Whilst I always thought ‘fascism’ would return in a smart business suit, lead by a charming psychopath, with a winning smile, a lot of confidence and a guitar.

Fiddling the Books While Rome Burns?!

The deposits of individual depositors are already guaranteed – up to £50,000 per account (unlimited with Northern Rock). That’s fine so long as the Government doesn’t go bankrupt.

One solution might be to return to the Gold Standard. That prevents the creation of non-existent “funny money” (which lies near the heart of the current crisis) and ensures that the value of loans, fiscal insurance policies etc can’t exceed the amount of “real” money in existence.

Regarding small depositors. They must recognise the RISK of investing money, read the signs and withdraw their investments if necessary.

There shouldn’t be a need to ‘guarantee deposits’ if people took the responsibility and understood how finance works.

And the argument that people don’t have the time or inclination to take care of financial matters is the wrong attitude too.

“How do they get away with it?”

Hmmm…Because people keep voting for them?.

George Dutton

Or because people don’t vote against them ?

I think we should have free trade in politicians, see if we can export ours to China and import some better ones instead.

algernon:

Regarding small depositors.

These are DEPOSITORS not INVESTORS. There is an important difference. They are depositing their OWN MONEY, not making an investment. The question of investment risk is not applicable.

Reason:

You are wrong. The question of risk is applicable. If the deposit account is giving interest on your deposit this counts as a reward for your RISK in investing that money.

See here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investment

“Let me issue and control a nation’s money and I care not who writes the laws.”

Mayer Amschel Rothschild, 1790

Since the current crisis appears to have originated in the USA, it’s perhaps useful to know how the USA’s modern banking system came about, particularly the creation of the Federal Reserve in 1913. It’s not exactly widely known that the Fed is essentially a private organisation, that it is not required to publish accounts (so no-one knows for sure who its stockholders are), or the jaw-dropping political shenanigans that took place to foist a Central Bank on a country whose citizens did not want one.

G. Edward Griffin’s article at http://www.bigeye.com/griffin.htm is a very well-researched, accurate and readable account of the whole shocking story.

“Since the current crisis appears to have originated in the USA”

MJ

To understand what is happening you have to go back to who was responsible for it all in the first place…The EVIL ones…and the two words that caused it all…”Deregulation”…”Globalisation”…The insanity off free market’ economics, or should that read GREED of the few at the expense of the many.

“Milton Friedman, free-market economist who inspired Reagan and Thatcher, dies aged 94″…

http://tinyurl.com/srzs3

The influence that Thatcher had over Reagan as regards economic thinking (or lack off) was key to todays events.

“Ian Gilmour served as defence secretary during Edward Heath’s administration, before becoming Lord Privy Seal in Margaret Thatcher’s first government”

“In September 1981 he was sacked by Mrs Thatcher and remained a prominent critic of what he regarded as extreme Thatcherite policies”

“He responded to his sacking by Mrs Thatcher by issuing a statement declaring that she was steering “full speed ahead for the rocks”…

http://tinyurl.com/6cmprl

He saw it coming.

algernon:

You are talking rubbish.

There is an important difference between DEPOSITORS not INVESTORS.

This is even confirmed in your link:

“Saving within personal finance refers to money put aside, normally on a regular basis. This distinction is important, as investment risk can cause a capital loss when an investment is realized, unlike saving(s) where the more limited risk is cash devaluing due to inflation.”

algernon: stop spreading nonsense.

Reason:

I don’t see it as nonsense to take responsibility of one’s own wealth, instead of relying on a system of taxpayer backed savings. This is my argument.

Where do you stand on such insurance of deposits?

“That’s fine so long as the Government doesn’t go bankrupt.”

It already is.

@ George Dutton

Yes Ian Gilmour was a good man. Not my party but of the old patrician Tory school and very principled. He was my MP when I lived near Amersham. As you say, he saw it coming. He said that he wished he had resigned rather than being sacked in 1981. He saw that the country was heading for the rocks. Unlike the old bag Maggie (Gordo’s new friend) he did think that there was such a thing as ‘society’.

It certainly would be if we followed algernon’s advice and “prudently” withdrew our deposits. That would bring down the Government and also bring down the financial system. Hurrah! It would also be cutting our noses to spite our faces because we’d only receive a tiny fraction of our money.

The notion of withdrawing our deposits is an interesting one. If it were in the form of cheque or electronic transfer, where would we direct the money to go? If it were in cash…well, there just ain’t enough cash to go round.

mary

Gilmour believed in being benevolent towards the serfs.

Thatcher believes in being menevolent towards the serfs.

“They really respected each other’s views, and if that is not influence, I don’t know what is”

“President Reagan said: “We met before she became prime minister and I became president, and the moment we met, we discovered that we shared quite similar views of government and freedom. Margaret ended our first meeting by telling me that we must stand together, and that is exactly what we have done ever since”…

http://tinyurl.com/2266eb

I’m down with MJ. I frankly can’t see the point of discussing economics without acknowledging the private ownership of the reserve banks of the world. It’s not just the US Fed you know.

My own PM, one KRudd, declared in his pre-election party political tv spots that he vowed to uphold the independence of the Reserve Bank. What a strange thing to say to voters. As if a single one of them thought ‘Oh, if he’s going to do that, I’ll vote for him.’ Truth be known he wasn’t talking to the voters. He was talking to the people who own the RBA. It was his public declaration of fealty.

Otherwise consider the fundamental madness of the single most important entity in any country not being accountable to the voters or anyone at all. Politicians plead with them to lower rates etc.

That we view the reserve banks of the world as some kind of force of nature is madness. They’re no such thing. They’re all privately owned. The US Fed is a corporation registered in Bermuda. It’s no more ‘Federal’ that Fedex.

Google ‘creature from Jekyll island’ or otherwise go watch ‘the money masters’ on google video (it’s long but it’s worth it). And once you become convinced that the US Fed is privately owned (and you will be, I guarantee it. The history is bulletproof), then wonder at the likelihood of other smaller nations with smaller economies not being similarly controlled. Roll phrases like ‘The heads of the world’s reserve banks met today to coordinate policy…’ and wonder at what’s going on.

And sure enough, there’s my own PM, KRudd, declaring the need for a new world order. Under whom? Under the people who own the reserve banks of the world? Sure, who else?

nobody

The Australian Reserve Bank is owned by the Australian government. By its ‘independence’, Rudd was referring to independence from control by the government of the day.

http://tinyurl.com/b3w3zy

Cheers

I think that democracy, equality and citizenship are linked, at least in theory, alas in practice… The absolute ‘elite’ in relation to annual incomes, in the United States, according to the Internal Revenue Service, earned in excess of 105 billion dollars in 2006! Sounds a lot, and it is. What isn’t a lot is the number of people who shared in this tremendous bounty – 400 astro-rich individuals! The diamond-tipped, absolute top of the social pyramid. The magazine Forbes estimated that this same group had assets of 1.57 trillion dollars. Which if I’m not mistaken is more than the entire continent of Africa!

3 February 2009

“Obama prepares another trillion-dollar bank bailout”…

http://tinyurl.com/au84gw

They will be back for more…much more.

Will Milipede be discussing this with Clinton when they meet today? Probably not. Change? What change.

http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=02&year=2009&base_name=obama_and_rendition

The group blog of The American Prospect

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BUSH AND OBAMA ON RENDITION.

The LA Times reports that Obama will be preserving rendition as an anti-terrorism tool:

Under executive orders issued by Obama recently, the CIA still has authority to carry out what are known as renditions, secret abductions and transfers of prisoners to countries that cooperate with the United States.

Current and former U.S. intelligence officials said that the rendition program might be poised to play an expanded role going forward because it was the main remaining mechanism — aside from Predator missile strikes — for taking suspected terrorists off the street./….cont

What’s even more depressing:

“Under limited circumstances, there is a legitimate place” for renditions, said Tom Malinowski, the Washington advocacy director for Human Rights Watch.

I think the electoral success of Obama was probably the single, greatest, advertising/public relations triumph in history.

It was a brilliant, sophisticated and well-funded strategy to re-brand a product, the United States, which was failing in the market-place. It’s textbook stuff, cutting-edge marketing, and very, very, well done.

Whether this ‘face-lift’ has any real substance or not, is another question, and time will tell I suppose.

I stand corrected. If the RBA says it’s not privately owned, then it must not be privately owned. I mean, if they were privately owned, there’s no way the owners would misrepresent themselves, is there? Stands to reason.

And just because the US Fed does, doesn’t mean anyone else would. Not us. No way.

Besides with characters of unimpeachable moral stature like Frank Lowy on the RBA board, how could it be anything other than completely kosher. For those unfamiliar, Mr Lowy was partners with Larry Silverstein in the WTC real estate deal of the century. A few million down for a building full of asbestos and three months later, Bingo! A 5,000,000,000 dollar payout. That’s billions with a ‘B’. Boy, did he luck out!

And don’t pay any attention to his being tripped up in that recent Lichtenstein banking scam. How dare the Federal Police and the Tax Office investigate an RBA board member for fraud and tax evasion?! Bloody rudeness. It’ll be quite right if KRudd PM and the insanely unsackable Bill Keelty of the Feds put the whole thing in deep freeze.

Are you a gambling man Keifer? What odds will you give me on the likelihood of that? (Keifer! Mate! You’re not that fellow who explains the rightness of torturing Muslims in that completely brilliant ’24′ are you? Perhaps in Mufti. Shtum!)

Oops, changing the subject. Sorry.

Back to it – provided you’re not a shill for the Reserve Bank and have already seen ‘The Money Masters’ (and didn’t care for its crystal clear explanation of the reserve bank scam), do take the time to watch it. As God is my witness, you will never view things the same again.

PS Not forgetting that below the idea of central banks and monetary policy is the rotten-to-the-core idea that interest (as in usury, as in that which used to be considered a sin by Christians) makes any sense at all.

Honestly, ask yourself, Why do we have interest? Why do we pay money to the people who already have it all? What were they going to do with it otherwise? Eat it? Just roll it around in your head, and wonder how things might work without interest. Would it work? Or more specifically, wouldn’t it work completely brilliantly? Why does the fact that one has lots of money already mean that one should deserve more of it?

And don’t confuse repaying principal with interest. One is right and makes sense and the other isn’t and doesn’t.

And why does a people, by way of their government, have to borrow public monies at interest? Why doesn’t the government just print it themselves? If there’s not enough, they print more. And if there’s two much they just take it out of circulation. Between that and using interest, only one of them resembles loan-sharking.

If you look into the history of governments and control of the money supply, you’ll find over and over again that anyone who’s taken control of their own money supply (ie. from people like the good old “give me control of the money supply” Rothschild) has had a very stable economy.

I don’t know if anyone knows this but JFK did precisely this just before he was assassinated. Google ‘JFK executive order 11110′. I guarantee you will not find it dull. Sure enough there are sites discussing it that are written by people like our Keifer here. You may believe them if you wish.

Like I said, there’s no way anyone would misrepresent such a thing. Except for Mayer Amschel Rothschild. Such an obvious bullshit artist. “Give me control of the money supply…” Honestly, what was he on about it?

“I don’t know if anyone knows this but JFK did precisely this just before he was assassinated”

Yup.

The BIGGEST mistake JFK made…He was under the false impression that he was in charge off the USA…woe betide any president of the USA that thinks that.

Writerman “It was a brilliant, sophisticated and well-funded strategy to re-brand a product”

Yet another example of the weird conspiracy theories that infest this board. This comment shows huge ignorance of the US constitution and the process of electing a President. Who, Writerman, led this strategy? Have you actually read any of Obama’s books? Do you understand the process he went through to get elected? Do you know where he got his funding? Are you suggesting that corporate America took up this person and pushed him to the top for its own nefarious purposes? Presumably the Jews were somehow involved? Are you suggesting that my friends in San Francisco, who supported his campaign with funds, and millions like them, were unwitting participants in this conspiracy? Come off it.

Shenanigans with the NuLabour election result at Glenrothes – marked up electoral registers (i.e. those who voted) missing, see Postman: http://preview.tinyurl.com/amwwt7

& the BBC:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7867022.stm

This was the election result, remember, that bounced back Gordy Brown, so we were told.

Nobody:

“A few million down for a building full of asbestos and three months later, Bingo!”

Yes. And isn’t it a good job he changed the insurance policy to include acts of terrorism?

Sorry Eddie, I know you don’t like conspiracy theories, but sometimes they make a bit more sense than coincidence theories.

While we’re on the subject, Lincoln won the American Civil War without taking loans from banks. He just printed his own money (greenbacks) when required, gambling, correctly, that people would just trust it and accept it.

He was about to introduce this as the fiscal system for the new United States but unfortunately…

It’s not a case of “not liking them” – they are simply not true. All of those listed above (Oswald was working for who exactly?) are on a par with the Book of Genesis. Perhaps you would point me to a single conspiracy theory that has ever been proven? You can’t because they don’t exist. The very word theory is a misnomer – it implies something that may possibly be true. “A conspiracy fantasy held simultaneously in the minds of minds of credulous individuals worldwide” would be a better description. People who believe this garbage are like Scientologists or creatonists. As Mark Twain said, “Faith is believing what you know ain’t so”.

“Perhaps you would point me to a single conspiracy theory that has ever been proven?”

How about two: firstly that it was Nero who destroyed Rome in AD 64 after all and not those peskie Christians; secondly that it was Hitler who ordered the burning of the Reichstag in 1933 and not those damned Jewish Communists.

Sometimes its just a case of needing time to pass, so we can assess the facts coldly and dispassionately, uninfluenced by the propaganda and brainwashing prevalent at the time, that “fantasy held simultaneously in the minds of minds of credulous individuals worldwide”.

Nice to see you back by the way Eddie.

Yeah, great to be back. Nero I will pass on, but I am assuming you are suggesting that Hitler ordered the Reichstag fire? You are wrong. There is no serious evidence to that effect. Van der Lubbe was involved in starting the fire, the only debate is whether he acted alone or as part of a wider plot. For Hitler it was obviously a heaven-sent opportunity to crack down on political opponents. Any others you care to mention?

“I am assuming you are suggesting that Hitler ordered the Reichstag fire? You are wrong”

I concede that the matter is still open to debate, but a good many serious historians eg Bullock take the view that Hitler had to have initiated it.

Any others you care to mention?

Since you ask, I could mention the sinking of USS Liberty in 1957. Blow if it didn’t turn out to be the US’s good friend Israel wot done it, and not Nasser, like those mischievous Israelis tried to make out!

Another wrong one. The Israelis owned up to that within 2 hours of doing it.

So that’s two dealt with. What about some of the bigger ones? Kennedy, Jewish conspiracies to rule the world, 9/11, 7/7, Osama funded by the CIA, Diana killed by MI5 etc. Do you believe those ones? As anyone who has ever worked in an office will know, once more than two people know about something it’s odds on that the truth will out. So to suggest that several hundred people can be in on a conspiracy and yet keep it quiet for decades simply defies rational belief. As I say, it’s akin to religious faith.

The thing is, what is a conspiracy theory? I’m only really interested in the truth of the matter, and acknowledge that the truth is not always as it first appears. People in power do have plans, and can be crafty. I’m a cynic I’m afraid, and don’t believe anything these days until it’s been officially denied.

The problem with using derogatory terms like conspiracy theory is that it tends to be sprayed around like it’s some kind of magic spell that renders untrue any idea it is aimed at.

One could argue that the official account of 9/11 has some of the hallmarks of a conspiracy theory, but the point is that that of itself neither makes it true nor false.

The Israelis only owned up because they were caught out. The US was about to nuke Egypt until one of the sailors reported that he spotted Israeli livery on one of the planes. If he hadn’t, no-one would have known. The fact that they were rumbled within two hours is neither here nor there.

“I don’t believe anything these days until it’s been officially denied.” That’s a strange construction – does God therefore exist because no one has “offically” denied his existence? By “officially denied”, I take it you mean governements? So anything a government says is by its very nature untrue? God exists, says Hamas. No he doesn’t, says Dawkins. So where does that leave us? I prefer to rely on scientific rationalism than crackpot theories. It sounds like you want to believe what you want to believe and the facts are either a side issue or they are manipualted to fit your truth. As for 9/11, well the “offical” account is the result of millions of hours of sifting through evidence, whereas the “unoffical” account is the work of a few cranks down the pub. I think I know which I would prefer to believe.

My remark was a rather clunking attempt at laconic wit. Don’t take it too seriously.

“As for 9/11, well the “offical” account is the result of millions of hours of sifting through evidence”.

No it isn’t. They came up with full story within 48 hours of the event.

No they didn’t – they came up with an intitial story based on certain self-evident truths – such as millions of witnesses seeing two planes flying into the towers, cockpit recordings, mobile phone calls from passengers saying the planes had been hijacked, video and other diaries of the hijackers etc etc. This was then confirmed by the full investigation and by the man in the cave himself. Given the overwhelming scale of the evidence witnessed by millions on the day itself the full enquiry was hardly going to conclude that the pilots had been trained by Mossad, was it?

“such as millions of witnesses seeing two planes flying into the towers”

Of itself proves nothing as to who did it.

“cockpit recordings”

Never released.

“mobile phone calls from passengers”

Shame the technology enabling mobile phone calls from planes wasn’t introduced until 2004.

“This was then confirmed by the full investigation”

What full investigation was that?

“…and by the man in the cave himself”

A known CIA asset.

Actually, the ‘hard’ evidence by which the alleged hijackers were identified and the official account formulated was, lest we forget:

1) A passport found in the rubble of WTC (remarkable it survived really, giving the flight data recorders didn’t)

2) A holdall belonging to Attah, which didn’t make it onto AA Flight 11, containing pilots’ uniforms, flying manuals and a copy of the Koran

3) A holdall found in an abandoned hire car at Logan airport, containing wills, a confessional letter written in a weird broken Arabic plus the obligatory flying manuals and a copy of the Koran.

I think actually there was also another passport found at the crash site of Flight 93 (again no fight data recorder alas) which all rather neatly tied things up.

For a professed believer in scientific rationalism, Eddie comes across as more than somewhat credulous.

Some may think that, I couldn’t possibly comment

What is arguably the biggest conspiracy theory of them all?

Answer. That there are no conspiracies!

On the other hand people who deny certain conspiracies are perfectly willing to accept the ones they believe in, like the one about a Muslim conspiracy to attacks and destroy our way of life, and there’s a worldwide network controlled by a guy living in a cave who pulls all the strings.

Then there’s the great anti-Israel conspiracy, which then becomes the great anti-Semetic conspiracy.

Conspiracy is apparently in the eye of the beholder, like beauty.

What characterises American politics, on one level, is that it’s a conspiracy and always has been. The Founders were a group of conspirators, traitors to the Crown, who conspired to wrench the American colonies, using force, away from the British Empire.

What’s interesting is that the people who started the revolt against Britain were probably a distinct minority with little actual support in the North American colonies at the time. Even when open warfare broke out between the Crown and the rebels, it’s highly debatable that they had a majority of the population behind them in their attempt to break away from Britain.

I wonder if I will be accused of anti-American bias for these ideas.

Politics and conspiracy go together like a horse and carriage.

The American historian Theodore Draper has described this in depth in his book “A Struggle for Power” [1996] – a gripping account of the events leading up to the American Revolution.

It was indeed carried through by a minority who didn’t want to pay the taxes which the British considered necessary for the defence of the colonies against the French and the Indians.

And the Revolution would not have succeeded but for the ineptitude of the British commanders – notably Lord Howe. Kenneth Roberts’ novel “Oliver Wiswell” is a moving evocation of the emotional agony endured by Loyalists during the Revolution.

I had an American friend who once said she thought I would write a book called “I’m Glad They Had a Revolution”. But in fact I’m not, as I think that if they had evolved to independence as members of the British Commonwealth they would have been a more constructive influence in today’s world.

4 February 2009

“British winter death rate predicted to rise”

“A higher death rate amongst older people and an increase in cold related illnesses is expected, after the recent extended period of cold weather in Britain.

An increased death rate associated with the winter months is a widespread international phenomenon, but Britain has one of the worst records in Europe. A World Health Organisation (WHO) report published by its European Regional Office last year stated, “The magnitude of the excess in the United Kingdom, at over 40,000 deaths every winter is the highest in the European Union”…

http://tinyurl.com/dxtyqv

Fiddling While Rome freezes.

MJ

What planet are you on?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_Commission

Cell phones – at least 30 calls were made from the planes. All credible experts agree that such calls were possible at the altitudes involved. The black box from UA93 has been recovered and relatives have listened to the tanscript. A feature film was made based on this and the phone calls (it’s a very good film). The remains of 13 of the 19 hijackers have been identified from DNA testing. Bin Laden – you think he is a CIA stooge or is that joke? I’d be interested to know who did the deed if not Islamists? Jews? The CIA? Little green men? Do you also believe in the no plane theory or the controlled demolition theory? Perhaps you believe in santa claus as well? As John McEnroe used to say, You Cannot Be Serious.

“The remains of 13 of the 19 hijackers have been identified from DNA testing.”

Now this DOES surprise me. Source, please.

“This was then confirmed by the full investigation and by the man in the cave himself.”

The “man in the cave”, as you called him, in the last authentic recorded statement from him issued on Sep 12 2001 denied having anything to do with Sep 11.

And your full investigation was remarkably light in content and on subpoenaed testimonies.

“All credible experts agree that such calls were possible at the altitudes involved”

Incorrect. That’s why the 911 Commission Report quietly dropped the cell-phone story in all but 2 instances.

“The black box from UA93 has been recovered and relatives have listened to the tanscript”

Incorrect again. It was the cabin voice recorder they recovered, not the flight data recorder. That’s what the relatives were able to listen to. You read transcripts, not listen to them by the way.

“A feature film was made based on this”

Golly. Must be true then.

“Bin Laden – you think he is a CIA stooge or is that joke?”

Hardly a joke. Are you unaware of his long association with the CIA?

“The remains of 13 of the 19 hijackers have been identified from DNA testing”

Nonsense.

“I’d be interested to know who did the deed if not Islamists?”

In the absence of a proper inquiry I think it ia not possible for anyone to come to any certain conclusion as to the identity of the perpetrators.

It is you who are lacking seriousness here.

Oh Eddie, you said you were never coming back and I took you at your word. More fool I. From here on in I promise never to do that again.

As for your dismissal of conspiracy theories, um, I can’t figure out if you’re for ‘em or against ‘em. You’re for them if they’re told to us by the US government and the media it seems. And agin ‘em if they ain’t. Is that right?

And all that evidence! The evidence was so good and so unimpeachable that Colin Powell stood in front of the UN and swore on a bible (Well the OT anyway, and as everyone knows that’s the best bit). Oh wait, that wasn’t 911, that was the WMD’s in Iraq. Anyway, a trifling matter with barely a million dead and four million displaced. And besides, wars are necessary things and what’s a few fibs when it’s all in a good cause? So they lied about some WMD’s. They certainly wouldn’t have lied about 911. The fact that the war that we had to have could never have taken place without it, is to be dismissed by a wave of the hand. Like so! Did you see my hand? It never left my sleeve!

And all those neocons who signed their name to the PNAC declaration demanding that the West destroy Israel’s neighbours (google ‘oded yinon strategy for israel) and their prophetic daydreaming about a ‘New Pearl Harbour’ was nothing more than a spooky coincidence. I’m sure each of them slapped their foreheads and said to each other, ‘Wow, who knew? We called for a New Pearl Harbour and we got one. We are the luckiest girls in the world! And now America can smash Israel’s enemies. Er sorry, America’s enemies! Huzzah Huzzah.’

As for who did 911 you should get in touch with the FBI. Their official wanted poster for Bin Laden does not include 911. Apparently this was due to a lack of ‘evidence’ or something. Give them a call and tell them that there is too evidence, so there.

And you should also get in touch with those seven of the nineteen hijackers who stuck their hands up and said that, ‘Yes that’s my name and photo on the poster but as you can see I didn’t die on 911′. Idiots! How could they be sure? Didn’t they watch that movie?! It was a Feature Film and ‘very good one’ apparently. It was proof enough for you Eddie, so it should easily be proof enough for them. And if they want to bleat some question about whose face was that they just cut while shaving that morning, tell them you have EVIDENCE dammit. Be firm. Don’t take no for an answer. Evidence is evidence. And whether it’s cross examined or mere assertion, it’s still EVIDENCE.

Seems like 9-11 has replaced Hitler as the inevitable feature of any internet based discussion.

Yes John, but only because there’s so much evidence.

Jahn.

The ripples of 911 are in themselves tsunami’s. Or haven’t you noticed???

Hmm… it seems we’re all dancing to Eddie’s ‘I’m-not-a-zionist’ polka again. Even me, ha ha. Well, a toe-tapping beat is hard to resist.

Has anyone ever noticed a certain consistency to the Eddies of the world? I’ve met lots of Eddies and I seem to keep seeing the same things over and over. At a base level they seem to combine the twin strands of: the rightness of the War On Terror and the Government’s fascistic response to it; and the rightness of all things Israeli. On most everything else they seem to have very little opinion. They will profess to being vaguely Labour or vaguely Conservative, depending on who’s in power and whether or not that particular party is supporting the previous two memes.

Invariably there are two weapons in an Eddie’s arsenal. They are the ever reliable ‘anti-Semite’ tag and the also ever reliable ‘conspiracy theory’ tag. Both of them are meant to trump all other arguments. I wasn’t paying particular attention, but has anyone used the phrase ‘tinfoil hat’ yet? Or perhaps that’s an American wrinkle.

But the main thing is that discussions of banking must be avoided at all cost. And the media is no different. There is not a lick of doubt that the US Fed is privately owned. The history, once you search it out, is cast iron. People love quotes. How about this one -

“I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is now controlled by its system of credit. We are no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.”

?”Woodrow Wilson, 1919 (Referring to the Federal Reserve and the transition to a debt-based economy)

But Wilson ain’t nothing. Try putting ‘Andrew Jackson banking quotes’ into google. Wild, huh? How come we’ve never heard of this before? Why has this subject been disappeared? Isn’t the media – I don’t know – corporately owned or something? The reason the media doesn’t touch certain subjects (like the absence of WMD’s) is because their corporate masters collectively, somehow, wanted a war, and that suits them, or something. That’s how it works isn’t it? Some vague thing like that? Corporations want war, the media is corporate, something something.

But curiously the media bags out corporations all the time. The war got bagged out. Cheney got bagged out. The idiot son got bagged out. Everyone gets bagged out. Only one topic is utterly verboten and that’s the nature of reserve banking. In the media house of many voices you turn a corner and find youself in a room so quiet you could hear a pin drop. That conversation can never be had, not because it’s bullshit – if it was bullshit they’d be all over it – but because it can’t be touched with a 305cm pole (which is, er… 17.4 cubits in the old measure). And it can’t be touched because it’s cast iron. Were people to have their curiosity whetted to even the slightest degree, there’s only one conclusion they’re going to arrive at. Don’t believe me (I wear a sarong, a sure guarantee of not being taken seriously), just go look it up on google – ‘privately owned us fed’. Or watch ‘The Money Masters’. It’s free, nothing in it for me (except some poetry)(ahem).

Anyway Eddie, what were you saying mate? Conspiracy theory something or other. Lots of evidence, I recall. Carry on. And don’t mind the topic mate. Since you’ve only a handful of weapons in your arsenal, best to alter the topic to suit you, rather than the other way around. And to paraphrase Basil Fawlty – Mention the war! Mention 911! Mention any other goddamn thing!

Oh look! Is that a low flying wildebeest?! And so early in the year!

Phone calls. According to the 9/11 Commission Report, 13 passengers from Flight 93 made a total of over 30 calls to both family and emergency personnel (twenty-two confirmed air phone calls, two confirmed cell phone and eight not specified in the report). The FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force testified that all but two calls from Flight 93 were made on air phones. There were reportedly three phone calls from Flight 11, five from Flight 175, and three calls from Flight 77 which American Airlines later confirmed did not have airphones fitted, two calls from these flights were recorded, placed by flight attendants Madeleine Sweeney and Betty Ong on Flight 11.

According to the 9/11 Commission Report, both black boxes from Flight 77 and both black boxes from Flight 93 were recovered. On April 18, 2002, the FBI allowed the families of victims from Flight 93 to listen to the voice recordings.

Bin Laden has admitted responsibility for 9/11, but of course if he is a CIA stooge…?

These big events always attract conspiracy nuts. There are none so blind as will not see.

On another topic, I hope you lot are following the results of the Iraqi election. A resounding victory for secular parties against religious zealots.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hwK_CSpBxsNuVUEaDuOwmSSCiqGwD964CM800

and against people like this – the personification of evil, a woman who was part of an organisation that arranged for women to be raped in order that they could then be turned into suicide bombers. But you lot probably don’t have the balls to condemn her, you probably think she is a victim, just like the women she sent to die.

When Ruth called him out as a paid shill, he wrote he would quit posting here.

When i asked under what new alias he would come back, he thought it easiest to come back under the old one.

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2009/01/new_labours_bri.html

His assignment is transparent, his income depends on the distracting disinfo he spreads here.

He has his supporting crew amidst commenters here, but his training and dedication is not enough to cover the rotting body of lies he has to defend.

“Eddie” is a Zionist shill and a notorious liar.

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2009/01/boring_boring_b.html

Thanks, nobody, for reminding us about the taboo subject.

What do you people think about a tax strike as proposed by Craig ?

Researcher. What’s your line of research? Mental impairment?

Sorry Researcher, no time for that. I’m too busy shaking my fist at Eddie’s ‘personification of evil’. She was on the telly so I’m perfectly certain that everything we’re told about her is true. Is there no end to these wicked Muslims? Certainly not on the telly and nor from Eddie neither. Quite right that they should be shot whilst waving white flags and trying to surrender. Doubtless some trick.

Um, protest against tax eh? Yeah, why not? I don’t know about the UK (nor here actually) but the IRS in the States is another privately owned corporation registered in the Bahamas. Did you know income tax wasn’t introduced in the US until the year after the Fed was founded? They didn’t need it prior to that since tax on business profits was sufficient to pay for all that fiscal policy stuff like roads and bridges etc. But after the Fed was founded and all US money then had to be borrowed from the Fed (who merely printed it for the costs of the paper and ink), interest had to be paid. Lots of it. And that’s what income tax is for! Every penny of it is paid to the Fed. Wild stuff huh? Who knew?

Is it the same in the UK and here in Oz? Well when the government releases a stimulus package is all the money borrowed or not? From whom? Who has all that money? Did they amass it all because they’re good at saving? Or did they just print it for the cost of the paper and ink? We could ask Eddie but he’s too busy jabbering about Muslims.

Muslims funnily enough don’t have reserve banks. Imagine owning a reserve bank and being able to print your own money. Imagine being able to say, “Let me issue and control a nation’s money and I care not who writes the laws.” Imagine that power. That’s the power to scoff at a nation’s laws. If you had that power and there were people out there who weren’t under your thumb, who offered an interest-free alternative model to your own money-as-debt usury, would it serve your interests to show them what happens to smart guys? Blow their shit up kind of thing?

What if we were to roll around in our heads the idea that our campaign against Muslims is actually a sanctity-of-banking campaign? Does that make sense? Or rather, does it make as much sense as all the other idiotic and ever-changing reasons why we smashed Iraq, are right now smashing Afghanistand and Pakistan, and are (any day now) about to smash Iran? Works for me.

Did anyone google ‘oded yinon strategy for israel’? Was there a single Muslim country to escape destruction in there? Indonesia perhaps. Mind you, Indonesia owes more money to the IMF than the whole country is worth, so no biggie.

Anyway, Eddie insists we not talk about this. Which is predictable of him of course, but sort of comforting in a perverse fashion. ‘Ooh, Eddie, you are awful but we like you.’ Well I like you since you’re so perversely predictable. Or is it predictably perverse? Either will do I expect.

Everybody shake your fist at Eddie’s straw man! Er, woman! Throw another faggot on the fire. Yay! Burn Muslims Burn!

Crikey. Keep taking the tablets. Just had a look at your site. Anyone who thinks that old fraudster Pilger is god get my vote for the loony bin.

Nobody is on particularly good form today and he has done us a service by wrenching the discussion back to the original topic of this thread.

He is quite right to point out the basic difference between Western and Muslim banking models. Muslim banks are largely unaffected by the current crisis and this is because of – cover your ears Eddie – Shari’ah law. It prohibits the acquisition wealth via gambling (or alcohol, tobacco, pornography or stocks in armament companies) and forbids the buying and selling of debt as well as usury. Additionally Shari’ah banking laws forbid investing in any company with debts exceeding 30%. I guess Western bankers would just find this too dull.

Nobody is correct also to raise the subject of IMF debt. Very few nations are without debt, but if you get a list of those who are in this enviable position, compare it with the list of those nations comprising Bush’s ‘Axis of Evil’: what an amazing coincidence!

Yes but many muslim countries are also some of the most corrupt and poverty stricken on earth, with disparities in wealth between the richest and the poorest that put the West to shame. Perhaps there is a link? Arab sheikhs buying up Premiership football clubs when their people are dying is disgraceful.

Did anyone see that just now on Sky News? Some ‘prayer breakfast’ in Washington. The guy introduced Tony Blair as “one of the great moral leaders of the world” (or on the planet, whatever his precise phrase was.) I nearly threw up.

Always pays to check on a statement

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0908770.html

inequality top 10 as of 2002

Sierra Leone

Central African Republic

Swaziland

Brazil

Nicaragua

South Africa

Paraguay

Colombia

Chile

Honduras

So the number one slot is held by an Islamic country, but not an arabic one, number two is mostly Christian, number 3 is mostly Zionist. South American countries feature heavily in the top ten.

As for poor countries, you’ll see Muslim, Christian and Buddhist competing for the top slot in misery.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0908763.html

always check

Eddie says, “Bin Laden has admitted responsibility for 9/11, but of course if he is a CIA stooge…?”

Have a look at that tape again and compare it to others of bin Laden. It bears little or no resemblance to the man. And Eddie, calling people “conspiracy theorists” is about the same as throwing “anti-Semitic” at them. It’s an attempt to short-cut your way to writing off everything they say. It doesn’t work. Sorry mate!

“he wrote he would quit posting here”

Yep, I distinctly remember “this is my last post”. Poor Eddie just can’t stay away.

I have this (personal) mental picture of Eddie: an only child, taught to respect and obey “authority”, a bachelor, lives alone and doesn’t have many friends. Even those he does have get bored with him pretty often. He’s obsessive about keeping his fingernails clean. He used to collect colourful foreign stamps until he found the internet, and now he finds “company” there by being provocative, and dragging threads off topic when he can, forcing people to use up energy rebutting him. He likes his worldview simple and uncomplicated. And he, and he alone, has a handle on good and evil.

Ta-rah! That’s my potted ‘Eddie’.

Touch of Islamophobia too, Eddie?

Eddie,

sorry I’m late – Proven ‘conspiracy theory’ – The Gulf of Tonkin Incident. Complete lie, completely admitted (after years and years of total denial), 58,000 dead Americans, 3,000,000 dead Asians. They’ve got form, my friend. And if recent conflicts have not been engineered then they will be historical oddities.

By the way, do you, by any chance, remember that crying lttle girl that told us all about those evil Iraqis throwing babies out of incubators prior to Gulf War 1? She was wheeled out when US public support for the war was fading really fast. Turned out to be the Kuwaiti ambassadors daughter with some helpful coaching from PR firm Hill and Knowlton and the Bush 1 regime. All lies of course, but once again it had the desired effect of stirring US blood and getting a war back on track.

Eddie,

It’s good to have you back. I don’t have to agree with you but you’re as entitled to your opinion as anyone else.

To quote Mr Chomsky: “If you don’t believe in freedom of speech for those you despise, you don’t believe in it at all.”

Not that I despise Eddie or anyone else, but you surely get the point?

I agree with Chris. I like Eddie being around. He disagrees with, and indulges in ad hominem attacks on, everybody else. We’d all agree with each other and be too polite if Eddie wasn’t here.

“I like Eddie being around”

Me too. Otherwise who would we cynics beat around the head? We’d be chewing the furniture instead.

I agree with Eddie. The Arab leaders are an apalling bunch, I would not shed a tear if most of them dissolved in their own grease tomorrow.

but they’re not crap because they are Arabs or Muslims – that’s perhaps were me and Eddie part company.

Most leaders have shown these disgusting traits, and as the attempt to hoodwink the world to fall further under the cloak of Zionism, these (s)elected leaders get worse and worse.

The only source of hope I see w.r.t. ‘leaders’ are the Bolivarian ones. Why arn’t we allowed a Chavez, Castro or a Morales as a leader? It’s not fair. I want one too!

Yes, Chavez is my favourite. Done well to last so long. Axis of Evil of course ie no debt Western elite.

Nice try John, but I said poverty stricken AND corrupt, not either/or so I doubt that you can find a list to refute me.

Dreoilin/MJ – what’s that about ad-hominem attacks? Touch of hypocrisy there, a bit of sterotyping perhaps? Not islamophobic but islamismphobic. There’s a big difference. Just as I am phobic about any religious wanker who wants to blow me up and who likes death better than life ( and I can furnish you with plenty of quotes on that score. Your profile is about as far from the truth as possible. You don’t even know if I am male or female.

The gulf of Tonkin was not a conspiracy it was a cock up and has been offically accepted as such. No response then to any of my 9/11 points? No response to the overwhelming evidence that conspiracy theorists are nutters? See this link. I don’t know if you are familiar with the work of Jon Ronson but he would love you guys (but then he is Jewish I hear you exclaim). Do you know David Shayler – a bit like your friend Craig, a failed government maverick who has now gone completely loopy. Thinks he is Jesus Christ.

Chris – I suggest you read the tag line at the top of Harry’s Place – it’s a quote from Orwell and a lot better than the Chomsky effort. But please don’t get me started on Chomsky. The man is a liar and a charlatan.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/3483477/The-30-greatest-conspiracy-theories-part-1.html

Oh Christ. I’ve heard it all now. Chavez or Castro? What are you, masochist bootlickers who like to be sat upon? Chavez is a nascent dictator who has encouraged attacks on Jews and is a total sociopath. Castro is a dictator who has denied his people democracy for the past 50 years and created a mass diaspora of Cubans. Go to the backstreets of Havana – the place is crumbling apart. So he gets sick and who takes over? His brother. What is Cuba? A hereditary dictatorship, just like PRK? Do you think that you would be allowed to engage in your beloved “freedom of speech” in those countries? If Cuba is so great why won’t Castro hold an election? It’s like all you morons who go round with Che t-shirts. The man was a nasty mass murderer, who enjoyed executing people. “Please don’t kill me I am worth more to you alive than dead”. Bang.

Eddie,

I note you have no answer for the Gulf War 1 ‘conspiracy theory’ and the Gulf of Tonkin is something you choose to pass off as a ‘cock up’? A cock up that led directly to a resolution authorising war? Not so, actually. I think you’ll find it was quite deliberate.

Harry’s Place…. even the thought of it makes me feel dirty.

“MJ – what’s that about ad-hominem attacks?”

It means using personal insults and epithets instead of engaging with the point. When for instance you call people idiots, or morons, or mentally impaired, or illiterate etc etc.

“Touch of hypocrisy there”

Cite one instance where I have done anything remotely similar.

“No response then to any of my 9/11 points?”

See above

“Chavez is a nascent dictator who has encouraged attacks on Jews”

LOL. You really can’t smell your own dodo can you?

And of course you will post your proof of that claim on this blog, won’t you.

Eddie,

“Anyone who thinks that old fraudster Pilger is god get my vote for the loony bin.”

Now you’ve gone too far!!!! If you can point to a single fraud perpetrated by arguably the greatest living journalist then maybe Harry’s Place is your true spiritual home. The fact that you don’t happen to agree with the man doesn’t mean he isn’t right.

Sometimes the truth hurts….

MJ

I know what an ad hominem attack is and I think you will find that most of them have been directed at me. Apologies to you, though, the hypocrisy barb – it was aimed at your colleague, Dreoilin, not you.

Chavez – he was defeated on a cosntitutional referendum to end term limits for the president. (Putin anyone?) But he is trying agan. He has closed down TV stations and described his opponents as fascists. That’s why I used the word nascent. Not yet a dictator, but heading in that direction. He has repeatedly attacked Israel in the most violent terms, and called upon Venezuala’s Jewish community to do likewise (if you think that is ok then the moral equivalent would be a requirement that the UK muslim community should be forced to condem Hamas/ 9/11 etc)- he has also forged strong links with Iran.

Chris. Oooerr. I’m scared now. To call Pilger a journalist is like calling Castro a democrat. Pilger is a polemicist, not a journalist; his work is tendentious, selective and full of errors. He is good at what he does, but he is quite definitely NOT a journalist. In 2003 he said “the current American elite is the Third Reich of our times” – this is somewhat similar to a remark by Chomsky about de-Nazification. If you believe such nonsense then it merely confrims my view that you are, politically speaking, gnats on the back of a dog – i.e. mildly irritating, but ultimately meaningless. Pilger is depressive, miserablist, life-denying and tendentious. No one takes him seriously any more. Even the New Statesman has sacked him. His last piece for the NS on Obama was a disgrace.

Eddie,

my professional training is in journalism and, trust me, Pilger is a journalist of the very, very highest order. You say “polemicist” because you disagree with the message he delivers. That is your right.

But you should not attempt to smear the name of a man who understands that journalism stands for more than… “And that’s the weather, now over to some talentless dolly bird to read out a handful of Government press releases…” Because that is what we are now reduced to. that is a tragedy and Pilger is a journalist. The fact that he has become ever more marginalised is because the truth is no longer favourable to the owners of the media. And believe me, (I’ve lived it) there is zero freedom of the press in this – and many other countries.

“Madoff/SEC: Bush Holdovers Stonewall Financial Services Committee Investigation”

“Harry Markopolos testified before the House Financial subcommittee that his warnings as early as 2000 and on four subsequent occasions to the Securities and Exchange Commission about Bernie Madoff’”…

http://tinyurl.com/cl9kqs

Well said Chris. I think Pilger’s recent article ‘Holocaust Denied’ was the finest assessment of the Gaza massacre to be found on a single page.

Eddie:

“the current American elite is the Third Reich of our times”

Nothing too contentious there I would have thought.

“Eden Springs UK Ltd is owned, managed and controlled by Eden Springs Ltd/Mayanot Eden, an Israeli company which carries out grave breaches of international law. Eden Springs directly violates the human rights of the people of the occupied Syrian Golan (see Appendix A) through theft of their natural resources, including land and water. The Eden Springs company directly profits from the illegal exploitation of water from the Golan.

The central issue is not the source of the water supplied by Eden Springs UK Ltd – there has never been any question of water from the Golan Heights being brought to the UK. The central issue concerns the violations of international law, including human rights law, by the parent company, Eden Springs Ltd/Mayanot Eden.

We call on Scottish civil society to cease to reward with a lucrative contract an open violator of international human rights law, Eden Springs.”…

http://tinyurl.com/bmk2uv

“Out of all the devastation I have seen so far, there is one story in particular that I think the world needs to hear. I met a mother who was at home with her ten children when Israeli soldiers entered the house. The soldiers told her she had to choose five of her children to “give as a gift to Israel.” As she screamed in horror they repeated the demand and told her she could choose or they would choose for her. Then these soldiers murdered five of her children in front of her. The concept of “Jewish morality” is truly dead. We can be fascists, terrorists, and Nazis just like everybody else.”…

http://tinyurl.com/bftojz

Chrus “You say “polemicist” because you disagree with the message he delivers”. Chris, that proves that you know absolutely nothing about journalism. It is not the job of journalsits to deliver a “message” – it is their job to report objectively and with regard to the truth and to present the bigger picture. Pilger does none of these things. A Martian reading Pilger would have no notion that countries such as China, DPK, Sudan, Zimbabwe exist, despite their greater horrors, because he never mentions them. He turns a blind eye in pursuit of his twisted agenda, which is basically that the USA is the source of all evil in the world. He is an evil man. And I mean that in the full sense of the word.

So tell me exactly whre there is freedom of the press. How, for example would you rate the UK against a few of your pet countries? Do you care to share your thoughts?

MJ – my point exactly, you condemn yourself out of your own mouth. Unless you were being hyperbolic.

I see none of you have had the temerity to challenge me on Cuba. Running scared?

George – how is Tommy getting on? Still a fan of the perjuror? You quote a comment that is anti-semitic. Example: any thoughts on the woman in Iraq who I mentioned earlier? She was part of a group that arranged for women to be raped and then sent them off as suicide bombers to reclaim their honour. Do things like that not bother you? If I then say to you that this proves that all muslims are evil, you would, quite rightly, condemn me. But that is exactly what you are doing on the quote you use. An Israeli soldier (unattributed) kills someone, therefore all Jews are immoral. You posted the quote, presumably with approval, othewise why post it? Sorry mate, and I don’t like to abuse anyone, but you are a moron. Blinkers at noon, eh? You see what you want to see and disregard the rest.

“Things one sees from The Hague”

“By Gideon Levy”

“The public, moral and judicial test will be applied to the three Israeli statesmen who sent the Israel Defense Forces to war against a helpless population, one that did not even have a place to take refuge, in maybe the only war in history against a strip of land enclosed by a fence. Ehud Olmert, Ehud Barak and Tzipi Livni will stand at the forefront of the guilty. Two of them are candidates for prime minister, the third is a candidate for criminal indictment.”…

http://tinyurl.com/88gkaa

The Troll unchained is a frightening beast, but only in its own estimation. In their own eyes they are formidable, misunderstood and surrounded by lesser beings who need to be put straight. In reality Trolls are rather sad and pathetic creatures.

The crave, no, they demand attention above all things. I’m held in contempt, therefore I exist. Whatever they talk about, it always seems to come back to them, their ego, pride and conceit in the end. Me, me, me.

Of course the Troll displays a superior intellect, erudition, education and command of language. Almost everyone else is a lesser being in need of help and enlightenment, and the Troll is always ready to help out.

Not only do Trolls have a cartoon-like vision of themselves and their abilities, they also, and this is perhaps a more serious defect, they project this one-dimensional world-view onto the world around them, a world which they wish to control and simplify, rather like the mini-totalitarians they really are.

Through the Trolls eyes the world and reality becomes a grotesque cartoon for simpeltons. The world is divided into them and us, good and evil, right and wrong, black and white.

Moral clarity is their watchword, their guiding light and principle.

Even their anger seems trite and banal. The sound of a child stamping its feet in a tantrum. Intemperence and hyperbole is another striking characteristic of the intellectual challenged Troll. The tiny, misunderstood, Troll, that when it looks into its distorted mirror thinks it sees a brave, bold, righteous, knight; a knight that ranges across land looking for fierce dragons to slay and great deeds to accomplish.

Unfortunately for the Troll it’s all in their minds, a mere fantasy in a mirror full of lies.

eddie

The post link above is NOT posted without the following. Thats why I posted it. As it says…

“We ask that you do not publish or post this story on the Internet. If you have already done so, please post this statement, as well.”

Thats why I posted the original and not a copy without the following,so people can read it in the link.

“Barbara Lubin and all of us at the Middle East Children’s Alliance believe that we should have confirmed the story about the Gaza woman who was told by an Israeli soldier to choose which five of her ten children should die, and then witnessed their murder. We are doing everything we can now to verify the story, but have been unable to do so. We ask that you do not publish or post this story on the Internet. If you have already done so, please post this statement, as well.”

“Israeli human rights group B’Tselem claimed that a Palestinian woman in Gaza was killed by IDF fire Tuesday despite waving a white flag. The IDF has denied the report.”…

http://tinyurl.com/dae5ax

writerman, why do many welcome the troll here ?

Craig, allowing ad-hominem attacks here has the effect of driving away friendly people not interested in strife and abuse. The distracting effect of an abusive shill using your board full-time for incessantly repeated propaganda drives away people with little time to waste. The quality of the visitors and comments will suffer.

Is Spam free speech ? Spam is commercial, shilling for secret services too. Spam is easy to detect. Ad-hominem-spam too. Please, help make this board spam-free.

eddie

I thought you were NOT coming back on this site,you said…”This is my last post”…on a previous thread. Another one of your LIES eddie,one of many.

George – my apologies to you. Truth is I couldn’t be arsed to look at yet another of your endless, tiresome links. Life is too short. I said it was my last post meaning on that thread, which it was. Brillig.

Writerman – that sounds like a pretty good description of you and your friends here. Simpletons. That rant is also an ad hominem attack on me. Hypocrisy yet again. I have tried to raise issues related to the topics and I note that none of you have been able to argue back in any meaningful way but have instead resorted to abuse. Reason is your world view, such as it is, simply doesn’t stand up to inspection and you don’t have the arguments to deal with any criticism. Anyway I get the message and can see I am wasting my time trying to convert the deaf and the blind. I am off to San Francisco for a couple of weeks to plot world domination with my Jewish friends (he, he) – I shall leave you all to your mutual masturbation in this sad corner of the internet. It’s been fun winding you all up. Not.

“I am off to San Francisco for a couple of weeks”

eddie

I hope Yellowstone doesn’t blow up as you fly over…that would pain us all here no end…

http://tinyurl.com/8gjwk9

Eddie. I think it’s a little unfair to say that “none of you have been able to argue back in any meaningful way”. Many of us have taken the trouble to do just that. It’s just that you do tend to make an awful lot of points at the same time, and they’re not always wholly coherent, so some may fall down the back of the in-tray. Also, you’re not the only one here with points to make.

Secondly, although I personally don’t mind particularly that you tend to start each post with a snide and derogatory put-down, it can get a little tiresome after a while. As a debating technique it’s self-defeating, because it suggests you’re not entirely confident in the strength of your own arguments.

I rather enjoy locking horns with you because you are obviously well-informed and concerned about current affairs. One of the great things about the internet is that it is a club that has no membership restrictions, but you do have to realise that this is not Harry’s Place and thankfully never will be.

Eddie,

Your overweening pride doesn’t have any objective basis. Why do you assume that in my little piece about the character of the Troll, that I was referring to you personally? How is it that you seem to recognise yourself in my description of an entire ‘class’ of people who inhabit the web?

I find it amusing and telling that you even choose to reply to a comment about Trolls in general. Without realising it you provide proof of the accuracy of my observations about the Troll.

I have to admit that I find Trolls rather unpleasant and tiresome. It must be their arrogance, conceit and pride, bordering on self-love. There’s the bizarre trait they have of wishing somehow to inflict pain on others for no apparent reason, and then provoke others to inflict pain on them in return. It’s a bit disgusting for my taste.

And they all seem to have been to the same bad schools and have learned to use language in the same way, and the less said about their use of logic and arguments the better. The poor things get so angry and petulent when one doesn’t accept their obvious, at least in their minds, intellectual superiority.

I wouldn’t mind them so much if their arguments were solid and a challenge, only there not, they are just irritating in the extreme, which I suppose is what gives them pleasure in life, poor things. It’s really rather sad. To be so utterly convinced that one understands so much, and in reality one understands so little.

Eddie’s definition, which he offers, like so much else, without nuance or even much real thought, is so crude and embarrasingly indadequate. How can a person be so foolish to publically open themselves up to ridicule like this? But then arrogance and contempt for the abilities of others probably go hand in hand.

Eddie, without blinking or drawing a breath, rubbishes Pilger and Chomsky like brushing a crumb off a table. Foolish, foolish, old men, to think they are held in high regard, when they are so obviously fools, compared to me, me, me! I who have done so much for the word and its intellectual advancement, yet I am unknown, but not for long. These titans have feet of clay! I will expose them as charlatans and frauds for all the world to see, me, me, me!

This attitude would be grostesque in a pantomime with clowns preening and acting like the fool, but in the real world, it’s closer to the symptoms of the borderline psychopath, a bit like the Blair syndrome, but without his charm.

The above was meant to begin with a comment about the simplistic and inaccurate definition of journalism given by Eddie. Journalism can be many things. There is no, one, correct definition of journalism. There are many styles and contexts. Pilger is just one of them. The journalist who dares to speak truth to power, as such he is a example to others.

Another characteristic of the Troll is that they don’t mind dishing it out to others, but if somebody gives them back their own medicine they often become terribly precious and wine about how unfair people are to them and stomp off in a funk. I’m taking my ball away, so there, you won’t play by my rules, you rotters!

Somewhat surprised to have waded through all 119 comments here, but the exchange was, in fact, thoroughly entertaining! A brief round-up of my own conclusions on the topics covered:

1) History is a series of conspiracies: to overthrow governments, to assassinate leaders, to centralise power by stealth.

2) The assault on the Middle East is simply globalisation in a hurry – and by any lies necessary. Countries interested in preserving their sovereignty (right to self-determination) will be bulldozed.

3) The private banking families (Warburg, Rockefeller, Mellon etc) are the real power and have been for almost a century. In crude terms, the power structure is:

1) private banks (set the overall agenda)

2) unelected foundations and think-tanks (formulate long-term policy)

3) government (convince the public of the need to make and sign legislation for the above)

4) civil servants (enforce the above)

5) everyone else (live with the consequences of the above).

A good rule of thumb: the smaller the number of the above category, the greater the contempt/indifference for the ‘common’ man.

4) 9/11 & 7/7: joint operations by the deep-level intelligence agencies of several countries for the advancement of the globalist agenda.

5) the current economic ‘crisis’ is simply war by other means. It is, as I’m sure almost all here realise, meant to usher in a new era of globalised financial control.

And as William S. Burroughs once said:

“A paranoid is simply someone in full possession of the facts”.

Eddie, you really are a schmuck!

You didn’t provide any evidence Chavez encouraged attacks against the Jews. Not that I, for one minute, ever thought you weren’t doing anything other than lying upon reading your turrets like drivel.

And as for Pilgers ‘sacking…

Are you referring to this? “The magazine is refusing to recognise the National Union of Journalists, has made a number of long-time staffers redundant, and has apparently ditched star columnist John Pilger” {my emphasis} – Dave Osler, one of The New Statesman’s regular contributors on 20th Jan 2009.

So you know better than Osler? ?” rriiiight, but wait!, what’s this…?

“The politics of bollocks” 05 February 2009 – John Pilger in… The New Statesman. http://www.newstatesman.com/writers/john_pilger.

Another lie Eddie? Really. Give me the address of a trusted friend, and I’ll send you a tenner for you to buy some tissues, so you can buy some tissues to try and wipe off the copious amounts of dodo that covers you; even if it so too late.

Actually eddie was correct up to a certain point. See this link. The Guardian did announce that Mr Pilger had been got rid of but then retracted. The circulation is tiny so no one reads him in any case.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/jan/19/new-statesman-job-cuts

Eddie was right up to the point where he was wrong. Yeah.

Not that would matter to someone of Eddie perspective.

The NSm circulation may be small (I dont know either way) but Pilger is hailed as one of the people who is responsible for the % readership it actually holds.

These days, “dead tree media” as the inspirational Bridget Dunne sometimes calls it, face HUGE revenue problems, mostly due to the WWweb. Even widely read internet sites face a revenue problem. Look at InformationClearingHouse.

Something like over 1m readers a month, yet only about 140 people respond to the monthly appeals. Given that Tom constantly has to point out his costs have not been met, it seems of those 140 contributors, the average donation is quite small – I would speculate.

Pilger I’m sure does have large readership. On ICH, his articles quickly attract comments. +’ve or -’ve still indicate readership.

Pilger is also regarded as a REAL journalist. His documentaries on Cambodia were astounding. I was in a state of shock for weeks (yes, real physical shock) when I watched his year zero documentary and that was only about a year ago – long after the worst of the famine had occurred. I still feel the old shock when I think about it.

Pilgers latin and South American reportage, his Vietnam, E.Timor, Indonesian, Chagosians, victims of Globalisation, Iraq, Palestine, Afghanistan and even the on the horrid propaganda the west pumped out in the cold war are a ceaseless demonstration of the pinnicle of that ancient art we used to call journalism.

Pilger also warned of the snake in the grass mass murdering filthy sadist child killer Tony f’ing Blair. But like Obama peoples desperate need for something else, ANYTHING else (must be better than what we had before) made those words of warning vanish like mist on a sunny day.

Within the journalism ‘profession’ (yeah, very apt word if I must say so myself) Pilger is a mountain amongst some very scared little obedient mice.

Eddie being a tick on the back of one of those mice can’t seem to perceive that mountain however.

But so what.

Let Eddie continue to see what Eddie wants to.

The NS circulation is about 18,000 – tiny really. Pilger has a great appeal to student types because he sees the world in black and white but I don’t think many people beyond such circles view him seriously these days. His work tends to be sloppy and poorly researched and it opens him up to often valid criticism from other commentators.

“His work tends to be sloppy and poorly researched” – I’m VERY familiar with Pilger’s work.

I don’t recognise ANY of that description in his work. Can you give me some examples of his “sloppy and poor research”??

Thanks.

Protean,

Why do people who happen to disagree with pure fact just because it suits them always say that an author is “sloppy and poorly researched”. His facts are considerably better researched than anything that passes for 99.9% of journalism these days.

It really is very lazy to accuse someone of black and white thinking just because you find their facts uncomfortable. It’s like that damned awful BBC banging on about impartiality. The truth is not defined in such ridiculous ways. Sometimes the truth demands that one side of a story is exposed as stupid or immoral or just plain evil simply because that is the truth. Facts are the sacred thing, not impartiality which may be exercised over time and space but not within each individual piece of reporting. If the facts demand a conclusion then that should be pursued. Mitigation can be offered where appropriate, but that is not always the case.

Dear lwtc247,

I’m not a stickler for these things. I just notice them in the work of others, unfortuantely, not in my own. It’s a irritating blind spot.

You might want to use it again, so, it’s called tourette’s syndrome. A ‘turret’ is something on castle or a tank.

When I was a boy, John Pilger used to roam the world writing about things he saw for the millions of people who read the Daily Mirror in the UK.

It must have been a young journalist’s dream come true. His brief was simple. The editor thought his readers needed to know something about what was happening out there. So off he went.

Pilger’s career trajectory is instructive and illustrates how the press in Britain has degenerated over the years. Once he had a readership of millions, now he’s almost hanging on by his teeth, a marginalised figure, with a column in the New Statesman, even though his status is almost legendary and his style hasn’t changed. What’s changed is the media landscape around him and the country. The room for honest dissent has been squeezed tighter and tighter.

His last flourish, at least in the mainstream media in the UK, was once again in the Daily Mirror, where he stripped the New Labour lies about the necessity of invading Iraq to the bone. The form of honesty and open criticism of the Anglo-American war policy is unacceptable, and soon Pilger was gone and the Daily Mirror and its editor Peers Morgan were neutered by the security services.

I doubt Pilger will ever be allowed back into mainstream press again. He’s just too honest and he’s clearly ‘unreliable.’

What’s amusing is that we are always being told that we live in a democracy, with individual freedom, yet, if one looks at the press it’s striking how uniform the nationals are on most subjects of importance, especially foreign policy. For example, the invasion of Iraq can be called a ‘mistake’ or a ‘blunder’ but hardly ever a ‘crime.’ This would be going too far.

Israel’s illegal colonies are only referred to as ‘settlements.’ The phrase ‘occupied territories’ is nowhere to be found. And the most important one, the United States is a benign power, that makes mistakes, but is really trying to do good in the world.

This last bit is an article of faith, and the consequences of being perceived as ‘off-message’ on this one are serious, one is deemed ‘radioactive.’ Justin Webb, the BBC’s North America editor, even has/had a radio series called ‘America – Empire of Freedom.’ Think about that for a second. An Empire, of Freedom! I almost thought it was meant to be ironic. It isn’t. What it shows is that Webb has internalised the attitudes and ideology of American Imperial dogma and self-delusion to the degree where he opens himself up to ridicule. But that doesn’t matter to a true, useful, and above all loyal servant of the Empire.

But aren’t these kinf of people, who inhabit all sections of our society, personified by Blair, really ‘traitors’ to the UK? In the sense that they put the interests of a foreign power, the United States, first, because they know where their bread is buttered. Loyalty is handsomely rewarded, dissent is punished in comparison.

I don’t find Pilger’s fact uncomfortable because they are’nt really facts. The problem with Pilger is that he has a certain world view that is old-fashioned, so the reason he is now a marginalised figure is that he is a bit of a dinosaur, living on past glories. What he did, he did well, a bit like Michael Moore, but as soon as you start to analyse his style you realise it is not at all objective and that it is full of errors. You can find plenty of critiques of his work from serious commentators all over the web so I don’t think I need to list them for you. He has an agenda and that is his problem, so in that sense he is not a seeker after “truth” (whatever that is) as you suggest, but a seeker after “facts” that fit his agenda. He seems to think the cold war is still in progress.

Sorry, I dropped out of the conversation there for a minute. A pod of jellyfish had washed up on the beach and I had to run around ladling water on them and otherwise encourage to swim back etc. Eventually I remembered it was whales we do this for and not jellyfish. I did feel a bit silly.

Writerman, how nicely put that was. You nailed it to a tee. And without mixing any metaphors too. On the subject of Pilger I’ve got my fingers crossed that he continues with his documentaries and sells them himself via his website. I bought some. They’re brilliant.

Otherwise Eddie, what were you doing referring to a thing I wrote about disinfo merchants and Venezuela? Why not send people here? You’ll groove on this one since it’s me agreeing with the rightness of our various governments declaring war on foreigners. Check it out Eddie. It’ll be music to your ears.

PS Fingers crossed html links work in these comments.

Nope, didn’t work. Let’s try this -

http://churchofnobody.blogspot.com/2009/01/i-cease-opposition-government-was-right.html

February 7, 2009

“Kissinger Sent to Russia to Cut New World Order Deal”

“It is yet another glaring example there is no difference between Bush, Obama, or anybody else anointed by the global elite to serve as presidential window dressing ?” the Daily Telegraph reports this morning that former Reichsminister of State and Rockefeller minion Henry Kissinger was dispatched by the Obama administration to talk with Russian president Dmitry Medvedev about reducing stockpiles of nuclear warheads.”

“The CFR, Trilateral Commission, and the Bilderbergers have one objective ?” to create world government under the guise of a New World Order”…

http://tinyurl.com/c4rsqj

“The CFR, Trilateral Commission, and the Bilderbergers have one objective ?” to create world government under the guise of a New World Order”…

The increasing boldness with which the likes of Kissinger and our own Mr Brown make their calls for a New World Order are a reflection of how close they feel they are to their goal. As things stand, I’d call it confidence rather than hubris, as the majority of people’s thought processes are almost entirely dormant when it comes to the meaning of this phrase.

Both wars and economic crises are meant to change society irreversibly – a fact plainly demonstrated by history. There will be no return to ‘the way things were’.

“We use our grant-making power so as to alter life in the United States that it can be comfortably merged with the Soviet Union.”

http://www.supremelaw.org/authors/dodd/interview.htm

Needless to say, the above does not apply only to the US.

Corporations will become largely indistinguishable from government as per the Mussolini model. The vast bulk of the population will exist solely to serve this apparatus as per the Communist model. Those who have labeled the NWO ‘global feudalism’ are indeed very close to the mark.

The way to stop this is to fill in the missing pieces between the end goal and the present and to then tell people what is going to happen next. Those who scoffed two years ago as I told them their economy was going to be deliberately destroyed are rather more receptive now.

The other thing to keep in mind at all times is that none of this can be accomplished without our help. Every time we choose ‘convenience’ over informed consideration of consequences we drive another nail into the coffin of self-determination and freedom. This ‘oyster card’ mentality has to be reversed.

“This ‘oyster card’ mentality has to be reversed.”

Me thinks it’s too late.Time will tell.

Great quality of exchange of information and thoughts, the moment the shills quiet down, thank you all.

George Dutton, you want to be right ? Or you know something we don’t ?

There may be some glimmers of hope here and there. Russia’s swift dispatch of Georgia (read CIA/Israel) in August was probably a major and unexpected setback for the NWO.

The imminent closure of the US base in Kyrgyzstan is another major setback.

The financial meltdown may have gone a bit too far – even elite Fed banks like Morgan Chase are wobbling.

Growing social unrest and protests worldwide may pressage a growing awareness and politicisation.

The Codex Alimentarius, perhaps the most immediate threat, seems to be stalling.

Chin up guys, there’s still a lot to play for.

“Russia’s swift dispatch of Georgia (read CIA/Israel) in August was probably a major and unexpected setback for the NWO.”

95 percent of visible politics is theatre, there to bring the public mind around to accepting the unacceptable.

The Georgia fiasco was indeed an example of that remaining 5 percent. It wasn’t in the script. The closer we get to the final chapter, the more in-fighting we are going to see between the players vying to be on top when the Great Plan concludes.

As to the economic ‘crisis’ – controlling a slow-motion train wreck of your own creation is never an easy task. A few losses for the big win is perfectly acceptable.

Governments have long planned for the predictable riots that will ensue. Provided control over the police and military can be maintained there is little in this to give them pause.

“Evil has every advantage but one – imagination” W. H. Auden

We should take this piece of wisdom very seriously – and apply it to our actions. Power relies on the same old tricks working time after time. And they do – until someone throws something unexpected into the machinery . . . .

How is Codex stalling, MJ ?

They built up the USA, communist Russia (see Antony Sutton), “modern” Iran (Iran-Contra etc) and Israel just like they financed Hitler (see “The final solution to Adolf Hitler” by Jim Condit), they are preparing a WW3 of West against East, inciting Christians Jews and Muslims against each other, all are meant to be destroyed during their Monopoly game.

Yes we are quite predatory and even more programmable. Destroying is easier then protecting and building. They are already killing a third of us with cancer and the medical death industry. Money is in their hands and people increasingly corrupt. Secret services and societies are a well established power base, the mass media totally controlled, unrest usually directed from above. Planned destruction of nature, cultures and overpopulation is reaching a point where many are ready and secretly willing to participate in a global culling (see Georgia guidestones by Lucis Trust NY) and genocide.

If the banksters wish to destroy everything, they will, however if they wish to build something new, it is still possible they overestimate their power to transform humanity into a herd of suicidal egoists. Their game theory is flawed and they might fall victim to their own deceptions before they reach their goal of total control.

“How is Codex stalling, MJ ?”

Correct if I’m wrong, but with regard to supplements I understand that the European Court has made at least one significant amendment to the proposed legislation in that the onus will be on the drug companies to prove they are harmful, not on the producers to prove they are safe. It looks therefore as though we are not going to lose our supplements at the end of this year.

I understand also that the main Codex meetings are getting increasingly bogged down in procedural issues, with China and Brazil being particularly disruptive in this regard. Again, correct me if I’m wrong.

Great, thank you.

Where do you follow those news ?

Frank:

“Governments have long planned for the predictable riots that will ensue. Provided control over the police and military can be maintained there is little in this to give them pause.”

True, but my point was really about increased awareness and politicisation. The more transparent their agenda becomes and the more heavy-handed their enforcment of it becomes – as it must – then perhaps the more likely it is that the slumbering giant that is the global population will at last awake and exercise its imagination.

Researcher:

“Where do you follow those news ?”

Good question. I was following matters Codex very closely up until a couple of months ago, when I stumbled across the above, heaved a sigh of relief and moved on. Unfortunately the pages where I read them are no longer in my history folder. It may need some intense googling.

Thanks for caring deeply, MJ.

Do you know the Firefox extension Breadcrumbs ?

It creates a searchable archive of the contents of visited websites:

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/2954

Craig, this would be an interesting subject, where can one follow news as little manipulated as possible, just to keep an overview of developments ?

“George Dutton, you want to be right ?”

researcher

What a VERY stupid thing to say to someone.Didn’t you read my post I said..”Me thinks”…Still in your case stupid is as stupid be…”Me thinks”.

Why do you think it’s too late ?

“Why do you think it’s too late ?”

What is there to tell you it is NOT too late…That is the question (I sound like Thatcher there).

But to answer your question…

Science and technology have given the few unprecedented powers to control ALL off mankind,and the given history off mankind and how in the past he has used power to gain control of his fellow man.Also (you have to think about this)when did mankind EVER make a weapon to kill/control his fellow man and NOT use it to do so…sooner then later?.I can’t think off one?…I said “unprecedented powers” above…well that is not true (as such)the romans came up with new ways to fight this gave them GREAT powers to control many nations…now what did they do with this power.

Idiocy is usually described as “endlessly repeating the same process, hoping for a different result”.

George:

“What is there to tell you it is NOT too late”

The fact that it hasn’t quite happened yet, in its entirety at least.

“the romans came up with new ways to fight this gave them GREAT powers”

Yet eventually they were defeated.

“Yet eventually they were defeated.”

MJ

As I said above…”Science and technology have given the few unprecedented powers to control ALL off mankind”…Even the early/late Romans didn’t have that power (as such).But then again,I am telling you nothing you don’t already know in your heart MJ…

http://tinyurl.com/con87a

Those in need of a cheer-up could do worse than visit the Grauniad’s Cif section, wherein a government tool foolishly attempts to put ID card/UKBC critics’ minds at rest.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/feb/09/ukbordersagency-idcards

I’ve never witnessed such an undiluted outpouring of scorn on that site as this post has produced. Not a single comment even remotely in her defense. Enjoy.

False optimism can be dangerous.

But to lose hope in advance (“Time will tell”) has effects like defeatism.

I don’t like hurting your feelings, George Dutton, but emotions are the often decisive foundations of our actions. These underlying motivations need to be discussed without intimidation or ridicule. You think we have lost already, but your thoughts as explained above are much thinner then what you posted before. That’s why i’m glad that you say you don’t cling to your conclusion.

Why would MJ know in his heart that we have lost already ?

Verismo, the comments there are encouraging. Signs of a population well aquainted with a totally detached and authoritarian government, yet not intimidated.

researcher

Your whole post makes no sense ?.

“but your thoughts as explained above are much thinner then what you posted before. That’s why i’m glad that you say you don’t cling to your conclusion.”

I will get back to you when you are sober.

Just good to know then, that apart from your informative posts with links, you like to verbally abuse others when they question your thoughts.

Pity, i had hoped you were happier then that. Time will tell

“you like to verbally abuse others when they question your thoughts.”

researcher

I thought that was what you did…

“George Dutton, you want to be right ?”

February 10, 2009

“Catastrophic Fall in 2009 Global Food Production”

“After reading about the droughts in two major agricultural countries, China and Argentina, I decided to research the extent other food producing nations were also experiencing droughts. This project ended up taking a lot longer than I thought. 2009 looks to be a humanitarian disaster around much of the world”

“To understand the depth of the food Catastrophe that faces the world this year, consider the graphic below depicting countries by USD value of their agricultural output, as of 2006?…

http://tinyurl.com/acsyje

December 26, 2008

“The Shadow Money Lenders: The Real Significance of The Fed’s Zero-Interest-Rate Policy (ZIRP)”

“The Battle To Save The Fiat Money System Has Begun”

by Matthias Chang

“The disinformation by the global financial dailies in the last twelve months as to the cause of the global financial tsunami, serve the same purpose as the global mass media when they perpetuated the lies that lulled the people to support the war criminals Bush, Blair and Howard to launch the barbaric war against Iraq and Afghanistan which resulted in the genocide of millions, the mutilation of hundreds of thousands, physically and psychologically, and the devastation of an entire nation.”

“The wars unleashed thus far, specifically the “War on Terror” were launched to preserve the shadow money-lenders’ political and military power.”…

http://tinyurl.com/c8ld6o

Interesting link George, thanks for that.

“If American patriots, who are lawfully armed, rebel and resist the imposition of martial law, world war may be averted”

No wonder Obama has his sights on the Second Amendment, the only one left unscathed by the Patriot Act.

“I do not know what is going on here, and I don’t think I want to.”…

http://tinyurl.com/bn5lvh

“British GDP Has Already Collapsed by 30%”

“British GDP (AMBI) at the end of 2008 is estimated at £1.275 trillion, against £1.267 trillion at the end of 2007. However sterling has collapsed against major global currencies by 30% or more, which translates into a real terms collapse in the countries GDP of 30%, i.e. 2007 GDP of $2.7 trillion has now fallen to $1.8 trillion a collapse in GDP of over 30%. The Government, Bank of England and FSA are failing in their primary duty which is to preserve the purchasing power of the currency.”

“The Labour government has destroyed the purchasing power of the British Pound by 30% so as to save on 1% or 2% on the actual officially published GDP data during 2009. That’s a price of 30% for a net benefit of at most 1.5% which will still not prevent a deep recession from occurring. Quantative Easing is madness personified which for several months had been supported by the mainstream press which my November article illustrated -Bankrupt Britain Trending Towards Hyper-Inflation? , which sacrifices long-term growth for possible short-term benefit”

“Therefore whatever is the conclusion of this analysis in terms of sterling GDP contraction during 2009, what readers need to remember is that the real purchasing power of Britain’s currency loss of 30% means that the countries GDP has already been sacrificed in lieu of hoodwinking the electorate into believing that things are not as bad as they actually are”…

http://tinyurl.com/c3bs6g

“GEAB N

“it is illegal to issue shares in a nationalised company”…

http://tinyurl.com/d5p5by