Your post appears to be tribalist, attacking Tories for being Tories.

You seem surprised that someone might refuse to attack their friends in print or online. Most of us would be rather disappointed in our friends if they abandoned us, no matter what mistakes we had made.

You have neglected to address the point of Dizzy’s post – an error of logic on your part.

If I were financially corrupt, I would by no means expect my friends to defend me. But then, I’m not a Tory.

If Iain had been quiet on both Moran and Dorries, your point would be fair. But to attack one and defend the other is undeniably hypocrisy, even if you view the Tories sticking together bit as honourable.

Whcih tribe am I from?

There should be a rule that nobody who is not already living in a constituency should be eligible to stand there as a candidate.

Goodbye to carpet-bagging. Simple.

You haven’t provided any evidence of Dale ‘defending’ Dorries, merely of his refusal to attack her.

They are personal friends, not mere colleagues in the Tory Party.

Expecting a blogger to attack EVERYONE that behaves in the same way that the blogger has found objectionable in one individual is an unreasonable expectation. The point of blogging is to be able to express opinions on what one wishes to express an opinion on.

Oh, dear God, Criag (sic), you’re pathetic.

Someone is pathetic for exposing double standards?

David,

No, of course Iain does not have to attack to attack

“EVERYONE that behaves in the same way that the blogger has found objectionable in one individual”

He can attack some MPs for doing it, and not attack others because they are his “personal friends”.

I have no wish to impinge on Iain’s freedom of speech. He has every right to be a stinking hypocrite if he wishes to. Just as I have every right to point out that he is a stinking hypocrite.

I fear you are allowing your dislike of Mr Dale to cloud your judgement.

It is not hypocritical to attack someone’s behaviour and to refrain from attacking someone else for similar behaviour. It may be inconsistent. It is not hypocritical. It would be hypocritical if Mr Dale himself behaved in the manner that he attacks Moran for doing. Since he is not an MP, he cannot behave in that way.

David,

Iain plainly defends Dorries. He says her behaviour is “Within the rules” in the same posting he says she has dome “Nothing dishonourable”. To attack one person and defend another, over the same behaviour, is hypocritical.

So cosy and such a scintillating social life.

On a lighter note, I’m off to the Classical Brits tonight. I am taking Iain Dale with me. I’m not sure what Iain thinks of classical music. When chatting to him just now you would have thought he was being taken to the dentist!

(From her blog)

He doesn’t defend her. Stating the behaviour is ‘within the rules’ is merely reporting facts. He has avoided condoning her behaviour, just as he has refused to condemn it.

Hypocrisy is the failure to practice what one preaches, not a failure to preach consistently.

you forgot to say he is English

Mary,

I am trying to keep comments vaguely on topic. If you want to repost without the long poem about Gaza, you’re very welcome. I will try to blog some Palestine thoughts soon and then you can give us the poem.

Craig, your language (‘stinking… hypocrite’) is your own, but your point is well made.

Someone who takes it upon themselves to condemn someone in public without the full facts, but reserves the right to hold someone else guiltless, because they are privy to more of the facts, and does so in public is, quite literally, a hypocrite. They are saying one thing and doing another.

Speaking personally, I think that everyone who is accused should have the right to make their case. But, if they recognise they have no case, they should resign from the House right away, not merely step down from a particular responsibility.

Craig, your language (‘stinking… hypocrite’) is your own, but your point is well made.

Someone who takes it upon themselves to condemn someone in public without the full facts, but reserves the right to hold someone else guiltless, because they are privy to more of the facts, and does so in public is, quite literally, a hypocrite. They are saying one thing and doing another.

Speaking personally, I think that everyone who is accused should have the right to make their case. But, if they recognise they have no case, they should resign from the House right away, not merely step down from a particular responsibility.

Hypocrite? Aye.

Craig Murray, a sad, pathetic, bitter and twisted wee Schortlander.

Have pity on the stinking Scotch commie.

Craig, can I respectfully suggest that you do not blog on the utterances of other bloggers. It just leads to a flame war which is pretty boring as a spectator sport. I get the clear impression that most of the readers of your blog know without prompting exactly where to file the Tory bloggers. They are having their day in the sun, because most people agree with them this is the most awful goverment in a century or more. I even agree with Guido that Brown is bonkers.

Their fires will go out when the Tories take power and the carousel continues to turn to the same old tune. They will find themselves lonely voices then, and blogs like Guido’s, fuelled by leaks, will find their oxygen tube stepped on when the revelations are about Tory misdeeds – because they won’t print that, will they?

Are there credible alternatives to the established political parties ?

This expenses scandal is just one more example of the problems of a “democracy” that enjoys voter apathy. Apathy induced by the fact that the voter has no real choice in candidates.

Makes me wonder whether we shouldn’t just ditch the whole democracy fad and have the Queen work for her keep instead. Interesting that the crown is the place to resort to when politicians lose credibility to this point. Perhaps the public need the right to bring a vote of no confidence mid term instead.

I agree with Vronsky’s sentiments – come on Craig, let’s not get sucked into ‘my blog is more honourable than yours’ discussions; it’s spectacularly boring and you end up getting sucked into neverending petty tit-for-tat insult trading and everyone trying to get the last word. We know the tory bloggers are a self-serving shower who are desperate for their party to return to power after such a long time on the opposition bench. We’ll just have to see what the next General Election brings. In the meantime, let’s get back to the proper business of your blogging at which you are so good.

Vronsky and kc,

Thanks, important points.

I think blogging is an important new medium. I think it gets a good response for the public. I think there is a danger the public can be taken in by Tory bloggers, who seem “alternative” and are hiding the fact they want to keep the trough the same, and change the snouts.

So I think exposing the Tory bloggers is something worth doing.

Craig

Agreed, so long as it’s not being driven by personal animus…

I am struggling.

She has a private home to which she goes in parliament time. It is close enough to commute from. If she can not commute she pays her own hotel.

She also has a constituency home which she rents. She does not profit from it.

Where exactly is her wrong doing?

This is just silly.

I wouldn’t take any notice of Dizzy, Craig, he’s a troll without an original thought in his head, not to mention a nice line in making phone calls to ex-directory numbers and then screaming down it at the person.

Posted by: Scottish Doctor at May 16, 2009 6:46 PM

Herr Doktor it is not so difficult;

A- She is attending parliament (Lord knows why, but we will take this to be the manifestation of some sort of discharge of duty), in which case she then has to retire to her flat/pad/etc. In London for reasons of recuperation, so that she can return to parliament, to Carry On Membering some more.

B- She is attending her constituency office (where an awful lot of free-loading characters hang around and get paid as aids, etc.) supposedly to help solve the problems of those whom have voted him/her in. Hence she needs a flat/pad/country-house/etc. to recuperate and get back to the said office to solve more of the local problems, or add to these, depending on his/her moods.

Therefore the mutually exclusive cases of; either “A”, or “B”, does not leave room for a case “C”, that is a third place to be used for any trumped up reasons that can be conjured up in the way aiding him/her to do his/her “job” as an MP.

Finally, fact that she has claimed for A, Then B, and went on to claim for C too, even by the standards of the sty in the Westminster is somewhat fraudulent. Alas, every two bit MP, seems to have forgotten he/she is no more than a glorified social worker (tasked with far less reports to write) with privileges that include the capacity of choosing a prime minister, with a view to get on with serious criminalization of the we the people, for these verily believe we the people need to be spared from ourselves! This fact is clearly reflected in no less than fifteen thousand laws that have been passed for the duration of the last decade, concomitant with deregulation (buzzword for making it free for all, and no strings, such as the “expenses rules” that these MPs keep referring to, to absolve the “upper” class from any and all crimes, inclusive of; fraud, bilking, insider dealing, bribes, etc.) for the benefit of encouraging enterprise, and economic growth!

Has your confusion been allayed, now?

PS what about Gerald Kaufman and his £9000 TV set, did he buy the whole damn factory at that price, or does his TV come with its own broadcasting studios?

PPS If some Tory hacks think they can carry on in the foot steps of their propaganda machines, in the cyber space, these are set for a shocking disappointment, in the cyber space the rules are no longer written by the few, but by the masses.

I’ve been reading your blog for a while now. You are a nasty little peep, with a huge chip [or is that a large fried mars bar?] on both shoulders.

Your posts are by no means balanced [sometimes whinging, for example your blubbing about something you wanted publishing, but no one would touch it, a while back], so it is difficult therefore to agree with yet another rabid post, accusing someone else of something you are guilty of by the barrel load.

I think most people – especially those who hold all politicians in equal contempt – will recognise that you are simply being vindictive because you are so obviously a Scottish Labour supporter, who is sour because another Scottish Labour supporter didn’t get away with slagging off an English woman. This is aside from her own corruption, which is clear to us all. Your depths do not rise above the gutter, though. Totally hypocritical and totally Labour brainwashed.

The slavish voter is the one who threatens democracy, because they not only turn a blind eye to the corruption and ineptitude of their own Party, they excuse it – that’s you.

You are fast becoming the most rabid blogger on the internet.

You know you’re doing something right when you get so many folks pissed off. Keep up the good work.

change the record, why don’t you?

has just mentioned your recent book, which I’ve just started to read in full. You ask who owned Sandline and why Penfold was in cahoots with Spicer.

Wouldn’t the most logical answer be that within government there is a body with access to taxpayers’ money possibly excise/VAT duty which secretly funds such operations, arms for resources and so on.

And all because I linked to a post by Charles Crawford which you didn’t like.

I thought you were bigger than this. But clearly not.

Why do you always have to be so personal. “Stinking hypocrite”. No reasoning. Just insults.

I used to really think you were a person worth reading and engaging with. I no longer do.

How very sad you have reduced your blog to this level.

Craig,

We have just been away for a week on a boat. We even asked a guy who calls himself a Tory – and his lovely Girlfriend Maddie to come with us for a couple of days.

Maddie who comes from Accrington and is a Nurse – would say to all your fellow Diplomats who run their own blogs – which I have read – and your fellow politicians who also run their own blogs and try and score points

That not only do they not fucking “Get It” – but that they also don’t get it because they are a part of the same corrupt system

One of these tossers I think he was the ambassador for Belgrade – was trying to diss you – as being not an important part of the core system – the decision making process – or words to that effect

He completely missed the entire point because he himself was in the cushy glass house throwing rocks at you

The bloke has no fucking COURAGE to Challenge the ENTIRE SYSTEM

You stood Up Against The EVIL of Torture and said

NO

And some cunt tries to put YOU Down?

Sorry – We Ain’t Having This

We are not having this corrupt government and totally corrupt civil service sucking the life blood out of the English Working Class who WORK for your entire existence

Most of you tossers have never earned an honest penny in your lives

We also disapprove of Craig Murray for posting what he did on his wedding night

But Craig Murray has got BALLS

He has got the Courage You Don’t even want to dream about

So Craig – are you a New Dad with a New Baby or what?

Apologies for any swear words or lack of etiquette – but we’ve just been to see a great band.

This morning we were on the beach in Norfolk looking for Seals.

Tony

The Pig Farmer is Really nice and tall and speaks with a really posh accent and his wife is lovely

But tonight between songs – he got up on stage and says to the bass player – “You should have done that song in a slightly higher key”

Now the Bass Player just completely demonstrated what a completely Brilliant Musician he is playing one of the Most Demanding Rock Songs of All Time for a Bass Player – Completely Brilliantly

And so the Pig Farmer asks me to come and stay with him on his Country Pig Farm

And I was really and still am up for it

But I said you have to ask my Wife Julie

She arranges everything for where we go.

I am just her little boy and her husband.

And I Love He So

And Julie really Loves Pigs

Just Ask Her

I’m up for it

Tony

Well I read the whole comments and (never mind the shills and wankers) was somewhat disappointed to see no one come up with the obvious suggestion. Given that this venal corruption-fest centres on housing and money, why not kill two birds with one stone and follow Ditzy Whatshisname’s suggestion and house all our pollies in 2′ x 2′ cages. Vertical of course. God forbid they should sit about whilst on the job. No whining Ditzy! You’ve already declared your in-principle support.

Craig; you’re right, but I wonder whether Vronksy et al make a good point. Too late for this post and too late to maintain a non-hostile understanding with Dale, but I fear posts like these just allow your target off the hook. As above, Dale just complains to you about the language, and gets away without dealing with the central charge of hypocrisy.

Can we just make sure we keep the eye on the ball.

Brown says that a review will go back 4 years. Well that aint good enough. 4 years ago is when the challenge started to gain access to MP’s allowance information. Any switched on MP would have then seen the writing on the wall and cleaned up their act…funnily enough several snouters have managed to miss the writing on the wall (doom on them), however I believe there is more disdain to be found if we go back 8 years.

Were also missing out on their severance terms, tax breaks and the like. These should be detailed to the General Pubic

Iain Dale wrote:

‘ Why do you always have to be so personal. “Stinking hypocrite”. No reasoning. Just insults. ‘

No reasoning? How on earth is there no reasoning? You defended your friend for doing the same thing you attacked your enemy for. That is the reasoning and it makes you a stinking hypocrite. How did you miss it?

The Fatsnacker – I was thinking the same in the night when I couldn’t get to sleep. Let’s dig and dig. I have just been looking up the Register of Interests of their Secretaries and Researchers. Quite illuminating to see what WE are paying for.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmsecret/090403/090403.pdf 2009

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmsecret/080109/memi01.htm 2008

Of course there is hypocrisy on all sides (it is the British disease after all) – and I have no doubts about why people like Coulson at CCHQ, ably assisted by Dale/Guido and his other blogging sidekicks have now decided to but MPs 2nd home allowances on the agenda even though they have been around since the 1980s under Margaret Thatcher (clue a General Election is due with a year). Needless to say the Tories expect a bit of collateral damage – which useful idiots like Dale can be sued to minimise.

However, perhaps the plague on all your houses lot ought to have a little attention turned on their position as well. Some of you are undoubtedly nihilists and worse and goodness know what you want to see emerging from the wreckage. I suspect that there quite a lot of Press barons who are quite happy to play this card because they can feel their own influence increasing – do we really want a political system where the likes of the Barclays and Murdoch call the shots. Then there people like Guido with past links to the contras and other behind the scene operators with links to the security forces.

Perhaps Mr Fleming your experience in Uzbekistan should be telling you what might emerge in situations where democracy and civil society is weakened and held in low repute. Perhaps a little thought about how the damage might be repaired, with the framework of parlimentary democracy (and I ssupect that means the continuation of the main politcal parties) is now called for if you too want to avoid the hypocritical tag?

Perhaps Mr Fleming it

The problem is, Iain Dale, that if a Lib Dem does something wrong you become almost hysterical, but if a Tory does the same you find excuses. Better still, if a “friend” such as Conway breaks the rules you say nothing at all.

That is why you are a stinking hypocrite.

He’s currently complaining that The Telegraph gave Balls and Cooper an easy ride because their editor and Balls are mates…

Johnny Anomoly. Clearly you are selective in your reading. Did you see the stuff I did on James Gray last week? I called for the whip to be withdrawn. I have also praised Nick Clegg in glowing terms recently.

Grow up.

Iain,

Yes, but you haven’t actually answered my point about why Margaret Moran is “Shameless”, as you said, but Nadine Dorries is OK.

changetherecord – If you’ve been “reading this blog for a while now” and think the author is “obviously a Scottish Labour supporter”, I want what you’re smoking.

hahahaha grammar nazi response to a typo; blatent ignorance about the fuel efficiency of 4x4s; and the total ignoring of the criticisms of his own fallacious reasoning.

Craig, your response is undoubtedly an epic FAIL!

“blatent ignorance about the fuel efficiency of 4x4s”

Erm, I think you’ll find that in general 4X4s are far more fuel thirsty than normal cars, not least because they are much heavier due to strengthening and are thus way over engiineered for road use, which is all 99.99% of them ever see.

Essentially they’re twat chariots.

Didn’t Thatcher once say that the Tories were the true “green” party?

Perhaps Dizzy needs to be taken aside and reminded of the words of his goddess.

@Andy thank you for displaying further ignorance that makes assumptions about cars based on how they look rather than on the reality of their performance.

For example, if I may just hand you your arse on a plate, the Toyota Rav4, the Honda CR-V, the LandRover Freelander, the Suzuki Jimny, the Kia Sportage and the Hyundai Tuscon, all have carbon emissions that are lower, and do better mileage than your “normal” Ford Mondeo.

Let;s not forget as well the rather beautfiul Lexus RX400 which,. during urban driving, has zero emission and virtually zero fuel consumption. Oh but wait! It’s a big 4×4 it must be a twat chariot hat guzzles fuel!

@Carl Eve, I couldn’t give a shit what Thatcher said on the subject. She would however, what with her being a chemist, use empirical reality about a car, rather than the perception of how it looks to make a judgment upon its “greenness”.

It’s worth noting at this point that I only ever mention I drive a 4×4 to ensnare idiots that think the way a car looks defines its internal engineering rather than actually looking at its engineering.

Cheers.

And the battery farmed eggs Dizzy?

Ever thought of an allotment or growing some veg in the back garden.

Or should I just assume your response will be along the lines of “thanks, but I’ve got all the vegetables in my life I’ll ever need…”

A chemist… you think she’d have known when she was getting into heavy water, wouldn’t you?