The day British Rail was nationalised was a truly grim day for Britain.
Not one of the supposedly independent private companies that have been concerned since has managed to exist without phenomenally heavy subsidies from the taxpayer.
Privatisation didn't save the taxpayer one single penny and it cost the passenger dear.
Only the greedy rail company shareholders profit - and how!

So the entire system should be renationalised without a single penny of compensation from the State.
Any aggrieved companies or shareholders should have the right to obtain any compensation adjudged due from the pockets (or estates) of every member of both Houses of Parliament who voted for the privatisation of the railways at Second Reading, Committee Stage, Report Stage or Third Reading.
The MPs and Peers concerned -and their heirs if they're already deceased- should be both individually and collectively liable.
The aggrieved litigants should be able to pursue their compensation into the hands of third parties, legatees, recipients of gifts, etc. just like the proceeds of crime for that is what the privatisation of the railways was - a crime.
It's high time that legislators bore personal rsponsibility for their actions - in legislation as well as in corruption.

The privatised rail companies are fleecing us, their cheapest tickets, not available at stations, discriminating against those who have to travel to urgent apointments, are sold out even weeks before the train leaves the station, a ridiculous affair.

privatised rail in britain operates the worst and most expensive service in Europe and it should be nationalised, without re-imbursement of lost profits, they should only get back what they themselves invested.
I do not mind subsidising a national rail service, thats fine, but to subsidise private shareholders and other PFI's that have fallen on economic hard times, is robbing taxpayers.

"This phone call will be recorded for training purposes to help our staff be even less useful in the furute. Thank you."

"The day British Rail was nationalised was a truly grim day for Britain" - err, you mean privatised, shurely? ;-)

But I also wonder why we put up with the ludicrously priced train fares in the UK. Perhaps it is that old problem - if prices are hiked suddenly, there is an outcry; but if prices steadily go up over time, we feel it is inevitable, we grumble, but ultimately we do nothing about it.

Remember, amidst all the "Thatcher-screwed-the-trains" rants, that NXEC gouges everyone because it has to pay Gordon Brown over one billion quid for the franchise period as a whole. I'd say that's a passenger tax, not a subsidy.

Privatisation is a cancerous disease...Nationalisation is the cure...

http://tinyurl.com/5rzfcj

Gerard Mulholland

Brilliant post.

In the above link...

"A Belgian website [5] describes Hasselt identity cards as becoming "like gold in value", because of free bus travel."

We can do without that, no need for "identity cards". Otherwise it`s the way to go for the future.

On the bright side you can pretty much rely on NXEC being more than an hour late into York on a Sunday, so you'll qualify for getting a 100% refund of that outrageously expensive ticket with their 'delay repay' scheme.

The very useless and creepy Lord Adonis (the Bliar Educashun Educashun Educashn minister) renewed the franchise in spite of the rumours about their poor financial state.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/feb/09/adonis-backs-railway-franchise

Why did he do that when their condition is as dire as Christian Wilmar says?

http://www.christianwolmar.co.uk/2009/02/the-national-express-conundrum/

Welcome back - and good luck in Norwich!

It does not get much better on NXEA.
When NX won the combined Gt Eastern and West Anglia franchise they called themselves "One" and then having reliveried and resigned most of the stock and stations, changed to the parent company's brand last year. The Guard on a train I was travelling on on the morning of the changeover said all the money for the re-reliveried etc etc was being paid to the company direct from the DfT. Now they have introduced a seat reservation charge, having pledged to get rid of the much prized and long-running restaurant service on the Norwich-London route http://norwichrailwayrestaurant.wordpress.com/
NX have just published proposls to upgrade the trains which look good, but the devil may be in the detail.

The pricing structure of tickets for rail and air is an utter disgrace - if ever something was crying out for regulation, that is. Ultimately, the most outrageous situation to be in is to be sitting on a train in a seat identical to another across or right next to you, occupied by someone who paid 30,40,60, whatever quid less. That really is enough to make me wanna get out the torch and pitchforks.

Best of luck in Norwich, by the way.

Apologies for going a bit off topic.

This thread reminded me of the time (1965) when the name "British Railways" was rebranded to "British Rail". One of the benefits claimed for the change was the millions of pounds worth of ink that would be saved in forms, notepaper, tickets, etc. from the use of the shorter title.

I'm not joking. I remember it well because I had a particular interest in the company, having worked for it in Jersey, CI, in a summer job, some years previously. But that is another story entirely.

Hmmm, seems the rip off railway system is the same as is. Next time try getting on a different website and not National Express. For instance, you can get the same ticket by visiting London Midland and likely not to encounter an error. I got exactly the same ticket from their website for a National Express service.

Also I have noticed fares are expensive from Norwich to most places. Go for a few singles. When I have travelled up north, I get a single to Peterborough and then a return from Peterborough to Leeds (didnt go to York on this occasion). I then get a single from Peterborough to Norwich. Can work out a lot cheaper.

Seems like a good election issue. Reliable trains at reasonable prices.

"Seems like a good election issue. Reliable trains at reasonable prices"

Not as good as this one...

A lot of public servants/civil servants live in Norwich...

http://tinyurl.com/n8mnom

Where the USA goes today...The UK will go tomorrow,but at the moment...

tinyurl.com/lccb9p

Soon to change...me thinks...A few votes to win if this is made an issue.

Oh please. Iran's in crisis and all you can talk about is railways. Sorry you had a bad trip and all, but would be interested to hear your take on the protest/CIA-funded insurrection/bloodbath/twitter revolution. Press TV says this, BBC says that. Twitter could be anyone anywhere in the world. Whom to believe? I am sure you have an opinion.

anne

You are in the wrong thread,try this one...

http://tinyurl.com/l6at6z

eddie awaits you...won`t that be nice...NOT.

The worst train service in the world is a partly consequence of having the weakest and most toothless regulator in the world.

Tell me about it, as an actor who works in theatre quite often, I have to use the full length and bredth of the UK train system to get to venues and it can be a heartbreaking and mystifying experience at the best of times.

I have a particular loathing of Virgin trains, who, at weekends, used to eek out the journey from London to Manchester into a 4 hour epic.

Money Saving Expert has a useful guide to cheap(er) train tickets at http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel/cheap-train-tickets

Only two carriages on the Glasgow-Edinburgh 'rush-hour' trains, every day, every week, for years. Standing-room only. Ticket-prices double at rush-times, including in the tourist season. The road traffic b/w Glasgow and Edinburgh at these time is enough to turn a nun into an axe-murderer! Everyone knows about this ridiculous, environmentally crazy and counter-intuitive situation, which has persisted through Tory and Labour UK govts and, Labour Scottish Executives and the SNP Scottish govt as well! MSPs and half the City of Edinburgh actually use the railways themselves, for goodness sake (do they all go first-class, one wonders?). Why doesn't it ever change?

Frankly, local activist democracy in the USA, France and Italy is much stronger, people wouldn't have put up with it for this long. We - and of course I include myself in this observation - are a bunch of mugs!

Standing room only last time I was forced to use a train. Not in any rush to repeat the experience. If youre going to beat people with a "green" stick for having the effrontery to use cars every chance you get, the least you can do is have a public transport system somewhere south of daylight robbery for horse drawn cart travelling conditions.

The travel advice centre at Guildford (South West Trains) closed down to make way for a M&S Food outlet. Alcohol is available of course to fuel the late night anti-social behaviour.

Also you are lucky to find a ticket office window open. Machines only and there is not enough time to buy an off peak ticket to catch the first off peak train to Waterloo.

Over 400 staff have been made redundant mostly from the smaller stations along the line so no ticket offices at all. The recession is being blamed and the drop in passenger numbers. I believe I read in the EDP that Nat. Express have made or are making 1,500 staff redundant.

Actually, Teesbridge (June 21, at 3:11 PM), privately owned railways have always been a rip-off the tax payer.

1. When railways were first built they got 'private' Acts of parliament to authorise them -private companies- to compulsorarily purchase anybody's land to build the railways on - and at a price they themselves fixed.

2. Throughout the long century of rail disasters due to penny-pinching maintainance- crashes of such horror and magnitude that many of them are still the stuff of local legend- the railway companies sought and got subsidies and tax breaks from government after government.

3. When they were nationalised, as with all nationalisations, the price paid in Treasury Bonds was again fixed by the companies themselves - 'the free market price' on a date declared in advance.

4. After half a century of heroic management and deliberate under-investment by 33 years of Conservative governments and 14 years of Labour governments, the railways were flogged off on at prices fixed in advance which were expressly calculated to be so much less than the free market price would be so as to 'attract' investment and, sure enough, as soon as they'd been flogged off, they 'doubled in value'.

5. Ever since, the routes have been franchised out in order to raise money for the Treasury but subsidised by sums greater than the franchisees pay!

6. The principal railways, like all essential infrastructure, should belong to the community as a whole.

Private competition, freely entered into and freely financed without a penny of taxpayer subsidy, a square foot of compulsorarily purchased land or a single second of use of publicly owned rail facilities, should be permitted for those who seriously want to pay through the nose for the privilege of being 'private' and to provide the entrepreneurial input of innovation which is the only thing that any socialised systems ever lack.

Couldn't they provide you with a sealed train??

Couldn't they provide you with a private sealed train??

National Disgrace.

remember never vote tory ,if thay get in it will be a bad bad day for britain.remember they privatized the railways bring back brithish rail all is forgiven.

remember never vote tory ,if thay get in it will be a bad bad day for britain.remember they privatized the railways bring back brithish rail all is forgiven.

A shameless plug of sorts...

http://www.virginmediashorts.co.uk/films/film/the-stall/

Er, maybe because National Express is a coach service?!

You can book tickets for all train services via other companies' sites. When I was trying to buy tickets the other day, that's exactly what I did. I bought the same tickets via Virgin.

Craig

This I think is someone who had a similar experience to you...

http://tinyurl.com/l236y5

The chairman of a privatised company? Hmmmm...Bag not nearly big enough...

tinyurl.com/lh259g

This is not a train ride post and I know that I am off topic - but I just read this one on torture and wanted to know what Criag's take is on it - since it deals directly with torture - torture inflicted by and with the complicity of Her Majesty's Government..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8114001.stm

Sorry - me again - just bought a new computer and forgot to post my contact details...

( Back to previous post)

Craig

You may well find a lot of info on the well respected GEAB site to help in you election campaign...

http://tinyurl.com/metdxs

These boys and girls are never very far wrong in their forecasts.

If only the government would subsidise internal train travel rather than ryan-air and easy-jet then we'd have a better rail system with cheaper prices and far less pollution than now! Essentially British people pay a considerable amount in taxes to subsidise more than just the aforementioned airlines, most of which fly only short distances and internally (the most environmentally inefficient). As we all know, train travel is far more efficient than air travel with regards to emissions, especially if it's full. However, it will never be full at today's prices. The only reason that air travel is so cheap is because it is so well subsidised by the government.

When you're back home Craig and have a spare couple of hours, you might be interested in this excellent photo exhibition which just opened around the corner at the big house in Walpole Park: http://www.ealing.gov.uk/services/leisure/museums_and_galleries/pm_gallery_and_house/exhibitions/

It has a few shots taken in your old stomping grounds, as well as some other places in the region which I'd not even heard of.

I'm currently sat on a National Express train that has been queuing outside Grantham for the last hour due to a broken down train ahead. The poor passengers waiting to alight at Grantham have been up and down like yo-yos after each promise of a movement towards the platform lurches to an empty halt. The announcer has 'apologised for the lack of information' and ensures us that 'we will hopefully be moving forward shortly'. Beats moving backwards I guess, which is what National Express and there pitiful levels of service appear to be doing at an alarmingly - and depressingly - reliable rate. Hopeless is the only word for them.

This is the kind of cr*p a lot of services give. One thing that is useful, is being able to make a PDF of their webpage and email them the pic of their website. You can get a freeware program called CutePDF (I have nothing to do with writing or promoting it - just find it useful) for this. Or take a photo with your mobile phone - reverse CCTV (I use this a lot too.)

A little bit of light relief:
http://www.photopol.com/jokes/joke999996.html

Bowker resigns from the sinking ship and has found himself another cushy berth.

Will anything change for the benighted passengers on National Express?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/jun/30/richard-bowker-leaves-national-express

Well here's a turn up for the books.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8127851.stm

National Express loses rail route

The East Coast rail service has suffered falling passenger numbers
The government is to take the East Coast rail service, run by National Express, into public ownership.

The troubled rail franchise, which is expected to have lost £20m in the first half of the year, is suffering from slumping passenger numbers.

Ministers have refused the company's requests for its contract with the government to be renegotiated.

The Department for Transport said that all East Coast services would continue and that tickets would be honoured.

Existing operational staff will transfer to the new state company which will be set up to operate the route.

The government added it intended to put the franchise out for tender from late next year.

'No bail-out'

National Express won the franchise from GNER in 2007.

It agreed to pay the government £1.4bn to run the East Coast main line, which runs between Edinburgh and London, until 2015.

At the time, many rail analysts said it had paid too much for the franchise.

FROM THE TODAY PROGRAMME

More from Today programme
Now National Express has said it will walk away from the loss-making route after failing to alter the terms of its agreement - a step which prompted the government to intervene.

Transport Secretary Lord Adonis said: "The government is not prepared to renegotiate rail franchises, because I'm simply not prepared to bail out companies that are unable to meet their commitments.

"It is simply unacceptable to reap the benefits of contracts when times are good, only to walk away from them when times become more challenging."

In a statement, the government added that it believed it had also had grounds to end National Express's two other rail franchises - East Anglia and c2c.

But the company said it did not believe that the government had this power. It added that it did not expect the any losses from the franchise would be recouped from National Express.

Earlier this week, rival transport company FirstGroup said a takeover approach made for National Express had been rejected.

Debt pile

Richard Bowker, the chief executive of National Express, has confirmed he is to leave the firm, to become chief executive of Union Railway in the United Arab Emirates.

In a trading statement, National Express said that the "challenging economic environment" meant it was seeing fewer passengers on the East Coast Mainline and "significant" levels of people downgrading from first-class and full fares.

The firm is trying to reduce a debt pile of about £1.2bn.

Cuts have been made in dividend payouts to shareholders and other spending, while 750 jobs have also been lost.

Last month, the company started charging passengers for reserving a seat on its East Coast and East Anglia franchises.