Threatening The Powerful

by craig on July 19, 2009 5:15 pm in The Election

About 20,000 of our 80,000 DVDs have now been delivered, with startling results. People have started phoning up for posters, and coming out of their homes to shake our hands as we go past.

I have knocked on hundreds of doors personally, possibly thousands, in the last three weeks. I can report that I have detected absolutely no public enthusiasm for the Conservative Party. The media’s presumption that this is a shoo-in for Chloe Smith seems based on nothing. In fact, many more people have told me that they are voting UKIP, than have said they are voting for any other party. The large majority say they will either not vote, or will vote for an independent.

The media’s determination to hype the Greens is even weirder. At its most frenetic, the Green campaign has been invisible verging on lacklustre. They seem to think it will help them to be shrilly rude about me, while Rupert their candidate wears ties and tries to look official.

The BBC is doing everything possible to constrainn debate, and in particular to give no time to arguments against banking bailouts or aganst the Afghan War, and to corral political opinion back into the safe custody of the major political parties. Even though our campaign is the only interesting thing in Norwich, and even the Sunday Express reports today that I am “Head and shoulders above” the other candidates in debate, the BBC is excluding me from their live televised “Candidates’ Hustings” on Monday at 22.15.

They are also excluding UKIP. While I disagree with them fundamentally, they also plainly have a right to be heard. The BBC is trying to define the field of politicial debate and choice.

Guidance from the Electoral Commission clearly states that, where there is a candidates’ hustings from which any candidate is excluded, the candidates who take part must divide the cost of the hustings between them and declare it against their election expenses limit.

A BBC broadcast candidates’ debate, where the candidates’ speak for election and answer questions to voters, plainly is not BBC news and editorial content, but a hustings. That hustings reaches the voters through a broadcast, and the cost of the event is both the cost of organisation and the cost of broadcast to the voters. So the entire cost of the BBC broadcast must be divided between the candidates and declared against their election limit.

I am sure the Tories and Lib Dems at least are already over their election limit (to be disguised by false accounting on the cost of centrally printed leaflets). Each has already delivered a dozen different leaflets per voter, several of them in fake newspaper or magazine format. If the BBC hustings cost is divided between those candidates invited to take part – Con, NuLab, Lib Dem and Grren – they wil be tipped well over the limit.

I regret having to take a legalistic approach, but the BBC’s determination to exclude me from the election has to be countered.

Meantime, just as the momentum is really switching our way, we need both people here to help leaflet and canvass, and we need donations to cover the remaining materials and expenses of the campaign. Please, please come. or if you can’t please give something to help the work of those who are here.

127 Comments

  1. Hannah

    19 Jul, 2009 - 6:11 pm

    I know who I’ll be voting for – very refreshing to see someone who doesn’t hide behind political ‘crapspeak’. Well done, keep slogging away!!

  2. eddie

    19 Jul, 2009 - 6:16 pm

    Excuses. Excuses.

  3. anticant

    19 Jul, 2009 - 6:26 pm

    Craig, On an earlier thread I did offer you a donation in exchange for one of your videos. Where do I send it to?

    Your resident trolls would be best employed making excuses for the massive slump there’s going to be in the Labour vote not just at Norwich North but across the country in the general election.

  4. Geoff

    19 Jul, 2009 - 6:42 pm

    I would be interested in helping. Where do I go. I will be coming in from Cambridge.

  5. Craig

    19 Jul, 2009 - 6:44 pm

    Geoff

    101 Newmarket Road, first house on your left in Norwich

  6. Alan Wallace

    19 Jul, 2009 - 7:24 pm

    Good luck with the final push Craig. I’ll happily buy one of your DVD’s that you’re delivering for free. How do I go about it?

    Meanwhile, I hope the voters of Norwich take a look at the candidate rather than the colour of the rosette. It must be so much easier as a candidate when all your thinking is done for you at Central Office.

  7. gyges

    19 Jul, 2009 - 7:46 pm

    “The media’s determination to hype the Greens is even weirder. At its most frenetic, the Green campaign has been invisible verging on lacklustre. They seem to think it will help them to be shrilly rude about me, while Rupert their candidate wears ties and tries to look official.”

    A close look at the Renewable Obligation Certificate scheme will reveal that it is simply a wealth transfer mechanism. A hidden tax is placed on everyone’s electricity bill; the wealth from the tax is transferred to the green energy companies (usually wind turbines operators) and to the land owners upon whose land the turbines are sited.

    How many poor people in this country own land upon which they can site a wind turbine; or, are share holders in these green electricity companies?

  8. tony_opmoc

    19 Jul, 2009 - 8:05 pm

    Today, I found this 3 year old video of Craig Murray.

    I think it is quite excellent.

    So after watching it, prepare your travel arrangements to turn up at 101 Newmarket Road, in Norwich and deliver some leaflets

    If you do, he stands an excellent chance of winning

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNAe9hK4Yqc

    Tony

  9. George Laird

    19 Jul, 2009 - 9:34 pm

    Dear Craig

    Last week, no time to ease up, keep going full toot to the finish line.

    I sincerely hope you win and have the last laugh on the Labour Party.

    Yours sincerely

    George Laird

    The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University

  10. Rob Lewis

    19 Jul, 2009 - 9:57 pm

    If I can’t make it to NN (and I expect not I’ll certainly donate.

    Congrats on the Sunday Express piece, you seem to be getting some of the media coverage you deserve at last. It would be great to see more honest indepedendents in parliament, instead of party machines. Good luck Craig.

  11. The Cartoonist

    19 Jul, 2009 - 10:04 pm

    @Alan Wallace: the video is on YouTube for free.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/delboy4711

    I just came round watching it yesterday, and it’s fab. Well done, Craig.

  12. Parasite

    19 Jul, 2009 - 10:11 pm

    Now where do you find the time to knock on thousands of doors, if you end up on your tod leafleting in Crome like this afternoon…?

  13. Abe Rene

    19 Jul, 2009 - 10:33 pm

    A very encouraging report. Your knees are evidently in better condition than mine. It does look as though your efforts will be rewarded by your being elected MP!

  14. Abe Rene

    19 Jul, 2009 - 10:36 pm

    PS. If we can’t personally make it to Norwich, where and payable to whom should we send donations? Is there a secure payment website as some charities have?

  15. david

    19 Jul, 2009 - 10:43 pm

    CHALLENGE

    ___________

    I am giving up my Lotto habit for 1 month, and donating it to Craig’s campaign. That is only 10 Pounds. Come on, all of you others–there are many of you who get it, and admire Craig’s courageous stand–make a small financial sacrifice and see it mount up. Don’t let this campaign be limited by lack of resources. There is only a little time left, so do it now! Report back here, and fill up this post with your pledges.

    Craig, can you publish a bank account number for donations from people in the UK? It’s easier by internet banking than setting up a Paypal account for those who don’t have one, and the deductions will be less.

    People we’re onto something good here, let’s make it happen. The “mainstream” parties have put full time paid trolls on the job to run negative interference against Craig. It’s time to drown them out with positive action.

  16. Rob Lewis

    19 Jul, 2009 - 11:13 pm

    Well said, david.

    I believe I have witnessed some of that negative interference and a very ugly thing it is too. I will be donating shortly using the click through on http://www.putanhonestman.org (unless an alternative quickly raises its head), and here’s to positive action!

  17. Abe Rene

    19 Jul, 2009 - 11:54 pm

    I don’t like Paypal! Any alternatives?

  18. dreoilin

    20 Jul, 2009 - 12:54 am

    Unbelievable.

    Apparently this is Labour’s latest leaflet in Norwich:

    http://twitpic.com/aws15

  19. tony_opmoc

    20 Jul, 2009 - 1:59 am

    Fox is gay tory spoof. Check More photos by graemearcher

  20. dreoilin

    20 Jul, 2009 - 2:14 am

    hah!

  21. Luke

    20 Jul, 2009 - 6:37 am

    Craig,

    I still don’t get what your problem with the Greens is. What’s wrong with the wearing of a tie? Have you never had to wear a tie in your professional career?

    My broad understanding is that you are a popular figure amongst Green Party members and it’s supporters. I really have not heard anyone being rude about you. Fair do’s, we may be getting alot of coverage and our campaign may be suffering from not having as many numbers on the ground as we intend, but that makes press, radio and TV coverage ever so more important for a party.

    Craig, be it whether you stand as an independent or for a party, you have got to campaign in an area for a very long period of time. Three weeks is simply not enough o expect miracles. It either takes alot of money or a lot of time. The Greens went with the time approach and it has paid off. Look at UKIP, may have alot of money but have not campaigned in Norwich to any great depth on the ground over the years.

    Of course I would prefer a Green victory to any other, but it’s not going to happen, and that’s even more likely than a Craig Murray victory. It is a sad state of affairs, and I do sympathise with your efforts in breaking through to try and get coverage, but you have to stop putting the blame elsewhere. I know some in my party blame other parties, parties that use overt negative campaigning, but I have not seen any literature from any party that attacks you or demeans your chances. That’s the truth I’m afraid.

    Anyways, best of luck, and please do head my advice and those from other Greens. If you carry on lumping us with all those other parties (whose record suggests they do have rotten politicians in their ranks), then you may become an unpopular man within a party whose members still respect you.

    All the best,

    Luke

  22. Andy

    20 Jul, 2009 - 7:30 am

    Hi Craig,

    You might want to have a look at this post on the ‘Tory Activist’ blog.

    http://tinyurl.com/mh4wa4

    Scroll down to his ‘prediction’…

  23. Micky

    20 Jul, 2009 - 8:28 am

    Robin Page, an outstanding UKFP candidate at the recent European Elections was also excluded fom hustings by the media on the grounds his party had no current MEPs. Pity, he would have made mincemeat of Bannerman the UKIP candidate

  24. mary

    20 Jul, 2009 - 8:38 am

    It is noteworthy that the fascists and their spin doctors in the Conservative and Labour parties, so desperate not to lose control, encourage their supporters to label as a nutter or a looney anyone who speaks the truth or is in some way a threat to that continuance of power. I see this increasingly on blogs.

  25. Jon

    20 Jul, 2009 - 9:43 am

    @Abe – If you’d like to donate but prefer not to use Paypal, then I would suggest you send a cheque to the campaign office where I am sure Iain would be happy to deal with it:

    8-10 Cromer Road

    Norwich

    NR6 6ND

    I will send one too. I will also email Iain so if he has any better instructions (eg account details to permit a direct funds transfer) then he can get them put on the website.

    Btw, I came back to the Midlands last night at gone 3:30am, crashed out at 4am, and got in the office at work this morning at 9am. I thought I’d just be emitting ZZZs at my desk, but actually I feel fine; I genuinely put it down to the fantastic sense of purpose amongst the campaign team on the road and at the house. I am only sorry I couldn’t stay longer!

    Anyway I have a strong coffee in front of me, and I will line up the next one soon :-)

  26. The Eyes Have It

    20 Jul, 2009 - 10:22 am

    Stop whining like a fucking baby, you overgrown excuse for a man. If you had any real support in Norwich, and a record of activism in the city, rather than somewhere else in the world that no one in Norwich cares about, you would be “the only interesting thing in this campaign.”

    You are so full of yourself, you fat shit.

  27. Jon

    20 Jul, 2009 - 10:30 am

    Don’t feed the trolls, folks. The campaign is on a real high, and any abuse/negativism from (New Labour?) detractors is just trying to tear that down. Don’t rise to the bait… the energies of supporters need to go into leafletting and organising, and if you can’t do either of those, please do donate some money!

  28. Abe Rene

    20 Jul, 2009 - 10:37 am

    @ Jon

    You’re spot on. To whom should cheques be payable?

  29. Jon

    20 Jul, 2009 - 10:40 am

    @Abe – I will find out for you, and will let you know in this thread :o )

  30. BM

    20 Jul, 2009 - 11:03 am

    My aren’t the hacks getting rattled? If they’re not careful their heads will explode before Thursday and THEN who will do the establishment’s dirty work?

    Best of luck Craig – the big day is nearly upon us.

    One thing is for certain, whatever the results – all of us progressives from right across the spectrum will have to seriously get together and work out how we are going to unite once and for all, and put a stop to the attacks from the establishment parties. Attacks on the working classes, attacks on immigrants, attacks on Muslims, attacks on people in the third world, attacks on people unlucky enough to be sitting on precious resources across the world.

    Now that the far right hatemongers are also making gains, bickering and in-fighting is no longer an option for us on the left.

    We have to get our arses in gear and come together, fast.

    P.S – I’ll be donating a little something to your campaign Craig. x

  31. Anonymous

    20 Jul, 2009 - 11:12 am

    The Eyes Have It,

    Yo, bruv…..

    Who will you be voting for?

  32. Ian

    20 Jul, 2009 - 11:47 am

    Here’s the response from the BBC to my complaint that Craig Murray was to be excluded from a special edition of Look East about the Norwich North by-election.

    Dear

    Thanks for your e-mail regarding ‘Look East’.

    I understand you felt we should have given more coverage to the Independent candidate Craig Murray on the programme.

    When there are a large number of candidates (at least 10 so far in Norwich North) the broader interests of the voters would not be served by giving equal coverage to each and every candidate, irrespective of their chances of success. So when editors are deciding how much coverage to give, relatively, to different parties and candidates in any election, one of the key factors they look for is “evidence of past and/or current electoral support” in that electoral area.

    On that basis, in Norwich there is clear evidence of support for the three main parties as well as for the Green Party and therefore those parties will be getting similar levels of coverage. Similarly, there is evidence from the recent elections that both UKIP and the BNP have some support in at least parts of the constituency and they will also, proportionately, be given an appropriate level of coverage by programmes covering the by-election.

    Other candidates, including independents, will receive at least a minimum level of coverage and may, where editorially justified, receive more coverage proportionate to the other parties – again taking some account of evidence of electoral support in the constituency.

    Of course you may still be unhappy with our coverage so I’ve registered your comments on our audience log. This is the internal report of audience feedback which we compile daily for all our programme makers including the ‘Look East’ team. It ensures that your points on the programme are circulated and considered across the BBC.

    Thanks again for taking the time to contact us.

    Regards

    Michelle Wiggins

    BBC Complaints

  33. mary

    20 Jul, 2009 - 12:11 pm

    Also powerful is Common Purpose’s Julia Middleton who is extracting large sums from county and local councils, police authorities including the Met, fire services an other employers who send employees on her induction courses. which cost several £thousand a time. Prescott’s office gave 500,000 to CP.

    The BBC is also heavily involved and this is a list of those who have been on the courses. You notice a few BBC Norwich TV and radio types amongst the names.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/12750017/Common-Purpose-BBC-Names

  34. mary

    20 Jul, 2009 - 12:15 pm

    That should have been £500,000 but I see from this article that NuLabour have given CP much more than that in total. Why is CP so secret.

    http://centurean2.wordpress.com/2008/08/10/common-purpose-fabians-bbc-traitors-all/

  35. Parasite

    20 Jul, 2009 - 1:17 pm

    BM: “My aren’t the hacks getting rattled? If they’re not careful their heads will explode before Thursday and THEN who will do the establishment’s dirty work?”

    Yes, we here in The Establishment (TM) are running scared of Mr Murray. If we’re not too careful he might even keep his deposit and then where will we be?

  36. Liam

    20 Jul, 2009 - 1:20 pm

    It was once the case that all candidates had to be given as much equal time as ever, but Labour soon tore up the rules on that. I’ve seen the “remaining candidates” zip through the bottom of the screen at unreadable speed.

  37. Jives

    20 Jul, 2009 - 1:27 pm

    Only had 8 quid in my Paypal A/C but i’ve sent it onto you…

    Have a few drams on me Craig…

    Best of luck,keep pushing…

  38. JimmyGiro

    20 Jul, 2009 - 1:35 pm

    Ian @ 11:47

    “It ensures that your points on the programme are circulated and considered across the BBC.”

    So the bin-men get several chances to read it !

  39. Cheryl

    20 Jul, 2009 - 1:58 pm

    Good luck Craig. I would vote for you if I lived in Norwich! I hope there are hundreds of people just like me in Norwich.

    You are the only politician I know of who has any scruples!

  40. VamanosBandidos

    20 Jul, 2009 - 3:01 pm

    Yes, we here in The Establishment (TM) are running scared of Mr Murray. If we’re not too careful he might even keep his deposit and then where will we be?

    Posted by: Parasite at July 20, 2009 1:17 PM

    =====

    Yes that is why they stole my votes too, and then said so confirming it to me, just to make sure that I know who is in charge!

    Trouble with your kind of vermin is, you just cannot see there are too many incidents of little hitlers throwing their weight around, and sooner than later everyone of the plebs is going to know about it, but you hope by then the Fascio is no longer in the shadows but out in the open and all is as per the demands that are barked at the slaves.

    You never know who is posting on these boards, do you?

  41. Anonymous

    20 Jul, 2009 - 3:17 pm

    Encouraging article here:

    Sunday July 19,2009

    By Ted Jeory

    LABOUR are so embarrassed by Gordon Brown that not one picture of him appears in campaign leaflets for next week’s Norwich North by-election.

    So concerned are Labour chiefs he is an electoral liability, the airbrushed Prime Minister has also failed to make any appearances on the campaign trail.

    David Cameron and Nick Clegg, meanwhile, have each visited the city four times, as Tories and Lib Dems threaten to overturn a 5,500 majority and push Labour into third place.

    Even the Green party is becoming a threat.

    The by-election was called after the resignation of Dr Ian Gibson, who quit in disgust last month at being reprimanded by Labour bosses for suggesting he had misused his second home allowances.

    It was the final act of revenge for the perennial rebel, with the Tories’ 27-year-old Chloe Smith expected to trounce Labour’s uninspiring Chris Ostrowski and become the country’s first post-sleaze MP on Thursday.

    However, a by-election in the home of Colman’s mustard that was meant to be a fresh start for politics is starting to leave a nasty taste in the mouth.

    If politics cannot change in genteel Norwich, there is no hope anywhere, one cabbie quipped last week.

    There is a joke among Sunday league footballers that Capital Canaries, the club for Norwich City’s London-based fans, are so nice that they refuse to tackle their opponents.

    Alan Partridge notwithstanding, it is a reputation well earned, for the city that spawned Nelson, Delia Smith and Sale of the Century, is one of Britain’s most civilised destinations. However, squabbling politicians are souring things.

    The Lib Dems have been accused of dirty tricks after branding the Green candidate, philosophy lecturer Rupert Read, an “extremist” and a “nutter” for saying Britain had the July 7 terror attacks “coming to us”.

    While the improbably named Lib Dem candidate, April Pond, has been irritated after revelations she lives in a house with a large moat. Unsurprisingly, voters have been turned off.

    At a hustings organised by Age Concern last Thursday, fewer than 20 turned up.

    Of those who did, the thumbs up went not to Tory Ms Smith, but to Norfolk-born Craig Murray, the former British ambassador to Uzbekistan, who is standing as an independent anti-sleaze candidate.

    To many, he stood head and shoulders above the others, answering questions thoughtfully instead of trotting out party-approved mantras.

    But despite spending £35,000 delivering a promotional DVD, he has struggled to attract media attention.

    He has not even invited to tomorrow’s BBC hustings event, which has room only for the three main parties and the Greens.

    “It’s a travesty of democracy,” he said. “This is an election caused by a breakdown in the system and a lack of faith in MPs and the more people hear me, the more impressed they are.”

    The cynicism of mainstream politicians was summed up last Thursday by Jan Edwards, a maternity unit manager at the Norfolk and Norwich University Hospital.

    As she showed Nick Clegg around her ward, she told the Sunday Express: “I’m not sure you can trust any of them. They make lots of promises, but never keep them.”

    Labour said Gordon Brown had “no plans” to visit Norwich North.

    A spokesman added that despite his appearance on the Glenrothes campaign trail last year, it was the “convention” that prime ministers do not campaign in by-elections.

    http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/114825/What-no-Brown-

  42. Parasite

    20 Jul, 2009 - 3:43 pm

    VamanosBandidos: keep it up. No doubt Brown himself is delivering “the knock at your door” as we speak. And I’m told the head of MI5 posts here as “George Laird”, just to keep an eye on all you radicals. Scary uh?

    Grow up eh? Or stop eating the Stilton, it gives you nightmares.

    Of more import is Mr. Murray’s decision, as recorded at Norfolk Blogger, to keep on flyposting after he’s been told to stop, on some spurious basis that “posters on lampposts are the done thing in Scotland where I’m from, ooh but then I’m Norfolk born and bred aren’t I?”

    Don’t tell me it’s an establishment plot! They’re flyposting for Murray when his back was turned!

  43. Jon

    20 Jul, 2009 - 4:07 pm

    @VamanosBandidos – I recommend you don’t feed the trolls. But do engage in constructive discussion if you see reasonable critical comments. Luke’s message above regarding the Greens I think has been answered by Craig elsewhere, but it was polite and I think it would be more productive for that to be answered instead.

    That all said, I am not trying to be the comment police. Freedom essentially reigns on this board ;-)

  44. Vernon

    20 Jul, 2009 - 4:22 pm

    If the BBC have sent journalists to Norwich North who have been unable to find evidence of electoral support for Mr Murray they are as stupid as they are incompetent.

    The alternative is that they are thoroughly dishonest.

  45. dreoilin

    20 Jul, 2009 - 4:28 pm

    [Priceless. Every time 'eddie' disappears, 'parasite' shows up. He's even stealing my phrases.]

    Can anyone explain to me how this could possibly make sense?

    “the broader interests of the voters would not be served by giving equal coverage to each and every candidate” –BBC complaints

    The broader interests of the voters would not be served?

  46. Abe Rene

    20 Jul, 2009 - 4:42 pm

    The “broader interests of the voters” presumably includes preventing extremists gaining inflence. The trouble is, such an idea easily leads to unfair censorship, such as banning Craig from the media.

  47. anticant

    20 Jul, 2009 - 4:59 pm

    What business is it of the BBC to decide what “the broader interests of the voters” are? It is the business of the BBC to present a clear and impartial account to the voters of who is standing and what their platforms are.

    The BBC will be telling us next who it is in our “broader interests” to vote for – or else.

    Shades of Ceausescu!

  48. Parasite

    20 Jul, 2009 - 5:03 pm

    [dreoilin: Yep, you found me out. I'm even Craig Murray at the weekends, leafleting council estates with my massed ranks of armchair supporters cheering me at every step from the safety of their laptops]

    Of course the BBC isn’t going to give every candidate equal time. Some are serious contenders, some like the Greens are in the running to do decently with a small base in councillors, whereas others are attention-seeking one-man-band cranks on ego trips who won’t save their deposits and won’t be seen in Norwich past Friday (hello again Mr Murray)

  49. David Allen

    20 Jul, 2009 - 5:34 pm

    Parasite,

    If you really believed what you are saying about Craig Murray’s chances in the election, you wouldn’t be wasting your time repeatedly posting about it!

  50. sam

    20 Jul, 2009 - 5:36 pm

    What business is it of the BBC to decide what “the broader interests of the voters” are? It is the business of the BBC to present a clear and impartial account to the voters of who is standing and what their platforms are.

    The BBC will be telling us next who it is in our “broader interests” to vote for – or else.

    Shades of Ceausescu!

    Posted by: anticant at July 20, 2009 4:59 PM

    ===========

    I’m with you again, anticant. What the **** is the BBC up to these days? More to the point, who exactly is pulling their strings? Whoever it is, the Beeb is patently no longer an independent, impartial reporter. What a huge shame.

    Good luck, Craig.

  51. anticant

    20 Jul, 2009 - 6:32 pm

    The aptly named parasite introduces a red herring as usual. No-one expects the BBC to give equal time to all the candidates. What licence payers have a right to expect is that the BBC makes an adequate statement – on their website if nowhere else – of who the candidates are and what they stand for.

  52. eddie

    20 Jul, 2009 - 6:33 pm

    Big Girl

    You are starting to sound as paranoid as the rest of them on here. You’ll be saying that the world is run by a secret cabal of lizards next. You need to get out more.

  53. Abe Rene

    20 Jul, 2009 - 6:52 pm

    The BBC is funded by the state, and so cannot be completely independent of government. But taxpayers pay for it, and we have a right to demand better service in terms of impartial coverage of events like an important by-election. It would be interesting to analyse the more indirect influence on ITV by the state.

  54. David Allen

    20 Jul, 2009 - 7:20 pm

    “You are starting to sound as paranoid as the rest of them on here. You’ll be saying that the world is run by a secret cabal of lizards next. You need to get out more.”

    No Eddie, that’s just you, trolling away frantically for Labour, trying to paint a false picture of Craig’s campaign by repeatedly lying about it. You and your like are just a disgrace.

  55. mary

    20 Jul, 2009 - 7:56 pm

    The Six O’Clock news on BBC 1 had an item about the Norwich North by- election by Nick Toemails Robinson. After a bit of history about uprisings 400 years ago, a radio studio was shown with some candidates having a discussion but without Craig there of course. The childlike Chloe piped up with some inane remark. Then Darling was shown with the NuLabourite and mention was made that Broon had not been to visit. Then a scene of Cameroon on a soapbox followed and we had to hear that he had been up to Norwich FIVE times. His audience of Conservative clones cheered when prompted. Rupert Read and Ms Pond also had a few words.

    The piece finished with a list of the candidates. Most unfair and very biased. Got the feeling that Toenails was pushing the Conservatives.

  56. anticant

    20 Jul, 2009 - 8:14 pm

    As long as decrepit and past its use by date New Labour remains in office, this country IS being run by a secret cabal of witless reptilian scum.

  57. George Laird

    20 Jul, 2009 - 8:15 pm

    Dear Eddie/parasite

    I like your name “parasite”, it fits you better.

    “And I’m told the head of MI5 posts here as “George Laird”, just to keep an eye on all you radicals. Scary uh?”

    Was it the guy in the next bed at the Loony bin?

    Not long till New Labour get wiped out in Norwich North.

    Yours sincerely

    George Laird

    The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University

  58. eddie

    20 Jul, 2009 - 8:35 pm

    David

    Come, come. I’ve donated £25 to Craig’s campaign. He doesn’t stand a chance but just to show there are no hard feelings. You don’t seriously think anything I do or say will make an iota of difference to his chances do you? By Look East tonight it suggests that apathy will be the winner.

  59. Ruth

    20 Jul, 2009 - 9:08 pm

    What we need is to clean out the corrupt system that molds our lives.

    We need an MP who will stand up for us and challenge what the Establishment/permanent unelected government dictates to the three main parties.

    We need someone to challenge the secrecy of government; someone to ask why the results of Dr Kelly’s postmortem are hidden; someone to ask why there hasn’t been an inquiry into 7/7 when some facts given by the state are fallacious or deeply suspicious; someone to ask why the UK government is so desperate to stop the appeal into the Lockerbie bombing.

    We need someone to stand up in Parliament to ask if the government is complicit in the excise and VAT frauds in which billions of the taxpayers’ money disappears abroad.

    We need open government so that we can say we’re a democracy. When we don’t know what a political party has done, does or will do, we can’t say we make a choice.

  60. George Dutton

    20 Jul, 2009 - 9:18 pm

    Jon

    Sent a small donation by paypal the other day…I have been away,just got back,checked my e-mails and found this…

    “Hello George Dutton,”

    “We’ve finished reviewing of the transaction below, determined the payment was authorised, and advised the seller to send the item(s).”

    “There might be a slight delay in your delivery due to the review time.”

    Hmmmm…I don’t like using paypal.Hope money got through?.

  61. Ruth

    20 Jul, 2009 - 9:55 pm

    My donation got through on paypal. It might have been a fault or it might have been further stealthy disruption to the campaign.

  62. Craigslist

    20 Jul, 2009 - 11:21 pm

    I love how Craig has blogged endlessly about all the “obstacles” the BBC/ZaNuLabour have put in his way – with all his loyal trolls slavishly complaining away in the comments – because it means he can sit on his fat Scottish arse all day long, and then when he loses spectacularly he can say it was a conspiracy.

    Wanker.

  63. Ruth

    21 Jul, 2009 - 12:07 am

    I’m hoping that Craig can clean out the corrupt system that molds our lives;

    that he will stand up for us and challenge what the Establishment/permanent unelected government dictates to the three main parties; that he can challenge the secrecy of government and ask why the results of Dr Kelly’s postmortem are hidden, why there hasn’t been an inquiry into 7/7 when some facts given by the state are fallacious or deeply suspicious; and ask why the UK government is so desperate to stop the appeal into the Lockerbie bombing.

    Also we need someone to stand up in Parliament to ask if the government is complicit in the excise and VAT frauds in which billions of the taxpayers’ money disappears abroad.

    We need open government so that we can say we’re a democracy. When we don’t know what a political party has done, does or will do, we can’t say we make a choice.

  64. Rob Lewis

    21 Jul, 2009 - 12:20 am

    No mention of Craig in Monday’s Times, or indeed any of the other independent candidates, but it does report that voter frustration with the established parties is at an all time high in Norwich North. I hope you give them a run for their money Craig, and I’m sure everyone in your team is working hard.

    We could do with a few more independents inside Westminster. I am sure we will have soon, as much as this might displease some people.

  65. Merkin

    21 Jul, 2009 - 12:53 am

    Orrabest, Craig

    Been following it well.

    Couldn’t help, physically, but am trying in other areas as i am too far North to travel.

    Anti sent me an email and I told him, something like, that you must be hurting ‘them’ or the trolling would not be so great.

    Keep going, thatz all I can say.

  66. A

    21 Jul, 2009 - 1:09 am

    Bishop, Tim. Head of Regional & Local Programmes BBC East, Norwich, The Forum Norfolk 2000, Norfolk, Matrix

    Hare, Diana. Editor Features BBC East, Norwich, The Forum Norfolk 2005, Norfolk, Matrix

    Both Common Purpose trained.

  67. KevinB

    21 Jul, 2009 - 3:17 am

    Craigslist,

    You guys who come on this blog to be angry and abusive are really amusing.

    Of course it is well known that humans always tend to expect others to behave, in any given situation, the way they would behave themselves.

    That’s why cheats are paranoid about others cheating them, bullies think if they don’t ‘overdefend’ themselves someone else will expose or bully them, honest people are genuinely surprised by crookedness etc.

    You really are a piece of work, if you mean anything of what you say….

    Yes, Craig has obviously spent tens of thousands of pounds on his campaign because he really wants to laze about, lose and then wallow in the way the media have denied him a hearing with the electorate.

    It is also entirely fair that in this fight the playing field should in no way be level.

    It is pretty obvious that someone here is exercising the febrile and distracted mind of a chronic and compulsive masterbator.

    By the way, the old wives’ tale that masterbation stops you seeing is false….it just stops you looking.

    Craigslist, take a stroll round Norwich North. Speak to people.

    Do you flies up first, mind. They’re conservative with a small ‘c’ round here.

    Thankfully.

  68. mary

    21 Jul, 2009 - 7:47 am

    I have just looked at the BBC Look East page on the by-election. This is only token piece in which Craig gets a short opportunity to speak along with the UKIP candidate.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8153837.stm

    I watched the travesty of the live ‘debate’ on the internet. Only FOUR chairs were lined up for Smith (C), Read (Green), Ostrowski (L) and Pond (LD) with the presenter taking questions from the studio audience. How had they been chosen I ask? I have said it before but Smith is unbelievably unimpressive. She gesticulates more than she speaks and looks completely uncomfortable and scared as a rabbit in headlights. If elected I think it would be a miracle if she is ever heard of again and most unlikely to make her presence felt in the HoC. Just more Cameron lobby fodder.

    The programme is not on this page of links.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk//lookeast/norwich_north_byelection_index.shtml

  69. George Dutton

    21 Jul, 2009 - 7:58 am

    “Threatening The Powerful”…

    http://tinyurl.com/l3qvdr

  70. Craigslist

    21 Jul, 2009 - 8:28 am

    KevinB:

    Craig has been caught cheating, not the other candidates. It is against the rules to flypost election posters. I have been to Norwich North. I don’t see any residents proudly displaying Craig Murray posters in their gardens, just those of the “evil parties”. Instead Craig and his loyal trolls must cheat to get any kind of presence.

    Parliament wouldn’t work without some kind of party system or formal grouping of MPs, like a caucus. FACT.

    Despite all the stuff you have kidded yourself into believing, 95% of people who vote, vote for parties. FACT.

    There have only been 3 independent MPs in the last 60 years. FACT.

    Betting odds are not an indication of how well candidates are doing, simply how many of Craig’s loyal trolls are trying to rig it. FACT.

    Craig’s odds are slipping fast, anyway. FACT.

    Craig is making many excuses for losing spectacularly, before he has even lost. FACT.

    Craig is an egotistical arrogant man who the people of Norwich North will reject – the good folk of Norfolk resent some Scot trying to pass himself off as local. FACT.

    Craig left his wife and kids for a belly dancer less than half his age. FACT.

    Craig would be worse than Galloway as an MP, never turning up to debate in the HoC, never being in his constituency office. Craig just wants a fat salary to go alongside his directorships. Some man of the people. FACT.

  71. mary

    21 Jul, 2009 - 8:38 am

    Quite finished Mr Nasty? Running scared?

  72. anticant

    21 Jul, 2009 - 8:57 am

    David Cameron in today’s ‘Telegraph’: “Chloe Smith is a great young, bright candidate. We need more people like her at Westminster.”

  73. anticant

    21 Jul, 2009 - 9:10 am

    Is craigslist belly dancer-phobic or just jealous?

  74. Ian

    21 Jul, 2009 - 9:12 am

    Mary

    Yes, I’ve noticed that Chloe Smith gesticulates more than she speaks. She looks like a thunderbirds puppet with the puppet master above pulling her strings!

  75. Ian

    21 Jul, 2009 - 9:34 am

    Craig

    politics.co.uk has quoted you on an item about Parliament protest:

    http://www.politics.co.uk/analysis/legal-and-constitutional/comment-parliament-protest-must-go-on-$1312635.htm

    Dictatorships, on the other hand, are very tidy. Take this, from Britain’s former ambassador in Uzbekistan, Craig Murray: “Totalitarian dictatorships are generally extremely tidy places. In Uzbekistan, even with major massacres, the streets are sluiced down within a few hours, bullet holes filled in, walls repainted, new flower beds instantly in bloom. There is never any litter, nothing out of place.”

  76. KevB

    21 Jul, 2009 - 10:22 am

    Craigslist:

    Quote: “Craig has been caught cheating, not the other candidates. It is against the rules to flypost election posters. I have been to Norwich North. I don’t see any residents proudly displaying Craig Murray posters in their gardens, just those of the “evil parties”. Instead Craig and his loyal trolls must cheat to get any kind of presence.”

    …….calling that ‘cheating’ is overstating the case. You don’t complain about the way Craig is unfairly disadvantaged.

    “Parliament wouldn’t work without some kind of party system or formal grouping of MPs, like a caucus. FACT.”

    Disagree. It would be a fair better and more create place as far away from the clutches of big finance as possible. I don’t want MP’s who are ‘owned’. That’s what it is ALL about for people like me.

    “Despite all the stuff you have kidded yourself into believing, 95% of people who vote, vote for parties. FACT.”

    True but we all know why that happens.

    “There have only been 3 independent MPs in the last 60 years. FACT.”

    Unfortunate but not denied, (if you say so).

    “Betting odds are not an indication of how well candidates are doing, simply how many of Craig’s loyal trolls are trying to rig it. FACT.”

    Really?…How would they do that?

    “Craig’s odds are slipping fast, anyway. FACT.”

    The only change I’ve seen was from 33/1 against to 25/1 against….that’s not slipping, is it?

    “Craig is making many excuses for losing spectacularly, before he has even lost. FACT.”

    Maybe he’s just demanding appropriate coverage NOW.

    Craig is an egotistical arrogant man who the people of Norwich North will reject – the good folk of Norfolk resent some Scot trying to pass himself off as local. FACT.

    I don’t know CM well enough to judge his character. He sacrificed his career on the issue of torture. That evinces pretty strong and moral character, in my opinion…..but humans are complex. There are bound to be weaknesses also. is it really for you to judge how ‘egotistical’ anyone is, never mind a person who is obviously, in some way, your opponent.

    the concept of FACT rarely sits accurately with the future tense. Craig’s ‘losing’ is NOT a fact.

    “Craig left his wife and kids for a belly dancer less than half his age. FACT.”

    mmm…OK.

    “Craig would be worse than Galloway as an MP, never turning up to debate in the HoC, never being in his constituency office. Craig just wants a fat salary to go alongside his directorships. Some man of the people. FACT.”

    This is just abuse. Wishful imagining. Obviously NOT FACT. To begin to suggest such things successfully you must refer to incidents of such absenteeism in the past, at least.

    For God’s sake man.

  77. Jon

    21 Jul, 2009 - 10:38 am

    I wonder if we could suggest a challenge to abusive posters here, which would simply be: when you post, state also which candidate in the election you prefer? Any prevarication might indicate a reluctance on the part of establishment parties’ supporters to out themselves! :-)

    Personally I think that if Craig conducts the office of Member of Parliament like he conducted the office of Ambassador, the constituents of Norwich North will be very well looked after. Not to mention the people who will benefit from the cost savings that could flow from a potentially stopped ID cards project, or the people who would benefit from a radically improved attitude to combatting climate change…

    Critics should read his books if they are in doubt: ‘Catholic Orangemen’ is available on the net for free.

  78. Nulab P. Taker

    21 Jul, 2009 - 10:41 am

    All the way to Norwich, which cost a pretty penny, to find out things aganst Craig, and not a single new substantial piece of dirt? Craigslist, you’re fired. You’ll never be hired as a propaganda agent again!

  79. Abe Rene

    21 Jul, 2009 - 10:45 am

    @ Jon

    An excellent post, comparing Craig’s effectiveness as a diplomat as a strong sign that he will look after his constituents well. No doubt the workers in Norwich will make good use of this point.

  80. Abe Rene

    21 Jul, 2009 - 10:45 am

    @ Jon

    An excellent post, regarding Craig’s effectiveness as a diplomat as a strong sign that he will look after his constituents well. No doubt the workers in Norwich will make good use of this point.

  81. mary

    21 Jul, 2009 - 11:06 am

    There is a ‘thread’ on medialens message board. It is best to click on view all to read through the comments.

    Norwich North By-Election – support Rupert Read – IanS Yesterday, 5:35 pm

    vote craig murray! – luke Yesterday, 6:37 pm

    Likewise! (nm) – fugazi Yesterday, 6:42 pm

    Re: vote craig murray or Rupert Reed? – RobB Yesterday, 7:50 pm

    a GREAT shame they couldn’t have joined forces.. NM – MC Yesterday, 8:12 pm

    Re: a GREAT shame they couldn’t have joined forces.. NM – RobB Today, 9:33 am

    Re: vote craig murray! – Bern Yesterday, 11:34 pm

    Sounds good to me! – luis Yesterday, 7:59 pm

    Oops: Murray sounds good to me! – luis Yesterday, 8:03 pm

    Re: Sounds good to me! – Mr Bombastic Yesterday, 9:43 pm

    The Green Party are not single issue – IanS Today, 11:06 am

    From Alan Partridge to Craig Murray – Andee Today, 5:42 am

    Craig Murray supports lower taxes – IanS Today, 10:36 am

    Re: Craig Murray supports lower taxes – Keith-264 Today, 10:57 am

    Craig Murray supported Rupert Read during the recent European elections – IanS Today, 11:01 am

    View all

  82. anon

    21 Jul, 2009 - 11:17 am

    The big political parties are now run like supermarket chains. They check your loyalty card from time to time to see what you buy, and they stock those products on their shelves, in the case of supermarkets, to make money and in the case of politics, because they want power.

    Gone are the days when Chloe Smith being a city slicker, or Craig following his heart to another marriage, have any relevance at all, at all, at all. We all do the same. People of my generation who followed politics lament the change, by which politics has been reduced to marketing. 75% of the population isn’t interested in political thought. For example this 75% swallow the rubbish from daily papers about too many immigrants without thinking about what they have done to maintain the population of the country.

    The whole system, not just the BBC and other obstacles etc, is designed to limit debate. But there again, when did you last choose to go shopping in your friendly village High Street, because you had a couple of hours to spare, and £40 extra to spend. I use different supermarkets for different things and I buy meat from a specialist butcher. The parties have become a meld, all things to all people, and no benefit to anyone.

    The reason that I haven’t come to Norwich to help Craig’s campaign is firstly that I am flat broke and secondly because Islam states that elections are the wrong system. I believe in decision making by reference to the instructions of an omnipotent, omniscient, loving God, and NOT by the election system.

    My wife comes from a Middle-Eastern country which is about to hold elections. Her dad says she should vote, I say she shouldn’t. Why? Because the ink on her finger when she comes out of the polling booth will be used by the next murderous dictator to justify detaining Muslims in local US jails at the behest of Zionism.

    There are truth speakers in parliament like George Galloway, but am I going to black my finger tip for Marxism? No. The problem this country faces is that 25 years of Thatcherism has created WASTEFUL MATERIALISM, and unprecedented inequalities of wealth at the same time. They voted for Victorian values and that’s what they got. If you vote for Craig, you are going to get debate, but if you want answers, you need Islam.

  83. VamanosBandidos

    21 Jul, 2009 - 11:20 am

    Jon at July 21, 2009 10:38 AM

    Why do you think the “trolls” have been swearing as per the last chapter? (If you have read the Catholic Orangemen, re read the bar and airport departure at the end)

    This is psyops on the cheap, and the trolls are fed the “hot buttons map” to push and undermine the individual concerned. To discern this only checkout the posts of the various “trolls” and see the emergent patterns.

    In this country anyone is free to hold an opinion, so long he/she does not share it with lots of other people. Otherwise, there is a danger of a new consensus emerging, which is just not cricket. The only Freedom brand available; requires adherence to a certain “unwritten” code of conduct from those involved in the business of “representation” of the people, hence the nuanced attacks; “independent, egotistic, busy bodies, bent on wrecking our way of life; threatening our values”.

    The closed shop MP factory, that mints the cookie cutter MP as per the “party/customer” requirements, has been a very successful mode of conduct, sanctioned by the plutocrats whom otherwise may find themselves faced with a real parliament, really bent on representing the people.

  84. Jon

    21 Jul, 2009 - 11:57 am

    @anon (July 21, 2009 11:17 AM)

    Your prose clearly indicates you are intelligent, and yet that sits quite at odds with your view that everyone should convert to Islam. Islam may state many things, but that does not mean you have to believe them all, even as a Muslim; it is even the less the case that everyone else has to believe them.

    There is no “conversion” by which the whole world could agree on a spiritual solution to human problems. Religion requires faith, by definition, so you can’t prove its efficacy to atheists and agnostics, nor can you prove the superiority of one brand of religion over another. Accordingly, this is fine for you, as a personal decision; it is no solution at all for everyone else.

    Your post indicates however that you are indeed capable of determining political problems, such as the impact of Thatcherism and neoliberal economic ideology. I agree that gave rise to inequality, so can we not agree that the solution – even just an intermediate one – is to vote in candidates who oppose that ideology?

    Incidentally – and I don’t mean this rudely – if your wife persists in wishing to vote, and you persist in saying she should not, would you disallow her? I ask because – as someone who takes an active interest in Islamic culture – I witness a discrepancy between Muslims who believe in the inherent fairness of Islam, and others whose beliefs are underscored by either sexism or misogyny.

  85. Jon

    21 Jul, 2009 - 12:14 pm

    @VamanosBandidos – I agree broadly with your views on the limitations of permitted ideas, though I think this is down to people’s inherent conservatism rather than (or at least more than!) dark forces outside of political parties.

    But I’ve not seen any critical posts actually referencing Craig’s books – perhaps you could point me to some. Most of the abusive posts are insufficiently civil for me to engage with, but even the ones that are OK don’t seem to have any information that could only be gleaned from his books.

  86. mary

    21 Jul, 2009 - 12:27 pm

    The News of the World shysters from Wapping are giving evidence to the Culture committee, live on BBC and Sky at the moment. Imagine that Cameroon has tied his party up to the likes of this ex-Editor. The current managing editor is alongside. Quite a lot of licking of dry lips is going on.

  87. dreoilin

    21 Jul, 2009 - 12:34 pm

    Half an hour ago from Sky News:

    Labour candidate in Norwich has suspected swine flu. And Conservatives in the area are saying the election is “too close to call”.

    The juvenile nasty-minded little trolls here are thicker than manure and only half as useful.

    Go Craig!

  88. mary

    21 Jul, 2009 - 12:57 pm

    I sympathize with Ostrowski if he has the non human flu (I refuse to insult the clean and pink animals who are good mothers) but it’s very a convenient get out when NuLiebour come last in the poll.

  89. eddie

    21 Jul, 2009 - 12:58 pm

    Jon, that’s a remarkably polite response to the comments from anon. He says:

    “I believe in decision making by reference to the instructions of an omnipotent, omniscient, loving God, and NOT by the election system”

    That sounds like a wind up to me, but some people must believe such tosh and it is thoroughly depressing. He needs to read Philip Larkin’s High Windows and read up on the Enlightenment. I too would be interested to know if his wife is free to do what she wants.

  90. Jon

    21 Jul, 2009 - 1:09 pm

    @eddie – politeness is usually the best way to deal with people ;-)

    I don’t think it is a wind-up, though. I spoke at length to a representative for Islam4UK when their roadshow came to Birmingham, and the sincerity with which he held his authoritarian views was quite scary. I think my anonymous interlocutor has a similar mindset, though – peculiarly – I think he is a good deal more intelligent.

  91. anticant

    21 Jul, 2009 - 1:27 pm

    Please show me a Muslim who doesn’t adhere to these theocratic views – or if he or she doesn’t, is prepared to speak out against them.

    For saying that they have no place in n open democratic society I was dubbed a “pseudo-liberal bigot” by a Muslim head teacher!

  92. eddie

    21 Jul, 2009 - 1:50 pm

    Jon

    Point about politeness accepted. In my view a God cannot be both omnipotent and loving – power corrupts etc. Anon decries Victorian values and yet seems to relish the values of the middle ages where all decisions and actions are abdicated to a being who is man-made. “God said to Abraham kill me a son” – would he do it I wonder? This mindset is essentially a form of superstition where nothing that we do is ever worthwhile and fate decides all outcomes. It is basically a reactionary mindset that blocks progress, whether its from Islam, Catholicism, Judaism or any other religion.

  93. eddie

    21 Jul, 2009 - 2:05 pm

    Oh, and just to follow Craig’s example I will get my excuses in early – it looks like Labour won’t win on Thursday because their candidate has swine flu. He clearly won’t be able to make the impact that he should have made now that he is in bed. Shame, he would have made a good MP.

    (note: this is a joke, for the benefit of any of the humourless types on here)

  94. George Dutton

    21 Jul, 2009 - 8:21 pm

    “First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win”

    Mahatma Gandhi (1869-1948)

    Came across this…

    http://tinyurl.com/m5kfn4

  95. Craiglist

    21 Jul, 2009 - 8:21 pm

    Swine flu is a NuLab conspiracy and they will pin it on Craig!

  96. anticant

    21 Jul, 2009 - 9:15 pm

    Swine ‘flu. of course, will give Gordon Brown another excellent reason for not holding an autumn general election even if his party urge him to, knowing that most of the voters wanted one this summer.

  97. anon

    21 Jul, 2009 - 9:22 pm

    Jon

    Democracy has been used in the Middle-East by the Bush/Blair confederacy as a substitute for legitimacy for their colonial wars, and Hamas have been denied power in spite of winning an election.

    My giving advice to my wife about participating in an election is just that,advice. Unlike the brute political force being exercised by Western powers to prevent Gaza from receiving the aid which the world promised six months ago.

    The bullies at the centre of that scandal are Blair and Brown. I hope voters in Norwich North make their protest vote against them, if only because of the way Ian Gibson was treated, by voting for Craig on the 23rd.

  98. mary

    21 Jul, 2009 - 9:28 pm

    Hope George Galloway gives them all a rollicking on Question Time this Thursday. Perhaps he will mention the BBC’s exclusion of Craig in their coverage of his campaign.

    ‘David Dimbleby will be joined in Norwich by Geoff Hoon MP, Baroness Warsi, Baroness Williams, Clive James and George Galloway MP.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/question_time/default.stm

    One is a war criminal, two are has-beens and Warsi is Cameroon’s Shadow Minister for Community Cohesion and Social Action whatever that means.

  99. Anonymous

    21 Jul, 2009 - 9:43 pm

    New interview with Craig about standing in Norwich North.

    Part 1:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXWBVbRLwoU

    And comment on Afghanistan from candidates Q & A

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3FGskKMWAM

  100. Dick the Prick

    21 Jul, 2009 - 9:52 pm

    Word up dude. Couldn’t get your website at work (Tory) and may investigate – bang out of order. Love to fam and as always to your good self.

  101. M

    21 Jul, 2009 - 10:17 pm

    Craig, couldn’t access your site for part of today either – both at work and earlier this evening at home.

    Just to let you know…. xx

  102. avatar singh

    21 Jul, 2009 - 10:19 pm

    ‘David Dimbleby is a pimp typical of BBc types who whore for the powerful and corrupt. he is also a war criminal and should be kept and tried for war crimes just like tony blair should be-atleast get that tony blair snacthcded from strteet to face war crime charge.

  103. Jon

    22 Jul, 2009 - 12:18 am

    Yep, website was down for a few hours yesterday, hence the gap in commenting 2pm-8pm. Just went down when I was typing this (frantic copy-n-paste):

    @anticant – I think that there *can be* a compatibility between moderate Islam and democratic values. The only trouble is that when moderates exist, they do not fit well with the media world-view, and so are often poorly reported.

    It was a coincidence that some weeks after speaking to Islam4UK, I spoke to representatives of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Association in Warwickshire. Their leader, and their representatives, are perfectly prepared to condemn theocracy, violent extremism and heavily restricted freedoms of speech. From what I can tell they have a large annual jamboree in the UK every year, to which MPs and dignitaries come, and they have a large membership, but they still receive little or no media coverage.

    Have a google on “ahmadiyya muslim association” for more info, or see the link below.

  104. KevinB

    22 Jul, 2009 - 12:53 am

    eddie,

    Quote:”…but some people must believe such tosh and it is thoroughly depressing. He needs to read Philip Larkin’s High Windows and read up on the Enlightenment.”

    Might it be possible that some good people lead more loving and constructive lives than you do by living ‘this tosh’.

    Also, our modern culture is a product of ‘The Enlightenment’ and this is a disaster for everybody, in my opinion.

    The reason being that the enlightenment conspired to displace ‘God’ with reason in the public consciousness. The ideology behind it was Masonic. This is clear to se in the way that power was shifted irrevocably into the hands of the self-serving men who would dictate to humanity at large what is actually reasonable.

    Not that the representatives of God (the church being in reality a worldly power) were that much better…..but at least they couldn’t invent any old idea as being morally good. There was the teaching of Christ to limit any assault they might have made on the collective consciousness.

    For example the murder of the unborn is now promoted and believed to be, on balance, morally justifiable (i.e. a good thing) by millions of people today.

    A Christian would normally agree that once the right to life is wiped away any other wickedness becomes possible.

    The development of literally millions of babies being aborted in the west could never take place within a truly Christian society.

    We are close to realising the full fruits of the intensively promoted and diabolical masonic rationalism today.

    We have a world run by bankers and their infernal think-tanks, busily socially engineering the entire human race into a state of conditioned helplessness.

    The parasite has taken over our brains, all the better to fleece us ad infinitum.

    …..and with the commandments of God finally completely swept aside, we will no doubt end up eating each other and enjoying fulfilling sexual relationships with farmyard animals.

    Is this going too far? How do you think societal limits should be set, eddie?

    Nearly every home in Britain has already got vile porn channels available at the touch of a button, ‘snuff’ video games to divert your children, any amount of war propaganda, news services dense with lying and more subtly deceiving propaganda, shedloads of witless ‘circuses’ to distract the masses, many of whom can barely think at all anyway….

    ……but, when push comes to shove….if the sh*t hits the fan…..they’ll handle a gun as well as anyone….and do precisely what our ‘sons and daughters of the enlightenment’ order them to do with it. Probably good for establishment hangers-on like you but definitely bad for anyone with an independent or unco-operative turn of mind.

  105. ingo

    22 Jul, 2009 - 1:18 am

    Luke, Thanks for your support. Many Greens have realised that Craig is the real thing, no offence to Rupert, but he should have taken a rest and consolidated his fervour after being defeated in the European elections.

    His mock fighting with candidates, challenging them to declare their allegiances to king Rupert is to a degree immature.

    Rupert is a colluding member of the UCU noLabour apparatschiks. He took part in a secretive and secluded hustings, championed by the BBC, excluding a fellow mwmber of the UCU, an activist who stood up and spoke at many of their actions, Rupert as a fellow academic will have to live with it.

    The education speed-freaking event at the Norman centre, excluding Craig and educationalist and rector of a university to be exact, was an excample of the preparedness to placate one’s principles to the colluding sleaze media.

    Whatever has the Green party done for Norwich apart from recycling badly? Is that enough enough to qualify oneself and become an MP?

    The BBC is scared for their existenceunder the Conservative party, they do not control the election broadcast anymore , Craig Murray’s campaign has changed all that in future,let your mates know, this man has the qualities we need, a do’er and independent thinker, not a party lackey or some highflying Westminster inside mawther with inconsequential experience.

    My heartfelt apologies to Chris Ostrowski and his swine flu attack, no more kissing of babies for my fellow allumni, I hope he gets better soon.

    So lets hear it now for the voters of Norwich North.

    DO DIFFERENT. Put an Honest Man into Parliament.

  106. Craigslist

    22 Jul, 2009 - 1:40 am

    Ingo, you moron. If you read what Luke wrote, you would realise that he was actually telling you to can it with all your insults against Read. Not giving support to him. And Craig is not a member of the UCU as he is not a teacher or an academic. So get lost with your betrayal rubbish.

    “The real thing”? Let me tell you what Greens now think of Craig. They will never forget that Craig smeared and lied about the Green candidate. None of the other parties gave a shit about Craig Murray. Even only a few Greens gave a shit about Craig Murray. The only audience Murray will ever have again is sad internet-based retards like you.

    Craig Murray is dead to the Green Party or anyone else on the left. His antics in attacking and trying to smear a progressive candidate will never be forgotten, and have tarnished his record. Honest man? You cunt.

    Let us not think for a second that Craig would protest and not go to an event if any of the other candidates were excluded. Why not cry over Bill Baggs, or whatever one of the other two independents is called? That’s right. You are acting like spoilt little two-year olds, and hitting out at anyone you can reach. Blaming all your failures on someone else. Hmm, reminds me of someone. Oh yeah, Hitler blaming the Jews after WW1. I forgot – you think Jews run a worldwide conspiracy, owning all the banks and the media companies.

    The saddest thing is if you lose your deposit or come 8th you have a long list of other people to blame it on.

    ZaNuLieBour

    Their chums UCU

    Their dogs the BBC

    UKIP (who will do better than CM)

    The Green Party

    The Tories

    The BNP

    Monster Raving Loony Party

    The Evil US

    Craig’s ex-wife

    Take your pick. After Norwich North, Craig is finished.

  107. Craigslist

    22 Jul, 2009 - 1:41 am

    And Kevin… jeez, abortion is the murder of millions of unborn?

    Get back into your cave, you neonazi fruitloop.

  108. ingo

    22 Jul, 2009 - 2:24 am

    sorry about my typos, too late for niceties,make it up.

  109. dreoilin

    22 Jul, 2009 - 2:26 am

    “jeez, abortion is the murder of millions of unborn?

    Get back into your cave, you neonazi fruitloop.”

    You better deal with your fury, ‘Craigslist’. It’s bursting off the page. See a therapist, for your own sake. If Kevin is a “fruitloop” for opposing abortion, there are many millions like him — including people like me, who are atheist and have no religious agenda. Calm down for pete’s sake or you’ll have a heart attack. Drink some camomile tea, or put some lavender under your pillow. Your blood pressure must be through the roof.

  110. Mark Wood

    22 Jul, 2009 - 2:35 am

    Wow, I have just read all the posts on this page, even though I should have been in bed ages ago and one thing really sticks in my mind,if someone thought you ineffectual or even crazy, why would they spend so much energy and time trying to discredit you? After all life is finite and only a fool would waste it so.

    Crag, the only conclusion common sense could possibly advocate is that what you say has some truth and in fact, these actions the more nasty they become do nothing but strengthen your case no end.

  111. anon

    22 Jul, 2009 - 5:57 am

    Best not to call Craig, Crag. You’ll give him ideas about auditioning to be the next James Bond. And he’ll be too busy being Norwich North’s M.P. for that.

  112. mary

    22 Jul, 2009 - 7:05 am

    They are laughing in our faces with Straw having the most fun.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8161912.stm

  113. George Dutton

    22 Jul, 2009 - 8:34 am

    “There should be a place in Europe for Tony Blair”…

    http://tinyurl.com/p29x2j

  114. Bloggers4UKIP

    22 Jul, 2009 - 8:35 am

    I’ve had the same response from the BBC after complaining about them leaving Glenn Tingle out of their election programmes.

  115. KevinB

    22 Jul, 2009 - 9:28 am

    Craigslist,

    So being against abortion makes a person a Nazi and a cave-dweller. Logical.

    While I have got the attention of a member of the civilised world, can you explain me how mothers being educated to believe that it is OK to kill their unborn children is a good thing?

  116. Jon

    22 Jul, 2009 - 9:33 am

    Isn’t perspective a funny thing? On the one hand, Craig’s campaign has been sufficiently powerful to persuade volunteers from all over the UK, and from several countries overseas, all of whom were convinced that Craig is, indeed, an honest man.

    On the other hand, we have internet crazies waging a furious electronic campaign against Craig’s candidacy, determined to persuade everyone that the whole thing is a nasty charade. Where people do that, they’ll have a hard time battling against the basic facts, which are that: Craig gave up a lucrative career over a major point of honesty. He has also been wonderfully outspoken – uncontrolled by niceties or party whips – on the things that matter (the needless deaths in Afghanistan, the waste of money that are ID cards and Trident II, the fraudulence of the banking bailouts, and noting the widespread refusal to let casino banking go bust). The very interface we use to discuss things with Craig – this blog – is honest too, as people can post (nearly) what they want.

    “Craigslist” et al are welcome to prefer the Green if they wish. Although, given the apoplexy and pending heart attack, I wonder if the MRLP would be a better fit?

    Anyway, keep it civil, folks. This is a campaign that can be won without supporters on all sides resorting to abuse. It’s about the policies and the capability, and my humble analysis is that Craig has both in spades.

  117. JimmyGiro

    22 Jul, 2009 - 9:39 am

    @ Craigslist at July 22, 2009 1:40 AM

    The trouble with you greens is that you have plenty of veg, but no meat.

    You expect people to regard you as precious because you are generous with other peoples’ valuable time and money.

    You have all the wisdom to know the ecological problems and answers, yet despite your numbers and finances, you singularly fail to generate solutions yourselves.

    Just as Sinn Fein is the electable face of the IRA, so the ‘Green Party’ is the stalking horse of Greenpeace.

    Electing the greens would be an expensive political experiment in the object lesson of ‘I told you so’.

    The ecology of tomorrow needs the pragmatism of science, engineering, and industry; it does not need the windy arrogance of the sanctimonious greens.

  118. Jon

    22 Jul, 2009 - 9:53 am

    @KevinB: I would say that both sides have their extreme views! I don’t think that anti-abortionists are necessarily neo-nazis, but on the other hand I don’t think that there is a moral equivalence between abortion and murder either. Both sides try to claim the moral high ground, but as with so many things, the discussion is perhaps best conducted without emotional outbursts.

    However such a discussion would be wildly off topic for this thread, so could you put a post on your blog? If you do so, pop the link here and I will respond.

  119. M

    22 Jul, 2009 - 9:57 am

    Sad to see Craig supporters fight with Green supporters. I’m torn on this one – great shame they couldn’t have worked together. What’s the use in progressives standing against each other when we’re up against so much?

    As for the abortion issue, it makes my blood run cold to hear a discussion about the rights and wrongs of what a woman chooses to do with her body.

    Scratch the surface of someone who opposes abortion with such vigour and there’s a misogynist lurking who wishes to keep women in their place. If men could get pregnant it wouldn’t be an issue – at all.

    So keep your opinins about what I should and shouldn’t do with my body to yourself – thanks.

  120. mary

    22 Jul, 2009 - 10:22 am

    This letter has been published in the Morning Star today, in support of Craig and noting the media’s airbrushing of his campaign. There is a live link within it to Craig’s website.

    http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/index.php/letters/lend_our_support_to_murray_in_norwich_by_election

  121. Abe Rene

    22 Jul, 2009 - 10:30 am

    Last day, forget the trolls and talk to voters. Good luck!

  122. M

    22 Jul, 2009 - 10:52 am

    I will be interested to see the combined Craig + Greens vote. Not from a hostile ‘you split the vote’ perspective but from a ‘look what we could have done if we had worked together’ perspective, with a view TO working together from here on.

    If we are serious about fighting back, it’s the only way. Let’s unite on the main issues and we can work through the minor disagreements at a later stage. If we really care, we will unite, no matter WHAT has gone on in the past – differences and egos must be left at the door if we are to acheive something better than this incredibly fucked up world we are currently living in.

    Good luck tomorrow Craig. xx

  123. mary

    22 Jul, 2009 - 12:22 pm

    A general election will be held within 10 months. Will Craig give it another go then if unelected this time thinking the unthinkable.

  124. Craig

    22 Jul, 2009 - 12:49 pm

    anon -

    Craig and crag are of course the same word (as in Ailsa Craig, which golf lovers have been looking at the whole week).

    Other than poke some gentle fun at Rupert for wearing a tie, I don’t think in any sense I have been attacking him. I am interested to know what I have said about him which somebody considers a lie.

    I have a great deal of time for Rupert. I wrote to the local paper to defend him against a ridiculous attack on his views over terrorism. If we had a decent voting system, I would urge people to give Rupert their second preferences.

  125. KevinB

    22 Jul, 2009 - 2:00 pm

    Jon,

    Fair comment

  126. M.Wood

    23 Jul, 2009 - 12:54 am

    Craig and crag

    Sorry about the typo’s

    That’s what happens when you type very late at night with eyelids hitting the floor:)

    I hate style over content, it is what one says that counts, plus I have rubbed of most of the letters on my keyboard protesting at this New Labour Stalinist brave new world we all live in .

    OK then, best of luck.

    Mark

  127. George Dutton

    23 Jul, 2009 - 12:22 pm

    Just came across this.

    “The Death Penalty for a Hate-Crime?”…

    http://tinyurl.com/lj63go

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