Totalitarian Dictatorships Are Very Tidy

by craig on July 12, 2009 12:06 pm in Norwich North!, The Election

Totalitarian dictatorships are generally extremely tidy places. In Uzbekistan, even with major massacres, the streets are sluiced down within a few hours, bullet holes filled in, walls repainted, new flower beds instantly in bloom. There is never any litter, nothing out of place.

Democraries are by contrast messy. Members of the ultra-boring blogging tendency (Iain Dale, Norfolk Blogger) etc have been attacking my campaign for fly-posting. That conjures up unpleasant images of derelict buildings and bridges with scores of tatty mouldering posters pasted to them, for months.

We have been attaching posters, on hardboard, with cable ties, to lamp-posts and other street furniture in the constituency. We have been careful to avoid traffic lights and not to cause obstruction. We will remove all trace after the election. This is the common practice in elections over much of the UK.

The political parties, who don’t want people to be reminded of a wide range of democratic choice, are pretending to be outraged. The council have been going around scrupulously removing my posters. Interestingly, they have not been removing the numerous other posters on street furniture in Norwich, including scores for something called a “Bang Fest”. I don’t know what that is, but it sounds fun.

There are occasions where my poster and another poster are on the same lamp-post. They have only removed mine. The peculiar explanation they give is that mine are the only ones they have received complaints about.

Anyway, much better to keep the lamp-posts free from temporary posters, than have an outbreak of political expression outwith the political parties. Where might that end?

98 Comments

  1. Parasite

    12 Jul, 2009 - 12:50 pm

    What on earth are you on about? This is mad paranoia. Are you seriously suggesting the complaints about your fly posting are equivalent to the Uzbek dictatorship?

    Fly posting may be acceptable in Scotland, but not in most of England. We used to have it in Birmingham, then it got stupidly out of hand in the Hodge Hill election in 04, so now it isn’t allowed. You want a poster up, find people who’ll put them in their windows. Simple.

  2. Leo Davidson

    12 Jul, 2009 - 1:13 pm

    Parasite, Why are they removing his posters but not other ones right next to them?

  3. Bella

    12 Jul, 2009 - 1:32 pm

    Bog off parasite – we know what you’re up to.

    Craig – keep putting the posters up, and you should also do some banner drops. They are really effective, especially in a blackout.

    I know all these attacks are draining but keep going. We know what they’re doing and the main thing is not to get too stressed. They want you to be stressed.

  4. Craig

    12 Jul, 2009 - 1:33 pm

    Parasite

    “Are you seriously suggesting the complaints about your fly posting are equivalent to the Uzbek dictatorship?”

    No. I am suggesting there is a continuum. and an obsession with order and disinterest in democracy tend to run together.

  5. dreoilin

    12 Jul, 2009 - 1:41 pm

    “This is the common practice in elections over much of the UK.”

    –Craig

    (And Ireland, where your described method is actually the one laid down in the regulations!)

    “The peculiar explanation they give is that mine are the only ones they have received complaints about.”

    –Craig

    Easy for your opponents to organise. They must be *very* worried about you.

  6. Iain Dale

    12 Jul, 2009 - 1:48 pm

    Fly posting is illegal. All the other parties persuade ordinary voters to put posters up in their gardens or in their windows. Why don’t you? Ah, I see…

    Get over yourself.

  7. dreoilin

    12 Jul, 2009 - 1:56 pm

    BTW, for my money, ‘Parasite’ is eddie.

    He disappeared as the one and came back as the other.

  8. Ian Grey

    12 Jul, 2009 - 1:59 pm

    Around Leeds, we are not supposed to put up posters on lamp posts & street furniture, although I gathered from the electoral commission that it is up to individual Councils back then. It is permissible in Leeds to affix specified signage on grass verges with certain constraints on where (i.e. not too close to junctions).

    Private property is the normal approach- that and telegraph poles which belong to BT.

    I sought permission from BT to use their telegraph poles for a Parish election. In the meantime, I put the signs up, got elected and had them taken down again before they even acknowledged the request and passed it on internally. I never did hear back from them!

    An independent stood as an MP at the last General Election and ran into several bureaucratic brick walls along the way. His conclusion was that the system is stacked against the little guy.

  9. Andrew Whatmough

    12 Jul, 2009 - 2:24 pm

    Use a projector to display your poster at prominent sites. You could do it from the back of a van with a laptop and a power inverter..

  10. HappyClappy

    12 Jul, 2009 - 2:28 pm

    Craig,

    Why do you acknowledge this cretin with multiple identities and a singular trend of whine?

    Let the parasitic troll whine, and hang in the air, having been paid for its cut and paste efforts, on a; per word basis.

    So far as Ian Mouthpiece Dale is concerned, he apparently having exhausted his role as the Grammar Police, is now engaged in Hall Monitor and Poster Prefect mode.

    PS. How can anyone be thinking conservative is beyond me? Those poor misguided souls ought to be afforded some measure of psychiatric care for this most common malady, which goes largely unnoticed, and unattended in these days of tight budgets, and shortages of funds.

  11. ingo

    12 Jul, 2009 - 2:45 pm

    Ian Just have a ride out to Drayton on the Drayton road. As you leave the junction with the outer ring road, immediately to your left is an entrance to an industrial estate and amongst all the ad sheets for the companies nestles a lib dem orange, mingling with commercial ads on a council verge.

    Now go and take a photo of it and make a big splash in your blog, there’s a good boy.

    Flyposting is happening all over, we only have to lok at the amount of conservative leafelts thrown away by disgusted voters during Cloe’s market walkabout on Sat., thronged by Blue bodyguards as if she caould not walk on her own for fear of being castigated.

    Far from being friendly she stopped some ten yards short of my calling her a city slicker and stooge of a party, groomed to join the other careerists and self centred corrupt party politicians. Her reactions were that of a coward, just as in all the other hustings were she avoided a proper debate because she was never challenged on education, because the only expert on it was banned from the UCLu debate, she colluded with that exclusion, giving the public a false imp-ression of the debate, a phoney debate if there ever was one.

    I think you best get over that, because flyposting is nothing compared with fraud and outright criminal behaviour by MP’s, many of them multi millionare conservatives like James Clappison, MP for Hertsmere, owner of 24 houses who claimed 100.000 on re decorations and gardening from the taxpayer, people without any integrity or shame.

    Now go and blog about Aprils illegal flyposting why don’t you.

  12. SJB

    12 Jul, 2009 - 3:19 pm

    “In general, the consent of the local planning authority or of the Secretary of State must be obtained before

    any advertisement may be displayed. However, an advertisement relating specifically to a pending

    parliamentary, European parliamentary or local government election does not require either express

    consent or deemed consent provided that the advertisement is removed within 14 days after the close of

    the poll in the election to which it relates.” -

    Halbury’s Laws of England, Volume 15(4) (2007 Reissue) Paras 344-907)/5. Procedure for Conducting Elections/(3) The Election Campaign/(vii) Publicity at Elections/338. Control of advertisements.

  13. SJB

    12 Jul, 2009 - 3:34 pm

    Also, see Class F of reg.3(2) of The Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) Regulations 1992

    http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1992/Uksi_19920666_en_8.htm#IDAQ5O1

    Incidentally, have you considered using a balloon (see Class A of reg. 3(2))? If you anchor it in your campaign HQ the council risk committing the tort of trespass if they enter your premises to remove it.

  14. johnny anomaly

    12 Jul, 2009 - 3:37 pm

    Zap!! Pow!!! Asbo-ed by God’s Own Blogger!

  15. Marie

    12 Jul, 2009 - 4:36 pm

    Telling the way Iain Dale cares more about ‘illegal’ flyposting but doesn’t much give a damn about illegal wars that kill hundreds of thousands of people and illegal torture methods.

    Says it all about Tories and their fucked up robotic mentality. But they will never see it – we should probably pity these people and their disturbing lack of humanity.

  16. Eric

    12 Jul, 2009 - 4:44 pm

    Keep the lamp posts uncluttered please we’ll need plenty of space for the 646 bodies to swing !!

  17. Rob Speare

    12 Jul, 2009 - 6:12 pm

    Ingo is Dreolin is Bella is Craig, and I claim my £5!

  18. Tashkent

    12 Jul, 2009 - 7:28 pm

    UK will be worse than Uzbekistan soon, you will see. I can see some signs of it.

  19. eddie

    12 Jul, 2009 - 8:13 pm

    I am not parasite and the fact that you think that anyone other than me can have similar opinions just shows how stupid and paranoid you all are. We are mainstream, you are in your own little troofer/paranoid world. Craig WILL NOT WIN. Get over it.

  20. Polo

    12 Jul, 2009 - 8:55 pm

    @dreoilin

    Well said.

    Re Irish Flyposting Regulations:

    While the regulations are explicit and sensible the Government party seems to be immune from follow up.

    http://www.photopol.com/elect2007/index.html

    Did we inherit this from the British or did we make it up ourselves? As a nationalist, I think the latter.

  21. david

    12 Jul, 2009 - 9:15 pm

    “I am not parasite”

    eddie you left out an indefinite article there. You and your ilk are all parasites. That is the very issue that brought about this by-election.

    As for the idea of you being mainstream… Ha…! Instead, maybe adopt the image of being a little eddie-current, going round a vortex near the plug-hole.

  22. Strategist

    12 Jul, 2009 - 9:18 pm

    Obviously it’s not the equivalent, but there is certainly, as Craig puts it, a continuum linking the mindset of an apparatchik of the Karimov regime and the UCU petty bureaucrats who excluded Craig from the education hustings.

    It’s an instinctive desire to suck up to power, to impose orthodoxy and place an arbitrary limit on what is allowed to be said, and then enforce it with all the banal deadening bureaucratic machinery and stubborn bloodymindedness.

    There is no question that the UCU leadership would be quite happy and loyal secret police were they Uzbeks. They disgrace the academic ideal, and they disgrace their union members.

  23. Ruth

    12 Jul, 2009 - 10:20 pm

    ‘There is no question that the UCU leadership would be quite happy and loyal secret police were they Uzbeks.’

    Perhaps they’re not quite secret police but I suspect they are lackeys of the intelligence service ever willing to please, ever willing to stay on the ‘right side’ to ensure their status is maintained or furthered.

    These kind of people, if you can call them people, are the greatest threat to our freedom.

  24. andymcdee

    12 Jul, 2009 - 10:28 pm

    eddie

    If there was a general election tomorrow – how would you vote.

  25. dreoilin

    12 Jul, 2009 - 11:04 pm

    “I am not parasite and the fact that you think

    that anyone other than me … etc etc”

    –eddie

    Who cares. Really.

    You’re just a bit of craic.

  26. dreoilin

    12 Jul, 2009 - 11:28 pm

    “Did we inherit this from the British or did we make it up ourselves?”–Polo

    No idea. But your pic of Bertie and Tayto is funny. :)

  27. subrosa

    13 Jul, 2009 - 1:06 am

    Posted by: HappyClappy at July 12, 2009 2:28 PM

    Delightful post HappyClappy and I shall go to bed smiling.

    I see you’ve got Mr Dale’s tie in a tight knot Craig. Not many can do that you know – well done! I never realise he could be so acerbic.

    We permit posters on lamposts etc during elections here in Scotland, but then perhaps we’re a more tolerant lot.

    Methinks your CD has kind of erm – annoyed some Craig. I’m pleased.

  28. eddie

    13 Jul, 2009 - 8:18 am

    I would vote Labour of course. The alternative is a Tory government. Real politics is about schools and hospitals and public services, not all this shit.

  29. Stuart

    13 Jul, 2009 - 9:37 am

    eddie

    Do you honestly think that labour has done anything for schools and hospitals?

    All we have is layers of Bureaucracy and little men and women in suits, consultants (not the medical kind) and MRSA. And as for schools, we have got a bunch of brainwashed politicaly correct yes men like you eddie that cant see the truth if it kicks you in the ass.

    You are a very “little man” eddie. If you cant see that schools, services etc are services that the state administers on our behalf. This blog and fighting for freedom and fairness is real politics. You just show how screwed up labour is when you play politics with sick people and children.

  30. eddie

    13 Jul, 2009 - 10:41 am

    Stuart – you are an idiot who knows zilch about schools and hospitals. Get lost.

  31. Richard

    13 Jul, 2009 - 11:56 am

    Eddie is Derek Draper and no, I don’t want to buy you a drink or lend you a fiver.

  32. Jon

    13 Jul, 2009 - 12:31 pm

    Comments from Iain Dale, Parasite et al demonstrate that when it comes to trivial things like fly-posting, suddenly it is of high importance. “Quick”, say the powers that be, “let’s tidy up all this ‘independent’ nonsense, all this uncontrollable and insolent pockets of democracy!”

    The idea that oscillating between the two poles of the same elite will bring about substantial change is getting tired, as is the media’s insistence that it can work, and as is the electorate’s refusal to recognise it.

    @eddie – please don’t take this an attack that requires a counter-attack, but my long-term view of your input is that it is getting increasingly mean-spirited. Craig has even supported you being here, but you still pour water on his campaign, and in an unpleasant fashion too. You are welcome to stick to the Labour party, as are people here to criticise you for doing so, but my view is that you could do it with more grace, regardless of whether you think supporters here have been abusive towards you in the past. You know that your general message here will be unpopular, so I’d suggest the onus is upon you to present your case without carelessly or deliberately offending people.

  33. eddie

    13 Jul, 2009 - 12:57 pm

    Fair comment. But I am happy to respond robsutly to people who abuse me or who spout nonsense. As I’ve said before any offensive comments from me are usually in response to ten-fold of abuse on the other side, often unprovoked I would add.

  34. Rob Lewis

    13 Jul, 2009 - 1:38 pm

    Eddie: “Real politics is about schools and hospitals and public services, not all this shit.”

    It’s not the first time I’ve heard that argument from a Labour supporter. I’m a bit sick of it now. Tell us how well our schools and hospitals and public services have fared under a Labour government, Eddie. And when you say “all this shit”, I suspect you mean “all this dissent”. Your party no longer has any ideology to subscribe to Eddie, let alone any values to dissent from. It has the political principles of a cat. In fact, today’s labour party has ceased to exist on any meanginful political level, other than in the expedient sense that it is currently in power. “All this shit” is what politics looks like when democracy rushes into a vacuum. You can’t even argue that Labour is a safe pair of hands any more. Its membership is under 190,000, its accounts are in the red, and it is already in hock to a league of different organisations and individuals who care nothing for schools, hospitals or public services. Even internally it is comprimised by power struggles, and it has overseen the tarnishing of the entire political system. A good chunk of the current cabinet are entirely unelected. Labour – in its current incarnation – is over Eddie.

    And let me tell you, that’s not the fault of Britain’s independent parliamentary candidates. And the prolonged, deepening recession isn’t going to be either.

    Keep up, mun.

  35. Chris

    13 Jul, 2009 - 2:06 pm

    I have direct experience of this government and schools, and I’m sorry eddie, but it isn’t good. One or two decent initiatives, I grant you, but generally nothing but a wasteful layering of red tape and ridiculous target setting and form filling.

    The benefits to the children have been minimal and if education isn’t about kids it’s about nothing.

    Schools now compete with each other to spin results, inspection reports etc, as they adopt the perceived wishes of their political masters. It’s all fur coat and no knickers. Sad really…. as 1997 really did present a once in a lifetime opportunity, the waste of which will be viewed dimly through the prism of history. New Labour should be buried in an unmarked grave and forgotten.

  36. dreoilin

    13 Jul, 2009 - 2:18 pm

    “usually in response to ten-fold of abuse on the other side, often unprovoked I would add.”

    –eddie

    eddie, on the previous thread I asked you where I had abused you. You have responded that I called you a ‘troll’. Here is Wiki’s definition of a troll:

    “In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts *controversial, inflammatory*, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or collaborative content community, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional or disciplinary response”

    I submit that you fit that description.

    You did not answer my simple question “Have you read Murder in Samarkand?” but you went on to say,

    “I am happy to engage in debate but no one seems willing. Don’t worry I’m used to it. You and your friends can’t seem to argue, you just abuse people.”

    On this thread, you’ve recently posted, “Stuart – you are an idiot who knows zilch about schools and hospitals. Get lost.”

    If this is debate or argument, and without abuse, I fail to see it. I also fail to see why you were fooling around with name, if it wasn’t to provoke. Which by definition makes you a troll.

  37. Veritas

    13 Jul, 2009 - 2:20 pm

    Oh no. The censorious and cloyingly sanctimonious Iain Dale has appeared.

    When he’s not removing posts that point out the Kentish origins of “Norfolk girl through and through”, Chloe Smith, he’s happy to restrict the polling of other candidates. He’s certainly more MSM than blogger.

    The simple truth is that Craig is by far the better candidiate, a man of immense experience or a twenty something careerist lobby fodderette with an inane line in PRspeak, you decide.

  38. dreoilin

    13 Jul, 2009 - 2:27 pm

    Correction:

    ‘fooling around with my name’

  39. eddie

    13 Jul, 2009 - 3:32 pm

    Dreolin

    Perhaps you can’t understand that that definition makes almost everyone on this board a troll because 90% of the posters use language that is “inflammatory” or “provoking” to me and anyone who dares to express a different opinion. Doh, back to the drawing board perhaps? If you and others seriously want this message board to be a place where everyone agrees with each other then I will sod off, but closed minds are rather unhealthy don’t you think? As an Irish person you should know that more than most. Of course it is a lazy option to throw “troll” at anyone who disagrees with you. And no, I haven’t read the book and don’t intend to. I would no more read it than I would waste time reading about all the troofer stuff that infests this site. Unless of course you can persuade me of its merits, briefly (you see how open minded I am).

    Rob thanks for that rant, but what party do you belong to and are they are a serious contender for government? If not, then your words are about as meaningless as a fart in the desert. It is probably your powerlessness that makes you so angry, but of course it is easy to snipe and whinge from the sidelines – much harder to get involved. Labour is a mass movement, with hundreds of MPs and thousands of councillors and deep roots in the trade union movement so your description is just silly. My sister and a good friend are both headteachers so I know a little about the subject. Yes red tape is a problem, but the education system is miles better than it was twenty years ago. From the Labour Party website and if you feel that any of these facts are wrong then please tell me the truth because I would like to be put right. And also tell me whether a tory governement would have done the same, because that is the only alternative.

    Labour has doubled the amount spent per pupil since 1997 from £2,900 to over £5,850 today.

    Labour has delivered over 39,000 more teachers and 174,000 more teaching assistants than in 1997. This investment has enabled 100,000 more 11 year olds to master literacy and 93,000 more to master numeracy since 1997. Today, 81 per cent of 11 year olds reach the expected level in English and 78 per cent in Maths.

    Labour has seen 470,000 more young people gain five or more good GCSEs. The proportion of young people achieving five or more good GCSEs is up by over 15 per cent since 1997.

    Over 1,100 new schools have been rebuilt or newly built. Labour is committed to rebuilding or refurbishing every secondary school and half of all primary schools in the coming years.

  40. Abe Rene

    13 Jul, 2009 - 3:42 pm

    New Labour policy on education is a mess. We have the ill-conceived AS and A2 exams replacing the old A levels, and which are no longer a gold standard. We have the lunatic aim of getting 50% of adults to have university degrees. Guess what such degrees will be worth in a recession, with masses of unemployed graduates, deeply in debt and blaming guess which party for their predicament.

    Health care is going downhill: instead of more doctors and nurses, we have more highly paid and useless managers with their obsession with targets creating a corrupt culture of dishonesty (exactly as Dame Rimington, ex-head of MI5 foresaw) and patients exploited when making phone calls.

    One good reason for voters not to stay at home : this is the only chance you’ve got to punish New Labour and rubbish the whole concept of misbegotten public-private partnerships.

    But whom to vote for? In Norwich North, Craig has my blessing as one who will exert a good influence in parliament. But elsewhere? Remove the lunatics, extremists and New Labour, and then make your choice!

  41. SJB

    13 Jul, 2009 - 5:06 pm

    Eddie, I think you may be suffering from anhedonia. You seem to be fixated that Craig must not do well in the by-election. Do you look at life in zero-sum terms, I wonder? I.e. if someone else does well then in relative terms you consider your own position must therefore have diminished. Your comment to dreolin (“As an Irish person …”) makes me wonder whether you served in NI. In addition, your projection bias (“It is probably your powerlessness that makes you so angry …”) raise a query whether you may be experiencing a clinical depressive episode. There is less stigma now attached to sufferers (Alistair Campbell is a good example). The British Legion have campaigned for years on behalf of the many former soldiers who later develop mental health problems.

  42. anticant

    13 Jul, 2009 - 5:18 pm

    rob lewis – what have you got against cats? They are loyal, dependable, affectionate friends and have far more intelligence and common sense than most human beings (especially politicians).

  43. Duncan

    13 Jul, 2009 - 6:06 pm

    Somebody step in and stop these armchair saviours and ask Murray why his business contacts were at this years Bilderberg fest, and are also members of the International Business Leader Forum, none of who have suffered financially in the recession, quite the opposite, and are currently working on the destruction of the rainforests and the uncontacted tribes in the region of Peru and Brasil, not to mention Gaza’s offshore gas field…did I say pro Israel? wouldn’t dream of it.

    Common Purpose methinks, or dare I say…..? not yet Mr Murray, but we’re watching you, whoever your contacts are.

  44. eddie

    13 Jul, 2009 - 6:35 pm

    SJB thanks for the ad hominem abuse. You prove my point very well. No debate, just abuse. But I have come across a new word thanks to you. For the record I have not served in NI although I was once a corporal in the ccf and have a marksman certificate for .303 rifle shooting – perhaps that will assist your amateur pschoanalysis? I am not trying to disparage Craig, just to point out that his chances of winning are about zero, it’s a factual statement not a wish, although he is already setting out the reasons why he won’t win, so that when he doesn’t he can claim it was all an establishment fix.

  45. Rob Lewis

    13 Jul, 2009 - 6:37 pm

    @Eddie: As for my ranting, you are more than welcome. Thank you for taking it all on the chin and responding sensibly. Your point about the importance of disagreement is entirely true and I hope very much you continue to post comments on Craig’s site. That said, of course, I do stand by my comments – for the time being. I will have to give the figures a closer look but time does not allow at present. And I am of course angry, and I do feel powerless. But I feel that both those emotions are reasonable initial responses to the current political situation. I would be nonplussed, especially as you are a Labour supporter(/member?),if you didn’t feel a little angry and powerless yourself. I’m not affiliated to any party at the moment, by the way, although I know I will have to eventually muck in somehow, somewhere, or I shall go mad.

    @anticant: Cats are fine, fine animals who command both my affection and admiration. That said, they are the only pet I know whereby if they magically increased fifteen-fold in size overnight, they would kill you offhand as soon as they became bored.

  46. Chris

    13 Jul, 2009 - 6:54 pm

    eddie,

    as far as this doubling the amount of money per pupil that you ascribe to New Labour: The money has not followed the child, it has been spent on technology which might sound like a fine idea in theory but it hasn’t worked out that way.

    Everyone now has an ‘interactive whiteboard’ which may, or may not, work, at enormous expense and against the wishes of many teachers – who, of course, were never consulted over how this magical doubling of money might be spent. Other cash went on endless in-service courses designed to do nothing but drive teachers away by delivering a kafka-esque vision of hell.

    The school building programme seems to be PFI (so no credit to the Gov for spending there… it’s just another way to mortgage the future… Something for all those lucky school children to llok forward to paying for in the future). So, no real benefit there.

    In reality (and speaking from experience – Primary and Secondary) it has all been nothing more than a continuation of failed Tory policies with added micro-management and an egregious manipulation of tests, testing and statistics.

    And to think – I voted for the bastards.

  47. eddie

    13 Jul, 2009 - 8:50 pm

    Chris

    YOu will have to vote for someone else next time then, but the reality is that we will have a Tory government regardless of what you and others like you feel and think. My point is, stop whingeing about the system and do something about it. What is your solution – PR? A revolution? It’s not going to happen via a PC screen. People need to engage with politics and stop sniping from the sidelines. Of course it is very easy to be cycnical but that leads to a situation where a minority of people are carrying the mass of the population politically speaking, like an economy where the majority is on benefits – it’s not sustainable in the long term.. Rob, thanks for the reasoned response. Yes I am still a party member, or think I am – their admin is none too good! But I have stuck with them because I think they are better than the alternatives, although I am no fan of Brown. I don’t like the Libs because I think they are dishonest and a vote for them is wasted and the greens or any other fringe party ditto. I lived through 18 years of thatcher so 1997 was a great year for me – disappointing in the long term perhaps, but there have been many solid achievements and a country run by Etonians ain’t going to be better, I assure you.

  48. Anonymous

    13 Jul, 2009 - 9:55 pm

    Quote: “…many solid achievements…”

    The only one I can think of is Northern Ireland.

    The rest is disaster, failure and retrograde motion…

    Will Tories be any different at all….

    ….not discernably so, except perhaps for the accents. They might even resist (somewhat, they’ll cave in of course) the bankers push for total full-on surveillance state.

    We and our elected government currently live under the complete domination of Zionist/masonic international bankers.

    Look at Gaza and our middle-east policy in general.

    Nothing is going to change that in the short term. Certainly not any general election.

    A complete collapse of the dollar followed by a massive war…..that might change something. People are string to wake up very quickly as to who are the persons who really direct policy. It ain’t MP’s….they’re just rubber stamp merchants (at present)…..salesmen.

  49. dreoilin

    13 Jul, 2009 - 10:57 pm

    “Perhaps you can’t understand that that definition makes almost everyone on this board a troll …”

    –eddie

    Read the definition again. What you said is absurd and shows lack of logic.

    “closed minds are rather unhealthy don’t you think?”

    Absolutely. And your mind is closed against Craig as a candidate. For no other reason than the fact that you’re a Labour (the new right-wing) member, right or wrong. Like certain Americans who support their country right or wrong, and continue to do so in the face of hard evidence of gross abuses. Thankfully there are many other Americans who recognise the stupidity of this stance.

    “If you and others seriously want this message board to be a place where everyone agrees with each other”

    They don’t. But it’s an “online community” because 80% or more here support Craig.

    “As an Irish person you should know that more than most.”

    More than most? Why would that be?

    “And no, I haven’t read the book and don’t intend to.”

    Ping! But you’re so well informed!

    ——————-

    “The only one I can think of is Northern Ireland.”

    –anon

    And with respect, they couldn’t have done it without the other relevant parties — the Republic, and the factions in the North.

  50. dreoilin

    13 Jul, 2009 - 11:09 pm

    “Protection against government is now not enough to guarantee that a man who has something to say shall have a chance to say it. The owners and managers of the press determine which person, which facts, which version of the facts, and which ideas shall reach the public”.

    –Commission On Freedom Of The Press

  51. Strategist

    13 Jul, 2009 - 11:17 pm

    Big splash on David Kelly in your super soaraway Bastille day Morning Star:

    http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/index.php/britain/iraq_wmd_expert_was_assassinated

  52. eddie

    14 Jul, 2009 - 8:19 am

    Dreolin

    Oh so I need to support Craig to post here, is that it? Fair enough. But probably 60% of the posters here have views (dark forces etc) that Craig finds abhorrent. In fact, I probably agree with him on more issues than many of the people here, so where does that leave us? Is that an “on-line community?” I think you will find that most communities contain a range of opinions and diversity should be welcomed rather than trashed, don’t you think? I have read your (wikipedia!) definition again and I stand by my point. My “primary intent” is to challenge some of the, in my view, silly views displayed here. If you think that is trolling then your definition is ludicrous frankly. As I said before, I always try to be on topic. My mind is not closed against Craig as a candidate, I just don’t think he stands a chance. A diverse range of candidates is generally to be welcomed.

    If you think that Labour’s only achievement in 12 years is Northern Ireland then I will post this again. I listed some facts about education above. No one has challenged them. Can anyone challenge these? Others have accused me of bad grace. At least have the grace to accept that this Labour government has done some good, and perhaps acknowledge that our next Etonian-led governement MAY, just may not do as good.

    http://www.labouronline.org/wibs/164948/a1c1ce9b-1488-7bb4-a528-14436f084ba3

    0

  53. KevinB

    14 Jul, 2009 - 10:14 am

    No eddie, they have spent vast amounts of our money making the education system WORSE, not better.

    The education system now is a national disgrace. It is about social engineering and little else. It is a cacophany of dumbed-down busyness designed to induce a state of conditioned helplessness in a despairing debt-enslaved population.

    New Labour have betrayed every decency that Old Labour aspired to. They have engaged us in many wicked wars whose only ultimate purpose is to extend the sphere of influence of our financial overlords. They are traitors to the British people and enemies of God.

    When New Labour have finished their work on our fine education system, ordinary people will listen to an idiot like you, eddie, and imagine they are hearing pearls of wisdom.

    Thankfully that day has not yet arrived.

  54. Anonymous

    14 Jul, 2009 - 10:33 am

    oh eddie, some good…..yep we should cheer I suppose.

    Me, well this financial crisis, born out of labour greed, complicity and arrogance sums them up.

  55. Craig

    14 Jul, 2009 - 11:28 am

    Contrary to what Duncan is saying, I don’t think I know anybody at the Bilderberg conference.

  56. eddie

    14 Jul, 2009 - 11:43 am

    Denis Healey? Norman Lamont?

    “The Illuminati are to be found everywhere, their fingers are in all pies, aided by the fact that they don’t exist”.

    KevinB thanks for your pearls (or should that be peals?) of wisdom. Enemies of God eh? That’s a new one on me.

  57. Edo

    14 Jul, 2009 - 12:11 pm

    Eddie, are you a member of the Fabian Society?

  58. Chris Dooley

    14 Jul, 2009 - 12:41 pm

    Mysterious dark forces no. Much more specific than that. The Neo-Con Agenda. Thats all the evil in the world that needs to be defeated.

  59. eddie

    14 Jul, 2009 - 12:45 pm

    no. Although I am a Fellow of three organisations and a member of the RAC, if that helps.

    Chris Dooley, neocon is another of those lazy terms like troll. It has the same resonance and is no better than all the conspiracy stuff – as if all these people are meeting in secret hotels somewhere plotting world domination. And the Jews behind it all.

  60. anticant

    14 Jul, 2009 - 12:50 pm

  61. eddie

    14 Jul, 2009 - 1:11 pm

    I’m surprised that you believe in that stuff anticant. This is just a statement of principles and a lament for a rose-tinted past. I can guarantee that similar stuff has been written by Russian/Soviet policy wonks over the loss of Soviet influence and by Islamists over the loss of the Caliphate. There is a big gap between words and actions, as you know.

  62. eddie

    14 Jul, 2009 - 1:14 pm

    Moreover, not a single one of the names on that site is in the present Obama administration. So what is your point exactly?

  63. mary

    14 Jul, 2009 - 1:22 pm

    Does Eddie sit at his computer all day watching this blog and writing comments?

  64. Ian

    14 Jul, 2009 - 1:31 pm

    Craig

    Have you asked the BBC why you have not been invited onto the Norwich North by-election TV programme on Monday 20 July, 22:35 on BBC One (Cambridgeshire, East only).

    “A special edition of Look East. Stewart White hosts a live audience debate with the four main candidates bidding to win the Norwich North by-election.”

    You are ahead of the LibDems at Ladbrokes so should be considered for the programme.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00lvxwg

  65. Bella

    14 Jul, 2009 - 1:31 pm

    “Does Eddie sit at his computer all day watching this blog and writing comments?”

    Yes it seems to be his day job. Hope they’ve paid him well for his soul.

  66. dreoilin

    14 Jul, 2009 - 1:54 pm

    eddie is in his element.

    He’s had more attention on this thread than any other so far.

    However, he is *still* ducking my questions.

    “As an Irish person you should know that more than most.”–eddie

    More than most? Why would that be?

  67. eddie

    14 Jul, 2009 - 2:03 pm

    Dreolin – come on keep up! You know the history of Ireland. It’s closed minds/sectarianism that contibuted to centuries of suffering. The point is valid surely? As an Irish person I was merely pointing out that you will have had more experience of such things than many others. Any other questions you want me to answer?

    I spend about 5 minutes a day here – not much – and I am very fast typist.

  68. dreoilin

    14 Jul, 2009 - 2:05 pm

    I suppose many people noticed that Andrew Marr

    interviewed Nick Griffin on Sunday morning …

  69. tony_opmoc

    14 Jul, 2009 - 2:12 pm

    Whilst some books that may be classified by people like eddie as in the “conspiracy” field are both highly entertaining and educational, my view of Daniel Estulin’s Bilderberg Group book is that

    a) Estulin is a Nutter (Anyone who believes that lifts in buildings are set up to appear as an empty hole with a long drop – to kill people like Estulin, not only is suffering from extreme paranoia – but they also have a lousy editor for the story to be included)

    b) The accounts from Estulin and others of the details of topics discussed at Bilderberg meetings is deeply disappointing. The knowledge and intelligence displayed by many of the participants is so dire, that they make some members of Nu-Labour and the idiots Alan Sugar has on his aweful program the Apprentice look inspired. If this bunch of retards are having a serious influence on World Affairs, then it may explain a lot of the current lunacy going on.

    I do however, think there is a great deal of truth in that certain very powerful elements – elites for want of a better word – do have enormous influence on World Affairs. You can either take the view that things like the current economic collapse just happen by accident, or that they are deliberately planned.

    When I see people like Webster Tarpley predict events well in advance of them happenning – purely by studying what has been written and said by those really in control, then its time to sit up and take notice

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MouUJNG8f2k

    Tony

  70. dreoilin

    14 Jul, 2009 - 2:21 pm

    eddie,

    You’ve been posting here today since 8:19 AM. Don’t talk nonsense about 5 minutes a day.

    And if you think that “closed minds/sectarianism” encapsulates the history of Ireland, or even the North, then you know even less about that than you do about Craig.

    I’m done with you and your nonsense.

  71. Jives

    14 Jul, 2009 - 2:22 pm

    @eddie

    Well i’m surely no expert on the history of Ireland but even i know what you posit is simplification in extremis.Conveniently you fail to mention a significant element in that history i.e The British.

    I’m not Irish but even i know that country has clearly produced MANY oustanding thinkers,writers,artists etc…

    I respectfully suggest you generalise less and,perhaps,read some more.

    A corporal in the CCF with a marksman certificate for the .303 eh?

    Regrettably i recall i,too,was FORCED,for 3 years,into this toy-soldier world and hated every second.The whole thing was an utter shambles.They couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery. And the .303 certificate? Well they threw those around like confetti.If you didn’t get one you were probably blind.

    And no,i dont engage in amateur psycho-analysis,but it does confirms certain suspicions to me.

    Hurry up and wait eh?

  72. George Dutton

    14 Jul, 2009 - 2:51 pm

    “I am a Fellow of three organisations”

    eddie,we know…

    1: tinyurl.com/cepkn

    2: tinyurl.com/lzmg2q

    3: tinyurl.com/lflhfg

  73. eddie

    14 Jul, 2009 - 3:41 pm

    Dreolin

    “contributed to” – read what I write for Christ’s sake. Did I use the word “encapsulate” or anything like it??

  74. Tumeric

    14 Jul, 2009 - 4:03 pm

    Why oh why does eddie persist in writing on this blog? Could he not just stick to left wing organs and leave us all in peace. Eddie you’re not wanted here so sod off!

  75. Abe Rene

    14 Jul, 2009 - 4:05 pm

    @Dreoilin

    The controversy about Ireland has stirred my curiosity about your country. Are there organised tours of Ireland, something like the Cosmos package tours, which focus on ancient history? There might not be any physical evidence that Ireland is an a remnant of Atlantis, but it would be interesting to visit ‘mysterious’ sites that need explaining for one reason or another. Concerning recent history, I’m aware that one of the world’s greatest mathematicians, William Rowan Hamilton, came from Ireland and inscribed his great insight about quaternions (a four-dimensional number system) on Brougham Bridge, where there is now a commemorative plaque:

    http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/octonions/node24.html

  76. Anonymous

    14 Jul, 2009 - 4:44 pm

    Ladbrokes…HA!

    Shame they won’t let me place a lay bet at their price.

    Most bookies have Cons at 1/15, Lab 20/1 and anyother around a 25/1 bar. Hell betfair have have Greens, LibDems and anyone else at 49/1.

    Ask Ladbrokes where they have Craig in the place market and get them to give you a price at 6th or worse and to get beaten by UKIP

  77. Chris

    14 Jul, 2009 - 4:54 pm

    Tumeric,

    I have had my fair share of run-ins with eddie but his opinions are as valid as anyone elses – even if I believe most of them to be wrong. I think this site is a surprisingly broad church and I don’t particularly want anyone to go away.

    Eddie enjoys the back and forth and if he irritates (and he does, with the virulence of a sociopathic highland midge) then ignore him.

  78. Denim Justice

    14 Jul, 2009 - 5:38 pm

    I love how Craig Murray’s robots are all on here wasting time arguing with ‘eddie’ instead of actually doing anything to help Craig salvage his train wreck of a campaign!

  79. anticant

    14 Jul, 2009 - 6:42 pm

    Well, eddie, several of those PNAC names were key figures in the G.W. Bush administration, and undoubtedly exercised a big influence on post-9/11 US policy – not least the invasion and ocupation of Iraq, which that group had been campaigning for since the end of the first Gulf War.

  80. eddie

    14 Jul, 2009 - 9:16 pm

    Yes but they have no real influence now do they? Or do you know different?

    Denim Justice – they prefer to talk than to do anything meaningful (or should that be meaningless?)

  81. Chris Dooley

    15 Jul, 2009 - 1:08 am

    I fail to see how when 80,000 people have Craig’s DVD in their lap that it will lead to a ‘trainwreck’. Unless the government removes the power supply to the good people of Norwich North, they may actually find someone worth voting for. Job done. Craig’s campaign goes from strength to strength, as can be seen from the increased wailing from Millbank. Hi Eddie \o.

  82. Jaded.

    15 Jul, 2009 - 5:39 am

    ‘I spend about 5 minutes a day here – not much – and I am very fast typist.’

    Hilarious. Why don’t you just ‘come out’ and tell everyone here why you are here? You are certainly not here as an individual and anyone can see that. You used to post under the name Jessy and possibly another tag too. You are a complete twat.

  83. eddie

    15 Jul, 2009 - 8:28 am

    Jaded – that is paranoid. I am not Jessy and never have been, nor have I been anyone else. What is wrong with you?

  84. George Dutton

    15 Jul, 2009 - 9:58 am

    “Davis himself stated, “I cannot properly give my sources, given the vindictive attitude of this government, particularly the Foreign Office, to whistleblowers”…

    http://tinyurl.com/nhk3es

  85. dreoilin

    15 Jul, 2009 - 2:28 pm

    @Abe

    That Hamilton plaque would be hard to find but you seem to have great instructions at that link!

    Yes, there are such tours. (I was thinking 5,000 y.o. Newgrange, but that one is well explained already). But I can’t vouch for any of the tours, personally. Like many natives, in many countries, we often don’t look in our own backyards – until we find ourselves taking friends/relatives from abroad on a ‘sightseeing trip’. That’s how I happened to see “Viking World”:

    http://tinyurl.com/l4caj7

    I don’t know if there’s one tour that covers the whole of Ireland, but here are two links as examples,

    http://tinyurl.com/mwomw5

    and

    http://tinyurl.com/l29r2c

    At the second link you can take one of their tours, or create your own, with accommodation booked for you in advance.

  86. dreoilin

    15 Jul, 2009 - 2:30 pm

    Abe,

    I’ve just replied to you but my comment is not appearing. No doubt it’ll show up.

  87. Jaded

    15 Jul, 2009 - 2:57 pm

    ‘Jaded – that is paranoid. I am not Jessy and never have been, nor have I been anyone else. What is wrong with you?’

    Ok, I guess i’ll just run along then! Oh look, Tony Bliar is now U.K. candidate to be Euro King. People I knew said I was paranoid about that too. :-0 It still might never happen though of course. Funny how Laddies said they would get back to me with a price, but they never did. Anyone know of any bookies takings bets on Bliar by the way? You were Jessy and you are arrogant with no intelligence to back up your arrogance i’m sorry to say. Furthermore, you spend much more than 5 minutes a day here you little weasel. Stop telling porkies.

  88. Jaded

    15 Jul, 2009 - 3:50 pm

    Update – They just did get back to me. The odds are 2-1. Any cash I get in the next month i’m punting. He was like 12 to 1 a year ago! It’s a no lose bet so lump on your ‘spare cash’ folks if you have any. Lose your money and you’ll still be ecstatic! :-)

  89. Jaded

    15 Jul, 2009 - 7:27 pm

    Maximum stake £500 I was just informed. Ha ha ha. I bet they only take limited bets as well. They have to put up pretence on what they reckon is probably a ‘done deal’.

  90. George Dutton

    15 Jul, 2009 - 8:12 pm

    08 July 2009

    “Will Jack Straw prosecute himself under war criminals law?”…

    http://tinyurl.com/n4kdzr

  91. dreoilin

    15 Jul, 2009 - 8:22 pm

    “Oh look, Tony Bliar is now U.K. candidate to be Euro King.”

    Not if Ireland votes No in October.

    I’ll get straight onto it. :)

  92. eddie

    16 Jul, 2009 - 5:23 pm

    Dreoilin – what a hypocrite you are, fiddling around with people’s names like that. Shame on you.

  93. dreoilin

    17 Jul, 2009 - 9:20 am

    I haven’t fiddled with anyone’s name, little boy.

    Whatever you’re talking about, you’re wrong.

  94. eddie

    17 Jul, 2009 - 10:56 am

    Posting a fiddled-about-with name is ipso facto fiddling in my book, big girl.

  95. dreoilin

    18 Jul, 2009 - 1:50 pm

    Sure, eddie, and if I posted a quote from Shakespeare

    you’d hold me accountable for his spelling too.

    Grow the fuck up.

  96. eddie

    18 Jul, 2009 - 6:06 pm

    Fuck off direlin. You bore me rigid.

  97. Stephen Jones

    19 Jul, 2009 - 5:00 pm

    If fly posting is illegal then there’s no point in going to great expense and inconvenience attempting to minimize it’s environmental impact.

  98. George Dutton

    26 Jul, 2009 - 6:41 pm

    25 July 2009

    “US outrage over “rigged” elections does not extend to Kyrgyzstan”

    http://tinyurl.com/mj52f6

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