National Demonstration in London: Bring the troops home from Afghanistan

by andrew on October 24, 2009 7:44 am in Afghanistan

Today, a national demonstration will assemble in London at 12 noon in Hyde Park for a march to Trafalgar Square. More details here…

56 Comments

  1. gawdelpus

    24 Oct, 2009 - 9:47 am

    Have to laugh at the utter ignorant stupidity that is Iain Dale.

    There’s a general meme around at the moment that the BNP are some sort of socialist party, a smear spread by the right of course.

    It doesn’t take too much knowledge to work out that Spain and Germany which had fascist regimes, were supported by conservatives and murdered their leftist opponents, and indeed we saw the same thing in South America under fascist regimes.

    Howwever Mr Dale remains unbowed and makes an argument for his case:

    “Far left Fascist parties like the BNP invariably do well under left wing governments which fail left of centre voters. Le Pen rose to prominence in France under Mitterand. The National Front in this country gained traction under Labour in the late 1970s, and now the BNP is on the rise here again.

    I would venture to submit that this is no coincidence”.

    The ignorant absurdity of this clown knows no bounds.

    Obviously a far right party is more likely to find traction during the tenure of its opposite rather than that which agrees with it.

    It’s annoying that imbeciles like this are considered suitable material for parliament. That’s our problem. The place is ful of clowns like this.

  2. Frazer

    24 Oct, 2009 - 9:51 am

    You back from DC etc then ?

  3. LondonStatto

    24 Oct, 2009 - 10:33 am

    There’s a general meme around at the moment that the BNP are some sort of socialist party

    Yeah, funny that. I think it has something to do with their economic policies.

  4. subrosa

    24 Oct, 2009 - 11:14 am

    It’s on days like this that I wish I lived in the south of England. I would have attended the demonstration and have been delighted to carry my placard.

    Alas I live in beautiful Scotland and know how fortunate I am, but I wish the demonstrators much success. It’s criminal that our government is keeping our troops out in the middle east while they fiddle around deciding what the next ‘strategy’ is to be.

  5. gawdelpus

    24 Oct, 2009 - 11:16 am

    @ Londonstatto

    On the BNP being a socialist party

    “Yeah, funny that. I think it has something to do with their economic policies”.

    They don’t have economic policies, you halfwit!!

    They only have racist policies that are designed to appeal to conservative middle England.

    There has never been, anywhere or anyplace, any fascist party that has sought alliance with socialists. First chance they’ve got they’ve murdered them.

    There has never been, anywhere or any place, a fascist party has not sought alliance with Conservatives.

  6. JimmyGiro

    24 Oct, 2009 - 12:20 pm

    @gawdeplus

    Leftwing/Rightwing: is an economic scale.

    Liberalism/Fascism: is an authoritarian scale.

    Fascists can be leftwing or rightwing; they are simply authoritarian, at the expense of the individual. An extreme form of democracy can be fascist.

    Fascism = rule of the collective.

    The BNP are primarily racist, like the Women’s Institute is primarily sexist; but this is not sufficient to call either, a fascist group.

  7. George Dutton

    24 Oct, 2009 - 1:16 pm

    “Have to laugh at the utter ignorant stupidity that is Iain Dale.”

    “There’s a general meme around at the moment that the BNP are some sort of socialist party, a smear spread by the right of course.”

    gawdelpus

    That will be why so many in Iain Dale’s tory party are leaving and joining the BNP. Some family members of tory members donate money to the BNP. The BNP is an arm of the tory party…always has been.

  8. Vamanos Bandidos

    24 Oct, 2009 - 2:18 pm

    Don’t have much time.

    Here we go; Ian whatsit already has started to play the game of disinformation, and is busy pushing the BNP to the left, which of course is where his enemies are laired, and as every god fearing conservative knows there can never be left, there are only right, and furthermore right.

    This is our system that promotes these lying sacks of shit, at the expense of the good, honest, hard working; men of honour and truth. This sack of shit Ian (sue me Ian I have already been sued by Sack of Shit for equating you with it) along with the rest of the lying bastards are busy covering up the most obvious; The neo labour and their neo liberal/conservative policies have come home to roost.

    The silent and bashful racists in UK have been empowered, and encouraged by the years of covert and at times overt racist polemics dished out at the times of distress and glaring short comings of the UK governing echelon that includes her Majesties’ opposition to boot, these silent racists are no longer satiated to shouts of “Paki Cunts” in their bathrooms, and our streets are now echoing to the loud and clear taunts of; “Pakie Cunts”, “Black Bastards”, etc.

    While our illustrious governing echelons, are busy rearranging their rebuttals in the directions hitherto unknown, and blaming the rise in the votes for BNP; as an “anti politics” tendency. Fact that why on Earth the anti politics did not result in more votes for independents and or liberal votes is not debated, instead the spin machine goes on to absolve the racists from their despicable mindsets, and attempt to give credulity to the notions of; expenses is what done it govner!

    The simple fact that Nick Griffin portraying himself as a Zionist and a fellow traveller whom now believes Jews were Holocausted, as a measure of his rehabilitation from a racist; he has seen the light, speaks volumes about the sharply pointed racism towards the; “Pakies”, “filthy Arabs”, “Rag heads” “Hajis”, aka the “Muslims”, is designed to be understood by even the most ignorant of the ill educated populace attending the PFI schools, and these failing not to absorb its’ point.

    BBC exposing the nefarious state of affairs in the current UK has made the tootsie play into a fully blown coitus of hatefest and those caught with their pants down are busy explaining away their own racism and their fellow racists mindset to the world in twenty first century.

    The fact that the anti war march is carrying on, under the careful watch of the paramilitary militia we have come to accept as the police, and with the prior consent and agreement of the said paramilitary militia, is an attempt to make believe there exists a modicum of freedom of expression in the current UK. There again the shadow theatre cannot be understood by so many ill educated morons whom verily believe the cock and bull stories of seventeen thousand years ago!

  9. anon

    24 Oct, 2009 - 3:22 pm

    Vam.. Band.. Quite agree. But what’s with 17,000 years or 15,000 B.C.? Abraham or Ibraheem peace be upon him was the model Muslim. He trusted and believed in God completely and he was not of those who ascribed partners to Allah. Not much freedom of expression then either. He was placed on a massive bonfire for his belief in the oneness of God, by idol worshippers and God made the fire cool for him. Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose.

    Palestinians are leaving their country in droves. What will Israel do without their protective shield? Play cricket with Iranian nukes, maybe?

  10. seven

    24 Oct, 2009 - 3:35 pm

    nice to see you on the real news network craig

    http://tinyurl.com/yz5gx2e

    as for the bnp being socialist, well, as we say in lochee, EH RIGHT. But I suppose if new labour are socialist anyone can be, all you have to do to prove it, is claim you are.

  11. mike cobley

    24 Oct, 2009 - 7:55 pm

    If I had the time and some skill with photoshop, I mock up a picture of dead bodies from the ethnic cleansing in former Yugoslavia with the words, “BNP Policies In Action” across the bottom. BNP are rassenkampf idolaters, pure and simple.

  12. John D. Monkey

    24 Oct, 2009 - 8:15 pm

    The debate above is a bit like Monty Python: We’re not the Peoples Front of Judea, we’re the Judean Peoples Front…

    It doesn’t matter a f*** whether the BNP are called left wing, right wing, fascist, authoritatarian, whatever. All the labels in the world are just that, labels, and don’t matter.

    The BNP are of course nasty and stupid, and what few policies they have are based on incorrect premises. But while they will have gained a bit from the Question Time fiasco, they will have precisely no MPs in June.

    And they frighten me less than what people like Jack Straw say and do. Have you read his latest poison about secret inquests, everyone?

    And he’s part of the Government, with power to do things, whereas the BNP will never be more than a marginal party in terms of electoral politics.

    Save your venom for the real enemies of democracy…

  13. tony_opmoc

    25 Oct, 2009 - 1:49 am

    She Is Just Standing There With Her Long Blonde Hair and Her Blue Dress With a Welcoming Smile

    On Her Face Looking Like a Sunflower in Full Bloom

    And She is Open and Receptive to all the problems.

    Most from our friends but also from people She has never met in her life…

    And I am just watching what she does and how so incredibly nice she is to people..

    And then I take My Wife Home

    And Can’t Believe How Lucky I Am

    How Can Americans Allow Their Government To Torture People To Death By Boiling Them ALIVE

    [Report this comment]

    Posted by: tony_opmoc on Oct 24, 2009 6:34 PM

    Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]

    Whilst I admit Us English Have Been Complete and Utter Cunts in Controlling The World…

    When it Came To Cooking People in Pots…

    We Drew The Line…

    We Said NO You Can Not Cook Human Beings in Pots And Eat Them

    But The Americans said Why Not?

    We Can Outsource It To Uzbekistan

    And Put The Protein Into McDonalds Beef Burgers…

    Craig Murray Said No

    That is Not Acceptable

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/

    Tony

  14. JimmyGiro

    25 Oct, 2009 - 2:07 am

    Having just watched Question Time via the iPlayer, it seemed that Al JaBeeb had taken no risks with a random audience; they were clearly too good looking to be anything but filtered through the Beeb’s Guardian readers short-list.

    Clearly the internet is the only medium in which people can discover the true feelings of most other people (that are on-line and communicative).

    The Beeb simply stages what it thinks the public should be thinking; therefore Greek choruses will be the order of the day. Nick Griffin believes in what Nick Griffin believes: “Boo hiss”. Bonnie Greer believes in what Bonnie Greer believes: “Hip hip hurrah”.

    The conclusion therefore can be speculated, that the internet will be the next whipping boy. There is too much freedom on the web, hence it must be blamed until ‘tamed’. The people are not to be allowed their own prejudices; so maybe the Beeb will drop the licence fee to win us back from the web.

    Just an ugly thought from an ugly person, that would never be invited to a Question Time audience.

  15. mary

    25 Oct, 2009 - 8:35 am

    More greed from the ermine brigade. Not such a goody goody it would appear.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6889016.ece

    Note the old man – ‘Her husband James is a QC who worked in the same London chambers as Blair and Derry Irvine, the former lord chancellor.’

    Who will rid us of these NuLabour troughers?

  16. mary

    25 Oct, 2009 - 8:44 am

  17. mary

    25 Oct, 2009 - 8:44 am

  18. John D. Monkey

    25 Oct, 2009 - 12:08 pm

    Excellent article by Matthew Norman in the Indpendent, dissecting Jack Straw’s attempts to introduce secret inquests and his general loathesomeness.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/matthew-norman/matthew-norman-of-all-the-new-labour-toadies-jack-straw-must-be-the-worst-1807563.html

    Interestingly he makes no mention of Straw’s Blackburn elctoral fraud.

    Craig, time to revisit this story?

  19. manchedave

    25 Oct, 2009 - 4:42 pm

    CRAIG

    Thought of you when I saw this about despoliation of Ghanaian forests .

    http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/green-living/who-says-its-green-to-burn-woodchips-1808994.html

    ### The Independent on Sunday was offered 100,000 tons of tropical hardwood and softwood a month by a firm in Ghana, ###

    as woodchips for fuelling power stations.

  20. Polo

    25 Oct, 2009 - 9:01 pm

  21. interested

    25 Oct, 2009 - 11:07 pm

    Craig, what do you know about the common purpose group?

  22. Jon

    26 Oct, 2009 - 11:25 am

    I don’t know anything about Common Purpose, but their wikipedia entry is interesting. Although the standard page is sparse, the talk page contains plenty of disputed information that may or may not see the light of day.

  23. JimmyGiro

    26 Oct, 2009 - 1:40 pm

    Fabians by another name ?

  24. ingo

    27 Oct, 2009 - 10:07 am

    Can everyone feel the pressure from Milliped and Brown on public opinion, to have their favourite dictator installed as an unelected european executive?

    This unashamed desire by little islanders and opt out merchants to lord it in Europe, when they could not see fit to take us into the Euro when the time was right, when they showed no interest in Schengen, is breath taking.

    Millipeds speech two days ago sounded as much like’ we have eaten foreign policy by the spoonfull and can show the rest of Europe how its done’.

    Milliped should have a look at the last negotiations to free Shalit and incarcerated Palestinians,German negotiators, behind the scenes with utmost care, not Tony Blair, all he could muster is an increase in westbank roadblocks.

    Thanks god there is opposition to him, and not just the usual lefties, that man is likely to drag Europe into creating more chaos and bloodshed in Iran.

    For the first time I take note of Turkey, their PM called the current ‘get Iran’ campaign by the west outrageous and unjustified, if they could only get on with their Kurdish neighbours.

    I hope that your washington/London Brussels roundtrip has not left you out of breath.

  25. anticant

    27 Oct, 2009 - 11:42 am

    All I know about Common Purpose is what I’ve gathered from the internet. The Google links for it and its moving spirit, Julia Middleton, are interesting. It presents itself as a management training group for higher leadership – presumably run by people who consider themselves to be Higher Leaders. But in the video clips of her spouting about it and her “vision”, Julia comes across as a rather wacky lady with no more notion of how to give a competent talk than Dubya had of how to read ‘My Pet Goat’. It is all rather obvious, trivial stuff dressed up in hifalutin’ managerspeak.

    The strange thing, though, is that CP apparently gets massive government financial support to run training schemes for local councils, the NHS, the police, and sundry other public bodies, and has a turnover of several millions a year. Unsurprisingly, its critics foam at the mouth about it, and accuse it of being a sinister conspiracy to undermine our democracy (what’s left of it) on behalf of EU communitarianism and a useless gravy train.

    You pays your money and you takes your choice. But preferably not MY money.

  26. Jon

    27 Oct, 2009 - 1:42 pm

    @gawdelpus – I would imagine the BNP would model their economic policies on Hitler’s, which were left leaning. They probably do have economic policies, though to say that is not to excuse their racism, which I believe is a greater component of their motivation compared to any concern for the poor.

    As has been pointed out previously, a political position can be left-wing economically whilst at the same time taking a hard-right stance on the social scale. See this link for more:

    http://www.politicalcompass.org/extremeright

  27. Jon

    27 Oct, 2009 - 1:48 pm

    Addendum – I should add that if the BNP have left-leaning economic policies, that does not mean they would implement them in the rare (and dangerous) event they got into power. It is just possible they are, of course, a bunch of lying bastards.

    On another note, George Monbiot is supporting Blair for EU President. Have a look at this for why:

    http://stopwar.org.uk/content/view/1566/1/

  28. mary

    27 Oct, 2009 - 2:52 pm

    Ha Ha

    Mills loses bribery case appeal

    Mills admitted accepting money but said it came from another Italian.

    David Mills, the estranged husband of UK cabinet minister Tessa Jowell, has lost his appeal against a bribery conviction in Italy.

    He was convicted of accepting £400,000 from the Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi in 1997.

    Mills had been sentenced in February to four-and-a-half years in prison for corruption.

    The Italian PM had been shielded from prosecution by a law he proposed but judges overturned it this month.

    Mr Berlusconi has denied paying a bribe and has said he does not even know Mills.

    That defence is likely to be re-examined after Italy’s most senior court ruled that Mr Berlusconi’s protection from prosecution violated the constitution.

    Mills was one of Mr Berlusconi’s consultants on offshore tax havens. He was accused of accepting the money as payment for keeping quiet about offshore companies during two previous trials in 1997 and 1998.

    Much of the evidence against Mills stemmed from a letter he sent to a British accountant in 2004, in which he said the payment came from “Mr B”.

    The trial verdict said there was no evidence that the money came directly from Mr Berlusconi.

    Mills initially confirmed having received money from Mr Berlusconi “in recognition” of the evidence he gave, but later said the money had come from an Italian shipping magnate.

    Speaking after the appeal decision, Mills’ lawyer, Federico Cecconi, said the case “does not end here”.

    “We have strong elements in our favour [that] will bring a change in the sentence”, he said.

  29. anticant

    28 Oct, 2009 - 9:29 am

    Lots of interesting info – and no doubt some misinfo – on Common Purpose here:

    http://stefzucconi.blogspot.com/2007/09/common-enemy.html

    Apparently they keep flies on anyone who makes FOI requests about them. Odd.

  30. anticant

    28 Oct, 2009 - 9:30 am

    Sorry – that should have been ‘files’, not ‘flies’. There don’t seem to be any flies on CP!

  31. derek

    28 Oct, 2009 - 6:22 pm

    Real News network now has the complete speech from Larry Wilkerson mentioned in an earlier comment

    http://tinyurl.com/yfo3rjb

    It is so refreshing to see an American military man who actually “gets it”.

  32. dreoilin

    29 Oct, 2009 - 1:03 pm

    and it’s refreshing to watch someone speak who actually comes across as if he’s sincere.

  33. Jon

    29 Oct, 2009 - 1:36 pm

    @All – for interest, Ian Cobain of the Guardian is on the Paul Foot Award 2009 shortlist, on his work on torture complicity. From Private Eye.

  34. tony_opmoc

    31 Oct, 2009 - 2:30 am

    I Am a Bit Pissed But I Have Been Trying To Explain To My Daughter’s Friend Who Lives Across The Road and Is Having a Brilliant Time at University About How My Uncle Who Was an Ambassador and Had a Really Posh Accent – How He Showed Me Around Her University 50 Years Ago

    Well Maybe 45, I am Not Quite That Old

    But I Remembered What a Brilliant Place It Seemed When I Was a Child

    The Kids are Home For a Few Days – Its Half Term – And They All Seem So Happy To See Each Other – And There is Probably About 15 Teenage Boys and Girls In Our House Now Just Talking To Each Other About All Their New Friends They Have Met at Their Respective Universities. Only One Has Dropped Out – A Couple Have Been Allowed To Change Their Courses. All These Kids Are In Our House – Because Our House is a House of Love and They Are Welcome. It is Where We Live.

    Tony

  35. tomy_opmoc

    31 Oct, 2009 - 3:27 am

    Craig Murray,

    When You Think You are losing hope about how aweful our World is and You have done more than anything you think is possible to turn this thing around…

    It Doesn’t Matter If You Die

    You Have Done What You Have Done and Can Be Completely Proud Of What You Have Done…

    I Have a House Full Of Teenage Kids – My Daughter’s Friends at Universities

    They All Have Different Talents – But There Is No Evil Amongst Any Of Them

    They Are All Incredibly Intelligent People And They All Want To Defeat The EVIL and Turn The World Into a Better Place..

    They Have Already Or Will In The Future Travel The World And Bring Their Morality with Them

    You – Craig Murray – Are an Inspiration To Them

    They Do Not Want To Smack Your Bottom..

    How Come You Get Pleasure From Inflicting Pain..

    I Have Tried Two Vibrating Cock Rings at The Same Time – But Never Inflicted Pain on My Wife or Any of My Former Girlfriends…

    I Didn’t find Pain necessary to bring them to Orgasm…

    Maybe You Should Buy Her a Rampant Rabbit

    Tony

  36. tony_opmoc

    31 Oct, 2009 - 4:24 am

    The Way I See It – It is Perfectly O.K For Teenage Boys and Girls To Get Upset When They Have Fallen Out With Their Boy Or Girlfriend

    I Don’t Even Mind When 40-50 Year Olds Have Fallen Out With Their Boy/Girlfriends

    But When The 60-70 Year Olds Have Fallen Out With Their Boy/Girlfriends And Are Making a Great Big Fuss About it Screaming in Our Kitchen – In One Ear – and The 30-40 Year Olds Are Doing It In The Other…

    And It Is Our Kitchen We Have Invited Them To

    I Just Turn The Music Off And Tell Them To Fuck Off Out Of Our House…

    If They Want To Kill Each Other – Then Do It On The Street Outside and The Rest Of Us Will Watch

    The Kids Have NEVER Been a Peoblem – But The Women Coming Up To Their Menopause Are Seriously Dangerous…

    I Don’t Know About Mothers I Would Like To Fuck – It’s The Grannies You Need To Be Careful With

    Tony

  37. tony_opmoc

    31 Oct, 2009 - 4:46 am

    Some of The GILF’s are a damned sight better looking than their Grandchildren – and they know it

    The Grandmothers are on their bikes and down the gym and are slim and fit with beautiful long blonde hair – looking almost exactly like they did when they were 19 years old. You can easily tell them though cos they get up and dance with me when The Band Does Free – All Right Now…

    I don’t think much will change over the next 30 years or so..

    “There she stood in the street, smiling from her head to her feet ”

    We will just Use Our Zimmerframes when we are 90

    Tony

  38. mary

    31 Oct, 2009 - 7:15 am

    @ Anticant Oct 28

    Common Purpose within Surrey County Council. How about this for Newspeak? Transparency failure!

    http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/s/2059897_transparency_failure_in_scc_deal_with_leadership_firm

    SCC is famous for losing £20 million to the Icelandic banks collapse in spite of paying for costly financial advice, renewing its highways maintenance contract where there was massive previous fraud in the accounting, having the most pot-holed roads in the country and worst of all failing in its provision of children’s services. I think they are either a one star or no star council now having been three star at one stage. Their latest nonsense is to cancel the fairly recent Pegasus school bus scheme (procured at great expense) thereby bringing more cars on to the roads.

    The Surrey Chief Constables usually go on to run the Met by the way.

    Inefficiency (and corruption?) seem to be the bywords.

  39. derek

    31 Oct, 2009 - 11:08 am

    On the subject of inefficiency and corruption in councils.

    Interesting story about Somerton Town Council which was being run as a personal fiefdom for the enrichment of its members. Almost the entire council has been forced to resign due to the activities of a lone blogger.

    Background story at

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/30/somerton_council/

  40. nevergiveup

    31 Oct, 2009 - 11:20 am

    @mary

    I would be interested in Craig’s views on that link. WikiPedia interesting as well

    http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/s/2059897_transparency_failure_in_scc_deal_with_leadership_firm

  41. ingo

    1 Nov, 2009 - 2:42 pm

    Appropo local council accounting. When one listens to the Tories nationally one could come to the conclusion that they are all in favour of hardline control of public funds, at the center that is.

    here in Norfolk we have 51 councillors out of 89, so I believe, that are alos District councillors.

    This happened due to the unitray debate which nearly came out with Norwich as a choice, which would have made it necessarry to reorganise all of Norfolk.

    So these District councillors all feared of loosing their public job, put themselves up for county council, with the resulkt that 51 are now double dippers, expenses perks of certain profile committee jobs, etc. it all adds up. hence the latest query by a local solicitor.

    here is an excert from the EDP last week, reporting on a council meeting aghast at being asked a question about their expenses. Norfolk is Tory run.

    “Mr Martin said twin-hatters now enjoyed a starting allowance of £12,500, and the highest paid, cabinet member Harry Humphrey, gets £40,411 as a member of the county council, King’s Lynn and West Norfolk borough council and Norfolk Police Authority.

    Council leader Daniel Cox, who is also a South Norfolk district councillor, gets £39,390.

    Another councillor William Nunn, who is also leader of Breckland district council, gets £34,929.

    Mr Martin, a solicitor from Great Witchingham, had produced a four-page report for consideration, suggesting allowances for twin-hatters should be capped and they should not take up outside commercial interests.

    It also said that if twin-hatters waived their basic allowances they received from districts that would put back between £175,000 to £200,000 into the public coffers.

    And he queried how county councillors could fit in several different roles while, in some cases, holding down full time jobs.

    But the Tories voted that the items should not be discussed and also enacted a closure motion to curtail any debate, sparking anger from the 62-year-old.

    “I am astounded that the committee should encourage members of the public to come forward and then decline to even give them a chance to speak at the meeting,” Mr Martin said. “It has been a complete waste of time, but these points won’t go away and Norfolk County Council needs to acknowledge that these are matters of considerable concern to the public.

    “What really gets me is the arrogance I heard from some of these people. They will do what they want.”

    Opposition councillors, who were in the minority on the committee, had pressed for the issue to be looked at and said the Tories risked looking ridiculous and being seen to behave like Westminster MPs over their expenses.”

  42. George Dutton

    1 Nov, 2009 - 9:16 pm

    1 November 2009

    “‘Torture flight’ plane spotted in Birmingham”…

    http://tinyurl.com/ylqvtow

  43. George Dutton

    1 Nov, 2009 - 11:36 pm

    “Independent Police Complaints Commission”…

    http://tinyurl.com/yah9grk

  44. technicolour

    2 Nov, 2009 - 4:54 pm

    Viral stop war short video

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP9UAnvgUaQ

  45. ingo

    2 Nov, 2009 - 7:27 pm

    Anybody who agrees with scientist being able to make responsible decisions on the health and safety of the public, by scinetific means and advise, please sign this petition

    http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Back-Prof-Nutt/?signed=f546560.656b19

    This year we heard of a UN report lambasting prohibition as the greater harm, much worse than the drugs themselves. Now, I do not mind politicians getting it wrong, but I do mind them nobbling scientific committees , undermining good governance. I see nothing wrong with prof. Nutt speaking out for those who are harmed by this, but coming from the Unions, Alan Johnson must have some sort of superior knowledge. Equally, the next/other Tory Government, David also seem to think prohibition is the only way backwards for this country and is prepared to carry on spend spend spend, with no result, whilst cutting local day centre nursing care for the elderly and disadvantaged.

    All other scientific advice is now being tinged with these untrustworthy practises that made prof. Nutt and his collegues resign, bullying amd intimidation is dangerous for public health and society, stuffing scinetific bodies with consensualist yes sayers will not do either.

    Please sign the petition, ta.

  46. Alfred Burdett

    2 Nov, 2009 - 11:54 pm

    Why, I wonder, demand the troops home from Afghanistan? I mean, are we not all agreed on the merit of destroying the Afghan culture and nation, replacing Afghanistan’s government with a plutocratically-owned democracy, and in generally opening the place up to the forces of globalization?

    Destroying the British culture and nation is, after all, what New Labor seems mainly about, so are we not all anti-nationalists now — except when we’re having a national protest, of course, or when we are promoting scotch nationalism (Oops, sorry for the sarcasm)?

    However, if we’re not for the destruction of the British culture and nation, why is there not at least as much venom directed at the establishment parties as for the BNP, which quite correctly identify themselves with Churchill in the defense of of Britain against foreign invasion through mass immigration? In fact, if you look back to the Britain of Churchill’s last administration and the Britain promoted by the BNP, there does not seem to be such a great difference: corporal punishment in school and in jails, the death penalty, import tariffs, and a rather peaceful and fully employed country.

    True, by today’s standards, Churchill wasa racist. But is it not better to be a nationalist and therefore a racist than a traitor to your own people?

    Here in Canada, of course, we gave up on the British nation a long time ago, mainly, because they were not sufficiently philoprogenitive to occupy our half of the North American continent. As a result, we have mass immigration from all over the world. And in fact, the policy has been effected quite skillfully to ensure that no ethnicity or nationality can exert an overwhelming influence (with the apparent exception of the Zionists who control much of our media and apparently dictate unquestioning loyalty to Israel from all political parties). As a result, we have an interesting experiment in ethnic homogenization, which seems well on its way to the creation of a Canadian nation.

    Personally, however, I see no reason to repeat the process in the very different circumstances that exist in Britain.

  47. ingo

    3 Nov, 2009 - 9:33 am

    Thanks for that comment from canada Alfred, it is a measure of globalisation that we all have to be friends of Israel these days, dare those who speak out of line. you said:

    ‘In fact, if you look back to the Britain of Churchill’s last administration and the Britain promoted by the BNP, there does not seem to be such a great difference’

    the difference is fifty years, a changed political spectrum as part of Europe and a world that has lost all of its homogeneality, indeed its a fact now that mixing out genes is good for us.

    BTW. whats the mystery surrounding the floating feet that keep washing up on your west coast for the last few years?

  48. Alfred Burdett

    3 Nov, 2009 - 4:26 pm

    Ingo, I have seen no explanation for the feet washing up on our shores. Very odd. Perhaps some Muslim group at work combating a crime wave?

    As for Europe losing all homogeneity, you need to learn a little about genetics and human diversity.

    Europeans never were genetically homogeneous. Read Francis Galton, who recorded the morphological variability of the British population in the 19th century — taking particular note, naturally, of the beauty of the women.

    And despite more than a hundred years of population migration within the UK, huge geographic variation in morphology is still apparent. In Shetland and the North East of Scotland there are still real Vikings, as blue-eyed and blonde as the Icelanders: Lord Thurso (James Sinclair?), for example, who was, I believe, Margaret Thatcher’s environment minister. In the rest of the highlands and islands, you will still see many a “lovely lass” of quite a different form: dark-hair, brown eyes and so slight in build you’d think the slightest gust of wind would blow them away. Lowland Scots are an entirely different breed, with facial types that are remarkably persistent. When visiting there, I always have the feeling that these people are Canadians who haven’t emigrated yet.

    And then so many types of English and Welsh. In Leicestershire villages; men with a facial structure like that of people you can see in coastal towns of Normandy; in Kent, children with the high cheekbones of Danish settlers; in Sussex and Hampshire, fair-haired, blue-eyed Saxons; in Cornwall, sandy-haired Celts; etc.

    As for the mixing of genes being good for us, yes and no. Check this out with Richard Dawkins, but as I understand it, the entire logic of life is to propagate one’s own genes, not someone else’s. What was it Russell said: “life is a sort of chemical imperialism which seeks to transform the rest of the universe into matter arranged in the same form as itself.”

    In the process of reproduction, we have to mix our genes with someone else’s, and the important thing is to mix one’s genes with those of someone else having a high reproductive potential ?” healthy, fertile, good looking, etc. and such a person might be a Hottentot or a Zulu, for all I know of your case. However, I know that the greatest concentration of my genes are in populations of Great Britain, and neigboring countries. Therefore, I am not in favor of genociding the British, which appears to be the inevitable consequence of the present immigration policy: UK-born women, 1.2 children, Muslim immigrant mothers from Asia, 5 children. If those numbers are approximately correct and are perpetuated, most of the existing British gene pool will be eliminated in a remarkably short time.

  49. Roderick Russell

    3 Nov, 2009 - 5:13 pm

    Just responding to Alfred Burdett’s comment from Canada, I have a somewhat different message from Canada. I do not agree with his views. Yes, as my own story demonstrates (threats, harassment and a government cover-up conspiracy in 2 countries), there does seem to be something very wrong with the parliamentary system of democracy. It is simply not working properly.

    But, why doesn’t it work properly? Though I have a very different viewpoint from Mr. Burdett’s, It strikes me that the problem is similar in both countries – Their establishments are pulling the strings wherever they want to and using their intelligence services as a secret police to help them do so. Members of Parliament are scared of their own establishments, backed (as they are) by the intelligence services. They don’t have to threaten; they just have to smear an MP to ruin his career, and MI5 / 6 are known to have agents throughout the press. Not a specific smear that can be sued on; just a little negativity here and there will do the trick.

    It does seem to me that there are two problems with the functionality of our democracy. One is with the intelligence services ?” MI5 / 6 in UK, CSIS in Canada. When these people cross the line (as they have done) from being legitimate intelligence gathering operations to being the establishment’s tame secret police (a Stasi) they have killed democracy stone dead.

    The second problem is in defining the role of Monarchy. Once a supporter of constitutional monarchy, my own experiences have led me to the viewpoint that our form of monarchy is not conducive to real democracy. As Mr. Burdett (writing from Canada) will know Prince Charles’s present visit to Canada has initiated some public discussion about the future of Monarchy in Canada. Canada’s has two prestigious national daily papers. The Globe and Mail has written in support of an end to Monarchy. The National Post seems to have taken positions both pro and con. This weekend it published an article in support of monarchy from its founder Lord Conrad Black. However most of the comments were opposed to Lord Black’s view. Here is an example of one of the published comments to Lord Black’s article ~~

    “Lord Black confuses British values with the values of the Monarchy & aristocratic establishments. Remove the PR spin and they are not the same. Here is an example of values from figures close to Prince Charles – Threats, Harassment and a cover-up conspiracy to stop a police investigation. http://zerzetzen.wikispaces.com They denied a Canadian family civil liberties, and used influence to neuter our parliament, and government. Are these the values Lord Black admires? Roderick Russell”

    I have to suggest to Mr. Burdett that the BNP and their form of fascism is not the answer. All one would achieve with them is swapping the covert (behind the scenes) fascism of the establishment, for the overt fascism of the BNP and the streets. Just jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. The answer is more democracy, not less. The answer is surely a more open form of democracy with constitutional change so that the establishment cannot abuse the undefined (and often secret) powers of the Crown, and so that the intelligence services are brought properly under democratic control. To achieve this will require the beginnings of a serious debate, which is why Prince Charles’s visit to Canada has value. Roderick Russell

  50. technicolour

    3 Nov, 2009 - 5:16 pm

    “Zionists” and Muslims chopping people’s feet off: poor Mr Burdett, what a minefield he lives in. For his information, the more repressive states chop off a hand for theft, including, I believe Oman, where the Sultan was educated at Sandhurst. Still, why not throw a few limb hacking accusations around?

    Otherwise Muslims currently make up 2.8 percent of the UK population. It is interesting to read the old “they’re taking over” canard, but I have rarely heard it called genocide. Marvellous.

  51. ingo

    3 Nov, 2009 - 5:55 pm

    gosh what have I started now. Muslims chopping off peoples feet?

    What a fine line. As for my genetics dearest Alfred, I am chipper, although I have married an english woman, like many clets Mormans Romans etc. etc. before me, I don’t think that white is a race, just a different shade of brown.

    Mixing race is good for you matey, it rejuvenates your childrens genetics, health and immune system by introducing a new line that might have never crossed with a European gene.

    As for the BNP, if you want them, have em’. Should your economics are as apt as your genetics, you might be of help to these scoundrels, they could do with an economic programm, something else to talk about than immigration.

  52. Alfred Burdett

    3 Nov, 2009 - 6:47 pm

    Some people seem to lack a sense of humor. Anyhow it wasn’t I how raised the problem of detached feet.

    As to immigation, etc. the question of demographics and genetics is a technical one. I tried to raise some of the issues, but evidently, this is not the place to do it.

    As for the BNP, I have nothing to do with them although if their demographic claims are correct then I support their policy on preventing further mass immigration, because the implications for the British people are as I stated.

    I am not sure that I disagree with Roderick as much as he thinks, although it seems to me the monarchy in Canada is not a serious issue. Our head of state may be the Queen, but she is represented by a Canadian nominated by the Government of Canada, an it is that person, Michele Jean, currently, that Canadians understand to be, in effect, head of state.

    On the more serious issue of the role of the intelligence services in government, who knows, but what you suggest seems plausible to me. And if you are correct, we live under a police state like the Soviets, but with the apparatus of a democratic government to provide much better PR. Didn’t you always feel that Tony Blair was just a puppet. I mean, the guy surely has no brain of any significance.

  53. Roderick Russell

    3 Nov, 2009 - 8:28 pm

    Alfred Burdett ?” I do agree with you about Tony Blair. But I am also having similar problems with Canada’s Prime Minister Stephen Harper who is clearly having his chain pulled. I should just mention that I have brought the matter through intermediaries directly to Mr. Harper’s attention on several occasions. I have even corresponded back and forward by email with Mr. Harper’s mentor ?” Mr. Preston Manning. I live close to both of them and Mr. Harper and I even have friends in common. A well-known Alberta political strategist (Conservative) who actually tried to help (Mr. Manning knows who he is) ?” told me that the cover-up conspiracy is so extensive that I will never get justice; though if I did manage it he said that the story is as big as Watergate. That’s why I recently wrote an article that outlines the cover-up in Canada and CSIS involvement. ?” Canada’s Moral Dilemma. Click on my name to see it.

    Why would top politicians cover-this-up, when all they have to do is investigate it honestly? Well, there is little political mileage in helping one individual ?” but enormous potential political damage in offending the establishment. (CSIS running smears in the press; the establishment influencing the media, etc. ?” any scandal in the background of one of their supporters that CSIS can find being published). You may have noticed that I have exposed CSIS in the press as a “Stasi ?” style” organization. Two of my comments published in The Globe and Mail that relate to CSIS are on this URL:

    http://tinyurl.com/yjxpljv

    I don’t agree with you about the Royals. They are very close in many ways to those who slandered me, using intelligence all these years ago. They exercise considerable influence in Canada behind the scenes. I have been threatened (in Manchester) in their name, and have had it suggested by several sources (who are close to the cover-up conspiracy in Canada) that some involved in the cover-up believe that its raison d’etre is that royal family members may be involved. Besides I know someone (brother lives in West Vancouver) who innocently witnessed a royal scandal several decades ago in London, and had the hell threatened out of him by MI5. One should not have any doubts ?” there is a huge cover-up conspiracy being orchestrated at the top of two governments and they have used their intelligence services as a secret police against an innocent family.

    I must admit that when I recall all the cant about democratic values that used to spout from Harper’s Conservatives and their Predecessor Party, Mr. Manning’s Reform (which I actually supported for years), when they were in opposition, and contrast this with my own experience of their practice of democracy in government, what comes to my mind is the phrase ?” BLOODY HYPOCRITES! Roderick Russell

    Roderick Russell

  54. Clark

    3 Nov, 2009 - 8:46 pm

    Alfred Burdett,

    no, you didn’t raise the problem of detached feet, but you did write “Perhaps some Muslim group at work combating a crime wave?” – a joke in poor taste, methinks.

    As to relative birth rates:

    http://www.countercurrents.org/fitzgerald291009.htm

  55. technicolour

    3 Nov, 2009 - 9:18 pm

    “if their demographic claims are correct”

    you mean you haven’t bothered to find out?

  56. Ruth

    3 Nov, 2009 - 10:09 pm

    The intelligence services have many roles; one major one is maintaining the economic security of the country. And in this there is evidence that they are acting as agents provocateur in setting up ‘gangs’ to remove excise duty/VAT from the country. To hide the theft of taxpayers’ money trials are manipulated to hide the role of the intelligence services, and if after conviction a person should appeal he doesn’t stand a chance because the actions of the CCRC and high court judges are synchronised to hide state crime.

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