My initial impressions are that the incident is being vastly over hyped by the media. This is despite the fact that one witness on the plane described hearing a ‘pop’, ‘like a balloon’. None of the witnesses seemed very worried, more like they had an exciting story to tell.

As a very frequent flyer (I always feel guilty about my carbon footprint), the incident just pisses me off, because I know the security is going to be even more inconvenient than it currently is. It drives me insane that I cant take shampoo, toothpaste or most of my toiletries with me (usually I don’t have bags to check-in, just a day pack or 2). /rant

419!

Guess the ‘ol “shoe bomber” and now this “leg bomber” make a perfect team?

I wait in anticipation for the groin bomber

Was it his rectum or legs?

Merry Christmas, Craig and best wishes for a healthy and happy New Year!

Duty-free booze? Probably not single malt, then… Probably Buckfast.

The man is reported to be a follower of the deceased Mohammed Yusuf once militant leader of an Islamic group in North Eastern Nigeria known as ‘Boko Haram’, which means “Western education is a sin” – one of their core beliefs. The group were known locally as ‘Afghanistan’ and were mainly students and young people influenced by the Taliban although not related to them in any way.

I am expecting the authorities to highlight this information forthwith in the pre-trial window; as the trial starts this card will be played to reveal another deception cell in the propaganda matrix for escalating the war in Afghanistan.

” it is being described by the US authorities as “incendiary” rather than “explosive”. ”

You’ve obviously forgotten your chemistry and physics ‘O’ levels. An explosion is merely a partcularly rapid incendiary chemical reaction, usually in a confined space. An incendiary device is just as potentially dangerous as an explosive device in an aeroplane.

Nor does this event show that ‘by occupying Afghanistan we are provoking, not preventing, attempted terrorism.’ As an above poster pointed out the inspiration may be based in Nigerian religiopolitics, though it seems singularly amusing, if it is true, that someone who believes “Western education is a sin” should have been studying engineering at UCL. Fortunately he deems to have taken his beliefs more seriously than his studies.

It appears that the “leg bomber” is the son of a Nigerian banker, the former Chairman of the First Bank of Nigeria.

He is a Muslim from the North ( i.e. I assume both his Dad and himself).

He was a University student ?” so a bit of idealism could have trickled in at some point.

The security at Amsterdam airport is provided by ICTS ( Private Security firm ?” owned by Israeli Ezra Harel – see http://www.icts-int.com/)

- employing many Shin Bet personnel. ICST was in charge when Richard Reid boarded a plane for his trip to do the “shoe bomb” trick.

Shin Bet ( Israeli Secret Service).

The “shoe bomber” ( Reid) had shown up at Amsterdam airport ( flown from Amsterdam to Tel Aviv in July, 2001).

The “leg bomber” boards at the same airport.

Odigo Systems is also an Israeli company, that had officers near the World Trade Centre. Gave warnings of the impending attacks even before the planes took off.

Just dots and numbers at present ?” but, at some stage the true picture will be filled in.

Why didn’t he go in the toilet? Why didn’t Richard Reid go in the toilet?

PETN identified – same as shoe bomber?

Can anyone get the flight manifest?

So all it takes now is some nut with a firecracker to get everyone in the West peeing their pants.

Strange that anyone with the slightest sense would have set this guy up to bring down a plane, armed with something unlikely to do more than make people jump.

Leaving a UK airport just before xmas, we got asked if we had any crackers in the luggage, because they count as fireworks now. We thought that was kind of strange, having never been asked that before.

This whole business also makes it all the more unbelievable that passengers would have sat back and allowed a few men armed with box-cutters to take over their plane – even after they were aware of the fatal outcomes of their contemporaries in similarly hijacked planes that day.

As we would expect, passengers overpowered this guy immediately:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8431445.stm

Like the Glasgow airport event, this is much more a protest than terrorism.

I slipped on my dress.

ICTS also provided security at all the airports from which the alleged 911 hijackers boarded the planes. Since none of them appeared on the passenger lists we must assume they managed to do this without tickets or boarding passes.

Craig,

I thought how do I Repair This Manic Destruction of My Friends…

Because I Did It

No One Knew What It Was Really about..

And My Wife and Kids Have Been Completely Brilliant

And We broke Into Our Friends House Causing The Least Damage Possible when His Lock Stopped Working and He Couldn’t Get In

My Son Was a Complete Star

But I Kept Trying To Say To Everyone

It Is Not About You and Your Relationships With Your Current and Ex Girlfriends and Wives and Husbands

It Is About Me and The Girl I Fell In Love With Over 30 Years Ago…

I think I repaired the damage sufficiently enough that I can video the panto tomorrow

I tried to explain that the world dosen’t just revolve around you…

I’m not sure if anyone will understand

But those kids could have been mine

Tony

On Christmas Day he phoned us up and said he had broken the lock into his house and couldn’t get in…

My lad already having sorted him out in the snow a week earlier thought he was taking the piss and just wanted to be invited round our house for the entireity of Christmas and New Year…

Now he is O.K. in small doses – but FFS – he is a Musician…

So My wife answered and said come round here and I have got loads of cat food for your cats…

I said to my Son

Bring Your Tool Kit

And He Was Telling The Truth

He Really Had Locked Himself Out Of His Home

So with The Torches We sussed Out His House – Trying To Find The Least Destructive Place To Get In

We Looked Up – The Top and The Back and It Took about 15 Minutes

And I said

The Problem Is Your Lock – It is Turning – But The Barrel is Disconnected…

I said to My Lad

Just Hit The Lock There

And My Son Was Hitting His Lock Like Fuck – and Smashed The Lock To Fuck But Caused NO Damage To His Doors or Windows..

And When The Door Was Opened and His Burglar Alarm Went Off in Warning Mode..

He Wandered Off To Tell His Neighbour Across The Road He Had Got In…

We All Shouted To Him

TURN THE FUCKING THING OFF _ YOU HAVE GOT LESS THAN 20 Seconds Left – Before The Alarm Goes Off

And He Was Nearly 2 Hours Late Tonight For His Christmas Dinner

These Musicians Live on a Different Planet

Tony

It is just about living in a village and having the most beautiful completely extreme bizzare creative and mad people living with yu in the village

We All Have Different Skills and My Wife Talks To Everyone and Displays Her Openness and Friendlines and Innocence For Everyone To See

But If Anyone is in Trouble We Will Sort It Out Because We Love Our Friends

Tony

“ICTS also provided security at all the airports from which the alleged 911 hijackers boarded the planes. Since none of them appeared on the passenger lists we must assume they managed to do this without tickets or boarding passes.”

What do you mean the “alleged hijckers” didn’t appear on the “passenger lists”?

So far as the topic Of this subject is concerned…

Watch Company 9

Its a Russian Film – and is AWESOME

It Features a Russian Teenager

Shaping a Load of Plastic

Into The Shape of a PENIS

Blows Every Other Fucking Film About Afghanistan Away

Unlike American Hollywood Films – I Really Wanted To Know All About The Russian Kids In This Film

Sure they spoke in Russian

But the film had subtitles

And if a BRILLIANT Film Has Subtitles

You Watch The IMAGERY OF THE FILM

AND LISTEN TO THE SOUND

And The Subtitles are Just at The Bottom Of The Screen

You Don’t Notice Them

Tony

What do you mean the “alleged hijckers” didn’t appear on the “passenger lists”?

Just that. The passenger manifests of the 911 planes were released by AA and UA. None of the names of the alleged hijackers appears on them.

Some of the new security measures since implemented:

“Passengers said they were also barred from using any electronic devices and weren’t allowed to get out of their seat, even to go to the washroom, for the last hour of their flights.”

I predict this will cause more ‘explosive’ outcomes than any Nigerian with a firecracker. Smellier too.

Craig,

I like your articles but I think the flippancy of this article is beneath you. I wonder if you would have been so blase if it had been a BNP-type nutter.

Best wishes for next year.

Craig

I also like like your blog and I DON’T think the flippancy of this article is beneath you. It’s nice to have an escape from the interminable po-faced gloom-mongering hysterical over-reacting mainstream media with their legions of witless ‘security experts’ on parade, all trying to ‘big up’ the actions of a nutter into a major terrorist scare justifying ever more draconian restrictions on our freedoms.The guy was a nutter, he had explosives in his underpants, there will always be nutters, they are part of life. They don’t justify turning our island into a prison and making travel all but impossible. An occasional nutcase does not equate to a grand jihadist global conspiracy to destroy us. Thanks for not insulting my intelligence like all those berks on the BBC et al.

“Just that. The passenger manifests of the 911 planes were released by AA and UA. None of the names of the alleged hijackers appears on them.”

I think you may be mistaken.

Do you have a source for this?

“Silly Nigerian Man Sets Fire to Own Leg” sums it up for me just fine. How is this ‘flippant’? This is just putting things in perspective.

The timing gives the game away if you believe there was any structure behind this act, because our media have been focussing for weeks on justifying the war in Afghanistan. I think this was a one-off Looney Tunes episode, nothing more, nothing less. If you must see it as part of a global conspiracy, then if it were Al Qaeda they would have done a much more professional and devastating job of it.

The principle of ‘Cui Bono’ (philosophical equivalent of Follow the Money) would point a finger at CIA, Mossad or MI6 – and I am sure they would have done a more professional job as well.

Anyhow the press is having a field day and their Photoshop operators have all been busy pasting different kinds of smoke around the plane at Detroit Airport. Newspapers exist to shock, not to inform, and that principle goes back decades.

Al Qaeda as a terrorist organisation doesn’t exist. We have weak borders and nothing ever happens. Please, we’d be getting attacked very week if the media myths were true. It’s all bullshit. This was almost certainly a government job. Why didn’t he got to the toilet? There is no answer to that question!

“This was almost certainly a government job.”

Which government does he work for?

U.S. government, or rather security services, but it’s all linked with the U.K. and Israel. You think they pulled off 9/11 and 7/7 and then nothing happens after that? It’s bullshit!

According to the NY times, the Bomber’s father has reported his son to Officials in the US embassy in Nigeria and as a result they opened an investigative file on on him and his name was put on the terrorists list..

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/27/us/27terror.html?_r=1&hp

Why didn’t the US worked on the information they had?

I suspect they actually did….

So the suspect, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, works for the US government?

Okay, when you asked “Why didn’t he go to the toilet?” and deduced from this that the US government was behind it was this your cynical way of saying that only the US government could be so incompetent that their guy trying to blow up a US airliner wouldn’t remember to go to the toilet to set off his bomb or was it your way of saying that obviously it was meant to be stopped?

Either way it sounds like Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab is one Hell of a US government loyalist despite what his father says.

“Why didn’t he got to the toilet?”

Apparently he did, in fact:

“Mr Abdulmutallab went to the bathroom for about 20 minutes before the incident, court documents say.

When he got back to his seat, he said he had an upset stomach and pulled a blanket over himself, the affidavit continues.

“Passengers then heard popping noises similar to firecrackers, smelled an odour, and some observed Abdulmutallab’s pants, leg and the wall of the airplane on fire,” the Department of Justice said in a statement.”

Jaded: ” it’s all linked with the U.K. and Israel.”

I can see the connection to the US but what makes you think that the UK and Israel must also be involved?

Jaded: “You think they pulled off 9/11 and 7/7 and then nothing happens after that?”

I don’t know who “they” are? Or, in fact what your question means.

“It’s bullshit!”

I can smell it from here.

Tony: “The principle of ‘Cui Bono’ (philosophical equivalent of Follow the Money) would point a finger at CIA, Mossad or MI6 – and I am sure they would have done a more professional job as well.”

Eh? Why CIA, MI6 or Mossad? Is there something contagious going around?

This is excellent news. A single Nigerian nutter with a death wish has managed to cut down more emissions than any of the politicians squabblin’ in Copenhagen.

Be prepared for the mother of all queues, all you frequent fliers, I expect many to be so turned off by the prospect, they’d rather take a six day trans atlantic journey on a boat, in style.

Going by the lkast few years of kiling and maiming in the middle eat, Afghanistan and Iraq, it is only logical that some serious hates have accumulated. No doubt our MI’brains will be a jugglin’various event possibilities at a time and listening sharp, still they will never be able to make everyhting safe, it is an unequivocal fact.

Now’s the time to get your own plane/Zeppellin, pedallo, you’ll always find someone to share it if they don’t have to queue,lol.

It is also good to see that the fear mongers have made sure that the media did bother to report it, I think all those returning from holiday will enjoy not being abloe to go to the toile for an hour before landing, that will cause a few bursting bladders, as there is another long queue you have to join for an hour or two after you stepped of the plane to have you face looked up and your passport perused.

Have to say, flying begins to sound real tedious and naff, you get loads of stress doses and you end up breathing recycled air with your fellow 260-320 odd passengers for the next??? hours, give me an airship anytime, you just don’t fly at great hights with them.

Happt turkey curries everyone.

Latest reports from the BBC and New York Times are that this man’s device contained the explosive PETN, used by the shoe bomber Richard Reid. Thankfully the operation appears to have been bungled. At any rate it appears that Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab attempted mass murder, and if so, he deserves to go to jail for a very long time.

ICTS also provided security at all the airports from which the alleged 911 hijackers boarded the planes. Since none of them appeared on the passenger lists we must assume they managed to do this without tickets or boarding passes.

It seems then they weren’t on the planes.

Ruth: “It seems then they weren’t on the planes.”

Of course they were on the planes. If they weren’t, where were they? And where are they now? And who flew the planes into the buildings?

angrysoba:

The passenger lists were published by CNN but those links are now dead. The lists are however reproduced here:

http://tinyurl.com/ydyw76e

tinyurl.com/yeo39nw

tinyurl.com/y9wal3u

tinyurl.com/yctqnc3

Happy hunting. (You’ll need to insert the “http://” for the last three. Craig’s site doesn’t allow more than 2 full URLs in comments).

You are correct however that I might be wrong. Five years later in 2006 the FBI submitted passenger lists (for the Moussaoui trial) that did include the alleged hijackers names – even those who have subsequently turned up alive and well.

Hi MJ,

Thanks for looking up those links for me.

I had a suspicion you would tell me that it came from a CNN source as I am pretty sure I have heard this story before. It was one of the “odd facts” that David Ray Griffin believes points to a 9/11 inside job.

The problem with those CNN lists is that they weren’t passenger manifests. You are correct that manifests did appear at the Moussaoui trial but the CNN lists were lists of VICTIMS. The very URLs that you may have tried to access will contain the word “victim” in them. Please look them up and see (If you click the “CNN” link from the “What Really Happened” page you will notice that that URL appears.)

The reason why the hijackers names were left off that list is pretty obvious. The hijackers simply weren’t awarded “victim” status. Heartless MSM, I know but what can you do?

There were also other names left off that list. I didn’t know that until today when you provided me with that link to the “passenger manifests” (By the way, is that exactly what the CNN link really looked like a list of passengers with all that biographical detail on it? If that is what it looked like I think we can safely say right now that they weren’t passenger manifests). I have also heard that there were some families who requested that the names of their loved ones not be released to the public and so they also didn’t appear on the victims list. I just checked that against the manifests that were presented at the Moussaoui trial and scanned through the names of the first plane. I am not going to do that for all the planes as I feel it is a bit ghoulish, but you can see that Kelly Booms, Berinthia Perkins, Antonio Montoya Valdes and Pendayala Varasikrishna appear on the manifests but not the victims list while Jude Larson and Natalie Larson appear on the victims list but not the manifest.

Here are the manifests:

http://www.911myths.com/html/official_manifest_images.html

Also, if Mohammed Atta appears on the David Letterman show one day and quips, “Reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated!” then I will be impressed. But in actual fact the hijackers are not alive.

“they’d rather take a six day trans atlantic journey on a boat”

Hold your horses ingo, have you seen this?

“Just 16 Ships Expel as Much Pollution as All the Cars in the World”

http://www.naturalnews.com/027803_pollution_ships.html

angrysoba: the problem is that those manifests didn’t surface until 2006. The lists published by CNN were not questioned for five years, even by the 911 Commission. It would appear then that there have been some post de facto ‘adjustments’ to tie up a few ‘loose ends’. Though not concerning the alleged hijackers still alive:

Abdulaziz Alomari;

Saeed Alghamdi;

Salem Al-Hamzi;

Ahmed Al-Nami;

Waleed Alshehri;

Abdulrahman al-Omari.

All alive and well (google their names for details) and indeed claiming “reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated”, though not on Letterman as far as I’m aware.

MJ: “The lists published by CNN were not questioned for five years, even by the 911 Commission”

What do you mean the lists weren’t questioned by the 9/11 Commission? The 9/11 Commission probably wasn’t using a CNN story as a basis of their investigation. I have pointed out that those lists were not “flight manifests”. They were lists of victims and the fact that they came with biographical details shows you they aren’t flight manifests.

There were no post-facto adjustments.

As for the stories of the hijackers still alive, there are a few different reasons why some of the hijackers had been misidentified which are covered here:

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Hijackers_still_alive

Googling, for example:

Waleed al-Shehri,

“On September 23, 2001 BBC News reported that Waleed was “alive and well” in Casablanca, Morocco and was talking to multiple media organizations;[19][20] however, due to confusion over the man’s identity, and editorial concerns over conspiracy theories, BBC News later modified the September 23 report by inserting “A man called … “[19] BBC News considers the September 23 report superseded by an October 5, 2001 report that lists Waleed as one of the alleged hijackers believed by the FBI to be responsible for the September 11 attacks.[19][21]

Waleed and Wail were both reported to have been initially found, in error, by a Saudi newspaper editor as the sons of Ahmed Alshehri, a senior Saudi diplomat stationed in Bombay, India.[citation needed] On September 16, 2001, the diplomat Ahmed Alshehri denied that he was the father of the two hijackers. Wail claims he did attend Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Daytona Beach, Florida ?” but was the victim of mistaken identity, since he used that training to secure his current position with a Moroccan airline company. Saudi Arabia has confirmed his story, and suggested he was the victim of identity theft.”

Thanks MJ, I knew about the pollution of ships, they were never part of any energy saving toches held up internationally, equally the development of motorbikes leaves a lot to be desired.

Still whats a little pollution when you can avoid queing eh?

After all we don’t really want to do anything to alleviate, after all , we have tried for twenty years sending our politicians on jollies, still somehow their vested interests always seems to get the better of them.

Andrew Landsley is already subjecting us to the next torturous election, he speaks of leaders being ‘measured’, by low voter participation, a measure of our interest in politics and trust in the electoral process and party politics, so he assumes.

Off course he’s right, britain will always vote for more of the same punishment, its tradition.

I

angrysoba: the point I’m making is that until 2006 the only passenger lists available were those released by AA and UA and first published by CNN. CNN called them ‘victim lists’ and added biographical details for some of the names; others did not. During this time the 911 Commission sat and did not demand new manifests when taking evidence, though this would have been key, basic information. Then several years later the FBI slips out new manifests with hijacker names included and we’re all supposed to be fully convinced.

“there are a few different reasons why some of the hijackers had been misidentified”.

There are indeed, even for the five on my list whose cases you do not query. One has to wonder why the 911 Commission and FBI have not, out of simple courtesy, amended their lists of hijackers accordingly.

Posted by: angrysoba at December 27, 2009 11:18 AM Tony: “The principle of ‘Cui Bono’ (philosophical equivalent of Follow the Money) would point a finger at CIA, Mossad or MI6 – and I am sure they would have done a more professional job as well.” Eh? Why CIA, MI6 or Mossad? Is there something contagious going around?

Just trying to see who could benefit from a stunt like this apart from the silly person drawing attention to himself by setting fire to his leg. CIA, Mossad and MI6 have a transparent agenda as far as policy towards Muslims in their Realpolitik is concerned and they are the guys on the ground doing the hands-on dirty stuff. Anything which depicts Muslims as terrorists intent on hurting non-Muslims serves their general purpose. A bit of terrorism every once in a while also goes down well with the mass media. These effects make those of us in the West ever more amenable to the increasingly authoritarian regimes here and accepting of the illegal wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and of course the mother of all illegal wars – the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.

Facts:

1) There are Islamist extremists out there (and in here). They are real. They are not a figment of the media’s imagination. Superpower global policy has resulted in a self-fulfilling nightmare.

2) At times, historically, state agencies have utilised, or created, extremists and the organisations/ cellular structures to which they adhere, for various purposes, including as agents provocateurs. Northern Ireland is a case in point, the environmental movement, another.

These two facts are not mutually exclusive, not are they mutually singular.

I don’t know how these constructions may apply to the details of the present case.

In some ways, it doesn’t really matter. The results will be the same.

Stoopid Muzzi Nigga, What use is 72 virgins now, wi’ his balls blown off?

I am with Suhayl Saadi. And yes, just because he is a nutter does not mean he is a dagerous nutter they shoulldn’t lock up.

I reserve udgement on the PETN line as it’s anut the ninith version the media have carried. If it is indeed the same substance as the shoe bomber used, plainly it’s not that easy to detonate.

Angrysoba you are either a moron or a shill. Sorry, I don’t have the time. I’ll just say one thing. When I question why he – and Richard Reid – didn’t go to the toilet, which blatantly means to execute his plan, and you say ‘he went to the toilet 20 minutes earlier’ you have even made my little niece start laughing and ask me if you are a ‘crazy man’! That is the most moronic internet response I have ever read in my life. Well done. I don’t think you are capable of smelling bullshit or your job is actually to create it.

Suhayl Saadi:

‘Superpower global policy has resulted in a self-fulfilling nightmare.’

Undoubtedly, invading countries and causing mass carnage will piss some people off. However, it is a fact Al Qaeda, as a terrorist organosation, never did and doesn’t exist. Moreover, even if some muslims have been radicalised because of the disgusting actions of our government and its allies, then it seems that they haven’t yet graduated to terrorism. Where are these ‘terrorists’? Evil suiciders roaming the globe dedicated to destroying us and nothing ever happens? Think about our weak borders and all the illegal immigrants that get in the country. Think about all the wicked things one man, just one man, could do if in the country and he so desired. The list of scenarios that could cause mass casualties and ‘terror’ is endless… The proof is in the pudding!

Craig, he and Richard Reid were obviously patsies, quite possibly nutters too, picked up and used by security service operatives.

@Jaded

he and Reid are nutters and patsies, but were set up by jihadi scumbags in London not some fat spy in the CIA or MI6.

This ICTS outfit really needs to get its act together. The silly Nigerian bloke was allowed on the plane without a passport.

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=11873

ed hall:

‘he and Reid are nutters and patsies, but were set up by jihadi scumbags in London not some fat spy in the CIA or MI6.’

Funny how these deadly ‘jihadi scumbags’ never actually do any ‘jihadiing’ in this country then… . Too busy setting up the patsies eh? Liar, liar, pants on fire! LMFAO.

Speaking as a Muslim, something sounds really fishy about the name Abdul Mutalib?

It sounds like a name made up by someone who doesn’t know Arabic or much about Islam to try and pass as a Muslim.

It sounds like a name made up by someone who doesn’t know Arabic or much about Islam to try and pass as a Muslim.

I didn’t do it.

Neither did I.

Nor me.

Or me.

It’s Mutallab. Don’t know if that makes any difference.

“Speaking as a Muslim, something sounds really fishy about the name Abdul Mutalib?”

Tell that to his dad, chairman of the board of directors of the First Bank of Nigeria.

http://www.firstbanknigeria.com/BOD/tabid/389/Default.aspx

(First image)

It is possible that the media have run his name together. Or maybe Abdulmutallab is a portmanteau of his father’s making.

“Angrysoba you are either a moron or a shill.”

Well, I’m clearly a shill, then.

“you have even made my little niece start laughing and ask me if you are a ‘crazy man’!”

Are you quite sure she’s not laughing at your tinfoil hat? Did you put it on at a jaunty angle today?

“When I question why he – and Richard Reid – didn’t go to the toilet, which blatantly means to execute his plan, and you say ‘he went to the toilet 20 minutes earlier’”

Well, I don’t know why he didn’t go to the toilet to execute his plan. I’m asking around at NWO HQ and it seems they didn’t think of that one either. So, I’m just going to have to assume that he wanted to make the plane go down over an urban area, which would be as the plane is coming to land, and he wouldn’t be permitted to be in the toilet while that is happening.

You’ll have to flesh out the details of what you think happened as it doesn’t make much sense to me. Why was he yelling about Afghanistan if it was a government job? Even if it was a government job it wouldn’t explain why he didn’t go to the toilet.

LOL. You just keep asking at NWO HQ mate and keep us all updated.

“chairman of the board of directors of the First Bank of Nigeria”

I had an email from him yesterday, looking for somewhere safe to deposit $2,546,000. I sent him my bank details.

MJ, I don’t think you have even read the links I sent you. The reasons that each of those names you mentioned were queried is explained.

CNN explained why their victim lists didn’t include the hijackers:

“”The list includes those listed as “confirmed dead” and “reported dead” by the Associated Press… Includes those whose deaths have been reported by family, employers, mortuaries, places of worship or by the airlines that listed them as aboard one of the four flights… Those identified by federal authorities as the hijackers are not included”.”

Please re-read that last sentence, as it is quite explicit!

http://www.911myths.com/html/cnn_passenger_lists.html

It only took me about ten minutes of investigoogling to work out some of the problems here. How come you’re repeating these myths more than 8 years down the line?

[groan]

Don’t tell me the tinfoil hat catch-phrase has made it across the Atlantic.

Has the Kool Aid arrived with it?

“Don’t tell me the tinfoil hat catch-phrase has made it across the Atlantic.

Has the Kool Aid arrived with it?”

Jaded was the one who broke the Conspiracist’s version of Godwin’s Law by calling me a shill. It’s as predictable and groanworthy as the tinfoil hat jibe.

And I’m about as far from the Atlantic as it is possible to be on this planet.

Look – this is Total Fucking Bollocks To Try and Stop People From Trevelling in Aircaft. I Don’t Know Who is Behind It But Strongly Suspect It Is The Global Warming Cult….

If you want to set fire to your pants in an aircaft, then you can do so with Top Quality Extremely High Alcohol Content bought in Duty Free

If you want to let off a plastic penis – then you first practice it in the park…

You do it loads of times to perfect it…

And you practice buying the bits you need that will be detected – in the high tech duty free shop…

So what is next?

Complete Strip Searches and Anal, Oral and Vaginal Examination – just in case you have got some otherwise undetectable plastic explosives concealed in a condom?

What By The Way is So Special About Planes and Airports?

If You Really Wanted To Cause a Stink You Would Use an Enormous Fucking Great Container Ship…

These are The People in Control of Us Who are Doing This…

Over 99% of Bombs Trying To Destroy Stuff are Done By Intelligence Services Working For Governments – Or Their Armies, Air Force or Navy

Of the Remaining 1% – well most is done by Demolition companies or ordinary people who’s countries have been invaded by cunts..

What is not an issue is Nigerian’s farting…

Sure their farts might be explosive – but they will not blow a hole in an aircraft

Tony

angrysoba:

‘It only took me about ten minutes of investigoogling to work out some of the problems here. How come you’re repeating these myths more than 8 years down the line?’

You make such ‘allegations’, yet you can’t seem to read threads properly. All very shaky buddy. If you reread the thread carefully you will I said:

Jaded:

‘Angrysoba you are ***either*** a moron or a shill.’

You then said:

angrysoba:

‘Jaded was the one who broke the Conspiracist’s version of Godwin’s Law by calling me a shill.’

What nonsense you speak. And as for:

angrysoba:

‘So, I’m just going to have to assume that he wanted to make the plane go down over an urban area, which would be as the plane is coming to land, and he wouldn’t be permitted to be in the toilet while that is happening.’

Well, you have just made me guffaw so loud it hurts. My little niece was dead right. Take your tin foil hat and be off with you clown man.

“You make such ‘allegations’, yet you can’t seem to read threads properly. All very shaky buddy. If you reread the thread carefully you will [sic] I said:

Jaded:

‘Angrysoba you are ***either*** a moron or a shill.’”

And if you re-read the thread carefully you see I said:

“Well, I’m clearly a shill, then.”

A case of deduction so simple even you should be able to understnd reveals I must be a shill. Elementary my dear Jaded.

Where’s your evidence for this:

“he and Richard Reid were obviously patsies, quite possibly nutters too, picked up and used by security service operatives. “?

” understnd ” should be “understand”, of course.

No, you said I called you a shill. You are now trying to explain it away by saying that you admitting you were a shill amounted to the same thing. That is not elementary; it is absolute nonsense and not explanatory in the slightest. You are a berk and a nincompoop. Come back with something better than the following and I might, ‘might’, just dignify your little brain with an intelligent response:

angrysoba:

‘So, I’m just going to have to assume that he wanted to make the plane go down over an urban area, which would be as the plane is coming to land, and he wouldn’t be permitted to be in the toilet while that is happening.’

You think I have the time to talk to little kiddies that come up with stuff like that? Please!

“I might, ‘might’, just dignify your little brain with an intelligent response”

You wouldn’t know an intelligent response if it were dancing in front of you wearing your tinfoil hat.

My answer to your question of why he didn’t go to the toilet was speculation, clearly. I am not the guy who tried to ignite something on an aircraft – you do agree he was trying to ignite something as all witnesses so far have said there was smoke and fire – and yet you have offered no kind of explanation or evidence for saying it was a US government (with UK and Israeli government help) “patsy”.

You think I have the time to talk to little kiddies that come up with stuff like that?

It appears that you do as you’ve responded several times to me, quoting the same passage without pointing out what is wrong with it but telling your niece about it (who apparently laughs at your tinfoil drivel).

Yes, please learn to read properly, then reread ‘Comment 72′ you big, tinfoil hatted, wildly speculating, crazy wally.

You have made posts on 27th December at 2.03a.m. 8.28a.m. 9.03a.m. 11.18a.m. 11.37a.m. 12.43p.m. 2.10p.m. 3.09p.m. 11.26p.m. 11.35p.m. 11.56p.m. and on the 28th December 28th at 12.27a.m. 12.55a.m. 12.59a.m. and 5.17a.m.. The 5.17a.m. post would surely have been sooner if you had had anyhting to reply to before my post at 4.30a.m.. So, aside from a few hours sleep, you seem to live here on this thread. I find that bizarre and have seen that sort of behaviour before. You will telling us you just spend 5 minutes a day here next right? Well i’m off. Nighty night Mr. Shill… :-0

P.S. Watch him reply VERY SOON. Or is that reverse psychology? Ha ha, i’ll leave you to torment yourslef over it!

@jaded

well of course they stay in the background you fucking dickhead – the world is full of people manipulating half-wits into dying for their cause while they sit and lap it all up.

But by all means carry on with your infantile “theories”, you are in good company on this site. It reflects terribly badly on the self-styled human rights activist Craig Murray to have a bunch of fucking bawbags like you writing the sort of pish you might expect on a David Icke site.

Still I suppose you can choose your friends but not your acolytes.

Some people still believe people are allowed to question what the evil government tells us. We may disagree with each other, but unlike you we all agree with the right to disagree with the government.

angrysoba: I’m afraid it takes a bit more than ten minutes to get to the heart of the matter. Those passenger/victim lists were first made available to the press by the airline companies on 12th September, two days before the alleged hijackers names were announced. The official passenger manifests have never been made public and were not even requested by the 911 Commission. The FBI’s lists published in 2006 are not official manifests. They are unaccredited and comprise only those original lists with the alleged hijackers’ names added.

Do you see how much you can miss if you rely on ten minutes “research” at only one site with an axe to grind?

Allah states in the Qur’an that he is closer to us than our own jugular vein and He knows the inner whisperings of our hearts and minds. It doesn’t seem very relevant in this case whether this Nigerian man was set up or just mad. He is responsible for his own actions.

We have a choice when we are dealing with our own psychology whether to externalise our problems or face them and weed out the rubbish from our fears. Externalised solutions are popular amongst us Brits, stiff upper lip etc. examples of this way of dealing with life are : e.g. go to the xmas sales and buy something you don’t need, or wage beyond belief violent wars against innocent others, or try to set light to a passenger plane. The simple application of one’s conscience tells you that this will increase one’s debt problems , not relieve it; increase one’s insecurity in the world , not decrease it; and increase one’s frustration, not decrease it.

Muslims follow the much harder, but more productive Straight Path. We worship and thank our Creator and accept the conditions He has put us in. We understand that the externalisers are running away from their vast problems and we can’t change them, because they are driven by the devil to do things which are not only harmful to others but to themselves.

We realise that the externalisers cannot be allowed to pursue their ‘doing something about it’, unhindered. We have an obligation to demonstrate our own rational path and to protect ourselves and people from the madmen like Bush and Blair. Our efforts to resist them are done for our own reward, and not in any expectation of changing the world by our own hands.

The world leaders are madmen, and it also drives some of us mad.

Angrysoba

I don’t think you are a shill, in fact I find your postings sane and illuminating. I, however, am most definitely a Tinfoil Hat. It seems to me that anyone contributing their comments to a blog like this must be well aware that the narrative of events provided for public consumption is very often a fiction contrived to conceal rather than advance the truth. In that sense, we are all conspiracy theorists, it is just a matter of degree. Forgive me if I am wrong. As for the 9/11 ‘hi-jackers’, irrespective of the dead or still alive issue, I think a good case can be made to say they were patsies much like Lee Harvey Oswald. Fifteen or so got their visas from the CIA’s consulate of choice in Jeddah; five of them trained at the US Naval base in Pensecola Florida… like LHO they were clearly known to the authorities; like him they went out of their way to make a big noise and draw attention to themselves in the days leading up to the attack ?” fighting in bars and stuff, leaving their business cards behind. Severe doubts exist as to their ability to pilot the aircraft. And the authorities managed to name and produce photos of all nineteen within a couple of days, just as the Christchurch Morning Star managed to produce a full biography with photo of the supposed unknown lone nut before he’d even been arraigned for the President’s murder.

anno

In Islam mad people are not held responsible for their crimes.

If their crimes were due to their illness, they are not punished in this world or the next.

I don’t think setting your own leg on fire is a crime against anyone but yourself.

I don’t think setting your own leg on fire can in anyway lead to an aircraft blowing up.

So either he was mad, or he wasn’t trying to blow anything up but trying to make some sort of point.

I had trouble following the posts here – Uhm must be that poison Kool-Aid I drunk over Christmas/Boxing day?

Never mind let’s hope aid to Gaza gets through the blockage before the party is too weak to move on.

ed hall:

‘It reflects terribly badly on the self-styled human rights activist Craig Murray to have a bunch of fucking bawbags like you writing the sort of pish you might expect on a David Icke site.’

Actually, I believe Craig is fully aware that his blog has resident shills/trolls/disinfo agents on it. By this ‘sort of pish’ I expect you mean questioning why Mutallab and Reid didn’t use the plane toilet? Brilliant! I wil also refer you to ‘Comment 72′ as ‘probable’ future responses of mine to you gibberish. I honestly don’t see anything intelligent on the horizon… You are a legend mate. Cheers.

“sets fire to own leg”

“he wasn’t trying to blow anything up”

“What is not an issue is Nigerian’s farting…”

“Al Qaeda as a terrorist organisation doesn’t exist”

“So all it takes now is some nut with a firecracker to get everyone in the West peeing their pants.”

50 grams of PETN

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZENvUVG6TE

20 grams of PETN

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aleeJ9Rg4Hw&feature=related

This poor misunderstood Nigerian protester had 80 grams.

jaded

I’m not your “mate” you over-familiar little wingnut.

Heh Craig:

Now aren’t you just showing your true colors with this post?

You’re probably one of those idiots who think that 911 was an inside job. Your followers certainly seem to believe that.

I always find it absolutely hilarious when the left wing in the U.K. is spouting the same nonsense as the right wing in the U.S.

Another indication that the U.K. is pretty much a failed state at this point.

LOL. All you agents are right sick MOFOS. Get a frickin life!!! Why didn’t he got to the toilet? Tra la la la la… There is no answer!

And you are my mate, my MUPPET MATE. I won’t desert you kiddo…

“I’m not your “mate” you over-familiar little wingnut.”

–ed hall

Eddie! Is that you? We missed you!

Wingnuts, tinfoil hats, Kool Aid … all we need now are moonbats and leftards and we’ll be a fully-fledged US of A comment thread. Not forgetting, “Don’t let the facts get in the way of a good rant” and “Why don’t you get out of your mother’s basement?”.

Stooge XZ9301

Nah! 911 was an ‘outside’ job – silly!

Have a cup of tea and ponder, too much caffeine damages the brain.

“Why didn’t he got to the toilet?”

His seat was just above a fuel tank. The bathroom was not just above a fuel tank.

Moron.

It’s just so funny when conspiracy-tards rehash claims that were thoroughly debunked five years ago.

Craig Murray’s followers are the intellectual equivalents of Alex Jones’ followers.

There’s something seriously wrong with the U.K., given Craig Murray’s current position. I can assure you that we treat Alex Jones as the loony nut that he is.

Of course there are extreme Muslims who might want to blow up a plane just as there are extreme Western politicians who rain down bombs murdering and maiming innocent citizens in their thousands if not millions.

But like all the highly publicised terrorist acts there’s something odd about this latest one. If he really wanted to blow up the plane why didn’t he stay in the toilet? Also there are reports he didn’t have a passport and was accompanied at the airport by a well-dressed man. And why wasn’t he searched properly by the Israeli security company?

I wonder when his father reported him to the US, the US made good use of him.

No need for rendition when the goods are served up on a plate.

Ruth, wow. We can count on the fact that right-wing nuts in America will, over the next week, point out further anomalies and unexplained minor circumstances that the left wing in Britain will pick up and run with. So far, your lack of imagination shows. As such, you’re going to have to wait for those people in America who, one generation earlier, would have been comfortable in the KKK to really tie up your conspiracy-inclined mind.

“I wonder when his father reported him to the US, the US made good use of him.”

So, his father reporting him as a potential terrorist proves that he was a patsy for the U.S. government.

Your logic is far from compelling.

Your brain is about as developed as a ranting right-wing American nutjob. Congratulations on that.

By the way, what is it like to live in a country where you don’t have free speech?

Ruth, here’s your intellectual equivalent in the U.S.:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCHJoh9ywlM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81rZ2DlfENQ

What is wrong with you people?

wahey

treble trollicking fish slap shots all round!

Stooge “Agent” : So you admit to being an American, who just feels obliged to stop by on “left wing” UK sites, to give us US based wisdom on how you’ve got your problems all sorted out? And that your Yankee know-how concerns routing out these “lefties”, calling them names, and that solves the problem, eh?

You bring up Alex Jones. Jones is an unprincipled, lying publicity hound, who is prepared to denounce Obama as some big scarey commie/Nazi while denying climate change and throwing a few bones to the 9/11 Truth movement, while pretending to be chased by the illuminati, Bilderberg group, and anything else which people may latch onto . What has he got to do with Craig Murray?

And since about 1/2 of America buys into Alex Jones’ BS about Obama (much of which is promoted by Fox News anyway), are you quite sure that you speak for all Americans in saying Jones is treated as a nut? Or is your “we” the corporate think-tank who pay your $0.50 per post?

Claiming a feeble retort to having “debunked” serious questions about Official Truths does not make it a genuine “debunking”, no matter how shrill you might be in claiming it to be so. (Like that US term “shrill” I put in there for you?) The only serious debunking worthy of the name is that done on the “9/11 commission report” itself. Starting with the guy who drafted and was senior counsel on the report – “The 9/11 Commission Rejects own Report as Based on Government Lies” :

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/september112009/911_truth_9-11-09.php

(This is everywhere, btw, not just on one dodgy site.)

If you claim to know of and to take the 9/11 CR seriously, you’d be claiming a level of credulity that a Scientologist could only marvel at.

Keep plugging away though, with this and your other pseudo-names. You need you 50 cent payment per post, and we need these subjects aired. I expect nothing like that utter hostility from you, because that is the only way you people know. But ridicule and denouncement is not so effective outside America, because we don’t automatically run behind the loudest, most authoritarian voice the way your lot does.

Craig, you seem to have some fairly obvious trolls/black-ops-shills multi-posting on this thread, specifically Angrysoba and Agent XYZ. Is it your policy to let such wreckers’ posts stay up? Just clutters up, confuses and diverts actually-useful discussion into ridiculous flame-duels, after all, which is its purpose.

I guess it’s a tiresome nitty-gritty for a busy man to go through all the comments and comb out and delete this malign dreck, but someone ought to do it, to make it clear that such subversion gets removed on this site, so it’s not worth trying it.

Perhaps you need a ‘No Hasbara tolerated here’ warning somewhere prominent on your site.

Arsalan Goldberg

In Islam if you are mad you don’t get to be the president nor prime minister. I wouldn’t mind Bush and Blair being mad, if they were not in power at the same time.

An inquiry has begun. The Queen has appeared in Santa slay red, and Charles in Victorian hunting garb. Snow and banks have fallen. Normal business resumes.

Living on the proceeds of interest makes you crazy. The whole of the UK and brother Mutalab are in the same boat. We are under the control of interest-eating fools.

“And since about 1/2 of America buys into Alex Jones’ BS about Obama (much of which is promoted by Fox News anyway), are you quite sure that you speak for all Americans in saying Jones is treated as a nut?”

Very few Americans know about Alex Jones.

Why do you believe that 1/2 of Americans believe that?

Just a typical standard ignorant British misconception of America.

What’s this “$0.50 per post” business? What silly goose American nutjob convinced you of this?

There are some true-believer Muslims on this website and I’m the one accused of having the credulity of a Scientologist.

Hilarious, and typical left-wing Brit.

To the non-Muslims here – when do you plan on converting? They demand nothing less.

Larry from St. Louis

Why do you take your information about Muslims from your media? I’ve seen a clip of a US lady claiming that Muslims will force US women to wear the burka. Who puts out these strange ideas? Not Muslims.

Muslims demand not to be bombed and vilified by US government bullies.

At present I do not allow one second of US accent to enter my home over the radio. Even the US Muslims who went to Iraq were brainwashed into thinking they were there to teach the Iraqis Islam.

Ho ho ho !

Give us a break Larry and go back to WaPo – The Muslim run Budgen store at the end of my street has provided a great service – yes I admit I forgot the brussel sprouts and Bisto gravy for Christmas dinner -

Advice:

Keep race hatred, xenophobia, class hatred and the other character traits of the psychopath out of Brit sites.

Larry listen to this song, replace the words “Nice South African”, with smart American and that is what the world thinks about America, its population and its press.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSLMKUXZ3hk

Sorry I got it ‘wrong’ apparently Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula claimed responsibility Friday for an attempt to destroy a Northwest Airlines jet over Detroit on Christmas Day, saying that it had done so in response to airstrikes against the group in Yemen this month.

I would have liked to mentioned a American who is like Breyten Breytenbach, but I couldn’t because America have never ever produced anyone like that.

http://www.france24.com/en/20091222-breyten-breytenbach-voice-over-south-africa-writer-poem-casali

Mark the thing about stuff that is “claimed” is anyone can claim anything in the name of anyone.

I should have pointed out that I’m not remotely concerned with Muslims in America attempting to impose their religion on me. Hasn’t happened yet. I live among Muslims and it’s all good.

However, it’s quite interesting Muslims HERE extolling the virtues of their religion. Reminded me of what a solid number of Muslims in Britain are saying about the future of Islam in Britain.

Has anybody got anything factual/sensible/logical to say about my comment?

‘Of course there are extreme Muslims who might want to blow up a plane just as there are extreme Western politicians who rain down bombs murdering and maiming innocent citizens in their thousands if not millions.

But like all the highly publicised terrorist acts there’s something odd about this latest one. If he really wanted to blow up the plane why didn’t he stay in the toilet? Also there are reports he didn’t have a passport and was accompanied at the airport by a well-dressed man. And why wasn’t he searched properly by the Israeli security company?

I wonder when his father reported him to the US, did the US made good use of him. No need for rendition when the goods are served up on a plate.’

True, Arsalan, thanx for reminding me.

I think that the standard predictable ignorant boring British anti-American rhethoric will have to adjust slightly now that the U.S. has elected as President a person of color who was educated in a Muslim school for at least a few years.

Four posts from “Larry” since mine – three in reply to just one post. Wonder what he’ll do with his $2.00 duly earned?

Fascinating that right-wing cranks from America want to spend time on a UK website they’ve declared “left wing”. I like to spend my time on sites that interest me. For instance, almost nobody visits or comments on Charles Crawford’s stuffy, pompous and boring “Blogoir”, yet his apologia for far-right views and war crimes would be of much more interest for Murray’s detractors here. So why is “Larry”/ “Agent”/ “Ugly-s.o.a.b” or whatever he calls himself now not visiting and posting there instead?

Good work on splitting a reply over multiple posts, “Larry” – at 21:07, 21:09 and 21:18 all in reply to the _same_ post from me to someone else! – that made you $1.50 in 11 minutes – damned good work! You get paid by the _number_ of posts, after all, not the _quality_ or _length_ . That’s why the latter two components are so lacking. Naturally, you did not tackle one single real point that I raised.

Craig – you can eliminate these pests with a £5.00/year registration fee. It’s had to be implemented when these paid-for shills start to infest progressive US sites (such as Thom Hartmann’s).

Note how these post-for-hire shills respond within minutes – directly on point – even if they are addressing responses made to their posts under another name. For instance, I write to “Agent”, and “Larry” replies immediately. Clever they ain’t. How they must hover over “left-wing” sites they supposedly have no time for at all!

Here’s one Ruth – on what basis do you believe that he was supposed to have been properly searched by an Israeli security company?

Oh, now I get it – apparently I’m supposed to be getting paid $.50 per post.

I really thought that what was attempted to be claimed above was that the U.S. government charges Americans $.50 per post.

I just didn’t get it, because sometimes I don’t understand paranoid loons.

Good luck with the crazy.

Now

my

handler

owes me

$2.50

i think hes just hopelessly lost :/

That was me – I demand credit!!!!!!!!!

Good luck with the crazy.

What I find really funny about the right wing nutters from the wrong side of the Atlantic is the “Muslims want everyone to become Muslim” stuff.

Yes? So? Isn’t that what every religion wants?

Dear Craig

I bet you’re feeling a right fucking charlie now for being so dismissive of the “silly Nigerian”.

Dear Craig

I bet you’re feeling a right fucking charlie now for being so dismissive of the “silly Nigerian”.

Arsalan Goldberg,

Wrong side of the Atlantic? You mean the one with free speech?

No, I don’t think that all Muslims want everyone in the world to be Muslim. In fact it’s obvious that most Muslims have a typical “live on let live” attitude.

An extremely good example of this is Muslims in the U.S.

What I was getting at above is the status of Muslims in Britain and the silly goose liberals who coddle them.

BNP Hater:

‘”Why didn’t he got to the toilet?”

His seat was just above a fuel tank. The bathroom was not just above a fuel tank.

Moron.’

So, after the dramatic near miss of Richard Reid they decided to get this guy to set his pants alight over the fuel tank? I take it the great ‘Al Qaeda’ are competent to make some working explsoives? Detonating it in the toilet would have crashed the plane big time! Why would they want to ‘blow up’ the plane mid air, assuming that the explosive even penetrated the fuel tank as well as the fuselage, when it would cause much more damage and terror crashing down en masse? Moreover, why would they even risk that after the failure of Reid?! They got the guy on the plane and he had the power to do it with no interferance whatsoever, ‘supposedly’. What a load of tosh! The fuselage wasn’t even marked. What a desdly terrorist! LMFAO. It’s the biggest fantasy i’ve ever heard! Furthermore, notice how they had the new security measures all planned out for us the very next day! LOL. You even signed your post – ‘Moron’. Nice touch!

As for 9/11 and 7/7, I just don’t even bother any more. Anyone with two functioning brain cells and basic common sense can figure those false flags out after a few minutes thought.

Ruth, I suggest you just ignore these freaks of nature.

Larry, you can just refer to ‘Comment 72′ like the other plonkers…

Ruth

You are looking for sanity in US politics?

I am a great admirer of your comments so I apologise for replying with only conjecture on this one.

I agree with Arsalan Goldberg that Mutalab is trying to make a point. I think the point he’s making is that it stinks to have a Muslim dad whose living comes from haram banking.

As you observe, he’s handed on a plate to the CIA, who tell him by agent provocateur, what to do. They don’t want him to burn the plane down, by starting a fire in the toilet. Muslims obey commands. So I’m contradicting my own comment above that there was no agent provocateur. There is always one.

Why does Obama want this to happen? Because he has an African colonial agenda which he is itching to begin.

MacChrystal has been left in charge of Pakistan and the time has come to move on.

Please note that Obama trained his sights on China over the Copenhagen summit, at a time when unity was appropriate. In my opinion he has China’s African Trade as a grievance he can sell to his domestic market. That’s why his handlers chose and trained him, because he’s an African.

Sorry, Larry in St. Louis, nobody here believes that Obama had a Muslim education, except in order to be able to pose as a friend to Islam.

Secondly, the Western press is trying to chill the Islamic Revolution in Iran with reports of demonstrations. In the Middle East people are now expressing their dissatisfaction in a way that is unthinkable in the US or UK because in Iran they have not been brainwashed by the media as we have here in Western countries.

Far from Islamic fervour decreasing in the world, maybe we will soon see the post-feminists in the West who have failed to defeat male colonialism through sexual revolution, putting on the burkah and defeating our power crazed leaders through an Iranian-style religious revolution.

Lastly, I heard Roy Hattersley bemoaning the arrival of stream of consciousness blogging encroaching into UK political discussion. The old socialist theoreticians who gave way so graciously to the new capitalist theoreticians of Thatcherism, are now being thrown by the arrival of conscience in the political arena. The old theories from both sides were good bedtime stories for children, but both failed sets of rules have had to be dumped after the harsh realities of this global recession. Politics is now polarised between the Brown -Obama all grasping Zionist banking New World Order on the one side , and conscience and Islam on the other, in my opinion.

anno,

Thank you, thank you for proving my points far better than I ever could.

You are one big bag of crazy. Just the type of person who Craig Murray attracts with his beliefs.

Hah Glenn and Mark. Hah.

“Craig, you seem to have some fairly obvious trolls/black-ops-shills multi-posting on this thread, specifically Angrysoba and Agent XYZ. Is it your policy to let such wreckers’ posts stay up?”

I love being referred to as a shill (although “black-ops shill” is a new one for me). It just proves to me that I am talking to a completely crazy person.

” Just clutters up, confuses and diverts actually-useful discussion into ridiculous flame-duels, after all, which is its purpose.”

You don’t need my help to be confused. I think you get all of that from such sites as “WHAT REALLY HAPPENED”.com with its campaign to release the “political prisoner” Ernst Zundel and there is absolutely nothing “useful” about a discussion in which it is hinted that because the vending machines in the airport were made in Israel then obviously that’s who was behind the bombing. Has anybody checked where his underpants were made? If it reads “Made in China” will you conclude it was a plot by Hu Jintao to suppress the Uigyurs in East Turkestan?

@Jaded,

Your Holmes-like observation that I am posting at various times in the middle of the night fails to take into account the fact that I am not posting in the UK. There are these things called timezones you see, which confuses an awful lot of silly Troofers when they start saying things about Payne Stewart’s plane.

Jaded: “As for 9/11 and 7/7, I just don’t even bother any more. Anyone with two functioning brain cells and basic common sense ”

Well, that’s you out for a start.

Wow..things getting a little heated here…Craig does not delete posts often, he likes open debate unless it becomes personal, and I know this first hand as he has removed a few of my posts, on one occasion for threatining to bust a certain person’s nose for insulting Craig’s wife, and quite rightly so ( the removal that is, not the insult)I personally enjoy logging on to the blog to read diverse views from all cultures and creeds. We all should be open to other peoples views and opinions, however much we disagree. Insulting each other simply get’s us nowhere.

King of Welsh Noir, thanks for the kind words.

However, I don’t agree that the nineteen hijackers were “patsies”. It seems irrelevant that they got their visas at the consulate in Jeddah, they had to get them somehwere after all. I also don’t understand the relevance of whether or not one of them got into a fight in a bar beforehand.

As for Oswald, some people seem to find it suspicious that he was openly vehemently pro-Castro before shooting Kennedy. Why wouldn’t he be? This is the “how convenient” objection that conspiracy theorists have when they find someone acted consistently with their beliefs. But of course, David Ray Griffin likes to point out that a 9/11 hijacker going to a lap-dancing bar is inconsistent with the behaviour of a radical Muslim. So for conspiracy theorists the logic is “heads I win, tails you lose.”

Frazer, for my part, I fully stand by every word i’ve said. That’s not to say I don’t appreciate the general gist of your comment. I’d be surpirsed if you can’t see that there are security service internet agents on Craig’s blog, but c’est la vie. I completely agree with Rhisiart Gwilym and Glenn and have said it to Craig myself before. Ditch the shills. It’s because Craig’s so decent that he gives everyone the benefit of the doubt. However, I think he knows that the scrotes are indeed here and that they damage his blog. I made my comments and stopped conversing with them one by one. Funny how a ‘new name’ keeps cropping up spouting the same bullshit isn’t it?! I’ve been on forums and blogs for years and I don’t look for arguments. When I see freaks around I feel obliged to out them though, as these are very serious issues that affect us all deeply.

“I’d be surpirsed if you can’t see that there are security service internet agents on Craig’s blog”

Ha ha ha!

I know that Craig’s budget for his blog probably doesn’t stretch to fancy stuff like Slash, but perhaps he should speak to his techie to see if something similar could be implemented – the idea is that posters can award points, positive or negative – to other posts, and then elect not to see posts below a certain point value. This means that Craig does not have to delete posts, something he tries to avoid, but at the same time any visitor who wants to separate signal from noise can screen out the work of professional noise generators like angrysoba.

To an extent it is worth seeing their posts, however, as it does give one a picture of the strength of the case against those who dispute the official accounts of 9/11 and 7/7: they’re just nutjobs, wingnuts, tinfoil hat wearers and morons. Who could resist such persuasive argument?

I found a rather interesting paper which may be of interest to others. It was written by engineers who believe that WTC7 was indeed brought down by fire and debris damage and not, as the conspiracy theorists claim, by controlled demolition. What is interesting is that they dismiss the NIST report in terms even more emphatic than the conspiracy theorists. Some excerpts:

“The assessment of WTC7 appears to conclude that composite beams are extremely suscepible to failure due to thermal expansion. This is not our experience at all.”

“We do not agree with the calculations on p. 347 indicating shear stud failure.”

“the LS-DYNA analysis on pp. 349-354 locks in thermal stresses by imposing no translation at all slab edges and no thermal expansion or temperature rise in the slab. Both are unrealistic.”

“We conducted a series of 21 standard fire tests [...] There was no indication that shear stud failure could cause premature failure.”

“When the beam subsequently buckles, it is also removed from the analysis. This is quite unrealistic.” (i.e. the NIST analysis says that a bent beam ceases to exist as a structural member).

“This analysis appears to produce a gross underestimate of strength.”

“The thermal response calculations appear strange.”

And perhaps most tellingly:

“The proposed method of analysis of WTC7 does not appear to have been previously applied to any known cases, such as standard fire tests or the Cardington fire tests and varies considerably from previous analyses of such tests and experiments.”

Read it all here

http://wtc.nist.gov/comments08/davidProeandIanThomaswtc7comments.pdf

Part 1

I know that Craig’s budget for his blog probably doesn’t stretch to fancy stuff like Slash, but perhaps he should speak to his techie to see if something similar could be implemented – the idea is that posters can award points, positive or negative – to other posts, and then elect not to see posts below a certain point value. This means that Craig does not have to delete posts, something he tries to avoid, but at the same time any visitor who wants to separate signal from noise can screen out the work of professional noise generators like angrysoba.

To an extent it is worth seeing their posts, however, as it does give one a picture of the strength of the case against those who dispute the official accounts of 9/11 and 7/7: they’re just nutjobs, wingnuts, fruitcakes, tinfoil hat wearers and morons. Who could resist such persuasive argument?

Oops – sorry for partial double post – thought it had thrown out the first as too long.

anno

Yes, I agree that ‘politics is now polarised between the Brown -Obama all grasping Zionist banking New World Order on the one side , and conscience and Islam on the other..’

But also that there’s a growing gap between those that have and those that are losing. Many of those that have have been rewarded with positions in companies especially security companies, many of which I believe have been set up with funds secretly diverted from the taxpayers ie through VAT carousel fraud etc

“why didn’t he go to the toiler”

He did. perhaps he was too scared to go through with it and left it too late to prime the explosives ? Perhaps he ran out of time and got booted out when the plane began its descent so he had to do it in his seat? That would be my personal bet, that he shat himself until it was almost too late but I don’t know. None of you know. But to assume it is just some sort of CIA plot marks you out as arseholes, not visionaries.

He didn’t succeed, that doesn’t mean he was set-up to fail – it almost certainly means that he was a useless little twat.

I agree with Vronksy, sometimes I feel this site desperately needs a slashdot style moderation system.

I actually think there is some truth to both what the ‘shills’ and the ‘tin foil hat’ wearers are saying. But due to the tedious and pointless fighting there is no way any useful information can emerge.

Plenty of people like to make ‘right wing’ comments or question conspiracy theories without being in the pay of big brother. Just as many people see problems with state and corporate power without being paranoid.

If someone is being a fuckwit, just ignore them or rationally debunk their position with facts. DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS.

Oh and BTW the comments about this being a ‘brit’ site seem kinda stupid considering it’s on the internet. Also the content of Craig’s blog and books is relative to many people from all over the world.

AngrySoba

The point is not so much that their behaviour was inconsistent with being radical Muslims (although I submit whichever spook came up with the idea of them leaving a copy of the Koran behind in the lap-dancing bar needs to do his homework more thoroughly), it’s that their behaviour was clearly designed to draw attention to them so the flatfoots could pick up their well-advertised trail immediately after the attack.

Does the Jackal walk into a bar on the eve of an attempted assassination, get drunk, shout ‘Death to the President!’, and leave his ‘Jackal the Assassin’ business card on the counter before leaving? of course not. But the hijackers did. Lee Harvey Oswald (together with a series of look-alikes – yeah, I know, scoff -) went around causing trouble and announcing his name everywhere. Went to a rifle range and shot his neighbour’s target, argued and shouted out his name etc. Another LHO hitchhiked to Dallas carrying a long thin package which he told the driver contained curtained rods, told him his name, spent the whole journey fantasising about assassinating the President from the roof of a building, showed the driver a photo of him holding a rifle and asked if he thought it would be suitable for an assassination attempt. He got out at the Texas Book Depository, then took the ‘curtain rods’ inside the building etc. Real assassins don’t behave like this.

Similarly the hijackers left a trail of breadcrumbs behind for the gullible: One group of Arabs checked out of a hotel leaving behind a duffel bag containing Boeing 757 manuals, FAA flight path maps for the East Coast, a flight map protractor, three Ju-Jitsu martial arts books, oh and ?” for the slow learners ?” a box cutter in the room.

KingofWelsh,

is it not also the case that Mohammad Attas’ suitcase was the only one pulled off the flight and his will and other incriminating stuff was found in it? These are not theories – these and other pertinent details are called facts.

Thanks to Frazer Rhisiart , Ruth and Glenn for keeping this debate alive with their sensible and interesting points.

I for one am not interested in managing trolls who come here to obfuse and engage us in their agenda. We know who they are, why they are here and for what purpose, usually its when you hit a chink in their armour that they come out to play.

The points about extremism always finding a way to hurt us is true.

The question has to be raised as to why the CIA, after being warned by his dad, let this man bord a plane, who is the weakest link and failed to spot this mislead young man.

The breach of Yemens territory by a US drone many years back and their subsequent judge juror and execution of suspected terrorist in a car, led us to discuss the death of sovereignity.

That event was also the first strike that ignited yemenis and made them join Al quaeda. This action is directly related to that event and to the western sponsored Saudi intrusions of late.

Obamas pre election promises have all disappeared in the quagmire of his day to day politicking. Sending an extra 35.000 to Afghanistan will act like a magnet to believers of fundamentalists faith and Pakistan must be worried after arresting five american muslims with advanced plans for nuclear installations in the pockets.

I also fear that Iarn has been softened up enough now by our black ops and will soon provide distraction from the ghetto situation in Gaza.

Currently the peace march, distributing help and highlighting the unchaged and dire situation in Gaza, some 1400 marchers has been halted by Egyptian police, they are holed up some 40 m iles off the Gaza border. A chap I know Peter Orford, an art therapist who was hoping to distribute art material to the traumatised children of Gaza, has contacted the Norwich EDP and protested against their incarceration by riot police who have surrounded the village their were staying in.

As I was just trying to look up the article and send you a link, it had disappeared from the EDP website, even a search for the story on their own search engine, did not reveal the article I read earlier on, it has been pulled from above…sorry.

Anybody heard of it?

King of Welsh Noir,

All I can say is that it sounds like the hijackers did incriminate themselves. But then again, why would they care about being incriminated by anyone after the event? They wanted to be martyrs and they probably wanted the world to know who did the deeds.

This isn’t surprising if they were committing a suicidal attack. They’d probably have been shocked if they knew that despite giving every indication of who carried out 9/11 and why there are still people saying, “Yeah right! Everyone knows it was the New World Order wot done it!”

I saw a picture of a “Lee Harvey Oswald lookalike” once. He looked nothing like Oswald. And would Oswald have yakked on about killing the president before doing so? Why not? He was also later implicated in the attempted assassination of Major General Edwin Walker with the same gun seven months earlier. And then of course Oswald shot and killed Officer Tippett in front of witnesses (one of whom picked Oswald out of an identity parade – where are those “lookalikes” when you need them?)while fleeing the scene.

Anyway, we’re now really going off topic so let’s get back to the flight from Amsterdam to Detroit.

There has apparently been a claim of responsibility for the attack by a group calling itself “al Qaeda” as a group with the same name claimed responsibility for 9/11.

How authentic it is I don’t know.

After ringing up the paper, the link mysteriously appeared again, here it is.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/content/edp24/news/story.aspx?brand=EDPOnline&category=News&tBrand=EDPOnline&tCategory=xDefault&itemid=NOED28%20Dec%202009%2018%3A21%3A31%3A437

What is the fascination with Amsterdam?.Robin Reid used the exact same airport to fly to of all places,Israel.Saajid Badat,I bet people have forgotten about him,intended to fly into Amsterdam just to fly out again en route to blowing himself up on the way to America,the exact same scenario.Of course Badat was trained in non explosive,explosives in Afghanistan whereas Abdul Muttalad was trained in non explosive underpants in Yemen.Obama will be extending the war on terror into Yemen based on yet another false flag operation and they did not even have to change the script.

“What is the fascination with Amsterdam?.”

It’s a busy hub. People change planes there, a lot. Just ask Craig Murray.

Eyewitnesses on the plane have reported that a ‘mystery’ cameraman filmed the whole flight. Interesting detail.

Dont believe any of the MSM narrative..

Just another spook patsy methinks…

Apart from the “strangeness” surrounding this episode, doesn’t it indicate how difficult it actually is to get a fully-functional bomb on a plane?

As far as I can acertain, this particular explosive, is characterized by its “stability” making it a very safe explosive for industrial and military purposes, it needs a proper detonator to cause an explosion. Detonators on the other hand tend to be relatively unstable and dangerous to play around with.

I think this Nigerian kid was a bit of nutter, who didn’t really know what he was doing, a bit like the shoe-bomber.

While we’re talking about the media, isn’t it telling that our media is so concerned with a pathetic attempt to blow up an airliner, and at the same time our far more successful and bloody attacks on the enemy, receive so little coverage?

One could mention the Israeli attacks on Gaza and the West Bank. The American attacks on the border areas of Afghanistan and Pakistan, the recent bombings in Yemen. It’s not as if we are merely passive in the “war of terror”, we are on the offensive and our level of “success” in killing the enemy far outweighs their terrorist efforts targetting us, yet somehow we have the notion that we are the true victims.

Won’t the scale of our bombardments and killing of civilians, in our efforts to get at the “bad men” come back to haunt us as blowback at some future date? Or do we think that death rained from the sky when we do it is somehow different from the violence of terrorism? Are some types of mass slaughter and atrocity, “good” and “just”, whilst others are not? That self-righteous prick Obama certainly seems to think so.

An Israeli firm controls security at Amsterdam airport by the way. Same with all the 9/11 flights. I guess saying this must make me an ‘anti-semite’ or something, but what the hell!

Craig, they are wrecking your blog. My advice is to block their IP addresses. If a new wave appear with new names and new IP addresses it will show just how bad the situation is. You can at least then post up your actions and what happened after that. Once you out them right into the light they don’t have any percentage to continue. Trust me on this. I remember a previous post of yours Craig. It was entitled ‘You Are All Going To Die’ or something. Good post and i’d already come to terms with my death, as you have. Don’t let these freaks mess up your great blog. Rememeber how they tried to cause havoc during your election campaign as well? They are just scumbags. I hope you had a great Christmas and I wish you great strength and happiness for the New Year Craig. All the best to you. Cheers.

This is what is happening to Craig’s site:

http://www.infowars.com/israel-recruits-army-of-bloggers-to-troll-anti-war-websites/

Israel Recruits Army Of Bloggers To Troll Anti-War Websites

Text size

Paul Joseph Watson

Prison Planet.com

Monday, January 19, 2009

Israel has announced that it is setting up a network of bloggers to combat websites deemed “problematic” by the Zionist state, presumably to propagandize about the necessity of killing babies and infants in the name of self-defense.

Israel’s global reputation for being the new Nazis was already firmly established, but the ceaseless and indiscriminate bombing of Gaza, labeled a war crime by international observers, has hardened opinion against the country and this has manifested itself nowhere more than the world wide web.

Israel’s response will be to flood the Internet with PR agents who will attempt to create a phony consensus that the ZIonist state’s barbarian actions are justifiable.

According to a report in Haaretz, the Immigrant Absorption Ministry is setting up “an army of bloggers” who will “represent” Israel on “anti-Zionist blogs” in English, French, Spanish and German.

A d v e r t i s e m e n t

The ministry’s director-general Erez Halfon told Haaretz that over a million people who speak a second language are being targeted in a recruiting drive that will then direct the volunteers to web sites deemed “problematic.” Presumably their mission would be to troll comment boards and forums with pro-Zionist arguments, a public relations stunt that we have seen employed by other entities such as Monsanto and more recently Centcom and the U.S. Air Force.

Such ongoing efforts to infiltrate the Internet and propagandize for the war on terror are well documented.

CENTCOM has programs underway to infiltrate blogs and message boards to ensure people, “have the opportunity to read positive stories,”presumably about how Iraq is a wonderful liberated democracy and the war on terror really is about protecting Americans from Al-CIAda.

In May 2008, it was revealed that the Pentagon was expanding “Information Operations” on the Internet with purposefully set up foreign news websites, designed to look like independent media sources but in reality carrying direct military propaganda.

More recently the New York Times published an expose on privately hired operatives who have been appearing on all major US news networks promoting the interests and operations of the Pentagon and generating favorable news coverage of the Bush administration while posing as independent military analysts.

This operation was formally announced In 2006 when the Pentagon set up a unit to “better promote its message across 24-hour rolling news outlets, and particularly on the internet”.

Again, the Pentagon said the move would boost its ability to counter “inaccurate” news stories and exploit new media.

Just over a week ago, the US Air Force announced a “counter-blog” response plan aimed at fielding and reacting to material from bloggers who have “negative opinions about the US government and the Air Force.”

The plan, created by the public affairs arm of the Air Force, includes a detailed twelve-point “counter blogging” flow-chart that dictates how officers should tackle what are described as “trolls,” “ragers,” and “misguided” online writers.

Arsalan Goldberg: Interestingly enough, this ‘infowars’ website belongs to the same Alex Jones that our trolls/spoilers mentioned. I haven’t got much time for Jones, but he’s certainly rattled some cages with his stand against the murderous, racist form of Zionism practiced against Palestine.

Dick Army’s fake grass-roots organisation “FreedomWorks” does exactly the same thing, sending out messages to politicians, newspapers etc. etc. by the million, which look very much as if they came independently from concerned individuals. Attacking progressive message-boards , blogs and so on is part of the process. Which is why they react so much upon being rumbled. There’s nothing to gain by engaging with them – most are “drive-by” style posts, and you would not get these shills to admit that water is wet.

They do target the more popular and important forums – which means they are actually paying a complement to Mr. Murray and the regular participants here. Removal of their posts, registration with delayed activation, or a token payment for registration is the best way of stopping this infestation. After all, the money could be used for a good charity if the blog owner does not want it.

Wow. People around here get their news from an Alex Jones website.

Never saw that coming!

In what must be the best post in the history of the Internet, Jaded

1. claims that

“An Israeli firm controls security at Amsterdam airport by the way. Same with all the 9/11 flights. I guess saying this must make me an ‘anti-semite’ or something, but what the hell!”

and then

2. demands that anyone who disagrees with him be banned.

This is the funniest website ever.

“Wow. People around here get their news from an Alex Jones website.”

Well, if you and yours do not want me to, then I will make sure I will.

Look at this guy, first off he tried to get the Non-Muslims here to hate Muslims with the excuse “They want everyone to become Muslim”, as if there is a religion out there that doesn’t want every person out there to see the light, there own light!

And now he want to set the anti Alex Jones people to start fighting with the Pro.

I am not against A J and I’m not for him. I judge what he says the same way I judge whatever anyone else says.

Now my message to everyone here is, yes we disgree with each other on many things. But we need to unite.

I know next to nothing about Alex Jones, but the fact that he is against the Zionist war machine means we can work with him.

The fact that the likes of Larry do not want us to work with him means we must do so.

The enemy of our enemy is not our enemy.

So yes, we may disagree with the enemy of our enemy, but that doesn’t make him our enemy.

And I bet the likes of Larry are in Alex Jones pages using other names telling him and his to stay away from us! I bet they are there telling them to stay away from Liberals like Craig and Muslim Extremists like myself.

So lets all work togeather and do what the right wing nutters don’t want us to do, which is work togeather and win.

anno

When we get down to the wire politics is now polarised between the grasping Zionist banking New World Order on the one side and conscience and Islam on the other.

Yes I have modified your statement because politicians are only the worker bees in an elitist system of psychopaths willing to sacrifice their own in a quest for total world power.

In words of another here, such a system is evil in its every manifestation. We recall creatures like Madeleine Albright who opined that the murder of 500,000 Iraqi children under the ruthless sanctions regime that she was complicit in enforcing, was a price that was “worth it”, are free to wander the earth, promoting hatred and the threat of inflicting similar evil on Iranian children, while lecturing the world on good and evil. Other war criminals with blood up to their arm-pits, like Tony Blair and George W Bush, cash in on their savagery, richly rewarded for their service to the Judeo-Christian world empire.

Even ‘the peoples’ BBC has been changed by an ‘engineered’ catalyst that saw the murder of Dr David Kelly in a conspiracy to oust the Governors and herald in the ‘Trustees’ (have you noticed the difference) to bring our BBC in tow.

Sorry for the rant but as a veteran who lost his best mate in the Falklands war and having seen the broken bodies in Iraq, the disabled babies, the facially disfigured who are constantly mocked and the thousands of orphans begging for food, I despise those that have cashed in on the savagery, genocide, murder, violence, destruction and hatred.

Yes, conscious rules for me, and those the like of ‘anno’ will prevail; the elitist psychopaths, the capitalist type par excellence, that have tried their best to create a ruling caste will be overcome by using the now feared technology of mass communication to combine our strengths and build a mycelium rich in our substrate that will be used to destroy the matrix of death, power and greed.

By tony_opmoc, December 29 at 2:44 pm #

Whilst, it is possible that this story has been accurately reported, the reaction to it is totally ridiculous. People simply will not put up with regular examination of their most intimate orifices, nor having the use of such orifices barred for significant periods whilst in flight, nor from being prevented from reading a book.

Any such attempts will result in either the complete destruction of the normal airline industry or extremely messy and smelly aircraft. Perhaps they can put straw on the floor instead?

The entire obsession with aircraft security in response to such terrorist attacks – even if genuine – does absolutely nothing to improve aircraft security. It is a complete illusion. Having a dog sniffing Granny’s bum for plastic explosives will not make the aircraft any safer. A real terrorist who is serious, will be sufficiently intelligent to bypass such outrages. He would for example, apply for a job in baggage security – or become an aircraft cleaner – amd do a good job for months until he had gained the trust of his fellow employees. Such people – and there are many thousands at every major airport, do not go through the same security checks as Granny who just wants to see her family at Christmas or go on holiday.

The real motivation, behind this lunacy appears to intimidate and control people who want to travel in aircraft legitimately. It is showing them – who the boss is – and humiliating them to accept even more draconian controls.

Check out the Power of Nightmares to finally realise who the real terrorists are. Its not idiots who set their own pants on fire.

There is nothing particularly special about aircraft with regards to the threat they pose to human life. Schools, Hospitals, Container Ships, Oil, Gas & Chemical Storage Plants, Water and Food supplies offer far more potential to people who want to do dastardly things.

We have got to take all this crap because of 9/11, yet even the 9/11 commission themselves said that the story that they produced was simply not true. Until we investigate and find out who the real terrorists are, then things will continue to get worse, and ordinary completely honest people will continue to be humiliated for simply wanting to travel.

Tony

By tony_opmoc, December 29 at 3:59 pm #

A few airports in certain parts of the World still have smoking rooms, yet rigorously check all your luggage for cigarette lighters and remove them if found.

But you can of course buy a cigarette lighter in duty free…

Most airports thought – well this is silly, but the sillyness was such that no you can’t buy a cigarette lighter – but you can have as many “safety matches” as you like…

So if you are a smoker, the chances are in over 99% of flights you will be allowed – either a cigarette lighter – or potentially – even more dangerous safety matches…

And also in Duty Free in Most parts of the World, once you have had your bottles of water removed, you can openly buy extremely high alcohol content brandy and vodka…

If you really want to – you can set your pants on fire in an aircraft – producing exactly the same flair effect as this Nigerian Son of a Former Government Minister and CEO of a Bank…

Not only that, if you are blonde, beautiful and completely fly-away in your fairy way of wanting to buy “pretty things” in duty free – where you have to show your boarding card to buy even a bottle of extremely expensive water – and lose your boarding card… .

You can get away with me screaming at my wife “You Stupid Cow”…

and so she tries to pass off – at the next level of security – an earlier boarding card…

And they say – No that is the wrong one…

So we sneak back and I say – shut up – and don’t say a word…

We try again and go through together with a huddle – with her hiding behind me. I am a fat bastard – she is really slim…

So we get to the tarmac – and actually get on the aircraft – one of the last ones on…

And he says – where is your boarding card – and our kids are already in their seats… .

And I say – the stupid cow has lost it…

He says she can’t have lost it…

I say – it maybe in her bag – or maybe the kids have it…

So he says – well show it to me later…

Otherwise – I would have left her the other side of the World… .

Now – we will stay at home

I got robbed of all my money the last time on the way to the airport

Its too much trouble

Blackpool here we come

Tony

So Tony – in addition to being an apologist for terrorists – you seem like an actual terrorist. True?

Arsalan Goldberg: Alex Jones is an odd kettle of fish. He likes to be anti-establishment and hits a good note once in a while, but then blows any credibility built up with wild, lurid speculation and outright lies on other topics. I do support a number of his chosen causes, but could not possibly be a AJ “follower”. Right wing stooges only understand about leaders and faithful followers.

This is where we are different to the right-wing. They hear an authoritarian voice, snap the right-arm salute, and fall into line. They’ll goose-step off a cliff following one of their Great Leaders (eg, “Insane” McCain, Michele “crazy-eyes” Bachmann, Sarah “ho from wasilla” Palin, “dead-eye” Dick Cheney, Glen “suicide boy” Beck and so on), and assume their more logical, courageous, compassionate counterparts on the left do the same. However – we don’t want to just follow on the left, and very much have our own opinions. That’s why we disagree with Craig Murray every now and again, for often, and he with us.

Right-wing types, however, are in lockstep when it comes to beliefs such as the following:

- Obama is a secret Muslim

- Obama was born in Kenya, and has no US birth certificate

- Obama is a communist, a Marxist AND and fascist (yeah, go figure…)

- “Death panels” are being set up to kill off republicans/ grannie/ and YOU

- Concentration camps are being set up for republicans

- Obama’s health care will deny coverage for republicans

- Democrats are going to take away peoples’ guns, Bibles, money and freedom

- Every word said on Fox News is true

- Iraq attacked the US on 11/Sept/2001

- Iraq DID have WMD and must have given them away

… and that list could be 100 times longer.

Trolls/spoilers are best ignored, and talked about, not to, as feeding trolls encourages them. Small time paid stooges are best weeded out by the site admin.

These stooges that start hanging out here must be very old, or badly disabled, because – for sure – there’s never been a war they didn’t like, but instead of being over there fighting them Teer’sts for Freed’m an’ Democracy, they let others do the fighting, killing and dying.

Glenn,

You’re really not that intelligent, are you? You live in a world of false dichotomy – i.e., if someone doesn’t believe your crap, they must have the beliefs described by you above.

I don’t believe in any of those above.

But I don’t think you possess the mental capacity to understand that.

And now, after accusing me of being a paid shill who believes that Obama is a secret Muslim, you’re gonna whine and whine and whine because I called you stupid.

Heh Glenn, do you believe, as Anno believes that “nobody here believes that Obama had a Muslim education, except in order to be able to pose as a friend to Islam.”

Do you believe what Jaded wrote:

“An Israeli firm controls security at Amsterdam airport by the way. Same with all the 9/11 flights. I guess saying this must make me an ‘anti-semite’ or something, but what the hell!”

Just how much do you align yourself with Texan right-wing nutjob Alex Jones – as much as Arsalan Goldberg?

Glenn,

I failed to mention that Alex Jones and his crew are also crazy Christians. That is, they believe that the end times are coming, and harbor a number of crazy beliefs.

So you’ve aligned yourself with nutjob Christians and nutjob Muslims – what is wrong with you?

Myself – I haven’t aligned myself with religious crazies of any stripe.

I didn’t know the Alex Jones was a extremist Christian, if that is what he is, I am pleased for him.

I am pleased for all the extremist Jews too.

The people who I hate are the right wing false Christians, and the Zionist false Jews and their false Muslim Friends.

Look, I am a true Muslim so I am antiZionist. While the false Muslims such as Quliam and the Qadianis are all Zionists.

I’ve seen the same thing when Christianity. All the mainstream sects are AntiZionist. While those money grabbing heretics in America are all Zionists.

The same thing applies with Jews. The ones that believe in God and the Torah such as Natricarter and satmer are Antizionists while those open atheists who claim to be Jews purely on racist grounds are Zionists. Even the founder of Zionism Theodor Hertzel was an open atheist.

Borat here never fails to deliver.

Larry the Jesus and the Bible, as well as the Torah, the Quran and the books of every other religion are against America and its wars.

Every Religion forbids usury, while usury is what America is based on. Usury is the cause of all of its wars and Usury is the god the rulers of America and their Zionist masters worship above God.

So I am happy to work with God worshiping Christians like Alex Jones and God worshiping Jews like Natricater against you and your Godless usurious masters as well as all of your godless friends whether they are those atheists in Israel, or those right wingers who wrongly claim to be christian and even those heretics who claim to be Muslim while supporting Zionism and Usury.

Please. Don’t. Feed. The. Trolls.

(They’re not even good at it)

Arsalan, for the non-Muslims around here, could you please explain the penalty of apostacy? That is, if one is born into Islam and thereafter decides to leave it, what is to happen to him/her?

“right wingers who wrongly claim to be christian”

and claim that the USA is a Christian country – set up as such.

How Jesus could associate himself with much of what the USA has done since 9/11 is way, wayyyyy beyond me. I have a bumper sticker that asks, “Who would Jesus torture?” and I’m still using it. Transferred from car to car.

‘Larry’ I’ve told you – stop following me around, concentrate on the ‘job’ and go back to WaPo – that is an order. (lol)

There are various sources for this:

“That commenter on your blog may actually be working for the Israeli government”

http://tinyurl.com/l95vx7

and

“Israel backed by army of cyber-soldiers” (which mentions the ‘megaphone’ software)

The Times, July 28, 2006

http://tinyurl.com/2b9rlz

dreoilin I first read about it in a Zionist Israeli newspaper which was advertising for it, asking people to join their cyber army.

Larry your not changing my topic. I’m here to talk about usury and how God hates it. You here to get us to fight amongst ourselves to stop us fighting your usurious masters.

The book of the Jews says:

[Exodus 22:25] “If thou lend money to any of my people that is poor by thee, thou shalt not be to him as an usurer, neither shalt thou lay upon him usury.”

The book of the christians says:

Luke 6:35 says “But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great”.

The Book of the Muslims says:

Those who charge usury are in the same position as those controlled by the devil’s influence. This is because they claim that usury is the same as commerce. However, God permits commerce, and prohibits usury. Thus, whoever heeds this commandment from his Lord, and refrains from usury, he may keep his past earnings, and his judgment rests with God. As for those who persist in usury, they incur Hell, wherein they abide forever (Al-Baqarah 2:275)

The book of the Hindus says:

“A brahmana should avoid service of the king, wealth obtained by agriculture, sustenance derived from trade, all kinds of crooked behaviour, companionship with any but his wedded wives, and USURY. That wretched Brahmana who falls away from his duties and whose behaviour becomes wicked, becomes, O king, a Sudra”

The Book of the Bodhists says:

The Buddha mentions five specific kinds of livelihood which bring harm to others and are therefore to be avoided: dealing in weapons, in living beings (including raising animals for slaughter as well as slave trade and prostitution), in meat production and butchery, in poisons, and in intoxicants (AN 5:177). He further names several dishonest means of gaining wealth which fall under wrong livelihood: practicing deceit, treachery, soothsaying, trickery, and usury (MN 117).

So it doesn’t matter what religion someone believes in. God Hates Usury, and God hates your usurious Zionist masters, and the usury America is based on.

dreoilin: Perhaps you haven’t heard of the newspeak Bible, which aims to get rid of all the “liberal bias” which swamps the New Testament. So saying the meek will inherit the earth, that blessed are the poor, this that you do for the least amongst you you do in My name etc. etc. will all be done away with.

Thus:

“It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for

a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.” (Matthew 19:24)

Becomes:

“It is easier for [...] a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.”

(New, Improved Matthew 19:24)

Those Calvinists had it right all along!

Here’s where these whack-jobs go to hone their ideas:

http://conservapedia.com/Conservative_Bible_Project

“Who would Jesus torture?” is a good rejoinder to the right-wing e-van-gell-ic-al Kristians, who no more want peace on Earth or to be a Good Samaritan than a cat bids peace to all mice. “Who would Jesus bomb?” is another. Maybe another still, if not so pithy, would be “Would Jesus sign up to invade and occupy a country which never attacked us?” But the sniveling cowards on the right would answer “anyone except me” (to the torture question), “Every brown-skinned people” (to the bombing question), and “somebody else, but not me, no sir!” (to the “who will sign up for the armed services” question).

“Jesus and the Bible, as well as the Torah, the Quran and the books of every other religion are against America and its wars.”

–Arsalan Goldberg

So many religions have what’s often called the “golden rule” or “the ethic of reciprocity”, that it has a page to itself on Wiki, with examples that pre-date all the major (current) religions. Known to Christians as “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” Unfortunately, there seems to be little of it around among certain Christians these days.

Those who rant against gays, claim to be pro-life but are also pro-death penalty, pro-war and pro-massive-military-spending in the USA (while against any spending on ‘public option’ health care) and who often/mostly proclaim themselves Christian, appear to be operating on the basis that, “if we *think* that you *may* have killed one of us, we will kill thousands of you in revenge for each of those people, and poison your land and deform your children for generations”.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Rule_(ethics)

———————-

“Perhaps you haven’t heard of the newspeak Bible”

–Glenn

Read about it recently and I thought, NOW I’ve seen everything!

Our governments are holy since they lend to the banks without interest or difficult repayment plans.

-

I find it remarkable how the historical Jesus didnt write anything down himself, that he just left his messages to be reported by his followers. That may have been a mistake.

-

Glenn, i particularly rated your summary of alex jones.

“So it doesn’t matter what religion someone believes in. God Hates Usury, and God hates your usurious Zionist masters, and the usury America is based on.”

–Arsalan

As far as I know, the Roman Catholic Church was still condemning usury in the 12th and 13th centuries.

Tsk tsk, re-drafting mid-post often turns out a mess:

Correction to what I posted at at December 29, 2009 9:47 PM

“if we *think* that you *may* have killed one of us, we will kill thousands of you in revenge for that person, and poison your land and deform your children for generations”.

Heh Glenn, do you believe, as Anno believes that “nobody here believes that Obama had a Muslim education, except in order to be able to pose as a friend to Islam.”

Do you believe what Jaded wrote:

“An Israeli firm controls security at Amsterdam airport by the way. Same with all the 9/11 flights. I guess saying this must make me an ‘anti-semite’ or something, but what the hell!”

Just how much do you align yourself with Texan right-wing nutjob Alex Jones – as much as Arsalan Goldberg?

Arsalan, for the non-Muslims around here, could you please explain the penalty of apostacy? That is, if one is born into Islam and thereafter decides to leave it, what is to happen to him/her?

“I find it remarkable how the historical Jesus didnt write anything down himself”

Neither did the historical Zeus, or the historical Osiris, or the historical Dionysus, or the historical Father Christmas for that matter, so par for the course really. Just goes to show that these half man, half divine saviours of humanity were an illiterate bunch.

Yep, this man is a sad case, just like the “shoe bomber”, not a serious threat – and his father had even warned officials at the US embassy in Nigeria about his contacts with Al Qa’ida well in advance.

I feel sorry for him, not afraid of him.

Al Qaeda, as a terrorist organisation, doesn’t exist Duncan. It’s a CIA fiction perpetuated through the mass media.

If you read the writings of Larry and his right wing gang you will soon realise that illiteracy has its merits.

Larry you are asking the question for yourself and not for the non-Muslims here. So if you want to change the topic you will have to do so yourself without my help.

If you want to know what Islam says on any issue go read the book of Islam.

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/

So if Non-Muslims here want to answer to that question or any other about Islam they can go find it themselves by reading the Quran.

I prefer talking about what you are trying to stop me talking about by changing the topic.

And that is America and how God hates it. God hates the fact that a bunch of Europeans went down there and killed the native population to steal their land. God hates the fact that they used shoes to stamp on the heads of native babies to save money on bullets. God hates the fact that you call that bringing freedom and democracy to the natives and still regard the killers as heroes. God hates the fact that America killed 2.5 million Vietnamese for no one knows what reason, and still treats those murderers as heroes. God hates the fact that America starves most of the world with its usury. God hates what America is doing to this planet with all the CO2 it produces. In other words, God hates you and God hates your Zionist usurious bastards that you worship above God.

MJ, I didnt mean to get stuck in. Historicaly speaking, Jesus was at least a very influential mystic, not a mythological character. Socrates didnt write anything himself either, but was better documented by his fellows.

Regardless of the bombers character etc. it is reported that he did very nearly bring down the plane, AND that security forces once again botched warnings and proceedures. I dread to wonder wether our accident prone security forces expected him to detonate or not.

Channel 4 News reported this evening that he was on MI5′s ‘radar’.

http://tinyurl.com/yj342wd

crab: I was only engaging in a bit of light-hearted banter, but I’m not aware of any good evidence that he was anything other than a mythological character. Eastern religions were full of half man half divine saviours with near-identical CVs: Horus, Mithras, Dionysus and Krishna to name but a few. There’s nothing to suggest JC should be seen any differently.

Arsalan Goldberg, even if I grant to you that (i) the Abrahamic God exists and (ii) he’s angry at America, I must point out that your god is quite an ineffective fellow. When can I expect your silly god to begin his reign of terror on America?

And the penalty for a person born into Islam and leaving your particular Middle Eastern cult is death. Everyone knows that.

Btw I just drew a picture of Mohammed and crossed it out. How ’bout them apples?

Early Christians never believed he was a halfman half god. They like Muslims believed that he was a Prophet of God like the Prophets who came before him, Abraham, Moses etc.

I mean really, Arsalan, if your god really does hate my usurious Zionist masters, and your god is all-powerful, wouldn’t your god have done something about it by now? It must be the case that your god really doesn’t care about you.

And since your god doesn’t seem to himself do anything about the situation, do you think he might use young Middle Eastern men as instruments of his rage? Would he be justified in doing so?

To all the non-Muslims English types at this blog – do you agree that god hates the usurious Zionist masters of America?Does this seem like the sort of discourse that should be tolerated?

Edward Stourton who has been replaced by total-dumb-down Justin Webb on Radio 4′s Today programme, knocked one million off the civilian casualty figure for the war in Iraq in his programme this week, Defining the Decade. Until recently the UK had concealed the figure of 60 million African Muslims who were exported in the Slave Trade. Maybe more statistics of UK colonialism will emerge in future.

But the Zionist controllers at the beeb may regret upsetting a member of the Stourton family, which has stubbornly resisted abandoning its Roman Catholic faith for the last four hundred years.

Stubborn-ness is the one quality that the fly-by-night Zio-pawns can’t deal with. If you don’t believe me, ask our soldiers in Afghanistan.

“Karzai condemns US for killing school children”

Afghan President Hamid Karzai protests the US military’s targeting of civilians after a US raid killed at least eight school children …

NATO’s International Security Assistance Force, also known as ISAF, has reportedly said it had no information on any operations or casualties in Kunar.

But a senior Western military official disclosed that US special forces have been conducting operations in the border regions of Kunar.

“They have been killing a lot of Taliban and capturing a lot of Taliban” during operations conducted independently of NATO and coalition forces, he told AFP on condition of anonymity.

The indiscriminate targeting of civilians prompted Kunar parliamentary representatives to storm out of an important debate on appointments to Karzai’s new cabinet in a show of protests.

Shuja Al-Malik, one of the parliamentarians representing Kunar, confirmed that “all the children were 12 to 18-year-olds belonging to an elementary religious school,” the BBC Persian reported.

Haji Farid, a lawmaker from the Kapisa province, said “every time an American soldier gets killed, they bomb an entire village. The president should determine to whom this country belongs. If [it belongs to] us, then the foreigners are bound to go by our rules.”

Ever-increasing civilian deaths in the 8 years of large foreign military presence since the US-led invasion of Afghanistan in 2001 have exhausted people in the war-weary nation.

http://tinyurl.com/yafg6yp

How ’bout them oranges?

I see the ‘pants-bomber’ man studied at University College London.

It must be those tutors…

http://tinyurl.com/ydjkhv5

Arsalan Goldberg: Damned well said. An atheist like myself can fully appreciate your calling these right-wing republican utter hypocrite “christians” for the sneaks, cowards and liars they are, as you do while pointing out how much their baby Jaysus would be so unhappy at their utterly un-Christian practices.

I’d recommend completely ignoring these thugs, weasels, cowardly apologists and sore losers when they post on this board. Their 100% negative ravings infest every progressive outlet, even those only giving solid news where comments are allowed (for example, http://www.rawstory.com). There are thousands of examples there, that rawstory is no longer what it was, it’s a lefty-conspiracy site, that it’s all funded by George Soros and (err… err.. who else, mass’r?), and that Big Business is who we should actually salute and trust. You can trust these people making right-wing comments. Because they sound tough/n’/hard and call everyone who disagrees fools.

Tough like Dick Cheney, Glen Beck, Dubbya himself, Limbaugh, Ashcroft, John Bolton, “Newt” Gingrich, Giuliani, Sean Hannity, Bill O’Reilly, Richard Perl, Ken Starr, Wolfowitz and Michael “Savage” Weiner… the whole bloody lot of them. Utter, baseless cowards, hiding being the Stars&Stripes banner while demanding others make the Ultimate Sacrifice… for what, again? Oh yessir, for making their paymasters ever richer.

http://www.nhgazette.com/chickenhawks/

Strange that these filthy, cowardly, murderous and bloodthirsty bastards who infest these blogs would never consider Military Service for themselves or their families. Craven scum, all of them. They should be begging for forgiveness for their crime of existing, instead of posting their “anti-left” excuses here.

I’m waiting for one of these miserable Yankee republican apologists, having entirely lost their game in the US to the “tea-baggers” (heh!), tell us in the UK that we ought to be doing things _their_ way, and all will become good and well in the world. They just don’t understand that non-Americans don’t knee-jerk a “yessir!” response to their prepared drivel.

I should mention, in case it wasn’t obvious… no “popular” right winger of any note, particularly in the media, has ever served a single day in the military. Despite all the hard talk, _every last one_ of these right-wing republicans is an utter coward, praising and promoting war and death, while hiding behind a very safe job. No service in the military, ever. Cowards, sneaks and liars. Republicans don’t like the hard end of their principles… that’s for others!

There is not one poster on this site who calls for war, that is not sitting comfortably at home. Worthless, cowardly, hypocritical, miserable bastards they are to a man (if they can be extended that description).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si0WTCMrksw

I hate these cowardly republicans. I _hate_ them. And they hate me. I welcome their hatred.

Heh Glenn, do you believe, as Anno believes that “nobody here believes that Obama had a Muslim education, except in order to be able to pose as a friend to Islam.”

Do you believe what Jaded wrote:

“An Israeli firm controls security at Amsterdam airport by the way. Same with all the 9/11 flights. I guess saying this must make me an ‘anti-semite’ or something, but what the hell!”

Just how much do you align yourself with Texan right-wing nutjob Alex Jones – as much as Arsalan Goldberg?

Glenn, we get it. You’re a hateful person. And not a very smart one, given that you’re convinced that I’m a Republican because I disagree with you. But I’m also accused of being an Israeli – which is it, folks?

I once attended a 911 conspiracy movie here in the States and asked a few questions and otherwise indicated that I didn’t agree with the movie. I was instantly labeled FBI, Secret Service and/or CIA. I didn’t mind it, though – these people were obviously a bit mentally ill.

The problem with Britain is that a great number of educated people like Glenn take their cues from Americans who suffer from narcissistic personality disorder and minor forms of schizophrenia and autism.

Again, Glenn, you’re just a hateful, clueless person. The more you write, the more any reasonable observer is convinced of this.

Yes, Al Qaeda is a CIA fiction perpetuated by the mass media with strong backing by Mossad, MI5 and MI6. Yes, that’s it.

The refreshing thing about Craig’s blog is that his briefest posts often hit the nail right on the head.This thread has continued unabated for days by the looks of it.

Yea,the guy’s too busy to moderate comments so Mossad undesirables et al get to throw in their penny worth.

So what? We can spot them a mile off.

What shouldn’t happen is that threads like this get moderated.It’s time consuming and detracts from the freedom of expression that makes the site so exciting in the first place.

If you don’t like the comments don’t read them!

My own view on the said Y-Front bomber is that from the way it’s being hyped by the BBC terrorologist team and Frank (Ironside) Gardiner you know from the get-go it’s state-sponsored false-flag terror yet again.

Israeli front-company involvement in Amsterdam airport security and the reports re-the Y-Fronts gaining access with the aid of an unidentified airport official point to the same dirty tricks psy-war ops teams.

Shampoo,shoe and now underpants bombers should wreak MI6-Mossad patsy to anyone with a brain half the size of a walnut.

People who are still taken in by such theatre and corporate media-sponsored hysteria must be retarded.Such incidents are patently faked not part of some Jihadist fight-back against the “War on Terror”.You might just as well be living in a cave wired up to receive the regular doses of corporate disinformation hysteria on which your parallel universe is constructed.

Get a life go to:

alquaedadoesntexist.com

You should need to understand something about the way false-flag terror has been instrumentalized by elites to forward their geopolitical aspirations and to control their domestic populations at home.

Larry, you seem to know what’s what, please could you explain why building 7 collapsed ?

7WTC collapsed because a large paraffin tank blew up, caught on fire by molten steel from one of the towers. It had been weakened by a large explosion around 9:30am witnessed by two Port Authority personnel who had reported for duty but were told to stand down.

Wait a minute – I think something is wrong with this account – let me check…

Larry – stand down – I outrank you – stop gathering intel for the watch list!

Larry, there’s no need to resort to jibes about drawing a picture of the prophet Mohammed and defacing it. To say that is to insult people who aren’t responsible for the demented conspiracy theories on offer here.

For everyone else I have provided a condensed version of this thread. Please let me know if I have missed anyone:

http://angrysoba.blogspot.com/2009/12/british-ambassador-and-his-loony.html

Willy Loman’s blog article on PETN:

http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2009/12/29/abcs-50-gms-of-petn-video-is-propaganda-and-i-have-the-proof/

It would seem that there is a whiff of propaganda in the air. But to what extent?

@angrysoba

Not really sure what that contributes mate. Didn’t know you had a blog though. Having a had a quick look I’m not really sure precisely what that advances either, unless it’s your propensity to pick arguments with idiots.

Larry

We all know what you are up to with comments like this:

“Heh Glenn, do you believe, as Anno

Do you believe what Jaded wrote:

“An Israeli nutjob Alex Jones – as much as Arsalan Goldberg?”

We know you want us to hate each other but it wont work.

Look Larry, we hate you. We don’t hate each other. And nothing you or your right wing gang will say will change that.

Yes we disagree with each other on many things. The things you listed and a million other things. But even though we disagree we don’t hate each other because we are too busy hating you and the usurious Zionists you worship above god. And nothing you can say can change that so crawl back under your rock.

Larry your comment about why doesn’t my God destroy your Zionist usurious masters show ignorance of every religion not just mine.

This is because it assumes that God had wanted to make this world as a utopia. That isn’t what this world was designed as in any religion, not just Islam.

Heaven is heaven, and this world is not heaven, it wasn’t designed as heaven, it wasn’t intended as heaven. Heaven is the place you have chosen to forsake by siding with your murderous usurious masters above God. All religions believe in that place whether they call it Nirvana like the dermic religions, Jannah like the Muslims or Valhalla like the ancient viking religions. But you seem completely ignorant of this fact assuming instead that God is trying to make this planet in to Heaven if he could.

Your question about why God doesn’t destroy your masters and their evil if he hates you and your masters so much shows complete and utter ignorance about the purpose of this world.

This world is an exam with no retakes. This world is a choice where humanity chooses their final destination. In this world you and your masters have chosen to spend the next in eternal punishment due to choosing Gold over God. you choose to steal from the poor instead of earning the bounty of God through hard work and faith because you have chosen the pleasures of evil over the eternal pleasures of the next life.

God allows you and your masters to do evil because God is allowing you and your masters to dig their pits in Hell, and larry, you and your masters are digging those pits really deep. And instead of filling them up with good deeds you and your masters are digging them deeper with every day that God allows you to live. And that is where you together with your usurious Zionist masters will spend the rest of eternity, in the deepest pits of hell, because that is where you have chosen in this life.

And Larry. The fact that God created you and your evil masters is also our way of rising in Heaven. Just as you dig yourself deeper in hell by what you do, we protect ourselves from hell by opposing you and your baby killing masters. If God hadn’t created you and your evil, or would have destroyed you early on, we would not have been able to do our good deeds of opposing you and your masters.

As a Muslim I have to give a lot in charity. I think it has been estimated that Muslims give 5 times higher than the national average in charity. If God didn’t create evil people like you and your usurious masters who steal from people with usury driving them in to poverty, who would I give charity too?

So your question about why God created your evil masters really boils down to “why did God allow people to do evil?”, the answer to that question is for people to be able to choose to do Good. God allows us to sin so we can repent. And some do and are forgiven, but others don’t. They continue to do evil right up to the point when God takes their soul. And in the next life, the eternal life, they deserve each and every eternal punishment God gives them

“Look Larry, we hate you.”

…and the beat goes on.

Why don’t you all just exchange email addresses and then you can have a go at each other in private?

Oh, by the way, not that I am a frequent commenter to this site, but welcome to craigmurray.org, Larry.

Rob to stop you tearing your face off I’ll push things back in to your direction.

There are a lot of young angry Muslims out there. They know what is happening is wrong and they want to do something to stop it, anything.

Most of the people who speak for them have sold out, or remain silent in the face of this slaughter. So they don’t know what to do, all they know is they must do something, anything. They know they are to young and ignorant to know what they should do themselves so they just await of look for someone to tell them what to do, so they can do it. These people are very easy to recruit by agent provocateurs.

I think when I was that age I would have made a very good patsy.

Thank you Arsalan.

You raise a good point.

Incidentally, the NYT has just put up a longish article of some relevance – Obama’s incredibly short deadline for a prelimnary assessment of the thwarted bomb-attempt is due TOMORROW.

According to CNN, the US is already gearing up for retaliatory strikes in Yemen (say two unnamed security sources).

And I’m sure we will be seeing body scanners in airports soon.

Given his father had already warned the US Embassy (and the CIA station chief therein, presumably) of his son’s tendencies, this is all, at best, tragically ironic.

@ Arsalan Goldberg at December 30, 2009 12:29 PM

Very well said.

good, i just brought fresh emo backgrounds 2 my blog

http://tinyurl.com/ycjxxjn

“Not really sure what that contributes mate. Didn’t know you had a blog though. Having a had a quick look I’m not really sure precisely what that advances either, unless it’s your propensity to pick arguments with idiots.
”

Hi Rob. I wasn’t attempting to pick an argument, but I do find it disturbing when all kinds of accusations about “false flags” are being thrown around on no evidence at all. In fact the evidence and the admission of responsibility seem to rule out a “false flag”.

I don’t think it is productive to start playing the Six Degrees From Tel Aviv game every time there’s a bombing or attempted bombing.

But, maybe something like this article would be a little more thought provoking:

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2009/12/29/terrorism/index.html

That Glenn Greenwald article is great.

I think he is particularly succinct when he covers the absence of any debate on motivation – terrorism has simply become an act of nihilistic evil. Some incredibly educated and intelligent people have gone down the route that islamic terrorism is the product of inherently evil islamofascism that must simply be eradicated out of existence by any means necessary. And, as Greenwald points out, this one-sidedness has gone on for nine years now.

And it explains a lot, I think. Some journalists have decided to categorise the noughties as the decade of terror, but I don’t think that is its chief characteristic. I have never felt much affected by terror – probably not all. Sure, that makes me lucky, but it probably makes me typical too.

I think the noughties will be hallmarked more by this public perception (one that is mostly correct?) that events and history are moving away from the people. We are at war and we don’t really know why, only that we were probably lied to about Iraq. We were attacked and we don’t know really know why either.

The collapse of traditional media news reporting has accelerated this. But in the absence of understanding, or even open debate, we trust our governments less and less.

It’s true that this has made for some feverish speculations and allegations, granted, and it has created an hysterical market for demagoguery (the sleep of reason etc etc), but it is also entirely understandable in context.

I don’t think that the evidence and admission of responsibility rule out a false flag (apologies if this sounds troofy). In fact, an admission of responsibility would be kind of necessary for a false flag, wouldn’t it?

I would feel better if I knew more about the Yemeni group that has admitted responsibility. Then again, as the Greenwald article suggests, if the US has already been waging a covert air war in Yemen over the last month, then I don’t suppose they really need a false flag, do they? They’re already in there.

Greenwald says there have already been US-inflicted civilian casualties there. More coming up too, I expect.

The US/UK strategy is plainly fucking idiotic. Or something devious dressed up as idiocy. Or… or…

Do you see what I mean? We live in age where we are stuffed with information every hour of every day, and we seem to be more clueless than we were before.

Oh, while I’m at it, we’ve still got the They Knew But Let It Happen thing to go over as well.

I mean, they clearly did know in this instance. Classic cock-up versus conspiracy dust-up waiting in the wings.

Son rebelling against successful father and his values… story unfolds to a background of conspiracy theories… isn’t this all reminiscent of the latest best-selling novel? Surely the paperback version isn’t about to be released sometime soon?

Someone tell me this level of cynicism is not healthy…

And now some good news:

“UK hostage Peter Moore released alive in Iraq” – BBC website.

Maybe there is a god…

“the evidence and the admission of responsibility seem to rule out a “false flag”".

Don’t follow your reasoning here. The fact that he boarded the plane without a passport raises issues for instance about identity. What documentation was used to identify him? Who was the well-dressed fellow who got him onto the plane? Who was the “mystery cameraman” who filmed the whole flight but appears not to have been tracked down as a key witness with important evidence?

Surely it’s too soon to be reaching any conclusions about the true nature of this incident.

to Arsehole Goldberg and the rest:

Keep it up, the troof will set you free!

What a bunch of losers.

Remember this, Craig, “a cracker is not just for Christmas”.

vildechaye – But Yad L’Achim isn’t working – hysterical scaremongering is so yesterday – don’t you agree?

Good news about Peter Moore.

But even that article kind of proves my point…

His dad going on about how “one or two people were working behind the scenes” to secure his release, but certainly not the FO, who he says “obstructed” his son’s release. And then the FO announcing that no conciliations were made.

It’s the kind of story that asks more questions than it answers – just the sort of thing that passes for news these days.

Incidentally, when was this kidnapping originally reported anyway? I can’t find anything.

I’m an Arab from Ramle in central Israel (now studying in the UK). someone mentioned ‘the mother of all illegal wars – the ethnic cleansing of Palestine”

funny that – all my family live in Ramle and there are loads of us in the Galilee and Negev areas. My uncle works in local government. i’m glad I’m an Israeli Arab and not in the surrounding countries.

Don’t know what “yad l’achim” is. The only hysterical thing is the extent towhich people like you and rest of the troofers here are in hysterical denial.

Hi Azeem.

People say all kinds of things on this site, as you may have gathered.

What’s it like being an Israeli Arab? I wouldn’t fancy living in the countries that surrounded Israel much myself I have to say. Maybe bits of Lebanon might be alright. I almost worked in Beirut once and it seemed appealing.

By the way, your English is VERY good.

In fact, I have to ask (please don’t think me rude), are you really an Israeli Arab?

Because people do a lot of retarded things on this site, and one of them might well be to pretend to be an Israeli Arab just to prove some kind of point. Which is a really stupid thing to do, but it is far far from being the stupidest thing anyone has done on this site or even on this thread.

Yes, Rob. This was well publicised at the time… about the time that Blair handed over to Brown, as I remember… although the news that it was an IT contractor and 4 security people didn’t filter out until later.

Looks like all the security contractors were killed.

Of course there is more to this – but the fact that he needed four security personnel suggests something about how popular those working on behalf of the coalition of the willing were in Iraq in early 2007.

RE: Craig Murray is a human rights activist, writer, and former British Ambassador, Rector of the University of Dundee and an Honorary Research Fellow at the University of Lancaster School of Law.

and a gullible, naive useful idiot.

If I understand it, Peter Moore was briefing the Iraqi Ministry of Finance on how to use their electronic network addresses. All told this has to be without a doubt the biggest sacrifice anyone has ever made for Microsoft Outlook.

But at least the Moores of Leicester look set to have a cracking New Year’s Eve.

@vildechaye: I’m not sure if you’re really aware of it, but what you’re actually doing is anonymously insulting people. I mention this because you might think you’re advancing an argument or something. Or that you’re filled with righteous anger. Maybe you are, I don’t know. But all you’re doing is trolling. Like a teenager, you know? I should really ignore you but in the festive spirit, I’d like to suggest you try expressing your opinions instead. People will listen. There are a lot of sane lurkers out there.

I for one am curious about your motivation. I mean, I could find plenty of online communities I broadly disagree with, and just post a load of anonymous insults on them, but I don’t. It wouldn’t occur to me. Are you sure this kind of schtick is really doing anything for you?

Great to see everyone enjoying themselves while I have been away. I have no problem at all with right wing trolls posying here – the spark of debate is sometimes quite illuminating (if sometimes pejorative and depressing).

By right-wing troll, I assume you mean the Muslims who scold us for our usurious Zionist masters.

By no means can I be considered right-wing.

Craig: “How long before Brown is on screen explaining this is why we have to be in Afghanistan?”

From the Salon link kindly provided by angrysoba, I’d say that Gordon’s explanations are more likely to be about attacking the Republic of Yemen:

“In the wake of the latest failed terrorist attack on Northwest Airlines, one can smell the excitement in the air — that all-too-familiar, giddy, bipartisan climate that emerges in American media discourse whenever there’s a new country we get to learn about so that we can explain why we’re morally and strategically justified in bombing it some more. “Yemen” is suddenly on every Serious Person’s lips. We spent the last month centrally involved to some secret degree in waging air attacks on that country — including some that resulted in numerous civilian deaths — but everyone now knows that this isn’t enough and it’s time to Get Really Serious and Do More.”

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2009/12/29/terrorism/index.html

Reading the comments on the Salon article (which seem to be conducted in a more civilised and sane manner than those on this thread), I came across a link to this story, whereby an Australian programmer has decoded the data from the Flight Deck Recorder of AA77 that was said to have hit the Pentagon. He found that the flight deck door was closed throughout the flight, so the cabin crew could not all have been sent through it to the back of the plane as was claimed.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=18405

The above will interest those who are eager to have all evidence of a supremely serious terrorist attack revealed and examined; and who are not so stupid as to blindly accept the explanation offered in a flawed report produced by the suspect administration’s own men; especially when said terrorist attack leads immediately to massive funding for the Pentagon as called for in their earlier planning document, wars on two countries which happen to have strategic benefits for the US and their corporations, and legislation to grant more powers to the authorities and gain more power over the populace.

hawley jr

Yes. I was hoping that, unlike our disastrous historic invasions of Afghanistan, Aden was still a recent enough memory to dissuade…

Yo Craig, I prefer tomatoes to biscuits too. Keep up the good work!

Hello Rob.

Thankyou for the compliment but I have been in England for several years and always loved studying English.

Life isn’t perfect over there but we can say what we like and vote for who we like.

Azeem,

Very interesting to hear from you – in the States, we rarely hear the voices of Arabs in Israel who are relatively content in Israel (that is, of course, the situation being far from perfect). It’s somewhat strange that we don’t hear from you, given that the media is controlled by our “usurious Zionist masters.”

Seconded.

Are you maybe more of a “one state solution” kind of guy then Azeem?

I’m centre-left, always have been, always will be. Useful idiots like to call me right-wing and neo-con however. Right wing nutters call me a leftie. I’mnot sure which is worse, but I know I’m doing something right.

Courtenay Barnett

‘The security at Amsterdam airport is provided by ICTS ( Private Security firm ?” owned by Israeli Ezra Harel – see http://www.icts-int.com/)

- employing many Shin Bet personnel.’

Well, I looked up their website, and they deny that:

http://www.ictseurope.com/

“Important Notice, 28 December 2009

Following the terrorist attack on DL/NW Flight 253 on 25 December 2009 , there have been incorrect reports linking ICTS Europe to the event.

We would like to make it clear that ICTS Europe Holdings B.V. is not connected in any way to the mentioned events. ICTS Europe does not provide any security services, nor any other services, whether directly or indirectly, at Amsterdam Schiphol Airport and is not connected in any way to any of the companies that provide security services at Amsterdam Schiphol Airport.”

Yes, I know ‘they would say that wouldn’t they’ and so on, and I’m probably a government shill/right wing troll etc., but I guess it’d be easy enough to check that out, maybe you or someone else could do that?

While we have no real option but accept their denial of being involved with the particular flight in question, their denial of any involvement whatsoever at Schiphol is a bit surprising given the address of their Netherlands office:

http://www.ictseurope.com/network/netherlands.html

Well now here’s Jew-bashing at its finest. MJ, couldn’t you say that about any security firm that has an office at Schiphol?

You people really are idiots.

Larry

Where does MJ mention Jew in his post?

That method of silencing people you disagree with might work in America, but we are not in America.

So try again using a more indulgent argument, or hide under your rock.

You can’t be serious.

Now why did anyone take advantage of this incident to manufacture an Israeli connection? And wasn’t it inevitable?

You’re either (i) trying to be coy in a slimy, disgusting manner or (ii) extremely stupid.

“…couldn’t you say that about any security firm that has an office at Schiphol?”

Only those that deny having any connection to Schiphol.

“Only those that deny having any connection to Schiphol.”

You really aren’t that intelligent. The company was stating that it had no connection with providing such security at Schiphol. It did not deny having a presence at Schiphol. It makes perfect sense that it would have a presence at Schiphol. Plenty of security companies have a presence at Schiphol without providing security there.

They had to come out and deny it because the Jew-bashers immediately pounced to pathetically attempt to make hay out of the situation.

“Plenty of security companies have a presence at Schiphol without providing security there.”–Larry

Like who? Can you give us a list?

“Like who? Can you give us a list?”

No.

Have you been to a major airport before? There are plenty of offices of various firms. Use the Google machine if you’re curious. I can suggest some sample searches if you can’t figure it out.

You’re still trying to hold onto the notion that, since a company with Israeli owners had an office at Schiphol, the Jews must have done this. This is both hilarious and predicable.

The U.K., U.S. and Israel are responsible. You seem to be a generalising racist Lamby.

“The U.K., U.S. and Israel are responsible. You seem to be a generalising racist Lamby.”

You couldn’t be more stupid.

Why not, are you ‘as stupid as they come’?

“Plenty of security companies have a presence at Schiphol without providing security there.”

–Larry from St. Louis

“Like who? Can you give us a list?”

–non-Muslim non-English type

“No.”

—Larry from St. Louis

Why is anyone bothering with this total and complete idiot?

Are you so misinformed about the world that you think there are no security companies that have an office in Schiphol? Are you that dense?

Aren’t you stretching things quite a bit to blame it all on the Jews?

Lamby:

‘Are you so misinformed about the world that you think there are no security companies that have an office in Schiphol? Are you that dense?

Aren’t you stretching things quite a bit to blame it all on the Jews?’

No, you’re stretching it coming up with comments like that.

“The U.K., U.S. and Israel are responsible.”

This is big news, Jaded. Have you thought about going to the police with your evidence for this, or are you going to tell the newspapers or the TV stations?

Duh!

“It is also worth noting that, if he had destroyed the plane, he would have killed only one third of the innocent civilians who died on just day one of “Shock and Awe” in Iraq”

This is one of the sickest comments I have ever read on any blog, ever. It’s in the same category as “those killed on 9/11 had it comming to them”.

You are one sick individual. You really could have had a brilliant career in the FCO.

“It is also worth noting that, if he had destroyed the plane, he would have killed only one third of the innocent civilians who died on just day one of “Shock and Awe” in Iraq”

This is one of the sickest comments I have ever read on any blog, ever. It’s in the same category as “those killed on 9/11 had it comming to them”.

You are one sick individual. You really could have had a brilliant career in the FCO.

Oh, and anyone who thinks that something isn’t explosive because it failed to explode on one particular occasion is one thick individual.

Is it “one sick individual” or “one thick individual”? I’m getting confused.

“It is also worth noting that, if he had destroyed the plane, he would have killed only one third of the innocent civilians who died on just day one of “Shock and Awe” in Iraq”

Craig

“This is one of the sickest comments I have ever read on any blog, ever.”

Gordon Bennet

Why? I’m sure it’s correct. And those civilians who died in “Shock and Awe” were just as innocent as those flying to Detroit. What’s your problem with someone saying as much?

“It’s in the same category as “those killed on 9/11 had it comming to them”.”

Gordon Bennet

I disagree. Craig didn’t say that anyone had anything “coming to them”. He was talking about numbers.

“I’m getting confused”

You ain’t kidding.

It’s both.

“I disagree”

Disagree away.

He was trying to excuse it by saying it would have been ONLY (his word, not mine) one third etc. Therefore, no big deal. Nothing to write home about. Nothing to see here, move along.

The man’s a prat.

And he doesn’t like those uppitty Jews all that much, either.

“He was trying to excuse it by saying it would have been ONLY (his word, not mine) one third etc. Therefore, no big deal.”

-Gordon Bennet

I said, “Craig didn’t say that anyone had anything ‘coming to them’” – as you suggested he did. Or the equivalent. When someone is talking about a fraction of something else, it’s quite common to say ‘only’.

“And he doesn’t like those uppitty Jews all that much, either.”

I’ve never seen him write anything here that would give you that impression, but you’re going to continue calling him a ‘prat’ anyway (with or without quotes about uppity Jews) so I’ll bid you goodnight.

He thinks that Zionism is ‘bullshit’. QED.

@Gordon Bennet: Critising Zionism is not the same as being anti-semitic and you know it isn’t. Respond.

Rob Lewis:

‘@Gordon Bennet: Critising Zionism is not the same as being anti-semitic and you know it isn’t. Respond.’

You’ll have to take our Gords with a large pinch of salt i’m afraid. He’s as thick as the proverbial short planks.

Hey Craig – How’s Fiona these days?

Craig Murray says:

“I just saw an eyewitness on BBC TV News recount that the Nigerian man who set fire to his leg on a Delta flight was shouting “about Afghanistan”. Which proves yet again that by occupying Afghanistan we are provoking, not preventing, attempted terrorism.”

Not sure if someone has already commented on this but according to Jasper Schuringa, the Dutchman who jumped the terrorist, Abdulmutallab was in what seemed like a trance the whole time the incident was occurring. Schuringa never said Panty Boy said anything, much less “about Afghanistan.”

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/12/27/2009-12-27_how_flying_dutchman_made_stop_he_was_getting_on_fire__i_just_jumped_over_the_sea.html

Dewayne,

presumably then the eyewitness that Craig saw on TV was someone other than Schuringa.