Dear Craig. You didn’t expect anything else. did you? Playing the world statesman (Broad picture, dear boy, you wouldn’t understand), moving the enquiry members away from their remit and the detailed knowledge they have gained over the past few weeks is a classic case of avoiding the questions he does not wish to answer. As you have noted, it takes a certain kind of mind to step on that.

You are being hit for six Craig. Get over it. You have hoped for too much from this enquiry, but it is getting at the real truth, not your version of it. The FCO is a hotbed of appeasement and always has been.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/north_yorkshire/8486884.stm

It’s funny how we (rightly) have laws against inciting racial hatred/violence and yet do not apply them to the people who convince and coerce armed, organised groups of us to go to other countries and kill thousands of people.

We’ve got two petty criminals in prison, now how about the real ones like Blair & Straw?

Get George Galloway in there as Special Prosecutor.

He’d have this bag of shit, slit from head to toe, such that we could plainly see the evil inside.

Tony

Gawd, I’d love that Tony. I’m short of sleep and I can’t bear watching this overly-polite carry-on which results in Blair talking rings round them and rarely being interrupted. I think he’s getting into his stride compared to how he started off, when I thought he was quite nervous.

Phew. They’ve broken for lunch. I’m pleased it was well-mannered. Blair’s basically saying that Bush made him do it, isn’t he.

eddie

>The FCO is a hotbed of appeasement and always has been.

That’s the precise opposite of the truth. In the lead up to the Second World War, it was the Foreign Office who stood up to hitler and Downing St who appeased. The three senior figures at the Foreign Office – The Foreign Secretary, Eden; the Head of the Foreign Office, Vansittart; and the Head of Communications, Leeper – all had to be sacked by Chamberlain before he could appease Hitler.

Just the same as today. With Blair and Campbell playing the role today of appeasing the neocons that Chamberlain and Ball played in the 30′s appeasing the Nazis.

Yes, George Galloway – that moral giant and serial lover of dictators. Tremendous idea, Tony.

Personally I was always against the Iraq War. It simply wasn’t in our self-interest – which is what our foreign policy should be based on.

What I find most irritating about the Inquiry, is this procession of FCO mandarins (Greenstock, Meyer) and mini-mandarins (Craig) who are saying that they always knew it was a terrible idea.

You’d think that they might have resigned in protest in March 2003? Or perhaps they were too worried about their mortgage repayments.

Anyway, why don’t we move on to something else – how about that special bomb the US set off in the Caribbean to deliberately cause the Haiti earthquake? The bastards.

If Chilcott has any sense, he’ll allow Blair to ramble on for the rest of the day, and then re-summon him at some later date for further questioning.

None of Blair’s dissembling should be surprising, and even skilled cross-examiners would have difficulty keeping pace with this torrent of bullshit. The best thing Chilcott can do is to keep Blair talking, then go over the transcript, possibly summon “rebuttal” witnesses, and then re-question Blair afterwards.

Rough the bastard up with some aggressive challenging of his credibility, wait for him to start changing his story, and then rip into his mendacity. But they really need another session to begin to expose the depths of Blair’s dishonesty.

Eddie,

I expected too much from the enquiry? I stated from the start it is a whitewash before a handpicked panel of Iraq war supporters. Actually it has been much more useful than I ever expected in some of the detail it has revealed. It will still be an Establishment whitewash in the end.

But when Wood and Wilmshurt were giving evidence you were all wetting your pants with excitement. “We are on to something here” was the tenor of the comments. So I suppose we will have to endure yet another enquiry until you get the answers you want.

alan campbell,

I disagree with many of Galloway’s views. I think he is incredibly naive in some of his beliefs.

But what he believes is not the point.

I thought of him as Special Prosecutor, because of his obvious skills at such a job.

When he was summoned by the US Senate, he turned an attack on him, to such a devastating attack on US Foreign Policy, that they didn’t know what had hit them, and even his fiercest opponents were staggered in admiration of his skill.

Tony

Ahhh eddie…. always volunteering to be the condom while Blair fucks the truth.

Say what you like about George Galloway, but he’s on our side. His principled opposition to the Iraq war led to him being expelled from the Labour Party – contrast that with the MPs who voted for the war and are now full of excuses about how they were lied to.

lover of what dictators is Galloway precisely cosy with?

Eddie,

I somewhat enjoy your references to cricket because the game was devised by children – “Hit for six” – when the boundaries are blurred eh?

“He has made not one single comment about Israel’s behaviour as a contributing factor in Middle East instability. Given Blair’s official position as Middle East envoy, this lack of any bare pretence at impartiality is most revealing.”

Craig’s astute mind has evaporated Blair’s attempt to ‘topple the gyro’ and steer the panel with his own compass – something I suspect he was ‘told’ to do!

@alan campbell.

Stop banging on about subjects outwith the thread.

If you want to riff out on conspiracy stuff then there are plenty other sites out there where you can try and rile people or provoke tedious thread shifts.

Craig has made this clear,and even set up a specific thread for this stuff.

If its he shaking the hands with Saddam, then read his reasons. |whilst you were tucked in your bed, hes was (kissing ass) with Saddam for an aim….to get aide supplies to his people, whilst i might add the Americans were there still trying to sell him weapons.

If thats your argument….you go ahead a feel rightly smug, me I think he’s done more to help ‘people’ then your armchair comments would suggest you have…so Park it

George Galloway’s views on the Chilcot Inquiry panel members -

(at about 4:00 in this clip)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PLOworGqIQ

I only managed to watch about 30 seconds online before I started getting angry and switched off, having lived outside of the UK since 1989 I guess I have a very low tolerance of Blair, it’s like a virus, you guys obviously developed the right antibodies.

All I saw was a softball question allowing Blair to connect Saddam to 9-11, his answer suggested both Bush and Blair were tested and found wanting, and 2 countries had to fall to satisfy their need for revenge.

still trying to work out why they keep insinuating a link between 9/11 and sadam?

There wasnt one!

nothing changed, just Bush got to remove several parts of the American constitution and got to play wargames with blair, and divy up the resulting contracts like playing a game of Civilisation…

Hi All,

I just got back from outside Chicott. Blair, the coward, never showed his face, none of the press photographers I spoke to had even glimpsed him.

I’ll link to my photo’s of the demo later.

mrjohn,

..allowing Blair to connect Saddam to 9-11, his answer suggested both Bush and Blair were tested and found wanting, and 2 countries had to fall to satisfy their need for revenge.

I believe we are all tested in some way. I was. When I developed the ‘Children for Iraq website, I was accused of using vile images of children hurt by war.

Many attempts to cajole me were made by people offering to ‘re-design’ the site for free.

I was asked to make statements about the Coptic community in Iraq and then learned that their leader in Iraq had been murdered.

My emotions at the time were high, out of control – so I studied the history.

The 1980 Iran/Iraq war when USA sold weapons and gave support to Hussein.

Then the ‘highway of death’ as retreating Iraqis were massacred, a carnage that shocked the world.

Then the massacre of Highway 8 by the Americans after the ceasefire.

Then the induced uprising when the CIA showered the poor Marsh Arabs and Kurds with leaflets promising the removal of Saddam that never happened and Saddam then murdered many of them.

Then the million loss of life by sanctions that caused massive malnutrition, lack of medical supplies and diseases like diarrhea and cholera soared due to lack of clean water that was partly caused by the ban on chlorine desperately needed for water de-salinization.

Then the depleted uranium and spread of cancers.

Then Clinton’s ‘slow motion’ war. Bush’s ‘secret war, the lies, the dossier; then ‘shock and awe’ as dawn broke in March 2003 as Iraqi children sat down with their mothers for breakfast only to be met by the searing heat of fire, destruction and the blessed peace of death to stop the pain.

The pictures remain.

Impressed that the panel have not been sick, actually.

If you can stand watching that grinning killer, and listening to

to his nauseating voice, for the whole of his testimony, you have

a far stronger stomach than mine. I just cannot listen for another

minute. The only time I want to ever hear him again is when he

answers questions in the dock at the Hague.

“always volunteering to be the condom while Blair fucks the truth.”

That’s a splendid phrase, but there’s a problem. If “fucking with” is a bad thing, maybe you’re doing it wrong ? (I know, I know, it’s a very common usage. I still think it’s problematical).

“It’s like a virus, you guys obviously developed the right antibodies”. I disagree. We haven’t succeeded in throwing the infection off, yet.

This just stated by Blair at the imquiry>

” A deeply repressive regime,extremely secretive and run by a very elite few…”

He was talking about Iraq,apparently…

Mark Golding

I wonder if they ever considered what “shock and awe” would mean to a small child.

Exactly. Psychopaths.

Richard -

I considered slightly different phrasing, but didn’t want the comment deleted =P I know not everyone is as comfortable with colourful language as I am.

Mark,

Your website is very impressive, but today is the first time I have seen it. I’m almost certain the last time I clicked on your link a few weeks ago, I was redirected to somewhere else. Maybe you’ve changed it, maybe I’m mistaken, or maybe someone deliberately misdirected it.

Tony

brief mention of Hussein’s torture chambers – swerved away rapidly…

Guardian summary misses the point where Blair refers to the ’2010 view- – where he can see if Saddam Hussein had been left in power *Iran* & Iraq would now be engaged in a nuclear/WMD weapons race and Al Queda might well be involved in iraq

A quote from the late Howard Zinn is very relevant -

“The challenge remains. On the other side are formidable forces: money, political power, the major media. On our side are the people of the world and a power greater than money or weapons: the truth. Truth has a power of its own. Art has a power of its own. That age-old lesson?”that everything we do matters?”is the meaning of the people’s struggle here in the United States and everywhere. A poem can inspire a movement. A pamphlet can spark a revolution. Civil disobedience can arouse people and provoke us to think, when we organize with one another, when we get involved, when we stand up and speak out together, we can create a power no government can suppress. We live in a beautiful country. But people who have no respect for human life, freedom, or justice have taken it over. It is now up to all of us to take it back.”

http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/01/marvelous-victories-5-lessons-from-the-late-great-howard-zinn/

CheebaCow – I don’t mind “colour”, I just don’t think it’s a good move, this constant implication that having sex with someone is a bad thing to do to them.

But it is widespread – if you have a taste for “colour”, try The Rude Pundit. http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2010/01/photos-that-make-rude-pundit-want-to_29.html

eddie:

Get your own fucking blog you cunt

Vital documents remain secret

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/vital-documents-remain-secret-1882561.html

The Middle East envoy has just given an example of how Israel gets attacked and then retaliates resulting in Israel get the blame!!! Apart from the obvious bias, he must have utterly no knowledge of the history of the conflict from the Palestianian perspective.Or from a reality for that matter. Incredible.

Richard -

Surely you can agree that being fucked is a bad thing when it’s Blair doing it?

Thanks for the link, the headline definitely makes me want to read more.

Tony,

Nothing changed for more than than year – always the same link – but strange things do occur as you propound. I cannot reach http://www.sacc.org.uk yet I am a site member and receive emails from them. How odd?

“It simply wasn’t in our self-interest — which is what our foreign policy should be based on.”

–alan campbell

That’s delightful. No humanitarian considerations to bother you.

“If you can stand watching that grinning killer ..”–glenn

I haven’t watched since my last comment either. I’m guessing that Craig will give us a round-up later. Blair, being a consummate politician, never answers any question directly, but talks around it for at least 5 minutes. It’s always easier to analyse text from these people.

“The Middle East envoy has just given an example of how Israel gets attacked and then retaliates resulting in Israel get the blame!!!”

christ

Iraq, Afghanistan, and next Iran.

To be honest I was very surprised by Blair so obviously targeting Iran, but only because I can’t see how the US/UK have the resources to do it. There are still large numbers of troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, the US/UK economies are in the toilet and I can’t imagine the US/UK populations would be very happy with another war being started. I think the only real threat to Iran is a CIA coup. I think the Pakistanis have more reason to be afraid of a full scale war (they are already half way there). Anyone notice the US media often refers to the Afghan war as Af-Pak war now?

Hay you know what I have noticed?

There isn’t a single post by Larry and Angry here!

That 911 thread worked, let them talk to each other.

Anyway, No surprise that Blair hasn’t continues with his war mongering lies.

What country do you think is going to be next after Iran and Pakistan?

Cheeba

That is because it takes many years of sanctions to get a country ready for an invasion.

Iran has had sanctions for a long time, Just not long enough for Blair to call for an invasion yet.

I forgot to say I also think that Russia and China are more likely to protect Iran from both sanctions and military aggression.

My photo’s of todays demos are here:

http://www.killick1.plus.com/chilcot_demo.zip

or click on the link below. However, they are all in a 128 megabyte ZIP file, and my web space seems to be sending them rather slowly; it looks like a two hour download.

The ZIP unpacks into a folder containing 72 jpeg images. I haven’t edited them except to turn the portrait pictures upright. There are pictures of the demonstrators, the speakers, and the “Tony Blair in Prison” performance. Anyone may use them in any way they see fit.

Clark

“Surely you can agree that being fucked is a bad thing when it’s Blair doing it?”

Ah.

That, I have no answer to, and will withdraw from the position I have taken.

I’ve also noticed myself using the same phraseology. No problem, I’m happy to argue against myself, too.

“Thanks for the link, the headline definitely makes me want to read more.”

It’s a long-running feature (as per the numbering), just oozing with colourful examples. Not for the squeamish (but then, arguably, nor is paying attention to any of this mess). I chose to mention this one (as well as the tie-up with the analogy) because it’s on-topic.

And because I can’t make up my mind whether it’s heartening or cause for despair, to see USA dissenters looking up to this.

I agree with CheebaCow: nowhere’s going to be next. As well as Iran, and Bush, Blair blamed everyone from William Haig to something new called ‘AQ’. Perhaps he means GQ; he was looking impressively tailored. His talk of ‘nation building’ in the future is, I suspect, nicely calculated to get everyone panicking?

AQ is Alki Ada.

JAIL … JAIL … JAIL … JAIL … JAIL … JAIL … JAIL … JAIL … JAIL …

AQ = Abdul Qadeer Khan

{en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Qadeer_Khan#Nuclear_Proliferation_and_Rise_to_Fame}

Is there some sort of tunnel out of the QE2 conference centre? This guy has been fucking invisible all day, at least from street level.

Quite so CheebaCow. Mine was a feeble joke aimed at Gordon Brown’s pronuciation of Al Qaeda.

Rob Lewis

Mandelson flies in and collects him from the roof…

http://tinyurl.com/yd7pc8f

Clark,

Your photos are fantastic.

It took only about 5 minutes to download them.

Thanks

Tony

Arsalan: “Hay you know what I have noticed?

There isn’t a single post by Larry and Angry here!

That 911 thread worked, let them talk to each other.”

Good. Can we be reprieved from our status as agents provocateurs now? Or pro-Iraq War bloogers [sic]?

“Tony Blair is guilty of mass murder”…

http://tinyurl.com/yb7gg5p

“An Illegal War is State-Terrorism”

“As the toothless Chilcot Inquiry collates the evidences from the various individuals, not many are asking some basic questions regarding the Iraq War.”…

tinyurl.com/ydwklvr

Talk of heckling in the chamber as Blair left. One cry of ‘liar’ and one of ‘murderer’.

now thats finished? what UN resolution allowed the UK and USA invade Afghanistan?

Clark,

I particularly like this one of your photos, because everyone looks so ashamed and disgusted, with the image of Big Ben in the background.

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/5844/imag0063m.jpg

Thank You

Tony

Rob Lewis

Maybe when Blair sold his soul to the devil he was granted the power of invisibility

SECRET DOCUMENTS

Secret evidence – who can or how can we get the documents released?

http://tinyurl.com/iraq-lies

You do know Howard Zinn died yesterday, right?

Here’s an obituary by a giy many wouldn’t want their obituary by:

http://timesonline.typepad.com/oliver_kamm/2010/01/howard-zinn-rip.html

Clark,

Because you said “Anyone may use them in any way they see fit.”, and because they are so good, I have posted one photograph and a link to your zip file and to this website in America.

It is possible, that someone may post all your photographs on a very fast website for download by anyone interested anywhere in the World.

It is also possible that some MSM newspapers may want to publish them, and they may want to contact you to ask permission first, and they may even want to pay you some money for doing so.

I don’t know if you are contactable, but maybe you should be.

Your photos are fantastic.

Thank You

I respect your copywrite, and so I think will all the MSM.

Tony

Blair’s failure to square Israel into the Middle East equation speaks volumes.

The parts of a story that are not reported are the key ones.

How high or low a profile does this or that bit of the story get in the official media?

If it ranks highly on the “absentometer” it’s a good rule of thumb to consider it a meaty morsel,a crucial detail they would rather you missed.

The small detail in this case is the role of British Israelism in

(i)creating the state of Israel in the first place

(ii)creating its dialectic opposite in Wahhabist Saudi and the theocratic regime in Iran

(iii)creating the international synarchy that funds the Anglo-US-Israel Military Industrial Complex

Now,I may have missed it,but I’m sure Blair never mentioned British Israelism.We can be pretty sure the corporate media are not about to do so either.

http://educate-yourself.org/

Onced you’re there hit the British Israel link.

zngry,

hnks for the link

Just got back from the QEII centre. Some nice bits of shouting and banner-waving going on. Took loads of photos & vidclips.

It was like a copper’s convention; the place was swarming with rozzers. Still, at least they were well behaved: nobody accidentally fell over and just sort of died this time.

Ming Campbell who gave a very critical interview on the radio early in the day, left via the front door, to a warm reception … notably unlike the star of the show.

I will always love Howard Zinn because of this unmissable, unused audio commentary he supplied (with Chomsky) to Lord of the Rings:

http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2003/04/22fellowship.html

On a more serious note, did anyone else think Blair was wearing light mauve eye shadow?

Apparently there were only 200 people or fewer outside the centre, a much lower turnout than expected. Perhaps this shows that the mass of the public are not as excited about this process as the people on here. Surely the stoppers could have mustered a decent turnout to taunt their nemesis Bliar? The truth is that most people are bored with these constant enquiries which don’t tell us anything we didn’t already know. I thought Blair put on a bravura performance today: as he said, it was all about judgement. He should have expressed some remorse or regret for the dead though. No leader should commit troops to a conflict without feeling remorse.

You Can’t Be Neutral on a Moving Train

Remembering Howard Zinn

By Alison Flood

Howard Zinn, US historian and activist, dies aged 87.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article24523.htm

Well worth a few minutes, and as relevant today as when spoken.

This is relevant…

http://tinyurl.com/yj4f45y

The can of worms is slowly being prized open for the entire world to see.

The initial reaction is to feel really ill and run to the toilet.

And then when you regain your composure

You get exceedingly angry

And run back to the toilet and your guts explode, both ends simultaneously.

And then you have a glass of water and start thinking

Well what can I do about this?

I Can’t take Clark’s Photo off my Computer Screen

I hope it is seen by Millions

Because it makes me Proud to Be British to show such Disgust – Right at the Supposed Heart of Democracy and Freedom of The World

Shame & Disgust

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/5844/imag0063m.jpg

Tony

Cheers for the video, Glenn. And CLark, drat, just lost your photo download; will try again.

Eddie, I don’t think people are bored. I was in the heart of Middle England yesterday and people there (many of whom supported the war) were desperately concerned about whether it was legal or not. It’s true the subject only came up when the news came on. Otherwise people are blanking it out, I think.

I think it’s obvious Blair has trained himself not to feel remorse, so I’m rather pleased he didn’t try and act any, in a way.

Blair deserves the same “justice” he meted out to Saddam Hussein. Let him swing for the Iraq war.

Very nice pictures, Clark – thank you for making them available.

Decent variety of race, age etc. in the crowd. Not very much diversity in the ranks of the filth – a disgustingly white turnout there. Might as well have been a BNP rally.

Isn’t it striking that the people talking for peace needed no protection, just loudspeakers because so many wanted to hear them. But our supposed representatives needs a huge amount of protection. Not from “terrorists” – but from us, the represented who voted them in.

“Iraq, Afghanistan, and next Iran.”

No, Arsalan, next is Yemen. You will see. Then, It will be Saudis. Maybe 5 or 7 years afterwards.

…halfway through Clark’s photos: some stunning and all so moving. Thanks Clark.

Craig,

I feel for your frustration at how this slippery character was able to glide through his appearance at the inquiry with such consumate ease. At times he sounded almost like he was mocking them, and answering his own rhetorical questions. They actually gave him a platform to create a gigantic, paranoid, fantasy, about Saddam the “monster” and Iraq as a gigantic threat.

He was allowed to drag terrorism and 9/11 into his looney, bizarro-world, where up is down, and wrong is right, lies are truth, and a broken dictator in broken country is a theat to the world!

Then he fantasizes about the threat Iraq might have possibly posed at some future date, and neatly brings Iran and it’s conflict with the United States and Israel, into the horror-show mix.

It is staggering that he is allowed to get away with this kind of stuff.

Don’t the people on the inquiry team have any honour at all, or regard for their own reputations, giving him such a transparently easy ride?

Clark 10

Mark 10

Glenn 9

Eddie -7

Angry -7

Larry -1

technicolour -10

(Larry gets -1 cos he’s funny)

technicolour gets -10 cos he’s a clever cunt

Tony

“Don’t the people on the inquiry team have any honour at all”

“If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?”

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn (1918-2008)

For ease of download, Clark’s photos are mirrored here:

http://tinyurl.com/ya38uef

I hope that’s ok.

writerman,

‘Don’t the people on the inquiry team have any honour at all, or regard for their own reputations, giving him such a transparently easy ride?’

Of course, they don’t. They’re just one part of the synchronised show. The whole thing has been manipulated to throw the public a titbit and let off steam but at the same time to maintain the integrity of the witnesses so that a line can be drawn under the war.

And for the best links posted on this site

We all know who is in a league of his own

http://tinyurl.com/yj4f45y

Fuck Me He is Scottish too

(Americans Don’t believe me when I tell them that Anthony Charles Lynton Blair IS NOT ENGLISH)

And so for the best links – and some of the most incisive comments – stand up and receive your award for being an O.K. bloke

I can’t believe this is the url of your website

http://www.solidarityscotland.org

I thought you were Welsh

Thank You

George Dutton

Tony

hey!

i tried to comment on something you wrote last year but it wouldnt let me. it was about Castelvecchio pascoli. I’m from there too! and my parents still own a house there and it’s where i’ve spent every summer since i was a baby. I’m even planning on moving there permanently this june. i had no idea there were so many academics from there. if you go there now you would never imagine it as the majority of the 500 or so people that live there barely got their high school diplomas. despite that I wouldn’t give up that village for any other.

thanks for the blog post. i really made my day

This and that, they must be the same

what is legal is just what’s real

what I’m given to understand

is exactly what I steal

I wormed my way into the heart of the crowd

I wormed my way into the heart of the crowd

I was shocked to find what was allowed

I didn’t lose myself in the crowd

Shot by both sides

on the run to the outside of everything

shot by both sides

they must have come to a secret understanding

New offences always in my nerves

they’re taking my time by force

They all sound the same when they scream

they have to rewrite all the books again

as a matter of course

Shot by both sides

I don’t ask who’s doing the shooting

shot by both sides

we must have come to a secret understanding

writerman, thanks. What I found also disturbing was that Blair was allowed to present his ’2010′ vision of a world where ‘Saddam’ still reigned, with his sons – Blair was careful throughout to mention his sons – and as a result we would have been facing a nightmarish, Iran/Iraq, WMD/nuclear weapons escalating stand-off in the region.

Lyne muttered something about the alternative to invasion not being the equivalent to ‘letting Saddam out of the box entirely’ but said that they’d come back to that later. They did not. Nor did they talk about recalling Blair, at the end, as far as I know?

Actually, you could go on about this for hours – the brave attempt by the nice guy to put IBC figures into a context (hello, BBC) included.

I’m looking forward to reading you on this, Craig.

For reference, if you were heading the inquiry, can you give us a short list of questions that you would put to Blair or Straw? (Actually this may be suitable for a separate thread, because you could then add a commentary).

George Dutton “an O.K. bloke”

Thank you Tony,I shall have that inscribed on my headstone.

“The British government was from the outset fully prepared to back the US invasion of Iraq, with or without a second resolution, as they had done in the Balkans. But even had they secured such a resolution, the war still would have constituted a criminal war of aggression?”albeit one hidden behind the false legitimacy provided by the UN.”…

http://tinyurl.com/yaj33jq

Tony_opmoc,

I’ve only just come back to this thread. Thanks for the complement. You can act as my agent if you wish. I did e-mail you the other day, but I haven’t heard from you. I’ve just sent another; check your spam filter!

George,

About 3 months ago I was standing in my local pub just having a quiet drink with my wife whilst there was a crap band on …

And this bloke comes up to me and starts shouting at me

“Its All Your Fault”

And He Had The First and The Third Fingers Of His Hand Splayed Wide Open

And They Were Jabbing Towards My Eyes About TWO Inches Away

And I said

“What The Fuck Are You On About?”

Eventually, at the End Of The Night

He Said

” I was an OK Bloke ”

And He Offerred Me His Hand

And I Shook It

He said – No it Wasn’t You

It Was Your Mate That Shagged My Girlfriend

Tony

I love the UK! Completely forgot that this was our Christmas No 1!

http://www.last.fm/music/Rage+Against+the+Machine/_/Killing+in+the+Name

Clark,

Sorry, I have been retired for 5 years now.

When I was working, I was on call 24×7

My mobile was going off continuously

My own home phone was going off continuously

My works phone was going off continuously

My pager was going off continuously

So when I finally escaped

I turned everything off

I rarely read emails, and when I do its hard to find the 1% genuine, amongst the 99% of spam

I don’t do agent

I occasionally do stuff and I always give it away for free

But if anyone wants to give you anything for your photography and you feel you don’t want anything then you could always accept it and donate it to

http://www.coia.org.uk/

Tony

Working my way down the thread here – thank, Technicolour and Glenn. Yes, the Police were white, but they did behave. I had to leave at about mid day. Imag0063 that Tony likes was taken during the Naming of the Dead, I think. Al, that’s fine. Send them anywhere. They’re just snaps, loads out of focus or with badly placed placards etc, and there were LOTS of cameras about.

by whatever means this war monger liar bastard tony blair msut be brought to justice by a court in IRAQ AND THEN WHEN FOUND OF CRIME THEN HE SHOUDL EB TORTURED TO DEATH AS WAS DONE TO IRAQIS.

this tony blair bastard drips of evil and such types must be confronted and sorted out .

Paul Amery,

avatar singh,

Blair shouldn’t be killed. He must live until he knows what he has done, and then kept as an example and an object of study.

George’s post repeated:

“If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?”

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn (1918-2008)

Clark,

I agree completely and have spent over 2 years descriving at length in websites all over the world translated into as many languages as I could find to translate it into language that everyone could understand ( I exagerate slightly )

Tony Blair is Our War Criminal, and Eventually We will Get Him On Trial For War Crimes Against Humanity and If He is Found Guilty

We Will Keep Him Alive For As Long As Possible And He Will Be Given Full Human Rights In His Jail Close or In The Tower Of London.

He Will Appear Publicly For One Hour a Week – In His Cage – And He Will Answer Questions.

I Didn’t Say What We Would Do To Him If He Was Found INNOCENT

Tony

“For reference, if you were heading the inquiry, can you give us a short list of questions that you would put to Blair or Straw? ”

To me, it seems to be shaping up into another version of the self-flattering thing, the “we suave Brits know how to do these things subtly, we’ll use our influence to moderate these oh-so-crude Yanks” patrolling-in-soft-headgear thing. (ie, he’s a vain balloon of a man. I wonder if it was played on).

So, it would be interesting to know, just what did he stop ? What even-more-dreadful things would our allies have done without his righteous moral tuition to stop them ?

Are transcripts of the enquiry proceedings available online anywhere, or will they be ? Does anyone know ?

Tony,

thanks pal

nite all – shattered

Richard Robinson,

You are incredibly naive

Anthony Charles Lynton Blair was Playing Battle Ship and Other Wargames in His Bath Tub – Long Before He Met George Bush

The Well Projected Image Is Not Necessarily True

It Actually Could Have Been The Other Way Round

Whilst Even Mandy Knows He Can Take It, Don’t For a Second Think It Was Not Tony’s Up Both Dick’s and George’s Arseholes

Sorry if that may surprise you, I tried to write it using british petroleum jelly (much cheaper than branded vaseline)

Tony

technicolor

I doubt there is really a u in your handle

All the radio stations across the UK, are now brodcasting the original unedited version of The Christmas Number 1 from Rage Against The Machine (An American Band We Have Adopted Here in The UK)

The Songs Bits That are Edited Out For The American Audience – Because Thay Couldn’t Possibly Understand Such a Concept Unlike Us English and Most of Europe – Including Even The Welsh and The Scousers

Goes Like This

(Close Your Eyes If Sensitive)

(Get louder until 9th by which time shouting)

Fuck you, I won’t do what you tell me.

Fuck you, I won’t do what you tell me.

Fuck you, I won’t do what you tell me.

Fuck you, I won’t do what you tell me.

Fuck you, I won’t do what you tell me.

Fuck you, I won’t do what you tell me.

Fuck you, I won’t do what you tell me.

Fuck you, I won’t do what you tell me.

FUCK YOU, I WON’T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME!!

FUCK YOU, I WON’T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME!!

FUCK YOU, I WON’T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME!!

FUCK YOU, I WON’T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME!!

FUCK YOU, I WON’T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME!!!

FUCK YOU, I WON’T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME!!!

FUCK YOU, I WON’T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME!!!

FUCK YOU, I WON’T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME!!!

MOTHERFUCKER!!!! Ugh!!

Tony

Blair needs to be discredited. More than he needs to be punished, it needs to be shown that these crazy fears are just phantoms of his mind. If he’s punished but not discredited, the fears just live on, and they’re corosive.

Blair needs to be shown for what he is – a damn good actor – whether he knows he’s acting or not.

“More than he needs to be punished, it needs to be shown that these crazy fears are just phantoms of his mind.”

Thanks again. What a day. Night all.

Me too.

Goodnight.

Tony… we all love you and all, but would you please consider switching to water for a bit?

No regrets Mr Blair ?

No regrets for the thousands of innocents that died ? If he is correct in his Christian beliefs I think he might have a bit of a surprise when he meets Peter at the Gate.

“You are incredibly naive … The Well Projected Image Is Not Necessarily True”

Gosh. Thank you for enlightening me, and I hope you won’t mind the sarcasm.

“we all love you and all, but would you please consider switching to water for a bit?”

I probably *am* naive, but if the story on offer is questionable, why not question it ? I don’t have any truths to sell, I just want to know *why*. (Are there any other News Quiz fans out there ?)

Well, no, that’s not all I want, I also want the big Never Again.

I understand that the UK government is to stop the sale of the ADE-651 to the Iraqis because it doesn’t detect explosives….

and yet, we’re still expected to buy Chillcot when his panel clearly can’t detect bullshit

Mark,

I have got my Visa Card in Front of Me

And I want to Donate £10 to your Children of Iraq Thing

I can do Paypal too

I just fill in the number and click on the button

I do not fill in standing order forms

Sort it out mate

Near the top of the page you do something like this

http://feedingamerica.org/

People have really short attention spans but they will give if its easy

Tony

I’ve put a few snaps up on:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/47061115@N02/

I may add a few vidclips if I get time.

Incidentally, I was wearing a RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE T-shirt, but it was far too fricking cold to take m’coat off!

26 January 2010

“UN experts point to widespread use of secret detention linked to counter-terrorism”…

http://tinyurl.com/y93q8uk

How long before this war criminal is properly challenged?

It might be 10 years, but I suspect it’ll be at least that.

Blair will be prosecuted.

30 January 2010

“Kazakhstan’s Uzbek refugees wait in limbo”…

http://tinyurl.com/y9h8h5o

Blair should be locked up in a room with this video on a constant loop…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls3zBL2jPoc

Look. i belong to a club of world leaders. we meet up from time to time to take moral decisions about the world. You mere bureaucrats can question me as long as you like but you’ll never really understand the kind of issues we’re dealing with here.

Can I have my million now. I’ve answered all the questions? For example:

The US President wants to invade an oil-rich country. Question : Should the UK Prime Minister -

1. Check the engine oil in his official car?

2. Put the phone on mute all the time the US President is talking.

3. Put his fingers in his ears when advice is given to him not to join in the invasion?

4. Play scratchcard?

i put a circle round Answer No. 3. The other three answers are obviously silly answers to try and catch you out. So i decided if i didn’t listen to anybody, they wouldn’t ever find out i didn’t know anything about my job.

It’s only 40% you need to get a pass isn’t it, in this stupid exam. i just copied all the answers from George. i didn’t find out till later he’d scored less than me. i don’t even care if i don’t pass. The worst thing that can happen is they kick you out and then you keep on saying you take responsibility so they think you’re sorry and you just hang about annoying people. C’mon guys, let’s go and kick some ass somewhere else. I’m bored with Iraq.

Blair: “The decision I took – and frankly would take again – was if there was any possibility that he could develop weapo

Someone asked if there was a transcript.

If they really want 249 pages of bilge,

it is here.

http://www.iraqinquiry.org.uk/media/43909/100129-blair.pdf

It was available last night produced at high speed. Pity the people who have to listen to it, transcribe and then print it. They deserve a medal.

“Have they no memory? Don’t they remember their own plans and measures? Have they forgotten that by these meassures they have left no stone standing upon stone? What kind of people must they be to go on raving with this never-cooling, feverish ardour, year in, year out, of things which are non-existent, of themes which have long vanished, and to know nothing, see nothing, of the reality which surrounds them?”

- Boris Pasternak: Dr Zhivago

Blair’s a megalomaniac… who like so many others before him… believes… honestly and sincerely… hand on heart… in witchcraft.

“I think he might have a bit of a surprise when he meets Peter at the Gate.”

“For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?”

Mark 8:36

“Sir Richard [Dalton] said that it was now essential that all the political parties made clear in the run up to the general election that there would be no repeat of Mr Blair’s actions in respect of Iran.

“‘One result of Tony Blair’s intervention on Iran – he mentioned Iran 58 times – is to put the question of confronting Iran into play in the election,’ he said.”

Independent.co.uk

http://tinyurl.com/yevpysd

I had the feeling after reading a lot of what T Blair said, that he was speaking at Chilcot on behalf of the USA.

“Someone asked if there was a transcript.

If they really want 249 pages of bilge,

it is here.”

Thank you, Mary.

I don’t know if I’ll be able to cope with wading through it all (usual whinge: “I have work I should be doing”), but … the reporting is (necessarily) so incomplete, I just wanted a more complete feel for what it was like, what questions might have been raised that the reporters didn’t have time for, and so on. The actual facts, such as they are.

At least the 249 pages seem to be double-spaced. That’ll help.

Again, thanks.

“I had the feeling after reading a lot of what T Blair said, that he was speaking at Chilcot on behalf of the USA”

I had the feeling he was speaking on behalf of Israel.

I believe we have seen the true meaning of the word perverse displayed by Tony Bliar.

I agree MJ, it was all about something else, he diverted the scope away from Iraq to escalate todays wardrumming against Iran, without mentioning Israel’s dastardly stand off in Gaza, or their continued land steal.

To the groaning background noise of the audience, he managed not only to anger them with his belligerent refusal for remorse, he had the ludicrous audacity, and was allowed to proceed, to use this inquiry into the legitimacy of the attack on Iraq for his wholly obscene and disgusting warmongering against Iran, all in one sentence, he must have rehearsed this for days.

I’m beginning to believe that this man is not worth a fair trial anymore, just as I would not waste any time or money on characters like Vladic. Evidence a plenty bang em’ up. St. Helena was good enough for Napoleon, it’ll sufice.

Fraaazeeer, we need a hand here!

Basking in sunlight & imagining if he had come on and said “look, this was all a terrible, terrible mistake”.

By the way, I think foreign policy should be self-interested – you’re nice to people, they’re nice to you, you trade, everyone’s happy…

Otherwise, lovely point earlier about the FCO standing up to Hitler.

Craig.

How about you drawing up a list of all the questions that the inquiry should have asked but did not.

Sometimes the question itself is illuminating even though the person who needs to be asked it will not be so asked.

“I had the feeling after reading a lot of what T Blair said, that he was speaking at Chilcot on behalf of the USA”

“I had the feeling he was speaking on behalf of Israel.”

Posted by: MJ

Hand in glove. One way or another, he is more interested in them than in the British people and their concerns. Those he dismissed out of hand.

“I think foreign policy should be self-interested – you’re nice to people, they’re nice to you, you trade, everyone’s happy…”

You mean like the USA does?

I see that this psycho is now urging war on Iran.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jan/30/tony-blair-iran-spin-chilcot

Why is it that we can’t be protected from evil men like Blair?

Sir Martin Gilbert has been whining to some right wing Israeli media outfit about anti-semitism.

http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_58301.shtml

How can anyone have confidence in any enquiry into Iraq that has this Zionist as part of the panel.

Not only that. He’s also a supporter of the war.

Has everyone gone totally mad, or have these loopy right wing racist Israelis really taken over.

No, dreoilin, I would say “not like the US does”.

I agree it’s not a fashionable point of view; and if you play Civilisation with it, you get trashed. Still, Sweden seems to manage it.

Don’t know whether to laugh or cry this morning. Bits of it keep coming back to haunt – the fact that Abu Ghraib made him ‘angry’ because it was, basically, bad PR, among them. Simon Carr is making the good point that a classified document confirming his decision to go for regime change even before Crawford is all over the net btw.

I know this is a bit off-topic, but I’ve just found out that Adam Crozier (the Thug-in-chief at RMail) has been appointed as ITV’s new CEO. Bloody hell. The man with the reverse-midas touch – wonder how that’ll work at ITV?

Sorry, tech, I was being sarcastic.

That’s what happens when I’m in a rush and talking about Bliar/BushCo.

“We spent a long time at dinner on Iraq. It is clear that Bush is grateful for your support and has registered that you are getting flak,” wrote David Manning, Blair’s foreign policy adviser, in a secret memo to the prime minister after dining with President Bush’s national security adviser Condoleezza Rice on 14 March 2002. “I said that you would not budge in your support for regime change but you had to manage a press, a parliament and a public opinion that was very different than anything in the States.

“Blair’s decision “not to budge” in support of regime change was confirmed by a subsequent memo, this time from the then British ambassador to Washington, Christopher Meyer, to Manning. This summarised a conversation he had had with Paul Wolfowitz, the US deputy defence secretary, on 17 March 2002: “I opened by sticking very closely to the script that you used with Condi Rice. We backed regime change, but the plan had to be clever and failure was not an option.”

“By the time Blair went to discuss the issue of Iraq with Bush in Crawford, Texas, on 6 April 2002, regime change – and not just disarmament – seems to have become his settled, private position. Alastair Campbell’s diary entry for 2 April 2002 notes that participants at one meeting “discussed whether the central aim was WMD or regime change”, and that “TB felt it was regime change”.”

http://www.newstatesman.com/uk-politics/2010/02/iraq-war-invasion-blair-regime

It’s becoming clearer and clearer that not only did Blair know the invasion was illegal but that he personally, along with a number of accomplices, was involved in looking for ways round the law.

If these criminals aren’t brought to book then there’s nothing to stop future criminals doing the same thing.

Blair and his gang of co-conspirators need to be arrested and held to account at the earliest opportunity, otherwise no one will have respect for international law.

Eddie

You come across as such a decent, kind human being. I can only hope that when you are dying, alone and frightened, like a child, that you remember some of the opinions you held. It is because of people like you that people like _that_ get away with the horror they inflict.

I do hope it’s a slow, cruel degenerative disease, so that you may have time to consider the world around you in a different light.

Have fun out there.

This ‘inquiry’ will do fuck all, as is the norm for such nonsense.

What is required is a Dragunov and a steady aim.

Lyne is probably doing quite nicely from his directorship of Aricom a Russian iron ore mining company now owned by Peter Hambro Mining (gold mining) descendants of the Hambro banking family. See how it all works?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Hambro_Mining

mary -

I agree that enquiry is filled with establishment figures who won’t rock the boat. However…..

“Both Freedman and Gilbert are Jewish.”

What’s that got to do with the price of fish? Would you be upset if it were Chomsky or Finkelstein asking Blair questions?

“Hand in glove”

On the matter of Iran I suspect US and Israeli views diverge. Yhe US seems much more circumspect about attacking Iran than Israel. It has consistently refused Irael the right to over-fly Iraq for instance. This is probably because Iran gives the US a great deal of assistance (in terms of intelligence and tactical advice) in Afghanistan. No-one hates the Taliban more than Iran.

“(the US) has consistently refused Irael the right to over-fly Iraq for instance. This is probably because Iran gives the US a great deal of assistance (in terms of intelligence and tactical advice) in Afghanistan”

Well, good lord, can you imagine it ?

“Oh golly gosh, look at that, who’d have thought it ? There we were asserting control of an airspace, and oh silly us, some other airforce flies its planes right through from one end to the other, all loaded full of weaponry and ready to kill, and we never noticed. Gosh. Our bad. Lucky it wasn’t us they were going for, eh ?”

It wouldn’t exactly be a deniable half-measure, they’d be all the way in.

Yes, I know the stories about Turkey and the Kurds, “but that’s different”. They don’t have the same power to do evil in return.

“Two weeks ago a Dutch inquiry, led by a former supreme court judge, found that the invasion had “no sound mandate in international law”. Last month Lord Steyn, a former law lord, said that “in the absence of a second UN resolution authorising invasion, it was illegal”. In November Lord Bingham, the former lord chief justice, stated that, without the blessing of the UN, the Iraq war was “a serious violation of international law and the rule of law”.”

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jan/25/bounty-blair-war-criminal-chilcot

It appears that the only lawyers who thought this war was lawful are the usual right wing American murderers and a political lawyer, Goldsmith.

Can’t really see how Blair can escape justice in the longer term.

“George Galloway denounces Iraq inquiry (establishment stitch up)”…

http://tinyurl.com/ycpbpgn

“In addition to facing a toothless inquiry, Blair also knows that he is not the only man with blood on his hands.”…

tinyurl.com/y8m4b3x

I don’t think Earthquakes are man made, for the simple reason that Seismic Monitoring Stations are widespread across the world, and scientists can easily tell the difference between a nuclear explosion and an earthquake, and some of them would undoubtedly speak up.

https://www.llnl.gov/str/Walter.html

However, in order to convince myself, that in this respect Chavez was probably talking nonsense with regards to Haiti, I came across this article by Terry Jones with regards to how the Iraqi disaster with enormous loss of life, is treated completely differently by the media, the governments and most of the world population’s mindset. The sad thing is that the vast majority of people aren’t interested and would rather have as headlines the sex lives of footballers.

A man-made tsunami

Why are there no fundraisers for the Iraqi dead?

Terry Jones

The Guardian, Tuesday 11 January 2005 09.11 GMT

guardian.co.uk/world/2005/jan/11/iraq.media

Tony

To me Blair is a very weak character, just a puppet of the global aristocracy, who has no doubt been amply rewarded by them. He’ll be able to wash away his sins in the confessional and perhaps the priest will understand as his argument might be that he killed a million Iraqis to save us from economic downfall and as a consequence maintained the dominance of Christianity.

But I have to say the man looks haunted. He may have the friendship of the global aristocracy who of course will spare no effort in protecting him but he lives amongst a people who loathe him. And maybe just one day there’ll be a security lapse and someone will get him. So for the rest of his life he’ll live in fear.

Global aristocracy ?

Such people would be noted for their integrity, humanity, intellect, and knowledge of history. Blair belongs to a group of people noted for their greed, callousness, stupidity and inability to concede the lessons of history. The present government and its opposition belong to it too.

UK plc is like a computer with a virus. The best thing to do with it is to re-install the software or buy a new one. If salt loses its taste, with what will you salt it? Where will you find integrity, humanity, intellect and wisdom? This inquiry was a video of the existing aristocracy. Did you see any evidence of any of these qualities. Please tell me.

An intelligent man in Blair’s position would have said, in my opinion. You have to balance the 1.5 million dead and 6 million displaced Iraqis with the political interests of the West. Saddam would have sold our economic competitors the second largest existing oil-field, and made Iraq more prosperous and sophisticated in culture and technology than East or West.

We were not prepared to stand by and allow a non-democratic ruler from Sunni Islam create another mini-superpower in the Middle East as a rival to Israel. We do have double standards in world politics. Zionist terror and extremism is acceptable but Islamic terror and extremism is unacceptable. You have to learn that fact about our history to understand why Iraq had to be crushed.

We regard our main economic rivals, China and Indian as basically uncivilised, and our main cultural rival, the Islamic world, as dangerously superior to us. We live in a political world. Get used to it. As UK Prime Minister I didn’t do anything different from any of the politicians or monarchs of this country’s past. There are people out there who are better than us. We send out troops to disrupt their economic and cultural progress. Always have and always will. Looking forward to my Knighthood and Peerage. I knew you would eventually agree with us.

“Can’t really see how Blair can escape justice in the longer term”

“So for the rest of his life he’ll live in fear”

If it gets too hot in the kitchen he will be granted political asylum in Israel. Requests for extradition will be politely refused.

SECRET MEMOS – TORTURE – IRAQ INQUIRY

From ‘Newsweek’ we learn:

Jay Bybee, now a federal appellate court judge, and John Yoo, now a law professor?”violated their professional obligations as lawyers when they crafted a crucial 2002 memo approving the use of harsh tactics, say two Justice sources who asked for anonymity discussing an internal matter. But the reviewer, career veteran David Margolis, downgraded that assessment to say they showed ‘poor judgment,’ say the sources. (Under department rules, poor judgment does not constitute professional misconduct.) The shift is significant: the original finding would have triggered a referral to state bar associations for potential disciplinary action?”which, in Bybee’s case, could have led to an impeachment inquiry.

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/declassified/archive/2010/01/29/holder-under-fire.aspx

“Even though the secret memos are no longer secret, even though they constitute the most serious crimes possible, even though complicity in torture is a felony, and even though Bybee lied to the United States Senate in order to be confirmed a judge, our representatives in the House of Representatives can’t impeach him because the Justice Department, the very same institution of organized crime in which he committed his abuses, only deemed Bybee’s crimes to be “misconduct” in the first version of its report but not the new and improved version? Both the Robert Jackson Steering Committee and the American Civil Liberties Union have filed Freedom of Information Act requests for the initial report, but what was in it has been widely reported. And why we need it has not been explained.”

impeachbybee.org/

The questioning by the Iraq commission parallels the strikingly unconventional retention of important documents in America.

Tony Blair lied to the nation on British involvement in the Iraq war. This is widely known in detail from undisputed memos and documents. The commission however, who have the documents in their possession, cannot publically refer to them because of their security classification.

How these documents can possibly legalise the Iraq war, or any war of aggression has still to be explained.

An FOI request will/has been made with the argument that without this information the British public will learn nothing.

A Californian Girl Writes What She Thinks, which the rest of us are not supposed to utter – or you will be castigated with a completely unacceptable anti-label – and slung in the politically incorrect gutter despite the overwhelming evidence.

http://thinkorbeeaten.blogspot.com/2009/01/zionist-imperialist-crime.html

Tony

Condolences to the family of Vijay Bhagotra who recently passed aged 65 a few days after his restaurant was named best in Wales at the British Curry Awards.

Vijay was born in Kashmir and came to the UK in 1970. PBUH.

Tony,

A beautiful piece, thank-you; is this the axis; the ‘world’s third largest’ military, will we see ‘change’ on phosphorus use?

Will we see any ‘change’ towards the underdog?

We will – two generations from now! Too far ahead for me to witness.

Null

Thanks for your kind words, i appreciate it. It sounds like sour grapes, but I will let it pass. I know there is a lot of anger on these boards due to Blair’s accomplished and slick performance yesterday, and I know it leaves you feeling powerless and murderous. Of course, in the grand scheme of things no one knows how the wheel of fortune will end up in the red or the black in the longer term, and history will judge, but that’s life. As he said yesterday, think about 2010 and a world where Saddam and his sons were still in power.

tony_opmoc at January 30, 2010 5:24 PM,

The accusation that Chavez claimed that the earthquake was manufactured is groundless. It came from “PressTV”, I think, and was re-quoted without corroboration. An article is linked from my name below.

“slick”

sick

George,

Thanks again for coming up with ‘the goods’ – very worrying, even simple analysis tells us that another war (with Iran?) could and will occur on the argument of pre-emptive force and the safety of British and other subjects.

Are we ‘better off’ in 2010? We are not, we are more afraid of conflict than ever before. I keep coming back to this point – remember the Falklands war – we (our people and land) were invaded; clear cut, no argy bargy – today, now, who knows – IS THIS ACCEPTABLE friends, can we live in a world like this? No we cannot. It is like living in a village under threat of attack, destruction of property and death because a neighbour feels unsafe about threats and intimidation. We resort to the law of the land to deal; in the same countries resort to the security council and res. 1441 – did not, did NOT my friends, authorise force or war.

“He has made not one single comment about Israel’s behaviour as a contributing factor in Middle East instability.”

http://tinyurl.com/yeqzjgx

tinyurl.com/ykr9xf9

Just in case anyone thinks I am in the slightest bit racist, I would like to point out that whilst we have been out tonight with our friends ?” seeing a rather good band and going to another pub afterwards, our daughter made a flying visit with her room mates some of who’m may well have been Californian Boys, that she phoned us up in the pub and asked if she could take my guitar and amp and electronic thing back to University

We replied ?” of course ?” well my wife did ?” she said he can’t play it anyway

And then we got chucked out of the pub at about 2:00am ?” which was really early ?” they normally serve till about 6:30 am, but said they were chucking us all out cos this bloke called Murray was playing cricket or something in the morning in Australia and they wanted some sleep and were re-opening at 8:00 am for breakfast

I think his first name is Andy and he is some Canadian or something

But I got bored with Tennis when this Yank said

You Can’t be Serious

I think He was called Byjorn Borg or something

The American Boys Wrote Us a Really Nice Note, on The End of The Other Stuff That Our Daughter and Her Friend Wrote

So Maybe a Decent Band Will Come Out Of It All

But the thing is if you are 18 years old you just want to have fun and you have no prejudices whatsoever, except they don’t want an old fart like me to sing in their band which is completely understandable

Our Children Are Our Way Forward

What Blows Me Away, Is That They Are So Incredibly Polite and Nice

Tony

They took everything except the guitar stand

Oh The Innocence of Youth

But what are they going to do with it when they are not playing it

A decent instrument likes a place to sleep at night

I won’t go into how much some of my friends love their instruments more than their … or wives or girlfriends

But some of my mates actually sleep with their guitars

Tony

(scratches head, looks bemused).

I have nothing to apologise about, but if someone gives me a really hard time, and I respond in a way they don’t expect – because Tony Never Does That

Then I will Apologise

Just to Keep The Peace.

There is No Point in Falling Out With Your Friends

An APOLOGY IS

A WEAPON OF MASS CONSTRUCTION

People just Can’t Believe It

And then everyone starts saying sorry

And we talk together and think how we can work together

To REBUILD

Our Real World

Which is

US

Human Beings

And Slowly Turn Our Planet Earth Around

I am Sure It is Possible

First we need to say sorry, and forget our ego for a minute, and then look forward and plan forward

What exactly are we planning for our grandchildren and their children?

We know who most of the really evil people are

I am completely against the idea of taking them all out on one night

I think War Crimes Trials are a Much Better Idea

Tony

Tony,

Sounds like a good night!

Problem,

I watched David Cameron(man from MI5?) make his first press conference for 2010.

Remembering Britain is broke from wars – (my point) David was asked by the BBC how he was going to cut the budget deficit in 4 years. Obviously he side-stepped the question by gaggling on about paying back the interest on credit cards being similar to the problem – blah blah blah.

What he intends to do is seriously RAISE taxes and seriously CUT the welfare program so that the poor, the unemployed the disabled and middle classes WILL HAVE TO PAY FOR THE WAR DEBT.

How nice of him – My advice – Vote Vince in, he will sort it out properly

vote for me!!!

Just write M and E in big letters accross your ballet papers.

writerman said:

“Blair is often termed “charming” and “personable”. He’s got a winning smile, an easy and amiable style, and on and on.”

Please allow me to introduce myself

I’m a man of wealth and taste…

“Falklands war”

http://tinyurl.com/y9xh5op

tinyurl.com/3cq4nd

tinyurl.com/ydsfmnb

“territorial claims”…

tinyurl.com/yav8obs

Am I alone in remembering rocketing interest rates after Maggie came in in 1979? We were more naive then. We didn’t know that banks and governments are two sides of the same coin, and interest from our pockets paid to banks is actually TAX paid into government pockets. We didn’t know that the marriage of democracy between the people and the state, was actually a threesome, with the banks rogering our government while we went out to work.

Now that we know, we should be careful to remember that Zionist City of London bankers are able to steer UK foreign policy, using blah-machines like Blair, Brown and Cameron. This statement has nasty racist overtones reminiscent of the second world war. That’s not because I am nasty and racist, but because Zionism is Racist and is in power in the UK, a lesson to remember from this recession.

Saddam Hussain was a racist Arab supremacist. He never represented the smallest threat to this country. he was a threat to Israel. Tony Blair’s job was just to stand and pose like a male model, while the Zionist bankers set to work in Washington to get the US to attack Islam. Blair was a decoy and being angry with him is a waste of time.

“Getting Away With Murder”

http://tinyurl.com/y98qu52

Anno,

that was well put, but I believe there’s a wider picture, too. The interests of Zionism and imperialism converge. War makes money for non-Zionists as well, so they support eachother.

January 31, 2010

“New mindset for US foreign policy?”…

http://tinyurl.com/ydfp6e7

The ever excellent Peter Dale Scott.

Clark. Hi.

I am always confused by the concept of people’s interests. I consider it in my interest to obey the commandments of Allah and if I do not, I fear the consequences.

Financing the African Slave Trade and falsely blaming the Muslims, was one of the continuing crimes which earned the Jews the punishment of the holocaust. The organisers were what we now call crypto-Jews. They were light-skinned and spoke Arabic because that was the international language of Muslim Africa at the time. The destruction of the Ottoman caliphate, its possession of Palestine, the de-Islamification of Turkey and the Turkish genocide of Armenians was also the work of crypto-Jews. The genocide of Iraq 2003 to now was also the work of US crypto-Jews.

It’s about bloody time wanker imperialists like Blair stopped converging their interests with those we politely call Zionists. People on this blog think Zionism is just about Israel.

Yes it is always about Israel, who attacked it, viz the Kurdish Salahuddin and his African army, and who had to be punished for attacking it; viz. Turkey in the first world war; viz Saddam Hussain. But it is the ability of those who fanatically protect the selfish interests of Israel to convince others to fight their proxy wars that has to be addressed.

There is no convergence of interests between the Zionists and the British people. We do not like being blamed for the Iraqi genocide and we will not tolerate our government continuing to be lobbied by and told what to do by these people. It’s happened for a thousand years and the process is now going to broken by the internet because it breaks the chain of deception, which is the speciality of Zionism.

What got me going this morning was Roman Catholic presenter Edward Stourton of Sunday on radio 4,talking on the pro-Zionist BBC, to British troops padre Canon Alan Billings. About: the convergence of the legality of the Iraq war and the morality of fighting the war.

It is a fact that with Tony Blair, Christianity has played a major role in justifying the Iraq war, in fulfilment of the hadith of our prophet SAW, that the priests would lead the armies against the Muslims to war.

Yeah, right, anno. “We” now call “them” “crypto-jews”, do we? So that “we” can blame everything on “them”. Who’s been teaching you history, mister? Stormfront?

As for your comment that Jewish people ‘earned’ the Holocaust in some way: I feel very, very sorry for you. Somewhere along the line, your organs of compassion, mercy and understanding have been truncated. I do hope not by your Prophet, who, after all, said: “Shall I not inform you of a better act than fasting, alms, and prayers? Making peace between one another: enmity and malice tear up heavenly rewards by the roots.”

Anno,

I did not hear the interview you mention. Did it suggest that the war on Iraq was legal and/or moral? If so, it would have angered me, too.

Using the term “Zionists” is not a matter of politeness, but of discrimination between those who support Israel’s violence, and Jews in general.

I really think you should retract your comment “…crimes which earned the Jews the punishment of the holocaust”. Millions suffered, who did not perpetrate such crimes.

Clark, are you saying that you believe ‘the Jews’ did commit such crimes? Or indeed that if some people who were Jewish (or, as anno has it, ‘crypto-Jews’, whatever that means) did ‘finance the African slave trade’(?) would that mean that the Holocaust was justified?

I don’t expect you are. Anno is not making sense, but then people blinded by the desire to seek an enemy seldom are.

Technicolour,

I try to avoid accusing any broad group of having committed specific crimes. Individuals and conspiracies commit crimes, not ethnic groups or faiths, though groups are sometimes manipulated to contribute.

Holocausts are never justified.

Anno is angry, can you blame him? He IS making some sense: “It’s about bloody time wanker imperialists like Blair stopped converging their interests with… Zionists.” [my edit]. That makes perfect sense. Give Anno time to calm down.

“Obama Palestians.mp4″…

http://tinyurl.com/yjbtgfm

Clark, I appreciate what you’re trying to say. I suppose I am quite angry too, at the sheer silliness of the history anno presents us with, and the sheer horror of his attempts to explain away the Nazis, and blame millions of Jewish people for their own slaughter.

“It’s about bloody time wanker imperialists like Blair stopped converging their interests with… Zionists.”

What do you mean by ‘Zionists’? Apart from that, yes, the UK should not converge its interests with those of the current murderous, illegal and brutal regime in Israel; or with energy companies, or arms manufacturers, or killers like Putin, or fascists like Berlusconi. But anno will not allow his analysis to go that far.

Anno, I understand that you’re angry. You’re not alone, judging by the comments across most of the mainstream media, and it seems to have nothing to do with being Muslim.

As well, anno, it’s a terrible thing, but Muslims have waged war on other Muslims, and killed other Muslims, and still do. Unless everyone stops trying to find one convenient explanation, and stops blaming everyone else, there will be no end to it.

On the bright side, again look at Sweden. A country which seems to have disproved the theory that violence and war are necessarily endemic in the human race (waits for news that it has just annexed Norway).

Some people commenting here (like Anno) could make lots of dosh writing for that once fine German newspaper called “Der Sturmer”. Fortunately it went out of production in 1945. How very sad this must feel for people like Anno.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Sturmer

31 January 2010

“Ex-MI6 chief likely to give evidence to Chilcot inquiry behind closed doors”…

http://tinyurl.com/y9r6pkp

Just got home from Africa in case anyone missed me. Now I am going to sleep.

From the bones of the oppressed comes an angel.

Craig,

welcome back. I missed you, particularly at the Chilcot demo, where I hoped you were going to speak. But thanks for attending to your blog even while you were away.

Technicolour,

“Zionists” seems to have been used as a label for those who expand Israel at whatever cost, though I did recently notice a brief debate on this site about different types of Zionist. I hope the nomenclature doesn’t become even more complicated.

I don’t know enough history to comment on those aspects of Anno’s post – I do know that history records the actions of millions of people, and that consequently different people may have different outlooks and interpretations; different people know of different things that happened.

——– POWER ———-

“It would never occur to Tony Blair that there might be more respect for a Prime-Minister who had the courage to say NO to someone as powerful as the President of the US. Tony, is programmed to respect power, not to rebel against it.

Psychologically he is ill equipped to repeat Howard Wilson’s refusal of US demands for British troops in Vietnam.

“I am certain the real reason he went to war[in Iraq] is he found it easier to resist the public opinion of Britain, than a request from the US President.”

Robin Cook MP

‘The Point of Departure’

Its now absolutely clear to anyone that we have appointed a warmongering unrepentent sly and obfusecating dog as our middle east peace envoy.

I am not surprised of the influence that is brought to the inquiry, I think Gilberts interview on Israels radio and his complaint about british newspaper articles questioning his and Mr. freemans part in this ‘lovey sextett’, was merely to prepare us fro Tony’s diversion of the subject.

I think comments unrelated to the issue, after all Dr. kelly’s demise, directly related to the issue was not allowed, should be errased from the protocols.

Finally I would not be surprised, should his perverse comments not be scrapped from records, if they will one day be used to justify an attack on Iran.

Why should taxpayers want to waste good money and time on scoundrels such as him?

Should one take a leaf out of his book when we think about his punishment?, after all, he supports and furthers Israels machinations, the Gaza concentration camp stalemate,the East Jerusalem and west bank land steal and Israels war aims, which includes assasinations of Hamas opponents, even in other countries.

What Anno said is actually the words of religious Jews. If you want conformation of this do a search for Neturei Karta etc.

What he said is so smiler to what I myself heard a Orthodox Rabbi saying, Anno might have been quoting him word for word.

The punishment and the reward of God is something all religions believe in, including Judaism.

Zionism is an atheist creed, that has no connection to Judaism what so ever. The founder was an open atheist who attempted to divorce Jews from Judaism and turn them in to a pseudo ethnic group. So you can say Zionism and Israel are an attempt to call Jews away from believing in God and their scripture and in to uniting on the bases of Racism against the other.

When this ideology was first created Rabbis openly stated that the punishment of God will soon follow. After the Holocaust some Jews abandoned Judaism and embarrassed Zionism while others abandoned the Zionists and embraced Judaism to a greater degree.

Crypto Jews are the followers of Sabbatai Zevi.

The old testament states that a Messiah will come. Muslims and Jews believe that Messiah has already come and he was Jesus(May peace be upon him).

Many people have claimed this title. And Jews have always been split on each of them. Except for Sabbatai Zevi. He was universally accepted by all Jews as the Promised Messiah. That was until he converted to Islam. When that happened there was international confusion in the world’s Jews. Some Jews rejected him, and these are the ancestors of today’s Jews. Others followed suit and converted to Islam, and these have assimilated in to the wider Muslim community. While a third group continued to believe he was the promised messiah, and believed he only pretended to convert to Islam, and they followed and pretended to convert while secretly practicing Judaism. It wasn’t a secret that such people had only fained conversion because they only married amongst themselves so they were not accepted by Muslims as Muslims, instead they were called Dunma. And because the wider Jewish community had rejected Sabbatai Zevi, they weren’t accepted as Jews Either. Over time this religion evolved in to an amalgamation of Islam and Judaism.

The Most famous follower of this Religion was Mustafa Kemal Attaturk the founder of Modern Turkey.

What Anno meant was Mustafa Kemal destroyed the Khilafah. After which he set about secularising Turkey.

Islom Karamov the man who boils Muslims alive in Uzbeckistan is also Dunma.

Sorry mistake. I meant Muslims and Christians believe the Messiah was Jesus.

Sorry

Clark: complicated nomenclature for complex situations, I think.

To take just one example in anno’s ‘history’, if you really think the African slave trade *might* have been the fault of light-skinned Arab speaking ‘crypto jews’, words fail me.

Mark – Did Robin Cook really refer to ‘Howard’ Wilson ?

As eddie points, Blair invited us to “think about 2010 and a world where Saddam and his sons were still in power”. Eddie however is clearly too seduced and bamboozled by Blair’s ‘accomplished’ performance to point out also that military action to achieve regime change is also prohibited under international law.

It is obvious that the actual purpose of the invasion was the occupation of Iraq and the control of its territory, people and resources. As countless examples demonstrate, there are far subtler ways of achieving regime change if that is all that’s required.

Behind Blair’s blatant dissembling and obfuscation seems to be an attempt to debase and marginalise the very notion of international law itself. His was a rallying call to aggressive, imperialist powers to invade their target countries with impunity. All they need to do is come up with some unctuous, self-serving post de facto rationalisation of their actions; international law be damned.

Saddam was a very bad man, but the American occupation which has now replaced him is even worse, while the puppets who the Americans have choosen to take over the occupation are worse still!

“For Iraqi women: Life better under Saddam”…

http://tinyurl.com/36pdwg

“Life ‘better’ for gay Iraqis under Saddam Hussein.”…

tinyurl.com/mbhe4q

Well said Ingo.

and by the way ‘the fascist Berlusconi’ (quoted above) is about to visit Israel.

Another matter – Sir Lawrence Freedman left a note dated 18th January on the Iraq Inquiry website, addressed to Chilcot, saying that he had taken part in the composition of Blair’s Chicago speech. (Under the heading ‘News’).

If you read Peter Wilby’s reviews of some Blair biographies in 2007, he quotes Kampfner -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2007/may/05/biography.politicalbooks

As Kampfner puts it, “he had demonstrated his instincts, but he had yet to fashion them into a coherent vision”. A long-standing engagement to speak in Chicago provided the opportunity. The military historian Lawrence Freedman was invited, according to Kampfner, to craft, within two days, “a philosophy that Blair could call his own”, complete with benchmarks as to when countries should intervene in others’ affairs. Freedman obliged, thinking he was one of several people being consulted, and was amazed to read a speech that relied almost entirely on his proposals. Blair had announced “a new doctrine of international community” and proclaimed “we are all internationalists now”.

But Kosovo created a new Blair image: not a man, as Stephens puts it, “tossed to and fro in the winds of public opinion”, but one firm of purpose and resilient in adversity. The admiring Rawnsley writes: “He took a stance and, as others scurried for cover, he held to it.” In his insistence on stepping up the war and introducing ground troops, he was largely isolated both in the Western Alliance and in his government. The outcome, writes Seldon, “further increased his reliance on and trust in the small circle around him”. It also “ingrained in Blair that he was the bridge between the United States and Europe, and that he uniquely could explain the one to the other”.

The road to Baghdad therefore led directly from Pristina where, after the Kosovo war, Blair was acclaimed as a hero. All the evidence produced by his biographers suggests that, after Kosovo, Blair was itching to implement once more the newly minted philosophy revealed in Chicago. According to Kampfner, Blair’s concern about the election of George W Bush in 2000 was that this would be “a stay-at-home president”. He told Mandelson that “we’ve got to turn these people into internationalists”.

9/11 did exactly that, after a fashion. But there remained a crucial difference between Blair and Bush. The latter would act when he saw a threat to American national security. America was strong enough to protect herself. Allies were not essential, but welcome, and not even that in some neoconservative quarters. But as Stephens explains, Blair wanted a new “global architecture” in which the leading nations took continuing responsibility for peace-making and nation-building. To him, how Saddam was overthrown mattered as much as whether he was overthrown.

For the war in Afghanistan, he was able to help construct the necessary alliance. In the three months after 9/11, reports Kampfner, Blair “worked the phones and travelled”, meeting the leaders of more than 70 countries to put together a coalition not just for military action, but also to work with America for a new world order.

a~~

That is the crux, the new world order and the PNAC.. both Bushes, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Perle, Wolfowitz, Kristol, Kagan and the rest. The United Nations have been disempowered by the waging of an illegal war on Iraq a sovereign country. The powweful now own the law.

Would you not agree that Freedman’s eligibility to be on this panel (however much it is just a theatrical piece) is called into question?

Arsalan, you made my jaw drop. A group of Jewish people who pretend to be Muslims but who ‘practice’ Judaism secretly, but who do it so badly that everyone knows they are Jewish, really? And who were rejected by the wider Jewish community, but are still considered Jewish?

Good luck with it.

Ataturk, apparently, said the following: “I have no religion, and at times I wish all religions at the bottom of the sea. He is a weak ruler who needs religion to uphold his government; it is as if he would catch his people in a trap. My people are going to learn the principles of democracy, the dictates of truth and the teachings of science. Superstition must go. Let them worship as they will; every man can follow his own conscience, provided it does not interfere with sane reason or bid him against the liberty of his fellow-men.”

Karimov was apparently born in an orphanage; I can’t find any source for his religion.

Still, Zevi’s story is fascinating, it is true. Do you know what else is fascinating? Some Christians believe that Christ was rescued from the cross and escaped to Kashmir.

Otherwise your distinction between Zionism and Judaism fails to include the people who do practice the Jewish faith, which involves loving-kindness, and who currently live in Israel. But you may feel they are of no account.

Arsalan – “After the Holocaust some Jews abandoned Judaism and embarrassed Zionism”

*giggle*

I’m sorry, I’m a sucker for a neat misspelling. I’m guessing you meant ‘embraced’.

The Sabbatai Zevi story looks interesting, I hadn’t heard it before. Another thing to chase after, some time. Thanks.

DEATH SQUADS ON THE INCREASE IN IRAQ – FAMILIES TOO FRIGHTENED TO RETURN

The number of armed contractors in Iraq is rising. Last year, Blackwater executive thugs realised a golden opportunity for mercenary companies with the prospect of US forces being withdrawn or reduced in Iraq by President Obama.

Chief death monger, Schmitz said, “There is a scenario where we could as a government, the United States, could pull back the military footprint and there would then be more of a need for private contractors to go in.”

Schmitz, a high Blackwater executive priest, was right and ‘Rob’ working for a British security company out of Dubai has confirmed an increase, certainly in mercenaries.

Triple Canopy, the successor to Blackwater (renamed company?) work on State Department contracts and according to new statistics released by the Pentagon, with President Obama as commander in chief, there has been a 29% increase in the number of “Private Security Contractors” working for the Department of Defense in Iraq.

Overall, contractors (armed and unarmed) now make up approximately 50% of the “total force in Centcom AOR [Area of Responsibility].” That is 242,657 contractors working on the US war in Iraq and US/UK war in Afghanistan.

At present there are 162,610 British and American mercenaries in Iraq and 108,197 in Afghanistan. The American report notes that while the deployment of security contractors in Iraq is increasing, there was an 22% decrease in re-building contractors in Iraq from the first quarter of 2009 due to the “ongoing efforts to reduce the contractor footprint in Iraq.”

http://www.acq.osd.mil/log/PS/hot_topics.html

P.S.

New World Order

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a9Syi12RJo

Thanks, Mark. Not good. When was the last time you were out there?

Technicolour, this is an intriguing area. There are indeed possible allusions to old Jewish communities in both Afghanistan and Kashmir, the remnants of customs, place-names, etc. Of course, the various Persian Empires, in which many Jews lived, extended to some of these areas, there were many Jewish communities in the states to the north – Uzbekistan, for example – and also to the south in what is now Pakistan, so it’s entirely plausible that either the people or the customs or both point to interesting histories.

Actually, I drew on a lot of this kind of material for my novel, ‘Joseph’s Box’. The Joseph of the title refers to the Biblical/ Quranic Joseph/ Yusuf, who is the dream interpreter and symbol of perfect spiritual human beauty, something for which we may only strive.

The Greeks were there, too, for several hundred years around 300 BC to 100 AD and the Greeks became Buddhist missionaries and spread Buddhism to Sri Lanka and possibly also China. There are cities in northern Pakistan which are Graeco-Buddhist and Taxila Museum is filled with syncretic statuary.

The Solomon Sisters were the top pop music act in Pakistan during the 1940s and 1950s and Barbara Sharif was a top movie star there during the 1960s, 70s and 80s. All of these people were/ are Jewish Pakistanis. There was a thriving community in Karachi, of which only a few people are left; idiotic anti-semitic attitudes abound, and have been fertilised constantly by the Saudi-financed mental idiocy that makes people behave more like they’re part of a cult than a religion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Pakistan

I like to bring all of this type of thing to the fore, partly because it’s absolutely fascinating and also because it debunks the utter bellowing stupidity which crowds out thought, humanity and indeed, spirituality today and which is iterated, blasphemously, in the name of this or that deity. The take-home message? Here it is:

We are all descended from, and related to, one another. To kill or degrade someone else is to kill or degrade a part of ourselves.

that was to Mark Golding.

mark with a small m: I am not defending the panel, though I look forward to its conclusions. But taking it on its own terms, one could argue that Freedman, someone who had obliged with a hypothetical scenario only to have it implemented, might well be horrified at the result. The report you quote suggests as much. As does the fact that Freedman was the only member of the panel to refer in any direct way to the suffering of the Iraqi people.

Suhayl, am inclined to agree.

And what a privilege it is to learn such things. Am looking forward to both Anno’s and Arsalan’s responses.

Craig – I think we should donate to George Monbiot’s website http://www.arrestblair.org. I will be sending some money this week. Based on your devastating analysis, I am going to recommend that GM includes Jack Straw as a target for citizen’s arrest.

It will take take time but we will nail these SOBs.

Who is the President?

http://tinyurl.com/Israeli-war-party

MJ: I agree. What a sight to see the UK government disposing itself of international law like that. As well as the fact that our ‘Middle East Peace Envoy’ is now apparently calling for war against Iran. How can he?

I think we need to support someone sensible, who will not end up a crazed warmonger and the public face of Louis Vuitton. As far as leaders go, I have some hopes of Nick Clegg, together with the fact that, unlike the USA, we already have a functioning third party. Does anything know anything terrible about the Lib Dems which, in the absence of a stonking independent candidate, would prevent people voting for them?

Njegos

Thank-you.

Your link is most welcome. I will donate. Is this on Facebook?

Anno,

Arsalan,

Suhayl Saadi,

thank you all. I had never heard of any of this.

Technicolour,

LibDems?

I addressed my local party on Iraq and they cheered me!

I have much respect for Vince, I believe he would make a good Chanceller and we all know the Libs were against the Iraq massacre. Yes please friends – vote LibDem and bring honour back to Great Britain or at the very least secure a ‘hung’ Parliament.

Njegos,

arrestblair.org is an excellent idea. Yes, I shall suggest that Jack Straw is added, too.

Technicolour,

history, eh? It’s not something you can know, it’s a study. I just read Jared Diamond’s “Guns, Germs and Steel”, which is about the development of food production since the last ice-age, and which I thought was excellent. The epilogue is entitled “The Future of Human History as a Science”.

Yes, but Mark (Golding) if this meant that, say, Paul Flynn in Newport would go, I would be against. Mmm.

I don’t accept, you see, that we are governed by a ruling cabal which is in itself subject to an over riding authority (the PM). Perhaps I should. If you do, it makes sense to elect any person, of any stamp, as long as the leader to whom they owe allegiance is relatively decent.

At the same time, if a decent leader has only the support of thoroughly unscrupulous and self-interested people, how long will they remain decent?

Still, at the very least, people could be trying to contact their Lib Dem contender and finding out how they would vote/have voted on issues like the invasion; id cards; ‘anti-terrorism’ laws and so on. Rather than conclude that ‘none of them’ are worth it? Because parliament itself is under threat.

“but are still considered Jewish?”

It depends on who you ask.as Jewish they are not regarded as so by Israel. The funny thing is Atheists with Jewish maternal ancestry can go to Israel without conversion.

Ataturk, apparently, said the following: “I have no religion,”

I wasn’t really talking about his personal beliefs, more about his ancestry.

in the autobiography of Itamar Ben-Avi he quotes attaturk as saying:

“I’m a descendant of Sabbetai Zevi – not indeed a Jew any more, but an ardent admirer of this prophet of yours. My opinion is that every Jew in this country would do well to join his camp.”

” ‘I have at home a Hebrew Bible printed in Venice. It’s rather old, and I remember my father bringing me to a Karaite teacher who taught me to read it. I can still remember a few words of it, such as –’ ”

And Ben-Avi continues:

“He paused for a moment, his eyes searching for something in space. Then he recalled:

” ‘Shema Yisra’el, Adonai Elohenu, Adonai Ehad!’

” ‘That’s our most important prayer, Captain.’

” ‘And my secret prayer too, cher monsieur,’ he replied, refilling our glasses.”

“Karimov was apparently born in an orphanage; I can’t find any source for his religion.”

With Karimov like most children left at Orphanages had an unknown father. His Mother was of Donma heritage though, the reason we know this is he stated it himself to an Israeli ambassador. I don’t know the exact quote though. I think he said something like “I am Jewish too because my mother was Jewish”.

It doesn’t really mean he himself believes in Judaism, because that is what an uncle of mine says to Jews as an ice breaker when they meet for multi faith forums.

“Some Christians believe that Christ was rescued from the cross and escaped to Kashmir.”

This is the real reason for my reply.

I don’t know of any Christians who state that but do know of a cult that has broken away from Islam who state that. They are known as Qayanis but would prefer to be known as Ahmedis. They are universally declared as Non-Muslims by every sect and school of thought in Islam. No one believes that belief but themselves and the reason they adopted that belief is:

During the British raj in India Muslims and Hindus fought the British together. the founder of Qadyanism told the Muslims, they are no longer allowed to fight the occupation because Jihad by the sword has been replaced by Jihad by the pen, he said God told him so. The Quran states Mohummed pbh is the final Prophet so Muslims declared him a none Muslim. He stated that he isn’t a new one, instead he is the reincarnation of Jesus, even though it is Hindus and not Muslims who believe in reincarnation.

To be able to say this he had to say Jesus was dead, which would be difficult because the Quran states God saved Jesus, Muslims believe Jesus was raised up alive and Judas was made to look like Jesus and he was the one crucified.

So what Qadyanis say is Jesus was crucified, escaped from the cross alive and went to Kashmir, lived and died. And he stated the Grave of a well known Muslim saint was really the grave of Jesus. They are banned from visiting that grave just as they are banned from praying at any Muslim site because they are universally declared as heretics.

Tech: “Otherwise your distinction between Zionism and Judaism fails to include the people who do practice the Jewish faith, which involves loving-kindness, and who currently live in Israel. But you may feel they are of no account. ”

Unlike America where the Indians were killed so people from Europe can go and live there more than a hundred years ago(Indian killers died along time ago), with Israel it is happening now. The colonialists who are there now are the same people who did the killings and expulsions.

People are going there knowing, that others are being kicked out and killed for them to be able to do that.

But people can claim to be nice people as much as they like, but what they have done is not nice.

There is no Niceness in Zionism just as there is no niceness in Nazism. There is no such thing as Good Racism. And that is what Zionism is, Racism.

Yes there are a Few, very few Jews who are there who moved there before Israel was created, even fewer whose family moved there before Zionism was created, and if these people are not Zionists then yes it is possible they could be good people. True this may not apply to the people who are born there, or who were dragged there as kids by their parents and who reject what their parents did there by rejecting Zionism. But if anyone accepts that People from Europe are allowed to go the Asia, and massacre people, and expel people from there homes. Even if these massacres and explosions were the work of their parents and not their own, such a person is not and can never be a good person, no matter what they say about themselves.

The first time I came across the word was when I was reading the the world religion table in the encyclopedia Britannica. In the Muslim section it had Sunni, Shia and other with the corresponding percentage.

at the bottom of the Jewish section it had crypto Jew, which I remembered because I hadn’t heard it before.

But when it comes to immigrating to Israel they have to go through an Orthodox conversion ceremony because even though they regard themselves

sorry again. the bit at the bottom, which starts with “the first time” is meant to be at the top when I explain crpto Jews.

Sorry,

“at the very least secure a ‘hung’ Parliament.”

Wot, without so much as a fair trial ?

I’d like to know why nobody mentioned oil at the Iraq inquiry? It played quite a big part in the reason for invading, after all, didn’t it?

Suhayl Saadi

The Problem with Pakistan is it is a Horrible place.

It’s problems are nothing to do with foreign influences, from Saudi or anywhere else.

My wife is a Paki, and a couple of years after we got married I went there to see her family.

What I noticed was the complete absence of the rule of law.

Police officers were taking bribes openly. I know it happens everywhere, bot not like this. It was happening out in the street in the open in full view of everyone.

Another thing is people pissing in the street. People from the UK may think this is not unusual. But the thing you do not realise is Pakistan is full of Mosques.

Every Mosque has a washroom with toilets. instead of walking a few meters to a Mosque like I did when I wanted a piss, they did it on the street. There was a sign that read, please don’t piss on the street, instead use to public toilet. and there was a public toilet about 10 meters away, but people pissed on that sign.

And there was violence too. Not the sort you find here that happens because some one supports a different football team to yourself. But violence whose reasons I could not workout.

I saw a lot of violence there mostly as a result of insults.

So yes I believe Idiots and their antisemitism may have driven out Pakistan’s Jewish community. But No I don’t believe Pakistanis need Saudi money to behave like idiots, because they seem to be doing ok behaving like idiots for free.

Don’t know if anyone has seen this. Or if it’s worth attention.

“Professor to launch ‘Nuremberg’ war crimes prosecution against Blair”

[daily mail]

I don’t know this Professor Bill Bowring guy.

http://tinyurl.com/ybkqrza

PRECURSOR TO WAR WITH IRAN -

I seriously believe war with Iran is on the agenda at secret high ranking military talks. Again I believe Israel wants to strike before Russian S300 systems are fully deployed around Iranian nuclear sites and other sites.

The light is on amber!

http://tinyurl.com/iran-war-imminent

Arsalan, if you’re not talking about personal beliefs, but about ancestry, what hope do any of us have?

Interesting about Karimov. Why would he say that? When did he say that?

I take your uncle’s point, though. As Kinky Friedman has said: “each of us has within him a little bit of the Nazi and a little bit of the Jew”. Or words to that effect.

Apparently, it is true, among some Christians. They believe that Jesus was fed a potion on the cross to simulate death, and was then revived by herbs while in the tomb. This has always struck me as a cheerful version of the crucifiction, and therefore, perhaps, not unlikely to be disregarded.

The Muslim version is, after he was identified to the Romans by Judas, God raised Jesus up and transformed Judas to look like Jesus. Judas was Crucified.

Jesus will return to kill the AntiChrist.

After which he will live a normal life, marry, have children and die.

I think the Gospel of Barnabas and early Unitarian Christians who followed it share the Muslim belief.

@arselan: Wot a pathetic and despicable way to condemn an entire race! What about ppl who were born in Israel? Or is guilt genetic? What about the moderates and humanitarians who disagree with their govrmnt? The conscientious objectors? Israel was created as sanctuary to escape persecution from raving antisemites like you – of which there were far too many, esp. in the 30s & 40s.

If you popped up in Israel spouting that kind of cancerous bigotry, you’d deserve to get your ass kicked out of the country!

Talking about Personal Beliefs of people you do not know personally is very difficult.

But remember the Donma are a community,

Anno mentioned them using the word crypto Jew.

People din’t know what it meant so I explained.

I mentioned two famous people who were of that community. Come to think of it, may be just one?

I know Attaturk was Dunma, and that is well documented. With Karimov all we really have is his conversation with the Israeli ambassador. Even though there was a Dunma community in Uzbeckistan, most of whom who have now immigrated to Israel. That statement doesn’t really tell us if his Mum was Dunma or mainstream Jewish?

The man who said “turn the other cheek” and “never do violent harm to anyone, even in self-defence” is going to return to ‘kill’ the ‘anti-christ’?

Reminds me of that great quote: “sometimes I thank God I’m an atheist”.

Zohan read more than one of my posts before you say such things.

We are talking about Zionists not Jews.

You might be thick enough to think they mean the samething, but the English language isn’t!

Zionists are not Jews and Jews are not Zionists.

Zionists are just Racist Nazis.

Arsalan,

I find your comment a bit bizarre – you are describing a micro-cosmopolitan I have seen in many poor regions especially Africa, India and the ports near Singapore. Pakistan is helping us fight terrorism and her nuclear capability I believe is a caution right now, a comma to the planners of another pre-emptive war.

Mark Golding,

how stretched is the US military, in your estimate? And what are the relative strengths of the various countries they’re active in?

Technicolour,

I’m betting on a two election strategy by the Conservatives with Labour content to to hold onto power in a ‘hung Parliament. I think the stats point to that. I personally want to give Nick Clegg a bit of freedom by winning seats, if not then Libs are doomed. But I have my own agenda which I unselfishly or otherwise admit. I want to put the brakes on DC’s significant expenditure cuts for one, but more importantly I see a war on the horizon as you know and DC I believe is a budding Blair – sorry if that upsets people but that is my view.

If anyone wishes to explore in a positive manner, with an open mind:

Check out: http://www.pakistanifilmfest.com

Also, there is an exhibition on right now at the Saatchi Gallery in London of art from South Asia (incl. Pakistan):

http://www.saatchi-gallery.co.uk/artists/rashid_rana.htm

There’s much more, of course, but anyone who wants to will find it, will see it. Those who don’t will remain willfully blind. That’s their loss.

I live in Glasgow’s West End, the university area, it’s a good area. Yet people – students and others – regularly use my street as a toilet when drunk – I’ve written to the council about it. Last year, a student was raped three streets away from I live and at night drug addicts regularly crowd into the 24 hour shops, sometimes, dripping 70% positive Hepatitis C positive blood onto the polite (Pakistani) shopkeepers. I do not exaggerate. But there are wonderful things about Glasgow, it’s a great, vibrant city, with super people, full of stories, erudition and history and has some wonderful museums and galleries. Look for the good, you’ll find it. Wherever in the world you go, look for the bad, you’ll find it. Free your mind. Peace.

Clark,

You are right of course America is stretched, the deficit is huge, and the war bucket has leaked out. America has control of Iraq and Afghanistan as effective launching pads for drones (Obama has given the green light for a massive expansion program). India has started manufacturing UAE’s as well.

http://afpakwar.com/blog/archives/2011

Spy drones are now common place, even the police have them! So I predict a drone war – networked drones that arrive on masse in waves, while Israel sneaks in behind with the MOP’s. Am I mad? Probably.

Mark Golding,

UAEs? MOPs? Sorry, my acronyms are rusty. Why does the US want Iran to stop making nuclear fuel? Why not concentrate on preventing weaponisation? The robotic warfare development is extremely worrying. This is where International Law is needed, and the UK are currently trashing it.

Yes, try to encourage a hung parliament, and a Tory majority would be a disaster – at least SOME labour MPs voted against the war.

Dreoilin,

Prof Bill Bowring, human rights lawer, practicing barrister, formerly University of Essex, now Birkbeck College, London, there’s a 2007 Times article about him being chucked out of Russia.

Suhayl Saadi,

yes, there is good in all people, most normal people want to get on with their lives. It’s a classic positive feedback loop; good conditions lead to good behaviour lead to better conditions… but it can run the other way, too.

Clark,

UAE should read UAV = unmanned Aerial vehicle.

MOP = massive ordinance projectile design to penetrate rock/concrete to a depth of between 200-300 feet and explode.

Iran and nuclear fuel – Israel is paranoid about Iran’s nuclear enrichment program, the process that can power reactors with low enriched uranium or with further enrichment, used in an atomic bomb similar to the one dropped on Hiroshima.

Although Iran has the knowledge to construct a crude bomb, she has no interest in developing one, despite claims of secret enrichment locations (under threat – seems obvious)

Iran wants to refine and sell most, if not all of it’s oil and rely on nuclear power for her domestic energy.

Her oil sales will not be dollar based and most will go to China. In very simplistic terms the West will suffer, the IMF will suffer and the World Bank will be defunct. Hence the desire to smash her. Therefore to me it is crucial we change – give up hegemony, give up pointless war (esp. after the carnage in Iraq) and engage with Iran -many opportunities exist there for British expertise. That will crush the long standing relationship as America’s staunt ally unless we can pursuade America to break with the Israeli regime and follow our lead – impossible? I have to say yes – so a pre-emptive strike is inevitable.

Absolutely.

During the 1980s, the CIA had its largest station outside Langley in Pakistan – it was on the main road b/w Islamabad and Rawalpindi. Over several decades, extreme (and extremely wealthy) reactionaries from Saudi Arabia have poured billions into setting up ‘madrassahs’ all over Pakistan, for a long time with the blessing of the CIA (while the cannon-fodder produced was useful to them). Those who have bought into the current fashion for dogmatic, simple-minded religion as a substitute for thought will refuse to criticise the Saudi Arabian regime because that’s where their cult derives its money from.

There were endemic problems in Pakistan – rural feudalism, poor literacy, mal-distribution of wealth, the military… the usual panoply of a ‘Third World’ client state, perpetuated by an ‘anti-communist’ (for which, read anti-anything-which-redressed injustice) alliance b/w the US state and the Pakistan military of which General Zia-ul-Haq (and all the military dictators the country has had) was the epitome.

But outside forces – let’s call a spade a spade, the USA – in systemic collusion with various internal elites, very much had to do with the internal destabilisation of the Pakistan over several decades. The entire Afghan War of the 1980s b/w the USA and the USSR was fought through Pakistan. To attempt to deny this is ahistorical and simply beggars belief. We now are watching the direct results of those policies.

This also has nothing to do with bashing anything Pakistani just because it remains acceptable in he UK to do so. If someone hates or despises ‘Pakis’, or ‘Jews’, or any other group of people for whatever reason, or seems to feel the need to homogenise 170 million people into a row of guys pissing against a wall, that’s their problem, but it is important that such facile and visceral racism not be confused with political analysis or even with self-examination.

Reminds me of that great quote: “sometimes I thank God I’m an atheist”.

–techniclour [sic][or technciolour*]

It’s cultural baggage. Many atheists (like me) will say “God love her” or “Thank God he wasn’t killed”, but it’s nothing more than habit/upbringing/culture.

There’s that joke about atheists in a lifeboat, who all start praying when it starts to sink. I used to wonder if I’d be one of them. I found out otherwise. The night before major heart surgery I was told by one of the junior docs (doing the whole consent form thing) that I had a 1 in 15 chance of copping it on the operating table.

Five minutes after he left, a nurse came in and asked me did I want to see a priest (although I’d put myself down as atheist on the sign-in form. That’s Ireland for you.)

I said “God, no!”. And I didn’t. But the nurse is still looking at me.

*You frequently mis-spell your handle. Is there more than one of you? Or do you have dyslexic fingers when you type fast, like I do?

Clark,

Thanks for the info on Prof Bill Bowring. I’m *assuming* it’s highly unlikely that he’ll get anywhere.

By the way, I see that those medical records (supposedly sealed for 70 years) in the David Kelly case will be released to those doctors who are demanding an inquest. It’s good news.

so a pre-emptive strike is inevitable.

–Mark Golding

I’m very afraid that you’re right. And it will be another atrocity on the part of our so-called “side” (Not in My Name!). Even the US intelligence agencies say there is no bomb or plans for one.

Suhayl Saadi

Ok I’ll write Glasgow, just bellow Pakistan in my list of places I don’t want to go.

I’m glad you mentioned Pakistani Films. Because that is something else I hate about Pakistan. All the films are crap. Lollywood is just a cheap knockoff of Bollywood.

Couldn’t they add some off their own culture in to it?

The only thing worse than Pakistani Movies is Pakistan’s television shows.

Crap! All crap except for George’s Pakistan, but that was staring an English Guy. The rest of it was completely rubbish especial that transvestite attempting a cheap knock off of dame edna.

And the cooking shows, each and everyone of them is a knock off of two fat ladies.

And Pakistani food is crap too.

And I hate the Urdu Language, all it is is Hindi. But Pakistanis seem to think it is a form of Arabic for some reason?

I hate it so much so that I have forbidden my wife to speak to my children in that language.

“Tony Blair Iraq inquiry evidence ludicrous, says Short”…

http://tinyurl.com/ycpfjqf

“737 U.S. Military Bases = Global Empire”…

tinyurl.com/yafns3y

Arsalan,

Interestingly a neighbour is an Indian lady, aspires to the Hindu faith, partnered with an Englishman and between them they had a little girl. He turned out to be a thief and went to prison.

She met a Pakistani man(a taxi driver) and they had a son. They fell out of love for each other very quickly and parted. However the Pakistani man was solid with his son, paid for his education in a private nursery and visited most days. He insisted his son was bought up in the Muslim faith.

I asked the Indian lady why she partnered with this man and she replied, “because I knew he was safe.” Her daughter, now a young lady, hated the Muslim man and left home, never to return. A broken home for all the wrong reasons perhaps?

“so a pre-emptive strike is inevitable”

It has seemed inevitable for a few years now but hasn’t materialised. Attacking a well-defended country with very powerful allies is a rather different kettle of fish from invading Iraq or Afghanistan, Lebanon or Gaza.

Blair was cranking up a conflict with Iran on Friday.

This article from the Guardian tonight reports Obama putting in a Patriot anti-missile shield for countries neighbouring countries and keeping two warships in place in the Gulf capable of firing missiles.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/31/iran-nuclear-us-missiles-gulf

Note ‘Pro-Israel lobby groups in the US have joined Republican party leaders in trying to build public pressure on the administration to take a tougher line with Iran. One group, the Israel Project, has been running a TV campaign warning that Iran might supply nuclear weapons to terrorists.’

and

‘Tony Blair, Middle East envoy on behalf of the US, Russia, the UN and the EU, continually referred to what he described as the Iranian threat during his evidence at the Chilcot inquiry last Friday. Textual analysis now shows that he mentioned Iran 58 times.

Besides the new missile deployment, Washington is also helping Saudi Arabia to create a 30,000-strong force to protect oil installations and other infrastructure, as well as expanded joint exercises between the US and military forces in the region.’

It’s starting up all over again. Have the neocons not spilt enough blood already?

Essentialisation and racism as a substitute for thought and the seeking of knowledge. The spectacle of an individual who revels in the fact that they haven’t got a clue is always amusing. And yet – and so – repeatedly such individuals don the armour of religion, God’s silver sword in their (right) hand. It suggests the old adage that most people who stand on (their own perceived) religious piety are insecure hypocrites. No wonder such porous individuals are attracted to cults who claim to deliver the truth, the whole truth… It’s not always the journey; sometimes the final destination matters.

The idea of a complex, polyvalent society and the concept of history terrifies some people; they thrive on simple dualism: Good versus evil. Love versus hate. Was it the Greek Buddhist missionaries? The magnificent spectacle of Aphrodite with lots of arms? The beauteous Quranic Yusuf? Or was it simply the idea – the reality – of Jewish Pakistani film stars that rankled?

Lamb pulaow, anyone?

————– THE TORTURE MEMO —————-

EXTRACTED FROM:http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/doj/bybee80102mem.pdf

“The definition that emphasizes that torture is not the MERE infliction of pain or suffering on another, but is instead a step well removed. The victim must experience INTENSE pain or suffering of the kind that is equivalent to the pain that would be associated with serious physical injury so severe that DEATH, organ failure or permanent damage resulting in a loss of SIGNIFICANT body function will likely result.”

“Torture is not merely cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, but aggravated and deliberate forms of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.”

Example:

“Israeli Supreme Court

Public Commitee Against Torture v Israel

1. Shaking

2. Shabach

3. Frog Crouch

4. Excessive tightening of hand-cuffs

5. Sleep deprivation”

.. not torture

How to avoid prosecution (my statement)

“The President, through a United States Attorney, need not, indeed may not, prosecute criminally a subordinate for asserting on his behalf a claim of executive privilege.”

The necessary defense can justify the intentional killing of one person to save two others.

Can I put this another way? (my words)

In the case of Iraq, the killing of 3000 Americans justifies the murder of 1 million Iraqis.

“al-Qaeda plans apparently include efforts to develop, and deploy chemical, biological and nuclear weapons of mass destruction.”

“Clearly any harm that might occur during an interrogation would pale to insignificance compared to the harm avoided by preventing such an attack. (hypothetical attack – my words)

(Signed,)

Jay S Bybee

Assistant Attorney General

Thanks George – what an inspiring lady Clare Short MP is. Long may she remain.

“Apparently, it is true, among some Christians. They believe that Jesus was fed a potion on the cross to simulate death, and was then revived by herbs while in the tomb. This has always struck me as a cheerful version of the crucifiction”

I’ve heard that story, as “some Muslims believe that …”. I don’t mind, either way, but I rather like the idea of thinking that he died at a ripe old age, instead. But what about the poor sod who got the trouble instead, though ? Collateral Damage, again.

But, this is a nice turn of conversation, I like this. So I’ll tell another story I heard, and can’t remember where from, which is, why Ethiopia is Christian (it’s a story that goes back further than the last few decades, then. Ho hum, these things happen).

Which is that when the Prophet (pbuh) was without honour in his own country, that was one of the places he travelled to. And they showed him a drink they had, where there’s this bush, and you gather the berries, and roast them, and grind them, and do things to the powder with nearly-boiling water. And he liked it, a lot, and passed the word of it on to his people. So, when they were doing better for themselves, he told them, Ethiopa’s all right, we owe them for that, you leave them alone. And they did.

“Reminds me of that great quote: “sometimes I thank God I’m an atheist”.”

Reminds me of another quote. Man called Grgory Bateson, a kind of all-purpose academic, I read a wonderful quote from him :- “My father was an atheist. Every morning after breakfast, he would read to his children from the bible, in order that they not grow up to be ignorant atheists”.

*grin*

Mark – it must be five years now, that people have been publishing about how they have the definitive date when some combination of The West was going to launch the invasion of Iran (and, currently, yes, it ought to be shocking to see someone called a Peace Envoy out selling it). I think there must be some kind of fairly serious faction-fight going on ?

Suhayl Saadi -

I just want to say thanks for all your comments, they are always fascinating, and I’m envious of your ability to always engage with people in a positive way.

I remember when I first read one of your comments, I checked out your website for Josephs Box. To be honest, my first impressions weren’t great. It seemed very Paulo Coelho to me (and I’m not a fan of Cali neo-hippy feel goodism). However, after reading more of your comments, I’m sure your book must be a lot more interesting. When I get back to my home country I will definitely order a copy (I already have a large bag full of books to take home).

I really enjoy your posts about history, they always tell me something I had no idea about. Can you recommend any good history books?

I hate Pakistani films because they are rubbish, not because the actors may or may not be Jewish, Muslim or Mormon. I don’t know the religions of any Pakistani actors, they are so crap I don’t have a desire to learn anything about them.

Indian films are also all rubbish, except maybe Lagan. But all Pakistani films are rubbish, no exceptions.

The same applies to Israel, people hate it because it is a genocidal colonialist country. And I am not just talking about the west bank, Gaza Jerusalem both east and west, the Golan, Sheba farms and other places that may be recognised as colonised. I am talking about the whole thing. It was made by kicking out or killing people in every inch of what is now Israel. Every village there has been built on an Arab village that was destroyed.

It would make no diffence what the religion of these colonialists is. What ever it is they are evil. They are as evil as Pakistani films are crap.

Suhayl

“Look for the good, you’ll find it. Wherever in the world you go, look for the bad, you’ll find it. ”

I had a friend who visited Venice. What did you think? I asked. It’s very smelly, he said. No, he hadn’t noticed anything else.

PS: Loved Joseph’s Box – bought a copy for my daughter who asked for it, having read a few chapters of mine. Definitely not Paul Coelho (*spit*).

a~

Jesus survived? So he didn’t die for our sins (whatever the hell that means) – he just a had a really bad weekend?

Suhayl

PPS: I have an oud!

PPS: ..and now that I think about it, I bought it from a shop in Glasgow, and that shop is no longer to be found. Should I expect strange things to happen?

Richard Robinson,

I do enjoy your dry sense of humour, you make my laugh (hung) in difficult times. I wonder if the berries from that bush might be given back to the Bush inspired war-mongers? Faction fight? maybe, remember Obama was awarded the Nobel Peace prize and people have to be persuaded that war is unavoidable (the global consciousness factor). Right now a process of prodding Iran is active on one front, revolt against theocracy on another and agent provocateurs on yet another in the form of Mossad and it’s art of deception (check here for a flavour of deception: http://tinyurl.com/mossad-deception ).

The Council of Experts are fully aware of propaganda in America to conjure hate for Iran as ‘mary’ astutely warns us. ‘MJ’ reminds us of ‘powerful allies’ but China I believe is impotent in a defence role, although powerful with her voice in the Security Council; Russia plays both sides and very annoying (according to British SIS) holds her cards very close, making analysis of her intentions virtually impossible. Russia is content to make money with arms deals to Iran and help with her civil nuclear program.

That is a snap-shot of the scenario, but the whole thing is extremely volatile with Israel loaded up and ready to roll.

What difference will this make? None whatsoever.

Iraq inquiry to recall Tony Blair over possible conflicting evidence

Former prime minister to be questioned in public and private over evidence he gave to panel on invasion’s legality

Richard Norton-Taylor and Patrick Wintour The Guardian, Monday 1 February

Tony Blair being questioned in public for the first time about his decision to take the UK to war against Iraq in London. Photograph: EPA

The Chilcot inquiry into the Iraq war is to summon Tony Blair back to give evidence and he will be asked to testify in both public and private, officials saidlast night.

The former prime minister, who gave nearly six hours of evidence on Friday, is expected to be asked about intelligence reports. His second public appearance could take place before the general election.

The panel are concerned in particular about his evidence relating to the legality of the invasion, the Guardian has learned. Blair’s evidence seemingly contradicted that given by Lord Goldsmith, the attorney general at the time, about the number of discussions the pair had about issues of law between 7 March and 17 March 2003, three days before the attack on Iraq.

Blair also told the inquiry that the question of whether military action would be lawful was “always a very, very difficult, balanced judgment”. Yet the panel has heard he told Lord Boyce, then chief of the defence staff, that it was his “unequivocal” view that an invasion would be lawful.

Blair told Goldsmith to pass on the message after Boyce demanded a yes or no answer to whether it would be legal. Boyce had been concerned about Goldsmith’s view that only “a reasonable case” could be made in favour of an invasion.

Jack Straw, foreign secretary at the time, will be questioned next week about his view on the lawfulness of an invasion.

Clare Short, then international development secretary, yesterday claimed Blair marginalised her and Gordon Brown in the runup to the war, a view she is expected to repeat when she gives evidence to the inquiry tomorrow. She will face questions about whether she instructed her officials not to co-operate with the occupation, and to detail the legal restraints on her staff due to the lack of clear UN endorsement for military action. Short will also be expected to explain why so few of her staff were apparently available or willing to help in the reconstruction of Basra.

She told the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show: “In most of the runup to the war Gordon and Tony were in one of their fallen-out phases and Gordon was marginalised, not included and not in the inner group.

“He was saying to me, ‘They think they’re going to have a quick and successful war and then they’ll be very powerful and they’ll have a reshuffle.’”

Short added: “He thought they wanted him out of the Treasury, because there was tension about how you spend the money of the government, and they were going to offer him the Foreign Office and he was saying, ‘I won’t accept it. I’ll go and join you on the backbenches’.”

She claimed that John Prescott, then deputy prime minister, reconciled Brown and Blair, leading Brown to back the war at the last moment on the basis that the French had vetoed a second UN resolution that would have endorsed the war.

Short, who resigned shortly after the war started, also condemned the key thesis put forward by Blair to the inquiry.

“His great big argument that, after 11 September and the attack on the twin towers, there was a danger that rogue states would give weapons of mass destructions to organisations like al-Qaida, and that’s the reason for going to Iraq ?” he never argued at the time.

“And it is ludicrous. There was no link of any kind … between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaida. So there was no such threat.”

TONY BLAIR ATTEMPTS RETRIBUTION

Plan to oust Saddam drawn up two years before the invasion.

Secret document signalled support for Iraqi dissidents and promised aid, oil and trade deals in return for regime change.

http://tinyurl.com/Blair-Iraq

Vronsky

Muslims do not believe he died to remove sins, and we don’t believe in an original sin that needs removing.

Each person is responsible for his or her own sins and no one elses.

THE ENEMY AT HOME

http://tinyurl.com/Enemy-at-Home

mary,

Thanks for your post and the information on Clare Short. Brown was marginalised and I have some faith in Gordon (as stated on this board, on his determination of the Iraq war. I believe his hands are/were tied)and look forward to his testimony.

It is also sweet to have a female perspective here and I treasure your thoughts mary.

Suhayl

I take it by polyvalent you mean polytheist. One of the more worshipped gods of Western society being Lying or being economical with the truth, but there are plenty of others to choose from.

Islam is in the middle of a Reformation, not unlike the destruction of the monasteries and papal power following my hero Martin Luther. All of the merits of the United Kingdom derive from that religious revival in my opinion.people read the Gospels in their own language and put its advice into action.

When Islam’s reformation, assisted by Saudi Arabia, brings the Muslims back to the Qur’an and Sunnah, polyvalency or as I call it polytheism, will be seen for what it is, an excuse for keeping the old injustices going. You correctly blame the US i.e. Zionism for blocking reform in Pakistan, but at the same time

your position against Islamic knowledge is like saying ‘ We’ll keep the monasteries but change them to protestantism.’ No, sack them, and start again. We need to establish Shari’ah against injustice, but the West is fighting desperately to prevent that from happening. Every trace of the India/Pakinstani concept that Islamic knowledge is a route to self-enrichment and power, in the Sufi ‘peer’ system, where individuals are credited with special supernatural powers on the Hindu/ Buddhist model, will be ransacked and destroyed.

I agree with Arsalan, if Bollywood and Urdu go as well, good riddance to the lot of them.

Ah yes, the 2001 anthrax attacks. As I recall the highest profile recipient was Tom Daschle, Leader of the House and responsible for determining whether the Patriot Act should be fast-tracked through Congress or undergo the usual process of debates and amendments etc. As it so happens, after the anthrax business, he chose the former.

Although I agree with your analysis MJ, it can also be said that the 400 million spent annually on undermining Iran, keeping tribal differences at boiling point and interfering in the elections has had an effect. It has galvanised modern Iran into re evaluting their system and how it is serving society.

It is to beseen, whether the paranoid actions of republican war mongers in the US has the desired effect.

Whatseems obvious to me is that we should advise people to stay away from voting for the two main parties, both to be relied upon to wagg that tail and commit this country to a major world conflict, the third and final great unpleasantness.

China will not be boxed in economically by its debtors, it will not support any Iran action, however much Israel likes to have a go before the ss300 are installed, as if that matters much.

I would not be surprised if China, the largest rare earth producer in the world, now stalls all its exports and hence, our own drive to more alternative energy generation. This would work well into the hand of the coal and Oil lobby, not far away from decision makers when schock and awe is near.

Vronsky,

An amazing lady, cheers for the introduction. I am exploring the connection between David Kelly and Bruce Ivins and I will report back here or in a relevant thread. Right now I am unable to retrieve her link to the National Academy of Engineering detailing the reverse engineering attempt to establish a match.

Thanks so much, Vronsky! It’s good to get feedback like that. I’m really, really pleased you enjoyed ‘Joseph’s Box’; it’s the sort of book, with its dense, multi-levelled, poetic prose, which one would need to become wholly immersed in, I think, to really ‘get’ it, so it’s super that you did! That’s also amazing, cosmic, even, about the ‘ud – truly I wish I could play an instrument. I’d keep a close eye on it if I were you, lest it begin subtly to mutate…

CheebaCow, thanks also. Yes. ‘Joseph’s Box’ is a brick of a book – not like Coelho though. The little White Cliffs is probably the most accessible of my books to date. Psychoraag is fast-paced and urban, lots of music. The Burning Mirror is an eclectic short story collection – many different styles. The Snake is a literary erotic fiction (under pseudonym, Melanie Desmoulins!). ‘Joseph’s Box’ is in Standard English, but is complex and dream-like. Not New-Agey, though, perish the thought! Much more visceral, historical and trippy. Fulfilling, though, if one has the stamina – good for a long-haul ‘plane journey, also goes well with Turkish coffee!

History books – depends what area of history one’s thinking – a good one might be the late Angus Calder’s book on the British Empire – I forget the title, but it’ll be on the web; it pre-dated Edward Said’s more famous works, and also Calder’s book, ‘The People’s War’. He’s a vastly under-sung historian; he felt for people as well as understanding the mechanics of events.

Anno: I didn’t mean polytheist actually, I just meant multiple modes of living and multiple modes of faith within a particular set of religious traditions, the acceptance that not everyone adheres to the exact same set of convictions about (a) particular religion(s) as oneself and the willingness to analyse the power dynamics thereof. You have a point about Sufi shrines, I’m not a great fan of them myself, but they are part of an intriguing tradition and seem to fulfill a need. As with most universalist faiths, Islamic life has always been complex, it was a religion which arose in the context of the metropolis and of mercantile exchange. This has been one of its great strengths: a simple message, but efflorescent manifestation. You may not agree, and that’s fine, but that’s the way I see it.

Arsalan: My irritation re. the ‘Pakistani’ thing was simply a reflection of my frustration at people who seem ?” at least in the highly artificial, often anonymous and hothouse atmosphere of a blog – unwilling even to learn new things and explore the possibility that their own personal experiences, while valid, may not necessarily represent the totality of reality. I used to have dismissive, pejorative views about a number of matters, but have learned, I hope, to listen to others’ experiences and knowledge and to try to explore these possibilities in order to apprehend a particular subject in a broader way. I’m always learning and so by definition remain deeply imperfect.

I liked Lagaan, too! It was a great film. At the risk of provoking ire, may I politely suggest that the film, ‘Ramchand Pakistani’, a film based on a true story, is worthy of appreciation. It may, I’m not sure, it might have been screened last year; be on at the Tongues of Fire film festival. There is a genre of films/ shorts/ documentaries being made in Pakistan, not by the sadly degraded and now almost defunct commercial sector but by independent film-makers, based largely in Karachi, which are much better – they screen at film festivals around the world, Sundance, Frankfurt, etc. It’s worth a look, if one wishes.

I know this little deviation, which I seem, inadvertently, to have sparked, has little to do with Tony Blair – but maybe in a deeper sense, it has everything to do with how one comes to view the world, and people as part of the world.

My criticism of Pakistan was actually meant in a tong in check way to elicit the very response you gave to on this reply to Anno and me.

Why?

Because you are guilty of doing exactly what you are accusing others of doing in regards to what is different. I am not just talking about this thread, I have seen it in your posts in many others but I didn’t bother replying.

I myself believe that there is nothing more intolerant then being intolerant of what one regards as intolerance.

Who do I accuse you of being bigoted too? Selafis, or Wahabis as you might want to call them.

They are a tiny minority in Pakistan, so make an easy target for the cowardly.

I don’t claim to be some type of liberal extremist who tolerates everyone and everything. But even though I am not a selafi myself I do recognise that their opinions are within the fold of Islam. So I would say there is nothing more intolerant then intolerance against them in the name of tolerance?

Might I be so bold as to say I sense the stench of hypocrisy?

I am also not a Sufi, but I Studied Islam in one of the world’s foremost and oldest Sufi Madrasas. I would probably guess that the majority of students there were main stream like me and not Sufi and there were many Selafis there.

That is the key issue. In Islam we do not have the blatant bigoted sectarianism that exists in western Christianity.

People study at a Madrasa because of its reputation, its teaching reputation. Not because of sectarian allegiances. People travelled from all over the world, Iran, China, Russia, Indonesia and Africa to study there because of the knowledge of the teachers. I can give you the name of the Madrasa, but I can’t be bothered. Because it is irrelevant they are all like that. You may be asked about your knowledge and previous courses you studied, to meet the entrance requirements, but you will not be asked if you follow their school of thought. And the same thing applies to Mosques. We go to a Mosque when it is time to pray. It doesn’t matter what the school of thought of the people who run it is, and mostly we ourselves don’t know. We just go inside, pray then leave.

I feel what you said in your attacks on selafis was a cut and paste from a neocon website.

Muslims do not really have such distinction. If you think we do please define Selafi and Sufi and tell me where one ends and the other starts? If selifi means as the neocons state attempting to follow the pure form of Islam which was followed by the Prophet pbh and his companions, then I am a Selafi. If that is the definition I would say I am more of a Selafi then the people who choose that as a title. If Sufism means spirituality as the sufis like to claim, then I am a Sufi, and I would say I am more a Sufi than many who label themselves with that title. I can’t see why someone can’t be both?

There is no contradiction between obedience to God and loving God. I would say both are interdependent. You can’t have one without the other. And they do not contradict.

I make a distinction between Sufism and heretical ignorant idiots using Sufism as an excuse. I have studied in a Sufi Madrasa, prayed in Sufi Mosques and have many Sufi relatives. But I have never seen any of those knowledgeable people visiting graves. The people who I see visiting graves are ignorant people who know nothing about Islam anyway, and practice very little of it.

Baroness Scotland is very busy.

- Withstanding the outcry about possible changes to the UK law vis-a-vis Universal Jurisdiction being demanded by the Zionist.

- Deciding on the holding of an inquest for Dr David Kelly

And now 35 days to reply to this request -http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/government-ordered-to-reveal-iraq-legal-advice-1885156.html

The Government’s most senior legal advisers broke the law by refusing to tell The Independent who was given crucial advice about the treatment of prisoners during the war in Iraq, the Freedom of Information watchdog has ruled.

Baroness Scotland and her predecessor Lord Goldsmith twice breached Labour’s flagship right-to-know legislation in refusing to say who was briefed on the application of the Human Rights Act in the run up to the war. Human rights lawyers now want the Chilcot inquiry to consider the effect of Lord Goldsmith’s advice after the start of conflict in 2003.

Baroness Scotland, the Government’s most senior legal adviser, has been ordered by the Information Commissioner to tell The Independent whether the Army, the Foreign Office and the Ministry of Defence were warned about human rights laws.

The question of what advice was given and to whom is deemed essential by human rights groups, who have argued that the advice may have helped create a culture of abuse in detention centres.

In 2007 the first British soldier convicted of a war crime was jailed for a year and dismissed from the Army after being convicted of mistreating Iraqi civilians, including the hotel worker Baha Mousa, who died of his injuries at the hands of British soldiers. Today the MoD is investigating 47 more allegations of torture and abuse in relation to operations in Iraq.

The Deputy Information Commissioner, Graham Smith, ruled that while the actual advice should not be disclosed, it was in the public interest for the Attorney General to confirm who received it. He also said that by taking nearly six months to respond to The Independent’s request, the Attorney General had breached the Information Act. Under the legislation she should have replied in 20 working days.

/continues

Will a childs sweet life be nipped in the bud

Before life has really begun

Without ever having dreams

Much less, having dreams fulfilled

Never to know tomorrow’s treasures?

Will they be able to see

Through fogbound nightmares

Beyond the haunting mist of terrors?

Do children feel the swirling hatred

Or numbly take it in?

How can children live in a place

Molten in humanity’s disgrace?

Here, where fear replaces love

The only thing showering down from above

Children feel not blessings

But tears in their eyes swelling

Born in a world of hating

Pain replacing tenderness

Memories made by shock and awe

Killing is the law.

http://tinyurl.com/Blair-Murderer

ah religion….now I may not be of a legal mind, but the evidence over the past couple of hundred years would seem to suggest that following religion aint a good thing, when you take the death toll into account…etc

me i’m happy getting by not wanting to kill others cause they aint in my gang, and like the majority of all gangs its one run by men.

time to spend a bit more time (gents) not being outclassed in the majority of fields by women and get on with having fun. Oh by the way I prey to the church of the old mighty Chicken Korma….it gives me all the I need. The rest…well I get that from family and friends..oh and that thing called common sense.

you all play nicely now

“There is no contradiction between obedience to God and loving God. I would say both are interdependent. You can’t have one without the other. And they do not contradict.”

I agree entirely.

There is nothing to stop people practising the way they wish to practice; I have never advocated this. My criticisms are about power and the manner in which too many of the people who claim to have a monopoly on thought and belief in Islam try to foist their views on other Muslims and issue edicts and restrictive condemnations. And the organisations which often they seem to represent appear to have the money and power to do it on a massive scale in some countries. Such people – or their ideologues – interpret the religion all they want to suit their ends and then they attempt to stop others from doing the same. Perhaps we are all hypocrites, to one extent or another, perhaps it is a part of the human condition.

The imperial powers – whether paleo- or neo-con – have been allies of the Saudi regime for many decades; does this not also suggest some degree of hypocrisy on both their parts? Paleo-neo-cons also put the ‘Islamist’ General Zia ul Haq into power and suuported him in Pakistan and all that flowed from that. Aggressively exporting their particular brand of the religion to other areas and attacking those who do not accede reminds one more of the tactics used by the right-wing Evangelicals in the USA. I think it needs to be critiqued and I don’t think one ought to be accused of being a neocon for doing that!

My argument here with you was really mainly about your expressed views on all-things-Pakistani – you must know that Pakistanis are the easiest of targets in the UK and that no matter how horrible your experiences might have been, other people have had other types of experiences. With respect, your comments last night didn’t seem particularly tongue-in-cheek to me and were unprovoked; I hadn’t attacked anything you’d said in the thread but was trying to illustrate some of the intriguing histories of the region and all I got in return from your good self was a reflexive tirade. I’m sorry if subsequently I seemed condescending.

“The people who I see visiting graves are ignorant people who know nothing about Islam anyway, and practice very little of it.”

I know what you mean. But it’s a lot more complex than that. There is also a social class/ poverty dynamic at work in relation to Sufi shrines. If literacy rates were higher and if poor people’s economic/ health circumstances were not so dire in those countries, it seems likely that such devotional worship would decline, at least in the form in which it exists today. There’s also the syncretism of traditions which actually is also instrumental in some of the central practices of the (and of all) religion. This does not lessen the power or validity of Muslim revelation, far from it; it actually strengthens it.

Anyway, maybe some day we could share a fish pie.

With respects and salaam.

I believe lake of religion is the real killer. Just look at the last 100 years. WW1, ww2, Stalin, Hitler, Moa, the British Empire. Soviet Union and America.

And then compare it to the few people who unite on the bases of religion to fight back?

Some people worship God, and it is this belief which limits their crimes.

Others believe in No God, and nothing limits their crimes, but the means they have to commit them.

arsalan: Hitler was actually a Christian. Don’t you recall the Nazi SS had emblems inscribed with “Gott Mit Uns” ?

Trying to suggest Stalin, Mao etc. did their deeds _in the name of atheism_ is utterly ludicrous, and rather disingenuous if you don’t mind my saying so.

You don’t think people’s crimes will be that bad if they happen to have an irrational belief in some sky-spook? Well that’s rather odd, because history is replete with examples of just such a thing. Unless you think the Crusades, the Inquisition, Columbus and his butchery, not to mention Bush & Blair didn’t do anything wrong, when they apparently truly believed they were acting on behalf of Gaad and God respectively.

And that’s just KKKristianity. If you don’t think Muslims have done anything wrong while under supposed spiritual guidance, or Hindus, Sikhs, and just about any religion you care to mention, I respectfully suggest you read up on some history.

Nobody has launched wars and massacres in the name of atheism. Plenty have done so to please the blood-lust of their preferred mythical sky-spook.

I know you didn’t attack anything I said. I attacked you because of what you said, not because of who you said it to.

You have actually strengthened my point with your last post. So I will repeat what I said.

Intolerance of intolerance is not tolerance. By attacking them, you have become them!

If your attack was solely on the Saudi Regime, I would not have a problem with it. But you attacked a community. The Selafis, which have become a very easy community to attack, you can say the neocons favorite target amongst the Muslims.

I thought it was blatantly clear that it was tong in Check by the very fact that I started by informing you that my wife was a Paki. Wouldn’t the fact that I choose a Paki out of all the women from all the different nationalities that proposed to me indicate that I don’t really hate Pakis and I was trying to make you think about something you said by what I say?

The selefis are a very small community in Pakistan. Neocons like to cause a confusion between Deobandis and Selefis for there own ends. But every Muslims knows those two communities are about as far away from each other as it is possible to get within Sunni Islam.

you already know what I think about the Issues of sectarianism and Nation states. I don’t believe in it. As you know I believe all Muslims should unite under one Khilafah. I already know that you disagree with it. And the absence is what I blame for the mess in Pakistan, not the presence of selifism, Sufism or any other difference.

glenn

What you said was irrelevant to the reply I gave. I was making the point that religion wasn’t the cause of those, the biggest wars of our time. Hitler may have been Christian, if so he was the same religion of the British and Americans he fought.

Atheism may or may not be the reason for the crimes of communists, but religion certainly wasn’t.

That was my point, it was a reply to someone who hinted that religion is the cause of all wars. The person didn’t leave a name, but you can scrole up and read the post.

Bollocks I have loads of work to do, And I have done nothing because I have been too busy talking to you lot.

Bye, I have a life. I haven’t got time for this stuff.

@mark

Meryl has a more recent post (25/1) on Amerithrax. She is quoting an article from the Wall Street Journal by Ed Epstein (who I have a bad feeling about, but check his website and decide for yourself).

“Livermore scientists had tried 56 times to replicate the high silicon content without any success. Even though they added increasingly high amounts of silicon to the media, they never even came close to the 1.4% in the attack anthrax. Most results were an order of magnitude lower, with some as low as .001%. [...] the FBI investigation is still open?”and, unless it can refute the Livermore findings on the silicon, it is back to square one.”

In this context ‘back to square one’ means Ivins didn’t do it.

tinyurl.com/epstein

@others

Religion? I’m with Gibbon:

“”The various modes of worship, which prevailed in the Roman world, were all considered by the people, as equally true; by the philosopher, as equally false; and by the magistrate, as equally useful.”

Hello again arsalan… atheism was not the reason for the crimes of communists, unless you know of some evidence to the contrary? What I object to is statements like this of yours:

—

“Some people worship God, and it is this belief which limits their crimes.

Others believe in No God, and nothing limits their crimes, but the means they have to commit them.”

—

Now tell me you aren’t suggesting that atheists have nothing to limit their crimes but lack of time and opportunity. Actually, there is a great deal limiting my own crimes – and that is my own personal sense of decency, morality and honesty. I don’t need the threat of some sky-spook to keep my nose clean. It amazes me that so many religious nutters apparently do.

There’s a sky-spook who, when not tending to every last atom in the universe, is fascinated by the thoughts and doings of every last being on Earth. He’s stopping the devoted from going too far, “limiting their crimes”, keeping people in check you reckon. Well He’s not doing a very good job. Just look at the state of the world for proof of that!

Your argument is turned completely on its head by a moment’s review of the hideous crimes committed in the name of religion.

*

Oh, you’ve taken your ball and gone home. You’ve got a life eh? It always gives me a chuckle when some poster criticises another for having the time to post – thanks!

*

Craig – perhaps you could make a thread concerning the validity of religions, give us your conclusion and then we could all weigh in on the subject. That should settle the matter for once and for all.

“It is also sweet to have a female perspective here ..”

–Mark Golding

I’m curious how many women you think are commenting here, Mark?

“perhaps you could make a thread concerning the validity of religions”

–glenn

Yikes, that’d be a hot and heavy thread. But this place is not a dinner party, and politics has been well-done, so why not do the other.

Suhayl

The least of my dislike of Sufism is grave worship. The pleasure of living in the West with its all freedom and complexity is horribly tarnished by the continuation of violent imperialism by our leaders.

Islam has a complex standard of morality which Sufism brushes under the carpet. Muslims in the West are either totally absorbed in worldly things and unwillingly to protest against the repetition in the 21st century of what their forbears endured from the UK or they genuinely do not recognise morality as an Islamic issue.

In my opinion this betrayal of the current victims of Zionist machination and Imperial vanity, is perceived by Muslims as a strength, a form of holy obstinacy. I from village I don’t know I just poor man. At what stage does moral responsibilty kick in – half a million, one million, three houses, one hundred houses? They might just be taken at their word, so that the unenlightened people of the West move on to find beauty and meaning in Kabala and the Obama New World Order.

I don’t want to live in a straightjacket society. You are an electrician and your knowledge does not exceed that. You must do this Islamic action and your knowledge does not exceed that. My fellow Muslims are all fully engaged with all the complex issues of life and they understand fully the complex rules of this society as well.

Blair playing dumb and Muslims playing dumb amounts to much the same thing in my book. Viz the quest for power. Forgive me if my analysis is faulty or my computer jammed from overload. I’m pissed off witheveryone playing politics while torture, illegal invasion, rape,pillage and the rest go on under our noses in a world which is now an open book. Playing dumb seems to me a strategy that serves the self. I didn’t think selfishness was the quality of the prophet,peace be upon him, or his followers, but it is certainly the quality which Islam in this country has chosen to project.

Glen I repeat look at the last hundred years, and count the deaths.

The Japanese didn’t do what they did in China because of Buddhism or Shintoism. They did it because they divorced their actions form their belief in a creator. And the same thing goes for what the Americans did in Japan. Secularism is the cause of all, or nearly all modern wars.

You state that your decency and morality prevent you from crimes. Atheist who don’t share your decency and morality have nothing to prevent them.

Your arguments about the crimes of secular leaders who may have a religion in their personal life but do not allow it to govern their judgment when ruling is irrelevant because such people do not let what God interfere with what they do. They are the willfully disobedient, people like Blair and Bush.

My argument applies when people believe in God and obey God. When people believe in God and disobey God, they behave no differently to Atheists.

And I can’t really say how you would behave if you had the means, the armies of Blair and Bush. Better then them? Worst then them? only you can tell?

I am really too busy for this. Maybe you can ask another one of the God believers to play with you.

If you want to know why Muslims believe in God, walk in to a Mosque and ask someone. I really can’t be bothered.

So go and cry to Mummy because the boy with the ball doesn’t want to play with you.

I was somewhat tongue in cheek, in suggesting a thread on religions would settle the matter… actually, a solid course in rationalism, logic and an understanding of the power of memes would go much further. Knowing a bit about science and comparative religions would help too. Here’s a starter, though, in case anyone hasn’t seen it yet. You can watch it free here:

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

Arsalan: what you present here (which is the thrust of you point) is a classic example of the No True Scotsman fallacy. Thus

—quote

“My argument applies when people believe in God and obey God. When people believe in God and disobey God, they behave no differently to Atheists.”

—end quote

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

In a nutshell, no religious person would behave badly. But what about Father Pete O’File? He’s been molesting choir-boys for years! Ah yes, the reply comes. But no _true_ religious person would do such a thing.

Now are you seriously telling me/us that you do not recognise your argument to be a perfect example of a well known logical fallacy?

I know why Muslims believe in God – same reason as any other religionist. Because they’ve been brought up to believe all that superstitious, primitive, fear-driven hogwash and can’t think for themselves.

“I am really too busy for this. Maybe you can ask another one of the God believers to play with you.”

I know the feeling. There’s all sorts of stuff here that I’d love to “play with”, but I’ve barely finished reading, let alone starting to write. I haven’t even got very far into that enquiry transcript yet (it’s not as bad as it looks. Lots of pages, sure, but not that many words on each).

The absolutism/tolerance thing, Mark on the risk of warmongering against Iran, the free-form nature of Islamic authority vs. Popes and the like … (is that a fair characterisation ? I don’t know enough.)

and especially anno’s comment on Luther &c – all the stuff around ideas like “Make the information available in an accessible language, teach people to read if necessary, and then they’ll be in a position to make up their own minds. *And* we are developing a belief system that says that this is A Good Thing”. Followed, of course, by a hundred-year war …

And more.

There’s a lot going on, and there are other bits of Life demanding attention too. And that’s without meaning anything against anybody who feels that this is the most important thing to do.

The existence of the 9/11 thread does seem to have made a huge difference to the subsequent ones.

Dreoilin,

I’ve no idea how many women are commenting here, I now know more than one

I do however like ‘hot and heavy’ threads

Father Pete O’File joined his Job because he wanted to molest little boys. He didn’t molest little boys because the bible told him to.

He decided the molest in spite of claiming a belief in God not because of. That is unless you can find a verse in his Holy book that orders him to have sex with Boys.

That may explain why those that are born in to it believe in it. But in this country that argument doesn’t run so well, because here a large minority within the Muslim community were not brought up as Muslims.

And even those that were, are force feed atheism just like everyone else in schools.

So I can say the something about you to you. You are an atheist because you were force feed atheism in school the way all children in this country are.

Are Larry and Angry still talking to each other on that thread?

Let me go and check?

Bloody hell, they are still at it. So it worked. We can now talk about what we want in every other thread.

That is except for fish. Craig deletes every post I do about Fish.

arsalan:

“I am really too busy for this. Maybe you can ask another one of the God believers to play with you.”

That’s fine, just stop insulting atheists by suggesting they’re responsible for

the world’s horrors because of their godlessness, and I’ll stop using

reason and logic to point out that old religious chestnut is utter rubbish.

Had you refrained from glorifying religions while telling porkies about

atheists, I wouldn’t even be writing now pointing out religion itself is a

load of primitive, superstitious rubbish.

Take your ball and remember – if you can’t keep up with the big boys, don’t

try playing with them if you’re going to get upset at the result.

Let me see if he still deletes them?

http://www.blog.thesietch.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/giant-fish.jpg

Chips anyone?

Glenn, Didn’t I stay here and allow you to play? Even though I had a lot of work to do I stayed on and played with you?

And glenn, I didn’t go home to cry to Mummy when religion was attacked. I stayed here with you, even though it meant I didn’t get any work done today. If you want to talk about the God debate, go to someone and do it face to face. It is past five now, so I need to go home.

You can see it as taking the ball away from you if you like. But some of us have lives to get on with. So whether I want to play or not, I can’t do so now.

Because this is is covered with white source.

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/03_02/WhaleSharkWENN_468x336.jpg

Fish doesn’t reheat well.

Arsalan: “So I can say the something about you to you. You are an atheist

because you were force feed atheism in school the way all children in

this country are.”

Actually, far from force-feeding atheism, my school was _heavily_ given to Baptist Christian indoctrination, so I know the Christian Bible far better than virtually all Catholics, and you’d probably have to be some sort of lay preacher to out-Bible me. I went to Sunday School too, and was a good little born-again Christian until I started to really think for myself.

But don’t let facts get in the way of your talking-points.

You claim atheism is ‘force-fed’ in schools “to all children” twice in one post – do you have any evidence for this?

Gosh, Arsalan, you’re a lucky guy, all those women proposing to you! What’s your secret? Your cooking? I do take your points seriously, though, thanks for making them to me and for putting them so well. Have a good evening.

Arsalan, the only thing you said which made any sense was ” If you want to talk about the God debate, go to someone and do it face to face”.

Why should I want to do that? Religious nuts get very angry when their sky-spook is doubted. Is a “face-to-face” meeting supposed to provide proof? Will they get their almighty God to perform a miracle or something? They’re more likely to take huge insult when their baseless assertions about spooks, haints, spirits, magical thinking, mumbo-jumbo and sky-beings are not swallowed wholesale.

Talking about miracles, I’m always impressed on how God/Alah can raise the dead, cure the sick and so on. But what’s he got against amputees? Why won’t he as much as grow back a little finger for one of his faithful?

Here’s another one. Was God having a laugh, or weren’t these “Real” religious people, you reckon? :

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20100125/157674817.html

Blair has told the Chilcot Inquiry that 9/11 is the key to everything in understanding why he invaded Iraq.

Reinvestigate 9/11 has made a submission to the inquiry that they examine this link.

Full details on the 9/11 thread – I admit I had a slight twinge mentioning it here, although the lateral link is valid.

January 30, 2010

Not a good sign…

http://tinyurl.com/yavtnd6

Was Blair getting us ready?.

Link not working above,full link…

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/31/world/middleeast/31missile.html?th&emc=th

This seems a completely appropriate use of Graffiti

David Cameron F-Off Back To Eton

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KnzwW5ZnU4

Not that I am particularly opposed in principle to Private Education

Its just that on the evidence available (and my brother-in-law teaches at a private school – and has told me in detail about it)

They produce a bunch of complete blithering idiots like David Cameron, who are completely out of touch with the real world and are afraid to experience it.

Whilst I am on the subject of complete blithering idiots I watched a fascinating documentry made by an Israeli on the subject of anti-fascism or something close (don’t mention the war)

God, did I feel sorry for the thousands of Israeli teenagers being programmed with such nonsense as to think the World hates them. The World just wants the Israeli Government to behave as if they are not blood thirsty racist psychopaths like our British and American Governments are.

Defamation is on Channel 4 and can be seen on their internet 4od thing

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/defamation

And Obama has actually announced something sensible today

Perhaps this global warming nonsense, is really about deploying the new generation of nuclear power in case the planet gets considerably colder as is entirely possible.

Tony

George,

Indeed not, with Chilcot hotting up again, some military circles in high command are getting itchy feet. The window is closing for a strike on Iranian nuclear assets and other support sites including military establishments. I urge vigilance on any reports on deployment and if anyone George you will pick this up.

Mark

Not looking good is it. I did pick this up…

01 Feb 2010

“Europe “lost” Lockerbie observer’s trial reports”…

http://tinyurl.com/y8apfvn

Tony – here’s a video about some really nice Israelis, very tolerant Zionist Americans visiting there, and their articulating their opinions on their neighbours, Obama and so on:

http://www.loonwatch.com/tag/max-blumenthal/

Oddly enough, youtube removed it, even though it houses far worse on other subjects.

Actually, here is the original (also taken down by youtube). Watch this first:

http://current.com/items/90321273_feeling-the-hate-in-jeresulem-by-max-blumenthal.htm

I am fairly convinced that Iran has never been a serious target, except from the extreme right wing neocons – like Cheney – and the extreme right wing of the Israeli Government.

Sure the extreme Right within Israel want to instigate the destruction of Israel, but they are completely off their heads.

Read Webster Tarpley – or watch his video on the subject that he made even before Obama was “selected”

There actually is a difference between Bush/Cheney and Obama

Don’t believe everything you read in the Jerusalem Post and the Sunday Times

Its just a distraction from the real objectives which are far more dangerous

Of course you will think Webster Tarpley is a nutter, if you believe the official government conspiracy story which defies the laws of physics

If you anchor yourself to the laws of physics, then what he writes and says makes sense even though the results will be insane.

Its a mad world

His video is really good

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MouUJNG8f2k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-KJCMWcoms

Tony

“You are an atheist because you were force feed atheism in school the way all children in this country are.”

When I was a schoolboy (in the UK in the ’60s), we were mostly wannabe atheists, as a result of being force-fed ‘religion’. There were legal obligations on schools to teach us ‘religion’ and hold some form of ‘worship’. The boys were mostly going “we don’t want to have to spend our time on this, we don’t care”, and the teachers “we know, but we can’t break the law”. (Both ‘religion’ and ‘worship’ were open to some very individual interpretations, depending the people involved).

Actually, I wouldn’t call myself an atheist, these days. I had to fill out a form a few months back that asked about my beliefs; I could be ‘atheist’, ‘agnostic’ or ‘religious’. I took great pleasure in describing myself as ‘religious’, the religion being ‘agnosticism’. My grounds for that were, that there’s no way I could prove that it’s right.

Must eat. Fishhhh …

“Blair has told the Chilcot Inquiry that 9/11 is the key to everything in understanding why he invaded Iraq.”

It explains one thing that I was noticing during the ’02/’3 run-up, which was that, regardless of the strength of the ‘intelligence’, nobody semed to be offering any reasons for the urgency, any tangible necessity why it had to be done _then_.

My contribution to ‘religion is just this tentative link from another thread that furthered my understanding of ‘Zionism’ after a conversation with ‘technicolour’ who laid out the ground-work for me.

The ‘Elephant in the Room’ is an interesting read and highlights can be read at http://tinyurl.com/Jews-against-zionism

Without the www this background information would be completely unchallenged through lack of understanding.

My great-grandfather Benjamin Waterman was a telegraphist before becoming a news reporter in London. He frequently complained in his reports of out of date information from foreign correspondents.

How times change!

My Wife and I were brought up as Catholics, which meant we had to eat fish on friday.

Whilst we had both decided it was a load of old bollocks, long before we met, when the kids grew up we decided that Friday was a special day.

Instead of a family meal where we would all eat the same, we would all independently decide what we wanted to eat, and cook it ourselves independently on Friday.

This I found quite liberating, because I do most of the cooking in our house, and I can cook the most bizarre things from all over the world on a Friday and don’t have to impose it on anyone else. Sure sometimes the kicthen is a smell exclusion zone until I have cooked it and eaten it, but I refuse to eat in the shed.

Our kids haven’t been programmed with any of this religious nonsense, yet seem far more sensible than their parents, and at least our daughter can cook.

We bought my brother-in-law a book when he finally left home at the age of nearly 40.

How to boil an egg.

Tony

We Eat Oyster Mushrooms everytime I go to the Chinese Shop to buy some. They are really meaty. Everyone should try some. Cook them in butter with a little bit of salt and pepper.

http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Obama_abandons_bid_to_return_Man_to_02012010.html

Gah, if only we had that lost magic of 1960s technology. We could crank those Apollos out every few months back then. With 2010 technology – nearly 1/2 century of development later! – think how much more efficiently, cheaply and quickly we could do it.

Surely the Stimulus Funding Programme could have spared a bit of cash for this. After all, they were a bit strapped for money in the 1960s too but still managed to get those old Apollos cranked out by the dozen.

I’d really been looking forward to seeing spanking brand new, hi-res live pictures of our brave boys dancing around on the moon too.

Bloody hell, Everyone here is really old?

I think I’m in the wrong forum?

Arsalan: I don’t like to think of myself as old, mate… I’m not even old enough to have watched that magic 1960s technology deployed!

“I think I’m in the wrong forum?”

Hey, you’re good to talk with. I think you’ve got your work cut out with that shark, though, shouldn’t you be off eating it ?

glenn,

I’d really been looking forward to seeing spanking..

so have I glenn!

Don’t start that, now, boys …

“I think I’m in the wrong forum?”

No, but I suspect I’m old enough to be your mother. Don’t leave, I find your comments interesting. Even if I am a god-forsaken atheist who murders and steals all around me.

Must watch…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aewzh_QxlI

dreoilin

You are female!!!

Surely age does not denote gender?

Suhayl Saadi

There is only one thing to remember, and that is to forget everything you have heard from feminists.

The type of men women like is not the type they would like to like.

They want the wrong man and to make him right.

To the best of my knowledge I had thought all the ones who proposed hated me, before they did so?

I think that may well have been the case. They did hate me, and they thought they could change me my marrying me?

When my wife complains about me, I tell her she knew I was like that before she married me, and she says that she thought she could change that after marriage.

I’m probably not the best person to ask about women, because quite a large percentage of those who proposed changed their minds soon after they found out more about me.

That’s why my Mum rushed the wedding when this one proposed. and told me to keep my mouth shut until after the marriage. I think I was married less then two weeks after she proposed?

Ed,

You said:-

” None of Blair’s dissembling should be surprising, and even skilled cross-examiners would have difficulty keeping pace with this torrent of bullshit. The best thing Chilcott can do is to keep Blair talking, then go over the transcript, possibly summon “rebuttal” witnesses, and then re-question Blair afterwards.

Rough the bastard up with some aggressive challenging of his credibility, wait for him to start changing his story, and then rip into his mendacity.”

Recall, that I gave a “tongue in cheek” award to Blair in 2003, for his mendacity.

I agree that a skillful lawyer, well practiced in the art of cross-examinaition, can use a calculated strategy to expose Blair.

A. B.A sensible time-line drawn, to equate information given related to time of first actual knowledge about an issue in question, and oblige acceptance of the fact and have it read into the record. He can be shown a printed time-line crossed referenced to some extent, to get an initial agreement that he accepts same as accurate ?” then work forward from that which he accepts to that which the cross-examiner seeks to prove.

B. Memoranda that deny his suggestion of lack of prior knowledge about the existence of WMDs in Iraq ?” must be put to him.

C. Put the case to Blair, forcefully, and each time after he circumnavigates with a lot of verbiage, then bring him back to the core question:-

” Mr. Blair, I am grateful, for the extensive explanation you have proffered, but before I deal will some inconsistencies and errors arising, I need to try once more to obtain a simple and direct answer. The question was:- ( restate…) – now having had the benefit of the elaboration and full explanation ?” and with the manifestly clear question before you, as put again – will you be kind enough to give this a direct and, if possible, short answer.

He must be pulled repeatedly to the undeniable facts, and this is a game of skillfully interfacing his answers, the facts and his exposable mendacity.

However, remember – I awarded him the 2003 prize for liar of the year (http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2010/01/iraq_inquiry_el.html ) go to second comment.

I see they’re going to bring him back for another try :-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/feb/01/chilcot-inquiry-recalls-tony-blair

I shouted to the drummer…

Hey Mate I Love Your T-Shirt

It was all black and white and perhaps subtley silver…

But I had no idea what they were going to play

And probably neither did they – until they got on stage together and talked to each other – and said – well what should we do…

And we had this bunch of musicians on the stage from every part of the world you can think of…

And my mate was getting really annoyed because he wanted to get on stage…

And he said they are spending absolutely ages tuning up

Why don’t they tune up before they get on stage?

I said – well they’ve probably never played together before

They are tuning up their instruments – whilst they are sussing each other out

And then these musicians from apparently almost every part of the world you can think of.

From NOTHING

Produce Complete and Utter Magic in 5 Minutes?

I Mean FFS

This is Not Supposed To Be Possible

But This Is in ENGLAND

Where Anything is Possible

Race and Religion is Not an Issue in

MUSIC

Do it Live

Tony

dreoilin

Even if I am a god-forsaken atheist who murders and steals all around me.

http://tinyurl.com/6r2see

dreoilin

You are female!!!

–arsalan

You’re surprised? I am indeed.

I’m all “commented out”, as the Yanks might say. I’ve been on here several times and written several comments, and my DSL would then kick out when I’d hit Post, and I’d get an error message.

We’re so spoiled. When one gets used to permanent-on, fairly-fast broadband, being without it seems like an abuse of our rights or something. And meanwhile I’m reading about 10 Americans trying to abduct 33 Haitian children … Someone said they were “worth” $15,000 each to them.

Mark,

I’m just going to your link, if this connection stay live.

It seems that there are those who think that Blair put in a praise worthy performance, and managed, if not to answer all his critics, at least redeem himself to the extent that nobody can accuse him of not doing what he sincerely thought was “the right thing”. The panel of course did their best to calm his initial nerves, and soon he was into in his defiant & arrogant stride. So much so that not only was he proud to boast that the attack on the Iraq was the correct thing to do, but that he would do it again even knowing all that is known now, and in fact he went even further in positively advocating a 2010 repeat act against Iran. He’s also could help bragging that it was himself, rather than Clinton, who was the driving force behind the equally immoral & illegal NATO attack on Yugoslavia, and additionally confirmed beyond all doubt the error of the common misconception, that far from being a “poodle”, or even a restraining force on the US iro Iraq, he was just as determined to topple Saddam as Bush was, regardless of pretext.

Far from exonerating himself, his slimy weasel worded disingenuous lawyers’ performance fooled only those unwilling to see the stark self confession of a modern day monster; the toxic end result of a nasty little racist & Islamophobe who managed to get his hands on the levers of power; and the combination of these traits with a psychopathically deluded sense of self-righteousness, an inability for human empathy, the demoniac ability to fake sincerity, with a talent of camouflaging lies with a barrage of misrepresentations, and there you have a person able to act on his lunatic belief that he has a messianic divine right to “do the right thing”, no matter the consequence, be it causing the deaths of countless people, and actually making the World a much more dangerous place for the next generations.

The Monster called Saddam a “monster” again, reminding us of the intense demonization that was a pre-war necessity, but the self-evident truth on display was that Anthony Charles Lynton Blair really has more in common with Adolf Hitler than Saddam Hussein ever had, even excluding the incomparable larger mountain of dead bodies.

I read an article in the Independent last Thursday about the UN report on UK complicition in rendition and torture.

Here is the online version (seems a little more toned down in wording, but mostly the same)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/furious-exchange-over-uk-complicity-in-rendition-1880861.html

I’ll throw the cat among the pigeons – oh, wait a minute, it’s a flying rodent:

http://flyingrodent.blogspot.com/2010/01/chilcott-case-for-war.html

- “the only service the inquiry can perform is to utterly expose the lunacy at the heart of our decision to join the Americans in their deranged Iraq enterprise, and to make sure the lesson is drummed into the public one more time, hard enough to prevent even partial repeats. Here’s a brief recap of exactly how we wound up taking part…

Let’s recall that the Americans invaded Iraq to fend off Iraqi aggression.

I’ll write that again, for clarity. The United States – the world’s only remaining superpower, with a defence budget of five hundred billion dollars per annum – invaded the castrated, two-soldiers-in-a-Fiat-Panda dictatorship of Iraq in self-defence.

Now, I can already hear the objections about Tony Blair’s humanitarian agenda, but none of that matters at all. Tony wasn’t in charge – the US was deploying the most terrifying military machine in history, and made it clear they could squash the Iraqi military like an asthmatic beetle without our help.

This was the Bush White House’s war, and they wouldn’t start babbling about painting schools and helping those poor women vote until the collapse of Iraq had turned the country into the Hammer House of Horror. Their justifications were the terrifying, anthrax-filled model planes that Saddam might use to genocide Dogdick, Alabama and those awful mushroom clouds that would be shaped like smoking guns, or whatever.

And the plan? The plan went like this – Invade Iraq = Freedom! ”

Who could argue with that?

Blair had a chance to redeem himself by renouncing his misjudgements and perhaps, in time, a generous nation would have been lenient.

Those that shouted, waved and cheered on a warm sunny morning in May 1997 now look with contempt and anger.

That will be his legacy.

There will be no act of contrition, no ear for confession, no act of atonement, only the pain, fear and trauma of those that fell will haunt his mind, surfacing as he struggles with the lies that lurk within in his conscience.

Here is a link to the UN’s report which the Foreign Office flatly denies and wishes buried.

http://www.humansecuritygateway.com/documents/HRC_AHRC1342_JointStudy_SecretDetentionInTheContextOfCounteringTerrorism.pdf

Iraq’s Ministry for Human Rights will file a lawsuit against Britain and the US over their use of depleted uranium bombs in Iraq, an Iraqi minister says.

http://tinyurl.com/DU-cancers

Posted on a Tory website half of which is controlled by a 70 year old Vicar, and the other half is controlled by another much younger Tory who I suspect also thinks Cameron is a Tosser.

Very Occasionaly when things get a bit heated between me and an extremely Right Wing American Who Has Got His Own Private Army and I am doing my best to wind him up something rotten with my working class Oldham accent…

He LOCKS The THREAD – Because It Is On FIRE

But the Tories Have Never Banned Me, And I Don’t Actually Think They Have Deleted Anything

Sure They Know I am a Nutter

But Even The Mad American Invited Me As a Guest To Speak at a University

I Seriously Fucked Him Off, When He Posted His Son Was Going Off To Afghanistan

He DEFINITELY Wanted To Kill Me, and Probably Still Does

He Has a Starring Role in The Film Avatar

You Should See It Just To See Him

He Played The Best Part

So I Said This on The Tory Website

Cos They Were Fucking Me Off a Bit

Bestbear,

I didn’t go to St Bedes Catholic College, because both my elder brothers went there.

And they told me about what was going on.

And so when I was doing my 11+

I finished after 30 minutes a- and left the rest of the paper blank

I reckon I had scored just enough not to pass

Such that I could go to a normal school with boys and girls

And not be controlled by Fascist Priests

I had two older Sisters Too

Who went to Notre Damn

And I escaped All This Religious Controlling sh*t

And So Have Our Children

Of Course We Gave Them The Opportunity To Take The Tests

When They were 11 Year Olds

But we also took them round all the schools near where we live – and let them make their own choice

They could come up with the result they wanted to

And both of them chose the schools they wanted to go to

And my daughter is at a top University and doing exactly what she wants to do

And my Son, is currently working out the details how he can take his business to the next level

And both our kids are Lovely People Who Can Mix At ANY Level.

When my Son was 18

A Spotty Teenager

He Was Welcoming Business People Who Had Flown Into London From Various Parts of The World

In a T-Shirt

And Showing Them What He Could Do

He Took His 15 Year Old Girlfriend Along in a Business Suit

So What Have You Private School Educated Tossers Been Doing in The Meantime?

Tony

“Iraq’s Ministry for Human Rights will file a lawsuit against Britain and the US over their use of depleted uranium bombs in Iraq, an Iraqi minister says.”

Good.

I remember Jon Pilger did a program on that, it was a problem even before the invasion. Horrible.

I sometimes think, no wonder there’s this paranoia about dirty-bombs, some people might well wish they could just scoop the muck up and return it to sender.

@Tony -

HUH?

He kind of made it obvious that all the fish that we caught and we put in the fishnet we would return to the river – includng the really BIG ONE I wanted to Eat For My Tea

So All the Fish Went Back In The River Ribble

I didn’t have this problem when I went fishing with My Mum when I was 7 Years Old.

at 5:00 am

I caught The Fish

I Reeled Him in

And I Knocked Him On The Head To Kill Him Quickly

And We Rowed Back

And All Our Family Ate Him For Breakfast

Some People Don’t Know

And Buy Their Fish in Tins

Tony

Barbara,

Now that is a name I have got Great Affection For

So, Convince Me You Really Are Living in a Time Zone Over 5 and a Half Hours To The East

Cos I Reckon You Live Round The Corner From Me

Tony

Though I’m opposed to capital punishment in principle, I find myself wondering whether in Blair’s case one could make an acception.

Ideally I’d like to have seen the great anti-war march in London, heading for Westminster, instead of dispersing peacefully, and occupying the main centres of government, including the Houses of Parliament; and setting up a people’s parliament to debate the coming war with Iraq.

Obviously this would have been insurection, but sometimes a little insurection is healthy in what’s become an ossified “democracy.” Blair would also have been grabbed after the mob had stormed through the gates of Downing Street.

I’d have liked to have seen him put on trial in the Great Hall in the Palace of Westminster, like Charles the First, and charged with High Treason as well. I’ve no doubt he would have been found guilty. The next bit is more difficult; should we have executed him in the same fashion as Charles the First? I think not, as this kind of martyrdom for his faith would suit him just fine.

If I’d been allowed to address the people I’d have urged them to attack and occupy the centres of government. I believe, on that day, all that was needed would have been a spark, a bit of leadership, and the whole house of cards might have been threatened.

Of course there might have been casualties, but it’s not as if the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq haven’t led to casualities, is it? So, on balance, maybe an open revolt would have been less of a burden than all these years of pointless war for an insane imperialist project.

Perhaps I should add a personal piece of information? A few months before the attack on Iraq, I received a large royalty check. I contacted a few people in politics and said that I was willing to hire a large hall in London, provide free food and drink, and announce that parliament had been unofficially recalled to discuss the coming attack on Iraq and all the “evidence” relating to Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction and the threat they posed to the UK and the world. It was frustrating that Parliament wasn’t discussing what the whole country was discussing. Where was the democracy? The stories coming out of Downing Street needed to be examined and the consequences thought about.

I received the cold shoulder, and the idea of such a Putney-style debate was regarded with something close to horror by the people I presented the idea to.

In my naivity I imagined that the MP’s would jump at the chance of debating an issue of such enormous importance and getting all the relevant information out in the open. I even suggested we could call expert witnesses to present information that countered Downing Streets propaganda. But no, nobody was interested, and I was left high and dry. There’s not much point setting up a “rival” parliament if the MP’s won’t turn up is there?

It was also hinted that such a radical proposal could, perhaps, in the current climate, have been a rather dangerous path to follow, and maybe I shouldn’t go public with my idea. So I didn’t, until now.

Wow!

Also, while I’md putting my neck on the block so to speak, I think it’s important to realize that the real, current, threat to our way of life doesn’t come from the pathetic pricks of the terrorists, but in reality comes from the exaggerated reaction of the state to terrorism. What’s left of classic, bourgeoise, liberal, democracy; is being slowly but surely dismantled before our eyes. A pefect example is the legal safeguard of habeus corpus. Now, the state, can seize, imprison for ever, and not only not bring the person to trial in a court of law, but it doesn’t even have to charge them with any specific crime! Not only that, the state can kill people in foreign countries at will based on hearsay. Then there’s the whole ghastly issue of torture taking place in secret prisons.

Clearly we are seeing our freedoms shredded and systematically abandoned all under the cover of the bogus war on terror, which is increasingly a war of terror, aimed not just against a handful of terrorists, but at the rest of us as well.

Writerman, “a dangerous path” in what way? I’m intrigued.

I only meant that people seemed nervous about the consequences of openly attempting to undermine the government by introducing too much “democractic excess” in the ritualized, controlled, chanelled, psuedo-democracy, that is the “Westminster model.”

My impression was that people were concerned about how far Blair was willing to go in order to get his way, and his war.

For example, parliament didn’t exactly spend much time debating Iraq, did it? I mean compared to fox hunting. They always seemed to in recess or there wasn’t enough room or time for a proper debate. The British way always seems to smother rather than strangle, doesn’t it?

Nobody said anything remotely threatening to me, only I got the distinct feeling that there was a lot of concern about what might happen next.

The main reason Blair had to spend so much time lying about the phantom of Iraq’a weapons of mass destruction was that otherwise he couldn’t have gotten the support of parliament for the war. But he knew he could always count on the Conservatives, no matter what. They didn’t need much pursueding. It was his own party he had to convince, browbeat, cheat, lie to.

Someone told me that they were sure Blair wouldn’t hesitate to split the Labour Party over the issue of Iraq, if he had to. Some even thought he wanted to do that, causing a re-alignment of British politics. Blair ruling perhaps as leader of a new Christian Democratic centre party, comprising the right of New Labour and the Conservatives. But all this is very speculative.

The point is, people thought Blair capable of almost anything. In a re-aligned Westminster, he could even have ruled as leader of a minority government. Another person said that in their opinion, Blair was more than ready to sacrifice New Labour to save himself.

I was very struck by edo’s quote from Salandria over on the thread-whose-name-we-must-not-utter, which might in part explain writerman’s fears. We, here on this blog, assume that Blair would be at pains to conceal his guilt. Perhaps he doesn’t give a damn, aware that we are few and impotent, and anyone who feels uppity should reflect upon the sad conclusion of a certain walk in the woods.

I suddenly realised who Blair reminds me of – it’s Mehitabel the cat:

my youth i shall never forget

but there s nothing i really regret

wotthehell wotthehell

there s a dance in the old dame yet

toujours gai toujours gai

the things that i had not ought to

i do because i ve gotto

wotthehell wotthehell

and i end with my favorite motto

toujours gai toujours gai

aaa~

tinyurl.com/mehitabel

Actually, I’m going for walk in the woods in few minutes. The snow is all around, deep, and crisp, and even.

It’s important to remember that Blair and the cabel around him, his loyal courtiers, reliant on his patronage, were only a tiny minority dragging the country to war, against the will of the vast majority of the people.

The establishment didn’t support the war en masse. There were deep splits, and virtually no one, in private, which I can attest to, believed that Iraq was really a threat, or that it had a vast arsenal of weapons of mass destruction at its disposal. Everyone knew that Iraq was on its knees and broken, after the wars and the sanctions.

The problem was how to stop Blair? With the Sun behind him and the Conservatives, it was going to be very, very, difficult indeed.

In reality Britain is a country/state ruled by a handful of extremely powerful people, who are used to getting their way on most issues. Anyone who questions this “dictatorship”, or maybe I’d prefer to call it a “dictatorshop”, is filtered out of the political system.

The filter functions as both a net that can keep people out and lift people up. Blair is one of those people. That’s why “class” is so important in Britain. It both trains and teaches one about where power is, and what it is, and how one weilds it.

Chilcot is a prime example of this process in action. Blair is both a product and a useful tool of the class/power system, which is why he is so successful. The British always defer to power, and Blair at the inquiry still represents very powerful interests who one would be foolish to cross. Which is why he carefully inserted his “oath of loyalty” to both the United States and… Israel. In public life one crosses the interests of those two at one’s peril.

In parliament it was extraordinary how few people dared to stand up to Blair, even though anyone could see the absurdity of his sales-pitch about the threat from Iraq. It didn’t stand up to a moments scrutiny and was laughable. Yet, literally only a handful of MPs criticized Blair, why? Simply because criticizing Blair, would mean, in reality, that one was criticizing the United States and Israel at the same time, and that’s not the way to get ahead in politics in modern Britain.

So what one has is a degenerate system which is maskquerading as a democracy, which in fact is closer to an oligarchy, which in times of war becomes a dictatorship in all but name.

This makes me weep silently inside. Damn Bush’s and Blair’s evil eyes.

http://tiny.cc/W4tYS

The 2003 Peace March needed a follow-up plan. It should have been an ultimatum, not a protest. The message should have been “No war, or we will all be back!”

I found last Friday’s protest miserable and dispiriting. A few hundred people. Eddie says that people are bored with the issue. I disagree. I think they’re beaten, and have accepted subservience.

As to elections and voting, someone should draw up a list of all the MPs who voted against.

Actually, I don’t think the problem is confined to the corridors of power. I think that following rules has replaced good judgement at all levels throughout our society. I expect that everyone has encountered this. I had it on my way home on Friday. I’d accidentally thrown away the wrong half of my (ludicrously expensive) return ticket. So I went up to the ticket office, explained, showed them the “out” ticket, and drew a complete blank. The system software made it impossible for staff or supervisors to issue a ticket without full payment. So I got home by fare dodging; I’d only taken the bare minimum of cash as the protest had apparently been banned.

Nothing is anyone’s responsibility anymore. The people making the decisions are insulated from the people affected by those decisions by *Call centers, *Customer Services departments, *Software interfaces *Barriers, reinforced glass and security systems etc. The barriers around Parliament and Downing Street are more of the same, as are the robots and drones killing people in Afghanistan.

I think that anger is very general, but there’s no clear target. Blair is the target here, but we all know that the system failed, that the system, and lots of lesser systems, have been implemented from the top downwards, they lack transparency and accountability. Even your home PC and mobile phone obey the instructions of the manufacturer rather than the user.

Writerman,

you are quite right about overwhelming US / Israeli power, but again, this is top-down power, not popular power. I don’t know if a majority of US or Israeli citizens support war, probably it’s pretty evenly matched. But the system uses the few-percent mismatch to justify all-out conflict.

Yesterday’s InI newsletter alerted me to this:

http://www.uruknet.de/?p=62781

Can anyone follow the link on that page to the blog and translate and summarise, please? It looks similar to the case that Mary linked to.

Writerman has it on the button when saying

‘So what one has is a degenerate system which is maskquerading as a democracy, which in fact is closer to an oligarchy, which in times of war becomes a dictatorship in all but name.’

It will be up to us, from now on, to inform and cajoule and prosletise to voters that the only way of us NOT going to war with Iran, in the same illegal schock and awe fashion, will be by voting for thrid or fourth parties, as both major parties will inevitably be supporting US hegemony which is decisively negative to a sustainable life on earth.

Thats my conclusion anyway, please wake me up when I get too nauseating about it, but I feel we as voters can scramble their plans if we vote against their allegiances and plans, forever idealistic.

Will Billy Bragg be voting against noLabour plans and will he tell others

to do the same? can he go against his basic instincts and vote pro humanity?

I don’t believe there is much of a difference between Democracy and dictatorship.

They are just names, just words, useless slogans.

What matters is facts. And the Facts are the UK and America are war mongering states, more war mongering then any nation they label as a dictatorship and more warmongering than any nation they eccept in to their democratic club.

Ok I recognise three types of government.

The type that invades others.

The type that is/is going to be invaded by others. And the type that isn’t invaded or invades.

To the best of my knowledge, most of the nations who go about invading others call themselves Democracy.

If that is democracy, **** democracy.

Ingo,

this has to be approached constituency by constituency. Anti-war voters have to vote for whichever anti-war candidate stands the best chance of being elected. In certain constituencies, this will be the Labour candidate.

The third, fourth and lesser parties should really be thinking of standing aside and fielding just one candidate between them, to best oppose the supporters of war.

Arsalan,

this isn’t democracy. We need to win back democracy. Most ordinary voters do not want and did not want war.

**** democracy, **** freedom, **** America, **** Britain, **** patriotism, **** Israel, **** Zionism, **** it all.

**** all the slogans they use to justify killing babies. **** them and their mothers,

It is the right of everyone to defend themselves, so **** our tropes I side with the people whose lands were invaded.

**** each and every one of our boys who died for his country, and may each and everyone of them burn in hell for ever and ever.

Soldiers do not have to fight when they are ordered to, each has is able to desert, and each and everyone choose to join the army.

Arsalan,

if they can make us angry, they have passed our guard. They will have planted the seed of conflict and division in our hearts, and their machine needs to reap that harvest for its fuel. The ordinary people of the world want no conflict, just the chance to live our lives.

Sorry I had just finished reading this when I wrote that.

I need to remember that there will come a time when the other side are holding the guns.

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/such-a-nice-jewish-girl/

“Such a nice Jewish girl”

Female soldiers break their silence

01.29.2010 | YNet

Six years after first collection of Breaking the Silence testimonies, organization releases booklet of testimonies from female soldiers who served in territories. Stories include systematic humiliation of Palestinians, reckless and cruel violence, theft, killing of innocent people and cover-up. Here are only some of testimonies

Amir Shilo

Published: 01.29.10, 15:47 / Israel News

“A female combat soldier needs to prove more… a female soldier who beats up others is a serious fighter… when I arrived there was another female there with me, she was there before me… everyone spoke of how impressive she is because she humiliates Arabs without any problem. That was the indicator. You have to see her, the way she humiliates, the way she slaps them, wow, she really slapped that guy.”

The Breaking the Silence organization on Friday released a booklet of testimonies by female soldiers recounting various abuse cases involving Palestinians in the West Bank.

In recent years, females have been increasingly involved in combat and field operations in the IDF and Border Guard. Among other things, these female soldiers engage in daily contact with the Palestinian population ?” at roadblocks and in Palestinian communities.

According to the latest testimonies, many of these young women have trouble coping with the violent reality they are exposed to and find themselves facing situations that contradict their values. Some of them end up engaging in acts, or turning a blind eye to acts, that will burden them years later. Like their male counterparts, some of these females have a need to speak about what they saw.

“The girls have greater difficulties in telling the story, because they’re the minority to begin with” the organization’s director Dana Golan says.

‘Each soldier would give them a pet’

In the framework of the latest project, Breaking the Silence gathered the testimonies of more than 50 female soldiers who served in various posts in the territories. Ynet presents some of the highlights in this report.

Golan noted that female soldiers were not more sensitive to the Palestinians than their male comrades.

“We discovered that the girls try to be even more violent and brutal than the boys, just to become one of the guys,” she said.

Reporter took a picture, ‘special patrol’ sent to get them (Photo: Reuters)

A female Seam Line Border Guard spoke of the chase after illegal aliens: “In half an hour you can catch 30 people without any effort.” Then comes the question of what should be done with those who were caught ?” including women, children, and elderly. “They would have them stand, and there’s the well-known Border Guard song (in Arabic): ‘One hummus, one bean, I love the Border Guard’ ?” they would make them sing this. Sing, and jump. Just like they do with recruits… The same thing only much worse. And if one of them would laugh, or if they would decide someone was laughing, they would punch him. Why did you laugh? Smack… It could go on for hours, depending on how bored they are. A shift is eight hours long, the times must be passed somehow.”

Most of the female soldiers say that they sensed there was a problem during their service, but did nothing.

Another female soldier’s testimony, who served at the Erez checkpoint, indicates how violence was deeply rooted in the daily routine: “There was a procedure in which before you release a Palestinian back into the Strip ?” you take him inside the tent and beat him.”

That was a procedure?

“Yes, together with the commanders.”

How long did it last?

“Not very long; within 20 minutes they would be back in the base, but the soldiers would stop at the post to drink coffee and smoke cigarettes while the guys from the command post would beat them up.”

This happened with every illegal alien?

“There weren’t that many… it’s not something you do everyday, but sort of a procedure. I don’t know if they strictly enforced it each and every time… it took me a while to realize that if I release an illegal alien on my end, by the time he gets back to Gaza he will go through hell… two or three hours can pass by the time he gets into the Strip. In the case of the kid, it was a whole night. That’s insane, since it’s a ten minute walk. They would stop them on their way; each soldier would give them a ‘pet’, including the commanders.”

‘Child’s hand broken on the chair’

A female soldier in Sachlav Military Police unit, stationed in Hebron, recalled a Palestinian child that would systematically provoke the soldiers by hurling stones at them and other such actions. One time he even managed to scare a soldier who fell from his post and broke his leg.

Retaliation came soon after: “I don’t know who or how, but I know that two of our soldiers put him in a jeep, and that two weeks later the kid was walking around with casts on both arms and legs… they talked about it in the unit quite a lot ?” about how they sat him down and put his hand on the chair and simply broke it right there on the chair.”

Even small children did not escape arbitrary acts of violence, said a Border Guard female officer serving near the separation fence: “We caught a five-year-old… can’t remember what he did… we were taking him back to the territories or something, and the officers just picked him up, slapped him around and put him in the jeep. The kid was crying and the officer next to me said ‘don’t cry’ and started laughing at him. Finally the kid cracked a smile ?” and suddenly the officer gave him a punch in the stomach. Why? ‘Don’t laugh in my face’ he said.”

‘Palestinian beaten before being released to Strip’ (Photo: AFP)

Was there also abuse of women?

“Yes” the same soldier replied. “Slaps, that kind of thing. Mainly slaps.”

From men?

“Also. From whoever. It was mainly the female combat soldiers who beat people. There were two who really liked to beat people up. But also men, they had no problem slapping a woman around. If she screamed, they’d say, ‘Shut it,’ with another slap. A routine of violence. There were also those who didn’t take part, but everyone knew it happened.”

Sometimes an entire “production” was necessary to satisfy the violent urges. “There’s a sense of violence,” a border policewoman in the Jenin area said. “And yes, it’s boring, so we’d create some action. We’d get on the radio, and say they threw stones at us, then someone would be arrested, they’d start investigating him… There was a policewoman, she was bored, so okay, she said they threw stones at her. They asked her who threw them. ‘I don’t know, two in grey shirts, I didn’t manage to see them.’ They catch two guys with grey shirts… beat them. Is it them? ‘No, I don’t think so.’ Okay, a whole incident, people get beaten up. Nothing happened that day.”

An education noncommissioned officer from the Border Guard took her officers for a Sunday of culture ?” a show in Tel Aviv. When they got back to their base in the Gaza Strip, they were appalled by the dissonance ?” one moment they’re clapping in a theater, the next moment they’re acting like beasts.

“Crossing the checkpoint, it’s like another world… Palestinians walk with trolleys on the side of the road, with wagons, donkeys… so the Border Guards take a truck with the remains of food and start throwing it at them… cottage cheese, rotten vegetables… it was the most appalling thing I experienced in the territories.”

The soldier said she tried to protest, but was silenced by the commanding officers. When she tried to go around them to higher authorities, she found a solution. “Almost immediately I got into an officers’ course.”

‘You don’t know which side you’re on’

Some of the testimonies document incidents of vandalism of Palestinian property, and even theft. The same female soldier who recounted her time at the Erez checkpoint said, “Many times the soldiers would open the Palestinians’ food.”

And would they take it as well?

“Yes. They take things all the time at checkpoints in the territories. You’ll never see a soldier without musabaha (chickpea past similar to hummus). And that is something they give many times… They are so desperate to pass that they even sort of bribe the soldiers a little… ”

A female Border Guard officer spoke of how Palestinian children would arrive at checkpoints with bags of toys for sale ?” and how the Border Guard would deal with them: “‘Okay, throw the bag away. Oh, I need some batteries,’, and they would take, they would take whatever they wanted.”

What would they take?

“Toys, batteries, anything… cigarettes. I’m sure they took money as well, but I don’t remember that specifically.” She also spoke of one incident in which the looting was caught by a television camera, and the affair blew up. “Then, the company commander gathered us and reprimanded us: ‘How did you not think they might see you?’” No one was punished: “Really, it was an atmosphere in which we were allowed to hit and humiliate.”

Some of the gravest stories come from Hebron. A Sachlav female soldier spoke of one of the company’s hobbies: Toy guns. “Those plastic pellets really hurt… we had a bunch of those… you’re sitting on guard and ‘tak’ you fire at a kid, ‘tak’ ?” you fire at another kid.”

She recounted an incident in which a Palestinian reporter took a picture of one of the soldiers aiming a gun at a boy’s head. She said a “special patrol” went into Hebron, and came back with the pictures. The soldier said they either paid the reporter, or threatened her.

And the pictures were circulated in the company?

“No, they were destroyed the same day.”

What did the company commander say about it?

“He said it’s a good thing they didn’t reach the IDF Spokesperson’s Unit.”

Company commander reprimands, but no one punished (Photo: Reuters)

Some of the testimonies from Hebron deal with the difficult position the soldiers find themselves in, between Palestinians and settlers ?” who they say are even harder to handle. Some of the female soldiers were shocked with the level of violence the settlers’ children used against the Palestinians. “They would throw stones at them, the Jewish kids,” a Nahal female soldier said, “and the parents would say anything… you see this every day in Tel Rumeida.”

Doesn’t it seem strange to you that one child throws a stone at another child?

“Because the one child is Jewish and the other is Palestinians, it’s somehow okay… and it was obvious that there would be a mess afterwards. And you also don’t really know which side you are on… I have to make a switch in my head and keep hating the Arabs and justify the Jews.”

In her frustration, the same female soldier told of how she once spit on a Palestinian in the street: “I don’t think he even did anything. But again, it was cool and it was the only thing I could do to… you know, I couldn’t take brag that I caught a terrorists… But I could spit on them and degrade them and laugh at them.”

Another female Sachlav soldier told the story of the time an eight-year-old settler girl in Hebron decided to bash a stone into the head of a Palestinian adult crossing her passing by her in the street. “Boom! She jumped on him, and gave it to him right here in the head… then she started screaming ‘Yuck, yuck, his blood is on me’”.

The soldier said the Palestinian then turned in the girl’s direction ?” a move that was interpreted as a threat by one of the soldiers in the area, who added a punch of his own: “And I stood there horrified… an innocent little girl in her Shabbat dress… the Arab covered the wound with his hand and ran.” She recalled another incident with the same child: “I remember she had her brother in the stroller, a baby. She was giving him stones and telling him: ‘Throw them at the Arab’.”

9-year-old shot to death

Other testimonies raise concerns as to the procedures of opening fire in the territories, particularly crowd control weapons. A female Border Guard detailed to protocol she called “dismantling rubber” ?” the dismantling of rubber bullets from clusters of three to single bullets, and peeling the rubber off of them. She also said that, despite the clear orders to fire in the air or at the demonstrators’ feet, it was common procedure to fire at the abdomen.

A female Border Guard officer in Jenin spoke of an incident in which a nine-year-old Palestinian, who tried to climb the fence, failed, and fled ?” was shot to death: “They fired… when he was already in the territories and posed no danger. The hit was in the abdomen area, they claimed he was on a bicycle and so they were unable to hit him in the legs.”

But the soldier was most bewildered by what happened next between the four soldiers present: “They immediately got their stories straight… An investigation was carried out, at first they said it was an unjustified killing… In the end they claimed that he was checking out escape routes for terrorists or something… and they closed the case.”

A female intelligence soldier who served near Etzion recounted an incident in which snipers killed a boy suspected of throwing a Molotov cocktail. The soldiers coordinated their stories, and the female soldier was shocked, mainly by the happy atmosphere that surrounding the incident: “It was written in the situation evaluation after the incident that from now on there will be quiet… This is the best kind of deterrence.”

‘They don’t know how to accept the women’

The female soldiers repeatedly mention the particular difficulties they had as women, who had to prove that to were “fighters” in the midst of the goading male soldiers on the one hand, and the Palestinians, who have a hard time handling women in uniform on the other hand. The following story of a female Border Guard officer sums the matter up.

When the interviewer asked her if the Palestinians “suffer even more from the women in the Border Guard”, she said: “Yes. Yes. Because they don’t know how to accept the women. The moment a girl slaps a man, he is so humiliated, he is so humiliated he doesn’t know what to do with himself… I am a strong and well-built girl, and this is even harder for them to handle. So one of their ways of coping is to laugh. They really just started to laugh at me. The commander looks at me and tells me, ‘What? Are you going to let that slide? Look how he’s laughing at you’.

“And you, as someone who has to salvage your self-respect… I told them to sit down and I told him to come… I told him to come close, I really approached him, as if I was about to kiss him. I told him, ‘Come, come, what are you afraid of? Come to me!’ And I hit him in the balls. I told him, ‘Why aren’t you laughing?’ He was in shock, and then he realized that… not to laugh. It shouldn’t reach such a situation.”

You hit him with your knee?

“I hit him in the balls. I took my foot, with my military show, and hit him in the balls. I don’t know if you’ve ever been hit in the balls, but it looks like it hurts. He stopped laughing in my face because it hurt him. We then took him to a police station and I said to myself, ‘Wow, I’m really going to get in trouble now.’ He could complain about me and I could receive a complaint at the Military police’s criminal investigation division.

“He didn’t say a word. I was afraid and I said. I was afraid about myself, not about him. But he didn’t say a word. ‘What should I say, that a girl hit me?’ And he could have said, but thank God, three years later I didn’t get anything and no one knows about it.”

What did it feel like that moment?

“Power, strength that I should not have achieved this way. But I didn’t brag about it. That’s why I did it that way, one on one. I told them to sit on the side, I saw that he wasn’t looking. I said to myself that it doesn’t make sense that as a girl who gives above and beyond and is worth more than some boys ?” they should laugh at me like that because I am a girl. Because you think I can’t do it… ” What did it feel like that moment Today, when you look at it three years later, would you have done things differently?

“I would change the system. It’s seriously defective.”

What does that mean?

“The system is deeply flawed. The entire administration, the way things are run, it’s not right. I don’t know how I would… I don’t think I did the right thing in this incident but it was what I had to do. It’s inevitable under these circumstances.”

You’re saying the small soldiers on the ground are not the problem, but the whole situation surrounding them?

“Yes, this entire situation is problematic.”

The Israel Defense Forces Spokesperson’s Office said in response to the publication: “These are anonymous testimonies, without any mention of a time or a place, and their reliability cannot be examined in any way. The IDF is a controlled state organization, which learns and draws lessons, and cooperates with any serious body with the shared goal of exhausting any inquiry when such an examination is inquired.

“The forces in the Central Command are engaged in a daily battle against the terror organizations. The soldiers undergo a professional training which includes a special reference to the contact with the Palestinian population, mental preparation led by professionals, a routine training by their commanders and ongoing control.

“Another aspect in the supervision over the IDF’s activity is the investigative-legal aspect. The IDF includes a number of bodies whose job it is to probe incidents in which any activity against the orders is suspected. Appealing to these bodies is the right, but also the duty, of any soldier or commander, who feels that any activity is being done against orders. Female soldiers and commanders receive the same training given to the fighters.”

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And when that time comes remember what the Palestinians have gone through and what the Zionists have done before you make a judgment.

Arsalan,

I have tried to contact you through your forum, but I don’t know if it is working properly. The message I sent is still in my ‘Outbox’, not in my ‘Sentbox’. I tried to send it to ‘Unite’; that is you, isn’t it?

Arsalan, I hope that I will always strive for peace, no matter how bad things get, but we are all just human. I am sorry.

Clark I forgot the password to my forum.

Sorry

This is my email address, I am unlikely to forget its password;

arsalangoldberg@yahoo.com

Arsalan,

I’ve e-mailed you; thanks. I never display my e-mail address in public, as it can lead to spam.

What’s important now is to look to the future, as Blair is doing; and think about how one stops the west attacking Iran, using the weapons of mass destruction tale all over again. Would they really use it again? Probably, the ruling state has no honour.

We are ruled by the state. A form of state where capitalism, the corporate media, politics, the military; have merged into one another to form a new whole. It’s the state dreamed of fascist leaders. The corporate state. Parliament is a mere rubber stamp. A forum where the democratic ritual is played out for public consumption.

Sure we have democratic rights, but these are being systemativally curtailed. We have democractic rights, but not much power. Voting for parties that are santioned by the state isn’t really much of a choice is it? We can say what we like, but the state isn’t listening to what we say.

Blair seems to be positioning himself once more to act as a salesman for yet another war. But has he reached his sell-by date?

Whilst his reputation is in tatters, this is primarily in the UK. In the US he still has worth as a salesman of death and destruction. He’d make a “good” team with Obama.

Iran is now in the cross-hairs. Our goal is regime change. The problem is how to achieve it without setting the entire region on fire. But, given the potential rewards of destroying the Islamic Revoltion, it’s worth the risk. Our client state/dictatorships will take care of things at their end.

Writerman,

I pretty much agree, but I think Iran may be in the jaws of a vice rather than the crosshairs, ie pressure is being exerted, rather than the approach towards Iraq. According to my 2002 figures, Iran made 2.2% of world military expenditure. Any idea where Iraq stood? Much less than that, at a guess. Iran may be too powerful to attack outright. Now, Yemen, Somalia, Haiti, on the other hand…

But yes, we need to fight back against the corporatisataion of the UK.

The Birth of the Power State. Or The Power State Drops the Veil of Democracy.

How could one stop the UK taking part in an attack on Iraq? Well, if we lived in functioning democracy, there would be a chance, only we don’t. It will be a re-run of Iraq all over again, onlyt the script will have been brought up to date and the leading actors have been changed. Obama’s great value is that he was recognized as someone who could get away with it, whereas yet another Republican would have an uphill struggle selling a new war.

The central narrative is the same, only instead of non-existant weapons of mass destruction, we now have non-existant nuclear weapons.

At a minimum only something close to a general strike could stop a degenerate parliament taking Britain to war again, and how likely is that, a general strike? After all in our “democracy” the Trades Unions have been crushed as an effective counterweight, or political centre of power. Thatcher’s smashing of the National Union of Mineworker’s saw to that.

I think people underestimate the effects and consequences of the destruction of the Unions for democracy in Britain. After that all people really had as “power” was the vote, and that really isn’t enough in a “democracy” like ours to safeguard our fundamental rights.

Once New Labour became incorporated into the state apparatus, like the other two major parties, “demcracy” effective came to a halt in Britain, or changed into something else. Another type of state form. The Power State, or the corporate state.

writerman,

I love bravery – somehow we will win

Clark,

Chin up, we/us here are the revival

mary,

You have show us the way, we now need to convey your thoughts.

Tony,

..scratches head?

What would a USUKIS army Health and Safety Risk Assessment / Method Statement read like? Zone 0: no dangers permitted at any time. Zone 1: records to be maintained of all serious accidents. War zone: no standards apply.

At least if Tony Blair was incarcerated, he might have a chance to discover what that means.

I have received this, it is personal communication, I have stuck my neck out to show you all:

“Dear Mark Golding,

Many thanks for your comment in our website. We would be pleased if you we have more comments from you. I also visited your website. And the photos are very painful.

If it is possible, we would like our website is linked in your site and in turn we also link your website. Please let me know your view in this regard.

Regards

IRIB English Service

Mohammad B. Khoshnevisan”

DEATH SQUAD TO HIT AMERICAN CITIZEN

It this a sign of the times? Is this what awaits our children?

“Over the past several years, Awlaki has gone from propagandist to recruiter to operational player,” said a U.S. counter-terrorism official.

Awlaki’s status as a U.S. citizen requires special consideration, according to former officials familiar with the criteria for the CIA’s targeted killing program. But while Awlaki has not yet been placed on the CIA list, the officials said it is all but certain that he will be added because of the threat he poses.

“If an American is stupid enough to make cause with terrorists abroad, to frequent their camps and take part in their plans, he or she can’t expect their citizenship to work as a magic shield,” said another U.S. official. “If you join the enemy, you join your fate to his.”

The complications surrounding Awlaki’s case provide a rare window into the highly secretive process by which the CIA selects targets.

CIA spokesman Paul Gimigliano declined to comment, saying that it is “remarkably foolish in a war of this kind to discuss publicly procedures used to identify the enemy, an enemy who wears no uniform and relies heavily on stealth and deception.”

Other current and former U.S. officials agreed to discuss the outlines of the CIA’s target selection procedures on the condition of anonymity because of their sensitive nature. Some wanted to defend a program that critics have accused of causing unnecessary civilian casualties.

Decisions to add names to the CIA target list are “all reviewed carefully, not just by policy people but by attorneys,” said the second U.S. official. “Principles like necessity, proportionality, and the minimization of collateral damage — to persons and property — always apply.”

I have remembered the password to my forum now.

arsalan,

I forgot to bookmark – what is the forum URL again?

The link to Anwar al Awlaki

http://tinyurl.com/CIA-cross-hairs

unite.iwannaforum.com

Clark,’this has to be approached constituency by constituency. Anti-war voters have to vote for whichever anti-war candidate stands the best chance of being elected. In certain constituencies, this will be the Labour candidate.

The third, fourth and lesser parties should really be thinking of standing aside and fielding just one candidate between them, to best oppose the supporters of war.

If you can find a single Labour MP that agrees to defy a three line whip and vote against any future war conducted by his party, then you are right.

This is not the time to throw lesser parties into working together, they should have done this by now, but, we both know that politics are conducted in a bipartisan way, that the system doe not allow for a fair vote, so to demand union between lesser parties is quiet a hurdle to put into voters way.

Ideally I would like to see the Lib Dems and Greens presenting us with a real third choice, but because of the FPTP system, their past animosities at local level, some petty reasons really, both parties feel they cannot act up to their PR policies or show us what they mean by coalition building.

Still a vote for the Lib Dems, where they are the only real opposition to the Tories, should result in a lesser chance of us going to war with Iran.

Were there is no choice, because the ‘lesser parties, as you call them, cannot afford to field a candidate, we will be given the main parties a leg up.

As for todays Claire Short evidence, she has made it perfectly clear that the cabinet under Tony Blair was merely rubberstamping and nodding to his dictatorial agenda. She did well to question the legal advise sought from America, when the FCO is full of excellent lawyers, I’m also glad that some one is stressing to get Blair into the Hague.

China has shown great strength in resisting war and sanctions…

http://tinyurl.com/plastic-ducks

Please inwardly digest.

Anyone watch Clare Short slamming Blair, Goldsmith, et al? She doesn’t put a tooth in it. I feel much the same about her as I do about Galloway — whether or not one agrees with their views, I admire their guts in taking on the establishment in the straight-talking way that they do. She has bluntly accused Blair of being a liar.

“She has bluntly accused Blair of being a liar” (me)

among many other things she said this morning at Chilcot.

ingo

Sound advice, I understand now I only offered half a picture when I spoke of LibDems.

Dreoilin,

Good-afternoon

Strength of integrity of a good woman?

Short’s appearance at the Chilcot inquiry, gives us a flavour, a view behind the facade of cabinet government; and it’s not a pretty sight.

Blair treated the cabinet in much the same way he treated the inquiry when he appeared before it. He totally dominated it, and had close to contempt for anyone who dared to oppose him.

The problem with wanting to oppose Blair from inside the cabinet was that the Westminster system has developed mechanisms for denying access to top positions to the kind of person who would have the will, stength, and ability, to oppose a rogue Prime Minister determined to get his way on an issue like going to war, in the atmosphere of war-hysteria that ruled.

Parliament has become a mere rubber stamp, and is totally dominated by the executive, and in our day the PM in his role as de facto dictator.

Today we don’t really have a parliamentary system anymore, we don’t even have cabinet government. We have a system which has become closer to presidential, yet arguably the British PM has more real power than the US President domestically. Increasingly, over time, and especially over the last thirty years, the role of the PM has changed into that of a monarch.

“Blair Getting Away With Murder”

http://tinyurl.com/yfvlyzq

Ken Livingstone has just said, “Don’t judge a man by the affairs he had, Robin Cook had an affair and condemned the Iraq war, Tony Blair did not and murdered 600,000 Iraqis.

I’m not so sure, there is no evedence that he didn’t have an affair?

True, there is this in the ‘Rumormill’ remember; Scandal or heresay?

http://tinyurl.com/Blair-rumours

The bounty (one quarter of the total pot at the time of application) can be claimed by anyone who meets the following conditions:

1. He or she attempts a citizen’s arrest of the former British prime minister, Tony Blair.

2. The attempt is non-violent and causes no injury to Mr Blair or those around him.

3. The attempt is reported in at least one mainstream media outlet in a bulletin, programme or article (ie not just a comment thread). The judgement of what is mainstream is at the discretion of those running this site. The purpose of this condition is to ensure that the attempted arrest has political consequences. Links to the report(s) must be sent with the application for the award.

4. The claimant provides proof that he or she is the person mentioned in the report(s).

5. The claimant applies for the award within 28 days of the attempt.

6. If several people are involved in a single arrest attempt, one quarter of the total pot will be shared between them.

7. The bounty is not payable to friends, family or colleagues of the founder of this site.

The decision of those running this site is final.

Though this is not a condition, anyone attempting an arrest of Tony Blair is encouraged to work with existing campaigns for international justice (you will soon find some on the links page) to help the public understanding of why this course of action is necessary. If the government of your country has not incorporated the crime against peace (or crime of aggression) into domestic law, you are also encouraged to campaign for it to do so.

Your attempt to arrest Mr Blair takes place at your own risk. But please follow the guidelines on this site to minimise the danger to yourself or anyone else.

http://www.arrestblair.org/performing-a-citizens-arrest

WRITERMAN ?” Just commenting on your quote “Today we don’t really have a parliamentary system anymore, we don’t even have cabinet government. We have a system which has become closer to presidential” I don’t think our system is either Presidential or Parliamentary, but the worst of both worlds. It is certainly not Presidential since the Prime Minister is not elected by the Country and is not subjected to the checks and balances that an independent Congress adds in the US.

Prominent journalist ANDREW COYNE writing in Macleans under the headline “CANADIAN DEMOCRACY is BROKEN’ said this ” The impotence of ordinary MPs, the irrelevance of Parliament, the near dictatorial powers of the Prime Minister: if we were writing about a Third World country with a system like ours, we would be careful to refer to the “largely ceremonial” Parliament and “sham” elections. Only force of habit prevents us from applying the same terms here.” If anything, the Westminster Parliament is even more of a sham than the Canadian one, since Canada at least has a written constitution. The issue described in my own WIKI more than supports the view that democracy in those countries is a myth; since there can be no democracy unless there is also Rule of Law.

Incidentally based on comments, including those on Craig’s blog, I HAVE SUBSTANTIALLY REVISED MY WIKI ?” Click on my signature to look at it. Chapter 1 now covers the whole issue in more readable detail (some of the changes have actually appeared here first as comments). Chapter 2 shows precedent of where zerzetsen has happened to others (there are lots of cases), and explains why zerzetsen (or zersetzung) is defined as a serious human rights abuse, and legally constitutes torture. Chapter 4 has been revised to more substantially show proof of the cover-up conspiracy.

But Writerman, one thing is certain ?” the issues of DEFAMATION, THREATS, HARASSMENT by MI5/6 and cover-Up that are described on my WIKI could not happen in an honest parliamentary democracy.

writerman

I don’t believe that Blair was on his own during this period. There was an alternative cabinet supporting him to aggression against Iraq.

Even the admirable Mark Golding posted the other day that the UK military effort was securing Pakistan’s nuclear facility, which could have come straight out of Blair’s mouth if he wasn’t so busy sweeping his war-crimes under the carpet. The UK government is generally pretty keen on looking after the UK’s interests at all costs. A nasty breed, which will never command popular respect again however much Gordon Brown shuffles the cards.

The contempt that the ever excellent Clare Short described, was the contempt of British governance in general for democratic opinion. The official advisors and the elected government were sufficiently jingoistic to give Blair the benefit of the doubt even though they expressed their reservations. We are not talking about a rogue Prime Minister but a weak Prime Minister having his arm very severely twisted by a warped establishment including the Zionist bankers who call the shots in the economy.

The credit crisis shows us that not only are the bankers sacred idols, but, I believe, active gods issuing orders in the corridors of power.

I thought Nick Griffin was Blairs bit on the side?

Was there a rumour that he was about to get a divorce so he could go in to a civil partnership with Griffin, but then he saw the light and became Catholic so now he can’t get divorced any more.

I lost a lot of respect, to hear her say it would be wrong and she’d resign if it happened, and then hear her say she’d changed her mind & would stay on, when it did. It must have been a difficult decision, right enough, but I felt let down by it. (One could imagine a whole chain – Blair claiming to have hung on to the USA in hopes of making it a bit less bad, Short hanging on to Blair ditto …)

But she was sounding good, what I’ve heard today.

A civil partnership with Nick Griffin? Good idea.

February 1, 2010

“Afghan “Geological Reserves Worth a Trillion Dollars”…

http://tinyurl.com/yzk2fdc

Richard,

Don’t be too hard on her. As a shrewd female, I believe the question of wrath lay within. Scores had to be settled no matter how much water went under the bridge. She is still fighting, still hanging on in there, despite the premature death of Robin, a bitter blow for her. Robin (I am repeating) told me “I have to get out of politics Mark – MY WIFE HAS WARNED ME,I must.” He indeed was a frightened man!

“Iraq Inquiry told Goldsmith misled Cabinet”…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQXerabg9Gw

Shit. That is terrifying. But was it said to mean that she was warning him that he’d become ill or that their relationship would suffer if he kept on in politics, or that he was in imminent danger? How did he say it to you – what was he implying?

Zounds!

“Eurasia’s energy wars: the US, China and Muslims in Pipelineistan”…

http://tinyurl.com/ylk3var

“Russia’s imperial policies in the North Caucasus”…

http://tinyurl.com/yz9s5f5

Mark – “Don’t be too hard on her.”

Okay, but. She shouldn’t have said that and then not done it. That’s why we think politicians can’t be trusted.

“He indeed was a frightened man!”

Mark: I recall that you’ve said the same thing about Brown. Could you elaborate on this?

No. I said that about my friend (after one meeting lasting about 15 mins)Robin Cook.

He held my hand as if holding a babies hand; He looked down at our hands as if to check… he looked me straight in the eyes; I believe I saw fear in his eyes. It has haunted me. We were talking about Iraq, I remember pressing him to do something, I was urging him too strongly maybe and then I praised him, I congratulated him, I said, “I treasure this meeting, Robin” – our eyes never parted.

It was at that moment he said the words I have written here.

What was he implying? I am not certain.

Have attended meeting with Clare Short at IMF/World Bank AGM in Washington.

Very impressive lady with a passion for what she was at.

She put a lot of delegations to the pin of their collective collars.

She also took on Karimov in Tashkent in the full glare of world TV. Can you imagine Tony Blair making such a speech?

There can’t be many of her ilk left.

And that tells us a lot about the current state of governance in many of our so called democracies.

Good on ya girl.

BBC political commentator on the 10pm News. (From memory): “Of course, she wasn’t trusted by Blair at all at that stage. But that doesn’t mean that everything she said was of no interest.”

Grrrrr …

dreoilin – “Of course, she wasn’t impartial” is what I think I heard. (R4, 6.00pm and just now repeated at midnight).

“Here is what you need to think about her”, anyway. Not a thing I’ve heard them say about any of the others.

I must say, this is all bringing rather more out than I’d expected. Nothing I didn’t think I knew already, but then I was watching them. I wonder what effect it’s having on all those who weren’t ?

February 2, 2010

“Anthony Charles Lynton Blair, QC: Duplicitous Testimonies”…

http://tinyurl.com/yfzu3fv

I met Cook in Orkney a day or two before his death – he seemed calm, even bored. He was waiting while his wife browsed around a craft textile shop. “When will we see your boss in jail” I asked. “I think he has other ideas on that” was the reply. I never really trusted Cook after his bold pronouncements on foreign policy while in opposition, especially concerning East Timor – but once in power, he continued the sale of Hawk jets to Indonesia. I’ve since heard that he was overruled on this, but one nowadays has no idea what to believe.

I shared Richard’s disappointment with Clare Short back then – perhaps she was sidelined too as she says, but her past vacillations diminish the force of her testimony now. But still, like dreoilin, I was enraged by the BBC spin on her appearance. The BBC – tagline ‘Any resemblance to actual events is purely coincidental’.

Thanks for elaborating and sharing that, Mark. It was a very evocative and moving account. I didn’t know Robin Cook. My only close-up memory of him was in the Author’s ‘Yurt’ at the Edinburgh Book Festival – I think this was after he was no longer Foreign Secretary. He was the centre of attention, of course, as one would expect, but seemed surrounded by guys in identical, pin-striped suits, all of whom seemed to tower over him – I suppose he wasn’t very tall though. This had become a common fanfare for senior Labour politicians and indeed at many Labour-dominated events by then, an overwhelmingly distant, corporate image. It also may have been security, of course. It was a fleeting, superficial impression, that was all, and probably unrepresentative of the man. But perhaps as a vignette it is telling – and maybe also somewhat ominous.

Ya know it strike me funny on Gaza/Blair

He certainly has wreaked his magic in that part of the world.

US/Israel/Uk not recognizing HAMAS as legitimate government, to allow more time for the illegal settlements to continue…NICE

Im sure there are currently some ex terroists in the Irish gvnt as we speak, and I’m sure the current Iraqi/Afghanistan gvts are filled with people of a tainted background….

I guess its a case of who ya friends are really! nothing changes, different day same shitty people fucking it up for the rest of us (coincidently they all seem to be men)

Me I judge people into two camps…

Camp A) Those that worship at the altar of the good old curry…

Camp B) everyone else.

however if you find yourself in camp B i’ll still give you respect and support irrespective of colour, religion and earning potential.

PS Nice on Claire Short….they do say what goes around comes around…..just wondering if Brown is still running the Cabinet aka TOny Blair style.

Just interested on why no formal minutes of cabinet meetings were kept? thought it was a legall requirement of the government, like keeping all MP emails?

“Of course, she wasn’t impartial” (via Richard’s comment)

The person who should have been the most impartial in all this was Goldsmith. But he came across as weak, ill-informed, ineffectual, under Blair’s thumb, ready to produce ‘legal advice’ under pressure from his boss (with input from the USA) — advice which he now claims was given for the sake of soldiers and civil servants.

Aside from Blair, he comes out of this the worst, so far. Craig’s picture of him shows him as a fake, with his “thinker” pose in his fatly-stuffed armchair. I don’t know either man, but I suspect that Robin Cook’s intelligence would knock Goldsmith’s into a cocked hat.

Even if Clare Short did herself some damage in resigning late, she could never come across as shallow as Goldsmith. I think she speaks from the heart – at least, the bulk of the time. None of us is perfect.

“Im sure there are currently some ex terroists in the Irish gvnt as we speak”–anon

Sorry? Are you speaking of the South? The “Irish Government” refers to the Republic of Ireland. Nowhere else.

and Brian Cowen may come across as a bit of a shambles (as he did leaving Stormont with Brown, when his jacket was too small and his two buttons were bursting …) but he’s no terrorist. He just needs a stringent diet and/or a new suit.

Roderick,

I have re-visited your claims of harassment by our own secret services several times now. If you remember, I was concerned by your statements and asked you some questions.

My own belief is that it was not our people and I say that based on what I know of their recruitment process. I know what they do in some detail. They are sophisticated, intelligent and subtle. They rely somewhat on intercepts from GCHQ and they have a very sophisticated communications network.

Most of the time they are protecting us from nasties, even from our own allies. Take the case of Gary Mckinnon, he was tracked I belief from intercepts, he left a message on a US military computer, used a script (well known) to find default passwords and was accused of deleting files and thus causing damage.

Despite US demands, he is still in Britain awaiting appeal (Nov 2009). The front-end of SIS are gentlemen and women and all actions route that way first.

I therefore believe your ordeals were done by others, I hope I am right.

Just got home from Africa in case anyone missed me. Now I am going to sleep.

Posted by: Craig at January 31, 2010 2:59 PM

Hope Craig’s alright. He’s either having a long sleep, is very busy, is lost for words on the current state of our country or did he say he was going to Scotland?

“Elfyn Llwyd”…

http://tinyurl.com/ykhk7d3

George,

“Critics of the military action in Iraq have long suspected Mr Blair and President Bush came to an agreement at the president’s ranch in Crawford, Texas in April 2002, a claim Mr Blair denied in evidence to the Chilcot Inquiry last week.”

Good find George, Elfyn has seen hard evidence:

“When the document was leaked five years ago Mr Llwyd said the security services paid him a visit. He declined to comment when asked if he still had the document.”

Perhaps Elfyn will divulge to Chilcot what the ‘security services’ said to him, all that time ago.

Interestingly every time I make post, I have activity on Port 443, the secure connection route. Most of the time this is normal, for instance, if a secure server is visited, or a combination of secure/insecure traffic is active.

This connection is probably confirming my authenticity. Slightly strange though.

Mark, if you’re suggesting then that Robin Cook felt he had reason to fear, but that, in your view and from your knowledge, the UK secret state generally tends to be benificent towards the citizens of the UK, of whom do you imagine Mr Cook might have been afraid? I’m not asking this in a cynical manner, I’m just intrigued by the plexus which you have begun to outline.

I don’t think Clare Short should be criticized for not resigning earlier. I doubt very much that it would have made any difference to Tony Blair’s behaviour in practice. He still had the total support of the Tories, and that was his parliamentary safety net. The anti-war members of New Labour were never going to risk bringing down the government over Iraq.

What’s important now is that Short’s testimony gives us a glimpse of how Blair run the government. It was a totalitarian model. Simplicity itself. Back me, or sack me!

The problem with the Westminster system is that too much power is concentrated in the hands of the PM. When a determined, ruthless, and power-mad, individual occupies the position, challenging them for power is very, very, difficult indeed.

The system is bizarre and degenerate. One person, the PM, effectively has more power, than the rest of parliament put together, as Blair proved in relation to Iraq.

Parliament needs to reign in the power of the executive, but it seems disinterested, prefering rule by an elected “dictator” which makes everything so much simpler.

I hope Craig is well. Maybe seeing Clare Short condescendingly asked why ‘she didn’t speak out more’, like it would have made a differnce, was enough to give him a coronary. Citing Craig’s experiences might have been a good answer for Clare to give!

Suhayl,

Well it may look like I have double standards, I have not. What I am trying to say, in Rodericks case, the attempts to frighten him were crude, vulgar, witnessed and therefore accessible in a court of law. This is not the modus operandi of our own intelligence services. Cover is paramount in any operation. The public face of our SIS is protection of British citizens and others that fall within that same shelter. That is the front-end as I have described.

What I call the back or ‘dirty end’ is totally different, but I have to stress, I believe a ‘black mission’ is carefully evaluated and contained by the ‘PR’ if your like, department that exist as an interface between the two. That is the ‘plexus’ I was hoping to describe. I just hope that makes sense to Suhayl – that is what I believe.

Yes, that’s very lucidly described, thanks, Mark. My knowledge of this area is very limited, but common sense tells one that it must be extremely complex, as I sense you’re suggesting.

Who or what do you imagine Robin Cook might have been afraid of, though? Why would he be afraid? What might he have had to fear? The CIA? Mossad? Some plausibly-deniable systemically outsourced oufit? Some other ‘plexus’(my word-of-the-day!)?

The threats may have been enough to kill him?

You don’t need to kill someone to silence them. Threats and mud slinging can and do have the same effect. Enough of them can make you very ill and knock you out of politics even if you don’t want to leave. Not enough, and it can still reduce your effectiveness as you will have to spend time counteracting them.

Too much, and it can lead to heart attacks and death.

I don’t believe in Democracy anyway. I believe they are all just a bunch of patsies while the real decisions are made on the other side of the Atlantic.

Suhayl Saadi

All of the above.

As well as the press they control.

Vote For A Change – electoral reform progress:

http://www.voteforachange.co.uk/blog/entry/weve-made-it-to-parliament/

Or click on my name below. I’m getting off-line as my broadband is down and I’m on pay-as-you-go- dial-up.

Suhayl,

Let me add, what I have described I believe, is the difference between us and the American secret service. Their ‘dirty end’ is/was, I believe, completely autonomous. Again without hard evidence I think that has been addressed by President Obama in a brief to his replacement head of CIA.

I hope that is the case, after the warning (or bride) the Americans directed at us by threatening to withdraw intelligence sharing. I think we have relied on these briefs too much in the past and this has complicated our relationship, caused a lot of hand wringing and discomfort, from having our own arms twisted.

No, not Mossad, not some obscure Blackwater outfit, not the CIA, I believe it was Blair himself that frightened him, thinking hard about it, it was Blair – the bastard.

“I don’t think Clare Short should be criticized for not resigning earlier. I doubt very much that it would have made any difference to Tony Blair’s behaviour in practice”

I see it more as illustrating Blair’s behaviour in practice. She stands up and makes a noise, says she’ll resign, and then doesn’t, it’s a piece of opposition that didn’t happen, another voice that wasn’t there at the time for opposition to form around. And now she says Blair conned her. So, maybe it’s a worked example of how the trick was done ?

I didn’t mean to suggest I was dismissing what she says now on account of it.

@Mark

Why should Cook be afraid of Blair? Of course Blair could sack him, but he ultimately resigned anyway, so why the tears and fears? Or do you mean that he wasn’t frightened for himself?

Thanks, everyone.

Vronsky,

I think Blair warned him. Lets consider some facts:

Robin Cook had said:

“The truth is, there is no Islamic army or terrorist group called Al Qaida. And any informed intelligence officer knows this. But there is a propaganda campaign to make the public believe in the presence of an identified entity representing the ‘devil’ only in order to drive the TV watcher to accept a unified international leadership for a war against terrorism. The country behind this propaganda is the US. Cook has previously written:

Al-Qaida, literally “the database”, was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians. Cook is merely confirming what others have said. Former National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski told the Senate that the war on terror is “a mythical historical narrative”.

Cook resigned at the start of the conflict with public opinion and the bulk of the Labour Party on his side, in the wake of the largest backbench rebellion on record, and with Blair apparently on the ropes.

Cook also infuriated Benjamin Netanyahu’s Israeli government by visiting Bar Homa, a Jewish settlement being built on former Arab land in East Jerusalem in violation of the Oslo peace accord.

Blair and Alistair Campbell I believe tried to destroy him over his affair – and that is what it was – an affair.

Lastly this from his first wife:

“Finally, there was a letter of consolation from Tony Blair. I have it still. It says nothing consolatory about anything except being in the eye of the media storm; nothing about hopes for my future. No such empathy from New Labour.”

Thanks Suhayl. Appreciated.

Richard Robinson raises an interesting issue in “how the deal was done”.

The bigger question of course is how did Blair turn the Labour party into the warmongering right wing authoritarian thing it became under his leadership.

Of course he didn’t do it alone. He was ably assisted by much more manipulative and much greater intellects than his own.

They effected a coup d’etat within the Labour party. They made the right noises in the early stages in terms of Labour history and values whilst simultaneously destroying party democracy at grass roots level and replacing it with key figues who were associated with those values in the public imagination but least politically able to articulate and fight for those values within the party.

These became little more than iconic figures whose continued presence bluffed people that nothing was really changing.

It was never any more than the ruse for which media is now famous; Pretend arguments. Pretend people. Whilst all around the structures of any alternative possibility are being broken up.

Nearly Every Muslim knows exactly what Al-Qaida is. Nearly all of us have studied it from a very early age.

You can see Al Qaida for yourself and exactly what it is from the link bellow.

It does exist!

http://www.scribd.com/doc/966231/NooraniQuaidaa

Yes folks, it is a alphabet book, used to teach 2-5 year olds how to read the Arabic script.

Download it and print it from the link I have provided. Or buy it from any Islamic book shot, Madrasa or mosque for 50p.

All of them have it because Al Qaidia is everywhere.

I said 50p, but I have had stories of it selling for upwards of a pound. I didn’t have to pay anything for my son’s, because one of the other boys at the madrasa bought it for him as a gift.

Some say that it can sell for £3.50, but that is just a rumor.

Look this is the whole of Al Qaida on one page!!!!

http://www.equranschool.com/online-noorani-qaida-for-kids/

Now it is in colour, there was a time when it was in Black and white!

Proof that Al Qaida is adapting to new technology.

Maybe the coloured ones are £3.50 and the black and White ones 50p?

I call that racism!

There is a certain quaintness about monochrome. Even more so with sepiatone.

Perhaps one could source signed copies of the primer for a fiver on ebay…

I’ve heard that Margaret Cook, Robin Cook;s fist wife, was a very caring consultant haematologist. I haven’t read her book, but it sounded interesting.

My first wife who also happens to be my present wife and only wife is a very uncaring gynecologist.

Should I get hold of a haematologist for my second?

This is the man I want to be!

http://www.engagements.ca/images/polygamy.gif

Who remembers:

Katherine Gun

Someone else please follow this up, due to my connection problems!

Katharine Teresa Gun (born Katharine Teresa Harwood in 1974) is a former translator for Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ), a British intelligence agency. In 2003, she became publicly known for leaking top-secret information to the press concerning illegal activities by the United States of America in their push for the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

She states:

“I urge those in a position to do so to disclose information which relates to this planned aggression; legal advice, meetings between the White House and other intelligence agencies, assessments of Iran’s threat level (or better yet, evidence that assessments have been altered), troop deployments and army notifications. Don’t let ‘the intelligence and the facts be fixed around the policy’ this time.”

My contribution to the list of articles to read, “Global terror is one battle, one struggle” ,an interview which Tony Blair recently gave to Haaretz:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1141080.html

-

“It’s really important to understand that Saddam was actually a threat to the region,” he resolutely says in an interview with Haaretz, during his most recent visit to Israel as the Quartet’s special envoy. “And quite apart from anything else you may remember, he used to pay the families of [the Palestinian] suicide bombers.”

When asked whether the wave of global terror, with its roots in countries like Afghanistan, Somalia and Yemen, proves it was a mistake to focus on a single dictator, he replies: “Personally I think we will defeat this terrorism when we understand it is one battle, one struggle. This is a global movement with an ideology.”

The global war on terror is America and its British slaves fighting the whole world one nation after another for Israel.

I think the global war is one veil of lies under another.

The population was told that it was about wmds and terror, while the politicians were told it is about oil and the wealth they will gain at the wars end, while the real reason which few like to mention is it is all about Israel.

The war and the money they have spent reveals that oil is cheaper to buy than it is too steal. The Neocons conned the likes of Bush and Blair in to thinking that the war in Iraq will pay for it self with extra left over.

Israel’s main threat was Iraq, its next enemy is Iran. Iran doesn’t have to be invaded. If it is weakened with sanctions, destabalised with terrorism and suffers years of air strikes that is all of benefit to Israel. And if it is invaded and its rulers replaced by compliant puppets. America and Britain will move on to Israel’s next threat.

France new about these endless wars before they happened, remember why risk WW3 for “that shitty little country Israel”?

Clark,

I have connection problems – insertion loss is enormous – I have told ‘them’ to get better equipment. ;-(

But I meant to say before being rudely interrupted yes, brilliant Clark, Katharine Teresa Gun – another angle.

Katharine stated this, extremely relevant and those with a conscience at GCHG please take note:

She stated:

“I urge those in a position to do so to disclose information which relates to this planned aggression; legal advice, meetings between the White House and other intelligence agencies, assessments of Iran’s threat level (or better yet, evidence that assessments have been altered), troop deployments and army notifications. Don’t let ‘the intelligence and the facts be fixed around the policy’ this time.”

“”It’s really important to understand that Saddam was actually a threat to the region,” he resolutely says”

Of course. That’s why A Coalition united to stop him the moment he aggressed against his neighbours in ’81.

Oh. That’s odd. Well then it must be why everybody realised he had to be stopped when he started flinging his poison-gasses at them a handful of years later ?

Oh. But of course, we had a Tory government then, it must be why it was such an unforgettable plank of the NuLabor manifesto in ’97.

All together now, ’9/11 Changed Everything’.

Well then, that’s what led us to realise what a bad idea it is to go taking up with “they might be bastards but at least they’re our bastards”, and of course we couldn’t conceivably do that any more … that must be why this site doesn’t exist.

Excuse the sarcasm, if you will.

02 Feb 2010

“Secret CIA-Mossad meeting,preparation for new war?”…

http://en.apa.az/news.php?id=115159

Blair knows.

A poignant angle in all this is the role of leftist figures such as Noam Chomsky, who, while admirable in most other aspects, have been criticised for appearing consistently to deflect the focus of criticism/ blame from Israel and its infiltration into, of and instrumentalisation of, key legislative, executive and military aspects of the US state. This process appears to have intensified over the past couple of decades. Israel is generally pictured by these commentators as ‘an American colony’, but this is a distortion and simplification in several respects and elides a (the) crucial nexus. Mearsheimer and Walt were among the most prominent of the dissenters from the prevailing blinkered view and look at the impact on them. That Congresswoman, whatshername, who dissented: instant deselection. It is indeed an extremely dangerous situation, where important – and in terms of the world, critical – dynamics of the hyperpower have been subsumed into the irremediably partisan agenda of another state: the tail is most certainly wagging the dog.

It is as though the CentCom of Ancient Rome had been taken over by… Palestine.

Thanks George,

I’m going to investigate this; I have been prevented from posting.

Creepy.

I think Israel clearly isn’t an American colony, but America may have become an Israeli colony.

And no this isn’t going to be the usual anti-Semitic crap, because the largest vote bank that causes this are the evangelical Zionist christian movements.

These movements are really powerful in America.

Most people shy away from stating the obvious, especially white liberals because they fear accusations of racism and antisemitism. Even Jews fear these labels, with the added label of being labeled a self hating Jew.

In America there are two very powerful groups who put Israel’s needs above America’s, Israel’s interests above America’s. They do this with the excuse that the interests of the two states coincide.

These two groups are Zionist Jews, such as the Neocons, who have a lot of influence but very little numbers.

And the Red Necked evangelical Zionists who have little influence but great numbers.

Even though these two groups prefer to say the interests of America and Israel coincide, they will admit that Israel comes first.

The evangelicals believe Israel has to always come first because of theological reasons. They even state that the interest coincide on theological grounds instead of logical grounds by stating that “Who ever blesses Israel will be blessed, who ever curses Israel will be cursed”.

The Zionist Jewish group are mostly, even over overwhelmingly liberal and atheist. They support Israel for racist and nationalist reasons instead of religious reasons. They share nothing with the Christian group other then putting Israel first.

Other then the Neocons who are a small minority amongst them, they are overwhelmingly democrat while the Christian Zionists are republican.

But just as the Neocans have done, they are willing to put their liberalism aside if it gets in the way of putting Israel first.

Arsalan,

Mark Golding,

Thanks for following up on Katheraine Gun. I think they were going to prosecute her, but dropped the charges or something, probably to avoid publicity from a trial.

Mark Golding,

the only innocuous reason I can think of for the activity on your port 443 is that tony_opmoc’s post at January 30, 2010 5:24 PM included a link to a https site. This would only be relevant if your browser caches plain-text links, which is unlikely.

My broadband is OK now, there was a failure at the exchange.

Mark

http://tinyurl.com/yem5s29

Mohammed Atif Siddique was victim of a “miscarriage of justice”, says Appeal Court

The thing about him was he got 8 years, and served four.

That means he would have been out by now if he hadn’t appealed. But now that he has appealed and been proved innocent, he is still in prison for appealing.

TO MARK GOLDING RE– “It was not our people”. I’m afraid it is and the evidence is overwhelming.

Click on my wiki below. Look at Chapter 2 and you will see a list of where our people have practiced zerzetsen on others before me(I am not our people’s only victim), then go to Chapter 7 and you will see significant evidence of the involvement of MI5/6 and CSIS in the intimidation – and there is more.

Then go to Chapter 4 – the cover up conspiracy. You will see enormous evidence of cover-up. e.g Hazel Blears/Home office providing 4 different lies in writing as excuses not to investigate my complaints, and myself getting threatened for pushing the matter with Blears. Then there is the crooked judge lying to set me up for an MI5 smear, and a written police report that is fabricated from beginning to end and provably so. Not to mention all the buck passing. So if it is not our people who are doing it, then why are our people trying to cover it up so much.

And finally the original slandering after I left Grosvenor. I can tell you with certainty that at the behest of Grosvenor, MI6 ran a character assassination programme against another former executive a year before I left. I will call him Mr. X. I was told that Mr. X had been fired because he asked for a bribe. I asked his direct boss who headed Grosvenor’s Canadian Subsidiary if we were going to involve the police. He said no. So I said “if we don’t prosecute, how will the public know that this guy has committed a fraud – they might hire him thinking he was an honest man”. Mr. X’s boss (who is today a well known Vancouvewr lawyer) told me that the Chairman had connections with MI6 and that he was making arrangements to ensure that the facts got out without any possible come back on Grosvenor. So I know that they used MI6 before. Incidentally about 3 months after this I was told by another executive that Mr. X had never asked for a bribe at all, it was just a smear because a top executive didn’t like him (i.e. the guy who had the MI6 contact). He then mentioned the name of another executive who had had similar treatment before I joined the company. This story in more detail was provided by me to the police and grosvenor in 2004 since it is a precedent for my own slandering a year later.

Mark, I am quite prepared to accept that the majority of people within MI5/6 are decent and not involved, but they have a section that is involved in this sort of stuff. The evidence is overwhelming, and there is far more than I have put on the wiki. Of course they are going to deny it. My experience of MI5/6 has been one self serving lie afer another. Ask yourself – If MI5/6 are not involved, then why have they been covering it up so much???? Read the new wiki, then look at the correspondence attached, and see for yourself.

“Atif Siddique”…

http://tinyurl.com/yauluyk

Haematologists…? It’s in the blood.

Spot-on wrt the Israel Firsters.

Lobster is indeed a wonderful magazine – now on the web, of course.

http://www.lobster-magazine.co.uk/

Yep, once again, it all has to be about Roderick and his crazy thoughts.

Will someone else disabuse Roderick of the notion that the government is torturing him?

Heh Roderick – what’s your two best pieces of evidence for what you call “Zersetzen”?

Larry shouldn’t you be in the 911 thread agreeing Angry?

Roderick Russell,

I found what you said about the other executives interesting. Often smearing takes place when the smearer has something to fear from the smeared.

My research strongly suggests that the intelligence services are actively involved in all sorts of illegal financial activities and that there are vast networks of companies offshore and here where the money is laundered.

SMEAR AFTER SMEAR ?” ONCE AGAIN “LARRY THE LIAR” HELPS MI6 OUT

I answer Mark Golding’s very legitimate question re MI5/6 involvement in the zerzetsen, and immediately the MI*s have their subcontract “Larry the Liar” (see Craig’s earlier blog on “agent provocateurs”) jump in using the same old SMEAR to divert attention from what I replied to Mark.

If anybody wants to see why zerzetsen constitutes torture just click on my signature to see my WIKI and then click on Chapter 2 in the margin “Zerzetsen Torture ?” A serious Human Rights Abuse”. The first part of Chapter 2 lists other cases of zerzetsen by MI5/6. It lists a few instances of others who have suffered from zerzetsen by MI5 and you can check them out for legitimacy by going to the internet to see for yourself. It even names one of Larry’s US colleagues whom he may wish to tell us about – Tony Pellicano.

WIKI CHAPTER 2 ALSO OUTLINES WHY ZERZETSEN IS LEGALLY TORTUE ?” The 2nd part of Chapter 2 headed “why zerzetsen torture is a human rights abuse” is self explanatory. If you want to see evidence of the pattern of torture then simply look at Chapter 1 under the sub-heading “What Is it like to be a victim of zerzetsen”, and you will see a huge pattern of zerzetsen no touch torture enfold. Examples of actual instances of threats, etc. are outlined in Chapter 5 ?” description, dates, witnesses, etc.

I welcome critical review, but Larry’s comments are just insults without analysis. Larry the Liar’s objective is not debate, but SMEAR SMEAR SMEAR. I don’t think Larry is an intelligence agent ?” not MI6, not CIA ?” not good enough ?” more likely he is just one of those whose dream it was to be a CIA agent, and who gets a thrill just helping out for free, or as a subcontract for MI6 at a very low rate.

Why does MI6s Dirty Tricks section (I/OPS) have Larry keep repeating his accusations? It’s Hitler’s Technique and is described in Mein Kampf. MI6 know that if you repeat a lie often enough, some of what you say will stick. I think if Larry is going to continue in this vein then he should provide his contact details (as I have repeatedly requested of him, and as I do), or is he too much of a coward.

Heh Roderick – what’s your two best pieces of evidence for what you call “Zersetzen”?

Roderick,

Let me give you a lesson.

“Barack Obama stole my taco dinner.”

So now I’ve written that Barack Obama stole my taco dinner.

According to your standards of evidence, that is absolute impeachable evidence for the proposition for Barack Obama having stolen my taco dinner.

However, for someone like me, and the rest of my fellow rational thinkers, merely writing that does not remotely support the proposition.

I’ve looked through your pages. Other than people writing to you to tell you things along the lines of “Barack Obama did not in fact steal your taco dinner,” you have no evidence for your propositions.

It was nice while it lasted.

Ruth, What you say makes sense. I think that companies who utilize these offshore tax avoidance and financing vehicles can become too close to intelligence (who are utilizing similar vehicles for other purposes) and consequently it makes it easy for them to start a campaign of slander if they are of that bent ?” and some Grosvenor Vancouver staff clearly were. I don’t think intelligence operatives have much in the way of ethics — the very nature of the job (lies, deceit) says it all — and so it would not surprise me if some were in the money laundering business for themselves.

Roderick: You’re wise to ignore “wide-stance” Larry. I’d advise you to keep on doing so – at least until he’s explained why he hates America so much.

Of course it is a devious or dumb challenge -to demand two peices of evidence that could establish a campaign which is, ambiguous by design.

Even i can notice that.

“ZIONIST TROLLS WHO INFECT THE INTERNET”…

http://tinyurl.com/yd5r5qj

“New Israeli military unit to fight enemies on Facebook, Twitter”…

tinyurl.com/ydkvh7g

I’m Mary from Michigan. And Neil from Nassau. And Caroline from California. And I am inside you and I am legion.

Just thought you’d like to know.

PO Box: Perdition

“We’re not behind every post-box, but if they think we are, then we’ve won.”

This should bring the “hasbarats” out -

“Blair: Gaza’s great betrayer

It’s more than a year since Israel launched its immoral attack on Gaza and Palestinians are still living on the verge of a humanitarian disaster. So what has Tony Blair done to further peace in the region? Virtually nothing, argues the historian Avi Shlaim”

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/feb/03/gaza-tony-blair-betrayal

That was J. Edgar Hoover.

Here’s a much older one:

“If you’re searching for the wolf, do not be distracted by the spider.”

Antonio Rujari D’Ali, 1173 CE, Balharm

“This should bring the “hasbarats” out -”

http://tinyurl.com/yj7uqe8

Re: Katharine Gun, from Wikipedia:

The case came to court on 25 February 2004. Within half an hour, the case was dropped because the prosecution declined to offer evidence. The reasons for the prosecution dropping the case are unclear. The day before the trial, Gun’s defence team had asked the government for any records of advice about the legality of the war that it had received during the run-up to the war. A full trial might have exposed any such documents to public scrutiny as the defence were expected to argue that trying to stop an illegal act (that of an illegal war of aggression) trumped Gun’s obligations under the Official Secrets Act.

“The case came to court on 25 February 2004. Within half an hour, the case was dropped because the prosecution declined to offer evidence. The reasons for the prosecution dropping the case are unclear.”

NOT dropping the case BEFORE it came to trial would give Katharine Gun a record that would show up if a search were done on her years down the line by a future employer,etc, even after having been cleared, a record goes on file. They must have known they were going to drop the case BEFORE the trial…They should be made to explain. What a waste of public money.

Roderick Russell

Some of the intelligence operatives may be in it for themselves. But this is not what I’m getting at.

What my research has suggested is that there is a vast network of assets which the intelligence services has procured through illicit means and that these funds are utilised not by the government as we see it but by the ‘permanent government’, the Establishment, or deep government or whatever you call a government within a government.

Ruth: are they warm-blooded or cold-blooded?

Cold-blooded like you. Have you never been happy in your life, even as a child? If you haven’t, then you truly have my sympathy.

Ruth, I am not disagreeing with you at all. We all learnt from Iran Contra et al that the intelligence services do just what you have suggested — rather than finance controversial projects through legitimate government appropriations, they are known to do secret (and corrupt) dealings and put the profits into offshore slush funds. Once they have money in a slush fund they can do what they want from financing foreign mercenary operations (such as Nicaraguan contras), to bribing people of influence, to helping themselves personally. President Eisenhower warned about the dangers of the industrial military complex. My experience suggests that the real danger today is the growing convergence between the intelligence services and the establishment elites. When the establishment can override Rule of Law with impunity as they have in my case, we are moving well down a road that takes us away from democracy.

Jaded:

‘Cold-blooded like you. Have you never been happy in your life, even as a child? If you haven’t, then you truly have my sympathy.’

Yes, I did indeed know he would be too scared to answer that one…

Jaded: I thought he was still composing his answer to why he hated America so much

Maybe they didn’t let him out on day release this morning?

It has been reported by Reg McKay, who wrote a book on him, that Arthur Thomson (Senior), deceased, one of the organised crime bosses in Glasgow for many decades,was an informer for the SS (MI5). Largely, supposedly, this concerned matters pertaining to Unionist terrorist groups in Northern Ireland. But when one reads about how the various agencies operated in Northern Ireland… the relationship b/w organised crime and the intelligence services and other elites of many countries (and not just Russia!) are systemic and mutually instrumental. Read ‘Gomorrha’, Roberto Saviano’s book on the Camorra.

I think it’s instructive to look at the critical reaction to Clare Short’s appearance at the Chilcot inquiry in the UK media.

Her was a woman who dared, for a few hours, to lift the bourgeois, liberal, “democratic”, veil aside, and reveal something of how government and power work inside “steel circle” of the political system.

And she was basically smeared for it. A great deal of attention was given to irrelevant details, but the damning substance of her revaltions were pushed aside, primarily because she broke the rules of the concensus about how government works and how decisions are arrived at.

Her version of events calls into question the very nature of our “democracy” and that is deemed unforgivable, and means that one is effectively cast out of the castle of power to live among the powerless peasantry. One is allowed to speak, but no one is really listening anymore.

The only thing that matters to “ruling class”, isn’t what we say, or think, or write; what matters is what we Do, or if you like, how we act, concrete action. The rest is “insteresting” but is only as long as it doesn’t lead to action.

Short shows the limits of what is acceptable inside the boundaries of our version of “democracy”, and that’s not much.

How do we stop the coming attack on Iran? The short answer is, we can’t stop it. That decision has already been taken. The only question is when exactly, and how? The cover-story about non-existant weapons of mass destruction has already been rolled-out and is in place.

About the only thing that could stop it would be something that resembles a General Strike, stopping the Power State’s war-machine, by switching society off at it’s source. That is really all the power ordinary people, the demos, have; and that’s why they are never allowed to use it, or even think about it.

How likely is a “General Strike”? Not very in the current climate, is it? The Power State only respects and notices power. The Power State hates democracy, the power of the people, because democracy threatens elite rule; that’s why democracy is being systematically undermined, as the interests of the “ruling class” and the people diverge radically, in a the coming, post-consumer society, in the age of less, not more.

And after Iran, who is next? My bet is on Venezuela.

“And after Iran, who is next? My bet is on Venezuela.”

Any country that has oil or something the US/UK want…

http://tinyurl.com/ygm3z3a

Writerman:

“The only thing that matters to “ruling class”, isn’t what we say, or think, or write; what matters is what we Do, or if you like, how we act, concrete action. The rest is “insteresting” but is only as long as it doesn’t lead to action…

The Power State only respects and notices power”.

I agree.

What about the “Green Movement” and the many people that are repelled by politics? What of the “Transition Towns”? Many people regard the collapse of consumer society as inevitable, and are trying to build an alternative now. If this movement were large enough, it would have the same effect as a general strike, but it doesn’t seem to be growing fast enough to prevent more war.

It seems to me that at least two approaches are needed simultaneously. The Transition Towns, Permaculture, etc; these are the long-term solution. But something needs to be done about the immediate crisis. The “Power State” is pushing towards war, driven by their fear of diminishing resources. But that war will DESTROY much needed resources in huge quantity.

Three US soldiers killed in Pakistan, 2 more wounded, and according to Juan Cole at least 200 of them on the ground in there.

According to Jeremy Scahill (was it?) Blackwater/Xe is already “guarding” Pakistan’s nuclear facilities. The Pakistani people are furious at US inroads into their country and this discovery of troops on the ground will infuriate them further.

Juan Cole:

“Opinion polls show that many observers in Pakistan already feel that the US is humiliating their country and sowing discord there, and this revelation of the presence of US troops on the ground, along with the Department of Defense role in building girls’ schools, will further raise hackles (and risks making girls’ schools unpopular even among non-Taliban).”

I would see Venezuela as a long way off. But there are others here who will have other takes on things. (And I’d love to hear from Craig, whenever he wakes up.)

I remembered last night Tony Blair’s aborted attempt to become President of the EU Council. And I’m SOOOOO glad that I engaged with all the campaigns to stop him. Rest assured that if he’d gone in there it would not be the quiet “administrative” role that it is now.

The Nazification of the Knesset.

“Arab politicians are particularly concerned about a bill introduced last month requiring all parliamentary candidates to swear loyalty to Israel as a Jewish state. If passed, the seats of the 10 Arab MPs belonging to non-Zionist parties in the 120-member parliament, or Knesset, would be under threat.”

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=17355

(Thanks for link, George.)

——————————————

@dreoilin: “I would see Venezuela as a long way off.”

See George’s link to Eva Golinger’s Postcards from the Revolution:

http://tinyurl.com/ygm3z3a

“What this intelligence report really means is that operations against the Chavez government will substantially increase this year. The report will be used to justify a larger budget allocation to intelligence missions against Venezuela.”

So Hilary Clinton opens her mouth again

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8497363.stm

Maybe, and only a clue here, just maybe they should be gettin their own house in order before they talk about ‘humanitarian issues’. Bagram and Guatanomo…..and just how many senior American people should be in front of the UN for breaching Geneva convention on tourture?

Hi Dreoilin,

Craig is addressing the Scottish Independence Convention today:

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2010/01/address_to_scot.html

Scottish Independence is just a big lie. Rule from Brussels instead of London. Great.

I honestly don’t mean to sound overly pessimistic, or fatalistic… But, I do think we are rapidly leaving one type of society and entering another.

This is mainly because “capitalism” as we’ve known it, is “breaking down.”

Why? The fundamental problem, simply put, is that the dogma, the ideology, the quasi-religious faith, in infinite, unlimited, economic growth; is increasingly banging up against the harsh reality of an environment/planet with limited/finite resources.

One hears a lot about “realism” in politics and economics. Well, realistically, “capitalism” as we’ve known it, doesn’t have a future. What’s unrealistic is to imagine that it can continue in it’s present, gross, form.

However, our “ruling class” is determined to push this redundent economic model forward for as long as possible, no matter what.

An example is that “everything” that happens in international politics, these ghastly wars… underneath, in some shape and form, one finds… oil and gas. Follow the oil.

Oil is vital to the well-being of the Power State. Take it away, curtail it, and the rules of the game change.

For now, the Chinese are simply buying access to what they need, for now. Whilst the Americans are using their vast and bloated military to secure access to and control over oil.

For example, recently it was revealed that there are potentially vast oil reserves in the sea between… Haiti and Cuba. This information, published by the US Geological Survey, puts the situation of Haiti in different perspective. Like why are the Haitians so poor? Because, if they weren’t they might start using and developing their resources for primarily their own benefit.

Supposedly the oil reserves around Haiti have been “known about” for decades, but they were regarded as a form of strategic reserve which we wouldn’t access until we really needed it. Such it the way rich countries treat the poor. Their lives are unimportant. Their resources are.

And finally, sorry! I read a report from Pakistan, which we are already involved in, which complained that over the first month of 2010 over 123 innocent civilians were killed in Pakistan by American drone attacks. These are attacks ordered by the sainted Obama; the prophet of change and hope! 3 high-value terrorist targets were blown to pieces in these attacks.

Yet where are the condemations of these American terrorist outrages in our supposedly free, liberal, democratic, media? Nowhere, is where.

Suhayl,

Wise words, interesting ‘Larry’ appeared – when Roderock posted; y’know he never did answer my questions – in fact, when I asked, he disappeared for a while. I asked:

Are you being paid to post here, Larry?

Do you specialize in Ch 11 bankruptcy?

..

I am now certain that either NSA or GCHQ monitor our web traffic, although I am fairly convinced as an engineer that it is the British side doing the monitoring – which degrades the connection. It does annoy me however that UK traffic has to be routed through US servers – WHY?!

I’m no alarmist, but monitoring does produce a ‘sloooow’ rendering of the page.

Mark : This sort of thing is one reason why traffic gets helpfully re-routed through the US periodically:

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/12/mediterranean-c/

Writerman,

Drones – exactly, from the ‘Area 51′ playing fields. They are even networking them now into coordinated, space concious swarms of hornets (secret project – no link) each with it’s own passive missile and active defence systems.

I have written in WaPo many times condemning these 21st century beasts that seem to trash all the hard earned rules of sovereignty.

In ten years time we will have these fucking spies flying over our cities if the British public remains sat on it’s anus doing nothing about their proliferation – Where is the ‘death to drones’ party?!!!

“Where is the ‘death to drones’ party?”

They’re all taken up with bankers’ pay and MPs expenses ?

Drones already flying – and crashing – over West Wales:

http://www.cambrian-news.co.uk/news/i/4507/

Mark Golding -

less than ten years. Kent Police have been testing them. Deployment for surveillance in about two years – but they’re the same model that can be fitted with weaponry, I think.

Bro Emlyn ?” for Peace and Justice (BEPJ.org.uk)

opposing drones in West Wales:

http://www.bepj.org.uk/drone-crashes-at-parc-aberporth

Come to think of it, a drone could explain the UFO incident from Wales some time ago, though it would have to have been a faster model, I think. From memory – a police helicopter, about to land at an airfield, took evasive action to avoid a collision. The helicopter gave chase, but had to give up due to shortage of fuel. I can’t remember where I saw the report now.

“CCTV in the sky: police plan to use military-style spy drones

Arms manufacturer BAE Systems developing national strategy with consortium of government agencies”

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jan/23/cctv-sky-police-plan-drones

(guardian link)

“preventing theft of tractors” ? “fly-tipping” ?I hadn’t realised they were such major problems.

And, what’s the photo ? Looks like a good old-fashioned blimp, to me.

Clark,

Thanks – moral of the story – always carry a camera phone.

Who said this?

I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place.

Arsalan,

Google tells me that your quote is from an 1899 book by Churchill, when he was 25.

I noticed that larry popped up after a mention of nine eleven. Perhaps in future if we refer to ix:xi we won’t trigger his alert.

Nonetheless, anno, on a more profound note, I think your analysis of people being taken for rides is accurate.

Interestingly, the BBC World Service is owned by the Foreign Office, not the BBC. Not that it’d make any difference, nowadays, or perhaps ever.

Or vi: vi: vi.

“Blair Getting Away With Murder”

Tzipi Livni Getting Away With Murder…

http://tinyurl.com/ych4co3

“vi: vi: vi.”

The editor of the beast ?

“Tzipi Livni Getting Away With Murder”

“Norman Finkelstein Speaks in Edmonton”…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7AtO_KGE-I

writerman said,

‘The Power State only respects and notices power. The Power State hates democracy, the power of the people, because democracy threatens elite rule; that’s why democracy is being systematically undermined, as the interests of the “ruling class” and the people diverge radically, in a the coming, post-consumer society, in the age of less, not more.

I absolutely agree but there is pressure on them to maintain the veneer. I also agree with

‘The only thing that matters to “ruling class”, isn’t what we say, or think, or write; what matters is what we Do, or if you like, how we act, concrete action. The rest is “insteresting” but is only as long as it doesn’t lead to action.’

but there is something else they fear and that is exposure of the highly illegal activities they divulge in which includes the theft of taxpayers’ money on a vast scale. I don’t mean MPs’ expenses.

Suhayl

In some way I think it’s true that some people in the UK are dancing in black leotards on the graves of the dead of Afghanistan. And that will lead to a terrible punishment for them, unless they wake up, repent and stop what they are doing next time, in Iran , Yemen, or wherever else they want to play this murderous game against Islam.

I don’t believe that the ordinary British soldier has this evil attitude.They see the situation and smell a rat about why they have been sent to Afghanistan.

Ruth

Just because I don’t have the evidence, am I being really stupid in thinking that the elite who promote the arms industry and steal the profits are 100% in cahoots with the Zionist failed-bankers who hate Islam?

The spectacle you raise is that our national deficit, which is the people’s responsibility, can carry on increasing , as in the US, so far as the ruling elite are concerned, so long as money is coming into their pockets for their own ends. There has been a massive re-armament of our forces, contrary to the chatter in parliament. To what extent could the ruling elite handle these vast amounts of money without the total co-operation of the Zionists?

It seems to me the evidence is plain.The agenda of our present leaders is directed against Islam, because the co-operation of the zionists is needed for their crimes to function. This has been going on for a very long time.

Notice how Craig does not delete anno’s comments about “Zionist bankers” and “crypto-Jews” and all of that.

Larry

Zionist doesn’t mean Jew, it means you!

All true Jews hate Zionism and Israel. Only people like you love Zionism and Israel.

Go back to the 911 thread and agree with Angry some more.

vi

I hated that editor

Larry’s Law:

As a thread on Craig Murray’s blog grows longer, the probability of someone writing “Zionist doesn’t mean Jew” approaches 1

Arsalan,

Speaking of Zionism, I am being bombarded by lengthy emails from the Israeli Foreign Office (feedback@mofa.gov.il). He is an extract. (full contents can be forwarded if interested) :-

The Israeli DJ – cheeky and warm

“The Israeli DJ has a very warm-feeling mentality, touching and nice. There’s a very human aspect to it, but it’s a little cheeky at the same time. That’s why people find it interesting,” he says. “I think it’s more fun than other electronic music, which can be too serious.”

With clubs in cosmopolitan world capitals regularly hosting Israeli DJs, it’s not just the patrons who are benefiting. The DJ world has become a channel through which audiences are exposed to another aspect of Israeli culture, says Heilbronner.

“I think it’s a great boost to Israel to have these DJs spreading the word around the world. I can’t count the number of times people have come up to me and asked if we still ride camels. It’s good to have ambassadors around the world showing what Israel really is,” he says.

“I think this is true Zionism – to live as every other nation. I think Herzl would have preferred endless partying to endless war.”

“I hated that editor”

*laughter* Me too. Just, less than the others.

Larry,

What do you know about probability – nothing, because you are a two bit lawyer living off the misfortunes of others. Do you offer a free single session consultancy? – I doubt it. Here, in Britain we have the CAB, it’s free and offers advice to those fallen into life’s miserable gutter. Go play debunking the debunked where you belong.

“Here, in Britain we have the CAB, it’s free and offers advice to those fallen into life’s miserable gutter.”

So now you’re taking another stab at anti-Americanism, aren’t you?

I happen to know someone who moved from NYC to London to start up a pro bono clearinghouse there, as the pro bono work among London law firms didn’t remotely compare to NYC law firms.

Are you suggesting that there are no legal services for indigent people in the U.S.? Ultimately, how do you think the U.K. would stack up? Why do you presume that British things are always better than American things?

And why do you keep bringing up Chapter 11 bankruptcy? That seems so non-sequitur that you sound very very strange.

“you are a two bit lawyer living off the misfortunes of others.”

You have no evidence either way on that claim.

“Do you offer a free single session consultancy?”

Do you even know how many varied fields there are in which a lawyer can practice?

Larry,

Simple questions – I am interested in you.

January 30, 2010

“Jeb Bush is back, and some think he’s looking presidential”…

http://tinyurl.com/ylmzmxl

larry,

The ch 11 question followed from you telling us your professional status – so in fact it WAS sequitur – and yes I am strange, in the sense I am foreign to you.

George Galloway has just said, “Iraq was invaded because it did NOT have WMD; North Korea will NOT be invaded because it HAS weapons of mass destruction.

Vronsky: Nothing wrong with vi – you just need to learn how to use it Would you prefer ‘ed’? My first choice of editor is vi every time.

Larry: Why do you hate America so much?

“The ch 11 question followed from you telling us your professional status”

But why didn’t you pick immigration or commercial litigation or construction or labor? Why Chapter 11?

“Larry: Why do you hate America so much?”

Don’t hate it; don’t love it. Just feel lucky to be here.

“‘Blair Government police investigation for war crimes’ PT2″…

http://tinyurl.com/25brwu

Either Blair is showing himself an unrepentent imperialist, or someone not partially out of touch with reality, but in his own world (i.e. being acutally touched in the head). You read and decide:-

“16.26 Sir Lawrence Freedman asks if Iraqis are justified in feeling disenchanted with the occupation, given the bloody seven years they have endured. Blair is more combative and passionate than ever, urging Iraqis to push ahead with democracy and pointing out that the soaring death toll is due to insurgent attacks, not the coalition. He insists that the people of Iraq are better off now than they were in 2001

Sir Lawrence’s roll call of fatalities provides the most emotional moment of the day so far. He ends the questioning segment by accusing the coalition’s “cavalier planning” of directly leading to civilian deaths. Blair: The fact that terrorists do these terrible things does not mean we should back away from confronting them. You have to be prepared for the long haul and stick with it until the end.

16.24 Blair says he was left “shocked and angry” by the images of abuse at Abu Ghraib because of the damage it would to do “our cause”. But says that the majority of UK and US troops were risking their lives to help the Iraqi people.”

Please compare and contrast:-

1. If the Iraqi government decided that in their honest belief – all Britons should be Muslims, and the only way to bring this about was by an illegal military invasion? – Then?; or

2. If the British government decides that in their honest belief – all Iraqis should ( on the ostensible excuse that it is “democracy” that the invading forces want to build ….ha..ha… – only if the invading forces approve of the election result like Hati or the Gaza election results) – be “politically converted” by use of force. And, the only way to bring this about was by an illegal military invasion? – Then?

Murderous bastard!And I am speaking of Blair who has destroyed Iraqi society.

This answer brings into question, Blair’s sanity and literal loss of touch with reality:-

“…urging Iraqis to push ahead with democracy and pointing out that the soaring death toll is due to insurgent attacks, not the coalition. He insists that the people of Iraq are better off now than they were in 2001″

Nice duck, Larry, but you’re not answering the question.

Why do you hate America so much?

What is the genesis of your belief that I hate America?

Why, Larry, simply because of what you post, silly! So – why do you hate America so much?

Specifically?

Yes, Larry, specifically. Tell us – why you hate America so much. We want to know!

Glenn, you’re a child.

Good, Larry… projection is an expedient path in analysis. In this regression, what does your child tell you about why you hate America so much?

Glenn, are you proud of this line of questioning, and this line of thinking? I don’t think Craig Murray’s blog is a place for your childish banter. I know that you’re not that educated and can’t compose an argument (relying instead on the need to get the last word in, even if it’s a word that makes no sense), but please understand it’s time for you to act like an adult now.

Jumping Jehosephat!

Anno, you’re right. There are a lot of very rich and powerful people dancing on the graves of the dead of both Iraq and Afghanistan, and for them, the party just goes on and on. War is their bread and butter, their porn, their cake and their golden bed. I hope they do get their comeuppence, in this life or the next (or both) but I’m not holding my breath…

Larry,

I’m not prepared to play ‘ring o’roses’ with you, that is your mentality, you are stuck in a loop – go play debunking, it is your forte and will be your downfall.

According to the nzherald another ‘al-Qaeda’ attack imminent:

http://tinyurl.com/more-al-qaeda

I hope Panetta can schedule the strike when I am awake – 8am – 2pm GMT

A pocket full of posies, atissue, atissue… Bubonic Plague.

Did I say spiders?

I don’t believe Larry, is a lawyer. I believe he is a fat forty something who still lives with Mom.

How else would he have so much time to post?

A horse, a horse, my kingdom for a horse!

“A horse, a horse, my kingdom for a horse!”

You’re out of here ? Well, maybe we can do a deal, what kind of a kingdom have you got ?

The kingdom of the mind.

Golding: “I’m not prepared to play ‘ring o’roses’ with you,”

right, after you couldn’t let go of the very odd question of whether i’m a corporate bankruptcy attorney

the record reflects what a strange person you are

are you still worried about the “coordinated, space concious swarms of hornets”

31 January 2010

“Completely Shameless”

“Blair Benefits From Banking Crisis”…

http://www.neurope.eu/articles/98788.php

February 5, 2010

“Brussels, London, Istanbul: A Week Of Western War Councils”…

http://tinyurl.com/yjpb98x

BAE…

http://tinyurl.com/yeygmvk

6 February 2010

“Tony Blair was at the centre of controversy over BAE’s arms deal with Tanzania, just as he was in the Saudi contracts.”…

http://tinyurl.com/yjdukvn

“The kingdom of the mind. ”

I’m outclassed. I suspected you might say that, & still haven’t got a snappy response. It’s probably just as well, I haven’t got any horses to swap for it, anyway.

“Denis Halliday Speaking at the World Tribunal on Iraq”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N05COs2wv3s

The Iraq Inquiry…

http://tinyurl.com/ya9dexq

I am so frustrated with the corrupt mainstream media, that will never provide us with the truth, and inquiry whitewashes that don’t get to the heart of the matter.

What were the reasons for the Iraq war, reasons that the MSM will never tell us.

Well one is Israel – the neocons (many of them Israeli passport holders)hijacked US foreign policy to nullify one of their threats. If Israel had there way, they would have regime change for all of their non-puppet neighbours.

Another MAJOR reason I’ve only just become aware of – retaining dominance of the US dollar. Few people know that Saddam decided in 2000 to sell his oil in Euros, rather than the US petrodollar. This results in less demand for the US dollar, reducing its value. The first thing the US did after taking over the oil fields was to return the oil sales back to Petrodollars. Iran have also since moved to the Euro – challenging US currency dominance – hence the threat to Iran. You won’t see this stuff in the MSM!

Please see the following links:-

http://www.projectcensored.org/top-stories/articles/19-us-dollar-vs-the-euro-another-reason-for-the-invasion-of-iraq/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEpp9E6aJGw

“I am so frustrated with the corrupt mainstream media”

“In America you can say anything you want ?” as long as it doesn’t have any effect.”…

http://killinghope.org/bblum6/aer78.html

In the UK you can say anything you want ?” as long as it doesn’t have any effect.

“Why We Seek War?”

“Not Holding Leaders Responsable for Crimes Only Breeds More War”…

http://tinyurl.com/ya4de8n

December 15, 2009

“The Real Ugliness of the Obama / Wall Street Connection”…

tinyurl.com/ykfdkt7