A little off topic Craig, but I was wondering if you have seen Rory Stewart’s “The Legacy of Lawrence of Arabia Part 1″?

When he discussed, in situ, Lawrence’s secret mission to map the border regions of the Ottoman Empire, using an interest in the archaeology of the region as cover, I was expecting at least a big wink to camera, but the moment of supreme irony passed unremarked. Perhaps it was just a teaser and he is planning to “come out” in Part 2.

Owen, what you wrote is on the topic, not off it.

The clip was about what is happening. You wrote the reason why it is happening. Just as you cannot understand why there are so many wars and dictatorships in the Middle East now if you don’t think about what created the Middle East we have now, its maps with petty states, where each and every boarded is artificial and disputed.

As you mentioned this was created by the likes of Lawrence to insure perpetual wars, petty states governed by puppet dictators, each replaced by a son more brutal then his father.

Central Asia is the same, and has the same cause. The only difference is the Middle East mess was mainly the work of the British, with the French and the Americans playing a minor role, while central Asian mess was the work of the Russians with the British and Chinese playing a minor role.

These petty states means their is no international balance of power, until such balance is achieved their will be perpetual war. The nations of central Asia and the middle east are so small and petty, that they are an open invite to other nations of the world to invade and interfere. If the West stops interfering, it will openly mean that invasions will come from the North or East. The solution has to come from those nations themselves to restore the balance of power. The people of those nations have to remove and replace their rulers and reunite in to a nation large enough to deter interference and invasions. As the man with a beard in the clip said, Muslim nations need to reunite in to their Khilafah.

‘Bloody Stupid Johnson’ spouting over-exaggerated terrorist threats usually followed by over-exaggerated ability of security services to protect us.

Of course the terrorist rating has been raised to soften us up for Blair’s appearance at the Iraq Inquiry.

http://www.johnpilger.com/page.asp?partid=560

Essential reading. Meanwhile the West wrings its public media hands over Haiti which it had already brought to its impoverished knees long before the earthquake.

Meanwhile Straw washes his hands like Pilate, over the catastrophe of Iraq where the disaster was not only tenfold that of Haiti but wilfully illegally executed and no natural disaster. I think Elizabeth Wilmshurst should make a public submission to the Chilcot Inquiry. If she is asked she should make sure she goes for no walks in the country beforehand.

Meanwhile Frances Inglis faces the prospect of many years in jail for the death of her son, – as in the background Jack Straw and Tony Blair smirk like baboons having got away with mass murder.

What do we have to do for the UK to regain its integrity in foreign policy – or was it always dodgy like this?

Orwell was right in so much detail apart from the year. Government policy and Government policy perception management simply exist in totally different unrelated spaces now.

“Owen, what you wrote is on the topic, not off it.”

I agree it has some relevance to the wider geo-political-historical situation, Arsalan. I wrote “slightly off-topic” because the precise geographical region being referred to at that point in the programme wasn’t Central Asia.

“I didn?t realise that Terry Pratchett knew Alan Johnson until recently and that he?d based his Discworld character ?Bloody Stupid Johnson? on him.

?Bloody Stupid Johnson? is notorious for his complete inability to produce anything according to common sense or accepted science.. He also has an annoying habit of misinterpreting figures.”

Based? … more like an in-depth profile!

The biggest threat in Central Asia is China. Since they already occupy a large chunk of it (East Turkistan) and are eyeing up land in Kazakstan.

Perhaps they know of some upcoming CIA false flag operation.

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/world/asia_pacific/exclusive+mumbai+terror+suspect+warned+of+attacks/3511237

This bloke was working for the Americans and he planned the Mumbai killings to get India to attack Pakistan.

Perhaps if the CIA were banned there’d be no terrorism and we could all get back to living normally.

I susepct that’s not what they want though. This is the Blair legacy for Britain.

do the conspiraloons at this site really believe that the Mumbai attacks (especially the one at the synagogue) were a “CIA false flag operation”?

Larry … the only ‘conspiraloons’ l know are from my own Government. This level of hysteria regarding terrorist threats is farcical when compared to the total lack of hysteria when we had the numerous bombings and shootings in the Northern Ireland ‘troubles’.

To some extent, I agree with that. In fact, I quit smoking recently in part on the basis of decisions regarding real risk.

Nonetheless, I think we know what to expect if Muslim extremist terrorists are able to move radiological or radioactive materials into the center of London.

For instance.

Then why, Larry (who may know about St Louis but clearly knows nothing about London) pray tell, are the muslim terorists any more likely to do that than the IRA terrorists – who also had International funding and support.

No, I don’t know what to expect. Everyone will be amazed? The normal procedures for dealing with a dirty bomb will then be followed? Muslims will rightly say ‘these people are not representative of Muslims, just as your Mr McVeigh was not representative of Americans’? Everyone will go back to normal?

For instance.

And peacewisher’s point is right.

For instance.

peacewisher, there are distinctions in life. For instance, the Shining Path is different than that Japanese cult that put sarin gas in the subway some years back. It’s fairly clear that the nutjob ideology of Muslim extremists (especially their beliefs about what happens to them after they’re martyred) is a bit different than the political beliefs of Irish Catholics.

For one thing, Muslim extremists put a premium on suicide attacks.

I’m sure you can think of other distinctions.

“Muslims will rightly say ‘these people are not representative of Muslims”

It wasn’t just Muslims who said that. Even the silly George W. Bush said that Islam was a religion of peace.

is everyone here so dense that you can’t figure out distinctions between two different terrorist groups?

Oh, I see, to plant a dirty bomb as you were suggesting, you have to have a ‘nutjob ideology’ consisting of martyrdom?

No, you don’t. You start the timer and fuck off. Have you not seen any films?

But nice to know there ‘are distinctions in life’: I can see them in your own posts. Brave, good IRA terrorists, without a ‘premium’ on suicide attacks; nothing like nasty bad suicidal terrorists with beards, or right wing terrorists with guns and explosives.

‘Terence Gavan sentenced for explosives, firearms and terrorism offences’

http://www.cps.gov.uk/news/press_releases/103_10/

For instance.

Spartan: “Larry … the only ‘conspiraloons’ l know are from my own Government. This level of hysteria regarding terrorist threats is farcical when compared to the total lack of hysteria when we had the numerous bombings and shootings in the Northern Ireland ‘troubles’.”

I think that this type of risk-barometer thing is only going to have a short shelf-life. Despite what Michael Moore believes people think, most people can’t be kept permanently in fear by raising and reducing “threat levels”. People learn to take weather forecasts seriously because they see and experience correlations to what weather forecasters say and what happens. If rain is forecast there’s a good chance rain will come that day and so you’ll take an umbrella. If terror is forecast people soon switch off after so many false alarms.

In fact, the only people I know who truly live in this kind of terror, permanantly are the paranoid loons such as Truthers who think their government actually cares about how they live their daily lives and spend all their time feverishly imagining conspiracies aimed at them and their freedoms. The fact that their fantasy dissidence poses no threat to anyone at all seems to escape them.

Oh, but Spartan. I do note there is an incredibly amusing amount of cognitive dissonance on this blog. Arsalan Goldberg, for example, is in no doubt that if radical Muslims (or Muslims in his view) ever get hold of more sophistiated and destructive weaponry then he says they WILL use it and he pretty much expects it to happen. Many other posters here seem to nod along with him and then say that only the government or the Zionists, or whoever is pushing this view.

If Arsalan’s forecast ever comes true will you ever give credit to those Arsalan says are prepared to do this? Or will you find another way to blame the Matrix or whatever else you subscribe to?

Jesus, M & J, angrysoba. ‘Give credit to those Arsalan says are prepared to do this’? I thought you were rational.

And, by the way, you’re not living here, with its talk of spy drones in the sky (we’re getting those, apparently) and terrorism and political betrayal and fear. Walk down Oxford St sometime and look at the faces. A population can be made to fear, even with no results.

It shouldn’t, obviously. But I think from my own small view of the capital, it can.

“Jesus, M & J, angrysoba. ‘Give credit to those Arsalan says are prepared to do this’? I thought you were rational. ”

I mean give credit in the sense that while a lot of people here smirk at the idea of those Arsalan Goldberg identifies as being willing and able to do it, they always have to play some bizarre parlour game of “cui bono” and making excruciating arguments about how it was probably the Gubmint or the Jews wot dunnit.

Hey, some people even think natural disasters are the fault of the aforementioned:

http://angrysoba.blogspot.com/2010/01/joooos-haarp.html

“A population can be made to fear, even with no results.”

Are you kidding?

This is one thing that made me believe that Michael Moore was talking garbage by telling people they were peeing their pants with fear all the time.

They don’t. Truthers and paranoids fear all the time. The reason why they tell everyone else that they are in a state of fear is because they project their own feelings.

Looks like AngryLarry is back to his Islam bashing.

Many nations have nuclear weapons.

Just as many have conventional weapons.

weapons are made to be used.

Some nations use them for imperialism while others use them for defense.

Who is currently using their weapons for imperialism?

Is it the Muslims?

If so which Non-Muslim countr has been invaded by Muslims in the last 50 years?

In the last 100 years?

In the last 150 years?

in the last 200 years?

Now, take that time period, and ask yourself how many countries did America invade?

Who should we fear?

Someone mentioned what would happen if Muslims get hold of radioactive material.

To answer this I will tell you many Muslim countries have radio active material. And one has Nuclear weapons. have they been used?

No!

Which is the only country to have used nuclear weapons?

America!

So whose radioactive material should you fear?

OK if you are going to say “the great Satan will use its radioactive weapons only on military targets while Muslims might use theirs if they get them on civilians”.

America did not use them on a military target, they did not nuke a airfield, a military base, a navel base or even a weapons factory. They dropped their nuclear bombs on two cities.

Theirs is the weapons the world should fear.

And then Angry decides to twist my words as he has done all over this forum and his own with his typical racist twist.

So to him when I replied to his Larry incarnation, that Muslims do not fight to die, but they die to fight. If they didn’t have to die to inflict casualties they wouldn’t need to, Larry’s racism instantly told him I meant Muslims would Nuke cities if the had those weapons.

While to all right thinking people here, it would mean, “If Muslims had fighter planes to fight your fighter planes etc”.

And I believe one day we will have such things. That they will come when we replace the puppet rulers of our countries, unite then fight.

I do not believe we will ever behave like the Americans and drop nuclear bombs on cities. This is because we worship God, while they worship Money.

Blaming it on the government is fair: at least, our government was not elected to wage aggressive warfare, it was elected in a surge of peace & optimism and has squandered that for a chance to still play the world stage. These are real people, with a mandate from the electorate which has been ignored.

Blaming it on the ‘Jews’ on the other hand is just – words fail me – gross. Just as attempts to portray Muslims as mad suicidal extremists is gross.

But what does it avail us, if we sit here, condemning violent extremism out of hand, while our society continues to exploit and kill in the name of our government? Does it matter that you think ‘the Jews (and/or Muslims) are not to blame’? Or that someone else says ‘yes, the Jews and/or Muslims are to blame’?

I’d say it does matter, because the people who are saying the latter are aiming for power. And the nonsense can only get worse if they achieve it.

“Nonetheless, I think we know what to expect if Muslim extremist terrorists are able to move radiological or radioactive materials into the center of London.”

We could certainly make a guess, based on what happened when some bunch of Russians did exactly that, just a few years back.

Richard, and?

As for fear, asoba, you’re right.People who feed into other’s people’s fear are sick, but it is a problem if you follow this at all. Because we have endless, surreal TV, telling us there is nothing to be afraid of, while the news reports tell us exactly otherwise. Which is why I generally stick to comedy. I hope, though, feeding into fear is different to swapping perspectives on this board with people who are willingly here, and have faced the fear (yeah) already. That’s why I’m here, anyway.

Notice that I compared every Muslim country combined against just one country. Remebering Muslims make up 1/4 of everyone.

Now lets talk about deaths. How many people has America killed?

I am just talking about the Government here. Not American terrorists or criminals.

Then compare that to everyone killed by a Muslim, any Muslim during the same time period. Shall we say the last 10 years, 20 years 50 years how about the last 150 years?

What do you get?

Forget the “bearded suicide terrorist” this is the 21st century and as ‘Technicolour’ tells this is the age of the ‘spy in the sky’ -

The Nato forces now depend on a range of killer robots, largely designed by the British Ministry of Defence labs privatised by Tony Blair in 2001. Every time you hear about a “drone attack” against Afghanistan or Pakistan, that’s an unmanned robot dropping bombs on human beings. Push a button and it flies away, kills, and comes home. Its robot-cousin on the battlefields below is called SWORDS: a human-sized robot that can see 360 degrees around it and fire its machine-guns at any target it “chooses”. Fox News proudly calls it “the GI of the 21st century.” And billions are being spent on the next generation of warbots, which will leave these models looking like the bulky box on which you used to play Pong.

Clunk click every chip!

source – Independent

Arsalan, could you provide me with just one racist statement that I have made, please.

technicolour, I don’t think I attempted to portray Muslims as mad suicidal extremists, did I?

Arsalan, they’ll just think they haven’t pissed you off enough yet.

Btw, want to say, me, I dislike the Iraqi resistance intensely. Why they could not have come up with something more amusing (shooting the Americans with paintball guns filled with pink paint pellets for example) I do not know.

No offence to anyone who died screaming and all. But one loses interest in violence.

No, asoba, and didn’t mean to suggest you did. I was gathering some threads from previous posts.

Angrylarry every statement or belief you attributed to me, which wasn’t based on anything I said was a racist comment you said. Because they were based on your prejudice of Muslims and not on what I said.

I have already told you this.

And I have also explained why I call it racism and not sectarianism. So if you want any further explanations, go and read what I wrote on other threads.

I see it as beneath me to repeat myself for you and that goes for both of you if you are two.

Al Hub aas-salam

Sha-lom ve a-ha-vah

That was me. Arsalan, I hope I haven’t attributed anything to you. I appreciate and vale your perspective, and I’m sorry for being flippant.

And no need to be suspicious (viz steelback/apostate etc) of my being linked to asoba or larry. If you look back on this board (or just ask Craig) you’ll find I’ve been posting for far longer than is sensible, quite on my own.

I agree there is something of a connection, though it is apolitical. It seems to be a wormy desire to get at facts, however that is displayed. I hope I listen to them when I get them.

Otherwise, postings of opinions here are really, quite informative. I go back to my ‘Muslim’ and ‘Jewish’ and ‘indigenous’ friends with some interesting perspectives, though I’m not sure I want to tell anyone about them.

Tech

Bro,

I can’t see why you would think you have said anything to upset me?

I don’t mind people disagreeing with me, but to the best of my knowledge I can’t remember us disagreeing on anything?

What I said to Larry in the original reply that Angry quoted was a repeat of what the Algerian resistance said as a reply to criticism of the French colonialists.

The Algerians managed to end colonialism by using young women to plant bombs in Cafes containing French soldiers.

The French accused such tactics of being barbaric. The Algerians replied, give us your planes and tanks to fight you with and then we will stop using such tactics.

Larry kept repeating the old slogan. “They are killing us because they want to die”, My response was the quote of the Algerian to the French colonialists.

What I meant to say to the Americans is Muslims are using the only weapon we have against you which is our very lives. A day will come when we will have the weapons you have, then we will fight you with such weapons. When that day comes, you will have to find another slogan to use against us.

But I don’t like writing these long paragraphs when I mean a single sentence.

I think I am going to set up my own forum so we can continue discussions. Because of the different threads at different levels sometimes things get confusing here. It will not be an Angry sober type blog used to backbite and bitch. It will be one where people can post threads, and then discuss them with others.

Any ideas for a name?

Hey, Arsalan, you mixed up angrysoba and larry and accused them of having a ‘racist twist’. I’d say one of them does (without necessarily realising it), and the other does not, at all. But good that you’re not offended.

Me, I would not kill, except by accident. There are always other, more interesting ways to deal with violence. This is why I find protestations of violence:

“Muslims are using the only weapon we have against you which is our very lives. A day will come when we will have the weapons you have, then we will fight you with such weapons”

very dull. Before that day comes, why don’t you find something better to tackle things with?

“I think I am going to set up my own forum so we can continue discussions… Any ideas for a name?”

The Far From Soba Blog!

Sorry for using ‘you’. I didn’t mean to. Obviously the issue was hypothetical.

Just as all of this is hypothetical, of course. A day will come when I will have a trillion dollars and can cure world hunger. Then you’ll see!

arsalan,

Yes I have a name – I came up with it first in 2005 after the Underground ‘power disruptions’ (cough) but it may have been taken by somebody else but who cares, it is;

“Mind The Gap”

“Mind The Gap” (between your ears…)

Craig Murray, I was wondering what Ahmed Rashid’s book on the IMU was like. I have never found that book although I have read Taliban and Descent Into Chaos (I believe you have a couple of walk-on parts in the latter).

I think Ahmed Rashid is a great journalist. What are your thoughts on him and his books?

that is a great name, but you posted it just after I created it. sorry.

But I will call one of the sub sections

Mind the gap

I was thinking about a news section

a info section

etc

http://www.iwannaforum.com/unite

angrysoba, is that you posting with a link to your name & without one?

the thing is made.

you can post and discuess if you want.

I will add subsections sometime next week because I am really busy right now.

Maybe I can get some ideas from you guys.

“Richard, and?”

Reality-check, is all. If someone wants to speculate on how we’d behave if the sky fell on our heads, it might be fruitful to start by looking at how we behaved last time the sky fell on our heads.

Just trying to be helpful.

“angrysoba, is that you posting with a link to your name & without one?”

Yep. PC problems.

Don’t tell me you read something a bit more suspicious into it (i.e I was changing to my Larry persona or something).

AS: No! Richard; sorry, very demanding, in that crappy ‘if I type this quickly I can persuade myself I’m just taking a break without letting it take over’ kind of way. I just meant, when did the Russians let off a dirty bomb?, but was too lazy to google it.

I actually think Ahmed Rashed is a twit. The main reason why I think this is because AngryLarry likes him. It is not possible for AngryLarry to like someone who is not a twit.

The secondary reason why he is a twit is he repeats the old neocon line of calling any resistance however non-violent as terrorism.

The way he does this is accuss the Non-Violent political Party, Hizb ut Tahrir of working in calibration with the Islamic Army of Uzbekistan.

These two groups have completely different methods and aims. Only a Neocon of the type that accuses J witnesses of working for Al Qaida can confuse the two.

arsalan, don’t go!

OK, which of ‘larry’ or ‘angrysoba’ has done which? Which one accused the ‘Non-Violent political Party, Hizb ut Tahrir of working in calibration with the Islamic Army of Uzbekistan.’?

What’s more, what would it matter?

Tech sorry

Ahmed Rashed says HT and IMU are one.

Angrysober likes Ahmed Rashed.

Ahmed Rashed is a twit, and AngrySober only likes twits.

sorry that was IAU

NOr is it:

Not everyone Angrysober likes is a twit, but most twits are people he likes

Or is it:

Not everyone Angrysober likes is a twit, but most twits are people he likes

sorry for the double, I’m using an old Keyboard because this cordless one I tried is crap.

Neither Larry nor I have accused Hizb-ut-Tahrir of collaborating with the IMU as far as I know. Arsalan doesn’t like the journalist Ahmed Rashid because according to AG, Ahmed Rashid accuses HuT of collaborating with the IMU.

Ahmed Rashid’s an interesting writer. He does wear his heart on his sleeve and he is prone to broad brush interpretations and simple factual errors, but he is someone who has travelled widely within Taliban-era Afghanistan and has been reporting on and criticising the Pakistani government for a long time. Gulbuddin Hekmatyar put a price on Ahmed Rashid’s head and he’s had squabbles with Dostum and with Ishmail Khan. He clearly is someone who has been close to the events and I respect his reporting.

He did support the war in Afghanistan on the basis that getting rid of the Taliban could only be a good thing and he hoped (along with Ashraf Ghani) that a NATO victory there would usher in a mass reconstruction of the country aided and funded by international donors but was shocked to see that no such aid and funding arrived. Tariq Ali has, unkindly, called him a “prize cock” of NATO. And some people are no doubt suspicious of his ties to Hamid Karzai and the late Abdul Haq.

I think he’s worth reading, and I am sure you know of him, technicolour.

“I just meant, when did the Russians let off a dirty bomb?”

The actual point raised was moving “radiological or radioactive materials into the center of London”, and what might happen.

Polonium. 2 winters back ? 3 ? 1 dead Russian dissident, traces of contamination all over the place.

Perhaps, also, I was thinking that the world is full of people with ugly intentions, and that obsessing on the evils of one tiny selection risks taking our eyes off all the other balls.

(and you may take that last word how you will …)

One of those balls is, anybody who wants to worry about nuclear explosions in London would do well to forget ‘The Muslims’. The first thing to do would have to be, to go to flat-out war with all traces of organised crime. Er, and win.

Anybody feel like getting wound up ? I’ll give you a present :- One helpful thing would be to legalise cannabis and put in a standing order for the Afghan crop. Organically grown, fairtrade, photos of smiling peasants, tax it to hell and back … so much for my “reality check”, eh ?

If you translate what Angry just wrote from Neocon in to English it says:

Ahmed Rashed is a lying bitch of the warmongering NeoCons.

Factual errors is just the word Necons use when they admit to lying.

So Blair and Straw said a bunch of Factual Errors to justify the Iraq war.

I wouldn’t use the word “prize cock”, to describe him, instead I’d use the word “Prize Dick”.

Richard, perhaps I’m mistaken, but if a small nuke goes off in London, before suspecting Muslim extremists, would you suspect Russian terrorists?

Have you read Ahmed Rashid, Arasalan?

I have read things by him, and that’s emough to tell me I have no time to read his book.

Larry, do you know how hard it is to make a Nuke? You cannot make one by sticking some sand in a sock and wave it about.

Your government might want you to think it is that easy. And you may be dumb enough to believe it is so easy.

But not many people outside of your country is so dumb. For the rest of us, it takes countries to make and fire Nukes.

And not every country, just a few of them.

Arsalan, you have a very silly view of what goes on in America.

As to a nuke, the real issue is getting the materials. It’s extremely difficult, but not impossible.

To create a dirty bomb, you just need radioactive materials and you can do without creating a fission reaction.

“Richard, perhaps I’m mistaken, but if a small nuke goes off in London, before suspecting Muslim extremists, would you suspect Russian terrorists?”

In such an event, I imagine Arsalan’s point from a couple of threads back would come into play, big-time; when you’re on the pointy end of a bullet, you have more urgent concerns than who wrote what on the weapon. (I am hardly likely to be among the teams with responsibility for finding such things out, anyway).

But, you were asking about my prejudices – unless it was delivered by some kind of airborne means, my first thought would be the (generic) Mafia, for taking money to get it past the border controls. As I indicated above.

@Larry: If a nuke goes off in London… my hypothetical reaction would that it was a state-sponsored act by a nuclear power. Maybe I’m a bit old-fashioned. If a nuke went off in New York (I don’t think Missouri would be the first choice for any nuclear bomber, no offense) would your first reaction really be to suspect the Muslim terrorists from the Tora Bora caves? If so, that’s an interesting cultural difference.

Will read Rashid with interest.

Arsalan, yes, about nukes. Larry seems to feel like he’s tallking to drones. I think we should email people in St Louis, and ask them what would happen there if a dirty bomb went off and who they would suspect. Hey, we could ring them, and do it in whispers.

That was sarcasm, by the way. Still, bugger. I do this.

“Wer das Tod furcht, kann das Leben nicht geniessen”

technicolour – ‘if I type this quickly I can persuade myself I’m just taking a break without letting it take over’

I know what you mean. i thought I’d just try one little one, just out of curiosity, see for myself what it was like. And then, well, it was kind of interesting so I did it again. I thought I could handle it, I thought I was in control and could stop whenever I felt like it. But soon I was scrolling down to the end of the thread several times a day to see if anyone had said anything new …

(that was in 1993)

Larry,

According to Richard Tomlinson 60lb devices were hidden by the KGB IN America but the FBI called such reports ‘exaggerated’ – such a bomb is highly complex requiring neutr quences.

I understand Dr David Kelly had not only been working on some of the potentially most destructive bioweapons, but was the authority on the subject.

Tony

Tony,

Understand completely – years ago I designed fuse systems and my only thoughts were ‘what damn device can I use that meets the specification.

When I signed for military service I never ever thought – sh*t I might kill someone, I just wanted to make my dad proud because he said it was the best thing I could do – (military service runs in my family) and I was very impressionable then.

..and Kelly bless him, I’m sure that’s why he joined the Baha’i faith – emphasizing the spiritual unity of all humankind?

Larry to answer your question on what would happen if a dirty bomb went off in London?

What would happen is a lot less than what happened in Iraq and Afghanistan when the Americans covered the country with depleted uranium.

yes well, not even one wrong makes a right, never mind two.

So many people fear what will happen if the Terrorists get it, because people are too busy fearing what America has already got.

No one will fear what will happen if radioactive weapons are used, because they are already being used. And America is the one using them.

Tech I, but three rights make a left.

No one is planing to plant a dirty bomb anywhere.

If they were able to get such weapons they will easily be able to get hold of guns or bombs that work.

You know the sort the IRA had and used.

Only Americans are so thick as to believe people who can’t even get guns and working bombs in to the Country, can manufacture nuclear warheads, and then get them in to the country.

what do they think Muslims will do?

Hide 10 of radioactive material in our underpants?

or intercontinental missile up our arses?

Which one of these does he think a muslim will smuggle by hiding up his bum?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/MRBM-IRBM.jpg

“Which one of these does he think a muslim will smuggle by hiding up his bum?”

You people are fucking nuts. I’m not talking about a re-entry warhead.

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Fire and Ice

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Some say the world will end in fire,

Some say in ice.

From what I’ve tasted of desire

I hold with those who favor fire.

But if it had to perish twice,

I think I know enough of hate

To say that for destruction ice

Is also great

And would suffice

To begin with, I was talking about a dirty bomb.

But yes, sorry, it’s possible for a non-state actor to create a small fission device. It’s actually just a matter of time.

Perhaps I know a bit more about this because my 5th grade (when I was 11) science project was on creating a fission device.

And, btw, I was never concerned with chemical attacks in the U.S. after 911. The duct tape business was just silly.

Since it’s just a matter of time, please all witness that I leave my genius to the nation.

Larry,

That’s British sense of humor[sic] Doh!

Rob Lewis:

“@Larry: If a nuke goes off in London… my hypothetical reaction would that it was a state-sponsored act by a nuclear power. Maybe I’m a bit old-fashioned. If a nuke went off in New York (I don’t think Missouri would be the first choice for any nuclear bomber, no offense) would your first reaction really be to suspect the Muslim terrorists from the Tora Bora caves? If so, that’s an interesting cultural difference.”

Rob, you need to educate yourself on what it takes to build a fission device.

It’s not a cultural difference to suspect Muslim extremists.

If something like that happens, will you reserve judgment until you know that it’s not the Quaker or the Scientologists?

Let me name someone who will also suspect Muslim extremists in such an event: David Cameron

And he will be the next prime minister (if you haven’t heard).

Moreover, Tony Blair and your current prime minister would also instantly suspect Muslim extremists (without having to question whether it was La Cosa Nostra or the Ukraine).

So it can’t be much of a cultural difference.

“Perhaps I know a bit more about this because my 5th grade (when I was 11) science project was on creating a fission device.”

Nice troll, very neatly dropped in.

techniclolour,

the ability to do so is a matter of time. wouldn’t you think, in 50 years, producing U-235 will be a bit easier than it is today? otherwise, don’t you think there will be more fissable material in existence?

Larry reentry warheads have been miniaturised.

It takes a lot of skill and experience to do it. it would be a lot harder to fit a botch Job nuclear warhead you and your American education assume someone will be able to knock up in his shed can fit up his arse.

“According to Richard Tomlinson 60lb devices were hidden by the KGB IN America but the FBI called such reports ‘exaggerated’ – such a bomb is highly complex requiring neutron amplifiers and cannot combine enough shielding to prevent detection from particle monitors spread around the capital.”

Mark, what the fuck does that even mean? Did you just refute yourself there?

Anyway

I’m not intrested in what Larry thinks I can shove up my arse.

I am more intrested in angry’s Friend Ahmed Rashid, and telling everyone what a bitch he is.

hello, earth to larry?

“Perhaps I know a bit more about this because my 5th grade (when I was 11) science project was on creating a fission device.”

OK Larry,

Strontium90 half life is 28 years and its decay is A=Aoe^-0.024755t.

How long will it take 50grms strontium90 to decay to 20grms?

“Perhaps I know a bit more about this because my 5th grade (when I was 11) science project was on creating a fission device.”

“Nice troll, very neatly dropped in.”

Did it work, by the way ?

this is weird:

“the ability to do so is a matter of time. wouldn’t you think, in 50 years, producing U-235 will be a bit easier than it is today? otherwise, don’t you think there will be more fissable material in existence?”

?

Well here goes,

Ahmed Rashid is a Neocon Bitch. He isn’t a journalist he is just a Bitch and the Neocons are his pimps.

This is because Journalists are people who try and find information to report on. While Ahmed Rashid just write what his pimps tell him to write.

We all know that Neocons torture people. To make the torture they make justification that they do so to find out where a bomb is hidden.

So when the likes of Ahmed Rashid accuse members of non-violent opposite of working with armed opposition. the Bitch Ahmed Rashid is justifying the torture, not just justifying but aiding and abetting.

So when people who are not part of any armed stuggle, and are members of groups that the world and everyone in it know are non-violent are boiled alive.

Ahmed Rashid shares the blame. Not just shares, he has the lions share, because the policemen and soldiers doing the boiling are just following orders. Ahmed Rashid is the one giving them, by justifying them.

And this is the man whose book Angrysober recommended, and this is the bitch who angry but sober said wears his heart on his sleeve.

So Angry, your knowledge and your belief that it is possible to construct a nuclear wardhead in a shead and hide it up your arse is based on your 5th grade education?

Why am I not surprised?

Drat, of course, these days trolling is more about getting people to skim read and accept nonsense & therefore seem to acquiesce with the trolling. In the old days it was more ‘you’re a bunch of cunts’ and therefore easier to spot. This didn’t quite work, in that I thought it was stupid, but nor did I feel it worth taking up, either. So I guess it ‘worked’, in a way.

Larry is busy googling or phoning his science teacher?

“was on creating a fission device”

Not

“was creating a fission device”

I thought I expressed that correctly, and I did.

sorry angry, that last one was for larry.

that is unless you are the same person.

so Larry, your knowledge and your belief that it is possible to construct a war head in a shed and hide it up your arse is based on your American 5th grade education?

Do you want to know something?

I believe you!

And do you want to know something else?

I am not surprised!

Do you know what I just remembered. Do you lot remember when Blear said he had evidence that Iraq was able to construct Nuclear weapons before the war. And he said that they can do so in large trucks and all the scientists were saying that was impossible.

Then after the war it turned out he was using a stolen piece of homework from a university student as his evidence?

Do you think Brown and Obama are using Larry’s 5th grade homework to do this terror scare?

OK, Larry, in British schools the idea of having *any* lessons on ‘creating a fission device’ is kind of unthinkable? Except in the most abstract way possible, which would never lead you to cite it on a blog as proof of anything.

“so Larry, your knowledge and your belief that it is possible to construct a war head in a shed and hide it up your arse is based on your American 5th grade education?”

No, you silly gooses are not understanding.

I was clearly not arguing that a 5th grader could create a fission device.

I was merely mentioning that I read a lot about how to create a fission device, and my science project was on how to create one. In addition to book research, I talked to a working physicist in my neighborhood and he impressed upon me the fact that creating a fission device is really just a matter of having the material.

After reading what Tech just wrote. Correction, I don’t believe you.

In British schools, we have English Maths, Science French, maybe German. In American Schools you have constructing nuclear bombs? And at 5th grade?

I though it was only the Palistinians you accused of doing that?

Larry I think it is about time you try and find another forum to trol.

You are not going to be able to convert anyone here.

I’m bored of Larry now, Tech, do you have any ideas about cooking salmon.

My wife is at her sisters, so I need to cook my own snacks.

“OK, Larry, in British schools the idea of having *any* lessons on ‘creating a fission device’ is kind of unthinkable? Except in the most abstract way possible, which would never lead you to cite it on a blog as proof of anything.”

technicolour, you’ll try everything you can to make yourself feel superior to Americans, won’t you?

I think you’re quite wrong – I don’t think a British school would prevent a child from doing a project on nuclear fission. There’s a number of uses for a fission device – one big thing that comes to mind, especially for young lads, is Project Orion.

It can’t be that bad in Britain. You still have science there, right? The faith schools haven’t completely taken over, have they?

I have put some Garlic Mushrooms in the oven, so a way of doing salmon that will go with that.

Any ideas?

I can answer what Larry just said, but I would prefer to talk to Tech about what to do with all the salmon I have in my freezer

Mark, richard anybody?

Hay I’m hungy, I have salmon, what do I do with it?

Once again, I answer every one of your stupid arguments, and you want to take your ball and go home.

Arsalan: Try this: http://www.cooks.com/rec/doc/0,1617,145178-247196,00.html

Or this:

http://www.cooks.com/rec/doc/0,1817,148184-233205,00.html

Personally, though, I’d advise you to go veggie

bollocks, I’ll just eat the Mushrooms on their own

thanks, I didnt see that when I made my last post

You have to admit Larry is good pulling the thread so it drops out the needle (so to speak)

Arsalan,

First sentence of ‘new’ thread for discussion:

The Armed Forces of Pakistan have recently rejected any prospect of a military operation in any part of the country.

The nefarious Intelligence agencies that have organized and lead the looting and genocide of millions of people in peaceful and poor nations in the name of War on Terror have done so in order to capitalize on the resources that these countries have. True or False?

The armed forces of Pakistan are already fighting all over the country.

The second bit has always been the case. Big nations attack small. The Warlike attack the peaceful, and the rich attack the poor.

People are like that.

I think my Mushrooms are ready now, bye

Superior to Americans? What does that mean? Superior to Mark Twain? Thurber? Mencken?

Anyway, I believe you. Thousands of British schoolchildren are learning to make ‘fission devices’ as I type.

Salmon in foil with 2 pcs lemon, butter, sea-salt and black pepper – oven 180 25 mins

arsalan, since you ask, I would stop being mean.

which actually you weren’t; it was more Mark Golding. Drat, ignore me.

These same entities I mentioned are now in coalition with NATO and the US Forces to neutralize Pakistan?s Army and its nuclear capability I believe, for they know that these Pakistani assets are the ultimate threat to the existence of the apartheid and terrorist state of Israel.

The 9/11 attacks in 2001 were the starting point for a sophisticated and long-term war in this region.

My hope that President Obama’s ‘change’ might have lead to negotiations with Pakistan Taliban are dashed in the now AfPak war.

“Hay I’m hungy, I have salmon, what do I do with it?”

Sorry, I was off eating my tea

“Cook it, dear Liza, dear Liza, dear Liza”.

In the freezer, you said ? One thing I sometimes do starting from there is, get a steamer pan, put some potatoes to boil in the bottom bit & the frozen salmon to steam in an upper pan. If it’s not too thick a chunk & can thaw through, they’ll both come ready about the same time. After that, whatever you like; I tend to do mash & flake the fish into it, along with anything else I have handy. It’s not pretty, but it’s easy and tastes good.

If it’s thawed, a couple of minutes each side in a frying-pan’ll do it.

(Health warning : I am a rubbish cook).

Ah, no. Hang on.

Cook it, dear Liza,

dear Liza, dear Liza.

Cook it, dear Liza

Or else eat it raw.

There, that’s better.

If it’s thawed is crucial -else rubbery salmon that curls at the edges!

technicolour,

Ignore me also, I was throwing my weight around as usual!

Mark, for one thing, Obama doesn’t believe in your silly 911 conspiracies, so try again.

Larry,

Please don’t go there – are we discussing 9/11 – No – would I discuss 9/11 here – No – did 9/11 (the event) lead to the brief invasion of Afghanistan – yes – did 9/11 try to invent the war in Iraq – yes – bad mistake!

Larry,

(CBS) CBS News has learned that barely five hours after American Airlines Flight 77 plowed into the Pentagon, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld was telling his aides to come up with plans for striking Iraq ?” even though there was no evidence linking Saddam Hussein to the attacks.

Poor ‘ol Rummy – should go straight to jail without passing Go instead of ‘the sack!

Let’s get this straight Larry – I heard the screams when the cluster bombs fell on Baghdad – I felt the pain as kids lost limbs playing with the dangling bomblets – I saw the kids in the kids in the cancer ward at Al-Mansour Pediatric Hospital, Iraq dying from playing with depleted shells. If that means nothing to you then nobody can help you – just live your life oblivious to that history – the only way Pal.

Cold breezes from St Louis.

“If something like that happens, will you reserve judgment until you know that it’s not the Quaker or the Scientologists?

Let me name someone who will also suspect Muslim extremists in such an event: David Cameron

And he will be the next prime minister (if you haven’t heard).”

Fortunately, he knows nothing. Goodnight, sweet dreams, and may your god go with you.

Sorry, Mark, really wanted to stop, but just read your last comment; and what I just said seems so crass. Sorry. Goodnight.

“Let’s get this straight Larry – I heard the screams when the cluster bombs fell on Baghdad – I felt the pain as kids lost limbs playing with the dangling bomblets – I saw the kids in the kids in the cancer ward at Al-Mansour Pediatric Hospital, Iraq dying from playing with depleted shells. If that means nothing to you then nobody can help you – just live your life oblivious to that history – the only way Pal.”

And were you remotely concerned with Hussein’s torture chambers?

“Larry I think it is about time you try and find another forum to trol.”

Awww, spoilsport ! It was just getting good.

I mean, if he really thinks that the education system of his country will provide any passing 11-year-old with all the information they need to know about making fission explosions, you can see how he’d have to worry about someone setting one off, can’t you ? It’s the tastiest wind-up I’ve met in quite a while, give him a big shiny gold trollstar.

“if he really thinks that the education system of his country will provide any passing 11-year-old with all the information they need to know about making fission explosions”

that’s not remotely what i wrote. also, i never relied on my education system to provide me with all the information that I came across

Thanks, a really interesting documentary.

*It should be required viewing for anyone with an interest in the “War on Terror”.*

I couldn’t agree more.

Arsalan.

Your idea that suicide bombers and other deranged lunatics are simply revolutionaries working on the behalf of the wretched of the Earth is belied by the fact that so many of their victims are desperately poor.

I have asked before what the Muslims in Pakistan watching a volleyball game did to deserve being blown up by a truck bomber but didn’t receive an answer. I am assuming it was because they had been excommunicated by the takfiris who didn’t consider them to be “real Muslims”.

Here’s a video clip of Chris Morris’ “jihadi comedy”:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/video/2010/jan/21/chris-morris-four-lions-sundance

David Kelly…

http://tinyurl.com/yaes2ta

@Mark Golding – Children of Iraq at January 23, 2010 11:26 PM

Well said. Have you signed this petition? Care when opening this page which shows the incinerated arms of Ali Abbas who lost his parents and many other members of his family in the explosion from a thermobaric type bomb which fell on his home.

The brave young man was the subject of a documentary on BBC1 the other night which showed how he is making his plans for an independent life without arms. Unbelievably he does not seem to be bitter or angry.

http://blairfoundation.wordpress.com/

PS If ever I go to St Louis I do not wish to meet the eponymous Larry.

Sorry missed out my name above. This must be the only blogsite where you can comment without undergoing a long rigmarole of registering. You can obviously comment without even leaving your name.

Just saw David Miliband at the end of Andrew Marr’s Sunday programme, saying that, “our greatest resource in Afghanistan is the Afghan people”. How bloody proprietorial. He repeated the blah-blah about being there until the Afghan people can defend themselves — which I find intensely hypocricial in the circumstances. Hypocritical and patronising, and a pack of lies.

Angry you are the one who believes each and every attack are the work of Muslims. Not us. So what you write is only of propaganda value when you read it.

By the way, the Prophet apparently said:

?I advise you ten things| Do not kill women or children or an aged, infirm person. Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees. Do not destroy an inhabited place. Do not slaughter sheep or camels except for food. Do not burn bees and do not scatter them. Do not steal from the booty, and do not be cowardly.”

And also:

Verse 42:40 “The recompense for an injury is an injury equal thereto (in degree): but if a person forgives and makes reconciliation, his reward is due from Allah: for (Allah) Loveth not those who do wrong.”

Whether people speak evil of you, in your presence or behind your back, or they do evil to you in either of those ways, all is known to Allah Almighty. It is not for you to punish. Your best course is not to do evil in your turn, but to do what will best repel the evil. Two evils do not make a good.”

And also:

A man came to the Prophet one day and said, “I want to perform Jihad [struggle].” Mohammad asked, “are your parents alive?,” and when the man said they were, he told him, “perform Jihad by taking care of them” (al-Bukhari).

So just like the IRA claiming to be Catholic, despite behaving not at all like Christians, people who kill at random are not, it could be argued, following the Prophet?

People who initiate or take part in wars of aggression — as opposed to wars of self-defense after being invaded or attacked — cannot accurately describe themselves as ‘Christian’. But of course, they do. And not only that, but claim to have God’s agreement/approval, it seems.

“So just like the IRA”

Could I remind folk that the IRA were not the only paramilitaries operating in Northern Ireland? Dublin was bombed no more than 100 yards from my office. And there is plenty of evidence that the security forces in Northern Ireland colluded with Loyalist paramilitaries (some of whom have only very recently disarmed) in their activities of murder and mayhem.

I have argued with Americans online who attempted to lecture me about the North, and who had never heard of the UDA, UFF or UVF, and had no idea what or who they were.

There is also a casual reference (even on TV three or four nights ago) to the Northern Ireland mess as a “religious war” which of course is complete rubbish. There was no war about religious differences. It was entirely political — between two groups who happened to be both Christian (in name, at least.)

Yes, dreoilin, good point: the IRA weren’t operating in a vacuum. Have you read Martin Dillon on the North? ‘The Shankill Butchers’ is one of the most chilling books about ‘loyalists’ I’ve read.

Interesting that people are trying to refer to it as a religious war now (icon shaking head in disbelief)

Hi tech,

I haven’t read Martin Dillon, no. But of course there were butchers on both sides. Vicious. Unfortunately memories are long up there and feelings run deep. Children born who never knew anything only the “Troubles” … I still think that the current peace in the North is very fragile. And at risk.

(If I disappear and don’t answer someone, it’s only that my threadbare connection has gone again.)

I corresponded for a while with an American writer (he blogs, often interestingly, at http://open.salon.com/blog/tom_cordle). It proved impossible to persuade him that the ‘troubles’ in Ireland were anything other than religious.

Whether war is ‘christian’ or not rather depends on which bit of the bible you’re looking at – I often feel that it is the peaceful christians who are the heterodox.

anyway I have just completed my forum, so if any of you want to continue discussion there without Angry and Larry sidetracking them, post topics for new discussion or anything else you can.

http://unite.iwannaforum.com/

What should I eat now, shall I buy some Chicken and chips? or cook something else?

this is probably my last chance to eat what I want, because she who must be obeyed is coming back tonight.

I can say with confidence that most Americans are taught that the Irish Troubles were the result of political and ethnic differences. In fact, we sometimes lose sight of the fact that the warring sides tended to have opposing religions.

However, you can’t ignore the religious issue, especially when both sides used this to cause even more division. Ian Paisley was associated with the most fundamentalist nutter university in America.

BTW, about the swinflu vaccine (while I don’t want to throw this whole thread “off”):

I wasn’t going to have anything to do with it, although I’m in an “at risk” group because of my heart condition. I’m very suspicious about the whole ‘pandemic’ and the likes of Baxter and others making a fortune — not forgetting Donald Rumsfeld and Tamiflu-that-doesn’t-work. But my sis-in-law told me she’s been flattened by swineflu for 5 days (hadn’t the strength to get out of bed to the loo) and that news more or less scared me into having the vaccine. I can’t afford to get a serious respiratory infection.

“Whether war is ‘christian’ or not rather depends on which bit of the bible you’re looking at”

Oh sure. But I’m thinking both of “thou shalt not kill” and the admonition to turn the other cheek. But turning the other cheek is hardly very practical — which I assume is why the Vatican produced their “just war” definition. (Didn’t they? I’m a long-lapsed Catholic!)

“she who must be obeyed is coming back tonight”

Make an omelette, Arsalan. They’re much easier than anyone thinks. My sons make them all the time. Add any filling you want.

My son used to throw any leftovers from the fridge into omelettes (including cooked potato) and call it a ‘Spanish omelette’. I never found out if there was any basis to the name!

my son demands omelette in the middle of the night, and we have to make him one.

He never cooks for himself.

I think that is because he is 4.

That reminds me, I need to buy some more eggs, good bye.

@dreoilin

Swine flu: best site for info is http://anthraxvaccine.blogspot.com/

Dig back into older posts for an interesting examination of the post-911 anthrax attacks.

aa~~

Looking at the first comment on this thread, I too was agreeably surprised by the documentary on Lawrence – rather faithful to Lawrence, and therefore surprisingly risqu? for the BEEB, ordinarily the most obedient of government servants.

From the ‘Introductory Chapter’ to ‘Seven Pillars of Wisdom’:

“When we won, it was charged against me that the British petrol royalties in Mesopotamia were become dubious, and French Colonial policy ruined in the Levant.

I am afraid that I hope so. We pay for these things too much in honour and in innocent lives. I went up the Tigris with one hundred Devon Territorials, young, clean, delightful fellows, full of the power of happiness and of making women and children glad. By them one saw vividly how great it was to be their kin, and English. And we were casting them by thousands into the fire to the worst of deaths, not to win the war but that the corn and rice and oil of Mesopotamia might be ours.”

I’ve always loved that ‘I’m afraid that I hope so’.

“I never found out if there was any basis to the name!”

There is – tortilla de patates, available on top of the bar top in any rural Spanish bar, fine hot or cold. I practically lived on the stuff for about two months.

http://secondhelping.com.au/feastonthis/?page_id=128

“”if he really thinks that the education system of his country will provide any passing 11-year-old with all the information they need to know about making fission explosions”

“that’s not remotely what i wrote. also, i never relied on my education system to provide me with all the information that I came across”.

True, you did say. You also did “book research”, and talked with “a working physicist”.

So you’re still trying to keep the central windup going, that you’re entitled to lay down the law based on knowing ‘more’ about the subject (than who, you didn’t say. Wisely) because of a “research project” you undertook aged 11 ? Did it never occur to you that there might be things They weren’t telling you ? How sweet.

I mean, you do explicitly mention a ‘fission device’ – that’s not wrapping lumps of DU round something that goes bang, that’s a fission device. Chain reactions, e = m by c squared, Hiroshima, all that.

George,

Thanks so much for the link to the Mail’s extraordinary and worrying decision from Hutton. I understand Norman, who I spoke to by phone recently, finds this ‘astonishing’ and more. I will talk to Norman again about raising the awareness of this dreadful decision, considering many eminent surgeons have expressed disbelief at the post-mortem conclusions.

“So you’re still trying to keep the central windup going, that you’re entitled to lay down the law based on knowing ‘more’ about the subject (than who, you didn’t say. Wisely) because of a “research project” you undertook aged 11 ? Did it never occur to you that there might be things They weren’t telling you ? How sweet.”

Fine. You’re misinterpreting what I wrote in the first place, but fine, I suppose I was laying down the law.

Did I think that there were things they weren’t telling me? Nope. We have libraries. Don’t you?

You seem to be from the UK – the UK can’t be as bad to you folks depict it. I know it must be a bit difficult to be schooled in the world of a state-financed Abrahamic god, but please don’t tell me that they’ve thrown science & technology out the window. It really can’t be that bad.

@George Dutton: Bloody hell thanks for that link.

http://tinyurl.com/yaes2ta

Mary,

Yes Darling I have signed.

Can anyone explain why Lord Hutton would have secretly banned reporting of Dr Kell’s post mortem details and other evidence for 70 years?

Why would it be neccessary to take such unusual action over a simple suicide?

Maybe eddie can explain what his new labour gangster mates have to hide?

Is there no way of wresting control of our country back from these evil people?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1245599/David-Kelly-post-mortem-kept-secret-70-years-doctors-accuse-Lord-Hutton-concealing-vital-information.html

Larry you are a twit, and the more you justify your position the more you reveal your ignorance.

Many nations have tried for many years to become nuclear powers. But instead of investing countless billions in that research, instead of attempting underground nuclear explosions, all they needed to do was walk in to an American library or try and got hold of Larry’s 5th grade homework.

Larry it is true that you can find the basic outlines of nuclear fission in a 5th grade science text book, but didn’t it cross your mind that the practice is more complex than that?

And the reason why they didn’t write more than just the basic outline is because the mathematical calculations needed are too complex for the minds of an 11 year old?

Larry I am someone who believes American are probably the most stupid and ignorant people on the face of the Earth. But even I am finding it hard to believe that someone even someone in America can be as stupid and as ignorant as you.

I am starting to think some of the post signed as you are by others who are trying to make fun of you, or maybe all the posts signed as Larry are by someone trying to make fun of how stupid and ignorant Americans are.

Larry,I really can’t believe your ignorance.

Larry this is an honest question.

Amongst your neighbors, friends and relatives, are you one of the clever ones, Stupid ones or are you about average?

Larry was this the Scientist you spoke to?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww

Mary,

Just as a side, is the ‘yes’ ‘remember me’ radio button active, if it is, try Google Chrome browser which is a simple download and install – much better than Internet explorer. Chrome has nice little thumbnails as ‘history’ -a visual reminder of your most visited sites.

“Many nations have tried for many years to become nuclear powers. But instead of investing countless billions in that research, instead of attempting underground nuclear explosions, all they needed to do was walk in to an American library or try and got hold of Larry’s 5th grade homework.”

OK, that’s actually quite funny – I’ll give you that.

But that’s not what I was claiming. I mentioned the library issue because someone above was suggesting that such information was kept away from us.

I think you’re missing the point that you need an enriched product for a fission bomb. That’s always been the case, and I prefaced everything I said with that point.

As to enrichment, it will certainly get easier as the years progress.

“Larry it is true that you can find the basic outlines of nuclear fission in a 5th grade science text book, ”

Again, that’s not remotely what I wrote. Of course such information is not in a 5th grade science textbook. I was talking about a science fair project, wherein part of the idea is to go beyond what’s in the textbook.

“You seem to be from the UK – the UK can’t be as bad to you folks depict it. I know it must be a bit difficult to be schooled in the world of a state-financed Abrahamic god, but please don’t tell me that they’ve thrown science & technology out the window. It really can’t be that bad.”

Fantastic, a nice shiny red herring. And very pretty it is, too.

My primary school “research project” was a really badly drawn three-stage rockets with Yuri Gagarin in the capsule. I read books for that, too.

“Larry I am someone who believes American are probably the most stupid and ignorant people on the face of the Earth.”

It would surprise me if there were a commenter at this blog who did NOT harbor such ignorant hatred.

“Fantastic, a nice shiny red herring. And very pretty it is, too.”

No red herrings from you above, Richard? No straw men?

“My primary school “research project” was a really badly drawn three-stage rockets with Yuri Gagarin in the capsule. I read books for that, too.”

How’d that work out for you, Richard? Did you make it into orbit? Didn’t you know that Gagarin’s rocket was not three-stage? Are you sure the government would allow you to have the full picture? Are you suggesting you’re so much smarter than other rocket engineers?*

* You see how this works.

Is this a cousin of yours, Arsalan Goldberg?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8b3vhTO248

“It would surprise me if there were a commenter at this blog who did NOT harbor such ignorant hatred”.

Not me Larry. I’ve met some very intelligent, well-informed and well-educated Americans. I also think Thomas Pynchon is probably the finest living writer in the English language.

I do think however that Americans are very ill-served by their system because it has been almost totally taken over by corporate interests. You pay all those taxes and what to do get in return? Most of it gets shovelled into the back pockets of the arms industry and the Federal Reserve.

Larry

Harbouring ignorant hatred.

By ‘ignorant’ you mean that we know stuff we’re not supposed to know because we have been to places and talked with people from outside the US of A. Unfortunately for you, by this definition our ‘ignorance’ is almost total. Blair is sweating, because this is not how colonialism is supposed to work. Alhamdulillah, the advance of technology has smashed open the secrets of the international colonial/criminal classes. Keep popping duds at us and we’ll keep lobbing RPGs of truth at you.

Enjoy the fireworks display. display.

“I do think however that Americans are very ill-served by their system because it has been almost totally taken over by corporate interests.”

No, it hasn’t. And to the extent that argument can be made, it can also be made of the UK.

“You pay all those taxes and what to do get in return?”

Plenty.

“Most of it gets shovelled into the back pockets of the arms industry and the Federal Reserve.”

Nope. Find me a pie chart. Also, anyone who brings up the Federal Reserve is likely someone who watches manipulative documentaries with wide eyes and a blank brain.

“How’d that work out for you, Richard? Did you make it into orbit?”

Of course not, any more than your device went off. That’s why I’d be very foolish to base a claim to special knowledge as a rocket-scientist on such “research”.

See ? The problems with the argument are blindingly obvious when it’s someone else making it.

Richard:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

“to the extent that argument can be made, it can also be made of the UK”.

Not quite. We still have our beloved NHS. Our education system, though not what it was, still accounts for a far higher proportion of government spending than in the US. On key indicators, such as adult literacy rates, the US lags behind many third world countries.

“Also, anyone who brings up the Federal Reserve…”

Are you suggesting that a significant proportion of your taxes do not go towards paying interest to the Fed for all the dollars it has printed?

“Not quite. We still have our beloved NHS. Our education system, though not what it was, still accounts for a far higher proportion of government spending than in the US. On key indicators, such as adult literacy rates, the US lags behind many third world countries.”

Your issue was with corporate interests. Other than the health care coverage issue, what does this have to do with whether or not America has been taken over by corporate interests?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

Well, yeah. I just thought you needed a straight man to bring out the full surreal humour of it.

Finished now, I’ll leave it there.

“Are you suggesting that a significant proportion of your taxes do not go towards paying interest to the Fed for all the dollars it has printed?”

So will EVERY modern conspiracy theory eventually show up on Craig Murray’s blog?

Next up – Roswell?

“Other than the health care coverage issue, what does this have to do with whether or not America has been taken over by corporate interests?”

Put simply, spending on sensible social projects such as health and education is squeezed to allow for an obscenely huge “defence” budget, which is of genuine benefit only to the arms industry.

“So will EVERY modern conspiracy theory eventually show up on Craig Murray’s blog?”

The history, status and role of the Fed is well-documented. Not quite sure what you’re getting at here.

MJ,

Once again, I think someone here should refrain from American right-wing populist conspiracy theories:

http://www.publiceye.org/conspire/flaherty/flaherty8.html

Larry,

I suspect you know me from WaPo – I have many American friends – spent a long time working in Harvard Conn.

I appreciated the amazing hospitality – feel sorry for majority of Americans who live in fear, in a police state. I am saying that with benevolence, not with malicious overtones.

I also say BEWARE to us Brits all this is on the horizon.

Americans complain of zero-tolerance rules in our schools. A young girl was kicked out of school because her Tweetie Bird key chain was deemed a weapon; is that just a bit rigid? Or expelling an Eagle Scout who inadvertently came to school with his Boy Scout axe in the trunk of his car after a Scout meeting the previous night?

In adulthood Americans are faced with Republican Sen. Rick Santorum’s expressed belief that the nuances of their sex lives ought to be subject to government regulation based on majority rule! In some states ?” Alabama, for instance ?” the “improper” use of a battery-operated device could land you in the pokey!

Then we arrive at the sanctity of home. The Brits castle, that has been the subject of a recent discussion on intruders and ‘reasonable force.’ In Covington, Ga., you are required by law to submit to government inspections of your home. They even measure the temperature inside your refrigerator! If you resist the inspection, you will be arrested and jailed while the government inspectors prowl through your stuff.

In government colleges and universities across the nation, students are subject to disciplinary action if they utter an “offensive” or “insensitive” thought.

The level of taxation burdening the average American family in 2003 is higher than that imposed by the British Crown in pre-revolutionary war America. Many Americans work into the month of June without earning one single penny for themselves. Americans are forced to “contribute” almost 15 percent of their earnings into a bankrupt income redistribution /vote-buying scheme that is sold to us as a retirement and insurance plan. The American government goes to extreme measures to make it as difficult as possible for folks to provide for the health-care needs of their families, preferring instead to build dependence on employers and government.

The American government can pry into your bank accounts without your knowledge or permission, and just recently tried to enact a program that would require bank or credit union to notify the government in the event folks engage in any economic activity that doesn’t track with your past behavior.

Remember, also, the forfeiture regulations. A U.S. senator introduced legislation that, if it had become law, would have permitted any local or federal law enforcement officer to seize your cash if he happened to find you carrying more than 10 grand in an airport, bus station, interstate highway or most other public places. No arrest, no questions, no charges … just take the money. The legislation failed, but police agencies seize cash from hapless citizens just the same.

Americans find evidence of government rigidity and oppression in their political lives too. Just try to get a third party on a ballot in almost any state. It’s difficult to impossible. Gerrymandering voters into congressional districts shaped like drunken tapeworms denies many voters an effective voice in Congress. And let’s not forget the Democrats’ efforts in 2000 to wipe out the votes of Americans serving abroad in the uniform of our armed forces.

Finally, what about the definition’s reference to “secret police?” Consider the IRS, the DEA and the ATF. The IRS, for instance, pays your neighbor or co-worker to spy on your economic and social behaviour.

All this from my American mates – Us Brits would hit the streets and sit down or someone would shout ‘Rubbish’ in Parliament. Magna Carta – curb the power of the King in favour of the people – and that is wot ‘Brit’ stands for!! So yes I feel soo sorry, truly sorrow for my America.

Mark,

That was just a big babble of British exceptionalist bullshit.

You got pretty much everything wrong.

“I suspect you know me from WaPo – I have many American friends – spent a long time working in Harvard Conn.”

No, you nutjob British nationalist, I don’t know you from WaPo.

What the hell is “Harvard Conn.”?

“In adulthood Americans are faced with Republican Sen. Rick Santorum’s expressed belief that the nuances of their sex lives ought to be subject to government regulation based on majority rule!”

Santorum was famously voted out. He’s no longer in office, you moron. (thanks for making this easy)

Plus, his beliefs would never have become legislation.

“Then we arrive at the sanctity of home. The Brits castle, that has been the subject of a recent discussion on intruders and ‘reasonable force.’ In Covington, Ga., you are required by law to submit to government inspections of your home. They even measure the temperature inside your refrigerator! If you resist the inspection, you will be arrested and jailed while the government inspectors prowl through your stuff.”

Yeah, I slightly remember some idiots on Fox News causing a stink about this a while ago. Not sure what it had to do with. I think it was just a matter of right-wing paranoia. Sound boring and stupid and Alex Jones-ish.

And again with the British nationalism!

“feel sorry for majority of Americans who live in fear, in a police state.”

If you’re a right-wing racial separatist living in an enclave in Montana, then you probably live in fear.

Otherwise it’s generally business as usual.

And by the way, Brits – what’s it like to have cameras breathing down your necks all the time?

“The IRS, for instance, pays your neighbor or co-worker to spy on your economic and social behaviour.”

Mark, are some of them lizard people?

Once again, you’re getting all of your information about America from right-wing American nuts. These people voted for Bush, but didn’t really want to, because he wasn’t right-wing enough. And again, these are your comrades-in-arms!

Mark, you know we have Google, right? I just googled one of your paragraphs (the “us” word tipped me off) and it’s been revealed that you plagiarized, without even bothering to change whole paragraphs, from World Net Daily.

Yep, right-wing loons and you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you realize those people probably wanted more bombs to rain down on Iraq?

As I said all this emailed from America so all lies then eh?

Mark, any thinking person can see that you’re a liar. Those weren’t emailed from your “American mates.”

You stole almost verbatim from http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=32543

And Mark, it wouldn’t reflect badly on me if other Americans are telling lies. I’m not a nationalist like you. Your mind is really stuck in the 19th century, isn’t it?

Mark, the following are Wikipedia summaries of some of the views of Neal Boortz, the writer from whom you plagiarized:

“Boortz tends to advocate Conservative platforms. Boortz’s post-9/11 politics include support for the US-led War on Terror, a more aggressive foreign policy,[27] and the USA Patriot Act.”

and

“Boortz has expressed a negative opinion about the lack of Muslim outrage for the actions of Muslim Terrorists and the riots that erupted in response to the Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy.[40] Media Matters reported that Boortz called the Islamic prophet Muhammad “just a phony rag-picker” and said it was “praiseworthy to recognize Islam as a religion of vicious, violent, bloodthirsty cretins.”"

BWWWWAAAAHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!

Yes I found the report from Neal Boortz. It says and I quote, ‘is an author and nationally syndicated libertarian talk-show host. Full disclosure compels him to reveal that he is also a “reformed” attorney who is being paid massive amounts of money in exchange for his promise not to actually practice law any more.

No right wing loon,

No – that’s not right-wing at all, is it, Mark?

Tell me – what else have you plagiarized lately and passed of as your work or the work of your “American mates”?

“I can say with confidence that most Americans are taught that the Irish Troubles were the result of political and ethnic differences. In fact, we sometimes lose sight of the fact that the warring sides tended to have opposing religions.”

Larry, Catholics and Protestants have the same religion (christianity? I should think there’s a wiki).

Of course, as you say, vicious men with guns or unscrupulous politicians, on both sides, use these labels to cause even more division. A habit easy to fall into, I see.

dreoilin; hope you’re wrong. Not sure you are, but think they’re concentrating on crime rather than sectarianism at the moment. Honestly, why don’t we lock all these stupid sad lost thugs – Irish, English, Welsh, Scottish, the lot – into Wembley stadium, and make them slug it out with marrows. The last one standing would win a ticket to an ashram in India, and the rest would be forcibly retrained as reflexologists.

PS Richard’s idea for transforming Afghanistan is growing on me.

Larry I would be proud if he were my cousin!

Anyway, that link you gave me doesn’t work in the UK.

This link works:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DabIO_gwRgo

“Larry, Catholics and Protestants have the same religion (christianity? I should think there’s a wiki).”

Dear god, what dumb assholes inhabit this blog. You’re intending to be clever but you’re not that clever.

Larry,

Right wing but no loon – looks like the piece was a powerful example from the right that presents a solid true picture of a corporate run country, especially from a man who tries to justify the actions of Bush and the Iraq war. Perhaps my American friends really had their finger on the button when they sent me that piece.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php/index.php?pageId=21150

“The “Threat” From Central Asia”

November 2, 2009

“Destabilizing Baluchistan, Fracturing Pakistan”

“The Triangle of Jundallah, the Taliban, and Sipah-e-Sahaba”…

http://tinyurl.com/y8mvvr9

By the way, are we finished with American right-wing conspiracies for the day?

Does anyone want to argue that Obama was born in Kenya?

Mark’s source (which he somehow turned into his “American mates”) – the World Net Daily – certainly pushed that story.

“Right wing but no loon – looks like the piece was a powerful example from the right that presents a solid true picture of a corporate run country, especially from a man who tries to justify the actions of Bush and the Iraq war. Perhaps my American friends really had their finger on the button when they sent me that piece.”

What an unbelievable loon you are!

Your American friends don’t exist!

You stole that text verbatim from the article at the World Net Daily!

And you don’t realize that there’s such a thing as the Google Machine!

BWWWWAAAHHHHHHHAAAAAHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Larry here is more from the man you call my cousin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MIeLoTJO8Q&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbBjLAE9WBQ&feature=related

Arsalan, just wondering – you previously displayed the name “Goldberg” – is that your actual last name?

(I don’t usually ask for people’s names, but you did have yourself identified as such).

Mark,

Whilst that was a pretty harsh description of the typical American way of life, I have read an even stronger critique from an American, who couldn’t take it any more and emigrated.

He wasn’t talking about the poorest in society, but about the much better off corporate worker.

He was quoting how poorly paid they were in real terms, the long hours they work such that on the few days holiday they get a year, few can even afford to travel outside of the State where they live, and how incredibly ignorant they were of the world outside of their little domain.

I replied, well the company I worked for gave me 34 paid holidays a year + 8 other national holidays + full company paid pension and it was normal for almost everyone in the UK to go away on holiday, to a foreign country at least once a year.

And so I never quite understood if America is the richest country in the World, how is it that Americans get treated worse than people in every other Developed country.

But the most devastating critique, comes from English people who travel independently and discover the difference between the richest and the poorest. The gap is enormous, probably as great as India, and that much of America is a third world nation even poorer than India in real terms of quality of life.

Tony

Larry,

Scan-Optics Inc Harvard Connecticut – USA

UK division – Capscan Limited Victoria LONDON

MD Mr Ronii Lewin my Jewish boss

Engineering Mark Golding

Now apologize to me or take your ball and leave!

Mark,

So, “Harvard Conn.” (where you claim to have worked) is Harvard, Connecticut?

There is no Harvard, Connecticut.

Why the fuck does it matter that your boss was Jewish? And why are you mentioning your non-existent Jewish boss at a non-existent company in a non-existent city?

“PS Richard’s idea for transforming Afghanistan is growing on me.”

That’s a very odd mental picture. Best keep still, then, or you’ll disturb the roots.

These Sunstein “gamers” are in their own peculiar little Derridean postmodern universe aren’t they?

They can shift more shit than Fisons,I reckon.

On the packet it says,”Made in Israel”.

They’re products of the abnormally large Israeli special school system.Along with the vaccine damage they probably sustained when young their rock bottom level of intellectual engagement is only to be expected.

The “gamers” are a product of the experiment in the spiritual and moral degradation of a people we call,”Israel”.

I have to admit Steelback does make some good points there.

Tony,

‘The gap is enormous’ so true, I was devastated by the slums I explored.

I was invited by an American family who could not afford health care, it was a defining moment, because although poor they gave me enormous hospitality and in return, after they gave me a guitar, asked me to play (in the garden on a hot summers day) the old London cockney songs – they sang enthusiastically ‘Roll out the barrel’ and a few I struggled to remember long into the night. Wonderful memories.

Oooh, an allegiance between the neo-Nazis and Larry, how exciting zzzzz

Larry, my previous post was what was known as ‘teasing’.

Larry,

Pedantic comes to mind – but yes Hartford Conn. – I apologize.

Wait, what’s my association with neo-Nazis? I was pointing out Mark’s getting in bed with the American right – did you pick up on that?

OK, so it was “Harvard” a few times and now it’s Hartford – you claim that you spent a long time working there.

So now you know the name of the city where you worked for a “long time.”

Wow.

Can you imagine how much abuse you would throw at an American who made the same silly mistake? Can you imagine how that would become part of your “I met an American” diatribe? Wouldn’t you then have a little joke about Americans not knowing the names of the cities where they work?

Hey, hey, so the nice American will not bother, right?

MJ: Federal Reserve – LOL!!!!1!

Mark Golding: Double LOL!!!1!

Calm down in here, will you… play nicely or everyone should take their balls and leave!

And regular posters who are interested in a civil debate are advised to leave the trolls alone. Trolls are advised to be nice if they genuinely want a debate.
p

Jon, so I take it you’re ok with the conspiracy-mongering, and the plagiarizing, right?

hemical ali is hanged when will war criminal tony blair will be put to gallows? include among those to eb doomed-after goign through abu gharibi style treatment-those companison of crime like bBc journalists, sky journalists and rupert murdocjh and ofocurse this criminal jack ripper straw. and let thse be judged not by kangaroo british court but by the iraqis and afgans who suffrerd fromt these animals.

some one wrote this about americans-this applies more to the british because atleast americans did nto really vote for fraudulent bush but the british did vote thrice for the war criminal tony blair harami-knwing fully well his crimes.

“And Americans are definitely at fault. Who do you think elects these people, the French?? Just how many French voted for Bush in 2000?? How about 2004??? Did the Swiss vote put Bush over the top then??? You guys are blind if you can’t see how the American people have gleefully baaaed their way into this morass happy to drive their wasteful Hummers and remain completely ignorant about the rest of the world.

When the world was saying that Saddam might not have WMDs, it was the US AND ONLY THE US (well, with the UK, Spain and Israel) that insisted on starting an illegal war. Americans were all for it. They were screaming in the streets for it. The rest of the world protested louder than ever before in 2003 AGAINST THE WAR and the US decided to go in anyway. If Americans weren’t behind Bush, there’s no way he would have been able to go against the entire world.

Americans are some of the most ignorant, stupid people on the planet. They have one of the most corrupt medias anyway, know very little about what really goes on in the world, love to flaunt their ignorance as some sort of richer-than-thou trophy that they don’t need to know what’s going on, and then spout idiotic crackpot theories as if they were facts even in the face of reality.

“The Jews are the only ones to blame” is pure racism. It would be a lot closer to the truth to say that “Americans are the only ones to blame,” but even that is far from the truth. Morons vote for morons and then, morons become elected. The easier to control the herd with.”