Yes indeed.

I can’t help but notice,increasingly in these last few months, Straw has been stumbling in his speech and employing the “you’ll have to ask someone else..or see someone else for those files/letters etc…”

Very very poor but very very telling.

Hmm. Who is “John” in this situation?

He rather seems to be saying: “we pay them handsomely to shut their traps”, which doesn’t say much for his beloved Establishment, does it?

Matt Kennard-oh yea he does Gardening programmes now.

Straw the serial liar went on to lie his way all the way to Hell and back.

As he got older lying on reflex got to be a bit more difficult.

That the crib sheets and autocue are no longer so readily to hand is sure to be a sign that the elites this guy sponged off and whose bidding he did all his political life have finally finished with him.

Sadly these elites have probably not yet finished with us and we can expect with full certainty that they have a replacement for Straw in position on the sub’s bench.

you got to.. ..toe the line?

..toe the US line?

..tow-rag!

..Tony?

Maybe he was going to say that you have got to admire him for risking his entire career?

Heh Apostate, tell us your thoughts on the Jews doing 911!

Larry,

Craig has just deleted your previous off-topic comment – yet you can’t take the hint. If I was him, I would be seriously considering banning you by other means, as your entire objective is not contribution but disruption.

Tony

Jack Straw is a man who supported a war not because he thought it was morally justified but out of loyalty to his party and leader. What sort of man is that?

Straw – march 2006

“the situation is very serious [in IRAQ]

“I actually left feeling optimistic…”

“..on the verge of a democratic breakthrough”

“but it is very serious [in Iraq]

“..grave danger of civil strife…”

“as long as the Iraqi government – (s)elected…”

So Mr straw from what you said it seems to me countries that illegally invade and murder thousands of children and maim, orphan and traumatise many more do so, ‘out of a mixture of principle and interest?”

“..we each bring something to the ‘party’”

You mean something like illegal death and destruction?

“We went into Iraq – - on the basis of United Nations Resolution”

So Mr Straw, we went into Iraq illegally then? It does not matter if there were 15 or 20 resolutions, none of them advocated force.

“you’ll have to go on the web site for that…” – because they [the soldiers] provide the detail.

Do you mean Mr Straw, the methods of torture?

At this point in the interview there follows a cold and chilling argument excusing the “gulag” and finger-pointing to the bad men as being “Afghanis.”

“you can’t discuss everything all the time in cabinet”

According to Clare Short, there was no real cabinet in the Blair government, where things got discussed.

“..that’s quite a separate issue [human rights] from whether a former ambassador should be allowed to behave this way.”

I understood Mr Straw that human rights was paramount for the highest representatives of government who typify an extension an extension of the policies enacted by that government, such as human rights and their abuses that are in conflict with an Internationally agreed norm.

“we’re bringing these wonderful things” [to Iraq]

You mean Mr Straw, a broken infra-structure such that polluted water or lack of clean water is causing disease (UNICEF) and death, especially in children.

“We didn’t by the way [supply weapons to Iraq]?

At the same time the Arab street wants many of the things that the West has…

You know Larry a wise Australian millionaire who made his money after taking a team of men up a mountain to mine copper ore, once said, Mark, if my horse throws me to the ground once, I always let it get back up, if it throws me twice, I shoot it.

You’ve have had your chance Larry, don’t moan if you get banned from here.

Perhaps the John to whom Straw was passing the buck was this unsavoury member of the gang of war criminals?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/feb/18/foreignpolicy.iraq

Of Uzbekistan

MK: What do you think of the regime there, though?

JS: Well we’ve got a lot of concerns about the Uzbek government and if you look in our Human Rights Report which I publish each year you’ll see that it’s spelt out. That’s never been the issue ?” we’ve made protests to the Uzbek government about human rights but that’s quite separate issue from whether a former ambassador should be allowed to behave in this way.

In other words, Jack Straw is happy to talk about concerns over human rights, even publish papers on it every year, but he’s not at all happy if anyone tries to do anything about it!

Human rights to people like him are just a game you pretend to care about.

Jack Straw, in his own words, is simply a fraudster and hypocrite.

His account of government is no more than that of rogues covering for eachother in their crimes.

1,240 FAMILIES flee Afghan fighting. Nowhere to go. AlJazeera.

Is it possible that Harold Wilson’s Labour party which survived Thatcher, with a name change, will now self-destruct at the hands of its oldest followers, the likes of Jack Straw?

Mark Golding @ 10.02

Your brutal horse story is truly disgusting, and your Australian millionnaire death-dealing friend is shown as being far from “wise” if you have correctly repeated his anecdote.

Around 6AM your time I heard BBC Radio4 advance publicity for Murder in Samarkand .

What’s all this big hoohaa about Israelis murdering the Hamas guy in Dubai?

They’ve been doing things like that for years, and it’s mostly covered up.

So. What’s different this time?

Why have we got video and details and even identities, all of a sudden?

Why are all the normally friendly fingers pointing at the Israelis?

Surely their mates are not turning against the Israelis.

Oh dear. I feel a conspiracy coming on. Fatah and the Israelis acting in consort, against Hamas.

The evil conjurer distracts again…

What did the FCO know about the murder in Dubai?

“According to a Dubai “source” of The Independent ?” readers will have to judge what this means ?” the security forces of the aforesaid emirate informed a “British diplomat” in Dubai (presumably the consul, since the embassy is in the capital of the United Arab Emirates, Abu Dhabi) of the UK passport details almost six days ago and “did not receive an appropriate reply”. If this is true ?” the Foreign Office will be wrathful in its denials ?” then why didn’t the British immediately express their outrage at the use of forged British passports and cough up details of the equally outrageous frauds a week ago? This misuse puts every British citizen at risk.

Yet the Foreign Office ?” so keen to warn British citizens of the dangers they face in the Middle East ?” sat on their large behind and did bugger all. I’m sorry. If they had the details, they had a duty to UK citizens to speak up. If they hadn’t got the details, they should have told us. But they were silent. Why? Was there a cold breeze coming beneath a closed door?”

“The Dubai authorities apparently gave the British the (allegedly) forged Irish passports under the misapprehension that Dublin was still a major city of the United Kingdom. Things, needless to say, changed in Dublin almost a hundred years ago ?” although how many readers can name the date of Dubai’s independence from British rule? ?” but this elementary mistake suggests that the Dubai version of events (the inexplicable failure of the British to explain their silence) may contain a distressing truth. Don’t we (the British? Gordon Brown? etc, etc) care when killers use supposedly British passports?

It is too soon to give a reply. But I should add that the Dubai authorities have other information which they have not yet revealed. The world awaits.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-passport-to-the-truth-in-dubai-remains-secret-1901735.html

Matt Kennard works for the FT.

http://www.thecommentfactory.com/author/matthew-kennard

@Barbara

Interesting comment, and I have just visited your website. You seem to me the sort of fanatic that is hell bent on supressing free speech in our political arena. Your blog is comparable to raving loony ante western jihadi ravings except you are obviously ante BNP. We live in a democracy, and as such even the BNP is given a voice as well as all the lunatic Islamic parties in the UK that want to carry coffins through WB.

Oh, by the way,I have happened to have shot several horses during my time in Australia.

@Anno 12.47am

Just one of these ‘displaced’ families. Look at the frightened face of the little boy lying on the pile of family possessions, the desperate father and the cold and the mud. Shocking. It should NOT be happening.

That child is OUR child.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDVdO_b0oDQ

Simple Simon,

Yes, another Israeli false-flag – conquer by deception. Be warned DC’s ‘Friends of Israel’ ultimately want Great Britain’s politicians under their spell aka America.

I learned this powerful lesson from WebCameron (any past posters back me up here?)

“you got to… yeah, that’s the issue there.”

This is a secret 60s language which uses a “music code”. You combine it with Beatles music and get

“you got to… yeah,yeah,yeah, that’s the issue there.”

I’m with Barbara. If his horse threw him twice he’d probably fitted the saddle badly. I’d take a horse over an Australian mining millionaire any day.

Anyway Mark, hardly your kind of analogy, I would have thought.

Frazer: to pretend the vicious, really mad, rantings of Apostate et al are anything like the thoughts of your normal deluded BNP voter is pushing it. I suppose it’s kind to listen when the vile bile stops (usually to launch on some cliched anti democratic rant) but don’t confuse the two. Look at the 9/11 thread if you want some choice examples. Nice that you’ve shot horses – wasn’t there a song about that?

Re (on topic) Straw; the man has clearly been heading for a breakdown for years.

Frazer, I normally love reading your posts, but if Barbara objects to the unnecessary killing of animals, then that is her right. You may have had to shoot your horses, but it is insensitive to parade it in front of her with the sole aim of provocation.

Meanwhile you are welcome to oppose the “no platform” policy, but even as an ardent supporter of free speech, I am truly worried about the media exposure given to the BNP, given that it creates a spike in support for their fascist ideas. Hope Not Hate is fairly mainstream here in the UK, and is not at all the extremist group you paint it as.

Seconded, Jon. Also, Frazer, the one ‘lunatic Islamic party’ which wanted to bring home the fact that people with dark skins have been dying in their hundreds of thousands, was banned. Their planned action might have been ‘provocative’, but it was peaceful. They welcomed journalists, rather than beating them up. And yet, they were banned.

“Re (on topic) Straw; the man has clearly been heading for a breakdown for years.”–Technicolour

Is that sarcasm, or are you serious? I thought he looked very uncomfortable at Chilcot the second time, but not about to ‘lose it’.

As for the Dubai authorities and Dublin being a major British city, I’m amused. Largely because it wasn’t a few random citizens but the “Dubai authorities” who are supposed to have said that. I’ve dealt with ill-informed right-wingers in the USA who tried to rile me by referring to me as a ‘subject of the Queen’. I had to refer them to a political map to show them that there was an Irish Republic, and that Belfast wasn’t in it. One does wonder what Fox News does for the American people. (Or just how badly their standards of education have fallen.)

“They welcomed journalists, rather than beating them up. And yet, they were banned.”

Are you referring to the group who wanted to march in Wootton Bassett?

“as well as all the lunatic Islamic parties in the UK that want to carry coffins through WB.”

Ah, I missed that, sorry. And I thought that whole affair was very badly handled.

Hey dreoilin. No, I was serious. He confessed to having bad dreams about the invasion in 2005, I think. That’s years after he helped start it. Since then, he’s looked to me like a man in desperate internal denial. Unlike Blair, who looks like a man who has nothing left internally, just a shell. Could be wrong, of course.

Yes, Islam4UK were the group who wanted to march through Wootton Bassett. For Daily Mash take (often rather better than the news):

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/war/islam4uk-changes-name-to-brian-thompson-201001122371/

Not that there is anything wrong with being fat, bald, or white, per se. Some of my best friends etc (though they are really more a pink colour).

“I’ve dealt with ill-informed right-wingers in the USA who tried to rile me by referring to me as a ‘subject of the Queen’. I had to refer them to a political map to show them that there was an Irish Republic, and that Belfast wasn’t in it. One does wonder what Fox News does for the American people. (Or just how badly their standards of education have fallen.)”

dreoilin, apparently some Dubai authorities made a mistake and you have to make a comment about Americans? OK, so now I get where your inclinations on another thread come from. Just an irrational desire to harbor hatred for over 300 million people. Because you need that hatred.

I previously lived in Queens among a lot of Irish. I met a number of ill-informed and silly Irish people. Do you know what that told me about Irish people in general?

Absolutely nothing.

Go away, Larry. Wildly attacking dreoilin for her experience is ridiculous. Your conclusions are ridiculous. I would not shoot you, and I would probably rather spend (a small amount of) time with you than apostate, but not with this rubbish and not on this board.

Although we know there’s at least one “ill-informed and silly” American in St Louis, I’m sure most commenters here are too sensible to draw any broader conclusions from that.

Re They Shoot Horses Don’t They.

People actually breed sheep and other animals, purely so that they can kill them, and wear their skins to keep warm. Not only that (and I realise that this may be censored) they actually eat them as well.

Standards of morality change from time to time, place to place and culture to culture. But we do live in a natural world, that only works because predators cull the herd.

Its only humans that do it to themselves though.

You can read the strangest things in the Daily Mail. They even have articles by Melanie Phillips about the unmentionable events in New York in 2001.

“Jack Straw ‘should quit’ over his role in Iraq

By Daily Mail Reporter

Last updated at 8:08 AM on 11th February 2010

Jack Straw

Under fire: Jack Straw has been accused of breaking the ministerial code of conduct before the Iraq war

Jack Straw was facing a top-level investigation and calls to resign last night amid claims that he broke the ministerial code of conduct before the invasion of Iraq.

The Liberal Democrats have asked Cabinet Secretary Sir Gus O’Donnell to investigate evidence presented to the Chilcot Inquiry that Mr Straw, who was then Foreign Secretary, pressured Attorney General Lord Goldsmith not to give his full legal advice to the Cabinet.

Foreign Affairs spokesman Ed Davey said Mr Straw should resign for breaching the code, misleading Parliament and then, in his current role as Justice Secretary, preventing the release of relevant Cabinet papers from 2003.

A recently declassified document released to the Chilcot Inquiry details how Mr Straw persuaded Lord Goldsmith not to lay out to the Cabinet all his doubts about the legality of the war but to provide a short summary instead.

The Code of Conduct states: ‘When advice from the Law Officers is included in correspondence between Ministers, or in papers for the cabinet, the conclusions may, if necessary, be summarised but, if this is done, the complete text of the advice should be attached’.

Last night a spokesman for Mr Straw said he was confident he had not broken the ministerial code and would co-operate fully with any inquiry by Sir Gus.

Tony

“That is rather like Larry’s ‘I lived with the Irish in Queens’, no?”

No, you silly goose. I’m saying the exact opposite. I’m saying that living among the Irish (and practically living in Ireland, as my corner pub was completely Irish and well-populated) does not lead me to the conclusion that I can make harsh judgments about the Irish in general.

I certainly don’t think it qualifies me as having special knowledge on Irish history.

Bit of a comment fail on your part, eh, Merkin?

Yes, I think Straw knows he’s in the firing line. I wonder if he has anything like Blair’s protective riches (face of Louis Vuitton, rep of various corporations, Middle East Peace envoy (inset hysterical laughter) and other stuff I can’t be bothered to look up) Blair has something like 8 houses: I bet Straw hasn’t.

Tony: You don’t need to kill a sheep to get its wool.

Some people actually …eat them. Never.

And some people apparently are prepared to shoot a horse because they are shit at riding. There you go.

Straw has actually gone on the defensive recently, or you could say the attack. And I don’t believe its anything to do with the fact that he has got more Muslims, that Khazars in his constituency.

I reckon its because he has got a bit of a conscience, and he really does want magistrates to start the process of prosecuting visiting war criminals.

His logic probably runs something like, well if I’m going down I’m going to take those bastards with me.

I can’t of course mention, the group who say that until the law is changed, they won’t travel to the UK and donate any more money supporting Gilad Atzmon in his musical career – cos they don’t like sax.

Tony

Given the coverage of every death of every British soldier (and American soldier, at least on Sky News?) I confess to being tempted frequently to throw something at the TV.

If one is invading other sovereign countries, surely one expects to have such casualties. But each death is treated on TV as some ‘unfair’ and ‘unwarranted’ tragedy. It’s in the tone of voice and the approach. I can’t fathom it.

To ban the Muslim march was callous and inhumane, IMO — and also the worst PR move the Government could have made regarding Wootton Bassett. But I don’t know all the details, i.e. whether the organising group was entirely peaceful in their plans. I thought they were.

————

Larry seems to have missed the fact that I referred to some “ill-informed right-wingers” and to “Fox News”. He’s now talking about “hatred for over 300 million people”. Typical.

———–

“Its only humans that do it to themselves though.”–Tony

How true. And it’s our species that invented torture and took it to the most “refined” levels. That’s civilization for you.

“(though they are really more a pink colour)”

Steve Biko, ‘Cry Freedom’. Made me hoot.

dreoilin, well now you say “some”. Can you even recognize a hasty generalization? Go re-read your anti-American silliness, keying off something that had to do with Dubai. Are you really saying that you were just talking about “some” Americans?

Typical.

“Are you really saying that you were just talking about “some” Americans?”

Larry, I do believe it would be rather difficult to engage with 300 million people on the net, don’t you? I’ve already told you on that “other” thread that you spend half your time putting words into people’s mouths.

I have *dozens* of relatives and numerous friends in the USA. Do I think they’re all stupid? No I don’t. Get a grip, for heaven’s sake.

And it’s not “anti-American silliness” when I quote right-wingers in the USA who have no idea that Ireland is now independent. They didn’t even know the correct name for my country.

You are aware of the research that said that Fox viewers were likely to be the least-informed Americans? And that the more Fox News they watch the worse-informed they are? I’m sure you’ve read it. Now go away, you’re annoying me.

Barbara,

I’m sorry if you found my horse ‘anecdote’ brutal and disgusting, but I have to note your love of T-Force and their top secret activities.

May I remind you that many scientist were abducted from their homes in Magdeburg, having to leave wives and children behind. While they were paid 15s for their knowledge and work, nothing was sent to support their families.

According to recently declassified top secret documents many of these scientists were involved in the manufacture of chemical warfare gases and certainly the manufacture of sarin gas.

Records show that the origins of Porton Down physiological experiments were based on the work of these scientists involved in the physiological trials of chemical warfare gases which had been conducted at concentration camps.

An anecdote account of killing a horse palls into insignificance compared to your blessing for the unit.

Mark, can you be bothered to quote Barbara’s support for Tforce (what is that?) please.

Otherwise, two wrongs don’t make a right, huh.

“Nice that you’ve shot horses – wasn’t there a song about that?”

A movie, actually – and a very good one. A satire on capitalism, some say. Having ranted on another thread about the decline of the American cinema perhaps I should give credit there. I might also recommend ‘Wrestler’ although it’s unremittingly depressing.

In an attempt to recover my faith in humanity I’m retracing my steps (like Wile E Coyote trying to get back to the cliff edge having run over it) by ordering DVDs of Le Grand Meaulnes and Manon des Sources. Anyone seen Saura’s Carmen? Wow.

I don’t get this anxiety about the BNP. One bunch of fascists is already running the country – why worry about another that isn’t?

Vronsky: The BNP leadership lie. Their existence in a democracy is a lie: they want division, fear and hatred, where true democracy unites. The true views of the Labour Party leadership are not “kill all Muslims” and I doubt that Cameron is secretly thinking “Hitler is my hero”. When Blair squirms over the Iraq tragedy, he is not thinking “yeah, but it was great to kill them”. When Griffin squirms over the Holocaust he is thinking “and as a man who approves of Mein Kampf I consider it a good thing”.

Thta;s the problem with the BNP.

P Vronsky: it was also a song. A terrible, teeth gritting song, reflecting the times, admittedly.

Re the book ‘Le Grand Meulnes’: it is one of my favourites, and is amazing; will check out the film.

Me I am currently watching The Incredibles and A Night in The Museum 2. But still.

No Technicolour, ‘two wrongs don’t make right’ – but I had the courtesy to say ‘sorry’ Huh? Where do your priorities lie?

Mark, my priorities generally lie in the direction of establishing facts. I asked you for some.

Saying ‘sorry, but you did this completely different thing’ might be acceptable to Barbara, of course.

In my experience, the BNP are a seriously over-rated bunch of mainly harmless clowns. Sure they are racist twats, but they are wide open to being wound up about that, such they admit their own stupidity.

The BNP as an organisation, have obviously caused some trouble and discontent and generated such hatred that some people go to the lengths of creating websites the content of which is entirely negative about the BNP but says nothing positive about anything.

I am unaware of the BNP being responsible for anyone’s death, though I admit such a thing maybe entirely possible.

Now contrast the BNP with some Labour MP’s who knew that Blair was lying, and were 100% personally opposed to War in Iraq, as were the vast majority of the people who elected them, yet still voted for War – simply to save their cushy jobs, lifestyles, ego’s and expenses.

It is these scum within the labour party, that are responsible for Millions of innocent deaths.

Sure the Tory scum are responsible too, but everyone knew how they would vote.

Compared with these people, the BNP are like harmless village clowns.

Its not the BNP that should be strung up, its the people responsible for Illegal War, Mass Genocide and Torture.

Tony

“true democracy unites”

Does it? I thought it merely strove to give appropriate weight to all the divisions.

@technicolour

It might be that ‘kill all Muslims’ is not the view of the Labour Party, but it is difficult to infer any view whatever from their pronouncements. I therefore (like most people here) infer from their actions, and their actions are fascist. I really don’t care to debate the theological differences between the various cults and septs of fascism – if you don’t like cheese, which cheese doesn’t matter.

Glad you enjoyed ‘Le Grand Meaulnes’ – me too, though I couldn’t help comparing it in my mind with ‘Catcher in the Rye’. Troubled French youth appear to behave differently from troubled American youth – Holden Caulfield would never have stood for all that nonsense. English equivalent of Meaulnes: ‘Eric, or Little by Little’. The virtuous die of mysterious fevers and we are left to presume that the bad guys did just fine. Back to fascism again.

..and there is Tony saying it more clearly.

“True democracy unites”, in the sense that the divisions can be united in their support for appropriate representation, ie they accept that their own opinion is just one facet of the whole. Therefore, they do not lie about their position to garner undeserved support.

“Le Grand Meulnes” or “The Lost Domain” – what a wonderful book.

Catcher in the Rye v The Lost Domain (how I originally read it, thanks Clark). Autre temps, autre moeurs, I think. Also, other writer, other sensitivities.

Tony, currently the BNP may indeed be like ‘harmless village clowns’. The fact that racist attacks go up whenever they have a victory is not entirely harmless, though, is it? And what do you think they’d be like, if they actually had any power? I know this is way down the line (30 years?). Do you think they’d be nice? Do you think you’d be happy, if you were a Muslim or an Afro-Caribbean, or Jewish, that they were able to represented in out mainstream?

The terrible – I use the word advisedly – thing about New Labour is that they have scooped the heart out of common political decency. That is why most people initially voted for a Labour government, only to be let down (small phrase, comparative to the effect).

True about democracy, again thanks, Clark.

barbara,

“Yeah, sorry, we shouldn’t shoot horses, but I’d be glad to get rid of Larry”!

“Le Grand Meulnes” has a chapter called “The Carriage Returns”, which Tony_opmoc sometimes reminds me of…

Disclaimer,

I have started drinking alcohol, and will increasingly make even less sense, but I guess I should say that I have spent a lot of time over the past couple of years or so talking to Americans and have generally found them intelligent, polite and exceedingly tolerant of my views that are occasionaly diametrically opposed to theirs

And have done so again

“I realise that my economic view of the World is completely unconventional and everyone thinks I am mad, however…

“The Richest 1% Have Captured America’s Wealth”, except it is not just America’s Wealth, but the entire World’s.

Take a look around, and you will find that virtually every country in the World, and the vast majority of ordinary people are in enormous debt or have been robbed blind in one way or another.

And the Richest 1% are not going to give it back. It is effectively DEAD MONEY ?” who’s only representation is in vast strings of numbers in computer registers. It ain’t doing nothing and it ain’t going anywhere.

It is the equivalent of 1% of the World stealing the entire Fresh Water supply of the World and hoarding it in vast reservoirs so they can go fishing ?” and No you can’t have any of it. The water is ours ?” and you ain’t having it…

Of course a major problem is that the richest 1% are in Control of the Governments across the World too, and they say ?” No you can’t do that. The people must starve to death. They can’t have any water and they can’t have any money.

Now Governments across the World have a very simple solution, that the 99% of us must tell them too do, otherwise we will just fuckin … . them.

Bring on the Rain.

They ain’t going to give the money back.

So take Responsibility

Governments all Over The World Have To Form Their Own Banks and Issue Their Own Money.

Now they are frightened to do so because if just one Government does this in isolation like Germany after WW1 ?” then they create hyper-inflation.

But where classical economic theory is valid if you are talking about just individual countries ?” or even individual households or individual small companies, classical economic theory does not apply in the current situation when every country is in the same position of having enormous debt to this 1%.

So the Governments just tell them to Fuck Off and Die.

And we start again with New Money ?” across The World.

There will be no hyper-inflation.

We just use money for the only purpose for which it is intended.

That is to motivate people to do useful work.

There is lots of work that needs to be done.

It can’t be that difficult

Just Fucking Do It

Gordon Brown The British Prime Minister might have no social skills whatsoever, but that’s what he did in October 2008, and the UK is nowhere near as fucked over as the US is.

I read stuff on here and elsewhere in America about what is happenning to ordinary Americans losing their homes and going hungry and I just CRY for You.

Tony

Tony_opmoc

the figures linked are for the UK only, and only up to 2003, but the trend is only too clear:

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=2

Yeah, somehow, we need to win back democracy. The likes of Blair and Cameron do NOT represent ordinary people.

Some of my musician friends are even crazier than I am.

This guy who I have known for about 5 years who doesn’t have a computer on principle just phoned me up about his crazy cats.

He asked me where he could buy it locally.

So I searched and told him, and gave him the prices.

And found that is much cheaper buying it on the internet.

But I said are you sure you want this?

He said yes – my cats are driving me crazy – and it will calm them down.

But I said – aren’t you concerned what it might do to you?

So I have ordered this thing for him.

You plug it into the mains and it comes with a bottle of chemicals that fills the entire home with these calming fumes.

I said aren’t you worried – that if this thing works – it might calm you down and make you impotent or give you cancer?

But no he is not concerned about that, he is just concerned about calming his cats down.

His latest girlfriend is a bit of a stormer.

Tony

yeah Tony blah blah address the points..

dreoilin, go read again your posting that keyed off Dubai authorities. You had to use it to make a generalization about the United States (“(Or just how badly their standards of education have fallen.)”)

You made a sweeping generalization based on having met 2 or 3 Americans who said a stupid thing (and I think I’m being generous there), and then you simply denied that you did it.

Clark,

In 1962, we had serious money exchange controls. Whilst we were skint, My Mum had some rich Scottish relations – and her cousin sent her some money – and said go on holiday around Europe..

So we did…

A bit like the Royle Family Christmas Show…

When we got as far as Geneva on the bus, we ran out of money.

And we got interviewed by the Swiss authorities, and my Dad managed to get some more money out of Oldham.

He then bought an Omega watch on the Street.

But it was in 1962, and it was a genuine Omega watch and worked until the Day he died.

It was an Automatic.

We got as far as Diano Marina in Italy

And then we came back

Its funny the things you can achieve with fuck all

Tony

A few years ago I attended a cocktail party in San Diego. Most of my family are there now, but of course they have cascaded four generations, and all are American. I was there with my sister – we are still Scottish. The guests at the party were fun and interesting people – just as you would find anywhere on the planet. And as at any party on the planet, a larry will turn up. Said the larry to my sister (a graduate in Eng Lit, who teaches English as a foreign language) – ‘Woah! Ya Scats? Ya talk great English!’ Said my sister to the larry: ‘I’m afraid I can’t return the compliment.’

We’ll be back in San Diego this July and I expect to have a lot of fun. Hopefully we’ll avoid the larries.

technic,our,

You never answered my question.

I did keep asking you, and all I got was bluster in response.

So can you answer my question?

What exactly were you doing there?

You know

NWFP

Why didn’t you simply answer the question?

What have you got to hide?

I am a simple soul, and I have no secrets.

I have nothing to hide, because I haven’t done anything to be ashamed of, or if I have I confess and say sorry, and I am forgiven.

I always try and make the peace, and sometimes say sorry just because it is the easiest way forward.

Both my wife and I get seriously emotionally dumped on by our friends when their lives are falling apart – and we do our best

So you are like an inquistor, yet reveal nothing about yourself.

You see I don’t give a shit what you were doing there – but I did detect a late night conversation between you and some others on here which was as if you were speaking to them as if no one else was listening

He replied with something like that was – and the word was not brave – as if you were a journalist – but as if you were exceedingly well protected. My friend has gone there and done it with no protection whatsoever

So answer my Fucking Question.

What were you doing there?

Tony

“Control freaks want web licences to end bloggers’ anonymity ?” be very afraid”

censorship + control of the internet.

http://tinyurl.com/ygewu8k

Vronsky,

Likewise, when I’m in Britain or on the continent, I try to avoid British people who make the “I met an American once” argument. However, it’s impossible.

I’ve also increasingly met Brits expressing flat-out racism. I also like to avoid those people.

Ultimately I don’t act like your sister and take pride in my rudeness to dumb people. I just let it go.

Good volley off thread. If you sold just the horses grazing in the English countryside, let alone the 4 x 4s of the owners, you would recoup the national debt in a trice. But it has to burdened onto the under average wagers, because it doesn’t do to upset the self-made people, especially when they are being wooed by DC’s toffs to join an illegal hunt, otherwise known as a general election. We love our envy of the rich in the UK, even as we love rubbing those less well off than us in places like Afghanistan’s noses in the shit.

Gordon Brown may not hate Muslims, but he always savours the power of military strength, over his invented enemies, by a flick of the prime Ministerial chin. Like a pit bull wrestling down urban trees and priding itself for not hiding the bones of mauled infants. ‘I could do so much more than this if I wished.’

Come to think of it, that sums up Jack Straw. They have the smirk of satisfaction that others, Dostum, Karimov, Netanyahu ( surely a horse’s name ) will continue to do their murders for them. And they can live into a ripe old age, swathed in honours and their British blood lust assuaged, and even a small blue plaque on the door of hell, ‘Tony Blair lived here from the end of time to forever. Prime Minister.UK.’ in white porcelain.

dreoilin,

It ain’t going to happen.

You express your heart and soul on here. I know nothing about you except what you have said.

I think you are female and live in Ireland.

I could however be wrong.

Did I mention that my Son who is only 21 years old now, has been offering Full Internet TV Services to Peru for the last few years?

And has travelled into London recently, and is considering massive expansion with his new partner.

He has got Many Thousands of Customers all over The World, and the only ones he has given information to the security services and the police, are the ones that have attempted serious internet crime – like Mass Denial of Service Attacks – and he has become quite an expert at this kind of Defence From Attack, and sometimes The Security Services/Police contact him warning of a potential threat and asking him if he has detected anything. Sometimes this is by phone call and he sensibly determines their Real Authority by Phoning Them Back at The Appropriate Telephone Number And Asking For Them By Name

The Intenet is Safe and Will Remain That Way. If You Want To Remain Anonymous and Are Doing Nothing Illegal Then You Will.

Meanwhile The Information on The Criminals is Being Collected and Will Be Used To Prosecute Them.

The Teenage Kid Hackers Merely Get a Visit From Their Local Policeman – and Tell Their Dad, That Their Son is Being a Naughty Boy and If He Doesn’t Stop It, We will Export Him with Gary McKinnon to Guantanamo Bay

Tony

Dreoilin,

it’s ironic. Everywhere you go on the Internet, you’re tracked, using cookies, LSOs and recorded IP addresses. You are tracked by commercial concerns, who build up profiles on you, and sell them. That’s where spam comes from. The Government CAN access this info, but they don’t, unless a crime is committed. I suppose they were bound to get jealous eventually.

Check this:

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html

Damn. I left an ‘a’ out of ‘Meaulnes’, twice. I never notice these things until it’s too late.

Good point dreoilin ISP’s are being asked to ‘police’ their networks and issue ‘surfing’ bans in a variety of ways such as a points system. Too many points for excessive ‘file sharing’ could mean a one year ban.

A waste of time and money in my opinion because even 8yr old computer buffs will find a way round. I remember my son telling me with pride how he bypassed the blocks on social network sites at school, he was/is a great Bebo/MSN fan.

Another recent hang-up was DeepWeb or DarkNet which can only be accessed with special software and is not visible to normal search engines and browsers. It was once thought to contain all sorts of evil – but if the truth is known it is the big commercial enterprises where the majority of illicit content comes from, and they need to be out on the open web; it is these fraudsters that need to be targeted not the likes of anonymous bloggers.

New Labour definition of a ‘measured response’: we could have nuked the f****rs if we wanted, but we preferred watching their families’ terrified faces on our televisions, knowing that by the time this parliament is over, they will be buried, widowed or orphaned and their menfolk gunned down by machine guns in concentration camps by ‘Afghans’, Dostum and other Obama mercenaries.

Maybe we would be better off with the toffs, who get some of their blood-lust sorted hunting foxes over hedges and breaking their own necks. At least they know what to do with power, instead of just claiming expenses and pulling legs off flies.

Tony_opmoc,

the sticking point is copyright and “Intelectual Property Rights”. People are copying DVDs and music, and not paying the big corps, and they don’t like it.

Big Media will build the bandwagon, and Government will be invited aboard, as they make the laws. The golden age we are enjoying is limited.

It probably was a bit like a scene from the Film “Catch Me if You Can”, except he had done absolutely Nothing Wrong and Wasn’t Suited Up Much – Well He Didn’t Wear a Tie.

So they agreed to the meeting, and he went their on Monday or Tuesday at 11:00am near London Bridge

And he explained the detail of what he wanted in these really plush offices

And at first they didn’t understand, and thought he had got the numbers wrong by 10 or 100 or 1000

But he said – “No – it has got to be THAT Fast…”

They thought

“WTF Is He Doing?”

“He Can’t Do That”

They Thought

“You are Only a Spotty Teenager”

Even I have said – he must be mad…

If he doesn’t get the new quality customers his company is going to go bust

He said – “Dad I am full to capacity”

I said well O.K.

What are the Business Rates?

He told me

And I thought

fuckin hell, we will have to start charging him for his board and lodgings

Tony

‘The Teenage Kid Hackers Merely Get a Visit From Their Local Policeman – and Tell Their Dad, That Their Son is Being a Naughty Boy and If He Doesn’t Stop It, We will Export Him with Gary McKinnon to Guantanamo Bay’

That is a gem Tony, I also have a great deal of sympathy for Gary.

Anno,

it’s funny you should say that. Back in 1997, just after Labour got in, the mother of my girlfriend at that time said “There’ll be war now, the Labour party are the war party”.

“Is it worth it,

A new winter coat and shoes for the wife,

And a bicycle on the boy’s birthday…”

damn – won’t let me post – problem loading page

Clark,

Over the last 10 years, I have bought a lot of music, around 80% from the Music Publishers…

Yet I have bought around 20% direct from the bands at their gigs…

And sometimes I have been so inspired by them (both young and old, that I have asked them if I can record their next gig with cameras and microphones – and I have even asked for a sound feed from their mixer desks….

And I give them the results

And they say – can you edit it for us and make it pretty and produce loads of copies in pretty well decorated cases?

And I say Fuck Off

Do it yourselves

Its really fucking hard videoing a gig – and I do not do editing (much)

but sometimes have achieved some rather good results that meant that the band got lots more gigs and other stuff

I have always given it away for free, and rarely do it now, maybe two or three times a year.

I ask nothing in return

But it is totally WONDERFUL when they – The Young Musicians, Particularly, Achieve Some Success

Tony

And I have asked my daughter to bring my guitar and kit back from University if she is coming home this week like she said whe was – cos its a study week and she ain’t got any lectures – cos

We have some friends staying over this weekend and we may have a party…

She can have it back on Sunday

And I mentioned this to my mate…

He said – you can have my guitar and kit if you want…

I said no we were just planning on a small party – about 10-20

Now I do realise that most people who read Craig Murray’s website will not realise, that whilst occasionally it is crap, cos you are not in the mood or the band aren’t – or you have got some vast negative real emotion going through your head that you can’t shake off…that going to a live performance it sometimes just doesn’t work…

But sometimes, quite often actually, it is nearly as good as screwing a thermal.

Now screwing a thermal is something you can only do if your learn to fly without power

Tony

So why are these American Kids Playing The Pixies on My Guitar?

She said – They Even Went WOW

This a Real English Old House

100 Years Old

With All The Original Features

And They Were Taking Photographs

We weren’t there

We were down our local pub, past closing time

And they wouldn’t let them in

I think they are in France now

Which I don’t mind

But I would like my guitar back by Saturday Night – Or Early Sunday Morning

If You Can Play The Fucking Thing Then You Are More Than Welcome

And even if you can’t – you are welcome anyway

The chances are that someone will turn up to show you how its done

Tony

One thing I have read in none of our media today – maybe I missed it.

If the Israelis took such joy in falsifying British passports so brazenly for their false-flag assassination op in Dubai, who is to say something similar might not have happened on 9-11 in New York? Not British passports that time, but maybe a similar pattern of fictitious patsies set up by other parties.

And I will carry On

And on

Because my name is Tony

And that is all

It takes, OK

Whatever you People think

Ok

“dreoilin, go read again your posting that keyed off Dubai authorities.”–Larry

I don’t need to re-read anything, Larry, I always know what I post.

(“(Or just how badly their standards of education have fallen.)”)

It’s common knowledge that standards have fallen, especially in maths and science. I’m surprised you haven’t read that. Unless you’re a Fox fan. I’ve got you two links. You can find the rest yourself.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/496867/american_students_are_falling_behind.html

http://www-users.math.umd.edu/~dac/650/vernillepaper.html

Here’s an extract:

“An increase in H-1B workers being utilized in U.S IT corporations in recent years tells tale of the poor standards of education U.S graduates are receiving. They are ill prepared, and ill qualified to find a position, and to contribute anything significant to the country. This relates to the fields of electronics development, engineering, and medical research as well.”

Tony,

That story also made headline news on the UK music Radio Station I Was Listening To tonight

And I read more of your website, and the people who had linked to it and what they said and thought and some guy was crying and I was too

Masters Of War

Come you masters of war

You that build all the guns

You that build the death planes

You that build the big bombs

You that hide behind walls

You that hide behind desks

I just want you to know

I can see through your masks

You that never done nothin’

But build to destroy

You play with my world

Like it’s your little toy

You put a gun in my hand

And you hide from my eyes

And you turn and run farther

When the fast bullets fly

Like Judas of old

You lie and deceive

A world war can be won

You want me to believe

But I see through your eyes

And I see through your brain

Like I see through the water

That runs down my drain

You fasten the triggers

For the others to fire

Then you set back and watch

When the death count gets higher

You hide in your mansion

As young people’s blood

Flows out of their bodies

And is buried in the mud

You’ve thrown the worst fear

That can ever be hurled

Fear to bring children

Into the world

For threatening my baby

Unborn and unnamed

You ain’t worth the blood

That runs in your veins

How much do I know

To talk out of turn

You might say that I’m young

You might say I’m unlearned

But there’s one thing I know

Though I’m younger than you

Even Jesus would never

Forgive what you do

Let me ask you one question

Is your money that good

Will it buy you forgiveness

Do you think that it could

I think you will find

When your death takes its toll

All the money you made

Will never buy back your soul

And I hope that you die

And your death’ll come soon

I will follow your casket

In the pale afternoon

And I’ll watch while you’re lowered

Down to your deathbed

And I’ll stand o’er your grave

‘Til I’m sure that you’re dead

Copyright ©1963; renewed 1991 Special Rider Music

Tony

Tony,

“It ain’t going to happen”

I sincerely hope you’re right. I have a son in IT (network security) and he tells me they can’t do it. There is always a get-around. But he, too, could be wrong. Jailing dissident bloggers would have a powerful deterrent effect, I suspect. And censorship of websites is a first step on the road. Australia is almost there now.

“I think you are female and live in Ireland”

I am indeed. I don’t like to use my real name, for one reason: I have Google, Facebook, Twitter, Yahoo, and various other accounts, and I won’t give “them” the satisfaction of linking them all up and making it easy for them.

But I know if “they” wanted to find out about me (for some obscure reason!) they’d have the info from my ISP pronto if they had a warrant. And Google and Amazon etc are tracking us everywhere we go.

Your son sounds like one of these tech-whizz-kids who was born to work on a computer, and has gone on to make a business out of it at an early age. More power to his elbow.

Clark:

“Everywhere you go on the Internet, you’re tracked, using cookies, LSOs and recorded IP addresses.”

I know, it’s true. But I have a dynamic IP, and I clean out the computer thoroughly every day or so with “bleach” in Window Washer. But still, I know I’m track-able everywhere I go. I convince myself they won’t torture an old Irish granny! (How wrong can I be?)

And I hope that you die

And your death’ll come soon

I don’t.

What?

Sorry, quoting from Tony, above.

Clark,

Did you put The Catholic Orangemen of Togo up on the web?

Mark,

“A waste of time and money in my opinion because even 8yr old computer buffs will find a way round.”

Yep, my son and his mates say it’ll be an easy work-around, and meanwhile, governments will accidentally block perfectly legitimate sites that have nothing whatsoever contentious about them. All at enormous cost of course.

technicolour,

Sorry, I got it after I’d posted.

G’night all, sleep tight

technicolour,

I am currently listening to a girl who has moved from Southern California to Manchester because she likes Elbow

She can sing

Did you have anything to say?

She is on the Radio

104.9 FM

And Yes I did invite a Californian Girl To Come and Share a Tent at Latitude Festival where Elbow were playing

And Many Thousands Of People Read What I Wrote

I Like Californians

They Are Just Like Us

Tony

tone, actually I love elbow’s independent women. good night.

I think they may actually be doing this live on the radio, with no 1 minute time delay in case they fuck up and Tony Blair Breaks Down and Says Sorry

But it may have been pre-recorded

She doesn’t half sound like Shingai

http://www.myspace.com/jescahoop

http://www.noisettes.net/

Tony

Beeb, give us break.

Why don’t you make the most monumental distraction, and reveal lots of national and INTERNATIONAL state secrets about M-O-S-S-A-D? W-O-O-W-W!!!!! AND why don’t you broadcast a MURDER confession on live T.V. for those whose minds are mostly made of SOAP?

Tomorrow, instead of discussing the UKUS IS ethnic cleansing activities in Afghanistan you could, I don’t know, stage a funeral for Mrs Thatcher, send one hundred and fifty police vans to investigate suspicious white powder falling out of the sky. ANYTHING to take attention from the Great British Genocide.

dreoilin,

Thank you for sharing that with us.

I have worked in computing since the age of 19 when I got my first job.

I wanted to do computing at University, but my Older Brother said I should do my best subjects Maths and Physics

So I did for a year.

I did what I was told

But I wanted to do Computing

So I left after a year

Because I wanted to do Computing

And I applied for a job and they interviwed me and they put me through the test

And they kept turning me down

And I kept applying

And they kept interviewing me and testing me and turning me down

So after about 6 months of this I was getting to know the place pretty well

I kept turning up for interviews and they kept turning me down

So on my next attempt, I tried a different technique

I said I know the place so well, that can I have a job at sweeping the floors or mopping up…

But the guy who finally interviewed me and gave me the job didn’t realise this..

Cos several years later, one of my mates broke into his office and went through the personnel files

He wrote about me

“Keen and Clean and Determined”

So I got the job at age 19

By the time I was 22, I was interviewing Graduates for Jobs as Trainees

My son meanwhile, just did it himself, and got his own business going at the age of 13

More or Less the same stuff though

I’ve been retired for over 5 years now.

You have nothing to worry about.

Just give your lad all the encouragement you can and continue to lay all your passion down

You are Nice

And I want a Cuddle

Tony

xx

We were working at the forefront of computer technology just down the road from Machester University and Ferranti in Oldham

And there was a Collection of The Most Brilliant Minds

Not STUDYING IT

BUT TURNING IT INTO HARDWARE and Software

And there was No Way I could Compete With All These Genius’s

I just felt elated to be working with them

And so I saw things that needed to be done to turn the experimental hardware and software into Products That Could Actually Be Sold

So I kept finding jobs that just needed to be done, and just did them, and developed my expertise in non core skill areas

I found myself organising meetings and going to meetings and telling all the powers that be – where the real problems were and needed More Resources…

So when they discarded me at the age of 28, like Most of The Rest of Northern England

I was fucked

And had to learn computing from scratch – and so I did and was about to launch my own computer games company in Manchester…

But got made an offer I couldn’t refuse.

So my Girlfriend and I Moved to LONDON and Spoke Proper ENGLISH in a LANCASHIRE Accent

Never Did us Any Harm

Tony

May I quote Mark Golding yesterday in Blood on the Comic opera?

‘My mind is focussed, not on this propaganda war in South Afghanistan, but the wider robotic assassination program conducted by the CIA.’

May I apologise to Mark for a comment I made recently criticising his relief at UK troops protecting Pakistan’s nuclear facilities. I am very grateful to you for passing on bits of information like these in the Pakistan/Afghanistan news blackout.

May I also apologise to Craig for suggesting that his US fellow whistle- blowers whom he joined a couple of months ago were exaggerating the mass arrest program by CIA et al which Mark has described.

My mind finds it difficult to encompass the vastness of the scale of megalomaniac madness of the USUKIS’ criminality. Because we have no hard evidence unless we have first hand sources in the countries under attack, I try to not to exaggerate what I hear.

The giveaway,as Mark says, is the Hollywood blitz of BBC spin, with horrible Frank Goebbels Gardner and British officers performing good deeds for the cameras, and the smoke screen from Mossad and Dubai as the main story today.

Obama’s Afghanistan surge

is even more deadly and destructive than Bush’s false flag operations to ignite Iraq.

I invoke Allah’s curse on Obama and Brown and their criminal accomplices in the War on Islam.

“I invoke Allah’s curse on Obama and Brown and their criminal accomplices in the War on Islam.”

Hahahaahahahhaahahahahahahahaahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!

Too bad for you Allah doesn’t seem to give a shit!!!!

anno,

I don’t mind you invoking your curse on the horrible people, and I really appreciate your blessings.

I never had a problem with Odeng – a Muslim Guy working in my team

He was from Malaysia and He Was a Really Nice Guy and a Genius

He had his free time where he used to disappear discreetly such that no one knew – with his Prayer Mat – and it was Never a Problem

But when it came to Ramaddan and it was 9:30 pm – the First Day in June – and I Knew Exactly Why He Was Writhing on The Floor in Agony

And I walked out of the lift with My Colleagues and I Stepped Over His Body and Said You Stupid Cunt

And They Were All Fussing Over Him And They Thought I was Really Callous By Telling Them He Was O.K. – Just Leave Him Alone

At 10 pm when it goes dark, he will like a nice Cup of Tea – with Milk and Sugar

He Really Respected Me For That – and He Invited Me Home To Meet His Family

I Knew He Was O.K.

Tony

He had a present for me.

He said this is for your 3 year old son.

But it wasn’t his Son’s cos there’s was only about 12 months old.

So my lad got a new trike

It may have been a bike with stabilisation wheels…

But anyway, these gifts continued even in different places with different people

The bikes were passed on and recycled between the parents and the kids

And we used to ride around some of the biggest data centres in London on them at 2:00 am in the morning when no one was looking

Which is Fuck All

We’ve Had an Entire Car in One of Them

They Have Raised Floors – and You Can Fix The Engine From Underneath

Tony

Dreoilin,

yes, Craig asked people to put The Catholic Orangemen of Togo on the Internet because Spicer prevented him from publishing by threatening Craig’s publisher with libel. It’s on my webspace, linked from my name below.

And one night, and this is probably close to an official secret

They totally By-passed the Security Guards

And Smashed Their Way Through The Complex Of One of The Largest Companies in The UK…

With Axes

They Smashed The Place To Fuck

And They Thought It Was an Unattended Computer Room

And Their Objective Was To Steal The Hardware

And They Saw Human Beings and Thought

Well There is NO WAY Unless We Kill Them

So They Fucked Off

And So We Did It in TRIPLICATE

GEOGRAPHICALLY WELL DISPERSED

They Can Fuck Over One Complete Data Centre – Or Even Two Like They Did With The TWIN TOWERS

But it will be even more dispersed by Now

I Just Suggested To The Management What Was Required If They Valued Their Business

Tony

I do realise this is personally dangerous for me, but I really fancied it, and it was in the fridge – I have still left loads for my wife, it is Really Good for her…

It cost less than £1 – about 78p or something

Now, I do Realise Some People Who Read Here Maybe Shocked

But Yes I do get Gout

But I thought Fuck It and Went For The Liver

Very Nice Too

It Came From a Lamb in New Zealand

I didn’t eat the eyes or kidneys or testicles or heart or brain

I just ate a bit of its liver

With left over Chips and Two Fried Eggs

Now You Think I am a Fat Bastard Who Can Only Hop at Gigs – Cos My Other Foot is Fucked With Gout

Yeh Well

So What?

Tony

And so because I saw them on The Arts Channel in High Definition and Thought

He Can’t Do That – But He Did and It Was Obvious He Couldn’t Give a Fuck

And So My Mate Came Back From The Charity Shop With All This Crap That He Had Got For about 35p

And he said do you want any of that?

I said – I will take a copy of This

And I was on The Beach in India and I Thought Who The Fuck Is This Lunatic?

And I Danced and Ran About 5 Miles Along The Beach at 3:00 AM With My Sennheiersers on Which Do Stadium Sound With Virtually No Leakage

All Anyone Can Hear is My Dancing and Grunts

And So I am About To Dance Round My Back Garden

Listening at Exceedingly High Volume

To

THE FALL

I think the cunt comes from up north

Tony

And I have got another funeral to go to next week

He worked on The Leeds Liverpool Canal and He Has The Most Beautiful Twin Blonde Girls

But He Has Left Them

I Guess he was about 70

He would have made 90 if he hadn’t smoked so many cigarettes

So I will again be in for a hard time

They will be thinking I will not outlive them

I say – look I spend most of my time going to fucking funerals of people who are younger than me – and never smoked

So do you want a drag???

Tony

And so I Finally take my Slippers Off at 03:20 am, and turn the lights down low and turn all the security lights off and just have the solar powered and the Mains Powered Laser Ones On…

And I Put My Dancing Shoes On

And I am Dancing In The Garden and I Think

Fuck The Grass Doesn’t Half Feel Crunchy

Its all tufted up a bit and Frozen Solid

And I Feel Like Matt

http://www.wherethehellismatt.com/

Tony

Mark, apology accepted and sorry in return for hasty and over-critical post. The Australian millionaire killing horses out of pique got to me.

I have no idea what ‘T-force’ is, I’m a simple anti-racist.

Other commentators: The BNP won two MEP seats. I think it is dangerously complacent to underestimate them.

I admire Craig and posters here taking principled stands against outrages of human rights. In a small way that is what opponents of the BNP are also doing.

@Jon and technicolour.

Interesting comments, though my point was about free speech. No matter what the disagreements with the BNP are they have a right to be heard.

My right is to object to fucking idiots like the radical Islamic loons wanting to parade through WB and disrespect our fallen. It has nothing to do with ‘dark skins’ or religon, it is about my rights to object loud and vocally in objection per sae.

Besides, if they had gone ahead there would have been blood all over the place.

As to the horses, in Australia they are called brumbies and are an outright bloody pest as anyone whom has worked on a sheep farm knows. They were shot for attacking sheep (yup that’s right) over grazing and water territory.

On a farm next door (about 100 miles in Aussie terms) they trampled to death a 6 year old kid. Farmers shoot hundreds a year and rightly so. You put down poison for rats don’t you ?

I worked a sheep farm up in the Terrotories for a while and the manager’s instruction was to shoot brumbies on sight. I had no problem with that. Sorry guys, not provacation but a reality.

If you really want a cause to object to try the Japanese whaling fleet, oh, sorry,research vessels.

@Frazer – if you are in favour of extending free speech to the BNP, then you ought to extend the same freedom to the Islamic group. Could there not be a clearer double-standard in operation? This is why I think it is better to be less in favour of Voltaire’s absolute freedom of speech – we don’t extend the right to falsely cry fire in a crowded theatre, etc etc.

To clarify, I am pessimistic on the issue of free speech for the BNP – theirs is a special case as, given their admiration for Hitler, they would be likely to shut down free speech if they had the power and opportunity. It is not democratic to allow people to vote for a party who would shut down democracy, certainly.

The interesting thing, of course, is that to be even-handed I should recognise that some Islamic groups want to shut down democracy too. Islam4UK, who I have spoken to personally, is in favour of Sharia Law for Britain, and as such also should not be afforded the opportunity to regisgter themselves as a legitimate political party (though they don’t, as far as I know – they are a pressure group).

On “disrespecting our fallen” – I have no quarrel with our soldiers, and I do not argue they should be specifically disrespected. They are victims of a monstrous system and their families should be allowed to grieve in peace. But I am wary of language specifically designed to decorate soldiers efforts for “our boys”, “queen and country”, “defending freedom” or other such propaganda. In Iraq and in Afghanistan, they died fighting an illegal war or a pointless one. I am not happy about that at all – they should not have been sent to either in the first place. Groups wishing to point this out should be permitted to do so, though I think it is fair to ask that it is done sensitively.

And why are Islamic groups angry? Well, we see in the news that flying robots have been put to work in the sky, dropping bombs that kill a hundred Afghan civilians in a double wedding party in one go, without the cowardly joystick operator in Langley, Virginia ever having the decency to enter an even-handed, risky, firefight. And a million other reasons, which you know about already, and which are often the subject of this blog.

True, I do wonder whether a protest by certain Islamic groups in military-family areas would be inflammatory. But, on the other hand, surely if we are wishing to reduce the perceived need for domestic extremism, is shutting down the right to peacefully protest not counterproductive?

On the contrary Larry, as we see all around us, just Allah cares. HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa! You still didn’t understand your Gospels that the wheat and the tares are permitted to grow up alongside one another until the Day of Judgement. My Qur’an says the same. I get stereo and 3 D on all channels and I get surprised when the disbelievers can’t even get a signal on their MacChrystal radios. Their loss, not mine.

“Islam4UK, who I have spoken to personally, is in favour of Sharia Law for Britain”–Jon

Jon, do they advocate any type of extremist action in what they preach – other than being in favour of Sharia?

“I do wonder whether a protest by certain Islamic groups in military-family areas would be inflammatory.”

Agreed, but I was of the opinion that some compromise could have been found.

“is shutting down the right to peacefully protest not counterproductive?”

Again, I thought that they wanted to commemorate Muslim deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan. And given the way each death of a British soldier is treated in the media (at least what I see of UK media) it seemed to me that since numbers of Muslim deaths are not mentioned and names are never or rarely given, to allow such commemoration would seem reasonable.

But I fear me that I spoke without sufficient knowledge.

“it seemed to me that since numbers of Muslim deaths are not mentioned and names are never or rarely given” (me)

I’m speaking of specific incidents, and not the likes of the Lancet study. Drone attacks that kill 12 civilians, etc.

@dreoilin: as to whether Islam4UK are advocating extremist action, I am not sure. I don’t think it has been proven, although I’ve not looked into it in depth. I should imagine that it has been alleged by the government and by the press that they “have links” to such-and-such a group. Islam4UK have a website, which might answer that, although of course equally it might not tell the whole story

I also agree a compromise might have been found. I wonder if a different area might have been better though; their quarrel should be with the government, not the military families. That said, I’d be open to their demonstrating in Wootton Bassett if it was done with consideration for the families.

On the last point, I think you misunderstood my comment – I think we are in agreement here. My point was that if Islamic protests are always shut down, Muslims will have access to less democratic expression, and some misguided individuals might consider turning to terrorism. Yes, I should think the group would want to commemorate Muslim deaths, and I think that with very limited provisos, they have a right to.

I agree with you about the invisibility of civilian victims of Western drone attacks. On this topic, this article (see link) is interesting:

‘Lord Bingham, who retired last year as a senior law lord, said the aircraft [drones] could follow other weapons considered “so cruel as to be beyond the pale of human tolerance” in being consigned to the history books.’

Ah, I should also have mentioned that the representative of Islam4UK that I spoke to was not advocating violent extremism.

I’ve posted it here before, but for interest, I wrote a piece on the meeting last year (linked).

Thanks, Jon. Going off to follow up your links.

Larry’s ‘gospels’ are doubtless contained in the Talmud, one of the most disgusting pieces of ‘literature’ ever conceived and wonderfully evocative of the Jewish mentality.

Alistair

I’m not sure if you’re allowed to use the ‘J’ word. If you google your name, if it is your real name, you may find a permanent link to your comment which might not make your future employers happy.

The Qur’an ubiqitously recites the sins of the Yahoodis, in order to warn the Muslims about the pitfalls of their faith, from the examples of those who preceded them from the children of Israel. Out of context, this looks like racism. I would recommend, if you want to use the ‘J’ word, that you either attach a full explanation of the context of your remarks, to make it plain you are not being racist, or use a blog name, maybe, albatross.

You are allowed to use the ‘Z’ word, which refers to the politics of the state of Israel, and to ‘J’s and non-’J's embedded in the institutions of our own and other states in order to lobby legitimately for Israel or illegitimately for the destruction of Israel’s critics.

A Zionist spokesman said yesterday on Radio 4′s PM that Israeli assassination of a Muslim in Dubai using UK forged passports would be accepted by the UK government. They appear to be not only embedded, but also shagging Gordon Brown’s left ear. The right one doesn’t work because it’s the one he uses to ‘listen’ to the British people.

Larry, speak to me. 9/11 9/11 9/11

Thank you for your comments, anno. I know that in the New World Order truth is no defence but here we are.

The Jerusalem Post, on behalf of all Chosenites, castigates Gentiles for refusing to acquiesce in the Jewish State sponsored murder in Dubai. Even old Eichmann from that collection of tall tales known as The Holohoax gets a mention:

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Editorials/Article.aspx?id=169118