“some behind the scenes electoral work”

Intriguing! Keep us posted!

(Are you going to be the man feeding the lines to Calamity via the concealed earpiece during the TV debates??!)

)

*Early day Motion from George Galloway MP*

/Israel lobby support for the leader of HM Opposition/

This House notes with concern the increasingly close relationship between the Britain-Israel Communications and Research Centre (BICOM) and the office of the leader of the Opposition, the Rt Hon member for Witney (Mr Cameron).

The House notes that BICOM’s chairman Poju Zabludowicz, a close associate of Benyamin Netanyahu, a Finnish billionaire, and British non-domiciled resident taxpayer and former arms dealer has donated over 2 million pounds over the last three years to BICOM as well as funding, through his British subsidiary company Tamares Real Estate Investments, Mr Cameron’s leadership campaign and subsequently his private office as well as the Conservative party.

The House notes with concern that Zabludowicz is profiting from substantial investments in the illegal Israeli settlements in east Jerusalem and ask HM Government to clarify whether it is a) legal for British residents to profit from the fruits of illegal settlement activity and b) legal for British political parties to receive donations which may well in part be funded from such activities.

And more about the Joooooos!!!!

Mary – talking about these elephants in the room has almost become the third rail in British politics too. I can’t believe that Clegg sacked Jenny Tonge for making an entirely reasonable point. She was also, as I recall, hauled over the coals for daring to suggest that suicide bombers might have a reason for their behaviour. What? How dare the stupid women! All suicide bombers are evil, crazed and do it for no other reason that wicked pleasure! Sheesh, one would think blaspheme laws had been reinstated and widened considerably.

It’s pretty incredible how Carter got treated when he brought out his book:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Palestine-Peace-Apartheid-Jimmy-Carter/dp/0743285026

It’s a very valuable data point that’s provided by our resident troll – mention anything about Israeli foreign policy, and some stooge will get onto it’s hind legs for a moment to rattle off shrill accusations of anti-semitism.

(Admittedly, our resident stooge is getting a bit stale now – can’t we get an upgrade that’s a bit more interesting? It’s rather insulting that this is the best they have available for us. )

I invite anyone to delve back to at least the beginning of the year to obtain any number of examples, just on this blog. As soon as criticism of Israeli foreign policy is offered, said stooges will clamour for attention, while never _ever_ going near the actual point at hand.

For once, simple Larry, you are providing a service, consistently too. Keep it up.

The “take home” point is that nothing except accusations of anti-semitism are made. Never anything approaching an addressing of the criticism.

Out of nowhere-in-particular, a reading recommendation.

http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/

I’ve had it bookmarked for years, and lose a few hours to it every now and then (like, just now). The subjects are many and varied – at the moment it’s swivel-eyed-loons, dissected to hell and back – but the thing that impresses me is that it’s about the only blog I know where the discussion picks right up from the starting point and continues right to the point. Highest signal-to-noise ever.

Particularly interesting, to me, is the quiet and practised skill of the moderators, when you see them intervening every now and then to explain what they’ve done, and why.

I should perhaps leave it there, but I’ve fallen victim to the temptation to quote, from the middle of one long multi-faceted comment :-

”

Our long history of angry, unreasonable white people is also a history of successes and failures in making and enforcing the law, promoting peaceful understanding, and developing and teaching democratic systems of conflict resolution.

Will you be surprised if I say my thoughts on this are a lot like my thoughts on moderating forums and conversations?

– Democracy takes work, and constant tending. It’s difficult to impose it on people who don’t understand it.

– Having a good rule set is important, and so is constantly teaching that rule set, but it’s essential that people see it in action, over and over again.

– People have to have a sense of pride and ownership in their government in order for it to work properly. Those who preach disrespect and/or disengagement are not friends of democracy. Neither are those who take respectful and engaged criticism of it as an affront.

– Interventions by authorities always have two dimensions: what they mean in terms of managing the immediate situation, and what they teach the onlookers about the system and how it works. Poeple will always configure their behavior based on what they see happening around them.

– The single most important factor in the equation is the maintenance of everyday social order by the community itself.

– Police behavior first, outcomes second, and motives a very distant third.

And so forth.

” (Teresa Nielsen Hayden, one of the proprietors).

Good night, sleep well.

“It’s a very valuable data point that’s provided by our resident troll – mention anything about Israeli foreign policy, and some stooge will get onto it’s hind legs for a moment to rattle off shrill accusations of anti-semitism.”

This keeps getting repeated. You people don’t get it. Criticism of Israeli foreign policy is just fine, and I believe vitally important. But blaming the Jews for 911 and the like is amazingly stupid and racist.

“But blaming the Jews for 911 and the like is amazingly stupid and racist”.

But blaming Muslims is perfectly OK.

Thanks for those points Glenn.

Galloway’s EDM is a statement of rightful objection to the Israeli influence in OUR House of Commons by way of the large membership of the Friends of Israel lobbies in each party. Some of the activity could even be considered treasonable as these elected representatives are giving allegiance to a foreign country which is racist, aggressive and heavily militarized including possessing nuclear weapons let us not forget.

Peter Oborne made a Channel 4 programme – Dispatches – Inside Britain’s Israel Lobby – which included the activities of this character Poju Zabludowicz.

Our democracy has been debased.

Today Oborne lays in to Blair, brought to power incidenatlly with the help of his Jewish friends including Levy.

‘Spare us election sermons from the man who corrupted and degraded British politics.

The name of Tony Blair is not only synonymous with winning votes. It has also become associated with financial sleaze, lying, deceit and corruption.’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/columnists/article-1262387/Tony-Blair-Election-sermons-man-degraded-UK-politics.html

Tonight in Beverly Hills: Code Pink tries to make a citizen’s arrest of Karl Rove and handcuff him–his book signing is so disrupted he has to leave without signing books–but he does tell the man calling him a war criminal that the Downing Street Memo was a fake.

On Crooks and Liars: http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/code-pink-tries-arrest-karl-rove

Rove: “With all due respect, this goes to show the totalitarianism of the left.” …

“The Downing Street memos are a complete fabrication and this man is a lunatic. You can leave, sir.”

Tomorrow, Fresno.

me in us

Another Early morning 5:30 AM St. Louis time post from Larry!!!

Or is it a 1:30 Israeli time post?

You decide!

And look at this hypocrite

“You people don’t get it. Criticism of Israeli foreign policy is just fine, and I believe vitally important.”

The post he called “More about Jews” was to do with arms deals, Arab being kicked out of their homes in to make way for Zionist settlement.

Only Larry knows how that is connected to “But blaming the Jews for 911 and the like is amazingly stupid and racist.”

Because his Mum did 9:11.

Larry there is only one reason why I don’t blame Israel for 911?

That is because there are so many things to blame Israel for, there is no need for 911.

Israel has killed countless Palestinians, Israel supported South African appetite, Israel is in itself an apatite much worse than the south African model.

Whether Israel did, or didn’t do 911 is not relevant to Israel being an illegitimate state. All of Israel, not just the west bank, Gaza, Sheba Farms, Golan heights, East and West Jerusalem is illegally occupied lands.

And every inch of what they call Israel needs to be given back to the legitimate owners, including your house Larry.

Larry has again brought up 911 in a thread where it is irrelevant. Remember the rule?

When he does that we bash Israel.

Larry doesn’t like Israel being blamed.

I agree blaming doesn’t really solve anything.

What we need is solutions people!!!

Solutions!

What is the solution to occupation?

It is liberation!

Occupied Palestine needs to be liberated, that is when the healing can begin.

These Arab rulers, and their big pot bellies have proven they are unable or unwilling to do it.

So they need to be removed, and replaced by a single ruler who is up to the Job.

What I am talking about is the Saluhideen solution.

The Unite and fight solution of Saluhideen as apposed to the disunite and fight of the Arab puppets.

Before Saluhideen took on the Crusaders, he united the Muslim world, by ending the Fatimid state in Egypt and uniting its lands with the Abasid Khilafah in Iraq.

Then after unity, he invaded and liberated Palestine.

After the liberation, he negotiated peace, and peace was restored.

That and only that is the solution to this problem.

First unity, Muslim nations need to unite in to one nation, We’ll call it the Khilafah, but you can call it the Muslim EU is you like as apposed to the Christian EU where Turkey is not wanted.

Secondly liberation. Israel needs to be invaded, and apatite ended, resulting in all of Palestine including the part maps describe as Israel being reintegrated in to the wider middle east.

Third and final stage. Then we’ll negotiated settlement to result in peaceful coexistence of all the regions inhabitants of every religion.

It has taken some time to bring a reasonable perspective to the Zionist threat to western democracy.

Only two years ago, there would have been shrill cries of anti-Semitism, for merely insinuating the Zionist lobby connection with UK government.

I have read and watched with exasperation, the international crimes committed by Israel, and listened at the silence of the UK in particular, to these crimes.

Once known for its fair play and indiscriminate criticism of rogue states and bullying governments, the British government has become conspicuous for its passive and active alignment with those whom, Britain erstwhile, would have found brutal and repugnant.

The State within a State accusation, has brought squeals of derision and hatred from some quarters of Zion, but only yesterday a British/Jewish male set an article in the Daily Mail, stating that, he was going to live in Israel. This male had returned to Britain, in 2004, from service in the IDF.

“If it quacks like a duck, if it walks like a duck . . .”

It would be in our democratic interest to know, if there is a significant Zionist influence in British parliament, as appears (AIPAC for one) at Capitol Hill, US.

No one gives cash to a political party for nothing–and some sponsorships appear to have sway on the way our present parliament and government performs–especially in foreign policy.

Tony Blair: His speech to Aipac in full

The former British Prime Minister and envoy to the Middle East Quartet, Tony Blair, to the Aipac conference in Washington. His speech in full:

“My job is to try to get agreement between Israelis and Palestinians, for the Quartet which tries to get agreement between the US, the UN, the EU and Russia. I thought after being Prime Minister of Britain for ten years I should try something easy.

I am always described as a friend of Israel. It is true. I am and proud of it and I will tell you why.

Israel is a democracy. The politicians are in fear of the people, not the people in fear of the politicians.

Citizens are governed by the rule of law. Men and women are equal before the law.

In Israel you can worship your faith in the way you want; or not as you choose.

There is freedom of thought and speech; Israeli society is vibrant, its art electrifying and its culture open.

In many respects, the Middle East region should regard Israel not as an enemy but as a model.

continues/…

http://www.thejc.com/news/world-news/29781/tony-blair-his-speech-aipac-full

Risible.

Richard Robinson: many thanks for the link to the Making Light blog. I see what you mean about the remarkable focus of the commenters. Restores your faith in Americans. Larry of course wouldn’t get a look in there. Lessons to be learned perhaps.

“The House notes that BICOM’s chairman Poju Zabludowicz, a close associate of Benyamin Netanyahu, a Finnish billionaire, and British non-domiciled resident taxpayer and former arms dealer has donated over 2 million pounds over the last three years to BICOM ……”

Oh I see we are playing the guilt by association game. Perhaps we might wish to start doing the same with Mr Galloway – you can almost hear him squealing about the unfairness of it already.

Arsalan

So after liberating Palestine what would you do about its Jewish population? Drive them into the sea? What rights would any Jews in Palestine then have?

Israel is not an illegitimate state under International Law – it was recognised by the UN. It’s occupation of the West Bank and Gaza isn’t.

As for a single ruler of all the Arab states – well all I can say dream on, it just isn’t going to happen. Have you noticed the trand in most of the world for more and more countries rather than less?

All accept the cretinous (on both sides) recognise that any peace in the Middle East lies in mutual recognition of Jewish and Arab claims. Of course Arsalan has his Israeli alteregos – but they are equally stupid.

And why the interest in Larry’s location – presumably you’d like to issue a fatwa, rather than having to address any of his arguments with any thing other than abuse.

Arsalan

So after liberating Palestine what would you do about its Jewish population? Drive them into the sea? What rights would any Jews in Palestine then have?

Israel is not an illegitimate state under International Law – it was recognised by the UN. It’s occupation of the West Bank and Gaza isn’t.

As for a single ruler of all the Arab states – well all I can say dream on, it just isn’t going to happen. Have you noticed the trand in most of the world for more and more countries rather than less?

All accept the cretinous (on both sides) recognise that any peace in the Middle East lies in mutual recognition of Jewish and Arab claims. Of course Arsalan has his Israeli alteregos – but they are equally stupid.

And why the interest in Larry’s location – presumably you’d like to issue a fatwa, rather than having to address any of his arguments with any thing other than abuse.

Of course perhaps we should appreciate that those who don’t understand that although Larry is from St Louis but might possibly be located elsewhere probably do have some difficulty in comprehending the concept of freedom of movement.

“Larry doesn’t like Israel being blamed.”

Is it possible to accept that blame can be attributed to both sides of an an argument (as Larry does if you bother to read waht he says) – and that actually attributing blame may not contribute very much to the resolution of many problems?

“So after liberating Palestine what would you do about its Jewish population?”

Well certainly not engage in the ethnic cleansing that the Stern Gang and Irgun et al perpetrated in the 1940s to clear Palestine of Palestinians.

Most Palestinians agree that the majority of Israelis were born there and that forced removal is no more proper or acceptable than it was in the 1940s.

“Oh I see we are playing the guilt by association game”

My reading of it is that he is simply drawing our attention to facts that represent a prima facie case that criminal activity is taking place and should therefore be investigated.

Galloway himself was of course suspected of misappropriating funds from his Iraqi charity, but in his case the matter was fully investigated and he was exonerated as a result.

Stephen, or Larry by another name?

What we wont do is kill their children to sell their Kidneys to rich newyorkers.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2009/07/23/2009-07-23_2_new_jersey_mayors_arrested_in_sweeping_money_laundering_probe.html

Drive them in to the sea is how Israel was founded. It is what Israel did to the People who were their first.

You view others by your standards. Just because you behave like that, don’t expect others behave like that.

Zionists are the ones with the Nazi ideology. No one else has your racist ideas, so no one else will behave like you.

I said I believe in the Saluhideen solution, and that is what will be implemented on Israel.

If you want to know what that will mean to your friend Larry, then go read about Saluhideen and what happened to the Christians of Palestine.

They are still there by the way, at least the few that haven’t been expelled or exterminated by your Zionist Nazis are still there.

What your Zionists Nazis are offering as a peace deal, is appetite south Africa, enclaves, independent in name only. What you are proposing as a two state solution is an independent Jewish Israel, and a concentration camps for the Arabs.

If you are right, and I am dreaming you have nothing to fear.

If I am right and what the British did by chopping up the middle east after ww1 is reversed.

Your Israel doesn’t have a chance.

And even if it has a chance, Israel can win as many wars against us as Israel likes, we would only need to win one war.

And sooner or later we will.

there are less than 15 million of you and more than 1.5 billion of us. your numbers are diminishing, ours are increasing.

your days are numbered.

Now that you have the ability, do whatever war crimes you like, have your fun. Kill some babies, and have a good laugh about it. Make your money by selling their Kidneys.

There will come a time when the children you shoot at will be the ones ruling you, and then cry anti-Semitism as much as you like.

The world has seen how you behaved when you had the guns, soon the world will see how you whimper when your victims have the guns.

MJ – “many thanks for the link to the Making Light blog. I see what you mean about the remarkable focus of the commenters. Restores your faith in Americans”

It’s a pleasure

To be fair, they’re not all US/Canadians. Mostly, yes, but also some Brits, and others, I think. Often the subjects are stuff I have no interest in, but it’s still a pleasure to see what they can do with it.

Though, the bit I quoted did seem to have a distinctively USA-at-its-best quality, yes.

“Larry of course wouldn’t get a look in there.”

It’s intriguing to imagine his conversation with the moderators. (That was the contrast that led me to post it, of course. A longwinded way of not just going and banging my head against a convenient wall at his malignant pointlessness).

“Lessons to be learned perhaps.”

For me, food for thought rather than any direct take-away conclusions, I think. What we have here is a harder problem, in the absence of moderation.

The ideal-world anarchist’s real-world case-study, maybe ? We need rules, and how to defend ourselves against those who are taking the piss, in the absence of law-enforcement ? With a note that the successful approaches appear to have a software-based, technical component; moderation, banning, disemvowelling, killfiles, etc. In time, maybe a large-enough group might reach a state of being able to being able to behave as though such technical fixes were in place, and working ?

Arsalan

Thank you for demonstrating my case so admirably. Why not answer the questions raised rather than changing the subject? I’m not a Nazi, I haven’t sold anyone’s kidneys, I am not Larry, I haven’t shot at any children and I’m perfectly able to criticise Israel’s behaviour when appropriate.

Do you realise what a complete embarassment to nearly everything that you claim to represent.

glenn – “Never anything approaching an addressing of the criticism”.

That’s right. Point out on one thread that his comments are ridiculous, and he disengages and does it again in the next thread. Evade, bluster, bully and repeat.

What you also forget is that unlike in Saladin’s time is that the protagonists on both sides now have nuclear weapons. I somehow doubt you realise how cretinous your “final solution” really is.

“It’s intriguing to imagine his conversation with the moderators”

Moderator: I’m sorry Mr Larry, but you appear to have posted your comment on the wrong thread. We are not discussing 911, Israel, Bigfoot or Roswell here and none of the commenters has made any reference to these issues.

Larry: You moronic batshit crazy anti-semitic conspiraloon!!

arsalan – “The world has seen how you behaved when you had the guns, soon the world will see how you whimper when your victims have the guns.”

Yes, it’s a worry. I think that must have been very much the state of mind 50-some years ago, that gave rise to the current set of problems, isn’t it ? Sick at seeing the way your people are treated, and then you get the guns …

“What you also forget is that unlike in Saladin’s time is that the protagonists on both sides now have nuclear weapons”

Now I’m confused. Which two protagonists are these ?

Arsalan/ Richard… much the same happened in the US with segregation and slavery. Whites were terrified that they their appalling treatment would produce a huge backlash of revenge, which was one major reason for continuing the subjugation.

Richard

Israel and Pakistan – remember Arsalan and his ilk wants to draw all Islamic nations into his Caliphate.

“Israel and Pakistan – remember Arsalan and his ilk wants to draw all Islamic nations into his Caliphate”

Ah, I see. Personally, I think the remote-controlled “hellfire” is more of a worry, wrt pushing Pakistan in disastrous directions, than any argument of arsalan’s.

What Stephen and his ilk don’t understand is the days of colonialism are over. Muslims Nations weren’t the ones who decided to be cut apart from each other.

It was the British and the French who did that with a red marker pen. Take a look at a map and look at the straight lines all over the middle east.

It is up to Muslims of those nations whether they want to reunite in to the single state they lived in before WW1 and colonialism, or want to remain in the mess they live in now.

It isn’t up to you stephen, or Israel or the US.

It is up to us, and no one but us how we rule ourselves. So we will unite, and when we do, you can go in to a corner and cry anti-Semitism as much as you like.

Israel has an option to resolve all of this peaceful and keep very good terms for its Zionist settlers. This is the option chosen by south African settlers.

Which is one man, one vote, one nation, full equality for all citizens.

Something tells me they will never choose that, because if they wanted to live in equality with people of inferior races they would have remained where they are. American Jews, British Jews and Russian Jews already had full equality where they were, they went to Israel because they wanted to be above equal.

And that is something we will never accept. So there will be war to resolve this. the best we can hope for is that it will be as bloodless as possible, and peace will be restored after the event as quick as possible.

The best way to insure that is to face Israel with overwhelming odds.

Israel needs to be weakened by as many boycotts and sanctions before the event as possible for its own good, and Muslims in all Muslim majority nations need to be made to understand, the only solution for them to flourish is unity.

Jews should plan for post Israel, and so should we.

As well as encouraging the natives of that land to resist, they should be made to understand that their fight is to end oppression, and not to replace the oppressors.

And maybe, just maybe, if Israel is weakened by sanctions and boycotts, in the way South Africa was, and it is faced with a united Islamic Army instead of school boys with Rocks, they might just see sense as the white south Africans did and avoid the war they can not win.

“It is up to Muslims of those nations whether they want to reunite in to the single state they lived in before WW1 and colonialism”

Agree with the first part. I’m all for democratic self detrmination anywhere – pity most of the dictators in that part of the world aren’t prepared to trust their own people. The second part is just garbage historically – there never was a single state before WW1 and colonialism.

As for the Jews in Israel agreeing to their inclusion in a single pan Islamic state (where they are a minority – and where the constituent parts have an atrocious recent track record in their treatment of minorities and in their respect for freedoms and democratic rights) you haven’t a snowball in hell’s chance. If you need to understand anything about Jewish history – their experience as minorities in large states has been little short of disastrous – and they would not submit willingly to the same again.

I think you will find that many Maaronite Christians in Lebanon and Kurds will have a similar view.

@stephen – I mean this advice kindly – if you use phrases like “cretinous”, “you’re a complete embarrassment”, etc, then you won’t get anywhere, and you might be regarded as someone popping in and cruising for a fight for the hell of it.

Anno and Arsalan are opposed to many of the liberal views espoused on this board, but generally they are only abusive when abused, which is probably fair enough! Accordingly although I think they are wrong about most things, I am still able to engage with them and explain why I think this, and a civil conversation often ensues.

On the other hand, if you call them names – if you call anyone names – I think they won’t listen to you.

Larry, oh Sorry Stephen.

I did mention they will not agree, they went there to be masters not equals.

You mentioned Jews feel they didn’t fair well as minorities. I didn’t know they were a minority here? or in America where they are doing very well?

But after they made themselves a majority in what you call Israel by expelling or murdering the native majority, people don’t seem to do very well under their majority do they?

And if you count the numbers in the area under their control, you will find they are no longer a majority any more.

And the people they deem as lesser races still aren’t doing very well.

Yes I agree they didn’t go their to be a minority. But now they are. What you call their peace deal is apatite. We will not agree to that. And they wont agree to full equality, because that would mean living under someone else rule.

So their will be war. If we win, after it there will be peace.

If you win, there will be another war, which will be replaced by another until Israel loses, and then their will be peace.

“Something tells me they will never choose that, because if they wanted to live in equality with people of inferior races they would have remained where they are”

Isn’t the defining characteristic of racists everywhere that they believe in inferior and superior races.

Yes, Zionism is racism.

“This keeps getting repeated. You people don’t get it. Criticism of Israeli foreign policy is just fine, and I believe vitally important.” Larry from St Louis.

Does this mean that you (whether singular or plural) believe that criticism of US and UK foreign policy in relation to imperial wars is also vitally important? Do you disagree with the central thrust of those policies?

If you can comment as above on Israel, what’s stopping you from answering my simple question wrt the US and UK?

I agree with your basic point – but I think you will find that Arsalan’s standard response is to resort to abuse and ad hominem attacks on all who disagree with – and his standard response is to ignore any questions or challenges to his position (just try and get hime to provide an answer to a question about human rights in any Moslem country). He also fails to understand that any views that differ to his own are not necessarily diametrically opposed. Sometime it needs strong language to point this out.

Just how insulting do you think it is to continually call Zionists Nazis and racists? Especially since Arsalan belives that anyone who believes in the continued existence of Israel is by his definition a Zionist. And no I’m not even Jewish.

The last post was by me and was addressed to Jon

Apologies

Larry can speak for himself, and I will and have criticised him when I think it is necessary – but of course criticism of US and UK foreign policy is vitally important. Criticism of all policies is essential for any democracies to survive – it improves policies and stops mistakes being repeated. It is also the one of the central features that distinguishes democracies from dictatorship

While I may agree with the general thrust of UK foreign policy there are quite a number of areas where I do disagree. I do actually think it was right to dispose of Saddam and get rid of the Taliban in Afghanistan – but i don’t think that the purpose of doing so was clearly thought out at the time. If the aim had been to return those countries to self determination (rather than being run by Fascist dictatorships) this would have dictated a much clearer and shorter term exit strategy – this is something that Obama understands but his predecessor didn’t.

One of the beauties of democracies is that they permit nuanced views rather than the yes/no positions required in dictatorships.

Stephanie “but of course criticism of US and UK foreign policy is vitally important.”

Larry “Criticism of Israeli foreign policy is just fine, and I believe vitally important.

”

They are the same Person!!!!

Or they are taking instructions from the same people.

Larry, Or Stephanie if you prefer we use that name. Stop being such a bitch, no one is going to fall for that divide and rule stuff her, so go home and cry to mummy!

People here know what I think of the puppet states in the Muslim world, and they know what solution I have for them

And you Larry are a liar, you are a dirty liar. That is because I did tell you just a couple of hours ago what should be done to those so called Muslim countries and you responded. Not using your LArry name, but your Stephanie name. So you know what I think of them.

But you still say that, because you are an idiot and a hate monger. You mistakenly believe that if you lie about me people here will believe you and we will turn on each other.

But bitch that wont happen, whether you call yourself Larry, Stephanie or any other bitch name,

People here know what I think of the puppet rulers installed by America on the Muslim world, and they know what my solution is. You know it too you lying bitch.

And people know what bitch tricks you Zionist try and pull to get us to turn on each other instead of the evil nation you support.

So **** you, **** Larry, **** your antisemitism slogan that you try and shut us up with, , and **** your mother if she wasn’t so fat!

Have you noticed something about the Zionists who come here to bitch?

Whatever name they use, they all state “I am not Jewish”.

Larry, Angry, Stephanie, all of those bitches!

And do you know something?

I agree with them!!!!!!!

Zionism is is apostasy from Judaism!

Love of Zionism means hatred of Judaism.

that is what we’ve been saying all along.

Zionists are not Jewish!

Hatred of Israel means hatred of antisemitism.

It is impossible to be a Zionist and a Jew at the same time. Zionism is a racist cult so requires the abandonment of Judaism.

So Larry/Stephanie even though I believe you have been instructed to say that, I believe you are right, you are not a Jew. In fact I believe you are more than right, no Zionists are Jewish.

Zionists have no religion, they are just racist Nazis. they helped the Nazis kill real Jews to make to help the foundation of Israel. Zionists aided the Nazi in anyway they can, because both share the same racist ideology.

And nothing has changed. Who supports the Nazi BNP?

the Zionists.

Now you see them on the same marches!!

You See skin headed Nazi BNP with their swastika tattoos, marching hand in hand with Zionist Israelis!

You see them waving the Israeli flag with one hand and giving Nazi salutes with the other.

Stephanie, you are both the same.

I reserve my politeness for people, you bitch are a racist Nazi, not a person. Go to Satan if you want friendship, politeness and a nice cordial discussion.

And Larry I didn’t mean Zionists are Nazis as an insult, I meant it as fact.

Take a look at Zionists and NeoNazis walking hand in hand,

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Bfndnd6PMps/Su2w_sdJJQI/AAAAAAAAARM/TeDyfp8sPgw/s400/israeli+flag2.JPG

Then take a look at who the real Jews support:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Qm2i8mXTjhs/SvARxGnpaKI/AAAAAAAACC8/DaSh8Hxu9nw/s400/anti-zionist-jews.jpg

Arsalan, they’re baiting you. Just give them the middle finger and move on. For what it’s worth, they’re lying too with this from Larry “I’m not even Jewish” Stephen :

“… think you will find that Arsalan’s standard response is to resort to abuse and ad hominem attacks on all who disagree with [him]”

That’s just flat out untrue. Just for instance, you and I have disagreed with each other numerous times, and you have never once used an ad hominem against me, nor me against you.

Glenn my insults are reserved for Zionists.

They are here to stop us discussing Israel. So whatever they say, attack Israel.

That way their presence will cause their cause more harm than good, and maybe they will crawl back under their rocks.

Arsalan’s righteous zeal is remarkable to behold.

A little game I play in my mind – who would I rather meet in a dark alley? Who would I rather share a lifeboat with? I’d know where I stood with Arsalan, but what about the writer of the following:

“I do actually think it was right to dispose of Saddam and get rid of the Taliban in Afghanistan – but i don’t think that the purpose of doing so was clearly thought out at the time”.

He might just “dispose” of me, though his purpose might not be clearly thought out at the time…

Thank you, Stephen, for answering the question which I’ve been directing at the larries for several weeks without getting any response. I disagree with you, of course, but that’s the way it goes.

Now, larries, see how easy it is? Stephen answered my question. It did not result in nuclear war. Can you do the same? If not, why not?

Clark, a dalek is immune from such fears. A dalek can see in the dark. You are a dalek. A good and cultured one, with a deep soul.

I would not jump out of the boat, though, so I’d rather be in a boat with Arsalan than one with me. He’d also be able to catch fish more effectively. Anyway, it’s likely that Arsalan, fish wizard, can swim with the selkies and mermaids.

suhayl

Sorry to disappoint you:

I can swim, but not very well.

But I am good at catching fish though. I have often caught them with my hands when I see them swimming along our local polluted canal.

I realised them though, eating them would be more suicidal than jumping out of the lifeboat.

I have caught two fish with a rod, a small one that I photoed before release, and a large one that got away.

Oh well we now have the latest crackpot theory from Arsalan.

“no Zionists are Jewish.

Zionists have no religion, they are just racist Nazis. they helped the Nazis kill real Jews to make to help the foundation of Israel. Zionists aided the Nazi in anyway they can, because both share the same racist ideology.”

Leaving aside the gross historical inaccuracies, I think any rational person will understand that many who believe in the continued existence of Israel (and that is not the same as condoning all the actions of the Israeli state) are Jewish, just as there are some who have the same belief who are not Jewish. Yes there is also a small minority of Jews who do not support the existence of the State of Israel – but all the major religions do contain divergent views.

Arsalan of course feels that he is entitled to decide who is and who isn’t Jewish – does he think he is God – or has Allah told him? What qualifies him to do this? Perhaps he should let us know what would happen in his Islamic superstate to those people in Israel who profess to be Jewish and support the existence of the State of Israel – but don’t meet his definition of being a Jew?

Why does Arsalan now call me a girl’s name – just as he does with Larry – does he think that this is somehow insulting? This perhaps reveals his true views about 50% of the world’s population.

And one other question for Arsalan – could he let us know whether his proposed Islamic superstate will include all those states which belonged to the former Soviet Union with Moslem populations, as well as those those “republics” such as Chechenya, Dagestan, Tartarstan, Bashkiria etc. which remain within the Russian Federation. If so perhaps we can add another nuclear power to the list of possible protagonists.

It is practicing Jews who are saying Zionists are not Jews.

And it is these very Jews who suffered under the Nazis who are saying that you Zionists collaberated with the Nazis.

So when it comes to deciding who to believe, whether you who claim to be a non-Jew, or JEws who follow every word of the Torah. I am going to believe the Jews and saying Zionists are a bunch of Nazi collaberators who have no connection to Judaism what so ever.

And believe those real Jews when they say you Zionists are Nazis and not Jews is not difficult if you look at the Nazi actions of Israel. And Israel’s Nazi laws and policies.

http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/holocaust.htm

Not just that, when NeoNazis demonstrate

Zionists march side by side hand in hand with them. Both are the same.

Because of this information, when I see Israel killing Palestinian children to sell their Kidneys to rich New Yorkers, I don’t blame Jews, I blame Nazis because Zionists are not Jews they are Nazis.

Again the bitch tries to scare you with Islamic super state, and again I will give the Zionist bitch the same reply I’ve given the bitch before.

It is up to us how we govern our lands, not you and your Nazi Israel. Not Israelis loyal slave America, and not America’s loyal slave Britain. The people in central Asia will decide whether they want to reunite in to an Islamic state or remain within the borders dictated by the Russian Empire. And the same applies to the populations of Muslim republics in what is now Russia.

It is their choice and not your Zionist bitch.

When the Islamic state is recreated it can negotiate with Russia on their behalf.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2009/07/23/2009-07-23_2_new_jersey_mayors_arrested_in_sweeping_money_laundering_probe.html

“It is practicing Jews who are saying Zionists are not Jews”

I said that there was a small minority who said this – but there are an awful lot more practicising Jews who support the state of Israel – but you prefer to define them away as not being Real Jews – who gave you this right??

As for your views on Russia – do you really think that Russia would agree to such a secession by what it sees as its own republics. If you do you are clearly living in the realms of fantasy? So we now have three nuclear powers involved in your proposed Saladin solution don’t we? You need to be careful some of your allies see the break up of the Soviet Union as being the saddest day in history.

Another question – do you believe this week’s sucide bombings in Moscow were justified??

Stephen,

“allies see the break up of the Soviet Union as being the saddest day in histor”

We all hate you more then we disagree with each other though.

The states of the soviet union separated, and the southern part of Ireland separated from Britain. Most feel it is only a matter of time before Scotland, Wales and the northern part of Ireland too split. I don’t see it is so far fetched to assume Russia will realise it is more trouble then it is worth to keep provinces that don’t want to be kept.

And Larry, the Salahudin Solution is for Palestine.

I was about to answer your question. Then I remembered, the Blair thread.

You are someone who believes in innocence before guilt.

So I will through that same slogan back at you and say, who ever did it is innocent until proven guilty.

So no one can say what they did was wring until they have been convicted in a court of law.

It is a silly argument isn’t it?

If you agree stop using such a silly argument to defend the war criminal Blair.

I didn’t ask about innocence or guilt in the case of the Moscow suicide bombers that would have been a matter for the courts if they were still alive – and yes I would have expected the court to have gone through due process and for the Russian State to have protected the accused from physical violence (at the State’s cost) during the trial period. Perhaps you should be aware that sometimes people are accused (and even convicted) of murders which they did not commit – remember the Guildford 6.

The question was whether you thought the bombings were justified or not? Strange that you cannot give a simple answer to a simple question>

Stephen,

you sound so reasonable, but I do not trust you. You ask if bombings are “justified”, and yet you say it was “right to dispose of Saddam”, presumably despite the immense “colateral damage”. Oh yes, you probably “regret” that. Something tells me that it all comes down to sides with you.

Incidentally, was it you that criticised me on the “CIA Attacked French Civilians with LSD” thread?

Ask your civil partner Larry what reply I give her when he asks something so stupied. I can’t be bothered to repeat myself for a filthy lying racist Zionist Nazi bastard.

Because I don’t think Curiosity is your reason for typing that. I think you are making a point, a very nasty point that only a Zionist would make. So go ask your fellow Nazi, he asked me such stupied questions, so I’m sure he will share the answer I gave him with you, if you beg real nice.

The Nazi, lying, racist and Zionist are meant as a statement of fact, the filthy and bastard are meant as insults but you can accept those two words as statement of fact if you want.

Arsalan

If you had any worth in my eyes your insults might count for something – but I’m sure they satisfy some inner need in yourself and perhaps divert your aggression away from where it could do some damage.

You still haven’t answered my question – yes or no is sufficient.

Love and kisses

Clark

It comes down to doing what is right with me. There was also immense costs removing Hitler – it doesn’t mean that it was wrong to do so. I wouldn’t use the term “collateral” damage though – this indicates that such decisions should be taken without a view as to their likely costs.

As for taking sides – there are many US, Israeli and British actions which I have opposed – as well as some which I favour. My guess is that you probably have a much more partisan viewpoint than my own. I also have the view that fascists should be stood up to – whether they were in Spain, Italy, Nazi Germany, Iraq or the Islamists – do you have such a consistent viewpoint?

I wasn’t even aware of the CIA/LSD thread – so no it wasn’t me.

“Perhaps you should be aware that sometimes people are accused (and even convicted) of murders which they did not commit – remember the Guildford 6.”–stephen

You’re very ‘cool’ Stephen. But you should be aware that it was the Guilford 4 and the Birmingham Six. If you’re really so bothered about innocents who are wrongly convicted, one would think you would know that. And then there was the Maguire Seven. But of all of them, you’d think that the involvement of Daniel Day-Lewis, Emma Thompson and Pete Postlethwaite would improve your memory of the Guilford 4.

I too was struck by you saying that it was right to get rid of Saddam “and the Taliban” – as if the latter had gone somewhere. Tell me, what exactly do you think has been achieved so far by both invasions — apart from the hanging of Saddam Hussein??

He was never allowed to testify about his relationship with the United States. You know that, don’t you. “You’re a bastard but you’re our bastard – and when we’re finished with you …”

“there are many US, Israeli and British actions which I have opposed”–stephen

Such as?

“It comes down to doing what is right with me.”–stephen

What has been ‘done right’ so far in Afghanistan?

What inner need are you satisfying by being here Stephen?

dreoilin there is only thing that was achieved the the invasions were Israels wars were fought to achieve Israeli aims without Israeli lives being lost.

Stephen is right Germany was defeated at a high price. And to defeat Israel may be a high price too, but I’m sure we will all agree that it will be a price worth paying.

Israel must be defeated,

and apatite must end.

Here is another boycott Israel link:

http://www.inminds.co.uk/boycott-israel.html

“there are many US, Israeli and British actions which I have opposed”

Such as?

The overthrow of Allende and US interference in much of Latin and Central America.

Torture in Guantanamo, Iraqui jails and elsewhere

The Vietnam War

The Israeli massacres in the Lebanese refugee camps.

The disproportionate use of violence in response to rocket attacks

The building of the Wall

The treatment of Mordecai Vanunu

The fialure to talk with the PLO for many years, the delay in establishing homelands for the Palestinians

Suez

The overthrow of Mossadeq

The support for the Shah

and many others.

But whenever they want to stand up to fascists and totalitarians and support the establishment of democracies they have my support.

“And to defeat Israel may be a high price too, but I’m sure we will all agree that it will be a price worth paying.”

Why cannot you accept that both the Jews and the Palestinian desire to have their own homelands have legitimacy – and that this can only be achieved by mutual recognition and compromise?

Don’t you understand that it is the behaviour of you and your ilk that harden the resolve of some Israelis not to compromise?

Stephen because I choose to have it on someone elses land. They choose to have it by exterminataion and expellsion.

This is what you Zionists try to pretend you don’t understand.

Stephen these slogans that you use, such as ” and that this can only be achieved by mutual recognition and compromise?”

Are just slogans.

In reality what it means is a ethnic cleansing of the Non-Jews in the land you choose to call Israel. While allowing someone does you choose not to murder to live in the concentration camps you call the Palestinian territories.

“But whenever they want to stand up to fascists and totalitarians and support the establishment of democracies they have my support.”

Was that supposed to be an answer to this?

“what exactly do you think has been achieved so far by both invasions [Afghanistan and Iraq] apart from the hanging of Saddam Hussein?”

As for this:

“the delay in establishing homelands for the Palestinians”

The Palestinians have always had a ‘homeland’. Israel is determined to take it all from them, and apparently by extermination if necessary, via F-16s, bulldozers and blockades.

Stephan if it was acceptable for People to go there and kick everyone out of their homes, and then assume those that have been kicked out would suddenly say, “lets live together side by side as two friendly states”, the Palestinians left there homes and have said, “There are some people from Europe,America and other places who think this land is their’s, lets just leave our homes and our farms, give it all to them and move away, then live together in harmony.”

But that didn’t happen then, and it isn’t going to happen now.

Stephen let me put it this way. At the turn of the century when Zionism was first founded, and the Ottoman Khilafat was on the brink of collapse.

The founder of Zionism the atheist Theodor Herzl offered to pay the Khilafah a huge amount of money for access to Palestine.

The Khalif replied:

“to have the scalpel cut my body is less painful than to witness Palestine being detached from the Khilafah state and this is not going to happen …let the Jews keep their millions and once the Khilafah is torn apart one day, then they can take Palestine without a price.”

And that is exactly what happened when the Khilafah was destroyed. The Zionists got for free what they couldn’t buy.

And after the Khilafah is re-established, it will be taken back.

You know this, that is why you tried to frighten people who are against the aid to the Karimov regime, that if he collapses Khilafah will be re-established.

You tried to fain concern about the people he boils alive.

But you know boiling people alive is the only way he is managing to keep his Zionist friendly government.

And yes you are right and Craig is wrong, it is likely the Khilafah will replace Karimov, and when it does, your Israel will be next.

Where we differ is I see it as a good thing, and you see it as a bad.

I think you will find that many Jews will go as far back as Moses in arguing that Israel is their homeland. The history however doesn’t really help matters. Both sides believe they have valid claims – and both do, and both have committed gross injustices in the past.

The only sensible resolution is a multi state solution and mutual recognition. Attribution of blame is extremely difficult and doesn’t actually achieve anything.

Compromise is a wonderful thing – but is hard for those who have to do it.

Stephen, do you have no answer to this?

“what exactly do you think has been achieved so far by both invasions [Afghanistan and Iraq] apart from the hanging of Saddam Hussein?”

Stephen and Muslims will go as far back as Moses too because he is one of our Prophets.

I find it strange that Zionists will use Moses as a justification, considering the majority of them including the founder of Zionism are atheists.

Very strange indeed!

Stephen what you call “multi state solutio” Non-Zionists call apatite, ethnic cleansing and genocide.

The compromise will come after the invasion. You will find that the Palestinians are every forgiving for the injustices they received at the hands of the Zionists. The negotiations will be about if/how we all live together in Palestine.

If/how houses and lands that had their inhabitance exterminated or expelled are returned to their true owners.

I can’t really answer how that will be resolved. I am not a Palestinian.

But after the liberation, I may decide to become one.

I would hope there are Zionist settlers who would choose to remain as Jewish Palestinians after the invasion.

Israel is going to end, the Khilafah will be re-established and it will end.

The only uncertainty are will the people who re-establish it and invade Israel be people like me, who have no animosity with Jews and are willing to live side by side with them as equal citizens. Or would victory be given to some others who don’t share my views.

If it is people like me, they will have to obey us and tolerate you.

If it is them, we will have to obey them, and be not so willing to compromise.

But even the worst of us aren’t Zionists, so you will find, even if the other lot are the ones that rule the Muslim world and liberate Palestine, they will behave better towards the Zionists then the Zionists are now behaving towards the Palestinians.

Much better, because we are not you, none of us are anything like you, including the worst of us.

If I lived in an Islamic state, and people behaved like you towards Jews, I would rebel.

You wont, now, because you and me are very different.

arsalan – I saw this a day or two ago, it suprised me – the israeli “settlers” showing signs of actually thinking about getting on with the neighbours :-

http://warincontext.org/2010/04/01/one-state-realism/

I don’t really know what to make of it,

never having been there to know what it’s actually like, but it looks like maybe the beginning of something different ? Maybe.