a really good sign would be that the uk will not be seeking further sanctions against iran .

a really good sign would be that the uk along with the eu will now seek to break the siege on gaza.

instead i suspect the only sign we will get is the uk encouraging the eu to follow in obamas footsteps.

Something’s wrong here. I’m almost beginning to feel a sense of hope.

Please do not show hope or optimism in your comments or you will be shunned on this blog.

This will be small fry in comparison to standing up to Israel, as per @wendy’s comment. But it is encouraging, and feels quite peculiar for the Tories – but not quite as weird as New Labour’s staunch defence of the City. Still, we should wait until it’s on paper – the lobbying strength of capital must not be underestimated.

Mixed views on this.

Firstly, glad to see Osborne is prepared to stand up to the Europhobe right. But I am fundamentally unconvinced this new Directive is at all meaningful in reforming the financial services industry.

The idea that hedge fund leverage, for example, is in itself a source of instability and therefore needs to be regulated is highly debatable. The FSA has research out on this very topic, and the conclusion is that hedge funds are much less leveraged than people assume – their borrowings are typically 2 to 3x net equity, which is way less than banks for example.

So I rather feel that this could have been political capital better spent currying favour with the Europhobes and holding the line against this Directive – because there will be more important EU battles to be fought, like new Directives on banking regulation, and he’s going to need the Duncan-Smith’s of this world in line for those.

Maybe I’m wrong about how it all works, that you have slap the extremists early and hard to get them into line, in which case glad Osborne did what he did. But this particular Directive is so far beside the point in terms of reforming what’s wrong with the banking industry that it might have been a missed opportunity to give the Europhobes something to get excited about.

Don’t much care what the City thinks about the Directive, but it’s hard to see what good it is going to do.

Take a look at the markets, Craig.

btw I am not in disagreement with your sentiments but please don’t buy that house for a while.

Whether or not these measures will do much to prevent a repetition of the current disaster, it’s at least a step in the right direction and shows that the Tories are more prepared to take steps against the City than New “Labour” ever were. Such was the extent of the deregulation and the ‘hands off’ attitude of the FSA under New “Labour” that Lehmans, Goldman Sachs et al used their UK based subisidiaries to carry out practices which were outlawed even in the home of free market deregulation, the USA. If the SEC bans something, it has to be particularly unethical and dangerous, yet the FSA, at Brown’s behest, complacently allowed such behaviour, (because it naturally attracted business from markets which had had the sense to ban such risky behaviour). Brown stubbornly continued to oppose all attempts to impose regulation on the banks even AFTER the crash. When you consider just how right-wing authoritarian and monetarist New “Labour” has become, it’s quite inexcusable how many Labour voters continued to blindly support the party at the last election, conveniently forgetting the Iraq invasion too. Given that Miliband, (or perhaps Miliband), is likely to become their next leader, it’s obvious that the party has learnt nothing from defeat. Cynically, they know they can probably rely on a backlash against the cuts to get re-elected rather than having to return to socialist principles and alienating their “filthy rich” friends in the City. If people simply stopped supporting political parties in the same way as they do football teams, democracy would be much improved, and New “Labour” would be condemned to the political wilderness until it realised it could no longer rely on the automatic support of its sheep-like core voters without having some socialist policies.

If you want something to moan about … http://order-order.com/2010/05/19/minister-for-the-arms-trade

Surely the interest of the City and the national interest are automatically the same thing.

It’s either self-delusion or incorrigible optimism to believe Osborne and Cameron mean to take on the bankers.

The Rothschild synarchy (now calling themselves the Inter-Alpha Group) and the Anglo-Dutch central banking and fiat money system generally that has led us into debt servitude and warfare over centuries are the issues.

Our survival as viable nation states depends on our willingness now to jettison fiat money and move to government issued currencies at the fixed Bretton-Woods exchange rates.

John Hoefle is one of many US economists calling for a return to physical economy and the Glass-Steagle banking regulations set up under New Deal.

http://larouchepac.com/lpactv?nid=14469

Similarly Bill Engdahl has contributed many insightful essays at globalreseach.He also has his own blog.

Don’t forget Gerald Celente either for gutsy,no frills economic commentary.

Whatever research you end up doing you’ll know it’s been worth the effort when you can work out that the new coalition outfit here represents no threat whatever to the financial terrorists who got us in the mess we’re now in! (LOL)

If you haven’t already done so yet, TAKE YOUR MONEY OUT OF THE BANK NOW!!

Arriving for work at the U.K. Treasury last week, the incoming chief secretary, David Laws, found a note from his predecessor, Liam Byrne, offering advice on the job.

“Dear Chief Secretary, I’m afraid to tell you there’s no money left,” Laws cited it as saying.

Read more here:

http://preview.bloomberg.com/news/2010-05-17/

u-k-has-no-money-left-treasury-

minister-learns-from-predecessor-s-note.html

You’ll have to stitch the link together as I’ve broken it up to fit here.

Who cares what the hedge funds do or how much they gamble.

The only public policy issue is to make sure that gamblers harm only themselves.

What’s needed is a clear indication that the government will not bail the bastards out or the silly buggers who lend them money.

What’s more the silly buggers who run the high street banks should not be allowed to invest in anything but triple A rated instruments. That would prevent them from losing depositors money on stupid loans to psychopathic hedge funds.

And before someone else points out that in fact the crap mortgage bonds that made Northern Rock a Wreck were all triple A rated, let me say that that raises a very interesting question. That those bonds were crap was widely known to the profit of many. Goldman Sachs were shorting them as they created them.

So how come the rating agencies are still in business? Why has there been not class action suit brought against them? And how come the US government has done nothing to create a trustworthy rating system?

My own guess is that the property boom in the US, Canada, Australia, Britain and elsewhere was a privatized stimulus programme, for which governments always knew they would eventually have to pick up the tab.

And what was the purpose of the property boom? To keep the economy humming while not only low end manufacturing but also high-tech manufacturing, software development and financial services back office jobs were outsourced to the plantations of Asia.

So what next? Massive money printing and currency devaluation against currencies of the export economies, which means importing inflation and a decline in the standard of living throughout the west.

But at least the unemployed can draw some hope from this. When the pound falls to about ten thousand to the ounce of gold, the British worker will be almost competitive with his or her counterpart in Asia, though perhaps at a disadvantage in terms of experience and education.

Alfred: It’s not a two-minute read, but Matt Taibbi lays out the case against Goldman Sachs very well in this article:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/%3bkw=%5B3351,11459%5D

The property, tech, stock etc. booms were all arranged by those best placed to take advantage of both the boom and the bust in every instance.

A large part of the reason for the property boom, in the UK at least, was Thatcher’s dismantling the limits and safeguards on borrowing. That exploded the price of property, because everyone effectively had a much larger bid with which to compete with each other. “Gazumping” was unheard of before prices started rising so rapidly, that the value of a property leapt even between a sale price being agreed and the deal going through.

Countries like Greece cannot just print money to inflate their way out of their debts, which Germany arguably did after WW-I, because they are tied to the Euro.

Given the huge amount of money the banksters are taking from us, it’s pretty clear the rest of us are going to be worse off. This is a zero sum game, it’s not like they’ve found a way to mine an undiscovered deposit of cash.

Don’t Underestimate the Intelligence of UK Judges.

We once met one in India

Of course they Know all about

The War on Terror

And the Politicians

Our High Court Judges Are Not Stupid

Unlike in The US, most of them are NOT Political Appointments

I met mine in a swimming pool in Kerala. His wife and him went the expensive way, whilst we went the cheap way on a last minute bargain due to the “terrorism” or some other stuff…

His wife was lovely – and he was O.K.

They were Both Incredibly POSH and were probably wondering what they were doing swimming with us Northern Oiks – but they Were Incredibly Polite and Gracious…

And we all appreciated it when Afternoon Tea was Served in the Most Old circa 1920′s Traditional Way with cakes and biscuits and all kinds of exquisite tastes….

I doubt if this happens much in England any more except in extremely High Polite Society…

Paul McCartney and the One Legged One had been there before us…

And it was really nice.

But what you need to realise is that these Judges have been dealing with Criminals all their lives…

They have to find the TRUTH

That is Their Job

They Know ALL The Criminals in The Political System…

But It is Not Their Job To Bring Them To Trial…

That is The Job of Others…

The INDEPENDENT JUDGES – which is most of them rather than the Few Political Appointments…

Are Just Waiting To Do Their Job

They Don’t Want it Outsourced To The Hague

They Want Our War Criminals Tried in a Court of Law in ENGLAND

They Want Justice Just as Much As I

Even For The Scottish War Criminal

Anthony Charles Lynton Blair

Tony

US bank head-banger Elizabeth Warren says the whole US economic system has to be changed. Everything is anti-competitive, interest-based and wasteful.

In my opinion, the only way out of the interest-blackmail deadlock is to ban all interest charges world-wide except for the essential costs of administration. Starve the bankers and the industries they prop-up. The Maggie theory of making people rich, in order to persuade them to divest themselves of excessive wealth in the direction of non-essential services and goods, is obscene.

This country needs a thorough IMF thrashing to wean its wealthy from Maggie’s utterly immoral, market theories. The rich should be stripped of the rolls of fat they have embezzled in the last thirty years, to repay the deficit that has been diverted into their pockets.

And what’s more, it looks like it’s going to get it. George Osborne will be eating even more humble pie very soon. If that’s good news for Craig, it’s good enough for me too.

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anno,

I personally tried what you are suggesting….

Which was to give all my money away…

No you don’t understand….

I am not talking about lending it

I am talking about giving it away – never expecting any return whatsoever….

I not only gave all the money I had away, but I also gave it away to the extent of my credit cards…

I couldn’t give any more away

That was in 1985

They wouldn’t let me go to work

My Girlfriend Was Really Upset and Beat Me Up…

Her Dad wouldn’t lend her any money – despite saying before “If You Ever Need Anything” – he would help her he didn’t….

So she sold all the Jewellry Her Grandmother had given her before she died…

So we could eat…

And she Nursed Me Back To Mental Health…and I went back to work after 6 months and climbed my way back…

But when I had given everything we had away….I felt like I was in Heaven….

I hadn’t given My Girlfriend Now Wife away, and Just Possibly Our Money Given Away Saved The Lives Of Several Thousand People Starving To Death in Africa…

I Did Try

I Thought I was Perfectly Sane in a Mad World At The Time.

So anno, are you going to lend YOUR money at 0% interest?

Tony

The original posted here around 4 am on Sunday morning has probably been deleted…

But I couldn’t fucking believe it. The Rope Was over Half an Inch Thick and Should Easily Have Taken More Then Two Tonnes….

My wife Blaimed Out Big Fat Fluffy Cat Millie…

She said – she has been attacking that rope for the last 5 years….

She uses it as her Scratching Post and Her Chewing Post after She Has Caught a Frog And We have Rescued It From Her Mouth….

And Put The Frog Back In The Pond…

Anyway I restrung it for £10

15 Metres of 8mm rope – twisted 3 ply on the side that broke…

With another ply supporting the existing old rope that didn’t…

And My Mate Tested It Yesterday = Both of Us Swinging Whilst My Wife Was Watching and Doing The Commentary….

He even played my New Guitar

It Ain’t Broke Yet

Tony

Its extremely difficult to rebuild an old British Engine in an Old British Sports Car when You Are 22…

So after my wife and I had got back from cycling round Richmond Park including Cycling Past Ian Dury’s Poets Corner…

And we had Prepared The Evening Meal…

I said – Can I Help You???

And he showed me the problem – he was trying to get the New Cam Belt Back On After Rebuilding The Lower Part of The Engine…

And he did that….

Then he was trying to get the screws back into the Cam Belt Retensioner…

And he did that….

And all I could do was try and help and get my fingers dirty and try and use my strength to move it – but he is much stronger than me – and it is a really difficult job – needing both strength and nimble hands…

When I was 22, I was under my sports car, and had given up trying to solve this problem move it – shift it – hit it – I simply could not do it…

And I asked my 70 year old Dad…

And he would crawl down in the muck and the Grease…

And Just Do It…

I think My Son Has Inherited His Grand Dad’s Skills

They Both Amaze Me

My Father Died Many Years Before My Son Was Born.

I Don’t Know If Anyone Understands This.

Tony

Even when I am for example walking round B&Q looking for some paint…People come up to me and Say Hello Mate – How Are You Doing?

And sometimes People Come To Me and Say Hello Toby Mate? _ How Are You Doing?

And most of the time I have absolutely No Idea who they are, and don’t remember ever seeing them or speaking to them ever before in my life.

I guess they think I am an old Rock Star…

Strangely enough the same thing happens to my mate..but he goes out of his way to look like a Rock Star…

All I did was not go to the barber for several years and dye my hair blonde.

No it ain’t me

David Coverdale lives in America the last I heard

Tony

“…but Matt Taibbi lays out the case against Goldman Sachs…”

Yes, and as Goldman Sachs were running the Bush White House and Treasury at the same time they were running the mortgage scam, the US government could not have not known what was going on, which means that the scam was government approved.

And, asked Gregory (Scotland Yard detective): “Is there any other point to which you would wish to draw my attention?”

Holmes: “To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time.”

Gregory: “The dog did nothing in the night-time.”

Holmes: “That was the curious incident.”

Substitute Government of UK and other countries affected by the mortgage scam for “dog” and you can see why the scam must have been known of and approved by all governments.

In Canada, the scam against the public has been executed more adroitly than in the US/UK by the simple expedient of having a Government agency (CMHC) buy the zero down 40-year amortization mortgages from the banks before they go bad. In fact, they have yet to go bad, although they almost certainly will, since house prices here, relative to incomes, are almost twice what they are in the US — and in Canada, unlike the US, mortgage interest is not tax deductable.

http://www.greaterfool.ca/2010/05/13/crushed-in-calgary/

This may have already been slightly edited by someone’s computer…

Like when I wrote fucking it might appear as flipping

I don’t understand why people try and water down what I try and say

Why not just fucking delete the lot instead…

It is also possible that he is talking complete bollocks and they were caught flipping on camera…

But I thought

I have done that….

But they didn’t have CCTV cameras everywhere then….

And She Was Selling Bedrooms

And There were a lot of Beds that we thought needed to be Christened.

But He Is Incredibly “Conservative”

He Doesn’t Even Drink Coffee

Tony

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opmoc

Joined: 18 Oct 2006

Posts: 813

PostPosted: Thu 20 May 2010 2 23 am Reply with quoteBack to top

My Lad and his Friends have been doing this thing for over 5 years since the age of 16….

And they have worked with over 100 different people

And every year since they were allowed to do it as adults at the age of 18 and go and do an Aid Project in Ecuador for 6 weeks…

They have continued going on holiday Every Year and Sometimes Several Times a Year…

And They Are All Kids Sometimes Working Really Late…

And Some Enormous Hells Angel Comes in – And Tries To Pass a Dodgy Note

And there is little spotty kid looking back at him

And he says sorry we can’t accept this…

Have you got any real money?

Because if you want it – you have got to pay for it with real money…

And all these kids work together and they will not take any shit Off Their Customers

Or Their Bosses

Tony

Just to point out that Brown made a habit of either pretenting to propose or indicatng he was going to accept proposals for progressive reforms, only to back out or delay at the last minute. Jack Straw had a similar habit. Let’s wait and see if Osborne actually follows through.

This might interest you: http://www.money.co.uk/article/1005322-demystifying-swiss-bank-accounts.htm

If it’s even partly true that the UK loses $105 bn tax income annually, it would be a good place to start cutting the deficit; wouldn’t it?

I was struck by Glenn’s use (his post above, addressed to Alfred) pf the neat neologism “bankster”. It probably shows that I don’t get out enough that is was the first time I’d heard it.

Others may like to have this background on the suggested origins of the term (from urbandictionary.com):

A portmanteau of “banker” and “gangster”, popularized by (among others) the economist Murray N. Rothbard, used by him to attack what he held to be the inherently fraudulent nature of Fractional-Reserve banking (as opposed to 100% gold reserve banking, which he defended as the only honest form of banking). Frequently used in reference to The Fed.

In more recent popular usage, often refers in a vague way to the forces of “Wall Street”, or to those persons in the financial services industry who grow rich despite the continued impoverishment of those who depend on their services, and despite their apparent inability to succeed in business without constant government assistance.

“The Fed is an organized cartel of banksters, who are creating inflation, ripping off the public, destroying the savings of the average American.”

“The banksters crashed the economy, but thanks to generous federal bailouts, they won’t have to sacrifice their fat bonuses.”

I’d have said that the appeal alsp comes from the similarity to “fraudster” and “shyster”. At least the English language has good resources for naming WASP crimes.

They will be flogging off whats left of public enterprise to their mates for firesale prices. Libys, Tory, underneath the mask all the same. Cut corporate tax rates, while increasing personal rates. Yup the suckers are gonna get hit for more cash calls over that term. Is it not funny how the UK government acts like a plc. Is it a plc, is it bankrupt

Tony Opmoc

That really is it. Just one more stream of total irrelevance from your private life, double spaced to make it even more obtrusive, and you are banned for good.

Really sorry, but I think I have been incredibly patient.

As other commenters have frequently suggested, get your own blog for this stuff.

UK is a plc. PLC plc. Print Loadsa Cash. plc

well well, the Conservatives are realising which side the economy is buttered from, about time that they step back from their attack of Eurosepsis.

The EU is at the cross roads though, too many hangers on who are unable to pay their way are sapping the strenght of the EU motors.

The rightwing brigades throughout Europe are getting stronger and their messages will get more pronounced support at the next elections in Germany and France, they cannot afford to bail out those who are not prepared to shrapen their act, Greece is just a start.

Lets wait and see what is being doen over offshore tax havens. Conservative estimates are running a close to 1 trillion that are bypassing the exchequer.

Why rae we not demanding that companise produce were they sell, that they show social responsibilitiy of sorts?

Doha has failed because of our inability to see the developing worlds arguments and needs, so anybody thinking of reviving these overarching restraints on the developing counbtries to trade, think again, thats passee, imho.

Europe has to make some hard decisions if it wants to keep a steady course, investing in our own capacities, rather than multiplying dependencies on cheap far eastern manufacturing. Instead of globalising further, we have to move away from this free for all that has presented us with large multinationals, by fostering limited protectionism, making sure that we keep a self sufficiency of sorts, especially when it comes to energy and food supplies.

I hope Mr. Osborne will say sorry for alledgedly calling Sarkozy a short gnome, now he’ll has to work with the guy.

“My letter to Nick Clegg on Palestine

As deputy PM, Nick Clegg, it is your duty to live up to your own words on the daily atrocities happening in the occupied territories”

Michael Mansfield

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/may/20/nick-clegg-palestine-israel-gaza?showallcomments=true#start-of-comments

Ingo

‘Doha has failed because of our inability to see the developing worlds arguments and needs,’

Within the last year I heard one plummy-voiced city commentator state the Chinese economy was fairly inconsequential in terms of GDP. Yo! Apart from the fact that they make everything, including the air-conditioning tools I am in the process of purchasing.

Our politicians know exactly what is going on in the world, but they spend their whole time posturing and making idiots of themselves. British scam mentality and state terror, are finished as a way forward. The UK’s reputation as a bona fide world player is finished. The same mentality that has allowed the banks to steal all our and everybody else’s money, has also been at work in trade and manufacturing.

Why would anybody want to buy a pump from Birmingham, made in China, when they can buy direct from China itself? The whole British economy and foreign policy is Lies, lies and more Lies.

The LibDem Tory pact is just another layer of whitewash over the already flaking layers underneath. Motto: UK Fuctatus, Bonus Continuendum Est.

Anyway, Craig, with regard to Tony_ Opmoc, the question is whether you are more irritated by the idea of a wealthy man giving away all of his self-made wealth through frustration at the selfishness and greed of the political class of the UK, or his stream of consciousness?

When things get tough, the crew get airlifted onto the lifeboat, and the captain goes down with his ship. Your position as a supporter of the incumbent coalition with the founders of Britain’s economic distress, viz the Conservative party, is a great deal more annoying than anything tony_opmoc may have said as I see it.

If the captain looks after his crew, then and only then can he be considered to have discharged his duty and be airlifted to safety too. You have taken the most enourmous risk in pinning your hopes on this election. It was essential in political terms because we had to remove New Labour, whom you accused me of supporting for some reason, but it is pretty nauseous to see you proclaiming future hope for this unholy alliance of fools. When you take the blindfold off, you will see that you pinned the tail on the donkey’s nose.

A little more George Osborne style humility required, thank you.

Would not dare call the Chinese economic capabilities ‘incosequential’

What i question is our ability to organise a capacity thats based on tangible assets and constant modernising, not occaisional or never, as it used to be the case, the reason why british Motorcycling became uncompetitive and a byword for bad workmanship. Nobody was ever concerned with modernising and bettering the product, making motor parts with machines designed in 1898, other machines from the early 1920′s, with all profits shared out, rather than re invested to a larger extend.

Thats whats wrong, nobody has the trust to start something that has a long term sustainable low profit margin, everyone wants a short term high profit margin, regardless of consequences, the arch dilemma.

Unless we see the longterm sustainable profits as a goal, with ethical and environmental considerations thrown into the melee, we will not see an end to these ripp off merchands and quick fix dealers.

Interesting article from a few years back on how MI5 and MI6 use “journalists” to mislead the public, empire build, start wars etc, from one who was so used. Mentions bluffer Gardner too.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2007/09/mi6-mi5-intelligence-briefings

Capt Scarlet ?” It is interesting to view your article reference to see just another example of how MI5 / MI6 (and CSIS in Canada too) have used journalists to spread propaganda to the public.

15 years ago John Alderson, former Chief Constable of Devon and Cornwall voicing his concerns about the direction that MI5 was heading, (warning us even way back then) said – “MI5 .. Infiltrate organizations, people’s jobs and lives. They operate almost like a cancer. At the moment the acorn of a STASI has been planted”.

To see how these same so called intelligence organizations have also abused our human rights industry just view this:

http://tinyurl.com/HumanRightsIndustry

It does seem a pity that our intelligence services have done what former Chief Constable Alderson tried to warn us about ?” crossed the line from their legitimate role in intelligence gathering to being a secret police; changed their role from being our protectors to trampling on our democracy

Anno -

err no. I gave up a brilliant diplomatic career on principle, and since then I started two highly profitable African companies and have gien up over 80% of them – for nothing -to Africa workers. So my problem with Tony Opmoc is not in the least related to his advocacy of surrendering wealth.

It is connected to the fact that his occasional very perceptive and useful posts are far outweighed by his maudlin alcoholic ramblings.

I agree with Michael Wendy, in fact, I will speak to Royal Naval contacts who might be able to influence the MOD on Naval escorts or at the very least create some relevant conversations in the wardroom.

Roderick

I remember John Alderson on telly from way back, during the Thatcher days. He was much too liberal and intellectual for the secret state. A man of immense common sense too. I think he may have got involved with the Liberals when he retired.

I’ve always felt that the intelligence services were much more trouble than they’re worth and much more of a self-perpetuating entity consumed of its own importance than a productive and useful public service.

I haven’t seen aught since to disabuse me of that view and if anything it’s only been reinforced by their antics during the Blair years.

I suspect John Alderson held a similar view.

I think that even during Leon Brittan’s time as Home Sec he was so unhappy with the performance of MI5 that he threatened a drastic reorganisation. That must have frightened them. It’s said that they leaked some rumours about him.

He went to Europe shortly after that, as ya do.

I hope he explained to young Clegg just what a nonsense the whole thing is.

Anno wrote: “This country needs a thorough IMF thrashing to wean its wealthy from Maggie’s utterly immoral, market theories.”

Unfortunately, that is the very last thing that happens when the IMF ride into town. They don’t go after the rich – of course! – they tell a state to slash and burn its welfare programmes, to sell off any state assets in a mass privitisation scheme, to cut schools, hospitals and state pensions, to grind down on the low end of public sector workers, and to tax the poor more just for starters.

Show me an example of the IMF giving a hard time to the rich – in any country, at any time – sheesh! What they’ll insist on would make even Thatcherites a tad uncomfortable.

glenn: one of Tony’s most recent “very perceptive and useful posts” gave a link to the blog of an Australian professor of economics called Bill Mitchell. He writes at great length and in great detail about the current fiscal situation and is scathing about the baleful influence and agenda of the IMF.

Echoing your comment above for instance he writes:

“This ideological slant of these austerity programs is not headline news. It is all about fiscal responsibility and living within your means. But imagine if the tax rises were aimed at the corporate sector or the high income earners and the spending cuts on corporate welfare and military expenditure. Imagine if luxury cars and clothing and wines were banned to “improve the current account”. Then the ideological nature of these impositions would become transparent. There would be such an outcry the world over”.

http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=9632

I can’t recommend him highly enough (though he can be a bit heavy going at times).

The Tories and MI5. Like a bunch of nannyless schoolboys.

Idiots all.

Public school, eh. Leaders my arse.

The only sane one was Harold Wilson.

Love the way Callaghan lied; even Brown lied all those years later to protect these idiots from deserved public ridicule. That’s all censorship amounts to in this country. Protecting idiots and imbeciles from ridicule.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1266837/Revealed-How-MI5-bugged-10-Downing-Street-Cabinet-Prime-Ministers-15-YEARS.html?ITO=1490

Okay, who’s gonna call a false flag on this one?

http://angrysoba.blogspot.com/2010/05/north-korea-blamed-for-cheonan-sinking.html

A serious development, I’m sure you’ll agree. Sadly we can’t blame Cameron and Clegg for it as it was sunk before they were even in power.

“Okay, who’s gonna call a false flag on this one?”

Will this do?

http://kevboyle.blogspot.com/2010/05/korea-latest-false-flag-exercise.html

“I was struck by …….the neat neologism “bankster”"

You may like the collective noun for bankers. It’s a ‘wunch’. Think it over..

“..the reason why British motorcycling became uncompetitive and a byword for bad workmanship.”

The history of that industry is a paradigm for the collapse of British manufacturing as a whole. Geoff Duke, (one of Britain’s best ever racers), told an illuminating ancedote. He stated he would be able to win the championship on the factory Norton, (rather than his slower privateer machine). The racing team agreed that he could win the championship on the works bike, but the board had calculated that if he did so, he would earn more than the directors, so they were instructed to turn him down. Duke then approached Gilera. The head of the family agreed that he could win the championship on their bike, but said that he couldn’t make such a decision without further consultation. He left the room and an old Italian lady, dressed in black, came in, walked silently around Duke, and left. The head of Gilera then came back in and said, “Mamma says you can do it. Welcome to Gilera!” Duke went on to win 5 succesive world championships for the team, ending Norton’s dominance of the sport.

A wunch of bankers?

Now, let’s see…

Angrysoba,

I’m listening to Craig Murray’s right-wing buddy Alex Jones as I’m also curious as to whether they’ll say that the South Korea boat incident was a false flag.

The answer, of course, is yes.

But then the controversy in Bangkok is also somehow a false flag.

And AGW is a false flag.

But it’s interesting to note the one false flag we know of in the States – the original tea party. So funny that the truthy 911 truthers felt that they had to imitate the tea partiers.

All those nutters who say anyone who postulates a conspiracy is a nutter, might find it instructive to read Carroll Quigley’s “The Anglo-American Establishment,” a history of a vast imperialist conspiracy funded, initially, by Cecil Rhodes, and still going, despite having been largely responsible for the WW2, the collapse of the British Empire and various other disasters.

http://www.amazon.com/Anglo-American-Establishment-Quigley-Carroll/dp/0945001010

The implication is that the shenanigans of MI5, et al. may pale into near insignificance compared with those of the private sector.

MJ: Thanks for the link to Bill Mitchell’s blog, it looks very promising indeed. If you’re interested in economics you might try reading Ravi Batra’s “The new golden age”. Some of his writing is linked to from his homepage:

http://www.ravibatra.com/

“Greenspan’s Fraud” is another good one.

The whole basis of “supply-side economics” is an utter fraud, but it’s been practiced by Reagan, Thatcher and their successors ever since. I wonder if this lot we’ve got in charge now are going to fall for it.

Privitising state assets is one of the best mechanisms to transfer money from the taxpayer to the investor classes – I’m appalled to read in today’s Guardian that that is precisely what Vince Cable wants to do with the Post Office.

“Interesting article from a few years back on how MI5 and MI6 use “journalists” to mislead the public.”

It’s hardly news, considering that even before WWI and the formal differentiation of MI5 and MI6, (now the SIS), MI5′s founder Vernon Kell served as an intelligence staff officer in Tientsin while also being foreign correspondent for the Daily Telegraph.

At a benefit concert where Prince Edward was the patron of the charity concerned, his bodyguards and security staff cleared the whole area in front of the stage to allow the press to take photos of him in front of the band. The enraged audience started throwing bottles and chanting, “Fuck off, Eddy!”. This was reported in the tabloids the next day as, “Edward wows audience at pop concert. Prince Edward received a rapturous reception from a crowd chanting, “Eddy, Eddy, Eddy!” Journalists don’t have to be actual members of the intelligence services in order to lie and distort the truth to favour establishment interests. The girl in the band who reported this incident to me held left-wing views and, had she been asked beforehand, would undoubtedly have said that the press was untrustworthy and regularly distorted and lied. Nevertheless, she was still rather shocked when confronted with a concrete example. I suppose seeing is disbelieving.

Some more evidence of glenn’s evidence fail …

But for an even better demonstration, go back to the 911 thread.

Craig, a successful diplomatic career in today’s terms is biding one’s time from second degree to retirement without saying anything and hoping for a puppet re-stringing as a grey suit as a reward.

In my opinion what you gave up was a bum job going nowhere, in order to be a successful opinion moulder on the internet. Why? because the anti-Islamic bent of the British establishment which has always blinkered this country, had started to poke its eyes out from the roots. There was an excuse for ignorance of the truth and morality of Islam when the world was ‘smaller’ in travel time, but to engage on a campaign of vilification and lies at diplomatic and political level, and instruct ambassadors to contradict evident truth, as for example in Gaza, err, we have become the laughing stock of the whole world, that a once respected nation should now have been reduced to the blatant lies of a David Miliband.

Why have the diplomats not been able to influence the previous administration? Because the influence of the Zionist bankers is stronger than the great and the good. The present coalition is flirting with the bankers like a child, and no evidence of any will to put them in their place. No grit at all from any of them. Not even a recognition that the bankers might be part of the problem rather than part of the solution.

If we trust the banks again, to lead the economy in the directions to which we all aspire, they will destroy us again. No. Get rid of them entirely, except as the French and Germans have done in the capacity of citizens’ banks. Fuck the City off for good, wherever anybody will take them. Flush their memory down the toilet of history. There isn’t any point in building our future on the sinking sands of the banks. Thanks for your generosity to Africa. May Allah reward you both.

I am uncomfortable not only with you but with many commenters who go on this “Zionist banker” meme. There is a banking lobby which has too much influence and there is a zionist lobby which has too much influence.

But the overlap between them is not enormous. The “zionist banker” stuff tends to racial stereotyping and also in many cases tends to postulate non-existent levels of organised conspiracy.

I’m actually impressed by anno, in that he’s one of the few commenters at this blog who thinks that 911 was actually done by Muslim extremists. In fact I think he’s proud of it.

Good Lord, if you need some more evidence of Larry’s evidence ‘fail’, go back to the 911 thread. Handy hint: if you want to get rid of Larry for a week or two just ask him to state the evidence supporting the official account. It’s like watching Roadrunner disappearing over the horizon…

Glenn

You might be interested to know that some countries manage very well without any post office. After all, what do we ever receive in the post except rubbish from the Inland Revenue and fliers from banks?

“What do we ever receive in the post?”

Love letters, postcards, driving licences, letters from abroad, CD’s, DVD’s, books, recycled books (amazon). Recycled clothes, stuff (ebay) magazines; birthday cards, wedding invites, cash.

Craig,

Here’s more on the Bankster (Zionist or otherwise) meme

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzlTjhGxr7Y&feature=related

with quotes on:

Conspiracies in general by Benjamin Disraeli, Joseph Patrick Kennedy, Senator William Fulbright, David Rockefeller, Henry Kissinger;

and on banksters in particular by Woodrow Wilson, Henry Ford, (New York Mayor) John Hylan, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Curtis Dall (FDR’s son-in-law), James Warburg, Senator Barry Goldwater, Professor Carroll Quigley (Havard, Princeton, Georgetown U).

Your rebuttal of this line of thought (or angysoba’s) would be of interest.

Alistair Darling said that one in four pounds coming to the exchequer come fromtax on banks. If you buy a £100,000 house on a mortgage, you end up paying an additional 200,000 in interest. That huge economic power gets concentrated into ready cash when loans are sold to third parties.

It is totally obvious from these facts that the wealth of the bankers vastly exceeds the disposable wealth of government. The Chairman of Lloyds TSB felt so powerful that he could in the past refuse to handle any money transfers to Interpal, and steps have been made to ensure that the funds that are transferred only go through United Nations middle-men.

The wealth of the banks gives them the power to twist the political allegiances of the whole world’s traders, as well as directly influencing and blackmailing governments. As Jesus, peace be upon him, is reported to have said about a simple man,’ How is it that knowledge is given to simple men, and is denied to the great scholars of our faith.’

Craig, your refusal to accept the obvious truth of the overwhelming power of the Zionist bankers, is more to do with your rejection of the truth of Islam, than your ignorance of the truth of world politics.

Owen Lee Hugh-Mann: Interesting. Even the official public record is routinely distorted. For instance, Bush addressed the NAACP, and received some jeers at one point as he smirked and made light of the record of Republicans when it comes to black civil rights. The transcript logged at the Whitehouse registered this as ‘Applause’.

“In my opinion, what you gave up was a bum job going nowhere, in order to be a successful opinion moulder on the internet.”

Hardly. Referring to that great oracle, “The Simpsons”…

Milhouse: Why don’t we put it on the internet?

Bart: No, we need to reach people whose opinion’s really matter.

Anno: Craig hasn’t denied anything about the power of the banksters. What he has said to you repeatedly is that raving on about them being Zionists, and pretending that the natural greed and lack of morality in banksters is somehow evidence of a vast Jewish conspiracy (to do what??) is more than a little objectionable.

The behaviour of banksters does not require a one-race conspiracy. There is doubtless a lot of collusion among interested parties (hedge-fund managers in particular), but that has bugger-all to do with race, and everything to do with mind-boggling avarice.

Owen, for a minute when reading your piece on Prince Edward, I thought you were referring to Prince Edward, the son of Queen Victoria and was thinking, my God, this man is Methuselah!

Actually, Glenn,

Jews and banking have been intimately connected for a long while, since Jews, unlike the European Christians in mediaeval times were not prohibited from lending money at interest. Further, Jews were excluded from public office and thus, naturally enough, pursued opportunities to gain influence and power through banking, industry and commerce just as did the Quakers, who were also subject to religious discrimination.

While stereotypes may be applied with a lack of reservation, it seems foolish to deny the great prominence of Jews (as members of an anthropological, rather than a religious, group) in American banking and American banking and financial scams. Moreover, it has been argued, perhaps with some validity, that the racism and moral double standard of some jews accounts for their lack of scruple in financial dealings.

To get to a large group to London for the first anti-Iraq war protest, we hired a bus, so I was with Muslim friends and friends of theirs etc. In conversations during the journey, I discovered my friends would not taken part in the protest if Iraq had not been a Muslim country. I then made a point of asking all of the others on the bus. Not a single Muslim said he, or she, would have taken part had Iraq not been predominantly Muslim. (I do not claim that this was a representative survey and have no idea what proportion of the Muslims who demonstated that day would have done so regardless of the religion of the country involved). Almost all of them also said they thought that Irag was under attack precisely because it was a Muslim country and would not have been

attacked otherwise. Yet they also believed that the reasons given for the war were excuses and the underlying reason was to gain control of Iraq’s oil. I agreed with this last point, obviously, so asked why they thought Iraq was being singled out because it was Muslim if the reason it was threatened with invasion was to control energy resources? I gave plenty of similar examples of US, (and past UK), imperialist policy towards non-Muslim states. They continued with their doublethink however, which, sad to say, did not surprise me. I have little doubt as to what anno’s position on bank interest charges would be if Mohammed had been in favoour of them.

Alfred, fuck off with your ‘Jewish’ smears.

Owen: WTF? Are you trying to insinuate that Muslim people are only against violence against other Muslims? Yes, I think you are. I’m surprised.

Sorry for the language. I was incensed.

No such thing as a Zionist banker?

All “conspiracy theory” and “racial stereotyping”?

It’s nice to see Craig and Cathouse Larry at one on this issue.

What the Bejeez was Edmond de Rothschild doing in Palestine from 1882 onwards? Growing vines?

Old Edmond even thought about buying the Wailing Wall during a tour in 1887!

At the end,Edmond de Roth remarked,”Without me Zionism could not have prospered,and without Zionism I could have done nothing.”

Perhaps the old man was wallowing in hubris-he wouldn’t be the first Roth to do so.

Going further back in the historical record there’s the small geopolitical priority of the Suez canal.It was this strategic asset that British planners sought,by backing Zionist aspirations for a Jewish state in Palestine,to protect at all costs.

Who bought it for them? Lionel Rothschild.

Then there’s the other small matter of the role of Zionist bankers in the history of major revolutions and wars throughout the last and ongoing in this century.

Anyone who still believes Zionist bankers and their agents play no role in all these massive human tragedies should think about taking a leaf out of old Baron Edmond’s book.

Start your own personal colony…….in CLOUD CUCKOO LAND!

Oh, hello, Apostate. Have a couple of questions for you:

1.Do you really think banking is ‘in the genes’?

2. Do you think it would be better if we were more hateful?

Those I happened to share the bus said they would not have bothered to travel to London to protest if Iraq had not been Muslim. As I made a point of saying, I have no idea how representative they were, but I found their attitude disturbing as those particular individuals, according to their own freely expressed opinions, would not have been there had the invasion been of Cuba instead. If something is wrong, it’s wrong, but their attitude was “We are protesting against an attack on our fellow Muslims.”, rather than our fellow humans. I’ve no doubt that this is by no meams represetative of all, but I myself was shocked by the attitude of those I spoke to, which is what prompted me to investigate further.

Technicolour,

remember that there is ‘groupishness’, where people support and act in favour of what they believe to be ‘their group’ – race, religion, class, whatever.

Alfred and Apostate,

I don’t know how much overlap there is between Zionists and banksters, and I wouldn’t know how to find out.

But that doesn’t matter.

When people do wrong, oppose the wrongdoing, not the people. If you oppose ‘Zionist bankers’, you just start an argument about whether Zionists are bankers are Zionists – which obscures the real matter of what is being done wrong.

Supporting the violence of a racist state is wrong.

Sucking wealth from ordinary people to fatten the rich is wrong.

Hello Alfred,

What you might have forgotten to take into consideration is that Jews – throughout the middle ages – were _specifically prohibited_ from entering pretty much any of the crafts and tradesman’s guilds. You will not find a single Jew in, for example, the Masons, because of the blatantly racist policies held against them.

If you cannot – by law! – hold public office, and you cannot enter guilds which pretty much held a “closed shop” on crafts and trades, it is not unsurprising that Jews went into finance, as one of the few avenues in which they were allowed to make a living.

The fact that such some large financial institutions have a Jewish component to their background can actually be attributed to a definite programme – that which worked against Jews on entirely racist principles. Now that’s a pretty long way from the whacked-out conspiracy nuts who think Jewish representation in banking must somehow be a diabolical Zionist plot.

Next thing you lot will come up with is that the Shudras or the Dalits have cornered the market on moving rubbish and sewage in India, because of a vast lowest-class conspiracy.

*

Aside:

Don’t start claiming victory on the “911 thread” yet, tea-baggers like “wide-stance” Larry … I’ve decided not to write there again before the weekend. You’re utterly defeated there. It just hasn’t sunk in yet.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2010/may/20/torture-william-hague-terrorism

“A judge will investigate claims that British intelligence agencies were complicit in the torture of terror suspects, William Hague, the foreign secretary, said tonight.”

I have to admit I’m surprised at the speed this new government is acting. The cynic in me says this is a political move to further weaken the opposition, however the optimist in me says he is acting on principles.

“I have to admit I’m surprised at the speed this new government is acting. The cynic in me says this is a political move to further weaken the opposition, however the optimist in me says he is acting on principles.”

Well, it isn’t impossible for cynical party political motives and right actions to coincide.

“I’ve decided not to write there again before the weekend”

Is the 911 thread still active? I thought it had fizzled out. More to the point I don’t know how to get back to it. Anyone got a link? Thanks.

Here you go MJ:

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2010/01/the_911_post.html

Angrysoba,

yes, a change of government may increase the probability of such an overlap

Glenn,

“What you might have forgotten to take into consideration is that Jews – throughout the middle ages – were _specifically prohibited_ from entering pretty much any of the crafts and tradesman’s guilds. …”

If Wikipedia is to be relied upon, Jews were invited to England by William the First with the intention that they would bring capital, lend it and thereby enhance the wealth of the nation. So it appears they were not driven to engage in usury but came as usurers, fully fledged, and if the Domesday Book is to be believed, it was in that capacity that they became very rich, very arrogant and very much hated — for which reasons they were expelled in 1290, not to return until the time of the reformation. So I think both of us were in some error in believing that Jews in England were driven to usury by exclusion from other opportunities.

Hey, Technicolor,

I thought I might cause some reaction. But as I understand from your second comment, your initial reaction was pure knee-jerk. Thus, I assume you agree that Jews are by no means immune to racism.

Barbara Amiel, for example, has described Arabs as “animals,” and proposed that Israel should simply nuke them (I’d give you the links to the New Statesman and the Telegraph, respectively, but Craig’s blog software would choke on them). Jonah Goldberg condemns all Germans as Hitler’s “willing executioners,” while in Jerusalem, among young Israelis, it seems fashionable to call President Obama a nigger:

http://maxblumenthal.com/feeling-the-hate-in-jerusalem/

I assume also that you agree that Judaism, is a racially discriminatory religion.

As for Jewish prominence in American banking and American banking and financial scams, all I will say is that Goldman Sachs was not founded by Canadians and is not run by Canadians and that neither Michael Milken, nor Ivan Boesky nor Bernie Madoff are Canadians.

But just as most Germans are decent, honorable, and honest people Hitler notwithstanding, so most Jews are decent, honorable, and honest people, a few crooked bankers and a fairly sizable crowd of fanatical Zionists, notwithstanding.

As per usual we get the same PC brain-washed dingbats trying to turn the issue of financial terrorism into a race issue.

Insofar as families like the Roths practised endogamy over centuries and even surreptitiously inter-bred with dynastic lines to maintain their elite domination-genes are an issue.If only because they made it one!

I tend to think that hereditary greed is a more accurate description.

technicolor,Larry,angri et al will always use the antisemitism screen to obscure what really amounts to an important argument about a financial empire that’s now in its death-throes.

The imminent financial collapse may also prompt a major re-think on the part of the major banking families

descendants of the Venetian fondi,Warburg,Schiff et al as to the long-term quality of their gene pool!

It should certainly convince us that central banking has reached its nadir.

Warburg,Schiff,Rothschild RIP.

“most Jews are decent, honorable, and honest people”

So why bother even mentioning Judaism? What has Barbara Amiel got to do with anything?

My sentiments remain the same, Alfred.

It is not usually vouchsafed on mainstream history courses that communism and Zionism were twin-track operations.

Thus we find Trotsky regularly playing chess with Baron Rothschild in a Vienna cafe before the Bolshevik Revolution.

As to Marx’s aspirations for Zionist banker-led World Government-we’re not allowed to mention them either.

Chunks of history gone AWOL?

You bet!

“So why bother even mentioning Judaism? What has Barbara Amiel got to do with anything?”

You told me to “fuck off” because I pointed out that some Jews are racists. So I gave you the example of Barbara Amiel a vehement Zionist and anti-Arab racist married to the staunch Zionist, Lord Conrad Black, currently of the the Coleman Federal Correction Institute, Florida, USA.

What’s hard to understand about that?

Alfred, I apologised for my language. Substitute “get away with you” by all means.

I do not understand why you are bothering to point out that some Jewish people are racist? So what? So are some Christians. Would you like me to give you an example of a racist Christian? I can. What good would it do? What would it prove? None and nothing.

And yet you conflate individual instances of racism (Amiel disgraceful, I agree) with the assertion that Judaism is a “racially discriminatory religion”. In truth, it is not, as you should very well know. Anyone of any race can become Jewish. I don’t expect you to apologise for this misinformation, by the way.

“And yet you conflate individual instances of racism (Amiel disgraceful, I agree) with the assertion that Judaism is a “racially discriminatory religion”. In truth, it is not, as you should very well know. ”

But of course Judaism is a racist religion (which is not the same as saying all Jews are racist, if only because many so-called Jews are Jews only in the anthropological sense). Read the first five books of the Bible, i.e., the Torah. The Jews are to rule of the nations of the Earth, destroy the Canaanites and steal their land, et., etc. And their chief religious festival, the Passover, celebrates the mass murder of innocents.

I’m sorry, but the evidence is irrefutable. Yahweh is a total shit.

Which is not the same as saying even a religious Jew is a shit. In my experience, highly intelligent people believe all kinds of total nonsense which rarely affects they conduct or there intrinsic moral sense.

Passover does not celebrate the “mass murder of innocents” Alfred: this is another smear. It celebrates a tribe’s survival from a plague (yes, I know Egyptians are meant to have died in it). It is also in the Bible (Deuteronomy, Exodus), but you don’t bother pointing that out. I wonder why?

It’s all very well to change your terms and start arguing that instead of being a “racially discriminatory religion” Judaism is a racist one. Still, a conveniently single-minded use of sources; since Jewish religious ceremonies I’ve attended have insisted on ‘loving kindness’ – again a phrase from the Torah.

Have some sympathy for your view of Yahweh. Old Testament God gives me the same feeling (disconcerting to be demonstrably nicer than God). But the gods, until recently at least, have been growing up & learning with the rest of us.

Alfred that was me (above.)

Glenn: brilliant!

“Next thing you lot will come up with is that the Shudras or the Dalits have cornered the market on moving rubbish and sewage in India, because of a vast lowest-class conspiracy.”

Now, I don’t want to state the blindingly obvious or be hateful and unkind-but I don’t think it’s rocket science to work out that techni, Cathouse et al are not at the races when it comes to making a reasoned, evidence-based argument.

That might have something to do with the fact that they are nothing but Zionist shills.

These guys will do everything in their power to make you feel guilty about what an elite group of warmongering crypto-Jews (aka.Hitler,Eichmann,the “Third Reich”) did to a huge swathe of stateless,assimilationist and Orthodox Jews,who did not want to go to Palestine, during WW2.

In reality, the only people who should feel guilty are those responsible for initiating WW2 in the first place, and those who pretend that only one ethnic group suffered disproportionately compared to the infinitely more numerous Russians,Poles and millions of others who had started dying after the Bolshevik Revolution in 1917.

The guilty ones are those who pretend, in the face of all the evidence, that slavery, revolution and World War are the result of happenstance rather than the Money Power.They pretend that money is a token of value rather than the vital controlling mechanism upon which all human history is contingent.

The guilty and hateful people are those who stand between you and the facts of history:shills who depend on your continuing ignorance for their very survival.

Maybe you find it difficult explaining to your forebears who fought for their country in two World Wars that, like their modern day counterparts in Afghanistan and Iraq today, they are actually fighting for the Zionist Money Power.

Dick Eastman has all these issues covered here:

http://ww.rense.com/general75/znst.htm

If your brain has survived the shill-implanted guilt complex he might just change your way of thinking.

If, unlike techni,angri and Cathouse, you’re still thinking, that is!

Tech:

“”t’s all very well to change your terms and start arguing that instead of being a “racially discriminatory religion” Judaism is a racist one.”

Yes, it is all very well since discrimination is the essence of racism.

You say, “Passover does not celebrate the “mass murder of innocents”

Of course it does:

As Wikipedia relates:

“In the narrative of the Exodus, the Bible tells that God inflicted ten plagues upon the Egyptians before Pharaoh would release his Hebrew slaves, with the tenth plague being the killing of every firstborn male, from the Pharaoh’s son to the firstborn of the dungeon captive, to the firstborn of cattle. The Hebrews were instructed to mark the doorposts of their homes with the blood of a spring lamb and, upon seeing this, the spirit of the Lord passed over these homes, hence the term “passover”.”

And what this account does not mention, is that whenever Pharaoh resolved to let the Israelites go, that old bastard Yahweh hardened Pharoah’s heart, just so that he could demonstrate the strength of his right arm by inflicting one more plague on the poor brutalized Egyptians: the folks that had taken the Jews in when they were starving and who the “loving kindness” loving Zionist Jews now want to nuke.

As for the loving kindness, how often do we see that manifest by Israelis dealing with the indigenous people of Palestine? Not often. Right. Why? Because the Palis aren’t Jews and Jews have a two-face ethical code.

Do try to get a few of your facts straight.

Alfred: the festival is called “Passover”. That is because it is celebrating the “Passover”. It is not called the “Slaughter of the Egyptians” festival because that is not what it is celebrating.

Do try and twist a few more of your ‘facts’ more convincingly.

As for the way the Israeli minority elected government is behaving towards the Palestinians, that has nothing to do with Judaism, and you know that too.

“the festival is called “Passover”. That is because it is celebrating the “Passover”. It is not called the “Slaughter of the Egyptians” festival because that is not what it is celebrating.”

Yeah, and the Germans celebrated Auschwitz not because Hitler was killing Jews but because he wasn’t killing Germans.

And only “the minority elected Government [of Israel]” hates Arabs, except that 31% of Jewish Israelis say they feel hatred when they hear Arabic spoken, 40% think that Arab citizens of Israel should be denied the vote, 60% would not allow an Arab to their home, 75% said that apartment buildings should not be shared by Arabs and Jews and most believe that it is treason for a Jewish woman to marry an Arab.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3381978,00.html

Spin that, Techie.

The Germans celebrated Auschwitz? What are you talking about?

And address the point, please. The festival is called “Passover”. It is celebrating survival, not slaughter.

Horrible statistics from ynet, I agree. From 2007. A year later a Haaretz poll was showing 64 percent in favour of dialogue with Hamas (google Haaretz dialogue hamas.)

Our so-called liberal censor has been at work air-brushing comments re-Marx’s plan for Zionist banker-led world domination.

If you can’t convince people of your argument that there’s no such thing as Zionist bankers then just obliterate the evidence for the counter argument- seems to be the modus operandi.

Reference was also made in the original post to the role of Zionist bankers in the Bolshevik Revolution and the millions who died in the gulag.

We might note too that bankers like Schiff also backed Hitler’s rise to power.

The evidence for Zionist bankers’ WW2 plan to use Hitler to confront Stalin and thereby rein in what they perceived as his “Bonapartism” (read aspiration for “revolution in one country”) is the interview given by Christian Rakovsky to his Soviet interrogators in 1938.It’s online at scrbd.com under the title:Red Symphony.

WW2 thus became the Zionist means to internationalize the spread of Soviet

communism that had ground to a halt under Stalin’s leadership.Not to mention the fact that Soviet propaganda re-the “Holocaust” in the post-war period gave added impetus to the Zionist claim for the Jewish ethno-state in Palestine.

References in the censored comments were also made to the Jewish ancestry of the Nazi leadership (read the book by Kardel online) and their use of terror to compel assimilated and Orthodox Jews who did not want to go to emigrate to Palestine.

“Holocaust” comes from the Hebrew for burnt offering or sacrifice.The six million figure touted by Zionists and their fellow-travellers for Jewish deaths during WW2 has its origins in Kabbalah prophecy rather than documented history.

These are the facts and the internet means that the Zionists and their vast network of gate-keepers and propagandists are now struggling to maintain the myths that cover their crimes against humanity.

Mr Murray can censor these comments but he is fighting a battle the Zionists have already lost.

That’s why with or without Mr Murray’s help they seek to control the internet.

There is dispute re-authenticity of the Levy letter.

Firstly it is unclear whether the words are those of Marx or Levy.

Secondly it is quite possible that the quote is from Levy in correspondence with someone else.

Freeborn,you may thus be overestimating the importance of an unreliable document.Note the document did not appear until 1928 when it was cited in La Revue de Paris.

However the reknowned authority on Marx’s apostasy is Marvin Antelman whose magnum opus To Eliminate The Opiate finds the origins of Marx’s inner life in his Frankist apostasy and Illuminati Freemasonry. This circle included the League of Just Men sponsors of early communists,like Marx and Engels.

Check out Zionist writer and staunch advocate of the brilliant Antelman’s work, Barry Chamish.Antelman, an inventor and something of an all-round genius to boot, gave an enlightening interview on Israeli radio which covered these matters too.

The real history of the Holocaust is a chapter in the schism that occurred within Jewry during the seventeenth century when the Frankist messiah,Shabatai Tzvi swept all before him and achieved a huge following among World Jewry.His successor,Jacob Frank gives his name to the group.

Frankist influence is still more secret and powerful today in the controlling hands that guide elite policy groups like the CFR as it was in Tzvi’s day.

Marx was a Sabbatean heretic forebear of the elite Jews who usurped control of Zionism when they ousted Herzl and replaced him with Weizmann.

If the Levy letter was Marx’s work it would be part of the Sabbatean plot to subvert Judaism and whip up anti-semitism.

Whatever the truth-which us always more messy and complicated than any of us would wish neither the letter nor Marx’s theories should be taken at face value.

Owen, interesting observation about the bus. I’m glad you were on the bus and good on you for being on it!

I realise that one cannot necessarily extrapolate.

Of course, some of those people on the bus would have had zero solidarity with places like Venezuela/ Cuba, etc. because some of the people on the bus might have been vehemently anti-Socialist/ anti-Communist and because they have been ‘organised’ over the past 25-30 years to eschew any other form of solidarity other than the narrowly religious form, and then, a narrow version of that narrowly religious form. So, some of those people on the bus would have been likely to have been engaging in, essentially, identity politics. Tribal politics.

This is one of the tragedies of recent policy in the UK and it is one of the reasons why I am against expanding faith schools of any kind.

Of course, it very much suits those in positions of power to allow divisions to become established between those who otherwise might actually see that it is in their interests to unite with other groups.

Anyone interested in fascinatingly intertwined aspects of Sephardic culture and/or flamenco song might enjoy ‘The Spanish House’. Good for a late night read – shalom and mazel tov!

Here’s the link:

http://www.arts.gla.ac.uk/ScotLit/ASLS/SWE/TBI/TBIIssue3/TheSpanishHouse.pdf

The excision of the Levy letter still seems to suggest that we are not deemed adult enough to discuss such matters.

The letter’s authenticity is hotly disputed across the internet.Just as it should be.

What is at issue are some of the most momentous questions on the history of the last century.

Such issues as why in the last century did two World Wars need to be fought?

What was the role played by the Zionist bankers who turned up at Versailles in 1919 in shaping the events that led to the second conflagration? They outnumbered the political representatives of the former belligerents!

How did religious and class divisions that developed within World Jewry lead to what happened during the “Holocaust”?

How did the Frankists infiltrate Reform Judaism in order to subvert it?Were the Jews who were sacrificed a burnt offering for the Frankist elite?

How did the Frankists gain control of Zionism to the extent that it was they who were in a position to control who would gain admittance to Palestine?

How far do the Frankist elite control Israel today?

What was the nature of Stalin and Hitler’s links to the Zionist bankers?

Answers to such questions are sorely needed since the establishment mythology is so obviously fabricated.

If Rabbi Antelman and Barry Chamish,both Zionists,are free to discuss such matters in Israel then so should we be.

Of course, the peculiar and interesting thing is that in their scriptures and prayers, Muslims identify not with Pharaoh’s Egyptians or Nebuchadnezzar’s Babylonians but with Moses (Musa), Aaron (Haroun), and the Children of Israel.

They do not see any parallel b/w Moses/ those Biblical/ Quranic ‘Jews’ (though arguably the term might be inaccurate referring to the people at that time, one might perhaps use the term, ‘Hebrews’ instead) and the present-day state of Israel, the establishment of which, many of them, like some very orthodox Jews, see as a usurpation of religious prophesy.

I do think it is important that this type of dynamic be stated, as it seems very difficult to state it overtly in gatherings of either community. Almost nobody, it seems, in the public sphere or in print, wants to have their pristine contemporary tribal short-term myths dispelled with a dose of history, long-term myth (inner life) and theological exegesis. That, in itself, is a tragedy, in my view.

That is why, when I referred on another thread to the Kurdish Israeli-American writer who actually tried to present a nuanced, complex narrative of history to an audience in Washington, DC, who, I am not sure were ready or willing really to hear such nuance, I thought it was so different and fresh.

The role of Sabbatean apostate Jews in Bolshevism,Nazism,Reform Judaism,and Zionism and the “Holocaust” is key to understanding all the events you mention.

Chamish sketches this background based on his reading of Antelman in several talks and articles.

In Frankists,Sabateans and the Illuminati he discusses the role of Donmeh Sabbateans in the Armenian massacres and Young Turk Revolution that deposed the Ottomans.Noteworthy is the fact that several of Israel’s first generation of leaders including Ben Gurion,Moshe Sharet,Ben Zvi were all Sabbateans.Zvi took the name of the seventeenth century Messiah and wrote books on Sabbateanism.

Citing David Morrison’s Heroes and Anti-Heroes,Chamish also notes the role of the US-based Frankist elite in the Holocaust.Figures such as Mayer Sulzberger,Louis Marshall,Cyrus Adler,Jacob Schiff,Felix Franfurter and Rabbi Stephen Wise were all instrumental in controlling the flow of migrants to Palestine during WW2.

This elite was responsible for the burnt offering known today as the “Holocaust”.

The venerable Rabbi Antelman’s interview on Israeli radio is here:

http://wideeyecinema.com/?p=5112

I seem to remember some years ago when this blog was in its infancy Craig commending J.A.Hobson’s 1905 work,Imperialism.

The work is cited by Hannah Arendt in her Origins of Totalitarianism in which she noted that it was Jewish financiers who helped initiate the boom in financial speculation in the 1870s that formed the springboard for nation states to embark on the period of imperial expansion that followed in succeeding decades.

These financiers were the source for the internationally guaranteed loans that facilitated such expansion.Used to making profits on commissions the Jewish financiers ideally placed to conduct international business operations needed by imperialists.

Arendt found early studies of imperialism were all explicit about the heavy involvement of Jewish international finance in imperial expansion.She wondered why Hobson who had in his earliest foray into the field in a 1900 edition of the Contemporary Review written of Jewish financiers who went early to the Transvaal for money soon withdrew but not without leaving “their economic fangs in the carcas of their prey.”

Hobson described these financiers as speculators who profit from the “construction,promotion and financial manipulation of companies”.

Characteristically Arendt put the absence of any mention of these Jewish financiers in Hobson’s later 1905 work down to his realisation that they had played but a temporary and superficial role in the development of imperialism.

Given that such financiers had been heavily involved in the slave and opium trades Hobson’s willingness to back-track on his original emphasis is not satisfactorily explained by Arendt’s assertion.

Again we know that Lionel Rothschild was an executor of Cecil Rhodes’ will and a member of the Milner Round Table Group.”The Group”, as they came to call themselves, provided influential members of the Lloyd George administration that issued the 1917 Balfour commitment to the Jewish ethno-state in Palestine.

Thus pretending the phenomenon of Zionist bankers has no basis in reality is a shared predilection for both these writers.Today these are far outnumbered by commentators less willing to submit to editorial PC bullying.

Probably Hobson’s original ideas re-Jewish financiers and Imperialism would have been deleted by our editor-ironically the very man who recommended him to his readers!

LOL!

Tungsten/ Apostate/ Steelback/ Freeborn – oh, who not call yourself by one name, it’s much simpler and anyway by now everyone knows it’s you, man – can I ask you something? Please don’t be offended or take umbrage. I think you know by now that I generally attempt to be as ‘straight’ with people as I can.

When, on a previous recent thread, Alfred elegantly was presenting his theories of race, you (I seem to recall; I may be mistaken) as Apostate came out and argued in favour of a multicultural/ multiethnic, etc. society, i.e. a society composed of lots of people hailing from different parts of the world.

Can I ask you, then, just out of interest, what your thoughts might in relation to the BNP?

Thanks. Much appreciated.

Steelback says,

“The role of Sabbatean apostate Jews in Bolshevism,Nazism,Reform Judaism,and Zionism and the “Holocaust” is key to understanding all the events you mention.

Chamish sketches this background based on his reading of Antelman …”

Antelman claims to have discovered a cure for AIDS:

“Method of curing AIDS with tetrasilver tetroxide molecular crystal devices” US Patent 5,676,977, 1997

But if you look it up in Google Scholar, this Earth-shaking discovery has been cited a total of exactly five times in thirteen years, which must raise some doubt as to its efficacy.

What’s more, if you check the citing references, two are self-citations, one seems to be a mistake and the other two make no reference to AIDS.

Antelsman also invented a lard-laden bullet for use against devout Muslims, who believe any contact with pig flesh robs the soul of its chance to enter paradise:

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/08/28/magazine/sunday-august-28-1994-fat-in-the-fire.html

Is this the kind of person we should be taking seriously?

Suhayl,

You say,

“When, on a previous recent thread, Alfred elegantly was presenting his theories of race…”

Bollocks. I presented no theory of race. I gave a dictionary definition of the word “race” and an biologists operational definition of the word “race,” which was merely a slightly more precise version of the dictionary definition, e.g., that provided by the “Free dictionary”:

5. Biology

a. An interbreeding, usually geographically isolated population of organisms differing from other populations of the same species in the frequency of hereditary traits.

And if you dispute that, give us the quote?

Er Alfred, you did indeed have theories about race, among them the theory that the British race was in danger of being eliminated by mass immigration. You left the thread. Please don’t make everyone go through the same hoops again. It is boring.

Suhayl,

“Er Alfred, you did indeed have theories about race, among them the theory that the British race was in danger of being eliminated by …”

That’s not a theory about race. It is a statement of the obvious about the effect of mass immigration on the genetic composition of the population – or are you trying to say that African or Asian immigrants, are as likely to have red hair and blue eyes as those of long British descent – a claim that would obviously be false.

I think you are trying to play the race card, by implying that I have epxressed racist ideas, a suggestion that is totally false and therefore odious.

Alfred, that was me. And there is no such obvious effect, it is a theory. And a malign one.

I’m not going to repeat this; please go back to the other thread & read the comments there.

Apostate…?

Suhayl,

My apologies for attributing Technicolor’s comment to you.

As for Tech’s response, it is consistent with his seemingly limited grasp of the of the English language. To call a dictionary definition of “race” a race theory is idiotic. And he is has now confirmed that he is incapable of providing any other justification for his insulting comment.

Are you thre…? This is earth calling. [joke]

Apostate, I mean… are you there, nanu-nanu…

Alfred, though you know I disagree with you on those matters (more broadly than simply in relation to conceptual or linguistic definitions), the allusion in my original post addressed to apostate et al was made by me simply to allow him to anchor my question in context.

Btw, Technicolour, I sense, is a very intelligent and ‘good egg’.

Vigorous debate is the lifeblood of any decent C17th coffee-house.

Suhayl, Technicolor, Whoever,

Are you all the same or what?

And you say “I disagree with you on those matters.”

On what matters? And how do you disagree?

You accuse me of racial theorizing. You know what that implies. But you cannot substantiate the charge. Therefore, you should withdraw it.

Alfred we are different people but I expect we are just as tired. Go and read the previous thread, please (under the voting tree). It has illuminating comments by Richard Robinson and angrysoba too. Thank you.

Arthur

Not sure Antelman’s inventions are relevant here?

Maybe you’re a little uncomfortable outside your own cultural milieu?

Both Antelman and Chamish are Zionists and Israel is an extraordinary state.

A lot of PC liberals like to believe that all the goodies line up on one side and all the baddies on the other.

If life was that simple-it would be boring.Lots of people everywhere have views other people might consider extraordinary.Maybe there’s a lot of people like that in Israel.

Bear in mind that Antelman and Chamish believe that true Zionism was hijacked by a small sect of Sabbatean apostates.

Neither you or me are Zionists but both of us must understand that if either of us had just a modicum amount of the talent that Rabbi Antelman has we would want to make ourselves famous quite quickly.

If we could simultaneously put our NEW country on the map as well-we’d leap at the chance wouldn’t we?

So to Antelman let’s say the cure for AIDS and the pig-fat bullets-hardly a new idea anyway-both could possibly, at least from the point of view of a Zionist with a siege mentality-have,saved numerous Israeli lives.

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the work of the Zionist theologian,Gershon Scholem.Like Antelman,he drew attention to the 17th century schism within World Jewry that occurred with the advent of Shabatai Tzvi.He identified the said schism as the key moment in Jewish history.

Why any of this needs explaining to someone who claims to have any knowledge of Israel is quite beyond me.

After all,most of the educationally challenged “special needs” contributors on this website seem to think I’m “anti-semitic.”

CORRECTION:I take exception to a small elite of Jewish supremacists.And that’s not the same thing.

suhayl

haven’t you asked this dumb question re-the BNP before?

I have about as much interest in the BNP as I have in stamp-collecting.

There have been good philatelists and bad ones.

Do I give a fiddler’s fart?

Last I heard the BNP was endorsing Israel’s right to attack its neighbours.

Am I going to vote for a Zionist party?

Somehow I think not!

Dingbat!

That’s very interesting, Steelback/Apostate/whatever. Do you have some sort of a club or society in which you can discuss these overwhelming feelings? Does it not feel awful every day, wandering around with such hatred & so many theories? Life might be better if you went to the gym, instead of taking steroids?

No, really.

Technicolor says:

” Go and read the previous thread, please (under the voting tree).”

Why?

Why can neither he nor Suhayl explain why they say I have advanced “racial theories.” And since neither can, why do they not withdraw the comment. Even apologise for it.

Steelback: Who’s Arthur? Did you mean Alfred? One was Romano-Brythonic, the other, Anglo-Saxon. Enemies, then. Unless we’re talking Arthur, eldest son of Henry VII, who died before his father, so ultimately ushering in Henry VIII and his six wives. Tudor usurpers! Yokels! Herbicidal maniacs!

Thank you for answering my question, btw. Very interesting. I don’t think I’ve asked you it before, but I may have; there are four of you, so it’s quite tough to keep track even though all four of you speak with one voice. Unlike me – I am legion, but I speak with one though on good days I like to think of it as a symphony. Well, okay, a jig, then.

Technicolour, your imagery brought to mind the work of the opiate-drenched Peter Howson; all those dynamic, muscular, cloth-capped workers on the beach, bulging with rage and the antithesis of incipient bone-crushing Socialist Realism.

Well, enjoy your coffee, Steelback. But answer me this, O acolyte of Jimmy Page. Do fiddlers, fart? Is there something about the violin that increases hydrogen sulphide levels in the colon? And if so, how does this dynamic compare with, say, drummers, or clarinetists? Or indeed, mezzo-sopranos? Such matters preoccupy one, do they not, in the swirling depths of the summer night.

But remember this: Einstein claimed that he’d had only a single thought in his entire life.

Alfred, come on, man, we’ve gone into all this before, on that other thread when you sort of stomped off in a huff ’cause I asked you to do a handstand. I could go into really fascinating areas like the role of the court jester and the Lords of Misrule in Mediaeval society, but, I’m tired right now. Man, we’re like diamonds, we people are like diamonds, we have many sides but through each side one can see the whole. Dig it. Let’s talk about something else for a change. Like where in Canada are you, roughly? How do you find it there? How’s it changed over the years? Are you into the work of Jorge Luis Borges and Alberto Manguel – the latter is in Canada, I think? I read an epic story once, entitled, ‘Chinook Arch’ and when I was in Montreal I picked up the works of Michel Tremblay. Brilliant.

eeew, Peter Howson! What imagery brought him to mind?

Suhayl, we could indeed be diamonds. I always liked to think of ideas as diamonds: multi-faceted; shining.

Arthur?

Who is Arthur? Me perhaps?

Re: Marvin Antelman,

Since Antelman’s claims to scientific achievement are fraudulent, one needs to regard any other claim that he may make with great caution.

You say, referring to me and you,

“if either of us had just a modicum amount of the talent that Rabbi Antelman has…”

But where’s the evidence of talent. As I indicated, as a scientist he is a nullity according to Google Scholar which indicates with fair accuracy how many times a scientist’s work has been cited in the literature as a whole.

Marvin (s) Antelman has a few dozen cited articles, patents and books. His biggest hit is his “Encyclopedia of Chemical Electrode Potentials” published 28 years ago, which has been cited 68 times, a negligible count for a major text. His other works have been cited even less frequently, for a total of two or three hundred citations to all works.

Modesty aside, I can claim several times as many citations to my published scientific work, i.e., over 1000. To put that in perspective, Craig Ventor of the Human Genome project has about 25,000 citations to his ten most widely cited works.

Antelman is clearly a fanatical Zionist who hates Reformed Juadaism and Orthodox Judaism. As a Jew and a Zionist, he can accuse his co-religionists of every conceivable perversion without much risk of ostracism. However, any gentile adopting his line of attack on Jews would very quickly be labelled an anti-Semitic bigot. It is unquestioning belief in what people like Antelman say that surely gives rise to much anti-Semitism. Perhaps that is Antelman’s purpose, for Zionism seems to thrive on a Jewish persecution complex.

In any case, from the little I know, it is clear that not all that Antelman says about a conspiracy to destroy the Jews (if such indeed exists) is factually correct. In particular, he misrepresents both Carroll Quiqley and the Round Table movement that Quiqley studied.

Quigley did not conclude that the Round Table movement (a development of Cecil Rhodes’ secret society and the Milner Kindergarten) was anti-Semitic. Far from it. The movement was in part financed by Rhodes business partner Beit, a Jew, and Milner’s successor as the intellectual leader of the group was the Jew Leopold Amery. On both Israel and Germany the group was divided, with Amery going with the Zionists and for war with Germany.

Okay, since now on this thread there seems to be a preoccupation with, and deep love for, things Jewish, here’s my own piece of Judaic esoterica: Has anyone heard of Obadyah Maimonides? Grandson of Moses Maimonides, Obadyah was a Jewish Sufi who wrote a tract entitled, ‘The Treatise of the Pool’.

Dive in, people, dive in.

http://www.octagonpress.com/authors/obadyahmaimonides.htm

Alfred, did you read about that (white) professor who was spouting-off about Africans and intelligence and then had his own genome checked and discovered that it was something like 15% African? I thought that was a real hoot. Haven’t heard much form the learned (African) prof. since then.

Sorry, just a pebble in the pool…

Alfie

What’s all this about,Marvin Antelman.

You haven’t read To Eliminate The Opiate or listened to the Israeli radio interview.

You’re steering clear of Chamish and Scholem and clearly have only a superficial understanding of this body of work.

Antelman does not misrepresent Quigley at all.Neither make any claims re-the Round Table Group being anti-semitic.

You seem to have missed the point about Jewish financiers and Empire builders like Rhodes.And the Balfour Declaration in which the Group played a leading role is omitted from your account.

If you are more secure with mainstream sources-so be it.But the more rounded perspective which a range of sources provides will always escape you.

techni

please desist from your irritating inane commentary.Without Cathouse Larry you’re a nobody.

Suhayl,

Re: The white professor who …

No, I haven’t, why do you ask?

Are you and Techie back in white race-baiting mode?

Steelback, aka, Tungsten, Strontium, aka Plutonium,

Re: “You haven’t … listened to the Israeli radio interview.”

But I have.

You say, “Antelman does not misrepresent Quigley at all.Neither make any claims re-the Round Table Group being anti-semitic.”

But he does. Are you simply careless in what you say, or are you a liar?

Furthermore, I have read Quigley, his entire works — which you obviously have not, and know, therefore, that Antelman lies about Quigley’s account of the Rhodes-Milner and the Round Table group.

Antelman, uses Quigley’s authority to justify his own false assertions. If you look at the Quigley biography in Wikipedia you will see that this is a trick a number of other people have used, and to which Quigley strongly objected.

Anyway, I have already established that Antelman is a fraud, who boasts of a fake cure for AIDS, a man who allows himself to be described as a scientific genius when he is, scientifically, a nullity. So why do you continue to present him as an authority? He has no authority. He is nothing but a blowhard Zionist, fascist.

You say, “You seem to have missed the point about Jewish financiers and Empire builders like Rhodes.And the Balfour Declaration in which the Group played a leading role is omitted from your account.”

Rhodes was not a Jew. But neither was was he a racist and worked readily with Jews and all other races.

Balfour was not of the Rhodes-Milner group. He was a member of the Cecil Block, he was a close relative of Lord Salisbury.

I looked at the Bzrezinski clip you referred to. Our impressions of the man are greatly at odds.

To me, he comes across as an astonishingly arrogant, with a total contempt for his audience.

What kind of a school can Columbia be? Universities are supposed top instill a capacity for rational discourse?

Bzrezinski treats the questioners with contempt. No doubt they are ignorant, but it is to cure ignorance, not to despise it that a university should exist.

Suhayl,

I am aggravated at being misnamed repeatedly by idiots.

I am aggravated by sly, unsubstantiated implications of a racism of which I am incapable.

I also appreciate your attempts to maintain a civil discourse, and enjoy your literary allusions.

I have lived in various places in Canada. Ottawa, Vancouver, and in Toronto for three days, after which I resigned my tenure track position at the university and returned, with much relief, to the West Coast where I have lived happily ever after.

“How do you find it there?”

Physically, it is a wonderful country. The people are vigorous and practical. No doubt some are literary — though I never met any of them.

Canada has all the problems of a modern western nation: tied into America’s (and the Rhodes-Milner) plan for global empire (Federation); unrestrained growth of bureaucracy; transformation of education into a process of totalitarian indoctrination with political correctness; outsourcing of manufacturing and intellectual work.

Going for us is that there are still some jobs in the natural resources sector that cannot be outsourced. And we still have space: a dozen hectares per person versus one fifth of a hectare in England, which means if you want to, it is still possible to drop out and live away in the bush. Almost no one does. But it seems good to know that you can.

Cheers

Thanks, Alfred. That sounds fascinating – the ‘big country’! Lots of clean air. Yes, I’ve heard from everyone who’s ever been there that Vancouver is a fantastic place.

When I was in Montreal a couple of years ago, I met an interesting guy who runs a radio station in Ottawa called The Biblio Phile.

http://nigelbeale.com/

Steelback,

My mistake, the vid of Zbig Zbrezinski spitting contempt at youthful questioners was not posted by you or even on this thread.

Sorry. Obviously, I need a break, which I will take beginning now.

Alfie

You must have been blowing hard on something!

Rhodes not a racist,someone who worked with all races?

You’ve been spending too much time with techni and the airheads.

No-one in their right mind would make such a ludicrously inaccurate statement.Rhodes shared the same views about racial hierarchy as the vast majority of his contemporaries.

Get a grip.

You seem to have a unique ability to completely miss the point.This must be down to a failure to clarify terms.

For the Round Table Groups:RIIA,CFR Quigley is, as Antelman says, an impeccable source.

On the impact of the schism in Judaism that occurred in the 17th century on Zionism and Israel Antelman and Scholem are invaluable sources.

Antelman and Quigley would agree that the abnormal nationalism that was foisted on World Jewry by the aforementioned elite planners in no way had the wellbeing of Jews at heart.Rather both see Zionism as a movement looked on by elite planners as one they can control in order to obtain certain geo-strategic objectives.

It is utterly misconceived to imagine that Antelman is misrepresenting Quigley in order to sell some fascistic form of Zionism.

A feeling among Israelis that they have been betrayed and steadily degraded morally and spiritually in a vast laboratory experiment by insidious

corrupt elites in the CFR and elsewhere is hardly surprising or unnatural.

It’s certainly not the same as Zio-fascism.

Steelback,

You have an ability, remarkable if not unique, for creating your own reality.

“For the Round Table Groups:RIIA,CFR Quigley is, as Antelman says, an impeccable source.”

I don’t know if Quigley was an impeccable source, but he appears to be the most prolific source. But Antelman uses Quigley’s name to justify his own claims about the Round Table Movement that are totally unsupported by Quigley. The lack of racism among this group was clearly asserte by Quigley. For example, here’s a direct quote:

“The effort of the Round Table Group to create a common ideology to unite the supporters of the British way of life appears in every aspect of their work. It was derived from Rhodes and Milner and found its most perfect manifestation in the Rhodes Scholarships. As a result of these and of the Milner Group’s control of so much of Oxford, Oxford tended to become an international university. Here the Milner Group had to tread a narrow path between the necessity of training non-English (including Americans and Indians) in the English way of life and the possibility of submerging that way of life completely (at Oxford, at least) by admitting too many non-English to its cloistered halls. …”

There are many other passages in the “Anglo-American Establishment” that make it absolutely clear that Rhodes was not an anti-Semite and he wished to bring the non-white dominions and colonies into a Federation in which British ideas about liberty and democracy would prevail. Not only was Rhodes’ business partner, Beit, a Jew he was also a trustee of the Rhodes Trust that administered the Rhodes scholarships, etc. Furthermore, in several versions of his will Rhodes designated Lord Rothschild as his sole executor.

So I am sorry, but you are speaking whereof you have no knowledge, and about which you are relying on what I have established is a totally unreliable source.

“It is utterly misconceived to imagine that Antelman is misrepresenting Quigley in order to sell some fascistic form of Zionism.”

I did not say that. I said that Antelman falsely attributed to Quigley the idea that the Round Table Movement was anti-Semitic. This is obviously absurd for the reasons I have stated above and in view also of the fact that Milner’s successor as intellectual leader of the group was the Jew Leopold Amery who became a staunch backer of the state of Israel.

“A feeling among Israelis that they have been betrayed and steadily degraded morally and spiritually in a vast laboratory experiment by insidious

corrupt elites in the CFR and elsewhere is hardly surprising or unnatural.”

That may or may not be so, but it is certainly not justified by anything that Quigley said about the Round Table Group. Quigley’s chief criticism of the Group was what he considered to be its unrealistic belief in the possibility of applying to world affairs the ethical message of the Sermon on the Mount — or do you say that the Sermon on the Mount was anti-Semitic?

Dennis Healey, one time Labour Party heavyweight, recounted an amusing incident from his student days at Oxford, which confirms the international flavor of the Milner-Group-dominated Balliol college. During a showing in Oxford of movie “The Queen of the Nile”, as a group of Africans came in sight furiously paddling a canoe, someone brought the house down with a shout of “Well rowed Balliol”.

Alf

Look,mate I’ve read The Anglo-American Establishment and I know a bit re-the elite conspiracy it describes.

Your idea that Rhodes was some kind of multi-cultural imperialist who loved the Jews is anachronistic claptrap.

Your thoroughly PC concern with compartmentalizing and labelling people means you end up thoroughly decontextualizing their original aspirations.

Rhodes’s circle wanted to create a world empire.They shared this aspiration with elite Jews like Rothschild who had the means to bring it about.

Whether Rhodes was anti-semitic or not is neither here nor there.In Antelman’s terms the RIIA,CFR,Trilaterals et al that have followed in his wake are working to an elite agenda for world government and will make a burnt offering of the thoroughly artificial nuclear statelet these organizations helped bring about for the sake of achieving this long-term goal.

Thinking about the Round Table elite forums Rhodes et al set up to be the invisible world government means examining the military industrial complex,political elites,and intelligence networks behind them to uncover their hand in crucial world events.

This is what Quigley’s work enables researchers like Antelman and any number of several others,of whom he may well have not approved,to do.

Yea,let’s put Quigley on a pedestal because he wrote long books,shall we?

Like Apostate I use Quigley as a starting point only.As an elite insider to the machinations of The Group of course he’s indispensable.But the fact that he shared The Group’s elite aspirations should make us wary-certainly not regard his assessment as sacrosanct!

Quigley quickly became must-read confirmation for all those who subscribed to right wing conspiracy theories re-the US establishment emanating from such forums as the John Birch Society.It was these groups who Quigley disparaged.

This does not mean he would automatically have disparaged Antelman

for being a Zionist!

Conspiracy researchers today have moved well beyond the left-right paradigm and adopt perspectives from across the political spectrum.Thus Zionists like Antelman and Chamish home in on the connections between the Israeli political elite and the CFR in NY.

Nowadays personal interest rather than political affiliation or academic supervision affects the direction in which any researcher will gravitate.

The following discussion includes extensive references to Quigley’s work. I am struck by the links between the various political and intelligence circles across which various members of Rhodes’s group moved.

For example,William Wiseman is mentioned as reporting to Lord Cecil at the Foreign Office.Wiseman was Head of British Intelligence during WW1.According to Anthony Sutton it was he who insisted that the Canadian authorities who had arrested Leon Trotsky when he landed in Halifax on his way to Russia immediately release and allow him to make the onward journey.

If Wiseman was linked to the Cecil bloc,he was linked to the Milner Group.Along with the Rockefeller interests in the US The Milner Group were keen for the Bolsheviks to gain power.

That Milner was fascinated by the Bolshevik experiment and Marxist ideas generally is evident from his interest in Isaiah Berlin’s work on Marx.

Incidentally Berlin was another All Souls recruit of The Group.He was of Russian Jewish extraction.

Funny old world t’aint it and one that bears no resemblance to the orthodox so-called “history” I learned in college.

I can remember spending hours poring over an essay with the title:Did Stalin Betray The Promise of 1917?

Now I understand the promise had been betrayed long before Stalin got control of the Revolution.It had all begun when Trotsky got control of the army and Lenin the secret police.

And of course how did Lenin and Trotsky get where they were in the first place?

No,they didn’t teach us that either!

Now that Mr Murray is censoring contributions,I have decided to move on.

Bye,bye saps!

P.S.Cathouse Larry,techni,crabs,angri and Murray deserve each other!

Checking out.

If you can’t make what Murray refers to as “malicious comments” ( read criticize Jewish supremacists or Israel or the rich and powerful generally ) it’s not a democratic forum.

What does he think we are a chain-gang of establishment ass-kissers?

I hope Cathouse Larry,angri,techni and the rest keep you guys entertained!

THIS IS A KNOWLEDGE-FREE RESEARCH-AVERSE SITE UNWORTHY OF ANYONE’S ATTENTION.

If Craig has actually given Steelback and co the boot, I think he has struck a blow for free speech, for it is impossible to hold an intelligent conversation amidst a howling mob that insists that black is white.

Clearly, neither Steelback nor Apostate, if they are in fact different people, have read Quigley as they claim, or if they have read Quigley, they are misrepresenting what he said. Either way they are liars.

However, the personality of Marvin Antelman, to which they draw attention, seems worthy of further examination. In it one may find the key to the Jewish supremacist, ultra virulent settler mentality that is turning the State of Israel into a humanitarian disaster zone.

Alfred,

as far as I know, Craig never bans anyone, and has not set up the technical means to do so. ‘Steelback’ is probably complaining about some deleted comments. I’m convinced that Apostate, Steelback, Freeborn, Tungsten and Juniper are all the same person. ‘They’ even have arguments amongst themselves!

Mostly they criticise “zionist elites” or such, but sometimes produce more generally anti-Jewish material, or link to racist or anti-Jewish sites; this is what usually results in deletion. Sometimes they make good points or post interesting links. It can all get very confusing.

Alfred,

having said all that, you’re not exactly the least confusing commenter yourself. You’ve managed to fool some people into believing that you’re racist, or, conversely, fooled others into thinking that you’re not. Some of your earlier stuff seemed to support the BNP. And you seem to share reading material with Apostate etc.

Alfred,

you’ve also claimed to be incapable of racism. I know that biology is a large study and that what follows may be peripheral your field, but doesn’t evolutionary biology have theories about the instincts that lie behind racism? Like fear of other / trust of similar + aggression is a response to threat?

I personally believe that nearly all of us harbour the instincts that can result in racism. Some exhibit racism, some repress the feelings with varying degrees of success, and some recognise those feelings within themselves, and thereby develop.

Clark, you are a cosmic being.

In honour of which, here is a song from those who dwell far beneath the earth’s crust, but who know…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Jm263nN4hk

Clark

Re: “As far as I know, Craig never bans anyone, and has not set up the technical means to do so.”

Oh well, the good news is that Steelback says he’s gone for good.

You say, “Mostly they criticise “zionist elites” or such, but sometimes produce more generally anti-Jewish material, or link to racist or anti-Jewish sites… ”

Yet he/she/they/whatever promote Marvin Antelman a fanatical Zionist who spews hate for both Reform Judaism and orthodox Judaism. So yes, they are anti-Semitic as viewed by some Jews. However, they are, in fact, Jewish racial supremacists urging on the ethnic cleansing of Palestinian Arabs from Israel and the occupied territories.

Moreover, they propagate a paranoid theory about a conspiracy to exterminate the Jews, and in so doing they claim support in the work of Carrol Quigley. This is something that other conspiracy theorists have done, and something to which Quigley, during the last years of his life, strongly objected.

The reason they do this is for three reasons.

First, Quigley was a historian of the first rank. Probably the most notable twentieth century historian of the English-speaking world, which means his authority carries much weight.

Second, as a student of Rhodes Secret Society, the Round Table Groups and its various spin offs, including the Council on Foreign Relations, Quigley can plausibly, but falsely, be represented as a conspiracy theorist. In fact, as a good historian, Quigley did not engage in theories about historical facts. Furthermore, there was nothing very secret about the activities of the Round Table Groups and those associated with them. These people simply used personal contacts and the substantial funds made available to them through the Rhodes Trust to promote research and advocacy about ideas they supported, which is what all the many other politically oriented foundations and think tanks do today.

Third, they cite Quigley in support of their conspiracy theories because they know that almost no one has read him. The reasons this is so are many-fold, including the fact that as one of the most original thinkers in his field he upsets a lot of ideas that the duller kind of historian is loathe to discard. But in addition, his books are quite long. Longer than most people with busy lives have time for. Thus it is possible to misquote Quigley with little risk of exposure.

You say, “you’re not exactly the least confusing commenter yourself.”

Well what can I say? I will try to be clearer in future! Actually, my comments about the BNP were made partly to provoke discussion and partly because I am genuinely interested in the paradox that I have spelled out before, which is that the BNP claims — and I am talking of their policy statements on the Web, to stand for policies that are collectively, very popular, yet in the election, as I predicted, they got essentially no votes.

As for the provocation, it was provoked by the enthusiasm here for the Welsh and Scots Nationalist Parties. Why, I wanted to know, and am still interested to know, is Scottish and Welsh nationalism good, but British nationalism bad.

I am probably quite naive about this, but to me, nationalism equates to sovereignty, not to some Nazi-like theory of British racial supremacy, which would obviously be idiotic.

In fact, on the basis of the sovereignty issue, I would be inclined to support UKIP if they weren’t such a hopeless lot, with their pink website and their wonderful specimen of upper class irrelevance as party leader.

It is unfortunate that UKIP lost their founder, Jimmy Goldsmith (Golden Balls to Private Eye) who whatever his personal faults understood the catastrophe that globalization would be for the working and middle classes and courageously, and quite contrary to personal interest, stood out against it. He died very shortly thereafter, as troublemakers nowadays often seem to do, of a very unusual and fast acting form of cancer.

As to the BNP paradox, I have outlined my explanation elsewhere and won’t repeat it here. Essentially, though, I believe that the BNP is a fraudulent party controlled by the security services or some other dark force for the purpose of alienating support for the mostly sensible and popular policies that the BNP advocate.

You say, “you’ve also claimed to be incapable of racism.”

Actually, I have not claimed this. I stated that I was aggravated by allegations of “a racism of which I am incapable.” There is difference here.

The racism of which I am incapable has a number of facets. But first, on the emotional level, I believe it is impossible to be a deep dyed racist if you are brought up in the absence of racism. This was my experience simply because, in the 50′s in South Devon, my family from the Midlands, were the only immigrants. But in addition, I do not hold any foolish preconceptions about racial hierarchies or, therefore, the inherent superiority of one race over another.

As a biologist, I am simply interested in knowing the facts about racial differences, how they arise, what the significance is in terms of environmental and social adaptation, etc.

I am also opposed to discrimination on the basis of race or any other non-moral criterion, which is why I maintain that whatever one’s views about immigration to Britain or Canada, those who obtain citizenship legally are entitled to absolute equality of treatment under the law.

Nevertheless, I oppose mass immigration to the UK for several reasons. One is the belief that in a supposedly democratic state, it is the responsibility of the government to act in the interest of the majority, and I believe that mass immigration to Britain is not in the interests of the majority. Another reason is that I value human diversity. And just as I would be horrified by a nuclear holocaust perpetrated against Iran, or against the Arabs as advocated by the Zionist maniac Barbara Amiel, I am against the elimination of the British as a distinct nation.

Of course, people come and go, and limited immigration does not threaten the existence of the British nation. However, if you look at the demographics, it is clear that mass immigration if long continued will totally transform the British nation as a biological entity.

Could some of the difference b/w British and Scottish/ Welsh nationalsim resides in the perception that the former is associated still with concepts of empire as constructed in C19th – with ‘Britain’ as the New Rome.

Furthermore, while France, etc. had several revolutions and got rid of its monarchies, the UK (or rather, England) had a revolution but thereafter restored its monarchy and since C19th, the concept of ‘Britain’ seems to me to have been tied-up very tightly – and deliberately so – with that of its monarchy, aristocracy, its class system.

On the other hand, until the last decade years or so, many ‘black’ people (I use the term in its inclusive, 1970s sense) would call themselves ‘British’ rather than ‘English’, though this has changed somewhat recently.

I think your expression of alarm wrt immigration is hyperbolic, Alfred, I’ve said that, or something similar, before. I think you’re looking at a plastic duck through a periscope and seeing a monster. I’m not saying there aren’t problems, but you know, South Devon and much of the rest of the UK – I’m in Elgin this evening, for example -haven’t changed that much in terms of ethnic composition since you lived there. I mean obviously Britain has changed since the 1950s. But so has France and most other European countries. So has South Korea, for that matter. I think you need to relax about it and not compare it to a nuclear holocaust. It’s this type of metaphor which I sense drives people bananas. Being opposed to what you term, mass immigration is a valid point-of-view. But comparing it nuclear war is not. I realise you were using a metaphor, but you’ve used it several times and I think it actually undermines your argumentation, Alfred.

The material about the historian is really fascinating though. That’s the thing about your posts, Alfred, and imay be why Clark expressed perplexity. More than most, as presented here on this auspicious blog, you are a paradox, or perhaps a set of paradoxes, a stone, cut with many surfaces, not all of which seem (to the outsider) to align with the others.

Suhayl Saadi,

thank you. Somehow we are all cosmic beings and selfish animals simultaneously, despite the seeming paradox. Mud that sat up.

Alfred,

thank you, too; that was a very clear answer. I don’t think the “BNP is a fraudulent party controlled by the security services”; I think they are really like that. But I’d like to know where they got the money for their electioneering, including the massive leaflet drop, and yes, I think they are used, but only by giving them money and letting them get on with it.

I was invited to an animal rights meeting around 1990. It was a very strange affair. The public were the ‘anarchist’ and ‘hippy’ types I expected, festival sorts (I was one of these, I suppose). The ones who seemed like organisers or activists seemed more like BNP; spiv suits and shaved heads or crew cuts, with an atmosphere of threat about them. They evangelised at me; I didn’t like it, and I never went to another.

Suhayl and Alfred,

I think that one effect on this site is that several different threads are being added to by many people; sometimes, when it’s busy, it can be difficult to keep up, especially if composing comments of ones own. It’s not linear. I see something by person B, and comment on it out of context, because I didn’t notice that it was in answer to person A. Or I spend a while composing a comment, click “Post”, only to see that another comment has arrived meanwhile, changing the context of my own.

This is why I’m often trying to smooth things over; misunderstandings can easily arise.

Suhayl,

the elimination of the British as a distinct nation would amount to a holocaust.

It is irrefutable that the significance of the impact of immigration is a matter of numbers. Vague, hand-waving comments about it “not being as bad as you think” do not constitute a valid position. Some of the numbers are horrifying to anyone opposed to the elimination of the British nation as a distinct entity.

In London, for example, almost half the native population has already gone, and the birthrate data presents an even more devastating picture.

In my father’s home town of Leicester, the immigrant population is already the majority. I don’t have the birthrate data for Leicester to hand, but they must signal the virtual extirpation of the indigenous population within a generation.

Your are an advocate of large scale immigration to Britain. You are free to take that position. I will never agree with it. And I reject absolutely your notion that I am suffering from a distortion of vision that transforms an inconsequential phenomenon into a phantasmagoric monster.

You say, “Could some of the difference b/w British and Scottish/ Welsh nationalsim resides in the perception that the former is associated still with concepts of empire as constructed in C19th – with ‘Britain’ as the New Rome.”

Well that may be the case in the minds of some, but the BNP seem to advocate a Swiss style neutrality for Britain, not an empire. So to those advocating British nationalism, that argument does not stand up.

Clark,

You say “I don’t think the ‘BNP is a fraudulent party controlled by the security services’”.

You may be right, but in that case Cambridge University graduated one dumb lawyer in Nick Griffin, since he almost single-handedly threw any chance his party had in the last election with his nose-pulling, Marmite waving, attempted murder alleging, absurdities, not to mention the secretly filmed racial slurs that promptly went mainstream.

The thing is though, when seen arguing a case, Griffin does not seem dumb. He argues as you would expect a Cambridge-trained lawyer: competently. Looking through U-Tube videos I have never seen him floored.

But, you may be right. The whole lot of them may be nuts. But then why have a reasonable and populist platform and then go out of your way to nauseate everyone? Very strange.

A BNP animal activist certainly sounds scary. But in a way it makes sense. Knuckle-draggers opposed to sticking needles in monkeys’ brains.

Suhayl,

Life it seems to me, is far too complicated to explain according to some unified theory. As an empiricist, I do my best to figure out bits and pieces. If the result is paradoxical, I attribute that to the material one has to work on.

Alfred, that’s a bit like picthing-up in particular parts of Brooklyn, NYC and extrapolating from that that North America is being taken over by Koreans/Russians/Italians/Caribbeans/Vietnamese, etc., etc. You’ve picked the most concentrated areas in the UK and extrapolated. Furthermore, you that immgrants and descendents of immigrants actually create net jobs and that what you term, ‘the British nation’ benefits from that process. There areas of deprivation in the UK, but that’s an economic issue to do with fundo capitalism and affects immigrants and others, alike. Leicester actually is a success story. Every city in the UK will not become Leicester, it’s specific place and the demographics reflect specific circumstances. Same with Bradford and some other towns. There is absolutely no chance of ‘The British mation’ being expunged from the face of the earth. Most immigration nowadays is ‘white’ immigration from Europe. London is replete with white South Africans and French people – oh, and Canadians! One might, if one were in a naughty mood, say to you, Alfred, “Why don’t you come back to where you came from?”, but I’m not in a naughty mood this morning. Perhaps white British people ought to have more babies… what d’you think?

Take this in good spirit, Alfred.

Lucky for Alfred the censor came in and saved his bacon.

Steelback and Apostate were eating you for breakfast.

The idea that Rhodes was not a racist is patently absurd.I can assure you that the men who worked his mines were black-and it was melanin not mineral deposit!

Just how many black people were in the Round Table Group do you think?

On Rhodes’s legacy of racism and Quigley’s account of the Milner Group’s role in the Balfour Declaration,the post-WW1 Mandates,and the League:

http:www.biblebelievers.org.au/saiia.htm

On the phenomenon of Zionist bankers,if the censor thinks he can airbrush all the evidence of their role in revolutions and wars throughout history he’s got his work cut out.

On their role in prolonging WW1 by re-supplying Germany via the Belgian Relief Committee and the execution of Edith Cavell:

http://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2009/11/war-is-racket.html

On Trotsky and the Billionaires Club who financed Bolshevism:

http://fufor.twoday.net/stories/3248889/

Alfred,

you wrote: “the elimination of the British as a distinct nation would amount to a holocaust”.

That is just silly. ‘Holocaust’ means killing and suffering, the violent deaths of many people, not a gradual transformation of culture. This is the sort of statement that leads to you being identified with the BNP; wouldn’t you rather retract it?

Seems the real researchers are getting space on the comment board again.

Maybe Craig’s in Africa again?

So, Alfred you’re not off the hook after all.

With a political hero like Jimmy Goldsmith no wonder you think so much of Rhodes’s Round Table.

Like Rhodes Goldsmith was close to the Rothschilds,being a distant cousin of “Fifth Man” Victor Roth.

Like Rhodes Jimmy loved elite intrigue and in 1973 at Victor’s suggestion Jimmy met with members of the Clermont Set including David Sterling,Peter Wright to discuss how they might best prevent the return of Harold Wilson to power.

Notwithstanding Jimmy’s intrigues to stop him in the following year Wilson was in Number 10 again.Jimmy started funding the Centre for Policy Studies launched with support from Thatcher,Joseph and its director Alfred Sherman.

By 1977 Sir Jimmy ( he’d been knighted by Wilson with whom he had latterly formed a friendship) launched the Adam Smith Institute to promote deregulation and economic liberalism.

Thatcher’s 1979 election win saw Jimmy return to business while she implemented the decidely monetarist agenda he’d been busy promoting.

By 1989 Jimmy was launching the Bruges Group to campaign against further EU integration with the shortly to be dethroned Thatcher continuing as a powerful ally.

In 1996 Jimmy set up the Referendum Party.Perhaps it was this that was the one step too far and made him enemies who were even more powerful than himself.

Jimmy’s legacy is a bit like Rhodes’s but on a decidedly smaller scale.

Jimmy laid the ground for the birth of Thatcherism,1975-79.

His anti-EU integration campaign helped ensure that the UK would not participate fully in the EU project.

In Simon Matthew’s assessment of Jimmy’s legacy (Lobster 55) he notes that it was Goldsmith’s money that played the decisive role in the achievement of these outcomes.The UK’s democratic deficit allowing men of influence such as he to lobby for their desired political ends.

If you share Jimmy’s political goals he will be a hero in the Rhodes mould.When we look at Goldsmith’s career in Africa it bears uncanny resemblances to his imperialist forebear.

Like Rhodes,Goldsmith enjoyed the company of robber barons,imperialists and fascists.Such figures as John Aspinall,Lord Lucan,Tiny Rowland,the Cecil family,and Julian Amery.Jimmy and these others part of the same business,international intelligence circles.

They financed the training of African rebels across the continent officially to counter the Soviet threat but like Rhodes their real abiding interest lay in extracting minerals.

Human rights and democracy mean little in such circles so unsurpringly some of the worst dictators were backed by the Goldsmith crowd.Pinochet,Mobutu,Ian Smith to name but a few.

Goldsmith took over SAS pal,Sterling’s security company KAS Enterprises in 1990 when the latter died.KAS was hired by wealthy conservatives,like Prince Bernhardt, to stamp out not rhino poachers but ANC activists!

With incipient fascist heroes like Goldsmith we get a pretty good idea where our resident biologist is coming from!

If there’s one thing to be learned from the careers of men like Goldsmith it is that you can’t keep “a good man down”!

And Steelback, you are one good man!

It’s gone so quiet we can guess the disinfo. gang are somewhat traumatized by your re-appearance from the dead.

As they clutch their garlic cloves and bless themselves they must be thinking-

“Shit!”

And not being very bright they will surely miss the irony that one of their leading players-someone who spends his entire day-when he’s not dissecting frogs for DNA that is-attacking “conspiracy theorists” is himself wont to support people like Rhodes and Goldsmith who have been engaged in conspiracies since,in the case of the latter at least, the days of Cromwell!

LOL!

Jimmy’s brother Edward was heavily involved in the environmental scam and started groups allied with the likes of Lord Lymington with eugenicist/depopulation agendas not dissimilar from those of elite projects like Prince Philip’s WWF.

Philip and his old fascist ally Prince Bernhardt of the Netherlands set up WWF and Bilderberger.

They’re both multicultural,PC-friendly imperialists though.

No worries!

LOL!

Clark,

I agree that “holocaust” is overused. But it has come to be used as a synonym for genocide.

And when I talk about the impact of mass immigration by people with a substantially above replacement birth rate into a society with substantially below replacement birthrate, I am talking about a form of genocide.

The effects of this process are masked for now because of the long post-reproductive life of the indigenous population.

I see the Apostate/Steelback person(s) were lying even when the promised to bugger off. Too bad.

Since Steelback wants to smear Sir James Goldsmith, why not listen to Goldsmith speak for himself? This U-Tube page provides links to a three part Video of Goldsmith’s November 15, 1994 speech before the Senate of the United States.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Free+Trade:+Sir+James+Goldsmith+US+Senate+Speech+Nov.+15+1994

The Senators ignored his warning about the catastrophe that would follow the GATT treaty to enable global free trade, and since then US unemployment has almost doubled, real wages have declined and America has gone from a budget surplus to a $trillion plus annual budget deficit. The same sort of devastation is occurring, obviously, in Britain and across Europe.

It is interesting to note the line that Steelback takes. He tells you that Jews like Jimmy goldsmith and Lord Rothschild are apostates and criminals who threaten the very existence of the Jews of Israel. This puts you in the unenviable position of being an anti-Semite if you hate Jimmy Goldsmith and an anti-Semite if you don’t.

My own business experience, limited though it has been compared with that of a titan such as Goldsmith, confirms absolutely what he says.

When I launched my publishing company in 1986, the publishing industry largely operated as in the quill-pen era. Manuscripts were received, blue-penciled by an editor and sent to a typesetter. The typesetting was done by skilled men who had completed a lengthy apprenticeship and who earned high wages.

Because our material included math and other non-standard typographical elements, we had to go to the largest and most expensive type shop in Vancouver. We paid $80.00 an hour for labor, and we paid $1.25 a line for corrections, which more often than not amounted to something as slight as the insertion or deletion of a comma.

As soon as it became possible, we took the typesetting and page layout in house, using desktop systems. We were one of the very first scholarly journal publishers to do so. This change allowed us to do the typesetting for $30.00 to 35.00 an hour, including overheads, a reduction in cost that gave us much greater scope for editing, since an article could then be put through multiple rounds of editing without bankrupting us.

Having our material in digital form, allowed us to put it on the Internet, and we were among the first scholarly journal publishers to do this. However, digital distribution entailed various processed to transform the content into the necessary formats, including PDF, HTML, and XML. This required new skills and added substantial labor costs.

In time the half dozen multinational publishers with whom we competed got up to speed. They then abandoned the most useful part of the publishing service, i.e., text and graphics editing, and fact checking, and outsourced what work remained to Chennai, India where they pay, perhaps, $2.00 an hour.

At that point I had little in the way of long-term options but to wind the business down, notwithstanding that our main publication was the most prestigious in its field (out of around 100 titles) according to an independent analysis of literature citations, or accept one of several offers from multinational competitors.

Naturally, I accepted the highest offer. As my former staff are all bright people, they were able to find other interesting work. Nevertheless, the Canadian economy has lost jobs.

I look for other ways to employ my capital and this could generate new jobs. But the reality is that, because of globalization, the bulk of the world’s new jobs are, as James Goldsmith warned, in Asia at wages of less than a dollar an hour.

In effect, big business, through its control of public policy, has created a plantation economy, where million in Asia, working under conditions little different from slavery, do the World’s work, and an increasing proportion of the European working class, blue and white collar, become white (more or less) trash, as in America’s Southern slave states.

Alfred,

if the ‘indigenous’ UK population (quote marks, because their indigeneity depends upon how far back you choose to look) decline to breed, that is their own decision; genocide implies something inflicted.

I guess from your choice of words that you feel strong emotions about the decline (or transformation) of the British. Just a suggestion – maybe, instead of getting upset about what is to be ‘lost’ (ie consigned to the past), you should celebrate that which you esteem so highly by describing it; maybe that would encourage people to preserve it.

Don’t let the Apostate Puppet Theatre upset you – ‘they’ are a funny lot, but often quite interesting.

Apostate et al,

I have some problems with your style:

1) You present a long list of statements as fact, weaving a world – view that would take ages to confirm or refute. Please remember that others have no more reason to accept that you know the truth any better than anyone else.

2) You seem to be dividing the various players into ‘good guys’ and ‘bad guys’; most people are a mix of both. Right actions sometimes proceed from wrong motivations, etc.

3) Instead of admitting to any uncertainty, you assign different viewpoints to your different sock – puppets, and have them argue about it. OK, it’s your choice, if you’d really rather do it that way…

Alfred

You are worth your weight in entertainment value alone.

When you told us Rhodes was a multicultural imperialist the clapometer went up.

Now you’re telling us Jimmy Goldsmith was an anti-globalisation hero-the clapometer just hit the roof!

Get real,pal!

Alfred’s political naivete must have something to do with being a scientist.

To claim that “Green Billionaire” Goldsmith was striking a blow for the common man is risible indeed.Embarrassing as well.

To say Goldsmith was a shady character is an understatement.His cronies in Le Cercle included Kermit Roosevelt and George Soros.

There’s some fishy empathy with speculators and asset-strippers going on here which won’t win Alfred any friends among the common people! (LOL)

Time for Alfred to come clean,methinks.

Have been watching mud spewing from the floor of the Gulf of Mexico. Much more interesting than the Steelback’s ranting:

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6520

As far as I can ascertain Goldsmith’s race was never mentioned in Lobster’s pretty laudatory assessment of his life and achievements.

Typically the research-averse/PC/Disinformation dingbats tried to make it an issue and fell flat on their faces.

Respect Apostate!

Bet they’re praying Cathouse Larry’s about to come to their rescue!

If there’s someone who could make anti-semitism/”conspiracy theory”/”Holocaust Denial” issues it’s Cathouse!

They’d ALL be illegal if Sunstein, Alfred, Cathouse et al had their way!

Mind you when he’s not running Silverstein’s whorehouse that’s Larry’s job!

Here’s an interview that Jimmy Goldsmith did in 1994 in which he accurately predicted the economic devastation that we are now seeing as a result of globalization:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PQrz8F0dBI

The sound track is better that that in the link I provided yesterday to Goldsmith’s US Senate presentation.

As Steelback asserts, Goldsmith was an asset stripper. Asset stripping is what any competent capitalist does: maximize the return on the assets employed.

Goldsmith was one of the last capitalists. A highly intelligent individual able to out think the hired managers of the corporate monopolists.

Globalization, which Goldsmith opposed, is all about cartels and monopolies. That is what so many of the French and British upper class liked about Nazism. The Chamberlain group in Britain were talking cartels with the Germans at least as late as the declaration of war, and possibly later. The French, under occupation happily divided markets for coal, steel, chemicals, communications, etc. among German and French monopolists.

And like many successful capitalists, Goldsmith turned in later life to using some of his wealth to promote causes he believed would benefit society.

But evidently, the cause that James Goldsmith championed in his last days, the interests of ordinary working people in Britain, is not one that engages the sympathy of Liberals. I have raised the issue of 8 million unemployed and on the dole, partially employed, or totally discouraged British workers a number of times on this blog, but never with any response: one scrap of evidence, surely, of the truth of Malcolm Muggeridge’s assertion that “Liberalism is the disease of our civilization.”

It is disconcerting to be classed by Freeborn (why is it that most of the people posting here have no real name?) with Cas Sunshine — normally referred to on my Web page as Crass Sunshine, Dr. Goebbels, etc., etc, and Looney Larry, who as I recall, addressed me on the last occasion we communicated as “fucking nuts”.

I think I will resume watching mud, which is quite soothing, even though a good part of my pension fund resides with the seemingly clueless clutzes running the show in the Gulf of Mexico.

Here’s another link to the spill kill, if that’s not a misnomer:

http://blogs.ft.com/energy-source/2010/05/28/live-blog-bp-top-kill/

Alfred,

ignore Freeborn’s insults. He’s an Apostate etc. sock puppet. I’ve come in for the same thing, and expect to do so again.

Your post at 6:15 PM is interesting. You distinguish between capitalism and global corporatism. I agree that the latter is worse. Possibly simply because it is much greater in power, has manipulated governments and now exceeds their power.

Capitalism had to be kept in check; I believe that to be one of government’s primary functions. This is why I see international democracy as an urgent need; with corporate power now global in magnitude a suitable counterforce is required This probably makes me a ‘New World Order shill’ in some people’s opinions. Also, a global currency would help to expose the vast imbalances in income, though other methods would be possible.

Your paragraph about the Second World War reminds me of Gravity’s Rainbow by Thomas Pynchon.

Yes, capitalists sometimes go all gooey in later life (guilt? About to meet their Maker?); Bill Gates may have just suffered that fate. Corporations never do, because they are structures rather than individuals.

However, the last paragraph is poor argument. That Goldsmith’s interests coincided (to some extent) with those of ordinary working people was a by-product of the rise of corporatism rather than a genuine alliance. Your criticism of ‘Liberals’ is a sweeping generalisation; Craig has certainly spoken up for working people and those excluded from work. And that no one has supported you on this issue is, I suspect, due to your former ambiguity that led to you being regarded as racist; they didn’t want to support an argument that could have been “they come over here and take our jobs”.

And yes, the anonymity of various commenters is disappointing.

What a pair of dingbats-feeling sorry for yourselves.

The sort of stuff you guys write we get quite enough of in the corporate media.

It’s utter bullshit!

If you want to sing paeons for the likes of Rhodes and Goldsmith you should expect to receive a bit of abuse.

Please take a hike and subscribe to some Boys Own imperialist rag where you might be appreciated.

Only those who can’t be arsed to some proper dilligent research could come to such facile conclusions re-a pair of robber barons like those two.

Grow up the pair of you!

Hey, Apostate,

Are your suffering from compulsive vituperation disorder, or what.

Why don’t you give us a break and tell us more about Rabbi Marvin, the most-intelligent-man-in-the-World, Antelman?

Alfred,

see? What did I tell you?

Apostate,

I once built a computer controlled lighting rig for a puppet theatre. As they were only a company of two, generally all four of their hands were ‘on stage’, so they needed a system that could advance to the next cue by pressing a foot switch. Commercial computerised lighting rigs were beyond their means, so I stitched one together out of a MIDI-to-light controller (for bands) and a Sinclair ZX Spectrum microcomputer that could send MIDI signals. It was one of the most rewarding projects I’ve ever been involved in. My favourite scene was a shadow play; a character with extreme thirst struggling to reach a tap, set to ‘The Talking Drum’ from ‘Larks Tongues in Aspic’ by King Crimson.

I hope you cheer up one day. We might even have a conversation.

Clark,

What did you tell me?

I’m confused.

However, interesting story about the light show. You must be quite ancient, though still my junior, to have had a Sincliar 2X Spectrum.

I really only came back to say that the chance of anything useful arising from further discussion of Marvin Antelman must be slight to negative, assuming a probability can be negative, which perhaps it can’t.

I was going to suggest we all talk about mud. Very soothing. I expect Suhayl could provide some literary input here.

From what I understand of BP’s spill kill op., the idea is to pump high density mud down the well so the weight of it holds the oil down.

To get the mud down the well, they have to inject it under pressure to counteract the pressure of the upwelling oil. However, the blowout preventer (BOP) is defective or damaged and so some mud spews out through holes in the riser rather than going down the well. The fact that the mud comes out in fits and starts may reflect the pulsating pressure generated by the 30,000 horse power hydraulic pump at the surface, which is driving the mud down the well.

Pressure at the bottom of the well is around 14,000 pounds per square inch, or an astounding 28,000 tons per square metre — a pair of metre-diameter hydraulic jacks operating at that pressure could lift the Titanic from the ocean floor to the surface, and quite probably into low earth orbit.

But in anycase, the pressure in the reservoir is largely counteracted by the weight of oil in the five-mile deep bore hole. At the ocean floor the pressure is only a couple of thousand pounds per square inch. This is the pressure against which the mud has to be pumped.

To stop the reflux of mud through the BOP, they have been shooting bits of old tyre, golf balls and knotted string in with the mud. Some of this can be seen shooting out the holes in the riser where the mud is spewing.

But perhaps the old tyres, etc. are supposed to block leaks elsewhere too. Anyway, they have to get the mud far enough down the well to stop the flow of oil, because until the oil stops flowing they cannot cap the well with concrete, because flowing concrete will not set.

Sof far, things do not seem to be going very well. There is a new Oil Drum thread covering developments as they occur:

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6522

Alfred,

I’m 47. My “what did I tell you” was regarding my prediction of further abuse from Apostate / whoever.

The lighting rig project was early ’90s. There were more advanced computers available, but we were keeping prices down. The second-hand ZX Spectrum (Plus 2 version) was chosen because it was the cheapest machine with both a MIDI port and a floppy drive. It turned out that I had to write assembly language to drive the MIDI port, so any port would have done just as well.

“Bits of old tyre, golf balls and knotted string” – I’m reminded of Monty Python:

Everything goes in,

Everything goes out,

Fish, bananas,

Old pyjamas,

Mutton, beef and trout!

Deep sea chaos. I just hope they get it sealed off soon. The team at The Oil Drum seem to know their stuff. They say that there’s about 100 million barrels in the well. That would keep the US going for five whole days. Why the hell is oil measured in these arbitrary ‘barrels’, anyway?

Mud. Mud that got clever. Mud that sat up. The Book of Bokonon, from Cat’s Cradle by Vonnegut. Ice Nine and global catastrophe. I Googled “Ice 9″ once and found that there really are lots of numbered crystalline forms of ice, including Ice IX, though it isn’t dangerous:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_IX

Yawn, it’s late here; I’m off to bed.

Clark,

Ha, right. Apostate. Maybe if we treat him/her/whatever kindly, it will become tame and friendly. We could try.

Good Monty Python lyrics. Very appropriate.

Having no tel, I missed out on that important part of what my daughter calls “the culture”: at first I thought she was talking about western civilization, but I have it straight now.

Good Vonnegut quote too. Unfortunately, BP don’t seem to have clever mud.

I guess the US, as the world’s chief consumer of oil, dictates to the world how oil is measured, and if you’re top dog, why abandon what you’re used to for some new-fangled French idea.

Born in 63. You missed a few things. Sir Edmund Hilary, the first European to climb Everest — probably carried the last bit by his sherpa; ban the bomb marches; Roger Bannister’s 4-minute mile in 1954; the 1958 Berlin crisis; the first Austin Mini, and JFK’s assassination.

In 63, I was a first-year undergraduate devoted in about equal measure to the pursuit girls (British secondary schools in those days were virtually all segregated) and the consumption of booze. I crawled a good few pubs with classmate Postman Patel.

Yes, the ZX. Margaret Thatcher presented one to the Prime Minister of Japan. I wonder what the Japs(anese) made of it! After that, Sir Clive rather bombed with his adult pedal car – built at a vacuum cleaner factory in Wales, I seem to recall.

Tired here too. Have to take the weekend off.

Cheers

Clark, that sounds like a cosmic light-show! King Crimson… a heavy band.

Alfred, we did that a couple of months ago with Apostate and he did converse with some of us us for a while; it was actually very interesting – I hope he won’t mind me saying that he indicated he was a disillusioned ex-Leftist and Led Zeppelin fan.

This may be what happens to people whose dreams of a better society don’t work out, they become cynical. Oh, this’ll probably elicit a tirade from Steelback. Anyway, in anticipation and musical solidarity, here’s to Apostate. Keep the love, man:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T12wRBAhcTY&feature=related

Hello Suhayl!

Could you give me a link to that Apostate thread you mention; I’d like to read it. Thanks for the ‘Dazed and Confused’ link, which is buffering; I’ve exceeded my download limit so my ISP has throttled my bandwidth until next week. I love ‘Presence’, though I’ve heard that ‘true’ Led Zep fans disapprove of that album.

Crimson; I like everything from Earthbound onwards; ‘Cat Food’ is a laugh. John Wetton on bass, with an overdriven valve amp. Electric piano, electric guitar, electric violin, all overdriven, causing their sounds to converge, leaving the style as the major indicator of which instrument you’re hearing. ‘The Mincer’, where the tape seems to run out…

I just played ‘Dazed and Confused’; superb performance, excellent dynamics. Respect to Bonham and Jones, keeping such a solid foundation amid that frontline chaos.

Apostate,

Human affairs change slowly compared with our meagre lifetimes and it’s very frustrating. It really looked like we were getting somewhere in the ’80s; The Wall came down, Apartheid fell, but no, here we are twenty years later staring disaster in the face. Keep the faith, despite your username. Better times will come. The elite may gather the money to themselves, only to find that it has become worthless.

Alfred,

I was at a state Boys Grammar. It started converting to a mixed comprehensive as I entered my third year there. You shared a class with Edward Teague?

The ZX had poor built-in software. The Cambridge / BBC machines were much better, in my opinion. The different approaches were exemplified in the choice of processors; the Spectrum used the 8080 derived Z80 with its overly complicated instruction set and high power requirements – this line developed into the modern x86 PCs. The BBC used the 6800 derived 6502 with a reduced instruction set that could be memorised by a mortal programmer – this line developed into the PowerPC Macs etc. It’s now extinct in the PC market, killed by the combined commercial power of Microsoft (who don’t want you to understand your computer’s works) and their former ally Intel. But it lives on in mobile ‘phones and set-top boxes.

Clark, here it is. (look under freeborn, steelback, apostate and the rest!)

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2010/03/class_does_matt.html

Thanks, Suhayl.

Yes, I think I have a clearer idea of Apostate etc’s motivations now.

Apostate,

‘”When the land tilts, run south. You are the important one, the dreamer, seeing, where others face an empty, blank wall”.

The land tilted and I ran north, for not only did the land tilt the other way, but no one tells me what to do!’

Yes, thanks Suhayl, had completely fogotten that thread. Too much going on.