I too am disgusted.

Israel is a barbaric country and should be immediaely isolated.

Apparently BBC obfuscation of the issue began early.

http://johnhilley.blogspot.com/2010/05/bbc-still-silent-on-gaza-flotilla.html

Hague has now issued a statement:

http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/news/latest-news/?view=News&id=22300485

Finally something from Hague, as of 12.13: “UK Foreign Secretary William Hague said he “deplored” the loss of life on the flotilla and was seeking more information and urgent access to any UK nationals.”

There’s a bit more on the BBC news online site.

Don’t know about this one.

Surely the troops would not start blasting out bullets for no reason…and let us wait to find out what the ships were carrying..

The whole world is now ruled on just one premise.

Might is right.

Turkey, isn’t that the country that perpetrated the Armenian genocide after WW1? Also isn’t Turkey oppressing the Kurds as well? Remember the ancestors of the Turks – the Ottomans – ruled Palestine for 400 years. Free Palestine, free Kurdistan!

Yes, Turkey oppresses the Kurds. How does that justify the Israelis boarding an aid convoy in international waters and killing peace activists?

Livny has just been on Sky News speaking about provocation justifying the extreme violence of Israeli commando forces. What could be more provocative than heavily armed Israeli commandos attacking these defenceless boats from helicopters while 80 miles offshore in international waters?

At least we never heard once the word “antisemitic” which is normally the only word in the vocabulary of Israeli politicians. As a substitute we are now expected to believe these people were all “Hamas terrorists” – give us a break. Israel just feels so compunction about killing any Goyim they feel like crushing like cockroaches.

So long as Israel is so very brutal towards its neighbours it is ever harder to be positive in one’s thoughts. These are the rantings and ravings of political autism. Combine that with Israel’s constant denial of their massive WMD including more nuclear warheads than the UK owns, it is time for a massive rethink about why the West (especially the USA) supports this barbaric regime without question.

OK I am off to Downing St to demonstrate. I’ll get an update on Brian Haw while I am there.

Don’t tell me that anyone here thougth Israel would not expose the/any British Govt’s slaveishness?

It was going to be Israyhell or banking (and to some there is little difference)

British cowards.

Craig,

Do you have a view on the legality of occupants of a ship using force to repel boarders? Does it matter whether the boarders are the armed forces of a nation state to the answer? Does it matter whether or not the ship flew a white flag?

I’d be curious to read a detailed legal analysis.

The craven attitude of the media and the politicians towards Israel is appeasement of the worst possible kind. Every time they turn a blind eye Israel believes it can go further the next time. Had Iran done this to the British sailors it captured the media and political response would have gone into overdrive and we would probably have launched retaliatory strikes. Why should Israel get a free pass on this? It is difficult to express the depth of disgust Israel provokes now, to any decent humane person.

From lwtc247 at 12.54 – “It was going to be Israyhell or banking (and to some there is little difference)” – sorry, but that comment reveals your vile antisemitism. We all know how it goes – ‘Urrrr, them jews and their bags of money, they control the world-wide web of banking you know, and the Tri-Lateral Commission and the Tea Party and Disney, urrrrr’

Usual monomanical racist bollocks.

Roger Whittaker at 2010 12:38 PM,

thanks for the FCO link: that’s a pretty good statement from Hague. Although he doesn’t mention the illegality of an attack in international waters, he does call for the lifting of the blockade of Gaza.

We wait to see if it’s a case of “say one thing, do the opposite”.

The Israelis have a history of attacking vessels on the high seas. Lets not forget what happened to USS Liberty in 1967

http://www.gtr5.com/

Israeli aircraft and ships spent 2 hours pummelling the Liberty killing 34 of her crew.

The reaction of the US government was to cover it up and go along with the fiction it was a case of ‘mistaken identity’.

For an awfully long time the Israelis have known they can do absolutely **anything** and no one will lift a finger to stop them.

surely it is this kind of incident which by accident or design can trigger a whole spectrum of unforseen consequences and military actions.

How far will Israel push it, where is the tipping point here?

When you have unruly neighbours who just won’t follow accepted conventions and civilised behaviours then there comes a time when only heavy handed and violent actions are the only alternative.

I fear that time is coming nearer.

Lwtc247,

Mike Cobley,

I respectfully suggest you tone it down a bit. Aid workers have DIED. Please concentrate on that which you agree about, and not fall victim to ‘divide and rule’.

This terrorist by act took place at 32.583 North 33.456 East 79 miles from Israel coast…….Facts from Marinetraffic .com

@ mike cobblers mike May 31, 2010 1:11 PM

In mikes eyes, Zionist bankers are not Zionists but Jews. Mike as usual cannot differentiate between Jews and Zionists.

Usual ignorant tosh.

William Hague’s reaction sounds fine to me.

“Yes, Turkey oppresses the Kurds. How does that justify the Israelis boarding an aid convoy in international waters and killing peace activists?”

Craig, glad you recognise Turkey’s oppression of the Kurds. No it does not attacking an aid convoy but was Israel provoked into attacking that ship?

Also how come there is no aid convoy for the oppressed Kurds, Armenians and Assyrians in Turkey?

I wonder whether this violent, military attack on unarmed civilian ships, in international waters, with such heavy loss of life, will be called a ‘massacre’ by the leaders of the so-called ‘international community’? I have my doubts somehow.

Imagine if Iran or North Korea had launched such an attack, how differently the mainstream media would have reacted, but of course they are both official enemies whilst Israel is an official friend. That makes all the difference.

It’s apalling that such a tiny, and insignificant country, is treated as if it was some kind of great power, with journalists, news organizations and politicians, incredibly careful about not appearing to criticize Israel or its increasingly agressive and violent behaviour. Why are UK politicians so circumspect when it comes to Israel?

As a person with a strong Jewish line in our family tree, I feel nothing but contempt for the ghastly and dangerous changes that are taking place in Israel, especially with our history.

When did Israelis change into the virtual ‘master race’ of the Middle East? The sick, racist, Zionist, fantasy of dominating the region by military force is the exact opposite of the strategy Israel should be adopting. Israel needs to integrate and become just another of the many minorities in the region, otherwise the future is very bleak.

Israel, by actions like these and, heaven forbid, the next war that it is planning, is sowing the seeds of its own eventual destruction, when the region finally explodes. And every new massacre only brings that day closer.

Somehow, the stranglehold of the Israeli nationalist, rightwing; people who could easily pass for fascists, and what a terrible histrical irony that is; somehow – the right’s dominance has to be broken before they drag us all into the flames of hell where all that’ll be left is ashes for everyone.

Who do these people think they are?

The Children of God !!!

Ha ha.

About time the rest of the world sorted them out.

The next flotilla should be a 1000

ships.

ps Fox News during the night totally ignored the event.

Tells you everything you need to know about the the infiltration of society by decent society by the Zionists.

Guilt trip,

Isn’t that British occupy Northern Ireland? Free Palestine, Free Northern Ireland, Free Kurdistand.

I don’t give much chance for Iran after this.

Ah jist lurve that lwtc247 – ah got all his hit rekurds, oh he’s got such a big brayne, he is so mighty and right all the time, that is he mah heeero!

Sic.

writerman:

Well said

Clark@1.18 – you’re quite right, such that I will only respond to lwtc (if I respond at all) in terms of obtuse satire. We should save our energies for the real struggle. I hope lwtc247 will agree.

cobley_mike@hotmail.com

Aaah, so that’s where Regev gets it from.

if israel is so ready to murder internatiopnal peace acctivists think about what thewya re doing to the palestinians with uk and usa support.

hague is a disgrace no one would expect anything less of him with his mealy mouthed comments and lack of condemnation, but then we arent going to get it from cameron either a man who is so far up the israeli nether – lands to be a man who has anything to offer in terms of justice and honesty.

lets face it the uk govts are a disgrace and then they wonder why they hate us.

Lwtc247,

Israel’s actions anger me. Our experiences undoubtedly differ, and I expect that you have cause for keener anger than myself. Next, I will follow the link at your blog to the Global Boycott Divestment Sanctions Movement.

Try to appeal to as many as possible.

Thanks for mentioning BDS Clark. BDS is a very powerful act that really is the only bit of power we are able to exercise. Especially when contemporary politics is wondering in the wilderness for far longer than what Moses (peace be upon him) was.

The Global Boycott Divestment & Sanctions Movement, http://bdsmovement.net/ will be able to put you in touch with (reasonably)local groups to get involved in.

I plead with all to do something out this Zionist tyrannical anathema.

Lwtc247,

is there a ay to contact you privately via your blog? If not, see my link below.

Nick Cleggs loyalty lies with Israel, and not the British people in that ship.

Might seem an odd attitude right now but I think we should spare a thought for the average secular Israeli, of which there are many. Their military is obviously out of control, or barely under control, and has become accustomed to silencing dissent with violence and the threat of violence. It is only a matter of time before this becomes the norm within the State of Israel.

The IDF has bungled this badly, one line of the Israeli spokespeople is that the convoy was trying to provoke a reaction, as everyone knows, you do not rise to provocation, especially from a position of strength. When the dust settles here the Israelis will realise how incompetent the IDF is becoming, used to beating up on unarmed civilians they are unable to control situations without resorting to violence, and violence always spirals out of control.

Personally I think it is time to blockade Israel, and see if some time in isolation will help them sort out if they wish to define themselves by race, religion, a mixture of both, or whether they would like to join the 21st century and leave notions derived from prehistory behind.

If I was an Israeli I’d feel surrounded, not by hostile nations, but by armed idiots at home.

MrJohn

Those Good people in Israel you mentioned need to be liberated from the rule of those Zionists who not content with killing Palestinians in occupied territory have now decided to kill people from every nation, every religion in international waters.

What you call Israel needs to be reabsorbed in to a unified middle East, to save for the good of everyone, including the good people of Israel.

lwtc247 = Troll.

Craig’s perceptive remark, that this current lot – the ConLab coalition – are reacting to this latest, bloody crime perpetrated by Israel; in a style that’s virtually indistinguishable from that of the last lot, New Labour, when faced with Israeli crimes, hits the nail on the head.

This is because… there is no difference – not really. There is an apparent difference in tone and style, but the content, underneath the carefully contructed propaganda gloss, the same. In much the same way that the US has changed the face of the emperor, but not the character of the empire.

This is of course a depressing conclusion to come to, that, arguably, the type of ‘reform’ of the system that’s required cannot be achieved through the electoral system alone, but requires the mass, democratic mobilization of the population and their active participation in the political life of the nation, in ways that are defined, and feared, by the ruling elite, as being close to ‘revolutionary’ in content.

What’s needed is a mass movement similar to the revolutions in eastern europe during the collapse of communism. Of course one can argue that this doesn’t sound anyting close to reality of the UK at present. However, as it’s obvious that capitalism, in its current form, is collapsing in a way that’t similar to communism, maybe people won’t have much choice but to take to the streets an revolt.

According to the Guardian online, the IDF have released some footage taken from one of their copters, highlighting the actions of various members of crew and passengers on the Mavi Marmara. And the title of this cinematic masterpiece? – “Demonstrators use violence against Israeli Navy Soldiers”. Indeed. You can almost imagine a little sob at the end of that, a little catch in the throat, as if to say – ‘how could these terrible people be so horrible and violent towards our kind, considerate soldiers?’ For as we all know, the IDF is the epitome of grace and civilised behaviour, much admired around the world.

And in case lwtc247 doesn’t get it, that was satire. Look it up.

Mike Cobley,

thanks; do you have a link to save me searching?

Lwtc247,

thanks for your restraint.

Mrjohn,

A friend of mine who teaches the history of the Middle East, always starts his first year course by explaining that in order to understand the politics of the region one has to remember that Israel is effectively the 51st state of the United States.

This is highly polemical, but it does help to put things in an understandable perspective.

Israel is increasingly coming to resemble the rest of the dictatorships it’s surrounded by in the Middel East, not the shining beacon of ‘democracy’ the propaganda says it is.

Of course, for the occupied people of Palestine, whose country has been wiped off the map by Israel and the approximately four million Palestinians driven into excile and denied the right of return to their homes and the right to participate in the democratic process; the very concept of Israel as a functioning democracy is close to an insulting, vicious, and grotesque piece of farce that adds insult to injury.

Israel is firmly on a increasingly undemocratic trajectory, for all its people, not just the Palestinians, but Jews too who oppose the logic and methods of Zionism gone wild. Zionism gone wild is both a racist and brutally colonialist ideology at heart, and, as such is incompatible with democracy, as it sanctifies the dominance of one ethnic group over all others within the same political frame.

Zionism gone wild is also a form of insanity, national insanity, as Israel’s population, even inside the current borders of Israel proper, is composed of around 18% Palestinians with an extremely high birthrate, meaning that in a couple of decades they will be close to a majority iside Israel. What happens to the ‘dream’ of Israel as a Jewish state then? And what, in couple of decades, will Gaza, and the West Bank look like demographically? Their populations will have almost doubled. Will they still be under occupation or what? And what about the refugees? There will be well over ten million of them still in their refugee camps and still dreaming of returning to their ancestoral homes, which is their right under international law.

So Israel has a stark choice to make, which perceptive Israelis understand too well. Israel can choose to cling to the dangerous myths of Zionism gone wild, and all that this implies given the demographics of the region; or it can become a democracy for all its people; it cannot have both.

Unfortunately I think the right in Israel have made their choice. The only choice they can make, and that’s for a form of ‘final solution’ to the Palestinian problem and that means much more war and destruction.

During war a lot can happen. The plan is to drive the Palestinians out of Israel, one way or another, and at the same time smash the last of the opposition to Israel in the wider Middle East by launching a new war against Syria, Gaza, southern Lebanon, and last but not least… Iran. Then after this new, and final war, with all Israel’s enemies destroyed, a new age will dawn of perpetual peace in the region, a region firmly under Israli control… dream on!

FOI ~ All parties are guilty of membership. The following is interesting: http://www.redress.cc/stooges

mike cobley = idiot

Agreed writerman, sadly… agreed.

Will this badly misjudged Israel commando carnage in international waters make any difference to Western politicians’ and media nodding-dog support for Israel and America’s upcoming slaughter plans for Iran?

Anyone in any doubt should understand precisely the Israeli and US agenda for the Middle East. Death and Mayhem for anyone and everyone else.

Israel has been a fascist and apatheid state for years now, supported by the UK and US. Some people who contribute to this blog are slowly realizing that. How long will it take you to wake up?

doug

First they came for the Communists…

http://stefzucconi.blogspot.com/2010/05/latest-news-headlines-from-haaretz.html

This is dreadful.

I agree with Clark re. Mike Cobley and lwtc247 – guys, please do try to focus on attacking only the culprits in this situation rather than each other.

And British policy in Northern Ireland – the Uber-Zionist letter-writers always disingenuously try to use that chestnut as a shield against any criticism from anyone, even Irish Republicans, who hold a British passport, even (no, especially) when those people are attacking the actions or lack of them of the UK Govt in relation to the Israel/Palestine issue – has nothing whatsoever to do with Israel’s policy in relation to the Palestinians, nor with its tendency to kill foreign activists who support Palestinian human rights.

Nor should the Armenian (or European Jewish) genocide and Turkey’s oppression of the Kurds be used as excuses for Israel to do damn well what it wants anywhere, anytime, to anyone.

Nor should the situation in the DRC be used, nor the Rwandan genocide.

It’s deeply cynical; those Uber-Zionist letter-writers do not give tuppence about any of those conflicts; they just use this rhetorical tactic to disable criticism by tapping into European guilt for a thousand-plus years of Anti-Semitism. They use the corpses of European Jewry to build their own expansile militaristic colonial entity reliant on war. Shame on them! They view the Holocaust as a marketing-tool. Shame on them!

Israel has responsibility for its own actions and cannot duck that responsibility by spinning the globe and pointing the finger at every other situation of conflict.

I now expect a blog-invasion of Uber-Zionists and Neocons. Wait for it…

Good on you, Craig, for your courage and your actions.

‘Good on you, Craig, for your courage and your actions.’

Absolutely.

writerman I entirely agree with the following:

“What’s needed is a mass movement similar to the revolutions in eastern europe during the collapse of communism. Of course one can argue that this doesn’t sound anyting close to reality of the UK at present. However, as it’s obvious that capitalism, in its current form, is collapsing in a way that’t similar to communism, maybe people won’t have much choice but to take to the streets an revolt.”

Instead of words let’s get going!

‘However, as it’s obvious that capitalism, in its current form, is collapsing’

Fascism is capitalism in decay.

Suhayl – I’m with you on that, mate. As for lwtc, well….I’ve moved on.

“This is because… there is no difference – not really. There is an apparent difference in tone and style, but the content, underneath the carefully contructed propaganda gloss, the same.”

this is because there was regime change in all of the parties that resulted in pro war neo con advocates and who are wholly pro zionist.

so in truth the media and usa arent too bothered who wins our elections.

Who decides which parties are acceptable for the role of ‘government’?

Well, contrary to what most people seem to believe, it isn’t the electorate expressing themselves in a democratic election.

When governments ‘tire’ and seem to run out of steam, it’s because they have fulfilled their alloted role in their alloted timeframe, and have outlived their usefulness. It’s time for another lot to take over and strut around the stage for a bit.

Parties lose power and are replaced when the ‘market’ loses ‘confidence’ in them, then they suddenly begin to look ragged and tired, and seemingly everthing starts to go wrong for them.

The question of who exactly gave the ‘markets’ the power and authority to basically decide who rules the country and for how long, is another story.

“I now expect a blog-invasion of Uber-Zionists and Neocons. Wait for it…”

Still waiting, Suhayl? You really are a conspiracy nut like the rest of them. I think you also envision secret agent men actually caring what you think about the world.

Isn’t that a clever trick you have? Anyone who opposes your position must be part of the conspiracy.

writerman,

I believe the power that controls the UK emanates from the inner circles of the Privy Council. This power controls the intelligence services and the vast wealth they have accumulated from selling arms to embargoed countries, frauds etc. The government in power acts as the executive. When the government falls the obedient ministers get rewarded; maybe they’ll be given positions in companies controlled by the apparatus of hidden government.

The privy council was originally a committee of the monarch’s closest advisors to give confidential advice on affairs of state. Why should their role have changed? Why should governance of the state be left to any Tom, Dick or Harry? I believe the Reform Act of 1832 was passed to prevent the revolutionary fever seen in Europe from gaining a foothold in Britain and since then the illusion of democracy has been carefully crafted.

writerman,

I believe the power that controls the UK emanates from the inner circles of the Privy Council. This power controls the intelligence services and the vast wealth they have accumulated from selling arms to embargoed countries, frauds etc. The government in power acts as the executive. When the government falls the obedient ministers get rewarded; maybe they’ll be given positions in companies controlled by the apparatus of hidden government.

The privy council was originally a committee of the monarch’s closest advisors to give confidential advice on affairs of state. Why should their role have changed? Why should governance of the state be left to any Tom, Dick or Harry? I believe the Reform Act of 1832 was passed to prevent the revolutionary fever seen in Europe from gaining a foothold in Britain and since then the illusion of democracy has been carefully crafted.

Larry, regarding your response to Suhayl, yours is more disingenuous rubbish. It has become clear that Israel organises paid and volunteer ‘information armies’ on the internet, to try to influence public opinion or at least cast FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) on the opposing side. You are, presumably, aware of this already. Some of said armies presumably do it for the lucre, some because they are passionate about the Zionist (or whatever other) cause.

I don’t know Suhayl personally, but his is consistently one of the most lucid – and least disruptive – voices here. Your is, again, deliberately awkward and looking to pick a fight. Please at least +try+ to engage constructively. It isn’t hard, even if you disagree with most folks here.

Hallo Nick…..

He’s still asleep, best not wake him up, he’s got a lot to dream about and we would not want him to stop coalescing now, or would we?

CLEGG WOKE UP!

http://atthesauce.blogspot.com/2010/05/fried-egg-israel-attack-on-freedom.html

Note Mike Mansfield QC asked Clegg to back the flotilla as it set sail last week.

“You are, presumably, aware of this already.”

Why? Because I get paid by Israel to post here?

Thanks, Jon, much appreciated – and also thank you to Mike Cobley, re. earlier.

Err, no – just because you read the news. You are, I think, reasonably well-read, and so would be likely to know this already. I include a link in case you weren’t aware of it (the Guardian in the UK is regarded, in mainstream circles at least, centre-left, but the story is I think corroborated across the media).

I am not specifically of the view that you are paid to post here, but if you would like to explain what you +are+ doing here, I would gladly listen. My views about you appearing to be intentionally disruptive are, sadly, unchanged.

(That last comment of mine was addressed to Larry, btw!)