‘The rise of the religious right in Australia’

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/dec2005/chri-d05.shtml

Many Christians are realising the extent of the fabricated lies and conjecture they have been indoctrinated into regarding a geographical Israel and are leaving the institutionalised church in droves. There is a movement to understand that what is happening in the Middle East has nothing to do with the spiritual Israel that the Bible talks about. There was a false premise brought about through misrepresentations in the Scofield bible under J.N. Darby’s influence many years ago, which then spread through American society as it was the most widely used Bible at the time.

I drove past a church in Birmingham, England only yesterday evening to see on its noticeboard an advert for a forthcoming talk, “Bible Prophecy and The Middle East”.

Cripes! I hope they haven’t caught this meme too.

‘You really do need to watch all of this video from the Christian Broadcasting Network’

No, really, I don’t.

The fucking evangelicals are starting to make themselves heard in the UK as well, and it’s becoming quite depressing.

violent religious extremists in both the US and Israel look forward to fighting side by side against the forces of evil in the Last Battle in the Middle East, yet extremist jews and extremist christians each also believe that at the climax, when the world ends, their cherished allies will go to Hell with their enemies

That’s coalition politics for you.

>I was astonished when a lecturer told me that half of his students would agree with the proposition that a war in the Middle East would lead to Armageddon, and that would be a good thing.

Christian and Jewish suicide bombers joining together with their Muslim brethren.

Jesus.

That is some desperate and idiotic crap.

Anyone for a game of Lemmings?

The funny thing about all of this is that, after the Great Conflict, all this business about Gog and Magog rising in the middle east, then the Second Coming will come about. This doesn’t work out at all well for the Jews, who will either have to convert to Christianity or be slaughtered, according to christianist doctrine.

Dubbya Bush was insane enough to believe he was bringing about these end-times prophesies, confessing same to Chirac while trying to get him “on-board” for the Iraq adventure:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2009/aug/10/religion-george-bush

Dubbya also had biblical verses (old testament, of course) on the top of his PDB (presidential daily briefings), giving a summary of how the war was proceeding. We all know about how christians infest the US armed services, particularly the air force.

So the christianists are fully in support of Israel, right up to the point when they’ll all have to be slaughtered. And the Israelis are happy enough for the christianists to believe this hogwash, regarding them as useful idiots for now.

Naturally, the tea-baggers, evangelicals etc. are also used as useful idiots by the repugs, who are more than happy to see them denounce Obama as possibly being nothing short of the anti-christ himself. Little wonder that the right wing in the US wants to destroy their education system, the ability to perform critical thinking is not a skill they like to encourage.

They refer to it not as Armageddon but ‘Readying for the Rapture’. Just hope they don’t take us all down with them.

Look up Wikipedia on Pat Robertson the founder of this CBN outfit and many others on other continents and be very afraid.

‘Look up Wikipedia on Pat Robertson the founder of this CBN outfit and many others on other continents and be very afraid.’

Google John Ashcroft

‘and be very afraid.’

Love the attempted spelling of “living”

Also he is not clear where the Caucasus is.

Doh!

Craig,

if you dismiss as nutters people who hold strong, fundamentalist religious beliefs that aren’t entirely justifiable by logic (like most of our beliefs), you ought to realise first that this will include most of the inhabitants of the countries that you have worked in; people you admire and love; most of the inhabitants of huge areas of the world.

A little humility wouldn’t go amiss. People do have, and are entitled to have, beliefs that you believe to be crazy – probably far, far more people than you would care to admit.

I know that you are well-travelled and well-educated, but you still look at the world through narrow, privileged eyes. Which is pretty astonishing really, given what you have seen and done.

On the plus side, you will attract a small but somewhat fanatical band of disciples (if that’s a plus, in your opinion).

“It is of course the American Christians who are the most destructive violent religious extremists in the world.”

Who knocked down the World Trade Center?

(1) Pope John Paul II

(2) Billy Graham

(3) Mohammed Atta

(4) Melanie Phillips

(5) Ron L Hubbard

(6) The Dalai Lama

Select one answer only.

EI exclusive: Leaked documents show PA undermined Turkey’s push for UN flotilla probe

http://www.winstanleys.org/2010/06/ei-exclusive-leaked-docs-pa/

@Neil – the right to hold fanatical beliefs should be limited by their impact on other people, as is the case with all rights. Armageddonists can reasonably be called nutters, given the violence that comes attached to their views, and which they are calling for, loudly. Your point about privilege is relevant, but not in the way you intended: Christian and Jewish extremists who use the Book of Revelations to justify imperialism in Palestine are either part of a privileged elite, or are directly supporting it.

Many of them asserting these religious views, I think, do not intend to advance the neo-conservative and corporate causes in the US and in Israel, but that’s what they’re achieving. I paraphrase a wise commenter on this board, who said that the point of religion is to interfere in the +political+ sphere, and this is what is happening now. In a way, it has nothing to do with religion – irrational beliefs are just the cover.

Incidentally, your implication that commenters here are just yes-people for Craig comes quite close to trolling, in my view. I differ with Craig on several points, but that doesn’t stop me taking part in these discussions. I doubt you think you’re a yes-man for anyone, so it perhaps is not fair for you to throw the same charge about.

Michael: I think the correct answer is: (7) None of the above.

“@Neil – the right to hold fanatical beliefs should be limited …”

No, it should not. Beliefs are not acts. You are supporting thought police.

In answer to the question ‘who knocked down the World Trade Centre’, could I hazard a guess at The C.I.A. under orders from G.W.Bush.

lol, Jewish books were written for what was good for Jewish people only. I don’t know why these hackers from Europe would waste their time explaining Jewish books. Don’t they have their own books?

Jon – “Incidentally, your implication that commenters here are just yes-people for Craig …. ”

You see implications that aren’t there.

@Neil – Perhaps I put it the wrong way – I didn’t specifically intend to mean that Christian/Zionist religionists should be legally compelled (say, in the UK) not to say what they think. But I do mean to say that there is an impact to calling for religious war, especially given that the war (i.e. the occupation of Palestine) is (to put it mildly) as contentious as is the case. Just look at the list of UN resolutions against Israel on the issue!

On the topic of free speech, are you in favour of British Muslim speech that calls for the deaths of UK personnel in Afghanistan? Should they be invited on the radio to say that, in equal numbers to military spokespeople? I should state that I am not in favour of anyone calling for anyone’s death, even though I sympathise with the Muslim perspective that the superpowers are up to their old imperial ways with the Islamic world.

My point about privilege and religion being used as a mechanism to further selfish political ends was quite salient, and I should be interested to hear your thoughts on it.

@brian powell

That would indeed be a hazardous guess.

It’s a pity the 9/11 truthers have to pop up on Craig’s blog quite so often; it only aids the neo-con trolls.

Neil,

Actually, I think the whole quote was

“…the right to hold fanatical beliefs should be limited by their impact on other people…”

which is just a clumsy way of asserting the limitations of positive rights to religious belief, insofar as they are used to justify *acts* that threaten the liberty of others, and not – as you claim through deliberate misquoting – expressing support of ‘the thought police’.

Then again, I suspect you already knew that.

@Neil – could go on about how instilling this insane apocalyptic, violent gibberish in children amounts to child abuse, but you’d just come back with some other brand of twisted give-em-a-chance bibble-babble. So, in essence, G-F-Y.

Is the Michael above Michael Petek? I think we should be told.

PS Will it be very quiet around here for the next hour or two whilst the 11 very overpaid men in red this time kick a ball around with 11 other men from another country?

PPS One of the fans (fanatics) dressed as a Crusader complete with sword and shield bearing the cross of St George was interviewed beforehand outside the stadium. ‘We were just warming up before. It’s like Jerusalem. We took a long time to warm up then.’ How disgusting. What a mindset.

Wrong, MJ, it was Mohammed Atta. No points there.

Multiple choice question No. 2.

According to Islamic law, unbelievers are given the choice between: (1) becoming Muslims; (2) surviving in the degrading and humiliating condition of dhimmis; (3) being put to death.

If threatened to this effect, what is the correct response to your counterparty?

(1) Become a Muslim.

(2) Agree to live as a dhimmi.

(3) Allow yourself to be killed.

(4) Ram a circus tent spike up his arse.

Select one answer only.

The most destructive religious extremists in the world have been Communism as a state religion, in the first half of the twentieth century, and in the last generation the Islamist Al Qaeda. This can be seen, in the case of Communism, from the books by John Barron and Alexander Solzhenitsyn. American Christians encompass a broad spectrum. Jimmy Carter, for example, is not an uncritical supporter of Israel; his book “Palestine: peace not apartheid” can be recommended. I’ve just ordered his “We can have peace in the holy land”. There are many people holding narrow or even crackpot views in America, and many of these are excessively uncritical of the state of Israel; but American and other christianities are as a group part of the solution, not the problem, because the influences that make for a solution are active in their midst.

@somebody – yes, this is Michael Petek. He’s the only one to use the phrase “dhimmi”, which I presume means “non-believer”.

@Michael – your certainty regarding unbelievers in Islamic law is misplaced. There are a number of examples where Muslims believe they have been commanded to live alongside non-Muslims peaceably. Your position that all Muslims are extremists is akin to my suggesting that all Christians are Zionists and Rapturists, even though most Christians are much more sensible and peaceful than that.

Meanwhile I suspect you are no longer signing with your full name, as you don’t want to be directly related to your website, which reveals you to be an End Of Times believer too. I am not sure I have seen from you, amongst all your anti-Muslim diatribes, a defence of your belief system, which I would argue fuels the violence between Israel/Palestine and their respective sides.

‘the American christians who are the most destructive violent religious extremists in the world’

For a man who has breathed the rarefied air as Queens Ambassador this is a breathtakingly brave and powerful statement that draws a clear line in the sand for British foreign policy to move back behind.

That line represents our honour, British honour – the humanitarian thread that once ran through our armed forces; one that was severed by American evangelistic neocon influence. A once staunch binding that held British qualities of fairness and humility in war.

As a veteran I know it was these qualities that ushered Argentinian prisoners in the Falklands war behind our lines in the confusion of night attacks, despite the threat of hidden weapons unseen in darkness. In that war we felt pity for defeated and dazed young men; we witnessed no torture, no ‘black camps’ no rape of innocent women, no demeaning ridicule of private parts, no massacre and maiming of innocent children and no planting of bombs by special forces disguised as the enemy.

Behind that line in the sand IS the British way – lost by the influence of fanatical beliefs.

We have to regain that pride, that British sense of justice and fight hard to negotiate peace in the Middle-East and convince our good friends in America to call our young people back from pointless, hegemonic conflict and the attempts to exterminate the people of Gaza by fanatical zionists.

Only then will Britain regain her leadership, regain her influence and regain the trust of her people.

Michael (Petek or otherwise) has started a good game.

Here’s one for you Michael.

Brig. Gen. Avichai Rontzki, IDF Chief Rabbi told settler soldiers that troops who show mercy to enemy will be

i) damned

ii) damned

iii) damned

iv) damned

Another one for Michael:

Rabbi Yitzhak Shapira in his book (to paraphrase) “A Complete Guide to Killing Non-Jews” writes that “babies … block the way to rescue by their presence and do so completely by force. Nevertheless, they may be killed because their presence aids murder. There is justification for killing babies if it is clear that they will grow up to harm us, and in such a situation they may be harmed deliberately, and not only during combat with adults”

More on this enlightenening material at:

http://coteret.com/2009/11/09/settler-rabbi-publishes-the-complete-guide-to-killing-non-jews/

“Wrong, MJ, it was Mohammed Atta. No points there”.

What’s your evidence? (Handy hint: the FBI has now dismissed the story of the passport, miraculously found in the rubble, as a ‘rumour’ – even though it was they who first announced it).

For Jon’s benefit:

The term ‘dhimmi’ comes from ‘dhimma’ which is the pact of protection which certain non-Muslims can enter as a condition for keeping their lives.

The dhimma alone gives unbelievers rights under Islamic law. Unbelievers who have not yet been conquered are called ‘harbis’ – those at war with Islam – and have no rights at all.

Anyone who submites to Islamic rule can become a dhimmi, other than apostates from Islam and idolaters who are Arabs according to the Hanafi school of jurisprudence. The Hanbali, Shafi’i and Maliki schools allow the status of dhimmis only to Christians, Jews and Zoroastrians.

There are lots of things dhimmis are forbidden to do in pain of death. Owning land is one thing, expressing fault with the Koran or Islamic law are others. In short, you can’t uphold both shari’a and international human rights at the same time. To uphold either is to strike down the other.

Rabbi Yitzhak Shapira is an apostate and a blasphemer.

Michael Petek is right. I once attended a training course at London’s Toynbee Hall; this was shortly after the First Glorious Crusade Against Saddam Hussein, and the air around the place was thick with Muslimity. When you went home in the evenings you could hear the muezzin calling from a mosque nearby, trampling blatantly on the rights of those of us who might have preferred the more democratic fare peddled by Christian televangelists. You just couldn’t walk a *step* without getting blown up.

Gog, Magog, the end of days… wait, he left out Shanklin, Isle of Wight… phew, we’re safe for now folks… STAND AWAY FROM THE HANUKKAH !!!

HERE IS A VERY IMPORTANT BOOK REVIEW FOR ANYONE WHO STILL THINKS WE LIVE IN A DEMOCRACY WHERE RULE OF LAW APPLIES~

##########

UNPERSON

A Life Destroyed

Denis Lehane

‘The CIA’s out to get me!’ is every paranoiac’s cry, yet Denis Lehane is no madman. He was an Irish award-winning journalist. Yet, in 1984, he refused to work undercover for the CIA and MI5 who, in revenge, spread rumours that he was insane, an alcoholic and a serial rapist who had tried to murder his two girlfriends. Certified insane in London and later in Dublin, he was put away in an asylum for life. When a television reporter rang Lehane, in his captors’ hearing, to say that CNN were making a major documentary about him, he was hastily released, the programme cancelled and its maker sacked from the network.

Denied any trial, Ireland deported its own citizen, dumping him in London with £5 in his pocket. He was to live on the streets, in cardboard boxes, until he was arrested on a trumped-up charge of terrorism, forbidden to choose any lawyers, tried in his absence and condemned to a psychiatric prison. Here he was tortured, beaten and left disabled, in lifelong pain, with a broken spine, until a hereditary Peer was to spring him free.

Denis Lehane will never recover, yet slowly, painfully and bravely, he has spent long years writing this book. If anyone thought that such events described within could not happen here, read this powerful, horrifying, yet profoundly moving account. Weep, and think again

#######

And I pose my usual question – Where the hell was our so-called human rights industry????

Ambassador Craig Murray, your second paragraph is complete and utter bullshit. I spent three years in law school at the University of Michigan. Previous to that, I spent four years at a university not too far away.

I couldn’t tell you the religion of any of the thousands of people I came in contact with. Just not something you talk about. And it was certainly not something that ever came up in classroom discussion. There would be a definite and palpable impropriety about talking about such things (as I assume there would be at British universities).

I recently heard someone (the husband of one of my friends) engage in “Armageddon” talk, and it caused me actual physical discomfort, as it was one of those dinner party moments when you want to run away and you can’t.

I never had one moment like that in 7 years of Midwestern university. I don’t know anyone who ever had such a moment. This is extremely predictable.

Once again, I’m just not sure that you know how to properly assimilate information. I can’t fathom how you were ever appointed to be the position of ambassador.

Your fantasy world now involves students at the University of Michigan engaged in Armageddon talk. If you knew anything, you’d know how unbelievably stupid that is.

Paul: “It’s a pity the 9/11 truthers have to pop up on Craig’s blog quite so often; it only aids the neo-con trolls.”

Are you claiming to be someone sympathetic to Craig Murray’s positions who ISN’T a 911 Truther?

That would make you quite unique.

Btw, Craig Murray, once again, I wasn’t the one who brought it up.

For my benefit, Michael, perhaps you could address head on the issues put to you, rather than ducking them in order to persuade people – and yourself perhaps – of the awfulness of Muslims? I suspect you favour the most extreme/fundamentalist reading of the Koran, but you wouldn’t appreciate it if I did the same to your Bible now, would you?

I would much appreciate from you a full statement on whether you think the promise of the End Times and the second coming of Christ justifies the stealing of Palestinian land, and all the resultant problems of conflict, poverty and racial/religious tension that flow from the Israeli occupation.

Didn’t we have one of those armagenite ‘Christians ‘ here a little while ago?

I think he was here to defend Israel killing Turks because they are Muslim. Now that their deaths have been forgotten, he has gone some where else to spread his hate.

Jon, the promise of the End Times and the Second Coming of Christ is immaterial as to whether it is justified to steal Palestinian land,or whether it is stolen at all.

You don’t have to be a Christian to hold that Islam is a false religion. You can and must do it if you are a Hindu, a Jew, a pagan, a Confucian or a secular humanist.

Once you accept that, the next step is to judge that the Islamic war of conquest of Palestine, whether by the Arabs or by the Turks, was a crime of aggression of the highest order. All land in Palestine was publicly owned as war booty (Arabic: fay) under Turkish and Arab rule. It was also under public ownership under Roman rule as provincial land.

So there can be no private title unless the act of privatisation was done by the Romans, the Israelis or – in their time – by the British under the Mandate and the Crusaders in the days of the mediaeval Kingdom of Jerusalem.

Seems Craig doesn’t like thinking about spiritual matters, nor other people talking or writing about them unless they are full-on crazies. Only such religious types are worth taking seriously (and who’s denying that). People like Hagee are supported by Zionists. These people, no more than their Zionist partners, are not in any way spiritually Christian.

No true Scotsman, got it.

It’s pretty easy to point out the manifest lackings and appalling inhumanity of just about any religion (apart from Buddhists, maybe), and it’s certainly fun to take the piss out of one religionist who’s shrieking about how evil another might be.

Particularly when that religionist is a Christian – not only is the christianist overlooking the manifest evil and debauchery in his own filthy, blood-soaked religion, but he’s going against his own supposed belief system. “Judge not lest ye be judged”, “cast out the beam in thine own eye before the mote of thy brother’s eye”, etc. etc.. One has to be pretty damned selective in their choice of internally inconsistent passages from the Bible, but why do christianists love the fire and brimestone blood-lust from the O.T. so much, and forget all about the Sermon on the Mount? How come they don’t recognise Christ as a pioneering socialist who hated organised religion?

Here’s one more for our multiple choice game:

Q – Which religion has the most blood on its hands, through slaughter of innocents largely in the name of their religion and/or ‘manifest destiny’ :

a) Christianity

b) Islam

c) Buddhism

d) Hinduism

e) Any other religion

Hint: (a) has more deaths racked up than all the others put together.

Actually I think about spiritual matters a very great deal. It is one of the reasons I can tell violent nutters are wrong.

To all non-US readers here:

Here is an article about the ultimate nightmare: US Christian extremists putting up buildings in illegal West Bank settlements and preparing the legal foundation for a mass influx of their own Gentile settlers as Israeli citizens – with the Likud’s help!

If you thought the settlers from New York or Moscow were vicious racist provocateurs, what do you think these rednecks intend to do to the remaining Palestinians? Many of these maniacs might be direct descendants, like myself, of Tennesseans who emigrated to Mexican Texas with false promises to respect Mexican law while fully intending to grab everything and get Texas into the USA by any means necessary – which led directly to the Mexican-American War.

The Christian Dominionists in America are far more dangerous that you can imagine. They worshipped Bush as a prophet until they recently decided he wasn’t extreme enough. That gave him the margin to steal an election and initiate the unnecessary death of a million Iraqis, so that blood is on their hands. But it has not slaked the thirst of theocrats in America.

Every day here you hear things from their mouths as sickening as anything the Nazis said before 1933. If they were just a bunch of disorganized crazies, as many of you think, it might not matter. Instead, they are the only people in America with a plan to keep white Christians on top of a world that is intent on toppling them, and that makes them attractive to nearly half of America’s desperate, bankrupt, aging white population. The rich Americans see them as useful as Krupp did Hitler. Everyone else is too confused and distracted to devote all mental and economic resources to fight back.

Once their West Bank settlers start a cycle of revenge with the Palestinians, do you think Fox News will depict them as “ex” Americans? Or as an extension of the US who must be rescued by an invasion force?

See the rest of the talk2action.org site, a broad overview of the breathtaking number of projects by Christian extremists to expand their control over the nation’s heartland.

There was a time, post World War 11 when the US saw all religion, inclusive of Islam as a counter force to communism. An aspect of the ideological aims of the US government is its use of religion. Anyone interested in the interface between religion and US foreign policy might care to read this article – http://motherjones.com/politics/2006/01/cold-war-holy-warrior

Sorry, here’s the article link:

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2009/10/19/175932/60

Bollocks, Glenn.

Muhammad and the four Rightly-Guided Caliphs who succeeded him waged many military campaigns – in Mohammed’s case about thirty battles give or take a few. Not only did they conquer North Africa and the Middle East, they also conquered the Persian Empire and devastated the western reaches of India.

All of this before Charles Martel ever laid a glove on them.

Abdel Bari Atwan has written that Islam is the only major world religion which has a theological command to fight embedded within it.

Michael:

So the Palestinians have no legal land rights after centuries because the Arabs did what everyone else did back then?

How did you feel about the Dred Scott decision?

I hope you are an American, so you can get hoist on your own petard when the Latinos take over. But I imagine you’ll back the movement to strip “anchor babies” of their citizenship and create a permanent Palestinian problem of our own to keep our sweatshops profitable.

“It is of course the American Christians who are the most destructive violent religious extremists in the world.”

Who started the most destructive war in the history of mankind?

(1) Mohammed Atta

(2) The Dalai Lama

(3) Adolf Hitler who always wore a cross

(4) Kim Ir Sen

(5) Mao Dzedun

(6) Islam Karimov

Select one answer only.

The depth of ignorance around this topic is breath-taking.

Is no-one here aware that Netanyahu let out of the bag what was already patently clear to most of us.

Christian evangelicals are just useful idiots to the Zionists.

The idea that the Christians in this marriage of convenience with Zionists are the more dangerous of the two is laughable.

Typical of this comment board really-getting progressively worse.

Clueless saps.

For the first time I’ve got to the point where I think Larry is one of the more knowledgeable commenters here.I am in complete agreement with his trenchant critique of Craig Murray.

It has to be said he’s talking utter hogshite.

Michael – you must have entirely overlooked the systematic killing of possibly 100 million native Americans, slaughtered in the name of ‘Manifest Destiny’. Just that one aspect of your filthy religion beats all other jihads and campaigns combined. Going back a bit earlier, the christianist Columbus slaughtered vast, vast numbers of Latin Americans and American Indians, stealing children to be raped as gifts to his masters back in Europe. The Crusades had streets ankle deep in blood, and the monstrous christianists who carried out these atrocities were thoroughly proud of themselves. Doubtless you are proud of them too.

Michael:

Who gives a damn if Christianity lacks a “theological command” to wage war when it has done so ceaselessly for the last 1700 years? It is the Christians who are the best at war who end up as the greatest and most influential Christians. You clearly want American warmongerers to take on that sacred role while clinging to your innocence.

“It is of course the American Christians who are the most destructive violent religious extremists in the world.”

Who killed millions of Iraqi civilians, including children and women just because they were NOT Christians or JEWs?

(1) Chinese

(2) Japanese

(3) American soldiers with biblical verses on their weapons

(4) Cubans

(5) Mexicans

(6) Uzbeks

Select one answer only.

i think to justify any religious claims to any land, it is not enough to hark back only 2000 years, it is not sufficient to compare ancient Egyptian text with that of copycat jewish scholars some thousands of years later.

I think we must look back to the times when Neanderthals moved round Europe,i.e. who’s cudgel swung first.

Does the Magog include those Ashkenazi jews from the Russian/caucasian Hinterland? Will they die in the first wave, or will they be weeded out for hell later on?

Its all hellishly important you know Michael, you cannot just dismiss Homo sapiens movement from the Rift valley into Europe, an important point in the development of the lower Nile area.

Fortunately for us here in Europe was that they were dropping off their unwanted, troublesome cousins on the way, in Palestine, obviously, cause they were a right barmy lot, always fighting with each other instead of hunting for food and with a neck for schmarotzing Talers.#

So I think that your religious claims are a tad invalid, a copycat, down to the words, from other religions, a fakey so to speak.

Jon, I’m afraid you will not get any answers out of fundamentalists who are set in their ways, like Dinosaurs, they have to die out, and we all know how they died, don’t we……

“It is of course the American Christians who are the most destructive violent religious extremists in the world.”

Who dropped atomic bombs on civilian cities in 1945 and killed millions of innocent people?

(1) Chinese

(2) Japanese

(3) Americans

(4) Cubans

(5) Mexicans

(6) Russians

Select one answer only.

OK, so now the Americans fought the Japanese out of Christianity.

You people get more stupid every day.

Larry Crazy,

We are looking for an answer to “Who killed most innocent people based on their religious belief or using religious motivation?”

I’m not sure what disturbs me more, Craig ?” the video, or the idea that you have started watching Christian Loony Tunes…

If it wasn’t for their zeal for violence, private armies, Congress lobby and sheer voting power, the Christian Right would make a world-class comedy act. Let us hope that our governments finally find the courage to refuse to go on any more quasi-Biblical misadventures at their behest.

I’ve forwarded a link to some Ukrainian friends; I don’t believe they’re aware that they have been liwing ?” sorry, living ?” in a Muslim state. If anyone has friends in the area, I believe the Bulgarians likewise need to be enlightened, post haste…

Curiously, the countries depicted on the map roughly correspond to the territory held by the Ottoman Empire, circa 1580. So given what has happened since, some of the prophecy has almost come true ?” except for the bit about living in peace that is.

I think I was made a dhimmy the last time I visited Bahrain. This was immediately after I had chosen death, but spectacularly failed to kill myself in an Infidel exotic rental. Or was it “dummy”…? The Muslim hordes were laughing so hard, I couldn’t tell…

You don’t have to be a theologian to know that Jesus emphatically stated that His Kingdom was NOT of this world.

The Christian Zionist sects that teach re-the Second Coming and Armageddon are by and large financed and thoroughly infiltrated by Zionists and globalists.

Probably most people here haven’t even thought about the source of such deeply dangerous and pernicious teachings. No doubt you guys think it’s all cock-up theory-it just happens by accident.

Think again,dingbats!

http://watch.pair.com/discernment.html

Do some research on British Israelism too while you’re about it.

Come back and know something about the topic before you spout the usual horse-shite that covers this board when the topic is off the tabloid/corporate media radar!

“Who killed most innocent people based on their religious belief or using religious motivation?”

Could very well be Christians; I’m not sure when you want the body counting to begin.

But:

1) I’m not a Christian and

2) Muslims pose far more of a threat now.

When they found those explosives in that car in Times Square, did you suspect the Quakers? Did you even suspect people affiliated with Pat Robertson?

It seems odd that muslims in whose countries most of the world’s energy resources are located are barely represented in the system of global governance at all.

But it does perhaps explain why they and their religion are deemed fair game by people on this comment board and elsewhere.

Most of the Islamophobia here is stirred up by false-flag terrorism and the Zionist corporate media.

If the vitriol spewed forth against muslims were redirected towards the teachings found in Judaism and the Talmud the comments would soon be deleted as being “anti-semitic” or some such other psychological weapon from the Zionist arsenal would be used to screen it out.

Steelback: “Most of the Islamophobia here”

Boo hoo whine whine whine whine boo hoo.

Fuck your dumb religion, and your paranoia.

Larry (not from St Louis)

You really are backwards in coming forwards when you call Craig ‘unable to disseminate information properly’ and laughably call him stupid. I put this down to your blinkered lawyer training that seems to present you permanently in denial.

I learned many years ago about the unrest in Dearborn where about a third of the population are Arab descent Muslim. I know of a small group of students involved in a group which spent at least $67,000 on materials, airfare and lodging for Christian activists to visit Dearborn. Much of the material was produced using University Press facilities. Schools in Dearborn are targeted by Christian bigots armed with racist propaganda. We witness the hate literature and sermons spread by Acts 17 Apologetics working in Flint and targeting the job-seeking young men already harassed by US Army sergeants on the side-walks actively recruiting for the US Army.

We have heard the poisonous venom from the mouths of those including George Saieg who is “commanded as a Christian to deflect the sins of Islam” mingling with teens at Dearborn Festival.

Islam can coexist with Christianity well in Britain without the insults and provocation.

There is a problem to which you have decided to turn your back and cover your eyes unless of course you can turn a situation into litigation and line your pockets like all good lawyers do!

Steelback, here’s your false prophet:

((((:~{>

Yep, that’s a picture of him.

What are you going to do about it?

Also, what’s the penalty under Islam for being an apostate?

Larry from St. Louis:

If our Republican Party is dominated by religious maniacs, and gets us into disastrously mismanaged wars of revenge, and the Democratic Party is too cowardly to get out of them because the President is believed by many Christians to be a secret Moslem terrorist, then I’d say Christians have the blood of a million Iraqis on their hands.

We Christians are rich and powerful and can hide behind a superpower to commit our crimes, so that people like you can refuse to compare the millions we kill to the thousands that are killed by the Moslem non-state actors who resist our empire. Bill Maher was right – it takes far less courage for the average Christian nut in the Air Force to bomb an Afghan village using a robot plane than it does for a Moslem to go on a suicide mission. So in practice American Christians need to be far less fanatical to commit mass murder than Moslems – they can kill all kinds of Moslems by just paying their taxes and casting ballots. So there is no shortage of them.

Larry why generalise?

Is that your style, or are you late for some genital R&R of sorts.

When you throw all Muslims into one crackpot argument after the other, do you actually realise what America has started in Pakistan with its indiscriminate droning?

Fess up on some stats man, you are heavily unpopular there and New York was your wake up call, a reminder so to speak that you cannot press gang everyone into perpetuating the war on terror the way you want it, there will be times when the other cheek gets a good hit.

Just as Bhopal and BP’s disaster have shown how much the US can’t stand it up them, New Yorks failed attack was a warning to beware not to bend over too much.

Is there an argument to keep fundamentalist out of the public service, just as the BNP? Are they a danger to teach kids? or handle sensitive data?

If psychologists are worried about profiling possible future killers in deprived children, then that is clearly distracting from the real evil,i.e. indoctrinating children into fake religious practises at school, turning them into fundamentalists with blinkers.

This indoctrination forms the basis of terrorising religions and it is wrong for us to pretend that we want our children cared for and educated.

By sending them to faith schools and by allowing ever more obscure fundamentalists to run academies with next to no funding, we are handing over our children to religious, self centred nutters with a wish to self destructed, religious nutters who teach our kids to hate other religions by skewing history and facts.

Its enough to put you off your tea wouldn’t you say Larry?

super390, you’re historically illiterate, and I’m worn out trying to explain history to you.

Mark Golding, I’m trying to figure out where you copied and pasted that from. Wouldn’t be the first time you took text and claimed it as your own.

You don’t quite understand that Michigan is a big state. Also, U of M is quite a national university, drawing people from all over. So I’m not sure what a small group of Christians from who-knows-where who might have infested Dearborn have anything to do with students in Ann Arbor.

What is it with the British and their inability to figure out that 305 million people is A LOT OF PEOPLE?

What does this:

http://www.cleveland.com/nation/index.ssf/2009/09/christian_evangelists_target_d.html

have to do with this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_Of_Michigan

And stop it with the plagiarism. We have Google, you know.

Highly remiss of me to forget another glorious achievement of the christianists – the Inquisition, and putting to death millions of women throughout Europe, once Christianity had began it’s evil, blood-soaked march. Heretics, witches, wizzards, and other sundry ungodly types also met miserable deaths at the hands of True Believers in the service of the eternal loving mercy of the baby Jesus.

Much the same happened later in America – burning women to death was a popular hobby among Christians there too. The endless inventiveness and cruelty when it came to torture practices was surely divinely inspired. Tomas de Torquemada was – and is – a role model for christianists everywhere.

“putting to death millions of women throughout Europe”

Jesus Fucking Christ, can you get anything right? You just pull this shit out of your ass, don’t you, you fucking moron.

By the way Larry,

You ought to read Michael Scheuer’s book “Imperial Hubris”. Scheuer is a far-right Reaganite nut, but he is as knowledgeable as any gringo about bin Laden’s movement and motivations. He said that bin Laden acted out of a genuine belief that the West was destroying Islam, which for him is the destruction of his people. Also that bin Laden believed all he could do was act to inspire all Moslems to do their duty in their own lands to resist this conquest, which would take generations.

However, other comments OBL has made about the price of oil and the belief that the US would meet the fate of the USSR indicate that he was counting on his relatively small actions to provoke the US into disastrous wars that would cripple it. Well, we spent a trillion $ on the wars, and we can’t pay it back. America’s geographically strategic ally Turkey has seen its people reverse their genuine love of America, a real problem because Bush relied on Central Asian oil flowing thru Turkey to prevent Russia from using oil to blackmail the EU. Disgusted by Bush, Saudi Arabia has pursued a foreign policy more independent of the US, which was OBL’s specific dispute with the Saud monarchy. And Saudi is friendly to Turkey and to the main democratic opposition leader in nuclear Pakistan. Now democratic Turkey is becoming a beacon of hope for Arabs trapped under US-backed, Israeli-mandated tyrants. Iraq, meanwhile, opens up more and more fields to Chinese oil companies.

If OBL is really still alive, he can’t be dissatisfied with the size of his contribution.

Michael,

Well gee, you ought to tell the University of Michigan that I’m historically illiterate so that it can demand my Master’s Degree in World Politics back.

But you’ll probably be cheering for Sarah Palin for 2012 – from a safe overseas distance – so how much does historical literacy count in the most militarily powerful office on earth?

Larry (not from St Louis)

Crystal clear now Larry – the lawyer approach – never attack the meat of an argument if your armoury is weak; instead find some other excuse to weaken your opponents argument – anything will do eh? bad breath – fornication – abuse – ?

You are a fraud Larry, weak, childish and lacking stamina to present a half decent argument – go home – research David Swanson and expand your small world.

Interesting essay here:

http://nthposition.com/dethinyefyreadefence.php

quote:

It is here in this world without a personal god who can be shared that we find ourselves trapped in the nature of shared opinion. Each of is liable to be captured and brain-washed in mass hysteria by mobs enthused with religious doctrines, mobs that relieve us of the need to reflect on any question – political, social, or personal. As members of congregations and audiences we happily give up our freedom of thought for the comfort of conformity, becoming puppets controlled by ventriloquists.

/quote

…and the rapture was a Scottish idea, oddly enough.

http://www.apostasynow.com/topics/trib/pretrib08.html

Craig, what the hell has you watching the CBN?!? I have never seen such breathtakingly muddled tosh before.

Who the fuck is that illiterate Pat? He can’t write, can’t spell, points to Ukraine, Romania and Bulgaria and calls them “in the Caucasian region” and “predominately muslim”. For fuck’s sake, the map still has Yugoslavia on it. He needs to take his LaTTeR DayS (sic) and shove ‘em…

Eye opening, scary stuff. Thanks for the heads-up.

“Eye opening, scary stuff.”

No, this guy’s been around for years, occasionally popping up in the mainstream when a disaster happens to identify God or the devil as a culprit.

He was hawking a power shake recently. He’s irrelevant.

Mark Golding: what’s the meat of your argument? You identified a handful of Christian loons who traveled to Michigan from California to proselytize to Muslims. Rather sickening, but it really has nothing to do with the University of Michigan.

Also, you once again engaged in plagiarism – you used the thoughts of another as your own.

I’m puzzled why anyone is silly enough to keep addressing our resident tea-bagging True Believer troll, Loony from St. Larry. What the heck is up with you fools? Are you expecting some sort of admission from the troll, just because you’re rubbing facts in his face? Jesus! I’m granting the tea-bagger one reply a month, and frankly that’s too generous. Even talking about the foul-mouthed neo-con gives more credit than the troll deserves.

“You don’t have to be a Christian to hold that Islam is a false religion.”

If you aren’t a Christian then you necessarily see Christianity as a false religion. What’s your point?

amk: The guy is a typical christianist whack-job. He’s so blind to the manifest faults of his own ghastly, fear and hate-filled religion, that he didn’t realise what an own goal he was starting with his stupid multiple-choice game about Islam.

People as crazed about their religion as that are deaf, blind and stupid when it comes to self examination. They float on religious fervour, believing their self induced high to be the one true calling of the Almighty Himself, ignoring the fact that not only do all other religious nutballs from every other faith get exactly the same rush, but so did every murderous practitioner through the ages supposedly acting on behalf of the exact same God.

You can’t reason with them, but at least it’s fun to point out their lunacy. Nonetheless, their murderous brand of fanaticism is no laughing matter.

I feel an attack on Iran might come within the next few months, July, August. If it happens there should be riots in the streets. There is simply no evidence of any wrong doing. Unless you prefer to listen to liars and war criminals.

Larry in your small mind you seem to confuse plagiarism with research. The phrase “Don’t pirate my editions; do plunder my visions” is well worth taking on-board instead of firing from the hip which is your failing Larry.

My argument is the corruption of ecumenism in many American University Christian outreaches including the Michigan Uni. Too many times on the basis of my knowledge we learn of speeches and lectures by evangelist missionaries promoting the virtues of a denomination while warning and sometimes frightening with the wrath of their god that non-believers and members of another faith or belief will face the fire of Armageddon or the clash is inevitable.

Too many times we have learned that young impressionable students are drawn or seduced into false doctrines within so-called Christian ‘churches’ where the underlying current is aimed at a ‘new world order’ to fight evil.

This can be examined and witnessed in statements like, “Texas evangelical and leader of that hybrid known as the Christian Zionist movement, led a rally of 3,500 evangelicals at a Washington hotel, where he called Israel’s attacks on Lebanon a “miracle of god” and proof that Israel was doing god’s work or this one, “Bush sent Hagee a message of praise for:

“Spreading the hope of god’s love and the universal gift of freedom.”

Rubbish, sickening, dangerous and leaving a swath of destruction, murders, maimed, orphaned and traumatised children and women (Iraq).

So much for the Blair and Bush message from their god – the carnage is proof to those that are allured and enamoured by religious fear.

Glenn, I fully agree!

Mark, what the fuck is “the Michigan Uni.”?

Glenn, speaking of which, one wonders what on earth or in heaven has happened to Rapturous Michael Petek? Was it just Israel he was on here for? Hmn.

Incidentally, Larry’s comments juxtaposed with the name of Jesus are in really bad taste. There’s no need to be gratuitously rude. Abe Rene pulled me up for that when I quoted from a Billy Connolly joke, but Larry’s comments are not being made in any kind of spirit of humour, there just there to inflame and provoke and above all, to deflect criticism of the obvious.

Quote of the day by Obama on sacking Mc. Crystal, words which might become an omen.

‘war is bigger than any general, private or president’

Has he signed himself off? Is it a prophecy, a sign to those who pull his strings to get the scissors out?

Pat Robertson has indeed been preaching his hate sermons for decades, he also has a string of immorality in himself, as his flock well knows, still,

his immoral life of ‘do as i say not as I do’ does not matter much to the religious junkies, who need their weekend redemption fix, he knows well to feed their empty souls and obese unhappy lifestyles by playing on their guilt.

With hellfire and damnation he fishes the dollars out of their pocket for his despicable moronic church, he’s the clever imbacile, all others pay for his decrepid absolution.

and…

So many Americans have been let down by the promise of ‘change’ – so much is the culture I have described embedded, the reasoning I have put forward, given false hope, many in America believed that a messiah had arrived from nowhere to put America on the right path.

Yetall we witness is the ‘emperor of drones’ and many more young American lives lost in a lost ‘war’ – the lessons of Iraq failed to plagiarise the souls of America’s new leaders so her demise is assured.

and..

if that’s all you can say Larry – I’m out of here!

Suhayl: I’m afraid I might have missed that Billy Connolly joke, would you mind repeating it, so that I can avoid offending anyone by mentioning such a joke myself? And you’re right – I should not use the name of a good and decent socialist as an expletive, I wouldn’t say “Marx!”, so should not say “Jesus!” any more readily. My loose-tongued comment only struck me when I considered using “Marx” and St. Loony’s quotes in close proximation.

It’s sad that the holy-roller Petek has not stayed around – perhaps he was raptured up, after all we can only expect to miss 144,000 people worldwide. It might not raise enough attention for widespread comment.

But trolls are for what trolls do – disrupting useful discussions and annoying/insulting participants into leaving. A time honoured practice. But when they are unsophisticated, we can see very easily what they fear to be discussed.

I do feel sorry for St. Loony, because – as he’s mentioned – he clearly does’t like the people that he spends time with. Imagine having to be in detestable company for so long? I’d like to say I hope he’s well paid for it, but given his obvious lacking, I very much doubt my good wishes would be realised.

Israeli Ambassador Michael Oren gives fuel to 911 conspiracies;

http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2010/06/23/israeli-rogue-operations-spying/#more-7696

Oh no, Glenn, I wasn’t in any way getting at you. As I say, I say and write all kinds of stuff. But I sense that when Larry uses langauge, he uses it an attack weapon rather than a means of communication. It can be used thus, it’s one of language’s potential functions. But it ilustrates a paucity. nonethless, I am gratefful Larry, that at least you did finally deign to answer my question. Thanks.

Ah, my typos – it’s late, it’s late… as the White Rabbit said. Time to wind up and go off to the Land of Nod. I bid everyone a very good night.

Mark Golding, if you’re citing a source, you should put quotes around it, and attach some form of attribution. You should not attempt to pass off other people’s words as your own.

You’ve done this before.

What a load of fucking garbage!

Who do you think make up the roving death squads in Iraq who pick off either Sunnis or Shias or who attack groups of Ashura pilgrims with suicide bombings? I suppose these would be the American Christians or the Zionists or the Israelis, would they? Or is there some kind of tortured reasoning which makes Muslims incapable of agency and that they are “driven to it” by America’s support for Israel?

I suppose the murder and mayhem in Kashmir is the fault of the Zionists or America’s support for Israel and the violence in East Turkestan is a result of America’s support for Israel or that in Chechnya or the Philippines or the south of Thailand, the south of Sudan or in Nigeria. All of these cases of violence are all the fault of happy-clappy Christian fundamentalists in the US and their evil little satanic entity Israel?

Is that right?

Jesus Christ! If your self-satisfied unctuous smirking were any wider the top of your head would fall off.

Hot-dang, Angry! You’re living up to your name tonight, eh? Could you please keep it going though – you’re a bit late on this waning thread, and it’s cooled off. We need a _serious_ Mr. Angry to get the crowd going again.

Everyone got bored with the St. Loony thing – finally! – and despite our best advice, you’ve made yourself his side-kick. So what would St. Loony’s better half have to say about murderous kristianist religiosity while awaiting his glass to be refreshed, Mr. Angry?

Loopy from St Larry in his wisdom spaketh thusly:

“Mark Golding, You should not attempt to pass off other people’s words as your own.”

Holy shit. That’ll be an end to all those US and Israeli false flag ops then, eh.

Methinks you ain’t cleared this one with HQ.

You’re so very losing it Larry, really like.

Oh, I see now that Michael Petek has never left us but remains in carnal form as ‘Michael’.

Hallo Mikhail, ‘ow are ya, me boy?

Ah, I get it now. Any mention of the word, ‘Israel’ and you re-emerge from the primeval soup. ‘Instant Creationism’, one might call it.

One, two, three…

Watch out for the Ajuj-Majuj. They’re out to get ya! They’re three-foot tall and speak in sideways Syriac.

Suhayl Saadi,sorry for troubling you, but could you tell me when did Larry from St. Louis,angrysoba first turn up on this blog?. I just have this feeling they know each other?. I think this blog is under a kind of organised yet subtle verbal attack. Its effect is starting to destroy the blog.

Anonymous above, at 24/6 09:38 – St. Angry-Loony showed up just before xmas last year, as I recall, telling us what a bunch of useless crazies we were, and have been resolutely telling us the same every single day since.

“and have been resolutely telling us the same every single day since”

But never produce the evidence.

This is why “Larry from St Louis” (sometimes in Seattle, mostly in CA) chose to write (bad) “satire”. It’s much easier to do than produce genuine arguments — on any topic. Good satire, on the other hand, is well informed.

“have you concluded that I am the proprietor of that website because my name is Larry and I was in the Seattle area earlier this month on vacation?”

(from an earlier thread)

This website?

http://blamebush.typepad.com/

No. But you are, and it’s just as childish as what you produce here. You’re a juvenile, Larry, trying to mix with the adults. Btw, proprietor is a little overblown for the person behind a typepad blog.

Larry from St Louis, having checked something that Suhayl wrote, I find your juxtaposition of the man from Nazareth and swear words, offensive. Just what good does this misuse of freedom of speech serve? Alastair Cooke, the great broadcaster wrote in his book on America, “Liberty is the luxury of self-discipline.” He went on to say that America’s future could depend on the balance in its civilisation between creative and degenerative impulses. Just how do you wish to influence this vital balance that could determine its fate, whether survival or fall?

Blasphemy has always seemed to me reckless. We don’t live forever, and when we cross the Big River, as I see it, we face in some form a final examination. A good reason to be careful that what we say exerts a good, not bad influence, is that we may be held to account for it.

glenn, thank you.

“telling us what a bunch of useless crazies we were”

I think they are right. Most of you seem to have fallen over each other to let them accomplice their aims in almost destroying one of the best blogs on the web.

I don’t see any “almost destroying”. Anyone reading can see who is contributing and who is flinging sand and pebbles. If they can’t, they probably don’t understand this blog anyway.

The so called ‘death squads’ were US trained government police as reported by the Washington Post, “the Baghdad morgue reports that dozens of bodies arrive at the same time on a weekly basis, including scores of corpses with wrists bound by police handcuffs.”

At the time Rumsfeld pretended to not even know about them, calling the reports, “unverified comments” in a press conference.

The bastards wanted ‘civil war’ a ‘divide and conquer’ strategy, Angrysoba, that murdered families already stricken by malnutrition, phosphorus burns and unexploded cluster bombs dangling in kids play-grounds. So before you ‘kick-off’ why not do some research?

Luckily Rumsfeld’s ignorance did not prevail and America was forced into a more humane strategy of appeasing the Badr Organisation.

June 24, 2010 12:29 PM

Yes, you are partially right in what you say, but having to weigh through so many posts of “sand and pebbles” to find “who is contributing” is becoming overwhelming.

Mark: Note that these bodies, bearing the marks of torture and wearing the handcuffs, started showing up in very short order after John “Death-Squad” Negroponte arrived in Iraq, to impose the astonishingly frankly termed “Salvidor solution”. That’s what this man does – sets up death squads, and makes no secret of it. The handcuffs are left in place as a calling-card, so others will get the message.

This stinking mass murderer started his career by throwing villagers out of helicopters in Vietnam, whether they knew anything or not, to intimidate their fellow passengers into talking.

Instead of being thrown in jail as a war criminal, he went on to head up death squads all around central America as Reagan, then Bush the elder’s programme of eliminating democratic but left-leaning governments. If there was opposition to a military-led CIA stooge running the country, “Death-squad” John was there to make sure sat down and shut up, if you knew what was good for you.

One might note that throughout the history of Christianity there is no notion at all of the Jews getting together and re-forming a state as somehow an aspect of what Christianity is about.

In recent years there has been a religion invented in the USA which has almost no connection with Christianity as traditionally and historically understood, apart from calling itself “Christian” and picking those bits of texts which can be twisted to fit their ideology. The religion seems to be essentially a form of USA nationalism. As such, any true Christian should regard it as at best mistaken, at worst Satanic. That last word needs to be viewed in terms of the presentation of “Satan” in the New Testament as the tempter who tries to encourage Jesus to turn away from the hard path and follow an easy one of wealth and power. As such, I use the word not to be hyperbolic but conscious also that this USA-nationalism religion is also tied up the “theology of prosperity”, a movement which is the opposite all that true Christianity is for.

The greatest victims of all this have been the true Christians of the Middle East, forced out by all sides. Iraqi Christians form the major part of refugees fleeing Iraq. There was once a substantial Christian Palestinian population, it is now down to 2% of Palestinians. These people are Catholic or various Eastern Churches, keeping alive the Christian inheritance of the pre-Muslim Middle East, in some cases still using the actual language spoken by Jesus as their liturgical language.

I would urge anyone not to let these weird USA-nationalists get away with their description of themselves as “Christian”.

“having to weigh through so many posts of “sand and pebbles” to find “who is contributing” is becoming overwhelming”

I agree, it’s offputting. It raises the threshold, makes it harder to talk sense and to see sensible responses; more noise, less signal. It has identifiably driven people away, and there’s no way of counting those who have taken a look and decided it wasn’t even worth getting involved.

A question for the US patriot Loony Larry from St. Louis ;

Regarding just the case of the Israeli super-spy Johnathan Pollard,, is your irrational Islamophobia so extreme that you still continue to support a country that ;

a)was spying against the US.

b)was passing intelligence onto an enemy of the US.

c)had ensured that the enemy would win in any war with the West.

d)whose spying had directly lead to death of 100 CIA agents.

No need to answer as you have already demonstrated that yes, anybody can do absolutely anything to absolutely anybody, just as long as they are also killing Muslims as well.

(BTW angrysoda, I believe that your self-deluding & self-righteousness rant, is a piss-poor attempt at the diversionary debating tactic, commonly known as “whataboutery”)

“The so called ‘death squads’ were US trained government police as reported by the Washington Post, “the Baghdad morgue reports that dozens of bodies arrive at the same time on a weekly basis, including scores of corpses with wrists bound by police handcuffs.”"

The police were massacring Sunnis because most of them were Shia.

You’re not telling me…oh you are… that John Negroponte flipped a switch in their brains that turned them into killing machines. That they were indoctrinated by the Zionists to do this?

No, they killed them because they were killing heretics from the Muslim religion who had also been their oppressors under Saddam Hussein. If anyone in the US military were knowingly involved in encouraging this slaughter then they should be prosecuted but it was nothing to do with the Christian fundamentalists trying to wipe out the Muslims (this is crazy talk).

Now Sunni and Shia are at each others’s throats all over the place. If you go to school in Saudi Arabia you’ll learn that the Shia are essentially Jews (and we all know how serious an accusation that is).

Of course, many of you will look at a man throwing acid in the face of an unveiled woman and say, “Ah! That’s America’s fault for backing Israel and they back Israel because they believe in the rapture!”.

Pretty much any old crap to avoid the elephant in the room.

“BTW angrysoda, I believe that your self-deluding & self-righteousness rant, is a piss-poor attempt at the diversionary debating tactic, commonly known as “whataboutery”"

No, bringing up Jonathan Pollard is an example of that.

What Craig Murray said is this:

“It is of course the American christians who are the most destructive violent religious extremists in the world.”

I was refuting it. So it isn’t “whataboutery” at all. “Whataboutery” is when someone says, for example, “Oh fuck me! I heard there was a suicide bombing against Ashura pilgrims in Kabala” and then some stupid twat says, “Ah! Well think about the things that Israel does!”

Angrysoba

You’re Australian.

Thanks Glenn for making the detail more comprehensive.

The ‘elephant in the room’ is in fact the ’800lb gorilla’ that smashed it’s way into Iraq”

Angrysoba,

Have you ever used the handle “Mandible Claw”?

“You’re Australian.”

You’re Anonymous.

“Angrysoba,

Have you ever used the handle “Mandible Claw”?”

And the punchline is…?

Have you ever used the handle “Mandible Claw”?”

And the punchline is…?

So you have, then. Thanks.

“So you have, then. Thanks.”

Have we just entered the Twilight Zone?

What in gibbering fuck are you gibbering about?

Rather than regarding this issue as a contest between extreme Christianity and Judaism on the one hand versus extreme Islam on the other, isn’t it obvious that the problem is the extremism itself?

Whenever people start thinking along the lines of “My idea of ultimate reality (in this case God) is absolutely correct and everyone who disagrees one scintilla is going to hell, so who cares if they die, and by the way the end of the world is next week”, it is time to start worrying.

If these same people are strongly influencing the foreign policy of a country with the military and diplomatic power of the US, which we would hope would be based on rational self-interest of some sort, it is time to start worrying even more.

As for those three monotheistic religions, they have all shown varying degrees of tolerance and intolerance in the past: what’s the point of arguing which is better or worse?

One might add that before the atheists amongst us get too smug it should be noted that the dogmatic atheism of Mao and Stalin (just another variation on ideological intolerance) surely takes the prize for millions dead through ideologically-based murder, even beating Hitler’s insane master-race delusions.

He’s not anonymous, I am.

“You’re Australian.”

“You’re Anonymous.”

“Angrysoba,

Have you ever used the handle “Mandible Claw”?”

“And the punchline is…?”

Posted by: angrysoba

My my my … Strange how you have an aversion to simple questions. Are you ashamed to be Australian, just as Larry is ashamed to take ownership of his blog?

“My my my … Strange how you have an aversion to simple questions. Are you ashamed to be Australian, just as Larry is ashamed to take ownership of his blog? ”

That’s right MacIntyre. Now please show me what I am supposed to be responsible for.

I don’t recall using the word responsible. I was alluding to you ducking simple questions.

“I was alluding to you ducking simple questions.”

Didn’t you do the same?

I don’t recall anyone suggesting my nationality, or any other handle I might have used online. I recall being asked if I used a raincoat. As to my whereabouts, that’s my affair.

I understand your point Merlin which is/was the thrust of my previous posts.

We understand extremism exists wherever we look; torture by intelligence agencies, in politics (the BNP comes to mind), the media in propaganda (the falling statue of Saddam), the military (false-flag) or even in the play-ground where argument can turn to name-calling, intimidation and bullying.

The danger as I have suggested and in which Craig sowed the seed is subversion or eroding the basis of belief in the status quo or setting people against each other as discussed here.

Even attempts to subvert Craig’s blog must be recognised and understood at the fundamental level as destructive.

Political subversion is rife and I believe even the ‘war on terror’ is subversion invoking cultural hegemony and all the evils accompanied we have witnessed past ten years or more.

So if fact Craig’s post here is a stark warning, an important message and one that we Brits seem strangely impervious to subversion and unaffected to a degree.

This cultural strength is our blessing and all of us should strive to identify it and pass on our insight and reasoning to educate and enlighten those that have succumbed.

Total posts = 130

Post count:

13 Larry from St. Louis

12

10 glenn

8 angrysoba

8 Mark Golding – Children of Iraq

7 super390

6 Michael

6 Jon

5 McIntyre

4 Suhayl Saadi

3 Nomad

2 somebody

2 ingo

2 Richard Robinson

2 Philip

2 Paul

2 Neil Barker

2 Monty

2 Mac

2 MJ

2 Andrew

2 Abe Rene

1 mike cobley

1 johnf

1 brian powell

1 arsalan

1 amk

1 Vronsky

1 Steelback

1 Sean

1 Roderick Russell

1 Paul Johnston

1 NomadUK

1 Mr M

1 Merlin

1 Matthew Huntbach

1 Mat

1 Losing Larry of St Foodstamps

1 JimmyGiro

1 Ishmael

1 Ingo

1 Freeborn

1 Exclusive

1 Daniel Hoffmann-Gill

1 Craig

1 Courtenay Barnett

1 Clark

1 Apostate

Jonathan Pollard was me yielding to the temptation to engage self-declared super US patriot & self-evident super Islamophobe Larry; yes I took his usual “Islam is Evil” derailing bait, but since he appears not to be appearing, perhaps you might like to reply, afterall you do tend to share the same intolerance of all things Islamic.

Your initial post was to go on a virtual World tour via Chechnya , Philippines, etc, etc Classic “whataboutery”, as you set-up a straw-man argument in ascribing what Mark Golding had stated about the Iraqi Shia Death Squads, as applying to your world tour of hotspots. If you actually want to refute what CM said about American Christians, then you better address that specific issue.

If I had the time or inclination, I’m sure that even those cases that you sighted, if explored properly, there’s probably a lot of underlying Western involvement; a bit like the recent “spike” in (darn Muslims killing Muslims again) PKK attacks:

http://alethonews.wordpress.com/2010/06/22/israel-escalating-terror-in-turkey/

(Also can you elaborate a bit about your “elephant in the room”)

“(Also can you elaborate a bit about your “elephant in the room”)”

Well, there must be _some_ explanation for this huge heap of shit we’re looking at ?

Michael [Petek], it is entirely false to suggest that:

“the promise of the End Times and the Second Coming of Christ is immaterial as to whether it is justified to steal Palestinian land”

Rapturists believe that Christ will come again if Israel is “returned to God’s chosen people”, and in their mind they’ve decided that the Jews are God’s chosen people, from what it says in the Old Testament. Hence, they believe that the Palestinians must be driven out of the region before Armageddon can happen. In believing this, they then oppose the Palestinians on principle, just as they support Israel reflexively. I don’t think I have to explain this to you, and wonder if in your first comment you’re being disingenuous? Indeed, I think you are one of those people, and it is for this frankly bizarre reasoning that you hold to your Israel-can-do-no-wrong position.

“or whether it [Palestine] is stolen at all”.

Hmm. The state of Israel created was slap-bang in the middle of Palestine, where people were actually living already. Sure, all countries are illegitimate, since they’ve all been stolen at some point, and had imperial blood spilled upon them. But if a population is displaced by another violently, as is the case here, then its legitimacy must be called into question, +in a secular way+. You seem to want to go back several centuries, or millenia, in a desparate attempt to delegitimise the Palestinian people’s wish for a safe homeland.

“You don’t have to be a Christian to hold that Islam is a false religion”.

This is a question that begs the point you wish to prove. I am not a Muslim, but it might be a good religion to follow for Muslims. I wish for them to follow it if that is really what they wish to do. But I don’t regard any of the major religions are more valid than another, and neither should you. I think they can all be valid, in their way, and each God is largely a set of cultural preferences overlaid onto a World Creator and Omnipotent Protector figure. But we have covered this before, and you insist on sticking to your position even though (a) you can’t prove it, (b) you won’t prove it, and (c) you ignore calls to prove it or desist.

In any case, you have again shown your true colours. You dislike the Palestinians because they are Muslim, and then try to justify your racism with your cries of “false religion”. If the Palestinians were to convert to your preferred Christian/Jewish sect, would you be in favour of returning to them the land marked out by the 1967 borders, and removing all the Israeli settlers in the occupied territories? Another question for you to ignore!

A reason for everything.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19873

This one’s for Larry,the shills and all the brain-dead dingbats here who ask shallow questions and only ever get shallow answers.

Hurry it won’t be up for long!

Patrick Grimm in great form:Boy Were You Ever Wrong!

http://patrickgrimm/typepad.com/zionist-watch/

on topic from Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer:

“The Hebrew Scriptures, the Christian New Testament, and the Quran contain stories urging compassionate living, social justice, and ethical conduct. The collective weight of all passages in these texts that advocate ethical behavior or present evidence of a loving, compassionate God cannot, however, overcome the violent images and expectations of God that overwhelm these ‘sacred’ texts. God’s violence or human violence justified in service to God is sometimes understood to be the principal means to justice in, or at the end of, history. At other times, ethical conduct is urged under the threat of God’s punishing violence. God’s violence is at times so pervasive, unpredictable, vindictive, or destructive that it reflexts a deep and troubling pathology. In such cases, we can say that if human beings acted as God does or as God tells them to act, they would be rightfully be considered certifiably insane.”

From Is Religion Killing Us?

Violence in the Bible and the Quran

Let’s get to it, Jon.

(1) Does God exist or not?

(2) Is Mohammed a true messenger of God or not?

You can’t justly wage jihad unless you can truthfully and without error answer ‘yes’ to both questions.

Michael if someone of any religion including Atheists read three or more of your post they might end up justifying Jihad against you.

Someone doesn’t need to be a Muslim to recognise you as the Nazi you are.

If we would do a vote on it here, I can tell you exactly how it would go.

You will say you are not a Nazi.

Everyone else but two will say you are.

Anry and Larry will remain silent on the issue because they are really embarresed by you.

You do not do Zionism any favours with your support.

So I am really glad you are on their side and not ours.

Thanks Michael for engaging – only partially mind you – but I am not sure what you are setting out to show. My answers to your questions, in case you want a full answer from me personally:

1. Maybe. I don’t have any evidence that he (or she) does, but since one can’t prove a negative, I can’t prove that he/she does not exist either.

2. I don’t strongly believe that he is, but I am aware that some people believe this. Such a belief is culturally relevant for them, just as other people prefer Moses or Jesus as the messenger.

No comments from you, though on:

1. The fact that a belief in the Rapture is directly connected to the Israel/Palestine question, and that you were not being helpful to deliberately state otherwise;

2. Whether you personally believe in the Rapture, Armageddon, Revelations etc and the returning of Israel to “God’s chosen people” [sic] being a prophesied precursor to Christ’s coming again;

3. Whilst you are at it, comment on whether you think that it is possible that a belief in (2) can (and does) engender a biased Israel can-do-no-wrong worldview in some people, and that the view is focussed sometimes on hastening the end of the world and ignores human rights entirely

4. Why you are determined that no part of Palestine should belong to the Palestinians;

5. Why you think that your sect is a true religion, and why you keep asserting that Islam is a false one, even though you cannot through secular means prove either assertion to anyone;

6. Whether, if the Palestinians were to convert to an acceptable religion, you would be in favour of returning to them the land marked out by the 1967 borders, and removing all the Israeli settlers in the occupied territories?

I am generally quite open about answering things, I think, so I wonder if you could have a genuine attempt at those questions. I hope I would be willing to concede on any point if you show me to be wrong, and conversely I hope that you are prepared to give some ground too?

Everyone who disagrees with you is a Nazi, isn’t he Arsehole?

If I’m wrong I’ll eat my German helmet.

Agreed, Jon, they can believe what they like. But if someone wages jihad against me and claims Koranic justification for doing so, then the truth claims for the Koran are something I must judge of. If a religion or world view other tham Islam is true, therefore Islam is false, then I’m objectively justified in impaling him Vlad-style.

You’re very silly (par for the course around here) if you believe that Americans who support the right of Israel to exist do so only because they believe in some supernatural rapture.

You are surrounded by people in Britain who believe that Israel has a right to exist, yet don’t believe in the rapture.

I know very few people in the States who believe in any rapture. I’ve encountered it a few times in my life, and I’ve always taken note that I’m talking to someone who needs to get real.

@Michael, How about if somebody causes others to wage jihad against you and claims Talmud Torah justifications for doing so ? Will you also be objectively justified in impaling the Zionist Vlad-style ?

Answer to Mac:

Yes. Because if Christianity is true, then he’s a blood-traitor to his King.

If The Talmud-Torah is false, then same reasons as before.

Michael are these people anything to do with you and yours?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e1a_1173546939

Do you agree about she she said should happen to Harry?

“I know very few people in the States who believe in any rapture.”

Posted by: Larry from La-La-Land

As you mentioned yourself, the USA is a very big place. The percentage of 300 million that you know personally is obviously very very small.

Ah, Mr Petek, you are still here after all. Well, jings ma boab!

And that, Michael, is an exhortation to worldwide jihad as enunciated by Ashtaroth the Demon, naked Prince of Hell on the 99th day of the 13th Sabbat of the Witches of the Holy Land of the South Saxons, as ventroliquised by Wild Nancy of the Ayrshire kirk.

Just thought you’d like to know.

Anonymous blogger at… 0938am, sorry, I didn’t have web access earlier today. Nonetheless, I think Richard Robinson answered your very pertinent question very well.

Yes, I do think that it is obvious that this website has been the subject of targeted attacks of various sorts. We saw this very clearly en masse during Israel’s murderous attack on the charity ship.

But I agree that there have been more subtle and/or more relentless weaponry directed against it. The major aim of much of this appears to be – as our host surmised several months ago – to discredit it, to associate it lexicographically as well as thematically with crackpot notions and to keep repeating the same, linking phrases again and again, as well as to demoralise, corral and insult.

While Michael P, for example, seems to adhere like sticky-backed plastic to the notion of ‘The Rapture’ (one senses an Eisenstein triptych but one fashioned in Disneyland), our man in cyberspace and champion bird-watcher, Larry Louis the Beatific, the Caliph of Seattle and First Lord of the District of Columbia, bears a closer resemblance to a raptor.

This is only to be expected. It’s part of the medium, it’s a fact of the interface of the political website of a dissident. And Craig is a dissident.

I fully expect this post to be attacked and also mocked very quickly – it generally happens when someone critiques the modus operandum of those likely to be involved. Wait for it…. here it comes.

The secret, of course, is to continually remind one another of that which is politically important, to relish linguistic combat and above all, to remember to laugh.

Steelback – out of curiosity, I followed your link to Patrick Grimm’s blog. I confess I normally skip your input, since I think you use several pseudonyms here, and I don’t think there is any need for that cloak-and-dagger approach.

It seems that Grimm (whose writing style itself is not unpleasant) has identified that money men are ruining the world, and that would find much agreement across the political spectrum. But unfortunately he has then identified that those money men are predominantly Jewish, which is open to doubt, and that criminality is a predominantly Jewish failing – which is plainly racist and wrong.

Here is Grimm defending himself against the charge of “hating all Jews”:

> When a corporate raider or a white collar criminal of any kind is

> arrested, nine times out of ten that individual will be a Jew. When a

> hard-core pornographer is brought forth on charges, nine times out of ten

> he will be a Jew. You know it and I know it. Yet you probably would prefer

> I call such a person a “Zionist” even when this label may or may not be

> accurate.

Do you +actually+ believe this stuff? Even aside from the overt racism, how would you explain that selfishness, greed, criminality are specifically Jewish traits – genetics? Negative cultural influences?

I am often intrigued at alternative political theories, but yours does appear to be quite barking mad, and an elaborate cover for racist hatred. Are you an agent provocateur?

@Michael, So it seems that you are admitting that you consider that all Jews (Zionists or not) are “blood-traitors” to Christ, and that Judaism is false; so this with the fact that many analysts (as well as common-sense, as well as being self-declared), acknowledge that the primacy cause of a lot of “Islamic terrorism” is “blow-back” iro Western support for Zionists crimes against Arabs, should mean that by your own logic & justification that you should be just as ready to “impale” Jews as you are Muslims, but strangely enough it seems that your attention seems to be exclusively against Muslims, whilst being supportive of whatever the Zionist State of Israel does; please explain this apparent irrationality.

Michael, if you are a fan of logical propositions, you’ve failed what was meant to be a proof:

“If a religion or world view other tham Islam is true, therefore Islam is false, then I’m objectively justified in impaling him Vlad-style.”

Proposition: If a non-Islamic religion is true

Conclusion: then Islam is false

Comment: You would also have to assert the common belief that all religions are contradictory, and accordingly either none of them are true, or only one is. I don’t personally believe that, as I think they could all be true manifestations of the same thing, but that’s another story.

Your additional logical error is that because the proposition is a question, and not a proven statement, the conclusion cannot be reached anyway.

Proposition: if Islam is false

Conclusion: then I’m objectively justified in impaling him Vlad-style.

Utter crap. There is no logical proof here, just a re-statement of your racism. If I said that the surface of the sun is cold, that would clearly be a false statement – but it would not give you any justification to kill me.

So, three logical errors in a short statement AND you have failed to answer my points put to you above. I will have to reduce the amount of time I spend on you, if you persistently refuse to respond to any criticisms.

Larry states that he has “encountered” rapture a few times in his life. Well, lucky him! Such lemon squeeze orgasms do not seem to have made him particularly happy, though, do they? Perhaps it was the wrong kind of acid. Actually, as I said before, I find Michael Petek extremely entertaining. Wacko as Beelzebub, of course, but hilarious in a sort of Ivor Biggun way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LD_fEt9ACc

Larry:

“You’re very silly if you believe that Americans who support the right of Israel to exist do so only because they believe in some supernatural rapture.”

I don’t think people are suggesting that. What I was saying to Michael is that some people believe in the Rapture first and foremost, and wouldn’t normally give a rat’s ass for secular politics. But passages in the Bible suggest that when the Chosen People are returned to The Promised Land, Christ will come again, and the Rapturists have taken this to mean that the Jews need to be supported against the Palestinians, that we are in End Times now, and that when the Muslims are defeated, Christ will appear in a flaming supermarket trolley.

But yes, there are other reasons that people give for supporting Israel and not Palestine.

Jealous gods are a pain in the arse. One’s true, all the others got to be false. Zero sum games. Bad as armies. Wouldn’t it be nice if we could pack them all off somewhere to fight it out among themselves without bothering the rest of us ?

Richard Robinson

Ditto.

Thanks, whoever you are.

Matthew Huntbach: Thank you for a very interesting post above. Please stick around. The view you describe is probably Calvanist, wherein those favoured are clearly the rich, since God wouldn’t like his favoured people to have a hard time by being poor.

There’s a move to remove a “liberal bias” in the Christian Bible:

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/280153

(This is digitaljournal, so anyone can write there without editing or a need for references, but the point is solid, and can be self-researched)

This great project means the real socialist Jesus can be entirely re-written as the free-wheeling, unregulated libertarian and unrestricted Jaysus can have his messages properly interpreted. Yes indeed!

Thus:

“It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for

a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.” (Matthew 19:24)

Becomes:

“It is easier for [...] a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.”

(New, Improved Matthew 19:24)

Those Calvinists had it right all along!

“So it seems that you are admitting that you consider that all Jews (Zionists or not) are “blood-traitors” to Christ, and that Judaism is false”

No, only those who raise the sword in hostility to Christ, invoking divine mandate to justify what they do. If they leave the sword alone and abstain from blasphemy, they don’t get wasted.

Jon

The “shallow answers to shallow questions” charge made by Patrick Grimm is clearly right on the money in your case.

I believe Gilad Atzmon is one of several Jewish writers who have openly acknowledged the damage wrought by Jewish ethno-supremacist elites against Western culture.

Presumably in your silly truth-distorting PC world we must now refer to Atzmon as a “self-hating Jew”?

Your inability to as Grimm puts it to,”think outside the box”-allows Zionists to hide their racism by projecting it on to their opponents.

Happily as their opponents become-with each new atrocity that estranges them from mankind-more numerous the “anti-semitism” and “self-hating Jew” psychological weapons are becoming pathetically redundant.

Being so far behind the game and trapped in your Frankfurt School box you obviously failed to notice this trend in human affairs.

Pity Grimm’s not updated his essays of late.

In an elegiac and characteristically eloquent essay called The Judaic Spirit and the Jewish Mindset he describes how Greco-Roman classical public virtues have been traded for the consumerism,pragmatism and globalism that are hallmarks of our culture today.

This guy,Jon will probably find it a difficult read!

Dingbat!

Yo,Apostate

The phrase,”AS THE CUTS BEGIN TO BITE” is one we’ll hear from now on ad infinitum.It will be used by increasingly angry people to demand to know why they are expected to suffer for crimes committed against them by Central Casino Banking Inc.

The people’s will demand new answers to old questions.

As the central bankers extract their

pound of flesh from all of us they will also promote the need for WW3.

Truth-seekers like Grimm,Atzmon et al will become even more sought after to provide answers for those who now seek them.

Even some of the clueless brain-washed British middle classes who are about to be dispossessed will seek answers outside the Frankfurt box.

RIP Frankfurters!

DUMP ISRAEL!

DUMP CENTRAL BANKING!

P.S.Reckon they think we’re talking re-sausages?

The research-averse commenters here who denounce any attack on Zionist central banking as “anti-semitic” need to go back to the speeches made by Senators MacFadden,LaFollette and Lindbergh against the Fed during the Depression.

All suffered death threats and harassment because they tried to convey the truth re-central banking.

Steelback – a few points.

I come genuinely from the left, not New Labour, or any of the mainstream pro-Israeli party positions. I think the state of Israel is inhumane, and whilst I think the limited terrorism against Israeli civilians is wrong, I understand it in the context of a truly brutal occupation. I am plenty capable of thinking “outside the box” but I do need to call racism when I see it.

Gilad Atzmon is a good guy, I think, and no, I don’t use the phrase ‘self-hating Jew’. But I’d wager that Atzmon, who is fully critical of Israeli expansionism, would find the Grimm website to be racist, and he would happily condemn it. I’m a big fan of Chomsky, who also speaks out against the occupation, and who is also Jewish. I am confident he would condemn that website too.

I think you deliberately ignore the existence of groups like BT’selem in Israel, in which Jewish people are recognising the atrocities of their state and they’re doing something about it. Ditto the Jewish people who go to the checkpoints to film how the IDF treat the Palestinians, which is often terrible, and sometimes results in the deaths of Palestinians. I went to a socialist meeting last year in London, at which Jewish marxists laid out their case for a one-state solution, which makes them very unpopular in their homeland!

You suggest that “Zionists [are allowed] to hide their racism”, which shows you’ve misunderstood me. Zionism is by necessity a racist ideology, and I will happily say that – it is expansionist and in its worst varieties wants to see the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians. Even Craig is in agreement with your point here, I think.

But the point of the Grimm website is to suggest that all +Jewish+ people are racist, which is wrong and racist in itself – see my earlier examples for proof! I agree that the media in Israel stokes up racist feeling, and the exaggerated threat of Palestinian terrorism heightens the tension and hatred felt by a worrying proportion of the Israeli public. Sadly this is the human condition, but you and Grimm wish to ascribe it to Jewishness, which is what I object to.

I notice that you did not attempt to answer my question about your proposed link between Jewishness and criminality/greed. I think you’ll find that there are a lot of successful Jewish people in finance, but perhaps this was a collective outbreak of determination to overcome the psychological burden of the Holocaust? That would be a laudable thing in itself, aside of course from the damage that capitalism causes. But is there a genetic disposition that gives Jewish people a selfish streak? No.

I am uncomfortable with the phrase ‘anti-semitism’ as it elevates anti-Jewish racism to be a worse case than any other kind of racism. And yes, this device is used to deflect criticism of Israel.

I think your energies would be better put into a socialist analysis, given your views on international finance. That approach would allow you to form a model of the world whilst remaining sympathetic to those Jewish people who, like you, are anti-capitalist and anti-occupation. As I said before, I am interested to read theories outside of the mainstream, but yours tends towards overt racism, and we surely don’t need more hate in the world. There is plenty of that already.

Jon

Sorry I’m afraid brandishing your leftie credentials cuts no ice with me whatever.

You are not only thoroughly misreading Grimm you’re not reading Atzmon properly either.

You appear not to have noticed that Atzmon is saying exactly the same things re-Jewish collective ideology as Grimm. Moreover the selection of terms by each is remarkably similar.

Out of the two, probably because Atzmon is Jewish, he is far less inhibited in his diagnosis of the Jewish mentality than Grimm. Read both more carefully when you’ve put down your Das Kapital or Chomsky!

Characteristically while you think it’s very PC to applaud Atzmon’s stand against Israel you have have not properly read his output on the broader issues of what he terms “Jewish infiltration” of politics and governments.

If Atzmon made such criticisms of the Jewish mentality-he says he knows so well-from a non-Jewish perspective you and I know you’d be shouting all about his “anti-semitism” from the rooftops!

Now I would venture to say your advice re-the need for me to adopt a socialist perspective betrays you as being quite young. Age would have taught you by now that you cannot stuff your politics down anyone else’s neck. It’s both naive and the height of bad manners at the same time.

I’m trying to be delicate here but the left-right paradigm to which you clearly subscribe has no relevance to this issue whatever.

The Soviets were key Israeli allies from day one.Few Arabs today are unaware of the way the Soviets brutally betrayed them by pretending otherwise.

Huge swathes of Ashkenazi immigration from the Soviet bloc helped make Israel the brutal apartheid state it is today.

As someone who participated in the STW marches against the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq I can remember the SWP’s admonitions against our subscribing to the then current Meirsheimer-Walt idea that an “Israeli Lobby” even existed in the US.This we were told would open us to our critics calling us……shock,horror:

ANTI-SEMITES and CONSPIRACY THEORISTS!

The STW movement is still going nowhere today because people like you believe that to criticise Israel or the Lobby or God forbid to question the official 911 account is anti-semitic conspiracy theory.

Sorry Jon, but the recollection of the willed blindness to earthly reality shown by the left at that time alienated me utterly.

Have you not worked out that Fabianism like Marxism before it was sponsored by the same elite?

Open your eyes man!

Have you not worked out that Chomsky who said that the identity of those of who perpetrated 911 was unworthy of anyone’s attention is a Left-Establishmnent gatekeeper?

Wake up for Christ’s sake before it’s too late!

You need a lot of patience to deal with people like Jon, Steelback.

Rather you than me,pal!

This site is stuffed with them to the rafters.

On Atzmon and his recent output I think he IS more brutally frank than Grimm.

The “collective morbidity” he asserts is shared by his people is one that stands out as a quote that will be used ruthlessly by critics like Aaronavitch to denounce him as “self-hating” and “anti-semitic”.

Probably Jon will say the same thing. I mean aren’t Aaronavitch and Nick Cohen leftie heroes?

(LOL)

Let’s let them check out what Atzmon actually says? Mind you they’ll only be allowed to read it if Oberstrurmfuhrer Murray’s still in Africa or one of the ‘Stans!

http://arabnews.com/opinion/columns/article66233.ece

Steelback, you seem to unable to keep the discussion civil. But I’ll take your advice, and read more Atzmon.

Meanwhile I only +suggested+ that you develop a socialist critique – the only person “stuffing politics down [someone] else’s neck” is you. It is strange for me to be dismissed as young when my responses to you are a great deal more polite, and a great deal more literate, than your shouty replies.

My reasonable questions about good people in Israel, and the lack of a proven link between Jews and greedy/selfish traits, remains unanswered. No surprises, I suppose.

If your purpose is to persuade people of your cause, then you are, respectfully, not going the right way about it. I’ve found that with the 9/11 movement too: a person calling themselves “researcher” on this board positively harangued me some while back when I asked a simple and non-aggressive question. Given your propensity for posting under several names, I wonder now whether that was you?

I think I will avoid your handle(s) in future. I was rather hoping for a civil discussion, but you appear unable to participate in one.

Jon: This BS about “being young” is usually because the person making the accusation is a selfish turn-coat who lacks principles. They like the idea of distribution of wealth while younger, because they might have been a student, apprentice etc. and lacked money. Later in life, they see no reason to share anything that they’ve gained through participating in society, and then right wing selfish policies sound more attractive.

Naturally, such a person wants to admit none of this. Being the sort of person they are, they’ll turn it into a virtue – they’re not a turncoat, no no – they’ve become _enlightened_. Yes, that’s it – they’ve gained wisdom through age. Nothing like giving oneself a pat on the back while selfishly abandoning principles, eh?

Furthermore, anyone still true to the principles they once held are clearly not as enlightened, and with age and experience, will surely do the same. If they do not, well now we’re onto the proposition that the person who still holds principles must lack sense.

So it goes.

Expect a chorus of diphthongs, diacritics and diaeresis!

Jon

On Steelback’s inability to hold a civil conversation-I beg to differ.

The guy POLITELY wiped you out, pal!

I would have lost it utterly with you. I mean people like you are the reason we’re where we’re at. People like you are the reason this blog has a Zio-shill infestation.

No wonder a 911 researcher took you to task. I thoroughly empathise with the guy. You totally lack any capacity for critical thinking.

You should feel well at home on this blog!

Make friends with Larry why don’t you?

Jon

On Steelback’s inability to hold a civil conversation-I beg to differ.

The guy POLITELY wiped you out, pal!

I would have lost it utterly with you. I mean people like you are the reason we’re where we’re at. People like you are the reason this blog has a Zio-shill infestation.

No wonder a 911 researcher took you to task. I thoroughly empathise with the guy. You totally lack any capacity for critical thinking.

You should feel well at home on this blog!

Make friends with Larry why don’t you?

These holier-than-thou Lefties like Jon get my goat too.

Have they heard, read, or seen anything that wasn’t authorized by B’nai B’rith or ADL?

Probably not.

Steelback held his shit together where I would have dished it out big-time!

Bring on Cathouse Larry I’m ready!

Bring on the former British Ambassador to Uzbekistan,Rt Honourable Ubersturmfuhrer Murray.

I’m ready!

Shit he’ll delete me before I even get the chance to vent my spleen!

It’s a rigged game!

Didn’t Patrick Grimm, Gilad Atzmon,Elizabeth Dillinger, to name but three, tell us that?

The idea that we’re trying to stuff “our politics down their necks” is plain daft.

I couldn’t give a monkey’s chuff what dingbats like Jon think. He’s plainly got his head up his own arse hasn’t he?

Anyone who still thinks the left-right paradigm has any relevance whatever to out current predicsment needs a full-frontal lobotomy!

This guy, Jon’s already had one!

Steelback

You’re talking re-Elizabeth Dilling n’est pas?

She exposed the Zionist conspiracy long ago. She was so innocent, bless her, she didn’t know what she’d fallen upon.

http://radicalpress.com/?p=1093#more-1093

Vronsky may have called them right ages ago. The steelborn bunch are possibly characters from the same pen as larry.

People can be all sorts, but if these characters were sincere they would be identically deranged, not just from their mixing of indignant outrages with racist and homophobic sentiments, but from the amount of time they spend here cackling and ranting with contempt just like larry, and yet these are supposedly such industrious scholars. To find three or four such similarly deranged characters, all with a shared curriculum, deciding Craig’s little blog deserves so much attention, stretches probability. There are only a dozen or so supportive commenter to the blog of comparable post counts. Its an unusual coincidence of hecklers to end up with naturally for a forum of this size.

Im not certain of this motivation, but i find it easier to consider them as fictional than as the sincere tormented souls they display as. If they are not professionally penned to stink out the rough positions they purport to support here and stink out the forum too, they are an unlikely bunch of hopelessly unpersuasive, twisted, Internet addicts.

Apostate et al – you’ll find my informed opinion on the most infamous inside job ever on the post dedicated to it:

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2010/01/the_911_post.html

Nobody, I repeat – nobody, has managed to offer anything but the most simplistic counter to my demolishing, pardon the phrase, of the Official Story. Particularly my post of January 28, 2010 11:05 PM, which requires no special training to understand – just basic principles of physics. It should not be hard to counter, if the Official Story is true.

I’ve left Zionist conspiracy angles out of it altogether, however – first because I don’t see that it really matters, and second because I don’t see any proof. But I’d be fascinated to discuss it with you on that thread.

Glenn, there is no official story, and you didn’t demolish it.

You should be standing on a corner selling pencils from a cup.

Glenn:

How do you deal with the fact that Craig Murray believes that you’re a “conspiraloon” (his term) for believing that 911 was an inside job?

“Steelback, you seem to unable to keep the discussion civil. But I’ll take your advice, and read more Atzmon.”

Take my advice and don’t.

The guy is a completely pathological purveyor of rehashed Nazi tropes. Why, he pleads can’t we ask ourselves what the Jews did to deserve the Holocaust?

He even had an article called “Judea Declares War on Obama” which is straight out of the Barnes Review playbook.

Angrysoba, yeah, I just learned about this Atzmon guy. From this website. Murray linked to redress.cc, which seems to be a collection point for Atzmon’s hatred.

All Americans might very well have to answer for the two-term election of that incompetent George Bush – that’s just a given, if one thinks in those terms – but in the same vein, I think all Brits need to seriously apologize for the appointment of the incompetent Craig Murray as ambassador.

In other words, it would be nice if someone would provide content at weresorryforcraigmurray.com.

Sorry: .co.uk

Craig Murray deserves a medal for what he did and continues to do. This website is superb and is a locus of engaging and serious political and social discourse.

Obama – like the Clintons – has proved himself a highly competant imperialist.

“Craig Murray deserves a medal for what he did and continues to do.”

No, he deserves ridicule. Just this week, he showed that he believes that the University of Michigan is a hotbed of religiosity (it isn’t – in fact it’s far less religious than Craig’s own university), democrats.com is a wing of the Democratic Party (it isn’t – it’s full of conspiraloons, Shazad the Terrorist deserves our understanding and that the hateful redress.cc deserves a recommendation.

I think the wheels are falling off in Craig’s life. This tends to be what happens when one gives in to hateful stupidity.

The groundswell is growing.

Scottish Jews for a Just Peace:

http://blog.sjjp.org.uk/

When those who back war, death and profits cannot find anything with which to argue, they attack those with whom they cannot argue. In fact, that tends to be their modus operandum as a means of diversion.

What has happened, really, is that the wheels have come off the vehicle of deception so that everyone now can view it for it is.

Cathouse,sandcrab,angrisoba

We know who you are and it’s just hilarious to listen to you spout your fallacious psycho-babble about who you think WE are!

As Steelback mentioned long ago we’ve (that’s me and him) come across each other on different-more intellectually up-market (Hasbarat shill-free) blogs.

Does that make us part of some conspiracy?

Your pathetic attempts to shill for the Zio-fascists are ludicrous but given the dumb PC left establishment’s mental enslavement to Frankfurt School training and their silly guilt complexes re-the supposed sins of their forebears you can get away with it.

We know who you are and the sheeple who cower before your plastic neon-lit altar to Mammon!

You’ll have to do a little more homework on WHO the other two/three guys are.

Funny thing is I thought it was Steelback and me who were the conspiracy theorists.

Mind you it’s characteristic of loathsome air-heads like you shills and your establishment left minions to be COMPLETE and UTTER HYPOCRITES!

Suhayl, what’s the diversion here? Are you really going to argue that the “Christian Broadcasting Network” has anything to do with current (or former) U.S. policy?

The war is killing civilians at an alarming rate. Truth. The war makes big profits for rich people and their corporations. Truth. It is in the interests of these people and their corporation to obscure these basic facts. Truth. They will employ all manner of disinformative tactics in order to permit them to continue to prosecute the wars on which their wealth is dependent. Truth. Most people now see this. Truth. It is about being steeped in the blood of millions. Truth.

How many civilians did the US/ UK et al murder today? That is the question which needs constantly to be directed at our leaders.

How many did they save from what was inevitable under Islam?

Suhayl, you would do better if you were a non-believer from a Muslim family. Instead, you’re simply a believing Muslim.

Suhayl, are you proud of what the Muslim hijackers did on 911?

How many civilians is the USA/ UK et al killing right now, today? That is the key question. Imperialism, as death-machine.

Detroit, this week: mass demonstration. Many Americans know exactly what’s happening and they definitely don’t like what they see. And good on them for it!

Suhayl, are you proud of what the Muslim hijackers did on 911?

In the Muslim world, no one is allowed to demonstrate.

You moron.

Being called a moron by a guy who works in a Jew-run Cathouse-now I’d call that one Hell of an affront.

This guy,Larry’s gonna expose himself just one time too many.

Thinking about it…my paper shop looks just the same.I mean like a Jew-run cathouse!

Incidentally, for anyone interested in the subject of growing-up Jewish in the USA, Jewish American literature and many other matters, may I recommend the work of a writer and academic who is also a good friend and a very warm and lovely person, Faye Moscowitz. Her books are superbly written and are very powerful testaments to humanity.

http://www.gwu.edu/~judaic/js_faye_moskowitz.html

Jeffrey Cohen – same site – is also a fantastically erudite and exciting intellect. He specialises in Mediaeval Britain.

I could be sorry Freeborn, do prove me wrong by not treating the comments with contempt. please.

“The war is killing civilians at an alarming rate. Truth. The war makes big profits for rich people and their corporations. Truth. It is in the interests of these people and their corporation to obscure these basic facts. Truth. They will employ all manner of disinformative tactics in order to permit them to continue to prosecute the wars on which their wealth is dependent. Truth. Most people now see this. Truth. It is about being steeped in the blood of millions. Truth.”

Core Truthes, best wishes.

Another excellent writer, some of whose books have been published by the Arab-owned Saqi Books, westborune Grove, London, is Moris Farhi.

Humanity, of course, is a complex species. Thank goodness.

While giving no quarter when critiquing and opposing violent power and the information organs which help to uphold and spread that power including the so-called ‘liberal’ ones), I am absolutely firm in my refusal to essentialise and attack people simply because of their race, religion, creed, etc. To do so is a slippery slope to nothing except more death and destruction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moris_Farhi

This one is for Jon and all the other leftie establishment Holocaust deniers on this blog!

http://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2010/06/holocaust-denial.html

Excuse me while I vomit all over you you dumb bastards.

Sharing Larry’s bed you guys just have no idea what you’re going to catch.

I mean look at sandcrab,dementedsoba et al-it’s sad!

Thanks, sandcrab. May your rockpools always be replete with good grub!

The Ordeal of Dr Catherine Wilkerson, M.D.

Welcome to the Jackboot State, Ann Arbor Division

Welcome to the jackboot state, not to mention the jackboot campus, anno domini 2007. A doctor gives verbal advice to protect the life of an unconscious man and she duly gets hit with attempted felonies by vindictive campus cops, with the connivance of the University of Michigan. Jury selection for her trial starts on Monday in a county courthouse in Ann Arbor.

This case began with an on-campus talk about Iran last November 30 by Raymond Tanter, a former Reagan administration foreign policy advisor and nutball cofounder of the Committee on the Present Danger. More recently he’s co-founder of the Iran Policy Committee. Tanter has said publicly on more than one occasion that nuking Iran wouldn’t be a bad idea.

counterpunch.org/cockburn11242007.html

More recently Dr Catherine Wilkerson, MD, MPH was dismissed from the Packard Community Clinic for refusing to sign a contract that imposed restrictions of freedom of expression. The ACLU intervened and issued a criticism of the clinics policy.

dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/aclu-supports-position-of-doctor-terminated-by-packard-community-clinic/

This month Catherine organised a panel discussion sponsored by ANSWER Coalition (Act Now to Stop War & End Racism)featuring Mike Prysner, an Iraq war veteran and co-founder of the veterans and service members organization March Forward!, whose gripping Winter Soldier testimony about the brutal and racist character of the occupation forces in Iraq has been viewed 1.5 million times.

organize.ussf2010.org/ws/building-anti-racist-anti-war-movement-frontlines-iraq-and-afghanistan-unemployment-lines-usa

Bravo Dr Catherine!

Jon,

I agree that Grimm’s site is anti-Jewish and offensive. Respect to you for attempting to reason with “Steelback”. Unfortunately, previous experience indicates that this is futile and merely results in abuse.

Jon,

Suhayl,

Glenn,

Sandcrab,

Mark Golding,

thank you all for your comments; your humanity shines through. Note the interesting dynamic: the “Apostate” Multiple Character attacks various, including Larry. Larry also attacks, but never the Multiple Character.

All readers,

Apostate, Freeborn, Steelback, and the latest false name Anarchore – these are all the same person, who also goes by “Tungsten” and “Juniper”. This Multiple Character repeatedly posts links to offensive anti-Jewish articles.

Apostate Multiple Character,

Larry from St Louis,

you two resemble each other, you are united in sending angry, aggressive comments, and in being offensive to the most humane commenters.

———–

For the record – I condemn Israeli atrocities and Israeli expansionism.

Hey Superman!

Your absurdly convoluted reasoning linking me with Larry on the same disinfo. team is quite the funniest exercise I’ve come across.

Your feeble posturing on moral and “humane” high ground is typical of the wet establishment left that make this blog so vulnerable to Hasbarah infiltration in the first place.

So obsessed are you guys with your own PC credibility and squishing every comment board contributor into a goodie/baddie box you fail to contribute anything meaningful whatever to discussion yourselves.

The thread concerns Christian Zionists and links have been posted that describe how Zionists have financed and infiltrated most of the religious right in the US.

The Discernment Ministries site deals specifically with Worldwide Church of God and British Israelism as vehicles for a revived British Empire.

This was meaningful on-topic discussion.

Your contribution as usual was a tepid OT rant against people you suggest are “anti-semitic”.

The overwhelming evidence suggests it is far more likely you and your air-head left establishment friends are on the same side as the shills.

You’re just too dumb and brainwashed to have worked it out yet!

DUMP ISRAEL!

DUMP SUPERMAN AND THE SHILLS!

Thanks Clark. I tend towards the view that commentaters here are usually prepared to engage, even ones that tend to disagree such as @angrysoba, @abe and @alfred. I was (sceptically) curious as to how “the Jews” might be linked specifically to greed; but no answers came, just bluster. I am still open to enlightenment!

It is a curious feature of some purveyors of political alternative theories that: if simple questions are asked, there may be answers, but only angry accusations and insults are returned. Thus the genuinely interested person is denied ‘the truth’ that the purveyors would claim should be widely known about.

And… to lighten the mood . I’m sitting in the sunshine in the Yorkshire Dales at the moment. The glorious English sunshine is streaming through, the breeze is cooling and gentle, and I’m off to ride on a steam train in a bit. Then, I should think, we’ll find somewhere where a real ale can be found in the evening.

Bliss.

Give my regards to the Swale, Jon.

Jon and superman

People like you are boring the arse off the rest of us on this blog who actually want to engage in serious discussion and research.

It’s no surprise a lot of these are now going elsewhere for sustenance.

We sure as Hell are going to learn absolutely nothing from you guys.

Your adolescent obsession with peer-group approval ( i.e. taking up some infantilized PC moral high ground with your intellectually-challenged pals ) means you have nothing at all worthwhile to say.

The idea that anyone is going to respond to the utterly fatuous observation that there are “some nice Jews about” betrays your total incapacity for critical thinking.

You’d both be better off making such daft remarks standing on the door-step of The Rovers Return or The Queen Vic!

Get a life you saddoes!

You’re Zio-fascist quislings and belong in bed with the lies of angri,crabs and Larry!

You’re all sharing a brain-cell!

Don’t worry Ubersturmfuhrer Murray will always protect you in your time of need!

Like now when you’re being exposed as the vacuous shills you really are!

You’re lashing into Der Ubersturmfuhrer’s core readership Prostrate-go easy on them!

They think if they get their “A” Star GCSEs,Gold Star “A” grade “A” levels and read The Guardian they’re “educated”!

Thinking about it now-while they’re in front of the t.v. watching those Holocaust-perpetrating Germans play multi-cultural and proud England-these guys NEED protecting from the likes of polemicising Apostates like you!

LOL!

Whatever they call themselves, the sneering tone of voice is very tedious. Is it calculated to deter other people from responding, or just unfortunate ?

“Apoostate”

(and all your other names),

this is my last message to you. From now on I’m going to simply skip over your comments.

You repeatedly link to sites that criticise people merely for being Jewish. This offends me. I acknowledge that your own writing is critical of a more closely defined group. However, your links suggest that your motivation is prejudice against Jews, and I therefore do not trust the direction of your arguments.

Read my earlier post more carefully; The dynamic I referred to is clearly discernible. I suggest that there is some *reason* that Larry from St Louis does not criticise you. You may be ‘on the same team’ or not, that is not relevant to this argument.

It is also clear that you, under your various names, are one of the most aggressive and offensive posters at this site, as is Larry. I do not wish to converse with such people. Basically, you need to sort out your personal problems, or I will ignore you.

Best wishes.

Robinson,Clark Kent you pair of excruciatingly boring dingbat shills!

Yes, please skip over my comments all together.

They certainly weren’t meant for adolescent GCSE re-sits like you pair of headless chickens.

Fuck off you boring bastards!

The world is a far more interesting place than you dumb shills would have us believe.

Come back when you’ve grown out of The Guardian and the BBC!

Please God I don’t meet up with you at some funeral-the level of conversation you’re capable of sustaining would make the quick at the headstones and the dead in their graves-reel in a state of abject ennui!

You’re a bit like the England football team-not at the races!

I agree with Clark, the sock-puppets need to calm down and drink less coffee. Less aggression, less exclamation marks; more reason, more reasonableness.

Let’s pretend though, Apostate, that I still regard the BBC and the Guardian as beacons of left-wing reason (I don’t). Let’s say also that I want to come around to your line of thinking. What it is about Jewish people that predisposes them to selfishness?

Last chance?

Jon, Clark, and Robinson

Please do as Apostate tells you and fuck off!

I agree with what has been said re-people like you being painfully boring. The painfully low level to which you would like to reduce debate defies belief.

Apostate puts your education at GCSE level. I’d rate it worse than that.

How did you do at SATs?

You have not added one iota to our human stock of knowledge on any thread to which you’ve contributed.

I doubt you even remember what this thread was originally about.

Do us all a favour a take a hike!

From all the “multiple personality” comment boarders here we wish you well!

Well, we wish you’d fall down a well anyway!

Steelback et al – I don’t think SATs were introduced when I was at the requisite age, but I do have a first class degree in Computer Science, with honours. I write better than you do, I argue better than you do, and I am a great deal more civil.

You won’t answer simple questions nor treat your opponents with respect, but so be it; I will now not waste any more energy trying to reason with you, or try to understand the causes of your racism. I do hope in time you can be persuaded to reduce your anger through other means.

@Suhayl – said hi to the Ure today for you, at Aysgarth Falls, and took pictures. From my campsite now, I can’t hear any background car traffic at all – just the occasional cry of a bird, and the purr of the refrigerator.

A peaceful night to all.

Jon – “I write better than you do, I argue better than you do, and I am a great deal more civil.”

That’s about it, and good luck to you.

Fair answer to my question, though; it’s not an accident. *shrug*. I’ll fuck off or not, at my own pleasure.

I wanna killfile.

Jon

Ist Class Computer Science?

You bloody nerd!

Now I really do wonder re-your defiency in social skills.

If I had one of those I’d keep schtum.

Especially when you’re purporting to know something re-how the world works.

I think we’ve all worked out that you’ve convinced yourself that contributing on matters of moment with people who think about such matters is a matter simply of bull-shitting your way through.

As was said earlier you are not at the races.

Dishing out specious charges of “anti-semitism”, homophobia and psychological deficiencies against your opponents is simply never going to pass muster in lieu of engaging with the issues.

You and Robinson are know-nothings and have precisely zero to contribute.

Have you a view on the point made re-Zionist infiltration of right wing Christian groups?

No, you’re far more comfortable pretending you have some kind of monopoly on the moral high ground.

In other words you’re so full of your own inadequacies you think attaining this position of eminence is your first priority.

Neither of you can ever be of any help to the cause of anti-Zionism whatever.

You’ve got nothing to say of any relevance whatever.

Now please clear off-I’ve got more important things to do today than help you overcome your delusions of adequacy.

How about you guys reading some primer like Emmett’s Learning To Philosophize?

It could save you much embarrassment in the future.

The game’s up guys you’re shit and you know you are!

Jon

“I write better than you do!”

“I’ve got a 1st class with honours!”

Did you really say both those things.

Just incredible!

How old are you,man?

You clearly have a chip re-your patent intellectual inferiority.

You’ve compounded the original felony of trying to ram your socialist politics down other people’s throats by talking re-your qualifications and achievements.

Have you no shame at all?

These things are just not done in polite society!

Look, I was talking to a trainee teacher the other day who told me she had a 1st in Sociology. She was in a brass band and had written a thesis on the social dynamics of her bloody brass band!

She had never heard of Emile Durkheim! The founding father of modern sociology did not register on her radar.

A 1st class degree today like most other qualifications isn’t worth the paper it’s written on.

Haven’t you heard of grade inflation,man?

To convince us that our educational standards were improving at all levels across the board they simply jettisoned any idea that only a few candidates could obtain the highest grades.

That way we ended up with a whole generation of by and large ignorant and ill-informed people without any capacity for critical thinking.

Now you’ve flourished your socialism, your academic qualifications and made utterly spurious claims without any real evidence of your writing abilities-and I have to tell you we are all deeply underwhelmed!

Please stop embarrassing yourself. It’s painful to watch.

Apostate

Embarrassing and painful to watch-rather like the England football team!

Having greatly inflated ideas re-their abilities is not confined to our graduate population now.

We have a national side that is clearly awful at their job and in post-match interviews displays glaring problems with syntax yet they like Jon seem to think they have intellectual abilities!

Computer Science? You might as well brag re-a degree in plumbing for all the relevance such a qualification has here!

Jon-when my computer breaks down I’ll give you a call!

Lynn Truss was on the radio this morning talking re-England,their supporters,commentators creating a mythical status for the team they so obviously didn’t deserve.

Thus she spoke of Jurgen Klinsmann managing to convince English viewers that,yes England could indeed go all the way and win the World Cup!

Rooney was playing badly but the pundits and management convinced themselves that it would be unthinkable to drop him in favour of fresh blood.

Wayne was now emblematic of some “too big to fail” derivatives bank!

The capacity of a nation for self-delusion has been put brutally under the microscope this week. With celebrations about beating Slovenia preceding mournful laments re-being wiped out by a half-decent German team.

If ever there was an opportunity to now come to terms with the fact that we have now become a third-rate country with absurd delusions of grandeur it is NOW!

With our piss-poor national football team and what we have learned about the vainglorious delusions of our “1st Class with Honours” generation of graduates it’s time we looked into the mirror a little more reflectively methinks!

Freeborn

Er, no offence mate-but I think Jon still writes better than you, mate!

Seriously no wonder these guys spend their nights in offensively banal exchanges with Larry,crabs,angrisoba,Clark,Robinson!

They are living with the fairies!

P.S. Look I’m not being homophobic either,guys!

Apostate,Freeborn

I wanted to execute the coup de grace with that computer engineer guy!

You guys are clearly cruising for a bruising and are going to be permanently deleted real soon.

Ubersturmfuhrer Murray is content with his life right now so you’re getting away with it.

If Scotland had just got knocked out of the World Cup he’d have had your guts for garters by now.

Rest assured Scotland didn’t even qualify.

He won’t hear of any anti-semitic theories re-who’s running FIFA now either!

If you can’t get a degree without bragging about it from the rooftops-you….well you never had any business being at uni in the first place!

Reckon our cardboard cut-out for the new generation of graduates will dare show his face here again?

It’s a bit like the Beatles in Hamburg. Despite all the abuse and bottles flying at them they just kept coming back for more!

Mind you they were drugged and pissed up to the eyeballs!

Mind you I reckon, 1st Class Honours Jon must be too!

LOL!

The reluctance of the Zio-shills to come to the aid of the dummies that denounce anti-Zionists like me as racists suggests neither are comfortable with the thread topic.

Shills and computer programmers what a team! And there’s always Ubersturmfuhrer Murray on hand to rescue them from us “anti-semites” (LOL!)

In the absence of their being able to provide one shred of counter-evidence to the assertion that right wing evangelical Americans are mind-control slaves of the Zionists here’s more evidence to support the idea that this is indeed the case.

http://mysteryworshipers.wordpress.com/

If some you find this piece offensive to those nice Zionists you’re always on about-good!

You tender-minded dingbats!

Seems to be an aptly relevant article;

http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2010/06/22/america-apartheid-or-apocalypse/

The disturbing scenario painted by Duff of civil war in the US in the Veterans Today link above contains glaring inescapable truths we ignore at our peril.

The image of the US as a hollowed out shell of an economy with whole swathes of the culture warped by Zionist-orchestrated religious bigotry and resentment about to explode is one that will stay in the minds of readers for a long time to come.

Probably until it happens-which won’t be long now.

Many thanks-this was stimulating reading.

I’m afraid it may not be to the taste of the PC Zio-mind-control slaves here. Duff fingers Ziofascism as the parasite feeding on and ultimately disgorging its host in the Final WW3 Rapture.

They be frightened off by such clearly anti-semitic imagery!

Oh and by the way-Duff is not as good a writer as our Jon here either(LOL)!

The Duff piece also makes fleeting reference to the Zionist bankers on Wall Street who engineered the economic meltdown that will precede the coming Apocalypse.

Ubersturmfuhrer Murray has made plain that any reference to Zionist bankers is anti-semitic conspiracy theory.

While in the US we have the Lieberman Bill allowing Obama to shut down the internet for “security” (read protect Israel) reasons and Sunstein’s drive against conspiracy theories here in the US we’ve got………

THE MURRAY BILL TO

(1)ENFORCE HOLOCAUST FUNDAMENTALISM AS THE STATE RELIGION

(2)ILLEGALIZE ALL REFERENCE TO ZIONIST BANKERS AS ANTI-SEMITIC CONSPIRACY THEORY

(3)CLOSE DOWN ALL SITES THAT ARE NOT GATEKEEPERS FOR CORPORATE INTERESTS

We are witnessing not just the Endtime and Final Rapture but The Origins of Totalitarianism!

We might have guessed the source of Totalitarianism lay in the PC Liberal Left establisment!

Just how Frankfurt School programming encourages Zio-mind-control slaves like the simpletons here to look for evidence of “anti-semitism” under every stone is here:

http://www.schillerinstitute.org/fid_91-96/921_franfurt.html

Frankfurt was a Bolshevik propaganda school in 1920s Germany that with Rockefeller funding when it moved to the US morphed into a social engineering outfit whose impact on the general culture and higher education is still reverberating today.

On Adorno and Horkheimer’s cultural project via the Frankfurt study on The Authoritarian Personality-type the Schiller piece is quite succinct:

“Their goal was not the protection of Jews from prejudice but a definition of authoritarianism and anti-semitism which could be exploited to force “the scientifically-planned re-education of Americans and Europeans away from the principles of the Judeo-Christian civilisation,which the Frankfurt school despised.

“In their theoretical writings of this period,Horkheimer and Adorno pushed this thesis to its most paranoid:just as capitalism was inherently fascistic,the philosophy of Christianity itself is the source of anti-semitism.”

The spurious “science” behind the School’s cultural investigations is never more clearly at work than in the pages of their Authority Personality study.

The children raised on such PC propaganda are the ones who’ve passed through the university system and now undermine everyone else’s attempts to find out what’s really wrong with the world.

Their impotent cultural pessimism and cynicism re-the motivation of fellow humans who happen to disagree with their PC orthodoxy infects those here who still can’t make it out of the Frankfurt box.

Freeborn. May I make a suggestion? May I suggest that you write an essay on the subject to which you allude, with references and all the usual accoutrements. Perhaps you already have done this. Then you could have it published somewhere (on a website, for example) and make reference to it. I do think that if you do that, it would be honourable to use your real name to indicate authorship. Doing this would serve two purposes:

1) It would save you having to reiterate the same arguments, again and again to your confidantes, Apostate et al and everyone else. This must be frstrating for you.

2) It would enable to you – and everyone else – collate and link your ideas into an organic whole.

3) It also would allow people to confirm or attempt to refute your positions on a more formal basis, rather than through the somewhat ephemeral, fluid medium of a web-log. It would reduce the tendency for slagging-matches between bloggers in relation to you and your ideas.

I suggest this in all seriousness, not in jest. But from your previous correspondence on this blog, you have created th impression that in some way you are linked to some form of academic institution, and so perhaps you have already considered this option and rejected it.

Steelback: Apart from regurgitating the standard stormfront.com style of lashing out against anyone not holding the faith/ failing to be suitable down on the lessor races/ possessing impure blood, what exactly are you contributing yourself?

I mean, Jeez – you accuse people of being boring, but I’ve yet to see anything spirited or original from you. It’s all just boilerplate material. Come on, raise your game.

Comrade Fidel is warning us to prepare for the Rapture;

http://www.cuba.cu/gobierno/reflexiones/2010/ing/f270610i.html

(Even if it does not kick-off as he says, the UN still urgently needs to be democratically reformed before it’s manipulations by the US, do indeed cause WW3).

Jews and Christians don’t grow up yound suicide bombers in their houses? Am I wrong? Just coorect me if so.

Good article and video http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/insideisrael/2010/July/Gaza-Under-Hamas-A-Taliban-like-Regime-/ .

AbeBird at 9:20am: Pathetic.

I write as someone who personally does not agree with fundamentalism of any sort. That includes militaristic fundamentalism.

If one assumed the kind of monochromatic argumentation which you seem to favour, one might posit that this or that group of people – , millions, say, in the USA or the UK – grew up around nuclear warheads or military bases, or the war economy or in the normative situation of perpetual imperial war.

A scenario in which almost every commercial computer video-game for kids demonises Arabs.

Your attempt to essentialise and demonise billions is shameful but entirely predictable. You squash people until they can’t breathe and then you point to them and say, “Look how flat they are! Just goes to prove that they are one-dimensional! Just goes to show that all people are like that.”

Immature reasoning. Propaganda.

@AbeBird. Ha, “you don’t get Jewish terrorists”. Read up on how the state of Israel was created – you’ll be quite surprised. I’ve included a link – a letter sent to the Independent (London) – which you might find useful as a starting point.

Yeah, that’s it, Jon, good link.

And think about medical doctor, Baruch Goldstein, who is celebrated by many (but also condemned by many) in Israel as a hero. And the terrorist who assassinated Rabin. And those of the Stern Gang and Irgun. Menachem Begin, Yitzhak Shamir…

And we haven’t even begun to talk about state terrorism.

You see, AbeBird, everyone lives in a glass house.

Best, then, to analyse processes, rather than cast stones.

Best, then, to seek solutions.