I didn’t wonder those Zionist ass holes attacked the Flotilla.It’s been their way of living since it’s foundation

Well done! Behind you now.

Having got a nice new stash of passports from the flotilla passengers (so useful if Mossad want to carry out any more assassinations as in Dubai) they now have the gall to use stolen credit cards.

Journos credit card used after confiscated by IDF.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/italian-flotilla-journalist-my-credit-card-was-used-after-idf-confiscated-it-1.295493

PS I like the way that a few shots from catapults sent the helicopter away. Shades of David and Goliath there.

Craig, Antiwar.com has just done a great interview with Daniel Ellsberg in which you get honourable mention.

http://bit.ly/agZu9N

What are those bloodstains supposed to prove, exactly?

They are stigmata, Michael, didn’t you know?

I think it proves what the activists have said all along: that they were shot at from the helicopter before the commandos even boarded the ship.

Stunning footage, and as we can see the activists were indeed armed – with digital cameras!

At around 2:07 – is that flash and bang a gunshot from the helicopter?

The IDF guys on speed boats are there to shoot at anybody who interferes with the descension of soldiers from the helicopter.

It was a well planned murder.

The footage is phenomenal. And it is a cliffhanger with more to come.

I find it a bit difficult to follow.

Obviously not all of that was filmed before the Israelis came aboard. Much of it was clearly filmed after some Israelis had come aboard.

So, was any of it at all taken before they came aboard?

Sun June 6th, 1.45pm) The Ireland Palestine Solidarity Campaign has just recieved word that the five Irish prisoners from the MV Rachel Corrie, which was hijacked yesterday by Israeli forces, are due to arrive in Dublin airport at 11.20am tomorrow morning. There will be a welcoming committee to meet them and press conference to follow at 3pm in The Central Hotel, Exchequer Street, Dulin 2. Included among the five returning are Mairead Maguire, Nobel Peace Prize laureate, Ireland and Denis Halliday, former UN Assistant Secretary General, Ireland

Freda Hughes of the IPSC said, ” We are relieved that the prisoners from the MV Rachel Corrie, but we must remember that they were illegally kidnapped and taken against their will to Israel.”

The boarding by Israeli forces is in defiance of a direct call from the Irish Government, which had formally requested Israel allow the ship to reach Gaza. On 1 June, the Irish parliament also passed an all-party motion condemning Israel’s use of military force against civilian aid ships, and demanding “an end to the illegal Israeli blockade of Gaza.”

The 1200-ton cargo ship was purchased through a special fund set up by former Malaysian Prime Minister and Perdana Global Peace Organisation (PGPO) chairman Tun Dr. Mahathir Mohamad and is owned by The Free Gaza Movement. Its cargo included hundreds of tons of medical equipment and cement, as well as 20 tons of paper from the people of Norway, donated to UN-run schools in Gaza.

A group of Jewish activists in Germany are preparing to send an aid ship to the Gaza Strip, which has been under an Israeli-imposed blockade for three years.

The group, which is the German branch of the European Jews for a Just Peace, plans to send the aid ship by the end of July.

“We want to break the Gaza occupation and end the occupation of the West Bank as well… we as Jews want to bring the Palestinians something other than bombs,” Kate Katzenstein-Leiterer, a member of the executive committee of the group, said on Thursday.

The ship will be carrying school supplies, musical instruments, children’s clothing and other children items that Israel has forbidden, such as sweets and chocolates, Spiegel Online reported.

About 16 people will be onboard the vessel. However, a lot of activists form around the world are sending requests to join the group, including some volunteers from Israel, Katzenstein-Leiterer said.

European Jews for a Just Peace has been collecting funds for the aid ship since 2008.

After Israel’s bloody assault on the Freedom Flotilla on May 31, interest in the project has increased and donations have been flooding to the group, Katzenstein-Leiterer said.

Edith Lutz, another member the European Jews for a Just Peace, said that the group was in contact with Israeli officials.

“We are in contact with the Israeli government and the embassy in Berlin. We informed them a while ago,” she was quoted by AFP as saying.

However, the group is concern over the possibility of an Israeli attack on the ship.

Israel has put Gaza Strip under all-out blockade, preventing international aid groups from entering the region.

On May 31, the Gaza Freedom Flotilla, which was carrying food and medical supplies to Gaza, came under fire early in the morning by Israeli navy forces in international waters.

Twenty international activists were killed in the deadly assault and 50 others were injured in the incident.

ASH/MMN

Pity nobody on board had an RPG. Next time…..

Just occurred to me – what happens to the ships themselves? Do they get returned, or does Israel hold onto them?

Tut, tut, Mr anonymuss – an RPG kinda defeats the humanitarian aid purpose, doncha think? Now, a catapult to launch custard pies I could get behind that notion!

What colour was the paint from the paintball guns that the Israelis were using?

angrysoba

a paintball gun leaves a coherent splodge. That on the ship is an impact spray of blood.

I welcome your counter arguments on this blog, but in this instance I don’t accept that you yourself for one moment believe the lies you are peddling.

Oh, come an angry… That’s a bit desperate, isn’t it?

How do you know that this is the blood of the dead, not of the merely wounded or even Israelis?

Given that the Marmara signalled to the Israelis: ‘Shut up! Go back to Auschwitz!’ how do you know the Israelis weren’t provoked?

The organisation which owned and controlled the ship, is IHH, which is a jihad organisation.

About those who were killed.

Did they fall within the terms of Ummdat as-Salik (Reliance of the Traveller), manual of Islamic Law by Nuh ha-Mim Keller (trans.) page 601. If they did, then they are not protected civilians.

“Who is obliged to fight in jihad?”

“Those called upon are every able-bodied man who has reached puberty and is sane.”

“I welcome your counter arguments on this blog, but in this instance I don’t accept that you yourself for one moment believe the lies you are peddling.”

I’m not peddling lies. I’m just asking questions.

I’m also genuinely confused about the chronology here.

Some of them are walking around with a list of people from the flotilla. They took the list from one of the IDF. But the ship doesn’t appear to have been commandeered by this point..

The blood on the walls was obviously due to the en masse menstruation of all females on board who’d run out of tampons.

Joint Senate and House Resolution 666

Whereas the Free Gaza movement is dedicated to the destruction of Israel and of the Jewish people;

Whereas Rache Corrie got what she deserved;

Whereas members of both Houses are on a mission from God to serve the state of Israel;

Whereas the majority of members of Congress place Israel’s interest over those of the American people;

Whereas the aforementioned members of Congress are a bunch of pussies when it comes to standing up to Israel;

Whereas the Zionist Lobby has a death grip on the entire legislative branch;

Whereas some members of the Senate, such as Charles Schumer, play roles which are “very important in the United States senate, [which] is [for us] to be shomers [guardians]?” to be a or the shomer [s] [of] Yisrael. And [we] will continue to be that with every bone in [our] bod[ies]… “;

Whereas other members of the legislative branch, such as Deborah Wasserman-Schultz, ” want to be able to maximize [our] ability[ies] to advance the interests of Israel”;

Whereas both chambers of the Legislative branch agree with Ms. Wasserman-Schultz when she stated “The more advocates for Israel in America, the better.”;

Whereas other members of Congress, such as Jane Harman ?” known to many Americans as “Mossad Jane” ?” are in close contact with Israeli agents;

Whereas the “Israel Project’s” advisory board is composed of one American actor and 22 members of the House and Senate, to wit:

Evan Bayh D-IN

Ben Cardin, D-MD

Saxby Chambliss, R-GA

Tom Coburn R-OK

Norm Coleman, R-MN

Susan Collins, R-ME

Judd Gregg, R NH

Joe Lieberman, I-CT

Bill Nelson, D-FL

Gordon Smith, R-OR

Arlen Specter, R-PA

Ron Wyden, D-OR

Rob Andrews, D-NJ

Shelley Berkley, D-NV

Tom Davis, R-VA

Eliot Engel, D-NY

Frank Pallone, D-NJ

Jon Porter, R-NV

John Sarbanes, D-MD

Jim Saxton, R-NJ

Brad Sherman, D-CA

Joe Wilson, R-SC

Ron Silver, Actor & Director

Maybe the shabaab found some traitors in their midst and killed them.

Michael Petek

The Israelis have admitted that statement was faked.

“Given that the Marmara signalled to the Israelis: ‘Shut up! Go back to Auschwitz!’ how do you know the Israelis weren’t provoked?”

Go find yourself another justification.

There is some confusion about the what the red liquid below the hatch (seen near beginning of video) was, from the reddit thread:

—

HistoricaDeluxa 7 hours ago[-]

I think you guys should know that the first guy speaking in the video, is a Norwegian and he says:

“vi har ett lite laser sikte” translated it means “we have a small laser sight” (first i thought he said “jeg har ett…” which means “i have a” but after listening a few times i’m pretty sure it was “vi” aka “we” – this is a common way to say something in Norwegian to point out a situation – doesn’t necessarily mean they are in ownership of the laser sight, but rather that the situation has a lazer sight)

“de har et laser sikte… jeg lurer p

Has anyone else noticed the similarities between Michael Petek denying and justifying what Israel does and what NeoNazis do when they deny what Hitler did but at the same time call for it to be done again?

For pathetic Petek @3.08pm

‘Given that the Marmara signalled to the Israelis: ‘Shut up! Go back to Auschwitz!’ how do you know the Israelis weren’t provoked?’

_________________________________

_________________________________

http://aliabunimah.posterous.com/proof-emerges-idf-audio-of-radio-communicatio

_________________________________

_________________________________

Is it any wonder then the Nazis and zionists now march hand in hand through the streets of london, giving Nazi salutes with one hand and waiving Israeli flags with the other?

http://scottishislamic.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/welsh-defence-league-nazi-salute.jpg

Why the constant attempts to turn all discussions about the murders and kidnappings committed by the Israeli state in international waters to an arcane and useless ramble around textual exegesis of various obscure and largely irrelevant publications?

It’s fascinating, Michael, that you appear so very learned in such fields.

Your posts remind me a little of those of a Mediaeval wizard of my acquaintance.

Perhaps you would do well, instead, to peruse the manifold works of the Great Magus, Michael Scot of Selkirk.

But, as Lady Macbeth (oddly enough, another figure who comes to mind when I read your posts on the subject) might have intoned on breezy, moonless night in Middle Scotland, ‘murder is murder is murder’.

“The Israelis have admitted that statement was faked.

“Given that the Marmara signalled to the Israelis: ‘Shut up! Go back to Auschwitz!’ how do you know the Israelis weren’t provoked?” ”

Errr… I don’t think they did.

And for good measure from the Free Gaza organisation, 22 seconds of the most damming evidence of brutality -

Video Shows Israeli Commando Executing Turkish-American Aid Student

The Israeli military attempted to confiscate and erase the photographic

and video evidence of its brutal asault on the Mavi Marmara …The most

damaging is a film of an Israeli soldier kicking an American citizen while the latter is on the ground,and then executing him.

SEE THE VIDEO:

http://intifada-palestine.com/2010/06/video-shows-israeli-commando-executing-american/

angrysoba

You don’t but they do.

That is because they were forced to because they made a very silly mistake.

They had released the unedited version of the exchange with out the addition of those words. So when those words were added to the next version, it was very easy to spot.

The reason why the Zionists make such mistakes, is people like you don’t care about the facts. You support them blindly.

Whether the people on the boat said that or not you will still support them. Whether the Zionists admit to doctoring or not, you will still support them.

They were throwing their loyal dogs such as you a bone by fabricating it, so you can use it the way you do.

and you continue using it even after they admit it was fabricated.

Israel admits the blockade is not about security but ECONOMIC WARFARE (and thus illegal?):

“McClatchy obtained an Israeli government document that describes the blockade not as a security measure but as “economic warfare” against the Islamist group Hamas, which rules the Palestinian territory.”

Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/06/09/95621/israeli-document-gaza-blockade.html#ixzz0qYdP3xT1

Mae

It doesn’t matter what Israel Admits to.

Zionist trolls will always support Israel.

When Israel does something really bad, Zionist trols respond by denying it.

If Israel admits it, Zionist trols respond by justifying it.

So what difference does it make if Israel admits something or not?

They will always support Israel.

And it makes no difference to us either, we all knew it was economic collective punishment before Israel admitted it. because it is blinding obvious that it is economic collective punishment.

Israel is above the law, because they own enough politicians in the White House and the UK parliament to stay above the law. Nut cases like Michael Petek are the worse ones, they will support Israels actions even if it means the death of ever last person in Israel. That isn’t just a price those nutters are worth paying, it is their objective!

That is the rapture that they want to speed up, by supporting Israel.

Michael Petek and his people are the worst Antisemites of them all.

Before Palestine can be freed from Zionism, the world needs to be freed from Zionism.

Every country needs to do their own bit to remove the Zionists from their parliaments.

And I’m not just talking about the ones who call themselves Jews,

Anon, I watched the video and couldn’t see anyone on it except Israeli soldiers. And no sign that they were shooting at anyone on the deck.

Read the testimony of Fayez Alghussein on the website of the Armenian Genocide Museum at http://www.genocide-museum.am/eng/eye_witnesses2.php

Look at the very end of the document.

After the gendarmes had killed a number of Armenian men, they put turbans on them and brought Kurdish women to weep and lament over them, saying that Armenians had killed their men. Then they brought photographers to record it all for posterity.

Recently in Nigeria Islamists massacred Christians, then took their bodies to their mosques and put them on display to pass them off as Muslims killed by Christians.

As for the ‘Israeli’ soldiers, we know from what Borat says that they can’t really have been Israelis.

If they had been, you’d have been able to see their horns.

Look at this Nazi!

Just look at him.

What would happen if used his method of demonising Islam on Christianity?

So What religion were the Germans, What religion were the people who sent Jews to the concentration camps?

What religion were the Spanism and British who exterminated the entire population of North and south America to such an extent that they didn’t leave enough alive to enslave so blacks had to be imported from Africa?

What religion were the British who repeated it in Australia and New Zealand.

Michael Petek, people in glass houses shouldn’t through stones.

Heroshima Nagasaki, Vietnam do you want me to continue?

Oh I forgot, you don’t really consider mainstream Christians as true Christians do you?

Christianity only consists of you, and other members of your new made in Israel cult?

Michael Petek

I have read your exact argument by a Nazi.

It said the photos of bodies in concentration camps were really Germans. The Russians, locked up a bunch of Germans in concentration camps, starved them to death and took photos and said they were Jews.

Michael Petek, you are a Nazi, did you read that article the same place as I did, and swapped a few words around to post

Posted by: Michael Petek at June 11, 2010 4:27 PM

In response to being asked what her greatest achievement was, Margaret Thatcher is said to have replied ‘New Labour’. I am increasingly of the opinion that Hitler would say the same of Israel.

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/3381/israelss.jpg

http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/1674/forbid.jpg

And just think in a couple of months there will be a vote on who will be the next labour zionist leader, ed or david.

And then in a years time we can all vote between conservative friends of israel and labour friends of israel

This thread, and this subject, is not about ‘Muslims vs Christians’. It’s about murder on the high seas and the blockade of Gaza, the illegal occupation of territory and oppression and denial of human rights and justice.

I do wish, Arsalan, and I mean this well, that you would avoid playing into Michael’s attempt to divert the discussion.

He has a hobby-horse which points only one way; that’s his prerogative. But his role here seems to be is to divert constantly. We know what your views are. I think it’s important to keep bringing it back to ground-level, to the reality of concrete matters.

Arsalan, I’d rather you didn’t continue.

If you keep bouncing off the walls of your padded cell, you might shatter your skull against the hard ceiling.

BP, you are so right:

Because that was exactly what Hitler wanted. Jews out of Germany.

Israel achieved more than what he wanted, it also achieved Jews out of the parts of europe he didn’t country, and it also resulted in a lot of Jews leaving white countries outside of Europe such as America.

It is not only zionists who are Nazis, but Nazis are Zionists.

That is why you see Nazis and Zionists attending each others demonstartion in the UK now. They all wave Zionist flags and give Nazi solutes. Because they are all the same.

“If you keep bouncing off the walls of your padded cell, you might shatter your skull against the hard ceiling”.

Listen to the man Arsalan, he speaks from personal experience.

Michael you in no position to call any body a nutter.

If you think you are read some of your earlier posts. Even your fellow Zionists on this board consider you to be a Nut Job. Go to any Church, and tell them about your beliefs in the rapture, and they will call you a nutter. Speak to any Jew about your beliefs, and see them say the same thing.

Michael, you are a silly little man, with silly beliefs who belongs to a silly little cult. No one likes you. Your fellow zionists are embarresed by you, Jews the peoople you love hate you, christians want nothing to do with you. you are no one.

I’m a Muslim, 1.5 billion people share my beliefs. that is 1/4 of everyone on earth. How many people share your beliefs in christian Zionist? Not Catholics, not the Copts, not C if E. Who?

Who except for yourself and some silly people in America who give their money to very rich televengalists who spend it on Jews, mansions and prostitutes?

OK, Suhayl, let’s get to the point.

If you judge this according to Christian morality and religion, Hamas are in the wrong, because Israel is a state and Hamas isn’t, and because it is wrong to wage war to establish the religion of Islam, or any religion at all. There would be no blockade if only Hamas would lay down their arms and piss off.

If you judge this according to classical Islamic morality and religion, Hamas are in the right because they are Muslims in jihad to re-establish the rule of the Muslims in a part of Dar ul-Islam which has been wrested away by the sons of apes and pigs, and because the Day of Judgement will not come until the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them, and the Jews will hide behind the rocks and the trees. And the rock or tree will say, ‘O Muslim! O servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.’

If you don’t believe me, read the relevant parts of Ummdat as-Salik, which I have right here in front of me.

Arsalan, 1.5 billion people share your beliefs.

4.5 billion people don’t

“it on Jews, mansions and ” that was meant to be jets. Sorry. It could mean Jews, though if I considered Zionists to be Jews.

But I don’t.

I believe the real Jews are Antizionists who believe in God and their scriptures, and not atheists like Theodor Hertzel.

Michael Petek

You are in no position to use that argument. 4.5 billion have as little to do with you as we do.

No one has anything to do with you.

Go to a synagoge, and ask Jews whose beliefs they feel closer to, mine or yours.

Michael Petek no one wants anything to do with you.

you are alone!

Michael I really find you Christian Zionists very Funny.

Do you know why?

You support Zionist, and ideology founded by an atheist and you claim to do so for religious reasons!

You support Israel, a nation whose population, mostly consists of atheists, not only against Muslims, but also the native Christians!

You claim you are siding with the chosen people against the Muslim infidels, when the Jews have made their beliefs clear about who they are closer to.

What was it

Maimonides, the greatest Jewish philosipha said about Islam?

“The Ishmaelites are not at all idolaters; [idolatry] has long been severed from their mouths and hearts; and they attribute to God a proper unity, a unity concerning which there is no doubt.”, and his “, And what is their beliefs on you and whether or not you are an idolater?

I know, walk in to a synagogue and ask them?

Do you have the guts to do that, or are you too cowardly?

It does matter, Arsalan, that they admit it and that there’s a credible source (Gisha) to point to.

You could put on your extra polite hat and write to the BBC next time they put an article on their website saying “Israel says the blockade is necessary because of security concerns”.

We have a saying in German “Steter Tropfen hoehlt den Stein”, which roughly translates to “stone is worn down one drop (of water) after the other.” Get the BBC to change their articles and hundreds of thousands will start to see things in a different light. One letter might not do it, but hundreds could.

And btw I have started scrolling through your replies. When you write on this blog, I see your insults too, and I don’t like the name calling by you or anybody else here. It lowers the tone of what could otherwise be a mature and intelligent debate. Your words, your choice.

Wrong, Arsalan!

1.5 million Christians plus one God versus the rest.

Here’s how it works out.

(1) Hamas game-plan:

o9.0 JIHAD: “Jihad means to war against non-Muslims, and is etymologically derived from the word “mujahada, signifying warfare to establish the religion. And it is the less Jihad. As for the great Jihad, it is spiritual warfare against the lower self, (nafs), which is why the Prophet said as he was returning from Jihad.

“We have returned from the lesser jihad to the greater jihad.”

The scriptural basis for jihad, prior to scholarly consensus is such Koranic verses as:

(1) “Fighting is prescribed for you” (2:216)

(2) “Slay them wherever you find them” (4:89)

(3) “Fight the idolators utterly” (9:36)

and such hadiths as the one related by Bukhari and Muslim that the Prophet said:

Scholarly consensus by all reputable Islamic experts is sourced by scriptural basis for Jihad from such Qur’anic verses as: “Fighting is prescribed for you” (2:216), “Slay them wherever you find them” (4:89), “Fight the idolaters utterly” (9:36), and such Hadiths as the one related by Bukhari and Muslim that the Prophet said:

“I have been commanded to fight people until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and perform the prayer, and pay zakat. If they say it, they have saved their blood and possessions from me, except for the rights of Islam over them. And their final reckoning is with Allah.”

(2) Unfortunately for Hamas,God begs to differ:

“And I saw the heavens opened; and behold, a white horse, and he that sat thereon called Faithful and True; and in righteous he doth judge and make war. And his eyes are a flame of fire, and upon his head are many diadems; and he hath a name written which no one knoweth but he himself. And he is arrayed in a garment sprinkled with blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which are in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and pure. And out of his mouth proceedeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of God, the Almighty. And he hath on his garment and on his thigh a name written, KINGS OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.” (Revelation 19:11-16)

Hamas can lift the blockade by surrendering unconditionally.

I only insult people who insult. I am not like the Zionists. And my insults are not general like theirs.

They insult all Muslims. I have never insult all christians or all Jews.

And I will never do that.

When they insult a whole religion or a whole race. I insult them personally.

Or I insult idiologies and people who hold them.

And to the best of my knowledge I have only insulted Zionism and Nazism.

If you know of where I insulted a whole people, please for what they are, not what they do, please show me.

Mae

See what he just wrote?

I told you, he has just proved my point about him and his Nazism.

The German Nazis did the same thing, quoting from the Torah and the Talmud, interpreting it in their own way.

He is just a Nazi, and nothing more than a Nazi.

The only way to speak to a Nazi like that is to insult them. I am not going to give him a point by point rebutal. But if a Non-Nazi asked me what he posted in question form I may answer it.

this guy is not looking for answers , he is not looking for facts. He is just hatemongering, because he is nothing more than a Nazi

“That is because they were forced to because they made a very silly mistake.

They had released the unedited version of the exchange with out the addition of those words. So when those words were added to the next version, it was very easy to spot.”

Do you have that recording?

“The reason why the Zionists make such mistakes, is people like you don’t care about the facts. You support them blindly.

Whether the people on the boat said that or not you will still support them. Whether the Zionists admit to doctoring or not, you will still support them.”

As far as I can see there were two groups of people ready to make up their minds before anything happened. You were always destined to fall into one camp whatever happened and Michael Petek was always going to fall into the other.

Now, could you show me where Israel admitted to faking those statements because as far as I have seen they have stood by their claim that they were authentic.

“They were throwing their loyal dogs such as you a bone by fabricating it, so you can use it the way you do.

and you continue using it even after they admit it was fabricated.”

I haven’t “used” the recordings at all. I am merely asking you where it was admitted that they were fakes or fabrications.

I contend they never did “admit” they were fabrications.

I am not sure why it matters to you. If you think the shootings were unacceptable then does it matter to you that they said “Go back to Auschwitz?”

It seems you are determined to short-circuit the argument by claiming that Israel fabricated a case against the “peace activists” and concocted the voices on the recordings. Strangely, a few people have even claimed that a photograph of a few knives and sticks was also fabricated when such a photograph would have been utterly pointless (we KNOW the peace activists had sticks, chains and knives and used them).

Mae

Take a look at this,

Michael Petek did you get those quotes by reading the Quran or are you cut and pasting from a Zionist webpage?

If you have done some research in to it and know what they mean. Tell me what the Asbabul nazul of the verses are?

I know you are online now, so if you do not respond now it means you are just a mindless parot cutting and pasting while not knowing what you cut and past.

angrysoba

before I give you a link to the IDF press release.

Tell me, will it make a difference to you. If not, go find the link yourself.

If it will, and you will renounce all your Zionist beliefs as a result and join the correct side. I will give you the link.

So Angry which is it?

Michael Petek is what I call a cut and past Parrot. He cuts and past articles and quotes from the Quran without any knowldge of what they mean from zionist webpages.

He has no honour, if he did, he would find out what they mean and what they were refering to by finding out about the ashabul nuzul of the verses(when were they revealed and about what), but he didn’t because the true meaning is not important to him. All that is important to him is being a cut and past parrot, in the way Nazis are when they cut and past quotes other Nazis take from the Talmud.

I bet the Idiot hasn’t even read the chapter where the verses were taken from to get an idea about the context?

So have you?

Have you read the chapters that you are quoting from?

Have at least got the honour to do that?

No, you have no honour

you are nothing.

You are not a Christian, you are not even one tries to serve God.

You are Just a Nazi.

You are not loyal to God, you are loyal to the gang which you have chosen.

Your religion is not your pathway to serve God as it is for all true Muslims, Christians, Jews, Bodhists Sikhs. For you it is just a label, a us against them label. you have nothing to do with god or serving him in anyway. You are in no way a Christian, and Christianity has nothing to do with you.

Go to your zionism and your Israel, they are the gods you serve above God. And in the day of judgement see if your zionism and your Israel, your idols can save you from the buring pits of hell.

“Strangely, a few people have even claimed that a photograph of a few knives and sticks was also fabricated when such a photograph would have been utterly pointless (we KNOW the peace activists had sticks, chains and knives and used them).”

And the silliness a few days ago was that the ship was just about to turn back. After months and months of planning, a course charted from the minute of planning until being boarded – it’s now claimed that the ship was going to turn back.

I really can’t wait for the rest of what the conspiracy-thinking nuts have for us on this one.

“angrysoba

before I give you a link to the IDF press release.

Tell me, will it make a difference to you. If not, go find the link yourself.

If it will, and you will renounce all your Zionist beliefs as a result and join the correct side. I will give you the link.

So Angry which is it?”

Of course it makes a difference if they say they faked the recording.

As for the term “Zionist” that’s not even a term I use because it seems to have a thousand different meanings.

Arsalan: “I’m a Muslim, 1.5 billion people share my beliefs.”

Always with that threat.

Larry the liar only racist morons like you see it as a threat.

Humans see it as a statement of fact and nothing more.

Most of the planet isn’t bigotted like you and the other idiot.

You are the bigoted exception and not the rule.

So Larry, feel threatened and hide under your bed.

“And the silliness a few days ago was that the ship was just about to turn back.”

I saw that one too. I just can’t get my head around where they’re coming from most of the time let alone how they further their argument trying to show which direction the Mavi Marmara was heading.

Maybe it’s a hangover from the sinking of the Belgrano. They’ll deploy any possible argument there is to throw up dust.

Arsalan, apart from the typographical error I made in my previous posting, I have in front of me the parallel Arabic and English text of Ummdat as-Salik, a manual of Islamic law by Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri (d. 769/1368), translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller and certified by al-Azhar. Here is the exact text:

“O9.0 JIHAD

(O [the following is an excerpt from the commentary of Sheikh 'Umar Barakat]: Jihad means to war against non-Muslims, and is etymologically derived from the word mujahada, signifying warfare to establish the religion. And it is the lesser jihad. As for the greater jihad, it is spiritual warfare against the lower self (nafs), which is why the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said as he was returning from jihad,

“We have returned from the lesser jihad to the greater jihad.”

The scriptural basis for jihad, prior to scholarly consensus is such Koranic verses as:

(1) “Fighting is prescribed for you” (Koran 2:216);

(2) “Slay them wherever you find them” (Koran 4:89);

(3) “Fight the idolaters utterly” (Koran 9:36);

and such hadiths as the one related by Bukhari and Muslim that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said:

“I have been commanded to fight people until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and perform the prayer, and pay zakat. If they say it, they have saved their blood and possessions from me, except for the rights of Islam over them. And their final reckoning is with Allah”;

and the hadith reported by Muslim,

“To go forth in the morning or evening to fight in the path of Allah is better than the whole world and everything in it.”

Details concerning jihad are found in the accounts of the military expeditions of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), including his own martial forays and those on which he dispatched others. The former consist of the ones he personally attended, some twenty-seven (others say twenty-nine) of them. He fought in eight of them, and killed only one person with his noble hand, Ubayy ibn Khalaf, at the battle of Uhud. On the latter expeditions he sent others to fight, himself remaining at Medina, and these were forty-seven in number.)”

Now, Arslan, let me anticipate your next post:

“Aaaaaargh! Michael Petek, enemy of Islam! Enemy of Islam! Infidel! Infidel!”

angrysoba: “As for the term “Zionist” that’s not even a term I use because it seems to have a thousand different meanings.”

In addition to that, I think “Zionist” probably means something quite different in American English rather than British English. It sounds rather primitive, and when an American uses it, it pretty much tells you all that you need to know about that person (i.e., the speaker is probably a right-wing Jew-hating nut).

So, for instance, when Craig Murray expresses fear that “Zionist trolls” have invaded his website, to American ears he sounds like a Jew-baiter who’s doesn’t quite understand the true genesis of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

Oh, what’s the point. Michael and Arsalan will have their tennis-match, regardless.

Fact: Nine dead in the Eastern Med.

Fact: Gaza is under illegal blockade.

Fact: Israel continue to occupy territories which do not belong to it as delineated by the UN.

Fact: Israel continues to exert oppression of the Palestinians and to resist rational efforts to resolve the issue.

Fact: The USA continues to provide the Israeli state with massive amounts of money.

Fact: Via its military-industrial technology, the Israeli state is a major player in the generation of war. So is the UK state, incidentally. And Germany. And Russia. And of course, the grand-daddy of ‘em all, the USA.

Fact: Any rational discussion needs to focus the role of the Israeli state in US imperialism and not be directed at the Israeli people who are as variegated a bunch as the bloggers on this site.

All the rest – who said what, when, and all the stuff about photographs and so on – is persiflage, much of it generated by pro-Israeli media activists.

Facts.

Arsalan, why do we rarely hear from Christians “Do you realize you just offended X billion Christians?”

Always with the numbers with you people.

Israel as an instrument of U.S. imperialism is about as likely as me being a paid-for Zionist secret-agent man, which you have otherwise maintained.

Are Turkey and Egypt instruments of U.S. imperialism? They receive all sorts of aid. Are certain African governments instruments of Swedish imperialism?

Fact: Hamas will not back away from its desire to destroy Israel.

Fact: Every time your jihadist compatriots fire a rocket from Gaza, you weaken the elements in Israel who want to pursue peace and have the power to create peace.

Fact: Nentanyahu’s latest rise to power is greatly attributable to the behaviour of your suicide-loving culturally insane Muslim compatriots.

Angry the whole world except Israel and its US puppets see what happened for what it is. It is only Israel that it was all a conspiracy to Make Zionism look bad. So are you becoming a conspiracy theorist now?

I have spent too much time here, I need to get some work done. Bye Angry, out of the Zionists you are the least bad.

Michael Petek and his bigotry has made me come to that conclusion.

I think he does your cause more harm than good. So I suppose I should be thankful for his existence should I?

Craig Micheal Petek doing a black ups to make Zionists look bad.

“In addition to that, I think “Zionist” probably means something quite different in American English rather than British English. It sounds rather primitive, and when an American uses it, it pretty much tells you all that you need to know about that person (i.e., the speaker is probably a right-wing Jew-hating nut).”

It could be, but I honestly didn’t think much about the term until a few years ago and it always seemed to appear in a construction such as “Those Neo-con Zionist NeoZionNazi Zionist Neo-con warmongerererers” spat out like expletives. Because of a noticable correlation between the ejactulation of the term “Zionist” and great gobs of spittle I’ve found it very hard to take anyone who regularly uses the term seriously.

Suhayl Saadi

I’m not going to get in to a tennis match with him because I know that is his plan. Larry and Stephen tried the same thing when they first started pasting here.

He is trying to cut and past from the Quran to try and divert attention form the people killed.

That is a common Zionist tactic and a common Nazi Tactic.

When Nazis are question about Jews killed they cut and past from the talmud in the way MP is doing.

And if the Jew tries to refute their interpretation, attention is withdrawn from the matter at hand, the people killed.

Nazi trick, he uses it because he is a Nazi.

Michael, you want an interpretation of the verse go to a Mosque and ask what the verse was revealed concerning.

If you are just pasting to divert attention, it wont work.

You are a Nazi for supporting the people killed on the ship and those that die of starvation in Gaza. And that is where we will keep the attention

Anyway, I looked up the stuff about the recording.

The first was of the IDF warning the Mavi Marmara not to enter Gaza.

The second was an edited version of a completely different conversation in which the “Go back to Auschwitz!” thing was heard. There was never any question that it was edited even though there were questions over its authenticity. (As it happens I thought it sounded weird too).

Then the full transmission was released with all the silences and boring bits included. It was a conversation on an open channel which is why people on other boats could also be heard.

It really seems to be a weird thing to dispute though.

Larry the Liar so are you telling me you don’t support netanyahu?

So who do you support then?

Peace now?

“Larry the Liar so are you telling me you don’t support netanyahu?”

Correct. Now try wrapping your head around that one, you fucking Neanderthal.

Larry We already know you are a rabid Zionist.

Don’t try and pretend to be on the left wing.

we remember your earlier posts.

And the same goes for MP if you are intending to try the same argument.

Yes, the true Larry is back!!!!

“Now try wrapping your head around that one, you fucking Neanderthal.”

So are you going to give any more comments to convince us you belong the the peaceful side of Zionism that wants to achieve some sort of coexistence?

One that rejects Netanyaho?

Larry feel free to spread your bile about Muslims now. I’m going home. I have a wife too cook me food. I have children. I also have a paper to write and an fierce argument to prepare with my supervisor because he is one of the World’s greatest Scientists and I have just rubbished one of his theories.

You have until my meeting with him, to hatemonger without me calling you a Nazi.

Bye everyone, both Nazis and Humans.

I’m off to Eat, and then to Prepare for the day when someone I respect very much beats the shit out of me in front of an audience.

I laugh at the zionists because they are the stupidest people on earth. How can they take themselves seriously? Do they not realize how stupid they look to the rest of the world? Flailing about in blood and guts and for what. They have already lost. I’ll tell you what, we should build a wall around that foolish little country…

Mrs Average Vampires can not feed off their own blood, only two things are keeping Israel alive. The taxes Americans pay to it, and the money mobsters steal and launder in it.

Without it it would die.

Anonymous poster at 627pm on 11th June 2010 CE:

Good luck!

Of course, the regimes ruling Turkey and Egypt, and many other regimes as well, further the aims of US imperialism. How many military bases does the USA have around the world? Israel, however, like the UK, is part of the colonial mechanism; it is not a colonised state ruled by a ‘native elite’. It also gets enormous amounts of money from the USA, much more than any of the others. I’m no fan of Hamas. But unfortunately, Labour in Israel has been no better wrt the Palestinians, settlements, etc. than the other parties when they’ve ruled. Now there is a coalition govt with both components. There is a common strategy.

You know, I would like to see peace – I have no desire to see Israel or any other place destroyed – but also justice. Because without the latter, there will never be the former.

Suhayl Saadi

It doesn’t matter whether we are fans of hamas or not. What matters is the Palestinians are, they voted Hamas in.

And people who claim to believe in democracy should respect that.

I don’t claim to believe in democracy so I don’t respect that. Hamas were fools to take part in the elections. Any idiot knows democracy is a farce.

Muslims are only allowed to take part in elections to endorse the dictators America chooses, or in this case Israel chooses.

The Palestinians choose someone, which the Israelis didn’t choose, so Israel Punished the Palestinians, and used their American puppets to Punish the Palestinians some more, and the EU not to be left out joined in on the punishment. Because democracy is the right of the white man, the best the brown man can hope for is to endorse the choice of the white man by placing a cross next to his choice.

I knew this, from experience. It happens every time Muslims vote for someone the great white nations don’t like.

What did the Guardian say after the Algerian elections in support of the army?

“Sometimes you have to use undemocractic means to secure democracy”

which translates as “We need to show those Niggers whose boss!”.

And that is what Israel is doing in Gaza, showing the uppetty niggers whose boss, niggers who chose a spokesman who the master didn’t like.

But I do believe Israel would has still killed as many Palestinians if Hamas didn’t take part in the elections and Fatah ran against themselves and wan against themselves as how Israel would have proffered.They would have just used some other excuse for it.

And Angry, Larry and the new bastard would have supported the killings, but used Fatah as the excuse and not Hamas.

As a Christian, Michael doesn’t reflect what I believe. Michael, stay in the New Testament and we’ll make it through this I pray. You do remember to Love Your Enemy. I agree it is extremely difficult and Chritianity has always been a theory never tested. It seems hate has got us no where in history and only Forgiveness and Love can get us through this. Lay off the self righteouness, none of us are God. Trust me I’m a sinner like everybody else. It seems pretty simple to me if we condemn injustice no matter who then we can work on Justice for everybody with the help of our Lord Jesus Christ You can Love someone and still hold them morally accountable. But if you guys insist on staying in the Old Testament ignoring the New Convenant of our Lord Jesus Christ with his fellow believers being the New Spiritual Israeli then I’m afraid the promise spoken of our Lord Jesus Christ that

” Put up again thy sword into its place; for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword” will apply to you and your ilk. I pray not.

The Israelis should have sunk all 6 ships.

Suhayl wrote: “You know, I would like to see peace – I have no desire to see Israel or any other place destroyed – but also justice. Because without the latter, there will never be the former.”

Alas, that is not how it worked in South Africa and Northern Ireland. Resolution involved an amnesty and letting all sectarian gangsters and killers OUT of jail. The price of peace perhaps is forgiving the unforgivable.

Maybe, sandcrab. I’m not sure about the Truth and Reconciliation thing in S. Africa. I think capitalism – US hegemony was the price. And we see the results of that, and many other endemic ills now. Desmond Tutu is an amazing guy though. Very personally generous, as well as politically astute. He’s not afraid to stand up and criticise the ANC.

Conrad, God be with you, you’re a good guy, thanks for being around.

‘Me’, you’re hilarious, that’s really funny. Like Oliver Hardy.

Conrad, Michael has nothing to do with Christianity. He is not Christian.

He belongs is an armageddonite, also known as the Church of the AntiChrist.

He serves the AntiChrist not Christ in the mistaken belief serving the AntiChrist will speed up the rapture.

What they state is, “Jesus will come to deal with the AntiChrist”. So they choose to serve the Antichrist, support him and strengthen him so Jesus will come sooner to deal with him.

They support Israel unconditionally because they believe Israel will be ruled by the antiChrist.

They think if they do that, they can change sides in the last minute when Jesus arrives and enter eternal life.

But the fact is, they are only guaranteeing their eternal damnation by such a foolish act.

They can not serve God by serving the devil. This fact is obvious to everyone, but they blind themselves to it, just as they blind themselves to the evils of Israel starving people in gaza and murdering people trying to feed them.

“Maybe, sandcrab. I’m not sure about the Truth and Reconciliation thing in S. Africa.”

Me neither, and in NI the timely irish-american withdrawal of financial support for violent republicanism cannot be underestimated. But sincere conflict resolution studies have stressed the importance of placing the wrongs of hatred and fear in the past. The problematic parties have much different views on justice than they have on peace. They are separate goals.

-

This video brilliantly records the courageous and noble stand of incredible peace activists.

The mayhem to follow in the next section of the video account where the aggressors avenge the activists physical resistence to the illegal boarding will communicate the brutal military reality of the attack even more effectively.

“The mayhem to follow in the next section of the video account…”

Sorry the 1 hour version is up now and the 15 minutes was it edited down.

http://www.culturesofresistance.org/gaza-freedom-flotilla

Ken O’Keefe (!!)

http://pulsemedia.org/2010/06/06/ken-okeefe-we-the-defenders-of-the-mavi-marmara/

“I have for many years understood that we, people of conscience, are the true holders of power in this world. Frustratingly however we have largely relinquished that power and failed to reach our full potential. Our potential to create a better world, a just world. Nonetheless I have conspired with others of like mind to reveal and exercise our true power. In 2002 I initiated the TJP Human Shield Action to Iraq because I knew that the invasion of Iraq had been planned well in advance, that it was part of a ‘Global Spectrum Dominance’ agenda as laid out by the Project For A New American Century.”

…

“When I was asked, in the event of an Israeli attack on the Mavi Mamara, would I use the camera, or would I defend the ship? I enthusiastically committed to defence of the ship. Although I am also a huge supporter of non-violence, in fact I believe non-violence must always be the first option. Nonetheless I joined the defence of the Mavi Mamara understanding that violence could be used against us and that we may very well be compelled to use violence in self-defence.

I said this straight to Israeli agents, probably of Mossad or Shin Bet, and I say it again now, on the morning of the attack I was directly involved in the disarming of two Israeli Commandos. This was a forcible, non-negotiable, separation of weapons from commandos who had already murdered two brothers that I had seen that day. One brother with a bullet entering dead center in his forehead, in what appeared to be an execution. I knew the commandos were murdering when I removed a 9mm pistol from one of them. I had that gun in my hands and as an ex-US Marine with training in the use of guns it was completely within my power to use that gun on the commando who may have been the murderer of one of my brothers. But that is not what I, nor any other defender of the ship did. I took that weapon away, removed the bullets, proper lead bullets, separated them from the weapon and hid the gun. I did this in the hopes that we would repel the attack and submit this weapon as evidence in a criminal trial against Israeli authorities for mass murder.”

Shocking the video released by the idf immediately after they took over the ship turns out to be their training excercise.

It was not the mavi marmara. Those huge flags draped over the side, missing, the huge sign mavi marmara, missing. all activists wearing balaclavs – which they weren’t

seems like israel been telling more porkeys http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrS_jyRoazA

sandcrab, thanks for posting that. What a powerful statement that is from an honourable man. It is humbling to read. A blast of clear truth scatters all the lies before it.

I would have cried no tears if he would have used it.

Just as the ZioNazis would have cried no tears if it was used against him.

Youre very welcome Suhayl sir. I could have been clearer thats a quote from a much longer statement by him at the link. The guy is my American hero now.

Hey Loony form St Louis here is another American citizen being murdered by the Israelis, they must entitled to execute US citizens as they are your allies. I am sure You approve you Traitor? Did your tax dollars pay for these bullets?

Video Israeli soldiers murdering Furkan Dogan 19 years old American citizen

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article25672.htm

What are those bloodstains supposed to prove, exactly?

Posted by: Michael Petek at June 11, 2010 12:55 PM

Michael, haven’t you realised yet that anyone who questions Craig’s version of events has to be a Zionist troll? The video neither proves nor disproves Craig’s version of events – just like the photo of the Gaza “child smuggler”.

Nevertheless I’d really like to read his version of the events in Samarkand. You may have thought that, with him being rich and privileged, he’d be happy to let a poor man read it for free. But he’s too busy worrying about Zionist intelligence agents rattling his back door.

It’s not the first time he’s suffered from mysterious door-rattlings, as anyone who’s read “The Orangemen of Togo” will know.

some thing sky news and BBC news dont want the people to see, thank god for the inter-net shocking absolutly shocking, and this hamas crap and iran this and iran that, i am sorry that dont wash no more people are sick and tired of hearing it whilst the IDF kill at will and indiscriminatly, and any one they disagree with or dont like they pass them of as being anti-semites or if you happen to be a muslim they accuse you of being a terroist or linked to a terroist organisation the people are sick of these lies, accusations and cover ups and our media is complicit in all this….

Hullo Craig,

Are you aware that that grainy black and white footage of Israelis being beaten with rods was faked? The Israelis filmed it all beforehand on another ship entirely, mostly likely on the Mavi Marmara’s sister ship, identical in ever way except for a few telling details. It’s not for no reason they combed the ship and stole every recording device.

Don’t argue just go here -

http://whatdefuck.com/news/idf_video/newspage.html

Scroll down to the animated gif.

Does it get any more damning than that?

Gosh, what’s going on? I know I posted early in the day there, but over an hour has passed and not a single Israel-uber-alles spammer has piled in to scream bloody murder. What’s up boys? Waiting for Megaphone

“Gosh, what’s going on? I know I posted early in the day there, but over an hour has passed and not a single Israel-uber-alles spammer has piled in to scream bloody murder.”

Another nobody with delusions of grandeur.

“Are you aware that that grainy black and white footage of Israelis being beaten with rods was faked?”

Faked – just like the moon landings!

Look, here’s some of the early video before the helicopters appeared. It looks like the activists are using sling shots and weilding the sticks just as could be seen in the “smuggled” video of the activists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlE7kmSCf9I

And then there is this photography that definitely shows beaten Israeli soldiers and with some activists holding knives.

http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/critiques/new/Special_Analysis_Fauxtography_-_Reuters_Caught_Again.asp

As the Israeli propagandists might say ….

“From this footage we can clearly see attempts to fire missiles at the peaceful commando helicopters”

Neil Barker, are you insinuating that Craig is making-up the events he described in his post? If so, why not simply say so?

Instead, you taunt him with ejaculations about his supposed wealth (is this to try an alienate the ‘everyman’ readership?) and rhetorically request that he send you a book because of your supposed poverty. This has become your weapon of choice, it seems.

When you have no argumentation left wrt the subject at hand, you seem to resort to inferring either that someone is lying or that they are mad. You did not respond to my questions in an earlier post. That is your prerogative. But I think it is a little ironic, then, to insinuate – as you clearly do – that Craig is being mendacious.

Although the veracity of photographic evidence clearly is of import, the central issue here resides and depends not on this or that photograph, but on what actually happened. Nine people murdered in international waters. That is why Ken O’Keefe’s statement is so powerful. It cuts through the distraction and speculation. Israeli soldiers pointed their guns at civilians’ heads and pulled the trigger.

Suhayl Saadi

Looks like the bastards have called for reinforcements.

All the old trols are back and we have some new ones now.

Hatari

Larry the liar is not a fellow American and not from St. Louis.

The timings of his post means if he was he would be posting at 2AM and sleeping during the day.

The timings of his posts indicate he is two hours ahead of GMT, Israel!

Lost of anonymous posts coming-in, I note, on cue as always, plus the usual attempts to assign any critique of Israeli or US policy to insanity. Fascinating, but transparent.

When will the threats resume, one wonders? Will “something horrible” happen to one of us? Should we be afraid, very afraid? Will the wicked witch of the west come down to cast spells on us?

Ah, where is the spirit of Woodstock?

Suhayl Saadi

When all this dies down, some of the trols will go away leaving one or two to keep an eye on thingswhile supporting all things evil.

Then when Israel does something, which the follish assume will be the straw that breaks the camels back and turns the west against Israel, all the old trols will be back here togeather with some new ones.

This will repeat.

They are accusing Turkey of whipping up jihad, even the Guardian is prone to these worldwide excretions of angst and guilt by a very unsecure Israel and its diaspora.

Israels machinations around the world during the last two weeks, shutting up news agencies, pilloring old women like Helen Walters and calling her all names under the sun, trying to avert the UN security council decisions, badgering the US to support their act of war in the mediaterranian, doctoring of communications, cashing in of journalists credit cards due to lack of Pay in the IDF, no doubt and much more.

Israel is still patrolling the gulf of Hormuz with two missile destroyers, so what will happen when Iran is sending in Frigattes to guarantee the safety of aid flotilla’s?

What will Israel do when these war ships patrol international waters, perfectly legitamit, off their coast?

“Helen Walters”

Go back to Germany!

Ingo I’ll tell you what will happen, The Zionists will shout Antisemitism and make it all go away.

From Noam Chomsky:

http://www.zcommunications.org/the-real-threat-aboard-the-freedom-flotilla-by-noam-chomsky

From Amira Hass:

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/not-by-cement-alone-1.295036

The fabricated IDF radio communication with the Mavi Marmara says, “don’t forget 9/11 guy”

This was in fact a veiled warning to America to give her absolute backing for the Israeli engagement.

It is the saddest fact on this earth (for all Americans and the Western world) that Israel has documented evidence that can prove there was foreknowledge of the attacks on the World Trade Center.

If this proof surfaced now (as opposed to 100 years time) then the balance of power will change forever.

This is why Larry is here with his near psychotic denials.

This is what really is at stake.

But truth cannot ever be smothered.

“The fabricated IDF radio communication with the Mavi Marmara says, “don’t forget 9/11 guy”

This was in fact a veiled warning to America to give her absolute backing for the Israeli engagement.”

Tee hee hee!

“It is the saddest fact on this earth (for all Americans and the Western world) that Israel has documented evidence that can prove there was foreknowledge of the attacks on the World Trade Center.

If this proof surfaced now (as opposed to 100 years time) then the balance of power will change forever.”

So, you know there is documented evidence which will shake the world but being a spoilsport you’ll not tell us what it is, right?

Mark

For knowledge or even direct involvement, documents or even audios, Videos and confessions will never shack up the world.

All Israel will do is cry antisemitism a few times and it will all just go away.

All Israel’s supporters will do is deny until Israel admits it and then belittle

after that, stating over countries have done worse. They will demand that Non-Muslims all unite to destroy Islam instead of commenting on What Israel admitted doing. And if people don’t obey by ending their criticism of Israel, they will shout antisemitism to make it end.

And shouting antisemitism always works.

Why do I say this?

Because this is what happened every time.

And Israel has done worse than 911, admitted it, and made everything go away by saying antisemitism.

So they will loss nothing by producing documents.

People like Michael Petek and Larry support Zionism unconditionally.

Right!

At the moment I call it delicately nuanced policy of ambiguity.

Watch this space anon.

Oh dear… I know Larry is going to accuse me of being a looney conspiracy theorist but I have come to the conclusion that the video the IDF released of the assault on the Mavi Mamara was fabricated in advance.

See here http://tiny.cc/x1e0d

The animated gif certainly looks as if it were a different ship to the Mavi Marmara

I was not entirely convinced so I hunted down some pictures of the Mavi Marmara next to its sister ship the Tdi Karadeniz, and yes the IDF video looks as if it was shot on the Tdi Karadeniz

The Tdi Karadeniz was recently sold to a Maltese company and renamed ‘Dream’ a more close up picture is available at

tiny.cc/6ti10

If you compare this picture with the IDF film http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LulDJh4fWI then at 1:01 into the film you can clearly see a radar dome on the upper deck that is absent on the Mavi Marmara, but clearly visible on ‘Dream’/'Tdi Karadeniz’

Could the Israelis have been cynical enough to have manufactured a confrontation just so they could present themselves as the victims with fake footage to back it up? It beggars belief, but I cannot think of any other interpretation.

(Except maybe those sneaky Turks erected a fake radar dome on the Mavi Marmara during the voyage to discredit Israel)

Sorry I missed out a picture of Mavi Marmara moored alongside Tdi Karadeniz

http://tiny.cc/c8eku

Before anyone else does so I shall correct myself. I have since found another picture of Mavi Marmara with a radar dome in the same position as on Dream.

But the question still remains. Why isn’t the ships name visible along the side of the upper deck where it should be?

Steering the world back to the course of mutual recognition and respect and away from heightened tensions can take many forms. A parallel can be drawn between the murder of humanitarians delivering aid and the cruel deaths of workers in the World Trade Center. Both events have left physical and emotional scars on survivors, those who lost loved ones, the psyche of Gaza and New York and the nations of Palestine and America.

Both events have made most of us look internally, to ask ourselves what it means to be human.

It has made us sensitive to violence as a violation of human dignity. It is a desecration of the image of God that lives on the face of every human being.

The flying of missiles in buildings is the violence of intimidation, the ‘shock & awe’ catalyst for fear and ultimate subterfuge of American people.

The blockade of Gaza is structural violence. It is not the violence of bombs and bullets until the killing of peace activist aboard a ship filled with humanitarian aid on its way to Gaza with intent to break the blockade. Yet, it is violence against the people of Gaza nonetheless.

Israel said the WTC deaths were good for her and benefited the American struggle with Iraq.

Israel says the deaths in Gaza from lack of basic necessities are necessary for its national security, to keep materials that can be used to make weapons. Israel sees the democratically elected Hamas as a terrorist organization bent on its destruction. Hamas says it sees Israel as an occupying power and as an oppressor.

The cycle of violence continues.

Moving away from violence means we must develop a strategy together that is able to counter lies from Israel or threats from those with charged allegations or extreme views of violence.

Polling data continues to show that nearly 40% of American society holds a negative view of Islam by associating it with violence. However, many who were surveyed admitted that they hardly knew anything about the religion or its followers. This is a clear indication that something significant and far reaching needs to be done to develop mutual understanding and respect.

The Cordoba Initiative to build a mosque at ground zero is a good start in the right direction because it can show to the world a bonding of two minds irrespective of the painful memories.

Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, founder and Chairman of the initiative, has a long history of opposing violence, reaching out across religious lines and through developing mutually progressive programs committed to bringing Americans, Muslims and non, together.

Muslims want to play a role in “steering the world back to the course of mutual recognition and respect and away from heightened tensions”. This is the time where we can show the international community how Britain exemplifies the highest global standard of religious freedom for the world to follow.

“I have come to the conclusion that the video the IDF released of the assault on the Mavi Mamara was fabricated in advance”.

Yes, the absence of the ship’s name in the appropriate place is a bit of a giveaway, ditto the absence of the huge Turkish flag draped down the side. Note too that in the Israeli video the aid-workers attempting to repel the attack are wearing balaclavas; I haven’t seen a single balaclava in the footage shot from onboard the ship.

It’s probably a video of an Israeli rehearsal/training exercise.

You conspiracy nuts are in such immense denial that I can’t imagine anything more entertaining.

I believe the type of mosque they are setting up is what will remove the bigotry and ignorance from typical Americans. Zionist know this thats why they want to oppose its construction.

Mosques are usually just places where people pray, and than get out.

Nothing happens inside them.

No talks, no lessons. Just go in, pray, get out, until the next prayer.

What these guys are making isn’t really a mosque. It is a massive community centre, with swimming pool, confrence centre. the mosque is just a tiny part of it. It even has a prayer room for non-Muslims!

So people of every religion will go in to use everything in there, there, meet the Muslims who go there to pray or use everything else there. People will know about each other. And see each other as people and not the other.

And people like Larry and MP will get very upset and cry antisemitism!!!!!!!, until they are blue in the face, but only fellow no hopers and hate mongers will listen.

Mark Golding: “It is the saddest fact on this earth (for all Americans and the Western world) that Israel has documented evidence that can prove there was foreknowledge of the attacks on the World Trade Center.”

That’s right, folks! The JOOOOOOOOOOS did 911. In fact Borat said so in his movie!

Larry and michael are what we in Islam calls Satans amoungst humanity.

They do nothing but tell people to hate each other.

That is there be all and end all. they are all about hate.

They are hate mongers and nothing more.

They don’t do what they do due to love for Israel, they do what they do due to hate for everyone including Israel.

They want war, they want suffering they want starvation.

Not just on this issue but on every issue.

they are evil little trols.

Just take a look at how often they post?

If they have so much time to be online, where when are they with family and friends?

Never!

That is because they are evil and give no time to family, and no one ever wants to be friends with such people.

This is how this works:

Suhayl Saadi: The Jews did 911.

Me: Well, that’s just plain anti-Semitic. And insane.

Suhayl Saadi: (loudly crying) Bwwwwaaaaaaaaaa! I can’t criticize Israel! Bwwwwaaaaaaaaaa! The secret agent men are out to get me! Bwwwwaaaaaaaaaa! I can’t let go of my crazy religion! Bwwwaaaaaaaaaa! I’m a failed doctor!

“You conspiracy nuts are in such immense denial that I can’t imagine anything more entertaining”.

Denial of what?

Larry not Jews, they are on our side:

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com

Zionists like you.

It is you who do all evil not Jews, they are on our side!

Denial of the truth that those IDF soldiers were attacked with sticks and other weapons as they landed on the ship. Even your martyr-moron Muslim “peace activists” on the ship don’t claim this.

Jesus, can’t you give Muslim martyrs any credit for their work?

“…Israel has documented evidence that can prove there was foreknowledge of the attacks on the World Trade Center”

Actually there’s pretty conclusive proof already in the public domain of Israeli foreknowledge. That however is not quite the same thing as proof of being the perpetrator, for which I can find little clear evidence.

“Actually there’s pretty conclusive proof already in the public domain of Israeli foreknowledge.”

Oh, fuck off, MJ, you have no conclusive proof that the Jews knew of 911.

You 911 truthers make this so easy.

Arsalan: “The timings of his posts indicate he is two hours ahead of GMT, Israel!”

Actually, I’m in Seattle, you fucking insane moron (yes, Suhayl, your Muslim compatriot here is clearly insane). I went to bed last night around midnight and I woke up at about 8:30. I don’t know how you managed to feed my travel and sleep schedule into your Muslim jihadist insanity, but with your posting I’m starting to familiarize myself a little more with the insane thinking of the 19 suicidal crazy Muslim 911 hijackers.

“Denial of the truth that those IDF soldiers were attacked with sticks and other weapons as they landed on the ship”

I certainly do not deny that. Eyewitnesses say so and the genuine footage shows it also. Passengers and crew are of course entitled to use reasonable force to repel unlawful and uninvited raiders attempting to board a ship in international waters, so what’s the big deal?

“…you have no conclusive proof that the Jews knew of 911″.

There’s the small matter of the Mossad folk caught filming the attacks.

You’re the one in denial Larry. Your ignorance of the evidence makes it very easy for us. It’s a turkey shoot.

May I suggest, Larry-from-Seattle, that the reason people approach your posts the way they tend to do is because you have adopted this kind of aggressive tone with everyone, right from the start. You clearly absolutely despise anyone with a Muslim name. That’s fine. I think if you hate everyone or almost everyone – with a Muslim name, you ought simply to say so and be done with it. What is this about ‘compatriots’? You have 300 million-plus compatriots, so what? I attempted to have a conversation with you awhile back – and did so repeatedly because I felt that some of the things you said were worthy of discourse. But you responded with either complete silence or else a dismissive and frankly arrogant attitude. So, yes, I felt that perhaps you had an ‘agenda’. You know, even people with whom I disagree on many things – Angrysoba, Alfred, Apostate and ebeven Michael Petek – seem able to engage in reasonably civilised discourse from time-to-time. You, on the other hand, seem unable, or unwilling, to do so.

I really don’t know why I am bothering typing this, but I am.

Anyway, have a good day.

So let us steer all the ‘hate mongers’ here:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/06/obama-to-back-anti-israel-resolution-at-un-next-week.html

..to form a focus point that can ultimately only turn on elusive switch that moves us on to another level of understanding.

Proof that Jews didn’t kill anyone on the ship.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RjnvQHWyLE

The people who murdered on the ship were Zionists.

It was Larry who killed people on the ship not Jews.

Jews worship God, Zionists like Larry worships a flag, zionists like michael worship Zionists like Larry.

Suhayl Saadi why do you give that Zionist bitch the time of day?

He is just a hate monger like the other bastards.

And Larry the liar I have already shown you on another thread why you can’t be anywhere in America. So unless you are going to put up an American phone number that I can phone to confirm it. You are Larry the Zionist Liar living on stolin Palestinian land as your post timings indicate.

Larry (not from St Louis) ‘Jihad watch’ is calling you – the site is well named. Look at the reflections of yourself in the posters – “anti-semitic Obama.”

“We as a people have striven to forge a new way of thinking, a new way of life, a new and great Country. Our strength was in each other and our fortune came from our ability to adapt to the present and look towards the future.”

You have become polarised Larry – the pioneering spirit has been lost – you are left with ‘Jihad watch’ – go there – Robert Spencer will ease your pains.

Larry not from seattle, you calculated the times zones wrongly, and picked a place to the west instead of the east. Making it less likely that you are where you say you are, not more likely.

You should have said somewhere like New York on the East coast.

You not just a liar, you are a very stupid liar, who doesn’t try and make his lies convincing.

I think it is very hard for Zionists to make their lies convincing due to habit.

You say lies to prove your case about Israel, the lies don’t need to be convincing because when ever people prove you are lying you scream antisemitism to shut them up.

What is it when you say when people prove what you say about any issue is wrong?

I know I will cut and past:

“That’s right, folks! The JOOOOOOOOOOS did 911. In fact Borat said so in his movie!”

It isn’t surprising that you don’t try and make you lies convincing when all you have to do to stop people questioning you is to scream antisemitism?

So Larry, do you lie when you say you are from St. Louis, or do you lie when you say you are from Seattle?

I believe you lie all the time.

You are just like the liars Micheal puts up, the fake Ex Muslims. People who claim to have converted from Islam to Christianity but can’t even pronounce the word Muslim.

http://www.fakeexmuslims.com/biographyoferguncaner.htm

The thing about Liars like you is you are spotted due to the contradictions in your statements.

But you don’t care, Israel doesn’t care and the Fake Ex Muslims Micheal is in love with don’t care.

Why?

When Israel is found out, Israel shouts antisemitism, when you are spotted you accuse the spotter of being a conspiracy theorist, and when Fake Ex Muslims are spotted their Evangelical employers use their lawyers to remove their contradictory statements from the Internet.

You are all liars, you know you are liars, we know you are liars.

So lets just stop this game. If you want to support Israel, do so. But do so with the truth.

Don’t use lies to try and be convincing, because it just discredits all else you say.

So when you say you are from Seattle, and from St Louis, we don’t become convinced of Zionism, we just believe you are a liar. Just as Muslims don’t become convinced of Christianity when a fake Ex Muslims claims to be born in Istanbul in one video and claim to be

be born in Sweden in another, while not being able to even pronounce the word Muslim.

That might convince your sponsors, but it doesn’t convince us.

Here’s an interesting piece, from Lauren Booth (half-sister of Cherie, of course):

http://www.countercurrents.org/booth110610.htm

Let me excerpt this one paragraph from the article by Lauren Booth which I just posted, above. I think it is of the essence (and please, before anyone decides to do this, character-assassinating Lauren Booth will make no difference to the truth):

“Quickly another passenger removed a white t-shirt from a bag and used it as a white flat of surrender. When gun shots rang out, greater numbers fell. It was clear calls for mercy were to be ignored. That a shoot to kill policy was in place.”

No more hiding-places.

“Larry not from seattle, you calculated the times zones wrongly, and picked a place to the west instead of the east. Making it less likely that you are where you say you are, not more likely.

You should have said somewhere like New York on the East coast.”

Arsalan,

You really are a stupid person.

The Pacific Northwest is quite gorgeous, btw. My first time out here. But a stupid black bird (maybe a raven?) just ate my wild salmon sandwich.

“So when you say you are from Seattle, and from St Louis, we don’t become convinced of Zionism, we just believe you are a liar.”

People often travel. Sometimes for business, sometimes for fun. Next week, if I say that I’m in Boston, it’s not because I’ve moved to Boston.

Don’t you ever take a holiday, Arsalan?

Actually, having just got back to my computer, I should have read all of the messages … apparently all of you think that when I wrote “I’m in Seattle” that I meant “I live in Seattle.”

Your standards of evidence are hilarious. You people will believe anything if you want to believe it.

Suhayl: you’re in denial. It’s obvious what happened. An al-Qaeda warship containing nuclear weapons and hundreds of fanatical muslim terrorists, under the personal control of bin Laden, sailed illegally into the port Ashdod. The terrorists then brazenly and without provocation attacked an Israeli helicopter that was delivering fancy cakes to someone’s auntie. Bin Laden and his wild-eyed terrorists then viciously slaughtered 19 defenceless IDF commandos who were armed with nothing but AK 47 sub-machine guns.

If you don’t believe that then you’re an anti-semitic moronic nutjob. Just ask Larry.

MJ

You might have meant it as a joke but

You might have meant it as a joke, but Micheal actually said something very similar to that. I can’t be bothered to scroll up and look for it but it was something like “Muslims killed a bunch of non-Muslims, disguised the dead as Muslims took photos of them with Muslim women crying around them”

And Larry carry on lying. I think it has become such a habit now that you can’t stop. you just can’t stop.

If you are telling the truth. Just put a phone number down here, the area code will tell us where you are. I will phone it to check it is true.

I worked in a morgue for 3 years.

that is not paint on the walls. it is blood. half a pint of blood looks like 10 pints as it flows everywhere. paint doesn’t.

MJ – ha! That’s a good one! A good satire.

Larry, you do enjoy playing hard-to-get, don’t you? What a tease you are.

The raven must’ve been an ornithological terrorist sent by the late, unlamented Bin Laden. Or maybe it was an FBI raven.

Yes, the NW is beautiful, so I’ve heard. Enjoy the rest of your sandwiches. Perhaps you ought to spend less time at your computer and more out in the open air, feeling that Pacific breeze and opening your mind.

On which note, here’s a song for everyone. The great John Cipollina, live. If one could play guitar like this…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D79ujliNh4Q&feature=related

‘The results of the Global Peace Index (GPI) for 2010′

Note: Israel ranks # 144 of the 149 countries ranked.

http://www.visionofhumanity.org/wp-cont … Report.pdf

http://www.visionofhumanity.org/wp-content/uploads/PDF/2010/2010%20GPI%20Results%20Report.pdf

Two little prezzies for Larry from another planet;

http://www.hybridstates.com/2010/06/testimony-of-rogue-commando-who-killed-six-civilian-activists-further-undermines-official-idf-story/

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/09/turkish-doctor-describes-treating-israeli-commandos-during-raid/

INSTITUTE FOR ECONOMICS AND PEACE – 2010

Israel: 144th place

Score: 3.019

Israel’s score improved in 2009, leading to a rise of 2 places to 144th in the 2010 GPI.

A fall in fatalities associated with external conflicts in 2009 reflected a much more peaceful year on the Gaza and Lebanon fronts, with a tense truce holding between the Islamist group, Hamas, (which has controlled Gaza since June 2007) and Israeli forces.

Easing domestic tensions also triggered a drop in the likelihood of terrorist acts and a sense of lower levels of criminality in Israeli society.

Nevertheless, Israel remains in a formal “state of war” with its northern neighbours, Syria and Lebanon, and relations remain tense with much of the Arab world and Iran, with an ongoing risk of further military conflict with Hamas or Hizbullah, the Lebanese Shia group.

Israel’s GPI measures of internal

conflict and relations with neighbouring

countries both receive scores of 4, unchanged from last year.

Partly offsetting these improvements

are an increasing likelihood of violent

demonstrations, amid Palestinian anger

over the continued construction of Jewish settlements in East Jerusalem and the West Bank, which were endorsed by the new prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu. There was also a substantial fall in the level of respect

for human rights to a score of 5, although this indicator refers to 2008 and so includes the incursion of the Israel Defence Force into Gaza ?” a conflict that resulted in an estimated

1,417 Palestinian casualties (official Israeli sources put the death toll at 1,166) and 13 Israeli fatalities.

Military expenditure rose marginally to 7.3% of GDP although the GPI score remained unchanged at 3. The IDF is highly capable and sophisticated

and Israel remains a major manufacturer of arms; exports rose in 2008-09 according to the most recent figures from the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, further contributing to a very high score for Israel’s measures of militarisation.

‘Uzi Dayan is the nephew of Moshe Dayan’

http://www.jpost.com/Headlines/Article.aspx?id=177710

Since I’m still in a generous mood, further enlightening for Larry, to try to cure him of his polar reality condition, here’s another;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWVSsI_mSzA

Mark Golding – Children of Iraq

I think Israel should have been given a Zillion more points for being, lying, hypocritical, mass-murdering psychopaths.

‘Military expenditure rose marginally to 7.3% of GDP’

Did they count the billions GIVEN to Israel for militarisation by the USA ?.

After the grovelling arse licking by Tony Blair during and after his Tuesday meeting with the criminal Netanyahu, his sister-in-law Lauren Booth, gave him an arse kicking after Blair went on Channel 10 and agreed he supported the Israeli action to murder the occupants of a supply ship heading for Gaza.

“Gaza is a concentration camp,” she fumes. “Why am I using an inflammatory term? Because underplaying the situation in Gaza and being sensible has done them no good at all.

“That’s not the same as mincing with the truth ?” it’s that the situation there has been underplayed for too long.

“Gaza isn’t a prison ?” a prison is somewhere guilty people go, somewhere people are locked up for the good of society.”

“Sixty-one per cent of the population there are children. They are not prisoners, they’ve had no due process ?” it is more like an internment camp.”

“They are being tortured for their race or, the latest excuse, their political opinions. That ?” under the Oxford English Dictionary definition ?” is a concentration camp and I want people to be shocked by it, I want them to see the civilian life there.”

“If they cannot escape, they’ve got soldiers around them, people keeping food from them ?” what else is it?”

Good on ya Lauren – you can come for tea anytime.

I wonder if Cherie agrees with her?

“Actually, I’m in Seattle, you fucking insane moron”

“Liberal Larry” Chomstein himself. He who thinks he can satirize the American ‘left’ and entertain very-low-IQ right-wingers with references to JOOOOOOOOS and FREE RUBBERS and his own testicles. Not a subtle bone in his body.

http://blamebush.typepad.com/about.html

So this is where you came after Bush left office. Got tired of doing the garden and watching the TeeVee. And you’re not in Seattle either. You’re in California.

Go have a browse, people. You’ll find very nasty stuff about Muslims there.

And gays, and anyone on the “left” (as they understand it in the USA.)

http://blamebush.typepad.com/

Larry is staunch GOP.

“And you’re not in Seattle either. You’re in California”

How do you know that?

Yeah, OMG, how do you know that?

Is this true Larry? Personally I don’t buy it, having looked at that site. But I could be wrong.

uh oh what slander! The true larry bin louis will be furious when he sees this.

It’s a definite impingement on his branding MJ

I have to admit that I’m lost. Is that typepad site supposed to be my site?

“Yes, the absence of the ship’s name in the appropriate place is a bit of a giveaway, ditto the absence of the huge Turkish flag draped down the side. Note too that in the Israeli video the aid-workers attempting to repel the attack are wearing balaclavas; I haven’t seen a single balaclava in the footage shot from onboard the ship.

It’s probably a video of an Israeli rehearsal/training exercise.”

I think this is just more paranoia. There are a lot of ships flags billowing around on the deck of that ship but none of the designs on them can be read or seen. It seems more likely to me that the cameras don’t pick up such things but instead pick up depth. Anything painted on a flat piece of canvas just wouldn’t show up whereas the contours of the ship and the people would.

I don’t know anything about that kind of technology though.

It looked like they were wearing gasmasks, which we definitely know some of the activists were wearing. I don’t know how you can dismiss the fact that some of them may have worn balaclavas also. We also know from various other videos and photographs that there was fighting with sticks and knives so if it was faked then they predicted the fighting with seer-like accuracy.

Anyway, is anyone from the flotilla actually accusing the IDF of having faked the video?

Larry is a neocon-supporting, Zionist-supporting, gay-bashing, liar, who thinks he can write satire.

He considers himself above all of you and intellectually above Chomsky. He will deny being the author of BlameBush, that monument to right-wing ‘humour’.

More likely, he’ll do an Israel on it and neither confirm nor deny. Watch his language carefully.

Actually, the Chomstein site is quite funny, in a Jerry ‘Gobshite’ Sadowitz kind of way, though I am not implying that Sadowitz shares the politics of Chomstein.

Deliberately, it both exudes and relishes the receipt of insults and is of course extremely rightwing. Ultimately, of course, it is a crass loudhailer for US imperialism.

Of course, the rub with such purveyors of humour is that they are using Swiftian tactics (and so, supposedly-anarchic, Yippie-style linguistic tactics) in order to reinforce, rather than subvert, centres of power and ultimately, to bolster oppression and mass murder.

But I like perusing such places, as they allow me an insight into the contemporary ‘Id’ of Empire. Thank you, ‘McIntyre’, whoever (and wherever) you are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Sadowitz

“Larry is a neocon-supporting, Zionist-supporting, gay-bashing, liar, who thinks he can write satire.”

Do you dolts still think that’s my site?

Gay-bashing? Hah!

Are you denying BlameBush is your site, Larry?

Never mind. I think we’ve sorted it all out on the “So This is Self Defence?” thread.

G’day

My compliments for your bold action in protecting video record and it public presentation of the video in full length and unedited! I would like to establish communication between us and give little more information about other problems (some quite serious from this present here in dramatic case Mavi Marmara).
Trifon Atanassov
+359886215838
Trifon.Atanassov@abv.bg