Craig, can you elaborate on what terrorism Hamas engages in? They stopped suicide bombings many years ago didn’t they? The rockets they fire are usually a response to Israeli attacks on their people rather than just for the hell of it. It is a popular media myth that rocket fire into Israel is just some random act of insanity on the part of Palestinian groups. We are rarely told what precedes those rockets.

Great speech…

Kebz

I wasn’t aware Hamas had foresworn suicide bombing. Any link? But I don’t regard the rockets as in any sense helpful. In fact they give Israel a huge propaganda weapon while having virtually nil military impact.

well done for getting up and speak about such outrage.

The San remo treaty is being mentioned on Radio 4 today, as we are expected.

I am now looking at the time frame of this state sponsored kidnapp at sea.

What was it that held up two boats?

This hold up meant that the landing would happen in Gaza on Monday morning.

This time frame was perfect for an intervention at precisely the time, when news agencies and news papers had their monday morning stories ready or in print. The masses of blood sapping tabloid readers did not get the truth and have to feast on the words of the 24 hrs. late damage limitation exercise.

In news terms, this operation was pin point accuraccy, in political terms, they seemed to be assured that the US, who probably knew in advance of this action, had 24 hrs. to work on other NATO memmbers and calm them down.

The situation in Gaza will be challenged again and next time Turkey will sent military protection to accompany humanitarian aid.

I’m so fed up to have to listen to apologists like ambassador Prosser and Mark Regev.

Why are we not hearing of the condemnations of these actions by Israeli’s? How come we still not hearing from the Stop the war coalition and/or the Gaza campaign?

As if a fascist blanket has been sprerad over Parliament, all we hear is of Israels insecurity, their fear of being attacked, how much they tried to mediate, that they ‘only acted in self defence’, barbarity dressed up as legitamit action.

Israel has never officially declared war on Gaza, hence they cannot claim that they are in a war situation in Gaza. Their belligerance and stoic ignorance of the humanitarian situation there, is breathtaking, akin to the Guards in Sobibor and Bergen Belsen, who turned around when Jews were exterminated and claimed to have done as they were told and that they did not see anything untowards.

Then the world turned its back until the last minute, just as now, waiting to see what beasty policy they can come up with next.

I am not surprised that Obama has turned into O’bummer, he has been solidly supporting Israel in its expensive mission to US taxpayers.

yesterdays arm twisting and the exasperation Craig is pointing to amongst staff and administration, can be seen as proof that regardless who comes to power in the US, it will always have a Rahm Emanuel/Auersbach, plus many others, who will coordinate the US military inductrial complex with the arms requirements of Israel and visa versa, who will make sure that the jewish diaspora, in support or not, coughs up some shekels for the cause and sits tight.

This sad fact makes a major world flagration almost inevitable. As singular people we are very much powerless to do anything against this, unless we unite, cut through the maze of gizmo consumerist freakery on the net and appeal to the better judgement of people and educate the young to take an interest, for they haven’t got a clue as to what is happening here.

Turkey has shown more diplomatic backbone over this massacre on the high seas, than the EU and the US together, knowing the Turks, it is inevitable that they will try again.

I came up with an analogy which I think sums up what is happening to the Palestinians.

Imagine the school bully (Israel) daily beating up a defenceless kid (Palestinians). The teachers (western govts) and the headmaster(UN) stand by and do nothing.However,everytime the defenceless kid manages to land a punch in his defence, the teachers howl in dismay at such a devious act and when the bully then strikes harder, the teachers claim that it is the bullys’ right to defend himself.

Each day the bully takes the kids lunch off him.This makes the kid weaker and weaker. The school nurse (the flotilla) comes along to offer assistance, but the bully attacks the nurse – outside the school – and the teachers say the nurse should have stayed away as the bully had warned her. Some teachers say the nurse even done it to provoke the bully to make him look bad!

All the other children do nothing as it has nothing to do with them.The only thing the other kids do is buy the food and water that the bully has stole from the defenceless kid.

I think this pretty much sums up the moral situation in Gaza.

Great blog, Craig. I share your anger, having FCO dealings myself.

Sadly, I am not expecting Nick Clegg’s voice to be heard much, though it would be most welcome, because it will be over-ridden by Cameron’s:

“I am proud not just to be a Conservative, but a Conservative Friend of Israel; and I am proud of the key role CFI plays within our Party” Rt Hon David Cameron MP, Leader of the Conservative Party.

http://www2.cfoi.co.uk/AboutCFI/

This illegal act of state piracy and kidnap is an outrage.

Hopefully some good will come of it in that it has brought considerable, widespread international condemnation.

Militarily, footage shows it was a botch job combined with intelligence failings. There will be sackings.

And so soon after the Dubai debacle.

Off topic, what do you make of Col. Richard Kemp’s extraordinary defence to the UN of the IDF actions in Operation Cast Lead?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX6vyT8RzMo

“During Operation Cast Lead, the Israeli Defence Forces did more to safeguard the rights of civilians in a combat zone than any other army in the history of warfare.”

Can anyone clarify why it is a big deal if America vetoes the statement ? Can it not be issued with them dissenting ? Else it is a mockery if everything has to be watered down.

Curious,

Sadly the permanent members of the security council (UK, France, Russia, China, USA) each does have a veto. This means if even one of them disagrees, the statement cannot be made.

If a non-permanent member disagrees, the statement can be made with a dissenter or two noted.

‘In what could be a serious blow to Israel’s narrative on the killing of at least nine humanitarian activists making their way to Gaza through international waters, raw video by an Al Jazeera producer, who was filming during the raid, appears to provide evidence that the IDF opened fire on the flotilla even before boarding it.

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0531/raw-video-reporter-claims-israelis-fired-activists-boarding-ship/

Israeli leaders calculate very carefully before they act and very little is left to chance. Clearly there are costs involved in the attack, but there are benefits too.

The Israeli state employs highly sophisticated techniques developed in the realms of advertizing, phychology, economics, market analysis ect. in order to ‘read’ and fathom all the possible reactions to variety of military actions and options that are available to the state.

In a nutshell, how much can we get away with and how far can we go, and it what timescale, before the world demands that we stop. This has been the foundation of their military strategy for decades.

Increasingly the rightwing regime in Israel, which in reality is a military regime masked as a civilian democracy, knows that it can go very far indeed before it is ‘reigned in’ by it’s protector, the United States.

Both countries, which opperate in tandem, have calculated that the Arab leaders and the socalled Arab street are too weak to do anything concrete, as the ‘moderate’ leaderships are more frigtened of their own people than they are of Israel. In fact the ‘moderate’ states are in an unholy alliance with Israel. But it’s a highly unstable alliance and a very dangerous one.

What we are seeing is the buil-up to a new largescale war in the Middle East, an attempt to settle things once and for all. This involves the destruction of Iran and Syria in much the same way Iraq was destroyed.

We are being ‘groomed’ by Israel for a new war, these continuing and escalating acts of Israeli agression are designed to push us towards war and get us used to it’s ‘style.’

Israel has calculated that it can launch a new war in the region and ‘get away with it’ without much reaction from the West and without the ‘Arab street’ rising up and toppling their corrupt leaders. There will be a lot of shouting and screaming, but no real action and the regimes in Egypt, Saudi, the Gulf States and Jordan will survive the storm, as they don’t have a choice, they sink or swim together with Israel.

Israel knows that the coming war with Iran is part of the American plan for regime change in Iran and is sanctioned by the ruling elite in the United States.

The only question left is how to spin the propaganda wheel to justify an attack on Iran, and the question of timing, when is the best time to attack Iran and it’s allies?

Israel’s ruling elite needs to inflame a seige and war mentality inside Israel as well to prime the Israeli public and the military for yet another war of agression, the reacions of the world to the lastest outrage play into the hands of the Israeli rightwing nationalists, who prostitute Israeli national and religious mythology for their own cynical ends.

Last night on the BBC’s flagship news programme The World Tonight, I was incredulous to hear them actually ingterviewing the thriller writer Andy McNabb about the Israeli army’s methods. They were already spewing the lie that this was a ‘cock-up’ rather than a carefully planned attack on a defenceless ship full of civilians. One couldn’t make this stuff up!

Then I listened to Talksport radio. They have replaced George Galloway with ‘man of the people’ type brownshirt called Mike Graham. He was extremely biased towards Israel and felt that the UK press had had a very bad day as it’s reaction to the days events was unecessarily negative and critical of Israel! Come back George Galloway, all is forgiven!

NOTE the MV Rachel Corrie is still proceeding to Gaza…and israelis military are lying in wait:

‘Israel’s navy is ready to stop another aid ship headed to Gaza, a

commander said on Tuesday, playing down the prospect of his men shying

from confrontation after their bloody seizure of a Turkish vessel a day

…earlier.

Israel’s Army Radio reported that the MV Rachel Corrie, a converted merchant ship, would reach Gazan waters by Wednesday.

A marine lieutenant who was not named told Army Radio in an interview that he expected an easy takeover of the ship

http://tvnz.co.nz/world-news/israel-braced-intercept-next-aid-ship-3576559

More evidence that Israeli people are being swept away by a government out of control. Excellent article. Note the source…

“Israel is Lost at Sea”

http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/a-special-place-in-hell/a-special-place-in-hell-the-second-gaza-war-israel-lost-at-sea-1.293246

The idea that Israel craves international legitimacy is a little wide of the mark.

By and large the state’s greatest psychological weapon:”anti-semitism” has proved more effective than all its ethnic cleansing and terrorization of the Arabs.

The state was born on the back of widespread massacre and terror against Palestinian civilians. UN officials who sought to mediate were not spared either.

Israel has been an outlaw state from day one.The repulsive spawn of Frankist elites at the UN in NY.

The state’s survival for over sixty years has been down to the popular mythology-abetted by the corporate media-it created about itself.

The elite-driven Zionist perception that Jews had to have a state in Palestine because they had come very near to extinction that had failed to convince anyone after WW1 proved far more successful after WW2.

The elites who orchestrated the two major conflicts that established the conditions in which Zionist propaganda could ultimately prosper are the very same elites who created the UN and the League before that.

If those who have succumbed to Zionist foundational myths about eternal Jewish victimhood are once more having to endure yet another bout of cognitive dissonance as the criminal state adds yet another outrage to its long list of crimes against humanity then Israel’s latest victims will not have died in vain.

Craig,

Hamas confirmed the end of its campaign of suicide bombings four years ago: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/apr/09/israel

As regards the rockets, I agree they are ineffective and counterproductive yet when you have a young population under siege and facing IDF bullets each day, it is difficult to contain natural frustration and anger. Youths have a natural inclination to fight back however ineffective and counterproductive it is. The rockets are merely a symptom rather than the cause of the conflict as the media like to portray. The cause is the wretched and vicious occupation and the constant persecution of the Palestinians.

Too many “Friends of Israel” for the UK to do anything Im afraid.

and as of yet still sub standard coverage in the press.

Israels explanation of its stance is primarily against the HAMAS terroist organisation. NO mention is made that

a) the majority of the palestinians through democracy voted for HAMAS.

B) no mention of the fact that Israel is an occupying country

c) no mention of the outstanding UN resolutions against it

Well said writerman. Does anybody here believe that the US did not know in advance of this action?

They knew the flotilla was on their way, they knew that the timing was right for an action and they are the one’s twisting arms in the UN, hence, this was a coordinated action by both, the active IDF and the passive US, not to speak of the silent support by the western vasalls at large.

The MV Rachel Corrie, on its way to Gaza, should get a military escort from an EU state, to guarantee its rights on the high seas, aynthing else would be asking for more of the same.

I also can see the large red brush strokes of war mongers painting over the middle east. It looks like Syria Turkey and Iran will be attacked by Israel.

This is a conflict that will set the glovbe alight and I do not think that Israel will get away with it. China will not sit on its hand and feel for israel when 20% of its oil is in jeopardy.

Saudi Arabia will think twice before its going to take the western side once they see how millions of Muslims rise up in the world, the scenario of the next major’unpleasantness’is not straight forward imho.

Perhaps you can clarify this, Craig.

The ship that was boarded by Israeli soldiers was being sailed under the Turkish flag.

Turkey is a member of NATO.

Isn’t an attack on one NATO member regarded as an attack on all?

Ps. Is there any coincidence that the attack on a Turkish vessel comes a week or so after the uranium-enrichment deal with Iran?

The strains within NATO must be even more severe than usual.

Spokesman for Israel army shows the level of internal propaganda in Israel stating in her explanation for military action that “there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza”

See IBA-link or english news:

http://www.iba.org.il/media/?recorded=tv&broadcastUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fswitch5%2Ecastup%2Enet%2Fframes%2F20040704_IBA_Popup%2Fiba_gray%2Easp%3Fai%3D3191zA81ar%3Dibanews

Nice to see Melanie Phillips is full of her usual reasonable worldview – unbelievable…

‘ Israel kills Islamic terrorists who are trying to lynch its soldiers by clubbing them to death, stabbing them with massive knives and firebombing them ?” and according to Sir Jeremy Greenstock, this shows that Israel must now start talking to Hamas, an Islamic terrorist organisation which is committed to the destruction of Israel and the genocide of the Jews’

http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/6046259/why-the-double-standard-sir-jeremy.thtml

The FT and Haaretz pieces read very much the same.

In both articles the emphasis is on Israel’s strategy and the Gaza blockade playing into the hands of its enemies.

No attention is paid to and no names are given for the victims of the atrocity.Had Iranian gunboats been responsible WW3 would now be imminent!

So the impulse to the portray Israel as “the victim” is readily detectable in both articles.In both while it’s a given that Israel has gone too far we need not worry because the concept of international law will be vindicated ultimately.

It’s pretty much the same narrative we get from the same sources when Afghanistan and Iraq are discussed.

Both wars,especially the latter,were promoted by Israel and its dual-citizen neo-con allies in Washington.Both wars forward Israeli plans for regional domination.

Yes the US and Britain resorted to unilateral pre-emptive attack was contrary to international law but the very act of transgression only vindicated international law.

Sadly this kind of vindication seems always to satisfy the STW/pacifist opposition who insist, in line with the establishment narrative, that like intrnational law itself they too have been vindicated.

Alas were anyone to spend a little more time discovering who the founders of the UN were they would soon discover that these people’s intention was to establish an international body that would rubber stamp, or at least not stand in the way of, any war upon which they saw fit to embark.

The UN was to be an instrument of war not peace.

This was the case in Korea in 1949 when the US and Britain waged war on the peninsula under the UN flag.It has been the case ever since.

Check out Jackie Patru’s Jewish Persecution for the real background to the UN:

http://www.sweetliberty.org/perspective/jewishpersecution1.htm

A good piece on BBC from Paul Reynolds entitled: Israeli convoy raid: What went wrong?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10203333.stm

If we’re not careful this masty terrorist state, Israel, will drag us all into nuclear conflagration.

Despite claims from Clegg and all the other nutters in the US and across our media, Israel is not a victim, never has been a victim and never will be a victims.

The victims are those against whom this increasingly evil state launches attacks, murders, kidnaps, denies the right to food and life.

It truly is depressing that all our media and leading politicians, even Clegg, continue to appease and bolster one of the nastiest and most dangerous terrorist states on the planet today.

Would it not be possible to report that SKY buffoon, Murnaghan, and his editors and producers to OFCOM.

He continually refers to arrests and custody when discussing those whom Israeli has clearly kidnapped in international waters.

Why is he allowed to support Israel’s illegal actions in this way?

Aren’t there rules about supporting terrorism?

One of the sinister, although typical, aspects of this war crime is the way Israel is witholding information about the victims, keeping prisoners and thus denying them the ability to tell their side of the story. Jonathan Cook has a good piece on this at Counterpunch. The Foreign Office should be carpeting the pathetic Israeli ambassador and demanding to know who the British prisoners are and why they are being held. Israel has obviously decided to deny any access to the media by the victims of their criminal assault. Like everybody, I have had enough of our government being so craven, appeasing an apartheid, violent state and not having the guts to stand up for justice, or even its own citizens. Robert Fisk is good on this in today’s Independent, contrasting it with the governments of the past who would organise airlifts etc when the occasion demanded. I think ordinary citizens are way ahead of their pathetic leaders in this. The media are astonishing in their inability to ask some basic questions of the Israelis, you know the elementary principles and methods of journalism. Amazing how people are cowed by the Israel propaganda machine.

I had to laugh when Sky interviewed that woman whose brother or husband was on the flotilla.

She was sweet, and wearing a hijab.

Bit dodgy, eh.

Can just imagine those scheming shits in Sky organising that one.

Sky could have interviewed any number of wives, sisters etc whose relatives were on the flotilla, the vast majority of whom would look just too British for broadcast.

Wrong message, you see.

Sky just wants to perpetuate the myth that criticism of Israel is confined to dodgy muzzies. And we all know what they’re like, eh. Sky tells us often enough.

Nah. We can’t have nice middle class women from the home counties criticising Israel.

The thing is, they do!!

I have a feeling that despite the best efforts of the myth makers in broadcast media, there’s a bubble about to burst there, and dirty great big slabs of reality are about to hit us all on the head.

There’s always a price to pay for lies.

From the always excellent Juan Cole blog:

:There are no new details of the Israeli assault on the humanitarian aid flotilla early Monday morning, largely because the 480 eyewitnesses had been sequestered by the Israelis. Some, including an 81-year-old former US ambassador, a Turkish woman with a baby, and a former US navy sailor who had been on the USS Liberty when the Israelis attacked it in 1967, are now trickling home. The whereabouts and condition of many others is unconfirmed, including European parliamentarians, Nobelists, and Swedish mystery writer Henkell Manning (whose anti-imperialist novel The Man from Beijing I just read and enjoyed.)

The incident could have implications for the future relationship of Israel to the European Union. Irish Minister of Foreign Affairs Micheal Martin hinted that Dublin might go so far as to cut expel the Israeli ambassador, thus cutting off diplomatic relations with Tel Aviv. Some 8 Irish citizens are among Israel’s prisoners, and one of these humanitarians, Fiachra O’Luain, is said by his father to have been wounded by Israeli gunplay. Martin thundered, “These citizens did not enter Israel illegally ?” they were essentially kidnapped from international waters, taken into Israel and are being asked to sign documents saying they entered illegally.”

Now if the Irish have the balls to state the obvious and demand some answers, where are the British ministers demanding the same for the British kidnapped? Why should they sign anything, particularly a false claim? Craig might make some enquiries as to what exactly the British diplomats in Israel are doing?

I suspect the reason that Israel is refusing to reveal the names of those whom it has kidnapped is so that it can whack a few more of its critics.

In the confusion no one will know who was killed, how many, who was injured, the severity of injuries, whther they died later etc.

Israel now has total control of this information, its release and can kill off a small number of carefully selected critics should it wish.

It’s absolutely disgraceful that this terrorist state, Israel, can kidnap people in international waters and refuse infomation.

Even Iran didn’t do this! And they were dealing with armed forces, not civilians.

Israel needs to be totally isolate now!

Latest: Buffoon Murnaghan back blaming the victims.

the appeasement of israel must stop.

And then when anyone criticizes them, they will give the usual cry, “Antisemitism”.

At least the BBC is now presenting the views of a broader range of British opinion, critical of Israel.

Sky is still relying on its dodgy muzzie motif.

These scumbags need to be reported to OFCOM, before they do any further damage to our public discourse.

Let’s hope that Israel has pushed its luck just once too far.

Despite the best efforts of Sky to bury or negate the extent of the criticism of Israel, we may be reaching a critical mass.

The straw that broke the camel’s back.

We supposedly live in a kind of democracy, yet it’s extraordinary how little real debate is allowed in our, supposedly, ‘free’ media. Democracy without real debate, how’s that supposed to fit together?

Say what you like about George Galloway, but when he was on the radio at least there was some debate about current affairs and a forthright exchange of controversial ideas. Isn’t that supposed to be the lifeblood of democratic debate?

Well, even those few hours when he worked the graveyard shift, were deemed too much; there can be no real alternative to the Westminster concensus. So he’s gone and he’ll never return to the national airways. What’s telling, is that on a whole range of issues, but especially his resistance to all these wars, Galloway arguably represented the views of the majority of the UK people. In many respects the silencing of Galloway is the gagging of the views of millions of ordinary people who have no real voice anywhere in our ‘free’ media.

It’s extraordinary how conformist and loyal to the state most journalists really are. Think, there are tens of thousands of journalists in the UK, yet one can count the number of critical or dissedents on one’s fingers, and even that is pushing it!

It’s like the ‘vetting’ process, the filtering process, starts way before these people even become journalists. So one doesn’t need overt censorship because the people ‘chosen’ don’t need to be censored, they do it themselves, semi-automatically.

It probably starts before they reach school-age in their homes. ‘Education’ seems to be primarily about learning to serve and obey the ‘masters’ and internalising their interests and worldview, as one’s own. Learning not to bite the hand that is going to feed one later on in life. Above all else, one must never question the legitimacy of the ‘masters’ to rule over us. To do that, is, for the most part, the kiss of death for one’s career. Craig’s trajectory seems to illustrate this idea beautifully.

The essence of modern life is the control of what ideas are deemed acceptable or not. Control how people think, how they see the world around them, control the mind and the body will follow. It’s a propaganda world.

Ian M

“Now if the Irish have the balls to state the obvious and demand some answers, where are the British ministers demanding the same for the British kidnapped? ”

Don’t expect too much, the British ministers & FO look after British interests, not British people. British interests are those of the wealthy, enfranchised, and not always British. British people are subjects, not citizens, a burden on the state, not an asset. Supposed to vote correctly or not at all, and certainly not supposed to do anything like ruffle Israel’s delicate feathers.

Well spoken Craig, your speech should have been been reflected in the UK government’s response to this act of murder. Sadly UK Foreign secretary does not have your resolve and integrity when it comes to Israel, they all start behaving like eunuchs, it must be requirement of the FCO that people dealing with Isreal be castrated by the Zionists to qualify. Israel has no qualms about killing any one peace activists or Allies and protectors are all fair game. Remember the attack on USS liberty of the Lavon Affair where the victims were Americans. So killing a few peace activists is not a problem. One wonders just what do the Zionist have on the US and UK that its leaders become so subservient to them?

I don’t understand what Israel is thinking. Turkey has long been one of Israel’s closest friends in the region. Sure, since Erdogan became PM the relationship has undoubtedly been strained, but I can’t imagine Israel wants to permanently end the relationship. The USA already has it’s hands full in Iraq and Afghanistan, I can’t imagine they want more conflict in the region.

Israel has always been careful to create or use a pretext to justify their acts of aggression. In this case it is too blatant, even with the huge amount of predictable media spin. Massacring aid workers who are bringing food to starving people just can’t be spun in a plausible way. Online communities such as reddit.com (one of the biggest communities on the net) which are fairly apolitical, have been truely outraged by Israels actions.

I can only conclude that the recent actions of Israel were a terrible mistake, a ridiculous miscalculation or else Israel has transitioned from a psychopathic but rational state to one that is so driven by militaristic Zionism that even basic self interest cannot restrain it’s actions. I have a feeling the last option is the case. God only know where this will lead.

As for the FT, it is a strange beast. Hardley a bastion of liberalism, oddly enough it often speaks more truth than papers written for the hoi polloi.

I wonder if Israel – yet again – used a distraction in America to launch a particularly underhand and cowardly crime against humanity. This time, it’s the on-going Gulf catastrophe. In the past, US elections have served as cover on a regular basis.

The lamentably small foreign reportage in the US becomes effectively non-existent during periods of major interest at home (elections, changes in office, major political scandal, Janet Jackson exposing a nipple and so on). An ideal time to make sure even a sliver of news that shows Israel in a bad light will be swamped and ignored.

Whatever happened that civil servant, quite senior I believe, who during Cast Lead openly criticised Israeli slaughter?

The setting was a gym club.

Someone else complained, not about Israeli slaughter, but about the civil servant telling the truth.

It seems the person who complained about the slaughter was vilified in media. The person who complained about the critic of Israel suffered no penalty.

You wrote:

“Off topic, what do you make of Col. Richard Kemp’s extraordinary defence to the UN of the IDF actions in Operation Cast Lead?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX6vyT8RzMo”

Col. Richard Kemp’s loyalties have been lied bare when he referred to IDF as “we” in an article in Jerusalem Post. I assume he self identifies as Israeli, but his usefullness is in portraying him as English and impartial.

One of Obama’s laughable appointments is now saying that Israel can be trusted to hold its own inquiry into the murder on the flotilla.

How long must we suffer such tiresome drivel and do something to finally isolate this nasty terrorist state.

Israel seems hellbent on dragging the western world into world war.

Is there no leader who can finally bring this wild dog to heel.

Thierry Meyssans excellent commmentary on the WHY of the attack

http://www.voltairenet.org/article165593.html

also:

‘All Turkish diplomatic staff was mobilized to brief a maximum number of states and international organizations on the situation. During a press conference, Mr. Arin

Turkey has announced that future aid convoys will receive military escorts:

news.antiwar.com/2010/05/31/turkey-future-gaza-aid-ships-will-have-military-escorts/

Hopefully this means the blockade of Gaza will no longer be feasible for Israel to maintain.

Quote of the century!!

That tedious clown Iain Dale does it again:

“Allegations of disproptionate force are being made, as they always are whenever Israel does anything.”

That this imbecile is so regularly in our mainstream media tells you all you need to know about just how bad things truly are.

Western leaders, that can’t be right, surely? Aren’t they really characterised by their uncanny ability to follow, not lead?

I still remember when a couple of Western leaders actually had the balls to speak openly and break ranks on controversial issues – like the United States attack and invasion of Vietnam. I’m thinking of two dead statesmen Trudeau in Canada and Palme in Sweden.

My those days seem as dead as they are. It seems like another age, which I suppose is what it really was.

Like the mass media, it’s striking how groomed, well-behaved and conformist Western politicians have become. There are no leaders of the calibre of Olaf Palme ready to openly criticise the United States or Israel. Israel which is an extention of US power and policy in the region.

And what the people think doesn’t matter at all, not a fig. Our rulers support the United States and Israel and the views of the majority don’t count. Then we are told we live in a democracy. That may be true for one day every four or five years, but what about the hundreds of days imbetween? All those hundreds of days when the people are brazenly ignored by the bastards?

Wouldn’t it be refreshing, a realease, a relif; if one person in this ‘new politics’ government had the moral fibre and backbone to speak up for the millions of people in this country that are appalled at the barberous actions of Israel.

To think that Britain was once a great power, yet it apparant that the UK political class is scared shitless of a bunch of brutal, right-wing fanatics and fantasists in a tiny country like Israel. How did this tremendous transformation come about exactly? When did the UK evolve into a rentboy for Israel?

We can now see the meticulous planning behind the scenes for this despicable abuse of international law, again, and how the time frame was pitch perfect to give both agressors, Israel and the US collaborators behind the scenes, enough time to deconstruct the real news, offerin their angles of rights to self defence/San Remo Treaty/violent activists and then react favourable to their own nes creations, amplify them and make sure that the news agencies run with their version of excuses.

I take my hat off for Irelands plans for resolute reactions, lets see whether they can pull this off.

@ Eva Smagacz.

Do you have a link for that article by Kemp?

The Judge

There two lines of people in the modern world – those who can and those who can not buy the judge. Like Israel and Iran.

What do you expect with such judges such as the nations who control the UN security council?

Q

The events taking place in Turkey are of real significance. After decades of rule by the army and it’s political wing, which were mere stooges of ‘western imperialism’, finally Turkey is regaining its independence and reasserting itself as a leading player in the region.

Obviously the current Turkish ‘Islamic’ government realises that one way to gain support from the masses and protect itself from attack from within is to assert itself internationally. The Turkish establishment in the military and politics would dearly love to regain control of the country and re-establish the dictatorship again, but this is made infinitely more difficult when they are identified and labelled as ‘appeasers’ of Israel and the West.

The rise of Turkey and its seemingly inevitable drawing away from the western sphere of influence is probably even more significant than the Islamic revolution in Iran. The very idea of an independent Turkey must be sending shivers of horror down the spines of the gang in Washington and Tel Aviv.

Which makes it even more difficult to understand why they would choose to openly attack, humiliate and provoke Turkey. A nation where national pride is close to a form of secular relgion.

I agree with Cheebacow and Andy McNab. This operation was a screwup which will not do Israel any good. Hopefully the outcome will not be merely disciplinary action against the people held responsible but the lifting of the blockade against Gaza altogether.

Reports are coming through that that Israeli troops had already fired on the unarmed aid workers from Naval ships killing two, BEFORE boarding via helicopter.

Oh dear.

Melanie Phillips is on Sky.

“It’s the victims’ fault” sums it up. “They’re all just terrorists and dupes”, excuses Israeli murder.

It’s precisely this kind of immorality that dominates our mainstream media culture.

These are truly evil people, who are in charge in our country. Make no mistake about it.

Don’t protest or you know what you’ll get!

Melanie Philips is just a Nazi.

She would support anything and everything Israel does.

She makes no secret of this.

And has stated that if Israel ever has a war with the UK, she would go to Israel to support them.

Cannot such much more than this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wldvJYuFmKw&feature=related

but on the other side of the coin, theres this muslim hater

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/

It doesn’t matter what Melanie Philips says, because you can pradict what she says before she says it. She is an Israel firster, some one who gives unconditional support to Israel. Her Job is just to support Israel what ever it does against who ever it does it to. If Israel Bombed the UK, Ireland of all British Schools, she will still support Israel and attack its victims.

That is her Job.

She will support Israel more than Israel supports itself.

“The one silver lining from these incidents is that the real face of Israel becomes increasingly revealed and undeniable. Not even the most intense propaganda systems can prettify a lethal military attack on ships carrying civilians and humanitarian aid to people living in some of the most wretched and tragic conditions anywhere in the world. It is crystal clear to anyone who looks what Israel has become, and the only question left is how will the rest of the world — beginning with their American patrons — will react.”

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/05/31/israel/index.html

Fatsnacker

What she says is irrelivant.

People in a ship have the right to protect it. And the Zionists had no right to be on the ship.

So people on the ship had ever right to protect themselves and their ship form the soldiers.

And the soldiers had no right to be on the ship let alone kill people on it.

Melanie Philips and the other one defend what Israel did the way they defend Israel killing Palestinian babies to steal their kidneys. And that is by crying Antisemetism!!!! Blood Libel!!!!!!

Hollocost!!!!

Same shit, different day.

nuff said

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMGuYjt6CP8

sorry Asalan,

I gave the wrong impression of DS website on this matter.

I detest eveything she stands for, I merely placed it on here for reference

The Fatsnacker

Big mistake to think that Melanie Phillips is irrelevant.

I only wish it were so.

Sadly, the views of Melanie Phillips dominate both the BBC and Sky news agenda and that of many newspapers.

She’s a raving nut job, of course, but it’s that simple fact which tells you just how bad things are in mainstream media.

It’s people of such obviously evil views who set the news agenda. It really is that bad.

They just don’t have the morality that you see in ordinary people. They’re divorced from reality. They live in a fictive world in which any myth can exist as a truth and anything that is critical of that myth has to be excluded.

These are very dangerous times, and our guides through these times are very dangerous people.

It’s no different from the myth of forever living on increasing debt, another favourite of media.

There comes a day when all the debt has to be repaid. There comes a day when all the lies have to be assuaged. That latter will make the credit crunch seem like a damp squib.

You mean this lovely girl:

“About Debbie

DEBBIE SCHLUSSEL:

Conservative political commentator, radio talk show host, columnist, and attorney

Schlussel’s unique expertise on radical Islam/Islamic terrorism and a host of other issues make her a popular speaker and television and radio news talk show guest, both nationally & internationally. (Her online fan club is the Internet’s second largest for a political personality?”behind only Ann Coulter.) She is a University of Michigan graduate and holds both Law and MBA degrees from the University of Wisconsin.

As both an attorney and a frequent New York Post and Jerusalem Post columnist, Schlussel’s writings/commentary on radical Islam and her legal actions against radical Islamic parties have gotten a great deal of attention ?” and results. Columns she’s written in the New York Post and appearances she’s made on “O’Reilly Factor”"

Every child should watch this film -

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4113285887114591367&hl=en#

…it would be cynical, in the light of the suffering of the war-affected children of the world, to accept war-crimes as an inevitable part of the human condition.

Craig, that was a powerful, logical, well-informed and moving speech. Well done and good on you. It hit the nail right on the head.

I do wonder whether this act of war, which, I believe, will have been sanctioned by the USA (this, I feel, will emerge eventually), as someone else suggested somewhere on this blog, was designed specifically to intimidate/ provoke Turkey in view of Turkey’s recent role in reducing the risk of an imminent attack on Iran through its negotiations with Iran.

People who help the Palestinians have been attacked and murdered by Israel for years, but this act is of an entirely different scale and was perpetrated on a military/ trade ally of both the USA and Israel and a member state of the Council of Europe. There is no other explanation for this attack on, specifically, Turkish, shipping in the Mediterranean.

In which case, this act of war is a shot across the bows (no, rather, it is a crude cannonball in the hull), a clear and unequivocal message to any state – regardless of prior alliances – which thinks to deflect the impending military destruction of Iran and the theft of its oil reserves.

I think that once the smoke has cleared, we will see that this act of war is a message from the military economy that is USA to the world.

Well well, the truth is dribbling out now. An Israeli member of the Knesset, no less, Hanin Zoabi was on the Marmara. She is saying on BBC News that at least 14 Israeli ships approached and started firing. She is clear that Israel was the aggressor, plus making the obvious and ignored point that it was completely unnecessary to act in the way they did if their object was to prevent the ships getting to Gaza. She says, as we suspected, that the object was to send a message to any others thinking about doing the same thing. Amazing and extraordinary that Israel thinks this is acceptable. Their arrogance and lies is breathtaking. I pity Zanin, she is going to get smeared and attacked, no doubt. But well done to her for standing up for justice in the face of fascism.

“To think that Britain was once a great power, yet it apparant that the UK political class is scared shitless of a bunch of brutal, right-wing fanatics and fantasists in a tiny country like Israel. How did this tremendous transformation come about exactly? When did the UK evolve into a rentboy for Israel?”

I suspect it’s more to do with not wanting to break ranks with the US.

‘I recently visited the offices of IHH, the Turkish humanitarian organization that sponsored one of the Freedom Flotilla boats, and that was targeted by the Israelis for its murderous rampage. Reports are still coming in as to the full extent of the senseless Israeli violence. Of course, I expect Israel’s apologists in the press and in the United States government to shift into high gear to support Israel’s lying machine. Take note of their names. The 12,000 internet squatters/written word grenade throwers, hired by the Israeli Foreign Ministry to defend Israel and attack peace activists online, are already busy spreading their orchestrated disinformation in cyberspace. Be very careful what you read and believe from special interest press and the internet. You could be reading one of Israel’s hired hacks. As a news diversion from what Israel has just done, I suspect that we can also expect to see a lot of historical footage of war’s atrocities on television: today is Memorial Day in the United States, a day long ago set aside to remember the sacrifices of U.S. war dead.’

Cynthia McKinney

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19467

Paul sadly is right – we can do nothing really – the US will not use this egregious attack as a teaching moment for Israel judging by Obama’s response.

And if Netanyahu will happily ignore and snub the U.S., it’s just about unimaginable that he’d give us in Britain or France or Spain the time of day. The Palestinians might stir up trouble, but they are weak and any trouble will entrench Israel further and once again point the world to Palestinian terrorism.

So, is there a pragmatic option ww can apply here?

You got it! effect some counter-balance to Israel. Britain could support Iran in the same manner we supported Iran in the ’70′s in training their Navy. Iran is crying out for technical expertise in GPS/ELECTRONIC WARFARE/NUCLEAR and trade could be worth an estimated £100 billion to our economy.

Why should Russia get all the contracts because of our ‘special relationship’ with America?

I’m not saying this a solution, what I am saying sadly is it seems equally likely that this egregious incident won’t have any significant short-term consequences considering America and Obama refuse to expend significant political capital on an effort to restrict aid to Israel, make her comply with UN resolutions or declare her nuclear bombs and join the NNPT. Until our government decides to make radical foreign policy changes, Israeli conservatives will figure that everything turned out for the best. If anyone here has any other ideas, I will be most glad to learn them.

Seems to me that an occupied people have a rigth to resist oppression and occupation.

That aside, the true “international community” it also seems, should be heeded. But, even if from this:-

“The APA called on the international community to “double efforts” for bringing humanitarian aid to Gaza and force Israel to lift the three-year blockade on the coastal strip.”

To the UN Security Council, the Israeli/US “International Community” will operate by its own norms of international law. So sad!

Just merely asking those who support the attack on the peace fotilla:-

1. Since the Allied forces did not claim any permanent territory post World War 11,it it then to be supposed that the “Chosen people” post- 1967 have some special “God given” right to claim territory post-1967? Either that, or there must exist some rational secular laws that govern the actions of the state of Israel.

2. When someone invades one’s territory, under Israeli/US edict ( by some special standards of International law – it appears)and it is to be assumed, that the right to resist is somehow suspended when it comes to the actions of Israel? or,

3. In relation to 2 above Article 51 of the UN Charter:-

” Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defence shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security. ” remains in existence.

There, of course, might be some special text of international law, that I have yet to read, that makes it permissble to attack a vessel in international waters following upon the suspension (at 2 above) of the right to resistance.

The true “International community” should not yield on this one, and ought properly to insist that this illegal action is now properly addressed, condemned and the perpetrators brought to justice.

Where does Washington DC fit in here? Israel would not have launched this commando attack without permission or even instruction from Washington.

The USA’s Administration’s reaction to the outrage worldwide has been to block all UN response.

I can’t help thinking Washington is very heavily involved and that the blockade of Gaza is part of US policy in the region.

Check out liveleak for Israeli celebrations of the flotilla attack outside the Turkish embassy.

Those of you who said Turkey is a Zionist-occupied government and could do jack-shit to avenge the killings are spot-on!

http://snippits-and-slappits.blogspot.com/search/Label/Flotilla%20to20%20Gaza

Israel punishes those who betray them.

MAD DOG!

‘”Operation Justified Vengeance”: Israeli Strike on Freedom Flotilla to Gaza is Part of a Broader Military Agenda’

‘Meir Dagan, who currently heads Mossad, Israel’s intelligence agency.’

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19447

I don’t want to appear rude but I think Barry Obama is a clueless clown. A puppet, whose strings are pulled by Ram.and hence those occupying palestine. The United States are a fascist nation much worse that the third reich. For those who be brainwashed The U.S. and Israel are the new master race. The only way to beat them is remove the zio puppets and go to all out, full spectrum war.

Turkish Embassy Tel Aviv Doh!

@ Ishmael:

“The only way to beat them is remove the zio puppets and go to all out, full spectrum war.”

*Red and yellow and blue and green,

Purple and orange and pink,

I can sing a rainbow,

Sing a rainbow,

Sing a rainbow too!

Listen to your heart,

Listen to your heart,

And sing everything you feel,

I can sing a rainbow,

Sing a rainbow,

Sing a rainbow too*

Now sing along children, or baby Jesus will kill a kitten!

I almost through up when Larry the liar agreed with me.

To Larry the Zionist liar, today Turkey will do nothing because of its Zionist Military.

The Military dictatorship in Turkey will be removed, just before Zionism is removed from Palestine.

Larry I hope I am right and you are not from St Louis, and I hope we will meet there.

Hay take a good look at the Zionist celebrating the murder of civilians outside the Turkish Embassy.

http://dotconnectoruk.blogspot.com/2010/06/israelis-celebrating-slaughter-on.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2FandB+%28Connecting+the+Dots+in+the+New+World+Order%29

Thanks Larry for posting it, I will be sure to publisize it where ever I can.

A very clever bit of insight writerman which I call the ‘grooming theory’ – I believe only Britain and France will be able to stop a strike on Iran and I hope our government/people have the wherefore and the balls to crush pre-emption when that time arrives.

“Where does Washington DC fit in here? Israel would not have launched this commando attack without permission or even instruction from Washington.”

Why not? Israel was willing to embarrass (humiliate?) Biden on his visit to Israel by announcing building in Jerusalem.

The current Israeli government seems to be extremely arrogant.

Channel 4 is saying the Israeli commandos were armed with ‘paint ball guns’ by looking at the video and the silhouette of the rifle?

It was the Israelis that are saying it was paint balls and Channel four who are dumb enough to repeat their crap.

The people on the boat are saying the Israelis started shoot from the helicopters before they even landed on the boat.

And the people on the boat were just trying to protect themselves when they fought back.

And now the Israelis are using their fighting back as their cry of “Anti Semite” after they kill a few babies to steal kidneys.

Contra Zio-nuts like the BBC and Melanie Phillips the humanitarian mission to Gaza resisted the attack beacause they had seen several colleagues already shot dead by cowardly IDF commandoes and snipers.

The footage being spun ludicrously by the BBC in a futile effort to portray Israel as the victim of extremist aggressors bent on confrontation is of humanitarian aid workers defending themselves much like you and I would do in the same life-treatening circumstances.

Check out Paul Joseph Watson:

http://www.infowars.com/did-activists-attack-israeli-soldiers-in-self-defense/

On US Complicity in Evil re-the flotilla attack:Paul Craig Roberts is at the same source:

http://www.infowars.com/americas-complicity-in-evil/

Suhayl: “I think that once the smoke has cleared, we will see that this act of war is a message from the military economy that is USA to the world.”

Do you really think that’s the sort of “military operation” that the U.S. would approve? If it had been a “military operation,” it certainly was quite ineffective, wasn’t it?

Did you happen to catch the raw video?

You seem to have an inability to think through issues.

Craig, or anyone else, is it true that Israel has a legal right to capture or attack “Any vessel that violates or attempts to violate a maritime blockade”?

from the BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/10203726.stm

Israel’s foreign ministry says that under international maritime law, when a maritime blockade is in effect, no boats can enter the blockaded area. It adds: “Any vessel that violates or attempts to violate a maritime blockade may be captured or even attacked under international law.”

Israel has admitted possessing nuclear armed cruise missiles.

http://www.yalibnan.com/2010/05/30/israel-sends-nuclear-missiles-on-submarines-to-iran/

Murder

http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/06/israels-premeditated-murder-of-peace-activists-was-no-mistake/#more-17775

Keith,

I can’t speak for Craig, as he’s rather expert in this field… yet, whilst a military blockade is in force, this does not mean that a country has the legal right to use any level of force or violence to impose the blockade, especially on neutral countries which may seek to ‘break’ the blockade. The concept of proportionality in the degree of force used applies here as well.

Attacking an unarmed civilian vessal from a neutral country that isn’t directly part of the conflict and is only carrying food and medical supplies and no weapons, is, on the face of it, clearly illegal under international law, and an attack like the one carried out by Israel is effectively an act of war directed at Turkey. Turkey has been attacked by Israel and it could choose to defend itself and retaliate to this open act of miliatry agression.

Arguably Israel could have stopped the ships and demanded to search them for weapons, without breaching international law; but launching a deadly attack on the vessels without any proof is, clearly a war-crime and Israel should be held to account by the international community, just like any other rogue state.

We should perhaps remember the case of the Lusitania which was attacked by a German U-boat off the coast of Ireland during World War One. This act brought the United States into the war on Britain’s side. Germany’s defence at the time was that the American owned passenger ship was carrying a cargo of arms for Britain and was therefore a legitimate target, but that excuse was not accepted by the world or American public opinion. That subsequently it was revealed that the Germans were probably correct about the true nature of the Lusitania and its cargo hardly matters anymore.

CheebaCow,

I don’t understand what Israel is thinking. Turkey has long been one of Israel’s closest friends in the region.

Not now! Since the brilliant circumvent enrichment deal i that includes Spain.

However, in a new pact signed by Iran, Turkey, and Brazil on May 17, Tehran agreed to transfer 1,200 kilograms of low-enriched uranium to Turkey to be exchanged for 120 kilograms of 20 percent enriched fuel for the Tehran research reactor. Iran is now awaiting a response from the IAEA and the Vienna Group, which is comprised of the United States, France, and Russia.

According to the nine-page document issued by the IAEA, Iran has agreed to a request by the agency to allow better monitoring of its enrichment activities by improving the angles of the cameras and sealing materials.

This has prompted Israel to send her German built submarines to the Gulf.

I wonder if Iran now needs to upgrade her torpedoes? Let it be clearly understood – I am a torpedo expert with knowledge of the latest active sonar, microprocessor search pattern, electro-magnetic field detection torpedoes.

Amnesty action form:

http://www.amnesty.org.uk/actions_details.asp?ActionID=699

Keith

Discussed at some length in comments here:

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2010/05/the_legal_posit.html#comments

Every unbiased normal person should be forced to read information such as written here:

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Article.aspx?id=177082

Only then will they realise the mentality of the Israelis and the brainwashing that must go on within their military style of government.

The best part is radical islamists would love to cut your head off, video tape it and send it out over the internet. Yet, you sit here and extoll their virtues. Awesome.

Can anyone clarify the legality of Israel occupying territories which belonged to other countries before 1967?

Does that not mean taking territory not theirs by force and therefore not legal?I mean,Germany did that in 1941 and by doing that war was declared.

How is it acceptable that Israel gets to keep those territories just by calling them ‘occupied territories’?

(I’m not being daft,it is a genuine question)

Sadly 41 Arabs, 28 British citizens, 17 Palestinian Jews, 2 Armenians, 1 Russian, 1 Greek and 1 Egyptian were blown into little bits by Zionists in the King David Hotel bombing.

@MS,

“Can anyone clarify the legality of Israel occupying territories which belonged to other countries before 1967?

Does that not mean taking territory not theirs by force and therefore not legal?I mean,Germany did that in 1941 and by doing that war was declared.”

De facto they did it.

De jure there is an acceptance in international law for “Israel” within the pre-1967 boundaries.

Law and justice are not the same entities. No one at that level gives much consideration to the manifest illegality of the dispossession of the Palestinians onwards.

Sad, but true.

This is not my beautiful country!

http://news.antiwar.com/2010/06/01/as-obama-havers-congressmen-cheer-aid-ship-massacre/

Hi “me in US”.

Another “Quantum Leap” moment I am afraid. We are back in the 1930′s. Many Israeli and more than a few Washington politicians believe they are the Master Race. Once you are the Master Race in your own heads not only can you do anything you like, but you actually must do anything you like. If you are not in the Master Race, then you are scum – in their heads.

The next “Quantum Leap” effects is that in US politics we are set in the 1950′s in another McCarthy Period of self-induced paranoid lunacy. The departure of Bush and arrival of Obama has made no difference to this self-harming when it comes to foreign policy. McCarthy belonged in the 1950′s and it was not till December 1954 he was finally taken away kicking & screaming to a Funny Farm. McCarthy had Reds everywhere under the bed, now we have Muslims with AK47′s everywhere under the bed.

Time will sort this out, given a chance. Let us hope Obama can focus attentions on the many very real problems back home rather than allowing his administration to wander so far off course thinking that the most important thing before all else is to flatten the Middle East with military might.

Tony,

I live down the street from a very nice mosque.

You’re an idiot. Both of your attempts at historical parallel are silly failures.

Larry. I have no doubt you are a sane guy. I have no doubt you live down the road from a very nice mosque. We have one within four miles of here too.

That does not make me an idiot for observing that the US Administration and Israel’s Administration seem set on a course to crush Muslims and Muslim states in the Middle East. How much more evidence do you want? Palestine is being crushed before our eyes. Iraq has been flattened. Afghanistan is being flattened. Pakistan is being bombed daily. Next on the list is Iran.

I do not see how these facts make me an idiot. One of the greatest failings in US Administration decision making in foreign policy is to burn history books and not to learn from what has happened in the past. We should learn from others’ mistakes in the past, not strive to repeat them as though they were new experiences.

Calling people “idiots” is symptomatic of two attitudes – one that you have limited if not no interest in or knowledge of history – two that you consider yourself highly superior to those who happen not to agree with you 100%, 100% of the time. Please take a cold shower and review what the US is doing in the Middle East before you start calling others silly rude playground names.

cracking speech good on you craig

Tony,

You bring up Hitler and McCarthy and you whine when I call you an idiot?

Palestine is not being crushed. Could you imagine what Hitler would have done with a belligerent Palestine?

You seem to know nothing of history. Your express and implied historical parallels are completely unsupported by facts.

“Next on the list is Iran.” When are people like you going to stop saying that?

Tony, wonderful posts. Thanks for making these superb points.

If I may venture to suggest, from my experience on, and observation of, this blog over a considerable period of time, that one be wary of engaging with the very few bloggers who themselves refuse to engage with others and whose sole purpose on all threads seems to be disruption and the conveyance of provocative insult, rather than reasoned debate. Responding to them merely allows them to continue to come back and to divert and undermine reasoned analysis. There may be an irruption of precisely the sort to which I am alluding, sometime following this post. But it will be ignored by me. It is of no consequence. What is of consequence is the matter at hand.

Thanks very much again for your astute comments. Kind regards.

Failed doctor, you’re obviously easy to please. All one has to do is bring up Hitler and McCarthy and Israel, and in your simple mind that’s a cogent argument.

See what I mean, Tony.

Of course, the theme of the thread is: Israel-murder-boats-international waters-international crime-prosecution-sanction-end billions of dollars of US subsidy to Israel. Now.

Fine, Suhayl, but you explicitly approved of the above “argument” regarding Hitler and McCarthy. You went out of your way to do so.

Do you really think those were “wonderful posts”?

Larry from St Louis – if the cap fits wear it!

Larry the Liar is up to his old tricks.

So here is my reply, Hitler was a Zionist. Zionism and Nazism are the same idiology.

Israel is today’s Nazi Germany.

It is time for us to admit, Zionism has to end. The middle East carve up after WW1 has to be reversed, and the Middle east including what some call Israel has to reunify.

This can be done peacefully, but I don’t think the racist Nazis of Israel will agree to that, or it can be done by other means. To do it by other means the Muslim countries must unite and so should their armies, and remove the racist Zionist system and state.

Said @js:

“The best part is radical islamists would love to cut your head off, video tape it and send it out over the internet. Yet, you sit here and extoll their virtues. Awesome.”

That’s just demonisation, it doesn’t apply to all Palestinians, and the worst feature of such an argument is that it fails to explain what causes the radicalisation in the first place.

Most people here will condemn Palestinian suicide bombing, or the Palestinian mothers who think that their sons will go to heaven if they blow up a number of Israelis. But it is important to do so in nuanced terms: +why+ do people do such crazy things? And the blockade, and all its murderous effects, is part of the reason why. The ongoing financial support for Israel is also a factor, as is the one-sided preference amongst pro-Israel policymakers in the states. As is the annual permission to spend US aid on the military (no other state is permitted to do so, afaik). And the wider list of countries hurt by US military and economic imperialism, both recent and long gone, is well known and can be researched easily on the internet.

I don’t support suicide bombings, but given the numbers of Palestinians dead, and the ongoing persistent racism and poverty they experience every day, I can understand why they sometimes turn to terrorism. It is a consequence of madness, or an expression of futility.

Jon, I agree entirely. Interestingly, for all her faults, a few years ago Cherie Blair said exactly the same thing and got roasted for it in the media.

Suhayl Saadi: Jenny Tong of LD fame in Richmond said more or less the same and got roasted for it the first time, and thrown off the front bench the second.

Suhayl, Cherie said that? Crumbs, that is a surprise. I thought she must be stark raving mad to stick with her murderous husband despite being her being a human rights lawyer (and despite her colleagues at Matrix Chambers releasing a legal opinion that there was sufficient evidence to impeach him for high crimes and misdemeanours whilst in office).

That raises my view of her slightly. But I do take strong exception to her, aside from her choice of husband, because she testily responded to a journalist who enquired about their enormous wealth, by saying “I still regard my husband and myself as socialists”. I think it was a Sunday colour supplement interview, from a British paper, and could probably be found on the ‘net.

Oh yeah, I know. She did say that when meeting Queen Noor of Jordan for some charity work – don’t you recall it, Jon, there was a big media storm over it. I’m not defending her in any way – apart from all the sleaze and hypocrisy that came to define the ‘Court of the Blairs’, she also allegedly personally telephoned female Labour MPs to get them to vote for an attack on Iraq , and much else besides – but I rendered it as an illustration of how even the most powerful people can be brought down in an instant if they for one moment dare to criticise Israel.

I thought gaza and hamma s is at war with Israel and wants their compete annilation. Whats the excitement about?

If all you activists worked for peace for jews as well as gaza all would be well . For now the bloody jews are at war and want to survive ?Any objections?

daliya robson

Twenty people dead? You’re wrong all the way through. Intellectual poverty such as yours needs an easy target and you and your ilk have made Israel into your default whipping boy. You don’t even notice Hamas’s declaration that they want to annihilate Israel and Israelis.

Israel bad

Hamas good