That video shows absolutely nothing.

I agree eddie; but combine it with the locality, and the time, then compare with witness statements, and it maybe the correlating evidence that shows ‘everything’; especially cover-ups.

The other previous longer video shows more interesting material. The Israeli assassins had a photographic catalogue of those on the boat who were scheduled for summary execution.

These are barbarians.

eddie,

Plainly that is nit true. It is not a blank screen. Let me have your idea of what the Israeli soldiers were kicking?

How can you say that the video shows nothing eddie when it clearly does?

It shows two soldiers intently stomping and kicking something out of view, which thereafter gets shot more than once as you can clearly see the guns recoil action going through his body.

Once again, just as Craig earlier, I question the cowards who lobbied hard to exclude maritime experts being interviewd internationally on this incident.

Craig, amongst others I’m sure, would be able to give his expertise on the subject in a coherent impartial manner, regardless of his personal opinion, as are others.

So, who or what is stopping the BBC,CNN,Sky,AlJazeera news networks asking these questions, debating the issue, differentiating between piracy and an act of war, explain the ins and outs of the NATO doctrine, what paragraph 5 means to members,etc., who’s jurisdiction such an attack falls under and much more, when will we see these uncomfortable questions raised and debated as they should have been?

Not that the eddies of this world would have an answer, but they’ll try and move mountains to stop this openess from happening, upholding the bias with belligerence, diversion, and an unusual secrecy over this outrageous massacre, but also keeping it in people’s mind.

My interweb connexion is on ‘treacle mode’ so can’t watch the video; however, it does raise the point that people should go tooled up and bob wifi cameras on boats and other such vehicles. Beat them at their own game – get professional about it.

Look we all know Goy live mean nothing to Zionists.

First stage, Deny it happened.

Second stage when deniability becomes impossible, belittle what happened.

They shot a whole bunch of people. Out of them they admitted 9 died.

And the rest were beaten.

Zionists think this was a good thing. Not just a good thing, they think more should have been killed!

So what is the point of proving to them people were murdered when they support murder even though they deny it?

I have said again and again, Zionists are Nazis.

Larry is a Nazi, Michael is a Nazi they are all Nazis.

They are just going through the Nazi motions.

What do Nazis say about Jews being killed in ww2?

They say it didn’t happen, and they say more should have been killed.

Now, what is the difference between what they say, and what the Zionist Nazis say?

The issue isn’t about whether they were murdered. The issue is Israel and Israel’s supporters will always support each and every murder Israel does, not just support, but they will call on Israel to murder more.

One has to wonder what all the “confiscated” material the Israelis stole from the crew might have shown. How come the old adage “if one has nothing to fear, one has nothing to hide” does not hold when it comes to this bunch of thugs? How come the criminals who murdered these innocents get to decide what evidence may be released?

“Let me have your idea of what the Israeli soldiers were kicking?”

Probably just a rat. A big one though or they wouldn’t have bothered shooting it.

Dick: Israel jammed all communications from the boat and (tried to) confiscate all recordings. AFAIK there were a lot of recordings (stills, handheld video, CCTV).

I haven’t seen the full hour-long Iara Lee video, only the 15 min version in Craig’s previous post.

However I was very struck by the fact that Lee was still filming at dawn, a couple of hours after the initial attack, when the Israeli assault boats came alongside. I took this to mean that the helicopter assault actually failed. Not only were three commandos captured, but the rest were penned up in a small part of the ship, or had to be taken off.

I note that we haven’t had the media doing diagrams of the assault – the Sunday Times used to love doing this kind of thing when I was young – and the sequence of events still remains confused.

I’m sure the viciousness of the Israelis has a lot to do with the fact that they were really in trouble. Much more trouble than we have been given to think.

Mainstream media are afraid of the Israelis, as demonstrated by BBC boss Mark Thompson’s grovelling to war criminal Ariel Sharon in 2005.

I’m sure we’d all have good reason not to fund Israeli propaganda by refusing to pay the licence fee.

Or maybe not. The whole thing is like some sick perverted joke.

Alexno, I also have my doubts about their effectviness, because usually they are not that coy and secretive when they conduct a rogue military mission.

Maybe that the only reason why theyr have confiscated everything, they made a right cock up and had to shoot their way out fo trouble, but, some activists seem to have been killed in a deliberate fashion, as if there was a hit list.

The lack of intricate disection and debate of the laws and conventions involved, by the global media is deafening like silence in a desert.

I have not had any reply from my MP to my letter questioning the Government for not condemning Israel for its breaches of international rights, not a dicky bird.

Perhaps Eddie should go to Israel and get some new high performance specs for his defective vision. I am sure he will find some there as we are always being told by the Zionist trolls how the terror state is in the vanguard of technological achievement.

Where are his mates Larry and Michael P?

The latter kneeling at his altar as it is the Sabbath?

“To cloud this straightforward issue, Israel immediately attempted to control the coverage by kidnapping and holding the human rights activists incommunicado for several days. Israel also took the activists’ recording devices and videos. Thus Israel was able to spread its version of events without challenge in the crucially important first few days.

Unlike most of the U.S. mainstream media that simply parroted Israeli military sources, a few reporters including Max Blumenthal (http://maxblumenthal.com/) actually investigated Israeli claims. They found several Israeli misrepresentations and, as a result, Israel retracted or clarified some of its key false charges. Blumenthal said: “The lesson of the debacle is that nothing the IDF [the Israeli military] says can be trusted by anyone. Not ever.”

Most of the activists are now free and their stories strongly contradict the Israeli version. However, since many of the mainstream media have now moved on to other stories, Israel’s false version of events is still out there and accepted as gospel by many.”

http://www.palestinechronicle.com/view_article_details.php?id=16055

The government’s efforts to avoid a thorough and credible investigation of the flotilla affair seem more and more like a farce.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/the-public-has-a-right-to-know-1.295797

The Haaretz haaretz.com/

also reported today that the Israel risks losing Poland, another close ally, over the extradition of Uri Brodsky, who is widely believed to be one of the Mossad spies allegedly involved in the January assassination.

Brodsky, who is an Israeli citizen, was arrested earlier this month in Poland’s capital city of Warsaw after revelations showed that he helped the Mossad hit squad to obtain forged German passports to assassinate al-Mabhouh in a Dubai hotel room.

Germany has demanded that Brodsky be extradited, where he could be tried in a German court or even sent to Dubai for his suspected role in the assassination.

Brodsky has denied having connections with the high-profile assassination and says he is a businessman, but evidence show him being involved in logistics, providing paperwork, safe houses and other back-up for the 20-strong execution squad.

Israel, for its part, is pressuring Poland to refrain from handing Brodsky over to Germany — leaving Warsaw officials in an awkward position, in which they are torn between Tel Aviv’s demands and Berlin’s repeated calls for Brodsky’s extradition.

This is while Germany and Poland have an extradition agreement, both bilateral and through European treaties.

However, Polish officials have strived to keep the lid on Brodsky’s arrest, which was based on information provided by the Dubai and United Arab Emirates police and on an international arrest warrant issued in Germany via Interpol.

btw:

The official inquiry into the unlawful killing of 14 unarmed men by British soldiers on Bloody Sunday is due to be released after 12 years.

The probe known as the Saville report will be released on Tuesday.

According to some Israelis, the soldiers should be condemned for not killing enough activists:

http://theonlydemocracy.org/2010/06/some-israeli-public-reaction-to-the-flotilla-tragedy/

The Zionist Trolls are conspicuous by their absence trying to defend this IDF actions in this Video. Normally they would be more vocal crying antisemitism, self defence, racism. They know they do not have any argument moral, legal or human to justify such callous murder of unarmed civilians before the eyes of the wold. Regev the chief Hasbara spokesman has become an international Joke trying to justify Israeli Atrocities only the BBC and US MSM take him seriously. See this Excellent piece.

‘You’re talking bollox, Mr Regev ?” A short primer on Israeli propaganda for media dummies’

By ShazmanPublished: June 13, 2010

http://www.perdana4peace.org/

In the mean time those other Hasbara members the Labour friends of Israel the cabinet within the cabinet are getting more ambitious. They no longer want to rule UK by proxy they are promoting one of their own Hasbara members in a phony election Millipede versus Centipede.Both horses from the LFI Hasbara Stable.

Posted by: at June 13, 2010 3:09 PM

They will be here, straight after they get instructions.

The samething happens everytime Israel does something like this, we get a bit of quite, and then they come back in greater numbers.

Craig why was my post and link to Norman F deleted?

maybe they just don’t work on a Sunday?

It’s 07:34 here in Seattle. Jesus, let me have my coffee.

One or two things wrong with this.

First, an eagle with 20-20 vision and night-vision goggles couldn’t see anyone being shot or kicked.

Second, the soldiers couldn’t have been Israelis, because – as Borat tells us – Jews have horns.

Third, the organisation which owned the ship, IHH, is affiliated with the Union of Good, an umbrella organisation created and controlled by Hamas. Therefore, the Mavi Marmara was within the Hamas chain of command and a military vessel feigning civilian status and misusing whatever flag she was flying.

Fourth, all the men who were killed were mujahidin and therefore not protected civilians, because they were Muslim men past adolescence and responding to the call to wage jihad.

Why were they not in uniform, and what business did this warship have taking others on board who were civilians in good faith?

“…they made a right cock up”

They seem to have been making a few of these recently. Having the Dubai hit plastered all over the TV and press was a little careless. As was getting caught out presenting 6 year old photos of the aid-workers’ ‘weapons’. Not to mention the amateurishly-faked video footage and audio transmissions.

What has happened to Mossad? Can’t they get the staff these days? Perhaps it should change its motto to: “By way of deception, thou shalt appear a bumbling buffoon”.

Please, in the interests of transparency, can we see the footage leading up to this incident?

OMG. So Craig Murray, once again you’ve demonstrated an inability to correctly judge evidence when you really really want to believe something.

At best (for your position), this video shows IDF soldiers kicking a man when he’s down. But I wonder if he had just attacked the IDF soldiers, and I wonder if he was trying to get up to continue his attack. Some of these fuckers do intend to be martyrs at some point.

But 4 kill shots? Ha! I count exactly zero discharges coming out of that weapon. He points the weapon down twice and checks his clip (or something like that) once.

What’s with the red target outline placed there by the video producers? Probably to obscure the fact that THERE WAS NO FUCKING MUZZLE FLASH.

Craig, if you get called for jury duty and one of the parties is a Jew (or “Zionist” in your words), you should recuse yourself.

I have said that Michael Petek was a Nazi Before, and with this comment:

Michael Petek at June 13, 2010 3:37 PM

Michael Petek has confirmed everything I have said about him, including what Craig has deleted.

“therefore not protected civilians, because they were Muslim men ”

What I have said about him and Larry has been confirmed.

His point 1 and 2 are what I call the “Deny”

His point three and for are what I call the “Support and call for more”

He is a Nazi as can be seen by the Nazi Arguments he uses.

Everyone read this.

And this confirms what I wrote.

With one mouth the Nazi state the murders didn’t take place, and with the other they support the murders. Not just support they call for more, according to this Nazi, all Muslim men can and should be killed.

But the truth is the killings are not restricted to men, they kill women and babies too. And when they do, whether it is in secret or infront of Cameras,

Michael Petek will still deny it. When he and other Nazis can’t think of how to deny it they will say:

“the soldiers couldn’t have been Israelis, because – as Borat tells us – Jews have horns.”

Larry the liar,

Do you agree with what your religious version says?

Do you agree with:

“therefore not protected civilians, because they were Muslim men”

Or do you believe he is a Nazi for saying it?

“Second, the soldiers couldn’t have been Israelis, because – as Borat tells us – Jews have horns.”

I find myself completely unable to tell whether this is Michael P or a ‘false-flag’ mockery.

Either way, it has the effect of making coherent discussion seem like an impossibility.

Michael Petek is hilarious – I find his contributions really side-splittingly funny. Roll on, Michael, give us more! You should be on stage, man.

Larry – Turkish (aka Greek coffee aka Cyprus coffee aka Arabic coffee) coffee is particularly good for maintaining alertness. Perhaps you might visit a delicatessan and buy some. I would recommend it. But there again, you’ve got the Seattle Coffee Company right where you are. Don;t drink too much though, it might keep you awake all night and we can’t be having that, can we.

The confiscation of cameras, etc. will lead an endless discussion about whether such-and-such footage was or was not indicative of so-and-so.

The crux is that nine people were killed violently by Israeli armed forces on a ship in international waters. I keep coming back to this fact.

Craig,

Anyone,

do you know where to find an original for this video? These Flash videos are not fit to inspect closely. The originals should be posted for download somewhere.

Larry,

I think I can see muzzle flashes, but I can’t be sure because the SWF video quality is dreadful.

Richard Robinson

The thing is Craig can’t tell too.

He has accused me of false flagging as Michael.

I have already told Angry that Michael does their cause more harm than good.

I am not Michael, I think we have posted at about the same time now so he can check IPs and see they are different.

Michael goes beyond my worst Parodies of a rabid Zionist.

I think in this case truth might just be stranger than fiction.

He might just be for real?

Well put, Arsalan Goldberg.

Clark: “I think I can see muzzle flashes, but I can’t be sure because the SWF video quality is dreadful.”

So you can see through the red target outline placed there by the video producers?

Seems odd that they would deliberately obscure evidence that would tend to either prove or disprove the allegation, doesn’t it?

They could have used an arrow – instead, there’s that red target outline. Why?

Arsalan, you f***ing twister, if you’re going to quote me, at least do it correctly:

” . . . all the men who were killed were mujahidin and therefore not protected civilians, because they were Muslim men PAST ADOLESCENCE AND RESPONDING TO THE CALL TO WAGE JIHAD.”

Michael Petek, one small question: what the hell are you talking about?

Larry,

I don’t care about that. I want a clearer video image, as I hope you do, too. However, there are also a lot of eyewitness accounts, and the four bullets found in this young man’s remains.

http://www.juancole.com/2010/06/video-shows-israeli-commando-executing-american.html

WARNING: THIS VIDEO IS ALSO VERY UPSETTING:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJI6xg4-7B8

MJ

What he is saying is clear. It is just that he is so twisted we refuse to see it.

What he is saying is Israel has a right to kill them. Not because the soldiers were defending themselves against the unarmed, but because the men they killed were Muslim men.

What he is saying is Muslim men have no right to life.

That anyone is allowed to kill them.

Because he says, every Muslim man should be seen as a soldier, whether armed, whether unarmed. whether fighting, sleeping or shitting on a toilet.

Basicly he is saying about Muslims what Hitler said about Jews.

He is a Nazi.

And look at his last post?

The justification for killing Turks on a ship is Some people in Iraq killed some Christians during American occupatio.

He fails to mention before American occupation, under Saddam the deputy leader was a Christian!!!!

So was the head of the Army!

There were Christian all over the government!

When did it Change?

When did Christian start being Killed?

Under American Zionist rule!!!

No muzzle flash. No ejection of any cartridge. No recoil. Absolutely zero evidence that the weapon was discharged.

Larry, so what is the answer.

Is Micheal PAtek a Nazi or not?

In answer to your small question, MJ, what the hell I’m talking about is this.

According to the manual of Islamic law, Ummdat as-Salik (Reliance of the Treveller), everyone is obligated to jihad who is a Muslim male, past the age of puberty and sane.

The Mavi Marmara and Hamas were at both ends of a military chain of command, which makes the Marmara, by status, equivalent to a warship, though feigning civilian status. So were the men who were shot, as they had boarded the vessel in answer to the summons to jihad issued by Hamas.

Pretending to be a civvy is perfidy and liable to get you shot in cold blood even after capture.

Ummdat as-Salik also states that jihad is etymologically related to mujahada, which connotes war to establish the religion.

If someone declares and wages eternal war against infidels, don’t be surprised if some of them hit back, kill the mujahidin and do all sorts of gruesome things to them.

Here is a YouTube video from which the above was taken. It has sound.

http://www.youtube.com/user/TrabzonumTV#p/a/u/1/n3qGF9amIHw

The clip above does not appear to be the moment of the killing. About six seconds later, three shots can be heard, and then another. Gun smoke is then seen.

MJ

What he is saying is “Kill all those Niggers”

With the addition of a few words here from books he is to thick to read let alone understand.

And this is the Zionist mentality, the Nazi mentality.

If you want to understand how people kill the unarmed, whether in Nazi Germany of Zionist Palestine, this idiot is your answer..

Larry is right. The video clip in Craig’s post shows a soldier preparing his gun. Craig’s clip is wrong by six seconds.

Congratulations, Larry. This man did indeed live six seconds longer than the clip above indicates.

And yes, Larry, maybe it was some other gun that is heard to fire, and the smoke was from something else. But ultimately, there is a body where there was a 19 year old man.

“The video clip in Craig’s post shows a soldier preparing his gun.”

“This man did indeed live six seconds longer”

Evidence?

Or should we just take your word for it?

I said it before. For the Zionists it isn’t about whether the Zionists murdered the people on the ship. Because they already agree with any murder Israel will ever do, or has ever done.

When they say “Israel didn’t murder” it is a false flag. Because even if Israel did murder they would support it. Just look at what Micheal patak is saying. He is calling for the killing of every Muslim man!

And makes no secret of it.

What he does is justify it.

He justifies it by pointing at the Islamic religion, and justifies it by attacks on others.

Larry you didn’t answer my question about Micheal, do you agree with him that every Muslim man should be killed or is he a Nazi?

Larry if you don’t answer, I will take it that you share his Nazi beliefs because you are on the same side as him and refuse to distance yourself from him when asked.

Michael Petek: I rather doubt that the ship was under Hamas control. That just sounds like panicky, post de facto Israeli propaganda to me. But even if it were true that the whole operation was under the Hamas control the point surely is that the ship was carrying nothing but food and medical aid, the passengers had no weapons and it was sailing perfectly legally in international waters.

The lengths you are prepared to go to defend the indefensible is truly breathtaking.

Obviously, Arslan, you can’t read capital letters, can you?

All people have to do is go to my previous posts under this head to see for themselves what a liar you are.

Larry,

are you in favour of a full and impartial international inquiry?

Did you check the link I posted? If so, what do you think? It seems pretty clear to me. You were right, the soldier checks his clip. Then we hear four shots, but the camera is pointing elsewhere. The camera turns back, smoke, probably gun smoke, drifts towards the camera. OK, it’s not proof in itself. But I expect that this documents Furkan Dogan’s execution. How do you rate the balance of probability?

These mujahedin blew up Christians in Iraq:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJI6xg4-7B8

These mujahedin got in the way of some Israelis:

http://www.truemarmara.org/

Same jihad, same shit.

I propose a vote. Is Michael Petek actually serious? I vote that he’s playing a part. I really can’t believe that he believes the things he posts. He quotes Borat!

Mj

To Michael PAtek it doesn’t matter whether the Ship was filled with Hamas, or not. As long as the people killed were Muslims, they can be killed.

Why?

Just look at his justifications:

Justification 1:

Muslims kill people, so if a Muslim, any Muslim any where kills someone. Lets say in Iraq. It is ok to kill all Muslims. So Israel was right to kill Muslims on that ship.

Justification 2>

He regards all Muslim men as fighters.

So it doesnt matter whether or not they were Hamas. Because they were Muslim me, they can be killed.

Larry you are refusing to distance yourself from him.

Is it because you agree with him?

Which is it Larry?

Is Michael Patek a Nazi or not?

http://sheikyermami.com/wp-content/uploads/article-1211414-064DD132000005DC-417_636x525.jpg

http://www.bristol.indymedia.org.uk/attachments/sep2009/edl_supporters.jpg

Larry,

what about my questions to you?

Larry,

Do you deny that this is your site?

http://blamebush.typepad.com/about.html

http://blamebush.typepad.com/

Arsalan – “The thing is Craig can’t tell too.”

Yes, I remember that exchange. I think that was what led me to notice it; he’s become his own parody.

Anybody who quotes Borat as though it were a factual reference is clearly taking the piss out of something. Maybe he’ll tell us what, eventually. In the meantime, the sillier a statement is, the more it works as a troll – there’s always someone who feels the need to correct it.

http://xkcd.com/386/

Life’s too short.

McIntyre, yes, I deny that that’s my site. cnn.com and meatspin.com are likewise not my sites.

Larry you are not answering my question, is Michael a Nazi for wanting all Muslim Men dead or not??

Here the Zionists and Nazis have united,

Because Nazis found Muslims didn’t want anything to do with them and Zionists found only Nazis are willing to unite with them.

http://balder.org/judea/billeder-judea/Cartoon-Zionazi-BNP.jpg

But you said you were in St Louis, and now you say you’re in Seattle.

So how can we believe you Larry?

McIntyre, occasionally people buy plane tickets and go to other places. Happens all the time in fact. You should have seen the airport the other day. People coming, people going.

Are you that stupid?

Richard Robinson I think it might have got to the stage where Michael Patek no longer knows what he says as fact and what he says as a parady?

He may well have lost all touch with reality?

I’ve noticed that a lot with extreme rightin general and Zionist Christians who are always extreme right in particuler.

They just say things and do things without knowing or caring about what they say and do.

And I think Israel has got to this stage too. In the past Israel acted like a lunitic state, because Israel believed if they acted as such no one will touch them.

I think Israel has now crossed the line, Israel is no longer acting and has now become a lunitic state.

It has got to the stage now when they are attacking fellow Zionist Jews as antisemites, attacking ships of its allies on the high seas. It has lost all conection with reality and so has its supporters.

In the past Zionists used to secretly work togeather with far right Nazis.

Now they demonstrate hand in hand!!

You see Zionist Jews waving Nazi flags!

You see Zionist Jews holding hands with skinheaded Nazis waving Israeli flags in the streets of London.

They have united with the people who put jews in consentration camps. not secretly, but openly.

They have lost all connection with reality.

And if the Nazi they are supporting now ever take power, it would be too late. Because the Nazi have made clear on their websites that they are only supporting Israel because they need Jewish support to take power, once in power they want to complete what they tried to do before.

“You should have seen the airport the other day. People coming, people going.”

That proves where you are, no question.

I say you’re in California. Whether or no, BlameBush is your site and that’s how you ended up here. Someone quoted CraigMurray.org on BlameBush. Right, Larry?

As I said before, the video shows absolutely nothing. Apart from a great big circle and great big arrow pointing at something indistinct and with added tendentious text. Any fule can play that game. The Iranians have done exactly the same with the Neda video.

I still maintain that blamebush is not my site. I just looked there, and it appears that the last post made there was in Jan. 2009. I could be wrong, though.

I also still maintain that cnn.com and meatspin.com are also not my sites. For that matter, I am also not the site owner of facebook.com and google.com.

Have a look at

http://blamebush.typepad.com/

and see Larry’s genius for right-wing “humor”. He’s too shy to admit it. They do a lot of Muslim-bashing over there too.

Have a look at

http://blamebush.typepad.com/about.html

and read his fake biography. Which happens to say he’s in Seattle.

McIntyre, I will have to say that, out of all of Craig Murray’s associates, you seem to be the least dumb. You’re still miserably stupid, however.

“I just looked there, and it appears that the last post made there was in Jan. 2009.”

That would be because it’s BlameBush, and not BlameObama. You’re a GOP-er Larry, aren’t you. You mock American Democrats and your site is Islamophobic.

McIntyre, your detective skills are startling.

I’ll be leaving the Seattle area in a week. Then what?

“That would be because it’s BlameBush, and not BlameObama. You’re a GOP-er Larry, aren’t you. You mock American Democrats and your site is Islamophobic.”

Has ANYONE been to that site since Jan. 2009?

You do know that the world is a real big place don’t you?

http://yfrog.com/jpmonkeysj

Ain’t no way Larry welcome back here in St Louis!

You boyz jussa tell Larry stay put in dat dam Seattle cathouse pimpin’ fer Massa Silverstein.

Massa tungstein anna me jussa dun drinkin’ ev’lass drop Larry’s licker anna now weez gon ‘joy hissa wife too!

If Massa Craig don’ deleet da link yawl can look ussa up on redtube!

We’ll be havin’ a ball!

P.S. Our video looka hole lot betta dan wochin dem Zraelis shootin’ up dat goddam ship!

He’s getting uppitty and angry now he’s been outted.

“Has ANYONE been to that site since Jan. 2009?”

What has that got to do with who owns or wrote it Larry?

McIntyre,

Good work and very funny. Thanks.

Larry, it is you!!!!

http://blamebush.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451c11469e2010536cb0d72970c-pi

I got the feeling your writing style came from a small man complex?

Better get censoring, Craig!

Cathouse Larry’s having a break-down!

This link is especially for him:

HOLOCAUST FOR DUMMIES

http://globalfire/tv/nj/06en/jews/holofordummies.htm

Oh shit, Larry is an even bigger lunitic on his website than he is here!!!!!!!!!!

When he isn’t talking about how small his own testicles are he talks about how hairless other peoples ones are!

Larry, I have picked two articles, both were about testicles. I don’t think I am going to read any more stuff from your website.

I can guess what the rest of your page talks about?

Are all Zionist Nazi that way inclind?

I nominate Michael Petek for an Equity card. Any seconders?

But at least Michael doesn’t make a habit of issuing personal threats against individuals.

Tell me, Larry, will “something horrible” happen to us or to those around us?

If so, can you specify, exactly what?

Remember to sip that Turkish coffee, slowly, now.

Suhayl Saadi

I disagree, I think the Zionists get more crazy as we go along.

Angry is a Zionist, Larry is a rabid zionists who hates Muslims and Micheal is such an extereme Zionist that he openly and repeatedly says he wants all Muslim men dead, which doesn’t do his argument defending the Israeli story lines much good.

I bet the next one will be even more crazy!

I believe the next Zionist would want everyone on earth other than Jews in Israel who voted Benyamin Natanyahu dead!

I am delighted that Arsalan and others here got to read your site, Larry. It’s a GOP-ers free for all and a pro-Zionist enclave. And anything goes there, no standards, no morals, nothing to recommend it to a person of conscience. War war war and kill those filthy Palestinians and bomb Iran as soon as possible. That’s BlameBush in a nutshell.

Be proud, Larry. That’s what you hosted.

“HEH CRAIG MURRAY, WHAT’S IT FEEL LIKE TO ASSOCIATE YOURSELF WITH HOLOCAUST DENIERS, 911 TRUTHERS AND/OR COMPLETE MORONS?”

Lawrence of America, 13th June, 2010, 1830 hrs

The repeated use, by our Seattle-visiting buddy, of massed capitals – and, in other posts, of prolonged vowels – is a sign.

A sign that Michael Petek is the Second Coming. Or possibly the Third Coming. Or possibly The Beast.

“Issue that man with an FBI pass!”

J. Edgar Hoover, to the man in the pink tie.

Larry, do you prefer to sport pink ties, by any chance? Were you at Woodstock? Or were you in the sack?

The picture is not clear, but it looks as though someone on the floor is being kicked and then shot. The matter merits investigation, even if someone shot at the Israelis first and lost his life as a consequence.

‘McIntyre’, while mightily pleased at your timely and poignant irruption into this cybersation, out of curiosity, who are you? And how do you know Lawrence of America? Do you wear a raincoat? Does it rain in Georgia only in September? Are you ‘M’, or ‘C’, or ‘L’, or ‘Z’?

Abe, yes, I agree, it merits investigation. Furthermore, there is no evidence to date of any guns having been on board the ship, no evidence of anyone shooting bullets at the Israelis.

What, Arsalan, you don’t think that Michael would be a sensation in Vaudeville? In fact, I see them as a duo; Lawrence of America could be the ‘straight’ guy. How ’bout it, guys? Think of it. Fame. Lights. That shivery feeling you get when you think of… J. Edgar Hoover.

War Criminal & Warmonger Averts French Court Move…

Ehud Barak cancels France visit due to flotilla commission

Barak staying out of France because of flotilla

Defense Ministry reports that Barak will remain in Israel until team of experts investigating flotilla raid announced. Over weekend, sail participants declared intention to sue defense minister

Roni Sofer

Published: 06.13.10, 12:09 / Israel News

Defense Minister Ehud Barak unexpectedly announced Sunday morning that he will not be traveling to Paris for the international military exhibition, Eurosatory.

The Defense Ministry reported that Minister Barak decided to remain in Israel until the team of experts investigating the raid on the Gaza-bound flotilla is announced.

Over the weekend, French activists who took part in the flotilla to the Gaza Strip announced that they intend to file a lawsuit against Barak both in France and in the International Criminal Court in The Hague. Three members of French parliament have joined the effort.

Barak was slated to leave Sunday morning for an official two-day visit to Paris, where he would inaugurate the Israeli booth at the international military exhibition and meet with defense and foreign ministers.

On Friday, political officials said that Barak had no intention of canceling his trip, and that the legal department of the Foreign Ministry along with others in the judicial system were taking action to provide him with adequate defense should the case indeed be filed. However, at the last minute, Barak did indeed decide to cancel.

Regarding his previous visit to Paris, Barak was harshly criticized by State Comptroller Micha Lindenstrauss regarding his delegation’s extravagant hotel expenses at the Paris Air Show in 2009.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3904272,00.html

“Do you wear a raincoat?”

I do indeed, when appropriate. I do not know Lawrence personally. Exposing fraudsters on the web has become something of a hobby for me. I’ll bid you G’day now.

Good. Thanks, ‘somebody’.

If the video were to be magnified, lit, cleaned-up, and slowed-down, it might just be possible to get some faces.

Not that Craig cannot defend himself, but I would suggest that his association to holocaust deniers and 911 truthers is as close than his association to you, Larry: they happen to post comments in this board.

By the way, if you and Michael here are the best the harbara can offer zionism is indeed in trouble.

Thank you, McIntyre. And may your journeys be ever fruitful.

“A sign that Michael Petek is the Second Coming. Or possibly the Third Coming. Or possibly The Beast.”

Michael Petek is the whore of Babylon, the mother of all Harlots.

Or at least he serves her?

Actually he does?

Come to think of it he does!!!!

Christian Zionist support Israel, because they believe it will speed up the rapture, bring on the rule of the antichrist, resulting in Christ coming to kill him.

That means he supports Israel because he thinks Israel is the Whore of Babylon due to be lead by the beast!

He does this thinking he will have time to change sides at the last minute when Jesus comes.

He is knowingly serving the Whore of Babylon, the mother of Harlots.

Hay guys, this isn’t an insult or a Parady. It is actually his beliefs, you can do a search for Christian Zionist theology to confirm it.

Am I right Michael, is that what you are up to?

When ever I read Islamic or Christian books about the rapture, I always found it difficult to understand how people could serve the antichrist when he is so clearly evil.

Why could’t they see the person they serve is the antichirst..

But the issue is, people like Micheal serve him with their eyes wide open. Serve him knowing exactly who he is and what he is, with the mistaken belief they can change side in the last minute!

I also found it difficult to understand how people like micheal could serve a country as anti Christian as Israel.

But I understand now, He is serving who he believes is the whore of babylon, thinking the Anti Christ will come to lead that country and then he will be able to serve the antichirst to spead up the rapture!

Me and Arsalan a double act on stage?

Give over!

You’d have to pay both of us.

With Omid Djalili, you only need to pay one.

Coming to a country near you.

A knock on the door from the FBI(the Fascist Bureau of Investigation). Protest at your peril

http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2010/06/12/the-fbi-knocks-at-my-door/

Our Hasbarat Shills Utd. seem to be in some disarray.

Get back here,Craig and get censoring now!

They’re sayin’ I ain’t got no balls!

Get your butt back here now!

Apostate,

Freeborn,

Steelback,

Juniper,

Tungsten

I do not believe that the Jewish Holocaust of WWII is a lie. Nor do I believe that there is a Jewish conspiracy to subjugate the world. I find the articles you have linked to offensive.

I denounce your tactic of posting under multiple names as an abuse of the open policy of this site.

To any reader,

though I lack conclusive evidence (IP addresses), I am totally convinced that the five names listed above are all the same person.

Seconded, Clark, and thanks.

Larry it isn’t us saying you have no balls, it is you saying you have very small ones:

http://blamebush.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451c11469e2010536cb0d72970c-pi

But I think we all knew that from reading what you write here, so we didn’t need to see a confession in your own site.

Clark

I think a distiction needs to be made between those that don’t believe a Holocaust took place 60 years ago and those that support one that is taking place right now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B7ijMjc2Js

What I am saying is it isn’t the likes of freeborn etc who attack the memory of the people who died in the holocoast. It is the likes of Larry and Michael, who use their deaths to justify the deaths of others who piss on the graves of Hitlers Jewish victims.

Freeborn and co is a friend who I/we have major disagreements with. But we can work togeather because he/they do not call for the deaths of anyone. He/they are against people being killed and oppression.

He/they don’t support what hitler did, I never heard him say such a thing or read it on his links.

So he is not the enemy, he is a friend that we disagree with.

Larry, Micheal and the other Zionists are the enemy, they support deaths, torture and war.

They support hate and strife.

When the Zionists say Israel has killed no Palestinians, they all ways make clear that they wish Israel did. And they will still support Israel if it did.

Micheal makes it clear that he supports the killing of ALL MUSLIM MEN.

He has said this many times. And LArry has never attacked him for it even when asked.

Freeborn has never called for the killing of all Jews, no one here has.

Because We all know the real Jews are on our side.

The real Jews were on those boats being beaten up by the same Zionists who shot the turks. The real Jews are always at the front of our antiZionist demonstrations.

We all know this.

Arsalan: they are ‘against oppression’? You know that the people who deny the Holocaust also tend to hate Muslims, don’t you?

I must have missed those comments of Petek’s. I suggest you email Craig with them and ask for a retraction or a ban. Other rpoblems with him aside, I have never heard Larry argue for the killing of anyone.

You are getting confused with the Jewish issue, my friend (and I feel friendly towards you). You are starting to believe your own propaganda about ‘real Jews’. I understand, about the Israeli regime, since in the same way Bush et al were patently not ‘real’ Christians. But most Jewish people are sick to death of slaughter and hate and have no idea what to do about it. Just as you had no idea how to stop Blair from attacking Iraq. I don’t see any comment from you on the recent peace protests inside Israel, for example. Would that be because they don’t suit your agenda? Please don’t be blinded.

What we now need is an attack by Israel on Iran….come on you know you want to do it……

Larry,

I deleted some holocaust denial comments tgis morning but I’ve bben watching the World Cup since. It’s one of the few things I do delete.

I haven’t said anything about the video showing someone being shot four times. What it does show undoubtedly is Israeli soldiers repeatedly kicking something or someone on the floor while pointing their guns at it or them. Without more analysis it is not plain if it shows them shooting.

Given the context and othe rinformation we have available, we can be reasonably sure it is a person they are kicking and covering with their guns. Plainly that person is in no position to threaten them and the one thing this video indubitably does not show is Israeli soldiers acting in self defence.

Arsalan,

I basically agree with you. I have two criticisms of Apostate under his various names. I followed his ‘goodnewsaboutgod’ link by ‘Freeborn’ at 6:56 PM, to a page that blames and accuses Jews in general. And I regard his use of multiple names as essentially dishonest.

The posting of such links plays into the hands of violent Zionism by giving them grounds to shout “Antisemitism!”. And his posting under multiple names, that appear to be five people backing each other up amplifies the problem, opening us to accusations of being ‘infested with antisemites’.

clark

what are the timings of the offending entries? I’ll delete them. Holocaust denial and racism are red lines.

To be fair to Apostate (Freeborn), about a fifth of the way through, the ‘goodnewsaboutgod’ article makes a distinction between “elitist Jews” and “rank and file Jews”. He is welcome to study such stuff himself, but I see no place for it here, where it is counter productive. Israeli atrocities should be criticised in their own right, not as some extension to a conspiracy theory about WWII.

Craig,

comments around June 13, 2010 6:56 PM, that’s the one with the link. Look and see what you think.

‘Freeborn’ arrived at 5:43. Steelback posted at 6:09. I don’t know about the book references.

Apostate at June 13, 2010 7:07 PM, but I don’t know what the link is like because it doesn’t work.

Apostate’s 7:07 is a Holocaust denial link with one character mistyped.

I gave censored various comments. Arsalan calm down abd stop calling anyone who disagrees with you a Nazi.

The sad thing re-Mr Murray’s deletions of Holocaust revisionist material is his assumption that none of it could possibly come from Jewish sources.

A typical example of precisely the Hollywood Holocaust propaganda the establishment left absorbed with their mother’s milk.

Edwin Black who wrote The Transfer Agreement re-how Nazi-Zionist collaboration during the 1930s built the infra-structure of what became the Israeli state-is Jewish.

Hennecke Kardel who described the same collaboration in Hitler:Founder of Israel-is Jewish.

David Cole who went to the Auschwitz “extermination” camp and returned adamant that it was no such thing and said so on the Phil Donahue Show was hounded into hiding by B’nai B’rith/ADL thugs-is Jewish.

Why Mr Murray are you censoring Jewish researchers and abetting Zionist lies and propaganda?

Obviously you take the patently ethnocentric line that all Jews are Zionists.

P.S. Can you answer the question you were asked about 3 hours ago-are you or are you not running a Holocaust-fundamentalist website here?

Anti-Zionist Holocaust researchers are rotting in prison because they challenge-and fully document their evidence-the indecently threadbare Holocaust establishment narrative.

You are deleting all references to Zionist involvement in international finance,Reform Judaism,the Holocaust,911,7/7 and all the other crimes against humanity for which there is abundant evidence they are responsible.

Just how long do you really think it’s going to be possible for you remain in denial?

Michael – if it was Michael and not some other astral body – yes, Omid Djalili is superb!

I agree, Clark, just as come of Michael’s comments (though I’m never sure which of them emanate from Michael Petek and which from Beelzebub or the spirit of Farrokh Bulsara) make it more difficult for aggressive pro-Israel commentators to be taken seriously herein, so some of Apostate’s make it more difficult for critics of the Israeli state’s actions to make those criticisms without being tarnished with the same brush, as well as increasing the risk of the site being unfairly and LOUDLY ‘branded’ at every available opportunity (as you’ve pointed out and as has been demonstrated very recently in this thread).

I’m not sure whether either of those points requires censoring of the relevant comments. I think, though, on balance it’s better to try and do what you’ve suggested, I sense, and what Craig’s doing and achieve a sensible modulation wit some basic ground-rules. It’s a blog, therefore it has an opinion wrt certain matters. If people want to read stuff ‘beyond the red flags’, there are plenty of other places on the web to find it.

Holocaust denial is a red line!

What the…?

Are you taking it upon yourself to invent hate laws that haven’t even been passed yet?

Holocaust fundamentalism is an infringement against free speech not to mention it’s an insult to people’s intelligence.

Is there anything else you want to censor,Mr Murray?

You just trashed your liberal credentials Big Time!

How pathetic!

Like any historian worthy of the name is going to start researching a topic by giving a prior guarantee s/he will not challenge the establishment narrative?

What sort of historical research is that for God’s sake?

Excuse me while I vomit….

Any Niall Ferguson books you want to recommend?

Does anyone know that we have reached the stage in this country that the ConDems have just appointed the first ‘Post Holocaust Envoy’!?! Why?

Appointee Sir Andrew Burns, former UK Ambassador to Israel and former chairman of the Anglo-Israel Association.

Appointer Wm Hague who joined the Friends of Israel at the age of 15.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/politics/10276710.stm

As I have explained before, I have reason to know quite a lot about the death camps from first hand testimony.

People should be allowed to argue the earth is flat, if they wish. But holocause denial is almost always accompanied by nasty racist views, so its just out.

This is my site. You can post what you want on your site. I don’t want to stop you, nor do I think that David Irving should have been imprisoned. But I don’t want it on my site.

Craig it I am not calling people who disagree with me a Nazi. Near enough everybody here disagrees with me, and I disagree with near enough everybody here.

I call Micheal a Nazi because he has stated that all Muslim men Should be killed.

So when I call him a Nazi it isn’t about me saying “Well that you say all Muslim men should be killed, I say they shouldn’t lets talk about it”.

And he hasn’t just said it once, he says it over and over again.

Posted by: Michael Petek at June 13, 2010 3:37 PM

His forth point.

Craig take that line, replace Jew with Muslim.

Does it sound like a disagreement now?

Or does it sound like Nazism?

And you know he has said that same things many times, on many posts.

I am not screaming Nazi the way those bastards scream antisemite.

I am calling Nazis, Nazis when they call for the extermination of a whole people.

And even though I disagree with Freeborn and co, I don’t consider what they/he does as crossing the line. If you used the same rule of holocoast denial on the Zionists, you would delete every post they make, because they always deny what ever Israel does, just before they justify it.

Freeborn, has never done to the Zionists what they do to others. He has never called for bad things to happen to them the way the Zionists, especially Micheal calls for the extermination of all Muslim men.

True he does his own side no service by those statements. But Angry and Larry have never disasociated themselves from it.

technicolour

I know the people who support the holocoast are against Muslims. And you can see them marching hand in hand waving Israeli flags while giving Nazi salutes all over the UK now. I have already put up pictures of Zionist/Nazi joint demonstrations enough times.

Steelback has never expressed support for Hitler or Nazi Germany.

I have never seen him do that, so I don’t think he is one of them.

Larry and Michael on the other hand are.

I have seen the Israeli flag waving Nazis express their support for Hitler.

And Tech, I have put up enough links of real Jews for you to know they are real and not propoganda.

I can’t be bothered to repast, just find the videos, pictures or their websites I have already pasted.

Well said, Craig.

Apostate / Steelback,

you are selfish to divert threads towards your personal obsession, and you are dishonest to comment under multiple names.

This site used to require registration in order to comment; it is now open. With freedom comes responsibility.

I’m going to bed, bye

Michael Petek:

A Rosicrucian Freemason I believe – tut tut!

Arsalan,

permitting Zionists to post here serves a purpose; their arguments are demolished in public, and they are shown up as liars and supporters of violence.

Apostate etc could contribute greatly by showing some restraint and using a single identity. He obviously is good at finding links and articles; I wish he’d keep to the matters in hand.

Goodnight, Arsalan.

Goodnight, Arsalan. Sleep well, and sweet dreams. Drink up that melatonin, man. Don’t let the vampires through the glass.

Meantime, for owls, vampire-hunters and for those in balmy westbound time-zones, a slightly tangential progression…

This is an interesting piece from the often tediously metropolitan but still occasionally brilliant ‘New Statesman’ magazine on the massive and current infiltration of (especially) anti-corporatist activist groups by the booming private surveillance sector.

The link’s from ex-Security Service (MI5) officer, Annie Machon’s site.

I once met a man who told me that you can tell a spy by their eyes. Gaze deep…

http://www.anniemachon.com/annie_machon/new-statesman-article.html

And after that somewhat dreamy interlude…

1) Well, has anyone an answer to my question about whether or not the SIS sub-contracts wet jobs?

2) Does anyone know where the SS office is in Glasgow? Is it near the new STV building by the Clyde River?

Just out of interest.

Goodnight, friends and foes… and may the spirit of Farrokh Bulsara be with you.

A three-men panel led by former Israeli Supreme Court judge Yaakov Tirkel will vote on Monday to confirm their legitimacy.

The others are Irish Noble Peace Prize winner David Trimble and retired Canadian military prosecutor Ken Watkin.

David Trimble is a member of the Pre-emption Attack Society (aka Henry Jackson Society) BWAAAAAAAAAAAAA (to quote Larry).

Brigadier Ken Watkin is a recent convert to Zionism.

What a load of fucking bollox!

Has the UN lost its bottle?

postscript:

Feuding with Larry will ruin this blog – keep it Kosher!

“Holocaust denial and racism are red lines.”

Very commendable Craig, yet you allow Zionist trolls to deny the slow genocide being perpetrated against the Palestinians, and you allow racism against Arabs & prejudice against Muslims, to be continuously spouted by the aforementioned trolls.

Holocaust denial, like all revisionist re-writes of history, is ugly, but so is censorship; we all know that the Holocaust Deniers have no credible case to make, but censoring them allows them to claim that not only they do have a case, but a case so powerful that it has to be censored. Far better to let them be judged by their agenda driven fantasies, so they can then be challenged and exposed with the ridicule they deserve.

Having a blanket ban on the Holocaust, because of fears that your Site will be tainted by association, is a lazy and hypocritical cope-out, which plays into the hands of Zionists Apologists, who play upon Western guilt, and play upon the self-acclaim exclusiveness of everything Jewish. Instead, you (& others) should treat Holocaust Deniers with all the derision that you can muster in serious or witty put-downs. Clark, or anybody else, has a perfect prerogative to be offended, but not a right to deny others the opportunity to judge somebody by what they chose to reveal about themselves, and not the right in so doing, to prevent somebody from answering.

If you can honestly claim that you would censor somebody claiming the Armenian Genocide is a hoax, or the genocides committed by Stalin or Pol Pot, or by the Belgians in the Congo, etc, etc, are all hoaxes, then your censoring would at least be consistent, if still intellectually lazy to the point of cowardliness, hiding behind moral indignation, however well justified such indignation is.

Also I’ve noticed that it seems that debate on your various Posts, always seem to get derailed & side-tracked by people allowing themselves to be provoked by some of the regular & very nasty Islamophobic racists that your Site attracts; if people chose to grace such racists with the dignity of a respond, it would be helpful they could try to make an attempt to link, or revert back to the topic of the Post, because I suspect that the deliberate derailment of a Post, is the only reason why certain people post here.

@ Clark

I agree with your comment that we must let all sides post here if the Zionist think they have a case or argument than let them articulate it so that it can than be taken apart forensically to expose their lies. The Israel supporters end up taking an intellectual pasting here so they either post and run not wishing to enter any discussion or resort to name calling. I do not think that the Israel sympathizers have persuaded any one with their arguments. They are as deluded as the Israeli Government Jester and story teller Regev.

A senior member of the Third Reich is killed towards the end of the war. He ascends to heaven to me met by St. Peter who checks his records.

“I am afraid you can’t come in as it appears you are responsible for many unpardonable sins, including the murder of six million Jews.”

“That is not true,” replied the indignant Nazi, “it was nearer to two million.”

“Lucifer will be disappointed,” said St Peter before closing the gates.

Suhayl,

excellent article; thanks.

I forgot the link:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/10305902.stm

Hatari & Mac I support the derailment argument which dilutes many succinct and powerful arguments here. I agree reluctantly on Holocaust analysis; a dear Polish friend of my mother lost his father in a Nazi concentration camp from malnutrition.

Holocaust denial in strict terms is absurd but a deliberate Zionist conspiracy to advance the interest of Zionism at the expense of other peoples is well worth continued investigation and debate.

Mac,

I agree with your second point, but point out that it conflicts with your first point. If someone posts denying the Jewish holocaust, we can argue, thus derailing the thread, or we can let it pass, and be accused of antisemitism. I’d really rather Apostate amended his ways.

Denial of other holocausts has not proven to be a thread-derailing issue, and in any case wouldn’t be seized upon by apologists for Israeli atrocities.

As you may have guessed I am incensed by the by the statement from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s office to, “investigate aspects related to the actions taken by the state of Israel to prevent vessels reaching the coast of Gaza.”

Another white-wash in the same frame as the Hutton inquiry!

I have written to Ban Ki-moon but feel we should do more.

@ Clark, Not really a conflict between my two points as the first point is relating to the specific topic of the general Holocaust Denial censoring & its associated issues, whereas the second was specifically relating to blatant de-railing attempts, which normally are not Holocaust related. However if somebody does attempt to sabotage a thread by using Holocaust denial as a tactic, then it’s paradoxically important enough to be treated no differently than somebody claiming the World is being controlled by alien lizards, ie either a temporary derailment is warranted, but just enough to expose the lunacy involved, and then the crank can be dismissed/ridiculed/ignored thereafter.

Also bear in mind that sometimes, some of the Holocaust Deniers are not the real thing, but Zionist Apologists engaged in the similar sort of mischief, as when they post under fake Muslim names, so they should be fairly easy to expose.

I respectfully take issue with your second point, as I have witnessed many, many threads being derailed by those introducing genocide/atrocities denials, particularly in relation to the Armenians, to Iraq, the Balkans, even Cambodia. Further, Holocaust Denial that is repeatedly & effectively refuted is unlikely to be seized upon by Zionist Apologists.

In a somewhat ironical manner these same Zionist Apologists are sometimes forced to aid in countering other genocide denials, as when they claim that what Israel is acting no different then the US/UK in Iraq, or when they now seek to hit back at Turkey over the Armenian Genocide, seemingly oblivious to the facts that Israel was the biggest cheerleader & supporter of the attack on Iraq, and that Israel has always refused to officially acknowledge the Armenian Genocide.

Mac: “regular & very nasty Islamophobic racists”

What the flying fuck are you talking about?

I’ve probably said some nasty things about suicidal martyr-seeking Muslim idiots, but only because they are just that.

Stop whining and get real, Mac.

Eddie, you’re not supposed to question these things. Just accept that it shows what Craig and co. see in it.

Only Zionist trolls would actually dare to question some of the amateurish propaganda on this site.

Hey whiney Mac, lay off larry bin louis. You are clean out of your mind if you think his hundreds of little posts are just nasty hollow rotten TROLLSHIT.

So love it up you fucking idiot!

Neil: Would it not be a heck more convenient, had we been allowed to see _all_ the footage that day? I’m sure that, collectively, it would have shown the Israeli thugs to have been entirely benevolent, demonstrating the most tender-hearted restraint, and murdering people only as a most regrettable, and last moment, unavoidable response.

What a shame that the Israeli authorities were forced to “confiscate” all incriminating evidence which would have shown the relief ships to be manned by filthy jihadists. How unfortunate that the IDF forgot to film their own heroic exploits, which would have settled the entire thing. Why don’t they just release the film and computers etc. of the hostages/ sorry, illegals who were subsequently “deported”?

How terribly unfortunate that, despite all the “liberal media” going nowhere near the story and dropping it entirely down the memory hole now, we have not heard loudly enough about how benevolent and reasonable the IDF actually were. How they were _forced_ to kill unarmed people, and how tormented they are at having been put in that position. Just like a wife-beating husband cusses out a woman for “forcing” him to beat her, and making him feel bad as a consequence.

How terrible that the Real News from the MSM has not told us how the heroic IDF actually prevented a dirty bomb/ nuke/ biological weapon etc. / from harming those poor, innocent, beset “settlers” trying to scratch out a living in their Biblical-times traditional way. (Helicopter gunships, F-16s, white phosphorous, cluster-bombs and US billions of $$’s aside, this is Sunday-School olde Israel, folks! We’ve got to support them!)

Such a shame that Israel acts with such restraint, that it has to restrain the truth – including all video evidence of course – when it comes to its own actions such as this. How the truth would set them free of any unjust criticism!

+100 for Clark’s comments

Craig posts a link which raises questions about Israeli behaviour when boarding a vesel on the open seas

…and, for the umpteenth time, someone tries to divert the comments underneath that thread to the subject of the Jewish holocaust – as sure a way of imploding a discussion thread as there is

Cui bono? as the kind of people who spam other people’s blogs with their conspiratorial obsessions like to ask

or, putting it another way, isn’t there somewhere else that the revionist and zionist trolls can f*** off to to talk about their favourite subject, for hour after futile hour, whilst everyone else can discuss the actual subject of the posts?

TRIMBLE

Who needs an independent observer anyway?

Re Israel’s investigation into itself, with ‘two impartial outside observers’, here’s one of them:

Lord David Trimble,

A true Friend if ever there was one -

http://findarticles.com/p/news-articles/jerusalem-post/mi_8048/is_20100531/aznar-trimble-launch-pro-israel/ai_n53871053/

He has also written papers under the auspices of the Conservative Friends of Israel. He left the UUP and joined the Cons in 2007. Also a member of the Henry Jackson Society. Enough said.

Little on Watkin, the other one. He was a Judge Advocate and there is some suggestion on Wiki that he had knowledge of torture being carried out on Afghan detainees. That has a familiar ring in the last NuLabour outfit doesn’t it?

Neil Barker, why (at 2.24am on 14th June 2010) did you refer to Larry as ‘Eddie’? Perhaps it was just a slip-up or rather, a Freudian slip. Or was there a post in between that got deleted?

I realise that you will probably not stoop to addressing me, or answering any of the earlier questions which I put to you on various threads, since you have not deigned to respond to anything I have put to you, but I found it interesting and thought it worthy of being pointed out for itself and for the benefit of others.

Oh, and “amateurish propaganda” is precisely what you have been purveying since you arrived, at the start of the ‘Mavi Marmara’ reportage.

Some denialism is of value. I once posted about the Sunstein Effect – the sudden realisation that something is true because of the source of the denial.

For example, I had no idea that bin Laden was a CIA asset until ‘Larry’ told us he wasn’t.

StefZ

It’s a classic disinformation technique to simply turn up the volume of noise, so as to drown out reasonable discussion. It matters not which position someone is appearing to take either, as long as it’s factuous and creates distracting noise. Eventually we descend into accusations about who is paid to create the noise, paranoia sets in and any valuable discussion is lost in a flame war. That’s why the internet will never replace bodies in rooms. Although, of course, these techniques date back to before t’net.

All I can suggest is disregarding on the basis of tonal quality, if that makes any sense. Don’t take part in lively debate.

Our problem and the problem for Jews is the power and manipulative practices of their elites.

Unfortunately the charge of ‘racism’ and ‘anti-Semite’ is one of the most powerful weapons in the arsenal of both Jewish and gentile elites , who share the same agenda.

It is deeply ironic that the charge of ‘racism’ liberally applied (unfortunately) in a blanket and presumptive fashion by Craig (who appears to be a just and fair-minded man in every way, to the point of self-sacrifice) prohibits investigation of contentious issues (like ‘The Holocaust’) that act as the moral engine for easily the most racist state on earth.

The guilt-complex installed in gentiles by this narrative gives more-or-less a free pass to Israeli savagery, as recent history demonstrates.

“Holocaust denial” a Red Line?

We’re not talking about dividing up some bloody Saudi oilfield you know!

We’re talking about elevating a contentious Zionist version of history to the level of a state religion.

The man who stood on a soap-box a fortnight ago and declared Zionism was bullshit is happy to enforce Holocaust fundamentalism as the state religion.

There’s no better illustration of the abject impotence of the PC establishment left than their willingness to be cowed by Zionist propaganda into endorsing its most powerful psychological weapon.

If the case for the “Holocaust” taking the lives of 6m Jews during WW2 is sustainable it has to be subjected to the same scrutiny as any other event or genocide in history.

Why is the “Jewish Holocaust” guaranteed sacrosanct status when the genocides in Turkey and Ukraine,and the Soviet gulag in which cadres of high ranking Jewish officials played the leading role are officially off the radar?

Perhaps Mr Murray needs reminding that up to 60m non-Jews died as a result of WW2.That war like WW1 was regarded as a price worth paying by the Zionist bankers who helped orchestrate it in order that Israel be created.

Oh,I forgot you want us to stick to another red line that enforces denial of the fact that the likes of Warburg and Schiff played decisive roles in wars and revolutions.

That’s right we’ve got to stick to the cock-up theory of history!

The Zionists need to fight their corner not cower behind the PC left who do their bidding.

Let’s hear them make the Holocaust case shall we?

They can’t. The whole edifice is a flimsy deck of cards that comes tumbling down as soon as it’s exposed to the same public scrutiny as other historical events.

By the way before we lock up Bishop Williamson shouldn’t we prosecute Churchill,Ike and De Gaulle posthumously for forgetting to mention the Holocaust in their memoirs?

Even my local paper which ran a Holocaust fundamentalist article allowed readers who disagreed with it the right of reply.

What’s the matter with you,Mr Murray?

“What the flying fuck are you talking about?

I’ve probably said some nasty things about suicidal martyr-seeking Muslim idiots, but only because they are just that.

Stop whining and get real, Mac.”

@Larry, Appropriately for an attention seeking egoist, you assume that I was specifically referring to you, but since you crave the spotlight, then yes you do indeed say such things as “suicide-loving culturally insane Muslim compatriots”, and then try to claim that you are not referring to all Muslims, but just the “terrorists”. As convincing and as damning as the stereotype Racist who says, “I’m not a racist, but… .”

Anyhow your derailing is not just confined to racism, but to your incessant attempts to sabotage any debate with your favourite twin baiting smears of accusing people of either being anti-Semitic, and/or a Conspiracy Nut. That this is normally the sum total of your “contributions” to most debates, and that you rarely address any of the points being made directly to you, also speaks volumes.

For example on the “Mavi Marmara: Footage Hidden From the Israelis” thread, as a defender of the Israeli version of the Flotilla attack, and a denouncer of those who cited glaring contradicts, I specifically sought your opinion on two issues that I provided inks to; the first was to the (Times) reported testimony of the “Hero” Commando who murdered six civilians, whose account directly contradicted the official Israeli version, as in;

“He told The Times that he pulled out his 9mm Glock pistol.

Yesterday, however, we were informed by a navy officer that navy commandos don’t carry 9mm guns, and that the empty 9mm casings were proof that the humanitarian activists had brought guns with them. Oops, someone forgot to tell Sergeant S. Then, of course, Michael Oren parroted a recital of this “evidence” on the op-ed pages of the New York Times, unchallenged by any differing opinions or contradictory testimony, as usual.”

http://www.hybridstates.com/2010/06/testimony-of-rogue-commando-who-killed-six-civilian-activists-further-undermines-official-idf-story/

I also linked to an article hosted by the NYT, reporting the testimony of the Turkish doctor who treated and took care of the three captured Israeli Commandos, complete with photos, in total contrast to the mad murdering jihadists picture that you & Israel tried to paint the activists as, and that also belies the “lynching” justification that Israel tried to use.

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/09/turkish-doctor-describes-treating-israeli-commandos-during-raid/

Of course you chose not to respond to these points, but chose to pursue a derailing conversation about where you may be based, and whetever you are behind various Right Wing Sites or not; not exactly the rational behaviour of somebody who genuinely is interested in discussing the issues of Craig’s Post, but more in line with the behaviour of somebody whose sole motivation is thread derailment.

Mac, yes, I make fun of suicidal martyrdom-seeking Muslims. That hardly makes me racist.

Who else here has been racist?

vronsky: “For example, I had no idea that bin Laden was a CIA asset until ‘Larry’ told us he wasn’t.”

There we see the standard of evidence for a truther.

You apparently are another person who thinks I’m a government agent. Hilarious.

“I make fun of suicidal martyrdom-seeking Muslims. That hardly makes me racist.”

You have attacked anyone here whom you have decided is a Muslim. In fact you have reserved your most bitter insults for them, despite none of them showing the slightest sign of wanting either suicide or martyrdom. Stop lying, Larry. The archives exist and can be seen by anyone.

The point of exposing your own site, is to show the world the horrible Islamophobic comments you have tolerated and encouraged there — along with right-wing war mongering and general sneering at Arabs and/or Muslims.

You’re no Government agent. You’re a bigheaded liar who thinks you know everything. Thatisall.

This may be difficult for some people to understanding, but shooting people in the back of the head on boats is a questionable practice, regardless of what did or didn’t happen seventy odd years ago

It doesn’t matter if it were sixty or six million killed in the Jewish holocaust. If it were done with gas or with bullets. Whatever the specifics, none of it justifies murder and genocidal state policies in the here and now

Holocaust Revisionists essentially support the Zionist cause by implying that a 70 year old genocide *DOES* justify contemporary genocide, provided that the 70 year old genocide has been reliably documented.

Steelback

“Perhaps Mr Murray needs reminding that up to 60m non-Jews died as a result of WW2.That war like WW1 was regarded as a price worth paying by the Zionist bankers who helped orchestrate it in order that Israel be created.”

Absolute nonsense. That really is lunatic conspiracy theory, and very reminiscent indeed of Nazi anti-semitic propaganda of the 30s.

Of course bankers make money out of wars. They still do, as do arms manufacturers, the militray and the burgeoning “security” industry. Of course some of those people sometimes press for war.

But to believe that World Wars 1 and 2 were fomented by a cabal of zionists, you really have to be warped by racial hatred. Which I am convinced you are.

I have heard some murmours from our special envoy Blair this morning, desperately trying to sound in charge.

Apparently he is in touch with the Israeli’s and they might just ease the land blockade so he promises, well, maybe.

He says that the sea blocakde will not be given up and there will be no autonomous habour established,according to his sanitised version.

A throughout stumbling delivery the war criminals solution to more trouble and strife.

Can Mr. Blair not see that there is no credence left for a nation that has thouroughly flouted international law, murdered people and challenged NATO’s doctrine?

And thats just in the last two weeks, dare I speak of the last six decades of waisted UN time and resolutions, or Israels inability to live in peace with its neighbours.

My apologies for not indulging or taking part in this slanging match some folks seem to have with themselves on here, just to wind us all up, multiple personality disorders is such a rott.

Where is Hilary Clinton? If someone farts in Iran she is all over the tv condemming it and threatening sanctions, here we have 9 people murdered in international waters and she is no were to be seen.

Do you mean SHILLary Clinton John?

Mac @ 9am ‘Yesterday, however, we were informed by a navy officer that navy commandos don’t carry 9mm guns..’

If they were not commando weapons, whose were they? Have you any further info? 29 of the 30 bullets pumped into the nine victims were 9mm calibre.

Apart from killing and oppressing the present day Palestinians, the Israelis do not even respect their ancestors’ graves.

Jonathan Cook who lives in Nazareth and who abandoned his career here in the MSM reports.

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100613/FOREIGN/706129901&SearchID=73393655950934

There are two types of people who I disagree with here.

There are people like steelback and co, who I will debate with to try and convince.

I will try and tell him he is wrong to get him to believe what I believe is right. but it will all be good natured.

There are somethings everyone here says that I disagree with, and we can debate, to change each other’s views or agree to disagree.

And the are the Larrys and Micheal, the Zionists and haters. I wont try and convince them, because I believe they don’t need convincing. They believe in death and destruction. they are evil people who call for evil. They know what Israel does is evil, so we don’t need to convince them of that. They already know it. They support Israel because Israel is evil.

With them, I just condemn them. Or mock them.

Or state to everyone else that they are Nazis.

And Larry don’t pretend, that you only Bombers. Michael has made it clear that he wants ever Muslim man dead, and when he says fighters, he means each and every Muslim man.

He has said it many times.

And Larry the Turks who were shot to death weren’t sucide bombers. Yet you fight them and support there deaths. So don’t pretend you are something you are not. You are a hater, a Nazi, a Racist and a Murderer.

That is your be all and end all.

There is nothing good about you, and everything bad about you.

The guy who killed five or six of the activists and is touted for a meadl, gave an interview to the Times in which he specifically says he used a Glock 9mm. Maybe someone could dig it up.

Who do you think shot them then? Santa Claus?

Tony Blair is yesterday’s man. If he told me it was raining outside I would not look for an umbrella.

Go away and count your money, Mr. Blair. Your pension fund probably contains about 20p for each of the civilian deaths on your hands. You set a low bidding price on your soul and sold it on EBay to the joint highest bidders – Zionist Israel and to the Bush/Cheney Company. Things did not work out well for Dr. Faustus, nor will they for you most probably.

The Times link is contained in my original linked article, but here it is anyway;

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article7144099.ece

Micheal and Larry what are you?

What do you do, other then try to spread hate while defending murder?

Don’t you have any concern about your after lives, or have you moved so far in to evil that you have given up on that?

What Good have you ever done?

You might disagree with Craig and me, but you know we are people trying to work for Good.

Craig lost his Job because he defended people being boiled alive. whether you think people being boiled alive is a good thing or a bad thing. You must admit what he tried to do was a good thing?

Een though Michael, you believe every Muslim man should be killed. Don’t you believe me sending medical supplies on the flatila was a good thing?

What good have you two ever done?

I know you two are Zionist trols, and you are probably getting paid per post, but don’t you have a conscience?

Don’t you feel bad about what you say?

Don’t you have a naging voice at the back of your head tell you to leave evil and walk towards good?

Don’t you feel bad about what you do, say and write?

Don’t you look at your life and think to yourself, what have I ever done, other than try to upset people? Call for death?

When I go to bed at night, I know I have made the world a better place during the day.

Or at least tried to do so.

So when you go to bed, what do you think about yourself. Is the world better because you are alive, or would it be better if you were dead?

Other than posting horrible things on the internet, what do you do?

People here already know what I do. I work with chairities to help people. I help disabled and dying children and their parents.

That is who I am.

I look after my children so my wife can go to hospitals to save the lives of Mothers and babies.

I’m an engineer, a teacher and a scientist, I use each role to try and improve the world for others.

What are you? what do you do?

Today I don’t regard myself as a very good Engineer and Scientist, my supervisor just riped me a new one because my research was so rubbish.

But at least I tried.

So what do you try and do, other then get people to hate each other?

So what do you do?

What is good about you?

“Do you mean SHILLary Clinton John?”

Oh come on, now!

You mean Billary Clinton, don’t you?

She certainly never went to my shill school.

Here’s another rmention of Glock 9mms from the Jerusalem Post

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177445

this article also mentions that the Israeli commandos fired warning (sic.) shots before rappelling down onto the deck of the boat

I mention this because Larry mentioned that the loons who comment on this bog were still clinging onto the ‘delusion’ that the Israelis fired their weapons before boarding the boats

the jp article also explains that people not moving when explosions go off is a sure sign that they are well trained terrorists and therefore deserving of being shot (in the back of the head)

presumably, if those activists had moved that would have made them poorly trained terrorists and equally deserving of summary execution

So who is paid, who does it for free?

Thought-police is here

Rona Kuperboim slams Foreign Ministry’s plan to hire pro-Israel talkbackers

Rona Kuperboim

Published: 07.10.09, 13:11 / Israel Opinion

The Foreign Ministry unveiled a new plan this week: Paying talkbackers to post pro-Israel responses on websites worldwide. A total of NIS 600,000 (roughly $150,000) will be earmarked to the establishment of an “Internet warfare” squad.

The Foreign Ministry intends to hire young people who speak at least one language and who study communication, political science, or law ?” or alternately, Israelis with military experience gained at units dealing with information analysis.

Beyond the fact that these job requirements reveal a basic lack of understanding in respect to the dynamics of the online discourse ?” the project’s manager argued that “adults don’t know how to blog” ?” they are not too relevant either. An effective talkbacker does not need a law degree or military experience. He merely needs to care about the subject he writes about.

The sad truth is that had Israeli citizens believed that their State is doing the right thing, they would have made sure to explain it out of their own accord. Without being paid.

Foreign Ministry officials are fighting what they see as a terrible and scary monster: the Palestinian public relations monster. Yet nothing can be done to defeat it, regardless of how many foolish inventions will be introduced and how many bright communication students will be hired.

The reason is that good PR cannot make the reality in the occupied territories prettier. Children are being killed, homes are being bombed, and families are starved. Yet nonetheless, the Foreign Ministry wants to try to change the situation. And they have willing partners. “Where do I submit a CV?” wrote one respondent. “I’m fluent in several languages and I’m able to spew forth bullshit for hours on end.”

Anti-democratic initiative

Any attempt to plant talkbacks online must fail. Especially if the State is behind it. Not only because it’s easy to identify responses made on behalf of someone, but also because it’s anti-democratic. When the Israel Electric Company or other companies do it, it’s annoying. Yet when the State does it, it’s dangerous.

Imposters on behalf of the government are threatening free discourse even if they only wander through the virtual space. The Internet was meant to serve as an open platform for dialogue between people, rather than as a propaganda means.

Something worrisome is happening here lately. We see the accumulation of silencing attempts. The Nakba Law, the bill calling for a ban on protests outside the homes of politicians, Lieberman’s Loyalty Law, and the biometric information database. The free speech hunting season is on.

Thankfully we have the Internet, and it enables us to identify processes, discuss them, warn about them, and join forces against them. We can assume that soon we’ll see the establishment of a website opposed to this new initiative, unless such site already exists. Perhaps even a group on Facebook. I wonder whether all its members will be Foreign Ministry agents, or whether it will also include some real people.

This is not a police state: This is a thought-police state.

Notice that the shock from a shot to the torso blasts the brain tissue. Nice one Netanyahoo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9x19mm_Parabellum

From the Wikipedia page on the Glock pistol. Paragraph Development -

2. 2.The pistol must fire the NATO-standard 9x19mm Parabellum cartridge

What was the different bullet found in the autopsies and who fired it? Talk of dual nationalities with the IDF esp Australians. See Paul McGeough Fairfax media who was on the flotilla.

Anybody know how to see the autopsy reports?

Posted by: anonymous at June 14, 2010 1:40 PM

Racist is what Israel says it is, and it isn’t, what Israel says it isn’t.

Israel decides what we can talk about and what we can not.

They choose all of these things because they claim to be choosen.

Mr Murray

You are utterly out of your depth now.

How the hell can you deny-or for the benefit of your Zionist audience pretend not to know-that a cabal of Zionist bankers led by the Warburgs hijacked the Federal Reserve in 1913?

Knowing none of this history whatever perhaps you missed the fact that the Great War started the following year in 1914 and J.P.Morgan, agents for the Rothschilds, bank-rolled the British war effort.

Despite having promised the American people that the US would remain neutral President Wilson, who was controlled by the same cabal of Zionist bankers and their agents, intervened on the British side in 1917.

The year before with the British war effort disintegrating and Germany winning the war Balfour was persuaded to make the British commitment to the establishment of a Jewish homeland in Palestine.

In return Zionist financiers promised to use their considerable influence with the US government to bring the US into the war on the British side.

With a big German push anticipated early the following year the French High Command were mortified to discover in 1916 that British were diverting 250,000 troops to the Middle East! Their mission was to wrest Palestine from the Turks and fulfill the promise made to the Zionists.

At Versailles the Zionist banking cabal who controlled Wilson,Lloyd George and most of the other leading players orchestrated the terms of a settlement that guaranteed that WW2 would follow.

As to the Second World War I can only guess which Boys Own version of this event is the one you would like to draw a red line around! However if you bothered to do the research you would find that the same cabal of Zionist bankers were intent on instigating a second conflagration. And they had made sure that certain political figures were in place to bring this about.

I really can’t believe you’re being so adolescent and wet about documented historical facts.

The idea I’m a racist because I believe Zionist bankers planned two world wars is risible.

Since when have Zionist bankers constituted racial group?

I think you’re playing to the gallery,Mr Murray and that you’ve exposed yourself as a charlatan in the process.

You might win some applause from the Zionist shills who are pulling your strings and who you have allowed to hijack this comment board.

You might even convince your Israeli lobby friends among the political class that you’re safe to employ in a new role (LOL-get real) but a lot of people will have seen you for what you are.

Someone who pretends he’s a liberal but employs blanket censorship against anyone who challenges Zionist propaganda.

Someone who pretends he’s offering alternative news commentary when in fact he’s gate-keeping for the Zionist version of history and is merely an extension of the corporate media.

Next time you get on a soap-box and scream about Zionism being bullshit-we will know you don’t mean it but your lobby friends may not.

Craig

Have you got History “O” level?

Are you not aware that the Rothschilds have a history of financing BOTH sides of wars? They did it during the American Revolution,the Napoleonic wars,and have been doing it ever since.

Are we supposed to believe the Rothschilds are not Zionist bankers?

Get real!

Have you not worked out that Zionist bankers control the Fed, Bank of England, IMF, World Bank, UN, WHO , and BIS?

Last I heard only N.Korea,Iran,Sudan,Cuba and Libya were the only countries left in the world without Rothschild-controlled central banks.

Is that cock-up theory too?

Do you seriously believe that if Palestinians ran the Fed rather than the Zionists they’d be rotting in Gaza,the West Bank and refugee camps across the Middle East today?

If you do-you’re no use to the anti-Zionist Palestinian cause whatever.

We can do without such an abject failure to analyse and research facts that are NOT conspiracy theory as you would have your readers believe but verifiable facts in the public domain.

I’m not remotely racist either,by the way!

http://www.unhchr.ch/tbs/doc.nsf/385c2add1632f4a8c12565a9004dc311/4c47b59ea48f7343802566f200352fea?OpenDocument

Discuss or delete?

I can’t believe the crass willed blindness to historical facts shown by Craig Murray.

Senator Norman Dodd during the Reese-Dodd committee hearings into tax-exempt foundations found that Carnegie Endowment for International Peace Trustees had debated at length by what means US society could be transformed in the direction desired by the financial elites.

The minutes showed that they had finally resolved that only by involving America in a series of major wars could the changes they desired be wrought.

The Carnegie Endowment began taking steps to control the State Department.They set up the Council of Learned Societies which begat the CFR and has controlled appointments to the State Department ever since.

The history Craig Murray pretends is “conspiracy theory” is actually inconveniently for him,his Zionist trolling pals,and people he’s desperate to impress among the Zionist lobby political class ON THE RECORD and IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN.

The internet the Zionists want to shut down means-notwithstanding the gate-keeping and censorship of Craig Murray- they can’t hide their complicity in all the most disastrous human tragedies of the last two centuries.

P.S. Don’t call me racist either or I’ll call you a charlatan!

Mr David. Holocaust denial is best ignored. Why bother bringing it up ? . I don’t think anyone here denies the holocaust.

But what is up for discussion, is why does Israel currently ignore International law ?

“To believe two world wars were fomented by a cabal of Zionist bankers you really have to warped by racial hatred”

I really couldn’t believe I read this from someone who purports to know something re-world history and foreign affairs.

What an utterly fatuous accusation to make?

Zionist bankers are not a race. How the Hell can someone who fingers the elite financial interests behind wars and revolutions be deemed a racist?

Surely a grown man must know this. The

Frankfurt/Freudian school bullshit propaganda you’ve swallowed whole is now spewing forth uncontrollably.

Trotsky and Lenin were tools of the Zionist bankers. Trotsky married into “the family”. The Zionist bankers financed the Bolsheviks,Hitler and the war-mongers who were hot for both World Wars.

Who the Bejeez do you imagine Karl Marx was? Father bloody Christmas?

What the Hell do you think the internet is for?

Some sort of social networking/dating site?

How can anybody be so pathetically naive and ill-informed?

The information is out there now. It’s too late for you to try and pretend you can turn back the tide by censoring out the facts.

To be quite honest,Craig Murray,I find your assumption that anyone who refuses to subscribe to Holocaust fundamentalism or points to the prime role played by Zionist bankers in wars and revolutions is a racist patently absurd.

Much of the literature pertaining to both the said historical phenomena has been written by Jewish researchers who like all truly independent writers seek to disentangle truth from propaganda.

To assume that ideas which you are so brain-washed you can’t get your head around come from the basest of motives puts you in the same intellectual league as Larry and the shills on this site who prey on your vulnerability to recycle their propaganda.

If you think you’re maintaining your credibility with our thoroughly discredited political class and that they might make future use of you-I think your vanity and self-deception may be your undoing.

With friends like Larry and the Zio-propagandists no-one will take you seriously again!

Freeborn and all, here’s a good tongue-in-cheek piece by Michael J. Gardiner which you might appreciate:

http://www.swans.com/library/art16/barker52.html

Here’s another one. Anyway, you can look up the rest yourself, if you wish.

http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2010/06/08/guest-post-the-philanthropic-zionist-complex/

“The Foreign Ministry intends to hire young people who speak at least one language”

I love it.

Richard Robinson

You’d be surprised, it really is quite difficult to find someone in Israel who can speak a single language.

You’re right, I would.

suhayl’s link to Swans is impressive.

I like the prose quality of most of the contributors there.

I couldn’t help noticing a reference in the first link to Edmond de Rothschild being a former board member of the Israel corporation.

If you’re claiming Rothschild is a Zionist banker who likes wars-SHOCK-HORROR-you must be some kind of warped racist!

Next you’ll be linking to “Holocaust denial” sites!

You just crossed two red lines,suhayl and will be deleted forthwith!

On Swans check out Michael Dolliner.He wrote some fascinating stuff re-Leo Strauss some time back.

Make sure it’s not racist/anti-semitic/homophobic though won’t you!

LOL!

Reckon Swans would employ Craig? Hang he was expecting a Zio-lobby outfit to want him……….

It’s Swans or Larry’s cathouse I reckon.

Thanks, Freeborn. Glad you dug it. Yes, I noticed the Rothschild mention, too. Now Michael J. Barker is a very serious ‘radical activist scholar’ (as I think he describes himself). He’s certainly not in any way ‘anti-Semitic’. And so, while I don’t necessarily agree with everything Freeborn et al write – as everyone knows – I do think he has some important – if deeply uncomfortable – things to say and I think that ought to be stated.

In case I’ve not provided it before, here’s a link to Michael J. Barker’s site. His own biog. is fascinating:

http://michaeljamesbarker.wordpress.com/

This piece is a detailed critique of the role of certain powerful players in Hollywood in the projection of imperial fantasy – and the actions they take in the real world to back that up. The references include Ilan Pappe, Shaul Cohen and Ella Shohat.

Michael J. Barker has an incisive intellect and in my view is a crucial political voice, but having deliberately rejected a comfortable life in academia is living in London on zilch. While lying courtiers like Niall Ferguson get millions for their systemic mendacity.

http://www.swans.com/library/art15/barker14.html

And here’s a critique some aspects of of Noam Chomsky, by M. Shahid Alam:

http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/01/chomsky-on-oil-and-the-israel-lobby/

Arsalan, this is for you, but also for everyone!

http://www.swans.com/library/dossiers/ipquotes.html

“General Odd Bull” ? What a splendid title.

Suhayl

I’m so glad you don’t agree with everything I say. It’d be pretty boring if you did.

What a relief that you don’t think I’m an anti-semite,too!

I couldn’t live with myself if you thought I was………anti-Palestinians.

I’ll admit though between you and me-I’m not at all keen on those Israelis!

Are we allowed to say that here?

“We are not going to War over a Bunch of Dead Sailors”

http://kennysideshow.blogspot.com/2010/06/uss-liberty-flubbed-up-false-flag.html

Great hatchet job on the execrable Niall Ferguson.

Those TV historians grate with me. They are peddling establishment propaganda re-wars and revolutions that those who have already lost the capacity for critical thought just absorb and regurgitate.

A lot of the abject nonsense that’s spouted on this comment board on these topics is the result of people adhering to mainstream accounts they absorbed from prescribed reading lists they were given at university.

Don’t expect Niall Ferguson or Simon Schama to tell you anything the establishment don’t want you know about either.

Ferguson ended hisbook on the Rothschild dynasty in 1914 leaving us with implied idea that the fasmily coulkdn’t now compete with bigger corporate players.

Actually they’re very much still in the game and with court historians like Ferguson can keep their power well concealed.

Absolutely agree, Apostate. And thanks, Freeborn, much appreciated!

I quite like that Niall Ferguson, me. Him and his lovely new girlfriend.

Yeah, they’d make models for ‘OK’ magazine, wouldn’t they? Or rather, Conde Nast. Like Liam Fox, Niall Ferguson, of course, is from Glasgow. Irony of ironies of ironies.

It just occurred to me that if we needed further evidence that Craig Murray is a gate-keeper we just got it on this thread.

The link he makes between Holocaust revisionism and racism is a standard elite-driven attempt to marginalize people who challenge official narratives like “climate change” as well.

In the US global-warming sceptics are characterized in this way.

Being as I’m not just a climate change sceptic I’m a 100% DENIER that makes me elegible to join the Klu Klux Clan doesn’t it?

HORSE-SHITE!

We got your number Mr Murray-GATE-KEEPER!

Yea and we worked out you’re just an extension of the corporate media too,angri.

If you had a brain you’d be dangerous!

Happily this isn’t the case.

P.S.I can’t be the only one here who thinks your sense of humour is worse than adolescent,can I?

“I can’t be the only one here who thinks your sense of humour is worse than adolescent,can I?”

Who cares what you “think”?

It is becoming increasingly clear to onlookers that the Decommissioners are not rebels without a cause- in fact their cause was very lucid and honorable.

As they became witnesses to Operation Cast Lead they took an action that all of us should have felt compelled to do if we could as our duty being part of the human race.

Political reaction to Israel’s military assault on the Gaza strip underlined total failure of democratic processes to protect those in need, to protect the weak, to save children, to save women, to save men- none of which had ever committed an act that justified their brutal annihilation.

Israel seek to extinct, whilst the West seeks to fill it bottomless financial pit with more arms trade profit created by the destruction of innocent lives and the continued suffering of those that live through operations such as Cast Lead.

How can not every single person that comes across realities of war crimes not want to stand up and Decommission whatever link in the chain of terror they can?

That is not criminal damage, it is a necessity.