I recently passed a group of young men chanting “EDL! EDL!”. The then sang songs praising Hitler, mocking Jews and boasting about their foreskins.

By the way, you suck at timekeeping

Yes, it’s a weird alliance indeed. Remember the BNP has formally changed to a pro-Israel stance too.

What did they chant, one wonders?

Possibly, this:

“Heil Hi… oh, uhm… I mean, Heil Netanyahu! Ein Volk, Ein Reich…”

Interesting updates on the flotilla murders at:

http://www.hybridstates.com/2010/06/testimony-of-rogue-commando-who-killed-six-civilian-activists-further-undermines-official-idf-story/

Racist it isn’t because anyone of any race can become a Jew and therefore an Israeli national.

The common factor is antipathy to Islam or Islamist extremism.

“Whatever its initial aspirations, the State of Israel has become a vicious racist entity. As you can see by its friends.”

Wow. That’s enough of a number for you to “prove” some linkage between English fascists and the State of Israel?

I suppose you haven’t met many Israelis in your life Craig Murray. Perhaps your racist hatred has prevented you from forming any real bonds.

To remind you – and to state the obvious – 90% of your commenters at this blog are 911 truth nuts. And you whine and whine and whine about being grouped in with them.

Right after or right before your recent public speech linked on this page, a rapper named Lowkey was also invited to speak. He’s also, as one would imagine, a 911 nut.

Since zionism is basically just jewish nationalism, it’s hardly surprising it has an appeal to other nationalists.

Nationalism, of course, takes on a particularly nasty tinge when it is linked with settler colonialism, as it is in the case of Israel.

Beyond the fact that fellow nationalists share some inherent commonality of world-view, there is the shared hatred of islam and muslims to explain the particular alliance of English and jewish nationalists.

Uber-Zionists on overtime. Not a pretty sight. They will defend Israel’s image in the media to the hilt, but the hilt is bust, guys. No-one believes their lies any more. May as well go away and retire to the Negev.

Michael Petek,

Can you explain then why Ethiopian Jews were submitted to genetic testing to ascertain whether they should be given the right to live in Israel, if Judaism is not racial?

“Can you explain then why Ethiopian Jews were submitted to genetic testing to ascertain whether they should be given the right to live in Israel…”

Evidence?

I have to say, you seem to be embarking on a self-defeating argument. How can a religion lay claim to a national homeland?

http://a.yfrog.com/img18/3381/israelss.jpg

Evidence?

‘The haplotypes of all but Ethiopian Jews shared a similar pattern,’ says Ostrer, a member of the study team led by Hammer and Batsheva Bonne-Tamir of Tel-Aviv University.”

http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts-jews.html

Note this is all Israeli research. Israel world does not share your idea jews are not a race.

I am on balance a supporter of israel, by the way and support the blockade. I just don’t like nonsense.

It’s really hard being a right wing racist nationalist, these days. It’s hard deciding whom one hates the most.

Genetic testing is a fascinating avenue for anthropologists.

Where’s the evidence that genetic testing was a condition precedent for the right of return? What would be the standard that they’re employing?

” the State of Israel has become a vicious racist entity. As you can see by its friends.”

And those friends include the United States of America where, as noted with reference to your earlier post today, Vice President Biden has given unconditional support for Israel’s convoy murders and has declared Israel to be at war with Gaza.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/richard-adams-blog/2010/jun/02/joe-biden-israel-gaza-flotilla-raid

It therefore seems illogical to single out Israel for particular condemnation.

The Economist has a partial list of items included in the blockade. Apparently Israel is worried about coriander-powered rockets bearing chicken warheads.

Oh look, newspapers are included.

http://www.economist.com/node/16264970

Wonder what will happen if it turns out that Palestinians and Jews have common genetic links and are related, what an attractive thought, brothers killing each other, best not tell anybody if it is the case.

Living together peacefully for over a thousand years makes genetic links very likely and almost inevitable, so all this BS about race and differences are just that, BS.

All this Hasbara interest is akin to Goebbels effort, dare I say modern media manipulations and spin today have their roots in the third Reichs media machine.

I say to all the apologists for this criminal cowardly and naive action, exchange the nationalities and see whether international law still makes no difference, exchange Turkish people for French/American activists and then re-evaluate and think what would have happened.

I think there should be a flotilla/day just to make sure the IDF gets remi9nded that the rest of the world does not give a fig about one sided blockades, we should be taking the berlin airlift as an example and start flying the stuff in with everything we’ve got.

What a stupid idea to use the football world cup as a time to attack more innocent people.

Another point, what does the Israeli Government think? Heaping all this backlash and hatred on to their diaspora, or was this planned just as the periodic reassurance of guilt for the past Hollocaust.

Keeping one’s people in fear of the world is how Israel manipulates its civilians, a regular war, a few missiles, missing or not, as long as one has the world media eating out of one’s hand its easy to spread fear.

Sadly the game is over, proximity talks will have to follow and Gaza’s blockade will have to stop.

The attrocities committed and its perpetrators, should, as international law demands, be tried in Turkey.

I am sure that Israeli tourist like holidaying in Turkey and I am sure that businesses world wide will want to carry on making money from us Goija, so stop shilling us here, tell your Government to start acting like any other country if it wants to earn respect, not like a rogue fascist regime.

ingo: Shlomo Sand wrote a book arguing that the Palestinians are the descendants of Roman era Jews, and modern Jews the descendants of Europeans who converted to Judaism.

http://www.jkcook.net/Articles2/0339.htm

@amk, the book by Prof. Shlomo Sand, is called Matai ve’ech humtza ha’am hayehudi? (When and How Were the Jewish People Invented?; He researches lead him to conclude that the story of the Jews as a wandering and self-isolating nation of exiles from antiquity is nothing but “national mythology”, and that the present-day Palestinians are far more likely the descendants of the ancient Semitic people in Judea/ Canaan than the current predominantly Khazarian-origin Ashkenazi populace to which he & a large proportion of modern Israelis belong to. He argues that the Judaized Khazars constituted the main origins of the Jewish communities in Eastern Europe, speaking Yiddish, a language which is etymologically unrelated either to ancient Hebrew, or even to the language spoken by the very old Jewish community that existed in Germany during even before the Middle Ages. Further various DNA studies, such the extensive one by Ellen Levy-Coffman’s in 2005, (“A mosaic of people: the Jewish story and a reassessment of the DNA evidence”), support Sand’s book’s claims, as it concluded; “Jewish ancestry reflects a mosaic of genetic sources. While earlier studies focused on the Middle Eastern component of Jewish DNA, new research has revealed that both Europeans and Central Asians also made significant contributions to Jewish ancestry. Moreover, while the DNA studies have confirmed the close genetic interrelatedness of many Jewish communities, they have also confirmed what many suspected all along: Jews do not constitute a single group distinct from all others. Rather, modern Jews exhibit a diversity of genetic profiles, some reflective of their Semitic/Mediterranean ancestry, but others suggesting an origin in European and Central Asian groups. The blending of European, Semitic, Central Asian and Mediterranean heritage over the centuries has led to today’s Jewish populations.”

“Jews do not constitute a single group distinct from all others. Rather, modern Jews exhibit a diversity of genetic profiles, some reflective of their Semitic/Mediterranean ancestry, but others suggesting an origin in European and Central Asian groups.”

So Jews, one of the more racially obsessed human groups, are actually not a race at all, but a mongrel anthropological phenomenon: like the Indian Thugs, who as a result of their practice of stealing pretty children, must have been genetically heterogeneous, although they had a tight cultural homogeneity.

Yet those Jews of Western European and elsewhere with the distinctive nose, are surely of at least part Semitic extraction.

Perhaps if those without a proper Jewish nose abandoned the “tribe,” we would hear little more about Zionism, which has been a huge disaster for Europe’s Jews.

Incidentally, Yahweh was a Canaanite god of mercy. He was adopted by those of expelled from their tribe for murder or other crimes. So even at the outset, the Jews were a relatively heterogeneous lot, even if all were Semites.

Mac, that’s fascinating and may be the reason why my wife frequently gets mistaken for being Jewish when she’s in NYC!

Larry’s Mom, you must be some gal! Arsalan, is this you cross-dressing?

Suhaly what are you on about?

Your poetic analogies go right through my engineers brain. I really can’t understand what you are on about?

Well, I’m wondering whether you are ‘Larry’s Mom’. Oh, I see that the comment by ‘Larry’s Mom’ has vanished. That’s why mine doesn’t make sense any more! Or was it on another thread? Oh well.

So, you’re an engineer, eh, Arsalan? Interesting. I admire anyone who can think that way, with structural logic and in many physical dimensions at once.

Going back to Mac’s and Alfred’s earlier posts, Here’s to Gogol’s excellent and surreal story, ‘The Nose’!

On which note, my better half:

http://www.redhotcurry.com/profiles/alina_mirza.htm

For Neda

The 16.31 link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F48SinuEHIk&feature=channel

FOR NEDA reveals the true story of Neda Agha-Soltan, who became another tragic casualty of Iran’s violent crackdown on post-election protests on June 20, 2009. Unlike many unknown victims, however, she instantly became an international symbol of the struggle: Within hours of Agha-Soltan’s death, cell phone photographs of her blood-stained face were held aloft by crowds protesting in Tehran and across the world. With exclusive access to her family inside Iran, the documentary goes to the heart of who Neda was and what she stood for, illuminating the larger Iranian struggle for democratic freedoms through her powerful story. Directed by Antony Thomas.

JamesVI at June 4, 2010 7:48 PM asks:

“Can you explain then why Ethiopian Jews were submitted to genetic testing to ascertain whether they should be given the right to live in Israel…”

What was being looked for here is Jewish heritage through the matrilineal line. You are Jewish if your mother is. Alternatively, you can become Jewish by conversion according to Jewish law, no matter what your race.

Different strands of Judaism have different criteria for conversion. Orthodox Jews generally don’t recognise the validity of conversions administered by non-Orthodox.

@Mac at June 4, 2010 9:13 PM

I recently read Sand’s book and if I remember well, the author stops short of affirming the Khazarian origin of East-European Ashkenazim. It’s more like “probably it is so” and “no other ascendancy seems plausible”. His main argument is that the Rhenanian Jewry of the Middle Ages should never have compounded more than some 20,000 persons, so how could this rather small group be the sole origin of the vastly bigger number of East European Jews of the 19th century? That’s proof by plausibility, so it’s weak, isn’t it?

He does pretend the linguistical structure of Yiddish to be essentially non-Germanic and that also made me doubt. Over 40% of the Yiddish’s roots are Germanic; nearly all grammar words (pronouns, auxiliaries, …), the sentence structure is Germanic, the meanings of the modal verbs ( derfn/misn/kennen ) and of their negations reproduce exactly those of the Middle High German ( durfen/mussen/konnen ). After substituting for the Slav and the Hebraic roots – the latter covering essentially the religious sphere – some Germanic words, to a Southern German of today Yiddish would seem like the dialect of some native speaker not far away in place and time. Admittedly I’m no specialist in philology, but nor seems he. Admittedly I did not check his references.

This being said, the book has great merits by giving an “Ideologiekritik” / “critique de l’ideologie” (pardon me, I don’t know the proper English expression) of Zionism. The book’s analysis fits well together with the argumentation patterns of right-wing journalists and (all to abundant) reader commentaries of the same ilk in Israel’s major English internet media (Jerusalem Post, Ynet, Ha’aretz): typical blind spots, gaps and non-sequiturs in argumentation, irritation triggers, allergy to the substitution test in ethics etc.

Nevertheless, both the Jerusalem Post and Ynet might be useful for antiracist purposes. Suppose you want to convince some racist of the nonsense of his views; suppose his racism comprises the opinion of an innate intelligence of all persons Jewish (50% off); suppose further that he’s willing to ply under evidence (98% off); then putting him to the lecture of both papers’ reader commentaries will cure the evil rather fast. But don’t ever do that if the person is irritable (99.8% off), for his racism could very well turn 180 degrees. Well, 0.2% are perhaps not worth while …

What you say just goes above my head. I’m sure all of this has some hidden meaning that I can’t comprehend.

Just like that thing you keep telling larry about buses, or was it being on a bus?

Or that comedy from the olden days, on the buses?

Are you trying to say Larry is Blacky from on the buses?

Here’s an interesting discussion programme with Shlomo Sand as one of the guests (funny enough, he doesn’t seem too popular in Israel!);

http://frontlineclub.com/events/2009/11/avi-shlaim-in-conversation-with-shlomo-sand.html

“The Nose,” yes one of my favorite short stories.

Strangely, it seems to me, Wikipedia calls it satirical. Is it really? If so, I entirely missed the point, yet it has always delighted me.

I’d rate it alongside Cervantes story about a conversation between two dogs.

Why do some people keep posting stuff about the girl killed in the Tehran protests last year on these threads, which are about the Israeli attack on the Gaza flotilla. I’m all for exploring the story of Neda – I want to watch the documentary – and for criticising the Iranian regime, etc., but it seems to me that the positioning of such references on these particular threads is an attempt to divert attention from the mass murder carried out this week by the Israeli state.

Alfred, what’s the one about the dogs called? Just so I can look it up. Thanks.

Arsalan, now there’s a thought. ‘On the Buses’. Absolutely!

People who are mortified by the difference between Israel’s original aspirations and the belligerent ethno-state it has become need to go back and do some homework!

The “original aspirations” are the foundational myths re-making the desert bloom,building a Jewish homeland after centuries of persecution,the “Holocaust” etc.

The reality is quite different.The masonic state-check out the literature on the Supreme Court building architecture if you don’t believe the “masonic” description-was brought about to enrich an elite few Illuminati bankers not Jews fleeing persecution.

This Anglo-US synarchy wanted a regional state with its own army,intelligence service and offshore banking facility that could powerfully project itself and dominate all its Arab neighbours with ease.

During the British Mandate administration when Arab passions became inflamed against the settlers many a civil disturbance was allowed to run its course deliberately to sow the seeds of long-running animosities and hatred.The settlers’ sponsors wanted aggresive power-projectionists who could stand on their own two feet and fight their corner.

This was the British strategy particularly during the time when Herbert Samuel,a Jew, was High Commissioner for Palestine.The settlers hoping for some respite were cruelly disappointed.

To see the heavily propagandized militaristic and paranoic siege mentality inculcated

in today’s Israeli youth by the state education and intelligence apparatus is to see merely the logical extension of the original British toughening-up of the settlers policy!

Curiously enough the militaristic ethno-state is a mirror image of the Nazi German state.Parallels between the racial supremacism promoted by both Nazis and Zionists were unmissable in the 1930s as well.The Transfer Agreement between the two laid the basis of the embryonic Israeli state’s industrial infrastructure in the 1930s.

Hitler had been persuaded of the merits of coming to an accommodation with the Zionists by Schiff/Warburg financial backing he’d received earlier when the Nazis had been struggling at the polls.However he had no illusions himself about the real envisaged elite purposes behind his financial backers’ plans for the new state:

“For while the Zionists try to make the world believe that national consciousness of the Jew desires satisfaction in creation a state in Palestine the Jews again slyly dupe the dumb Goyim.It doesn’t enter their heads to build a Jewish state for the purposes of living there.All they want is a central organization for their international world swindle endowed with its sovereign rights and removed from the intervention of other states.A haven for convicted scoundrels and a university for budding crooks.”

Those who ignore the role played by long-term planning in history and who remain ensnared in their official “cock-up” theories will inevitably be surprised when things turn out exactly as the long-term planners intended they should!

P.S.You may not be deemed adult enough to read this stuff.The Zio-shills and their gate-keepers are determined to make sure you don’t get to the truth re-Israel.

Craig

It is not true that the ZF demonstrated alongside the EDL and comments have been left pointing this out on Tony Greenstein’s blog, where the allegation was first made.

We (CST) have made our position on the EDL very clear on several occasions on our blog (thecst.org.uk/blog), most recently yesterday.

So I would ask you to correct your post.

Thanks

Dave Rich

CST

@Craig

Not a helpful comment for two reasons: nationalism need not manifest itself as racism; and it’s wrong to judge people by the company they keep.

As someone upthread mentioned you have strange bedfellows here in this blog, and that’s not really in your control.

Coming back to the first point, during the troubles many Irish nationalists tried to brand unionism as inherently racist. Post Good Friday, mainstream unionism has done much to distance itself from any racist manifestation, but remains undiminished.

Nationalism is a human condition – it can be vey ugly, but not necessarily so.

As for “how can a religion lay claim to a national homeland?” – it’s extremely problematic, but that’s how it is. How can anyone possibly reverse that now?

You only have 40 or so posts about Palestine – I suggest you continue to express a justified anger, but from a firm basis of respect.

Dont let your voice be dismissed as ranting.

Max Blumenthal on the willingness of right wing Jewish Americans to associate with the European far right:

http://maxblumenthal.com/2010/03/so-who-are-the-nazis-meet-atlass-thugs/

Charles Johnston of Little Green Footballs cited the American right’s willingness to support European proto-fascists (e.g. BNP) as part of his reason for parting ways:

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/35243_Why_I_Parted_Ways_With_The_Right

Suhayl,

It was the colloquy of Dogs (Coloquio de los Perros).

I cannot immediately find the full text online, but here’s some info about it.

http://www.jstor.org/pss/434992

Thanks very much, Alfred. I’ll check it out.

In the past, I’ve often been intrigued by articles on Jstor; they usually give the first couple of paragrpahs, which often intrigues, but one cannot get further access unless one is an active student/ faculty of a university – very frustrating!

Woof!