Why Israel Should Know Better

by craig on June 8, 2010 4:13 pm in Palestine

childwarsaw.jpg

Child smuggling food into the Warsaw Ghetto

childgaza.jpg

Child smuggling food into Gaza

We hoped the world would never forget. How tragic that it is Israel that has forgotten most completely.

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101 Comments

  1. Says it all

  2. Stupid and despicable comparison, unless of course you want to get real and admit that Hamas = Nazis.

    Then you are talking sense Mr. Humanitarian who sheds tears of joy when innocent men are murdered (South Africa, Terreblanche – not a single crime commmitted, simply for being a Bore with a political agenda).

  3. Who is being despicable here? Craig Murray, the Nazis in Warsaw in the 1930’s, or Israel in Palestine now?

    Two out of three for me – and Craig is 100% fair in his comparison.

    How are Hamas like the Nazis except in one respect? – having been voted in democratically.

    Shame on Israel. Both historically and now you have justifiably so much support, sympathy and empathy from so many corners of the world. Yet you squander it by setting out to crush Palestinians like inferior race cockroaches. Palestine = Lebensraum.

  4. Brilliant post, tragic message!

    Shame on the Nazis and shame on Israel.

    It’s not too late for one of these two aberrations to be stopped…

  5. The parallels between Militant Zionism and Nazism are there…

    – the belief in racial superiority

    – the practice of collective punishment and erasure of entire communities

    – the denial of deliberate genocide

    – the claim to be the self-appointed bastion of western civilisation against the hordes from the East

    – the settler/ lebensraum thing

    a few days ago I read a press release from Israel which claimed that things can’t be that bad in Gaza because Gaza has expensive restaurants and lovely swimming pools. This creeped me out because it reminded me of the revisionist claim that Auschwitz couldn’t have been all that bad because it too had a swimming pool

  6. StefZ: yes, I noticed that on your own interesting and amusing blog. Why don’t you put your URL in the available box? Lights under bushels and all that.

  7. Alan Green “Then you are talking sense Mr. Humanitarian who sheds tears of joy when innocent men are murdered (South Africa, Terreblanche – not a single crime commmitted, simply for being a Bore with a political agenda).”

    Craig actually said he wouldn’t shed any tears for Terreblanche, not that he was happy about it.

    Also i think you mean the neo-nazi Terreblanche was a Boer, though he was definitely a bore as well.

  8. @mj – I’ve an aversion to using other folk’s blogs for self-publicity, can’t be arsed to deal with the Haribo kiddies full-time and would like to spare Craig any guilt by association, but ta anyway

  9. StefZ: fair enough, but it’s what the URL box is for y’know.

  10. “Terreblanche – not a single crime commmitted”

    AllanGreen should keep up. It has since transpired that TerreBlanche was sexually abusing one of the boys in question. It was self-defence by the sound of it. Oh, hang on, they were only blacks, not Israelis, so that argument doesn’t hold water. Sorry.

  11. @AllanGreen

    ‘South Africa, Terreblanche – not a single crime committed, simply for being a Bore’

    Trying to defend the Criminals with omissions, lies deflection what about seems to be the Hasbara way.you forgot to mention that Terre’Blanche spent three years in prison for assaulting a black petrol station worker and the attempted murder of a black security guard in 1996.

  12. Here’s a link to some of that crude PR I was talking about…

    ‘Fancy restaurants and Olympic-size swim pools: what the media won’t report about Gaza’

    http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispatches/archives/001114.html

    Apparently, Gaza is so full of cakes there simply isn’t enough room for any more humanitarian aid

    What I don’t understand is where the Zionist reputation for sophisticated PR comes from

  13. The justice of the comparison aside, the Holocaust is no reason at all for Israel to know better, any more than the rape of Nanking is a reason for the Chinese government to play nicely. Governments and the law-abiding citizens who follow them have never seen the horrors of history as reasons to be decent to one another; generally quite the reverse. Two wrongs may not make a right, but various selected wrongs can make an awfully jolly excuse.

  14. There is one difference and only one difference between Israel and Nazi Germany.

    And that is Nazi Germany didn’t hire Public relations experts in Washington.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSp-oIOhq00

  15. Michael Petek

    8 Jun, 2010 - 6:39 pm

    Give over, Craig!

    The Warsaw Ghetto was established on October 16, 1940 and sealed it off on November 16. Average food rations in 1941 for Jews in Warsaw were limited to 186 calories, compared to 1669 calories for gentile Poles and 2,614 calories for Germans. In other words, Jews were allocated less than 12 per cent of Polish rations, and less than 8 per cent of German.

    The only way to avoid being starved to death was to smuggle food in. Nevertheless, people died like flies of starvation and disease in there, and the Germans would shoot anyone entering or leaving it, particularly if they were taking food into it, whether or not they were Red Cross, the UNRWA or anything else.

    The population of the Warsaw Ghetto was 400,000, thirty per cent of the population of Warsaw concentrated on 2.4 per cent of its surface area.

    Of these over 100,000 died due to rampant disease or starvation, as well as random killings, even before the Nazis began deportations on 23 July 1942.

    The other key difference between Gaza and the Warsaw Ghetto is that there was a regular rail service to Treblinka, single tickets only, no returns and no seasons.

    Which of you fellow-bloggers think Treblinka was really a shower-bath complex?

    I submit, M’Lud, that only a sicko could have come up with this kind of comparison.

  16. Michael Petek

    you completely missed the point.

  17. I disagree, Israel shouldn’t be compared to nazi germany. It should be compared to some demonic hybrid of nazi germany and apartheid south africa.

    When interviewing Golda Meir , Alan Hart the ITV news correspondence, said that if Israel continued its policies, people will be talking about israelis in jackboots.

    Golder Meir recoiled in horror. No they couldn’t she replied.

    Welcome to israel 2010

  18. Zionist redux:

    The pictures are completely different because I have decided that I want them to be so.

    In fact, the bottom picture depicts a man and a woman riding a tandem through the French countryside.

  19. There is a difference between Nazi Germans and Zionists, and that is gas is less painful than being burnt alive by white phosphorus.

    News

    Gaza patients “forced” to help security services in exchange for Israeli medical treatment

    Merav Sarig

    1 Jerusalem

    The first 150 words of the full text of this article appear below.

    A report issued this week by Physicians for Human Rights-Israel indicates that the Shin Bet security services conduct a policy of forcing patients to provide information as a condition of being allowed to leave the Gaza Strip for medical care.

    According to the human rights organisation the number of Palestinian patients who are summoned for interrogation as a precondition to receiving an exit permit from Gaza for treatment has risen. Between January 2008 and March 2009 at least 438 patients were interrogated by the Shin Bet.

    The report, which was presented this week to the United Nations Committee against Torture, in Geneva, also shows that the Shin Bet has begun interrogating minors in need of medical care, to photograph patients against their will, and to detain patients for undisclosed periods of time. According to testimonies, patients who do not cooperate are returned to Gaza without receiving a permit to exit . . . [Full text of this article]

  20. There are an ocean of lies being spread by Zionists across the internet as well as their Zionist owned news media. The fact is that Palestine is being gradually wiped off the map.

  21. Ah, Michael Petek. Still hawking the sophistry, eh?

    By your reasoning, the Israelis are allowed to kill 5,99,999 Palestinians with impugnity. because that’s less than those who died in the Holocaust.

    In other words, “Israel must be right to blockade the Palestinians, because sometime in the past, Jews had it worse.”

    What fun.

  22. Perfect comparison because OBVIOUSLY Israelis are the modern day NAZIS. In fact the Israelis make the Germans look like girl scouts.

  23. Dave when Israel’s body count gets to 6 000 001 he will just use some other excuse to defend them.

  24. hmmmm, free passes all round for any psychos who decide to wipe out an ethnic group with a total population of less than six million

  25. Russias blockade of all roads to Berlin encouraged the allies to enact the airlift, without it Berlin would have fallen into east German hands.

    When did this one sided blockade, just as Israels, ever lead Russians or east Germans into shooting down those planes, because they were delivering something or other?

    Your angst and paranoia about people’s abillities to use soup cans to make projectiles and ground down pasta as bulking agent, is so far fetched its untrue.

    This is a nation that likes to operate in other peoples backwater, interfere when it suits their policies and/or create some leverage over the agenda of others, whether its violent like in Sabra, Shatila or underhand as in Kashmir.

    A nation that believes it has the right to flaunt its nuclear secrecy,, upholding apartheid regimes like South Africa with their arms and nukes, not to speak of oppressing/impressing everyone with the prospect of using nuclear weapons against its neighbours, has no rights at all to demand to investigate itself.

    And not just one person comes up with this silly self defeasting idea, a de facto introduction by some learned professors, age old university laureates with lenghty letters behind their names, whatever, if they somehow introduce some nutty report on limited first use strikes,etc., then it is seen as enough to introduce a debate, whether nukes in business coffers are a laudable proposition to debate, indeed all things nuclear and with a world audience, as if it is a viable option to calculate in innocent civilian collateral murder, polluting uninvolved third and fourth countries with nuclear fall out, as it suits with all the resulting follow on illness and problems?

    The cabal leading Israel into an uncertain and violent future are causing damage to its world standing, trust and no doubt, business? Palestinians will not go away and will have equal rights, at least, to the land of Palestine.

    I for one can still feel the frustrations that must have left Helen Walters body, when she said what she said, a lifelong of holding back your emotions, when you know what you get to know,i.e. that Israel has misused the worlds provision of a state and should stop acting like a spoiled brat.

  26. If the Israelis killed 11 million, they would just find ways of calculating it to equal less than 6 million.

  27. As someone with jewish ancestors, I feel the comparisons with the NAZI’s and the horror of the Warsaw Ghetto, are offensive, over-the-top, and inaccurate.

    Israel isn’t really comparable to NAZI Germany. There are profound and important differences. To imply that these differences are not important is foolish.

    Things are bad enough in Gaza without the need to let rhetoric, bordering on hysteria, take over completely. The truth speaks for itself and doesn’t need to be exaggerated beyond reason.

    Because Israeli government propaganda is so pervasive, blatant, and false, it doesn’t follow that one should adopt precisely the same methods to counter it, on the contrary, one shouldn’t stoop to such methods.

  28. Unfortunately, states have very selective memories for the most part. Neither are they moral entities that ‘learn’ and have ‘conciences’. The past, or history, is a useful ‘tool’ to be exploited in the present, to tell a story about… NOW. That this story is often false, or a mixture of fact and legend, a myth, doesn’t matter, as long as it works.

    What are states for? States are ‘machines’ designed for control and conquest. For this one needs an impressive ideology, often based on land, blood, or ‘religion’. Then one creates an army and once you’ve got an army it’s usually used to expand the power and territory of the state.

    Israel is no exception here. It’s just a very new state and therefore it’s ‘normal’ state characteristics are so much more extreme and obvious. In this sense it reminds one of Prussia or the United States. Agressive, effective, expanding, ruthless, powers in their time. Or the British Empire, when it was on a role.

    What we seem to think are special characteristics of Israel or even, God forbid, ‘jews’ are nothing of the sort. They are the characteristics of new states, which are like teenagers armed with machine guns and high on crack cocaine.

  29. It’s odd really, given their status and wealth, that so many members of my family were so enamoured with the ideas surrounding the political and social concept of anarchy. Perhaps it was because so many of them seem to have been a strange mix of idealists and cynics, and that they seemingly never took things very seriously, especially not states and their ideology. Our family motto should have been, as one of them used to say, my country is in my pocket, meaning his wallet.

    But then there were the other lot, the soldiers, who seemed to despise the ‘money men’ for some reason, as if killing was more truthful and noble than creating wealth and profitting from it.

    What’s strange is why are so many people so ready to kill and die for a pack of lies? A pack of lies that comes out of the mouth of the state. Over and over again they do it, in absurd war after war. Dying and killing in their millions, tens of millions, for ‘fairytales’ imprinted on their brains by… by people like me, or at least the person I might have become in an earlier time. Now, I’m just a black sheep.

  30. Writerman call it for what it is, whether it is offensive or not.

    A Rabbi actually gave a talk in our mosque

    about what happening to the Muslims now being exactly like what he experienced from the Nazis.

    This is what Norman Finklestein said to a bitch who got upset about the comparison.

    http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=104552879570118

    If Zionists do not want to be compared to Nazis, they should stop behaving like Nazis.

  31. whilst I agree with a lot of what you say writerman you shoot yourself in the foot with an opening line which at least implies that your ancestry gives weight to your opinion in some way

    and then you talk about history being invoked as a useful tool

  32. The significance of identifying parallels with past horrors is that some of the people commiting present horrors argue that what has gone in the past somehow validates what is being done today

    this is blatant hypocrisy and deserves to be identified as such

    and one of the reasons why I personally object to what is being done today is that, yes, I have been taught some of the lessons of the past. What I haven’t learned to do is to be as selective as some Zionists in applying them

  33. The Zionists like bringing comparisons.

    They call anyone criticism anything they do a Nazi and compare it to Nazism.

    So we have to compare what they are doing to Nazism, because in a lot of ways what the Zionists have done is worse.

    Burning people alive with white phosphorous, something that burns to the bone. If it enters flesh it can carry on burning within the flesh for days after words.

    Seems a lot more painful and cruel than gassing people to death.

    What the Zionist did in Gaza wasn’t a fight, it wasn’t a war, it was just an incineration.

    Where every white phosphorous shell was made in America.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXg0QulzxZ4&feature=related

  34. the Nazis slaughtered people in all sorts of ways; including burning people alive in buildings

    and I doubt very much that if opponents of Israel would view the killings in the middle east any more favourably if gas was used

  35. More important information as bloggers take apart the Israeli version of the flotilla murders:

    http://aliabunimah.posterous.com/mavi-marmara-was-heading-away-from-israelgaza

    Thanks to some investigative work, it appears that the flotilla was sailing AWAY from Israel, precisely to avoid confrontation, particularly at night. It further appears that the IDF video snippet which attempted to put them in the victim role they love was timed at one hour AFTER the attack had started. The only conclusion to be drawn is that a lethal attack was planned, under cover of darkness and communication silence, and that this proceeded, even though the ships were going away from Israel. The whole thing stinks.

  36. Another reason to compare what they do now to what the Nazis did is because a lot of the laws governing things that happen now were created as a response to what Nazis did.

    For example torture and conducting medical experimentation on detainees.

    http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100607/full/news.2010.284.html

  37. Thanks for the exposure. Allow me to repost this as a poster (with credits back to you, of course).

    Here, a poster I created:

    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31426130&l=2794b26823&id=1268553951

  38. @writerman, Yes you may think of the comparison as “offensive, over the top & inaccurate”, but you are not a Palestinian. There is no measuring index for suffering, the pain of somebody being tortured to death, or feels in seeing their love-ones made to suffer, and/or murdered, does not vary from place to place, or from one time to another. Rather it is a universal unbearable anguish that is part of our humanity, and those that argue that one particular crime is greater than another on the basis of numbers, or methods, or using any other factor in seeking to differentiate , have not only lost the ability to emphasise on the human individual level, but have also lost the respect for the sanctity of other humans, because there is no difference between one life and another, or to paraphrase the Koran, to kill one man is like killing the whole of mankind.

  39. Children account for roughly a third of the dead and wounded in Gaza. Since 5 February there have been no new official updates from the Palestinian Ministry of Health on casualties and injuries in Gaza. The figure remains of 1,440 Palestinians dead, of whom 431 are children and 114 are women. This number does not include those who have died due to lack of access to regular health care. The number of injuries still stands at 5,380, of whom 1,872 are children and 800 are women.

    Three Israeli civilians were killed and 183 injured since 27 December by rocket and mortar fire by Palestinian militants from Gaza.

    Shelter:

    As at 9 February, three non-school UNRWA shelters remain open for 388 displaced people, including 217 children, as reported by OCHA and Save the Children.

    Thousands of Gazans remain homeless.

    However, most Gazans who have suffered displacement have been able to stay with host families. These families are now faced with severe shortages of food, blankets, water and electricity (OCHA).

    Priority needs for the population of Gaza include blankets, mattresses, plastic sheeting, kitchen kits, hygiene kits, water tanks, clothing and tents.

    Cash:

    As OCHA reports, Israel allowed the transfer of the equivalent of USD 42 million from banks in the West Bank to Gaza on 6 February. As reported by the Bank of Palestine, this money transfer will enable the Palestinian Authority to pay the salaries of its 70,000 Gaza-based employees. Israel last allowed cash into the Gaza Strip in mid-December 2008. More cash flow to Gaza is needed to reactivate the private sector and prevent increasing dependence on aid.

    Electricity and Fuel:

    Petrol and diesel for public use were last allowed into Gaza on 2 November 2008. As a result, all of the 240 Gaza fuel stations have closed. The Gas Station Owners Association reports a significant drop in the amount of fuel smuggled through the Gaza-Egyptian border since the beginning of February, largely due to the destruction of tunnels by Israel demolition.

    Sources in Rafah suggest an overall decrease in the amount of merchandise being smuggled into Gaza through the tunnels due to the ongoing Israeli aerial bomb attacks. According to OCHA reports, the Israeli Air Force conducted a number of bombing raids in February/March/April, targeting tunnels under the Gaza-Egyptian borders, as well as buildings and open areas in southern Gaza killing 23 people including 11 children.

    Most of Gazan households are receiving only intermittent electricity and unscheduled power cuts continue. Gaza’s power utility, GEDCO, is in urgent need of materials and concrete to repair damage to the network by Israeli bombs.

    Access:

    NGOs continue to face difficulties accessing the Gaza Strip to carry out humanitarian work. Humanitarian personnel are only allowed to enter Gaza through the Erez crossing after receiving prior clearance by the Israeli authorities.

    Access constraints continue to hinder relief efforts in Gaza. Urgently needed construction materials to rebuild destroyed schools, hospitals, clinics and homes are not allowed to Gaza as well as necessary educational supplies for children in Gaza. Spare parts and fuel for the power plant, hospitals and water and sewage treatment facilities have also been blocked, in addition to plastic sheeting which is used for plastic bags to distribute food.

    According to UNSCO and OCHA, approximately 10,000 truckloads of goods entered Gaza in August 2000, while approximately 1,000 truckloads entered Gaza in January 2010. In the meantime, the population increased by approximately 24 percent.

    Help is urgently needed. Please do something to help us.

  40. Nice try Leokid. Liked both of your historical comparisons by pictures. Those young men grinning and mocking the dispossessed Arab woman still haunts me. She was even wearing those dresses with the shoulder pads which my mother is so fond of no matter how retro they look.

  41. Michael Petek

    9 Jun, 2010 - 1:06 am

    Dave and Arsalan, I won’t accuse you of sounding more stupid than you are, because I’m convinced that you are in fact imbecilically stupid.

    Warsaw – population 1,711,446; area 200 square miles; density 8557 per square mile

    Gaza Strip – population 1,500,202; area 139 square miles; density 10,793 per square mile

    Warsaw Ghetto – population 400,000; area 1.3 square miles; density 307,697 per square mile

    Anyone who says that the Israelis are treating Palestinians exactly as the Nazis treated Jews is, frankly, a liar. Every year the number of Palestinians alive is greater than it was the previous year. From 1941 to the last gassings in Auschwitz in November 1944 the Nazis had killed near enough half of all the Jews in the world by all sorts of gruesome methods including industrialised mass slaughter.

    The only reasons Craig or anyone else could have for drawing such demented comparisons between the Israelis and the Nazis is, firstly, gratuitously to hurt Jews, especially those who personally suffered under Nazi rule, and secondly to convince themselves and others that the Israelis are equally as evil and odious as the Nazis, from which it is but a short step to concluding that they are indeed yids and kikes and that Hitler was right.

  42. Neil Barker

    9 Jun, 2010 - 1:12 am

    Can’t see any child in the Gaza picture.

  43. We have a winner.

    I wrote : Zionist redux:

    “The pictures are completely different because I have decided that I want them to be so.

    In fact, the bottom picture depicts a man and a woman riding a tandem through the French countryside.”

    And here we have the first person whose ideology is so strong they can’t see a child in the bottom picture!

    Amazing. What is then? A vase of flowers?

  44. “Every year the number of Palestinians alive is greater than it was the previous year”.

    A shocking statistic. The Israelis clearly are not culling them fast enough. No wonder they target pregnant women.

    “…gratuitously to hurt Jews, especially those who personally suffered under Nazi rule”

    Or perhaps rather a sharp reminder, to jolt them into some awareness of what is being done in their name.

    “…to convince themselves and others that the Israelis are equally as evil and odious as the Nazis”

    What, if anything, could the Israelis do that would convince you that they had become as odious the Nazis? I would seriously like to know.

    “from which it is but a short step to concluding that they are indeed yids and kikes and that Hitler was right”.

    And you accuse Arsalan of being “imbecilically stupid”! What underpins Craig’s post is obviously the conviction that Hitler was wrong. What beggars belief is that his methods are being increasingly adopted by his victims, just as child-abuse victims so often become abusers themselves in later years.

    Craig’s comment makes the point perfectly: “We hoped the world would never forget. How tragic that it is Israel that has forgotten most completely”. i think you hsve to be pretty twisted not to appreciate the point.

  45. Neil Barker

    9 Jun, 2010 - 2:09 am

    “And here we have the first person whose ideology is so strong they can’t see a child in the bottom picture!”

    I see an adult. You see what you’re told to see.

  46. @ Niel Barker

    ‘Can’t see any child in the Gaza picture.’

    Allow me remind you of few others than. Unless you have selective vision and compassion like the Director General of the BBC.There are volumes of crimes by Israelis here are few. Just like Nazis who never saw Jews as humans the Israels do not see Arabs as humans.

    A Gaza Diary

    Scenes from the Palestinian Uprising, An exploration of life in a Gaza refugee camp, by Chris Hedges of the NY Times. “I have never before watched soldiers entice children like mice into a trap and murder them for sport.”

    http://www.harpers.org/online/gaza_diary/

    Gaza Children in Crisis

    Save the Children needs your support to help us meet the most critical needs of children and families in Gaza with vital food, water and medical supplies.

    http://www.savethechildren.org/ emergencies/ middle-east-crisis/ gaza-children-in-crisis.html

    Children of Gaza :: Home

    In January 2009 over 1300 Palestinians were killed in Gaza. Around 300 of them children. … of Gaza gives us a unique insight into the impact of war on vulnerable young minds.

    http://www.childrenofgazafund.org

    Children of Gaza – Worldnews Network

    Like a number of other children who witnessed horrific events during last year’s 23-day Israeli military …

    http://www.childrenofgaza.net

    Al-Ahram Weekly Gaza’s suffering children

    The Israeli occupation and its relentless attacks destroy the mental health and lives of children of Gaza, writes Saleh Al-Naami

    weekly.ahram.org.eg/2008/890/re1.htm

    Video: Children of Gaza

    guardian.co.uk

    A freelance filmmaker in Gaza shot this material for Save the Children at a UN-supported school for pupils displaced from their homes

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2009/jan/13/gaza

    YouTube – More children among Gaza dead

    Palestinian children are increasingly among the dead as the Gaza death toll continues to rise.One man has lost his entire family – including children, wife,

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5wrwZlwAq8

    A Jew’s Prayer for the Children of Gaza

    A Jew’s prayer for the children of Gaza-News and commentary relating to events in Israel, the occupied territories, and the world, along with an archive of past issues … a realistic prayer for Gaza

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1052871.html

    Israel launched its campaign of terror against Gaza on December 27, 2008. … The children of Gaza who survived this modern day holocaust are increasingly …

    http://www.savegazachildren.com

    Israeli Massacre of Palestinian Children in Gaza

    Israel has now massacred over 300 ; Palestinian children in Gaza … To add to the monstrous nature of the onslaught of the Gaza Strip, Israeli armed forces are utilizing white phosphorus bombs

    http://www.aztlan.net/gaza/gaza_massacre_of_children.php

    For Children of Gaza, Scars to Last a Lifetime – washingtonpost.com

    GAZA CITY, Jan. 25 — One by one, the seventh-graders rose from their old wooden desks and, in toneless voices that betrayed neither sadness nor surprise, spoke of horrible things.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/ content/ article/ 2009/ 01/ 25/ AR2009012502049.html –

    Report: IDF killed women and children with white flags in Gaza – Israel News, Ynetnews

    More than six months after Israel’s Gaza offensive, Operation Cast Lead, accusations are still being leveled against the IDF’s combat ethic. Human Rights Watch published a report Thursday detailing testimonies of seven incidents in which Palestinian civilians in the Gaza

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3761371,00.html

    Killing the Children of Gaza

  47. Ah, Michael Petek. Lapsing from sophistry to ad hominem attacks. The former suited you better. How frustrating it must be to have such strong opinions, yet have no facts to argue with. Like an armless man who’s fallen in a deep hole, you just can’t get yourself free.

    Face it. You are here because you are trying to convince yourself that Israel is not acting evilly. You are smart enough to know you will never change the mind of anyone here, so why else do you come back? I do not believe you are one of the paid trolls.

    I believe, with all sincerity, that there is a sane man inside you, trying desperately to get out.

  48. Michael Petek

    9 Jun, 2010 - 7:38 am

    MJ asks:

    “What, if anything, could the Israelis do that would convince you that they had become as odious the Nazis? I would seriously like to know.”

    The Israelis could do the following:

    They could launches an official campaign to deprive Israeli Arabs of all political rights and all legal protection.

    Then they could slander and set out to wipe out all the Arabs, to burn every trace of them and their beliefs from the face of the earth, to make it as though they never were and ensure they never will be again.

    To convince me that they had become as odious as the Nazis, the Israelis could organise deportations of Arabs from Gaza to extermination centres, say, inside Israel. They could euthanise their sick, conduct medical experiments on them, turn their skins into lampshades, their heads into Ilse Koch paperweights, and their innards into soap.

    Next time rockets are fired from Gaza into Israel – which act would, of course, be the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising – the Israelis could send their military into Gaza to kill or deport to extermination every Arab man, woman and child. They could impose a death penalty on Israelis who hid Arabs or helped them to escape.

    Once finished, the Israelis could raze every last building in the Gaza Strip, turning it into a moonscape resembling post-Bomb Hiroshima. See the photos in the Wikipedia entry on the Warsaw Ghetto.

    To convince me that Israelis are as odious as the Nazis, they could do things you can read about under the Wikipedia entry on the ‘Armenian Genocide’.

  49. Craig – your comparisons are odious. To compare the Warsaw Ghetto, which was a holding pen for the gas chambers, with Gaza is specious and illiterate.

  50. http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100609/OPINION/706089918/1080

    Worthwhile reading. Cook explains that within Israel there is a strong belief that Israel exists fundamentally to realise Jewish power and that Israel embodies the Jewish people’s collective experience as the eternal victims of history.

    For the rest of the world as on-lookers on the recent deadly commando raid, the decades-long relentless ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians, and the ceaseless bloodlust for wars with its neighbours the conclusion can only be that the world can no longer afford to indulge let alone endorse, fund and participate in these delusions.

    Israel’s delusions may justify endless war in the Middle East for themselves, Iran next as our leaders take us into another war like mindless nodding dogs, but I for one have no such deathwish.

  51. “They could launches an official campaign to deprive Israeli Arabs of all political rights and all legal protection.”

    As opposed an unofficial one that just just deprives some of their rights and most of their land as it is now?

    “Then they could slander and set out to wipe out all the Arabs, to burn every trace of them and their beliefs from the face of the earth, to make it as though they never were and ensure they never will be again.”

    On schedule and rocking. Did you hear the claims recently by some high ranking Israeli official stating that he wanted to do precisely this?

    “To convince me that they had become as odious as the Nazis, the Israelis could organise deportations of Arabs from Gaza to extermination centres,”

    Well keep the current crop of lunatics in power and I’m sure that’ll happen given enough time. Maybe if you folk stopped voting in terrorists like those found in Likud you might avoid going further down this road?

    “Next time rockets are fired from Gaza into Israel – which act would, of course, be the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising – the Israelis could send their military into Gaza to kill or deport to extermination every Arab man, woman and child.”

    Why bother sending in troops when you can bomb them with high explosives and white phosphorous? It’s so much more effective and cost efficient. Then you send in your troops to scoop up the remains… Not unlike what you did earlier this year in fact.

    “Once finished, the Israelis could raze every last building in the Gaza Strip”

    Well sooner or later, given that you fellas refuse to allow any building materials into the place whilst at the same time bombing the ever loving snot out of suspected terrorist bases you will eventually run out of buildings to bomb.

  52. @Michael Petek

    You have evidently taken some time to consider this; is it what would convince you or what you desire?

  53. A visit to Petek’s crazed http://www.crownofdavid.com/english/israel.htm

    proves that Christian Zionism is more dangerous and more hateful than Zionism itself.

  54. Man oh Man! Petek represents blind religious fanaticism. No wonder he can’t see what’s happening in Gaza, he’s not a Zionist, he’s a Zealot.

  55. Michael Petek

    If Israel did all that wouldn’t you wouldn’t you continue to support Israel as you believe it they are the master race, the choosen people?

    Or would you stop believing that it is a religious obligation to support them at that point?

  56. “@Michael Petek

    You have evidently taken some time to consider this; is it what would convince you or what you desire?”

    Well, that is pretty sick and snide.

    Michael Petek is clearly a religious loon but he is correct, as is writerman and eddie, for pointing out that the Gaza = Warsaw Ghetto comparisons are outrageous.

    There were 4000 Jews dying in the Warsaw Ghetto a year which translates as 10 per cent of the population or 100 per thousand dead.

    Look at the comparative figures here for the Gaza Strip:

    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2066rank.html

    As with writerman, I am against the Gaza blockade but the comparisons with the Nazi Holocaust are stupid and counterproductive.

  57. I do like the candles and commemorative plates of this obscure and wishfull commercial site, thats all it is.

    Michels seems to attarct the nutjobs that beleieve in some way thst they are part of the state of Israel, being jewish over seven corners.

    No doubt there will be Palestinians who object to his defiling of official flags, no doubt there will be some who might not want to pay up for the gory plates.

    @angrysoba. Go ask a psychologist and see what he tells you about abusing fathers who themselves have been abused and then have a rethink.

    There is only one argument supporting your position and that is the letter sent by Itzak Shamir to Hitler in 1941, then a member of the Stern gang, so much saying that ‘the zionist movement would be prepared to be Hitlers stallwart in the middle east, looking after the third Reichs concerns in Palestine’, to which he received no answer.

    It shows a lot about the similar mindset that led these two fascists organisations, one being the Arian race never to be bettered and the others the chosen ones, here to lead us all.

    Which one was first deluded in their ignorance of others in the world community, I cannot say, but with hindsight, Balfour was the master of delusions and should have never been listened to.

  58. angrysoba

    I have not made any comparison with the Holocaust. I have suggested that the profound experience of suffering of the Jewish people ought to make them more sympathetic to the sufferings of others – not deermined to ratchet up that pressure.

    Where do you think the crowded people of Gaza came from, by the way?

  59. “There were 4000 Jews dying in the Warsaw Ghetto a year which translates as 10 per cent of the population or 100 per thousand dead.”

    Sorry, that should be 4000 people a MONTH which translates as 10 per cent per YEAR.

    The Warsaw ghetto’s population increased due to deportations TO the ghetto. Until, of course, they were sent off for execution.

  60. “I have not made any comparison with the Holocaust. I have suggested that the profound experience of suffering of the Jewish people ought to make them more sympathetic to the sufferings of others – not deermined to ratchet up that pressure.”

    If you mean that Jewish people ought to have a lot more solidarity with other people’s suffering and not inflict it themselves then we end up with a chicken and egg question.

    Using your argument, which I don’t endorse myself, I could say that the Arab people should have been more sympathetic to those driven off their land in the way Palestinians were by not having, say, Jews driven out of Tripoli, Baghdad and Cairo.

    I don’t accept the idea that “the Arab people” is homogenous, though.

    “Where do you think the crowded people of Gaza came from, by the way?”

    Many of them are refugees, of course.

    Some cynical Israelis might think this, “If only Egypt had taken Gaza back after the Six Day War then no one would actually care about the people of Gaza at all and it wouldn’t be our problem.”

  61. Michael Petek

    9 Jun, 2010 - 12:36 pm

    the_leander, aerial bombing isn’t as effective as direct shelling, deportation, starvation and the propagation of infectious disease. The Israelis have been occupying or blockading Gaza continuously for forty-three years. If they are implicated in genocide, they are comically inept.

    The Armenian Genocide claimed 1.5 million Armenians – the same as the population of Gaza – within three years.

    The Warsaw Ghetto was sealed off on 16 November 1940. Over the next twenty months a quarter of its population died of starvation and disease.

    By the commencement of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising on 19 April 1943 only 69,000 were left alive. The uprising was put down on 16 May 1943. 13,000 of the survivors were shot in situ, 56,000 taken away and gassed.

    If the Israelis had been on the same form as the Germans, the Arabs of Gaza would have been extinct by Christmas 1969.

    Your ‘sooner or later they’ll get round to it’ makes me wonder whether you’re a clairvoyant.

    Now, let’s examine whether the land is really the property of the Arabs. Under Islamic law non-Muslims are prohibited absolutely from owning any land at all. Under Israeli law, they’re not.

    Under Roman Law all provincial land (outside Italy) in the Empire was publicly owned, but could be held privately under long leases, the last of which expired centuries ago.

    When the Muslim Arabs invaded and conquered the Levant from the Romans they did so as aggressors who would have been the Chapter VII business of the UN Security Council, had it existed then.

    Official acts by the aggressor purporting to dispose of publicly owned land (treated under Islamic law as as ‘fay’ or war booty) are invalid and void. No conveyance into private ownership can be valid save under the hand of the British Mandate or the State of Israel.

    Anonymous, I’m not going to discuss theological subtleties with you, you wouldn’t understand them. Save that I only turn into a religious nutjob when I’m provoked by vermin like Hamas.

    Their demented and gratuitous Jew-hatred spouted incessantly over their public media is similar to the poison the Serbian media broadcast to prepare the Serbian people for war and genocide against the Croats, Bosnians and Kosovans during the 1990s. I never heard of any comparable anti-Serb propaganda from the Middle East even when Sarajevo was being shelled for months on end.

    So that’s where the ancestors of the ‘crowded people of Gaza’ came from. By the way, Craig, Gaza is no more crowded than Warsaw. Not the ghetto, the city. Similar area, similar population.

  62. Michael Petek

    “If they are implicated in genocide, they are comically inept.”

    When people call the Zionists Nazis they are saying they are as evil as Nazis, not that they are as efficient as Nazis.

    No one is saying the Zionists make the trains run on time.

    But even so it doesn’t mean Israel is so hopeless inept, because Nazi Germany had a man power of over 90 million to do what they did, more if you include its alias who are of great significance remembering that the worst concentration camps were outside of Germany.

    Both ideologies, Nazism and Zionism are a hybrid ideology of nationalism and socialism.

    But in some sense I agree with you that it isn’t accurate to call Zionists Nazis, because it is more accurate to call Nazis Zionists.

    This is because Nazis copied Zionism not the other way around.

    If you take Zionism.

    State that the Germans are the chosen people, or the master race as they called themselves.

    State that the father land is the promised land.

    State that the Jews are the Amalakites.

    Whats the difference?

    They are both the same in ever way, the only difference between the two is the means at their disposal.

  63. My mothers constant companion and good friend “Tad” survived the Holocaust because his mother fled Poland and took the family to France. His father died in a concentration camp.

    Speaking to Tad I realized that many people are not aware that millions of victims of the Holocaust were NOT Jewish.

    In fact 3 million Polish Christian, Catholics and others died. Why are those forced to wear the ‘P’ badge or be shot always referred to as the ‘others’ and nobody remembers the words of Heinrich Himmler who said on August 23rd 1939:

    “All Poles will disappear from the world…. It is essential that the great German people should consider it as its major task to destroy all Poles.”

    Perhaps the world should know these facts:

    Young Polish men were forcibly drafted into the German army.

    The Polish language was forbidden. Only the German language was allowed.

    All secondary schools and colleges were closed.

    The Polish press was liquidated.

    Libraries and bookshops were burned.

    Polish art and culture were destroyed.

    Polish churches and snyagogues were burned.

    Most of the priests were arrested and sent to concentration camps.

    Street signs were either destroyed or changed to new German names. Polish cities and towns were renamed in German.

    Ruthless obliteration of all traces of Polish history and culture.

    Why did many Poles remain in Britain?

    Because their country was occupied by the Soviet Union.

  64. “Speaking to Tad I realized that many people are not aware that millions of victims of the Holocaust were NOT Jewish.”

    And…?

  65. Michael Petek

    9 Jun, 2010 - 1:23 pm

    Arsalan,the difference between Zionism and Nazism is that Zionism is nothing more than Jewish nationalism,and it can take as many forms and expressions – civic or ethnic – as the nationalism of any other people.

    Nazism is not the same as German nationalism, because if it were then German nationhood would be illegitimate. It is based on purity of blood and race, which has no counterpart in Judaism, because anyone of any race can become a Jew by conversion.

    In biblical Judaism any foreigner could settle permanently in Israel provided that he agreed to serve the God of Israel and abstained from the capital offences of blasphemy, idolatry and trafficking in false prophecy.

    Only two things were barred to him. He could not be made King, and he could not eat the Passover. Apart from that, there was one law for everyone.

    What you are saying is that you can be a German patriot without being a Nazi, so a German can love his country and love as part of an independent German nation.

    But if you are an Israeli patriot as a German, or a Briton, or a Pole, or a Frenchman is innocuously for his country, then you are necessarily a Nazi as well as a kike.

    Rabbi Jonathan Sacks said a few years ago that the worst crimes of antisemites in the past – racism, ethnic cleansing, attempted genocide, crimes against humanity – are now attributed to the Jews and the state of Israel, so that if you are against Nazism, you must ipso facto be utterly opposed to the Jews.

  66. Michael Petek

    9 Jun, 2010 - 1:32 pm

    Spot the traces of blood-and-soil nationalism (fascism) in this:

    “Therefore, on this day unlike all others, November 15, 1988, as we stand at the threshold of a new dawn, in all honor and modesty we humbly bow to the sacred spirits of our fallen ones, Palestinain and Arab, by the purity of whose sacrifice for the homeland our sky has been illuminated and our Land given life. Our hearts are lifted up and irradiated by the light emanating from the much blessed intifada, from those who have endured and have fought the fight of the camps, of dispersion, of exile, from those who have borne the standard for freedom, our children, our aged, our youth, our prisoners, detainees and wounded, all those ties to our sacred soil are confirmed in camp, village, and town. We render special tribute to that brave Palestinian Woman, guardian of sustenance and Life, keeper of our people’s perennial flame. To the souls of our sainted martyrs, the whole of our Palestinian Arab people that our struggle shall be continued until the occupation ends, and the foundation of our sovereignty and independence shall be fortified accordingly.”

    Five points if you can name the document.

  67. Why should Israel behave when there is no pressure to do so?

    Israel was born out of abuse. It is not by any means unusual that the abused has become the abuser. In addition they have been given a ‘blank cheque’ by the USA in much the same manner as Germany did to Austria prior to the First World War. America’s military strength and its liberal use of the Veto means Israel is untouchable. Just like the school bully’s effeminate side-kick they are more aggressive than the bully himself. The real villain here is the USA and if they are not resisted the Palestinians will be scattered to the four winds or exterminated. If you are not disposed to consider the fate of small powerless cultures you should at least be concerned about the destabilising effect of Israeli expansionism. It may be that World War three has already begun.

  68. Angrysober:

    The use of the word and… in that way reminds me of the petulance my daughter took on as she struggled from girl to woman.

    Instead of labouring the obvious I refer you here:

    http://www.holocaustforgotten.com/Lucaire.htm

  69. That’s an easy one Pet(het)ek.

    http://www.al-bab.com/arab/docs/pal/pal3.htm

    and your point is?

  70. A powerful piece BP – thank-you; it reflects the whole purpose of the post.

  71. Michael Petek

    9 Jun, 2010 - 2:07 pm

    My point is, anonymous, that phrases like:

    ” . . we humbly bow to the sacred spirits of our fallen ones, Palestinain and Arab, by the purity of whose sacrifice for the homeland our sky has been illuminated and our Land given life.”

    “Our hearts are lifted up and irradiated by the light emanating from the much blessed intifada . . . ”

    speak the language of blood sacrifice from which a nation draws its existence and life. German Nazism had a similar theme, as did the genocidal Serbian nationalism of the 20th century and the 1990s.

    Serbian nationalists have a similar preoccupation with the Battle of Kosovo polje of 1389 as a blood sacrifice which sustains the Serbian nation and which must be perpetuated in the present by those who volunteer to kill and to die.

    Why do you think Hamas love death the way the rest of us love life. And if they’re in love with death, why not let the Israelis arrange the wedding?

    Who do these sacrificers think they are? Jesus Christ?

    And who does this mysterious Palestinian Woman (capitalised) think she is? The Virgin Mary?

  72. MP

    Israel doesn’t only have a sectarian aliment in awarding nationality. Like Nazi Germany it has a racial element.

    And the racial element takes precedence in Zionism over the sectarian element because the founder of Zionism, Theodor Hertzel was an Atheist.

    You said John Sacks Said:

    “are now attributed to the Jews and the state of Israel, so that if you are against Nazism, you must ipso facto be utterly opposed to the Jews.”

    I reject that statement from that Zionist. By denouncing Zionism as Nazism I don’t denounce Jews as Nazis. I denounce you as a Nazi.

    And you don’t claim to be a Jew.

    I denounce the Ideology made by the Atheist Theodor Hertzel as Nazism and Zionism, and he believed in Atheism not Judaism.

    So it is you, him and people who believe in him that I denounce as racists and Nazis not Jews and Judaism.

    Not Jews like this who believe in their religion and visibly follow it:

    http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/

    http://www.nkusa.org/

    I have said it before, there is no such thing as a Zionist Jew, because someone can only believe in Zionism if they reject Judaism. And the founder of Zionism did exactly that, he rejected Judaism, He rejected who you call the God of Israel.

    And that is what every Jew would need to do to become a Zionist because Jews believe they are only allowed to form a state after the coming of the Prophet, who they reject. So if they don’t accept Jesus, they reject their scripture by becoming Zionist.

    And you know as well as I do, few Zionist believe in God, let alone their scripture.

    You know as well as I do, for the majority of Zionist, it is all about race and nothing about religion.

    It is for the religious Jews, most if not all of whom are Anti Zionist who consider Judaism to be spirituality and not nationality.

    And in the face of mutual excommunication, I am going to consider the ones who visibly look like Jews and follow the classical Rabbis as the example of true Judaism over the non-religious followers of an open Atheist.

  73. Michael Petek

    9 Jun, 2010 - 4:57 pm

    You denounce me as a Nazi, Arslan, and I denounce you as an infidel!

  74. Micheal coming from you I will take that as a complement.

    To you I am an infidel because I am a Muslim.

    The question you need to ask yourself is do the Zionist you exhult as the chosen people consider you to be anything but an infidal?

    They don’t even see you as a monotheist!

    Even mainstream Christians don’t regard your little cult to be anything but a Heracy.

    Do you know what mainstream Churchs call Christian Zionists?

    They call you the church of the AntiChrist!

    You and your beliefs have nothing to do with Christianity and have never had anything to do with Christianity.

    I don’t need to call you an infidel, because you and your cult have already been declared infidels by the people whose religion you claim to be a part of.

    The Question you need to ask yourself, is, how many people are they that do not regard you as an infidel?

    Are there any?

  75. Michael Petek

    9 Jun, 2010 - 5:23 pm

    Just don’t call me a Nazi, Arslan!

  76. Michael your view of Muslims is the Nazi view of Jews.

    What other name do you want me to use for you.

    I can’t call you a christian, because as I have said before, there is nothing Christian about you.

    I would view calling you a christian as an insult to all those who try to follow Christ.

    Because I don’t believe you take your orders from Christ, instead you take your orders from people who reject Christ.

    I don’t take your statement that I am an infidel as an insult, I take it as a statement of fact from your prospective.

    You believe Christ is God, and the son of God, I believe he is a Prophet of God. So to you I am not a believer, that is a statement of fact and common sense.

    In the same light, from my prospective, you are a Nazi. As I have mentioned before the founders of Zionism was an Atheist. So it is all about racism and little about sectarianism. Zionism and Nazism are the same ideology, so from my prospective, and this prospective is shared by Jews who actually believe in their scripture is that Zionists are Nazis.

    Don’t take it as an insult, it is a statement of fact from my prospective.

    It shouldn’t upset you, I am not accusing you of wanting Jews dead by the statement. Just Muslims, and to you they don’t matter do they?

  77. Michael Petek

    9 Jun, 2010 - 5:50 pm

    I don’t particularly want Muslims dead, Arslan. During the Bosnian and Kosovo wars I stood with them and against the Serbs, because these Muslims had done nothing do deserve death and depredation.

    What I want from Muslims is for them to stop waging armed jihad.

    Hamas obviously can’t stop on principle, so my next demand of this bunch of sissies is that they change their religion.

  78. Michael

    I call that “Sit back and let us kill you”.

    I’m sure the Serbs would have loved it if the Muslims of Bosnia and Kosovo “stop waging armed jihad.”.

    Look if you are against fighting make a start by telling your people to stop their “stop waging armed jihad.” in Afghanistan and Iraq.

    Don’t try pretending to be some sort of tolerant liberal now, I can cut and past some of your earlier posts from other threads if I could be bothered.

    But I am not, because you know what you wrote and so do I.

    I have talked to enough Christian Zionists in the real world to know where you stand on this. And you know where I stand.

    We both know that none of this has anything to do with Hamas, because Hamas only one the election a couple of years ago, before they did, Fatah was the excuse the zionists used. And before Fatah existed it was another excuse.

    Before the Palestinians had guns and suicide bombs, Israel used stone throwing children as the excuse to shoot people, before children picked up stones it was another excuse.

    We both know, it is about the Christians and Muslims being there, they being means Israel is not a Democracy and a Jewish state. Because they are not the majority.

    Making life hard, and causing people to leave is what it is all about.

    It might not be gas chambers, but both have the same purpose.

    Be honest, do you agree with the Israeli right that the Palestinians including the ones with Israeli citizenship should just pack up and leave?

    I know enough about your beliefs to know that you look forward to what true Christians and Muslims dread. You look forward to the rapture and the arrival of the Antichrist.

    and that is why you support Israel.

    Your support has nothing to do with the scripture, because Israel does not honor the scripture at all, they don’t honor their own scripture and you are crazy if you think they honor yours.

    Israel is ruled by the an Amalgamation of Nationalism and Socialism that I call Nazism, not the Laws of the Torah or even the Talmud.

    And you know this.

    You will use your “armed jihad.” to propagate Israeli interests. And If I told you and Israel to use pacifism against us instead we would be laughed at.

    So don’t expect any other response from me, when you tell us to respond to what Israel throws at us with “stop waging armed jihad.” and this goes for the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq too.

    I will tell you what, you use your way and we will use ours.

    And my way is not hamas and the firecrackers they through in to Israel.

    Because as you know they achieve nothing. Both Israel and Hamas don’t want to admit it, but those bangs are nothing more than a nuisance.

    My solution is one that works. A reunification of Muslim lands followed by an invasion.

    If it results in a defeat, than repetitions until there is a success. and only one success is required.

    What happens afterwords is what we can talk about now. If people like me run the state, Jews and others will be able to live where ever they want with maximum autonomy as equal citizens. The ones that want to remain can remain.

    But I will will admit, not every Muslim thinks like me. So people like you better pray it is people like me who take control of the Islamic world and not Muslims who think like you.

  79. Michael Petek

    9 Jun, 2010 - 6:31 pm

    The Muslims of Bosnia and Kosovo weren’t waging armed jihad, it was a war for survival. It wasn’t their agenda to impose Islamic law, and they haven’t done it to this day.

    Hamas have explicitly chosen to wage religious war to reduce Christians and Jews to subservience and dhimmitude. Those who elected them have to take responsibility for this. If that is their choice, then Israel and Egypt can crush them.

  80. Michael Petek

    9 Jun, 2010 - 6:52 pm

    Very interesting post from Nonie Darwish:

    “Just look at our Islamic law books and see the most cruel and unusual punishments ever created in any culture on earth. Only a culture that demands war and terror can promote such cruelty.

    As to your question about hating my father, again I want to assure you that I adore and respect my father more than all of the people of Gaza. Actually I love him and wish him heaven not because he killed Jews, but because he was a good human being who was respected by many including the Israeli soldiers who killed him. He was known even to Israel as a cut above his peers and had integrity and honor. My father was the victim of the blood-thirsty culture of death all around him. He is one of the many thousands and even millions of victims of the jihad ideology, practiced over the last 1400 years.”

    Read the whole thing here:

    http://arabsforisrael.com/

  81. “The Muslims of Bosnia and Kosovo weren’t waging armed jihad, it was a war for survival. It wasn’t their agenda to impose Islamic law, and they haven’t done it to this day.”

    It is not up to you, an Islam hater who defines Jihad. It is our scripture, and according to our scripture the attack which the Surbs inflicted on the Muslims of Bosnia made Jihad compulsory.

    And that is why Muslims from all over the world flocked there to fight with their Bosnian brothers, even though they knew they would be imprisoned, tortured and even executed by their Pro-American governments when they return home.

    “Hamas have explicitly chosen to wage religious war to reduce Christians and Jews”

    Where do you get this nonsense from? Are you lying or do you truly believe the nonsense that you come out with?

    Is that what it is, do you believe this rubbish, are you truly mad?

    It was the white faced invaders from Europe who kicked out the Palestinian Christians not Hamas.

    Both Palestinian Christians and Muslims live under Israeli domination and subjugation.

    But why would any of this matter to you? Do you even regard them as Christian, because they certainly sure as hell don’t regard you as Christian.

    And than you cut and past a quote from a Islam hating Zionist, assuming that her Arab ancestry might add some credibility to her Islam bashing blabbering.

    Heard it all before, take your Nonie Darwish and shave it up your arse.

    When I want to know about Islam I read the Quran, not the blabberings of Islam hating Zionists.

    So what makes her an authority on Islam for the likes of you?

    Did she study Islam at a famous Islamic university?

    Or does she teach Islamic studies at Harverd, Oxford or Cambridge?

    Or is it because she is a Islam hating Zionist with an Arab sounding name?

    Look if you want to know about Islam, get your self a copy of the Quran,

    I have read the Bible, that is why I haven’t attacked Christianity at all in response to your attacks on Islam. Reading the bible has shown me, you have nothing to do with the Bible, you have nothing to do with christianity. you are just an Islam hating, hate- mongering Zionist(And you know when I say Zionist, I mean Nazi).

  82. Michael Petek

    9 Jun, 2010 - 7:54 pm

    And you wonder why the whole world hates you.

  83. I’m not sure what world you are referring to when you say “The whole world hates you”, because it isn’t this one.

    It is some world you have created in your mind and experienced only in Hollywood films.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mi1ZNEjEarw

    So what is this world you are talking about that hates me?

    Are you talking about 1/4 of the planet who are Muslims who believe in that religion YOU so hate?

    Are you talking about the South Americans who live in the countries your government attacks?

    How about the Africans who are starved to death by American banks?

    How about the South East Asians such as the Vietnamese whose countries your government bombed.

    Is it the people on those ships, who came from every country who belonged to every religion to risk their lives to feed our people in Gaza?

    Who are these people that hate me?

    Because when ever their is a vote in the UN about Zionism, it is the whole world on one side and America and Israel on the other.

    So this proves there is someone who the whole world hates, and it is not me!

    And have you asked Israelis what they think of you and your beliefs?

    I think you will find that if you love someone, it doesn’t mean that they love you.

    They might fight us, but they despise you.

    They know you for what you are. They can see through your false love. And know every word that comes out of your lips is a false ploy to steal souls.

    At the same time Christians regard your new religion, Christian Zionism as a heresy.

    So tell me, who one Earth loves you?

    Is there anyone who doesn’t hate you?

  84. Michael Petek

    9 Jun, 2010 - 9:40 pm

    My government – the British Government – wasn’t involved in the Vietnam War, you ignoramus!

    If you want to find out which of the peoples of the world hates you, look at Sudan where the jihad killed two million non-Muslims.

    East Timor where the jihad cut the population by a third.

    Nigeria, where Islamic Jihad murders Christians in an ongoing campaign.

    Egypt, where the Coptic Christians are subjected to genocide.

    http://hrcari.org/

  85. I didn’t know there were any nutters like you here.

    Are you sure your not an American?

    What happened in East Timur happened using British and American weapons.

    You might blame Muslims, but the victims but the people there blame you.

    The tribal conflicts in Africa are between herdsmen and farmers.

    People like you like to add in a religious dimension, because it aids your hate mongering and so do gutter press, but ask Africans who they hate and it is the white colonialists.

    The people who colonised their lands, carried off a large section of their population to the Caribbean and America. And even now impoverish their nations with debt and support for dictators.

    It is you hate mongering racists that they hate, not us.

    If you think African Christians are full of love for you and your Zionism, you are sadly mistaken.

    Yes there are conflicts in the continent, and yes they sometimes take a religious dimension.

    But we all know whose the enemy, and that enemy is you!

  86. “My government – the British Government – wasn’t involved in the Vietnam War, you ignoramus!”

    You know when you make statements like that, you really aught to check your facts first.

    The SAS were sent into Vietnam for “training purposes” early into the conflict. Basically they used the place as live fire practice.

  87. Great article on the NYT – and it also applies to many other MSM outlets, to a greater or lesser degree:

    http://www.zcommunications.org/the-new-york-times-as-war-mongers-by-edward-herman

  88. “My government – the British Government – wasn’t involved in the Vietnam War, you ignoramus!”

    You know when you make statements like that, you really aught to check your facts first.

    The SAS were sent into Vietnam for “training purposes” early into the conflict. Basically they used the place as live fire practice.

    You have a source for this fantasy?

    A dream you had some night after too much booze?

  89. Actually, that’s an ‘open secret’. It’s not ludicrous at all, Neil Barker.

    This is just one reference, but there are others. ‘Lobster’ magazine did a feature on it awhile back – you’ll probbaly laugh at that, but then you would, wouldn’t you?

    http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Vietnam/rum.htm

  90. Do you think the UK would ever give up the opportunity to kill some little yellow people?

    No way!

    Just you try and stop them.

    Shooting big game has become very hard for sandhurst educated toffs due to animal rights organisations, so the next best thing is brown game as in Afghanistan and Iraq. Or in the case of the UK’s elite forces in Vietnam, Yellow game.

    Even in the absence of war toffs under Thatcher went off to Africa to hunt some black game, that is the best fun they can have because it is very unbritish now to shoot elephants and Rhinos there, due to the British love of Animals.

  91. Of course, it’s officially denied, but then, so are lots of things. the SAS and other state entities do lots of things, undercover, one woudn’t want to write home about. That’s partly their role. David Sterling, from Stirling, what a man.

  92. Speaking of animal rights not covering people of the lesser races.

    A Bunch of Palestinians decorated a donkey and made it walk in view of a bunch of Israeli soldiers to upset them.

    A reporter asked the soldiers why they don’t just shoot the donkey.

    The Soldiers responded doing so would get them in to trouble with Israeli animal rights organisations, but shooting Palestinians on there other hand results in no trouble.

  93. I’m sure many of us have met ex-SAS personnel who have ‘done stuff’ in Africa (and elsewhere) you wouldn’t believe (as the expression goes), both as state employees and later, as private mercenaries acting on behalf of the UK state or other associated imperialist interests.

    Just read Craig’s ‘Catholic Orangemen’ book to gain an insight into some of these practices. Tip of the iceberg, of course.

    Here you go. Thomas the Tank Engine, eh! Check esp. the section on ‘Mercenary Work’, which “requires expansion”. Yes, indeed.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Stirling

  94. Actually, this type of role has been played often by a number of key upper class and upper middle class Scots from the central (by which I mean Stirlingshire, Perthshire, etc.) and eastern parts of the country, often through generations of the same families, for at least 300 years.

    It’s part of the much-discussed Scottish ‘anti-syzygy’ in relation to their relationship with the British Empire. Many of the colonial ‘Residents’ in far-flung parts of Empire were Scots, as were lots of officers and spies. Interesting travel writers, some of them.

    It goes on today, as well. Craig, you must know much more about this area than I.

    They’re often very interesting and highly educated people.

    But beware.

    One of them once said to me, “I and some friends did some work for the government, awhile back, and now I’m very concerned because recently some of my friends’ cars have been going off the road”.

  95. Arsalan, I told you that donkeys were very powerful beings and dogged purveyors of truth.

    http://www.josephsbox.co.uk/Logos/The%20Tale%20of%20the%20Servant.pdf

  96. More truthful and powerful than Zionists at least!

  97. Michael Petek

    Oh I forgot to mention, your Nonie Darwish, is one of the many fake ex-Muslims.

    Just in case you guys don’t know what a fake ex-Muslim is, it is a person who fakes converting from Islam to Christianity as a means to milk as much money as they can from idiots like Michael Petek.

    Muslims can spot these fakes from a mile away, but evangelical idiots like Michael Petek fall for their copycat stories, buy their books and hire them as speakers.

    Michael Petek if you ever meet her, please teach her how to pronounce the world Muslims correctly.

  98. When enough people know that Mossad/Israel–not Muslims–did 9/11 along with traitors/gentiles within the U.S., the justice needed for 9/11 will come.

    The real truth about 9/11 will save the world from these members of the Synagogue of Satan.

    ReDiscover911.com

  99. “The real truth about 9/11 will save the world from these members of the Synagogue of Satan.”

    Another loon suffering from Judenhass.

  100. Michael Petek

    Hay, I want to talk to you about why your Nonie Darwish, your source of knowledge on all things Islamic is not able to pronounce the word Muslim correctly.

    I would have thought someone who claims their native language was Arabic and they used to be Muslim would at least be able to pronounce the word Muslim.

    Or should my question to you be, why doesn’t American evangelical organisations at least teach the actors they hire to be fake ex Muslims, some basics of Islam such as how to pronounce the word Muslim before they put them in front of cameras to fool idiots like you?

    Is it because you guys are so ignorant and stupid they know you wouldn’t notice

    these silly mistakes?

    So much so that they gave Ergun Caner a evangelical university to run and a TV show, to teach the ignorant morons like yourselves how to be more ignorant and more moronic?

  101. Has Michael Petek gone away?

    Is he looking for a Fake Ex Morzleem who is more convincing?

    Or just one that can pronounce Muslim correctly?

    Hay why don’t you guys just grab hold of a Arab Christian and ask them to pretend they were once Muslim instead of the Pathetic attempts such as Nonie Darwish and Ergun Caner.

    At least that way the person you use would be able to at least pronounce the word Muslim correctly.

    Oh I forgot, you can’t do that, because Arab Christians, like all other mainstream sects of Christianity regard you so called christian Zionists to be a bunch of heretical nutters and trouble makers.

    What ever difference mainstream Christians, Jews and Muslims have with each other, we are all united in in thinking you guys are just a bunch of lying heretical nut Job hate mongers.

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