Il Faut Cultiver Notre Jardin

by craig on July 13, 2010 7:17 am in Ghana

116.jpg

Outgrower produced pineapples ready for juicing

117.jpg

Pineapple crowns are replanted. After castration each plant will produce five or six viable suckers which are given to smallholders as initial seed

118.jpg

The factory farm will produce its first commercial pineapple crop in March 2011

126.jpg

A small sample of organic peppers from one outgrower being assessed for quality. It is vital that local farmers do not become over-dependent on a single cash crop.

In my first overseas job I had the agriculrture brief at the British High Commission in Lagos for four years. Being me, I threw myself into it and the enthusiasm has never left me. The passages in The Catholic Orangemen of Togo on African agriculture are among my most passionately felt writings.

I remain immersed in the policy questions of the impact of colonialism on land ownership patterns, and the destruction of African agriculture by first world agricultural protectionism and dumping. But there is still no work that makes me happier than practical involvement with African farming communities. My main work in Ghana is in the energy sector, but I have been helping on a voluntary basis with a number of agricultural projects. This one is led by my old friend Felix Semavor.

How do I help? Well, I help to access development funding – in this case, the US government is helping with a feeder road, and the Dutch and Danish governments have helped provide agro-processing equipment. I spent Monday morning working with outgrowers to finalise their business development plans for startup loan applications. I have been advising on meeting the requirements for fairtrade certification, right down to details like methods of latrine construction.

I have also been able to help a little in dealing with potential UK and European customers.

This particular project involves production of flash frozen coconut, pineapple and mango pieces and of juices – primarily mango and pineapple, but we are also looking at pineapple and papaya and other mixes.

The project is primarily aimed at the export market, and I believe will be very succesful. The factory will ultimately support some 10,000 outgrowers. Once an outgrower cooperative has a total of 100 hectares, the economics comfortably support a communal tractor and pickup.

All is not entirely straightforward. There has been a widespread failure of the mango crop this year. probably because of exceptionally heavy early rains during the flowering period. Growers are establishing large pineapple fields. These have to be sloped, as retained water can quickly lead to Phytophthora infestation – something we have largely eliminated. But the result is of course the danger of soil erosion in the rainy season. There is no sign of a real problem yet, but these are early days and we are looking at bunds and intercropping.

I have tried very hard to affect my country’s foreign policy, both from the inside and the outside of the political establishment, to improve respect for human rights. I have achieved a small amount and been personally hurt by the attempt. I will still keep trying. But nothing is better for the soul than working to help people in poverty improve their lives, and to produce crops from the earth. Voltaire was right. Il faut cultiver notre jardin.

I do hope that you will buy and read The Catholic Orangemen of Togo, which I hope is a profound text on the condition of Africa disguised as a series of anecdotal romps. That was what I was trying to do, anyway.

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2009/01/buy_the_catholi.html

Apart from which, I am moving house on Thursday and am somewhat strapped for cash. If you too are strapped for cash, there is an option to read it free on line. If you have already read it, buy a copy for someone else as a present. If you think its rubbish, buy a copy for someone you don’t like as a present!

170 Comments

  1. JimmyGiro

    13 Jul, 2010 - 8:46 am

    Upon applying for a vacancy at the Equal Opportunities Quango:

    We notice on your C.V., Mr Giro, that in your last position you castrated pineapples?… well you’re just the person we are looking for.
    :) )

  2. Stephen Jones

    13 Jul, 2010 - 9:01 am

    Absolutely correct on not relying on one crop. Indian farmers found chili peppers a gold mine and production shot up. The result was prices collapsed.

    A single crop can be hit by inclement weather or bugs. The papaya crop in Lanka was decimated last year by bugs.

    Also tell the outsourcers not to use all the land for cash crops. It may be more economic to sell a cash crop and produce food, but it is much less secure.

    In Lanka I’ve seen pineapples used as intercropping on coconut estates. Looking at your photos what strikes me as strange is the lack of trees. Jared Diamond has described the three tiered level of agriculture that has fed Papua New Guinea for 50,000 years, and the same pattern was followed in Lanka. You have a high tree like Jak or Coconut, and then quick growing medium ‘trees’ such as banana or papaya or terraced tomato or chili, and then pulses or yams at ground level.

    Problem is nothing can be automated, but it does protect the integrity of the soil, and provide food security.

  3. craig

    13 Jul, 2010 - 9:07 am

    stephen

    If you look closely you will see a break with newly planted mango saplings after every four pineapple rows.

  4. Sam

    13 Jul, 2010 - 9:26 am

    Inspiring stuff Craig. I remember watching a great documentary on Farmer Field Schools and Integrated Pest Management in Indonesia. What started as a way of reducing growers’ reliance on pesticides, seemed to become became a highly successful and self sustaining movement to educate and empower growers.

  5. Dick the Prick

    13 Jul, 2010 - 10:28 am

    Brilliant Craig, brilliant. Good luck with the house move too. I found your book both gripping and remarkably absorbant. Nah, seriously, as Sam said, inspiring stuff.

    Cheers

  6. Phil

    13 Jul, 2010 - 10:42 am

    great photos craig, while i enjoy reading most of your blog, these stories, i find are far more interesting. i really like hearign about the nitty gritty of developing business/industry in a developing country. And i agree with you that we could do far more to help these chaps by reformign our ridiculous tariff system.

    Anyways more photos from these sorts of things would be great.

    Also what has happened abotu the non-exsistedent power plant that was being built in ghana

  7. Anonymous

    13 Jul, 2010 - 10:49 am

    the humble bumble is my insect of the millenium, as for a plant craig that is top of the list check of the humble

    hemp, natures allround unsung hero. I think one of the founding farmers of the USA used to be a hemp farmer.

    So from Hemp, ropes, clothes, oils, creams, paper etc. etc.

    It needs low maintenance, virtually zero pests as they dont like hemp and somewhere there is evidence that 1 acre of hemp produces 4 time the amount of paper than the equivalent area planted with trees…

    introduce hemp…it gonna be big. And im sure there was some report that stated if Ireland planeted hemp in 1% of its land it would need any external oil.

    HEMP my plant for the mellenium

  8. Iain Orr

    13 Jul, 2010 - 10:51 am

    A really enjoyable post about a first posting, with photos that make me want to think of novel ways to use the two-for-one pineapples Sue and I bought on Sunday in Sainsbury’s. Apart from compost, is there anything else to do with the crown and the outside skin?

    One use is to explore Fibonacci numbers in nature. If you google a phrase from the following extract, there’s more material:

    “In pineapples too, one can trace out 3, 5, 8, 13 or even 21 spirals according to their size, consecutive sets of spirals running opposite to each other. It is also true that spirals representing smaller numbers veer less steeply, but those that represent higher and higher F. numbers move steeper and steeper. This implies that no two oppositely moving sets of spirals will have the same steepness. But look at the giant pineapple dome (Fig. 2) constructed at the Sunshine Plantation at Nambour, Queensland. The marked spirals running opposite to each other move upward with the same steepness which is unrealistic. When I pointed out the difference between the inaccurate pattern on the giant dome and that on real pineapple (Fig. 3) to some workers at the Sunshine Plantation, they suggested me to write to their manager, Mr. Tony Jakeman as he was not on duty that day. When I wrote to Jakeman offering my assistance to design a realistic and scientifically accurate dome for the proposed new giant pineapple, he sent me on 11 February 1987 the following reply. “The article on the Pineapple in the Fibonacci Quarterly was fascinating, and I much appreciate your offer of assistance in redesigning the shape for the new one. Regretably the contract for the construction of the new skin for our “Big Pineapple” was let last November and the costs involved in changing the design now would be prohibitive. However, if at any time in the future we should require another Pineapple to be designed I would most certainly contact you to discuss the matter. ” Mr. Jakeman could as well have a deeper look at the pine cone to design an efficient Fibonacci dome. ”

    As well as Voltaire, there’s this:

    “And, he gave it for his Opinion; that whoever could make two Ears of Corn, or two Blades of Grass to grow upon a Spot of Ground where only one grew before; would deserve better of Mankind, and do more essential Service to his Country, than the whole Race of Politicians put together.”

    Jonathan Swift (1667-1745) Gulliver’s Travels

  9. Suhayl Saadi

    13 Jul, 2010 - 11:54 am

    At first, the top photo looked to me like a picture of an urban scene from a hot country, with heat haze, high-rises, a central garden, etc. Then I saw the pineapples and the whole scene immediately scaled-down in size! Odd, the tricks one’s eye can play! Good luck with everything.

  10. Richard Robinson

    13 Jul, 2010 - 12:10 pm

    Suhayl – Yes ! I was going to say that, it was my first impression, too.

    Splendid photos, anyway, and it looks like a fine project. I do hope the weather, and all other possible disasters, are kind to it.

  11. Clark

    13 Jul, 2010 - 12:51 pm

    Craig,

    thank you for this photo-journal. There have been long periods of silence during your previous visits to Ghana; it’s nice to see and read of some of what you do there.

    Yes, cultivation is good for the soul, it accesses something unique to modern humanity. Stephen Jones mentioned Jared Diamond, whose book ‘Guns, Germs and Steel’ I found facinating.

    Iain Orr,

    did you ever see a stand-up comedian who did a totally manic piece based upon Fibonacci sequences? I don’t remember his name, and I really want to hear it again.

  12. somebody

    13 Jul, 2010 - 12:58 pm

    Caroline Wyatt (again) on the deaths that are really important – medialens

    BBC identifies the deaths that matter

    Posted by cshaw on July 13, 2010, 12:26 pm

    Re the deaths today of 3 UK soldiers

    ‘The incident will re-awaken memories of last November, when an Afghan policeman shot dead five British soldiers in their compound, and seriously wounded six others, our correspondent added.

    She also said this latest tragedy will again intensify debate over the human costs of the mission in Afghanistan – and over whether the West’s exit strategy, which relies on training the Afghan army and police, ‘can hope to succeed’.

    No tragedy or worries about human costs when it is poor brown people who die, just concerns over legitimacy.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/10610068.stm

  13. Richard Robinson

    13 Jul, 2010 - 1:15 pm

    (irrelevant) re: seeing the crates in the top photo as skyscrapers; why pick on that, when after all the pineapples are visible too, and could have made it all clear right from the start ? Maybe it’s something about the blog format, that I expected to start at the top and work downwards ? Ah well, never mind.

  14. glenn

    13 Jul, 2010 - 1:21 pm

    Suhayl / Richard – that’s exactly what I saw too! I wondered what boxes of pineapples were doing on the top of a very tall building surrounded by sky-scrapers.

    Clark: Don’t know about the stand-up on Fibonacci, but here’s some rap about it if that’ll help: http://macidol.com/song/1470

  15. Michael James Reid

    13 Jul, 2010 - 2:01 pm

    Likewise, I finished your book a few weeks ago and I do want to say that it was both fascinating and informative. The people at Wikileaks should have a read of it, as well. I am sorry that you had to put up with so many difficulties in the UK. But in the end your persistence won and “rendition” was well publicized throughout the world.

    Having read your book I am thinking of going to Uzbekistan on holiday late September. Would you advise me of the suitability/security for me and my son, both of us being amateur but keen photographers. There is a private tour organised by a small company in New Zealand, but they use local guides and local drivers and I am a little anxious, but would see it as a very rich and adventurous experience. There are planes out of Bangkok, which is where I live.

    Regarding your book, I did write an email to an address which I saw on your blog. However, in using this address my email may never have reached you. In many respects I do wish you could regain your ascendancy in the Foreign Service. Best regards, Michael

  16. Richard Robinson

    13 Jul, 2010 - 2:17 pm

    “In many respects I do wish you could regain your ascendancy in the Foreign Service”

    That reminds me of my first impression on reading MiS – the country would be better served by more ambassadors going around helping people and kicking relevant arse, not fewer.

    re travel in Uzbekistan, I know nothing; but, if the company you’re going with is worth anything, I’d have thought it would clearly be in their interest to be on top of such questions ?

  17. Chin

    13 Jul, 2010 - 2:18 pm

    I have to agree with Phil that these make great reading, partly because the nature of the posting does not lend itself easily to trolls (although I expect this will be like a red rag to them now), partly because it does one’s soul good to read of something positive happening.

    I hope you all follow Craig’s advice and buy and read The Catholic Orangemen of Togo, although I did it the other way around, reading the free .pdf first and ending up buying a copy.

  18. Chin

    13 Jul, 2010 - 2:29 pm

    I have met a couple of ambassadors in my time and not one of them could hold a candle to Craig.

    In regards to Michael’s comment about his regaining his ascendancy in the Foreign Service, why do I keep thinking of camels, camping, prepositions and micturition?

  19. pdb

    13 Jul, 2010 - 2:45 pm

    I haven’t jumped into this blog before and only been a keen reader of it but have just noticed Michael James Reid’s question about travel in Uzbekistan. I am booked to visit the country in September and wondered what advice Craig might be able to offer. Does he know if there is any rise in internal ethnic conflict etc? I will be with a group from a reputable walking holiday company visiting the usual tourist sites. I have to pay the balance by the end of next week!

  20. angrysoba

    13 Jul, 2010 - 3:10 pm

    “did you ever see a stand-up comedian who did a totally manic piece based upon Fibonacci sequences? I don’t remember his name, and I really want to hear it again.”

    Sounds a bit like Dave Gorman. I could be wrong though.

  21. Clark

    13 Jul, 2010 - 3:57 pm

    Glenn,

    Angrysoba,

    thanks, I’ll check them out later.

  22. somebody

    13 Jul, 2010 - 4:06 pm

    The Guardian publishes data on civilian deaths in Afghanistan from 2006 – Oct 2009.

    The total is 6584.

    The tables are on

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2009/nov/19/afghanistan-civilian-casualties-statistics-data

  23. technicolour

    13 Jul, 2010 - 4:09 pm

    Looking good, Mr Murray :)

  24. Abe Rene

    13 Jul, 2010 - 5:07 pm

    Nice pics. You are doing things that probably deserve a gong except that you might turn it down..

  25. Nomad

    13 Jul, 2010 - 6:01 pm

    pdb,

    apart from the regime in power in Uzbekistan, it is a wonderful country. And you have made a good choice to go to Uzbekistan in September which is the best time in terms of fruits and vegetables being full in local markets. However, this is the time when school children are forced to leave classes to pick cotton in fields. Re: ethnic conflicts, i would point to some tensions btwn tajiks and uzbeks in Samarkand and Bukhara, mainly, tajiks being a bit agressive and refusing to speak Uzbek language in these cities. In the east, mainly in Andijan, many young uzbeks are angry at recent killings of uzbeks in neighbouring Kyrgyzstan and it may turn into big clashes at any moment.

  26. Mat

    13 Jul, 2010 - 9:36 pm

    Talk about optical illusions…

    It took me a little while to realise that what I had taken for a large, white lamp in the photos was in fact Craig! Voltaire might have said: “Il faut achat un autre chemise” :D

    But seriously, great work and all the best with the project – I look forward to seeing the farm’s produce on supermarket shelves.

  27. somebody

    13 Jul, 2010 - 10:39 pm

    Libyan aid boat Amalthea still making for Gaza. What will Israel dare to do next?

    Israel navy begins efforts to stop Libyan aid ship

    Page last updated at 20:25 GMT, Tuesday, 13 July 2010 21:25 UK

    The Amalthea left a Greek port on Saturday

    The Israeli military says it has begun efforts to try to stop a Libyan aid ship from reaching Gaza.

    The navy has made contact with the vessel, but its commandos have not boarded the ship, a spokeswoman said.

    The Amalthea is expected to reach Gaza’s territorial waters on Wednesday, Palestinian and Israeli reports said.

    The Moldovan-flagged ship, chartered by a charity run by the son of Libyan leader Col Muammar Gaddafi, left a Greek port on Saturday.

    The executive director of the Gaddafi International Charity and Development Foundation, told Reuters news agency by telephone from Tripoli that the ship was “still heading to Gaza and there has been no decision to change course”.

    He added: “The ship has received an ultimatum from the Israelis that we have to leave the area by tonight. We are not going to do that.”

    It is the latest attempt to break the naval blockade on Gaza, and comes six weeks after a deadly Israeli operation which left nine Turkish activists dead.

    On Monday, the Israeli military presented the results of its inquiry into the raid.

    It found that mistakes were made at a relatively senior level, but concluded that the use of live fire was justified.

    Midnight ultimatum

    An Israeli military spokeswoman confirmed that a “process of identification and communication” had begun with the Libyan vessel, some 100 miles (160 km) from the Gaza coast.

    “The Israeli navy has launched preparations and activity to stop the Libyan ship,” the spokeswoman said.

    Israel has carried out intense diplomatic activity to try to persuade the crew to divert the aid vessel to El-Arish.

    Israel has lobbied the UN, as well as the Greek and Moldovan governments, to take action, calling the motives of the activists “questionable and provocative”.

    The Amalthea, renamed Hope for the mission, is loaded with about 2,000 tonnes of food, cooking oil, medicines and pre-fabricated houses, the organisers have said.

    The 92m (302ft) vessel has been chartered by the Gaddafi International Charity and Development Foundation. Its chairman is Saif al-Islam Gaddafi.

  28. ingo

    14 Jul, 2010 - 9:31 am

    Thanks for that inside into pineapple/mango farming.

    I did notice the mango saplings amidst the pineapples.

    Companion planting has shown the most positive results around the world.

    It clearly confuses pests which have problems distinguishing their favourite meal with another.

    Trials in China with 5 different sorts of rice grown in the same field have shown that their ned for pesticides goes down by an incredible 65%.

    Some plants are beneficial to each other with regards to rootgrowth and nutrient exchange and it is a practise that should be encouraged everywhere.

    What little disbenefit, due to having five crops in a field, can be minimised by planting them in such a way, that the mechanics of hoeing and weeding as well as the harvest can be arranged for each and every crop.

    Israel is homing in on its next bit of piracy at the high seas. It is to be seen whether they dare and breach international laws of the sea again, or flagrate the Territorial waters of Egypt, never mind Gaza.

  29. somebody

    14 Jul, 2010 - 10:38 am

    The latest is that the boat has engine trouble?? just like two from the Freedom Flotilla. Strange that. Also that it is surrounded by eight Israeli warships. (Al Jazeera website)

    This on breaking news. The previous links suggest that the files he has admitting leaking were concerned with ‘intelligence gathering techniques’. Is that a euphemism for how to torture or something more benign?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10629017

  30. Linda

    14 Jul, 2010 - 5:03 pm

    This is all decidedly fascinating, but I really just have to comment because it warms the cockles of my heart when someone quotes the last lines of Candide. Greatest book and ending I’ve ever read. Thank you! (For all you do!) I can totally picture you and Voltaire hanging out and getting along famously.

  31. Larry from St. Louis

    14 Jul, 2010 - 6:02 pm

    Alfred: “The Holocaust was either a crime against humanity without compare in the history of the world and for which all the World is in part to blame — a view with many political consequences, or it was merely one of a many twentieth century state-sponsored mass murders in which Jews have been involved not only as victims but also as perpetrators.”

    Fuck you, Alfred. The Jews were not perpetrators in the Holocaust.

  32. Abe Rene

    14 Jul, 2010 - 6:20 pm

    I might be interested in buying an updated paperback edition of Catholic Orangemen, particularly if these or similar pics are included (“The Man from Del Monte is not sure” is a must).

  33. Stephen Jones

    14 Jul, 2010 - 7:20 pm

    Comment in a Guardian thread on ambassadors.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jul/14/ambassadors-job-diplomat-training?plckFindCommentKey=CommentKey:b6b7be19-d258-47a7-b9f1-5b32dcf0a321

    The article is by Oliver Miles but the comment is by Charles Crawford.

    “Part of Craig Murray’s problem in Uzbekistan was that the Embassy was seriously underpowered, leaving too great a policy and operational burden on the Ambassador personally. Plus his communications equipment was not good (cost/security reasons) which meant that he found it difficult to have a sensible dialogue with London about sensitive policy issues.”

  34. Stephen Jones

    14 Jul, 2010 - 7:22 pm

  35. TW

    14 Jul, 2010 - 7:32 pm

    ‘Reprieve: Blair overruled FCO demands for access to rendered prisoners. “Tony Blair expressly ordered Jack Straw to violate the law”‘

    http://tinyurl.com/3yby5kp

  36. tabitha

    14 Jul, 2010 - 7:47 pm

    Mais, oui, c’est sur

  37. Courtenay Barnett

    15 Jul, 2010 - 12:11 am

    I have little confidence in what the EU is doing. Same game…different package.

    Anyway, here is why in a genuine, humane and progressive way we need to think globally.

    Here is the evidence. They produce the shit – package and export the shit – and – guess what – we eat the shit… just watch….http://www.vimeo.com/11817894

  38. Courtenay Barnett

    15 Jul, 2010 - 1:55 am

    Hey all – here is something of interest if you want to understand how the system really works..http://markcurtis.wordpress.com/

  39. Chin

    15 Jul, 2010 - 2:58 am

    You’ve probably seen this already, but just thought it needed highlighting…

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/interactive/2010/jul/14/toture-files-key-passages

  40. somebody

    15 Jul, 2010 - 8:23 am

    Hope that the move goes well today Craig and to wish you, Nadira and Cameron happiness in your new home.

  41. Clark

    15 Jul, 2010 - 9:45 am

    Best wishes for moving house today.

  42. anno

    15 Jul, 2010 - 3:59 pm

    The true colonial who flourishes in the ruthless slaughter stage of his career never forgets, Winston Churchill-like, to proceed to the leisured gardening stage. But I think this ‘il faut cultiver’ is the statement of one who tried to do good and was frustrated in his efforts. Cultivation is the refuge of the both the megalomaniacs like Blair as well as the vexed and persecuted.

    In the latter case they are recovering from the injustices done to them by others, while in the former, from the injustices they have done to their own cause and themselves. Rehearsing to themselves as they prune their roses that they had no choice in their violent invasions but to prune the power of those Muslim societies, which were after all so much more beautiful than themselves.

  43. Mark Golding - Children of Iraq

    15 Jul, 2010 - 7:20 pm

    Best wishes to Craig & Nadira in their new home.

    ‘Every house where love abides

    And friendship is a guest,

    Is surely home, and home sweet home

    For there the heart can rest.’

    Henry Van Dyke

    Thank-you for the link Chin – interesting

  44. Larry from St. Louis

    15 Jul, 2010 - 10:18 pm

    This is one of the typical American 911 truthtards, who produce the content that you people believe without skepticism:

    http://911blogger.com/news/2010-07-14/stickers-plane-saga-delta-1165

  45. Mark Golding - Children of Iraq

    15 Jul, 2010 - 11:07 pm

  46. anno

    16 Jul, 2010 - 5:15 am

    Mark

    You never explained what Children of Iraq actually does. You deliver publications under the umbrella of an Iraqi medical programme. Is this to proselytise against Islam? The soft side of the war on terra? Or do you give aid as well? Enlighten please, if you have the time.

  47. ingo

    16 Jul, 2010 - 11:26 am

    Good luck with moving homes into a more spacious and relaxing abode.

    I’m screwed to the floor at present, my gout is killing me and I can do as I want. Some ex pats swear by Rishi mushroom, anybody heard of it?

  48. libhomo

    16 Jul, 2010 - 11:38 am

    “Castration” of pineapples sounds like a bit of extreme phrasing. Is it standard?

  49. Iain Orr

    16 Jul, 2010 - 12:37 pm

    Craig

    Adding to good wishes to the family for your move [I'd have done so sooner but tied up communicating with a monolingual Hungarian couple who are my new tenants. I don't speak Hungarian: so, we are all becoming dab hands at improvised sign language and expressive grunts], can I add further reflections on pineapples?

    In many parts of London (and no doubt other places in the UK} pineapples feature on top of either side of garden walls – with or without a swinging gate – leading to the front door. I have always understood this to be a symbol of prosperity and fecundity. Appropriate for a pineapple farmer and his flourishing family.

    Ananas also has a touch of the exotic, not being a genus native to these islands ever since the Flandrian Transgression islanded them from the Eurasian landmass. Pineapples are also an internal decorative feature (and on some crockery and cutlery).

    No doubt googling will provide more on the pineapple’s iconography. Indeed, here’s Kew:

    “…its Latin name Ananas came from the word ‘nana’ which was the local people’s name for the plant. People in the Caribbean area at that time valued the fruit highly, placing it outside their homes to welcome visitors. Later, Europeans adopted this habit with the pineapple motif used on gateposts and in carvings.”

    Will your new home have decorative pineapples? I also suggest as an appropriate dish to celebrate your move pork loin chops with a sauce made from onions and garlic, dry white wine, chicken stock and crushed pineapple flesh and juice. It’s delicious – I’ll email you the recipe I used. [It calls for "kosher salt", which seems strange for a pork recipe. As I made it, this was a fully kosher non-kosher dish i.e. no ingredient used was in accordance with kosher/ halal rules of food preparation.]

  50. Mark Golding - Children of Iraq

    16 Jul, 2010 - 12:51 pm

    Anno,

    ‘Is this to proselytise against Islam?’

    Why are you of the opinion I am trying to convert people’s beliefs?

    Strange?

  51. anno

    16 Jul, 2010 - 7:37 pm

    Mark

    Is what to proselytise against Islam?

    There have been many U.S. websites urging people to rescue Iraqi orphans from their hateful religion and the mess the US leaders made there.

    I appreciate that every effort to help people in a war-zone is overloaded with political camouflage just to get permission to be there at all. Your website doesn’t explain what you are doing there. Perhaps if it did, you wouldn’t get permission to go there, but others are there adding insult to the injury of invasion, by forcing their own culture onto the suffering people.

    As I perceive it, the war on terror has forced all the Muslims to bend over backwards to pretend that they are not Muslim, to avoid the prejudice generated by the war and its media propaganda. And all the non-Muslims have cranked up their political correctness to wincing point, that they love Muslims, but those naughty acts on 911 force them to act, much against their own wishes and consciences.

    I would have contributed to your charity if it had been clear what you were trying to achieve. But I realise that muddied waters in war-time are camouflage for both good and bad deeds.

    I’m not expecting an answer from you but you must agree that in the context of Craig’s post colonial enterprises in Africa, it’s fair to ask the question whether foreigners are there to help or like many of our countrymen in Africa, continue the plunder, with the same remorseless vigour as before.

  52. somebody

    16 Jul, 2010 - 7:52 pm

    Somebody who is proselytising against Islam is this creep from Holland.

    Anti-Islamic crusader launches recruitment drive in UK

    By Allan Hall

    16th July 2010

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1295047/Dutch-politician-says-UK-freedom-alliance-countries-Islam.html#ixzz0tqS49TCA

    I have not read the comments. This one made earlier by a Medialens contributor had not appeared.

    ++++++++++

    To dignify this man as a “crusader” in your headline reminded me of other great Daily Mail headlines:

    “Youth Triumphant” in support of Adolf Hitler in 1933

    “Hurrah for the Blackshirts” in support of Oswald Mosely in January 1934

    Racism and fascism are twin evils.

    +++++++++

    How is the emptying of all those boxes going Craig?

  53. Rim Banna

    17 Jul, 2010 - 6:14 am

  54. Zircon

    17 Jul, 2010 - 6:36 am

    The crimes Larry from St Louis and his friends try to hide:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHy1xpznE48&feature=related

  55. anno

    17 Jul, 2010 - 11:17 am

    Mark Curtis has a British Establishment fantasy that the UK covertly supports terrorists in order to further its national interests. a fantasy that self-aggrandises the political class, that they still sit down and discuss things with their enemies in the morning before engaging with their enemies in battle after lunch.

    The reality is that the British establishment is a vast ignorant iceberg elite, with an even vaster ignorant British public sitting unseen beneath the water. They regard their culture and usurious economics as being vastly superior to anything anybody else has yet come up with, and yes, they do send a lot of people over to win the battle of the hearts and minds of their enemies. Craig Murray is one and Mark Golding is another.

    To say that the British Establishment secretly supports terrorists is like saying that a football team mascot helps them win the world cup. Robinson Crusoe planted his flag and cultivated the soil of his remote destination. Can’t anyone see the irony in the creation of the Crusoe myth, that colonisers are satisfied with the illusion of converting the alien into the familiar, Ghana jungle into Lincolnshire sugar beet.

    The world of Teaching English as Foreign Language, TEFL is a sprawling octopus of de-Islamification. The stick and carrot of the invitation to Turkey to join Europe, satisfies the political class like Paddy Ashdown, that politics works.

    In reality, nothing has cemented the Muslim people of the world together than the antrics of Bush and Blair. The West is like a sand cliff being slowly washed into the sea. The economics of usury, like farmland being returned to the sea, a barren, salty wasteland. The Protestant dream is being taken back by the relentless greed of usurious bankers. Planned downsizing, part of the economic cycle, drawl the British ruling class.

  56. Dean Kuntz

    17 Jul, 2010 - 12:20 pm

    Pretentious twats!

  57. ingo

    17 Jul, 2010 - 1:31 pm

    Still we have vastly superior Ananas experience coming in here, Dean Kuntz, with tz, has managed to say it all in two words.

    ‘Pretentious twats!’

    Whethert his was directed towards us or the simple pineapple growing operation is not quiet clear.

  58. Mark Golding - Children of Iraq

    17 Jul, 2010 - 1:47 pm

    Anno,

    I completely understand your argument that contains a strong element of truth. With respect you should know my position by now from an understanding of the thrust of the majority of my comments here.

    As I told Tony some time ago, I cannot accept any contributions because despite 6 yrs past we are still fighting for charitable status and right now the Charity Commission has again requested evidence of our application made in 1995 which they responded to by letter.

    Finally, rest assured your questions were put to me at an HTB conference in London I attended; the warm welcome and love I received there was proof the community door was wide open for me.

  59. Richard Robinson

    17 Jul, 2010 - 2:16 pm

    “Robinson Crusoe”

    I saw a copy of that in the library a while back, and suddenly realised I’d never actually read it, I only thought I knew what it was because there’ve always been people telling me (as an illustration of the mindset, it’s interesting, the importance of his relationship with God and so on. As a novel, it can get tedious).

    What struck me most was the importance of his gun. He says it very clearly, that without the ability to kill wild animals at a distance, he’d have starved long before he could develop other food sources, he’d have had no chance.

  60. mike cobley

    17 Jul, 2010 - 2:42 pm

    Quoth anno:

    “They regard their culture and usurious economics as being vastly superior to anything anybody else has yet come up with, and yes, they do send a lot of people over to win the battle of the hearts and minds of their enemies. Craig Murray is one and Mark Golding is another.”

    What gargantuan bollocks. You notions of the homogeneity (look it up) of this nation, or even its elite, is infantile. Come back when you’ve picked up a shred or two of reason.

  61. mike cobley

    17 Jul, 2010 - 2:43 pm

    Sigh – should read ‘Your notion’. The perils of speed-ranting.

  62. Richard Robinson

    17 Jul, 2010 - 3:01 pm

    “The perils of speed-ranting”

    Oh, fun ! The Ad-Hominem Chicane, the “You obviously haven’t read carefully enough” Hairpin, the “You can’t prove I meant that” Slalom, full down on the accelerator for the Easy-cliches Straight …

  63. Larry from St. Louis

    17 Jul, 2010 - 3:10 pm

    Anno: “Blah blah blah conspiracy against Muslims blah blah blah usurious banks blah blah blah the Joooos”

    Mark Golding: “I completely understand your argument that contains a strong element of truth.”

  64. Mark Golding - Children of Iraq

    17 Jul, 2010 - 3:36 pm

    “Badly losing the war in Afghanistan, Gen. David Petraeus has decided to promote a violent civil war in Afghan villages.

    That is the true intent of the new so-called Local Defense Initiatives that Petraeus forced down the throat of Afghanistan’s puppet president Hamid Karzai. The new plan is a variant of the Community Defense Initiative that Gen. Stanley McChrystal tried to impose on Afghanistan after Obama selected him to lead the expanded war effort in 2009.

    The Petraeus strategy calls for putting 10,000 job-hungry Afghan villagers on the Pentagon payroll. They will be given money and guns so that they can form militias and shoot and kill other members of their village who are asserted to be either pro-Taliban or opposed to the U.S./NATO occupation.

    The new strategy further underscores the criminal role of the Pentagon generals. Petraeus is consciously fomenting civil war and ethnic rivalry just as he did in Iraq. Gen. James Mattis, Petraeus’ new boss at Central Command, when speaking to a crowd in San Diego in 2005 about his experience in Afghanistan, said “it’s a hell of a lot of fun to shoot ‘em.”

    President Obama and his military team recognize that it is less damaging at home, where there is almost no support for this endless occupation, to foment civil war in Afghanistan and pay desperate Afghans to slaughter each other as a means of reducing U.S. casualties.

    U.K. taxpayers who are experiencing devastating cuts in County and local budgets, layoffs of public workers, soaring tuition costs in public colleges?”all because of budget shortfalls?”will see millions of their tax pounds go to fund the occupation of Afghanistan and pay the salaries of poor Afghans so that they can shoot other poor Afghans. This is a classic divide-and-conquer tactic used historically by all colonial powers to break up a united resistance by the people whose lands they occupy.” – ADC

    Echoes of Nixon and Kissinger’s murderous ‘Vietnamization’ plan that failed? – the Vietnamese were unwilling to live under foreign occupation and we witness with only minimal knowledge that ‘divide & conquer’ is being tried in Iraq and now in Iran – pitching Shia against Sunni is a classic corruption of Islam demonstrated before our very eyes in Saudi and Dubai where West meets East in an absurd mixing bowl of money and religion.

  65. Ingo

    17 Jul, 2010 - 3:50 pm

    I second you analysis Mark, it is a strategy that is counteracting their exit, providing the US with more semi legitamite reasoning to further outstay their welcome.

    Karzai is increasingly getting tetchy about his cabinet as well as about what is galvanising itself into a civil war outside the Kabul enclave.

    The US failed to realise that paying Iraqis does not translate into paying Afghans, they will have to live on with the Taliban in future, thanks to the west creating this beastly political strand of islam.

    Now petreaus believes that he can untie the family ties and inter tribal connections by paying some money and handing out guns?

    It will fail, the Taliban will get more arms, just as the Northern Alliance is armed to the teeth thanks to the EU, Pashtuns have a family code and bond that will not allow this to work, a waste of time and money, like you said.

    What it will create is more hate and more impetus to kill any westerner, not just the US soldiers, it will turn Afghanistan into a frenzy.

  66. Mark Golding - Children of Iraq

    17 Jul, 2010 - 5:25 pm

    Hours before the slaughter of nine unarmed Turkish activists delivering humanitarian aid to Gaza, seven Turkish naval personnel were murdered in Turkey’s Iskenderun seaport in Hatay province near the border with Syria, by the PKK.

    The PKK according to Professor Sedat Laciner has received some training from Israel. This seems reasonable considering Turkey’s support for Iran against Western sanctions.

    Israel has supported the PKK against Iran. We remember well that Israeli advisers also encouraged the Kurdish groups to cause trouble and killings against Baghdad to establish a separate Kurdish state in the Northern Iraq.

    What concerns me at the time was British Special Forces involvement in Northern Iraq together with the Israelis.

    According to Dr Nilgun Gulcan they legitimate their existence with help to the local Kurds yet everybody knows that they have a hidden agenda and secret relations with the armed groups in the region.

    Israelis have also been reported to be operating with Kurdish rebels in Iran along with US and British Special Forces, in what Tehran claims is a systematic campaign to destabilize the Islamic Republic.

    Recently, US lawmakers warned Turkey that unless it abandons its policy of befriending Iran and shunning Israel, it would pay a hefty price.

    “With regard to Congress of the United States, there will be a cost if Turkey stays on its current path of growing close to Iran and more antagonistic to Israel,” US Republican Congressman Mike Pence of Indiana told Turkey’s envoy to Washington last week.

    Pressure is now on Israel after the assassination of a Hamas leader, discussion by IAEA over Israel’s atomic arsenal, the attack on Gaza-bound aid convoys, and the international push for the lifting of the Gaza blockade and I am closely watching the actions of British government and deployment of British agents and Special Forces in these critical areas.

  67. Courtenay Barnett

    17 Jul, 2010 - 7:56 pm

    @Craig

    Re: Aid, trade and economic development

    The idea of “aid” for Africa from the European Union or any Western donor, is one which has in it the seeds of the underdevelopment of the continent.

    A simple example might suffice. Say, the cost of a tractor were to be measured in terms of the physical terms of trade, then we could use a fifty year spread to assess the change. Say in year one, it took “x” tons of pineapples to buy one tractor from the UK, then by year 50 we find that it takes “x plus 30″ tons to buy the same type of tractor. The countries with manufacturing and technological capabilities sell at prices that militate against the capacity of the non-industrialised to keep apace with prices, thus overtime despite producing more they actual less in monetary value. In a sentence, the terms of trade work to the disadvantage of the non-industrialised countries.

    Then we get to “Aid”, because the same countries that have the advantage of being industrialised come to the non-industrialised on the pretext that they are somehow going to assist with their development. The package given might be exposed by reference to Cuba.

    Cuba, as you know, is a small Caribbean Island, with about 10 million people. However let’s consider its foreign policies by reference to some examples:-

    1. It sent some 60 thousand troops into Southern Africa to fight the racists during the Apartheid era. At the same time Israel was selling nuclear technology to Apartheid South Africa. Also, leaders such as Margret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan were doing everything in their power to prolong the life of the then South African government. The Cuban intervention served along with the ANC to defeat the racist regime.

    2. The oppressive nature of Western involvement has its mirror image in the way trade relations are conducted. Cuba has sent its health workers, doctors, nurses and others around the globe to assist countries in need, and Haiti is the most recent instance, before and after the earthquake in that country. Contrast the announcement of billions in aid coming from the US. What happens as always is that a large monetary number of “Aid” assistance is announced. The pattern is then for the expenditure to be linked to a steady stream of consultants and the money is then channeled back into purchases from the donor country for purchase of their manufactured goods. By contrast, I have travelled and seen the Cubans proceed as follows. A school is needed. They send their workers, the recipient country provides the land, the workers build the school, and if technical is assistance is thereafter needed sufficient teachers are also provided for so long as is necessary. There is there no grand announcement of the billions that are being donated, but the results are quite immediate and direct. Cuban doctors and nurses are presently assisting with building a health service in Venezuela and Haiti for provision of health services to the poor. An instance of Western “Aid” is the “Caribbean Basin Initiative” which was an “Aid” package under the Regan Admisntratin that was announced as being a measures to reviatlise and grow Caribbean economies, and now some thirty years on the economic disadvantages are as persistent as ever. Likewise, there is this stark contrast with how the UK or EU goes about the “business” of providing “Aid” as compared to Cuba. It is not just me saying this, because those doing it actually admit:-

    “The principal beneficiary of America’s foreign assistance programs has always been the United States.”

    US Agency for International Development Source: “Direct Economic Benefits of U.S. Assistance Programs,” 1999

    So, it is not that there is not a known way of assisting poorer countries. It is just that a schema is in place that actually perpetuates the poverty and inflicts dependency on the recipient country.

    The pineapple project may not be as bad as I have just described, but I doubt I am incorrect about the matrix within which trade between the UK and Ghana operates.

    Over to you Craig.

  68. anno

    17 Jul, 2010 - 9:52 pm

    As in Africa, the Brits created the problem in Turkey by dividing Kurdistan. You have only to look at the relentlessness of the problems of Northern Ireland to understand the longevity of the damage caused by us in Eastern Turkey.

    It’s all very well the Blairs and Eurozone applying pressure but the former colonial powers created the problems purely in order to destroy the power of the Islamic Caliphate there. For this reason the agenda of the West will never be accepted as a model for reform. The West is going to have to come to terms with the fact that its violent past denies them legitimacy now.

    That is, in the light of the Blair Bush invasions, any legitimacy that the West might have clung onto, has now completely disappeared. In relation to Turkey, Israel is merely a maggot on the carcase of Western influence and power.

  69. Neil Barker

    18 Jul, 2010 - 12:12 pm

    I only ask, humbly, for a rich, privileged man to send a copy of his book to a poor man.

    Am I asking for something that goes against Craig’s liberalism? Does he think I’m some kind of socialist? I’m not. I only want to read the book, but I have no money. Are mangoes more important than me? If so, why? The fat Mango manager makes 3 of me. He’s not poor. Nor is Craig.

    I suspect they are hypocrites: everyone else but them should help the poor while they get fat off the taxpayer.

  70. ingo

    18 Jul, 2010 - 12:55 pm

    neil barking too loud. I’m not rich either, but there are far far worse off people than me in the world, all without education and without computers to complain about their poor status.

    Now would Craig be better to sponsor a school in some colonially pip squeeked part of Africa? or would it be more charitable to give you what you demand, playing on the rich and poor argument as advanced by your vary self?

    I for one would try and access your local library with your computer, expend some CO2 and ask them to purchase the book so you can read it, the english social formula for getting something for not very much.

    That said, I/m not quiet sure whether your educationary replenishment and upping of facts, is as important as the need to cut down on CO2 exhaustion.

    That said, I’d better cut this…….

  71. Courtenay Barnett

    18 Jul, 2010 - 6:05 pm

    “It will be recalled that in February this year on the first visit of a French president to Haiti, Nicolas Sarkozy acknowledged “the wounds of colonisation” and said he knows well “the story of our countries on the question of debt”. At that time, he announced the cancellation of all of Haiti’s US$77-million debt to France and promised to provide aid of US$400 million over the next two years.

    Official agencies have reported that France is one of several countries that have not followed through on their pledges.”

    Exactly as I said in my earlier post: for the complete article go to: http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/columns/Two-per-cent-to-Haiti-not-enough_7806194

  72. Iain Orr

    18 Jul, 2010 - 8:27 pm

    Ingo – a nice succinct post (on Neil’s wish for a free copy of “The Catholic Orangemen of Togo”).

    Neil – my copy of the book is not spare, but it might become so in the latter stages of my library slimming project. I’ve just been inspired by Orhan Pamuk’s essay “How I got rid of some of my books”.

    If you send me your address, I will send you one or two books (free) -title(s) still to be decided but decidedly not rubbish. If your reactions to them – posted on this website – show that we are on a wavelength, who knows what might develop?

  73. Trapezey

    18 Jul, 2010 - 9:06 pm

    Save your postage, dude. Different wavelengths, let me assure you. Barker’s got “previous” on this site. His persistent and distracting begging soon morphed into spiteful malice. He also announced his intention to subvert Craig’s copyright. The guy’s an agent provocateur.

    Mind you, if you can find out his address, that could be useful information …

  74. Stephen Jones

    18 Jul, 2010 - 9:07 pm

    —–”on Neil’s wish for a free copy of “The Catholic Orangemen of Togo”)”——

    That book is free. It’s “Murder in Samarkand’, which Craig does not publish, that Neil is asking for.

    Considering that he can download a pirate copy through Bit Torrent for free he has a cheek asking Craig to lose money by having to pay for the postage.

  75. glenn

    18 Jul, 2010 - 11:28 pm

    Barker – if you’d deposited 10p in a jar for every time you’d demanded a free copy of CM’s book, you’d have more than enough to buy it by now in hardback. Since you clearly can’t afford your own machine and ISP, you must be in a library by now. Explain why the library cannot loan you a copy, which would save us all the unedifying spectacle of your demanding free books from an author.

    Personally, I think you’re another miserable troll with nothing worthwhile to add to a decent blog, so you choose to detract from it instead. Shame on you. Actually, it’s quite funny to think that in Britain in the 21st century, a grown man would genuinely need to beg (on the Internet too!) for months, for the price of a paperback! It’s on Amazon for £1.54 used right now. Times must be hard indeed wherever you are if that’s too much of a reach!

  76. Neil Barker

    19 Jul, 2010 - 12:13 am

    Not in England. No library. No credit card. On a free connection in a shop.

    And you find this funny, Glenn?

    Shame on you and on Craig too. He sponged off the taxpayer for years.

    I like to remind Craig occasionally of his rich, privileged existence.

  77. Ben Newsam

    19 Jul, 2010 - 12:58 am

    I have to agree with Neil Barking, as I am in a similar position. What is really funny is the smug self-satisfied ignorance of so many of the posters here. It’s not a sin to be rich but noblesse oblige…..

  78. Courtenay Barnett

    19 Jul, 2010 - 2:00 am

    @ Ben,

    I don’t have a billion or even a million. I get up every morning and do work, and the work I do has quite significant impact on the lives of the persons I defend.

    Craig is a small potato – but he most times sows good seed ( shit – I believe I got that right – even if the vice-President of the US did not know the spelling). Murray is not a bad person, but I believe that despite his inherent goodness and courage, he may have bought into some of the Western bullshit.

    But, here is the good news – didn’t you hear that within a couple years with Western “Aid” Haiti is going to be developed and be just like Taiwan.

    Sure -just watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVVRoWxFB1s

  79. Courtenay Barnett

    19 Jul, 2010 - 2:01 am

    @Craig,

    My apology. Not a potato. No – a big pineapple.

    CB

  80. Richard Robinson

    19 Jul, 2010 - 2:19 am

    “Not in England. No library. No credit card”

    If you’re that desperately poor, I’m suprised you’d not have more urgent concerns than picking and choosing what books you fancy reading. Maybe there’s a good reason, but I can’t help noticing you’re not telling what it is.

    ["Full disclosure" :- I've been trying to keep my head down because it was not an acquaintance I wanted to renew, but "I like to remind Craig occasionally of his rich, privileged existence" is too irritating.

    I remember this Neil Barker, from something like 15 years ago. He had a very similar style in various newsgroups I was reading then - bizarrely irrelevant moral blackmail, then turns spiteful when it doesn't get him what he's looking for. I've avoided him since. Trouble maker. Sorry for himself, wants to take it out on other people.

    But that's nothing that can't be seen from his behaviour here, which is why I haven't felt it useful to say before.]

  81. Clark

    19 Jul, 2010 - 4:33 am

    Neil Barker wrote on a previous thread that he’d already been sent the book, and asked how the anonymous sender had got his e-mail address.

  82. somebody

    19 Jul, 2010 - 8:57 am

    Murder in Samarkand is referenced in this scathing attack on ‘Tonybler’, his criminal actions in Kosovo, his growing collection of medals and his book due out soon and already much reduced in price!

    http://www.uruknet.de/?p=m68054&hd=&size=1&l=e

    A Bright Shining Lie Pt 2

  83. somebody

    19 Jul, 2010 - 9:25 am

    On another matter to do with Blair.

    This in the Independent by Rentoul (Tonybler’s puppy of course) and Goldsmith his AG. Is this some sort of softening up or smoothing of the way for him (Blair) prior to the outcome of yet another enquiry, this time on UK complicity on torture?

    http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2010/07/18/lord-goldsmith-on-torture-the-full-transcript/

  84. Richard Robinson

    19 Jul, 2010 - 11:55 am

    “Are mangoes more important than me? If so, why?”

    Talk about asking for trouble …

    1) Mangoes feed people.

  85. Mark Golding - Children of Iraq

    19 Jul, 2010 - 1:18 pm

    Thanks for the link ‘somebody’ – I applaud your awareness.

    Right now, I have literally zero respect for Lord Goldsmith, a weak man who, despite a great knowledge of law, has allowed himself to be compromised by others against that great knowledge which elevated him to UK Attorney General – a responsible position of trust.

    Goldsmith said, “If I bear responsibility for anything then I bear responsibility for it, so I don’t put that aside.”

    I disagree – Put aside you do Peter Goldsmith QC – on torture – in the same way, the same modus operandi, the same weakness that lead Britain into an illegal war. A war that cost the lives of more than a million Iraqis and displaced another 4 million Iraqi families having fled from their homes.

    We, the citizens of Britain have had to bear the enormous consequences of your failure to stand firm on law. We are ashamed and we are angry.

    On February 11th 2003 our Attorney General stood in the White House and succumbed to pressure from America. A tenuity which led to the 13 page document sent in a minute to PM Blair on March 7th 2003. A piece of government paper that signed the death warrant for thousands of Iraqi babies, Iraqi toddlers, Iraqi children and innocent civilians, all consumed by fire until their little blackened bodies were unrecognisable.

    Some tell me in your defence Peter Goldsmith QC that there is a secret clause in the Trident submarine treaty that was signed by Mrs Thatcher in 1983. The secret clause states that the British Prime Minister is required to go to war if he/she gets the order from the President of the United States.

    If that is the case, then speak out at the torture inquiry – bear the responsibility, as you have proclaimed – or die in fear of the agony and pain you have directed on humanity.

  86. ingo

    19 Jul, 2010 - 1:48 pm

    What I find perplexing is that he has not got the gravity to work with more experienced staff in the FCO legal department, as we now got to know, they actually approached him and offered their support.

    he’s culpable and part of it, no doubt, to wriggle now, its very easy with hindsight and they are all apologetic now, Straw Hoon and Goldsmith, whilst Blair seems to inhabit another planet alltogether and the bombs go off in Baghdad/Iraq on a daily basis.

  87. somebody

    19 Jul, 2010 - 2:19 pm

    How Antony Ward, a scavenger, corners the world’s commodities markets, especially Africa’s, for the benefit of his hedge fund. Like Humpty Dumpty will be have a great fall? I do hope so.

    Ghana is mentioned within -

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/markets/7897389/Cocoa-king-Anthony-Ward-is-hungry-for-African-food-production.html

  88. Iain Orr

    19 Jul, 2010 - 2:30 pm

    Re Blair’s Badnesses – Craig’s “Catholic Orangemen of Togo” contains important evidence about the cavalier way Blair was prepared to treat UN sanctions in Sierra Leone.

    So, will the prosecution and the defence please both look at the Landline saga? The role of British mercenaries in the Blair years (with Brown in the Treasury playing his lesser but still crucial tasks) has lessons not just for judging the past government but guiding this and future governments towards less wayward policies.

    Anyone who helps bring that evidence again before the public will be doing valuable service in making sure that the final verdict of this generation on Blair is a rounded one ( for a good image of roundness, think dung-beetle).

  89. Mark Golding - Children of Iraq

    19 Jul, 2010 - 3:45 pm

    CAMERON & the ‘BIG SOCIETY’ Repair Unit

    David Cameron has been tasked with repairing ‘broken Britain’ by infiltrating our communities with ‘an army’ of 5,000 professional community organisers, specially trained to glue the ‘cracks’ in our society.

    The plan, based on a community organising movement established by Saul Alinsky in the United States is designed to ‘seek out’ government activists or radicals that never make ‘the team’ and oppose the idea of deep state.

    The ‘Big Society’ is clever in that it will attempt to unite the British public while the government attempts severe cuts in public finance and attempts to move some elements of the NHS system into private hands in the same way as it will attempt to hand over the welfare system into private companies whose success will be based on a bonus system using government (our) tax money.

    I call the system ‘creeping infiltration’ into local communities and parishes to undermine the present decision making processes that currently exist in our cities, towns and villages.

    Public opposition to the Iraq war and now Afghanistan wars, the anger of politicians stealing money through expenses and the push for war on Iran, together with severe cuts in the next few years need a system to nullify, weaken and divide unions, anti-war organisations and the general public from rioting and marching.

    The ‘Big Society’ funded by the ‘Big Society Bank’ of unclaimed assets are ‘deep’ governments way out of a crisis.

    Watch out for your next community centre spy!!!

  90. Stephen Jones

    19 Jul, 2010 - 4:14 pm

    —-”What is really funny is the smug self-satisfied ignorance of so many of the posters here. It’s not a sin to be rich but noblesse oblige…..”——–

    Nobody’s under any obligation whatsoever to pay for reading material for those who can’t be bothered to buy it.

    If Barker doesn’t have a credit card he can send money in advance to Amazon. There are millions more worthy causes than him.

  91. Craig Oldfield

    19 Jul, 2010 - 4:36 pm

    Stephen Jomes, shame shame shame on you. YES, people DO have an obligation to help the poor. You are a cocksucking fuckwit and you deserved to lose your wife. You are a wankstain, a blot on humanity, a fart, a piece of shit.

  92. Richard Robinson

    19 Jul, 2010 - 4:43 pm

    “the smug self-satisfied ignorance of so many of the posters here”

    We are, indeed, ignorant of why it’s so important for Barker to read this book and so impossible for him to get it any other way. That’s because he hasn’t explained it. And, how is it right to describe someone (again, unexplainedly) as a sponger and then try to sponge off them ?

    2) Mangoes don’t try to guilt-trip people.

  93. Mark Golding - Children of Iraq

    19 Jul, 2010 - 5:02 pm

    The ‘Big Society Crackdown.’

    Peace campaigner, 85, classified by police as ‘domestic extremist’

    John Catt and his daughter were placed under surveillance at more than 80 lawful protests.

    guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jun/25/peace-campaigner-classified-domestic-extremist

    Peace protesters in Parliament Square will be thrown out after losing an eviction battle with London Mayor Boris Johnson today.

    The Democracy Village set up near the House of Commons in May must be dismantled, the Appeal Court ruled.

    But the judge was forced to leave amid chaotic scenes as activists shouted “hypocrite” and accused him of running a pirate court. The Master of the Rolls, Lord Neuberger, rejected an appeal against eviction and refused the group leave to take their case to the Supreme Court.

    The so-called peace campaigners must now pay 80 per cent of the estimated £110,000 legal costs of bringing the case. If they fail to pay, the Mayor must decide whether to spend more money chasing the debt or write it off.

    The case was won on the grounds of public health and sanitation?

    thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23856756-parliament-square-protesters-to-learn-if-they-will-be-evicted.do

  94. Suhayl Saadi

    19 Jul, 2010 - 5:03 pm

    Richard, Iain, Stephen, it’s just the ‘Bill and Ben, Flowerpot Men’ Show – again! Or rather, ‘Neil and Ben’ – schlobaloab, wee-eed.

    Mangoes are the answer. Lots and lots of mangoes.

  95. Richard Robinson

    19 Jul, 2010 - 5:18 pm

    “Bill and Ben”

    Yes.

    This Oldfield was a crony of Barker’s. He was the aggressive one, Barker held his coat with perverse moralising about what a naughty person the victim was. There were a couple more, I wonder whether they’ve found anything more interesting to do in the meantime … I hear Take That have got together to relive their glory days, too. Never mind, the world can stand it.

    Fruit juice. I wonder if I can catch the shops ? Blah, it’s pissing down, forget it.

  96. Suhayl Saadi

    19 Jul, 2010 - 5:34 pm

    Yeah, Richard, it’s been raining here all day, too. I need some Gaelic coffee. A Cuban cigar, perhaps – and all the lithium I can get!

    Oldfield…? Maurice Oldfield? Sally Oldfield? Mike Oldfield?

    ‘The Sallyangie’ was a duo consisting of Sally and Mike Oldfield – ‘folky’ (ah, that word again!) songs, late 1960s, a bit like ‘Sandy [Denny] and the Strawbs’.

    I have an LP somewhere… them standing around a wooden barrel or a well, perhaps, wearing cloth caps.

    Ah, you mean ‘Craig Oldfield’! Ben S, Craig O and Neil B: What a team! What a dream! My goodness, they must be cutting costs drastically down at Legoland!

  97. Larry from St. Louis

    19 Jul, 2010 - 5:57 pm

    I come back here and my god, you people are stupid.

    Btw, on Sept. 11, 2001, 19 Arab Muslims with religious anti-women hatred in their hearts committed suicidal acts of terrorism in the name of their version of Allah.

  98. Richard Robinson

    19 Jul, 2010 - 5:59 pm

    Lithium, yes. I had a friend once who, ah, become a lot quieter once someone decided that was what he needed.

    Gaelic coffee ? Now you’re talking. Again, would mean facing the rain, but it might make it worth it.

  99. Suhayl Saadi

    19 Jul, 2010 - 7:55 pm

    The phrase, Big Society, of course, is based, of course, on Lyndon Johnson Administration’s ‘Great Society’. Odd, I’ve not heard anyone in the media point out this very obvious fact.

    Actually, the ‘Great Society’ programmes did a lot of good things in the USA at that time, and it was continued and even broadened by Nixon.

    It all ended under Reagan-Bush.

    But I think Mark’s correct, in the context of the current UK regime, it’ll be a cover and facilitator for cuts in frontline services – essentially the exact opposite of the concept of the ‘Great Society’.

    Anyone recall how Thatcher took the word, ‘radical’ and turned it into a Right-wing catchword? The corporate world constantly bastardises linguistics. The Tories took The Tree as their emblem, what rot!

    Appropriation of the lexicon is the first stage in a coup d’etat.

  100. Suhayl Saadi

    19 Jul, 2010 - 8:04 pm

    100 pineapples – a fine gift for a rainy day! Eat one and become fruity!

    spambot’s sister

    The Ottoman Garden is a beauteous place. Do they grow pineapples there, though?

    troll’s auntie

    Anyone got a pineapple haiku…?

  101. somebody

    19 Jul, 2010 - 8:49 pm

    Spiky and Tasty

    Yellow Sweetness Always There

    Delectable Fruit

    http://quizilla.teennick.com/poems/9861759/pineapple-haiku

  102. Suhayl Saadi

    19 Jul, 2010 - 10:15 pm

    Ah, you are a truly a renga master, ‘somebody’!

  103. Stephen Jones

    20 Jul, 2010 - 12:34 am

    —–”Btw, on Sept. 11, 2001, 19 Arab Muslims with religious anti-women hatred in their hearts committed suicidal acts of terrorism in the name of their version of Allah.”——

    Pity they didn’t get you, innit?

  104. Larry from St. Louis

    20 Jul, 2010 - 3:50 am

    “Pity they didn’t get you, innit?”

    They came close.

  105. Ingo

    20 Jul, 2010 - 8:47 am

    I’m gettin’ there….

    Mangoes don’t think, sweet longing memories of sun soaked mixing fun.

  106. somebody

    20 Jul, 2010 - 9:56 am

    Let us know that everything’s OK Craig. Know you’ve been busy. Just a line will do.

  107. Adam

    20 Jul, 2010 - 10:17 am

    Interesting that with all the public sector cuts that:

    “The FCO has provided £428,105 in funding to The Quilliam Foundation from

    April 2009 to April 2010 for a project in Pakistan aimed at directly

    challenging and undermining the arguments used by violent extremists to

    recruit vulnerable people overseas.”

    http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/fco_involvement_with_the_quillia

  108. Anonymous

    20 Jul, 2010 - 10:29 am

    Larry, your deluded.You just happened to be nearby

  109. Clark

    20 Jul, 2010 - 11:07 am

    “Blog shut down over terrorist material posted on site”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-10692501

  110. Mark Golding - Children of Iraq

    20 Jul, 2010 - 11:17 am

    Adam,

    Craig Murray sees a party-political reason behind the New Labour government’s support of the Foundation. He has described it as ‘the branch of New Labour tasked with securing the Muslim vote and reducing British Muslim dissatisfaction with New Labour over the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2009/04/new_labour_corr.html

  111. Mark Golding - Children of Iraq

    20 Jul, 2010 - 11:41 am

    Clark,

    One of many – In Britain we call such blogs, ‘part of a broken society’ – heed my warnings – even coia is under threat of closure.

  112. Richard Robinson

    20 Jul, 2010 - 1:03 pm

    “Blog shut down over terrorist material posted on site”

    Good Lord. Shut down 69,999 sites with nothing against them, because they were hosted on the same server as one where someone said something bad ? In a sane world that would be astonishing.

  113. Carl Eve

    20 Jul, 2010 - 2:03 pm

    You bloody marvel Craig. I’m sewing a cape as we speak!

    Good luck with your excellent efforts and more power to your elbow. I’ll raise a glass of Fairtrade-esque pineapple juice to you and the rest of those making the difference.

  114. somebody

    20 Jul, 2010 - 2:12 pm

    Best news so far today.

    “visits to the Times site have fallen to 4.16% of UK quality press online traffic”

    “The huge drop matches the industry expectation before the Times instituted the paywall that traffic would fall off by 90%, which is the standard experience when a site moves to a paid-access model instead of free access.”

    “News International’s accounts to June 2009 show a daily loss of about £240,000 for both Times titles, and last month’s ABCs show a year-on-year headline monthly circulation slump of 14%, to 503,642.”

    “Sabbagh goes on to calculate that the typical Times print reader is worth “at least two and a half times” the average online reader.”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/jul/20/times-paywall-readership

  115. Clark

    20 Jul, 2010 - 2:44 pm

    1.7 billion US communications recorded DAILY!

    “The NSA sorts a fraction of those [1.7 billion e-mails, phone calls and other types of daily collected communications] into 70 separate databases. The same problem bedevils every other intelligence agency, none of which have enough analysts and translators for all this work”.

    http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/07/19/secrecy/index.html

  116. Richard Robinson

    20 Jul, 2010 - 3:27 pm

    It would be interesting to know how much they’re throwing at what software development to try and cope with this, and what might eventually come of it (if any of it ever works, and if it reaches the public domain before it arrests us all just in case).

    Some kind of variant of the ‘the atomic bomb project gave us the non-stick frying-pan’ argument, the way that throwing insane amounts of money at something spins off unexpected results …

    It always seems to be used to justify military expenditure. Personally, I rather suspect it would be in no way weakened if it was something else entirely that sucked up all the disposable money. A public health system, for example, would probably develop a similar set of “needs” if it had the chance.

  117. Mark Golding - Children of Iraq

    20 Jul, 2010 - 6:52 pm

    AirRobot UK is to supply a dozen drones as part of a new surveillance strategy test bed for the Olympic games. The company has already supplied 12 UK constabularies with drones, with seven more placing orders with the company in the last six weeks. I suspect in the next six months a national drone plan will be announced by the coalition government.

    A LITTLE KNOWN change in the Civil Aviation Authority rules at the beginning of January means the licensing issue is now non-existent.

    By 2015 a total of 150 drones will buzz around UK skies using infra-red technology and high definition imaging.

  118. Richard Newstead

    20 Jul, 2010 - 9:37 pm

    Hello Craig

    You probably will not remember me but we were at school together (Paston). I have heard you speak many times and often wondered if you were the same Craig Murray – it seems that you are.

    Best wishes with your political career. I have admired your courageous stance on many issues.

    Kind regards

    Richard

  119. ingo

    20 Jul, 2010 - 10:35 pm

    No regulations for drones?

    Not nationally, or internationally? what a big loophole is that in our international defences?

    Oh deary us.

    Now don’t get me wrong, but how much does it take to hang a business suitcase underneath on of these drones and chuck it on someones mud hut?, rather than build an expensive missile capability.

    Now anybody lifting the regulations here, nationally, regs. that could keep drones from our private sphere’s, is blatantly increasing the threat of civilians beind hit by some or other retaliatory measure, they are increasing terrorism and the scope for it by this measure, lets us all say thank you for that great idea Acpo and William.

    And muchas gracias for the adject possiblity that some lost braincell is finding it necessarry to get himself an 8.8 or Oerlikon for his garden rockery to fight these eviul fascists machines.

    But then, drones maybe equipped with drone to drone beastialities? or can’t they? What about Kamikaze ballons?

    Replacing political PC’s with intelligent machines, i.e. slowflying drones, means that Cameron can cut their ringfenced, fireproof jobs, so safe under the new coalition.

    There should be a price for whoever brings down the first of these snoops.

  120. Craig Oldfield

    21 Jul, 2010 - 12:28 am

    Oh I remember you Richard Robinson. I recollect your innumerable postings about sniffing your sister’s panties. Are you still a nu labour fanatic?

  121. Mark Golding - Children of Iraq

    21 Jul, 2010 - 1:50 am

    You know some of us have moved a long way from pineapple crowns and I am feeling a tad guilty, so, with apologies I want to turn back the pages and put our great friend and host, Craig Murray, under a rather long range spotlight (I hope and pray he is still travelling as the silence is a rather worrying).

    I believe Craig’s finest moment will prove to be his frank, courageous, knowledgeable and excruciatingly honest assessment of the Iraq Inquiry members which he wrote on November 24th 2009 that revealed the central lie of Iraq possessing WMD. Told in exquisite reliable, undeniable, focused and understandable language between peers, the page must focus and direct the outcome of the Iraq inquiry.

    We learned that Craig was head of the FCO Section of the Embargo Surveillance Centre, responsible for intelligence analysis on Iraqi attempts at evading sanctions, particularly in the field of weapons procurement. Craig told us that Sir William Patey KCMG was the head of the FCO geographical department which included Iraq and that in conversation with him about Iraq’s WMD, the stories could not be true. In reply to Craig Bill had said, “Of course not Craig, it’s bollocks.” – A damning indictment; an admission that we later learn caused Craig much sadness and despair – (http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2010/01/god_i_didnt_kno.html). Craig was only able to reconcile his telling by considering the enormous Iraq fatalities including the deaths of our fine young servicemen.

    I now strongly believe that the Queens Knights that form Sir John Chilcot’s committee on the Iraq war have an honour and duty to formally declare that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction and therefore the invasion of Iraq on March 20th 2003 was illegal and that history must be re-written.

    I am therefore extremely proud of this man, Craig Murray, and I hope in the fullness of time our Queen will receive a recommendation that this personal sacrifice will be be rewarded with Knighthood.

    For that is the British way and that honour will, as time passes, be the restoration of our countries standing.

  122. Richard Robinson

    21 Jul, 2010 - 1:56 am

    Yes, hope he’s having a really good time somewhere a long way away from the internet. The trolls won’t mess with him once they’ve seen how he castrates a pineapple …

  123. glenn

    21 Jul, 2010 - 3:21 am

    Barker – So you’re on a connection in a shop, eh? So you’ve got your own machine there, or someone that’s lending it to you?

    Surely, if such a person who can lend you a computer, not to mention the bandwidth to upload to torrent etc. which you were bragging about last time, the very same book you are begging for again (!), they could give you the £1.54 necessary for a second hand paperback.

    After all, such a person would be very familiar with your longtime poverty problems, and would be a softer touch! They must know you don’t smoke, drink, eat, etc. etc. …errhhh… Oh, if only you could have just £1.54 and saved months of begging in dozens of posts… euuuggghh!!!

    Good luck with more BS, Barker. Give me more details of the poverty you’re under, I’m a pretty soft touch myself, but you’re just not pulling the heart-strings quite yet.

    *

    [Let's just keep count from this post. If impoverished Internet correspondent Barker could put aside 10p per post, he'd have managed to save 20p so far in this thread alone, so just 90p, or nine posts more to go!]

  124. anno

    21 Jul, 2010 - 5:32 am

    Lord Goldsmith is a zionist. He stood firmly by his own law. It just doesn’t happen to be the law of England or International Law, moral law or even Islamic Law. Why does Cameron look like he’s done a round with Mike Tyson? Because he’s found out he’s PM but he doesn’t have any power. It’s no good crying on Obama’s shoulder. Boo Bah! Nobody listens to their leaders any more. Usury rules, okay. It isn’t the honeymoon Queensberry season now. It’s time for Her Majesty’s zionist opposition, like Goldsmith and Miliband to deny everything and support their own kind inside the new government.

    It would be nice if the Tories reversed the Stalinist grip of John Prescott over the free enterprise of this country. I just found out from HMRC that the courses our erstwhile Deputy forced us construction workers to attend, in order to prove that we can do our job, are not claimable expenses. Oh says the tax advisor, you might take benefit from the course for your own private use. Yes, and Craig might be drinking Mango juice in Africa. It doesn’t mean he can’t claim his airfare.

  125. Vronsky

    21 Jul, 2010 - 8:21 am

    Just back from a visit to the States, where I learned that military drones are now used to patrol the Mexican border. I think we can expect to hear much more about these marvellous devices.

  126. ingo

    21 Jul, 2010 - 9:07 am

    Just patrolling Vronsky? or the odd incursion into Mexico.

    I personally can’t see that they should be used by anybody until the question of sovereignity is discussed and decided upon.

    Whether the UN is still such a body is questionable, but the rules about engaging these wannabe robots are not even in draft form.

    Why have the western powers, always so proud of their democratic existence, not thought of their own sovereignity when they designed these new weaponsystems begs the question.

    BTW. Eliza Manningham Buller has definately earned herself a consignment of her favourite juice.

    Her crucification was clear and unmistaken, there were no WMD’s in Iraq and we knew it,

    I agree with Mark, the Chilcott inquiery cannot come to any other conclusion.

    Leaves the point to make that any of their decisions are mere opinions, nothing will happen as a result of them.

    But should a foreign country decide to take the UK decision making to court and call upon the results and or wotnesses to come forward, then they will feel obliged to agree, so I believe.

    Please berate me if such a notion of fair due process is impossible.

  127. Clark

    21 Jul, 2010 - 9:36 am

    These drones crash frequently. Proposing to use them for surveillance at the Olympics is madness.

    http://www.bepj.org.uk/drone-crashes-at-parc-aberporth

  128. Clark

    21 Jul, 2010 - 9:39 am

    The Powers That Be haven’t looked at the international legal implications of drones, but countermeasures are being developed:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-10682693

  129. somebody

    21 Jul, 2010 - 10:42 am

    If you look at this AirRobot UK lot, which Mark linked to above, you see that no names are given on the About Us button. Total anonymity other than the location. They are based on 55 acres at Chilmark on the Salisbury Plain and have an offshoot that trains personnel in explosives work. I am sure that they are a quasi military operation.

    Chilmark used to be a Royal Ordnance site with giant underground bunkers and then became part of BAe as far as I know.

  130. Clark

    21 Jul, 2010 - 11:29 am

    AirRobot UK, “Formerly Rotorcams”, obviously a military outfit of some sort. There seems to be less and less distinction between the armed forces and private enterprise, here on Airstrip One. See about 2/3 down the following page, or word-search the page for “chilmark”

    http://www.secret-bases.co.uk/secret4.htm

  131. ingo

    21 Jul, 2010 - 11:30 am

    Exactly, Clark, thanks for pointing out the fallacies of our generally hostile R&D.

    The solid state laser is only good in dry, high visibility situations, ideally shooting at non reflective targets.

    I would prefer the phallanx on its own, maybe with a little proximity programme so you don’t waste too much ammo on this new and loved US forces toy.

    Why do they love it? cause they can home in their hellfire mission from 6000 miles holding on to a joy stick, whilst still having a hand free to fondle their extremeties.

    Now what for war games? Are they still the good egg our kids should enthuse about?

    yesterday I had a friend round for coffee in the garden and we talked about some years past.

    Then wwhen we came to what we did when rampantly young and full of it, he started a sentence with

    ‘I remember going down the Broads and along short dyke, nobody ever went from the path, but we RAISED HELL all summer long’.

    We both looked up and almost said in unison

    ‘they don’t raise hell anymore today’. Because they are on the computer, fart book, x-box, supermario…and war/fighting games galore.

    Children are not allowed to go out, make dens, run through the landscape like some happy loons, or build some rickety tree house, we do not want them to foster their own independent spirited selfs, we want them to be quiet, coalescing with our ideas, getting on in life, but then we also actively promte them sitting at home with not enough exercise, by letting them play with games that promote dealing in death.

    BTW. small reminder, Doune castle 30/31st. July, nearest railway Dunblane, many bands and fun to be had, I’ll be there giving a helping hand.

  132. ingo

    21 Jul, 2010 - 12:51 pm

  133. Mark Golding - Children of Iraq

    21 Jul, 2010 - 1:00 pm

    Clark,

    Thanks for the research. Some idea of the operating frequency of the AR100B can be gained from the aerial length. My knowledge of electronic warfare is somewhat dated but I am interested in how easy it would be to jam the control with high power, wide bandwidth noise centred on the operating frequencies. I suspect the control uses frequency diversity so some further research is necessary.

  134. Richard Robinson

    21 Jul, 2010 - 1:32 pm

    “I am interested in how easy it would be to jam the control”

    1) If these things are some kind of military spinoff, should they not have been built with the idea of defeating any such attempt with the full resources of a hostile military behind them ?

    2) Is this the kind of thinking that could end up discrediting the board really badly as a place where really hostile “techniques” are discussed ? Or is that too paranoid of me ?

    Must read up more about these things, the idea of their crashing onto populated areas isn’t too good. Also, do they do much that the police helicopters don’t already ? Infra-red, heat-sources in attics, grow-lights; not unknown already, I think. Much cheaper, presumably ? so there could be lots more of them while still allowing numbers showing Cutbacks, Which Of Course Are Good ?

  135. Mark Golding - Children of Iraq

    21 Jul, 2010 - 2:39 pm

    Richard,

    I take your point, but, as others here have wisely pointed out (just like my son’s R/C helicopter) with no legislation we could these procreating ‘spy’s in the sky’ coming down, blades turning, into public areas and school playgrounds, harming children and the general public. My interest is one of health and safety, an asset to this board!

  136. Mark Golding - Children of Iraq

    21 Jul, 2010 - 2:43 pm

  137. ben newsam

    21 Jul, 2010 - 3:55 pm

    who is dem bois in de picture. dem u friends?

  138. Richard Robinson

    21 Jul, 2010 - 4:58 pm

    Mark – yes, I agree, it is to worry about, and the idea that it might be possible for people to deliberately jam their systems is an unpleasant one (though, as I say, I’d guess – *hope* – massively unlikely, barring utter hideous boondoggle). I just got mildly worried about the possibility of the discussion heading off into terms that could be misrepresented as being suggestions of doing that.

    I used to live on a street that was handy for dumping nicked cars in a hurry late at night – the helicopters can be a total pain in the arse, too, and I used to worry occasionally about one of them going tits up (I don’t know whether any ever have).

  139. Richard Robinson

    21 Jul, 2010 - 5:06 pm

    Put it another way, perhaps I read too hastily and misunderstood. Apologies, Mark.

  140. Mark

    21 Jul, 2010 - 9:05 pm

    Over 400k of fco money for quilliam. What is wrong with these people?

  141. Courtenay Barnett

    21 Jul, 2010 - 10:04 pm

    @ Mark Golding,

    Why should Murray feel honoured by being embraced by a knighthood by the same corrupt system that he stood in a principled manner against.

    He does not need their honour – he has his own.

    As I said at the time that the Americans invaded Iraq in 2003:-

    “The War And Occupation In Iraq Are Illegal

    By Courtenay Barnett

    Much has been said and written about America’s war, and occupation of Iraq. Amongst the community of nations of the world, and within the minds of the citizens of the world, two statements might succinctly clarify the issues of war and occupation in Iraq. The war was illegal under international law. The occupation remains illegal under international law. The point is:

    ” Article 2(3) and 2(4) of the United Nations Charter read:

    ” (3) All member states shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered.”

    ” (4) All members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations.”

    Sounds simple, reasonable and clear enough. Let me add that there are two and only two exceptions to the Charter’s Article 2(4) prohibition against the use of unilateralist force

    ” … if an armed attack occurs… ” (or is imminent) as contemplated by Article 51 of the UN Charter is one. Authorisation by the Security Council is the other.”

    The Charter of the United Nations has quite clear provisions aimed at the preservation of international peace. President Bush and Prime Minster Blair have set their own standards, rules, and pattern of conduct in response to Iraq. Their standards, rules, and conduct auger well for future wars and remain manifestly ?” illegal.”

  142. Courtenay Barnett

    21 Jul, 2010 - 11:58 pm

    @ Mark Golding

    If Murray wants to maintain his intergrity, here is a good example for him:-

    Rasta poet publicly rejects his OBE (3)Tweet this

    Merope Mills The Guardian, Thursday 27 November 2003 10.55 GMT Article historyThe leading poet Benjamin Zephaniah has publicly rejected an OBE from the Queen in protest at British government policies, including the decision to go to war in Iraq.

    Writing exclusively in the Guardian today, Zephaniah breaks with the convention that those rejecting honours should do so privately when he openly dismissed the award as a legacy of colonialism.

    The Rastafarian poet argues that the very name of the Order of the British Empire reminds him of “thousands of years of brutality – it reminds me of how my foremothers were raped and my forefathers brutalised”.

    Zephaniah also challenges the prime minister to clarify the “suspicious circumstances” surrounding his cousin’s death in police custody.

    Zephaniah was perhaps an unusual choice to be nominated for an OBE: one of his poems, Bought and Sold, criticises contemporaries who compromise their work by accepting honours.

    Today, he condemns those who permit ego to win out over artistic integrity. Courting popular figures with honours is “what cool Britannia is all about”, he writes. “It gives OBEs to cool rock stars, successful businesswomen and blacks who would be militant in order to give the impression that it is inclusive.” He feels such people with OBEs after their names have “been had”.

    The poet writes: “Me? I thought, OBE me? Up yours, I thought … You can’t fool me, Mr Blair. You want to privatise us all; you want to send us to war; you stay silent when we need you to speak for us, preferring to be the voice of the USA.”

    Zephaniah joins the ranks of luminaries such as the actor Helen Mirren and the film director Ken Loach who turned down similar honours. In keeping with the request of the prime minister’s office, however, they kept tight-lipped about the offer until some years later.

    Downing Street refused to comment on the poet’s rejection. A spokesman said: “We don’t discuss honours lists. It is a matter for Mr Zephaniah.”

  143. Courtenay Barnett

    22 Jul, 2010 - 12:10 am

    @ Mark Golding:-

    The trigger for his harangue was the word “empire” ?” synonymous in his mind with slavery and the idea that black people “were born slaves and should therefore be grateful that we were given freedom by our caring white masters”.

    Extract from the Times ( below)

    “The 45-year-old poet slated the monarchy “that I loathe so much” for refusing to apologise for sanctioning slavery, and while making clear that he had nothing personal against the Queen (“a nice old lady”), he reproached her for not writing to him personally. After all, “she knows me”, he revealed.”

    Maybe Murray would write:-

    ” I rejected it because, Her Majesty knows me ( even although she does not blog with me). I was insulted not to have received a personal letter. I therefore refuse to be knighted.”

    I think that Murray has enough of conservative in him, still to become ” Sir Craig”.

    But, Mark, why are you inviting him to go in that direction. How does it enhance his public persona to embrace the shit? How?

  144. Courtenay Barnett

    22 Jul, 2010 - 12:20 am

    @ Mark Golding:-

    Something from the Evening Standard at the time:-

    “Zephaniah said that when he received a letter from the Prime Minister’s office saying Mr Blair intended to recommend his name to the Queen in the New Year’s honours list, he thought: “OBE, me? Up yours.”

    He added: “Stick it, Mr Blair and Mrs Queen, stop going on about empire.”

    So – Mark – with all the work you have done on Iraq – what logic exists to invite the man to wallow in the shit that the Empire past and present is?

  145. Courtenay Barnett

    22 Jul, 2010 - 12:37 am

    @ Mark Golding:-

    I am saying at all that you are neutal:-

    “If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.”

    Bishop Desmond Tutu

  146. glenn

    22 Jul, 2010 - 1:31 am

    It strikes me that the chances of Mr. Murray being both offered and accepting a knighthood are as close to zero as any event possibly could be, even in these times.

  147. Courtenay Barnett

    22 Jul, 2010 - 2:05 am

    @ Glenn,

    Thanks for confirming.

    It was more the acceptance than the offenring I was concerned about – but – depending on the politics – probablity is the establishment has alreadyty said ” just fuck ‘im.”

  148. Courtenay Barnett

    22 Jul, 2010 - 2:45 am

    @ Craig:-

    Call it market forces enjoy:-

    http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=tAXpuW3yFJM&feature=related

  149. ingo

    22 Jul, 2010 - 11:28 am

    This somehow fits into Max Kaisers vision of a collapsing capitalist system.

    http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2010/07/2010719147325889.html

    The new financial reforms passed by Obama, already being whittled away by special dispensations, seem also designed by the same painter using the same colour scheme, its the same colour that painted the Haiti disaster relief, its called non existent.

    http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/2010/06/20106297251323258.html

  150. nextus

    22 Jul, 2010 - 12:25 pm

    According to the Wikipedia page on “Declining a British Honour”, Craig has already turned down: Lieutenant of the Royal Victorian Order (LVO), Officer of the British Empire (OBE), & Commander of the Royal Victorian Order (CVO).

    Craig is in fact the second most prolific refuser of British Honours (just behind L. S. Lowry on 4). Hurrah for the middle-finger salute!

  151. ingo

    22 Jul, 2010 - 1:49 pm

    I feel compelled to comment without linking, because many of you know by now of the judgement over Ian Tomlinsons assault. Here is what I wrote elsehwere

    Ian Tomlinson was not a protester

    My sincere condolences to the family of Mr. Tomlinson, they have not received justice today.There is a civil case avenue with more chances of success.

    I feel sorry for them and for our children who have to live in this police state that is erroding our base of law, freedom of assembly and more. A society that is clarifying like butter into an establishment that does not like it up them and us who pay and shut up, we are allowed to bail them out and fetter these well fed officers with our taxes.

    YES, I do want to be able to vote for my Chief constable, and yes, there should be a non ACPO choice, why should we run our police by a private company that is biased and political, instead of independent and impartial to pressure.

    Mr. Patel, the first coroner has a record, a history of post mortem mistakes, his judgement can in no way be as valid as that of the other two doctors.

    This judgement should be overturned, because its blatant message will sink into our minds and churn. It says, police officers can push you from behind and hit women with batons, without having to face the law.

    I have no confidence in the judiciary or the police anymore, and such misguided judgements, as well as the behaviour shown by our police officers at environmental protests and demonstration, shows that the violent state image projected by Orwell has arrived, whence political policing ruins peoples life’s and kills, then something is seriously wrong in this country.

    The police will have to ask itself a set of new questions, like.

    Should we be prepared for more clandestine actions.? Will serious activists risk their liberty and personal freedom by carrying on as usual, when they have found their ways to legitamit means of protests barred by violence against innocent bystanders and/or against woman?

    All by grown police officers, fighting fit and with generous pensions, all paid for by us.

    Is this some sort of national masochism were we pay and then get battered until we pay some more?

  152. Mark Golding - Children of Iraq

    22 Jul, 2010 - 1:53 pm

    Cournenay,

    I am never neutral; never on the fence; neutrality is a weakness and abstentions are perverse.

    Your argument has missed my point – ‘.. and that honour will, as time passes, be the restoration of our countries standing.’ This is key to my argument, which is one of shame.

    Shame that, ‘There are no whistleblowers on the lists, as far as I can tell, nor any vindicated opponents of our recent foreign policies, or investigators of political scandals, of which we have far too many. The audit of national excellence is sinking further and further into disrepute; our politicised Honours system is beyond repair.’

    The general public can recommend honours by writing to the Prime-Minister’s Honours Unit, such as they do for, ‘toiling toilet cleaners, brave firefighters, devoted nurses, committed children’s rights activists.’ -’ ..lined up with the dubious, who always get the superior medals, for the baubles are embedded in a strict caste order.’

    When asked if the system could be improved by way of letter which said, ‘Is there any hope that the new broom you brought with you into Downing Street will sweep away the present debased system? Or are there too many socialists in the queue who have been waiting for a now worthless gong and other base pieces of metal?’

    William Hague refused to respond.

    Great men have refused knighthoods, Alan Bennett, David Bowie, Peter Benenson, Stephen Hawking and Trevor Howard to name a few.

    (Thanks to Yasmin for your remarks)

  153. Anonymous

    22 Jul, 2010 - 2:02 pm

    Can someone send Keir Starmer a box of pineapples with a note attached to resign.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-10723274

  154. Iain Orr

    22 Jul, 2010 - 2:04 pm

    Honours? Craig’s probably just waiting for an OM

    That’s just a peg to recycle the Clement Attlee (1883-1967) verse – on himself:

    “Few thought him even a starter

    There were many who thought themselves smarter

    But he ended PM, CH and OM

    An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

  155. Mark Golding - Children of Iraq

    22 Jul, 2010 - 2:25 pm

    My sincere condolences also to the family of Mr. Tomlinson, they have not received justice today.

  156. glenn

    22 Jul, 2010 - 2:58 pm

    Ingo: Indeed, well written. Yet again we have police in blatant violation of the law, absolutely bang to rights in the court of public opinion too, yet they get away with it completely. One apologist from the ranks told a radio-4 news presenter at the time, “We didn’t know he wasn’t a prow-tess-tah!”, as if being such a person would have made the murderous assault acceptable.

    You might recall that last year the Pentagon was caught equating protesting with terrorism. A refresher course for employees had asked the following, as part of a questionnaire with four possible answers:

    Q – Which of the following is an example of low-level terrorism activity?

    a – Attacking the Pentagon

    b – IEDs

    c – Hate crimes against racial groups, or

    d – Protests.

    The correct answer was (d) – protests.

    http://www.securitymanagement.com/news/pentagon-calls-protests-low-level-terrorism-005760

    *

    Decisions like this by the CPS make it very clear that attending a peaceful protest – or indeed being anywhere near one – is official disproved of, and the police can flagrantly assault or even kill you with impunity should you dare do so.

    What gets me is that these cases wouldn’t even have got this far, had it not been for the chance images from a passing tourist’s camera. Little wonder the police are so fond of confiscating cameras, and using ‘terrorism’ powers to frighten away photographers! We are expected to believe that with the many millions spent on ‘security’ surveillance in our cities and at such events, officials just wouldn’t have noticed this criminal police activity without some tourist taking a chance picture.

    Clearly, our tax money is spent only to gather evidence against us, not to protect us in these situations. And also clearly, the establishment regards democratic and peaceful protesting as a nuisance, and participants should officially expect harsh treatment, ‘kettling’ (unlawful detention), and a serious risk of death or injury.

  157. Neil Barker

    22 Jul, 2010 - 3:28 pm

    No, Glen. Free use of the internet is readily available when I go to the town to buy food. I can not ask the guy to buy me a book. Anyway, how could he do it? People here don’t have credit cards, or cheques, or access to libraries.

    Get real! Learn how people live in the rest of the world outside your smug, sickly cocoon.

  158. Suhayl Saadi

    22 Jul, 2010 - 5:05 pm

    Neil Barker, could you send me an elephant, please? By registered delivery, in a large, padded envelope – next time you’re in town. We can’t get elephants here, you know, it’s very difficult to get rhinoceroses as well, so if you could throw one of those in, it’d be much appreciated.

  159. Mark Golding - Children of Iraq

    22 Jul, 2010 - 6:49 pm

    Good post Glenn, well said – No wonder Dave Davis was ‘booted out’ (resigned) from the Conservative shadow cabinet when he promised on WebCameron to roll-back the so called ‘terrorist’ powers catalysted by the ‘dodgy’ (MI5 whistle-blower) 7/7 attacks. Who was killed at Canary Wharf? – OWN UP! before you bastards are exposed in time!

  160. Ruth

    22 Jul, 2010 - 7:36 pm

    ‘Clearly, our tax money is spent only to gather evidence against us, not to protect us in these situations. And also clearly, the establishment regards democratic and peaceful protesting as a nuisance, and participants should officially expect harsh treatment, ‘kettling’ (unlawful detention), and a serious risk of death or injury.’

    Not just that. Look at the sentences given to the protesters at the Israeli embassy.

  161. Courtenay Barnett

    22 Jul, 2010 - 8:02 pm

    @ Mark Golding,

    And you have stated my point:-

    ” Great men have refused knighthoods”

    And Murray can, if he so chooses – prove himself great.

  162. Mark Golding - Children of Iraq

    22 Jul, 2010 - 11:43 pm

    Hi Ruth, you say ‘Clearly, our tax money is spent only to gather evidence against us’ true but with agent Cameron in power we have ‘neighbourhood watch’ surveillance using dormant funds.

    Part of the program of ‘Big Brother’ – sorry I mean ‘Big Society’ is a ‘community force’ aka ‘Citizen Corps’ in the States, that will under the guise of training others in helping poorer communities, rehabilitating offenders and making our young people more responsible, be in reality, a scheme to try and bring back ‘trust’ in government for future generations.

    Every UK adult according to the schemes draft proposals should be involved in ‘Active Neighbourhood Groups (ANG’s) and an appointed ‘leader’ will ‘ensure compliance to a neighbourhood code of conduct to protect against extremists causes.

    Neighbourhood members (non-members?) will be classified in an on-line rating system/scheme along with street by street crime analysis. The best neighbourhood spies will be rewarded using ‘results’ criteria.

    A ‘National Army’ of 5,000 community organisers will be government trained (and funded) to establish and operate neighbourhood groups and help them ‘tackle difficult social challenges.’

    “Your only supposed to blow the bloody doors off”

  163. Richard Robinson

    23 Jul, 2010 - 1:58 am

    “Your only supposed to blow the bloody doors off”

    Not the airplane and the dead.

  164. glenn

    23 Jul, 2010 - 2:21 am

    Hey Barker… I’m real enough, nay worries about that. I’m wondering why you _really_ need a free book, when you’ve bragged about already having it in electronic form, and boasted how you intend uploading it to torrent etc.. Why debasing yourself by begging for a hard copy too?

    And at 10p per post, which I’m sure you could put aside since you can find so much time on your hands and with all the pleading and so forth (since this is clearly such a priority in your life), that’s just 80p left until you can get your second hand copy from Amazon! Maybe your _really_ good mate Craig Oldfield could stump up the remaining 80p, since he’s so behind your very _real_ and most worthy cause?

    Where’s impoverished hell-hole in which you are forced to live? Why the need for so much charity in your direction, why are you so pathetically dependent and needy? How come you’re the most worthy charity on the planet all of a sudden? Why isn’t the electronic copy of the book good enough for you? How come you’re such a hard luck case, that you get to denounce me – a guy who works for every penny he gets – as living in a “smug, sickly cocoon” ?

  165. Richard Robinson

    23 Jul, 2010 - 3:27 am

    “Where’s impoverished hell-hole in which you are forced to live?”

    Surrey ?

    http://www.myspace.com/acidmod/photos/2139734

  166. Neil Scumbag

    23 Jul, 2010 - 8:37 am

    I don’t work or do nothin. Can’t be bothered. The taxpayer funds me, my home and my six kids.

    Why wouldn’t I want a free book too, if people are stupid enough to give it to me?

    I’ve never conributed nothin all my life and I expect my kids will be the same. Not only will we never contribute anything, we’ll do our best to subtract from life through crime, taking your money, making a mess in the streets, being loud, drunk and agressive and threatening everyone with large dangerous dogs which shit everywhere and are never on a lead so they can attack at leisure.

    Not my fault. It’s just the way the welfare state made me.

  167. ingo

    23 Jul, 2010 - 10:23 am

  168. Mark Golding - Children of Iraq

    23 Jul, 2010 - 12:46 pm

    WHY THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY CANNOT BE TRUSTED.

    Nick Clegg recently made a statement that the Iraq war was illegal, a long held Lib Dem view.

    bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-10715629

    According to Joseph E Stiglitz and Linda J Bilmes the Iraq war has cost $3 trillion and £13 billion cost to British tax-payers equating to £200 for every man, women and child.

    timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article3419840.ece

    PM David Cameron, George Osborne and William Hague all voted for the Iraq war despite knowing that UN Security council Resolution 1441 did NOT authorise war for the following reasons:

    1. Resolution 1441 was sold as a last chance for peace not an authority for war.

    2.The claim was made that 1441 operative paragraph IV gave the UK material breach, the right to use force if inspections were not properly complied with. That is NOT what paragraph IV says, it in fact says that such an assessment needs to be reported back to the council, so the council is able to make it’s own view, in other words their needs to be another resolution authorising force.

    3. Resolution 1441 was authority given by the council in 1990, TWELVE years before, for a completely different set of circumstances, when Iraq was invading Kuwait, for the authority to go to war.

    4. The UK went back to the Security Council and did NOT get a second resolution authorising war.

    The Conservative held view that the revival of a twelve year old UN resolution is clearly invalid and Nick Clegg’s confirmation that the Iraq war was illegal must hold true in International law.

    The WMD argument was a lie and Britain committed huge sums of Defence money and soldiers lives (without adequate protection to boot).

    Historically the years proceeding the war further reveals UK complicity after turning it’s back on the Iraq peoples uprising against US backed tyrant, Saddam Hussein in 1991 and while US/UK BCCI bank account fraud was exposed, and France discovered that Osama Bin Laden also had a BCCI bank account.

    Britain and America must now apologise to the Iraqi nation for the enormous loss of life and the destruction of an ancient civilisation.

    From the British security Services statement we now learn that the Iraq war made Britain more vulnerable to terrorist attack. The British government should therefore make a public statement and apologise to the families of those lost through terrorist acts since the Iraq war.

  169. Richard Robinson

    23 Jul, 2010 - 1:38 pm

    “Apologise” hardly seems to cover it. We caused vast death, destruction and misery; in justice, we should make that good, put it right.

    I have no idea how we could even begin to do that, given that any Brit. presence there is probably among the last things they’d want (money, I suppose ?). Nor do I expect the remotest possibility of any such attempt (beyond, perhaps, the faintly cosmetic), barring also-fairly-unlikely external pressure.

  170. Stephen Jones

    23 Jul, 2010 - 4:13 pm

    —-”Where’s impoverished hell-hole in which you are forced to live?”——

    You can hardly expect him to make that public. After all there is a reason why he has to lie low there, after all the civilized boltholes like Thailand or the Costa del Sol got too risky.

Powered By Wordpress | Designed By Ridgey | Produced by Tim Ireland | Hosted by Expathos