Frank Goebbels Gardner at it Again

by craig on February 14, 2012 5:44 pm in Uncategorized

Wonderful bit of balanced reporting from the BBC’s Frank Gardner. He said of Bahrain at 5.42pm on BBC News:

“The Shiite majority does suffer discrimination, but the rest of the population is getting fed up with the continual disruption and demonstrations.”

I remember similar arguments during apartheid:

“The black majority does suffer discrimination, but the rest of the population is getting fed up with the continual disruption and demonstrations.”

Doesn’t sound so good, does it? Anyway, here is to the BBC and keeping the interests of those troublemaking majorities firmly in the context of the much more important comfort of their oppressors.

He then explained that the oppression of opposition in Bahrain could not in the least be compared to the oppression of opposition in Syria, because in Bahrain the government had promised reform.

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83 Comments

  1. He then explained that the oppression of opposition in Bahrain could not in the least be compared to the oppression of opposition in Syria, because in Bahrain the government had promised reform.

    .
    Indeed, the BBC and the British government are utter hypocrites supporting Bahrain’s government against Shia protesters.
    .
    Presumably you do think the two situations are comparable and I’m glad that you do. Although I keep noticing lots of your commenters support Assad quite fervently.

  2. passepartout

    14 Feb, 2012 - 6:17 pm

  3. Angrysoba

    I do indeed think the two are comparable. And in neither case do I think Western bombs would help.

  4. I do indeed think the two are comparable. And in neither case do I think Western bombs would help.

    .
    It sounds like we are in complete agreement then.

  5. “Although I keep noticing lots of your commenters support Assad quite fervently.”
    .
    Really? Would you like to provide some quotes to back that up, Angry?

  6. Medialens:
    UN ‘Travesty': Resolutions Of Mass Destruction – Part 1
    http://www.medialens.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=665:travesty-un-resolutions-of-mass-destruction-part-1&catid=25:alerts-2012&Itemid=69
    .
    Snippet:
    “In short, the resolution resulted in a massive escalation in violence. Seumas Milne noted in the Guardian last week:

    ‘When it began, the death toll was 1,000 to 2,000. By the time Muammar Gaddafi was captured and lynched seven months later, it was estimated at more than 10 times that figure. The legacy of foreign intervention in Libya has also been mass ethnic cleansing, torture and detention without trial, continuing armed conflict, and a western-orchestrated administration so unaccountable it resisted revealing its members’ names’.”

  7. I’m so glad that we have grand witness angrysoba’s direct reports from inside Syria, putting us right on this evil dictators dasty deeds, but which part of Homs does he reside in and what has he got to say to the heroic NATo, Turkish and Quatari forces trying to cleanse non believing citizens from the influences of Assads regime, with the help of some cleansing sectarian murder and terror against anybody who does not agree that western help is needed, urgently, to sort our this regime once and forever.
    Hail ye messenger of freedom liberty and democracy, if these devil Syrians don’t want our murderous help, then how else can we possibly convince them?
    I shall say a prayer for angysoba, how esle could one reward such selfless and conscientious reporting in the midst of bloodthirsty evildoers. Give him a gong.

  8. I think I can trump that. This morining on the Today Programme one of the BBC’s very own expert analysts on international politics pointed out that a representative of the Arab League was visting Germany today and would meet with Merkel.

    Germany, whose ‘way’ wasn’t to send troops to ‘intervene’ overseas like France and the United Kingdom, had been wrong-footed by the rapid collapse of the Gadaffi regime and the German debate about Libya had resulted in Germany finding itself… “… in conflict with the battle between good and evil.” Oh, oh, oh, how I laughed.

  9. Dear, old Frank, must be going dear, or maybe it’s his memory that’s going? Happens to all of us at some stage, but Frank’s is so flippin’ selective!

    I, on the other hand, distinctly remember, long-gone, Gadaffi and representatives of his regime offering a whole range of ‘reforms’ to the Libyan ‘rebels’, also known as the ‘genuine, people’s revolution’, on numerous occasions, so Frank, as usual, doesn’t know WTF he’s talking about!

  10. Greenmachine

    14 Feb, 2012 - 7:15 pm

    Excellent article Passpartout – have read in several sources that Frank G is the ultimate Intelligence Insider! Although O/T have just come across the article released through Rolling Stone mag by Lt Col Daniel Davis which pulls no punches about the lies, misinformation and duplicity of the US MILITARY in the Middle East (yes unbelievable – a trully critical report which has gone unnoticed, yet again, by US MSM!)

    http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/2012/02/12/35359/

  11. Martha Kearney had a Conservative MP called Conor Burns on World at One on Radio 4 today.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01bwmwb/World_at_One_14_02_2012/
    20 mins in
    .
    Burns is Chair of the All Party parliamentary group on Bahrain and appears to speak for them here. He went to Bahrain in October 2010 and was funded by the Bahrain Government. If you google ‘conor burns bahrain’ there are many references.
    .
    TheyWorkForYou
    6. Overseas visits
    Name of donor: Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Bahrain
    Address of donor: c/o The Embassy of the Kingdom of Bahrain, 30 Belgrave Square, London SW1X 8QB
    Amount of donation (or estimate of the probable value): £3,279
    Destination of visit: Bahrain
    Date of visit: 21-25 October 2010
    Purpose of visit: in my capacity as Chairman of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Bahrain I was invited to visit to country to met with Government Ministers and others and to observe the Parliamentary elections that were taking place during the visit.
    .
    Other funded trips were made by Burns to Tunisia and Taiwan in 2011.
    .
    The unpaid secretariat of the APPG on Bahrain is operated by a Mr Saeed Al Habshi Mansoor. Who he?

  12. (Yesterday)
    “Kettling would work well in Bahrain, says former Met police chief”
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/feb/13/kettling-bahrain-met-police-chief
    .
    John Yates, hired to reform Bahrain force, says police are ready to deal with the anniversary of the uprising in the Gulf kingdom …
    .
    The Telegraph also quoted Yates saying of the confrontations on the streets of Bahrain: “This isn’t organised protests, its just vandalism, rioting on the streets.

    “Acts of wanton damage that are destroying the economy.”

  13. I wonder who gave Yates the “crash course” on Bahrain – or did he get it after he arrived?

  14. Yates is a scumbag who I fervently hope will come to regret taking on his current job. Preferably sooner rather than later.

  15. The protesters in Bahrain are Shiites protesting against a Sunni dictatorship. The protesters in Syria are Sunnis protesting against a Shiite (Alawite) dictatorship.

  16. He then explained that the oppression of opposition in Bahrain could not in the least be compared to the oppression of opposition in Syria, because in Bahrain the government had promised reform.

    Hey, hasn’t Assad repeatedly been promising reform?

  17. This is an account of the British involvement in the attack on Libya.
    .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ellamy
    .
    Missiles used, numbers not quoted. Imagine the seared bodies, the injuries and destruction they caused.
    .
    Enhanced Paveway II laser guided bombs
    Paveway IV missiles
    Tomahawk Cruise missiles
    Storm Shadow missiles
    Brimstone missiles
    .
    Other ‘Operations’
    The coalition operation was designated by the U.S. as Operation Odyssey Dawn, The Canadian participation is Operation Mobile and the French participation is Opération Harmattan. It was confirmed in December 2011 that the cost of the UK operations was £212m – less than was estimated, including £67m for replacing spent munitions, is all expected to be met from the Treasury reserve.
    .
    The no-fly zone was proposed during the Libyan civil war to prevent government forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi from carrying out air attacks on anti-Gaddafi forces. Several countries prepared to take immediate military action at a conference in Paris on 19 March 2011.
    .
    The spelling “Ellamy” is found in a poem frequently attributed to John Skelton, “The Harmony of Birds”.
    .
    This latter choice of name is especially sick.

  18. I expect the English government wants the BBC to be nice about the Bahrain government because they are buying weapons from England. Wasn’t Cameron out there kissing up to them recently?

  19. Bahrain receives military equipment from UK despite violent crackdown
    Britain sold over £1m worth of weapons including rifles and artillery to Gulf kingdom during last year’s unrest

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/14/bahrain-military-equipment-uk

  20. Silly greedy little man.
    .
    But the resolute message from the Formula One boss Bernie Ecclestone and the sport’s governing body, the FIA, is that the race will go ahead on 22 April. Last year’s event, which was due to open the season, was cancelled after two postponements.
    .
    Ecclestone, the sport’s commercial rights holder, said day: ” I expected there was going to be a big uprising today, with the anniversary. +++But I think what happened, apparently, was that here were a lot of kids having a go at the police. I don’t think it’s anything serious at all.+++
    .
    “It doesn’t change our position in any shape or form. If the people in Bahrain [the government] say, ‘Look Bernie, it wouldn’t be good for you to come over here,’ then I would think again. That is what they said last year.”

    .
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/feb/14/bernie-ecclestone-bahrain-grand-prix

  21. “The legacy of foreign intervention in Libya has also been mass ethnic cleansing, torture and detention without trial, continuing armed conflict, and a western-orchestrated administration so unaccountable it resisted revealing its members’ names’.”

    Mission accomplished.

  22. It is a disgrace that we the people ought to pay a propaganda tax in the guise of the TV license fee to sustain the torrents of poppycock fed to us by the zioBBC. In fact neither in USSR nor in the Nazi Germany, the populace had to pay a propaganda tax as we do, so far as record hold.
    ,
    Frank Gardner’s reflections on Bahrain revolution perfectly sums up the duplicity of the West in engaging with mid east. The acceptable dictatorships who pay their dues and behave as good poodles do, and the independent nascent democracies which are classified as dictatorships and are deemed ripe for regime change.
    ,
    In Syria the feral gunmen roaming the streets and causing mayhem are portrayed as “Free Syrian Army”, in Bahrain the revolutionaries are classified as anti social disruptive elements causing economic damage, in UK the revolutionaries were classified as rioters and looters engaged in copycat criminal activity. What would the zioBBC say about the feral gunmen in the Meadowell estate patrolling the streets by riding around shotgun in their liberated/stolen cars, taking pot shots at the police and punters alike? Not the “Free British Army” for sure!

  23. DownWithThisSortOfThing

    14 Feb, 2012 - 11:22 pm

    re: Franks Wild Years.
    .
    I have often speculated that F.G. is on secondment to the BBC from some shady government outfit.
    .
    Another one I find a bit whacked-out is Emily Maitlis. I was particularly disturbed by her treatment on Newsnight of the Russian ambassador during the Georgia/South Ossetia hostilities in which Georgian forces (with the aid of 1,000 IDF ‘advisers’) shelled civilians and conducted a mass execution of captured Russian military personnel.
    .
    Emily practically accused the Russian ambassador of personally conducting a genocide against the Georgians and starting a new cold war in an act of naked aggression against a defenseless country. This was while reports were circulating suggesting that Georgia had attacked first. She’s not a spook though, just a run-of-the-mill media whore pretending to be a journalist and trying too hard to please those folk upstairs so she can stay on screen and cultivate a ‘celebrity’ persona to further her media career and make more money, i.e a media whore. :O

  24. DownWithThisSortOfThing

    14 Feb, 2012 - 11:35 pm

    In Syria the feral gunmen roaming the streets and causing mayhem are portrayed as “Free Syrian Army”

    Not only that but they are pro-democracy too, as witnessed by their habit of publicly hanging people from trees in Homs.
    .
    And those car bombs? Bombs on trains? Bombs on buses? They’re freedom bombs bringing hope of a democratic future for ordinary Syrians, whether they want it or not.

  25. DownWithThisSortOfThing

    14 Feb, 2012 - 11:53 pm

    Emily hanging out with a pimp.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUPmv_pkSXk&feature=related
    _
    Self-promotion parading as news. Reads like it was written by her press agent. ‘she says her key weapons on screen are “flirtation, seduction and betrayal”‘. WTF is happening to our news media?
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/emily-maitlis-a-lot-of-front-470513.html

  26. This is a tweet from the Independent (co.uk):
    Caught in his own blast: an Iranian targeting Israel ind.pn/zzI0Sn
    .
    That is also the title of the article: “Caught in his own blast: an Iranian targeting Israel”
    I have replied to them on Twitter and asked them, “Where in the article does it say he was targeting Israel”?
    (This is the man who blew off his own legs in Bangkok, not the attack in Delhi)
    .
    Unless I’m truly going blind, it doesn’t say so anywhere. The closest (and vaguest) is this: “but Israel’s Defence Minister Ehud Barak was quick to point the finger. “The attempted terrorist attack in Bangkok proves once again that Iran and its proxies continue to perpetrate terror,” Mr Barak said on a visit to Singapore, without offering any evidence”
    .
    and yet they’ve put that headline on it??

  27. o/t Did anyone see the Panorama interviewing the little six years old school girl, who talked about her mother catching rats and feeding her?
    ,
    This is the fucking super power empire with the dreams of dominating the planet, and can’t look after those in the “Freedom, Freedom, Democracy ” Lands.

  28. Nuid: Really? Would you like to provide some quotes to back that up, Angry?

    .
    Nope, but Mark and Mary have been stalwart supporters as I am sure you have seen. This is not difficult to see as Mark is a fervent supporter of the Iranian government too and doesn’t believe either the Syrian or Iranian governments have done anything wrong at all.

  29. the Syrian or Iranian governments have done anything wrong at all.
    This kind of absolutism and deflection only passes as debate; in ziozio land of theocratic apartheid.

  30. This kind of absolutism and deflection only passes as debate; in ziozio land of theocratic apartheid.

    .
    You don’t know how to use semi-colons; it doesn’t surprise me.

  31. I have replied to them on Twitter and asked them, “Where in the article does it say he was targeting Israel”?

    .
    I agree that we should wait for the trial. My guess is that he won’t have a leg to stand on.

  32. You don’t know how to use semi-colons; it doesn’t surprise me.
    How very true, your grasp of English is woefully inadequate hence; your lack of surprise.
    ,
    Back to your absolutist, millennial views, peppering the board in defense of the theocratic apartheid regime, as well as a window into your sick mind; “My guess is that he won’t have a leg to stand on.”
    ,
    How very ghoulish, how very zionist, how very unfunny.

  33. How very ghoulish, how very zionist, how very unfunny.

    .
    Sorry, but if the guy was trying to kill people and only succeeded in blowing off his own legs then I have no sympathy for him.

  34. Thanks for the link to that article Mary – Operation Ellamy:

    .
    Than the byrdes all
    Domestical,
    Allat once dyd crye,
    For mankynes sake,
    Both erly and late,
    We all be redy to dye.
    .
    I don’t believe the two BGM-109 Tomahawk cruise missiles c/w 5-150 kt variable yield nukes were used on Libya – strange? I thought they were being ‘tested’ – anyway here’s a blueprint showing how ingenious disingenuous man can be.
    .
    http://archive.greenpeace.org/comms/nukes/fig05.gif

  35. Dr Strangelove aka Norman Tolmar speaks here Mark.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sa7ZX58Kk4
    .
    He seems to be completely unaware of Robbie Burns’ Dirge.
    .
    Man was made to mourn: A Dirge
    Many and sharp the num’rous ills
    Inwoven with our frame!
    More pointed still we make ourselves
    Regret, remorse, and shame!
    And man, whose heav’n-erected face
    The smiles of love adorn, –
    Man’s inhumanity to man
    Makes countless thousands mourn!

    .
    This from a sitrep dated 20 March 2011 Major General Lorimer
    “Last night, British Armed Forces participated in a co-ordinated strike using Tomahawk Land Attack Missiles launched from a Trafalgar Class submarine in the Mediterranean Sea.”
    .
    {http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/MilitaryOperations/LibyaUpdate.htm}
    .
    Fox and Werritty must have been orgasmic throughout Ellamy.

  36. Norman Polmar. An old war horse still discussing new ways of killing people.
    .
    http://security.nationaljournal.com/contributors/norman-polmar.php

  37. Another one I find a bit whacked-out is Emily Maitlis. I was particularly disturbed by her treatment on Newsnight of the Russian ambassador.

    .
    It’s easy to explain much about the mystery of Maitlis by looking at her biography. A Canadian Jew married to a Merrill Lynch banker. How could she fail to succeed? A willingness to flash her tits in public probably helps as well.

  38. There is some lovely honey, beautifully baited and weighted, trailed on this board, Craig. And for those with a sticky sweet tooth are they/is IT as pure gold mind fields to metadatamine and exploit and export with zeroday vulnerabilities which have no possible defence against sublime attack and stealthy assault.
    .
    Methinks such produce for present placement in future programming is priceless …. and thus worth every red cent invested in SMART IT Services ….. for operative spending which thus guarantees simple dumb investment return and morph to sophisticated autonomous source.
    .
    If one ponders on whether British Intelligence [and whatever that would be anonymously cloaked as, is something always of an impossible phantom to catch and therefore one wastes any and all efforts to discover what will never ever be uncovered and exposed] supplies intelligence to HMGovernment to pimp to the puppets in the summoned media for their daily dose of contrived reality from the Big Brother Parliamentary Mad House, or whether they don’t and the show is then just a rogue renegade operation and highly embarrassing amusement and ignorant and arrogant scam perpetrated upon the nation and nations, does the role of the BBC in hosting the sub-prime drama as current news with important views render the supposed national treasure as a fraud devoid of true investigative journalist integrity and as a pathetic paste gem. And those that lead and have led it, crass fools using sharp tools.
    .
    Do you think China sees the big intelligence-light, and therefore false reality picture, all too clearly ……. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/02/14/china_bans_foreign_tv/
    .
    And if media carries big false reality pictures, does IT BroadBandCast AI Virtual Realities ….. and Words Create and Control and Power Worlds and Brave New World Orders with SMARTer Virtual Machine ProgramMING?
    .
    A little something for Lady Neville-Jones to advise the Government on, if she is able. A necessary caveat given her CV which is remarkable enough but only in the normal sphere of party political eventing and blighted by her spell at the BBC as it lost its mojo.
    .
    And that is as much as needs to be said from me on those matters today …… for tomorrow will herald more tales which have no basis in truth and thus will create a virtual reality which is not worth supporting and broadbandcasting.

  39. “Really? Would you like to provide some quotes to back that up, Angry?”
    .
    “Nope, but”

    .
    Typical
    .
    “I have replied to them on Twitter and asked them, “Where in the article does it say he was targeting Israel”?
    .
    “I agree that we should wait for the trial.”

    .
    Nothing to do with a trial. The point is not what comes out at a trial, or what he is eventually found to have been targeting. The point is why THAT headline is on THAT (so-called) news report. NOW. As you well know. So stop wasting time and space by trying to be a smart alec.

  40. From the unmentionable Aaronovitch’s twitter.
    .

    DAaronovitchDavid Aaronovitch

    On cruise ship in the Gulf. US carrier entertains with fly-by then back to cabin & email from campaign v sanctions In Iran. Prefer carrier.

    28 Jan
    .
    Can guess his attitude to Iran sanctions. He is now in Singapore.
    http://twitter.com/DAaronovitch

  41. Mary: I suppose someone has to take on the unpleasant job of following DA’s droppings. Grateful to you for being a public-spirited pro bono cyberpark scooper.

  42. Nuid, do you remember reading Israel had warned about a terrorist attack in Thailand (I have to look and find the article again), maybe Mossad is losing its touch, they are employing total amateurs . The plot so much reminds me of the guy in USA who was supposed to assassinate Saudi Ambassador.
    Guy in Thailand to his wife: I am leaving dear; I am going to blow up….
    Wife: don’t forget to take your passport with you dear… you will be asked to show ID when you buy the explosive

  43. Ok, so there may be more needed to be said today about what may be planned to show tomorrow as news.
    .
    And if you don’t believe what has been said about the virtual nature of programmed reality, what do you make of the truth, or lies if you prefer not to think about the accuracy of what is shared here …… http://youtu.be/fOaCemmsnNk
    .
    How about a Great Game Changer to AI and SMARTer Beta Global Programs which ReProgram Perfectly, Primitive Pedestrians and the Intellectually Challenged and Universally Naive.
    .
    After all, with IT and Media and Command and Control of Communications and Computers in Creative CyberSpace, is it not difficult to do at all when one know what to do and what metaphorical buttons to metaphysical press and what virtual leverage to apply.

  44. Gordon Correrabears all the hallmarks‘ of another BBC spook….

  45. I was struck last night by the way Yates of the Yard seemed to have gone native. The power of money to overcome obstacles has no boundaries it appears.

  46. Nuid: Nothing to do with a trial. The point is not what comes out at a trial, or what he is eventually found to have been targeting. The point is why THAT headline is on THAT (so-called) news report. NOW. As you well know.
    .
    I agree with you. I agreed with you before. What’s the problem you have with me agreeing with you?
    .
    So stop wasting time and space by trying to be a smart alec.

    .
    You can always not bother reading my comments.

  47. JeremyP: It’s easy to explain much about the mystery of Maitlis by looking at her biography. A Canadian Jew married to a Merrill Lynch banker. How could she fail to succeed?
    .
    Funny how this kind of thing just seems to glide right by, these days.

  48. Taffy I wrote this on one of Craig’s blog posts in 2010 entitled A la recherche du temps perdu….
    Correra’s record has been expunged. Wish I had kept the link. I would think that the risk assessment job was some sort of coverall.

    .
    Amazingly the BBC link is still live.
    .
    mary

    19 Mar, 2010 – 9:25 am
    ‘The government is being accused of dragging its feet over the publication of new guidelines for the intelligence agencies on the treatment of terrorist suspects held abroad. Gordon Brown signalled last week that the guidance would be released before a Commons debate on intelligence matters yesterday. Security correspondent Gordon Correra outlines the guidance, and Michael Mates, a senior Conservative MP on the Intelligence and Security Committee, discusses why the government delayed the report.’

    Radio 4 today – there is a link to the segment –

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_8575000/8575788.stm

    PS No show without ‘I was there’ Frank Gardner or ‘I know eveything about terrrrr’ Gordon Correra. I looked the latter up once and there was a link to risk management/assessment within the likes of Price Waterhouse or similar (can’t remember which outfit).

  49. Angry, what’s going on? We don’t see you for ages, and then you turn up channelling the spirit of Larry. You’re normally a great deal more nuanced than that – what’s up?
    .
    And you imply we’re all racist because someone referred to someone’s else Jewishness. I agree that it could be racist – I’ve only just seen it myself – but notwithstanding, you know full well that there is a great deal of anti-racist sentiment on this board. Why suddenly so disingenuous?

  50. This blogpost has been quoted by the not entirely unknown Angry Arab blog:

    http://angryarab.blogspot.com/2012/02/bbc-on-bahrain.html

  51. “The protesters in Bahrain are Shiites protesting against a Sunni dictatorship. The protesters in Syria are Sunnis protesting against a Shiite (Alawite) dictatorship.”

    The other obvious similarity is the presence in both countries of GCC/Saudi troops, mercenaries, NATO weapons and zionist propagandists.

    Of course in Bahrain these are all on the side of the government, whereas, in Syria, they appear to outnumber and certainly outgun the protestor/human shields behind whom they lurk.

  52. the west are not hypocrites, they really hates shia.

    i dont understand why people think their are double standards

  53. “Nuid, do you remember reading Israel had warned about a terrorist attack in Thailand (I have to look and find the article again)”
    .
    I don’t, Azra, but someone suggested that Thailand could be a target-place because security is not so tight there. (Vis a vis renting houses, and so on.)
    .
    “maybe Mossad is losing its touch, they are employing total amateurs”
    .
    Yes, strange that these “sticky bombs” were lethal in Iran, but not lethal in recent attacks supposedly against Israelis (like the car in Delhi). And needless to say Netanyahu blamed Iran before any investigation could even be considered let alone completed. (Just like GW after 9/11.)
    .
    Meanwhile the US media rant on about Iran. Glenn Greenwald has a very good piece on that here:
    http://www.salon.com/2012/02/14/us_media_takes_the_lead_on_iran/singleton/

  54. ‘American Weapons: Destabilizing Middle East And Killing Syrians’
    http://newsjunkiepost.com/2012/02/15/american-weapons-destabilizing-middle-east-and-killing-syrians/

  55. Frank Gardner has always been a greasy toady for the Elite. However unlike many other Elite toadies that make me angry, he at least, is so absurd I have to laugh.

    Frank Gardner isn’t a journalist he’s a Propaganda Parrot

  56. “(Just like GW after 9/11.)”
    .
    Blamed Al Quaeda, I meant, not Iran. (Obviously :))
    So much for writing in a hurry…
    However, Sky News was pushing a story tonight that Al Quaeda has teamed up with Iran, and that Iran is now a “safe haven” for Al Quaeda.
    Dear god, can they not think up a new plot for their warmongering? Are they entirely without imagination?

  57. The most interesting aspect of Frank’s character is similar to Richard Prior Characterising a blind chap in: “See no evil, Hear no evil”, the opening credits of the film has Prior reading the newspaper on the tube, until his sister tells him he is holding the newspaper upside down.
    ,
    Frank is in denial that he is a disabled man, he often props himself before the camera, delivering his package. The site of a disabled man pretending to be able bodied raises too many philosophical and ethical questions, however zioBBC only cares about the lines that are delivered to clarify for the punter the designated baddies of the day.

  58. Ibraheem. To paraphrase: There are no friends and no enemies, there are only interests. It is divide-and-rule. And unfortunately, the idiots (we idiots) always fall for it, because until tribalisms of all kinds are transmuted by real structures and counterbalances and indeed by the proper contextualisation of religion vis a vis the state, the peoples of those lands will remain eminently dividable-and-rulable.

  59. DownWithThisSortOfThing

    15 Feb, 2012 - 11:08 pm

    “And you imply we’re all racist because someone referred to someone’s else Jewishness. I agree that it could be racist”
    .
    It cannot be racist because Jews are no more a race than Christians, Moslems or Jehovas Witnesses.
    .
    If anyone fancies having an argument about it may I suggest reading University of Tel Aviv’s resident Professor of History Shlomo Sands book “The Invention of the Jewish people”. A number one best seller in Israel and available in most public libraries.

  60. Sam Brighton

    16 Feb, 2012 - 2:17 am

    Frank Gardner is another mercenary soldier. He had some tough time in Saudi Arabia. I read his Blood Sand book. I do think he is a paid mercenary and I do think he is writing all these crap because of his wages.

  61. Jon: Angry, what’s going on? We don’t see you for ages, and then you turn up channelling the spirit of Larry. You’re normally a great deal more nuanced than that – what’s up?
    .
    And you imply we’re all racist because someone referred to someone’s else Jewishness.

    .
    Hi Jon!
    .
    I do read the posts and comments from time to time but the consensus here seems to be turning into a kind of black mass of Chicken Little, Doom Porn, Conspiracy Theory, False Flags and general all round pessimism that nuance is frankly impotent against.
    .
    I don’t think that my comments are as bad as you say (spirit of Larry?!), but I am afraid I am not going to pretend to get along with (or even try) with those who have made it quite clear that they live way outside of reality. I just can’t indulge that kind of silliness.
    .
    Downwiththissortofthing: It cannot be racist because Jews are no more a race than Christians, Moslems or Jehovas Witnesses.
    .
    If anyone fancies having an argument about it may I suggest reading University of Tel Aviv’s resident Professor of History Shlomo Sand…

    .
    In fact, races don’t exist, full stop. If you fancy having an argument about it I suggest you read Kenan Malick’s Strange Fruit, although there are plenty of other books on the subject, I am sure. But the point is that just because races don’t exist it doesn’t mean that racism doesn’t exist.
    .
    This subject comes up fairly regularly with the upshot apparently being that racism against Jews/anti-semitism doesn’t exist because it can’t. If you go over to a number of what you might call “neo-con” websites you will find that exactly this kind of sophistry is used to explain away anti-Muslim prejudice with the explanation that as Islam is not a race it isn’t racist to be bigotted against Muslims.
    .
    It’s obviously a very silly argument.

  62. Did you know that Jehovah’s Witnesses had to wear Purple Triangles in Nazi concentration camps?

  63. DownWithThisSortOfThing

    16 Feb, 2012 - 8:47 am

    “Did you know that Jehovah’s Witnesses had to wear Purple Triangles in Nazi concentration camps?”
    .
    And your point is?
    .
    I’m not going to honor your previous diarrhea with a full response. You are clearly a silly dick who would rather believe a load of disprovable nonsense and support it with your own form of intellectual intolerance than have a rational conversation about it.
    .
    You claim that pointing out a widely accepted HISTORICAL and SCIENTIFIC fact is a “kind of sophistry” aimed against Jews. One of the most pathetic arguments to support a claim of racism that I have ever heard.
    .
    I will not be cowered into keeping my mouth shut and support blatant lies so as not to appear to be racist against people who are not even a race but religious converts from various Eastern European countries.
    .
    The cherry on top of your post was when you said races don’t exist. First you state that Jews are a race subject to racism and when an argument surfaces which contradicts your assertion you then claim that there are no races. Now that’s not even sophistry, just pure bullshit.

  64. Angrysoba, brought up as a Jehovah’s Witness, I knew the Witnesses were sent to the concentration camps. The purple triangles were never mentioned, though.

  65. DownWithThisSortOfThing, do read Angrysoba’s comments in full:
    .

    …just because races don’t exist it doesn’t mean that racism doesn’t exist […] If you go over to a number of what you might call “neo-con” websites you will find that exactly this kind of sophistry is used to explain away anti-Muslim prejudice with the explanation that as Islam is not a race it isn’t racist to be bigotted against Muslims.

    .
    Angrysoba, Mary’s comments haven’t read like support of Assad’s regime to me. Rather, she has highlighted propaganda against Assad’s regime. When the Homs death toll was revised sharply downward after the UNSC vote, she pointed this out and said “of course, any deaths are wrong” or something similar. Having a go over semicolons won’t win you any supporters either!
    .
    Jon, I think Angrysoba has a point. I expressed my disagreement with anti-Jewish comments a couple of days back. Polarisation itself is our enemy. War is supported by polarisation.

  66. Did you know that Jehovah’s Witnesses had to wear Purple Triangles in Nazi concentration camps?

    Yes, everyone knows this, because they learned it at school, ad nauseum. It is also used by consequetive generations as comparisson for vile and degrading behaviours.
    For how long will this persist? When will it be passee to tint the eyes of many with the same old brush stroke, continue to smear the next three generations with the same propaganda that existed during the Nuremberg cangaroo trials?
    Can you see german newspapers writing article after article about the bad treatment of kenians during the Mau Mau period, over the invention of the concentration camps by British Boors, or the torturing of POW’s?

    Open up any regional paper and you will find at least one article /week harking back to the good/bad old days when we fought the NAZI’s.
    Maybe its an expression of todays societal pangs, too many Nazi’s about allround, some of them, who have never changed being NAZI’s are arch Zionists, doing as was done to them, but hey, who would give a flying f..k here in the UK, its parties and vital actions are controlled by them.

  67. @Clark – thanks – I probably agree more with Angry more than my comment indicated. I thought of striking the Jewish comment out when he initially raised it, but once something gets discussed at length, a lot of conversations would have to be struck out, and we try not to do that sort of thing here…
    .
    @Angry, you are quite correct about the existence of racism of all kinds, including anti-Jewish racism. It is fine to raise it, although I still maintain that it not having been challenged in the space of 10 posts in not evidence of widespread anti-Jewish sentiment. I agree that people such as Mark take a different view on Iran (etc) but that’s fine – that’s the point of this board. I sense I take a position somewhere between the two of you ;)
    .
    Anyway, your input is missed. If you start commenting again, then according to your measures, the balance of sanity here will be restored!
    .
    @All, as an aside: I tend not to refer to ‘anti-semitism’, as I feel it elevates one kind of racism above the others. I think all racism is equally abominable. I do strike it out if I encounter it quickly enough, but sometimes an equally good response is to challenge people on their preconceptions.

  68. > Did you know that Jehovah’s Witnesses had to wear Purple Triangles in Nazi
    > concentration camps?”
    .
    Actually, I didn’t – interesting (I am in danger of spending the afternoon on Wikipedia, rather than working!).

  69. Did you know that eleven million Iranians died of starvation and cold, because the allied soldiers crossing Iran on their way to reach the Russian front had sequestrated the food, fuel and the transport infrastructures, leaving very little to nothing for the Iranians’ consumption?
    ,
    Certainly a myth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    ,
    Ingo,
    ,
    The History Hitler Channel would have had difficulties in providing any kind of scheduled programming if it were not for WWII, in fact dare I say Murdoch would have had to start a war to fill in the programming gaps.
    ,
    Everyone ought to read the Shlomo Sand “The invention of Jewish people”, the misconstrued conflation of a religion with diverse group of people and call it a race is an unacceptable zionist ploy.
    ,

  70. FedUp: Did you know that eleven million Iranians died of starvation and cold, because the allied soldiers crossing Iran on their way to reach the Russian front had sequestrated the food, fuel and the transport infrastructures, leaving very little to nothing for the Iranians’ consumption?

    .
    This is a reference to British (and to some extent Russian) conduct in Persia in World War One. I have never heard figures as high as eleven million – do you have a source for that? – although two million is certainly credible and a matter of shameful and callous contempt by the British who were unconcerned by the plight of Persian farmers and made conduct of the war their sole priority. I think I read about this in Ervand Abrahamian’s History of Modern Iran but the figure of two million also came up in Tim Weiner’s Legacy of Ashes. It’s a staggering number. If your point is that these things deserve to be more widely known then I thoroughly agree. If you are making a more fatuous, posturing point about two wrongs cancelling each other out or some tu quoque nonsense then I’m not interested.
    .
    FedUp: Everyone ought to read the Shlomo Sand “The invention of Jewish people”, the misconstrued conflation of a religion with diverse group of people and call it a race is an unacceptable zionist ploy.

    .
    I think Shlomo Sand is right; there is no such race as Jews; there is no such thing as race.

  71. Angrysoba,
    Eleven million Iranians deaths has been documented in the Iranian records, however due to the ex Shah’s imperatives these documents have been buried in the archives and not much attention has been paid to these. However this matter has been referred to in the Iranian parliament, and the figure of eleven million has gone on the parliamentary records, resulting in a working party to investigate the “lost” records.
    ,
    Unjust death of one human being is one death too many, considering the gargantuan numbers ……………. far beyond the tolerance of any sane human being.
    ,
    However, the simple fact that this near genocide is only coming to light now, itself is an indication of deference even after death.
    ,
    Finally given that the concept of race does not exist, and is an arbitrary construct designed to exploit a target group that is considered as an underclass, why do you raise the subject of “anti semitism”?
    ,
    PS not being nasty in any way, note that I have even refrained from using my favourite term ziof….
    ,

  72. AngrySoba wrote:
    “I do read the posts and comments from time to time but the consensus here seems to be turning into a kind of black mass of Chicken Little, Doom Porn, Conspiracy Theory, False Flags and general all round pessimism that nuance is frankly impotent against.”
    .
    .
    What on Earth are you talking about? I’ve hardly posted a thing here in months!

  73. Finally given that the concept of race does not exist, and is an arbitrary construct designed to exploit a target group that is considered as an underclass, why do you raise the subject of “anti semitism”?

    .
    Because anti-semitism is a case of attacking a particular target group.
    .
    Eleven million Iranians deaths has been documented in the Iranian records, however due to the ex Shah’s imperatives these documents have been buried in the archives and not much attention has been paid to these. However this matter has been referred to in the Iranian parliament, and the figure of eleven million has gone on the parliamentary records, resulting in a working party to investigate the “lost” records.

    .
    Then I would be very interested in finding out more about these records and any scholarly sources that exist on this subject. I mean this sincerely.
    .
    Glenn_UK: What on Earth are you talking about? I’ve hardly posted a thing here in months!

    .
    Well, you should be flattered by the plethora of imitators. ;)

  74. Ingo: Yes, everyone knows this, because they learned it at school, ad nauseum. It is also used by consequetive generations as comparisson for vile and degrading behaviours.
    For how long will this persist? When will it be passee to tint the eyes of many with the same old brush stroke, continue to smear the next three generations with the same propaganda that existed during the Nuremberg cangaroo trials?

    .
    It’s now demonstrably untrue that everyone knows (or knew) about the purple triangles. But I think you misunderstand the purpose of my mentioning the example. It came because Downwiththissortofthing seemed to be making a point about persecuting people on religious grounds is no different to persecuting other religions such as, his example, Jehovah’s Witnesses. I pointed out that Jehovah’s Witnesses have suffered very severe and brutal discrimination in the past and it makes no difference if Jehovah’s Witnesses are a race or not.
    . True, it is sometimes pointed out that religions are choices whereas “races” are not. But in practice this is less realistic than such a clear-cut distinction suggests.
    .
    Also, the Nuremberg Trials shouldn’t be called a Kangaroo Court. I would agree with calling them “show trials” in the sense that the Western Powers wanted to demonstrate their cause in WWII was righteous and their foe was evil but this doesn’t mean that the trial was a farce. In fact, some of the defendents were acquitted, such as Hjalmar Schacht, Admiral Donitz etc…
    .
    Can you see german newspapers writing article after article about the bad treatment of kenians during the Mau Mau period, over the invention of the concentration camps by British Boors, or the torturing of POW’s?

    .
    It was the British who put the Boers in concentration camps. Although I suppose there could be another meaning by saying that British Boors invented them.

  75. It is a simple matter to find a source.
    .
    Review
    Majd brings the Persian famine, an issue that in the past has received very little attention, to the forefront. Middle East Journal Majd brings the Persian famine, an issue that in the past has received very little attention, to the forefront. Middle East Journal
    .
    Product Description
    As many as eight to ten million Persians perished because of starvation and disease during the famine of 1917-1919, making it the greatest calamity in Persia’s history. In this book, Mohammad Gholi Majd argues that Persia was the greatest victim of World War One and also the victim of possibly the worst genocide of the twentieth century. Using U.S. State Department records, as well as Persian and British sources, Majd describes and documents a veritable holocaust about which practically nothing has been written. It is the first book in Majd’s World War I trilogy.
    .
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Great-Famine-Genocide-Persia-1917-1919/dp/0761826335

  76. Well spotted Craig. Still, shouldn’t be too hard on Frank Gardner. Do you expect him to find out facts for himself and then report them? That might require going to his laptop and reading reports from Human Rights Groups and others on what is actually going on Bahrain, or talking to different experts on Bahrain, or even him having to travel around the capital of Bahrain talking to protesters. Why should he go and do any research or work at all when he can simply repeat what the Foreign Secretary or a government press officer has told him and his bosses are happy?

    and if he started routinely taking a different line from the government and bringing up all the facts that might embarass them enough that he’d go the way of Andrew Gilligan

  77. Mary: It is a simple matter to find a source.

    .
    Yes, it is. But it is also a simple matter to find sources that contradict those claims.
    .
    Last night I looked up the subject of the famine again in Ervand Abrahamian’s book and I again found the number of two million deaths for that period. On top of that, Abrahamian suggests that there were many other factors involved in those deaths and not just British requisitioning of the food. While British actions clearly played a part and are to be condemned, the post-war influenza pandemic was also seen as a big factor in the number of deaths.
    .
    As it happens, I emailed Professor Abrahamian himself, who replied to me that the British requisitioning could not possibly be as large a factor as that as the South Persia Rifles was a small group rather than millions who needed feeding. Prof. Abrahamian puts the majority of deaths down to bad harvests and pandemic and says that “nationalist” historians can be as free with the facts as imperialists.

  78. “nationalist” historians can be as free with the facts as imperialists.
    ,
    Does this also apply to the zionists historical narratives? If thus, why Finkelstein’s Holocaust Industry, somehow has not made any difference to the ziomatons and their hive mentality?

  79. Passerby: Does this also apply to the zionists historical narratives? If thus, why Finkelstein’s Holocaust Industry, somehow has not made any difference to the ziomatons and their hive mentality?

    .
    Tedious…tedious…

  80. The hate Arabs foster against Persians is not to do with sectarianism, but racial. So it is logical for Arabs and the west to become bedfellows as they are both engaged in racial hatred. The only stupid is the Arab who is bent of destroying his neighbours in the belief that he will be spared by his new found friends.

  81. Many people suffered under the third Reich, and not just in Germany. The atrocities committed to Roma, ‘degenerate’ artists such as Klimt, rebellious clergy, homosexuals and communists is known, it is a fact.

    Greece’s bailout is not just a German endeavor, the UK has contributed, as has France and Finland,etc. this is a European bailout. We can already hear the voices saying ‘Germany is walking away from it.’ once again a personification and perception is created that focuses on Germany, not the underlying basic issue that our system is unsustainable and failing, as is the EU.
    Greece was an add on, its public sector is spoiled and corrupt, and I can’t see any reason for defending an over bloated public sector in Greece, when one equally cheers on the cuts here, wants to get rid of a stuffily staffed bureaucracy, locally and nationally.
    To cut Greece loose is not the solution. Appointed commissioners are the problem, as is the lobbying and close relations with vested interests, the lack of internal reform and explicit fraud committed by most member countries, some more than others.

    The EU needs reforming for the better, this is not what it is and voters are not represented by the political mergers and coalition building processes, not to speak of the central political directions.

    Now I have made a point for more involvement, for getting right in there, shaping Europe, for our and others interest, rather than the moping from the sidelines Cameron delivered, he’s been eyeballed by right wingers, so he pulled himself out by his cravat, when its most important.

    Those who are accusing Germany have no legs to stand on, they ran away.
    Greece will have its debts canceled to some extends, but still has the same old inefficient services/public sector and an economy that relies on tourism and agricultural exports. International shipping is another important sector but not very lucrative. Greece’s upper echelons are rumored to have some 600billion Euro’s deposited in Swiss banks? I can’t see their nationalism and love for their country kicking in here, they are alright, Jack, and its the same class of people who will once again start ripping Greece off.
    Defaulting and accepting changes to their system, is the best that could have happened to Greece, because as it looks like, the police is paid by the crooks and the public are pants at changing their system in any other way. Now there is an impetus for change, now the public will have to make changes at political level and in services, and without default, its merely perpetuating the agony which is inevitable, who knows, not just for Greece.

  82. Goebbels, yes…there was another one on TV tonight, presenting Panorama. His name is Alasdair Campbell. Remember him? Remember who he worked for? Do you remember what his former employer did back in 2003?
    By rights, Mr Campbell should be awaiting trial in the Hague. He’s also popped up on C4 “satire” programme Ten O’Clock Live.
    Satire. Oh dear. And oh dear BBC for having him front a once-great current affairs programme.
    Gilligan was right.

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