Not Forgetting the al-Hillis

by craig on September 28, 2012 5:03 pm in Uncategorized

The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.

Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:

the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?

The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.

Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:

Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.

There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.

But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.

The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?

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21,109 Comments

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  1. One of the few articles which brought a human perspective to the situation was the following in the Guardian:

    “Alps shootings survivor’s return to UK offers ray of light in complex case” 2012-09-14 Lizzy Davies.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/14/alps-shootings-survivor-return-uk

  2. The Daily Mirror was against the war in Iraq. Does that make it a terrorist organisation too?

    O/T My Wikileaks tapes Thing2Thing (T2T)arrived yesterday. From what I’ve seen up to now worth every penny with John Pilger, Noam Chomsky, Daniel Ellsberg, Christine Assange(40 participants in all) and of course footage of the dreadful war-crimes the United States and NATO countries have inflicted on the poor people of the Middle East.

    http://thing2thing.com/?p=2693

    The other thing is your small contribution is helping to fund one of the few firewalls against US and Israeli-funded expansionism. You know what you should do.

  3. There’s a bbc radio documentary on I-player worth listening to.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01mx27j/The_Report_Annecy_Killings/

  4. Something occurs to me about the way that Mossad has been known to operate. If I remember correctly, Mordechai Vanunu was lured to Italy so that his abduction would not take place on British soil. This family were resident in Britain but were killed (I believe in a “professional” manner with two bullets to the head) in France, a country that since 1967 has been rather tougher with Israel than Britain has. Of course, from the assassin’s perspective, the deaths were “messed up” through the survival of two potential witnesses (and, perhaps, the death of a bystander), which isn’t that “professional”, but Mossad recently messed up the killing of Mahmoud al-Mabhouh in Dubai too.

  5. I should perhaps also say that if I were a Western country faced with the prospect of a few illegal assassinations vs. the prospect of yet another disastrous war in the Middle East, I might not try too hard to investigate the agency responsible.

  6. I’m going to post something in various UK and North America-based progressive Muslim groups on Facebook of which I am a member – I think we could do with someone fluent and literate in Arabic/someone familiar with the dynamics within the Iraqi British community. I’ll ask if anyone there has any thoughts on the matter. Let’s see. My appeal to Swedish people who have been commenting on the ‘Assange/Ardin’ thread did not result in any ‘crossover’; I’d hoped it might, wrt the Swedish media/narratives in relation to the grandmother. Not that such folk would necessarily know any more than the rest of us. But it’s another string to the collective bow.

  7. If they were in the habit of holidaying in France (which, as far as I know, they were), it would have been easy enough to plan.

  8. Scots Anorak, we don’t know yet who ordered the hit, nor do we know who did it. And I would argue that the assassinations of Iranian scientists by Israel actually makes war more, not less, likely.

    I see – some here may already know this – that there is a blog forum on the web called, ‘The Real Iraq – British Iraqi Forum’. Does anyone know who runs it? Might be worth asking people there what they think.

    britishiraqiforum.wordpress.com/2011/10/29/the-real-iraq/

  9. I spent at least half an hour watching the press conference in France by the police shortly after the killings. My first reaction was how casual and unconcerned the French police appeared. I say appeared, after all the police deal with tragedy all the time. Nevertheless they didn’t seem in a hurry, there were plenty of smiles. Perhaps this is just French cool.

  10. French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example

    the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
    yup doze frenchie fellas sure nose how to treat a crime scene.
    der raf lie in fella said der scene was gust like der movie and der telly : )
    der link bell low is not likes a filum crime scene

    http://www.france24.com/fr/files_fr/article/image/tuerie-chevaline-enquete.jpg

  11. straw44berry

    28 Sep, 2012 - 8:04 pm

    Saad joined Kingston wheelers in 1997 proving he’s been local for 15+ years and a very keen cyclist.

    http://www.kingstonwheelers.co.uk/kwccforum/viewtopic.php?t=8204&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=&sid=44f8be9d784fbd3e0a850bf829f2ea08

    Club runs are the leisurely outings each Sunday but not a race meeting every Sunday at 9am come rain or shine 40 miles +

    {http://www.kingstonwheelers.com/clubrun.shtml}

  12. quote
    There’s a bbc radio documentary on I-player worth listening to.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01mx27j/The_Report_Annecy_Killings/

    why wood yer do dat might as well get a press release from m16 as listen to der filthy
    lie in bbc.

    quote

    . Of course, from the assassin’s perspective, the deaths were “messed up” through the survival of two potential witnesses (and, perhaps, the death of a bystander).

    youse is smokin crack der fella.
    der bystander was a zirconium specialist from areva a corrupt bankrupt nuclear specialist.
    zirc rods important for iran and faulty ones probably used in fuckyuppyshima.

  13. @all

    Ref the DA notice question.

    CRYPTONYM posted the following on Thread I on Sept. 7th…

    I copied the few commments on the indymedia site, earlier, just after the DA-notice comment from ‘Manchester based Journalist’, but not including the comment of 15:12 quoted by Anon here, concerning General Yossi Ben Hanan (chief of defence at Paris Israeli embassy) picking up three unknown others in helicopter at Chambrey Airport (close to the scene).


    His company

    06.09.2012 13:36
    He was set up by Mi6 in 2007 in a front company called AMS1087 which did aircraft based photography. They were based at the Delta office park in Wiltshire which is built on part of the old ‘Turnstile’ nuclear Command and Control bunker and is still owned by the MoD. He was loaned RAF trainer aircraft at no cost to help him get established as well as pilots and because of these advantages his company originally thrived however once he started to visit Iran in late 2010 he lost a lot of (MoD supplied) private contracts and the business almost collapsed.

    It is interesting that they let him wander around France with no protection even though they knew he was an Israeli “sikul memukad” or high profile target. A deserted country road would have been ideal for the Israeli kill team sent after him.

    Looks like he either outlived his usefulness or went ‘rogue’


    Watching
    The cyclist who found the body was an RAF airman !!!

    06.09.2012 13:48
    What an amazing coincidence that the first person on the scene was a member of the RAF Regiment (the Air Force army branch) who just had to be passing on his bike !!!


    Ian
    British Embassy sends twenty person team to crime scene

    06.09.2012 14:05
    In an unprecedented action the British Embassy in Paris has sent a twenty person team to the crime scene headed by Kara Owen the deputy British ambassador. According to local TV station ‘Demain’ people describe the British Embassy staff as being “military type”.

    There is developing a cover up of massive proportions to protect Israel.


    Remember this day
    Looks like they were attempting to run

    06.09.2012 14:27
    The local police (before they were shut up) said that the family had multiple passports including British, Iraqi, Swedish and UAE. It seems they were travelling cross country perhaps back to Iraq where they would feel safe .


    Drudge
    Defence Advisory Notice is in effect here

    06.09.2012 14:41
    Today at 0750 we received information that a Defence Advisory Notice or ‘D Notice’ was in effect with regard to certain facts about this story.

    No mention of his links to the Security Services
    No mention of his links to Iran
    No mention of his links to nuclear weapons research
    No speculation regarding Israel involvement in the killing

    The only place you are going to read about the real facts of this story are on sites like Indymedia.

    Manchester based Journalist

  14. Notice that MOSSAD is actually fingered, the Kidon Hit Team is exposed by SIS via the DA notice, para 4

    Today at 0750 we received information that a Defence Advisory Notice or ‘D Notice’ was in effect with regard to certain facts about this story.

    1 No mention of his links to the Security Services

    2 No mention of his links to Iran

    3 No mention of his links to nuclear weapons research

    4 No speculation regarding Israel involvement in the killing.

  15. To spell it out:

    No speculation regarding Israel involvement in the killing

  16. Mark Golding – Children Of Iraq Association
    7 Sep, 2012 – 7:35 pm
    According to an Iraqi doctor who declined to be named, Saad Al-Hilli was working with British Intelligence agents trying to persuade Iraqi commanders to issue instructions to their forces in the field to surrender before the US-imposed 2003 deadline for President Saddam to leave the country expired. An attempt was made to isolate those in Saddam’s immediate circle in Baghdad and negate orders they would give to Iraqi commanders situated in bunkers elsewhere in Iraq.

  17. To spell it out

    Saad Al-Hilli was working with British Intelligence agents trying to persuade Iraqi commanders to issue instructions to their forces in the field to surrender.

  18. @Trowbridge H. Ford

    Seems to me that we have reached this point in our searches, but please correct me if I am wrong, or have left out something important:

    1. Al-Hilli could have helped Saddam in his hopes of still gaining nuclear weapons after the first Gulf War, making him most bitter after his ouster in the second one.

    2. Al-Hilli in meeting, marrying and having children with Iranian Suhaila al-Allaf became so committed to seeking revenge against the perpetrators of the Gulf Wars, especially because of the losses Iran had experienced through NRO-made earthquakes in keeping Tehran at bay during them, that he ultimately decided to spy for the Iranians, particularly because of paranoia about Israel’s role in the process.

    3. Al-Hilli’s work at SSTL gave him access to information and know-how about new miniature, radar satellites which would alert Tehran about the dangers its nuclear and weapons programs faced and what counter measures to adopt, and how it could catch up in the intelligence-gathering game.

    4. Unfortunately for him and the Iranians, the West learned of what he was up to, thanks to eavesdropping by America’s National Security Agency and its allies, and arranged for him and his whole family to be killed with help from France, Israel and the UK.

    5. France arranged for Sylvain Mollier to meet him, acting as if he were an emissary from Tehran so that he could make up for his past mistakes, while Tel Aviv got its Mossad kidon going for the kill, and loads of sayonim in action to explain away what happened – like in the David Kelly murder. Brett Martin was the Brits clean-up man to make sure that nothing got out of control during the cover-up.

    6. London sent enough messages about an apparent DA so that everyone knew to play it cool when it came to writing it up.

    7. STV’s Lars Borgnäs got the process started in Sweden, as he had done in the Anna Lindh assassination, by getting Säpo involved in a wild-goose hunt for crazy Haydar Thaher, Mrs. al.Hilli’s brother who was then incarcerated in an English mental hospital.

    8. The media in general was then too busily occupied with all kinds of predictions and stories about the final showdown by the West with Tehran to pay much attention.

    Conclusion: Case closed.

    =====
    Excellent summary! I’d go along with most of it.

    Kinda gets vague as to the hit though, a set-up or not.

    Could have been that SAH regularly had meets with Sylvain over the years, thus he felt safe.

    BUT, it was to be their last rendezvous. SAH may well have been going to do a flit after the meet, hence all the passports in the car, see the Manchester journalist stuff above.

    Kidon were waiting to take out both, and France nor the UK nor the USA would have been informed.

    The 3 would have nixed it as being far too risky.

    So I think Mossad went it alone and sprung a nasty surprise – remember, our SIS chief has been visiting BIBI twice recently, to get him on some serious valium.

    Why a nasty surprise? Because of panic stations, the 20 man team airlifted to Chaveline sur le Mort, and the slightly late DA notice, too late to stop initial accurate reports. See above from CRYPTONYM.

    OBOMBYA is refusing to even meet with BIBI, he has just been snubbed AGAIN.

    BIBI recently went apeshit and started screaming at the US ambassador.

    I think BIBI said to Mossad, “F%%k ‘em, let’s show them who’s boss!”…

  19. straw44berry

    28 Sep, 2012 - 8:20 pm

    Tony Roma,
    There is a chance that Sylvain was talking to, possibly about to talk to Saad when the first shots were fired in his back. Maybe from the thick bushes by the right handside of the car. Beyond the taped off crime scene area. Maybe go there now with a metal detector and find who knows what.

  20. name all-hilli
    country engerland
    satellite skyfall
    location peru

    all the old soldiers love poppies don’t ya know.
    helmand export for queen not so much for country

    http://picturepush.com/public/9382345

    http://picturepush.com/public/9383342

  21. DEFENSE ADVISORY NOTICE PARAGRAPH FOUR

    4. No speculation regarding Israel involvement in the killing.

    To spell it out:

    A four man Mossad Kidon hit team were responsible, at least two shooters using Berettas and their signature 7.65mm round.

    Panic stations in spookland UK – war on the horizon, Israel to be protected at all costs from adverse blowback which would sway the international community against them.

    Conclusion:

    Carpet.Under.Sweep.

    Case.Closed.

  22. straw44berry

    28 Sep, 2012 - 8:41 pm

    Useful table of facts and links can be found here:-

    http://something-stinks.com/al-Hillli%20Murders.htm

  23. Sorry, just posted this at the old 6000 Conundrum page.
    @anyone
    Did Jack mention the dentist wife ever? (the postman says they were a normal family, yet wasn’t sure there was a wife – that isn’t normal. no mention of children either)

    Good point about Marilyn too.

    Wonder who did the school (and perhaps nursery too) run?

    Finally, why was Ikbal Al-Saffar’s address listed at the accountant’s??
    Director check lists both Al-Hillis at 26 Oaken Lane, yet the same site for the same company, SHtech lists Al-Saffar chez Julian at 33 Foley Road. Why?
    http://company-director-check.co.uk/director/901903623

    also 915809170 and 907379577

    BtW, still had no time to listen, but did the R4 prog mention BM?? Same old stuff??

    Kingston Whs a serious racing outfit.

  24. The subject of the cryptic photo that Tony Roma posted above showing a background of poppies, the sort that are grown in Afghanistan.

    http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/person.asp?personId=9105472&privcapId=942357&previousCapId=50176777&previousTitle=3Roam%20SA

    So many jobs, so many contacts.

    Queen’s Jubilee Honours List 2002
    CBE
    John Richard Forrest. For services to the Radio and Communications Industry. (London, SW10)

  25. “DEFENSE ADVISORY NOTICE PARAGRAPH FOUR

    4. No speculation regarding Israel involvement in the killing.

    To spell it out:

    A four man Mossad Kidon hit team were responsible, at least two shooters using Berettas and their signature 7.65mm round.”

    Same old conspiracy rubbish. This from the Mirror 9 days after this alleged DA notice was supposedly issued.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/french-alps-shooting-islamic-rants-1326315

    French police have said a single weapon was used and that it was a Luger. The older daughter also said there was only one “badman”. Mossad don’t have a monopoly on 7.65mm ammunition or people who can shoot straight but hey, when did the facts ever get in the way of a good conspiracy?

  26. O/T Back home in a village in Palestine, last Friday. Note the length of time the two men were held with their wrists bound with plastic ties, left in the sun and manhandled. Note too the words of the Israeli soldier and the future for the Palestinian men.

    Please send the appeal.

    Arbitrary Arrest of Kufr Qeddoum activists
    http://www.palestinematters.com/Arbitrary-Arrest-of-Kufr-Qeddoum-activists_Appeal_89.aspx

    This was just one such incident in the village which is near Nablus. Others are reported here. {http://electronicintifada.net/tags/kufr-qaddoum}

  27. @Mary
    Mary very interesting info. The Bio about Forrest He was working during at the time of the strange deaths of the engineers and scientists .He joined Marconi Defence Systems in 1984 and served as its Technical Director, Vice President of Technology and Director of Engineering from 1986 to 1991.List of deaths at Marconi.

    http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389×3238877

  28. willyrobinson

    29 Sep, 2012 - 12:01 am

    @Craig
    Nicely written. We’ll never know the answers, but maybe we’ll have a good idea when we’re being lied to. The final paragraph is fantastic.

  29. French police have said a single weapon was used and that it was a Luger. The older daughter also said there was only one “badman”. Mossad don’t have a monopoly on 7.65mm ammunition or people who can shoot straight but hey, when did the facts ever get in the way of a good conspiracy?

    =====
    Kempe desperately tries to “diss” the DA notice that was published at many sites after the Mossad Kidon team hit.

    The French police sourcrd have actually named several weapons as possibilities, and the number of spent catridges found has varied widely.

    I am so pleased that you place your faith in the French police.

    Fact is, they are not taking this seriously all.

    No photos of victims.

    No TV shows.

    No appeals for information from the public.

    No CCTV footage.

    No roadblocks.

    The crime scene opened immediately to a pack of reporters, contaminating everything.

    Oops, the crime scene then CLOSED again.

    Can’t make their minds up?

    OK.

    And NOW, opened again.

    [Jon/Mod: deleted off-topic paragraph, please keep contributions civil]

  30. @dave l

    g during at the time of the strange deaths of the engineers and scientists .He joined Marconi Defence Systems in 1984 and served as its Technical Director, Vice President of Technology and Director of Engineering from

    =====
    Very nice find.

    Sounds like another Peter Power, who was running an identical tube/bus/rail drill during the 7/7 bombings.

    A similar drill was running during the Madrid and 911 false flags.

    They always keep the same modus operandi, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

  31. Craig: You don’t suppose that influence from deep connections to the Torygraph, from the rabid Zionist Barbara Amiel, together with her disgraced husband and jailbird Conrad Black, could have anything to do with such flowery praise bestowed on this bunch of murderers?

    Now bad people simply have to be “put down”, we know Zionists and the Amerikans understand this very well. And there is a most unfortunate – and regretted, very much regretted – cost of these imperatives when it comes to innocent bystanders. But how innocent could they really be, after all, if they’re in the vicinity of known evildoers? Nevertheless, we should take our hats off to the Mossad agents, ehem, whoever was tasked to do the killing, if they carried out the job while doing the Absolute Minimum Harm, particularly to small children.

  32. Oh insults again. How clever.

    You still haven’t explained how if a DA notice was issued on the 6th the Daily Mirror and others were able to safely ignore it on the 15th. The only source for this DA notice existing at all are sites like IndyMedia and frankly if they told me it was raining I’d go outside and check.

    I have already mentioned the poor reputation the French police have. Had this crime been committed in the UK they’d have sealed off the area and not moved the car for days. Their failings in this respect cannot be taken as evidence of any conspiracy; it’s simply that they are incompetent.

    Although it can’t be ruled out altogether there is not one shred of solid evidence that this was a Mossad “hit”. Speculation, wishful thinking and gut feeling do not constitute evidence.

  33. @Anders
    But there has been some MSM speculation re. Mossad e.g. the BBC R4 piece mentioned that this is a theory.

  34. Yesterday, you may want to check this out as well:

    {http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/09/the-al-hilli-conundrum/comment-page-33/#comment-365807}

  35. straw44berry

    29 Sep, 2012 - 7:04 am

    On the old craig thread JAMES who is a pilot has had a ‘Eureka’ moment. There were pointers towards Saads other companies and those passed down to him by his late father.

    He found them in DXB as James who is a pilot calls it. DXB is Dubai International Airport and Saad has companies and a second seperate life there.

    He changed his locks on his Claygate house because I think he is now seperated from his wife, why there is no evidence of her there. she must live nearby but seperately.

    All Saad’s money is in the Dubai life.

    Whether this means he was offed I still believe he asked for a way out of this split life from the British government and they extracted him so he could live that other life in full.

  36. A good start about explaining away the conspiracy murders, but still just a start.

    I have complained about the lack of any serious coverage in Sweden on a news-blog site, The Local, when two of the victims are apparently Swedish, only to be chased off it by a barrage of personal abuse. Still I managed to get some of my essential information on the discussion thread.

    But there was no follow-up by any of its media when my residence here is most well-known.

    There wasn’t any even here after I brought leading Swedish TV investigator Lars Borgnäs and Svenska Dagbladet’s Peter Carlberg into the matter by speaking of their role in the cover up Meir Dagan’s murder of Swedish Foreign Minister Anna Lindh.

    And I have complained similarly to Dagens Nyheter’s Bo Andersson and Anders Hellberg about other conspiracies but without any result.

    I have found talking to the media even about the spooks setting me up for murder, or as ‘Jihad Jane’s aka Colleen LaRose’s lover/assassin of Swedish cartoonist Lars Vilks a complete waste of time. The spooks themselves don’t even bother to listen.

    The Lindh murder was accomplished by making Mijailo Mijailovic into a druggie Manchurian Candidate, and ordering him around to be in a position of kill her, and then his hearing ‘voices’ to do it – what he was ultimately obliged to deny so that he could get better treatment.

    I have tried several times to get in touch with Borgnås now but he isn’t answering the phone at 530-361-09.

    And Britain isn’t any better, as even a respectable paper like The Guardian, refuses to even post my request for a discussion of the murders in France.

    When I go to post such a request, the spot for the message has this written in red ink: Your comments are being premoderated. Then when I mail it, this message appears also in red: Your comment is being moderated. Then nothing appears on the discussion thread of possible ones, and the comment section just goes blank.

    As for any discussion of murders of a conspiratorial nature, whether single or mass ones, they are only mentioned as such in the Western media, just to dismiss them as more loony nonsence.

    Until posters get real about what is really happening – whether it be about Dr. David Kelly, Royal Cadet Stephen Hilder, and Swedish statsminister Olof Palme, or mass killings like that of the 29 military and civilian intelligenc officers on that Chinook helicopter back in 1994, or in France recently – nothing in solving the conspiracies will be accomplished, so we might as well forget about the victims because it will all be seriously forgotten.

  37. @Snap
    Lizzie Davies…“According to police sources quoted by AFP and a French television station….”
    Another stenographer at work. Not even first hand “security sources”.

    There is so much abnormal in this case,perhaps someone might light to list the normalties.

    One witness lacking credibility who has given one and only one account. Lots of security and police sources. Another witness who may or may not exist. A speeding car fleeing an otherwise deserted road,allegedly (to draw attention to itself, of course). Hardly any photos, bodies and children moving around unobserved, no interest in Sweden, a bizarre funeral in France, and a lot of journalists (until the DA notice) with no questions whatsoever. Move along now please.

    Psy-op. Extraction.

  38. straw44berry

    29 Sep, 2012 - 7:33 am

    THF,

    Saad’s other life in Dubai, I am struggling to find his companies there but James says they are easy to find.

    Help

  39. straw44berry

    29 Sep, 2012 - 7:40 am

    Felix please see James Dubai info re SAH on the other thread.

  40. Round and round the garden….

    This is the BBC’s latest attempt to add to the false trail.

    French Alps murders: Victim had money worries over home
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19729566

  41. @ kempe.
    Someone murdered those people.

    It is no different to all the avoidable deaths mostly from our foreign policies.

    You know as Britain is the epicentre of this tyranny mostly the city and Lords.
    The best way to change things would be a peaceful uprising over .hear.

  42. Now thats funny if not futile.

    Sad thing is I am right. We are mostly sex obsessed and dont care one bit outside of the world it has created.

  43. @Straw
    Thanks – just catching up. I have also posted there for you. Katie onto it in a flash.
    This is not a normal family.
    All the police activity was at no 26. Might it not have been useful (assuming the police want to solve this case,whatever the case is…) for them to search the accountant’s house ,seizing documents, to try to get to the bottom of SAH’s affairs??

  44. straw44berry

    29 Sep, 2012 - 8:15 am

    Felix,
    Google search these 2 and note the addresses:

    915809170

    907379577

    Where does Iqbal live? Reading?

    Swindon??

    see this map

    http://scotlandyard.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/al-hilli-caravan-travel-route.html

  45. O/T

    ‘West behind Press TV reporter murder’

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZETx8L2Eq1c&feature=relmfu

    Nothing on the lamestream mainstream media about the death of this reporter in Syria apart from one from an Australian news network. The dead man was a Syrian national and was killed by sniper attack.

  46. @Straw – too much speculation there.

    Al-Hilli General Trading Co, Dubai? Website under construction, IP location San Antonio Texas. Perhaps not. Hey, I know a web designer in West Sussex who might be able to help….

    BTW, (Telegraph, Sept 7)
    He met his wife, Iqbal, in Dubai about 10 years ago and they started a “great love affair”, one neighbour said. Which neighbour? The helpful Mr Saltman??

  47. Here is a post closer to home when it comes to murder, and let’s see what The Guardian does to my premoderated and moderated message:

    Bo Xilai was a most unsuspected traitor until Oxford astrophysicist Professor Steve Rawlings started talking too candidly to Chinese colleagues about who businessman Neil Heywood really was, given his involvement in finding places for his son, and his association with Heywood’s relative, fellow astrophysicist Dr. Ian Heywood.

    Thanks to the Rawlings info, the Ministry of State Security was soon onto Heywood, and the next thing was he was poisoned to death by Bo’s wife Gu and others.

    Then Rawlings, who suspected that friend and don at St. Johns College Dr. Devinder Sivia had some involvement in the mysterious death of fellow don Dr. Gudrun Loftus, was allegedly accidentally killed after a dinner at its Great Hall when the discussion about the College got hot and heavy.

    While the corrupt TVP and its coroner ruled the death an unfortunate accident, Chinese securocrats knew what really had happened, and then zeroed in on Gu and Bo.

    They are still willing to use some kind of legal proceedings, though, while the British just resort to murder.

    If the Chinese had not figured out what Heywood was arranging, China would be now in a most precarious position – one which could have led to its overthrow the next time the Pentagon hit it with a devastating disaster, like it did back in May 2008 with the Sichuan earthquake.

    The Americans are convinced that disasters can pave to way to regime change in China, Iran, Pakistan and Syria.

  48. straw44berry

    29 Sep, 2012 - 9:22 am

    Thanks Felix,
    ok the penny has dropped now, postman says he was always doing up BMWs. Dubai
    New Car Dealers

    http://www.mycarpoint.com/autoservices/details?id=310

  49. @Trowbridge.
    .
    Forgive my ignorance, but just what was Heywood arranging?

  50. For Bo Xilai to take over from Hu Jintao as President, and with a group of corrupt cronies as his underlings.

    For details, consult Sir John Sawers at MI6.

    And while you are at it, ask him what really happened to not only Loftus and Rawlings, but also Gareth Williams where it all started.

  51. ‘The older daughter also said there was only one “badman”.’

    That doesn’t mean there WAS only one badman, it means she only SAW one badman.

  52. Ok, radio 4 programme…. [Ref @A Visitor, 5.56 pm and on previous thread]
    Simon Day interviews Paul Ducher, @2.14, a farmer at the bottom of the Combe D’Ire. He regurgitates the well known story. Funnily enough, Lizzy Davies [op cit] also catches up with M. Ducher. He tells her no such thing. Just a vacuous throw-away.
    In the immediate aftermath, locals were shocked and, understandably, concerned for their own safety. “I thought it was a guy who wanted to let rip,” said Paul Ducher, a farmer mucking out his cowshed in Chevaline.

    And Simon Day merely replays the one and only outpouring by witness Brett Martin. Why no new interview by BM???

    To be continued…

  53. When considering whether or not the reported DA notice actually exists, it’s important to note its exact wording:

    1. No mention of his links to the Security Services
    2. No mention of his links to Iran
    3. No mention of his links to nuclear weapons research
    4. No speculation regarding Israel involvement in the killing

    Note that the phrase “no mention” is used in items 1, 2 and 3, while the phrase “no speculation” is used in item 4.

    This is a key difference.

    Seeing as “no mention” is used in items 1, 2, and 3, and not with item 4, we can assume that mention of item 4 is allowed, but not speculation (otherwise they would have specifically prohibited it as they did with items 1, 2, and 3).

    Now, if we look at what’s been reported in the media, we can see that there has, in fact, been absolutely no mention in the mainstream media of items 1, 2, and 3.

    And, while there has been mention of item 4 (Israeli involvement) there has been no speculation about it:

    - The Daily Mirror quotes Gary Aked as suspecting Mossad (quoted both directly and indirectly)

    - The BBC Radio 4 programme mentions that people writing on the internet are fingering Mossad.

    Both of these are direct and accurate reportage of what people are actually saying or writing, and cannot by any stretch of the imagination be construed as “speculation”.

    There is no follow up discussion or debate about these claims in either article.

    And as we know, it is only speculation about Israeli involvement which is prohibited by the DA notice, while mention of Israeli involvement is allowed.

    So, either the reported DA notice is in fact real, or its writer has a strangely prophetic gift, as the DA notice has been carried out to the letter across all mainstream media.

  54. @ Trowbridge The link to your website does not work??? Can you assist?
    http://codshit.com;http//flyingcuttlefish.wordpress.com/tag/trowbridge-h-ford/

  55. Oh, surprise, surprise, The Guardian did not post my post about traitor Bo Xilai.

    Just says that another post will be premoderated.

    Do you think I should risk one about Megan Stammers, flying home with her mother?

  56. Glad to, Mary.

    The two links have been connected, so just remove the ; between them or delete one, so you just have the other.

    Neither of them are mine, though. They are just run by senisible bloggers in the UK and the States who think that my work deserves an airing.

    And I think, of course, that my articles about recent assassinations, especially in the UK, are in a class by themselves, but then I am just a big-headed old fart.

  57. Dr Acula, as Private Eye call Dr David Owen, now ennobled, misses the point. He says Blair lacks self knowledge. Actually Bliar is a psychopath and a war criminal and the more he is talked about in the terms Owen uses, the greater the likelihood that Bliar will succeed in his own rehabilitation in the public’s mind.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2210164/Hubris-man-thinks-judged-God.html

  58. Thanks Jackie and Trowbridge for the links. Much appreciated.

    I had to break off just now as the doorbell went and the dog barked. A very crestfallen market researcher has just gone away as I refused to answer his poll for Ipsos Mori as to my political opinions, what I read, what my hobbies are, my income etc etc., What a nerve! He asked me why I would not participate. A ‘Because it is an invasion of my privacy and the information I give you might be added to that already held by HMG, Lockheed Martin who did the Census for HMG, and a complete picture could be obtained etc’ I think he thought I was a crazy old woman.

    http://www.ipsos-mori.com/aboutus/seniorstaff.aspx Enough said. I cannot see who owns it.

  59. Wikipedia Ipsos Mori

    Ipsos is one of the largest survey research organisations in the world, with offices in more than 80 countries, founded in the mid 1970s in France by Didier Truchot and Jean Marc Lech.

    In 1946, Mark Abrams formed a market Research company called RSL, which operated until 1991 when it was acquired by Ipsos, becoming Ipsos UK. MORI (Market & Opinion Research International) was founded in 1969 by Robert Worcester, and throughout its existence was the largest independent research organisation in the United Kingdom. MORI was bought by Ipsos in 2005 for £88 million, the combined company being now known as ‘Ipsos MORI’.[5] The same year, Robert Worcester stepped down from chairmanship of MORI.[6] Ben Page is now Chief Executive.[7]

    In 2006, Ipsos MORI were the first research agency in the world to gain ISO 20252, the new international quality standard for research. Ipsos MORI is a current member of the Market Research Society and are obliged to conduct surveys according to their rules. *For example, Ipsos holds the data they collect in the strictest confidence and ensure it isn’t passed on to third parties.* (**Oh yeah? Me)

    The French outfit IPSOS

    http://www.ipsos.com/Board_of_Directors

  60. Mary,

    The PressTV reporter was killed while on air or just after being cut-off (audio only by telephone). Sudden comms problems and then shot. Wonder if he was actively jammed.

    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/09/26/263608/press-tv-correspondent-killed-in-syria/

  61. Mary,

    Interesting you had Ipsos MORI at the door. They were at my door a week or so ago. I didn’t participate. I’ve not had a visit from Ipsos MORI any time previously that I can recall and certainly not in the last ten years or so.

    Wonder if any other posters are getting visits from “Ipsos MORI”?

  62. Blair thinks anyone can make a comeback after GW managed to get re-elected in 2004 despite the complete cockup in Iraq.

    Blair had even gone to bed, thinking he was going to lose hands down, only to be stunned when he won.

  63. The subject I was discussing at the time of my Ipsos MORI visit was the al-Hilli murders in a previous thread. I commented in the thread about it at the time and “jokingly” suggested other posters should be alert for visits from Ipsos MORI. Still I’d like to think it is just a coincidence. Can never be sure though. Especially if any of the wilder speculation about the case has any truth in it.

  64. Not Mori, I had the Red Cross last Saturday didnt call at others in my block.

    Didnt buzz the intercom – sent them away with a flea in their ear

  65. You still haven’t explained how if a DA notice was issued on the 6th the Daily Mirror and others were able to safely ignore it on the 15th.

    =====
    It’s an AVISORY you dimbulb! Of course one or two brave outlets will timidly stick their heads above the parapet, eventually. Much of this is damage limitation, to mollify the peanut gallery. In no way shape or form has ANY msm outlet done an in-depth article and mentioned the shhhhhh (Mossad) word. Most of the public have forgotten about the massacre and moved on. If it had been a WHITE UK family, like the McCann’s for example, it would have been WW3 in the press.

    Where is Gardening Leave when we need him?

    Where is Davies, the author of all the Mossad books?

    Carry on.

  66. Anders what do you make of SAH being seperated?

  67. @Anders
    But there has been some MSM speculation re. Mossad e.g. the BBC R4 piece mentioned that this is a theory.

    =====
    Damage limitation and look how long it took? Too little, too late.

    The overriding image firmly planted in the public’s mind is was that SAH was a terrorist, helicopter footage and live streaming for a day as the army bomb squad examined the man’s potted plants in the shed. All the rags pushing the lone nutter theory, and the mental case family relative, and that SAH was hurting for money, and had low level non-nuke jobs, and there was an inheritance dispute.

    Tons of smears from the media, not a word about Mossad, who have cold bloodedly been murdering hundreds of Arab scientists over the years, HUNDREDS.

    And prime suspect number one, RAFman ™, with literally blood on his hands, and a FAIRYTALE ™ story made up down the pub on the back of a fag packet, is given diplomatic immunity, as good as.

    Pull the other one.

  68. Right Anders – and thanks for all your help in pushing my claims – but where were the rest of us when Dr. Kelly was murdered while a kidon was being allowed by MI5 to operate in the UK, and four still unknown persons spent the night on a boat, moored on the Thames quite close to where Louise Holmes and her dog Brock found his body?

    Are people still expecting a possible kidon, walking around Annecy on that fatal day with a sign, stating: “Here it is!”

  69. Anders what do you make of SAH being seperated?

    =====
    Hi Straw, I’ not changing my position from Thread II.

    I will post it later, gotta run to see the Arsenal game! If Dubai fits, it also FITZ ™ my theory!

    Great work BTW!

    A

  70. “The overriding image firmly planted in the public’s mind is was that SAH was a terrorist.”

    Really? You quite sure about that? The bomb squad were only there for an hour and didn’t find anything, seems it was just the police over-reacting.

    I think the main reason for there being little attention given to the alleged Mossad involvement is that there isn’t any real evidence to support it. Anyway we’ve had a nice salacious story of fruity schoolgirl running off with her teacher and an air crash which make much better copy than a stalled murder investigation.

  71. I agree Kempe, repeatedly I’ve said I thought AH was a ‘pacifist’.

    That is also my theory as to why he’s been killed, he would not comply OR it’s an old score being settled.

  72. “The overriding image firmly planted in the public’s mind is was that SAH was a terrorist.”

    Really? You quite sure about that? The bomb squad were only there for an hour and didn’t find anything, seems it was just the police over-reacting.

    =====
    I was watching it on SKY in realtime and the coverage dominated a whole day, ditto the BBC, ditto all the smear jobs in the Daily Mail and so on.

    This all went on for many says, painting the dark skins as well dodgy.

    Only forums like this flushed out RAFman ™ with his pack of lies.

    [Mod/Jon - removed some more suggestions of 'forum sliding' - off topic]

  73. Ben Franklin

    29 Sep, 2012 - 4:10 pm

    It’s not preposterous to consider Mossad screwed up and left two witnesses. The bicyclist led me to believe he was a victim of damage control. Leaving the two children behind leaves me doubtful, but I will wait for more. There are far stranger events which remain mysterious. Nakoula is still being held for possible parole violation. He is a three-striker, and if he walks I suspect Federal intervention.

  74. No Anders I shall post what I want when I want.
    Carry on.

  75. Mr Al Hilli was involved in the false flag chemical weapons ‘opereation’ in Syria, which will be used by NATO to justify removing Syrian air defences in order that Israel may over-fly and attack Iran. He was helping to modify predator drones to disperse chemical weapons and was also spying for the Russians.

    The West is actively trying to remove Russian and Chinese satellite reconnaissance for fear of being presented with evidence of their crime at the UN. Anyone can do the research and join the dots.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2207180/Huge-fireballs-shoot-night-sky-spectacular-meteor-shower—turns-probably-space-junk-falling-Earth.html

  76. From the Mail article…

    “Dr Tim O’Brien, associate director of the Jodrell Bank Observatory, told the BBC it was probably ‘orbital debris from satellites.

    ‘[The object was] probably 80 miles up or so, high up, moving very fast, actually, 18,000 miles an hour, probably, at least.’”

    The exact profile of a typical spy satellite orbit.

  77. Ben Franklin

    29 Sep, 2012 - 5:17 pm

    “The exact profile of a typical spy satellite orbit.”

    Sabotage? Any other links, even those with just suppositions?

  78. ‘Oh, and Hans Blix is now scurrying to explain why in his recent UN testimony he failed to mention Iraq’s possession of predator “drone” aircraft (a handy way to disperse chemical weapons on our troops).’

    The Oi Vay gang speaking in 2003.

    The Zionists never like letting a good lie go to waste and seem to take extra delight in recycling old lies.
    http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0303/ingraham031103.asp

  79. “‘[The object was] probably 80 miles up or so, high up, moving very fast, actually, 18,000 miles an hour, probably, at least.’”

    The exact profile of a typical spy satellite orbit.”

    Eighty miles doesn’t even qualify as a low earth orbit. The amount of space junk in low earth orbit, 19,000 items at the last count, far outnumbers the number of spy satellites. The odds are it was space debris.

  80. Right Anders – and thanks for all your help in pushing my claims – but where were the rest of us when Dr. Kelly was murdered while a kidon was being allowed by MI5 to operate in the UK, and four still unknown persons spent the night on a boat, moored on the Thames quite close to where Louise Holmes and her dog Brock found his body?

    =====
    At Trowbridge

    I followed the Diana hit job very closely for years

    Have all the obscure books plus Norman bakers’s

    Whose conclusion of an Iraqi hit team is rubbish

    I was on the main yahoo group for year’s

    Now morphed into 10 doctors surgeons taking on the establishment and getting nowhere

    Plus other groups

    I’ve spread the world, all I can do at the moment

  81. “Only forums like this flushed out RAFman ™ with his pack of lies.”

    Only in your dreams. If he was in on the plot why did he leave the little girl alive?

  82. Saad Al Hilli’s “best friend” Gary Aked works at ATK as Senior Engineer. ATK have a satellite called ViviSat which can de-orbit other satellites, it’s on their web page at http://www.atk.com under “products”.

  83. “I think the main reason for there being little attention given to the alleged Mossad involvement is that there isn’t any real evidence to support it.”

    Yes, that could be. Although they were my first suspects.

    “Only forums like this flushed out RAFman ™ with his pack of lies.”

    Anders, you have no evidence whatsoever for a “pack of lies”. Lots of discussion of nose-twitching and eye-blinking on the other thread – that’s all.

    “No more forum sliding will be tolerated.”
    “Mods please make sure this abusive behaviour desists forthwith.”

    Oh shut up, Anders. You don’t run anything here. You’re entitled to an opinion like everyone else, but that’s all.

  84. Ben Franklin

    29 Sep, 2012 - 5:39 pm

    http://www.vivisat.com/?page_id=10

    Vivasat is designed to service satellites, so I guess the capability of bringing down a satellite with a decaying orbit would be among those services.

    What would you suppose the connection to Aked, suggests?

  85. Gary Aked works as a senior engineer at WS Atkins plc, which has nothing whatsoever to do with satellites.

  86. Why is everyone getting so excited about satellites when even the EU uses them to spy on farms ?

  87. Mary (12 ‘pm’, 29.9.12) we are all “crazy old women” now. Good on you.

  88. Ben Franklin

    29 Sep, 2012 - 6:23 pm

    Greetings, Suhayl.

  89. @trowbridge

    g allowed by MI5 to operate in the UK, and four still unknown persons spent the night on a boat, moored on the Thames quite close to where Louise Holmes and her dog Brock found his body?

    =====
    The local plod that very morning were running a mysteriously called OPERATION MASON

    Lots of spooky figured all around

    In the woods

    Those people you mention by the river

    It all smacks of the peter power drills the morning of the london 7/7 bombings

    The Drills on 911 when real air controllers were told the bizarro movements of four large planes were ” just a drill”

    Same MO all the time…

    Trad the norman baker book on Kelly

    It’s goog

    But he bootlegs it I’m the conclusion by blaming an Iraq hit team
    Did it

    A load of old cobblers and Jewish baker has had two more juicy promotions

    Case.closed.

  90. norfolkeagle

    29 Sep, 2012 - 7:10 pm

    is the general consensus that “RAFman” Brett Martin was involved or not? His Linkedin profile is pubic and lists the companies he works for, his RAF days seem to be well over.

  91. “You were nowhere to be see on either threads.”

    I read every word. I couldn’t be arsed commenting since you spent all of your time making smart remarks about the contributions of others, while contributing virtually nothing yourself (other than copying and pasting the contributions of yet more others, from other forums). Stop behaving like you’re the only one who knows anything on the Al Hilli subject. Or “spooks” in general. It’s become tiresome and very, very boring.

    Comprenski?

  92. I’m not aware that there is any general consensus on “RAFman” Brett Martin. Other than the one Anders is pushing to create.

  93. “Then we have bizzaro moderation” — Anders007

    I saw no bizarro moderation. You were given a hell of a lot of freedom by the mods, and you ignored them when they (once in a blue moon) tried to rein you in. Now you’re trying to dictate moderation here. I’ve had more than enough of you.

  94. Ben Franklin

    29 Sep, 2012 - 7:50 pm

  95. Iran have problems with sabotage of their nuclear program. Among the sabotage is zirconium of low quality, and spareparts with explosives that can be activated through satellite-emitted signals. This is from a newly published article:

    “Iran displays ‘proof’ of western sabotage
    Exhibition for local media presents faulty equipment, weapons Islamic Republic claims Israel, US and other western countries used in efforts to sabotage its nuclear progress
    —–

    Iranian news site Khabar Online reported that the exhibition included equipment from “several prominent factories in Germany, the United States, Romania, Ukraine, China, South Korea and Australia. The devices could stop functioning or explode at a specific time.”

    According to the report, “some of the pieces had an intelligent processor stashed inside to disable them through satellite-emitted signals.”

    Among the equipment on display was a zirconium powder and metal used in nuclear reactors as a protective layer for fuel rods. The Iranians claim they received a powder with 25% instead of 65% which could sabotage the uranium enrichment process.

    An intelligence source at the exhibition said that since the end of 2009 “the sabotage against our nuclear and energy facilities has increased and in recent months has been carried out in against our petrol, gas, communications, nuclear and defense sectors.”

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4286162,00.html

  96. Ben Franklin

    29 Sep, 2012 - 8:37 pm

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2012/09/201292916631790143.html

    “Hundreds of Libyans turned over their weapons at collection points in Tripoli, the capital, and the eastern city of Benghazi, following rallies which called for disarmament and the disbanding of militias.

    A steady trickle of men surrendered their weapons to national army troops stationed in Tripoli’s Martyrs Square and in Benghazi’s Freedom Square on Saturday. There were also weapon collections in Zintan and Yefrin.

    “We are astonished by the positive turnout,” said Colonel Hussein Abdullah Khalifa in Tripoli, adding that the initiative was galvanised by anti-militia rallies pressing for a united army held in Libya’s two largest cities this month.

    Tripoli campaign organiser Ziad Hadia told AFP news agency that “more than 100 people had turned in light, medium and heavy weapons as well as ammunition ranging from bullets to tank shells” in the first half of the day.

    “We also received three heat-seeking missiles,” he added, while one person had come forward with a tank which is to be delivered to the army later at an undisclosed location.

  97. Re William Brett Martin (ex RAF man)
    One of the questions yet to be answered is how he was cleared so quickly of any involvement – as if he had been vouched for – before full forensic testing results would have been obtained, and let leave the country quite soon after the murders. It was said initially that he called the emergency services but then it turned out that another man (Philippe Didierjean) actually made the call. It would be interesting to know the method of Martin’s return to the UK.

    Another question that has not been adequately answered is why the regional forensics team in Lyon (100kms/1hour away) were not sent for. Instead a team for Paris were called and due to some ‘mix up’ they were delayed in getting to the scene. This is one of the reasons why the four-year-old was not found in the rear of the car (if one is convinced that that is what actually happened).

  98. כל הפעילים לחוט השני

  99. “It would be interesting to know the method of Martin’s return to the UK”.

    Plane….or car.
    Walking would be rubbish.

  100. @James 29 Sep, 2012 – 8:59 pm
    Very droll.

    What I mean is, did he book a ticket on a commercial flight? Was he brought to Paris, debriefed, and sent across on a helicopter? Did the embassy fly him home or did he have to make his own way?

    I would have thought he’d have been asked to stick around for a few weeks and leave his passport with the Gendarmerie.

  101. Flanders7835.3

    I thought you said “goodbye” to this website ?
    You had a big speech and everything.
    I even baked a cake.
    You left mainly because everyone worked out you were bonkers and had bipolar

    But now you’re back !

    Was it the “website” you left…or just that “thread” ?
    I get confused with you, you see !

  102. straw44berry

    29 Sep, 2012 - 9:22 pm

    I think Anders is excused as somenone said they were missing him quite quickly. In my head I thought it was you James, sorry if I’m mistaken.

  103. “SO SHIT OR GET OFF THE POT NUID” — Anders007

    Calm down. Quit shouting.
    You say all I posted was “2899 3976 4988 5903″. That’s a lie.
    I posted a summary of what I thought had probably happened, and said I thought ‘some people’ were making it unnecessarily complicated. (Ring a bell?)

    “Then break down how many of my answers were cut and pastes”

    Your “answers” were for the most part sneers and sarcasm at other posters and constant references to HARD DATA™ — although I saw none of it coming from you.

    You’re a pain in the neck.

    @Mossad
    אתה צריך לקרוא את שני חוטים ארוכים שלמים כדי להתעדכן כאן, חבר

  104. Straw….

    I do like his “rants”. It makes me giggle.
    I’m just waiting on emails now from friends that maybe able to help
    …so just chilling.

    Can’t wait for 7777985 decimal 4 to start a rant.

    CMON Flanders….give it to em !

  105. straw44berry

    29 Sep, 2012 - 9:33 pm

    James,
    Do you still have any further thoughts from your Eureka moment triggered by Mr Postman?

  106. @Anders, I’ve removed a couple of posts from you in this thread, which are again dominating/derailing the conversation, even though you’re new here. Again, please refrain from abusive language, and focus on the topic.

  107. Nuid, I don’t what’s gotten your fuse lit tonight, but IMO Anders is quite right, and Jon is completely clueless by allowing it to continue. Topic dilution and forum sliding are just as abusive as any other form of trolling and he’s allowed it to continue unabated, which seriously detracts from the quality of the thread.

    Look, for a quick example: immediately after Ben Franklin replies to my post about ViviSat, the satellite which is operated by ATK (Gary Aked’s employer) which can take down other satellites, Peter immediately posts his ridiculous claim that “Gary Aked works as a senior engineer at WS Atkins plc, which has nothing whatsoever to do with satellites”, which Katie follows up with her clueless “why is everyone getting so excited about satellites when even the EU uses them to spy on farms?”

    I won’t bother to comment on Katie’s post as nobody can really be that clueless, but Peter’s is more sly because it’s half-believable, especially as WS Atkins’ ticker symbol on the stock exchange is “ATK”. The problem is that Peter has made this fatuous claim previously on the other thread and has refused repeated requests to publish any proof (of which there is none). On the other hand, Gary Aked’s LinkedIn profile lists his employer as ATK, which is pretty clear, don’t you think? I can’t imagine anyone listing their employer by it’s ticker symbol. Would you? It’s just preposterous, it would confuse everybody so the very idea is ridiculous.

    Peter, your credibility is completely blown and nothing you say on here should be believed, ever again.

    And Katie, anyone who believes you are really that stupid is, well… even more stupid than you pretend to be!

    So it would be nice if the mods just once would pick these “people” up and say “post your proof or shut up” – and then delete the offending comments.

    It’s fine by me to post speculation – but disinformation should be weeded out and the repeat offenders banned for abuse. There are plenty of places on the internet people can post bullshit for free so please don’t even start complaining about the right to free speech etc, this isn’t about that, it’s about stopping people deliberately abusing this thread and stopping genuine researchers from finding stuff out.

  108. Nuid, to be fair you did participate a lot at the beginning of the other thread but your participation of late has been restricted to the kinds of posts Anders is mentioning. No point fighting about it though. The point is that “people” like Peter and Katie have been driving us mad with their incessant nonsense (stupidity coupled with wrong information is a powerful combination)! And yesterday James had us all going off to Dubai for something so momentous he dare not post the info… but now can’t come up with any hard data to back it up… which was rather a distraction, IMO… Maybe that was just a mistake but just sayin…

  109. straw44berry

    29 Sep, 2012 - 9:45 pm

    Ferret,
    Saad’s father left his business in Iraq in 1978 and did what then?

  110. “it’s about stopping people deliberately abusing this thread”

    I’m all for that. But as far as I’m concerned, the person who was doing most of the “abusing” on previous al Hilli threads was Anders007. There will be people coming on here who haven’t read all of the previous two threads, won’t even know of their existence perhaps, and they can’t be allowed to suffer ‘Anders’ abuse, just because they’re less informed.

    I do not like people jumping on others who disagree with them, and labelling them trolls, or worse, paid trolls.

  111. HOWEVER… all of this is distracting us from the business at hand — other than perhaps pointing out to any newcomers that not everyone here can be trusted, and that various tactics are employed to throw genuine researchers off the scent.

    Who could do worse than read, for example, our trusty old friend “The Gentleman’s Guide To Forum Spies (spooks, feds, etc.)” at http://pastebin.com/irj4Fyd5

    PS. Watch Peter and Katie lay into me now to try to discredit me and try and make me out to be a liar, loony, whatever. That doesn’t matter though because it’s not about me, it’s about getting to the truth. And as always, trust no one and do your own research, check all the sources and draw your own conclusions. Don’t believe anyone, including me…

  112. @Kempe
    If he was in on the plot why did he leave the little girl alive?
    Tosh/disinformation of the highest grade.
    BM’s weird one-off performance on BBC shouts out fairy-tale to me.
    In on the plot? Clearly yes. Doesn’t mean he pulls a trigger. Moreover I am not persuaded anybody has been shot. In fact, only Brett Martin puts himself at the scene. (I don’t believe Philippe D exists) BM’s strange online holiday business and why he happened to be there without his family just doesn’t stack up for me. If he was there at all.
    It’s all about getting the official narrative out there double quick. I also don’t believe that Brett Martin was meant to be outed publicly. Now he is in the public domain, what’s to stop him appearing again? The stupid “ex-RAF man line” was a suicide note for the official narrative. Who wrote the script?? They want shooting.

  113. Ben Franklin

    29 Sep, 2012 - 9:56 pm

    Ferret; I duly note you didn’t respond to my question, but instead chose to be derailed onto a similar question, challenging your assertion, which assertion you repeated above. I certainly don’t get upset when responses are not forthcoming, as I’ve learned such things don’t matter in the long run. FWIW.

  114. straw44berry

    29 Sep, 2012 - 9:58 pm

    We all have opinions of others that have posted regularly and that builds up over time. Yes sometimes you need to wear earplugs when Anders is at his loudest or a fast-forward when Katie or Kenneth sometimes get going. But at other times they say relevant things and get on to a subject that they know a great deal about.
    The blog needs all sorts and when the ingredients are right progress is made. When the wrong people are mixed together all we get is a smokescreen.

    A blog on your own is no good to any of us. So we all need to be a little tolerant but also not let the blog degenerate into farce.

  115. “Nuid, to be fair you did participate a lot at the beginning of the other thread” — Ferret

    Yes, I did. And then I stopped. As I couldn’t take Anders egotistical bullying. Posting the numbers of comments was simply to indicate that I was still reading. And then I gave that up too.

  116. @Straw

    AFAIK he didn’t have to work, he was wealthy enough not to have to. Can’t remember where I read that now though.

    @Nuid

    I can see your point. In counterbalance, I would say two things, the first is that *generally* Anders only jumps on people who are being quite deliberately “distracting”, but there have been one or two occasions where I’ve thought he has jumped on someone who was just “new”, rather than being deliberately obtuse. But I think that’s par for the course and goes hand in hand with taking on the powers-that-be who must be at least *monitoring* thread quite intently (more on that in the next post) if not actively taking part.

    As a newcomer to a forum such as this, part of the attraction was Anders’s battles with those he termed “the spooks” and trying to work out if this was real or delusional. I’m quite certain now which way I feel about this and it’s been quite an education finding out.

  117. @Ben

    Please be patient, I will answer your question. As you say, I got derailed – one of my weaknesses…

    My phone died as I was replying to you late this afternoon, and now that I’m back online I just thought “first things first”!

  118. Hey there Ferret !

    Why is Dubai mad ? Anyway, I have posted “why it isn’t” on the proper thread.

    But I will ask you the questions.

    Where did Saad meet his wife ? On holiday ? How did he date her ? Skype ?
    Why don’t the accounts from 2001 to 2006 add up for a hotshot contractor?
    What date did he join (not start) AMS1087 ? (everyone thinks its his !)?
    Why did the CIA (allegedly) veto the closure of the consulate in Dubai ?

    There is more….

  119. @Ben (again)

    … and yes, thanks – I can see your point, sometimes it’s better just to ignore it. But it’s been going on for soooo loong… it’s getting ridiculous!

    :-)

    @Everyone

    While I’m on the subject of the powers-that-be at least listening in here…

    Remember the hideously stiltedness of Brett Martin’s TV interview, where he says he first saw a young girl (Zainab) stumbling around, “as if playing with a sibling”?

    Remember how many of us here commented on how odd this sounded, and how it was clear he was lying, making it up, etc, etc?

    Well, surprise surprise, this was edited out of the BBC’s radio programme. That’s right, airbrushed right out of the interview, which was otherwise verbatim! (Or, he re-recorded it for them without the incriminating statement.)

    At least they are paying attention…

    (If you’re new here and wondering why MI5 would be paying any attention to this blog at all, recent stats say it’s the third most influential political blog in the UK, so they’d be mad to ignore it.)

  120. Why didn’t the postman know him ?
    Why did he change the locks of the house “he lived in” ?
    How do you date a dentist when you’re only on 20K ? (and she’s in Dubai) ??

  121. As a person interested in this subject who has not got involved in any of the acrimony could I just ask everyone just to stay on topic – say you disagree, propose a theory based on available facts AND MOVE ON.

  122. @James

    I didn’t say Dubai is mad, just there’s no evidence (perhaps yet), and last night you backed off from telling us the most momentous news ever, claiming it was so shocking that revealing it might leave you in peril, leaving us all in suspenders (suspense?), and now apparently there’s nothing?

  123. @Ferret – I’ll try not to be clueless in my response :)

    Moderation on internet sites, in general, is not undertaken for the purposes of sifting out right from wrong. If that were the policy here, everyone would have to fit in with my views and opinions, which wouldn’t be particularly democratic! No, the purpose of moderation here is to (a) delete automated spam, (b) delete obvious racism, (c) break up fights, (d) discourage thread dominating. I don’t always get it right, but on the old thread this policy allowed good discussion to flourish, imo.

    FWIW, we delete very little here normally, but in the Conundrum thread, I deleted over 500 contributions of abuse/accusation/counter-accusation of who is a shill/disinfo/spook/Zionist/CIA. That is unprecedented here, and I don’t like doing it – but it needs to be done to allow everyone a chance to be heard.

  124. @ James

    “Why didn’t the postman know him ?”

    I read in one news report that the postman said “he was a very pleasant man”.

  125. and last night you backed off from telling us the most momentous news ever

    No…I was about to point out somethings about living in Dubai.
    …and I have to still go there.

    I do not want to put my career “on the line”.
    If…and it is an “if” something does get confirmed, I do not want anyone confirming it was me that mentioned something about Dubai.

  126. @Ben

    http://www.vivisat.com/?page_id=10

    Vivasat is designed to service satellites, so I guess the capability of bringing down a satellite with a decaying orbit would be among those services.

    There is no doubt about it… check out http://www.vivisat.com/?page_id=14 where it says “services include … de-orbiting satellites”.

    BTW, vivisat services also include “rendezvous and docking”… does this suggest satellite-napping as a possibility too? I don’t know enough about it but I would’ve thought that if you have (or had) something like the space shuttle then I suppose you could nick someone else’s satellite and return it safely to earth, couldn’t you?

    What would you suppose the connection to Aked, suggests?

    I don’t know, but it’s certainly open to interpretation, isn’t it?

  127. Good point, CD, thanks.

    Now, we’ve had definite analyses of info. which might lead us in the direction of attributing this ‘hit’ to firstly, a group or groups within/of Iraq and now, more recently, via James, possibly to an Iranian-related provenance. Both seem credible and logically argued/explored. However, I would suggest caution. Remember Norman Baker’s investigation of the David Kelly’s death? I think Baker may have been led off track by sources unknown to his readers. We do not seem to have had any sources or armchair (armchair – that’s me, folks!) research that might lead us to Israel as perpetrator. I’m not saying that we ought to, or that I’d rather we did, nor am I casting any aspersions on anyone (as Nuid wrote in her very first post on the anaconda thread), we’re mostly thrashing around in the dark. I’m simply making a point.

    I posted on three Facebook pages relating to groups of progressive Muslims – let’s see if I get any response.

  128. Kathy

    “Why didn’t the postman know him ?”

    You tell me. I don’t know.
    I find it an odd phrase….as though he wasn’t there that long.

    I don’t believe he was. Nor do I think the “postie” is a “spook”.

  129. @Ben

    Vivasat is designed to service satellites, so I guess the capability of bringing down a satellite with a decaying orbit would be among those services.

    There is no doubt about it… check out http://www.vivisat.com/?page_id=14 where it says “services include [...] de-orbiting satellites”.

    BTW, vivisat services also include “rendezvous and docking”… does this suggest satellite-napping as a possibility too? I don’t know enough about it but I would’ve thought that if you have (or had) something like the space shuttle then I suppose you could nick someone else’s satellite and return it safely to earth, couldn’t you?

    What would you suppose the connection to Aked, suggests?

    I don’t know, but it’s certainly open to interpretation, isn’t it?

  130. @ James

    No, I wasn’t asking you. I was quoting you.

    I read in one news report that the postman said “he was a very pleasant man”.

  131. Here’s one…

    Remember the now “famous” “Gary and Saad” picture.
    Who was moving whom ?

  132. >>>>>>Previous thread closed.
    A bit about “witness” (BBC R4 prog) Paul Ducher
    FFCT – french cycle touring federation:
    LISE DUCHER

    RTE DE LA COMBE D IRE
    74210 CHEVALINE Email : paul.ducher@orange.fr
    Téléphone : +33(0)626826131

    amazing cycling co-incidence!!

    very keen cyclists — what’s the chance of that in the middle of nowhere.
    Lise Ducher is secretary of the Velo Club Doussard
    http://doussard-veloclub.over-blog.com/2-categorie-11933563.html

    I wonder if Brett Martin joined them?

  133. Anders89638 decimal 5 at 10.23pm

    GO FLANDERS GO… give it to ‘em boy.
    Thwack away.

    More. More… MORE.

  134. “Saad Al Hilli’s “best friend” Gary Aked works at ATK as Senior Engineer. ATK have a satellite called ViviSat which can de-orbit other satellites, ”

    So what? How is that significant? I have a friend who got a PhD developing stuff for mobile phones, it doesn’t mean I have an extensive knowledge of mobile phones. Even if Aked does work for ATK they are a huge company so it doesn’t necessarily mean he has anything to do with their satellite work. On top of that there is more than one ATK as a simple search would reveal including an ATK in Surrey which paves driveways.

  135. Kathy..

    Just for you…

    http://vimeo.com/48947088

  136. Suhayl, I think the Iraqi +/ Iranian theories rest on assumed or unproven family and political links on both the al-Hilli and al-Jaffar sides of the family. Even if those family links and political connections (some historical) are proven they would not necessarily rule out Mossad culpability, direct or indirect. In fact it is plausible that anyone might have falsely implicated the family in actions that would have been considered a threat by Mossad who might have acted on the information.

  137. …continued from 10.24 (awaiting mod)…
    http://fr.netlog.com/paulducher

    Paul Ducher?? Combe D’Ire = Cote D’Ivoire??

  138. James, at 10:16pm, I understand your caution. But this is a highly public forum, with thousands of readers, esp., according to Craig Murray, of these Al-Hilli threads. We are all – even those who use pseudonyms – completely traceable anyway by those who might want to trace us. They know where we are, they can analyse all our e-mails, ‘phone-calls, everything. They can even pretend to be someone we know.

    Craig Murray announced on a recent post that he was directly addressing MI5 and the cops, telling them that he knows they follow his movements wrt Assange and informing them of those movements in a very public manner.

    If they watch him, they most definitely are watching his blog and looking at many of us contributors (the third most notable political blog in the UK), esp. those of us who post often/a lot/regularly. As a ‘Muslim British’ (or whatever) writer who has worked with (though not as an employee of) the British Council, BBC, etc., I fully expect somewhere, there will be a dossier on me – indeed, I would be somewhat disappointed if there weren’t! My views are open. I completely understand, though, James that not everyone can (afford to be, or maybe I should say, ‘need to be’) be so open and that job security is a major issue. I – and I’m sure many others – do appreciate your input here. Thanks.

  139. @Jon

    FWIW, we delete very little here normally, but in the Conundrum thread, I deleted over 500 contributions of abuse/accusation/counter-accusation of who is a shill/disinfo/spook/Zionist/CIA. That is unprecedented here, and I don’t like doing it – but it needs to be done to allow everyone a chance to be heard.

    I appreciate that you have to prevent all out fights on the thread, and that everyone should get a chance to be heard, that is only right and fair.

    The problem is that people who deliberately engage in meaningless and repetitive conversations that go on and on, and round and round, or who deliberately post baseless, false information, are drowning out other voices that want to be heard, and that’s exactly what Anders and I are complaining about.

    You take action against one side, but not the other, which allows their “distraction” tactics to flourish.

    I request (as did Anders yesterday) that if you are going to take action, you take action on both sides of the fence, to even up the score.

    Please, at least consider this request and let it roll around for a while.

    Thank you – and I do appreciate you do have a very hard job to do.

  140. “Tosh/disinformation of the highest grade.”

    Why is it “tosh/disinformation of the highest grade”? What evidence have you got that it’s “tosh/disinformation” apart from the fact that it’s what you want to believe.

  141. Felix,
    There are cycle routes in that Doussard cycle club. Perhaps a route – the new route that Sylvain was trying for the first time

  142. Suhayl.

    Again I agree with you. A voice of reason.
    It is however not the “Brits” I worry about.

    Nor is it anybody else. It just can make life “harder”.

    Try landing in “Mad Cow” with your visa in your other passport that away getting it’s Chinese one…

    Or going to the States…after being in Cuba

    …or landing in DXB…and there’s a problem.

    You get 4 bars….for being able to being able to do things right, not because you can drive a metal tube !

  143. @Kempe

    Hilarious!

    :-D

    … a simple search would reveal including an ATK in Surrey which paves driveways.

    Yeah, that’d be “ATK Drives & Patios”.

    LOL

    I leave it to the reader to decide if (a) if a driveway paving company would need the services of a “Senior Engineer”, and (b) if they did, would the Senior Engineer be dumb enough to put their employer down as “ATK” on their LinkedIn profile when that would link them with a major international arms company?!?

    Truly, you insult our intelligence (and I think knowingly).

    However, I have done a full search on all companies called ATK in the UK and there are none that fit the bill, and are in/around Guildford.

    There can be no mistake. Gary Aked works for ATK.

    Next disinfo attempt?

  144. He didnt pay “big Tom” at the patio firm !
    20 x 30…and he only paid for 10 x 6. SHOOT HIM !!!!

  145. @Ferret – thanks. I’ll be as even handed as I can, as ever – but I can’t take action against people “who deliberately post baseless, false information”, since that requires me to be the arbiter of right and wrong. See above for my response on that :)

    FWIW, if a reader thinks that someone is contributing bad info deliberately, they may engage/disagree with said contributor with reason, debate and civility. Abusiveness and caps lock just gets said reader onto mod radar.

  146. @Q

    Thanks for the link (on the other thread, last night) to SSTL’s latest satellite launch.

    exactView-1 separated from the Soyuz launch vehicle’s Fregat upper stage in low Earth orbit approximately 2 1/2 hours after launch. SSTL has since established communications with the satellite in its of 817km sun synchronous orbit from SSTL’s Guildford mission control centre and is receiving telemetry and commanding the spacecraft.

    http://www.sstl.co.uk/news-and-events?story=2049

  147. @Jon

    Erm…”mod radar”. Is that “MODDAR” !
    Is that what you need when entering MoD air space !

  148. @James

    OK, I understand now. Fair enough.

  149. James, heh – that sounds like a security clearance category they probably wouldn’t trust me with!

    “But guv’nor, I got an honest face, see?” (me points for the benefit of spooky types)

  150. Ferret.

    Thanks for understanding it. It’s my job..and I don’ get paid for writing here.

    Going to my questions at 10.06 and 10.09 ? regards your comments.
    What do you think ?

  151. @ James

    Thanks for the link but unfortunately I’ve got no sound at the moment.

  152. @Jon…

    It’s sounds more like…. it’s no fun waiting at “Mad Cow” for your visa…in minus 10, with no APU on !

  153. @ kempe

    The ATK Gary Aked states on Linkedin is his employer employs over 10,000 people (stated on Linkedin) – I rather think this excludes a local paving company, don’t you?

  154. @Jon

    ..and what does the “MODDAR” do when “Ander666″ turns on the CapLocks !!

  155. One reason for refurbishing cars is to weld in voids or compartments for smuggling stuff. The color separation pics of SAH’s BMW show it had been repainted, particularly the hood / bonnet.

  156. @all

    I am quite willing to slap the BAALLZ or GONADZ ™
    Of those transgressors- YOU KNOYBHOW YOUVARE!

  157. The other thing is.

    Mrs saad was “studying” to be a dentist.
    I understand she was already one in Dubaishire.
    So that would be “a conversion” maybe ? Or an “update” ?
    So she had never worked in the U.K. since she came to the U.K.

  158. Apologies for fake Chinese iPhone Walmart SPELLINK – online get it for 11.09 plus 199.98 del

  159. @ James 11.09

    She was training at a dentist in Baker Street.

  160. My theory is beautiful in its simplicity.

    It works 3 ways .,,

    1. Mossad Kidon Team of 4 have a clue

    2. SIS Extractiom team of 1 no clue at all

    3. FAIRYTALE ™ covers both 1 and 2

    I am 99.99 pc it is Mossaf

    Extraction is a possibility, but so badly executed, backfires.

  161. @Peter

    You are wrong – Mossad do, in fact, use 7.65mm in their Kidon “kill” teams, as previously stated, and here’s the evidence:

    Beretta 7.65mm pistol with silencer

    Italian Beretta pistols are often used by Mossad. The small Beretta is easy to conceal and can be loaded with reduced-charge cartridges in order to increase the effectiveness of the silencer. This adaptation of a Beretta Model 70 was issued to members of Mossad’s assassination teams (known as kidon).

    Page 178, “The Ultimate Spy” by H Keith Melton, Pub Dorling Kindersley Ltd, 1 Oct 2009

    Interestingly, on the previous page of the same book:

    The French Secret Service

    Formerly known as the SDECE, the French secret service was reconstituted in 1981 and called the DGSE.

    [...]

    Manurhin 7.65mm. This 7.65mm Manurhin pistol is a favourite weapon of the DGSE.

    Now that’s interesting…

  162. Re AMS 1087.

    I see on webcheck that its original registered addres (changed in 2002) was 11 Devizes Road SN1 4BH. I may be wrong but this seems to be a flat.

    Googling that address led me to a company called Access Management Systems Ltd, also registered at that Devizes Road address, or at some point. One of its directors is a James John Scharff. I think this company is dissolved now, can’t remember.

    Anyway, another of James Scharff’s companies is Access Management Solutions Ltd. It specialises in security – mostly I think door locking solutions. It has a website if anyone wants to look.

    James Scharff is also an accountant…not linked to AMS Accountancy at the same business park as AMS1087 that I can see, but there seems a common theme to make me wonder.

    James is also down as a speaker at the “Counter Terror Expo 2013″.

    Anyway, it could all be nothing but coincidence, but considering the AMS initials of this company, and them having links to that same Devizes Road address I thought it worth a mention.

  163. Kathy…

    “She was training at a dentist in Baker Street”

    IS RUBBISH !

    You just don’t “start” at a practice ….and train to be a dentist.
    It is quite a hell of a course. Infact why do I bother.
    You just check out how you do it !
    Or pop down to your local dentist…and say “can I start training”.
    Then watch him/her start laughing.

    You seem to have no idea how life works, if you don’t mind me saying.

  164. James

    Training to pass her exams to convert her degree to a British one.

  165. @ James

    Do I have to spell everything out?

  166. Kathy…

    “She was training at a dentist in Baker Street”

    Is incorrect. So yes… as I believe Anders has you pinned down.
    You “state” bizarre things. Why I have no idea.

  167. James

    Well it is quite obvious that since she already has a degree in dentistry from Baghdad, it would be training to work in UK. You cannot get a degree by just working in a dentist.

    Anders has never said a bad word about me. I think you are confusing me with Katie who he has said plenty about.

    Anyway, I was just helpfully replying to your question. Wish I hadn’t bothered now.

  168. Kathy

    I ask
    Mrs saad was “studying” to be a dentist.
    I understand she was already one in Dubaishire.
    So that would be “a conversion” maybe ? Or an “update” ?
    So she had never worked in the U.K. since she came to the U.K

    You answer
    She was training at a dentist in Baker Street”

    I say
    You just don’t “start” at a practice ….and train to be a dentist.

    You reply
    Training to pass her exams to convert her degree to a British one.

    And then you go on
    Do I have to spell everything out?

    Kathy…please ignore my post. I find you bizarre.
    I have no idea “what” you are or how old you are…but please, don’t read my posts (it’s easier that way).

  169. @Kathy with no sound

    Here’s a transcript of most of it:

    The first reporter (R1) is female, the second reporter (R2) is male. Postman is referred to below as PM. Third reporter (R3) is inaudible.

    R1: So how long have they been living here as far as you’re concerned, cos you’ve been working here how long?

    PM: I’ve been doing this round for about 7 years and I think he must’ve been living here for about 3, 4 years?

    R1: OK. And it was him, and mother and wife, sorry excuse me

    PM: Yeah wife, um, I think there was a wife in there I’m not quite 100% sure whether there was a wife in there but definitely him because he used to come out and say good morning and take his post

    R2: Do you know when they left for their holiday, do you know?

    PM: Um, I haven’t seen the caravan there for a couple of weeks now

    R2: A couple of weeks?

    PM: Yeah

    R1: Oh so they had a caravan did they

    PM: Yeah yeah

    R1: So that was always parked in the drive?

    PM: Yeah and the guy used to refurbish BMWs so he was always like going off in his BMWs to places and stuff so

    R3: (inaudible)

    PM: No, no they don’t very get really that much mail,

    R1: No?

    PM: … the occasional parcel, or occaional junk bit of mail, but that’s about it

  170. Kathy…

    “Well it is quite obvious that since she already has a degree in dentistry from Baghdad”

    Now why is that odd ????
    And where was the Mrs Saad from ????

    You’re just a very odd fruit. You are now quoting somebody else…as a way of “reference” to you ! Odd indeed.

  171. PM: … the occasional parcel, or occaional junk bit of mail, but that’s about it

    So where was the rest of their mail going? Gas, electric, landline, mobile bills, council tax bills, credit card bills, birthday cards, doctor/hospital appointment cards/letts, solicitors letters, DVLA road tax renewal letters..etc etc

  172. James

    Don’t worry, I won’t reply to any more of your posts since you speak rubbish anyway.

  173. Ferret

    Thanks. Must get new speakers.

  174. @Dopey

    Things sometimes get stuck in the spam filter because of innocuous words that appear spam-related. Try posting that message in chunks?

    Re AMS, perhaps James Scharff is the accountant who set up all those myriad AMS 1234 companies?

    I suspect they’re all defence-related companies, hence the cover names – no one will ever guess from the name what’s going on under the hood, so to speak.

    And tons of defence work goes on around Swindon, it’s not far from Salisbury Plain, after all… there must be a ton of contractors who need suitable cover companies, and perhaps some of them really trade too (eg AMS 1087).

    Someone posted earlier (on the other thread I) that AMS stood for something else, though… what was it… Aerial something something. Is Access Management Solutions another take on the same acronym?

  175. Dopey…

    I would say “he wasn’t there” BUT he had to be there for at least three years.

    So where are the gas bills ?
    Where did the DVLA write to ?

    Maybe that was the “limited mail” he got.
    But the “postie” doesn’t look convinced that Mrs Saad was there ?

  176. @James @Kathy

    Slow down you two! What’s going on!?

    James, you do speak in riddles, it’s hard to know what’s what – please take time to explain.

    Kathy is OK, 100% kosher/halal so please don’t wind her up…

    I think you just got your wires crossed.

    And… did Mrs AH (AS) get her dentistry degree from Baghdad? I thought she was Iranian originally?

    I understood she was converting her qualification so she could work in the UK, that seems to be what you are both saying too?

  177. Ferret.

    AMS is the acc firm.
    AMS 1086, 1087, 1088, etc.
    I’ll try and find the links I had to that (thru DueDil).

    But you’d think they would have “given it a name” !
    He came in later…after it had been trading awhile…but still no name !

    Was it a business…or something that he did, that would raise less questions if it was the Co (1087) doing it ?

    Not “money” but physically doing ?

  178. @ Ferret

    As I understand it from the various new reports, she was born in Iran but grew up in Iraq. There is some confusion about where she took her degree but there was one Iraqi dentist spoke out about how they both graduated in dentistry in Baghdad. Sorry, I don’t have the links.

  179. @ Ferret

    Thanks for the testimonial too!

  180. @Dopey

    Well spotted re the lack of mail, that jumped out at me too.

    What the…???

    And what about the mail for his company (SHTech Ltd) too – that’s registered at the same address, isn’t it?

  181. Roland Teflon

    30 Sep, 2012 - 12:06 am

    @Kempe

    29 Sep, 2012 – 5:22 pm

    Space deris.

    If the fallen satellite highlighted by Drew, the one that fell on Peru in 2007; and this more recent satallite falling to earth are both reported as not satellites at all but meteors; if they were indeed space debris, then why put about the meteor cover story?

    Sorry if I´m a little behind in the thread but 5:22pm is where i am up to at the moment.

    @Ferret

    I saw your post appologising for something; don´t sweat it, it was really nothing. If my wrtiting is good feel free to repeat it and repeat it again if needs be.

  182. Ferret…

    I don’t want to sound like Anders…but Kathy (or is it Katie !) is just going round and round and round !

    And… did Mrs AH (AS) get her dentistry degree from Baghdad?
    I thought she was Iranian originally?

    Yep she was Iranian. I doubt she was at “Baghdad Uni” studying.

  183. This is the exam she must have been doing

    http://www.gdc-uk.org/Dentalprofessionals/ORE/Pages/default.aspx

  184. “And what about the mail for his company (SHTech Ltd) too – that’s registered at the same address, isn’t it?”

    Nope. It was. But it’s at the Acc’s address.
    Hence the press turning up there on day one.
    Must have been a shocker for ole Stedman …and his son !

  185. @Kathy

    Thanks – that clears it up.

    And, you’re welcome!

    :-)

    @James

    Not sure what you’re getting at… as above, I think the AMS 1234 companies are covers for defence contractors and companies so they can disguise their activities.

  186. Found it…

    Bluebird
    26 Sep, 2012 – 9:00 am
    @ferret

    AMS looks to me like a letterbox company. AMS means “aeronautic maintanance systems” according to a few of the other AMS companies.

    And now “Access Management Solutions”???

    WTF?

  187. @Roland

    Thanks!

    :-)

    And good point re the space debris… I was thinking, if it were commonplace, surely we’d see it all the time?

    The fact that we don’t, and then suddenly it’s a comet (and as you say same MO in Peru) is highly indicative.

  188. @ Ferret

    Here is the link to the report about Iqbal graduating in Baghdad:-

    http://www.itv.com/news/2012-09-13/alps-family-friend-wrong-place-at-the-wrong-time/

    Zaid Alabdi, a London-based dentist, believes his friends were never the intended victims. He believes the French cyclist, 40-year-old Sylvan Mollier, who was also killed could have been the focus of the gunman.

    Zaid, who was at dental school in Baghdad with Iqbal al-Hilli, believes the family were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    Mr Alabdi says he is the al-Hillis’ closest friend here in the UK.

  189. Have you seen the books at AMS sixty four twelvety !
    Why bother. Why bother putting your name to it.
    Lets face it, it’s hardly secret if it’s at Co House.

    On your theory, I bet there are more “samll” intel co’s called “T.Bryan & Sons (Glasgow) Ltd” than there are called “Armed Men Shooting” !

    Just a thought.

  190. @James

    OK that explains the lack of business post then, but not the lack of bills etc as we all noticed.

    Kathy’s not going round in circles, you (plural) just got your wires crossed and entered a tailspin together, with every post pushing he rudder still further the wrong way!

    Once the foot came off the rudder and pressed it the other way… hey presto, out of tailspin.

    :-)

    Comprende?

    Kathy also explained how come Mrs AH (AS) was born in Iran but studied Dentistry in Baghdad.

    Now I will look up the two questions you asked about, and also reply more fully to Ben…

  191. Maybe they paid all their bills by direct debit?

  192. Another weird “coincidence”.

    That Access Management Systems Lt company – its website (via cyclex website) is listed

    When you look at that website however this company pops up instead

    http://www.amsl.co.uk/

    This company seems to have no connection at all to the AMS ones however, but it does have cars for sale on it…and it creates software too.

    Its responsible for sofware called CALLAS. A link to follow about Callas.

  193. Ferret…

    It may explain the lack of biz post…but other post ?
    And what about her post ?

    And since you’re talking rudders…my grandfather had a tail spin once !
    His Messerschmitt crashed into The Channel !

    Ho Ho Ho !
    An old joke…but still makes me laugh…if you get to say it at a bar !

  194. Check this out

    http://www.wan-ifra.org/articles/2012/07/12/callas-software-launches-6th-generation-of-pdftoolbox

    …..in particular the mention about CALLAS and satellites.

  195. @James

    Re your qns

    10.06

    Where did Saad meet his wife ?

    Dubai DXB

    On holiday ? How did he date her ? Skype ?

    We don’t know but presumably he was there in person. My first thought was that it was an arranged introduction? He did leave it late to get married, so… maybe their families introduced them? Not out of the question.

    Why don’t the accounts from 2001 to 2006 add up for a hotshot contractor?

    That’s what we’re trying to work out. The innocent explanation is that he was independently wealthy (via Daddy) and didn’t need to work, which is quite likely IMO, and/or that part of his income was PAYE. Alternatively he may have been on a scam or earning outside the UK and paying tax on it here but that wouldn’t show on any company records, just his personal tax return. Phew!

    What date did he join (not start) AMS1087 ? (everyone thinks its his !)?

    I did think he started it but apparently not. When?

    Why did the CIA (allegedly) veto the closure of the consulate in Dubai ?

    No idea… and why is this relevant?

    There is more

    I’m listening…

    10.09

    Why didn’t the postman know him ?

    He did, said he’d been there 3, 4 years. Mrs AH he’d never seen though.

    Why did he change the locks of the house “he lived in” ?

    Already discussed, various possibilities. I changed mine the other month (year?) as we found out the locks were shit and got proper security ones. For example. Why do you think he did? Tenants moving out? It’s possible.

    How do you date a dentist when you’re only on 20K ? (and she’s in Dubai) ??

    As above. Might be sus, might not… but go on…

  196. @ kathy
    30 Sep, 2012 – 12:24 am

    They’d still get sent statements though.

  197. @Dopey

    Strange indeed…

    False alert about “satellites”, though, in this context they are defined as:

    “A satellite is basically a regular server that will process files, the dispatcher on the other hand is a server that doesn’t process files itself but instead receives files in its job folders and sends them to the satellites to have them processed.”

    So it’s a jargon computer term for a server…

  198. Roland Teflon

    30 Sep, 2012 - 12:35 am

    Kempe

    Are you still around? as I would like you to tell me more on dismissive “space debris” theory.

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