CIA Look to Swamp Correa

by craig on October 22, 2012 10:13 am in Uncategorized

About a month ago I asked a former colleague in the British Foreign and Commonwealth Office what Hague saw as the endgame in the Julian Assange asylum standoff, and where the room for negotiation lay. My friend was dismissive – the policy was simply to wait for the Presidential election in Ecuador in February. The United States and allies were confident that Correa will lose, and my friend and I having both been senior diplomats for many years we understood what the United States would be doing to ensure that result. With Correa replaced by a pro-USA President, Assange’s asylum will be withdrawn, the Metropolitan Police invited in to the Embassy of Ecuador to remove him, and Assange sent immediately to Sweden from where he could be extradited to the United States to face charges of espionage and aiding terrorism.

I have been struck by the naivety of those who ask why the United States could not simply request Assange’s extradition from the United Kingdom. The answer is simple – the coalition government. Extradition agreements are government to government international treaties, and the decision on their implementation is ultimately political and governmental – that is why it was Teresa May and not a judge who took the final and very different political decisions on Babar Ahmad and Gary Mackinnon.

CIA supporters in the UK have argued vociferously that it would be impossible for Sweden to give Assange the assurance he would not be extradited to the United States, with which he would be prepared to return to Sweden to see off the rather pathetic attempted fit-up there. In fact, as extradition agreements are governmental not judicial instruments, it would be perfectly possible for the Swedish government to give that assurance. Those who argue otherwise, like Gavin Essler and Joan Smith here, are not being truthful – I suspect their very vehemence indicates that they know that.

Most Liberal Democrat MPs are happy to endorse the notion that Assange should be returned to Sweden to face sexual accusations. However even the repeatedly humiliated Lib Dem MPs would revolt at the idea that Assange should be sent to face life imprisonment in solitary confinement in the United States for the work of Wikileaks. That is why the United States has held off requesting extradition from the United Kingdom, to avoid the trouble this would cause Cameron. I am not speculating, there have been direct very senior diplomatic exchanges on this point between Washington and London.

There was confidence that the Correa problem would soon pass, but the State Department has since been shocked by the return of Hugo Chavez. Like Correa, senior US diplomats had convinced themselves – and convinced La Clinton – that Chavez was going to lose. The fury at Chavez’s return has led to a diktat that the same mistake must not be made in Ecuador.

CIA operations inside Ecuador are in any case much less disrupted than in Venezuela. I learn that the US budget, using mostly Pentagon funds, devoted to influencing the Ecuadorean election has, since the Venezuelan result, been almost tripled to US $87 million. This will find its way into opposition campaign coffers and be used to fund, bribe or blackmail media and officials. Expect a number of media scandals and corruption stings against Correa’s government in the next few weeks.

I do not have much background on Ecuadorean politics and I really do not know what Correa’s chances of re-election are. Neither do I know if any of the opposition parties are decent and not in the hands of the USA. But I do know that the USA very much want Correa to lose, were very confident that he was going to lose, and now are not. From their point of view, the danger is that in upping the ante, their efforts will become so obvious they will backfire in a nationalist reaction. My US source however is adamant that the Obama adminstration will not actually use the funds to incite another military coup attempt against Correa. That has apparently been ruled out. Assange being expelled into the arms of the CIA by a newly installed military dictatorship might be a difficult sell even for our appalling mainstream media.

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311 Comments

  1. That is why the United States has held off requesting extradition from the United Kingdom, to avoid the trouble this would cause Cameron. I am not speculating, there have been direct very senior diplomatic exchanges on this point between Washington and London.

    Thought so. However, there is now increasing media promotion of the idea – not hard to justify – that Cameron is incompetent, and a palace coup is probably in the offing. This would need much less CIA input than offing Chavez, so let’s consider it done. The Hague foetus (I think we can bid Osborne a fond farewell, too) would be much more compliant with American wishes.

  2. “offing….offing” Morphic resonance, sorry.

  3. “CIA supporters” Craig? Really?

  4. Skipjack 22 Oct, 10:42 am : Well, effectively. And that’s what matters.

  5. What a plan to get at one man, I hope that our US contingent here will ensure that the CIA’s money wasting ways are exposed for what they are, a cover up of law abuse, a cover up of diplomatic double speak and a cover up of extradition agreements with Sweden.

    Most important, US citizens are duped to think that Assange is bad whilst the despicable foreign policy goals of the US world empire are good for their children’s future.

    Party politics and corruption has ruined the politi to such extent that nobody has the chance or inclination to offer alternatives. We only have to look at what the donkeyelephants are prepared to put on the Green Party candidate, a fully eligible presidential candidate is surrounded by police and stopped from joining the debate.

    That’s US democracy, intimidation of candidates and Independents. The apathy here in the UIK will lead to the same excesses of power, because we are as fed up with party politics then they are.
    Who would bat an eyelid if our police commissioners are returned with just over 10% of the vote?
    Nobody! Indeed the papers would be full of praise and support for this rabble policy, talk of mandates and what these police commissioners are going to do, etc.

  6. The way I feel Craig, I think our MSM could sell Hell to God, they are so corrupt, disingenuous and deceitful.

  7. Skipjack

    Absolutely. If you want to argue that some give their support unwittingly as “useful idiots”, I would say the effect is the same and the blindness in this case has to be so extreme as to be wilful. Anyone who holds as an ideological principle that rape allegations may never in any circumstances be subjected to critical analysis deserves to be duped by the CIA.

  8. Very revealing comment by Craig – I am beginning to consolidate my knowledge of British diplomacy.

    America paid a price for the failed assassination of Hugo Chavez and even the millions of American dollars backing Henrique Capriles in a secure election with American and British MSM support failed to usurp people power.

    Operation Venezuela or the ‘Illuminati’ charade, where Venezuelan oligarchy and their CIA/Big Oil backers held rallies in Caracas, were well-countered by supporters of Chavez – marking the anniversary of the deposing of Marcos Perez Jimenez in Venezuela in 1958.

    But as with all recent CIA-sponsored Orange/Velvet/Cedar “revolutions”, (remember Iran)- the contradictions are best discovered in the history books. Jimenez, you see, was a right-wing dictator, the polar opposite of the socialist Chavez.

    Here endeth the first lesson…

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/grahame-morris-mp/hugo-chavez-venezuela_b_1963705.html

  9. What do you reckon, Komodo, should we write to Hugo Chavez and ask him to use some of these 42.7 billion to counter act the 87 million spent by the CIA to undermine President Correa and get him deposed?

    These three seem to be getting on with each other.
    http://live.wsj.com/video/ecuador-correa-visits-chavez/6A8222C7-3932-4C4C-A7E3-BDF538489904.html

  10. This is what Amerika has been up to in Colombia, the country connected to the Panamanian isthmus and which lies between Venezuela and Ecuador.

    ‘Last month’s capture of Colombian drug lord Daniel “El Loco” Barrera by Venezuelan police was hailed as a “victory” in the “war on drugs.”

    Barrera, accused of smuggling some 900 tons of cocaine into Europe and the U.S. throughout his infamous career, was described by Colombian President Juan Manuel Santos, who announced the arrest on national television, as “the last of the great capos.”

    But what of the “capo” who enjoyed high office, is wined and dined by U.S. corporations and conservative think-tanks, owns vast tracks of land, is a “visiting scholar” at a prominent American university (Georgetown) and now sits on the Board of Directors of Rupert Murdoch’s News Corporation?

    When will they be brought to ground?’

    http://dissidentvoice.org/2012/10/teflon-president-noose-tightens-around-uribe-as-former-death-squad-leaders-spill-the-beans/

    PS The ‘capo’ in question is Álvaro Uribe who was put on the Palmer commission by the UN. It produced the whitewash on the Mavi Marmara slaughter,

  11. [Moderation Warning from Clark – “Inside Mann” seems to be a sock-puppet; see below.]

    Don’t get entrenched on Assange. The CIA set out to destroy Assange’s credibility, not put him on trial for him to become a worldwide symbol of info-oppression.

    They have achieved their aims – public opinion is divided, journalists are divided, even core Wikileaks supporters are divided.

    Yes the US don’t like the very public slap in the face from Correa. But the puppet masters are quietly happy at the outcome, with Assange further discrediting himself running to Ecuador:- that bastion of free speech.

    In any case the US would never attempt to extradite Assange from the UK. Why? I have my strong suspicions… Assange is most likely a UK SIS asset.

    If I’m right then this throws a cloud of suspicion around a few of his core supporters – look into their background. Army officers turned journalists, anyone?

    You might be right about a few things, others may be wrong on key facts. But one thing that is beyond doubt is that extradition from Sweden is likely to be even harder than extradition from the UK. Any CIA plotters would have known this.

    There simply was no plot to extradite Assange via Sweden. There may have been two separate operations that have since merged, but there are a lot in the US community aware that putting Assange on trial would only serve to encourage copycat organisations.

    The image of a hounded man is far more potent to the plotters than putting that man on trial. It would likely act as an effective deterrent to others whilst leaving the majority sceptical as to whether there ever was a plot in the first place, giving the US plausible dependability and limiting the ability for Assange to become a martyr in solitary confinement.

    But your sweeping statements on CIA involvement and intentions are alas far from the mark.

  12. Very true Mary – a penetrating post.

  13. Inside Mann,

    I have no idea who you are. People know who I am. My information is from first class sources with direct access whom I know and trust. I am not positing a theory, I am telling you what is happening. You give no grounds to justify your claim to know better.

  14. Another reason for the US (and China) to look longingly at Ecuador:

    http://www.downtoearth.org.in/content/rush-rare-earths

    Background: {http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2002/of02-189/of02-189.pdf}

    They’re not all that rare at all in fact. But mineable deposits containing the right ones for modern electronics are like rocking horse manure.

  15. The Yanks have to be pretty dumb if they believed their own propaganda about Venezuela. Even I, sitting in a little flat with a laptop, knew Chavez would almost certainly win. Correa is also very popular. Those dumb Yanks have got their work cut out.
    .
    It’s interesting though, the idea that an election in Venezuela or Ecuador could really lead to a dramatic change of direction. No-one is suggesting that we simply wait until November to see if the US election changes things in relation to Mr Assange. Because the US election won’t change things. Democracy has moved south.

  16. But one thing that is beyond doubt is that extradition from Sweden is likely to be even harder than extradition from the UK.
    But Sweden was the place where the alleged, stress alleged, crime took place. It would not have been as trivially easy to fit him up in the UK, if that is what happened. The CPS would almost certainly have dismissed the allegations out of hand.

  17. On Assange, Borgstrom, the Grauniad…
    .
    http://rixstep.com/1/20121021,00.shtml

  18. Inside Mann,

    Your assumption ‘Assange is most likely a UK SIS asset’ was muckraked a while back. He is not. The attempt by the BBC to destroy Craig’s argument (Murray vs Aaronovitch on Assange) goes some way to prove the point. I believe people realise ‘running to Ecuador’ was the last option for a man who had kissed his legal options goodbye.

  19. “Inside Mann” above appears to be “Scouse Billy”, sock puppeting.

    Scouse Billy spreads disinformation, climate change denial, and advocates medical quackery.

  20. Good point, Oliver.

    Elections in the US or UK change nothing.

    Elections in Ecuador or Venezuela change everything, and even US policy agrees with that assessment.

    So clearly democracy works in those countries but it doesn’t work in either the US or UK.

    More needs to be made of this. It’s quite disgraceful that even given this very obvious point, our media and politicians are still able to present themselves as other than the dictatorial elites they are.

  21. Inside Mann,

    after all that Manning has been through and is still going through (solitary confinement for months, 23h/day naked, still no process after more than 2 years in military prison), the US government does not seem to get a lot of trouble giving the harshest treatment to a whistleblower allegedly the source of some of WikiLeak’s major revelations.

    I would not be surprised if they really tried to get Assange and did not care a lot about things like a media outcry – in the US, there wouldn’t be any, probably neither in the UK. Assange doesn’t get a lot of support from Western media these days, to put it mildly.

    That and leaked statements by Australian officials asking to get advance notice if and when the US plans to request his extradition point to the direction the US is up to something. And don’t forget the Grand Jury, Assange being labeled ‘enemy of the state’ and a bunch of other hints

  22. Assange appears to have helped everyone take a good look at the Devil and will be lucky to survive.

    I’m not sure how much longer I can wait for the US Empire to disppear …. They seem to be doing a good job of self-destructing. I cheer it on where-ever possible. Elect Romney!!!

    Then we have the question of what it is replaced with.

  23. Which of the South American country has no national army, and has no budget for national defence.

    I remember a You tube clip showing a civilised society with a promising educatuon system?

  24. Talking of democracy, I see that none of Norfolk’s candidates for the forthcoming joke police commissioner post has yet produced a statement on this site….

    …EXCEPT the Independent. Looks as if he could handle the job, btw.

    Otherwise this looks like a promising destination for clapped-out political hacks and wannabe MP’s – you are expected, by the look of it, to vote for the party, not the person. I hope some of the public see through this disgraceful parody of democracy.

    http://www.policeelections.com/candidates/norfolk/

  25. “Which of the South American country has no national army, and has no budget for national defence”

    Costa Rica.

  26. I’m just a simple “peasant” from the United States and have no inside information, but from what I’ve heard a couple of times on Fox News, the desire isn’t merely to extradite Assange but to set up a kangaroo court and execute him. These same elements who tried to assassinate Chavez would also like to see Assange dead. I would be surprised about an attempt to overthrow Cameron, however. Well, not surprised to see CIA allies try it, but surprised to see the UK Government tolerate their political process interfered with by the USA. The UK is our main ally, not some poor Third World or Latin American country.

  27. surprised to see the UK Government tolerate their political process interfered with by the USA. The UK is our main ally…

    Would we be your “main ally” if we were less compliant? Are you our main ally?

  28. For details of what the CIA got up to in Latin America (from 1957 to 1969), read Inside the Company: CIA Diary by Philip Agee.

    An interview with Agee from 2005:
    http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/1015

  29. By ‘peasant’ of course you mean a ‘serf’ Xander, screwed into American Nazism yet acutely aware of the dilemma and waiting for the ‘miracle’ that will evolve American backroom strangulation of society into a true democracy demanded (soon) by the American peoples.

  30. @Craig

    On Ecuador: although Correa has the support of a large part of the Ecuadorean population, unfortunately it would be more difficult for his administration to throw the US out of the country than it would be for Morales or Chavez.

    As you probably know, Morales did chuck the US ambassador out of Bolivia when the US was attempting not to back a coup, in which probably only up to several hundred people would have been killed, but to start a civil war, which would have gone on for some time, and in which thousands or tens of thousands of people would have perished.

    The Bolivian action was admirable. Bolivia also became a beacon not just in Latin America but in the whole world when they threw out the Israeli ambassador in response to the Gaza massacre.

    One just has to note how hard it would be to imagine some creep heading up a government in the UK, France, or Germany, doing the same thing.

    Throwing the US out of Ecuador would be more difficult because

    1) the currency of Ecuador is the US dollar (sic) and

    2) the policy of ‘universal citizenship’, which is thoroughly laudable in itself, has let a lot of rich US nationals buy second (or third etc.) homes in the country and stay there as long as they want, which means the CIA can count on the support of a large number of helpers in the country, even before we start talking about the compradores.

    Cf. how MI6 can call on an enormous amount of support among the Anglos in Argentina.

    I should add that I mean no disrespect to those US nationals who have bought houses in Ecuador who wouldn’t dream of helping the US government or the CIA.

    On the positive side, just because it’s more difficult, that doesn’t mean it wouldn’t happen.

    Correa could of course count on support from Chavez, Morales, and ALBA, including economic support from Chavez to support a Correa administration during the major economic hassle which the US could cause, using the US dollar lever. Rapid currency reform would be required, but there are already moves towards that on a regional level.

    Let us hope Correa throws the US assets out sooner rather than later, and integrates more closely with ALBA.

    Meanwhile in the UK…I think your idea that LibDem MPs would ‘revolt’ over an extradition of Assange to the US is just wishful thinking.

    “That is why the United States has held off requesting extradition from the United Kingdom, to avoid the trouble this would cause Cameron. I am not speculating, there have been direct very senior diplomatic exchanges on this point between Washington and London.”

    Craig, old mate, do you actually believe every piece of information you are given by contacts in ‘the Foreign Office’? You don’t look that naive.

    When they use you as a conduit for unattributable material, all of the material they pass to you is always straight-down-the-line, is it? :-)

    “The State Department has since been shocked by the return of Hugo Chavez.”

    If so, that just shows what a bunch of fucking idiots they are.

    “I do not have much background on Ecuadorean politics and I really do not know what Correa’s chances of re-election are. Neither do I know if any of the opposition parties are decent and not in the hands of the USA. But I do know that the USA very much want Correa to lose, were very confident that he was going to lose, and now are not. From their point of view, the danger is that in upping the ante, their efforts will become so obvious they will backfire in a nationalist reaction.”

    Correa is not particularly nationalist. What you have to understand is that major social reforms benefiting most of the lower orders are underway in Ecuador. The ‘oligarchy’ are itching for a Pinochet solution, and much of the inherited-wealth ‘traditional’ part of the middle class are already heavily Americanised, sending their brats to US universities, etc. The right wing also controls much of the media.

    A drum roll is required at that point.

    The question is why does the left-wing government have so much support, when the right wing controls much of the media?

    The answer is, of course, the social reforms. The first three countries in Latin America to achieve near-full literacy were Cuba, after Castro came to power, and then Venezuela and Bolivia after Chavez and Morales come to power.

    In Cuba, the old regime, owned by New York Jewish mafia boss Meyer Lansky and his pals, got out on a plane and gave a resounding ‘Fuck you, we’ve got the gold’. (They had the gold on the plane with them.)

    Venezuela, not Cuba, is the modern canonical example. The reformist forces in Venezuela have BYPASSED the positions of the right wing. This is a very new pattern in the history of the world. The right would love a civil war in the literal sense, culminating in a fascist victory, but the reformist forces have refused to give them the civil war they crave. Instead the left wing forces are making progress where they can – and that means in a lot of areas.

    Therefore I am optimistic that Correa will remain in power, and that efforts by the US will be squelched.

    My US source however is adamant that the Obama adminstration will not actually use the funds to incite another military coup attempt against Correa. That has apparently been ruled out. Assange being expelled into the arms of the CIA by a newly installed military dictatorship might be a difficult sell even for our appalling mainstream media.

    People in the UK would forget about it in 2 minutes. It might not even be on the front pages.

    And you are forgetting something. If a pro-US administration in Ecuador chuck him out of the embassy door in London, he’d be taken to Sweden first. Only then would he be taken to the US, at whatever time the US thugs think is convenient.

    Do you really think legal points about how Sweden shouldn’t extradite him without UK say-so, or about how extradition is ultimately a matter for the executive rather than the judiciary, would find much traction among LibDem MPs or among British voters? Maybe a trip back down to earth is called for?

  31. The US has been interfering in UK and European politics for ages. It’s just that since 911 it’s become much more open.

    They’re basically writing UK and European law on “security” matters.

    That borders one which Mark referred to recently is a real twisted piece of fascist work. Most people don’t realise that you’ve bugger all in the way of rights or redress when you cross through a UK border. That’s planes, trains, automobiles and ferries. No warrants or even suspicion required. You must submit to whatever investigation or questions they impose under pain of criminal penalty.

  32. Xander Taylor at 22 Oct, 12:42 pm, the current UK government is a coalition between the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats. The Conservatives don’t have an overall majority without the support of the Lib Dems. The Lib Dems are somewhat more progressive than the Conservatives.

    If the Conservative Cameron tried to extradite Assange, the Lib Dems would probably withdraw their support, and the Cameron-led Con-Dem coalition could fall.

    Incidentally, the UK’s internal political processes are frequently interfered with by the US.

  33. N_

    Correa expelled a US amabassador, for terrorist activities.

    He also got rid of the US base in his country.

  34. @Skipjack – Are you aware that the head of the CIA Station in London attends the weekly meetings of the top UK intelligence and security body, called the Joint Intelligence Committee? The CIA has many journalists and others in the UK on its payroll, and has done for generations.

    @Clark – “If the Conservative Cameron tried to extradite Assange, the Lib Dems would probably withdraw their support, and the Cameron-led Con-Dem coalition could fall.

    Nonsense. It wouldn’t even be billed as ‘conservative Cameron’. It would be billed as the oh-so-independent judiciary allowing due process to occur. (I know that’s not accurate, but that’s not the point.) And he would first be flown to Sweden.

    Why on earth do you have such faith in the integrity of the those LibDem creeps? Their party is just as friendly with the US as the Tory party or Labour party are.

  35. @Herbie – thanks for the correction. I’d forgotten that. All the more reason for optimism, then!

  36. Correa won my eternal devotion when I read that he offered to allow the USA to maintain an air base in Ecuador, provided Ecuador was allowed to set up its own air base in Florida.

    You have got to love a man like that. Almost as good as Chavez’ “smell of sulphur”.

  37. Is it totally out of the question for the Ecuadorians to sneak Assange out of the embassy and back to Ecuador by using a bit of subterfuge? Similar things have happened in the past with great success. If the Ecuadorean secret services want to get in touch, I have a cunning plan…

  38. “You have got to love a man like that. Almost as good as Chavez’ “smell of sulphur”.”

    Yup, or “You are a donkey, Mr. Bush.”

    cheered me up no end, that one did.

  39. The ‘miracle’ is when ‘hope’ is displaced by ‘intention’ Xander – that power will be invoked I believe when American ‘fear’ is replaced by the anger simmering below the surface of American politics.

    Not really a broad-brush statement – the siege of Sarah D. Roosevelt park and Union Square is not forgotten in a cramped American cognizance; a nine million person march is where we are heading. That wish must indeed mobilize the American psyche into a non-virtual release from the pain of incarceration in virtual concentration camps.

  40. The winds of change are blowing against the US in Latin America, and on a few recent occasions when they have tried to back coups, they’ve been stopped. How their faces must have looked in the Pentagon and at Langley! The popular upsurge that put Chavez back in power after he’d been overthrown by military coup was extraordinary. I don’t know of any parallel.

  41. willyrobinson

    22 Oct, 2012 - 1:45 pm

    Propper journalism, thanks Craig.

  42. Another small point – if the Brits at the Foreign Office think there’s a big chance Correa won’t win the election, they’re as stupid as their counterparts at the US State Department.

    They’re just as arrogant, only in a superficially different flavour.

  43. N_, 22 Oct, 2012 – 1:12 pm:
    “Venezuela, not Cuba, is the modern canonical example. The reformist forces in Venezuela have BYPASSED the positions of the right wing. This is a very new pattern in the history of the world. The right would love a civil war in the literal sense, culminating in a fascist victory, but the reformist forces have refused to give them the civil war they crave. Instead the left wing forces are making progress where they can – and that means in a lot of areas.”

    This is spot-on. Chavez is a true democrat first, socialist second. He introduced direct democracy elements into Venenezuelan constitution – powerful means of diffusing potential for violent conflict. If Cuba does not follow suit, the fate of Eastern Europe awaits it – regression to shamocracy in most cases.

  44. @Komodo, the stench of the PCC elections is peeling the bark of the trees and that website should have been informed that the only Independent candidate there was, Mervyn Lambert, has stepped down on the 6.Oct.
    which leaves nobody to vote for except party politicians and some UKIP school boy.

    Sad to see that some feel the need to morph from one moniker to the other, or is it that I have yet to discover my female inner self and return as the ‘wicket Ingrid’…..

  45. Komodo ref police commissioners.

    I am taking Blair’s (the other one} advice.

    ‘Former Metropolitan Police chief Ian Blair yesterday urged the public to undermine the new positions by boycotting the commissioner votes, as lack of interest threatens to keep turnout below 20 per cent.’

    This one has pulled out as have several others.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/is-police-candidate-a-trojan-horse-for-rightwing-american-thinktank-8219877.html

    It is a ConDem trick to make us think that the inauguration of these so called police commissioners is more democratic than the current system of police authorities, ie elected county councillors and others, as pathetic as they are.

  46. “evgueni” – there’s a name I’d like to see here more often.

    Here’s to true democracy, evgueni.

  47. Interesting (albeit heavily redacted) new(?) wikileaks/manning documents published here:

    http://cryptome.org/2012/10/dfat-foi-1112-F294.pdf

    http://cryptome.org/2012/10/dfat-foi-1205-F337.pdf

  48. Scouse Billy

    22 Oct, 2012 - 2:13 pm

    ““Inside Mann” above appears to be “Scouse Billy”, sock puppeting.

    Scouse Billy spreads disinformation, climate change denial, and advocates medical quackery.”

    Certainly not me.

    Clark, on what basis have you decided to accuse me?

    You may not like me but I post as myself, thank you very much.

    Craig, I strongly object to this false accusation.

  49. Sorry to miss Lambert’s departure, Nevermind. Remiss of me. The PCC idea was part of the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Act 2011, a pot-pourri of Tory ideology whose third reading was shoved through on a Thursday afternoon, as you do when you want to restrict the time for debate. Half the trough-snufflers are on their planes or in their first-class rail carriages, heading for their constituencies, and many of the rest are impatient to be off.

    As yet, no-one has any clear idea of how this is actually intended to work, except that the commissioner can appoint a finance chief and chief executive (and their staff) to help him. You’ve guessed who will be paying the non-minimum wages involved.

    I assume that there will be some electioneering, that the parties will fund their candidates’ campaigns, and that it will be seen as an attractive alternative to working as an unpaid Westminster intern if you are a young suit and have an Oxford PPE degree and a lust for power. No qualifications are required, naturally. A background in media (like our Minister for Justice – or minijust – will be more than adequate.

  50. Blair (the police one) telling the public to stay away is the one thing that might make me vote. If he’s afraid of even this much sham democracy, I’d rather it happened. I’m conflicted.

  51. Evgueni – good insight man. Clark!

  52. America this is just not fair, it is too dirty, too much harm. America you are in a position to stop disrupting the world, to help it blossom instead of wither. You talked the talk, I got my dreams of peace and freedom from your vision. Stop making nightmare. Turn on the lights.

  53. Scouse Billy – we’ve had our differences, but I’m inclined to believe you. However, if Clark is going by the IP address he sees on his board, there are a couple of other reasons you might share an IP with Inside Mann. One is that IM is posting from the same institution or business network as you. The other is that he has spoofed his IP (or you have!), coincidentally using yours, or, yes, possibly by design. If the latter there are some implications for site security.

  54. A brilliant piece of writing. Thank you Craig!

  55. Got this on medialens. It’s a BBC interview with staff at the Ecuador embassy. This is the best bit. Here the ambassador explains how bully boy Hague tried to threaten the country. The bit about cops at every window, including the bog when she wanted to go for a pee, adds a nice human touch, which mirrors aptly the menacing cops outside. Really does give the lie to Hague and indeed Chuck Crawford’s efforts to downplay what the lunatics were up to:

    “In mid-August, a couple of months after Mr Assange’s arrival, the Ecuadorean government received a letter from the UK foreign office. In this letter, she says, the UK government threatened to storm her embassy.

    But it wasn’t only the letter, she says.

    “That letter came with a gift, the gift was numbers and numbers of policemen outside the embassy. It was a crazy night.”

    She tells me that late that evening the road was closed. More police turned up. They were outside every window, she remembers.

    But she says her biggest shock came when she went to the embassy toilet.

    “I turned on the light on and was about to go to the loo, see, and out of the window were police officers.” She bursts again into laughter.

    I ask her what she made of the action.

    “It was the biggest mistake that I have seen since I arrived.”

    “Why?”

    “I am not Mr Hague’s brain, so you had better ask him. But I think in the beginning they were trying to show this little country that Britain is still an empire and we should learn how to be good boys during our stay here.””

    The rest is worth a read too. These guys really do come across as human beings, first and foremost.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20026480

  56. Scouse Billy

    22 Oct, 2012 - 2:49 pm

    Thanks, Komodo – I was thinking the same but I’d like to see some evidence of this IP match.

    Anyway, I am very much pro-wikileaks and certainly not pro-CIA.

    I “left” an organisation that was closely linked to the CIA/NSA because, in their words, I was “dangerously intelligent” – that’s code for I see through manufactured reality and prefer truth…!

  57. O/T Agent Cameron is back to Laura Norder, again.

    I heard the other day about a charity which has a narrow workboat on the river here and whose volunteers take Community Service offenders, mostly young men, along the river to do outside work under their close supervision. No smoking or drinking is allowed. The candidates are given their fares to get to the boat.

    Previously, the charity’s weekly report on attendance, work output, behaviour was closely monitored by the Probation Service and action taken on any slacking, non attendance, late arrival etc. The probation service has now been disbanded and the work has been handed over to a ‘trust’ based in another country. Six months have gone by and absolutely no notice is being taken of the reports or input. Therefore, the volunteers will lose interest and the young offenders will miss the chance to learn new skills and to take responsibility for themselves and hopefully reform.

    So much for Cameron’s B I G S O C I E T Y!

  58. CAT Article 3

    22 Oct, 2012 - 3:00 pm

    If the AP wanted to lessen CIA’s interest in foreign interference, it could pass an act affirming the principal of non-refoulement. Then extradition proceedings would ensure an awkward airing of US official impunity for torture and Swedish acquiescence in that crime.

  59. The medialens board doesnt need to put up with shenanigans from self proclaimed dangerous intelligences who spam Psych-K blurbs on how to use attennas in the plasma membranes to “download information from the universe”

  60. Scouse Billy

    22 Oct, 2012 - 3:13 pm

    I have never espoused Psych-K – Lipton’s work as a cell biologist was where I was ooming from.

    Too bad you missed the point that mainstream biology hasn’t caught up with quantum physics but you didn’t grasp that,did you?

  61. Scouse Billy, I see that you’re back on your usual IP, from which you have consistently commented as “Scouse Billy”, except for once, when, it appears, you posted as “Cecil Rhodes”.

    There are five comments from the IP of “Inside Mann”; three of which carry your screen-name and e-mail address. Here are links to them, for inspection:

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/09/the-al-hilli-conundrum/comment-page-12/#comment-359133

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2011/08/why-we-must-leave-nato/comment-page-1/#comment-320443

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2011/08/why-we-must-leave-nato/comment-page-1/#comment-320401

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2011/07/new-norwegian-killing/comment-page-1/#comment-316349

  62. Komodo he is “dangerously intelligent”, surely capable of a little change in style. IP spoofing is difficult, matching someone elses ip is even harder. That character has been gaming boards for years. A total plonker.

  63. Correction.
    This one has pulled out as have several others.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/is-police-candidate-a-trojan-horse-for-rightwing-american-thinktank-8219877.html

    He, Mervyn Barrett, has not pulled out. His campaign team has. He should be reported to the Electoral Commission if he has taken money from a foreign source which is illegal. Isn’t it wonderful that you only give details of campaign funds up to 90 days after the date of the election.

    Komodo, Sorry. Blair is dead right this time on not voting.

  64. The IP of “Inside Mann” appears to be a TOR exit router.

    My apology for not checking that earlier. Scouse Billy’s total disregard for checking facts, his advocacy of medical quackery, fake physics, ludicrous conspiracy theories, etc. etc. etc. led me to jump to a conclusion.

    But you do use TOR, then Billy? But you then post under your own e-mail address? And yet “an organisation that was closely linked to the CIA/NSA” called you “dangerously intelligent”? I think you’re just a liar.

  65. As well as IP address, the web server has access to at least client Operating System, Browser, Processor and Screen resolution/depth and whether certain options are disabled or enabled. Oh and Cookies…

    If Scouse Billy and “Inside Mann” had all of the above in common and were not the same person (especially if the combinations were particularly unusual ones) then I’d think they were possibly sitting near each other in some place where the PCs are locked to a standard build/configuration.

    Cookies could be the smoking gun that the same PC was used (barring skullduggery).

  66. Of course the above can be anonymised to a degree the more trouble is taken as the comments about TOR imply. Still I suspect using TOR might just as well draw attention as hide it. If I was an intelligence service I would want to control or monitor as many exit nodes as possible.

  67. PCC…if I see a competent independent I’ll vote for it. Otherwise I’ll stay away, Mary. Promise.

    Fair enough, Anon. Didn’t know how much was available, my bad. Cancel the above.

  68. “I asked a former colleague in the British Foreign and Commonwealth Office what Hague saw as the endgame in the Julian Assange asylum standoff, and where the room for negotiation lay. My friend was dismissive – the policy was simply to wait for the Presidential election in Ecuador in February.”

    As others have commented there are many reasons the US wants to be rid of Correa. I cant think that Assange is a major one.

    Who actually needs an endgame here?
    (1)Assange himself obviously, and his supporters.
    (2) Ecuador presumably.
    (3) the UK probably.

    The US is probably quite happy for this to drag on indefinitely. Assange is tainted without any need to actually try him, imprisoned indefinitely without expense to the US, and could always be turned into an asset or executed if so desired if circumstances change. Its a bit like having Bin Laden holed up in Pakistan.

  69. Ben Franklin (Anti-intellectual Colonial American Savage version)

    22 Oct, 2012 - 4:06 pm

    Although the methodology was different, Christopher Boyce was a kind of whistleblower. Boyce melted down after his disillusionment with American mischief in foreign elections.

    Primarily, in his job, deep in the bowels of a civilian contractor whose satellite transmissions were inadvertently seen by his eyes. It culminated on 11 November 1975 with the removal of the Prime Minister, Gough Whitlam of the Australian Labor Party .

    Perhaps more like Manning than Assange,, Boyce went rogue-nutz using a defunct operation known as ‘Pyramid’ and sought to sell to Soviets. His case was clearly defined as espionage, and the publicity around drug smuggling and spying drew attention away from the linchpin of his rage.

    He had already seen the signs behind the poorly disguised coup in Chile after Allende was legally elected to office. The CIA continues their disinformation campaigns with impunity because the population of America, as well as those in other countries worldwide, don’t really give a shit, as long as they have sufficient Big Macs and gasoline to burn in their tar-machines.

  70. I found Inside Mann’s position overstated, but i have sympathy with it. I found wikileaks websites to be unusually poor at presenting the leaks, and the association with the IBC’s shameful undercounting of war casualties very problematic, and Julians obvious errors with telling a journalist the live database passcode which was subsequently released, and his flawed intimate relationships – are very unimpressive.
    But, there are still standards of ideas and justice to stand by regardless of the flaws and possibilities arising from them. Julian probably is brave and sincere and hopefuly learning and will hopefuly improve. Even if he is in on ‘divide and rule’ we should still keep to the good side of the divide, instead of uniting with those who abandon trust.

  71. Anon,

    I use at least five browsers depending on… each with their own cookie file – TOR allocates stupid IP addresses so I agree it attracts attention and is insecure to boot according to a poster here (forgotten who it was).

    Yes I agree with whoever; a continuous ‘technical’ thread might be in order. I’ll propose it to Clark/Jon.

  72. Ben Franklin (Anti-intellectual Colonial American Savage version)

    22 Oct, 2012 - 4:21 pm

    “Julian probably is brave and sincere and hopefuly learning and will hopefuly improve. Even if he is in on ‘divide and rule’ we should still keep to the good side of the divide, instead of uniting with those who abandon trust.”

    Crab; I’ve often wondered why an anonymous purveyor needs a public face. It seems contradictory, and since he has been sequestered, perhaps the baton should be handed off, but I question the need.

  73. Scouse Billy

    22 Oct, 2012 - 4:24 pm

    Interesting that Inside Mann should know my e-mail address, Clark.

    Please note I am not using TOR nor have done for many months.

    In any case, I am neither Inside Mann nor a liar – I’ll thank you to desist from such defamation.

  74. If someone’s using TOR, that means that someone else using TOR actually connects to the target site. Am I right so far? If so, whose IP is actually on the packets? Enquiring minds, and that.

  75. Ben Franklin (Anti-intellectual Colonial American Savage version)

    22 Oct, 2012 - 4:30 pm

    If the email address is visible, what good is TOR? I notice it has only about one or two dozen ip’s which rotate in and out, but how does that equate to ‘anonymizer’?

  76. Whilst we’re talking about defamation. Looks like Frankie Boyle won his libel case against The Mirror.

    They and others were trying to diminish him when he was speaking up for Palestinians.

    Funny how these racist scumbags are the biggest players of the race card.

    Same goes for anti-semitism too. It’s always the biggest scumfilth who are readiest to play these cards.

    There’s a lesson there for those who are too enamoured of identity politics. All ain’t what it seemed.

  77. Oops. Looks like somebody’s been caught at the porkie pies again.

    Why is there a picture of Jack Straw there?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/22/british-cia-rendition-9-11

    Ian Cobain did a Q&A at The Graun today on rendition. It’s all becoming too easy now. Craig did all the heavy lifting and paid the price.

  78. Komodo, the web-server sees the IP address of the TOR exit node you are being relayed through. Some sites block TOR and other proxies from any access (GodLikeProdutions – enough said) and some partially block access.

  79. How can someone who was an ambassador to the UK write so much baloney? Seriously, the US and UK don’t give a rat’s ass about Assange or Correa, for the publicity is like oxygen

  80. Good lad Komodo. btw do you retreat to your underground lair at weekends? I can’t be sure but don’t think your licking tongue is seen around here Sat/Sun.

  81. Seriously, the US and UK don’t care to be reminded how Assange and Correa outwitted them.

    There, fixed it for ya.

    Thing is Jorge. You’re on a boat, and it’s sinking.

  82. Thanks Herbie – Bush to CIA: ‘Leave No Marks’ – a torture primer.

    http://www.villagevoice.com/2007-08-14/news/bush-to-cia-leave-no-marks/

    Torture UK: why Britain has blood on its hands
    How did the British government get involved in the torture of its own citizens?

    guardian.co.uk/law/2012/oct/19/torture-uk-britain-blood-government

  83. O/T from an e-mail this morning.

    Gaza
    “F16’s still very low in the sky. Schools evacuated, Land incursion east of Jabalia ( 5 tanks), air strikes in Erez, Beit hanoun areas, Many injured , and confirmed fatalities. Gaza under attack.” Also that white phosphorous is being fired on East Gaza.

    Later reported on BBC as two ‘militants’ killed.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20027813

  84. @Ben Franklin (Anti-Intellectual Colonial American Savage Version)
    22 Oct, 2012 – 4:06 pm

    I was reading about him only two nights ago and wanted to mention him in relation to whistle blowing.
    S-P-O-O-K-Y!

  85. The larvae that became the LibDems gorged themselves as infants on the very marrow of the Labour Party, they were the Gaitskellites who Wilson ill-advisedly did not deal harshly enough with to drive them out. The treachery of Williams, Jenkins and friends, consistently anti-union, anti-state, pro – US, EU, freemarket, big business – empowered only Mrs. Thatcher; look at the embrace the SDP and Liberal/SDP Alliance was given by the media, considered immediately an equal of the two other parties; without the SDP Micheal Foot could well have become PM in ’83, at the head of a fractious but still leftwing Labour party.

    That this opportunist LibDem rabble offer the tiniest glimmer hope to anyone indicates to me that despair has a multiplicative effect on gullibility.

    I’ve read an estimate that ‘the 1%’ of low repute are those who can find £500,000 after clearing any major debts, mortgage etc. Hope this dispels doubts for anyone who is unclear which side of the divide they’re on.

  86. O/T sorry,

    I have written to the BBC, via John Hamer- BBC Trust Unit- stating I will not pay a license fee to a Charter that covers up pedophilia.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/video/2012/oct/22/jimmy-savile-panorama-newsnight-video

  87. @Komodo Connections routed through Tor reveal only an exit nodes ip, like an anonymous proxy, or moreso a chain of them to make retracing even harder.

    @all Clark didnt say Inside mann used SBs email address. He said sb used it while using Tor in the past.

    Inside Mann was just using Tor and SB happened to do so in the past and by chance had the same exit node.

    SB regularly talks and links to such frustratingly unscrupulous and weird rubbish that Clark was confused by the coincidental exit nodes.

  88. Thatcrab, thanks. Yes, that seems about right.

  89. Right. That’s great. Now that the BBC have finally got around to exposing something filthy and corrupt about their own internal organisation, can we hope that they soon get around to exposing the financial corruption, its players, their wars, their destruction of civil liberties and rape of the national assets etc over the past 40 odd years.

    You know. Like kinda what a public broadcaster is for.

    Otherwise would you please just wind yourself up and let someone else do it!!

  90. did assange ever release information about Israel ?

  91. Herbie, thanks for the link to the BBC article with interviews of staff at the Ecuadorean embassy in London. The consul, Fidel Narveaz, says that “While the decision was being taken [to grant him asylum], a member of the diplomatic staff needed to be here full time and that was me.”

    I really hope that at least one member of the diplomatic staff, or other embassy staff but Ecuadorean and not British, is still there at all hours of day and night.

    If that isn’t so, I could easily imagine a scenario where the electrics are sabotaged, the lock picked, Assange grabbed, perhaps after being sedated while asleep, and British authorities claim he went outside of the embassy into the non-extraterritorial communal stairway, where he was arrested. Oh and for some reason all the surveillance footage went missing, not just in the building, but in the surrounding area too (cf. the Princess Diana and Dodi Fayed car crash).

    That’d all be a cinch for the ‘Increment’, the armed forces special ops personnel on call to MI6.

    Never ever trust the perfidious ones. If Assange is the only person in the embassy at night, that is absolutely asking for trouble.

  92. Great Herbie – strong and intentional – the way I like it!

  93. Craig:

    Those who argue otherwise, like Gavin Essler and Joan Smith here, are not being truthful – I suspect their very vehemence indicates that they know that.

    I remember an interview Esler did with George Galloway on Newnight (2005?) when he all but accused George of promoting terrorism. George questioned his motivation and said something like: “I’ve had my eye on you for a while, laddie.”

    I too have had my eye on that laddie ever since.

  94. scousebilly

    As usual I have no idea what everyone is talking about. The joys of technophobia. As you seem to be not guilty by general agreement of whatever it was you were accused of doing, I suggest we don’t worry about it.

  95. Jack Straw said in 2005:
    .
    Unless we all start to believe in conspiracy theories and that the officials are lying, that I am lying, that behind this there is some kind of secret state which is in league with some dark forces in the United Statesthere simply is no truth in the claims that the United Kingdom had been involved in rendition“.
    .
    from the Guardian today:
    .
    UK intelligence officers knew of CIA’s rendition plans within days of 9/11
    Meeting at British embassy in US raises questions about repeated denials by MI5 and MI6 of connivance in torture

    .
    Take it from Jack, we should not be put off the investigation of subjects by the cheap flinging around of the ‘conspiracy theory’ tag. Also, officials do lie & there is some kind of secret state which is in league with some dark forces in the United States………….

  96. Phil W

    Of course Assange is not the only reason, nor one of the first reasons, the US hates Correa. But it is undoubtedly now one of the major reasons.

  97. “All we have as an organisation is the trust of the people the people that watch us and listen to us and if we don’t have that, if we start to lose that, that’s very dangerous I think for the BBC.”

    John Simpson October 2012

    To the BBC Trustees – that trust washed out when you refused to answer the charge of bind-eyeing the barbarity in Bahrain – the barbarity in Gaza referring to ‘rebels’ as ‘militants’ or ‘terrorists’ – failing to report accurately the abyss in Libya, the malnutrition, orphaning and dying from treatable diseases in Iraq despite numerous requests.

    The BBC – you are carnal, unworthy, dishonorable and now licentious. The Royal Charter that ordained you is invalid under Clause 4 below

    The Public Purposes

    The Public Purposes of the BBC are as follows—

    (a) sustaining citizenship and civil society;
    (b) promoting education and learning;
    (c) stimulating creativity and cultural excellence;
    (d) representing the UK, its nations, regions and communities;
    (e) bringing the UK to the world and the world to the UK;

    53. Dissolution and winding-up – The BBC may, if it appears to the Trust appropriate to do so, —

    (a) surrender this Charter with the permission of Us, Our Heirs or Successors in Council and upon such terms as We or They may consider fit, and

    (b) wind up or otherwise deal with the affairs of the BBC in such manner as may be approved by the Secretary of State. Where the BBC is to be dissolved voluntarily or compulsorily, the property and assets of the BBC shall, before the dissolution occurs —

    (a) be applied in satisfaction of the debts and liabilities of the BBC, and
    (b) subject to sub-paragraph (a), be disposed of in accordance with the directions of the Secretary of State. When this Charter expires at the end of 31st December 2016, the undertaking of the BBC shall cease, so far as it may depend upon this Charter unless We, Our Heirs or Successors,shall by writing under Our or Their Sign Manual declare to the contrary and authorise the continuance of the undertaking under some or all of the provisions of this Charter and under such provisions and conditions as We, Our Heirs or Successors may think fit. This article is subject to any applicable statutory provision or other legal requirement.

  98. N_

    I think it’s more difficult for Britain to mess with Ecuador these days. Any such messing would I’m sure result in sanctions of some description from a number of resource rich latin American countries. Were such messing to take place, I’m afraid it would only be with the private blessing of Ecuador.

    Thanks Mark. There are fissures appearing in every area of British life. The curtain is pulled back bit by bit, the fraud revealed, critical mass built. It all collapses quite suddenly in the end. The last to know will be the players themselves.

  99. “Seriously, the US and UK don’t give a rat’s ass about Assange or Correa”

    S’riously?

    “Revealed: Canberra shared intel on Assange with Washington”
    October 18, 2012

    WikiLeaks and Julian Assange have been the subject of intelligence exchanges between Australia and the United States for more than two years, the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade has revealed.

    The WikiLeaks publisher was also the subject of Australian intelligence reporting from Washington shortly before he sought political asylum in Ecuador’s London embassy.

    In a freedom of information decision yesterday, Foreign Affairs confirmed to Fairfax Media the existence of an intelligence report concerning WikiLeaks and Mr Assange cabled to Canberra from Australia’s Washington embassy on June 1.

    Mr Assange, who had been unsuccessful in his legal fight to avoid extradition from the United Kingdom to Sweden to face questioning about sexual assault allegations, sought political asylum in Ecuador’s London embassy 18 days later.

    Foreign Affairs has also confirmed that US-Australia intelligence exchanges on WikiLeaks date back more than two years by revealing the existence of two intelligence reports sent from Washington to Canberra on August 4 and 25, 2010, in the immediate aftermath of the transparency website’s publication of secret US military reports on the war in Afghanistan …

    One newly released Australian diplomatic cable also shows that the Washington embassy did receive confidential information concerning the involvement of the US Federal Bureau of Investigation in investigations targeting WikiLeaks as early as 29 or 30 July 2010.

    Continues
    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/revealed-canberra-shared-intel-on-assange-with-washington-20121017-27qo6.html

  100. Anyone who thinks the UK wasn’t in on that loop isn’t following the story.

  101. And Lance Armstrong has finally been stripped of all his Tour de France titles. He has to return $3 million as well.

  102. Two troughers spot new opportunity. Better financially for them?? Probably. Mug electorates pick up the bills for extra by-elections. Hope they both lose.

    22 October 2012

    Tony Lloyd and Alun Michael quit Commons to fight police election

    Following the death of Sir Stuart Bell, a by-election is due in Middlesbrough

    Veteran Labour MPs Tony Lloyd and Alun Michael have resigned from the House of Commons so they can stand to be police and crime commissioners.

    This will trigger by-elections in their Manchester Central and Cardiff South and Penarth seats.

    These are expected to take place, along with four other by-elections and a mayoral election, on 15 November – the same day as the police elections.

    Mr Lloyd and Mr Michael have both been MPs for more than 25 years.

    /..

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20031849

    Parliamentary Expenses Claims

    Alun Michael was one of the MPs who was investigated by the Daily Telegraph in its probe into MPs Expenses Claims in 2009. The Daily Telegraph reported that “Alun Michael claims £4,800 for food in one year, and £2,600 for repairs to his roof at his constituency home in Penarth. Claims for £1,250 cost of repairing a wall and building a 13ft chain link fence.”.[23] Subsequently it was reported he was among 390 MPs required by Sir Thomas Legg to repay taxpayers’ money which allegedly they had wrongly-claimed. An audit of claims dating back to 2004 revealed that Michael should repay £18,889.56 for mortgage interest on additional loans “not shown to have been for an eligible purpose”. He had also been paid £280 more than he was entitled to claim for council tax in the year 2004/05 – claiming expenses for 12 installments when, in fact,he had only had to pay 10 to the local authority. Michael blamed a “clerical error” for the inflated claim. He said “The council tax payment came at a time when I was under a lot of stress politically”.[24] Michael repaid £19,169.56 although later in a 2010 Election Hustings meeting in Splott he said press reports of his having been forced to pay back £20,000 were “untrue” and asserted he had “voluntarily” paid back the money.[25]

    Bliar gave him the job of Secretary of State to Wales in preference to Rhodri Morgan after Davies’ moment of madness on Clapham Common following which Davies resigned.

  103. Scouse Billy

    22 Oct, 2012 - 6:56 pm

    Craig, yes, very happy to forget it.

  104. Gone viral in Ecuador!

    http://trendsmap.com/local/ecuador

  105. What is an exit node?

  106. Mary, I don’t know if you posted this earlier, but it’s hilarious:

    “Donald Trump lawyers tried to stop BBC showing Scottish bullying film”
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/oct/22/donald-trump-bbc-film-row

    which includes

    “In a short statement, the BBC defended its decision. “You’ve Been Trumped is an award-winning film that has been screened at international festivals around the world,” it said.

    “During the making of the film, Donald Trump declined the opportunity to take part. We are confident that Donald Trump was offered sufficient right to reply in accordance with BBC editorial guidelines. Donald Trump chose not to participate but the film-maker took care to reflect his views on a number of different occasions in the film.”

    Trump has refused to see the film but on Twitter last week he described his critics as “morons”. He asserted that Baxter had “zero talent” and was a “stupid fool” whose film had helped publicise and promote his golf course at Menie, north of Aberdeen.

    Baxter said he repeatedly asked Trump for an interview while he was making the documentary but none of the offers were taken up.”

  107. Be careful what you wish for.

    I agree with everything being said here about the BBC. It’s purpose is and always has been to create and maintain the illusion that our rulers work for our best interests. However, the nature of our rulers has changed, Britain is more than ever a puppet state used as a tool in world affairs by powers which have no allegiance to this country. They are able to do this by their control over our news media.

    Very few on this forum underestimate the extent of this power. In most of the world, wealth alone is enough – owning the TV channels and newspapers – but in this country, the BBC is state owned and they must use other means – infiltration, career threats and bribery, etc. Whilst the result is almost indistinguishable from the rest of the mainstream media output, at least they have to work harder to obtain it. Also a newspaper or TV channel, once purchased, is theirs forever, whilst they have to continuously maintain their control over the BBC.

    We might not like the BBC, but we only need to observe the effort that, for example, the Murdoch empire put into undermining it, to realise that it has at least the potential to be a thorn in their side.

    Better we work towards regaining control over the BBC than destroying it.

  108. #yadice

  109. Whatever about the need to regain control over the BBC, the idea of that well-padded idiot with the ridiculous hairstyle calling film makers “morons” and “stupid fools” and claiming they have “zero talent” is a hoot.
    USA: watch out, pride goes before destruction, haughtiness before a fall. Beware hubris and a belief in your own exceptionalism. <– and Israel take note.

  110. Thanks. No I didn’t Nuid. I posted this piece from the film maker.

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/anthony-baxter-reviews-the-progress-of-donald-1390579

    I still cannot believe how calm the Forbes couple were throughout as provocation after provocation was heaped upon them and Trump continued to insult them at his press conferences. The Trump son who trailed in the background looked a nasty piece of work. He has just become a father for the fourth time so the horrible dynasty continues. I hope they all come crashing down when Amerika goes down and that Gaia restores the landscape at Menie to its magical original condition. A few severe storms are needed to come in from the E to shift the sands and to obliterate the golf course.

  111. I can’t get http://trendsmap.com/local/ecuador

    Must be thousands trying to access it!

  112. Disagree A Node – that is appeasement – you cannot gain control of Praetoria, you can only dissolve(collapse) and start again. That is the hand-writing on the wall. Decide which side you are on – with us or the terrorists. It is that simple.

  113. “Better we work towards regaining control over the BBC than destroying it.”

    And how do we do that? Through our politicians? Oh dear!

    Without the utter falsehoods and false trails of the BBC’s independence, incorruptibility … whatever, of which traits only the BBC itself believes it possesses (like the Lords and Ladies wouldn’t fiddle their HoL expenses oh no) , everyone could at least refreshingly view the entire media with necessary critical questioning faculties operative.

    Broken Broadcasting Corp makes a mildly critical prog about some detestable figure, straight from Central Casting -picks at the margins of a putrid whole. Trump and the boys have been sold shifting sands, the people will ever own the foreshore, now he’s tilting at windmills.

  114. I write this in Spanish… I hope you understand
    Es por este tipo de cosas que vivimos en un país que ha tenido problemas políticos por tanto tiempo. Personalmente estoy cansada de ver cómo el mundo entero opina sobre algo que no conoce y no vive, el gobierno de Correa ha hecho que sea tangible su obra y esto es evidente cuando vas a hacer un trámite en una institución pública.
    Espero que Correa gane las elecciones y que por fin tengamos un país que sea libre, que no se deje manipular por intereses ajenos y peor aún de gente que ni siquiera sabe lo que es vivir en Ecuador.

  115. I always believed Assange was a convenient poster boy that manages to appease the armchair radicals – an apparently worthy distraction which draws our support and attention away from the bigger, more vital things going on in the world. He may be genuine but is it going to stop NATO imperialist hegemony? What Press TV, RT and others are doing are far more vital and worthy of our attention i would say. Still trying to work out why and in which embassy in Ecuador Andrea Davison has been staying as well,

    Signed,

    A naturally occuring fluctuating temperature believer and conspiracy factist,

    Chris Jones

  116. I put Marian’s post through Google translate (a bad tool by any standard)

    ‘For this kind of thing that we live in a country that has had political problems for so long. Personally I’m tired of seeing the world opinion on something that does not know and does not live, the Correa government has made it tangible his work and this is evident when you do a procedure in a public institution.
    I hope Correa wins the election and finally have a country that is free, you do not get manipulated by outside interests and worse of people do not even know what it is to live in Ecuador.’

  117. Marian

    Esperamos que Correa gane las elecciones

    =========================================

    Important contribution from Rowan Atkinson on reforming stupid repressive laws that benefit no one but those with something to hide:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gciegyiLYtY

  118. I can think of a few other bad tools. Ones with two legs that is. :)

  119. @Mark Golding
    I share your frustration and despair at the BBC. I curse it daily for it’s part in enabling the accelerating destruction of rights, decency and justice in the world. I would hate it for it’s part in Operation Cast Lead alone.

    However, if I am reading this country right, there is a long-running campaign in the rest of the British media to undermine and ultimately destroy the BBC. I don’t believe it’s a commercial motive because I don’t believe that media ownership is about money.

    As long as Murdoch views the BBC as an enemy, I will take some satisfaction that it’s a fly in his ointment. I wouldn’t go so far as to say the enemy of my enemy is my friend, but at least the BBC’s brand of lies is coming to us through a different set of filters from News International. Perhaps it is easier to see through the lies when we have 2 lie-providers to compare.

    If the BBC is destroyed, the rest of the media will fill the gap and we will certainly be no better off, probably worse .

  120. We are fighting against all black media here…
    but we got a very dark past in hands of corruption and despotism.. so we believe in Correa.
    CIA can´t write a different past behind our history, Rafael Correa is our future and we are walking in straight line

    Thank you for this article

  121. @Herbie

    (re. possibility that if Assange is really left on his own overnight, he could be snatched)

    I think it’s more difficult for Britain to mess with Ecuador these days. Any such messing would I’m sure result in sanctions of some description from a number of resource rich latin American countries. Were such messing to take place, I’m afraid it would only be with the private blessing of Ecuador.

    If I were Julian Assange, I wouldn’t want my life gambled on such calculations.

    Certainly there’d be no problem with the mainstream media and public opinion in the UK after such a nocturnal snatch, sold to the domestic market with the story that Julian Assange let himself out onto a communal stairwell, outside of the extra-territorial space, by accident, probably while sleepwalking or if not that, then he simply mistook the front door for the bathroom door while drowsy after an evening drinking wine.

    World-leading professors specialising in sleepwalking, editors of medical journals and with long records at London’s most prestigious teaching hospitals, would be wheeled on to say that sleepwalking is much more common than many lay people realise.

    Cases would be found where someone found his way not through 2 or 3 doors but through 25 doors and could remember nothing about it the next morning.

    If a local domestic servant staying nearby reported that they saw 15 well-built men wearing black masks and jerseys rush through the street entrance at 2.30am, and then rush back out again 10 minutes later carrying a person-sized item on a stretcher, don’t worry – the witness would soon be ‘exposed’ as a one-time prostitute (cf. Carmen Proetta), and illegal immigrant (cf. Jean-Charles de Menezes), or whatever. Or someone would be found who could tell a similar story, or a more lurid one, who also happened to have a record of making stuff up. Other would-be witnesses would be ‘visited’. Lock specialists would say that it was impossible to pick the lock from the outside in less than 4 hours, and so on.

    If embassy staff the next day found the print of a size-9 desert boot in the embassy corridor, well…the newspapers would be told to print the story that 3 plumbing firms and 2 different electricians had visited the embassy in the previous week, and they had managed to trace two guys who were wearing very similar boots. British officials would say that they fully accepted that what went on inside the embassy was a matter for the Ecuadorean authorities, and would say that those authorities were welcome to interview the men, rather than making accusations against HMG, if the men were willing to be interviewed.

    That kind of stuff.

    I think it would be mad to leave Assange on his own in the embassy during the night!

  122. @Cryptonym
    I take your point about a BBC-less news media being easier to recognise as the fraud it is.
    Do you agree with my analysis that the rest of the UK media is trying to destroy the BBC? If you do, can you suggest a motivation?

  123. Seems I’m under spam attack; who could have done that I wonder? Someone has attempted to sign me up to five mailing lists, including Infowars.

  124. Correa’s man offence, in the eyes of the US, was to insist on an audit of Ecuador’s National Debt. And then, when it revealed what such audits will reveal, an adjustment of payments.
    Any country which, faced with a ‘debt crisis’, does not take the basic step of reviewing both the make up of the debt and the way in which it accumulated is betraying its citizens in the interests of financiers, warmongers and, in many cases, criminals.
    It is amazing that neither Ireland,Greece nor Spain, for example, have made auditing the debt, publicly, a pre-condition to honouring it. It is impossible to believe that public opinion would not insist on such a policy being adopted if any political party were to promote it.

  125. N_

    Great stuff. The craft in delightful detail. Not saying it couldn’t happen, but it would be much more likely to happen were Assange not being backed by a state. It’s that which makes all the difference.

    Thing is we don’t know precisely what arrangements they’ve made at the embassy, but I’m sure such risk assessments will have been covered. Could be a few Ecuador military people hanging around for all we know, waiting to spank a few bobbie’s bums.

  126. Dick the Prick

    22 Oct, 2012 - 8:50 pm

    $87 million?

  127. The media landscape in Eucador would be relevant to the issue of interference in elections. Some questions come to mind, which perhaps some better informed posters would care to elaborate on:

    Is it dominated by print tabloids?
    What are the serious investigative papers like?
    To what extent do they have an online presence? Allow comments?
    To what extent are there alternative news sites and blogs of various kinds and associations?
    How tightly does the government control online media?

    More generally, what is the extent of internet availability to the general population – broadband/dialup/mobile etc.?

    How does this compare with similar nations – in particular, how did the effect of online media play out for Chavez?

    In the USA – have there been any recent position vacant notices for translators/analysts/”bloggers” fluent in Eucadorian?

  128. I am Ecuadorian and I’m quite sure Correa will will the coming presidential elections!! he will get at least 70% of votes!

  129. Que pena me dan las abndonadas ……una frase de un gran escritor,……….que es absolutamente referible a esta gente que no conoce lo que es vivir en un pais, donde la madre naturaleza por inspiracion de Dios nos dio todo lo mas grande que no poseen los comentaristas anteriores, o por lo memos la mayoria, es una gran cantidad de esbirristas oligarcas que no pueden ser gente de bien, sino mas bien gente de estrecho cerebro y pensamiento, egoismo mno puede ser lo que tienen sino mas bien egocentrismo, esos son muestras de la degradacion humana, No saben que en estos ultimos años Correa actua como un ser humano con miras a dar un mejor nivel de vida a los seres humanos y a la naturaleza incluso del mundo, (proyecto Yasuni) pero el ego no les permite ver mas alla de sus narices.
    Este es cambio de época, esta eradcandose y estraemos listos para defenderla sea quien sea el adversario, no nos volveremos a inclinar ante el imperio, solo les recuerdo que el imperio ya esta con un pie en el cadalzo.
    Nunca imaginaron que surgirian patriotas como Correa, como Chavez o como Evo, la America latina sera la proxima potencia del mundo sin EEUU, asi que cuidado con atrverse a intentyar sus miserias en esta tierra que hoy y para siempre sera un Ecuador Diferente, patriota, libertario, humano y solidario.Asta la victoria siempre compañeros

  130. rafael correa, hugo chavez and cristina fernandes, abuse the people the humans rights, they are abused people america

  131. Viva Ecaudor

    22 Oct, 2012 - 9:28 pm

    Amigos mios de habla castellano:

    Les agradezco muchisimo por comentar en este blog en favor de la independencia y la dignidad de los paises de latino america. Basta con las ordenes de los imperialistas norteamericanos. Basta con los tramos del CIA. Ya es hora que latinoamerica establezca su propia identidad sin la injerencia de Washington DC. Me da confianza y esperanza el liderazgo de mandatarios como Chavez, Morales y Correa.

    Un mundo mejor es posible.

    Con toda mi solidaridad,

    Un “pirata” britanico

  132. Kathy Da Silva

    22 Oct, 2012 - 9:33 pm

    Well…the 25 November Theresa May will be announcing/deciding on the relevance of some EAW’s because Cameron sees some of the requests as time waisting and expensive…surely..there’s some hope from this….no need for police if the request isn’t going to be honoured….though it’s true..also WW3 might break out at the end of the American elections on 6th Nove…the world might have some very different considerations…so I guess we have to keep digging for an answer too…

  133. MJ,

    It’s not so simple….
    If your plan depends on secrecy, how do you prove you are not a double, ensure it stays secret, and avoid repercussions? :-)

    N_,

    It is nice of you to try to encourage them to fall into such a simple trap, however, after the last attempt that was foiled by a live video stream and twitter campaign of supporters and aborted at the last minute, how do you plan to convince them that nothing will go wrong? Like some secure stream of live images of them breaking into the embassy door? Even a few CCTV frames, say from an adjoining embassy?

    Anyway, was that REALLY Lady Gaga seen leaving in a black cape and Witch’s hat? :-)

  134. Un mundo mejor es posible

    Yes!

    And hello to @evgueni, good to see you.

  135. Thank you for your message to us Viva ‘Ecaudor’.

    Castilian-speaking friends of mine:

    Thank you so much for commenting on this post in favor of independence and dignity of the countries of Latin America. Enough with the orders of the U.S. imperialists. Simply the sections of CIA. It is time for Latin America to establish its own identity without interference from Washington DC. It gives me confidence and hope the leadership of leaders like Chavez, Morales and Correa.

    A better world is possible.

    With all my sympathy,

    A “pirate” British

    ::::

    Unfortunately the same Google translator could not deal with Marco’s to make its meaning clear. Shame Esperanto never took off.

  136. That would be an amazing feat, and you’ll know for sure something went wrong, as Correa is consistently found to be the most popular president in the Americas.

    It’s true that the Ecuadorian private media is always trying to connect some type of corruption to Correa. Right now they are going after his second cousin, Pedro Delgado, but there’s nothing convincing so far.

    About a month ago there was an unusual surge of dangerous forest fires around Quito, largely found to be the result of arson (some reportedly started with Molotov cocktails). There were a number of theories, one being that it was a political conspiracy of sorts.

    Fyi, the 2 main US men in the upcoming elections are:

    – Lucio Gutierrez, former president, lapdog of the US embassy.
    – Guillermo Lasso, banker, informant of the US embassy.

    I know this (how else) thanks to Wikileaks.

  137. As an ecuadorian, currently living in ecuador and has since 31 years ago, Rafael Correa’s government has been one of the worse political, historic and social mistakes the country has faced in a long time.

    He manipulates justice and media for his own benefit to hide the corruption in all levels in this system he has implanted.

    If the CIA is planning to swamp correa, GOOD FOR US ECUADORIANS.

    We are currently witnessing how he and his people is shamelessly washing money through banks he owns and controls, and then he tries to cover the crime instead of punishing it.

    FUCK CORREA he is a dictator in the same way gadaffi was.

  138. Just read some of the comments supporting rafael correa. They are obviously paid to say so. It is unbelievable.

    This people has no education they are all brainwhased or paid to support him.

    I seriously think we, as a third world country with little or limited education, are fucking doomed to have dictators as presidents, such as correa.

    Look at Venezuela. Fucking third world country rich in oil and resources but Chavez controls it all.

    Ecuador, Venezuela and Argentina are all aligned to control the whole region and start a world war, they all have conections with terrorists like FARC, Hezbollah and Iran, can’t people see that???

  139. @Herbie,

    “Correa expelled a US amabassador, for terrorist activities.”

    Just to set the record straight, it was for meddling, which was discovered in cables published by Wikileaks of course. The ambassador, Heather Hodges, was passing back rumors about an allegedly corrupt police captain, and how Correa must have appointed him because he knew the guy was corrupt. Total fabrications.

    The police captain was temporarily removed from his job, thoroughly investigated, and cleared of any wrongdoing in the end. Of course, this was highly disruptive to the guy’s reputation and livelihood. Last I heard, he wanted to sue Wikileaks over the matter.

  140. Daniel, Venezuala isn’t perfect, but Chavez has done some remarkable things with literacy amongst the desperately poor, and popularised political enfranchisement. The constitution now is printed on bags of sugar and other food items.

    Criticism of human rights remains valid, I think, and whilst this may be in part a result of US attempts to sabotage Chavez’ popularity, such points do need answering.

    Your view does seem to be rather one-sided. It isn’t at all clear that supporters of genuinely leftist Latin American leader are paid or brainwashed – perhaps some people really believe these leaders to be a good thing? Chavez was re-elected on another good turnout recently, and the elections were fair as far as I know.

  141. This is great. Real whatitsallabout politics. Just like the good old days, before Thatch.

    Ooooooh..

    Viva la Quince Brigada!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pqsR0l16pc

  142. Jose, thanks for the elaboration.

    I’m sure that kind of meddling and interference would be seen as subversive in some quarters – do not pass go, straight to Guantanamo.

  143. Daniel, we cannot determine whether you really are in Ecuador, but if you are, then wishing for anti-democratic CIA involvement is not wise. It is generally best to place one’s trust in democratic processes, since they are more likely to represent the views of ordinary people than US-sponsored coups.

    I believe Wikipedia has a full list of US foreign interventions, if you are interested. Ditto William Blum, in his book “Rogue State”. The list doesn’t make for pleasant reading, if you believe that the will of the people should be respected.

  144. Correa’s been elected in elections found free and fair by international observers.
    http://eeas.europa.eu/eueom/pdf/missions/ecuador-final-report_2008_en.pdf
    The amnesty international reports do report torture, disappearances and murders by police of indigenous people who oppose mining and dam construction in Ecuador though – and even a case of a government minister shouting “you’re a dead man” at one campaigner against a development, so maybe a dictatorship in practice in some ways.

    Free elections but no right to life is not a democracy really. The question is whether Correa and his government are responsible for the torture and deaths or if it’s e.g policemen bribed by big companies and landowners

  145. Ben Franklin (Anti-intellectual Colonial American Savage version)

    22 Oct, 2012 - 11:00 pm

  146. Daniel

    Who do you support in Ecuador, or Venezuela?

  147. Ben Franklin (Anti-intellectual Colonial American Savage version)

    22 Oct, 2012 - 11:06 pm

  148. Ben Franklin (Anti-intellectual Colonial American Savage version)

    22 Oct, 2012 - 11:08 pm

    Working within existing corrupt systems, taints your integrity. Otherwise, you are operating at a disadvantage.

  149. A Node

    22 Oct, 2012 – 8:14 pm

    Do you agree with my analysis that the rest of the UK media is trying to destroy the BBC? If you do, can you suggest a motivation?

    I haven’t noticed the rest of the UK media trying to destroy the BBC, but only for lack of opportunity and any will to look for it, necessitating distasteful exposure to their content. The BBC have done a grand job of it entirely by their own efforts, needing no help from outside. I think there are obvious motivations for the powerful to kick this wounded but still dangerous animal, as there are for the powerless subjected to its nauseating spin and disinformation not to mourn its swift passing. The mandatory TV-tax and powers to kick in doors to enforce this absurdity are an intolerable erosion of basic liberties, this unsubtle extortion is so long entrenched we’re inured to its evils. Fear and shame is used to defame defaulters either unable to pay it or those who never watch the television and when they do object to being forced to pay up front specifically for the BBC elite’s mediocre output which is indistinguishable from and bland like all the rest. What is payed for reflects nothing of relevance use or interest to the lives of those who foot the bill.

    Even well-known anti-bbc/biased BBC websites are Zionist run honeypots. Why contend with opposition when you can be your own opposition.

  150. “Just read some of the comments supporting rafael correa. They are obviously paid to say so. It is unbelievable.”

    I could easily say this is pure projection. In all likelihood, though, this Daniel guy is a well-off Ecuadorian (evidently one who can write fluent English, probably educated abroad) who is threatened by the first Ecuadorian government that doesn’t pander to the elites.

    “This people has no education they are all brainwhased or paid to support him.”

    This is idiotic. To be the most popular president of the Americas, support from the (rapidly diminishing) poor and uneducated class of Ecuador is insufficient. With unemployment at 4.6% (latest figures), poverty in free fall, massive infrastructure investment, overhaul of the education system, political stability not seen for many years before Correa, what’s so hard to understand about Correa’s popularity? Even critics admit that Ecuador is going through a period of surprising growth. Why in the world would Correa need to pay people to support him?

    Correa is not perfect by any means. I could go on and on about what I believe to be mistakes, but is he the best president Ecuador has had in modern times? Uncontroversially, yes.

    BTW, see votaecuador.com for an online presidential survey. While we can all agree online surveys are not reliable, note a couple things: (1) They require you to have an old Twitter account to vote; (2) People with access to the internet in Ecuador are not in Correa’s primary demographic.

    If I wasn’t clear, I’m Ecuadorian too.

  151. Ben Franklin (Anti-intellectual Colonial American Savage version)

    22 Oct, 2012 - 11:18 pm

  152. A South American concept of nurture;

    Forget the politics and base our well being on betterment and understanding of what it is to to be part of this ocean of life.

    Grow and prosper and nurture the planet and create a better future for our children to enjoy.

    http://www.swaraj.org/shikshantar/ls2_genge.pdf

  153. Ben Franklin (Anti-intellectual Colonial American Savage version)

    22 Oct, 2012 - 11:21 pm

    I’ll be damned if I can figure his politics, but he makes valid points. I don’t think he’s a right-winger, even though his column originates in Miami, the pejorative ‘nest’ of anti-Castro Fascists.

  154. Duncan,

    “The amnesty international reports do report torture, disappearances and murders by police of indigenous people who oppose mining and dam construction in Ecuador though – and even a case of a government minister shouting “you’re a dead man” at one campaigner against a development, so maybe a dictatorship in practice in some ways.”

    What year? I’d like to see the report you’re referring to.

    Ecuador did have a problem with police brutality and disappearances back in the day, still with some isolated incidents. Currently police undergo human rights training and you don’t hear much about it anymore.

    I have read about human rights abuses against indigenous people who opposed mining projects, but that was in 2002 or even earlier. I think it’s important to distinguish the actions of the current government (2007 and later) from Ecuador’s past.

    What Amnesty accuses the current government of is arresting and charging demonstrators, sometimes with a charge of “terrorism”. I think the charge of “terrorism” is in fact misused, and that’s a valid criticism. But Amnesty gives the impression that demonstrations are always peaceful in Ecuador, which is incorrect. One of the cases involves manslaughter.

  155. A Node

    “We might not like the BBC, but we only need to observe the effort that, for example, the Murdoch empire put into undermining it, to realise that it has at least the potential to be a thorn in their side.”

    The Murdoch’s of this world don’t hate the BBC they want to undermine it so they can take it over; it has a worldwide reach and is funded by taxes.

    “Better we work towards regaining control over the BBC than destroying it.”

    We have never had control of the BBC it has always been the British State propaganda machine; far more powerful than the newspapers but doing the same job: misinforming the public in Britain and in countries overseas.

  156. A-Node,

    Comparing these news headlines:

    Telegraph: “British al-Qaeda gang from Birmingham planned ‘another 9/11′ in UK”

    BBC: “Men ‘planned mass suicide attack'”

    The prosecution claim “the men were “jihadists” and “extremists” who were influenced by an al-Qaeda affiliated preacher, Anwar al-Awlaki. Anwar al-Awlaki was ‘killed’ by a CIA drone 12 days before these men were arrested. The men have been in Belmarsh prison for over a year and this case is timed to coincide with calls from Washington that the Justice and Security Bill is fully implemented in civil cases involving so called ‘state secrets’ so that judges are vetted and the cases are held in secret behind closed doors.

    My sources tell me that MI6 is aware of a pool gang (50) of so called jihadists from Britain who have been recruited to fight in Syria against the Assad government. They have been trained to use and plant explosives, thus creating fear in Alawite communities supporting the government.

  157. Hi Jose – I was surprised too, as i’d previously got the impression indigenous indians were better off under Correa but Amnesty International’s 2012 report (covering 2011) mentions a lot of police violence, even including forced eviction, killings and disappearances, of indigenous people in Ecuador protesting against mining and other companies
    http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/ecuador/report-2012

    If you go to the amnesty website and go to library and do an advanced search with Ecuador as the country, you’ll find more, including some on torture and one on a government minister shouting “you’re a dead man” at one indigenous protester and another about a campaigner being shot in the head and killed

  158. One of the cases in the 2012 report involves the forced eviction of 1,700 indigenous people and bulldozing of their homes

  159. Of course , as with Chavez, he could still be the best / least bad President Ecuador has ever had – may have been much worse under his predecessors

  160. Is there any evidence about Craig comments?, or it is only one man comments? Sorry but to believe on it I need evidence.

    Please leave conspiracy theories as they really are, theories, even when evidence is presented.

    Español: Hay evidencia o pruebas que soporten estos comentarios?, o son solo comentarios de una persona. Disculpen pero para creer esto se necesitan pruebas.

    Favor dejar las teorias de conspiración como lo que son, solo teorías. Hasta cuando se presenten pruebas.

  161. Snap,

    The media landscape in Eucador would be relevant to the issue of interference in elections. Some questions come to mind, which perhaps some better informed posters would care to elaborate on:

    Is it dominated by print tabloids?

    Mostly: El Comercio, El Universo, El Hoy, La Hora (private outlets) and El Telegrafo (public outlet).

    What are the serious investigative papers like?

    Private media are basically the political opposition in Ecuador, since there are no strong opposition leaders at the moment.

    The quality is not necessarily very good. Correa is criticized for harassing and sometimes even suing private media outlets, and this is a valid criticism, but is also in part the result of poor journalism (i.e. making stuff up.)

    To what extent do they have an online presence? Allow comments?

    All have online presence. All generally allow comments. (El Comercio temporarily shut down theirs recently while they implement a different system that they can better control, and this is one of many controversies in Ecuador.)

    To what extent are there alternative news sites and blogs of various kinds and associations?

    You mean, not mainstream? I don’t think that works in Ecuador the way you’re used to. I can’t think of any type of blog that would be considered too radical.

    How tightly does the government control online media?

    I’d say, very little. Prior censorship is prohibited constitutionally.

    More generally, what is the extent of internet availability to the general population – broadband/dialup/mobile etc.?

    I understand it’s about 30%.

    How does this compare with similar nations – in particular, how did the effect of online media play out for Chavez?

    Can’t say.

  162. @moderator: Anyone who choices to label people, who don’t buy into their theory, a “denialist”, is clearly a conformist. Please keep your dogma to yourself.

  163. Jose

    What is the main demographic vehicle for Correa, or even just for his ideas?

    Are the professional class involved? Are there those from wealth who have turned to support him. If so to what extent?

    What is the demographic for those who will lose in democracy, and are they declining?

  164. I doubt very much that U.S senators believed that Chavez would lose. He was ahead in every poll, except the ones linked to the Capriles campaign. Those polls have also been consistently wrong in other elections.

    I recommend this great article on the recent election:

    http://news.yahoo.com/breaking-political-echo-chamber-venezuela-184843910.html

  165. Duncan,

    Hi Jose – I was surprised too, as i’d previously got the impression indigenous indians were better off under Correa but Amnesty International’s 2012 report (covering 2011) mentions a lot of police violence, even including forced eviction, killings and disappearances, of indigenous people in Ecuador protesting against mining and other companies
    http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/ecuador/report-2012

    There is some disturbing information in there that I wasn’t aware of, but after reading all of it, I think you’re not characterizing it accurately. It seems that 5 or so indigenous people protesting the construction of a dam were injured, but the report doesn’t claim there were killings and disappearances of indigenous people. Separately, 12 police officers were convicted in the torture (police brutality) of 3 people, and the disappearance of one more. (Yes, authorities do get brought to justice for torture in Ecuador, go figure.) I do find the short sentences in that case to be reprehensible, but I’m not familiar with the case. The rest of the cases are about incidents that happened a long time ago, or about apparently ordinary murders, arrests, lawsuits, etc.

    Of course, no one is claiming that Ecuador is no longer a third world country. And it clearly still has some challenges with law and order. It’s important to distinguish state actions from actions carried out by state actors (like criminal elements in the police force.)

  166. Jose: So who decides what theories are OK to discuss? Technically the official theory of 9/11 is also a conspiracy theory. You should learn to respect other people’s opinions. Everybody doesn’t agree with your dogma.

  167. Dan,

    Jose: So who decides what theories are OK to discuss?

    I don’t know what you’re talking about. Are you perhaps addressing Jorge instead?

  168. “Is there any evidence about Craig comments?, or it is only one man comments? Sorry but to believe on it I need evidence.

    Please leave conspiracy theories as they really are, theories, even when evidence is presented.”

    Well Craig is a most famous and celebrated whistleblowing ex-diplomat and he reported in this post information from a knowledgeable contact. I believe expert testimoney from respected sources is a substantial kind of evidence/information.

    There are theories and there are silly tales, whether they involve conspiracy or not, does not determine their seriousness.

  169. What is the main demographic vehicle for Correa, or even just for his ideas?

    Besides the poor, I’m pretty sure people with progressive and anti-neo-liberal views, and those who value sovereignty, would tend to prefer Correa over his opposition, despite his flaws.

    Are the professional class involved? Are there those from wealth who have turned to support him. If so to what extent?

    He must have substantial support in the middle class, although I haven’t seen polls to that effect. Rumor has it that even the wealthy are sort of loving him (though still ideologically opposed to him) because of the economic “bonanza” Ecuador is going through at the moment.

    What is the demographic for those who will lose in democracy, and are they declining?

    Not sure what you mean. The demographic of his opposition? Those who don’t like Correa’s taxes, want to be closer to the US, been affected economically in some way, feel Correa is more authoritarian than predecessors, etc.

  170. @Jose: Yes I meant Jorge, sorry.

  171. Thanks, Jose.

    What exactly is the alternative to Correa?

  172. @Herbie,

    What exactly is the alternative to Correa?

    Alberto Acosta, a key proponent of the 2008 constitution, and formerly a member of Correa’s movement, is ideologically similar to Correa, but unproven.

    All the other major candidates are right-wing (albeit often portraying themselves as leftists) and would surely undo most of what Correa has done, including the rather progressive constitution we have now.

    Assange would be on a plane to Sweden in a matter of months with most of them, maybe even with Acosta.

  173. Is Acosta an opponent of Correa now? How does he differentiate himself from Correa?

    The rest are the usual CIA death squad gang from the old days?

  174. Hi Jose – still forced demolition of 1,700 peoples’ homes by bulldozer and them left homeless, with violence against some of those resisting by police – and the cases mentioned on the annual report page are in addition to other reports from previous months and years

    If you look here and scroll down to ‘search results’ there are more reports
    http://www.amnesty.org/en/ai_search?keywords=&show_advanced=true&title=&ai_index=&sort=date&start_datedate=&end_datedate=&region0=1899&languageen=en&document_typesreports=reports&document_typespress_materials=press_materials&document_typesurgent_actions=urgent_actions&document_typesaudio_video=audio_video&document_typesevent=event&document_typesother=other&form_build_id=form-5a7f2043556fdf9ec0261c65ef38ba63&form_id=amnestysearch_filters_form&op=Search

    However i agree that not all of this is necessarily approved by Correa. There may well be corruption by police bribed by companies and wealthy landowners at a lower level.
    The death threat to one campaigner against a development by a government minister in 2009 sounds pretty serious though, especially since some campainers are killed
    http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/info/AMR28/002/2009/en

    I still think Correa’s government is better / less bad than most of it’s predecessors, as with Chavez in Venezuela – and that some of the violence is probably not ordered by Correa’s government. It doesn’t mean we should look the other way or shrug where Chavez or Correa are involved though.

  175. Correa and Acosta developed some differences during the constitutional assembly that resulted in the 2008 constitution. Acosta was president of the assembly. It’s early to tell, but I’m guessing Acosta will run as someone who will continue Correa’s massive social investment, but who will be less authoritarian. But the thing is that Acosta is not well known, and it’s unclear that he’ll be nearly as competent as Correa.

    The rest are the usual CIA death squad gang from the old days?

    :)

    Cable 05QUITO850 will tell you what Lucio Gutierrez is all about. Cable 07QUITO768 shows what Guillermo Lasso was doing early on to coordinate opposition to Correa, while dutifully informing the US embassy of it at every step.

  176. Jose, (12:10 am)

    thank you for your informative reply on the media landscape in Ecuador. Interesting, so not really any blogs like this one, or from NGOs or political groups. Maybe you should start one before the CIA does :-)

    If that indicates only around 30% of the population have some form of web access, then the print media may at least not be suffering financial decline and layoff of journalists quite yet, and have an important influence.

    What is the TV and radio landscape like, and is it cross-owned with press?

  177. Look at these figures from recent polls for the 2013 elections in Ecuador. Following your argument, the CIA must do something extreme in order to turn these numbers around:

    Perfiles de opinion (sept. 29-30 2012): Rafael Correa 61.7%, Guillermo Lasso 12.6%, Lucio Gutierrez 3.6%, Alberto Acosta 2.6%, Alvaro Noboa 1.8%

    CEDATOS (oct. 7 2012): Rafael Correa 44%; Guillermo Lasso 18%; Lucio Gutiérrez 6,9%; Alberto Acosta 6,5%; Álvaro Noboa 2,3%

    In other words, most Ecuadorians (by far) support Correa. In one of the most politically unstable countries in Latin America (and probably the world) such support after 5 years in office is unheard of. He must be doing something right, I guess.

  178. http://upsidedownworld.org/main/

    Is a good source for news from Latin America. The archives include articles on the years since 2007 when Correa was first elected.

  179. what a cosy environment………

  180. Paul David Pope discovered his grandfather and father had mafia and CIA connections, and ran or buried stories for the CIA in their New York newspaper which eventually became The National Enquirer. He wrote a book about it, and gave many interviews in 2010.

    “The Deeds of My Fathers: How My Grandfather and Father Built New York and Created the Tabloid World of Today.” Paul David Pope.
    http://www.thedeedsofmyfathers.com

    (also search Generoso Pope, Jr)

  181. Viva Ecuador

    23 Oct, 2012 - 3:56 am

    To Daniel:

    It is tempting to believe that those of us who support Rafael Correa are paid agents of Hugo Chavez or the Castro regime. In my case, the truth is rather boring. I cannot stand the hypocrisy of the US War on Drugs nor the impact of the undeclared War on Culture against Latin America. Latin America does not need to adopt “the values” of the US. Contrary to what we are told, rampant obesity, ignorance and gun ownership are not the be-all-and-end-all of life.

    If Venezuela wants to have good relations with Iran, that is none of the US’ business. If Brazil and Turkey want to get together to promote a solution to the nuclear stand-off in Iran, again – that is their right. If Evo Morales and Hugo Chavez decide to cut diplomatic relations with Israel, then too damn bad for the AIPAC lobby and it zombies in the US Congress. And if Cristina Kirchner chooses to meet with Iranian officials at the UN, then tough. Get used to it.

    The US does not control the world. The US has no mandate to control the world.

    It’s called reality. Deal with it.

  182. Alternative endgames to the standoff could be based on changes to the case in Sweden, such as ousting the prosecutor on misconduct charges or by pressure to take early retirement, or through uncovering the political interference behind the changing narratives of the accusers in the initial weeks. You will find some discussions on page 4 and 5 of an earlier thread.

    Are any Swedish readers interested in helping to bridge the language barrier on various new documents and discussions to help these progress?

    An article in The Observer on the weekend about another judicial scandal in Sweden highlights how bad it is. For an elaboration of the common player with the Assange case, see this posting in the earlier thread:

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/09/why-i-am-convinced-that-anna-ardin-is-a-liar/comment-page-5/#comment-374075

    On the matter of “bringing the Swedish judicial process into widespread disrepute or ridicule”, this has taken a step forward in the international arena this weekend with the publication by award winning journalist Elizabeth Day in The Observer on the Thomas Quick scandal slowly unravelling in Sweden.
    ….

  183. Raúl Vásquez

    23 Oct, 2012 - 6:02 am

    Agradezco al autor de esta noticia, ha dado la vuelta al mundo al menos esa es mi percepción, confío en la unidad latinoamericana y ya es un hecho: Bolivia, Venezuela y Ecuador mi país.

    Espero y estoy seguro del triunfo de nuestro presidente Rafael Correa en las próximas elecciones en 2013. Me animé a dejar este comentario ya que algunos que hablamos español, y coincido por ejemplo con “Marian” y “Viva Ecaudor”

    Espero se vele por la vida y la salud de quienes hicieron posible que esta noticia llegue hasta nosotros y por los mandatarios Evo Morales, Hugo Chávez y Ec. Rafael Correa.

    Apoyo incondicional a la Revolución Ciudadana y al presidente Correa.

    ¡Hasta la Victoria Siempre!

    http://youtu.be/0O7CnUtFwU8

  184. Nice to see democracy alive and well and the Ecuadorian people getting a fair election. The hypocrisy of the USA gets worse on a daily basis.

    Oh and CIA supporters in the UK? Good luck finding any round my way

  185. “the policy was simply to wait for the Presidential election in Ecuador in February.”

    I see, so the upcoming US election in Novemeber are irrelevant? How about I bet you £10,000 of your English pounds that if Rmoney (sic) is elected the Assange ‘issue’ will simply move to the back pages before disappearing for good?

    Assange is an agent of Zionism.

  186. James Chater

    23 Oct, 2012 - 9:11 am

    “I have been struck by the naivety of those who ask why the United States could not simply request Assange’s extradition from the United Kingdom.”
    Craig, don’t “ad personam” your own supporters! I was one of the people who posed the question, and it was a genuine request for information and perspective, not a pro-CIA or partisan attempt to score points. I too am upset about the whole wikileaks and Assange affair, and would hate to see a pro-CIA president installed in Ecuador.
    Please try to be patient with those of us who don’t have your political or diplomatic insider knowledge!

  187. Seriously guys.

    1.) I am not Scouse Billy

    2.) I am concerned that the TOR network, which claims to have around 1,000 exit nodes in operation at any time, seems to allocate the same exist node for both my posts and Scouse Billy’s.

    3.) TOR is not inherently insecure. Connections are routed through multiple nodes so it shouldn’t in theory matter if any single node is compromised, or even a collection of nodes. However the more nodes owned by the intel community the higher the risk of a complete path being uncovered

    4.) TOR should really only be used to connect to secure endpoints. Craig, given the content of your site and the likelihood that people may want to get messages to you under the radar you should really move to secure HTTP.

    5.) I did not intend to be antagonistic, nor think my position is over-stated. The simple fact is that extradition from Sweden on political, intelligence-related or military charges – TO ANY COUNTRY – is in theory impossible and has antagonised the US before, during the cold war years.

    6.) Given (5) it is reasonable to deduce that there was no “plot” to extradite Assagne via Sweden – that’s not to say there was no plot, period. And my original post should not be taken as views for or against Wikileaks or the CIA.

    7.) It is a statement of fact that Assange’s position has already been damaged, perhaps irreparably. Other commentators above note how.

    8.) There are sections of the public who will accept the prosecution of Manning but not Assange. People who support free speech and a free press do not necessarily disagree with servicemen and agents being bound to protect national secrets. In effect it’s a game with rules, with Assange on one side of the fence and Manning on the other.

    9.) It is absurd to get entrenched on this issue, Craig, despite trusting your A1 sources. I’m under no doubt people will be blowing significant smoke in your direction. Besides, I’m not questioning the bulk of your assertions, merely some of your conclusions.

    10.) “There is no endgame” is the most credible comment above. I’m absolutely convinced any attempt to extradite Assange to America is either smoke and mirrors, opportunist or at the very least unrelated to a sex sting. Which may or may not be a sting, but it has backed Assange into a corner and alienate himself from half of his supporters.

    11.) Another valid comment above relates to the absurdity of Wikileaks becoming about Assange rather than leaking. One unintended consequence of any US/UK plot to discredit Assange could be what rises from the ashes. A Reddit-style website with completely decentralised architecture and moderation would be a game-changer. It would link directly the public to the whistle-blower, whilst stories are “voted” up or down by the masses to ensure anything interesting rises to the top of the pile. This I imagine must scare section heads, absolutely no opportunity for redacting to protect sources.

    12.) Because of the threat from (11) one would think Western governments would move to widen Freedom of Information laws, thereby learning to work in a way that is more open in order to protect the small amount of information which truly deserves protecting. But alas no, which is why I have decided to contribute to the debate.

  188. James

    Naive is not a particularly bad thing to be! :-)

  189. That depends: if you are le douanier Rousseau, no!

  190. @Chris2 – interesting info on the audit of Ecuador’s national debt, which if Venezuela is anything to go by, presumably brought to light huge financial robbery, with the spoils going in the direction of the US. Do you know who conducted the audit?

    The reason I ask is that if it were Greece, Ireland, or Spain, the audit would probably be done by one of the Big Four accountancy firms (Price Waterhouse Cooper, Deloitte, Ernst & Young, and KPMG), who are among the biggest crooks out.

    These firms (or ‘networks’) don’t just assist others to build secretive structures; they also have their own secretive structures. It’s interesting that 3 of them are coordinated from the little ol’ UK. Nicholas Shaxson writes about that angle in his excellent ‘Treasure Islands’ (which explains e.g. how in the 1980s it was the US that adopted the tax-haven-based UK banking model).

  191. Leonidas Moreno Ordóñez

    23 Oct, 2012 - 12:31 pm

    Vamos a defender la Soberanía ecuatoriana, los problemas políticos son nuestros y nosotros los vamos a resolver. El imperialismo y su brazo ejecutor del mal la CIA acompañada de organizaciones somo la AID y USAID son los brazos económicos y de pantalla para penetrar de forma hipócrita en nuestra sociedad, tienen algunos agentes dentro de nuestro país, que reciben dinero a cambio de la traición a su patria y eso los tenemos identificados, sabemos que tienen rostro de periodistas y además tienen ONGS, tienen rostros de políticos que están dentro de las organizaciones otrora de izquierda pero en la actualidad al servicio del imperialismo, tienen rostro de emisarios de paz pero tras su mascara esta la muerte, se presentan con rostro de ayuda humanitaria pero lo que hacen es tratar de dividir a nuestra sociedad y por último tienen rostro de empresarios prósperos que lo único que son es testaferros de imperio en nuestro país.
    Nuestro Patria, está lista para emprender una jornada nacionalista y soberana. Siempre tuvimos claro que el enemigo interno tiene financiamiento y orientación norteamericana y no es nuevo para nosotros saber que en cada triunfo que hemos obtenido en esta Revolución Ciudadana a sido una puñalada para el imperialismo, que mientras gozabamos nuestro 8 triunfos ciudadanos, el águila del norte se daba contra el piso llorando su derrota.
    La patria de Alfaro, de Daquilema, de Cumbicos, de Miltón Reyes, de Tránsito Amaguaña, la patria Grande de Bolivar y del Che Guevara, estamos más unidos que nunca para continuar en nuestro camino al Socialismo del Buen Vivir.
    La tarea a cumplir por el pueblo ecuatoriano es la reelección de Rafael Correa en febrero del 2013 y alcanzar una mayoria en la Asamblea Nacional (Camara de Diputados)
    VIVA NUESTRO PRESIDENTE RAFAEL CORREA
    VIVA LA REVOLUCIÓN CIUDADANA
    VIVA EL ECUADOR SOBERANO Y NACIONALISTA
    ¡¡ HASTA LA VISTORIA SIEMPRE !!

  192. Michael Stephenson

    23 Oct, 2012 - 12:33 pm

    Regarding Inside Mann suggestion that the site should be using https.
    Free SSL certs are available here: https://www.startssl.com/ they aren’t business grade obviously and won’t have a green bar are the top of your browser, but the browser won’t throw a massive hissy fit like they do when they see a self signed cert.
    And they will allow your users to send and receive only encrypted traffic to and from your webserver.

    https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere

  193. Inside mann
    The simple fact is that extradition from Sweden on political, intelligence-related or military charges – TO ANY COUNTRY – is in theory impossible

    Not sure what you mean. The Swedes have form for simply stuffing people on planes and shipping them off without regard to any sort of law. The Americans have form for kidnapping people from supposedly friendly nations, stuffing them on planes and shipping them off.

    If extradition of Assange from Sweden is impossible, why don’t the Swedes give him an assurance to that effect?

  194. @Inside-Mann – my “over-stated” claim was unfair, I just appreciate much of your position but not the final conclusion.

    I wouldnt worry about the coinciding tor nodes, tor optimises for performance and final nodes will tend to be used which are closer in network space to the destination server. This blog will have thousands of tor routed comments in its logs and many of these will share te same tor exits.

  195. Snap,

    What is the TV and radio landscape like, and is it cross-owned with press?

    There are no channels that are primarily news & opinion. Teleamazonas and Ecuavisa are the main private channels. Their pundits do political opposition, much like columnists in private print media. There’s Ecuador TV, a public or state-run channel. There’s also Gama and TC, which are state-owned but self-funded. Gama and TC used to be private outlets but they were seized by the state because they were owned by two bankers who are fugitives of Ecuadorian justice following the 1999 banking collapse.

    In Ecuador we have the following problem: Private media almost never has anything positive to say about the government, and public media almost never has anything negative to say. It’s 100% polarized. This shows that it’s easy to control the message without the need for explicit conspiracies. Hiring decisions and self-censorship work well enough.

    It’s better to have access to the 2 perspectives, though. And in some sense we still have something that looks like a watchdog press.

  196. Craig, your post has been picked up by El Telegrafo, ecuadorinmediato.com, Ecuavisa, Telesur (a Venezuelan cable news outlet), and it seems to be generating quite a bit of interest (and rage) locally.

  197. Shona Duncan

    23 Oct, 2012 - 4:52 pm

    Thank goodness the President of Ecuador got the south America leaders on his side. If any ill were to befall the President I’m sure another South American country would step in and save the day by offering Julian Assange asylum.

  198. Ben Franklin (Anti-intellectual Colonial American Savage version)

    23 Oct, 2012 - 4:57 pm

    Jose;

    Many of us don’t speak Spanish. Would you translate the piece?

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