Fascist Switzerland Strikes back

by craig on March 4, 2013 10:53 am in Uncategorized

Switzerland will still go to any lengths to protect the ultra-rich dictators and mafia who flock there. Mutabar Tadjibaeva – multiple rape victim, survivor of repeated torture and still dogged human rights activist, is wanted for questioning by Geneva Police for the crime of ringing the bell of Gulnata Karimova’s 25 million dollar house and asking to speak to her.

That is absolutely all she did. I know, as I was there and did it too. We both left our visiting cards, took some photos from the streets so the children of Uzbekistan could see where the profits from their slave labour in the cotton fields went, and then we left on the bus, as we came.

Uzbekistan is the World’s sixth most corrupt country according to Transparency International. I doubt one in ten of the houses in Cologny is bought with earned money. This is Gulnara’s 25 million dollar home, with the cranes then building a massive extension at the back.

I can understand that Gulnara does not want people to know she lives at 7 Rue Prevote (both e’s have acutes), Cologny, Geneva. A weird, weird village that also houses Gulanara’s sister Lola and the children of the Presidents of Kazakhstan and Armenia, among others. There are lterally thousands of CCTV cameras. At this time of year none of the homewoners are there, just security guards in Adidas wear. The only noise is the barking of guard dogs. The 4 wheel drive Porsches, Range Rovers and Mercedes G wagons are sat still and cold on the drives.

That a speaker at the FIDH human rights film festival is harassed in this way is bad enough. But Mutabar was also there to give formal depositions in human rights cases to the United Nations. That dictatorships can use the Geneva police to harass dissidents visitng the UN is scarcely healthy.

Switzerland attempted to clean up its image as the repository of illegal cash by adopting anti money-laundering legislation. But that legislation specifically exempts real estate – you can buy your Cologny mansion without having in any way to declare how you got all that cash. The ever corrupt Swiss exempted it because Switzerland makes money from it. Outbreaks of democracy on the streets of Cologny are liable to be bad for property values – hence the interest of the Geneva police, in the world’s best disguised fascist state.

I wonder in I can interest Occupy and the human rights groups in an annual summer camp for activists at Cologny? Let’s give the Geneva police some more difficult field of anti-democratic harassment than a small torture victim.

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176 Comments

  1. Well done Craig and friend.

    Can we see the photos anywhere?

    This is the Google map short URL for that address. No street view – what a surprise. http://goo.gl/maps/tI2cK It looks like a building site with the crane etc. Is it the one next door?

    Occupy Connaught Street too. Mr and Mrs Bliar’s home, or the main one to be correct.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2204154/Tony-Blair-takes-4-2m-loan-central-London-des-res-U-S-bank-advises.html

    Should be easy to spot from the plod presence outside. His protection costs the taxpayers £250k pa and I bet that is an understatement.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2192814/Blairs-400-000-year-taxpayers-Multi-millionaire-ex-PM-enjoys-perks-pension.html

  2. There seems to be an absence of snapshots on google maps of this particular location, I sense it may be your civic duty to place your location shots of the dwelling into the public domain, so we can all enjoy the view.

  3. KarimovaRevengeFantasist

    4 Mar, 2013 - 11:17 am

    The address is No. 7 Chemin de la Prévôté, Cologny, Geneva. Put it in Google maps and use Street View to see the tower crane and the building work that was being done at the time. Also check out her sister’s place across the golf course at No. 14 Chemin Vert, Vandoeuvres, Geneva. While Uzbeks struggle to get forex at the official rate, these two crooks don’t seem to have any problem. The article in L’Hebdo here tells how Lola and her husband overpaid by about 20m Swiss francs (7000 per sq metre when the going rate was half that). Andrew Rosenfeld (yes, one of our Labour party supporters), the vendor probably did not have 24 carat gold loo seats, so I guess the overpayment on the price really was an overpayment due to the easy availability of funds from theft.

  4. Pete

    Don’t worry we will! Absence on google somewhat intersting.

  5. …. the film ‘looking for Gulnara’ coming soon, promise…

  6. Well done! Respect to you and Mutabar for your demonstration against a country which harbours criminals of all nationalities, and protects their ill-gotten gains from being returned to those from whom they stole them.

  7. KarimovaRevengeFantasist

    4 Mar, 2013 - 11:51 am

    The link I forgot is here

    http://www.hebdo.ch/la_saga_des_karimova_77690_.html

    “our Labour party…” should have been “your Labour party… ”

    “Switzerland attempted to clean up its image as the repository of illegal cash by adopting anti money-laundering legislation. But that legislation specifically exempts real estate – you can buy your Cologny mansion without having in any way to declare how you got all that cash. The ever corrupt Swiss exempted it because Switzerland makes money from it. ”

    There is a Swiss law to prevent people using money derived from crime to set up home there. Gulnara and Lola may have circumvented scrutiny of their funds by having UN and UNESCO jobs that come with an automatic “autorisation valable de séjour”. There was a formal written question asked by a Mme Lydia Schneider Hausser about it here:

    http://www.ge.ch/grandconseil/data/…/IUE01175A.pdf

  8. Gulnara doesn’t exactly get a good press in the West, nor does her father. If I were them I’d be a bit worried as to the longevity of their operation. It’s almost as if they’re being set up for a future fall.

    Apparently she doesn’t like being called a “dictator’s daughter”.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/01/12/songs-of-a-tyrant-meet-googoosha-dictators-daughter-and-pop-star/

  9. Kudos old boy !!

  10. KarimovaRevengeFantasist 4 Mar, 2013 – 11:17 am

    I did in the first comment and left a link. There is no street view only the satellite overhead view.

    PS and OT The Cleggovers are using the same school as the Bliars for their eldest child, The London Oratory, a Catholic state school we are told.

  11. Uzbek in the UK

    4 Mar, 2013 - 1:05 pm

    Not to say anything bad about all Swiss nationals but Switzerland is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. Yes, yes. Corruption has many faces. It could be blunt and brutal like in Uzbekistan or it could be modern or (white collar) like in Switzerland. Swiss economy is so adopted the nature of money laundering (financial operations in Swiss language) that they are totally depended on this nowadays. It was bad enough when in 70th and 80th Soviet Communist party high flyers ‘invested’ in Switzerland it is much worse now when almost all dictatorships in the world have accounts in Swiss banks and set up companies in Switzerland.

    I am afraid that Swiss government will do nothing against it. It is too important for Switzerland and they care too LITTLE about Human Rights in places like Uzbekistan.

  12. Oh, diddums you. The Swiss population is no more incensed about stuff that doesn’t directly affect them than say, the population of the UK, USA or some other shamocracy. How dare they be the same as us i.e. human. Your use of ‘fascist’ in the title is curious to say the least – feeling emotional? If fascist is reserved for Switzerland, what is left for the truly anti-democratic regimes like the EU and its founding member states.

  13. Above directed at Craig’s article, not Uzbek.

  14. Uzbek,
    have you got a source for all the corruption stuff in the Swiss financial sector? The thing is, although the Swiss in general are probably not all that interested in foreign dictators’ money, they are nowhere near as politically apathetic as people in the UK, and unlike people in the UK they can affect change. So in principle, foreign dictators should not be any more welcome there than say the UK, Luxemburg or any other tax haven.

  15. However the Swiss have just voted to cap executive pay:

    http://www.euractiv.com/euro-finance/swiss-vote-executive-pay-curbs-news-518209

    ‘mon the Swiss.

  16. Evgueni

    You fail entirely to address the question of why the Geneva police wish to question Mutabar Tadjibaeva

  17. They look like big houses! Before my system went down I had discovered that if you leave the 7 off the street name Google maps give it. We just need to know in what direction to go when the Chemin de la Prévôté, Cologny, Geneva meets Ch. Cheneviére-Munier when Ch. Cheneviére-Munier. Advice please Mr. Murray.

  18. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 3:08 pm

    Evgeuni’s comments have much merit and I second them.

    “Fascist” Switzerland? I don’t think so.

    Your post comes at a particularly curious time when you note that Switzerland is the first country to vote – by popular initiative referendum (this feature of the Swiss Consitution itself being the very antithesis of fascism)a limitation – to limit the amount of money executives can pay themselves and to limit bonuses and golden handshakes and goodbyes to a more decent amount.

    *********

    La vita è bella (ed anche la Svizzera!)

  19. Correction:

    They look like big houses! Before my system went down I had discovered that if you leave the 7 off the street name Google maps shows it. We just need to know in what direction to go when the Chemin de la Prévôté, Cologny, Geneva meets Ch. Cheneviére-Munier, when Ch. Cheneviére-Munier is on the right. Advice please Mr. Murray.

  20. Evgueni, I’ve always appreciated your comments about Direct Democracy in Switzerland, and I tend to accept your arguments that it improves matters for the Swiss. But the substance of Craig’s post highlights a general failing of nation-state democracy; no matter how good it is, no matter how much it heightens citizen involvement within a country, the voters have decreasing direct experience of their country’s influence the further you look beyond their border. For international matters, the feedback process is degraded.

    This does not imply that direct democracy has zero influence upon foreign policy. Matters concerning, for instance, the sending of troops to fight in distant lands, have routes of direct feedback upon the home population, as it is citizens themselves and their friends and relatives who would be sent to fight. But we would expect the effectiveness of the feedback to be diminished beyond the voting boundary.

    Direct Democracy for the entire globe!

  21. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 3:16 pm

    @ Craig (Murray) :

    You say that someone is wanted for questioning for the “crime” of ringing a doorbell. To classify ringing a doorbell as a crime would indeed be strange : can you enlighten us as to which article of the Swiss Penal Code this action might fall under; idem which article of any of the codes of the Canton or City of Génève?

    Furthermore, I believe it is legal – in Switzerland as in most other countreis – to protect your home with CCTV cameras, guard dogs or any other means provided that these means are not contrary to law. Are these meaans contrary to Swiss law?

  22. Geneva’s an absolute toilet, been once, won’t go again.

  23. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 3:27 pm

    “Geneva’s an absolute toilet, been once, won’t go aqain”

    Relevance, DtP ?

  24. Let’s not forget that Switzerland’s corruption surfaced big-time during the Iran-Contra scandal, and was not cleaned up by the Swiss legislature or the American Congress, especially John Kerry’s most limited sub-committee inquiry into the massive plot.

    Geneva became the center of the cover-ups when Uwe Barschel, the former premier of West Germany’s Schleswig-Holstein, was murdered in Geneva’s Beau-Rivage Hotel, for wanting answers for Iran-Contra’s use of the province for Its illegal arms shipments. CiA’s Executive Action Chief Ted ‘Blond Ghost’ Shackley apparently lured him there, and had him drugged, and a deadly suppository put up his anus which killed him. He was found, floating in the bathroom tub.

    His murder had been caused by the fiasco which was triggered by the assassination of Sweden’s Olof Palme – what was intended to end the Cold War without nuclear armageddon – and those in the know were dropping like flies or were being rounded up for life-long prison terms to avoid disclosure of the the vast fiasco.

    Barschel would probably have been lured to a hotel in Cologny, but doesn’t have any. The Beau Rivage was only than two miles away, making it the ideal site for the state-sponsored assassination, more and more of which are drawing renewed interest in their unsolved or inadequately solved status.

    Given the USA’s central role in all this, particularly Kerry’s efforts, it doesn’t look like Washington will want to do much about any of it.

  25. Well at least the buses and trains run on time…

  26. Ha! P Philip said that apparently about the Third Reich.

    Prince Philip pictured at Nazi funeral
    by ANDREW LEVY, Daily Mail

    Last updated at 09:17 06 March 2006

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-379036/Prince-Philip-pictured-Nazi-funeral.html

  27. Craig, it’s an interesting situation. Presumably, the police wish to question Mutabar Tadjibaeva because someone at Karimova’s house has made a complaint, presumably fabricated. But the police apparently don’t wish to question you, and yet you were a witness. Probably, the complaint didn’t mention you, for obvious reasons.

    Could this be a silly assumption by the people at Karimova’s house that if you report an “undesirable”, the police will inevitably drag them in and intimidate them, like they would back home? If house security did submit a complaint, the police may have a duty to investigate, even though the complaint was dishonest.

    I’ve read the article by using Guugel Tronslaight, but I’m not sure how to interpret the words “convene” and “mandate”.

  28. Uzbek in the UK

    4 Mar, 2013 - 3:46 pm

    Evgueni

    It is interesting that you question me on this instead of doing some very basic research on the internet and finding a lot more than below.

    http://www.avaaz.org/en/stealing_from_haiti

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/03/switzerland-identifies-1bn-dictators-assets

    http://www.dailypressdot.com/former-arab-dictators-have-money-in-swiss-banks/757033/

    http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-Issues/2011/0225/Swiss-freeze-Qaddafi-assets-How-dictators-stash-their-cash-101

    http://en.novayagazeta.ru/politics/8654.html

    And also ‘Currently an estimated 28 percent of all funds held outside the country of origin (sometimes called “offshore” funds) are kept in Switzerland’. Guess whose money are this?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Switzerland

  29. Uzbek in the UK

    4 Mar, 2013 - 3:55 pm

    Clark,

    You are right of course that honest swiss police need to investigate a claim made by most certain dishonest people.

    The irony here is that they (honest swiss police) are going to interrogate the victim of multiple physical as well as psychological abuse by the very people who made this (possibly dishonest claim). The bottom line here is that for swiss police (and presumably the government) it is much more convenient (or honest) to deal with people whose hands are deep in human blood (but also whose accounts are in multimillion swiss franks) than with those who suffer abuse and want to just speak to some of their abusers and (possibly) find out answers to some questions that should be concern of any liberal western society (especially the one that of permanent neutrality).

  30. Dr Fischer of Geneva is a great book. Graham Greene was not only a genius as a writer, but a brilliant social analyst, aside from his universally acknowledged genius at dissecting personal ethical dilemmas.

  31. No. 7 Chemin de la Prévôté. (Provost’s Way)

    Cologny is a very pleasant area of Geneva. It has its vile element, but there are nice and decent people living there too. Claude Wolff and his wife Pet Clark, for example.

  32. Uzbek in the UK

    4 Mar, 2013 - 4:01 pm

    Mr Murray,

    It will be very useful if you could publish photos you have taken of lavish Karimov’s mansions on your web site. They could then be circulated to other Uzbekistan related web sites.

  33. Tris

    Poor Petula Clark – she deserves nicer neighbours (no, that isn’t saracstic or ironic, I mean it).

  34. Habbabkuk

    I do not know why the Geneva police consider ringing the doorbell a crime. Why don’t you phone them up and ask them? I have been trying repeatedly to call their spokesman M. Grosjean and ask, but nobody ever answers the phone.

    Now why don’t you take over and call? The number is 0041224275600. You can then explain to us why the police want to call in Mutabar for questioning, and why that is all perfectly reasonable and OK. Maybe Evgueni can call too.

  35. Another of her scams.

    http://www.rferl.org/content/gulnara-karimova-telecom-bribes-swedish-tv/24796854.html

    Q. What happens when Papa pops his clogs?

    She certainly has a nice long neck for the hangman’s use. In the photo here with another French actor, Delon this time. What’s up with these fading French lotharios?

    http://www.rferl.org/content/karimova_sisters_down_200_million_for_the_year/24412389.html

  36. No that was Lola, not Gulnara.

  37. Uzbek in the UK

    4 Mar, 2013 - 4:23 pm

    Mary

    She is making billions and moving them out of the country (Uzbekistan), working hard to build her reputation and earn prestige amongst world famous and powerful and you are suggesting here that she has long neck perfectly suitable for hanging?

    I see no logic.

    She will be out of the country (Uzbekistan) well in advance before her brutal father is removed from Ak-Saroy (Presidential Palace in Tashkent) presumably with his foot forward (this is how departed men are removed).

  38. Uzbek in the UK

    4 Mar, 2013 - 4:24 pm

    Well then change she to them. Both are perfect daughters of their brutal father.

  39. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 4:29 pm

    TI’s numbers are based upon ‘perception’….whose? It would seem surveys of the population, and if that’s correct; it’s the point.

    I think the Public does not associate Banking and the Swiss moneychangers with corruption, and so this sort lawful suppression goes unnoticed, or people assume that if you are being interviewed by the police, there must be some basis within the confines of due process. IOW; if you’re not guilty, why were you arrested? Corruption is endemic. As the chart indicates, no one gets 100, even in ‘perception’. It’s all relative. Much of the genuine corruption, even in the UK and US (73 and 74), is hidden because it is less socially acceptable in some cultures. This includes Sweden and the Swiss, who think theirs doesn’t stink, and this again, is perception…self-perception.

    Switzerland is just as corrupt as any other country or culture. It’s just that some feel constrained to hide their societal warts, while others, like Karimova, decorate them with paid-for bureaucrats.

  40. A dictator or Chairman of a board or a conductor of an orchestra all have a job in running a group, that is instrumental as individuals and that group in producing a satisfying outcome.

    A democracy somehow different more like a jazz piece than a classical one.

    Now as I see it a free style jazz outfit wil deviate but with intentions for a satisfying outcome.

    What we need are either sensible conductors and a decent jazz band and we ought to find a reasonable composition to work from.
    Currently the peice being played is globalisation; a may sound good just need further consideration for the poor and needy.

  41. Industry, commerce and finance are being globalised. Democracy isn’t.

  42. Could this be the residence in question?

    Two shots: one with and one without crane

  43. Uzbek in the UK

    4 Mar, 2013 - 5:05 pm

    Ben

    Unlike you (I presume) I lived in Uzbekistan. It well deserves place number 6 in most corrupt countries’ list. In Uzbekistan one (uzbek citizen) could barely pass border control without not just paying a bribe but being demanded to pay a bribe. In Uzbekistan one could barely obtain qualification without not just paying a bribe but being demanded to pay a bribe. In Uzbekistan one (uzbek citizen) could barely be registered in capital without not just paying a bribe but being demanded to pay a bribe. In Uzbekistan one could barely exchange local currency onto foreign currency without risking being caught, beaten, imprisoned and then released after paying a bribe. And it goes on and on.

  44. Calum

    Yes, that’s it. Can you tell which one was taken first? No evidence in second one of having used that kind of crane, unless putting in something very substantial underground…

  45. Craig @11:18am, I duckduckgoed “Streisand effect” — it’s actually a Wikipedia page:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

    Maybe someone may be able in the future to update Wikipedia with Gulnara and others in the “weird, weird village”

  46. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 5:32 pm

    Jay/clark;

    Direct democracy could be described as a jazz concert, but most democracy is representative, or a Republic. Most people don’t want to have intimacy with the process of making sausage, and they prefer delegating their roles to elected representatives, and this is the crux of the problems with governance. I don’t really lament the low percentage of citizens who actually vote, because the laziness or time constraints of the working class, means they will cast ill-informed ballots, canceling the votes of those who’ve done their homework. Too many use the dartboard-style when they go to the polls. This is not good. Clark, I think democracy is being promulgated, but only as a false-flag for freedom and opportunity. The Oligarchs are recognizing that they must provide a fresh coat of paint to their shenanigans. As Mohandas said “Thousands of British, simply cannot control millions of Indians” (paraphrased)

    Uzbek; I am not saying all are equally corrupt. It’s all relative.

  47. @Mary 4 Mar, 2013 – 3:43 pm

    Ha! P Philip said that apparently about the Third Reich.
    Prince Philip pictured at Nazi funeral

    You’ve reminded me of a bit of O/T tittle tattle. I once attended a craft fair in the grounds of Glamis Castle, the childhood home of the Queen Mother and Princess Margaret. Someone who worked there showed me something interesting.
    The fences on the estate include cast iron ratchet devices for tensioning the wire. Every wire had one wherever there was an extra strong post, a strainer as it’s called, so there were hundreds of them. And every one of these devices had a swastika on it. Perhaps the royals used their family connections to acquire some left over German military equipment.
    I took a photo and sent a copy to Private Eye, but they didn’t use it or even reply. I would imagine they’re still there if anybody wants to create a bit of mischief.
    I’ve still got the original photo somewhere.

  48. Craig, Two more pics. The first (CM3), I guess shows the property before any changes. The second CM4), again shows the crane.

    My guess is that, of the two photo posted previously, the one with the crane (CM2) was taken before the craneless one (CM1)

  49. A Node — what is date of fence? Swastika used to be Indian peace sign or something — my grandmother’s 1930s quilt booklet shows pattern.

    Funny thought, though, in that context, what were they thinking? — maybe good fences make good neighbors? At least it’s not electric wires?

    Wikipedia article covers wide pre/non Nazi use, including in Britain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_use_of_the_swastika_in_the_early_20th_century#Britain

    and in quilts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_use_of_the_swastika_in_the_early_20th_century#Use_in_popular_culture

  50. The photo of the house with the crane is the one I gave a link to in the first comment. It is dated 2012. Don’t know about the other one Calum provided as it is a still and you cannot see the Google caption and magnification at the bottom.

  51. A Node (cont’d)

    No mention of Glamis Castle though

    More interesting stuff, does Firefox disable links to “swastika” stories? There’s a link given in wikipedia ref #75 to: http://dmla.clan.lib.nv.us/docs/MUSEUMS/cc/russellexhibits/quilts/quilt2.htm — but which when you click on it, the http:// part disappears and you go nowhere

    same thing happened in my search results on duckduckgo. I searched “swastika quilt pattern 1930s”, and one of the most likely results is this one: http://swastika.dabbox.com/ — you NEED good luck to ever get there.

    (Is it just me in US?)

    Man, this so sucks when my American grandma’s quilt booklet pattern is disappeared!

  52. “Koni 2012″ was a fizzle.

    “Gulnara 2013″ might fair better.

  53. .. or even fare.

  54. Any legal eagles here please? Your assistance would be appreciated.

    A DFAT document recently released under FOI laws in Australia seems to confirm the existence of the infamous sealed indictment/s for Assange and Wikileaks. It depends what exactly the word “pleadings” means in the context of a Grand Jury. Anyway, there’s six of them, they’ve existed since at least November 2011 and the document in question confirms:

    “just cause for the continued sealing of the documents at issue because, for the reasons stated in the memorandum of the United States, unsealing of the documents at this time would damage an ongoing criminal investigation”

    The 26-page document (pdf) is linked in this article and the section about the sealed “pleadings” is on pages 10/11 of it:

    http://darkernet.in/aussie-fm-lied-on-tv-show-re-wikileaks-grand-jury-proof/

    Actually, here’s the pdf itself:

    http://darkernet.in/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/dfat-foi-1212-F4791.pdf

  55. Chris Jones

    4 Mar, 2013 - 7:06 pm

    This is all well and good but as in most corrupt systems, the corruption happens at the top – it’s the everyday citizens of Switzerland who will suffer from this corruption. Its in the EU’s interest to corrupt Switzerland’s political class and smash its sovereignity so that it blends in to the EU bureaucracy soup.

    Talking about fascism – i really hope that Craig still doesn’t believe all nation states should be destroyed to make way for super banking states like the EU?

  56. Somebody bothered to ask the police spokesperson, it seems:

    http://www.20min.ch/ro/news/geneve/story/Opposante-convoqu-e-par-la-police-11873097
    ‘Il n’a pas précisé les raisons de la convocation de la militante des droits de l’Homme, mais a souligné que la police genevoise n’avait pas établi de mandat à son encontre.’

    It is correct they don’t give a reason, but they emphasize that there was no warrant or any such thing. and referring to her as human rights activist sounds rather friendly.

    Well, Swiss-bashing is very fashionable it seems.

  57. Clark

    http://fr.thefreedictionary.com/convoqu%C3%A9e (ask to attend variant I guess)

    http://fr.thefreedictionary.com/mandat ( Police Warrant presumably)

    So asked to report to police in city of Geneva

    Stressed that no warrant had been issued.

    Well that’s my guess anyway.

  58. Ben Franklin, I suspect that increasing people’s chances to vote actually encourages people to vote more, and to look more deeply into the issues they’re voting about. Maybe people don’t bother to vote because they feel that it doesn’t achieve much, or they agree with some policies from one side and some from the other, but given more versatile choices and a system that actually responds they feel more motivated to get involved. Evgueni’s comments about Swiss democracy (on older threads) seem to support this.

    I agree that people often have too little time to examine political matters, but if people had the power they would probably change that. Keeping the workers over-worked has advantages for the corporate-political system. It robs people of the time they’d need for all sorts of things, like education, doing or making stuff for themselves, building community, and organising themselves to exert political pressure.

  59. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 7:23 pm

    Arbed; pg 7 has a CC; for London and Stockholm, as well as Chile…hmmm. I think I understand the first two, but Santiago? Is Pinochet back?

  60. Barbara,

    It seems clear it is the newspaper using the term “human rights activist” – not the police. The downplaying by the police stressing that no warrant had been issued, was quite possibly because the press were involved now and they realized it might get awkward.

    What is normal procedure there anyway. In the UK you might, in certain circumstances, be asked to do something voluntarily but be arrested if you don’t. So it’s not really voluntarily. What’s the situation in Switzerland? Would a “request” typically be followed by a warrant if you don’t appear?

  61. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 7:30 pm

    Clark @ 7:21

    I wasn’t suggesting voter suppression, but voter apathy has many sources. One thing that would help is making Saturday, instead of tuesday voting day. Early voting worked pretty well last November.

    To further my point, I find people just don’t want a participatory government, and feel they have sacrificed enough just showing up to vote. They have pet issues, which are often distorted without the context of the other side, and they allow their ears to be tickled by those who benefit from telling the voter what he/she wants to hear.

  62. Hi Ben,

    Missed that detail, thanks – and, yes, it’s telling that it was also copied to Stockholm given US Ambassador to Australia’s firm assurance on ABC network’s QandA programme a few days ago that the US had absolutely nothing (honest Guv’nor) to do with the Swedish case.

    The only link to Chile I can think of is that’s where the CIA campaign to destabilise Ecuador’s President Correa was based (as revealed to us folks by Craig). Remember too that Sweden’s FM Carl Bildt travelled there only last week to lobby CELAC:

    25/1/13: REGION : Sabotaging CELAC – The US and Sweden
    http://tortillaconsal.com/tortilla/es/node/12421

  63. Mutabar Tadjibaeva…is wanted for questioning by Geneva Police for the crime of ringing the bell of Gulnata Karimova’s 25 million dollar house and asking to speak to her.

    That sounded so familiar — I could hear the gate conversation even — but it turns out that the radio story from last week I’m remembering is this one, about the Elba Esther Gordillo, head of Mexico’s teacher’s union, embezzling millions of dollars from the union, buying a mansion in Coronado, California (ritzy, by San Diego), then turning away members of the teacher’s union who come to call:

    http://www.kpbs.org/news/2013/feb/27/mexican-union-boss-accused-embezzlement-has-san-di/

    A video uploaded to YouTube in 2010, apparently produced by union members, shows several members from Tijuana visiting the home, ringing Gordillo’s buzzer, and asking her to come to the door to speak in person. They say they want to discuss grievances with her as their union leader.

    She tells the teacher they are on private property, to which he responds, “Yes, but we also know it’s property you bought with our dues.”

    Gordillo thanks him and hangs up.

    Craig, did you guys post a youtube? You should. In this case, it was Gordillo who got arrested.

  64. ” My guess is that, of the two photo posted previously, the one with the crane (CM2) was taken before the craneless one (CM1) ”
    I puzzled over these a bit, but i think the crane came after. The foliage is very similar between the two with no more than a few months growth visible in the surrounding trees and hedges, but the craneless photo has significant amount of grasses growing along with rubble in the rear of the property which perhaps couldn’t have sprung up in the time since the crane was there. This would mean that large curved structure in the properties rear is now underground.

  65. May be not quite as lax, but London leaves a lot to be desired when it come to real estate ownership. Particularly When layout consider the money laundering hoops every day clients have to go through to carry out the most basic financial transactions. Great piece.

  66. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 7:46 pm

    Clark;

    Was looking for the originator of this basic tenet and found many who shared the credit.

    H.L. Mencken said it best. “People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard.”

    “In democracy you get the goverment you deserve. Alternately you deserve the government you got.”

    ~Josef Heller

    Everything said and done, at the end of the day, we get the government we deserve and deserve the government we get.

    ~ P. Ramakrishnan
    http://www.malaysia.net/aliran/ms991130.htm

    “A people deserve the government they permit.”

    ~attributed to the pseudonym “General R. Never,”
    http://www.stormfront.org/rpo/PORNO.htm

    “In Russia, it is a common saying that every people deserve the government they choose.”

    ~Vladimir Viardo
    http://www.geocities.com/nakamatsu_pian … _0609.html

    I recall what a British prime minister said years ago, “In a democracy you get the government you deserve and you deserve the government you get.”

    ~Duane W. Compton
    http://starbulletin.com/2001/04/26/edit … tters.html

    We have to let these turkeys know that we are not going to play games and go sideways and backwards. America deserves better. They say that you deserve the government you get.

    ~ Eldridge Cleaver
    http://www.newagejournal.com/CLEAVER.HTM

    “We deserve the government that we get. That’s an old adage and it’s really true.”

    ~Patricia Boyd, executive director of the Minnesota Christian Coalition
    http://www.mcchronicle.com/archive/111600/story11y.html

  67. Ben,

    I know who to ask about the meaning of the term “pleadings” in that DFAT document – Marcy Wheeler! I know you’re registered at her Empty Wheel site. Could I ask you to pass her my comment at 6.57pm above please, or paste it at EW? Your info about the cc’s to London, Stockholm and Chile is rather crucial to bring to her attention too.

    Thank you.

  68. Anon – it’s hard to say when you don’t know the details. I just know that it takes forceful trespassing and/or damage to the property to be charged with ‘disturbance of domestic peace’, and this obviously is not the case.

    But if anyone from that fancy neighborhood complained, the police would be legally obligated to hear also Ms. Tadjibaeva.

  69. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 8:02 pm

    Arbed; No registration necessary. It might get a little convoluted if I proxy a question, but if you ask the original question, and you hit Marcy’s button with a salient issue, she will reply.

    If you tell me which thread (they are abandoned rather quickly) like the current one on Aaron, and apologize for being a little OT, I can draw further attention with a response.

    BTW; Thanks to your CADAL reference, I am culling through a trove of new jellybeans for thought.

    http://ferrada-noli.blogspot.com/

  70. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 8:15 pm

    Arbed;

    Jeralyn Merrit is quite good, as well. Very nice lady…..competent attorney.

    http://www.talkleft.com/

  71. Thanks, Ben – I’ve put it on the Quinn Norton’s testimony thread, as that relates also to a heavy-shit Grand Jury – and the Wikileaks and Swartz GJs may be related in some way (as I believe you suspect too). It’s currently awaiting moderation.

  72. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 8:18 pm

    Jack Balkin and company…..http://balkin.blogspot.com/

  73. Ben, 8.02pm

    Well, my comment is up now on the Quinn Norton thread of Marcy’s site. Do you know if she moderates it herself, and will therefore now have seen my request?

  74. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 8:32 pm

    Arbed @ 8:17

    I added my comment. With two of us inquiring, she may spend some time unraveling. Or we may find an imminent post on that very subject. She is totally ‘jacked-in’.

  75. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 8:46 pm

    Arbed; I don’t know how quickly. I had forgotten she moderates newcomers. Once you pass muster, it posts immediately.

    FTF; keep the other two links (Jeralyn, Balkin)

  76. Thanks again, Ben – bookmarked those. I’ll wait to see if there’s any response from Marcy first, before I try them. If anyone can unravel exactly what those documents from the Wikileaks Grand Jury are that the US govt has been keeping under wraps for quite a long time now, she can.

  77. When a new contributor’s first comment gets queued for moderation but subsequent ones are published automatically, it usually indicates that the blog is operated by just one person. It makes a blog very easy to moderate. Spam gets queued automatically, and anyone who misbehaves can be reduced to being queued again just by deleting their details from the list of approved contributors.

  78. Ben Franklin, I don’t think that people get the government they deserve. That saying, I think, used to be more true than it is now. The major parties in many countries have become so dominant that most people won’t risk “wasting their vote” upon smaller, less compromised parties and independent candidates. You hear of this repeatedly in two-party politics; good candidates get criticised for standing at all, on the basis that they might “split the vote”.

    Additionally, the techniques used by corporate media to manipulate voters have become more advanced, and the number of media organisations has decreased hugely. It is easy for the media to act in concert and simply ignore minority candidates and parties.

    With only two viable candidates in most constituencies, it is easy for corporations etc. to compromise both sides.

    I think that the traditional forms of democracy are out-of-date. Politics is effectively an arms race, the people versus private power, and the tools available to the people are currently outclassed by the opposition.

  79. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 9:56 pm

    Arbed;

    Marcy has replied…..’twitterings’ Does her answer make sense?

  80. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 10:08 pm

    Clark @ 9:52

    “The major parties in many countries have become so dominant that most people won’t risk “wasting their vote” upon smaller, less compromised parties and independent candidates.”

    This two-party monopoly may be new in the UK, but not the US. I think it was 1912 when Theodore Roosevelt sought to break the two-party hold with his Bull Moose Party. The average voter looks at the multiple candidates on the ballot like an ‘eye-test’ and has no idea what a ‘split-vote’ is. The change I see is that those folks (the minority of say 25-40%) who actually educate themselves have been immeasurably assisted by the innertubes. (If only Hypatia had such a Library)

    “With only two viable candidates in most constituencies, it is easy for corporations etc. to compromise both sides.”

    Alternative candidates can certainly assist their directives in a close race. The Koch Bros often give contributions in smaller measure to their antagonists, to cover their tracks and hedge the bet some. They don’t want to be completely aced out of the calculation, in case their candidate doesn’t win. (ha, ha)

  81. “I do not know why the Geneva police consider ringing the doorbell a crime. Why don’t you phone them up and ask them? I have been trying repeatedly to call their spokesman M. Grosjean and ask, but nobody ever answers the phone.

    Now why don’t you take over and call? The number is 0041224275600. You can then explain to us why the police want to call in Mutabar for questioning, and why that is all perfectly reasonable and OK. Maybe Evgueni can call too.”

    Habitual Babbler gone quiet–well thats a first.

    Good homework you’ve set, Craig, for our Resident Jokerman.

    Now Warden Babbler, you’ve asked a lot of questions–make sure you come up with the answers. No shirking your homework.

    ELSE, SIX
    OF THE BEST
    WAITING FOR YOU.

    ===

    ” False-hearted judges dying in the webs that they spin
    Only a matter of time ’til the night comes stepping in.”
    –Bob Dylan
    Listen here (W/lyrics and great graphics–sheer poetry): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XSvsFgvWr0

  82. And Warden Habba, btw, why do you address Craig as “@ Craig (Murray)”? Isn’t that his real name?

    Let us not all forget how this fraud announced himself here as ONEIL. Background always shows up!

  83. Craig,

    If you use aerial view on Bing maps you will see the crane, zoom in a bit more and the crane disappears to reveal a brand new tennis court.

  84. For got to add on my previous, I wonder what the human cost of that was.

  85. Blame it on God:

    “God has just completed the creation of world, with its ocean and continents and all the creatures, including the humans. As he surveys his work, an angel points out that there is one small spot in the center of Europe that’s been left blank and empty. The Lord says, ‘I must have overlooked the spot. What shall we do with it?’ And the angel answers, ‘If I may suggest it, Lord why don’t you create a land of milk and honey, called Switzerland—with snow-peaked mountains, streams, forests and green meadows, where cows graze that produce the best milk in the world?’ The Lord replies, ‘That sounds good. And what about the humans there?’ And the angel suggests, ‘Why not make them clean, orderly, and hard-working, with the greatest respect for money?’ And the Lord says, ‘So be it.’ And so it was done. After some time the Lord wants to see what he has created and goes down to Earth. He walks among the mountains, enjoying the beauty of the scenery. After a while he comes to a small village, very clean and orderly. As the day is getting hotter, he feels a bit thirsty. So he walks up to one of the cafés with outdoor tables and chairs. The owner immediately recognizes him and comes running, greeting him with great respect, ‘O Lord, please sit down. It’s an extraordinary honor that You visit our small town and my humble café. Is there anything, anything, that we can do for You?’ The Lord is pleased and says, ‘By Jove, I noticed your splendid cows grazing out there. Give me a tall glass of cold, fresh milk.’ ‘Immediately, O Lord.’ And the man trots off and returns with a tall glass of fresh, cold milk with foam on the top, and places in front of the Lord. He drinks it down with much enjoyment. He’s just getting up from the table when the owner comes running and, with a respectful bow, places a small plate with the strip of paper in front of him. The Lord looks at it and asks the man, ‘What is that?’ The owner bows again and explains, ‘With all due respect, O Lord, that is the bill.’ :-)

  86. Ben, 9.56pm

    Yes, Marcy’s answer does make sense. These six “pleadings” must relate to the 10 November 2011 motion to have the Wikileaks Three’s (Jacob Appelbaum, Birgitta Jonsdottir, Ron Gongripp) Twitter subpoenas unsealed, which was denied. (Though the fact it’s six subpoenas, not three, means that it’s not only Twitter who’s handed over their private user data to the US government…)

    So… that means the sealed indictment for Assange is under paragraph s 22 1(a)(ii) on the previous page – the one with the bloody great X through it and ‘REDACTED’ written across the whole page… ;)

  87. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 10:40 pm

    Hey, Villager. Harry Lime (The Third Man) had a similar thought….

    ” Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love – they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock”

  88. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 10:44 pm

    “So… that means the sealed indictment for Assange is under paragraph s 22 1(a)(ii) on the previous page”

    Arbed; Is it as important to know of the SI’s existence, as it is to know it’s content? I’m just not sure what fact you wish to establish.

  89. Craig,
    Good on yer for havin the balls/brassneck to challenge/highlight the issue. – she would have moved to Switzerland to avoid such very worthy knocks on her posh door.
    Getting back to the. UK, your thoughts please on the very recent ruling in favour of Ken Clarkes secret evidence courts

  90. Barbara – “It is correct they don’t give a reason, but they emphasize that there was no warrant or any such thing. and referring to her as human rights activist sounds rather friendly.”

    That is quite glossing over the situation, all she did was call at Gulnara’s compound and she has been asked to account for herself by the police.

  91. Ben Franklin, I strongly believe that human nature is superbly creative, given the right opportunities, so I support giving more power to the voters, along with more free time, better information resources, etc.

    The incredible and rapid improvement in Wikipedia and free (GPL) software are two of the things that have helped to convince me of this; both are collaborative enterprises, based around a set of well formulated rules. Contribution is voluntary and self-motivated. Each person contributes that which seems of value in their own opinion, and the rules encourage convergence upon consensus. Evgueni’s description suggests that Swiss direct democracy has a similar structure.

    Yes, you get “lazy (non) voters” in any democracy, but there’s no reason to believe that any given individual is stuck like that for life. While they abstain, they do no good, but they do no harm either. If at some point such a person starts to develop an interest in some issue, direct democracy provides a system to accept their contribution.

    What I particularly dislike about two party politics is that it creates a sort of “spectator sport” atmosphere, with the voters playing the role of the supporters, cheering on their respective teams, and rejoicing or lamenting the results of elections. It reduces important issues to rivalry and it encourages shallow “personality politics”, individual politicians taking roles like those of sporting heroes. Such stuff is ideal fodder for media sensationalism. But it produces lots of heat and little light.

    You might enjoy this discussion from 2011:

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2011/04/av-referendum-and-nick-clegg/

    Evgueni joined in at this point:

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2011/04/av-referendum-and-nick-clegg/#comment-309370

    More excellent contributions from Evgueni here:

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2011/04/tories-and-clegg-out-manouevre-lib-dems-on-banking/#comment-308580

  92. Ben/Clark,

    I remember seeing a George Harrison interview. He said words to the effect “Thats the problem. No matter who you vote for, the Government always gets in.” :-)

  93. Oops didn’t mean to get drawn in and haven’t got the time to do this properly – apologies all. Craig – indeed why did the Geneva police want to question your friend? Presumably they have a duty to investigate complaints, no matter how facetious they are at face value. There may well be preferential treatment for wealthy individuals, as there is here. Are we fascist here in the UK?

    Clark – indeed I agree. Democracy is always local, by its nature. We cannot change that and hence we cannot expect the Swiss to ‘do our democracy for us’. The Uzbeks ultimately must hold Karimovs to account and so on. A couple of things to add to this, one – canton of Geneva is I think the least democratic of the Swiss cantons and this is reflected in the local residents’ “happiness” metric in relation to the other cantons (part of this metric is satisfaction with local government). The other thing is I have no reason to believe that the Swiss media are substantially any more free than ours. It is clear that democracy can be subverted – bias by omission is very effective. So there is lots of room for improvement in Switzerland.

    Uzbek – thanks I will follow up. The answer is lack of time…

    Cheers,
    The Ukrainian.

  94. Barbara:

    “Well, Swiss-bashing is very fashionable it seems.”

    Well, Swiss-cashing is very traditional though.

  95. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 11:53 pm

    “Ben Franklin, I strongly believe that human nature is superbly creative, ”

    Clark; I see the same, but I would classify it as ‘potential’. We only use 3-5% of our mental capacity.

    The potential is like the mysterious ‘dark matter’ of our Universe. It’s there, but somehow, we can’t presently access it’s power. I believe this is a construct of ‘will’ and desire. If humans could truly harness this internal power, and delegate it’s authority with sagacity and circumspection, no boundaries of the human spirit would be visible.

  96. Hi Ben, i read Clark as saying that the *essential* Nature of Humans is creative. It is another matter then humans have drifted far from their Nature.

    Btw can you please clarify what you mean by ” I believe this is a construct of ‘will’ and desire.”

    Also, btw, that Swiss joke i posted above i heard from Krishnamurti.

  97. @Clark

    Late … as usual

    In case nobody gave an explanation (which on a thread like this I find unlikely) a ‘convocation’ in French is a formal summons (although if you don’t answer it there’s not a lot that the police can do) and a ‘mandat’ is issued usually by a court … the nearest we come to it in English is ‘warrant’.

  98. Indigo

    Thanks, that is important.

    I used to deal with this sort of thing all the time when Resident Clerk in the Foreign Office. Such complaints are made frequently in London by diplomatic missions against demonstrators. The Metropolitan Police do NOT try to track down and question people purely on the basis that a foregin mission made a complaint about them. British authorities would view such complaints with scepticism unless backed by actual evidence of illegal activity.

  99. Craig, Switzerland is a police state. Uzbekistan, you know better than us all combined. Thank you for this blog entry and in particular for the punch-line:

    “I wonder in I can interest Occupy and the human rights groups in an annual summer camp for activists at Cologny? Let’s give the Geneva police some more difficult field of anti-democratic harassment than a small torture victim.”

    As for Petula Clark, well she can always move downtown.

    Dedicated to Gulnar, who can forget all her troubles, forget all her cares, and forget Craig Murray and his credentials of truth and fairness:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-oQ5KwRSMU

  100. Ben Franklin:

    “We only use 3-5% of our mental capacity.”

    I’m sure that’s been debunked:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10%25_of_brain_myth

    Brains use a lot of energy:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_brain#Metabolism

    Evolution is economical, and wouldn’t spend excess energy on an organ that was 95% unused. But people do put a lot of their mental capacity into things that are pointless, frivolous or counter-productive. Hell, we’re constantly being encouraged and indoctrinated to do so by the corporate media and the advertising it carries.

  101. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    5 Mar, 2013 - 12:25 am

    Villager at Midnight (I love that !)

    “Btw can you please clarify what you mean by ” I believe this is a construct of ‘will’ and desire.”

    I will try to condense into a digestible thought.

    The human body is a fundamentally lazy edifice. It only performs work that’s required. As the human brain is an organic entity within the body, it follows that it’s operation is also subject to this tendency. We only use a small percentage of our brain’s capacity. This could be due to the decision (will) to leave a surplus of space for other purposes of which we are not aware, or it could be a desire to conserve energy for future unknown needs. Nevertheless, it is underused capacity, and my opinion is that folks who choose to largely relegate their thinking to the medulla with it’s primordial functions, are fiercely undercutting their capacity by willful means and purposeful desire.

  102. Uzbek,
    I scanned the links, I was really after something more substantive – research paper(s) establishing whether criminal money is any more or less likely to end up in Swiss banks than in say Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands and other such places that are identified as tax havens. The articles that you provided tell me what I already know – that the Swiss traditionally only drew the line at accepting funds that are linked to activities considered criminal under Swiss law. This has changed recently with new legislation allowing the freezing of funds pending investigation of serious crime allegations abroad. It would be hard to do more without arbitrary justifications that are open to criticism on legal grounds. The articles do not tell me whether the Swiss are doing more or less to tackle the problem than others.

    An interesting snippet from Новая Газета that you linked to: “If a corrupt dictator seeks true anonymity, he should create a trust fund in Britain or register a holding company in Delaware (a state in eastern USA)”… “British trusts and Delaware companies offer the beneficiary a level of anonymity that is simply illegal for Swiss banks.”

    From the fact of disproportionate amount of the world’s horded cash ending up in Swiss banks it does not follow that the money is mostly criminal. The attraction of Swiss franc in economically turbulent times is strong. Once I came across a Credit Suisse paper that explained this with a diagram charting real value of savings denominated in major world currencies after adjustment for inflation and prevailing interest rates for each currency over a period of more than 100 years. The Swiss franc retained the most value in real terms despite headline savings rate being consistently lower than any other currency. This was demonstrated again post 2008 when sterling lost about a quarter of its value against the Swiss franc. The world’s dictators are not the only ones who realise this.

  103. In the United Kingdom, and indeed it could be claimed ‘The World’, the events of 7/7/2005 is the 2nd defining moment of the first decade of The 21st Century, the first of course being the terrorist attack on the world Trade Center.

    It will have repercussions for many decades to come. It should be feared the day has altered the course of British history permanently. The events of the day were chaos which is to say “hidden order” or “the tumult of an act of war”. With whom “the act of war” originated is precisely the object of my questioning. Out of this chaos and five years on, a Coroners inquest, tasked to investigate solely “the terrorist attacks” of the day was to assemble from the pieces a single overriding government narrative. One which should be added matched the political agenda and business interests of many people in positions of power from around the world. This narrative, repeated, echoed, and invoked as gospel near to the cadence of wardrums by news anchors, military advisers, politicians, bureaucrats, and television documentaries, is one fraught with many deceptions, omissions, and a pathological strain of tunnel vision. From this state of affairs, citizens of the nations of the world, have questioned this official narrative for nearly a decade.

    To the day of this writing, these questions have remained unanswered. One might explain away the silence with a simple maxim: “a house of cards collapses quite easily.”

    To begin to question the events of 7/7 is not for the fainthearted. In fact, it requires the greatest of courage to stare into the horrifying realization and to make the decision to fight upon the side of Truth. At last it will become clear the future is too important to do otherwise.

    Once The Truth lived in innocence and men, in order to hide their sins, sentenced it to death. An innocent man was put to death. But The Truth rose from the grave.

    A lie does not live forever — it only dies.

    Only The Truth is eternal. It shall overcome even death.

    The best defense against tyranny at home and abroad is an educated, enlightened, skeptical, courageous and honest British citizenry who debate and debate and debate(Craig Murray) the course of action for the nation. Alas, today the country is deeply in deficit of such men and women. The events of 7/7, nearly ten years later, has led to a deafening government takeover of society. Consequently, the life of the Individual, which is to say you and I, has suffered. The Truth has suffered. If you believe otherwise you are in error for this is as clear as day. There has been much suffering since and there will be much more suffering to come. To truly move forward upon the road of freedom, government must be reduced and pushed back into the proper sphere. It must be made to be an implementation of the will of the people; a government of and by and for the people, with the consent of the governed.

    The post-9/11 post-7/7 world must be rejected in all its invasive, lethal, and totalitarian forms. We must reject the takeover of our lives by unaccountable and monolithic government. The balance of power must be restored. Over ten years of a Global War on Terror has only led to the ruination of the Magna Carta upon which the nation rests, The Rule of Common Law. Let my voice be heard by all those whom will listen. The future is too important. I implore all to begin to question what road the nation has been set upon, before it is too late.

  104. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    5 Mar, 2013 - 12:41 am

    Clark; from your link…”.One possible origin is the reserve energy theories by Harvard psychologists William James and Boris Sidis in the 1890s who tested the theory in the accelerated raising of child prodigy William Sidis to effect an adulthood IQ of 250–300; thus William James told audiences that people only meet a fraction of their full mental potential, which is a plausible claim.[5] In 1936, American writer Lowell Thomas summarized this idea (in a foreword to Dale Carnegie’s How to Win Friends and Influence People) by adding a falsely precise percentage: “Professor William James of Harvard used to say that the average man develops only ten per cent of his latent mental ability.”[6]

    According to a related origin story, the 10% myth most likely arose from a misunderstanding (or misrepresentation) of neurological research in the late 19th century or early 20th century. For example, the functions of many brain regions (especially in the cerebral cortex) are complex enough that the effects of damage are subtle, leading early neurologists to wonder what these regions did.[7] The brain was also discovered to consist mostly of glial cells, which seemed to have very minor functions. Dr. James W. Kalat, author of the textbook Biological Psychology, points out that neuroscientists in the 1930s knew about the large number of “local” neurons in the brain. The misunderstanding of the function of local neurons may have led to the 10% myth.[8] Indeed, it is easy to imagine that the myth propagated simply by a truncation of the statement that “humans use 10% of their brains at any given time.”

    Although parts of the brain have broadly understood functions, many mysteries remain about how brain cells (i.e., neurons and glia) work together to produce complex behaviors and disorders. Perhaps the broadest, most mysterious question is how diverse regions of the brain collaborate to form conscious experiences. So far, there is no evidence that there is one site for consciousness, which leads experts to believe that it is truly a collective neural effort. Therefore, as with James’s idea that humans have untapped cognitive potential, it also is fair to say that a large fraction of questions about the brain have not been fully answered.[1]”

    How is it stroke victims can re-program through unused nerve pathways to establish motor function? It’s not that the brain is unused…it is not being fully utilized.

  105. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    5 Mar, 2013 - 12:49 am

    I should add, Clark, that if I thought human brains were at maximum capacity, I would lose all hope for humanity.

  106. Ben, i love writing 12:00am.

    Let the Midnight Special shine a light on me/us ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYNAF-QcPrE )

    I think one problem is our conditioning. Another is thought. Thought is memory/experience. We overuse our brain for ‘thinking’ and analysis. So the past modified nano-marginally by the present becomes the future and we are lost in this deluded cycle of “time” which is memory. Further, there is no psychological evolution so are stuck in time and its repetitive patterns.

    If we rid ourselves of will and desire through self-knowledge and abandon our conditioning, we are left with the mind/brain space for insight. Creative living is a respose from there.

    As for energy, inattention–the way most of us live–is a wasteful sucking of eery. The flame of attention (choiceness awareness) is energy.

  107. The Le Temps article is behind a paywall. You can “register for free”, but they want name, address, telephone number, date of birth, and the number of spots on your arse. The form’s in French.

  108. Evgueni @11.09- thanks for your sensible comments, which the hardened Swiss bashers on the thread (yes you, Villager)should note.

    The Geneva Police are certainly guilty of unwarranted harassment in the case of Ms Tadjibaeva, but such behavior cannot be laid at the door of the Federal Swiss authorities, given that law enforcement is a cantonal responsibility-

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantons_of_Switzerland

  109. I believe IQ is a misnomer. IQ should read intellectual quotient which has little to do with INTELLIGENCE as in the INTELLIGENCE OF THE UNIVERSE. Intelligence is a living, pulsating, vital thing. Intellect is just the hard-drive, another organ. My hair is intelligent, so are my toenails and every organ in my body and so on. But intelligence in its wholeness is another thing.

  110. Clark, et voila

    Mutabar Tadjibaeva ne s’attendait pas à avoir affaire à la police à Genève, une ville symbole de liberté à ses yeux. Vendredi dernier, la journaliste ouzbèke, qui a survécu à la torture dans les prisons de Tachkent, était invitée par le Festival du film et forum international sur les droits humains (FIFDH) à témoigner de la brutalité du régime d’Islam Karimov.

    Dimanche, alors qu’elle s’apprête à quitter la Suisse pour Paris, où elle vit en exil, elle reçoit un appel de la police de Genève, qui la convoque au poste de l’aéroport suite à une plainte déposée par la mission permanente de l’Ouzbékistan, à Genève, représentée par Gulnara Karimova, la fille du président ouzbek. Mutabar Tadjibaeva ne sait pas ce qu’on lui reproche. Ne parlant pas français, elle transmet l’appel à un ami pour tenter de se faire traduire, mais la police refuse d’expliquer à une tierce personne l’objet du litige et ne peut assurer la traduction russe, raconte-t-elle. Alors elle décide de rentrer en France comme prévu. «Je ne savais pas à quoi m’attendre. Si je m’étais rendue à l’aéroport, aurais-je pu être déportée en Ouzbékistan?» s’interroge Mutabar Tadjibaeva, qui a sa propre idée sur les reproches qu’on lui adresse. L’opposante déposait elle-même vendredi une plainte contre les autorités ouzbèkes au Haut-Commissariat aux droits de l’homme. Le lendemain, elle se rend à Cologny, devant ce qu’elle pense être le domicile de Gulnara Karimov.

    «Je voulais voir où est passé l’argent volé par le régime aux citoyens ouzbeks», raconte au téléphone Mutabar Tadjibaeva, désormais en lieu sûr. La militante, accompagnée notamment du cinéaste Michael Andersen et de Craig Murray, ancien ambassadeur de Grande-Bretagne à Tachkent (LT du 01.03.2013), demande à voir la princesse ouzbèke et prend des photos de la maison. Refoulés, ils déposent leurs cartes de visite dans la boîte aux lettres de la propriété. Interrogée sur la raison de sa plainte, la mission ouzbèke confirme la visite rendue par les militants à la résidence de Gulnara Karimova, et relate sa propre version des événements de samedi dans un e-mail: «Quand un diplomate de la mission a entrouvert la porte, ces personnes ont tenté d’entrer dans la propriété en filmant à l’aide d’une caméra. […] La mission permanente de l’Ouzbékistan tient à souligner que ces actes représentent une menace de l’espace personnel, et ont été commis dans une propriété habitée par des personnes au bénéfice du statut de diplomates. C’est pourquoi elle a déposé plainte auprès de la police de l’aéroport.»

    De son côté, Craig Murray, de retour en Grande-Bretagne, fulmine. «C’est une honte pour la Suisse et Genève, qui héberge de nombreuses organisations de défense des droits de l’homme. Aucun opposant politique ne devrait être importuné par les autorités suisses. La police de Genève doit présenter ses excuses.» Léo Kaneman, directeur du FIFDH, qui a invité l’opposante à Genève, déplore quant à lui le «zèle de la police genevoise».

    Les autorités suisses sont-elles tenues de donner suite à une plainte de la mission ouzbèke auprès de l’ONU à l’encontre d’une dissidente politique? «En vertu des accords de siège, la police a l’obligation de donner suite aux plaintes de diplomates accrédités auprès des institutions internationales au même titre que toute autre plainte, répond Eric Grandjean, porte-parole de l’institution. Si vous souhaitez en savoir plus sur ces accords, adressez vos questions à la mission suisse auprès de l’ONU.» Ladite mission n’ayant plus de porte-parole, le DFAE répond à sa place qu’«il revient à la police genevoise d’examiner la recevabilité des plaintes».

    La première fois que Mutabar Tadji­baeva s’était rendue à Genève, c’était en 2008 pour y recevoir le Prix Martin Ennals, sorte de Nobel des droits de l’homme. A la surprise générale, les autorités ouzbèkes l’avaient autorisée à sortir du pays. «J’aimerais revenir à Genève et mener cette affaire à sa fin. Je n’ai pas peur d’être arrêtée car je crois encore que Genève est un haut lieu de la démocratie. Mais, avant, j’aimerais demander de l’aide juridique en France», dit la journaliste .

  111. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    5 Mar, 2013 - 1:03 am

    Villager; Fogerty is my man, dude !

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E9CmTTInWo

    Stay for the harmonica solo.

  112. “hardened Swiss bashers” ! Lighten up Old Mark and grow young. There’s a New World coming. Sorry if i hit a raw nerve!!

  113. And now look Ben 1.00am ! Must be the Swiss cuckoo clock showing its hand! How quickly an hour passes when you’re having fun. Anyway looks like we’re in good company.

  114. Villager

    sort of, but my tolerance of O/T prattle is wearing thin

  115. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    5 Mar, 2013 - 1:22 am

    Oh, Now we get moderation…in the wee hours.

  116. Craig, your place and your blood pressure. Happy to invite one’s self out. Sleep in peace

  117. Craig, thanks.

    Copied verbatim from mangle.translate.google.com:
    —————————

    Mutabar Tadjibaeva did not expect to have to deal with the police in Geneva, a city symbol of freedom in his eyes. Last Friday, the Uzbek journalist who survived torture in prison in Tashkent, was invited by the Film Festival and International Forum on Human Rights (FIFDH) to witness the brutal regime of Islam Karimov.

    Sunday, as she prepares to leave Switzerland to Paris, where she lives in exile, she receives a call from the Geneva police, who convene at the airport station following a complaint by the Permanent Mission Uzbekistan, in Geneva, represented by Gulnara Karimova, daughter of Uzbek President. Mutabar Tadjibaeva not know the case against him. Do not speak French, it forwards the call to a friend to try to translate, but the police refuse to explain to a third party in dispute and can not provide the Russian translation, she says. So she decided to return to France as planned. “I did not know what to expect. If I had went to the airport, could I be deported to Uzbekistan? “Asks Mutabar Tadjibaeva, which has its own idea of ​​the reproaches addressed to him. The opponent filed Friday itself a complaint against the Uzbek authorities to the High Commissioner for Human Rights. The next day she went to Cologny to what she thinks is the home of Gulnara Karimov.

    “I wanted to see what happened to the money stolen by the regime to Uzbek citizens,” says the phone Mutabar Tadjibaeva now in a safe place. Activist, with particular filmmaker Michael Andersen and Craig Murray, former ambassador to Great Britain in Tashkent (LT 01/03/2013), ask to see the princess Uzbek and takes pictures of the house. Repressed, they lay their cards in the mailbox of the property. Asked about the reason for his complaint, Uzbek mission confirms visit by militants at the residence of Gulnara Karimova, and tells his own version of events on Saturday in an email: “When a diplomat mission has opened the door, these people tried to enter the property, filming with a camera. [...] The Permanent Mission of Uzbekistan wishes to emphasize that these actions constitute a threat of personal space, and were committed in a property inhabited by people for the benefit of the status of diplomats. That is why she filed a complaint with the police at the airport. ”

    On his side, Craig Murray, back in Britain, fuming. “It is a shame for Switzerland and Geneva, which hosts many organizations defending human rights. No political opponent should not be bothered by the Swiss authorities. Geneva police should apologize. “Leo Kaneman, FIFDH director, who invited the opponent to Geneva, meanwhile deplored the” zeal of the Geneva police. ”

    The Swiss authorities are required to provide them with a complaint of Uzbek mission to the UN against a political dissident? “By virtue of the headquarters agreements, the police are obliged to respond to complaints of diplomats accredited to international institutions as well as any other complaint meets Eric Grandjean, spokesman of the institution. If you want to know more about these agreements, send questions to the Swiss Mission to the UN. “That mission is no longer the spokesperson, the DFA answers for her that” it is up to the Geneva Police to consider the admissibility of complaints. ”

    The first time Mutabar Tadjibaeva had traveled to Geneva, it was to receive the 2008 Martin Ennals Award, a sort of Nobel Prize for human rights. To everyone’s surprise, the Uzbek authorities had allowed to leave the country. “I want to return to Geneva and take the matter to an end. I’m not afraid of being arrested because I still believe that Geneva is a hotbed of democracy. But before, I would like to ask for legal aid in France, “said the journalist.

  118. Just beat me to it, Clark.
    Here’s a tidied up version of the Google translation.
    I took a few liberties with the phrasing, trying to get the sense of it:

    Mutabar Tadjibaeva did not expect to have to deal with the police in Geneva, a city which in her eyes is a symbol of freedom. Last Friday, the Uzbek journalist who survived torture in prison in Tashkent, was invited by the Film Festival and International Forum on Human Rights (FIFDH) to witness the brutal regime of Islam Karimov.

    Sunday, as she prepares to leave Switzerland for Paris, where she lives in exile, she receives a call from the Geneva police, who convene at the airport station following a complaint by the Permanent Uzbekistan Mission in Geneva, represented by Gulnara Karimova, daughter of Uzbek President. Mutabar Tadjibaeva not understand the case against her. As she does not speak French, she forwarded the call to a friend to try to translate, but the police refused to explain the dispute to a third party and cannot provide a Russian translation, she says. So she decided to return to France as planned. “I did not know what to expect. If I had gone to the airport, could I be deported to Uzbekistan? “Asks Mutabar Tadjibaeva, which has its own list of grudges against her. She herself filed on Friday a complaint against the Uzbek authorities to the High Commissioner for Human Rights. The next day she went to Cologny to what she believes is the home of Gulnara Karimov.

    “I wanted to see what has happened to the money stolen by the regime from Uzbek citizens,” Mutabar Tadjibaeva, who is now in a safe place, says over the phone. The activist, with specialist filmmaker Michael Andersen and Craig Murray, former ambassador to Great Britain in Tashkent (LT 01/03/2013), ask to see the princess Uzbek and take pictures of the house. Rebuffed, they leave their cards in the mailbox of the property. Asked about the reason for their complaint, the Uzbek mission confirmed the visit by militants at the residence of Gulnara Karimova, and gave their version of events on Saturday in an email: “When a diplomat mission has opened the door, these people tried to enter the property, filming with a camera. [...] The Permanent Mission of Uzbekistan wishes to emphasize that these actions constitute a threat of personal space, and were committed in a property inhabited by people for the benefit of the status of diplomats. That is why she filed a complaint with the police at the airport. ”

    For his part, Craig Murray, back in Britain, is fuming. “It is a shame for Switzerland and Geneva, which hosts many organizations defending human rights. A political dissident should not be bothered by the Swiss authorities. Geneva police should apologize. “Leo Kaneman, FIFDH director, who invited the accused to Geneva, meanwhile deplored the” zeal of the Geneva police. ”

    Are the Swiss authorities required to support a complaint by the Uzbek mission to the UN against a political dissident? “By virtue of the headquarters agreements, the police are obliged to respond to complaints of diplomats accredited to international institutions as well as any other complaint says Eric Grandjean, spokesman of the institution. If you want to know more about these agreements, send questions to the Swiss Mission to the UN.” That mission is no longer the spokesperson. The DFA replies on its behalf that” it is up to the Geneva Police to consider the admissibility of complaints.”

    The first time Mutabar Tadjibaeva had traveled to Geneva, it was to receive the 2008 Martin Ennals Award, a sort of Nobel Prize for human rights. To everyone’s surprise, the Uzbek authorities had allowed her to leave the country. “I want to return to Geneva and bring the matter to a conclusion. I’m not afraid of being arrested because I still believe that Geneva is a hotbed of democracy. But before I go, I would like to ask for legal aid in France,”says journalist

  119. The word “militant” appears in both the Le Monde article, and in the 20 Minutes Online article that Craig linked to in his original post.

    The accounts of the incident differ. In Craig and Mutabar Tadjibaeva’s account, they rang the door bell, asked to see Karimova but were refused, and so they posted their calling cards through the letter box. But the statement made by the Uzbek Mission states: “When a diplomat opened the door, these people [plural] tried to enter the property, filming with a camera” [my emphasis and edit].

    But the Uzbek complaint to the police was only about Mutabar Tadjibaeva. It is inconceivable that Uzbek security would have failed to identify Craig Murray, the former ambassador who had created so much trouble in 2003, and whose calling card was in their letter box. It thus seems that the Uzbek complaint to the Geneva police was dishonest, and deliberately phrased as “militants attempting to enter the house” in order to manipulate the police into taking action.

    I think that the Geneva police should demand the video camera record from the Uzbek Mission as evidence, and if the Uzbek Mission refuses, or their account proves to be fabricated, they should be charged with making a false statement and wasting police time, or the Swiss equivalent thereof. At the very least, the Uzbek Mission should be sent a hefty bill for the police resources they’ve needlessly wasted. If the Geneva police fail to do this then they have no credibility.

    It seems to have been a frightening experience for Mutabar Tadjibaeva, unable to understand French, and in fear that she could be deported to Uzbekistan.

  120. Craig

    You probably do not know that Swiss and other residents of that lovely country are very fond of the police who are called at the slightest whim. In the eighties while staying with my wife in zurich, I was told by friends how the police arrived within minutes after they had finished hanging their washing in the garden ordering them to take the washing down immediately. It was my friends missfortune that that day was sunday when their sensitive neighbours felt presumably even more disturbed by the sight of underware fluttering in the wind. Arguing that they had a baby who shits a lot and they have to wash quite often made the policemen evem more agressive so they did what told to avoid arrest. I that light it seem to me that the lady who rang the bell could thank her good fortune that she was not shot on the spot.

    ,

  121. All you night owls are now sleeping the sleep of the just presumably.

    ‘David Olson requests information on the origin and earliest uses of “Sleep the sleep of the just.” Burton Stevenson’s Home Book of Quotations (sixth edition) offers “She slept the sleep of the just” (Elle s’endormit du sommeil des justes) from Racine’s Abrégé de l’his toire de Port Royal (vol. iv, l. 517); can readers supply other sources?’ Harvard Magazine.

    I looked at the Le Temps website the other day (the Geneva thread) but decided I did not want to give all that personal information on the registration to a bunch of unknowns.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Temps

    ~~
    Sadly it is said that President Chavez is fading. He now has a respiratory infection.

  122. As our liberties and rights are being taken away by the pocket pols, thankfully we still have some independence in the judiciary such as Lord Neuberger below on the effect of cuts in legal aid.

    This is absolutely shocking. See the lobby fodder passed through. Beware the return of the Third Reich.

    Commons backs plans for secret courts
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21653211

    BUT

    Ahead of Monday’s debate, Lord Woolf – a former Lord Chief Justice and crossbench peer – said the government’s amended plans would retain “the standards of general justice” while ensuring that all sides can put their case and judges are not “blindfolded” by not being able to test certain evidence.

    “They will ensure that both the government and the claimant are given the greatest opportunity to put their case and that concerned citizens will have the benefit of a final judgement on whether serious allegations have foundation,” he wrote in a letter to the Times.

    But Conservative MP Andrew Tyrie, who rebelled against the government, said he believed Lord Woolf was mistaken and too much power would lie in the hands of the government.

    “They (the amendments) are really about the kind of society we want to live in, about whether people can get to hear the case made against them, and whether we can keep legal safeguards we have had for generations,” he told MPs.

    Responding to Lord Woolf’s intervention, Reprieve – which campaigns to uphold the human rights of prisoners – said it was “hard to see how a case in which you cannot hear or challenge the evidence used against you can be described as meeting the standards of general justice”.’

    ~~~~

    Lord Neuberger, UK’s most senior judge, voices legal aid fears
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21665319

  123. Medialens on the same topic.

    Secret courts now a reality in the “U”K

    Posted by Hidari on March 5, 2013, 6:45 am

    “Great” Britain is not a democracy.

    “Clare Algar, executive director of Reprieve, said: “This has been a dark night for British justice.

    “These plans for secret courts were always dangerous and unnecessary, but the failure of even minor attempts to modify the bill means that it is even worse than when it first reached the House of Commons.

    “MPs must now vote against the bill altogether if they want to defend British justice.

    “Should that fail, the House of Lords will be the only thing standing in the way of plans which would mean the end of the right to a fair trial in a vast range of civil cases.”"

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2013/mar/04/secret-court-hearing-plans-government

    ~~
    If you have nothing to hide………………………

    Posted by Sherwoodian on March 5, 2013, 7:04 am, in reply to “Secret courts now a reality in the “U”K”

    Except if you are a banker or politician, in which case you have plenty to hide and nothing to fear.

  124. Bravo to the Icelanders, again. Where is our Birgitta Jónsdóttir? Instead we have the likes of motormouthpiece Claire Perry and the drab NuLabour wimmin on their front bench.

    Bradley Manning Nobel Peace Prize Nomination 2013
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/bradley-manning-nobel-peace-prize-nomination-2013/5325138

  125. Clark

    I phoned the Swiss police today. I told them it is absolutely untrue there was any attempt to enter the premises. For Mutabar to have put herself on Uzbek legal jurisdiction would have been potentially disastrous.

    Interestingly the Geneva police told me there was no log of the complaint in the police computer. This looks to me like the police just indulging in a bit of off the record harassment at the request of someone rich from Cologny. Very Swiss.

  126. Oh well, storm in a tea-cup then….

  127. Villager

    Except they still want to question her about this non-incident.

    For you or me it would be a minor inconvenience, but for someone who has been tortured and raped by the police in their own country, it can be pretty traumatic.

  128. Craig, this is very serious, and you were absolutely right to refer to “fascist Switzerland” in your title. The matter seems to be simultaneously both off and on the record, so the police are acting outside the law. Higher Swiss authorities must correct that. If they don’t, then Switzerland is indeed permitting a police state, at least in Geneva.

  129. KarimovaRevengeFantasist

    5 Mar, 2013 - 9:09 am

    @All
    Sorry if the addresses did not work in Google Satellite (Yes, Mary, my error, not Street View). I erroneously put “No.” in front, and I think the Swiss in any case put the house number after the street. You can see Lola’s sun loungers etc (and the picture of Lola’s pad matches Mary’s link to the Daily Mail article about Andrew Rosenfeld.

    Craig will know all about this: I expect the involvement of the Swiss police is probably due to even Gulnara’s and Lola’s private residences having diplomatic status (like the Uzbek embassy?) – so of course no matter how criminal these two are, the police have to respond to any complaints (I expect the live-in servants, if they have any, are under order to complain about harassment if anyone unexpectedly rings the doorbell).

    Neither of these two have any business acumen at all, so it is no surprise Lola’s husband overpaid so spectacularly on 14 Chemin Vert, Vandoeuvres. In order to avoid having the source of their funds scrutinised by the DARES (the département des affaires régionales, de l’économie et de la santé), I wonder if they had to declare these homes as their main residences (the link I posted earlier talks about this, but my French is not good enough). Also there is a 3,000 sq metre limitation of something (the floor space? the size of the plot of land?) to avoid automatic referral for scrutiny of their finances.

    The Swiss embassy in Tashkent has already been the site of a Karimov rent-a-mob protest once before, so I don’t think it reasonable that Switzerland and Sweden without support from the EU and the USA should be expected to take on the Karimov regime and prosecute these people and their money laundering associates (Miss Avakyan, Bekhzod Akhmedov, etc. – if the latter doesn’t show up dead first for knowing too much).

    It is plain to me none of Gulnara’s businesses are money-spinners: they are just a smokescreen to cover the thefts. Guli perfume – forget it – the market is crowded with big brand names – it is just a vanity project. Googoosha singing – forget it – she even has to rip off the famous Iranian singer’s name, Googoosh – and sales outside Uzbekistan (the only sales that matter wouldn’t keep the lights on in just one of her properties). Gulnara is an extraordinary thief (she is hundreds of millions of times worse than Martha Stewart). The purchased celebrity endorsements (Monica Bellucci, Alain Delon, etc.) and the sexy (often tarted up) images Gulnara publishes of herself are just another way to distract from the thefts. The truth is if you are in the dictatorship business, and you live by stealing off everybody else you have to get the money out of the country (procure forex) otherwise there is a risk of others using the same methods on you (no good having the money in Uzbek soms?). That is where I think the national airline comes in useful. It is hard to believe any Uzbeks (except money launderers) would be allowed out of the country with forex, so there can’t be many passengers on the Uzbekistan Airways route to Geneva. I think it is a door to door smuggling operation under diplomatic cover. To avoid the Central Bank Governor knowing too much, you would have to get your loot out in gold bars or jewels (no coincidence Gulnara is in the jewellery business either). Using foreign airlines is a no-no: you would have to declare the contents of the cargo perhaps? The diplomatic cars can meet the Uzbekistan Airways plane in Geneva of course. With aircraft, to make a profit the break even passenger load factor is very sensitive to just one or two passengers making the difference between profit and loss. I am sure that Uzbekistan Airways route to Geneva is a mega loss maker, but it requires someone to observe the passenger numbers each day to be certain. The allegations of sex trafficking to the UAE would be a plausible way of earning hard currency and of helping the Tashkent Dubai route meet that all important break even passenger load factor too.

    There are probably ways to hit back spectacularly at these two (and to make a profit doing it). But it is maybe not a good idea just yet (next year after Iran and Afghanistan are sorted out would be better?). Of course I maybe a deluded moron, so maybe I don’t have a clue. We’ll see.

  130. This changing of police records is reminiscent of events in Sweden concerning the treatment of Julian Assange, when Irmeli Krans was instructed to alter records. And here in the UK, courts with secret evidence have just been voted for. Our world is descending into fascism.

  131. KRF

    You talk much sense.
    The only thing is, that the police are obliged to conduct a complaint from a diplomatic mission only on the same basis that they investigate a complaint by anybody else (which is what the policeman says in the Le Temps article).

    In London Embassies make these complaints against dissidents all the time, especially the Chinese Embassy, but the Met won’t call the dissidents in for questioning unless the Embassy rpovides some cradible evidence of a crime. The Geneva police are not acting normally here.

  132. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    5 Mar, 2013 - 9:59 am

    @ Villager (22h20 yesterday) :

    I referred to Craig as @ Craig (Murray) because there had been another post from someone calling him/herself “Craig”. All clear now?

    And, by the way, I have not gone “quiet”. As I’ve said before, I do have other things to do with my time than to sit on this blog 24/7. Perhaps you don’t, in which case you should really try to get out more.

    @ Craig (Murray) :

    re. your invitation to me to contact the Geneva police. Well, this has been overtaken by several other posts, but still, could I suggest that it is for the person making the claim that someone has been called in for the “crime” of ringing a doorbell to justify his use of the word “crime”, and this would include investigating the matter more thoroughly yourself. After all, it’s your post and you were making the claim.

    Furthermore, why should one be so surprised that the Swiss police took an interest in this particular matter (especially if there had been a complaint from the Uzbeks)? Geneva is full of foreign missions, residences and diplomats and as you well know from the Vienna Convention and diplomatic practice there is an obligation on the host state to offer all due protection to such diplomats.

    Finally, I realise you have a particular and justifiable interest in Uzbekistan and this particular affair. But you are really going over the top when you call Switzerland the “world’s best disguised fascist state”, and I think you know it.
    Chucking accusations like that around makes you sound like some of your more ignorant and aggressive contributors (you’ll know whom I mean, I’m sure) and that is a great pity.

  133. Habbabkuk

    Of course it’s exaggerated, it’s a legitimate polemic technique. I think you know that too. Some things call for calm analysis, some for polemic. This is the latter.

    As I have constantly repeated, in London this happens absolutely all the time – the Chinese Embassy is especially assiduous at reporting dissidents. Your oblogation to protect diplomatic missions does not oblige you to proect them more than you would one of your own citizens. The police in London would NOT summons someone just because an Embassy complained, absent actual evidence of criminal activity – of which there is none.

  134. Switzerland is and has been a supporter of fascist tendencies, however much this riles some. They supported the NSDAP in 1933 to the tun e of 30.000 Swiss francs, a tidy sum then and they are still supporting fascists to day, but they do not distinguish whether the money comes from the likes of Berlusconi, the Vatican bank’s shady deals or from genuine fascists like the Karimov clan.

    Switzerland’s democracy still has to undertake this retrospective look at its past and act, realise who is still influencing their society, its not just banks but also individuals in large trans national companies that have managed to keep out of the limelight which need to be pointed out for their deeds.

  135. Habbabkuk, historically, many populations have failed to realise as their governments have descended into fascism. We are seeing the signs now, in the US, the EU and Australia. Soon it may be too late to change sides. From my perspective, you currently seem to be on the wrong side. But maybe you prefer power over freedom. You have repeatedly shown signs of being a cyber-bully.

  136. Toblerone.

    There,i said it.

  137. Geneva police station commented on their action stating that you were charged for illegal enter into a private property…!

  138. Andrew when? Where?

  139. Uzbek in the UK

    5 Mar, 2013 - 11:35 am

    Evgueni

    From the top of my head some of the books that are interestingly link Swiss baking to the global money laundering network of world’s most corrupt systems.

    When States Fail: Causes and Consequences

    Rotten States: Corruption in Post-communism

    Offshore

    And the books that will blow your mind off. First ‘Secrets of Swiss Banking’ from an assets manager advising by all means to choose Switzerland (guess why but read the book first). And another one ‘Swiss Whitewash’ from the former Swiss parliament man one of those rare case critics of Swiss banking industry.

    Also in my previous links to the news reports two things are very clear. First is that dictators money (of world’s most corrupt and tyrannical dictatorships) in large quantities were in Switzerland and second that existence of this money (in large quantities) were made public only after this dictators lost their power and fallen from grace. Now imagine how much more money are in Switzerland and we can only speculate whether or not we will ever find out about their existence.

  140. Crab

    You beat me to it. Andrew reference please. I phoned them today and they claimed there was no record of the incident or the complaint.

  141. So if you did enter her private property…does it mean that you will be called to the Swiss Court? Or its only about Mrs. Tadjinaeva?

  142. ‘There’s a New World coming.’

    I read that, Villager, and immediately thought of Judith Durham (showing my age again); thanks for that!

  143. Michel,

    We did not enter the property, or make any attempt to enter the property. It is strange that apparently a complaint has only been made about Ms Tdjibaeva and not about me. But it is even more strange that when I called the Geneva Police today to offer to give a statemet, they said they had no trace of any complaint or any incident.

  144. KarimovaRevengeFantasist

    5 Mar, 2013 - 1:56 pm

    @Craig
    Thanks for the compliment and for your info on the behaviour of overseas diplomats here. I had no idea they behaved like that.

    @all

    If you require any absolute-beginner level expertise in connection with the Karimova sisters involving Perso-Arabic or Thai script or securities analysis (interpreting company accounts), I may be able to help.

    I have to learn how to craft long sentences, and how to punctuate them to mean what I intend them to before I am competent to write power prose like you lot, and of course I have to find a job, so I can’t always participate like others here.

    The obnoxious charity work these two sisters do is of course reminiscent of Jimmy Saville’s modus operandi, except they are using it to cover up theft. I am in the process of writing to the new CEO of Teliasonera, so that he is under no illusion about the wisdom of investing in Uzbekistan from his shareholders’ financial point of view. It is a fair amount of brain ache to do a decent letter, so my efforts may yet be overtaken by events. I am not confident anything is going happen from the Swedish and Swiss money laundering enquiries until things have been sorted out in Iran and Afghanistan. Barack Obama will to do his Kennedy-Cuban-missile-crisis stuff with Iran first (or they will have to detonate a bomb – yes, it is quite an irony that the pressure may be driving them to get a bomb, but without the sanctions, I am in no doubt they would get one anyway – the leadership’s ideology is too flawed to earn respect without support from a nuke?

    None of the Gulnara’s techniques of manipulating the business environment to siphon off every cent of Uzbek wealth to herself are beyond the comprehension of 8 year-olds (although it is certainly a challenge to communicate it in massive detail within their attention span). Anyway I’ll have to leave it there and sign off now. I hope Mutabar Tadjibaeva’s experience with the Swiss police is not too awful – it must be quite scary if you don’t speak any French at all. Roll on the day when Gulnara’s and Lola’s properties are seized by the Swiss authorities.

  145. Uzbek in the UK

    5 Mar, 2013 - 2:45 pm

    Mr Murray,

    Seems like either swiss police just decided to act as you said ‘swiss way’ to protect wealthy residents or as they backed down. In any case it seems that whoever called police just wanted to get rid of you and as they were not in Uzbekistan they could not just beat you up and break your bones at the spot. So calling police was the only option.

    Is it possible to get local media involved? Taking into account some recent developments with Gulnara’s money laundering in Switzerland it might make some good headlines. Physically abused Human Right Activist is wanted for questioning by swiss police for just knocking a door of the daughter of Uzbek president, one of the most brutal dictators of the world and abuser of the wanted.

  146. Uzbek in the UK

    5 Mar, 2013 - 3:08 pm

    KRF

    This day may never come. It seems their father can manipulate great power well. Even after Afghanistan is sorted it is unlikely that US lose its interests in Central Asia where Uzbekistan will always be their preferred ally. And also considering that Karimova’s have good relations with some of the world’s well known financeiers it is unlikely that the money they have stolen will ever be found and made public.

    And now about writing to the new CEO of Teliasonera. I would save myself a time as it is not worth the effort. You might know that there are two business strategies. One is short term investments which is usually risky but more profitable than the long term which is usually more stable but less profitable. Uzbekistan (providing certain peoples loyalty is bought) is perfect field for the short term investment. Operating in Uzbek market is perfect opportunity to make quick buck. Due to harsh governmental control the market is virtually closed for outsiders (except those who managed to buy loyalty of certain people) and thus competition is virtually inexistent. Plus (providing certain peoples loyalty is bought) one could avoid paying high taxes and could even convert money into hard currency, something that is again virtually impossible for others.

    Of course when bought loyalty is no longer investment is lost forever with virtually no options to appeal of any other kind of legal procedure. I am sure that Teliasonera is well aware of Uzbekistan and all sort of underwater stones there and their initial investment interests come from their short term strategy. I doubt that there are any serious business people in the world who could think of Uzbekistan as a field for the long term investment, including Pentagon.

  147. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    5 Mar, 2013 - 3:14 pm

    @ Craig Murray (10h15) :

    OK, I understand what you say; perhaps I don’t yet have enough of the “habit of the blog” as we say to interpret your moods accurately enough.

    But I honestly do think that you should not throw aound words like “fascist” even for dramatic heightening (although its a temptation we’ve all fallen into, I’m sure) because you thereby encourage the loonier Eminences on this blog to lose touch even further with reality and say the first thing that comes into their mind.

    You’re not convinced?

    Look then at the comments from Clark at 10h22, with which he suggests either (2 interpretations are possibly thanks to his clumsy phasing) that the US, Australia and the EU have already descended into “facism”, or that the populations of those areas have failed to see that the US, Australia and the EU are descending into “facism”.

    Or look at Never-a-mind at 10h18, who calls Switzerland a fascist state, claims that “they” supported the NSDAP to the tune of 30.000 francs (who is “they”, by the way? The government? Individuals? Political parties? The Employers Federation?…)and that Switzerland still supports “facists” today (which facists, by the way? Or do you mean Berlusconi and the Vatican bank? They are facists?)

    Let us overlook the fact that individuals like Clark and Never-a-mind obviously have no idea of what facism is. The difference between you and them, Craig, is that you used the word for dramatic effect, if you will, but they actually believe the nonsense they’re spouting. And since I judge them – as the other Eminences – to be relatively impressionable characters, your use of the word, even if not meant seriously, is ill-advised.

    And now I’ll shut up :)

  148. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    5 Mar, 2013 - 3:16 pm

    @ Uzbek (11h35) : is the former Swiss parliamentarian to whom you refer Jean Ziegler by any chance? Thx.

  149. ^and that folks — is show Business.

    Take a bow Hubbubcook.

  150. Habbakuk

    You don’t appear to have defined your terms above. This relates to my observation yersterday that your claim to “refining terms for accuracy”, is a nonsense believed only by yourself.

    If your dispute with others arises over usage of the term “fascism”, then it’s very very dim that you don’t yourself say what you mean by it.

    Don’t you know?

  151. Mutabar should not have had any fear. Swiss police would have only asked her some questions and seeing no bad intent would let her go. For sure they would not arrest her. There is no offence in ringing somebody’s door. Police in Geneva have experience with various activists and events, it has happened in Geneva many times before, many dictators used to (or still) have houses and mansions in Confederatio Helvetica.

    Now, for those who are looking at the Google images of the houses, I would advice not to asses the grandeur of the mansions, rather, how much they were paid for. Everyone here in Switzerland knows how it works. Money-laundering. You offer 10 million for a 3 million house, and then get your 6 million back in cash and one million goes to get the seller of the house interested in the deal. The prices are not fixed here, aproximate. Similarly, Lola who paid 42 million francs, and Gulnora who paid 21 million francs for their relatively small houses, intended not only to buy a house, but also get some real cash money on their accounts. That explains why they keenly overpaid (through canton Zug based Zeromax I suppose? It is where German companies who did not get paid 68 mln euros for their work in UZB, have to look for their money, in Geneva).

    The idea of “occupying” those places sounds hilarious.

    PS: One should not forget that the Swiss also often freeze bank accounts of former dictators, especially if money is not flowing in anymore, and the person is not at business or power. That happened with ex African dictators. Kazakh president also knows the bitter taste of such a “moody” character of the Swiss. His 200 million USD was blocked after bribery allegations, and Swiss banks agreed only to pay back 80 million USD to charity funds in Kazakhstan with a certain expiration date. Lola and Gulnora should not think that the overly friendly Swiss will not turn their backs when suddenly the family is not at power anymore or kick on their bottoms.

  152. Does anybody know any other government in this pity world, whose embassies abroad try to get own citizens into a prison (whom it is supposed to protect)? :)

  153. Sounds like a fair stick Zokirsho, but mightn’t play out, like Pinochet?

  154. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    5 Mar, 2013 - 5:06 pm

    @ Herbie :

    I think that you might agree that most educated people know what fascism is (was). Those who don’t could profitably read up on those two egregious examples of fascism in practice, pre-war Italy and Germany.

    So, whereas it might be very, very silly of me not to define every word I use in my comments, it is even sillier for you, in the light of those two examples, to ask for a definition of fascism and sillier still, in the light of those two same examples, for people like Clark to claim that the US, the EU and Australia are “fascist” states.

  155. Habbakuk

    You may well think that most educated people know what fascism is, but it’s not quite that simple I’m afraid.

    That’s why I asked you what you meant by the term. You’d agree surely that if your dispute with others is their use of the term, inappropriately you say, then you’d really need to be clear yourself on what precisely you mean by it.

    So what was it about these German and Italian regimes that made them examples of fascism. It’s a straighforward question.

    What are the defining features of fascism, according to you.

  156. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    5 Mar, 2013 - 5:27 pm

    Sweden, like Switzerland claimed neutrality during the Nazi’s heydays, but they laundered the gold taken from Holocaust victims, had poor refugee provisions, if any at all, and have never apologized for their culpability.

    No, they didn’t wear storm-trooper togs, or SS skull and crossbones, but they might as well have.

    The worst type of Nazi is the stealth Nazi.

  157. doug scorgie

    5 Mar, 2013 - 9:05 pm

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)
    5 Mar, 2013 – 5:06 pm

    You say:

    “I think that you might agree that most educated people know what fascism is (was).”

    From various strands on Wikipedia:

    “Fascists seek to unify their nation through a totalitarian state that seeks the mass mobilization of the national community.”

    The USA after 9/11?

    “Fascists are hostile to liberal democracy, socialism, and communism.”

    The USA? Israel?

    “Fascist movements share certain common features, including the veneration of the state, a devotion to a strong leader, and an emphasis on ultra-nationalism, ethnocentrism, and militarism.”

    The USA? Israel?

    “Fascism views political violence, war, and imperialism as a means to achieve national rejuvenation and asserts that “superior” nations and races should attain living space by displacing weak and inferior ones.”

    The USA? Israel?

    You say:

    “Those who don’t [know what fascism is] could profitably read up on those two egregious examples of fascism in practice, pre-war Italy and Germany.”

    See:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8316271.stm

    Not quite so simple is it?

  158. Chris Jones

    5 Mar, 2013 - 9:28 pm

    errr…you forgot the collusion and merging of government and corporatism – leading to a communist state run by corporate interests…

  159. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    5 Mar, 2013 - 9:36 pm

    @ Herbie : have you morphed into a schoolmaster asking questions of his pupils?
    You know perfectly well what fascism is, I know it, and most educated people know it. And most intelligent people know that it is absurd to call the US, the EU and Australia “fascist”. That is the essential point, and I’m not going to help you distact people’s attention from it by entering into any silly-clever question and answer session which you will seek to draw out for ever.

    By the way, do you consider the US, the EU and Australia to be fascist?

  160. Habbakuk writes

    “You know perfectly well what fascism is, I know it, and most educated people know it.”

    Why Habbakuk’s continued reluctance to define the term “fascism”, despite his argument being about inappropriate use of the term.

    Is there a worry perhaps that the details may be all too familiar.

  161. Come now pseuds – theres no time for this mental masturbation. Is Westminster, the EU and the USA not slowly and plainly merging with the corporations? Yes i think is the answer

  162. Uzbek,

    thanks again I will add the titles you recommend to my reading list. I don’t want to be misunderstood though – imagining and speculating is precisely what I wish to avoid. It is a natural human tendency to imagine the worst and to speculate endlessly in the absence of information as this blog demonstrates amply.

    I expect to find that the Swiss banks are very effective at attracting international hoarders including those of the evil dictator variety. For me that is beyond dispute. It is also not at all surprising that we don’t know about the dictators’ accounts until after they are formally accused of crimes in a legal sense. That is client confidentiality, not exclusively a Swiss prerogative. Do you know of any banks around the world that publish lists of their most notorious clients? Why demand a higher standard of the Swiss?

    I also wonder about this – financial advisers invariably talk of spreading the risk. Dictators presumably get the same eggcellent advice ;-) Are they then ignoring it? Or are there less transparent tax havens even than Switzerland that we don’t hear about.

    The really interesting questions to me are these. Is there a practical way to implement an unambiguous legal framework that would allow the banks to distinguish between evil dictators and merely borderline corrupt authoritarians? What would be the legal test. And, can we reasonably expect the Swiss authorities to take unilateral action in this regard?

    My original question was if there is credible evidence that the Swiss financial sector welcomes dirty money more than any other financial sector. It still stands, because I can see another reason for Swiss banks’ popularity with this type of ‘investor’, namely the Swiss franc’s proven track record of resistance to debasement.

  163. With regard to Craig’s extrapolations from the irregular / incomprehensible facts of this incident. Generalising from a statistical sample of one is very poor practice.

    Several have mentioned negative experiences arising from visiting Switzerland. I think they experienced culture shock. I have experienced it myself several times in my life, most recently on moving from Surrey to Bucks :-) Joking aside though, the first 3-6 months are always tough and I remember being constantly wound up by some of the Swiss peculiarities. It soon wore off. I also hated it with a passion on first arrival in Marseille, but regretted having to leave at the end of a year’s stay. My very first culture shock – England at the age of 16, lasted a whole year. After 14 months living in London I intentionally went back to (Soviet then) Ukraine, leaving my parents and sister behind in London. The events of August 1991 scappered my plan. It was in that first year in London that I experienced my only arrest – Metropolitan police officers decided that I was far too foreign to be allowed to remain in the strategic location of Green Park tube station exit (my job was handing out free advertising magazines). Several hours in a cell without explanation was a valuable lesson. By comparison the Swiss police spot check in a Zurich street was a breeze – though surprised to find such an obvious eastern European type carrying a UK passport, they apologised and let me on my way. You can see I won’t be falling for ‘our police are better than their police’ fairy tales.

    If you like to Swiss-bash and you need ammo you could do a lot worse than reading David Hampshire’s Living and Working in Switzerland. Highly recommended, though no substitute for actual experience. Plenty of examples of infuriating (to a Brit) Swissness.

    Craig, and others – generalising naively about ‘the Swiss’ and ‘Switzerland’ has its pitfalls. It is a confederation in practice and not merely in word, meaning that only those powers are delegated to the federal level that the cantons willingly give away (canton is in practice represented by local parliament which is constrained by the people through referendum and initiative rights). The Swiss federal government is not omnipotent as we reflexively assume based on our only experience of governments – our own shamocratic ones. Factor in the considerable cultural differences between the German and French cantons and any generalisations about the Geneva police practices being ‘very Swiss’ are plainly bunk. Again. How very Craig Murray ;-)

  164. > Except they still want to question her about this non-incident.

    Just wondering – how was she “informed” that she was wanted by the police ? In written form ? If not could it some sort of hoax ?

  165. Sorry my bad – just realized by reading the “Temps” article that she was called over the phone by a french speaking individual. Did she – or anyone else – validate that the call was really from the Geneva police. Did the person introduce itself ? I certainly don’t want to exonerate them of anything yet but do we know for fact that this was really the local authorities calling ?

  166. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    6 Mar, 2013 - 7:38 am

    Thank you, Evgeni, for your two posts; it is refreshing to read comments which have been thought out and based (although I realise that this can not always be the case) on facts and personal experience rather than abstract theorizing and blind hearsay or, worse, prejudice. As I know Switzerland rather well, I would endorse what you say.

    I do however find that you are somewhat hard on Craig in the last sentence of your second post. Craig has admitted that his comment about Switzerland being fascist was a polemical one and that’s fair enough, I guess. Far more objectionable (and ill-founded) were the comments from various Eminences who were obviously unable to resist adding another figure to their demonology (the EU, the global Zionist plot, the Rothschilds, the corporations, the USA, the climate change “deniers” et ainsi de suite…).

  167. “Let us overlook the fact that individuals like Clark and Never-a-mind obviously have no idea of what facism is.”

    Let us overlook that Habbakuk does not really know much about his own history never mind that of Germany.

    Firstly, its fascism, dear old boy, your personal piss taking aside, tell us
    are you really a prick or do just carry it up your backside.
    please elucidate.

  168. KarimovaRevengeFantasist

    6 Mar, 2013 - 11:57 am

    @Uzbek in the UK

    Thanks for the info about your country. I think I understand the business environment very well in your country – nobody makes any money there without paying off Lola and Gulnara, although some of the ways they extract profits from businesses are not evident to many people in the U.K. and are perhaps not straightforward to understand without an understanding of corporate finance – Gulnara knows all about how to create “economic rents” from scarcity and how to secure them for herself to the exclusion of her business partners. The phoney exchange rate is also great for ripping off foreign businesses. It is not for nothing Uzbekistan is usually in the bottom five or six most corrupt countries in the world, year after year. And of course Gulnara has extra options like chucking people into jail if they don’t do what she wants.

    President Karimov can’t have another term as President after this one, and I think he has not much time left, so the jockeying for succession must already have started. The more forex you have stashed outside the country, the more power you have, hence Gulnara’s $10m Moscow apartment. I have been searching in countries that Uzbekistan Airways airline flies to. I will not be surprised if she has properties in Spain, France, the UAE and even in Thailand and Iran. (There have even been articles about her in the Persian language press).

    The purpose of writing to Teliasonera is so that the CEO can’t get out of knowing just how unsafe it is to have any business interests in Uzbekistan. Gulnara and Lola are addicted to theft, so of course they will suck every cent out of Ucell (Teliasonera’s Uzbek subsidiary) at some point, and then the Teliasonera shareholders at some future AGM will be able to sack their CEO. It is interesting Takilant didn’t exercise its put option to force Teliasonera to increase its stake in Ucell for an extortionate sum of Swedish Krone.

    I think the USA and UK would be wise to do a volte face on supporting Karimov as soon as we have got our troops out of Afghanistan. The damage Lola and Gulnara are doing is incalculable. And of course if Iran collapses, we might not even need Uzbekistan any more to keep our troops in Afghanistan supplied with all the morale boosting stuff from home they need.

  169. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    6 Mar, 2013 - 12:25 pm

    @ Never-a-mind (11h01) :

    “Let us overlook that Habbabkuk does not really know much about his own history never mind that of Germany”

    The above comment is a substantive and thoughful addition to the debate, but is unfortunately marred by two small flaws :

    1/. when you say “your own history”, I suppose you don’t mean my own personal life story but the history of my country? Just tell which that country is and I’ll tell you if you’re right or not.

    2/. I know enough about the history of Germany for present purposes. But please fell free to point out any error of historical fact I may have made.

    I await your answers with bated breath.

    Your Rektor,

    Dr Dr Habbabbkuk

  170. Habbabkuk,

    it was a tit for tat. I was recycling Craig’s polemic technique to expose how silly it is. Only 0.3% of readership are likely to read his admission, most will remember only the headline. This is how MSM operate. If he adopts their method he ought to understand the consequences – in case they turn out to be not as intended.

  171. KarimovaRevengeFantasist

    7 Mar, 2013 - 1:45 am

  172. Millions of Ordinary teachers, doctors and nurses are being deprived of their miserable wages by the government, stating that is a ‘payment’ for the gaz supply.In fact, no one seen neither used gaz throughout minus twenty winter colds, neither during cold spring.
    So there their money go…Switzland!Geneva…God Dumn them all.

  173. Your post was very informative thank you for that

  174. KarimovaRevengeFantasist

    12 Mar, 2013 - 3:41 pm

    Another purchased damage-limitation article replete with soft slightly out-of-focus photo of herself in a WHITE blouse; but clean of theft of hundreds of millions of dollars, she is not. The article is “exclusif” – well it would be if you pay Bilan to write about you.

    http://www.bilan.ch/economie-les-plus-de-la-redaction/gulnara-karimova-des-adversaires-ont-associe-mon-nom-cette-affaire

    Gulnara = fleur de Grenadine. LMAO.

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