The Falklanders Have the Right to be Stupid

by craig on March 14, 2013 10:18 am in Uncategorized

When there is a 99.8% vote for something, either it isn’t a democracy or it is a very stupid question. Nobody has ever disputed that the majority of the Falkland Islanders wish to remain British. The point of the referendum was simply to annoy and upset Argentina, and that is very stupid indeed.

You cannot escape geography. The trade and communication links of the Falklands should naturally be with Latin America, not with another small island half the world away. Given that Latin America is undergoing an economic, cultural and political resurgence that is truly exciting, while the UK is in an accelerating spiral of decline, that should be a good thing. Unless you are very stupid.

David Cameron is fond of citing individual cases of families in the UK whose benefits cost the British taxpayer over £30,000 per year. But each and every family in the Falkland Islands costs the British taxpayer ten times that – something which Cameron does not detail.

But the first expenditure is motivated by compassion, which enjoys precious little political and media support. The second expenditure is driven by militarism and jingoism, which can never be questioned and enjoy unlimited political and media support.

Britain’s ability to sustain the Falklands will not last forever, not least militarily. With expenditure cuts and every last penny of discretionary expenditure going into the black hole marked “Trident”, Britain would be hard pushed to re-invade the Isle of Man, let alone the Falklands. The inability of the islanders to read the writing on the wall is astonishing. They have all the long term vision of that other island race, the dodo.

But they do have the right to be stupid. Attachment to the rule of international law is central to my belief on how the world should be run, and I am obliged to say that, in international law, Argentina’s claim to the Falkland Islands is a nonsense. The Argentinians are not the indigenous inhabitants of the islands, nor does the Argentine government represent the indigenous population of the Falklands. The large majority of Argentinians are not even the indigenous population of Argentina. They are simply a rival bunch of colonialists, very many of British descent.

Like Diego Garcia, which should and must be returned to its native population, any genuine indigenous population would have the right to the islands in international law under decolonisation. But there is not one. A rival and defeated colonial occupier does not have the claims of an indigenous population. There is no important rival here to the principle of self-determination in the legal argument.

The Falklanders do have the right to be stupid. The refendum is a prime example of how to be stupid, as it is the opposite of the link-building and cooperation that needs to be done. The potential oil fields have been greatly exaggerated, but what oil there is lies under deep water and is already very difficult; potential conflict blights the possibilities for investment completely. Cooperation is in everybody’s interest.

Were I the Argentinian government, I would smother the Falklands with love. I would completely open all air links and sea routes. I would initiate a regular free postal service to forward on mail through Argentina. I would provide an air ambulance service on permanent standby to whip very serious cases from the Falklands to the mainland for free treatment. I would organise a regular supply ship of subsidised goods and food. I would provide free university scholarships to all Falklanders. I would give a large government subsidy to any company in Argentina which employs a Falklander.

I would also work hard on the darker diplomatic arts. I would identify a couple of Falkland Island councillors and put ten million dollars each into numbered Swiss accounts for them, on condition that they facilitate the provision of the free air ambulance service (which is easy to reconcile the conscience to, and an easy way to start). I would put attractive young Argentinian agents into the path of Falklanders, any Falklanders, at every opportunity.

I appreciate that all Argentinian offers would suffer inital rebuff. But Argentina should keep trying. Switch off the rhetoric, and turn up the love. Geography and economic trends are with the Argentines here. The Falklanders do have the right to choose. Argentina’s task is to change their minds.

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128 Comments

  1. My beef is that when it comes to Diego Garcia the British cleared the Island for use by the US military and shot all their dogs. People who think the elites are going to share any Falklands’ oil finds with the population are fluoridated and sheep dipped.

    Great headline. Very witty given it’s recent usage elsewhere.

  2. Spot on. Please copy to the Argentinian government.

  3. I wrote about this in January and updated it for the referendum, making similar points to what Craig Murray so aptly makes in his blog. My main gripe though is why the UK taxpayer is not asked an opinion on why £92,000 of taxpayers’ money is wasted in “protecting” each Falkland Island family.

    http://newsjunkiepost.com/2013/01/05/las-malvinas-or-the-falkland-islands-the-ugly-face-of-british-imperialism-and-its-startling-cost/

    And the Chagos Islanders from Diego Garcia dumped by the UK military with one suitcase penniless on the quayside of Mauritius demonstrates what concern the UK has for native island families. The Falklands are just a strategic military base perpetuating neo-colonilist ambitions. Macmillan’s ‘winds of change’ speech might just as well never have taken place. We’re back to the old ways.

  4. I meant to add what a good post it was, since it not only outlines the problem, but gives practical advice on how to resolve the issue. Thanks

  5. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    14 Mar, 2013 - 11:08 am

    @ Craig :

    I must say that when I started reading your piece I thought “oh, oh, oh dear…!) and could feel my combative sap starting to rise but am happy to admit after reading it to the end – and re-reading it – that it’s rational, well balanced and positive in intention. It has the further merit of starting off from the here-and-now and avoiding the all too common tendency when this question is raised of focussing on fruitless topics such as who was to “blame” for the Falkland’s war. The conclusion in your two last sentences is spot on in terms of indicating the way forward. Let us hope that matters develop in the way you envisage.

    I would just quibbble slightly about characterising the referendum as stupid; I should rather see it as understandable in terms of providing a relatively non-belligerent counter-move to the recent ratcheting-up of the issue from the Argentine side. But this is a minor quibble.

    Thanks again!

  6. Brilliant article.
    Thanks for showing that a discussion about the Falklands can be nuanced and insightful, and not just a dogmatic slanging match of “Argies go home” versus “Down with evil British empire”

  7. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    14 Mar, 2013 - 11:18 am

    John Goss says :

    “My main gripe though is why the UK taxpayer is not asked an opinion on why £92,000 of taxpayers’ money is wasted in “protecting” each Falkland Island family.”

    If for the sake of argument we admit for a moment that this is a valid gripe, how would you suggest that this should have been done in practice?

    *********

    La vita è bella, life is good!

  8. Brilliant insight – a breathtaking comment in more ways than one –

    Ad Idem – Ad captandum vulgus

  9. I remember Saddam winning elections with 99.9 percent of the Iraqi votes. Falklands population ought to have been Iraqis evidently. This dog and pony show to annoy the Argies, did not come free, whilst the folks in “mainland UK” are paying “bedroom Tax” (probably next it will be sex tax that is introduced to pay for the excesses of the banksters and the coalition “carry on government”).

    However harking back to the days of the invasion and borrowing a phrase: “Bennies”, these will always remain Bennies.

  10. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    14 Mar, 2013 - 12:25 pm

    @ November :

    “I remember Saddam winning elections with 99.9 percent of the Iraqi votes”

    Your point is?

    ***********

    La vita è bella, life is good!

  11. Not sure it’s a good idea to be suggesting corruption of British Overseas Territories citizens – it’s probably illegal under the Bribery Act, but you’re right as to generally what Argentina has to do if it ultimately wants the Falklanders to accept it.

    I was thinking about this myself. It seems to me that the Falklands have a major problem with two elements – (1) they are unable to develop due to lack of population growth; and (2) they are cautious of increased immigration as it could marginalise the existing Falklanders and lead to an Argentinian takeover.
    A secondary problem, which is also a problem for the UK, is the frosty relationship with its closest neighbour which is very costly in terms of military spending and inhibiting trade.

    They either have to bite the bullet and hope that the attractions of a common law system and a special constitutional status will keep immigrants loyal and open the borders to some extent.

    Another, “clever”, idea is to split the Falklands into East and West Falkand (very easy to do), with West Falkland being governed as a sub-territory of East Falkland. They could then open up West Falkland (current population 200) to immigration and build up what they need for oil infrastructure. If West Falkland decides to go Argentinian it is no big deal – everybody would be much wealthier and it would have a more viable community – the East Falklanders could maintain their anglo culture, with a more latin culture on West Falkland. Territories that have free trade with each other rarely bother going to war.

  12. I agree with Craig’s point – “The point of the referendum was simply to annoy and upset Argentina, and that is very stupid indeed.”

    It is NOT understandable to play chess with people’s lives i.e. the Falkland islanders. To say otherwise indicates a complete lack of moral fortitude.

  13. Excellent post, Craig. Funny and informative – Funformative!

    You gotta be suspicious of a bunch of islands that are uninhabited on your first visit.

    Primer -
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands

  14. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!),

    I am sorry to have given the wrong impression that I may give a fuck about what a ziofuckwit thinks, in fact I don’t.

  15. Simply brilliant headline, followed by a brilliant article. I love the ‘smother with love’ idea. I’ve often thought the US should have done the same with Vietnam. If only they had given every village and hamlet a free scholarship or two for their kids to go and study in the US…They could have won the hearts and minds and it would have cost peanuts compared to the cost of the war.

  16. A Jesuit Jam:

    The election of Pope Francis, previously Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio, has resurfaced a decades-old controversy surrounding the kidnappings of two Jesuit priests.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/13/pope-francis-kidnapping_n_2870251.html

  17. Ah yes ‘The black arts’ – British foreign policy praxis in a nutshell. I’ve often wondered weather successful completion of a course or two on Machiavelli were obligatory for FCO advancement to ambassador level and beyond. An ethos where humanitarian considerations are of interest only to the extent they are either an asset or an obstacle, unrelated (almost by definition) to major policy goals.

    The Falklands population have the good fortune to be in the former category; the Chagossians the misfortune to be in the latter. It really is that simple.

    When I first heard the actual result, my first thought was that it was eerily reminicent of Hitler’s 1938 Anschluss referendum – 98%+ said YES!!! with scenes of wild jingoistic jubilation in both countries. Hmmmm – That didn’t end too well did it?

  18. Mary - for Truth and Justice

    14 Mar, 2013 - 2:03 pm

    I said yesterday that it was a ‘farce’:

    “The man who said ‘No’. Well there were three of them actually. ‘Get them off these islands immediately’.
    Result: Of 1,517 votes cast in the two-day referendum – on a turnout of more than 90% – 1,513 were in favour, while just three votes were against.
    What a farce.”

    Somebody who shall be nameless took me to task as is his/her wont:

    “Can you indicate why you think the referendum was a farce?
    Can you assure us that had there not been a referendum, you would not have critised the government for not holding one?
    Thank you”

    Now that somebody seems to agree with Craig.

    “@ Craig :

    I must say that when I started reading your piece I thought “oh, oh, oh dear…!) and could feel my combative sap starting to rise but am happy to admit after reading it to the end – and re-reading it – that it’s rational, well balanced and positive in intention. It has the further merit of starting off from the here-and-now and avoiding the all too common tendency when this question is raised of focussing on fruitless topics such as who was to “blame” for the Falkland’s war.

    The conclusion in your two last sentences is spot on in terms of indicating the way forward. Let us hope that matters develop in the way you envisage.
    I would just quibbble slightly about characterising the referendum as stupid; I should rather see it as understandable in terms of providing a relatively non-belligerent counter-move to the recent ratcheting-up of the issue from the Argentine side. But this is a minor quibble.
    Thanks again!”

    Very much like the winds earlier this week. Veering on all points of the compass from due North to South South East!

    Lovely admission there of possession of combative sap. No comment.

  19. Mary, you have complained about Habbabkuk’s hounding of you yet, on at least two threads including this one, you have pre-emptively attacked him thereby attracting his attention. Is this the arcane, somewhat bizzare mating courtship that Sir David Attenborough is famous for meticulously documenting in exotic animals?

    What say you, Habbabkuk? A gentleman is required to make his true intentions known.

  20. Mary - for Truth and Justice

    14 Mar, 2013 - 2:34 pm

    No.:) The saints preserve me. Just giving as good as I have received and some getting of one’s own back. LOL

  21. Wikispooks at 2 p.m. You could put in a link to that article on “A Tale of two islands” which is excellent logic.

  22. An interesting piece of 1841 Falklands history is the failure of the British Government to accept the offer of General Rosas to relinquish any Argentine territorial claims in return for relief of debts owed to now defunct Barings Bank in the City of London.

    The British Government chose to ignore the offer.

    Ironically Nick Leeson’s forgery was Baring’s bank demise – once again leaving N M Rothschild & Sons to dominate and control our lives…

    Which to me coins a phrase – Wearing a ‘Leeson Jacket’ – is a precursor to monetary collapse. An inevitable conclusion.

  23. @Jemand – Evolutionary Religion 101

    ‘Is this the arcane, somewhat bizarre mating courtship…’

    Yes, I must admit, I’ve wondering for a while now whether Mary and Habbabkuk were actually the same person posting under different pseudonyms….

    Ah just kidding, Mary! just kidding :)

  24. “The trade and communication links of the Falklands should naturally be with Latin America, not with another small island half the world away.”

    Actually it’s only one-third of the way round the world. But it is every inch of that.

    “I am obliged to say that, in international law, Argentina’s claim to the Falkland Islands is a nonsense. The Argentinians are not the indigenous inhabitants of the islands, nor does the Argentine government represent the indigenous population of the Falklands. The large majority of Argentinians are not even the indigenous population of Argentina.”

    I am obliged to say that, if those are its criteria (and I have no doubt that you are right about the matter) international law is nonsense. By those criteria – as every intelligent person should immediately notice – the USA does not belong to those of its present inhabitants who are of European descent. They are not the indigenous inhabitants of North America, nor does their government represent the indigenous population of the USA. So what?

    More radically, the very idea of an indigenous population is intrinsically meaningless. When examined closely, it evaporates. From the dawn of prehistory, human beings have been looking for a better place to live, and (until the last few years) cheerfully exterminating or enslaving the previous occupants in the process. Who are the “indigenous inhabitants” of Britain, pray?

  25. resident dissident

    14 Mar, 2013 - 3:59 pm

    I agree, try to take the nationalism out of it and give economic and geographic logic the opportunity to work. However, I suspect that given recent history and the tendency of both UK and Argentinian governments to resort to flag waving nationalism when they are in economic difficulties it may be a very long haul. If Galtieri hadn’t been so daft to invade my guess is that all the dual sovereignty thinking that was going on before would have probably already come to fruition.

  26. Africom Pope

    14 Mar, 2013 - 4:12 pm

    The vote was akin to asking West Bank settlers if they wanted to remain Israeli. I notice how the UK always says it’s not about the oil because the only beneficiaries will be the Islanders who do not pay tax to the UK. There are hundreds of billions in potential tax revenue, is this seriously just going to be hoarded by a couple of thousand islanders? Which begs the question of why impoverished UK tax payers should be expected to provide and pay for the armed forces that are permanently based there to protect the interests of the oil companies and a couple of thousand would be multi-millionaires.

  27. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    14 Mar, 2013 - 4:29 pm

    @ November (13h15) :

    “Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!),

    I am sorry to have given the wrong impression that I may give a fuck about what a ziofuckwit thinks, in fact I don’t.”

    Thank you for that polite and informative answer to a perfectly reasonable question.

    **********

    La vita è bella, life is good!

  28. “why impoverished UK tax payers should be expected to provide and pay for the armed forces that are permanently based there to protect the interests of the oil companies and a couple of thousand would be multi-millionaires.”

    Yes. That’s the trick. UK taxpayers fund corporate interests, as do US taxpayers too of course.

    Dress it up with a bit of nationalism, exceptualism, “too big to fail” and “our boys” and “heroes” and other media mumbo jumbo and your pockets will have been picked while you were looking elsewhere.

    Bravo!

    Never before has so much been given. by so many, to so few.

    It’s left to whistleblowers and alternative media to break the illusionist’s hold.

  29. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    14 Mar, 2013 - 4:43 pm

    @ Wikispooks (14h00) :

    “When I first heard the actual result, my first thought was that it was eerily reminicent of Hitler’s 1938 Anschluss referendum – 98%+ said YES!!! with scenes of wild jingoistic jubilation in both countries. Hmmmm – That didn’t end too well did it?”

    At first reading, the above is an impressive, even apocalytic statement.

    At a second reading, I fear that one is less impressed,, but I’m willing to be re-impressed. Could you help me in this ambition by telling us how, apart from the percentages you mention, you see the two instances as being similar and to what extent you consider that the 1938 referendum might provide lessons for future developments in the Falklands region?

    Thank you.

    ***********

    La vita è bella, life is good!)

  30. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    14 Mar, 2013 - 4:46 pm

    Mark @ 1:28

    I saw that yesterday and wondered if Francis was just transporting two more pedophiles to another Parish.

    Has anyone interviewed Madame Pinochet (Thatcher) on the Papal selection?

  31. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    14 Mar, 2013 - 4:49 pm

    Habbakuk;

    I fear you are too obsessed with the minutiae. Not that it’s bad, in itself; but it appears like you are trying to trip someone up. I know that’s not your intent, so just a word to the wise.

  32. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    14 Mar, 2013 - 4:50 pm

    @ Jemand :

    “What say you, Habbabkuk? A gentleman is required to make his true intentions known”

    Jemand, you surprise me. Surely you must know that a gentleman would never attempt to raise a lady’s hopes too high?

    I can see that you would never get invited to take afternoon tea at the Duchesse de Guermantes’. :)

  33. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    14 Mar, 2013 - 4:53 pm

    Mark Golding recounts as follows :

    “An interesting piece of 1841 Falklands history is the failure of the British Government to accept the offer of General Rosas to relinquish any Argentine territorial claims in return for relief of debts owed to now defunct Barings Bank in the City of London.

    The British Government chose to ignore the offer.”

    I should jolly well hope so. Sounds like an attempt to extort money with menaces to me.

    *************

    La vita è bella, life is good! (Habbabkuk against muggers)

  34. Habbakuk begins to appreciate US foreign policy:

    “Sounds like an attempt to extort money with menaces to me.”

  35. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    14 Mar, 2013 - 5:10 pm

    Mary writes as follows about me :

    “Somebody who shall be nameless took me to task as is his/her wont:

    “Can you indicate why you think the referendum was a farce?
    Can you assure us that had there not been a referendum, you would not have critised the government for not holding one?
    Thank you”

    Now that somebody seems to agree with Craig”

    You must learn to distinguish, my dear, between an attempt to tease out a contributor’s position on something and a discussion of substance.

    If you would be kind enough to read both Craig’s post and my first post on this thread, and the question to you (above) which you quote, you may notice the followng :

    1/. The question quoted above limits itself to asking you something and does not say whether I think the referendum was a farce or not.

    2/. Craig’s post uses the word “stupid” and not the word “farce”. Furthermore, I indicate that I quibble with the Craig’s description.

    So, Mary, I fear that the conclusion must be that you have again let your urge to best me overcome careful reading and normal critical faculties.

    **********

    La vita è bella, life is good!

  36. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    14 Mar, 2013 - 5:14 pm

    Herbie (16h40) opiçnes as follows :

    “It’s left to whistleblowers and alternative media to break the illusionist’s hold”

    Oh, such modesty, Herbie! Surely you should include yourself and your co-Eminences in that select category?

    ***********

    La vita è bella, life is good! (ex Herbio lux)

  37. BrianFujisan

    14 Mar, 2013 - 5:15 pm

    Exelnt Post Craig Beautiful ideas of your own in there too.

    My boy was to be posted to the Falklands with military,1n 2012, thank goodness there was a change of plan – as i’m certain he was only half joking about Breaking a leg ( Quite by accident )

    Jemand @ 2;23.

    Mary is Quite right to point out Hab’s hypocrisy. As many of us on Crags Blog hold Craig himself as a hero in some ways, not least for being Brave enough to put his own life at risk to expose uk complicity in Torture, but also Craig highlight Government Corruption, (Gould Werritty ) Police Brutality ( Ian Tomlinson Murder, De Menezes murder )…The Growing breaching of international Law charters ( Fire bombing of German cities, Atom bombing Of Japan, Napalm Ect in Vietnam, The list goes on and on, and growing ) The theft of Thousands of Sq miles of Scotland’s Waters.

    But the point is Craig Goes about his work with compassion, as a real humanitarian, as many sentences in this very thread would confirm

    hab on the other hand is here for exactly the opposite reasons, as almost his first words @ 11 ; 08 am – ( and could feel my combative sap starting to rise, ) – Make plain

    One would certainly be forgiven for, (after many months of Em, wondering ) coming to the conclusion that hab is a troll, Since it constantly argues with one and all, and even bullies, at least one lady commenter.

    Why would the people who employ trolls do so, spreading disruption and ill feeling onto this, or any other well meaning Blog, Ultimately its to suppress Knowledge, and free speech, and even some of Craig’s insightful ideas Regarding dark arts, But trolling is the more Evil art.

  38. As you wish, Habbakuk.

    My feeling though is that the illusionist’s hold will be broken, as before, by new forms of communication.

    This is why the illusionist is so desperate to destroy whisteblowing and those who best understand new media.

  39. The referendum was a strange waste of time and the result a foregone conclusion however you can’t blame the islanders for voting the way they have. Kirchner’s rhetoric has hardly been warm and friendly, she’s likend the islanders to squatters, so what kind of future would they face under Argentine rule? Argentina has as far as I can work out not published any guarantees regarding the islanders’ rights or any details of how they would administer the islands. Given the habit of governments world wide to promise one thing then do another would anyone believe them if they did? Acceptance of Argentine rule would really be a step into the unknown which the islanders might find themselves powerless to control.

    Whilst some parts of South America might be doing well Argentina’s economy is in serious difficulties which is possibly why Kirchner is trying to deflect attention to the Falklands. They had an opportunity to cooperate with the UK on fisheries and oil but threw it away.

  40. A result so nearly unanimous strongly suggests that the voters did not believe their votes would be kept secret. (Something that is also a big part of the explanation for the near unanimity of Hitler’s Anschluss referendum.)

  41. For a Falklander, being British overrides everything regardless of how much money Argentina were to spend to make the life of a Falklander better. Let the U.K. spend every cent that’s required to keep the Falklanders British. With time, the U.K. that will abandon the Falklanders and willingly give the island to Argentina. It will be called a great agreement, but everyone will know that keeping the island British is a dead horse. Time makes all problems disappear, one way or another.

  42. ARGO – The Movie

    One of America’s leading experts on covert operations believes that Argo is the propaganda project of an intelligence agency or agencies, and that its purpose is to convince the American people to go along with Israel’s plan to drag America into a war on Iran.

    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/03/13/293328/argo-cias-covert-black-ops/

    This film is NOT propaganda. It will never convince the American people to go along with any plan to smash Iran.

    This film is a cheap shot at altering history that fails on all counts.

    Jimmy Carter, the American President at the time of the hostage crisis, echoed Harris’s viewpoint. While receiving an honorary degree at Queen’s University in Kingston, Ontario, Carter took issue with the film. In his acceptance speech, Carter said, “I saw the movie Argo recently. I was taken aback by its distortion of what happened. Because almost everything that was heroic or courageous or innovative was done by Canada, and not the United States.”

    https://www.cia.gov/about-cia/cia-museum/experience-the-collection/text-version/stories/rescue-of-the-canadian-six-a-classic-case-of-deception.html

    Lastly in true American style the film makes no mention of the Operation Eagle Claw, the attempted rescue operation of the remaining 52 American citizens on April 24, 1980.

    That abortive mission resulted in the deaths of eight American servicemen.

    Their names are sadly absent in the Argo film credits.

    Shame on America.

  43. Very interesting article.

    I’m sure it’s not lost on Craig that the purpose of the jingoistic sabre rattling in BA (and London) is not to resolve the issue either way but to distract those at home from other more pressing issues.

    I contend that too much oil has already been discovered and if extracted and burned it will tip global warming totally over the edge – so however much exists there is irrelevent.

    Luckily, Argentina is too weak militarily to mount an invasion – just as the UK is too weak to mount a reinvasion…

    So nothing will come of this making it a HUGE waste of money and main stream media time.

    I wish the FIs had been relocated to New Zealand or the Hebrides with a nice fat 1 million pound compensation package per family of 4 (or fraction thereof) some time around 1980 and then the Argentineans could have had the godforsaken place.

    This would have saved us millions if not billions not too mention a decade of tory misrule and most of all the lives lost and shattered by a war that competent diplomats and governments should have avoided. Carrington did the right thing by resigning – though I doubt the blame was all his. I still blame that mad woman in blue…

  44. Mark – John Pilger is in agreement.

    ‘Hollywood has returned to its cold war role, led by liberals. Ben Affleck’s Oscar-winning Argo is the first feature film so integrated into the propaganda system that its subliminal warning of Iran’s “threat” is offered as Obama is preparing, yet again, to attack Iran.

    That Affleck’s “true story” of good-guys-vs- bad-Muslims is as much a fabrication as Obama’s justification for his war plans is lost in PR-managed plaudits. As the independent critic Andrew O’Hehir points out, Argo is “a propaganda movie in the truest sense, one that claims to be innocent of all ideology.” That is, it debases the art of film-making to reflect an image of the power it serves.

    The true story is that, for 34 years, the US foreign policy elite have seethed with revenge for the loss of the shah of Iran, their beloved tyrant, and his CIA-designed state of torture. When Iranian students occupied the US embassy in Tehran in 1979, they found a trove of incriminating documents, which revealed that an Israeli spy network was operating inside the US, stealing top scientific and military secrets. Today, the duplicitous Zionist ally — not Iran — is the one and only nuclear threat in the Middle East.

    In 1977, Carl Bernstein, famed for his Watergate reporting, disclosed that more than 400 journalists and executives of mostly liberal US media organizations had worked for the CIA in the past 25 years. They included journalists from the New York Times, Time, and the big TV broadcasters. These days, such a formal nefarious workforce is quite unnecessary.

    In 2010, the New York Times made no secret of its collusion with the White House in censoring the WikiLeaks war logs. The CIA has an “entertainment industry liaison office” that helps producers and directors remake its image from that of a lawless gang that assassinates, overthrows governments and runs drugs. As Obama’s CIA commits multiple murder by drone, Affleck lauds the “clandestine service … that is making sacrifices on behalf of Americans every day … I want to thank them very much.”‘

    /..

    The New Propaganda Is Liberal — The New Slavery Is Digital
    By John Pilger

    March 13, 2013

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article34289.htm

  45. Apparently the result has been verified Wee Dougie Alexander organised the plebiscite and The Returning Officer from Glenrothes Constituency had complete oversight of the entire election.
    Therefore there can be no doubt it was a completely fair election.
    Only one drawback the electoral rolls have gone missing.
    A spokesperson for Douglas Alexander immediately blamed Alex Salmond and the SNP.

  46. “Sounds like an attempt” is temporal Habbakukk and has no meaning.

    What is factual is the Argentinian attempt at negotiation, that means diplomacy, a starting point for arbitration that just might, -just might… have prevented war and the death of my best friend in an imperial adventure favored by tactless politicians and their masters.

  47. I have to say the President would get my vote any day.
    Why can we not politicians that look like that?

  48. Your comment 7:04 completed the circle for me Mary – with thanks.

  49. I remember Diana Gould questioning Thatcher on the Belgrano.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O184yGKknSQ

    [..]
    By 29 April the ships were patrolling the Burdwood Bank, south of the islands. On 30 April the Belgrano was detected by the British nuclear-powered hunter-killer submarine Conqueror. The submarine approached over the following day. On May 1, 1982, Admiral Juan Lombardo ordered all Argentine naval units to seek out the British task force around the Falklands and launch a “massive attack” the following day. The Belgrano, which was outside the exclusion zone to the north, was ordered south. Lombardo’s signal was intercepted by British Intelligence. As a result Mrs Thatcher and her War Cabinet, meeting at Chequers the following day, agreed to a request from Admiral Sir Terence Lewin, the Chief of the Defence Staff, to alter the rules of engagement and allow an attack on the Belgrano outside the exclusion zone.[6] Although the group was outside the British-declared Total Exclusion Zone of 370 km (200 nautical miles) radius from the islands, the British decided that it was a threat. After consultation at Cabinet level, Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher agreed that Commander Chris Wreford-Brown should attack the Belgrano.

    [..]
    The two escort ships were unaware of what was happening to the Belgrano, as they were out of touch with her in the gloom and had not seen the distress rockets or lamp signals.[14] Adding to the confusion, the crew of the Bouchard felt an impact that was possibly the third torpedo striking at the end of its run (an examination of the ship later showed an impact mark consistent with a torpedo). The two ships continued on their course westward and began dropping depth charges. By the time the ships realized that something had happened to the Belgrano, it was already dark and the weather had worsened, scattering the life rafts.[14]

    Argentine and Chilean ships rescued 772 men in all from 3 to 5 May. In total, 323 were killed in the attack: 321 members of the crew and two civilians who were on board at the time.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARA_General_Belgrano

  50. Hello Craig, have you are starting to feel a bit better.

    Excellent balanced piece that, despite supporting the Falklanders right to self-determination, I find it hard to disagree with.

    The question on the potential oil fields is an interesting, and probably pivotal, question. You are correct to state that any reserves are likely to be located in deep water, but that does not immediately mean they will not be highly profitable and sought after.

    One of my friends who works for an Aberdeen based exploration company is currently in Port Stanley at the moment setting up an IT system(he claims to have been tailed by Argentinan Intelligence, not sure if he’s pulling my leg). Yes there is still to be a significant discovering of viable removable reserves, but most industry insiders believe they are there, it’s just a matter of locating them. Most of the big players are standing back at the moment, leaving the donkey work to smaller explorers. If one of these companies does find the proverbial needle in the haystack, you can bet the big players will have drilling rights within weeks and be all over the Falklands like a rash.

  51. Mark Golding 7.13 p.m., your loss of a best friend in the Falklands conflict puts you in an unenviable position to know the real futility of war and the bereavement it can incur. It is not however the government’s view that their lives might have been saved had negotiation been the course of action. So they get some wounded ex-soldier at the war arboretum at Alrewas to say on their behalf how that wounded soldier did not want to think he saw his comrades die in vain by handing it to Argentina. The truth is all dead soldiers die in vain, and if the dead ever come to meet one another face to face in some “Hell” of killers who have killed, it is indeed a “Strange meeting”.

  52. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    14 Mar, 2013 - 7:56 pm

    Sorry, everyone else has managed to keep on-topic, so what are two posts about the film “Argo” doing on this thread?

  53. O/T A video is not up yet but there was an amazing interview with Straw by Alex Thomson on Channel 4 News just now. Thomson repeatedly challenged him on the legality of the Iraq war and about the non existence of WMD. Straw became icier and icier and his left eyelid was visibly drooping. Strange that his partner in war crimes, Bliar, also has a drooping right eyelid.

    Thursday 14 Mar 2013
    Jack Straw ‘edging towards the S word’ on Iraq
    http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/jack-straw-edging-word-iraq/4330

  54. Czesc Habba,

    I know it is difficult, but just ignore the trolls!(And their film reviews! :roll: ) ;-)

  55. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    14 Mar, 2013 - 8:33 pm

    Czesc The CE! You’re right, we shouldn’t let ourselves get drawn into the hijackers’ game.

  56. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    14 Mar, 2013 - 8:47 pm

    On the argument that the referendum was a waste of money and that it’s an even greater waste of money to subsidise the Falkland islanders to the tune of £x thousands or millions a year, I think that it’s worth recalling that far greater sums of money were spent by Labour governments subsidising much less worthy causes with much less ultimate effect. The examples that always spring to my mind are the vast sums spent by Labour govts. in the 1970s on motorcycle workers cooperatives and on car factories in the Midlands and the shipyards on the Clyde (also workers cooperatives in part, I think), but I’m sure there must be more recent examples as well. Just a thought.

  57. From: http://www.channel4.com/news/trolls-internet-beat-battle-boxer-curtis-woodhouseSo how can you tackle a troll?

    Don’t go one-on-one with a troll

    Trolls pray on the vulnerable – people who are not internet savvy, and not confident on social forums. The aim, according to Dr Cassidy, is to extract an emotional response.

    “The first thing is not to give in to the troll. Get up. Go away from your machine and calm down. Then think through what is happening here.

    “It would also be a good idea to tell a confidante or someone who can support you.”

    He described the activities of trolls as trying to engage in “psychological warfare” with other users.

    Don’t feed the troll

    “Trolls tend to have low self-esteem. They have this motivation to get a response from these online communities. They feed off the emotional pay off. Some get a sense of empowerment from creating a response,” says Dr Cassidy.

    Trolling is a curse sweeping the country at the moment – Dr Arthur Cassidy

    The best thing to do therefore? Ignore the advances of a troll and hope that, without the emotional food, the troll will give up.

    Dr Cassidy also advises becoming more confident in your abilities on the internet, and making sure you understand the ways in which social networks work.

    Block the troll

    Social media networks such as Twitter, Facebook and Youtube all have methods by which you can block and report users for abusive content, which can be found here: Facebook, Twitter, Youtube.

    However, users should be aware that trolls can be deceptive and strategic.

    “They can switch identities, change their startegies, change their machinery. Trolls are often treating their trolling like a business.” He also warned that groups of trolls can come together to share strategies.

    Dr Cassidy also said that, until the major social networks come up with a united method of “protecting the user”, trolls will be able to implement their strategies.

    “This is something that needs to be tabled in the House (of Commons)” he said. “Trolling is a curse sweeping the country at the moment”.

    Call in the troll-catchers

    Rather than vigilantism, Dr Cassidy says it is far more advisable to call in the police if you are being targeted with malicious remarks. He added that three or four posts can be enough to cause clinical depression in a victim.

    Director of public prosecutions Kier Starmer has recently updated his guidance on prosecutions for cyber crime. That advice states that “the approach we have taken is to distinguish between two broad categories of case.

    “In the first category are messages or communications that amount to credible threats to the individual or to property, or amount to campaigns of harassment against an individual, or breach court orders. That category of case will be prosecuted robustly.”

    The second category includes behaviour that could be abusive or controversial, but which nevertheless could attract freedom of speech protection. Those cases, Starmer says, there will be a “high threshold of prosecution”.

  58. they might well take your advice…….

  59. Hello Craig

    You make two valid points:

    - that the islanders can have only annoyed the Argentinians with their referendum.
    - that there needs to be a negotiated agreement to resolve the dispute.

    What you don’t say is that before there can be any agreement, each side needs to acknowledge the other’s right to speak. If the Argentine government does react with annoyance to the referendum it will mark a break with its current policy of completely ignoring the islanders and seeking to deny them any opportunity to speak.

    Your suggestion to “smother the Falklands with love” is clearly a sensible one. But the fact is the Argentine government has shown anything but love for the people in the Falklands. It behaves as if they do not exist and gives the impression it wishes that they did not. The reference to Diego Garcia is surely extremely relevant here.

    The referendum was a means for the islanders, with one voice, to shout “WE ARE HERE AND YOU NEED TO LISTEN TO US!”

    I hope Argentina does hear the voice of the Falkland Islanders and starts to listen to their views on their own future since that will be the first step towards the “smothering with love” that you suggest.
    If that happens it will have been triggered not by an act of stupidity but by a democratic referendum expressing the view of the people of the Falklands.

  60. HMS Conqueror fired a Tigerfish (cost £300,000) at ARA General Belgrano – it missed??

    Hence the decision to buy cruise at £1 million each (Huffington Post) to fire at ships.

    Cost of MK 24 Mod 2 Tigerfish development & production about £3.5 billion.

    Source: The Naval Institute Guide to World Naval Weapons Systems, 1997-1998

  61. @Mary
    14 Mar, 2013 – 7:04 pm

    Israel’s intentions were also spelt out in Israel Shahak’s book Open Secrets.
    See: http://www.ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/ir-shahak.html

  62. doug scorgie

    14 Mar, 2013 - 9:17 pm

    Africom Pope
    14 Mar, 2013 – 4:12 pm

    “The vote was akin to asking West Bank [Jewish] settlers if they wanted to remain Israeli.”

    Very perceptive

  63. I don’t believe that anybody disputes that the Falklands should naturally have trade and communications links with the Americas – especially their closest neighbours, Argentina and Chile. The problem is that the Argentinian government is being infantile and irrational and it is difficult to offer rational responses to that. The referendum in the Falklands – pointless, certainly; stupid, as Craig would have it, perhaps – is just a reaction to that childishness.

    I am no historian, but surely (correct me if I’m wrong) there is no nation state or political entity between the North Pole and Tierra del Fuego which is not, in some way, shape or form, a by-product of European imperialism from previous centuries. That’s where these disputes should stay – in previous centuries. There are other border disputes between states on the South American mainland – at least one of which also involves Argentina – and they should be dropped and consigned to the scrap heap of history too. What is the point in continuing with them? Furthermore, there are still other European possessions in the Americas; British, French and Dutch, one of which, if I’m not mistaken is a French island (name escapes me) in the St. Lawrence spitting distance from the Canadian coast. But then the Canadians are a civilised and sensible bunch. The Argentinians are behaving like dicks. So I don’t even agree with Craig that Argentina should “keep trying”; Argentina should grow up.

    By the way, the stance of the U.S.A. is interesting. I can’t exactly remember what La Clinton said when she paid a visit to B.A. as Secretary of State, but I seem to recall that she sought to appeal to the football hooligan element of Argentinian society with regard to the Falklands issue – very clever! She (and now her successor) should be careful what she wishes for – she might get it. She has probably forgotten (if she was ever aware) that large parts of south-western U.S.A. were wrested from Mexico rather more recently than the Falklands were settled by Britain. The Mexicans haven’t. Like the French politician who liked Germany so much that he preferred it when there were two of them, Russia, China and other states could learn to live with their disappointment if the U.S.A. were dismembered and I suspect that anti-Gringo sentiment among the constituency to which Clinton sought to appeal will probably prove to have rather more long-term traction than hatred of an ever-weakening and increasingly less important Britain. Time will tell.

  64. The video is up of Thomson’s penetrating interview with Straw tonight. What a creature.

    Put it on full screen for best effect to see how ragged he is becoming.

    http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/jack-straw-edging-word-iraq/4330

  65. doug scorgie

    14 Mar, 2013 - 9:44 pm

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)
    14 Mar, 2013 – 7:56 pm

    “Sorry, everyone else has managed to keep on-topic, so what are two posts about the film “Argo” doing on this thread?”

    Then you say at 8:47pm:

    “I think that it’s worth recalling that far greater sums of money were spent by Labour governments subsidising much less worthy causes with much less ultimate effect. The examples that always spring to my mind are the vast sums spent by Labour govts. in the 1970s on motorcycle workers cooperatives and on car factories in the Midlands and the shipyards on the Clyde (also workers cooperatives in part, I think), but I’m sure there must be more recent examples as well. Just a thought.”

    Off topic or what?

  66. Usual tosh from The Scourge.

    You selectively quote Habba and omit his first sentence, making his comment entirely on topic.

    “On the argument that the referendum was a waste of money and that it’s an even greater waste of money to subsidise the Falkland islanders to the tune of £x thousands or millions a year,”

    Talk about clogging up the blog with pointless shite.

  67. If Maggie was daft and reckless enough to fight for the Falklands, this Tory government is daft and reckless enough to fight the British people for demanding WAGES and BENEFITS as witnessed by the discussion last night on the Moral Maze. ‘Listen next week, said Burke, you will feel the benefit’. Its sounded to me like Orwell’s description of Down and Out in London etc enforced Sunday tea parties with moral Christian lectures from old ladies.

    Have these people ever had no money and no job that they think they can lecture us on moral inadequacy for being unemployed?
    I was gunning for the Argentinians to give Thatcher some stick during the Falklands War. Couldn’t we get Karimov to stitch up NATO by commandeering its military machine in transit through Uzbekistan? Are there no decent tyrants left anymore?

  68. Good post, Craig. I especially liked the idea of the “attractive young Argentinian agents” engaging in “the darker arts”. Can you send some to Glasgow, please? Maybe an independent Scotland could ‘twin’ with Argentina… :)

  69. A scourge (from Latin excoriare = “to flay” and corium = “skin”) is a whip or lash, especially a multi-thong type used to inflict severe corporal punishment or self-mortification on the back.

    Cease using that nasty name. To the best of my knowledge and in my experience here, Doug Scorgie is a decent person.

  70. Ps. I notice that ‘AAMVN’ claims to still blame that “mad woman in blue”.

    For the Falklands dispute? Really? Ever heard of a bloke called Galtieri?

    There are plenty of things you can blame Thatcher for, the list is almost endless, but she isn’t alone among British politicians of any party for that. Excessive blaming of her over and above others of her ilk or blaming her for the Falklands situation is as irrational as the incessant belly-aching emanating from Buenos Aries.

    Some people have made allusions to the Chagos Islands. Well, that tale is a national disgrace without a doubt. Comparisons with the Falklands can certainly be used to point up hypocrisy in Westminster. But it has no direct bearing on the Falklands question itself which stands or falls on its own merits. Whatever recompense can be made to the Chagos Islanders should be made without delay (not that it will be, poor buggers), but adding Falklanders to the list of people done over by the British government won’t help them a jot.

  71. Mary

    Thanks for the link to Straw. Am I mistaken in thinking that there used to be a time when every dodgy world event had calmed down, that the Sunday newspapers would publish a full analysis of the politics, mistakes and consequences and everyone could move on, even the victims of war. Now there is no chance of closure for anyone. Nobody can ever admit to making mistakes or planning evil. Spineless individuals camouflaged by state lies. Or was I just less cynical before? Rhetorical question.

    Have you put down slug bait round your lettuces yet? Sprinkle a few hasbara pellets round the seedlings now. I know the poison might get into the salad, but you can’t let them get away with chewing through the stalks. Watching them die blowing bubbles isn’t nice either. But you can’t wait up all night to pick them off by hand one by one. Why not get Craig to teach you some of the dark, diplomatic arts? Offer them alternative posts/plants to feed on and while they’re busy munching, knock them into a bucket and put them in a plastic bag?

  72. We have to admire this 88 year old man for standing up for his right to protest and not to be criminalized for wearing an anti war T-shirt and for protesting outside EDO in Brighton. His name and details went on to5 an extremist database.

    Well done Mr Catt. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-21783596

    The BBC omit the history on EDO where the protests were held.

    Regular anti-war protests outside EDO (UK) factory

    On 21 September 2006, protesters blockaded the EDO MBM factory in Brighton for several hours forcing the Managing Director Paul Hills to scale a security fence to enter the premises. He then used an angle grinder or wire cutters to cut a hole in the EDO’s fence to let the employees in to work. The protesters left the scene without being arrested.[30] On 16 September 2006, 100 protesters marched through Brighton to deliver a petition calling for the closure of EDO MBM to Brighton Town Hall.[31] On 23 August 2006 two protesters climbed 40 feet onto the roof of EDO MBM Technology Ltd to unfurl a banner protesting the company’s supply of weapons to Israel used in the Qana bombing in which 16 Lebanese children were killed.[32] On 19 July 2006 protesters staged a ‘Horrors of War’ demonstration outside the Brighton factory recreating scenes of violence and mutilation that result from aerial bombardment.[33] On the morning of 17 July 2006, three activists completely blockaded EDO’s Brighton, United Kingdom subsidiary EDO MBM Technology Ltd in protest at EDO’s supply of weapons technology to the Israeli military being used to attack Gaza and in the then ongoing 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict.[34][35] These are just a few actions in an ongoing campaign of protest, civil disobedience and non-violent direct action against EDO in Brighton that began in 2004 and has come to be known as the Smash EDO campaign.[36] There has been at least one demonstration a week outside the factory since 2004, and the number of protests against the EDO MBM since 2004 now numbers in the hundreds.

    Smash EDO campaign

    There have been numerous protests and direct actions since 2004 voicing the opinion that EDO MBM should close or convert its factory to civilian use. In January 2009, during the Gaza war, activists raided EDO’s factory in Moulsecombe and destroyed equipment. In 2010, a jury found the activists, who invoked the lawful excuse defence, according to which it can be lawful to commit an offence to prevent a more serious crime, not guilty of conspiring to cause criminal damage to the factory. Jonathan Hoffman, vice-chair of the Zionist Federation of Great Britain and Ireland, claimed the judge had “behaved more like the defence counsel than the neutral officer of the court that he was supposed to be. The role of a judge – far from advancing his own political agenda – is to clarify points of law to the lay members of the jury…”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EDO_Corporation

  73. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    14 Mar, 2013 - 10:59 pm

    @ Richard : the French territory in the St Lawrence seaway (Canada) which you mentioned is Saint Pierre et Miquelon.

  74. Yes Mary, how entirely decent to selectively quote someone in order to issue them with a false charge.

    I’m afraid your somewhat dubious character reference is not backed up by the evidence at hand.

  75. Thanks for that, Mary.

    Seems like a very significant interview, when compared with other interviews of members of the Blair regime.

    http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/jack-straw-edging-word-iraq/4330

    I wonder why he’s subjecting himself to such a probing interview. Is it just the ongoing case, or are there fissures developing amongst our former dear leaders.

    It was said of Jack, “Were he to fall under a bus and die, I’d first ask myself, what strategic advantage he found in doing that.”

    Jack has an impressive history in the Labour party, going way way back beyond any other of the main Blair regime, so people quite rightly remarked upon his capacity for survival through so many different leaderships, even up to and including the neocon non-Labour leadership of Tony Blair.

    It really is an amazing achievement.

    But is there now some price to pay.

  76. Thanks for the Straw man interview Mary.

    Great to see it Squirm Makes a change from the usually Polished deceptions of the rest of the war criminals, they ( war criminals ) include the present multi millionaire in No 10

  77. Craig. Your ‘shower fo love’ suffers from one simple yet major flaw. It per-assumes the strategy will work, but there is no sign that it will. What’s likely to happen is the occupiers of the Malvinas will just sponge off the Argentinian state as they already do of Britain.

    The language ‘barrier’ alone – with English being such a strong cultural identity in itself – shows it likely that, like Gibraltar, the Brits there will likely never integrate with Argentina.

    And trying to seduce the occupiers so that Argentinian blood becomes established on the Island (If I read you correctly) is unlikely to succeed as the ‘hybrids’ will simply be brought up in a ‘no Argentine’ kind of way.

    I don’t think the claims by Argentina on the Malvinas are ridiculous.

  78. I see the New Pope and Catholic Church hierarchy played a central role in sustaining the legitimacy of the military Junta.

    How unsurprisingly Disgusting, They just seep out of the Rocks in every fragile place them two ( church / CIA.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/washingtons-pope-who-is-francis-i-cardinal-jorge-mario-bergoglio-and-argentinas-dirty-war/5326675

  79. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    15 Mar, 2013 - 12:19 am

    Brian @ 12:06

    I feel confident ‘Francis’ will be linked to CANAL, and maybe even Romero’s assassination.

  80. I was repelled twice when trying to watch Jack Straw being interviewed. The same thing happens if I try to watch Blair. Each time I am presented with another cardinal image of torment and suffering.

    A picture of so much pain and misery I have to turn away.

    It is aberrant, strange and troubling.

  81. Very sad to see the continued psychological bullying/torture here of a certain poster=Mary.

    Shameful by the perpetrators.

    I guess torture-physical or psychological-seems to have such currency norms in our world.

    Well of course,Straw and Blair are guilyt of monstrous war crimes.Complicit in torture/rendition-and proven to have been.
    *********

    @ Habbabkuk:

    Have you no shame charlatan?You are an sinister embarrassment here.

    You’re like the elderly schoolmaster,long past their prime and imagined authority and all the wiser folks,in your dotage,who pretend to humour you yet as they all know-and are too polite to mention-you’ve lost your marbles years back.

    Sad really.

  82. Really awful when people like Habbakuk move beyond trolling into the dark realms of State sanctioned bullying and psychological torture.

    Let’s not delude ourselves here.

    This is exactly their game.

    Extremely distressing to have to witness and extremely worrying.

    Habbakuk,what you’re doing is extremely sinister.

    I decry it.

  83. @ Mark Golding,

    Yes Mark you’re spot on as usual.

    It’s extremely strange and troubling.

  84. Don’t talk to Habbabkuk. If you must mention it, talk about it, not to it.

    CE, don’t trust Habbabkuk. It sock-puppets and makes racist comments. It is vile. It is attracting you by sharing Polish with you, but it only wishes to use you as a weapon against others. See my two comments starting here:

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/03/a-real-hero/#comment-399372

  85. Clark,

    As a reader and contributor on this blog for 10 years now i echo your sentiments wholeheartedly.

    Habbabkuk is a nasty,sinister and disruptive poster.

  86. That boxer was lucky his twitter troll bottled out, what was he going to do beat him up? Compensation and ruin would follow.

  87. “Smother them with love” – I used to think the US should have done that with Cuba, but, as usual, to many giant egos in the way……

  88. Brilliant stuff, Craig – I will pass this along to a bunch of my Argentinian friends tomorrow. This will form a point of discussion for us for some time, I’ll also ask them to drop a couple of comments here. I hope they stick around too – these comrades of mine should brighten up the place no end ;)

  89. Lwtc247 echoes my thoughts, nothing can change while the Falkland Islanders speak English and I doubt Spanish is even on the school curriculum. The bond between language and cultural identity is very strong and won’t be broken by promoting a Cargo Cult

  90. Great article, especially like the love bombing suggestion, but I do not agree that the UK has got more rights to the Falklands than Argentina, despite being over a 1000 miles away, legal or otherwise.

    Time will tell, this is were I agree, eventually we will not be able to afford the 3ook/head/year and let go, after we exploited the riches that is and those who care for the Falklands wildlife better start campaigning.

  91. “Great article, especially like the love bombing suggestion, but I do not agree that the UK has got more rights to the Falklands than Argentina, despite being over a 1000 miles away, legal or otherwise.”

    I think it would depend on if the Argentinian people are made of sterner stuff than the British, there seem to be a lot of green eyed monsters crying “not fair he gets more than I do” around these days. I don’t know how the poor of Argentina would take to subsidising British citizens.

    “Time will tell, this is were I agree, eventually we will not be able to afford the 3ook/head/year and let go, after we exploited the riches that is and those who care for the Falklands wildlife better start campaigning.”

    Yes time will tell, the Antarctic treaty isn’t exactly carved in stone and anyway America reserves the right to ignore any treaties they deem against their national interests. Another decade or three and those Falklanders could be sitting on some very valuable real estate.

  92. My brother was in the Falklands war and remembers the locals being referred to as ‘Bennies’ until the military top brass got wind of it and banned all use of the term. In a humourous snub troops then called them ‘stills’ – meaning still bennies.

  93. Clark, you need carry no sense of regret. None of us here claim to be saints, but Habbakuk does.

    He is in fact just a barking dog, of whichever gender it matters not.

    Point is he’s a hungry dog and we should all simply starve him. This has been said before by you and many others but it requires consistency. Starve him, as Mary said, leave the RyVita on the shelf, and he’ll stop crapping all over this blog.

    Its awfully simple.

  94. Lombardi is quick off the mark to defend the new pope.

    Vatican denies Dirty War allegations against Pope
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21802684#

    Michel Chossudovsky’s research is usually faultless and he is widely travelled and well informed.

    “Washington’s Pope”? Who is Pope Francis I? Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio and Argentina’s “Dirty War”
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/washingtons-pope-who-is-francis-i-cardinal-jorge-mario-bergoglio-and-argentinas-dirty-war/5326675

  95. doug scorgie

    15 Mar, 2013 - 2:21 pm

    The CE
    14 Mar, 2013 – 9:59 pm
    Usual tosh from The Scourge.

    “You selectively quote Habba and omit his first sentence, making his comment entirely on topic.”

    “On the argument that the referendum was a waste of money and that it’s an even greater waste of money to subsidise the Falkland islanders to the tune of £x thousands or millions a year,”

    It is still off topic with that included because the first part of his opening sentence is merely a ploy that trolls use to appear on- topic by mentioning the on-topic point first and then flying off-topic at a tangent to make a different point.

    That of course may be difficult for a Celtic supporter to understand.

  96. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    15 Mar, 2013 - 2:40 pm

    @ The Scourge :

    No, The CE got it right : my comment was a response to those other contributors who were making a point about the cost of the referendum and of supporting the Falkland islanders. Therefore very much on-topic.

    Stop behaving like a troll.

    *********

    La vita è bella, life is good! (find the real trolls)

  97. Wrong again I’m afraid Douglas!

    My team are a lot worse than Celtic, but the last time I checked this had no bearing on my ability to spot selective quoting.

    If, as you state, it had no effect on the post, why omit it?

  98. Habbakuk:

    Thanks for jogging my memory about the name of the French island in the St. Lawrence. I assume that like other French overseas territories – Martinique, Tahiti etc. – it must be administered as a Departement of France. It is still a French possession one way or the other. Given that the world is full of these anachronisms oddities, enclaves and curios – hangovers from a previous era – and that reasonable people accept them as such and can live with them without getting their knickers in a twist, it does rather beggar belief that Argentina bangs on about the Falklands as if they are the victims of some major injustice. Still worse is the fact that so many people seem to believe that they’ve got a point! Is there any hope for common sense, peace and a spirit of live and let live?

  99. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    15 Mar, 2013 - 3:10 pm

    I assume that trolls are people who wish to divert and distract others away from the subject of the thread and who to this purpose deliberately go off-topic and/or post provocative (and usually impolite) comments.

    Here are the off-topic subjects raised so far :

    * the film ARGO (Mark Golding, Mary)
    * the new Pontiff (Ben Franklin twice, Mark Golding, Herbie)
    * Jack Straw (Brian Fujisan, Mary twice)
    * John Pilger / USA (Mary)
    * Israel (Tony)
    * 88 year old Mr Catt (Mary)
    * defending The Scourge (Mary)
    * mixed ramblings (Guano)
    * trolls (Clark, Villager,Jives 4 times, Mary)
    * attacks on Habbabkuk (Mary, Brian Fujisan).

    Who are then the real trolls?

    **********

    La vita è bella, life is good! (by their deeds shall ye know them)

  100. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    15 Mar, 2013 - 3:18 pm

    Hi Richard,

    Saint Pierre et Miquelon isn’t a département d’outre mer (DOM) but a COM (Collectivité d’outre mer). French Wiki will explain the difference if you’re interested (not that it has any bearing on the good points you make).

    Salut!

  101. True to previous form, there was a little lull and then he/she/it is back. Good at counting too. Seems to think that he/she/it is the appointed monitor for the integrity of the blog. Has Craig given him/her/it the job?

    Pathetic stuff. Note that we are never given any facts, links, info, support, a feeling of camaraderie or communality – exactly zilch. Nothing in fact just the carping and darts. Oh sorry. We have been reminded of the name of an island in the St Lawrence river!

  102. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    15 Mar, 2013 - 3:22 pm

    Sorry, an off-topic from Mary has just popped up on the screen (on the new Pontiff), so she should be added to the above list together with Ben Franklin, Mark Golding and Herbie).

    *********

    La vita è bella, life is good! (why am I not surprised..)

  103. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    15 Mar, 2013 - 3:26 pm

    “Seems to think that he/she/it is the appointed monitor for the integrity of the blog” (Mary, just now) :

    Not at all, Mary. It must have been all that talk about trolls which got me thinking who the real trolls might be.

    **********

    La vita è bella, kife is good! (by their deeds…oh sorry, already said that)

  104. and it loves to have the last word, as if to make out to those reading this blog, that it is the definitive axle on Craig Murray’s cart.

  105. Keith Crosby

    15 Mar, 2013 - 8:42 pm

    If only the Falkland Islanders are entitled to vote, they can’t be my country-people. A change in the constitutional status of my country isn’t a parochial matter like bin collections, it’s something that affects everyone in that country. By holding a vote on the Islands’ constitutional arrangements they have defined the jusrisdiction.

    How did they get that many sheep to vote anyway?

  106. My eldest uncle – Archibald Russell, originally from Stranraer in Scotland – emigrated to Argentina in the late 1920s. He died in Buenos Aires of old age during the war over the Falklands (it must have been very stressful for an old UK citizen in Buenos Aires at that time). At the time that he had emigrated back in the 20s, Argentina was regarded as a country that had a very bright future indeed. But, it was not to be. Instead of this expected prosperity, all that Argentina would experience, as a result of appalling government, in the next 80 or so years was regular economic collapses, almost continuous inflation, a series of vicious dictators & juntas (one after the other), and the worst death squads in Latin America. It seems to me that it would be very wrong to hand the Falkland Islands over to a country with the appalling record of governance and corruption that Argentina has had until very recently.

  107. Keith Crosby

    15 Mar, 2013 - 9:29 pm

    @ Roderick Russell

    “It seems to me that it would be very wrong to hand the Falkland Islands over to a country with the appalling record of governance and corruption that Argentina has had until very recently.”

    It seems to me that it would be very wrong to hand the Falkland Islands over to a country with the appalling record of governance and corruption that Britain has always had.

    ;O)

  108. @ Keith Crosby
    Yes, I agree with you that Britain’s economic performance has been deplorable since ww2 – largely as a result of bad, perhaps weak, government that has spent its time toadying to the country’s power-elites rather than looking after the interests of the British people. And I personally have experience of Britain’s lack of real commitment to human rights, rule of law, and democracy . Yet, bad though these things are in the UK, they have been many times worse in the Argentine.

  109. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    15 Mar, 2013 - 10:05 pm

    @ Roderick Russell

    And who is to say that the current period of democracy in Argentina will last? There have been many false dawns in Argentina and in the whole of Latin America for that matter.

  110. Craig,

    it is not so obvious whether the Bennies of Falkland are stupid or not so stupid after all. My guess is that they expect (or have been already promised) to get even more money from their “mother country” after having voted the right way. We will find out soon. Argentinian governement is not so stupid to give them anything as it would make it somewhat unpopular in the eyes of their not so well off citizens.

  111. “And who is to say that the current period of democracy in Argentina will last? ”

    A fortnight ago…
    Herbie wrote(20h18)
    Can you assure us that the same thing isn’t happening in the US/UK now too..

    Hababbkuk replied:
    I can’t, of course, but I must be honest and say that I don’t think it’d matter very much, provided that the modern Augustus Imperator would not be George Galloway and that you and the other [regular commenters] would be the first to be fed to the lions.

  112. halibabacus,

    I guess that you must have recently got some shekels from the Holy land as you seem to be in a state of delirium. Or do the local “residents” screw your ass so much nowadays? Take it easy old boy as a stroke can visit your brain any time. It will be sooner rather than later, I guess, unless you stop over-exerting your “intelectual firepower”. It would be a great pitty if we should thus loose our beloved buffoon so soon. No doubt this great loss would make life much less beautiful for all of us. So take care of yourself hahababa to reduce the chance of living “la vita in culo”, if you know what I mean.

  113. what pointless drivel karel, doesnt make it any better wrote to hbk

  114. Keith Crosby

    16 Mar, 2013 - 8:04 am

    @ Roderick

    Yes, I agree with you that Britain’s economic performance has been deplorable since ww2 – largely as a result of bad, perhaps weak, government that has spent its time toadying to the country’s power-elites rather than looking after the interests of the British people. And I personally have experience of Britain’s lack of real commitment to human rights, rule of law, and democracy. Yet, bad though these things are in the UK, they have been many times worse in the Argentine.

    Tell that to the Chagos Islanders, Bobby Sands, all those butchered iraqis and Afghans, Liddle Towers, Stefan Kiszko, J.C. De Menezes etc, etc, etc. The British state commits most of its atrocities outside the UK whereas the Argentine boss class does most of its crimes within the political boudaries of Argentina. Peron and Videla etc didn’t butcher Kenyans, Indians, Irish, Malayans etc did they?

  115. Keith Crosby

    16 Mar, 2013 - 8:07 am

    @ Rodders Oh and the British economy actually did rather well 1945-1970-ish, its “sick man” status was bogus. When invidious comparisons with the growth rates of West Germany France and Italy etc were being made they were going through industrial revolutions, something that Britain did 150 years earlier. Since then, the working class has been recolonised and turned into those Kenyans, Irish, Malayans etc I mentioned earlier.

  116. Crab,

    as you have no sense humour do not assume that others are like you

  117. A rival and defeated colonial occupier does not have the claims of an indigenous population.

    Nor does a victorious one. The Argentine government’s claim during the short period when it was holding the islands in 1982 was as good as Britain’s now.

    Both sides breached UNSCR 502. Only Britain breached UNSCR 505. Military force is what counts. Juicy contracts too.

    The Falklands are not really very important to the Argentine government. And in any case, by your own reasoning, a reasonable policy on their part is just to wait. Cheaper, too.

    But western economic collapse will completely outshadow the slow decline in British military capability.

  118. doug scorgie

    16 Mar, 2013 - 5:11 pm

    Roderick Russell
    15 Mar, 2013 – 9:26 pm

    “Argentina was regarded as a country that had a very bright future indeed. But, it was not to be. Instead of this expected prosperity, all that Argentina would experience, as a result of appalling government, in the next 80 or so years was regular economic collapses, almost continuous inflation, a series of vicious dictators & juntas (one after the other), and the worst death squads in Latin America.”

    Yes and all this terror supported throughout by the USA and Wall Street

  119. Maybe not So Great at Counting Mary…Missed my comment on new pope @ 15th march 12 ; 6 pm, But it’s a double error…Because it’s not really an ot comment.

  120. ‘Given that the world is full of these anachronisms oddities, enclaves and curios – hangovers from a previous era – and that reasonable people accept them as such and can live with them without getting their knickers in a twist, it does rather beggar belief that Argentina bangs on about the Falklands as if they are the victims of some major injustice. Still worse is the fact that so many people seem to believe that they’ve got a point!’

    Well put, Richard. That the Falklands ‘anachronism’ remains an ongoing dispute, whereas the relationship between Canada and Saint Pierre et Miquelon is not, says a lot about the political maturity of Canada and Argentina respectively. It also explains why Craig’s preferred ‘solution’, of Argentina smothering the recalcitrant Falklanders with love, and winning their ‘hearts and minds’, is dead in the water.

  121. OldMark:

    Thanks, glad you liked it. If my scribblings elicited any response at all I expected it to be from the usual assorted bunch of Brit-haters, foreign and domestic, foaming at the mouth, but it’s always nice to get a pat on the back. Sorry about the absence of a comma between “anachronisms” and “oddities” though, but I did rather dash it off.

  122. Nice article and an eye opener :)
    Many thanks Craig.

  123. But what does Argentina want with the Falklands ? They are around 300 miles away from it, so hardly on their doorstep. UK obviously thinks they are strategically or economically important to justify the continued defence expense. What are we not being told here ?

  124. NEVER GIVE UP!

    21 Mar, 2013 - 12:50 pm

    300 miles in Argentina is regarded as a relatively short distance, especially in southern Patagonia.

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