Yes Scotland Meeting Edinburgh

by craig on May 22, 2013 4:52 pm in Uncategorized

Am back in Edinburgh and speaking at a Yes Scotland meeting on Friday 24 May at the Columcille Centre, 2 Newbattle Terrace, Edinburgh at 7pm.

This is my first entry as a speaker into the referendum campaign, and I am excited – and nervous – about it. I have of course given quite literally hundreds of speeches, on every continent, in the last nine years. I have spoken before official committees of the Council of Europe, European Parliament, Arab League, UK Parliament and Scottish Parliament. I have spoken at a great many of the world’s most prestigious universities. I have spoken to crowds in the tens of thousands.

That has been almost all on the subject of universal human rights, international legality and peace, about which I am so passionate I abandoned a well-paid career to serve those causes. At the Columcille Centre on Friday my audience will not be remotely the largest, or most intimidating, or most potentially hostile, I have ever faced. But I will be speaking in the cause of the freedom of my own nation. That brings a lump to my throat and butterflies to my stomach. And so it damn well ought.

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115 Comments

  1. Jonangus Mackay

    22 May, 2013 - 5:10 pm

    OT

    Straw: the even bigger liar. It’s even worse than was thought: Blatcherite backup for depraved CIA campaign of global kidnap & torture http://is.gd/z6ptTL

  2. It’ll go great – this is our time.

  3. All that experiencee won’t let you down, Craig. It’ll go well!

  4. I am sorry that I can not be there. It is a long swim from Western Isles!

  5. Would love to have been there … am sure that it will go really well.

    Understand your sentiments … it’s a bit like fighting for a family, isn’t it?

  6. Sorry for the Off-topic, and sorry that this is a bit old, but I thought that some of my old sparring partners here would like to see this video of a guy explaining how population growth may not be the catastrophe that many would love it to be, nor the fact of many people emerging in the world need lead to poverty for all when it could lead to better lives for all. In short, the increase in wealth is not a zero-sum game. We need not all grow wealthier by making everyone else poorer.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTznEIZRkLg

  7. Dick the Prick

    22 May, 2013 - 6:48 pm

    Good luck dude. As a Tory I should want a free Scotland and I know it won’t make a damn bit of difference to a Yorkshireman, but my heart remembers Vatersay and the Outer Hebrides. Defo wish I was there – it can be won!

  8. All the best, Craig. But it will be tough because so much is riding on this. I’ve also been reading the excellent writings from Scottish Left Review and the Jimmy Reid foundation – cannot recommend enough. I’m left feeling that what is hanging on Scottish independence is not simply the fate of 5 million people, but of the whole European continent. With almost every country preaching the neo-con bullshit hymn and the salvation appearing a worrying trend further towards an insane fascist right (as Craig so well described yesterday) – one little country turning its back on the madness could signal hope to the downtrodden of all lands.
    Sorry if that ups the pressure on you even more, Craig!

  9. ‘Hals und Beinbruch’ as they say, shall be thinking of you in your most strident moment.

    Speak up for the common man, speak up for what should be each and every citizens rights and responsibilities to their newborn nation and embrace Independence like a blustery day, with cautious optimism.

    Good luck with the speech, make it a funny one, there is enough material in Scotland’s past to raise a cackle or two.

    Apparently they make a brown potent elixir up there, which gives one confidence enough to speak to the Oxford Union…. it surely will ease your thoughts in front of the Edinburgh crowd.

    Sealbh math dhuit/dhuibh!

  10. I should be able to make it along.

    A couple of the other speakers should be interesting…

    Confirmed speakers include:

    Craig Murray, (Former Ambassador and Rector of Dundee University)
    Jim Eadie MSP (Scottish National Party)
    Margo MacDonald MSP (Independent)
    Alison Johnstone MSP (Scottish Green Party)
    Colin Fox (SSP National Spokesperson)
    Celia Fitzgerald (Labour for Independence)
    Tommy Shepherd (Former Assistant General Secretary of the Scottish Labour Party)

    http://www.yesscotland.net/neilhay/yes_edinburgh_southern_launch_night

  11. I would like ‘The Union’ to be degrandurised, revealed as an abused relic, so that Scotland can retire it.
    For real economic and social links within the British.. or Northerly(?) Isles to be refreshed.

    A challenge is convincing that Scotland can cut off westminster and stand on its own against the competition and disruption which will follow, while England, Wales and NI are thrown into -political crisis, and perhaps global influences will meddle with the situation.

  12. This might be the first battle in a long campaign. Even if Scotland is hoodwinked and scaremongered into voting ‘no’ there will be other chances in the future. Once they have admitted the possibility people will get used to the idea and independence will come. None of the good things about the Union will change I’m sure.

  13. good luck and may the referendum be succesful

  14. Go for it Craig.
    How do folk want to be remembered decades from now. when the history of Scottish Independence is being taught in Scottish schools?

    How did you vote dad/mum.grandad/granny?

  15. O/T but of interest here generally. I appreciate there are reasons to be cautious about Avaaz, but their current campaign is, in my view, important. Obama is apparently feeling pressure to do a speech on Guantanamo, so now would be a good time to call (again) for its closure.

    Optimistic? Maybe, but worth a go: http://www.avaaz.org/en/obama_shut_down_gitmo_4/

  16. So you’ll be giving the West of Pictland back to the Welsh Druids then ?

    :P

  17. Craig, the only hope for the bulk of England is that Scotland does indeed leave the Union and by that act will coerce the various regions of England to seek new pastures be it federal or otherwise. The Westminster power-base has imploded and the political model is well overdue getting kicked out and replaced with a democracy to suit the whole country not just the over-heated south east.

    As, you say and no doubt feel, this is a momentous time for Scotland, so be glad to make your contribution count.

  18. Good luck, Craig – wish I could be there. Venceremos!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFHy0jWfv3s

  19. O/T but here is an interesting link regarding CIA rendition flights: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/interactive/2013/may/22/rendition-flights-cia-mapped

  20. Good luck Craig.

    Remember…before such a speech 2 malts good,3 malts potentially problematic :.)

  21. Bet you’ll be surprised who you move with your words. The whole world is going to see what happens when a people leave a criminal state – maybe even some of the different peoples whose livelihoods get strip-mined to pay for bank bonds and prisons and wars: Cajuns and Gullahs and first nations, and New Englanders and Cascadians and crackers, and Eastern-Seaboard internationalists and Tidewater troglodytes. When they hear you, they might ask themselves, What would we do if we weren’t subject to the USA?

  22. Just saw the news regarding the hacking of the soldier in London. One of yours who did the hacking, Craig? I’m wondering if we’ll have one less commenter here.

  23. I was quite shocked on a recent visit to Scotland how nobody seemed to want independence. It was like they couldn’t be bothered with it. A country or a nation? Nobody seemed to have any facts. Nobody knew the M25 was paid for with Scottish oil etc etc. I was worried that all the propaganda had pushed them away from even thinking about it and that the true economic facts unknown. What an opportunity they will have, an opportunity that people in other countries die for, yet how many will be taking it?

  24. Alan Campbell

    22 May, 2013 - 11:32 pm

    Poor Craig – the electoral kiss of death.

  25. Alan Campbell

    Look up at comment no.1 about UK rendition
    and then look down
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/european-union-directly-funds-al-qaeda-looting-of-syrian-oil/5335761
    before deciding where the electoral kisses of death come from, i.e. Craig’s former employers.

  26. Good luck Craig, I’m sure you won’t need it.

  27. BrianFujisan

    23 May, 2013 - 2:02 am

    Good luck Craig.. As Jives says just a couple for the nerves.

    Ray,
    i’m not sure that a visit to Scotland is cause to assume we are not interested, i find most people ( even though they are Missled almost daily by MSM ) are warming to the idea of independence.

    AS A PARENT OF A SERVING SOLDIER with a young family, i find it
    A bit worrying, the news about that soldier murdered in such a way,(WTF)

    But i knew that that T word would immediately be getting tossed around by the criminals in suits – who armed the horrors in Libya, and now Syria
    They have no human morals nor shame, i bet some of them have to fight the Glee from showing on their Pompous face when attacks like that on the soldier occurs, I suspect we shall all pay for it though ( not more so than the soldiers family ) But as the Police state rears its ugly head ever Higher

    Jon
    Avazz seem ok on the whole, that petiton signed and wow its doing well Almost half way to the 500,000. A large number of Brazilian’s Signing, as as i watched for a few moments. Obampot Pledged to close Guantanamo years ago of couse. i wonder whatever happened to the campaign to have the evil Shit’s nobel prize revoked

  28. Best of luck mate..will someone be filming it and if so can you publish it here ? Don’t forget to wear your kilt.

  29. April Showers

    23 May, 2013 - 7:35 am

    Catalonia wants independence too.

    Catalonia is Not Spain – and it is Not Scotland Either
    Spain’s richest region deserves independence – and comparisons between Glasgow and Barcelona do no-one any favours

    By Núria Biosca and Cristina Cots April 25, 2013 http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/461356/20130425/barcelona-scotland-glasgow-catalonia-independence.htm

  30. “Nobody knew the M25 was paid for with Scottish oil ”

    Right, because it’s a Well Known Fact that Scottish oil is the government’s sole source of income and that nobody south of the border ever pays any taxes.

    I suppose you think Scottish oil paid for the Channel Tunnel as well.

  31. If Scotland goes what will put the Great in Great Britain

    Sad, but the Union could enhance all concerned but sadly its not to be at present.

    Good luck Craig. Great Scotland!

  32. BrianFujisan

    23 May, 2013 - 8:53 am

    Anyone whom attempts to equate Barcelona to Glasgow is a Numpty… But we do try.. Those of us close to nature Do not regard Glasgow as the richest region…And as For the wee Street Foot ball wizards..yip we had

  33. Brianfujisan

    ‘The terrorists in suits’. Like an unsolved rubrick cube, the MSM propaganda has coloured our own UK terrorism as back-page sport and religion as state pomp. How could these Muslims be so off-message? So radicalised. So unrepresentative. So unreligious. As to get worked up about what the UK does abroad in Muslim countries. When everybody knows all we do is just sport and pomp, including the snorty stompy Dame Neville-Jones who embodies the MSM myth that UK foreign policy is entirely innocent?

  34. Guano…I hate what my boy does in his chosen profession.. And the family fotos Shock me even more,,Toddlers in army garb….But i have sat and listened to him .i know he is NOT a killer of poeple…..But the Cnts that send them… Guano am weary with this..Sorry

  35. BrianFujisan
    ‘Those of us close to nature Do not regard Glasgow as the richest region’

    I thought there was a rich diversity of microbes at least.
    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/legionnaires-outbreak-ten-new-cases-1128665

  36. BrianFujisan

    Sorry to be offensive. The military is a very honourable profession. As usual it was the BBC getting up my nose by wheeling out a list of people to condemn this attack from their very high horses and down their very long noses. Allah is in charge of all things, including death and life.

  37. Best of luck. The dribbling skinny teetotaller in the front row wearing a union jack will be Fred. Give him my regards…

  38. Good luck with your speech, Craig. I am now a supporter of total independence for Scotland. Among other indications, the news of a soldier being hacked to death by Muslims in broad daylight in London is a sign that the UK has now turned to shit, especially England, and doomed to a violent demise with civil conflict. Only independence will save Scotland from flushing down the toilet.

    As the UK converts to Islam, as it surely is and whether people like it or not, violent incidents like this will increase and eventually lead to a catastrophic major conflict, if not civil war. No doubt people will pour scorn on this prediction as if the UK never saw Catholic vs Protestant conflict and current Christian vs Muslim conflicts in other countries are too far away to be relevant. The simple fact is that no country has ever peacefully transformed to Islam and the UK will be no different.

    I wonder what excuses apologists of Islam will make for this incident. And do they think that British soldiers will not react badly?

    Out with the old, In with the new
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10062745/Christianity-declining-50pc-faster-than-thought-as-one-in-10-under-25s-is-a-Muslim.html

    Vote YES for an Independent Scotland

  39. @Jemand: “The simple fact is that no country has ever peacefully transformed to Islam and the UK will be no different. ”

    Indonesia.

  40. Having some difficulty understanding why those who promote the magical virtues of competition are so anxious to avoid any between Scotland and The Rest. Scottish independence hould be right up their street. What the SNP is proposing is effectively a management buyout, enterprise rewarded, remaining shareholders have a bigger stake. Add to which, UKGov.plc becomes leaner and fitter, and as it has never, never, oh no, been dependent on oilfields north of Berwick, it will be free to pump up a property bubble and restore its status as central to the bank fraud and tax evasion universe.

    Pink gins all round!

  41. Jemnd..They are reacting badly..on my facebook its so ugly…i keep telling you all how somtimes alone one feels …Bit Like Tony on his bad day.

  42. I am wondering what moves young Afro-Caribbeans to convert to Islam, when their grandparents (post Windrush) were pretty devout Christians. Could it be a sense of exclusion and alienation? Of belonging to no effective community? Or is it just the cool thing to do these days? I really would like to know.

  43. Craig; I’m sure all will go well.

    Having attended a local YES meeting it was well attended and they even had to bring in more chairs which I believe is a common occurrence at these meetings as the YES campaign has a great if not vocal following.

    I look forward to seeing your speech on this website or YouTube; it’s a shame I will not be there.

    Scotland has the chance to create a new form of democracy based on sound Scottish principles, Scandinavian type services and a fairer society for all Scots whether born or settled here.

    The machinations of the BBC and the MSM are being circumvented by blogs, websites and Bitter together and UK Governments own stupidity in always playing the “Too Wee, Too Small and Too stupid card.

    Scotland can vote YES for a better society.

  44. @Tom Kennedy – “Indonesia”

    Bullshit. Indonesia is my backyard. Violence against non-Muslims is not some modern phenomenon in the wake of 20th century American imperialism. It’s a standard practice.

    Indonesia’s peaceful ongoing transformation -
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Indonesian_beheadings_of_Christian_girls

  45. Jemand: you said, as a “fact” that “no country has ever peacefully transformed to Islam” and yet the evidence is that that is exactly what happened in Indonesia, by far the largest Muslim country in the world. Islam was spread by traders, not by an invading army.

    Sorry, but your bias is showing.

  46. Jemand
    ‘The simple fact is that no country has ever peacefully transformed to Islam and the UK will be no different.’

    You talk as if Islam is new to the UK. The UK powers that be who well understood the truth of Islam as early as the 15th Century, because all knowledge was being transferred from Islam to Europe at that time, savagely repressed that truth.

    It is not a violent proposition to say that there is no God other than God, and that Muhammad SAW is the messenger of God for our time. The violence is perpetrated by the successors to those powers that be, six centuries later, droning individuals, igniting sectarian divisions, carpet bombing the innocent instead of persecuting individual believers as they first did in order to contain the true message of Islam.

    I do not know ethnic origin of those who killed a soldier yesterday. But I believe that the cultural origin in the voice recordings was Caribbean African, possibly spoken by someone of a different ethnic origin . This means that the violence of the UK’s colonial past is, like Northern Ireland, never going to be laid to rest through social tweaking. It needs to be openly recognised that the Slave Trade and the British Raj in India were a joint Zionist European exercise in the equivalent of droning, dividing and carpet bombing, of then.

    The motive was wealth and the destruction of Islam. Don’t try to lay the blame for yesterday’s violence at the door of the Islam, however much you do not like Islam. You have more brain.

  47. Tom Kennedy, am I really biased? Or am I aware of the truth regarding the intrinsically violent nature of Islam?

    The fact is Indonesia didn’t even exist before the Dutch colonised the archipelago in the 17thC and independence was won in 1945. The spread of Islam, of course, began long before the arrival of the Dutch but was facilitated by their aggregation of the archipelago as a contiguous political entity. You might naively think that Muslim traders arrived and were cheerfully received by non-Muslims as a new flavour of chewing-gum only to curiously (without any explanation) dominate centuries later as the most favoured religion, but I know differently.

    Indonesia, primer - 
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Indonesia

    “.. the process of Islamisation .. was, and remains to this day, a continuous process in Indonesia.”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spread_of_Islam_in_Indonesia

    Peaceful Islam in Indonesia -
    http://www.smh.com.au/world/indonesia-shrugs-at-rising-religious-violence-report-20130228-2f7pp.html

  48. OT
    OT

    From a Window in Nicosia.

    As I look out across the hills,
    The lovely scenery often stills
    My thoughts when they should chance to roam
    across the seas back to my home.

    The houses white and trees so green,
    Make such a picture that once seen,
    The darkest clouds are chased away
    And skys are blue instead of grey.

    The hours pass, the colours change,
    And as the sun descends, the range
    takes on a lovely purple hue,
    Once more I say “Can I be blue”

    When darkness falls I cannot see
    The scene which was so grand to me,
    I worry not but go to sleep,
    Knowing well that it will keep.

    I wake, “tis the dawn where can I be?
    Ah. Now it all comes back to me,
    I see those hills and know that I`ll
    be happy whilst on Cyprus Isle.

    PS. I wrote the above whilst looking from my billet window on Cyprus, last September.
    Hope you like It.

    Arthur. (Died, Libya, 2nd World war.)

  49. April Showers

    23 May, 2013 - 1:10 pm

    The EDL mob are spitting out the words ‘This is policitical Islam’. Their website is horrible. Mosques in the area were attacked last night.

    http://englishdefenceleague.org/edl-news

  50. technicolour

    23 May, 2013 - 1:19 pm

    Jemand: “the news of a soldier being hacked to death by Muslims in broad daylight in London is a sign that the UK has now turned to shit”

    It will have ‘turned to shit’ when it becomes broadly acceptable to make cheap political capital out of a tragedy.

    This from a friend:

    “Here’s a list of violent killings, all on British streets, in the past 13 years. They include: being punched to death, stabbed to death, thrown down stairs, run over by a car, set alight in a car, throat slashed, stamped to death, hit repeatedly with a chair leg, and – in one particularly brutal case – being chased and murdered by an axe to the head (which remained embedded in the head when the body was found). These attacks were fully intended to cause others to feel something akin to terror. But as the victims were all of African, Asian, Arab or Caribbean descent, they aren’t terrorist attacks, there won’t ever be an emergency Cobra meeting, and white people won’t ever have to feel guilty for the actions of their lunatic and murderous compatriots” http://www.irr.org.uk/news/deaths-with-a-known-or-suspected-racial-element-2000-onwards/
    Deaths with a (known or suspected) racial element 2000 onwards | Institute of Race Relations
    http://www.irr.org.uk

  51. Jemand
    ‘Or am I aware of the truth regarding the intrinsically violent nature of Islam?’

    Yes, a decade and a half of UK violence on the Muslims was just Sport. The propaganda no more than football match cheering.

  52. Guano,

    No ‘old’ religion is “new” to the UK, however crossing social-political milestones can be new and, I’m sure you will be pleased to know, Islam is breaking “new” ground in terms of demographics and political influence.

    My prediction is that Islam will continue its current trajectory of expansion in the UK until it meets resistance. At some point, the establishment will implement obstructions and deploy resources to defend against encroachment into powerful institutions, including the police, military and intelligent services. The UK head of state, HM Liz II, is also head of the Church of England, so British Muslims are ruled by a Christian – they cannot be happy or indifferent to this fact. The establishment are not going to agreeably entertain any variation to this arrangement and a majority Muslim electorate will not tolerate resistance to its democratic demands for change. I think you can look forward to a big rise in popular republicanism over the next few decades. Perhaps Charles or William will be the last British monarch.

  53. I am originally from Central Asia. Islam came to Central Asia peacefully. People accepted Islam because of it’s ideas of fairness and calls for honesty and respect. The soviets though had given image to the spread of Islam as a violent and war based empire. I am not talking about military movement of Babur to India which was in the 15th century and purely was based on moving home since he was supressed at home by rivals. I am talking about 8th century, when for short period of time entire region became muslim and by the 9-10th century it was a centre of Islamic knowledge and culture.
    To blame Islam for atrocities committed by lunatics would be an idiotic action. It is the same as to blame Christianity for actions of Hitler, since he always wore a cross and claimed to be true Christian.

  54. My prediction is that Islam will continue its current trajectory of expansion…etc, etc.

    No, that’s Jean-Marie le Pen’s prediction. And probably Pat Buchanan’s. Certainly Nigel Farrage’s and Nick Griffin’s.* Credit where credit is due, eh?

    Though given that the most marginalised are the readiest converts, and that the current regime government is alienating and marginalising as many of our citizens as possible, I am sure that the fascists have a point.

    *Lovable Christian Nick off on one here-
    http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/30/bnp-leader-nick-griffin-sell-your-scrap-metal-and-eat-roadkill-3375395/

  55. From Guano, ‘this means that the violence of the UK’s colonial past is, like Northern Ireland, never going to be laid to rest through social tweaking. It needs to be openly recognised that the Slave Trade and the British Raj in India were a joint Zionist European exercise in the equivalent of droning, dividing and carpet bombing, of then.’

    Good lord almighty, even when discussing the role of Islam in the UK an individual on this blog manages to drag zionism into the debate. It would be annoying if it was not so tragic. Also you are wrong about Northern Ireland. The role which colonialism played in the origins of that conflict is now of little consequence north or south of the border. What is the major dividing issue is religion mixed with social class. So ‘social tweaking’ is exactly what is needed in Northern Ireland.

    The brutal murder in Woolwich yesterday was just that, murder. Cetain people on this thread will seek to justify those evil actions becuase of the UK’s supposed evil actions abroad. That is wrong. What is needed is for people to come together to decry the actions of radicals, be them Muslim or the downtrodden working class racists of the EDL.

    And no I am not in the paid employment of the American, British or Israeli governments. I have not been ordered to derail the thread, I am expressing my opinion so do not resort to the usual barrage of abuse directed at anyone who does not agree with the prevailing sentiment of this blog.

  56. technicolour

    23 May, 2013 - 2:05 pm

    “violent incidents like this will increase and eventually lead to a catastrophic major conflict, if not civil war…”

    Who were the gangs in balaclavas fighting the police on the streets of Woolwich? Well?

    “..a minuscule percentage of terrorist attacks in Europe were committed by Muslims. In 2009 and 2010, there were a grand total of 543 terrorist attacks, of which only 4 were committed by Muslims. This means that only 0.7% of terrorist attacks–again, less than 1%–were committed by Muslims.

    Meanwhile, in that same time frame, separatist groups in Europe committed 397 terrorist attacks, or 73% of terrorist attacks overall. In other words, separatist groups committed 99.2 times (almost 100 times) more terrorist attacks than Muslims.”

    http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/11/updated-europol-data-less-than-1-of-terrorist-attacks-by-muslims/

  57. Technicolour, once again you are trying to disconnect violence from political evolution. Let me ask you this – would the Nazis, Bolsheviks or Mao’s communists have ‘achieved’ what they did without violence? 

    The violence you describe is of your common unfriendly neighbourhood psychopath and has little or no political consequence and therefore relevance here. The murder of this soldier is the normal behaviour of a minority of young males who are readily available and respondent to programming for politically motivated violence. They are autonomous drones, filled with ideas (in this case, the teachings of the Qurran interpreted by Muslim intellectuals for contemporary relevance) and set loose to do the hard work that must be done to ensure a gloriously divine victory. In the old days, they would have been British soldiers sent off to do the good work of British Imperialism. And in older days, they were the savages that invaded villages to spread the realm of warlords. Oh, how people forget our heritage.

    To deny the fact that Islam is inherently violent is like denying that young males are inherently predisposed to carry out that violence. Totally foolish.

  58. Andrew K

    No it was not murder. Or if it was, then droning is murder, false-flag bombs are murder, carpet bombing innocent people is murder.

    You declared war on us. But it was in your minds a one-way war in which only innocent Muslims got killed. Your war. Your victim. Your tombstone in St Paul’s Cathedral to commemorate the your own violence and aggression.

  59. doug scorgie

    23 May, 2013 - 2:44 pm

    Jon Pelfrey
    22 May, 2013 – 10:59 pm

    “Just saw the news regarding the hacking of the soldier in London. One of yours who did the hacking, Craig? I’m wondering if we’ll have one less commenter here.”

    An explanation for this comment would be in order don’t you think?

  60. Jemand

    The consensus of informed academic opinion – based on evidence and not malicious prejudice – is that the Islamic Caliphate was established in a relatively non-violent manner. If that seems to go against your prejudice,feel free to consult the Islamic departments of such august academic establishments as Oxford University, Cambridge University etc. etc.

  61. Jemand

    ‘To deny the fact that Islam is inherently violent is like denying that young males are inherently predisposed to carry out that violence.’

    It seems as though your own way of dealing with your own violence is to project it onto Islam. The things that make you angry are when you are expected to conform to Islamic rules by so called leaders who themselves do not conform to Islam.
    These leaders are just little mini Maos. Forget them. They are self-centred ego-warriors who only know how to bend the rules to their advantage.

    You are trying to squeeze your own gripes with your experience of the faults of Far-Eastern Islam into the context of a very important challenge to the false morality of the West’s War on Terror and it won’t work.

    Just enjoy the fatuous mouthings of the bought, opening and closing like goldfish, trying to condemn one act of violence while simultaneously fanning the flames of war in Syria. Also like goldfish they have to swim in their own defecation. They don’t like it up ‘em, but enjoy the fun while it lasts.

  62. Kathy, nothing can save you, nor people like you, from your wilful denial of reality and history, and childish wishful thinking. Enjoy!

  63. Doug

    Leave the projectors alone.

    More translation work for you I’m afraid:

    http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/epochmag/contents4/thistle1.html

  64. Jemand

    Well I did study the subject at degree level so I think I know what I am talking about. Besides, one aspect of the course was about European prejudice towards Islam and I am afraid you display the typical characteristics of ignorance and intolerance inherent in that attitude.

  65. doug scorgie

    23 May, 2013 - 3:17 pm

    Jemand
    23 May, 2013 – 11:42 am

    “As the UK converts to Islam, as it surely is and whether people like it or not, violent incidents like this will increase and eventually lead to a catastrophic major conflict, if not civil war.”

    Not true Jemand the UK is not converting to Islam or any other religion Agnosticism and Atheism are the two main philosophies on the rise.

    But then you are a racist and a liar; so what you say is expected.

    “I wonder what excuses apologists of Islam will make for this incident.”

    This was not an “incident” as you call it; it was a barbaric execution.

    There are no excuses for what happened in Woolwich but, if you think carefully, there are reasons and one of the main reasons is British foreign policy.

  66. Kathy – u iz a poynty heddid interlech…intuhlek…internet, and my mate bazza down the pub nos mor about islamb than u evva wil.

  67. “Why do they hate us?”

    British soldier jailed for stabbing 10-year-old Afghan boy

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8933193/British-soldier-jailed-for-stabbing-10-year-old-Afghan-boy.html

    the soldier “took hold of the boy’s shoulder and stabbed him in the region of his kidneys with his bayonet”.

    [ISAF stands for International Security Assistance Force]

  68. Andre K

    ‘…Northern Ireland. The role which colonialism played in the origins of that conflict is now of little consequence north or south of the border. What is the major dividing issue is religion mixed with social class.’

    No, Sir. That is what you would like it to be about. Why do you think that we are discussing the separation of Scotland from the UK if not because of the buried, unforgiven past? The British are going to have learn to eat humble pie and the sooner that day comes the better in my opinion.

  69. Guano, I’m well aware that Western military incursions into the Muslim world excites a justifiably excited reaction. But you seem to be unaware that people are justified in refusing the imposition of any religion on their minds and in their lives. I reject Islam not only at a personal level because it is a superstitious nonsense created by one man and promulgated by fools, but also at a national level because I know it to be a totalitarian way of life that demands absolute surrender under penalty of death – I don’t want this for my country, nor for other disbelievers.

    There are a lot of pompous, cardigan-wearing wankers who want to pose as our intellectual and cultural superiors by ‘tolerating’ and ‘accepting’ Islam, as if it were a harmless weekend hobby that is infrequently misrepresented by psychopathic murderers. And these same arrogant retards often falsely accuse opponents of Islam as being racist, bigoted and malicious and slyly attempt to falsely associate us with right-wing extremists as if there is an intrinsic relationship between the rejection of this brand of ideology and the subscription to some crackpot, right-wing movement.

    But I can see that the UK intelligentsia who comment regularly on this blog do not see any kind of threat from Islam. Good luck to them. They have all managed to rationalise an explanation that disassociates politically motivated violence from an inherent agenda of expansionism and refuse to accept the plain fact that Islam, at its current pace, will be the dominant religion of Britain by the end of the century. Somehow, they must think, Islam will inexplicably plateau at a low percentage, or transform to become a modern British equivalent of pseudo-Christianity.

    God save the Queen, because nothing will save the UK.

  70. Jon Pelfrey
    22 May, 2013 – 10:59 pm

    “Just saw the news regarding the hacking of the soldier in London. One of yours who did the hacking, Craig? I’m wondering if we’ll have one less commenter here.”

    An explanation for this comment would be in order don’t you think?

    I second that.

    ==========

    Dreoilin has dug up: Some oddities about Woolwich described here

    ==========

    ….. Of belonging to no effective community?

    Not at all! Not at all! See all those nice balaclava wearing EDL, and their mentors in combat 18 (1=”A”dolf 8=”H”itler), along with the rest of the friendly and multiculti loving apple pie eating racist fuckwits of: bnp/nf/ziofuckwits/Ukip/et al, have all welcomed these “immigrants/Muslims/Paki Bastards/Black Bastards” with clenched fists and made these “outsiders/job stealing/white woman raping/Social security scrounging” citizens to feel they are part of the fabric of our societies.

    Needless to point out that this particular love extended to these new comers has been in the traditional way of kicking the shit out of them, caving their skulls in, stabbing them to death (Stephen Lawrence), shooting them (Psycho Stapleton), which of course these ungrateful “bastards” misconstrue as hate!

    Clearly our harmonious society, that has been, set to be hating the fuck out of the Muslims/Blacks/Chinks/Pakis all equally well is only reflective of our Christian values, that in the face of the surge of the “Muslim Scum” has only turned to the other foot to kick the fuckers to death.

    So no need to start going all namby pamby about the “exclusion”, “alienation”, and all that shit. Nothing that a good Christian beating won’t solve that is all!

    Or is it just the cool thing to do these days?

    What is so cool about getting even more ostracised and hated?

    However you old lizard thanks for the laughter I really needed that:

    No, that’s Jean-Marie le Pen’s prediction. And probably Pat Buchanan’s. Certainly Nigel Farrage’s and Nick Griffin’s.* Credit where credit is due, eh?

    Though given that the most marginalised are the readiest converts, and that the current regime government is alienating and marginalising as many of our citizens as possible, I am sure that the fascists have a point.

  71. The religious books were accounts of experiences written by humans complete with foible defects. The Koran exalts Jesus, the Torah depicts Jesus as a false messiah while the Bible views Mohammad just once. Interestingly the ‘Lords prayer’ is told in all the religious writings.

    ‘Daily bread’ is of course an essential human need.

  72. Kathy

    Jemand is not of European extraction nor culture, so far as I understand. He dislikes Islam on account of his experience of a version of Islam that is Eastern, hierarchical, theologically suspect and his experience is also personal rather than theoretical, I think.

    Since you have studied the topic of Islam in the West, why do you think that Europe dislikes La ilaha illa Allah? Is it because they are good, obedient followers of corrupt sacred texts which inform them of God’s delegation of power to Christ, or is it because they never really accepted Protestant theology that there is no intermediary between human and God?

    Is it top-down state oppression/propaganda followed by stigma, conservatism and apathy?
    Or is it the fear of life alteration and growth which might be accompanied by lower standard of living? Where would we be if we had not had the recent neo-colonial oil wars?

  73. technicolour

    23 May, 2013 - 4:17 pm

    Jemand, I don’t know what you think you’re doing by citing three of the bloodiest periods of recent-ish history as examples of ‘political evolution’ – or any evolution. They were an excuse for lunatics with guns to take over. None of the above had ‘evolved’ to the point of political – of and for the people – thought. I again suggest you look at the entirely peaceful Portuguese Carnation revolution.

    It’s unclear whether you’re using Hitler as a reason to demonise Islam, or approving Hitler’s tactics as a method of tackling Islam. The fact remains, as you must well know, but display no conscience about, Muslim people make up under 5 percent of this country: that is, out of 100 people, 5 of them are Muslims. And not the scary, bearded Muslim under the bed variety which you seem personally to enjoy promoting: look at the terror statistics above. Add some facts and knowledge to your discourse.

    Your cries about Islam ‘taking over’ are indefensible: your language – “sly…false…bigoted…malicious” – so far sadly suggestive of its user.

  74. Mark

    The moment of clarity that I experienced about religious books was when reading the Gospels prophecy:
    ‘ But when the Father sends the Advocate as my representative–that is, the Holy Spirit–he will teach you everything and will remind you of everything I have told you.John 14:26′

    I asked why this prophecy had not been fulfilled. Then I realised that Muhammad SAW is the fulfilment of this promise. The Christians got themselves in a muddle between the Gnostic reaching towards God through the inner light of the soul and the Semitic tradition of revelation through prophets, peace be upon all of them.

    Translators of scripture often transliterate names instead of mentioning them. Muammi is a Kurdish/ Aramaic word for Advocate.
    In the original scripture the word Muhammad would have been clear, and censored later.

  75. (someone in German, whhhheeeeeehhhhheeeyyy), Tosser! If you had spewed the hate that you have juxtaposing “Judaism” with “Islam” would your post even be on this board? Would you not be banned?

    For a wanker who has a German Moniker, you are awfully patriotic!

    God save the …….. Cuz no other fucker will, etc.

    You pissant little prick, stop spewing your obsessive hatred of Islam and Muslims, at once.

  76. Support Bradly Manning.

    Demo, 2pm, 1st June 2013 Grosvenor Square, London W1, closest tube Bond Street.

    https://twitter.com/blacbloc/status/337358611875500032/photo/1

  77. Thank god i’m an agnostic.

  78. Typo -apologies- Bradley Manning

  79. Mark
    ‘John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.’

    Prophet Muhammad SAW has this quality, that he spoke only what he heard from God from the Angel Gabriel, whether in the Qur’an or in hadeeth.

    The Gospels were written by men complete with human failings and false ideas, but the Qur’an is directly from God, as prophecied here.

  80. Thanks for all the nice, intelligent responses. Technicolour, you’re back in old form making assumptions about me. I have never endorsed Nazism – EVER. You are also selectively blind, quite obviously ignoring comments by people like Doug Scorgie who accused me of the things I mentioned and then, ironically you accuse me of the same –  by sly implication. As for your statistics, they are meaningless. You still don’t understand that unrelated, isolated or parochial violence is irrelevant. Violence is a methodology with a purpose. If the purpose is to rob banks, then it requires a distinct solution. If the purpose is to eradicate an ethnic group, it requires a different solution. Islamic violence, while having the same bloody appearance, is unique and again, requires another particular solution. Your solution is to offer hugs. Good luck with that.

  81. Petition ‘Obama — Guantanamo ends now’:

    http://www.avaaz.org/en/obama_shut_down_gitmo_4/?slideshow

    Looking to get 500K signatures ASAP – currently as 484K.

  82. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    23 May, 2013 - 5:01 pm

    Doug Scorgie opines :

    “There are no excuses for what happened in Woolwich but, if you think carefully, there are reasons and one of the main reasons is British foreign policy.”
    ———-

    Well, it’s refreshing that you agree that there are no excuses.

    But tell us : thinking “carefully”, as you say, what in your opinion are (1) “the reasons”/the “main reasons”, other than British foreign policy?

  83. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    23 May, 2013 - 5:18 pm

    And now, back on-topic (if the savants prosing on about Islam will allow)….

    @ Craig :

    In your lead-in post you use the expression “the freedom of my own nation”. The a contrario of that is that Scotland is currently not free, which is quite a serious charge.

    It would be interesting to hear from you the conditions that need to obtain in order for a country/nation to be “free”. Both generally and in the specific case of Scotland (should you feel that these general conditions need supplementing – or narrowing – in the case of Scotland). Idem any conditions that would need not to obtain, or types of events which could/should not have happened, in a free country/Scotland.

    Furthermore, could you offer us any international comparisons from (relatively) recent history? To take one example – and there are probably much better ones – would you equate the Highland clearances with the Ukrainian holodomor?

  84. technicolour

    23 May, 2013 - 5:20 pm

    Jemand: “I have never endorsed Nazism – EVER” – can you, therefore, explain what you mean by citing the Nazis, along with Mao and the Bolsheviks, as forms of ‘political evolution”.

    “If the purpose is to eradicate an ethnic group, it requires a different solution” – indeed. And I’m sure you have a reaction to balaclava’d gangs roaming the streets, and their hate and demonisation of a tiny percentage of this country, don’t you, Jemand?

    “Islamic violence, while having the same bloody appearance, is unique and again, requires another particular solution” – the targeting of the vast majority of the peaceful, it seems. Happy with that?

    Honest, Jemand, I don’t know if I’d be worried if you actually believe the nonsense (percentages aren’t important – facts aren’t important – let’s just all wail ‘they’ll take us over’) or whether you are cold-bloodedly spreading this disinformation while knowing there’s not shred of validity to it. Whether you are being used, or using, in short. Either way, it’s really not convincing anyone, is it? Have a hug.

  85. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    23 May, 2013 - 5:31 pm

    April Showers/Mary, bright and early today at 07h35, writes :

    “Catalonia wants independence too” (I take it that those are her own words)

    and then goes on to (presumably) quote from the link she supplies as follows :

    “Spain’s richest region deserves independence”.

    On the assumption that April Showers endorses the thesis set out in her link, could she perhaps tell us why she agrees that Catalonia “deserves independence”?

    If, by any chance, the reasons are only financial, would she then also agree that the richer South of England should not subsidise the poorer regions of Northern England?

  86. “Woolwich attack: of course British foreign policy had a role”

    “I am a former soldier. I completed one tour of duty in Afghanistan, refused on legal and moral grounds to serve a second tour, and spent five months in a military prison as a result. When the news about the attack in Woolwich broke, by pure coincidence Ross Caputi was crashing on my sofa. Ross is a soft-spoken ex-US marine turned film-maker who served in Iraq and witnessed the pillaging and irradiation of Falluja. He is also a native of Boston, the scene of a recent homegrown terror attack. Together, we watched the news, and right away we were certain that what we were seeing was informed by the misguided military adventures in which we had taken part …” (continues)

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/23/woolwich-attack-british-foreign-policy-role

  87. Heneggcluck (Tho’ I prefer Doug Scorbie’s Halfacock)

    Thanks for reporting in and laying 2 eggs!

  88. 3! Enough to make a cake!

  89. There have always been mentally ill folk in society.
    Wether they were terrorists or not, depends on who tells the story.
    Fear is good.
    Why wasn’t Peter Sutcliffe a Christian terrorist? God told him to murder prostitutes.

  90. Glenn Greenwald

    Was the London killing of a British soldier ‘terrorism’?

    What definition of the term includes this horrific act of violence but excludes the acts of the US, the UK and its allies?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/23/woolwich-attack-terrorism-blowback

  91. Humans are in a perpetual ‘muddle’ Guano. The requisite for our life required a colossus universe to transmute spirit to matter. It was matter that eventually delivered frozen water to a random place that would sustain it and prepare that place for a precursor life form, delivered by that same matter.

    It seems humans have confused Spirit and matter since we recognised meteorites came from the cosmos. The hard granite like substance was thought to connect us with the stars and their gods. Early humans revered this rock; ultimately it had arrived on earth from the heavens in a massive fireball. It was an idol and the seed of religion. A kaaba, a sacred place, a center of peace and hence trade, recorded by writers such as Procopius and Nonnosus, a place of pilgrimage.

    That is I believe the essence and right now it can easily be destroyed by the very same forces that created the warmth that maintains us.

  92. Technicolour, what is your problem in understanding that despotic regimes came to power using violence, like the Catholic Church used violence and how Islamists use violence?

    I didn’t know that balaclava hooded people were roaming the streets until I read it here on this blog. I haven’t seen anything in the media so far. What is my reaction? I predicted it, exept for the fact that I learnt about the news later than the rest of you. And I predict more violence. Is that good enough of a reaction for you or should I pour my heart out and cry? Like that does any good. It can sure make you feel like you’re a better person than others tho’.

    Happy with targetting of the vast majority of peaceful people? What the fuck are you accusing me of now? Did I advocate violence against Muslims? No. I predicted it. It’s not hard to predict escalating tit-for-tattery. You just imagined my endorsement of violence Technicolour, just like all the other crap you imagine that gives you cause to assume a morally superior pose.

    All those percentages you quoted might be correct, but as usual, you don’t understand that they are not relevant in this discussion. I have been saying for a long time, including on this blog, that “terrorist” related violence in the West is way less than car accidents. That hysteria over terrorism is unjustified and people ought to get a grip. So please don’t lecture me on comparative violence between Islamists, nationalists, lunatics et al. You’re arguing about something altogether different. Not even on the same page.

    And you are clearly disinterested in factual numbers yourself. Demographic statistics speak of another development and you either know about it, understand it and care – or you do not. Clearly you do not. A long time ago, Britain was full of pagans, then Roman Catholics, then Protestants and, coming soon – Muslims. All earlier transformations were violent – that’s a fact, unless you feel like contradicting me. Ya just can’t get your head around that, can ya? It’s just .. all too silly to contemplate. Isn’t it? 

    Violence filled the world for time immemorial, and much of the world still today. Blaming individuals and denying the reality of franchised political violence is not a solution – it’s part of the problem. So please cut the bullshit excuses, apologies, rainbows and hugs that serve only to demonstrate what a wonderful person you are.

  93. Are 90% of folk on this thread thick, or simple trolling?

  94. technicolour

    23 May, 2013 - 9:09 pm

    Dear Jemand; Thanks for your reply. Why are you quoting ‘despotic regimes who came to power through violence’ in the first place? With whom are you drawing a modern analogy? Of whom are you scared?

    I agree that with the leaders we have at the moment the world does not particularly feel in safe hands. I too can sit here predicting violence in this country, as opposed to violence against other countries. The difference, I think, is you, based on your view of Islam, predict an upsurge of violence – a terrifying upsurge of violence – coming from a tiny and already demonised percentage of the population, apparently. Really? Have I got this right? If not, many apologies. If so, based on where, exactly?

    Re demographics: please provide your figures as to how 4 people are able to overwhelm 100 people. If your answer is ‘by having more babies’ then could you provide the calculation which shows how ‘they’ will be able to do this; factoring in environmental, social and global factors which now and in future are affecting population growth, obviously.

    Could you also, perhaps, realise that, as a society, we need more babies?
    The assimilation of people of all shapes and sizes and skin complexions and ideas into this nation is these days a peaceful process, quite unlike the barbarity displayed by the Protestants towards the Roman Catholics. Again, I don’t see where your analogy comes from.

    Immigration itself is a controlled and gradual process. The figures are here:

    UK (ONS 2011)
    Total of what is called long-term immigration: 598,000
    Number of students included in total (who actually have short term status): 250,000
    Total UK long-immigration: 339,000

    UK Emigration: 338,000

    “Happy with targetting of the vast majority of peaceful people? What the fuck are you accusing me of now?2

    I asked a question. Was that an answer?

    “Did I advocate violence against Muslims? No. I predicted it. It’s not hard to predict escalating tit-for-tattery.”

    Two lunatics condemned by Muslims everywhere and the gangs come in – where’s the tit for tat? There’s no organised Muslim gang like the EDL,

    “You just imagined my endorsement of violence Technicolour, just like all the other crap you imagine that gives you cause to assume a morally superior pose”

    Do you think it’s ‘morally superior’ to want to stop violence? If your mother, or someone close to you, was being attacked, would it be ‘morally superior’ to try and stop that happening? I don’t understand.

    “franchised political violence” – do you mean “breaking the law”?

  95. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    23 May, 2013 - 10:07 pm

    “Number of students included in total (who actually have short term status):”

    …..and many of whom actually stay on illegally after the end of their studies.

  96. Juteman

    Thick or Trolls?

    Both, it seems, in the passive sense. We have ‘been thickened’ by our security services’ and MSM’s skill at false-flag operations into a false debate and we have ‘been trolled’ into knee-jerk reactions.

    If you don’t like the morale debate on UK foreign policy, you probably won’t like the conspiracy theory debate either. Apologies. What a waste of time and space. But at least Jemand found a new friend.

  97. Juteman 23 May, 2013 – 6:44 pm

    “Are 90% of folk on this thread thick, or simple trolling?”

    I’ve been wondering why anybody with such a low regard for the folk on this thread would continue to post on it. I can think of only two plausible answers — he/she must be thick or simply trolling.

  98. “and many of whom actually stay on illegally after the end of their studies” – notice unspecified number based purely on speculation. Prove otherwise.

  99. Now 4. Changed my mind. I’m going to make Soufflé Habbercake.

  100. It is well that one of the uglier aspects of Scottish society is aired and is not ignored amongst all the soaring optimism. That is freemasonry: its influence, the terrible damage it does in so many spheres, and its potential for abuses before, during and after the referendum.

    I’ve noticed that this blog, which updates at a glacial pace
    http://www.tomminogue.com/blog7.php/second-page
    has recently had an update to its content in a series on this subject.

  101. Somehow, they must think, Islam will inexplicably plateau at a low percentage, or transform to become a modern British equivalent of pseudo-Christianity.

    Well, there you go, then. We’ve (us Celts, Romans, Vikings, Saxons, Normans, Huguenots, Jews, Hindus, Caribbeans, etc) managed to absorb and subvert Christianity, so why not Islam?

    You’ve seen the bad side of Islam, maybe, Jemand. I’ve glimpsed the bad side of Christianity (see any fundamentalist Baptist site for details), and I can’t put a fag paper between the two bad sides as regards proselytising and the promotion of hatred.

    Personally (Guano), I have no problem with ‘la illaha il Allah’ If there’s a God, it is more rational to believe (if you allow belief to have any rational content whatever) that there is one only, and that it is universal. Which means that it probably doesn’t favour one part of the thin organic layer on this insignificant planet. It’s the “wa Mohammed rasul Allah” which bothers me for that selfsame reason. The BOOK versions of the one God are tribal ones, and all are to be deplored in my as humble as I ever get opinion.

  102. @Technicolour

    Living in a bubble of optimism is one way you can view the world. Another way is to look at the rest of the world as it grapples with unprecedented problems of extreme climate events, collapse of local ecologies, exploitative economic systems and social unrest, and be grateful for living in the sweet spot of time and space – in comfortable 21stC England. Are you so sure that the UK is NOW resistant to dramatic change, unlike at any other time in its history?

    Perhaps you are indifferent or agreeable to the Islamisation of the UK. If that’s the case, no problem – for you. For others, it’s not OK. I won’t mention the diminished role of women in Islamic societies, that would be a sly attempt at appealing to your feminist sensibilities. We’ll leave that one out.

    I could quote from various readings but I think it is better that I give you the sources of some discussion ‘out there’ on the intergoogle for you to consider, critique, contradict. In particular, I would appreciate a creditable source link for an argument that asserts that Islamisation of the UK or West is a bogeyman or silly phobia promulgated by stupid Chicken Littles, like me.

    Christian website discusses Islamisation of West, obviously biased - 
    http://89.206.188.153/US/News/Archives/The-Islamisation-of-the-West.html?p=0

    Interesting discourse, probably racist - 
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/edwest/9666257/heres_an_inconvenient_truth_the_islamisation_of_europe/

    A crazy woman criticizes Islam (probably a member of Stormfront) -
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbz2ZC59_yw

  103. April Showers

    24 May, 2013 - 1:25 pm

    Whining from the JC and comment on the Church of Scotland’s document ‘The Inheritance of Abraham’ even though it was revised.

    http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/107923/scottish-jews-condemn-church-scotland

    http://mycatbirdseat.com/2013/05/38915way-to-go-church-of-scotland/

    http://www.scojec.org/news/2013/13v_cos/cos_4.html

  104. …. It’s the “wa Mohammed rasul Allah” which bothers me

    Yea Olde Lizard, you have been so pessimistic lately, “glass is half empty” pasted all over.

    Ever thought, that “wa Mohammed rasul Allah”, has been intented to ensure that the versus of Quran are in fact not the creative work of the said: “rasul”. Therefore no tribalism connotation based on this context; “glass is half full” sort of an outlook.

    Ergo; obtains the universality of one God/Allah.

  105. That is freemasonry: its influence, the terrible damage it does in so many spheres, and its potential for abuses before, during and after the referendum.

    Precisely, as you have astutely observed.

  106. April Showers

    24 May, 2013 - 9:41 pm

    Hope Craig’s talk went well and was well attended.

  107. Well I was there, the venue was full, all the speakers were interesting, and Craig was probably the best of the lot. Of course I’m biased as I read Craig’s blog, I’m in alignment with a fair amount of what he says, and I don’t know if any of the other speakers even have blogs. Craig made some strong points about British foreign policy, as was probably to be expected, and despite being the last speaker, was the first to bring up the issue of “indyref” media bias. Media bias was the main issue from audience questions afterwards, and (Craig aside) the responses from the panel of speakers didn’t fill me with confidence.

    Craig, if you’re reading this, of course I would have hung around and got you out for a drink and discussion about the world and about your Scottish family (Scottish family history being a big interest of mine, once my livelihood, now I merely moonlight) but I’m imagining you have had better offers for this evening. Some other time perhaps.

  108. I managed to be there too in the end (@haemoglobin: the noisy American with the ‘Yes’ button was my wife). Craig was terrific, giving a much-needed international context: ‘the United Kingdom is no longer an entity of which we can be proud’! Well said.

    All were good though, and doesn’t the air seem cleaner when there is no-one around from New Labour, Conservatives and Lib Dems?

    There’s an interesting piece here from Professor Michael Gardiner at the University of Warwick.

    “Some of us don’t like nationalism at all, which is one of the main reasons we support the Yes campaign for self-determination.”

  109. After the News Quiz kerfuffle a few weeks ago, a regular guest on the show the next week was

    http://pinkindustry.wordpress.com/2008/04/02/daniel-finkelstein-2/

    If ever confirmation was needed that the BBC is utterly shameless and that politicisation of every nook and cranny of their output is total, this seals it.

    Finkelstein is every bit one of the especial and guilty warmongers and propaganda agents.

    It is beyond satire, sickening that license payers line the pockets of such bought scum.

  110. Stuart Edinburgh

    26 May, 2013 - 7:33 pm

    I went along and was impressed with the quality of the debate. Very interested in the BBC bias comments. You had a proposal which I think should be followed up. The BBC these days I think are totally off the rails, not just on the YES campaign but a number of other issues too. They need to be accountable for their actions.

  111. April Showers

    27 May, 2013 - 9:18 am

  112. Ever thought, that “wa Mohammed rasul Allah”, has been intented to ensure that the versus of Quran are in fact not the creative work of the said: “rasul”. Therefore no tribalism connotation based on this context; “glass is half full” sort of an outlook.

    Ergo; obtains the universality of one God/Allah.

    VERY good point, Fedup. But at risk of seeming pessimistic – which is my default mode on anything involving politics, religion or football – the universality of the deity is not best demonstrated by his handing down several entirely different messages – all claimable as authentic – and I think my point stands.

    I’m still waiting for a messenger of God who signs off with the message: “I am of absolutely no importance in this matter. It is my dying wish that you do not even remember my existence, but get on with worshipping the one God alone.”

    But of course that would be terrible politics.

  113. I assume you didn’t say “I prefer living on the Isle of Thanet.” :)

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