Pandering to Racism

by craig on June 26, 2013 1:52 pm in Uncategorized

Here in Ghana people are stunned by the announcement that a bond of £3,000 will have to be submitted by visa applicants to the UK, redeemable on return.

It is unpleasant for a nation to be singled out as comprised of particularly untrustworthy individuals against whom special measures are needed.  Theresa May appears quite deliberately to be singling out countries whose citizens are normally black or brown – India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Ghana and Nigeria.  They are all citizens with extremely close ties to the UK.  For example, all of those countries supplied large numbers of men to British armed forces in two World Wars; with little resulting gratitude.

The true level of Britain’s regard for the Commonwealth is disclosed in all its arrogance; citizenship of the Commonwealth countries with the longest link to the UK will become a positive disadvantage in visa application.  Israeli settlers living in Occupied Palestine on the West Bank, incidentally, will still be allowed to enter the UK without any visa at all, despite membership of neither Commonwealth nor EU.  Paradoxical, isn’t it?

The measure shows the arrogant British disdain for these countries – of which India pre-eminently but also Ghana are fast growing and important trading partners.  Undoubtedly Ghana will retaliate with measures which hurt British businesses; many of my good friends are senior Ghanaian politicians, and they are all furious.  The rhetoric the British employ about transformation from colonial status to a modern partnership of equals is exposed for the tissue of lies it has always been.  This is a straightforward racist measure, aimed at securing the racist vote to the Tories.

Not does it make any sense.  If you are intending to enter the UK under false pretences, and have the intent illegally to settle and start a new life there, then £3,000 is scarcely a deterrent given the substantial economic gains you intend to make over the long period you intend to stay.  It will rather seem a good investment; people will find the money.  The people it will deter are those who never intended to overstay.  The extra cash upfront,  to the businessman for a business trip, for the student coming to study, for the tourist will drive them to go elsewhere, to the UK’s net loss.

More cruelly it will deter decent middle class people from coming to see grandchildren in the holidays, from going to the niece’s wedding,  from going to graduation.  Those things will become the prerogative of the wealthy, those with plenty of cash to spare.

This does nothing to deter illegal immigration.  It merely demonstrates populist racism, demonstrates contempt for some of the UK’s best-disposed friends, and demonstrates that the government thinks the right to travel is only for the rich.  It is contemptible.

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932 Comments

  1. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    1 Jul, 2013 - 4:39 pm

    Arbed;

    Do you know anything about the Guardian’s deleted story?

    http://www.businessinsider.com/the-guardian-wayne-madsen-nsa-scoop-2013-6

  2. @ Passerby

    Just for the confusion:

    How do you like these apples.

    Ease up on the hate mate!

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lWsuVuw5JO4

  3. Ben Franklin, 3.24pm

    Yes, it’s probably due to some competitiveness between lesser and greater power pacts within Ecuador. It was feared Assange was pulling Ecuador’s strings, or would be perceived as such.

    Typical infighting to secure the best possible path for the ambitious.

    Not sure it does represent infighting on this occasion. Of course, we only have partial quotes, due to the agenda of the media outlets (Univision/Wall Street Journal) making them public. Given that the most damaging quote – “from the outside […] it looks like Assange is running the show” (owtte) – is from the Ecuadorian Ambassador to the US, it is possible to read it simply as input from the appropriate diplomat on the public relations aspect from her perspective?

    Oh-oh, news flash:

    Putin: Snowden can stay in Russia if he stops damaging USA
    http://rt.com/news/putin-snowden-asylum-extradite-489/

    Anyone care to translate what the hell that means?

  4. Ben at 4.39pm

    I think the Guardian/Observer pulling that story is sheer embarrassment because Wayne Madsen is known for his very conspiratorial views, and hence not really a very credible source.

  5. Follow on from my comment at 4.43pm:

    What I’m referring to is the not-so-subtle hints about spy swaps in that article. Or perhaps it’s just a feint, because Putin must know that Snowden had already securely distributed all he’s got to journalistic organisations prior to travel from Hong Kong. I’m not sure it’s really up to Snowden any more how much damage will be done to the US. Sunshine is coming, like it or no :)

  6. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    1 Jul, 2013 - 4:52 pm

    Arbed; That was a strange things for Putin to say. I don’t know what to make of it because he’s never revealed anything but antipathy for the US. However his comments on human rights made me remember a comment by someone called ‘Cog’ a couple pages back.

    “Thanks for Big Brother’s take in the LAT, BF, very instructive. Domestic US propaganda consistently tries to twist Snowden’s case into a bilateral foreign policy issue. The US government needs foreign devils and enemies within. But Snowden’s case has started the wheels of an international process that the US is desperate to derail.

    Russia has consistently maintained that action wrt Snowden should be under the purview of the UN High Commissioner for Refugees. This opens the door for Snowden to get laissez-passer under the 1951 refugee convention, and Snowden’s got a good case as a person in fear of persecution and torture for his opinions. Non-refoulement protects Snowden from being returned to a state known to torture rights defenders, e.g Bradley Manning. Espionage charges are classic persecution tactics used by police states fighting for impunity.

    As a rights defender (acting to promote freedom-of-information and privacy rights of the ICCPR and UDHR,) Snowden is in the remit of the special rapporteur on rights defenders, and subject to corresponding protective initiatives of the EU, the OAS, and international NGOs, incl.:

    http://www.ohchr.org/EN/Issues/SRHRDefenders/Pages/CommentarytotheDeclarationonHumanRightsDefenders.aspx

    http://www.ohchr.org/en/Issues/SRHRDefenders/Pages/SRHRDefendersIndex.aspx

    http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Issues/Defenders/CommentarytoDeclarationondefendersJuly2011.pdf

    The established principle is, a state cannot prosecute a person for defending human rights. Viewing Snowden as a rights defender short-circuits all the HERO! TRAITOR! HERO!! TRAITOR!! nonsense. The point is not Snowden’s virtues or US interests, but the importance of defending the human rights of privacy and freedom of information”

    Why has no one thought of involving the UN?

  7. “Anyone care to translate what the hell that means?”

    Yikes …
    Obama/Putin deal: Snowden can stay in Russia and USA will stop chasing him, on condition that he releases no more info?

  8. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    1 Jul, 2013 - 4:55 pm

    Spy swaps..why didn’t I think of that. Snowden is screwed because Obama said he’s DEFINITELY not going to play that game.

  9. Flaming June

    1 Jul, 2013 - 5:01 pm

    I watched a Westminster Hall debate on TV the other day. Tony Baldry was asking for the lifting of some of EU directive regulations on bat conservation due to the damage they cause to church buildings and fabric with their droppings and urine. He is a second estates church commissioner.
    ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Commissioners. )

    I am very fond of the little creatures and actually have some pipistrelles who live under the tile hanging at the front of my house. At dusk they come out and whizz round. Fascinating.

    He went on and on reading from about six sheets of A4. When a young female MP intervened mentioning the Bat Conservation Trust, he became quite angry and shouted her down. She smiled as he resumed. The Hansard version here.
    http://www.theyworkforyou.com/whall/?id=2013-06-25a.27.0&s=speaker%3A10023#g27.1

    I looked at his register. He receives £40,000 pa from Woburn Energy in oil exploration. He has links to a paper recycling company in Kazakhstan, is a barrister receiving fees of £88,000, has a shareholding in a Sierra Leone gold and diamond mining company, etc etc
    http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/tony_baldry/banbury#register

    The list is endless right back to 1999. – Donation in kind for a research assistant from a lighting industry association, a paid trip to India, a directorship of a company with interests in Iraq……
    http://www.theyworkforyou.com/regmem/?p=10023

    Doing well Tony. Hope the bats do too.

  10. “YOU are talking about annual expenditure, details of which are on the link I kindly supplied. I am talking about expenditure, period. ”

    The two are becoming confused and compared one with another which I think you’ll agree is meaningless.

  11. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    1 Jul, 2013 - 5:34 pm

    Quite a large number of affiliates (secular) in the oppos. Hating Mursi seems to be their agreement, in principle.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Salvation_Front_(Egypt)

  12. It appears (Komodo’s link @3.34 today) that the ‘bond scheme’ which precipitated Craig’s post was all hot air; just a headline grabbing ‘announcement’ presumably made to grab some votes back from UKIP.

    So, much of the comments thread is all a bit of a kabuki show.

  13. strange things for Putin to say. I don’t know what to make of it because he’s never revealed anything but antipathy for the US.

    You are not reading the Russians correctly. A more closer translation can be found in the Reuters headline (Harming ‘our American partners’)

    Putin repeated that Russia had no intention of handing the American over to the United States, which wants him on espionage charges.

    …..Russian intelligence agencies were not working with Snowden … “If he wants to go away somewhere and someone will accept him there, by all means,” Putin said.

    Putin is pissed off with Snowden holding court and letting the kittens out of bag, so to speak of. Further, Putin is at pains to disassociate his SIS from Snowden’s press conferances. This can be read in one of two ways;

    A – Snowden’s data is less valuable if it is in public domain for the Russians to benefit from.

    B – Snowden’s credibility quotient is enhanced and the US efforts in pinning the Russian agent stories are head off at the pass.

    There are other alternative interpretations, that could also could prove to be valid.

  14. Hello Dreoilin – Russia may well grant Edward Snowden political asylum. Kabanov, a member of the Presidential Council on Human Rights, a Kremlin advisory body, said he believes that Russia is on the list of 15 countries Edward has appealed to for protection. Some lateral thinking is required in this direction.

    I am aware Snowden provided beneficial, pragmatic information on the German wiretap.

    I remember the six officers who manned the KGB office in the East German district of Dresden, just 100 meters away from the local headquarters of the Stasi, the former East German secret police.

    America and Britain, both fervent and concentrating on the activities of East German agents ‘emigrated’ to West Germany and tasked with gathering intelligence, nuclear, NATO or otherwise.

    I hope the astute here get this; Germany has now kicked back of course.

  15. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    1 Jul, 2013 - 6:09 pm

    “Some Russians say Putin should grant Snowden asylum, but his remarks suggested the former Soviet KGB officer has little sympathy with the actions of the 30-year-old American who leaked details of secret U.S. government surveillance programmes.”

    Maybe some embarrassing disclosures reach Putin’s level. I never suspected for a minute someone who made a lifetime career of surveillance, would champion a leaker.

  16. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    1 Jul, 2013 - 6:11 pm

    Mark; Do you have an opinion on why the UN has not been involved? Their Human Rights Charter(above) surely has some relevance.

  17. people who can afford to holiday in Europe, what have you to say for those who do not have the wherewithal to make the journey?

    Although patently here is an attempt to make the whole of the discussion look silly (tree hugging, meths drinking! hippies and their sentimental claptrap don’t work). However, referring to the link kindly provided by Komodo, there is a budget of foreign military aid for the amount of three thousands and 200 million pounds which can be earmarked for Medical aid (just think how many people would suffer less with that amount of medicine and medical care).

    Funny how Cuba with its little economy can restore the sight of two plain loads of poor people every week landing in Havana airport and taken to Havana hospitals. Or export Surgeons, Doctors, Nurses, and medicine to poorer nations, whilst our political leadership is the first to export weapons into the hands of “rebels” in the countries that they don’t like which are mostly in the category of; could be rich countries, but have to be kept poor, because the sponsors of the politicians are coveting their ass, and oil, and shit.

  18. Flaming June

    1 Jul, 2013 - 6:22 pm

    Snowden ‘seeks asylum in Russia’

    According to the BBC Breaking news

  19. BrianFujisan

    1 Jul, 2013 - 6:45 pm

    well said Mr Assange

    And Bravo Ecuador too

    The U.S. government also revoked Snowden’s passport, which Assange called a “disgraceful” action.”By cancelling his passport, [the U.S.] has left [Snowden] for the moment marooned in Russia,” he said. “I think that every citizen has the right to their citizenship, to take someone’s principle form of citizenship their passport, is a disgrace.” “He is a hero,” Assange said of Snowden. “He has told the people of the world and the United States that there is mass unlawful interception of their communications.”

    http://therealnews.com/t2/component/hwdvideoshare/viewvideo/76526

  20. “Don’t think so, Macky”

    Thanks Komodo, both for spotting that (still in w/e recovery mode!) & for the upto date link; as I was predicting, this daft proposal will never see the light of day, much to the disappointment of some here.

  21. Syrians have captured a Turkish intelligence officer, who was assigned to Syrian Free Brigade and has been busy bombing, rocketing and plundering his way through Halab in Syria. His exploits have included: dismantling of factory and plants in Halab and smuggling these to Turkey, as well as providing intelligence and advice (ie how to blow up, etc) for the Syrian Free Brigade. This chap is identified as Haia’ny a Turkish Intelligence Officer and after his capture and interrogation, there seems to be plenty of dirt that is to be washed in the Public in the coming days.

    It is getting more and more difficult for the Yanks to keep the lid on their dirty ops and seems glasnost is getting rammed up their butts, which evidently they don’t like it up them!

  22. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    1 Jul, 2013 - 7:19 pm

    I fear that the sharp popping noise some of the more aware commenters may have heard around 16h00 today was Komodo blowing another fuse. He must be careful, as his house might soon be without power. His arguments of course already are.

    And now to the substance of his pop. Leaving aside his bluster and invective, I merely point to two of his comments:

    1/.”YOU are talking about annual expenditure,..”

    Yes, indeed. As is everyone else, I believe. When people write “annual expenditure”, one must assume that they are talking about annual expenditure.

    But not Komodo, it would appear: HE is now, suddenly*, “talking about expenditure, period” – whatever that may mean. I do hope Komodo is not building up to a comparison of one year’s worth of social expenditure with several years’ worth of spending on defence, for that would be….how can I say this kindly?…silly.
    ______

    2/.”Re. arguments, as you seem to be under some compulsion to have an argument on trivial points..”

    If facts and figures are trivial, then I plead guilty as charged :)
    _______

    * curiously enough, Komodo also refers to annual figures in his earlier post at 10h37…
    _______

    Conclusion : commenters should draw on their strengths and not weaknesses. I therefore suggest that Komodo, who is strong on speculation but weak on facts, should henceforth focus on the fascinating discussion on what Ecuador, Russia and the US might – or might not- be doing wrt Edward Snowden. Lots of material there for him to dispaly his unequalled talents :)

  23. Snowden applied for asylum at the consular office at Moscow’s Sheremtyevo airport at 10.30pm on Sunday through his Wikileaks handler, Sarah Harrison, a consular official said.

    Snowden applies for political asylum in Russia

  24. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    1 Jul, 2013 - 7:36 pm

    To return to the question of the £3000 bond/over-stayers.

    It may well be the case that the govt is reviewing its proposal, or at least thinking of not applying it to visitors from India.

    If the latter is true, then surely this would be yet another example of the govt shamefully abandoning what is right and giving in to commercial pressures.

    As such alleged behaviour by the govt in other areas has been roundly condemned by various Eminences on this blog in the past, I trust that the said Eminences will join me in urging the govt to stand fast.

    Ho hum…

  25. “Iran, Russia to Hold Joint Navy Drills in Caspian Sea”

    http://en.ria.ru/world/20130628/181934918/Iran-Russia-to-Hold-Joint-Navy-Drills-in-Caspian-Sea.html

    “Washington Is Driving The World To The Final War — Paul Craig Roberts”

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2013/06/28/washington-is-driving-the-world-to-the-final-war-paul-craig-roberts/

  26. “Earlier this month, the WikiLeaks founder, who had a television show on the Kremlin’s English-language propaganda channel Russia Today, said he had advised Snowden to seek asylum there.

    Fuck off Rusbridger, reporting truth conveys care and duty, not omission, opinion and conjecture for gain; that albatross may exist at grass-roots journalism but dissipates at managers level, falling foul of their own personal bias and onward, succumbing to commercial or political pressure at the editor-in-chief’s desk.

    RT rules OK!

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/01/putin-snowden-remain-russia-offer

  27. Ben Franklin, it’s right. No country on the planet needs more education in human rights than the USA. From my point of view they could send educators from Ecuador to demonstrate to the US senate and house of representatives what they should be teaching in schools, instead of teaching them to wrap themselves in the stars and stripes, to sing “God Bless America” and the “Star Spangled banner” and the President, to quote Animal Farm, is always right.

  28. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    1 Jul, 2013 - 8:20 pm

    But John $32 million dollars is like ten pennies for each of us. We could make fortune cookies with the Bill of Rights inside.

    Seriously, I thought the spin on the facts was a symbolic triumph.

  29. Sorry Ben Franklin I was reading a comment of yours on the previous page about Ecaudor offering 21 billion dollars annually to educate the US in human rights.

  30. Sorry again BF it was 23 million dollars and Ecuador rather than Ecaudor.

  31. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    1 Jul, 2013 - 8:25 pm

    Oh, yeah. My post and I forgot the dollar amount. So each of us get 6 pennies.

  32. … wrap themselves in the stars and stripes, to sing “God Bless America” and the “Star Spangled banner” and the President, to quote Animal Farm, is always right.

    You wish to undo the result of the billions spent to miseducate the current population of inanely stupid, emotionally retarded simpletons, and morons, whom believe their country is doing “good”, through bombing the world into “democracy”?

    This fascist state has been in the making since 1850, and now it has reached its twilight years, and it’s imminent disintegration is so evident.

    ==========

    Fuck off Rusbridger, reporting truth conveys care and duty, not omission, opinion and conjecture for gain

    Ditto, that man, Rusbridger is the presstitute in chief, he would not know the truth, if it were to ware a grass skirt and do the Hula dance on the bridge of his nose.

    ======

    make fortune cookies with the Bill of Rights inside

    You are taking for granted that they can read the “bill of rights”. However what good do you think would that do?

  33. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    1 Jul, 2013 - 8:43 pm

    It’s a joke, Fedup.

  34. Macky,

    “(More later as I’m still a bit Bruce-lagged !)”

    You don’t fool us for a second with tales of Paris and Bruce etc..

    Come on man,it’s OK to admit it…you were really at Glastonbury watching Bruce Forsyth…

    :.)

  35. The devil is in the detail.

    “a couple of years at most.”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-23131123

    I don’t think Trident is going anywhere if Scotland goes independent.

    So what is the count so far…

    Keep the Sovereign as Head of State.
    Stay in NATO.
    Looking good that Trident stays in Scotland.
    Keeping the same currency as the rest of the UK.

    What’s the point in Scottish independence ?.

  36. It’s a joke, Fedup.

    Oh! Now I get it! ROFLMAO

  37. Putin is taking pains to preserve Snowden’s refugee status by undercutting US espionage charges. In the same breath that he admonished good behavior Putin, without taking a personal position, characterized Snowden’s actions in terms of human rights activism, promoting Snowden’s case as a human rights defender.

    Even before Snowden applied for asylum, Russia was already providing the sort of administrative assistance stipulated in Chapter V, Article 25 of the 1951 convention, by publicly referring Snowden to the UNHCR, and by meeting multilaterally with prospective transit countries or destinations. Putin knows what he’s doing.

    Putin’s prissy adherence to international law is putting Snowden out of reach of the US. The USG is dimly aware that it has been outmaneuvered. That’s why Obama had to publicly disclaim any threat of force.

  38. “UN Special Rapporteur Anand Grover on Fukushima: A Stunning Report Brushed Aside by the Japanese Government”

    http://japanfocus.org/events/view/184

  39. Flaming June

    1 Jul, 2013 - 9:30 pm

    BBC Patten to resign. Only joking. He should resign. Have you heard that £25m has gone to 150 ex employees over three years?

    http://news.sky.com/story/1110234/bbc-boss-received-800000-in-final-year

    Entwistle £800k
    Thomson £860k

    Absolute outrage.

  40. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    1 Jul, 2013 - 9:33 pm

    ‘undercutting US Espionage charges…”

    Cogg; Espionage is a mitigating factor in determining Snowdens status wrt UN charter?

    Why is no one else on this interesting segue?

  41. Flaming June

    1 Jul, 2013 - 9:34 pm

    Edward Snowden and Bradley Manning are included in the list of twelve true American patriots nominated here.

    Twelve True Patriots for July 4
    by Bill Quigley / July 1st, 2013

    On July 4, 1776, over fifty people signed the Declaration of Independence. They were openly resisting the legal authority of the King of England. Thousands joined them. They were outlaws. They were breaking the laws of England and risked capture, prison and even death for their belief in independence, equality, unalienable rights, and liberty. They were far from perfect as slavery, the slaughter and removal of Native Americans and the exclusion of women demonstrated. But they did resist their globally powerful government.

    Who are the true patriots of today? Not the flag-wrapped politicians who send other people’s children off to be killed or disabled in wars to make the world safe for big businesses. Not the flag-waving profiteers who view their successes as their due. Not the crowds who chant USA, USA, USA, upon learning of death of Osama bin Laden. Not the religious hypocrites who worship this nation and its flag as yet another one of their gods.

    /..
    http://dissidentvoice.org/2013/07/twelve-true-patriots-for-july-4/

  42. On December 10, 1948 the General Assembly of the United Nations adopted and proclaimed the Universal Declaration of Human Rights the full text of which appears in the following pages. Following this historic act the Assembly called upon all Member countries to publicize the text of the Declaration and “to cause it to be disseminated, displayed, read and expounded principally in schools and other educational institutions, without distinction based on the political status of countries or territories

    Universal Declaration of Human Rights

    I should cocoa too, Human Rights is yet another weapons system that is used by the Western actors in general against their targeted victims in the third world. As in case of any weapons system it is tucked away safe from the reach of the plebeians whom in case of having access to it and mastering it, could render these susceptible to ideas beyond their station.

  43. Just to let everyone know that this Thursday (the glorious 4th July) is Independence from America Day. In the light of the Edward Snowden revelations it is even more important that people make their presence felt outside Menwith Hill this year. Bob Cryer M. P. was whistle-blowing about this US interception station more than twenty years ago (and still whistle-blowing 17 days before his untimely death in a car “accident” in April of 1994). It is fitting that Bob Cryer’s accusations have been verified by Edward Snowden (and others). The thrust of Bob’s argument was “Why do we (the UK) have a US telecommunications’ tapping station in the middle of one of our National Parks without parliamentary consent?” Not only was it a valid argument then, it is a valid argument now. I do not recall any M.P. asking this question since, at least not enough to make the press. World, this is your wake-up call. America hates you! Make your voices heard.

    http://www.caab.org.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/july4th-20132.jpg

  44. Flaming June

    1 Jul, 2013 - 9:47 pm

    Doubtless US bullying is behind this.

    Several Iranian TV channels removed from western satellites
    1 July 2013, 10:28 (GMT+05:00)

    Some Western satellite companies have taken a number of Iranian channels off the air, Press TV reported.

    The satellite companies Hotbird 13-B, Eutelsat 25-C, Eutelsat 21-B, Eutelsat 8-West-A, Intelsat 20, Galaxy 19, and Optus D-2 pulled the plug on the Islamic Republic of Iran’s English news channel Press TV on Monday.

    Iran’s Spanish-language channel Hispan TV was removed from satellites Eutelsat 8-West-A, Eutelsat 7-West-A, and Intelsat 21. Eutelsat 8-West-A also removed Arabic news channel al-Alam.

    Iran’s general entertainment television network iFilm — which broadcasts in both English and Arabic –was also taken off the air by Eutelsat 21-B, Eutelsat 25-C, Hotbird 13-B, Eutelsat 7-West-A, Intelsat 20, and Optus D-2.

    Broadcasting of another Iranian channel, called al-Kawthar, was stopped by Eutelsat 8-West-A, Eutelsat 7-West-A, and Galaxy 19.

    Earlier, the International Telecommunications Satellite Organization (ITSO) called on the United States and Intelsat to suspend their decision on taking Iranian channels off the air.

    ITSO director general José Manuel Do Rosario Toscano asked both Intelsat and the US to hold talks with Iran on the issue.

    http://www.azernews.az/region/56088.html

  45. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    1 Jul, 2013 - 9:51 pm

    Mr Snowden’s reported request for political asylum in Russia – if true – would appear to indicate that the option of asylum in Ecuador is no longer on the table and that President Correa’s fine, defiant words of only a day or two ago were just that.

    The following conclusions, given in decreasing order of importance, would seem to be in order :

    1/. If I were Julian Assange, I would be a worried man

    2/. If I were a defender of human rights defenders I would welcome President Putin into my ranks

    3/ If I had been one of the Eminences who had elevated President Correa to hero status on this blog, I would now be looking around hastily for a new hero.

  46. @Fedup 6 14pm

    “Funny how Cuba with its little economy can………export Surgeons, Doctors, Nurses, and medicine to poorer nations, whilst our political leadership is the first to export weapons…”

    Just listen to how Cuban humanitarian interventions have leaked into contemporary african music.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldLO4LwNLHY

    Now that’s what I call a contribution!

    @Ben. If you’re around. Happy Hour’s early tonight.

  47. Serious nonpolitical crimes invalidate refugee status. Espionage, the USG’s charge, may be a serious crime, but it has a strong whiff of politics – the first trick you learn in Tinhorn Dictatoring 101 is to blame dissent on foreign subversion.

    The US shot itself in the foot when it impulsively took a swing at Snowden with Beria’s favorite bat. Now Snowden looks like America’s Scharansky and Obama looks like America’s Brezhnev. And Putin’s eating it up with a spoon, mmmmm!

  48. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    1 Jul, 2013 - 9:56 pm

    “Who are the true patriots of today? Not the flag-wrapped politicians who send other people’s children off to be killed or disabled in wars to make the world safe for big businesses. Not the flag-waving profiteers who view their successes as their due. Not the crowds who chant USA, USA, USA, upon learning of death of Osama bin Laden. Not the religious hypocrites who worship this nation and its flag as yet another one of their gods.”

    (posted at 21h34 today)
    __________________

    OK, now you’ve told us, at length, who the true patriots of today are NOT, could we please be told who they ARE?

  49. @Fedup 6 14pm

    “Funny how Cuba with its little economy can………export Surgeons, Doctors, Nurses, and medicine to poorer nations, whilst our political leadership is the first to export weapons…”

    Just listen to how Cuban humanitarian interventions have leaked into contemporary african music.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldLO4LwNLHY

    Now that’s what I call a contribution!

    @Ben. If you’re around. Happy Hour’s early tonight.

    …………………
    Jon. email address changed cos I can’t get it accepted . Keep getting message. “Duplicate comment detected; it looks as though you’ve already said that!

  50. Damn. If I had somehow worked two-edged swords into that second paragraph I would have hit the trifecta of mixed metaphors.

  51. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    1 Jul, 2013 - 10:05 pm

    Cogg; We live in interesting times. Any insights on just who is running the US show-and-tell?

    Surely Obama has to show his authoritarian six-pack, just as bare shirted Putin. Please tell me it’s Kerry. I really think Obama doesn’t want Snowden back. It’s a further fuster-cluck to his shredded civil rights bona fides.

  52. WTF?

    Apologies for the duplicate post folks.
    Strangeness here tonight.

  53. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    1 Jul, 2013 - 10:08 pm

    Kibo; Happy hour is earlier? Oh goody.

  54. “Come on man,it’s OK to admit it…you were really at Glastonbury watching Bruce Forsyth…”

    And what exactly would be the problem with that, both the Bruces are living legends !! ;)

    Actually I wanted to say a few words about the concert; spending over 3 hours with thousands of happy people, who with beautiful smiles lightening up their faces, was simply wonderful in itself, the fantastic music & incredible performances of both the Boss & the band, were just icings on the cake !

    As I gazed at some of the Star & Stripes fluttering around the stadium, I was struck by the poignant thought that the US, has, and can contribute some much good & joy to the rest of the world, yet all this is washed away by the endless oceans of blood resulting from it’s non-stop aggression against the developing World; and for what ?, ultimately for the US rich elite to continue their opulent lifestyles, especially to drive those massively thirsty giant cars on the cheapest petrol possible; and indeed if you ever catch one of these people in a frank mood, as I have, they will be honest & tell that yes, this is indeed the bottom line; honesty is indeed a very fine virtue, but would you be comfortable letting such a persons into your personal circle, and introduce to your family & friends ?

    Ditto the same for Great Britain, the West in general, and even for Israel, so much more to offer the world apart from death & destruction, yet all the positives are swept away by torrents of blood & gore, all in order to enrich the greedy elites.

    Maybe I’m rambling, but just blame it on boogie, blame it on the music, and blame it on the Boss !

  55. @jon. 9 42pm

    Re Menwyth Hill question in Parliament: “I do not recall any M.P. asking this question since.”

    Maybe they didn’t want their cars overturned on the M1.

  56. Who? Evidently nobody. The USG is floundering. Bush purged the top echelons at State and installed CIA detailees and Zionazi arms dealers. Obama promoted them, and now they have no one who knows what’s in the treaties that they signed. (Unless maybe Marc Grossman can tell them what the NPT says.) Now somebody invokes the law and the USG is flummoxed. All the “Hero! Traitor!” perseveration is a last-ditch effort to keep domestic public opinion from seeing what a laughingstock the US government has become. Legitimacy, down the toilet. Responsible sovereignty, down the toilet.

  57. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    1 Jul, 2013 - 10:40 pm

    “down the toilet.’

    Good news/bad news. The way tiny HK duped them was my first clue. It’s a shame the Great Experiment had to be left with ‘He who must be obeyed’. I think it all began with the Petrodollar, but it also has to do with a superior attitude, not just wrt the World, but the constituencies.

  58. @Macky 10 13pm

    “…even for Israel, so much more to offer the world apart from death & destruction…”

    Idan Raichels musical collaborations for example. Fusing Jewish and Arab musical artists and styles. Sharing album proceeds with the nonprofit organization Search for Common Ground, which works to transform the way the world deals with conflict, away from adversarial approaches and towards collaborative problem solving.

    From Wikipedia: “SFCG’s mission of transforming the way the world deals with conflict is best captured by their motto “understanding the differences, acting on commonalities”. According to their guiding philosophy, conflict is a natural part of life, and improving the ability to transform conflict into a source of growth and progress will have a profound impact on how well people are able to deal with each issue they face.

    SFCG believes “peace is a process, not an event”. They work with long-term commitments in each country they serve and become immersed into local cultures.”

    Warms the heart.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYYYctLmnt4&list=RD02WDpUlvF0-Dg

  59. BrianFujisan

    1 Jul, 2013 - 11:01 pm

    Good Piece here on the u.s Disgusting Dastardly manouvers in causing the Libya,and Syrian carnage

    Qatar: US Proxy in America’s Terror War in Syria

    The NYT cites a “Western diplomat” (anonymous of course) who states that Qatar: “punch immensely above their weight,… They keep everyone off-balance by not being in anyone’s pocket… Their influence comes partly from being unpredictable,” Again, this seems to be a desired caveat to remove culpability from Western actors, and is highly likely the same “source” that provided the leak on Qatar’s covert actions.

    What is counterintuitive to the theory that Qatar acts of its own accord in such instance; is the fact that Qatar’s military and intelligence apparatus is entirely built and run by the United States. Qatar and the US have held an intimate relationship on all things military since the early 90′s. Qatar is also the Forward Operations center of the US Central Command (CENTCOM), and the US Combined Air Operation Center (CAOC). The US enjoys the luxury of the use of three airbases in the tiny nation of Qatar, one of which (Al Udeid) is the prime location of Qatari arms flights to Syria.

    Considering this close military relationship; it would be foolish to believe the United States would be unaware of Qatari covert activity, particularly when one also considers the broad and global spying and SIGINT powers we now all know the Pentagon, and US government have at their disposal. It should also be noted that Doha acts as a primary base in the region for US diplomacy, as the Taliban can happily attest to.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/qatar-us-proxy-in-americas-terror-war-in-syria/5341204

  60. I think it all began with the Petrodollar,

    No it all began with the Spanish American war, that was soon followed with the Philippines war. Those sponsors of violence and plunder set the standard for the mess that is manifest today.

    It is really funny to read through the Declaration of the Universal Human Rights, and to find the many articles that Cameron, and Obama governments have disregarded and flouted, yet the same chaps have the temerity of hectoring others on their none adherence to the same convention.

  61. Statement from Edward Snowden in Moscow
    Monday July 1, 21:40 UTC

    http://wikileaks.org/Statement-from-Edward-Snowden-in.html?snow

  62. BrianFujisan

    1 Jul, 2013 - 11:19 pm

    Macky Three Bruce’s

    Bruce Dickinson of Iron Maiden Fame.. widely recognized as one of top 5 Heavy rock vocalists of all time.
    Who would ever have thought he would end up a commercial aircraft pilot.

    P.s Macky, Good job you’ve been doing taking on the Blog’s Pest in Chief

  63. Clapper under pressure despite apology for ‘erroneous’ statements to Congress

    US director of national intelligence has apologised for denying in March that the NSA collected data on millions of Americans but senator remains ‘deeply troubled’

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/01/james-clapper-apology-congress-erroneous-response

  64. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    1 Jul, 2013 - 11:28 pm

    The weasel-words seem to have less effectiveness, Dreoilin.

    ” does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans,” Wyden asked Clapper.

    He responded: “No, sir, not wittingly. There are cases where they could inadvertently, perhaps, collect, but not wittingly.”

    I think Clapper should trade his lexicon for the ‘Clapper’ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Clapper

  65. His latest claim, Ben, is that he “misunderstood the question”. If that’s true, he should be back in kindergarten. ;)

  66. BrianFujisan

    1 Jul, 2013 - 11:36 pm

    Dreoilin

    Thanks for that Statement from Edward Snowden

    Straight onto my Facebook Page

  67. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    1 Jul, 2013 - 11:36 pm

    Dreoilin; Is that avatar you? I love the Irish.

  68. It’s a drawing, Ben. But I liked her red hair and her green hat. :)

  69. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    1 Jul, 2013 - 11:49 pm

    Fantasy spoiler… :)

  70. No longer do you have to be “economical with the truth” you can now be “least most untruthful” !!!!!

    God Blight America !

    http://www.salon.com/2013/07/01/this_man_is_still_lying_to_america/?source=newsletter

  71. @Fedup.11 06pm

    “No it all began with the Spanish American war.”

    Beginnings eh?

    If you haven’t come across these you might find them worth a read as the nights draw in.

    Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee by  Dee Brown 
    A history of Native Americans in the American West in the late nineteenth century that expresses a Native American perspective of the injustices and betrayals of the US government.

    A People’s History of the United States by Howard Zinn. A romp through American history through the eyes of the common people rather than political and economic elites.

    Pdfs of both available for free download.

    And I haven’t got near Herodotus yet!

    …………….

    Re Caterpillar and Frog post, 11 45pm on UN thread.

    Clear and Passionate. Needs to be said.

  72. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    1 Jul, 2013 - 11:54 pm

    Kibo; Remember Adam and Eve and the forbidden fruit. Can’t leave them out.

  73. :)

    Think I’ll head for the duvet. I keep thinking of Ed Snowden with only a hard floor to lie on, or perhaps a row of awkwardly-shaped seats. But at 30 he’ll cope better than I would. And his freedom is all that matters really.

  74. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 12:04 am

    Like Tom Hanks in ‘The Terminal’. Eating from vending machines and using the drinking fountain.

    He has sacrificed much.

  75. @Ben.

    Nit-picking again!

    Adam and Eve are imposters.

    What about the Blue Green Algae?

    Now behave and get yer headphones on.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_EbkUy-IN4

  76. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 12:12 am

    Whoever you are Cog, or Cogg or Coggg, you insight has opened up a new paradigm for me.

    For that i thank you

  77. Kibo Noh, good point.

    “Maybe they didn’t want their cars overturned on the M1″.

  78. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 12:19 am

    kibo; You are a rascal, snaring me into a state of bliss. That’s sublime and hypnotic sound magic deluding me into a false Samadhi. I don’t care that it makes me feel good, it’s just that I’m not accustomed to it. It feels foreign, and makes me afraid. Please don’t do that again. :)

  79. not on what?

    2 Jul, 2013 - 12:24 am

    Thanks for Snowden’s statement.

    When Joe Sixpack USA watches cricket, he doesn’t know the rules so all he sees is people cheering and clapping randomly. Grown-up diplomacy is the same way. When it doesn’t involve war, Joe Sixpack USA is kept in the dark about the rules so he can’t follow the game. So for Snowden spectators, here’s the rules.

  80. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 12:25 am

    I can’t compete with that so I will dumb-down to some pedestrian melody from one of my favorite vocalists, Michael McDonald.

    Cheers and g’nite to all.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJe1iUuAW4M

  81. I have invented the word ‘USPIONAGE’ – espionage like ‘happy hour’ is now old school, obsolescent, useless.

    Uspionage means information gathering on client states to gain deniability of US aggression. The policy has provided America with the ultimate escape clause through decades of aggression and subversion upon other sovereign nations.

    “..the Obama administration is afraid of you. It is afraid of an informed, angry public demanding the constitutional government it was promised..” Edward Snowden July 2013-the unveiling, the year of disclosure.

    The ‘public’ or the community are the silent patriots – it must now be approaching the right time to speak out, to act; Egypt is of course showing that people run the show.

    Clearly Britain will follow America into the blood stained cesspool of history, flushed down by the clear waters of validity, justice and truth.

    Our representatives have failed us; now we must do the task ourselves; there is no surrogate, stopgap or substitute.

    It’s do… or die leaving the mutant horror to our children’s children, a millstone for future generations.

  82. This is quite amusing from a few years ago.

    Israeli TV anchor getting more and more pissed at Chomsky.

    In three parts:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM7IFBIfQ1M

    And so to the chill room:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHsxFpZBtfE

  83. @Mark. 12 30pm

    “Clearly Britain will follow America into the blood stained cesspool of history, flushed down by the clear waters of validity, justice and truth.”

    Spot on.

    Mahatma Gandhi when asked what he thought of Western civilization, replied “I think it would be a good idea.”

    So do I.

    ………….

    @Ben.

    Thanks.
    Another stroll down memorylane.
    I’d forgotten about them.
    You won after all.
    I give up.

    From: “Unearthing the Past” by Bill Poster BLSHTR

    “Controversy still rages over the Bone Beds of Bakersvillle, California. Since the bed’s discovery in the 1850s, paleontologists have battled over an obvious question: How did the Doobie Brothers get there? Did a widespread catastrophe, like a red tide or volcanic eruption, lead to a massive die-off?”

    I’m glad you enjoyed “Je te kiffe.”

    ……………

    @ Herbie. 12 42pm

    What a lovely musical end to a good day.
    Thanks.

    Goodnight.

  84. Let’s get some things clear here re Snowden.

    Only his family, friends and Wikileaks cares about his personal wellbeing. All the other actors are exploiting the opportunity.

    Ecuador has special trade relations with the US at stake and cannot afford to be on their list of countries, such as Cuba, to be punished indefinitely for offending US interests. Americans are very patient when it comes to revenge so the financial cost to Ecuador would be very high if it actively assists with his escape to and indefinite stay in their country. This might explain the contrived “error” of issuing and then later revoking travel documents to Snowden.

    Russia is enjoying the pain of US hypocrisy being played out on the world stage but wants to appear as if it is compelled by law and prevented by legal anomolies from cooperating with the US. I believe they are not directly providing assistance to Snowden but instead clearing the way for others to provide for his needs, including the cost of his staying at the airport hotel.

    Russia will not provide asylum to Snowden while American secrets are being published and publicly digested. They certainly wouldn’t want their own Snowdenovich doing likewise from Washington. Snowden should also be reluctant to hurriedly accept asylum in Russia because of the damage it would cause to his and his family’s reputation – ie characterised as being a Russian spy.

    All of Snowden, Ecuador and Russia are in a safe place with Snowden residing in limbo in the transit area of Sheremetyevo International Airport. With this arrangement, the two countries are able to exploit the NSA leaks while appearing to be concerned about human rights and not being seen to be formally assisting Snowden. It is also an opportunity to explore options for Snowden’s eventual onward journey to a permanent safe haven. The country where he settles will certainly be penalised heavily by the US and Snowden will never be free to travel for the rest of his life.

    In the meantime, Wikileaks will remind the mainstream media of their continued relevance as they process and release further leaks from Snowden.

  85. 1st strike + 0

    2 Jul, 2013 - 6:16 am

    Revenge, hahahahaha, that’s a good one! In the old days the USG would send in some death squads to chop up a bunch of priests and rape the shit out of some nuns, but now all they can do is gossip like bitchy little mean girls.

    Yeah, Ecuador is shaking in their boots, boy. The mighty hyperpower might hurt your feewings, Eeek!

    Cuba, you better watch out! The US might embargo you for 50 years or something, you wouldn’t want that, would you? How would you possibly survive the wrath of the mighty US? Do you imagine that mere leadership of the world’s largest diplomatic bloc can protect you from the disapproval of mighty God Bless America?

    Impotent. Isolated. Disgraced. A laughingstock worldwide. USA! USA! USA!

  86. Attack in Tel Aviv: ‘Jewish girls do not go out with Blacks!’

    http://mondoweiss.net/2013/06/attack-jewish-blacks.html

  87. Ireland among countries where Snowden is seeking asylum

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/ireland-among-countries-where-snowden-is-seeking-asylum-1.1450212

    “A later post, which appeared early today on the WikiLeaks website, said Sarah Harrison, the group’s legal adviser in the Snowden matter, had “submitted by hand a number of requests for asylum and asylum assistance on behalf” of Mr Snowden to 19 countries. They were listed as Austria, Bolivia, Brazil, China, Cuba, Finland, France, Germany, India, Italy, Ireland, the Netherlands, Nicaragua, Norway, Poland, Russia, Spain, Switzerland and Venezuela.”

  88. Flaming June

    2 Jul, 2013 - 7:36 am

    Snowden’s letter to President Correa. I think Ecuador is his first choice for a safe haven. However is he withstanding the stress? Poor man.

    5:46am UK, Tuesday 02 July 2013

    Snowden Slams Obama As Asylum List Revealed

    The whistleblower accuses the US President of “political aggression” and “wheeling and dealing” in an effort to block his asylum

    http://news.sky.com/story/1110386/snowden-slams-obama-as-asylum-list-revealed

  89. Flaming June

    2 Jul, 2013 - 7:40 am

    Morsi. Am I bovvered?

    Egypt crisis: President Morsi rejects army ultimatum
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23140212#

    ‘Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi has rejected the army’s 48-hour ultimatum to resolve the country’s deadly crisis, saying it will only sow confusion.

    President Morsi insists he will continue with his own plans for national reconciliation, a presidential statement said early on Tuesday.

    The army has warned it will intervene if the government and its opponents fail to heed “the will of the people”.’

  90. Flaming June

    2 Jul, 2013 - 7:48 am

    On the BBC website, this question is posed.

    James Buchanan: Worst US president?

    James Buchanan is often saddled with the title of “the worst US president”, blamed for not averting the Civil War – but efforts are being made to reassess his legacy. How bad was he really?

    There’s a clue to the answer in a small photograph of the five
    most recent incumbents.
    http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/68397000/jpg/_68397796_buchanan-comp.jpg

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22946672

  91. Rafael Correa not considering Snowden asylum: ‘we helped him by mistake’

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/02/ecuador-rafael-correa-snowden-mistake

  92. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 7:55 am

    Fedup says, at 23h06 :

    “It is really funny to read through the Declaration of the Universal Human Rights, and to find the many articles that Cameron, and Obama governments have disregarded and flouted, yet the same chaps have the temerity of hectoring others on their none adherence to the same convention.”
    _____________

    Which is another way of saying that there is scarcely a single state which has not violated one or several of the articles of the Universal Declaration, is it not? So why the focus on the UK and USA?

    If you were to respond – as other posters have in the past – by saying “oh, but I am British and therefore care about what my country does”, then why do you single out the USA and remain silent about others?

    ***************

    La vita è bella, life is good!

  93. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 7:57 am

    “Rafael Correa not considering Snowden asylum: ‘we helped him by mistake’”
    ____________

    Please refer to my post at 23h51 yesterday :)

  94. Flaming June

    2 Jul, 2013 - 8:20 am

    Where is Shillary when we want a some answers?

    Was Benghazi Killing of Ambassador Stevens, 3 Others “Blowback” for Secret U.S. Assassinations?

    A new book on last year’s Benghazi attack in Libya concludes the killing of U.S. Ambassador Christoper Stevens and three others was in part blowback for a secret assassination operation run in North Africa by the Joint Special Operations Command and John Brennan, President Obama’s then-counterterrorism adviser, now director of the CIA. According to “Benghazi: The Definitive Report,” President Obama’s counterterrorism adviser, John Brennan, and JSOC commander, Admiral Bill McRaven, were running “off the books” unilateral operations in North Africa that were not coordinated through the Pentagon or other governmental agencies, including the CIA. Ambassador Stevens was reportedly never informed about these operations. We’re joined by the book’s authors, Brandon Webb and Jack Murphy, both veterans of U.S. special operations. Last week they published the contents of Ambassador Stevens’ diary from the days before the Benghazi attack on their website, SOFREP.com.

    Transcript

    This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

    http://www.democracynow.org/2013/7/1/was_deadly_benghazi_killing_of_ambassador

  95. http://www.eurasianet.org/node/67198

    Did Cameron’s visit soften the old bastard’s heart?

    Blairspinco ™ working flat out behind the scenes, there.

  96. “Please refer to my post at 23h51 yesterday”

    I can’t see one. I can see Hasbarista at 11:49 pm and Kibo at 11:52 pm. I don’t see you in between.

  97. errr…that should have been Cameron’s visit to Kazakhstan…and the answer is almost certainly not.

  98. Coffee!

  99. Two sugars, please, and an added shot of Red Bull, D. Ta.

  100. Coming up …

  101. @Dreoilin 7 07am

    “Ireland among countries where Snowden is seeking asylum”

    I do hope Snowden looks into Ireland’s record since 9/11 before accepting asylum in Ireland.

    Given “neutral” Ireland’s record of providing Shannon for the transit of millions of US soldiers, unknown numbers of kidnapped people, and unknown quantities of arms (US planes not checked), the odds are that asylum in that country would be short-lived.

    A glimpse of the kind of protectors he would be entrusting with his life to was given most recently in the response to Clare Daly in the Dail.

    In the meantime he continues to show just what the good ole USA really stands for right now.

    Now that the US citizenry know that they too are enemies of the state maybe that worm could turn?.

    Let’s hope courage is indeed contageous.

  102. Flaming June

    2 Jul, 2013 - 8:44 am

    President Maduro who is visiting Moscow says that Edward Snowden deserves the world’s protection. He says that his application for asylum is being given consideration.

  103. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 8:47 am

    @ Dreoilin

    sorry to have sent you off on a wild goose chase; my post was at 21h51 and not 21h51.

    A shot of grappa in mine, please.

  104. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 8:50 am

    @ Mary/April Showers/Flaming June :

    “President Maduro who is visiting Moscow says that..etc”
    _________

    Surely you mean President Maduro Moros ? (You know, like Henrique Capriles Radonski)

    *******************

    La vita è bella, life is good!

  105. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 8:52 am

    “Given “neutral” Ireland’s record of providing Shannon for the transit of millions of US soldiers,…etc, etc”
    __________

    Probably for Dreoilin, but when was that? Millions?

    ********************

    La vita è bella, life is good!

  106. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 8:54 am

    It’s not yet 10 o’clock BST but the nonsense level is aleady building up dangerously.

    Good job it’s not real smog.

  107. @Dreoilin. 7 00am

    “Attack in Tel Aviv”
    The letter at the end says it all.
    “This is the same reaction my grandmother faced in Germany when the Nazis would stop Germans from walking with her, because she was Jewish.” 

  108. “Given “neutral” Ireland’s record of providing Shannon for the transit of [millions of] US soldiers, unknown numbers of kidnapped people, and unknown quantities of arms (US planes not checked), the odds are that asylum in that country would be short-lived.”

    Ah sure I know. But the Irish Gov’t wouldn’t consider giving to him in a blue fit anyway. They just love the “special relationship” we have with America (based entirely, of course, on the vast numbers who fled to the U.S. during and after the famine + the large number of U.S. presidents with some Irish blood) and they just love trotting over to the WH on St Patrick’s Day with their ceremonial cut glass bowl of shamrock – bah! Stick it to the USA? Not likely.

  109. @Habba. 8 52am

    “Millions?”

    Yes Habba, Millions!
    That’s the correct term when you put a two before six zeros.

    We only know this because in Ireland (proud home of the Boycott) there are still people who care deeply enough to bear witness and count.

    “Ireland has played an active and despicable role in all these crimes against humanity by allowing over two million armed US troops to transit through Shannon airport.”

    Check it out here:

    http://www.shannonwatch.org/blog/more-non-violent-peace-action-shannon-airport

  110. Habbabkuk

    “If I were Julian Assange, I would be a worried man”

    I don’t think so. Correa has reiterated several times that he is on as good terms with Julian as ever.

  111. Kibo,

    I wouldn’t have known “millions” either. But I take your and shannonwatch’s word for it.

  112. Hidden costs of Afghanistan/Iraq still to appear:

    https://research.hks.harvard.edu/publications/workingpapers/citation.aspx?PubId=8956&type=WPN

    As for the US, so, presumably for the UK. The US borrowed to finance Afghanistan and Iraq. We borrowed to finance just about everything:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/oct/18/deficit-debt-government-borrowing-data

    “All political parties have faced their fair share of debt through the years – almost as if the economic climate has its own life independent of who is managing it.”

    Well, duh.

  113. Firefox says “Firefox can’t find the server at http://www.shannonwatch.org ” Pity.

    Apparently, in Ireland anyway, you can’t apply for asylum unless you’re already in the State. That’s a handy “out” for them.

    There is talk now that Russia may give Snowden temporary documents until he finds a country to take him in.

    There is anger in France, also, regarding EU trade negotiations with the U.S. It seems the U.S. has had the French negotiating documents for some time, by spying on the French. So now there is a move in France to suspend (their part in) EU trade negotiations and to offer asylum to Snowden. This has all come to me by telephone.

  114. Snowden has withdrawn his application for asylum in Russia. This is a developing situation though people are rushing to conclusions. He may yet end up in Venezuela and even Ecuador or Iceland. Point is how does he get out of the Catch 22 of being holed up in Moscow airport and having to be on territory to apply to another country. The Russians may yet allow him safe passage to an embassy in Moscow, else?

    The best would still be if China/Hong Kong were to grant him asylum — has he applied to Hong Kong, anyone?

  115. Give it another try, Dreoilin, it came up ok for me. Linked back from Shannonwatch site is this site:

    http://www.therenditionproject.org.uk/global-rendition/the-flights/index.html

    Plenty on here.

  116. “There is talk now that Russia may give Snowden temporary documents until he finds a country to take him in.”

    Looks like it’ll have to come to that, Dreolin.

    I wonder if Chavez was alive if that would’ve been a done deal?

  117. @ Arbed 1 Jul, 2013 – 4:46 pm
    “Ben at 4.39pm: I think the Guardian/Observer pulling that story is sheer embarrassment because Wayne Madsen is known for his very conspiratorial views, and hence not really a very credible source.”

    Why are conspiratorial sources not credible? Conspiracies, from Microsoft’s long-alleged gubmint software backdoor to Icke’s Jimmy Savile allegations are now proved true.

    @ Dreoilin 1 Jul, 2013 – 11:57 pm
    “Think I’ll head for the duvet. I keep thinking of Ed Snowden with only a hard floor to lie on, or perhaps a row of awkwardly-shaped seats. But at 30 he’ll cope better than I would. And his freedom is all that matters really.”

    President Putin has him in Stalin’s old quarters:
    http://englishrussia.com/images/bunker_for_stalin/8.jpg
    http://englishrussia.com/images/bunker_for_stalin/9.jpg

    Bottomless pots of caviar and black bread too. However if Master Spy Snowden craves pizza, chicken and Pepsi (CIA Moscow is on high alert to track pizza deliveries — they know Snowden’s favorite toppings) he hikes 10 miles through the tunnel to the Kremlin, covered in the special acoustic pillows he brought along from Hong Kong and his red hood of invisibility, lugging four(4)laptops with Uncle Sam’s most precious secrets. Should he get lost in the tunnels, he has a Boy Scout’s compass that all well-appointed spies now carry.

    Even senior conspiracists don’t fully note the absurdity. Thus far, Snowden hasn’t revealed any real secrets, only confirmed what was correctly assumed. He’s allowing The Guardian and The Washington Post to select what’s fit to print. How are those two institutions doing that except with advice from their respective security services?

    We could hope he’s made off with the master list of elitist child molesters and cannibals, but even that wouldn’t change much other than provide a few weeks of snickering gossip.

    I like how our own Big Organs of State and Party propaganda invariably remind us, “The revelations were the lead story on Russia Today, the Kremlin’s international propaganda TV channel.” :)

  118. Thanks, Komodo. I have it now.
    And I’m glad to be able to say that I was in Shannon, protesting, myself.

  119. Talking of loan-funded wars of aggression, future prospects for:

    http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Security-Industry/2013/07/01/Israel-seeks-50B-in-US-loans-to-buy-arms/UPI-49641372706630/

    $3Bn annually in mostly military aid isn’t enough, it seems.

  120. “President Putin has him in Stalin’s old quarters:
    http://englishrussia.com/images/bunker_for_stalin/8.jpg
    http://englishrussia.com/images/bunker_for_stalin/9.jpg

    Glad to think he has a bed, in that case. As for the .jpgs, they both say “403 forbidden”.

    Hey, spooks, get the F out of my laptop!

  121. “Our” rebels behead a priest in Syria, the Vatican News Agency confirms. Not a word on the BBC.

    Well, there’s Glastonbury and Wimbledon. You can’t cover all the news, can you?

  122. @Dreoilin 9 26am.

    Too bad your firefox turned awkward.

    Here’s most of the piece.

    “Sunday 7 October 2012 is the 11th anniversary of the US led invasion of Afghanistan. The subsequent war and occupation of Afghanistan probably cost the lives of over 100,000 Afghan people. The related and equally unjustified war against the people of Iraq probably cost well over one million Iraqi lives, but we will never know the exact figures because the aggressors deliberately “don’t do body counts”. These criminal wars have been compounded by unspeakable acts of torture and abuses of prisoners in Abu Graib, Guantanamo, Bagram and elsewhere.

    These acts of torture have more recently been replaced by targeted assassinations using special-forces and drone attack-aircraft. The term “targeted assassinations” is of course a misnomer because the vast majority of victims are innocent civilians, unintended so-called “collateral damage”.

    Ireland has played an active and despicable role in all these crimes against humanity by allowing over two million armed US troops to transit through Shannon airport. In addition vast amounts of war materials and dangerous munitions have passed through Shannon and over one thousand CIA associated flights have been refuelled at Shannon.

    In order to highlight and to try and prevent the on-going Irish participation in these abuses of human rights, and the failure of Gardai at Shannon to investigate Irish complicity in torture and other war crimes, a number of peace activists entered Shannon airport at about 4 pm on 7 October 2012, and placed banners beside the main runway at Shannon warning US military and CIA associated aircraft that they are not welcome at Shannon.

    Every precaution has been taken to ensure that this has been a non-violent peaceful action, and to ensure that there has been no risk of injury to any person. This is in marked contrast to the actions of the US troops who passed through Shannon, who have caused so much death and suffering across the Middle East and Central Asia, and some of whom have committed the most serious crimes imaginable.

    President Obama during his visit to Ireland earlier this year thanked the Irish Government for its complicity in these US wars by allowing the warmongers to transit through Shannon airport.

    Peace activists have tried repeatedly by various means to get the Gardai and other involved authorities to prevent this use of Shannon airport for such criminal activities. These efforts included the submission of a large amount of documentary evidence and information to the Gardai at Shannon on 18 March 2011. Seventeen months later a response was received from the Gardai stating that they had: “failed to uncover any evidence concerning breaches of Irish and international laws resulting from the transit of armed U.S. troops and CIA associated aircraft in connection with the wars and military aggression in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere, and in connection with the unlawful detention and torture of prisoners at Guantanamo prison and elsewhere.” This statement beggars belief, given that Judge Kearns of had ruled in the High Court in April 2003 that the Irish Government was in breach of International laws of neutrality, and that full details of this judgement were submitted to the Gardai at Shannon on 18 March 2011. If the Garda investigation into these matters failed to uncover any evidence into the matters complained of, this is most likely because the focus of any such investigation was to cover up any such evidence rather than to uncover it.”

    A sense of humanity still alive and kicking in the Emerald Isle.

    And isn’t Clare Daly just a gem?

  123. NR,

    If the US are playing a double agent game with Master Spy Snowden they must surely know that would be Putin and FSB’s first thought too.The Russians would make sure,as a basic matter of spook protocol,that he’d be kept quarantined in perpetuity from any sensitive Russian info and personnel.

    It makes no sense for the US to try such a clumsily basic play.

    They will know the Russians aint so dumb to fall for such a ham-fisted manouver.

    Where’s the angle?

  124. “Snowden is in the transit area of Sheremetyevo airport and has not crossed the Russian Federation’s border (onto Russian soil)… Russia has never extradited anyone, is not extraditing anyone and will not extradite anyone,” Peskov told reporters.”

    http://news.yahoo.com/snowden-transit-area-drops-russia-asylum-request-kremlin-082047503.html

    27 mins ago from Reuters

  125. @Dreoilin.

    Glad you found it while I was copying and pasting.

    Good on you bearing witness at Shannon.

  126. “Hey, spooks, get the F out of my laptop!”

    Probably just anti leaching measures.

    It’s bad form to post links to images on other sites on a forum, uses up their bandwidth for your benefit. Some sites block it.

  127. Re “403 forbidden”, clicking on the link doesn’t get you there, but copying the link location and pasting that into the search window does. It’s a server error, someone hasn’t set it up properly. Not spooks (this time)

  128. “Hey, spooks, get the F out of my laptop!”

    Hey, I was kidding

    Thanks for the advice Komodo

  129. “Re “403 forbidden”, clicking on the link doesn’t get you there, but copying the link location and pasting that into the search window does. It’s a server error, someone hasn’t set it up properly. Not spooks (this time)”

    No it isn’t a server error.

    Look folks there are nice people out there on the internet who put up interesting sites for our benefit. If you post links directly to images on their sites to a busy blog you are stealing a lot of their bandwidth. It’s theft and it’s no error when they block referrers.

  130. @ Dreoilin 2 Jul, 2013 – 10:00 am
    “Glad to think he has a bed, in that case. As for the .jpgs, they both say “403 forbidden”. Hey, spooks, get the F out of my laptop!”

    The links work for me. Any reason the Russians don’t want you to see the splendor of Stalin’s bunker? Re later comments — that’s weird, it works on a direct click for me.

    @ Jives 2 Jul, 2013 – 10:08 am
    “NR, If the US are playing a double agent game with Master Spy Snowden they must surely know that would be Putin and FSB’s first thought too.The Russians would make sure,as a basic matter of spook protocol,that he’d be kept quarantined in perpetuity from any sensitive Russian info and personnel.”

    “It makes no sense for the US to try such a clumsily basic play.”
    “They will know the Russians aint so dumb to fall for such a ham-fisted manouver.”
    “Where’s the angle?”

    I’ve got it! The NSA and Mossad put their new YuksNet virus on the four (4) laptops that Snowden is carrying, knowing the Chinese and Russians couldn’t resist extracting the alleged secrets. Too late now. When they connected to the laptops their own networks were hopelessly compromised. :)

    @ Dreoilin 2 Jul, 2013 – 10:09 am
    “Snowden is in the transit area of Sheremetyevo airport and has not crossed the Russian Federation’s border (onto Russian soil)… 27 mins ago from Reuters”

    They would say that, while they have him wined and dined and hooked up with the finest replacement pole dancers. :)

  131. Fred – It’s a known problem with that (proxy) server outfit: I did check. Incidentally, we could both be wrong (Shock! Horror!) – I just clicked on the link again, and it came up instantly…

  132. Thanks for all your c ‘n’ p-ing, Kibo.

    Everything just hung here. I only had email and the browser open so I don’t see why. But it’s a pain in the neck, so I’m going off for a while.

    ‘Only when the last river has been polluted, and the last tree been cut down, and the last fish been caught, will we realise we cannot eat money.’
    – Cree saying

  133. “It’s bad form to post links to images on other sites on a forum, uses up their bandwidth for your benefit. Some sites block it.”

    Most sites offering pictures welcome the hits, Fred. They’re there for the public to see. Picture of fruity lady with no clothes on here –
    (No it isn’t -Ed)

  134. No no no, Mr Snowden’s visit will no doubt encompass the sites of the cities purvey the beautiful countryside and beaches and dancing. The ballet of course.
    Samely but wonderful no doubt.

  135. “Fred – It’s a known problem with that (proxy) server outfit: I did check. Incidentally, we could both be wrong (Shock! Horror!) – I just clicked on the link again, and it came up instantly…”

    It would do, it’s only coming from your cache not from the site. You already accessed it from a direct link.

  136. Not “Iran’s Hezbollah” then? Let’s see what sort of courage the Bulgarians can muster and reject the ludicrous claims of Hezbollah terrorism from Israel, for which they alone are responsible.

    http://forward.com/articles/179626/jewish-ex-interior-minister-to-be-investigated-in/

  137. Duh! You’re right. In which case what I said before. The server software is nginx, and there is a reported problem with its index access. This is fixable at the server end.

  138. “Duh! You’re right. In which case what I said before. The server software is nginx, and there is a reported problem with its index access. This is fixable at the server end.”

    The server gets the exact same http request when you copy and paste the link as when you click on it. Only difference is if you click on the link there will be a referral address in the header. If it was an indexing problem both would fail.

  139. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 11:54 am

    @ Dreoilin

    “Habbabkuk

    “If I were Julian Assange, I would be a worried man”

    I don’t think so. Correa has reiterated several times that he is on as good terms with Julian as ever.”
    ___________

    Correa may be more bluster and less Castro. One may be on ‘good terms’ with someone, but I’m not sure how bankable that is.

    Anyway, we shall see.

    Should I be wrong, I will give permission for a limited number of Excellences to chuck a few more buckets of s**t over me; should the opposite turn out to be the case, I promise to crow.

  140. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 12:00 pm

    re Shannon and the American millions

    I note that the “millions” claimed on here by someone or other has now morphed into “over two million”.

    Honey, I shrunk the kids! :)

    Anyway, that’s what Shannonwatch claims. Given where they’re coming from, I think I’d prefer to treat that ‘info’ with some caution.

    Perhaps as solid as the claims, made at the time, that “thousands” of Palestinians were killed in Gaza during Operation Cast Lead….

    ***************

    La vita è bella, life is good!

  141. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 12:11 pm

    @ Komodo (09h16)

    “Hidden costs of Afghanistan/Iraq still to appear:…etc”
    __________

    I’m glad you said that because it reminded me to ask tyou if you’d had any further thoughts about how UK govt expenditure (annual, Komodo, annual)on pensions, social security and the NHS (which Kempe reminded us is £201 billion) compared with UK govt expenditure on defence. Have you?

    You rightly go on to say :

    “We borrowed to finance just about everything:…etc”

    Which is correct and which is also why everyone should applaud the present govt for trying to reduce the national debt or at least slow down its runaway increase. (It may of course be that you are in favour of saddling future generations with even more debt)

    ***************

    La vita è bella, life is good!

  142. Fred, My impression from the site I looked at was that the index failure could have been invoked by an embedded link while it would work from the browser address bar. But no matter – I don’t buy your suggestion either. Out.

  143. http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=610091

    There’s oil in them thar fishing grounds.

  144. Flaming June

    2 Jul, 2013 - 12:52 pm

    Stop and search to be used more sparingly.

    Stop-and-search powers: Public to have say
    Stop and- search in progress People should not be stopped because of their ethnicity, Theresa May is to say

    The public will be consulted on changing how police in England and Wales use stop-and-search powers, the home secretary is due to announce.

    About 1.2 million stops took place in 2011-12 – but only 9% led to an arrest.

    Theresa May is expected to say stop-and-search powers must be used more carefully to ensure people are not stopped because of their ethnicity.

    /..http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23140505

    She is speaking now following Cameron on Afghanistan.

  145. Flaming June

    2 Jul, 2013 - 12:56 pm

    Back to topic, I heard on Radio 4 this morning that landlords will now be required by the Border Agency to check on their tenants in case any illegal immigrants have slipped through the net.

  146. Flaming June

    2 Jul, 2013 - 1:01 pm

    Don’t know if this has been posted as there have so many posts this morning. I have been doing my aguafit to the sound of 60s pop! Took me back.

    The BBC probably enjoyed putting this up and some here will be pleased.

    2 July 2013 Last updated at 12:13

    Edward Snowden’s asylum options narrow

    Edward Snowden is wanted in the US on charges of leaking secrets Fugitive intelligence leaker Edward Snowden has suffered a setback in his attempts to avoid extradition to the US, as a number of countries have rejected his requests for asylum.

    Eight European states including Spain and Germany said asylum applicants had to be on their soil.

    India has also said no.

    Mr Snowden, who is at Moscow airport, sent requests to 21 countries in total, Wikileaks said, but he later withdrew a request to Russia.

    /..
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23145887

  147. “landlords will now be required by the Border Agency to check on their tenants in case any illegal immigrants have slipped through the net.”

    The ones who are housing poor immigrants in sheds in their back gardens (minus proper bathrooms, heating, or fridges) will be unlikely to do that. It’s far too lucrative for them.

  148. The headline in the Irish Times reads

    Venezuala looking like whistle-blower’s last hope

    But I think I counted about 10 countries which are listed as either “status unknown” or “he’d have to be here to make a request”. So if the Russians give him travel documents, he could presumably “be here” in any of those cases. And “Bolivian President Evo Morales told Russian state-run RT television today that his country is ready to consider Snowden’s request.”

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/venezuala-looking-like-whistle-blower-s-last-hope-1.1450301

  149. Flaming June –

    can’t even open PressTV at present, but u can find these by doing search of the headlines:

    PressTV – Is Eutelsat CEO an Israeli?
    Nov 5, 2012 – Eutelsat is a person, not a company. Eutelsat says it is European, but it is actually Israeli. French sounding ‘Michel de Rosen’ runs Eutelsat, an Israeli citizen, company with Israeli stockholders, a company long dictated to by extremist groups within Israel, the militant ultra-nationalists of the Likudist regime of Netanyahu.”

    PressTV – Eutelsat Israeli chief behind attack on Iran channels
    Feb 24, 2013 – In the letter obtained by Press TV, the Franco-Israeli Eutelsat chief has warned satellite companies to remove Iranian channels or prepare to …

  150. Flaming June

    2 Jul, 2013 - 1:20 pm

    A weird one here. Was it a Mossad op?

    July 2, 2013 Tuesday

    Ex-Argentina Jewish gov’t official to be probed in bombing

    By JTA

    BUENOS AIRES, Argentina — The Jewish ex-interior minister of Argentina will be investigated for his ties to the AMIA Jewish center bombing.

    The Buenos Aires Federal Appeals Court last week ordered the probe of Carlos Vladimir Corach in connection with an illegal payment of $400,000 to Carlos Telleldin, an auto mechanic who was among those charged in the 1994 attack that left 85 dead and hundreds wounded.

    Telleldin, who allegedly provided the car bomb that blew up the Jewish center, has not been indicted.

    The three Appeals Court justices called on Federal Judge Ariel Lijo to investigate “the existence of concrete allegations involving Carlos Vladimir Corach, which have not been investigated until now” regarding the illegal payment to Telleldin.

    Corach was interior minister during the Carlos Menem government in the 1990s. He was responsible for obtaining the building for the Holocaust Museum of Buenos Aires and was the main speaker at its inauguration.

  151. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 1:21 pm

    “Back to topic, I heard on Radio 4 this morning that landlords will now be required by the Border Agency to check on their tenants in case any illegal immigrants have slipped through the net.”
    _____________

    And why not.

    Of course, the task of combatting illegal immigration would be made immeasurably easier if there were an identity card system in the UK.

    In all of the countries I’ve had the pleasure and privilege of frequenting, you need ID from the country in question to do most things associated with residing there as opposed to just visiting (eg rental agreements, buying a house, opening a bank account, accessing state benefits, enrolling your children in school, etc etc). If you can’t produce that, then you will probably not be reported to the competent authorities but you will be unable to access the thing you wanted. Not a perfect system, but it sure makes life more difficult for illegal immigrants and, for the matter, villains in general.

    In most continental countries

  152. Cast Lead

    One and a Half Million People Imprisoned
    27 Dec 2009

    Between 27 December 2008 and 18 January 2009, the Israeli military carried out an attack on the Gaza Strip named Operation Cast Lead. The magnitude of the harm to the population was unprecedented: 1,385 Palestinians were killed, 762 of whom did not take part in the hostilities. Of these, 318 were minors under age 18. More than 5,300 Palestinians were wounded, of them over 350 seriously so. Israel also caused enormous damage to residential dwellings, industrial buildings, agriculture and infrastructure for electricity, sanitation, water, and health, which was on the verge of collapse prior to the operation. According to UN figures, Israel destroyed more than 3,500 residential dwellings and 20,000 people were left homeless.

    http://www.btselem.org/gaza_strip/20091227_a_year_to_castlead_operation

    Rocket attacks killed three Israeli civilians and one member of the Israeli security forces, and wounded dozens. Nine soldiers were killed within the Gaza Strip, four by friendly fire. More than 100 soldiers were wounded, one critically and 20 moderately to seriously.

    This subject is found in wikipedia under “Gaza War” — I don’t call that a “war”. I call it a vicious punishment attack. No wonder it’s been annotated:

    “The neutrality of this article is disputed.”

  153. Oops, forgot my inverted commas …

  154. Flaming June

    2 Jul, 2013 - 1:30 pm

    Bit of a barney going on with the landlords immigrant check proposal. My money is on the heavyweight in the blue corner!

    UK government to back down on plans to make landlords police immigration
    14 June 2013

    For concise and recent immigration information watch our news.

    The UK government has backtracked on a major policy initiative designed to combat illegal immigration. In March, the UK’s prime minister, David Cameron, announced that all landlords were to be required to check the immigration status of all tenants before allowing them to rent flats. They would only be legally allowed to let to tenants with permission to be in the UK. Any landlord found not to have carried out the test would be liable for a hefty fine, Mr Cameron said.

    However, since then, Communities Secretary Eric Pickles has tried to water down the proposals. It has been reported that there were heated scenes in cabinet while Mr Pickles told the prime minister that most landlords in the UK are individuals, not large companies and would find the imposition of yet more ‘red tape’ (or bureaucratic requirements) difficult to cope with. He said that there were likely to be legal challenges to the proposed checks.

    /..
    http://www.workpermit.com/news/2013-06-14/uk-government-to-back-down-on-plans-to-make-landlords-police-immigration

  155. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 1:36 pm

    @ Dreoilin – further to illegal immigration :

    “The ones who are housing poor immigrants in sheds in their back gardens (minus proper bathrooms, heating, or fridges) will be unlikely to do that. It’s far too lucrative for them.”
    ______________

    You are probably right. But then they should be prosecuted if ever discovered in any way. It is an offence under UK law to assist someone else in criminal activity. Nobody seems to mind employers of illegal immigrants (or human traffickers)being prosecuted if they are found out and it is difficult to understand why landlords should not face similar prosecution.

    =========

    More generally (and I’m certainly not aiming this at you), I sometimes get the impression from the tone and content of posts on this subject that many Eminences don’t believe in immigration control and are not at all fussed by illegal immigration. I don’t recall ever having seen them, in those posts, confirming that they oppose illegal immigration. Whether their attitude is based on human feeling for the illegal immigrants or an blind hatred for the govt and all its works is, of course, a question only they can answer.

  156. “Ex-Argentina Jewish gov’t official to be probed in bombing”

    Where did you get that, Mary? You didn’t give a source. Was it Medialens?

  157. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 1:40 pm

    Hey, Dreoilin, you know perfectly well what the point of my reference to Cast Lead was. Play it straight!

  158. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 1:42 pm

    ““Ex-Argentina Jewish gov’t official to be probed in bombing”

    Where did you get that, Mary? You didn’t give a source. Was it Medialens?”
    ____________

    Probably that well-known website “Sniff out the evil Jew behind everything.org”

  159. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 1:45 pm

    No, I was jesting (a little). The source is at the top, it’s JTA, which I think is thre Jewish Telegraph Agency or something like that

  160. What do you mean, “Play it straight”?
    Find out how many US soldiers have passed through Shannon?

    Since the Irish authorities won’t even board the planes, as they are fully entitled – and even obliged – to do, and since presumably the US doesn’t provide numbers and inventories, I have no idea where I would be supposed to go to find out.
    I see no reason to doubt Shannonwatch anyway.

    “You are probably right. But then they should be prosecuted if ever discovered in any way.”

    The back garden sheds I’m referring to were featured in a TV programme, probably on Channel 4. I hope they passed on the details.

  161. http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1372756125.html

    ——————————-

    “Probably that well-known website “Sniff out the evil Jew behind everything.org”

    LOL! Sorry, Mary, but that was funny. :)

  162. “You are probably right. But then they should be prosecuted if ever discovered in any way. It is an offence under UK law to assist someone else in criminal activity.”

    These so-called landlords don’t care what people’s status is. And when I said I hoped Channel 4 passed on the details, I was talking about prosecution of these “landlords”. And I didn’t mention illegal immigrants, I said, “poor immigrants”.

  163. Flaming June –

    can’t even open Press TV at the moment, but from search results:

    PressTV – Is Eutelsat CEO an Israeli?
    Nov 5, 2012 – Eutelsat is a person, not a company. Eutelsat says it is European, but it is actually Israeli. French sounding ‘Michel de Rosen’ runs Eutelsat, an Israeli citizen, company with Israeli stockholders, a company
    long dictated to by extremist groups within Israel, the militant
    ultra-nationalists of the Likudist regime of Netanyahu.” Gordon Duff (of Veterans Today) told Press TV…

    PressTV – Eutelsat Israeli chief behind attack on Iran channels
    Feb 24, 2013 – In the letter obtained by Press TV, the Franco-Israeli
    Eutelsat chief has warned satellite companies to remove Iranian channels or
    prepare to …

  164. Not “Iran’s Hezbollah” then? Let’s see what sort of courage the Bulgarians can muster and reject the ludicrous claims of Hezbollah terrorism from Israel, for which they alone are responsible.

    The Argentinians are no longer playing the Banana republic game, and are bent on sorting their problematic contracted out personnel. Bulgarians have also made known their findings; the bus bombing had nothing to do with Iran or Lebanon! Although, as yet they have not pointed fingers at anyone else, unlike the Argentinians.

    Menem was always a bell hop for the powers be, he literally destroyed Argentina.

    – – – – –

    $3Bn annually in mostly military aid isn’t enough, it seems.

    Note the convoluted money go around scheme, everybody gets their cut, and the Amen corner (US Congress) is kept harrumphing to the AIPAC approved sound bites.

    Take note of the number of times “Iran” is mentioned, and the number of times “attack on Iran” is inferred, implied and mentioned. The shitty little strip of land is always laying claim to being pieceful; a piece of Palestine (rather a big piece), a piece of Golan, a piece of Sheba Farms, a piece of Sinai, a piece of Kurdistan, a piece of Iraq, a piece of Iran, a piece of the action in US, a piece of the action in UK, a piece of Darfur, apiece of…… Why oh why everybody is against the little armed to the teeth with nuclear and thermonuclear bombs (these are not weapons of mass destruction) little shitty strip of land?

    Jonathan Schanzer, executive director of the Foundation for the Defense of the Democracies in Washington, said the U.S. package conformed to an Israeli wish-list presented to the Pentagon that included some items that were not discussed publicly, presumably because they were intended for an assault on Iran.

    – – – – – –

    ROFL

    Does anyone ever follow the links on this board?

    – – – – –

    Just for the confusion:

    How do you like these apples.

    Ease up on the hate mate!

    Is this a cutesy threatening with menaces?

  165. oops just saw my comment to Flaming June had gone thru already. i was having trouble opening Craig’s site as well as PressTV. apologies.

    while obama promises a bright future for “Africa”, this is the best analysis of the Egyptian protests i’ve heard:

    Sharif Abdel Kouddous: Millions Protesting Morsi Show Egyptian Revolution Still Going Strong
    http://www.democracynow.org/2013/7/1/sharif_abdel_kouddous_millions_protesting_morsi

    don’t know if u know Morris, but his manner gets him some poignant answers, especially regarding Libya. everything said in this interview says so much about Libya, Egypt, Syria & even Mali, etc. in other words, it’s about what Obama is actually DOING TO Africa:

    Morris: Libya Update June 29/30 – Phone Call
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKpIzod7xKQ&feature=youtu.be

  166. The little Qatar has been enjoying “punching above their weight” (perching on the Uncle Sam’s shoulders of course), however all this talk of Arab Spring has finally got to the little punchers home shores: UAE court sentences 64 to jail on charges of planning coup, report says

    On Tuesday, the Federal Supreme Court handed 56 people prison sentences of ranging between seven and 10 years, and eight others were sentenced to 15 years in prison in absentia.

    The defendants, including lawyers, university students and professors, were arrested between March and December 2012. They had denied the charges and said that they have been abused in prison, a claim the government denied.

    Human rights groups have criticized the trial, saying it included “flagrant flaws.” They also alleged that some of the defendants had been subjected to mistreatment in prison including torture.

    The UAE has been cracking down on activists inspired by the Arab revolutions that have been sweeping the region since 2011.

    The very epitome of freedom and democracy won’t you agree?

  167. Tech Savage

    2 Jul, 2013 - 2:49 pm

    “Ex-Argentina Jewish gov’t official to be probed in bombing”

    Where did you get that, Mary? You didn’t give a source. Was it Medialens?

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/06/pandering-to-racism/comment-page-4/#comment-415954

    Probably that well-known website “Sniff out the evil Jew behind everything.org”

    What a sad little Sayanim you really are, trying to deflect all criticism away from your beloved Zionist paymasters, it is actually from the Jewish media, who appear to be able to say things that are verboten in Europe and the US, as you have proved with your infantile knee-jerk comment.

  168. Fred is correct about these Russian jpegs upthread. They are blocked based on the referrer (ie which page they were on – in this case Craig’s blog)

    Everytime you click an external (to the site you are on) link on a webpage (or the webpage displays the image from another site on the page itself), the remote site is told by your browser what page the link/image was imbedded in. Some sites intentionally block this “hot-linking” so you have to actually visit the site to see the images. It is even possible to substitute another image. For example an image could be served saying “Hot-linking from craigmurray.org.uk not allowed”.

    I run smart-referrer add-on for firefox with the default of “send the url you are going to as referrer”. With that setting enabled I can click on these links and they display directly from this page without having to visit the site. The site has no idea I an reading the link from this page. Avalable at https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/smart-referer/

    Most web users are not aware that the destination link they click on normally knows where they came from.

  169. “Iran Minister of Culture and Islamic Guidance Mohammad Hosseini says Tehran will take the necessary legal measures to counter the Western satellite companies’ move to pull the plug on Iranian channels.”

    More
    http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/07/02/311885/iran-to-take-legal-action-on-media-ban/

  170. Tech Savage

    2 Jul, 2013 - 2:56 pm

    ‘Probably that well-known website “Sniff out the evil Jew behind everything.org’

    A thinly disguised accusation of being an anti-Semite levelled at a Mary there, that’s how you know this story has the chops, unlike Hababkak, who is getting increasingly blatant in his role (much to my amusement).

  171. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 3:10 pm

    @ Dreoilin

    You post in good faith (I’m sure of that) and so I am happy to answer/clarify.

    1/. “Play it straight” : I meant that I saw your recap of the Gaza casualities during Cast Lead as somehow contesting my illustration, made in the context of the Shannon exchange, of how certain sources ‘with an interest’ make a habit of inflating numbers. But I admit is is possible to read your posts as in fact supporting what I said about the number of Gaza deaths. Is that how you meant it?

    2/. “Immigrants and landlords” – you are right, I’d overlooked that you said “poor” and not “illegal”. Even so, though, assisting illegal immigrants is illegal, whereas – unfortunately – screwing the poor is not (usually). As to passing on the details, I guess the reporters would not do so (as a matter of principle (protection of sources, etc) – whether or not the victims were illegal immigrants.
    (Yes, I understood you meant prosecuting the landlords and not the tenants).

    Will you allow two PSs, one on each.

    PS1. I wonder what Shannonwatch’s methodology was? I suppose one would have to know how many US military have served in Iraq and Afghanistan since the beginning of these two wars and also know more about the number and geography of the various transport routes.

    PS2. You’ll have noticed from one of Mary’s latest that she seems very pleased with the idea that the govt might drop/be forced to drop its ideas on landlords wrt illegal immigrants. One really has to wonder about the mindset of someone like that: if she said “I am against because (eg) it won’t work” (as you do) or because it violates someone’s human rights, ” or whatever, then fair enough. But she doesn’t and so gives the strong impression that she either against anything this govt does as a matter of principle or that she thinks that illegal immigration is just dandy.

  172. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 3:15 pm

    @ Tech Savage

    “it is actually from the Jewish media,..”
    __________

    Yes indeed. As I pointed out at 13h45 (pls refer).

    Please be less careless.

    **************

    La vita è bella, life is GOOD!

  173. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 3:24 pm

    @ Tech Savage

    “A thinly disguised accusation of being an anti-Semite levelled at a Mary there, that’s how you know this story has the chops, unlike Hababkak, who is getting increasingly blatant in his role (much to my amusement).”
    _____________

    Has to be thin , laddie, if I want someone as obtuse as you to pick it up. And it’s something which has been noticed and commented on by other infinitely more respectable posters by me.

    But I’m happy to hear that, despite appearances (you seem quite exercised), you’re amused. See this as my contribution to your own personal “La vita è bella, life is good!”

  174. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 3:25 pm

    “..than me.” :)

  175. Fair enough, Anon. An ounce of explanation is worth a ton of dogmatism, thanks. Yes, it could be intentional.

  176. Being an illegal immigrant is not good enough reason to rat out a person to the authorities. There are many complex reasons for people finding themselves in odd situations including being present in another country without permission. Snitching on them can have bad side effects on innocent people.

    If that person is of good character, I would hope that people would let the man go about his business without causing him trouble. But if he’s a known thief, parasite or violent offender, you can fire his arse out of a cannon with my blessings.

  177. “We are the Borg. Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Resistance is futile.”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/video/2013/jul/02/google-glass-video-review

    Just wait until they link them in to a real-time Google Earth street-view.

  178. “But I admit is is possible to read your posts as in fact supporting what I said about the number of Gaza deaths. Is that how you meant it?”

    No, Habbabkuk. People talk about thousands of ‘casualties’, and in my experience, they often mean both killed and wounded.
    1,385 Palestinians were killed, and more than 5,300 were wounded. That’s probably where the “thousands” comes from.

    “Even so, though, assisting illegal immigrants is illegal, whereas – unfortunately – screwing the poor is not (usually).”

    Charging for accommodation that is way, way, way, below par, and doesn’t comply with the most basic requirements, is sick and should be criminalized if it’s not already. The programme I saw is mentioned here:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/22/sub-standard-private-housing

    “I wonder what Shannonwatch’s methodology was?”

    I have no idea. But I intend to find out. I’m curious myself. They give some figures here
    http://www.shannonwatch.org/sites/shannonwatch.org/files/ShannonFactsheet.pdf

    Some information is from the Dept for Transport. For example, ‘Permits Issued to Carry Munitions of War
    through Ireland or Irish Airspace’

  179. An interview with lying UKIP toad Nige, the Farrage, hollering away against the daemonic Wind turbines, Don quixote eat you heart out, he says he wants to emulate the Lib Dems?
    He has a penchant for posh Tories and bankers just like him, he loves the EU for the money it brings to UKIP and despite so desperately wanting out, he has a massive EU campaign plan for next year….

    http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/politics/ukip_leader_nigel_farage_wants_to_emulate_lib_dem_success_in_bid_to_hold_balance_of_power_at_westminster_1_2258183

  180. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 4:17 pm

    @ Dreoilin

    Sorry to have to come back again. I know that people talk about “thousands of casualties”, but I was specifically referring to the outraged posts and comments ommediately after Cast Lead that talked about “thousabds of DEATHS”. They were many and they turned out to have been exaggerating wildly (as the reference you supplied shows yet again) Thousands of deaths it was they claimed, not thousands of casualties.

  181. Tech Savage

    2 Jul, 2013 - 4:18 pm

    “Yes indeed. As I pointed out at 13h45 (pls refer).”

    That was AFTER the comment I was referring to. My God,the chutzpah! Do you have no shame at all? You were trying to pretend you were joking for those less familiar with your tactics, but you weren’t. You call people anti-Semite for despising a despotic shit-hole like Israel while you cheer on the destruction of Syria.

  182. @Habba.12 00pm

    Ok Habba you win.

    Number two now reclassified as singular.

    Thousands of years of mathematical discovery and semantics down the pan.

    Oh! But of course, we’re in Habba-world where all is deffinitely not as it seems.

    And all just so Habba can score a point, cosy in the knowledge that not that many US soldiers passed through a neutral country’s airport on the way to shock and awe. What’s all the fuss about helping two million armed soldiers into the killing fields?

    HTF can millions morph into millions?

    Times like these I really miss Sofia.

    Why am I bothering at all. More the fool me.

    Now I want to get back and read the interesting stuff.

  183. “There are many complex reasons for people finding themselves in odd situations …”

    That’s true. I know someone whose visa in the U.S. was about to run out when he was a witness to a horrible road accident at 2am. He was told by the police not to move a muscle until they had taken a statement from him, and that he might be needed as a witness in court. The person who was injured (brain damaged) was an off-duty police officer. Needless to say, the visa running out became almost irrelevant. Rules can always be bent, if the “authorities” need or want to bend them.

  184. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 4:29 pm

    @ Dreoilin

    And just as an afterthought:

    I should be more impressed by the frequent posts on the number of casualties inflicted by the Israelis on the Gazans, and other examples of Israeli behaviour over the last 50 years, if I thought for one moment that the commenters concerned were themselves even half as concerned by the infinitely higher numbers of people who were killed, executed, imprisoned, tortured and otherwise had their lives ruined over the same period by the leaders of Syria, Egypt (all the way back to Colonel Nasser), Iraq (Saddam Hussein and illustrious predecessors like mad General Kassem), Libya, Jordan (both the boy king and his late father Hussein…not to mention the wonderful regimes in Algeria, Morocco and Tunisia.

    (And to those who try and weasel out of this by saying “”oh, but they did it to their own people”, I would reply that….human rights are human rights).

    Not too many peeps about all of that, eh, when people qre sounding off about Israel. And they didn’t even have the excuse of being under threat, real or imagined.

  185. “They were many and they turned out to have been exaggerating wildly (as the reference you supplied shows yet again) Thousands of deaths it was they claimed, not thousands of casualties.”

    1) Then quote me some of these, and link to them please.

    2) Wasn’t the deaths and injuries toll as given by B’Tselem horrendous, Habbabkuk? Against a mostly civilian population who were effectively locked in?? And wasn’t it entirely out of proportion to the force ranged against the Israelis – and the puny weapons they had at their disposal? Talk about shooting fish in a barrel … it was disgusting.

  186. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 4:39 pm

    @ Tech Savage (16h18)

    Yes, it was after – all of 3 minutes after.

    So don’t be a chump and discuss the real issues.
    ________

    And, by the way, I call those who are anti-Jewish, anti-Jewish. As I said, others have noticed and commented and you can’t get round that, can you.

  187. @Habba. Allthefeckingtime today.

    I just read the interesting stuff but noticed your little problem with the meaning of numbers resurfacing over other issues.

    So, since I am feeling kind today I found this website to help you.

    http://www.edurite.com/kbase/free-online-math-for-dummies-online

    I’m sure you’ll like it because it says “erudite”

    Now for the links.

    Yes Fedup, this dummy clicks most of them.

  188. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 4:50 pm

    @ Dreoilin

    “1) Then quote me some of these, and link to them please.

    2) Wasn’t the deaths and injuries toll as given by B’Tselem horrendous, Habbabkuk? Against a mostly civilian population who were effectively locked in?? And wasn’t it entirely out of proportion to the force ranged against the Israelis – and the puny weapons they had at their disposal? Talk about shooting fish in a barrel … it was disgusting.”
    ___________

    I can quote you nothing from this blog because, as you know, I wasn’t following it then. But there were lots of accusation like that out there, believe me. Do you really expect me to have kept a list in the expectation that a few years afterwards I would need to reply to a question like yours?

    Re. your second para, horrible as any event like that is, your talk of shooting fish in a barrel is emotional and not rational. The operation went on for several days. Had that been their intention, the Israelis would have been able to kill and injure, and would have killed and injured, many, many more people than they did. As to the proportionality, it is clear that they wanted to teach Hamas a lesson. Perhaps Hamas should have anticipated that, in the same way as it should have – and did, of course – appreciate that the Gazan population is mainly civilian and enclosed.

  189. Habbu-Clown; “Not too many peeps about all of that, eh, when people qre sounding off about Israel. And they didn’t even have the excuse of being under threat, real or imagined.”

    Does this ring a bell ?

    “I think the reason people don’t post on such issues is simply that these things are universally condemned and hardly worth the effort of pointing out on a forum where it can be tacitly assumed most people are on the same page.”

    You have proved that you cannot engage in a rational debate, mostly by ignoring points that are put to you as if they don’t exist; if you were to “man up” & argue your position against counter points instead of ducking them, then you wouldn’t appear as ridiculous as you do; then again if you hold ridiculous positions, you will always appear ridiculous !

  190. Millions of American forces through Shannon Airport on route to mass slaughter, in service of Israel:

    “Since the U.S. went to war in Afghanistan in 2001 and Iraq in 2003, about 2.5 million members of the Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force, Coast Guard and related Reserve and National Guard units have been deployed in the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, according to Department of Defense data. Of those, more than a third were deployed more than once.”

    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/03/14/185880/millions-went-to-war-in-iraq-afghanistan.html

  191. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 4:55 pm

    @ anyone fussed

    I shall post as often as I deem appropriate and as often as I please (following the example of others).

    And the posts will remain, as ever, focused, to the point, and polite. Those from me, at least.

    Those who don’t like it can just scroll past.

  192. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 4:59 pm

    @ Herbie

    Those figures and those of Shannonwatch (if the latter are correct) would therefore mean that about two thirds went through Shannon.

    What other routes were used, I wonder. Perhaps Dreoilin will come across something about that and/or Shannonwatch’s methodology.

  193. “(And to those who try and weasel out of this by saying “”oh, but they did it to their own people”, I would reply that…human rights are human rights).”

    Yes, human rights are human rights. But Israel is aligned with the United States, and so is the UK. All under the umbrella of the “West” (or what the U.S. loves to call the “international community”). And Ireland to a large extent comes under that umbrella too. So, in effect, people here are talking about atrocities carried out “in our names”. And that is just not acceptable to most people here.

    I doubt very much if anyone here has a problem condemning atrocities anywhere, including Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Libya, Jordan, Algeria, Morocco or Tunisia. And how many of the regimes that you’ve listed were being propped up by the United States for its own reasons? How many of them were used by the United States to torture “renditioned” prisoners? The same United States that then turned on some of those regimes, in the guise of ‘humanitarian intervention’, and left the ordinary people much worse off?

    I have only one word to describe the United States, Habbabkuk. Hypocrites. Writ large.

  194. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 5:07 pm

    Macky

    I’m pleased to see that you’ve returned from Paris in fine pugnacious form.

    But as you surely know, France was the spiritual capital of the Enlightenment and is the country of the subtle and reasoned argument.

    I am therefore less pleased to see that none of these fine qualities appears to have rubbed off on you.

    Perhaps you should spend a little longer there?

    ***************

    La vie est belle, ze life eez good!

  195. In killing over one thousand Palestinians in Gaza and maiming many more, Habby says:

    “they (Israel) wanted to teach Hamas a lesson”

    which is of course a crime against humanity

    No wonder Israel and the US are threatening all sorts of retaliation should the Palestinian Authority pursue its desire to join the ICC.

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/06/28/the-white-house-threatens-to-end-aid-if-palestine-joins-the-icc/

    The thugs and criminals of Israel and the US quite simply don’t want to be subject to any independent law whatsoever, as of course you’d expect from criminals.

  196. Habby-Clown; “Had that been their intention, the Israelis would have been able to kill and injure, and would have killed and injured, many, many more people than they did. As to the proportionality, it is clear that they wanted to teach Hamas a lesson. Perhaps Hamas should have anticipated that, in the same way as it should have – and did, of course – appreciate that the Gazan population is mainly civilian and enclosed.”

    So in the habby-clown mindset;

    Any mass killer can claim as an excusing or mitigating factor that he could have murder many more.

    Massive mass slaughter of overwhelmingly innocents & children, is rational if it’s to “teach a lesson”

    Finally to provide further suspicion of his motives here, he concludes with the classic Zionist Apologist line of blaming the victims.

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