Pandering to Racism

by craig on June 26, 2013 1:52 pm in Uncategorized

Here in Ghana people are stunned by the announcement that a bond of £3,000 will have to be submitted by visa applicants to the UK, redeemable on return.

It is unpleasant for a nation to be singled out as comprised of particularly untrustworthy individuals against whom special measures are needed.  Theresa May appears quite deliberately to be singling out countries whose citizens are normally black or brown – India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Ghana and Nigeria.  They are all citizens with extremely close ties to the UK.  For example, all of those countries supplied large numbers of men to British armed forces in two World Wars; with little resulting gratitude.

The true level of Britain’s regard for the Commonwealth is disclosed in all its arrogance; citizenship of the Commonwealth countries with the longest link to the UK will become a positive disadvantage in visa application.  Israeli settlers living in Occupied Palestine on the West Bank, incidentally, will still be allowed to enter the UK without any visa at all, despite membership of neither Commonwealth nor EU.  Paradoxical, isn’t it?

The measure shows the arrogant British disdain for these countries – of which India pre-eminently but also Ghana are fast growing and important trading partners.  Undoubtedly Ghana will retaliate with measures which hurt British businesses; many of my good friends are senior Ghanaian politicians, and they are all furious.  The rhetoric the British employ about transformation from colonial status to a modern partnership of equals is exposed for the tissue of lies it has always been.  This is a straightforward racist measure, aimed at securing the racist vote to the Tories.

Not does it make any sense.  If you are intending to enter the UK under false pretences, and have the intent illegally to settle and start a new life there, then £3,000 is scarcely a deterrent given the substantial economic gains you intend to make over the long period you intend to stay.  It will rather seem a good investment; people will find the money.  The people it will deter are those who never intended to overstay.  The extra cash upfront,  to the businessman for a business trip, for the student coming to study, for the tourist will drive them to go elsewhere, to the UK’s net loss.

More cruelly it will deter decent middle class people from coming to see grandchildren in the holidays, from going to the niece’s wedding,  from going to graduation.  Those things will become the prerogative of the wealthy, those with plenty of cash to spare.

This does nothing to deter illegal immigration.  It merely demonstrates populist racism, demonstrates contempt for some of the UK’s best-disposed friends, and demonstrates that the government thinks the right to travel is only for the rich.  It is contemptible.

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932 Comments

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  1. “Those figures and those of Shannonwatch (if the latter are correct) would therefore mean that about two thirds went through Shannon.”

    Yes, I was wondering about that too. I’m going to email Shannonwatch (when I get out of here!)

  2. Flaming June

    2 Jul, 2013 - 5:14 pm

    I heard an interesting talk this afternoon by an ex Southern Railways man who started work at the age of 15 as an engine cleaner, then became a fireman until 1967 when steam finished and finally a driver until 1987 on diesel electric and electric trains. Some fascinating anecdotes. What came over was the camaraderie and the working together with a common aim. After leaving driving, he became a driver trainer in the privatised railways.

    He mentioned this gathering of Mallard and other engines at the York Railway Museum this weekend.

    Nice photos.

    ‘Magnificent Mallard: The world’s fastest steam locomotive
    Three-quarters of a century ago, a locomotive built in Doncaster set a world speed record for steam rail travel on a stretch of track just south of Grantham. That 1938 record – of 126 miles per hour – remains to this day.

    To mark the 75th anniversary of the achievement, the National Railway Museum in York has arranged for Mallard to meet its five surviving sister locomotives from the A4 Class – which ran on the East Coast Mainline from the 1930s to the 1960s.

    Ahead of the museum’s Great Gathering on Wednesday 3 July – look back at how the record was set, with one of the museum’s curators Ed Bartholomew.’

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23137106

  3. “I can quote you nothing from this blog because, as you know, I wasn’t following it then. But there were lots of accusation like that out there, believe me. Do you really expect me to have kept a list in the expectation that a few years afterwards I would need to reply to a question like yours?”

    My recollection of events differs, I can’t remember anyone saying that.

    I do recall Israel claiming there were no civilian deaths whatsoever.

    I can post evidence if you like.

  4. Flaming June

    2 Jul, 2013 - 5:19 pm

    I see there is a court martial now in this case. A fixation with guns and ammunition. Note the colleague’s conviction.

    Nightingale: SAS Sniper ‘Put Public At Risk’
    Danny Nightingale is accused of illegally keeping hundreds of rounds of ammunition and a working 9mm pistol at his house.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1110635/nightingale-sas-sniper-put-public-at-risk

  5. Flaming June

    2 Jul, 2013 - 5:23 pm

    I should have said ‘a retrial of a court martial….’

  6. Another typical Habbu-Clown post at 5.07, empty & devoid of any substance or argument, much like so many of his posts.

  7. “I was specifically referring to the outraged posts and comments ommediately after Cast Lead that talked about “thousands of DEATHS”.”

    But you can’t find (or won’t look for) one of them to quote me, Habbabkuk?? (I know you’re not referring to this blog, since you weren’t here then)

    And as Herbie said, “teaching Hamas a lesson” was a crime against humanity.
    I called it a “vicious punishment” way back when the subject came up.

    Sorry, but I have to leave. Duty calls.

  8. Flaming June

    2 Jul, 2013 - 5:32 pm

    Any bonds or visas required? Silly question.

    It is well known that certain elements within the Government are eager to provide a safe haven for suspects wanted for the vilest war crimes and crimes against humanity, and will happily jettison the UK’s binding obligation under the Geneva Convention to seek them out and bring them, regardless of nationality, to justice. There should be no hiding place, not even in the British Foreign Office.

    ‘Lt. General Benny Gatz, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF), is due to visit the United Kingdom this week; it will be the first visit of an IDF Chief of Staff to the United Kingdom since 1998. Lt. General Gantz is suspected of involvement in the commission of war crimes, particularly with respect to his role in the November 2012 attack on the Gaza Strip, codenamed Operation Pillar of Defense.

    Prior to his visit, the UK Government awarded Lt. General Gantz’s trip the status of a Special Mission, thereby granting him immunity from the UK’s criminal justice system. It is noted that Mr. Gantz would not ordinarily be entitled to immunity, and that the UK is under a binding legal obligation to search for and prosecute those suspected of committing war crimes, including before their own national courts.

    The Palestinian Centre for Human Rights and Hickman & Rose Solicitors, who represent the victims of Lt. General Gantz’s actions, condemn the decision to grant immunity to a suspected war criminal. This decision sends the dangerous message that political considerations will be placed ahead of the rule of law.’
    [..]

    /..
    http://www.pchrgaza.org/portal/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=9650:suspected-war-criminal-lt-general-gantz-offered-special-mission-immunity-before-visit-to-the-uk&catid=145:in-focus

  9. “Yes, I was wondering about that too. I’m going to email Shannonwatch (when I get out of here!)”

    I often wonder why people fall for Habby’s troll games; to question absolutely everything, and demand proof, which is then rejected as unconvincing or unreliable, is just one of a common diversionary troll tactics. The give away being does it really alter the point ? ie would it have been wrong to allow 2 million US troops to pass through, but ok for 200 ?

  10. doug scorgie

    2 Jul, 2013 - 5:52 pm

    Flaming June
    30 Jun, 2013 – 7:02 pm

    “Is there a collective noun for trolls?”

    A Coffle of Trolls has a nice ring to it. (Coffle: line of Asses tide together)

    But when they post on here they come out with a Drunkship of Cobblers!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_collective_nouns

  11. The Beeb report linked to by Mary/Flaming June @01.01pm today is still showing half a dozen countries considering Snowden’s asylum application. Hats off to all of them.

    It also includes a snide quote from the Polish minister Radek Sikorski (aka the spouse of neocon eminence Anne Appelbaum). The sooner Correa/Evo Morales or whoever make Snowden an offer of sanctuary, the sooner the smirk from Sikorski’s face vanishes.

  12. doug scorgie

    2 Jul, 2013 - 6:08 pm

    Flaming June
    30 Jun, 2013 – 10:30 pm

    “What is the name for someone who is being trolled?”

    A target Mary.

  13. Flaming June

    2 Jul, 2013 - 6:29 pm

    Doug and Old Mark. Cheers! Keep going Macky.

    Reading back I see what Dreoilin was getting at when she asked where that JTA had come from and was it from medialens. I think I have been posting from Medialens for many years, especially their editors’ ‘alerts’. No I did not get that from medialens. I do have other sources – friends and other Palestinian support groups both formal and informal. That JTA link came from a friend (who is Jewish) in the West Country. Hope that is clear? I could post a lot more similar links but don’t.

    I admire Shannonwatch’s activities especially if they were involved in opposing the atrocity of the rendition flights.
    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/politics/anger-at-rendition-flights-through-shannon-166249.html

  14. doug scorgie

    2 Jul, 2013 - 7:11 pm

    Passerby
    1 Jul, 2013 – 12:01 pm

    “Policing ‘Hippocratic Oath’ will fix bent coppers, MPs hope”

    Some hope!

    Anyway the police already swear an oath:

    I do solemnly and sincerely declare and affirm that I will well and truly serve Our Sovereign Lady the Queen in the office of constable, without fear or affection, malice or ill will; and that I will to the best of my power cause the peace to be kept and preserved and prevent all offences against the persons and properties of Her Majesty’s subjects and that while I continue to hold the said office I will to the best of my skill and knowledge discharge all the duties thereof faithfully according to law.

    Yes, right.

    They also swear to tell the truth etc. when giving evidence in courts (while stitching people up).

  15. “I often wonder why people fall for Habby’s troll games”

    Macky, I am interested in their (Shannonwatch’s) methodology myself. Can you understand that?

    I doubt if they have been sitting in the fields around Shannon, counting planes and then estimating the numbers of troops on board. That would be rather woolly. I have emailed them to find out where the figure of 2.2 million came from.

    Activists certainly did sit in fields, with binoculars if/when necessary, to note the tail numbers of the CIA rendition flights, and the dates and times that they came and went. (These tail numbers were later matched up with sightings in other countries, including torture destinations.) I understand that was the work of Shannonwatch too.

    “That JTA link came from a friend (who is Jewish) in the West Country. Hope that is clear? I could post a lot more similar links but don’t.”

    I don’t think there was any actual link, Mary. That’s the reason I asked. Doesn’t matter now anyway.

  16. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 7:21 pm

    @ Macky

    You claim that I said the following in my post at 16h50 :

    “Any mass killer can claim as an excusing or mitigating factor that he could have murder many more.”

    No, Macky, I’m afraid you’re wrong. If you read what I wrote more carefully you’d see that this is not what I said.

    What I said was that if the Israelis’ intention had been deliberately to kill or injure civilians they could have killed or injured many times the number that were.
    __________

    “Massive mass slaughter of overwhelmingly innocents & children, is rational if it’s to “teach a lesson””

    Again, I think that if you re-read what I said you’ll find that you are wring again. I did not say that anything was rational; what I said was that the Israelis were teaching Hamas a lesson. This is what the Israelis themselves said on several occasions.

  17. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 7:26 pm

    “When the dumb goyah start seeing through the yarmulkes, its again time for a millenial cause n effect correction. The satisfycing from the sayanim has reached a sick crescendo.”

    __________

    “…its again time for a millenial cause n effect correction.”

    Sounds a little bit as if the poster feels it’s time for another holocaust.

    Howls of indignation, anyone? Macky? Komodo? Herbie?

  18. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 7:35 pm

    “..ie would it have been wrong to allow 2 million US troops to pass through, but ok for 200 ?”

    ________

    The point, dear Macky, was to verify, if possible, the “over 2 million” claim.

    I’m sure that you’d agree with me that it is quite reasonable to question this number , which does seem surprisingly large.

    Why does this upset you so much? Anyway, you can calm down for the tilme being, because people are investigating.

  19. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 7:42 pm

    @ OldMark

    “The sooner Correa/Evo Morales or whoever make Snowden an offer of sanctuary….”
    ___________

    I wouldn’t put too much of your money on Messrs Correa and Morales if I were you, OldMark. You might just get egg on your face and have the displeasure of seeing Radek’s smirk deepen (or widen, or whatever smirks do).

    But let us wait and see whether Rafael and Evo are men of courage and principle or just Latin-American blusterers.

  20. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 7:51 pm

    @ Dreoilin:

    “But you can’t find (or won’t look for) one of them to quote me, Habbabkuk?? (I know you’re not referring to this blog, since you weren’t here then)”
    ___________

    Look, this took place some time ago and I’m unfortunately not sufficiently obsessive to keep lists or minute records. The answer is that yes I probably could find quotes and sources if I spent enough time and effort looking for them. And no, I’m not going to do that. There is no point, because experience shows I’m not going to convince anyone; he who doesn’t want to believe, won’t believe, or will find a reason to invalidate the source(s) given. Sorry.

  21. doug scorgie

    2 Jul, 2013 - 8:05 pm

    Flaming June
    1 Jul, 2013 – 9:30 pm

    “BBC Patten to resign.”

    Got me there for a moment.

  22. doug scorgie

    2 Jul, 2013 - 8:49 pm

    Dreoilin
    2 Jul, 2013 – 7:54 am

    “Rafael Correa not considering Snowden asylum: helping him was a ‘mistake’”

    Dreoilin, the article is by Rory Carroll who, in my view, is a despicable liar when it comes to Latin American politics and the smearing the left-wing government of Hugo Chaves.

    Don’t believe a word of it.

  23. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 9:20 pm

    @ Doug Scorgie

    “Dreoilin, the article is by Rory Carroll who, in my view, is a despicable liar when it comes to Latin American politics and the smearing the left-wing government of Hugo Chaves.”
    _____________

    Interesting take on Rory Carroll. I would invite readers to look him up on Wikipedia and reach their own conclusions on whether Carroll seems a “despicable liar”.

    But if he believes the Wikipedia article is biased in favour of Carroll, then Doug should perhaps provide us with chapter and verse to back up what is quite a serious accusation.

  24. Let’s hope Correa and a rotating cast of tormentors pull the rug out from under Snowden again and again. As Philip Agee and Victor Marchetti can tell you, hair-raising thrills do wonders for your book contract!

  25. Habby-Clown; “What I said was that if the Israelis’ intention had been deliberately to kill or injure civilians they could have killed or injured many times the number that were.”

    You can try to hide behind the Apologists “collateral damage” excuse, but it doesn’t wash with anybody with a conscience and a little common-sense; firing powerful battlefield weapons into one of the World’s most densely crowded residential areas, and then claiming that the intention was not really to hit civilians, especially when the targets included private homes, schools, hospitals, etc, is exactly like driving a car recklessly through a busy pedestrian area, killing a few people, and expecting a Judge to let you off because you state you were chasing some “bad” person who happen to run in that direction, and rather like the Americans trying to justify “bugsplats”, which in other words is stating that the lives of those, likely to be killed/ or killed, is not as important as if these people were Americans/Israeli, the ultimately deadly expression of racism.

    Habby-Clown; “Again, I think that if you re-read what I said you’ll find that you are wring again. I did not say that anything was rational; what I said was that the Israelis were teaching Hamas a lesson. This is what the Israelis themselves said on several occasions.”

    The fact that you feel able to shamelessly repeat such a grotesquely inhuman justification for mass murder, implies either you agree with it, or that you don’t find any fault with it.

    Moreover the fact that you cannot see the contradiction in your responses of effectively saying “they didn’t mean to kill all those people”, with “they did it to teach them a lesson”, betrays the desperate & illogical straw-clutching nature of your morally bankrupt position.

    Habby-Clown;”Howls of indignation, anyone? Macky? Komodo? Herbie?”

    Does this ring a bell ?

    “these things are universally condemned and hardly worth the effort of pointing out on a forum where it can be tacitly assumed most people are on the same page.”

    Besides, there’s a fair chance that many anti-Semitic posts here are deliberate hasbara troll attempts, and remind me again who was the last person caught posting anti-Semitic comments using a sock-puppet, oh yes it was you !

    Habby-Clown; “I’m sure that you’d agree with me that it is quite reasonable to question this number , which does seem surprisingly large.”

    No, you deliberately raise this to deflect from Kibo’s point Ireland’s subservience & complicity to & in American crimes.

  26. Flaming June

    2 Jul, 2013 - 10:32 pm

    Rather late to mention this as the programme is just about to start on BBC1. Don McCullin war photographer. Title:Imagine, a documentary portrait. Finishes at midnight.

  27. @Someone (1 Jul, 2013 – 8:51 pm)

    What’s the point in Scottish independence ?

    To have the choice for Scotland’s people to decide;

    on Monarchy, NATO, Trident, Currency

    and a whole host of whatever other issues might arise;

    that whole democracy and self-determination thing.

    None of which can happen without Independence,

    A No vote is a vote for no choices, no changes, no chance.

    I haven’t read your Zionist-controlled BBC link (ZBBC), I don’t ‘do’ the ZBBC as every half-truth is accompanied by an army of lies, perhaps you’d like to summarise their scare story of the day for us to save many the certain grief of having to experience their vomit inducing partiality first-hand. I have to say if they are the source by which you choose to misinform yourself, given over-whelming evidence of their slick depravity and malevolence: criminally so, with such a blemished record – cheerleading for wars, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria spring to mind – you really are a willing party to your own deception.

  28. Flaming June

    2 Jul, 2013 - 10:43 pm

    This is from Medialens where commenters have been on Rory Carroll’s case for yonks.
    http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/thread/1370342074.html

    Re: Link to infolibre.es
    Posted by emersberger on June 4, 2013, 1:31 pm, in reply to “Link to infolibre.es”

    Carroll is very reactionary but sometimes makes a flimsy effort to cover it up. The Spanish reviewer seems to have fallen for it.

    Typical example, just off top of my head, from Al Jazeera interview where he was totally unmasked by other two guests (one from FAIR, the other from CEPR): Carroll said Chavez was neither dictator not democrat but a “hybrid” (i.e. not really a democratically elected head of state like Blair or Obama but some weird and less than democratic concoction).

    However, in his articles, Carroll will often drop even this fake balance and depict Chavez as a tyrant and cherry pick “proof” from wherever he can find or fabricate it. Carroll’s interview with Chomsky is good example but there are countless others.

    Very freeing to have carefully read (and reviewed) hundreds of Carroll’s Venezuela articles. I will not bother to read his book. I’ve read quite enough of him to know – and show – what he is all about.

    I believe an archive of many (not all) of my emails to Carroll over the years is still avaialble here

    http://www.medialens.org/23_fg_75_lc/viewtopic.php?t=2664

    if not I’m sure it can easily be found in new forum on this site

  29. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 10:55 pm

    Macky

    Just a quick question about style (or perhaps technique) : is it your considered opinion that the ritual intoning of “Habby-Clown”, like a black-robed priest at a mass, and the piling-on of mock indignation and outrage in the fashion of a bar-bore made eloquent by an excess of ale are capable of transmutation (ie, turning the dross of your ‘responses’ into gold)? Genuine replies only, please :)

    Over and out for tonight. Happy nightmares!

  30. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 11:07 pm

    re Rory Carroll – who is this “emersberger” whose post Mary/April Showers/Flaming June brings to us with such relish?

    Why should we take his word as gospel anymore than the word of Scorgie?

    The “typical example ” he gives in his second para seems particularly feeble as an indicator of bias. Indeed, Carroll’s characterisation of Mr Chavez sounds rather sensible and on the nail.

    PS – Mary, please remember what Dreoilin said to you about using inverted commas to distinguish what you are saying from your quotations from other sources.

  31. Habbabkuk,

    “Habby-Clown”…but Ok for you to call Mary “Old Biddy” eh?

    Tut tut Habbabkuk,yet more hypocrisy to compound your earlier failure to provide sources and links to earlier claims-as you so often demand from others.

    You’ve just been completely outwitted by Macky’s post at 10.03pm.

    Away and have a wee lie down eh?

  32. Rory Carroll torn to pieces:

    http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/7649

    Habby wasn’t her usual self this evening, was she. Seemed a bit spooked by something. Went straight to victim mode after a sock puppet conveniently arrived upon the scene.

    Wonder was it her gaffe over Israel’s crimes against humanity. I wonder.

    Must mention them more often, and see…

  33. Doug and Mary,

    I don’t know anything about Rory Carroll. But Correa is not giving asylum to Snowden.

    “Ecuador’s President Rafael Correa has denied granting asylum to the former US spy agency whistleblower Edward Snowden.

    “He has described as “cordial” a telephone conversation with the US Vice President Joe Biden over the issue.

    “But Correa has also admitted that a mix-up in Ecuador’s London consulate resulted in Snowden being given an unauthorised safe-passage document as he fled Hong Kong for Russia.

    “The consul overstepped his role and will face sanction,” Correa said. His government had originally denied this.”

    http://www.euronews.com/2013/06/30/ecuador-s-correa-says-snowden-has-not-been-given-asylum/

    If you do a quick search you’ll find more sources.

    ————————————–

    And who is joe emersberger of Windsor, Onatrio, Canada?

    http://www.medialens.org/23_fg_75_lc/viewtopic.php?t=2664

  34. I wonder exactly the nature of The Squeeze put on Correa?

    Maybe something he said on the phone or online? :.)

    I’m beginning to see how this Prism/NSA malarky really works…

  35. Dear Hot Babe UK

    Hababkak, who is getting increasingly blatant in his role (much to my amusement).

    I wonder if you and “Tech Savage” (English Knight) might get a room? That’s if you don’t already have one.

  36. Mary,

    “I will return to my real name in July.”

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/06/work-for-the-un/#comment-413355

  37. Jives,

    “I wonder exactly the nature of The Squeeze put on Correa?”

    Yes, good question. All I’ve read so far is from the euronews link

    “Although, Ecuador’s president says he does not know if Snowden is headed for the country, many people are starting to fear the knock-off effect of shielding a wanted US citizen.

    “Washington has signalled that it will indefinitely delay a decision to eliminate tariffs on Ecuadorean imports of roses; a trade worth some 250 million US dollars a year.

    “Benito Jaramilo, head of Ecuador’s flower-growing association said: “If this escalates, it could also decrease flower exports from Ecuador, affecting the jobs of our people and revenue in US dollars for our country, which is essential for the dollarisation.”

    http://www.euronews.com/2013/06/30/ecuador-s-correa-says-snowden-has-not-been-given-asylum/

    Somehow, after the Assange affair, the above is not very impressive?

  38. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    2 Jul, 2013 - 11:57 pm

    Hotter than hellacious her in SoCal, so a little breeze from the archives…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ahhmiuyko0

  39. “I’m unfortunately not sufficiently obsessive to keep lists or minute records. The answer is that yes I probably could find quotes and sources if I spent enough time and effort looking for them. And no, I’m not going to do that.”

    Habbabkuk, I don’t particularly care. But don’t be surprised if your words are quoted back at you when you ask someone else for a link to back up what they’re saying. K?

  40. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    3 Jul, 2013 - 12:03 am

  41. For Habby and the sock puppet

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DQnS18EeWM

  42. Puzzled Reader

    3 Jul, 2013 - 12:21 am

    Dreoilin: I don’t get it. I only read this blog and virtually never post but what have you got against “Mary”? What am I missing? I see the clear “attack squad” (some more disguised than others) and then I see you? Can’t figure it out.

    Are they really **THAT ANNOYING** you can’t shutup about the posts?

  43. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    3 Jul, 2013 - 12:22 am

    Hunter..you were such a bastard.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr6YnnVeKDI

  44. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    3 Jul, 2013 - 12:29 am

    This requires a break in the revelry..

    What the Fuck?

    “Earlier, Morales told Russian media his country would “debate and consider” granting political asylum to Snowden “if there were a request.”

    Bolivia is one of 21 nations to which Snowden had applied for asylum, according to the anti-secrecy WikiLeaks website.

    “Bolivia is there to shield the denounced, whether it is espionage or control. In either case, we are here to assist,” Morales told Russia’s state-run RT television in comments translated by the channel from Spanish.

    Choquehuanca said Morales’s plane had been scheduled to refuel in Portugal, but both France and Portugal denied overflight.

    “Inexplicably we were informed (by Lisbon) that the overflight and landing permission had been cancelled,” the top diplomat said.

    The plane was re-routed to include a stop in Spain’s Canary islands, but France then refused to allow overflight of its territory, Choquehuanca said.”

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5j_xUcVPWE_-TCaS8UFxcr_JZOQwA

    Portugal denied…fuck the porgies.

    France denies…fuck the frogs.

  45. Puzzled Reader

    Strange, I’ve seen that “avatar” before … :)

  46. BrianFujisan

    3 Jul, 2013 - 12:32 am

    Great Piece Here By Felicity Arbuthnot

    It seems however, the Washington and Whitehall regimes remain increasingly disconnected from reality. In spite of the plethora of gruesome images circulating on the internet of grinning terrorists holding up severed heads, cannibalizing body organs and summarily executing, they are to provide further arms to insurgency’s Hannibal Lecters. This, also regardless of the fact that Riad al-Assad, founder of the so-called “Free Syrian Army” is quoted as saying that suicide bombing is: “ an integral part of revolutionary action, of Free Syrian Army action.”

    Meanwhile, less than a month after the murder of a soldier in London’s Woolwich by wanna be jihadists (with reported relationship with hard drugs) Britain’s increasingly rudderless ship of state allows entry to a controversial Saudi preacher, Muhamed Al Arefe, alleged to have made anti-Shia and anti-Semitic exhortations and who argues that a husband: “may use beatings to discipline his wife” as long as he beats her “lightly.”(i)

    Informed friends from the Middle East charge bluntly that he recruits jihadists, as last week in visits Riyadh and Cairo. One added: “David Cameron may as well stand at the gate (of the Mosque) and hand out arms for the ‘good freedom fighters’ who will be heading to Syria after hearing Arefe’s sickening lies, sectarian incitement and calls for jihad against the ‘infidel regime.’ “

    AND in the same Piece This

    British-Libyan arms dealer Abdul Basit Haroun – who was a property developer in Manchester, UK for twenty years, until 2011 – has told Reuters that weapons are reaching Syria not alone by numerous flights, but on ships, concealed amongst humanitarian aid. Haroun has claimed that the authorities know about the shipment: “everybody knows.”

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/afghanistan-iraq-libya-and-now-syria-chear-leading-another-blood-bath-in-the-name-of-peace/5340148

  47. Ben,

    Wikileaks tweets

    https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/352183163256184833

    France and Portugal must be denounced, if, as has been reported, President Morales jet was denied landing rights for fear of having Snowden

    If indeed a Presidential plane was diverted for the reasons given then we really are not in Kansas anymore.

  48. Since the Guardian published the death toll of children killed in the Syria conflict in April 2013, the figure I have received in June from a survey conducted within Syria’s hospitals surveys was close on 7,000. The number of children maimed and disabled was around 18,000.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/13/death-toll-syrian-conflict-93000

    Why did this British coalition including the LibDems who weeped over Iraq’s war casualties all of a sudden decide that Syria had to be destabilized and its government overthrown by subterfuge in late 2011.

    Did the British people know that our secret service and Special Forces were engaged in the logistics of more than 160 military cargo flights by Jordanian, Saudi and Qatari military-style cargo planes landing at Esenboga Airport near Ankara, and, to a lesser degree, at other Turkish and Jordanian airports?

    Did the BBC report that?

    Did the British people know that MI6, SAS mercenaries and Turkish government officials have helped the Arab governments shop for weapons, including a large procurement from Croatia, and have vetted rebel commanders and groups at secret locations, one of which is known to me, to determine who should receive the weapons as they arrive?

    My friend ex SAS has logged Jordanian cargo planes for rebels working in southern Syria and for re-transfer to Turkey for rebels groups operating from there. This information is explosive and will be revealed to the British public at the right time.

    Did we not learn from the Iraq massacre?

    With help from the British public this database and evidence will be sent to the U.N.

    Declaration:

    “The United Kingdom understands the term “the established framework of international law”, used in article 8 (2) (b) and (e), to include customary international law as established by State practice and opinio iuris. In that context the United Kingdom confirms and draws to the attention of the Court its views as expressed, inter alia, in its statements made on ratification of relevant instruments of international law, including the Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12th August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts (Protocol I) of 8th June 1977.”

  49. “I’m beginning to see how this Prism/NSA malarky really works…”

    All info is power; all those institutes like the UN, and those various Human Rights organizations, that appear less than useless, there’s the main reason, they’ve all been hobbled.

    (Notice that a certain hypocritical clown doesn’t like being called a clown, maybe if he stop clowning around, he wouldn’t get called a clown !)

  50. Ben,

    Here’s Clapton’s idol…enjoy ;.)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXXkD7Dvq_E

  51. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    3 Jul, 2013 - 1:00 am

    Jives; I call your Freddie and raise you another Clapton idol, Albert.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKY8KIt9kqc

  52. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    3 Jul, 2013 - 1:01 am

    Click your heels, Anon. We must create our own reality.

  53. BrianFujisan

    3 Jul, 2013 - 1:03 am

    Yet another nomination for Bradley Manning, laureate Mairead Maguire, nominates Bradley Manning For Nobel Peace Prize

    “I recently visited Syria, where I met a few of the millions of refugees and internally displaced people whose lives have been torn apart by the ongoing conflict in that country. I learned from those I spoke to, both within the government and in opposition groups, that while there is a legitimate and long-overdue movement for peace and non-violent reform in Syria, the worst acts of violence are being perpetrated by outside groups. Extremist groups from around the world have converged upon Syria, bent on turning this conflict into one of ideological hatred ”

    http://stopwar.org.uk/index.php/usa-war-on-terror/2566-why-theres-no-one-more-deserving-of-the-nobel-peace-prize-than-bradley-manning

  54. Ben,

    Cheers muchly for the HST link…i’ll look forward to watching that…

    Ahhh Albert King…another Master!

    :.)

  55. Click your heels, Anon. We must create our own reality.

    To mold a new reality. Closer to the heart

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quBCjo2rUZg

    “And the men who hold high places…”

  56. Who cares

    Might as well have this one as well. Google/NSA/GCHQ/5EYES/YOUTUBE suggested it to me next https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Tq-UsaRchI

    All this machinery making modern music
    Can still be open-hearted.
    Not so coldly charted, it’s really just a question
    Of your honesty, yeah, your honesty.

    One likes to believe in the freedom of music,
    But glittering prizes and endless compromises
    Shatter the illusion of integrity
    .

  57. BrianFujisan

    3 Jul, 2013 - 1:19 am

    A wee change of Styles For the music dudes Here

    Hawaiian Gentle GIANT Israel “IZ” Kamakawiwo`ole’s Sings Somewhere Over The Rainbow. Such a beautiful Beautiful Voice

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_DKWlrA24k

    There’s another video of this song by IZ..that’s heading towards 85 million views

  58. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    3 Jul, 2013 - 1:22 am

    Thanks to all for the musical interlude.. I will conclude this nights entertainment with some wise words of redemption, even for those who may not deserve it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AOUzlFdzes

  59. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    3 Jul, 2013 - 1:29 am

    g’nite all.

  60. BrianFujisan

    3 Jul, 2013 - 1:31 am

    Kool Anon… One Last Chooon Ben My fave Rush Track, Mystic rhythms

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reciD1vMCgQ

  61. Snowden Safe from Asylum in Ireland.

    “Taoiseach Enda Kenny has confirmed to the Dáil that Mr Snowden has sought asylum in Ireland, but that only applications made within the country can be considered.

    Mr Kenny said that if a valid application is received, it will be processed in the normal way.

    He confirmed that Mr Snowden has written to the Irish Embassy in Moscow seeking asylum, but that such applications are not accepted from people who are outside the country.”

    From RTE: http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0702/460034-edward-snowden/

    I would have really feared for him had asylum appeared to be offered by such a poodle.

    I want to say thanks to Shannonwatch and all who sail in her.

    Here’s Christy Moore:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QYF4WI9Gl8

    “…The sound of forbidden words becomes a scream,
    Voices of anger, Victims of history,
    Plundered and set aside, grown fat on swallowed pride..”

    @Ben. 11 57pm

    Thanks for the latest find at Bakersfield Beds. Were they the first multi-hued soul band?
    And Clapton. What a guitarist!

    Goodnight all.

  62. Wikileaks now suggesting NATO order against President of Bolivia’s plane forcing it to make unscheduled landing

    https://twitter.com/wikileaks

    Bolivian leader’s plane ‘put at risk’ as a result of Snowden fear | AP http://news.yahoo.com/bolivian-leaders-plane-rerouted-snowden-fear-222538590.html
    View summary
    WikiLeaks WikiLeaks ‏@wikileaks 5m

    Today, WikiLeaks editor spends second birthday in the Ecuadorean embassy as UK continues to violate international law and permit asylum.
    Expand
    Jen Robinson Jen Robinson ‏@suigenerisjen 22m

    Wouldn’t the diplomatic cable traffic this evening make for interesting reading….
    Retweeted by WikiLeaks
    Expand
    Diario El Telégrafo Diario El Telégrafo ‏@el_telegrafo 45m

    #Urgente Italia le niega también a Bolivia sobrevolar su espacio aéreo según el Ministro de Defensa boliviano http://is.gd/lJhJKW
    Retweeted by WikiLeaks
    Expand
    WikiLeaks WikiLeaks ‏@wikileaks 17m

    Congratulations Obama, Kerry. You may have alienated an entire continent as a result of your thin skinned vindictiveness. #snowden

    WikiLeaks ‏@wikileaks 26m

    States now named: France, Portugal, Italy, Spain. Was the alert NATO wide? If so which NATO state gave airspace from Moscow? Germany?

    .

  63. plus, there are reports of 13 kidnappings, including an elected legislator, & one killing since July 1:

    Report: “1790 Palestinians Kidnapped, 16 Killed, In First Half of 2013”
    http://www.imemc.org/article/65762

  64. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    3 Jul, 2013 - 1:54 am

    Anon; I’ve just posted the following to all the blogs I comment on including Politico. It is important that this not escape the 24-hr news cycle. The more bandwidth the better.

    from your Yahoo link..

    “”We don’t know who invented this lie. We want to denounce to the international community this injustice with the plane of President Evo Morales,” Choquehuanca said from La Paz. Morales had earlier met with Russian President Vladimir Putin at a summit of major gas exporters in the Kremlin.”

    Portugal and Frane’s refusal to allow flyover in response to a rumor, is something I’m very interested to hear more about.

  65. How The President’s plane was diverted

    http://www.flightradar24.com/2013-07-02/16:35/FAB1http://www.flightradar24.com/201

    WikiLeaks ‏@wikileaks 11m

    Live radar: diversion flight of President Evo Morales by France, Italy and Portugal:

  66. URL got corrupted. Try http://www.flightradar24.com/2013-07-02/16:35/FAB1

    Should work

  67. Some people forget their keys or phone whilst others forget something rather larger…

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/02/james-clapper-senate-erroneous#start-of-comments

  68. Flaming June

    3 Jul, 2013 - 6:52 am

    Part 2. Doctors to act as invoice clerks for the Border Agency.

    July 3, 2013 12:01 am

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/be125594-e337-11e2-bd87-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2XxTknCPe
    Non-EU migrants to face £200 healthcare entry fee

    Meanwhile the national health service which our fathers and grandfathers founded is going down the drain. The plan to ‘destabilize, demoralize and destroy’ is working nicely for the unmandated ConDems.

    eg
    Tameside hospital’s key staff
    Hospital’s chief executive of 15 years and medical director told to go by local GP-led clinical commissioning group
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/jul/02/tameside-hospital-key-staff

    Verdict on Tameside hospital: long waits, few staff, overcrowding
    Standards of patient care have come in for severe criticism as two independent reviews found scenes of chaos in the A&E unit
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/jul/02/nhs-hospitals

    Hunt is coming on Sky News at 7.10 if anyone is interested.

  69. Flaming June

    3 Jul, 2013 - 7:06 am

    “International justice is central to foreign policy. It is essential for securing the rights of individuals and states, and for securing peace and reconciliation. Through the International Criminal Court, and the other international courts and tribunals, we are working to make clear that those responsible for the worst crimes will be held to account and that perpetrators, including political leaders, will not enjoy impunity, and providing a fair hearing for both victims and accused. Our support to these institutions is an important element in our strategy to reduce conflict, promote stability and strengthen the rules based international system.”

    From Hague’s Written Statement on UK Support and Funding for International Justice.

    No irony ref Syria.

    No irony either ref his decision to welcome Benny Gantz to these shores who. if this country still supported the principle of universal jurisdiction, would have his collar felt on arrival at Heathrow for crimes committed against the Palestinian people.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Gantz

    Benny’s ‘Pillar of Defense’ Gaza November 2012.

  70. Flaming June

    3 Jul, 2013 - 7:21 am

    Sadly, Jenny Tonge’s husband died a few days ago. They both looked after their grandchildren after their daughter was killed by accidental electrocution. Jenny was betrayed by the Liberal Democrats when Clegg removed her as health spokesperson in the Lords for speaking out against Israel’s crimes.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Tonge,_Baroness_Tonge

  71. @Passerby

    “Just expressing artistic integrity” Sorry. Of which in this totaly insane situation we find ourselves witness to, sometime as we are taught in our early English Lit classes. When the time suits the agenda we do like to read into things slight deeper than just supposing.

    I find the UAE situation particulary disturbing in regard to the sentences recent sentences to a group of people.
    The information is not to available and perhaps Press Tv have other accounts.

    To negate that what is apparent to us in Syria and in UAE is truly despotic, what we find typicaly as is always the case in our conventional media outlet is the in complete and bias coverage.
    Sorry to stir passions enough in you to feel need to comment.

    I appologise Jonny Cash can evoke deep passions.

    Strange isn`t?

    Great strenghths are to be found here that is why we keep coming back.

    Thanks to everyone for their efforts.

    A court in the United Arab Emirates has sentenced 64 people to prison on charges of planning a coup in the country, Abu Dhabi television has said.

    Reported.
    On Tuesday, the Federal Supreme Court handed 56 people prison sentences of ranging between seven and 10 years, and eight others were sentenced to 15 years in prison in absentia.

    They were all convicted of plotting to overthrow the government of the Persian Gulf Arab state.

    With “Democracy”?

  72. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    3 Jul, 2013 - 7:55 am

    @ Dreoilin

    “But don’t be surprised if your words are quoted back at you when you ask someone else for a link to back up what they’re saying. K?”
    ___________

    That’s a fair point. But surely you’d agree that most of the questions I put regarding others’ posts don’t involve asking the addressee to provide links? Take the ‘Shannon question’, where I merely expressed some surprise/doubt about the 2 million+ plus figure – someone provided a link to Shannonwatch, which is fair enough, but I didn’t demand that they should do so. Or what I said about the number of Gazan casualties during Cast Lead – here again, I was merely making the point that if killing as many civilians as possible had been the Israeli intention they could have managed a lot more than the number they did – a thought which didn’t involve calling for links (and which, incidentally, didn’t imply approval either despite what some people are suggesting).
    I think one has to be reasonable about this and I think you’d find that very few if any of my posts base their case on demanding links or on the absence of same.
    Furthermore, furnishing links is not always very useful. Take emerberger (above) : a contributor here says something about Rory Carroll and then quotes this gentleman, who just happens to say the same thing. But what is the ‘status’ of emerberger? We simply don’t know. So the quote or link doesn’t really get us any further. It’s a little like linking to Lenin to back up one’s assertion that Marxism-Leninism is a wonderful thing.

    Enjoy the day!

  73. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    3 Jul, 2013 - 8:17 am

    @ Jives

    “I wonder exactly the nature of The Squeeze put on Correa?

    Maybe something he said on the phone or online? :.)

    I’m beginning to see how this Prism/NSA malarky really works…”
    __________

    I think the answer is really fairly simple and doesn’t involve Prism, etc, in any meaningful way. It is simply that Morales probably sees little point and little advantage in (further) worsening relations with Washington by granting asylum to someone for/towards whom Bolivia has no responsibility or obligation.
    And, as I’ve said before, if I were Julian Assange, I would also be slightly worried – Ecuador, in a way, finds itself in the same hole as Assange and, like him, would dearly like to dig its way out of said hole; the gesture of tweaking Washington’s nose has been made, but tweaked noses usually return to their original shape quite quickly. Cynical, perhaps, but that’s politics and international relations.

  74. I often wonder why people fall for Habby’s troll games; to question absolutely everything, and demand proof, which is then rejected as unconvincing or unreliable, is just one of a common diversionary troll tactics.

    It’s because it does it so well, Macky. Just the right combination of apparent interest, curled-lip condescension, personal invective and rabbinical questioning. And never, never, any evidence for its portentous observations. There’s a lesson there for anyone intending to troll the Mail Online, which is where it gets its opinions. We all respond, don’t we? Sad to see you do too. But it really, really is better to ignore it completely, no matter what the provocation. Let it gibber and squeak under its bridge. Ditto, what I am increasingly led to believe is its foil/sockpuppet, English Knight/whatever it is today.

  75. Komodo. 8 26am

    “Let it gibber and squeak under its bridge.”

    Right on! That’s my resolution for today.

    As for the Evo Morale’s flight. Doesn’t that display that it isn’t only the Irish state that behaves like a groveling vasel towards the monster that the US has become.

    At least Ireland has the excuse of being just a small state.

    Clare Daly’s observations clearly apply far more widely in Europe

  76. “South American nations furious over diversion of Bolivian president’s plane” – live blogging up to 9am this morning

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/03/edward-snowden-asylum-live

    A summary of events at 6.26am

    A major diplomatic incident has occured after a jet carrying the president of Bolivia was rerouted to Austria. Various European countries prevented the plane from overflying their airspace, amidst suspicions NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden was onboard.

    Austrian foreign ministry officials subsequently said Snowden was not onboard. Morales, along with the Bolivian defence minister, remain at Vienna international airport.

    The defence minister has said that France, Portugal, Italy and Spain had prevented the jet from entering their airspace. The airspace ban is still being enforced by Spanish authorities. He blamed the decisions on pressure from the US government.

    A number of South American states have voiced outrage at the incident, and, according to Argentinian president Cristina Kirchner, the Peruvian president Ollanta Humala has called a meeting of the Union of South American Nations to discuss the ongoing events.

    The Bolivian vice president, Alvaro Garcia, said Morales had been “kidnapped by imperialiam”.

  77. “At least Ireland has the excuse of being just a small state.”

    Yes, Kibo, and at least Ireland voted against lifting the arms embargo on Syria.

  78. “a contributor here says something about Rory Carroll and then quotes this gentleman, who just happens to say the same thing. But what is the ‘status’ of emerberger?”

    Well, here is what Flaming June/Mary said:

    “I believe an archive of many (not all) of my emails to Carroll over the years is still avaialble here

    http://www.medialens.org/23_fg_75_lc/viewtopic.php?t=2664

    ———————-

    and the link goes to emails from “joe emerberger” who claims to be in Ontario

  79. Kibo,

    Ireland also voted in favour of an upgrade in U.N. status for the Palestinians.

    But when Angela Merkel frowns about bondholders, Enda Kenny goes weak at the knees. And when the Obama women arrive in Dublin there is a silly media scrum.

  80. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    3 Jul, 2013 - 10:16 am

    @ Dreoilin:

    “Well, here is what Flaming June/Mary said:

    “I believe an archive of many (not all) of my emails to Carroll over the years is still avaialble here”
    __________

    I think (but may be mistaken) that you’ve fallen victim to Mary’s refusal to cleary indicate what is quotation and what is not.

    I read the above sentence as coming from emerberger himself: one of the reasons being that it’s unlikely that Mary’s been corresponding with Carroll for years. Also, in the full quote, emerberger seems to be a “reviewer”.

    Check out Mary’s full post again.

  81. “Let it gibber and squeak under its bridge.”

    Well that is what I long advocated, from H’s very first appearance here, but to my dismay I watched others continually feed him, and then my dismay first turned to alarm as other posters pretended not to notice the vicious bullying campaign against Mary, and to utter disbelief when certain posters started first to praise him (!), and then actually supported him in his attacks on others, especially on Mary. Things recently came to a head , where Jon had to intervene as things were getting out of hand, and he was warned off trying to engage with Mary, and as a consequence his trolling has been somewhat curtailed, and he has now resorted to playing the innocent, ever so polite but contrarian, poster; of course it’s just another masquerade, but I’ve decided to help him expose himself by engaging. Any shred of remaining credibility, especially with those yet to see the light, as he repeatedly fails in his attempts to defend to the undefendable, namely his contrarian positions, will quickly dissipate, revealing a ridiculous & very naked clown.

    Despite his self-declared “intellectual fire-power” bluster, and despite his agenda & unhinged views, I suspect that our dear trolling clown really actually wants to be accepted as an equal here; almost enough to feel pity for him !

  82. “Reservists in the British Army will become specialists in cyber security, chemical-biological warfare and intelligence under sweeping reforms being carried out to transform the force in preparation for future conflicts, The Independent has learnt.

    “The Territorial Army, whose size is being doubled from 15,000 to 30,000, will have a much more integrated role to counter the new threats presented by technology and WMDs in the hands of insurgents and rogue states. It will also be extensively engaged in gathering information under plans drawn up by the military.”

    More
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/exclusive-army-reserves-to-become-specialists-in-intelligence-and-cyber-security-under-sweeping-reforms-8684012.html

  83. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    3 Jul, 2013 - 10:26 am

    @ Komodo

    “rabbinical questioning.”
    ________

    Wow, I must think seriously about growing a beard.

    More seriously, though, I’m aware that you’ve switched to the tactic of never responding (even to defend your own statements. That tactic contrasts with, for example, Macky’s, which consists in denial accompanied by insults and a feeling that he can ‘win’ an argument by being the last one to post.

    I’m honestly “incredibly relaxed” about both approaches, neither of which will silence me and both of which might indicate an inability to deal with my points in a reasoned manner. Silent readers will make the connection, I think.

  84. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    3 Jul, 2013 - 10:31 am

    Macky, on his road to Calvary, first suffered from “dismay”, which then turned into “alarm” which then became “utter disbelief”.

    Oh dear! The only things missing apear to be references to the crown of thorns and the cup of vinegar.

  85. “I think (but may be mistaken) that you’ve fallen victim to Mary’s refusal to cleary indicate what is quotation and what is not …

    Check out Mary’s full post again.”

    Yep, you’re right. Damn and blast.

  86. The territorial army or ‘army reserve’ thank-you Dreoilin, may be increased to over 100,000 according to my sources.

    They are/will be trained in riot management & crowd control. This includes training civilians to use body-length riots shields, protect themselves from missiles and how to identify and arrest “ring leaders’ using specially trained “snatch squads”.

    Army reservists are trained into how to work as teams armed with body-length shields in driving back hostile crowds.

    Come the revolution you are either with us or the terrorists.

  87. Hubba-
    Good luck in your quest for someone who cares. Out.

  88. “Come the revolution you are either with us or the terrorists.”

    That’s it, Mark.

  89. I can see why some people might want to cut and paste without quotation marks. It makes it appear as if the commentary is their own work. Where I come from, that’s called plagiarism.

  90. Flaming June

    3 Jul, 2013 - 12:53 pm

    Hammond as Secretary of State for Defence, has announced large cuts to TA bases and increases in TA numbers and funding. He is supposed to have issued a prior copy of this statement to the House which includes the opposition. Only the media have had prior knowledge.

    Bercow is now hauling Hammond over the coals.

    Incompetent and fascist.

  91. Flaming June

    3 Jul, 2013 - 12:54 pm

    Some very petty and irrelevant stuff on here this morning vis a vis what is really happening in the wider world.

  92. “Some very petty and irrelevant stuff on here this morning vis a vis what is really happening in the wider world.”

    No, Mary.

    This whole blog is about what is happening in the wider world.

    But (if you’re talking about references to you) it’s not at all “petty” or “irrelevant” when people have difficulty in deciphering what you post, and to point that out. Is it REALLY so difficult to add quotation marks to quoted text? If I and others can do it, why not you?? Or, since you can clearly use italics whenever you want to, why can’t you do that with quoted text??

  93. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    3 Jul, 2013 - 4:39 pm

    Reuters, yahoo and Guardian are all I see covering the kidnapping. Blogs are verklempt.

  94. Flaming June

    3 Jul, 2013 - 4:44 pm

    As I said, petty.

  95. technicolour

    3 Jul, 2013 - 5:50 pm

    is repeatedly calling someone ‘petty’, when all they’ve asked you to do is post info more clearly, not rather…petty?

    now you can call me ‘petty’ for saying this, mary, and we can go round and round in small circles. i vote you just post things more clearly.

  96. No,.. I’m PETTY.

    We are all .. PETTY!

  97. [Mod/Jon: excessive commentary about another poster - please ignore o/t news articles if you don't like them]

  98. Reuters, yahoo and Guardian are all I see covering the kidnapping. Blogs are verklempt

    It is verklemmt!

    I am joining the spelling, grammar and phraseology brigade of correctness on the web, so watch your arse, ” ” marks, commas, and full stops! Beats the fuck out of typing anything remotely intelligent, and by denigrating your work makes me feel oh so superior to boot.

    Please do some more of this sort of thing, so that I can feel even more superior!

  99. As I said, neither petty nor irrelevant.

    Mary’s just stubborn for the sake of being stubborn.

  100. technicolour

    3 Jul, 2013 - 9:12 pm

    and do you expect Mary to take those comments quietly, Villager? if so, why? A ‘petty’ discussion about punctuation has now morphed into an all out personal attack. Improvement?

    Sheesh.

  101. @Dreoilin.

    Reminding me this morning of honourable Irish record re Palestinian and Syrian issues.

    Point taken.

    A pity about the deference by Fianna Fail/Gael/Labour to financial elites, grovelling to Obamas and Shannon US transit.

    I’m hoping to witness the Irish public digging in a few heels. Possibly last week’s cutting of mortgage arrears time before banks can initiate eviction procedures will be a final straw in a country with such an terrible history of evictions.

    While the plague of evictions is not within living memory, it certainly persists within family memories. For example my great grandfather, evicted as an infant because tenant farmers were seen as less profitable than cattle.

    Not holding my breath but history is full of those moments when the need change can no longer be denied.

    As Victor Hugo (or was it Alexandre Dumas) said. “There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world, and that is an idea whose time has come.”

  102. “For example my great grandfather, evicted as an infant because tenant farmers were seen as less profitable than cattle.”

    Yes, Kibo. I had been hoping that that history would send the public onto the streets (at the very least) in the last year or so. (Occupy the Dáil would have been even better.) But sadly not. I’m beginning to think that worries about mortgages and unemployment and feeding children have taken their toll and people just don’t have the energy for a fight-back.
    But they did in days of yore!

    [I have bemoaned the lack of action on Twitter, but felt I couldn't take it too far, as I myself am not in good enough health to take to any streets, let alone the Dáil, and I didn't want to be thought a hypocrite.]

  103. @Villager

    “…because sitting at her news control-room, she projects she’s figured it all out. For us.”

    You claim to believe the teachings of a man who “had everything worked out.” That is your choice and that’s fine by me.

    But does it give you any business attacking Mary as though you had her “all worked out.”

    Your posts consistently dismiss people who choose to change things out in the world, while claiming that the correct place to be seeking change is in one’s inner world. Again,such a choice is yours to make, but surely primarily for yourself.

    What puzzles me is why one who is believes exclusively in the superiority of inner practice should then be so vocal in attacking those who look, consider and discus the happenings and actions of those engaging out there in our world.

    Why does this blog concern you at all since you clearly have so little respect for it’s outward focus​?

    Surely the blog for you would be one which deals with inner practice.

    So what if Mary annoys some by omitting inverted commas.

    Some tell her they don’t like it. She carries on regardless. No one dies form this .

    Would you like to explain why you feel you need to turn a critique of her grammatical style into such an in depth analysis of her faults​?

  104. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    3 Jul, 2013 - 10:51 pm

    Fedup; I thought the emotion connected to your nym fedup would include grammarians.

    Not sure if you are using the original Deutsch dictionary.

    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/verklempt

  105. Note

    Mary’s non-use of inverted commas has nothing to do with grammar (or ‘grammar nazis’). And in fact I wouldn’t call it “style” either. Style would involve e.g. a choice between quotation marks and italics, or italics and blockquotes. Mary chooses to use none of them.

    It’s a matter of punctuation:

    “Punctuation marks are essential when you are writing. They show the reader where sentences start and finish and if they are used properly they make your writing easy to understand. This section gives practical guidance on how to use commas, semicolons, and other types of punctuation correctly, so that your writing will always be clear and effective.”

    http://oxforddictionaries.com/words/punctuation

    Inverted commas are mainly used (second example)

    “to mark off a word or phrase that’s being discussed, or that’s being directly quoted from somewhere else”

    http://oxforddictionaries.com/words/inverted-commas

    Punctuation is used to make your writing easy to understand, clear and effective. That’s all that’s being requested.

  106. @Dreoilin 12 11am

    “Punctuation is used to make your writing easy to understand, clear and effective.”

    I agree. It is easier and would be my preference.

    “That’s all that’s being requested.”

    Well no I don’t think so. Whilst maybe it is for most who post on the issue of the missing inverted commas, there is also, for some a strong current of deeper personal attack. That’s what bothers me.

    I’d much rather see all posts from you, Mary, Komodo and a dozen more, completely mis-spelt, unpunctuated and ungramatical, than not see them at all, because the irritation would be so far outweighed by the value of the content.

    If our irritation over punctuation is simply a minor quarrel amongst allies in a far more important quest, then that’s OK with me. I just get bothered when the quarrel grows into a larger personal attack. That’s why I challenged Villager and not you.

    Enough seriousness.

    Something for the end of the day. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzU_CUK1VKk

  107. That was beautiful, Kibo, thanks. You could hardly have chosen anything that would appeal to me more.

    “Whilst maybe it is for most who post on the issue of the missing inverted commas, there is also, for some a strong current of deeper personal attack. That’s what bothers me.”

    The inverted commas (or italics or blockquotes, as alternatives) are all I’m requesting. After the shenanigans on the UN thread, I made myself a promise that I wouldn’t get entangled in disputes here. And I’m trying not to, although I lost patience with a certain poster on the ‘All Law is Gone’ thread tonight. I know that.

    ‘night

  108. Right.

    I’m determined to have the last word on this petty debate.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMzW42zZVN0

    :.)

  109. ^ That wasn’t directed at any particular posters incidentally..

    Just a bit of humour to lighten things..:.)

  110. Flaming June

    4 Jul, 2013 - 7:38 am

    This page 5 resembles the last page of the Work for the UN thread.

    My single post on 2 July at 10.43pm which copied one on Medialens from Joe Emersberger, including the link to it, evolved into one from Habbabkuk (who is Joe Emersgerger? Easy to google btw) and a little stir about Dreoilin’a reminder to use inverted commas, then exchanges about the lack of inverted commas from Dreolin, more from Habbabkuk, a dig from Technicolour when I said it was all petty stuff which finally prompted a contribution from Villager which was an ad hominem/character assassination.

    This from memory. I could not bear to read back through it.

    Absolutely unbelievable and amazing. Petty indeed.

    I trust that the ad hominem/character assassination from Villager will be removed.

  111. Not sure if you are using the original Deutsch dictionary.

    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/verklempt

    Thanks for making me laugh,Ben, ‘verklemmt’ is exactly the right term. Somebody who is holding something back by the strength of their clenched buttocks.

    proof of GCHQ’s valuable work, no doubt these dangerous terrorists would be otherwise free walking the streets. Our very own Norfolk terrorist, how quaint and as daft as the three lions…..jailed for seven years, if it was murder or rape, he would have got off lightly.

    http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/man_jailed_for_role_in_buxton_bomb_plot_1_2262824

  112. technicolour

    4 Jul, 2013 - 9:12 am

    my ‘dig’, Mary, was to point out that calling a straightforward nd sensible request for clarity ‘petty’ was in itself quite petty. I actually hope all of these posts get deleted but I don’t see why you should be rewriting history in the meantime.

  113. Mary my remarks were not intended to be a “character assassination” but mere feedback, observation of “what is” and as long as you’ve read them, that is all. What you do with them is up to you. I note that you still fling around the word ‘petty’ implying your own superiority. Although, if you want to contribute to harmony on the blog, i suggest you stop accusing people of being petty and in posting please separate your comments from quotations.

    Kibo raises some interesting questions and i shall try find time later to address her with all respect.

  114. Jives, you divil,

    That was well chosen :)

  115. This Murdoch recording/leak smacks of a Murdoch PR job.

    It suits him to have a recording of him complaining of Met incompetence and victimisation,whilst,of course,all the time protesting his innocence.

    Exactly the sleekit bastards methodology.

  116. “It suits him to have a recording of him complaining of Met incompetence and victimisation,whilst,of course,all the time protesting his innocence.”

    I doubt it suits him to have a recording of him admitting to knowing about the bribery of police officers right from taking over the News of the World.

    That could land him in big trouble.

  117. [Mod: Excessive discussion about another poster]

  118. Regarding Mary’s postings, I have consulted with Solomon on this matter and he has decreed thus:

    “Those who like her posts should continue to read them.
    Those who don’t should stop reading them and shut the fuck up.”

  119. Regarding ‘pandering to racism’,
    There’s a story in today’s printed Guardian entitled “BBC told to seek broader range of opinions to reflect public views” which I can’t find in the online version.
    It quotes a report saying …

    “BBC journalists must seek out unpalatable opinions on sensitive topics including immigration and religion”

    … and …

    “… including some which ‘people like us’ may find unpalatable to deflect concerns that the corporation was tilted to the left”

    …. and our old friend Helen Boaden ‘admitting’ that when she took over as head of news in 2004 …

    “….the broadcaster did not take the views of lobby group Migration Watch as seriously as it might have.”

    I could go on but I’ll summarise instead: BBC announce increase in racist hate-mongering directed towards immigrants.

  120. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Jul, 2013 - 6:51 pm

    A node; Didn’t Solomon propose that the disputed baby be cut in two?

  121. Ben,
    Ah, you thought I was referring to the biblical Solomon, famous for his wisdom.
    No, I meant Solomon Thickhead, our village idiot. He was surprised that some people on this blog couldn’t work it out for themselves.

  122. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Jul, 2013 - 8:42 pm

    I thought you were paraphrasing. I keep swinging at sucker pitches today.

  123. Kibo, can one be aware of the whole movement of life from the inner to the outer and like a wave returning the outer to the inner in one swoop?

    This is not about some new-age ‘inner practice’. It is about constant awareness, self-study/knowledge and being with the ‘what is’.

    Yes its very important to know and see whats going on in the world but to simply protest however loudly and collectively without observation and the inner rejection of the path-force of the river of humanity whose present paradigm is a path to destruction and ongoing suffering is pointless. The human consciousness is a very messy business.

    In other words collective change will only come one person/heart/mind at a time. And yes, you’re right there may be a tipping point in the collective consciousness there.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMbmHTy-OQE

    PS am very tired atm so not sure if i’m talking sense. Thats my excuse anyway. Stay well x

  124. Ben, Sorry.
    Having re-read my last post, I see that it could be read as if I was having a go at you. I wasn’t. I was trying to use your humorous reply to ridicule the behaviour of those who read every word of Mary’s posts in order that they don’t miss an opportunity to tell her (and us) how much they hate her writing. My attempted joke was pointing out how obvious the solution is.

  125. Tangentially On-Topic! Honest.

    Bear with me.

    In large horizon situations
    Each worker ant is a law unto herself
    Exploring the landscape in her own unique way
    Collective mind testing a maximum of new possibilities.

    In small horizon situations this same ant
    Seems restricted by the presence of others
    Clamping her rambunctiousness
    Crimping her path and tightening focus
    Becoming a thread in a search web zeroed on just one thing.

    Small Horizon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEfxb0wLEZg

    Large Horizon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsqsZCH36Hk (2 m 3s)

    Recognise any of that?
    ……………………………………………..

    @Villager. 9 08pm

    “PS am very tired atm so not sure if i’m talking sense.”

    You ain’t the only one. I read it twice and still don’t can’t work it out.

    @A Node. 7 41pm

    Solomon Thickhead. Is that The Solomon Thickhead, the one annointed to commandeer the collective perception. If so please mend my fused synapses with your wisdom.

    @Ben 8 42pm

    Just try to hold it together till Happy Hour will ya.
    Keep those questions coming.

  126. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Jul, 2013 - 10:40 pm

    A Node; You tickle me. No, I have been savaged by experts and believe me, you’re no expert.

    I never took it that way. But I think that question has to be asked more often by many more.

    Anyway, if I had taken offense, it should have been at myself for commenting on a post, just to be jocular.

    In that spirit let me conclude with this…….

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuUBCF3KKxc

  127. My wandering post has come home after a, hopefully brief visit to the Counter Revolution thread where I hope Jon trears it in the way it deserves.

    Back here I think it’s tangentially On-Topic! Honest.

    Bear with me.

    In large horizon situations
    Each worker ant is a law unto herself
    Exploring the landscape in her own unique way
    Collective mind testing a maximum of new possibilities.

    In small horizon situations this same ant
    Seems restricted by the presence of others
    Clamping her rambunctiousness
    Crimping her path and tightening focus
    Becoming a thread in a search web zeroed on just one thing.

    Small Horizon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEfxb0wLEZg

    Large Horizon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsqsZCH36Hk (2 m 3s)

    Recognise any of that?
    ……………………………………………..

    @Villager. 9 08pm

    “PS am very tired atm so not sure if i’m talking sense.”

    You ain’t the only one. I read it twice and still don’t can’t work it out.

    @A Node. 7 41pm

    Solomon Thickhead. Is that The Solomon Thickhead, the one annointed to commandeer the collective perception. If so please mend my fused synapses with your wisdom.

    @Ben 8 42pm

    Just try to hold it together till Happy Hour will ya.
    Keep those questions coming.

  128. technicolour

    5 Jul, 2013 - 1:22 am

    A Node:

    BBC announce increase in racist hate-mongering directed towards immigrants.

    I can only find a brief mention of this online: download.guardian.co.uk/g24/Media.pdf -

    Any way of taking a scan of the piece and uploading it here? (Too late to go out & buy one.)

  129. @ TECHNICOLOUR.

    That is disappointing, failute to define the needs and objectives of any individual and stymatise someone for there race is ridiculous.

    Ridiculous of the Bbc and they should no better.

    As you know; we all have the same needs.

  130. Sorry “ know“better.

  131. Here you go, Technicolour:
    http://ubuntuone.com/6y29f6zGP1KaJV19vOdvAG

  132. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    5 Jul, 2013 - 6:43 pm

    Hypothetical non-denial denial…http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2013/07/211535.htm#SNOWDEN

    QUESTION: But if the – if a similar situation were to happen involving Air Force One, it would be an international incident.

    MS. PSAKI: I’m not getting into a hypothetical. That’s not something that is currently happening that we’re currently discussing.

    QUESTION: Well, the approach to this question may be better this way – I still don’t think you’re going to answer it, but I think it’s going to put you on the spot more – (laughter) – than that question was because it’s not a hypothetical: Does the United States or would the United States condone breaches in protocols of diplomatic protocols of the Vienna conventions?

    MS. PSAKI: Well, Matt, this wasn’t a case where this was our airspace or this was –

    QUESTION: I understand that. But when the British Embassy is attacked someplace, you come out and say this is horrible, this is bad. When any number of infringements of diplomatic immunities and other protocols specified in the Vienna Conventions, when those happen you have – this government has in the past condemned them. So would the United States –

    MS. PSAKI: But Matt, some of these cases, the countries have said they didn’t shut down the airspace. So –

    QUESTION: Well, I mean, I’m not even getting into – I’m not even – it’s not clear to me that shutting down an airspace or not allowing transit is a violation of the Vienna Convention. But I’m just wondering – I don’t know that. But I just want to know, in a general sense, would the United States condone breaches of the diplomatic – of international diplomatic protocols?

    MS. PSAKI: Well, why don’t you – no, but why don’t you delve into where you’re getting at here, Matt? What are you trying to get at?

    QUESTION: I’m trying to get an answer to Roz’s question.

    MS. PSAKI: Okay, the hypothetical about Air Force One being denied –

    QUESTION: So the answer – the answer – but this – no, no, no, no. Let me – because this is not a hypothetical. If you are – if you can stand up and say that you are willing – the government is willing to say that it would condemn any violations of diplomatic immunities or the protocols in the Vienna Conventions, then –

    MS. PSAKI: Matt, I’m not going to get into a broad hypothetical with you.

    QUESTION: It’s not a hypothetical. It’s not a hypothetical.

    QUESTION: But this did happen. The President of Bolivia had to spend – I mean, sorry, Ecuador – had to spend –

    QUESTION: No, Bolivia.

    MS. PSAKI: Bolivia.

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