Work for the UN

by craig on June 17, 2013 10:25 am in Uncategorized

GCHQ and the NSA between them employ tens of thousands of people.  I am bemused by the shock at the “revelation” they have been spying.  What on Earth did journalists think that spies do all day? That includes electronics spies.

Since Katherine Gun revealed that we spy on other delegations – and the secretariat – within the UN building, it is hardly a shock that we spy on other governments at summits in the UK.  For once, the government cannot pretend that the object is to save us all from terrorism, which is the usual catch all excuse.  Nor in the real world is any of the G20 nations a military threat to the UK.  The real truth of the matter is that our spies – GCHQ, MI5 and MI6 – are themselves a large and highly influential interest block within the state.  Lots of people make a great deal of money out of the security state, and this kind of activity is actually simply an excuse for taking money from taxpayers – which is from everyone who has ever bought anything – and giving that money to the “security industry”.

I do not view spying on other governments as quite as despicable as spying on ordinary citizens, which is an unspeakable betrayal of the purpose of government.  Spying on other governments is a game they all play to extort money each to their own security elites.  But I will say that spying on the South African government seems pretty low.  Why?

Interception of diplomatic communications is plainly a gross breach of the Vienna Conventions, even if the forms of communication have changed since they were drafted.  I have never studied the particulars of international law as they relate to spying, but it seems to me an area that in the modern world needs regulation.  There must be room here for the UN to be involved in preparing a Convention to outlaw the interception of international communications, with recourse to the International Court of Justice for those victim of it.

There is more work for the UN on Syria.  We should all be grateful that Russia is holding out against the very dubious western claims that the  Syrian government has deployed chemical weapons.  But while Obama can declare all the red lines he wishes, they do not give any country a right to take action on Syrian soil without UN authority.  That needs to be restated, strongly.  There is no basis at all for the continued and massive Israeli attacks on Syria - they are absolutely illegal.  Israeli strikes have definitely killed more people than the alleged deaths from chemical weapons.  Can someone explain to me why that is not a red line?

The UN Secretary General should be speaking out, and the UN Security Council should be meeting, to discuss the Israeli attacks on Syria.  The system of international law has broken down irretrievably.

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  1. “The UN Secretary General should be speaking out, and the UN Security Council should be meeting, to discuss the Israeli attacks on Syria. The system of international law has broken down irretrievably”.

    Yes, they should and it has but …

    The UN has become powerless … if it was ever anything else … and Israel is a rogue state backed up politically, economically and militarily by the biggest, most powerful rogue state in the world.

  2. One mans red line is another mans blood.

    Good post again Craig.

    Maybe divorce emboldens Putin?

    Hope the heel is er…healing.

  3. Having been born in the ’50s and growing up until I was thirty-odd with the Berlin wall which they killed people for trying to get over, when the Stalinist excesses were still well within living memory and the Hungarian and Czechoslovak invasions more recent than that, I never thought that I would live to see the day when I would say “Thank God for Russia”.

  4. Russia’s radio and TV broadcasts are also filling gaps in “Western” MSM.

  5. Somebody had to pull all the threads together (and no i definitely do not mean the comments degenerating to a heel). Brilliant holistic view Craig pulling together various aspects and bringing cohesive focus to the role of the UN, international law and Israel’s liberties. The UN should also investigate the free flow of money from Saudi Arabia and other Gulf member states to the extremists, but of course that’s not about to happen.

  6. Your spell checker seems geographically challenged, Craig (paragraph 3).

  7. What do these thousands of employees of the state system do all day?

    They cannot be asking how can we be improving the quality of life for all people; considering environmental effects and sustainability.

    As with most, they are
    truly considering what delhi sandwich to have – and what healthy drink option to obtain.

    I can only see change with some major artistic, cultural, or economic invention, that stays uncompromised.

    Joy rates highly.
    Hope your getting better Craig, ease of the gas and your foot should improve.

    Hope maestro is well.

  8. ‘I do not view spying on other governments as quite as despicable as spying on ordinary citizens…’

    Maybe not, but is there not something deeply unpleasant in the shameless dishonesty here? – setting up bugged email cafes for G20 delegates? Imagine inviting a guest to your home and offering him the use of a laptop during his stay, and installing key-logger software to capture his log-on details and read his email. I suspect there is hardly a person in the country who would behave in such a despicable fashion to a guest, but it seems to be routine behaviour among the people who rule the country.

  9. With or without external interference, Syria has sufficient internal conflict now to ensure that any post-war settlement will require an aggressive enforcement of peace under a brutal regime. What can the UN do? Partition the country like we saw in Korea? Not many countries split or reunite without bloodshed. I don’t think Syrians will quickly forget their grudges so we might be looking at a couple of decades of misery before things improve for their people.

  10. “The strict surveillance that states once maintained over the activities of the citizenry have been shifted to other centers of power technically able (although not always legally) to find out to whom we have written, what we have bought, what trips we have taken, what our encyclopedic interests are, even our sexual preferences. The big problem facing a citizen’s private life is not hackers, which are no more frequent than the highwaymen who beset travelling merchants, but cookies and all those other technical marvels that make it possible to collect information about every one of us.

    If in Orwell’s novel Big Brother was an alegory for Stalin, the ‘little father’, the modern Big Brother watching us has no face and is not an individual, it is the global economy in its entirety. Like Foucault’s Power, it is not a recognisable entity but the combination of a series of power centers that accept the game, backing one another up reciprocally. The member of one center of power who spies on others making purchases in the supermarket will be spied on in turn when he pays his hotel bill with a credit card. When Power no longer has a face, it becomes invincible. Or at least difficult to control.

    Who wants their privacy defended? Those who have secret busines dealings, those who wish their personal correspondence to remain personal, those working on research that they do not yet wish to make public. We know all this perfectly well, but how many people call for this right? It seems to me that one of the great tragedies of mass society, of the press, television, and Internet, is the voluntary renunciation of privacy. The extreme expression of this renunciation is, at its pathalogical limit, exhibitionism. It strikes me as paradoxical that someone has to struggle for the defense of privacy in a society of exhibitionists.

    The fact is that the authorities who watch over our privacy need to defend not only those who wish to be defended but also those who no longer know how to defend themselves. It is precisely the behaviour of exhibitionists that tell us how much the assault on privacy has become -more than a crime- a social cancer. First and foremost, we should educate children to save them from the corrupting influence of their parents.

    But it’s a vicious circle. The assault on privacy accustoms everyone to the disappearance of privacy. Little by little we become exhibitionists, having learned that nothing can be kept confidential anymore and that no behaviour is considered scandalous. Those who are attacking our privacy, seeing that the victims themselves consent, will no longer stop at any violation.

    We must learn to work out, spread, and reward a new sensibility towards reserve, to educate people about reserve for themselves and toward others. Regarding respect for our own privacy, I’d like to quote the last phrase from the brief note left by Cesare Pavese before he committed suicide: “Don’t gossip too much.”

    Umberto Eco from the ‘The Loss of Privacy’ conference speech, Venice, Sept 2000

  11. It’s a bit optimistic to assume that the UN isn’t part of the problem in itself. Its agenda seems skewed, if not to say downright corrupt and if intelligence agencies adon’t respect their own governments, of what purpose would there be to suppose that anyone would respect the UN. It would just take agencies out of all administration, an arms length fuck you squad.

  12. Shin Bet operatives were/still are at Johannesburg airport.

    http://www.uruknet.info/?p=60365

  13. The system of international law has broken down irretrievably.

    This has been so for the last decade. The dying throws of the US empire has torn the mask of respectability and pretentious of adherence to laws and conventions ring hollow.

    The question arising: will the world recover from such a lawlessness, or will we spiral into an Hobbesian abyss?

    So far as the securofucks are concerned, these peeping toms, are out to only satiate their filthy voyeuristic penchants, at the expense of we the tax payers. Because any head of state, or foreign delegate damn fine well will know they are being spied on, and will act accordingly. Thus spying on these delegates is a purposeful activity akin to manufacture of chocolate fire-guards. However when there is free money and lots of it, who gives a damn?

    Although those sick malingerers taking up hospital beds and dying, ought not be getting a free ride from the state, and if they can so much as walk to the toilet unaided, they can damn fine well work too! Take away their sickness benefits, I say (cries the Tory/neo-labour/liberal tossers selected to attend the public trough called; the parliament); this is the way to save money!

  14. karel (conspiracy a day keeps idiocy away)

    17 Jun, 2013 - 1:27 pm

    richard,

    i share your amazement. If someone told me in nineteeneighties that I will watch RT one day then I would have considered him to be an imbecile. But it is all said by the prophetic Alan Price Everyone is going through the changes noone knows what is going on…

    more on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRRsKlSS3sc

  15. Must say I don’t understand most of this – e.g.. getting upset about GCHQ data-mining summits, not objecting to The Guardian’s censoring the more important bits, not being upset that the newspaper doesn’t see fit to post more important revelations when Snowden needs NOW all the exposure he can get, posters finally seeing some good in Russia as if it had never done any good while it was part of the USSr, etc.

    Would think that The Guardian would allow the documents to speak for themselves, be eager to post ones about whistleblowers who have been destroyed for leaking secrets about them, and that people in the West had some idea of who got rid of the Axis powers, and who saved us from nuclear war when the Iran-Contra plotters attempted to end the Cold War with a non-nuclear one a the expense Olof Palme and a few dozen others.

  16. I do not approve at all of allowing the mainstream media to filter leaks.

  17. Still waiting to see if Snowden has any revelations, and the media posts them about the unsolved or most inadequately covered up assassinations of whistleblowers Olof Palme, Dr. David Kelly, Anna Lindh, GMP Chief Constable Mike Todd, former Foreign Secretary Robin Cook, Stephen Hilder, Alexandr Litvinenko, Gareth Williams, Gudrun Loftus, Professor Steve Rawlings, etc., ad nauseam.

  18. Flaming June

    17 Jun, 2013 - 2:32 pm

    Haven’t heard from Craig’s old FCO mucker lately, or perhaps we have under a pseudonym.

    He’s currently obsessing about Russia on his Twitter.

    https://twitter.com/CharlesCrawford

  19. Well I’m a bit surprised ‘cos I thought in the Vauxhall Westminster areas for example that spies lolled about all day in zipped up largish RED HOLDALLS. Ah well you live and learn. Wonder if they’re investigating unsightly Pimlico washing lines? They seem to be causing consternation in some circles.

  20. Flaming June

    17 Jun, 2013 - 2:37 pm

    And on his Torygraph blog(oir) Europe.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/author/charlescrawford/

    How does he get time to eat what with all this tweeting and blogging?

    8 references to Craig Murray on his own blog(oir) and one to me!
    http://charlescrawford.biz/critics.php

  21. Oh, I want to get on Crawford’s listing too.

    How about this:

    Charles Crawford can mouth off about Russia from rural Oxfordshire until the ghosts of Stephen Hilder and Dr.David Kelly reappear, but it won’t change the fact that we would all be nuclear cinders if Vladimir Putin had not successfully managed KCB assets from Dresden when the non-nuclear conclusion of the Cold War was planned in the wake of Palme’s assassination in Stockholm.

  22. technicolour

    17 Jun, 2013 - 3:00 pm

    Tdg: great post, thanks.

    Of course, Russian intelligence spies on everyone too.

    Craig: agreed, the UN needs to raise and deal with this.

  23. Trowbridge H Ford, you left out Bernt Carlsson from your list of assassinated whistle-blowers. He was probably the main target of the Lockerbie bombing of Pan Am flight 103, because he was just about to give independence to Namibia from De Beers and the blood diamond exploitation of Africa.

    Unfortunately all spying and secret service activity is no longer funded solely by the taxpayer in the UK. There would be less of it if it was. We have followed the US and Israel in that the secret services, MI5 and MI6 set up front companies, often global, which are, and have to be, profit-making to be believable. The line is blurred but there must be a good book somewhere that tries to show, and separate, where MI5 and MI6 funding is involved, not just in espionage, but in the establishment of power-elites across the industrial and government spectrum, a bit like Andrew Kreig’s forthcoming book about CIA and other involvement (Karl Rove for example) in US political elites. Its called Presidential Puppetry and I wish he would hurry up and finish it.

    In the late eighteenth century and early nineteenth century visitors from all over Europe had the Soho Manufactory at Birmingham on their list of places of interest, very often to steal, if they could, the latest ideas. Matthew Boulton was aware of this but the difference was that in those days the demarcation lines between industrial espionage and government espionage were more clearly defined. Today it is a nightmare.

  24. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    17 Jun, 2013 - 3:40 pm

    Flaming June writes, à propos of Charles Crawford :

    “How does he get time to eat what with all this tweeting and blogging?”
    ___________

    A question I’ve sometimes asked myself about you, my dear

  25. Acknowledging the “system of international law has broken down irretrievably” one paragraph after calling for more international law is odd.

    Next, you’ll be recognising all politicains as corruptible whilst declaring your support for the next one.

  26. Habbabkuk @ 3:40 p.m. I hope you are not going to restart your insulting tirade having been the very last of those on this blog to recognise the identity of a certain individual comment-maker. It is out of order. Stay on topic. This blog is not for insulting individuals but for expressing topical views. If you bear bear that in mind life could be so so good.

  27. Thanks, John Goss, for the addition as it illustrates what you are saying.

    The Lockerbie tragedy also got rid of a CIA team which was throwing light on its most covert arms for drugs for money scheme which Oliver North’s Iran-Contra thugs were running, especially the Syrian al-Manucher (sp?) connection, and some researchers claim that Carlsson was involved in finding out who killed his close political friend, Olof Palme, an Anglo-American plot of the deepest dimensions.

    If you go back there, you could also talk about German politician Uwe Barschel and Swedish arms overseer Admiral Frederic Algernon.

    Our governments just run plots of an increasingly sophisticated nature.

  28. “but it seems to me an area that in the modern world needs regulation.” – Well, yeah, but, just as they get away with spying because it’s sectet, so they can (and indeed do) break existing law/regulation now and will break any regulation in the future. Any ‘regularator’ can easily be bought off or blackmailed or bribed or even better installed as a puppet in the first place.

    Better (perhaps) is a more powerful wikileaks where the spies have their stuff tufed out into the open.

    There used to be a poster at iraqwar.ru called ‘Spies and traitors will be shot’. It was an interesting nick.

    P.S. the UN is pathetic.

  29. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Jun, 2013 - 4:10 pm

    OT-Snowden on GG right now answering questions live…..I just can’t see replies.

  30. “It’s a bit optimistic to assume that the UN isn’t part of the problem in itself.” – Indeed.!

  31. Sorry, John, I was referring to Syrian Monzer al-Kassar.

    Got him mixed up with another Iran-Contra scum bag

  32. Over 93,000 dead in Syria so far but the UN should concentrate on Israel’s incursions…

  33. Phil

    International law is a wonderful thing. The alternative, which is to what we are now degenerating, is that the Americans and Israelis kill anyone they want and seize anything they want, because they can.

  34. Looks like the Guardian interview with Snowdem won’t get very far as he side stepped the question of the US government destroying whistleblowers, preferring to state that Washington had destroyed his chances of getting a fair trial, only to conclude GG’s question by stating his disclourses will get out even if it kills him.

    My question to him is: How does he know that previous whistleblowers have suffered this fate, and who does he have in mind and why?

  35. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Jun, 2013 - 4:49 pm

    Craig; Is there some reason for your lack of interest in Snowden? I know you had one post on it, but then….

  36. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    17 Jun, 2013 - 5:05 pm

    @ John Goss :

    “…having been the very last of those on this blog to recognise the identity of a certain individual comment-maker.”
    _______

    You’ve lost me. Can you expand, please?

  37. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    17 Jun, 2013 - 5:17 pm

    @ John Goss :

    “Stay on topic. This blog is not for insulting individuals but for expressing topical views”

    ___________

    Leaving aside the apparent contradiction between the injunction to “stay on topic” (ie, the topic of this thread) and the assertion that this blog (including this thread, presumably)is for “expressing topical views” (ie, any topical views on anything), could you tell me why you did not issue the same reproof to Flaming June, who posted an off-topic, irrelevant and implicitly insulting comment about a former UK ambassador called Charles Crawford?

    I hope you’re not applying different standards to different people? If you’d like to prove that you are not, I invite you to explain how Flaming June’s comment was relevant to the theme of this thread.

    Thank you.

  38. ‘The real truth of the matter is that our spies – GCHQ, MI5 and MI6 – are themselves a large and highly influential interest block within the state.’ I agree.

    But I think they go much, much further. A fire walled elite is involved in massive illegal economic activity much of which is put down to criminal gangs or Russian mafia etc.

  39. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    17 Jun, 2013 - 5:40 pm

    @ Ruth

    re your para 1 – I would agree that they are an interest block (as are any groups of professionals or corporations) but I’m less convinced of their high influence.

    re your para 2 – a serious and disturbing allegation. Would you like to be more specific and also point to what you consider to be concrete examples?

  40. On Sunday Agent Cameron spoke to British journalists saying, “The Syrian opposition have committed to a democratic, pluralistic Syria that will respect minorities, including Christians.”

    As I expected when Cameron abruptly aborted ‘WebCameron’ – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RU0QtvWKgx0 – a ‘family show’ fashioned to bring Prime minister Cameron nearer/closer to the British people he represents/embodies, yet heavily criticized for a complete lack of commitment to queries on hegemony, torture, extraordinary rendition and state control, referring instead to issue worthless scripted political statements.

    This man and his cohorts clearly lack empathy and thus zero consideration for the plight of those peoples stricken in the post-invasion aftermaths by the rampant Western powers hell bent on coveting world resources; Libya and Iraq are clearly blood-soaked examples.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/g8-summit-begins-vladimir-putin-accuses-david-cameron-of-betraying-humanitarian-values-by-supporting-syrian-rebels-8661048.html

  41. It turns out being destroyed by the government is what happened to Thomas Drake, William Binney, and John Kirakou who was even tried for leaking secrets, and sentenced to 30 months in prison.

    Still, according to Snowden, the country is somehow worth dying for.

    Count me out!

  42. Flaming June

    17 Jun, 2013 - 5:46 pm

    I do not tweet nor do I have a blog for the troll’s information.

    Charles Crawford is a recurring subject on this blog over the years but the troll, having joined as late as last November, probably does not know that.

    Amazing how he makes what he considers something off topic even more off topic by giving it emphasis by repetition.

  43. “Habbakuk” is a perfect illustration of the enormous amounts of spare time and arrogance that the Establishment’s security services have. The appointment of this rather dim but dogged character to bully one of our commentators ought to give “June” some satisfaction: her frequent, eloquent and wise interventions clearly rattle the tax scoffing scoundrels whom Habbakuk so admires.

    The troll himself should, however, be sent to Coventry. Do not feed him, tempting though it is to find fault with his nonsense. And spitting at him doesn’t work, as the screen on my computer, unfortunately, shows.

  44. International spying can’t be regulated.

    And that’s true a fortiori, if, as you say, the system of international law has broken down irretrievably.

    Which is not meant to imply that I know when you think the said system was working hunkydorily. Nobody thinks it was doing so when Italy invaded Abyssinia, or during WW2. During the Korean war maybe? Or the Malayan emergency? Kenya? Algeria? Vietnam? The Falklands? Has it ever done anything close to ‘working’ where Zionist crimes have been concerned, or crimes committed by officers of the US state?

    Even just keeping to the topic of electronic spying, let’s recall that one of the functions of the very fabric of the UK microwave network, since the early 1960s, has been to allow the NSA to get on with its job. That was after a short post-Suez blip followed the period after the UKUSA treaty, which itself was long kept secret.

    CIA and US military capability have been built similarly firmly into the British polity (to take an important example, the head of the CIA’s London station attends the weekly meetings of the Joint Intelligence Committee), as has Zionist capability into Britain’s parliamentary democracy, education system, media, and culture.

    But I share your view of those idiot hacks who are so shocked that NSA and GCHQ do their jobs.

  45. The Edward Snowden case sounds more and more like i said – i.e., he was caught by surprise by an FBI honeytrap – what entrapped defense contractor Ben Bishop in Hawaii – and when he learned that he was to pay a big price which only got back at the independently-minded Bureau, he threatened to go all out to expose the free-wheeling spooks, once he made his way to HK.

    His Guardian interview clearly showed that he is willing to settle for a process which bothered leakers like William Binney, Thomas Drake, and even John Kirakou, provided Washington drops the claims that he has contacted China’s Ministry of State Security, and stops connecting him to the Bishop case.

    If not, he is willing to take new steps as both a spy and whistleblower.

    Conisider the case essentially closed.

  46. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Jun, 2013 - 6:32 pm

    Trowbridge; very interesting idea wrt motivation. any links for your connectivity of thought?

  47. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    17 Jun, 2013 - 6:54 pm

    @ Chris2 :

    ““Habbakuk” is a perfect illustration of the enormous amounts of spare time and arrogance that the Establishment’s security services have. The appointment of this rather dim but dogged character to bully one of our commentators ought to give “June” some satisfaction: her frequent, eloquent and wise interventions clearly rattle the tax scoffing scoundrels whom Habbakuk so admires.”
    ____________

    I was tempted to let this piece of nonsense stand unanswered and will in fact do so, except only to point out the apparent contradiction between
    (1) claiming that I work for the security services (“the appointment”)
    and
    (2) suggesting that I’m on the outside looking in (“the scoundrels whom Habbabkuk so admires”).

    I take the opportunity of agreeing with Chris2 when he characterizes Mary’s interventions as frequent. Eloquent – well, sometimes (except it’s usually quotations); wise – rarely.

    **********

    La vita è bella, life is good! (greetings to all my fans)

  48. Thanks, Ben, you’re generally quite constructive.

    Well, I would certainly read about the on-going turf war between the Bureau and the CIA – what led directly to the 9/11 fiasco, and Director Robert Mueller in the midst of this crisis saying it could have bee prevented by proper surveillance.

    The biggest reason why it didn’t happened is because of the Palme assassination fiasco, and the belated spying it ultimately uncovered, first that by CIA’s Rick Ames, and then that by Robert Hanssen just before Mueller took over and 9/11 occurred.

    I am only able to offer my own work because all other researchers are either asleep or corrupted.

    See my double article in Issue Eight of Eye Spy magazine, my articles on the spying and belated capture of Ames and Hanssen on codshit.blogspot.com, and the continuing wars on it, Veterans Today, and Flying Cuttlefish Picayune.

    Then read that article about the Ben Bishop and Snowden cases by LAT’s reporter Maria I LaGonga.

    Then go through the Guardian interview with Snowden.

    And if I think of anything else, I shall add it.

  49. Edward Snowden’s revelations come as no surprise having read L.Fletcher Prouty’s book The Secret Team, written back in 1972.

  50. What is worse is that these so-called ‘intelligence’ agencies are not only spying – they also make use of the information collected.
    Maybe one day we shall all hear the more horrifying story about how these intercepted communications can be used and manipulated.

  51. ‘I do not view spying on other governments as quite as despicable as spying on ordinary citizens, which is an unspeakable betrayal of the purpose of government. Spying on other governments is a game they all play to extort money each to their own security elites.’

    I do regard it as despicable. I think it is absolutely abhorrent. Call me naive if you must, but the key to providing a free and open society — a ‘liberal society’, if you will — is frank and open disclosure about the inner workings of government; and that includes the machinations of the security services. I understand that certain aspects of government must be kept secret: nuclear launch codes, the location of military facilities, important financial assets, etc. But I think, if we want to live in a less paranoid planet, if we want to live in a society of equals, then we need to take the first step in renouncing the overuse of surveillance against citizens and foreign governments. Let other bankrupt states play the game if they wish. Let them tap into the emails, phone records, and encrypted messages of state leaders. Let them engage in high risk espionage and low intensity operations. We, however, should have none of it. Liberty should never be traded for security unless it is absolutely necessary (the definition of which should remain for the public to decide). For the simple truth is that states, and the intelligence agencies attached to them, generally try to safeguard an immoral and sadistically twisted elite. They thrive in the dark, as you well know.

  52. ‘The system of international law has broken down irretrievably.’

    The system of international law was never entirely fit for purpose. Multiple violations have taken place since its ad hoc construction over the years, and millions of lives have lost under the sustained gaze of the legal community. This points to the fact that international law is nothing more than a tool in the arsenal of imperial power. When it secures are interests, we follow it. When it does not, we quibble about its wording or infer it proceeds from a corrupted source. If that fails, we violate it root and branch and then create amendments in our interest. The law cannot stop war, cannot sustain the system. Only a well educated, compassionate, and critically minded public can do that.

  53. “Only a well educated, compassionate, and critically minded public can do that.”

    Gawain, now thats about the wisest thing thats been said on this blog for a long time and thank you for raising the level of the conversation here.

    Educated in my view, as Einstein put it, all you know once you’ve forgotten everything you’ve learned at school. Then one can be critially-minded, as in creative and fresh. Real compassion can then flow from such a state of mind.

    Agree with the rest of your comments too and we need to start with the reality of where we are, as you say, “The system of international law was never entirely fit for purpose.”

  54. “Flaming June
    17 Jun, 2013 – 5:46 pm
    I do not tweet nor do I have a blog for the troll’s information.

    Charles Crawford is a recurring subject on this blog over the years but the troll, having joined as late as last November, probably does not know that.

    Amazing how he makes what he considers something off topic even more off topic by giving it emphasis by repetition.”

    I thought Flaming June only arrived this month!?

    Anyway, no matter how long you have patronised this blog, it doesn’t absolve your responsibility to provide context. Or, stay on topic at least for a few hours, as a matter of courtesy to others.

  55. Craig 17 Jun, 2013 – 4:36 pm
    “International law is a wonderful thing.”

    Tell that to a palestinian with a straight face. Or a Sudanese, Iraqi…etc, etc, etc.

    International law is just more law – by the few for the few. Power is never restrained by law. Empire writes, changes and ignores the law. It is an illusion of some justice to keep good people on board.

  56. “Edward Snowden Q&A: NSA whistleblower answers your questions”
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/17/edward-snowden-nsa-files-whistleblower

  57. Phil, eloquent observation. You point out quite rightly the difficulty/impracticality of accessing ‘international justice’. Thanks for helping put one’s finger on it. A total illusion indeed.

  58. Flaming June

    17 Jun, 2013 - 9:16 pm

    Thanks Chris 2. I changed from my real name to attempt an escape from the troll’s unpleasantness. Failed. Anyway this blog is not about me,as I have said before, and the troll’s attention has been unwanted throughout.

    As June has not been very ‘flaming’, at least where I live, I will return to my real name in July.

    :::::

    Villager May I say that what you said about me was not very Krishmamurthy of you. ;)

  59. Flaming June

    17 Jun, 2013 - 9:28 pm

    Julian Assange prepared for five more years in embassy, says Ecuador
    Foreign minister Ricardo Patiño says situation is ‘totally unjust’, as talks arranged between British and Ecuadorean legal experts

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013/jun/17/julian-assange-five-more-years-ecuador

    AND

    Julian Assange: Ecuador will continue to grant asylum
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22940650

    Julian Assange is to stay in the Embassy. Poor man. He is imprisoned. All the news channels could say on the matter this afternoon was about the high cost of the policing and who should pay for it. The answer is obvious. Let him go.

  60. doug scorgie

    17 Jun, 2013 - 9:35 pm

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)
    17 Jun, 2013 – 5:40 pm

    You reply to Ruth:

    “I would agree that they [GCHQ, MI5, and MI6] are an interest block (as are any groups of professionals or corporations) but I’m less convinced of their high influence.”

    Surely you’re not implying that GCHQ, MI5 and MI6 are mere lobbyists that have no more influence than other “groups of professionals or corporations”?

    They are an integral part of the state whose job is to spy on unsuspecting individuals and organisations.

    Their power and influence lies with the nature of information (intelligence) directly or indirectly collected which can be used by the state for various good or nefarious purposes.

    The “right kind” of information can be used to threaten, bribe, blackmail or entrap powerful figures in the justice system, the police, the government, MPs, political parties, high profile activists; the opportunities are endless both at home and abroad.

    Information is power.

    “Do not seek for information of which you cannot make use.”
    (Anna C. Brackett 1892)

  61. Flaming June

    17 Jun, 2013 - 9:43 pm

    Meant to post this before. It’s a video from last week’s Ch 4 Newa. Caspar Bowden has worda of wisdom and gives us information on what powers the US are taking and against which the individual has no recourse. He is warning us.

    http://www.channel4.com/news/data-spying-are-we-being-told-the-truth-video

  62. Trowbridge H Ford. He, Monzer al Kasser, seems like a nasty piece of work.

    Considering Africa makes me think of that other arms-running leech, Tim Spicer, who is now a private army contractor for the US in Iraq protecting US stolen oilfields there. These sub-humans are not worth your spit.

  63. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Jun, 2013 - 10:05 pm

    Trowbridge; I tried to look at your articles, but was defeated by registraion.

    The issue with Bishop is interesting. I know CIA uses illicit sex charges to gum up the works, but I’m not sure it works in reverse with Snowden. I accept the slight possibility Snowden was fleeing, but there is nothing I can see (HuffPo also did Bishop) which dissuades me from believing Snowden’s the real deal. Thanks.

  64. Unbelievable – and no doubt coming to a country near you …

    ‘How Shell is trying to send a chill through activist groups across the country’

    “This summer, the 9th Circuit Court in California is weighing the question of whether companies have the right to take preemptive legal action against peaceful protesters for hypothetical future protests. This will be an extraordinary decision that could have a significant impact on every American’s First Amendment rights …” [continues]

    http://grist.org/article/how-shell-is-trying-to-send-a-chill-through-activist-groups-across-the-country/

  65. Flaming June: “Villager May I say that what you said about me was not very Krishmamurthy of you. ”

    How would you know — you can’t even spell his name! And a couple of months ago after giving you some info you asked for, your reply was “Even Krishnamurti.” When asked several times to clarify, you ignored requests. Anyway as K would say you have too much monkey chatter going on, hence we see you all over the place; no cohesion. Always quoting quoting quoting copying pasting frenetically and yes peppered with your snide remarks that debase the subject.

    I do feel sorry for you that you see this as your life’s work just when i felt sorry Habba would take you to task once too often. But i’m disappointed at the arrogance you display and your dishonesty when you said i hauled you over the coals for not using punctuations. Do you want me to copy Jon’s advice for you again. Dreolin also pointed it out a couple of times gently and you brushed her aside and half nasty.

    Old age is all about wisdom, but its never too late to take a look in the mirror. Its how we learn — in the mirror of relationship. Feel free to quote me on Krishnamurti if you want but before you do be honest and try to ‘get it’ first. “even Krishnamurti” — you can still explain.

  66. Found almost all the articles on codshit.blogspot.com.

    Just google one of the articles, say why it look so long to catch ames and hanssen, and once you have finished it, just go to the names of the authors on its right, and once you have found my name, just go through the 163 articles on file.

    I am not saying that Snowden is not a real spy – only became one after the Bureau set him up in a honey trap so that he was made to look like one.

  67. How does a troll-pack work?

    Today’s “Preparing to Bomb Syria” thread shows it as clear as day.

    Villager. Multiple personalities or what?

    June. Don’t let them get under your skin.

  68. And btw lets be clear Habbabkuk is not a troll so when people use that word they only show their weakness in not being able to stand up to his questions or arguments.

    On abuse, i haven’t seen any one else have more abuse showered on him but he’s proven that he can rebut it without enjoining them in their lowered standards. Thats because he is in addition to being very intellectual he is highly articulate.

    I’ve also come to see that he has a great sense of humour, sometimes even self-deprecating, and uses it very effectively to diffuse tensions. Compare that with Chris2 spitting at his computer screen, how desperately low can you get?

  69. “Villager. Multiple personalities or what?”

    I’ll take that as a compliment. Just plain flexibility of mind, the ability to see things how they are, objectively without the fear of a pack and a herd mentality.

    Be original bring some fresh insights, but please don’t punish us with your poetry any further.

  70. Craig wrote:

    “Lots of people make a great deal of money out of the security state, and this kind of activity is actually simply an excuse for taking money from taxpayers – which is from everyone who has ever bought anything – and giving that money to the “security industry”.”

    National governments, especially that of the US, are now the biggest buyers of software vulnerabilities, and presumably the invasive malware required to exploit them:

    http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/05/10/usa-cyberweapons-idINDEE9490AX20130510?type=economicNews

    “If the U.S. government knows of a vulnerability that can be exploited, under normal circumstances, its first obligation is to tell U.S. users,” Clarke said. “There is supposed to be some mechanism for deciding how they use the information, for offense or defense. But there isn’t.”

    In order for the government to exploit vulnerabilities discovered in major software, they cannot disclose those vulnerabilities to the manufacturers or the public, lest the exploit be fixed.

    Off topic: why Jack Straw should pay Abu Qatada’s legal aid bill:

    http://thejusticegap.com/2012/12/abu-qatada-legal-aid/

  71. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Jun, 2013 - 10:55 pm

    Trowbridge; Whew! That’s a lot to digest. Gonna take a while, but it’s an impressive body of work you have there.

  72. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Jun, 2013 - 10:57 pm

    Clark; I was just going to email and see wtf you’ve been up to. :)

  73. A ramble through the weeds…

    Were the spambots that used to plague this site before Tim and Co sorted it, more than merely random spambotic activity? Who knows? Anyway, as the regular oldies (oldies, that is, in terms of specific blog-age rather than necessarily chronological age), I used to enjoy talking insouciantly to the spambots in their own, unique tongue. I ultimately got some exasperated flak for that (when I accused a spambot of being an upper-class spy) from the poster who used to be known as ‘Richard Robinson’. Where did he go? Is he still with us in another guise, or has he evaporated into the fragmentary, ancient songs of nettle and weed?

    But on a more serious note, yes, the security industry is massive and expanding and (this is relatively new) promotes itself relentlessly. Think of Sawyers-in-Speedos; that was a PR offensive aimed to make Sawyers seem like an ordinary and nerdish ’1970s-man’ human being like you or I (though perhaps your first chloice would not be Speedos) or like those ‘David Bedfords’ in the long-running TV advert for a product which, for the life of me, I cannot – do not wish to – remember.

    Likewise, the tale put about of the recently retired MI5 Chief having to wait around in a security queue at an airport when he returned from holiday – a Regular Joe, you see? There cannot be anything sinsister about a Regular Joe, you see! The security services hire PR companies for this specific purpose.

    Think too of the FSB’s deep – systemic – involvement in organised crime. But as Ruth suggests, it’s not just Russia. As a cohort, ‘Russians’ seem to get a bad name in Britain, while the Chinese get a good press. This is all silly. And, one imagines, ‘we’ (or rather, ‘them’ who rule us, spy on us and take our labour and run…) also consist of variegated configurations. Well, you know, there are parts of – people in – the FSB and its domestic equivalent that/ who actually do their job properly, and then there are parts that basically murder and destroy people. I’m not suggesting that MI5 and MI6 are quite on that level and no doubt there are principled officers who do their jobs as best they can – though maybe Ruth knows something wrt organised financial criminality most of us do not. In which case, I do wish she would write that explosive essay I’ve been urging her to write for ages and post it somewhere prominent – go on, Ruth! Or perhaps Courtenay knows more – offshore havens, laundering, etc.? Of course, Roderick Russell – who has an excellent piece in the current Lobster magazine – has first-hand experience of the hard state, over in Canada.

    Naturally, the function of the security services is firstly to their own empire-within-an-empire and secondly to preserve the preserve of those who own big things and who help ensure the security/intel complex continues to be bankrolled – white, grey and black monies. The early 1990s in Britain a time of fear for the spooks. But that period of uncertainty ended in September 2001. The core aspect of the ‘industry’ is the systemic intimacy b/w the private security sector (in which I would include mercenary ex-Special Forces-type outfits, like Blackwater, or Sweetmeat, or Sour Grapes, or Nannies-on-Acid, or whatever it likes to call iself these days – but there are many, many others) and the hard state. Criminality, it seems to me, is inherent, in terms of both form and content. It is nomative. We should expect no different. The end-target is the human spirit. Cultivate the human spirit and you defy the entire weight of the hard state: Butterfly.

  74. Right, don’t even try to read it all -just what strikes your fancy.

    And just remember that little of it was even properly proof-read because I am the world’s worst in that department, and none of it was edited.

    I just had to express what I really thought about things after having lived for years under the censoring eyes of academe.

    If you are inclined to sue because of brain damage, I am willing to settle out of court.

  75. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Jun, 2013 - 11:20 pm

    Well some graf-breaks and white space would help,, but the brain-damage has long been water under the bridge. Again I say;
    outstanding work.

  76. @Villager. 10 49pm

    …”don’t punish us with your poetry any further.”

    Apologies there. I hadn’t intended it to be read as poetry. I just wanted to be brief as I’ve other matters to deal with tonight. You’ll have noticed I’ve given the poetry a rest for a good while now.

    My point was that it seemed to me when I skimmed through the day’s thread that you and Habbakuk seemed clearly to be working as a team, especially in respect of your usual target.

    I also found it revealing that as soon as Sofia got serious and asked you a simple and pertinent question which was for once, as she admitted, “on-topic” you both disappeared, leaving Kempe to try to clean up your mess.

    Now tonight you are both hard at work trying, as usual, to distract Flaming June. This time you have slipped into your righteous Krishnamurti persona.

    I can’t believe I’m the only one who can see this but I wanted to briefly draw attention to how you work.

  77. @FlamingJune
    I like Chris 2′s point. Habwonks’s relentless pursuit is a compliment to your one woman news dissemination service.

    Habwonk does intrigue me in one respect. The colloquial sometimes goes over his head and he uses pretentious words awkwardly, so I speculate he is a (youngish) man with (good) english as a second language. This makes me wonder if PR companys are outsourcing their troll hiring (much like the call center industry did twenty years back). A unit in, say, Mumbai would be a very tempting saving over a Soho basement to the likes of bell pottinger.

    @Kibo Noh
    I agree. Villager’s defence of Habwank is ridiculous. Perhaps they really are the same person. Or on the same team. The old bad troll less-bad troll one two. Give us a sign Jon. Are we warm?

  78. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    17 Jun, 2013 - 11:33 pm

    @ Doug Scorgie (21h35):

    “You reply to Ruth:

    “I would agree that they [GCHQ, MI5, and MI6] are an interest block (as are any groups of professionals or corporations) but I’m less convinced of their high influence.”

    Surely you’re not implying that GCHQ, MI5 and MI6 are mere lobbyists that have no more influence than other “groups of professionals or corporations”?”
    __________

    No, of course I’m not calling them mere lobbyists (although I’m sure that they lobby government). You’ve possibly misunderstood me : I was using the words (“interest block”) Ruth used and in the same sense as Ruth used them.

    BTW, you’ll recall that the second half of my post went on to ask Ruth a question. As you have taken a flattering interest in our conversation, perhaps you’d now care to answer my question on her behalf as well?

    ************

    La vita è bella, life is good!

  79. Ramble all you want Suhaly Saadi.

    Lucky for our JJonathan ‘Bob’ Evans aka William Perkins that he didn’t run into me with his guard down, as he would been calling for it as I continued to press him about who was responsible, and how had the deadly helicopter crash occurred at the Mull 19 years ago.

    Evans is the worst of Britain’s so-called counter terrorists.

    And countries’ intelligences services should be judged on a case by case basis.

  80. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Jun, 2013 - 11:48 pm

    Suahayl; ‘Butterfly Effect” or Muhammed Ali (float like a butterfly)? Seriously, I get it. Mark refers to an aspect of that approach as ‘the power of intention’.

  81. Kibo, you poor deluded thing. Hope all that you’ve been smoking at least helps you sleep well. Go read some more detective novels and sharpen your ability to see things as they are. Meantime sign-up as a card-carrying member of the June and Sofia act — it’ll give you a sense of belonging. And perhaps give your shoddy little life some meaning.

  82. Phil. 11:29 pm

    “@FlamingJune…one woman news dissemination service.”

    You bet!

    ……………

    Here’s an observation from the “Preparing to Bomb Syria” thread earlier today.

    @Sofia Zabolotna-Habbercake. 4:14 pm

    “Habbabkuk and Villager

    At 1 51pm I asked…”tell us why you are avoiding the issue of the fake “Assad uses sarin so we have to save them with our bombs” plot?”

    For once I was on-topic and I think the question was appropriate.

    In the two hour period before that, between you, you sent 5 posts, containing zero information.

    In the two plus hours since then you sent zero posts, but managed to provide us with just as much information.

    I wonder what could all that mean?”

    ……………….

    Just how stupid do “the Laurel and Hardy of these threads” think we are?

  83. A quick eyeball of today’s new blog and Mary/June’s on topic contribution:


    Flaming June
    17 Jun, 2013 – 12:30 pm
    Shin Bet operatives were/still are at Johannesburg airport.

    http://www.uruknet.info/?p=60365

    And the link with a 2009 ‘NEWS’ item!

  84. @Villager 11 48pm

    …..”And perhaps give your shoddy little life some meaning.”

    While I was writing that last post your Krishnamurti mask seems to have fallen off.

  85. Phil. another poor little insecure toad — yes go running to Jon he’ll give you the facts but your insecurities will remain. Try it!

    In summary, is that all you can contribute? Calling people trolls when you can’t stand up to them. May you raise your levels of insight — thats my prayer for you.

  86. Hotairballoon

    You obviously know that the wind travels at different speeds and even directions at different altitudes. Same as politics. Craig is kindly sharing his observations about high altitude politics with us, but you find it difficult to do more than bum over the grass.
    It’s so kind of you to share the secrets of courting dung flies you observe as you skilfully rise over the annoying cowpats of life with us.

  87. Kibo don’t venture towards Krishnamurti, not for children.

  88. @Gawain

    “The system of international law was never entirely fit for purpose. Multiple violations have taken place since its ad hoc construction over the years, and millions of lives have lost under the sustained gaze of the legal community. This points to the fact that international law is nothing more than a tool in the arsenal of imperial power”.

    Never a truer word was spoken.

    Don’t watch television any more but made an exception for this, this evening, on BBC 4:

    “The Law in These Parts:
    Documentary examining the legal system developed by the Israelis in the Occupied Territories”.

    It was a perfect example of your post … interviews with retired Israeli (mainly) military judges who (had) tried to square the legal circle … to deliver injustice, punishments and judgements that were illegal under international law while twisting and turning the law in order to claim that the ‘system’ was legal under international law.

    Sickening.

  89. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    18 Jun, 2013 - 12:03 am

  90. I don’t know how stupid we really are, Kibo Noh, but one thing must be said for the not forgetting about the al-hillis thread has achieved – it isolated the worst of them, and is apparently killing some of them off from internet exhaustion.

  91. … JJonathan ‘Bob’ Evans aka William Perkins that he didn’t run into me with his guard down ….

    Is he the same Evans from the D division? The same guy who was a friend of your favourite P. Wright?

    BTW I don’t buy into Peter being the KGB mole. Further, what say you about the Tara Group, and the Kincora pimps hosts? Wright should have known about it, saying as he was interrogating Blunt for six years. However, have you any data or any hints as to Blunt’s assignment in Germany on behalf of a certain house, that is verboten to be talked about?

  92. Blaming America for sponsoring and arming rebels in Syria will not leech the source or seeds of asymmetric terrorist warfare. America is primary motivated by the petro-dollar, power and domination because it has and can. Corporate America understands and embraces the Zionist political thought, approach and technique.

    Deception has lived on earth since the dawn of time. The earliest impact of cunning was the Judas kiss of intermarriage between Canaan and Egyptian Pharaoh, kept secret for a millenium.

    A modern day example of cunning was the Zionist-Hashemite alliance of the 1930s and 1940s. This was a convergence between the interests of Israel and those of Hashemite Transjordan against other members of the bickering Arab coalition, and especially against the Palestinians. The original Hashim clan ruled the Hejaz region of Arabia which later was incorporated into Saudi Arabia.

    This tiny historiography I think gives us a unique perspective of modern day Middle East nuance and the ‘war on terrror’ duplicity combined with an agonising awareness and recognition the Jewish State was built on the ruins of the indigenous people of Palestine, whose livelihood, houses, cultures and land had been systematically destroyed. The exodus of Palestinians was in fact a flight from destruction and genocide.

    Making sense of the assembled pieces and winding the clock forward, taking in Saudi money and Saudi arms deals on the way, we arrive at the Takfiri (atoning) movement, the Saudi General Intelligence, Prince Bandar, Bush and the Al-Nusra Front.

    Thanks to funding from the Saudi General Intelligence Department and support from the Saudi Intelligence in Lebanon, al-Nusra was able to swiftly arm its forces, and make the Syrian regime suffer painful blows through its expertise gained from Iraq bombings and death squads assisted by British and American intelligence and special forces muscle.

    Does it not make sense to heavily arm these terrorists and exploit the Saudi gifts of oil reserves, opulance, wealth, luxury, riches and gold?

    Yes, to many(1%) it does, regardless of the humanitarian suffering, tragedy, torment and loss of freedom the world over.

    Ask Blair.

  93. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    18 Jun, 2013 - 12:30 am

    Well said, good Mark. Context is what’s missing from most opinions du jour.

  94. Phil
    “Habwonk does intrigue me in one respect. The colloquial sometimes goes over his head and he uses pretentious words awkwardly, so I speculate he is a (youngish) man with (good) english as a second language. This makes me wonder if PR companys are outsourcing their troll hiring (much like the call center industry did twenty years back). A unit in, say, Mumbai would be a very tempting saving over a Soho basement to the likes of bell pottinger.”

    You are treading on very dangerous ground here, although I personally think you are correct.
    I recently tried an experimental Assalamu Alaykum on him, but he avoided a knee-jerk response. I have been heavily criticised by my fellow under-dog-lovers for suggesting that my fellow Muslims hate the caring, intelligent side of the English people because it’s so much easier to label us all as heathen, grasping, lying, colonials.

    My conclusion is that Heebijeebs is a Pakistani who is paid to be cynical about UK values and portray them as hypocritical. And that he himself is a fully paid-up member of the Wow-Wahabi sect which also considers itself above the rest of us Muslims.

    There is a class system in sub-continent Islam between Gujus ( low, farm types and Rajas ( managers ). So I suspect that his persona thinks he is well above the highest characters from any of us. I presume he crawls back into the cowpat of his own superiority at night to feed on nutrients that higher life-forms, viz cows, have pre-digested for him. Nice work if you can get. But he never strikes me as having grasped the niceties of rational, humanitarian concern which this blog represents.

    I’m waiting for the fan-assisted cowpats to rain down and calls for the deletion of my comments. I have saved this one so if it is deleted by my disgusted coleagues, I can re-post it. This is really how low the intelligence agencies are stooping, not the sending weapons to Al Qaida bit, but the funding Muslim trolls on ex-Ambassador’s whistle-blowing comments pages.

  95. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    18 Jun, 2013 - 12:34 am

    Howdy there Guano, nice to have you back with us again! I was getting worried that Fisons had got you bagged up and that you’d been spread over a field somewhere.

    *************

    La vita è bella, life is good!

  96. Must be the same Evans.

    And don’t forget that Wright also made Richard Helms, the most dangerous DCI because he bought Wright’s crackpot realism about what the Soviets needed, and were doing.

    And I don’t care if you “buy” into my ideas about him.

    I am not running some bargain sale in a store – I am discussing the Soviets’ leading spy – what made the British elite look the world’s leading collection of idiots.

    This is what I know, and is verboten for Brits to talk about.

  97. @Villager. 12:00 am

    “Kibo don’t venture towards Krishnamurti, not for children.”

    On the strength of your example do you imagine I’d be remotely tempted?

    I visit this blog because I respect Craig’s commitment and observations and find so many valuable things out from other posters. It helps me make sense of the world I live in.

    I suppose I should just learn to scroll through obvious spoilers so I have only myself to blame. But I have to admit it bothers me to witness the constant campaign to disrupt and bully the genuine contributers.

    So I have to hand it to you. Tonight you have a small success and I fed you.

    Tomorrow you’ll still be spending your energy trying to upset people. I’ll have my finger ready with the “scroll down” button.

    “Dad. What did you do during the years of the Global Corporate Coup.”
    “Son. I worked hard to maintain deluded narratives to make sure that power remained with my masters.” Wow! What a legacy!
    …………………….

    To all who make this blog wonderful. Thank you. You have my respect.
    Goodnight All.

  98. Hazza

    Groomed any pasty teenagers recently? Clever stuff this spying, with a little bit of s**t on someone you can get them to do almost anything.

  99. I am not running some bargain sale in a store – I am discussing the Soviets’ leading spy – what made the British elite look the world’s leading collection of idiots.

    Now then, now then, then now! Getting tetchy and go on about commercial transactions.

    The Brit were made to look a collection of idiots long before that, Maclean, Philby, Burgess, Blunt,…..* However the question put to you so far is not answered (not demanding an answer, if you wish not to divulge); about Blunt’s secret assignment in Germany.

    * And before that there was there was the little matter of the nuclear spies.

    PS. Peter is a rabid fascist remember.

  100. “Howdy there Guano, nice to have you back with us again! I was getting worried that Fisons had got you bagged up and that you’d been spread over a field somewhere.”

    LOL Habba where do you pull these one-liners out from?!

  101. Flaming June
    17 Jun, 2013 – 9:43 pm

    “Meant to post this before. It’s a video from last week’s Ch 4 News. Caspar Bowden has words of wisdom and gives us information on what powers the US are taking and against which the individual has no recourse. He is warning us.”

    Interesting video June.

    I found General Jonathan Shaw a bit of an odd ball; chair-swivelling, overconfident, blasé even and he didn’t know about PRISM even while head Cyber-security at the MOD.

    Why was he on the show?

  102. “you and Habbakuk seemed clearly to be working as a team” — Kibo Noh

    I don’t see any such thing. And I agree with Villager when (s)he says

    “On abuse, i haven’t seen any one else have more abuse showered on him but he’s proven that he can rebut it without enjoining them in their lowered standards.”

    I have not seen 1/10th the abuse from Habbabkuk as I have seen thrown at him/her. Some people here don’t practise what they preach, unfortunately.

    And while flinging the word “troll” around, they ignore the most common piece of advice on the internet:
    “Don’t feed the troll”

    It’s becoming a pain in the neck. And it’s not the fault of Habbabkuk who rarely, if ever, indulges in ad hominem.

    Meanwhile Mary objected to the word “vagina” when its use had nothing to do with her. I mean, come on, for god’s sake …

    And yes, either blockquotes, or italics, or quotation marks, would be useful in deciphering Mary’s comments. [She has taken recently, sometimes, to adding a single apostrophe at the beginning of what I assume are copy and paste items, but frequently she doesn't "close" with another apostrophe, so it's useless. One still doesn't know what's her and what's quotation.]

    I can only assume that refusing to use any method of identifying her copy and paste is sheer bloody-mindedness or arrogance. She did tell me she didn’t need “lessons in style” and then said, “so tough”. But unfortunately, she does need such lessons. Or else, she needs to get off her high horse.

    PS And Mary knows how to use italics, as she used them in a recent thread.

    PPS And no, I’m not ‘in cahoots’ with Villager whom I don’t know from Adam. And I only post under one name.

    Here, Ben, take the floor. I’m off to bed.

  103. Kibo, don’t forget to take your pink blankie with you to bed, after having hit us so hard with your limp noodles you really deserve a good nights wallowing in your deep ignorance.

  104. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    18 Jun, 2013 - 1:05 am

    “Here, Ben, take the floor. I’m off to bed.”

    Holy shite, Dreoilin. How’d I get roped into this?

  105. “VIOLENT PROTESTERS TRY TO DISRUPT SUMMIT!” … That’ll be the flavour of the headlines generated by the G8 summit meeting in N. Ireland.

    My partner and I went down to Glen Eagles the last time the G8 was held in Britain. Eventually we got through the roadblocks, police searches and misc. police harassment and joined the protest march. Thousands of us made our way towards the hotel, the route becoming more and more constricted by higher and stronger fences as we approached the heavily guarded entrance gate. There was time for a bit of half-hearted fence rattling and lots of heartfelt slogan chanting around the gate before moving on and letting those coming up behind have their symbolic moments in the sun.

    A hundred metres past the gate, the route took a right down a street which would return us to the starting point where the buses were waiting. On one side of the street was a field which, unlike the rest of the route, had no security fence. It was a beautiful day and rather than return to the start immediately, two or three hundred people had gone into the field to hang around, mostly just sitting on the grass. On the other side of the street, in three of the gardens, were scaffold towers with TV cameras on them, pointed at the field. I was a bit puzzled by this, I couldn’t figure out why the cameras were there rather than in a location which had a view of the main gate where all the action was. It soon became apparent.

    At the far side of the field, from behind some trees, hundreds of police appeared, some on horses. They formed into a long line and began moving towards the protesters in the field. A couple of minutes later, over the rooftops came two fucking great Chinook helicopters, the double-rotored ones you see in Vietnam movies. They made spectacular landings at different points in the field and dozens of police disgorged from them. Police from three directions converged on those absolutely peaceful protesters and waded in with shields and batons. I saw dozens bleeding as they were driven from the field.

    Sure enough, the evening news had spectacular TV footage of the airborne delivery of our bobbies, come from on high to save us all from violent anarchy, all faithfully recorded by those ‘fortuitously’ situated cameras. I’d been part a choreographed illusion. They’d written the script before we arrived, and we all unwittingly played our parts. Never underestimate the bastards.

    And never trust double agent Bob Geldof.

  106. :)

    Sorry, Ben. I know you’re in another time zone. So you could be here for another while. Me, I’m wrecked.

  107. I am not the least bit excited about one-line updowns.

    I have not done nor care to do work on Blunt who I consider by far the least important one of the so called Magnifisant Five, though I will give Blunt a renewed look when my books finally arrive from Sweden.

    And you apparently have not read my article on Wright where I claimed that he was the most important of the Soviet atomic spies.

  108. BrianFujisan

    18 Jun, 2013 - 1:19 am

    The most recent interview with Assad Dated 17th June

    Interviewer: Mr President, Britain and France claim to have clear evidence that chemical weapons have been used. The White House has stated that it possess information to ascertain this claim, which consequently led to the death of 100 to 150 people in one year, in addition to that you have denied the UN investigators access to areas in Syria except for Aleppo. How do you explain the situation?

    President Assad: Let’s begin with the statement from the White House regarding the 150 casualties. Militarily speaking, it is a well-understood notion that during wars, conventional weapons can cause these number of deaths, or even higher, in a single day, not in a year. Weapons of mass destruction generally kill thousands of people at one given time; this high death toll is a primary reason for its use. It is counterintuitive to use chemical weapons to create a death toll that you could potentially reach by using conventional weapons.

    America, France, Britain and some European officials claimed that we have used chemical weapons in a number of areas. Regardless of whether such weapons exist or not, we have never confirmed or denied the possession of these weapons.

    Had they obtained a single strand of evidence that we had used chemical weapons, do you not think they would have made a song and dance about it to the whole world?, then where is the chain of custody that led them to a such result?

    These allegations are ludicrous. The terrorist groups used chemical weapons in Aleppo; subsequently we sent an official letter to the United Nations requesting a formal investigation into the incident. Britain and France blocked this investigation because it would have proven the chemical attacks were carried out by terrorist groups and hence provided conclusive evidence that they (Britain and France) were lying. We invited them to investigate the incident, but instead they wanted the inspectors to have unconditional access to locations across Syria, parallel to what inspectors did in Iraq and delved into other unrelated issues. We are a sovereign state; we have an army and all matters considered classified will never be accessible neither to the UN, nor Britain, nor France. They will only be allowed access to investigate the incident that occurred in Aleppo.

    Therefore, all the claims relating to the use of chemical weapons is an extension of the continuous American and Western fabrication of the actual situation in Syria. Its sole aim is to justify their policies to their public opinion and use the claim as a pretext for more military intervention and bloodshed in Syria

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/president-bashar-al-assad-fighting-terrorism-in-syria-rebuilding-in-the-wake-of-the-crisis-interview-with-the-frankfurter-allgemeine-zeitung/5339481

  109. Hazza Babe

    It isn’t just naughty NSA and CCHQ doing the spying is it? I know they get free vehicle, diesel, travel time. The obvious people to spy on Muslims would be Muslims wouldn’t it. But that would be a little bit too haram for your high stinkiness.

    Selling brother Muslims is reserved also for cleverer minds than your own, who use Takfir, which does not mean atonement Mark. It means declaring that your brother Muslim is not a Muslim and cleaning your conscience about selling or harming him.

    Yes , if you can get a bit of tasty muck about someone, you can force them to do any and every kind of major sin/crime. You’re on a winner dude!

    The ordinary police on the beat are fully involved in the intelligence acquisition process, converting minor sexual demeanours like shagging skinny teenagers and looking at porn into blackmail to troll on conscience blogs like this one and bus down to GCHQ offices to work on spying.

    What if you’ve got a war-crime on your MI6/CIA/ex-dictator’s files. You could be turned into a groomer for Zionist Jihad. Sorry Haz, I’m not talking about you here. I’m talking about your minders/friends.

    Muslims routinely spy on other Muslims, to avoid exposure of their own misdemeanours and to recruit/dupe the faithful into helping the neo-con narrative of Muslim terror.

    Haz, I know you love the job, the pay, the camaradie of crime. It’s not everyday you can get paid for insulting respectable, intelligent, caring females. But you know what they say about perfume, it rubs off on you if it’s a nice one, and if it isn’t so nice, it still sticks around.

  110. May I plug my recent article in the Summer Edition of Lobster Magazine?

    “Canada’s Spy Agency gone rogue: Prime Minister Harper couldn’t care less”

    http://lobster-magazine.co.uk/free/lobster65/lob65-canadian-spy-agency.pdf

    http://www.lobster-magazine.co.uk/issue65.php

    To my mind, the pre-requisites for democracy are elections, a free press/freedom of speech, and rule of law. We seem to have forgotten in Canada that without the rule of law we cannot be a democracy.

  111. Flaming June

    18 Jun, 2013 - 4:56 am

    On Israeli interference in the Syrian conflict.

    Sapping Assad’s strength
    Israel stirs the pot in Syria

    by Jonathan Cook / June 17th, 2013
    http://dissidentvoice.org/2013/06/sapping-assads-strength/
    .

  112. Flaming June

    18 Jun, 2013 - 5:42 am

    MoD serves news outlets with D notice over surveillance leaks

    BBC and other media groups issued with D notice to limit publication of information that could ‘jeopardize national security’

    The Guardian, Monday 17 June 2013 20.54 BST
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/17/defence-d-bbc-media-censor-surveillance-security

  113. @GF “What is worse is that these so-called ‘intelligence’ agencies are not only spying – they also make use of the information collected. Maybe one day we shall all hear the more horrifying story about how these intercepted communications can be used and manipulated.

    If you wait until you hear the story, you’re fucked.

  114. Questions for Scottish nationalists here:

    1) will GCHQ, SIS, and MI5 be retained as UK (or Scot-plus-rUK) bodies, allowed to operate in Scotland? You say you don’t know? OK, so are you going to make it an issue? I mean now.

    2) as you know, big business interests control the UK state, including the public authorities in Scotland, which are just as corrupt as all the other public authorities in these islands? Are you going to ensure that this gets undone, somehow? Are you going to make it an issue? I mean now.

    3) never mind ‘Euro’ questions that have saturated the political pages in the media for so long – what about the US military and intelligence presence in Scotland? Are you going to make it an issue? I mean now.

    You know what they say – to change something, you’ve got to recognise it first.

    Over to you.

  115. Kibo Noh

    “To all who make this blog wonderful. Thank you. You have my respect. Goodnight all.”

    You’re welcome. Goodnight and God bless. :)

  116. Clark, good to hear from you again and thanks for including the link to Abu Qatada’s legal costs and why Jack Straw should pay them.

    Put succinctly the question is, and I’ve been asking it too, what is Abu Qatada’s crime?

    http://newsjunkiepost.com/2013/05/03/is-hatred-of-islam-the-uk-home-secretarys-religion/

  117. Before certain individuals suggest that my previous comment is off-topic if they read the link that Clark posted, it questions whether one of the reasons the government want to get rid of Abu Qatada or keep him locked up is a suggestion that he worked for the secret services, which is tangentially bang on.

  118. Spying is not only our duty, it is acting on knowledge gained from spying.

    If the Rotherham rape gangs were spied on more by everyone concerned; there blatant and fragrant avoidance of social justice mayhave been avoided….

    Nosey bastards.

  119. Whhhhheeeeey Agent Cameron has thrown a hissy fit; Cameron wants Syria peace plan, with or without Russia:

    “It’s a clarifying moment to see what kind of commitments the Russians are willing to make in a leading world forum,” said one official before the dinner.

    But if consensus couldn’t be reached it was possible a final statement at the end of the two-day summit might be released without Russia’s input and in the name of the G7 rather than the G8, officials indicated.

    The butter up before the upper cut is delivered by toadies assigned to deliver the “ultimatum”; we will go it alone! The causes beli delivered:

    The West had repeatedly clashed with Russia over how best to end the conflict in Syria with Moscow thwarting attempts to condemn Assad in the United Nations while selling weapons to his army.

    U.S. President Barack Obama sparred with Russia’s Vladimir Putin over how to end the fighting on Monday during an icy encounter at the summit where divisions over the conflict eclipsed the rest of the agenda.

    In other words Putin has not been selling out for some beads, mirrors, and fire water (The high margined Red Indian transactions are still sought, and highly in the vogue), and instead he has taken the line: get stuffed, fuck this for a game of soldiers!

    The desperation of the bunch of ne’er do wells in G something (G20, G8, G7 reminds of; ten green bottles hanging on the wall, nine green ……) is almost palpable, they cannot get the war they want, and the stamping feet and hammering fists on the table episode is fully under way.

    The world domination, has to wait for a while longer yet. The slight miscalculation of the masters of the universe is; The world has grown fucking sick and tired of the perpetual war for the sake of supremacy of a bunch of wankers who never thought beyond the invasions, and smash and grab phase.

    FFS It is more than a decade into the twenty first century, and it seems the belligerents are pissed off their plans for a hundred years war is getting thwarted. Give me fucking strength.

  120. Sofia Zabalotna-Habbercake

    18 Jun, 2013 - 9:12 am

    Obama and Putin at G8. The photo says it all.

    http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/68225000/jpg/_68225654_68225653.jpg

    Thanks June.

  121. O/T

    Jemand posted a link on another thread to the film which set out to discredit Assange and how it is losing money at the box office.

    http://www.technewsdaily.com/18368-wikileaks-film-flop-scores-on-bittorrent-sites.html

    Shame! That is, shame on them for ever having produced it.

  122. Flaming June

    18 Jun, 2013 - 9:44 am

    O/T?? Perhaps the O/T policemen will rule.

    Karzai takes control over all military operations in Afghanistan. The wily old devil survived to the end.

    There are 97,000 ISAF forces present and the Afghan forces number 320,000. Jonathan Beale BBC, reporting from Kabul, has just said that 3 – 4% of the number desert each month. If he really meant that 10,000+ become deserters, they will all be gone within a year? Unbelievable.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22942013#

    Slimeball Rasmussen was there to give the official handover. Why weren’t Bush and B.Liar there too to see completion of their flawed project?

    All those lives lost over the last 12 years and all the billions of £s and $s down the drain.

  123. Flaming June

    18 Jun, 2013 - 9:53 am

    Cheering news there John about Gibney. Perhaps he would like to experience incarceration himself. There was jeering last night on Sky News when they were reviewing the papers. Ms Botting, Pierce of the Mail and the Mirror’s McGuire were all having a good laugh at Julian and his plight.

    Medialens on the film at the end of last month.
    http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/thread/1369617541.html

    Gibney has been prolific. Wonder who funded his new flop?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Gibney

  124. Thanks John Goss regarding the box office failure of Alex Gibney’s film “We Steal Secrets: The Story of Wikileaks”.

    According to the link John posted above, various torrent websites (including http://isohunt.com) have facilitated copying of the film and this is believed to have had an impact on the box office receipts for the film.

    ATTENTION: While there is almost zero chance of you being prosecuted for downloading an unauthorised copy of the film and it is very easy and quick to do so, and you probably wouldn’t pay good money to watch this propaganda anyway, downloading and viewing the film is not encouraged by me, Craig Murray or anybody else here. Visiting the website and viewing the download availability is not illegal so I do encourage anybody to do this for research purposes.

  125. There is a lot of tabloid stuff in the Irish Independent about the Obama clan visit. viz.
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/first-lady-michelle-obama-touches-down-in-dublin-with-daughters-29350499.html

    The BBC have a headline
    ‘Irish boy struck dumb by First Lady Michelle Obama’ !!!

    Then I saw this and SCREAMED.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/obamas-accept-bonos-invitation-to-dine-in-dalkey-29352204.html

    ’18 June 2013 – The sleepy South Dublin village is used to seeing famous faces, but today is to play host to the world’s most famous family, as the Obamas are expected to take up an invite from Bono and stop off for lunch.’

    in the light of:

    Bono and GM and Monsanto
    http://gaia-health.com/gaia-blog/2012-06-02/bono-sides-with-monsanto-and-agribusiness-to-complete-africas-destruction-with-gmos/

    Bono and Africa – Monbiot
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/17/bono-africans-stealing-voice-poor

    Facts about GMOs http://dissidentvoice.org/2013/06/ban-gmos-now/

    Q. Will Monsanto et al benefit from an enlarged EU/US trade area? Silly question.

  126. Is the Irish press more craven than the British, or just the same?

    The Irish News, a Northern Irish paper, is owned by the Northern Media Group. It has a net worth of ‘net worth’ of £-7,228,610 ???
    Directors https://www.duedil.com/company/NI059747/northern-media-group-ltd/people

    Its article on Obama’s speech to the schoolchildren is discussed here.
    http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1371547161.html

    The Irish Independent is owned by the O’Reillys AFAIK, previous owners of the Independent in this country.

  127. I remain baffled by the position of progressives with regard to the surveillance state. On the one hand they are appalled. ‘How dare they spy on us,’ they say, as if the saying is enough to hold power to account. On the other hand they then follow up their legitimate criticisms with the caveat — the MASSIVE caveat – that ‘well, I understand that we need a surveillance system if we are to protect citizens, so we must temper our complaints.’ Not once do they realise that this equivocating attitude ALWAYS allows the thugs in through the back door. It enshrines the tentacles of the secret state in law.

    Now, if we are really serious about tackling the current junta that is in power, and if we are serious in aiming to reform the system for the better, then we must actively destroy the surveillance system as it currently exists. We must move towards open government, open media, encourage full and frank disclosures from whistleblowers, and rigorously define the legal parameters — leaving no uncertainty behind — of spying. Under no circumstances must we fall back on the idea that millions of pounds must be spent on shoring up the apparatus of the surveillance state. State secrecy should not just be limited, it should be defunded. Spying networks currently in force should be disbanded and investigated by the public. Secret courts should only be established if it can be proven — beyond reasonable doubt — that the revelation of intelligence ‘will’ harm the nation as a whole. We can start by setting up the equivalent of the Church Committee in the US, and by undertaking a major public investigation into illegal spying activity. RIPA must be revisited.

    Enough with the double standards. The security state is almost always against our interests. We must wake up to this fact, and fast.

  128. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    18 Jun, 2013 - 11:33 am

    @ Gawain

    “The security state is almost always against our interests.”
    ________

    An interesting thought. Would you care to expand on it and when so doing set out when you think the security state is IN our interests?

    Thank you.

  129. “Russia and China, having learned their lesson, are protesting Washington’s assault on Syria that Washington pretends is a “civil war.” If Syria falls, Russia and China know that Iran is next.

    Iran is Russia’s underbelly, and for China Iran is 20% of its energy imports. Both Russian and Chinese governments know that after Iran falls, they are next. There is no other explanation for Washington surrounding Russia with missile bases and surrounding China with naval and air bases.

    Both Russia and China are now preparing for the war that they see as inevitable. Washington’s crazed, demented drive for world hegemony is bringing unsuspecting Americans up against two countries with hydrogen bombs whose combined population is five times the US population. In such a conflict everyone dies.”

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2013/06/17/washington-is-insane-paul-craig-roberts/

  130. I take an interest in the world around me
    You gather intelligence
    He she or it spies.

  131. John Goss, I dare you to ask that question – What crime has Abu Qatada committed? – on the Geurrdian’s CIF. It could well get you moderated and you’ll certainly receive lots of rather unsavoury yet non-specific replies. I’ve been asking the same question for some time now and can only conclude that like another chap who was born in Bethlehem, he is seen as a threat to the ruling elite with what he has to say.

  132. Paul the Questionner

    18 Jun, 2013 - 12:32 pm

    I have serious doubts about your expertise if you really think Russsia or China are standing out for principles of International law to protect civilians and democracy in Syria. They are just afraid of losing multimillion weapons contracts. Weapons and monies that’s what they are standing out for.

  133. Abu Qatada may have worked for our intelligence services. It is time for white people to stand up for Muslims who are being held without trial under the Anti-Terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001 and then the Protection of Terrorism Act 2005. Muslims, understandably, are concerned that if they protest they may likewise be wrongfully imprisoned. I have just raised the following FOI to find out why Abu Qatada has been made by the media, and Theresa May, to look like a criminal. There is a Follow button if anyone wants to keep informed of the progress of this FOI request.

    https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/abu_qatadas_crime_or_crimes/new

  134. Villager
    18 Jun, 2013 – 12:52 am

    “Howdy there Guano, nice to have you back with us again! I was getting worried that Fisons had got you bagged up and that you’d been spread over a field somewhere.”

    LOL Habba where do you pull these one-liners out from?!

    I count that as three lines in two sentences. Fatuus vicum.

  135. Yanks, when not debasing & torturing the very meaning of words, also like to corrupt rational logic itself;

    “it says it does not have the evidence to try but are too dangerous to release”

    US reveals Guantanamo ‘indefinite detainees

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22949561

  136. So…a D Notice was slapped on the BBC and other broadcasters (today’s Guardian). I’m assuming the terms of a D Notice mean that you cannot even talk about a D Notice? I ask that because there is no mention of reporting restrictions on the BBC.

    One thing that has occurred to me is the way in which the BBC have reported the Snowden leaks. The corporation has either a) parroted what is already in the public domain or b) “top lined” the official reaction to the leaks from Hague, Cameron et al. At no time, so far as I’m aware, has the BBC conducted its own investigation into the leaks, covering the broad nature of the 197 reports generated by Prism, for instance. Perhaps this was part of an assurance they gave the MoD when the D Notice was issued — the Beeb could hardly ignore the story, after all. Or perhaps they just don’t have the staff to devote to such a trivial matter…

    I feel one of my mantras coming on: The BBC is an arm of the state — don’t trust it.

  137. @Doug,

    Credit where credit is due; the chief troll has no doubt been rewarded by his handlers for getting the some of the regular posters here to support him, but responding about him to his new fan club, is the same as engaging with the troll clown itself; best to ignore in both situations.

  138. Perhaps I can add a smile that is on topic

    From Melbourne

    WHISTLEBLOWER – feat. mc Edward Snowden [RAP NEWS 19]
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnMPQmIPibE&feature=youtu.be

  139. Abu Qatada may have worked for our intelligence services.

    Sure as heck Omar Bakri Mohammed worked for the SIS. Also the little weirdo who has been droned in Yemen not so long ago.

    Further, added to the list of the new concentration camp inmates ought to be Abu Hamza, who has had his prosthetic hands taken off him, because the jailers have found his hooks could be “dangerous”, and he is finding it difficult to; feed, wash, etc himself. (as per wapo gloatingly).

    These people along with 500,000 other Muslims (as per wapo) are spending their lives in the new concentration camps dotted across the planet, whilst no one gives a shit. We all are good “Citizens” now.

  140. Dreoilin, thanks for the Rap News – pretty well done, I thought.

  141. I think that Abu Qatada’s problems with Britain’s security state go back to the 3/11 bombings in Madrid when he, a source for Scarlett’s MI6, was talking to co-religionists there who often came to Britain, and this persuaded the Brits so much that it was going to occur round London that they persuaded Aznar’s ( remember that jerk?) people not to worry about an attack there!

    When they occurred there, during an election campaign, Aznar was toast.

    Ben, you might find in my file a takeoff about it in Private Eye Letter from no. 10 style worth a read and even a laugh about the terrible tragedy.

    As for me asking The Guardian about it, I have long given up on the process since my comments were always pre-moderated, and rarely posted. So much for comments being free!

  142. Flaming June

    18 Jun, 2013 - 2:44 pm

    Should Joanna Gosling, a presenter on the BBC News Channel a) declare an interest when she is commenting on political affairs as she was earlier today or b) be doing the job anyway in the light that her husband is one of Agent Cameron’s spin doctors?

    ‘Craig Oliver, the Prime Minister’s embattled Director of Communications, has been told by his friends to put his family before his job, lest his marriage go the way of other Downing Street denizens. Craig is married to the BBC News presenter Joanna Gosling, with whom he has three children. The unrelenting 24/7 pressure of his Downing Street job spinning for the PM is, Craig himself admits, “a lot of stress”…

    Ironically David Cameron pledged in opposition “to make the UK the most family-friendly country in Europe” yet has seen the marriages of his former press secretary Gabby Bertin as well as that of his “gatekeeper” Kate Fall break up. Kate is the chillaxing PM’s hardworking deputy chief of staff. It looks like Osborne will need to find money in the budget to hire more staff to lighten the workload if Downing Street is to really be a family-friendly workplace.’

    http://order-order.com/2013/06/17/craig-told-put-family-before-cameron/

  143. Flaming June

    18 Jun, 2013 - 2:47 pm

    Also on GF, Mercer declares a payment from Alastair Andrews Communications. A fake name, a fake address and a fake job are all on the register apparently.

    http://order-order.com/2013/06/18/mercer-declares-2000-payment-from-fake-sting-company/

  144. Just glanced through The Guardian’s comment thread on its interview with Snowden, and it is really alarming with posts being removed because they did not abide by the rules, many having notices to other posts by the poster without the original one being there, and, of course like in my case with it, we know nothing about the ones which were ruled out beforehand.

    Is this just the biggest part of the data-mining operation by NSA/GCHQ to locate the real, probable troublemakers, thanks to the newspaper’s unprecedented assistance?

    Too bad that Orwell isn’t around to exploit the new Big Brother developments!

  145. Flaming June

    18 Jun, 2013 - 2:58 pm

    It’s supposed to be the G8 so why are there ten of them? Because they invited Herman and Jose to join in.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/shortcuts/2013/jun/18/g8-leaders-caption-competition

    Wonder what Terry Fuckwit said that caused it to be removed?

  146. Flaming June

    18 Jun, 2013 - 3:02 pm

    Yes Trowbridge, very handily for GCHQ/NSA etc a comment trail is collected.

    eg Terry Fuckwit
    https://id.guardian.co.uk/profile/terryfuckwit/public?activity-stream=comments

  147. technicolour

    18 Jun, 2013 - 3:12 pm

    sweet rap :) thanks dreoilin

  148. technicolour

    18 Jun, 2013 - 3:15 pm

    and John Goss, thanks too – agree.

  149. Macky, more than half of the Guantanamo detainees held in permanent detention are Yemenis though two have them have died there. The poet, Adnan Latif, was from Yemen. He died in Guantanamo having spent more than a third of his short life in the merciless clutches of the US military.

  150. Just think go this poster, say Mohamad Qatada and using the user name Silent Sam) posting this response to The Guardian interview with Edward Snowden:

    Silent Sam: “Snowden is just another false hero who should be killed like all the West’s phony heroes.”

    Mohamad Qatada is related somehow to Abu, and the security services have long wanted to get him in any kind of way not only because of the 3/11 fiasco but more importantly because they so over-reacted to the tragedy in Operation Crevice that they converted some of them who frequented that internet cafe in Crawley, especially those around Leeds, that they carried out the 7/7 bombings.

    The Guardian’s moderators pre-moderate Silent Sam’s post, and hope that he will add to it, and he does, posting something like this:

    Silent Sam: “It is just IT types like Snowden at GCHQ who could have stopped the 3/11 attacks in Madrid if they had not been so interested in setting up my third cousin, twice removed, Abu Qadada.”

    This post is also held back until he adds ones that are less inflammatory and have elicited sympathic responses from others. Then The Guardian posts the first response, and others which have attracted others, and have gained approval from many unknown ones – people whose identity can easily be determined, giving MI5 people much to work with.

    I’ll think about doing a much bigger post about the possibilities that GO would think worthy of note.

  151. Sorry it should have read “two of them (Afghanis) in the list died there”.

  152. Excuse the opening confusion of the previous post – have GO on the brain this morning.

  153. Flaming June

    18 Jun, 2013 - 3:53 pm

    Why the secrecy? Has this something to do with the Tommy Sheridan case?

    http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/u/news/andy-coulson-in-glasgow-court-on-perjury-charge.1371566029

  154. doug scorgie

    18 Jun, 2013 - 4:46 pm

    Macky
    18 Jun, 2013 – 12:54 pm

    @Doug,

    “Credit where credit is due; the chief troll has no doubt been rewarded by his handlers for getting the some of the regular posters here to support him, but responding about him to his new fan club, is the same as engaging with the troll clown itself; best to ignore in both situations.”

    Sorry Macky but I don’t know what you are on about.

    It would help me and others here if you, and others, referenced time and date) the posts that you refer to.

    @Doug, just doesn’t do it.

  155. Just had another post about The Guardian and its chief spook David Leigh scrubbed by secret government’s manipulation of security as I looked before posting to make sure that the CAPTCHA check was right, but it still disappeared.

    Looks like my posting days here are numbered.

  156. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    18 Jun, 2013 - 4:51 pm

    Trowbridge; Is this the one?

    Why America’s NSA and Britain’s GCHQ Had Gareth Williams Assassinated

  157. Dreoilin 18 Jun, 2013 – 1:03 pm
    Nice RapNews link. It’s good to see young people fighting mainstream propaganda inventively.

    Re; Afghanistan. Apologies if you’ve seen this but here’s a film about the preparedness of the afghan forces for nato withdrawal.

    This Is What Winning Looks Like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja5Q75hf6QI

  158. @John Goss, re Guantanamo, I would have thought that the US max security prisons would be more than enough to act as a deterrent, even to those who embrace death, for what’s worse than the living death torture of life-long solitary confinement, but perhaps Gitmo is used as a frightener; check out the interregation scene at about the 7.30 minute mark in this;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vym3Xk4lgS4

    @Doug, nevermind; forget that I ever addressed you.

  159. No, Ben, though it is worth reading for the background to the Snowden Affair.

    I was talking about a letter that Denis Thatcher might have written after the 3/11 bombings.

    It’s called Emperor Antony Has No Clothes, as I recall, and appeared on codshit at the end of March, 2004.

    Really worth a read, even at this late date.

  160. Pretty much agree Craig. Link below to my own blog post on why overthrowing Assad by force will just lead to continuing sectarian civil war and atrocities and strengthen Al Qa’ida, as in Iraq and Libya – and also a power sharing peace plan based partly on Lebanon to add to Kofi Annan’s 6 point plan
    http://inplaceoffear.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/a-power-sharing-peace-plan-for-syria_18.html

  161. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    18 Jun, 2013 - 6:47 pm

    @ Flaming June

    “Should Joanna Gosling, a presenter on the BBC News Channel a) declare an interest when she is commenting on political affairs as she was earlier today or b) be doing the job anyway in the light that her husband is one of Agent Cameron’s spin doctors?”
    ___________

    The answer to these questions is
    a) no
    b) yes.

    Thank you for your information on, and link to, various peoples’ marital problems.

    The relevance to the subject of this thread is obvious.

  162. Glanced at the coverage The Guardian provided Genera Keith Alexander testified before a House Committee, and the newspaper allowed most suspect posts to appear, contrary to its own rules.

    Take the three comments by Westernworldrulz where he advocates someone European taking US nuclear weapons away by force, and goes on immediately with two more most provocative posts about living anywhere else, even Turkey, and still wanting marching on Washington to make sure that changes occur. The stuff is so good that The Guardian did replace the first post with a notice about the two others.

    Westernworldrulz is either a Western European troublemaker its data-miners could be investigating or a provocateur to produce real ones like him.

    I urge posters to steer clear of what The Guardian is helping unless you don,t care about being killed, possibly going to prison or just don’t give a damn. I’m too old to really worry about it.

  163. Didn’t read the last post over before posting it – answering an inquiry at the back door about a wounded man on the run in the neighborhood, and wanting to know if I know anything about it! – so there are two errors in: General Alexander, and the paper did NOT replace Westernworldrulz’s first post with a notice about the other two.

  164. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    18 Jun, 2013 - 7:17 pm

    @ Doug Scorgie :

    “Villager
    18 Jun, 2013 – 12:52 am

    “Howdy there Guano, nice to have you back with us again! I was getting worried that Fisons had got you bagged up and that you’d been spread over a field somewhere.”

    LOL Habba where do you pull these one-liners out from?!

    I count that as three lines in two sentences. Fatuus vicum.”
    _____________

    Doug, you’ll recall that on several occasions in the past I’ve advised you to invest in a good dictionary.

    I regret to note that you haven’t followed this excellent advice. Had you done so – I would again recommend the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary (2 vols) – you would have been able to look up the word ‘one-liner’ and find the following definition :
    “a short joke or witty remark”.

    You see? No mention of the number of lines required.

    Looking on the positive side, though, your post did make it clear that you are able to count at least up to three. Keep it up!

  165. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    18 Jun, 2013 - 7:44 pm

    @ The Scourge and Villager :

    As an earnest of my magnanimous character and forgiving spirit, I offer the following one-liner in accordance with the Doug Scorgie definition (“a one-liner can have only one line”) :

    “LOL Habba where do you pull these one-liners out from?!”

    “I don’t know, but, mutatis mutandis, not whence Guano issued”.

  166. Who’s the current Director of the Joint Terrorism Analysis Centre?

    JTAC is a semi-detached agency, based in Thames House, the MI5 HQ, but with an autonomous structure. Its staff include people from SIS and GCHQ, and it’s called an “interagency”. It’s responsible to the director of MI5 but not part of the structure of MI5.

    It’s not to be confused with the Office for Security and Counter-Terrorism, which is part of the Home Office, headed by Charles Farr, formerly of SIS, who has ruffled lots of feathers.

    A former head of JTAC was Mary Calam.

    JTAC decides on threat levels, and mirrors the US National Counterterrorism Center, except that in true British style, it’s more secretive. For example, it doesn’t run a public database akin to the NCTC’s Worldwide Incidents Tracking System. And it seems to keep the identity of the person in charge pretty quiet too.

    Anyway, who’s the head of JTAC now?

  167. According to David Attenborough millions upon millions of cockroaches live entirely on nutrients brought into caves from the outside world by bats and deposited as guano. Saves Habba venturing out into the real world.

  168. doug scorgie

    18 Jun, 2013 - 8:37 pm

    Flaming June
    18 Jun, 2013 – 3:53 pm

    Mr Coulson was detained at his London home in May this year and driven more than 400 miles by officers from Police Scotland to Glasgow.

    I wonder if it is only the English cops that do “arrest by appointment”.

  169. Flaming June

    18 Jun, 2013 - 8:55 pm

    Doug :) but as Guido Fawkes says

    Guido Fawkes ✔ @GuidoFawkes

    Be careful what you say – you don’t want to be on Contempt of Court – Andy Coulson %$#@!+&%$#@@!$%&#@@+@$%%@
    Careful now…

    ~~~~

    Anyone know anything about this Orwellian sounding set up?
    CSARN – City Security and Resilience Networks. I see a few senior members of police forces in the lists of speakers.

    http://www.csarn.org/Advisory.html

    Much jargon. http://www.csarn.org/bps.html

  170. Flaming June

    18 Jun, 2013 - 9:03 pm

    David Swanson writes about ‘Drones for Christ’.

    Drones for Christ
    by David Swanson | July 2013

    How Jerry Falwell’s Liberty U.—the world’s largest Christian university—became an evangelist for drone warfare.

    ‘I asked Young about drones’ most common use today, namely war fighting. “Is that kind of drone use Christian?” I asked.

    “I can only offer my perspective as a Christian,” he replied. “UAS are like any other aerial vehicle that can be used for a variety of missions including law enforcement, aerial surveillance, search and rescue, and crop spraying as well as for military reasons. As a former military combat aviator, I believe that UAS can be employed just like a manned aircraft and that there should not be a distinction between the two.”

    A brochure promoting the Liberty School of Aeronautics features a photo of Dan McCready, First Lieutenant USAF, who is quoted, “Since I was very young, I’ve dreamed about becoming a pilot in the U.S. Air Force. Liberty’s aviation program gave me the opportunity to make my dream a reality, helping me to realize that I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.”’

    http://sojo.net/magazine/2013/07/drones-christ

  171. Shame that you’re promulating the party line that spying is a political activity. It isn’t, it is simply the enablement of theft through obtaining inside information and similar.

  172. Is that Evening Times article correct? Wasn’t it last May – 2012 – that he was driven 400 miles to be questioned at Govan Police Station, Glasgow. In which case of course it was officers from what was then Strathclyde Police, not Police Scotland. Why would he be driven 400 miles by the police to attend court, they’re not providing taxi or chauffeur services are they? I suspect (and the Evening Times have considerable woeful form for inaccuracy) this online article was done by someone sent along to work there, for JSA money plus bus fares.

  173. Now The Guardian has posters responding to that war criminal, ultimate scum bag John Bolton.

    The spooks must be going bonkers with all the leads it’s generating.

    Should change the discussion section to this: Comment Is Likely Jail!

  174. Flaming June

    18 Jun, 2013 - 9:34 pm

    Cryptonym The BBC say the journey was in May last year.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-22956043

  175. I thought so ty Flaming J, f-ing amateurs.

  176. Just in:

    “The US is to open direct peace talks with the Taliban after more than 10 years of war in Afghanistan, senior White House officials announce.”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/

    I wonder why they didn’t have direct peace talks ten years ago.

    Strange that.

  177. It might not all be bad news. At least this is promising because the organ of government (BBC) has broadcast it.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22960826

  178. For comedy value Marko Attila Hoare (yes that’s his real name) on the Guardian’s Comment Is Free arguing that anyone who’s against arming the rebels is pro-Assad, claiming Hezbollah carried out the attack on Israeli tourists in Bulgaria despite Al Qa’ida claiming responsibility for it – and well, too many other factual errors to repeat again (i posted a comment under the article on them)

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/18/boris-johnson-syria-arming-rebels

  179. Re Flaming June’s comment re Guardian Caption competition (18 Jun, 2013 – 2:58 pm), I like the entry:

    If you all stand on a black plinth I can photoshop the rest of Disneyland in later.

    The photograph was taken by Suzanne Plunkett, her who took (only one) iconic image in NYC on 11/9/2001…..

  180. Should I be pinching myself?

    G8 statement on Syria includes pledges to:

    ” Increase commitment to humanitarian aid.

    “Maximize the diplomatic pressure” to bring all sides to the table as soon as possible.

    Back a “transitional governing body” for Syria.

    “Learn the lessons of Iraq” and maintain Syria’s public institutions.

    Work together to “rid Syria of terrorists and extremists” — a new commitment by the G8, Cameron said.

    Condemn the use of chemical weapons “by anyone” in Syria, and allow for a UN probe, also new Cameron said.

    Support a new non-sectarian government in Syria. ”

    Source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/06/18/g8-harper-cameron-putin-obama.html

    Wouldn’t you just love to have been a fly on the wall?

    How do we hold the rogues to it?

    Goodnight All.

  181. Does seem like a remarkably reasonable and balanced outcome, if a bit vague. I suspect it’s because Putin has pretty much hinted at World War Three if NATO tries to do a Libya in Syria (not that Putin is any great humanitarian or within a million miles of being one)

  182. “There is no proof that the Syrian government used chemical weapons, Russian President Vladimir Putin said during the G8 summit. Some of the G8 countries share this view, he added.”

    (but he doesn’t name names)

    http://rt.com/news/g8-assad-chemical-putin-885/

  183. So the G8, including Putin, backs toppling the legitimate Syrian government?

    This is a dangerous precedent. If Assad can be so easily shoved aside then Betty Windsor better watch out. There’ll be dancing in the streets of Stolen-land tonight.

  184. “A situation which is now out of control”

    http://www.leap2020.eu/GEAB-N-76-is-available-Alert-for-the-second-half-of-2013-Global-systemic-crisis-II-second-devastating-explosion-social_a14266.html

    “Before you dismiss the possibility of a 90% drop in the stock market as unrealistic, consider Wiedemer’s credentials.”

    http://www.moneynews.com/MKTNews/billionaires-dump-economist-stock/2012/08/29/id/450265?PROMO_CODE=1393F-1

  185. Flaming June

    19 Jun, 2013 - 6:50 am

    Do read this interview with Assad by Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung. It is long but the clarity of his thinking and language illustrated within puts our lot in the shade. Compared to him, Hague is a like one of those concrete garden gnomes wearing a pointed red cap.

    “We Will Always Be Independent and Free” President al-Assad
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article35334.htm

    ~~

    I see the Obama clan has now descended on Germany.

    Obama may get different reception in Berlin than in ’08
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/06/18/obama-germany/2432583/

    Michelle will visit this panorama created inside a converted gasometer with Merkel’s husband, Prof Sauer.
    http://www.asisi.de/index.php?id=7&L=1#asisi_index_id_71

  186. Flaming June

    19 Jun, 2013 - 7:10 am

    Pepe Escobar -

    June 18 , 2013
    Obama’s weapons-for-peace program

    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MID-01-180613.html

  187. Listen up, Obama, Cameron and the French bloke:

    “Northern Ireland leaders to G8: Sending arms to Syria bad idea”

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/northern-ireland-leaders-to-g8-sending-arms-to-syria-bad-idea/article12630904/

  188. Assad link – thanks, June.

    An intelligent man who has thought through the issues in detail and doesn’t evade questions. What’s he doing in charge? I begin to see why the shambolic oafs pretending to run this country are so scared of him.

  189. So who is the Director of the Joint Terrorism Analysis Centre, which reports to the head of MI5?

    Respected posters, do any of you know? :-)

  190. Flaming June

    19 Jun, 2013 - 9:16 am

    Israel as ‘Insight Vacations’ see it. No mention of Occupied Palestine.

    http://www.insightvacations.com/uk/israel-discovery-2013

  191. Flaming June

    19 Jun, 2013 - 9:29 am

    Obama is a walking disaster. Another clanger has been dropped.

    19 June 2013 Last updated at 09:25

    Afghanistan suspends talks after US-Taliban move

    Afghanistan has suspended talks under way in Kabul on a bilateral security agreement with the US.

    A spokesman for President Hamid Karzai said the decision was taken in protest over inconsistencies in proposed US direct talks with the Taliban.

    The row centres on the name given to the Taliban office, which opened in Qatar on Tuesday, the spokesman said.

    US-Afghan talks are to determine the nature of US military presence after foreign troops withdraw in 2014.

    “There is a contradiction between what the US government says and what it does regarding Afghanistan peace talks,” President Karzai’s spokesman Aimal Faizi said.

    /..
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22965046

  192. Thanks for the revealing interview with Assad, June. The Golan is unprotected and Russia has volunteered to replace the previous UN contingent that has gone awol.

    The Golan is a potential flash point as much as South Lebanon, but Sidon and Tripoli are already flaring up with sectarian strife, so who needs false flag events, a small incident can set the whole lot off.

  193. From the horse’s mouth, so to speak.

    “One of these lessons is that ignorance is the worst enemy of societies and forms the basis for extremism.”

    Hats off to ARD for allowing us the chance to hear what “the enemy” thinks and make up our own minds.

    And thanks June for the link.

    (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article35334.htm)

    Can anyone point me to a similar quality in-depth interview with a rebel leader or gulf state sponsor?

  194. “There is a contradiction between what the US government says and what it does”

    WHAT?

  195. Good article on Syria, explaining what it’s all about, and why 100,000 have to die:

    Same old. Same old.

    “Qatar’s North Dome gas field, in the middle of the Persian Gulf, is one with Iran’s South Pars field, and together they constitute the largest gas field in the world. In 2011, Assad rejected an ultimatum from Qatar and instead agreed with Iran and Iraq to build a new Iran-Syria pipeline which would transfer natural gas to the Mediterranean from Iran’s South Pars natural gas field rather than Qatar’s North Dome.

    (We should recall that similar challenges to American petrodollar hegemony were made by Saddam Hussein and Muammar Gaddafi, with fatal consequences to them and their regimes.)”

    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MID-01-190613.html

  196. “The United States has deployed 1,500 Marines with advanced arms and military equipment to Yemen, says a Yemeni military official …

    The official also said that American forces usually enter the country in small groups, but the recent large deployment could be in preparation for a possible imminent incident in the region.

    According to the Washington-based think tank, the New America Foundation, the US drone attacks in Yemen almost tripled in 2012.”

    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/06/18/309593/us-deploys-1500-marines-to-yemen/

  197. Craig: May I suggest Susan Lindauers book, of her time working in the UN, spying for the CIA around the 9/11 time and the subsequent invasion of Iraq.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Lindauer

  198. HM Government e-petition
    Save UK Justice

    Responsible department: Ministry of Justice

    The MOJ should not proceed with their plans to reduce access to justice by depriving citizens of legal aid or the right to representation by the Solicitor of their choice.

    http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/48628

    Another seven thousand signatures will force a parliamentary debate.

  199. Middle East Reality Check

    MERC: Australia Post issues Israeli propaganda stamps
    June 19, 2013

    Editor’s note: Unbelievable is what comes to mind about this latest effort to conflate Australia’s Palestine Campaign with Israel. Not only is this a deliberate obfuscation of history – Israel didn’t even exist in 1917 – but it is insulting to the memory of Palestinians who were terrorised into leaving their city Beersheba when the newly-created Israel captured it in 1948 and who have never been allowed to return to their homes.

    The Palestine Campaign of 1917 saw the celebrated charge of the 4th Light Horse Brigade on the unsuspecting Turks. It was a battle that turned the tide of that campaign and led to the subsequent end of Ottoman rule in Palestine. Beersheba at the time had a population of some 4,000 Palestinians and was described by the New York Times of 1 November 1917 as an “ancient Palestine city, having much strategic value”. During the British Mandate, it remained an administrative centre providing work and services for the Palestinians living there. It was never intended to become part of Israel under the 1947 UN Partition Plan. Gaza is barely 50 kilometres away from Beersheba and endured some of the heaviest fighting when ANZACs and Palestinian soldiers fought the Turks. Now, the Palestinians are prisoners of Israel – not only in Gaza, but in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, while a theme park has been set up in memory of the Australian soldiers in what Israel now calls Be’er Sheva. The Pratt Foundation in Australia commissioned a statue to commemorate what many regard as the most significant victory of Australian military history and our Governor-General travelled to Israel for the unveiling ceremony. The irony of it all is that the Israelis living there had for decades been totally ignorant of the site’s significance and wilfully neglected its heritage, so much so, that in 2008, the Australian government was forced to order an investigation after the precious water wells, which the Australian soldiers had so bravely fought to secure, were found to be in a shocking state of disrepair and a virtual rubbish tip.

    War memorials everywhere show Palestine etched in stone. Graves in Gaza honour our soldiers. But even more telling, are the nearly six million Palestinians who live in that land under Israel’s brutal occupation and siege and some 5 million refugees who are waiting to return home. They will not forget. It will take more than Governor-Generals, statues and stamps to expunge the history and memories of the ANZAC-Palestine connection, try as Israel might.

    You can take a stand by refusing to purchase these particular stamps.

    (illustration of the stamps plus more editorial)

    /..
    http://www.australiansforpalestine.net/81892

  200. Thanks Clark. I agree and have signed the petition. Soon all our liberties and freedoms will have been removed.

    ~~~

    Legal aid cuts will drive out the best lawyers, supreme court president warns

    Reforms may not produce significant savings as it would result in more unrepresented litigants and longer hearings, says Lord Neuberger
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2013/jun/18/legal-aid-cuts-supreme-court-president

  201. I was no. 93,318 on that e-petition.

    100,000 are needed for the compulsory debate.

  202. HMG/MoD will not like this Supreme Court ruling. Large settlements will need to be paid. Get B. Liar to cough up.

    Iraq damages cases: Supreme Court rules families can sue
    Families of soldiers killed in Iraq can pursue damages against the government, the Supreme Court has ruled.
    Legal action was brought by the relatives of three men killed by roadside bombs while in Snatch Land Rovers and of another killed while in a Challenger tank.

    [..]

    The families’ claims will now be able to proceed to trial to determine if the MoD owes damages.

    BBC legal affairs correspondent Clive Coleman said the judgement could set out the framework of legal obligations owed by the MoD to its servicemen and women the world over.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22967853#

  203. Not at all O/T:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/02/22/israeli-american-company-to-drill-for-oil-in-occupied-golan-heights.html

    In which we learn a little more of the politico-commercial conspiracy which would like to reduce Syria to rubble. And possibly why the Russians would like to be there, too.

  204. I am just amazed at what Edward Snowden has claimed about who is, and what he has achieved by his actions, and what The Guardian, his mentor, is continuing to support.

    Snowden has not disclosed anything really new to those who have kept up on the subject, especially reading James Bamford’s books on the NSA; his claiming now that the government will kill him while ignoring all those who were actually killed – what he originally alluded to is – just self-serving hyperbole; Obama has been President for well over four years, so Snowden’s claim that the release of documents was dependent on what the White House did is just more self-serving hype; his assurance that he will always have the public on his side is undermined about what the media and politicians are saying about his behavior; there are many more officials and politicians, besides former Vice President Cheney, who say that he is a traitor and can do something serious about it;: and his claim that he is not a Chinese spy is not convincing as Beijing certainly has the last word on whether he could really go there, and be welcomed.

    The only thing that he said – what certainly should have been expanded by further questions but wasn’t – which was revealing were the data-mining difficulties that NSA had with private encryption systems – what Gareth Williams et al had such a problem with when hacking the lap tops of the Manhattan 11, but Snowden, of course, spared us of any role he may have had in the crucial process.

    Afraid that Snowden, like Ellsberg and Wilileaks’ Julian Assange, is just engaged in a most limited hang-out which will only help his employers in the end,

  205. Flaming June

    19 Jun, 2013 - 1:42 pm

    Kompodo I somehow knew before I opened your link that it was going to be Genie, again. Jerusalem and now Golan. The name came up on a previous thread ref shale oil outside Jerusalem. Jonas with Directors Murdoch, Cheney, J Rothschild etc.

    http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2010/1220/focus-howard-jonas-idt-rupert-murdoch-cheney-not-just-business.html

    http://www.jewishjournal.com/philanthropy/article/idts_ceo_jonas_not_a_typical_millionaire_20050128

  206. doug scorgie

    19 Jun, 2013 - 1:45 pm

    Kibo Noh

    19 Jun, 2013 – 12:36 am

    Should I be pinching myself?

    G8 statement on Syria includes pledges to:

    Increase commitment to humanitarian aid.

    [Aid for humanitarian disasters caused by western foreign policy]

    Maximize the diplomatic pressure to bring all sides to the table as soon as possible.

    BUT

    Back a “transitional governing body” for Syria

    [Which will exclude the Assad regime]

    Learn the lessons of Iraq

    [But not of Libya]

    Work together to rid Syria of terrorists and extremists

    [We have not been able to remove terrorists or extremists from Afghanistan, Iraq or Libya]

    Condemn the use of chemical weapons “by anyone” in Syria

    [Bravo! But the only side being accused by the west is Assad’s regime which, in my view, is not stupid enough to use chemical weapons]

    …and allow for a UN probe

    [The Assad government has asked for a UN probe]

    Support a new non-sectarian government in Syria

    [But not support for such a government in Saudi Arabia or even Israel (there has never been an Arab member of any Israeli government since its creation in 1948)]

    Hypocrisy can afford to be magnificent in its promises, for never intending to go beyond promise, it costs nothing.

    Edmund Burke

  207. doug scorgie

    19 Jun, 2013 - 1:53 pm

    MPs will vote before UK arms Syrian rebels

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22965829

    Syria: Arming the rebels

    The labour leadership is against this action and although it will be a whipped vote there are detractors in the Labour party.

    “Labour leader Ed Miliband last week asked Prime Minister David Cameron to confirm that “there will be a vote in this House on a substantive motion, in government time, with the recall of Parliament from recess if necessary”.

    Cameron replied:

    “I have always believed in allowing the House of Commons a say on all of these issues.”

    “It was right when it came to Iraq. It was right when we made the decision to help the opposition in Libya, and it would be right in the future as well for that to happen.”

    “Let me stress once again that we have made no decision to arm the rebels in Syria.”

    A bit of history:

    Afghan war

    There was no vote in the commons

    Iraq war

    In 2003 Blair “won” backing for the Iraq war.

    Two things wrong (a) the war had already started.

    (b) the vote was whipped with both the Tory leadership and the Labour government pushing their MPs for the war.

    Libya

    Another whipped vote with both the Labour leadership and the Tory government in favour of intervention.

    And back to Syria:

    “Foreign Secretary William Hague has said the government would not take such action “against the will” of MPs.”

    BUT he has stopped short of promising a vote on a substantive motion.”

    In other words the vote will be NON-BINDING on the government.

    Democracy in action!

  208. Re the legal representation petition. Isn’t this just a bit of tidying up by our Lords and masters?

    Seven hundred and ninety eight years ago Article 29 of the Magna Carter was written into English law.

    “No Freeman shall be taken or imprisoned, or be disseised of his Freehold, or Liberties, or free Customs, or be outlawed, or exiled, or any other wise destroyed; nor will We not pass upon him, nor condemn him, but by lawful judgment of his Peers, or by the Law of the land. We will sell to no man, we will not deny or defer to any man either Justice or Right.”

    In reality this comes from another time and another country. The early 21st century has seen a retrenchment to a pre Magna Carter state. Part of the debt we owe to “modernisers” like Bliar and his crew. I hope I live to see these true criminals answer for their deeds.

    I’d like them to have legal representation. As for an appropriate sentence, I hope they not imprisoned at our expense. Rather I would like to see them serve a long stints of community service in, say, Fallujah.

    The e petition currently has 93,455 signatures. Pretty close to the magic 100,000.

    Please sign if you haven’t already.

  209. In case you missed it here’s the petition link.

    http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/48628

    Thanks Clark. (11 31am)

  210. No mention of any of this on the BBC, of course.

    I often wonder are their vastly inflated salaries adequate compensation for the crimes against humanity in which they must collude, or does psychometric testing select only for those of a suitably psychopathic tendency.

    “Previously, when looking at the real underlying national interests responsible for the deteriorating situation in Syria, which eventually may and/or will devolve into all out war with hundreds of thousands killed, we made it very clear that it was always and only about the gas, or gas pipelines to be exact, and specifically those involving the tiny but uber-wealthy state of Qatar.

    Needless to say, the official spin on events has no mention of this ulterior motive, and the popular, propaganda machine, especially from those powers supporting the Syrian “rebels” which include Israel, the US and the Arabian states tries to generate public and democratic support by portraying Assad as a brutal, chemical weapons-using dictator, in line with the tried and true script used once already in Iraq.”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-16/mystery-sponsor-weapons-and-money-syrian-rebels-revealed

  211. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    19 Jun, 2013 - 3:22 pm

    A McChrystal buster dies in a fiery crash….his last article. RIP

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/mhastings/why-democrats-love-to-spy-on-americans

  212. Talking about Law,war,Israel and the BBC.I assume we all saw Storyville on BBC4 on Monday night “The law in these parts”?

  213. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    19 Jun, 2013 - 4:08 pm

  214. Geoffrey 19 Jun, 2013 – 3:49 pm
    “I assume we all saw Storyville on BBC4 on Monday night “The law in these parts”?”

    No. Was it any good?

    It’s available on iplayer. The storyville site is currently advertising next week’s show which may be of particular interest to Craig – “Power, Money, Greed & Oil. How a US energy company developed the first commercial oil field in Ghana’s history.”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mfx6

  215. Christ, Ben. Is that for real? Still, it’s heartening to know that he’s a lousy team player, when you look at the rest of the team…

  216. @Ben
    I recall the ‘orrible Andrew Neil sniffingly mocking Rolling Stone, on his daily politics love in, when the Mccrystal article came out. The article was a rare piece of journalism that broke all the club rules.

  217. Here’s a breakdown of propaganda from Brazil. A live tv poll asking “Do you support the rioters” gets rerun because the wrong answer was returned. The presenter says the people must have misunderstood the question. But the vote goes against him again. Hilarious. It’ll surely be rigged next time.

    ww.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IuL890rwNvo#!

  218. “A McChrystal buster dies in a fiery crash….his last article. RIP”

    After reading that, I guess a few people will not be too sad to learn of his death, if not actually relieved.

  219. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    19 Jun, 2013 - 4:28 pm

    Komo/Phil;

    Great reticence to whisper about the strange ‘accident’. The impact was so great the benz engine and tranny found 100 ft from wreckage.

    Again, I ask Obama; “How many Craft employees are on the public payroll in the 50 states?”

  220. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    19 Jun, 2013 - 4:35 pm

    Guardian; See how many comments don’t meet community standards.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/19/michael-hastings-runaway-general-dies

  221. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    19 Jun, 2013 - 4:36 pm

    @ Herbie (08h02) :

    “Listen up, Obama, Cameron and the French bloke:..”

    _________

    The “French bloke”‘s name, Herbie, is Mr Hollande. François to his friends and, more formally, Monsieur le Président.

    Don’t forget!

  222. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!) 19 Jun, 2013 – 4:36 pm
    “@ Herbie (08h02) : “Listen up, Obama, Cameron and the French bloke:..””. The “French bloke”‘s name, Herbie, is Mr Hollande.

    And another colloquilism passes daft Hab by. Personally I laughed me socks off at Herbie’s comment…and some of my best friends are french.

  223. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    19 Jun, 2013 - 4:50 pm

    I wonder why the riots in Brazil – unlike the riots on Turkey, for example – have attracted next to no comment from the Excellences of this blog?

    It is true, of course, that Brazil is one of the BRICs and, therefore, a beacon of hope for a juster society and not part of the evil West/USA axis.

    Whereas Turkey is just a filthy Western stooge – part of NATO as well.

    Could that be the reason, perhaps?

  224. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    19 Jun, 2013 - 4:53 pm

    I think Greenwald and Scahill should grow eyes in the back of their heads.

    http://www.thenation.com/article/171247/petraeus-legacy-paramilitary-cia#axzz2Wg5Q1QIY

  225. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    19 Jun, 2013 - 4:54 pm

    Ah, now I get it! Thanks, that Phil-bloke.

    Herbie was being…funny!

  226. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    19 Jun, 2013 - 5:00 pm

    “At a Pentagon ceremony for his subsequent retirement in 2010, McChrystal made light of the episode in his farewell address. The four-star general warned his comrades in arms, “I have stories on all of you, photos of many, and I know a Rolling Stone reporter.”"

    http://news.yahoo.com/award-winning-journalist-michael-hastings-dies-011045748.html

    He was being gracious and philosophical, like any fired General would be.

  227. @Ben
    Blimey, the guardian mods are cleaning up like there’s no tomorrow.

  228. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    19 Jun, 2013 - 5:08 pm

  229. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    19 Jun, 2013 - 5:14 pm

    With all the hdwe and software in today’s cars, I have a question for the techies….

    Is it possible the Benz was tooled?

  230. Flaming June

    19 Jun, 2013 - 5:16 pm

    Why is the BBC correspondent, Kevin Connolly, based in Jerusalem writing this very long piece about the holocaust which is neither topical or relevant to the news? The yellow star is given prominence to reinforce the message. Is this Purnell’s doing?

    Return to Auschwitz:How Israel keeps holocaust memories alive
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22892783

    It has been given prominence on the main page and although new today is top of the features list and on the most read.

    By now, we all know about the holocaust.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/#

  231. poisoned keg

    19 Jun, 2013 - 5:19 pm

    Broken? More like sabotaged.

    Crucial NATO ally Germany is now on board with the world’s definition of the crime of aggression. Sort of complicates US government aggression in Syria and Pakistan and Somalia and so forth. So what does the government do? They infiltrate an Israeli/American agent of influence into the Former Yugoslavia tribunal to rig precedents in an attempt to get command structures off the hook for war crimes. The brass and the Clandestine Service desk jockeys want to make sure that when they commit crimes against humanity, they can hang a couple hillbillies and live to fight another day. Or at worst, they could string up their puppet Obama and promise to mend their ways.

  232. Flaming June

    19 Jun, 2013 - 5:19 pm

    Letter of complaint to Amnesty NI on the absence of Bradley Manning’s name on their placards at the anti G8 rally.

    http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/thread/1371652274.html

  233. Flaming June

    19 Jun, 2013 - 6:23 pm

    Komodo. Sorry for the typo earlier. Kompodo. It sounds like something to get a compost heap working.

    Poisoned Keg. Thanks for that link. I was looking at another version of that story on ICH earlier which linked to the NYT.

    President of International War Crimes Tribunal May Have Worked to Shield Israelis From Prosecution
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article35307.htm

    Q Who appointed Meron to the court or is that another silly question.

    http://www.icty.org/

  234. @June. 5 19pm. 6 23pm.

    Re Amnesty International and International War Crimes Tribunal.

    Plus ça change……

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

  235. “Is it possible the Benz was tooled?”

    Jeezus, Ben, you think he was killed?
    As you say, Jeremy Scahill and Glenn Greenwald better watch their backs.

    “Blimey, the guardian mods are cleaning up like there’s no tomorrow.”

    They shouldn’t have opened comments if that’s what they were going to do. It’s crazy. Must keep an eye on Twitter and see what’s being said there …

    “Michael Hastings: my friend and his enemies” Spencer Ackerman

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/19/michael-hastings-friend-enemies

  236. Clark, done.

    Did you notice they were trying to justify it by pretending that they were targeting the rich who could afford to pay their own legal fees. Believe me the whole purpose of this is to prevent poor people from getting proper legal representation. There are already too many people imprisoned, not just without having committed a crime, but without even having been charged with one. The terrorism acts need to go. Habeas corpus needs to be brought back. I am sick of the way my country operates a two tier system.

  237. There is no bigger liar on the planet right now than google’s chief legal officer who, surprise, surprise, The Guardian is giving pride of place to spread the disinformation.

    Since I have really been going after our police states, google has steadily diminished what is available on its web site by me, most falsely claims that the little it cites is no different from what it suppresses (some 20 pages of possible reference to some 90 pages overall), and adds how many times I have gone to various ones which interest me, especially most negative ones, in case the spooks have forgotten to keep track.

    Just check for yourself what I have posted with what google says is available.

    The internet linkers are partners in crime with our police state minders.

  238. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    19 Jun, 2013 - 7:51 pm

    ““The probability of a certain set of circumstances coming together in a meaningful (or tragic) way is so low that it simply cannot be considered mere coincidence. ”

    ― V.C. King

    I’m not a big believer in coincidences, Dreoilin. I’m not going to categorically state that he was murdered. I’m going to be interested in his spouse’s comments about his doings and whereabouts on that morning. I’m keeping an open mind, that is, for a cynic.

  239. Dreoilin

    19 Jun, 2013 – 6:57 pm

    “Jeezus, Ben, you think he was killed?”

    Many years ago I was doing some work at the home of a top-notch and, I believe, compassionate and committed journalist. Lunch times became an inclusive affair during which were mulled over the world and how power works.

    I clearly remember asking him what he thought about a journalist who had committed suicide in Brazil while researching a story regarding a well known british arms manufacturer.

    The gist of his contribution to that conversation was that he wouldn’t touch such a story for fear of “suicide.”

    I’ve noticed over the subsequent years that this method of departure seems to be popular with a good many in that profession.

    Some are so thorough that, like Gary Webb, they shoot themselves in the head, twice!

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=314_1324653205

    Rather a long list here. Clearly many, if not most, will be the real thing. Interesting though just how many seemed to be at the
    top of their game.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Journalists_who_committed_suicide

    Regarding Michael Hastings dying in a single car crash, I think all we can do is look at the story and guess the odds.

    Sorry, rather grim.

  240. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    19 Jun, 2013 - 8:03 pm

    The cracks keep opening up. “limited’ use of drones in domestic application. Mueller must sense the hounds will sniff it out anyway.

    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/306503-mueller-fbi-uses-drones-in-us-for-limited-surveillance

  241. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    19 Jun, 2013 - 8:05 pm

    Can an automobile be remotely controlled, like say, a drone?

  242. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    19 Jun, 2013 - 8:09 pm

    If it were an op, and i was a principal, I would certainly be paranoid about my survival.

    I remember the two FBI triggermen in Boston, who died while rappelling off a chopper, falling 70 feet into the ocean.

    Triggermen are the first to follow the target into the next life.

  243. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    19 Jun, 2013 - 8:10 pm

    I’ve said enough about this for now.

  244. Had a dream last night, and Jorg Haider said it could happen to a souped up, armored Volksvagen coupe, so I guess Benz mechanics could do it too.

    Liked the photo of my SS pin-up boy too. Would suggest, though, that the tailors take it in a bit – makes him look too insignificant.

  245. Kibo Noh,

    I take your points. Indeed. And Ben.

    The people who might want to see Michael Hastings dead would most likely be gung-ho military types who remained loyal to McChrystal, no? I haven’t read everything that Hastings wrote (which includes at least two books), but I don’t know (for now) any reason that the Obama admin might be after him.

    I know nothing about remotely controlled anything, but I assume that if they can do it with planes, they can do it with cars …

    God love him. Only 33. And so badly burned that I don’t think he’s been officially identified yet. RIP.

  246. Michael Hastings RIP.

    Acording to eyewitnesses the car jacknifed,exploded and hit a tree.

    Which is pretty rare in a car..about as rare as outing a 4 Star General who gets sacked due to the article…

    Remote controlled cars Ben?

    Anything mechanical can be remote controlled.Been this way for decades.

    Cars,planes,drones…people too (MK-Ultra).

  247. Dreoilin,

    I think it far more likely a vengeful McChrystal and some of his invisible black op private army goons might be likelier candidates than Obama’s crew for such a job.

    Just sayin’…

  248. Did you notice they were trying to justify it by pretending that they were targeting the rich who could afford to pay their own legal fees. Believe me the whole purpose of this is to prevent poor people from getting proper legal representation.

    Most of the criminal bastards are getting sprung with the help of legal aid. These rascals get free smart arse solicitors who can turn the juries against the prosecution and spring their criminal clients. No legal aid, no solicitors and no solicitors more convictions, that is if the said criminal is not a bankster, because as we all know banksters are “honourable chaps” and a quiet word in their ears over an expensive dinner in a posh restaurant would suffice .

    What is wrong with convicting the bastards and putting them into prison?

    BTW has anyone noticed how difficult it is to find a solicitor who will pick a civil case these days?

  249. Hit a tree THEN exploded and it’s not that rare. One third of all fatal car crashes in the US, that’s about 12,000 a year, involve just one vehicle.

    Never let facts stand in the way of a conspiracy theory eh?

  250. If you are serious about an assassination, I would start with another general, General David Petraeus, who Hastings tore apart on CNN.

    And remember that Petraeus had been totally compromised by that Mossad woman, Paula what’s-her-name.

    Has Pardo just shown that he is a worthy successor to Meir Degan, and if one assassination proves most successful, don’t forget to try it again.

    Certainly Israel had no use for Hastings.

  251. “Hit a tree THEN exploded”

    No. Exploded then hit a tree. Please pay attention.

  252. And remember, Kempe, that every car is not a Ford Pinto, and even some of them would only explode if they were hit from the back.

    Conspiracies happen all the time, and one should not allow their political preferences or religious predilections get in the way of any facts.

  253. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    19 Jun, 2013 - 10:20 pm

    I happen to have the benefit of local news and a they showed video of the tree (palm) which as still standing and had but a few scorings (minor) on the low trunk.

    Secondary collision?

  254. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    19 Jun, 2013 - 10:22 pm

    “I think it far more likely a vengeful McChrystal and some of his invisible black op private army goons might be likelier candidates than Obama’s crew for such a job”

    If it is a job, that would be my guess, Jives. That’s why I’m asking about how many Craft employees (former mils) are on the public payroll in the US.

  255. Michael Hastings certainly did not hold back.

    His output on BuzzFeed
    http://www.buzzfeed.com/mhastings

    and a tribute.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/missing-michael-hastings

    RIP.

  256. @ Habbabkuk

    ‘I wonder why the riots in Brazil – unlike the riots on Turkey, for example – have attracted next to no comment from the Excellences of this blog?’

    Maybe they see no point in posting that the sky is blue.

  257. Ben,

    Craft..yes….nice Freemasonic name.

    Interestingly,although they were all over the Boston bombings not one mention of them in the MSM.

    They have a nice line in fashion too…lotsa patches and logos of bleeding skulls etc…very junior high school imagery really but gung ho boyzzz like their adolescent iconography i guess…

    So who are Craft one must wonder…a private army?mercenaries? extra-judicail police force?..or just a psy-op gig to spook the public?

    Are they legal? Do they exist? Do they pay tax? Is there an audit trail?

    All very shadowy…but it’s a growth indu$try no doubt.

  258. I must correct my earlier post about an eyewitness account.

    Accordingly the car jacknifed,hit a tree THEN exploded.

    Apologies,mea culpa.

    It doesnt change my suspicions though.

    I’d imagine hell hath no fury like 4 Star Generals outed,sacked and denied at place at the top table.

    Im sure Hastings made some serious enemies with precisely the means and motivation for such a hit.

    It also serves to send a most timely reminder to whistleblowers and investigative journalists.

    Kempe,never miss a chance to follow the Govt/Official narrative though.

    It’s not like these things ever happen is it?

  259. http://www.thecraft.com/AboutUs.html

    The Craft website…all looks very gung-ho and spunky,manly.

    Chris Kyle,he of American Sniper fame,was President of the company.

    You may recall earlier this year he and a friend were killed by a marine on a shooting range in Texas.

    Motive “unclear”.

    These types terrify me.

    Boyzzzz and their toyzzzz.

  260. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    19 Jun, 2013 - 10:46 pm

    The eyewitness has been unclear. He said it was out of control and may have exploded before it hit the tree.

    And to your point, Craft/Academi is a more politically palatable name than Blackwater. The baggage required a name-change.

  261. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    19 Jun, 2013 - 10:55 pm

    “The solo-vehicle crash happened near the intersection of Highland and Melrose avenues around 4:15 a.m., according to the LAPD.

    Hastings’ Mercedes-Benz slammed into a tree and caught fire.

    “I was just coming northbound on Highland and I seen a car going really fast, and all of a sudden I seen it jackknife,” said Luis Cortez, who witnessed the wreck.

    “I just seen parts fly everywhere and I slammed on my brakes and stopped and tried to call 911,” Cortez added.

    The engine of the vehicle was found in a yard about 100 feet away.

    Read more: http://ktla.com/2013/06/19/driver-killed-in-fiery-car-crash-in-hollywood/#ixzz2WhYn2Qgc

    I could swear there was more to this witness account earlier. How does a car ‘jackknife” I thought that happened when you were towing a trailer. The video (car burning) showed the front-end of car facing the tree.

  262. Ben,

    They couldn’t have come up with a more “conspiratorial” name to wind up the anti-NWO/Illuminati crew.

    Seems a deliberately confrontational name…

  263. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    19 Jun, 2013 - 10:57 pm

    The guy spoke in broken English and may have been at a loss of words to describe what he saw. I’m sure we can rely on the media to get these details.

  264. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    19 Jun, 2013 - 11:06 pm

    OK. Here’s the video. Interview at about 3:03 What do you hear. He’s almost incomprehensible.

    Note the beer bottle (nice) on the ground at about 4:20.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LSY3wVuASg

  265. http://act.rootsaction.org/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=7309

    Feinstein seems to know exactly who pass all the tapped info to..

  266. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    19 Jun, 2013 - 11:13 pm

    Dual citizenship expats and US citizens please sign petition on Jives post on Feinstein

  267. Off topic, but just saw a tweet from Oliver Kamm:

    “BBC ruthlessly suppresses voice of the very important Craig Murray by inviting him for live interview on national TV.”

    His other tweets include inviting John Rentoul to discuss ‘whether Blair’s tenure was a success’, and mocking conspiracy ‘cranks’ whose comments regarding Mr Hastings were deleted on CiF. Olive Kamm: the voice of Radio Free Complacency. Craig should debate him.

  268. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    19 Jun, 2013 - 11:38 pm

    Get a load of this….DARPA…..hmmmm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D6jxBDy8k8&feature=youtu.be

  269. Ben,

    Re: remote controlled cars…and this is a few years old now-and only consumer level tech…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSW49Y9P6SM

  270. “Can an automobile be remotely controlled, like say, a drone?”

    Not easily and the driver would undoubtedly notice all the hardware.

    However a small radio receiver hooked into the obd can bus could probably crash a car. Lock the doors, drop down a gear, jam the throttle on full then lock up one wheel, something like that. A car like that has many computers in it, everything even the radio is controlled by one and they are all connected on the can bus.

  271. Scary stuff.

    From what I can see on Ben’s video, and a few still photos I’ve seen, the road/street is very straight there. He’d have had to swing the wheel, to mount the kerb and smash into the tree. And there’s nothing at all to suggest why he would do that.

  272. Malcolm King,suspicious recent car accident..

    http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=60339

  273. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    20 Jun, 2013 - 1:11 am

    This tells you something about me. I shoot from the hip, and am often reckless in my behavior. I actually called a few OPG’s (official police garage) and inquired about the vehicle. They would not provide any info. “Even if the FBI inquired” Then he said,
    “Why aren’t you here with them?”

    I literally shat myself.

  274. Major Michael Marman’s death..from a book by Sir Ranulph Fiennes (ex-SAS) The Feather Men…

    http://www.whale.to/a/horsley.html

  275. We know why ‘Flaming June’ – A duplicitous BBC plucks the heart-strings of deception for a show that has lost purpose, relevance and meaning. I see only chaos.

    Only we, the people can bring to life harmony, order and symmetry, our time is right now.

    To the mother of humanity – sadly missed.

  276. Brake pedal failing in motor accident? Hah! I suppose the hand brake, transmission and ignition failed too. Whatever happened to good old fashioned, murderous muggings as a method of getting rid of people?

  277. Flaming June

    20 Jun, 2013 - 7:04 am

    Gideon’s SOH was seriously challenged at Lough Erne.

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4976618/Barack-Obama-keeps-calling-Chancellor-George-Osborne-Jeffrey-at-G8-summit-after-confusing-him-with-favourite-soul-star.html

    LOL

    PS Sorry about the source of the link. It seems to be a Soaraway Sun Exclusive.

  278. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    20 Jun, 2013 - 7:05 am

    @ KingofWelshNoir

    Oh, come on. Every thread is full of the obvious (and O/T) comments of which you seem to disapprove.

    My point was that if those riots/demonstrations had taken place in a country of which the Emincences disapprove (the US, the UK,Israel,….) the threads would be full of comments. But because they occurred in one of the BRIC countries – countries seen as a worthy counterpoise to the West – not a squeak. Idem, by the way, when it comes to local protests about the way women are treated in India, the murders of journalists in Russia or labour relations in South Africa – unless, of course, they can somehow be tied into your anti-West narrative.
    _______

    So don’t be so faux-naif.

  279. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    20 Jun, 2013 - 7:10 am

    BTW, I’m waiting with bated breath for the first mocking comments about President Obama having apparently addressed Gideon George Osborne as “Geoffrey” and for the cosmic inferences which will be drawn from that lapse.

    Who will be the firsst commenter to addresss that important issue, I wonder?

  280. Flaming June

    20 Jun, 2013 - 7:10 am

    Pilger is spot on.

    Understanding The Latest Leaks Is Understanding The Rise Of A New Fascism
    June 20, 2013 By John Pilger

    [..]

    ‘In the new American cyber-power, only the revolving doors have changed. The director of Google Ideas, Jared Cohen, was adviser to Condaleeza Rice, the former secretary of state in the Bush administration who lied that Saddam Hussein could attack the US with nuclear weapons. Cohen and Google’s executive chairman, Eric Schmidt – they met in the ruins of Iraq — have co-authored a book, The New Digital Age, endorsed as visionary by the former CIA director Michael Hayden and the war criminals Henry Kissinger and Tony Blair. The authors make no mention of the Prism spying programme, revealed by Edward Snowden, that provides the NSA access to all of us who use Google.’

    [..]

    The power of truth-tellers like Bradley Manning, Julian Assange, and Edward Snowden is that they dispel a whole mythology carefully constructed by the corporate cinema, the corporate academy and the corporate media. WikiLeaks is especially dangerous because it provides truth-tellers with a means to get the truth out. This was achieved by Collateral Damage, the cockpit video of an US Apache helicopter allegedly leaked by Bradley Manning. The impact of this one video marked Manning and Assange for state vengeance. Here were US airmen murdering journalists and maiming children in a Baghdad street, clearly enjoying it, and describing their atrocity as “nice”. Yet, in one vital sense, they did not get away with it; we are witnesses now, and the rest is up to us.

    http://www.zcommunications.org/understanding-the-latest-leaks-is-understanding-the-rise-of-a-new-fascism-by-john-pilger

  281. @ Habbabkuk

    ‘Idem, by the way, when it comes to local protests about the way women are treated in India, the murders of journalists in Russia or labour relations in South Africa – unless, of course, they can somehow be tied into your anti-West narrative.’

    No, I genuinely don’t believe in the existence of the ‘anti-West narrative’ that you frequently inveigh against. I do think most posters on this thread are united by disgust and anger for much of what the West does, but that is not the same thing. As for the examples you cite – mistreatment of women in India, for example – I think the reason people don’t post on such issues is simply that these things are universally condemned and hardly worth the effort of pointing out on a forum where it can be tacitly assumed most people are on the same page. What gets people’s goat here, I submit without a trace of faux-naivety, is those instances where there is a chasm between the cruel things the west does and the way they are laundered and perfumed by such organs as the BBC.

  282. So what really did happen to TWA Flight 800?

    New revelations from gagged NTSB investigators apparently coming to light…

    Did the US shoot it down during military manouevres that went wrong?

    Seems whistleblowing is all the rage…

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2344246/Are-conspiracy-theorists-say-TWA-flight-800-shot-right-Flimmakers-claim-jet-crashed-Long-Island-killing-230-hit-explosions-OUTSIDE-aircraft.html

  283. @ Habbabkuk

    BTW, I’m waiting with bated breath for the first mocking comments about President Obama having apparently addressed Gideon George Osborne as “Geoffrey” and for the cosmic inferences which will be drawn from that lapse.

    Who will be the firsst commenter to addresss that important issue, I wonder?

    It’s coming to something when a man can’t even remember the name of his own poodle.

  284. KOWN,

    ” I do think most posters on this thread are united by disgust and anger for much of what the West does, but that is not the same thing.” (as anti-West narrative).

    Spot on.

  285. Flaming June

    20 Jun, 2013 - 8:04 am

    All change!

    Ex HSBC money laundering boss Stephen Green is leaving the government. Agent Cameron is promoting Livingstone of BT to replace him.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/jun/19/bt-chief-executive-ian-livingston-leaves

  286. http://henrymakow.com/2013/06/sao-paulo-riots.html

    Create a mess then tidy up. The joy if working?

  287. Flaming June

    20 Jun, 2013 - 8:13 am

    Organ Trafficking AGAIN!!!

    Posted: 19 Jun 2013 01:01 AM PDT

    http://insidecostarica.com/2013/06/18/medical-chief-at-costa-rica-state-hospital-arrested-as-part-of-organ-trafficking-investigation/

    Medical chief at Costa Rica state hospital arrested as part of organ trafficking investigation

    A chief doctor at a Costa Rican government-ran hospital was arrested today on suspicion of being part of an international organ trafficking network which specializes in selling kidneys to patients in Israel, according to the Attorney General’s Office.

    Attorney General Jorge Chavarria told the press that the arrested is Francisco Mora Palma, head of Nephrology at Calderon Guardia Hospital, one of the largest state medical centers in the country.

    “The patients who required the transplants were in Israeli territory, and some of the (trafficking) victims [had their kidney removed] here and others were transported to Israel. We have information that at least one person died after being operated on in Israel,” Chavarria said.

    The prosecutor explained that the organization has branches in Israel and Eastern Europe, though did not elaborate, citing the ongoing investigation.

    ~~

    And some boasting from the Jerusalem Post.

    Brazil’s president Dilma Rousseff features here along with Merkel, Clinton and Melinda Gates.

    http://www.jpost.com/International/Jewish-women-who-rule-according-to-Forbes

  288. BTW, I’m waiting with bated breath for the first mocking comments about President Obama having apparently addressed Gideon George Osborne as “Geoffrey” and for the cosmic inferences which will be drawn from that lapse.

    Who will be the firsst commenter to addresss that important issue, I wonder?

    You, as far as I can see….

    Anyway, another POV on the main story might be in order -

    It is not, in short, a conspiracy of the powerful that is driving the expansion of the state today; it is a vacuum in society, created by the collapse of all sorts of informal, non-state institutions, which is almost inviting the state to expand. Hence state agents really do believe that they are helping us, in the case of the NSA, by keeping us safe from an apparently unprecedented threat. So, as incompetent, lumbering and liberty-squashing as the state is, as the real story of Prism shows, the state, pace Google, is not being evil.

    http://www.spiked-online.com/site/article/13717/

    Debate invited.

  289. Sofia Zabalotna-Habbrcake

    20 Jun, 2013 - 9:13 am

    O/T
    @Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!) 7:05 am

    Dad!

    You can be such a plonker sometimes.

    You complain that issues are ignored here unless “they can somehow be tied into your anti-West narrative.”

    You never give and reasons from the real world to show us why. Just carping, moaning, insults and running to Jon telling him to deal with our unruly behaviour.

    If the West gets a rough ride here then maybe it’s because, on a vast scale it makes la vita so bloody horrific, or takes it away altogether.

    The gulf between the reality people see when they look at the evidence, and the fairy-tales promoted by the corporate media has become too great to ignore.

    KOWN hit’s the nail on the head when he writes “ there is a chasm between the cruel things the west does and the way they are laundered and perfumed by such organs as the BBC.”

    There are thousands of other issues going on in the world that any single thread “ignores”.

    Your posts often seem to act as an indicator that light is being shone in places where the powers who run the show (often western) don’t like it shone. Maybe that’s your value.

    As for the west getting a hard time here. If you want it to get left alone how about addressing it’s centurys-old policy of theft and control? How about using some of the wealth an ingenuity to bring about peace and plenty rather than war and plunder?

  290. O (ho ho) /T

    The fragrant Gulnara seems to be in a spot of bother with….the Swedes:

    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/CEN-01-170613.html

  291. “No, I genuinely don’t believe in the existence of the ‘anti-West narrative’ that you frequently inveigh against. I do think most posters on this thread are united by disgust and anger for much of what the West does, but that is not the same thing. As for the examples you cite – mistreatment of women in India, for example – I think the reason people don’t post on such issues is simply that these things are universally condemned and hardly worth the effort of pointing out on a forum where it can be tacitly assumed most people are on the same page. What gets people’s goat here, I submit without a trace of faux-naivety, is those instances where there is a chasm between the cruel things the west does and the way they are laundered and perfumed by such organs as the BBC.”

    Well said; that people can’t see the difference, it could because of experiencing a mirror projection of their own reflected prejudices, or perhaps even be indicative of some sort of brain damage, which would also account for why these same people repeatedly insist that others must publically condemn that which only the most unprincipled would ever consider condoning.

  292. Excellent stuff on her there by Alexander Kim, Komodo. It’s not just a few squid she goes off with each time, it’s millions. She is becoming universally despised these days, rather like B.Liar. Is she known to the latter? He has been shooting his mouth again in IsraHell.

    Saw this earlier. The three stooges. http://australiansforpalestine.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/mid.east_.kerry_.jpg

    What a revolting trio. Three horrible old men who are stitching up the Palestinians. http://www.australiansforpalestine.net/81907

  293. ‘Tis true what David Edwards, co-editor, says on Medialens – The British changed the pronunciation of ‘patriot’ following an American film with that name. The media use the American pronunciation.

    pa·tri·ot
    /ˈpeɪtriət, -ˌɒt or, esp. British, ˈpætriət/ Show Spelled [pey-tree-uht, -ot or, esp. British, pa-tree-uht] Show IPA

    noun
    1. a person who loves, supports, and defends his or her country and its interests with devotion.
    2. a person who regards himself or herself as a defender, especially of individual rights, against presumed interference by the federal government.
    3. ( initial capital letter ) Military. a U.S. Army anti aircraft missile with a range of 37 miles (60 km) and a 200-pound (90 kg) warhead, launched from a tracked vehicle with radar and computer guidance and fire control.

    There is a thread on Medialens about John Pilger’s latest piece on propaganda.

    http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/thread/1371704567.html

    The second comment there is a dig at the BBC holocaust prop. which I posted earlier here.

  294. Brendan Yesterday at 11.37pm Ref your link to the nasty Kamm tweet about Craig.

    I have been scrolling through his execrable stuff. https://twitter.com/OliverKamm

    One of his latest is:
    Oliver Kamm ‏@OliverKamm 20h
    Guardian has deleted most comments under report of Michael Hasting’s death. Evidently attracted conspiracy cranks: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/19/michael-hastings-runaway-general-dies

    !!

    He even retweets McCain and as you say has multiple exchanges with the B.Liar hagiographer Rentoul who has reissued his biography of St Anthony* and who was plugging it on Kamm’s twitter. Is Rentoul on B.Liar’s payroll one asks?

    They are all nobodies.

    *
    Tony Blair: Poster boy or cartoon villain?
    John Rentoul’s biography of Tony Blair, published in 2001, is reissued this week with a 20,000-word Afterword covering the last six years of his premiership, starting with the shock of 9/11. In this exclusive extract, Rentoul assesses whether Blair’s solidarity with President George W Bush, which led to Britain’s role in the Iraq war, was a mistake.

    Sunday 16 June 2013
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tony-blair-poster-boy-or-cartoon-villain-8660465.html

    No, not a mistake Rentoul. A very bloody war crime as was Afghanistan.

  295. “Who will be the firsst commenter to addresss that important issue, I wonder?”

    “You, as far as I can see…”

    I don’t think so. I believe it was “Flaming June” at 7.04am.

    My head is still with Michael Hastings. I’ve just read this:

    “Michael Hastings contacted WikiLeaks lawyer Jennifer Robinson just a few hours before he died, saying that the FBI was investigating him.”

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100222652/wikileaks-says-michael-hastings-contacted-it-just-before-his-death-are-they-implying-he-was-murdered/

  296. In light of the recent NSA leaks by Snowden it could well be argued that everybody is under “potential” investigation now.

    Certainly storing everyone’s data ad infinitum is a form of investigation.

    Just a thought…

  297. “Even if the FBI inquired” Then he said,
    “Why aren’t you here with them?”

    I literally shat myself.

    That is precisely the reason the question was put to you.

  298. “If you are serious about an assassination, I would start with another general, General David Petraeus, who Hastings tore apart on CNN.”

    I didn’t know that. I wonder is it worth chasing up on YouTube.

    And Ben said,
    “And to your point, Craft/Academi is a more politically palatable name than Blackwater. The baggage required a name-change.”

    I knew Blackwater became Xe and then Academi, but are you saying they are now Craft? I thought Craft were a separate outfit.

  299. “Certainly storing everyone’s data ad infinitum is a form of investigation.”

    Yes Jives. We are all potential suspects. And you don’t have to break any law to become a full-blown suspect. If they can demonstrate (to their own satisfaction) that you were even thinking about it … subscribed to the wrong magazine or website …

  300. “Who will be the firsst commenter to addresss that important issue, I wonder?”

    “You, as far as I can see…”

    I don’t think so. I believe it was “Flaming June” at 7.04am.

    No, she raised the issue. And Hubba’s getting sssibilant, too.
    My preciousssss…

  301. You guys can stew around about the Hastngs assassination till the cows come home, but the most likely suspects are the Mossad, General David Petraeus, and Paula Broadwell Krantz because Hastings ripped their guts out by his writings and public comments which went all the way massacreup to Obama”s re-election, the Libyan consulate , and Israel trying to throw it for Romney.

    If you want to get beyond your own crackpot realism about the murder, start reading Hastings stuff on business insider, and my article about why Jorg Haider was assassinated.

  302. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2344398/Google-futurist-claims-uploading-entire-MINDS-computers-2045-bodies-replaced-machines-90-years.html

    Yes.By 2045 the tech curve could mean not just our data but all our conversations and thoughts will be stored.

    Terrifying.The potential for massive abuse is staggering.Thank God Feinstein and Hague are there to look after us all with care,integrity and infallability.

    *****************

    O/T and apropos zilch but Kurzweil also designed superb synthesisers and keyboards.Industry defining ones in their time that still lead the pack today.

  303. “Journalist Michael Hastings dies in car crash”

    “And he was incredibly tense and very worried, and was concerned that the government was looking in on his material as they are on a lot of the top journalists in the country.”

    http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/06/20/hast-j20.html

  304. http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/06/work-for-the-un/comment-page-2/#comment-413719

    So what Dreoilin. Keep going on why don’t you. You are petty.

  305. Someone keeps messing with my lap top, so I can hardly be sure what it will come up with now, bur the word ‘massacre’ was put after the word ‘consulate’ by me, and, of course, I am talking about Hastings.

  306. FFS Komodo …

    I used to be a great multitasker. Not so much now after so many decades. I can’t keep up with the topic changes here. I know I post O/T occasionally myself, but

    On this page only (not even counting the whole thread) we’ve had, so far,

    Australia Post issues Israeli propaganda stamps

    An e-petition

    Iraq damages cases

    Drilling in the Golan Heights

    Syria: Arming the rebels

    Michael Hastings

    Storyville on BBC4

    Riots in Brazil

    Oliver Kamm

    Tony Blair (again)

    John Pilger on the New Fascism

    Stephen Green

    Organ Trafficking (Israel – again)

    Gulnara

    and various other bits and bobs that I’ve missed.

    It’s unreadable. If not unreadable, it’s un-followable.

    Perhaps Villager’s suggestion about a Chat thread, where people can bring up anything they like, is not a bad idea. I’m not sure exactly how it would work, but right now it sounds good.

  307. Gone

  308. Clegg is in trouble for referring to the Saatchi/Nigella incident on his LBC phone in programme and saying he did not know if it was a fleeting thing! He has since put out a statement that he condemns all domestic violence.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10131747/Nick-Clegg-fails-to-condemn-Saatchi-assault-on-Nigella-Lawson.html

    Has anyone ever listened to him on LBC? I haven’t.

  309. “… an experimental Assalamu Alaykum.” Guano.

    Is that ‘peace be upon you’ with a funny handshake?
    :)

  310. Dreoilin, wrt ‘multitasking’ and focussing, etc., you may wish to consider visiting the ‘second’ Al Hilli thread instead; 16,000 comments (the first had 8,000) and climbing. But actually, though there have been digressions and expansions, that thread – frequented in the main by an entirely different set of contributors from the rest of this blog – has stayed remarkably focussed.

  311. @ Dreoilin’s departing footsteps -

    Don’t forget Yemen….

    Seriously, once the comments have gone onto page 2, the topic’s evaporated, and ’twas ever thus. And I do know what you mean, but every time someone points this out, it gets acrimonious.

    Straw poll: On a scale of 0-10, where do the following behaviours rate, IYHO?
    1. Female circumcision
    2. Stirring the shit in the Middle East (all)
    3. Taksim Square protests
    4. Brazilian protests
    5. Bankers’ bonuses
    6. Two exceedingly rich and famous-for-being-famous pissheads having a public fight in a swanky restaurant.

    If(6) scored more than 1, congratulations. You’ve been diverted.

  312. Legal Aid petition -less than 6000 signatures needed -

    (see Clark 19 Jun, 2013 – 11:31 am)

    94,152 signatures, including mine.

  313. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    20 Jun, 2013 - 2:19 pm

    @ Dreoilin

    My God, you’re right! Mary raised it at 07h04 – which just goes to show that when Mary’s around you have to get up really early if you want to be the first to bring readers up to date with the actualité :)

    I hope, Dreoilin, that you enjoyed Komodo’s refutation of your comment – Mary didn’t “address” it, she just “raised” it. Yeah, sure, big difference. LOL

  314. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    20 Jun, 2013 - 2:22 pm

    @ Flaming June :

    “So what Dreoilin. Keep going on why don’t you. You are petty.”
    ____________

    Boo hoo!! Sob sob!! Some nasty person has dared to disagree with me again!

  315. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    20 Jun, 2013 - 2:30 pm

    @ Dreoilin

    “It’s unreadable. If not unreadable, it’s un-followable.

    Perhaps Villager’s suggestion about a Chat thread, where people can bring up anything they like, is not a bad idea. I’m not sure exactly how it would work, but right now it sounds good.”
    ______________

    I also think Villager’s idea was a good one.

    But it would never work.

    Not for practical reasons but because readers would tend not to bother to refer back to such a thread on a regular basis.

    And that would be unacceptable to the Eminences because it would mean that the brilliance of their reasoning and the profundity of their thought (not to mention the elegance of their style) might be…overlooked! Unnoticed, even!! Wasted!!!

    And Mary’s running BBC/msm quotation service would lose even more of the little point it currently has.

    You see, the Eminences, including Mary, always have to be at the front of the pack and you’re not allowed not to have what they want to communicate rammed down your throat subitissimo.

  316. @Habbabkuk 2:19 pm

    NB. Not poetry,

    Mary’s rising time?

    “addressed it” or “raised it?

    WTF has that got to do with anything?

    Half the world is being screwed and that’s the best you can do………Oh why am I feeding you again?

  317. I think the idea of a Chat Room is neither required, nor would really work; O/T comments will naturally always occur over a period, especially always on the latest Thread, as breaking news or other items of general interest are going to be reported & discussed.

    In a way, there is a sense that even the apparently O/T items, are not really totally unconnected with the general themes & issues that motivate us all to come here in the first place (trolls excepted); it’s not like somebody was posting latest developments from the world of Train Spotters or other such obscure interest groups !

    As the Al Hilli thread has been mentioned, I repeat my suggestion to Jon/Craig, that perhaps it would be a good idea to have still active threads shown on the side, with easy access clickable goto links.

  318. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    20 Jun, 2013 - 2:37 pm

    Flaming June asks, à propos Nick Clegg’s LBC programme and Nigella Lawson (I’ll say it again, she’s a peach!) :

    “Has anyone ever listened to him on LBC? I haven’t.”
    _______________

    Perhaps she should have. By so doing, she would have heard his remarks in their entirety, in his voice and with the tone of his voice, any hesitations (or absence of such) and in their complete context and have been able to make up her own mind rather than relying on whatever spin the Daily Telegraph (Mary’s source here – usually despised by her) may have chosen to give to them.

  319. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    20 Jun, 2013 - 2:47 pm

    @ KingofWelshNoir (07h44)

    Thanks for that and I’ll come back to you (and perhaps also to Macky if I think it’s worth it), but later on. I have a rather pleasant event I have to speed off to in a moment (clue : tea is involved :) )

  320. Oh, dear. What’s he trying to divert us from now?
    This, maybe?

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/20/us-palestinian-israel-children-idUSBRE95J0FR20130620

    Palestinian children in the Gaza and the West Bank, captured by Israel in the 1967 war, are routinely denied registration of their birth and access to health care, decent schools and clean water, the U.N. Committee on the Rights of the Child said.

    “Palestinian children arrested by (Israeli) military and police are systematically subject to degrading treatment, and often to acts of torture, are interrogated in Hebrew, a language they did not understand, and sign confessions in Hebrew in order to be released,” it said in a report.

    Israelis say lol, this is old stuff (you should see what we’re getting up to NOW).

  321. Dreoilin, don’t despair. When you come to realise that this blog has now become a parody of itself you can then appreciate how posting comments can improve your typing skills. On occasion, people will help with grammar, etymology, latin and sarcasm. And sometimes, regulars will offer gardening tips, a delicious new recipe or a new way of venting their end-of-life frustrations.

  322. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    20 Jun, 2013 - 2:55 pm

    @ Komodo

    “6. Two exceedingly rich and famous-for-being-famous pissheads having a public fight in a swanky restaurant.”
    ___________

    Pleasant event or not, I can’t leave Nigella undefended!

    1/. She’s well-off, but not THAT rich. And anyway, even if she was, so what?

    2/. Famous for being famous? Not really fair, that. They’re both talented people in their fields – fields which do put them in the public eye.

    3/. Pissheads? I don’t know about Charles, but Nigella certainly isn’t.

    If I go on like this, I’ll be calling her “fragrant”, like that twit of a judge who called Mary Archer that during her husband’s trial and I really don’t want to go there, so byeeee

  323. @Macky 2 32pm

    “….a good idea to have still-active threads shown on the side, with easy access clickable go to links.”

    Yes please.

    And Jon, thanks for allowing the conversation to wander. Doesn’t it both give the core issues context and allow for surprising facets to be revealed?

    With any luck information and debate pop up here which, I’m sure, spark off real-world conversations on these issues. That’s surely where the dismantling of the false narratives needs to be happening if we are to have any positive change.

    Also I think we need to let off excess emotional charge occasionally after the first focused flurry of any thread. A handy lightening rod is alwas at hand! Bless him/her. (Originally no “her”. Sexist I know, but I just can’t imagine the chief troll as a “her” myself.)

  324. No need for trolls when you’ve got Posters who are unable to keep from having nasty pops at others; sowing discord, all in a day’s work for laughing trolls.

  325. Ah. It IS the UNCRC report.

  326. You guys should get employment with the LA coroner.

    He still isn’t convinced that Hastings was in his Benz which exploded and burned early Tuesday morning, and won’t be sure for weeks.

    It was the same office which determined that whistle-blowing FBI agent at Burbank Steve Ivens – who was set-up as a potential Obama assassin during the high point of the presidential campaign in May 2012 because he knew what was really going on at its Bob Hope International Airport, and then was conveniently murdered – was a suicide after his body was finally found just blocks from where he lived and a mere 100 yards from the church he attended after an 85-day manhunt..

    LA seems to be the ideal location for a controversial murder, and getting away with it.

  327. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    20 Jun, 2013 - 3:07 pm

    @ Komodo

    Last one before I hop off.

    “Oh, dear. What’s he trying to divert us from now?
    This, maybe?

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/20/us-palestinian-israel-children-idUSBRE95J0FR20130620

    Palestinian children in the Gaza and the West Bank,….”
    _________________

    Correct, it was a cunning plot to divert people’s attention from something which you hadn’t posted.

    Chump!

    Please don’t tell me the subject of your next post lest I divert attention from it before you post.

  328. “but I just can’t imagine the chief troll as a “her” myself.)”

    Sure you can;

    http://www.picturevip.com/x/clean/images/2013/06/18/cxJX8.jpg

    (If I were a betting man, I lay odds that the Habbu-Clown is of a similar inclination !)

  329. Well when the conversation dries up, ye olde thread is revisited; The out of topic comments.

    Seeing as this blog is now subject to hosting the wannabe PHD researchers, whose remit is so focused that will not allow for any deviation from the subject at hand otherwise which can cost humongous amounts of time and money!

    There are those who take themselves really seriously around here, thank crunchie they are not the blog owners. will these guys write in green pen to the BBC and Sky complaining about the flighty news readers mixing all manner of stuff together? Then there are the papers, these too mix up all the topic under the sun, but hey Mary did not write or broadcast any of them did she?!

    Mary keep up the good work, and damn the moaners, they each have their own axe to grind, and their senior moments are getting more and more of an apparent trend.

    PS Komodo I have not the time to respond to your question regards the DV issue, we are both on the same page-ish. However, as you have mentioned the perpetrators can be from either gender and the results equally terrible, hence the evident bias against males ought not overlook the female bullies who are busy abusing their men folk. Hopefully we can revisit this issue when there is enough time for both of us.

  330. But I did post it, and you quoted it. Have you flushed your meds down the toilet again?

    I’m posting this link, here.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/351208/irs-vs-pro-israel-groups-eliana-johnson

    There. See what I did? I posted it. Now you can distract attention from it. Fine.

    Fascinating story, though.

    The IRS’s practices as described by Muthert touch on a political debate that has been raging in the United States and Israel since 2009. That’s when Washington Post columnist David Ignatius noted that opponents of Israeli settlements were fighting against tax exemption for groups that raise charitable contributions for organizations that support Israeli settlements. “Critics of Israeli settlements question why American taxpayers are supporting indirectly, through the exempt contributions, a process that the government condemns,” Ignatius wrote.

    On March 27, 2009, the day after Ignatius’s article appeared, the Arab-American Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC) filed a spate of administrative complaints with the Treasury Department and the IRS, alleging that pro-Israel groups raising funds for settlements in the West Bank were supporting “illegal and terrorist activities abroad.” Later that year, in October, the ADC said that it was waging an ongoing legal campaign against the IRS for what the ADC regarded as violations of the tax code by some pro-Israel groups.

  331. Macky, that is discriminatory against gorillas in bikinis.

  332. http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/20/us-palestinian-israel-children-idUSBRE95J0FR20130620

    Palestinian children in the Gaza and the West Bank, captured by Israel in the 1967 war, are routinely denied registration of their birth and access to health care, decent schools and clean water, the U.N. Committee on the Rights of the Child said.

    “Palestinian children arrested by (Israeli) military and police are systematically subject to degrading treatment, and often to acts of torture, are interrogated in Hebrew, a language they did not understand, and sign confessions in Hebrew in order to be released,” it said in a report.

    We have not heard any of the ziofuckwit claim “the shitty little strip of land” is the only democracy in the mid east, Asia, the planet, the solar system, they galaxy, the universe, and ever, and ever! If anyone does not agree then they are antisomits and stuff.

    Fucking pitiful to get kids who lack any education to sign an official document in foreign. How low these crazy ziofuckwits will stoop?

  333. Sophia Zabolotna-Habbercake

    20 Jun, 2013 - 3:31 pm

    Habba 3 07pm

    Dad!

    Go easy on the sherry will you and when your hand’s steady enough check this…..

    @Komodo

    20 Jun, 2013 – 2:49 pm

    Komodo, you Chump! Fancy not posting stuff you’ve already posted. How can anyone ever take you seriously again?

  334. Sophia Zabolotna-Habbercake

    20 Jun, 2013 - 3:40 pm

    OOps. Sorry Komodo I see you already dealt with it.

    that’s the first time I’ve seen dad come up with genuine information. Funny how it was information counter to everything he’s ever promoted on these threads. But he obviously thought that was a price worth paying to make himself look cleverer than you. Even better that the lazy old fool hadn’t read your earlier post.

    And in the meantime

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/20/us-palestinian-israel-children-idUSBRE95J0FR20130620

    gets a really good bit of exposure. Genius!

    Who’s the Chump now!

  335. discriminatory against gorillas

    Steady on old chap, what gorillas have done, for you to insult the poor things in the most egregious fashion?

    Those images shocked me, I say shocked me, I tell you shocked me, in a nasty sort of way, I was not expecting anything like that, but then I saw the funny side of it, but still I am in shock, the ugly guy who has posed for these pics.

  336. “He still isn’t convinced that Hastings was in his Benz which exploded and burned early Tuesday morning, and won’t be sure for weeks”

    Nor should he be. The body in the car was so badly burned it was unidentifiable. DNA analysis takes a fair while.

  337. Sofia Zabolotna-Habbercake

    20 Jun, 2013 - 4:03 pm

    @Macky 3 08pm

    Now that’s just plain scary! But kinda funny.
    I have to admit, even in my wildest nightmares that wouldn’t be Dad.
    LOL

  338. Flaming June

    20 Jun, 2013 - 4:09 pm

    I always say that Her Maj becomes very animated around horses. Especially so today as she picks up £198,000+ for winning the Gold Cup with a horse called Estimate that the Aga Khan gave her for her 80th birthday.

    The total prize money for the ‘meeting’ is over £10 million. All the toads were crawling round her. Her son, the arms salesman, gave her the prize.

    Raise the flags. Ring out the bells. It’s Austerity Great Britain, 2013.

  339. Sofia Zabolotna-Habbercake

    20 Jun, 2013 - 4:10 pm

    If you were a betting man/woman/gorilla, what would you say were the odds for that being a genuine car accident?

    Now that’s genuinely scary.

  340. SAMs from No Man’s Island, Jives. Another honest mistake by the spooks.

  341. Just lost another post by allegedly getting thee CAPTCHA check wrong, and redoing it a few times accomplished nothing.

    Coroners should increasingly be establishing what occurred too – e.g., an apparent murder, an accident,etc., as assassinations are increasingly made to look like accidents or suicides.

    Look what happened in the Kelly and Ivens cases. Brutal murders were made out to look like suicides, thanks to delays coroners engaged in. They both were rumored to be some kind of terrorist attack, and then the coroners settled for suicides.

    I think that the Mossad carried have arranged all three murders, i.e., getting a kidon which had moored on The Thames the fatal night to get rid of Kelly, it could have gotten a Las Vegas hitman to kill Ivens who an FBI agent then killed in a stakeout, and then it got agents who knew of the auto wiring which killed Haider to do in Hastings.

    We live in a world suffering from crackpot realism aka cognitive dissonance.

  342. Craig ran a blog-post on the fate and deportation from Cambodia of Gottfrid Swartholm Warg the Pirate Bay founder. The details of his arrest were alarming.

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/09/gottfrid-svartholm-warg-charged-again-in-sweden/

    Unfortunately he, and another Swede, have been found guilty. He has been sentenced to two years in prison, a long time for a young man who has arguably done little wrong.

    http://www.thelocal.se/48616/20130620/

  343. Poor Trowbridge. Still hasn’t worked out how to use the intergoogle as a mass dissemination means for half-baked, fruit-pie ramblings.

    Listen up, old-fella :

    1. Type up your kooky comment using notepad or similar text editor. Select the text you wrote in the editor and copy to clipboard.

    2. Go to Craig’s blog and hit “refresh”. Make sure you’re on the right thread this time.

    3. Quickly paste your comment in the big white box (no jokes please) and enter your answer to Jon’s mathematical brain-teaser. Press “Submit Comment”.

    4. Select previous tab titled “Naked Jane Mansfield pics”, right click and select “close”.

    4. Go to window and look out, discreetly, for any sign of suspicious activity that might be NSA related eg pizza van.

    5. Make a cup of tea and think about Jane Mansfield.

    Hope that helps.

  344. 6. Double check that you didn’t enter a number twice.

    7. Turn on tellie, watch Matlock.

  345. 8. Press backspace several times and retype tellie.

  346. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    20 Jun, 2013 - 5:21 pm

    @ Komodo:

    Terribly sorry, I hadn’t realised that you’d already posted that link to the Reuters article on the abuse of Palestinian children BEFORE your post at 14h49.

    Could you just indicate exactly when you posted it previously?

    Thanks!

  347. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    20 Jun, 2013 - 5:27 pm

    Flaming June informs us as follows :

    “I always say that Her Maj becomes very animated around horses.”

    _____________

    No problem with that, surely?

    She probably prefers the company of horses to that of a lot of the human beings she meets.

    I can sympathize with her.

    I, for example, would much prefer the company of Caligula’s horse to yours

    Neigh! Neigh!

  348. BrianFujisan

    20 Jun, 2013 - 5:33 pm

    How they Hide things. Here’s a graph showing the public’s perception of Iraqi deaths. Shocking

    http://medialens.org/images/stories/ComRes_graphic_Melanie_Patrick_revised.jpg

  349. Dreoilin
    “We are all potential suspects now..”

    Or, in regard to mass spying, we are all potential victims of being framed.

  350. Suhayl

    Just thinking about the guano mountain covered in millions of creatures like HalfCockRoach who resides ibidem.
    If the cockroaches/trolls weren’t constantly eating the truth/ incisive comments the mountain of truth would get too big for the cave.
    In this perfect, balanced symbiosis/co-existence between satire and sentimentality, if there were no truth-seekers, trolls would find no food.

  351. Thanks, Jemand, but seems simpler just to write the post here, and then hope for the best with the CAPTCHA number to defeat the spam.

    Hope you get the hang of cruising now through the internet, so that you can soon write something relevant to what is being discussed here.

  352. I have it reliably that ‘Sofia Zabolotna-Habbercake’ and ‘Kibo Noh’ are sock-puppets. Watch one of them gloves fall away soon enough.

  353. @BrianFujisan 5:33 pm

    What a simple but powerful graphic!

    Doesn’t it just show how effective the propaganda has been.

    That image needs to adorn the sides of buses and tube stations.

    http://medialens.org/images/stories/ComRes_graphic_Melanie_Patrick_revised.jpg

  354. “Macky
    20 Jun, 2013 – 3:08 pm
    “but I just can’t imagine the chief troll as a “her” myself.)”

    Sure you can;

    http://www.picturevip.com/x/clean/images/2013/06/18/cxJX8.jpg

    (If I were a betting man, I lay odds that the Habbu-Clown is of a similar inclination !)”
    ——
    Macky, i’m surprised that you have no shame in letting people into your deep inner imaginings. But then even great students of history can have bad taste. And, of course, you are conditioned by the Internet Age where ‘everything goes’.

  355. I wish to nominate the KingofWelshNoir for some sort of award for the delightful phrase “where there is a chasm between the cruel things the west does and the way they are laundered and perfumed by such organs as the BBC.”

    :)

  356. Yes Cryptonym agree, very well articulated. Thanks for highlighting. Let’s call it the ZOOKD award. Where’s Glenn?

  357. Lost another post because of spam control, but it won’t stop me because it was about the LA Times article about Michael Hastings investigation of Jill Kelley’s suit against Mossad agent Paula Broadwell – what would have blown her compromising DCI General David Petraeus for the Israelis sky high.

    little wonder that the Mossad disposed of Hastings when he, like Jorg Haider, started to revive what it thought it had already disposed of.

  358. Now the question Is:

    Is the whole furore over Snowden just a diversion to help distract the media and the public away from the Mossad’s assassination of Hastings because he threatened to destroy a lot in Washington, especially the CIA?

  359. “But interviews with more than a dozen current and former government and technology officials and outside experts show that, while Prism has attracted the recent attention, the program actually is a relatively small part of a much more expansive and intrusive eavesdropping effort.”

    http://www.newser.com/article/da6u8j780/what-makes-prism-work-national-security-agencys-megadata-collection-from-internet-pipeline.html

  360. Hope you get the hang of cruising now through the internet, so that you can soon write something relevant to what is being discussed here.

    You will have to type in capitals for him to read/hear the message. Anyone debating Jayne Mansfield and her naked pics is in all probabilities afflicted with hearing loss and eyesight troubles.

  361. Palestinian children tortured, used as shields by Israel: U.N

    By Stephanie Nebehay
    Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:35pm EDT

    GENEVA (Reuters) – A United Nations human rights body accused Israeli forces on Thursday of mistreating Palestinian children, including by torturing those in custody and using others as human shields.

    Palestinian children in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, captured by Israel in the 1967 war, are routinely denied registration of their birth and access to health care, decent schools and clean water, the U.N. Committee on the Rights of the Child said.

    “Palestinian children arrested by (Israeli) military and police are systematically subject to degrading treatment, and often to acts of torture, are interrogated in Hebrew, a language they did not understand, and sign confessions in Hebrew in order to be released,” it said in a report.11

    /..

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/20/us-palestinian-israel-children-idUSBRE95J0UJ20130620

    Terrible.

  362. Sorry I should have checked back. Now that I have, avoiding the usual garbage, I see that the UN Report on Israel’s abuse and ill treatment of Palestinian children had already been posted.

  363. Liam Fox was the after dinner speaker at a Surrey Conservatives gathering tonight. I am afraid I did not have enough courage to gatecrash it carrying a placard saying ‘Where’s Werritty?’.

    It was £45 for a ticket or £400 for a table for 10.

    A snip in Austerity Great Britain 2013.

  364. THANKS, FEDUP, I’LL KEEP IT IN MIND

    IN REGARD TO HASTINGS’ HORRIFIC DEMISE AND THE GUARDIAN, I NOTICE IT HAS NO ACCOUNT OF IT. TOO BUSY POSTING SNOWDEN’S STUFF.

    AND FOR THE MEDIA, THERE IS A REVETTING ACCOUNT ABOUT CNN’S HOWARD KURTZ, MOVING TO FOX NEWS.

  365. I’ve just been reading through some of Edward Snowden’s responses to Guardian readers’ comments about him being considered a traitor because of his revelations. This made me laugh.

    “Further, it’s important to bear in mind I’m being called a traitor by men like former Vice President Dick Cheney. This is a man who gave us the warrantless wiretapping scheme as a kind of atrocity warm-up on the way to deceitfully engineering a conflict that has killed over 4,400 and maimed nearly 32,000 Americans, as well as leaving over 100,000 Iraqis dead. Being called a traitor by Dick Cheney is the highest honor you can give an American, and the more panicked talk we hear from people like him, Feinstein, and King, the better off we all are. If they had taught a class on how to be the kind of citizen Dick Cheney worries about, I would have finished high school.”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/17/edward-snowden-nsa-files-whistleblower#block-51bf34b5e4b0d3c14258337e

  366. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    20 Jun, 2013 - 11:34 pm

    “”We can neither confirm nor deny FBI investigative activity,” Ari Dekofsky, a spokeswoman for the FBI’s Los Angeles field office, told U.S. News. “Sometimes that can change, sometimes it can never change.”

    http://www.usnews.com/news/newsgram/articles/2013/06/20/wikileaks-journalist-michael-hastings-under-fbi-investigation-before-death

    Yeah, we know….policy. What did Snowden say about policy…”it’s like a ratchet that only loosens’

  367. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    20 Jun, 2013 - 11:36 pm

    Dare I say it? We are all Hastings, now.

  368. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    20 Jun, 2013 - 11:41 pm

    ” During the weeks before he was killed in a car crash in Los Angeles, reporter Michael Hastings was researching a story about a privacy lawsuit brought by Florida socialite Jill Kelley against the Department of Defense and the FBI.

    Hastings, 33, was scheduled to meet with a representative of Kelley next week in Los Angeles to discuss the case, according to a person close to Kelley. Hastings wrote for Rolling Stone and the website BuzzFeed.

    Kelley alleges that military officials and the FBI leaked her name to the media to discredit her after she reported receiving a stream of emails that were traced to Paula Broadwell, a biographer of former CIA director David H. Petraeus, according to a lawsuit filed in Federal District Court in Washington, D.C., on June 3.”

    http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-michael-hastings-jill-kelly-case-20130620,0,2559316.story

    Ah, yes the Petraeus/McChrystal Junta. I think that originated in Honduras.

  369. Trowbridge, I am convinced Snowden is a genuine whistleblower. The Guardian gets a lot of criticism but since Glenn Greenwald joined it is starting to seem more like the Guardian of old. I’ve written to the editor and thanked him.

  370. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    20 Jun, 2013 - 11:45 pm

    She certainly had a radical, Left-wing jihadist history.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jill_Kelley

    “Jill Kelley was born Gilberte Khawam in Beirut, Lebanon[6] on June 3, 1975. Kelley’s family includes her identical twin sister, Natalie Khawam,[7] a brother, David Khawam, and sister, Caroline.[8] Jill’s parents [9] are Lebanese-American Maronite Catholics who immigrated to the United States from Jounieh, Lebanon in the mid-1970s.[10] Kelley grew up in suburban Philadelphia, where her parents owned a restaurant. Kelley lived in the Philadelphia area until her mid-20s.[11] Kelley attended Arcadia University.[8]

    Kelley is married to cancer surgeon Dr. Scott Kelley, and the two live with their three children in Tampa, Florida.[10] Jill Kelley put her medical studies on hold at one point to have a baby.[12] Since moving to Tampa, Kelley has devoted considerable time to community service, both to the local homeless as well as to the large community of servicemen and women in the Tampa area.[13]

    In March 2011, she received the Joint Chief of Staff Award for public service for “building positive relationships between the military and the Tampa community”.[14

  371. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    20 Jun, 2013 - 11:47 pm

    Trowbridge; You have my respect, and I think you’ve forgotten more than critics will ever learn.

  372. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    20 Jun, 2013 - 11:55 pm

  373. Flaming June
    20 Jun, 2013 – 7:10 am John Pilger. Powerful words Mary Thank-you. I have cast them into the big pond and I will say those words on the radio show.

  374. [Throwing] ..Edward Snowden into that mix because he, too, is an admirer of WikiLeaks. And Hastings’ last article was about the evils of the NSA – which ended with the tantalising line, “Perhaps more information will soon be forthcoming.” Glenn Greenwald Tweeted a link to the piece after Hastings’ death. Of such connections are conspiracy theories made.

    In the minds of the highly imaginative, that is.

    So what is WikiLeaks trying to say with this Tweet? Is it simply priming us for a revelation about why Hastings was being investigated? Or is it trying to imply that there’s some link between Hastings contacting Jennifer Robinson and the journalist’s death? If so, we might have – in the words of Michael Moynihan – a peg for yet another kind of truther.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100222652/wikileaks-says-michael-hastings-contacted-it-just-before-his-death-are-they-implying-he-was-murdered/

  375. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Jun, 2013 - 12:36 am

  376. So sick of those,like bawbag Hague,who parrot the old line “if you’ve got nothing to hide you’ve got nothing to fear”

    Shite.

    Exactly what the Nazis and Stasi said-and look where that ended up…

    The more i think about this issue the more my mind moves towards the blackmail potential.All these Govt spook agencies and the corporate leviathans are moving beyond the assessing of criminal behaviour into moral judgement.A most worrying development.

    e.g.Say I’m having an affair.It’s not illegal but i still want to hide it.These Govt and corporate snoops are validating,therefore,their idea that what is not illegal may still be “wrong”.

    Very worrying the turn from potential criminal investigation/snooping into the complex but legal arena of moral matters.

    Like i said,dead wrong and very worrying.

    I see it all as basically a blackmailers charter and find it extremely sinister.

    We all should be very worried about this.Anyone who isn’t is a fool.

    History has taught us this repeatedly.

  377. Eric Schmidt of Google is the latest in a long line of crazed authoritarian idiots hammering this line.

    Well Eric,i guess the only thing you have to hide is your tax.

    What a complete hypocrite and sinister fool.

  378. BrianFujisan

    21 Jun, 2013 - 1:27 am

    Mark
    there certainly seems to be something in that about Hastings contacting Wikileaks

    He claims to have been under observation for almost two years, but contacting Wikileaks, Bastards wont have that

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2345332/Paranoid-Michael-Hastings-told-WikiLeaks-lawyer-investigated-FBI-hours-deadly-car-crash.html

  379. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Jun, 2013 - 1:31 am

    “Michael’s journalistic roots were in the 1970s, in gonzo writers like Hunter S. Thompson who flung their bodies at the story, and often got hurt. He had been badly hurt once: His fiancée was killed in Baghdad in January 2007, when he was a Newsweek reporter there, and her death was still utterly raw to him when he published his first book, I Lost My Love in Baghdad.”

    HST lives….huzzah link to follow next post.

  380. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Jun, 2013 - 1:36 am


    He cared about his image — he worked out hard, looked good in clothes and in pictures, and enjoyed it — but he always cared more about the story. One day last fall, he had a furious exchange with a spokesman for Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. His impulse, and mine, was to print the back-and-forth, the crucial exchange of which was:

    Reines: Why do you bother to ask questions you’ve already decided you know the answers to?

    Hastings: Why don’t you give answers that aren’t bullshit for a change?

    But there was a problem: Michael had not exactly conducted himself as well-mannered professional in the exchange. “You will look,” I pointed out to him, “like an asshole.”

    “Everyone knows I’m an asshole,” he said. “The point is that they’re assholes.”

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/missing-michael-hastings

    Nothing I love more than a shite-kicking iconoclast.

  381. Excuse me chaps, but finally got the time for some late replies, as I don’ want to appear to be rude !

    @Komodo; “Macky, that is discriminatory against gorillas in bikinis.”

    Maybe, but at least I spared everybody the G-String version !

    @Sofia; “I have to admit, even in my wildest nightmares that wouldn’t be Dad.”

    Seems there are things about your father that you are still yet to discover, poor child !

    @Hubbu-Clown; “I, for example, would much prefer the company of Caligula’s horse to yours
    Neigh! Neigh!”

    Yet another of your peculiar predilections ?;

    http://www.kmkz.ro/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/la-vache-qui-rit-kamikaze.jpg

    @Villager; “Macky, i’m surprised that you have no shame in letting people into your deep inner imaginings. But then even great students of history can have bad taste. And, of course, you are conditioned by the Internet Age where ‘everything goes’.”

    My only shame is that when I first encountered you, with all your talk of Krishnamurti, I took you seriously.

  382. Jives

    OK. So you’ve decided to have your affair. Much better not to in public unless you are one of those whose main pleasure in the affair is annoying the sensibilities of others. What moral path do you want to go down?
    1/ Catholic. Don’t worry Jesus understands, not like the big daddy God upstairs. That’ll be allright you’ll find.
    2/ Atheist. Humans are the same as cows. Their lower nature is controlled by hormones which are part of the automated body functions over which the mind has no control.
    3/ Shi’a. It’s a temporary marriage
    4/ Protestant. This is going to hurt someone, better crank up the lying strength mode to full power.
    5/ Sunni. Convert these desires into a combined sexual/spiritual bond which has the potential to survive the death barrier into the next life.

    Take your pick and stand by it. The pooper snoopers are there to remind you of your decision, but your decision will probably change with time. My problem is that I don’t always want to be reminded of my own stupidity/weaknesses. But that’s not a problem with being judged, that’s a problem with being reminded, when I’d prefer to move on.

  383. @Cryptonym

    I wish to nominate the KingofWelshNoir for some sort of award for the delightful phrase “where there is a chasm between the cruel things the west does and the way they are laundered and perfumed by such organs as the BBC.”

    @Villager

    Yes Cryptonym agree

    Thank you btoh for your kind words. I accept the award and wish to dedicate it to Edward Snowden and the people who post regularly on this blog.

  384. Flaming June

    21 Jun, 2013 - 8:30 am

    Watched QT last night mainly to see how Russell Brand stood up to the four right wingers, Boris, Jowell, Davey, and Mad Mel Phillips. Quite well.

    Melanie Phillips was allowed to have a rant against Iran (destruction of Israel, creating a nuclear bomb, etc) and some prophesy about Shia Muslims bringing about the Apocalypse and the creation of a Shia Messiah. She made the audience angry. It is obvious that people are more aware of the lies they are being fed by the media.

    Then ar the end of this segment, this question came from a lady in the audience. It was answered by Boris and swiftly squelched by Dimblebore. Quoted here from a Medialens contributor.

    ‘Pertinent Israel-related question from audience member quickly trampled over and left behind ignored

    Posted by nadimhanbury on June 20, 2013, 11:42 pm, in reply to “Mad Mel….living up to her name and losing it…Iran wiping Israel off the map and all! (nm)”

    At the end of the section discussing Syria (and Iran), an audience member very eloquently and politely was (regrettably no doubt) allowed to ask: (sic)
    “With the new Iranian president assuring greater transparency of its nuclear programme, dont you think the international community should demand the same of Israel?”
    Over to Boris, who knows the score, and he talks for a minute or so just about Iran, then “we have to move on”!
    Worth watching for the unspoken pro Zionist teamwork evident between Dimbo and Boris. Brand was looking as if he wanted to speak, but unfortunately didn’t jump in.
    About 10 mins from the end, right at the end of discussion of a parliamentary vote on arming Syrian opposition.

    Biased in the extreme, as usual on the subject of Israel.’

    The Phillips rant is at on 35mins 45secs the player.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b02zc9l5/Question_Time_20_06_2013/

    Other subjects discussed, apart from arming Syrian rebels, were drug decriminalisation and the high cost of rents in London.

  385. Archbishop Takes Bung Investigation Shock Horror

    Sentamu to resign after he laundered cash for Russian expats?

    No, not really, sorry. Wrong chief druid:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/20/yona-metzger-interrogated-israels-chief-rabbi-suspected-of-fraud_n_3473175.html

  386. Flaming June

    21 Jun, 2013 - 9:20 am

    Doublespeak on the BBC.

    When is a ‘rebel’ a ‘militant’?

    http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/thread/1371800048.html

  387. Flaming June

    21 Jun, 2013 - 9:49 am

    Prejudice, racism and violence against the Palestinians.

    Big Racists vs Little Racists
    How Israeli apartheid is coming unstuck

    by Jonathan Cook / June 21st, 2013
    http://dissidentvoice.org/2013/06/big-racists-vs-little-racists/

  388. I watched QT last night and am appalled that the BBC now needs to goad the public into reacting with the likes of elanie Phillips. Not only was the audience more clued up, even the panel did not agree with her.

    I don’t know about the past history of Melanie Phillips and Dick Dimbleby, but her appearance on this infotainment program is clearly down to more than just bias.
    @komodo, Yona Metzgers arrest was only for fraud, money laundering and accepting bribes, Who knows what the archbishop of Canterbury gets up to, or the new pope, people in position of trust and power, blah blah.

    Just shows that humanity whence placed into any position of power, regardless of its ethics aims or objectives being communitarian and/or humanitarian, it will be abused for personal gain.

    What this means is that the value systems ion this world are collapsing like a pack of cards. Trust in religious organisations who for decades have abused their congregation and their offspring has resulted in a flight from established religions throughout the western world and I expect us to enter a period of anarchy in all its forms.

  389. “A short item on the story appeared at the end of the “Today” programme but there has been no further mention, indicating that the BBC is fully on board with the D-Notice.”

    http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/06/21/cens-j21.html

  390. “Questions surround death of journalist Michael Hastings”

    http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/06/21/hast-j21.html

  391. I watched QT last night and am appalled that the BBC now needs to goad the public into reacting with the likes of elanie Phillips. Not only was the audience more clued up, even the panel did not agree with her.

    I don’t watch QT any longer. Though I have heard that Melanie Philips was booed and jeered by the audience in the last night episode. This ziofuckwitess along with the rest of the hasbara brigade (check her bio note the sycophantic undertones probably written by the hasbara personnel) are relentless in their fight against their perceived enemies of the zionistan that is mainly everyone on the planet other than the ziofuckwits themselves.

    These virulent, racist (evidently she has referred to the audience as “Ignorant” and “brainwashed by the Muslims”), crazy bastards have been the diet of the bbc current affairs for so long, and this it the kind of shite spewed that formed the basis of my decision not to watch QT anymore. Fact that these lunatics have been proved to be mendacious liars and have zero credibility to be shoved into the living rooms of the people whom have been mugged for the license fee, is beyond the pale.

  392. Are you referring to Welby Nevermind? Will he go to Gaza or to the ‘West Bank’? We will see.

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/the-first-jewish-archbishop-of-canterbury-heads-to-israel/

  393. Thanx Mary I did not see your post, will watch the nodes you have highlighted (I have brought no bucket along, so cannot watch the whole of the program).

  394. The thread on Medialens http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/thread/1371755902.html
    about last night’s QT includes a link to this sneering piece from White of the Guardian.

    Russell Brand rules Question Time’s clash of the egos
    BBC lines comedian up with Boris Johnson and Melanie Phillips but the arguments fizzle rather than sizzle

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2013/jun/21/russell-brand-question-time

  395. yes I was June, who can trust any of the cassocks these days.
    @Someone, the eyewitness account of ‘hearing an explosion like a bomb, making the windows rattle’ sounds pretty comprehensive.
    Why should a car explode when hitting a palm tree front on? the tank is in the back, its unlikely to say the least.
    But if you put a timed charge next to the petrol tank and one next to the steering rack and follow his car with a detonator at the ready, this could be done.

    I don’t think that there will be much evidence left to prove very much, fire works.
    How long did it take for the fire brigade to arrive? anybody know?

  396. Kamm retweeted this White remark the other day. You get the drift.

    MichaelWhite ‏@MichaelWhite 15 Jun
    Stop the War coalition protesting outside US embassy against arming Syrian rebs. No mention yet of STW demo at Russian embassy. Wonder why?

    Retweeted by Oliver Kamm

    https://twitter.com/OliverKamm

  397. Re Michael Hastings…

    Why would the car engine end up 100 yards away if the car hit the tree head on?

    Weird.

    Do cars engines usually end up travelling so far in accidents?

    Like i say,weird.

  398. but her appearance on this infotainment program is clearly down to more than just bias.

    She’s been a regular on The Moral Maze (R4) for years, Nevermind. And she’s a very pushy lady (think she’s female). If the BBC wants to escalate her to the position of national object of ridicule, I have little objection lol.

  399. “No such thing is likely to happen. Instead, as 2013 progresses, a further downturn will become visible through the orchestrated statistics. This time the Fed will have to get the printed money past the banks and into the economy, and inflation will explode. The dollar will collapse, and import prices–as globalism has turned the US into an import-dependent economy–will turn high inflation into hyperinflation. Disruptions in food and energy deliveries will become widespread, and a depreciated currency will cease to be used as a means of exchange.”

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2013/06/20/the-rational-market-myth-paul-craig-roberts/

  400. Take a look at this picture and it becomes evident that the car did not strike the tree “head on” but slid into it sideways, the impact area being about where the driver’s door is.

    http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/ap51c10f33.jpg

    In such an impact it would be quite feasible for the engine and gearbox to be flung out; furthermore the fuel tank is not at the back. Modern safety legislation requires it to be positioned ahead of the rear axle so It’s protected in the event of a rear end collision. That would place it in or near the impact area in this case so rupturing of the tank is by no means impossible.

  401. Flaming June

    21 Jun, 2013 - 1:27 pm

    David Swanson (War Is A Crime.org) has just been on RT speaking on this obscenity.

    The US military is scrapping $170m worth of equipment in Vietghanistan as he calls it yet the Congress is currently pushing through a bill to increase military spending.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/scrapping-equipment-key-to-afghan-drawdown/2013/06/19/9d435258-d83f-11e2-b418-9dfa095e125d_print.html

  402. Flaming June

    21 Jun, 2013 - 1:38 pm

    ‘In such an impact it would be quite feasible for the engine and gearbox to be flung out; furthermore the fuel tank is not at the back. Modern safety legislation requires it to be positioned ahead of the rear axle so It’s protected in the event of a rear end collision.’

    Unless it was a Chrysler Jeep!

    Chrysler agrees to recall 2.7m Jeeps after initially refusing
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22962589

    ~~~

    On the same website I see that Google has been ordered to destroy data illicitly collected on Street View. But they have not been fined here in the UK. No, of course not. But they were in the US.

    Street View: Google given 35 days to delete wi-fi data
    Data gathered by Street View cars in more than 30 countries included passwords, emails and other data

    Related Stories
    Google staff ‘knew of snooping’
    Google fined in Street View probe

    Google has been given 35 days to delete any remaining data it “mistakenly collected” while taking pictures for its Street View service, or face criminal proceedings.

    But the UK Information Commissioner’s Office did not impose a fine.

    /..
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23002166

    ~~~

    Reminder of Agent Cameron’s cosy connections to Google.

    http://www.theweek.co.uk/politics/53582/time-get-tough-google-yes-are-relations-too-cosy

  403. Now police forces are doing everything they can to cover up the Hastings murder.

    An unidentified LAPD officer has told the LA Times that there is no evidence of foul play in the accident.

    This is the same police force which claimed that there was no evidence of FBI agent Steve Ivens having bee murdered either, though it had done nothing to even find his body, it seems, since it was found by two hitch hikers after 85 days in the area where police had conducted an intensive manhunt.

    The fact that it had been conveniently moved, like in Dr. David Kelly’s murder, simply escaped the police.

    Then the FBI has done what it can by volunteering that it was not even investigating him – what is true, but is intended to help cover up another murder that the Mossad has undoubtedly done. The Bureau was asking around to see if Hastings was on to its investigation of why Mossad agent Paula Broadwell had threatened Jill Kelley to steer clear of DCI General David Petraeus for fear that Kelltey would learn how Broadwell had ensnared the good General for the Israelis.

    You cannot make this stuff up – our so-called counter terrorists just keep cranking it out.

  404. This is the largest retrograde mission in history.”

    AKA “the biggest retreat ever”, for budding students of the jargon.

    But some people are never satisfied. Haven’t we been saying since the depression began that the Keynesian solution of increased public spending would be a better remedy than kicking the poor in the balls and giving their money to the banks? And what better way of increasing public spending than investing the government’s income (lol) in munitions production?

    Now all we need is someone to be even more terrified of than AQ, and it will all make perfect sense, trust me.

  405. Komodo at 1.44 pm was @ FJ at 1.21pm, btw. Having trouble finding a topic to be on, candidly.

  406. Now all we need is someone to be even more terrified of than AQ, and it will all make perfect sense, trust me.

    With respect to your first point; as in monopoly when someone has all the money and the property the game ends, and the winner is declared. Alas in the real world the banksters windup with all the money again and again, again, along with corporates because they are too big to fail. Trouble with this model is, the economy tanks and unless the game is restarted ie the money is back in the proletariat hands there is no game, and the banksters have to play all by themselves.

    with respect to your second point; there are the aliens in their flying saucers, and the money that can be spent on stopping these little green men from doing their voodoo, can be a handsome earner, for anyone in the business of security. However the eighteenth century tossers planning, conducting and conducting the current blood fests cannot think in the modern terms, and are too busy shoving the same old “barbarian at the gate” story. The illusive flying saucer pilots can scare the dickens out of any rapture lovin, moonshine guzzling, gun slinging, “freedom lovin” soul.

  407. Now police forces are doing everything they can to cover up the Hastings murder.

    Do you recollect Andrew Fastow? He shot himself in the back of the head with a lead slug (hit man special, for the uninitiated) twice, and the police verdict was suicide. Police have always been so thorough in their investigations when dissidents, and persons of “interest” (whose interest?) are concerned.

  408. I’m sure it’s been said, but not a cheep on the BBC about the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child report detailing the hundreds of Palestinian kids murdered by Israel over the last 10 years. If only Ian Pannell could show us the misery in Gaza (as opposed to Syria) it might spur our Governments into action…

    Shameful.

  409. No need for you to add your own porkies about Andrew Fastow, Passerby. The last I knew the former Enron finance officer was alive and well, and saying his tale about its corruption all over the place.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but if not, why don’t you just STFU?

    The sadder thing about police corruption, officials whose job is to catch criminals, is judges and professionals who have no professional benefit in going along with it.

    Just think of Lord Hutton delegating what happened to poor Dr. Kelly to suicide expert Dr. Keith Hawton, and he determined that Kelly had done so, thanks to some TV police having moved his body away from where the struggle occurred where he subsequently died to a nice peaceful spot on Harrowdown Hill where one could kill oneself.

    Let’s face it: today’s world simply sucks!

  410. I think Passerby is thinking of another Enron exec, John Clifford Baxter, who, in 2001, shot himself (allegedly) once, in the side of the head, with a Glaser Safety (sic) bullet- designed to fragment rather than ricochet. Doubts were expressed as to whether this was, as the police claimed, a suicide.

    BTW if Passerby’s fact-checking isn’t always perfect, then whose is? Yours? Hmmm.

  411. No need for you to add your own porkies about Andrew Fastow, Passerby.

    Now then, now then, then now! Stop being vulgar, and good to see that you came back with your answer. Just a little “ping” to see if you are sleep or awake?

    It was the other Andrew Fastow that I meant!

    Really it should have been J. Clifford Baxter, he was shot with a rat shot although now the rat shot has transmuted into “Glaser Safety Slug”. However you are correct about the evident endemic corruption.

    Poor Dr. Kelly he was murdered for an open secret, that now everyone is aware of and know well! Kelly’s last communication was with a “journalist” in US made, he made his last contact out of a phone box. Sadly as we all know, there has never been any hints of what was his last death bed confession? To date the “journalist” concerned has not so much as breathed a word of what Kelly told him before his kidnap and murder.

    Do you recollect Roberto Calvi? He too “suicide-d” so the Met investigations concluded! (to begin with)

    PS After pressing the submit button I noticed my mistake, about Fastow but then the devil got me to keep quiet and see how many people would actually notice the mistake. You have been awarded the gold star Trowbridge.

  412. I think Passerby is thinking of another Enron exec, John Clifford Baxter,

    Thanks there. I am sorry our comments crossed, and you have a double gold star, not only you spotted the mistake but corrected and further explored the rat shot too.

  413. Flaming June

    21 Jun, 2013 - 4:10 pm

    Quite Mike. Not a peep on this atrocity from the BBC. I can only find it reported in the Independent and the NYT. Imagine the furore if the poor woman had been Jewish. Monsieur Hollande would have been raising the roof.

    Today’s Zaman 2013-06-18

    Pregnant Muslim woman attacked in Paris loses baby

    Despite all medical efforts, a pregnant Muslim woman who was attacked by two Islamophobic men in the Paris suburb of Argenteuil on Thursday suffered a miscarriage and lost her baby, her lawyer said on Tuesday.

    The 21-year-old Muslim woman, who was four months pregnant, was physically attacked by two men. The attackers first tried taking her headscarf off and later cut off her hair and tore part of her clothing. After she screamed out that she was pregnant, one of the attackers started kicking her in the stomach.

    She was taken to Argenteuil hospital where she underwent treatment for injuries.

    /..
    http://www.todayszaman.com/newsDetail_getNewsById.action?newsId=318574

  414. Regarding Michael Hastings’ car engine ending up 100 feet from the scene of the crash and a neighbour hearing an explosion like a bomb, do you think we should all write to Mercedes to ask if their cars are safe?

  415. Further to Phil’s post yesterday to ‘this is what victory looks like’ here is an account of the changing circumstances in Kabul.
    Its becoming more dangerous for NGO’s NATO soldiers and Karzai’s administration at large. The Taliban are in charge and whatever we are hearing, our forces are in now in retreat.

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/us-talks-with-taliban-in-doha-mark-capitulation-in-afghanistan-a-907199.html

    “On Thursday, pressure from the United States and others led the group to rename the office the “Political Office of the Afghan Taliban.” Doing so openly depicted the Taliban as a parallel government that President Karzai was now supposed to come to an agreement with about sharing power.

    The move incensed President Karzai, who viewed it as an affront to his government’s sovereignty. On Wednesday, he withdrew his delegation from the talks. However, according to the Associated Press, Karzai is now willing to join the talks as long as the Taliban flag and nameplate are removed from the office and the US government sends him a formal letter of support for his government.”

  416. The move incensed President Karzai, who viewed it as an affront to his government’s sovereignty. On Wednesday, he withdrew his delegation from the talks. However, according to the Associated Press, Karzai is now willing to join the talks as long as the Taliban flag and nameplate are removed from the office and the US government sends him a formal letter of support for his government.”

    Former UNOCAL charge hand is taking himself far too seriously these days. His capitulation and his “requirements” have already been met. The flag pole has been shortened so that the Taliban flag is not seen from without the high walled compound, and the the name plate; “Emirate of Afghanistan” has been removed from the outside wall and fixed to the inner walls of the compound.

    US clearly has “won” his war too, as US has won every other war that its military has fought!

  417. Flaming June

    21 Jun, 2013 - 6:42 pm

    BBC London News have just interviewed the Tommy Robinson/EDL character about their forthcoming planned march in Woolwich. Was this a subtle way of giving them airtime and publicity? Geller is coming from the US to speak.

    This is a report on the plans from another source .
    http://www.london24.com/news/crime/call_to_ban_right_wing_speakers_from_edl_woolwich_march_1_2246357

    and the Independent on Vaz’s objections.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/rightwing-american-speakers-planning-to-join-the-edls-woolwich-march-should-be-banned-from-entering-the-country-8668686.html

  418. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Jun, 2013 - 7:03 pm

    Elise Jordan, Journalist and widow of Hastings strikes back, but about NYT’s words about McChrystal?

    Where is her statement wrt her husband’s odd ‘accident”? Why was he speeding at 4:30 am on city streets; someone with a safe driving record?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/19/michael-hastings-wife_n_3469095.html

  419. technicolour

    21 Jun, 2013 - 7:08 pm

    Good grief, people, read this. Plans to undermine Greenwald included:

    http://www.thenation.com/article/174851/strange-case-barrett-brown#axzz2Ws0B2bYh

  420. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Jun, 2013 - 7:11 pm

    Embedded center-story is this highlighted in RED, folks; nothing to see here. Move along.

    STORY: Car Experts on Michael Hastings’ Crash: No Reason to Suspect Foul Play

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/michael-hastings-crash-site-memorialized-573315

  421. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Jun, 2013 - 7:16 pm

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HBGary

    “In 2010, Aaron Barr, CEO of HBGary Federal, alleged that he could exploit social media to gather information about hackers.[3]

    In early 2011, Barr claimed to have used his techniques to infiltrate Anonymous,[3][12][13] partly by using IRC, Facebook, Twitter, and by social engineering.[3][14] His e-mails depict his intention to release information on the identities of Anonymous members at the B-Sides conference and to sell it to possible clients,[3][15] including the FBI.[16] In the e-mails, Barr explained that he identified his list of suspected Anonymous “members” by tracing connections through social media, while his main programmer criticized this methodology.[3][17] In a communiqué, Anonymous denied association with the individuals that Barr named.[18][third-party source needed]”

    Technicolour; It seems the paranoia about the intentions of sock-puppets has some justification.

  422. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    21 Jun, 2013 - 7:25 pm

    Flaming June (16h10)is angry with the BBC :

    “Quite Mike. Not a peep on this atrocity from the BBC. I can only find it reported in the Independent and the NYT”
    __________

    Had this happened in the UK, do you think French radio and television would be peeping about it?

    And how many French newspapers would mention it?

  423. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    21 Jun, 2013 - 7:34 pm

    @ Flaming June aka Mary :

    “BBC London News have just interviewed the Tommy Robinson/EDL character about their forthcoming planned march in Woolwich. Was this a subtle way of giving them airtime and publicity?”
    __________

    No.

    What is so strange about a radio station serving London reporting on something that will take place in London?

    Had the report not been made, you’d probably be suspecting the BBC of trying to ignore or suppress mention of the event.

  424. technicolour

    21 Jun, 2013 - 7:48 pm

    Ben, tried to post this but the site crashed. I don’t think we’re allowed to be paranoid anymore. It’s mostly real. Only reading Fear & Loathing on the Campaign Trail recently has cheered me any. On which note, Matt Taibbi, I realise, is a good thing, in the Hunter tradition, not a rip, as I erroneously assumed.

    But trolls, chah :)

  425. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Jun, 2013 - 7:50 pm

    “We are in touch with Snowden frequently, and we are involved in the process of brokering his asylum in Iceland,” Wikileaks founder Julian Assange said on a Wednesday press conference call.”

    http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/06/19/assange-wikileaks-brokering-asylum-for-snowden/

  426. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Jun, 2013 - 7:58 pm

    Tech; If you liked F&L on Campaign trail, you should read (Great Shark hunt, I think) where he ran for Sheriff in Aspen Colorado. It’s a hoot.

    He lost of course, but created a furor with his campaign platform.

    One of the planks was to change the name Aspen to ‘FAT CITY’ to stave off the developers.

    He shaved his head so he could refer to the other candidate as ‘My long-haired opponent’.

  427. Flaming June

    21 Jun, 2013 - 7:59 pm

    As per usual the troll attempts two diversions.

    1. The main point is that a pregnant MUSLIM woman was attacked in Paris which was a cruel, racist and SERIOUS matter.

    The BBC is quite capable of reporting TRIVIAL stories from France.
    ie Monsieur Depardieu is drunk in charge of a scooter.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23001269

    2. BBC London News is a TV station not a radio station as anyone who lived in the UK would know. The main point is that the racists of the EDL are bent on creating hate and friction against Muslims and Geller will aid the process.

    See Craig’s posts on Geller ref Breivik.
    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2011/07/who-funded-breivik/

    and three others:

    Why the Mainstream Media is Doomed
    by craig on Jul 26th 2011
    Laziness. Sloth will kill the mainstream media. All those well-paid journalists resting their fat bottoms on padded office chairs will become extinct as a breed, victims of their own inability to raise a sweat, just like the poor old dodo. On Saturday, when I posted on Brevik’s links to Pamela Geller, a google advanced search [...]

    Is Anders Breivik in This Photograph?
    by craig on Jul 25th 2011
    This 2009 rally in Oslo was attended by Breivik’s heroine, Pamela Geller. On Saturday I posted about the comments Breivik made on Geller’s Atlas Shrugs website. There is a fuller analysis on the impact of the Tea Party on Breivik’s thinking here. It turns out that Breivik also references Geller’s Atlas Shrugs blog and a [...]

    Norwegian Killer Linked to Tea Party and EDL
    by craig on Jul 23rd 2011
    Anders Behring Breivik posted links to the Atlas Shrugs website of the Tea Party’s Pamela Geller. Here you can see him under the name of Anders Behring (his middle name) posting links to Geller’s “Atlas Shrugs” site. That cache page is bing translated from Norwegian. Here is a video of Pamela Geller addressing the Tennessee [...]

    But of course, the troll would be unaware of these posts being absent from this blog then unless……

  428. Technicolour, that is alarming, especially the report on one jerk wanting to render Abdelbaset al Megrahi, who was dying from cancer, after he was released from prison on compassionate grounds (rather than let him face a retrial in which he would certainly have been acquitted). Today nobody thinks al Megrahi had anything to do with the Lockerbie plane crash of Pan Am 103 but there are a lot who would want you to think that, like David Cameron and Ed Miliband, for example.

  429. technicolour

    21 Jun, 2013 - 8:13 pm

    Ben, and he nearly won – except the other two parties leagued against him. me, I think his promise to ‘only take mescaline when not on duty’ pretty funny, but kind of wish he’d got to stand on a more angry & serious note as he was promising to do in F&LOTCT.

    John Goss: actually I found the hounding & persecution of a good journalist doing an arguably vital job (and the persecution of his mother) rather more unsettling – it is actually happening as I type? but it shows the calibre, I agree.

  430. technicolour

    21 Jun, 2013 - 8:17 pm

    and Geller is being invited to address the EDL rally in Woolwich next week. Oh brave new world. I’m posting this because it’s clever, courageous, stirring and funny (if a bit mean to the EDL members who haven’t had a chance to think it through: still, it might help them too): Mitch Benn ‘There are things worth rioting about right now’

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9oSoOeKtVQ

  431. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    21 Jun, 2013 - 8:28 pm

    @ Flaming June aka Mary

    You’re being as dishonest as usual, but also sillier than usual.

    Let’s look at your latest offering.

    1/. “As per usual the troll attempts two diversions.”

    Wrong. These are two posts in response to two posts of yours which, as usual, have nothing to do with the subject of this thread (Dreoilin – please note and add to your list of O/Ts!)

    2/. “The main point is that a pregnant MUSLIM woman was attacked in Paris which was a cruel, racist and SERIOUS matter.”

    If that was the point, why did you not just leave it at that? What did your dig at the BBC and the British press add to your point?

    3/. “BBC London News is a TV station not a radio station as anyone who lived in the UK would know. The main point is that the racists of the EDL are bent on creating hate and friction against Muslims and Geller will aid the process.”

    So that’s your “MAIN POINT”, is it? In which case, you expressed it in a singularly curious way in your post at 18h42 which, I would recall, read as follows :

    “BBC London News have just interviewed the Tommy Robinson/EDL character about their forthcoming planned march in Woolwich. Was this a subtle way of giving them airtime and publicity? Geller is coming from the US to speak”

    I had the impression that your “main point” was to suggest that the BBC was deliberately giving the EDL airtime and publicity.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    You must really decide what your “main point” is when you’re posting and once you have done so, state it clearly and resist the temptation to garnish it with silly little digs reflecting your usual obsessions.

  432. “Technicolour, that is alarming, especially the report on one jerk wanting to render Abdelbaset al Megrahi, who was dying from cancer, after he was released from prison on compassionate grounds (rather than let him face a retrial in which he would certainly have been acquitted). Today nobody thinks al Megrahi had anything to do with the Lockerbie plane crash of Pan Am 103 but there are a lot who would want you to think that, like David Cameron and Ed Miliband, for example.”

    I did a bit of research into this and there is little doubt in my mind that Megrahi was guilty as hell. However it seems that the Lockerbie bombing probably wasn’t one of the things he was guilty of.

    I think there should be a public enquiry. It’s looking like another case of the Scottish legal system being rotten to the core. The Crown Office is entirely politically motivated and with moves afoot to undermine hundreds of years of Scottish legal tradition by removing the necessity for corroboration we could well end up with some Scottish Julian Assanges.

  433. Flaming June

    21 Jun, 2013 - 9:03 pm

    Ex kibbutznik Rachel Johnson reviews old times at the Kibbutz with brother Boris. She wears blinkers.

    She should have tried the diet in Gaza to compare it with what Ottolenghi offers.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-2305291/Holidays-Israel-Rachel-Johnson-returns-land-brother-Boris-kibbutz-workers.html

    ‘But first, there was something I could do this March I couldn’t in 1984 – explore the Golan Heights, which was then a, um, lively war zone.

    The Golan is calmer now, though its status is still in dispute (I discovered it depends who you ask). White Jeeps of the UN still buzz about and there are several Israeli Defence Force army bases, not to mention lines of tank emplacements, but don’t let that put you off.’

    Not quite so calm at the moment eh Rachel?

    And not a mention of checkpoints, settlements, separation walls, the Palestinian men, women and children. Perhaps they were all invisible.

    ~~

    If the troll even thinks that I am going to engage in one of his pointless circular exchanges, he has another think coming. He can go hang.

    Meanwhile…La vita per i Palestinesi non è buona.

  434. technicolour

    21 Jun, 2013 - 9:22 pm

    Mary, with all best wishes, perhaps you should either address him, politely, as I’m sure you would like to be addressed, or ignore him altogether. No-one would mind, either way.

  435. Trigger happy and accountable to nobody.

    From Le Monde, Google Translate

    http://www.lemonde.fr/proche-orient/article/2013/06/21/jerusalem-un-garde-tue-un-visiteur-juif-au-mur-des-lamentations_3433998_3218.html

    A private Israeli security guard killed, Friday, June 21, an Israeli Jewish visitor to the Wall of Lamentation of Jerusalem, taking him for a Palestinian militant, police said.
    The Visitor “for some unknown reason, shouted ‘Allahu Akbar’ [God is the greatest, in Arabic],” said a spokesman for the police. “A security guard drew his weapon and fired several shots at the suspect, who died of his injuries.”

    The incident occurred shortly before 8 am, while the square in front of the wall was filled with faithful for the morning prayer on the eve of Shabbat, the weekly day of rest for the Jews. The security guard told the police investigators that he thought the man, aged 46, was trying to take something from his pocket and shouted “Allah Akbar” and he was about of the attack, according to public radio. The radio added that the police had found nothing suspicious on the body of the victim.

    FRENCH PARENTS

    The police, who announced the opening of an investigation, said the circumstances of the incident were not yet clear. “We look at the past of the officer who opened fire and motives” of the man killed by the keeper. “This is a very odd behavior,” said the spokesman Micky Rosenfeld police.

    “Well-known figure” of the Jewish Quarter of the Old City, according to his knowledge, the victim worked as a volunteer at a soup kitchen organized by the Chabad Hasidic movement. “He lives here alone, his parents are in France,” said David Dahan, without specifying whether it also has the French nationality.

    According to the private channel 10, witnesses assured that the guard had shot between seven and ten bullets, and that the shooting was unjustified, the target seemed to be a harmless eccentric with psychiatric problems. Citing witnesses, the Ynet website reported that there had been no warning shots or attempt to control, and the guard shot him directly in the chest.

    The rabbi of the Western Wall has expressed deep sorrow over the incident. “Whatever the circumstances, it is a tragedy,” he said. This wall is the most important of Judaism, the last vestige of the Second Temple, destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD Shrine. It is located beneath the Temple Mount, the third holiest site in Islam, making the site one of the most sensitive places in Jerusalem, with frequent clashes between Palestinians and Israeli security forces.

    Maariv Friday identified several cases of killings in recent months by members of private security companies in a country where the number of weapons in circulation is very important. “Three months ago, a security guard for 52 years has been accused of having shot and killed his wife [...] In the same month, there was another shocking incident in Haifa Bay (north) when…………

  436. You must be joking Technicolour. Days ago I was being called an old biddy by him and there were similar insults previously.

  437. Thanks Mary for the data on the Golan, and also the poor Muslim woman in Paris. Fact that the West seems to have found its new untermensch in Muslims, has never been so starkly evident. The poor woman is kicked in the stomach and her unborn infant murdered in the way of stopping the “Muslim infestation”. This is born by the fact that no one gives a shit about such a inhuman and barbaric conduct of the so called “civilised” Europeans, the mejdia is pretty much neutral about it all.

    Also address the ziofuckwits any which way you like, this notion of tolerating these crazy tweets is the stuff of the masochism, you don’t have to tolerate these tossers if you don’t wish to do so!

  438. Strange isn’t it that the leader of the English Defence League isn’t English but Irish. Stranger too that ‘Tommy Robinson’ isn’t his real name. Strange that the BBC didn’t think to ask why he uses a false name; stranger still that the EDL mostly carry Zionist ‘Star of David’ flags, the personal sign and seal of the Rothschild family, adopted as the flag of the Zionist terrorist’s religious supremacist failed state. It’s a funny old world as they say.

    I wonder if there are many membership overlaps between the armed forces or police officers and the EDL’s followers, as there were with the BNP membership, where also there were some intriguing overlaps too with middling trade union officialdom at factory shop/steward level and in cushy make-work jobs in major defence contractor sites dotted around the country.

  439. No. I’m not joking, Mary. I think either you could address the points or ignore them.

  440. Sorry, that sounds as though the points were all valid. I just think that addressing ‘the troll’, as you put it, is in danger of perpetuating a dynamic.

  441. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Jun, 2013 - 10:41 pm

    http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2013/06/19/podcast-show-112-nsa-whistleblower-goes-on-record-reveals-new-information-names-culprits/

    Here’s the transcript;

    “Tice: Okay. They went after — and I know this because I had my hands literally on the paperwork for these sort of things — they went after high-ranking military officers; they went after members of Congress, both Senate and the House, especially on the intelligence committees and on the armed services committees and some of the — and judicial. But they went after other ones, too. They went after lawyers and law firms. All kinds of–heaps of lawyers and law firms.

    They went after judges. One of the judges is now sitting on the Supreme Court that I had his wiretap information in my hand. Two are former FISA court judges.

    They went after State Department officials. They went after people in the executive service that were part of the White House–their own people. They went after antiwar groups.

    They went after U.S. international — U.S. companies that that do international business, you know, business around the world. They went after U.S. banking firms and financial firms that do international business.

    They went after NGOs that — like the Red Cross, people like that that go overseas and do humanitarian work. They went after a few antiwar civil rights groups.

    So, you know, don’t tell me that there’s no abuse, because I’ve had this stuff in my hand and looked at it…
    Interviewer: Now Russ, the targeting of the people that you just mentioned, top military leaders, members of Congress, intelligence community leaders and the — oh, I’m sorry, it was intelligence committees, let me correct that — not intelligence community, and then executive branch appointees. This creates the basis, and the potential for massive blackmail.

    Tice: Absolutely! And remember we talked about that before, that I was worried that the intelligence community now has sway over what is going on.

    Now here’s the big one. I haven’t given you any names. This was is summer of 2004. One of the papers that I held in my hand was to wiretap a bunch of numbers associated with, with a 40-something-year-old wannabe senator from Illinois. You wouldn’t happen to know where that guy lives right now, would you? It’s a big white house in Washington, DC. That’s who they went after. And that’s the president of the United States now.”

  442. Stranger too that ‘Tommy Robinson’ isn’t his real name.

    He explains that this is because of death threats.

    Strange that the BBC didn’t think to ask why he uses a false name;

    Yes, but covered on Andrew Neill’s show, of all places

    stranger still that the EDL mostly carry Zionist ‘Star of David’ flags,

    Certainly not ‘mostly’. – or proof please. See Vice piece on EDL in Walthamstow.

    the personal sign and seal of the Rothschild family, adopted as the flag of the Zionist terrorist’s religious supremacist failed state.

    Well? What?

    It’s a funny old world as they say.

    Hmmm.

  443. The state then, with its Friends is encouraging, protecting and probably financing these and dog knows how many other extremist groups of varied sorts, giving tacit backing for their agendas of hate and division: muslims today, who next I wonder. Straitened days too for the armed forces, that sinkhole of public funds, the chancellor seems to have spotted that the MoD has stealthily become one of the largest buy-to-let landlords in the country, but doesn’t seem too bothered at this racketeering and plundering of the defence budget, or its part in further fuelling of the explosive housing bubble. The last crash of 2008 it seems now was only a preliminary, mild in comparision to what must inevitably follow.

  444. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Jun, 2013 - 10:49 pm

    Did Dreoilin bow out of comments? I saw she said ‘gone’ or something. We want her back.

  445. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Jun, 2013 - 10:57 pm

    ” Mary. I think either you could address the points or ignore them.”

    To be fair Tech, I think that’s a false choice. When a comedian does stand-up it’s necessary to answer the hecklers. It’s a no-win for Mary, a win-win for the troll.

  446. Racism and Institutionalised Discrimination in zionistan:

    banks have a secret policy of rejecting Arab customers who try to transfer their accounts to a branch in a Jewish community, even though this violates banking regulations.

    .. mobile-phone photos of a young Arab woman surrounded by a mob of respectable-looking commuters amd shoppers while she waited for a train. As they hit her and pulled off her hijab, station guards looked on impassively.

    Segregation is enforced in all the main spheres of life: land allocation and housing, citizenship rights, education, and employment.

    Fighting Al Qaeda by Supporting Al Qaeda in Syria:

    An Al Qaeda affiliated organization, namely Syria’s Al Nusrah, is being supported “overtly” by the US President, rather than “covertly” by the CIA.

    ==========

    I wonder if there are many membership overlaps between the armed forces or police officers

    You bet the “craft” (masonic) has many facets, and it too is mostly concerned with keeping the nuts of certain tribe away from any roasting rods. The Irish catholic tommy Leader often dresses up as a bearded rabbi to give the slip to the fuzz/rosa/pigs/cops/bobbies (how would a Catholic know, how to dress up as a rabbi if it were not for his ziofuckwit mentors?) Also this bunch of useful idiots masquerading as the defenders of all things Engerland often go on counter demonstration to the boycott and divest campaigns demonstrations against the ziofuckwit business outfits (ahava etc.), along side the ziofuckwit branch of the Engerland defending warrior master race.

    This geller character runs a blog (atlas shrugs, which incidentally is not taken off and or shut-down), that makes KKK look a reasonable centre left bunch of “liberals”, yet she is not considered a hate monger by the St Theresa of May, although Louis Farrakhan is, and denied an entry visa to UK.

  447. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Jun, 2013 - 11:14 pm

    “Lambert was deployed by the special demonstration squad (SDS) – a top-secret Metropolitan police unit that targeted political activists between 1968 until 2008, when it was disbanded. He co-wrote the defamatory six-page leaflet in 1986 – and his role in its production has been the subject of an internal Scotland Yard investigation for several months.

    At no stage during the civil legal proceedings brought by McDonald’s in the 1990s was it disclosed that a police infiltrator helped author the leaflet.”

    If you eat Big Macs, you need to read this. I’m tired of purveyors of salt, fat and sugar exploiting the weakness of the public. (I have to admit, I eat this food, but I must stop)

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/21/mclibel-leaflet-police-bob-lambert-mcdonalds

  448. Fred @ 8.55 p.m. “Guilty as hell”. Of what? I would be interested to see the research you did on al Megrahi. Did you for example question why the FBI handled an inquiry of an event on Scottish soil? Did you find out anything in your research about who was on board that might have been a target? Have you heard of Bernt Carlsson? Have you even seen the film “Blood Diamond” with Leonardo Di Capprio starring? Why has no investigation of South Africa and the United States taken place? Obviously United States leads are not going to be investigated by the FBI. However, there are 270 families, some of whom might have put their grief behind them, but others who want to know the truth. Is it not in their collective interest to have a thorough non-partisan investigation into the real people guilty of this heinous crime? By the way Fred, you haven’t by any chance inserted a letter ‘r’ into your name have you?

  449. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Jun, 2013 - 11:32 pm

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-charges-snowden-with-espionage/2013/06/21/507497d8-dab1-11e2-a016-92547bf094cc_story.html

    “The complaint was filed in the Eastern District of Virginia, a jurisdiction where Snowden’s former employer, Booz Allen Hamilton, is headquartered, and a district with a long track record in prosecuting cases with national security implications.”

    Virginia farmboys, aside…

  450. Ben, agreed. And come back, Dreoilin! But Mary, if you ignored the person you call troll altogether, everyone would understand. And yet if you engaged with the few things you do find interesting, everyone would be fine with that too. I think, Habbakuk, since we’re talking about you, that you’ve rather exhausted your ‘picking up on Mary’ line with everyone, did some time ago. Never thought I’d say this, but unless you can post – say – ten posts which don’t mention Mary, in a row, I’m up for a ban too. Not because I agree with Mary necessarily, but because I’m very bored. It’s not fair on this otherwise rather interesting board.

  451. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 12:33 am

    @ Technicolour:

    Ok, so ask yourself if you’re perfectly happy with Mary’s posts at 16h10 (assault in Argenteuil) and 18h42 (EDL and the BBC) – and with her ‘response’ to my comments on those posts.

    Are you satisfied that they add to the sum of knowledge on anything in particular? Does their tone strike you as appropriate?
    _________

    Rather than asking me to post ten times in a row without mentioning Mary, you might do better to ask Mary to stay on topic for ten posts in a row or to engage in a discussion for ten posts in a row or even to answer ten questions in a row.

  452. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 12:38 am

    And if you’re “bored” why don’t you just do as others have advised and scroll straight past me? Surely it would only need a little bit of will-power and bingo, no more boredom! :)
    ___________

    Of course, the reasons you and others don’t is that you are all well aware that all of my comments and questions are perfectly valid and that you are unable to refute me. Which of course is what annoys you so much.

  453. bored, not annoyed. try ten in a row without mentioning mary. what harm will it do? (rhetorical question)

  454. Start from now.

  455. @John Goss

    He as undoubtedly working for the Libyan intelligence services who were no more saints than any of the other intelligence services. I don’t believe they picked his name out of a hat.

    The bombing had nothing to do with targeting anyone. The bomb was planted by a Palestinian group in exchange for money. Iran paid them to bring down an American plane as revenge for America shooting down an Iranian airliner.

  456. karel (a conspiracy a day keeps idiocy away)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 1:01 am

    Fred,

    it is funny what you say as after an extensive research I have become convinced now that you must have planted the bomb as you seem to be quite familiar with the whereabouts. Are you a palestinian by any chance??

  457. “Stop the War coalition protesting outside US embassy against arming Syrian rebs. No mention yet of STW demo at Russian embassy. Wonder why?”

    Oh for fuck sake. If the journalist doesn’t know the answer he’s a fucking idiot. Here’s the answer: the US sets UK foreign policy, and the Russians do not. Hence the demo outside the US Embassy, not the Russian one. Michael White is a tool, but pretending to be an idiot really isn’t a good look.

    And I am officially gobsmacked at today’s revelations in The Guardian. Yes yes I sort of knew this was going on, but to have it confirmed is quite something. And, worse, to have all sorts of politicians defend this spying is almost unbelievable. They really do have no shame, do they? And I note there was a clause inserted into RIPA that allowed this. It was inserted in 2000 – Tony Blair again.

  458. Libya under Gadaffi was probably the closest any country had ever come to a practical realisation of the theory of democracy, even to the extent that any Libyan unannounced could come and address the parliament and the equal participation of both sexes in determining policy, long before anywhere else. I would say that its intelligence services had the job of protecting to the best their abilities something worthwhile there and could do so with admirable principles uppermost and clear consciences. The ‘evidence’ that Libya was behind nightclub bombings, which the US (with British help, thanks Mrs T) used as justification for bombing Libya in the mid-80s was based on manufactured evidence -intercepts of a group of Israeli run radio transmitters, ostensibly operated by Libyan agents in Europe, as the story goes, communicating back and forth to Libya, which the US knew to be completely bogus and knew just who was really behind and operating them. It follows that the bombings themselves were false flag events, to justify the US bombing of Libya, as the Israeli run transmitters, in their amateurish nature were so transparently faked as Libyan as could not and did not fool anyone.

  459. Flaming June

    22 Jun, 2013 - 6:16 am

    Edward Snowden is now being pursued for ‘espionage and theft of government property’ and his extradition from Hong Kong is sought. It’s such a shame that the evil PTB are unsure if he is still in Hong Kong.

    NSA leaks: US charges Edward Snowden with spying
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23012317#

    Meanwhile GCHQ’s ‘Temopora’ is stealing 600 million of our communications daily. Should we charge HMG with ‘espionage and theft’. Irony is dead.

    GCHQ taps fibre-optic cables for secret access to world’s communications

    Exclusive: British spy agency collects and stores vast quantities of global email messages, Facebook posts, internet histories and calls, and shares them with NSA, latest documents from Edward Snowden reveal
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/21/gchq-cables-secret-world-communications-nsa

  460. Flaming June

    22 Jun, 2013 - 6:24 am

    That s/be Tempora.

    Mastering the internet: how GCHQ set out to spy on the world wide web

    Project Tempora – the evolution of a secret programme to capture vast amounts of web and phone data

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/21/gchq-mastering-the-internet

    Was some joke intended in the choice of the name?
    ‘Oh What times! Oh What customs!
    This sentence is now used as an exclamation to criticize present-day attitudes and trends, often jokingly or ironically.’

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_tempora_o_mores!

  461. Flaming June

    22 Jun, 2013 - 6:33 am

    Three cheers for Clare Daly. Must listen. On the Obama visit to Ireland. She calls him a war criminal. Can you see Bercow allowing similar in our ‘House of Commons’?

    http://xrepublic.tv/node/3893

    Here is the smooth Enda Kenny with the aforementioned war criminal.
    http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Barack_Obama_and_Enda_Kenny_at_Farmleigh.jpg

  462. Flaming June

    22 Jun, 2013 - 7:04 am

    Acronyms by the dozen here. TIPS, TALON, TIAP, TTIC….

    The Mad Men are truly with us.

    Your Friendly Neighborhood Totalitarian State
    by Walter Brasch / June 21st, 2013
    http://dissidentvoice.org/2013/06/your-friendly-neighborhood-totalitarian-state/

  463. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 8:53 am

    “Libya under Gadaffi was probably the closest any country had ever come to a practical realisation of the theory of democracy, even to the extent that any Libyan unannounced could come and address the parliament”
    ____________

    Is one permitted to doubt the validity (perhaps even the sanity) of this assertion?

    It ranks alongside the assertion of the time that the Soviet Union was a workers’ paradise and that the 1936 Soviet constitution was the most perfect constitution ever.

    I wonder, en passant, what were the (real, as opposed to on paper) powers of that Libyan parliament which any Libyan citizen was so free to address directly? How was it elected/appointed?

    Faugh!

  464. I’ve heard it all now. Some asinine talking head on the radio just now, defending the latest GCHQ snooping revelation by saying most people would be pleased to learn that GCHQ has this capability and that they are, in this respect, a world leader.

    FFS!

  465. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 9:06 am

    @ Technicolour:

    You haven’t really addressed my point(s) and answered my question(s), have you. That’s your right, of course, but it does suggest, once again, that you have no answers.

    PS – it is now 09h00 BST and Mary has already posted four times (including one link to the BBC and two to the Guardian). If she carries on at this rate she’ll be a wreck before the day’s out (and so will we).

  466. Fred, I am still waiting for your extensive research. This is Gareth Peirce, described by John Pilger as England’s greatest human rights’ lawyer. She is certainly one of the greatest but I put Clive Stafford Smith in the same category. This is what Gareth Peirce had to say in 2010 two years before al Megrahi died and David Cameron refused to hold an inquiry into the real perpetrators (backed by Ed Miliband).

    “Equivocation and uncertainty are not enough. Even if the science that convicted al-Megrahi had not offended against every minimum standard, then the second pillar of the prosecution case, his identification by Tony Gauci, the Maltese shopkeeper, would remain spectacular in its noncompliance with any safeguard. He described al-Megrahi as ‘6’0’’’ (he was 5’8’’), ‘50 years old’ (he was 37), and ‘hefty’; said that he ‘had been to the shop before and after’, ‘had been there only once’; that he ‘saw him in a bar months later’; that he ‘will sign statement even though I don’t speak English’; that al-Megrahi ‘was similar but not identical’, ‘perhaps like him but not fully like him’, and, fatally for any identification of al-Megrahi in the first place, that he was ‘like the man in the Sunday Times’ (in other words, like Abu Talb, whose picture Gauci had initially identified). But Gauci’s evidence was needed and, reports suggest, handsomely rewarded. He apparently now lives in Australia, supported by millions of US dollars.”

    If you read the whole article it should add something to your knowledge because John Ashton has written a biography about the innocence of al Megrahi, but I should like to know what evidence you have that he was guilty of some crime(s) or other.

    http://www.lrb.co.uk/v31/n18/gareth-peirce/the-framing-of-al-megrahi

  467. Billy fourteen pints, plays Casandra and warns Scotland:

    A separate Scotland’s citizens would not have the “comfort” of their government possessing an extensive network of embassies to help them abroad or experienced intelligence and security services to protect their safety at home,

    ….. an independent Scotland would face resistance in its efforts to join the EU on favourable terms from countries with their own separatist movements, such as Spain.

    Then Billy fourteen pints tries to awaken the passion of the Unionist freds, green freds, even catholic freds, and freds all around:

    the British have to “confront” the fact some of this power would ebb away if Scotland decided to separate, while Scotland would lose its seat on the “top table” of international institutions.

    …. hinder ……improve trade, tackle global poverty and pursue specific campaigns such as the UK’s ongoing efforts to prevent mass rapes in wars, he said.

    Looks like if Scotland goes independent, their hens won’t lay eggs, cows won’t give milk, their sporrans will run empty, and their butt naked bollocks will freeze in the cold winds of independence blowing from the arctic and Iceland leaving Scots staring at their tadgers on the cold cobbles of an independent Scotland!

    Alas poor Billy! et too Bitter*?

    * This is a non brand statement, therefore the generic term Bitter is used!

  468. United States of Surveillance

    http://vimeo.com/fiorecartoons/united-states-of-surveillance

    PS We never had ‘on topic’ or ‘off topic’ police on this blog until recent times or persistent trolling.

  469. In Dreolin’s absence, which i’m confident won’t be too long, its worth recapping a couple of her comments for context to the discussions that took place last midnight:

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/06/work-for-the-un/comment-page-2/#comment-413731

    and

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/06/work-for-the-un/#comment-413411

    Please note the lack of cut n paste of the whole comments in order to economise on space and not fling this into people’s face who may understandably not be interested.

  470. AN OBSERVATION:

    Cease and desist from character assassinations.

    Set up you own blog and then start passing comments about others.

    ~~~~~~~

    Ben, agreed. And come back, Dreoilin!

    There is no valet parking for zimmer frames around here, unless you wish to volunteer?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I’ve heard it all now. Some asinine talking head on the radio just now, defending the latest GCHQ snooping revelation by saying most people would be pleased to learn that GCHQ has this capability and that they are, in this respect, a world leader.

    At least we are good at something, and that is what matters, so far as these food wasters are concerned. As it stands there is sweet FA that we can claim to be good at, so we aer better than STASI,KGB, ABC, and the rest of the alphabet in spying the heck out of our citizens! Stop being so curmudgeonly and celebrate our new Best that we have achieved!!

    ~~~~~~~~

    John Ashton has written a biography about the innocence of al Megrahi, but I should like to know what evidence you have that he was guilty of some crime(s) or other.

    He is guilty, guilty, guilty! what more proof do you want than a feeling in his water?

    Megrahi (innocent or not) was part of the penance Ghaddafi’s pay for his atonement, along with the two billion dollars to grease the palms of anyone that cared to lay a claim on the free money made available by the now departed colonel. Other than the LSE which was vilified for taking money from his son.

  471. @John Goss

    Please leave out the strawmen, I have not used the word “extensive”.

    I think it has been established that the witness you refer to and his brother were paid for his testimony by America, I don’t think even the American government are denying it any more.

    The appeal would also have had the testimony of a Scottish Assistant Chief Constable that he planted crucial evidence for the CIA and testimony from an employee of the Swiss firm who made the timing device that the remains of a printed circuit board shown in evidence had been supplied to the CIA by him.

    There is no mystery about what happened, in July 1988 America shot down an Iranian airliner and in December 1988 Iran got their revenge. What needs to be established is the role of the British government and Scottish legal system in the stitch up.

    There are no good guys, no white hats, not Libya not Iran not Palestine, not the USA not Britain and not Scotland. There are no bad countries, just bad people and there were bad people playing the same bad game in every country.

  472. “Megrahi (innocent or not) was part of the penance Ghaddafi’s pay for his atonement, along with the two billion dollars to grease the palms of anyone that cared to lay a claim on the free money made available by the now departed colonel. Other than the LSE which was vilified for taking money from his son.”

    Ghaddafi didn’t actually pay the compensation himself, he passed the bill on to the American oil companies operating in Libya and told them to cough up or lose their licenses.

    Neat, aint it.

  473. Hi all. Can I ask people to keep discussion as to whether a comment is on-topic or not to a minimum? The guidelines here for several years has been that comments at the start of the thread really ought to be directly related to the blog post, and then things drift to current affairs and occasional small asides as the thread lengthens.

    I suggest that if a particular poster’s contribution annoys, then just simply do not engage with that person. It is everyone’s right to interact with whoever they wish.

  474. Ghaddafi didn’t actually pay the compensation himself, he passed the bill on to the American oil companies operating in Libya and told them to cough up or lose their licenses.

    ROFL!

    An interesting concept, the oil companies turning out to be such a benevolent benefactors to aid Ghaddafi by paying his fines for him. this line of thought verily claims the oil for free, and the elegant consequence of it would be for the oil companies to get a payment for taking the oil out of the ground and getting it away! That filthy stuff is bad for the planet, bad for the people, and is a toxic waste that has to be manged by the efficient waste management techniques of the oil companies!

    Now that is a novel way of dealing with the johnny foreigner, no beads, mirrors, and fire water, and instead expecting some kind of payment for taking away their wares/chattel/land/oil/organs.

    I cannot write for laughing, thanks for the laughs, I really needed this laugh.

  475. Nevermind 21 Jun, 2013 – 9:55 am
    “… and I expect us to enter a period of anarchy in all its forms.”

    We can dream. A beautiful future born from a proud tradition where, having recognised that power corrupts, we have dismantled the mechanisms that allow corruption and repression. A world where we each take responsibility for our lives and do not invite a mental minority to divide and rule us. No ceos nor ministers! No royalty nor rock stars! Just us in a world of respect and cooperation. Beautiful!

    We can dream of such a future. As I get older I increasingly think it’s our only hope of survival as a species. Personally I wouldn’t want me ruling anything. Nor you. Yes we can dream. In the meantime we could collectivise workplaces and question all authority. Which is what I’m off to do after I’ve walked the dog.

  476. Just cannot believe how this thread has deteriorated into mindless anarchy where anything and everyone is discussed in a completely chaotic fashion. Outdoes the al-Nilli ones in just a few pages.

    Having tried to get a line on Edward Snowden’s spying – what the thread’s topic illustrated – and connecting it to the Michael Hastings murder – what reminds me so much of Jorg Haider’s murder by the Mossad, my posts have been on topic.

    Instead other posters have engaged in all kinds of character assassination. including me, other covert assassinations which don’t have any relationship to Hastings’, and pure convenient escapism, just to mention a few diversions.

    I am leaving, and will only return if the following events occur: HK is actually asked to hand over Snowden, China offers him asylum, he somehow gets to Iceland, and Hastings’ assassination is discussed as a covert improvement on the Haider one where no fire occurred after the uncontrollable VW hit a wall at incredibly high speed.

  477. Flaming June

    22 Jun, 2013 - 1:15 pm

    The BBC hierarchy.

    Simon Waldman, morning editor BBC News Channel was on Newswatch this morning, a TV programme. He was justifying breaking into Obomber’s speech in Belfast with live coverage of the DoE leaving hospital.

    During the conversation with Samira Ahmed, it was revealed that the BBC had 48‘journalists’ covering the G8. Anazing.

    Waldman writes on the Editors’ Blog and this comes from his entry on 9/11, such a dramatic day although he leaves out the part where the BBC presenter reported the collapse of WTC7 before it actually happened!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/blogcollegeofjournalism/posts/my_911_when_the_first_tower_co

    ‘The impact of that September afternoon, particularly on those caught up in the attacks and the families and friends of the victims, cannot be underestimated. The world changed radically that day. I think the BBC newsroom changed too. We began with what seemed to be a potentially interesting ‘picture’ story. We went rapidly through a kaleidoscope of reaction and emotion – fascination, incomprehension, disbelief, dawning realisation, numbing horror.

    We were dealing with terrorism on a so-far unimaginable scale, and yet the newsroom team simply got on with the job. For many, it was only later – that night, or even days afterwards – that the scale of what had happened began to hit home.’

    He is certainly correct that the world changed drastically that day. It was the start of the ‘War on Terror’, now ongoing for 12 years into an never ending future.

    ~~

    I was wondering whether he is related to the late Ronnie Waldman who was a big name in earlier days at the BBC. If so, it’s more of the BBC incestuous nepotism.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronnie_Waldman

  478. Guano, there is an island off North Berwick that is covered in guano. North Berwick is where Robert Louis Stevenson used to go for summer holidays as a child. It is thought that another of the small islands off the East Lothian coast was the inspiration for ‘Treasure Island’.

    Please convey my regards to Long John Silver (and his parrot, which survived to the age of 101 and which, I am told by those who know, was able to recite the Odyssey backwards in six languages).

    ************

    As Jon I think suggests, to some extent, creative digression is one means of broadening the muscles of the mind. It does not impede us seeking truth, quite the opposite. I agree with Trowbridge, though, wrt personal attacks on other posters. Life’s too short.

  479. As to the suspicion that the G* attendees and indeed the Bilderburgers were electronically surveilled by the UKs elite spy agencies and eavesdroppers, in their multi-party formal discussions and in their private asides, round the clock, the answer is quite obviously an emphatic yes. That the masters of the universe are scrutinised in their communciations, in their every waking and sleeping moment is as assured as that many of us proles are or cna be too, in uninvasive ways, on the flimsiest pretexts or on none at all but simply caught in a vast collection net, for later misinterpretation and misuse. Peter Wright in his dull as ditchwater Spycatcher book described a large international conference, on which matters I cannot recall, in the early 70s, with heads of state and government from a myriad of nations, taking place in a building called Lancaster House, after its extensive ‘refurbishment’, Wright assured us that their wasn’t a square foot of the building, from bedroooms, to conference halls, to restaurants, to the extensive grounds, that wasn’t wired for sound. With newer technology today and infinite storage capability, improvements in audio electronics and of course video, such as the ability to refine and polish the end of a single hair-like microscopic glass fibre, to form a lens, there can be no doubt the capabilities are now beyond imagination. From Cameron gargling and pulling faces in the mirror in the morning and Miliband practising ‘sincerity’, to the clink of Ken Clarke’s secreted whisky bottles, Boris’s bonking and infinitely darker doings, there can be no secrets and no hiding place, and it’s a terrible state that we are in.

    As I type this the hoover is idly chewing the carpet, taps are running and splashing, the tin-foil lined hood of my ‘Lord Anthony’ parka is zipped up fully with the nylon fur tickling my nose and still I have doubts –that seagull, is it the same one I saw yesterday?

  480. Hey, great news, NATO allies! We Americans are making great progress in America’s MRAP abandonment-and-demolition initiative for America’s triumphant victory rout in liberated Afghanistan.
    http://www.3ad.org/images/533mi_images/Highway%20%20of%20Death1.jpg
    Coming along nicely!

  481. Just to goad and make the ire of the monotonous routine of the moanings about the change of subject;

    The world we are living in, has become more Hobbsian world of “survival of the cheats”, where there is no longer any joy to be found in the journey and only the destination and getting there matters, never mind how the culprits got there.

    Mother Arrested for Taking English Exam On Behalf of Daughter

    Before anyone jumps into Muslim bashing and proclaiming the “Burka/hijab” must be banned, and women liberated and all that malarkey. The woman in question was wearing; was dressed in Converse boots and low-waist skinny jeans and wore thick makeup.

    Probably her stretch marks gave the game away (I have deployed a Kevlar screen protection, so females do your worst)!!

    Not withstanding the above a seventy two year old man has been jailed for cheating in a fishing competition:

    … isn’t Mead’s first suspicious fish rodeo. He’s been convicted of two other fish-related charges since 2009: fishing over the limit and fishing with illegal hooks. But he’ll have some time to think on his crimes; he’s lost his hunting and fishing license for two years in a radius around Bemidji County, and he’s banned from any fishing contests for four years. That’s what you get when you’re angling for trouble.

    Oh the power of mob rule:

    . As Mead was being escorted off the ice by Hubbard County police, the crowd shouted, “Cheater! Cheater!”

  482. NSA whistleblower Russ Tice joins us for an eyeopening hour-long interview on the real extent of the NSA spying scandal. Beyond PRISM and beyond metadata, we explore the facts of NSA spying: that every electronic communication is being copied and stored by the US government. We talk about the political implications of this information, including the almost limitless power for blackmailing that this power gives those in charge of the wiretapping. Tice also names names on who has been targeted by these wiretaps. Please also see the recent BoilingFrogsPost interview with Tice on this same subject.

    http://www.corbettreport.com/interview-685-russ-tice-reveals-the-truth-about-nsa-spying/

  483. I haven’t updated myself as far as here. I just popped in to say that I’ll be back eventually. Too much of anything gets tiresome and this place had become tiresome to me. So I’m having a break.

    In the meantime, I hope Craig got some relief for his heel.

    Beannacht

  484. Sofia Zabolotna-Habbercake

    22 Jun, 2013 - 2:55 pm

    Suhayl, Trowbridge, Jon, Technicolour and others. You will know who you are.

    I’ve been thinking and observing your comments recently and I have to admit …” personal attacks on other posters. Life’s too short…”

    Isn’t it the false narratives and constant propaganda that needs to be challenged and dismantled, rather than the individuals who peddle them?

    I know I find it hard resist taking the piss, and I’ve justified it to myself with the rational that, like rooks mobbing a hawk, it alerts the rookery and keeps the predator occupied. And I have to admit, it has given me pleasure to get up the noses of, and keep occupied, those who I think are distracting or bullying. But I do trust that this rookery is bright enough to see what’s going on anyway and the flow of interesting information and debate seems to go on anyhow.

    So, at the end of the day, I realise I have just become another kind of troll myself.
    I’m going to try leaving Dad and certain others in peace and concentrate on seeking clarity and looking for ways out of the mess that their doctrines have us in.

    Maybe for Winter Solstice or the New Year I’ll let off some steam, but you never know, I might have become a grown-up myself by then.

    Thanks to all who have been so tolerant of my rantings.

  485. Trowbridge, the conditions which you stipulate need to be satisfied before you will return strike me as utterly unachievable.

    You will return if:

    HK is actually asked to hand over Snowden.
    China offers him asylum.
    He somehow gets to Iceland.
    Hastings’ assassination is discussed as a covert improvement on the Haider one where no fire occurred after the uncontrollable VW hit a wall at incredibly high speed.

    I like reading your posts, don’t you think you could soften these conditions a bit, thereby allowing you to return without loss of face?

    Don’t worry about the off topic posts, they are all part of the fun. It’s like going to the pub. We talk seriously for a while and then by page 3 we chew the fat about stuff in general. You like going to the pub don’t you?

  486. Dreoilin, the Queen of Irish Light, again has done a ‘Fu Manchu’: “I will return… !”

    King of Welsh Darkness, no doubt Trowbridge, unlike Fu Macnhu, will return only if Nigella (Lawson, whose sister-in-law’s brother allegedly was an SIS officer) admits that all along she has been a clever GI-Op (gastrointestinal operation, also known in the trade as a ‘jobby-op’) who has been inducing us all to consume more and more fat while imagining carnal congress and thus to clog our thinking processes beyond repair.

    Willy Wonka arguably falls into the same category. Unless Willy admits that he is working for the gastronomic-industrial complex, I absolutely refuse to eat my hat!

  487. “Fu Macnhu” – the Hebridean Gaelic version of ‘Fu Manchu’.

  488. Of course, you win, as I shall return if you talk about the murder of Princess Diana in the Mercedes W140 where no fireball occurred in conditions where one was more likely if it could.

    Chalk up another one for Mossad. It hated her.

  489. Or else, might it have been the Increment, with a strobe light, a motorbike and a follow-up car? And falsified blood results? I’ve met establishment people who privately believe – though they do not know, cannot be certain – that Princess Diana was assassinated by those who see themselves as appointed by history to act on behalf of the institution of British Royalty. Who knows?

  490. On the basis (at root) of,

    “Ye canne hae a woag in the Hoose ae Cairds…”

    That might have been what tipped it, on top of the years of loose cannon-balls. Oh yes, there are high-up people in this country who would kill for that – for much less.

  491. Isn’t it strange they call themselves the Friends of Syria when the real friends aren’t members of the group at all?

    Habby, before you say it, i know Assad is no angel, but is it really worth upsetting the whole secular apple-cart? Difficult one to navigate but i think even in this horrible nation-state paradigm humanity lives in, sovereignty needs to be upheld.

  492. “Fu Macnhu” – the Hebridean Gaelic version of ‘Fu Manchu’.

    Now that I had to read twice and then laugh.

    ===========

    Of course, you win, as I shall return if you talk about the murder of Princess Diana in the Mercedes W140 where no fireball occurred in conditions where one was more likely if it could.

    The lady concerned was pretty much at logger heads with the respective in-laws, whom had entered into correspondence by addressing her a “diseased whore”. Do you contend the contract was put out to tender, and the lowest tender won? Or was it a favour that was called upon?

  493. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 4:15 pm

    Trowbridge; codshit has but a handful of articles on Diana, and seem to be media reprints for the most part.

    Not a single one from you young man :)

  494. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 4:16 pm

    She had enemies from within and without. Spending time with muslim men put the Queen off.

  495. Sofia: “So, at the end of the day, I realise I have just become another kind of troll myself.”

    If you use those meaningless cliche’s “at the end of the day”, you’re no daughter of Habbakuk. At any rate, regards your confession ” I have just become…” etc , weren’t you born here for that chosen purpose in the first place, Ms Habbercake?

    Btw how’s Kibo Noh doing?

    ” I’m going to try leaving….”

    Or is this supposed to be Sofia’s long goodbye, only to return as Kibo? Interesting though as it is that, in your opening line: “Suhayl, Trowbridge, Jon, Technicolour and others. You will know who you are.”, Kibo Noh’s name is conspicuous by its absence.

    While i was earlier predicting that one will fall away which so far it has, now i’m predicting that both will be gone, of course only with a new alias, at the end of the day. :-)

  496. @suhayl

    “Who knows?”

    The fundamentally scary thing is that we would not discount the possibility. It’s not the truth of the proposition that is frightening, it’s that gloomily acknowledged plausibility.

  497. Dreoilin
    22 Jun, 2013 – 2:52 pm
    ‘I haven’t updated myself as far as here. I just popped in to say that I’ll be back eventually. Too much of anything gets tiresome and this place had become tiresome to me. So I’m having a break.”

    Dreolin too true, the place had become too tiresome — may be a little fresher now. Had Craig been reading the comments here he might, poor chap, have developed a pain in the other heel. Hope not and wish him well!

    Even poor Technicolour was writing comments last night that she couldn’t believe for herself, of course, as well meant as always.

    Thank you for your catalysing role though in bringing sanity back and wish you endless Universal energy.

  498. Villager, Sovereignty is about to get a boost, that’s the part of the problem. A window is closing and the US permanent government wants to sneak through it in time. From the Rome Statute definition of aggression, Article 8 bis clause 2g, recently accepted by NATO linchpin Germany, aggression is also… “The sending by or on behalf of a State of armed bands, groups, irregulars or mercenaries, which carry out acts of armed force against another State of such gravity as to amount to the acts listed above, or its substantial involvement therein.”

    The prospect of US aggression in Iraq triggered a rush of accessions to the Rome Statute. If, when 8 bis enters into force, the US is still sending armed bands into the Mideast and violating Pakistan’s sovereignty with armed attacks against the civilian population, career planning gets trickier for aspiring elder statesmen like Obama and his CIA handler Ben Rhodes. No foreign Bilderberg holidays.

  499. Flaming June

    22 Jun, 2013 - 5:11 pm

    Brave men, Julian Assange and Edward Snowden.

    “Government secrecy has been expanding on a terrific scale. Simultaneously, human privacy has been secretly eradicated … The U.S. government is spying on each and every one of us, but it is Edward Snowden who is charged with espionage for tipping us off.”

    WikiLeaks’ Assange urges support for Snowden, slams Obama ‘betrayal’
    By Laura Smith-Spark, CNN

    June 22, 2013 — Updated 1513 GMT (2313 HKT)

    London (CNN) — WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange urged the world Saturday to “stand with” Edward Snowden, the man who admitted leaking top-secret details about U.S. surveillance programs, according to the text of a speech posted on Twitter.

    As he appealed for a “brave country” to step forward and offer Snowden asylum, Assange also accused U.S. President Barack Obama of betraying a generation of “young, technically minded people.”

    Assange was scheduled to speak from the balcony of the Ecuadorian Embassy in London on Saturday, but the appearance was postponed at short notice “due to a security situation,” WikiLeaks said on Twitter.

    Wednesday marked a year since Assange sought refuge in the embassy to avoid extradition to Sweden, where he is wanted for questioning over allegations that he raped one woman and sexually molested another.

    /..
    http://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/22/world/europe/uk-wikileaks-assange/?hpt=hp_t1

  500. Since SS, you are on my site radar, I shall respond.

    There are all kinds of theories about her murder – and that is quite clear – the only likely one she had was about Charles having it in for her, and in my theory, the Mossad was only doing the dirty work with the Benz, etc.

    It all illustrates thinking that the wrong people are out to get you, making it most helpful for the real people who want you done in, do it.

    Remember Hastings thought that the Bureau – which is quite happy to get rid of its own troublemakers, like agent Steve Ivens – was out to kill him when, at best, it was only setting him up for the Mossad.

    This way Israel got rid of the strongest supporter, Di, of the Occupied Territories, and Charles got rid of what he thought was his biggest obstacle to becoming king.

    Just shows what conspiracies can achieve, along with unexpected consequences or results.

  501. You, Ben, are certainly on my site radar.

    I think that codshit, like me, has not paid attention to the fact that Di was murdered.

    i think that the Harrods connection put us off, and we never even suspected that the car’s driving computers had been taken over by the Mossad.

    It was all the drinking, especially by the driver. that did it.

    And killing neo.-Nazi Jorg Haider seemed like a one-off by the Mossad that we couldn’t get too excited about.

    Killing not onlt Hastings but also Di will certainly get a new effort by me, and be posted somewhere.

  502. Trolls don’t bother me and off topic I like.

    Flouncers I find irritating.

  503. Krupp, thank you for that valuable and sharp insight. Its amazing how quickly ‘actions’ can be put into place when paperwork can take years to negotiate through.

    Btw, one doesn’t see China being very vocal at all on Syria. Where do they stand on this stark reality?

  504. John Kerry accuses Assad of “internationalising” the war! These guys are lying fucking warmongers, there’s no other way to put it. Who’s been funding and arming the heart-eating animals al Nusra? Is Kerry on the same fucking planet as the rest of us?

    The UN say there’s no way of telling who has used chemical weapons. Not a word of that on the BBC. Turn the thing off. Shun the liars.

  505. Sofia Zabolotna-Habbercake

    22 Jun, 2013 - 6:06 pm

    @Villager. 4 38pm

    WTF?

    Sofia’s still lodged well up your nose?

    She popped into being with the chosen purpose of distracting Habba in his relentless bullying of Mary. That was it.

    She soon noticed that, though she was, by her own admission a fictional 13 and a half year old girl, she clearly got under the skin of these individuals, as some of your very unkrishnamurtian insults testify. So she felt she served a purpose. While time was spent targeting her, (she’s an angry, hormone-plagued girl who doesn’t give a shit what hypocritical grown-ups think of her), the real contributers could be left in peace to scurry through cyber-space collecting interesting links and facts.

    But once she’d got found a channeller she wouldn’t shut up and soon enough she had broadened her horizons and was winding up others who she felt had a more subtle, but equally distracting, intention.

    From the start she has kept the name-calling on the soft end of the spectrum, unless you think “old fool” and “plonker” are genuinely offensive. She was gratified to see what a venoumous and hysterical array of insults were returned, from yourself and others.
    She also quickly noticed that things as harmless as a badly-spelt word or grammatical error would often evoke howls of indignant protest. She still finds that really funny.

    Her only real regret is that, on occasion, she accidentally upset the very people she felt she was writing her stuff for. For that she’s sorry.

    You seem to have quite an obsession with Kibo, who is clearly sometimes is moved by similar feelings.

    She/he wasn’t the only poster covered by the blanket of “you know who you are.” There are just too many bright and compassionate posters on these threads for her to list. They all make her think. She appreciates them all.

    So “at the end of the day” she thinks the rambling, anarchic and wonderful comment threads of Craig Murray’s blogs provide both great insight and occasional entertainment, which, to have real effect will hopefully percolate out into a myriad of world-changing conversations.

    She didn’t intend any kind of goodbye. She was just saying she’d done some thinking and decided that it was delusional narratives rather than their promoters that she would try to address. How long she’ll manage to that is anyone’s guess.

  506. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 6:10 pm

    Hows the weather over there?

    http://www.sat24.com/?culture=en

  507. @ Phil, thanks, you could not have described anarchy any more beautiful than you have. Thinking for oneself is seen as dangerous, if you want to eat healthy food, care about sustainable cycles, community projects promoting alternative energies, or the democratic deficit and personal privacy, then you are suspicious, a troublemaker.

    The NSA story is running away, they can’t shut it down, despite D notices, people are now clued up, but they are not sussed enough to encrypt their emails, but with increasing persecution of whistle-blowers, calling them spies and terrorists, when they merely point out the state of control we are subjected to already, people will eventually loose trust in official reasoning as they can only see knee jerk officialdom and book throwing from our authorities.

    So the virulent reactions are counter productive and this counter productivity is mushrooming perpetually with every new information flow that leaks from their data orifice, we have been had and we know it, so encryption is not far away,imho.

  508. Flouncer Gordon Thomas threw me off, Ben about the Mossad’s murder of Princess Diana when he wrote in Gideon’s Spies that it had tried to recruit driver Henri Paul to kill her, and that he refused.

    Little did I realize that this disinformation was to give the Mossad a cover for the mission which it carried out by taking over the driving computers, and killing not only Di but also fall guy driver in the process.

  509. China got to sign the UN Charter first, as the first victim of aggression by an Axis power, and it appreciates that distinction. China invoked the UN Charter over the Daiyou Islands but in the case of Syria, China seems to be sticking to non-legal language like ‘tensions.’ In fact, China has kept Syria out of ICC’s investigative purview. They seem leery of the Libyan precedent under Moreno-Ocampo. They may well feel that ICC is not ready for prime time.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/un-human-rights-commissioner-navi-pillay-pretext-maker-for-western-military-aggression/5323569

  510. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 6:27 pm

    The reason Snowden chose China is the extradition treaty is incomplete and excludes political matters. The US made a mistake not indicting him for criminal violations, so there you have it.

  511. So why all the hype by Snowden, and the Incompence by America’s security state?

    Seems that Snowden went to HK, knowing that the Chinese would be obliged to let him stay there while fanning the flames about the USA’s willingness and ability to get him when, in fact, it made sure that there is no way in hell of doing so

    Looks like my original version of Snowden’s disclosures is correct – i.e., he reacted to the Agency’s effort to set him up as a pillow-take spy, like Ben Bishop, by arranging an escape, and release of classified documents which would make his helpless minders look like the fools they are.

    Looks more like a most clever self-server than anyone’s real spy.

  512. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 7:03 pm

    “Looks more like a most clever self-server than anyone’s real spy.”

    It’s too stupid a mistake, to be a mistake. Could he be a trojan horse?

  513. Time for a new post, Craig.

    This is turning into Mumsnet…

  514. resident dissident

    22 Jun, 2013 - 7:35 pm

    @Cryptonym

    “Libya under Gadaffi was probably the closest any country had ever come to a practical realisation of the theory of democracy, blah, blah………….”

    You are one of Gerry Healy’s “love” children and I claim my £5

    I just had a look at most of this thread and I wish I hadn’t bothered. The above sample only gets highlighted for being the most stupid of many contenders.

    Craig is still clearly banging on with his one sided view of interenational law when it is only breaches by one side of the argument that appear to matter. Perhaps he might wish to comment on why Iran sending troops into Syria, Hezbollah doing likewise (to say nothing of their use of suicide bombers), Syria’s blowing up of a Lebanese Prime Minister, Syria’s illegal occupation of Lebanon, the Assad dynasty’s myriad breaches of human rights law do not also represent clear breaches of international law. Perhaps he should also consider that the underlying purpose of the framework of international law that was set up after WW2 was to prevent dictators becoming established before they trash the human rights of their citizens and destroy the peace of their neighbours – and why said international law clearly failed in the case of Assad and Syria many years ago.

  515. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 8:26 pm

    @ Trowbridge H. Ford :

    “Chalk up another one for Mossad. It hated her {ie, Princess Diana}”
    ____________

    You will keep throwing around these ex cathedra statements, won’t you.

    So here’s a challenge : please tell us why “Mossad hated Princess Diana”.

    In your own words and not by simply linking to websites or your own blog.

    Off you go!

  516. Krupp thank you for your response and that link. The depth of some of the information there is new to me, and judging by earlier comments, probably to many others here.

    Btw, two questions — do you have an update on the status of reconstitution of the permanent members of the Security Council, and do you see the BRICS countries coming together at anytime as some sort of a counterbalance to the West? In other words can we expect any such thing as global peace within our generation??? Or is this just wishful thinking?

    I cannot believe the way we human beings live. Was it Aldous Huxley who said that Earth may be another planet’s Hell?

  517. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 8:43 pm

    Hi Villager

    Is Technicolour female? The thought never occurred to me and I’m astounded (but quite pleased, actually).

    @ Resident Dissident – good to see you back. Happy we share the same opinion about the Libya under Gaddafi bit.

  518. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 8:51 pm

    @ Villager

    The answer to your question on the BRICs is “no”.

    Given the juxtaposition and order of your sentences, I hope you aren’t so optimistic as to believe that ‘global peace within our generation’ would be achieved if only the Security Council was recast and the BRICs constitute a ‘counter-balance’ to the West.

    Finally, to complement your very last sentence, was it not Sartre who said “Hell is other people”?

    Greetings from Habbabkuk, lord of all he surveys.

  519. Sofia: “She was gratified to see what a venoumous and hysterical array of insults were returned, from yourself and others.”

    Do you have any examples of my insults to you? Anyway you have earned my pity and recognition that you are so lost there isn’t a chance you could help change anything on this planet. Re Kibo, keep it in check for sock-puppeting is forbidden here.

    “Isn’t it the false narratives and constant propaganda that needs to be challenged and dismantled, rather than the individuals who peddle them?”

    You poor soul, you really are so lost. Forgive me for repeating, I really meant that. I was reminded that Aldous Huxley who was a friend of K’s wrote a preface to one of his books — you might find that and read it for starters. Night, night.

  520. As the humungous scale of the NSA/GCHQ/Five Eyes Total Interception/Tempora/Prism – or whatever today’s latest project acronym is – begins to fully sink in, I think there’s going to be quite a few oh-oh moments like this one, as people put two and two together (and freak out completely):

    http://www.genewatch.org/uploads/f03c6d66a9b354535738483c1c3d49e4/DNAinNHS_GWbriefing_fin.pdf

    Sample quote:
    “Under this proposal, everyone’s NHS medical records and genomes [ie. their individual DNA profile] will be shared with companies such as Google without people’s knowledge or consent. Data-sharing will be global…”

    True story. Project has been snuck through by UK government without telling the public and it’s due to launch this month. Yikes!

  521. The edl turned up at the people’s assembly today. A small number, surrounded by police, walked straight into the throngs outside. Obviously they were challenged and there was a fracas. I had a copper say to me, “if you hit me again I’ll arrest you”. I had hit no one. Which the copper knew full well. I had asked why he wasn’t arresting an edl who had punched the man next to me. The punch had been delivered over a copper’s shoulder and the copper had then stood between us and the assailant. I saw two edl land punches on people but the police did nothing. I saw no edl arrested. But the police did arrest non-edl.

    It wasn’t overly violent, mostly pushing and shouting. The nerve of a handfull of racists to assault a mainstream political event in westminster was surprisingly ballsy. But the blatant favour and protection offered to the racists by the police was the real surporise. Very ominous. From Athens to London.

  522. On topic.
    Seems like it’s getting even more messy.
    “They are killing each other.”
    http://rt.com/op-edge/syria-dangers-arming-rebels-048/

    .
    Where are the UN lawyers on this issue?
    “….a boon to the lawyers is asset seizure, to which the Saudi Royals are very vulnerable because they have extensive personal holdings all over the world, particularly in public companies. As for the evidence, there is an endless supply of retired Intel people who can supply it, plus modern data-mining can update older information in a jiffy.”
    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/06/21/310084/saudi-arabia-and-support-for-terrorism/

  523. There’s more:

    DNA data to be shared worldwide in medical research project
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/05/dna-genetic-data-shared-medical-research?INTCMP=SRCH

    The subhead on this article claims that only anonymised DNA records will go in the database, but that can’t be the whole story otherwise the article wouldn’t also include this bit:

    “We recently intercepted a young woman who was about to have a mastectomy because of a genetic mutation which we’ve now shown isn’t a problem,”

  524. Vauxhall Q Footbridge III (Definitely not Kempe, no not at all)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 9:40 pm

    MOSSAD had to kill Diana because she was on the verge of converting to Islam so she could marry Dodi Fayed. As a crucial part of the Islamic conversion ceremony Diana would have had to openly reject and condemn her previous religion which would have exposed her as being a Jew. Not only that but both her sons were born and raised in the Jewish faith, what else would explain Harry’s eagerness to kill Muslims and William losing his hair just where his caplet would rub? Once king William (AKA Velvev) will pass laws making Britain a Jewish nation, driving out the Muslims and Christians and making the country a vassal to the state of Israel.

  525. why Iran sending troops into Syria, Hezbollah doing likewise (to say nothing of their use of suicide bombers), Syria’s blowing up of a Lebanese Prime Minister, Syria’s illegal occupation of Lebanon, the Assad dynasty’s myriad breaches of human rights law do not also represent clear breaches of international law.

    As ever the bollocks of unconscious drivel getting spewed, with a one sided and jaundiced view of anything outside of the corporate medjia’s remit. Iran is sending troops to rebuild the almighty destruction unleashed on Syria by the very democratic regimes in Saudi, Qatar, their sponsored mercenaries equipped by arms supplied by the US, et al and injected through Turkey and Jordan. The whole murderous affair getting choreographed by the mercenary for hire Erik Prince ensconced in Qatar. All the while with the active support and planning, of the US and co.

    The old crap about “democracy” and “human rights” are such a worn out, and fucked up excuses, considering the episodes of Iraq, Afghanistan, Abu Ghraib, Gitmo, Patriot act, Prism, Spies R us ……… These excuses no longer whitewash the theft of the resources, and repression of the owners of these resources.

    When Lebanon joins in to protect their own interests, this is portrayed as; Hezbollah terrorists fighting the “rebels”. However the same bunch of tossers complaining about the involvement of the neighbours of Syria to stop the “game changing” shenanigans of those sitting umpteen thousands of miles away and ordering the massacre, destruction of Syrians, all the while supporting the ziofuckwits and the ongoing murder fest and land theft in Palestine.

    The shameless bastards who defend such an unjust crimes against peace and crimes against humanity then wax lyrical about the “international law”!! That is fucked up taken to a new level.

  526. Thanks, V. Last I heard, the Small Five – Costa Rica, Jordan, Liechtenstein, Singapore and Switzerland (S-5) – had proposed:

    • End the P-5′s improvised back-room deals with formal UNSC rules of order.
    • Impose due process for lifting the sanctions that the P-5 impose for decades on end.
    • End the impunity that the P-5 enjoy by holding serious crimes to account, using all measures under international law.
    • Encourage the P-5 to vote no without invoking the veto power of Article 27(3).
    • Require the P-5 to justify their vetoes in terms of international law.
    • Prohibit vetoes of UN measures against the most serious crimes.

    The Small Five’s 21 points didn’t directly attack the UN’s fundamental inequities, the restricted membership of the Security Council and the veto. Those are tough nuts.

    Security Council expansion is complicated by the member states’ ambitions. Members are jockeying for position with competing proposals for permanent, renewable, or rotating seats held for various terms. Coalitions bid for new seats, weighing their ideals of rights and law against national and regional interests. The permanent members undercut broadened participation by appealing to national ambitions.

    No new member stands to gain a veto, and the P-5 refuse to cede their own. So the 21 points tried to moderate the veto power. They would subordinate the veto to the rule of law and establish precedents restricting its scope and discouraging its use. The United States, as the worst abuser of the veto, had the most to lose.

    But the S-5 withdrew the proposal when Secretariat legal counsel killed it by demanding an impossible two-thirds majority for adoption. The Small Five aimed for majority approval of their resolution, which anyway depended on the consent of the UNSC for compliance.

    Oh well. This is a project of generations, and the rule of law bloc is not giving up.

    This is a good source, http://www.centerforunreform.org/node/13

  527. Hi there Habby, re TC, yes i’m pretty sure and a soulful one at that. Clearly one of the deeper personalities around here.

    And I’m not an optimist at all, in fact if anything i tend to lapse to pessimism — for the most part i try to bring myself back to realism and awareness, the constancy of which is one of the most difficult things to be with. Still, i must say, the lack of inundation by a constant stream and barrage of random posts is helpful towards that reflective mind.

    In the same spirit i tend also to be very naive, hence my BRICS and UNSC questions. As we approached the turn of this millennium, the biggest news stories were Y2K and Blow jobs in the Oval Office. WE were (mis)lead to believe that we were marching into the rainbow. Then look what happened and where we are. But in summary, as one who understands debits and credits, the biggest hoax being pulled on us is the spend by the West (and others) on the accepted euphemism of ‘Defence’ while billions of our fellow humans live in hunger, thirst for clean drinking water and in miserable poverty. Its offensive in avery ugly way.

    Finally another of Huxley “There’s only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that’s your own self.”
    Time Must Have a Stop (1944)

    Our armchair activists who behave like they own the total space of compassion in the world — well we’ve seen how much grace some of them have. They take themselves ever so seriously and want to reprimand others who don’t immediately go ‘hear hear’. And then grace, the one thing in the shortest supply in this world goes out the window. I still can’t get over sweet Dreolin being called ‘petty’. But i’m ready now.

  528. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 10:31 pm

    “I just had a look at most of this thread and I wish I hadn’t bothered”

    Yet you got your two pence in, so it wasn’t a complete waste, now was it?

  529. Sofia Zabbalotna-Habbercake

    22 Jun, 2013 - 10:34 pm

    @ Krruppp

    Thanks. Good on the S5! I hope they keep plugging their proposals.

    …………………………………..

    @Villager 9 01pm
    “You poor soul, you really are so lost.”

    What is your problem?

    If you can’t remember your insults then try reviewing the “Arming Syria Thread” from the evening of the 16th on and on thru this “UN” thread. Do the looking yourself. You aren’t going to distract me again.

    And what on earth upsets you about me writing ….. “Isn’t it the false narratives and constant propaganda that needs to be challenged and dismantled, rather than the individuals who peddle them?”

    Re your final paragraph about Huxley and his friend K. I’m sorry but I just can’t understand it what it has got to do with any of this stuff. I’ve no argument with either of those great men.

    Why are we wasting our time squabbling among ourselves and not discussing how to counter (as Fedup (9 46pm) puts it …“The shameless bastards who defend such an unjust crimes against peace and crimes against humanity then wax lyrical about the “international law!”

    Let’s talk about how we can empower the UN to do it’s job for once and rein in the dogs of war?

  530. “Hows the weather over there?”

    Fine, cool breeze.

    It’s been overcast unfortunately I was hoping to see the perigee moon, maybe it will be clearer tomorrow.

  531. @phil

    I hope you enjoyed your dog walk and if is is what you wanted; you found some friendship peace and tranquility.

    Enjoy your future dog walks and hold find memories of previous.

  532. Sorry typo – Fond.

  533. “I just had a look at most of this thread and I wish I hadn’t bothered”

    Surely you have something to say in response of KOWN’s post of;

    “No, I genuinely don’t believe in the existence of the ‘anti-West narrative’ that you frequently inveigh against. I do think most posters on this thread are united by disgust and anger for much of what the West does, but that is not the same thing. As for the examples you cite – mistreatment of women in India, for example – I think the reason people don’t post on such issues is simply that these things are universally condemned and hardly worth the effort of pointing out on a forum where it can be tacitly assumed most people are on the same page. What gets people’s goat here, I submit without a trace of faux-naivety, is those instances where there is a chasm between the cruel things the west does and the way they are laundered and perfumed by such organs as the BBC.”

    Which was actually addressed to the Hubbu-Clown troll, who of course didn’t answer, but instead chose to continue trolling after Mary; would you like to engage with what KOWN wrote ?

  534. Krupp thank you for enlightening us on the S-5 initiatives. I must admit i had NO KNOWLEDGE of these highly important, even if subtle, events.

    “But the S-5 withdrew the proposal when Secretariat legal counsel killed it by demanding an impossible two-thirds majority for adoption. The Small Five aimed for majority approval of their resolution, which anyway depended on the consent of the UNSC for compliance.

    Oh well. This is a project of generations, and the rule of law bloc is not giving up.”

    Which leads me to question why a 2/3′s majority is so difficult to achieve, but i imagine it has something to do with Imperialism, past and present. So that is where we come back to. But it would be good if some of these smaller countries you mentioned plus countries like Iceland and Bhutan would form their own grouping, meet regularly and provide a considered agenda that credibly challenges, even without the power-base, some of the fundamental existential inequities in the planet. I think the younger generation is ripe and ready to pick up on global policy issues with their own Govts on the streets. They could end up playing the role of Elder Statesmen, since we don’t really have any left on the Planet anymore.

    I remember sharing positive celebratory words with a young Belgian friend working with the EU commission and she cautioned with a well lets see if he acts on his promises now. How wise she was. How naive i was and still am.

    At any rate, this must be a first to be having an on-topic conversation so deep, relatively speaking, in a thread on this blog. It’s refreshing to speak with an expert rather than one more purveyor of bits from medialens and dissident voice or whatever. Nothing wrong with that, but its all about quotations, rather than creative, original, fresh thinking whatever the source. Thanks for the source.

  535. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 11:27 pm

    “MOSSAD had to kill Diana because she was on the verge of converting to Islam so she could marry Dodi Fayed. As a crucial part of the Islamic conversion ceremony Diana would have had to openly reject and condemn her previous religion which would have exposed her as being a Jew. Not only that but both her sons were born and raised in the Jewish faith, what else would explain Harry’s eagerness to kill Muslims and William losing his hair just where his caplet would rub? Once king William (AKA Velvev) will pass laws making Britain a Jewish nation, driving out the Muslims and Christians and making the country a vassal to the state of Israel.”
    ___________

    Brilliant piss-take against our amigo Trowbridge, congrats to the unknown author! :) .

    Could you do one on man-made earthquakes some time (another Trowbridge speciality, I think)?

  536. Dear Sofia,
    As your father’s friend let me take you aside and share with you some home truths.

    Behind the dogs of war are the Dogs of Ignorance. Your father and I have crossed swords several times but we overcame them through grace, articulation of argument, an openness to understand each other, eventual mutual human respect and not least a sense of humour.

    You have a lot to learn about life, people, yourself. The latter apparently a self-propagated delusion as daughter of Habby. You might have pulled it off, had you half the sense of humour or intellect he has.

    Sorry to ‘distract you’, quite what i’m supposed to be distracting you from i haven’t figured.

    As for the UN, talk to Krupp — he seems immensely clued on. Good luck with your mission to change the world.

    Re “Re your final paragraph about Huxley and his friend K. I’m sorry but I just can’t understand it what it has got to do with any of this stuff. I’ve no argument with either of those great men.” Oh really, no argument, i’m sure they’re folding their hands in grace to be so lucky. But do you have the foggiest understanding of the limitations of thought, of knowledge and the ending of time? Thats what it has to do with — not signing the next petition that comes along. I petition the Lord with prayer on your behalf.

  537. “I remember sharing positive celebratory words with a young Belgian friend working with the EU commission and she cautioned with a well lets see if he acts on his promises now. How wise she was. How naive i was and still am.”
    Krupp that my reference was with to Obama’s original election.

    He has a lot more grey hair now but none the wiser imho.

  538. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 11:54 pm

    @ Macky

    You’re right, I do owe KingofWelshNoir a reply, which will follow tomorrow.

    As far as you’re concerned, my foul-mouthed and intemperate friend, I thought I’d send you this rather appropriate limerick for your bedtime reading. Please think of yourself as Lord Garsall in all but rhyme :

    “That snobbish surrealist, Garsall,
    Once did himself up in a parcel;
    He addressed it ‘Lord Garsall,
    The Keep, Garsall Castle’
    And mailed it first-class up his arsehole.”

  539. Good heaven !!

    Let that be a warning to everybody !

    If you befriend Habbu-Clown, you too will end up like Villager !

  540. Good heaven

    Let it be a lesson in identifying any number of members of a tag team quicker.

  541. At long last someone, somewhere has been forced to finally admit; the free ride is over! The fate of the US “democracy” brand is akin to that of ye olde USSR. Simply put, the US empire is imploding, and the last ditch attempts to keep it going (dronnings, wars, mass spying, repression, …..) are akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. The medjia pundits can print their printers out of ink all they manage, alas the facts are not going to change.

    Those of us who witnessed the implosion of the USSR, have for long seen the parallels in the recent events which have been unfolding. Why are the BRICs are crumbling? Welcome to the permanent revolution Note the last paragraph;

    In 1989, we learned that people prefer individual freedom to communism. Today, in many countries, it is capitalism that is associated with cronyism, repressive force and elite politics, and until that changes, this Human Spring looks likely to continue.

  542. Sofia writes:

    “Isn’t it the false narratives and constant propaganda that needs to be challenged and dismantled”

    Absolutely!!

    Sophisticated propaganda is built upon a false underlying narrative, myth, or story. That’s the key. It isn’t built of falsifications and lies just cobbled together, any which way.

    It has a fundamental narrative coherence, and that’s why it’s worked so well.

    The fundamental narrative of the West is, “We’re the good guys”. We can incorporate any critical or negative fact to that narrative, by simply saying that any seeming deviation from our “goodness” is a result of bad apples, mistakes, poor leadership, bad planning, unforeseen circumstances, necessity, and of course there’ll be an enquiry and we’ll learn lessons, apologize and move on etc.

    No matter what terror we visit upon others, the narrative, “We’re the good guys” thus remains.

    The primary function of our media is to ensure that all discourse is pivoted around the idea that we’re the good guys; that even the most horrible and disgusting of our crimes can be incorporated within that narrative of essential goodness.

    When the Pythons, at the setting of the sun upon the British Empire, asked ironically on behalf of its victims, “what have the Romans done for us”, they were essentially sustaining that narrative.

    The reason we rule the world today, and have ruled it for some several centuries now is precisely because we are very very very bad guys.

    And that’s a difficult narrative to sell to our own people.

  543. Thanks for the non-original limerick dear Clown, but you’re certainly no Kingsley Amis.

    There was a dull troll named Habbabkuk,
    Who thought himself somewhat of a hot-shot,
    Yet the only one who mistook him for genius,
    Was the appropriately named Village idiot.

  544. No, 2/3 shouldn’t be hard: c.f. the G-77+China, http://www.g77.org/doc/#aim
    now 4/5 of the world’s population and 2/3 of the UN membership vote:

    “We reaffirm that in our endeavours we are guided by all the principles and purposes of the United Nations Charter and by full respect for the principles of international law. To this end we uphold the principles of sovereignty and sovereign equality of States, territorial integrity and non intervention in the internal affairs of any State; take effective measures for the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of peace and encourage the settlement of international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered; refrain in international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations; develop friendly relations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self determination of peoples; achieve international cooperation in solving international problems of an economic, social, cultural or humanitarian character, and in promoting and encouraging respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language or religion.”

    Rule of law, that’s what they want. The US keeps it at bay only with exorbitant bribes and treacherous threats, pissing away its money and legitimacy. Every American hates their fucking government, hates it like the Germans hate the Stasi. Americans simply do not know of an alternative. Imagine if they found out what’s on offer in the civilized world.

  545. Cryptonym @ 22 june “2;48 am

    I have to Agree with that. Check out this video of Gaddafi Riding Through Tripoli Exposed from Waist up passing by many thousands of people. …Imagine Obomber, or cameron trying that one…The people would be well out numbered by the thugs in anti-riot armour

    The data in this Video is all factual

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRQ6uqhLvz8

  546. Sofia Zabolotna-Habbercake

    23 Jun, 2013 - 1:36 am

    Herbie 12 38am

    Spot on!

    “Sophisticated propaganda is built upon a false underlying narrative, myth, or story.”

    Even a fake 13.5yr old can get that. Thanks
    ……………………………………

    @Villager 11 41pm

    Let’s do a trade. I’ll answer two of your questions and you answer one of mine.

    You ask, “But do you have the foggiest understanding of the limitations of thought, of knowledge and the ending of time?”

    Well no. Not really. Nowhere near in fact. But I try hard enough to understand the world I find myself in and the people I encounter.

    You say “what i’m supposed to be distracting you from i haven’t figured.”

    This thread has a title, “Work for the UN.” Yes, you are distracting me from engaging with the subject of the thread.

    So, you have my two answers. Now let me ask you my question.
    Wh
    When you answered my earlier question, “Isn’t it the false narratives and constant propaganda that needs to be challenged and dismantled, rather than the individuals who peddle them?” with a patronising “You poor soul, you really are so lost”, just what did you mean​?

    I have fallen for this kind of distraction with you before, just as I have with Dad.

    I’ve also had this experience before of asking you a reasonable question and getting patronising insults instead of answers.

    I would love just this once to receive a genuine and clear reply.

    I know you don’t think much of me and you are welcome to remind me again, but please reply to my question.
    ………………………………………….

    Macky 12 39am

    I see you too are a student of the great William McGonnigle. But will you take care with that poetry! You might wake Kibo’s muse and you never know, he may launch into a nightmare version of “The Ancient Mariner” and clog the whole blog for weeks. Gods help us.

    Goodnight all.

  547. Sayanim tag team

    23 Jun, 2013 - 5:32 am

    I wish somebody would remind Villager (aka Kempe)& Co their virtual conga on this blog is fooling nobody. And Spurs fan Giles seems to have resurfaced
    as a Diana fan (or was it Habbakyke replying to himself), seems very Herzliya to me! Mod Jon of course is your typical dumb goy, unable to see through this cabala cabal that has obfuscated the real issues in this blog.

  548. @Brian.

    I have also knowledge of Gaddafi- $13 cents a gallon, free health care, add underground water system for agriculture and gold dinah.
    All of which are unsustainable.

    As always, we haven’t all the knowledge/information.

  549. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    23 Jun, 2013 - 8:23 am

    @ Macky (00h39)

    “Thanks for the non-original limerick dear Clown, but you’re certainly no Kingsley Amis.”
    ___________

    Indeed not, Macky.

    The limerick in question is quoted by Kingsley Amis in his “Memoirs” (Hutchinson, London, 1991, page 143); he ascribes it to Robert Conquest, writing under the pseudonym of Victor Gray.

  550. Flaming June

    23 Jun, 2013 - 8:52 am

    Statement by Julian Assange after One Year in Ecuadorian Embassy
    by Julian Assange
    June 22nd, 2013
    http://dissidentvoice.org/2013/06/statement-by-julian-assange-after-one-year-in-ecuadorian-embassy/

    ~~

    Meanwhile another brave young man is being hunted down by Amerika’s paid thugs. The word on Sky News is that he has left HK and is heading for Russia.

    ~~

    Phil @9.25pm I completely believe you.

    To the others – Good for successfully withstanding the double act in the early hours and to Fred, yes shame about the clouds obscuring the perigee moon. Perhaps better luck tonight. Moon gazing is better for the soul than reading the garbage anyway.

  551. Does anyone think the bodyguard, Rees-Jones, who survived the crash, has been frightened into silence? He seems to have experienced a rather conveniently circumscribed and permanent post-traumatic amnesia, even though, as far as one is aware, he remained conscious throughout his terrible ordeal.

    To be honest, in my conspiratorial mind, I’d half-expected his car to come off the road some years later, or something similar, but fortunately for he and his family, that hasn’t happened. Just as, in not dissimilar fashion, after 2003 I’d fully expected the USA/UK to plant WMD in Iraq in order to justify their invasion and destruction of that country. But that never happened, either, though it would’ve been very easy to have done so. Instead, the intelligence services took the flak. One is aware that it was the chamcha, Blair who ‘needed’ that particular piece of PR theatre; the psychotic Bush Admininstration needed no justification for invasion, since they ‘created their own realities’.

    Over the years, I have met people who have claimed that they have {I paraphrase] ‘done work for the government’ (the tacit assumption being that it was deniable, covert work, possibly Special Forces’ work) and who also claimed that their colleagues’ cars were [paraphrasing, again] ‘coming off the road… ‘. Indeed, ‘coming off the road’ seems to be a modus operandum, possibly because it’s so common in everyday life. As opposed to those other common metaphorical occurences of ‘going off the rails’ or ‘going round the bend’, perhaps.

    Whether the alleged ‘Diana Op’ was done by the UK or the UK and allies (UK, France and the much-loved bogeyman, Israel – a familiar alliance dating back to Suez, at least?), as Vronsky rightly suggests it remains suspicious, even among those in the outer layers of the establishment who are not normally given to such speculation. But I suspect that whoever actually did the deed (if indeed a deed was done), if it was ordered, it would have been ordered, or agreed to, by elements within the UK hard state. It could not have been done without that active or tacit approval.

    We probably will never know for certain, not even 100 years on.

    *’Chamcha’ – ‘spoon’ in Urdu – the term means, arse-licker, toady, the imagery I think being that of a smooth, curved back, forever bending over in submission, waiting for the lash. Like many such ‘spoons’, Blair is a very rich and vicious chamcha. The memorable question, put to Blair by a journalist after the death of Dr David Kelly, “Mr Blair, do you have blood on your hands” now seems rather like Cleopatra asking an asp, “Mr Asp, do you have venom in your mouth?”

  552. Sorry to butt in everyone.

    Edward Snowden has just landed in Moscow, according to the South China Morning News:

    “Whistle-blower Edward Snowden has left Hong Kong and is due to arrive in Moscow by this evening, the South China Morning Post can confirm.

    The former National Security Agency (NSA) contractor, who was last known to be hiding in Hong Kong, took off from city’s airport at 10.55am on Sunday morning was en route to Moscow’s Shermetyevo International Airport. He scheduled to arrive at 5.15pm.

    The Post was able to confirm that Snowden had been on an Aeroflot SU213 flight and headed to Moscow. Moscow will not be his final destination. Possible final destinations are either Iceland and Ecuador, according to previous media reports.

    The Russian embassy in Beijing would neither confirm nor deny Snowden is on a flight to Moscow. The Russian consulate in Hong Kong declined to comment.

    Snowden, who fled to Hong Kong on May 20, had expressed interest in seeking asylum in Iceland.”

    http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1267261/snowden-leaves-hong-kong-commercial-flight-moscow?login=1

    Not sure where I’d guess for final destination. Birgitta Jonsdottir’s been tweeting that he shouldn’t come to Iceland as “political support for him is not guaranteed”. And I guess if it was there, he’d have come by the private plane that was chartered, unless that was somehow blocked because it was already known about. Ecuador, then? Or why not Russia? Putin has already publicly offered him asylum – and that’s some BIG muscle he’d have behind him…

    And, yazzah!, it’s 9.16am GMT right now so he’s landing any minute now. Hrrraaaayyyyyyyyy!!!

  553. Flaming June

    23 Jun, 2013 - 9:27 am

    It’s official. The state broadcaster confirms it.

    23 June 2013 Last updated at 09:13

    Edward Snowden leaves Hong Kong on Moscow flight Breaking news

    US intelligence fugitive Edward Snowden has flown out of Hong Kong, the Chinese territory’s government has confirmed.

    The South China Morning Post quoted “credible sources” as saying he was due to arrive in Moscow on Sunday evening.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-23019414#

    Note he is an ‘intelligence fugitive’ and no longer a whistleblower.

  554. Thanks for your report on the usual political policing, Phil, Its good to see someone putting their money were their mouth is on here.

    Thanks for the update on the big DNA steal. I shall send a letter to my GP telling him that they have no authorisation to divulge my private DNA data to any third party outside the NHS.

    The reciprocal agreement between EU countries to treat each others residents, does not contain any provisions for such horse trading, afaik, and any future disclosure of information other than that of British subject should not be allowed.

  555. It is an ancient Bloggtroll,
    Pistoffeth two of three………

    Noooo!! Not even Kibo is that cruel.

    You could always have blamed Macky.
    .
    So, back to the topic.

    “States that provide arms have responsibilities in terms of the eventual use of those arms to commit … war crimes or crimes against humanity,”
    Paulo Pinheiro, chairman of the UN commission’s inquiry into rights violations in Syria.

    Good to see stirrings of life in the UN.

    From: http://rt.com/news/syria-chemical-weapons-un-105/

    .
    @ phil 9 25pm

    Thanks .

    Is your experience part of the slippery slope?

    http://mwcnews.net/focus/editorial/6315-israeli-settlers-terror.html

  556. I say good luck to Ed Snowden – he is a patriot, not a traitor. The traitors are those who set up systems which breach the Bill of Rights, break US and UK laws, and break international laws. The latest reports say that he is flying out of Moscow onward to another destination.

    We need the people to wake up. If NSA and GCHQ have access to all network traffic, this includes banking transactions for example. This is a breach of security which is unauthorised and is unlawful. It is all very well Messrs. Obama and Hague patting us on the head and saying that NSA and GCHQ are run by nice guys who care about our security, but access to banking and business networks is an open door for organised crime to infiltrate.

    If one bona fide 30yr old in-house idealist can copy out and publish the information Snowden has, then what scope is there for others far dodgier within this vast surveillance system to access information which we all believe to be secure, and then to do a lot of more significant damage.

    Did this happen on Tony Blair’s watch, or has it mushroomed since then?

  557. Hi Arbed, yes i agree, why not Russia? Iceland does sound a bit iffy. But its a pity that he couldn’t stay on in HongKong. If i understand it correctly, he may have had to spend a long time jailed there while he fought an extradition request. At least he’s likely to be free in Moscow while he considers other options. Choosing Ecuador could have the risk of complicating Assange’s own ongoing negotiations, i suspect. But i share your ‘Hooray”.

    Its difficult to read the Chinese mind — if you should come across an article clarifying that, along with the hard legal position in HongKong, please do share it. Please do stay in touch. Thanks.

  558. Traditional Chinese Simplified Chinese Email this article news.gov.hk
    HKSAR Government issues statement on Edward Snowden
    ***************************************************

    The HKSAR Government today (June 23) issued the following statement on Mr Edward Snowden:

    Mr Edward Snowden left Hong Kong today (June 23) on his own accord for a third country through a lawful and normal channel.

    The US Government earlier on made a request to the HKSAR Government for the issue of a provisional warrant of arrest against Mr Snowden. Since the documents provided by the US Government did not fully comply with the legal requirements under Hong Kong law, the HKSAR Government has requested the US Government to provide additional information so that the Department of Justice could consider whether the US Government’s request can meet the relevant legal conditions. As the HKSAR Government has yet to have sufficient information to process the request for provisional warrant of arrest, there is no legal basis to restrict Mr Snowden from leaving Hong Kong.

    The HKSAR Government has already informed the US Government of Mr Snowden’s departure.

    Meanwhile, the HKSAR Government has formally written to the US Government requesting clarification on earlier reports about the hacking of computer systems in Hong Kong by US government agencies. The HKSAR Government will continue to follow up on the matter so as to protect the legal rights of the people of Hong Kong.

    Ends/Sunday, June 23, 2013
    Issued at HKT 16:05

    NNNN

  559. Sorry to have doubled up there Arbed. It was hilarious that the state broadcaster was issuing that breaking news at the same time as their reporter in HK (Southworth) was speculating at length on where Edward Snowden would be heading.

    Keep up ZBC.

    ~~

    Their reporter Ms Knell reports on the win of the young singer from the refugee camp in Gaza. This made a change from her usual work of issuing propaganda for Israel. She cannot resist a little go in the aidebox though.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23017923

    ‘Gaza has not seen celebrations or such outpouring of emotion since the end of last year’s conflict with Israel….’

    Come off it Ms Knell. It is not a ‘conflict’. It was a fully militarized war by Israel against a captive people with a few rockets. The episode she refers to was named by the Israeli government as Pillar of Cloud, another OT trope. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillar_of_Cloud

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23017923

  560. “Krrup
    23 Jun, 2013 – 12:39 am
    No, 2/3 shouldn’t be hard: c.f. the G-77+China, http://www.g77.org/doc/#aim
    now 4/5 of the world’s population and 2/3 of the UN membership vote:”

    Krrup that’s good to know. Yes the G-77 was very active during the Cold War period. Their relevance remains as we see Wars strewn around with ever increasing numbers of casualties and increasing clashes of cultures. The UN is going to have to reinvent itself if it is going to have any credibility. Do you see that as realistic trend, or is it a pipe-dream? I fear top ‘leaders’ are so busy putting out internal fires that the thrust of attending with real strategic shifts is being neglected.

  561. Villager, 9.52am

    Chances that Edward Snowden’s final destination might be Ecuador are quite high, I think. Wikileaks’ press spokesman Kristinn Hrafnsson flew to Ecuador and he’s there right now:

    http://english.ruvr.ru/2013_06_23/WikiLeaks-Assange-Snowden-and-all-of-us-are-winning-Hrafnsson-9756/

    and he was the person who Snowden contacted for help in requesting asylum in Iceland:

    https://www.icelandreview.com/icelandreview/daily_news/Wikileaks_Prepared_to_Help_Snowden_Get_to_Iceland_0_400758.news.aspx

    Maybe Iceland said No. I don’t think it’s likely to complicate Assange’s asylum at all (in fact, I think it would help put more pressure on the UK to give up their ridiculous stance that an invalid EAW [because they're not supposed to be used for mere questioning] trumps international refugee law). Correa reiterated support for Assange only yesterday – says he’s welcome to stay in the embassy as long as needed and his asylum causes “no problems for Ecuador”:

    http://multimedia.telesurtv.net/media/telesur.video.web/telesur-web/#!es/video/rafael-correa-ratifica-apoyo-a-julian-assange

  562. “This thread has a title, “Work for the UN.” Yes, you are distracting me from engaging with the subject of the thread.”

    Well Krrup and i haven’t allowed ourselves to be distracted. We’ve been engaged in a very interesting conversation and i have learnt a lot from him. Please feel free to engage with him. It really is a very crucial subject relevant to all us global villagers in these critical times.

    Get back to you later on other ‘stuff’, but meantime if you can please help dig out my alleged earlier insults to you, I will be grateful.

  563. Thanks for that Arbed, and at an intellectual level you are right about Ecuador. I still worry that at a pragmatic level the powers that be will be vindictive towards Assange because of his role in helping Snowden and will be cheesed off with Correa.

    Is there a credible current analysis of what Assanges options really are? Being granted a diplomatic passport by Ecuador? The European Courts? There must be some game-plans.

  564. Hi Villager,

    Must be Ecuador:

    WikiLeaks @wikileaks 12m

    FLASH Snowden está ahora en espacio aéreo ruso y lo acompañan asesores legales de Wikileaks.
    Expand
    Reply Retweet Favourite More
    WikiLeaks @wikileaks 15m

    FLASH: Mr. Snowden is currently over Russian airspace accompanied by WikiLeaks legal advisors.
    Expand
    WikiLeaks @wikileaks 40m

    FLASH:Wikileaks ayuda al asilo politico de Snowden, facilitando documentos y salida segura de HK hacia un pais democratico. Mas info pronto
    Expand
    WikiLeaks @wikileaks 46m

    FLASH: WikiLeaks has assisted Mr. Snowden’s political asylum in a democratic country, travel papers ans safe exit from Hong Kong. More soon.

    I’m guessing the tweets in Spanish are a big clue… haha!

    Well done, Ecuador! Well done. You have the world’s thanks for this one.
    (And no small thanks due to Assange too – He’s been campaigning for Snowden like a demon. Reporters at the conference call he held with Dan Ellsberg and Thomas Drake last Wednesday said he seemed dog-tired and virtually incoherent at times, then he cancelled his speech yesterday so I guessed no sleep for days straight while he’s been busy trying to negotiate getting Snowden the hell out of Hong Kong to somewhere safe.)

  565. Tony, thanks for your post with the HK statement — putting it to us straight from the horse’s mouth as it were. Combined with your and Arbed’s comments, it is a refreshing change from the ticker-tape style ‘breaking news’ that tends to show up with predictable frequency, with no depth or value-add, just a need to be there first.

  566. Press release from Interfax Moscow

    06/23 13:36 SNOWDEN’S ULTIMATE DESTINATION IS VENEZUELA WHERE HE WILL FLY TO FROM MOSCOW WITH STOPOVER IN HAVANA – SOURCE

  567. It is an ancient Bloggtroll,
    Pistoffeth two of three………

    Noooo!! Not even Kibo is that cruel.

    You could always have blamed Macky.
    .
    So, back to the topic.

    “States that provide arms have responsibilities in terms of the eventual use of those arms to commit … war crimes or crimes against humanity,”
    Paulo Pinheiro, chairman of the UN commission’s inquiry into rights violations in Syria.

    Good to see stirings of life in the UN.

    From: http://rt.com/news/syria-chemical-weapons-un-105/

    .
    @ phil 9 25pm

    Thanks .

    Is your experience part of the slippery slope?

    http://mwcnews.net/focus/editorial/6315-israeli-settlers-terror.html

    …………………………………………..

    @ Village.r 10 26am

    You might get away with your act with the occasional visitor to these threads. But I think most regular readers will be able to write your handbook by now.

    It’s a good ploy.
    Write several pieces broadly supportive of various truth and justice strands.
    Groom occasional bright visitors who haven’t experienced yet how your team works.
    Then sow discord and confusion by attacking individual regular contributers.
    And it works. But only for a while.

    Now, I think you owe me an answer in return for the two I gave you on this thread at 1 36am.

    I’m not holding my breath but I’ll have a look this evening.

  568. That narrative, “we’re the good guys”, is being dismantled by Western whistleblowers fleeing their now overtly criminal regimes for sanctuary elsewhere.

    These are seminal moments, but I suspect the majority won’t notice until the avalanche finally engulfs them.

    Didn’t need to be this way, were western media and institutions not so criminally corrupt.

    To be fair though, it always ends like this.

    On a more positive note, the criminals who have brought us to this sorry state have nowhere else to flee.

  569. Cool, Kibo, cool.

    It was an attempted coup, and poorly executed.

  570. Having returned from a short period of self imposed exile (yes Dreolin a break is good and sorry for shouting at you Jon) I was a bit taken aback by the ongoing trolling wars here. I want to congratulate little sofia and kibo. I cannot think of a better response to the likes of villager and habakuk (may their sould rot in the dark). Once tuned in these threads can be seen as a unique, somewhat surreal, modern, artistic response to the propaganda wars. Well done.

    And thanks to the trolls for unwittingly helping us break new ground. No, actually I hope karma hunts you down.

  571. “Kibo Noh
    23 Jun, 2013 – 11:21 am

    ” Now, I think you owe me an answer in return for the two I gave you on this thread at 1 36am.”

    And the comment left at 1.36am was by one Sofia. Here is verbatim:

    ” Sofia Zabolotna-Habbercake
    23 Jun, 2013 – 1:36 am
    Herbie 12 38am

    Spot on!

    “Sophisticated propaganda is built upon a false underlying narrative, myth, or story.”

    Even a fake 13.5yr old can get that. Thanks
    ……………………………………

    @Villager 11 41pm

    Let’s do a trade. I’ll answer two of your questions and you answer one of mine.

    You ask, “But do you have the foggiest understanding of the limitations of thought, of knowledge and the ending of time?”

    Well no. Not really. Nowhere near in fact. But I try hard enough to understand the world I find myself in and the people I encounter.

    You say “what i’m supposed to be distracting you from i haven’t figured.”

    This thread has a title, “Work for the UN.” Yes, you are distracting me from engaging with the subject of the thread.

    So, you have my two answers. Now let me ask you my question.
    Wh
    When you answered my earlier question, “Isn’t it the false narratives and constant propaganda that needs to be challenged and dismantled, rather than the individuals who peddle them?” with a patronising “You poor soul, you really are so lost”, just what did you mean​?

    I have fallen for this kind of distraction with you before, just as I have with Dad.

    I’ve also had this experience before of asking you a reasonable question and getting patronising insults instead of answers.

    I would love just this once to receive a genuine and clear reply.

    I know you don’t think much of me and you are welcome to remind me again, but please reply to my question.
    ………………………………………….

    Macky 12 39am

    I see you too are a student of the great William McGonnigle. But will you take care with that poetry! You might wake Kibo’s muse and you never know, he may launch into a nightmare version of “The Ancient Mariner” and clog the whole blog for weeks. Gods help us.

    Goodnight all.”
    —-
    So there we have it. QED
    The double-act slipped up unwittingly — couldn’t keep up with her schizophrenic self.
    I have been pointing out this sock-puppeting for a few days now but no action has been taken.
    Over to Jon now.

  572. Jon, just thought i’d flag my post above.

  573. Tony Press release from Interfax Moscow

    06/23 13:36 SNOWDEN’S ULTIMATE DESTINATION IS VENEZUELA WHERE HE WILL FLY TO FROM MOSCOW WITH STOPOVER IN HAVANA – SOURCE

    Three cheers for Edward and Julian. Out of the clutches of the Obomber thugs.

    Venceremos!

    I heard it on the radio. I bet it left a bitter taste in the state broadcaster’s mouth having to say it.

    Also heard a lot about Gideon’s further tranche of AUSTERITY. What an evil bunch they are. Out with the lot of them.

  574. What IS Villager on about?

  575. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    23 Jun, 2013 - 12:38 pm

    Since the previous limerick I posted (by the great Robert Conquest) obviously delighted its addressee “Macky”, I thought I’d post another one (again, by Robert Conquest) in the hope that at least one of our other readers will appreciate it:

    “The first man to fuck little Sophie
    Has just won the Kraft-Ebing Trophy,
    Plus ten thousand quid,
    Which, for what the chap did,
    Will be widely denounced as a low fee.”

  576. Thanks Arbed for your excellent posts, as it looks like, the misinformation spread by the NSA and Governments has failed to derail Snowden and or his supporters worldwide, great news.

    Our combined thanks should also go to Julian and Wikileaks for working non stop to help Edward leave HK and for negotiating an asylum for him in Ecuador.

    Viva Ecuador!

    When we buy computers we are not told that this implement, just as our mobiles, keep constant tabs on us, day and night.

    More whistle blowers coming forward will have a marked correlation with the increase in encryption, so it is important to enable people, inform them of the option to keep important dates offline and keep our agencies busy with very little.

    Has any of you heard much of the World bank whistle blower Karen Hudes. She is being harassed by the US courts and is of the opinion that the fed and Goldmann Sachs as well as other large banks are one large banking conglomerate hell bent on control of the markets.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oSiJQituAo

    Phil, karma karma, self harmer.

    I’m in London on the 3rd. but not for long, but you are welcome to come up here for a pub assault course and dog walking weekend here, who knows, we might even run into Komodo if he’s around and fancies a jar of ale.

  577. The troll-in-chief is getting mucky again. Must have been rattled.

    ~~

    ‘Suspicious item’ found outside a mosque in Walsall.

    Who would stoop that low? Silly question.

  578. Flaming June
    23 Jun, 2013 – 12:35 pm
    What IS Villager on about?
    ——-
    Very simple Mary. Sofia and Kibo are one and the same person. Hence they have been sock-puppeting as they say.

    You use different names but one at a time and you quite rightly have never denied that you are Mary. I think you should come back in that name now — no need to wait till July.

    Stay well and have a good day, hopefully with a laugh or two added.

    One day i might share how i uncovered the Sofia-Kibo gloves.

  579. Ha ha ha Habbakuk

    Brilliant one! Touche! .

  580. Why do people bother posting with persistent personas anyway? Don’t see any reason why a recognizable nym should outlive a particular topic. If everybody posted as a disembodied voice, there would be less spatting and pestering and more focus on the content. Genuine trolls would knock themselves out trying to figure out who’s who, and GCHQ databases would burgeon with relational crap that takes human intervention to sort out.

    Having said that, now I’m going to kill this nym. Goodbye, cruel world.

  581. Fecking hell is there a day that goes by without these ziofuckwits running to “sir”/Jon and telling on the others? The tag team of the cabalistic/Talmudic tossers are writing limericks promoting paedophilia, now.

    ===========

    Snowden has upset Trowbridge big time! The puny Snowden is not staying put in one place to spy, unless he has picked up the package he was supposed to pick up and is on his way to hand it over to a covert CIA agent somewhere in the world!!???

    However seriously must hand it to this guy, he has been playing the game just right, and seems to be staying one step ahead of the CIA all the way. The fact that en mass spying has not resulted in picking up Snowden calls for a new program of spying on the spies, which of course will mean to set up an outfit to spy on the spies, who are spying on people, and so forth. The plot is getting to be like the old Japanese gangster movies more and more by the minute.

  582. Nevermind, 12.41pm

    Thanks. All the news reports are saying the final destination is Venezuela but my money’s still on it being Ecuador – that was the first suggestion Assange made, even before Snowden’s identity was known. I’m also going on recent comments by Assange as to why he chose Ecuador himself in the first place. He said it was because of a “strong president in the region”. I don’t think you can extend that to Maduro – his election win was a much closer call than expected, contrasted with Correa’s runaway success during Ecuador’s elections in February. He’s firmly installed for another four years – that’s the kind of stability Snowden will be looking for.

    PS. My earlier posts were wrong about the landing times (I was going by the flight times given in the South China Morning Post minus 8 hours to get GMT, but seems that’s not right somehow) – apparently Snowden’s still in the air, travelling with Wikileaks staffer Sarah Harrison and due to be met by diplomats from the “third country” in Moscow airport transit section, and accompanied by them from there.

  583. Will be interesting to see if Washington goes all out to get Edward Snowden – as Reagan did with the PLF killers of Leon Klinghofer – or just let him disappear in Iceland or in some country in South America.

    Obama could arrange for American fighters, particularly carrier-based ones, to intercept a flight to any of those places, and force it to land in the UK, Florida, or Puerto Rico.

    Suspect Washington has warned Moscow of helping the leaker avoid justice, and remains to be seen if Putin still allows Aeroflot or other carriers take him out of Russia.

    Doubt that Washington will go to the brink over it, but Snowden has caused the USA much more damage than Abu Abas’s killers.

  584. Here’s a bit of confirmation that indicates the Wikileaks Grand Jury is set on “conspiracy to commit espionage” charges against Julian Assange(probably already in a sealed indictment):

    This article is about the recently unsealed subpoenas for the Gmail accounts of ex-Wikileaks volunteers Smari McCarthy and Herbert Snorrson:

    http://mashable.com/2013/06/22/google-wikileaks/

    Key quote from the article: “The information seized is a vast trove of metadata going as far back as Nov. 1, 2009.” – That date is the one that US prosecutors in Bradley Manning’s trial have insisted on for the Garani video being sent to Wikileaks (despite clear evidence to the contrary that Bradley sent it in April 2010), because otherwise they can’t say Wikileaks’ tweet of 8 January 2010 about their receipt of an Afghani airstrike amounts to evidence of a conspiracy.

  585. Washington will only get crazed about Snowden if he has some more dangerous beans to spill, which I doubt. They would not escort nor shoot his plane down, nor compromise themselves with China, Russia – nor Cuba, Ecuador nor Venezuela for that matter, because it isn’t worth it. They’ll figure they’ll get him sooner or later and have done enough to put other wannabe whistle-blowers off for the moment. In the meantime as with Assange he is imprisoned albeit not in Guantanamo nor anywhere in the US, but he is effectively behind bars and under control.

    Damage limitation will be the name of the game. Washington is anxious to crush Assad then Iran. That will be higher priority than shutting up a whistleblower who has already done most of the damage he could ever do. Poking China or Russia with sharp sticks over Snowden will slow down Washington’s bloodlust for the crushing of Assad and Iran. They will think Russia and China will let them get on with Assad’s demise in the end.

  586. Flaming June

    23 Jun, 2013 - 2:37 pm

    Villager What I care to call myself is none of your business. Nor is it any business of ‘sweet Dreoilin’ who, if I remember correctly, leapt in following the chief troll to tell everybody who April Showers was when I changed my name and has reminded since. At the time I was attempting to escape from the troll’s unpleasant attentions. It is totally against my nature to be deceptive and I hated using a name other than my real name.

    She even had to jump in on this thread. “Mummy Mummy it wasn’t him. Look. It was ‘Flaming June’.” I don’t know where the perceived animus arises as I can remember being supportive of her with family worries in the old days, when the EU bankers were shafting her country and when the Irish banks and economy crashed, etc. I actually share a common heritage. My father came from Limerick.

    Anyway all of this is totally trivial and a diversion has successfully been created again by trolls. There are very important things going on in the real world.

  587. There can be little doubt that Snowden has more damaging information about what happened to leakers like GCHQ/MI6 agent Gareth Williams and his GCHQ associate Gudrun Loftus.

    Williams was involved in setting up CIA sleeper agents aka the Manhattan 11 as Russian spies, and was in the process of taking that information to Moscow when he was poisoned, it seems, by NSA hitmen – what Executive Director William KIng Harvey had established during his last days with CIA.

    For more on them, read Bamford about its establishment in Beltsville, MD.

    Williams went to Washington after the fiasco was settled by Putin, and he could well have been looking for fellow hacker Snowden who helped out in breaking into their lap tops to make himself more attractive to Moscow, and was obviously upset by his fate. He only became a loose cannon when NSA tried to get rid of him by joining him to the honey-trap that Ben Bishop had fallen for.

    Suspect that what Snowden knows about the fate of serious NSA leakers is why Putin is so willing to help out, and he will disclose them if Washington goes bonkers over Snowden’s escape,

    Consequently, Obama will not only let him escape, and be more supportive of Russia’s approach to the Syrian conflict for fear that Moscow will reveal more of what Snowden has stolen from NSA.

  588. Krrrrpppp p 23 Jun, 2013 – 1:22 pm
    “Why do people bother posting with persistent personas anyway…and GCHQ databases would burgeon with relational crap that takes human intervention to sort out.”

    I doubt GCHQ relies on human intervention to track people who change their online name. They are probably a little more sophisticated than that.

    Like others here I prefer to use my real name. Fear is a weapon. Not being afraid is the only response. People tend to rationalise their fear with concerns about tax or weed or some such thing. But that’s crap. Noone is innocent. Fight the fear. Grab your rollys there’s a meeting down the docks!

  589. @Nevermind – sounds great. Please get my email off our mutual friend and drop me a line.

  590. Good article exploring the Intelligence protection racket.

    “The intelligence-security industry isn’t about protecting the United States or you, except for extraordinarily rare, virtually accidental occurrences. It’s about wealth and power. Yet every politician and every government functionary speaks reverently of the sacred mission and crucial importance of “intelligence” in the manner of a syphilitic preacher who clutches a tatty, moth-eaten doll of the Madonna, which he digitally manipulates by sticking his fingers in its orifices. Most people would find his behavior shockingly obscene, if they noticed it. But they don’t notice it, so mesmerized are they by the preacher with his phonily awestruck words about the holy of holies and the ungraspably noble purpose of his mission. Even as the suppurating sores on the preacher’s face ooze blood and pus, his audience can only gasp, “We must pay attention to what he says! He wants only the best for us! He’s trying to save us!”"

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article35389.htm

  591. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    23 Jun, 2013 - 3:52 pm

    “Fear is a weapon. Not being afraid is the only response”

    ________

    The above, from Phil, is one of the sanest comments on this thread.

  592. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    23 Jun, 2013 - 3:53 pm

    HK made a rather extraordinary statement in connection with the exit. Citing Manning, the US is now anti-dissident on the World stage. It’s quite a slap in the face.

    Russia’s involvement shouldn’t include any self-righteous sniggering until Pussy Riot gets out of jail free.

  593. What a great woman.A must watch.Copy left right and centre.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_-Ie6JQquM

  594. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    23 Jun, 2013 - 3:57 pm

    “There are very important things going on in the real world.”

    And certainly there is sufficient animosity. Keeping close alliances with supportive and non-enabling discussions without acrimony will get more important than ever. No need to fight with fellow dissidents.

  595. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    23 Jun, 2013 - 4:04 pm

    From Flaming June :

    “…following the chief troll to tell everybody who April Showers was when I changed my name and has reminded since.”
    ____________

    On the assumption that “the chief troll” is a reference to me, I do plead guilty to having identified “April Showers” as Mary redux (is that the right Latin expression, Doug Scorgie?).

    But, you see, it wasn’t difficult for someone as acute as I, or even for those less so: the name changed, but the person was easy to identify because the style (I shall remain polite!), the subjects, the general philosphy and even the frequency of the comments were unchanged from those of the Mary who left vowing never to return.

    If this sounds as if I agree with KrrrpppP, who said earlier on that

    “Why do people bother posting with persistent personas anyway? Don’t see any reason why a recognizable nym should outlive a particular topic.”

    then you would be wrong. As someone else wrote, quite recently, keeping the same name does provide other readers with some history and context and thus makes it easier for them to evaluate comments from the same person but on different subjects.

  596. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    23 Jun, 2013 - 4:15 pm

    As Mary’s told us her father’s from Limerick, here’s another one.

    I’m afraid it uses some rude words, for which, apologies, but on the other hand it might please from a party political point of view (so to speak).

    Again, from the great Robert Conquest, writing under the name Victor Gray.

    “Sir John Shagbag (Conservative, Nore):
    ‘The Honorable Lady’s a whore.
    Even now, you know what:
    Churchill’s prick’s in her twat.’
    (Some applause. Labour cries of ‘Withdraw’)

  597. Russia’s involvement shouldn’t include any self-righteous sniggering until Pussy Riot gets out of jail free.

    You are aware that “Pussy Riot” were charged with blasphemy and religious sites’ desecration, thus sentenced?

    Those in glass houses and stones, etc. The plain fact is; thank fuck for the competition to the fuckwits running US, so that the dissidents can run into these other places and highlight the corruption and lawlessness in the West.

  598. Anyone predicting when the guardian will turn on snowden? I can’t see greenwald lasting either what with him doing journalism and stuff.

  599. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    23 Jun, 2013 - 4:30 pm

    “You are aware that “Pussy Riot” were charged with blasphemy and religious sites’ desecration, thus sentenced?”

    Yeah. I know the story. What does that have to do with anything. Al Capone was indicted for cheating on his income taxes….?????????

  600. Was Snowden’s surprise flight from HK triggered by the fact that NSA/GCHQ has agreements with China and HK for data-mining at stations at Qital and Furla in Western China and at the British Embassy in Hong Kong aka The Alamo which protect their operations from disclosure, and require the handing over of any leakers – what pushed both authorities to allow him to escape to Russia?

  601. Thanks Dave Lawton for the link to the irish Ind., she speaks up alright, no mincing of words there. Unlike the above two pos(t)ings.

    @Phil, don’t know how he is, waiting to hear from him, shall ask him for your details, I’ll let you know.

    Wonder what the UN says on computer companies selling laptops which spy on people. What of companies proud to offer server space, with pud and brass music, are they telling customer of their ‘sharing’?.

    Has the UN been superseded by a new consciousness that is international, that values freedom and liberty but also privacy and freedom of expression? Is what we are seeing world wide a perpetuation of this new consciousness, at many levels, online, on the streets and over there, not just in Athens, but also in Turkey and many of Brazil’s largest Cities, a realisation of self worth by millions of people, thoroughly fed up and not playing anymore.

  602. @Nevermind – I think I’ve found you. Check your inbox.

  603. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (Unleaded Version)
    23 Jun, 2013 – 3:57 pm
    “There are very important things going on in the real world.”

    And certainly there is sufficient animosity. Keeping close alliances with supportive and non-enabling discussions without acrimony will get more important than ever. No need to fight with fellow dissidents.

    Hi Ben, just to confirm are you saying the same kind of thing as Aldous Huxley, here? :

    ” It is a bit embarrassing to have been concerned with the human problem all one’s life and find at the end that one has no more to offer by way of advice than “Try to be a little kinder.”

    If so, i couldn’t agree with you more!

  604. Arbed
    23 Jun, 2013 – 1:33 pm

    “Thanks. All the news reports are saying the final destination is Venezuela but my money’s still on it being Ecuador – that was the first suggestion Assange made, even before Snowden’s identity was known. I’m also going on recent comments by Assange as to why he chose Ecuador himself in the first place. He said it was because of a “strong president in the region”. I don’t think you can extend that to Maduro – his election win was a much closer call than expected, contrasted with Correa’s runaway success during Ecuador’s elections in February. He’s firmly installed for another four years – that’s the kind of stability Snowden will be looking for.”

    Astute thinking –very persuasive.

  605. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    23 Jun, 2013 - 5:18 pm

    Like that one, Villager; this too.

    ““The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.”

    ― Charles Bukowski

  606. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    23 Jun, 2013 - 5:21 pm

    Good air routes between Venezuela and Ecuador from Havana.

    The reichwing is gonna love the synchronicity of digging up the ‘Commie’ corpse.

  607. Craig has said spying on ordinary citizens is ‘despicable’ and in the same tone, throttling information channels that offer clean, objective and honest facts as an alternative to a controlled mainstream news media is equally beyond contempt.

    America can now be regarded as a ‘police state’ certainly from current disclosures a ‘surveillance state’ and I guess in two years time UK will itself be close to martial law in an attempt to crush dissent and resistance arising from a schism of government and an informed and enlightened British people.

  608. The still least investigated part of Snowden’s career is his leaving NSA’s Special Collection Service in Geneva in 2009, merely stating that it was doing more harm than good. He then went to Dell and to Booz Allen where he just worked of developing eavesdropping equipment rather than using it.

    The 2009 resignation seems an allusion to the Manhattan 11 fiasco – what surely got Williams to go off the rails too.

    The point then is why it took Snowden four years to go rogue himself? Seems like the Agency’s effort to entrap him too in what was happening in the Bureau’s investigation of defense contractor Ben Bishop.

    Seems Snowden was forced to become a dangerous spy.

  609. http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/06/work-for-the-un/comment-page-4/#comment-414102

    Unfortunately the Limerick would not be acceptable in Limerick as it wouldn’t rhyme there.

    I think that’s what did for Shaw’s alphabet.

  610. Flaming June

    23 Jun, 2013 - 6:15 pm

    The chief troll becomes more and more revolting.

  611. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    23 Jun, 2013 - 6:19 pm

    @ Polo :

    would you like me to pass that comment on to Robert? :)

  612. @Habbaduk (4:43pm)

    Ha ha ha ha ha ho ho hee hee ha

  613. Flaming June

    23 Jun, 2013 - 6:37 pm

    Ben Franklin seems to think that we are ALL dissidents on here.

    ~~

    The US are not liking this public humiliation one bit. They have now revoked Edward Snowden’s US passport. Hopefully he will be provided with another by a sympathetic party.

  614. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    23 Jun, 2013 - 6:51 pm

    Now you want to flame me, Mary? Maybe a little discretion in my use of the word ‘dissident’ is called for.

    Discretion, anyone?

  615. Flaming June

    23 Jun, 2013 - 7:03 pm

    That’s big of you Mr Shultz.

    Starbucks says pays UK corporation tax after row
    23 Jun 2013

    LONDON, United Kingdom (AFP)
    US-based coffee giant Starbucks said on Sunday it had paid £5 million in British corporation tax and will pay another £15 million by next year after facing a backlash from lawmakers

    http://www.afp.com/en/news/topstories/starbucks-says-pays-uk-corporation-tax-after-row

    PS BDS is still on your case Mr Schultz.

    http://www.inminds.co.uk/boycott-starbucks.html

  616. @ Habbabkuk

    By all means. It it pretty crap as a Limerick anyway. Seriously straining at the seams.

  617. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    23 Jun, 2013 - 8:14 pm

    @ Polo

    Most limericks walk along a (technical)tightrope, don’t they. Could you produce a better one?

    @ Mary

    Don’t be a hypocrite. I seem to remember you preceding the odd post with a “WTF” – could you tell us what that acronym stands for, please?

    @ Ben Franklin

    try using “a discreet dissident” just to keep the Old Biddy happy

    @

  618. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    23 Jun, 2013 - 8:19 pm

    I should very much like to hear from Trowbridge Ford whether any public figure ever died a natural death (as opposed to being assassinated by the CIA/MI6/Mossad, etc) and whether there has been any serious earthquake since WW2 which occurred from natural causes (as opposed to having been man-made in furtherance of some dastardly agenda)?

  619. A Phóló,

    Tá sé nócha cúig, Robert Conquest. Déarfainn gur cuma leis faoin am seo.

  620. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    23 Jun, 2013 - 8:23 pm

    @ Flaming June

    “That’s big of you Mr Shultz.”
    _____________

    For once, I agree with Mary. As Starbuck’s tax arrangements, although deplorable, are perfectly legal within the law as it stands at present, its gesture is to be welcomed. Better than the two fingers it could have (perfectly legally) given, surely?

  621. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    23 Jun, 2013 - 8:26 pm

    Hey Dreoilin, just spotted yours + glad to see you back.

    You’ll have noticed that there’s been so much….rudeness on this thread lately. I hope you’re not being rude about Robert?

  622. No, Habbabkuk, I was saying that Robert Conquest is 95 and probably doesn’t care much whether things rhyme or not.

  623. Regarding the possible murder of Michael Hastings, I got this via Twitter

    Full remote control of ALL modern U.S. market cars PROVEN
    Jim Stone, June 21 2013

    “A team of hackers from the Department of Computer Science at the University of Washington conducted a study which has proven that all cars equipped with antilock brakes sold in the U.S. can be hacked via remote control and have their brakes entirely disabled with the car in motion, throttle revved, and remain fully operational with the key removed and the car in park with all driver input entirely ignored.”

    More at the link
    http://www.jimstonefreelance.com/carhack.html

    (I’m not familiar with the website, so if anyone knows anything against it, please let me know)

  624. and this gave me a smile this morning

    https://twitter.com/rustleberry/status/348660254843744257

    (click the image for a bigger version)

  625. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    23 Jun, 2013 - 8:40 pm

    @ Dreoilin

    Oh, thanks for that! Do you know anything about Robert Conquest, as a matter of interest? Wonderful chap – most of the denizens of this blog would hate him, but I don’t think Craig would.

    Actually, he also reworked the Ballad of Eskimo Nell and wrote a sequel called “Mexican Pete”. I’d like to treat readers to a couple of lines but am held back by the fear of being castigated for obscene language by Mary. What to do?

  626. As Peter Fraser -once a bent lawyer, always a bent lawyer is dead, time to consider with no holds barred his baleful legacy of inadequacy, incompetence and service to the UKUSIS’ fascist regimes.

    http://lockerbiecase.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=%22fraser+of+carmyllie%22

    Essential reading:
    http://www.deliberation.info/an-innocent-man-abdelbaset-ali-mohammed-al-megrahi-1952-2012/

    The stench continues – http://www.deliberation.info/racism-or-assimilation/

    From the horses’s mouth -nothing some PR can’t mend eh:
    http://www.deliberation.info/failed-hasbara-insults-just-bounce-off-alice/

    “The Israeli hasbara apparatus is large, sophisticated…. It is difficult to find any nation, even those embroiled in long-term conflict situations, that trains civilians to take part in hasbara messaging for its policies while abroad, or that sends groups of young citizens to advocate its position on campuses worldwide.”

    Strictly on-topic as the topic is the UN’s failure to enforce international law and protect human rights; its failure as an institution began with blackmail and arm-twisting, threats, resulting in conditional recognition of the Israeli state, which conditions, right of return, relinquishing by Israel of Palestinian land illegally seized, stolen and so on have yet to be met. The Israeli genocide of the Palestinian people beginning with the events of 1948 were the first major incident since ww2 ended and resulted in worldwide revulsion and disbelief, the first major crisis which the UN faced and in which it failed utterly, failed us, failed the Palestinians and failed in the principal purpose justifying its existence.

  627. “Do you know anything about Robert Conquest, as a matter of interest?”

    I don’t, I’m afraid. I looked him up here (assuming he’s the right guy)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Conquest

    I think people here are adults, Habbabkuk. Quote whatever you like, I’d say. I doubt if you’ll post any ‘obscene language’ that has not been heard or seen before. (The Scots, the Welsh and the Irish are pretty colourful in their own vernacular anyway.)

  628. doug scorgie

    23 Jun, 2013 - 8:58 pm

    Someone
    21 Jun, 2013 – 10:07 am

    “…BBC is fully on board with the D-Notice.”

    Yes and the rest of the MSM too.

    The most vocal champions of a free press become silent at the drop of a D-notice.

    None of them complain of state imposed censorship and I wonder why when the D-notice system is not legally enforceable:

    “The system is voluntary, it has no legal authority and the final responsibility for deciding whether or not to publish rests solely with the editor or publisher concerned.”

    http://www.dnotice.org.uk/danotices/index.htm

    I wonder though, what would happen to editors or publishers if they disregarded the D-notice and continued to publish;
    unexplained accidents or suicides?

  629. @ Habbabkuk re bettering Robert

    Probably, but I would prefer to quote one passed on to me by a Franciscan Friar, since gone to his own heavenly reward.

    There once was a lass from Cape Cod
    Who believed in intervention by God.
    But twas not the Almighty
    Who lifted her nightie
    But John, the lodger, the sod.

  630. The United States has been attempting to elbow the UN out of the way for a long time, and has partially or even largely succeeded.

    The U.S. Gov’t likes to pretend that international law doesn’t exist, and that statements by the UN are irrelevant because they (the U.S.) can make up the laws as they go along. And to a large extent they are getting away with it.

    [I used to say (quite proudly) that the only time Irish soldiers saw real 'action' was as UN peacekeepers. Quite a number of them died in Lebanon. But nowadays, UN peacekeepers don't have the reputation they once had.]

  631. doug scorgie

    23 Jun, 2013 - 9:10 pm

    Flaming June
    21 Jun, 2013 – 11:13 am

    “Are you referring to Welby Nevermind? Will he go to Gaza or to the ‘West Bank’?”

    More to the point perhaps. Will he go to Tel-Aviv or Jerusalem?

  632. Oh please all of you go and read Roethke and that old reactionary TS Eliot for a bigger window from which to pontificate

  633. I thought Theodore Roethke wrote poetry, not limericks. And I don’t think anyone is ‘pontificating’, Ruth, just talking.

  634. @Habbabkuk

    As Starbuck’s tax arrangements, although deplorable, are perfectly legal within the law as it stands at present, its gesture is to be welcomed. Better than the two fingers it could have (perfectly legally) given, surely?

    Do you really think so?

    To me the donation is purely an exercise in damage limitation with respect to their tarnished image. Just as these powerful corporations do not come up with their fiendishly complicated tax arrangements by accident, but after much thought and Machiavellian design, so too I don’t think they make moves like this without equally intense calculation. In this case, no doubt, the donation was preceded by numerous high-powered meetings in which it was worked out in meticulous detail how little they could get away with paying while achieving the effect of repairing their image and defraying the cost at the till that the damage had brought about.

    But hey, I’m a cynic. Maybe they are all racked with remorse!

  635. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    23 Jun, 2013 - 9:29 pm

    @ Polo

    wonderful! I’ll store it. (the first comma in the last line is a lovely last touch)

    @ Dreoilin

    yup, you got the right man. I feel emboldened to give some lines from “Mexican Pete”, courtesy (again) of Kingsley Amis; perhaps the sideswipe at the Holy Father will induce Mary to forgive the rude words contained.

  636. For all those who remember Habbabkuk earlier in the thread mentioning the incident in which Obama called our wonderful Chancellor of the Exchequer ‘Geoffrey’, this Tweet from Max Keiser made me chuckle:

    ‘George Osborne says he’s happy Obama called him ‘Shithead’

  637. “perhaps the sideswipe at the Holy Father will induce Mary to forgive the rude words contained.”

    I’m not sure, Habbabkuk. I’m beginning to think she’s a Catholic. But fire away anyway.

    Hey Mary,

    ‘The Irish are the blacks of Europe. And Dubliners are the blacks of Ireland. And the Northside Dubliners are the blacks of Dublin. So say it once, say it loud: I’m black and I’m proud.’
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101605/quotes

    g’night all

  638. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    23 Jun, 2013 - 9:37 pm

    @ KingofWelshNoir

    No, of course you’re right : it is an exercise in damage limitation and I’m sure they feel no remorse at all.

    See my original post – which contained just a touch of levity – as a way of welcoming the fact that the Exchequer has at least got something out of them and stands to get some more.

    But I agree that a different, sterner legal framework would be even more welcome.

  639. Happy to cheer up your most pathetic day, Habbabkuk.

    Margaret Thatcher died a most natural death back in April, though she certainly deserved to be assassinated herself after she got MI6 to have Captain Simon Hayward, on leave from the 14th Intelligence Company, kill not only Sweden’s statsminister Olof Palme but also young IRA gun runner Francis Bradley, a warm-up for the Stockholm shooting.

    Then the big earthquake off Costa Rica last September was as natural as one can be after the USS Jimmy Carter not only kicked off the earthquakes which caused the gigantic tsunamis just after Christmas 2004, and the one which caused the tsunami and Fukashima nuclear disaster a couple of years ago. They have made the Pacific plate so unstable that any earthquake around “the ring of fire` is now a partially man-made one.

  640. A Dhreoilin,

    Ní dóigh liom go dtaithneodh an bhreith sin leis, áfach.

    @ Habbabkuk

    Isn’t that comma a real beauty, and oral too.

  641. Oh go and boil your ‘ead Deirdre – xx

  642. Trenton Oldfield is doubly punished by Theresa May.

    Boat Race protester Trenton Oldfield ordered to leave UK
    Australian activist, whose wife is expecting a child this week, will appeal against Home Office ruling that he must leave country

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/23/boat-race-protester-trenton-oldfield-ordered-leave-uk

    I remember his wife speaking out after he was arrested.

    She now appeals for May to reverse her decision.

    This Is Not A Gateway (TINAG)
    PETITION TO STOP THE DEPORTATION OF TRENTON OLDFIELD – Started by Defend the Right to Protest at People’s Assembly – London, UK – 22 June 2013
    http://thisisnotagateway.squarespace.com/petition/

  643. Kibo-Sofia Noh

    23 Jun, 2013 - 10:05 pm

    Just got in after a long lazy day under the sky. Swallows wheeling around in high-speed arcs, leaves sighing in the breeze and lazy whirlpools gurgling past in the wier-pool. Aah! Living don’t get any better than this.

    But wait.

    @Herbie 11 38am

    “Cool, Kibo, cool. It was an attempted coup, and poorly executed.”

    You bet!

    As the old Roman saying goes, “Copy and paste in haste. Look like a right twat at leisure.”

    and

    @Phil 11 51pm

    Thanks. A generous observation.

    As my old mum used to say (fondly), “Who’s the dozy one?”

    Now I find I’m selected to represent the proud and fiercely bloody-minded folk of Anarchia in the Olympic Monumental Cock-up event. I am truly humbled.
    I will serve the team to my utmost.
    ………………………………..

    Meanwhile, the side-story. As our earth slowly wilts, our leaders lie, countless thousands die, and brave men blow the whistle then lead our Lords and Masters in a merry dance across continents.

    ………………………………..

    By the way I’m still awaiting my answer Villager. You owe me big-time. Not only in return for the answers I gave you, but also for making your job so easy today.

    And Habba, don’t tempt me with your limericks.
    You never know “The Ancient Mariner” might be more than an idle threat!

    ………………………………..

    Thanks people for all the links and food for thought. I’m off to explore them and cover my blushes.

  644. What on earth are some of them here on? They know who I mean!

    Hope there is more sanity on this blog tomorrow. Or that Craig returns and posts something new. Hope his heel pain is diminished or cured.

  645. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    23 Jun, 2013 - 10:20 pm

    consigning myself to an Elba of lurking, seems to be an option.

  646. Dreoilin, 8.39pm

    and this gave me a smile this morning

    https://twitter.com/rustleberry/status/348660254843744257

    Yes, a good chuckle but I think Gen. Alexander may be lying (again). Check this out:

    NSA Transcribing Voice 17 Years Ago
    http://rixstep.com/1/20130614,00.shtml

    And, for those who aren’t ungeeks like me, a follow-up article giving the geeky stuff:

    On US Patent 5,937,422 & ‘Semantic Forests’
    http://rixstep.com/2/20130614,00.shtml

  647. You won’t get this news on the bbc, or any of the other medjia:

    A contingent of 57 US military officers arriving in a C130 cargo aricraft, at Hatay province in Turkey along with their communication equipment, after a short R&R have been injected into Syria from Rihanli in the border.

    Well so much for non intervention in Syria, this seems to be the first step in Vietnamisation of the Syria.

  648. An alternative viewpoint, new to me. http://www.whale.to/b/lockerbie2.html

    Brought to you by Cider-flavoured Trebor Blobs.

  649. “(I’m not familiar with the website, so if anyone knows anything against it, please let me know)”

    They talk a load of rubbish.

    There is no law in America regarding cars being hooked to the internet through cellular networks, don’t know where they got that from.

    There have been laws regarding obd ports for some time now but only regarding things like oxygen sensors in the exhaust and stuff, it’s basically anti pollution legislation. The bits that you can have fun with are put there by the manufacturers and the more expensive the car the more fun bits they have and the less secure it is.

  650. Off topic;

    “The British Police are the best in the world” is probably only rivaled by “Our Brave Boys” as reality inversing jingoistic nonsense; this report invokes the same disgust as when the they tried to put Alfie Meadows away for five years for “violent disorder”, being the poor student who was beaten so badly by police that he had to undergo serious brain surgery :

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23022634

  651. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    23 Jun, 2013 - 11:18 pm

    Mary is in headmistressy mood (or mode) :

    “What on earth are some of them here on? They know who I mean!

    Hope there is more sanity on this blog tomorrow”
    ______________

    Lighten up just for once, old thing!

    A little light-hearted repartee, some funny limericks, a few good-natured exchanges, a small break from seriousness – what on earth is wrong with that?

    These – and other things, like your walk thgrough the meadows the other day – are what make me say that
    :)

  652. Doesn’t wash, Hubbu-Clown, not even close; one difference between you & Blair is that he can fake sincerity, but you can’t.

    I notice neither yourself or the Resident Rat have responded to KOWN’s post about “anti-West narrative”, something that the two of you have many times accused people here of.

  653. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 12:05 am

    I’ve seen this happen to blogs. Traffic slows to a walk.

  654. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 1:08 am

    I think he’s a dissident, but will leave that judgement to others.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/23/boat-race-protester-trenton-oldfield-ordered-leave-uk

  655. BrianFujisan

    24 Jun, 2013 - 1:52 am

    Now here’s a Breath of Fresh air. Spoken the Chambers of powers that be

    Leaves the u.s yes men Speechless. They KNOW they are Guilty of ALL her Charges

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QIMucHfUMyg

  656. “…the UN Security Council should be meeting, to discuss the Israeli attacks on Syria. The system of international law has broken down irretrievably.”

    Is it surprising[

    “Tzipi Livni, when serving as Israel’s foreign minister, had declared: “I’m a lawyer – and I’m against the law, international law in particular.”

    Of course there are certain International laws which she would want to keep, especially the ones which are enabling Jews to receive billions in compensation from the Holocaust, however, she wouldn’t want those same International laws extended to the Palestinians as that would mean compensation FROM Israel TO Palestinians but of course that isn’t the same thing, is it !

  657. Barrak Obamas visit to Ireland discussed in Irish Parliament and openly critised for Leading USAs’ foreign policy.

    For those with serious cognitive bias issues, please have you no imagination for your know how?

    http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=CnJCvKA-oEU&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DCnJCvKA-oEU

  658. Flaming June

    24 Jun, 2013 - 7:49 am

    Brian and Jay. Yes I agree that Clare Daly is a breath of fresh air. I did put a link on two days ago saying:

    ‘Three cheers for Clare Daly. Must listen. On the Obama visit to Ireland. She calls him a war criminal. Can you see Bercow allowing similar in our ‘House of Commons’?

    http://xrepublic.tv/node/3893

    Here is the smooth Enda Kenny with the aforementioned war criminal.
    http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Barack_Obama_and_Enda_Kenny_at_Farmleigh.jpg

  659. Flaming June

    24 Jun, 2013 - 7:53 am

    This is for the supporters of the Torah Party as Agent Cameron once referred to the Tory party.

    June 23, 2013

    “Outspoken Israel supporter” gets UK minister post

    Imagine if British Prime Minister David Cameron had appointed a Muslim and self-confessed “outspoken supporter of Palestine” to a ministerial post and then went on to joke that there are so many Muslims in his ruling Conservative Party that it might as well be called “the Party of Muhammad”.

    One doesn’t need to live in the UK to predict with confidence that there would be public outrage, with the media leading the charge.

    Yet this is precisely what has happened, except that no Muslims are involved and there’s not a murmur from the British media.

    /..
    http://www.redressonline.com/2013/06/outspoken-supporter-of-israel-gets-uk-ministerial-post/

  660. Ben Franklin, on Trenton Oldfield, I have to say your are right. He is a dissident. We need more of them in this country. I blogged about his courageous act against privilege last year likening him to Emily Davison.

    “What is more distasteful from my perspective is the lack of competition in the annual university boat-race. There have been no elimination heats. Only two crews compete. It is a final without semi-finals. It is the ultimate in privilege from universities which promote and perpetuate privilege. Which brings me to the Aussie, Trenton Oldfield, currently serving a six months’ prison sentence for bringing last year’s boat race to a halt, at least for a while.”

    http://johngossip.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/sinking-boat-race.html

  661. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 8:22 am

    @ Alec

    “Of course there are certain International laws which she would want to keep, especially the ones which are enabling Jews to receive billions in compensation from the Holocaust,”
    ___________

    On a point of information, do Holocaust reparations flow from international law as I believe most people would define the term – ie, UN sponsored law or international multilateral conventions or agreements to which states are free to adhere (or not) – or from bilateral agreements (an example of the latter being, in the case in point, the bilateral agreement between the FRG and Israel?

  662. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 8:27 am

    @ John Goss (and Ben Franklin)

    Do your comments not again raise the question of the extent to which the legitimate right to dissent and protest encompasses the ‘right’ to disrupt?

    As a side comment, I don’t see the relevance of pointing out that the boat race is a ‘bilateral’ affair between Oxford and Cambridge which by definition does not involves preliminary heats.

  663. Tá gach duine ag labhairt Gaeilge ar an snáithe seo. Hmm Níl mé ádh go leor chun an teanga a labhairt, mar sin beidh mé cheat agus a úsáid Google aistriú. Is mian liom ar maidin maith a Dreoilín agus gach mo chairde na hÉireann :) Agus Hooray do Clare Daly!

  664. Habbabkuk, thanks for pointing Craig’s readers and comment-makers to my blog. I am sure they have the common-sense to agree or disagree without your directive skills, but if you missed it, the relevance is privilege. Imprisoning somebody for protesting against privilege is bad enough, but then trying to get the poor man deported, shows how regressive we have become as a nation. My latest blog might be of interest, since that too mentions the wrongful imprisonment of Professor Noli for taking an anti-fascist stance against the dictator Pinochet.

  665. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 8:58 am

    @ Mary (07h53)

    Your post appears to conflate two seperate points , ie the desirability of one or several members of the Cabinet being self-declared ‘supporters of Israel (or for that matter any other nation or grouping or belief) and the reaction or lack of reaction to any such appointments or presence; the latter point itself consist of two subpoints, ie the lack of reaction to Cameron’s quip and the presence of Jewish ministers on the one hand and the predicted reaction of the UK media were the Cabinet to contain Muslim equivalents to Lord Livingstone.

    On the first, it’s certainly proper that the facts should be known and they usually are: this is the case with Lord Livingstone and the other friends of Israel from whichever political party. I’m not sure however that the mere fact that someone is a supporter of another state should be enough to disbar him or her from public office or membership of the Cabinet; the real question is whether or not such support can be held as likely to divert the govt from its primary responsibility of upholding the interests of the state.

    On the second, well, perhaps the media simply don’t think it’s much of a story. After all, the presence of people of the Jewish faith in the upper reaches of UK government is hardly a new phenomenon (and btw might have given rise to negative comment in the past when the phenomenon was newer), whereas the presence of Muslims is/would be. On the second sub-point, you may well be right, but the fact remains that you are hypothesising as the case has not arisen. On such evidence as is available, however – Keith Vaz, Baroness Warsi (Muslims both, but slender evidence, I’ll admit)- I don’t recall any negative comment.

  666. Flaming June

    24 Jun, 2013 - 8:58 am

    The ‘profile’ of the tweeter says it all.

    Steven Rattner @SteveRattner

    Former head of Obama Auto Task Force. Wall Street financier. Contributing Writer to NY Times Op-ED. Morning Joe Economic Analyst.

    New York · stevenrattner.com

    ‏@SteveRattner 17h
    @ggreenwald is an advocate, not a journalist. Snowden is a criminal, not a whistleblower

  667. Flaming June

    24 Jun, 2013 - 9:07 am

    My word. That was a fast response to my Torah party post from Redress. Hasbara calling.

    The author was describing the make up of a political party of the United Kingdom, based in London, not the Knesset based in Jerusalem.

    Union with evil is rewarded.

  668. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 9:10 am

    @ John Goss

    That was a quick reply!

    Is that what the man was protesting about – priviledge?

    If so, what is priviledged about the Oxford-Cambridge boat race? The event is exclusive (in that it is between two univerities and two only), but does exclusiveness always equate with priviledge?

    In any case, I think that my question about the extent to which protest and dissent can or should include the ‘right’ to disrupt has remained unanswered.

    Re. deportation, yes that might well be seen as excessive punishment. But perhaps the state – as all states – see giving foreigners the right of abode on its territory as a priviledge, abuse of which renders the offender liable to having his priviledge withdrawn.

  669. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 9:13 am

    @ Flaming June

    “The author was describing the make up of a political party of the United Kingdom, based in London, not the Knesset based in Jerusalem.”
    ________

    I think my reply to your first post makes it clear that I understood that.

    Do feel free to respond to my points in a more substantive manner if you feel up to it.

  670. Lord Livingston of split loyalties, minister for the United Kingdom of Israel, unelected and without a mandate he should do well with his little helpers represented in every political party presently available to those few dependants and party addicts who still vote.

    Vorwaerts mit den vereinigten British isles of Israel.
    Yom Tov to you all.

  671. For those of you who have not clicked on the links provided above and enjoyed the deep joy of Clare Daly in the Irish Parliament, I submit the following transcription of the highlight of a barnstorming speech:

    …but is it not a reality that you have showcased us as a nation of pimps prostituting ourselves in return for a pat on the head? To be honest with you, we were really speculating this morning whether you were going to deck the cabinet out in leprechaun hats decorated with a bit of Stars and Stripes to really mark abject humiliation here…

  672. Flaming June

    24 Jun, 2013 - 9:27 am

    The disgusting attempt to smear the Lawrence family took place in 1993 and onwards. The Prime Minister at the time was John Major and the Chief Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police was Paul Condon from 1993 – 2000.

    Did Condon know about it and sanction it? Most probably.

    Will the investigation that Cameron has ‘demanded’ reveal any truths? Probably not.

    Condon is deputy chairman of G4S according to Wikipedia but not on his register of interests. Perhaps he got out after the Limp Ics debacle.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Condon,_Baron_Condon

    http://www.parliament.uk/biographies/lords/lord-condon/2171

    Lawrence police smear claims: Cameron demands investigation
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23026324

  673. Flaming June

    24 Jun, 2013 - 9:31 am

    The spelling police will be after the chief troll. Separate not separate and privilege not priviledge AFAIK.

  674. Flaming June

    24 Jun, 2013 - 9:34 am

    Oops separate and not seperate

  675. Whenever certain commentators become particularly active, I always have a look to see what’s going on in the former British Mandate territory, now occupied by a demented theocracy…

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23025865

    Nothing changes, does it?

    Oh,and Ian Livingston – thanks, Mary. There’s Cameron telling us how terribly strict he wants to be with tax evaders, and there’s Livingston….

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ian-livingston-new-fatcat-trade-1977086

    As ex-CEO of BT, he may have been completely unaware of BT’s partnership with Bezeq.

    British Telecom is partner to Israeli company Bezeq through the BT Alliance. Bezeq owns over 200 mobile phone coverage antenna (sic) for settlements throughout the West Bank. Through its subsidiary company Pelephone, Bezeq provides cellular and landline coverage to the army, check points and settlers through theoccupied Palestinian territories.
    http://www.quaker.org.uk/files/Trade-with-Israeli-settlements-Updated-April-2013.pdf

    But I doubt it.

  676. Habbabkuk, as you have been more polite towards me recently I will answer your question.

    If somebody breaks into RAF Waddington and smashes up the computers and electronic equipment that direct drones on behalf of the murderous USA, it is a criminal act of sabotage. It is also a highly moral act in that it stops people being unnecessarily killed. Sometimes morality is more important than the law. So the answer is yes. In certain circumstances it is moral to oppose the law and if disruption brings attention to a cause all the better.

    65% of Guardian readership thinks that the Home Office is wrong in trying to have him deported. If he was a Muslim they would want him rendered, tortured and indefinitely imprisoned.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/poll/2013/jun/24/trenton-oldfield-boat-race-protest-visa

  677. Off topic but topical:

    Wimbledon tennis upon us again if you have £800 (cheapest) you can get a seat inside.

    “Andy Murray hopes his success has helped the healing in Dunblane, his home town, after a shooting 17 years ago”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/

    16 children and one teacher massacred but never mind – Andy Murray has been a success!

    What a prat.

  678. “Brian and Jay. Yes I agree that Clare Daly is a breath of fresh air.”

    I don’t think so.

    http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2012/09/daly-s17.html

    http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2012/06/irel-j21.html

  679. The Scourge a buffon as ever as I see.

    I’m off to Wimbers next week and got my tickets for a reasonable £70. Tickets for this week were available for less than £50, but hey, you’re never one to let the facts get in the way of a misinformed rant.

  680. John Goss 24 Jun, 2013 – 10:12 am
    “65% of Guardian readership thinks that the Home Office is wrong in trying to have him deported”

    It is shocking that, apparently, 35% of the readers who voted do agree with his deportation.

    Perhaps it is an indication of how illiberal the guardian and it’s readership has become. Or perhaps it’s down to the ip switching software used by the propagandist trolls. Some of the guardian comments are so idiotic they could have been written by Havakak or Villager (may their souls rot in the dark).

  681. On the dog walk I was thinking up titles for the new Lord Livingston when he dons his ermine.

    Lord Livingston of Lod or Lydda (aka Ben Gurion airport) perhaps?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lod

    The crowing piece in the Times of Israel that prompted the Redress piece.

    Surprise new UK trade minister is committed Jew, thinks Israel’s ‘amazing’
    Ian Livingston, who revived telecom giant BT, handpicked by Cameron for unpaid ministerial position, seat in House of Lords

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/surprise-new-uk-trade-minister-is-committed-jew-thinks-israels-amazing/

    The Times of Israel, an oeuvre of UK born and Israel based David Horovitz and funded by US citizen Seth Klarman.
    http://www.timesofisrael.com/about/

  682. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 10:59 am

    @ Phil

    “..they could have been written by Havakak or Villager (may their souls rot in the dark).”
    _________

    You mean like the people rotting away in Gitmo, like?

    Chump!

  683. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 11:02 am

    @ Flaming June

    “On the dog walk I was thinking up titles for the new Lord Livingston when he dons his ermine.

    Lord Livingston of Lod or Lydda (aka Ben Gurion airport) perhaps?”
    ____________

    You mean like Viscounts Montgomery of Alamein and Alexander of Tunis?

  684. I bet they are going for the brother.

    24 June 2013 Last updated at 11:02
    .Man arrested in Surrey over Annecy family murder
    Breaking news
    A 54-year-old man has been arrested in Surrey in connection with the murders of four people in the French Alps last year.

    Saad al-Hilli and his wife Iqbal, from Claygate, Surrey, her mother Suhaila al-Allaf and French cyclist Sylvain Mollier were shot on 5 September.

  685. Monty and Alexander were given battle honours in a defensive war.

    Only someone from Irgun or Haganah could receive an Israeli battle honour for Lod/Lydda, in an offensive war.

    viz.

    The Israel Defense Forces entered Lydda on July 11, 1948. The following day, under the impression that it was under attack,[35] the 3rd Battalion was ordered to shoot anyone “seen on the streets.” According to Israel, 250 Arabs (men, women, and children) were killed. Other estimates are higher: Arab historian Aref al Aref estimated 400, and Nimr al Khatib 1700.[36][37]

    State of Israel[edit]

    Lydda, 1948
    During 1948, the population rose to 50,000 people as Arab refugees fleeing other areas made their way there.[31] All but 700[38] to 1,056[4] were expelled by order of the Israeli high command, and forced to walk 17 kilometers to Arab Legion lines on one of the hottest days of the year. Many died from exhaustion and dehydration; estimates vary from a handful to 355.[39][40] The town was subsequently sacked by the Israeli army.[41] The few hundred Arabs who remained in the city were not permitted to live in their own homes.[42] They were soon outnumbered by the influx of Jewish immigrants who moved into the town from August 1948 onwards, most from Arab countries.[4] as a result of which Lydda became a predominantly Jewish town.[33][43].

    What cruel bastards.

    ~~

    Off out to escape the ZBC production of the Rolex All England Lawn Tennis Association championships, prize money £1.6 million each to the men’s and women’s singles winners. Austerity GB.

    The military will be there too acting as stewards and we will probably hear about Help the Heroes as in previous years.

  686. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 11:22 am

    @ John Goss

    And I’m replying to you because, as I’ve already said once, you’re a handsome chap :)

    (cue for Mary to question my sexuality :) )

    There are certainly cases where morality should prevail over the rule of law. Hitlerian Germany – after a certain point – would be a good example.

    But this is also a question of degree, isn’t it. The example you gave raises the question of degree; and why stop at RAF Waddington because it is connected with drones, why not justify criminal sabotage against any military installation?

    Along the same train of thought, surely you are not suggesting that that the Boat Race (whether an example of privilege or not) even remotely raises issues of the rule of law v. morality which justify its disruption?

  687. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 11:27 am

    @ The Scourge

    “£800 minimum”.

    Do check your facts before sounding off and thereby avoid appearing a chump.

    I think you should thank The CE for bringing you up to date.

  688. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 11:31 am

    @ Nevermind

    “Lord Livingston of split loyalties, minister for the United Kingdom of Israel, unelected and without a mandate he should do well with his little helpers represented in every political party presently available to those few dependants and party addicts who still vote.

    Vorwaerts mit den vereinigten British isles of Israel.
    Yom Tov to you all.”
    ______________

    That was a very, very silly post even by your high standards.

  689. If a chap can’t have a swim in the Thames without being nearly run over by a bunch of rich oiks in a rowing boat, and then deported, what have we come to?

    Cue minelayer.

  690. we were really speculating this morning whether you were going to deck the cabinet out in leprechaun hats decorated with a bit of Stars and Stripes

    Is there a leak enquiry initiated to find the traitor who spilt the beans on Enda’s surprise party for Obamas?

    ############

    On the dog walk I was thinking up titles for the new Lord Livingston when he dons his ermine.

    The other occupied territories (the cabinet office, in Number 10) would probably agree with: Lord Livingston of Lod or Lydda (aka Ben Gurion airport) perhaps?

    The simple fact is the shameless carpetbaggers are so brazen about their loyalties, and in fact take pride in paying fealty to the “the most amazing state in the world”. (shitty little strip of land, and experiment in owning a state by the Roth….. (cannot mention the name for the fear of committing a trope) to the rest of the world, ie anywhere outside US, UK and toadies ruled places on Earth ).

    ##########

    The undercover cop coming clean about the smear campaign of Lawrence family, talks about trying to frame them as “political activists”. Clearly the establishment views “political activists” as undesirables, like; Muslims, Mad, etc. …..

  691. Yours was a very, very unnecessary post by any standards at all, Hubba. Attempting to match the spirit of the thing -

    I see tomorrow is the fast of Tzom Tammuz, which bewails the destruction of the First Temple by Nebuchadnezzar. And the Second Temple by the Romans. And other stuff germane to the concept of the Jews as the righteous victims of unjust persecution throughout recorded time.

    You’re allowed to wash, which can’t be bad, and wear leather. Whatever turns you on. But it’s also your opportunity for sober contemplation of what it is you have become, and to shed a tear for your victimhood, if not your victims.

    Enjoy.

  692. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 11:49 am

    @ Mary – to round off on Viscounts Alexander and Montgomery :

    I don’t think Mary was making an entirely serious point and I replied a little in the same vein.

    However, my response did allow Mary too drag in a reference to Lydda.

    Is it perhaps worth pointing out that Lydda is hardly relevant to subsequent and on-going Israeli actions in Palestine? Lydda took place against a very recent and very violent background in which millions of people, military and civilian, were killed in action, massacred and otherwise done to death – in which I include the vast and forced population movements and transfers which occurred at the end of the war. None of which furnish an excuse but they do furnish a context. And is it perhaps also worth recalling who started the war in Palestine?

  693. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 11:51 am

    @ Komodo

    I note that you seem much more conversant with Jewish practice and commemoration than I am…..which is interesting and perhaps even significant.

  694. cabaret, dear boy, sheer cabaret.

  695. I note that you seem much more conversant with Jewish practice and commemoration than I am…..which is interesting and perhaps even significant.

    Your response is the expected one. And your momma should be ashamed, a nice boy like you ignorant of the festivals!

  696. I see that stuff is really going to fly this week with Senator Shumer talking about what ally Russia owes the States in the Snowden case, and Surrey snoops finally going after Ziad al-Hilli for conspiring to murdee his brother Saad et al.

    Of course, this is the same Russia which was set up in the Manhattan 11 case where sleeping, most naive CIA sources were made out to look like Putin’s goons, and one of the ffitters, MI8/GCHQ agent Gareth Wiliams was horribly murdered when he started to flee to Moscow.

    And who did Ziad’s dirty work around ale Lake Annecy, only to stop killing the al-Hilli kids after having killed cyclist Sylvain Mollier?

    Looks more like defenders of Anglo-American spooks pulling out all the stops when the shite really starts flying.

  697. ‘And who did Ziad’s dirty work around ale Lake Annecy, only to stop killing the al-Hilli kids after having killed cyclist Sylvain Mollier?’

    Presumably, as the charge is ‘conspiracy to murder’ , the plods have established some sort of connection between the brother and the alleged shooter or shooters; guess we’ll have to wait for the trial.

    Re the Flight of the Snowden,the impotent discomfiture of the US at his escape from extradition has echoes of the pathetic rage the Old Right in the UK directed at Uncle Sam after Suez. In both cases harsh geopolitical realities rendered the UK in ’56 , and the US today, helpless spectators as the respective farces unravelled.

  698. Woman-abusing, racist-protecting firebomber honoured by queen and still employed by university. The bristling badger asks what does it take to tarnish a copper?

    http://bristlingbadger.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/protectors-of-racist-murderers.html

    Sometimes you have to begrudgingly hand it to the guardian & c4. This is excellent reporting.

  699. Now Snowden has not gone to Cuba on an Aeroflot flight.

    Moscow is apparently holding him back.

    Will Snowden now spill the beans about NSA’s Special Collection Service killing whistleblowers from Gareth Williams to Major General John Wheeler Iii?

    Or will he keep his mouth shut, and let the American lynch mob get him?

    Looks like we are going to have the biggest spy fight ever!

  700. Blegburnduddoo

    24 Jun, 2013 - 2:03 pm

    Re Flight of the Snowden. No doubt the Russians will be mindful of the possibility of the US shooting down a passenger aircraft. The US have form in that regard.

  701. Yes Mary indeed – we exist in a cruel world. The scales have been at equilibrium for too long. Veracious strength will enhance the power of intention required to honor the deserving. Our thoughts must empower empathy, mercy and compassion.

    All six of Syria’s world heritage sties have been put on an endangered list by the UN’s cultural organisation amid mounting international concern about the country’s increasingly destructive civil war.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/21/syria-heritage-danger-list

  702. He’s on the flight on someone else’s ticket, with a false nose and moustache.
    He’s decided to get the next flight to Iceland instead.
    The FSA want to know what else he knows: he’s in the Lubianka.
    He was never in Moscow in the first place. Or Hong Kong.
    He’s planning to walk to France and contact the Resistance.

    That demned elusive Pimpernel…

  703. coup de disgrâce

    24 Jun, 2013 - 2:16 pm

    Snowden is a star but he’s obviously getting world-class help: rhetorical, legal, and geopolitical. Some of it is coming from the outside world. Some of it is coming from inside. When you’re mobilizing shame against a rogue state, there’s only so much that NGOs like Wikileaks can do. NGOs depend on supranational institutions and on coordinated action by states. Look at the precursors: UN special procedures; demarches by victims of US aggression; intelligence actions aimed not at discreet national advantage but at exposure. Snowden is just the mediagenic centerpiece of a cascade of leaks. TWA 800 is back. 9/11 is about to bob up to the surface. Sibel Edmonds is sitting safe at home ticking like a bomb. The world is going to explode the biggest of Big Lies, “It’s a free country.” Americans are going to see the US as it is.

    Welcome to weaponized disgrace.

  704. I heard on the radio (had no internet all morning) that Snowden never landed in Moscow. So was that all a diversion??

    @Rose, I’m very sorry for calling you Ruth. I have no idea why I did that, except that we’ve had a Ruth here before. (And ‘Deirdre’ – I like it!)

    @KingofWelshNoir

    Buíochas as do theachtaireacht. Maith thú! Dymuniadau gorau i chi :)

    @someone

    Yes, all that stuff about Clare Daly and Wallace is correct. An odd pairing that has raised eyebrows. But I don’t think any of it takes from what she said about Enda and the Obamas. “whether you were going to deck the cabinet out in leprechaun hats decorated with a bit of Stars and Stripes to really mark abject humiliation here…”

    There was a poll at http://www.thejournal.ie/ (a site I don’t like) asking if there was too much slobbering over the Obamas, and 47% said Yes. The remainder was split between Nos and Don’t Knows. It gave me a little hope, but I have no idea how many took part in the poll.

    @Fred

    I take it you’ve read this?

    http://www.autosec.org/pubs/cars-oakland2010.pdf

    I saw nothing there about a law in America regarding cars being hooked to the internet through cellular networks. Could you enlighten me please and point to it?

    As you said yourself, “the more expensive the car the more fun bits they have and the less secure it is” — which would seem to tie in fine with the video Jives posted, of a car being controlled with an iPhone.

    I find the whole thing very creepy.

    Sorry, can’t catch up on anything else. I’ve been disconnected for hours and have loads to do now.

  705. He’s on the flight on someone else’s ticket, with a false nose and moustache.

    Is Snowden a mossad operative?

    If Putin wants to kick the US butt, he would welcome his new guest.

    The Western media will fall short as credible sources of news on this story, best to keep an eye out for the foreign media and their output.

  706. Is this what you were referring to, Fred?

    “But few people know about the Federal mandate which in 2005 forced manufacturers to include a similar always on internet connection via the cell network in EVERY car sold in America, Onstar or not.
    And this team of hackers has proven that a remote connection can indeed allow commandeering of these cars (in their case they used a remote controlled laptop plugged into the OBD port rather than the cell connection) that could be used to turn the car into a murder weapon.”
    http://www.jimstonefreelance.com/carhack.html

    It’s not in the .pdf that I can see. But I would have thought that there is enough in the .pdf to raise concerns.

    gone – for now

  707. Oh there’s a senior US intelligence “asset” on the run and he’s having trouble, or so it seems, leaving Moscow. Well what a surprise; of course there’s no possibility that the FSB would be interested in subjecting the guy to an extensive “de-briefing” is there?

    Don’t be surprised if he’s there a while longer.

  708. “I take it you’ve read this?”

    Didn’t have time, too busy working out how to bit bang a rs232 port to do a 5 baud kw1281 initialisation.

  709. Apparently Snowden is *not* on a plane to Cuba from Moscow. Can’t say I’m surprised.

    But he could have just flown to Mexico on holiday, as lots of Americans do, and thence to anywhere in South America. Don’t you think it’s a bit strange, his giving the whole world a blow-by-blow account of his movements?

  710. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 3:58 pm

    Round-up (this thread is becoming fun!). With some levity:

    @ Dreoilin – you did’t mention me, I feel quite hurt :)
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    @Mark Golding:

    “Yes Mary indeed – we exist in a cruel world. The scales have been at equilibrium for too long. Veracious strength will enhance the power of intention required to honor the deserving. Our thoughts must empower empathy, mercy and compassion.”

    Woffly piffle – almost incomprehensible.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    @ Blegburnduddoo:

    “Re Flight of the Snowden. No doubt the Russians will be mindful of the possibility of the US shooting down a passenger aircraft. The US have form in that regard.”

    As indeed do the Russkies (Korean airliner, anyone?)
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    @ Komodo

    “It’s Tough at the Top, part 94

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2346811/Nigella-Lawsons-clothes-delivered-Mayfair-flat-prepares-second-week-away-Charles-Saatchi.html

    Wonder if she’s paying bedroom tax on that?”

    I can put your mind at ease on that one, Komodo, and you won’t sweat at night anymore : as far as I know, Nigella is not living, wholly or partially, on state benefits.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~

    @Komodo:

    “Your response is the expected one.”

    Of course! You are, after all, a mind-reader and pyschic. Keep your crystal ball polished!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    @ Nevermind:

    “cabaret, dear boy, sheer cabaret.”

    But of course. Are you by any chance related to the laste Christopher Isherwood? You know, the guy known to his Berlin landlady as “Herr Ischyvoo”?

  711. Flaming June

    24 Jun, 2013 - 4:01 pm

    The good ex MP for Battersea, Martin Linton, keeps an interesting blog.

    He writes here on an answer Hague gave on settlements.

    June 24, 2013

    Hague rules out action on settlements
    Dummies on question about legality of trade ban
    Calls on Abbas to join talks “without preconditions”
    “Lamentable lack” of action on children

    FCO questions Tuesday June 18th

    William Hague again ruled out taking Government action against trade with illegal Israeli settlements and refused even to say whether he believed the Government had the powers (under EU and GATT trade rules) to ban trade with illegal settlements.

    He also repeated his request to the Palestinians “to enter negotiations without pre-conditions” which would mean starting talks while the Israelis are still building illegal settlements on Palestinian-owned land.

    /..
    http://martinlinton.org/2013/06/24/hague-rules-out-action-on-settlements/

    The Hansard link
    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmhansrd/cm110614/debtext/110614-0001.htm

  712. Flaming June

    24 Jun, 2013 - 4:08 pm

    Not only minor slebs and characters from the court of P William and Kate, (Pippa ‘I’m in a social whirl’ Middleton and her brother) but war criminals too at Wimbledon.

    Condoleeza Rice was seated in the ‘Royal Box’ behind Princess Pushy and two seats away from Pippa.

    Pippa works so hard for her country. She wears expensive frocks, hats and shoes so keeps many employed in the rag trade, goes to lots of weddings, plays tennis and watches a lot of tennis. Oh and she writes piffle for Waitrose.

    The Rolex gold clock was prominent and the military stewards kept everyone safe. Isn’t England wonderful!

  713. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 4:13 pm

    psychic

  714. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 4:16 pm

    @ Mary

    “Isn’t England wonderful!”
    ______

    Compared to a heck of a lot of other countries, yes.

    **************

    La vita è bella, life is good (Oh! to be in England now…etc)

  715. Flaming June

    24 Jun, 2013 - 4:19 pm

    Sonja Karkar who runs the Australians for Palestine website, has had her e-mail system corrupted. Now who would do something like that?

    Dear Supporters,

    I apologise for not following up on the Australia-Israel joint issue stamps campaign. Since Friday, I have been trying to get my corrupted email client rebuilt and have found out today from a Mac technician that the best I could hope for was to retrieve my files to the last backup which was on 21 April 2013. That’s now been done, but I have lost every email from that time until now – 2 whole months’ worth. Most upsetting is the loss of emails re the “joint issue” stamps, particularly because many of you wrote letters and made various enquiries to which I was unable to respond.

    I’d be very grateful if you could re-send any emails that you have sent to me over that time. Not only would I like to respond if I haven’t yet done so, but also I do like to keep copies of emails relating to any of our campaigns.

    Your help would be really appreciated.

    Warm regards,
    Sonja

    Sonja Karkar
    Co-founder & editor
    http://australiansforpalestine.com

    The joint Australia/Israel stamp affair.
    http://www.australiansforpalestine.net/81892

    She has also put up the video of the winning singer from Gaza in the Pan Arab Idol competition. He is so pleasing and also very handsome.

    Raise your keffieh
    http://www.australiansforpalestine.net/82037

  716. Flaming June

    24 Jun, 2013 - 4:20 pm

    The chief troll does not get irony.

  717. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 4:21 pm

    @ Mary :

    “The Rolex gold clock was prominent” (on Pippa Middleton’s wrist)
    _________

    Well spotted. In the book of many, recognising a Rolex is almost as evil as possessing one.

    Seriously, what do you have against Rolexes? Wonderful watches! Never had one that kept time!

    ***********

    La vita ! bella, life is good (buy Vacherin-Constantin)

  718. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 4:22 pm

    Ah, Mary, in this imperfect world there is a place for irony…and for fact.

  719. The home secretary resists calls for a public inquiry and asks that anyone with information about police wrongdoing reports to…the police. But don’t worry because all the wrongdoing was by one, now disbanded, rogue unit.

  720. Russia studying US extradition request for NSA leaker: Report

    Kerry criticizes Russia, China for helping Snowden

    U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry has said there would be “consequences” for Russia and China if they helped whistleblower Edward Snowden in boarding a plane to Moscow in an attempt to reach a third country.

    ##############

    Former Italian PM Berlusconi gets seven yrs in jail over sex scandal

  721. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 4:56 pm

    ” Don’t you think it’s a bit strange, his giving the whole world a blow-by-blow account of his movements?”

    Yes. It’s like a white bronco, only International in nature. So far, no knife fight.

  722. Interestingly or not Aeroflot flight AFL150 from Moscow to Havana disappeared off flight trackers just off the coast of Norway. RT Moscow reported that while Snowden cannot be seen on board, cars thought to belong to Ecuador were seen on the runway and he could be in a crew area. Estimated flight position about the tip of Geeenland right now. Only Aeroflot transponder remotely in the area is Aeroflot flight AF102 to New York which took off after AF150 to Cuba.

  723. “Former Italian PM Berlusconi gets seven yrs in jail over sex scandal”

    Except he passed a law that no one over 70 years of age can be sent to jail. House arrest only. Not bad if you have a big house.

  724. And just as I posted it reappears. Just behind UAE241 to Toronto.

  725. Wikileaks refuses to say where Snowden is, other than “in a safe place”. (Go Julian!)

    The Guardian says there is no evidence he was ever in Russia.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/24/edward-snowden-booked-on-plane-from-moscow-to-havana-live-coverage

    • Farcical scene as Snowden apparently misses Cuba flight
    • Ecuador: processing Snowden’s asylum request
    • WikiLeaks’ Julian Assange says he knows where Snowden is
    • Washington fury at Hong Kong’s decision to let him go

    “busy working out how to bit bang a rs232 port to do a 5 baud kw1281 initialisation”

    Ahh, tricky

    And a mention for Habbabkuk: Buona giornata!

  726. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 5:25 pm

    A lot speculation why he would choose this routing. Suspicions abound; ‘Why Russia, Cuba, China”?

    Because they are the least likely to hand him over to the Federales.

  727. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 5:30 pm

    @ Dreoilin

    Grazie, carina! :)

  728. “Wikileaks refuses to say where Snowden is, other than “in a safe place”. (Go Julian!)

    The Guardian says there is no evidence he was ever in Russia.
    ——
    Good to see you back Dreolin. Two thoughts did occur to me:

    In this day and age of phone-cameras, it is surprising that not a single pic of Snowden has been seen from his suggested trip from Hong kong to Moscow, and

    With all the State-muscle supporting Snowden, why would he risk taking an ordinary commercial flight?

  729. A lot speculation why he would choose this routing. Suspicions abound; ‘Why Russia, Cuba, China”?

    Because they are the least likely to hand him over to the Federales.

    Quite so, Ben,and, apart from the descent to Havana, which skirts dangerously near Miami, it avoids airspace controlled by the US.

  730. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 5:43 pm

    I read with considerable interest that the late Al-Hilili’s brother has been arrested for conspiracy to murder. Further arrest cannot be ruled out.

    Now we must obviously wait and see if he is brought to trial and of so, for the verdict.

    Nonetheless, should it turn out that he is found guilty, I must confess that I look forward with unalloyed pleasure to the sight of so many people – including some of the most eminent of the Eminences on this blog (how many posts on the threads? :) – having to eat humble pie, crow and their hats. And I hope they choke while doing so.

    Furthermore, I am confident that all those who ascribed the killings to the evil Mossad/CIA/MI6/French intelligence services will have the good grace to publically confess on this blog that they were completely on the wrong track.

    The self-appointed “experts” in ballistics, psychology, forensic medicine and the patterns of car tyres on grass and mud would also be shown up to be what they are – self-important, obsessive blowhards.

    I’ll be watching and waiting, le moment venu!

    PS – surprisingly little posted about this on here so far, and this on a blog where it’s headline news (are you listening, Mary?) when Poppa Middleton farts in public.

  731. OldMark,

    The flight is currently heading directly for Canadian and then US airspace where it looks like it will spend many hours overflying the USA based on current flight path.

    Live tracking at

    http://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/AFL150/history/20130624/1005Z/UUEE/MUHA

    http://www.flightradar24.com/AFL150

  732. Macky says,

    “Doesn’t wash, Hubbu-Clown, not even close; one difference between you & Blair is that he can fake sincerity, but you can’t.”

    Don’t be utterly daft. Nobody can judge sincerity from written words. You need facial expressions, body language, tone of voice. You’re blathering.

    “Interestingly or not Aeroflot flight AFL150 from Moscow to Havana disappeared off flight trackers just off the coast of Norway.”

    I tracked a flight once. My eldest son was travelling diagonally across Australia, south east to north west, and on elsewhere. In the middle of the sea north of Australia, the flight disappeared. It stayed disappeared for a long time, hours, during which I nearly had a heart attack. I had a text message from my son saying he had arrived safely, and meanwhile the flight never reappeared on the flight tracker. It never showed up as landed – or otherwise. I’ll never do that again.

  733. That’s a lot more flight path over the USA than the flight path shown on RT earlier. Almost looks like they have chosen to overfly more of the USA than normal. Of course they could still change course yet if they have enough fuel. Very embarrassing for the USA if they force it to land and he is not hidden on-board.

  734. I’ve just looked at the Al-Hilli thread. Wow. It’s like discovering a huge crazy eco system going on in the kid’s bedroom. I’d heard some gossip but the reality is something else. I recall it has had a death (Anders). Has there been any babies I should know about?

    The sheer volume of comments is working wonders for this blogs google position. Even with it being a news story today Craig’s blog is above the Sun (on page two) for the search term “al-hillis”. Nice.

    http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=al-hillis

    And position number two for “al hillis spy”!

    http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Al+Hillis+spy

    Congratulations you crazy kids.

  735. Dreoilin,

    It is always worth double checking with the arrivals web page at the destination airport to avoid that sort of panic. Sometimes the coverage is sporadic especially in more remote areas.

    Was watching some Afghanistan report recently when someone interviewed said the CIA flew them for talks in a plane with blacked out windows to a secret destination. Only trouble was the screens on the seatbacks displayed the plane’s position all the way from takeoff to landing. Much to the amusement of all behind the blacked out windows.

  736. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 5:57 pm

    The flight path is right over Iceland. Parachutes, anyone?. One thing is for sure; the shell-game of his whereabouts is a rope-a-dope.

  737. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 6:01 pm

    Dreoilin; If a plane shuts off the transponders, it disappears. Not that I’m saying your son’s flight was an instance. Radio interference? Nevertheless, tracking a flight needs the transponder working. Could be a tactic for Snowdens ride.

  738. Ben,

    it flew north of Iceland. So far north that it was out of range of the transponder ground receivers used by the flight trackers.

    Just entered Canadian airspace now.

  739. Thanks, Anon. I think I did check the destination airport, but it was a small place and all arrivals weren’t listed, like they would be in Dublin or London. I know I did something more than watch the tracker. But it was a while ago.

    Good one about the blacked out windows!

    @Villager,
    “With all the State-muscle supporting Snowden, why would he risk taking an ordinary commercial flight?”

    Indeed. Some guy had a private plane waiting I think (saw a mention on Twitter) but it wasn’t used. Unless it WAS used, and we haven’t heard about it. And he has a bit of an entourage, with a Wikileaks person and a couple more, so there’s a group of them. OR, maybe they’re decoys and he’s travelling alone. Who knows. I hope he gets away!

  740. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 6:13 pm

    Thanks Anon.

    FFS ! The flight path is right over the Eastern seaboard. The US, feckless as they’ve been surely see that.

    Imagine the reaction should military force an Aeroflot down

  741. Thanks Ben. I never found out what happened about the tracking of that plane. Maybe radio interference as you say. Or transponder off. But once he had checked in with me, I pretty much forgot about it.

  742. Phil
    24 Jun, 2013 – 5:52 pm
    “I’ve just looked at the Al-Hilli thread. Wow. It’s like discovering a huge crazy eco system going on in the kid’s bedroom. I’d heard some gossip but the reality is something else. I recall it has had a death (Anders). Has there been any babies I should know about?”

    A few toady-little green tadpoles yes, babies, no.

  743. Yes Ben, and there’s a ready made space for Snowden to hide in. On the current flight path it looks like someone is tempting Obama to order it intercepted…

    http://www.airbus.com/aircraftfamilies/passengeraircraft/a330family/a330-200/

    Long-range crew accommodations

    For long-distance operations, the A330-200 can be fitted with innovative crew rest areas. A secure rest facility for pilots with one or two bunks is designed to be located next to the cockpit for easy, rapid access. A mobile rest area for cabin crews can be installed in the aircraft’s lower-deck aft cargo hold and accessed by a stair from the main cabin – thereby eliminating any impact on passenger seating. Based on a 96 X 125-inch pallet, this cabin crew facility can have up to seven bunks and be removed in 50 minutes for shorter flight operations not requiring crew rest accommodations.

  744. Flaming June

    24 Jun, 2013 - 6:30 pm

    Chief troll

    There is a gold Rolex clock prominently placed on the scoreboard wall so that when the camera is focused on the server, the clock is in view.

    Even Pippa has enough sense not to wear a clock on her wrist.

    You are being as silly as ever.

  745. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 6:31 pm

    Anon;

    ” it looks like someone is tempting Obama to order it intercepted…”

    It would be incredibly unwise, and unlike this timid and cautious POTUS to order it.

    But then, he’s just a figurehead, and not in control of his Junta.

  746. Flaming June

    24 Jun, 2013 - 6:35 pm

    I am sure we are going to be told all the facts!

    The Police’s Dirty Secret, Dispatches tonight on C4, 8pm

    Dispatches exposes the shocking story of Britain’s secret police and how undercover officers reportedly used sex and lies to spy on members of the public.

    The programme reveals the names of high-profile targets spied on by the police.

    Through the personal testimony of a whistleblower who operated deep undercover for four years, the film examines the ethically dubious tactics of a clandestine unit within the Metropolitan police.

    Tasked with infiltrating political campaigns and protest groups, it operated under the unofficial motto ‘By any means necessary’.

    The programme speaks exclusively to the women who say their lives have been wrecked after being spied upon; and who reveal how they were duped into sexual relationships with men they didn’t even know were cops.

    One of the women reveals the heart-wrenching story of how she was also deceived into having a child with a police spy.

  747. Flaming June

    24 Jun, 2013 - 6:38 pm

    5:41pm UK, Monday 24 June 2013

    Fugitive whistleblower Edward Snowden is healthy and safe, says WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, but he refused to reveal his whereabouts.

    Assange confirmed the former CIA intelligence analyst has applied for asylum in Ecuador, Iceland, and possibly other countries.

    He said he knew where Snowden was, describing it as a “safe place”. However, he would not give any other details.

    /..

    http://news.sky.com/story/1107567/whistleblower-snowden-healthy-and-safe

  748. Mary and Habbabkuk, just a plea from me (“and who am I, for I know nothing…”, as the guru in ‘Head’ said) to maybe have a truce or something between the two of you. I mean, commenting and disagreeing on this or that is super, but this kind of tennis, tit-for-tat, thing just attacking each other’s characters or whatever, has run its course, I think. Please don’t take this the wrong way. It’s just that it’s come to run thorugh, and may to begin to dominate, every thread. It’s not my blog, though.

    Might it be best simply to say (silently, to oneself), ‘Look, I think that poster is a twerp, and so I’m going to ignore them and just stick to commenting on the subject matter, regardless of who is presenting it’? I think both of you have made the core points about each other’s poster-personas. We get it. Thank you.

    Now, hit me with your rhythm sticks!

  749. thank you Suhayl, you have earned a cup of the best Assam, just under one minute, no squeezing of the tea bag. Enjoy!

  750. Thanks, Nevermind! You make an excellent brew!

  751. Exactly, Dreolin, who knows. There is clearly a spy vs spy game on, and both the Russians and the Chinese are masters at it.

    The good thing is Assange has confirmed he’s in a safe location. It wouldn’t surprise me if we don’t hear anything for awhile. This is now very serious business.

    Re: the Hong-Kong to Moscow flight, apart from pics, did you see any reports from other passengers at all that they even saw him?

  752. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 7:41 pm

    No Suhayl, as you’re one of the (much) more sensible posters on this blog I would never hit you with a stick, verbal or physical, rhythmically or arhythmically! :)

  753. Habbabkuk – did you miss the Ian Dury reference? Interesting.

  754. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 7:47 pm

    @ Flaming June

    Ok OK, I thought you were perhaps using ‘clock’ colloquially in place of ‘watch’. After all, most of the rest of your squib was about the rather delicious Pippa (here I go again! Nigella, now Pippa…) and since I haven’t looked at Wimbledon on the television I was unaware of the existence of a big Rolex clock.

    And this explanation is a lot more than you deserve! :)

  755. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 7:48 pm

    @ Anon,

    No, no, I got it. He died a couple of years ago, didn’t he.

  756. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 7:49 pm

    Was it Dury or Drury, I don’t recall.

  757. “did you see any reports from other passengers at all that they even saw him?”

    Not a peep, Villager. I’d say there’s a good chance he never went to Moscow at all.

  758. Flaming June

    24 Jun, 2013 - 8:16 pm

    Suhayl I respect you. I wish you had not given equivalence. The hectoring and jibes have been fairly continuous since last November and I have tried to show restraint by not responding to them. Sometimes, as in the last day or so, I have risen to them a few times and now find I am tarred with the same brush of being a nuisance which I rather resent.

    We shall see how things pan out. Most of my posts are factual links etc anyway and do not contain much in the way of opinion so there should be no reason for them to be trolled.

    No need for an answer. Craig’s new post is much more important.

  759. Al-Hilili’s brother has been arrested for conspiracy to murder….I look forward with unalloyed pleasure to the sight of so many people – including some of the most eminent of the Eminences on this blog…having to eat humble pie, crow and their hats. And I hope they choke while doing so.

    Habbabkuk

    I am pleased to see that you have tempered some of your earlier ‘exhuberance’ and seem, accordingly, to be getting on much better with people here. I would even venture to suggest you are quite enjoying yourself.

    So may I offer the following observation (with respect to Al-Hilili), in all humility and in genuine good faith:

    Gloating is ugly, and only diminishes the person who does it.

    IMHO.

    It’s your big test. Are you man enough? (Assuming you are a man of course).

  760. Answers on a postcard if anyone can explain these words of wisdom;

    Veracious strength will enhance the power of intention required to honor the deserving.

    :shock:

  761. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 9:12 pm

    @ KingofWelshNoir :

    I cannot resist answering your kind post.

    “I am pleased to see that you have tempered some of your earlier ‘exhuberance’”

    Oh dear! I must be ageing prematurely. I’ll try and do better in future.

    “I would even venture to suggest you are quite enjoying yourself.”

    You are right.

    “and in genuine good faith:”

    I accept that.

    “(Assuming you are a man of course).”

    Are we not all a mixture of male and female chromosones?

    “Gloating is ugly, and only diminishes the person who does it.”

    You are right. But there’s always a but. I followed the Al-Hilili thread until it got to around 1000 comments and then stopped, finding that it had got a little sterile. I noticed that people were interested and stimulated by the event – which is only human of course, it’s why murder mysteries have alqays sold well. But would you not agree that (most) let themselves be totally carried away by their determination to see a dastardly state conspiracy behind the murders? And one originating, of course, in the West and/or Israel? (Do you remember, for example, the frenzied theorizing about the ‘presence of an Israeli general from the Paris Embassy at a small airfield a mere 20 minutes away from the scene of the murders?).In other words, it was an event which lent itself too easily to serve as an underpinning of people’s fixed ideas and prejudices. I submit that it was that which was what was truly ugly, and not my so-called gloating. (Rather than ‘gloating’ I should use the words “quiet satisfaction which I am unable not to share with fellow-commenters :) ).

  762. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 9:18 pm

    @ The CE

    One would have to have the intellect of an Einstein or the psychological training of a Freud to be able to explain them.

    But I am bold enough to hazard a guess as to their ‘author’. Your starter for ten : Ben Franklin? Mark Golding? Cryptonym as a rank ousider?

  763. You’re good Habba, much more Freud than Einstein(be careful about mentioning old Einy, it’ll get him in a spin about Ziowhatvers) I would argue.

    The one and only Mark Golding.

    Truly horrendous prose. A Bad English nomination beckons surely.

  764. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 9:27 pm

    @ Suhayl

    Mary’s response to your suggestion/appeal/invitation makes me wonder whether I should also respond. But I have set out my ‘position’ several times before (“posts passim” as Doug Scorgie would probably not allow me to say) and really wonder whether I have to go to the trouble of doing so yet again?

    The only thing I would say right now is that one certainly comes across many twerps during normal life and, on the whole, one doesn’t call them out. But this is a public blog and it could be argued that he /she who brings his points of view to the attention of a wide audience must be prepared for those points of view to be challenged by at least some members of that wide audience. That the original poster should react badly to any such challenges is his/her problem and not mine. N’est-ce pas?

  765. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 9:31 pm

    @ The CE

    Yeaaahhh! Do you know, I feel rather proud of myself! :)

    But on the other hand, you have already seen a demonstration of my forensic/linguistic skills as applied to the identification of posters, haven’t you…

    All my best to you and your Polish lady!

  766. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 9:38 pm

    Re Edward Snowden in Russia

    It’s a bit late in the day now, of course, but I should have been slightly less inclined to put my trust in the Russkies.

    Memories perhaps of the exchanges at the German-Soviet partition line in martyred Poland in 1939 : exiled Trotskyites and other handed over to the NKVD by the Gestapo and exiled German communists handed over to the Gestapo by the NKVD.

    Just a thought.

  767. Thanks for replying, Mary and Habbabkuk.

    I was not attempting to apportion equivalance or non-equivalence. And arguing for and against a point-of-view is what a political blog is all about.

    My suggestion was simply to try to depersonalise it all and to try to resist the temptation to respond to every single invitation to attack the poster (as opposed to the ideas presented).

    My other point was that the interaction has been made clear for a while now, so that one understands the two positions; argunably they do not need constantly to be reiterated in ever-creasing circles and in fact doing so risks detracting from the dialectical position of the one iterating at the time. Engaging in constant personal verbal warfare may be entertianing for a while, but risks turning the blog – or at least, threads within it – into a binary function as others get sucked into supporting one or other of the protagonists.

    This is a plea to you both. Well, I’ve said my piece on the nmatter. Just some morsels for thought. Thanks for reading. Best wishes to you both.

  768. doug scorgie

    24 Jun, 2013 - 9:58 pm

    The CE
    24 Jun, 2013 – 10:31 am

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/24/stephen-lawrence-family-smear-met

    Why do you post a link to this Guardian article without explanation or comment?

    Are you pretending to be concerned about the Lawrence family?

  769. KingofWelshNoir
    24 Jun, 2013 – 8:16 pm

    Over time, I have come to observe that some people take Habbabkuk, even more seriously than he takes himself. (e.g. his sense of humour, to me absolutely essential especially over a period of time.) Other way round with Mary she takes herself much more seriously than some others do. I have yet to see he laugh. And yes, like you, i believe Habba’s tone has evolved.

    With similar humility as you, I would suggest that Mary ceases to label Habbabkuk a Troll. To borrow your phrase calling people trolls “is ugly, and only diminishes the person who does it.” And, respectfully, it rather debases the whole blog.

  770. Kibo-Sofia Noh

    24 Jun, 2013 - 10:08 pm

    Re Al Hilli case.

    @Habba. 5 43pm

    “…should it turn out that he is found guilty, I must confess that I look forward with unalloyed pleasure to the sight of so many people…… having to eat humble pie…”

    I’d be happy to see the killer(s) identified and convicted.
    But are you really suggesting that a guilty verdict in a UK court would really dispel reasonable doubts?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guildford_Four_and_Maguire_Seven

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_Six

  771. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 10:10 pm

    Watching MSNBC ‘Hardball’ and the media campaign to discredit Snowden continues. David Corn, normally an outlier wrt mainstream corporatism is falling under the spell;

    ‘Ecuador is still ‘harboring’ Assange in the Embassy’ Words are important. The more you repeat key words, the more it’s accepted.

  772. Habbabkuk

    Actually, I wasn’t accusing you of gloating, but just anticipating it, inferring from the relish with which you greeted this latest plot twist. Sometimes it is just cooler to enjoy quiet satisfaction in these things, no?

    And anyway, if the brother takes the rap, who’s to say he isn’t a patsy, being set up by the dastardly State? Oops, there I go again :)

  773. The CE
    24 Jun, 2013 – 10:41 am

    The Scourge a buffon as ever as I see.

    “I’m off to Wimbers next week and got my tickets for a reasonable £70. Tickets for this week were available for less than £50, but hey, you’re never one to let the facts get in the way of a misinformed rant.”

    I was quoting prices from the official Wimbledon Tennis website.

    If you can obtain tickets for seats inside the courts for the prices you mention then please share that information with the rest of us.

    Or are these tickets for watching the events on big screens outside the courts i.e. on muddy Henman Hill?

    Or even illegal tickets?

    Pray tell.

  774. “I was quoting prices from the official Wimbledon Tennis website.”

    http://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/tickets/201205091336561699698.html

  775. I find myself in the embarrassing position (not for the first time) of having to apologise to a complete tosser or two.

    The CE 24 Jun, 2013 – 10:41 am

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!) 24 Jun, 2013 – 11:27 am

    The outside courts are available for the prices CE stated.

  776. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 10:40 pm

    @ The Scorge

    With all due respect to your apparent experience in ticket-touting, I’d venture to suggest that illegal tickets usually sell at over and not under face value.

    Furhtermore, pray ask yourself why someone should travel a long way and spend £50 or so to watch Wimbledon from a giant screen on a muddy hilltop when you can watch it from your armchair for part of the price of an annual TV licence.

    Are you barking?

    ****************

    La vita è bella, life is good! (win in straight sets – again)

  777. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 10:46 pm

    @ KoWN :

    “Actually, I wasn’t accusing you of gloating, but just anticipating it, inferring from the relish with which you greeted this latest plot twist. Sometimes it is just cooler to enjoy quiet satisfaction in these things, no?”
    ________

    They say that revenge is a dish best eaten cold. Trouble is, I like my food hot…

    Anyway, my final reaction, if and when, is likely to be warmer than quiet satisfaction but less gloating than you fear. Does that sound fair?

  778. This ad won’t do much for Mercedes sales in Israel or America, for that matter, where the Israel lobby is so strong.

    http://windowintopalestine.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/mercedes-benz-smashes-through-israels.html

  779. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    24 Jun, 2013 - 10:56 pm

    @ Sophia :

    “But are you really suggesting that a guilty verdict in a UK court would really dispel reasonable doubts?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guildford_Four_and_Maguire_Seven

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_Six
    ___________

    I understand your point. But, as so often, context is important: the cases (the injustices) you refer to took place in a certain context of considerable ‘political heat’ for want of a better expression, whereas the context now, x months after the Al-Hilili murders, is ‘cool’ (ie, the affair has been forgotten by 99% of the population and anyway didn’t pose a threat to anyone else at the time itself for that matter).

    Saying this more clearly would have taken up more time but I think you know what I mean to say.

    Best to you!

  780. “This ad won’t do much for Mercedes sales in Israel or America, for that matter, where the Israel lobby is so strong.”

    Good job it wasn’t a palm tree.

  781. I find myself in the embarrassing position (not for the first time) of having to apologise to a complete tosser or two.

    The CE 24 Jun, 2013 – 10:41 am

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!) 24 Jun, 2013 – 11:27 am

    The outside courts are available for the prices CE stated.

    —————————————————————–

    Afraid you’ll have to do it again then;

    Show Court tickets for today were available through the Ballot(how I obtained mine)and The Queue for £45 and it was the Show Courts I was referring to. A bargain in my eyes for a days top class tennis including seeing the might Murray triumph.

    However Outside court tickets are available for as low as £12 and a fiver at weekends. Nowhere near the ‘elitist’ event it is made out to be by our sporting experts Mary and Scourge.

    And a Punnet of strawberries and cream is only £2.50. As another contributor is fond of saying, life is good, I think I’ll have two.

  782. Whatever happened to angrysoba? Perhaps he’s soba’d up?

    Sorry, couldn’t resist it.

  783. In fact Wimbledon remains one of the very few major UK sporting events where you can still buy premium tickets on the day of play.

  784. Looks like AFL150 will be landing in Havana in roughly 30 secs. Will there be a mad scramble t