Work for the UN

by craig on June 17, 2013 10:25 am in Uncategorized

GCHQ and the NSA between them employ tens of thousands of people.  I am bemused by the shock at the “revelation” they have been spying.  What on Earth did journalists think that spies do all day? That includes electronics spies.

Since Katherine Gun revealed that we spy on other delegations – and the secretariat – within the UN building, it is hardly a shock that we spy on other governments at summits in the UK.  For once, the government cannot pretend that the object is to save us all from terrorism, which is the usual catch all excuse.  Nor in the real world is any of the G20 nations a military threat to the UK.  The real truth of the matter is that our spies – GCHQ, MI5 and MI6 – are themselves a large and highly influential interest block within the state.  Lots of people make a great deal of money out of the security state, and this kind of activity is actually simply an excuse for taking money from taxpayers – which is from everyone who has ever bought anything – and giving that money to the “security industry”.

I do not view spying on other governments as quite as despicable as spying on ordinary citizens, which is an unspeakable betrayal of the purpose of government.  Spying on other governments is a game they all play to extort money each to their own security elites.  But I will say that spying on the South African government seems pretty low.  Why?

Interception of diplomatic communications is plainly a gross breach of the Vienna Conventions, even if the forms of communication have changed since they were drafted.  I have never studied the particulars of international law as they relate to spying, but it seems to me an area that in the modern world needs regulation.  There must be room here for the UN to be involved in preparing a Convention to outlaw the interception of international communications, with recourse to the International Court of Justice for those victim of it.

There is more work for the UN on Syria.  We should all be grateful that Russia is holding out against the very dubious western claims that the  Syrian government has deployed chemical weapons.  But while Obama can declare all the red lines he wishes, they do not give any country a right to take action on Syrian soil without UN authority.  That needs to be restated, strongly.  There is no basis at all for the continued and massive Israeli attacks on Syria - they are absolutely illegal.  Israeli strikes have definitely killed more people than the alleged deaths from chemical weapons.  Can someone explain to me why that is not a red line?

The UN Secretary General should be speaking out, and the UN Security Council should be meeting, to discuss the Israeli attacks on Syria.  The system of international law has broken down irretrievably.

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1,072 Comments

  1. Kamm retweeted this White remark the other day. You get the drift.

    MichaelWhite ‏@MichaelWhite 15 Jun
    Stop the War coalition protesting outside US embassy against arming Syrian rebs. No mention yet of STW demo at Russian embassy. Wonder why?

    Retweeted by Oliver Kamm

    https://twitter.com/OliverKamm

  2. Re Michael Hastings…

    Why would the car engine end up 100 yards away if the car hit the tree head on?

    Weird.

    Do cars engines usually end up travelling so far in accidents?

    Like i say,weird.

  3. but her appearance on this infotainment program is clearly down to more than just bias.

    She’s been a regular on The Moral Maze (R4) for years, Nevermind. And she’s a very pushy lady (think she’s female). If the BBC wants to escalate her to the position of national object of ridicule, I have little objection lol.

  4. “No such thing is likely to happen. Instead, as 2013 progresses, a further downturn will become visible through the orchestrated statistics. This time the Fed will have to get the printed money past the banks and into the economy, and inflation will explode. The dollar will collapse, and import prices–as globalism has turned the US into an import-dependent economy–will turn high inflation into hyperinflation. Disruptions in food and energy deliveries will become widespread, and a depreciated currency will cease to be used as a means of exchange.”

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2013/06/20/the-rational-market-myth-paul-craig-roberts/

  5. Take a look at this picture and it becomes evident that the car did not strike the tree “head on” but slid into it sideways, the impact area being about where the driver’s door is.

    http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/ap51c10f33.jpg

    In such an impact it would be quite feasible for the engine and gearbox to be flung out; furthermore the fuel tank is not at the back. Modern safety legislation requires it to be positioned ahead of the rear axle so It’s protected in the event of a rear end collision. That would place it in or near the impact area in this case so rupturing of the tank is by no means impossible.

  6. Flaming June

    21 Jun, 2013 - 1:27 pm

    David Swanson (War Is A Crime.org) has just been on RT speaking on this obscenity.

    The US military is scrapping $170m worth of equipment in Vietghanistan as he calls it yet the Congress is currently pushing through a bill to increase military spending.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/scrapping-equipment-key-to-afghan-drawdown/2013/06/19/9d435258-d83f-11e2-b418-9dfa095e125d_print.html

  7. Flaming June

    21 Jun, 2013 - 1:38 pm

    ‘In such an impact it would be quite feasible for the engine and gearbox to be flung out; furthermore the fuel tank is not at the back. Modern safety legislation requires it to be positioned ahead of the rear axle so It’s protected in the event of a rear end collision.’

    Unless it was a Chrysler Jeep!

    Chrysler agrees to recall 2.7m Jeeps after initially refusing
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22962589

    ~~~

    On the same website I see that Google has been ordered to destroy data illicitly collected on Street View. But they have not been fined here in the UK. No, of course not. But they were in the US.

    Street View: Google given 35 days to delete wi-fi data
    Data gathered by Street View cars in more than 30 countries included passwords, emails and other data

    Related Stories
    Google staff ‘knew of snooping’
    Google fined in Street View probe

    Google has been given 35 days to delete any remaining data it “mistakenly collected” while taking pictures for its Street View service, or face criminal proceedings.

    But the UK Information Commissioner’s Office did not impose a fine.

    /..
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23002166

    ~~~

    Reminder of Agent Cameron’s cosy connections to Google.

    http://www.theweek.co.uk/politics/53582/time-get-tough-google-yes-are-relations-too-cosy

  8. Now police forces are doing everything they can to cover up the Hastings murder.

    An unidentified LAPD officer has told the LA Times that there is no evidence of foul play in the accident.

    This is the same police force which claimed that there was no evidence of FBI agent Steve Ivens having bee murdered either, though it had done nothing to even find his body, it seems, since it was found by two hitch hikers after 85 days in the area where police had conducted an intensive manhunt.

    The fact that it had been conveniently moved, like in Dr. David Kelly’s murder, simply escaped the police.

    Then the FBI has done what it can by volunteering that it was not even investigating him – what is true, but is intended to help cover up another murder that the Mossad has undoubtedly done. The Bureau was asking around to see if Hastings was on to its investigation of why Mossad agent Paula Broadwell had threatened Jill Kelley to steer clear of DCI General David Petraeus for fear that Kelltey would learn how Broadwell had ensnared the good General for the Israelis.

    You cannot make this stuff up – our so-called counter terrorists just keep cranking it out.

  9. This is the largest retrograde mission in history.”

    AKA “the biggest retreat ever”, for budding students of the jargon.

    But some people are never satisfied. Haven’t we been saying since the depression began that the Keynesian solution of increased public spending would be a better remedy than kicking the poor in the balls and giving their money to the banks? And what better way of increasing public spending than investing the government’s income (lol) in munitions production?

    Now all we need is someone to be even more terrified of than AQ, and it will all make perfect sense, trust me.

  10. Komodo at 1.44 pm was @ FJ at 1.21pm, btw. Having trouble finding a topic to be on, candidly.

  11. Now all we need is someone to be even more terrified of than AQ, and it will all make perfect sense, trust me.

    With respect to your first point; as in monopoly when someone has all the money and the property the game ends, and the winner is declared. Alas in the real world the banksters windup with all the money again and again, again, along with corporates because they are too big to fail. Trouble with this model is, the economy tanks and unless the game is restarted ie the money is back in the proletariat hands there is no game, and the banksters have to play all by themselves.

    with respect to your second point; there are the aliens in their flying saucers, and the money that can be spent on stopping these little green men from doing their voodoo, can be a handsome earner, for anyone in the business of security. However the eighteenth century tossers planning, conducting and conducting the current blood fests cannot think in the modern terms, and are too busy shoving the same old “barbarian at the gate” story. The illusive flying saucer pilots can scare the dickens out of any rapture lovin, moonshine guzzling, gun slinging, “freedom lovin” soul.

  12. Now police forces are doing everything they can to cover up the Hastings murder.

    Do you recollect Andrew Fastow? He shot himself in the back of the head with a lead slug (hit man special, for the uninitiated) twice, and the police verdict was suicide. Police have always been so thorough in their investigations when dissidents, and persons of “interest” (whose interest?) are concerned.

  13. I’m sure it’s been said, but not a cheep on the BBC about the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child report detailing the hundreds of Palestinian kids murdered by Israel over the last 10 years. If only Ian Pannell could show us the misery in Gaza (as opposed to Syria) it might spur our Governments into action…

    Shameful.

  14. No need for you to add your own porkies about Andrew Fastow, Passerby. The last I knew the former Enron finance officer was alive and well, and saying his tale about its corruption all over the place.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but if not, why don’t you just STFU?

    The sadder thing about police corruption, officials whose job is to catch criminals, is judges and professionals who have no professional benefit in going along with it.

    Just think of Lord Hutton delegating what happened to poor Dr. Kelly to suicide expert Dr. Keith Hawton, and he determined that Kelly had done so, thanks to some TV police having moved his body away from where the struggle occurred where he subsequently died to a nice peaceful spot on Harrowdown Hill where one could kill oneself.

    Let’s face it: today’s world simply sucks!

  15. I think Passerby is thinking of another Enron exec, John Clifford Baxter, who, in 2001, shot himself (allegedly) once, in the side of the head, with a Glaser Safety (sic) bullet- designed to fragment rather than ricochet. Doubts were expressed as to whether this was, as the police claimed, a suicide.

    BTW if Passerby’s fact-checking isn’t always perfect, then whose is? Yours? Hmmm.

  16. No need for you to add your own porkies about Andrew Fastow, Passerby.

    Now then, now then, then now! Stop being vulgar, and good to see that you came back with your answer. Just a little “ping” to see if you are sleep or awake?

    It was the other Andrew Fastow that I meant!

    Really it should have been J. Clifford Baxter, he was shot with a rat shot although now the rat shot has transmuted into “Glaser Safety Slug”. However you are correct about the evident endemic corruption.

    Poor Dr. Kelly he was murdered for an open secret, that now everyone is aware of and know well! Kelly’s last communication was with a “journalist” in US made, he made his last contact out of a phone box. Sadly as we all know, there has never been any hints of what was his last death bed confession? To date the “journalist” concerned has not so much as breathed a word of what Kelly told him before his kidnap and murder.

    Do you recollect Roberto Calvi? He too “suicide-d” so the Met investigations concluded! (to begin with)

    PS After pressing the submit button I noticed my mistake, about Fastow but then the devil got me to keep quiet and see how many people would actually notice the mistake. You have been awarded the gold star Trowbridge.

  17. I think Passerby is thinking of another Enron exec, John Clifford Baxter,

    Thanks there. I am sorry our comments crossed, and you have a double gold star, not only you spotted the mistake but corrected and further explored the rat shot too.

  18. Flaming June

    21 Jun, 2013 - 4:10 pm

    Quite Mike. Not a peep on this atrocity from the BBC. I can only find it reported in the Independent and the NYT. Imagine the furore if the poor woman had been Jewish. Monsieur Hollande would have been raising the roof.

    Today’s Zaman 2013-06-18

    Pregnant Muslim woman attacked in Paris loses baby

    Despite all medical efforts, a pregnant Muslim woman who was attacked by two Islamophobic men in the Paris suburb of Argenteuil on Thursday suffered a miscarriage and lost her baby, her lawyer said on Tuesday.

    The 21-year-old Muslim woman, who was four months pregnant, was physically attacked by two men. The attackers first tried taking her headscarf off and later cut off her hair and tore part of her clothing. After she screamed out that she was pregnant, one of the attackers started kicking her in the stomach.

    She was taken to Argenteuil hospital where she underwent treatment for injuries.

    /..
    http://www.todayszaman.com/newsDetail_getNewsById.action?newsId=318574

  19. Regarding Michael Hastings’ car engine ending up 100 feet from the scene of the crash and a neighbour hearing an explosion like a bomb, do you think we should all write to Mercedes to ask if their cars are safe?

  20. Further to Phil’s post yesterday to ‘this is what victory looks like’ here is an account of the changing circumstances in Kabul.
    Its becoming more dangerous for NGO’s NATO soldiers and Karzai’s administration at large. The Taliban are in charge and whatever we are hearing, our forces are in now in retreat.

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/us-talks-with-taliban-in-doha-mark-capitulation-in-afghanistan-a-907199.html

    “On Thursday, pressure from the United States and others led the group to rename the office the “Political Office of the Afghan Taliban.” Doing so openly depicted the Taliban as a parallel government that President Karzai was now supposed to come to an agreement with about sharing power.

    The move incensed President Karzai, who viewed it as an affront to his government’s sovereignty. On Wednesday, he withdrew his delegation from the talks. However, according to the Associated Press, Karzai is now willing to join the talks as long as the Taliban flag and nameplate are removed from the office and the US government sends him a formal letter of support for his government.”

  21. The move incensed President Karzai, who viewed it as an affront to his government’s sovereignty. On Wednesday, he withdrew his delegation from the talks. However, according to the Associated Press, Karzai is now willing to join the talks as long as the Taliban flag and nameplate are removed from the office and the US government sends him a formal letter of support for his government.”

    Former UNOCAL charge hand is taking himself far too seriously these days. His capitulation and his “requirements” have already been met. The flag pole has been shortened so that the Taliban flag is not seen from without the high walled compound, and the the name plate; “Emirate of Afghanistan” has been removed from the outside wall and fixed to the inner walls of the compound.

    US clearly has “won” his war too, as US has won every other war that its military has fought!

  22. Flaming June

    21 Jun, 2013 - 6:42 pm

    BBC London News have just interviewed the Tommy Robinson/EDL character about their forthcoming planned march in Woolwich. Was this a subtle way of giving them airtime and publicity? Geller is coming from the US to speak.

    This is a report on the plans from another source .
    http://www.london24.com/news/crime/call_to_ban_right_wing_speakers_from_edl_woolwich_march_1_2246357

    and the Independent on Vaz’s objections.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/rightwing-american-speakers-planning-to-join-the-edls-woolwich-march-should-be-banned-from-entering-the-country-8668686.html

  23. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Jun, 2013 - 7:03 pm

    Elise Jordan, Journalist and widow of Hastings strikes back, but about NYT’s words about McChrystal?

    Where is her statement wrt her husband’s odd ‘accident”? Why was he speeding at 4:30 am on city streets; someone with a safe driving record?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/19/michael-hastings-wife_n_3469095.html

  24. technicolour

    21 Jun, 2013 - 7:08 pm

    Good grief, people, read this. Plans to undermine Greenwald included:

    http://www.thenation.com/article/174851/strange-case-barrett-brown#axzz2Ws0B2bYh

  25. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Jun, 2013 - 7:11 pm

    Embedded center-story is this highlighted in RED, folks; nothing to see here. Move along.

    STORY: Car Experts on Michael Hastings’ Crash: No Reason to Suspect Foul Play

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/michael-hastings-crash-site-memorialized-573315

  26. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Jun, 2013 - 7:16 pm

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HBGary

    “In 2010, Aaron Barr, CEO of HBGary Federal, alleged that he could exploit social media to gather information about hackers.[3]

    In early 2011, Barr claimed to have used his techniques to infiltrate Anonymous,[3][12][13] partly by using IRC, Facebook, Twitter, and by social engineering.[3][14] His e-mails depict his intention to release information on the identities of Anonymous members at the B-Sides conference and to sell it to possible clients,[3][15] including the FBI.[16] In the e-mails, Barr explained that he identified his list of suspected Anonymous “members” by tracing connections through social media, while his main programmer criticized this methodology.[3][17] In a communiqué, Anonymous denied association with the individuals that Barr named.[18][third-party source needed]”

    Technicolour; It seems the paranoia about the intentions of sock-puppets has some justification.

  27. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    21 Jun, 2013 - 7:25 pm

    Flaming June (16h10)is angry with the BBC :

    “Quite Mike. Not a peep on this atrocity from the BBC. I can only find it reported in the Independent and the NYT”
    __________

    Had this happened in the UK, do you think French radio and television would be peeping about it?

    And how many French newspapers would mention it?

  28. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    21 Jun, 2013 - 7:34 pm

    @ Flaming June aka Mary :

    “BBC London News have just interviewed the Tommy Robinson/EDL character about their forthcoming planned march in Woolwich. Was this a subtle way of giving them airtime and publicity?”
    __________

    No.

    What is so strange about a radio station serving London reporting on something that will take place in London?

    Had the report not been made, you’d probably be suspecting the BBC of trying to ignore or suppress mention of the event.

  29. technicolour

    21 Jun, 2013 - 7:48 pm

    Ben, tried to post this but the site crashed. I don’t think we’re allowed to be paranoid anymore. It’s mostly real. Only reading Fear & Loathing on the Campaign Trail recently has cheered me any. On which note, Matt Taibbi, I realise, is a good thing, in the Hunter tradition, not a rip, as I erroneously assumed.

    But trolls, chah :)

  30. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Jun, 2013 - 7:50 pm

    “We are in touch with Snowden frequently, and we are involved in the process of brokering his asylum in Iceland,” Wikileaks founder Julian Assange said on a Wednesday press conference call.”

    http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/06/19/assange-wikileaks-brokering-asylum-for-snowden/

  31. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Jun, 2013 - 7:58 pm

    Tech; If you liked F&L on Campaign trail, you should read (Great Shark hunt, I think) where he ran for Sheriff in Aspen Colorado. It’s a hoot.

    He lost of course, but created a furor with his campaign platform.

    One of the planks was to change the name Aspen to ‘FAT CITY’ to stave off the developers.

    He shaved his head so he could refer to the other candidate as ‘My long-haired opponent’.

  32. Flaming June

    21 Jun, 2013 - 7:59 pm

    As per usual the troll attempts two diversions.

    1. The main point is that a pregnant MUSLIM woman was attacked in Paris which was a cruel, racist and SERIOUS matter.

    The BBC is quite capable of reporting TRIVIAL stories from France.
    ie Monsieur Depardieu is drunk in charge of a scooter.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23001269

    2. BBC London News is a TV station not a radio station as anyone who lived in the UK would know. The main point is that the racists of the EDL are bent on creating hate and friction against Muslims and Geller will aid the process.

    See Craig’s posts on Geller ref Breivik.
    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2011/07/who-funded-breivik/

    and three others:

    Why the Mainstream Media is Doomed
    by craig on Jul 26th 2011
    Laziness. Sloth will kill the mainstream media. All those well-paid journalists resting their fat bottoms on padded office chairs will become extinct as a breed, victims of their own inability to raise a sweat, just like the poor old dodo. On Saturday, when I posted on Brevik’s links to Pamela Geller, a google advanced search […]

    Is Anders Breivik in This Photograph?
    by craig on Jul 25th 2011
    This 2009 rally in Oslo was attended by Breivik’s heroine, Pamela Geller. On Saturday I posted about the comments Breivik made on Geller’s Atlas Shrugs website. There is a fuller analysis on the impact of the Tea Party on Breivik’s thinking here. It turns out that Breivik also references Geller’s Atlas Shrugs blog and a […]

    Norwegian Killer Linked to Tea Party and EDL
    by craig on Jul 23rd 2011
    Anders Behring Breivik posted links to the Atlas Shrugs website of the Tea Party’s Pamela Geller. Here you can see him under the name of Anders Behring (his middle name) posting links to Geller’s “Atlas Shrugs” site. That cache page is bing translated from Norwegian. Here is a video of Pamela Geller addressing the Tennessee […]

    But of course, the troll would be unaware of these posts being absent from this blog then unless……

  33. Technicolour, that is alarming, especially the report on one jerk wanting to render Abdelbaset al Megrahi, who was dying from cancer, after he was released from prison on compassionate grounds (rather than let him face a retrial in which he would certainly have been acquitted). Today nobody thinks al Megrahi had anything to do with the Lockerbie plane crash of Pan Am 103 but there are a lot who would want you to think that, like David Cameron and Ed Miliband, for example.

  34. technicolour

    21 Jun, 2013 - 8:13 pm

    Ben, and he nearly won – except the other two parties leagued against him. me, I think his promise to ‘only take mescaline when not on duty’ pretty funny, but kind of wish he’d got to stand on a more angry & serious note as he was promising to do in F&LOTCT.

    John Goss: actually I found the hounding & persecution of a good journalist doing an arguably vital job (and the persecution of his mother) rather more unsettling – it is actually happening as I type? but it shows the calibre, I agree.

  35. technicolour

    21 Jun, 2013 - 8:17 pm

    and Geller is being invited to address the EDL rally in Woolwich next week. Oh brave new world. I’m posting this because it’s clever, courageous, stirring and funny (if a bit mean to the EDL members who haven’t had a chance to think it through: still, it might help them too): Mitch Benn ‘There are things worth rioting about right now’

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9oSoOeKtVQ

  36. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    21 Jun, 2013 - 8:28 pm

    @ Flaming June aka Mary

    You’re being as dishonest as usual, but also sillier than usual.

    Let’s look at your latest offering.

    1/. “As per usual the troll attempts two diversions.”

    Wrong. These are two posts in response to two posts of yours which, as usual, have nothing to do with the subject of this thread (Dreoilin – please note and add to your list of O/Ts!)

    2/. “The main point is that a pregnant MUSLIM woman was attacked in Paris which was a cruel, racist and SERIOUS matter.”

    If that was the point, why did you not just leave it at that? What did your dig at the BBC and the British press add to your point?

    3/. “BBC London News is a TV station not a radio station as anyone who lived in the UK would know. The main point is that the racists of the EDL are bent on creating hate and friction against Muslims and Geller will aid the process.”

    So that’s your “MAIN POINT”, is it? In which case, you expressed it in a singularly curious way in your post at 18h42 which, I would recall, read as follows :

    “BBC London News have just interviewed the Tommy Robinson/EDL character about their forthcoming planned march in Woolwich. Was this a subtle way of giving them airtime and publicity? Geller is coming from the US to speak”

    I had the impression that your “main point” was to suggest that the BBC was deliberately giving the EDL airtime and publicity.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    You must really decide what your “main point” is when you’re posting and once you have done so, state it clearly and resist the temptation to garnish it with silly little digs reflecting your usual obsessions.

  37. “Technicolour, that is alarming, especially the report on one jerk wanting to render Abdelbaset al Megrahi, who was dying from cancer, after he was released from prison on compassionate grounds (rather than let him face a retrial in which he would certainly have been acquitted). Today nobody thinks al Megrahi had anything to do with the Lockerbie plane crash of Pan Am 103 but there are a lot who would want you to think that, like David Cameron and Ed Miliband, for example.”

    I did a bit of research into this and there is little doubt in my mind that Megrahi was guilty as hell. However it seems that the Lockerbie bombing probably wasn’t one of the things he was guilty of.

    I think there should be a public enquiry. It’s looking like another case of the Scottish legal system being rotten to the core. The Crown Office is entirely politically motivated and with moves afoot to undermine hundreds of years of Scottish legal tradition by removing the necessity for corroboration we could well end up with some Scottish Julian Assanges.

  38. Flaming June

    21 Jun, 2013 - 9:03 pm

    Ex kibbutznik Rachel Johnson reviews old times at the Kibbutz with brother Boris. She wears blinkers.

    She should have tried the diet in Gaza to compare it with what Ottolenghi offers.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-2305291/Holidays-Israel-Rachel-Johnson-returns-land-brother-Boris-kibbutz-workers.html

    ‘But first, there was something I could do this March I couldn’t in 1984 – explore the Golan Heights, which was then a, um, lively war zone.

    The Golan is calmer now, though its status is still in dispute (I discovered it depends who you ask). White Jeeps of the UN still buzz about and there are several Israeli Defence Force army bases, not to mention lines of tank emplacements, but don’t let that put you off.’

    Not quite so calm at the moment eh Rachel?

    And not a mention of checkpoints, settlements, separation walls, the Palestinian men, women and children. Perhaps they were all invisible.

    ~~

    If the troll even thinks that I am going to engage in one of his pointless circular exchanges, he has another think coming. He can go hang.

    Meanwhile…La vita per i Palestinesi non è buona.

  39. technicolour

    21 Jun, 2013 - 9:22 pm

    Mary, with all best wishes, perhaps you should either address him, politely, as I’m sure you would like to be addressed, or ignore him altogether. No-one would mind, either way.

  40. Trigger happy and accountable to nobody.

    From Le Monde, Google Translate

    http://www.lemonde.fr/proche-orient/article/2013/06/21/jerusalem-un-garde-tue-un-visiteur-juif-au-mur-des-lamentations_3433998_3218.html

    A private Israeli security guard killed, Friday, June 21, an Israeli Jewish visitor to the Wall of Lamentation of Jerusalem, taking him for a Palestinian militant, police said.
    The Visitor “for some unknown reason, shouted ‘Allahu Akbar’ [God is the greatest, in Arabic],” said a spokesman for the police. “A security guard drew his weapon and fired several shots at the suspect, who died of his injuries.”

    The incident occurred shortly before 8 am, while the square in front of the wall was filled with faithful for the morning prayer on the eve of Shabbat, the weekly day of rest for the Jews. The security guard told the police investigators that he thought the man, aged 46, was trying to take something from his pocket and shouted “Allah Akbar” and he was about of the attack, according to public radio. The radio added that the police had found nothing suspicious on the body of the victim.

    FRENCH PARENTS

    The police, who announced the opening of an investigation, said the circumstances of the incident were not yet clear. “We look at the past of the officer who opened fire and motives” of the man killed by the keeper. “This is a very odd behavior,” said the spokesman Micky Rosenfeld police.

    “Well-known figure” of the Jewish Quarter of the Old City, according to his knowledge, the victim worked as a volunteer at a soup kitchen organized by the Chabad Hasidic movement. “He lives here alone, his parents are in France,” said David Dahan, without specifying whether it also has the French nationality.

    According to the private channel 10, witnesses assured that the guard had shot between seven and ten bullets, and that the shooting was unjustified, the target seemed to be a harmless eccentric with psychiatric problems. Citing witnesses, the Ynet website reported that there had been no warning shots or attempt to control, and the guard shot him directly in the chest.

    The rabbi of the Western Wall has expressed deep sorrow over the incident. “Whatever the circumstances, it is a tragedy,” he said. This wall is the most important of Judaism, the last vestige of the Second Temple, destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD Shrine. It is located beneath the Temple Mount, the third holiest site in Islam, making the site one of the most sensitive places in Jerusalem, with frequent clashes between Palestinians and Israeli security forces.

    Maariv Friday identified several cases of killings in recent months by members of private security companies in a country where the number of weapons in circulation is very important. “Three months ago, a security guard for 52 years has been accused of having shot and killed his wife […] In the same month, there was another shocking incident in Haifa Bay (north) when…………

  41. You must be joking Technicolour. Days ago I was being called an old biddy by him and there were similar insults previously.

  42. Thanks Mary for the data on the Golan, and also the poor Muslim woman in Paris. Fact that the West seems to have found its new untermensch in Muslims, has never been so starkly evident. The poor woman is kicked in the stomach and her unborn infant murdered in the way of stopping the “Muslim infestation”. This is born by the fact that no one gives a shit about such a inhuman and barbaric conduct of the so called “civilised” Europeans, the mejdia is pretty much neutral about it all.

    Also address the ziofuckwits any which way you like, this notion of tolerating these crazy tweets is the stuff of the masochism, you don’t have to tolerate these tossers if you don’t wish to do so!

  43. Strange isn’t it that the leader of the English Defence League isn’t English but Irish. Stranger too that ‘Tommy Robinson’ isn’t his real name. Strange that the BBC didn’t think to ask why he uses a false name; stranger still that the EDL mostly carry Zionist ‘Star of David’ flags, the personal sign and seal of the Rothschild family, adopted as the flag of the Zionist terrorist’s religious supremacist failed state. It’s a funny old world as they say.

    I wonder if there are many membership overlaps between the armed forces or police officers and the EDL’s followers, as there were with the BNP membership, where also there were some intriguing overlaps too with middling trade union officialdom at factory shop/steward level and in cushy make-work jobs in major defence contractor sites dotted around the country.

  44. No. I’m not joking, Mary. I think either you could address the points or ignore them.

  45. Sorry, that sounds as though the points were all valid. I just think that addressing ‘the troll’, as you put it, is in danger of perpetuating a dynamic.

  46. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Jun, 2013 - 10:41 pm

    http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2013/06/19/podcast-show-112-nsa-whistleblower-goes-on-record-reveals-new-information-names-culprits/

    Here’s the transcript;

    “Tice: Okay. They went after — and I know this because I had my hands literally on the paperwork for these sort of things — they went after high-ranking military officers; they went after members of Congress, both Senate and the House, especially on the intelligence committees and on the armed services committees and some of the — and judicial. But they went after other ones, too. They went after lawyers and law firms. All kinds of–heaps of lawyers and law firms.

    They went after judges. One of the judges is now sitting on the Supreme Court that I had his wiretap information in my hand. Two are former FISA court judges.

    They went after State Department officials. They went after people in the executive service that were part of the White House–their own people. They went after antiwar groups.

    They went after U.S. international — U.S. companies that that do international business, you know, business around the world. They went after U.S. banking firms and financial firms that do international business.

    They went after NGOs that — like the Red Cross, people like that that go overseas and do humanitarian work. They went after a few antiwar civil rights groups.

    So, you know, don’t tell me that there’s no abuse, because I’ve had this stuff in my hand and looked at it…
    Interviewer: Now Russ, the targeting of the people that you just mentioned, top military leaders, members of Congress, intelligence community leaders and the — oh, I’m sorry, it was intelligence committees, let me correct that — not intelligence community, and then executive branch appointees. This creates the basis, and the potential for massive blackmail.

    Tice: Absolutely! And remember we talked about that before, that I was worried that the intelligence community now has sway over what is going on.

    Now here’s the big one. I haven’t given you any names. This was is summer of 2004. One of the papers that I held in my hand was to wiretap a bunch of numbers associated with, with a 40-something-year-old wannabe senator from Illinois. You wouldn’t happen to know where that guy lives right now, would you? It’s a big white house in Washington, DC. That’s who they went after. And that’s the president of the United States now.”

  47. Stranger too that ‘Tommy Robinson’ isn’t his real name.

    He explains that this is because of death threats.

    Strange that the BBC didn’t think to ask why he uses a false name;

    Yes, but covered on Andrew Neill’s show, of all places

    stranger still that the EDL mostly carry Zionist ‘Star of David’ flags,

    Certainly not ‘mostly’. – or proof please. See Vice piece on EDL in Walthamstow.

    the personal sign and seal of the Rothschild family, adopted as the flag of the Zionist terrorist’s religious supremacist failed state.

    Well? What?

    It’s a funny old world as they say.

    Hmmm.

  48. The state then, with its Friends is encouraging, protecting and probably financing these and dog knows how many other extremist groups of varied sorts, giving tacit backing for their agendas of hate and division: muslims today, who next I wonder. Straitened days too for the armed forces, that sinkhole of public funds, the chancellor seems to have spotted that the MoD has stealthily become one of the largest buy-to-let landlords in the country, but doesn’t seem too bothered at this racketeering and plundering of the defence budget, or its part in further fuelling of the explosive housing bubble. The last crash of 2008 it seems now was only a preliminary, mild in comparision to what must inevitably follow.

  49. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Jun, 2013 - 10:49 pm

    Did Dreoilin bow out of comments? I saw she said ‘gone’ or something. We want her back.

  50. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Jun, 2013 - 10:57 pm

    ” Mary. I think either you could address the points or ignore them.”

    To be fair Tech, I think that’s a false choice. When a comedian does stand-up it’s necessary to answer the hecklers. It’s a no-win for Mary, a win-win for the troll.

  51. Racism and Institutionalised Discrimination in zionistan:

    banks have a secret policy of rejecting Arab customers who try to transfer their accounts to a branch in a Jewish community, even though this violates banking regulations.

    .. mobile-phone photos of a young Arab woman surrounded by a mob of respectable-looking commuters amd shoppers while she waited for a train. As they hit her and pulled off her hijab, station guards looked on impassively.

    Segregation is enforced in all the main spheres of life: land allocation and housing, citizenship rights, education, and employment.

    Fighting Al Qaeda by Supporting Al Qaeda in Syria:

    An Al Qaeda affiliated organization, namely Syria’s Al Nusrah, is being supported “overtly” by the US President, rather than “covertly” by the CIA.

    ==========

    I wonder if there are many membership overlaps between the armed forces or police officers

    You bet the “craft” (masonic) has many facets, and it too is mostly concerned with keeping the nuts of certain tribe away from any roasting rods. The Irish catholic tommy Leader often dresses up as a bearded rabbi to give the slip to the fuzz/rosa/pigs/cops/bobbies (how would a Catholic know, how to dress up as a rabbi if it were not for his ziofuckwit mentors?) Also this bunch of useful idiots masquerading as the defenders of all things Engerland often go on counter demonstration to the boycott and divest campaigns demonstrations against the ziofuckwit business outfits (ahava etc.), along side the ziofuckwit branch of the Engerland defending warrior master race.

    This geller character runs a blog (atlas shrugs, which incidentally is not taken off and or shut-down), that makes KKK look a reasonable centre left bunch of “liberals”, yet she is not considered a hate monger by the St Theresa of May, although Louis Farrakhan is, and denied an entry visa to UK.

  52. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Jun, 2013 - 11:14 pm

    “Lambert was deployed by the special demonstration squad (SDS) – a top-secret Metropolitan police unit that targeted political activists between 1968 until 2008, when it was disbanded. He co-wrote the defamatory six-page leaflet in 1986 – and his role in its production has been the subject of an internal Scotland Yard investigation for several months.

    At no stage during the civil legal proceedings brought by McDonald’s in the 1990s was it disclosed that a police infiltrator helped author the leaflet.”

    If you eat Big Macs, you need to read this. I’m tired of purveyors of salt, fat and sugar exploiting the weakness of the public. (I have to admit, I eat this food, but I must stop)

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/21/mclibel-leaflet-police-bob-lambert-mcdonalds

  53. Fred @ 8.55 p.m. “Guilty as hell”. Of what? I would be interested to see the research you did on al Megrahi. Did you for example question why the FBI handled an inquiry of an event on Scottish soil? Did you find out anything in your research about who was on board that might have been a target? Have you heard of Bernt Carlsson? Have you even seen the film “Blood Diamond” with Leonardo Di Capprio starring? Why has no investigation of South Africa and the United States taken place? Obviously United States leads are not going to be investigated by the FBI. However, there are 270 families, some of whom might have put their grief behind them, but others who want to know the truth. Is it not in their collective interest to have a thorough non-partisan investigation into the real people guilty of this heinous crime? By the way Fred, you haven’t by any chance inserted a letter ‘r’ into your name have you?

  54. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Jun, 2013 - 11:32 pm

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-charges-snowden-with-espionage/2013/06/21/507497d8-dab1-11e2-a016-92547bf094cc_story.html

    “The complaint was filed in the Eastern District of Virginia, a jurisdiction where Snowden’s former employer, Booz Allen Hamilton, is headquartered, and a district with a long track record in prosecuting cases with national security implications.”

    Virginia farmboys, aside…

  55. Ben, agreed. And come back, Dreoilin! But Mary, if you ignored the person you call troll altogether, everyone would understand. And yet if you engaged with the few things you do find interesting, everyone would be fine with that too. I think, Habbakuk, since we’re talking about you, that you’ve rather exhausted your ‘picking up on Mary’ line with everyone, did some time ago. Never thought I’d say this, but unless you can post – say – ten posts which don’t mention Mary, in a row, I’m up for a ban too. Not because I agree with Mary necessarily, but because I’m very bored. It’s not fair on this otherwise rather interesting board.

  56. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 12:33 am

    @ Technicolour:

    Ok, so ask yourself if you’re perfectly happy with Mary’s posts at 16h10 (assault in Argenteuil) and 18h42 (EDL and the BBC) – and with her ‘response’ to my comments on those posts.

    Are you satisfied that they add to the sum of knowledge on anything in particular? Does their tone strike you as appropriate?
    _________

    Rather than asking me to post ten times in a row without mentioning Mary, you might do better to ask Mary to stay on topic for ten posts in a row or to engage in a discussion for ten posts in a row or even to answer ten questions in a row.

  57. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 12:38 am

    And if you’re “bored” why don’t you just do as others have advised and scroll straight past me? Surely it would only need a little bit of will-power and bingo, no more boredom! :)
    ___________

    Of course, the reasons you and others don’t is that you are all well aware that all of my comments and questions are perfectly valid and that you are unable to refute me. Which of course is what annoys you so much.

  58. bored, not annoyed. try ten in a row without mentioning mary. what harm will it do? (rhetorical question)

  59. Start from now.

  60. @John Goss

    He as undoubtedly working for the Libyan intelligence services who were no more saints than any of the other intelligence services. I don’t believe they picked his name out of a hat.

    The bombing had nothing to do with targeting anyone. The bomb was planted by a Palestinian group in exchange for money. Iran paid them to bring down an American plane as revenge for America shooting down an Iranian airliner.

  61. karel (a conspiracy a day keeps idiocy away)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 1:01 am

    Fred,

    it is funny what you say as after an extensive research I have become convinced now that you must have planted the bomb as you seem to be quite familiar with the whereabouts. Are you a palestinian by any chance??

  62. “Stop the War coalition protesting outside US embassy against arming Syrian rebs. No mention yet of STW demo at Russian embassy. Wonder why?”

    Oh for fuck sake. If the journalist doesn’t know the answer he’s a fucking idiot. Here’s the answer: the US sets UK foreign policy, and the Russians do not. Hence the demo outside the US Embassy, not the Russian one. Michael White is a tool, but pretending to be an idiot really isn’t a good look.

    And I am officially gobsmacked at today’s revelations in The Guardian. Yes yes I sort of knew this was going on, but to have it confirmed is quite something. And, worse, to have all sorts of politicians defend this spying is almost unbelievable. They really do have no shame, do they? And I note there was a clause inserted into RIPA that allowed this. It was inserted in 2000 – Tony Blair again.

  63. Libya under Gadaffi was probably the closest any country had ever come to a practical realisation of the theory of democracy, even to the extent that any Libyan unannounced could come and address the parliament and the equal participation of both sexes in determining policy, long before anywhere else. I would say that its intelligence services had the job of protecting to the best their abilities something worthwhile there and could do so with admirable principles uppermost and clear consciences. The ‘evidence’ that Libya was behind nightclub bombings, which the US (with British help, thanks Mrs T) used as justification for bombing Libya in the mid-80s was based on manufactured evidence -intercepts of a group of Israeli run radio transmitters, ostensibly operated by Libyan agents in Europe, as the story goes, communicating back and forth to Libya, which the US knew to be completely bogus and knew just who was really behind and operating them. It follows that the bombings themselves were false flag events, to justify the US bombing of Libya, as the Israeli run transmitters, in their amateurish nature were so transparently faked as Libyan as could not and did not fool anyone.

  64. Flaming June

    22 Jun, 2013 - 6:16 am

    Edward Snowden is now being pursued for ‘espionage and theft of government property’ and his extradition from Hong Kong is sought. It’s such a shame that the evil PTB are unsure if he is still in Hong Kong.

    NSA leaks: US charges Edward Snowden with spying
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23012317#

    Meanwhile GCHQ’s ‘Temopora’ is stealing 600 million of our communications daily. Should we charge HMG with ‘espionage and theft’. Irony is dead.

    GCHQ taps fibre-optic cables for secret access to world’s communications

    Exclusive: British spy agency collects and stores vast quantities of global email messages, Facebook posts, internet histories and calls, and shares them with NSA, latest documents from Edward Snowden reveal
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/21/gchq-cables-secret-world-communications-nsa

  65. Flaming June

    22 Jun, 2013 - 6:24 am

    That s/be Tempora.

    Mastering the internet: how GCHQ set out to spy on the world wide web

    Project Tempora – the evolution of a secret programme to capture vast amounts of web and phone data

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/21/gchq-mastering-the-internet

    Was some joke intended in the choice of the name?
    ‘Oh What times! Oh What customs!
    This sentence is now used as an exclamation to criticize present-day attitudes and trends, often jokingly or ironically.’

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_tempora_o_mores!

  66. Flaming June

    22 Jun, 2013 - 6:33 am

    Three cheers for Clare Daly. Must listen. On the Obama visit to Ireland. She calls him a war criminal. Can you see Bercow allowing similar in our ‘House of Commons’?

    http://xrepublic.tv/node/3893

    Here is the smooth Enda Kenny with the aforementioned war criminal.
    http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Barack_Obama_and_Enda_Kenny_at_Farmleigh.jpg

  67. Flaming June

    22 Jun, 2013 - 7:04 am

    Acronyms by the dozen here. TIPS, TALON, TIAP, TTIC….

    The Mad Men are truly with us.

    Your Friendly Neighborhood Totalitarian State
    by Walter Brasch / June 21st, 2013
    http://dissidentvoice.org/2013/06/your-friendly-neighborhood-totalitarian-state/

  68. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 8:53 am

    “Libya under Gadaffi was probably the closest any country had ever come to a practical realisation of the theory of democracy, even to the extent that any Libyan unannounced could come and address the parliament”
    ____________

    Is one permitted to doubt the validity (perhaps even the sanity) of this assertion?

    It ranks alongside the assertion of the time that the Soviet Union was a workers’ paradise and that the 1936 Soviet constitution was the most perfect constitution ever.

    I wonder, en passant, what were the (real, as opposed to on paper) powers of that Libyan parliament which any Libyan citizen was so free to address directly? How was it elected/appointed?

    Faugh!

  69. I’ve heard it all now. Some asinine talking head on the radio just now, defending the latest GCHQ snooping revelation by saying most people would be pleased to learn that GCHQ has this capability and that they are, in this respect, a world leader.

    FFS!

  70. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 9:06 am

    @ Technicolour:

    You haven’t really addressed my point(s) and answered my question(s), have you. That’s your right, of course, but it does suggest, once again, that you have no answers.

    PS – it is now 09h00 BST and Mary has already posted four times (including one link to the BBC and two to the Guardian). If she carries on at this rate she’ll be a wreck before the day’s out (and so will we).

  71. Fred, I am still waiting for your extensive research. This is Gareth Peirce, described by John Pilger as England’s greatest human rights’ lawyer. She is certainly one of the greatest but I put Clive Stafford Smith in the same category. This is what Gareth Peirce had to say in 2010 two years before al Megrahi died and David Cameron refused to hold an inquiry into the real perpetrators (backed by Ed Miliband).

    “Equivocation and uncertainty are not enough. Even if the science that convicted al-Megrahi had not offended against every minimum standard, then the second pillar of the prosecution case, his identification by Tony Gauci, the Maltese shopkeeper, would remain spectacular in its noncompliance with any safeguard. He described al-Megrahi as ‘6’0’’’ (he was 5’8’’), ‘50 years old’ (he was 37), and ‘hefty’; said that he ‘had been to the shop before and after’, ‘had been there only once’; that he ‘saw him in a bar months later’; that he ‘will sign statement even though I don’t speak English’; that al-Megrahi ‘was similar but not identical’, ‘perhaps like him but not fully like him’, and, fatally for any identification of al-Megrahi in the first place, that he was ‘like the man in the Sunday Times’ (in other words, like Abu Talb, whose picture Gauci had initially identified). But Gauci’s evidence was needed and, reports suggest, handsomely rewarded. He apparently now lives in Australia, supported by millions of US dollars.”

    If you read the whole article it should add something to your knowledge because John Ashton has written a biography about the innocence of al Megrahi, but I should like to know what evidence you have that he was guilty of some crime(s) or other.

    http://www.lrb.co.uk/v31/n18/gareth-peirce/the-framing-of-al-megrahi

  72. Billy fourteen pints, plays Casandra and warns Scotland:

    A separate Scotland’s citizens would not have the “comfort” of their government possessing an extensive network of embassies to help them abroad or experienced intelligence and security services to protect their safety at home,

    ….. an independent Scotland would face resistance in its efforts to join the EU on favourable terms from countries with their own separatist movements, such as Spain.

    Then Billy fourteen pints tries to awaken the passion of the Unionist freds, green freds, even catholic freds, and freds all around:

    the British have to “confront” the fact some of this power would ebb away if Scotland decided to separate, while Scotland would lose its seat on the “top table” of international institutions.

    …. hinder ……improve trade, tackle global poverty and pursue specific campaigns such as the UK’s ongoing efforts to prevent mass rapes in wars, he said.

    Looks like if Scotland goes independent, their hens won’t lay eggs, cows won’t give milk, their sporrans will run empty, and their butt naked bollocks will freeze in the cold winds of independence blowing from the arctic and Iceland leaving Scots staring at their tadgers on the cold cobbles of an independent Scotland!

    Alas poor Billy! et too Bitter*?

    * This is a non brand statement, therefore the generic term Bitter is used!

  73. United States of Surveillance

    http://vimeo.com/fiorecartoons/united-states-of-surveillance

    PS We never had ‘on topic’ or ‘off topic’ police on this blog until recent times or persistent trolling.

  74. In Dreolin’s absence, which i’m confident won’t be too long, its worth recapping a couple of her comments for context to the discussions that took place last midnight:

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/06/work-for-the-un/comment-page-2/#comment-413731

    and

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/06/work-for-the-un/#comment-413411

    Please note the lack of cut n paste of the whole comments in order to economise on space and not fling this into people’s face who may understandably not be interested.

  75. AN OBSERVATION:

    Cease and desist from character assassinations.

    Set up you own blog and then start passing comments about others.

    ~~~~~~~

    Ben, agreed. And come back, Dreoilin!

    There is no valet parking for zimmer frames around here, unless you wish to volunteer?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I’ve heard it all now. Some asinine talking head on the radio just now, defending the latest GCHQ snooping revelation by saying most people would be pleased to learn that GCHQ has this capability and that they are, in this respect, a world leader.

    At least we are good at something, and that is what matters, so far as these food wasters are concerned. As it stands there is sweet FA that we can claim to be good at, so we aer better than STASI,KGB, ABC, and the rest of the alphabet in spying the heck out of our citizens! Stop being so curmudgeonly and celebrate our new Best that we have achieved!!

    ~~~~~~~~

    John Ashton has written a biography about the innocence of al Megrahi, but I should like to know what evidence you have that he was guilty of some crime(s) or other.

    He is guilty, guilty, guilty! what more proof do you want than a feeling in his water?

    Megrahi (innocent or not) was part of the penance Ghaddafi’s pay for his atonement, along with the two billion dollars to grease the palms of anyone that cared to lay a claim on the free money made available by the now departed colonel. Other than the LSE which was vilified for taking money from his son.

  76. @John Goss

    Please leave out the strawmen, I have not used the word “extensive”.

    I think it has been established that the witness you refer to and his brother were paid for his testimony by America, I don’t think even the American government are denying it any more.

    The appeal would also have had the testimony of a Scottish Assistant Chief Constable that he planted crucial evidence for the CIA and testimony from an employee of the Swiss firm who made the timing device that the remains of a printed circuit board shown in evidence had been supplied to the CIA by him.

    There is no mystery about what happened, in July 1988 America shot down an Iranian airliner and in December 1988 Iran got their revenge. What needs to be established is the role of the British government and Scottish legal system in the stitch up.

    There are no good guys, no white hats, not Libya not Iran not Palestine, not the USA not Britain and not Scotland. There are no bad countries, just bad people and there were bad people playing the same bad game in every country.

  77. “Megrahi (innocent or not) was part of the penance Ghaddafi’s pay for his atonement, along with the two billion dollars to grease the palms of anyone that cared to lay a claim on the free money made available by the now departed colonel. Other than the LSE which was vilified for taking money from his son.”

    Ghaddafi didn’t actually pay the compensation himself, he passed the bill on to the American oil companies operating in Libya and told them to cough up or lose their licenses.

    Neat, aint it.

  78. Hi all. Can I ask people to keep discussion as to whether a comment is on-topic or not to a minimum? The guidelines here for several years has been that comments at the start of the thread really ought to be directly related to the blog post, and then things drift to current affairs and occasional small asides as the thread lengthens.

    I suggest that if a particular poster’s contribution annoys, then just simply do not engage with that person. It is everyone’s right to interact with whoever they wish.

  79. Ghaddafi didn’t actually pay the compensation himself, he passed the bill on to the American oil companies operating in Libya and told them to cough up or lose their licenses.

    ROFL!

    An interesting concept, the oil companies turning out to be such a benevolent benefactors to aid Ghaddafi by paying his fines for him. this line of thought verily claims the oil for free, and the elegant consequence of it would be for the oil companies to get a payment for taking the oil out of the ground and getting it away! That filthy stuff is bad for the planet, bad for the people, and is a toxic waste that has to be manged by the efficient waste management techniques of the oil companies!

    Now that is a novel way of dealing with the johnny foreigner, no beads, mirrors, and fire water, and instead expecting some kind of payment for taking away their wares/chattel/land/oil/organs.

    I cannot write for laughing, thanks for the laughs, I really needed this laugh.

  80. Nevermind 21 Jun, 2013 – 9:55 am
    “… and I expect us to enter a period of anarchy in all its forms.”

    We can dream. A beautiful future born from a proud tradition where, having recognised that power corrupts, we have dismantled the mechanisms that allow corruption and repression. A world where we each take responsibility for our lives and do not invite a mental minority to divide and rule us. No ceos nor ministers! No royalty nor rock stars! Just us in a world of respect and cooperation. Beautiful!

    We can dream of such a future. As I get older I increasingly think it’s our only hope of survival as a species. Personally I wouldn’t want me ruling anything. Nor you. Yes we can dream. In the meantime we could collectivise workplaces and question all authority. Which is what I’m off to do after I’ve walked the dog.

  81. Just cannot believe how this thread has deteriorated into mindless anarchy where anything and everyone is discussed in a completely chaotic fashion. Outdoes the al-Nilli ones in just a few pages.

    Having tried to get a line on Edward Snowden’s spying – what the thread’s topic illustrated – and connecting it to the Michael Hastings murder – what reminds me so much of Jorg Haider’s murder by the Mossad, my posts have been on topic.

    Instead other posters have engaged in all kinds of character assassination. including me, other covert assassinations which don’t have any relationship to Hastings’, and pure convenient escapism, just to mention a few diversions.

    I am leaving, and will only return if the following events occur: HK is actually asked to hand over Snowden, China offers him asylum, he somehow gets to Iceland, and Hastings’ assassination is discussed as a covert improvement on the Haider one where no fire occurred after the uncontrollable VW hit a wall at incredibly high speed.

  82. Flaming June

    22 Jun, 2013 - 1:15 pm

    The BBC hierarchy.

    Simon Waldman, morning editor BBC News Channel was on Newswatch this morning, a TV programme. He was justifying breaking into Obomber’s speech in Belfast with live coverage of the DoE leaving hospital.

    During the conversation with Samira Ahmed, it was revealed that the BBC had 48‘journalists’ covering the G8. Anazing.

    Waldman writes on the Editors’ Blog and this comes from his entry on 9/11, such a dramatic day although he leaves out the part where the BBC presenter reported the collapse of WTC7 before it actually happened!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/blogcollegeofjournalism/posts/my_911_when_the_first_tower_co

    ‘The impact of that September afternoon, particularly on those caught up in the attacks and the families and friends of the victims, cannot be underestimated. The world changed radically that day. I think the BBC newsroom changed too. We began with what seemed to be a potentially interesting ‘picture’ story. We went rapidly through a kaleidoscope of reaction and emotion – fascination, incomprehension, disbelief, dawning realisation, numbing horror.

    We were dealing with terrorism on a so-far unimaginable scale, and yet the newsroom team simply got on with the job. For many, it was only later – that night, or even days afterwards – that the scale of what had happened began to hit home.’

    He is certainly correct that the world changed drastically that day. It was the start of the ‘War on Terror’, now ongoing for 12 years into an never ending future.

    ~~

    I was wondering whether he is related to the late Ronnie Waldman who was a big name in earlier days at the BBC. If so, it’s more of the BBC incestuous nepotism.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronnie_Waldman

  83. Guano, there is an island off North Berwick that is covered in guano. North Berwick is where Robert Louis Stevenson used to go for summer holidays as a child. It is thought that another of the small islands off the East Lothian coast was the inspiration for ‘Treasure Island’.

    Please convey my regards to Long John Silver (and his parrot, which survived to the age of 101 and which, I am told by those who know, was able to recite the Odyssey backwards in six languages).

    ************

    As Jon I think suggests, to some extent, creative digression is one means of broadening the muscles of the mind. It does not impede us seeking truth, quite the opposite. I agree with Trowbridge, though, wrt personal attacks on other posters. Life’s too short.

  84. As to the suspicion that the G* attendees and indeed the Bilderburgers were electronically surveilled by the UKs elite spy agencies and eavesdroppers, in their multi-party formal discussions and in their private asides, round the clock, the answer is quite obviously an emphatic yes. That the masters of the universe are scrutinised in their communciations, in their every waking and sleeping moment is as assured as that many of us proles are or cna be too, in uninvasive ways, on the flimsiest pretexts or on none at all but simply caught in a vast collection net, for later misinterpretation and misuse. Peter Wright in his dull as ditchwater Spycatcher book described a large international conference, on which matters I cannot recall, in the early 70s, with heads of state and government from a myriad of nations, taking place in a building called Lancaster House, after its extensive ‘refurbishment’, Wright assured us that their wasn’t a square foot of the building, from bedroooms, to conference halls, to restaurants, to the extensive grounds, that wasn’t wired for sound. With newer technology today and infinite storage capability, improvements in audio electronics and of course video, such as the ability to refine and polish the end of a single hair-like microscopic glass fibre, to form a lens, there can be no doubt the capabilities are now beyond imagination. From Cameron gargling and pulling faces in the mirror in the morning and Miliband practising ‘sincerity’, to the clink of Ken Clarke’s secreted whisky bottles, Boris’s bonking and infinitely darker doings, there can be no secrets and no hiding place, and it’s a terrible state that we are in.

    As I type this the hoover is idly chewing the carpet, taps are running and splashing, the tin-foil lined hood of my ‘Lord Anthony’ parka is zipped up fully with the nylon fur tickling my nose and still I have doubts –that seagull, is it the same one I saw yesterday?

  85. Hey, great news, NATO allies! We Americans are making great progress in America’s MRAP abandonment-and-demolition initiative for America’s triumphant victory rout in liberated Afghanistan.
    http://www.3ad.org/images/533mi_images/Highway%20%20of%20Death1.jpg
    Coming along nicely!

  86. Just to goad and make the ire of the monotonous routine of the moanings about the change of subject;

    The world we are living in, has become more Hobbsian world of “survival of the cheats”, where there is no longer any joy to be found in the journey and only the destination and getting there matters, never mind how the culprits got there.

    Mother Arrested for Taking English Exam On Behalf of Daughter

    Before anyone jumps into Muslim bashing and proclaiming the “Burka/hijab” must be banned, and women liberated and all that malarkey. The woman in question was wearing; was dressed in Converse boots and low-waist skinny jeans and wore thick makeup.

    Probably her stretch marks gave the game away (I have deployed a Kevlar screen protection, so females do your worst)!!

    Not withstanding the above a seventy two year old man has been jailed for cheating in a fishing competition:

    … isn’t Mead’s first suspicious fish rodeo. He’s been convicted of two other fish-related charges since 2009: fishing over the limit and fishing with illegal hooks. But he’ll have some time to think on his crimes; he’s lost his hunting and fishing license for two years in a radius around Bemidji County, and he’s banned from any fishing contests for four years. That’s what you get when you’re angling for trouble.

    Oh the power of mob rule:

    . As Mead was being escorted off the ice by Hubbard County police, the crowd shouted, “Cheater! Cheater!”

  87. NSA whistleblower Russ Tice joins us for an eyeopening hour-long interview on the real extent of the NSA spying scandal. Beyond PRISM and beyond metadata, we explore the facts of NSA spying: that every electronic communication is being copied and stored by the US government. We talk about the political implications of this information, including the almost limitless power for blackmailing that this power gives those in charge of the wiretapping. Tice also names names on who has been targeted by these wiretaps. Please also see the recent BoilingFrogsPost interview with Tice on this same subject.

    http://www.corbettreport.com/interview-685-russ-tice-reveals-the-truth-about-nsa-spying/

  88. I haven’t updated myself as far as here. I just popped in to say that I’ll be back eventually. Too much of anything gets tiresome and this place had become tiresome to me. So I’m having a break.

    In the meantime, I hope Craig got some relief for his heel.

    Beannacht

  89. Sofia Zabolotna-Habbercake

    22 Jun, 2013 - 2:55 pm

    Suhayl, Trowbridge, Jon, Technicolour and others. You will know who you are.

    I’ve been thinking and observing your comments recently and I have to admit …” personal attacks on other posters. Life’s too short…”

    Isn’t it the false narratives and constant propaganda that needs to be challenged and dismantled, rather than the individuals who peddle them?

    I know I find it hard resist taking the piss, and I’ve justified it to myself with the rational that, like rooks mobbing a hawk, it alerts the rookery and keeps the predator occupied. And I have to admit, it has given me pleasure to get up the noses of, and keep occupied, those who I think are distracting or bullying. But I do trust that this rookery is bright enough to see what’s going on anyway and the flow of interesting information and debate seems to go on anyhow.

    So, at the end of the day, I realise I have just become another kind of troll myself.
    I’m going to try leaving Dad and certain others in peace and concentrate on seeking clarity and looking for ways out of the mess that their doctrines have us in.

    Maybe for Winter Solstice or the New Year I’ll let off some steam, but you never know, I might have become a grown-up myself by then.

    Thanks to all who have been so tolerant of my rantings.

  90. Trowbridge, the conditions which you stipulate need to be satisfied before you will return strike me as utterly unachievable.

    You will return if:

    HK is actually asked to hand over Snowden.
    China offers him asylum.
    He somehow gets to Iceland.
    Hastings’ assassination is discussed as a covert improvement on the Haider one where no fire occurred after the uncontrollable VW hit a wall at incredibly high speed.

    I like reading your posts, don’t you think you could soften these conditions a bit, thereby allowing you to return without loss of face?

    Don’t worry about the off topic posts, they are all part of the fun. It’s like going to the pub. We talk seriously for a while and then by page 3 we chew the fat about stuff in general. You like going to the pub don’t you?

  91. Dreoilin, the Queen of Irish Light, again has done a ‘Fu Manchu': “I will return… !”

    King of Welsh Darkness, no doubt Trowbridge, unlike Fu Macnhu, will return only if Nigella (Lawson, whose sister-in-law’s brother allegedly was an SIS officer) admits that all along she has been a clever GI-Op (gastrointestinal operation, also known in the trade as a ‘jobby-op’) who has been inducing us all to consume more and more fat while imagining carnal congress and thus to clog our thinking processes beyond repair.

    Willy Wonka arguably falls into the same category. Unless Willy admits that he is working for the gastronomic-industrial complex, I absolutely refuse to eat my hat!

  92. “Fu Macnhu” – the Hebridean Gaelic version of ‘Fu Manchu’.

  93. Of course, you win, as I shall return if you talk about the murder of Princess Diana in the Mercedes W140 where no fireball occurred in conditions where one was more likely if it could.

    Chalk up another one for Mossad. It hated her.

  94. Or else, might it have been the Increment, with a strobe light, a motorbike and a follow-up car? And falsified blood results? I’ve met establishment people who privately believe – though they do not know, cannot be certain – that Princess Diana was assassinated by those who see themselves as appointed by history to act on behalf of the institution of British Royalty. Who knows?

  95. On the basis (at root) of,

    “Ye canne hae a woag in the Hoose ae Cairds…”

    That might have been what tipped it, on top of the years of loose cannon-balls. Oh yes, there are high-up people in this country who would kill for that – for much less.

  96. Isn’t it strange they call themselves the Friends of Syria when the real friends aren’t members of the group at all?

    Habby, before you say it, i know Assad is no angel, but is it really worth upsetting the whole secular apple-cart? Difficult one to navigate but i think even in this horrible nation-state paradigm humanity lives in, sovereignty needs to be upheld.

  97. “Fu Macnhu” – the Hebridean Gaelic version of ‘Fu Manchu’.

    Now that I had to read twice and then laugh.

    ===========

    Of course, you win, as I shall return if you talk about the murder of Princess Diana in the Mercedes W140 where no fireball occurred in conditions where one was more likely if it could.

    The lady concerned was pretty much at logger heads with the respective in-laws, whom had entered into correspondence by addressing her a “diseased whore”. Do you contend the contract was put out to tender, and the lowest tender won? Or was it a favour that was called upon?

  98. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 4:15 pm

    Trowbridge; codshit has but a handful of articles on Diana, and seem to be media reprints for the most part.

    Not a single one from you young man :)

  99. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 4:16 pm

    She had enemies from within and without. Spending time with muslim men put the Queen off.

  100. Sofia: “So, at the end of the day, I realise I have just become another kind of troll myself.”

    If you use those meaningless cliche’s “at the end of the day”, you’re no daughter of Habbakuk. At any rate, regards your confession ” I have just become…” etc , weren’t you born here for that chosen purpose in the first place, Ms Habbercake?

    Btw how’s Kibo Noh doing?

    ” I’m going to try leaving….”

    Or is this supposed to be Sofia’s long goodbye, only to return as Kibo? Interesting though as it is that, in your opening line: “Suhayl, Trowbridge, Jon, Technicolour and others. You will know who you are.”, Kibo Noh’s name is conspicuous by its absence.

    While i was earlier predicting that one will fall away which so far it has, now i’m predicting that both will be gone, of course only with a new alias, at the end of the day. :-)

  101. @suhayl

    “Who knows?”

    The fundamentally scary thing is that we would not discount the possibility. It’s not the truth of the proposition that is frightening, it’s that gloomily acknowledged plausibility.

  102. Dreoilin
    22 Jun, 2013 – 2:52 pm
    ‘I haven’t updated myself as far as here. I just popped in to say that I’ll be back eventually. Too much of anything gets tiresome and this place had become tiresome to me. So I’m having a break.”

    Dreolin too true, the place had become too tiresome — may be a little fresher now. Had Craig been reading the comments here he might, poor chap, have developed a pain in the other heel. Hope not and wish him well!

    Even poor Technicolour was writing comments last night that she couldn’t believe for herself, of course, as well meant as always.

    Thank you for your catalysing role though in bringing sanity back and wish you endless Universal energy.

  103. Villager, Sovereignty is about to get a boost, that’s the part of the problem. A window is closing and the US permanent government wants to sneak through it in time. From the Rome Statute definition of aggression, Article 8 bis clause 2g, recently accepted by NATO linchpin Germany, aggression is also… “The sending by or on behalf of a State of armed bands, groups, irregulars or mercenaries, which carry out acts of armed force against another State of such gravity as to amount to the acts listed above, or its substantial involvement therein.”

    The prospect of US aggression in Iraq triggered a rush of accessions to the Rome Statute. If, when 8 bis enters into force, the US is still sending armed bands into the Mideast and violating Pakistan’s sovereignty with armed attacks against the civilian population, career planning gets trickier for aspiring elder statesmen like Obama and his CIA handler Ben Rhodes. No foreign Bilderberg holidays.

  104. Flaming June

    22 Jun, 2013 - 5:11 pm

    Brave men, Julian Assange and Edward Snowden.

    “Government secrecy has been expanding on a terrific scale. Simultaneously, human privacy has been secretly eradicated … The U.S. government is spying on each and every one of us, but it is Edward Snowden who is charged with espionage for tipping us off.”

    WikiLeaks’ Assange urges support for Snowden, slams Obama ‘betrayal’
    By Laura Smith-Spark, CNN

    June 22, 2013 — Updated 1513 GMT (2313 HKT)

    London (CNN) — WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange urged the world Saturday to “stand with” Edward Snowden, the man who admitted leaking top-secret details about U.S. surveillance programs, according to the text of a speech posted on Twitter.

    As he appealed for a “brave country” to step forward and offer Snowden asylum, Assange also accused U.S. President Barack Obama of betraying a generation of “young, technically minded people.”

    Assange was scheduled to speak from the balcony of the Ecuadorian Embassy in London on Saturday, but the appearance was postponed at short notice “due to a security situation,” WikiLeaks said on Twitter.

    Wednesday marked a year since Assange sought refuge in the embassy to avoid extradition to Sweden, where he is wanted for questioning over allegations that he raped one woman and sexually molested another.

    /..
    http://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/22/world/europe/uk-wikileaks-assange/?hpt=hp_t1

  105. Since SS, you are on my site radar, I shall respond.

    There are all kinds of theories about her murder – and that is quite clear – the only likely one she had was about Charles having it in for her, and in my theory, the Mossad was only doing the dirty work with the Benz, etc.

    It all illustrates thinking that the wrong people are out to get you, making it most helpful for the real people who want you done in, do it.

    Remember Hastings thought that the Bureau – which is quite happy to get rid of its own troublemakers, like agent Steve Ivens – was out to kill him when, at best, it was only setting him up for the Mossad.

    This way Israel got rid of the strongest supporter, Di, of the Occupied Territories, and Charles got rid of what he thought was his biggest obstacle to becoming king.

    Just shows what conspiracies can achieve, along with unexpected consequences or results.

  106. You, Ben, are certainly on my site radar.

    I think that codshit, like me, has not paid attention to the fact that Di was murdered.

    i think that the Harrods connection put us off, and we never even suspected that the car’s driving computers had been taken over by the Mossad.

    It was all the drinking, especially by the driver. that did it.

    And killing neo.-Nazi Jorg Haider seemed like a one-off by the Mossad that we couldn’t get too excited about.

    Killing not onlt Hastings but also Di will certainly get a new effort by me, and be posted somewhere.

  107. Trolls don’t bother me and off topic I like.

    Flouncers I find irritating.

  108. Krupp, thank you for that valuable and sharp insight. Its amazing how quickly ‘actions’ can be put into place when paperwork can take years to negotiate through.

    Btw, one doesn’t see China being very vocal at all on Syria. Where do they stand on this stark reality?

  109. John Kerry accuses Assad of “internationalising” the war! These guys are lying fucking warmongers, there’s no other way to put it. Who’s been funding and arming the heart-eating animals al Nusra? Is Kerry on the same fucking planet as the rest of us?

    The UN say there’s no way of telling who has used chemical weapons. Not a word of that on the BBC. Turn the thing off. Shun the liars.

  110. Sofia Zabolotna-Habbercake

    22 Jun, 2013 - 6:06 pm

    @Villager. 4 38pm

    WTF?

    Sofia’s still lodged well up your nose?

    She popped into being with the chosen purpose of distracting Habba in his relentless bullying of Mary. That was it.

    She soon noticed that, though she was, by her own admission a fictional 13 and a half year old girl, she clearly got under the skin of these individuals, as some of your very unkrishnamurtian insults testify. So she felt she served a purpose. While time was spent targeting her, (she’s an angry, hormone-plagued girl who doesn’t give a shit what hypocritical grown-ups think of her), the real contributers could be left in peace to scurry through cyber-space collecting interesting links and facts.

    But once she’d got found a channeller she wouldn’t shut up and soon enough she had broadened her horizons and was winding up others who she felt had a more subtle, but equally distracting, intention.

    From the start she has kept the name-calling on the soft end of the spectrum, unless you think “old fool” and “plonker” are genuinely offensive. She was gratified to see what a venoumous and hysterical array of insults were returned, from yourself and others.
    She also quickly noticed that things as harmless as a badly-spelt word or grammatical error would often evoke howls of indignant protest. She still finds that really funny.

    Her only real regret is that, on occasion, she accidentally upset the very people she felt she was writing her stuff for. For that she’s sorry.

    You seem to have quite an obsession with Kibo, who is clearly sometimes is moved by similar feelings.

    She/he wasn’t the only poster covered by the blanket of “you know who you are.” There are just too many bright and compassionate posters on these threads for her to list. They all make her think. She appreciates them all.

    So “at the end of the day” she thinks the rambling, anarchic and wonderful comment threads of Craig Murray’s blogs provide both great insight and occasional entertainment, which, to have real effect will hopefully percolate out into a myriad of world-changing conversations.

    She didn’t intend any kind of goodbye. She was just saying she’d done some thinking and decided that it was delusional narratives rather than their promoters that she would try to address. How long she’ll manage to that is anyone’s guess.

  111. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 6:10 pm

    Hows the weather over there?

    http://www.sat24.com/?culture=en

  112. @ Phil, thanks, you could not have described anarchy any more beautiful than you have. Thinking for oneself is seen as dangerous, if you want to eat healthy food, care about sustainable cycles, community projects promoting alternative energies, or the democratic deficit and personal privacy, then you are suspicious, a troublemaker.

    The NSA story is running away, they can’t shut it down, despite D notices, people are now clued up, but they are not sussed enough to encrypt their emails, but with increasing persecution of whistle-blowers, calling them spies and terrorists, when they merely point out the state of control we are subjected to already, people will eventually loose trust in official reasoning as they can only see knee jerk officialdom and book throwing from our authorities.

    So the virulent reactions are counter productive and this counter productivity is mushrooming perpetually with every new information flow that leaks from their data orifice, we have been had and we know it, so encryption is not far away,imho.

  113. Flouncer Gordon Thomas threw me off, Ben about the Mossad’s murder of Princess Diana when he wrote in Gideon’s Spies that it had tried to recruit driver Henri Paul to kill her, and that he refused.

    Little did I realize that this disinformation was to give the Mossad a cover for the mission which it carried out by taking over the driving computers, and killing not only Di but also fall guy driver in the process.

  114. China got to sign the UN Charter first, as the first victim of aggression by an Axis power, and it appreciates that distinction. China invoked the UN Charter over the Daiyou Islands but in the case of Syria, China seems to be sticking to non-legal language like ‘tensions.’ In fact, China has kept Syria out of ICC’s investigative purview. They seem leery of the Libyan precedent under Moreno-Ocampo. They may well feel that ICC is not ready for prime time.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/un-human-rights-commissioner-navi-pillay-pretext-maker-for-western-military-aggression/5323569

  115. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 6:27 pm

    The reason Snowden chose China is the extradition treaty is incomplete and excludes political matters. The US made a mistake not indicting him for criminal violations, so there you have it.

  116. So why all the hype by Snowden, and the Incompence by America’s security state?

    Seems that Snowden went to HK, knowing that the Chinese would be obliged to let him stay there while fanning the flames about the USA’s willingness and ability to get him when, in fact, it made sure that there is no way in hell of doing so

    Looks like my original version of Snowden’s disclosures is correct – i.e., he reacted to the Agency’s effort to set him up as a pillow-take spy, like Ben Bishop, by arranging an escape, and release of classified documents which would make his helpless minders look like the fools they are.

    Looks more like a most clever self-server than anyone’s real spy.

  117. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 7:03 pm

    “Looks more like a most clever self-server than anyone’s real spy.”

    It’s too stupid a mistake, to be a mistake. Could he be a trojan horse?

  118. Time for a new post, Craig.

    This is turning into Mumsnet…

  119. resident dissident

    22 Jun, 2013 - 7:35 pm

    @Cryptonym

    “Libya under Gadaffi was probably the closest any country had ever come to a practical realisation of the theory of democracy, blah, blah………….”

    You are one of Gerry Healy’s “love” children and I claim my £5

    I just had a look at most of this thread and I wish I hadn’t bothered. The above sample only gets highlighted for being the most stupid of many contenders.

    Craig is still clearly banging on with his one sided view of interenational law when it is only breaches by one side of the argument that appear to matter. Perhaps he might wish to comment on why Iran sending troops into Syria, Hezbollah doing likewise (to say nothing of their use of suicide bombers), Syria’s blowing up of a Lebanese Prime Minister, Syria’s illegal occupation of Lebanon, the Assad dynasty’s myriad breaches of human rights law do not also represent clear breaches of international law. Perhaps he should also consider that the underlying purpose of the framework of international law that was set up after WW2 was to prevent dictators becoming established before they trash the human rights of their citizens and destroy the peace of their neighbours – and why said international law clearly failed in the case of Assad and Syria many years ago.

  120. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 8:26 pm

    @ Trowbridge H. Ford :

    “Chalk up another one for Mossad. It hated her {ie, Princess Diana}”
    ____________

    You will keep throwing around these ex cathedra statements, won’t you.

    So here’s a challenge : please tell us why “Mossad hated Princess Diana”.

    In your own words and not by simply linking to websites or your own blog.

    Off you go!

  121. Krupp thank you for your response and that link. The depth of some of the information there is new to me, and judging by earlier comments, probably to many others here.

    Btw, two questions — do you have an update on the status of reconstitution of the permanent members of the Security Council, and do you see the BRICS countries coming together at anytime as some sort of a counterbalance to the West? In other words can we expect any such thing as global peace within our generation??? Or is this just wishful thinking?

    I cannot believe the way we human beings live. Was it Aldous Huxley who said that Earth may be another planet’s Hell?

  122. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 8:43 pm

    Hi Villager

    Is Technicolour female? The thought never occurred to me and I’m astounded (but quite pleased, actually).

    @ Resident Dissident – good to see you back. Happy we share the same opinion about the Libya under Gaddafi bit.

  123. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 8:51 pm

    @ Villager

    The answer to your question on the BRICs is “no”.

    Given the juxtaposition and order of your sentences, I hope you aren’t so optimistic as to believe that ‘global peace within our generation’ would be achieved if only the Security Council was recast and the BRICs constitute a ‘counter-balance’ to the West.

    Finally, to complement your very last sentence, was it not Sartre who said “Hell is other people”?

    Greetings from Habbabkuk, lord of all he surveys.

  124. Sofia: “She was gratified to see what a venoumous and hysterical array of insults were returned, from yourself and others.”

    Do you have any examples of my insults to you? Anyway you have earned my pity and recognition that you are so lost there isn’t a chance you could help change anything on this planet. Re Kibo, keep it in check for sock-puppeting is forbidden here.

    “Isn’t it the false narratives and constant propaganda that needs to be challenged and dismantled, rather than the individuals who peddle them?”

    You poor soul, you really are so lost. Forgive me for repeating, I really meant that. I was reminded that Aldous Huxley who was a friend of K’s wrote a preface to one of his books — you might find that and read it for starters. Night, night.

  125. As the humungous scale of the NSA/GCHQ/Five Eyes Total Interception/Tempora/Prism – or whatever today’s latest project acronym is – begins to fully sink in, I think there’s going to be quite a few oh-oh moments like this one, as people put two and two together (and freak out completely):

    http://www.genewatch.org/uploads/f03c6d66a9b354535738483c1c3d49e4/DNAinNHS_GWbriefing_fin.pdf

    Sample quote:
    “Under this proposal, everyone’s NHS medical records and genomes [ie. their individual DNA profile] will be shared with companies such as Google without people’s knowledge or consent. Data-sharing will be global…”

    True story. Project has been snuck through by UK government without telling the public and it’s due to launch this month. Yikes!

  126. The edl turned up at the people’s assembly today. A small number, surrounded by police, walked straight into the throngs outside. Obviously they were challenged and there was a fracas. I had a copper say to me, “if you hit me again I’ll arrest you”. I had hit no one. Which the copper knew full well. I had asked why he wasn’t arresting an edl who had punched the man next to me. The punch had been delivered over a copper’s shoulder and the copper had then stood between us and the assailant. I saw two edl land punches on people but the police did nothing. I saw no edl arrested. But the police did arrest non-edl.

    It wasn’t overly violent, mostly pushing and shouting. The nerve of a handfull of racists to assault a mainstream political event in westminster was surprisingly ballsy. But the blatant favour and protection offered to the racists by the police was the real surporise. Very ominous. From Athens to London.

  127. On topic.
    Seems like it’s getting even more messy.
    “They are killing each other.”
    http://rt.com/op-edge/syria-dangers-arming-rebels-048/

    .
    Where are the UN lawyers on this issue?
    “….a boon to the lawyers is asset seizure, to which the Saudi Royals are very vulnerable because they have extensive personal holdings all over the world, particularly in public companies. As for the evidence, there is an endless supply of retired Intel people who can supply it, plus modern data-mining can update older information in a jiffy.”
    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/06/21/310084/saudi-arabia-and-support-for-terrorism/

  128. There’s more:

    DNA data to be shared worldwide in medical research project
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/05/dna-genetic-data-shared-medical-research?INTCMP=SRCH

    The subhead on this article claims that only anonymised DNA records will go in the database, but that can’t be the whole story otherwise the article wouldn’t also include this bit:

    “We recently intercepted a young woman who was about to have a mastectomy because of a genetic mutation which we’ve now shown isn’t a problem,”

  129. Vauxhall Q Footbridge III (Definitely not Kempe, no not at all)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 9:40 pm

    MOSSAD had to kill Diana because she was on the verge of converting to Islam so she could marry Dodi Fayed. As a crucial part of the Islamic conversion ceremony Diana would have had to openly reject and condemn her previous religion which would have exposed her as being a Jew. Not only that but both her sons were born and raised in the Jewish faith, what else would explain Harry’s eagerness to kill Muslims and William losing his hair just where his caplet would rub? Once king William (AKA Velvev) will pass laws making Britain a Jewish nation, driving out the Muslims and Christians and making the country a vassal to the state of Israel.

  130. why Iran sending troops into Syria, Hezbollah doing likewise (to say nothing of their use of suicide bombers), Syria’s blowing up of a Lebanese Prime Minister, Syria’s illegal occupation of Lebanon, the Assad dynasty’s myriad breaches of human rights law do not also represent clear breaches of international law.

    As ever the bollocks of unconscious drivel getting spewed, with a one sided and jaundiced view of anything outside of the corporate medjia’s remit. Iran is sending troops to rebuild the almighty destruction unleashed on Syria by the very democratic regimes in Saudi, Qatar, their sponsored mercenaries equipped by arms supplied by the US, et al and injected through Turkey and Jordan. The whole murderous affair getting choreographed by the mercenary for hire Erik Prince ensconced in Qatar. All the while with the active support and planning, of the US and co.

    The old crap about “democracy” and “human rights” are such a worn out, and fucked up excuses, considering the episodes of Iraq, Afghanistan, Abu Ghraib, Gitmo, Patriot act, Prism, Spies R us ……… These excuses no longer whitewash the theft of the resources, and repression of the owners of these resources.

    When Lebanon joins in to protect their own interests, this is portrayed as; Hezbollah terrorists fighting the “rebels”. However the same bunch of tossers complaining about the involvement of the neighbours of Syria to stop the “game changing” shenanigans of those sitting umpteen thousands of miles away and ordering the massacre, destruction of Syrians, all the while supporting the ziofuckwits and the ongoing murder fest and land theft in Palestine.

    The shameless bastards who defend such an unjust crimes against peace and crimes against humanity then wax lyrical about the “international law”!! That is fucked up taken to a new level.

  131. Thanks, V. Last I heard, the Small Five – Costa Rica, Jordan, Liechtenstein, Singapore and Switzerland (S-5) – had proposed:

    • End the P-5’s improvised back-room deals with formal UNSC rules of order.
    • Impose due process for lifting the sanctions that the P-5 impose for decades on end.
    • End the impunity that the P-5 enjoy by holding serious crimes to account, using all measures under international law.
    • Encourage the P-5 to vote no without invoking the veto power of Article 27(3).
    • Require the P-5 to justify their vetoes in terms of international law.
    • Prohibit vetoes of UN measures against the most serious crimes.

    The Small Five’s 21 points didn’t directly attack the UN’s fundamental inequities, the restricted membership of the Security Council and the veto. Those are tough nuts.

    Security Council expansion is complicated by the member states’ ambitions. Members are jockeying for position with competing proposals for permanent, renewable, or rotating seats held for various terms. Coalitions bid for new seats, weighing their ideals of rights and law against national and regional interests. The permanent members undercut broadened participation by appealing to national ambitions.

    No new member stands to gain a veto, and the P-5 refuse to cede their own. So the 21 points tried to moderate the veto power. They would subordinate the veto to the rule of law and establish precedents restricting its scope and discouraging its use. The United States, as the worst abuser of the veto, had the most to lose.

    But the S-5 withdrew the proposal when Secretariat legal counsel killed it by demanding an impossible two-thirds majority for adoption. The Small Five aimed for majority approval of their resolution, which anyway depended on the consent of the UNSC for compliance.

    Oh well. This is a project of generations, and the rule of law bloc is not giving up.

    This is a good source, http://www.centerforunreform.org/node/13

  132. Hi there Habby, re TC, yes i’m pretty sure and a soulful one at that. Clearly one of the deeper personalities around here.

    And I’m not an optimist at all, in fact if anything i tend to lapse to pessimism — for the most part i try to bring myself back to realism and awareness, the constancy of which is one of the most difficult things to be with. Still, i must say, the lack of inundation by a constant stream and barrage of random posts is helpful towards that reflective mind.

    In the same spirit i tend also to be very naive, hence my BRICS and UNSC questions. As we approached the turn of this millennium, the biggest news stories were Y2K and Blow jobs in the Oval Office. WE were (mis)lead to believe that we were marching into the rainbow. Then look what happened and where we are. But in summary, as one who understands debits and credits, the biggest hoax being pulled on us is the spend by the West (and others) on the accepted euphemism of ‘Defence’ while billions of our fellow humans live in hunger, thirst for clean drinking water and in miserable poverty. Its offensive in avery ugly way.

    Finally another of Huxley “There’s only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that’s your own self.”
    Time Must Have a Stop (1944)

    Our armchair activists who behave like they own the total space of compassion in the world — well we’ve seen how much grace some of them have. They take themselves ever so seriously and want to reprimand others who don’t immediately go ‘hear hear’. And then grace, the one thing in the shortest supply in this world goes out the window. I still can’t get over sweet Dreolin being called ‘petty’. But i’m ready now.

  133. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 10:31 pm

    “I just had a look at most of this thread and I wish I hadn’t bothered”

    Yet you got your two pence in, so it wasn’t a complete waste, now was it?

  134. Sofia Zabbalotna-Habbercake

    22 Jun, 2013 - 10:34 pm

    @ Krruppp

    Thanks. Good on the S5! I hope they keep plugging their proposals.

    …………………………………..

    @Villager 9 01pm
    “You poor soul, you really are so lost.”

    What is your problem?

    If you can’t remember your insults then try reviewing the “Arming Syria Thread” from the evening of the 16th on and on thru this “UN” thread. Do the looking yourself. You aren’t going to distract me again.

    And what on earth upsets you about me writing ….. “Isn’t it the false narratives and constant propaganda that needs to be challenged and dismantled, rather than the individuals who peddle them?”

    Re your final paragraph about Huxley and his friend K. I’m sorry but I just can’t understand it what it has got to do with any of this stuff. I’ve no argument with either of those great men.

    Why are we wasting our time squabbling among ourselves and not discussing how to counter (as Fedup (9 46pm) puts it …“The shameless bastards who defend such an unjust crimes against peace and crimes against humanity then wax lyrical about the “international law!”

    Let’s talk about how we can empower the UN to do it’s job for once and rein in the dogs of war?

  135. “Hows the weather over there?”

    Fine, cool breeze.

    It’s been overcast unfortunately I was hoping to see the perigee moon, maybe it will be clearer tomorrow.

  136. @phil

    I hope you enjoyed your dog walk and if is is what you wanted; you found some friendship peace and tranquility.

    Enjoy your future dog walks and hold find memories of previous.

  137. Sorry typo – Fond.

  138. “I just had a look at most of this thread and I wish I hadn’t bothered”

    Surely you have something to say in response of KOWN’s post of;

    “No, I genuinely don’t believe in the existence of the ‘anti-West narrative’ that you frequently inveigh against. I do think most posters on this thread are united by disgust and anger for much of what the West does, but that is not the same thing. As for the examples you cite – mistreatment of women in India, for example – I think the reason people don’t post on such issues is simply that these things are universally condemned and hardly worth the effort of pointing out on a forum where it can be tacitly assumed most people are on the same page. What gets people’s goat here, I submit without a trace of faux-naivety, is those instances where there is a chasm between the cruel things the west does and the way they are laundered and perfumed by such organs as the BBC.”

    Which was actually addressed to the Hubbu-Clown troll, who of course didn’t answer, but instead chose to continue trolling after Mary; would you like to engage with what KOWN wrote ?

  139. Krupp thank you for enlightening us on the S-5 initiatives. I must admit i had NO KNOWLEDGE of these highly important, even if subtle, events.

    “But the S-5 withdrew the proposal when Secretariat legal counsel killed it by demanding an impossible two-thirds majority for adoption. The Small Five aimed for majority approval of their resolution, which anyway depended on the consent of the UNSC for compliance.

    Oh well. This is a project of generations, and the rule of law bloc is not giving up.”

    Which leads me to question why a 2/3’s majority is so difficult to achieve, but i imagine it has something to do with Imperialism, past and present. So that is where we come back to. But it would be good if some of these smaller countries you mentioned plus countries like Iceland and Bhutan would form their own grouping, meet regularly and provide a considered agenda that credibly challenges, even without the power-base, some of the fundamental existential inequities in the planet. I think the younger generation is ripe and ready to pick up on global policy issues with their own Govts on the streets. They could end up playing the role of Elder Statesmen, since we don’t really have any left on the Planet anymore.

    I remember sharing positive celebratory words with a young Belgian friend working with the EU commission and she cautioned with a well lets see if he acts on his promises now. How wise she was. How naive i was and still am.

    At any rate, this must be a first to be having an on-topic conversation so deep, relatively speaking, in a thread on this blog. It’s refreshing to speak with an expert rather than one more purveyor of bits from medialens and dissident voice or whatever. Nothing wrong with that, but its all about quotations, rather than creative, original, fresh thinking whatever the source. Thanks for the source.

  140. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 11:27 pm

    “MOSSAD had to kill Diana because she was on the verge of converting to Islam so she could marry Dodi Fayed. As a crucial part of the Islamic conversion ceremony Diana would have had to openly reject and condemn her previous religion which would have exposed her as being a Jew. Not only that but both her sons were born and raised in the Jewish faith, what else would explain Harry’s eagerness to kill Muslims and William losing his hair just where his caplet would rub? Once king William (AKA Velvev) will pass laws making Britain a Jewish nation, driving out the Muslims and Christians and making the country a vassal to the state of Israel.”
    ___________

    Brilliant piss-take against our amigo Trowbridge, congrats to the unknown author! :).

    Could you do one on man-made earthquakes some time (another Trowbridge speciality, I think)?

  141. Dear Sofia,
    As your father’s friend let me take you aside and share with you some home truths.

    Behind the dogs of war are the Dogs of Ignorance. Your father and I have crossed swords several times but we overcame them through grace, articulation of argument, an openness to understand each other, eventual mutual human respect and not least a sense of humour.

    You have a lot to learn about life, people, yourself. The latter apparently a self-propagated delusion as daughter of Habby. You might have pulled it off, had you half the sense of humour or intellect he has.

    Sorry to ‘distract you’, quite what i’m supposed to be distracting you from i haven’t figured.

    As for the UN, talk to Krupp — he seems immensely clued on. Good luck with your mission to change the world.

    Re “Re your final paragraph about Huxley and his friend K. I’m sorry but I just can’t understand it what it has got to do with any of this stuff. I’ve no argument with either of those great men.” Oh really, no argument, i’m sure they’re folding their hands in grace to be so lucky. But do you have the foggiest understanding of the limitations of thought, of knowledge and the ending of time? Thats what it has to do with — not signing the next petition that comes along. I petition the Lord with prayer on your behalf.

  142. “I remember sharing positive celebratory words with a young Belgian friend working with the EU commission and she cautioned with a well lets see if he acts on his promises now. How wise she was. How naive i was and still am.”
    Krupp that my reference was with to Obama’s original election.

    He has a lot more grey hair now but none the wiser imho.

  143. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 11:54 pm

    @ Macky

    You’re right, I do owe KingofWelshNoir a reply, which will follow tomorrow.

    As far as you’re concerned, my foul-mouthed and intemperate friend, I thought I’d send you this rather appropriate limerick for your bedtime reading. Please think of yourself as Lord Garsall in all but rhyme :

    “That snobbish surrealist, Garsall,
    Once did himself up in a parcel;
    He addressed it ‘Lord Garsall,
    The Keep, Garsall Castle’
    And mailed it first-class up his arsehole.”

  144. Good heaven !!

    Let that be a warning to everybody !

    If you befriend Habbu-Clown, you too will end up like Villager !

  145. Good heaven

    Let it be a lesson in identifying any number of members of a tag team quicker.

  146. At long last someone, somewhere has been forced to finally admit; the free ride is over! The fate of the US “democracy” brand is akin to that of ye olde USSR. Simply put, the US empire is imploding, and the last ditch attempts to keep it going (dronnings, wars, mass spying, repression, …..) are akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. The medjia pundits can print their printers out of ink all they manage, alas the facts are not going to change.

    Those of us who witnessed the implosion of the USSR, have for long seen the parallels in the recent events which have been unfolding. Why are the BRICs are crumbling? Welcome to the permanent revolution Note the last paragraph;

    In 1989, we learned that people prefer individual freedom to communism. Today, in many countries, it is capitalism that is associated with cronyism, repressive force and elite politics, and until that changes, this Human Spring looks likely to continue.

  147. Sofia writes:

    “Isn’t it the false narratives and constant propaganda that needs to be challenged and dismantled”

    Absolutely!!

    Sophisticated propaganda is built upon a false underlying narrative, myth, or story. That’s the key. It isn’t built of falsifications and lies just cobbled together, any which way.

    It has a fundamental narrative coherence, and that’s why it’s worked so well.

    The fundamental narrative of the West is, “We’re the good guys”. We can incorporate any critical or negative fact to that narrative, by simply saying that any seeming deviation from our “goodness” is a result of bad apples, mistakes, poor leadership, bad planning, unforeseen circumstances, necessity, and of course there’ll be an enquiry and we’ll learn lessons, apologize and move on etc.

    No matter what terror we visit upon others, the narrative, “We’re the good guys” thus remains.

    The primary function of our media is to ensure that all discourse is pivoted around the idea that we’re the good guys; that even the most horrible and disgusting of our crimes can be incorporated within that narrative of essential goodness.

    When the Pythons, at the setting of the sun upon the British Empire, asked ironically on behalf of its victims, “what have the Romans done for us”, they were essentially sustaining that narrative.

    The reason we rule the world today, and have ruled it for some several centuries now is precisely because we are very very very bad guys.

    And that’s a difficult narrative to sell to our own people.

  148. Thanks for the non-original limerick dear Clown, but you’re certainly no Kingsley Amis.

    There was a dull troll named Habbabkuk,
    Who thought himself somewhat of a hot-shot,
    Yet the only one who mistook him for genius,
    Was the appropriately named Village idiot.

  149. No, 2/3 shouldn’t be hard: c.f. the G-77+China, http://www.g77.org/doc/#aim
    now 4/5 of the world’s population and 2/3 of the UN membership vote:

    “We reaffirm that in our endeavours we are guided by all the principles and purposes of the United Nations Charter and by full respect for the principles of international law. To this end we uphold the principles of sovereignty and sovereign equality of States, territorial integrity and non intervention in the internal affairs of any State; take effective measures for the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of peace and encourage the settlement of international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered; refrain in international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations; develop friendly relations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self determination of peoples; achieve international cooperation in solving international problems of an economic, social, cultural or humanitarian character, and in promoting and encouraging respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language or religion.”

    Rule of law, that’s what they want. The US keeps it at bay only with exorbitant bribes and treacherous threats, pissing away its money and legitimacy. Every American hates their fucking government, hates it like the Germans hate the Stasi. Americans simply do not know of an alternative. Imagine if they found out what’s on offer in the civilized world.

  150. Cryptonym @ 22 june “2;48 am

    I have to Agree with that. Check out this video of Gaddafi Riding Through Tripoli Exposed from Waist up passing by many thousands of people. …Imagine Obomber, or cameron trying that one…The people would be well out numbered by the thugs in anti-riot armour

    The data in this Video is all factual

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRQ6uqhLvz8

  151. Sofia Zabolotna-Habbercake

    23 Jun, 2013 - 1:36 am

    Herbie 12 38am

    Spot on!

    “Sophisticated propaganda is built upon a false underlying narrative, myth, or story.”

    Even a fake 13.5yr old can get that. Thanks
    ……………………………………

    @Villager 11 41pm

    Let’s do a trade. I’ll answer two of your questions and you answer one of mine.

    You ask, “But do you have the foggiest understanding of the limitations of thought, of knowledge and the ending of time?”

    Well no. Not really. Nowhere near in fact. But I try hard enough to understand the world I find myself in and the people I encounter.

    You say “what i’m supposed to be distracting you from i haven’t figured.”

    This thread has a title, “Work for the UN.” Yes, you are distracting me from engaging with the subject of the thread.

    So, you have my two answers. Now let me ask you my question.
    Wh
    When you answered my earlier question, “Isn’t it the false narratives and constant propaganda that needs to be challenged and dismantled, rather than the individuals who peddle them?” with a patronising “You poor soul, you really are so lost”, just what did you mean​?

    I have fallen for this kind of distraction with you before, just as I have with Dad.

    I’ve also had this experience before of asking you a reasonable question and getting patronising insults instead of answers.

    I would love just this once to receive a genuine and clear reply.

    I know you don’t think much of me and you are welcome to remind me again, but please reply to my question.
    ………………………………………….

    Macky 12 39am

    I see you too are a student of the great William McGonnigle. But will you take care with that poetry! You might wake Kibo’s muse and you never know, he may launch into a nightmare version of “The Ancient Mariner” and clog the whole blog for weeks. Gods help us.

    Goodnight all.

  152. Sayanim tag team

    23 Jun, 2013 - 5:32 am

    I wish somebody would remind Villager (aka Kempe)& Co their virtual conga on this blog is fooling nobody. And Spurs fan Giles seems to have resurfaced
    as a Diana fan (or was it Habbakyke replying to himself), seems very Herzliya to me! Mod Jon of course is your typical dumb goy, unable to see through this cabala cabal that has obfuscated the real issues in this blog.

  153. @Brian.

    I have also knowledge of Gaddafi- $13 cents a gallon, free health care, add underground water system for agriculture and gold dinah.
    All of which are unsustainable.

    As always, we haven’t all the knowledge/information.

  154. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    23 Jun, 2013 - 8:23 am

    @ Macky (00h39)

    “Thanks for the non-original limerick dear Clown, but you’re certainly no Kingsley Amis.”
    ___________

    Indeed not, Macky.

    The limerick in question is quoted by Kingsley Amis in his “Memoirs” (Hutchinson, London, 1991, page 143); he ascribes it to Robert Conquest, writing under the pseudonym of Victor Gray.

  155. Flaming June

    23 Jun, 2013 - 8:52 am

    Statement by Julian Assange after One Year in Ecuadorian Embassy
    by Julian Assange
    June 22nd, 2013
    http://dissidentvoice.org/2013/06/statement-by-julian-assange-after-one-year-in-ecuadorian-embassy/

    ~~

    Meanwhile another brave young man is being hunted down by Amerika’s paid thugs. The word on Sky News is that he has left HK and is heading for Russia.

    ~~

    Phil @9.25pm I completely believe you.

    To the others – Good for successfully withstanding the double act in the early hours and to Fred, yes shame about the clouds obscuring the perigee moon. Perhaps better luck tonight. Moon gazing is better for the soul than reading the garbage anyway.

  156. Does anyone think the bodyguard, Rees-Jones, who survived the crash, has been frightened into silence? He seems to have experienced a rather conveniently circumscribed and permanent post-traumatic amnesia, even though, as far as one is aware, he remained conscious throughout his terrible ordeal.

    To be honest, in my conspiratorial mind, I’d half-expected his car to come off the road some years later, or something similar, but fortunately for he and his family, that hasn’t happened. Just as, in not dissimilar fashion, after 2003 I’d fully expected the USA/UK to plant WMD in Iraq in order to justify their invasion and destruction of that country. But that never happened, either, though it would’ve been very easy to have done so. Instead, the intelligence services took the flak. One is aware that it was the chamcha, Blair who ‘needed’ that particular piece of PR theatre; the psychotic Bush Admininstration needed no justification for invasion, since they ‘created their own realities’.

    Over the years, I have met people who have claimed that they have {I paraphrase] ‘done work for the government’ (the tacit assumption being that it was deniable, covert work, possibly Special Forces’ work) and who also claimed that their colleagues’ cars were [paraphrasing, again] ‘coming off the road… ‘. Indeed, ‘coming off the road’ seems to be a modus operandum, possibly because it’s so common in everyday life. As opposed to those other common metaphorical occurences of ‘going off the rails’ or ‘going round the bend’, perhaps.

    Whether the alleged ‘Diana Op’ was done by the UK or the UK and allies (UK, France and the much-loved bogeyman, Israel – a familiar alliance dating back to Suez, at least?), as Vronsky rightly suggests it remains suspicious, even among those in the outer layers of the establishment who are not normally given to such speculation. But I suspect that whoever actually did the deed (if indeed a deed was done), if it was ordered, it would have been ordered, or agreed to, by elements within the UK hard state. It could not have been done without that active or tacit approval.

    We probably will never know for certain, not even 100 years on.

    *’Chamcha’ – ‘spoon’ in Urdu – the term means, arse-licker, toady, the imagery I think being that of a smooth, curved back, forever bending over in submission, waiting for the lash. Like many such ‘spoons’, Blair is a very rich and vicious chamcha. The memorable question, put to Blair by a journalist after the death of Dr David Kelly, “Mr Blair, do you have blood on your hands” now seems rather like Cleopatra asking an asp, “Mr Asp, do you have venom in your mouth?”

  157. Sorry to butt in everyone.

    Edward Snowden has just landed in Moscow, according to the South China Morning News:

    “Whistle-blower Edward Snowden has left Hong Kong and is due to arrive in Moscow by this evening, the South China Morning Post can confirm.

    The former National Security Agency (NSA) contractor, who was last known to be hiding in Hong Kong, took off from city’s airport at 10.55am on Sunday morning was en route to Moscow’s Shermetyevo International Airport. He scheduled to arrive at 5.15pm.

    The Post was able to confirm that Snowden had been on an Aeroflot SU213 flight and headed to Moscow. Moscow will not be his final destination. Possible final destinations are either Iceland and Ecuador, according to previous media reports.

    The Russian embassy in Beijing would neither confirm nor deny Snowden is on a flight to Moscow. The Russian consulate in Hong Kong declined to comment.

    Snowden, who fled to Hong Kong on May 20, had expressed interest in seeking asylum in Iceland.”

    http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1267261/snowden-leaves-hong-kong-commercial-flight-moscow?login=1

    Not sure where I’d guess for final destination. Birgitta Jonsdottir’s been tweeting that he shouldn’t come to Iceland as “political support for him is not guaranteed”. And I guess if it was there, he’d have come by the private plane that was chartered, unless that was somehow blocked because it was already known about. Ecuador, then? Or why not Russia? Putin has already publicly offered him asylum – and that’s some BIG muscle he’d have behind him…

    And, yazzah!, it’s 9.16am GMT right now so he’s landing any minute now. Hrrraaaayyyyyyyyy!!!

  158. Flaming June

    23 Jun, 2013 - 9:27 am

    It’s official. The state broadcaster confirms it.

    23 June 2013 Last updated at 09:13

    Edward Snowden leaves Hong Kong on Moscow flight Breaking news

    US intelligence fugitive Edward Snowden has flown out of Hong Kong, the Chinese territory’s government has confirmed.

    The South China Morning Post quoted “credible sources” as saying he was due to arrive in Moscow on Sunday evening.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-23019414#

    Note he is an ‘intelligence fugitive’ and no longer a whistleblower.

  159. Thanks for your report on the usual political policing, Phil, Its good to see someone putting their money were their mouth is on here.

    Thanks for the update on the big DNA steal. I shall send a letter to my GP telling him that they have no authorisation to divulge my private DNA data to any third party outside the NHS.

    The reciprocal agreement between EU countries to treat each others residents, does not contain any provisions for such horse trading, afaik, and any future disclosure of information other than that of British subject should not be allowed.

  160. It is an ancient Bloggtroll,
    Pistoffeth two of three………

    Noooo!! Not even Kibo is that cruel.

    You could always have blamed Macky.
    .
    So, back to the topic.

    “States that provide arms have responsibilities in terms of the eventual use of those arms to commit … war crimes or crimes against humanity,”
    Paulo Pinheiro, chairman of the UN commission’s inquiry into rights violations in Syria.

    Good to see stirrings of life in the UN.

    From: http://rt.com/news/syria-chemical-weapons-un-105/

    .
    @ phil 9 25pm

    Thanks .

    Is your experience part of the slippery slope?

    http://mwcnews.net/focus/editorial/6315-israeli-settlers-terror.html

  161. I say good luck to Ed Snowden – he is a patriot, not a traitor. The traitors are those who set up systems which breach the Bill of Rights, break US and UK laws, and break international laws. The latest reports say that he is flying out of Moscow onward to another destination.

    We need the people to wake up. If NSA and GCHQ have access to all network traffic, this includes banking transactions for example. This is a breach of security which is unauthorised and is unlawful. It is all very well Messrs. Obama and Hague patting us on the head and saying that NSA and GCHQ are run by nice guys who care about our security, but access to banking and business networks is an open door for organised crime to infiltrate.

    If one bona fide 30yr old in-house idealist can copy out and publish the information Snowden has, then what scope is there for others far dodgier within this vast surveillance system to access information which we all believe to be secure, and then to do a lot of more significant damage.

    Did this happen on Tony Blair’s watch, or has it mushroomed since then?

  162. Hi Arbed, yes i agree, why not Russia? Iceland does sound a bit iffy. But its a pity that he couldn’t stay on in HongKong. If i understand it correctly, he may have had to spend a long time jailed there while he fought an extradition request. At least he’s likely to be free in Moscow while he considers other options. Choosing Ecuador could have the risk of complicating Assange’s own ongoing negotiations, i suspect. But i share your ‘Hooray”.

    Its difficult to read the Chinese mind — if you should come across an article clarifying that, along with the hard legal position in HongKong, please do share it. Please do stay in touch. Thanks.

  163. Traditional Chinese Simplified Chinese Email this article news.gov.hk
    HKSAR Government issues statement on Edward Snowden
    ***************************************************

    The HKSAR Government today (June 23) issued the following statement on Mr Edward Snowden:

    Mr Edward Snowden left Hong Kong today (June 23) on his own accord for a third country through a lawful and normal channel.

    The US Government earlier on made a request to the HKSAR Government for the issue of a provisional warrant of arrest against Mr Snowden. Since the documents provided by the US Government did not fully comply with the legal requirements under Hong Kong law, the HKSAR Government has requested the US Government to provide additional information so that the Department of Justice could consider whether the US Government’s request can meet the relevant legal conditions. As the HKSAR Government has yet to have sufficient information to process the request for provisional warrant of arrest, there is no legal basis to restrict Mr Snowden from leaving Hong Kong.

    The HKSAR Government has already informed the US Government of Mr Snowden’s departure.

    Meanwhile, the HKSAR Government has formally written to the US Government requesting clarification on earlier reports about the hacking of computer systems in Hong Kong by US government agencies. The HKSAR Government will continue to follow up on the matter so as to protect the legal rights of the people of Hong Kong.

    Ends/Sunday, June 23, 2013
    Issued at HKT 16:05

    NNNN

  164. Sorry to have doubled up there Arbed. It was hilarious that the state broadcaster was issuing that breaking news at the same time as their reporter in HK (Southworth) was speculating at length on where Edward Snowden would be heading.

    Keep up ZBC.

    ~~

    Their reporter Ms Knell reports on the win of the young singer from the refugee camp in Gaza. This made a change from her usual work of issuing propaganda for Israel. She cannot resist a little go in the aidebox though.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23017923

    ‘Gaza has not seen celebrations or such outpouring of emotion since the end of last year’s conflict with Israel….’

    Come off it Ms Knell. It is not a ‘conflict’. It was a fully militarized war by Israel against a captive people with a few rockets. The episode she refers to was named by the Israeli government as Pillar of Cloud, another OT trope. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillar_of_Cloud

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23017923

  165. “Krrup
    23 Jun, 2013 – 12:39 am
    No, 2/3 shouldn’t be hard: c.f. the G-77+China, http://www.g77.org/doc/#aim
    now 4/5 of the world’s population and 2/3 of the UN membership vote:”

    Krrup that’s good to know. Yes the G-77 was very active during the Cold War period. Their relevance remains as we see Wars strewn around with ever increasing numbers of casualties and increasing clashes of cultures. The UN is going to have to reinvent itself if it is going to have any credibility. Do you see that as realistic trend, or is it a pipe-dream? I fear top ‘leaders’ are so busy putting out internal fires that the thrust of attending with real strategic shifts is being neglected.

  166. Villager, 9.52am

    Chances that Edward Snowden’s final destination might be Ecuador are quite high, I think. Wikileaks’ press spokesman Kristinn Hrafnsson flew to Ecuador and he’s there right now:

    http://english.ruvr.ru/2013_06_23/WikiLeaks-Assange-Snowden-and-all-of-us-are-winning-Hrafnsson-9756/

    and he was the person who Snowden contacted for help in requesting asylum in Iceland:

    https://www.icelandreview.com/icelandreview/daily_news/Wikileaks_Prepared_to_Help_Snowden_Get_to_Iceland_0_400758.news.aspx

    Maybe Iceland said No. I don’t think it’s likely to complicate Assange’s asylum at all (in fact, I think it would help put more pressure on the UK to give up their ridiculous stance that an invalid EAW [because they’re not supposed to be used for mere questioning] trumps international refugee law). Correa reiterated support for Assange only yesterday – says he’s welcome to stay in the embassy as long as needed and his asylum causes “no problems for Ecuador”:

    http://multimedia.telesurtv.net/media/telesur.video.web/telesur-web/#!es/video/rafael-correa-ratifica-apoyo-a-julian-assange

  167. “This thread has a title, “Work for the UN.” Yes, you are distracting me from engaging with the subject of the thread.”

    Well Krrup and i haven’t allowed ourselves to be distracted. We’ve been engaged in a very interesting conversation and i have learnt a lot from him. Please feel free to engage with him. It really is a very crucial subject relevant to all us global villagers in these critical times.

    Get back to you later on other ‘stuff’, but meantime if you can please help dig out my alleged earlier insults to you, I will be grateful.

  168. Thanks for that Arbed, and at an intellectual level you are right about Ecuador. I still worry that at a pragmatic level the powers that be will be vindictive towards Assange because of his role in helping Snowden and will be cheesed off with Correa.

    Is there a credible current analysis of what Assanges options really are? Being granted a diplomatic passport by Ecuador? The European Courts? There must be some game-plans.

  169. Hi Villager,

    Must be Ecuador:

    WikiLeaks @wikileaks 12m

    FLASH Snowden está ahora en espacio aéreo ruso y lo acompañan asesores legales de Wikileaks.
    Expand
    Reply Retweet Favourite More
    WikiLeaks @wikileaks 15m

    FLASH: Mr. Snowden is currently over Russian airspace accompanied by WikiLeaks legal advisors.
    Expand
    WikiLeaks @wikileaks 40m

    FLASH:Wikileaks ayuda al asilo politico de Snowden, facilitando documentos y salida segura de HK hacia un pais democratico. Mas info pronto
    Expand
    WikiLeaks @wikileaks 46m

    FLASH: WikiLeaks has assisted Mr. Snowden’s political asylum in a democratic country, travel papers ans safe exit from Hong Kong. More soon.

    I’m guessing the tweets in Spanish are a big clue… haha!

    Well done, Ecuador! Well done. You have the world’s thanks for this one.
    (And no small thanks due to Assange too – He’s been campaigning for Snowden like a demon. Reporters at the conference call he held with Dan Ellsberg and Thomas Drake last Wednesday said he seemed dog-tired and virtually incoherent at times, then he cancelled his speech yesterday so I guessed no sleep for days straight while he’s been busy trying to negotiate getting Snowden the hell out of Hong Kong to somewhere safe.)

  170. Tony, thanks for your post with the HK statement — putting it to us straight from the horse’s mouth as it were. Combined with your and Arbed’s comments, it is a refreshing change from the ticker-tape style ‘breaking news’ that tends to show up with predictable frequency, with no depth or value-add, just a need to be there first.

  171. Press release from Interfax Moscow

    06/23 13:36 SNOWDEN’S ULTIMATE DESTINATION IS VENEZUELA WHERE HE WILL FLY TO FROM MOSCOW WITH STOPOVER IN HAVANA – SOURCE

  172. It is an ancient Bloggtroll,
    Pistoffeth two of three………

    Noooo!! Not even Kibo is that cruel.

    You could always have blamed Macky.
    .
    So, back to the topic.

    “States that provide arms have responsibilities in terms of the eventual use of those arms to commit … war crimes or crimes against humanity,”
    Paulo Pinheiro, chairman of the UN commission’s inquiry into rights violations in Syria.

    Good to see stirings of life in the UN.

    From: http://rt.com/news/syria-chemical-weapons-un-105/

    .
    @ phil 9 25pm

    Thanks .

    Is your experience part of the slippery slope?

    http://mwcnews.net/focus/editorial/6315-israeli-settlers-terror.html

    …………………………………………..

    @ Village.r 10 26am

    You might get away with your act with the occasional visitor to these threads. But I think most regular readers will be able to write your handbook by now.

    It’s a good ploy.
    Write several pieces broadly supportive of various truth and justice strands.
    Groom occasional bright visitors who haven’t experienced yet how your team works.
    Then sow discord and confusion by attacking individual regular contributers.
    And it works. But only for a while.

    Now, I think you owe me an answer in return for the two I gave you on this thread at 1 36am.

    I’m not holding my breath but I’ll have a look this evening.

  173. That narrative, “we’re the good guys”, is being dismantled by Western whistleblowers fleeing their now overtly criminal regimes for sanctuary elsewhere.

    These are seminal moments, but I suspect the majority won’t notice until the avalanche finally engulfs them.

    Didn’t need to be this way, were western media and institutions not so criminally corrupt.

    To be fair though, it always ends like this.

    On a more positive note, the criminals who have brought us to this sorry state have nowhere else to flee.

  174. Cool, Kibo, cool.

    It was an attempted coup, and poorly executed.

  175. Having returned from a short period of self imposed exile (yes Dreolin a break is good and sorry for shouting at you Jon) I was a bit taken aback by the ongoing trolling wars here. I want to congratulate little sofia and kibo. I cannot think of a better response to the likes of villager and habakuk (may their sould rot in the dark). Once tuned in these threads can be seen as a unique, somewhat surreal, modern, artistic response to the propaganda wars. Well done.

    And thanks to the trolls for unwittingly helping us break new ground. No, actually I hope karma hunts you down.

  176. “Kibo Noh
    23 Jun, 2013 – 11:21 am

    ” Now, I think you owe me an answer in return for the two I gave you on this thread at 1 36am.”

    And the comment left at 1.36am was by one Sofia. Here is verbatim:

    ” Sofia Zabolotna-Habbercake
    23 Jun, 2013 – 1:36 am
    Herbie 12 38am

    Spot on!

    “Sophisticated propaganda is built upon a false underlying narrative, myth, or story.”

    Even a fake 13.5yr old can get that. Thanks
    ……………………………………

    @Villager 11 41pm

    Let’s do a trade. I’ll answer two of your questions and you answer one of mine.

    You ask, “But do you have the foggiest understanding of the limitations of thought, of knowledge and the ending of time?”

    Well no. Not really. Nowhere near in fact. But I try hard enough to understand the world I find myself in and the people I encounter.

    You say “what i’m supposed to be distracting you from i haven’t figured.”

    This thread has a title, “Work for the UN.” Yes, you are distracting me from engaging with the subject of the thread.

    So, you have my two answers. Now let me ask you my question.
    Wh
    When you answered my earlier question, “Isn’t it the false narratives and constant propaganda that needs to be challenged and dismantled, rather than the individuals who peddle them?” with a patronising “You poor soul, you really are so lost”, just what did you mean​?

    I have fallen for this kind of distraction with you before, just as I have with Dad.

    I’ve also had this experience before of asking you a reasonable question and getting patronising insults instead of answers.

    I would love just this once to receive a genuine and clear reply.

    I know you don’t think much of me and you are welcome to remind me again, but please reply to my question.
    ………………………………………….

    Macky 12 39am

    I see you too are a student of the great William McGonnigle. But will you take care with that poetry! You might wake Kibo’s muse and you never know, he may launch into a nightmare version of “The Ancient Mariner” and clog the whole blog for weeks. Gods help us.

    Goodnight all.”
    —-
    So there we have it. QED
    The double-act slipped up unwittingly — couldn’t keep up with her schizophrenic self.
    I have been pointing out this sock-puppeting for a few days now but no action has been taken.
    Over to Jon now.

  177. Jon, just thought i’d flag my post above.

  178. Tony Press release from Interfax Moscow

    06/23 13:36 SNOWDEN’S ULTIMATE DESTINATION IS VENEZUELA WHERE HE WILL FLY TO FROM MOSCOW WITH STOPOVER IN HAVANA – SOURCE

    Three cheers for Edward and Julian. Out of the clutches of the Obomber thugs.

    Venceremos!

    I heard it on the radio. I bet it left a bitter taste in the state broadcaster’s mouth having to say it.

    Also heard a lot about Gideon’s further tranche of AUSTERITY. What an evil bunch they are. Out with the lot of them.

  179. What IS Villager on about?

  180. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    23 Jun, 2013 - 12:38 pm

    Since the previous limerick I posted (by the great Robert Conquest) obviously delighted its addressee “Macky”, I thought I’d post another one (again, by Robert Conquest) in the hope that at least one of our other readers will appreciate it:

    “The first man to fuck little Sophie
    Has just won the Kraft-Ebing Trophy,
    Plus ten thousand quid,
    Which, for what the chap did,
    Will be widely denounced as a low fee.”

  181. Thanks Arbed for your excellent posts, as it looks like, the misinformation spread by the NSA and Governments has failed to derail Snowden and or his supporters worldwide, great news.

    Our combined thanks should also go to Julian and Wikileaks for working non stop to help Edward leave HK and for negotiating an asylum for him in Ecuador.

    Viva Ecuador!

    When we buy computers we are not told that this implement, just as our mobiles, keep constant tabs on us, day and night.

    More whistle blowers coming forward will have a marked correlation with the increase in encryption, so it is important to enable people, inform them of the option to keep important dates offline and keep our agencies busy with very little.

    Has any of you heard much of the World bank whistle blower Karen Hudes. She is being harassed by the US courts and is of the opinion that the fed and Goldmann Sachs as well as other large banks are one large banking conglomerate hell bent on control of the markets.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oSiJQituAo

    Phil, karma karma, self harmer.

    I’m in London on the 3rd. but not for long, but you are welcome to come up here for a pub assault course and dog walking weekend here, who knows, we might even run into Komodo if he’s around and fancies a jar of ale.

  182. The troll-in-chief is getting mucky again. Must have been rattled.

    ~~

    ‘Suspicious item’ found outside a mosque in Walsall.

    Who would stoop that low? Silly question.

  183. Flaming June
    23 Jun, 2013 – 12:35 pm
    What IS Villager on about?
    ——-
    Very simple Mary. Sofia and Kibo are one and the same person. Hence they have been sock-puppeting as they say.

    You use different names but one at a time and you quite rightly have never denied that you are Mary. I think you should come back in that name now — no need to wait till July.

    Stay well and have a good day, hopefully with a laugh or two added.

    One day i might share how i uncovered the Sofia-Kibo gloves.

  184. Ha ha ha Habbakuk

    Brilliant one! Touche! .

  185. Why do people bother posting with persistent personas anyway? Don’t see any reason why a recognizable nym should outlive a particular topic. If everybody posted as a disembodied voice, there would be less spatting and pestering and more focus on the content. Genuine trolls would knock themselves out trying to figure out who’s who, and GCHQ databases would burgeon with relational crap that takes human intervention to sort out.

    Having said that, now I’m going to kill this nym. Goodbye, cruel world.

  186. Fecking hell is there a day that goes by without these ziofuckwits running to “sir”/Jon and telling on the others? The tag team of the cabalistic/Talmudic tossers are writing limericks promoting paedophilia, now.

    ===========

    Snowden has upset Trowbridge big time! The puny Snowden is not staying put in one place to spy, unless he has picked up the package he was supposed to pick up and is on his way to hand it over to a covert CIA agent somewhere in the world!!???

    However seriously must hand it to this guy, he has been playing the game just right, and seems to be staying one step ahead of the CIA all the way. The fact that en mass spying has not resulted in picking up Snowden calls for a new program of spying on the spies, which of course will mean to set up an outfit to spy on the spies, who are spying on people, and so forth. The plot is getting to be like the old Japanese gangster movies more and more by the minute.

  187. Nevermind, 12.41pm

    Thanks. All the news reports are saying the final destination is Venezuela but my money’s still on it being Ecuador – that was the first suggestion Assange made, even before Snowden’s identity was known. I’m also going on recent comments by Assange as to why he chose Ecuador himself in the first place. He said it was because of a “strong president in the region”. I don’t think you can extend that to Maduro – his election win was a much closer call than expected, contrasted with Correa’s runaway success during Ecuador’s elections in February. He’s firmly installed for another four years – that’s the kind of stability Snowden will be looking for.

    PS. My earlier posts were wrong about the landing times (I was going by the flight times given in the South China Morning Post minus 8 hours to get GMT, but seems that’s not right somehow) – apparently Snowden’s still in the air, travelling with Wikileaks staffer Sarah Harrison and due to be met by diplomats from the “third country” in Moscow airport transit section, and accompanied by them from there.

  188. Will be interesting to see if Washington goes all out to get Edward Snowden – as Reagan did with the PLF killers of Leon Klinghofer – or just let him disappear in Iceland or in some country in South America.

    Obama could arrange for American fighters, particularly carrier-based ones, to intercept a flight to any of those places, and force it to land in the UK, Florida, or Puerto Rico.

    Suspect Washington has warned Moscow of helping the leaker avoid justice, and remains to be seen if Putin still allows Aeroflot or other carriers take him out of Russia.

    Doubt that Washington will go to the brink over it, but Snowden has caused the USA much more damage than Abu Abas’s killers.

  189. Here’s a bit of confirmation that indicates the Wikileaks Grand Jury is set on “conspiracy to commit espionage” charges against Julian Assange(probably already in a sealed indictment):

    This article is about the recently unsealed subpoenas for the Gmail accounts of ex-Wikileaks volunteers Smari McCarthy and Herbert Snorrson:

    http://mashable.com/2013/06/22/google-wikileaks/

    Key quote from the article: “The information seized is a vast trove of metadata going as far back as Nov. 1, 2009.” – That date is the one that US prosecutors in Bradley Manning’s trial have insisted on for the Garani video being sent to Wikileaks (despite clear evidence to the contrary that Bradley sent it in April 2010), because otherwise they can’t say Wikileaks’ tweet of 8 January 2010 about their receipt of an Afghani airstrike amounts to evidence of a conspiracy.

  190. Washington will only get crazed about Snowden if he has some more dangerous beans to spill, which I doubt. They would not escort nor shoot his plane down, nor compromise themselves with China, Russia – nor Cuba, Ecuador nor Venezuela for that matter, because it isn’t worth it. They’ll figure they’ll get him sooner or later and have done enough to put other wannabe whistle-blowers off for the moment. In the meantime as with Assange he is imprisoned albeit not in Guantanamo nor anywhere in the US, but he is effectively behind bars and under control.

    Damage limitation will be the name of the game. Washington is anxious to crush Assad then Iran. That will be higher priority than shutting up a whistleblower who has already done most of the damage he could ever do. Poking China or Russia with sharp sticks over Snowden will slow down Washington’s bloodlust for the crushing of Assad and Iran. They will think Russia and China will let them get on with Assad’s demise in the end.

  191. Flaming June

    23 Jun, 2013 - 2:37 pm

    Villager What I care to call myself is none of your business. Nor is it any business of ‘sweet Dreoilin’ who, if I remember correctly, leapt in following the chief troll to tell everybody who April Showers was when I changed my name and has reminded since. At the time I was attempting to escape from the troll’s unpleasant attentions. It is totally against my nature to be deceptive and I hated using a name other than my real name.

    She even had to jump in on this thread. “Mummy Mummy it wasn’t him. Look. It was ‘Flaming June’.” I don’t know where the perceived animus arises as I can remember being supportive of her with family worries in the old days, when the EU bankers were shafting her country and when the Irish banks and economy crashed, etc. I actually share a common heritage. My father came from Limerick.

    Anyway all of this is totally trivial and a diversion has successfully been created again by trolls. There are very important things going on in the real world.

  192. There can be little doubt that Snowden has more damaging information about what happened to leakers like GCHQ/MI6 agent Gareth Williams and his GCHQ associate Gudrun Loftus.

    Williams was involved in setting up CIA sleeper agents aka the Manhattan 11 as Russian spies, and was in the process of taking that information to Moscow when he was poisoned, it seems, by NSA hitmen – what Executive Director William KIng Harvey had established during his last days with CIA.

    For more on them, read Bamford about its establishment in Beltsville, MD.

    Williams went to Washington after the fiasco was settled by Putin, and he could well have been looking for fellow hacker Snowden who helped out in breaking into their lap tops to make himself more attractive to Moscow, and was obviously upset by his fate. He only became a loose cannon when NSA tried to get rid of him by joining him to the honey-trap that Ben Bishop had fallen for.

    Suspect that what Snowden knows about the fate of serious NSA leakers is why Putin is so willing to help out, and he will disclose them if Washington goes bonkers over Snowden’s escape,

    Consequently, Obama will not only let him escape, and be more supportive of Russia’s approach to the Syrian conflict for fear that Moscow will reveal more of what Snowden has stolen from NSA.

  193. Krrrrpppp p 23 Jun, 2013 – 1:22 pm
    “Why do people bother posting with persistent personas anyway…and GCHQ databases would burgeon with relational crap that takes human intervention to sort out.”

    I doubt GCHQ relies on human intervention to track people who change their online name. They are probably a little more sophisticated than that.

    Like others here I prefer to use my real name. Fear is a weapon. Not being afraid is the only response. People tend to rationalise their fear with concerns about tax or weed or some such thing. But that’s crap. Noone is innocent. Fight the fear. Grab your rollys there’s a meeting down the docks!

  194. @Nevermind – sounds great. Please get my email off our mutual friend and drop me a line.

  195. Good article exploring the Intelligence protection racket.

    “The intelligence-security industry isn’t about protecting the United States or you, except for extraordinarily rare, virtually accidental occurrences. It’s about wealth and power. Yet every politician and every government functionary speaks reverently of the sacred mission and crucial importance of “intelligence” in the manner of a syphilitic preacher who clutches a tatty, moth-eaten doll of the Madonna, which he digitally manipulates by sticking his fingers in its orifices. Most people would find his behavior shockingly obscene, if they noticed it. But they don’t notice it, so mesmerized are they by the preacher with his phonily awestruck words about the holy of holies and the ungraspably noble purpose of his mission. Even as the suppurating sores on the preacher’s face ooze blood and pus, his audience can only gasp, “We must pay attention to what he says! He wants only the best for us! He’s trying to save us!””

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article35389.htm

  196. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    23 Jun, 2013 - 3:52 pm

    “Fear is a weapon. Not being afraid is the only response”

    ________

    The above, from Phil, is one of the sanest comments on this thread.

  197. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    23 Jun, 2013 - 3:53 pm

    HK made a rather extraordinary statement in connection with the exit. Citing Manning, the US is now anti-dissident on the World stage. It’s quite a slap in the face.

    Russia’s involvement shouldn’t include any self-righteous sniggering until Pussy Riot gets out of jail free.

  198. What a great woman.A must watch.Copy left right and centre.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_-Ie6JQquM

  199. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    23 Jun, 2013 - 3:57 pm

    “There are very important things going on in the real world.”

    And certainly there is sufficient animosity. Keeping close alliances with supportive and non-enabling discussions without acrimony will get more important than ever. No need to fight with fellow dissidents.

  200. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    23 Jun, 2013 - 4:04 pm

    From Flaming June :

    “…following the chief troll to tell everybody who April Showers was when I changed my name and has reminded since.”
    ____________

    On the assumption that “the chief troll” is a reference to me, I do plead guilty to having identified “April Showers” as Mary redux (is that the right Latin expression, Doug Scorgie?).

    But, you see, it wasn’t difficult for someone as acute as I, or even for those less so: the name changed, but the person was easy to identify because the style (I shall remain polite!), the subjects, the general philosphy and even the frequency of the comments were unchanged from those of the Mary who left vowing never to return.

    If this sounds as if I agree with KrrrpppP, who said earlier on that

    “Why do people bother posting with persistent personas anyway? Don’t see any reason why a recognizable nym should outlive a particular topic.”

    then you would be wrong. As someone else wrote, quite recently, keeping the same name does provide other readers with some history and context and thus makes it easier for them to evaluate comments from the same person but on different subjects.

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