All Law is Gone: Naked Power Remains

by craig on July 3, 2013 8:39 am in Uncategorized

The forcing down of the Bolivian President’s jet was a clear breach of the Vienna Convention by Spain and Portugal, which closed their airspace to this Head of State while on a diplomatic mission.  It has never been thought necessary to write down in a Treaty that Heads of State enjoy diplomatic immunity while engaged in diplomacy, as their representatives only enjoy diplomatic immunity as cyphers for their Head of State.  But it is a hitherto unchallenged precept of customary international law, indeed arguably the oldest provision of international law.

To the US and its allies, international law is no longer of any consequence.  I can see no evidence that anyone in an official position has even noted the illegality of repeated Israeli air and missile strikes against Syria.  Snowden, Manning and Assange all exposed illegality on a massive scale, and no action whatsoever has been taken against any of the criminals they exposed.  Instead they are being hounded out of all meaningful life and ability to function in society.

I have repeatedly posted, and have been saying in public speeches for ten years, that under the UK/US intelligence sharing agreements the NSA spies on UK citizens and GCHQ spies on US citizens and they swap the information.  As they use a shared technological infrastructure, the division is simply a fiction to get round the law in each country restricting those agencies from spying on their own citizens.

I have also frequently remarked how extraordinary it is that the media keep this “secret”, which they have all known for years.

The Guardian published the truth on 29 June:

At least six European Union countries in addition to Britain have been colluding with the US over the mass harvesting of personal communications data, according to a former contractor to America’s National Security Agency, who said the public should not be “kept in the dark”. This article has been taken down pending an investigation.
Wayne Madsen, a former US navy lieutenant who first worked for the NSA in 1985 and over the next 12 years held several sensitive positions within the agency, names Denmark, the Netherlands, France, Germany, Spain and Italy as having secret deals with the US.
Madsen said the countries had “formal second and third party status” under signal intelligence (sigint) agreements that compels them to hand over data, including mobile phone and internet information to the NSA if requested.
Under international intelligence agreements, confirmed by declassified documents, nations are categorised by the US according to their trust level. The US is first party while the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand enjoy second party relationships. Germany and France have third party relationships.

The strange script which appears there happens when I try to copy and paste from this site which preserved the article before the Guardian censored all the material about the UK/US intelligence sharing agreement from it.

As you can see from the newssniffer site linked above, for many hours there was just a notice stating that the article was “taken down pending investigation”, and then it was replaced on the same URL by the Guardian with a different story which does not mention the whistleblower Wayne Madsen or the intelligence sharing agreements!!

I can give, and I would give on oath, an eye witness guarantee that from my direct personal experience of twenty years as a British diplomat the deleted information from Wayne Madsen was true.

 

 

 

 

 

Tweet this post

329 Comments

  1. The French Foreign Ministry has apologised. This is an official translation, this time.

    http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/country-files/bolivia/events-2586/article/bolivia

    ***********************
    The minister of foreign affairs telephoned his Bolivian counterpart to extend to him France’s apologies following the setback experienced by President Morales as a result of the delay in granting the president’s plane permission to fly over French territory. He provided him with the necessary clarifications regarding this incident.

    He underscored that the authorization to fly over French territory was granted as soon as the French authorities had been informed that the aircraft in question was that of President Morales. He also indicated to him that there had, of course, never been any intention of refusing President Morales’s plane access to our airspace; President Morales is always welcome in our country.

    Our relations with Bolivia are marked by trust and friendship. President Morales’s visit to France in March, marked by a very friendly meeting with President Hollande, provided an opportunity to underscore our shared political determination to give new impetus to the partnership between our two countries. In that spirit, the two ministers expressed their determination to continue strengthening French-Bolivian relations.
    ***********************

    It has been reported that Bolivian officials underlined that it was a French-manufactured plane, namely a Dassault Falcon 900 EX.

  2. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Jul, 2013 - 5:09 pm

    “In this regard, it is clarified and reiterated emphatically that Mr. Snowden never met the President in Russia and less up to the aircraft, not meeting the present, in Bolivia and, if it decides to enter or transit through the country, exercising the principles of sovereignty, independence and equality of states.”

    Google trans.

    “Where is Snowden’. That’s the hundred-dollar question. Clearly this response is part of their complaint to UN. I think it was Arbed (?) who suggested there are plenty of hiding spaces in passenger aircraft. Are you suggesting he was on the plane, and this is the reason for the carefully phrased 2nd graf? It does sound parsed somewhat, I agree.

  3. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Jul, 2013 - 5:11 pm

    The French said there was ‘conflicting information’. I bet there was a lot of shuffling. The question is; who started the dance?

  4. Flaming June

    4 Jul, 2013 - 5:13 pm

    When in Rome…. Make that ‘Paris’.

    France ‘has vast data surveillance’ – Le Monde report
    Telecom network cables in France
    The DGSE data is said to be accessed by other French intelligence agencies

    Continue reading the main story
    US spy leaks
    Revelations of US spy scandal
    Where will Snowden end up?
    Is it OK to spy on your allies?
    Wikileaks back in spotlight

    France’s foreign intelligence service intercepts computer and telephone data on a vast scale, like the controversial US Prism programme, according to the French daily Le Monde.

    The data is stored on a supercomputer at the headquarters of the DGSE intelligence service, the paper says.

    The operation is “outside the law, and beyond any proper supervision”, Le Monde says.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23178284

    Quel surprise!

  5. Ben Franklin, 5.09pm

    I think it was Arbed (?) who suggested there are plenty of hiding spaces in passenger aircraft.

    Nope, not me. The people who are currently protecting Snowden from the awesome power of the US gangsters have experience in such matters and are, in any case, far cleverer than that. This is a legal and political game, not a Boy’s Own adventure game – they are not going to pull any stunts that could be challenged legally.

    The French said there was ‘conflicting information’… The question is; who started the dance?

    Ahh, that’s more like it! :)

  6. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Jul, 2013 - 5:50 pm

    Arbed; Do you think NEVER having confirmation of his whereabouts is in the plan?

  7. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Jul, 2013 - 5:53 pm

    I think your last comment answered my last question. Legal it is. I know Putin has been briefed so as not to lose his UN refugee/HR status.

  8. Arbed, that thought (bug as source of “rumour”) also crossed my mind. After discovering the bug, the Ecuadorean embassy probably acted out a scripted conversation to see where the false information flowed.

    Those responsible for planting the bug and listening in on private embassy conversations are hardly in a position to express outrage for having been sent on a wild goose chase.

    The US and UK are being set up to embarrass themselves and estrange existing and potential diplomatic partners. Hah!

  9. Uppsy! A few puppies have rolled over to have their bellies rubbed (France and Italy to the dog-box immediately for soiling yourselves), but – oops! – Grumpy Cat has just weighed in, claws flashing…

    Russia criticises European states for ‘unfriendly’ diversion of Bolivian president Morales’ plane:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/10160170/Russia-criticises-European-states-for-unfriendly-diversion-of-Bolivian-president-Morales-plane.html

    Oo-er!

  10. Thanks for letting us know Arbed, to the air plane, the Falcon 900ex long range version uses every available space for tanks, so I doubt Edward would find much space to hide in, although he is fairly thin.

    I’m surprised that Snowden has turned into a red hot poker and nobody wants to give him asylum, wonder what information he really has. I think that whatever it is, the silence over it has become deafening, keeping further info secret does not seem to work for him.

    As for Julian in his enforced excile, he will have to use pen and paper when communicating with people, if the place was bugged, and if there is one likehoods is that there are others.

    It needs a daily sweep. Can you get ‘sleepers’? i.e. bugs that give of no signal until activated and/or shut down at will?

    There might also be a camera, a pinprick somewhere in the room, gently drilled and prepared, not unlike those cameras set by wild life photographers, mere millimetres across, embossed and fancy ceilings and lamps are preferred for such escapades, as it enables to see most of the room.

    keep looking, plenty and often.

  11. Ben: “Arbed; Do you think NEVER having confirmation of his whereabouts is in the plan?”

    Ben/Arbed, i think that makes sense doesn’t it? He can still continue to share his reports. He can live incognito if thats what he wants, he’s safer that way, the host country is not outwardly the target of US wrath, and after Vienna, Russia has an excuse to help covertly.

    I think Cuba and Venezuela (most oil-rich country) are still possibilities. It’ll be good if UNASUR somehow gives its consensus of backing so that its seen to be a joint decision should the plan be for Snowden to reappear.

    Meanwhile i believe Bolivia is kicking-out the ambassadors of France, Spain and Portugal, quite rightly. What an Obummer of a blunder — what credibility has the President of the World left within the Global Village?
    —-
    Arbed please keep us posted…

  12. The Irish – sartorially challenged though they may often be (I’m allowed to say that ;)) – seem to be slightly quicker on the uptake than their more cosmopolitan, elegant cousins:

    WikiLeaks @wikileaks 41m

    Irish senator David Norris calls on Irish senate to ask government to “act proactively” to protect #Snowden http://www.kildarestreet.com/sendebates/?id=2013-07-02a.8#g48
    Expand
    Reply Retweet Favourite More
    WikiLeaks @wikileaks 42m

    Irish parliamentarian Clare Daly asks government to support #Snowden application, and give him refuge http://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2013-07-02a.86#g125
    Expand
    WikiLeaks @wikileaks 47m

    Irish deputy PM Eamon Gilmore: US spying on EU building “the equivalent of the European Union bugging Capitol Hill” http://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2013-07-02a.334#g391
    Expand
    WikiLeaks @wikileaks 48m

    Irish parliamentarian Richard Boyd Barrett urges Irish government to issue a statement of support for #Snowden http://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2013-07-02a.334#g382
    Expand
    WikiLeaks @wikileaks 48m

    Irish parliamentarian Mick Wallace speaks in support of #Snowden, #Assange, #Manning, #Swartz and #Hammond http://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2013-07-02a.334#g371

    A few voices in Germany:

    WikiLeaks @wikileaks 39m

    German representative Peter Gauweiler urges invitation to Snowden to testify in Germany, granting safe passage [de] http://www.suddeutsche.de/gauweiler-will-snowden-nach-deutschland-holen-der-mann-ist-ein-zentrales-bewismittel-1.1711736

    Hurrah! Peeps on Twitter can join in:

    WikiLeaks @wikileaks 37m

    Please search the parliamentary/congressional records of your nation for #Snowden comments. Use hashtag #SnowdenParl

  13. @Ben – I used Google’s poor-quality translation prog and then tidied up the result a bit, so we are going backwards. I wondered whether someone might be able to provide a better translation who actually knows Spanish.

    The reason I’d like a better translation of the 2nd paragraph is to find out whether they are saying Snowden didn’t meet Morales either in Russia or on the aircraft, or that he didn’t meet Morales in Russia and he didn’t go up in the aircraft, or that he has not met Morales and was not on the plane.

    If he was in any place that could be interpreted as being under Bolivian jurisdiction, for any period of time, then he could have requested asylum during that time. There could well have been such a place at Sheremetevo.

    The fact that the Austrian president went to Vienna’s Schwechat airport and met with Morales, and the plane stayed there for several hours, suggests that interesting events occurred at the airport which were different from a search of the plane. They may have involved a discussion of issues of asylum – and I don’t mean hypothetical issues.

    There is some quality disinformation here, involving a number of organisations, and involving official silence as well as press releases and unattributable briefings. Those such as myself who have only read news reports rather than having any inside track remain completely in the dark as to whether any search took place.

    All we know is that a search did take place, both countries’ governments seem to have agreed to keep quiet about it.

    I am suggesting that they may also have something else to keep quiet about.

    Wikileaks and Edward Snowden himself are also keeping quiet about what has been going on. I suspect that may not be the wisest policy for Snowden.

    @Arbed – we may disagree on this point. Snowden’s ‘protectors’ may turn out to be not exclusively committed to that role. I continue to believe that he was stitched up into going to Moscow. Have you studied the Bobby Fischer case? From a Japanese jail cell, he publicised every damned last thing that happened, and he eventually defeated the US government and got citizenship of Iceland.

    I hope Snowden is alive and in good health, and on his way to being publicly acknowledged to have claimed and been granted asylum.

    @Ben – you ask who started the dance. For certain, given the disinformation put out in the western media and the location of Sheremetevo, we know that both US and Russian agencies are involved.

  14. Nevermind, 6.18pm

    I wouldn’t be concerned about Julian Assange’s ability to outfox surveillance by intelligence services – he has years of experience at that, and is, besides, one of the world’s top cryptographic experts.

  15. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Jul, 2013 - 6:41 pm

    Villager; Multiple Nation approvals and then reported sightings in each of those seems his best bet.

    Not having a fix on him as to exact location is the way he will have to live.

  16. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Jul, 2013 - 6:44 pm

    Nevermind; sorry I misled. I don’t speak Spanish, but I do know syntax is a problem with translation. My point was that it was a non-denial denial. ‘He didn’t meet him’ seems to be the legalese escape clause; as my only point.

  17. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Jul, 2013 - 6:47 pm

    Arbed @ 6:18; Putin, the likely source of the rumor is having lots of fun with the US.

  18. N, 6.31pm

    Snowden’s ‘protectors’ may turn out to be not exclusively committed to that role.

    If by that you mean Wikileaks, oh I think they are wholly committed to it. The organisation’s entire raison d’etre is to protect whistleblowers. Things may not always be what they seem – in order to get a good insight into what is going on, it is necessary to read pretty widely and exploit as many internet sources of information as you can.

    Here’s an example. Edward Snowden’s father wrote a corker of an open letter to his son, comparing him to Paul Revere no less – well, no, actually Snowden Senior’s letter was penned with the help of his lawyer, Bruce Fein – and the Washington Post duly reported that Fein said they’d received a message, allegedly from Edward but conveyed via Julian Assange, to “keep quiet”. “We’re working to establish a direct link to Snowden without having to go through an intermediary”, said Fein:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/snowdens-father-signals-frustration-with-wikileaks-issues-broad-defense-of-son/2013/07/02/5c1dc6aa-e352-11e2-aef3-339619eab080_story.html

    Got that? Now, here’s the rub. This is from the website of Sibel Edmonds, head of the US-based National Security Whistleblowers Alliance, herself a whistleblower and whose bone fides cannot be doubted. A post all about Bruce Fein, his background and his clients, from September 2011:

    http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/tag/neocon-bruce-fein/

  19. Think about it, Ben. Start off with a time when he’s stuck at Sheremetevo. Various parties are going to be trying to bribe, threaten, or trick him. If he had as much sense as Bobby Fischer (and he probably hasn’t), he’d sort himself out some way of communicating to the world, and fuck what any lawyer tells him about keeping his mouth shut. Where can he fly to from where he can get a flight to where he wants to go? If his final destination isn’t an ALBA country, with first preference for Bolivia but Ecuador, Venezuela and Cuba will also suffice, then he’s an idiot.

  20. Morales’s plane was at Schwechat for 14 hours! OK Austria is landlocked nowadays, but for fuck’s sake! Talks took place there, I’m tellin’ ya’! :-)

    Let’s hope Snowden has got the sense not to go anywhere near Schiphol (Amsterdam) or Frankfurt!

  21. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Jul, 2013 - 6:55 pm

    ” fuck what any lawyer tells him about keeping his mouth shut”

    It’s a legal strategy, N_. The refugee status and HR charters of the UN proscribe illegality.

    The South Korean Head of the UN has already said some untoward words wrt Snowden.

  22. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Jul, 2013 - 6:58 pm

    “If by that you mean Wikileaks, oh I think they are wholly committed to it. The organisation’s entire raison d’etre is to protect whistleblowers”

    They are totally invested, for sure. Their fates are all intertwined and I think that bodes well for being honorable toward Snowden. I think Assange has been very frustrated he couldn’t help Manning more than he has, but those were circumstances out of reach.

  23. I think N’s insistence that Snowden can’t get a safe flight route out of Sheremetevo airport – yes, that’s where he is, there’s no mystery – are premature. Belarus, Austria, German airspace doesn’t seem to be a problem yet.

    Oh, look – here’s more voices speaking out in Germany trying to find political solutions that might work:

    Kai von der Heyden @k_heyden 11m

    SPD head Sigmar Gabriel requests Federal Prosec.office to investigate &witness protection for #Snowden http://www.focus.de/politik/deutschland/gabriel-ueber-spionage-skandale-ermittlungen-gegen-geheimdienste-snowden-unter-zeugenschutz-stellen_aid_1033997.html … #SnowdenParl

    Worth joining in that hunt for Parliamentary/Congressional mentions of Snowden that Wikileaks twitter suggested, I’d say, if people want to help.

  24. @Arbed – N, 6.31pm

    “[me] Snowden’s ‘protectors’ may turn out to be not exclusively committed to that role.”

    If by that you mean Wikileaks, oh I think they are wholly committed to it. The organisation’s entire raison d’etre is to protect whistleblowers.

    That’s a funny chain of logic you’ve got there.

    Things may not always be what they seem – in order to get a good insight into what is going on, it is necessary to read pretty widely and exploit as many internet sources of information as you can.

    But not sufficient.

    Examine your notions. How can an organisation be committed to anything?

    The very idea of having a global central point for whistleblowers to use is bullshit. Whistleblowers would be much better off learning how to post to Usenet.

    Look how the Wikileaks hierarchs work with the NYT and the Guardian. For goodness sake! They’re both Zionist through and through, and the Guardian – isn’t that the paper which says it’s lawful for the Brits to break into embassies?

    I hate all this Woodward and Bernstein stuff.

    Here’s an example. Edward Snowden’s father wrote a corker of an open letter to his son, comparing him to Paul Revere no less – well, no, actually Snowden Senior’s letter was penned with the help of his lawyer, Bruce Fein – and the Washington Post duly reported that Fein said they’d received a message, allegedly from Edward but conveyed via Julian Assange, to “keep quiet”. “We’re working to establish a direct link to Snowden without having to go through an intermediary”, said Fein:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/snowdens-father-signals-frustration-with-wikileaks-issues-broad-defense-of-son/2013/07/02/5c1dc6aa-e352-11e2-aef3-339619eab080_story.html

    Got that?

    Yeah. A lawyer’s got close to his father, with whom Snowden’s own minders seem to be ‘protecting’ him from communicating. Last we heard, he wasn’t in captivity. The FSR listen to everything at Sheremetevo, electronic or otherwise. There’s absolutely no chance of him having a secure line of communication with his father. He should know that, and so should Assange. He might as well use a common-or-garden unencrypted mobile phone.

    Now, here’s the rub. This is from the website of Sibel Edmonds, head of the US-based National Security Whistleblowers Alliance, herself a whistleblower and whose bone fides cannot be doubted. A post all about Bruce Fein, his background and his clients, from September 2011:

    http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/tag/neocon-bruce-fein/

    Yikes! Fein worked as Research Director for the Republican Party on the Joint Congressional Committee on Covert Arms Sales to Iran, and has been a Fellow for Constitutional Studies at the Heritage Foundation and worked at the American Enterprise Institute. He has advised various countries on “constitutional reform”, including South Africa, Hungary and Russia.

    Really hard to imagine a background that shouts “CIA” any more loudly.

    Funny how it was the right wing that started this NSA story off, too. Ditto MPs’ expenses in the little ol’ UK.

  25. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Jul, 2013 - 7:15 pm

    Arbed

    Witness protection program in Germany? I see wheels within local political wheels grinding his life to dust. I don’t trust any of the governmental principals including Ecuador to keep Snowden’s life or liberty. They all have their own domestic agenda.

  26. Oh, lovely…

    WikiLeaks @wikileaks 6m

    Assange: Why is Congress, EU rolling over for NSA? Imagine JE Hoover, but with ‘dirt files’ the size of a Utah mountain. That’s the NSA.

    Meanwhile…

    LatviaFoWL @LatviaFoWL 12m

    Latvian Foreign Affairs Ministry summons U.S. diplomats over spy scandal – http://bnn-news.com/?p=98686 | #SnowdenParl #PRISM

    Latvia – wouldn’t that be a gateway to another possible flight path?

    And…

    Kristinn Hrafnsson @khrafnsson 19m

    Icelandic MP´s introduce bill to grant Snowden citizenship. http://www.visir.is/snowden-frumvarp-lagt-fram-a-althingi/article/2013130709573 … #Snowdenparl

    It’s all getting a bit Tectonic, isn’t it? Haha, what an almighty Game of Thrones we’re having. I haven’t had this much fun in ages.

  27. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Jul, 2013 - 7:16 pm

    Assange is the mediator wrt communication between Snowden and Dad, N_

  28. Let’s look on the bright side. Like the Stasi in East Gemany, the NSA are collating in one place embarrassing details on every one of the shower of shit that have been running the West into a cesspit.

    It’ll be handy for the prosecutions that must follow their demise.

  29. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Jul, 2013 - 7:27 pm

    ““He might be able to present a whistleblower defense by showing that the documents he revealed benefited the public’s interest more than the state,” Amnesty International’s Michael Bochenek said.
    According to the 1951 United Nations Convention on Refugees, refugee status can only be granted if an applicant can successfully argue that they face persecution due to one of the following reasons: race, religion, nationality, membership to a social group, or political opinion.
    However, countries may reject refugee status if there is “serious reason to suspect that [he has] committed a crime against peace, a war crime, a crime against humanity, or a serious non-political crime outside of [his] country of origin.””

    http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/04/19283845-nsa-leaker-edward-snowden-attempts-to-navigate-legal-labyrinth?lite

    So Snowden’s entire 8 year long project either had no plan, or a near fail-safe plan with multiple tangents based upon future exigent circumstances. I think the latter is more than speculation.

  30. @Arbed – Iceland, yeah! And not simply asylum, but citizenship.

    I told everyone to read up on the Bobby Fischer case!

    @Ben – if you mean “intermediary”, yes, I got that. Or maybe the middle intermediary, with others being Fein (closest to father) and Wikileaks’s ‘agents on the spot’ (closest to Snowden). If I were him, I’d speak to my family on an ordinary phone. Talk about false ‘security’. Ironic, given the circumstances!

  31. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Jul, 2013 - 7:33 pm

    Yes, ‘intermediary’.

  32. Flaming June

    4 Jul, 2013 - 7:38 pm

    John Pilger in the Guardian.

    Forcing down Evo Morales’s plane was an act of air piracy
    Denying the Bolivian president air space was a metaphor for the gangsterism that now rules the world

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/04/forcing-down-morales-plane-air-piracy?CMP=twt_gu

    Some appalling comments there.

  33. N, 7.29pm

    Yes, the bill in Iceland to grant citizenship helps – any displays of ‘official’ support will help. Extradition and asylum are, after all, 90 per cent political decisions, and 10 per cent legalities.

    My money’s still on UNASUR, though. Iceland pop. = 300,000. UNASUR = 12-nation bloc.

  34. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Jul, 2013 - 7:42 pm

    Here it is. (see #2) UNCHR protocols must be satisfied. They have to court the UN. This is the reason for the legalisms.

    http://eng.velferdarraduneyti.is/media/acrobat-enskar_sidur/UNCHR_COUNTRY_3._Iceland.pdf

  35. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Jul, 2013 - 7:45 pm

    N_ Don’t know what happened to the comment, but my 7:42 is the result of checking your Fischer reference.

    He was given status by Iceland while in Japan, so there goes the requirement that he must physically present on the Nation’s soil.

  36. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Jul, 2013 - 7:49 pm

    Then there’s that NATO thang….Arbed?

  37. Amnesty International are talking crap as usual. At least it gives the MI6 wives something to do, in the posh areas of certain English cathedral cities. If Snowden goes to trial, he’s fucked. Doesn’t matter what his defence would be. What he needs is asylum. The UN is obviously not going to grant refugee status, and countries aren’t limited by international law as to whom they can grant asylum to.

    Barrister Gemma Lindfield, according to Owen Boycott at the Guardian, implies that Russia have only defined airside transit at Sheremetevo to be extra-territorial because it suits their interests in the Snowden case.

    It’s very odd for a country to have a consulate at its own airport. Does someone know when the Russian consulate at Sheremetevo was first set up?

    Any guesses for what work Lindfield has done in the past?

    OK, time’s up.

    She worked as a junior for the fucking Swedish government in the Assange case! And she whinges on her webpage that she “(a)cted as a led junior in the extradition proceedings against a very well resourced defence team.

    Owen Boycott quotes her as if she’s an independent expert!

    For the sake of argument, though, let’s assume she’s correct here, which she may be.

    Then the question becomes why Russia did it.

    Presumably precisely to spark off a protracted period of people talking to other people, all under the watchful eye of Russian state security.

    Makes me wonder whether the FSR might have had a hand, together with people in Wikileaks, in stitching Snowden up into going to Moscow in the first place.

    PS
    I looked up who was head of chambers where Lindfield works, at 7 Bedford Row. It’s Simeon Maskrey, who says that “since 2008 he has […] been acting for security firms defending actions arising out of injuries sustained in Iraq, Afghanistan and other world-wide trouble spots.”

    Take off your mask, Gemma – you’ve been exposed.

  38. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Jul, 2013 - 7:56 pm

    I see nothing which would threaten NATO status, but sharper eyes are needed.

    http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_24443.htm?selectedLocale=en

  39. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Jul, 2013 - 7:58 pm

    Visions of Tom Hanks in the Terminal….vending machine food…yummy.

  40. @Arbed – yes – the story with Fischer was that first the Icelandic parliament voted to give him the right of abode as a non-national, with a travel document appropriate to that (an “alien’s passport”). The Japanese authorities said they wouldn’t release him from jail and let him out of the country on that document, so the Icelandic parliament then voted to give him full citizenship. They did so against US pressure, and their action was only to be applauded. A country with a small population can do a lot if the will is there. I am really glad that a motion to support Snowden in a similar way will go before the Icelandic parliament. Certainly, everyone in Iceland knows the Fischer case.

    As for Unasur, well let’s hope Snowden gets some support there too, although they can’t grant asylum as far as I am aware. At least one member, Brazil, has already said no.

    A government such as the one in Bolivia does not always get the best legal or PR advice, and I was dismayed when they said they can only consider an asylum request when someone is on Bolivian territory or under Bolivian jurisdiction. If necessary, they too could grant citizenship, or, as you say, they could issue some kind of laissez passer preliminary to a grant of asylum when he arrives.

    It would not surprise me if there was some interesting stuff involving Bolivia at Sheremetevo. In Vienna, there must have been.

  41. N,

    Meanwhile, deep breath…

    WikiLeaks @wikileaks 17m

    Dutch ALDE MEP Sophie Veld says EU has to guarantee Europeans that they are covered by European law, not American law http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/content/20130701STO14753/html/A-question-of-trust-MEPs-call-for-answers-from-US-over-spying-scandal
    Expand
    Reply Retweet Favourite More
    WikiLeaks @wikileaks 18m

    German MEP Jan Philipp Albrecht accuses NSA of “meltdown” and “espionage against democratic countries & institutions” http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/eu-officials-furious-at-nsa-spying-in-brussels-and-germany-a-908614.html
    View summary
    WikiLeaks @wikileaks 19m

    Former Belgian PM and EU parliementary political party head Guy Verhofstadt condemns “American data collection mania” http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/eu-officials-furious-at-nsa-spying-in-brussels-and-germany-a-908614.html
    View summary
    WikiLeaks @wikileaks 19m

    German MEP Markus Ferber says US use of “Stasi methods sacrifices all credibility as a moral authority” http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/eu-officials-furious-at-nsa-spying-in-brussels-and-germany-a-908614.html
    View summary
    WikiLeaks @wikileaks 20m

    Elmar Brok, chairman of Foreign Affairs Committee in European Parliament says NSA spying is “intolerable” http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/eu-officials-furious-at-nsa-spying-in-brussels-and-germany-a-908614.html
    View summary
    WikiLeaks @wikileaks 20m

    Hans-Peter Martin, Austrian European parliamentarian, says US has become a worldwide spy, targeting friends. http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/content/20130701STO14753/html/A-question-of-trust-MEPs-call-for-answers-from-US-over-spying-scandal
    Expand
    WikiLeaks @wikileaks 20m

    Cornelia Ernst, German MEP says US/UK spying “is organised crime at behest of nation states” http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/content/20130701STO14753/html/A-question-of-trust-MEPs-call-for-answers-from-US-over-spying-scandal
    Expand
    WikiLeaks @wikileaks 21m

    Greek EU parliamentarian Dimitrious Droutsas on NSA spying: “we cannot back down on the rights of European citizens” http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/content/20130701STO14753/html/A-question-of-trust-MEPs-call-for-answers-from-US-over-spying-scandal
    Expand
    WikiLeaks @wikileaks 21m

    German Federal Prosecutors investigating whether NSA can be charged for committing crimes against German citizens http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/german-prosecutors-to-review-nsa-spying-allegations-a-908636.html

    I wasn’t kidding when I said this is all becoming a bit Tectonic…

    For Ben, this tweet may give a partial answer to your query about NATO, particular in light of all the above news from Germany:

    WikiLeaks @wikileaks 2 Jul

    States now named: France, Portugal, Italy, Spain. Was the alert NATO wide? If so which NATO state gave airspace from Moscow? Germany?

    N, this conversation may be useful, as regards why Moscow was the first port of call out of Hong Kong:

    Nadim Kobeissi @kaepora 30 Jun

    Snowden is stranded in Russia, and I blame WikiLeaks. Sorry, but Assange’s plan was absolutely ridiculous. http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/julian-assange-edward-snowden-is-marooned-in-russia/2013/06/30/67ed243e-e191-11e2-9960-65d66450db63_story.html?tid=rssfeed
    Details
    WikiLeaks @wikileaks 30 Jun

    @kaepora The plan was to move him to Russia, a country without a US extradition treaty, number one. Number two, asylum in a protective state
    Details
    Reply Retweet Favourite More
    Follow
    WikiLeaksVerified account
    @wikileaks

    @kaepora The current situation was factored into planning. The majority risk was in Hong Kong. It has been eliminated. Odds are good now.

    https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/351526665526054912

    I think we have to trust that these guys have been studying asylum and extradition issues for at least a couple of years now.

  42. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Jul, 2013 - 8:26 pm

    “90 per cent political decisions, and 10 per cent legalities.”

    Hope you’re right. But it is instructive that Egypts coup disqualifies aid from the US. Then I heard an official say ‘there are ways around the Law’…heh.

  43. Oh, and Jon addressed it to “Passerby/Fedup” but I don’t recall you objecting at the time. [Correct me if I’m wrong.]

    He has the IP in front of him, and he can see who is posting!

    Cease and desist from banging on about this one and that one, will you?

    ======

    The bum steer of Snowden is on board the Evo’s ride, is the best indication of Russians have pretty much worked out the CIA set-up. Which extends to the satellite nations’ SIS. It is evident that the Western ” 007″s have turned out to be “00 2 and one eighth”s.. Needless to point out as Trowbridge says;

    Western intelligence agencies are the slowest learners on the planet because they are always using the same methods to prove that they finally got it right.

    The formula is the more money you throw at it, the more likely there will be a breakthrough, a nice arrangement for all concerned, they get paid for failure just like their bosses the banksters.

  44. All he needs to do is find a country run by people who have nothing to hide. A country which doesn’t spy on it’s people, doesn’t spy on it’s neighbours.

    With around 200 countries in the world how difficult can that be?

  45. @ Arbed 7 39pm

    My money’s with yours Arbed. Here’s what one wrote earlier:

    “Villager
    3 Jul, 2013 – 8:50 pm
    I hope the silver lining to all this is that the South American countries will come together to find a solution to Snowden and present it as a joint solution so that the eventual country is not singled out for persecution. I can imagine that once settled a Russian military plane could render him to his asylum. Belarus is now being mentioned as a possible host.

    I’d love to know the contents of the Correa-Biden call. Could it be that Assange’s safe passage was discussed? Since Correa seems so satisfied with that call.”

  46. No country is going to give Snowden asylum under threat of politically frustrating and expensive US penalties. Let’s not kid ourselves here – countries do not imperil their national interests out of admiration for foreign whistleblowers.

    There are two options for Snowden, in my estimation. One, an indefinite legally anomalous situation, like Snowden’s supposed present state of limbo at Sheremetyevo or, two, disappearing with a new identity never to be heard from again — unless safe to reappear.
    . . . .

    The media has been trying to depict Wikileaks as obstructing contact between Snowden and his family in the US. It’s almost certainly the case that the FBI have been working on Snowden’s family to convince them with false assurances that Snowden’s best prospects lie for him in returning to the US. Any attempted contact by his father would be under surveillance to ascertain Snowden’s exact whereabouts. So it is perfectly reasonable that communications channels should be obfuscated by Wikileaks to prevent this. Snowden could, after all, be in another country already.

  47. dirty sanchez

    4 Jul, 2013 - 9:48 pm

    It’s beginning to dawn on the EOP knuckledraggers that Snowden might have material that is not only outside his compartments but way above his pay grade. And that the latter might not have come to this honnête homme purely by serendipity, as in the case of Sibel Edmonds. The community of professional subversives is small and tight-knit, but not necessarily monolithic. As anybody with a grain of sense knows, you don’t piss off people who know how to knock over a regime.

    Panicked by fears of worse to come, the USG has made a joke of its pretense of rule of law and is now snared in a process called mobilizing shame. The world is now baiting the US like cops bait a drunk driver, savoring his diminished capacity and loss of control, seeing what new offense they can provoke. The permanent government will emerge from this wringer on a diplomatic par with the Symbionese Liberation Army. Heads will roll. You can almost taste the chyme Obama’s cheesing up into his mouth. Titan Group, feeling smug? Don’t.

  48. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Jul, 2013 - 9:58 pm

    Transcendental Aestheticism (Kant)

    Mobilizing Shame (thx Dirty) http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/saq/summary/v103/103.2keenan.html

    “In this regard, mobilizing shame has Enlightenment roots, as many have pointed out. But they are contradictory ones. Kant defined Enlightenment as the release or exit from heteronomy, from dependence or reliance on the opinions of others, and as growing up out of shame and into courage, reason, and conscience. But the sign of an accomplished Enlightenment is, he adds, the use of that reason in public, so as to engage with others and change their opinions. The Kantian moral subject is fully realized only when his or her reason is liberated from the guidance, surveillance, pressure, or context of others, but at the same time when it is destined for public exchange, exposure, or enlightenment. Reason must be employed in public, says Kant, if there is to be any possibility of progress or social transformation; beliefs and institutions have no hope of survival if they are not exposed to reason, to judgments sparked by its critical force in public. Reason works when it exposes, reveals, and argues.

    Mobilizing Shame

    No one seems to be able to pinpoint the moment when the phrase mobilizing shame entered our lexicon. Robert Drinan, in his recent book The Mobilization of Shame, credits what his footnote calls “Turkey campaign documents, Amnesty International” as the source of the phrase, but fails to supply a date or a title. The first published references, though, go a long way toward sketching the essential elements of the concept as…”

  49. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Jul, 2013 - 10:04 pm

    “A few Minutes of Reflection this 4th of July

    Thursday, 4. July 2013 by Sibel Edmonds

    “I hereby declare, on oath, that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic”- Naturalization Oath of Allegiance to the USA

    During this celebratory holiday please take a few minutes to read our Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights, and US Citizenship-Office Oath. Please do it.

    You will not find the word ‘Flag.’

    You will not see the word ‘Borders.’

    You will not see the words ‘National Security.’

    What you will see is the word ‘Constitution.’

    What you will find is the obligation to defend, not the ‘flag,’ ‘borders’ or ‘government’, but the United States Constitution, and defend it against foreign and domestic enemies. Read more ?
    – See more at: http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/#sthash.chROQLjS.dpuf

  50. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Jul, 2013 - 10:50 pm

    Musical interlude;

    Rikki Tikki Tavi—Not Donovan’s best arrangement, but the lyrics are spot on especially for today.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY7Rxae4pjU

  51. Michael Moore has tweeted (and Wikileaks has re-tweeted)

    Michael Moore ‏@MMFlint
    The most badass thing Morales could do is fly back to Moscow, NOW, pick up Snowden, & take him out of there — and dare Europe to stop him.

  52. Secret Police Before and After

  53. Vienna, Moscow… tunnels, men with brief-cases and large ears. It’s just like the old days! Park benches, dead drops, listening rocks. Lots of men named, ‘Sasha’ and ‘Major Halliday’. Deals-behind-the-scenes. A dangle? Now, who is dangling what before whom?

    “Did we meet in California?”
    “No, it was in St Louis.”

    Ben, 10:50pm, 4.7.13. ‘Riki Tiki Tavi’ – good song, from the much-underrated Open Road LP, 1970. He was from Glasgow, Mr Leitch, you know, originally. Like Billy Connolly, Maryhill.

    “Did we meet in Maryhill?”
    “No, it was in Arizona.”

    I mean, let’s be frank. Did anyone here NOT already know that as far as countries go, everyone spies on everyone else and that the UK/USA too spies on their own citizens? Has everyone not known this since at least the 1980s and possibly the 1960s? Does anyone really believe that intelligence services anywhere adhere to the law of the land (any land)? I mean, really?

    It was news to me, however, that the fascinating and critical subject of the electrical wiring in my house is available to the NSA/GCHQ. This may explain why, suddenly and without warning last week, my microwave went on the blink: The light’s on but there’s no-one at home.

    “How is the tea in Azerbaijan?”
    “It rains often in Maryhill.”

  54. Now, who is dangling what before whom?

    Is that not illegal, and have they caught the perp, or has he (always he s do this sort of thing) given them the slip. Austrians probably were looking for the Macintosh in the Plane!

    “Did we meet in California?”
    “No, it was in St Louis.”

    I have mislaid my one time pad, can you decode it just this once?

    Did anyone here NOT already know that as far as countries go, everyone spies on everyone else and that the UK/USA too spies on their own citizens?

    Why do they have embassies and fill them with Military attaches then? So far as population goes, best not speculate on that!!!

    fascinating and critical subject of the electrical wiring in my house is available to the NSA/GCHQ.

    Boy you have lead a very sheltered life. That was the good old days, now they can divine your ass in milliseconds, their technology entails pretty surprising stuff. Be happy and thank your lucky stars that your microwave has not been talking to you.

    “How is the tea in Azerbaijan?”
    “It rains often in Maryhill.”

    Oh the rain mainly falls on the plain, and tea is pretty rotten in Azerbaijan, Aliev keeps pissing in the teapot, and tells everybody it is Lapsang Souchong they are drinking. As you know it is an acquired taste, just as in case of horse meat.

  55. Secret Police Before and After

    “Before” goes to the broom cupboard down the corridor, can you give it another try?

  56. “That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness… when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security…”
    US Declaration of Independence, July 1776

    Here’s Richie Havans. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfTjF38wDxM

    And the original, improvised after three hours , having run out of songs, while waiting for the other bands were stuck trying to get to there…..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5aPBU34Fyk

  57. aha
    the last part of the link ‘before’ is
    http://www.nsa.gov/public_info/speeches_testimonies/3jul13_4th.shtml

  58. “Be happy and thank your lucky stars that your microwave has not been talking to you.” Fedup.

    Actually, it has. It says:

    “I’m fed up I’m not fed up.”

    “Boy you have lead a very sheltered life. That was the good old days, now they can divine your ass in milliseconds, their technology entails pretty surprising stuff.” Fedup.

    My microwave also intones (in Russian bass):

    “I think you needlessly may be carrying over aggression from a previous thread and so have lifetd up the wrong stick altogether. Stop beating yourself around the ass [the microwave learned their English from an American]. You need to go to Azerbaijan, ride some ass into the mountains of Kaukash and drink some dictator tea, renowned for its therapeutic properties.”

  59. Barack Obama. 2008

    “I will provide our intelligence and law enforcement agencies with the tools they need to track and take out the terrorists without undermining our Constitution and our freedom. That means no more illegal wire-tapping of American citizens. No more national security letters to spy on citizens who are not suspected of a crime. No more tracking citizens who do nothing more than protest a misguided war. No more ignoring the law when it is inconvenient. That is not who we are.”

    2013. The “without undermining our Constitution” sounds pretty silly now.

    More at: http://rt.com/op-edge/white-house-effect-obama-598/

  60. Bolivia threatens to close US embassy. Let’s hope they do it! Once again, let Bolivia give a lead to the world, as it did at the time of the 2009 Gaza massacre.

    Let’s look towards not just shutting US embassies, but sanctions against the criminal US regime, to be imposed by as many countries as possible.

  61. @Jemand “No country is going to give Snowden asylum under threat of politically frustrating and expensive US penalties. Let’s not kid ourselves here – countries do not imperil their national interests out of admiration for foreign whistleblowers.

    Er, Philip Agee? The word “whistleblower” is functioning in a Bernaysian way here. Everyone interested in thinking about elint has known for decades about the NSA. In the UK context, hello Menwith Hill and hello Diego Garcia. There’s stuff from the 1970s and 1980s by Duncan Campbell. European and other governments could have spoken about this years ago, if they’d wanted to. They didn’t want to. Now they do. That isn’t because it’s been in the newspapers. It’s about trade. All politics is about money.

    Compare the Vanunu case. Everyone interested in thinking about Israeli strategic capability had known about Israeli nukes for years. The British government still doesn’t talk about them. Nor do the German, French, US governments etc. I note that while “NSA” is the topic du jour in the chattering classes, there’s little talk of concrete things such as

    * closing Menwith Hill near Harrogate in Yorkshire, one of the biggest US spy bases in the world, and which is rigged in to the UK microwave system

    * asking why the CIA Head of Station in London attends the weekly meetings of the UK Joint Intelligence Committee (bit of an effing giveaway, that one!)

    Instead, there is drivel about ‘international law’ and so on. Although I welcome this kind of talk as one way to support Edward Snowden, let’s not start believing it…

  62. For posters still interested in why America’s stooges in Europe hijacked Evo Morales’ plane, I suggest they read about what Sweden’s Lex Orwell gave its FRA, the eavesdropping agency, especially since almost all Russian internet traffic is routed through Sweden.

    Just imagine what false information Russian spooks could put in the minds of Russophobes who want to establish even closer relations with its American boss, the NSA.

    And can anyone believe the advice that CIA whistleblower John Kiriakou is providing Snowden, hoping that he will come back to the States to face the music!

    If he does so, he will end up dead.

    And don’t forget that all letters by Kiriakou must meet the approval of his jailers.

    When I wrote Rick Ames about his role in preventing the shooting of Palme from resulting in armageddon, he reminded me of his conditions in federal prison, stating he could never discuss anything so outlandish.

  63. Bolivia says the Spanish ambassador to Austria, Yago Pico de Coaña y de Valicourt, turned up at the airport in Vienna and wanted to come on board to search the plane, but was refused.

    What’s going to come out next about what happened in Vienna?

    Who else was there, for starters?

    I notice that Aeroflot have got a terminal there.

    Wink!

  64. D’oh! I mean Aeroflot have got an office at Vienna’s Schwechat airport, not a whole terminal! :-)

  65. “US sends [Irish] Government arrest warrant for Snowden”
    ‘Move a pre-emptive strike to stop fugitive intelligence analyst landing at Shannon on way to Cuba’

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/us-sends-government-arrest-warrant-for-snowden-1.1453364

    They should send the damn thing straight back, and tell the U.S. that Snowden will be accorded the same facilities as U.S. troops passing through Shannon!!

    However, there’s a little chink (maybe)

    “However, if he travelled via Shannon as part of his efforts to get to Cuba and was arrested under the provisional arrest warrant pending an extradition process by the American authorities in the Irish courts, he could apply for asylum while being held in prison here.”

    ‘Twould be very risky thing to rely on … very very

  66. Btw, according to G Greenwald

    NOTE: Snowden’s leak is basically done. It’s newspapers – not Snowden – deciding what gets disclosed and in what sequence.

    https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/351730381478821888

  67. Trowbridge, 12.17pm

    I’ve known about Sweden’s FRA laws for quite some time. Here’s my favourite Rixstep article of all time. It has lots to say on how the new surveillance laws were sneaked through parliament by subterfuge.

    http://rixstep.com/1/20080608,00.shtml

  68. @Dreoilin

    (Ireland’s) Extradition Act 1965, section 10:

    Ireland can only extradite under this Act if the person’s alleged offence would be an offence in Ireland punishable by at least a year in prison.

    Moreover, they may not use this Act to extradite for an alleged “political” offence, or for “an offence connected with a political offence” (section 11).

    Would the US say “imagine if Ireland had an agency which had an enormous international electronic spying capability, monitoring all internet and telephone traffic, which everyone knew about, and then one of its members told everyone”? :-)

    This is not to say I’d fancy Snowden’s chances in an Irish court.

    Once again, I urge people to look at the Bobby Fischer case. Since playing chess in Yugoslavia was never against the law in Japan, it would not have been lawful to extradite Fischer from Japan to the US. The US just wanted to grab him.

    (Background: they revoked his passport behind his back, having recently renewed it – far more recently than the chess match in Yugoslavia – and got him arrested when attempting to enter Japan using a so-called “illegal” passport which he’d never been told had been revoked. This was probably in response to him goading the CIA on the radio.)

    Has someone got a copy of the US arrest warrant served on Ireland?

  69. Thanks, Arbed.

    Lost a post through CAPTCHA censorship, so I shall just say that I thought Lex Orwell permitted wireless data mining.

    Being cable traffic, Russian must have realized its impact on their internet cable transmissions, and taken full advantage of it for Snowden’s benefit – a whistleblower everyone should want to protect despite the slowness and situation under which he decided to become one.

  70. but newspapers have been served with D-notices, so Snowdens release, logged with them according to GGreenwald, will at best be a long drawn out affair that reveals very little, it will be lawyers deciding what gets published, if anything gets published at all.

    The reactions from Europe are tectonic and so are Bolivia’s measures. I would not discount a witness protection from a German Government, especially if SPD and CDU/CSU agree, it very much depends whether Ms. Merkel remembers her youth under the Stasi in East Germany and her discussion with Obama, the buster of all sovereignty.

    Arbed, I knew of Julian’s abilities, did not mean to come over as presumptuous and lecturing, I leave that to it.
    Merely wanted to encourage a daily random sweep of his office.

  71. And Snowden certainly didn’t miss Wikileaks posting the Afghan Log without making the necessary redactions – what led not only to Gareth Williams’ horrific murder but also Gudrun Loftus’s when she indicated that she was taking his place, and that of Steve Rawlings when he raised questions about how she had fallen down the stars at St. John’s College, Oxford, and who had found her body.

    As for any German protection plan for Snowden, remember, in the final analysis, Merkel is apparently badly damaged goods, having been it seems, the Stasi/KGB agent ANITA.

  72. Of course, I meant the stairs at St. John’s, the ones right outside the Senior Common where she had planned a meeting with someone on that early October morning.

  73. Manning, Assange and Snowden are our version of Glasnost. All power to them.

    The Wikipedia page on Wayne Madsen has changed since Flaming June posted her quote from it – specifically the bit about the source being “left field” but the information “largely true” was removed, but the relevant source footnote (24) remains and leads here: http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/06/30/the-absolute-joy-of-the-guardians-sting-over-prism-and-the-nsa/

    [quote]It looks like The Guardian/Observer has managed to get itself mightily stung over a revelation about PRISM and the NSA. Which is all very amusing given the paper’s part in the Glenn Greenwald/Edward Snowden revelations. But what turns it into an absolute joy is that, while the news originally came from someone with, hmm, rather “out there” views, the actual information itself seems to be roughly true. And yet they’ve still taken the piece down.[/quote]

  74. Looks like Stockholm passed the disinformation about Snowden being on the Bolivian President’s plane to London who got Spain to act on it – what Madrid now declines to discuss.

    The Spanish right wingers have been taking the word of Britain’s since before the 3/11 tragedy there.

    Little wonder now that Bildt has gotten Sweden and the UK to stonewall any discussion by the EU of the USA’s espionage on the continent.

    And then there is Merkel aka ANITA if more stonewalling is required.

  75. Worth listening to Kim Dotcom’s address to New Zealand parliamentary committee on the peeping Toms and voyeurs who take it to themselves to lord over us:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cvgZsl_Prg

    “The Lives of Others”

    Worse than the Stasi.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0405094/

  76. Spain/Portugal doing this to the Bolivian President, especially with Evo Morales, also resurrects the colonial angle. It rightly will play very badly in South and Central America. It’s really shameful and makes Spain/Portugal look like colonial overseers for the USA, which is kind of what they’ve shown themselves to be in this situation. One imagines economic pressure may have been used; the two Iberian countries are in dire straits and it would be very easy for the USA/Wall St to pressure them. With this action, a Rubicon (another) has been crossed. Craig is right to express outrage. If the US President’s ‘plane had been grounded and a threat made to search it, the USA would have gone to war. Same with the UK and The Queen, or PM. This is an act of war.

  77. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    5 Jul, 2013 - 6:54 pm

    Hypothetical non-denial denial…http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2013/07/211535.htm#SNOWDEN

    QUESTION: But if the – if a similar situation were to happen involving Air Force One, it would be an international incident.

    MS. PSAKI: I’m not getting into a hypothetical. That’s not something that is currently happening that we’re currently discussing.

    QUESTION: Well, the approach to this question may be better this way – I still don’t think you’re going to answer it, but I think it’s going to put you on the spot more – (laughter) – than that question was because it’s not a hypothetical: Does the United States or would the United States condone breaches in protocols of diplomatic protocols of the Vienna conventions?

    MS. PSAKI: Well, Matt, this wasn’t a case where this was our airspace or this was –

    QUESTION: I understand that. But when the British Embassy is attacked someplace, you come out and say this is horrible, this is bad. When any number of infringements of diplomatic immunities and other protocols specified in the Vienna Conventions, when those happen you have – this government has in the past condemned them. So would the United States –

    MS. PSAKI: But Matt, some of these cases, the countries have said they didn’t shut down the airspace. So –

    QUESTION: Well, I mean, I’m not even getting into – I’m not even – it’s not clear to me that shutting down an airspace or not allowing transit is a violation of the Vienna Convention. But I’m just wondering – I don’t know that. But I just want to know, in a general sense, would the United States condone breaches of the diplomatic – of international diplomatic protocols?

    MS. PSAKI: Well, why don’t you – no, but why don’t you delve into where you’re getting at here, Matt? What are you trying to get at?

    QUESTION: I’m trying to get an answer to Roz’s question.

    MS. PSAKI: Okay, the hypothetical about Air Force One being denied –

    QUESTION: So the answer – the answer – but this – no, no, no, no. Let me – because this is not a hypothetical. If you are – if you can stand up and say that you are willing – the government is willing to say that it would condemn any violations of diplomatic immunities or the protocols in the Vienna Conventions, then –

    MS. PSAKI: Matt, I’m not going to get into a broad hypothetical with you.

    QUESTION: It’s not a hypothetical. It’s not a hypothetical.

    QUESTION: But this did happen. The President of Bolivia had to spend – I mean, sorry, Ecuador – had to spend –

    QUESTION: No, Bolivia.

    MS. PSAKI: Bolivia.

  78. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    5 Jul, 2013 - 7:01 pm

  79. And so is this largely a message to South America, that ‘We can do anything we want, so don’t even think about messing with us in any way whatsoever’? Next time, they’ll crash the ‘plane, possibly using a Jihadist patsy or else a missile.

    Think: Dag Hammarskjold.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/17/dag-hammarskjold-un-secretary-general-crash

  80. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/18/inquiry-death-un-dag-hammarskjold-2

    At the time, many people thought there’d been a conspiracy. Typically, it takes 50 years…. and then, when it no longer matters, politically, they say, “Ah well, there may have been a conspiracy, after all!”

  81. Right, Suhayl Saadi, there are conspiracies all the time, and the more complicated they are, the more likely they will cause surprises, unexpected consequences, and the like, leading to difficult outcomes which researchers either accidentally or deliberately are apt to get wrong.

    Plotted assassinations of single individuals are much more apt to go according to plan, like those of Anna Lindh, MLK, RFK, Governor Wallace, Alexandr Litvinenko, etc., ad nauseam.

    When you mix them with something else, like getting rid of Castro’s Cuba, or the Soviet Union, they almost invariably go wrong.

    In the Bolivian President’s fiasco, conditions are already getting fuzzy by people talking about the denial of air space to the plane when the Spanish Foreign Minister said that it was diverted, apparently by threats of force, to go to Vienna.

    This was a massive cockup which ended up being a surprise act of war.

  82. Yes, those are some excellent points, Trowbridge. And of course, the SIS is likely to have played a central role in the assassination of Patrice Lumumba too.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/02/mi6-patrice-lumumba-assassination

  83. “At a rally before the meeting, Maduro claimed that the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) had ordered France, Portugal, Italy and Spain to deny access to Morales’s plane on Tuesday.

    “‘A minister of one of these European governments personally told us by telephone that they were going to apologise because they were surprised, and that those who gave the order to aviation authorities in this country … were the CIA,’ he said.”

    http://mg.co.za/article/2013-07-05-bolivia-threatens-to-close-us-embassy-2

    “Has someone got a copy of the US arrest warrant served on Ireland?”

    I’ll see about putting in an FOI request. They’ll have a month to respond. I can’t see any reason they could use to refuse it.

    I wonder if the U.S. has described him correctly in the arrest warrant. I’ve seen him referred to as ‘stateless’ now (I think by himself) but revoking a passport is not the same as revoking citizenship, surely.

  84. “US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) had ordered France, Portugal, Italy and Spain …”

    God, that just makes me incandescent!

  85. Yes, me too, Dreolin. I think that we – I mean all of us – need independence, don’t you? Because what this episode most clearly has demonstrated is that we are not independent. We are a large US colony (and there is no hyperbole in that statement). I always knew that The UK had been craven to the USA since 1956, but it’s now become obvious to the world that the rest of Europe is too. This is a declaration of war against what used to be known as, ‘The Third World’. Well, no, actually we’ve been at war with the ‘Third World’ for at least two hundred-and-fifty years. I think henceforth we should refer to the CIA as our Government. We are ruled from Langley, Virginia and the Director of the CIA is our Colonial Governor. The gloves are off, the masks are off. The truth is revealed. Good.

    That there is little anger at all this from within our establishments is emblematic of the lobotomisation of our political culture.

  86. Agree 100% Suhayl.

    I would have half-expected Europe to cave to the U.S., but the confirmation has left me angry.

    I do NOT live in the jurisdiction of the United States but I can repeat that till I’m blue in the face and it’ll change nothing, in reality.

  87. From a link posted by Ben on the ‘Pandering to Racism’ thread

    http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2013/07/211535.htm#SNOWDEN

    MS. PSAKI “The public – many – the public – but decisions made over the course of the last week or so, whether they’re public comments about whether or not they’ll accept asylum – his asylum request, or whether it’s closing airspace, are decisions made by individual countries. And I would point you to them to describe why they made decisions if they made decisions, and I know there have already been a range of public comments out there.”

  88. Possibly disinformation … who knows?

    “The Austrian daily newspaper, Die Presse, has reported that the United States ambassador to Austria was responsible for making false claims that National Security Agency whistleblower Edward Snowden was on board Bolivian President Evo Morales’ plane.”

    http://12160.info/profiles/blogs/ambassador-snitc

  89. Sorry, here’s the corrct link:
    http://12160.info/profiles/blogs/ambassador-snitch

  90. RT reporting that a pre-emptive arrest warrant has been issued to the Irish Government. In case Snowden stops over in Shannon airport. I am reminded of Zakalwe in Use of Weapons, bemoaning the fact The Culture had simply no idea about fair play.

    And, it has been noticeable how many Governments the world over just roll over to have their bellies tickled. By noticeable I meant ‘pathetic’. Every time Hague, or Bob Carr wibbles on, I just feel a profound embarrassment. They are clearly just bought and paid for, and Bob Carr in particular just isn’t especially bright. This is the quality of ‘leadership’ the US gives us, and it isn’t impressive.

  91. “Use of No Fly List to Pressure Americans Abroad to Become Informants

    The number of U.S. persons on the No Fly List has more than doubled since 2009, and people mistakenly on the list are denied their due process rights to meaningfully challenge their inclusion. In many cases Americans only find out they are on the list while they are traveling abroad, which all but forces them to interact with the U.S. government from a position of extreme vulnerability, and often without easy access to counsel. Many of those prevented from flying home have been subjected to FBI interviews while they sought assistance from U.S. Embassies to return. In those interviews, FBI agents sometimes offer to take people off the No Fly List if they agree to become an FBI informant. In 2010 the ACLU and its affiliates filed a lawsuit on behalf of 10 American citizens and permanent residents, including several U.S. military veterans, seven of whom were prevented from returning home until the suit was filed. We argue that barring them from flying without due process was unconstitutional. There are now 13 plaintiffs; none have been charged with a crime, told why they are barred from flying, or given an opportunity to challenge their inclusion on the No Fly List.”

    http://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/ten-most-disturbing-things-you-should-know-about-fbi-911

  92. Thanks for that link, Macky – that’s a handy checklist for most of the world’s population to keep in its back pocket. S’Funny, but I could swear that the jurisdiction of the FBI was meant to be internal to the US – certainly not the case anymore. Raided Bradley Manning’s mum in Wales (and she’s poorly, the bastards); conducted unauthorised interrogations of teenage informants in Iceland about Wikileaks; the list goes on…

    Unrelated, but I read a very good article about how Correa was between a rock and a hard place re Snowden:

    http://www.ibtimes.com/ed-snowden-throws-ecuador-disarray-government-may-have-proposal-him-assange-1334937#.UdcHxAE2-Ck.twitter

    The desire to protect a human rights whistleblower was there – and still very much ‘live’ – but it was going to severely dent Ecuador’s efforts to attract foreign investment to keep the Amazon oil deposits underground (worth $6 bn, and Ecuador was looking for $3bn to fund this environmental effort to avoid the drilling) – the US would most certainly put the kibosh on any of that investment flow if Snowden ended up in Ecuador.

    Apparently, Correa has now gone off on the holiday he delayed last week to deal with the chaos Snowden’s asylum application created (instant MSM smear drives, hacking of government communications, etc). Perhaps the leaders of UNASUR had a quiet chat behind the scenes about what they could collectively come up with to help Snowden, so Correa knew it’d be safe to start that holiday last night. ;)

    In terms of resisting US pressure, Venezuela is by far the best option. Presumably, the rest of the Latam left bloc will rally behind Maturo now. The Morales plane incident gave them all the excuse they need (not that their outrage isn’t justified and totally sincere, of course – but it is convenient ;)). Looks like Julian Assange’s initial assessment when Snowden first appeared that Latam was the place to head was spot on.

    Well played, everyone! Well played.

  93. The turf wars between the Bureau and the CIA continue to go on, Arbed, despite any laws, and assurances about cooperating in investigations.

    After the 9/11 cockups, the CIA embedded at least four agents within the New York Police Department to make sure that it did not discover that it had taken over surveillance of the 19 high jackers in the hope of catching them red-handed when all the planes landed at LA’s International Airport.

    Unfortunately, they proved to be suicide bombers, killing 15 unarmed CIA agents on the three last planes in the process = what the US government still keeps covered up by refusing to release the full passenger lists.

    Of course, the embedded agents made sure that the NYPD never got onto this, taking leaves of absence from the Agency and other subterfuge to engage in illegal domestic law enforcement and domestic spying.

    The Bureau’s engaging in foreign spying and law enforcement even helped trigger Snowden’s whistle blowing, the way I see it. The Bureau acted way too unilaterally in entrapping defense contractor Ben Bishop in a honey-trap operation in Hawaii. And when the CIA learned of Snowden’s growing disaffection, it tried to use the same Chinese national, known as Person 1 in the Bishop case, to snare Snowdev. When he learned, it seems, what was afoot, he fled to HK with all the secrets, the most telling of which remain to be revealed, he could lay his hands on.

    Interesting that the NYT cannot bring itself to face up to the full scope of the problems Snowden has raised, only alluding, for example, to the questions the embedding of the Agency agents in the NYPD after 9/11 raised in today’s issue.

  94. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    6 Jul, 2013 - 3:19 pm

    Venezuela offers asylum. Also Nicaragua (Daniel Ortega)

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/05/world/americas/venezuela-snowden/

  95. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    6 Jul, 2013 - 3:24 pm

    Oh I missed Suhayl’s entry. Ironic that Daniel Ortega, still alive, has offered sanctuary some 30 years after the Agency first sought his demise.

  96. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    6 Jul, 2013 - 3:25 pm

    “The desire to protect a human rights whistleblower was there – and still very much ‘live’ – but it was going to severely dent Ecuador’s efforts to attract foreign investment to keep the Amazon oil deposits underground (worth $6 bn, and Ecuador was looking for $3bn to fund this environmental effort to avoid the drilling) – the US would most certainly put the kibosh on any of that investment flow if Snowden ended up in Ecuador.”

    Carrot/stick diplomacy, Arbed.

  97. “Lost a post through CAPTCHA censorship, …”

    Hilarious.

  98. There is always something funny about you, Jemand.

  99. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    6 Jul, 2013 - 4:27 pm

    Some payoff for Guardian. Now if the Media could understand their traffic, ratings and circulation could improve by serving the Public interest.

    http://paidcontent.org/2013/07/05/guardian-gets-online-traffic-boost-from-snowden-story-now-nipping-at-nyts-heels/

  100. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    6 Jul, 2013 - 4:35 pm

    Bolivia now offering asylum

  101. Think I have finally figured out why the Bureau is so interested in making out that I may have been acting as one Stephen Nickerson, known him, or consulted with him.

    The FBI has been most eager to determine if the Chinese really have an American asset involved in naval research – i.e., what Person 1 in the Ben Bishop alleged spy case was constantly asking him about, and suspect that a Stephen Nickerson may be he, and I might be fitted up as he or able to shed light on it.

    The most likely suspect seems to be another one around the Denver area – like the photographer Steve Nickerson who died a few Saturdays ago.

    This one is a systems engineering senior MGR in research and development in the Lockheed Martin plant in the greater Denver area.

    Seems that the Bureau wanted to drag in this Stephen Nickerson, rightly or wrongly, into the honey-trap the Chinese national was trying to drag Snowden into, so that the Agency would have a more concrete spying case against him, and probably me.

    Lockheed Martin is, of course, deeply involved in military research and development. Just last year it signed a large contract from the Office of Naval Research to develop of all kinds of solid state electrical sources for strategic and tactical purposes.

    Just too bad that the Bureau is more interested in making spies rather than just dealing with the ones who just come along.

  102. Trowbridge – “There is always something funny about you, Jemand.”

    I often try to be, but usually to no avail, alas. But thanks, Trowbridge. Nice to be appreciated.

    Can I invite you to comment on how current events might be connected with the Whitlam dismissal, if you see any connection?

  103. Sure, Jenand.

    Whitlam and Snowden were decent chaps, trying to do their jobs, only to find out that they were caught, as they say,, between a rock and a hard place.

    When Whitlam became Australia’s PM, he knew that a lot of things needed to be cleaned up, like shutting down what the Americans were doing at Pine Gap, and cleaning up their establishments on the Northwest Cape, only to learn that the country had been taken over by the Agency’s drug thugs, starting with Ted Shackley and DCI Pappy Bush.

    They got Governor General Sir James Kerr to dismiss him, and he was gone for good.

    Snowden was an accomplished hacker, most willing to keep secrets, and cut the balls off those who disclosed them, only to learn that his employers were quite willing to betray naive Americans who worked them aka the Manhattan 11, and kill those who seriously complained about it, like Gareth Williams, Gudrun Loftus and John Wheeler.

    The only reason that Snowden hasn’t yet been destroyed is that he saw what was coming, and took all the counter measures he could to save himself.

    in sum, he is becoming a hero rather than just another nobody.

  104. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    6 Jul, 2013 - 5:40 pm

    Trowbridge;

    Speaking of Whitlam, I remember Christopher Boyce, who had a Manning-type meltdown and flew into a self-destructive life-path. It was the erroneous cable @TRW which sent him flying.

    It goes to show, that a lot of the recruitment for security clearance employment is the ‘good ole boy’ network, and is highly suspect to outbreaks of conscience and fury.

  105. Right, Ben, Boyce is Snowden’s model, and probable hero.

    Snowden knows to deal with others directly, don’t trust anyone naively, and to never give up – what led to Boyce’s betrayal.

    And can anyone doubt that he did the right thing despite paying most heavily for it.

    Loved the CNN interview with Boyce when it acted as if the criminality of Bush et al. is still a matter of debate, and the fact that they were running the global drug cartel was simply ignored.

    Hope that Boyce proves wrong in stating that Snowden is doomed. Perhaps, it is just intended to give his enemies a false sense of confidence about it.

  106. US request for extradition of Edward Snowden – full text

    A copy of the request sent to Venezuela to extradite the NSA whistleblower to the US should he arrive in the South American country

    Full document at link http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2013/jul/06/us-request-extradition-edward-snowden

  107. NSA recruitment (“NSA Is Coming to Your Campus”) crashes and burns at University of Wisconsin.

    http://mobandmultitude.com/2013/07/02/the-nsa-comes-recruiting/

    Some students and I had an exchange with NSA recruiters today. The audio and a rough transcript below.

    The NSA came to recruit at a language program at the University of Wisconsin where I am spending my summer learning a language. Two recruiters, a redhead who looked more like a middle-aged 2013 NSA flyer copymother (listed as “NSA_F” below) and a portly, balding man (“NSA_M”), began to go through slides explaining the NSA and its work.

    …Student A (female): I have a lifestyle question that you seem to be selling. It sounds more like a colonial expedition. You know the “globe is our playground” is the words you used, the phrasing that you used and you seem to be saying that you can do your work. You can analyze said documents for your so-called customers but then you can go and get drunk and dress up and have fun without thinking of the repercussions of the info you’re analyzing has on the rest of the world. I also want to know what are the qualifications that one needs to become a whistleblower because that sounds like a much more interesting job. And I think the Edward Snowdens and the Bradley Mannings and Julian Assanges of the world will prevail ultimately.

    Much more at link http://mobandmultitude.com/2013/07/02/the-nsa-comes-recruiting/

  108. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    6 Jul, 2013 - 8:38 pm

    The extradition order had the temerity to invoke the Ministry for popular power pg 7

    http://www.oas.org/dil/Nota_República_Bolivariana_Venezuela_to_SG.English.pdf

    “At the time, it was very important for the countries of our region to ratify the American Convention on Human Rights and to institutionalize mechanisms that would help establish a framework for the promotion and protection of human rights in the region. Our country was one of the first to ratify the Pact of San José—it was the only one to have done so through a unilateral declaration—and it was the second to accept the Court’s jurisdiction.
    Later on, as of the promulgation of its Constitution in 1999, the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela focused even more extensively on the human rights and fundamental freedoms and guarantees enjoyed by all residents of the country, while also legally recognizing and upholding the rights of indigenous communities and environmental”

  109. Courtenay Barnett

    7 Jul, 2013 - 12:39 am

    @ Craig,
    You said:-
    “Will EVERYBODY please tackle the arguments commenters make, and not refer to their motives for making them – which you cannot know – or that people are paid, or their personality traits, or somebody else.
    What interests me is the arguments people put. I think most of the imputations made on all sides are probably inaccurate, but even if they were accurate they are irrelevant. A man or woman may be a one-eyed former contract killer with a cocaine habit in the pay of the state of Israel, but may still make an argument that is absolutely correct. Please address the argument, not the person. Posts which fail to do this will be deleted when seen.”
    And President Barack Obama said:-
    “I will provide our intelligence and law enforcement agencies with the tools they need to track and take out the terrorists without undermining our Constitution and our freedom. That means no more illegal wire-tapping of American citizens. No more national security letters to spy on citizens who are not suspected of a crime. No more tracking citizens who do nothing more than protest a misguided war. No more ignoring the law when it is inconvenient. That is not who we are.”
    So – the ones who post and debate are really caught between the motives and the cynical and manipulative political processes afoot. The challenge then, for the posters and debaters, is to distinguish between the initial appearance and the underlying reality.
    CB

  110. “A man or woman may be a one-eyed former contract killer with a cocaine habit in the pay of the state of Israel…” Craig.

    I see Robert Newton as Bill Sykes, in the 1948 film version of ‘Oliver Twist’.

  111. Michael Moore has tweeted (and Wikileaks has re-tweeted)

    Michael Moore ‏@MMFlint
    The most badass thing Morales could do is fly back to Moscow, NOW, pick up Snowden, & take him out of there — and dare Europe to stop him.

    While I agree totally with the sentiment, this statement seems to have been made without any knowledge of aicrafts’ ranges and refuelling.

    The government of Bolivia can’t just lay its hands on an aircraft able to fly non-stop from Moscow to Bolivia..

    The need to refuel is what the whole business about the Canary Islands and the Spanish ambassador was about. It’s also what the business about Ireland and Shannon was about. And the opponents are powerful – able to coerce some other governments into tearing up overflight permissions at the last moment. (Hello France.)

    Of course people can say just fly out of there and dare them not to allow you an emergency landing. But then you find you’re stuck at Schwechat in Austria. Next time, if this were tried, it could be an airport where the US would get whatever they wanted, such as Heathrow. In short, there are serious problems here.

    Maybe something like Moscow-Iceland-Cuba-Bolivia would work?

  112. “Maybe something like Moscow-Iceland-Cuba-Bolivia would work?” N_

    We could ask The Lonely Planet guide?

    “What d’you do if you’re a whistleblower, stuck in Moscow and the CIA-FBI-NSA-MI6-MI5-GCHQ-USAF-Old-Uncle-Tom-Cobbly-And-all are after you?”

    Or he could go to Vladivostok and then catch a slow boat to Ecuador? Mind you, the US Navy would intercept in the Pacific. Iceland is dodgy. They are vulnerable in every way and don’t have the firepower to take on the USAF, which would have no hestitation about breaching the airspace of a sovereign nation. In short, they cannot bomb Washington, DC. China and Russia are too big to take on and doing so would risk WW3; that is why he has remained in those two countries.

    It is entirely possible, then, that Our Man in Moscow may have to remain in Moscow, in the summer to catch the sun and in the winter, to be snowed on. Well, it’s better than being stuck forever in the tiny Ecuadorean Embassy in a hostile London, surrounded by police and spooks and one-eyed assassins. And it’s most certainly better than being stuck in solitary confinement forever in a US ‘Supermax’.

    America is the ‘global policeman’. Unfortunately, the policeman is “a one-eyed contract killer”.

  113. Just to clarify: there is a non-stop route between Moscow (SVO) and Havana (HAV).

    Maybe a ‘sealed cabin’ option might be playable? A ‘little piece of Bolivia’ (or Venezuela etc.) could be created on the plane?

    After all, if a little bit of Scotland could be created at Camp Zeist in the Netherlands, and a little piece of Russia was established on the train which took Lenin and his mates across Germany during WW1.

    I am told that the Bolivian presidential plane, which has nothing like this range, uses French pilots.

    As usual, both the press coverage and the chatter are nowhere near getting to grips with either the technical or the legal issues involved.

    The fact that the FSB (former internal part of the KGB) ‘holds the body’ gives them a very strong hand in this.

    Which may be related to the fact that Snowden has gone into silent mode.

    Russian state co-operation is necessary.

  114. You may be right about Russia and China.

    But it’s hard to see what the US airforce could do over Iceland. There is no longer a US base or overt military presence in that country. (This has changed since Bobby Fischer flew there, when he made sure he didn’t fly to Keflavik.) If the plane carrying Snowden did not have sufficient fuel, the US airforce could not force it out to land in another country. They could take over an airport – Iceland is practically defenceless – and force it to land there, and get the media to ‘file under Entebbe’ and eschew the word ‘invasion’. Or they could shoot it down and tell the world there’d been an unfortunate accident, or blame the Russians, or whatever.

    A lot of Russian state co-operation would be necessary to any longer-haul option. I think perhaps a fair amount would be necessary even to an Icelandic option.

    Isn’t the Pacific a US lake? :-)

  115. “Maybe a ‘sealed cabin’ option might be playable? A ‘little piece of Bolivia’ (or Venezuela etc.) could be created on the plane?” N_

    First, you’d need some pan-pipes…

  116. “I see Robert Newton as Bill Sykes, in the 1948 film version of ‘Oliver Twist'”

    Hah!

  117. Edward Snowden finds an unlikely admirer in former Stasi agent:

    Memories of the Gestapo and Stasi inform the debate on surveillance in Germany

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/edward-snowden-finds-an-unlikely-admirer-in-former-stasi-agent-1.1453161

  118. @Suhayl – sorry, the pan-pipes reference went over my head! :-) You think the ‘sealed cabin’ idea is too fantastical? I’m guessing Russia don’t want to be seen to help too much. Great scope for creativity remains, in a context where even the ‘international status’ of international transit zones at airports is unclear – and some would say even fantastic, arguing that Snowden is in the Russian jurisdiction even if he hasn’t gone through immigration. (But then too many questions might get asked about the ease of transit for certain goods, not just at Sheremetevo, but at several major international airports around the world.)

    I’m still curious as to when Russia set up a consulate at its own airport. Back in the day, Sheremetevo used to under one Boris Berezovsky and pals.

    Even if money changes hands so that the Aeroflot flight skirts US airspace on its way to Havana, the US airforce could still mob it above the Atlantic somewhere, and force it to land in the US.

    That said, if Russia’s navy could chase the MV Arctic Sea all the way to Cape Verde, her airforce could provide an escort to Havana, although they probably wouldn’t want to, and we’re not at that stage yet.

  119. “For now, the wave of protest by Germans at alleged NSA surveillance of their emails and phone calls appears to be contained online. This modern form of internet dissent is one for which Germans have adopted the anglicism ‘shitstorm’ – this week given a place of honour in the German language by entering the latest edition of the Duden dictionary.”

    Haha! brilliant. [Or Scheißesturm I suppose, if you’re fanatical about the purity of languages.]

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/edward-snowden-finds-an-unlikely-admirer-in-former-stasi-agent-1.1453161

  120. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    7 Jul, 2013 - 4:20 pm

    Don’t you mean ‘stoirm cac’, Dreoilin..

  121. I do Ben, I do …

    Never heard it though. In Connemara and Gweedore they probably say shitstorm too. ;)

  122. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    7 Jul, 2013 - 5:10 pm

    N_;

    In 2005 Iceland was much (as most were) better economically. Now they are floundering, and this is part of the reluctance for full support. Also they need to meet UN protocols, (see my earlier comment) in order to proceed and the UN Sec Gen has already indicated he thinks Snowden violated the law. Venezuela seems to be the only option.

  123. @Ben

    Agreed about the significance of Iceland’s economic position.

    But the UN protocols to which you refer do not bear on Snowden’s case. They are only about Iceland’s quota of UNHCR-nominated refugees. (“Quota” being a good Icelandic economic concept! [wink!]). They don’t stop Iceland from granting asylum or citizenship to whomever they want to.

    Nor is the UN Sec Gen’s opinion on Snowden of any legal importance. The UN has no jurisdiction enabling it to stop a country granting asylum or citizenship; or for that matter, any jurisdiction to decide that someone has broken US law.

    Even if for the sake of argument it were accepted that Snowden broke the law in the US, this would not prevent another country from granting asylum. Usually extradition laws contain the provision has to be an offence of at least a certain magnitude in the country which is being asked to extradite. A woman who has driven a car in Saudi Arabia in violation of Saudi law will not be extradited for the offence by an English court.

    Moreover, there is usually provision for political offences to be exempted.

    In the specific case of Iceland, as I understand it, the relevant treaty is between the US and Denmark, and as yet, no US authority has alleged that Snowden has committed any of the extraditable offences (murder, manslaughter, arson, robbery, forgert, counterfeiting, embezzlement, fraud, perjury, rape, abduction, piracy and certain other maritime crimes, slaving, procuring abortion).

  124. Flaming June

    8 Jul, 2013 - 7:29 am

    What bilge from this posh boy*.

    eg ‘Why do we find Snowden and Assange such fascinating figures? They are postmodern outlaws, frustrated nomads who have given up the comforts of an ordinarily rooted life. They are compelling because their predicament is both horrifying and seductive.’

    In depth: Julian Assange and Edward Snowden – enemies of the state take flight
    By seeking refuge in limbo while fleeing the most powerful nation on Earth, they exemplify the romance of the contemporary fugitive

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/in-depth-julian-assange-and-edward-snowden–enemies-of-the-state-take-flight-8692598.html

    * son of Sir Christopher Bland ex chairman BBC etc, See Early Life and Education – Winchester and Cambridge. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archie_Bland

  125. “The pilots of a passenger jet which crashed in the United States tried to abort their landing as stall warnings filled the cockpit moments before impact, according to safety officials.

    “Two people died and 182 were injured when the Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashed late on Saturday at the San Francisco International Airport. The plane was carrying 307 people.

    “Asiana said on Monday that the pilot was “in training” and that it was his first flight into the city at the controls of a 777.”

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/americas/2013/07/201376191550136917.html

  126. Flaming June (7.29am), did you see my post about censorship of the readers’ comments under that article?

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/09/why-i-am-convinced-that-anna-ardin-is-a-liar/comment-page-8/#comment-416988

    and passim.

    I’m trying to dig a bit to find out what was behind it all.

  127. Rastafari - Sweden

    13 Jul, 2013 - 10:07 am

    Excellent article by swedish based American journalist Al Burke. Pity that google translate does not do the article justice.

    Sweden´s hounding of Assange by Al Burke:
    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdebatt.svt.se%2F2013%2F07%2F12%2Fassange-jobbar-vidare-trots-hetsjakten%2F

  128. Weightloss, it is an immense, dare I say, an obese, pleasure! Do partake of this gustatory slice of site again, won’t you, there’s a good spammer? And don’t forget, spam is good for the figure!

Powered By Wordpress | Designed By Ridgey | Produced by Tim Ireland | Hosted by Expathos