Navalny, Ward, Assange, Snowden and the Attack on Free Speech

by craig on July 25, 2013 4:44 pm in Uncategorized

Russia does not have a functioning criminal justice system at all, in the sense of a trial mechanism aimed at determining innocence or guilt.  Exactly as in Uzbekistan, the conviction rate in criminal trials is over 99%.  If the prosecutors, who are inextricably an arm of the executive government, want to send you to jail, there is absolutely no judicial system to protect you.  The judges are purely there for show.

When critics of Putin like Alexei Navalny are convicted, therefore, we have absolutely no reassurance that the motivation behind the prosecution or the assessment of guilt was genuine.  Which is not to say that Navalny is innocent; I am in no position to judge. People are complex.   I sacrificed my own pretty decent career to the cause of human rights, but in my personal and family life I was by no means the most moral of individuals.  I see no reason for it to be impossible that all of Navalny’s excellent political work did not co-exist with a fatal weakness.  But his criticisms of Putin made him a marked man, who the state was out to get, and the most probable explanation – especially as prosecutors had looked at the allegations before and decided not to proceed – is that he is suffering for his criticisms of the President rather than a genuine offence.

It fascinates me that the Western media view the previous decision by the prosecutors not to proceed as evidence the case is politically motivated against Navalny; but fail to draw the same conclusion from precisely the same circumstance in the Assange case.

David Ward MP has not been sent to jail.  He has however had the Lib Dem whip removed, which under Clegg’s leadership perhaps he ought to consider an honour.  It is rather a commonplace sentiment that it is a terribly sad thing, that their community having suffered dreadfully in the Holocaust, the European Jews involved in founding the state of Israel went on themselves to inflict terrible pain and devastation on the Palestinians in the Nakba.   Both the Holocaust and the Nakba were horrific events of human suffering.  For this not startling observation, David Ward is removed from the Liberal Democrats.  He also stated that, with its ever increasing number of racially specific laws, its walls and racially restricted roads, Israel is becoming an apartheid state.  That is so commonplace even Sky News’ security correspondent Sam Kiley said it a few months ago, without repercussion.  In Russia you cannot say Putin is corrupt; in the UK you cannot say Israeli state policy is malign.  Neither national state can claim to uphold freedom of speech.  Meanwhile, of course, David Cameron announces plans to place filters on the internet access of all UK households.

In the United States, the House of Representatives failed by just 12 votes to make illegal the mass snooping by the NSA which was not widely publicised until Edward Snowden’s revelations.  What Snowden said was so important that almost half the country’s legislators wished to act on his information.  Yet the executive wish to pursue him and remove all his freedom for the rest of his life, as they are doing to Bradley Manning for Manning’s exposure of war crimes and extreme duplicity.

Around this complex of issues and the persons of Manning, Navalny, Snowden and Assange there is a kind of new ideological competition between the governments of Russia, the US and UK as to which is truly promoting the values of human freedom.  The answer is none of them are.  All these states are, largely in reaction to the liberating possibilities of the internet, promoting a concerted attack on freedom of speech and liberty of thought.

States are the enemy.  We are the people.

 

 

 

 

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670 Comments

  1. Scarlet Pimpers

    25 Jul, 2013 - 4:59 pm

    “If the prosecutors, who are inextricably an arm of the executive government, want to send you to jail, there is absolutely no judicial system to protect you.”

    by your definition above the USA does not have a functioning criminal justice system at all either.

    Manning will go down no doubt about it. Also, when they catch Edward Snowden (eventually), he too will go down.

    America is creating one of the biggest human rights exploitations in the history of the world. Deplorable…

  2. As far as Snowden is concerned, and Assange to some extent, I’m amazed at the people who judge them according to the places they seek asylum. Russia = Bad, so anything worthwhile about Snowden is automatically negated. He’s a traitor, end of story (besides, if you’ve got nothing to hide, etc. etc.). Much the same with Assange – since Ecuador does not have a glowing record on press freedom, Assange must be a hypocrite of the first order, should be ignored, and so on.

    This sort of knee-jerk dismissal of whistleblowers/ publishers has taken place across the political divide – many progressives give them the thumbs down. This, despite the fact that Assange/ Snowden had little choice about where to go – there are few countries with the ability to resist/ ignore US threats and disfavour, but also would not just willingly do whatever the US asks as a matter of policy (such as the UK).

    Recall that US Secretary of State John Kerry recently threatened to ground any Venezuela’s aircraft in US or any other NATO country’s airspace, if Snowden landed up there.

  3. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    25 Jul, 2013 - 5:08 pm

    The twelve votes that were missing (not voting) was no coincidence, craig. Strange alliances unless you consider the NSA has dirt on everyone including the House of Representatives.

    “99% conviction rate” Only about 600 jury trials (12 member) out of one million trials. Ostensibly, a jury trial is available if the defendant wishes. how could anyone NOT want a jury?

    It’s not that bad in the US as of yet. I recently served on a criminal trial and it was a clear case of prosecutorial abuse and police bungling. I think the judge agreed with the jury, but thank the gods for the defendant. If the judge was corrupt, he wouldn’t have had a chance.

  4. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    25 Jul, 2013 - 5:17 pm

    “This sort of knee-jerk dismissal ”

    It’s been interesting seeing the lines in the sand, glenn. I think it may be simplistic analysis, but I have broken it down to two disparate groups.

    1) Authoritarian law-givers, who either make their living as an officer of the Court, or have friends in law enforcement, who believe the LAW is an immutable edifice merely needing to superficially reference Constitutional issues.

    2) Civil rights advocates who recognize the Law is just a temporary structure promulgated by the status quo.

    To me, it’s that simple.

  5. Michael Stephenson

    25 Jul, 2013 - 5:54 pm

    Glenn_uk,
    Is Ecuador’s record on press freedom really that bad? How would the US regime react to media that was as critical to the establishment as is tolerated by the Latin American states, and is funded by the US who are trying to bring about a coup.

    The US and the UK will not tolerate PressTV, how’s that for press freedom?

  6. Lots of issues in this post, Craig.

    Are we reaching a stage where there is too much information, too much disinformation, too many distractions, too many incidents of corruption, too many accusations of guilt, too many acquittals and too many relative truths that ordinary people give up trying to understand how it all works and  consequently seek relief by ensconcing themselves in little bubbles of false conciousness to simply get by?

    For every bad thing that people protest and demonstrate over, there are a hundred more bad things waiting for their attention. I sometimes wonder whether the powers that be are trying to overwhelm the common man with so many incidents of injustice that his will to resist collapses.

  7. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    25 Jul, 2013 - 6:19 pm

    Craig is establishing an equivalence between the US, the UK and Russia in the question of whether they are interested in promoting human freedom (his thought being that none of them is).

    It’s sad to see that this simple message – expressed in clear English – simply does not penetrate into the minds of (some) readers, who swerve away from Russia in order to give a supplementary kick to the US.

    Note the very first comment on this thread , from Scarlet Pampers. He says :

    ““If the prosecutors, who are inextricably an arm of the executive government, want to send you to jail, there is absolutely no judicial system to protect you.”

    by your definition above the USA does not have a functioning criminal justice system at all either.”.

    and overlooks entirely the point also made by Craig which is that in Russia the judge is there purely for show. This is not the case in the US, where, apart from having judges who are not there purely for show, there are also juries. THEREFORE what Craig correctly says about Russia (“there is absolutely no judicial system to protect you) is NOT valid for the US (and he does not say it is)and CONSEQUENTLY Scarlet Pampers’ statement that the “USA does not have a functioning criminal justice system at all either” is tosh.

    Some of your commenters really do you no favours, Craig (not that that’s your fault).

  8. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    25 Jul, 2013 - 6:19 pm

    Sorry, I meant Scarlet PIMPERS.

  9. This is both a free speech issue and a monarchy issue.

    “Insulting the French president no longer a criminal offence

    Change to law pushed through after conviction of man who held up a sign telling then-president Nicolas Sarkozy to get lost”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/25/insulting-french-president-criminal-offence

    Hmmm. The UK fares very unfavorably with this.

  10. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    25 Jul, 2013 - 6:31 pm

    @ Jemand

    “For every bad thing that people protest and demonstrate over, there are a hundred more bad things waiting for their attention. I sometimes wonder whether the powers that be are trying to overwhelm the common man with so many incidents of injustice that his will to resist collapses.”
    _______________

    I think that’s absolutely right (although one could discuss whether the overwhelming is deliberate policy by the powers that be or simply a case of much more information coming out into the open compared to the past).

    It’s a little like so-called compassion fatigue, isn’t it : the more cases of corruption and shady dealings that come out into the open, the more such behaviour inperceptibly becomes to be seen as the norm; the consequences are that public indignation subsides with each new revelation, which in turn emboldens more people to try it on (all the more so as offenders are usually rehabilitated after an interval which appears to be getting shorter and shorter (contrast the John Profumo and David Maws affairs).

  11. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    25 Jul, 2013 - 6:33 pm

    David Laws, of course! (too much beach volley today)

  12. Michael: Slight misunderstanding, those are not my arguments, but those from people who want a reason to bash Assange’s pitching in with Ecuador. For that matter, how’s Ecuador’s record on spying upon not only its own citizens, but everyone else in the world (compared with the US) ?

    *

    Ben: I’d not considered the divide that way before, but now you mention it – bartcop (who used to have a good site) is absurdly authoritarian, particularly on this issue, for someone who likes to call himself progressive. Given the name, perhaps he used to be in law enforcement. I only mention bartcop because it was a rather entertaining place for a long time. Now it’s gone increasingly mainstream and right wing, and so – apparently – are a substantial number of its subscribers.

    Greenwald has also come under the same attack. Contributors who have been on the right side of issues (IMHO, of course!) for years, on the likes of rawstory and so on, can’t find enough unpleasant things to say about him, or with which to mock him, now. Here’s a new interview with Greenwald on the consistently brilliant Majority Report (majority.fm) :

    Glenn Greenwald NSA revelations fallout, on the Majority Report

  13. I suppose it’s fair enough to say that Russia is currently operating a much less nuanced gangster system than the US, and that’s understandable given the naked power stage they’re at.

    This system was created for them of course by the US neocons, but still it’s what you’d expect at this stage of development.

    Over time you would expect them to develop soft power alternatives. Much easier to maintain. More stable etc.

    The worrying thing is that the US, even with so much soft power still available to it, is increasingly revealing its fangs and opting for the naked power approach, even at home.

  14. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    25 Jul, 2013 - 6:43 pm

    @ Herbie

    I’m not sure that the UK compares unfavorably : is not the difference that there is no specific law in the UK on insulting public officials and perhaps MPs, Ministers and the head of state – any alleged offences would in general be tried under various general common law offences such as “insulting behaviour”, “behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace”, etc – whereas in some continental countries there are specific offences such as “Beamtenbeleidigung” (Germany)?

    But I stand willing to be corrected (not my speciality).

  15. States are the enemy.

    Do you mean this in a can’t live with em can’t live without em kind of way or something more interesting?

  16. Habbabkuk, I think all judicial systems are functional and therefore serve a function. But was is the function? To quell public unrest? To protect and raise the high standards of humanity? To intimidate people into robotic compliance of state laws? All of the above, it seems to me.

    So many countries have politicised criminal justice systems that are perfunctory exercises in nominal justice but also, more usefully, extensions of state oppression for troublemakers. But that doesn’t let the US justice system off the hook for its own failures.

    The US criminal justice system is a career path for some politicians. Defence lawyers can’t expect many votes coming their way from their legal career in defending pedophiles, rapists and murderers. On the other hand, prosecutors can expect plenty of votes for putting away anyone, guilty or not. There are a few documentaries (by Errol Morris et al) that reveal the political exploitation of the system by (psychopathic) careerist, prosecutors.

    Having said that, I would much rather go to trial in Oz than the US, and the US than Russia, and Russia than China, and China than North Korea.

    But, wherever you are, “justice” is more likely when you have money and clout.

  17. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    25 Jul, 2013 - 6:57 pm

    “The worrying thing is that the US, even with so much soft power still available to it, is increasingly revealing its fangs and opting for the naked power approach, even at home.”

    Herbie; I think it’s easier for most to deal with the stealthy and covert diddling behind the curtain of foreign governments and cold-cocking that influence around the world, when the goodies intended to distract (expanding unemployment insurance to perpetuity) make the medicine go down. Any well-publicized efforts to expand democracy will be lauded in the Media, pushing the untoward stories into the back pages of local fishwrap. It’s an iron fist in a velvet glove and thereby makes criminal governments nearly universal. It’s just a matter of degree.

  18. Habby

    In UK there’s a specific offense under Section 5 of the Public Order Act that makes it an offence to use ‘insulting’ language, which of course has been overused by police in what are now quite notorious cases.

    But if you’re arguing more generally that the UK police, in implementation and using a battery of legislation, are more restrictive in this area than the French, then I’d agree.

  19. There are no juries in most Scottish trials. The Sheriff is god.

  20. Yes, Ben.

    I’ve long been an advocate of seeing ourselves as we’re asked to see others.

    This is why RT and Press TV etc are so useful.

    And yes, they too are more interesting for what they say about us than what they say about themselves. That’s kinda how it works.

  21. Habbabkuk @6.31p

    Yes, correct.

    I believe I see this also in police responses to criminality. If not well managed, crimes can become so overwhelming for the police that their apparent inability to cope is seen as an opportunity to exploit. For criminality, there is likely to be a tipping point at which management rapidly begins to fail.

    And the normalisation of experiences is an important psychological phenomenon. In many parts of the world, petty corruption is unremarkable and flourishes.

    Civilisation appears to be a very thin veneer that is easily scratched.

  22. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    25 Jul, 2013 - 7:15 pm

    glenn; Thx. I hadn’t sen that interview.

    I, too have been horrified at the Nationalism displayed by so-called progressive bloggers and other journos. They seem to be so focused on the cultural opportunity for a black POTUS that they fail to see it a sform of affirmative action due to their enabling behaviors. HE MUST NOT be criticized, and the surveillance issue brings an avalanche of excuses and fly-bys which he then picks up as permission to do what he does. I really think the Neocons did genius-level work at moving the political needle so far right, that the center-right can view themselves as Leftists.

  23. Unfortunately the case for Assange being the victim of a US conspiracy comes unstuck when you notice that the release of the American diplomatic cables didn’t start until the 28th Novemeber 2010; eight days after the arrest warrant was issued and nearly 3 months after the rape complaints were first made.

  24. Kempe says:

    “Unfortunately the case for Assange being the victim of a US conspiracy comes unstuck when you notice that the release of the American diplomatic cables didn’t start until the 28th Novemeber 2010; eight days after the arrest warrant was issued and nearly 3 months after the rape complaints were first made.”

    I do hope Arbed sees this.

    My thinking was that the dropping of the case against Assange, and more particularly its subsequent resurrection by another (more politically linked) prosecutor highlighted the conspiracy rather than weakened it.

    Is this incorrect, and if so why?

  25. Kempe: Are you really that lazy, or just deceptive (and rather poor at it)? Wikileaks revealed that Collateral Murder evidence of a war crime in April 2010. Even you should be able to work out that came well before the rape ALLEGATIONS were made.

    Collateral Murder interview, Amy Goodman, 18/April/2010

    Assange was also interviewed about it on Al Jazeera English on 19/4/2010 . Wikileaks stated in January 2010 that it had this evidence and would be showing it at a later date, such as in this tweet here:

    Wikileaks tweet concerning Collateral Murder

    Aren’t you concerned about your credibility, when you post easily proven falsehoods such as that one just above? CM did make a sound suggestion to you personally a few months back – now why don’t you just follow that advice like a good fellow?

  26. Craig:
    “In Russia you cannot say Putin is corrupt; in the UK you cannot say Israeli state policy is malign. ”

    That says a lot. Another to put it is, “Putin rules Russia, Just as Israel Rules the UK”.

  27. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    25 Jul, 2013 - 7:36 pm

    With all due respect for the Nationalists….Judy Collins…Patriot Game (might need your headphones)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1uGhxvSlqg

  28. My gut feeling is:

    Blair – Obama – Navalny

    i) Lawyer
    ii) Presentable
    iii) Fond of PR
    iv) Supports change – 3rd way – Hope and change – End corruption
    v) Described as ‘liberal’

    http://marknesop.wordpress.com/2011/05/20/a-dark-side-of-alexei-navalny/

    Apparently he went to Yale for ‘training’ as a ‘World Fellow’, receiving $32,000 stipend, and was allowed to take his family. His reported lack of fluency in English apparently caused no problems. Not bad for someone only 6% of Russians have heard of.

    The Yale World Fellow program is aimed at ‘creating a global network of emerging leaders and to broaden international understanding’. Such a global network would be very useful to the global empire.

  29. Flaming June

    25 Jul, 2013 - 7:58 pm

    Anger at BBC’s insistence all Jerusalem is Israeli

    July 25, 2013

    Press release

    Anger at BBC’s insistence that all of Jerusalem is Israeli city

    The BBC’s insistence on describing Jerusalem as an Israeli city, despite such a status not being recognised under international law, has been condemned by Palestine Solidarity Campaign (PSC).

    In a ruling delivered this week, the BBC Trust appears to have accepted Israel’s facts on the grounds, namely that Jerusalem is a united Israeli city.

    Writing to PSC, the Trust quotes the BBC’s Senior Editorial Strategy Advisor, Leanne Buckle, in her assessment of the BBC’s decision to describe Jerusalem as an Israeli city.

    The Trust writes: “The advisor [Buckle] acknowledged that Israel’s sovereignty over the whole of Jerusalem was not recognized under international law. However, she considered that Israel had de facto control over the entire city in a political, administrative and military sense. She also noted that Jerusalem was administered as a single entity by the Jerusalem municipal authority which made no distinction between East and West.”

    Based on this, the Trust has said it will not consider a complaint by PSC that BBC journalists are breaching the BBC’s Editorial Guidelines on Accuracy when they refer to Jerusalem as an Israeli city.

    Under international law, only West Jerusalem is considered to be under Israeli de facto control, not the whole of Jerusalem. East Jerusalem is described by the UN as Occupied Palestinian Territory that has been illegally occupied and annexed by Israel.

    /..
    http://www.palestinecampaign.org/bbcjerusualem/

    For BBC throughout, read ZBC.

  30. Flaming June

    25 Jul, 2013 - 8:27 pm

    For David Ward read Jenny Tonge, Paul Flynn, Sir Gerald Kaufman, Jeremy Corbyn, others whose names I have forgotten, who have all been demonized for speaking for Palestine.

    Sir Bob Russell LD Colchester is the latest case in point. He was asking Michael Gove a question about the history curriculum, wishing al Naqba to be included just as Gove intends to include the Holocaust.

    The next thing he is almost being called a ‘Holocaust denier’.

    http://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/10550341.Sir_Bob_criticised_for_Holocaust_comments/

    Some good comments among the 66 which is an unusual number for a provincial paper.

    He has also raised the question of the Bedouin cleansing many times I see.
    Written Answers — Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs: Israel (11 July 2013)
    Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many representations he has received in opposition to proposals by the government of Israel to forcibly remove 40,000 Bedouin from their historic lands.

    Oral Answers to Questions — Foreign and Commonwealth Office: Middle East Peace Process (18 June 2013)
    Bob Russell: Israel, by its policies, is a racist, apartheid state. Will the Foreign Secretary confirm that that all the products we are discussing are produced on land that is illegally occupied?

    http://www.theyworkforyou.com/search/?pid=10521&pop=1

  31. “Hezbollah: EU listing gives Israel licence to kill”

    http://euobserver.com/foreign/120971

  32. If there had not been a jury at the inquest into the death of Princess Diana and Jodi Fayad a verdict of “unlawful killing” would not have been brought in, which is probably why Tony Blair interrupted normal proceedings and Lord Hutton was called in to handle an Inquiry only three hours after Dr David Kelly’s body had been found and before a pathologist had seen the body. The British judiciary is so bent Julian Assange has had to seek refuge in the Ecuadorian Embassy.

    I posted this link a couple of days ago about the death of doughty journalist Helen Thomas. Well worth watching. Not every president is allowed to get away with everything unscathed.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbjaCsjAB3s&feature=em-uploademail

  33. Flaming June

    25 Jul, 2013 - 9:00 pm

    Journalists at Bradley Manning trial report hostile conditions for press
    Xeni Jardin at 10:05 am Thu, Jul 25, 2013

    Journalists and bloggers covering closing arguments in the military trial of Wikileaks source Bradley Manning are reporting a far more intense security climate at Ft. Meade today, as compared to the past two months of court proceedings.

    @carwinb, @kgosztola, @nathanLfuller, and @wikileakstruck have tweeted about armed guards standing directly behind them as they type into laptops in the designated press area, and extensive physical searches. I visited the trial two weeks ago, and while there were many restrictions I found surprising (no mobile devices allowed in the press room), it wasn’t this bad.

    Tweets from some of them are below; there are about 40-50 reporters present and not all are tweeting. Internet access is spotty today. Oh, wait; as I type this blog post, I’m now seeing updates that they’re being told they are not allowed to access Twitter. So there’s that.

    /..
    http://boingboing.net/2013/07/25/journalists-at-bradley-manning.html

  34. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    25 Jul, 2013 - 10:03 pm

    @ Herbie

    “In UK there’s a specific offense under Section 5 of the Public Order Act that makes it an offence to use ‘insulting’ language..”
    _____

    Yes, I know that. What I was wondering was is there a specific law dealing with insulting public officials, MPs, the Head of State, etc. I gather from your reply that there is not such a specific law and that there is only the general law you refer to, which would apply whether I insulted you or the Prime Minister (for example). Correct?
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~

    “But if you’re arguing more generally that the UK police, in implementation and using a battery of legislation, are more restrictive in this area than the French, then I’d agree.”
    ___________

    No, I wasn’t arguing that at all, and I don’t see how you could infer that from my post. I have no idea whether the French are more restrictive than the British in this area

  35. HOW DOES THE STATE AND THE PEOPLE DIFFER. AREN`T THE STATE SIMPLY PART OF THE PEOPLE.

    IT COULD BE JUST SAID THAT THE STATE IS A MESS BECAUSE MANKIND IS A MESS. “IN MY PERSONAL AND FAMILY LIFE I WAS BY NO MEANS THE MOST MORAL OF INDIVIDUALS.”

    WE ARE ALL AT SOME POINT PERHAPS NOT THE MOST MORAL OF INDIVIDUALS. SO WHO IS THERE IF NOT THE STATE FOR GUIDANCE.

    WHAT SEEM`S TO BE PARAMOUNT IS THE SPREAD OF CORRUPTION AND UNDERHANDID BEHAVIOUR. MORAL BEHAVIOUR!
    WE ALL KNOW WHERE THAT IS HEADED IF NOT PROPERLY ADDRESSED,. ANARCHY OR COMPLETE STATE CONTROL.

    AS A SIMPLETON, THE STATE AND PEOPLE ARE TO ENTRENCHED. TO “DEVIDE”.

    MAYBE WE NEED A MONARCHY TO LEAD US NOT INTO TEMPTATION AND SHOW US THE FRUITS OF OUR LABOUR.

    I DO AGREE THAT CAMERON SETTING UP INTERNET FILTERS FOR ALL HOUSEHOLDS, WILL PROTECT THE INDIVIDUAL: “OUR” LITTLE PRINCE`S AND PRINCESSES`OR AT LEAST IN WILL INHIBIT THE WANKERS!

  36. “The Pentagon’s war plan for China is called “AirSea Battle.” The plan describes itself as “interoperable air and naval forces that can execute networked, integrated attacks-in-depth to disrupt, destroy, and defeat enemy anti-access area denial capabilities.””

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2013/07/24/the-two-faux-democracies-threaten-life-on-earth-paul-craig-roberts/

  37. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    25 Jul, 2013 - 11:22 pm

    http://yalejournal.org/2013/06/12/who-authorized-preparations-for-war-with-china/

    “The United States is preparing for a war with China, a momentous decision that so far has failed to receive a thorough review from elected officials, namely the White House and Congress. This important change in the United States’ posture toward China has largely been driven by the Pentagon. There have been other occasions in which the Pentagon has framed key strategic decisions so as to elicit the preferred response from the Commander in Chief and elected representatives. A recent case in point was when the Pentagon led President Obama to order a high level surge in Afghanistan in 2009, against the advice of the Vice President and the U.S. ambassador to Afghanistan. The decision at hand stands out even more prominently because (a) the change in military posture may well lead to an arms race with China, which could culminate in a nuclear war; and (b) the economic condition of the United States requires a reduction in military spending, not a new arms race. The start of a new term, and with it the appointment of new secretaries of State and Defense, provide an opportunity to review the United States’ China strategy and the military’s role in it. This review is particularly important before the new preparations for war move from an operational concept to a militarization program that includes ordering high-cost weapons systems and forced restructuring. History shows that once these thresholds are crossed, it is exceedingly difficult to change course.”

    We sure have heeded Eisenhower’s warning about the Military/Industrial complex.

    A lack of oversight and poor accountability from Security Services, the outsourcing to contractors, and general MILSPEC waste hogs has led to this.

  38. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    25 Jul, 2013 - 11:23 pm

    Sorry someone. forgot to say thanks for the link. I thought it worthy of repetition.

  39. Kempe: “Unfortunately the case for Assange being the victim of a US conspiracy comes unstuck when you notice that the release of the American diplomatic cables didn’t start until the 28th Novemeber 2010; eight days after the arrest warrant was issued and nearly 3 months after the rape complaints were first made.”

    Memory tells me this is false. So I looked it up.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_diplomatic_cables_leak

    Started in Feb 2010. Sure, the release in The Guardian etc occurred in November, but the state department already knew who Assange was, and what documents he had. So the US conspiracy argument hasn’t come unstuck, really.

  40. @Jay

    Please don’t shout, I have a headache.

  41. it all reminds me of the shocking treatment dished out to animal rights activist Daniel McGowan, for exercising his First Amendment right of speech, and writing articles for Huffington Post

    On April 4, McGowan was rearrested and jailed. Center for Constitutional Rights lawyers represented him. They said it was because of an article he wrote.
    Their statement elaborated, saying:
    He was “released from the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn where he was taken into custody yesterday and is back at the halfway house where he has been residing since his release from prison in December.”
    “Yesterday, Daniel was given an ‘incident report’ indicating that his Huffington Post blog post, ‘Court Documents Prove I Was Sent to Communication Management Units (CMU) for My Political Speech,’ violated a BOP regulation prohibiting inmates from ‘publishing under a byline.’ ”
    “The BOP regulation in question was declared unconstitutional by a federal court in 2007, and eliminated by the BOP in 2010.”
    “After we brought this to the BOP’s attention, the incident report was expunged.”
    They called BOP retaliation against him “an outrage.”
    McGowan got CMU hard time for writing articles and letters about animal rights. His constitutional rights were violated.
    On April 4, he was jailed again briefly. He was released on condition he’d sacrifice his First Amendment rights. He was told no more articles.
    According to CCR, it’s a “made-up rule applied only to Daniel.” It’s a “further attempt to chill his freedom of speech.”

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/07/25/daniel-mcgowan-victimized-by-us-injustice/

  42. Despite habby’s protestations

    If the French have a specific law against insulting their President

    And the British have a general law against insulting anyone

    Who is more free to speak their mind. The French or the British?

    If the French go on to repeal the law against insulting their President

    Who is more free to speak their mind. The French or the British?

    There must be a Gillray somewhere that explains this much more succinctly.

  43. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    26 Jul, 2013 - 12:25 am

    Herbie; Check out the political cartoons of Conrad of the LA Times. The best ever.

  44. Ben Franklin at 11.22 pm

    It’s late and I’ve only scan-read the article you posted. My guess is this is sabre-rattling from the Pentagon, and the article states this has not got any approval from government. However it could get approval.

    What is worrying the US is that Russia, France and Germany have, if I understand correctly, withdrawn gold bullion formerly in US custody because of justified fears that the US economy is about to pop. The US national debt is growing faster than any amount of earned revenue or taxation can cover.

    http://www.usdebtclock.org/

    China, and other countries have stopped buying US debt (bonds) because they realise these are going to be worthless. The only thing the US can do, because most of its investment has gone into the military and wars to steal other countries mineral wealth, is to wage war on countries with growing economies, like Germany did on the strength of its mighty Krupps’ factories. This war, if it comes about, would probably wipe out mankind, and life on earth as we know it. Frightening, eh?

  45. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    26 Jul, 2013 - 12:56 am

    “What is worrying the US is that Russia, France and Germany have, if I understand correctly, withdrawn gold bullion formerly in US custody because of justified fears that the US economy is about to pop. The US national debt is growing faster than any amount of earned revenue or taxation can cover.”

    John; You are correctamundo. BRICS is the real threat to USG. The Petrodollar has reigned for some 40 years. BRICS seeks to establish some fiscal credibility by returning to a gold standard.

    This is contra-intuitive to Western interests, mostly the US. The ‘shadow’ economy seeking the continued auspices of the EU and the remainder of the World is critical to keeping the perception that Petrodollars must continue it’s reign of dominance. The dumbing down of silver and gold to record lows since 2008 is part of the plan to keep equity in the markets of choice. But from my perspective gold is not the place to put your confidence because it’s value makes it inefficient for trading. Junk silver is your hedge against future inflationary purchasing power. Lower denominations are easier to carry and trade.
    w

  46. “We sure have heeded Eisenhower’s warning about the Military/Industrial complex.”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gahL5j4ack

    It should be noted that all during Reagan’s presidency he took the orders of Thatcher, except on one occasion, the Grenada invasion in 1983. She told him not to invade, so what had the power that overruled Thatcher…The US “Military/Industrial complex”.

  47. “The Too Big to Fail Insurers – the next bail outs, another nail in Democracy’s coffin.”

    http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2013/07/the-too-big-to-fail-insurers-the-next-bail-outs-another-nail-in-democracys-coffin/

  48. “The Madman Strategy”

    http://japanfocus.org/events/view/180

  49. @John Goss: I’ve probably misunderstood your last couple of posts on the subject… you’re not seriously suggesting that Al “The Fugger” Fayad has been right all along, and Lady Di was assassinated by the UK secret services, are you?

    *
    As far as gold is concerned, it appears you are right – but it could be even worse than you’ve set out here. Germany wants possession of its physical gold, as opposed to “paper gold”. The latter is a piece of paper – gold certificates – indicating your entitlement to the stated amount of gold held in that institution’s vault. The trouble is, there’s a high suspicion that these same certificates have been issued multiple times on the same physical resource.

    That is why Germany has become so suspicious recently about their physical gold held by America, and they’d like to get it back. These suspicions are not in any way alleviated by the considerable reluctance the US to hand it over.

    We might have a situation where the promise to exchange for the bearer the stated weight of gold for their certificate, is not much better than our own certificates – to redeem a UK banknote for the equivalent pounds of silver sterling. My advice is that you should take possession of your actual metal, and put it in your personal bank’s safety deposit box, before the whole thing kicks off.

  50. Me? I just play Strats.

    But i realise,through reading history,that at the end of every empire the veil of the soft state is snatched away and the hard/deep state stands naked,barking and omnivorous in their insane arc.

    Torture,by incompetents-who ought really know better-barely registers to the guy that they want to shut up-or else.

    I’m just a wallflower now-Strats notwithstanding-Eliza.

    My torture was cathartic,to them,over 15 years of complete amateur idiocy that would shame prep school kids.

    I just play Strats,same as it ever was,Jonathan.

    Mostly people tell me i’m really quite adept at that.

    But i already knew that,Stella.

  51. Flaming June

    26 Jul, 2013 - 4:02 am

    Someone and Ben If you put a search for China on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_of_the_United_States

    some mind boggling numbers jump out.

    Also worth a mention is the near doubling since 2007 of the US gross debt as percentage of GDP. Was it all those wars that dunnit plus the crash?

    Entity United States

    2007 62%

    2010 92%

    2011 102%

  52. Flaming June

    26 Jul, 2013 - 5:11 am

    Detroit

    ‘Kicking off a series of speeches about the economy, President Obama told a crowd in Illinois on Wednesday that reversing growing inequality and rejuvenating the middle class “has to be Washington’s highest priority.” During his remarks, Obama failed to mention the bankruptcy filing by Detroit, where thousands of public workers are now fighting to protect their pensions and medical benefits as the city threatens massive cuts to overcome an estimated $18 billion in debt. Detroit’s bankruptcy “is an example of a failed economic system,” says economist Richard Wolff, professor emeritus of economics at University of Massachusetts. “There are so many other cities in Detroit’s situation, that if the courts decide that it is legal to take away the pension that has been promised to and paid for by these workers, you have [legalized] theft. It is class war, redistributing income from the bottom to the top.”‘
    http://www.democracynow.org/2013/7/25/richard_wolff_detroit_a_spectacular_failure

    I read elsewhere that the Detroit Red Wings have a new $400m stadium built with taxpayer support.

    http://dissidentvoice.org/2013/07/detroit-red-wings-get-new-400-million-taxpayer-financed-stadium-while-the-city-goes-bankrupt/

  53. Maybe the US wants their sovereign debt to become so huge that the world cannot afford to allow the US economy to fail. Provided that they service their existing debts (by sales of high value weapon systems?) they can maintain a perpetual debt that protects it from hostile action – economic or military. Can China afford to go to war with their biggest customer and debtor?

    For those who advocate for currencies to be tied to physical quantities of precious metals, I would ask you to consider the massive environmental damage that would result from exploration and extraction of those metals as their supposed value skyrockets and the relative cost of production plummets. Rain forests and coral reefs would be ripped up in the search for an overvalued scarce resource that has limited intrinsic or natural value. And, in the end, its nominal value is based on trust just like paper currency.

    It is also economic anathema that you can become increasingly wealthy just by sitting on a pile of gold. We should all be so lucky.

  54. The monetary system is the controling state.

    As we all are in debted to this system the state controls us.

    Assets are mostly influence and effluence of this system, ultimately what comes out the ground defines everything.

    How we are organised is state control.

    The real gold is what we say and do, is that down to the individual?

  55. Its God Blight America time now, the sins of Fallujah are coming home to roost in Detroit,etc. And the devils have started yet another Bush/Condi/Mubarak like Sharm el Sheikh “road map” charade, to fool the Arabs (yet again) into supporting another destruction of an Arab country, or even a war on Iran. Its only the fear of the Russian Yakhont that has kept the Generals at bay, if the aircraft carriers move AWAY from Syria or the PG, war is coming then.

  56. Practically speaking its got to be Aquaponics, it would also help to be ready to carry double door fridges/large flat screens on shopping trolleys,as the preppers started practising outside a Wal-Mart in the USA!

  57. There are no juries in most Scottish trials. The Sheriff is god

    On the other hand, there are juries in most Scottish trials dealing with severe offences (assault to severe injury or worse) and the dual system of summary and solemn procedures operating in Sheriff Courts seems to operate at least as well as the English system. The Sheriff is admittedly God – it’s at his discretion whether to opt for summary or solemn – , and there have been one or two somewhat bent ones, true.

    In any case, the Sheriff’s or other presiding nebbie’s function, with or without a jury, is to determine whether or not the law has been broken. If the law is reprehensible, that isn’t his fault.

    In plain, if the law is crap, don’t blame the workmen. Blame the people you have the illusion of having elected. Which is what I take Craig to be saying in his last sentence.

    I think the illusion of democracy is central to what Craig is saying. The Russians are probably under fewer illusions than we are, in that regard. But I don’t think, fundamentally, that there is much difference from our situation except in the degree of coercion our governors are prepared to use in order to entrench their power, wealth and influence. That’s changing all the time. For the worse, as Craig says.

  58. Obviously, our democracy is under threat when an elected MP can be sanctioned by his former party at the behest and on the say-so of a small and unaccountable grouping of British citizens. For breaking no law, but merely for uttering an opinion.

    Something’s badly wrong there.

  59. Flaming June

    26 Jul, 2013 - 9:26 am

    Just in case you missed it, there is a reprise tonight on Sky News – ‘The Son and Heir’!

    And if you are short of something to do in London and have a spare £19!! (adult) or £50 (family) you can see the Queen’s dresses. Many diamonds too.

    ‘Queen’s coronation takes centre stage in Buckingham Palace’s summer show
    Monarch’s coronation robe will be laid out for first time since June 1953, along with personal objects including her coronation service
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk-news/2013/jul/26/queen-coronation-buckingham-palace-exhibition

  60. Flaming June

    26 Jul, 2013 - 9:27 am

    Sorry that s/be on previous thread.

  61. Jay
    25 Jul, 2013 – 10:46 pm
    “HOW DOES THE STATE AND THE PEOPLE DIFFER. AREN`T THE STATE SIMPLY PART OF THE PEOPLE.”

    Quite right Jay. Who has created the State, if not us, the people? You and I, we….all of us have created the State/Society.

    IT COULD BE JUST SAID THAT THE STATE IS A MESS BECAUSE MANKIND IS A MESS. “IN MY PERSONAL AND FAMILY LIFE I WAS BY NO MEANS THE MOST MORAL OF INDIVIDUALS.”

    And yes, as inside, so outside. It is our messy consciousness that is the consciousness of mankind. But, when it comes to change, we blame it all on outside factors. We think by playing with the structure somehow we are going to bring about radical change. We don’t want to look at ourselves, our own fragmentation and take any true responsibility towards that. Change can only come one individual at a time — and that must reflect onto ‘Society’ or the State. We live in darkness ourselves but expect the State to be a miraculous shining light of beacon.

    Btw, I like your comment about our own children being little Princes and Princesses and they should be raised as such. But we raise them with the best of will out of our own messy consciousness. So, its CATCH-22. That is where we are and that is what we are perpetuating. It is the same all over the world, be it the US, UK or Russia or the beautiful paradise islands of the Maldives. Its one Earth and its anything but whole or holy.

  62. An excellent and timely post, Craig, not least because some of your followers think the sun shines out of Putin’s backside merely for his thwarting of some of the West’s evil schemes. One must, of course, be careful not to ‘go over to the other side’ – to start hailing Russia, Syria, Iran as paragons of civilized virtue and decency, as some here are wont to do. Russia’s sheltering of Snowden is a geopolitical manoeuvre and has nothing to do with any principled belief in transparency or the rights of whistle-blowers, as the Navalny case neatly illustrates, if, indeed, it needed illustrating at all.

    On another note, I’m glad Mary, Komodo et al are showing signs of having moved on from the royal baby hype. I understand that at moments of great national importance such as the delivery of Prince George, some commentators can get a little carried away amid the hysteria and find themselves thinking of little else . I would therefore suggest the opening of a special thread, similar to the 9/11 ‘dungeon’ and dedicated solely to discussion of the young Prince, so that the debate about names, dress, styles and such like can be continued for as long as the Royal baby watchers see fit.

  63. Times have changed since 1920 when a Liberal party MP could tell it how it is.

    http://www.israelect.com/reference/WillieMartin/ACoupleofQuotes%20%5BA%5D.htm

    That article leaves no doubts about the motive behind our politician’s support for Zionism.

  64. Sofia Kibo Noh

    26 Jul, 2013 - 9:58 am

    The posts of 9 32 and 9 34 put me in mind of this old Christy Moore song.

    I know it’s a bit early in the day for Happy Hour so I’ll just post the lyrics. For anyone who hasn’t heard this man sing all I can say is he, like Michael D Higgins (122 times better value than UK head of state), is another Irish national treasure.

    Natives

    For all of our languages, we can’t communicate
    For all of our native tongues, we’re all natives here
    Sons of their fathers dream the same dream
    The sound of forbidden words becomes a scream
    Voices in anger, victims of history
    Plundered and set aside, grown fat on swallowed pride

    With promises of paradise and gifts of beads and knives
    Missionaries and pioneers are soldiers in disguise
    Saviours and conquerors they make us wait
    The fishers of men they wave their truth like bait
    With the touch of a stranger’s hand innocence turns to shame
    The spirit that dwelt within now sleeps out in the rain

    For all of our languages, we can’t communicate
    For all of our native tongues, we’re all natives here
    The scars of the past are slow to disappear
    The cries of the dead are always in our ears
    Only the very safe can talk about wrong and right
    Of those who are forced to choose, some will choose to fight
    For all of our languages, we can’t communicate

  65. Glenn_uk at 2.33 a.m. I posted the link to a film two days ago called “Unlawful Killing” by Keith Allen. Fortunately I got to see it (and I hope you did too) before it was brought down allegedly for ‘copyright infringement’. The BBC reported that Diana had been hounded to death by the paparazzi and has stuck by that story. After days and days of deliberation the jury brought in a verdict which was atually ‘unlawful killing’ or put another way ‘murder’. You can watch this film practically anywhere except in the UK. And basically that appears to be the reason. A verdict of ‘Murder’ should mean the police are looking for a murderer. But they’re not.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/may/07/unlawful-killing-film-you-wont-see

    My satirical fairy story, ‘Nanna Babba and the common girl’ was influenced by this film and Barbara Cartland’s articles on Royal Jelly in ‘Here’s Health’ magazine.

  66. On another note, I’m glad Mary, Komodo et al are showing signs of having moved on from the royal baby hype.

    Just staying on topic as recommended by you and other excrescences. Snarked if I do, snarked if I don’t.

    Still, happy to see I didn’t initiate it on this thread.

    @ Fred: Good catch. Worth remembering. And on-topic, too. Think the excrescences will be vocal today?

  67. Ben Franklin at 12.36 ‘Lower denominations are easier to carry and trade.’ I agree. Unfortunately, assuming there is no war, nobody would know what, or which, currency to trust, and people are advised to get themselves a trade so they can trade. George Dalton and several other ancestors on my mother’s side were silversmiths in Norfolk Street, Sheffield, and it might not be a bad trade to get back into. When the crash comes it will be merciless.

  68. “The Zionists are losing the battle – how long can the apartheid State of Israel last?” [David Ward MP]

    That’s it. A tweet.

    Was it the mention of apartheid which caused the offence?

    The Association for Civil Rights in Israel concluded in 2008 that a segregated road network in the West Bank, expansion of Jewish settlements, restriction of the growth of Palestinian towns and discriminatory granting of services, budgets and access to natural resources are “a blatant violation of the principle of equality and in many ways reminiscent of the Apartheid regime in South Africa”.[44]

    Israel has also been accused of apartheid by Michael Ben-Yair, Israel’s attorney-general from 1993 to 1996 [45] and Shulamit Aloni, who served as Minister for Education under Yitzhak Rabin.[46]

    (and much more to think about) here -
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Israeli_government

    Maybe it was mention of the Zionists in the same sentence?

    Sigmund Freud on being requested to condemn the Arab riots of 1929:

    Letter to the Keren Hajessod (Dr. Chaim Koffler)

    Vienna: 26 February 1930

    Dear Sir,

    I cannot do as you wish. I am unable to overcome my aversion to burdening the public with my name, and even the present critical time does not seem to me to warrant it. Whoever wants to influence the masses must give them something rousing and inflammatory and my sober judgement of Zionism does not permit this. I certainly sympathise with its goals, am proud of our University in Jerusalem and am delighted with our settlement’s prosperity. But, on the other hand, I do not think that Palestine could ever become a Jewish state, nor that the Christian and Islamic worlds would ever be prepared to have their holy places under Jewish care. It would have seemed more sensible to me to establish a Jewish homeland on a less historically-burdened land. But I know that such a rational viewpoint would never have gained the enthusiasm of the masses and the financial support of the wealthy. I concede with sorrow that the baseless fanaticism of our people is in part to be blamed for the awakening of Arab distrust. I can raise no sympathy at all for the misdirected piety which transforms a piece of a Herodian wall into a national relic, thereby offending the feelings of the natives.

    Now judge for yourself whether I, with such a critical point of view, am the right person to come forward as the solace of a people deluded by unjustified hope.

    Your obedient servant,

    Freud.

    Criticism was legitimate then. Or maybe only Jews are allowed to criticise Israel? Ah, that’s it. Self-haters though they may be, G-d gave them the right.

  69. ex·cres·cence

    Noun

    1.A distinct outgrowth on a human or animal body or on a plant, esp. one that is the result of disease or abnormality.
    2.An unattractive or superfluous addition or feature.

    V. good

    ~~

    Anon took no notice of my following post saying that I was on the wrong thread. My point in sending the post about the exhibition at Buckingham Palace is that
    a)we paid for these garments and baubles in the first place with buckets full of our taxes and
    b)a charge of £19 is being made to see them

    btw I said nothing about the royal baby. My motto is ‘No child shall be harmed’ which holds no meaning for our warmongering pocket politicians.

  70. Flaming June at 4.02 a.m. (what were you doing up at that time?) the 2011 figures for total national debt stood at 14,200 billion dollars. It is now 16,877 billion and rising but that is just in the US (what it owes itself). The total debt, including that owned by other countries is more than three times that. 47% of the total debt is has been bought by foreign countries (China and Japan being the main holders of government bonds and securities). Why would they want to do that? I’m scratching my heat. As to GDP this is the most misleading of all and I would be tempted to leave it out of the equation. It amounts to all the money in the system (plus exports minus imports) but as governments can print money at will and the national debt is not subtracted from GDP an economy can look healthy even when it is on its knees. Dady Chery, in this article explains GDP, and what is bad for it, and who the vultures are that thrive on it, relating the whole lot to her native Haiti.

    http://newsjunkiepost.com/2013/02/06/global-gdp-growth-an-imf-and-world-bank-racket/

  71. Re. David Ward MP, a little recent history:

    http://www.totallyjewish.com/news/national/c-19442/no-more-second-chances-pressure-mounts-on-lib-dems-to-suspend-mp-ward/

    Tonge all over again. Some of the rank and file are a little disturbed by this, though -

    http://www.libdemvoice.org/has-it-all-gone-jenny-tonge-for-david-ward-or-is-that-a-bandwagon-i-see-before-me-32858.html

    Good man.

    LibDem Friends of Israel were the instrument of choice for ensuring that no LibDem ever again is permitted to use the words “Israel” and “atrocity” on the same page. Without a single democratic vote being taken by the rest of the party.

    As their leader, Gavin Stollar, who has failed to get elected since 2001 as an MP, says, LDFoI is not well provided with funds, and is rather dependent on the benevolence of the Israeli government. Which might raise a question or two in itself.

    http://www.thejc.com/comment-and-debate/analysis/69079/liberal-democrats-celebrate-successful-israel-mission

    Our delegates, some of whom had previously visited Gaza with Christian Aid and CAABU, all came back grateful to LDFI for giving them the “balance” they needed. They all expressed appreciation that the issues many thought were black and white were actually more like shades of grey, and sometimes even impossible to interpret.

    Oh yes. That’s a fact.

    The trip confirmed that the power of seeing things firsthand cannot be underestimated.

    As well as the Dimona nuclear facility, they don’t seem to have visited Gaza. Recommended for next time, Stollar.

  72. Though some of the comments appear to have digressed they do fit the last statement.

    “States are the enemy. We are the people.”

    We might not all have been in positions to blow whistles, but we can support the whistle-blowers in our own ways. On Saturday there are hopefully demonstrations all over the country in support of Bradley Manning, whose verdict (probably life imprisonment) is due to be announced around then. Only when the thieves and banksters’ system collapses can people take control of their own resources.

    “States are the enemy. We are the people.”

  73. More Stollar after Clegg’s decision to appoint LDFoI his mentor:

    “Gavin Stollar, LDFI chairman, said that if the group “doubted Mr Ward’s sincerity in engaging in this process, or his willingness to take on board what’s coming, then there’s no question about our intention to feed that back.

    “LDFI has essentially been appointed as probation officers for David Ward,” said Mr Stollar. “If we are not convinced that he is salvageable then we’ll be in the position to report back to the leader and the chief whip and express our views.

    “Rather than making him a martyr, LDFI welcomes the opportunity to educate one of our MPs.

    I didn’t actually believe this assertion, that LDFoI, or any other Fo(any other country)
    could be authorised by anyone to ‘correct’ an elected MP’s opinions. But there it is, in the Jewish Chronicle, not Stormfront or al-Ahram…

  74. That should have read: ..LDFoI Ward’s mentor

  75. And this wonderful piece from LibDem Friends of PALESTINE’s website:

    http://www.ldfp.eu/2013/07/01/in-the-news-theres-nothing-liberal-about-offending-jews/

    There’s other material there which supports my suspicion that being a friend of Palestine is not intended to imply support for Palestinians. Or is this just LibDems being the political equivalent of semolina again?

  76. Some people just will not be silenced however…

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2378259/Anger-Israel-fans-pig-shaped-balloon-Star-David-released-Roger-Waters-concert-Belgium.html

    They laughed at the Mohammed cartoons. Why aren’t they laughing now?

    (pmsl)

  77. Uzbek in the UK

    26 Jul, 2013 - 12:29 pm

    Mr Murray,

    You might know that states by their nature are repressive. Their main duty is to provide order (and security) in anarchic system. The problem with freedoms in modern days western societies is that with the introduction of War on Terror discourse western states were allowed to manipulate freedoms (and reduce them to some extend) in order to provide order (and security). Russia aside but in western societies with highly develop civic institutions this reduction of freedom is to great extend fault of western societies themselves. US citizens allow their government to keep people in prison indefinitely without charge and chance of fair trial, British citizens allow their government to participate in rendition and hand over their compatriots to foreign security services.

    There is no one else to blame in this but yourselves. Not you personally of course, as the man who put his career and health on the line to defend these freedoms you are in unfortunately minority camp.

  78. Ottawa keeps silent over Israel’s arrest and abuse of Canadian activist

    The Canadian government has remained silent over the abusive treatment of a Canadian human rights activist in the Occupied Palestinian Territories by Israeli forces amid criticism that Canada’s Prime Minister Stephen Harper prioritizes Israel’s interests over those of its own citizens,

    Interesting to find the corporate media somehow is blind to the abuse of the human rights under their nose, but always on the look out to show boat about the slightest infractions of the Jonny foreigner, that is the right sort of forefinger and not the kosher kind of course.

  79. They laughed at the Mohammed cartoons. Why aren’t they laughing now?

    That is classed as running into a theatre and shouting zionist pigs Fire! (read this aloud and with a guttural hint of Yiddish German.

    pmsl indeed!

  80. The US Dept of Justice is also said to have a conviction rate above 98%. If the Feds want to throw you in jail, they will. Appearances may be more orderly than in, say, Uzbekistan, but is justice being served? The US still likes to lecture others about “human rights” though.

    , “Between 2000 and 2005, 99 percent of the 435,000 federal criminal defendants prosecuted nationwide were convicted” Source: Beating a federal rap not easy – Pittsburgh Tribune-Revie
    http://www.aipnews.com/talk/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=19688

  81. Any aspiring politicians here will be well advised to ‘forget’, if they ever knew, that the United Nations once upon a time had a policy describing Zionism as a form of racism (“Z=R”).

    Read accounts nowadays, and you’ll hear that the opponents of ditching the said policy were a bunch of rabid Nazis. You wonder just how fucking long the Zionazis are going to be able to run with that one. But no-one ever lost money underestimating the intelligence of the conditioned ‘public’, so it’s said.

    When Jenny Tonge was told to choose between “apologising” (!) for her criticism of Israel and losing the Liberal Democrat whip, she told Clegg to shove the whip where the Sun didn’t shine. Got to give credit where it’s due.

  82. States are the enemy. We are the people.

    Without the State, who will protect us from the Corporation?

    I’d like to see the latter dismantled first. Then we’ll deal with the State.

  83. I’m not sure what anyone in the UK could have done to avoid the subversion of our liberties by a state-enemy, Uzbek. Whistleblowers have some effect, but the state has ways of silencing them and redacting their legacy. Did Craig achieve any marked reform either in Uzbekistan or in the FCO? He raised public awareness magnificently, yes, but nothing seems to have altered: the nail that stood up was the nail that was hammered down, as the Japanese saying has it. Mass action has uncertain results, and with a consumerist, drugged population, is impossible to implement. What we are led to believe we are voting for is not recognisably related to what we get – saying it’s our fault implies that there’s a collective will for justice, and there isn’t. There is no visible route to a fair society that I can see, (though I am very open to suggestions).

  84. Andrea Davison, another whistle-blower, is living abroad and has made the following revelations regarding child abuse in Wales.

    http://macurstatement.blogspot.co.uk/

  85. Colin Brace I can relate to. How to dismantle the corporations? Stop buying stuff. Particularly stuff you don’t need. That IS an effective weapon. Possibly the only one left.

  86. The Daily Telegraph published an article calling Jenny Tonge “Jihad Jenny”.

    The same newspaper also published an article “In Defence of Anders Breivik”, by Roger Hicks.

  87. Flaming June

    26 Jul, 2013 - 1:12 pm

    No UK politician ever goes to Gaza Komodo. B.Liar made a fleeting visit after Cast Lead.

    I know about Stollar. He tried to get into parliament in Buckinghamshire and failed.
    He is one of David Ward’s ‘re-educators’.
    http://www.palestinechronicle.com/israel-flag-wavers-to-re-educate-mp-david-ward/#.UfJj3K9wbSc

    LDFoI is/was run by a fervent Zionist Monroe Palmer. Cleggover has ennobled him. He is a Barnet borough councillor as is his wife Susette.
    http://barnet.moderngov.co.uk/mgMemberIndex.aspx?FN=PARTY&VW=LIST&PIC=0

    He enters his interest in LDFoI and also declares receipt of ‘fees’ but does not give any source for them.
    http://barnet.moderngov.co.uk/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=150&T=6

    A puff piece about him here. No mention of Israel of course.

    http://www.libdemvoice.org/local-liberal-heroes-monroe-palmer-24887.html

  88. Flaming June

    26 Jul, 2013 - 1:14 pm

    Colin Brace Did you mean the Zionist Broadcasting Corporation or corporations in general? :)

  89. Colin Brace 26 Jul, 2013 – 12:47 pm

    “Without the State, who will protect us from the Corporation? I’d like to see the latter dismantled first. Then we’ll deal with the State.”

    Ah but doesn’t the people’s state immediately becomes the people’s only in name. At least that seems to have happened before and it makes perfect sense. Everyone is corruptible so retaining mechanisms of power invites corruption. In corporations and states.

    I hope for a gradual dismantling of both.

  90. Another LibDem lord who tells the truth and is censured for it -

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Phillips,_Baron_Phillips_of_Sudbury

    The Zionist Federation’s Jonathan Hoffman had this to say about Lord Phillips:

    “Lord Phillips is an obnoxious man and his views are revolting.”

    High praise indeed, considering the source. Imagine if Phillips had said that about Hoffman….

    More on Hoffman here, hilariously acid stuff from a Jewish blogger.

    http://www.jewdas.org/2010/08/jonathan-hoffman-anti-zionist-hero/

    Put this with your links, please, Craig.

    Sample:
    Now at this juncture we could go all po-faced, condemn his behaviour, and call for the Zionist Federation to sack him. But that would be an error. Jonathan Hoffman is so extreme, so constantly dogmatic, rude, intellectually dubious and pig headed that he constantly brings the Zionist Federation, and his own cause, into disrepute. There can be only one explanation, that he is in fact an Anti-Zionist mole trying to bring down the British Zionist movement. At this, he is doing an excellent job. No other anti-Zionist has had such success in promoting the cause and making Zionism look ridiculous. Whether funded by Hezbolllah, or simply doing it as a hobby Hoffman is the anti-zionist activist par excellence. Jonathan, we salute you!

  91. Flaming June

    26 Jul, 2013 - 2:19 pm

    Have you ever been at a PSC meeting or similar which Hoffman has attended? He arrives with a young helper with armfuls of papers and then attempts to heckle throughout. Most chairpersons are wise to him these days. Is he still around?

    http://hoffmanchronicled.wordpress.com/isis-men-in-london/hoffman-gone-mad-ahava-26_11_10-9/

    Is he still around? Silly question.
    http://www.thejc.com/users/jonathan-hoffman

    I see that they are having a go at John Hilley of Zenpolitics and Medialens about his support for David Ward. Written by Matthew Harris ex vice chair of LDFoI in February. Tedious comments are still coming in!
    http://www.thejc.com/blogs/matthewharris/david-ward-blog-post-written-john-hilley

  92. Flaming June

    26 Jul, 2013 - 2:31 pm

    We must watch out for the word ‘so’.

    So, here’s a carefully packaged sentence that shows me in my best light
    In a society where people market themselves as commodities, starting a sentence with ‘so’ signals a desire to impress

    Oliver James

    [..]
    So what? Care should be taken before building ideological mountains out of verbal molehills. But I think all this So-ing may be a symptom of broader trends. It is a fact that we have become what Erich Fromm characterised as marketing characters in a marketing society. Such characters experience themselves as commodities whose value and meaning are externally determined. They define themselves by having rather than being, by what they own, not who they are. This homo consumens is a thing to be bought and sold, just like a house or a car. All of us are involved in trying to increase the value of the commodity that is us.

    An Australian study of such people showed that, among other things, people who score high on a test of marketing character are heavy consumers, uncritical of society and have a strong drive to publicise and promote themselves. With a 24-hour news cycle, public figures have been forced to become acutely wary of what they say in public. Frank authenticity has almost disappeared. Even the Today programme sometimes seems as if it has given up the struggle to uncover the truth. But, more profoundly, the present ruling elite � many of whom never knew a society that was not governed by Thatcherism or Blairism, have been forced from a young age to market themselves. The pursuit of money, status and fame (affluenza, materialism) are our primary values.
    /..
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/26/so-sentence-starter-artifice-manipulation

    ‘So’ is a funny little adverb isn’t it?

  93. Sofia Kibo Noh

    26 Jul, 2013 - 2:39 pm

    @ Komodo. 1 32pm

    Thanks for the link.

    But just who is he hinting at?

    “Mr Hoffkuk is the leading thug (sorry spokesperson) of the Zionist Federation and is frequently to be found engaging in vitriol, abuse and wild accusation (sorry ‘hasbara’). What is notable about dear Jonathan is his constant willingness to ‘go there’ – no pussyfooting around for him. So when others merely hint at it, Jonathan will happily declare that anti-zionism equals anti-semitism. He will have no hesitation about tarring all criticism, as ‘anti Israel’, and all opponents as either self-hating Jews or anti-semites. Naturally Jonathan declines to accept that the occupation exists, insists that Israel is a full democracy, that all its actions are 100% justifiable and that human rights campaigners are Islamists in disguise. Jonathan likes to turn up to left wing events and shout, heckle and genuine make an ass of himself. So far so good. But in his latest action Jonathan has surpassed himself.”

    ( I know. Just when you think she’s plumbed the depths Sofia stoops even lower! )

  94. It looks as if the real antisemitic sin is putting the words “atrocity” and “Israel” in the same room together. (and see FJ’s third link @ 2:19)

    Like Ha’aretz did.

    http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/israel-should-never-forget-its-mideast-atrocities-1.424506

    An awful reflection on our own leaders and journalists as much as on Israel’s propagandists that the same headline would be generally inadmissible in a UK paper. (by mutual consent not to attract a shitstorm from BICOM or its offspring)

    Our Press freedom is, de facto, worse than Israel’s. Apparently thanks to Israel. Go figure.

  95. Sophia, it had crossed my mind that Hoffkuk and Hoffkuk were in fact the same poster. Thank you for confirming my suspicions. BTW, if you’re looking for your dad, I saw him earlier trying to look inconspicuous with a petrol can near the Teddington Mosque. Go and get him before he gets into trouble, eh?

  96. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    26 Jul, 2013 - 2:48 pm

    @ Komodo (13h32)

    Excellent quotation in italics from a “Jewish commenter”!

    Here is part of it again, retouched slightly to bring it into accord with the efforts of some of the regular ‘contributors’ to this blog:

    “Flaming June, Komodo et al are so extreme, so constantly dogmatic, rude, intellectually dubious and pig headed that they constantly bring the anti-Israel and anti-Zionist forces, and their own cause, into disrepute. There can be only one explanation, that they are in fact Zionist moles trying to bring down the British anti-Israel and anti-Zionist movements. At this, they are doing an excellent job.”

    I have, actually, long harboured such a suspicion :)

  97. Flaming June

    26 Jul, 2013 - 3:06 pm

    That last is SO funny.

  98. Flaming June

    26 Jul, 2013 - 3:10 pm

    Are the scales are falling off? Habbakuk was the original handle in November 2012.

    Jonathan Hoffman Offline
    Religion: Judaism
    Title:Sophomore Member Join Date: Jan 2013
    Gender: Male
    Posts: 395
    Frubals: 21
    Jonathan Hoffman is an unknown quantity at this point

    Default

    Net.bible translates Hab 2:4 as
    2:4 Look, the one whose desires are not upright will faint from exhaustion, 12
    but the person of integrity 13 will live 14 because of his faithfulness. 15

    https://net.bible.org/#!bible/Habakkuk+2

    http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/biblical-debates/144121-habbukuk-2-4-mistranslated-2.html

  99. Glen; The “Collateral Murder” incident was news from the time it happened. Wikileaks revealed nothing except the video and what secrets did that reveal? A full transcript of the incident formed part of a book published by David Finkel the previous year, 2009. If the US are so sensitive about this incident why hasn’t he been stitched up on a rape charge yet?

    http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2009-09-15/world/36905794_1_reuters-apache-namir-noor-eldeen

  100. That last is SO funny.

    Yeah interesting! Kind of similar to kindergarten Crayon

  101. Flaming June

    26 Jul, 2013 - 3:15 pm

    ‘Area C’. Ghastly is it not? South Africa had ‘areas’.

    Israel freezes co-operation with EU in Palestinian territories
    Move follows European Union directive banning funding for bodies linked with Israeli settlements

    guardian.co.uk, Friday 26 July 2013 12.07 BST

    Israel has frozen co-operation with the European Union on work in the Palestinian territories in retaliation for an EU directive banning funding or grants for bodies with links to Israeli settlements.

    The move, authorised by the defence minister, Moshe Ya’alon, affects all projects requiring permits from the Civil Administration, which governs Area C, the 60% of the West Bank under full Israeli control; access of EU diplomats and representatives to Area C and Gaza; and joint meetings.

    No permits have been issued to EU humanitarian aid workers to enter Gaza for several days, according to a western diplomatic source.
    /..
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/26/israel-freezes-co-operation-eu-palestinian

  102. Flaming June

    26 Jul, 2013 - 3:18 pm

    John Kerry, a dead ringer for John McCain, and just as cruel. This is written by Jeffery St Clair, co editor of Counterpunch.

    The Blood-Soaked Resumé of a Peace Broker

    What John Kerry Really Did in Vietnam

    by JEFFREY ST. CLAIR

    With John Kerry currently in full Henry Kissinger regalia, parading around the Middle East bullying the Palestinians and their allies in the region and Europe into signing onto a deeply flawed peace accord that primarily serves Israeli and American interests, it may prove a useful exercise to inspect the curriculum vitae of this putative peace-maker, especially during those formative years when the Secretary of State first carved out his name in the jungles of Southeast Asia. Though Kerry has a reputation as an anti-war activist, his brief tenure in Vietnam and Cambodia was notable both for acts of casual savagery and his striking lack of contrition for his own participation in atrocities that in a rational society might easily be classified as war crimes.–JSC

    In his senior year at Yale in 1966 John Kerry enlisted in the US Navy, with his actual induction scheduled for the summer, after his graduation. Already notorious among his contemporaries for his political ambition, he’d maneuvered himself into the top slot at the Yale political union, while also winning admission to Skull and Bones.

    While George W. Bush, two years behind Kerry, was seeking commercial opportunity at Yale by selling ounce bags of cocaine, (so one contemporary has recalled) Kerry was keeping a vigilant eye on the political temperature and duly noted a contradiction between his personal commitment to go to war and the growing antiwar sentiment among the masses, some of whom he hoped would vote for him at a not too distant time.

    /..
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/07/26/what-john-kerry-really-did-in-vietnam/

  103. Sofia Kibo Noh

    26 Jul, 2013 - 3:23 pm

    @Flaming. 2 31pm

    Sounds like a bunch of so and sos to me.

    Will it forever be so?

    This post is ,em> so scraping the barrel.

    So long or should I say “Slán”

    ….

    Lasmuigh den ábhar.

    An t-Asal Marbh

    Caitheann an tAth Ó Briain a shuil an tfhuinneog amach ar maidin agus cad tá ar an bhfaiche taobh amú roimhe ach asal marbh.

    Glaonn se ar oifig na nGardaí ar an dteileafon agus deireann,”Tá asal marbh ‘na luí ar m’fhaiche taobh amú. An misde cupla gardaí a cuireadh cugam i leith cun é a thogaint as?”

    “Cheapas i gcomhnui gur ar do churamsa e Óla Deireanach a cuireadh ar na marbh!” deireann an garda.

    Fanann an tAth Ó Briain in a thóst go cheann cupla noimeataí.

    Agus ansin deireann sé, “Is cheart dom eolas a cuireadh ar na ngeasghaol ardtus!”

  104. Jonathan will happily declare that anti-zionism equals anti-semitism. He will have no hesitation about tarring all criticism, as ‘anti Israel’, and all opponents as either self-hating Jews or anti-semites. Naturally Jonathan declines to accept that the occupation exists, insists that Israel is a full democracy, that all its actions are 100% justifiable and that human rights campaigners are Islamists in disguise. Jonathan likes to turn up to left wing events and shout, heckle and genuine(ly) make an ass of himself…..

    Such a good link, I’ll post it twice.

    http://www.jewdas.org/2010/08/jonathan-hoffman-anti-zionist-hero/

  105. Komodo, thanks for the link re RW and flying pig with star of david.

    Interesting that most people can’t manage a fart in protest when a country’s flag is burnt but any desecration of the holy image of Israel is subjected to a coordinated attack like we see with humourous depictions of ProMo. Sometimes I think that Muslims and Jews deserve each other. If only they would keep their internecine affections for one another within the dusty boundaries of the (un)holy land.

  106. Komodo Said;

    Jonathan will happily declare that anti-zionism equals anti-semitism. He will have no hesitation about tarring all criticism, as ‘anti Israel’, and all opponents as either self-hating Jews or anti-semites. Naturally Jonathan declines to accept that the occupation exists, insists that Israel is a full democracy, that all its actions are 100% justifiable and that human rights campaigners are Islamists in disguise. Jonathan likes to turn up to left wing events and shout, heckle and genuine(ly) make an ass of himself…..

    Agreed, it may even be better to be posted thrice, in case someone missed it .

  107. Uzbek in the UK

    26 Jul, 2013 - 3:34 pm

    Komodo,

    The last 2000 years of human history proves your statement to be false. States have always been repressive and elites have always been unwilling to share their power with society. However; some of us generated progressive ideas that changes a lot in the course of two millenias. Some of us died for the progress and for what we now call freedoms. Absolutism and religious oppression of medieval Europe was turned into modern societies with representative system of power and religious freedoms. However; states now again trying to subvert these freedoms in order to do what they do the best – benefit elites.

  108. I would like to offer this link to an address by a concerned Israeli Jew who spells out the difficulty he has in accepting the Netanyahu narrative. And confirms that Israel has NO INTENTION of permitting any kind of Palestinian state.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOaxAckFCuQ&feature=player_embedded&t=80

    The name of the game: erasing Palestine, getting rid of the people and de-Arabizing the country…

    “When people talk about the possibility of Israel… giving up the West Bank for a Palestinian state, if it wasn’t so sad it would be funny. It shows a complete misunderstanding of the objective of Zionism and the Zionist state.

    “By 1993 the Israelis had achieved their mission to make the conquest of the West Bank irreversible. By 1993 the Israeli government knew for certain that a Palestinian state could not be established in the West Bank – the settlements were there, $billions were invested, the entire Jordan River valley was settled… there was no place any more for a Palestinian state to be established. That is when Israel said, OK, we’ll begin negotiations…”

  109. Not sure which of my statements you object to, Uzbek. What I would like to know is how we move from a corporate, greed-based political economy in which the vast majority are simply not discontented enough to move, and too well subdued by anodyne propaganda to realise that things will get gradually and subtly worse until they are restored to actual serfdom, in the absence of effective weaponry or any prospect of external aid…to an ideal society (on which we are bound to disagree anyway) I take Egypt as my model. What more should Egyptians have done to obtain a truly democratic state? They were pre-empted, outflanked and shafted by the global big battalions. The rise from feudalism to an acceptable system cannot be repeated by the same means. What means do you suggest?

  110. UITU Said

    Absolutism and religious oppression of medieval Europe was turned into modern societies with representative system of power and religious freedoms.

    How did that go?

    Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya;
    Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya;
    Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya;
    Oh, Lord, kumbaya.

    Or was it:

    Ging gang goolie goolie goolie goolie watcha,
    Ging gang goo, ging gang goo.

    states now again trying to subvert these freedoms in order to do what they do the best

    Interesting, there are optimists believing there are degrees of freedom for the autonomous slaves, that are being eroded.

  111. “CORRUPTION BY COMMITTEE; SCRUTINISING THE SCRUTINEERS”

    http://www.firmmagazine.com/corruption-committee-scrutinising-scrutineers/

  112. On the photograph in this link there are lots of giant Yanks ensuring a little man in glasses does not escape custody. The little man has more balls than the lot of them. Prosecutors in the Bradley Manning trial have summed up by saying his purpose was to aid Al Qaeda (a CIA-created terrorist group).

    http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2013/0725/Bradley-Manning-trial-closing-arguments-ask-Why-did-he-do-it

  113. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    26 Jul, 2013 - 4:22 pm

    “Major Fein also stressed the direct connection between what Manning leaked and Al Qaeda, including information gathered when Osama bin Laden was killed by US Navy SEALs.

    “He had actual knowledge that the enemies of the US used the Internet and WikiLeaks to gather information to be used against this country,” Fein said. “He knew releasing such information on the Internet would be in the hands of terrorists and other adversaries of this nation.””

    John Goss; Attorneys remarks are not evidence. Have they proven the ‘intent’ to aid the enemy?

    He talks about ‘reckless’ behavior and that’s a ways off from intent. A person can be guilty of being reckless while driving a car. If he kills a pedestrian and they want to prove intent so they can charge with murder, it’s a much steeper cliff.

    When the Prosecutor says ‘he knew releasing such information…..’ that only means he’s convinced, not the judge.

    But, the way the military has treated the journalists covering this story, I’m not sure of Judge Lind’s autonomy.

  114. Uzbek in the UK

    26 Jul, 2013 - 4:26 pm

    Passerby

    The results might be more important here than the process itself. Although if you are interested in the process, there is a lot of reading material available. This gradually happen in Europe more than anywhere else. Some argue that despite huge human cost two world wars greatly contributed to demise of religion in Europe at last.

  115. Flaming June

    26 Jul, 2013 - 4:32 pm

    Will Edward Snowden believe Eric Holder’s assurance that he will not be tortured or receive the death penalty if he returns to the US? How generous of the United States.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1120836/us-will-not-seek-death-penalty-for-snowden

  116. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    26 Jul, 2013 - 4:39 pm

    “Unfortunately, assuming there is no war, nobody would know what, or which, currency to trust,”

    If the fabric of society were torn, any currency would most likely be untenable as trade. Foodstuffs, coffee, liquor and other items would be sought in exchange for other needs.

    Junk silver is recognized in many quarters as having intrinsic value based upon current market value. For example, even now with silver being pommeled it’s at $18 per oz. If you have a 1964 or earlier US half-dollar it has .336 oz of silver so it’s value is a bout 6 bucks. It’s not useful for apocalyptic scenarios, but it’s a good stopgap for short-term regional crises.

  117. Uzbek in the UK

    26 Jul, 2013 - 4:51 pm

    Komodo,

    If only I new good and applicable practical answer. Marxism could be good example of ideal or better say academic answer to this but as it turned out it was a disaster in practise.

    Further development of civil societies could be good way forward. Societies that less dependent of state and that have means of communication within and between each other (something like internet). However; as it is evident state (elites) is penetrating hard both means of communication is subverting further development of civil societies by eroding foundations of understanding of common good by replacing it with need of material benefits. For instance rising living costs and consumerism make people more silent and some would rather shut their eyes on wrong doings to keep their jobs (like many in FCO) than criticising and becoming scape goats.

  118. Some argue that despite huge human cost two world wars greatly contributed to demise of religion in Europe at last.

    True some used to argue the Earth is flat, and others argued Earth was at the centre of the universe, and still there were those who argued, Blacks could not fly aircraft, in the very wars that evidently did so much for the cause of humanity, and its progress!

    There always is misanthropy, then there is bloody genocide, and of course there is the last option of would it not be nice for the Human vermin to disappear from the face of the Earth. All said and conveyed in the most palatable fashion of the zeitgeist!

  119. “Military Industrial Congressional Intelligence Complex”

    http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=6116

  120. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    26 Jul, 2013 - 5:53 pm

    A blood-diamond whistleblower….https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Gordon_Douglas_Brown

    A blood-diamond enforcer—Sam Childers (machine-gun preacher -leaded version)

    His was the inspiration for the Gerard Butler movie.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Childers

  121. Flaming June

    26 Jul, 2013 - 6:28 pm

    The connections between Israel and South Sudan.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93South_Sudan_relations

    Oil and water are mentioned.

    ~~~

    I read about this protest in Brighton against Southern Water using Israeli made water meters.

    http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/news/content/view/full/135830PaPalestine Activist Wins Water Fight.

    Good for Caroline.

    Arad Technologies –
    http://arad.co.il/learning-center/case-studies/southern-waters-amr-implementation/

    Based in Dalia, Israel a kibbutz that found water.
    http://www.dalia.org.il/kibutz/begin.html

  122. KhartoumKarli

    26 Jul, 2013 - 6:29 pm

    ” States are the enemy “, well yes they are if they are denying their citizens their human rights. I guess we were a lot more human when we made that UN charter.
    The problems with the States which we have problems with , are , that they have become fascist. Corporations are fascist.They respect no borders, they avoid paying tax,break the law, they manipulate politicians with the money they don’t pay in tax.
    Look at Wullie Hague for gods sake. There was a (man ?) without a f***n clue and yet now she is our Foreign Secretary and they , whoever they are , have given her something to say, something to strive for, defend, get passionate about….. Suddenly clueless little Willie has a stage.. Cameron and Osborne are no different. There’s a script writer in there somewhere.The same guy who beds his male assistant and wanders the streets in a baseball cap, is suddenly projected as being Churchillian… He’s a ball handler and always hasbeen.
    People power, why does it not work ?? Craig, you chose the Liberals thinking they were different from the other MS parties only to find out they are all bought and paid for by the same bunch… whoever they are. The fact they have a zionist agenda could just be a BIG coincidence…
    Why isn’t there a decent alternative politics wise to the LibLabCons ? Why can’t someone come up with a Bank that operates the way they were supposed to ? Why don’t we change what we don’t like ? The younger generation are far too quiet for my liking, and the bite’s gone out of ours.
    There was so much hope in Tarir Square and it has been reduced to a grin in an army uniform with a groovy pair of shades. Is that our fate too ?
    On the bright side, I’m out of Sudan now . The only oppressive things there are the heat and Ramadan for a non-believer like myself.
    And I finally saw the Blue Nile
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDTxD55Fz9w

  123. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    26 Jul, 2013 - 6:49 pm

    To illustrate his contention that states are the enemy (of the people), Craig takes the examples of Assange, Manning and Snowden, Navalny and British MP David Ward to show that neither the US, nor Russia, nor the UK, are truly promoting the values of human freedom. So the US, Russia and the UK all come under fire and their outlooks and actions are seen as roughly equivalent. Israel is mentioned by Craig to illustrate his UK/David Craig example.

    It is therefore quite revealing of the pensée unique and certain obsessions on this blog that of the comments posted so far, the kicks (whether on-topic or not) are distributed approximately as follow:

    - the US gets about 23 kicks
    - Israel/the Zionists get about 22 kicks
    - Russia gets about 2 kicks
    - The UK gets 1 kick.

  124. The Justice system in the UK has been subverted for use as a tool of repression by the state. Its all very totalitarian and the model has to be the former Soviet Union. Assange, Snowden, Manning and the UK’s own whistleblower Andrea Davison seek asylum from Western oppression. The UK’s Andrea Davison is not a young man like the others but a pensioner and former intelligence operative with an incruable illness forced to seek asylum because of persecution by the UK government

    http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/87110-former-british-intelligence-operative-andrea-davisons-explosive-evidence-to-the-macur-investigation-into-north-wales-child-abuse-an-absolutely-must-read-and-must-circulate

  125. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    26 Jul, 2013 - 7:41 pm

    ‘Porn’ takes on many definitions depending on who’s defining.

    that’s a failure of the educational system. Dismantle it.

  126. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    26 Jul, 2013 - 7:42 pm

  127. Flaming June

    26 Jul, 2013 - 7:51 pm

    The poster @ 6.49pm is SO good at counting numbers. Top of the class.

    I think that should be UK/David Ward btw.

  128. Horace Swanson

    26 Jul, 2013 - 9:02 pm

    “Exactly as in Uzbekistan, the conviction rate in criminal trials is over 99%.”

    That’s hardly unusual. It’s over 98% in the USA, and something similar in Japan.

  129. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    26 Jul, 2013 - 10:01 pm

    @ Flaming June

    “The poster @ 6.49pm is SO good at counting numbers. Top of the class.”
    ____________________-

    Yes, I know you don’t like numbers very much.

    Certain kinds of numbers anyway.

    I remember how upset you got with Glenn_uk when he was once kind enough to supply numbers for who had posted how many times on a number of threads. :)

  130. only one big ball

    26 Jul, 2013 - 10:07 pm

  131. - the US gets about 23 kicks
    - Israel/the Zionists get about 22 kicks

    Sounds about right. The two biggest threats to peace. The two most rogue states on the planet.

  132. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)
    25 Jul, 2013 – 6:19 pm

    “It’s sad to see that this simple message – expressed in clear English – simply does not penetrate into the minds of (some) readers, who swerve away from Russia in order to give a supplementary kick to the US.”

    Habbabkuk; who on this blog supports Russia – politically or on human rights?

    Why have you not addressed Craig’s points re-produced below?

    “It is rather a commonplace sentiment that it is a terribly sad thing, that their community having suffered dreadfully in the Holocaust, the European Jews involved in founding the state of Israel went on themselves to inflict terrible pain and devastation on the Palestinians in the Nakba. Both the Holocaust and the Nakba were horrific events of human suffering. For this not startling observation, David Ward is removed from the Liberal Democrats. He also stated that, with its ever increasing number of racially specific laws, its walls and racially restricted roads, Israel is becoming an apartheid state.”

    And:

    “In the United States, the House of Representatives failed by just 12 votes to make illegal the mass snooping by the NSA which was not widely publicised until Edward Snowden’s revelations. What Snowden said was so important that almost half the country’s legislators wished to act on his information. Yet the executive wish to pursue him and remove all his freedom for the rest of his life, as they are doing to Bradley Manning for Manning’s exposure of war crimes and extreme duplicity.”

    You’re not really up to the task are you?

  133. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    26 Jul, 2013 - 10:25 pm

    @ Doug Scorgie

    “Habbabkuk; who on this blog supports Russia – politically or on human rights?”
    ______________________

    I have no idea, Doug.

    And now a question for you, in turn : who on this blog comments on political,, social or human rights abuses in Russia, China, India, Pakistan, Syria, Egypt, North Korea, Venezuela, Ecuador, Zimbabwe, South Africa and various corrupt and despotic African countries?

    If nobody, why should this be so, do you think?

  134. Juteman
    25 Jul, 2013 – 7:03 pm

    “There are no juries in most Scottish trials. The Sheriff is god.”

    Are you trying to mislead Juteman? Perhaps you’re anti-independence laddie.

    There are no juries in most of England’s trials either because the majority of cases are heard at Magistrates courts (no jury).

  135. Kempe
    25 Jul, 2013 – 7:17 pm

    “Unfortunately the case for Assange being the victim of a US conspiracy comes unstuck when you notice that the release of the American diplomatic cables didn’t start until the 28th Novemeber 2010; eight days after the arrest warrant was issued and nearly 3 months after the rape complaints were first made.”

    Not true Mr Kempe:

    “The United States diplomatic cables leak, widely known as Cablegate, began in February 2010…”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_diplomatic_cables_leak

    The arrest warrant for rape was issued in August 2010. Six months AFTER the leaks began.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11949341

    I note your use of the word conspiracy.

  136. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    26 Jul, 2013 - 11:17 pm

    @ Scourge :

    “”Juteman
    25 Jul, 2013 – 7:03 pm

    “There are no juries in most Scottish trials. The Sheriff is god.”

    Are you trying to mislead Juteman? Perhaps you’re anti-independence laddie.

    There are no juries in most of England’s trials either because the majority of cases are heard at Magistrates courts (no jury).”
    __________________

    Illogical argument, there, Dougie : you found your accusation that Juteman is trying to mislead people by saying there are no juries in most Scottish trials on your revelation that there are no juries in most of England’s trials EITHER?

    A bit like saying, for example, that Doug Scourgie isn’t intelligent because Herbie and Macky aren’t intelligent EITHER, isn’t it?

  137. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    26 Jul, 2013 - 11:29 pm

    “Everyone is corruptible so retaining mechanisms of power invites corruption. In corporations and states.

    I hope for a gradual dismantling of both.”

    —————–

    And what happens after the dismantlings have been completed?

  138. Sofia Kibo Noh

    26 Jul, 2013 - 11:36 pm

    doug scorgie

    26 Jul, 2013 – 10:11 pm

    “Habbabkuk …..You’re not really up to the task are you?”

    Doug.
    Have you no heart? How can you be so too hard on Dad? After all he has selflessly taken on an impossible task which, day after endless day, he cheerfully throws himself into heart and soul. But even with his vast intellect it’s still impossible to defend the indefensible.

    Sometimes it just all gets a bit too much for him. Who wouldn’t moved by his attempt at 10 01pm.

    “Yes, I know you don’t like numbers very much.

    Certain kinds of numbers anyway.”

    Sigmund Freud would, if he wasn’t dead, intervene here like a shot he would tell you this is a classic example of paranoid hysterical projection triggered by ingrained phobias about periods and women’s power and suppressed feelings of foolishmess. Only a decade of intensive psychoanalysis would have a chance of bringing relief from such a torment.

    So please, just put yourself in Dad’s shoes for a moment. Give him credit where credit is due. Doesn’t it take a unique talent to confidently enter a discussion and turn it into the intellectual equivalent of cold tapioca with a few taps on his keyboard?

    Remember his valiant efforts to convince the Eministas that 2500000 US soldiers through Shannon Airport wasn’t really “millions” because, um, 2.5 isn’t really that much more than one. Even Kibo had trouble with that one and she’s a world renowned mathematical genuis.

    So next time you feel tempted to have a go at Dad just remember, even henchmen have feelings.

  139. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    26 Jul, 2013 - 11:40 pm

    “Sigmund Freud would, if he wasn’t dead, intervene here like a shot he would tell you this is a classic example of paranoid hysterical projection triggered by ingrained phobias about periods and women’s power and suppressed feelings of foolishmess. Only a decade of intensive psychoanalysis would have a chance of bringing relief from such a torment.”

    Shorter version; penis envy; but the projection? That’s even shorter.

  140. BRADLEY MANNING NEEDS YOUR SUPPORT NOW. US government says he is a “traitor” with “evil intent”

    SIGN THE NOBEL PRIZE PETITION

    http://bit.ly/1bMEJBp

    Petition has 96,000 signatories

  141. Jon: Replied to your comment/ questions to me in this earlier thread regarding free speech on the blog. Thanks.

  142. Flaming June
    25 Jul, 2013 – 7:58 pm

    “In a ruling delivered this week, the BBC Trust appears to have accepted Israel’s facts on the ground, namely that Jerusalem is a united Israeli city.”

    Not surprising Mary; the BBC has been like this for decades but usually discretely. Now it appears that the state broadcaster is happy to proclaim aloud its biased stance on political issues ranging from Royal babies to ethnic cleansing by Israel.

    The hiring of an ardent Zionist, James Harding, says it all.

    “James Harding will be in charge of its flagship news and current affairs programs including Today, Newsnight, Panorama and Question Time. He will also be responsible for daily news bulletins on the BBC’s main television channels and radio stations.”

    “In 2011, Harding spoke at a media event organized by The Jewish Chronicle, telling his audience: “I am pro-Israel. I believe in the State of Israel. I would have had a real problem if I had been coming to a paper [The Times] with a history of being anti-Israel. And, of course, Rupert Murdoch is pro-Israel.”

    He also said:

    “We wrote an editorial called ‘In defence of Israel’ during the Gaza offensive, but we also reported on the use of white phosphorus, which was the Israelis breaking their own rules.”

    Breaking their own rules? It was breaking international law and a war crime.

    If states are the enemy, as Craig mentioned, then in the UK the BBC is also the enemy.

    Of course the alternative to the BBC is a private corporation like Fox TV but whatever model of funding, the state would hold the upper hand as with the so called “free press”.

    That means the Main Stream Media is the enemy.

  143. Well Said Doug. The MSM are certainly a long held Enemy of the poor Souls we have been murdering in far off lands.

    Almost 300,000 Palestinians from the West Bank and Israel headed to the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem to perform Ramadan prayers on yesterday

    http://www.alresalah.ps/en/index.php?act=post&id=2370

  144. Anon
    26 Jul, 2013 – 9:34 am

    “An excellent and timely post, Craig, not least because some of your followers think the sun shines out of Putin’s backside merely for his thwarting of some of the West’s evil schemes.”

    Which followers are you talking about Anon? Any names?

    “One must, of course, be careful not to ‘go over to the other side’ – to start hailing Russia, Syria, Iran as paragons of civilized virtue and decency, as some here are wont to do.”

    Names please.

  145. @ Craig,
    You said:-
    “It is rather a commonplace sentiment that it is a terribly sad thing, that their community having suffered dreadfully in the Holocaust, the European Jews involved in founding the state of Israel went on themselves to inflict terrible pain and devastation on the Palestinians in the Nakba. Both the Holocaust and the Nakba were horrific events of human suffering. For this not startling observation, David Ward is removed from the Liberal Democrats. He also stated that, with its ever increasing number of racially specific laws, its walls and racially restricted roads, Israel is becoming an apartheid state.”
    You may care to consider that the world is round and what went around – sometimes does come around:-
    http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/Caribbean-leaders-to-seek-slavery-reparations-from-Europe | Jamaican News Online – JamaicaObserver.com
    http://blackagendareport.com/blog/62

  146. “Are you trying to mislead Juteman? Perhaps you’re anti-independence laddie.”

    Hey Juteman, you’re a traitor because you criticised the Scottish legal system which like the Scottish government and everything else Scottish is perfect and can do no wrong.

  147. “A bit like saying, for example, that Doug Scourgie isn’t intelligent because Herbie and Macky aren’t intelligent EITHER, isn’t it?”

    Or a bit like saying for example the infant mortality rate in Palestine isn’t appalling because the infant mortality rate in Ethiopia is as bad.

  148. In the back pages:

    “George Galloway’s ex-secretary faces charges over data protection”

    “Aisha Ali-Khan charged with data-protection offences allegedly carried out while she was working for Respect MP last year”

    “A Met police officer based in the counter-terrorism unit S015, Detective Inspector Afiz Khan, known as Alfie, was also charged with two related counts of misconduct in a public office and four counts of data-protection offences between May and September 2012.”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jul/25/george-galloway-secretary-ali-khan-data-charges

  149. @ Hab,

    You posted:-

    “Scarlet Pampers’ statement that the “USA does not have a functioning criminal justice system at all either” is tosh.”

    Well – just look at:-

    1. US criminal justice system’s rates of incarcerations of minorities versus whites – and relative to the same offence.

    2. The “buyability” of the criminal justice system in the US when one weighs nature of crime relative to quality of defence representation related to the defendant charged.’

    3. Forget the laws as drafted in the US criminal justice system – and just ” stand your ground – Hab”

  150. Flaming June

    27 Jul, 2013 - 7:29 am

    There has been terrible slaughter in the square at the Rabaa al-Adawiya mosque overnight. There are reports that 70 people have been killed with the army using live rounds.

    The propaganda machine yesterday was putting out stuff about Morsi’s links to Hamas. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/23464016 – Jim Muir who is usually in Lebanon reporting on Syria!

    Strange that. There have been the same difficulties for the Palestinians attempting to leave or enter Gaza at the Rafah gate during the period of Morsi’s presidency as there were in Mubarrak’s time.

  151. Flaming June

    27 Jul, 2013 - 7:57 am

    Did anyone hear Welby on Radio 4 Today yesterday?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03775fr/live 8.10am 16mins

    This archbishop came over as shallow and an apologist for capital, including the most aggressive usury. He discussed the niceties of interest rates. He even gave Wonga a pat on the back. They are very professional and keep good books. Wow!

    Pay day loans are a great wart on our nation and imho utterly amoral with their massively high interest rates into 1000s of percentages. Yet he spoke using all shades of grey. He made no mention of why, ‘in our depressed areas’, people turn to loan sharks. Their employment opportunities are poor or non-existent and unlike the elite, probably their education too. The wages too are poor if there is employment and rents exorbitant.

    And then there is the list of amoral Church Commissioners’ investments which include hotels who profit from pornography on the bedroom TVs (and Visa too) and gambling. ‘Very difficult, many facets.’

    We have a ‘dog eats dog’ society, which the ex Big Oil rep will not impinge on at all. You could feel his lack of real concern, and John Humphrys drew it out well.

    He is very obviously a Cameron ‘pick’ to use the US word. Should he even be a priest, let alone an Archbishop? He is a lightweight and cannot give any moral leadership.

  152. Flaming June

    27 Jul, 2013 - 8:06 am

    John Pilger comments on our present condition and exhorts us to take action.

    How We are Impoverished, Gentrified and Silenced … and What to Do About It
    The Age of Regression

    by JOHN PILGER
    London

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/07/26/the-age-of-regression/

    [..]
    How long can the British watch the uprisings across the world and do little apart from mourn the long-dead Labour Party? The Edward Snowden revelations show the infrastructure of a police state emerging in Europe, especially Britain. Yet, people are more aware than ever before; and governments fear popular resistance – which is why truth-tellers are isolated, smeared and pursued.

    Momentous change almost always begins with the courage of people taking back their own lives against the odds. There is no other way now. Direct action. Civil disobedience. Unerring. Read Percy Shelley – “Ye are many; they are few”. And do it.

  153. Sofia Kibo Noh

    27 Jul, 2013 - 8:09 am

    @Flaming. 7 57am

    “Should he even be a priest…?”

    Of course he should. I’ll let Dave Allen explain.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u6XXOELs_s

  154. Today Bradley Manning will probably be sentenced to life-imprisonment by a US military court for telling the truth. That being the case we must never stop campaigning for his release. One day he will be free. He will be awarded the Nobel Prize for Peace among the other awards he has won. Even when things seem desperate we must never despair.

    Success! Sometimes writing in support of a fellow-writer, coupled with other support from charities and the free press, can help liberate those illegally imprisoned. It is heartening when this happens. My article in News Junkie Post in early June may have helped. But the good news is Shaye is now free.

    http://newsjunkiepost.com/2013/06/04/the-united-states-of-extra-judicial-murder-and-imprisonment/

  155. I should have written Shaye is out of prison rather than free. He still cannot leave Yemen.

  156. Sofia Kibo Noh

    27 Jul, 2013 - 8:30 am

    Masque of Anarchy.
    Percy Shelley

    Stand ye calm and resolute,
    Like a forest close and mute,
    With folded arms and looks which are
    Weapons of unvanquished war.

    And if then the tyrants dare,
    Let them ride among you there,
    Slash, and stab, and maim and hew,
    What they like, that let them do.

    With folded arms and steady eyes,
    And little fear, and less surprise
    Look upon them as they slay
    Till their rage has died away

    Then they will return with shame
    To the place from which they came,
    And the blood thus shed will speak
    In hot blushes on their cheek.

    Rise like Lions after slumber
    In unvanquishable number,
    Shake your chains to earth like dew
    Which in sleep had fallen on you-
    Ye are many — they are few

    Men of England, heirs of Glory,
    Heroes of unwritten story,
    Nurslings of one mighty Mother,
    Hopes of her, and one another;

    What is Freedom? Ye can tell
    That which Slavery is too well,
    For its very name has grown
    To an echo of your own

    Let a vast assembly be,
    And with great solemnity
    Declare with measured words, that ye
    Are, as God has made ye, free!

    The old laws of England–they
    Whose reverend heads with age are grey,
    Children of a wiser day;
    And whose solemn voice must be
    Thine own echo–Liberty!

    Rise like Lions after slumber
    In unvanquishable number,
    Shake your chains to earth like dew
    Which in sleep had fallen on you-
    Ye are many — they are few

  157. Flaming June

    27 Jul, 2013 - 8:40 am

    Some voyeuristic thugs and bullies reside within the Notts police force.

    Nottinghamshire officers disciplined after woman’s top removed

    Related Stories
    Misconduct case over pregnant arrest

    Three police officers who stripped a “vulnerable” pregnant woman naked to the waist have been disciplined.

    Lynnette Wallace was left semi-naked for 13 minutes and also put in handcuffs for 11 hours.
    /..
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-23472511#

  158. I think the Masque of Anarchy, which contains the lines “I met murder on the way, he wore a masque like Castlereagh . . .”, is one of the poems which helped get Shelley sent down from Oxford. It is one of my favourite poems. Ironically the university now has a statue of Shelley (naked of course) to commemorate him having studied there, which either demonstrates an advancement in academic tolerance or extreme cynicism.

    http://spenceralley.blogspot.co.uk/2010/05/shelley-memorial.html

    We are many – they are few. Just remember that. Let’s bring down the Bilderbergers!

  159. Flaming June

    27 Jul, 2013 - 8:52 am

    Ah thanks Sofia. Dear Dave Allen. I loved his dry wit and the sketches were so imaginative and at the time, in the late 60s and early 70s, his anti-clerical and anti-establishment act was quite radical and outrageous.

    I like the Bishop’s crozier in this YT. :)

    Sadly I did not know that he died aged 68 in 2005.
    He was lovely. RIP.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Allen_(comedian)

  160. Flaming June

    27 Jul, 2013 - 9:18 am

    From Hidari on Medialens

    “UK PM David Cameron and Claire Perry say that they plan on forcing Britain’s ISPs to have a “default-on” censorship app for every connection in the UK. But the UK Open Rights Group have been talking with whistleblowers from the ISPs that have met with the government’s censorship grandees, and they report that the censorware will come equipped to block an enormous swath of legal Internet content, and unless you untick the boxes, this will all be censored for your Internet connection:

    Do you want to block

    ☑ pornography
    ☑ violent material
    extremist and terrorist related content
    ☑ anorexia and eating disorder websites
    ☑ suicide related websites
    ☑ alcohol
    ☑ smoking
    web forums
    ☑ esoteric material
    ☑ web blocking circumvention tools”

    http://boingboing.net/2013/07/26/uk-censorwall-will-also-block.html

  161. When dark shadows cloud the sky a ray of hope can break through. Manning the 2013 Peace Prize winner. Congratulations to him.

    http://www.uspeacememorial.org/PEACEPRIZE.htm

  162. Sofia Kibo Noh

    27 Jul, 2013 - 9:21 am

    @Flaming. 8 52am

    Yes he was lovely. Too good to shine in his home country, controlled as it was at the time by clerics. Ironic that he was finally brought down by using one rude word.

    @Jon.

    Yes. Let’s!Let’s!

    http://www.healthyskepticism.org/files/soapbox/peter/bigfishlittlefish.gif

  163. Winning the Peace Memorial Prize is a great demonstration of “We are many – they are few”.

  164. Flaming June

    27 Jul, 2013 - 9:25 am

    Egypt Bans Gaza Fishermen From Its Waters

    NEWS / Posted by Friends of Al-Aqsa / Friday, 26th July, 2013 http://foa.org.uk/news/egypt-bans-gaza-fishermen–from-its-waters

    The head of the Palestinian Syndicate of Fishermen in Gaza, Nizar Ayesh, said that his organization was not officially informed that Gaza fishermen were no longer allowed to sail in the Egyptian waters.

    “Egyptian gunboats always watched the borders between Gaza and Egypt, yet never banned any Palestinian boat from sailing to Egypt before last week,” Ayesh told Al-Monitor in an interview at the seaport on July 25.

    Darweesh al-Assi, 43, a fisherman for more than 35 years, said that he always fished in the Egyptian waters before he heard from his colleagues that it was no longer permitted.
    [..]
    Ayesh explained, “Gaza fishermen escape the Israeli violations and the restricted zone to the Egyptian open zone, but now their space is totally besieged.”

    In addition to limited fishing zones, Gaza’s fishermen are also suffering from a lack of fuel after the Egyptian military demolished many smuggling tunnels stretching under the borders between the Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula.

    ~~

    UN and world bodies, Quartet Envoy, John Kerry, William Hague – silence.

  165. The police who ‘mishandled’ Ms. Wallace have obviously no idea of the sanctity of life, what pregnant women go through, or what normal public decency would demand in such a situation.

    Instead they displayed gang culture, rude bad manners, a surprising lack of humanitarian knowledge as well a predilection to overreact and use violent means on an unborn.

    Those who question that a foetus feels the stress and hears the shouts of its aggrieved and sobbing mother, please consult someone about it.

    I question police education and the selection process, somewhere within it, there is a moral override being implanted in these young malleable minds, anybody who does not think critically is accepted, utter loyalty is demanded regardless and ‘UEBER ALLES’, hail to the political party of the day, we will protect those who extend out franchises and licks the arse of our police federation.

  166. Defense’s closing arguments in Bradley Manning trial

    https://pressfreedomfoundation.org/sites/default/files/072613amsession_F.pdf

  167. From the defence summary posted by Dreolin at 9.34 am.

    “He wanted the information, he believed that it would have impact on entire world. And the Government says, entire world, that includes the enemy.”

    The United States has difficulty in understanding that the entire world, with one or two exceptions, sees it as ‘the enemy’ although little is likely to change the sentence. These things are rarely settled in court when there is no jury.

  168. Flaming June, these categories all fit into one,i.e. News, why the heck can we not opt out of news channels?

    Is it because its filtered and purified for us, content displayed is not what’s in the tin, fortuitously prattled and smothered with their own excretions.

    Can’t think why there’s no opt out for news channels. I have not looked at a BBC site, sorry those who still proffer their propaganda, for over a year now and it feels better already.

    The electronic control tools are now so sophisticated and in almost every gadget form car, TV to phone, that I expect a movement away from it, something authorities would hate.
    Imagine all those posting here, disbanding their cell phones after making explicit noises to go somewhere or other. If all of us not paying a TV license because we have junked our sets in disgust at their blatant bias, self centred navel gazing, and corporate/political arse licking use of OUR BBC, basically if we are ‘uncontrollable’ or traceable by electronic means, that would worry them tremendously, especially if it is an exponentially growing number of us.

    Because everything they do is about control and management of news trivia and traditionalist rigmarole/mania, as we have seen during the last five days.

    Control freaks can’t stand not knowing what we do.

  169. “A race to generate Jews, courtesy of the Israeli government”

    ‘For the past few weeks, radio spots have been urging Israel’s non-Jewish citizens to register for an accelerated conversion process.’

    “Under the influence of Habayit Hayehudi, the government has launched a race to generate Jews. MK Ayelet Shaked likes to talk about the country’s unique character as a type of armor, but what she’s really getting at is protective, human armor with a Jewish hue, which will shield her against all those who are not like her.

    “All this racism is compressed into a two-minute public-service ad, which is supposedly light and positive but in truth embodies the essence of everything that’s rotten about the government’s priorities. The rot is not achievable per se, since it was already achieved long ago. Now it is also being celebrated.”

    http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/magazine/1.537865

  170. “US-Australian military exercise rehearses for war against China”

    http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/07/27/tali-j27.html

  171. Hi Kempe,

    Unfortunately the case for Assange being the victim of a US conspiracy comes unstuck when you notice that the release of the American diplomatic cables didn’t start until the 28th Novemeber 2010; eight days after the arrest warrant was issued and nearly 3 months after the rape complaints were first made.

    I’m not sure the 20th November 2010 date you suggest for the warrant vis a vis Cablegate publication quite pans out. IIRC, the Swedish domestic warrant was put before the Stockholm District Court (without informing Assange’s Swedish defence lawyers) on 18 November, that was appealed to the SVEA Court on 24 November, failed there and the Swedish Supreme Court refused to hear a further appeal on 26 November. The international European Arrest Warrant was issued on 27 November, two days before the start of Cablegate. (This was, in fact, sent back by the British SOCA unit because it was invalid as it correctly stated Assange was sought for questioning. A second EAW with a more – how to put this? – naunced wording was issued on 6 December.

    But doesn’t your whole argument fall apart by considering that the US State Department had been aware for many months – from at least the point where Adrian Lamo handed over his chatlogs with Bradley Manning in May 2010 – of exactly what Wikileaks had in their possession and were likely to publish soon?

    But what about Barack Obama’s public announcement on 10 August – the day before Assange even travelled to Sweden – that Britain, Germany, Australia and other allied Western governments should open criminal investigations into Julian Assange and limit his travel?

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/08/10/a-western-crackdown-on-wikileaks.html

    You do realise, don’t you, that Assange was under Swedish intelligence surveillance the entire six weeks or so he was in Sweden?

  172. “What commitments has the Labor government made to US war plans?”

    http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/07/25/inte-j25.html

  173. Komodo, 8.49pm yesterday

    For breaking no law, but merely for uttering an opinion.

    Something’s badly wrong there.

    I was reminded yesterday of the case of Tarek Mehanna, the 29 yr old US pharmacist sentenced to 17 years as a terrorist for “material support” by merely providing translations of texts on jihadist websites. Glenn Greenwald published Mehanna’s sentencing statement, read to the court just after that sentence was handed down. A powerful and moving statement on what free speech means in the Land of the Free nowadays:

    http://www.salon.com/2012/04/13/the_real_criminals_in_the_tarek_mehanna_case/

  174. Hullo Craig,

    May I summarise things thus?

    In Russia one may not criticise Putin because Putin rules Russia.

    Yes? Might we declare that inarguable? Okay then, what of the following?

    In Britain one may not criticise Israel because…

    Rather an easy solve I’m afraid but that’s ipso facto for you.

  175. Ben Franklin, yesterday 4.26pm

    But, the way the military has treated the journalists covering this story, I’m not sure of Judge Lind’s autonomy.

    An even more telling sign of that is the fact she’s already been given a promotion – to the same court where Manning’s appeal will be heard:

    “Schenck said Lind has already been informed that she will take up a new position, as a judge on the U.S. Army Court of Criminal Appeals, when the Manning trial ends.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/more-than-bradley-mannings-fate-lies-with-judge-denise-lind-in-case-about-leaking-info/2013/07/24/fb546d14-f496-11e2-aa2e-4088616498b4_story_1.html

  176. Nevermind what is the word on that unfortunate environmental protester who was injured in Norfolk?

  177. Doug Scorgie, 11.57pm

    That means the Main Stream Media is the enemy.

    and

    Of course the alternative to the BBC is a private corporation like Fox TV but whatever model of funding, the state would hold the upper hand as with the so called “free press”.

    You may be interested in this. It’s a speech given yesterday by Julian Assange to the Australian Splendour in the Grass festival. In it, he outlines an interesting idea for increasing the plurality of alternative voices and other forms of freedom of speech/expression, music, etc to combat the malign effects of the “media-ocracy” – namely, a Content Fund similar to an author royalties scheme based on stats of the 100,000 most-loaned titles from public lending libraries. I know nothing of how that original scheme works in Australia, so can’t comment on it, but I thought the most interesting aspect of the idea was that Assange said this Content Fund would be funded from the Defence budget. He obviously has some pretty radical ideas about how one builds “a strong and independent military” – something he’s also called for in the Australian context.

    Worth a listen:

    http://vimeo.com/70982502

  178. Jonathan Cook (who lives in Nazareth) on medialens on his account of his travels across the US and how he was treated by security at airports.

    Jonathan Cook comments on the US security and surveillance state
    Posted by The Editors on July 27, 2013, 9:21 am

    Via Facebook:

    The extent to which the US has become a security and surveillance state was illustrated to me that last time I travelled there, a few years back on a book tour.

    I had 10 internal flights to make over the course of 2 weeks. When I was pulled out of line and taken for “extra security checks” on the first flight, I was told by the official that I was unlucky because such checks were entirely random. Except I kept being unlucky. In fact, I got extra attention on nine of my 10 flights – and I suspect that the occasion I wasn’t subjected to the extra checks was simply an oversight. I noticed that I had a large red “S” scrawled on my flight stub, as I did on the others. Presumably the security people missed it.

    I am reminded of this by a story showing that the FBI has had under surveillance the website anti-war.com, a place I have published on many occasions, for more than a decade.

    /..
    http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1374913298.html

    ~~~~
    Antiwar.com Under Surveillance

    The FBI doesn’t suspect any crime but monitors the site anyway—and this fits a pattern of targeting journalists who probe state secrets
    By Kelley Vlahos • July 25, 2013 http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/antiwar-com-under-surveillance/

  179. Arbed at 10.30 “You do realise, don’t you, that Assange was under Swedish intelligence surveillance the entire six weeks or so he was in Sweden?”

    I would be very surprised if Anna Ardin’s flat was not bugged with cameras from the day he arrived, especially with her known connections to various Swedish embassies. It has always puzzled me why she was not there to meet one of the “coolest” people in the world, and why she could not postpone a visit to her family in order to see Assange. The whole honey-trap was buzzing.

  180. I wondered how Tristan Anderson was. He was shot in the head by an Israeli tear gas canister in 2009 whilst on a protest in Ni’lin. Alison Weir reports on the NYT piece.

    Weekend Edition July 26-28, 2013
    Myra Noveck & the New York Times:

    Another Journalist with Children in the Israeli Military

    by ALISON WEIR
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/07/26/another-journalist-with-children-in-the-israeli-military/

    Jonathan Cook drew attention on his Facebook page to the above article. He also writes about Michael Hastings’ unusual death.
    https://www.facebook.com/Jonathan.Cook.journalist?hc_location=timeline

  181. Flaming June, thanks for posting the two links in your last regarding the US secret services surveillance of anti-war. It is par for the course. What governments fear most is that good journalists will expose their lies and corruption and confirms the old adage:

    The pen is mightier than the sword.

  182. John Goss says:

    “You do realise, don’t you, that Assange was under Swedish intelligence surveillance the entire six weeks or so he was in Sweden?”

    John do you have any links to articles on this issue? This puts an entirely different complexion on the whole stinking affair. The notion that Anna Ardin later complained could indicate that Assange did not co-operate once the trap was sprung on him, and Ardin’s complaint followed soon after.

    Also I have always had a nagging doubt that Assange could be an SIS asset after his arrest for Nortel hacking. Any ideas to prove, or disprove such a notion?

  183. @ Nevermind.

    Ideal would it not be too be able to purchase radio with “news opt out”.

    I for one would pleasantly have in the earshot of sympathetic minds.

    Stupidity could raise many a question new’s night, vulnerbility is present all the same.

    @ Jon Goss

    Isn’t it funny a bear likes honey;
    Buzz Buzz Buzz;
    I wonder why he does.

    If Bears were bees they would build there hives at the bottom of trees

    And if bees were bears they wouldn’t need to climb all those stairs.

  184. Passerby, I don’t know where Arbed gets all his information from but it is usually accurate.

    Most security services set up profit-making companies. Public relations companies are a favourite because the agents within them have access to the highest level of government and the most influential people. Prime is the biggest in Stockholm.

    No ideas about your ‘nagging doubt’ but seems very unlikely he was ever an SIS asset. When he hacked into Nordex he was too young to be an asset of any country.

  185. George Quinn says:
    July 24, 2013 at 17:29

    lucy wangari decourcy says:
    July 27, 2013 at 12:42

    http://dpac.uk.net/2013/05/hardship-paymentsbudgeting-loans-and-short-term-advances/#comment-18064

  186. My favourite picture from the International Day of Action (today) for Bradley Manning:

    https://twitter.com/jaraparilla/status/360730052813537281/photo/1

  187. John Goss says,

    When he hacked into Nordex he was too young to be an asset of any country.

    John my fault, for not being more specific. After Assange was arrested, charged and tried, he was given a $2100 (Australian) fine. Although judge indicated that he could have been jailed for ten years, however due to coming from a broken home background he was only fined. Later he helped the police. Although throughout he has plausible explanations, but given the extent of the duplicitous, cunning, crooked modus operandi of the SIS there could also be a case of Assange being an asset.

  188. Passerby, please provide independent evidence that supports any hypothesis that Assange is someone’s bitch. Otherwise it’s just dreamy speculation with zero analytical value.

  189. Flaming June

    27 Jul, 2013 - 2:16 pm

    Those in Cambridgeshire and Peterborough needing NHS care at the end of their lives will be receiving it from the likes of Branson’s Virgin Care, Serco or Circle Health!

    NHS privatisation fears deepen over £1bn deal

    Biggest health contract yet – for services including end-of-life care – is condemned by Labour as ‘audacious sell-off’

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/jul/26/nhs-privatisation-fears-deepen-deal

    Footnote of the article:The slice of the NHS’s £100bn a year budget going to non-NHS providers has risen from £5.6bn in 2006-07 to an estimated £8.7bn by 2011-12, according to a recent analysis by the Institute of Fiscal Studies and Nuffield Trust health think tank.

  190. Passerby, I doubt it, although all things are virtually possible. He probably had to help the police as a kind of plea-bargain. I doubt Gary McKinnon has had a holiday since he was saved from extradition. If that makes him an asset then I guess he is. But let’s face it Assange has released documents into the public domain that would not have allowed for his freedom if he had been an asset of the secret services. I’ve noticed others have speculated about him being an agent but neither Assange nor the intelligence services have claimed he ever was an agent – unlike say, Edward Snowden. Why hide the fact. Andrea Davison doesn’t and she was once in exactly the same position Assange is in now but she has never denied working for MI5/6.

  191. Someone says;

    lucy wangari decourcy says:
    July 27, 2013 at 12:42

    Jus one more thing is please can you consider me because I didn’t want to go through this because I never claimed benefit before but this is my first benefit but to much for me as I didn’t want it to happen I was going to work and had accident on 16 jan 2013 and im still having too much pain my shoulder so when I don’t eat im not strong and looking for job I got to go to libraly please is just cant understand why I cant get at least some money to make me eat and do some things. I have been in advise bureau but they couldn’t do nothing please advise me where and what to do. Thanks for your consideration

    It is the most disgusting situation in which the banksters get their gambling debts transferred onto the nation’s balance sheet, whilst we cannot feed the desperate people who are chasing the imaginary jobs in the imaginary flourishing economy.

    We are all Lucy! Only lagging behind her by a week in funds. The plutocrats’ overseers are drunk on their achievements; less in budgets for the social security, and for the NHS, they are going to start introduction of charging for the GP visits, first it was the “illegal immigrants” who had to pay because they were the cause, and now we all need to pitch in and to keep our services going!!

  192. Passerby, 12.43pm

    First, can I point out that I don’t 100% endorse John’s view that it’s a honey-trap, or at least that it was one from the very start. Although that is a distinct possibility, it’s very far from being proven. My comment was merely meant to show that the Swedish intelligence services were poised to take advantage of events pretty much immediately once they were in train.

    In any case, if it was a honeytrap all along, it is far more likely to come from Sofia Wilen than from Anna Ardin. Trust me on that.

    (Fun fact: Did you know that Enkoping, scene of the most serious allegation against Assange – the “half-awake” condomless sex incident – and home to Sofia Wilen, is also the home of the Swedish military’s PSYOPS headquarters? http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enköping#Milit.C3.A4rstaden – apparently, it’s about a 5-minute walk from her flat. Not many people know that, as Alfie would say…)

    Fun facts aside, the most obvious evidence that Assange was under surveillance during his time in Sweden comes from a combination of what Swedish journalist Johannes Wahlstrom says in his police witness statement about events after the 14 August seminar where Assange first met Sofia Wilen and the fact that the Expressen newspaper reported the following day details of Assange’s itinerary on that afternoon which only Assange and Sofia Wilen knew (ie. not even Wahlstrom knew where Sofia Wilen worked at the time when they discussed what Assange would do next when the three of them were alone together following the after-seminar lunch). Details here:

    http://rixstep.com/2/20120806,00.shtml

    Johannes Wahlstrom’s statement: http://rixstep.com/1/20110201,00.shtml

    So, where did Expressen get these facts they couldn’t possibly have known? Who was their source? Remember, this publication is two days before even the alleged incident, let alone it’s reporting to police three days later.

  193. John Goss syas,

    Why hide the fact. Andrea Davison doesn’t and she was once in exactly the same position Assange is in now but she has never denied working for MI5/6.

    You have a point there, however as you have added; He probably had to help the police as a kind of plea-bargain there lies the niggle. further, the wikileaks saga of the document release, and Assange getting involved with famous five (Guardian, et al) to a large degree forwarded the agenda of the neo liberal hacks. As with their early day releases, which had literally nothing other than bashing the usual suspects and enemies!

    Fact is as you point out, all things are possible, and given that we must remain vigilant and not to fall into the trap of personality cults. There lies the leverage for derailing any quest for the truth.

    Finally, I often wonder; has anyone ever read the rest of the documents released with the famous accidental publication of the passwords?

    _ – - – _

    Jemand says;

    please provide independent evidence that supports any hypothesis that Assange is someone’s bitch. Otherwise it’s just dreamy speculation with zero analytical value.

    I fully appreciate such an eventuality being in such an august company as yourself! Incidentally it a good habit to develop; reading the comments as they are, and not read into them!

  194. Arbed says;

    I don’t 100% endorse John’s view that it’s a honey-trap, or at least that it was one from the very start. Although that is a distinct possibility, it’s very far from being proven. My comment was merely meant to show that the Swedish intelligence services were poised to take advantage of events pretty much immediately once they were in train.

    I can subscribe to this notion, as ever when someone is down is the best time to kick them in the head, and given the spooks remit they would relish such an event.

    However, due to my lack of expert knowledge on this subject (and obviously many others too) I will accept your version of events readily, up until such a time that a convincing case to the contrary was forwarded by some other source. Thanks for clarification.

  195. .. andd thee attack on freea speeach …
    And i’ll say wot i fucking like you white nigger zionizt Cunts!

  196. I dont99‰ endorse j’$ viewz that… bla dee bblue

  197. Wats al thought about?!

  198. And james joyce and william blake attheir most ’0bscure’ were too ‘$ubjective’ to be taken ‘$eriously’ – nest poos?!

  199. Passerby, 12.43pm

    When I say “trust me on that” about Sofia Wilen rather than Ardin being the true source of any possible honeytrap, I am not, of course, relying on the proximity of her home to the Enkoping PSYOPS headquarters. That would be getting into conspiracy theory territory and I’m not interested in going there.

    No, what I’m talking about is the fact that Sofia Wilen at first told the police that Assange damaged a condom (similar to Ardin’s allegation, but the point is that Sofia was the first one to make this allegation, then she changed her story to the one we’ve all heard about – only wanting to ask advice about HIV testing because she “woke up” to unprotected sex). This is corroborated in three places in the evidence already in the public domain:

    1. Physical evidence in the form of a fragment of condom was obtained from Sofia Wilen and submitted to the forensics lab. Tests found that it had been deliberately ripped and that it had DNA “from a man” which matched DNA on swabs taken from her. http://assangeinswedenbook.com/2013/07/01/the-lab-results/

    2. A senior police investigator involved in the case from Day 1 noted the following on the forensic report:

    “Complainant 1 [Wilén] did not notice that a condom broke as it was dark in the room, and when the suspect put on the condom, she heard a noise as if he were pulling on a balloon. The bit of condom was found under the bed, under the part of the bed where the suspect was lying when he put on the condom.”

    which is clearly not the same story as the dozing-then-waking incident after breakfast at 9am, as told in Wilen’s formal statement. NB. The police investigator has NOT got the two women mixed up here. He does mean Wilen, not Ardin.

    3. That Sofia Wilen had initially told police that Assange had deliberately damaged a condom is corroborated by a phone call Anna Ardin made to Swedish journalist Donald Bostrum immediately after leaving the police station on 20 August 2010. This is before she had given her own statement (the following day) and before she knows that Wilen has told a completely different story to the second police officer she spoke to, who took her formal statement. Here’s the relevant bit from Bostrum’s statement:

    And then Anna rings again and says “now we’ve been with the police and Sofia told her story and, yeah because I sat there so I added a comment of my own.” This is very ‘word for word’ and as I remember her telling me. Uh, aha I say, and what was that comment? Yeah, that comment was that “I think Sofia is telling the truth because I experienced something similar” Anna says then. And then she told me that bit about the condom then, “so that’s why I think it’s true.” And I don’t know anything about police technicalities but then Anna says, “because we suddenly were two women who had a statement about, about the same man so it became a crime against the state and so it became a complaint even though we didn’t file a complaint.”

    I’ve added quote mark and some formatting so you can see exactly what Ardin was explaining to Donald Bostrum. She breaks off mid-sentence in quoting the single sentence she interjected to back up what police are hearing from Sofia Wilen, to explain to Donald that she’s referring to what she also thinks was an act of deliberate condom sabotage when she slept with Assange. She likely did exactly the same – broke off mid-sentence to explain what exactly she thought was “true” – when at the police station. She also explains to Bostrum that this was the KEY statement which turned everything into a formal complaint, resulting less than a half-hour later in the issuing of an arrest warrant for “double rape”. Bostrum’s statement: http://rixstep.com/1/20110202,04.shtml

    Two women turning up at a police station with the same story of “deliberately sabotaged” condoms? And it’s the woman who did all the instigating (Sofia contacted Ardin out of the blue, visited two hospital rape clinics by herself, told Assange “no, we’re not going to police” an hour before she did in fact do just that, etc, etc) who’s the one who then changes her story? Yeah, if it was a honeytrap all along, then it’s Ms Wilen’s honeytrap. No question.

    We have a special thread on the whole case, if you’re interested in more detail:
    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/09/why-i-am-convinced-that-anna-ardin-is-a-liar/comment-page-8/#comments

  200. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    27 Jul, 2013 - 3:45 pm

    Nobody, at 10h56, sets us this puzzle :

    “In Russia one may not criticise Putin because Putin rules Russia.

    Yes? Might we declare that inarguable? Okay then, what of the following?

    In Britain one may not criticise Israel because…”
    ________________

    I’m all a-quiver with curiosity!

    Because of whom /what?

    Spit it out, you old tease!

  201. Flaming June

    27 Jul, 2013 - 3:55 pm

    Extra info on Grant Shapps/Michael Green helpfully provided by the JC’s Martin Bright who has been at the BBC World Service, Observer/Guardian, the Spectator and the New Statesman. He is now the JC’s political editor.

    Conservative party chairman who is ‘a Brit who happens to be Jewish’
    Martin Bright, October 4, 2012
    http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/84669/conservative-party-chairman-who-a-brit-who-happens-be-jewish%E2%80%99

  202. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    27 Jul, 2013 - 3:59 pm

    @ Fred (00h34) :

    “Or a bit like saying for example the infant mortality rate in Palestine isn’t appalling because the infant mortality rate in Ethiopia is as bad.”
    _________________

    Not a good analogy, Fred, unless it was meant to demonstrate that you’re a chump.

    The infant mortality rate in Palestine (16 point something) is not good The infant mortality in Ethiopia, a country nobody’s mentioned yet and where, as far as I know, the evil Zionists play no rôle (6O something) is appalling.

  203. Dear Jon,

    I’d be interested if Pt’s IP address gives an indication where his/her incoherent babble hails from:

    I dont99‰ endorse j’$ viewz that… bla dee bblue

    seems suspiciously like an attempt at “forum sliding”

    A Gentleperson’s guide to forum spies:
    http://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm

    (if you agree, please don’t remove them – I’m happy with top of page 2 for my latest comment :) )

  204. Flaming June

    27 Jul, 2013 - 4:05 pm

    Further to Passerby’s post http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/07/navalny-ward-assange-snowden-and-the-attack-on-free-speech/#comment-420602

    this is another person who couldn’t take any more earlier this week.

    ‘I’m sick of all this s**t’: Middle-aged man in despair about bedroom tax cuts his own throat in middle of benefits advice office

    Dragged a blade from his ear down to his throat on each side of his neck
    Gory outburst happened at Halton Direct Link in Halton Lea shopping centre
    Cheshire police officers have spoken to the man about his well-being
    Middle-aged man suffered minor injuries in gory outburst

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2379984/Bedroom-tax-Man-slits-throat-benefits-advice-office-protest.html

  205. “Brighton man faces jail for calling Hove MP Mike Weatherley ‘coward’”

    http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/10572994.Brighton_man_faces_jail_for_calling_Hove_MP_Mike_Weatherley__coward_/?ref=twtrec

  206. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    27 Jul, 2013 - 4:24 pm

    The Frequent Poster (16h05) has done us a service by giving a good example of how certain newspapers use titles which sensationalize the articles which follow.

    In this example, the title includes the words “slits throat”, which might give the impression of someone killing himself in this fashion as a protest against the so-called bedroom tax.

    Visions of Buddist monks burning themselves to death during the Vietname war. Or Jan Palach in Prague in 1968 (yep, under those lovely Communists!).

    But read further, and what do we learn? minor injuries apparently not requiring hospitalization, lots of blood, no artery cut, man well enough to be spoken to by staff at the centre and police. Anticlimax!

    These popular papers really know how to build up the suspense only to let you down with a bump.

    I really don’t know why people bother to read them.

  207. “32 die a week after failing test for new incapacity benefit”

    http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/investigations/2012/04/32-die-a-week-after-failing-in.html

  208. Flaming June

    27 Jul, 2013 - 4:49 pm

    The milk of human kindness is overflowing at 4.24pm above.

  209. Who was it who said “But I never thought i’d meet the original cow.”?

    Keep the revolution in good humour!

  210. @Flaming June. Did you mean this chappy,
    http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/norfolk_man_speaks_of_his_lucky_escape_after_breaking_neck_following_waterfall_slip_1_2301527

    or the one which will have to appear at the police station on the 29th., waiting to be charged for ….?I don’t know really, they are ganging up on him I think as there are no witnesses. But the hospital took photos of his injuries and they point to a certain view as to how his conditions have occurred.

    I don’t want to say much more, as much as that he’s ok now, but very needy and disorganised, he produced a lot of platelets which somehow send his heart into a flutter and he had a light heart attack.

    I shall keep you informed as to what will happen.

    and for today’s mundane Speculatius, the Canaries have signed a Scotsman from Celtic, Gary Hooper, their top scorer from last year….
    A much better bet than predicting the name of a newborn might be a punt on Norwich City, they are motivated and could very well end up playing in Europe at the end of next season.

    Do it now for good odds.

  211. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    27 Jul, 2013 - 6:49 pm

    The Frequent Poster (at 16h24) cannot bring herself to mention my name, preferring to use the time of my comment instead.

    Reminds one a little of referring to the “State of Israel” as the “Zionist entity”, doesn’t it.

  212. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    27 Jul, 2013 - 7:06 pm

    @ Someone (16h13)

    If the facts are exactly as stated in the report you quote from the Brighton Argus, then bringing a charge of “using threatening/abusive/insulting words/behaviour to cause harrassment/alarm/distress” against Mr Alex Cline for calling local MP Mike Weatherley a “coward” does indeed seem to constitute an absurd, even sinister, misuse of the law.

    I say “exactly as stated in the report” so as not to exclude the possibility that Mr Cline either repeated the words enough as to be considered to be attempting to disrupt the meeting, or accompanied them with a few choice adjectives of an obscene character, or acccompanied them with physical action or actions again intended to disrupt the meeting, or indeed any combination of the above. Were any or all of the above to have been the case, then the charge of course would become somewhat less absurd, even entirely reasonable.

    Anyway : as Someone is perhaps someone local, I should be interested to follow up on this case and keep us informed; the Brighton Argus will presumably be reporting on the outcome and so it would be helpful if Someone could keep an eye on it and give us more info on exactly what the charges were, what came out in court and whether Mr Cline was eventually convicted or not.

    Thanks in advance.

    *********************

    La vita è bella, life is good! (follow up is important)

  213. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    27 Jul, 2013 - 7:23 pm

    More on Navalny; http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21582316-kremlins-erratic-behaviour-navalny-case-reveals-split-navalny-power-game

    “The Kremlin’s erratic behaviour is also a sign of a growing split within the ruling Russian elite between siloviki, a powerful faction comprising former and present security servicemen, who were keen to lock up Mr Navalny immediately (and at first gained the upper hand), and civilians in the presidential entourage, including Sergei Sobyanin, the Kremlin-appointed mayor of Moscow, who is said to have persuaded Mr Putin to release Mr Navalny from jail.”

    I would like to be a fly on the wall, first at White House briefings, then at the Kremlin.

    There are growing numbers within both governments who are slowly arising from the Security Hypnosis of Nationalism uber alles. At least that’s my naive hope

  214. The criminalisation of young people with prospects in life, by taking much of their time up with judicial rigmarole and bourgeois police zeal, eager to perform to the political minority of the Government of the day. Those living in Brighton will most likely get court dates in Lancashire.
    Fracking is being politically policed on behalf of biased orders from above, Osborne’s idea of providing funds for the next pre election tax cuts must not be stopped by locals or those who object to it anywhere. This issue is pursued with even more zeal as the drive to cut a dual carriageway through Twyford Down.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/jul/27/twelve-charged-sussex-fracking-protests

  215. Mr goss

    Resisting in peices (spelling?$)

    Helen Thomas Upi

    An usually ‘pregnant’ old school mainstream medium journo#!

    Ptss

  216. Arbed
    ‘Forum sliding’
    What’s all that about?
    Pt

  217. Helen Thomas
    Upi rip
    Well noted

    But cud she get away with it in the mainstream these days (if she was not a 90 something old fart, soon to die)?

  218. Pt
    People I’ve upset and petty bureaucrats call me Mr Goss.

    If it’s dyslogia as a fellow-sufferer I can empathise.

    http://exiledonline.com/the-deep-dark-secret-of-dyslogia/

  219. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    27 Jul, 2013 - 8:18 pm

    John Goss, you dry wit you. If you are a sufferer, you hide it well. Your filter must be cleaned daily.

  220. Dear jon / dr dicklogia
    I don’t know you. Nor you me.
    No disrespect intended. Helen t. In her old upi fashioned way was a significant journo. So perhaps ru.
    Pt x

  221. The attack on free speech
    Ht upi
    Spent most of her life in The relatively free usa mainstream, ..
    Then she happened to mention That ..,

  222. “British Muslims donate more to charity”

    “The survey commissioned by the London-based polling agency, ICM, shows an estimated 280,000 Muslims in the UK give more money annually to charity than Jews, Christians, Hindus and Sikhs.”

    http://rinf.com/alt-news/breaking-news/british-muslims-donate-more-to-charity/53723/

  223. “A previous article discussed Thatcherism. It’s Chicago School fundamentalism writ large. It’s financial terrorism. It’s hugely exploitative.”

    “It’s forced-fed austerity. It’s corporate welfare. It’s mass privatizations. It benefits business and society’s wealthy. It’s government of, by, and for privileged elites alone.”

    http://rinf.com/alt-news/breaking-news/escalated-thatcherism-in-britain/53719/

  224. Sofia Kibo Noh

    27 Jul, 2013 - 10:11 pm

    @Someone. 9 41pm

    Thanks. A few lines from your link here.

    The ICM survey showed that Muslims say they donate about $567 per person per year, with Jews (also numbering around 280,000 in the U.K.) A in second place, with $412 per person annually. A Christians gave considerably less – just over $300 per person, and atheists were at the bottom of the list, with $177 donated.

    “The mutual-aid tendency in man has so remote an origin, and is so deeply interwoven with all the past evolution of the human race, that is has been maintained by mankind up to the present time, notwithstanding all vicissitudes of history.”
    ― Pyotr Kropotkin(1842 – 1921), Mutual Aid

  225. Sofia Kibo Noh

    27 Jul, 2013 - 10:20 pm

    Sorry. Re last post.

    I did’nt make it very clear. The Kropotkyn quote was my comment on the theme of mutual aid.

    Here was a man who, though born a prince, walked the talk of human rights. So maybe there’s some hope for the royal baby.

  226. Not the Royal Baby but the Refugee Baby from Syria! Meet 10 days old Fayez born in a tent in Atmeh camp: pic.twitter.com/xVaWsuMS8E

  227. Thanks Dreoilin, apart from its own beauty, it’ll give distraction to our little juvenile Sofia who seems so obsessed about how the Royal baby will turn out.

    Surprisingly she doesn’t seem to acknowledge through her prism of Buddhism that this baby must have done great good in previous lives to now be born with (more than) a silver spoon in his mouth. Perhaps she’ll now ‘let it be’.

  228. Why is it taking Downing Street longer to censor Detainee Inquiry interim report than it took to write?

    Spy Blog has re-submitted our FOIA Request which was refused over 6 months ago, on the grounds of imminent publication.

    Cabinet Office – 6 F Off IA exemptions not to publish Detainee (Torture) Inquiry Interim Report requested back in December 2012..

    Still no Detainee (Torture) Inquiry interim report over a year after submission to Downing Street

    The process of clearing the report for publication has taken longer than envisaged, but it is important for the Government to be able to publish as full an accounting of the Inquiry’s work as possible, without compromising national security and consistent with its legal obligations. Discussions with the Inquiry about clearing the report for publication are nearing a conclusion and it is hoped that the Government will be in a position to publish as full a version of their report as possible in the autumn, although no date has been set.

    ” in the autumn, although no date has been set.”

    It is now over 3 years since Prime Minister David Cameron announced the the setting up of Detainee Inquiry on 6th July 2010

    /..
    https://p10.secure.hostingprod.com/@spyblog.org.uk/ssl/spyblog/2013/07/20/why-does-is-it-taking-downing-street-longer-to-censor-detainee-inquiry-interim-r.html

    This is the ‘Gibson inquiry’ that Craig wished to give information to.
    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/05/the-denial-of-justice/

  229. Sir Peter Gibson Intelligence Services Commissioner, left voluntarily in December 2010. Sir Mark Waller, a judge, replaced him in January 2011.
    http://isc.intelligencecommissioners.com/sections.asp?pageID=8&sectionID=5&type=blog

    Here is his report for 2012. http://cryptome.org/2013/07/uk-spy-commish-2012.pdf under these headings:

    Letter to the Prime Minister
    Foreword 1
    My Statutory Functions 4
    My Statutory and Extra-Statutory Functions 5
    The Method of my Review 7
    Discharge of my Functions 7
    Selection Stage 7
    Assessment of my Inspection Visits 9
    Assistance to the Investigatory Powers Tribunal 14
    Consolidated Guidance to Intelligence Officers and Service Personnel on
    Detention and Interviewing of Detainees, and on Passing and Receipt of
    Intelligence Relating to Detainees (Consolidated Guidance)
    Errors reported to me 16
    International Intelligence Review Agency Conference 18
    The Intelligence and Security Committee 18
    Confidential Annex 19
    Operational Success 19
    Statistics 20
    Conclusion 21
    Annex 22
    Useful Background Information 22
    Functions of the Agencies 23
    Warrants and Authorisations 25

  230. Sofia Kibo Noh

    27 Jul, 2013 - 11:07 pm

    Hi Villager.

    Was that inspired by your inner work? Gosh, you must have gone so deep!

    Lets talk about issues.

    What kind of life is mapped out for these two babies by others? What are the chances of either to live fully productive human lives?

    As for my assumed Buddhism, surely that was yesterday. Today it seems I’m a Kropotkyan or should that be Kropotpot?

  231. Yes, Mary, Theresa May and her diabetes have been all over the place today.

  232. “Theresa May has had Type 1 diabetes diagnosed.”

    She should go and see ATOS, allegedly they perform miracles!!!.

  233. “200,000 victims of Equitable Life collapse may miss out on compensation after Atos slips up again”

    http://www.independent.co.uk/money/spend-save/200000-victims-of-equitable-life-collapse-may-miss-out-on-compensation-after-atos-slips-up-again-8732807.html

  234. Anyone who has actually been through an atos interview knows that it depends on the quality/capacity of the person/ real human being who does the ‘assessment’. Sometimes one encounters … on other occasions one is faced with …

  235. Sorry.

    Stupid post regarding “Vulnerability”.

    A social science worthy of utmost attention.

    As seen or heard on a daily basis our vulnerable should be portrayed as the helped not the helpless.

    http://www.lancs.ac.uk/researchethics/4-2-understandings.html

    Being Liberal should also mean being selective, having a liberal account but remaining bias!

    Something Liberal leader Campbell-Bannerman would have us proud.

  236. Arbed, 27 Jul 3.16p

    Excellent work as usual, Arbed. I suppose a plausible explanation of Wilen’s behaviour is that when she discovered that Assange’s intimate company was not exclusively hers, she decided to do a little research on Ardin to check out the competition. In her research, Wilen found Ardin’s ’7 Steps to Legal Revenge’ page, took inspiration and decided to make contact with Ardin. What followed was a clumsy, but effective mission in character assasination that found political allies in the US-friendly Swedish establishment.

  237. Theresa May has type 1 diabetes meaning she will have to inject herself twice daily with insulin. But she is still free to inflict whatever injustices suits her racist whims.

    Talha Ahsan has Asberger Syndrome. She sent him to a US Supermax prison to be held 23 hours a day in solitary confinement at the request of her US masters. I am still trying to find out why a UK citizen could be held in a UK prison for six years without charge or trial and what he has allegedly done to warrant this torture, and whether any requests were made for him to be held in a less severe penal institution due to his medical condition. The FCO has failed to respond even though by law they should have done so by 9th July. Meanwhile Talha Ahsan has had his trial date delayed for six months. It appals me.

    https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/extradition_of_talha_ahsan#outgoing-287912

  238. Flaming June

    28 Jul, 2013 - 9:28 am

    The anger is coming from the producers and retailers of luxury goods! Visitors from India, Nigeria, Kenya, Sri Lanka, Pakistan and Bangladesh will be affected.

    July 26, 2013 8:36 pm

    UK to pilot £3,000 tourist bond despite anger
    By Elizabeth Rigby and Elizabeth Paton

    Britain is pressing ahead with its trial of a scheme to make visitors from six countries pay a £3,000 bond, despite an international backlash and complaints from businesses.

    The government said it would begin a pilot in November to impose visa restrictions on six Commonwealth nations, including India and Nigeria, even though David Cameron poured cold water on the scheme in June after it provoked uproar in Delhi.

    Luxury goods retailers have denounced the plan as an “insulting deterrent” to wealthy tourists, which will hit sales and damage London’s reputation. They are urging the government to drop the pilot, saying the restrictions will damage their business if Commonwealth tourists – particularly Nigerians, now the sixth biggest spenders on luxury goods in the UK – are put off.

    “It’s embarrassing that our country would consider these measures against visitors who spend so much in our stores,” said Michael Ward, managing director of Harrods. “There seems to be a deeply frustrating attitude in Westminster that they should do whatever they can to actively prevent people coming to the UK.”

    /..
    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/fba7dc0a-f609-11e2-a55d-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2aKHWbLcH

  239. Flaming June

    28 Jul, 2013 - 9:32 am

    John Goss I am greatly admiring of your assiduousness and activism for human rights. Inspirational.

  240. Flaming June

    28 Jul, 2013 - 9:40 am

    As previously reported, US AG Eric Holder promises not to call for the death penalty or to torture Edward Snowden is he returns to the US.

    viz
    July 26, 2013 5:25 pm

    US tells Russia Snowden will not be tortured
    By Anna Fifield in Washington

    The Obama administration has assured the Russian government that Edward Snowden will not be tortured or face the death penalty if he returns to the US in a bid to counteract the national security leaker’s claim for temporary asylum.

    Mr Snowden, the contractor turned whistleblower who has been holed up in the transit zone of a Moscow airport for more than a month, has filed papers asking for temporary asylum in Russia, saying he would be tortured or could be executed if he were returned to the US, which has cancelled his passport.
    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/12ccbc5e-f60d-11e2-a55d-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2aKHWbLcH

    ~~

    Dave Lindorff writes:

    A Shameful Day to Be a US Citizen
    AG Holder promises Russia not to torture Snowden

    July 27th, 2013

    I have been deeply ashamed of my country a number of times. The Nixon Christmas bombing of Hanoi and Haiphong was one such time, when hospitals, schools and dikes were targeted. The invasion of Iraq was another. Washington’s silence over the fatal Israeli Commando raid on the Gaza Peace Flotilla–in which a 19-year-old unarmed American boy was murdered–was a third. But I think I have never been as ashamed and disgusted as I was today reading that US Attorney General Eric Holder had sent a letter to the Russian minister of justice saying that the US would “not seek the death penalty” in its espionage case against National Security Agency whistleblower Edward Snowden, promising that even if the US later brought added charges against Snowden after obtaining him, they would not include any death penalty, and vowing that if Snowden were handed over by Russia to the US, he would “not be tortured.”

    So it has come to this: That the United States has to promise (to Russia!) that it will not torture a prisoner in its control — a US citizen at that — and so therefore that person, Edward Snowden, has no basis for claiming that he should be “treated as a refugee or granted asylum.”
    /..
    http://dissidentvoice.org/2013/07/a-shameful-day-to-be-a-us-citizen/

  241. Someone, 27 Jul 9.41p

    Re British Muslims donating more to charity than Jews, Christians etc

    From Someone’s (no relation) link -

    “The donations went to various Islamic-oriented charities, including Muslim Aid, Islamic Relief and the Zakat Trust. Muslims also donate to individual mosques and earmark sums of money to non-Islamic causes. In 2010, Muslims in Manchester donated $79,831 to develop a United Reformed Church building in a rundown part of the city.”
    . . . .

    From http://www.wyldegreenurc.org.uk/press_archive.htm

    “[United Reformed] Church Minister, Ken Chippindale explained: It was a wonderful privilege to be able to host the Islamic Festival of Eid in our church halls.  We were joined by Christians from churches all over Sutton, showing our commitment to learn more about each other and live together peacefully.  Many new friendships were formed and the feast provided by our Muslim friends was enjoyed by all.”
    . . . .

    So it’s not hard to see that donations were not just to “charities” but to organisations that promote Islam and the interests of Muslims.

    Is that what charity is all about?

  242. Flaming June

    28 Jul, 2013 - 9:47 am

    Better late than never, the BMA write to Obama on force feeding at Guantanamo.

    BMA urges Obama to stop doctors force-feeding Guantánamo prisoners
    Global drug companies are told practice is ‘a gross violation of internationally accepted standards of medical ethics’

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/27/bma-says-end-guantanamo-force-feeding

  243. Thanks for the support Flaming June. Striving for justice sometimes feels like a lonely pursuit, though I know others, especially who comment on this blog, together with Craig who inspires us all, are engaged in long-term battles with the power-mongers.

  244. Sofia Kibo Noh

    28 Jul, 2013 - 10:02 am

    @Jemand. 9 42am

    Thanks for the link showing some christians demonstrating “commitment to learn more about each other and live together peacefully.”

    You lose me though when you go on… “So it’s not hard to see that donations were not just to “charities” but to organisations that promote Islam and the interests of Muslims. Is that what charity is all about?”

    Surely the same could surely be said for many Jewish, Christian and
    other donators. Would that invalidate their acts of mutual aid?

    BTW thanks for acknowledging Arbed’s tireless work on the Assange theme. I’d like to second that. John Goss too. You’re an inspiration guys/guyesses.

  245. Sofia Kibo Noh

    28 Jul, 2013 - 10:08 am

    Good News! Or do I need to pinch myself?

    “There is no military solution to Syria. There is only a political solution, and that will require leadership in order to bring people to the table,” John Kerry

    Fingers crossed he means it.

    The big question would be, “Which people?”

  246. Sofia Kibo Noh

    28 Jul, 2013 - 10:15 am

    Re Kerry post:

    it

    Sorry. An easy link to miss.

  247. Was IT this Sofia?

    Syrian rebels press US to send weapons fast, Kerry sees no military solution to crisis
    http://rt.com/news/syria-rebels-us-weapons-617/

    Perhaps at last it’s dawning on the Americans when they look around at the ME and, in particular, Libya, Egypt, Iraq, Afghanistan and now Syria that their warmongering has not achieved anything except death and destruction, mayhem and massive displacements of people.

    Of course, this ignores what has happened to the Palestinians with the US support of Israel with $billions and weaponry.

  248. Sofia Kibo Noh

    28 Jul, 2013 - 11:39 am

    Yes Flaming.

    That was “IT

    I do hope,for the sake of all the people of Syria that the US will break it’s habit of pouring petrol on the flames and seriously engage in some peace-mongering.

  249. Sofia Kibo Noh

    28 Jul, 2013 - 11:47 am

    Just in case you missed it the first four times folks.

    http://rt.com/news/syria-rebels-us-weapons-617/

    Well, I reckon you can’t get too much peace-making.

    And while the US is about it, how about regaining some credibility by ceasing to arm the rogue state of Israel until it demonstrates the will and ability to control it’s destructive and expansionist urges?

  250. Sofia KN, yes it can be said for many claims of Christian and Jewish “charity” although I didn’t notice any comments on this page purporting that Cs and Js were particularly generous. As for the spirit of “charity”, I thought it was about giving to others, not oneself or ones own kind, whatever “kind” that is.

  251. More..

    Sofia KN, how would it look if white South Africans were shown to be extraordinarily generous to charities if it turned out that those charities were almost exclusively for the benefit of white people in need? You can bet your last dollar that it would arouse howls of derision, here on this blog and elsewhere.

  252. Sofia Kibo Noh

    28 Jul, 2013 - 12:16 pm

    @Jemand. 12:04 pm

    “…I didn’t notice any comments on this page purporting that Cs and Js were particularly generous…”

    Not exactly, but when I quote Kropotkyn,

    “…The mutual-aid tendency in man has so remote an origin, and is so deeply interwoven with all the past evolution of the human race, that is has been maintained by mankind up to the present time, notwithstanding all vicissitudes of history….”

    the point that I clearly failed to get across was that the desire for mutual aid was pretty universal among people of all hues.

  253. Just a quick note to those here who care to know, JJ Cale has left the planet. Ticker stopped ticking but the music still plays on.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-28/grammy-award-winning-singer-songwriter-jj-cale-dies/4848306

  254. Sofia KN, the ‘desire for mutal aid being universal among people of all hues’ is not a fact but wishful thinking. If it were true, we wouldn’t even be talking about it because this blog wouldn’t have a reason to exist.

  255. Are the Palestinians considered to be ‘citizens’? Will they get a vote?

    Israeli cabinet backs referendum bill for peace process
    Mr Netanyahu faces a tough task convincing colleagues on prisoner releases

    The Israeli cabinet has approved a bill requiring any peace deal with the Palestinians to be put to a referendum.

    A statement from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s office said that it was “important that on such historic decisions every citizen should vote directly”.

    /..
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23482540

  256. Sofia Kibo Noh

    28 Jul, 2013 - 12:42 pm

    @Jemand.

    I’d never claim the desire for mutual aid is the only one we have. Just that societies, to cohere and thrive, require a strong strand of co-operativeness.

  257. Jemand – Censorship Improves History 28 Jul, 2013 – 12:32 pm
    “…the ‘desire for mutal aid being universal among people of all hues’ is not a fact but wishful thinking.”

    From the off Darwin’s theories were (mis)represented as scientific rational for wealth division. i.e. That ruthless competition is ineviatable, essential, natural.

    Kropotkin was the first to point out that there is far more cooperation than competition in nature. That cooperation is a powerful evolutionary force. He also described a human history rich with cooperation.

    But a world of cooperation is hidden from us by those who sell war. Instead it’s all survival of the fittest, law of the jungle, dog eat dog etc. Attenborough is an uncompromising idealogical propagandist.

    But look around you. All that cooperation breaking out everywhere despite the propaganda. From the bacteria in your belly to the food bank down your street. We grew up being told that dogs and cats hate each other right? It’s not true!

  258. But charity does begin at home, with those who carry your genes.

    I know there are many exceptions proving the rule but never the less, it’s the egg that matters, chickens are just machines for making more eggs.

  259. Phil, I never denied a function of cooperation between animals, including humans. Nor did I endorse the opposite. The single biggest irritant I have found on this blog is the wilfull misrepresentation of commentator’s posts. After that, there is the ever present confusion of “is” with “should”. Despite several attempts to highlight this problem, it still remains.

    You write of there being more cooperation than competition in nature. I’d like to see some evidence of an objective measure of that. Whatever cooperation you can see is apparently either self-interested mutual assistance within a species, like we see in our friends the Meerkats*, or an unconcious symbiotic relationship between unlike species such as humans and bacteria.

    You cannot argue with any credibility, that there is an innate, human-like feeling of ‘goodness’ in the concious minds of micro-organisms, insects, fish, cats and other so-called lesser animals, that motivates them to be cooperative when the circumstances provide.

    And I am certainly well aware of extraordinary animal behaviour that sees vicious predators showing nurturing and caring towards other species that are *normally* their prey.

    So what has this got to do with reports of Muslims donating money to other Muslims and causes that have an Islamic self-interest? How generous do Muslims feel inclined to donate to Jewish causes or those that have no religious affiliations at all? We can ask the same questions about all other groups but my comment was directed towards the nonsensical implication in Someone’s comment that Muslims are demonstrably more generous people than others. There was no explanation or analysis accompanying that comment, just a smug implication. I showed that it was bullshit, and here we are discussing dogs and kittens…… ??????????

    As for your claim that (David?) Attenborough is a propagandist, I’m disappointed that you feel that way about a person who I regard as an extraordinary asset to your nation and its long history of documenting natural history. I see no political implications in his many of his documentaries except for the need to understand the enormous complexity of nature and the human tendency to destroy it. His doco on Climate Change, was excellent.

    *I saw a doco that showed how vicious Meerkats were to other (rival) families. Their competitive drive saw them attack each other, with targetted killing of their young. Do I think any less or more of them? No. But I have no illusions or gooey sentiments about the nature of survival.

  260. Fred, correct. We are all just machines finding new ways of surviving the day to lay another egg. Not a romantic vision of life, but then, why ‘should’ it be.

  261. “I never denied a function of cooperation between animals”

    And I didn’t mean to suggest you did. All I tried to say was your statement “mutual aid is wishfull thinking” is an overstated orthodoxy.

    Here’s another, very modern, example of cooperation to bring a smile to your face: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ri5cszSKEg

  262. OK I suppose there remains the remote possibility that attenborough is a patsy rather than a dastard.

    I really didn’t intend to misrepresent you I just want you to stop killing kittens with your hate mongering.

  263. Jemand, 9.20am

    Thanks. I think your reading of the earliest days of this whole sorry saga is the most likely scenario.

  264. Phil – “I really didn’t intend to misrepresent you I just want you to stop killing kittens with your hate mongering.”

    I’ve found other ways to kill kittens, Phil.

    A Public Awareness Message -
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/11/God-kills-kitten.jpg

  265. “I’ve found other ways to kill kittens, Phil.”

    So it could be the RSPCA lobbying for filtering of the internet.

    I’d assumed it was one of the charities for the blind.

  266. Craig, you may be interested in a book by James Patrick, The rest is silence. It is about Tessa May, Tom Winsor and G4S and how they are all interwoven in the privatisation of the police service. May her husband and Winsor have financial links that should be exposed.

    James is a serving police officer with the Metropolitan police. He is under investigation by the Mets professional standards in relation to the content of the book. The content of which certain individuals don’t want exposed.

  267. Jemand – Censorship Improves History 28 Jul, 2013 – 2:15 pm

    “I saw a doco that showed how vicious Meerkats were to other (rival) families. Their competitive drive saw them attack each other, with targetted killing of their young.”

    For every example of conflict there is an example of cooperation, but conflict makes it on tv. Which is sort of the point.

    No one’s denying competiton and conflict. Just that our mainstream culture disproportionately emphasises competition over cooperation for ideological reasons.

  268. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 4:34 pm

    New perspective video of Hastings crash. What do you think? One explosion or two?

    http://whowhatwhy.com/2013/07/28/the-crash-video/

  269. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 4:36 pm

    @ Jemand :

    “but my comment was directed towards the nonsensical implication in Someone’s comment that Muslims are demonstrably more generous people than others.”
    ____________

    Well, you’ll be happy to hear that I, at least, understood what your point was.

    I find interesting the (delicate? embarrassed?) silence when it transpired that most of the charity from Muslims went to Muslim causes and to promote Islam.

    Nothing wrong with that, of course, but I can imagine the sneers and howls of outrage if someone were to point out that most of Jewish charity work is directed towards Jewish causes. Indeed, poeple have alluded to this on various threads of this blog and kindly supplied their own sneers and howls of outrage justr in case. :)

  270. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 4:40 pm

  271. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 4:50 pm

  272. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version) 28 Jul, 2013 – 4:40 pm

    “You just need a laptop…http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23443215

    The two research projects discussed on that link pretty much remove any doubt that cars can be hacked. Now all you need is a motive and you’ve found your killer(s).

  273. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 4:59 pm

    Did you review the video, Phil?

  274. “You just need a laptop….”

    Then you need to plug it into someone’s car and sit in the back seat without them noticing.

  275. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 5:04 pm

  276. Fred 28 Jul, 2013 – 5:00 pm
    “Then you need to plug it into someone’s car and sit in the back seat without them noticing.”

    Ben’s BBC link discussed that this research, to take control of vehicle functions, was built to complement previous research which gained remote access. Maybe someone is combining the two as we talk.

  277. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 5:08 pm

    Fred; There have been remotely-controlled model airplanes for decades. Commercial flights fly-by-wire. Pilots are just there to keep the passengers comfortable. You don’t see any remote-joystick capability on a car?

  278. “The two research projects discussed on that link pretty much remove any doubt that cars can be hacked. Now all you need is a motive and you’ve found your killer(s).”

    Of course cars can be hacked, I’ve hacked them myself, lots of people have, it’s never been any secret, the equipment has been for sale on ebay for years.

    Here, a step by step guide, spend 10 quid and hack your car.

    http://theksmith.com/technology/hack-vehicle-bus-cheap-easy-part-1/

  279. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 5:13 pm

    Oh sure. Now that the mobsters have culled their goods.

    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/cyprus-lenders-set-bank-cyprus-104408907.html

    “NICOSIA (Reuters) – Cyprus and its international lenders have agreed to convert 47.5 percent of deposits exceeding 100,000 euros in Bank of Cyprus to equity to recapitalize it, banking sources said on Sunday.

    Under a programme agreed between Cyprus and lenders in March, large depositors in Bank of Cyprus were earmarked to pay for the recapitalisation of the bank. Authorities initially converted 37.5 percent of deposits exceeding 100,000 euros into equity, and held an additional 22.5 percent as a buffer in the event of further needs.

    “There was an agreement concluding at a final figure of 47.5 percent this morning,” a source close to consultations told Reuters.”

  280. “One explosion or two?”

    No idea. Can’t tell.

  281. “a final figure of 47.5 percent”

    Bail ins, the new bail out. The laws are being put in place:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/20/us-eu-banks-idUSBRE94J0AC20130520

  282. @Ben

    Take a look at:

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/06/work-for-the-un/comment-page-2/#comment-413666

    That’s me saying it could be done before the first news report on the subject.

    It isn’t rocket science, it isn’t new, it isn’t a secret why all the hype?

  283. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 5:40 pm

    Fred; Do you have any opinions on the video? I have looked at many collisions on Youtube which show even slower speeds can result in a fireball. Since the tranny was found some 130 feet away it’s possible the fuel line being torn asunder would precipitate a fire, but some have speculated that for the trans to be carried that far the car would have to travel some 225 mph. My observation of the speed appears to be over 100, but not 225 which would be impossible even for the Benz.

  284. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 5:47 pm

  285. “Do you have any opinions on the video?”

    I don’t think it’s possible to ascertain much from the video, a car goes past and it crashes.

    I think there is a strong possibility he was whacked but that it is by no means certain.

    I believe in conspiracy theories, I’m just highly dubious of the people who believe all of them and the people who will believe in non.

  286. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 6:07 pm

    “But I’m not here to speak ill of the dead. I’m here to state that I’ve seen dozens of cars hit walls and stuff at high speeds and the number of them that I have observed to eject their powertrains and immediately catch massive fire is, um, ah, zero.

    Modern cars are very good at not catching fire in accidents. The Mercedes-Benz C-Class, which is an evolutionary design from a company known for sweating the safety details over and above the Euro NCAP requirements, should be leading the pack in the not-catching-on-fire category.”

    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/06/famed-non-automotive-journalist-michael-hastings-turns-a-c250-into-a-bomb/

  287. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 6:25 pm

    Three seconds more to get a fire with that ejected engine, Kempe.

  288. A couple of Mercs that have burst into flames.

    http://www.kentonline.co.uk/gravesend_messenger/news/car-fire-at-shopping-centre-3773/

    http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/local-news/m25-gridlock-after-mercedes-bursts-4720565

    Cars do occasionally burst into flames after an accident whether the engine is ejected or not. Having the engine fly out and rip the fuel lines off would appear to make it more likely although by no means a certainty.

    Proving that something CAN be done is very different from proving that it WAS done. Any evidence that Hasting’s car was actually hacked?

  289. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 6:39 pm

    ” Any evidence that Hasting’s car was actually hacked?”

    None. But use your counter-intuitive research skills to give an explanation as to why so many intrusive journalists have died mysterious deaths with evidence collected from authorities similarly disposed to conspiracy theory.

  290. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 6:51 pm

  291. Flaming June

    28 Jul, 2013 - 7:01 pm

    Israel Agrees Release Of Palestinian Prisoners
    The renewal of Middle East peace talks moves a step closer as Israel agrees the release of 104 Palestinian prisoners.http://news.sky.com/story/1121435/israel-agrees-release-of-palestinian-prisoners

    ~~
    Compare that number, 104, to the thousands detailed below.

    Statistics on Palestinians in the custody of the Israeli security forces.
    Updated: 25 Jul 2013

    At the end of June 2013, some 4,827 Palestinian security detainees and prisoners were held in Israeli prisons, 409 of them from the Gaza Strip. An additional 1,267 Palestinians were held in Israel Prison Service facilities for being in Israel illegally, 24 of them from the Gaza Strip. The IPS considers these Palestinians – both detainees and prisoners – criminal offenders. A few dozen other Palestinians (we do not have precise figures) are held in IDF facilities for short periods of time. The following data were provided by the military and by the IPS.
    + graph
    http://www.btselem.org/statistics/detainees_and_prisoners

  292. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 7:02 pm

  293. Kempe 28 Jul, 2013 – 6:28 pm
    “very different from proving that it WAS done”

    True. So one journalist, possibly with dynamite, dies suspiciously. Could be coincidence.

    I wonder if anyone has studied to see if ‘opposing the state’ is statistically over represented amongst unusual deaths. It would be an interesting yardstick.

  294. My guess is that the video of Hastings’ crash has been speeded up to make it look like the car was going faster than it was.

    As to deaths in crashes public figures are much more likely to die than ordinary individuals. It does need some thorough research but Hastings’ death was convenient, to say the least, for those he was investigating. Likewise Bob Cryer’s death was convenient for the US military at Menwith Hill. How dare Bob Cryer, an English MP, criticise the US for having a base on English soil without parliamentary approval?

  295. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 7:51 pm

    I was wondering when you would chime-in John. Now where is Trowbridge? :)

  296. “As to deaths in crashes public figures are much more likely to die than ordinary individuals.”

    What do you base that on john?

  297. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 7:55 pm

    Early with the sounds, eh Villager?

  298. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 8:00 pm

    Jack Bruce showing his complex bass riffs.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnlCU_lzYvM

  299. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 8:05 pm

    Clapton, Sheryl Crow and David Sanborn.

    Make sure you don’t miss Sanborn’s solo.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BSaAiWnBHY

  300. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 8:11 pm

    Oh, I see you didn’t intend to entertain, Villager. Sorry.

  301. How many times does an unlikely accident need to occur before it is accepted as having occurred in the eventuality of it actually occurring?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unusual_deaths

  302. @Ben

    Mississippi John Hurt, where it all began.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoFWtohnz9E

  303. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 8:43 pm

    @ Kempe :

    “Any evidence that Hasting’s car was actually hacked?”
    __________________

    Shame on you for asking for something as banal as evidence, Kempe!

    Who needs evidence when you have…”counter-intuitive research skills” (cf Ben Franklin)? :)

  304. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 8:47 pm

    @ Ben Franklin

    “I could go on, and on and on….”
    _______________

    And on past form, you almost certainly will…..

    Spare us!

  305. Flaming June

    28 Jul, 2013 - 8:54 pm

    This from a Medialens contributor is a e-mail which has been sent to Channel 4 News. They and Sky News have been putting out the most awful propaganda against North Korea. I have not seen any BBC Newa.

    Channel 4′s John Sparks on North Korea…short email
    Posted by Ed on July 28, 2013, 7:36 pm

    Mr Sparks,
    In a Britain where the msm have just produced and indulged in an excruciating bout of royal sycophancy, and in a Britain where hundreds of thousands of people are relying on food banks to keep themselves and their children fed, and in a Britain whose government is intent on spending tens of billions on Trident (which incidentally goes against the NPT which promotes steps towards disarmament and prohibits replacing or renewing existing nuclear weapons systems), and in a Britain that is becoming increasingly militaristic (just take a look at the heavy military presence at any major sporting event these days), you see fit to write a piece on North Korea (1) brimming with self righteous indignation:

    “..an oversized shrine to the North Korean military in the heart of the capital Pyongyang…the Victorious Fatherland Liberation War Museum is decorated with colossal Soviet-style art, depicting battle scenes from the Korean war…The complex is flanked by pavilions displaying North Korean armaments and I asked myself a simple question – how much did all this cost? In a nation that struggles to feed its own people – something North Korea blames on international sanctions and western hostility – it seemed an extraordinary use of resources…This public display of firepower along with the squadrons of near-hysterical citizens pledging their loyalty to the regime was designed to make a definite impression – an impression of strength at home and abroad.”

    You also say:
    “I admire the North Koreans for being brave enough to let people like me in but we cannot stop being journalists.”

    Do you ever listen to yourself?

    Ed Murray.

    (1)Four days in North Korea – a ‘chasm’ away from rest of world
    http://www.channel4.com/news/north-korea-chasm-away-from-rest-of-world

  306. It’s probably much more important that people are prepared to believe and indeed act on their belief, that the US, its agents or familiars etc would whack someone like Hastings, than it is to prove that he was in fact whacked.

    Sure, some will argue that definitive proof of Hastings having been whacked ought to play heavily into the former project, but Chomsky and many others have been exposing the difference between state claims and actions for years, with little noticeable impact on these states.

    There’s an interesting discussion of these different approaches at Medialens:

    http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1374994523.html

    and in the original article here:

    http://www.versobooks.com/blogs/1365-some-bewildered-clarifications

  307. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 9:00 pm

    @ Phil :

    ““a final figure of 47.5 percent”

    Bail ins, the new bail out. The laws are being put in place:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/20/us-eu-banks-idUSBRE94J0AC20130520
    ________________

    So you would prefer the ordinary taxpayer to continue taking the hit in the event of any future bank bail-outs?

    Interesting.

  308. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 9:05 pm

    As usual our favorite advocate for the State, has nothing substantive to provide. But he is the’ best heckler ‘ known to the world of stand-up comedians.

  309. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 9:07 pm

    The implication of Mr Ed Murray’s email, brought to our attention by the Frequent Poster at 20h54, would seem to be that North Korea should not be criticised by the western media because of the existence of food banks and Trident in the UK.

    An interesting – but rather silly – point of view.

  310. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 9:09 pm

    @ Ben Franklin

    “As usual our favorite advocate for the State, has nothing substantive to provide”
    _________

    And what do you have to provide by way of evidence?

    Oh, I know – “counter-intuitive research skills”!

  311. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 9:12 pm

    redundant heckling.

  312. Habby performs the function here of op-ed columns. Every event which might reasonably be expected to undermine states’ propaganda is twisted, turned, and sanitised until it can be squeezed back into the propaganda hole.

    Don’t care if they’re square pegs, round pegs, oblong pegs, whatever. They’ll all fit the same hole.

    The op-ed’s job is simply to ensure they fit the hole, no matter what!

    Don’t even matter how much you have to embarrass yourself in the process. The money takes care of that.

    “It’s hard to get someone to understand something when their salary depends on their not understanding it.”

  313. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 9:20 pm

    “They’ll all fit the same hole.”

    I see what you’re saying. ‘Sphincter says, what?’

  314. Jemand:

    “So it’s not hard to see that donations were not just to “charities” but to organisations that promote Islam and the interests of Muslims.”

    The entire Taliban, ‘good’ and ‘bad’ are financed by massive ‘charitable donations’ from Saudi Arabia.

    In this day and age it is hardly surprising to learn that Muslims donate more than others. Can we know how much of this is going towards fighting Jihad in various conflicted areas?

    In history it is probably true that Christians have killed more fellow human beings than any other religion. With the concept of Jihad (and with GWB having called for a War on Terror and turned Al Qaida from a limited organisation into a phenomenon), its now the turn of the Muslims. Moreover because of the Wahhabi/Salafist divide with those more willing to embrace secularism at least at a political level (eg Turkey), and because of the Sunni and Shia (and others) divide they are also killing each other in compounded numbers. There is undoubtedly a problem within the scriptures that lends itself to divisiveness and conflict. Christianity as a whole may have exhausted itself and even ‘matured’, its Islam’s turn now. Though i reject all so-called organised religions (you cannot organise the Truth), Asiatic religions still have a healthier attitude in the negation of killing other human beings, but they are doing it too, although not quite so spectacularly.

  315. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 9:24 pm

    “The government said it would begin a pilot in November to impose visa restrictions on six Commonwealth nations, including India and Nigeria, even though David Cameron poured cold water on the scheme in June after it provoked uproar in Delhi.

    Luxury goods retailers have denounced the plan as an “insulting deterrent” to wealthy tourists, which will hit sales and damage London’s reputation. They are urging the government to drop the pilot, saying the restrictions will damage their business if Commonwealth tourists – particularly Nigerians, now the sixth biggest spenders on luxury goods in the UK – are put off.”
    _______________

    What an egregiously silly argument, and I’m glad that the Frequent Poster, who brought it to our attention, agrees with me.

    This entry deposit is unlikely to put off wealthy Nigerians from coming to London and buying luxury goods. They have the money to pay for the bond and have no intention of illegally staying on in the UK.

    And even if it did put them off, surely we should not be defending the right of wealthy Nigerians to come to London to spend their ill-gotten gains, nor the right of expensive London stores to relieve those wealthy Nigerians of their ill-gotten gains?

    Is there a Zionist angle to all of this?

  316. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 9:32 pm

    @ Herbie:

    Abuse and supposition are no substitute for argument and evidence.

    A truth which some of the Eminences – including, unfortunately, you – still have to learn.

    And now, stop bickering.

  317. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Improbable_things_happen

    But not general agreement on this blog.

  318. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 9:34 pm

  319. doug scorgie

    28 Jul, 2013 - 9:44 pm

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)
    26 Jul, 2013 – 10:25 pm

    “who on this blog comments on political,, social or human rights abuses in Russia, China, India, Pakistan, Syria, Egypt, North Korea, Venezuela, Ecuador, Zimbabwe, South Africa and various corrupt and despotic African countries?”

    Habbabkuk, if you want to start a discussion about political, social or human rights abuses in ANY country please do so.

    Perhaps there could meaningful intercourse on the subject.

    The ball is in your court if you want to serve.

  320. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 10:12 pm

    @ Doug Scorgie

    No, Doug, not trying to start a discussion. I was just wondering why the Eminences are so vocal about human rights in the US and the west in general (and human rights abuses perpetrated by these countries elsewhere) but remain rather silent when it comes to human rights abuses perpetrated by other countries.

    Have you any idea why this should be so?

  321. My post yesterday about Agent Cameron’s intention to impose a tourist bond was purely a extract from a Financial Times article, ie a statement of fact.

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/07/navalny-ward-assange-snowden-and-the-attack-on-free-speech/comment-page-2/#comment-420684

    I expressed no opinion on the imposition of the bond, contrary to what the Resident Invigilator is claiming above.

  322. Silly pictures of a silly man on holiday. Looks like a photo op. The photos were taken by Associated Press.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2378933/David-Cameron-appears-slightly-awkward-holiday-garb.html

  323. Habby, add Saudi Arabia to your list — one of the more mischievous countries on Earth, rarely mentioned on this blog. What is their relationship to Palestine? Why haven’t they with all their money and power derived from their US collaborators, been able to foster an Israeli-Palestine peace? Anyone?

  324. Agent Cameron’s side kick Cleggover seems to think he can live the high life at our expense. When will be shot of these creeps?

    Nick Clegg refused to pay his bar bill for thousands of pounds at grace-and-favour home… and thinks you should pick up the tab: Row erupts over Lib Dem leader’s lavish entertaining

    Nick Clegg shares Chevening, in Kent, with the Foreign Secretary
    Landowner Edward Barham complained after Mr Clegg objected to the bill
    The complaint led to negotiations with Mr Clegg who paid most of the tab
    The taxpayer was left to foot the rest of the bill from Cabinet Office coffers
    Mr Clegg earns £134,000 a year and his wife Miriam is paid up to £500,000

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2380177/Nick-Clegg-refused-pay-bar-thousands-grace-favour-Chevening-home.html

  325. Phil @ 7.54 pm. There is a 1 in 7000 chance of dying in an air or space incident according to: http://www.nsc.org/NSC%20Picture%20Library/News/web_graphics/Injury_Facts_37.pdf.

    Taking the years 2001-2010 based on this Wikipedia link of air-crashes involving famous deaths:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatalities_from_aviation_accidents

    2001 = 13
    2002 = 05
    2003 = 02
    2004 = 05
    2005 = 03
    2006 = 06
    2007 = 06
    2008 = 03
    2009 = 08
    2010 = 03 (In one of these crashes in 2010 the polish prime minister, his wife and members of the cabinet were killed). But leaving that aside, and the fact that these figures are included below, in total there were 54 crashes with famous fatalities)

    Fatalities in air crashes

    2001 = 4140
    2002 = 1413
    2003 = 1230
    2004 = 771
    2005 = 1459
    2006 = 1294
    2007 = 971
    2008 = 884
    2009 = 1103
    2010 = 1115

    Total = 14,380

    Multiplying the under-representative number of famous people 54 by 7000 gives:

    Total = 378,000

    Like I said it does “need some thorough research” so if you have any figures showing that this is a miscalculation I should be happy to consider them.

  326. Forgot to put in the link for the second set of figures.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_accidents_and_incidents

  327. Habby argues:

    “The implication of Mr Ed Murray’s email, brought to our attention by the Frequent Poster at 20h54, would seem to be that North Korea should not be criticised by the western media because of the existence of food banks and Trident in the UK.”

    Surely the point of Mr Ed Murray’s email is to show that this hack, who writes so scathingly of N Korea, has not and would never write in such terms about the UK.

    A similar acusation, I might add, that you’ve levelled at regulars here, regularly.

    So, further to my post above @9.15pm, which you derided as bickering, here’s a fine example of your good self trying to squeeze a round peg into a square hole.

    Others will just call it hypocrisy, but I think my post above has it bang to rights.

  328. Someone
    27 Jul, 2013 – 4:13 pm

    “Brighton man faces jail for calling Hove MP Mike Weatherley ‘coward’”

    Yes Someone, Section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986 is a catch all law that has been misused by the police and state numerous times for over 20 years.

    The same law was used against David Lawley-Wakelin who interrupted the Leveson inquiry when Blair was giving “evidence”.

    Blair didn’t press charges but that paragon of justice Leveson did.

    What a twat!

    There was no use of bad language or adjectives of swearing. There was no actual threat made to Mr Blair on anyone else.

    It was Lord Leveson who had pushed for prosecution.

    Freedom of speech?

    You can say what you like as long as no one disagrees with you and calls the police.

  329. The biggest number of plane crash deaths in 2001 involved the twin towers. I do not know of any celebrities who were killed in the event. Does anybody?

    I came across this:

    http://listverse.com/2011/12/12/10-famous-people-who-avoided-death-on-911/

    And Donna Summers believed dust from 9/11 led to her death.

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4323815/911-dust-kills-disco-queen-Donna-Summer.html

    If there were no famous people deaths caused by 9/11 it would bear out the expected figure of 1 in 7000 but be anomalous to airplane crash figures presented in my comment above.

  330. Less than 3000 signatures and there will be 100,000 people nominating Bradley Manning for the Nobel Peace Prize. Please help this good young man.

    http://act.rootsaction.org/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=7612&track=MM&tag=MM

  331. This “peace” initiative by sewage satanyahu,hostages being freed and all,what really lies behind it? That he has messianic delusions about being remembered as another expansionist hero like dayan is known, but what is his target? Methinks its an expansion up to the Litani River, to include both Syrian and Lebanese territory. The evil seed of the irgun,haganah and stern gangs (who invented the hotel and car bombs way back in the 1940s as we know them today.BTW-the mossad motorcycle assassin is a fairly recent innovation)who are at the heart of zionistani politics,may yet surprise us. But it will have to put Lavon,USS Liberty,Argentina,911 capers to shame, to get past the hawk eyed internet community that is no longer swayed by the MSM harps. But their devilish cunning and deception may finally only be stymied by a whistleblower like in the Barksdale nuclear saga.

  332. “If there were no famous people deaths caused by 9/11 it would bear out the expected figure of 1 in 7000 but be anomalous to airplane crash figures presented in my comment above.”

    Barbara Olson.

  333. “Silly pictures of a silly man on holiday” noticed by a silly mind that takes the silly action of posting them here for her assumed silly friends.

    Subtle propagation of silliness from silly ego-centred mechanical activity jumping from silliness to silliness without any responsibility to one’s own self-created silliness.

    Silliness is not an abstract, it is personified. Only self-awareness can end it.

    One letter in and one letter out gives you Stillness — then respond/go from there and a whole new creative way of life might just emerge. Try it!

  334. Flaming June
    27 Jul, 2013 – 11:07 pm

    Theresa May has had Type 1 diabetes diagnosed.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2380142/My-shocking-illness-Home-Secretary-Theresa-May-reveals-Type-1-diabetes-needs-daily-injections–vows-continue-political-career.html

    “Theresa May reveals she has Type 1 diabetes and needs daily injections… but vows to continue her political career.”

    She makes it sound like a terminal illness.

    “Type 1 diabetes, a chronic illness, carries a risk of heart attacks and strokes.”

    So does being poor!

    I have been a type1 diabetic for the past 30 years and I have 5 injections and 6 blood-glucose tests a day. It’s something you have to get used to.

    I wonder how much she got paid for her story.

  335. “I wonder how much she got paid for her story.”

    You’ll never know that, but what you can know is that it appeared here for free.

  336. Btw, Doug, try fenugreek seeds — they are supposed to be bitter and counter the action of sugar. Please do research it. Probably won’t cure since its well-entrenched but may alleviate gradually.

  337. Villager says, of some Daily Mail story that Mary posted:

    “You’ll never know that, but what you can know is that it appeared here for free.”

    Who would say that?

    It’s kinda like a knee-jerk defence of old media.

    So, who would say that?

  338. Ben now its entertainment time. Nico’s on my mind with mind, mellowness and melody:

    I’ll be your Mirror NICO 1966 Warhol video
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sKzMEQ6MUo

    These days
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_z_UEuEMAo

  339. “Who would say that?

    It’s kinda like a knee-jerk defence of old media.

    So, who would say that?”

    Midnight excitability? Don’t know what you’re going on about. I said it appeared in CM’s blog for free. What you smoking? Pass the joint around…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvGJvzwKqg0

  340. FFS all this Villager babbling its all krishnamurphy to me !

  341. Good Hasbeen have another machiato!

  342. Fred, thank you for that. It still fits the 1 in 7000 criterion. I also notice she died in the Pentagon attack and not the twin towers!

  343. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    29 Jul, 2013 - 7:13 am

    “My post yesterday about Agent Cameron’s intention to impose a tourist bond was purely a extract from a Financial Times article, ie a statement of fact.”
    ____________

    Quite, which is why I wrote :

    “What an egregiously silly argument, and I’m glad that the Frequent Poster, WHO BROUGHT IT TO OUR ATTENTION..”
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    “I expressed no opinion on the imposition of the bond,…”
    ________________

    And nor did I say that you did (although you are on record here as opposing it). But I assume you would agree with me on the silliness/selfishness of the position taken by London’s retailers of luxury goods, surely?

    And now please stop bickering.

  344. Flaming June

    29 Jul, 2013 - 7:18 am

    SFO to receive funding for Barclays probe – FT

    Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:16am BST

    (Reuters) – Britain’s Serious Fraud Office (SFO) is expected to receive about 2 million pounds from the UK Treasury to support its criminal probe into the dealings between Barclays Plc and Qatar Holding, the Financial Times reported on Sunday.

    Barclays is being investigated by the SFO and Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) for an allegation that the bank lent Qatar Holding, a part of the Qatar Investment Authority, money to invest in it as part of a rescue fundraising at the height of the 2008 financial crisis.

    UK rules forbid a public company from giving financial assistance in order to acquire its shares or those of a parent company.

    The bank has been deeply investigated by the FCA, which is now taking a back seat with the SFO probing into other parts of the fundraising, the FT said, citing people familiar with the matter.

    A treasury spokesperson and the SFO declined to comment on the matter, while Barclays was not available for comments outside regular business hours.

    David Green, the head of the SFO, has said he expects to secure extra funding from the government for some complex investigations, partly because the agency’s annual budget has been slashed to around 30 million pounds – a fraction of the budget of some regional police forces.

    Green, who has said he hopes for progress in the Barclays investigation by year end, is already receiving more than 3 million pounds per year in extra government funding the help with the largest and most complex inquiry on his books – the investigation into Libor rate rigging.

    Some lawyers have argued that this so-called ‘surge’ or ‘blockbuster’ funding for specific investigations risks undermining the independence of the SFO, which is battling to restore faith in its crime-busting abilities.

    Barclays, which publishes financial results on Tuesday, is expected to set out plans either to sell bonds that are wiped out if it hits trouble or to raise equity to meet tougher UK rules on capital.

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/07/29/uk-barclays-investigation-idUKBRE96S00120130729

  345. Flaming June

    29 Jul, 2013 - 7:21 am

    A split emerges between Cable and the May cohort of right wingers.

    Vince Cable today attacked Tory colleagues for launching a “stupid and offensive” crackdown on illegal immigrants and accused them of being obsessed with migration figures.

    The Business Secretary said Immigration Minister Mark Harper’s decision to send vans bearing the message “go home, or you’ll be picked up and deported” round London was designed to create fear among the public.

    /..
    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/mayor/vince-cable-attacks-tories-over-stupid-and-offensive-immigration-crackdown-8735327.html

  346. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    29 Jul, 2013 - 7:33 am

    @ Doug Scorgie (23h53 yesterday):

    “I wonder how much she { ie, Theresa May }got paid for her story.”
    ______________

    May I remind Doug of his request posted on the “getting back into the water” thread at 21h06 on 26 July, which read as follows :

    “When putting points of view forward your opinions must be supported; you should produce your evidence and explain why this evidence supports your point of view; if used, you should always quote sources and give references”.

    Off you go, laddy.

  347. @FJ – signs of an early election, the Torah Party is simply in your face electioneering on its main plank immigration platform with tax payers money. With satanyahu formulating “referendum” laws well in advance of never to be undertaken bogus “road map” peace negotiations,definitely some surprise coming up.

  348. Flaming June

    29 Jul, 2013 - 7:41 am

    Access to the law is now definitely only available to the well off.

    Legal aid cut and judicial reviews cut.

    http://www.legalweek.com/legal-week/news/2271327/top-qcs-unite-to-criticise-legal-aid-cuts-and-judicial-review-reforms

    Funding to go to a tribunal is cut.

    Fees for employment tribunals begin
    The fees were first proposed by the chancellor two years ago

    People bringing employment tribunals must now pay a fee for the first time since they were created in the 1960s.

    Under the new UK rules, they will have to pay £160 or £250 to lodge a claim, with a further charge of either £230 or £950 if the case goes ahead.

    The higher charges will cover cases like unfair dismissal, the lower ones issues such as unpaid invoices.

    /..
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23482520

    ~~~

    Doug Scorgie I attended the Magistrates’ Court when David Lawley Wakelin was fined and convicted. He lives in Shepperton yet they used a shabby looking court miles away in NW London. A decent man who now has a criminal record cycled there. A travesty as you say. The only amusement was the evidence from his protection plods who had not secured a back door into the court entrance behind Leveson. Thick as the proverbial short planks and it gave encouragement to the thought that one day B.Liar will be arrested for his major crimes.

    Meanwhile, he still roams the planet increasing his wealth. I read the other day that he made £170,000 on the sale of a house that has been bought for one of the sons.

  349. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    29 Jul, 2013 - 8:00 am

    @ Doug Scorgie :

    “Someone
    27 Jul, 2013 – 4:13 pm

    “Brighton man faces jail for calling Hove MP Mike Weatherley ‘coward’”

    Yes Someone, Section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986 is a catch all law that has been misused by the police and state numerous times for over 20 years.

    The same law was used against David Lawley-Wakelin who interrupted the Leveson inquiry when Blair was giving “evidence”.”
    ________________

    Well, I thought the discussion was supposed to be about the Weatherley case, but I have no objection to Mr Scorgie raising the Lawley-Wakelin case if he feels it’s relevant to the Weatherley case.

    Mr Lawley-Wakelin had – and continues to have – numerous possibilities of making plain his feelings about BLiar other than by disrupting a judicial public inquiry in which, by the way, he had no locus.

    Presumably Mr Scorgie would not condone disruption of – to take just a few examples – ordinary court proceedings, religious services, public inquiries and meetings on university campuses. If this assumption is incorrect then it would be interesting to hear more from him on the subject.

    Free speech, it could be argued, does not give every Tom, Dick or Harry the absolute right to shout whatever he wants whenever he wants. That sort of behaviour should be confined – rightly – to blogs such as this one?

    Any way, to get back to the Brighton/Weatherley case: as we’ve had no response from the original poster on whether he would be disposed to follow up on that case and report back, perhaps Mr Scorgie could volonteer to do so? It would be interesting to see what happens in court and whether the alleged disrupter (Mr Cline) is found guilty or acquitted by the magistrates.

    Free speech operates within the confines of law in all countries.

  350. Flaming June

    29 Jul, 2013 - 8:03 am

    I see that Villager replied to my deliberate ‘silly’ post by indulging in some more of his silly preaching. Surely he knows it is the silly season!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silly_season

  351. Sofia Kibo Noh

    29 Jul, 2013 - 8:07 am

    @Doug and Flaming

    Do you detect the sound of barrels being scraped in far-off Haifa?

    Would you like to help restore Team Hasbarakuk’s “skill and strategies for public diplomacy”?

    Yes? Then wish no more. Just click http://shagririm.haifa.ac.il/ and get started on a wonderful new career.

  352. Doug Scorgie at 9:44 pm:

    “Habbabkuk, if you want to start a discussion about political, social or human rights abuses in ANY country please do so. Perhaps there could meaningful intercourse on the subject.”

    There would be little point in that, Doug. What would inevitably happen would be that a Murrayista would find some instance of Western support for that country’s regime in the past, or blame the situation on colonialism, and the finger of blame would be pointed straight back at the West!

  353. Flaming June

    29 Jul, 2013 - 8:23 am

    Bradley Manning’s ‘trial’ contd.

    Hanging judge, kangaroo court, etc etc.

    “The Government has pushed this case beyond the bounds of legal propriety. If the Government meant ‘information’, it should have charged information,” explains defense attorney David Coombs in legal filings last week.

    Two years ago, Army PFC Bradley Manning was charged with five counts of stealing government property, in violation of federal statute 18 U.S.C. 641. He faces 21 total charges for providing WikiLeaks with classified information at the court martial entering its final stage. After the Government rested its case against PFC Manning, defense lawyer David Coombs detailed how the evidence presented did not support those five 18 U.S.C. 641 charges. He appealed to military judge Col. Denise Lind to dismiss them outright; however, she let them stand. Shockingly, she then stepped away from her role as the “finder of fact,” and into a clearly partisan role by allowing the Government to significantly alter its charges on July 24, 2013–long after all legal arguments had been made.

    /..
    http://www.bradleymanning.org/featured/manning-judge-alters-charges-to-assist-govt-ahead-of-verdict

    Transcripts here https://pressfreedomfoundation.org/bradley-manning-transcripts

  354. Sofia Kibo Noh

    29 Jul, 2013 - 8:36 am

    @Anon. 8 11am

    Thanks.

    You got it in a nutshell.

    “…the finger of blame would be pointed straight back at the West!”

    Now that you are, at last, getting the the hang of explaining how the New World Disorder works I’m off to enjoy the outdoors, secure in the knowledge that you can explain to Dad the futility of genuine debate.

  355. One of H’s recurrent questions, replayed above:

    I was just wondering why the Eminences are so vocal about human rights in the US and the west in general (and human rights abuses perpetrated by these countries elsewhere) but remain rather silent when it comes to human rights abuses perpetrated by other countries.

    Have you any idea why this should be so?

    1. Because these are our countries and their allies, and the abuses are conducted in our name. We object.
    2. Because, by and large we are better informed on these countries, being residents of them, and have no desire to expose our ignorance of others.
    3. Because we are actively interested in specific countries or regions. Our choice, not yours.

    Any permutation or combination of the above.

    And do feel free to post your informed thoughts on Eritrea/Somalia/Azerbaijan/wherever. With references or other salient evidence. How do you view Mugabe’s forthcoming inevitable election? What is the price of wheat in Belorus? And, if you can bring yourself to so much as consider the matter, do you think it even possible that the imminent talks between the Israeli Palestinians and the Israeli Zionists in New York will end in something other than complete failure, and why?

    So many questions. But we Eminences note that you excrescences don’t even try to do answers. Let alone justify them.

    Pissant.

  356. Flaming June, And they changed their own laws to hold Bradley Manning in prison longer than was legal. The United States has no sense of what is legal any more. I feel sorry for its people.

  357. Komodo, thanks. I echo that view. Last night Phil @ 7.54 pm asked me what figures I had to justify my conclusion that famous people were much more likely to die in crashes than ordinary individuals. I put together some figures that showed that famous people were 26 times more likely to die in plane crashes than what would be expected. Nobody commented probably because they do not want to bring attention to the fact that my conclusion was right and that is one of the reasons why we should stop going off at a tangent to feed the trolls.

  358. Sofia Kibo Noh

    29 Jul, 2013 - 9:09 am

    John Goss
    28 Jul, 2013 – 10:33 pm

    Re famous People are 26 times more likely to die in plane accidents.

    Thanks for doing the research.

    The trolls won’t answer because they can’t, but I’ve glad they sent you off on that productive tangent. Your effort wasn’t wasted.

    Now I’m definitely off out for the day.

  359. Flaming June

    29 Jul, 2013 - 9:17 am

    I echo Sofia’s comment John. Thanks.

  360. Thanks for the link to Shagirim, Sophia. I note that one of the Ambassadors is a Mr. Stuart Palmer, who is also involved in the Coalition of Hasbara Volunteers …(you’d really think that ‘Hasbara’ is getting to be such a dirty word, they’d think of a new euphemism, but no)

    My enthusiasm for defending the destruction of Palestinian crops, the construction of new settlements for Americans and Europeans ‘returning’ to the land G-d and Lloyd George so generously gave them, for live trials of new weaponry on a nearby ghetto new homeland for non-Jews, and all the other wonderful things Israel does, led me further:

    http://www.esra-magazine.com/blog/post/battle-hearts-mind

    He even likes Melanie Phillips. And pro-Israel propaganda (sic). Er. Stuart, we don’t actually call it that, do we? Or have we suddenly discovered honesty?

    If you would like to become involved in pro-Israel propaganda contact Stuart Palmer, Director Blog (redacted) Tel (redacted) , Mobile (redacted) Email:(redacted)

    Redactions by me -K

  361. ‘Destabilize, demoralize and dismantle’. That is the ConDem plan for the NHS.

    NHS Direct seeks to completely pull out of the 111 service. So what happens next?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-23465966

  362. Thanks Sofia and Flaming June. I got a blog out of the work.

    http://johngossip.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/dont-get-on-plane-with-somebody-famous.html

  363. Jonathan Cook on the Guardian and Palestinian refugees

    http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1375085208.html

  364. Useful point, Dreoilin. And one which had escaped me.

    UNRWA is a United Nations agency established by the General Assembly in 1949 and is mandated to provide assistance and protection to a population of some 5 million registered Palestine refugees. Its mission is to help Palestine refugees in Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, West Bank and the Gaza Strip to achieve their full potential in human development, pending a just solution to their plight. UNRWA’s services encompass education, health care, relief and social services, camp infrastructure and improvement, and microfinance.

    Financial support to UNRWA has not kept pace with an increased demand for services caused by growing numbers of registered refugees, expanding need, and deepening poverty. As a result, the Agency’s General Fund (GF), supporting UNRWA’s core activities and 97 per cent reliant on voluntary contributions, has begun each year with a large projected deficit. Currently the deficit stands at US$ 58.5 million.

    http://www.unrwa.org/etemplate.php?id=1830

  365. More than 99,000 signatures on the Nobel Peace Prize for Bradley Manning campaign. The support is phenomenal.

    http://act.rootsaction.org/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=7612&track=MM&tag=MM

  366. Any applicants? £60k

    MI5′s Mystery Ad For Health And Safety Chief

    The security service wants someone to ensure its operations are safe but candidates will hardly be told any details about the job.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1121623/mi5s-mystery-ad-for-health-and-safety-chief

    LOL

    There are sixteen current vacancies
    https://www.mi5.gov.uk/careers/current-jobs.aspx

  367. Garda Karmi and B.Liar’s stooge Lord Levy! on the ‘peace’ talks. Radio 4 Today this am.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01ddq8t

  368. “Father of Edward Snowden issues open letter to Obama denouncing “Orwellian surveillance programs””

    http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/07/29/snow-j29.html

  369. 2hrs 50mins in on http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b037gxx1

    On the same topic and later in the programme.

    Israeli and Palestinian negotiators are to resume stalled peace talks in Washington on Monday, the US State Department has announced. Bronwen Maddox, a British-based Anglo-American journalist, and Simon Tisdall, an assistant editor at the Guardian, discuss how effective the talks will be.

  370. “Lord Levy”

    “Chai Patel (1.5m), Sir David Garrard (1m) and Barry Townsley (1m) all gave this money to Lord Levy (Blair’s bagman). It has now been revealed that over £14 million in loans was raised by Levy before the 2005 election.”

    http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=6382&st=0

  371. Komodo says:

    Because these are our countries and their allies, and the abuses are conducted in our name. We object.

    An excellent observation. Throughout this thread and others too, the hasbara vermin constantly point out the same feeble, weak, inane propositions; why don’t you talk about this abuse, instead of that?

    Further, these foreign interests pedler brigade, constantly refer to the West as an extension of their own property, as manifested by the disdain that is apportioned to anyone of us who wish to put our own house in order!

    These pissant foreign support elements verily believe we are tenets in our own lands in the West,. Hence, in a fashion after their treatment of the Palestinians, these hasbara vermin decry our attempts making our lands a better place to live in . It is high time that these elements were reminded, that our gracious tolerance in allowing these foreign interest pedlers to comment on matters concerning our own affairs, somehow does not imply ownership of the West and matters thereof to these neo settlers.

    You nave raised very good points, and these points should be elaborated further, and more comprehensively in a rebuttal to the constant of torrent of the evident disdain at directed at those who are intent on making the West a better place. Further, it should be explained that the simple assumption of these hasbara vermin being; anyone who criticises them must be a “Muslim”, “Arab”, …. etc. is the basis for these neo settlers to dream of owning the West!

  372. Was posting this when my “internet service provider” chopped me off suddenly. Maybe something to do with the thunder, lightning and heavy rain!

    “Thousands of birds in UK zoos are victims of ‘pinioning’, a practice where the end of one wing is permanently amputated. Pinioned goosePinioning is carried out on baby birds at only a few days old, usually without any pain relief. Why? To prevent them from escaping from captivity and so zoo visitors can get close to them. These birds will be disabled for life and will never fly.

    “Add your name to the petition below to demand an end to this cruel practice and to tell the zoo industry and the government: Mutilating any animal to keep them in captivity is never acceptable!”

    http://www.captiveanimals.org/bird-petition

  373. WRONG.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2013/jul/29/hamas-gaza

    Plays into the enemy’s hands, and makes you look insecure, Hamas. Revoke the ban immediately. Even if the item is malicious Saudi/Fatah propaganda.

  374. Unexplained death of “white hat” hacker

    Famed hacker Barnaby Jack dies a week before hacking convention

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/27/us-hacker-death-idUSBRE96P0K120130727

  375. Flaming June

    29 Jul, 2013 - 1:20 pm

    The witch is dead!

    BREAKING NEWS:Lady Thatcher’s funeral cost taxpayers £1.2 million, according to figures released by the government

    I would have dig a hole here for a fiver and she could have laid alongside the remains of two dear cats and two dear dogs.

  376. “Obama’s SEAL Team 6 Coverup – Explosive Paul Craig Roberts Interview”

    http://xrepublic.tv/node/4607

  377. http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/28/us-palestinians-israel-indyk-idUSBRE96R0FN20130728

    Indyk. Who he? Oh, yes…

    http://mondoweiss.net/2013/07/how-fair-is-martin-indyk-who-says-he-was-motivated-by-my-connection-to-israel.html

    After the spectacular failure of Camp David negotiations that he helped conduct in 2000, Indyk was characterized by former Palestinian negotiator Mohammed Dahlan as having a pro-Israel bias and “advanced negative attitudes toward Palestinians.”

    While former Palestinian negotiator Nabil Shaath said that Indyk was “partial, biased, pro-Israel” and defended Israeli settlements more than Israelis did.

    Just the man.

  378. NSA Director = Bilderberg attendee

    http://www.publicintelligence.net/?p=1006

  379. Dreoilin 29 Jul, 2013 – 1:27 pm
    “NSA Director = Bilderberg attendee http://www.publicintelligence.net/?p=1006

    The source of the claim on that link seems to be an unattributed list of names provided by alex jones.

  380. You might like this better, Phil-

    http://info.publicintelligence.net/bilderberg-members-2009-press-release.pdf

    Looks unimpeachable to me, but maybe it’s a forgery?

    Mandelson and Shell figure prominently too.

  381. Mandelson was there this year, too, in exactly the same influence-sucking an entirely different capacity. Ed Balls also outed as a globalist. Labour, eh? Gotta love them.

    This year’s list:

    http://vigilantcitizen.com/latestnews/bilderberg-2013-the-official-attendees-list/

  382. Hmmm. Not completely disabled then?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKZwOSdoeeA

    I’ll check back in a while and see if the report’s still there….

  383. doug scorgie

    29 Jul, 2013 - 2:18 pm

    Flaming June
    28 Jul, 2013 – 12:36 pm

    “Are the Palestinians considered to be ‘citizens’? Will they get a vote?”

    “Israeli cabinet backs referendum bill for peace process”

    “The Israeli cabinet has approved a bill requiring any peace deal with the Palestinians to be put to a referendum.”

    Mary, Palestinians living in Israel (“proper”) will get to vote.

    No Palestinians in the West Bank will be able to vote. However all Jewish settlers in the west bank will have the vote.

    That’s Israeli democracy for you.

  384. Thanks Komodo.
    I can’t check – my connection’s too wonky;

  385. Komodo 29 Jul, 2013 – 2:03 pm
    “You might like this better, Phil-http://info.publicintelligence.net/bilderberg-members-2009-press-release.pdf”

    I wonder where these lists come from. Are there any attendance lists whose provenance is endorsed by someone we might trust?

    Both the official lists I looked at lack all the military/spooks names that the unofficial lists have.

    According to foi request doc from the us gov, the general secretary of the tuc attended in 1996: http://www.dod.mil/pubs/foi/International_security_affairs/other/824.pdf

  386. Dreoilin at 12.39 pm.

    Signed and spread.

  387. Ok, the nsa director alexander is listed on the official bilderberg list for 2012:

    http://www.bilderbergmeetings.org/participants2012.html

  388. Are there any attendance lists whose provenance is endorsed by someone we might trust?

    Depends who you trust, doesn’t it? And where you find the endorsement. F’rinstance if I found a authentic-looking mediaeval document outlining the early history of the Illuminati lizards on the David Icke site, with the annotation, “This document has been verified and is confirmed genuine by Jesus Christ”, my disbelief would be automatic. But there’s no particular reason to lie about Alexander’s attendance at Bilderberg – he seems like a probable attendee, indeed – and less still to forge document facsimiles, such as the one I linked, to encourage that belief. The balance of probability is that he was, IMO. That’s my null hypothesis. Got a better one? Tell us, with at least as much adduced evidence, please.

    Personally, I’m much more worried that oleaginous crawling vermin like Mandelson are encouraged (it’s by invitation) to promote their personal agendas at these functions. Someone whose record is an unbroken catalogue of policies adopted and actions taken in his own interest alone is not someone I like to think is influencing global events in any way at all.

  389. Press TV’s video article “Google blocks Press TV’s access to its YouTube account”….on YouTube….is still up. (re. mine at 2.13)

  390. Someone 29 Jul, 2013 – 12:26 pm
    “Father of Edward Snowden…denouncing “Orwellian surveillance programs””

    He has moved from calling for his son to come home to campaigning the issues. Good man. Can’t have been easy.

  391. To be honest I am not overly interested in bilderberg attendees. I certainly wasn’t suggesting alexander didn’t attend – I just happened to notice the source in the original link.

    I’m sure the powerful have numerous ways to communicate informally and maybe bilderbrg is an anachronism that will fade as light shines upon it.

  392. Navalny: thoughtful piece here:

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7a3c701c-f78b-11e2-87ec-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2aRrSTVFB

    More than meets the eye?

  393. Wired report the US is researching a technology, to be sold as a convenience, that could be described as crowd-sourcing intelligence gathering.

    Wired seem to suggest the hope is that this system, developed by the government, will be widely and voluntarily adopted, led by the business community.

    Phone calls immediately transcribed into text files: http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/03/darpa-speech/

  394. “I’m sure the powerful have numerous ways to communicate informally and maybe bilderbrg is an anachronism that will fade as light shines upon it.”

    Bilderberg is more like a lightning conductor, in my opinion. There are others of these policy forming groups – the Trilateral Commission and the Council on Foreign Relations, for example – of which we know less, and undoubtedly others of which we know nothing. The fact that the MSM is prepared to publicise the Bilderberg meetings is suspicious and probably means that it is fairly low level as these things go. There are no Rothschilds on the BIlderberg list, for example – they feel it’s sufficient to send their messenger boy Mandelson along.
    Let the masses vent their spleen on Bilderberg while the real business takes place elsewhere.

  395. Flaming June

    29 Jul, 2013 - 6:06 pm

    Ray McGovern on the Edward Snowden case.

    Puttin’ the Pressure on Putin
    By Ray McGovern

    The Obama administration continues to compound the diplomatic mess around former NSA contractor Edward Snowden. The latest blunder was announcing that the U.S. wouldn’t torture or execute Snowden, a reminder to the world how far Official Washington has strayed from civilized behavior, notes ex-CIA analyst Ray McGovern.

    July 28, 2013

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article35681.htm

  396. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    29 Jul, 2013 - 6:49 pm

    Putin needs the G20 until BRICS is fully operational, June. Plus he’s got his own domestic troubles with dissidence and he doesn’t need another rash of headaches over one person.

    Holder and the other empty suits are busy with other headaches, as well. DOJ has spent 10,000 man hours chasing after the DOTcom guy in NZ, but I think a lot of folks see his assurances that no death penalty and no torture is like the old saying “fool me once…..” and the suit becomes like the Emperors new clothes. Congress is ratcheting up more anti-section 215 legislation and at this point, I think we can declare Snowden’s actions a victory from a public relations standpoint. For the first time since 9/11 a majority of Americans see civil liberties as most important than their so-called ‘security’ from terrorism.

  397. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    29 Jul, 2013 - 6:53 pm

    @ Anon

    “Doug Scorgie at 9:44 pm:

    “Habbabkuk, if you want to start a discussion about political, social or human rights abuses in ANY country please do so. Perhaps there could meaningful intercourse on the subject.”

    There would be little point in that, Doug. What would inevitably happen would be that a Murrayista would find some instance of Western support for that country’s regime in the past, or blame the situation on colonialism, and the finger of blame would be pointed straight back at the West!”
    ________________

    Exactly my thought as well, Anon.

  398. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    29 Jul, 2013 - 7:01 pm

    For those who rely on counterpoint for discussion, it’s deadly to proffer a premise which just might get shot down. Such risk is above their pay grade.

  399. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    29 Jul, 2013 - 7:08 pm

    @ Passerby (and, tangentially, Komodo) – 12h45 :

    “Komodo says:

    Because these are our countries and their allies, and the abuses are conducted in our name. We object.

    An excellent observation. Throughout this thread and others too, the hasbara vermin constantly point out the same feeble, weak, inane propositions; why don’t you talk about this abuse, instead of that?”
    ____________

    Wow, one “pissant” and three “hasbara vermin”, not to mention signs of great emotion in the grammar and structure of your post at 12h45! My comment and Anon’s excellent follow-up comment obviously got under someone’s skin! :)

    Anyway : nobody here is asking you or the other Eminences to talk about “this abuse” rather than “that abuse” – we just wonder why you don’t talk about both.

    The only reason you don’t that occurs to me is that you think human rights are divisible – omportant for the West to maintain, not important for others.

    That’s probably it, isn’t it.

  400. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    29 Jul, 2013 - 7:18 pm

    @ Flaming June (13h20)

    “BREAKING NEWS:Lady Thatcher’s funeral cost taxpayers £1.2 million, according to figures released by the government

    I would have dig a hole here for a fiver and she could have laid alongside the remains of two dear cats and two dear dogs.”
    ________________

    And I seem to recall that you, my dear, at the time, were waxing indignant that the funeral would cost £10 million.

    Some of us tried to tell you, but you wouldn’t listen. It would be a lot less than that, and the Thatcher family would be paying for a lot of it, we told you.

    Time for hat, eating of, methinks. Bon appétit!

    (Likely response from F.J. : “oh, it wasn’t actually me who said that, I was just passing on info from the msm” :) )

  401. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    29 Jul, 2013 - 7:28 pm

    @ Mr Scorgie (14h18) :

    ““The Israeli cabinet has approved a bill requiring any peace deal with the Palestinians to be put to a referendum.”

    Mary, Palestinians living in Israel (“proper”) will get to vote.

    No Palestinians in the West Bank will be able to vote. However all Jewish settlers in the west bank will have the vote.

    That’s Israeli democracy for you.”
    __________________

    Yes, indeed.

    Have you perchance forgotten to mention that President Mahmoud Abbas has said that the Palestinians will also be asked to vote in their own referendum on any peace deal?

    Which seems rather fair to me – both sides to any peace deal will have their say in referenda.

  402. Flaming June

    29 Jul, 2013 - 7:44 pm

    Jackpot again. Three lemons in a row.

  403. Flaming June

    29 Jul, 2013 - 7:53 pm

    There has just been a bad head-on railway accident in Switzerland in which 44 people have been injured.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1121900/swiss-train-crash-44-passengers-injured

    I always believed that Swiss trains were particularly safe but not so according to this article.

    http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss_news/Swiss_rail_accidents_raise_safety_questions.html?cid=35219000

    This really is bad news especially coming so soon after the coach accident in Italy and the train derailment in Spain in the last few days.

  404. Israel getting its sticky fingers into India`s communications systems.

    http://thehackernews.com/2013/07/israels-verint-systems-get-contract.html

  405. Earlier today I wrote it needed less than 3,000 signatures to reach the target 100,000 for the Nobel Peace Prize for Bradley Manning. Now it needs less than 200.

    http://act.rootsaction.org/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=7612&track=MM&tag=MM

  406. doug scorgie

    29 Jul, 2013 - 8:04 pm

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)
    29 Jul, 2013 – 7:33 am

    @ Doug Scorgie (23h53 yesterday):

    “I wonder how much she { ie, Theresa May }got paid for her story.”

    “May I remind Doug of his request posted on the “getting back into the water” thread at 21h06 on 26 July, which read as follows :”

    “When putting points of view forward your opinions must be supported; you should produce your evidence and explain why this evidence supports your point of view; if used, you should always quote sources and give references”.

    “Off you go, laddy.”

    Habbabkuk, how is saying, “I wonder how much she got paid for her story”, putting forward a point of view?

    Your incompetence in logic and argument is breath-taking for all to see.

  407. Flaming June

    29 Jul, 2013 - 8:05 pm

    Jonathan Cook on Gibney’s film about Julian Assange.

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/07/29/the-assassination-of-julian-assange/

  408. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    29 Jul, 2013 - 8:17 pm

    @ Mr Scorgie

    “Habbabkuk, how is saying, “I wonder how much she got paid for her story”, putting forward a point of view?”
    ___________________

    Your point of view, which you express as fact, is that Theresa May “got paid”. Your only question was “how much”.

    Evidence, sources, references to back up your point of view please, Mr Scorgie.

  409. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    29 Jul, 2013 - 8:21 pm

    @ Flaming June

    £10 million claimed, £1,2 million actual cost.

    How did your hat taste? :)

  410. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!) 29 Jul, 2013 – 8:21 pm
    “How did your hat taste? :)
    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!) 22 Jul, 2013 – 8:52 pm
    “I think [the dark glasses] give me that rather natty look. If I could add a trilby, I would!”

  411. Flaming June

    29 Jul, 2013 - 8:45 pm

    Sorry. I never wear hats unlike the royal hangers-on who spends £thousands and thousands on millinery.

    Plus Plus Plus… we will never know the true cost.

    Margaret Thatcher’s funeral cost taxpayers more than £3m
    Cabinet Office confirms policing and security costs for former prime minister’s funeral in April
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jul/29/margaret-thatcher-funeral-cost-taxpayers

    Nota Bene Never, ever, believe anything this ‘government tells you.

  412. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    29 Jul, 2013 - 8:46 pm

    The Manning verdict to be read Tuesday 1 pm EST.

    http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/07/29-1

  413. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    29 Jul, 2013 - 8:48 pm

    Is that a grey hat, A Node? I’d have thought it were black or white.

  414. You read this here first! (bet your butt you will not read about anywhere else)

    Saudi forces have laid siege, surrounding al Awamia district in Qatif in the eastern provinces, and have been shooting at the residents. The fires started by the fire fight have destroyed many houses, many people are injured and many more dead.

  415. doug scorgie

    29 Jul, 2013 - 8:56 pm

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)
    29 Jul, 2013 – 8:00 am

    “Free speech operates within the confines of law in all countries.”

    Habbabkuk, some laws are so broadly defined that it gives the police and like-minded magistrates the opportunity to abuse people who they view as being from a different class or have a different political persuasion to that of the state.

    I agree that freedom of speech should have legal constraints but those constraints must be tightly defined and not open to misinterpretation and abuse by the authorities.

    “Saudi Arabia’s Specialized Criminal Court sentenced a prominent human rights activist to five years in prison on June 17, 2013, based on his writings and exposure of human rights abuses. Mikhlif al-Shammari was convicted of “sowing discord” and other offenses and barred from travelling for 10 years.”

    http://www.hrw.org/news/2013/06/22/saudi-arabia-5-year-sentence-rights-defender

    He was charged with actions that are illegal in Saudi Arabia so he is, from what you said above (“Free speech operates within the confines of law in all countries.”) guilty as charged.

    As to Section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986 there are many detractors:

    “The Public Order Act prohibits such actions if they are deemed likely to cause “harassment, alarm or distress”.

    “A student was reportedly arrested for calling a police officer’s horse “gay”.

    “Senior CONSERVATIVE David Davis said the law – which the government is looking at changing – could have a “chilling effect on democracy”.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18084081

    And I’m sure you know this phrase:

    “Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don’t want to hear.”

  416. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    29 Jul, 2013 - 9:05 pm

    thx fedup

    http://english.irib.ir/radioislam/news/islam-in-asia/item/87650-saudi-regime-burn-cars-houses-during-operation-to-arrest-rights-activist

    Human rights on the march. Power is not relinquished easily. It must be won

    Mohandas

    “The cry for peace will be a cry in the wilderness, so long as the spirit of nonviolence does not dominate millions of men and women.

    An armed conflict between nations horrifies us. But the economic war is no better than an armed conflict. This is like a surgical operation. An economic war is prolonged torture. And its ravages are no less terrible than those depicted in the literature on war properly so called. We think nothing of the other because we are used to its deadly effects. …

    The movement against war is sound. I pray for its success. But I cannot help the gnawing fear that the movement will fail if it does not touch the root of all evil — man’s greed.

  417. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    29 Jul, 2013 - 9:20 pm

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/28/jfk-second-shooter-documentary_n_3667317.html

    “Addressing the crowd, McLaren claimed that Hickey and other Secret Service agents were out partying the night before Kennedy’s fatal motorcade drive through Dallas. Based on his painstaking investigation, McLaren said, evidence suggests Hickey was not qualified to use the weapon he was holding the morning of the shooting.

    “It was his first time in the follow car, his first time holding the assault weapon he was using,” McLaren said. Producers said the film’s theory is that shots rang out, and Hickey grabbed his weapon to return fire. When his car stopped suddenly, Hickey accidentally discharged his weapon — making him the second shooter, the film’s investigators and producers alleged.”

    Gawd. They keep trying. The problem is, the guy was in the follow car. This is one of the linchpins of the multiple shooter scenario. Zap’s film clearly shows Kennedy was shot from the front, as the physics of impact would force the head forward, not back if the 2nd shot hit from the ‘follow’ car. Try again. I’m sure they will.

  418. ‘Is This The Most Embarrassing Interview Fox News Has Ever Done?’

    “Reza Aslan, a religious scholar with a Ph.D. in the sociology of religions from the University of California and author of the new book, Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth, went on FoxNews.com’s online show Spirited Debate to promote his book, only to be prodded about why a Muslim would write a historical book about Jesus.”

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/is-this-the-most-embarrassing-interview-fox-news-has-ever-do

  419. “Is that a grey hat, A Node? I’d have thought it were black or white.”

    I got it from the mad hatter, Ben, extra large size.

  420. Flaming June

    29 Jul, 2013 - 9:36 pm

    29 July 2013
    Car key immobiliser hack revelations blocked by UK court
    Megamos Crypto transponders are built into car keys to disable the vehicles’ engine immobilisers

    Related Stories
    Car hackers ‘drive’ car with laptop
    Car control systems ‘vulnerable’

    A High Court judge has blocked three security researchers from publishing details of how to crack a car immobilisation system.

    German car maker Volkswagen and French defence group Thales obtained the interim ruling after arguing that the information could be used by criminals.

    The technology is used by several car manufacturers.

    The academics had planned to present the information at a conference in August.

    The three researchers are Flavio Garcia, a computer science lecturer at the University of Birmingham, and Baris Ege and Roel Verdult, security researchers at Radboud University Nijmegen in the Netherlands.

    /..
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23487928

  421. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    29 Jul, 2013 - 9:40 pm

    Pam Geller, as usual is taking the lead on this Dreoilin.

    Jesus was a prophet according to the Quran. Not to mention Moses and the other Patriarchs.

    Islam was a direct descendant of Judaism through Abraham’s concubine Hagar. He was growing impatient with YHWH’s promise of providing the seed leading to the Lamb. He had relations with Hagar and a son was born. Ishmael and Hagar were banished when Sara (Abes wife) finally conceived and birthed Isaac in her 90′s. It’s perfectly appropriate for a muslim to write of the history of Jesus. They have a history.

  422. Phil, 4.31pm

    Interesting link. Seems to cover exactly the same ground, though, that the NSA has been working on since 1997 – perfecting automatic machine-transcription of voice recordings. Uses exactly the same terms – “word salad” etc – they did back then.

    NSA Transcribing Voice 17 Years Ago
    http://rixstep.com/1/20130614,00.shtml

    On US Patent 5,937,422 & ‘Semantic Forests’
    http://rixstep.com/2/20130614,00.shtml

  423. fedup, ben, dreoilin: thanks for links. also suhayl on counterrevolution thread.

  424. Flaming June
    29 Jul, 2013 – 1:20 pm

    The witch is dead!

    “BREAKING NEWS:Lady Thatcher’s funeral cost taxpayers £1.2 million, according to figures released by the government”

    Not according to the Guardian Mary:

    “The overall cost of Lady Thatcher’s funeral to the taxpayer was around £3.2m, the Cabinet Office said on Monday.”

    “In a written ministerial statement, Lord Wallace of Saltaire, a government whip, said the direct policing and security costs were £943,833 and the costs of the funeral itself were £261,976.”

    BUT:

    “The Cabinet Office also confirmed the “opportunity cost” of the policing – the cost of having 4,000 officers guarding the funeral and hence not available for duties elsewhere – was estimated at £2m.”

    AND:

    “More than 700 members of the armed forces were also involved in the event in April, but the Cabinet Office said it did not have an “opportunity cost” for their deployment because this was much harder to calculate than for the police.”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jul/29/margaret-thatcher-funeral-cost-taxpayers

    I wonder if they took the cost of the funeral rehearsal into account as well.

  425. I am looking forward to the internet being restricted.
    To be fair the only real use it will serve is an on line shop.
    Won’t it then be so simple?

    Ps Who likes shopping?

  426. Komodo: Fine points. I recall being challenged about why I wasn’t demonstrating in front of the Iranian embassy, because I didn’t like our own country attacking an unarmed country (Iraq) which had done nothing to us. Neat, eh? If you’re not willing to protest one country for its human rights record, you have no business criticising your own country’s war crimes.

    This highly useful ploy only has a couple of problems. For one, an Iranian might ask why I’m not complaining about my own country. The question itself fails to consider that I might already (for instance, through Amnesty) be calling on Iran to respect human rights.

    But surely, Iran is doing nothing in my name, and is not being run by my supposed representatives. And there are so many countries with bad records from which to choose, not all of them Official Enemies. A lot of the nastier governments are Official Friends, or at least, have no effective official attention paid to them at all.

    As the old saying goes, charity begins at home (and usually stays there). One shouldn’t expect too much else when it comes to protests either, that hardly represents a moral failing.

    *

    Jon: I replied to your message to me on censorship in these forums, btw.

  427. “It’s perfectly appropriate for a muslim to write of the history of Jesus. They have a history.”

    But of course, Ben. Just as a Christian with a PhD in the history of religions would feel perfectly entitled to write about Muhammad.

    The Fox woman just came across as ignorant. What has Pamela Geller got to say? More ignorance and bias?

  428. Why dose it take some folk so long to Pipe up

    Anyway 17 MEPs have written a letter calling on U.S. President Barack Obama and Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel to free WikiLeaks whistle-blower Army Pfc. Bradley Manning. The MEPs laud Manning for exposing “evidence of human rights abuses and apparent war crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan” in accordance with international law.

    “Bradley Manning’s courageous action, for which he has three times been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize, was an inspiration to others, including Edward Snowden, who recently revealed massive U.S. government surveillance in the U.S. and also against European governments and citizens.

    We are concerned that the U.S. administration’s war on whistleblowers such as Edward Snowden and Bradley Manning is a deterrent to the process of democracy in both the United States and Europe.

    We hereby urge you to end the persecution of Bradley Manning, a young gay man who has been imprisoned for over three years, including ten months in solitary confinement, under conditions that the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture Juan Mendez deemed “cruel and abusive.” Bradley Manning has already suffered too much, and he should be freed as soon as humanly possible”

    http://www.bradleymanning.org/featured/european-parliamentarians-call-on-president-obama-to-free-bradley-manning

    John @ 8;01pm.
    Only 200 signatures needed – Most exelent

  429. “That most charming of couples: Nationalism and hypocrisy”

    William Blum’s Anti-Empire Report

    http://williamblum.org/aer/read/119

  430. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    29 Jul, 2013 - 11:38 pm

  431. Fedup @ 8;49 Chilling news indeed.

    i reckon you are spot on when you say we would be unlikely to hear of this anywhere else

    A quick Google search produced only 2 pages of….absoultely NOTHING of this news

  432. Arbed at 9.55 pm. These are really good links. Those of us who have been under the monitor for decades, that is everyone who studied Russian during in the Soviet government, everyone who belonged to animal rights (and human rights) movements and left-wing organisations all fell under the umbrella.

    Bob Cryer MP was doing the same thing as Julian Assange nearly a decade earlier. He died in a car-incident. I keep mentioning Bob, not just because I knew him, but because since his death nobody has questioned why we have Menwith Hill and (now) other US communications’ interception stations. He was singular in his day. I believe he was targeted.

    Although the US holds information on all UK citizens and their histories nobody wants to sign an Epetition to try and bring this to an end. You might as well be honest and say yes I do not want my information to be garnered by US intelligence because they already know who you are.

    http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/52312

    I have written to my MP, Steve McCabe, about why we have an American base intercepting our communications. He normally responds. Not with this one. They are all scared shitless.

  433. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    29 Jul, 2013 - 11:48 pm

    “I long for a modern version of the Army-McCarthy hearings of 1954 at which Carney – or much better, Barack Obama himself – is spewing one lie and one sickening defense of his imperialist destruction after another. And the committee counsel (in the famous words of Joseph Welch) is finally moved to declare: “Sir, you’ve done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?” The Congressional gallery burst into applause and this incident is widely marked as the ‘

    I remember that archetypal moment as it was the turning point for McCarthy/Kennedy and the shameless witch-hunts, Dreoilin.

    I think things are getting to that point in Congress and with the American Public. But Nationalism is not just an American problem.

  434. Thanks Ben. I’ll read Geller and head off to bed.

    “But Nationalism is not just an American problem.”

    No, for sure it’s not.

    G’night

  435. Brian, signed and commented.

  436. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)
    29 Jul, 2013 – 7:08 pm

    “Komodo says:

    “Because these are our countries and their allies, and the abuses are conducted in our name. We object.”

    Habbabkuk says:

    “Anyway : nobody here is asking you or the other Eminences to talk about “this abuse” rather than “that abuse” – we just wonder why you don’t talk about both.”

    We do Habbabkuk; we talk about all human rights abuses on this blog (Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, South Africa, Zimbabwe, Milton Keynes).

    Habbabkuk then says:

    “The only reason you don’t that occurs to me is that you think human rights are divisible – omportant [sic] for the West to maintain, not important for others.”

    Human rights should not be divisible Mr Habbabkuk but they are. In the United States blacks have less human rights (in practice) then good old American white boys. Guantanamo Bay needs no further comment.

    Arab-Israeli’s do not have the same rights as Jews. Israel operates an Apartheid system not only in the occupied territories but in Israel itself.

    “Former U.S. general: Settlements liable to turn Israel into an apartheid state”

    “Mattis discussed the dangers to Israel’s future and mentioned the settlements as an example. “If I’m in Jerusalem and I put 500 Jewish settlers out here to the east and there’s 10,000 Arab settlers in here, if we draw the border to include them, either it ceases to be a Jewish state or you say the Arabs don’t get to vote – apartheid.”

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.537867#Scene_1

    “A former South African ambassador to Israel has invited the fury of the Israeli government by describing its treatment of the country’s Palestinian Bedouin community as akin to apartheid.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/10130337/Ex-South-African-Israel-ambassador-likens-Bedouin-treatment-to-apartheid.html

    “More than two-thirds of Israeli Jews say that 2.5 million Palestinians living in the West Bank should be denied the right to vote if the area was annexed by Israel, in effect endorsing an apartheid state, according to an opinion poll reported in Haaretz.”

    “Three out of four are in favour of segregated roads for Israelis and Palestinians in the West Bank, and 58% believe Israel already practises apartheid against Palestinians, the poll found.”

    “A third want Arab citizens within Israel to be banned from voting in elections to the country’s parliament. Almost six out of 10 say Jews should be given preference to Arabs in government jobs, 49% say Jewish citizens should be treated better than Arabs, 42% would not want to live in the same building as Arabs and the same number do not want their children going to school with Arabs.”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/23/israeli-poll-majority-apartheid-policies

    If you want to justify Zionism Habbabkuk (et al) then engage in an intelligent discussion on the points above.

    If you want to talk about Pakistan; Russia; India; China; Cuba etc fair enough but the subject at the moment is human rights abuses by the west mostly the US and Israel.

    Let’s deal with that first.

  437. “A third want Arab citizens within Israel to be banned from voting in elections to the country’s parliament. Almost six out of 10 say Jews should be given preference to Arabs in government jobs, 49% say Jewish citizens should be treated better than Arabs, 42% would not want to live in the same building as Arabs and the same number do not want their children going to school with Arabs.”

    Actually, this sounds analogous to certain attitudes common throughout Northern Ireland not so long ago. The exclusions and protests reflected a deep schism of cultural mistrust and suspicion. While there are still pockets of ingrained bigotry, the situation has vastly improved. Progress has been made by working together and building some degree of trust – quite the opposite of the kind of resolute demonizing still dominating the Israeli/Palestinian relations and associated commentaries.

  438. BrianFujisan

    30 Jul, 2013 - 1:34 am

    Revolting, and indefensible

    So in this country they arrest you for calling MP’s cowards, which most are, in the usa they raid your home and lock you up for facebook babblings
    Oh, and don’t get into a Quarrel with one of “ours”

    Lawsuit: SWAT Officers Dragged 10-Year-Old from Bathtub, Made Him Stand Naked Next to 4-Year-Old Sister, Terrorized Family
    14 police officers with helmets and facemasks and assault rifles stormed in, family says.

    http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/lawsuit-swat-officers-dragged-10-year-old-bathtub-made-him-stand-naked-next-4-year

    WHY ARE THESE PEOPLE NOT BEING ARRESTED IN ISREAL

    This is only a small selection of the representative and typical comments posted under the picture of the three boys in the tent. All of these comments were in Hebrew and have been translated:

    “Disgusting. Burn the tent” – Oriel Diller

    “Eliminate” – Zevika Gvirz

    “Artillery training ‘mistake’ ” – Igor Gonopolskiy

    “Burn them” – Yaron Gringauz

    “May you die garbage Arabs, amen!” – Shahar Dayan

    “Run them over and shoot them. It’s not complicated!” – Elad Sender

    “Take the tent with the people in it, put it on a trailer and dump them back where they came from” – Sharon Carmi

    “A hand grenade inside the tent!” – Dvir Dagan

    “Put a couple of bullets in their heads and we’re done” – Adi Maman

    “Set them on fire” – Yosef Porotzky

    “Fuck them” – Aria Yehudai

    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/castrate-them-burn-them-bullet-head-facebook-israelis-react-photo-palestinian

    John great work on the Famous in Planes stats

  439. @Doug – We have been lied to by the “Yorkshire Methodist” that he is also a “good Catholic boy” but methinks habba might just be another Lithuanian with a Scottish accent like Malcolm Rifkind. But Hoffman or Maxwell or whatever his name is, seems to enjoy flying out of Manchester to play volleyball with the DIY trannies on Tel Aviv beach.Might even be a “Lady Porter” in tax exile?

  440. Flaming June

    30 Jul, 2013 - 7:22 am

    Doug Ref the cost of Thatcher’s funeral.

    I was asked if I had eaten my hat!

    I said:

    Sorry. I never wear hats unlike the royal hangers-on who spend £thousands and thousands on millinery.

    Plus Plus Plus… we will never know the true cost.

    Margaret Thatcher’s funeral cost taxpayers more than £3m
    Cabinet Office confirms policing and security costs for former prime minister’s funeral in April

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jul/29/margaret-thatcher-funeral-cost-taxpayers

    Nota Bene Never, ever, believe anything this ‘government’ tells you.

  441. Sofia Kibo Noh

    30 Jul, 2013 - 7:59 am

    @Komodo, Brian, Doug and generic Eministas.

    Thanks for addressing Dad’s moan that we only have eyes for western abuses.

    Yes, it does boil down “to the abuses are conducted in our name. We object.”

    @Dad! You are welcome to broaden the debate. Let’s see who else is in the league. We might then be able to compare and see which states come out on top. Your call now.

  442. Habba:

    Douche.

  443. I mean… buying this line…really.

    Have you perchance forgotten to mention that President Mahmoud Abbas has said that the Palestinians will also be asked to vote in their own referendum on any peace deal?

    Which seems rather fair to me – both sides to any peace deal will have their say in referenda.

    1. There won’t be a peace deal. The facts on the ground are established. The US will not pressure Israel to dismantle its illegal settlements or vacate East Jerusalem, far less return Jerusalem as a whole to its status as a multi-faith city or allow free and unrestricted access between the various Palestinian enclaves.

    2. When Gaza voted Hamas in, the Israelis were forced to concede that this was an acceptably free and fair election. Then they not only branded Hamas a terrorist organisation and refused to have any dealings with it, but coerced the US and Europe to do the same. Do you seriously think that any referendum by the West Bank, if not in the interests of European and American Jewish immigrants, will have any leverage at all? If the Jews vote against this hypothetical deal, that will be enough to scupper it.
    2.

  444. That the whataboutry Excrescences are first, foremost & only Trolls, is revealed beyond any doubt by their refusal to argue their “case” for the accusation regulatory posted here iro of an “anti-West narrative”. KOWN did bother some weeks ago now, to state the blindly obvious in response;

    “No, I genuinely don’t believe in the existence of the ‘anti-West narrative’ that you frequently inveigh against. I do think most posters on this thread are united by disgust and anger for much of what the West does, but that is not the same thing. As for the examples you cite – mistreatment of women in India, for example – I think the reason people don’t post on such issues is simply that these things are universally condemned and hardly worth the effort of pointing out on a forum where it can be tacitly assumed most people are on the same page. What gets people’s goat here, I submit without a trace of faux-naivety, is those instances where there is a chasm between the cruel things the west does and the way they are laundered and perfumed by such organs as the BBC.”

    Of course none of the Excrescences even tried to reply, despite repeated requests to do so; the best & all they can do is keep repeating the accusation, mantra like, just like a piece of religious mumbo-jumbo that is too sacred to be justified, and is in fact beyond rational explanation.

    I repeat my own response to KOWN comment;

    “Well said; that people can’t see the difference, it could because of experiencing a mirror projection of their own reflected prejudices, or perhaps even be indicative of some sort of mental disorder, which would also account for why these same people repeatedly insist that others must publically condemn that which only the most unprincipled would ever consider condoning.”

  445. Sofia Kibo Noh

    30 Jul, 2013 - 9:13 am

    @Hasbarakuk.

    Come on Dad! Don’t be so shy.

  446. It’s his morning at the Aldi checkout, Sifia.

  447. Sofia, apologies.

  448. Sofia Kibo Noh

    30 Jul, 2013 - 9:35 am

    @Komodom.

    No offense taken

  449. heh

  450. Approximately 18% of the West Bank has been designated as a closed military zone for training, or “firing
    zone”; this is roughly the same amount of the West Bank under full Palestinian authority (Area A, 17.7%)….

    Most of the families residing in or near the firing zones are herders, who rely on grazing
    land for their livelihood. They routinely face restrictions on grazing livestock in these
    areas and are subject to substantial fines and/or imprisonment. Reduced access to grazing areas has resulted in increased dependency on fodder and the overgrazing of some areas, both of which contribute to diminished livelihoods.

    Residents of firing zones face a range of other difficulties including the confiscation of property, settler violence, harassment by soldiers, access and movement restrictions and/or water scarcity. Combined, these conditions [others are listed on the page - K] contribute to a coercive environment that creates pressure on Palestinian communities to leave these areas.

    http://www.ochaopt.org/documents/ocha_opt_firing_zone_factsheet_august_2012_english.pdf

    The map says the rest.

  451. Aparrently health chiefs as well as making a packet have made an admittance regarding the state of yhe NHS care. Included in the statemen apparrently staff are having to cut care time to individuals and make better appropiations .

    @ Glenn uk.

    What’s going on?

    Ps I love shopping too.

  452. How can anyone deny that ethnic cleansing is the objective? Does this look like Israel contemplating a Palestinian state? Answers, Habba. Answers.

    http://nofiringzone918.org/2013/07/29/amnesty-international-appeals-against-eviction/

    …But answer came there none
    And this was scarcely odd, because
    They’d eaten every one.

    {Lewis Carroll: The Walrus and the Carpenter)

  453. Peace process? Two-state solution? What sort of dreamland are we required to live in, Habba?
    Economy Minister and Jewish Home Chairman Naftali Bennett is the latest MK to join a robust list of Israeli government coalition members who have publicly stated that the two-state solution is dead and that the notion of a Palestinian state is a thing of the past. Although it’s no new position for him, Bennett is making it clear that no matter what Prime Minister Netanyahu says or what polls show, the Israel of 2013 is squarely against a two-state solution.

    Bennett stated that ”the idea of forming a Palestinian state in Israel has reached a dead end,” speaking at a settler council meeting Monday morning, comparing the “Palestinian problem” to a “piece of shrapnel” lodged in someone’s rear end; that one needs to learn to live with a pain in the ass rather than surgically remove it and risk becoming disabled.

    Bennett also asserted there is no occupation, since Israeli Jews cannot be occupiers in their own home (echoing the Netanyahu-commissioned Levy Report from nearly a year ago that concluded there is no occupation) and called on Israel to annex Area C of the West Bank. This is similar to what Likud MK and former Knesset speaker Reuven Rivlin said last year: “Today, almost 20 years since Oslo, one could clearly argue that the idea of separating between the nations has failed … Between the Jordan River and the sea, there can only be one state, Jewish and democratic, with a solid Jewish majority.”

    Translation: It’s safe to come out of the woodwork now, lads. Indyk’s our boy.

    http://972mag.com/one-by-one-israels-coalition-members-abandon-two-state-rhetoric/73829/

  454. “Leftists tend to hate anything that has an image of being strong, good and successful. They hate America, they hate Western civilization, they hate white males, they hate rationality. The reasons that leftists give for hating the West, etc. clearly do not correspond with their real motives. They SAY they hate the West because it is warlike, imperialistic, sexist, ethnocentric and so forth, but where these same faults appear in socialist countries or in primitive cultures, the leftist finds excuses for them, or at best he GRUDGINGLY admits that they exist; whereas he ENTHUSIASTICALLY points out (and often greatly exaggerates) these faults where they appear in Western civilization. Thus it is clear that these faults are not the leftist’s real motive for hating America and the West. He hates America and the West because they are strong and successful.”

    Ted Kaczynski (who had a fine mind before he lost it).

  455. Sofia Kibo Noh

    30 Jul, 2013 - 10:59 am

    @Anon. 10 52am

    “Leftists tend to hate anything…”

    “Ted Kaczynski (who had a fine mind before he lost it).”

    What a pity you quoted his later work.

  456. I don’t see anything on the Press TV YouTube later than five days ago.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/PressTVGlobalNews/videos

    and the story is still up on their website

    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/07/28/316016/google-disables-press-tv-youtube-account/

    where they say

    “We have not been able to upload any new videos since early Thursday,” said Press TV newsroom director, Hamid Reza Emadi, adding that Google has disabled the channel’s account without giving any explanation.

  457. Anon, was that quote from before or after Kacynski having lost his mind? Because it makes perfect sense to me.

  458. It’s the assumption that, er, ‘leftists’ (ie people who do not agree with him on the undiluted wonderfulness of global capitalism)…’hate’. In his lexicon, I am not allowed to ‘deplore’, ‘disparage’, ‘censure’, ‘object to’ or just plain ‘dislike’. No, it’s all or nothing. Possibly because ‘rightists’ are incapable of nuance or precision, and they simply think in soundbites? Or maybe hatred is all they understand?

    Now I’d certainly hate, someone, or an entity, who evicted me from my property without compensation, knocked my house down and built his own on the site. Not for his nationality, but for his actions;

    http://english.cntv.cn/program/newsupdate/20130730/101147.shtml

    I deplore my country’s support for that entity, though. I don’t hate my country, and I don’t hate the West.

  459. Sofia Kibo Noh

    30 Jul, 2013 - 11:19 am

    Around Nablus more than 2500 olive trees were destroyedh in the first two weeks of June.

    The attackers were protected and the firefighters prevented by, guess which army?

    Is this the prelude to a “Peace Process”?

  460. More on the proposed monster rail network connecting the settlements (and further dividing the Palestinian bantustans):

    The rail project, which has been in development for several years and sucked up several million shekels from the budget, appears, at first glance, to be the flagship plan for a future annexation. After all, what country declares that it intends to invest billions in territory not under its sovereignty?

    Since we have not heard that this plan includes checkpoints at the railway stations, screening and X-ray booths, or any special manpower that will make the Palestinians late for their train every morning, one could conclude that the government plans to grant citizenship to the Palestinian train passengers, and that the train is a means to promote the forthcoming binational state.*

    It’s clear to every intelligent person that the Israeli government is playing a childish game of “If only,” and that this fantasy will be buried before even one meter of track is built. Yet the members of the Supreme Planning Council in the occupied territories agreed to back the program. Who would not have wanted to be a fly on the wall during that weird debate?

    Some details leaked out, including the question of why a line was needed in the sparsely populated Jordan Valley. The response of the planner – that the line is meant to transport tourists from the Dead Sea to Lake Kinneret – discloses the degree to which all those involved in this initiative are disengaged from reality.

    http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.538478

    *couldn’t one? The excrescences could.

  461. I’m nervous about the verdict in the Bradley Manning trial. They’ll be so anxious to make an example of him …

    “That’s an outrageous charge with the greatest potential for dealing almost a deathblow to investigative journalism involving national security,” said Pentagon Papers whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg, during a news conference Friday. “The interpretation of his motives is an absurd fantasy that he did this for fame or for his own purposes, let alone to give information to an enemy to which he clearly does not adhere a requirement for a treason charge anymore than I did.”

    ‘Manning Verdict May Topple Journalistic Paradigm’

    http://truth-out.org/news/item/17854-bradley-manning-verdict-may-topple-a-journalistic-paradigm

  462. PA bribed to attend?

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/07/26/presidential-memorandum-waiver-restriction-providing-funds-palestinian-a

    Still, even if he doesn’t realise what he’s up against with the Israelis, an encouraging gesture from Obama.

  463. Kaczynski wasn’t exactly a big believer in the wonderfulness of global capitalism, Komodo.

    Jemand, I remember reading his manifesto some time ago and was absoloutely bowled over by how he dissects the pyschology of modern leftism. Absolutely everything he writes on it could be applied here to the Murrayistas, whether they be talking of the Gaza ‘concentration camp’, signing petitions to stop birds having their wings clipped, going to protests dressed in orange jumpsuits, or Mary bemoaning various “poor souls”. It could have been written about John Goss, for one!

    Here is his manifesto should anyone be interested in reading it:

    http://cyber.eserver.org/unabom.txt

    I think using pipe-bombs to try and further one’s aims shows a degree of loss of sanity, but it may be argued that Kaczynski was acting rationally and with sanity throughout.

  464. The sole purpose of the civil wars started by UK snipers in Syria and now being started by snipers in Egypt off the roof of Al Azhar Islamic University, between factions of power in Islam, those who acquiesce to foreign power in their Muslim countries, and those who are paid by foreign countries to oppose those foreign powers, is , to gain supply from and control of the copious water supplies of those two countries for the state of greater Israel.

    If the LibDems don’t want to give me their whip, I’m still partial to a bit of strawberry instant whip with raspberries instead of cream.

  465. Opinion shifting on NSA surveillance -

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/29/us/politics/momentum-builds-against-nsa-surveillance.html?src=recg

    “I represent a very reasonable district in suburban Philadelphia, and my constituents are expressing a growing concern on the sweeping amounts of data that the government is compiling,” said Representative Michael G. Fitzpatrick, a moderate Republican who represents one of the few true swing districts left in the House and who voted on Wednesday to limit N.S.A. surveillance.

    Hates the West, obviously.

  466. Kaczynski wasn’t exactly a big believer in the wonderfulness of global capitalism, Komodo.

    I was referring to your beliefs. Ambiguity unintentional, badly expressed. Evidence: most of your posts.

    Kaczynski: What struck me was the similarity of his manifesto to the vaguely-structured rants that emerge when anyone literate, including myself, attempts to record their thoughts on life, the universe and everything for posterity. I have spared the public similar works on a couple of occasions, (a) because I found I was boring myself to death and (b) I realised that obtaining the necessary publicity by killing completely uninvolved people might well prove counterproductive either in the short or the long run.

    See also “Mein Kampf”, in which some obvious truths are also embedded in a torrent of kack.

    Good piece on the West Bank and the doomed nature of the peace process here, btw:

    http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/national_world/2013/07/30/west-bank-settlements-complicate-negotiations.html

  467. Cross posted from Medialens.

    Chris Hedges: Incarceration in America is a business.
    Posted by MikeD on July 30, 2013, 9:15 am

    Poor people, especially those of color, are worth nothing to corporations and private contractors if they are on the street. In jails and prisons, however, they each can generate corporate revenues of $30,000 to $40,000 a year. This use of the bodies of the poor to make money for corporations fuels the system of neoslavery that defines our prison system.

    http://www.newsforage.com/2013/07/chris-hedges-poor-people-especially.html

    The United States has spent $300 billion since 1980 to expand its prison system. We imprison 2.2 million people, 25 percent of the world’s prison population. For every 100,000 adults in this country there are 742 behind bars. Five million are on parole. Only 30 to 40 percent are white.

    Incarceration has become a very lucrative business for an array of private contractors, most of whom send lobbyists to Washington to make sure the laws and legislation continue to funnel a steady supply of poor people into the prison complex. These private contractors, taking public money, build the prisons, provide food service, hire guards and run and administer detention facilities. It is imperative to their profits that there be a steady supply of new bodies.

  468. Anon, John Goss is a good soul despite whatever political or personality differences exist between you two. He is also amenable to shifting ground when presented with compelling arguments.

    Anyway, I did browse over TK’s manifesto some years ago and was impressed with his intelligence. How his ideas translated into homicidal actions, I never discovered. But your quote does effectively describe a certain kind of automatic contrarianism of the Left as a desperate attempt to distinguish themselves from the often cold-blooded egoism of the Right. That’s why I despise both.

  469. I saw a news piece this morning on a couple who were part of the joint action in the High Court against the housing benefit cuts aka the ‘bedroom tax’. Lord Justice Laws has thrown it out but Richard Stein of Leigh, Day & Co Solicitors says that there will be an appeal.

    This is them speaking post the High Court decision.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23503095

    The wife has spina bifida and sleeps in one small bedroom in a special hospital type bed with a special mattress. The other bedroom, also small, accommodates her husband, who is her full time carer, and all the equipment needed for her care. The couple are having £14 a week taken away from them on the basis that they have a spare room.

    The judge in the case was Lord Justice Laws. Shame on him.

    He is a ‘Visitor’ *whatever that means) at Cumberland Lodge, another Establishment nest of preciousness located in Windsor Great Park, Patron HM Queen. The bedrooms there are massive and one of them could accommodate a dozen spina bifida victims.

    http://www.cumberlandlodge.ac.uk/

    The mob in charge http://www.cumberlandlodge.ac.uk/aboutus/People/trustees

    The accommodation http://www.cumberlandlodge.ac.uk/venue/Accommodation+New

    We are now living under a very cruel system.

  470. I, too, am glad you have spared us your diatribe On Life, the Universe and Everything, Komodo, not least because it would have turned into On Jews, Israel and Zionism from about page 2 onwards.

    Putting aside your idiotic comparison with Mein Kampf for a moment, do share with us some of those “obvious truths” contained within it. Is it the bit where he finds out who’s responsible for all the problems afflicting Germany?

    Kaczynski’s manifesto is not a rant. You may disagree with it, as I do with much of it concerning de-industrialization, but he has the modern left bang to rights, which is, of course, why you dismiss it as a rant!

  471. Jemand -

    Clue for us here:

    Ostensibly, the manifesto is a strong critique of contemporary techno-capitalist society. However, if you took a knife to the text, divided it into little passages, you would discover that half of them bend far leftward and could be read aloud without protest in Harvard yard, while the other half bend far rightward and could only be read aloud without protest at Hillsdale College.

    So, you have passages such as this one, which would send heads nodding in every humanities department in America:

    The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race. They have greatly increased the life-expectancy of those of us who live in “advanced” countries, but they have destabilized society, have made life unfulfilling, have subjected human beings to indignities, have led to widespread psychological suffering (in the Third World to physical suffering as well) and have inflicted severe damage on the natural world.

    But then comes this curveball:

    One of the most widespread manifestations of the craziness of our world is leftism, so a discussion of the psychology of leftism can serve as an introduction to the discussion of the problems of modern society in general.

    Like many on the Left, Kaczynski blames technology and ‘the system’ for the sad state of the earth and its inhabitants, yet he suggests that the contemporary Left (the “oversocialized” Left, as Ted puts it) is in fact the system’s most malformed, though logical outgrowth.

    At first, I couldn’t recognize the motive behind the manifesto. Its politics seemed too conflicted. Then I noticed a brief mention in Kaczynski’s Wikipedia article that ties him to the anarcho-primitive tradition, and suddenly the text became more philosophically cohesive.

    More:

    http://technaverbascripta.wordpress.com/2013/02/12/text-network-and-corpus-analysis-of-the-unabomber-manifesto/

  472. Sarah Colborne of the PSC on ‘G4S must be halted in its tracks’

    With the BBC currently considering bids for an £80 million security contract, pressure is growing on the broadcaster not to award the deal to G4S.

    G4S is seen as a key international target for the boycott, divestment and sanctions movement due to its involvement in Israeli prison services and other contracts.

    /..

    http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/index.php/news/content/view/full/135957

  473. “Absolutely everything he writes on it could be applied here to the Murrayistas, whether they be talking of the Gaza ‘concentration camp’, signing petitions to stop birds having their wings clipped, going to protests dressed in orange jumpsuits, or Mary bemoaning various “poor souls”. It could have been written about John Goss, for one!” — Anon

    Clearly Anon believes that compassion is a bad thing. We must work to get rid of it.

  474. There seems to have been no clarity on the very first question: Is propaganda a means or an end?
    It is a means and must therefore be judged with regard to its end. It must consequently take a form calculated to support the aim which it serves. It is also obvious that its aim can vary in importance from the standpoint of general need, and that the inner value of the propaganda will vary accordingly. The aim for which we were fighting the War was the loftiest, the most overpowering, that man can conceive: it was the freedom and independence of our nation, the security of our future food supply, and-our national honor; a thing which, despite all contrary opinions prevailing today, nevertheless exists, or rather should exist, since peoples without honor have sooner or later lost their freedom and independence, which in turn is only the result of a higher justice, since generations of rabble without honor deserve no freedom. Any man who wants to be a cowardly slave can have no honor) or honor itself would soon fall into general contempt.

    Adolf Hitler: Mein Kampf, VI, ‘War Propaganda’

    Don’t think you’ll have to try too hard to agree with that, Anon….

    And no, I doubt if my rants would even mention Israel. I focus on it here to annoy and counter the likes of you.

  475. “He is a ‘Visitor’ *whatever that means) at Cumberland Lodge, another Establishment nest of preciousness located in Windsor Great Park, Patron HM Queen. The bedrooms there are massive and one of them could accommodate a dozen spina bifida victims.”

    Yes, Mary, and your bedroom could sleep two homeless people. Your car could be used as an ambulance to convey injured persons to hospital. Why, your house could even be knocked down and a surgery built in place of it. Now I’ve told the follwers of the Craig Murray blog about this terrible injustice, I feel so much better about myself.

  476. Sofia Kibo Noh

    30 Jul, 2013 - 12:44 pm

    @Komodo. 12 06am

    Re Kackinsky

    “…torrent of kack.”

    When I try to read that stuff I realise that, like poetry, it needs to vocalised. Plain reading it misses so much, but you wouldn’t want to do that voice for too long. You’d scare yourself.

  477. As Hitler said, Dreoilin:

    …where the destiny and existence of a people are at stake, all obligation toward beauty ceases…And since these criteria of humanitarianism and beauty must be eliminated from the struggle, they are also inapplicable to propaganda.. (ibid)

    I’m sure Anon agrees.

  478. Thanks, Sofia. Bit like the Qu’ran, maybe? No, maybe not.

  479. Not the title of a film but a story about two worlds. One – abject poverty and slum dwelling and the other – greed, corruption, theft, exploitation and rich living.

    The tycoon, the dictator’s wife and the $2.5bn Guinea mining deal

    [..]
    In years past, during the dying days of Lansana Conté, the army general who ruled Guinea with an iron grip for almost all of his quarter-century tenure, an Israeli-French billionaire could be spotted similarly holding court at Conakry’s once popular Novotel. Beny Steinmetz, one of the wealthiest men in the world, came here, sources say, with a clear mission. “Beny Steinmetz wanted to make sure he was the closest white man to President Conté,” said one former presidential aide of the president.

    The tycoon also wanted, and successfully obtained, the rights to mine Simandou – a mountain range in Guinea’s remote south-east containing millions of tonnes of iron ore of the highest grade. According to some estimates, the ore from Simandou could generate around $140bn over the next 25 years, more than doubling the country’s GDP.

    [..]
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/30/africa-guinea-mining-bsgr-steinmetz

    I hope the FBI hang the Israeli-French Beny out to dry.

    Ian Cobain is a brilliant journalist.

  480. Komodo, those parts you quote don’t appear to be contradictory unless you hold firm Left or Right political sentiments. The fact that TK didn’t, and you acknowledge that in your closing comment, indicates that he did indeed hold a coherent view of how he saw humanity’s predicament.

    While I have a degree in science and am an enthusiastic user and advocate of technological solutions, I hold the consumer-industrial paradigm of the Western lifestyle in utter contempt for what it has become and fails to address in terms of human destiny and purpose.

    Say, you don’t know where I can pick up a few hundred kilos of nitrogen fertiliser, do you? Anyone? 

  481. @ Jemand.

    I despise loathe is a much more suitable term of utterance.

    Soryy to be a piss ant.

  482. Jemand, I’d say he held, like most of us, a confused picture of the human predicament. The comment isn’t mine, but from the link. It’s a POV…and just as guilty of categorising K, as K is of categorising, for the convenience of his preconceptions, people he doesn’t agree with. Labels.

    Who said this?

    What, for example, would we say about a poster that was supposed to advertise a new soap and that described other soaps as ‘good’?
    We would only shake our heads.
    Exactly the same applies to political advertising.

    Clue: [ibid]

    He’s a mine of information on the topic. Should be required reading in yeshivas.

  483. “Clearly Anon believes that compassion is a bad thing. We must work to get rid of it.”

    For all her dislike of Mary, Dreoilin is in fact far more similar to her than she would like to think, as the absurd statement above illustrates.

    Needless to say, Dreoilin, questioning what motivates the particular brand of compassion you choose to display on these boards does not mean I think compassion is a bad thing, or want to get rid of it, but it does allow you to promote yourself as the compassionate one and feel better about yourself.

    Let’s see what Kaczynski has to say about this:

    “Generally speaking, the goals of today’s leftists are NOT in conflict with the accepted morality. On the contrary, the left takes an accepted moral principle, adopts it as its own, and then accuses mainstream society of violating that principle. Examples: racial equality, equality of the sexes, helping poor people, peace as opposed to war, nonviolence generally, freedom of expression, kindness to animals.”

    Back to the comparison with Mary, her textbook response to my reply to her above would be something along the lines of “Clearly Anon wants to get rid of disabled people”.

  484. Nothing wrong with holding apparently contradictory views. Mark of an intelligent person, someone once said. Uncompromising supporters of Israel/Palestine take note.

  485. Generally speaking, the goals of today’s leftists are NOT in conflict with the accepted morality. On the contrary, the left takes an accepted moral principle, adopts it as its own,

    Anything wrong with that? Left adopts mainstream position, yes? Accepts consensus, no?

    and then accuses mainstream society of violating that principle.

    Bit missing here: should add “when it violates that principle”, I think. There’s not much point even for a comic stereotype lefty (they tend to be intellectuals, you know, and think about things, lefties) in accusing the RSPCA of intentional cruelty to animals, is there?

    Examples: racial equality, equality of the sexes, helping poor people, peace as opposed to war, nonviolence generally, freedom of expression, kindness to animals.”

    With which, as a mainstream member of mainstream society, you have already admitted you agree.

    You’re floundering.

    What Dreoilin linked.

  486. “questioning what motivates the particular brand of compassion you choose to display on these boards does not mean …”

    How many “brands” of compassion are there?
    Could you enumerate them please?

    And I don’t “dislike” Mary. I think she could “unbend” a little, now and then. Which is completely different from “disliking”.

  487. ” I focus on it [Israel] here to annoy and counter the likes of you.”

    So there we have it, ladies and gents. Komodo’s obsession with Israel is all a show, to annoy me (it doesn’t, though it probably annoys lurkers) and counter me (I’ve never expressed any support one way or the other).

  488. Flaming June

    30 Jul, 2013 - 1:46 pm

    Don’t respond to him/her Dreoilin. He/she and others are only here to disrupt and divide.

    I think that it is some kind of badge of honour to be picked out by name by one of these trolls.

  489. …only here to disrupt and divide.

    Seems to be unifying these days, FJ. Law of unintended consequences. By lumping people together as a common enemy, you get…a common enemy. Hitler missed that point, too.

  490. don’t know if anyone has been following this:

    Zimbabwe voters’ roll ‘in hands of suspect Israeli company’
    A secretive Israel-based firm – accused of manipulating past elections in
    the region – is alleged to be involved in managing Zimbabwe’s voters’
    roll…
    Eddie Cross, a Zimbabwean opposition Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) MP
    who has proved to be well informed on security matters in the past, told the
    Mail & Guardian that he had been informed by security sources that the
    company, Nikuv International Projects, is working on the roll at Defence
    House, the headquarters of the Zimbabwe Defence Force. The MDC also alleged
    that Nikuv was a front for the Israeli intelligence agency Mossad, although
    it offered no evidence to support the claim…
    On its website Nikuv says that the company focuses on projects for
    “governmental sectors” and initiated its activities in Africa in 1994 in
    Nigeria. It had “since expanded its activities to Zimbabwe, Zambia, Ghana,
    Botswana and Angola in IT and additional areas like agriculture and
    security”….
    http://mg.co.za/article/2013-04-12-00-zim-voters-roll-in-hands-of-suspect-israeli-company

  491. Flaming June

    30 Jul, 2013 - 2:01 pm

    Thanks Someone. Even those owning their homes or renting do not feel secure.

    1 in 4 in early fifties worried about losing home
    Richard Brooks \ Age UK
    Published on 30 July 2013

    Nearly a quarter of people in their early 50s are worried they’ll be forced to leave their homes because they won’t be able to keep up their mortgage or rent payments according to Age UK’s Economic Tracker.

    The figure from a poll of 971 people aged 50 or over across the UK is a barometer of the financial confidence of a demographic group, who would traditionally be expected to be at the peak of their earning power. Instead the tracker poll shows only 38% of people aged 50 plus say the future looks good for them.

    Age UK believes the results paint a worrying picture of a generation of ‘tomorrow’s pensioners’ beset with financial worries, including potentially finding themselves homeless.

    Concern over staying in work

    A key concern for many is keeping or finding a job. Nearly half of all unemployed men and women aged between 50 and 64 (46 per cent – 191,000 people ) have been out of work for more than a year with reducing prospects of finding a job despite being expected to work longer before they receive a State Pension.

    Research shows that it is harder for someone aged 50 and over to get back into the work place than for any other age group. Studies also show that they are more likely to be made redundant when compared with workers aged between 29 and 49.

    /..
    http://www.ageuk.org.uk/latest-news/1-in-4-in-early-fifties-worried-about-losing-home/

  492. Mary, I only respond to them when I’m in the mood. For my own entertainment really.
    Good point by Komodo.

    Look at this. It’s enough to make one throw up.

    “Mock The Poor — The Conservative Media Solution To Poverty”

    “As fast food workers in 7 cities walked the picket line fighting for better wages and working conditions the conservative media turned its focus towards a solution to help lift up our working men and women out of poverty — mock them.

    “To respond to the day long strike, Fox trotted out Richard Berman, failing to identify him as a highly paid consultant to the food and beverage industry. He proceeded to threaten fast food workers, claiming if they demanded incomes allowing them to live above the poverty line, the only solution would be to replace them with iPads.”

    More http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/07/30/mock-the-poor-the-conservative-media-solution-t/195125

  493. 13:00 GMT: “In a twist of irony, a US senator is lobbying for today to be declared ‘National Whistleblower Day’ in honor of the revolutionary-era Continentall Congress’ very first whistleblower protection law on July 30, 1778.

    “Anything we can do to uphold whistle-blowers and their protection is the right thing to keep government responsible,” Iowa Senator Chuck Grassley said on Monday. “If you know laws are being violated and money’s being misspent, you have a patriotic duty to report it.”

    http://rt.com/usa/manning-verdict-live-updates-770/

    Verdict 17:00 GMT

  494. Komodo, you are misunderstanding what the author is getting at. His analysis is of the psychology of modern leftism – it is not a discussion of what ought to constitute right or wrong in a society. Most of us – one would hope the vast majority of us – believe that war is wrong, helping the less fortunate is good, and so on. What the modern left does is to hijack these ideas and try to adopt them as its own, focuses its indignation selectively along political lines, and, believing it has established moral superiority, characterises dissenting views as cruel, inhumane, lacking compassion. Witness Dreoilin’s reply to me. She accuses me of wanting to “get rid of compassion”, because I dare challenge some of the phony compassion on display here (I say phony, because as has been noted it always follows selected political lines). Note, the fall-back is always on established norms – ie, compassion is a good thing, I am showing compassion, Anon challenges me, he therefore hates compassion. We see this time and again in the comments here. For example, anything not wholly critical of Israel is seen as supporting the murder of Palestinians. There is no middle-ground – you either conform to their twisted morality, or you do not, and are consequently an imperialist, racist, fascist, whatever. And I would add that this is why the modern left in general hates Christianity, because it sees the established moral code therein as a rival that must be adapted and distorted to fit leftist agendas.

  495. Flaming June

    30 Jul, 2013 - 3:15 pm

    Poor brave young Bradley Manning. I feel so sorry for him. I think we all know that Judge Lind will take a pound of his flesh on behalf of the evil US EmPyre.

    Bradley Manning trial verdict – live coverage

    LiveJudge to rule on the case of Bradley Manning, accused of ‘aiding the enemy’ by leaking military secrets to WikiLeaks
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/30/bradley-manning-trial-verdict-live

  496. Flaming June

    30 Jul, 2013 - 3:19 pm

    At firat I thought ‘What a horrible headline’. Then I read on :)

    http://www.politicsworldwide.com/why-is-there-so-little-anger-about-all-these-scroungers/

  497. “She accuses me of wanting to ‘get rid of compassion’”

    No, I said, “We must work to get rid of it.”

    [It's called 'sarcasm'.]

    As for ‘phony compassion’ and ‘twisted morality’, what I see coming from the right (particularly in the U.S. – which the élite in the UK is now so busy emulating) is NO compassion and NO moral compass, despite so many of them claiming to be Christians.

    You do talk tosh.

  498. Anon

    Where’s the list of different “brands” of compassion that you referred to and I asked you for?

    Can’t make it up?

  499. Anon, you are correct about the hijacking of issues on the basis of compassion, monopolising the moral high ground on those issues and falsely depicting opposing points of view as ‘morally bad’ because they are demonstrably less ‘compassionate’, as if ‘compassion’ is the primary or exclusive factor in the formulation of public policy and social responses to desperate problems.

    Compassion is defined as “sympathetic pity and concern for suffering of others”. I see no value in standing around and feeling sympathy for someone who is suffering while others rush to his aid. By itself, compassion is an emotional indulgence, not a solution to relieving humanity of its most pressing and agonising problems. Feeling compassion doesn’t make anyone superior – it is the motivation to act and succeed in helping that we can admire most.

    Australia is facing a Federal election soon and the politics of ‘compassion’ has raised its ugly head in the problem we are experiencing in managing and processing of aslyum seekers. Some people have been journeying by boat, usually from Indonesia, and over a thousand souls, many of them children, have been lost at sea due to overloading of unseaworthy boats.

    As a result, Australia has to send warships thousands of kilometres, sometimes into Indonesian waters, to mount sea-rescue missions because Indonesia, with its population of 300M, couldn’t give a shit about people drowning 5km off their coast. These missions cost millions of £££££ in a budget of *billions* to process unauthorised arrivals of so-called asylum seekers, money that would be better spent on fighting disease, hunger and peacekeeping in global black spots.

    There are a lot of lies being told about this issue with claims of inhumanity, lack of compassion, cruelty, and a host of demonising emotional terms being levelled at both the government and the opposition who have announced strong policies on managing a massive spike in unauthorised migration by sea. The Labor party played the ‘compassionate’ card in 2001 and the result was over a thousand people dead at sea.

    The Greens, who I have voted for at both the federal and state levels for the last eighteen years, has been leading this charge. What do they say about people dying at sea? It’s Australia’s fault. I will never vote for them again.

    Let me give some advice to anyone who wants to argue with someone who takes the moral high ground on an issue – don’t! You can’t win. The best solution to a problem is NOT the most compassionate one, but the most effective one. Ask how many are willing to open their homes to the homeless – not many, it turns out.

    No offence to the good people here who do the right thing, but let’s leave the word ‘compassion’ out of it. It’s not about you and your emotional needs, it’s about the needs of those who are suffering.

  500. Flaming June

    30 Jul, 2013 - 3:59 pm

    Interesting that the House of Lords goes into recess today. The House of Commons pushed off for their hols on 18 July so why did the Lords continue meeting for another 8 days? For the £300 a day attendance allowance each member of the lords claimed presumably.

    http://www.parliament.uk/about/mps-and-lords/about-lords/lords-allowances/

    They have been waffling on today about the EU and are now discussing ‘Orders and Regulations’.

    http://services.parliament.uk/calendar/#!/calendar/Lords/MainChamber/2013/7/30/events.html

  501. Sofia Kibo Noh

    30 Jul, 2013 - 4:02 pm

    @Anon. 2 44pm

    Can you link us to even one time a poster here has suggested, “…anything not wholly critical of Israel is seen as supporting the murder of Palestinians.”

    Thanks.

    That was quite a read.

  502. Flaming June

    30 Jul, 2013 - 4:06 pm

    The mention of Papua New Guinea as the final destination for Australia’s /asylum seekers/illegal immigrants, as recently decided by Rudd, is omitted above.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/election-2013/island-locked-and-loaded-for-first-png-flight/story-fn9qr68y-1226688380868

  503. Sofia Kibo Noh

    30 Jul, 2013 - 4:22 pm

    @Jemand. 3 56pm

    Lets do a simple exercise.

    Take two groups of randomly chosen people.

    Drop them onto two identical islands, both of which contain all the tools and resources to meet human needs.

    Group A are required to respond to each other with compassion 75% of the time.

    Group B are required to respond with compassion 25% of the time.

    Leave them for a year, then return. But on the way you are required to place bets on which group is in better condition.

    If you were a gambler, which group would you put your money on?

    Isn’t compassion/empathy a vital survival trait for us at this stage, now we have so much more power than ever to screw things up on a scale never imagined before?

  504. Flaming June/Mary is again lying as an unstoppable, compulsive liar about my country.

    The PNG solution was not specifically mentioned by me because it did not have to be mentioned. I referred to “strong policies” and that implied everything that has been reported in the media.

    But as expected, she fails to express even a scintilla of compassion for the children who breathed water into their lungs as their short lives were extinguished at sea. You see, it is more important for her to be seen parading her bleeding heart than caring about the real causes of tragedy. And it seems she thinks it’s better to drown at sea than be offered a safe haven in PNG (as if Australia OWES the world a place in our land).

  505. Sofia KN,

    I don’t bet on anything other than a sure thing.

    Let me ask you this -

    Who would you bet on if Group A expressed compassion 100% of the time and Group B only 75% of the time?

    Does this hypothetical exercise, absent of any real evidence, prove anything?

  506. His analysis is of the psychology of modern leftism

    He’s a mathematician ffs. His analysis is of his own thoughts and feelings. And they’re confused.

    You’ve missed my point, too. Or you’re saying it’s ok to adopt the prevailing morals but not to say or do anything about them, for that will earn you the lofty censure of the excrescences?

    Anyway, off to the buzkashi game. I have a bet on the Taliban Turtles.

  507. “80 percent of U.S. adults face near-poverty, unemployment, survey finds”

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57595861/80-percent-of-u.s-adults-face-near-poverty-unemployment-survey-finds/

  508. Has anyone provided accomodation to a poor homeless person yet?

    *sounds of owls hooting*

  509. Sofia Kibo Noh

    30 Jul, 2013 - 4:45 pm

    @Flaming. 3 19pm

    Call me a bleeding-heart, but it I can’t help getting all emotional when I hear a journalist attacking scroungers like “… the pregnant young woman, who has been unemployed for months, receiving hundreds of millions of pounds in state hand-outs on top being allowed to live rent free in a 20 bedroom house, which was re-furbished by the taxpayer at a cost of £1M.”

    Thanks. I needed a laugh after those “torrents of cack.”

  510. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 4:56 pm

    A compassionate take on Manning….no cack or chung.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/ellievhall/who-is-bradley-manning

  511. Flaming June

    30 Jul, 2013 - 5:20 pm

    I had the same irrational and hostile reaction from Jemand when I dared to mention the abominable treatment of the aboriginal people by the Australians, quoting John Pilger whom I take to be a most reliable source.

    Watch The Rabbit Proof Fence and Samson and Delilah and be moved. Also read this.

    July 22, 2013

    The PNG Solution

    Harshness Before Sense
    by BINOY KAMPMARK

    This is patently sinister. Manus Island, in Papua New Guinea, is destined under the “regional agreement” between PNG and Australia to become an expanded detention centre which may house upwards of 3000 individuals. (Shades of an Asia Pacific Gulag Archipelago come to mind.) These individuals might well have been processed quietly through Australian channels by Australian authorities. If it had been news, it should have been embedded in the back pages. But this Labor government is desperate. Very desperate. So much so that anyone without a visa who arrives in Australia will never (emphasis on the word never) settle in Australia.[1]

    Those are the words of a “restored” Prime Minister Kevin Rudd. Rudd has made it clear that the Refugee Convention, ratified in 1951 is an anachronism on stilts. Nothing new there – he parrots a long standing lament of wealthy states who would rather wish the convention might be done away with – or at the very least “revised”.

    Much of this behaviour on the part of the prime minister is probably histrionics – to change the convention through the channels of the United Nations would require General Assembly approval. Poorer states are unlikely to be joining richer states in attempting to curb global flows of individuals – for them, the richer the state, the greater the burden by necessity.

    [..]
    As Marina O’Sullivan of the Castan Centre for Human Rights explains, domestic violence is rife.[3] Ethnic tensions are ever present. The “human rights” infrastructure is simply not in place. Then there is that matter of the High Court, which found in 2011 that arrangements of this sort violated international refugee obligations.

    Should he win the elections, will Rudd care? This is hard to know given the distinct hollowness of Australian politics. Australia is a land jam packed with regulations, controls and a mania for “security”. Its electoral system, at least in so far as it determines the fates of governments, hinges on marginal seats in the outer suburbs – the “Rooty Hill” factor. But this policy, unless it is challenged in the High Court, risks making Australia not merely an inept international citizen, but a callous one whose words at international law are empty sentiments rather than genuine policy.

    Binoy Kampmark was a Commonwealth Scholar at Selwyn College, Cambridge. He lectures at RMIT University, Melbourne

    /..
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/07/22/harshness-before-sense/

  512. “I see no value in standing around and feeling sympathy for someone who is suffering while others rush to his aid.”

    No, Jemand. But this is a blog, there is no CCTV to see what people are doing (when they’re not writing here), and no access to people’s bank details to see what they might be donating to good causes.

    All we can see is when people express sympathy with the plight of others.

    What I’d like to ask you is,

    Do those who rush to the aid of others feel no compassion?
    Or do they rush to others’ aid because they feel compassion?

    Why does it have to be either feel compassion OR go and help people? why not both?

    —————-

    Sofia
    about
    “… the pregnant young woman, who has been unemployed for months, receiving hundreds of millions of pounds in state hand-outs on top being allowed to live rent free in a 20 bedroom house, which was re-furbished by the taxpayer at a cost of £1M.”

    https://twitter.com/irlpol/status/362174194663952384/photo/1

  513. Anon writes, “Most of us – one would hope the vast majority of us – believe that war is wrong, helping the less fortunate is good, and so on.

    Sometimes, not always by any means. The majority of Americans believed war with Iraq was right, despite Iraq having never done us any harm. The majority of our representatives in the UK thought war was right too. In fact, there’s rarely a war the right wing _doesn’t_ like – as long as they’re not personally involved, of course. Most people in the UK have welcomed the majority of wars we’ve fought in the last 100 years. But most Americans cheerfully endorse the US attacking of a tiny, unarmed country too, wherever it occurs, even though they’ve never heard of it before and couldn’t find it on a map.

    Helping the fortunate is not seen as a good thing by the right either. Oh, they’ll make weasly arguments about dependency cultures, etc., but will oppose every last thing that assists the working man. Indeed, “cheap labour” is at least a major component of every policy the right puts forward. “Welfare queens”, “scroungers” and so on our very popular whipping boys. Haven’t you noticed?

    So while your premise might sound good as a lazy assertion, it doesn’t really stand a popularity test when you get to any specifics.

    Anon continues: “What the modern left does is to hijack these ideas and try to adopt them as its own, focuses its indignation selectively along political lines, and, believing it has established moral superiority, characterises dissenting views as cruel, inhumane, lacking compassion.

    What is there to “hijack”, if you think they are majority views anyway? Why should what you’d have as a majority view on compassion suddenly become “phony” when exhibited by the left?

    That’s what makes lefties unpopular – going against warmongering, and opposing the demonising of the poor – which is hardly hijacking a notion for popularity.

    Your view is actually rather comical, in a sad way. You’re proposing that a majority view is only voiced by the Left, yet they’re the one group that doesn’t believe in it! That’s right – the Left puts their entire concerns on only for show, while the Right that _does_ believe in these fair-minded principles holds policies that work in the opposite direction. Your logic/view is so convoluted that only a madman could have threaded such a twisted mess and called it a reasoned argument. Oh yes… it was inspired by Kaczynski, no wonder!

    *

    You have so much pent-up distortion and – frankly – anger pent up in your 2:44pm post it’s too much to unpack without going overly long here. For instance, Christianity is seen as a rival for a moral code, therefore its attacked because we lefties can’t stand the competition! That’s great, it’s so daft I just have to chuckle.

    For a start, any genuine practitioner of a moral code will be incorporated and welcomed by the Left – not attacked. If you think the real Christianists (not just your harmless CoE types) have any relationship to the teachings of Christ, let alone morality, you are seriously misinformed. If you think the implementation of Christianity (or religion generally) through the centuries has done us any good, you are also badly mistaken.

  514. Flaming June

    30 Jul, 2013 - 5:48 pm

    Frack off Lord Howell (Gideon’s father-in-law)! The ConDem equivalent of Marie Antoinette.

    George Osborne’s father-in-law has declared fracking should happen in the North East of England because it is filled with “desolate areas”.

    Lord Howell of Guildford, whose daughter Frances is married to the Chancellor, drew gasps of astonishment with his comments in the House of Lords on Tuesday.

    He claimed the controversial form of gas production could take place in the North East without any impact on the surrounding environment.

    Environmental campaigners called the declaration “jaw-dropping” and Labour claimed it was further proof that the Tories are “out of touch” with ordinary Britons.

    The Tory peer, who was energy secretary under Margaret Thatcher, argued that the same approach on fracking should not be taken in all regions.
    /..
    http://news.sky.com/story/1122219/lord-howell-frack-in-desolate-north-east

    http://www.parliament.uk/biographies/lords/lord-howell-of-guildford/993

    PS He has since apologised for any offence caused!

  515. Oh well said, Glenn.

  516. Typo: I’d put “Helping the fortunate is not seen as a good thing by the right either” above. Meant to say “… helping the UNfortunate”, obviously. I don’t usually respond to my own typos – usually it’s obvious what was meant, but that one did require clarification.

    Because the Right actually thinks helping the already fortunate _is_ their job, with “fortune” being the operative component of the word, by funnelling tax-payer money at their investor-class cronies, and relieving them of their tax duties. All the while, the Right denounces the poor for taking so much from the hard-working rich, increases the tax burden on the poor, and works to deny them as many state benefits as possible.

  517. Sofia Kibo Noh

    30 Jul, 2013 - 5:56 pm

    @ Ben. 4 56pm

    Thanks. It gives a good idea of the person behind the name.

    @Dreoilin.

    “WOMAN HAS BABY

    LOL!

  518. Still no expression of sympathy from Flaming Mary for the children who died at sea.

    @Dreoilin, the compassion competition on this blog serves no useful purpose but to arbitrarily divide those who think they care the most from those who think they know the best.

    My statement re standing around wasn’t a metaphor for all of us on this blog. It was literal – ie people who stand around in the street saying “Ooh, that’s terrible, my how sad” while others rush over to help. Do those who rush to offer aid feel more compassion? I don’t know. Does it matter what they feel as long as they help? As we sometimes say, “actions speak louder than words”, or “words are cheap”. Perhaps actions are all that count in measuring compassion, so all this blustering over who expresses more compassion than who is utterly pointless.

    It’s possible, Dreoilin, that some of the world’s best doctors are psychopaths. I don’t know this to be true, but I can imagine a selfish doctor who is determined to win accolades for his great work in saving lives might not care any more than you, me or the self-professed bleeding hearts of humanity on this blog. But again, it’s not about unfalsifiable claims of feeling compassion that’s important, it’s the awareness of suffering and the development of workable solutions. You can’t run a hospital full of crying nurses.

  519. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 6:06 pm

    Glenn; so true. Right-wingers wince with obvious pain if you should mention the concept, noblesse oblige. Denial is a powerful substitute for compassion.

  520. Found not guilty of aiding the enemy!!!
    Thank goodness

  521. Sofia KN,

    Still waiting for a reply re your bet.

  522. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 6:12 pm

    “If you think the implementation of Christianity (or religion generally) through the centuries has done us any good, you are also badly mistaken.”

    It’s more a failure to implement the principles of Christianity, which has made it appear a failure glenn

    The Founder’s biggest challenge was not the streetwalkers and Publicans of his day, but the religious hypocrites who didn’t want to get the message because it was inconvenient.

    There are lots of ‘Cafeteria’ christians who choose a schism based upon their predispositions. That’s not the way it’s supposed to work.

  523. Thanks Dreoilin…. I haven’t been paying so much attention lately, I admit, but Anon (who he?) seems to have gone off the deep end today. Quoting a bit of Ted Kaczynski and arguing that he had a point here or there is one thing, but here Anon seems to be challenging us with Kaczynski’s words as if they were received wisdom!

    If that were not bad enough, Anon now decides to make sweeping generalisations and assumptions about the Left that would make Thatcher blush (if she wasn’t red-faced enough already contending with the fires of hell), and builds a teetering column of baseless assertions to arrive at a completely insane conclusion. No wonder these people eventually start lobbing bombs about if they’re capable of that sort of reasoning.

  524. @Dreoilin, thanks for the news re Manning. I wasn’t expecting it but then, this case was more about getting a relationship between Manning and Assange+Wikileaks on the formal legal record for subsequent action against Assange – the real target.

  525. Thanks for all the great links and opinions, I feel humbled. Have been painting non stop for about a week, feels like Ramsgate all over again.

    In preparation for another night around the fire of facts, anguish and distortion, can I offer you all an instant sleeping pill for the early hours of the morn.
    I do not need it anymore as hard physical work works better for me.

    So you get ready, rest your wary head and play this. 1min 27 second of it should do.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgY_XWPhxos

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgY_XWPhxos

  526. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 6:15 pm

    A lot of Journos just got a reprieve.

  527. Glenn_uk

    If you want an example of deep end flipping out, visit the counter-revolution thread and read Fedup’s posts.

  528. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 6:20 pm

    Guardian;

    What we know
    Information is still filtering out of Fort Meade – we will have a full report from Ed Pilkington shortly – but for the moment, this is what we know:

    • Bradley Manning has been found not guilty of aiding the enemy

    • Manning has been found guilty of five espionage charges

    • He has been found guilty of five theft charges

  529. Jemand,
    I was not aware of any “compassion competition” on this blog.

    All I see are those who express compassion — and those who call that compassion ‘phony’ with references to ‘twisted morality’. It’s very offensive, actually.

    “thanks for the news re Manning”

    Yes, I assumed they’d throw the book at him and give him a life sentence. But I don’t think so now.
    He’s been found guilty of about 15 or so charges to which he had pleaded guilty. I haven’t heard anything about a sentence yet, but I’ve heard 20 years **mentioned**.

  530. Ah Ben, you can keep us informed!

  531. Sentencing to begin tomorrow, according to Sky. That concur with what you’re hearing Ben?

  532. Sofia Kibo Noh

    30 Jul, 2013 - 6:25 pm

    @Glenn. 5 44 and 5 53pm

    I can understand privileged right-wing parasites thinking their entitlement to our taxes is a good thing.

    What baffles me is the “clever” apologists and the obviously willing crowds who line the streets to wave plastic flags (made in China) and, when they can, give their votes to privileged right-wing parasites.

  533. Tweet from Wikileaks

    Manning faces 136 years on the charges he has been convicted of today. Dangerous national security extremism from the Obama administration.

    (I’ll shut up now)

  534. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 6:33 pm

    Yes Dreoilin.

    Ed Pilkington ✔ @Edpilkington

    BREAKING #Manning facing poss top sentence of at least 130 years in military jail #WikiLeaks
    10:18 AM – 30 Jul 2013

    But the judge says she’s gonna give him credit for time tortured, er served.

  535. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 6:44 pm

    Alexa O’Brien @carwinb

    Spec II, Charge II Guilty to his LIO plea for 793(e) Collateral Murder #Manning

    I attempted to find the charge in UCMJ, but nothing augers well. I assume this is the extra jail time for the CM video. This was the most damaging revelation from the perspective of the authorities.

  536. Flaming June, 5.20pm

    I’ve just read this article from yesterday on the imminent Bradley Manning by Binoy Kampmark (who is the No 3 in the Wikileaks Party Victoria Senate election team):

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/07/29/the-manning-trial-rests/

    On the verdict itself, of course everyone’s relieved about the Aiding the Enemy and Garani video charges (the two big lead-ins for the Grand Jury indictment of Assange/7 founders and associates of Wikileaks) but Alexa O’Brien sums it up as she tweets after outlining the other 19 convictions adding up to a potential 136 years’ jailtime:

    Alexa O’Brien
    @carwinb

    I am going back into the funeral of a young man. #Manning

    https://twitter.com/carwinb/status/362263029141876737

  537. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 7:05 pm

    It is a type of funeral. How else can we calculate the sacrifices of young men like Manning and Snowden. Their autonomous lives have been relinquisshed, just like a soldier who falls on a grenade to spare others.

  538. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 7:08 pm

    The Family’s statement;

    “While we are obviously disappointed in today’s verdicts, we are happy that Judge Lind agreed with us that Brad never intended to help America’s enemies in any way. Brad loves his country and was proud to wear its uniform.

    We want to express our deep thanks to David Coombs, who has dedicated three years of his life to serving as lead counsel in Brad’s case. We also want to thank Brad’s Army defense team, Major Thomas Hurley and Captain Joshua Tooman, for their tireless efforts on Brad’s behalf, and Brad’s first defense counsel, Captain Paul Bouchard, who was so helpful to all of us in those early confusing days and first suggested David Coombs as Brad’s counsel. Most of all, we would like to thank the thousands of people who rallied to Brad’s cause, providing financial and emotional support throughout this long and difficult time, especially Jeff Paterson and Courage to Resist and the Bradley Manning Support Network. Their support has allowed a young Army private to defend himself against the full might of not only the US Army but also the US Government.”

  539. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 7:18 pm

    @ Komodo

    “I don’t hate my country, and I don’t hate the West.”

    _____________________

    You are a bare-faced liar.

    You also hate Israel, and I’d say – judging by your latest frenzied series of posts – that you hate the good people who make you aware of your hatred.

    **************

    La vita è bella, life is good!

  540. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 7:20 pm

    Must’ve hit a raw nerve.

  541. Re Manning verdict.

    Charge of “Aiding the enemy” was problematic vis-a-vis the constitution and supposed freedom of the press provisions. It was best for the Whitehouse to drop it.

    Sentencing will require imprisonment severe enough to make other would-be whistleblowers rethink any idea of doing likewise but not so severe that it feeds anti-US propaganda. I think the Whitehouse got burnt by this case and want to see it behind them. How it affects Snowden, I’m not sure. Ten to twenty years is my guess with maybe a generous parole term, maybe a reduction in sentence on appeal.

    In relation to Assange & Co. I’ll be interested to know how some of the findings will feed into the process of formulating charges by the DoJ, if they don’t already have a sealed indictment.

  542. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 7:26 pm

    @ Jemand

    “Anon, was that quote from before or after Kacynski having lost his mind? Because it makes perfect sense to me.”
    _________

    Thank you for that quotation, which makes perfect sense to me too.

    As to whether he said it before or losing his mind : even if he said it after losing his mind, it still sounds saner than most of the ravings coming from the keyboards of the Hate Brigade of Eminences :)

  543. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 7:28 pm

    Amnesty Int’l statement. They got this one right.

    https://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=20904

  544. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 7:31 pm

    “Margaret Thatcher’s funeral cost taxpayers more than £3m
    Cabinet Office confirms policing and security costs for former prime minister’s funeral in April” (from the Frequent Poster, now)

    Back at the time, the F.P. was busily quoting msm which talked about £10 million.

    Then, very recently, she quoted a source which talked about £1,2 million.

    And now she’s quoting £3 million.

    Tomorrrow….?

    ******************

    La vita é bella, life is good!

  545. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 7:41 pm

    @ Mr Scorgie:

    “If you want to talk about Pakistan; Russia; India; China; Cuba etc fair enough but the subject at the moment is human rights abuses by the west mostly the US and Israel.”
    _______________

    And that, I think, sums it up in a nutshell : “the subject at the moment”.

    As decreed by Komodo, Flaming June and most of the other Eminences, not forgetting your good self of course.

    So you are not really interested in human rights abuses as such, you are simply interested in human rights abuses (which certainly exist) committed by the West and Israel.

    Thank you for coming clean about that.

    *******************

    La vita è bella, life is good! (combat selectivity, laziness and hypocrisy)

  546. Flaming June

    30 Jul, 2013 - 7:43 pm

    Will Amnesty International and HRW now designate Bradley Manning a prisoner of conscience? They have failed miserably so far.

    HRW: “Who is Bradley Manning?”
    Posted on June 7, 2013 by youreallbowlsofsoup

    On Wednesday June 5, 2013, Amnesty4Manning asked supporters of Pfc. Bradley Manning to participate in CALLS FOR MANNING- a day to pick up the phone and call local Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch branches. The objective was to gather information on how the two largest human rights organizations assess human rights violations, Manning support, and why he has not been recognized as a political prisoner or prisoner of conscience.

    Several participates reported to the Twitter account @Amnesty4Manning that Amnesty International representatives would ask for their name and email address promising to get back to them at a later time. Many callers were referred to the press release Amnesty issued the first day of Manning’s court martial. Some told @Amnesty4Manning that their calls went unanswered or straight to voice mail.

    The following is the account of a Manning supporter who phoned US branches of Human Rights Watch:
    /..

    http://amnesty4manning.wordpress.com/2013/06/07/hrw-who-is-bradley-manning/

  547. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 7:47 pm

    The LGBT’s have failed to support Manning sufficiently, as well. I think his small stature and boyish looks don’t make for a good PR face.

  548. Sofia Kibo Noh

    30 Jul, 2013 - 7:48 pm

    @Hasbarakuk. 7 18pm

    Dad!

    Re the Evil Lizard:

    “You are a bare-faced liar.”

    You also hate Israel, and I’d say – judging by your latest frenzied series of posts – that you hate the good people who make you aware of your hatred.”

    When you put it like that, how could any sane person would not be persuaded?

    Now I understand what the University of Haifa means by “public diplomacy”.

    Awesome!
    .
    .

    BTW what’s your take on the Bradley Manning verdict?

  549. Sofia Kibo Noh

    30 Jul, 2013 - 7:50 pm

    OK. Forget the “would”.

    …how could any sane person would not be persuaded?

    You de man Dad!

  550. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 7:54 pm

    @ Dreoilin

    “Clearly Anon believes that compassion is a bad thing. We must work to get rid of it.”
    _______________

    Come on, although I disagree with much of what you say, you strike me a fair-minded person. I don’t think Anon believes that but I do think he believes that compassion is not – how can I put this politely? – a certain element in Flaming June’s, or Komodo’s, or X’s character. And I agree with that belief.

    (And for what it’s worth, clipping one wing of caged birds is horrible).

  551. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 7:55 pm

    @ Dreoilin

    I should have written “..a CENTRAL element..”. Sorry.

  552. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 7:57 pm

    On this day in 1778….

    “The law passed by the Continental Congress on July 30, 1778, declared that it was the “duty of all persons in the service of the United States, as well as all other the inhabitants thereof, to give the earliest information to Congress or other proper authority of any misconduct, frauds or misdemeanors committed by an officers or persons in the service of these states, which may come to their knowledge.”

    It was passed unanimously in response to a whistleblower, Marine Captain John Grannis, who presented a petition to the Continental Congress on March 26, 1777, to have a commander of the Continental Navy, Commodore Esek Hopkins, suspended after he tortured British sailors who were captured.”

  553. Sofia Kibo Noh

    30 Jul, 2013 - 8:04 pm

    @Hasbarakuk.

    Dad!

    The afternoon’s “torrent of cack” receeds down the plug-hole of blog history, seamlessly replaced by “an endless stream of drivel”.

    “…you are simply interested in human rights abuses (which certainly exist) committed by the West and Israel.
    Thank you for coming clean about that.”

    Sorry, I didn’t quite get the logic to that one. Can you explain in short words and give some proper examples to illustrate?

    Does Hiafa Uni teach you to be immune from embarrassment?

  554. Flaming June

    30 Jul, 2013 - 8:05 pm

    The Busted Flush wears on, and on.

  555. Jemand, 7.21pm

    In relation to Assange & Co. I’ll be interested to know how some of the findings will feed into the process of formulating charges by the DoJ, if they don’t already have a sealed indictment.

    My guess: The Garani video as link for direct conspiracy charges against Wikileaks in this Manning trial was always a long shot; the evidence simply wasn’t there (didn’t stop them trying, though). Now they’ll just use the Jason Katz version for the Grand Jury indictment instead. Re the Aiding the Enemy charge – well, you only had to listen to how many times Major Fein spat the words “Assange” and “Wikileaks” in his closing arguments to know what the game was there. But they were hampered by the fact that Manning got out in his plea statement that he’d approached the Washington Post and New York Times first before heading to Wikileaks, and they were forced to admit the charge would apply equally to the Washington press corps if they’d been the ones who carried Manning’s leaks when Judge Lind queried it. I think the First Amendment implications and the fact that Aiding the Enemy applies to “anyone”, not just military personnel, therefore forced her Not Guilty verdict there. Kinda curious as to her reasoning for the Garani video, though – given she must be aware how much the US Govt wanted that one for the Assange Grand Jury case. It’s not like she hasn’t waved through plenty of convictions here for which the prosecution didn’t really offer sufficient evidence too.

    It’s via the Espionage convictions, and follow-through conspiracy charges against Assange that he is genuinely exposed to the death penalty. I think it’s under section 793(d), IIRC. Here, latest Congressional Research Service report on Criminal Prohibitions on the Publication of Classified Defense Information, from January 2013:

    http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/secrecy/R41404.pdf

    Stratfor’s theory on how this could be done was to get the extradition done on criminal computer charges (for example, the CFAA) then declassify the death of an intelligence asset, somehow link that death to Wikileaks’ publications, and add to the charge sheet. The 793(d) becomes a death penalty offence if publication leads to the death of US HUMINT assets.

    This explains why all those top pollies kept screaming the words “blood on their hands” over and over back when the Wikileaks releases were coming out, and why David Leigh’s excretable libel “he said ‘they’re informants, they deserve to die’” was so venal, reckless and dangerous. Bear those two quotes – Stratfor’s and Leigh’s – in mind as you read that section in the Congressional report and you’ll see what I mean.

  556. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 8:19 pm

    ” But they were hampered by the fact that Manning got out in his plea statement that he’d approached the Washington Post and New York Times first before heading to Wikileaks, and they were forced to admit the charge would apply equally to the Washington press corps if they’d been the ones who carried Manning’s leaks when Judge Lind queried it.”

    Yes Arbed. I suspect this was staged to have such an outcome. Obama has publicly stated that we need a watchdog press, but I think he regards only major outlets which are loathe to lose their precious access to government sources, as true members of the Media. Congress is supposedly working on a Shield Law to provide some solace to the lapdogs.

  557. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 8:29 pm

    per my last comment.


    James Ball, the Guardian’s data editor, writes that “the Obama administration didn’t merely go through the motions” in pursuit of Bradley Manning; military authorities “imposed a charge that should have sparked far greater alarm than it did”.

    They argued that by talking to the media, Manning had “aided the enemy” – a charge tantamount to treason, which can carry the death penalty (though this was not pursued in Manning’s case).

    This is not so much the beginning of a slippery slope for a democratic nation as a headlong plummet. A guilty verdict would have redefined the media – from outlets such as WikiLeaks to bastions of the establishment like the New York Times – as proxies for the enemy. It would have ended any distinction between a traitor selling military secrets to the highest bidder and someone speaking to a journalist on a matter of conscience and for no reward.

    By finding Manning not guilty on this dangerous charge (though guilty of espionage and theft), military judge colonel Denise Lind has pulled the US back from the precipice – for now. But that outcome does not alter the fact that such a charge was sought by prosecutors in the first place.”

  558. Sofia Kibo Noh

    30 Jul, 2013 - 8:31 pm

    @Ben. 7 57pm

    Re the “duty of all persons in the service of the United States, as well as all other the inhabitants thereof, to give the earliest information to Congress or other proper authority of any misconduct, frauds or misdemeanors committed by an officers or persons in the service of these states, which may come to their knowledge.”

    I don’t mean to cause offence, but where I come from we assume that (stereotypical) Americans don’t do irony.

    How very wrong we are!

  559. I think we can all agree that human rights are for the victims of Western, or Western-aligned, aggression. Everyone else can go stew because the injustice you are suffering does not fit in with the Murrayistas’ anti-West narrative. Bare-faced liars and hypocrites, the lot of you.

  560. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 8:34 pm

    @ Jemand :

    “You see, it is more important for her to be seen parading her bleeding heart than caring about the real causes of tragedy.”
    _____________

    Obviously, Jemand, because caring about the real causes of tragedy (in the case of refugees from Indonesia, that one-time leader of the “non-aligned world”, the abuse of human and economic rights by the govt of Indonesia) might – oh, horror! – lead her to having to criticise a non-Western govt. And that would never do, would it.

    You and Anon have really got the hypocrites and Eminent Selectivists on the run this time, keep it up!

  561. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 8:35 pm

    Sofia; Add to that, a knowledge of History. Irony is just a rusting metallic substance and denial is a river in Egypt.

  562. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 8:41 pm

    It may of course be mere fancy on my part, but is there not just a slight, sour smell of disappointment in the posts from the Eminences that Mr Manning has NOT been found guilty of aiding the enemy?

    I expect the the same smell will become evident should Mr Manning gets less than the 120 years or whatever that have been thrown around on this blog in the last few hours.

    *******************

    La vita è bella, life is good!

  563. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 8:43 pm

    That’s your only contribution to the issue of Manning? What sentence would your sense of justice demand?

  564. Flaming June

    30 Jul, 2013 - 8:47 pm

    WIKILEAKS CASE:Website founder Julian Assange condemns verdict, describing Bradley Manning as a ‘hero’

  565. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 8:50 pm

    Reporters without borders have issued a statement on the Manning verdict:

    The information that Manning allegedly passed to WikiLeaks – used by newspapers such as The New York Times, The Guardian, Der Spiegel and Le Monde in coordination with Julian Assange’s website – included revelations of grave abuses in the ‘war on terror’ launched by the Bush administration.

    The ‘collateral’ fatal shooting of Reuters employees by a US Army helicopter in Baghdad in July 2007 is a well-known example. Should this reality have been concealed from the U.S. public and international opinion? Which was more serious – committing such crimes or revealing them to the public?

    The conditions in which Manning has been held, his unfair trial and the lack of transparency during the hearings speak volumes about the fate reserved for whistle-blowers and the way the rule of law is being flouted. Edward Snowden would have every reason to fear persecution, as defined by the Geneva Conventions, if he were to return to the United States.

  566. Flaming June

    30 Jul, 2013 - 8:51 pm

  567. “It may of course be mere fancy on my part, but is there not just a slight, sour smell of disappointment in the posts from the Eminences that Mr Manning has NOT been found guilty of aiding the enemy?”

    Exactly my thoughts, Habbabkuk. There is certainly a tangible sense of disappointment over on RT, where they were were clearly hoping for Manning to be bound and gagged and sent to the gas chamber. One has to have one’s prejudices confirmed!

  568. Flaming June

    30 Jul, 2013 - 9:10 pm

    No crime is too large or too small for the crooked bankers to commit. Remember B.Liar has a financial connection to J P Morgan.

    JP Morgan pays $410m to settle US energy case
    JP Morgan chief executive Jamie Dimon has been trying to improve the image of the bank

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    JP Morgan to advise on bank sale
    JP Morgan boss wins shareholder vote
    JP Morgan makes record profit

    JP MorganChase’s energy unit has agreed to pay $410m (£268m) to settle charges from the top US energy regulator that it manipulated energy markets.

    The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) agency alleged JPMorgan’s trading practices drove up prices for electricity, mainly in California and the Midwest.

    The fine is the second largest penalty in FERC history.

    /..
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23506803#

  569. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 9:10 pm

    Media not out of the woods. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/30/bradley-manning-verdict-bad-news-for-journalists

    “The Manning verdict had plenty of bad news for the press. By finding Manning guilty of five counts of espionage, the judge endorsed the government’s other radical theories, and left the journalism organization that initially passed along the leaks to the public, Wikileaks, no less vulnerable than it had been before the case started. Anyone who thinks Julian Assange isn’t still a target of the US Government hasn’t been paying attention; if the US can pry him loose from Ecuador’s embassy in London and extradite him, you can be certain that he’ll face charges, too, and the Manning verdict will be vital to that case.

    The military tried its best to make life difficult for journalists covering the Manning trial, but activists – not traditional journalists – were the ones who fought restrictions most successfully. Transcripts weren’t provided by the government, for example. Only when the Freedom of the Press Foundation crowd-sourced a court stenographer did the public get a record, however flawed, of what was happening.

    That public included most of the press, sad to say. Only a few American news organizations (one is the Guardian’s US edition) bothered to staff the Manning trial in any serious way. Independent journalists did most of the work, and did it as well as it could be done under the circumstances.”

  570. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 9:12 pm

    ‘exactly my thoughts’

    The tag-team high-fives. TV wrestling is fake too.

  571. “but is there not just a slight, sour smell of disappointment in the posts from the Eminences that Mr Manning has NOT been found guilty of aiding the enemy?”

    Póg mo thóin, Habbabkuk. You’re as thick as manure but not half as useful. Take your feckin ‘sour smells’ elsewhere. And take Anon with you.
    Just because you dissemble here doesn’t mean everyone else does too.

  572. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 9:16 pm

    @ Ben Franklin (20h43)

    “That’s your only contribution to the issue of Manning?”
    ___________________

    Just trying to adjust my level of debate (almost but not quite) down to yours, my Sage friend.

    Example :

    “Must’ve hit a raw nerve.” (your contribution to my post on Komodo’s previous outburst of hysterics)

    ******************

    La vita è bella, life is good!

  573. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 9:20 pm

    So, you have nothing to add. ‘Natch!

  574. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 9:20 pm

    @ Dreoilin

    It’s gratifying to see that Mary’s couple of hurt remarks some while back have had the effect of bringing you firmly back on side.

    I have to hand it to Mary, she’s got you lot sussed out :)

  575. Anon – “Exactly my thoughts, Habbabkuk. There is certainly a tangible sense of disappointment over on RT, where they were were clearly hoping for Manning to be bound and gagged and sent to the gas chamber”

    Classic DIY tag team instructions from the manual written in herzliya !! Why even 911er ehud borg would be proud !

  576. What did Manning actually achieve other than dumping a load of classified government material online? The “Collateral Damage” video was indeed shocking, but it had already been reported on. And what has Wikileaks actually achieved, other than monumental amounts of self-publicity? In every country, what Manning did would be deemed a seditious act and dealt with accordingly, and, in most cases, much more severely. I have much more admiration for Snowden, who revealed something worth knowing. That said, Snowden’s big mistake was in ‘revealing’ US spying on foreign governments. He should have stuck with PRISM, and by doing so would have avoided accusations of treachery.

  577. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 9:31 pm

    @ Ben

    And what are you adding to the debate, other than covering up your disappointment with the verdict by spewing out garbage every 20 minutes or so (20h19, 20h29, 20h50, 21h10…) designed to put the US in the worst possible light again?

    ******************

    La vita è bella, life is good!

  578. Sofia Kibo Noh

    30 Jul, 2013 - 9:36 pm

    @Dad! and Team

    Póg mine too while you’re about it, the lot of you.

    Then go and do something useful with your lives.

    You are bloody useless at disrupting this blog.

    All you do is demonstrate the bankruptcy of the misery-dealing elite agendas that you peddle.

    Why can’t we have a half fit-for purpose bunch of trolls?

  579. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 9:37 pm

    “And what are you adding to the debate, other than covering up your disappointment with the verdict by spewing out garbage every 20 minutes or so (20h19, 20h29, 20h50, 21h10…) designed to put the US in the worst possible light again?”

    Praise from Caesar.

  580. LOL @ Sofia

  581. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 9:41 pm

    Still on the theme of disappointment, sour smell thereof:

    Just suppose, for a moment, that there were to be a just and fair outcome to the forthcoming Israel – Palestine talks.

    What on earth would the Eminences do?

    Well, of course, they would – using their superior knowledge – say that the outcome is not really just and fair at all.

    And then, a second thought. Supposing – oh, horror of horrors! – the Palestinians and the Israelis endorsed the outcome in their referendums!

    What then?

    I predict one of two outcomes :

    - the Eminences would commit group suicide

    or

    - they would finally have to start blogging on injustices and violations of human rights elsewhere (Russia, China, Africa, South America, the Indian sub-continent….).

    It’s a terrible thought and I’m beginning to wish I hadn’t thought of it at all.

    **********************

    La vita è bella, life is good!

  582. Honestly if sewage satanyahu were to turn up again at the UN Podium with the kind of see through yarmulkers this two man tag team are wearing, he may be laughed out of the Plenary session just like madoffs wife was in Judge Chins court with her “I am having to pay for his security out of my own money” !! More worryingly such shameless yiddery is a sign the millennial blowback must be near, and with it vast collateral damage.

  583. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 9:57 pm

    Habbacack is quite upset at my lack of Nationalistic pride as though that’s a defining measure for members of the human race. A love of one’s country is a terrible thing. It’s a Patriot Game for fools and scoundrels who have little else in their bag for humanity and themselves

  584. Ben Franklin, 8.29pm

    Is this the article by James Ball you’re talking about?

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/30/bradley-manning-trial-enemy-not-guilty

    Hmmm. Presumably this article is James Ball’s attempt to appear to have been a supporter of Bradley Manning all along.

    Oh, the hypocrisy.

    I thought this bit was particularly piquant:

    By finding Manning not guilty on this dangerous charge (though guilty of espionage and theft),

    Which conveniently leaves out the fact that it was James Ball’s own spiteful “accidental” leaking of the Wikileaks Non-Disclosure Agreement he did/did not sign (delete depending on which version of the story/confession of Ball’s you believe) on Twitter, which the US government used as evidence of the “value” of all those theft charges against Bradley Manning they’ve just convicted him on.

    The maths: That’s a potential 45 years out of those 136 to which James Ball has made such a “supportive” contribution.

    More details here:

    http://wikileaks.org/IMG/html/gibney-transcript.html#4004

  585. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 10:39 pm

    I think it was a tweet on the live thread (Guardian) but I didn’t know he apparently displeased someone, Arbed Murky circumstances around the ‘signing’ and intent. If he’s a burrowing worm, he hasn’t turned yet AFAICT. His work shows fairly consistent support, but I’m not reading between the lines yet.

  586. OMG…Poor Bradley Not Guilty of Aiding the Enemy But Faces 130 Years in Prison
    All for exposing us war crimes – SAD SAD SAD

    http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=10503

  587. I see this bloke has been posting again:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReJgCZ0DGnY

  588. Ben, 10.39pm

    Oh, no kidding is it a murky business. At the time James Ball claimed the “accidental” leaking of the NDA on Twitter was that he was having a Twitter discussion about it with another journo who half-inched stuff from Wikileaks, Heather Brooke (who manipulated a copy of Cablegate out of a stressed volunteer and ran off with it to the Guardian, which enabled them to break their contract with Wikileaks and attempt to cut them out), and he simply “forgot” to send it to her by Twitter DM (private message). It was instantly picked up by David Allen Green who used it in the New Statesman, which James Ball then bounced off to write his own smear article about it in the Guardian. Standard M.O.

    Don’t know how carefully you read that link to the Gibney transcript note, but my interpretation of this bit:

    While Assange was in prison it was discovered that someone had accessed the Sunshine Press press contacts account using an email client, and had mirrored its archive. Ball had briefly been given access to the account. Documents from the account subsequently appeared in the Guardian. [my emphasis] Physical documents went missing, and Ball’s behaviour became erratic.

    is that it was James Ball who stole the Swedish police protocol from the Wikileaks email account and leaked it to Nick Davies at the Guardian. Hence, like Heather Brooke, he was rewarded with a job at the Guardian. It was Nick Davies’ seriously skewed write up of the leaked protocol – entitled “10 Days in Sweden” – which really started the whole “rapist” smear campaign against Assange in the English-speaking media. As James Ball’s dates at Wikileaks are 23 November-15 December and Assange was in Wandsworth prison 7 December-16 December and Nick Davies’ article was published on 17 December, I reckon – allowing a couple of days to get cherrypicked parts of the protocol translated – that James Ball was Davies’ anonymous source.

    The little shit.

  589. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    30 Jul, 2013 - 11:04 pm

    Oh, I didn’t see that triangular connection, arbed.

    What about these guys?

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/leak-at-wikileaks-a-dispatch-disaster-in-six-acts-a-783778.html

  590. Ben, 11.04pm

    Der Spiegel gets a clean bill of health. They were actually the ones who tipped off Assange to the impending double-cross of the Guardian and New York Times, and played the peacemaker role when Assange went storming into the Guardian’s offices on 1st November with the lawyers and threatened to take the whole lot to rival media organisations if the pair of them didn’t behave. The double-cross apparently involved going ahead with publishing selected bits of Cablegate 10 days early, with Wikileaks cut out of the deal entirely (and, of course, the New York Times vetting whatever would be published with the White House first). It was actually an exceedingly cavalier and dangerous thing to do – not just to the then-unknown source Bradley Manning – but because Wikileaks still had people in the United States, who would have been put at incredible risk.

  591. Hi Ben…. agreed, Gandhi said something along the lines that Christianity sounds fine, but he’s just not so sure about our Christians. I agree that some of the principles the prophet Jesus is said to have put forward are very good indeed – in fact, most religions have at their heart a few core doctrines which would make the world so much better. Love thy neighbour. Do unto others as you would have done to do. Do not lie, cheat or steal, honour your parents, and don’t be greedy. Do not worship money.

    All quite simple, and as relevant today as they were in Biblical times. Organised religion seemed to be among the things Jesus most despised.

  592. In case anyone wants a smile:

    Richard Dawkins reads his hate emails

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZuowNcuGsc

  593. Sofia @ 9;36
    Exelent, what a chuckle

  594. not just to the then-unknown source Bradley Manning

    Sorry, that should be ‘then-unconfirmed’. Although he’d been arrested and Wired had published the chatlogs between Bradass87 and Adrian Lamo, Manning had neither confessed at that point nor were the partial chatlogs released by Wired viewed as necessarily authentic, given their source.

  595. Dreoilin@ 11:20pm Another smile.

    http://internationaltimes.it/thought-for-the-day/

  596. Love the fascinator :)

  597. Habbabkuk wrote, “It may of course be mere fancy on my part, but is there not just a slight, sour smell of disappointment in the posts from the Eminences that Mr Manning has NOT been found guilty of aiding the enemy?”

    Surely that is mere fancy, and not sooth? For myself, I found considerable relief if not momentary joy when a colleague passed on the news during a conversation this afternoon. (He received it via something called a “text message”, I have not advanced much further than the telephone device.)

    *

    The initial thought was that justice has shone through! Military justice has seen fit to ignore the wishes of the establishment. My elation was rapidly deflated upon hearing there were enough charges upheld, to incarcerate Manning for a significant term. All the same, at least the mandatory life sentence was not going to be imposed.

    Why would the Eminences be happy at a guilty verdict? I don’t read them that way at all. There are surely enough injustices to go around – another martyr is not required. Anon’s staggeringly distorted view of the interests and motives of the Left is not uncommon, it appears – but surely you, Habbabkuk, are not given to such gross misinterpretation?

    At worst, I thought lefties would be accused of insufficient worldliness – given to considering good in those who are downright rotten. Unduly indulgent – and arguably soft – on criminals, professional claimants, terrorists, generally insufficiently condemning and overly understanding at times.

    It’s rather strange to see motives attributed that never were there at all – to see lefties accused of outright lies when they claim concern, and to expect them to feel cheated by an outcome they purport to welcome. Very strange. Perhaps I will become more enlightened as to why this reaction was expected with more conversation.

    *

    It occurs that the Right brings false concern and lies about their motives as a matter of course, so they assume their political opposites are surely doing the same. For instance, Tories feign concern about the well-being of the working man, claim a “free market” is about justice and equal competition for all, while their every single act ensures the tables are tilted in their favour. Neo-libertarian idealists are useful idiots and indulged.

    True independents (arguably, the relatively uninformed), looking at the blatant self-indulgence of the Right, and the hideous performance of the supposed Left (in the form of “New” Labour and the Obama administrations), might conclude that both are equally bereft of merit, and simply engaging in alternative forms of a cynical ploy to win power, by appealing to popularism.

    Do you feel any of the above explains the perceived motives of Leftists, and why it is thought they might have been disappointed by Mannings’ not guilty verdict on the major crime ?

  598. Habbakuk,

    “It may of course be mere fancy on my part, but is there not just a slight, sour smell of disappointment in the posts from the Eminences that Mr Manning has NOT been found guilty of aiding the enemy?”

    Oh dear.You really are scraping the barrel there.It reveals much about you Habbabkuk:You really are getting desperate and more twisted than usual-which is saying something.

  599. Glenn, great posts — balanced and comprehensive in attempt to cover every angle.

    My only issue with the general applicability of your observations to the Eminences here is that the ‘word’ is not the ‘thing’. The word compassion is not compassion itself. Mostly what i see here are Little Englander leftists who are bitter losers filled with hate, envy and jealousy. These people may or may not be Christians but do not demonstrate that they have thought through life wholly/holistically– including human suffering, anger, envy, jealousy, hate, desire, becoming, self-centred activities of the ego, transformation, the process of change — in a meaningful enough way for their claims of owning the ground of compassion to sit well with, for example, their practice of hate. This makes me deeply suspicious that they are in it for the game. Wanting to play with the structures of governance, these are not the people i would trust to help bring about change in the world and especially not through their perceived flag of compassion.

    There is some resonance in what i am saying to your observation “True independents (arguably, the relatively uninformed), looking at the blatant self-indulgence of the Right, and the hideous performance of the supposed Left (in the form of “New” Labour and the Obama administrations), might conclude that both are equally bereft of merit, and simply engaging in alternative forms of a cynical ploy to win power, by appealing to popularism.”

    I am just going further and peering into the human mind, the collective of which forms human consciousness and saying that true right action can only come after these verbose moaners and posters have taken a good honest look at themselves in the mirror of relationship, including the conduct of those here, and achieved a certain refinement of their dull minds before they can claim authentic intelligence from which true compassion might have a chance to flow. In the meantime, they are only fooling themselves. Even the Right can see through that have a good laugh at their expense which is happening.

  600. Sofia Kibo Noh

    31 Jul, 2013 - 7:59 am

    @Villager. 2 02am

    It is said that the best sermon goes over one’s head – and hits one’s neighbour.

    “The word compassion is not compassion itself.

    …bitter losers filled with hate, envy and jealousy…

    …do not demonstrate that they have thought through life wholly/holistically– including human suffering, anger, envy, jealousy, hate, desire…

    …their claims of owning the ground of compassion…

    true right action can only come after these verbose moaners and posters have taken a good honest look at themselves……..and achieved a certain refinement of their dull minds before they can claim authentic intelligence from which true compassion might have a chance to flow..

    I am just going further and peering into the human mind…”

    Thanks for the latest blockbuster, so dripping with condescension and ill will towards people whose motives and minds you will never penetrate.

    On the other hand the regular motions that you pass into these threads reveal much about yours.

  601. Sofia KN, are you going to reply to my question posed to you re your thought experiment on compassionate groups A & B?

    You sort of left me hanging there, leaving me to wonder if you realised that it might have demonstrated the opposite of what you had hoped.

  602. These people do not demonstrate that they have thought through life wholly/holistically– including human suffering, anger, envy, jealousy, hate, desire, becoming, self-centred activities of the ego, transformation, the process of change — in a meaningful enough way for their claims of owning the ground of compassion to sit well with, for example, their practice of hate. This makes me deeply suspicious that they are in it for the game. Wanting to play with the structures of governance, these are not the people i would trust to help bring about change in the world and especially not through their perceived flag of compassion.

    A Christian (I am not one) might say “Judge not that ye be not judged.”
    A certain kind of Buddhist (I am/not one) might say (as in Suzuki’s story):
    “When your mind is thus in a state of absolutely-doing-nothingness, the world is identified with your self, which means that you make no choice between right and wrong, like and dislike, and are above all forms of abstraction…”

    If you were the Buddha, Villager, you would not write what you have just written there. And yet you are the Buddha….manifest here and now. Embrace the duality!

  603. Because of the self there is the foe; when there is no self there is no foe

  604. Sofia Kibo Noh

    31 Jul, 2013 - 10:14 am

    @Jemand. 9 26am

    Apologies. I took your question for an answer.

    “Does this hypothetical exercise, absent of any real evidence, prove anything?”

    Answer. No.

    It was an exercise of the imagination and not presented as a proof.

    I was asking you to consider oddsnot inevitabilities.

    My reading of the odds in such a hypothetical situation is simply that I’d expect to have more of a chance of thriving if I was part of a population whose responses to each other were proportionately more compassionate. Over time I would expect such a population to be far more likely to thrive.

  605. As soon as ’you’ find a ’node’ ‘they’ r goin 2 find it 2
    So witchway r u going⅔ turn next¿¡

  606. Mine is not a search 4 ‘futility’
    It is an exercize in ‘meaning’
    Pt

  607. I hate the fucking ‘fascists’ … whether they are the bnp edl ukip or ‘whatever’ … pt

  608. ‘How could “they” “gas” so many peop at once?’
    And thatt was ‘only’ treblinka (they had not got on to ‘ow twitch’ yet)

  609. Sofia Kibo Noh

    31 Jul, 2013 - 11:18 am

    @Ben. yesterday evening

    Thanks for all the posts on Bradley Manning’s show trial. What a hero!

    More irony and history from the “Land of the Free”:

    “As a father, it pains me what he did, but as an American citizen, I am absolutely thankful for what he did.’’ Lon Snowden

    National Whistleblower Day

    Howard Zinn “A People’s History of the United States”

    Dee Brown “Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee “

  610. I am Bradley Manning
    But i am safe in my european home so i am never going to have to face the consequences for .,,

  611. These psychological analyses of us carried out remotely by Villager leave me gob smacked.

  612. Fastidious respond in return of this query with real arguments and explaining all regarding that.

  613. Glenn_uk

    Jesus pbuh may be coming back soon as a Muslim to Damascus if it exists after Obama has flattened it and its inhabitants in a few weeks time.

  614. Flaming June

    31 Jul, 2013 - 1:10 pm

    Hell hath no fury like an ex ….Tory party co-treasurer… scorned.

    ‘Mr Cruddas, standing outside the High Court, also criticised the Tory leadership, saying: “The fact remains that, when the story broke, the behaviour of the Conservative Party made the whole thing a lot worse.

    “The fact that Mr [David] Cameron said it was quite right I resigned [when] he didn’t have my side of the story.”

    He added: “The Conservative Party, by not giving me support… and lining up to criticise me in public, made the situation a lot worse.”‘

    Ex-Tory treasurer Cruddas wins £180,000 libel damages
    Peter Cruddas resigned as Conservative Party co-treasurer hours after the reports in March 2012
    Former Conservative co-treasurer Peter Cruddas has won £180,000 libel damages over Sunday Times allegations about charging to meet David Cameron.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23517977

  615. Kimodo dragoon
    Because there is no self there is no f.o.
    Because there iz nu fu there is no …
    Flaming June
    Because there is no fresh/new/nu psychologocical investigatiçion of …
    There is no ‘final solution’/'closure’ ..,
    Thank goodnesz!

  616. You are a bare-faced liar.

    You also hate Israel, and I’d say – judging by your latest frenzied series of posts – that you hate the good people who make you aware of your hatred.

    I see you have a good working knowledge of hatred yourself, old chum. Nice to see the real Old Testament prophet surfacing from the prolix and disdainful pixels you occupy here. And I get a real sense of achievement from that.

    You’re talking sewage. JFJFP addresses the matter, too.

    POLLUTION OF PALESTINIAN WATER SOURCES BY ISRAEL

    • Israeli settlements in the West Bank and Gaza are mostly located on hilltops and dump manure, untreated sewage and wastewater into the valleys – polluting Palestinian water sources and agricultural land. According to 1997 figures from the West Bank, settlers were 6 times more polluting that Palestinians (300,000 settlers produced 30 mcm of wastewater a year, while in the same period, 1,870,000 Palestinians produced 31 mcm of wastewater).

    • Highly polluting Israeli industries are being relocated to the West Bank (again, on hilltops) to avoid Israeli environmental regulations. At least 200 industries in 7 industrial zones in the West Bank send untreated industrial effluents and wastewater into Palestinian streams and agricultural land.

    • In February 2001, Israel discharged 3.5 million cubic meters of untreated wastewater mixed with rainwater into northern Gaza strip towns.

    http://jfjfp.com/?p=46608&utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=the-untreated-blight-of-west-bank-sewage

    What’s not to love?

  617. Dr drag artist goon
    I don’t hate israel
    I simply recognize palestine
    Pt

  618. Me too, Pt.
    But some don’t know the difference.

  619. Flaming June

    31 Jul, 2013 - 2:57 pm

    A video of the Israeli deliberate fouling with sewage of Palestinian land was one of the first You Tubes I saw when I went on the internet in 2007. Memorable for me. For the Palestinians it must be heartbreaking to see their land fouled in this way.

    Israel’s sewage war on Palestinian Farmers Part 1 of 4
    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e80_1366315242 Part 1

  620. K + fj
    Points acknowledged
    Pt

  621. K + fj
    Points acknowledged
    Pt x

  622. Flaming June

    31 Jul, 2013 - 4:56 pm

    The Return of Martin Indyk
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/07/31/the-return-of-martin-indyk/

    ‘Now that Obama and Netanyahu have contrived another virtual peace process, he has come forward to offer his judgment that peace indeed is to be had. The initiative badly needs a supposedly authoritative seal of approval. For it is nonsensical to think that anything close to a meaningful agreement and stable settlement cam emerge from current conditions. Let’s remind ourselves of its cardinal features. An ultra right Israeli government headed by an avowed opponent to any serious concessions at whose side is Foreign Minister and governmental no. 2, Avigdor Lieberman, who has been described as a “Jewish fascist” by the most honest and prescient of Israeli commentators –Uri Avnery. That is one. An American president who has been humiliated repeatedly and personally by Netanyahu who holds over his head the drawn sword of the Israeli lobby. Obama was stared down on the settlements, cowed into submission to the point where he reflexively swallowed whole, and publicly parroted word by word the Jerusalem spin on the Gaza flotilla affair. That is two. Mushrooming Israeli settlements (all illegal) on the West Bank that, along with collateral infrastructure, have eaten up a large fraction of Palestinian land. Those ‘facts on the ground’ are three. Then there is the hapless Mr. Abbas – used as a dish rag by both the Israelis and Americans – whose sole value for them is as signatory of an accord composed and issued jointly by Netanyahu and Obama. The fact that Abbas’ authority has been shredded by his repeated forced obeisance to the will of the Palestinians’ keepers is conveniently overlooked. A nominal President whose writ, such as it is, runs for only half the people and territory of Palestine he officially represents, he still will suffice for the legal formalities to be met. That is four.’

  623. I hope everyone didn’t misunderstand my “31 Jul, 2013 – 1:08 am” post… glanced at, it might appear to mean the opposite of its intent.

  624. It’ll be a sad sad day that Villager concludes her mission amongst us, and returns jungingly to quieter and even more remote contemplation

    http://www.onetikk.com/blog/1395/sceilg-mhich%C3%ADl/

  625. Sofia Kibo Noh

    31 Jul, 2013 - 7:09 pm

    Glen. 5 37pm

    Re your 1 08am post “…why would the Eminences be happy at a guilty verdict?”

    No danger of your piece being misunderstood by anyone who took the trouble to read it. And your stuff is always worth the effort.

    At worst you were feeding the trolls. But then, aren’t most of us guilty on that charge and they’ll infest blogs like this whether we feed them or not.

    And to be fair on the useless feckers, they do spark of some interesting and amusing exchanges and make sure that issues like justice for the Palestinians and the more informative posters get plenty of attention. We could petition Haifa Uni to give us some better ones, but like they say, “the devil you know…”

    I’m sure the comments threads would wither a bit if all we could do here is agree with each other?

    So please keep on posting your insights. You have at least one fan.

  626. Flaming June

    31 Jul, 2013 - 7:11 pm

  627. Sofia: You are very kind, thank you for the assurance that at least some sense could be made of that post :)

  628. Komodo
    U are terrifying in ur knowingness
    Flaming july
    U2

    &thenitwereaugust in thesubjunctive

  629. Komodo
    U are terrifying in ur knowingness
    Flaming july
    U2

    &thenitwereaugust in thesubjunctive

    Pt x

  630. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    31 Jul, 2013 - 8:25 pm

    Glenn; You were missed. Glad you are back and hopefully fit-as-a-fiddle. Now if we could just get Clark back on a schedule. Cryptonym and Guano, likewise.

  631. technicolour

    31 Jul, 2013 - 9:12 pm

    Glenn, very considered and comprehensive response, much appreciated, thanks.

  632. technicolour

    31 Jul, 2013 - 9:22 pm

    ps I’m not good enough to be left wing :)

  633. technicolour

    31 Jul, 2013 - 9:30 pm

    For example, I was overwhelmed with something when it turned out that Bradley Manning was not going to be sentenced to death, but it was a combination of relief and gratitude – and horror and disgust that this was ever the possibility. I can’t say how I feel about the idea that he faces life in prison for espionage, because the fact that he was found guilty of espionage in the first place seems unworthy of even typing: we know what a spy is, and it was not Bradley Manning. Did he plead guilty to those charges after his ‘cruel and inhuman’ torture on remand?

  634. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    31 Jul, 2013 - 11:09 pm

    Tech; not sure if you saw this yesterday, but the irony and synchronicity of the date July 30 boggles the mind.

    “The law passed by the Continental Congress on July 30, 1778, declared that it was the “duty of all persons in the service of the United States, as well as all other the inhabitants thereof, to give the earliest information to Congress or other proper authority of any misconduct, frauds or misdemeanors committed by an officers or persons in the service of these states, which may come to their knowledge.”

    It was passed unanimously in response to a whistleblower, Marine Captain John Grannis, who presented a petition to the Continental Congress on March 26, 1777, to have a commander of the Continental Navy, Commodore Esek Hopkins, suspended after he tortured British sailors who were captured.”

    Nuff said?

  635. Sofia wrote, “

    @Glenn. 5 44 and 5 53pm

    I can understand privileged right-wing parasites thinking their entitlement to our taxes is a good thing.

    What baffles me is the “clever” apologists and the obviously willing crowds who line the streets to wave plastic flags (made in China) and, when they can, give their votes to privileged right-wing parasites.”

    About the “clever” apologists – the privileged right-wing parasites you mention have enough money to hire people to tell them what they want to hear. John Kenneth Galbraith, economist to F. Roosevelt, said in the 1930s : “The modern conservative is engaged in one of man’s oldest exercises moral philosophies, that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.”

    The apologists for these philosophies believe this stuff, they are sociopaths, or they just rationalise it as having to make a good living. Or some combination thereof. Somewhat akin to gun-runners – somebody would do it, so why not do it myself? And maybe I can can steer it in a better direction, etc., as Blair rationalised his pitching in with Dubbya’s invasion and occupation of Iraq.

    The flag-wavers are rather sadder, IMO… they simply think they are doing the right thing, being patriotic, even regarding it as wholesome entertainment. After all, it’s officially sanctioned, The Sun et al promotes this flag-waving as simply good citizenship, the BBC reports on it all day long, so they’ll get no criticism and possible brownie points.

    The fact that these filthy Tories get elected for anything, anywhere – even dog-catcher in a rough area – is testimony to the power of propaganda, generalised stupidity and ignorance, and nothing else.

  636. Tech/ Ben: Thanks. Much appreciated.

  637. Flaming June

    1 Aug, 2013 - 8:25 am

    XKeyscore: NSA tool collects ‘nearly everything a user does on the internet’

    • XKeyscore gives ‘widest-reaching’ collection of online data
    • NSA analysts require no prior authorization for searches
    • Sweeps up emails, social media activity and browsing history
    • NSA’s XKeyscore program – read one of the presentations

    Glenn Greenwald
    31 July 2013 13.56 BST
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-secret-program-online-data

  638. “The program allows intelligence officials to conduct surveillance even when their targets are unknown, or are performing supposedly anonymous activity such as browsing the web. Unlike other systems, it does not require a “strong selector,” such as an email address or IP address, to conduct surveillance.”

    http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/08/guar-a01.html

  639. Flaming June

    1 Aug, 2013 - 2:39 pm

    Weird weather. It’s 29C here with 76% humidity. Thank goodness for potable water out of the tap. Tomorrow back to 15C apparently.

  640. Sofia Kibo Noh

    1 Aug, 2013 - 4:24 pm

    Turbine à Glace Professionnelle 11:26 am

    “This post is worth everyone’s attention. How can I find out more?”

    Welcome to the menagerie.

    Opinions and links aplenty to explore. A wonderfully diverse blog-ecology filled with creatures of passion, intellect and compassion, sly parasites, noisy drunks, clever chappies and paid henchmen. Who could ask for anything more?

    What will you bring?

    Thanks Craig for creating this space.

  641. From time to time in (un)certain social situations …
    A drunk appears
    Babbles somewhat ambiguously for a while
    Then disappears …

  642. Ditto SKN
    Thanks Craig (and allies) for creating this space.
    Pt

  643. Alan Rusbridger of the Guardian appears to have opened a Q&A section on Reddit regarding the Guardian and Snowden

    A couple of interesting questions were asked regarding Snowden and Assange:

    Q1:
    [–]wokkachikka 17 points 1 day ago
    Given how the relationship between The Guardian and Assange soured quite spectacularly, did you approach this story and Snowden differently?

    A1:
    No answer from Rusbridger

    Q2:/a>
    [–]mickstep 130 points 1 day ago
    1, What do you think of Noam Chomsky’s and Edward Herman’s Propaganda Model?
    2, Does the propaganda model apply to the Guardian/Observer? If not why not?
    3, Do you have a response to Craig Murray’s claim about Amelia Hill’s article about Julian Assange addressing the Oxford Union
    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/01/amelia-hill-is-a-dirty-liar/ ?

    A2:
    [–]alanrusbridger[S] 123 points 1 day ago
    1: I haven’t read it. On my reading list: along with Middlemarch, War and Peace and Harry Potter.
    2: I’ll let you know once I’ve read it
    3: Not really. His most explosive Guardian revelation to date is that I wear a wig (I don’t)

    I find it interesting the the editor of a so-called left wing newspaper isn’t aware of the propaganda potential of journalism and how the state uses that potential. The answers to the seconds and third questions are suitably evasive.

  644. The Grauniad seems to have been quite active in releasing Snowden’s material. A good one today on GCHQ’s cosy relationship with NSA…R4 News mentioned it too.

    MSM front page – sorry.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/aug/01/nsa-paid-gchq-spying-edward-snowden

    Facts You Always Knew But No-one Would Ever Admit Them.

  645. Flaming June

    2 Aug, 2013 - 2:17 pm

    The ConDems have flogged off our blood plasma (given freely by volunteers inc me for +25 years for their sick and injured brothers and sisters) to the privateers.

    http://www.redpepper.org.uk/bain-capital-the-vampire-firm-thats-just-bought-our-blood-supply/

    Unbloodybelievable. I am getting really angry.

    Their project to privatise the NHS will go down the pan, if slowly.

    They have had to take back the operations of Clinicenta, a division of Carillion, who were running Listercare in Stevenage. Mind you our taxes have paid £53m for the privilege. A lose lose situation.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-23546240

  646. Thanks for you apt description above Arbed, Nick Davies is a little shit and his actions have led to a series of consequences he should be hauled over a barrel for. He and Martin Indyk have a lot of smell in common.

    ‘I was so relieved to hear that Lt. William caley, war criminal, only got three years for murdering a whole village of civilians in Vietnam.’

    US logic, ha, a contradiction in terms if there ever was one, follows that Bradley Manning should get life, should he not?

    Will the verdict be a judgement on the US judicial system? will it have progressed since the heady days of ‘collecting gooks ears for beer’?

    off course if you are educated, as Lt. Caley was, he would have used the term Victor Charlie for Viet Cong.

    Free Bradley Manning NOW!

  647. Just to remind those clambering for arguments to send BM down for life that this war crime has yet to come to trial and is one of the few that is known.
    As far as we know there could be dozens of other incidents.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0

  648. Yonatan, at 9:03am: Underlying the substance of the specific and very relevant points you attempted to raise with Rusbridger, only shamefully to be dismissed as ‘just another peasant’ is a deeper, structural fact. As in a private school Debating Society, sections of the ruling class assume various rhetorical positions but remain the ruling class. Only they can instrumentalise consent and dissent and only through them is art, politics and the generally accepted view of the world mediated by these things deemed credible. Rusbridger’s typically metropolitan, snobbish response to you is a superb example of Chomsky and Herman’s model but it also exemplifies a very British social class narrative.

  649. An interview with Adam Michnik, long time Solidarity member and political dissident. here he speaks about the current nationalism that is sweeping Eastern Europe.

    It is the sort of view of Eastern European countries you rarely find discussed here.

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/polish-dissident-adam-michnik-on-eastern-europe-after-communism-a-913912.html

  650. I absolutely love the latest statement by Fabian Picardo, Chief Minister of Gibraltar, the dirty little money-laundry for international criminals who are helped to salt their money away by MI6.

    Clearly saying what he really ‘thinks’, he says the Spanish government is acting “like North Korea”.

    Yeah, sure, mate.

    This is pigshit-stupid Tory kneejerking in action. Guardian readers, trendy this that and the other, ‘lefties’ of all descriptions, trade union militants, reformers of all kinds, pacifists, Quakers, ultraleftists, anti-monarchists, ‘intellectuals’, Christians who run food banks, opponents of nuclear weapons and nuclear power, and above all, FOREIGNERS and those who have any truck with them – we were all once upon a time told to GET BACK TO RUSSIA. There’s something bloody wrong with the lot of us!

    We’re nothing but bandwagon-jumpers. We’ve got absolutely no thoughts in our heads and absolutely no solid base on which to stand our attitudes. We don’t think at all.

    Either that, of course, or our opponents have got rabies.

    Rabies, with little pictures of the ‘Queen’ and a slogan saying ‘INHERITED WEALTH FOREVER!’ imprinted on every single virus.

    Don’t let any facts get in the way. Never mind, for example, that when Soviet leader Nikita Krushchev came to Britain in 1956 he said that if he were British he’d vote Conservative.

    Only a trendy lefty would make such an irritating point, right?

    But it’s not ‘Get back to Russia’ any more.

    Oh no; times’ have moved on. For anyone who’s opposed in any way to the absolute right of inherited wealth, to the cesspools of vomit known as ‘queen, country, and Tory Party’, nowadays it’s “HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO LIVE IN NORTH KOREA?”

    Shall I tell you what? These morons are going to do themselves big-time harm if they maintain this kind of orientation. They’re sounding increasingly like the hangers-on around the Hohenzollerns, Habsburgs and Romanovs in 1917-18. More please! Give it the best you’ve got!

  651. @Nevermind

    Thanks for the Adam Michnik link. If you are interested in profound aspects of what has been going on in eastern Europe but which are hardly ever discussed in western Europe, you will also find the writings of Georg Tamas very useful.

    I would especially recommend this article.

    Tamas, who was an MP in Hungary in the early 1990s, mentions facts such as the following:

    1) In Poland, 41 MPs proposed a bill to appoint Jesus Christ as honorary president of Poland, with some wanting to amend this to honorary king. The speaker threw it out on a technicality, not daring to risk a vote because they might have won.

    2) In Hungary, MPs discussed for 5 months what the republican coat of arms should be, and decided that it should include the holy crown; but there was no significant debate on unemployment when 2 million jobs disappeared in a country with a population of 10 million.

  652. I’m posting this spammish comment because I note that the number of comments on this thread has been ’666′ for a week or more. And as we know, if the comments close at ’666′ on any thread on any blog on the web, the world will begin to end. If the world begins to end, we shall have to summon Bruce Willis to save it – a prospect worse than Armageddon. Hence this post, which will save the world, if not from mutual assured destruction, then at least from Bruce Willis.

  653. You end your article saying The state is the enemy. We are the people. This truth is often forgotten by the people – and the likes of Stephen Fry – who get taught who to hate by media manipulation of the west’s enemies and lack of disclosure about its friends.

  654. Flaming June

    19 Aug, 2013 - 8:31 am

    If confirmation was needed that this is a fascist country, read on. It was referred to earlier by Ben Franklin.

    Glenn Greenwald’s partner detained at Heathrow airport for nine hours
    David Miranda, partner of Guardian interviewer of whistleblower Edward Snowden, questioned under Terrorism Act

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/18/glenn-greenwald-guardian-partner-detained-heathrow

    All his electronic equipment was confiscated for good measure. Mrs May’s goons are at this moment trawling through the hard drives.

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