We’re Not Dead Yet

by craig on July 15, 2013 11:08 am in Uncategorized

Many thanks for all the very kind messages.  I appear to be back on full  fighting form again and will resume blogging shortly.

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344 Comments

  1. Great news and have a swift recovery Craig!

  2. Great news!

  3. Great news! Relax and enjoy the sun!

  4. Much to the chagrin of the plutocrats, oligarchs, and the coattail hangers thereof, you have made it and comeback. Glad to hear you are OK. Wish you a full recovery and good health.

  5. Beeston Regis

    15 Jul, 2013 - 11:40 am

    Get well soon n all that!

  6. Glad you’re OK and thanks for letting us know.

  7. Excellent news Craig. You have been sorely missed.

    (btw in the replay of Murder in Samarkand on Radio 4 Extra, I was reminded that you had an injury to your calf muscle when you were in Tashkent. Hope that it never recurred.)

  8. Excellent – hope you recover quickly and this treatment really does fix whatever the problem was.

  9. Glad you are back, and I hope we have a discussion about the Anglo-American disposition matrix in all its ramifications.

  10. Uzbek in the UK

    15 Jul, 2013 - 12:40 pm

    Glad you are back Mr Murray. Take good care of yourself.

  11. Congrats!! I’m looking forward to it as I am sure are many others.

  12. Uzbek in the UK

    15 Jul, 2013 - 12:43 pm

    While you were away:

    It is reported that diplomatic immunity was removed from Gulnara Karimova by Uzbek Foreign Affairs Ministry. This is something that puzzled many as this would not have happen without authorisation from her father.

  13. Well done, Craig. You’ve passed the first test of survival – ie not dying. Don’t worry about the blog, I’ve found a backdoor in your system that allows me to delete posts as if by Jon.

  14. Thanks, Jemand. That explains it.

  15. Excellent news.

    Noli spurios te contundere!

  16. Oh good. I’d only just blundered in here and I was beginning to enjoy it in an indignant kind of way.

  17. Good to have you back in circulation again. Take time to recover fully.

  18. Uzbek:

    Her immunity comes with the job she’s just been removed from:

    http://www.eurasianet.org/node/67246

    I’d guess she was kicked out by / at the request of the UN, rather than her old man.

    Moral, perhaps – whoever else you rip off, don’t screw with Russians?

  19. Analysis of Karimova’s possible fall from grace:

    http://atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/CEN-01-170613.html

  20. [Mod/Jon: commentary about contributors wishing to censor the comments aren't helpful, please keep it constructive]

  21. Alhamdulillah.

  22. Quite poor censoring, Jon, as Jemand said it allows him to delete posts as if he were you – something he has apparently done – not that he was just wishing to do so.

  23. Trowbridge, in retrospect I probably didn’t need to remove your comment, but it’s worth noting that Cracker Jemand was joking :)

    Good to have you back, Craig.

  24. Glad to hear you are recovering well, Craig! :)

    Quick question: have you ever come across a state which runs a consulate at its own airport?

    That’s what Russia does at Sheremetevo airport in Moscow.

  25. Some actions are not to be joked about, like the names of the Asiana pilots involved in the crash at SFO.

  26. Don’t rush it… get better properly before you throw yourself back into your hectic life.

  27. A good day just got even better!

    Great to hear you’re on the way back to us Craig. I’ve missed your observations and can’t wait to see you posting again.

    But be sure to take it easy, let the healing take root and enjoy good company.

    No danger of us all falling silent in the meantime.

  28. What a stretch Trowbridge. If the pilots had been able to stretch even fractionally to yours, it would’ve been an ordinary smooth landing.
    ——
    Health is everything Craig. One takes it for granted until one becomes ill. But then in recovery a new inner intelligence of listening to one’s body can come into being. Stay well now.

    I’m starting my own new stage of a health-kick at 7am tomorrow. Famous last words.

  29. sorry to hear you havent been so well. You were certainly on good form at the Musselburgh meeting. Hope its one of many still to come.

  30. Uzbek in the UK

    15 Jul, 2013 - 3:51 pm

    I am afraid this could be more serious than ‘not screwing Russians’. Gulnara has many powerful opponents inside Uzbekistan but they were dormant until quite recently. It is rumoured that Gulnara and her father have different views on succession (of her father). She wants to be become next on his throne whereas he (quite rightfully) understands that her power comes with his presidency and on her own she will face many challenges and will ultimately fail to preserve balance of power in clan politics.

  31. Trowbridge, I’m sorry that I deleted your post, but I had to because it was too controversial. You do realise that all of ‘Jon’s’ posts explaining deletes, are mine, don’t you?

    Anyway, thanks Komodo for the links to news of Gulnara Karimova’s descent into political obscurity. Hopefully she will be able to avoid an unfortunate car accident before releasing her next album, tentatively titled “Rainbows and Cotton Fields”. One dollar from every million album sales will be donated to a worthy charity administered by Googoosha herself and deposited in a safe Swiss bank account to ensure compliance with financial regulations.

  32. Uzbek in the UK

    15 Jul, 2013 - 4:00 pm

    Jemand

    I do not think that assassination of Uzbek princess is on the table. Not at least until her father is on the throne, and least likely after that. It is unlikely that she will succeed him and it is very likely that she will emigrate (after her father is removed from Ok-Saroy legs forward) and live peacefully in one of her many multimillion mansions.

  33. I’m not the one stretching, Villager. Jemand said he was censoring what appears here – a most destructive claim for the site, if true.

    Asiana is taking the Fox TV station in Oakland to court for damaging it and its pilots – what is bound to reveal who gave the word to the NTSB intern in Washington to corroborate the vile rumor, and if it is his boss, its report will require only stretching.

  34. Oh, I see, Jemand, engaging in more of your so-called joking.

    Either you are gone, or I am!

  35. Jemand:

    I trust you can see what I just deleted here. Urgently, please. The NSA is getting impatient.

  36. Good God, what a weird site….

    Wait for the advertising to subside for a less publicised activity of the fragrant Gulnara:

    http://www.anorak.co.uk/340260/celebrities/gulnara-karimova-the-yoga-photos.html/

  37. Komodo, you are either serious, or you are joking. I’m assuming that you are somewhere in between – seriously joking or joking about being serious. Either way, the deletions you claimed to have made are, in actual fact of reality, very very real and this is no joking matter, as Trowbridge has correctly observed. Seriously! Forget the NSA, that’s just a front for something much much bigger. I’ll reveal more when it’s safe to do so. I’m assuming Craig uses an encrypted line and Norton Home Security.

    On this topic of being serious, inter alia Craig’s irregular attention-seeking on health matters that we have all agreed are too expensive for the NHS, I want to raise the subject of quantum field lensing of naturally occurring cosmic rays, used by the US military to disrupt telegram communications in India. Google it, it’s real.

  38. Re Gulnara’s yoga poses. Hmmm, yes. Now if she would just bend her knees to the floor, that would do the trick.

  39. Ahh, yes.. No sooner said than done.

    http://www.anorak.co.uk/340260/celebrities/gulnara-karimova-the-yoga-photos.html/?pid=76911#img

    I hope this comment survives my current round of deletions.

  40. “Not dead yet”…

    Welcome back Craig – woefully missed.

    ATOS and austerity.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGFXGwHsD_A

  41. lucythediclonius

    15 Jul, 2013 - 4:59 pm

    excellent will this get through the spam filter

  42. great news Craig is getting better and the Canaries have signed Leroy Fer, a Dutch under 21 champion, can’t be bad.

    The cat with no name is still in limbo, stuck here in Rockland departure lounge without a visa. I asked Putin, but he says he has just got a cat to cheer up Ms. Kabayeva’s children.
    Its not that I’m desperate, but I did mention that I did not want a cat and rather have lots of other stuff on my mind recently.

    Shall now join Cryptonym for a holiday, anybody feeling able to look after an animal, get in touch with Clark please, I’m off

  43. Flaming June

    15 Jul, 2013 - 5:36 pm

    Hope Google Translate got this correct for me Nevermind.

    ‘Frohe Festtage und sichere Fahrten’

    Sorry I can’t help with that poor unwanted cat. My dog does not like cats.

  44. @ Craig,
    Pleased to hear that you are bouncing back.
    I can but ask:-
    What is your take on the Martin case in the US and how, if at all, might one relate the US case to that of Stephen Lawrence in the UK?
    For my part I have thought for a long while about this case:-
    1. America is not what it ought to be – coming from genocide against the Native Americans.
    2. America is not what it should be – advancing on the backs of the free labour of the Africans.
    3. America might be what it could be – integrating the brightest and the best from around the world along a path of global justice.
    And , I now lament the result of this case.
    I am not a lawyer qualified in, nor called to the Bar in the US. I am British trained and twice over qualified to practice law under British jurisprudence. That is what I know and do.
    I am aware that the US shares and has inherited the British Common Law system of justice. I have worked with American lawyers on cases and been in US courts and interfaced with experts and US lawyers over decades. Again – I am not a US trained attorney.
    However, my simple questions are:-
    - Night watchman told by 911 dispatcher to leave the youngster?
    - Night watchman, in cross-examination by the prosecution, found to have fabricated a story and is caught multiple times in his lies?
    - Night watchman pursues the youngster and makes comments that are recorded which reveal his preconceived notions about the youngster being a criminal ?
    - Night watchman makes claims about the incident and circumstances and provides video taped recounting of the events to the police, then is found to be significantly inconsistent in relation to his overall statements.
    - Night watchman pursues and stalks and confronts the youngster.
    - There is an altercation, that never would have happened if the dispatcher’s instructions had been followed.
    - Night watchman has, under US law, limited powers, and had been properly instructed by the 911 dispatcher.
    - Night watchman shoots and kills the unarmed 17 year youngster – and night watchman is a 28 year old man with martial arts training and weighs over 200 pounds relative to a “threatening” 160 or so pound kid?

    Well – American justice? – NOT GUILTY?

    Over to you.

    CB

  45. I hope you’ll recover and reeturn to shining your light on the injustices in our world. Thanks!

  46. Flaming June

    15 Jul, 2013 - 8:17 pm

    This, written by a Canadian I assume, chimes with some of what you say Courtenay.

    The (Florida) Law, Sir, Is an Ass
    by Bill Annett / July 14th, 2013
    http://dissidentvoice.org/2013/07/the-florida-law-sir-is-an-ass/

  47. @ Flaming June,

    “ Flaming June” – what a novel and attractive pseudonym.
    “ Flaming June” rides with Wild Bill Hicock on the blog trail. Great thought.
    Ha….just kidding.
    Cheers!
    Read it – thanks for sharing.
    CB

  48. Glad to hear you’re back. I wish you a speedy recovery – it’s always more speedy when surrounded by loved ones – and look forward to your next full post.

  49. Thanks be. Been looking for news, and am so glad to see this. Rest and be well.

  50. Flaming June

    15 Jul, 2013 - 9:22 pm

  51. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    15 Jul, 2013 - 10:23 pm

    Craig, it’s good to hear that you’re improving/improved. Best wishes for a full and speedy recovery.

  52. “I appear to be back on full fighting form again”

    Excellent news, Craig.

    May the road rise up to meet you.
    May the wind be always at your back.
    May the sun shine warm upon your face,
    and rains fall soft upon your fields.

    And all that jazz …

    Take it easy

  53. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    15 Jul, 2013 - 10:30 pm

    Glad to hear you’re fit as a fiddle, Craig….Give us a preview.

    On the Zimmerman trial, I’m afraid the jury had to find NG because of prevailing self-defense laws in Florida. When the prosecution and LE investigators screw the pooch there is nothing, other than jury nullification, for the jury to do except follow the elements of ‘reasonable doubt’. It’s a tragedy.
    However, the jury system is one part of the legal morass that I find little fault with.

  54. From the link I sent to Courtenay.

    ‘And yet the nonsense of George Zimmerman’s deliverance — like some junior grade St. John XXIII — goes much further. It’s the triumph of man-made law over god-given Justice.

    “Not guilty,” pronounced the six white (one possibly hispanic) female jurors, two of whom were married to lawyers and a third was the mother of a lawyer. (We might have guessed.) They might just as logically have declared George Zimmerman the best-dressed dude in the courtroom.’

    And Zimmerman’s Dad is a retired judge.

    This is a new piece about the case by Randy Shields on DV. http://dissidentvoice.org/2013/07/a-perfect-symmetry/

  55. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    15 Jul, 2013 - 10:50 pm

    The jury selection process and voir dire are quite fair as both parties can exclude jurors with a profile which may hinder their side. I don’t know about 6 jurors. It’s supposed to be a unanimous 12. That part bothers me, but the prosecution has many more tools and unlimited funds for their cause. It could be one of many mistakes the public prosecutor made.

  56. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    15 Jul, 2013 - 11:05 pm

    Some details on the jurors. Haven’t found why only 6. Probably austerity demands as many courts are going to digital recording of the trial to save money over court reporting.

    http://tamaratattles.com/2013/07/05/juror-descriptions-bios-voir-dire-statements-from-george-zimmerman-trial/

  57. I do not know the US law but thought the number was strange.
    Would the alternate jurors have been there to replace any of the main jurors going off sick or for some other reason?

    ‘The prosecuting and defense attorneys referred to the jury members as five white women and one black or Hispanic woman. CNN does not have access to the juror questionnaires and cannot confirm the ethnicities of the jurors.

    Four alternate jurors — two women and two men — will hear the case as well. Nelson asked Zimmerman if he agreed with the jurors selected to serve on the panel, and he said he did.’

    All-female jury to try Zimmerman
    http://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/20/justice/florida-zimmerman-trial

    Off now to attempt some sleep on a hot and humid night. Quite unusual in the UK these days!

  58. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    15 Jul, 2013 - 11:12 pm

    One selected juror was dismissed for unknown reasons, and yes they had alternates.

    This is the reason for 6….only in Florida.

    Williams v. Florida, a Supreme Court ruling in 1970, it was decided that at least six persons is “large enough to promote group deliberation, free from outside intimidation, and to provide a fair possibility for obtaining a cross-section of the community.”

  59. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    15 Jul, 2013 - 11:41 pm

    The light of day has always been an antiseptic. Why would anyone argue it isn’t good to air our Security State laundry? Go Edward….geevum.

    http://www.uscourts.gov/uscourts/courts/fisc/105b-g-07-01-rbw-signed-order-130715.pdf

  60. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    15 Jul, 2013 - 11:45 pm

  61. Many welcomes back, Craig! That was a brief sojourn indeed. (The longer your absence between posts, the more likely that dry rot sets into your blog, courtesy of the incessant Flaming Nora and her caustic adversaries. Back in the nick of time :-)

    You’ve often exposed examples of clandestine international bullying by hegemonic states, wrt Uzbekistan, Gitmo and Wikileaks. But now that the Snowden affair has completely pulled the pants off the intentions of the US administration, we can see that Obama has a stonking world-domination boner. It’s no longer a case of whether people recognise it, but whether they can smack the bloody thing back to flaccidity. I reckon Putin is playing a canny game by ignoring it. I’d be interested to hear your thoughts.

  62. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    15 Jul, 2013 - 11:54 pm

    Yes, Craig, you have been rather quiet about the SnowWald affair. Is this the first time you’ve heard this?

  63. A source has explained to me the close links between Israeli and Saudi intelligence. President of the Council of National Security Bandar bin Sultan is known to hold regular meetings with Israeli security chiefs in Riyadh, Tel Aviv, Arab and European capitals.

    Prince Bandar has a fat wallet with around $180,000 paid to British SAS trained mercenaries for terrorist training activities in Lebanon and Syria. (operating out of Dubai)

    The Bandar account was useful we remember for payments between January 2000 and the September 2001 to Saudi intelligence operatives al-Bayoumi and Basnan, handlers for September 11th 2001 hi-jackers Nawaf Alhazmi and Khalid Almihdar.

    http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2012/3929war_thrt_grows.html

  64. “Lord Advocate Frank Mulholland instructed Police witch-hunt against media leaks.”

    http://scottishlaw.blogspot.de/2013/07/lord-advocate-crown-office-target.html

    “Department of Justice memo codifies spying on the press”

    http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/07/15/memo-j15.html

    “Under conditions of deepening social inequality and with social tensions rising, Britain’s ruling elite are trampling on fundamental democratic rights like their counterparts in the United States and across Europe.”

    http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/07/15/jsa-j15.html

    “Like serfs in the dark ages, American citizens can be picked up on the authority of some unknown person in the executive branch and thrown in a dungeon, subject to torture, without any evidence ever being presented to a court or any information to the person’s relatives of his/her whereabouts.”

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2013/07/13/coup-detat-paul-craig-roberts/

  65. National Sheriff’s Association Releases Statement on Florida Neighborhood Watch Tragedy

    NSA has no information indicating the community has ever even registered with the program.

    http://www.lawofficer.com/article/news/national-sheriff-s-association-0

    “The Neighborhood Watch Program fosters collaboration and cooperation with the community and local law enforcement by encouraging citizens to be aware of what is going on in their communities and contact law enforcement if they suspect something – NOT take the law in their own hands,” continued Executive Director Kennard. “The alleged participant ignored everything the Neighborhood Watch Program stands for and it resulted in a young man losing his life. Our thoughts and prayers are with the family of Trayvon Martin during this terrible time.”

  66. The world is doing a decent job keeping the pressure on in Craig’s absence, preparing for the US government’s imminent disgrace in the most public forum in the world. The HRC’s preeminent independent legal experts are going to carve the US regime up like a turkey, in calm and dulcet tones, and everybody in the world can watch the video stream. The US government will go all out to keep the subject population unaware but the outside world will be watching very closely.

    Mobilizing shame. It dismantled the Warsaw Pact, and it will dismantle the NATO bloc.

  67. Great news, such a relief to hear that you are back in good health Craig.

  68. @ Flaming June and Ben Franklin,
    One said:-
    “One selected juror was dismissed for unknown reasons, and yes they had alternates.
    This is the reason for 6….only in Florida.
    Williams v. Florida, a Supreme Court ruling in 1970, it was decided that at least six persons is “large enough to promote group deliberation, free from outside intimidation, and to provide a fair possibility for obtaining a cross-section of the community.”
    Interestingly the historical jury base from England was 12. The larger the jury pool, the better the chance for a just verdict, was the original formulation.
    The lesser and halved in Martin’s case seems to have been manipulated for a conviction. We might contrast the verdict with the one below:-
    http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/florida-mom-marissa-alexander-serve-20-years-firing-warning-shot-while-george-zimmermant
    What a fucked up and unjust world we live in.
    CB

  69. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SUJtMlEwd6Q#at=872

    Hey Craig, your book Murder in Samarkand got a mention on RT by Richard Stallman, about the case phone listening hacking.

  70. willyrobinson

    16 Jul, 2013 - 7:00 am

    Speedy recovery – w

  71. Great news.

  72. Flaming June

    16 Jul, 2013 - 7:33 am

    See the provenance of P Charles’ private secretary who appeared before Mrs Hodge’s committee yesterday attempting to justify the fact that no capital gains or corporation taxes are paid by the ‘Duchy’ which is a £847m enterprise.

    Note his previous in the National Security Secretariat in the Cabinet Office. What is that Orwellian sounding office?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Nye_(courtier)

    ‘Top Charles aide William Nye defends Prince’s tax-exempt status
    William Nye claims Duchy of Cornwall’s £847m property empire is a ‘force for social good’

    The most senior aide to the Prince of Wales denied on Monday that the landed estate which pays the heir to the throne £19m a year is a “medieval anomaly” and insisted its tax-exempt status was not “unfair”.

    William Nye, the private secretary to Charles, told the House of Commons Public Accounts Committee that the Duchy of Cornwall, which presides over a £847m property empire, was a force for social good and could not be compared to a conventional corporation or commercial entity.

    The scrutiny of the Prince’s tax status, under which he voluntarily pays income tax on the Duchy’s annual surplus but the estate itself is exempt from capital gains and corporation taxes, follows stinging criticism by the same committee of tax avoidance by companies such as Amazon, Google and Starbucks.

    In a rare clash between the legislature and the Crown, Mr Nye was repeatedly asked to justify the status of the Duchy, established in the 14th century by Edward III to provide an income to the heir to the throne, as a “private estate”, despite being immersed in complex investments and property deals.

    The Independent revealed last month that among the Duchy’s recent and confidential investments on behalf of the famously aesthetic Prince Charles is a sprawling £38m supermarket distribution hub used by Waitrose in Milton Keynes.

    Research by Channel 4’s Dispatches programme shows that his mother, through the Crown Estate which holds land on behalf of the monarch, also owns an adjoining warehouse on the same industrial estate used as a distribution centre by John Lewis…..

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/top-charles-aide-william-nye-defends-princes-taxexempt-status-8710049.html

    We are not ‘all in in together’. We are the idiot serfs still doffing our forelocks.

    The council and advisory committees of the ‘Duchy’ consist mostly of the great and the good, landed gentry, bankers including Lord Rothschild, farmers and lawyers amongst others.

    http://www.duchyofcornwall.org/managementandfinances_structure_princescouncil.htm

  73. Good to see you up and about again…

  74. @ Nevermind:

    Its not that I’m desperate, but I did mention that I did not want a cat…

    I’m sorry to have to tell you this but your wishes are irrelevant. The cat is satisfied with its treatment and has graciously condescended to join you. You are now a cat- “owner”. Note the quotes.

    Now break out the quail-and-avocado Whiskas, bitch.

  75. Flaming June

    16 Jul, 2013 - 8:37 am

    Remember Obama posing in a slave prison and at Robben Island?

    He should go down to Louisiana to the State Penitentiary which is called Angola Prison and inform himself of what is happening there under his watch.

    Two men have been locked up in solitary confinement for 36 years for crimes they did not commit. They are now confined in a maximum security dormitory. One of them Herman Wallace is 71 and has cancer.

    http://politicalprisonerradio.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/louisianas-continued-torture-of-71-yr.html

    http://www.angola3.org/thecase.aspx

    And we won’t mention Guantanamo.

  76. Flaming June

    16 Jul, 2013 - 8:52 am

    Yes Komodo when you visit and get into conversation with the locals, you know that his name and that of the ‘duchy’ are dirty words. There is a feudal set up there with one of his bods installed in a fine house on St Mary’s.

    Totally feudal. See Bona Vacantia http://www.duchyofcornwall.eu/latest/

    and they bunged back a load of pdfs in answer to this FOI request.
    https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/minutes_and_correspondence_betwe_5

    Droit du seigneur does not seem to be applicable AFAIK!

  77. From a quick tour of the web, I’m getting the impression that Nye did a pisspoor job in front of the PAC – he’s on very shaky ground in continuing to maintain the Duchy is simply a private estate. He’s trying to dodge the right hander – if it’s not an estate, it’s a corporation and should pay tax – but the left hook is yet to come – if it is a private estate, why the fuck isn’t it subject to English law? And how come Charlie can veto Parliament?

  78. “From a quick tour of the web, I’m getting the impression that Nye did a pisspoor job in front of the PAC – he’s on very shaky ground in continuing to maintain the Duchy is simply a private estate. He’s trying to dodge the right hander – if it’s not an estate, it’s a corporation and should pay tax – but the left hook is yet to come – if it is a private estate, why the fuck isn’t it subject to English law? And how come Charlie can veto Parliament?”

    Don’t you know?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornish_nationalism

    It’s called Nationalism.

  79. Flaming June

    16 Jul, 2013 - 9:28 am

    Saw this in the Guardian.

    David Kelly 10 years on
    Share 9

    The Guardian, Monday 15 July 2013 21.00 BST

    Tomorrow it will be 10 years since the suspicious death of the biological weapons scientist, Dr David Kelly. His death is a matter of continuing public and professional concern.

    Ten years after the Hillsborough disaster, the truth was still deeply concealed. Only recently, with the publication of the independent panel report, has the extent of the cover-up become recognised.

    Ten years after Dr Kelly’s death the truth is similarly concealed. As doctors, we have multiple serious concerns about the medical, forensic and other evidence supporting the official story that Dr Kelly committed suicide. We believe that there are serious deficiencies in the investigation of Dr Kelly’s death by Thames Valley police.

    In the interests of justice, both an inquest into Dr Kelly’s death and an Independent Police Complaints Commission investigation into what we consider to be a deficient and dishonest investigation by Thames Valley Police are required.

    Dr Andrew Watt, Dr Stephen Frost, Dr David Halpin, Dr Christopher Burns-Cox

  80. Fred, old son….granted the nationalists would like Cornwall to be independent, and given they’re under a feudal regime at the moment, they’ve got a case (Fred: -No they haven’t. They’re horrible antiEgnerland racists and should be put up against a beached whale and shot) given all that too, there’s a major anomaly here which affects the UK’s constitutional integrity. If it is to remain part of England , it should be subject to English law, or formally, as in the Isle of Man, conceded its own law, on a democratic rather than feudal basis. Even you should be able to see that having what is in effect a Norman hereditary despot running part of the UK on his own behalf isn’t quite the ideal for which our forefathers bled and died?

    Angarrack, linked by FJ above, is evidently a nationalist (yeah, yeah, Fred. You said that already. Probably an alcoholic too) but this point is valid from whatever POV you adopt, except, obviously, the Duke of Cornwall’s:

    In the Bruton v Duchy case, the judge dismissed out of hand representations made by the duchy to the effect that it was a private estate, even going so far as to say that duchy officers were “confused and unclear”. Having examined the circumstances of the duchy for a mere six weeks, even he could see that this patently false stance was untenable.[xvii]

    However, In spite of the court ruling that the duchy is an emanation of the state, the duchy and HM Government are both still insisting upon it being a ‘private estate’[xviii]. We cannot leave unchallenged a situation where the existence of a powerful constitutional component of the British Isles is strenuously denied in public but vigorously asserted in private.

  81. Flaming June

    16 Jul, 2013 - 9:40 am

    It goes without saying that the ‘bean bag rounds’ being used by the LA Police that I reported about earlier have been used by the IDF in the ‘West Bank’.

    A report from 2011

    Tear Gas In Oakland Connects The 99 Percent To The West Bank’s Struggle For Freedomhttp://thinkprogress.org/special/2011/10/28/355372/tear-gas-oakland-west-bank-struggle/?mobile=nc

    The manufacturers are Defense Technology of Casper, Wyoming.
    http://www.defense-technology.com/specialty_impact.aspx
    ‘We Are Your Force Option’. HQ Jacksonville, Florida. Quite so.

  82. Flaming June

    16 Jul, 2013 - 9:42 am

    Totally agree with Komodo on Cornwall etc. Off for a swim.

  83. Dr David Kelly – Thanks Mary – a comment took my attention:

    Dark actors are still at large and committing horrendous crimes whether it is against the Iranians, Syrians, Egyptians or other nations. Apart from their fatal and devastating part in the biological weapons they very willingly provided to Saddam to use against the young Iranian soldiers and a large community of Iraqi Kurds (Halabja), they are still committing devastating crimes against the whole population of Iran by starving them on daily basis with their criminal and inhumane sanctions using the pretext and convenient lies about Iran’s non-existent nuclear weapon program.

    David Kelly R.I.P.

  84. Sorry to have to break my silence already.

    Last night a prominent Norfolk anti incinerator campaigner had some problems with the police and some heavies, not all has come out yet. He had a heart attack after being beaten up and had his phone swiped and computer confiscated.

    If its of any interest I shall keep you informed.

    Now break out the quail-and-avocado Whiskas, bitch, Komodo wants you for breakfast, once you had yours.

  85. Look forward to Criag’s return.

    I am not sure if anybody has caught any recent statements from President Karimov. They are quite delusional. I think there will be quite a power struggle when he goes. It is certainly true that greed has caught up with Gulnara and her options are narrowing faster than her pop career is crashing.

  86. Nothing in your paper Nevermind except this about a cover up.

    Revised plan drawn up for Norfolk incinerator
    http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/politics/revised_plan_drawn_up_for_norfolk_incinerator_1_2279761

    What does Ms Chloe Smith have to say about it? Just imagine that Craig was the MP.

    I see that the usual gangsters-in-charge have their hands on Cory which was originally a coal and waste carrying company working on the Thames.

    In 1972 Ocean Group plc bought Cory.[33] In 1979 Cory bought Thames and General Lighterage, making Cory the largest waste carrier on the Thames.[33] In the 1980s Cory withdrew from coal and oil distribution to concentrate on waste transport and disposal.[47] In 1981 two Cory group companies were merged to form Cory Waste Management.[47] Cory Environmental Municipal Services Ltd was formed in 1989 and the two companies were merged as Cory Environmental in 1990.[47] In 1997 Cory Environmental grew by buying Local Authority Waste Disposal Companies from Essex County Council and Gloucestershire County Council. In 1999 Cory bought Parkhill Reclamation, increasing Cory’s presence in the West Midlands and North West England.[47]

    In 2000 Ocean Group plc merged with NFC plc to form Exel plc, which in 2005 sold Cory to Montagu Private Equity.[48] In March 2007 Montagu sold Cory to a consortium of investors consisting of ABN Amro Global Infrastructure Fund, Finpro SGPS and Santander Private Equity.[48]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cory_Environmental

    Cory Environmental http://www.coryenvironmental.co.uk/page/Seniormanagementteam.htm

  87. Flaming June

    16 Jul, 2013 - 1:00 pm

  88. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    16 Jul, 2013 - 1:11 pm

    “Second question. Has she walked him down the aisle yet?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2245827/Minister-Chloe-Smith-proposes-boyfriend-Sandy-McFadzean-whirlwind-4-month-romance.html
    ___________

    How trivial. Surely this is an item for “Hello” magazine and not this blog?

  89. Flaming June

    16 Jul, 2013 - 1:38 pm

    Perhaps it is not known by some here that Ms Smith was the successful candidate in a by election in which Craig also stood. We like to keep up with news about her such as her disastrous showing on a Newsnight programme and her previous employers Deloittes. The latter receive large amounts of remuneration from the ConDems. They are also Tory donors.

    eg
    City firm Deloitte picks up Government contracts worth nearly £7m after bankrolling the Tories

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/city-firm-deloitte-picks-up-89118

    and that was two years ago. Probably a lot more is now going into their coffers with the NHS privatisation etc.

  90. That’s unionism for you (Fred)

    ok, it’s not funny, but couldn’t resist.

  91. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    16 Jul, 2013 - 2:39 pm

    @ Flaming June re. Chloe Smith :

    “We like to keep up with news about her such as her disastrous showing on a Newsnight programme and her previous employers Deloittes.”
    ______________

    Perhaps so, but your squib about her getting married is just tittle-tattle, isn’t it, and of no conceivable relevance to her as a politician.

    It’s the sort of “comment” which – multiplied by the dozen – cheapens this blog and is likely to have the normal reader scratching his or her head.

  92. “Fred, old son….granted the nationalists would like Cornwall to be independent, and given they’re under a feudal regime at the moment, they’ve got a case ”

    It pleases the Cornish nationalists to pretend that the County of Cornwall and the Duchy are one and the same and that this should grant Cornwall some special status but in the meantime places them under the well polished jackboot of the Heir to the Throne.

    The truth is that the Duchy actually owns very little of Cornwall and most of it’s properties are outside the county.

    http://www.duchyofcornwall.org/aroundtheduchy.htm

  93. The case of Michael Bruton -v- Information Commissioner and the Duchy of Cornwall and the Attorney General to HRH the Prince of Wales is also relevant to the Duchy’s claim to be providing a social benefit (see earlier posts).

    Bruton sought information under the Environmental Information Regulations,2004, regarding his concerns for a marine conservation area: “First, to ascertain whether
    consents or permissions had been given to the Fishery in the SAC. Second, to ascertain whether an environmental assessment had taken place before consents or permissions were given so as to ensure that there would be no detrimental environmental effects on the SAC. Mr Bruton feared that the Fishery was cultivating and harvesting predominantly non-native Pacific oysters of both the fertile diploid and triploid variety and he was concerned that it might have already introduced stocks to the SAC. Mr Bruton also believes that the oyster fishery involves dredging activities which may harm the site’s nature conservation objectives.”

    The oyster farm was operated by a tenant of Charles’s. The request (to the Duchy of Cornwall) was refused. On spurious grounds, as it turns out. Even HRH’s own personal Attorney-General, Jonathan Crow QC couldn’t make the Duchy’s case stand up.

    Crow – legal heavyweight -:
    http://www.4stonebuildings.com/barristers/jonathan-crow-qc.asp

    The tribunal’s judgement:

    http://www.informationtribunal.gov.uk/DBFiles/Decision/i600/20111206%20Decision%20&%20Ruling%20EA20100182.pdf

  94. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    16 Jul, 2013 - 3:12 pm

    I should place these recent posts about the Duchy of Cornwall under the rubric of the anti-Monarchy tendency which I think it’s fair to say is one of the articles of faith for most of the people who comment on this blog.

    I would however assume that most of those commenters would agreed on the need for some Head of State or other. If this is so, I’d be interested to hear their thoughts on how the Head of State should be chosen in the UK : should it be by direct universal suffrage (case of, eg, Vth republic France, USA) or should it be by Parliament (case of IIIrd and IVth republic France,Greece, Italy, etc)?

  95. Good news Craig, I wish you a swift recovery!

  96. Habby raises an interesting point.

    Should we choose our head of state by birth, as Habby prefers, or by vote?

    Anyway, whilst you’re all dwelling on that, let’s not forget that the issue Habby wants to divert attention from is actually Charlie boy’s very interesting tax arrangements.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/dan-jones-time-to-overhaul-prince-charless-feudal-tax-affairs-8710671.html

  97. Flaming June

    16 Jul, 2013 - 3:39 pm

    Gross hypocrisy there about ‘cheapening this blog’ @ 2.39pm. Pots and kettles
    spring to mind.

    ~~~

    Here pots of money spring to mind. While many of the British citizenry are in dire straits and even penury, Goldman Sachs made profits of £1.86nbn in just three months and they are not alone.

    Goldman Sachs doubles profits to $1.86 billion – beating Wall Street estimates
    Goldman’s net income rose from $927 million to $1.86 billion, year-on-year

    ‘Goldman’s results echoed similar trends in the investment banking units of JPMorgan Chase & Co and Citigroup Inc, whose fixed-income trading businesses also benefited from increased client activity early in the quarter.’

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/goldman-sachs-doubles-profits-to-186-billion–beating-wall-street-estimates-8711189.html

  98. Flaming June

    16 Jul, 2013 - 3:42 pm

    That was 1.86 billion dollar bills not 1.86 billion £1 coins. Can you picture the stacks?

  99. The PoW owns Cornwall in the same sense as HM owns most of the rest, Kempe.

    …the whole of Cornwall is a territorial possession not of the Queen in right of her Crown, [the government of the UK], but of the Duke in right of his Duchy [the desperately denied and hidden de jure instrument of Cornish governance]. The legal process is called bona vacantia [vacant goods] and it ensures that land reverts back to its presumptive, ultimate and absolute sovereign owner. The legal mechanisms are enshrined in the Administration of Estates Act 1925 [as amended] and the Companies Act 1985 [as amended]. Two Acts of Parliament that, we are told, are operated by the UK Government through its Treasury Solicitors legal department. However, regards bona vacantia, UK Treasury Solicitors has no jurisdiction in Cornwall.

    http://www.duchyofcornwall.eu/latest/?page_id=130

    (commentary)

    Both the Duchy of Cornwall and the Duchy of Lancaster—since 1399 held by the monarch in a personal capacity—have special legal rights not available to other landed estates: for example, the rules on bona vacantia, the right to ownerless property, operate in favour of the holders of the duchies rather than the Crown, such that the property of anyone who dies in the county of Cornwall without a will or identifiable heirs, and assets belonging to dissolved companies whose registered office was in Cornwall, pass to the duchy.[14][15] In 2007, £130,000 was realised from the right of bona vacantia. The duke owns freehold about three-fifths of the Cornish foreshore and the ‘fundus’, or bed, of navigable rivers and has right of wreck on all ships wrecked on Cornish shores, including those afloat offshore, and also to “Royal fish”, i.e. whales, porpoises, and sturgeon.[16] The Duchy of Cornwall is the Harbour Authority for St Mary’s Harbour.
    {Wiki}

    I’m not arguing for the Free Kernow lot. I’m arguing for constitutional consistency. And the argument goes well beyond Cornwall.

    Writing in the Guardian, lawyer David Gollancz commented that: “The duchy exercises a unique range of legal powers, which elsewhere are reserved for the crown…. It seems anomalous, and worrying, that such a huge estate, created and conferred by law and exercising significant legal powers, should be able to escape public scrutiny by calling itself a private estate.”[21] The requirement for the Prince of Wales to give consent to draft bills that could affect the interests of the Duchy of Cornwall is not a new power granted to Prince Charles, but a centuries-old parliamentary practice that involved the same requirement for consent being conferred on previous Dukes of Cornwall
    (Wiki)

    That’s not just parts of Cornwall, please note. Half of the Duchy’s 209 sq. miles of investment land is in Devon, and there’s more elsewhere. He pays bugger-all corporation tax on it, while paying personal tax, admittedly at the highest rate, on whatever he chooses to declare, in the strictest possible secrecy, to a trustworthy ear at HMRC. Bear in mind that his living expenses are tax-deductible against his job, which is being the Prince of Wales. For instance.

    He was in Bude for three hours yesterday. Hope you didn’t forget the Union Jack.

  100. Glad you’re feeling better, Craig. Here’s Chumbawanba to join me in welcoming you back:

    “We’ll be singing
    When we’re winning
    We’ll be singing

    I get knocked down
    But I get up again
    You’re never going to keep me down

    Pissing the night away
    Pissing the night away

    He drinks a whiskey drink
    He drinks a vodka drink
    He drinks a lager drink
    He drinks a cider drink”

  101. Anyway, whilst Habby exeunts backwards, bowing and scraping for gaudy trinkets, it’s probably worth revisiting Heathcote Williams’ celebration of our most glorious Faerie Queen:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIukrdRhnpw

  102. Herbie 16 Jul, 2013 – 3:38 pm

    “Should we choose our head of state by birth, as Habby prefers, or by vote?”

    Neither. By lottery. Seriously.

  103. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    16 Jul, 2013 - 3:55 pm

    “direct universal suffrage” (USA) – not quite accurate on reflection because there is the Electoral College. But a good enough example of a system other than election by a Parliament (Congress for the USA)

  104. Flaming June

    16 Jul, 2013 - 3:58 pm

    Hague and cohort fielding questions from the Foreign Affairs Committee.

    On now http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=13628

    Developments in UK foreign policy
    Witnesses
    i. Rt Hon William Hague MP, First Secretary of State and Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Sir Simon Fraser KCMG, Permanent Under-Secretary, and David Quarrey, Director, Middle East and North Africa, Foreign and Commonwealth Office

  105. Monarchy generally- I’ll bite, for a change. It’s a valid question and relevant. No objection, provided it’s constitutionally ringwalled from having any influence whatever on
    a democratic government (we need one of those too). Provided also that it doesn’t need vast estates and money beyond anyone else’s wildest dreams to perform its perfectly useful function. Provided it isn’t Tony Blair, and provided it isn’t the topic of incessant front page coverage when one of its relatives is in pup….it can be hereditary if it likes, and good luck to it. Otherwise make it a Lottery prize or choose it annually from the Mail Online’s sidebar of lovely ladies.

  106. Flaming June

    16 Jul, 2013 - 4:01 pm

    Not many members of the committee there. Have they already jetted off for the hols?

    Membership Foreign Affairs Committee

    Richard Ottaway MP (Chair) Conservative
    Mr John Baron MP Conservative
    Rt Hon Sir Menzies Campbell QC MP Liberal Democrats
    Rt Hon Ann Clwyd MP Labour
    Mike Gapes MP Labour
    Mark Hendrick MP Labour
    Sandra Osborne Labour
    Andrew Rosindell MP Conservative
    Mr Frank Roy MP Labour
    Rt Hon Sir John Stanley MP Conservative
    Rory Stewart MP Conservative

  107. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    16 Jul, 2013 - 4:02 pm

    @ Herbie

    So what would your preference be?

    Or perhaps you could envisage yet another method (eg A_Node’s lottery idea)?

    I ask because I’m sure you’ve carried your thought a little further than the simple “get rid of the Monarchy”. Haven’t you?

    ________________

  108. A.Node got in before me. Yes.

  109. Flaming June

    16 Jul, 2013 - 4:05 pm

    Stop P Charles’ meddling for a start.

    Prince Charles’s letters to ministers to remain private, court rules
    Judges reject Guardian attempt to force publication of ‘black spider memos’ that would reveal efforts to influence government
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk-news/2013/jul/09/prince-charles-letters-mps-private-court

    Last week, the Rt Hon Jeremy Hunt had an audience of P Charles. What was that about? Not a social chat.

  110. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    16 Jul, 2013 - 4:07 pm

    @ Herbie

    “Anyway, whilst Habby exeunts backwards,….”

    ___________

    I think you’ll find that “exeunt” is a third person plural, whereas “Habbabkuk” is third person singular.

    But please don’t let me “distract” you from giving us your thoughts on how a President of the UK should be elected. Off you go!

  111. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    16 Jul, 2013 - 4:24 pm

    @ Flaming June

    I’ve noticed that you frequently post about the Royal Family (a couple of times just today, for example) and usually in a not too friendly way, so I assume that you would be for a republic to replace the monarchy.

    Would you therefore not wish to contribute to the debate and to the question “how should a President be elected or chosen”?

    It would seem to be a reasoable and relevant question for a republican to think about, would it not?

  112. You’re plural, Habby.

    Anyway.

    Best to have system closer to that of the US, with funding for political parties and no private lobbying, bribing nor any of the rest of the nonsense currently in vogue.

    I’d aim too for the head of state to be chosen from outside the ranks of the political parties.

  113. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    16 Jul, 2013 - 4:32 pm

    @ Flaming June:

    “Gross hypocrisy there about ‘cheapening this blog’ @ 2.39pm. Pots and kettles spring to mind”
    ___________

    Must call you out on that, I’m afraid – right of reply and all that.

    YOU have frequently posted on tittle-tattle like people’s husbands or wives. An egregious recent example was your comment about what Voctoria Beckham was wearing at Wimbledon (“some sort of lingerie” or something similar was your insight, if I remember correctly).

    I challenge YOU to find ONE single post from ME containing similar irrelevant tittle-tattle.

    If you can find one, you can talk about pots and kettles.

  114. Komodo, you’re quoting from exactly the kind of nationalist website I was talking about.

    Cornwall is not a feudal state, it’s an English county with the same sort of local democracy as any other English county and which is represented by six MPs at Westminster.

    Incidentally Cornish nationalist contested all six seats at the last election and all six lost their deposits. Three came last, that is pulled fewer votes than the Monster Raving Loony Party and all the other joke candidates. There is little real support for Cornish independence because most people there realise that unlike Scotland Cornwall simply doesn’t have any resources to support it.

  115. Oh by the way, I do agree that the Duchy should be paying it’s fair share of taxes.

  116. Flaming June

    16 Jul, 2013 - 4:40 pm

    Too trivial to reply to @ 4.32pm and anyway I am off out to a thé dansant once I have changed into my frock and put on my dancing pumps. It’s all one big merry round.

  117. Habby

    It’s difficult to argue that comment on slebs is irrelevant to political debate in this country, since they and their doings are so central to much of public discourse.

    They are very much the public face of wealth, and whilst often they act as distractions from more politically attuned wealth, they’re certainly a manifestation of what our culture and system has become.

  118. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    16 Jul, 2013 - 4:48 pm

    @ Herbie :

    “Best to have system closer to that of the US, with funding for political parties and no private lobbying, bribing nor any of the rest of the nonsense currently in vogue.

    I’d aim too for the head of state to be chosen from outside the ranks of the political parties.
    __________

    Thank you for that.

    I’m sure it’s entirely my fault, but I’m having a little difficulty following you completely.

    In the first para you say a system “closer” to that of the US. Which other differences would you envisage other than the money aspect you go on to mention? Would you, for instance, retain the two essential features of the US system (direct universal suffrage and the Electoral College) as are?

    You mention “funding” for political parties, which implies that Presidential candidates would be chosen by parties : is that correct?

    If so, how would you reconcile that with your further idea that the Head of State should be chosen from outside the ranks of politicians? Would that be a realistic idea?

    And a last thought : would it not be anti-democratic and discrimnatory to lay down that a serving or former politician should not be a candidate?

    ~~~~~~~~~~

    I think this discussion has already revealed that it’s quite simple to say “get rid of the Monarchy” but slightly less simple to propose legal, realistic and practical alternatives. But perhaps Flaming June will come up with something none of us has thought of., this is why I should very much like her to join in.

  119. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    16 Jul, 2013 - 4:56 pm

    [Mod/Jon: excessive commentary about Flaming June's contributions - this question is a direct repeat anyway]

  120. Graham Derrick

    16 Jul, 2013 - 4:58 pm

    Dear Craig, good to know you’re on the mend. In your next blog please include as many details as you like as to the standard of the NHS treatment you have received. A useful way to build up an impression of the care provided is from many anecdotal accounts.
    Best, Graham Derrick

  121. Habby

    To answer your last point first. You say;

    “it’s quite simple to say “get rid of the Monarchy” but slightly less simple to propose legal, realistic and practical alternatives.”

    seemingly unaware that many many countries have managed to do precisely that!!

    leaving the reasonable suspicion that your curious complacency in this matter is borne of some personal or otherise beneficial interest in the status quo, and indeed negating your subsequent detailed questions on procedure.

  122. Habby

    It’d be remiss of me not to correct your schoolboy howler.

    You suggest that it would be:

    “anti-democratic and discrimnatory to lay down that a serving or former politician should not be a candidate”

    yet the principle separating executive from legislature is fundamental to most systems of government, including our own, until the current botched system emanating from what your antecedents called The Glorious Revolution.

    Make no mistake. Ours is a cobbled together nonsense which even old Tories like Quentin Hogg argued was an elective dictatorship. This is because in our system the executive and legislature are much more often than not, one and the same. With the Party system and whipping, it has just become worse and worse.

  123. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    16 Jul, 2013 - 5:37 pm

    @ Herbie

    “..seemingly unaware that many many countries have managed to do precisely that!!”
    __________

    No, I think you’ve misunderstood; I’m perfectly aware that other countries have worked out arrangements and have indeed pointed out what seem to be the two major options – direct election or election by Parliamentarians. I was asking you (and others) which of the above two options (or any other option) they’d advocate.

    “..leaving the reasonable suspicion that your curious complacency in this matter is borne of some personal or otherise beneficial interest in the status quo..”

    You’ll remember that Craig once asked contributors to stick to the subject matter and not speculate on the contributor’s motives (which, he said, they could anyway not know). So it would be more conducive to rational discussion here if you were not to voice your ‘suspicions’ and certainly not to use them as a pretext for avoiding legitimate questions as you appear to wish to do.

    (You’ll find my questions at 16h48, above.)

    Thank you.

  124. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    16 Jul, 2013 - 5:47 pm

    @ Herbie

    “You suggest that it would be:

    “anti-democratic and discrimnatory to lay down that a serving or former politician should not be a candidate”

    yet the principle separating executive from legislature is fundamental to most systems of government,…”
    __________

    I’m not quite sure where the schoolboy howler is, Herbie.

    It happens to be the case that in most republics the President is a former politician (a legislator, if you will) and I’m sure you wouldn’t wish to accuse all those countries of blurring the line between the executive and the legislative, would you?

    The point you also seem to have overlooked is that the party politician ceases, constitutionally, to be a party politician the moment he or she becomes President.

    So, having cleared that up, do you feel like answering the couple of clarifications I asked for at 16h48?

    Thank you.

    PS – other anti-Monarchists (or indeed Monarchists), feel free to join in!

  125. Habby

    If the current system is a cobbled together nonsense, which it is, then why would anyone with an interest in the matter not wish to change it?

    Further, why would anyone wish to retain it?

    Eh?

    That’s the first step, Habby. The desire for change.

    As I’ve shown above, there is no argument that it’s impossible to change, however much you may wish to pretend that’s the case with the old bogging down in detail trick.

    Since there’s no argument that it’s impossible to change our current system, for the moment we need only line up along Change or No Change.

    It really is as simple as that.

  126. Planet of the Arabs: A montage of Hollywood’s relentless vilification of Arabs and Muslims

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mi1ZNEjEarw&feature=youtu.be

    ——————-

    Why do you go as far afield as the U.S. to find a country where the people elect their president?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_presidential_election,_2011

  127. “The point you also seem to have overlooked is that the party politician ceases, constitutionally, to be a party politician the moment he or she becomes President.”

    That’s part of the problem obviously. These party politicians will forever be linked to the legislature.

    Perhaps you think we can just ask them to cross their hearts and hope to die should they let their old mates influence them, or you’re particularly enamoured of revolving door politics.

    There are many many better people outside of politics than within, and it’d be a shame not to call upon their public service.

  128. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    16 Jul, 2013 - 6:18 pm

    @ Herbie

    I think I’ll make this the last one because it’s become fairly clear you don’t wish to answer the questions.

    Let me just say that I don’t think I said that it was “impossible to change” from a monarchy to a republic. On the contrary, it’s perfectly possible to do so – most present day republics were once Monarchies. And you are in error in your belief that asking questions about how republicans would envisage the election of the President is “bogging down the discussion in details”. In the real world, Herbie – to all but simple blowhards – details are important, are they not?

    You also said that “the desire to change” is the “first step”. That is true. But is it not also true that it is for those who wish to change from the status quo to make their case for doing so? This, I regret to note, you have also failed to do.

    So, in summary

    - you have not tried to make a reasoned case for changing from a Monarchy to a republic

    - you have failed, or are unwilling, to answer a few eminently practical questions to which such a change would ineluctably give rise.

  129. Sir Humphrey says:

    “- you have not tried to make a reasoned case for changing from a Monarchy to a republic”

    I have. Several times. I’ve pointed out that anyone who knows anything about the British Constitution knows that it’s a hodge podge, poorly cobbled together and resulting in what Lord Hailsham has called an elective dictatorship.

    That’s reason enough to change it. It’s certainly more than reason enough to question the bona fides of anyone trumpeting the current system as the best thing since sliced bread.

    “- you have failed, or are unwilling, to answer a few eminently practical questions to which such a change would ineluctably give rise.”

    There’s no need to get bogged down in the details at this stage. These are things that a Commission would look at, over a long period of time I’d imagine.

    All you need to know is that the system needs changing. You’re either for that or against it.

    What we certainly don’t want is any attempt by you to pretend that any change is so horribly complex that we’d best leave well enough alone, and that’s all you’re up to.

    Typical vested interest bureaucrat, in fact.

  130. Sofia Kibo Noh

    16 Jul, 2013 - 7:23 pm

    Habbas. 4 07pm

    ” “Habbabkuk” is third person singular.”

    Don’t be silly Dads!

  131. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    16 Jul, 2013 - 7:35 pm

    @ Herbie

    I shall now resume the discussion as you have moved away (wisely) from the theme of Monarchy/Republic wrt to the Head of State to the theme of the “Constitution” writ large, ie the political system applying in the UK.

    Firstly, let us leave aside as unworthy

    1) your by now usual suppositions as to motive (“Sir Humphrey”, my “bona fides” and “typical vested interest bureaucrat”; these are not arguments;

    2) your assertions (“trumpeting the current system as the best thing since sliced bread” and “pretending that any change is horribly complex”); these are inaccurate ans well as not being arguments.

    On the substance of your argument – such as it is – I would say the following two things:

    1/. You appear to be saying that the British (unwritten) constitution needs to be changed because it is a “poorly cobbled together hodge-podge which has led to an “elective dictatorship”.

    Given that these judgements of yours are subjective (there are many who would disagree) and leaving aside for the moment that there is no (written) constitution of long standing in the world that has not, like the UK constitution, evolved over time (in the case of written constitutions, by way of “amendments to the Constitution”), I’d be interested if you could flesh out in just a little detail in which way(s) the UK constitution is a “poorly cobbled together hodge podge, and also what you would consider to be the essential features of a new constitution that would meet with your approval.

    This leads me to my second point, which is really a variant on the point above :

    2/. Although I recognise its attractiveness (and convenience) as an argument, I’m not convinced that “all you need to know is that the system needs changing” but that there is no need for any, even broad, detail at this stage. I don’t think that its intellectually (as opposed to emotionally) valid to say something needs to be changed without having much of a clue what is wrong with the present system and what should be the main features of the new, supposedly better system. Hence my invitation to you under point 1.

    Remember now – we have moved away from the Monarchy, at your volition, so please keep your arguments focussed on your new theme of choice, the UK constitution and don’t move inot yet something else!

    Thank you

  132. “That’s unionism for you (Fred)”

    Nationalism, Unionism, two sides of the same coin. If you paid attention you would have seen me criticising Unionists.

    You really can’t comprehend anything but your “us and them” mindset can you?

  133. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    16 Jul, 2013 - 7:38 pm

    @ Dreoilin

    you’re right, Ireland just didn’t come to mind. But you musn’t assume that I live next door :)

  134. We’ve had this monarchy-versus republic discussion here on a number of occasions, actually, when the poster-formerly-known-as-Alfred [cue puff of sulphurous coriander emanation from the genocidal Indians of Leicester!], and others, put forward the various well-trodden, and somewhat valid, arguments for a constitutional monarchy.

    Personally, I’d like Britain a republic (there are a number of workable models) and have no aristocracy. But Britain’s problems run far deeper than that and just getting rid of the Crown and titles, on its own, would not alter these basic problems.

    So, either abolish the monarchy… or make me a Duke! Give me a pair of white rhinestone boots, a white cowboy hat and a louche swagger and I’m sorted. There are far too many damn barons and baronesses running around with their coronets bouncing off their heads, Alice Through the Looking Glass-style, as it is.

  135. “But you musn’t assume that I live next door.” Habbabkuk

    Habbabkuk, you’re not the boy next door? Aw, how disappointing. I’d always imagined you as a Bay City Roller.

  136. Habby

    The British Constitution includes the Monarchy, does it not, so how can you conclude that we’ve moved away from the Monarchy?

    I’m tempted just to refer you directly to Lord Hailsham’s excellent work on the subject of our “elective dictatorship”, and he knew a bit about this stuff, inside and outside and from a Tory perspective.

    But, I’ll give you a few pointers:

    British constitution enshrines in practice the unity of executive and legislature. They are one and the same, much much more often than not.

    This worked better when the party system was less rigid. Now it’s an abomination.

    Best practice is separation of executive and legislature, as was recognized in the emergence of Parliament itself and indeed even in the hodge podge cobbled together version where, in its stead, there’s now a pretence at separation of powers between monarch and parliament, the Queen appointing ministers and the other pretences in prerogative powers.

    The Queen isn’t the executive. None of the Privy Council committees, including the Cabinet are hers to control.

    These are factual distinctions.

    So, in Blair’s time, he controlled both parliament AND executive, running his own show pretty much as he liked. That’s the elective dictatorship.

    The question then becomes, do you want to retain this elective dictatorship or do you want a separation of powers between executive and legislature. Checks and balances, if you will.

    I should say, for clarity, that the hodge podge reference to British Constitution is not a reference to change through precedent etc but rather to the manner of its inception in the turbulence following civil war and Protestant Reformation.

  137. If anyone wants to watch an interesting take on Judaism/Being Jewish/Israel and related items, then feel free to watch this:

    http://www.youtube.com/user/zionget?feature=watch

  138. Good on you, Craig, and well done for avoiding the Liverpool Care Pathway.

    I note that the Murrayista misery-mongers are out in force today, moaning about feudalism and the downtrodden people of Cornwall, of all things. Still, at least it makes a change from Israel!

    A suggestion for the Miserables: get yourself down to Kernow while the fine weather lasts, and enjoy the serf!

    Life is grand!

  139. “I note that the Murrayista misery-mongers are out in force today, moaning…” Anon.

    Is this mammary alliteration ‘after Margaret Thatcher’, as in “moaning minnies”?

    And what of The Bay City Rollers, prithee?

  140. Sofia Kibo Noh

    16 Jul, 2013 - 9:05 pm

    @ Dad! All over the place, again.

    Apologies for the disgraceful ad hominem (7 23pm). I really have no idea how many of you there are.

    Re monarchy, you might as well argue for the desirability of intestinal worms.

    On value-for-money grounds alone the UK monarchy seems to be a no-brainer.

    The estimated total annual cost of the monarchy to taxpayers is £202.4m, around five times the official figure published by the royal household (£38.3m last year).

    That much would pay for 9,560 nurses.

    The British monarchy is 112 times as expensive as the Irish president and more than twice as expensive as the French semi-presidential system.

    How could anybody seriously want that?

    Loads more data at: http://www.republic.org.uk/valueformoneymyth.pdf‎

    Saoirse, comhionannas, bráithreachas!

  141. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    16 Jul, 2013 - 9:07 pm

    More like the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, Suhayl

    More mammaries will be necessary to suckle the throngs.

  142. “9,560 nurses…”

    Or 10,000 very small nurses.

    Here’s to the republic!

    But jngs ma boab! Alex Salmond still wants the Queen! Actually, one suspects he simply doesn’t want to frighten some people away from voting, ‘Yes’ to independence.

    Give Alex a cowboy hat and rhinestone boots, I say!

    You know what Kig Farouk said, don’t you?

  143. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    16 Jul, 2013 - 9:26 pm

    @ Herbie

    “The British Constitution includes the Monarchy, does it not, so how can you conclude that we’ve moved away from the Monarchy?”
    _________

    It does indeed, and I concluded that you had moved away from the Monarchy to the “Constitution writ large, ie the political system applicable in the UK” (the words I used)because you declined to answer a few key questions regarding how you thought a President should be elected, choosing instead to start talking about the UK constitution and issues such as the separation of powers between the executive and the legislature.

    Your references to Lord Hailsham reinforce the idea that you have enlarged the discussion in that his “The Dilemma of Democracy” – which I happen to possess (but thanks for the “pointers, anyway :) )is almost entirely about Parliament and says little about the Monarchy.

    Anyway : now that you’ve given us your “pointers”, would you care to advance a little on the question(s) I put to you on your new theme? You’ll find them in my post at 19h35 under point 1/.

    (Please don’t confine yourself to just saying something like “a better separation of powers between the executive and legislative branches of govt.” but give us your ideas on how you think this – and other improvements- could be achieved in your opinion.).

    Thank you.

  144. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    16 Jul, 2013 - 9:28 pm

    I think someone feels a pinch to the ‘Eminences’ of it’s own choice.

  145. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    16 Jul, 2013 - 9:32 pm

    @ Anon

    “Life is grand!”
    _______

    I don’t remember giving you a franchise on my “La vita è bella, life is good!” but it of course goes without saying that you’re very welcome!

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Loved the “enjoy the serf” as well :)

  146. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    16 Jul, 2013 - 9:36 pm

    @ Suhayl

    “You know what Kig Farouk said, don’t you?”
    _____________

    No, but let me guess (since he was very sexually active despite his girth) : “Give me 9560 nurses”?

  147. Flaming June:

    “That was 1.86 billion dollar bills not 1.86 billion £1 coins. Can you picture the stacks?”

    No i can’t but, simply, because my brain won’t go there towards a futile visualisation. Sounds, though, that you would like to picture them sitting under your mattress. Do i sense some envy here? What kind of mind is drawn to picture someone else’s ‘stacks’ ?
    ——
    ” Not many members of the committee there. Have they already jetted off for the hols?”
    Envy again or the new MP police?

  148. “The estimated total annual cost of the monarchy to taxpayers is £202.4m”

    I very much doubt the veracity of this estimation, but supposing for a moment it is correct, it would represent approximately half the annual aid sent to Pakistan. A healthy scepticism is in order whenever one sees “x amount would pay for y amount of nurses”. Always nurses, because that really tugs at the Murrayista heart-strings.

  149. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    16 Jul, 2013 - 9:47 pm

    202 mil seems about right for just keeping the gardens up. It’s a pittance that would only pay for a few thousand nurses, so not even worth mentioning.

  150. “The whole world is in revolt. Soon there will be only five Kings left — the King of England, the King of Spades, the King of Clubs, the King of Hearts, and the King of Diamonds.” King Farouk of Egypt.

    But who knows, he may well have said, “Give me 9,560 nurses”!

    Numbers of nurses are always quoted by the media in relation to almost anything. I don’t know what it is, specifically, about the numbers of nurses. It’s almost like a currency in the world of soap opera news.

    Having said all that, I agree with Sophia Kibo Noh.

    !!Send 9,560 murses to take over all the palaces!! Al together now: Inhale, exhale… !! Blow away the house of cards!! But Comrade Kibo, don’t let those nurses near the champagne…

  151. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    16 Jul, 2013 - 9:54 pm

    @ Anon

    And, do you know, I read something recently to the effect that nowadays it costs about £4 million to build one mile of motorway.

    So that would be about 50 miles of motorway a year we’re not building because of the Monarchy.

    Thing is, though, no mile of motorway would last 60-odd years as well as Her Majesty has.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    La vita è bella – Long live Her Gracious Majesty!

  152. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    16 Jul, 2013 - 9:55 pm

    Nurses are the true caregivers. Physicians, not so much.

  153. I think this may be where Sophia Kibo Noh got the figures from? But of course, at root, it’s not about figures.

    http://www.republic.org.uk/What%20we%20want/In%20depth/Royal%20finances/index.php

  154. Good stuff, Habbabkuk. I always thought Cornwall could do with a motorway.

    Am so sorry for the above transgression. As many of the eagle-eyed investigators here think I am you, I thought I would play along for a while and give them all the evidence they needed. You see, poor Dreoilin has had a run of bad luck lately, and so I thought she could do with a breakthrough!

  155. “Thing is, though, no mile of motorway would last 60-odd years as well as Her Majesty has.” Habbabkuk.

    Eek, you sound like Norman St John Stevas. I need a parenteral anti-emetic. Let me call a care-giver! Let me call a nurse!

  156. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    16 Jul, 2013 - 10:04 pm

    10,000 nurses needed to pave a mile in Lancashire. Pretty good pay for the week.

  157. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    16 Jul, 2013 - 10:09 pm

    Musical interlude on topic.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmOe27SJ3Yc

  158. We’re seeing a lot of this ‘republic’ web link, Suhayl, but I doubt it takesinto account the economic benefits of the Monarchy in terms of tourism and Diana mugs. But you’re right, it’s not about money, but principle. So thank Her Maj for 60 years of unimpeachable public service.

  159. “Saoirse, comhionannas, bráithreachas!”

    Sofia, you’re a tonic. :)

    Habbabkuk, fwiw, I think you’re in the United States. My comment about “so far afield” was addressed to nobody in particular.

    Mention of rhinestone boots reminds me, I used to listen to a lot of this great singer
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prJyb7W605c

    and for Suhayl, who mentioned the bobbies two ba two:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWB1Sqsx1jo

  160. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    16 Jul, 2013 - 10:13 pm

    @ Anon

    £200 millions (if correct, of course) is equivalent to about £3,50 per head of the UK population, illegals included. And that is equivalent to about 1p a day.

    I believe it now costs at least 10p to have a pee in one of those public paying lavatories.

    Absolutely scandalous! (both, I hasten to add)

    Peep peep!

  161. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    16 Jul, 2013 - 10:13 pm

    Jack Nicholson as the NHS. They like nurses.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYDP3nBh_E4

  162. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    16 Jul, 2013 - 10:26 pm

    @ Suhayl

    “Eek, you sound like Norman St John Stevas.”

    Ouch! A bit below the belt, that, don’t you think?
    _________

    @ Anon

    No transgression at all! The more people who think and write “Life is grand!” the better! Because it is.

  163. ” do you know, I read something recently to the effect that nowadays it costs about £4 million to build one mile of motorway. ”

    Must’ve been along time ago, latest figures from the Highway agency that I can find put the cost of a mile of three lane motorway at £30 million but that skyrockets if it has to be put in a tunnel or on an elevated section. The five mile elevated extension to the M74 in Glasgow cost £692 million.

  164. Habbabkuk (La Vita È Bella!)
    Unblock? NO

    Anon (Habbys bumchum)
    Block? YES

    Villager (Habbys new bumchum)
    Block? YES

  165. Sofia Kibo Noh

    16 Jul, 2013 - 10:47 pm

    @Anon. 9 42pm

    “Always nurses, because that really tugs at the Murrayista heart-strings.”

    Can you supply links to back up other times when dastardly Murrayistas have used nurses for that purpose?

    I was just thinking in terms of value to society.

    Value of 9,560 nurses = Value of 1 monarch?

    How difficult is that to work out?

    Of the various forms of government which have prevailed in the world, an hereditary monarchy seems to present the fairest scope for ridicule
    Edward Gibbon

    Seditious mutterings here from the Flaming chicken run. NSA megafolder: FJwe7fh87

  166. resident dissident

    16 Jul, 2013 - 10:47 pm

    Best wishes for a speedy recovery.

    Does Craig’s use of the Royal “we” in the blog title have any significance? Given the support of some of his acolytes for the Syrian and North Korean monarchies perhaps he is planning to offer himself as a replacement for Liz Windsor who clearly doesn’t meet the exacting standards they set for monarchs.

  167. What you need to be on ‘full fighting form’ (craig) is (‘surely’?!) a good ‘support crew’ (?!) …

  168. resident dissident

    16 Jul, 2013 - 10:52 pm

    Yes Exexpat – but who is on your list for stringing up come the revolution. All good revolutionaries have a list or seven dont they?

  169. Resident Dissident
    Unblock?

  170. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    16 Jul, 2013 - 10:56 pm

  171. And no ‘we’ aren’t fucking stooge($) asif 4 asad bunch of bastards such as the dprk regimeß or suck as ..

  172. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    16 Jul, 2013 - 11:07 pm

    @ Kempe

    My God, that much?

    Was I at least right in my estimation of the price of taking a leak? I hope you’re not going to tell me it costs 50p.

    At £30 million minimum per mile, that means that every year 6,5 miles of motorway don’t get built because of Her Majesty.

    Appalling!

  173. Kibo
    “Apologies for the disgraceful ad hominem (7 23pm). I really have no idea how many of you there are.”

    That doesn’t sound like a very sincere apology when in the same breath you accuse Habbabkuk of sock-puppeting. And, Kibo, dear friend coming from you of all people? I’m disappointed that the daughter struggles to follow “Dad’s” standards.

    Note how Herbie had to be cautioned and put on the mat (quite rightly) by Habby, for infringing Craig’s direct advice.

    Ironic though how you and Herbie are the first one’s to go with your-thinly-veiled-sucking-up appearance to Jon to show Jon support, and the next second, this is what you resort to.

    Herbie, starts addressing Habby as Sir Humphreys or whatever. Next, someone might be tempted to call him Herbie**ore — how helpful would that be?

    Please decide whether you really support moderation here or not. As for Sophia it was ok while it lasted, but she’s way past her sell-by date, i would suggest. As Obama said ‘you never step into the same river twice’. Its a great pity that his deeper side has been a-wasted. Just a sign of the times. And because of those signs i’m interested in the primacy of how the mind impacts politics/society and less so of how politics impacts the mind which is secondary. So at the secondary level we see all this frustration and bitterness. And acting from that frustration only arises more frustration. That is why the world is confused, lost.

    If you want to see change, please change.

    As for Herbie, he seems to be here only in a vain attempt to score points. I have read with interest his exchange with Habby who is chasing him all over the board — he’s on the ropes with no specifics. Note seriously how Habby brings rigour to the debate.
    ——
    Btw some good points made by Habby and Suhayl, inspired by Dreoilin, earlier re potential education dollars being lost in military machines of so-called developing countries.

  174. Expat apply for a moderator’s role — see what happens. Proof of the pudding is in the eating. Objectivity is in my training as is freedom to observe. Poodles and herd mentality was part of the problem how Blair managed to shaft the whole of the British parliament. Come out of the shadows.

    And by all means contribute to the debate instead of just sitting there saying i don’t like him, block. Bumchums etc, grow up if you’re serious at all about the world, its sorry state and humanity.

  175. I’ve had a load of jet fighters flying around in circles over me all day, costs £30,000 and hour to keep one of those things in the air.

    I’m no fan of the Royal Family, can’t stand them myself, loathe them actually but I know a lot of people do like them. I know see how immensely popular they are with the masses, they sell an awful lot of news papers.

    So I reckon they don’t cost that much compared to fighter planes and giving arms to Al Qaeda and such`so I’m quite prepared to tolerate them considering they give so much pleasure to all those people standing hours in the rain to wave flags as they drive past.

    That’s what a free society is all about isn’t it? Tolerating the things you don’t like much for the sake of those that do. If we start demanding everything is just how we want it be then a lot of society isn’t going to be free.

  176. Habby

    There are two answers to Britain’s recurrent problem in having a constitutional setup that almost always produces an elective dictatorship.

    1. Abolish the monarchy and elect an executive president with real power.

    2. Strengthen parliament and make the electoral system more representative of the people.

    2. is what’s normally proposed these days, but they don’t ever seem to get around to it.

    1. is easier. You just need media to work their Diana magic again.

  177. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    16 Jul, 2013 - 11:32 pm

    @ Villager

    “As for Herbie, he seems to be here only in a vain attempt to score points. I have read with interest his exchange with Habby who is chasing him all over the board — he’s on the ropes with no specifics.”
    _________

    You cheeky so-and-so! What do you mean, “on the ropes”? – Herbie was down on the canvas, out for the count.

    But then his twin brother stepped into the ring with a new theme. Owing to his present silence, only time can tell how many rounds he’ll go before the ref counts him out.

    When Habbabkuk’s in the ring, you get two for the price of one, and that is not to be sneezed at in these austere times.

  178. Excellent Big Picture comment by Fred.

    Profound in terms of relevance of comparison to fighter jets and the broader point about, as i read it, live and let live — based on the reality of “what is’, Not some ideology.
    —–
    Whats your verdict Expat?

  179. Sofia Kibo Noh

    17 Jul, 2013 - 12:00 am

    @Villager. 11 11pm

    “That doesn’t sound like a very sincere apology when in the same breath you accuse Habbabkuk of sock-puppeting.”

    I can see how you might have though that I was accusing there. In fact I was simply apollogising for a post that was 100% ad hominen. I take the piss, I know, but I try to keep it relevant and I dashed that one out in haste and later regretted it. Hence the apology.

    I don’t really care whether Dad is singular or plural. What matters to me is that, whatever the topic he/she/they can be counted on to defend the indefensible. Always promoting narratives in which humanity loses out to power.

    Re monarchy, I just can’t for the life of me see how one UK monarach could be considered to be worth 9560 nurses or 112 Irish presidents. That’s it.

  180. Okay Habby so it must be in the genes — Sofia Kibo also tried to give us a two-for-one :-) I get it ;-)

    Anyway I’m reminded of one of my favourite Beatles songs for its melody of the Beatles well before Sir Paul

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXdKlpBOvs0

    All hypocrites, though!

    What did the Flower-children bring us other than a popularisation of drugs?

    We need another way to live but i remain deeply sceptical of the armchair activists like Flaming June, Herbie and our failed petty-politician Nevermind and such likes.

  181. Sorry if i misunderstood you but the Eminences including ‘Herbie’ have been going on neurotically — minus the forensics i applied in your determination — about Anon being Habbabkuk.

    Take your point re equivalence but the Irish e.g. perhaps is a better apples-for-apples comparison. One will get a closer look in the morning.

  182. Villager
    17 Jul, 2013 – 12:06 am

    intended for Kibo, if not obvious

  183. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Jul, 2013 - 12:10 am

    Villager; I respect your protectiveness wrt to free speech, but I question the limits. Do you really think the unmentionable one is serious and not disruptive in intent? I have been meaning to ask you that question.

  184. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Jul, 2013 - 12:18 am

    I guess i’m using the US definition of ‘free speech’. In our democracy, you can’t yell fire in a crowded theater when no fire exists. There are limits.

  185. Ben, i think he is. He doesn’t rush to declare or box himself as a ‘liberal’ wearing it as on a uniformed sleeve as many do here, but i think he’s on the ‘right side’ of many key issues (or at least he wants to understand if one is taking a holistic view in a very imperfect world. Syria is an example)– my interpretation, i don’t want to be speaking for him. He’s far more subtle than some of the gushing sycophants, a trait i despise in the spirit of poodles etc — see my earlier point re Blair shafting the whole of Parliament and then people reelecting him for more. A rigourous debate to come to ‘conclusions’ or synthesis of thinking is more scientific and rational.

  186. Ben, but you can chase a black unarmed young black boy, start an intimidating altercation and then take out a licenced gun and shoot him dead with candy in his pocket.

  187. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Jul, 2013 - 12:27 am

    Then why does ‘he who must be obeyed’ harass those who wish not to engage. That feature, to me is a bug. It identifies one who uses that approach as a troll. Is it ‘borderline personality disorder’, or am I seeing this through a prism?

  188. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Jul, 2013 - 12:29 am

    “but you can chase a black unarmed young black boy, start an intimidating altercation and then take out a licenced gun and shoot him dead with candy in his pocket”

    And..get away with it. That’s my point.

  189. Might i also add that we are far more downstream in the evolution of dialogue from even a month ago. I think people need to move on and be agile and live a new day fresh rather than lapsing back. Life is a living thing!

  190. Sofia Kibo Noh

    17 Jul, 2013 - 12:46 am

    “I Hereby Resign in Protest Effective Immediately”

    “The narrative, professed by the state, and echoed by the mainstream press, has proven false and criminal. We have become what I thought we were fighting against.”Brandon Troy (Former US soldier)

    Full letter: https://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/07/16-5

    How many wearing those uniforms must be having similar realisations?

    It must be getting harder by the day to really believe all the crap.

  191. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Jul, 2013 - 12:55 am

    I would rather think the progression is ‘upstream’. Salmon prefer it.

  192. “At £30 million minimum per mile, that means that every year 6,5 miles of motorway don’t get built because of Her Majesty.

    Appalling!”

    Another way of looking at would be grateful for the environmental damage thus prevented.

  193. Flaming June

    17 Jul, 2013 - 4:50 am

    Ten Years Ago: The Political Assassination of Dr. David Kelly

    The Dr Kelly Inquest Campaign demands due process of law – the re-opening of Dr Kelly’s inquest – and transparency, to achieve truth and justice.

    TENTH ANNIVERSARY SILENT PROTEST

    ROYAL COURTS OF JUSTICE,
    THURSDAY 18th JULY 2013
    2pm PHOTOCALL

    The campaign to re-open the inquest into the death of Dr David Kelly is holding a silent, gagged, protest outside the Royal Courts of Justice, London, on Thursday 18th July 2pm, to mark the tenth anniversary of Dr Kelly’s death and to demand the re-opening of his inquest.

    Campaigners demand Dr Kelly’s inquest, as his right under British law, to examine all the evidence, including the fresh evidence. The coroner ‘speaks for the dead to protect the living.’ Campaigners demand due process of British law and transparency, for the clear establishment of truth and justice.

    All single, unexplained deaths require an inquest under British law. Dr Kelly’s unexplained death, according to many centuries of British law, should have been examined in a proper coronial inquest, with the option of a jury, the power to subpoena witnesses, testimony given under oath, with cross-examination and the requirement to establish suicide beyond reasonable doubt.

    Instead, Section 17A of the Coroners Act 1988 was quickly invoked – which is used to cover multiple deaths, as with train disasters – probably uniquely, for Dr Kelly’s single, unexplained death. The result was the Hutton Inquiry, engaged only to look into ‘the circumstances surrounding Dr Kelly’s death’, neither overseen by a coroner, nor with the proper powers of an inquest.

    There is fresh evidence which requires the scrutiny of a proper coronial inquest. Thames Valley Police FoI responses reveal that there were no fingerprints on six items found with Dr Kelly’s body, including the knife with which he is said to have cut his ulnar artery, blister packs of Co-proxamol tablets, which he is said to have swallowed, an opened water bottle, a watch, spectacles and mobile phone. No gloves were found at the scene.

    Lord Hutton requested the records provided to the Hutton Inquiry, not produced in evidence, be closed for 30 years, and that medical reports and photographs be closed for 70 years. The Ministry of Justice was unable to explain the legal basis for Lord Hutton’s order.

    The Dr Kelly Inquest Campaign demands due process of law – the re-opening of Dr Kelly’s inquest – and transparency, to achieve truth and justice.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/ten-years-ago-the-political-assasination-of-dr-david-kelly/5342952

  194. Flaming June

    17 Jul, 2013 - 5:31 am

    Barclays have already been fined for fixing the Libor rates. Now they have another fine for manipulating US electricity prices.

    US energy regulator orders Barclays to pay £299m fine
    Bank penalised for attempting to manipulate US electricity market hours after appointing Tushar Morzaria as financial director
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/jul/17/us-energy-regulator-barclays-fine

    Barclays….’We are very disappointed’…. Not half as disappointed as the many Joe Soaps and their families in the US who were swindled.

    Fines, however large, do not have any effect on this bank’s illegal activities. Shut them down and be done with it. Oh sorry! They have got a new director who will make them squeaky clean like Domestos does. He is being stolen from JP Morgan Chase (B.Liar’s employer) at a reputed £6m salary.

    And no Villager. I do not envy wealth, in yet another of your preposterous statements made about me in your role of armchair psychologist. These bankers can keep their obscene wealth. It will not make them happy or extend their lives.

    The other night I was watching a programme about the current state of medical care in Greece. It is appalling and is virtually non existent. Unless you can pay for treatment and medication you have to rely on charity. The poor people are suffering whilst the likes of Goldman Sachs who set Greece up, went off with the profits from the deal.

    Greece’s life-saving austerity medics
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23247914

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/25/world/europe/greek-unemployed-cut-off-from-medical-treatment.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

    PS I see there is another reference to me above in your midnight ramblings. ‘We need another way to live but i remain deeply sceptical of the armchair activists like Flaming June, Herbie and our failed petty-politician Nevermind and such likes.’ You seem to have a fixation. Leave me out of your comments. I do not engage with you nor do I have any wish to do so.

  195. Flaming June

    17 Jul, 2013 - 5:39 am

    Iran, Argentina, Saudi Arabia, Sri Lanka, China. They are all in the frame, including Israel.

    The committees also want more detail on a sales licence granted to Israel earlier this year for the purchase of £7.7bn worth of what is described as “equipment employing cryptography and software for equipment employing cryptography”. (BBC website)

    Scrutiny of Arms Exports and Arms Control (2013) Report
    17 July 2013

    There are over 3,000 Government approved export licences, worth more than £12 billion, for strategic controlled goods going to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office’s 27 Countries of Human Rights concern say MPs.

    http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/other-committees/committee-on-arms-export-controls/news/pn-report/

  196. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    17 Jul, 2013 - 6:41 am

    @ Ben Franklin, re my occasional interventions on this blog

    “I guess i’m using the US definition of ‘free speech’. In our democracy, you can’t yell fire in a crowded theater when no fire exists. There are limits.”
    ___________

    As often, this sounds impressive but reveals itself less so when you stop to think for a second or two….

    My questioning of la pensée unique on this blog is compared to shouting fire in a crowded theatre (and should therefore be sanctioned)?

    This reveals a slightly exaggerated sense of importance about this blog and a more than slightly exaggerated sense of self-importance on the part of some of the Eminences, I think.

  197. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    17 Jul, 2013 - 6:45 am

    Could it be that “fixations” are contagious?

    In good medical practice, the source of an infection is normally quarantined.

  198. “Ouch! A bit below the belt, that, don’t you think?” Habbabkuk.

    Norman St John Stevas didn’t have a below-the-belt. Perish the thought, Ma’am!

  199. Flaming June

    17 Jul, 2013 - 7:45 am

    We comment on the US hellholes yet we have our own.

    ‘Morton Hall detainee held for nearly three years, report finds
    A charity for immigration detainees said protests in centres were not uncommon

    An asylum seeker has been detained for three years without trial at a Lincolnshire centre, a report reveals.

    Inspectors at Morton Hall Immigration Detention Centre praised recent improvements but raised concerns that many people were held for too long.

    Immigration Minister Mark Harper said the Home Office “enforces the return” of people in the country illegally.

    Campaign group Detention Action said the UK should put a time limit on how long people were held.

    ‘Safe establishment’

    A riot broke out at the centre, which houses about 360 men, over the Christmas period, according to the staff union and in July last year a number of detainees protested at the length of time they had been held.

    But HM Inspectorate of Prisons said it was “pleased to see physical security” had been upgraded since the disturbances.’

    /..
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-23334753#

  200. If the UK must be a republic, a model that provides for an elected president would be a disaster. Elected people are, by functional neccesity, politicians. So to have a politician elected separately to a parliamentary party is a recipe for political conflict and embarrassment for the government.

    My preferred system is one of parliamentary appointment of someone who was never a member of a political party (eliminating appointment of political cronies), is over 50 years of age and titled ‘Ambassador General’ rather than ‘President’ in keeping with their effective role as an internationally roving representative of the country. Former judges or military top brass could be suitable candidates. Oz used to appoint retired military brass as Governors General before Labor decided to go with an affirmative action policy.

    As a republican myself, I see that monarchy has a diminishing future. But I will not support any model that attempts to recreate the appallingly bad, but glamorous, US model. Republicans are, in my view, a little too excited for change and a little too deluded about what improvements to society such change will bring. Look around the world and see what republicanism has done for other countries.

    Having said that, a reasonable person should tote up the pros and cons of monarchy vs republic on a periodic basis and make informed, not romantic, decisions about where their best interests lie in the future.

  201. NSA News.
    The lawyers are moving in on them in the USA. Should get interesting. This is First Amendment stuff, they have not started on Fourth Amendment yet. Washington’s defence up till Snowden was that it was all secret and all evidence anecdotal. No more.

    https://www.eff.org/press/releases/unitarian-church-gun-groups-join-eff-sue-nsa-over-illegal-surveillance

  202. Kempe: Komodo, you’re quoting from exactly the kind of nationalist website I was talking about.

    For the n’th time, I’m not arguing for Cornish independence. I’m truly neutral, verging on anti (it’s economic nonsense) on the matter. What I quoted from the website is true. It has the advantage of being concisely stated there; if I hadn’t quoted it, I’d have had to use two or three links. And I’m sorry, the Daily Mail didn’t have much information on the topic, and I couldn’t use the Excrescences’ official source for that reason.

    Monarchy: It occurred to me, belatedly, that, re. the monarchy, the alternative is usually assumed to be a President, who performs the same function at rather less cost – basically frontman for the country. In the UK, the PM performs all the identifiable functions undertaken in the US by the elected President – so a President would be superfluous. Functionally, HM is unnecessary, by the same token. She simply doubles-up the PM’s, and our ambassadors’, PR brief.

    It’s time to rethink the job. Which is, essentially, PR. For that we need a personage well-versed in branding and marketing, capable of heading a team of creatives and capable of implementing a Ministerial brief with imagination and flair. They should be charismatic, and well-informed. They should not have to ask the random punter beside whom their gilt carriage has paused what he does: they should know. Conversational and wide networking skills would be a distinct asset. Appointing such a one, issuing it with a crown, and paying it by results, would enable the PM of the day to GET ON WITH RUNNING THE BLOODY COUNTRY INSTEAD OF SWANNING OFF TO UZBEKISTAN TO SELL ARMS.

    In short, ladies and gentlemen, Eminences and Excrescences, the monarchy should be the subject of a PFI contract with a PR firm.

  203. Flaming June

    17 Jul, 2013 - 9:01 am

    What’s wrong with the Irish system? It produced Michael D. Higgins. He even had his salary reduced. How often do you hear of that?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_D._Higgins

  204. Sofia Kibo Noh

    17 Jul, 2013 - 9:09 am

    @Jemand. 8 43am

    “…an elected president would be a disaster.”

    Mary Robinson, Mary Mac Aleese, Michael D. Higgins.

    Disasters? Maybe one bit of the system that really works, in Ireland at least.

    You should give it a try at a hundred and twelve times less cost. Then you could invest in a few thousand nurses. See what benefit that would bring to UK society.

  205. What’s wrong with the Irish system?

    My crystal ball tells me that you will shortly receive a not-very-polite answer to that question…

  206. Sofia Kibo Noh

    17 Jul, 2013 - 9:11 am

    @Flaming, you beat me to it. Thanks.

  207. Interesting list of folks buying our arms here:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23336914

    The committees also want more detail on a sales licence granted to Israel earlier this year for the purchase of £7.7bn worth of what is described as “equipment employing cryptography and software for equipment employing cryptography”.

    This one licence granted in February 2013 accounted for well over 50% of the value of all existing licences to the countries in question.

    Completely unrelated news:

    http://www2.cfoi.co.uk/Delegations/RecentDelegations/

    Philip Hammond’s attendance was of course completely coincidental. Trust they had a nice time not selling £7Bn -worth of crypto kit to our faithful allies.

    HM The Queen has never been to Israel. Because it would risk souring our relations with the oil states, it is said.

  208. Persecution of a young woman by Thames Valley Police.

    Private Eye In The Back: What Katie didn’t do
    http://www.private-eye.co.uk/sections.php?section_link=in_the_back&issue=1344

    Yet Katie Bowman has never been convicted of any crime. … Sara Thornton…. from Katie’s MP Dominic Grieve QC (who also happens to be the attorney-general), …

    Forensic science graduate has been stopped 70 TIMES by police …

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2366360/Forensic-science-graduate-stopped-70-TIMES-police-splitting-PC-lover.html

    9 hours ago – Katie Bowman, 24, alleges she was targeted over 28 months by Thames … Dominic Grieve, who said he was ‘seriously concerned’ by damning …

    Dominic Grieve who is her MP is taking up her case. Katie was on Radio 4 Today this morning apparently. It’s here at 6.50am.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b036vrsc/live

  209. Sofia Kibo Noh

    17 Jul, 2013 - 11:14 am

    Flaming June. 10 33am

    Re the case of Katie Bowman.

    You have me half persuaded that UK monarchy benefits society after all.

    Cost of 1 UK monarch = Cost of 2800 police officers

  210. you poor thing, Villager, your vile, endearing words won’t help anyone, especially not yourself.

    “We need another way to live but i remain deeply sceptical of the armchair activists like Flaming June, Herbie and our failed petty-politician Nevermind and such likes”

    So you need another way to live do you? so why do you exercise your few grey cells here, when you could be doing something about it. Ohh you are apathetic with political parties, diddums. So dependent on them aren’t you?, couldn’t possibly stand up yourself, oh no, what a shame, and to take the ‘losing’ against these party political crooks would really be to much for you.

    It is not me who is the loser, I got used to the masochismn that is British politics, its feckless little gnats like you, who just can’t be bothered.

    I wish you everything you deserve and desire.

    Now to an update on yesterdays incident two days ago in Norfolk. The chap who was beaten up by police is in Kings Lynn QE hospital awaiting an angiogramm at Papworth, he has no idea what or why the police did what they did. And apart from them trying to make out he assaulted the police,THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN THE PRESS OR BBC ABOUT IT!

    This arrived this morning.
    “He had a heart attack and is on standby for an angiogram at Papworth, will be in hospital at least 5 days as standard, police gave him a good kicking, broke into his house, ransacked his office and took something they wanted??? but he has no idea what.

    10 police cars, incl 2 dog vans and I’m sure he said the shooting squad and helicopter … bit OTT !!
    He will be charged with assaulting a police officer on June 29th …..

    His phone is not working properly ….”

    I wonder why

  211. Sorry to hear that dreadful news Nevermind. Fascist bullies are at work. Arrests should be made.

    Have the EDP said anything yet? There was nothing yesterday when I looked. They even have buttons for Incinerator and Environment.

    http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/incinerator

  212. Holy heck …

    “Vatican offers ‘time off purgatory’ to followers of Pope Francis tweets”

    Papal court handling pardons for sins says contrite Catholics may win ‘indulgences’ by following World Youth Day on Twitter

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/16/vatican-indulgences-pope-francis-tweets

  213. Christ! Goodness!, Dreoilin. The Dark Ages are coming round again. I’ve suspected this for a while, but now I know.

    I need to find the official tariff of charges and discounts for Purgatory, btw. Anyone? Is it on the internet? All I get when I Google them is this:

    http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Hotel_Review-g33397-d1486100-Reviews-Purgatory_Lodge_at_Durango_Mountain_Resort-Durango_Colorado.html

    I suspect I will be staying for a while, and it looks expensive.

  214. Nevermind,
    I am wondering if it might have something to do with this earlier event (roundup on 5th July)..

    http://www.wisbechstandard.co.uk/news/breaking_news_police_name_11_suspects_on_false_imprisonment_and_assault_charges_due_in_court_today_1_2265364

    Sounds like they were tooled up for organised crime.

  215. Sofia Kibo Noh

    17 Jul, 2013 - 12:34 pm

    @Nevermind. 11 29am

    “…vile, endearing words…”

    To me they seem to sit badly with continual advice about deep stuff.

    The sermons come from one who gives the impression of being one of a superior group who are doing all the inner heavy-lifting, while the rest of us poor unfortunate ignoramuses wast our energy on trifling worldly matters .

    Would the great teacher so often invoked have thought that clicking to a blog that causes such regular verbal eruptions should be done with extreme caution, maybe in the presence of a mentor, for an occasional bit homework?

    The pupil might then carefully visit the site and look deep to identify where those words and judjements are coming from.

    Best every week or so, so as to have suficcient for all that inner work.

    In the meantime, back here, we can chew over…. lets see…
    …monarchy – what an anachronism!

    …the bankers’ putsch – still has our leaders grovelling and dismantling both national sovereignty and those parts of the state which most benefit society!

    …the secret and overt use of destructive state violence for private gain – a superpower running amok!

    …and a hunderd other other matters which, for our kids, will determine the world they inherit and adversely blight all their futures.

    Their future. Now those are things worth being passionate about.

  216. Komodo, nice try, but no, nowt to do with that, he is an inventor.

  217. Craig- great to see you on the road to recovery.

    The news of the latest official whitewash will, I trust, not send your blood pressure rising…

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23341597

  218. Flaming June

    17 Jul, 2013 - 1:20 pm

    SaVile contd.
    http://news.sky.com/story/1116790/thatcher-pushed-for-jimmy-savile-knighthood

    ZBC have spent £5m on their SaVile inquiries so far. For what purpose? Just a few manager types have been booted out with nice packages to leave.

    They have also handed over £14m to Clarkson. Austerity. What austerity? Laughing in our faces?

    Top Gear: Jeremy Clarkson netted more than £14m from show last year
    Presenter received £4.8m dividend and £8.4m share buyout from BBC Worldwide, plus his presenter’s salary of nearly £1m
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013/jul/16/jeremy-clarkson-top-gear-bbc-worldwide

    He is part of the Rebekah Brooks/Elisabeth Murdoch ‘Chipping Norton’ grouping so double black marks for him.

  219. Sofia Kibo Noh

    17 Jul, 2013 - 1:21 pm

    Nevermind 12 51pm

    “…he is an inventor…” and so clearly needing his state’s industrialised repression experience. Pour décourager Les Autres. Nous sommes tous Les Autres. Chacun d’entre nous!

    Why would “the state” want social or technical inventiveness outside the boxes flagged in the corporate media as “acceptable?”

  220. …he is an inventor.

    That should seal his anonymous fate , then. Dangerous people, inventors. They invent stuff, you know. Requires original thinking thoughtcrime.

    Would any word be possible of what he invents? Might it be relevant?

  221. Snap, Sofia. But it may be nothing to do with the death ray he is building for al-Qaeda. It may just be that the police don’t like him (see Flaming June 17 Jul, 2013 – 10:33 am )

    FJ -He is part of the Rebekah Brooks/Elisabeth Murdoch/David Cameron ‘Chipping Norton’ grouping…

    FIFY

  222. Sofia Kibo Noh

    17 Jul, 2013 - 1:34 pm

    @Komodo.1 29pm

    Good to see you’ve digested that goat enough to crawl back.

    What an exhibition that was!

  223. Flaming June

    17 Jul, 2013 - 1:39 pm

    Can you imagine Agent Cameron dressed as The Stig?

    http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/helen-lewis-hasteley/2011/07/clarkson-cameron-rebekah

    What shallow people.

  224. On the matter of how we appoint a head of state, I rather keen on the idea of a hereditary monarchy.
    This isn’t for romantic reasons but purely practical ones.
    The problem with an elected head of state is that we would almost certainly have some sort of restricted list of potential candidates to choose from.
    The candidates would either be self selecting ( heaven forbid) or chosen by some Falkirkesque cabal or less than transparent committee potentially with their own agenda. Who chooses the choosers!
    Something a bit less manipulated and arbitrary is what I have in mind.
    We could simply choose our head of state at random and by lots….everyone on the voters roll automatically entered in the draw, or simply have a good old fashioned hereditary system ….how more arbitrary can it get than that?

  225. No, not yet Komodo, I know of his name but shan’t use it here. I shall let you know when I know, via email.

  226. Sofia Kibo Noh

    17 Jul, 2013 - 1:53 pm

    @Dreoilin. 11 33am

    “If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities.”
    Voltaire

    Seems he understood a thing or two.

  227. Komodo,

    Tripadvisor! That cracked me up. Nice looking place though.

    [I was under the impression that Limbo, Purgatory, and especially indulgences, had been done away with long ago.]

    And Sofia, yes, if we believe absurdities … and to marry tweets with ‘time off purgatory’ … grotesque somehow. My mind has not quite finished boggling.

    Idiots

  228. alexander's head on a stick

    17 Jul, 2013 - 2:29 pm

    Right, Tony, they have not started on the Fourth Amendment yet, much less

    - the human right to privacy, UDHR Article 12, part of federal common law and of the common law of every state, and ICCPR Article 17, supreme law of the land by Constitution Article VI and equivalent to federal statute, with which the US is bound by treaty to comply at all levels of government;

    - The human right to freedom of association, UDHR Article 20, federal and state common law, and ICCPR Article 22, supreme law of the land equivalent to federal statute, with which the US is bound to comply at all levels of government;

    - Or the human right to seek and obtain information, UDHR Article 19, federal and state common law, and ICCPR Article 19, supreme law of the land equivalent to federal statute, with which all levels of the US government are bound to comply.

    Best of all, since the US has signed the International Court of Justice statute, the rights above must interpreted based on international precedents and experts in international law. These rights can’t be perverted or waved away by the US judges that NSA spies on and blackmails. Every country in the world can pile on to enforce those legal rights on the US pariah state.

  229. and more from (almost) the same quarter

    Some here will be aware of the Magdalene laundries

    “Taoiseach Enda Kenny has called on the four religious orders who ran the Magdalene laundries to “reflect” on their refusal to pay into a redress scheme for the survivors.”

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/kenny-asks-orders-to-reflect-on-refusal-to-pay-redress-1.1466287

  230. And here is a rightly appreciative comment about our tabloidal excretions in Britain, especially that of the misogynist Daily Mail.

    Habby, wisely listen to Sophia and take your blue pill before you watch this delightful response.

    http://amandapalmer.net/blog/20130713/

  231. In fairness, if Habbabkuk told Mary to, “take your blue pill before you watch this delightful response”, all hell would break loose.

  232. Re the Ben Franklin quote – “In our democracy, you can’t yell fire in a crowded theater when no fire exists.”

    Quite so, in a real democracy. But the problem in a country that is a sham democracy without real freedom of speech/press is that people are scared to speak out even when fire does exist. Think of the Sir Jimmy Savile pedophile scandal that is now being brushed under the table. Sure a few minor celebrities have been exposed, but the big boys are walking away unscathed.

  233. Jake

    That’s a rather confused argument.

    You say

    “The problem with an elected head of state is that we would almost certainly have some sort of restricted list of potential candidates to choose from.”

    and you then propose as a solution to this restricted list that we should

    “simply have a good old fashioned hereditary system”

    I’m not sure that it could get more restricted than er restricting it to the Windsor breeding machine.

    Anyway. The real issue here is what sort of system is produced by monarchy. We’ve seen that it produces an elective dictatorship, allowing extremists like Blair and Thatcher to do as they please.

    That’s the price of monarchy. The rest is distraction.

  234. Sofia Kibo Noh

    17 Jul, 2013 - 3:58 pm

    @Nevermind. 2 32pm

    Happy hour’s a bit early today, is’nt it?

    I only came in for a cuppa but forgot it completely for the whole brilliant 5mins 53secs.

    Pure genius! Thanks.

  235. H’s need is greater than Mary’s, Dreo….

    blue pill

  236. With which, Komodo, you have brought the thread full circle, back on theme, i.e. we are not dead yet

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHNyOhl75P8

  237. lol @ Nevermind. Far from it!

    Re. Fourth Amendment, invocation of, against NSA datamining…

    http://investmentwatchblog.com/nsa-spying-now-protected-from-any-challenges-under-the-fourth-amendment/

    Supreme court has ground cut from under it – legal recourse is disabled.

  238. Here’s an interesting backgrounder on the coup more generally known as The Glorious Revolution:

    Whilst the religious distraction is still celebrated today in The Twelfth, Guy Fawkes etc, this is the important purposeful bit.

    “William’s wars profoundly changed the British state. Their massive cost led not only to growth of modern financial institutions – most notably the Bank of England founded in 1694″

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/civil_war_revolution/glorious_revolution_01.shtml

    Then there’s the small matter of its having left us with an elective dictatorship.

  239. Flaming June

    17 Jul, 2013 - 4:46 pm

    Ref pills. Was it necessary to use my name specifically Dreoilin?

    ~~~~~~
    Malala has received this letter from a member of the Taliban.

    http://www.channel4.com/media/c4-news/images/730_wide_images/Malala_letter.pdf

    http://www.channel4.com/news/malala-taliban-letter-commander-exclusive

  240. I suppose it doesn’t matter much what system of government you have, if a small cabal can alternatively, blackmail and/or buy holders of significant offices of state.

    I wonder what they do with those pure souls who can neither be bought nor blackmailed.

    No. Not that.

    Media mostly just ignores them:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6m1XbWOfVk

  241. Komodo 17 Jul, 2013 – 9:33 am

    HM The Queen has never been to Israel. Because it would risk souring our relations with the oil states, it is said.

    OK, it’s a tenuous connection, but I’ll use it to raise the subject of Prince Charles’ circumcision in 1948 by Rabbi Jacob Snowman, M.D., who was the official Mohel (ritual circumciser) of the London Jewish community. It’s always struck me as a peculiarly meaningful act which the official explanation – if you want something done, get an expert – doesn’t really cover. I am at a loss, though, to suggest what that meaning may be. Can anybody here suggest a plausible explanation as to why the ‘Defender of the Faith and Supreme Governor of the Church of England’ should have her son circumcised in such a manner?

  242. Seems they’re still talking about the snip in The Jewish Chronicle

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/londoners-diary/circumcision-decision-will-the-royals-get-snippy-if-its-a-boy-for-kate-middleton-8381603.html

    “Charles’s wife Princess Diana was said to be opposed to the idea, and most royal observers believe she broke with 150 years of royal tradition by not having Princes William and Harry circumcised at birth.”

    Darling, Diana.

    I think it’s best to keep all your bits until you try them out. If you subsequently find you don’t need a bit then snip away.

  243. Flaming June

    17 Jul, 2013 - 5:07 pm

    Agent Cameron has fallen into line with the tobacco and alcohol industries by refusing to a) introduce plain cigarette packaging and b) minimum alcohol pricing.

    This is Alcohol Concern’s take on the latter:
    http://www.alcoholconcern.org.uk/media-centre/news/minimum-unit-pricing

    and one of his MPs on the cigarette packaging. She should know. She was a GP.
    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2013/07/sarah-wollaston-tories-are-pandering-to-election-strategists-on-plain-packaging/

  244. This is odd.

    “The body of Michael Hastings, the journalist who was killed in suspicious circumstances in a car crash last month, has reportedly been returned to his family after being cremated without their permission. The reports raise fresh questions about the crash and whether it was really an accident.”

    Apparently his wife has hired a private detective, and there is a lawyer out there somewhere with documents relating to whatever story he was working on.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6EGFJDxxME&feature=player_embedded

  245. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Jul, 2013 - 6:06 pm

    Herbie; He was burned pretty badly. Are you sure they burned him, again? It would be outrageous since toxicology could still have been performed independently, which is the only way I would trust the results of an autopsy done by LA coroner.

  246. Ben

    Cremation is a much more substantial burning than that achieved in a car fire or even an explosion.

  247. Ben,

    Here’s a rare mainstream media link which also says body was cremated against family wishes and has some more interesting details

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5raJDwJv97E

  248. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Jul, 2013 - 6:22 pm

    I see I should revisit my free-speech metaphor.

    Just as freedom doesn’t mean ‘do whatever you want’, no matter how it adversely affects others, is not freedom. True freedom implies some responsibility in the actions of individuals.

    So too, free-speech is not an absolute. There are proscribed behaviors in order to qualify.

    That is all. Carry on.

  249. Shir Hever argues that the latest sanctions by the EU against outfits operating in the Occupied Territories are a result of the EU’s desire to distance itself from Israel’s crimes against humanity.

    This is much bigger than BDS.

    http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=10445

  250. Ben, I normally wouldn’t quote GLP forum but as one anonymous contributor put it

    So let me get this straight. A very well respected journalist was working on his “biggest story yet” about the NSA. He then became paranoid and said he was going into hiding because he was being followed. He then talks to a lawyer and tells his coworkers not to talk to the FBI. Then his car goes through at least 2 intersections at a very high rate of speed and crashes, bursting into flames. There are no skid marks. Then the coroner cremates the body against the family’s wishes. Then a local reporter interviews the family and is threatened? Just making sure I’m clear so far.

    To which someone has replied

    Yes, you are quite clear and let me translate the whole thing down into three words:

    AMERICA IS DEAD

    Then the thread got unpinned from the front page immediately after that.

  251. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Jul, 2013 - 6:33 pm

    Thanks Herbie and AlcAnon.

    I wonder why the family, including the journo widow, would not be crying from the rooftops.

    I hope they’re working on their own case under the radar, but I sure have questions for all of them.

  252. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Jul, 2013 - 6:35 pm

    I lurk at GLP just to pick up tidbits. Sometimes they say something important.

  253. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Jul, 2013 - 6:49 pm

    I’m naive enough to think LATimes might respond to this Hastings business, so I emailed them a tip.

    We’ll see….

  254. Shir Hever with a wonderful deconstruction of Israel’s increasingly desperate efforts to cast critics of its crimes against humanity as anti-semitic.

    Mentions our hasbara chums, and watch out for Mossad too:

    http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=10276

  255. Dreoilin
    17 Jul, 2013 – 3:05 pm
    ‘In fairness, if Habbabkuk told Mary to, “take your blue pill before you watch this delightful response”, all hell would break loose.’

    +1 Dreoilin for fairness, lateral thinking and straight-on objectivity — not much of it around. They’re all busy forming cliques, to what end i don’t know.

    There’s also another odd dimension about dragging Sophia into it, which she never minded:

    Nevermind
    17 Jul, 2013 – 2:32 pm
    “Habby, wisely listen to Sophia and take your blue pill before you watch this delightful response.”

    Has Sophia said this previously or is Nevermind using Sophia’s shoulders to fire off?

    Ever so subtle, but i wonder why? Is this lonely Nevermind’s (who can’t seem to take off for his holiday despite several threats) way of cosying up to, and taking advantage of, the little pre-pubescent Sophia? If so it seems to be working.

    Also, wonder why Nevermind was bristling at being called a failed-petty-politician, when he has self-declared all these facts here for himself?

  256. Ben this gets curiouser and curiouser. Please keep us posted.

  257. Sofia, “To me they seem to sit badly with continual advice about deep stuff.”

    You’ve obviously completely got it wrong. Far be it from me to give you free advice. I am here to share my observations and discuss. I noted that you haven’t picked up on any debate about the ‘deep stuff’ despite your initial expressed interest. All in good time.

    Meantime, carry on with your memorisation of ‘narratives’ and don’t forget to recite them daily here. We’ll see daily how far you get with them and what difference it makes.

  258. In other news

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/491408/20130717/neo-nazi-werewolf-cell-police-raids-homes.htm

    Neo-Nazi Werewolf Cell: Police Raid Homes in Germany, Netherlands and Switzerland

    Police in Germany, the Netherlands and Switzerland have raided the homes and offices of an underground Nazi-style “Werewolf” terrorist group suspected of plotting to overthrow the German government.

    In Germany, 50 police officers targeted six people in Hannover and Hamburg but no arrests were made, said the federal prosecutor.

    “The group’s objective was apparently to overthrow the political system of the Federal Republic of Germany,” the prosecutor said.

    …The Werewolf raids came after Norwegian black metal musician Kristian “Varg” Vikernes, who had links to mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik, was arrested in France on suspicion he was preparing a major terrorist attack.

  259. Flaming June

    17 Jul, 2013 - 7:47 pm

    Good one to Jon Snow from Ed Murray on Medialens.

    Snowmail: “Taliban letter to schoolgirl Malala: Why we shot you…”…short email to 6 Pilgers
    Posted by Ed on July 17, 2013, 7:33 pm

    Mr Snow,
    In today’s “Snowmail”, you say “Malala has been supported by Gordon Brown and his wife Sarah. I will be talking to the former prime minister later in the programme.”

    In the interests of balance and perspective, will you be asking the former prime minister about the support he and Sarah are giving to the untold thousands of children who were shot, maimed and traumatised during the illegal invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, invasions that he facilitated and bankrolled as Chancellor Of The Exchequer under Tony Blair?

    Ed Murray

    (I can’t remember why Snow is called 6 Pilgers on the MLMB)

  260. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Jul, 2013 - 7:49 pm

    Pretty good analysis of the crash. “Calculated that for the engine (tranny) to go 130 ft the car would have to be traveling 250 mph’ and how did it fly THROUGH the tree?

    http://farganne.wordpress.com/2013/06/28/two-car-bombs-at-the-hastings-crash-the-evidence/

  261. “(I can’t remember why Snow is called 6 Pilgers on the MLMB)”

    Michael White said that Jon Snow was worth six of Jon Pilger.

    Medialensers now call Snow 6 Pilgers in ironic tribute. They sometimes use it in emails to Snow and you can see him getting rattled.

    Michael White is of course a complete plonker too.

  262. Thanks for that, Ben.

    It’s great that Villager is so interested in this story. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen Villager discuss anything of substance before.

  263. True for the most part our definitions of ‘substance’ are markedly different. Carry on with your great change-the world-campaign and let me know how you get on.

  264. Its Zen Koan time again:-

    Was Mr Cause n Effect more SILENT than the Pope of Rome during Rwanda genocide or during WW2?

    All answers to be submitted to Rwanda Embassy as they are at it AGAIN.

  265. “our definitions of ‘substance’ are markedly different”

    Absolutely. Your definition seems only to include discussion of some posters and sucking up to others.

    Be sure and let me know how you get on with that, eh.

  266. Flaming June

    17 Jul, 2013 - 8:21 pm

    Wow! There’s money in them thar Krishnamurti hills!

    KRISHNAMURTI FOUNDATION TRUST LTD Charity NO 312865
    Activities

    TO ADVANCE THE EDUCATION OF THE PUBLIC IN PHILOSOPHY, SOCIOLOGY, PSYCHOLOGY AND COMPARATIVE RELIGION AND IN PARTICULAR TO PROMOTE IN THOSE FIELDS THE STUDY OF THE TEACHINGS OF JIDDU KRISHNAMURTI.

    Income £2,136,795
    Spending £1,791,660

    http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/find-charities/

    And there’s even a handy branch in Israel.
    Krishnamurti Committee Israel

    Avraham Jacoby
    Shear Iashoov St No 3/14
    Ramat Gan 52276
    ISRAEL
    Phone: +972 0545608017
    Email: jacobya@azrieli.com
    go to website…

    Ramat Gan is a settlement near Tel Aviv. Centre of the diamond industry etc.

    To think I initially fell for the stuff.

  267. Ben,

    I don’t buy that analysis. I think the car hit a fire hydrant before it hit the palm tree. Transmission may have been ripped off when it drove over the hydrant then continued its own way at high speed. Hydrant could be seen gushing in earliest videos before any fire engines arrived. I am >90% certain he hit the hydrant first anyway, at least based based on early video at scene.

  268. Herbie i shan’t gratify you with your pathetic point scoring tactics. You were warned by Habby yesterday and put on the mat for Craig’s words of standards he expects.

    ” and sucking up to others.”

    Put up your examples…

  269. [Mod/Jon: please avoid the word "bigot", thanks. Post removed since it was mainly a personal attack.]

  270. “And there’s even a handy branch in Israel …
    Ramat Gan is a settlement near Tel Aviv. Centre of the diamond industry etc.
    To think I initially fell for the stuff.”

    I don’t know what that means, Mary, but maybe you’d read up on this:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiddu_Krishnamurti

    (A member of my family tends to quote Krishnamurti too. Feck all to do with Israel.)

  271. Sofia Kibo Noh

    17 Jul, 2013 - 8:52 pm

    @Villager. 7 35pm

    “I am here to share my observations and discuss.”

    Is that why you regularly post here giving us impenetrable interpretations of the message of your spiritual teacher. You tell us how you’ve analysed our ignorance and faults, and hand out disrespectful judgements, often using pretty intemperate language.

    It’s your business who you choose to believe and follow. Also it’s up to you how you conduct your inner journey and what judgements you form, however low, of other posters here.

    But isn’t the point of posting on comment threads to share information and test and challenge opinions, outlooks and narratives? Isn’t it good to see other styles and takes on things and also have a bit of banter?

    Why are you wasting your time pronouncing public judgements on the perceived weaknesses of other posters when, by your own admission, you believe you would be better occupied using your precious time on the important inner work?

    Why do you visit here at all when it gets you so wound-up and uncentred?

    If a poster comments on the styles and personalities of other posters, surely it’s ok to challenge them with the occasional bit of teasing? We can all tell the difference between banter and bullying.

    What about the issues?

    How do you think the growing police state in the UK can be rolled back for example?

    Why, do you think when people like David Kelly or Michael Hastings die unusual deaths, after telling their friends and colleagues that they are worried for their safety, there are so many odd circumstances?

    And then there is always 65years of the disaster being inflicted on the Palestinian people. How does a globally connected communtiy find a way to bring a just resolution to this mess?

    Let’s be honest, our posting faults are really not that important in the great scheme of things and we can all go on working things out for ourselves with whatever teachers and companions we choose.

    Why not go easy on the fractious stuff?

  272. Sofia, i don’t know what the word spiritual means. I don’t do interpretations. The stuff is there to read verbatim. If you ask me a question i will reply based on who i am not some interpretations.

    Don’t worry about me being wound-up — i don’t. Don’t misinterpret my observations as springing from being wound-up. All relationships/communication are mirrors and yes we learn from each other, but that does not mean i have to submit to your test.

    Btw you didn’t have a problem with the Nevermind firing at Habby about blue pills off your shoulder. Is this what passes for camaraderie and Neverminds rants about the stray cat for humour around here?

    I watch keenly how you comrades-in-arms are going to make one gitmo of a difference to this conflicted world.

    http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/krishnamurti-teachings/view-video/can-we-together-create-a-good-society-full-version.php

  273. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Jul, 2013 - 9:04 pm

    AlcAnon; You saw the data for 250 mph for the engine to rest 130 ft away? If it was the hydrant first causing the drivetrain to separate, how much faster would the car need to be travelling?

  274. Flaming June

    ““And there’s even a handy branch in Israel …
    Ramat Gan is a settlement near Tel Aviv. Centre of the diamond industry etc.
    To think I initially fell for the stuff.”

    Just wonder if there are any human beings living in Ramat Gan? Sorry for the simplicity of the question.

    PS this am you wrote me that you didn’t want me to mention your name or engage you? What happened? Are you missing Habbabkuk’s attentions?

  275. Flaming June

    17 Jul, 2013 - 9:13 pm

    No way. Why did you have a dig at me at 7.25pm is the question? It’s like having someone talk about you behind your back. Not very Krishnamurti of you.

  276. Sofia Kibo Noh

    17 Jul, 2013 - 9:15 pm

    @Villager.9 04pm

    “Btw you didn’t have a problem with the Nevermind firing at Habby about blue pills off your shoulder.”

    You use interesting imagery to describe what seems to me to be a little light-hearted teasing.

    Let’s talk about the real issues now.

  277. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    17 Jul, 2013 - 9:18 pm

    Flaming Mary’s shameful post at 20h21 on the charity “Krishnamurti Foundation Trust” has already received a well-made and justifies rebuke from Dreoilin at 20h51, and therefore I shall not add a further rebuke but confine myself to the following question :

    does Flaming Mary now disapprove of the Krishnamurti Foundation Trust because of its over-£2 million income and around-£1,7 million expenditure, or because it has a branch in Israel?

  278. [Mod/Jon: removed post made exclusively for personal attacks. Please stay on whatever the topic is]

  279. I’m very glad Craig has come through his ordeal and is feeling better. Good health, Craig!

  280. Ben,

    It’s not the entire engine + transmission that travelled that distance. It’s just the transmission. At least on the photos I’ve seen.

  281. Yes Sofia it was very interesting that he dragged your name in to make it your recommendation. You didn’t seem to object. I told you thismorning your apology to Habby was insincere. Do you still deny it?

  282. Flaming June

    17 Jul, 2013 - 9:30 pm

    Good piece here on the hypocrisy of Ann Clywdd.

    UK Foreign Secretary Supports Prosecution of War Crimes
    “Whoever they are.”
    by Felicity Arbuthnot / July 17th, 2013

    http://dissidentvoice.org/2013/07/uk-foreign-secretary-supports-prosecution-of-war-crimes/

    Note that Hague omits any mention of the prosecution of Israeli war criminals. They have of course been given immunity from prosecution under changes to universal jurisdiction by his government when they sneaked the amendment to the Police Reform Act.

    CFoI crowing from the rooftops here.
    http://www2.cfoi.co.uk/Campaigns/UniversalJurisdiction/

    Almog cancelled. Good. Gantz came. Bad.

    From the News for Justice for Palestinians website.
    UK grants immunity for one IDF general; another stays at home
    This posting has these items:
    1) Times of Israel: IDF chief visits UK for first time in a decade ;
    2) Ynet news: IDF chief Gantz to visit London ;
    3) PCHR: Suspected War Criminal Lt. General Gantz Offered ‘Special Mission’ Immunity Before Visit to the UK, July 2nd, 2013;
    4) Ha’aretz: Fear of arrest still prevents Israeli officials from visiting Britain Almog cancels, May 2013;
    5) BBC: Police feared ‘airport stand-off’, a 2008 attempt by Maj-Gen Almog to enter the UK;
    6) Ministry of Justice; Universal Jurisdiction, Government briefing on change in law

    http://jfjfp.com/?p=45384

  283. “Flaming June
    17 Jul, 2013 – 9:13 pm
    No way. Why did you have a dig at me at 7.25pm is the question? It’s like having someone talk about you behind your back. Not very Krishnamurti of you.”

    First i am no more K’s alter ego than i see you as Arafat’s alter ego. So i have no idea of what “Not very Krishnamurti of you”
    means. Anyway you declared you nearly fell for the stuff so its not a very meaningful statement is it?

    I’ll answer your question about the dig if you first tell me, in your opinion are there any human beings at all in Israel or in that suburb mentioned above? Plus Habby’s pertinent questions please.

  284. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    17 Jul, 2013 - 9:41 pm

    @ Herbie

    Good to see that you’re up and about and again posting on the UK constitution and the Monarchy.

    This gives me the occasion to revert to your post of yesterday, which I reproduce hereafter for readers’ ease of reference :

    “There are two answers to Britain’s recurrent problem in having a constitutional setup that almost always produces an elective dictatorship.

    1. Abolish the monarchy and elect an executive president with real power.

    2. Strengthen parliament and make the electoral system more representative of the people.

    2. is what’s normally proposed these days, but they don’t ever seem to get around to it.

    1. is easier. You just need media to work their Diana magic again.”
    ____________

    Just to help me understand your “answer” No 1 a little better: as an answer to the problem of the “elective dictatorship” (an all-powerful executive arising out of the legislature and against which the legislature can do little)… you are suggesting the abolition of the Monarchy, which has little legislative and no executive power, and its replacement by an “executive” President with “real” power??

    Glad if you could explain this rather puzzling statement.

    Thank you!

  285. “does Flaming Mary now disapprove of the Krishnamurti Foundation Trust because of its over-£2 million income and around-£1,7 million expenditure, or because it has a branch in Israel?”

    And that would include an excellent boarding school, not far from London called Brockwood Park where they tailor education to raise a new kind of human being with heightened levels of awareness. If i am not mistaken Dr David Bohm was a trustee,

    http://brockwood.org.uk

  286. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Jul, 2013 - 10:08 pm

    I have relatives both by blood and marriage. Some of them I avoid because arguments arise. When I have to be around them, I studiously avoid talking with them about anything other than the weather or health matters. Isn’t that better than spoiling gatherings for others? Enquiring minds ask those questions.

  287. Sofia

    “And then there is always 65years of the disaster being inflicted on the Palestinian people. How does a globally connected communtiy find a way to bring a just resolution to this mess?”

    I don’t know what you mean by a globally connected community in this context, but why don’t you tell us how we will ”
    find a way to bring a just resolution to this mess?”

  288. Ben, thats a sane response and healthy pragmatic approach. Because of my deep appreciation of ayurveda, a science based holistic approach, i even tend to avoid discussing health.

    But Flaming Mary seems to have sought me out from across the other side of the room. I had predicted it’d be Hotter than July. We’ll see if she has rather more than clerical input to K’s UK charity or why their is a branch in Israel! LOL. With this level of what passes for activism today what hope can we have?

  289. And as there seems to be a lot of confusion in various forums and in the media about the Washington/UCSD research on car hacking. I have seen it frequently stated that the university researchers needed to physically compromise the car and attach a device before remote control was possible. That was the subject of their earlier 2010 paper. Their 2011 paper proved that they did not need physical access. They could compromise the car by numerous methods including bluetooth , cellular, car-hifi (infected MP3s, infected CDs) etc. Once compromised and new server code loaded an attack could be initiated simply at a suitable later time via bluetooth or incoming phone call.

    No access to physical car electronics needed.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHfOziIwXic
    http://www.autosec.org/pubs/cars-usenixsec2011.pdf

  290. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    17 Jul, 2013 - 10:29 pm

    Flaming June’s post at 21h30 on the subject of Universal Jurisdiction and the visit to the UK of Israeli Chief of Staff Gantz includes the following :

    “Note that Hague omits any mention of the prosecution of Israeli war criminals. They have of course been given immunity from prosecution under changes to universal jurisdiction by his government when they sneaked the amendment to the Police Reform Act.”
    _______________

    This statement is inaccurate and misleading and therefore requires correction by a re-statement of the FACTS. These are as follows:

    1/. The UK’s “Universal Jurisdiction” legislation provided before its amendment – and still provides, subsequent to its amendment, that anyone (ie, individuals or groups) can apply to the UK courts for an arrest warrant to ensure that those accused of certain crimes committed abroad(notably war crimes specified in the UK’s Geneva Conventions Act (1957), torture and hostage-taking) face justice in the UK, provided of course that those so accused find themselves in territories under UK jurisdiction.

    2/. The change introduced by the Police Reform Act to which Flaming June refers requires that the consent of the Director of Public Prosecutions is now required before such an arrest warrant is issued in Universal Jurisdiction cases brought by individuals or groups.

    (To be noted that the DPP is a civil servant; the original intention of the govt was that the Attorney General’s – a politician and member of the govt – consent should be required).

    The objective of this change was to prevent abuse by individuals or groups seeking to make a political statement or to cause embarassment.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~

    The above should make it clear that it is misleading and inaccurate to state, as Flaming June does, that the change gives blanket immunity from prosecution under the UK’s Universal Jurisdiction legislation to “Israeli war criminals”.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Flaming June is conflating this change with the granting of “Special Mission” status to General Gantz’s visit to the UK. This is a specific prerogative of the govt and what it means, in practice, is that the govt has barred the DPP from giving consent to prosecute should an individual or group attempt to seek an arrest warrant against General Gantz.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I of course stand willing to be corrected by Flaming June should any of the above be factually wrong.

  291. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    17 Jul, 2013 - 10:34 pm

    Sorry, one line of my post should have read as follows :

    “..that the govt has barred the DPP from giving consent to THE ISSUING OF AN ARREST WARRANT should an individual or group attempt…etc”

  292. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    17 Jul, 2013 - 10:38 pm

    @ Ben (22h08)

    A nice one, Ben, but we are not in a socail gathering with friends or relatives, are we.

    Furthermore, your plea for “dissidents” to keep silent amounts to saying that certain posters should be able to say whatever they like without running to risk of being questioned or contradicted, doesn’t it.

    Stiff upper lip and bite on your tongue, huh? It’s just tosh.

  293. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Jul, 2013 - 10:46 pm

    I made no such plea, so perhaps you should check the barmymeter. You can rattle on all day and all night. It matters not a wit to me, but then you know that already. You move on to greener pastures when the milk goes sour, unless you can get a self-satisfying rise from someone, anyone.

  294. Yikes you lot, giving me work to do! Again, if squabbling could be avoided, that’d be grand. Perhaps if people see their name taken in vain in some way, if it is just a minor swipe, just ignore it. I appreciate it’s hard to do, but please rise above.

    One thing that might be worth consideration is this. If the topic is, say, alleged war criminals and their prosecution, write several paragraphs about what you think about it, possibly including the practicality of one approach or another. Have a discursive approach in your discourse, but, of course, please do not insist that one person or another answer you. Excessive focus on one person is discouraged, still.

    G’night all.

  295. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Jul, 2013 - 10:53 pm

    ” if it is just a minor swipe, just ignore it.”

    Balsam in Gilead, Jon. Thanks. You may have saved me from the tall weeds of acrimony.

  296. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    17 Jul, 2013 - 10:59 pm

    @ Ben Franklin (22h46)

    “I made no such plea,”

    ______________

    So what did you mean by (at 22h08)

    “I studiously avoid talking with them about anything other than the weather or health matters…” ?

  297. Habby asks

    “Just to help me understand your “answer” No 1 a little better: as an answer to the problem of the “elective dictatorship” (an all-powerful executive arising out of the legislature and against which the legislature can do little)… you are suggesting the abolition of the Monarchy, which has little legislative and no executive power, and its replacement by an “executive” President with “real” power??

    Glad if you could explain this rather puzzling statement.”

    It’s not puzzling so long as you understand the issues and aren’t fetishistic about the elements making up the constitution. I understand many are led to such views by our poor media, but still.

    You see, it’s all about balances between.

    The current elective dictatorship problem is produced by having an executive in parliament, which also controls parliament.

    So if you remove the executive from parliament and elect it directly, then parliament can hold this external exectutive to account, they each having their own idependent mandate and indeed constitutional role.

    dferstand many are led to such views by our poor media

  298. resident dissident

    17 Jul, 2013 - 11:05 pm

    There is a good chance tomorrow that courts in Kirov will sentence Alexei Navalny, the Russian blogger and whistleblower on corruption in Russia, to a prison sentence on what looks very much like a manufactured corruption charge. Alexei has not sought to run away from Russia and it is reported that he will be taking spare clothed to the court tomorrow in case the worst happens.

    I suspect that there is also a good chance that the Russian authorities will also try and provide some cover for their prosecution of Alexei Navalny by announcing their granting of asylum to Edward Snowden.

    Alexei is a very brave and courageous person who also runs a Russian version of Wikileaks – which unlike Wikileaks which does not have any readily accesible leaks on its website relating to Russia dated after 2008 – contains many leaks in respect of corruption within Russia. Any true believers in liberty and freedom should be making their protests against the treatment of Alexei Navalny very clear and loud at this critical time.

    The silence coming from Wikileaks and the Assangistas on the treatment of Alexei Navalny is I’m afraid pretty deafening. Their “human rights” conference last week in Moscow said precious little about human rights in Russia and the panel even included Russian lawyers who had acted for the State in their attacks on non govermental organisations which are currently the focus of attack from the Russian authorities because they spout ideas and take actions that do not fit with the prevailing government ideology. That Assange (or his “independent” production company) receive regular payments from the state controlled Russia Today is also pretty well documented.

    It has been said by Luke Harding in his excellent book “Mafia State” that one of the best ways to understand Putin and the Russian government is by reading the novels of Mario Puzo. Those who understand the Russian government will know it is very unlikely that they will have granted favours to Assange and Snowden (who I believe has been very badly advised by Wikileaks in going to first China and than Russia) without wanting something in return.

  299. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    17 Jul, 2013 - 11:07 pm

    @ Jon

    Thank you for your comments. However : when someone posts misleading and/or wrong information I think you will agree that others have the perfect right – even the duty – to correct it?

    Moreover : I believe I have the perfect right to identify the poster to whom I’m responding on the above grounds. Of people object to being shown up they should take more care about what they write.

    And finally, I didn’t insist that Flaming June should reply – I invited her to correct me if I had got something wrong in my factual correction.

    Good night.

  300. “And that would include an excellent boarding school, not far from London called Brockwood Park where they tailor education to raise a new kind of human being with heightened levels of awareness”

    Now. Where have we heard that before.

    Leni…….it’s your closeup!

  301. Those of you with ins to the palace, would you ask Kate to push harder. A royal birth is the only event, short of an large asteroid hitting NYC, that can save us from endless jabbering about Martin/Zimmerman.

  302. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    17 Jul, 2013 - 11:17 pm

    @ Herbie (23h02)

    OK, thanks for that.

    This implies, I suppose, that you think the Ministers should also not be part of the legislature but chosen by the “President” (or directly elected like the President)? The US model, in other words?

  303. My attention was caught by this story in ‘Spiegel Online’ about Jimmy Carter saying “America has no functioning democracy,” which is quite a statement for an ex-pres.
    Here’s the Google translated website:
    http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiegel.de%2Fpolitik%2Fausland%2Fnsa-affaere-jimmy-carter-kritisiert-usa-a-911589.html&act=url

    But then I noticed that Carter said it in a speech “at a meeting of the ‘Atlantic Bridge’ in Atlanta,” and that reminded me of our old friend Adam Werritty, who was receiving funding at taxpayers’ expense to run a charity called ‘Atlantic Bridge’ founded by his, er, colleague Liam Fox, and whose aim seemed to be to promote the ‘common interests’ of dodgy corporations in the UK and USA. “Following criticism by regulators that the charity was too politically oriented to be eligible for charitable status, the UK wing disbanded in September 2011″ [Wikipedia].

    Looks like the US end of the operation is still going strong, but given the interests it promotes, eg Philip Morris, Texaco and McDonalds, one has to wonder if it’s a likely platform for a genuine attack on the credibilty of US democracy, or perhaps a vehicle to enhance his credibility in advance of some double-dealing statesmanship?

    I’ve never been fully convinced by his ‘efforts’ on behalf of Palestine. I’m keeping my eye on you, Mr Carter.

  304. “No access to physical car electronics needed.”

    And no reason whatsoever it would be avoided.

    I honestly don’t believe the black hats would choose a very difficult unreliable method over a simple sure fire one.

  305. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Jul, 2013 - 11:53 pm

    “I honestly don’t believe the black hats would choose a very difficult unreliable method over a simple sure fire one”

    I’m not sure I would dismiss it out of hand, but it does seem to be a bridge too far for exacting an outcome. There are many other ways to do him in which would still leave a reasonable doubt as to foul play. They are risk-averse.

    Now, if you’re talking the Men in Black…..

  306. A Node, in the original German it said “Atlantik-Brücke”

    http://www.atlantik-bruecke.org/eng/about-us/

    I remain a Carter fan.

  307. Fred, I’ve no really strong belief that the car was hacked. I think it plausible.

  308. Fred: “I honestly don’t believe the black hats would choose a very difficult unreliable method over a simple sure fire one”

    Those academics didn’t seem to consider it too difficult.

    Also it’s worth remembering that the links AlcAnon supplied [thanks] refer to an analysis done in 2011. We can reasonably speculate that any government agency with an interest in the potential of such hacking may well have had a head start over the researchers timewise, maybe access to the source code of various ECU ‘widgets’, possibly even an input into said code, and a further two years developing their techniques. Not to mention a vastly huger research budget.

    Given what those geeks had achieved by 2011 with very limited resources in a short time frame, I think it quite plausible that remote wireless car-hacking is available to the ‘black hats.’

  309. You’ re right, AlcAnon, Atlantik-Brücke isn’t Atlantic Bridge. However, a look at its history doesn’t re-assure me that Atlantik-Brücke is any more likely to sponor attacks on the USA’s democratic credentials than Atlantic bridge …

    “Eric M. Warburg (founder of the firm currently known as Warburg Pincus) was one of the founders of Atlantik-Brücke, together with legendary editor Marion Gräfin Dönhoff, Chancellor of Germany Helmut Schmidt and other leading Hamburg citizens. In those Cold War times, the U.S. was looking for influence on Germany. The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) probably gave the idea for founding the Atlantik-Brücke; Eric M. Warburg was a friend and consultant for John J. McCloy, Chairman of the Council on Foreign Relations and President of the World Bank. The Atlantik-Brücke is the German counterpart for the U.S. based American Council on Germany (members include US diplomats Richard Holbrooke and Henry Kissinger).
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantik-Br%C3%BCcke.”

    I’ll bear your opinion of Carter in mind, but I’m still keeping my beady eye on him.

  310. Late night entertainment

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLBkYEzl700

    Do not analyze too deeply :-)

  311. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    18 Jul, 2013 - 1:52 am

    Ok…so this is a new war….a generational battle of the bands

    Take THAT !!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5u8aARWAv4

  312. Ben,

    I recall chatting to a close relative of Jack Bruce who was apparently tripping on LSD at the time and claimed to be chasing a flying coat. As far as I was concerned he was wearing the coat.

    I wasn’t tripping as far as I recall but my memory is a bit shot.

    Ewige Blumenkraft!”

  313. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    18 Jul, 2013 - 2:22 am

    AlcAnon;

    Kinda doubt it, unless it was just the afterglow from previously. But that’s judging it from my pov.

    But if he was, he’s the first musician I’ve ever heard who sounded good on L. Heh, I remember the Hollywood Bowl in say ’69(?) Santana opened and the next group was Youngbloods who I heard later were so freaked on some sunshine shit that they needed to come down and guzzled Rye whiskey. It wasn’t pretty.

    But Janis brought it back with her Kozmic Blues. Santana stole the show. The whole show. He was that good.

  314. Villager 17 Jul, 2013 – 12:01 am

    “What did the Flower-children bring us other than a popularisation of drugs?”

    Isn’t that enough? It was either that or world peace ….
    ….world peace would have been nice, but would I swap ….?

  315. Ben,

    i wasn’t suggesting your Cream Link was particularly LSD influenced. Just a related personal anecdote.

    Anyway goodnight :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WANNqr-vcx018

  316. Oh I see Ben. You misunderstand. Jack Bruce wasn’t tripping – the relative I was talking to was. I’m not important enough to have been talking to Jack Bruce himself obviously.

  317. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    18 Jul, 2013 - 2:45 am

    No problems. It’s nice to have another late night jock spinning discs.

  318. Oh and I don;t think people chasing imaginary coats around buildings are typical of LSD trips either. Which is probably why it stuck in my mind. These things do…

  319. “Also it’s worth remembering that the links AlcAnon supplied [thanks] refer to an analysis done in 2011. We can reasonably speculate that any government agency with an interest in the potential of such hacking may well have had a head start over the researchers timewise, maybe access to the source code of various ECU ‘widgets’, possibly even an input into said code, and a further two years developing their techniques. Not to mention a vastly huger research budget.”

    Then again they could have just used Semtex and a timer then started a rumour on the internet about remote hacking ECUs so that anyone who suggests he was hit is immediately classed as a tin foil hat wearing nutter.

  320. We’re not dead yet, but Dr David Kelly is. In fact ten years ago today his body was found in a wood on Harrowdown Hill. There was never a completed inquest into his death and there are many unanswered questions about why the proper legal process was not followed.

    A peaceful vigil is to be held outside the Royal Courts of Justice between 2-4 pm where people will be wearing gags as a protest against the truth having been gagged. Allow my indulgence with this article which raises some of the problems connected with the case. I should be obliged if people would share the article. Thanks. Must go. Got a coach to catch.

    http://newsjunkiepost.com/2013/07/17/iraq-war-lies-and-dr-david-kellys-mysterious-death/

  321. Flaming June

    18 Jul, 2013 - 8:01 am

    Good John.

    This is one of the best articles I have read on the matter.

    David Kelly, ten years on: A spectacular failure of accountability
    Ironically, those calling for an inquest into David Kelly’s death – ten years on today – base their arguments on precisely the values held so dear by professional journalists: the need for a full, impartial appraisal of the facts without fear or favour.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/uk-politics/2013/07/david-kelly-ten-years-spectacular-failure-accountability

  322. Flaming June

    18 Jul, 2013 - 8:05 am

    Whilst we continue to kill other humans with missiles from drones controlled via computer screens at RAF Waddington, these good people are facing charges following a protest there.

    Six arrested after drone protest at RAF Waddington
    UAVs are remotely controlled from the MoD base for use in Afghanistan against the Taliban
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/04/six-arrested-drone-protest-raf-waddington

    ‘Supporters of the six, who were arrested on suspicion of criminal damage, claim that police later visited homes in London and elsewhere and seized computer equipment.’

  323. Flaming June

    18 Jul, 2013 - 8:13 am

    Their trial takes place on 7th October.

    ‘The trial date of a Mansfield vicar accused of criminal damage after a break-in at RAF Waddington has been set.

    Rev Keith Hebden (pictured), based at St Peter’s, appeared before magistrates in Lincolnshire on 4th July along with five other defendants.

    The group, who claim they were staging a protest against the use of unmanned drone aircraft in Afghanistan, will go on trial on 7th October at Lincoln Magistrates’ Court.

    The group told the court that while they accepted they were on the Lincolnshire base without permission, they have pleaded not guilty to the charge on the grounds that they had “a lawful reason for being there to protest against the killing of civilians through the use of drones operated from RAF Waddington”.

    The other accused are Susan Clarkso (66) of Bath Street, Oxford, Christopher Cole (49), of Wilkins road, Oxford, Henrietta Cullinan (51), of Trumans Road, London, Martin Newell (45) of Mattison Road, London and Penelope Walker (62) of Gutham Street, Leicester.’

    http://www.chad.co.uk/news/crime/trial-date-set-for-mansfield-vicar-1-5834115

  324. Villager…OK, it’s a tenuous connection, but I’ll use it to raise the subject of Prince Charles’ circumcision….

    Seems Queen Victoria believed she was descended from King David as well as a procession of robber despots, and instituted the practice of circumcision of male heirs – it used to be pretty routine for plebs in the C of E too. Yet another item of traditional pageantry which is no more than 200 years old, (though it may actually have started with George 1.)

    I’d imagine that a descendant of King David gets a prosemitic snip as a matter of course, regardless of being the head of an heretical sect. Only Charles’s kosher flaying seems to have been public, however.

    There is probably no connection with the data which suggests that circumcised men are less prone to STD’s, although the extramarital tendencies of the present and several former heirs to the throne might suggest a practical reason for trimming them.

    Prince Charles is expected to visit Israel within the next three years, according to a sub – under – flunkey at the Palace, and I am sure the morphology of his dick will be a matter of extreme interest to Netanyahu. Especially if the latter is looking for (more) highly classified military equipment.

  325. @ Komodo. The incident in Norfolk, ending up with a man being beaten up and hospitalised with a heart attack, leaving his elderly mum scared and in fear what will happen next, was apparently caused by an over due parking fine being collected by bailiffs with police protection.

    A case for the lawyers from now on. This at a time when Norfolk police has to make 20% cuts and is suffering from an increased precept of only 1.985%, poor sods, somebody in that force is clearly not spending proportionally.

  326. Komodo, that circumcision stuff wrongly addressed — not my subject. Just pointing out, excuse the pun.

    Nice day at Level 3!

  327. @Nevermind – Christ almighty. Thanks. I hope the lawyers make mincemeat of the various authorities/PFI shills involved. Not a peep about this in the local media, I looked for a long time.

  328. Sofia Kibo Noh

    18 Jul, 2013 - 12:18 pm

    @Villager.10 08pm

    Re bringing resolution to 65years of Nabka, “…why don’t you tell us how?”

    Thanks for engaging at last on an issue.

    Well, we could start with working to uphold and strengthen international law.

    Then there’s The Universal Declaration of Human Rights. 

    Keeping the issue in the spotlight and all the diverse campaigning strategies can all play a part.

    The state of Israel has also contributed by destroying any credibility it ever had.

    And of course the IDF, by focusing it’s efforts on killing unarmed civilians, is no longer fit for purpose, as it showed the world last time it invaded Lebanon and came up against people with weapons.

    So I guess that should have it all sown up by lunch time.

    I’m off to enjoy the sunshine.

  329. @Komodo, no its not Mr. Wagg, its off the radar, as you said.
    @dearest Sofia Kibo Noh
    you write:
    ‘Keeping the issue in the spotlight and all the diverse campaigning strategies can all play a part.’

    This approach by the EU seems to have had the desirable effect of waking up the Israeli cabinet. Bibi says that he now ‘questions Europe’s neutrality’.

    Well its time to commemorate Bibi’s near decade of non communications with the Palestinian side for what it is, the resolve of an ignorant, a racialist with fascist attitudes towards Palestinians, a wall builder who rather creates violence when he runs out of idea’s then to step aside and let more moderate forces shape Israel.

    His latest outburst should be enough to stop all their special trade agreements with the EU.

    http://www.expatica.com/de/news/local_news/netanyahu-says-eu-funding-move-undermines-peace-efforts_269828.html

  330. I’m thinking it would be worth keeping an eye open for Mr. Wagg, just the same, if nemesis has not already overtaken him. And very odd that the incident you described involved (presumably civilian) “bailiffs”.

    The Cory Greenwashing Environmental Trust in Britain, like the CEO of Cory Environmental (got the contract for the KL incinerator), Peter Gerstrom, is very active in the charity sector, doing stuff unfortunately necessitated by us all being in it together except the bankers, etc.

    http://www.cetb.org.uk/stories/st_helens.html?iframe=true&width=80%&height=80%

  331. In addition to the huge taxpayer assistance via PFI that firms like Cory get, there’s always a multinational money sponge in the background. In this case, EISER. It’s probable that any hidden encouragement to councillors requiring incinerators can be found here, rather than in the waste company itself.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EISER_Infrastructure

  332. doug scorgie

    18 Jul, 2013 - 8:01 pm

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)
    17 Jul, 2013 – 6:41 am

    “My questioning of la pensée unique on this blog is compared to shouting fire in a crowded theatre (and should therefore be sanctioned)?”

    “This reveals a slightly exaggerated sense of importance about this blog and a more than slightly exaggerated sense of self-importance on the part of some of the Eminences, I think.”

    HB your use of yet another uncommon term (la pensee unique) reveals not only your desire to impress (presumably because you feel inadequate) but also your inability to understand the terms and their correct usage.

  333. doug scorgie

    18 Jul, 2013 - 8:41 pm

    Flaming June
    17 Jul, 2013 – 10:33 am

    “Persecution of a young woman by Thames Valley Police.”
    “Private Eye In The Back: What Katie didn’t do”

    http://www.private-eye.co.uk/sections.php?section_link=in_the_back&issue=1344

    Mary thanks for that link; I must renew my Private Eye subscription.

    None of this comes as a surprise to me but most people in the UK, I suggest, would be sceptical about police wrongdoing (in this case or any other similar case).

    “She must have done something wrong” I hear them saying.

  334. “She must have done something wrong” I hear them saying.

    You bet, she did!

    She dated a fucking prick with plenty of attitude in a uniform .

    Although the question remains, how come a prick can wield such a power and along with his friends can rain crap on Jo Public without any let or hindrance, and pretty well free to do as they wish?

  335. Thanks for that hint Komodo, so how come EISNER is allowed to undermine British prospects abroad?
    To not support APP gas plasma resource processes in our local authorities and let US companies with a record of environmental breaches and court adjudications as long as my arm, blackmail local authorities with economic decline, should their contract be rescinded, is outrageous.

    How come EISNER infrastructure partners are dissing British know how and APP’s ground breaking prospects all over the world?

    about as unpatriotic as buying an aircraft carrier from France.

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