There is no obvious reason why the Western powers should care whether it was the friends or the family of Mohammed which took over the leadership of his movement upon his death. However there is plainly an agenda led by the USA to support the Sunnis in their spiralling regional conflict with the Shia.
This is not hard to rationalise. The ultra wealthy members of the Gulf regimes continue to act as the West’s proxies in the region and provide harbour to its neo-imperialist armed forces, while at the same time maintaining themselves a obscurantist version of Islam which would have horrified Mohammed and breaks virtually every precept of the Koran, particularly as regards treatment of women and of minority religions within their territory.
In Bahrain the large Shia majority is brutally repressed with active western collusion; in Saudi Arabia the Shia minority in the East is degraded. Iran is the great Shia bogey, and the West is so determined to maintain it as “the enemy” that they refuse the most basic diplomatic openings. The UK turned down an invitation to be represented at the inauguration of a new more moderate President and hold initial conversations. Meanwhile, Shia groups have mustered the only effective military resistance to Israeli aggression, and in Syria a Shia friendly regime is under intense pressure from the West and its Gulf allies. Peculiarly, in Iraq Western invasion resulted in the installation of a Shia regime, but that was only one of the entirely unforeseen consequences of that most stupid of invasions, and the Western response is to try to split up the country and fuel multiple insurgencies.
Meantime the CIA have now got a controlled and pro-Israeli military dictatorship back in power in Egypt, while the extraordinary complicity of the mainstream media and entire political class in the United States has never been more evident than in the acceptance that the military coup will not be designated a military coup. The manipulation of Western public opinion in the Syrian chemical weapons episode has, rarely, been too blatant to work. But events in Turkey and Egypt have shown that western public opinion is easily manipulated by the “secularist” angle. No matter how ugly political forces are – and in Turkey the Kemalists are very ugly – call them “secularist” and hide the rest, and you can attempt to topple elected governments in their favour with the full throated support of the media cheerleaders.
Last night’s vote in the Commons is welcome, but a blip. It owes more to political tribalism than to principle. Miliband and New Labour did not oppose military action, they merely wanted to be seen to be dictating the terms. As neither Tories nor Labour were prepared to accept the other’s terms for military action, the anti war minority could combine with the tribalists of each to make sure everything got defeated. Good but fortuitous.
The media are still in full war cry. Ashdown has never been so ashamed, apparently. He is not ashamed by extraordinary rendition and our torturing people. He is not ashamed of our responsibility for the death of hundreds of thousands in Iraq, with 2,000 people a day still meeting terrible deaths. He is ashamed that we don’t respond to the deaths of children by chemical weapons, we don’t really know at whose hands, by blasting to pieces a lot more children. Well, Paddy, you are a merciless fool who thinks a spiral of death is the answer, and I have never been more ashamed that I was for most of my adult life a member of the Liberal Democrats.
Ashdown did say bitterly that there was now no point in having such large armed forces. Hallelujah! The danger to the establishment that people might realise that spending more on weapons systems than on hospitals is a poor choice, is one reason this is not over. Much is at stake for the security state. Expect a mounting barrage of propaganda on the need for action in Syria. This is just the start.
Isn’t Pantsdown dead yet? What a nauseating thing he is. Someone should dig a hole for the likes of him and Kinnock.
Pantsdown’s performance as a witness at the Milosevic show trial was a perfect illustration of his self-regard which eclipses all reason.
All the same, can we please celebrate a bit? Even if Parliament did the right thing for all sorts of reasons, quite a few of them wrong on individual merits, the end result is a good one.
Gove, Fox, Hammond and Ashdown made complete twits of themselves, as did a couple of the Conservatives reading their scripts from Central Office. They look far sillier than David Cameron who put up a good fight and was adult and noble in defeat.
My “Player of the Match” was Caroline Lucas (Green MP).
Obama today looks like the emperor with no clothes. Exposed for what he is. An eloquent well educated powerless puppet in an expensive suit – sponsored by Saudi princes and manipulated by Israeli hawks to get regime change in Syria, then Iran next.
I am not convinced that Shia fascists are much to be preferred to Sunni fascists or Alawite fascists or Saudi fascists. None of them are democrats , none believe in freedom and they all discriminate against women
I think you meant 2000 people a month in Iraq Craig?
“Government sources say Ed Miliband is a ‘copper-bottomed s***’ who ‘changed his mind’ on Syria”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/government-sources-say-ed-miliband-is-a-copperbottomed-s-who-changed-his-mind-on-syria-8789496.html
Not bitter then? Milliband had no choice, he simply recognised that he would have lost along with Dave. I suspect Miliband has been in touch with members of Obama’s team over the last few days. Dave tried to be Obama’s best mate but Obama simply dosen’t like or trust the ‘fucking lightweight’, although that decription looks a bit flakey seeing the amount of lard he’s been piling on recently….
I’d agree re the fortuitous comment. If the amendment vote had been second then I suspect it might have gone through. Are amendments always voted on before the main vote?
What will it take for the Mugs un power to really open full diplomatic, open, honest,un biases diplomacy.
Old father time himself bellowing from the heavens.
Chances of that happening.
Please let peace prosper.
Thanks Craig
The source was claimed to have said: “No 10 and the Foreign Office think Miliband is a f****** c*** and a copper-bottomed s***. The French hate him now and he’s got no chance of building an alliance with the US Democratic Party.”
Sour grapes –> “he’s got no chance of building an alliance with the US Democratic Party”
If Dave can’t do it Ed can’t seems to be the message, but I think he already did. Why this Thursday? Because Obama told Dave to. Obama is well happy that the pressure to act has been wiped out overnight.
Haward
I did not intend to imply any preference between Sunni and Shia. I have none. I just am puzzled that Western governments appear to.
“As the debate hots up in Parliament about Syria, Prime Minister David Cameron says we know the regime has Chemical Weapons, as we still have the receipts from when we sold them to prove it.”
Allegedly
“Obama today looks like the emperor with no clothes. Exposed for what he is. An eloquent well educated powerless puppet in an expensive suit – sponsored by Saudi princes and manipulated by Israeli hawks to get regime change in Syria, then Iran next.”
He is no saint but he is not a G. W. Bush either. He is without doubt a politician who knows exactly what he’s doing and he’s not going to get the US involved in Syria when their is no clear obective or advantage for the US. He may throw a few cruise missiles in but he knows that it is all just for show and it is not inconceivable that he could do a deal with Russia to allow for such a limited repsonse. The Israelis have repeatedly attacked Syria with ‘unusual’ ordnance and it has had very little effect and Syria has not carried out it’s promise of retaliation. Politics is a murky old world best left to the grown ups.
It has already started with the BBC’s reports of Napalm, strange that the first time we hear of Napalm use in Syria, happens to be when the West is warmongering. I can’t wait for the US press secretary, to tell us how she “does not discuss US history” in relation to Syria.
Napalm, a.k.a. white phosphorous, as used repeatedly by Israel in Gaza. TV picture clearly show IDF planes deploying it in civilian areas, including a UN hospital, and in areas where there were no IDF troops on the ground, which makes the excuse of it’s use as a ‘battle-field smokescreen’ a complete mockery.
Presumably Assad will be saying it’s a smokescreen for his troops too. This is the probelm with ‘exceptionalism’, other people often feel entitled to be ‘exceptional’ too.
You seem to think that the coup against Morsi/Muslim Brotherhood was a bad thing when most Egyptians were for it. I don’t think you quite understand what the Muslim Brotherhood are about.
There’s a good article by Thierry Meyssan at http://www.voltairenet.org/article179909.html
in which he writes:
‘For the middle classes, Morsi was never democratically elected. Most polling stations were occupied militarily by the Muslim Brotherhood and 65% of voters abstained. This masquerade was covered by international observers sent by the United States and the European Union who supported the Brotherhood. In November, President Morsi repealed the separation of powers by prohibiting courts from challenging his decisions. Then he dissolved the Supreme Court and dismissed the Attorney General. He abrogated the Constitution and made had a new draft drawn up by a commission appointed by him, before adopting this fundamental law in a referendum boycotted by 66% of voters.’
In Libya the instability is largely due to the attempt of the Muslim Brotherhood to take over against the wishes of the majority of the population
Ruth
How do you know most Egyptians were for it? It cancelled the only democratic vote there has been. No sign of another one, is there?
The low turnout was not very different from US elections.
Back to the real world. Co-op is looking for a bailout. BofE warns that the governemnt scheme of interest free loans is reinflating the housing bubble (I thought that was the plan?) and is *threatening* the recovery (what recovery?) and the Met can’t catch criminals anymore because ‘the computer said no’. It must be a real hangover feeling after all that exciment of potential “action”.
Ukip’s full statement calling for William Hague to stand down as foreign secretary:
Following the government’s defeat in the House of Commons on intervention in Syria, UKIP calls on William Hague to resign.The foreign secretary has been a continued supporter of Britain intervening militarily in Syria, including the arming of anti-Assad ‘rebels’. In doing so he has demonstrated how utterly out of touch he is with parliament and public opinion and so should step down from his role as Britain’s chief representative on foreign affairs.
Morsi made a number of fundamental mistakes.
1. He supported the Syrian Rebels.
2. He never opened the border at Gaza as promised.
3. He immediately renaged on the very thing that got him elected in the first place; the promise that all laws would have to be approved by the judiciary.
4. He used deadly force on peaceful protesters.
Morsi was either a complete fool or a complete tool.
Anon: it’s funny that the only person who has resigned over this farce so far is the Shadow Transport Minister, and that was because Milliband voted against war! Special interest politics at it’s most bizarre.
Donald,
Whether you agree with Morsi or not he was elected. The army does not have the right to remove elected leaders because Donald – or Ruth or Thierry Masson – does not think they are very good.
Hi Craig, want to retract your statement that Ukip wants more killing of foreigners?
Hi Craig,
Yes, he was elected… you’ll like this… but so was Hitler. 🙂
The biggest fear that Egyptians have about the Muslim Bortherhood is that Egypt becomes a strict Islamic state, i.e. under Sharia.
Morsi promised that the secular judiciary would approve all Presidental laws to address this concern. When he then assumed power hand immediately started breaking these fundemnetal promises in an attempt to consolidate for himself not just power that Mubarak had but *even more* people became very concerned.
It is understandable that the Egyptians demanded him out, and the number that eventually opposed him was far greater than those that supported him. It sure looked to me like he was being shoe-horned in by Western interests with great haste.
You have to remember, anything that gets in the way of the powers that be….will be REMOVED.
“Draft Deregulation Bill: Government moves to shut down judicial supervision and criticism of DWP-Atos decision making by abolition of duty by Tribunals’ President to publish annual report”
http://blacktrianglecampaign.org/2013/08/29/draft-deregulation-bill-government-moves-to-shut-down-judicial-supervision-and-criticism-of-dwp-atos-decision-making-by-abolition-of-duty-by-tribunals-president-to-publish-annual-report/
Just one more nail being hammered in to the coffin of democracy!, step by step, bit by bit, and in so many ways!.
Donald
“The number that eventually opposed him was far greater than the number who supported him.” In which case, he would have lost the next election – that is how democracy ought to work. Unlike those who deposed him, Morsi was not intending to abolish elections. There is, however, no real evidence that your statement is true.
I should add that I don’t ascribe to this view that democracy is simply voting at elections every 5 years for a dictatorship. I think those elected have a moral duty to govern in accordance with their stated policies and election promises. If they openly break these promises they should forfeit the right to govern, in a sense that is the purpose of the “official opposition”, to act as a shadow governnment ready to assume power at anytime, who remebers the ‘vote of no confidence’? Milliband should be calling for this today.
“In which case, he would have lost the next election”
He had assumed powers that would have left him as Egypt’s next dictator. It would have been a rigged election or no election at all.
The Egyptians were conned by the media into voting for him. They recognised this imediately and acted. OK, so they are now being governed by the military but the military is at least trying to get the politicans to sort things out. The Egyptians accept the military as the lesser of two evils. I am confident that some form of democracy will emerge in Egypt purely becuase Morsi has been rejected.
“There is, however, no real evidence that your statement is true.”
http://www.dailynewsegypt.com/2013/08/27/egyptians-sentiments-towards-the-muslim-brotherhood-poll/
Napalm, a.k.a. white phosphorous* (sic)
No. Two entirely different horrors.
Wiki: Napalm B has a commonly quoted composition of 21% benzene, 33% gasoline (itself containing between 1% and 4% (estimated) benzene to raise its octane number), and 46% polystyrene. This mixture is more difficult to ignite than napalm.[4] A reliable pyrotechnic initiator, often based on thermite (for ordinary napalm) or white phosphorus (for newer compositions), has been used.[2][4] The original napalm usually burned for 15 to 30 seconds while Napalm B can burn for up to 10 minutes.[4]
Only the initiator will be phosphorus (or thermite) This isn’t what does the damage.
Napalm is banned for use against civilian populations:
International law does not prohibit the use of napalm or other incendiaries against military targets,[21] but use against civilian populations was banned by the United Nations Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons (CCW) in 1980.[22] Protocol III of the CCW restricts the use of all incendiary weapons, but a number of states have not acceded to all of the protocols of the CCW. According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), states are considered a party to the convention, which entered into force as international law in December 1983, if they ratify at least two of the five protocols. The United States, for example, is a party to the CCW but did not sign protocol III.[23]
…IOW other incendiary types may not be wholly covered by international law. Including WP smoke shells, interestingly. And see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Certain_Conventional_Weapons
*phosphorus
Donald
Good God, you really have bought the propaganda wholesale. “Yes of course this is not the reinstatement of military rule, it is merely the army working as the expression of the will of the vast majority of the people, as measured by err nothing.” How you can accuse anyone else of being brainwashed by the media when you have swallowed the Frank Gardner bullshit completely is beyond me.
“The effort to take action before UN inspectors could complete their review was highly sus, as have been the shifting claims by the Administration as to what precisely the attacks consisted of and why the officialdom is so certain Assad is the perp (for instance, early pronouncements that the toxic agent was a nerve gas or otherwise “military grade” have been questioned by experts who have studied the footage closely).”
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/08/gaius-publius-deep-state-is-the-upper-echelon-of-the-intelligence-community-running-america.html