Edward Snowden Gets Sam Adams Award

by craig on October 11, 2013 9:28 am in Uncategorized

Ray McGovern and the Sam Adams party have presented the Sam Adams award to Edward Snowden.  I am delighted.  This from Ray’s account of the event:

In brief remarks from his visitors, Snowden was reassured — first and foremost — that he need no longer be worried that nothing significant would happen as a result of his decision to risk his future by revealing documentary proof that the U.S. government was playing fast and loose with the Constitutional rights of Americans.

Even amid the government shutdown, Establishment Washington and the normally docile “mainstream media” have not been able to deflect attention from the intrusive eavesdropping that makes a mockery of the Fourth Amendment. Even Congress is showing signs of awaking from its torpor.

In the somnolent Senate, a few hardy souls have gone so far as to express displeasure at having been lied to by Director of National Intelligence James Clapper and NSA Director Keith Alexander — Clapper having formally apologized for telling the Senate Intelligence Committee eavesdropping-related things that were, in his words, “clearly erroneous” and Alexander having told now-discredited whoppers about the effectiveness of NSA’s intrusive and unconstitutional methods in combating terrorism.

Coleen Rowley, the first winner of the Sam Adams Award (2002), cited some little-known history to remind Snowden that he is in good company as a whistleblower — and not only because of previous Sam Adams honorees. She noted that in 1773, Benjamin Franklin leaked confidential information by releasing letters written by then-Lt. Governor of Massachusetts Thomas Hutchinson to Thomas Whatley, an assistant to the British Prime Minister.

The letters suggested that it was impossible for the colonists to enjoy the same rights as subjects living in England and that “an abridgement of what are called English liberties” might be necessary. The content of the letters was so damaging to the British government that Benjamin Franklin was dismissed as colonial Postmaster General and had to endure an hour-long censure from British Solicitor General Alexander Wedderburn.

There has been a determined attempt by government to justify the need to intercept everybody’s communications, all the time.  We have, yet again, had MI5 claim there are many thousand violent Islamic terrorists running around the UK, (yet somehow not managing to kill anybody).  The cry of “paedophiles” is raised, as always.  I can imagine them suggesting the entire population be shot dead, and justifying it as making sure they get the paedophiles.  The tabloids would go with that.

There still had not been a single credible claim by the mainstream media that any named individual has died, despite that contingency being trotted out all the time as the reason Snowden and Manning should not have revealed state crimes and abuse of power.  I am hopeful that, with the internet still largely free to the dissemination of information, out next massive whistleblower is only weeks away.

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  1. Good news. While this award is not necessarily a protective shield, it does provide some warning of toxicity to those in the US who want to see Snowden convicted of some serious offences to put him away in a supermax. Gaoling award winners is not a good look for self-proclaimed champions of “Freedom and Democracy”.

    Also interesting how risks of death from information revelations are supposed to be more serious than actual deaths from American misadventures.

  2. Here’s a fantastic whistleblower… Senior Counsel for the World Bank legal department
    http://kahudes.net/

  3. Well done to Edward Snowden, but his one major error was in revealing details of governments spying on each other, something we would expect them to do. Though I have no particular objection to his having done this, it does allow his opponents to paint him as a traitor. Had he stuck to NSA/GCHQ spying on ordinary people, he would have had an unanswerable case and I very much doubt anyone would have the balls to prosecute him.

  4. Yes, for all these revelations are welcome, I see no sign whatsoever that this spying apparatus will be rolled back. There is the usual piffle about reform – aka, legalising dubious policy – but no acceptance whatsoever that anyone in power has done anything wrong. It’s rather sinister actually. Now it’s all out in the open, we just have to wear it. And if it’s ethically dubious, illegal, or (in the US) unconstitutional, so what? they seem to be asking us.

    Troubling. I have been pondering anew the prevalence of CCTV cameras. I have a camera in my apartment buildings, my walk to work is covered by cameras, which are also on public transport, and in my actual work building, cameras on every floor. I am – literally – covered all day by Sauron’s all-seeing eye. This has all just been accepted with a shrug, and police PR regularly telling us how murderers get caught all the time by this surveillance, and it’s a price worth paying.

    Is it? Bad people used to get nabbed all the time, it was called police work, and it was difficult, and required training and skill, but it happened. Now? Everything is caught on CCTV, leaked to the papers pre-trial, and that’s the end of the investigation. But would these people get caught without CCTV? That’s not an easy question to answer – but I note no police bother to ask it. There is also the other question – motive. If you catch someone on CCTV, you don’t have to bother asking about motive, or proving motive, but it’s still important.

    I’m not sure. But the distant ennui, the vague indefinable sense of shame at being on-camera all day, and the troubling worries about the power of future dictatorships are serious matters, I think. And nobody in power seems to care. Indeed, as Snowden shows us, they want more, not less, of this kind of thing. A mindset that baffles me, to say the least.

  5. well done the committee for awarding Edward Snowden, well deserved. His historic actions will be seen as a turn around of trust and relations between Governments and people.

    Thanks for the link to Karen Hudes, Rich, another one of a valuable few.
    More and more the rays of sunshine will break through the fraud, the steaming gloom heaped upon humanity by banks, federal reserves, central banks and stockbroking firms gambling their way through uncertain futures.
    She deserves praise for the way she reveals whats going on.

  6. Congratulations to Edward Snowden and also for his nomination tor the Nobel Peace Prize which is announced today. In regards to that prize would like to congratulate Malala Yousafzai, 16 year-old living in Birmingham, for what she has tried to do for female education. She is the MSM favourite, promoted at every opportunity.

    However the public Guardian readers preferred Bradley Manning who was nominated Guardian Personality of the year with 70% of the vote. He is also nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize but because this is a very establishment prize, neither he nor ‘Chelsea’ Manning are likely to win it.

    I do sincerely congratulate Malala Yousafzai because with all the mass murderers like Begin, Sadat and Obama bringing disgrace to the name ‘peace prize’ she will elevate it a little.

    I couldn’t be wrong with this premature speculation could I? Answer you trolls.

  7. Data-mining at GCHQ is a complex art. Data-sets contain your activities online and may include information from communication intercepts. This information will compute to a ‘score’ similar to credit rating which determines a personal ‘threat’ to the ‘establishment’ norms.

    This endemic sur­veillance programme has in truth failed to expose any kosher British terrorist plots and British oversight laws preventing bugging are impotent. In fact the three primary UK intelligence agencies are the least accountable and most legally pro­tec­ted in any western democracy.

    The agencies are exempt from any real and meaningful oversight and are also protected against disclosure by the draconian 1989 Official Secrets Act, designed specifically to criminalise whistleblowers, as well as having a raft of legislation to suppress media reporting should such disclosures emerge.

    Applications to monitor and eavesdrop are tick-box type forms where the authorising authority receives only a summary of a summary ad infinitum for signature and that authority is under ‘pressure’ in case something literally blows up further downstream.

    In a nut-shell the intelligence complaints procedure favors the spies and the Intelligence and Security Committee in Parliament are either ignored OR LIED TO by top special cops or spooks; remember the current chair, Sir Malcolm Rifkind is the man who cleared GCHQ’s endemic data-mining as lawful and the committee is chosen by the PM on advice(ie ‘yes’ men) answerable only to the PM and the PM can vet the findings to achieve the status quo.

    Without a free WWW as ‘one’s space’ where we can all read, write, listen and discuss ideas freely and in privacy, we are all living in an Orwellian dystopia, and we are all potentially at risk from black-mail, accusations of sedition and sabotage of our minds.

  8. John, “premature speculation” is nothing to be ashamed of, everyone’s been there at least once.

  9. “OPCW has NOT been given the #NobelPeacePrize because of Syria but because of its long standing work.” – fuckin lying corrupt bastards.

  10. Surveillance – it’s big business.

    http://wikileaks.org/spyfiles3.html

    Note the concentration on cellphone detection and interception (“small base stations”). With voice recognition packages….

    There’s no need to make private conversations illegal these days. There’s no such thing.

  11. As I said on the ‘Now Sue Me’ thread, congratulations to Edward Snowden and all the previous Sam Adams Award winners.

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/10/ok-now-you-sue-me/#comment-432932

    Sam Adams – whistleblower Vietnam War http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_A._Adams

    This will go down like a lead balloon with Messrs Obama and Kerry and Gen Alexander.

    ‘The father of fugitive former US intelligence contractor Edward Snowden is in Russia to visit his son.

    Lon Snowden told journalists in Moscow he felt “extreme gratitude that my son is safe and secure and he’s free”. He later met his son, local media say.’

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24470942

  12. BrianFujisan

    11 Oct, 2013 - 2:56 pm

    Ah, Bit of great news for Whistle blowers Long overdue, well done Mr Snowden.

    Rich

    Second the heads up by Nevermind for for the link to Karen Hudes

    Mary

    i put up a link to One of your main interests – 0n the –
    OK, Now You Sue Me! Thread, Re Rodger Waters.

  13. I spy with my little eye somone begining with….”M”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/10371988/Malala-Yousafzai-didnt-win-the-Nobel-Peace-Prize.-She-didnt-need-to.html

    In other news Malala is not going to the Moon, at least not until she trains to become an astronaut, and this just in; Malala has just had her lunch. More on this breaking story as we get it.

  14. BrianFujisan

    11 Oct, 2013 - 3:15 pm

    Mark

    Looks like the Nobel Committee are are trying to hide behind the truth – Syria is exactly the reason for the OPCW award,
    And there was Putin doing more than anyone to work for Peace in the M.E.

    Gotta highlight The western Elite’s current Manoeuvres
    in the Grand Game Eh… Arseholes

    Bunch of bought over Spineless Shits in the Nobel C.

    it’s further proof that We can never expect to see see oBomber’s Prize being revoked,Or of him and the rest, Cameron, Bliar, Bush, Clinton Ect, ect, being tried for war crimes,

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5Km3hgte7c

  15. This just in:- Malala’s lunch was chicken nuggets and french fries, she said that one day she hopes all Pakistani girls we be able to eat such Western delicacies without being shot in the head by nasty intolerant religous men – like what she was, or wasn’t. She finished her meal with a strawberry milk-shake and offered a moving rendition of the often repeated chant “U S A” to assembled journalists from the world’s media, many of whom were moved to tears by her plucky script, er… spirit.

  16. Excellent news; congratulations to Edward Snowden and the Sam Adams Award judges.

    The extent to which Snowden’s actions (and by extension those of Glenn Greenwald at the Graun) are a libertarian/authoritarian litmus test of our current political elite can be shown in this report, where Vince Cable defends whistleblowing while Cleggover & Jack Straw back the securocrat drum-

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24493062

  17. OPCW, been around since 97.
    There’s been nothing said as far as I know about the depleted uranium and white phosphorous used in Iraq, and especially Fallujah, Afghanistan.
    The ongoing war and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians received no help or backing, despite Israel using plenty of chemical weapons and sprays against the civilian imprisoned population of Gaza.Not a peep from them during cast lead despite the chemical weapons and their burns being televised.
    Then there was the DU tipped bombs and canon shells used during the Libyan war by our and French forces.
    Many of the chem weapons which the Syrian rebels are supposed to have, originated in Libya.
    Then there were the incidents before the big one that rocked the MSM.
    They’ve not accomplished anything yet !!
    This is like Obama’s Nobel Peace prize. It’s for the things they might do, sometime, somewhere in the Summertime.
    Nobel Industries never stopped making dynamite or weapons.The peace prize always was a dying mans conscience for being responsible for millions of deaths.And it would seem to have just as much to with peace now as it did then.

  18. Spot on DoNNyDarkO as Brian says, bought over Spineless Shits in the Nobel C.

  19. Further to this award, the OPCW’s success it is most likely down to the excellent diplomacy of one Brazilian diplomat Jose Mauricio Bustani.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Maur%C3%ADcio_Bustani

    It was down to his efforts that by 2002 most countries bar six had signed up to the chemical weapons convention. The six countries were Israel, Egypt, North Korea, South Sudan, Myanmar, can’t remember the last one.

    Myanmar and Israel have signed but failed to ratify the treaty which means that incidents such as Gaza will not count. Their bloody red hands are excempt by ignorance.

    In my view the OPCW peace prize will be dwn to his efforts, John Bolton tear your last few hairs out!

    Three cheers to Jose Bustani and all that worked in his team. He was axed by arm twisting, Bush could not stomach that he was just about to sign up Saddam to the treaty, it would have taken his WMD arguments right off the table.

    Jose Bustani should be director general of the UN imho, he would have no crux with blackmailers and arm twisters.

    http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_timeline_of_the_2003_invasion_of_iraq&specific_cases_and_issues=bustani

  20. Apparently Frank Gardner is still imbued in ‘cold war syndrome’ as this fake BBC security correspondent juxtapositions written security slanted bollocks knowing full well the intelligence oversight sucks.

    However high-minded the motives of Mr Snowden in blowing the whistle on what he sees as excessive surveillance by a sinister Orwellian state, the fact is he has fled to Moscow with over 58,000 secret British and US intelligence files, all of which will be of great interest to Russia’s FSB, the successor to the KGB.

  21. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    11 Oct, 2013 - 5:04 pm

    The momentum from Snowden’s courageous acts is slowing, and the DC fight keeps pushing that ethnocentric preoccupation in the US. I’m glad his recognition has broken the surface, but we need more disclosures to keep that ball in play.

    Congrats Edward.

  22. Y’all will be encouraged by the Daily Mail’s readers’ comments on the bizarre, sudden campaign by the DM proclaiming Snowden, Greenwald, The Guardian and the BBC all traitors worthy of a mass public shooting.

    A majority of their readers oppose the DM’s position and favour Snowden and his allies for revealing unlawful over- surveillance by The State.

    The OPCW Nobel Peace Prize is being spun as vindication of Obama’s and Kerry’s clever, credible threat of war that drove Assad to agree to destroy Syria’s chemical weapons. No mention that the UK Parliament voted against war and the US Congress was about to do so. Heroic, peace-loving Obama is now settled history.

  23. Craig:

    Doesn’t you favorite man turn up in the strangest of places? You’d think he’d learn to be quiet.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/10/11/jack-straw-edward-snowden-guardian_n_4084258.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

  24. As I said before Aa is on AQ tonight. Should be good for a laugh. Betcha that he will have something to say on the need for security etc. Davey will mutter platitudes about energy prices.

    8pm Radio 4 11/10/2013
    Duration: 48 minutes
    Friday 11 October 2013
    Jonathan Dimbleby presents political debate and discussion from Northampton with the Times writer David Aaronovitch, Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change Ed Davey MP, Linda Whetstone from the Network for a Free Society and Shadow Chief Secretary for the Treasury Chris Lesley MP.

    PS BBC 6pm ‘News’ showed a segment of film about the alleged Syrian government use of CW in ref to the Nobel peace prize winner OPCW.

    The BBC correspondent in Washington adds:
    Paul Adams BBC World Affairs Correspondent

    The OPCW has been working to rid the world of chemical weapons for the past 16 years. For the most part, this task has been laborious and unheralded.

    A staff of about 500, working from its headquarters at The Hague, is charged with making sure that the 189 signatories to the Chemical Weapons Convention are abiding by its terms.

    But it is only in recent weeks, following the use of chemical weapons in Syria, that the OPCW has become a household name.

    It is facing its biggest challenge ever – to verify and destroy Syria’s entire chemical weapons programme by the middle of next year. The Nobel committee clearly feels it needs all the support it can get.

    It is not uncommon for organisations to be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. It has happened 24 times since 1901. Non-proliferation has been an occasional theme, with campaigners for nuclear disarmament and against land mines among those recognised.

    ~~~
    I repeat that Israel and Myanmar are non signatories.

  25. WIKILEAKS – LATEST

    SNOWDEN

    Julian Assange on Snowden, US NSA surveillance, Google and the neo-Imperialism of the US Empire (No, Really!) – Long –

    “Assange: ‘Snowden safe but journalists dealing with him at risk’”, by Eva Golinger, October 11th, 2013 – RT –

    - http://rt.com/news/assange-interview-snowden-journalists-079/

    US EMPIRE NAZIS

    Take a holiday in Europe, Motherf@#$@#$. Take a holiday in F^%$@#@$ Europe, I double dare you. (*)

    US Empire Nazis – the Boy Emperor, Cheney, Rumsfeld, ‘Our Tony’ Bliar, Brown, Cameron, Clegg — Terrified of their date with destiny — A long drop on a short rope. – Nuremberg Mk II. –

    Maybe not today, and maybe not tomorrow, but soon and for the rest of their lives.

    NUREMBERG Mk II

    Mk I for comparison – Nuremberg Executions of N_zi Leaders for ‘Crimes Against Humanity’ and ‘Crimes Against the Laws of War.’ – Original –

    - http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=95d_1206462963

    More – On CG Jung and problem of the mass psychosis of the US Empire Nazis- see comment 2 – US EMPIRE NAZI ‘MASS PSYCHOSIS’ – to ‘Can Iran Trust the United States’, by Sheldon Richman, October 2nd, 2013 – ICH –

    - http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article36415.htm

    PULP FICTION

    (*) Is it true that even those vehemently anti the US-Empire-Neo-Con-Nazis are possessed by the same murderous demons, as CG Jung said of the Germans after World War 2? (ER, Apparently so. Ed.) – Pulp Fiction –

    - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg8-dii9Ma0

    STREWTH!

    The lives of Australian Wikileaks heroes – ready for anything! With the US Empire reptilian-brained Rarl Kove played by a crocodile.

    But it all ends well for the Aussie Battler. For the croc, not so much. He is, ER, stuffed. Literally. ; ) … And it couldn’t happen to a nicer US Empire Nazi, you may think.

    Go Julian ! –

    - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2Gbf_EaV7g

    Rarl Kove stuffed ? (ER, ‘Natural justice’ – geddit? Ed.) -

    - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrRfx71_4CQ#t=00m29s

  26. Eva Golinger speaks to Julian Assange. 11 October 2013

    http://actualidad.rt.com/programas/detras_de_la_noticia/view/108078-detras-noticia-entrevista-julian-assange

    Transcript http://rt.com/news/assange-interview-snowden-journalists-079/

    ‘Edward Snowden is safe in Russia, but the fates of journalists who helped him and published his leaks are now of more concern for WikiLeaks, Julian Assange said in an exclusive interview with RT Spanish ‘Behind the News’ host Eva Golinger.

    Assange also shared his views on the NSA scandal in Latin America and the future of freedom of information.

    He criticized the US and the White House for abusing its power more than any other administration in history, stressing that President Obama has prosecuted twice as many journalists under the espionage act as all previous US presidents combined since 1917.

    US can blackmail almost every influential person in Latin America’

    /..
    http://rt.com/news/assange-interview-snowden-journalists-079/

  27. BrianFujisan

    11 Oct, 2013 - 7:44 pm

    Looks like some quarters are serious about impeaching obomb this, that, and everything inbetween

    Resolution Impeaching Barack Hussein Obama, President of the United States, for high crimes and misdemeanors.

    Resolved, That Barack Hussein Obama, President of the United States, is impeached for high crimes and misdemeanors and that the following articles of impeachment be exhibited to the United States Senate:

    Articles of impeachment exhibited by the House of Representatives of the United States of America in the name of itself and of the people of the United States of America, against Barack Hussein Obama, President of the United States of America, in maintenance and support of its impeachment against him for high crimes and misdemeanors.

    Article I

    In his conduct while President of the United States, Barack Hussein Obama, in violation of his constitutional oath to faithfully execute the office of President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in violation of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, has willfully corrupted and manipulated the executive branch to increase its power and destroy the balance of powers between the three branches of government that is established by the Constitution of the United States.

    The means used to implement this course of conduct or scheme included one or more of the following acts:

    (1) Shortly after being sworn in for his first term as President of the United States, Barack Hussein Obama began creating new departments and appointing Czars to oversee these departments. These Czars were never submitted to the United States Senate for approval as required by Article 2, Section 2 of the Constitution. In addition, these Czars and the Departments have budgets that are not subject to being controlled by Congress as provided for by Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution. He also made recess appointments when the Senate was not in recess……

    More from –

    http://therearenosunglasses.wordpress.com/2013/10/11/formal-articles-of-impeachment-of-obama-prepared-for-the-congress-of-the-united-states/

  28. Bunch of bought over Spineless Shits in the Nobel C

    They didn’t get where they are today without brown nosing and sucking up to the power Brain me lad!

    All these committees are stuffed to rafters with the conformists and harrumphers, for fuck sake, Obama getting the peace fucking prize, is this sort of an irony prize?

    ====

    journalists from the world’s media, many of whom were moved to tears by her plucky script

    Now that is taking the piss in the best possible taste.

  29. I sincerely appreciate both Snowden and Manning’s willingness to inform us. Nevertheless, wtf are these awards going to do to get those mofus who f us over every ff-ing time behind bars?

    @ Rouge [continuing from previous threads]

    As far as I can see it, both US/UK governments are shitting their pants for when the day comes that the banksters can’t be bailed out and Joe&Jane six-pack get their hands on crowbars to got out there and find food to feed their toddlers. When Aaron knew he was going to kick the bucket, he came clean in a laudable way. He gave us unprecedented insight into a corner of a very shadowy world. One we know exists, but one that dies instantly when the light of truth hits it. DHS has purchased enough bullets to fight an Iraqi style war for up to 20 years and its new armored vehicles and shiny tanks spell only one thing: anticipated chaos. Again, I’m not all that familiar with the situation in the UK, but HUMINT points in a similar direction. Do you have more info/insight/ideas to share about this topic?

  30. @ Me In Us,

    side note:

    Q: Michael Moore has a picture:

    R: F! Now I need 3 screens.

  31. Completely agree. Nothing has more opened my eyes to the corruption of much of our ‘mainstream media’ than their toadying to MI5 and the CIA over Snowden. Just read Stephen Glover in today Mail and weep – he even has the nerve to call himself a journalist. The security services and the military are constantly looking at new ways of empire-building, so the ‘threat’ will never go away.

  32. Warning. Emetic.

    Hillary Clinton honoured for diplomacy by Duke of York

    Former US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has been presented with this year’s Chatham House Prize in recognition of her contribution to international diplomacy.

    The central London institute also commended Mrs Clinton for her work towards gender equality and opportunities for women and girls.

    Hillary Clinton received the crystal award and a scroll signed by The Queen from Prince Andrew.

    The annual prize is awarded at Banqueting House in Whitehall to the statesperson deemed to have made the greatest contribution to improving international relations in the previous year.

    Earlier husband Bill Clinton tweeted a photo of the power couple enjoying a “beautiful morning walk” in Hyde Park. Credit: Twitter/@billclinton

    http://www.itv.com/news/update/2013-10-11/hillary-clinton-handed-diplomacy-prize-by-prince-andrew/

    ~~

    ‘Air Miles’ Andy has just returned from jetting round the world, partly at our expense, when visiting Indonesia and Vietnam. He probably thinks he’s B.Liar! Note that he has joined RUSI, the warmongers’ think tank. who funded the rest of the 21,000 mile journey.

    Globetrotting Prince Andrew under fire over New York stopover during ‘official’ world tour to have dinner with Eugenie as she starts new job
    Prince met with youngest daughter during final leg of ‘official’ world tour
    Think tank Royal United Services Institute subsidised Prince’s expenses
    Palace insists the rest of New York stay was paid by the Prince himself
    The body has appointed Prince Andrew to its board of advisors
    He was accompanied on his trip by his publicly funded security team

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2445416/Globetrotting-Prince-Andrew-New-York-stopover-official-world-tour-dinner-Eugenie-starts-new-job.html

  33. @ me in us 11 Oct, 2013 – 10:18 pm

    The end is near. I find myself on the same side as Michael Moore re Snowden, so he’s not all bad. But there’s a surplus of him; the percentage of not-all-bad is very small. The vile fatist jokes won’t stop. Sorry. Sorta.

  34. I sense a change in America. Obama blinked over Syria, no question. Obamacare is in trouble and the shutdown means FEMA are poised. Maybe now that it’s fracking its way out of the need for foreign oil, America is turning inwards.

    Hopefully that isn’t bad news for ordinary Americans. All that Homeland Security has to find some kind of threat, doesn’t it?

  35. Maybe now that it’s fracking its way out of the need for foreign oil, America is turning inwards.

    Mike, ever thought why Alaskan oil fields are not getting exploited? The drilling goes on but the wells are capped and out goes the rig to drill the next well.

    Libya was producing oil, when Iraq was attacked, as the Iraqi oil production plummeted, then just as Iraqi oil production was picking up, the Libyan oil goes off line. Ever thought why the arc of instability covers the current oil production fields, and on goes the charade of the “oil is finished any minute now”?

    The kabuki is about propping up the fiat currency which is getting churned out by the tonne on the high speed presses, and the hike in oil prices means the world is soaking up the extra dollars shoved into the world, so that the empires sponsors and underwriters are getting richer as they tax the rest of the world.

    There is no shortage of oil, but there is a glut of dollars that is driving the wars. As all good things come to an end, the free ride of US is nearing its ignominious end. The cracks have been appearing for far too long. Do you recollect the years of turmoil in the ex soviet block orbit countries before the USSR fell apart?

    No one suspected (so they said) that USSR will implode, but it did, as no one suspects that US will implode, but it will do so too. Hang on to your hat, it is coming and when it hits, you will know it.

    But the rich can take fucking comfort, that they will be eaten by the poor, after all the well looked after soft pink flesh will be much more desirable to the taste than the crap fed and over worked slaves and zombies roaming the streets. The rich fucking deserve it, for long they have been working to this end, just like the guy in Germany, who wanted to be eaten.

    It is an interesting situation; on one hand there is a distrust of the corporate media, on the other the memes propagated by the said untrustworthy culprits with a fire hose, cloud the thinking of those wishing to break free from the crap on tap available 24/7/52.

  36. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    12 Oct, 2013 - 12:27 am

    Sorry to burst your bubble, Mike, but the shutdown has overshadowed every other piece of news, and the narcissism and ethnocentrism is unabated. The republicans are poised to cave on their demands, and even a weak-kneed Obama seems to tower over their carcasses.

    As for FEMA, the US sees themselves as the marketing test for Agenda 21, and they want everyone to know it’s not a genuine threat. Of course that excludes any events not under their control, like terrorism or comets.

  37. WIKILEAKS – SNOWDEN

    Six new videos of Edward ‪#Snowden‬ in Moscow; with Sarah Harrison – Wikileaks Twitter –

    - http://wikileaks.org/Video-Edward-Snowden-wins-Sam.html

    Wikileaks Twitter –

    - https://twitter.com/wikileaks

  38. @ Nevermind

    Angola [Syria too, but, hey, that's been dealt with as we speak] LINK

    @ NR,

    MM’s docus are/were Miramax/Weistein Bro productions [at least most].

    @ Ben,

    Been wondering about FEMA/DHS for a while and my geustimation is that all that gear is purchased for when the shit hits the fan. I found an article by Ellen Brown on Gordon Brown very interesting. Btw, how about a permanent shutdown of the NSA/DHS and all other agencies sucking the living daylight out of the gov’s perpetually refilling trough?

  39. Mike,

    The fracking story isn’t what it is made out to be – this isn’t the time or the place for the full gory details. But yes it is something but don’t believe the over-hype. The US is still a massive net importer of oil and that isn’t going to change (short of collapse). Heck the USA is still a net importer of natural gas despite many years of fracking!

  40. kedem forever

    12 Oct, 2013 - 6:28 am

    Anybody on for a side bet on the 2015 election. All Labour and Milliband have to do is distribute enough videos of his and Rifkinds Commons contrasting performances during Syria war debate – we had a genuine Milliband pleading for more information about the Ghouta gassing before coming to any decision, as opposed to the Conservatives zio shill Rifkind thundering for war on Camerons behalf, based on YouTube videos and 8200 intercepts. Thanks to CM and others raising doubts based on Trodos,etc the truth finally emerges, the gassing of the 426 (Alawite) children was a contrived Bandar operation and Netanhayu’s “live” intercepts and missile information were fake.

    Losing the upcoming 2015 election would be a fair price for Cameron to pay for this attempted MONSTROUS deceit, and we will be saved the spectre of the Gove,Hague and Fox FOIs shilling away, in dread of genuine 8200 held “intercepts” of their twin hotel room Hershey Highway cameos!!

  41. Reference fracking.

    Over 865,200 Gallons of Fracked Oil Spill in North Dakota
    Public in Dark for Days Due to Government Shutdown

    by Steve Horn / October 11th, 2013
    http://dissidentvoice.org/2013/10/over-865200-gallons-of-fracked-oil-spill-in-north-dakota/

    ‘Over 20,600 barrels of oil fracked from the Bakken Shale has spilled from a Tesoro Logistics pipeline in Tioga, North Dakota in one of the biggest onshore oil spills in recent U.S. history.

    Though the spill occurred on September 29, the U.S. National Response Center – tasked with responding to chemical and oil spills — did not make the report available until October 8 due to the ongoing government shutdown.

    “The center generally makes such reports available on its website within 24 hours of their filing, but services were interrupted last week because of the U.S. government shutdown,” explained Reuters.’

    !!

  42. Kedem Forever

    A Gove adviser – Who and what the Cons really, really are.

    Genetics outweighs teaching, Gove adviser tells his boss
    Dominic Cummings’ 250-page paper attacks fear of elitism and waste of billions of pounds, and calls for slimmed-down ministry

    Coulson obviously thought that Cummings was toxic but Poison Gove did not see it and saw Cummings as fitting for his elitist agenda.

    ‘One of the best-known and most controversial of many special advisers working in government, Cummings is due to leave Gove at the end of the year. He worked in the department for two years, having previously advised Gove before the election, although his appointment within the department was initially blocked by David Cameron’s then director of communications, Andy Coulson, who regarded Cummings as untrustworthy.’

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/oct/11/genetics-teaching-gove-adviser

    I expect you read that the head of one of Gove’s ‘free’ schools who had no teaching experience has just left her post after six months.

    http://www.theguardian.com/education/2013/oct/09/free-school-head-no-teaching-qualifications-leaves-job

  43. Anti-Taliban propaganda offensive contd.

    Was this visit was prearranged on the assumption that she would win the Nobel prize?

    Malala meets the Obombers. Ironic when you think he has dispatched many of her fellow citizens, man, woman and child, by drone.

    Malala Yousafzai meets Obamas at White House
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24504652#

    PS Taliban = Mujahideen = funded and trained by USUKIsNATO to fight the Russians!
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mujahideen#Afghanistan

  44. And the Nobel prize for agriculture goes to ” MONSANTO ”
    http://action.sumofus.org/a/world-food-prize-monsanto-syngenta/

  45. Manchurian Malala – “Malala is the bravest, sweetest girl I have ever met in my entire life”. They’re not doing all this for nothing, she’s going to be the next Bhutto.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/10374549/Malala-Yousafzai-meets-the-Obamas-at-the-White-House.html

  46. O/T

    “Arafat poisoning claim backed by journal”

    Lancet publishes peer review supporting findings Palestinian leader may have been poisoned by polonium

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2013/10/arafat-poisoning-claim-backed-journal-2013101215735508974.html

  47. “Anti- Taliban propaganda offensive”???

    Ah, yes, those poor Talibs are so misunderstood by the Evil West. All they want is a fair and progressive society, with women’s rights and freedom of expression for all. Yes, Mary, vile propaganda it is, having one’s face shot for attending school. Poor, poor Taliban.

    http://dawn.com/news/1048776/malala-the-real-story-with-evidence

  48. More Mary c&p drivel:

    “Reference fracking.
    Over 865,200 Gallons of Fracked Oil Spill in North Dakota
    Public in Dark for Days Due to Government Shutdown”

    865, 200 gallons? The mind boggles at such a figure, as it is intended to.

    Until one realises that an Olympic-sized swimming pool contains 660, 000 gallons.

    So not a very significant spill as it turns out.

  49. Only the other day we had Mary whinging about high energy prices (a large part due to environmental taxes), now we have Mary whinging about fracking in the US, which has reduced energy prices there considerably. No pleasing some!

  50. resident dissident

    12 Oct, 2013 - 11:51 am

    Be careful anon of challenging Mary’s pronouncements – exercising the freedom to disagree is just proof of your bourgeois deviance. The next thing will be that they accuse you of being the school bully – and her none too clever sidekicks will turn up with their side line in none too original insults. What you will never get is a thing like a serious counter argument or anything amounting to an intellectual challenge. The leader of the gang has already made the position clear.

  51. Ignore the tag team simpletons.

  52. Incidents of destitute people setting themselves alight in Manchester and Birmingham, and in the US and France.
    http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/thread/1381569830.html

    The British Red Cross are stepping in to the food aid programmes in this country.

    Exclusive: Red Cross launches emergency food aid plan for UK’s hungry
    Welfare cuts and the economic downturn send soaring numbers of people to soup kitchens and food banks across Europe
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/exclusive-red-cross-launches-emergency-food-aid-plan-for-uks-hungry-8872496.html

    Where next Agent Cameron and our own male version of Cruella de Vil, IDS?

    ~~

    Royal news catchup.

    Pipps will be OK though in these times of hardship. She can eat pheasant!
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2446132/Having-pheasant-break-Pippa-poses-50-dead-birds-shooting-trip-Scotland.html

    Her little nephew George will be spending Christmas with both sets of grandparents at Sandringham. Granny Queen has just had a £6.9m pay rise so she will be able to get some nice treats and goodies for the family party. What a jolly time awaits them!

    http://global.christianpost.com/news/prince-george-first-christmas-at-sandringham-queen-elizabeth-invites-middleton-family-106459/

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/436014/Queen-down-to-last-million-as-she-gets-22-per-cent-pay-rise

  53. “Ignore the tag team simpletons.”

    Did you bother to read Resident Dissident’s post before performing that spectacular own goal, Jives?

  54. Mary drivels on, this time from the Mail’s celeb trash column:

    “Royal news catchup. Pipps will be OK though in these times of hardship. She can eat pheasant.”

    Though not a common sight in the leafy lanes of suburban Surrey, where most birds tend to get run over by Waitrose home delivery vans, pheasants are two a penny during the shooting season, as any fule no. So our resident Glenda Slagg can get on with writing tomorrow’s headline: “Hurrah for Pipps for dining on cheap poultry!”

  55. I was genuinely shocked to read Mary’s post about destitute people setting themselves alight in Manchester and Birmingham.

    So I clicked on the link.

    And it turns out that a man on benefits set fire to the telephones in his job centre.

  56. Saudi-Israelia seek to destroy Syria: Expert

    “They (Israelis and the Saudis) have been virtually merging into one country of Saudi-Israelia and the hard-line faction of neo-conservatives here in the US that want to destroy Syria for Israel, turn it into three small balkanized little states and go through Syria in an attack on Iran,” Kevin Barrett said.

  57. resident dissident

    12 Oct, 2013 - 12:46 pm

    “So our resident Glenda Slagg” – more of a Davina Spart I think – reporting from deep undercover with the huddled masses of Surrey working to protect the local wildlife from being converted into pate for delivery to the local fascisti in the vans of the faux workers co-operative.

    Tut tut – such frivolity when people are setting fire to telephones.

  58. I am sort of chuckling (no offence) at the idea of there being a ‘hard-line’ faction of neo-conservatives. Given the luantic nonsense your average neo-conservative spouts daily, I am truly disturbed at the idea that there is a fringe-group that there is a faction that is even worse.

    But there is though, isn’t there? These neo-conservatives truly are fucking insane. I’m quite sure they talk idly about rolling out the ‘tactical’ nukes, and accepting a 10 year war with Putin as part of the price. Loons, all of them. Loons with power, and influence at that. Shudder.

  59. Anon, 12:21 pm: there were two links on the thread that Mary linked to. This is the one you didn’t read, or didn’t mention:

    http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/desperate-jobseeker-sets-himself-alight-187732

  60. Yes, Clark, I hadn’t seen that. Aside from the fact that the story is over a year old (Mary wishes to create the impression that people are increasingly setting themselves on fire in response to government ‘austerity’), I can’t find any other cases of self-immolation other than the case in Manchester, which Mary erroneously categorised under “incidents of destitute people setting themselves alight”. As you are aware, but choose not to comment on, the man set fire to the telephones.

    So we have one case from over a year ago in which there were obvious mental issues being used to create an impression of destitute people seeing no option but to set fire to themselves.

    I should add that having used my local job centre at the age of 18 I can confirm that it was the experience of seeing drug and alcohol-addicted serial wasters with a sense of entitlement abusing staff that made me get out and find a job, for which I am ever thankful. I would estimate that fewer than 5% were actually looking for work.

  61. Anon, my own experience is that finding work is easy, but finding income is far more difficult.

  62. Anon 12 Oct, 2013 – 11:21 am

    Ah, poisoning the well. The tried and trusted tactic of the disinfo agent – shame it never works. At least it was amusing – but I’m still not sure if it’s supposed to be satrirical knowing how crap the quality of their work is getting since they had to farm out their nonsense overseas for fear of being exposed – like they already have been numerous times when their amatuer dramatics go tits-up, e.g. crises actors appearing on multiple major ‘news’ stories being exposed, digital fingerprints showing pre-prepared web pages etc. Yes, the staged media-event seems to be falling apart; and who can forget the bizarre ‘police’ behaviour during the arrest of the Woolwich suspects? Especially considering the hundreds of millions spent on preparing our emergency services to counter the ‘terrorist threat’ and all they could manage was Laurel and Hardy, and they didn’t even give them the right costume.

  63. Hi Clark, how is it going?

    Still up in the lonely wilds of Scotland?

    From the link:

    “He would have to have been very desperate to have done something like that.

    “It’s shocking that somebody could have been driven to those depths.”

    It is a disgrace that a private company as in Jobcentre Plus is being inferred to as DWP, a governmental agency. Unaccountable profit motivated reverse Robin Hood operatives plying their trade in suppression, discounting and disenfranchisement of the jobless, without any hindrance. In fact these privateers are cheered on and encouraged to do so. Interesting that the said operatives will not give more than their first name, and or will not provide any references (number, etc) for any of the referral, or transactions. This is UK in the twenty first century.

  64. Clark: “Anon, my own experience is that finding work is easy, but finding income is far more difficult.”

    This is true. Touring the country, attending protests and carrying out weeks of plumbing work for no charge are not conducive to securing an income.

  65. Too ridiculous for words – the World Bank FFS. Next she’ll be addressing the CIA and NSA before receiving her Purple Heart.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/pakistani-teen-still-brave-in-the-face-of-threats-by-the-taliban-speaks-at-world-bank-on-friday/2013/10/11/c1ccdbea-32a7-11e3-8627-c5d7de0a046b_story.html

  66. Kedem Forever

    12 Oct, 2013 - 2:05 pm

    Very puzzling, by now everyone is aware of the standard zio tactic of assigning paid shills to influential blogs, except our Jon/Mod. The standard hasbara handbook approach, no insights, just denigration and disruption applied to JG,Mary,etc. Ok we had habba once tell us of Michael Winners last dinner, but that was about all!

    426 Alawite children were just gassed to start a war for Israel in Syria, and the monster satanyahu who gave false “intercept” testimony (and Hollande and Fabius and Hague and Rifkind) has gone scot free, and then we have his ilk here ……in full DIY hasbara mode.

  67. Anon, I’m sure you’re right. What a worthless shit I must be. Oh how I wish I was as worthy as yourself.

  68. Clark Said;

    my own experience is that finding work is easy, but finding income is far more difficult.

    You have hit the nail on the head. In the current climate, no one has any money to pay, but plenty of work to be done. This is the Alan Bastard’s wet dream; “bringing back the slavery”.

    It solves the problem of housing shortage, traffic congestion, and inflation, as well as helping to boost productivity, and profitability!

    The current sick situation of blaming the jobless for not finding a job is the lowest trick that has been played so far, given the depression that is not a depression but an economic “downturn”!

  69. Come on now, Clark. Nobody said you were a worthless shit. What you need is some positive thinking and a little more concentration on the task in hand. Self-pity will get you nowhere.

  70. Security bedwetters united

    12 Oct, 2013 - 2:31 pm

    Oh no, 58,000 secret British and US intelligence files! There go Alexander’s blackmail tapes of phone sex, infidelity, criminal conspiracy, and corruption by Diane Feinstein, Barack Obama, Antonin Scalia, the judges of the FISA court, and anyone else with security-sector oversight responsibility. Disclosure will critically compromise NSA’s mission. Scalia’s O-face is classified for a reason.

  71. resident dissident

    12 Oct, 2013 - 2:32 pm

    Emppey

    Ah the Hitler avatar , the tried and tested tactic of a d***head with nothing of any consequence to say…………..

  72. Kedem Forever

    12 Oct, 2013 - 2:49 pm

    The Bush tax cuts, continued under Obomba so far amount to $6 TRILLION (out of the 17 TRILLION current debt). The supply side theorists were wont to claim all that capital in the hands of the private sector would lead to greater wealth,job,gnp,etc creation. GHW Bush had referred to this “Reagan/Stockman” economics as “voodoo economics”, and so far we have seen only the 2008 crash and stagnant employment levels in the US economy. With a Republican controlled Congress, there will be no sunset on the Bush tax cuts and no reduction in $800 Billion US Defence Budget (greater than that of the ENTIRE rest of the world combined). That has left Obamacare and Food Stamps, among other items, as targets for reducing the US Budget deficit. On a positive note, with such heavy government indebtedness, we can expect the interest rate to stay at levels affordable by the US Government ie 1-2%, ie affordable long term mortgages then.

  73. More info for Anon on the shooting party, which took place in Scotland, not England. As he can see they all do really useful jobs like nursing, social work and caring.

    Revealed: The kick-boxer, popstar James Blunt’s ex and a Doctor Who girl… meet Pippa’s pheasant shooting posse
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2454951/Pippa-Middletons-pheasant-shooting-posse-includes-popstars-ex-Doctor-Who-girl.html

    If he prefers this version, he can read about the cost of her trendy Dubarry boots. A snip @ £350. No cardboard to cover the holes in the soles for her.

    Annie Brown: Pippa and her glory-hunting posh pals are bunch of twisted toffs
    ANNIE says the picture of Pippa Middleton and her upper-crust killing crew in Scotland is a sickening scene.
    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/lifestyle/annie-brown-pippa-glory-hunting-posh-2351403

    What wasters.

  74. To give Malala her due she is reported to have said this about drone warfare to Obomber although it probably fell on deaf ears.

    ‘“I thanked president Obama for the United States’ work in supporting education in Pakistan and Afghanistan and for Syrian refugees.

    “I also expressed my concerns that drone attacks are fuelling terrorism. Innocent victims are killed in these acts, and they lead to resentment among the Pakistani people. If we refocus efforts on education it will make a big impact.“

    She called for greater co-operation between the governments of the United States and Pakistan.’

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/president-obama-welcomes-malala-at-the-white-house-8876068.html

  75. Further – Self immolation. Distressing.

    The men who set themselves on fire
    Due to joblessness and a bleak economy, self-immolations in industrialised societies are rising rapidly.
    07 Oct 2013
    http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/10/men-who-set-themselves-fire-20131075515834438.html

  76. Daniel Rich
    11 Oct, 2013 – 10:13 pm

    I think Aaron Russo said pretty well everything about what’s going on and where it’s going. On-going wars, fear of terrorism, heightened security, and financial crises are the tools to bring it about.

    911 is a verboten subject, but I see it as the key (though not the beginning) – all else has followed from that: the war on terror (and acceptance of torture), massive funding for arms, the ascendence of the security and intelligence services with their ramping up of fear as a tool of control and use of secrecy to hide the truth.

    You ask about the situation in the UK. It’s about the same as most everywhere else: governments out of line soon fall into line if their members want to be in the game and share the spoils.

  77. Bolivia’s first indigenous president Juan Evo Morales should be recognized for being humiliated at hands of US imperialism for supporting Snowden.

    http://rehmat1.com/2013/07/05/bolivian-president-skyjacked/

  78. Re Wikileaks & Snowden

    From yesterday’s press release …

    Tonight WikiLeaks and Sixteen Films release MEDIASTAN—a WikiLeaks road movie.

    The release of MEDIASTAN is timed to challenge the UK opening today of THE FIFTH ESTATE – the multi-million dollar Hollywood anti-WikiLeaks movie produced by Dreamworks in collaboration with Disney. UK audiences will be able to watch MEDIASTAN online for free during The Fifth Estate’s opening weekend.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gbenFTcisY&feature=youtu.be

    or download from http://thepiratebay.sx/torrent/9039415/Mediastan

  79. As most of us continue to suffer the cuts, we are promised yet more bread and circuses, this time next year from Glasgow. Do our rulers think that there will be a feel-good effect for the establishment line prior to the referendum? Or is the choice of location of the Games and the timing pure coincidence?

    ‘Relaying the Commonwealth baton – Queen and media on-message

    Message in a baton: Commonwealth is royal wealth – photo

    With much media fanfare, the Commonwealth Games baton has now been sent on its royal-approved way from Buckingham Palace to Glasgow and onwards around the globe. As the BBC dutifully reported:

    “The baton contains the Queen’s hand-written message to the Commonwealth and will visit all 70 competing nations and territories over the next 288 days. It will travel to Scotland on Thursday before heading to India for its first international stopover on 11 October. The baton’s journey will end at the opening ceremony on 23 July 2014, when the Queen will read the message inside.”‘

    /..
    http://johnhilley.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/relaying-commonwealth-baton-queen-and.html

    Commonwealth Games 23 July – 3rd August 2014
    Referendum for Scottish Independence Thursday 18 September 2014

  80. News from the counting house.

    Hedge fund linked to George Osborne’s best man to make millions from privatisation of Royal Mail after ‘buying £50m stake’
    Peter Davies met the Chancellor at Oxford University
    Was Osborne’s best man when he married Frances Howell in 1998
    Davies is a member of management committee for Lansdowne Partners
    Hedge-fund firm has seen value of investment rise by £18million already
    City fund made reported £100million from financial crash

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2455653/George-Osbornes-best-man-Peter-Davies-make-millions-Royal-Mail-shares.html

    ‘Peter joined Lansdowne in June 2001, is a member of the Management Committee and is jointly responsible for the Developed Markets Strategy, previously known as the UK Strategy. Prior to joining Lansdowne, Peter was a Director at Merrill Lynch Investment Managers (MLIM, previously Mercury Asset Management). Peter joined MLIM in 1993.

    Peter is a member of the investment committee of the Wellcome Trust, an investment committee member at Magdalen College Oxford and a member of the advisory committee of Manocap (a venture capital fund investing in some of the most distressed areas of the world, initially focused in Sierra Leone). Peter has a first class honours degree in Philosophy, Politics and Economics from Oxford University.’
    https://www.lansdownepartners.com/about-us/people

    Paul Ruddock (ex Schroders and Goldman Sachs) who co founded Lansdowne has now retired. ‘According to reports, Sir Paul’s wealth is estimated to be about £270m, He is believed to have donated £570,000 to the Conservative Party between 2003 and 2011.’ He received a knighthood in 2012.

    ~~

    As you can see they are ‘all in it together’.

  81. “She called for greater co-operation between the governments of the United States and Pakistan.”

    I call for greater cooperation between the people of Pakistan and the people of the failed-state of Pakistan.

    I challenge Malala to return to Pakistan and make a difference there. I challenge Malala to make a difference within Pakistan from anywhere rather than standing on platforms going lalalala. Still, she is a child and i wonder what kind of adult she will grow up to be with all the attention. A different kind of human being with special awareness or just another puppet wanting to play with the super-structures.

  82. Cable gets something right.

    Clegg and Cable disagree on Guardian Snowden leaks

    Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg and his cabinet colleague Vince Cable appear at odds about the Guardian’s disclosure of secret surveillance.

    Mr Cable said the newspaper performed a “very considerable public service” by publishing details of documents leaked by Edward Snowden.

    But Mr Clegg reaffirmed his belief it was “not good at all” and said the information could “help terrorists”.
    /..

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24493062

  83. resident dissident

    12 Oct, 2013 - 9:17 pm

    Mary

    Glasgow’s bid for the 2014 Commonwealth Games was selected in 2007 – so much for that conspiracy theory. I look forward to the apology for the misinformation – I trust we won’t have to wait seven years.

  84. @ Rouge,

    It is so darn easy to speculate and even easier to guess one way or another, but it looks to me that what was once considered to be that ‘middle class’ chunk of society [in the past], has been slam-dunked into the financial blenders of $$-churning banksters and thus rendered obsolete, sidelined and completely obliterated. With no option but to hang on to the rafters of too big to jail fraudsters and one paycheck away from total poverty, how much do they care about NSA spying or Fukushima’s meltdown?.

    To find solutions one has to try to understand [conceptualize if you will] the entire complexity of an ever evolving, societal disharmony that has its roots in something I, myself, find very difficult to dissect.

    Let us have a look at this board for example and assume it is some sort of cross section of a ‘society’ as a whole.

    Who are the ones that are reaching out across dividing lines [cultural, religion, wealth, education, etc.] in an attempt to bridge gaps? Who are out t/here to find common ground in an attempt to ensure that true equality for all [men, women and children] will fly its banner over the entirety of humanity?

    ‘We’ had an opportunity to become a great nation and we ff-ed it up big time, by guiding that herd of golden calves straight into the ff-ing Fed’s vaults and run around with plastic $$ instead. What true idiots ‘we’’ve become…

    Free speech zones?

    My ff-ing ass.

  85. resident dissident

    12 Oct, 2013 - 9:31 pm

    For once I do agree with Mary about the Roya Mail privatisation – if local councillors were to sell off assets at a discount of 25% to their value they be discharged and disqualified from office. The minister responsible in this case was Vince Cable. Given that the City usually sees anything above a 10% premium on issue to be seen as a sign of underpricing (some premium is necessary to avoid prohibitive underwriting costs – and that is understood) I really do think Mararet Hodge should be calling in Cable and the investment bank advising on the issue to understand why they got things so wrong. In the meantimne the poor old customer and taxpayer will be picking up the tap for the recently increased postage costs and the taking over of the pension liablity that made the Royal Mail such an attractive proposition. This is almost as much a scandal as the privatisation of the railway carriage leasing companies which were sold off to their managers and then sold onto the banks for a 100% return within months courtesy of the last Tory Government.

  86. resident dissident

    12 Oct, 2013 - 9:38 pm

    Daniel Rich

    Given that I am probably classified as a Ziotroll in your eyes – perhaps you might wish to point out where I or any of the otehr Ziotrolls here have ever tried to defend the Israeli governments in Cast Lead – please come back when you have found something.

    You are making the mistake in assuming that just because we object to many of your perverse views that we are unable to be critical and condemn the Israeli Govt when it commits attrocities and uses unreasonable force.

  87. RD, i’m glad you commented on the royal heist. Can you save me the research and tell me if you are aware of the relative accessibility to those shares by the ‘average’ Joe Blog and minimum application/allotment thresholds, etc? Will research it tomorrow if you don’t have a broad answer handy. Thanks.

  88. resident dissident

    12 Oct, 2013 - 9:53 pm

    Villager

    I think 8% of the shares were issued to staff, 38% are still hled by the Govt (which I suspect will be sold in small tranches to institutional shareholders over the coming years so as not to rock the share price and of the remainder they are split 36% to institutional investors and 18% to private investors (all of whom have been limited to £750 of shares per head).

    This issue and the recent sale of a tranche of Lloyds demonstrate that this Tory govt (despite the LibDems) has dropped the property owning democracy of the Thatcher days and is more than comfortable with business being owned and controlled by a small elite of hedge funds, private equity and investment managers – perhaps one of the differences in outlook between Eton and Kesteven Grammar.

  89. Thank you both, Habby and Resident Dissident and thank you RD for your latter observation. And Habby understand your AC/DC sentiment — good to have your humour on board, which i believe is an important component of live, including when lived seriously.

  90. live=life

  91. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    12 Oct, 2013 - 10:05 pm

    http://mondoweiss.net/2013/10/doesnt-anything-operation.html

    Elie Wiesel’s statements about Israel’s 2008-09 attack on Gaza don’t add up.

    On September 29, Wiesel appeared alongside Sheldon Adelson, Rwandan President Paul Kagame and Shmuley Boteach to talk genocide and about how the “strong” can protect the “weak” in the context of the chemical weapons attack in Syria in August. “Israel is part of our lives. It is truly part of mine,” Wiesel said on stage.

    At the conclusion of the bizarre event, Max Blumenthal and I asked the world’s most famous Holocaust survivor an obvious, though unasked, question: who would protect the people of Gaza from Israel?

    His first answer (minute 6:20 in the video above) was that “all human beings should be protected everywhere.” When I pressed him about the 300 children killed in Gaza during Operation Cast Lead and whether he supported the assault, his response was: “I don’t know anything about it.” Blumenthal and I each tried one more time, and Wiesel again said he didn’t know anything about Cast Lead.

    ================================

    Unreal…

  92. resident dissident

    12 Oct, 2013 - 10:06 pm

    Habba

    Welcome back by the way.

    I think my reading of Cable is that although intellectually he is a liberal and a Keynesian – he is just not a strong man or a shrewd operator so he is consistently outmanoevred. Perhaps some of this can be attributed to having worked with a major oil company for many years where selling your sould to the devil is pretty much par for the course – those who have worked within banks and oil companies will actually know that they are full of such people (which is no surprise since they aim to recuit the most intelligent graduates), the more consistent who refuse to compromise their principles just don’t fit in as well and don’t progress.

    Politically, I think Cable’s role is now pretty much limited to be a human shield for Clegg from about 75% of that party’s members.

  93. RD: yep.

  94. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    12 Oct, 2013 - 10:14 pm

    Mein Name ist Hase, ich weiß von nicht. Ich habe nur Befehle befolgt.

  95. resident dissident

    12 Oct, 2013 - 10:24 pm

    Ben

    I would agree that Wiesel is being weasel worded about Israel’s involvement in Cast Lead – but don’t we also see the mirror image in those who fail to condemn the the attrocities committed by Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Quaeda, the Taliban etc.? I’m sorry I cannot put these things on a weighing scale – an attrocity is an attrocity whoever is the perpetrator – and without universal condemnation you just get into a rather pointless game of one side trying to claim justifcation for the unjustifiable.

  96. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    12 Oct, 2013 - 10:25 pm

    The Elders of Zion have something on Obummer, Daniel…something big wrt Libya or somesuch.

    He really is being pinched by CIA/Mossad extortionists. He’s not a good contortionist. Certainly not as talented as Abe Lincoln.

  97. resident dissident

    12 Oct, 2013 - 10:28 pm

    BTW if anyone gets involved in name calling etc. on my last post – don’t bother that is where I stand and it will take more than silly names to shift me.

  98. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    12 Oct, 2013 - 10:33 pm

    Bad company for such a discussion RD. Only Boteach seems to be an honest broker.

    We know about Adelson, and the Tutsi has a shadowy past wrt the Rwandan massacres.

    I will rely on you to point out Gazan spitballs bouncing off Israeli tanks. Wiesel is the purported humanitarian who self-righteously pursues WWII nazis while preening the students who seem to have learned much from facism.

  99. resident dissident

    12 Oct, 2013 - 10:37 pm

    Ben

    I disagree about Obama – one difference between him and his predecessors is that he conducts most of his diplomacy below the surface and without their grandstanding – given the ferocity of the competing forces on both sides of the many arguments in World affairs think things could have been a awful lot worse – and my guess is that they are considerably better than you would have predicted 5 years ago especially if Obama had lost. Stand back and look at things with a little perspective.

  100. Resident Dissident: does ‘disingenuous’ count as name calling? I have to point out that, although as a person, like you, I condemn – nay revolt – against atrocities of any description, especially atrocious ones, only one of the perpetrators you have listed is officially an ally of my elected government: the rest are, or are when they suit, officially ‘enemies’. So I think your post is quite useful in pointing up the horror of collusion, in fact.

  101. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    12 Oct, 2013 - 10:44 pm

    !00% wrong on Obama, RD. He loves trial balloons, and leaks he approves. He’s on TeeVee every day with pablum and the same talking points. But he does love him some compromise. He even telegraphs his bottom-line to opponents before a negotiation. I want to sell him a used car. Now THAT would be a negotiation.

  102. resident dissident

    12 Oct, 2013 - 10:55 pm

    Technicolour

    I don’t see how being an ally stops anyone from condemning the bad behaviour of your allies – these messages are often best coming from Allies and friends rather than implacable opponents. I am more than happy to be critical of my own and other western democracies when the need arises – it doesn’t mean that I should doubt their rights to existence. If that is your definition of collusion so be it – but I would be very careful about who you are colluding with yourself.

    Ben

    Nearly all of us have a have a shadowy past with regard to the Rwandan massacres – I didn’t notice much pushing and shouting anywhere for the UN or anyone to do much about what was building up beforehand.

  103. miaouw, look what the cat dragged in and how the masochistic masses are boun d over the royal Mail barrel, what an act of piracy on the British people.

    2/3 of Rotal Mail sold off to institutional investors as an early C word present from Osborne to his loaded friends. Cafe Nero is expanding, hurray, another non taxpayer to the ranks of multinational suckers putting three fingers up to thse coffee shops who pay full wack.

    With all that caffeing you would think this will end in a bloddy drugs/tax war, Independents versus TNC scroungers associated….

    Obama and Blair should face the same destiny.

  104. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    12 Oct, 2013 - 11:00 pm

    “I didn’t notice much pushing and shouting anywhere for the UN or anyone to do much about what was building up beforehand.”

    No profit there. No compelling national interest. Plenty of blame for those who stood by, but participation in the slaughter goes beyond. How about Sheldon Adelson? Is he unfairly painted?

  105. @ Ben,

    Here’s another clown of the Obambi & Bailey Ring-a-ding-dong Circus: Killjoy was here: Netanyahu at the UN.

    Whatever happened to AIPAC’s 250 member A-team [lobbyists] that was going to push for war on Syria?

    And just when you think things couldn’t get any weirder….

  106. resident dissident

    12 Oct, 2013 - 11:01 pm

    Ben

    So what you have forecast 5 years ago before Obama was elected? I am more interested in the tangible results of Obama’s negotiations rather than the play acting beforehand – if you want a President who sticks to a position through thick and thin then you must have loved Reagan and Bush – personally I prefer those who can show a bit of doubt from time to time and who know how to bend with the wind.

  107. Resident Dissident: thanks, I don’t collude. The Israeli government is orchestrating the atrocities; not the Israeli people. If the country were represented by, say, Yuri Avnery, or many equal others (and Likud ten years ago were getting a pathetic, Blair-ite 26 percent of the vote), we would be seeing an entirely different and markedly less heart-rending state of affairs.

    However, while my elected representatives have no say on the policies of Al Quaida/the Taliban (except when their US allies fund them and perhaps not even then) they might be expected to influence the actions of an ally; hence the pressure brought by many people here, I think. Myself I think real pressure for change will come from the largely decent people inside Israel itself which is why I thoroughly object to a mindset which seeks to conflate ‘Jewish’ with ‘Israeli goverment’ and which would repel most Jewish people as a result.

  108. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    12 Oct, 2013 - 11:11 pm

    ” personally I prefer those who can show a bit of doubt from time to time and who know how to bend with the wind.”

    Oh, yes he does bend. I just prefer someone who’s not double-jointed and blown over by a breeze.

    I agree he’s better than Bush or Romney, but I never bought into their bullshit and so they fulfilled my worst hopes, while Obama dashes my hope-vote every day to my disappointment.

  109. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    12 Oct, 2013 - 11:16 pm

    Daniel; poor Bibi. I have to live in the US-the new 24/7 ethnocentric focus on local politics (Shutdown) and listen to every news show’s latest update on a stalemate (Why doesn’t Obama negotiate……why oh why, oh why.) Nothing else ever punches through that formidable crust, and there is plenty going on, like Fukushima.

  110. NB RD: “I don’t see how being an ally stops anyone from condemning the bad behaviour of your allies”

    - Cast Lead. Not ‘bad behaviour’; terror.

  111. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    12 Oct, 2013 - 11:25 pm

    Daniel; Heh. The circle is unbroken. Israelis/Bandar US/Al Queda. Strange bedfellows.

    Really, RD. Who IS an ally? What’s the definition? I suggest there is no such thing, except maybe “The enemy of my enemy is my friend”

  112. Ben: briefly think that an ally is someone to whom one’s government provides (variously) financial support, weapons, political support and PR (in the Security Council, UN et al). By that logic, Israel is a UK/US ally; Palestine is not.

  113. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    12 Oct, 2013 - 11:44 pm

    Tech;

    “ally (v.)
    late 13c., “to join in marriage,” from Old French alier “combine, unite,” from a differentiated stem of aliier (from Latin alligare “bind to;” see alloy). Meaning “to form an alliance, join, associate” is late 14c. Related: allied; allying.

    ‘marriage’, ‘bind-to’ ;sounds a little more intimate and committed than the fair-weather friends who have cobbled a mutually beneficial arrangement on a temporary basis.

  114. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    12 Oct, 2013 - 11:48 pm

  115. Professor James Petras is not the first person to call Barack Obama, “a Zionist lackey”.

    Dr. Gideon Polya, Australian lecturer and writer, on September 29, 2012 while commenting on president Barack Obama’s speech at the UN General Assembly, also called Barack Obama “Zionist Lackey”.

    America’s leading foreign policy expert and Obama’s former national security advisor, Zbigniew Brzezinski, in a speech at an event organized by the National American Iranian Council (NAIC) and the Arms Control Association in Washington on November 26, 2012, claimed that US administration is lead by the nose by pro-Israel Jewish groups like a stupid mule.

    http://rehmat1.com/2013/10/12/james-petras-obama-is-a-zionist-lackey/

  116. Interesting etymology, thanks: will go and see when the UK last switched sides. Preferable if it acted as a peaceful broker, obviously, but there would have to be seriousness and a feeling of security (or bloody mindedness) for that to happen.

  117. I mean, obviously it armed Iraq and then exploded Iraq, and cosied up to Gadaffi and then devastated Libya, and – but apart from that.

  118. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    13 Oct, 2013 - 12:14 am

    Saddam was a US ally, until he threatened oil flow in the Gulf and dissed the Petrodollar.

    “BECAUSE OF Washington’s intervention, the Iran-Iraq War went in Iraq’s favor, and Iran was forced to concede defeat in 1988. For the next two years, the U.S. openly built up Saddam Hussein as its new strongman in the region. Weapons, high-tech equipment, technical assistance and economic aid flowed into the country.

    U.S. leaders went to bat for the Iraqi regime against critics of its human rights abuses. In April 1990, four months before Iraq invaded Kuwait, a delegation of U.S. senators visited Baghdad and assured Saddam that Washington supported him. Sen. Bob Dole (R-Kan.) promised that George Bush Sr. would veto threatened sanctions, and Sen. Alan Simpson (R-Wyo.) attacked the “haughty and pampered” media that criticized Saddam’s regime.

    When Saddam summoned U.S. Ambassador to Iraq April Glaspie to threaten military action against Kuwait for poaching Iraqi oil, Glasbie told Saddam, “we have no opinion on Arab-Arab conflicts like your border disagreement with Kuwait.” In the end, it wasn’t Saddam’s brutal repression or his war crimes in the Iran-Iraq War that turned the U.S. government against him.

    Only after Iraq’s August 1990 invasion of Kuwait, which threatened the flow of oil through the Persian Gulf, did Washington discover that its ally was “the butcher of Baghdad.” Over the next six months, Bush Sr. organized a massive buildup of U.S. troops and weapons for one of the most destructive wars in modern history.”

    http://socialistworker.org/2004-1/480/480_05_SaddamHussein.shtml

  119. Well, shucks, we are just your second lieutenant and all…

  120. This looks potentially positive/interesting/uplifting/upsetting – haven’t checked it out (it’s late):

    http://www.foodfirst.org/en/GMO+corn+banned+in+Mexico

  121. But France have definitely just upheld their fracking ban:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-2448998

  122. @ Ben,

    Blood is red wherever it flows. To see a dead Israeli/Palestinian/Iraqi/Afghan/etc., child breaks one’s heart. If not, one’s considered to be a monster.

    Can you believe it I was even rooting for Ron to run the country back in the day?

    And here’s Rummy shaking hands.

    A World Order I do believe in.

  123. straitjacket

    13 Oct, 2013 - 1:07 am

    Very gratifying, the way the international community just flows around US obstruction and opens another path forward for rule of law.

    - The US and its satellites try to shred CCPR Article 17, UDHR Article 12, American Declaration Articles V, IX, and X, American Convention Article 11, and ECHR Article 8…

    Then this fellow Snowden pops up to expose US government crimes and makes a hair-raising break for it, against all odds, through SCO members Russia and China. ICANN, IANA and the BRICS concur on the need to internationalize internet governance.

    - The US fights tooth and nail to maintain impunity for its criminals (nuclear arms merchants like Marc Grossman; torturers like Petraeus, Black, Addington, Steel, Bush, and Comey; perpetrators of grave domestic breaches of Common Article 3 like Rumsfeld, Cheney, Meyers, Bowman, Brennan and Blee)…

    Then the international community revives disarmament. The US finds itself a useless bystander to disarmament initiatives, kicked to the curb for the OPCW in Syria, and collectively thumbed in the eye for the preferment of its nemesis Iran. Scrutiny of commercial armaments procurement, which got lost when the League of Nations gave way to the UN, comes back. The SIPRI Arms Transfer Database and the UN Register of Conventional Arms will look under the rocks and expose the death merchants who run the US security sector.

    The US population can’t get its government under control, so the world is doing it.

  124. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    13 Oct, 2013 - 1:11 am

    Awesome music vid. I too, am a little late to awareness. Innocence is hard to give up, but imagine if you visit a family with a 10 month old child, then after an absence of a decade you return for a visit and find a family with a 10 month-old child, undeveloped. It would no longer be an adorable miracle, but a living tragedy.

    I supported HHH in ’68 because I thought McCarthy couldn’t win. I like to think I have progressed since those days, because my pragmatic early years makes me a bit twisted, as now I am much more radical as opposed to the traditional path of liberal to conservative over the course of time. It’s always been a fantasy of mine to live backwards, like Merlin. Hey! I am living in a fantasy. :)

  125. Pentagon faked arrival ceremonies honoring fallen soldiers

    The Pentagon has been holding phony “arrival” ceremonies for fallen soldiers at a base in Hawaii for over seven years, according to recent statements made by the United States Department of Defense to NBC News.

    For nearly a decade, military personnel transported flag-draped coffins containing the bodies of troops killed in action from seemingly just-arrived cargo planes during ceremonies near hangar 35 at Joint Base Pearl Harbor-Hickam.

    In reality, however, the remains of those soldiers may have spent upwards of months in military custody before being paraded out during partially-fabricated ceremonial presentations carried out by the government’s Joint Prisoner of War Accounting Command, or JPAC.

    Bill Dedman, an investigative reporter for NBC, said that the Pentagon confirmed this week “that no honored dead were in fact arriving, and that the planes used in the ceremonies often couldn’t even fly but were towed into position

    Hollywood gone wild.

  126. Muslims Are Now To U.S. What Jews Were To Hitler

    The arrest and conviction of Muslims on flimsy conspiracy charges often instigated by FBI informants reveals the spreading corruption in the American legal system.
    “After 9/11/2001 the Bush/Obama administrations have constructed an American Police State using Arabs and Muslims as their pretexts and scapegoats,” says Francis Boyle, distinguished international legal authority and professor of law at the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign. “It is reminiscent of the Nazi government’s persecution of the German Jews before the outbreak of World War II. Arabs and Muslims have become the New Jews in Police State America that is now slouching towards a military dictatorship and World War III.”

    Of course this is all a Muslim propaganda, there is no such victimisation. Muslims are asking for it, by being Muslims, they should all change their religion, and denounce their extremism, and become atheists, believing; god never grows limbs for the amputees and does not give out free beer, so there is no god.

  127. Blimey,

    Craig Murray is Mentioned in Dispatches – AGAIN

    Even Joe Quinn of SOTT – is Copying Him

    I always found it the sincerest form of flattery.

    Tony

  128. “Can you save me the research and tell me if you are aware of the relative accessibility to those shares by the ‘average’ Joe Blog and minimum application/allotment thresholds, etc?”

    The allotment of the shares has been carefully designed to fulfil the long term plan of give control of Royal Mail to T.N.T without being obvious.

  129. kedem forever

    13 Oct, 2013 - 4:52 am

    A deafening silence from the ziotrolls (for truth and justice, no less, bah!) here regarding the monstrous gas murder of 426 children in Ghouta, to serve as an excuse for war against Assad, monster satanyahu’s “live intercept” complicity and Lithuanian Rifkind’s virtuoso performance on the floor of the Commons shilling for war based on Bandars YouTube gassing videos and satanyahu’s “live” 8200 intercepts.

    BTW – it will be interesting to see the transcripts of the faked 8200 intercepts, if they come up to Comical Shlomo propaganda standards of the famed “auschwitz” Mavi Marmara audio tapes!! Comical Ali lived up to his reputation by forgetting to digitally fuzz the faces of the Alawite children from Latakia, used as “props” in the Ghouta YouTube videos. Pure EVIL.

    At this rate the Gharqad tree may change its mind !!

  130. zionist lackeys? how about the entire MSM.

    only the Jewish Forward finds this coincidence worth commenting on:

    9 October – Forward – Janet Yellen Brings Jewish Side to Fed — Again
    Yellen, whose nomination to head America’s central bank was reported Tuesday, will follow her immediate predecessor Ben Bernanke who was Jewish, and Bernanke’s immediate predecessor, Alan Greenspan, who was Jewish, too. There have been two other Jewish fed chairs in the past century. In fact, the other frontrunner for the position, Lawrence Summers, was Jewish too…
    http://blogs.forward.com/forward-thinking/185284/janet-yellen-brings-jewish-side-to-fed-again/

    funny how MSM all reported only on the first “woman” part!

    9 October – Forward – Janet Yellen, First Jewish Woman Fed Chair, Brings Compassion to Tough Job
    http://forward.com/articles/185369/janet-yellen-first-jewish-woman-fed-chair-brings-c/

  131. re MSM silence on Yellen’s faith.

    would they have been silent if an individual of any other minority faith was so over-represented in such a position of power, including for an unbroken period from 1987 (appt of Alan Greenspan) to the present?

  132. the same unexamined, unexplained over-representation occurs at the Supreme Court, where 3 out of nine current Justices are of the Jewish faith:

    List of Jewish United States Supreme Court justices
    Louis Brandeis became the first Jewish justice of the Supreme Court of the United States in 1916, following nomination by President Woodrow Wilson, and a contentious confirmation. Towards the end of his tenure on the Supreme Court, Brandeis was joined by the nation’s second Jewish justice, Benjamin Cardozo in 1932, who was succeeded by Felix Frankfurter, Arthur Goldberg and Abe Fortas. Eight Jewish justices have served on the Court, including the three currently serving, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen Breyer and Elena Kagan…
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_United_States_Supreme_Court_justices

    might as well consider Sotomayor a fourth!

    2009 – Haaretz – Sonia Sotomayor – a poster child for Jewish-Hispanic relations
    U.S. Jews rally around Obama’s nominee for U.S. Supreme Court Justice, a Puerto Rican with strong ties to Israel
    Jewish groups don’t endorse U.S. Supreme Court nominees, at least in writing.
    The tears and choked sobs when Sonia Sotomayor accepted President Obama’s nomination on Tuesday told another story…
    In 1986, when she was in private legal practice, she joined one of the first young leadership tours of Israel sponsored by Project Interchange, which is affiliated with the American Jewish Committee.
    Sotomayor so enjoyed the country—its immigrant culture, its popular music influenced heavily by Jewish immigrants from Argentina and Brazil—that she made a return visit in 1996 when she was a federal judge, and recently joined a Project Interchange U.S.-Israel forum on immigration. In the process, she formed a lifelong friendship with Project Interchange founder Debbie Berger and her husband, Paul, who attended her swearing-in as a Manhattan appeals court judge in 1998…
    http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/2.209/sonia-sotomayor-a-poster-child-for-jewish-hispanic-relations-1.277229

  133. From Terror Through Time, Fergal Keene’s series on Radio 4, to be broadcast tomorrow at 13.45.

    The Murderous Mandate
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03cdzlz – not available on iplayer yet.

    In April 1947 a young French woman talked her way past the guard of Dover House in Whitehall. She told him she was desperate to use the toilet. In fact Betty Knut was there to plant a bomb at the very heart of the Empire. It proved just how far some militants were willing to go in their campaign to remove the British from Palestine.

    In part six of Fergal Keane’s exploration of the changing nature of terrorism, he’s joined by historian David Cesarani and former member of the Jewish underground, Hanna Armoni, to tell the story of the dedicated groups that turned their bombs and bullets against the British occupation.
    Producer: Alasdair Cross.

    Friday’s episode (“Stirring the Middle East”), in case you missed it, is still available on http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03c47gk

    Stirring the Middle East
    Duration: 15 minutes
    First broadcast:Friday 11 October 2013

    Fergal Keane on the British promises in WW1 that provoked conflict in the Middle East.

    The collapse of the Ottoman Empire after the First World War created a tangle of real and potential conflicts for world leaders to unpick.

    The toughest nut to crack would be the future of Palestine. In the course of the war Britain, in its desperate quest for allies, made three apparently contradictory promises. A secret deal with France divided future control of the Middle East between the two allies, the Sharif of Mecca was offered a new Arab kingdom and support for a Jewish homeland had been given to the Zionists.

    Fergal Keane explores how Britain tried and failed to untangle the knots, setting the scene for so much of the violence to come in the Middle East.

  134. A Node Spot on ref the ‘Royal Mail’.

    Moya Greene was brought in to set the UK postal service up for privatisation, as she did in Canada.* They have not acted at the same speed as Gideon and Vince though.

    She arrived at the end of May, 2010, three weeks after the election, to replace Crozier who went off with his £millions. Presumably she was appointed by Brown.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moya_Greene

    Crozier went off from the Royal Mail (paid £3m in his final year) to pick up even more at ITV. He also has a directorship with G4S. recently acquired. Knighthood or peerage to follow in due course!

    New ITV boss Adam Crozier to pick up £2.9m ‘golden hello’ payment as part of an £18m five-year deal
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1258986/New-ITV-boss-Adam-Crozier-pick-multi-million-pound-golden-hello-payment.html

    *’Privatization
    There have been calls for the privatization of Canada Post. Supporters of privatization contend that the public sector is more labour intensive and uses less capital than the private sector, resulting in state owned enterprises that are less productive.[36] Some argue that the economic crisis coupled with deficit spending makes Canada Post a prime candidate for privatization.[37] Supporters of privatization point to the United Kingdom, Finland, New Zealand and Sweden, which have given up on the government-enforced monopoly on mail delivery and have exposed their former monopoly mail providers to competition.[38] Additionally, 27 European Union member states have also agreed to end government monopolies on mail delivery.[38] Critics also point to the Netherlands, which fully privatized its postal service which had previously expanded into foreign markets and diversified business. The Netherlands Post had invested in TNT’s courier operations with Canada Post. Canada Post sold those interests prior to buying a majority stake in Purolator Courier.[38] In 2009, a study conducted at the University of Toronto by Professor Edward Iacobucci and other colleagues concluded that privatization of Canada Post would result in “efficiency gains and improvements in service quality”.[36]‘
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_Post

    Neo-liberalism and its servants rule.

  135. More of those jolly trips to Israel by 21 members of LDFoI and LFoI led by Simon Hughes and Jim Murphy respectively.

    http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/112280/labour-and-lib-dems-israel-visits

  136. resident dissident

    13 Oct, 2013 - 8:27 am

    @Technicolour

    “I think real pressure for change will come from the largely decent people inside Israel itself which is why I thoroughly object to a mindset which seeks to conflate ‘Jewish’ with ‘Israeli goverment’ and which would repel most Jewish people as a result.”

    I agree – and I have no problem with saying that Cast Lead was “terror” – I used “bad behaviour” as it is a wider term which encompasses terror as well as many other things.

    AS for conflation of Jewish and Israeli please note there are amny examples on this blog including one/two since my last posting.

  137. This is yet another Briton who loves his country so much that he is quitting its shores to become a tax exile.

    Sir Richard Branson quits Britain for Caribbean tax haven
    13 Oct 2013
    The Virgin boss, 63, has left Blighty for Necker, his private island in the British Virgin Islands
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sir-richard-branson-quits-britain-2366520

    His Virgin Care outfit has been allowed to shaft OUR NHS big time but the patients don’t know. Friends of mine, who should be well informed but are not, are surprised to receive communications about NHS appointments and procedures on Virgin Care stationery,

    How private firms already run frontline NHS services by stealth
    29 May 2013
    More than 100 services across the NHS are run by Sir Richard Branson’s Virgin – the people who bring you planes, trains and telly
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nhs-privatisation-how-private-firms-1918235

  138. There is a tendency among some Murrayistas, most notably Mary, to post links about politicians’ trips to Israel as if these by themselves condemn those making them as fervent Zionists. It’s the sort of lazy assumption we are used to seeing from Mary as she makes her early morning sweep through the Jewish Chronicle.

    Regarding Simon Hughes’ visit, I see he also visited the Palestinian territories and has made visits exclusively to Palestine in the past. Hughes is regarded by pro-Israel commenters in this country (see the JC, The Commentator, Melanie Philips) as dangerously pro-Palestinian. He defended Jenny Tonge, he criticized Israel over Cast Lead and the Mavi Marmara.

    “I have always described myself as both a friend of Palestine and a friend of Israel. I have been actively supporting the case for a Palestinian state since I was a teenager and have always argued that Israel has a right to exist with secure boundaries. I have had the privilege of visiting the area on several occasions, and although I have yet to have the opportunity to go to Gaza, I have frequently visited the west bank.”

    –Hansard 15 June 2010

  139. Habbabkuk, I think Oddie would like prominent Jews to wear a little Jewish badge for easy identification. Welcome back by the way.

  140. resident dissident

    13 Oct, 2013 - 9:12 am

    Perhpas Mary might wish to comment on Technicolour’s comment that “the real pressure for change will come from decent people within Israel” and consider how best to engage, encourage and support such people – does she really believe that cutting them off from the rest of the world will help? Or perhaps she sees some other mechanism as being the way forward – if so could she elucidate as to what it is?

  141. Troll alert inc the banned one!

  142. Numerous attempts to engage Mary in discussion and all we get is:

    “Troll alert inc the banned one!”

  143. The thread has gone to fuck, it is a ziofuckwit circle jerk, not worth reading.

  144. If its Sunday, its Fedup. Weekdays its Passerby at ‘work’.

  145. “Mary
    13 Oct, 2013 – 9:15 am
    Troll alert inc the banned one!”

    Tut tut Mary, for all that you post, is that really all you have to say?

  146. If its Sunday, its Fedup. Weekdays its Passerby at ‘work’.

    Villager/Technicolour is all the time so what the fuck does it matter?

    Now fucking divining, and fortune telling, next will be foretelling fuck knows what?

  147. “next will be foretelling fuck knows what?”

    Passerby and Fedup talking with each other.

  148. Technicolour
    13 Oct, 2013 – 12:35 am
    “This looks potentially positive/interesting/uplifting/upsetting – haven’t checked it out (it’s late):

    http://www.foodfirst.org/en/GMO+corn+banned+in+Mexico

    Thanks for that TC — very interesting read and highly encouraging, if true and actually effected.

    I tried googling Mexico GMO in News though and nothing comes up to corroborate. Do please keep a look out…

  149. Our very sick little puppy said
    “Habbabkuk, I think Oddie would like prominent Jews to wear a little Jewish badge for easy identification. Welcome back by the way.”

    How much rubbish can you write in one sentence? I suppose these twatter trained 140 character jokers do believe they own this site and are hell bent on destroying it with their ad hominems.

    Banned clowns seemingly addicted to Craig murrays like flies too a pile of dogshit? payed stooges who contribute nothing but spite and bile.

    Why only prominant Jews Anon, you filth stirer?, and why not include the have’s, all those scroungers who hate Britain so much that they flee to tax havens, show how much social responsibility they really have.

    Lets note that these tax evaders who hate their country so much need to be pummeled with knighthoods and honours, given accolade to use a toilet here in britain rather than the T&C.

    Those who hide behind international agreements to siphon billions past the exchequer should have a cross permanently tattoed to their foreheads, these utter swines should have their business natinalised and their markets withdrawn.

    It is time for a revolution, nothing else will stop this undemocratic rot, time to tell those who hate Britain enough to avoid taxes, that they cannot school their children here, or sell their goods, or go shopping at Harrods for their xmas hampers, that they are not welcome and that limited protectionismn, has been tailored to suit them alone.

    Nobody who relies on British schools, the NHS, a pirateering City of London, bendy politicians and Kendal mint cakes to stimulate their sordid lifes, whilst trying their best to not pay for any of societies needs, should expect any mercy, pay your taxes or go and sell your coffee, flights,whatever, somewhere else.

    You want to leave the City of London because you don’t want your bnuses curtailed? well go, piss off to Frankfurt or New York, see if they haven’t got enough bwankers there. Bye bye, I say.

    For George Osborne to steal/use taxpayers money to sue the EU for daring to tell the City to get their act together on bonuses, stop the stress and drug taking at the centre of so many dealing rooms were it is an incentive/necessity to get brainfucked for an extra six hours work on top of a three day shift, is the most obscene measure ever seen used by a chancellor.

    This nonchalance towards millionaires and the leniency shown towards bankers, newspaper editors, so called entrepeneurs who hate Britain and don’t pay taxes here, rather favouring state support for new Swiss cowbells, has been widely noted and it is to be seen how many more fairytales they can land on to the now suspecting public, before they have enough of the troughing and act.

  150. So Mr. Murphy, off course as a FoI leading schmuck he did not loose his job in Ed’s cabinet reshuffle, headed another of these cheap group activity holidays, paid for by Israel? or us the taxpayer, to the occupied territories of East Jerusalem, the Syrian Golan hights and the west bank.

    We have to realise that this country has a better relationship with Israel than with any of their EU neighbours, it is part of a triumvirate that ignores its needs for the sake of conspiracy.

    Should limited protectionism be used to bring errant countries into line, economic necessities be used to negotiate and calm the warmongering nations?

  151. “seemingly addicted to Craig murrays like flies too a pile of dogshit?”

    A rather unfortunate analogy, wouldn’t you say?

    Q: “How much rubbish can you write in one sentence? ”

    A: This much:

    “For George Osborne to steal/use taxpayers money to sue the EU for daring to tell the City to get their act together on bonuses, stop the stress and drug taking at the centre of so many dealing rooms were it is an incentive/necessity to get brainfucked for an extra six hours work on top of a three day shift, is the most obscene measure ever seen used by a chancellor.”

    and

    “This nonchalance towards millionaires and the leniency shown towards bankers, newspaper editors, so called entrepeneurs who hate Britain and don’t pay taxes here, rather favouring state support for new Swiss cowbells, has been widely noted and it is to be seen how many more fairytales they can land on to the now suspecting public, before they have enough of the troughing and act.”

    As Glenn_uk once asked another “are you anti-semantic” or something?

  152. Hi Nevermind!

    A forceful post as ever. Who was that American serial killer and rapist you compared me to, merely for holding opinions different to yours? Quite the sick little puppy!

    “Banned clowns seemingly addicted to Craig murrays like flies too a pile of dogshit?”

    I can live with being likened to a fly, but I hope you will apologise to Craig for comparing his blog to a pile of dogshit.

    Now, you take umbrage at my post about Oddie. He wonders aloud why the media doesn’t inform us that various prominent people are Jewish. Is it really “filth-stirring” to suggest that Oddie might like to see Jews wear little star of david lapel badges for ease of identification, if the MSM keeps failing to inform him?

  153. “Habbabkuk, I think Oddie would like prominent Jews to wear a little Jewish badge for easy identification. Welcome back by the way.”

    “Thank you for your welcome back!
    If you’re correct, then I think I’ll try to attract some venture capital to set up a business manufacturing such badges, because there are certainly a lot of Jews prominent in various walks of life.”

    Surely your venture capitalists would suggest star and crescent badges, perhaps in yellow and sewn on, as more appropriate to the times.

    & Habbabkuk, you are a hypocritical piece of shit. Last time you were here, as an authorised commenter, as part of your relentless bullying you called a regular contributor here a “self-righteous obsessive poster”.

    Now who’s the obsessive one. You can’t keep away, though you’ve been banned. So desperately obsessed with posting here are you that you’ve even tried the deceit of sock puppeting to get back in. You creep.

  154. I agree with oddie that those who profess that they are our representatives in Parliament, activeley split their loyaties 60/40 in favour of Israel, a non EU country and rogue state in more than one sense, they all should be held responsible for their actions.

    They do not need any specific atire, their actins speak for themselves as they are not in the in terest of our British foreign policy but soome concocted dream induced by some very nationalistic zionists who misuse their power, relationships and money to divert our interest to suit their needs.

    I do not differentiate the ransosn from the Murphy’s, they both need reigning in and made to believe in what they represent.

    ‘Oye, ransom Branson, kite oarding, record ballon flights and putting your name behind the decriminalisation/legalisation of cannbis is not enough to make you hip, try paying your taxes in Britain, boare, or loose your market’

    Never shall I use virgin, ever! in my own small way, sorted!

  155. apolgiese for my fast typing mistakes.

    Our foreign relations are being distorted and undermined by Israels con nivance. Liars are fettered for high office whilst those who speak the truth are hounded and denigrated as spies, put in prison for ‘hurting our operatives and men in the field’

    Lies heaped upon lies, amplified by the BBC over and over again, last heard on Dimbleby’s ‘any answers’R4, as a justification to clamp down on those who speak out aout the damage don e to us in the name of….. more controlling dreams.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/12/edward-snowden-nsa-surveillance-wikileaks-videos

  156. “authorised commenter” Rouge LOL! How subtle is the world of authority you wish to live in!?

  157. Jack Straw, who is one of the characters who has most to fear from the truth coming out, is off course the first one to denigrate the Guardian and Wikileaks for telling us what he’s been up to.

    Craig will be vindicated, eventually, for having a spine and speaking up against these psychopath and control freaks.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10372603/Jack-Straw-Guardian-has-shown-extraordinary-naivety-and-arrogance-in-leaks.html

    My direct question to Edward Snowden would be

    ‘Have you seen evidence that Jack Straw, when in power as Jutice minister, signed people off for torture and extraordinary rendition?’

  158. “Craig will be vindicated, eventually, for having a spine and speaking up against these psychopath and control freaks.”

    ‘Eventually’?

    What is your premise that he doesn’t already stand vindicated based upon?

  159. resident dissident 12 Oct, 2013 – 10:28 pm

    IBTW if anyone gets involved in name calling etc. on my last post – don’t bother that is where I stand and it will take more than silly names to shift me.

    I

    Hear hear, good for you. I feel exactly the same about your totally unprovoked ad hominem which appeared a few hours later.

    resident dissident 12 Oct, 2013 – 2:32 pm

    Ah the Hitler avatar , the tried and tested tactic of a d***head with nothing of any consequence to say…………..

    As for the ‘Hitler’ comment, well that’s just as pathetic as the daily promotion of the bogeyman himself. Are you so dim as not to find any semblance or post-modern irony in my avatar? What if he had a big bushy moustach – would that be Stalin or Saddam, or just a smiley face with a bushy moustach?

    It is not right to belittle the little Austrian puppet that gets dragged out every five minutes to fool us into beleiving we are not part of the same fascist empire as the one he promoted? How can we be fascists, we fought the fascists right? A classic mind trap that most are too ignorant to even see. Follow the money and cui bono? The international bankers start the international wars for power and control, they decide when they start, they decide who will fight, not their puppet politicians.

  160. Villager
    13 Oct, 2013 – 11:51 am
    ‘“authorised commenter” Rouge LOL! How subtle is the world of authority you wish to live in!?’

    As, I’m sure, even you are aware, in this context, “authorised” means “not banned”. Is that simple enough for you?

  161. Daniel Rich
    12 Oct, 2013 – 9:20 pm

    “It is so darn easy to speculate and even easier to guess one way or another, but it looks to me that what was once considered to be that ‘middle class’ chunk of society [in the past], has been slam-dunked into the financial blenders of $$-churning banksters and thus rendered obsolete, sidelined and completely obliterated. With no option but to hang on to the rafters of too big to jail fraudsters and one paycheck away from total poverty, how much do they care about NSA spying or Fukushima’s meltdown?.”

    Looks like you’re right. An inquiry carried out in the UK reveals that the middle class is on the way down:

    “Today’s middle-class children are on track to be the first in more than a century to be materially less well off in adulthood than their parents, a government commission is expected to warn this week.”

    As one commenter remarks:

    “The creed of venality of neo-liberalism just means less wealth for the rest of society as the minority hoover it up and take it off shore never to be taxed.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/oct/12/middle-class-young-people-future-worse-parents

  162. I do not make a daily trawl of the JC. I leave that to its Jewish readers.

    The defence of the Friends of Israel groups in OUR Parliament above is disingenuous and risible.

    Hughes: ‘Delegations of senior party officials from both Liberal Democrat and Labour parties have returned from trips to Israel.

    Lib Dem deputy leader Simon Hughes led an 11-strong group on a visit organised by the Liberal Democrat Friends of Israel. The group went to the Golan Heights, Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, and also held meetings with Palestinian groups in Ramallah.

    Mr Hughes said the visit had given him a unique and insightful perspective. Israel’s right to exist within secure borders must never be called into question or compromised, but the Palestinians also deserve their own sovereign nation unencumbered by external forces.”

    He promised that the party would support the current peace talks.”

    Did he have to make another visit to Israel (previous 2012 and 2011) to decide that there should be a Palestinian state. He knows damned well that that will never happen. He also knows that the ‘peace talks’ are a sham., a piece of theatre like the Chilcot Inquiry, flim flam.

    The FoI’s allegiance to Israel is treason pure and simple. Offord has just set up a All Party Parliamentary Group for British Jews, which the British Board of Deputies are supporting.
    http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/112292/all-party-group-starts-20-members

    How many more groups do the Jewish MPs want? There are the three FoIs, one APPG for Anti-Semitism, another for Israel and this new one. Similar organisations exist in the EU mainly to promote Israel’s trade interests.

    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmallparty/register/israel.htm
    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmallparty/register/antisemitism.htm

    I notice Hughes has membership of the APPG for Palestine for good measure.
    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmallparty/register/palestine.htm

  163. ‘Eventually’?

    What is your premise that he doesn’t already stand vindicated based upon?

    Let me explain it to you, villager, it means society will eventually vindicate Craig for his principled actions, which, imho, have made Britain a better place.

    Myself and thousands of others in the world, speaking up and writing on blods such as this, have already realised and accepted this fact a long time ago. Got that?

    Its only the nit pickers and doubting Thomas’s who try and divert the agenda, here and elsewhere, whether its in pay and to adjust for their s(hr)inking middle class standing or just sheer ignorance.

    I suppose we can’t stop the poor devils trying to make a buck with their fingertips.

  164. Kristallnacht all over again, or would that be Israeli UKIP supporters?
    http://electronicintifada.net/content/video-israeli-crowd-cheers-africans-called-slaves/12833

  165. Me, earlier: “What is your premise that he doesn’t already stand vindicated based upon?”

    You still haven’t answered my question. Instead you’ve gone further in contradicting yourself. Please supply evidence to your assertion that he doesn’t already stand vindicated.

  166. Bad luck if you live in Cornwall (or are on holiday there at any time) and you need a doctor out of hours. This is what happens when the NHS is privatised and the service is fragmented. The outsourcers want to outsource their contract. More pressure on the ambulance services and on the A&E depts. will be the result.

    This dreadful situation with Serco has existed for a long time. Their executives have even appeared in front of a HoC committee on their lies and cover ups.

    ‘Serco talks over out-of-hours GP cover could ‘fragment’ service
    MP Andrew George said Serco should “hand back the keys if they can’t do the job”

    Talks over out-of-hours GP service
    GP service had ‘bullying culture’
    Whistleblowers ‘uncovered’ problems

    An MP has said attempts by the operator of Cornwall’s out-of-hours GP service to subcontract its frontline work will result in a fragmented health service.

    /..
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-24511605

    The committee report – Nrs Hodge again

    http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/public-accounts-committee/news/out-of-ours-gp-service-in-cornwall/

  167. This is a sad story of a family burned to death, and the head of the household expressing his sorrow and grief;

    Link text

    A grieving neurosurgeon whose family died in a suspected arson attack has told mourners at a funeral service that he is a bird without wings.

    Dr Muhammad Taufiq Al Sattar led prayers for the 1,000 people who attended the janaza ceremony in Dublin in memory of his wife Shehnila Taufiq, 47, and their three teenage children, Zainab, Bilal and Jamil

    Eight people have been charged in connection with a feared revenge attack at their home in Wood Hill, Leicester, on 13 September, following a fatal assault in nearby Kent Street.

    This is the degenerate ziofuckwits pouring their bile and venom, in the comments section;

    First glance I thought this might be a tragic fire from cooking with wood on an enclosed patio. Worse yet, real barbarity by primitive third worlders. And the Irish want the Brits off the island? Might want to deal with these sorts of things first.

    Also note the points arising; where are the women at this funeral?. Not content with that then the notions of “Goyim kill goyim, and they blame the Jews.”* Applying the following is added;

    Immigrants not born in the UK, attacking immigrants not born in the UK; Whilst the indigenous people dare say nothing about this overt ethnic cleansing !

    These degenerate fuckwits, have no soul, no humanity and no fucking shame, their ideological zeal has blinded these degenerate ziofuckwits to all but their own supremacist visions of “paradise” on Earth.

    Indeed Muslims Are Now To US What Jews Were To Hitler. AIPAC has been truly successful.

    * ” Israel’s alleged role in the massacre mounted” that is twenty five years after the event, while everybody knows, is certain, but apparently it still remains “alleged”! Less said about Menachem Begin, …… was not always politically correct.

  168. technicolour

    13 Oct, 2013 - 2:10 pm

    “RD: Perhpas Mary might wish to comment on Technicolour’s comment that “the real pressure for change will come from decent people within Israel” and consider how best to engage, encourage and support such people – does she really believe that cutting them off from the rest of the world will help? Or perhaps she sees some other mechanism as being the way forward – if so could she elucidate as to what it is?”

    -Well, sanctions and boycotts played a vital role in ending apartheid in South Africa. And making sure that the reality in/news from Palestine and Gaza gets out, and gets acknowledged, is important, I think.

  169. technicolour

    13 Oct, 2013 - 2:28 pm

    Reality of/relevant news from anywhere is important, obviously.

  170. Its all about information flows and who infroms us, Villager, do you think that public who does little care about politics, because they are turned off, are as educated on Craigs principled stance and court vindication, as you and I are?

    Now go back kissing Habby’s backside, or try and join Ellen in a bit of shimmying.

    http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/health/dereham_residents_love_a_little_bit_of_shimmying_1_2879055

  171. Villager your like

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Salacious_B._Crumb

    hanging off habba the huts every word

  172. Crumb became something of a fixture in Habba’s court, teasing, mocking and cackling at practically anyone and everyone who visited the forum. He sat at the base of Habba’s dias, sleeping and eating when there was nothing to be made fun of
    Habba was very fond of the little monkey-lizard, though most others were not…

  173. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    13 Oct, 2013 - 3:57 pm

    Today’s suspicious observers news. If you are following events above and below Earth’s surface, these guys are pretty knowledgeable and reliable.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LZuUX13s78&feature=c4-overview&list=UUTiL1q9YbrVam5nP2xzFTWQ

  174. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    13 Oct, 2013 - 4:06 pm

    Two years have passed since Moc left Japan and resettled in Romania. Although the numbers are being repressed, it’s quite clear many are leaving the Island. My prediction; Japan will be uninhabited within 10 years.

    http://fukushima-diary.com/2013/10/column-we-can-change-our-future/

  175. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    13 Oct, 2013 - 4:21 pm

    JA doesn’t like the new movie 5th Estate.

    http://wikileaks.org/First-Letter-from-Julian-Assange.html

  176. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    13 Oct, 2013 - 5:37 pm

    @ Nevermind

    “I agree with oddie that those who profess that they are our representatives in Parliament, activeley split their loyaties 60/40 in favour of Israel, a non EU country and rogue state in more than one sense, they all should be held responsible for their actions.

    They do not need any specific atire, their actins speak for themselves as they are not in the in terest of our British foreign policy but soome concocted dream induced by some very nationalistic zionists who misuse their power, relationships and money to divert our interest to suit their needs.”
    ________________

    Thank you for pointing out my mistake, and apologies.

    You see, when Oddie posted about the Jewish faith of the new head of the FED, the number of Jewish Associate Justices on the Supreme Court and the Jewish friends of Associate Justice Sotomayor, I mistakenly assumed he was talking about the FED, the Supreme Court and AJ Sotomayor, and it was most remiss of me not to have realised that he was, in fact, talking about “those who profess that they are our representatives in Parliament, actively split their loyaties 60/40 in favour of Israel”, ie, British Members of Parliament.

    I’m glad to read that you wouldn’t favor making them wear a distinctive sign, though, but I’m puzzled by an apparent contradiction with what you wrote about Richard Branson, viz “Why only prominant Jews Anon, you filth stirer?, and why not include the have’s, all those scroungers who hate Britain so much that they flee to tax havens, show how much social responsibility they really have.” Most grateful if you would be kind enough to clarify.

    ********************

    Always look on the bright side of life!

  177. At first I considered a response, but your contributions are zilch here, so why should I; finally, and most important, its sunday and I shall take the rest of the evening off.

  178. More on the Royal Mail privatisation.

    A right royal rip-off – What the Royal Mail privatisation tells us about modern Britain
    http://rt.com/op-edge/uk-royal-mail-privatization-destruction-073/

    I have mentioned the property portfolio before. Some further details here.

  179. And while we are on the subject of ‘royal’ matters. here’s a good one from Heathcote Williams for Sunday night. There’s nothing on the box!

    How Queen Elizabeth II profits from the arms trade
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOFm6a8LytU&feature=youtu.be

  180. Nevermind
    13 Oct, 2013 – 2:37 pm
    “Its all about information flows and who infroms us, Villager, do you think that public who does little care about politics, because they are turned off, are as educated on Craigs principled stance and court vindication, as you and I are?”

    You did fine up to this point, Nevermind and we could agree on this.

    But then you turned to animus and came up with what Mary would call playground stuff.

    My point remains:

    Craig already stands vindicated and has paid an unfortunate price. Period. Whether the whole world has ‘seen’ that and recognised, or only some of us have, is another point. They are two different things. Ask Craig, I don’t think he’ll tell you that he’s waiting around looking to be vindicated “eventually”. If you insist on “eventually”, you had better define the ‘events’ you are waiting upon to occur.

    And try not to bristle and get nasty without provocation.

  181. “And try not to bristle and get nasty without provocation.”

    About me or my good friend, Habby. Important, but small, afterthought. I hope you don’t mind, Nevermind.

  182. Our posts crossed Habby as i hadn’t refreshed.

    If only people here had a sense of humour as sharp as their need to abuse.

    Any offerings anyone on this quiet Sunday evening? Will check back after dinner.

  183. GCHQ accused of monitoring privileged emails between lawyers and clients
    Allegation relates to eight Libyan nationals and comes in wake of Guardian’s revelations about GCHQ and Tempora programme
    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/13/gchq-accused-monitoring-privileged-emails-lawyer-client-libya

    ‘The eight Libyans, members of two families now living in the country’s capital, Tripoli, say they were victims of rendition. They claim they were kidnapped by MI6 and US intelligence agencies, forcibly returned to Colonel Muammar Gaddafi’s regime and tortured. At that time, in 2004, when Gaddafi relinquished his nuclear weapons programme, intelligence relations between Tripoli, London and Washington were close.

    A landmark legal action between Abdel Belhaj, 47, and the UK government is due to be heard at the high court shortly to resolve the kidnap and torture allegations.’

    No words.

  184. @oddie

    The Jewish Daily Forward is member of Israel Hasbara Committee. Yellen maybe the first Jewish woman to head the criminal Federal Reserve – but she ill be the 11th Jew to head the Federal Reserve.

    http://rehmat1.com/2013/10/10/yellen-and-the-den-of-thieves/

  185. An attempt by Branson to justify his move to Necker Island in the Caribbean.

    Sir Richard Branson Defends Farewell To Britain
    One of Britain’s richest men is heading for the Caribbean, but he denies claims he is moving to avoid the taxman.
    http://news.sky.com/story/1153779/sir-richard-branson-defends-farewell-to-britain

    We can all go there to stay. $60,000 for 30 people per night!!! Sounds ideal for the royal hangers-on like the Middletons and their mates. I expect they would get a better rate.
    http://www.neckerisland.virgin.com/resources/pdfs/necker_island/how_to_book/exclusive_use/NeckerIslandinformationforguests2013-2014.pdf

    ~~~

    Here he criticizes Julian Assange’s actions by saying that he went too far. How dare he!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjZLNH1Ka64&feature=player_embedded

  186. Another whistleblower, Karen Hudes whom I like the sound of. She blew the whistle on a World Bank cover up of corruption in a deal in the Phillipines. She was reprimanded and fired

    http://kahudes.net/about-us/

    Here she is in a video.

    Time to Tell these Crooks they’re Fired – Karen Hudes
    28 August 2013 210 Comments

    Karen Hudes World Bank Whistleblower
    By Greg Hunter’s USAWatchdog.com

    World Bank attorney Karen Hudes says she is one of a group of global whistleblowers. Hudes contends, “We’re running out of time. It’s time to tell these thugs and crooks that they’re fired.” Hudes goes on to say, “We don’t have to wait for anybody to fire the Fed or Bank for International Settlements . . . some states have already started to recognize silver and gold, the precious metals, as currency . . . there are other alternatives like Bitcoin . . . We, the consumer, can choose which currency to use, and that’s what we’re going to do in very short order.” What’s really going on in Syria? Hudes, who was Senior Counsel and worked at the World Bank for 20 years, charges, “Qatar, who has all this natural gas, wanted to run a natural gas pipeline through Syria to reach the European market. Who’s supplying the European market with gas? Russia. . . . All this business about dead babies and sarin gas is just all to keep us confused.” Hudes says this is not a fight about money but survival of the planet. “We’re dealing with whether we can continue as humanity and have an earth or whether we blow ourselves up. . . . whether we love each other enough to save the world, or we all go to hell in a hand basket,” says Hudes. Join Greg Hunter as he goes One-on-One with World Bank whistleblower Karen Hudes.

    http://usawatchdog.com/time-to-tell-these-crooks-theyre-fired-karen-hudes/

  187. How history is writ:

    “Phillips was rescued by SEAL Team Six. He was hailed as an American hero. He met with President Obama in the Oval Office and wrote a memoir.”

    ““It is galling for [the crew] to see Captain Phillips set up as a hero,” Waters said. “It is just horrendous, and they’re angry.””

    “In the run-up to Friday’s release of “Captain Phillips,” Hanks has appeared on the cover of Parade magazine with Phillips and the headline “The Making of an American Hero.” The film won the opening-night slot at the New York Film Festival on Sept. 28 and opened the London Film Festival last Wednesday. It has won raves, all of which note the film is based on real events. The two men have walked the red carpet together.”

    http://nypost.com/2013/10/13/crew-members-deny-captain-phillips-heroism/

  188. “I also expressed my concerns that drone attacks are fuelling terrorism. Innocent victims are killed in these acts, and they lead to resentment among the Pakistani people.”

    But drone attacks, often using the ‘double tap’ technique to kill responders and those helping the victims of the first attack, are not ‘fuelling terrorism’ they are terrorism.

    The vast majority of those targetted are unarmed. They have also been used to target entire villages. Calling the internationally recognised legitimate right to resist armed attacks and occupation “terrorism” merely supports the US narrative.

    The Taliban/Pashtuns/Mujhahadeen may be intolerent religous nutcases or merely people fighting for their lands, just as they did under Soviet occupation when they were publicly honoured by President Reagan, but to suggest they are ‘terrorists’ is a nonsense.

    As harsh and hard as the Pashtun fighters are they are not in the business of killing civilians in order to further a political agenda like the US (or even shooting little girls in the head to stop them going to school), they are fighting a foriegn army that has attempted to take control of their land. Even Karzai and Hussain recognise this, which is why the US consistently scuppers any reproachment and talks that both have made, often by attacking such meetings between them and government officials with said drones.

  189. “As harsh and hard as the Pashtun fighters are they are not in the business of killing civilians in order to further a political agenda like the US …”

    Really Emmpey?! Then who is setting off those bombs every Friday in Pakistan in the local mosques, churches and markets, killing thousands?

    As for, ” Even Karzai and Hussain recognise this, which is why the US consistently scuppers any reproachment and talks that both have made, often by attacking such meetings between them and government officials with said drones.”

    Any sources for the alleged drone attacks at such ‘meetings’, please.

  190. Emmpey

    “But drone attacks, often using the ‘double tap’ technique to kill responders and those helping the victims of the first attack, are not ‘fuelling terrorism’ they are terrorism.”

    Spot on…

    According to UN special rapporteur on extrajudicial killings Christof Heyns, “secondary strikes on rescuers who are helping (the injured) after an initial drone attack, those further attacks are a war crime.” Clive Stafford-Smith, the lawyer who heads the Anglo-US legal charity Reprieve, believes that such strikes “are like attacking the Red Cross on the battlefield. It’s not legitimate to attack anyone who is not a combatant.”

    A study, from Columbia Law School’s Human Rights Institute. finds that the number of Pakistani civilians killed in drone strikes are “significantly and consistently underestimated” and that as many as 98% of those killed by drone strikes are civilians.

    http://web.law.columbia.edu/sites/default/files/microsites/human-rights-institute/COLUMBIACountingDronesFinalNotEmbargo.pdf

    Predator Drone ‘Double-Taps’ Highlight Possible War Crimes By Obama

    http://www.policymic.com/articles/21070/predator-drone-double-taps-highlight-possible-war-crimes-by-obama

    Now, Here’s a Great idea -

    China’s official news agency has called for the creation of a “de-Americanised world”, saying the destinies of people should not be left in the hands of a hypocritical nation with a dysfunctional government.

    Heaping criticism and caustic ridicule on Washington, the Xinhua news agency called the US a civilian slayer, prisoner torturer and meddler in others’ affairs, and said the ‘Pax Americana’ was a failure on all fronts.

    http://www.hangthebankers.com/china-calls-for-world-to-de-americanise/

  191. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    13 Oct, 2013 - 11:43 pm

  192. I thought Habbabkuk was asked to leave??

    I wish they/he/she had stayed away really.Nothing but disruption and stalking on Mary.Always thought it exremely sinister,as well as the other 7 hasbara tag team that infest us here.

  193. BrianFujisan

    14 Oct, 2013 - 2:16 am

    Nevermind, Mary,..

    VATERSAY Post Office… Just thought yous would smile at this ( my own Foto BTW )

  194. BrianFujisan

    14 Oct, 2013 - 2:21 am

  195. Reinforcing Andrew Parker’s message about ‘thousands of terrorists’ in this country?

    Four arrested in London terror raids
    Eyewitness: “It looked like there was a great deal of planning”
    Four men have been arrested in London in a counter-terrorism operation, the Metropolitan Police have said.

    Scotland Yard said they were held under the Terrorism Act 2000 on suspicion of the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism.

    Armed officers were involved in the arrests, which took place on Sunday at around 19:10 BST in the Whitechapel, Bayswater and Peckham areas.

    /..
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24515154

  196. Brian LOL What a sweet little hut. You mean it is still there and hasn’t been closed down?

    We shall see how TNT, DHL and the rest of the vultures deal with their promise to stick to universal delivery of the mail.

    ‘Universal Service Obligation

    Ofcom is the postal services regulator. It is responsible for safeguarding the one price goes anywhere, affordable postal service to all UK addresses.

    This includes ensuring that an efficient provider of the Universal Service can make a reasonable commercial rate of return on its Universal Service activities.

    Reforms introduced in 2011 and 2012 ensure that Royal Mail is the designated provider of the Universal Service until at least 2021 (10 years from the passing of the Postal Services Act 2011).’
    /..
    http://www.royalmailgroup.com/about-us/regulation/how-were-regulated/universal-service-obligation

    Eventually people living in Vatersay in Barra in the Outer Hebrides will probably have to collect their own mail from the mainland. I see a get out clause in the second sentence above and we know how efficient OFCOM are, for example in not dealing with nuisance telephone calls and the like.

    I am getting about six of them a day – solar panels, PPI, green energy, carpet cleaning etc and even had a silent one at 1pm yesterday! I am on the Telephone Preference Service. Useless.

    I see the ubiquitous Ms Colette Bowe is still i/c at OFCOM.
    http://www.ofcom.org.uk/about/how-ofcom-is-run/ofcom-board-2/members/colette-bowe-2/
    She is leaving next March.

    The usual:
    http://www.ofcom.org.uk/about/how-ofcom-is-run/ofcom-board-2/members/register-of-disclosable-interests/

    Look at McTighe there. 10 chairmanships/Directorships!! and Bowe and 7 others.

  197. A tale of IDF member Eden Abergil and her monstrous Facebook posts. Note Aluf Benn’s contribution. He is the editor in chief of Ha’aretz which outraged Gideon Levy one of Ha’aretz’s rational journalists. I heard him speak in London a few years ago.

    For Israeli soldiers, social media has become a showcase of horrors
    They have posted wildly offensive text and imagery online
    By Max Blumenthal
    Sunday, Oct 13, 2013
    http://www.salon.com/2013/10/13/for_israeli_soldiers_social_media_has_become_a_gallery_of_horrors/

  198. … whose comments outraged Gideon Levy…..

  199. Another little wheeze of Branson’s. Reading the reports yesterday, one was led to believe that he had sold up his Oxfordshire estate to live in the Caribbean. Yes he did sell it – to his children. Ownership was transferred to them some years back!!

    ‘Land registry filings show Branson’s Oxfordshire home was bought in August last year for £1.35m, a sum estimated below its market value, by his children Sam and Holly, although it is understood ownership was actually transferred to them four or five years ago.’

    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/oct/13/richard-branson-tax-exile-virgin

  200. Thanks for the picture Brian, I suppose when pensioon day comes a bunch of merry OAP’s will be queuing up at the ‘post box’.
    Goood point Mary, with privateers taking over the massive RM pension fund soon for ‘restructuring’, the postal deliveries to the Scottish islands might be scaled down to a weekly drop from a helicopter.

    Oh what a bristlin’ mornin here in Narfuk.

  201. “Really Emmpey?! Then who is setting off those bombs every Friday in Pakistan in the local mosques, churches and markets, killing thousands?”

    Gosh, really? Basra? SAS? Caught in the act. Iraq, stay behind US contractors, caught in the act. The same is true in Afghanistan and Pakistan. These are acts created to justify the on going fight against the ‘terrorism’ that they create. Even a fool can see that – but you are no fool.

    Whenever there is a military objective of the US the first thing that happens is ‘terrorists’ start blowing things up, thereby giving justification to US pre-planned action in the name of fighting the terrorists, it’s called a casus belli, and is required for the media narrative which provides the cover story for a war of agression and conquest.

    I suggest if your are genuinely interested then rather than asking to be spoon fed ‘sources’ you do some research of your own and start engaging logic, reason and historical precedents.

    There is absolutely no doubt that the US destroys any attempts made by the Afghan or Pakistani governments to talk to the Taleban, the direct attacks on such meetings are often reported as a ‘wedding’ or ‘family get together’ being mistakenly attacked and is again merely the cover provided by the corporate media.

    E.g. This appeared last week after one of those ‘Navy Seals’ (presumably not the same ones who killed a non existant Osama Bin Laden and then mysteriously all died in various helicopter crashes and parachute accidents) operations where they kidnapped this guy, who is no doubt now being tortured, and in the process a number of Afghan security forces were killed.

    “US forces detained Taliban commander Latif Mehsud, the US State Department said Friday, an announcement that has reportedly infuriated Afghan president Hamid Karzai, who hoped to use Mehsud as interlocutor for peace talks.”

    If you read this ‘story’ on different media outlets they all make glaring mistakes and contradict each other, i.e. they are making it up as they go along.

    The US justification for such an operation is the claim that he was involved in the NY times sq. bomb? You know that ‘terrorist car bomb’ where there was no bomb, but a smoking gas bottle was found on the back seat of a car. The only difference is that in Pakistan or Afghanistan they use real car bombs and not staged props.

    No, his real crime was that he was negotiating and not killing, if he had been blowing people up they would have been perfectly happy to have him hanging around – doing their job for them.

  202. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Times_Square_car_bombing_attempt

    That US ‘justification’ for taking out Latif Mehsud in full. Fire-crackers is what constitutes the “NY Times Square Car Bomb” which, according to the media, is an international terorist crime conducted by a vast network of highly trained cells operating with ruthless determination to attack the US and its freedoms.

  203. The gibbering of trolls is deafening today. Dreoilin – I blame you, for posting this:

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2013/10/arafat-poisoning-claim-backed-journal-2013101215735508974.html

    The British The Lancet journal has published a peer review of last year’s research by Swiss scientists on Arafat’s personal effects.

    It endorsed their work, which found high levels of the highly radioactive element in blood, urine, and saliva stains on the Palestinian leader’s clothes and toothbrush.

    Congratulations! Three consecutive posts by Anon and one from ResDiss followed, none of them relevant.

    But that’s off topic, like just about everything else here.

    Mary doesn’t seem to have noticed that our (UK) spooks tried to intimidate the New York Times into handing over Snowden material. However, freedom of speech is better defended in the US than here, and the editor said no.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/13/new-york-times-snowden-nsa-files

    Abramson said the spectacle of angle grinders and drills being used to destroy evidence in a newspaper basement was hard to conceive in the US, where the First Amendment offers free speech guarantees. “I can’t imagine that. The only equivalent I can think of is years ago when the New York Times was enjoined by a lower court from publishing the Pentagon papers, but the supreme court came in and overruled that decision. Prior restraint is pretty much unthinkable to me in this country.”

    That’s where we’ve got to. Stasi country. And all for you, USA.

  204. Breaking news

    Dozens of extremist Israeli settlers have stormed the al-Aqsa Mosque under army protection and raised Israel’s flag inside the mosque, which is the third holiest site in Islam.

    While;

    Israel freezes building materials to Gaza

    “Due to security reasons, (the army) decided to stop for now the transfer of building materials into Gaza,” Guy Inbar told AFP.

    Medieval system, medieval thinking, medieval methods; total siege continues.

  205. Habbabkuk, I’ve deleted a swathe of posts from you just now. Please stop commenting, at least until such time as you are invited back. The transparent strategy of getting involved in various discussions, and receiving premature welcomes from various posters, won’t work.

    I will persist in trying to email Craig re your ban.

  206. Komodo, why do you assume any of your ‘trolls’ supports Israel? Do you honestly believe that because Dreoilin posted the Lancet’s findings we all felt it necessary to descend on the blog and attempt to divert the thread? Do you think we are in secret communication with each other? I mean, how flipping paranoid are you? How is it that you have created in your addled mind this idea of paid ‘hasbara trolls’ and ‘disinfo agents’ being dispatched to the blog, the 2nd/3rd/4th etc pages of which probably only a very few people read anyway? Your mind is clouded with conspiracy theories, Komodo. You have reached the point where you can no longer hear a different viewpoint without imagining a Zionist plot.

    Habba, Res Diss, Villager, Kempe and myself have all condemned Israel’s frequent crimes against Palestinians, not that supporting or condemning anything here makes one iota of difference to the lives of Palestinians anyway. What I, and I suspect others, can’t understand is why your overriding obsession in life is with Israel and the Jews.

  207. A prime example of Komodo’s paranoia is that he actually believes English Knight/Hasbarista/Krishnamurky etc is some sort of agent assigned to bring the blog into disrepute by posting anti-Semitic comments. Komodo’s judgement has become so clouded that he cannot comprehend that an anti-Semite might, for whatever reason, be attracted to commenting here.

  208. Jon, do you believe that anyone really gives a sod about what Habbabkuk said to A Node all those weeks ago or are you just using the contrived outrage to silence one of the blog’s sharpest critics?

  209. Taking over AlAqsa mosque and turn it into a synagogue is the most devillish plan to take over another quarter of Jerusalem, whilst scorning the worlds Muslim community.

    Its the equivalent of occupying Westminster cathedral/Withorn priory and demanding it to be changed into a synagogue.

  210. And…

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2013/10/israel-freezes-shipments-gaza-over-tunnel-20131013212952228201.html

    Israel reinstated building material supplies a month ago. The IDF reports that the tunnel must have taken a year to build. Conclusion: blocking building supplies does not prevent Palestinians building tunnels. Israel has put back the blockade.

    Israeli NGO Gisha, which lobbies for freedom of movement for Palestinians, urged Israel to lift the building material freeze, saying it would affect civilians and humanitarian projects in blockaded Gaza.

    “It is not clear how blocking the entrance of construction materials, including those intended for international projects, promotes that goal.”

    Silly billy, Gisha. When the civilians get bombed, we holocaust victims want them to stay bombed. And swimming in sewage….

    2009: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8236733.stm
    2013: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO1309/S00337/looming-environmental-disaster-gaza-sewage-pumped-into-sea.htm

  211. Komodo, why do you assume any of your ‘trolls’ supports Israel? Do you honestly believe that because Dreoilin posted the Lancet’s findings we all felt it necessary to descend on the blog and attempt to divert the thread? (rant continues)

    There had to be some reason. You certainly give the strong impression of posting in concert. Maybe you want to swamp Mary – you’ve got your work cut out – or you just detest Craig. Whatever. Consider the thread diverted; well done you and your little bruderbond.(But do feel free to comment on the First Amendment right to free speech in the US versus the total impunity of the intelligence services here. I’m not stopping you.)

  212. Anon, I concur.

    Re Habby, I wouldn’t even say sharpest critics, lest it is misunderstood here by people, deliberately or not, although I fully realise you mean it in its most positive sense. I might even just say sharpest observers, if you see what i mean.

    Meanwhile, Jon the Liberal has made himself happy with the use of his petty power. And, Jon if anything, you should be seeking Craig’s reluctant approval before effecting a ban on anybody, rather than telling us that you’ve been persisting for weeks to get his input after banning anyone. You can’t have it both ways. It is your ban that is premature and ill thought through not the welcome back that Habby received.

    Quite sickening in the context of free speech, a valued principle of Craig’s.

  213. It is Jack Straw who will be getting into the limelight for the next few weeks, because he seems to have most to fear from the revellations of Ed Snowden, his misleading in the Belhadj case and over extraordinary renditions.

    The Guardian is taking flak and so seems Jill Abramson of the NYT. Whilst the Grauniad had to take drills and cutters to computers, Ms. Abramson showed our spooks the door.
    This from its live feed.

    ” And a Guardian leader column asks whether politicians can be trusted to supervise the security services.

    Do those who have oversight really understand today’s technologies? And are they themselves free of personal inclinations? The former home secretary Jack Straw has been critical of the Guardian’s reporting. But his own life and career raise their own questions. In his autobiography there is a revealing passage in which MI5 tells him in 1974 that he and his family have been under surveillance since Mr Straw was a teenager. They questioned him about his sexuality. They believed (probably falsely) that his sister was a communist. MI5 had notes of a pub conversation he had had with a “politically suspect” friend years earlier. Many people would find this deeply disturbing. Not Mr Straw, who was “neither surprised nor shocked”.

    Is it reassuring for the rest of us that Mr Straw went on to have responsibility for the work of our spy agencies as home and foreign secretary? Mr Straw accepted the unreliable intelligence assessments which led us into war in Iraq. He faces troubling questions (and civil proceedings) about rendition. He backed secret courts. He supported blocking the Serious Fraud Office inquiry into corruption at British Aerospace. Quis custodiet? The answer, for many people, wouldn’t be Jack Straw. Which is merely illustrative of a question which won’t go away.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/14/nsa-files-live-coverage-of-all-developments-and-reaction

    ‘You have shown your hands by attracting attention over this issue, once again, Jack. Time to get out of your box and come clean’

  214. Villager:

    Anon, I concur.

    Of course you do. It’s what you do. It’s all you do.

    Creep.

  215. Komodo, Mary gets ‘swamped’ because she is the most prolific poster of idiotic views here and either considers herself above, or is completely incapable of, defending herself when challenged. Hence her supporters step in, even though they know that most of what she posts doesn’t bear scrutiny.

    “or you just detest Craig.” Nonsense, Komodo. Though I don’t always agree with him I think Craig is a decent and principled man. His blog is ruined by Israel obsessives and anti-Semites who haven’t the balls to admit what they are.

  216. Straw’s sticky fingers all over this story (May)

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/may/22/uk-support-cia-rendition-flights

    Anyone heard how Abdul Hakim Belhaj vs Jack Straw MP is going? Or did a large sum of taxpayer’s money change hands?

  217. So while we are on the subject of censorship perhaps those who are always clamouring for the silencing of Habbakkuk might wish to expound on which of the following models for freedom of expression they most admire and would like to see replicated in the UK:

    Gaza under Hamas
    Syria under Assad
    Russia under Putin
    Soviet Union
    Iran
    China
    Libya under Ghadaffi
    Iraq under Saddam
    Afghanistan under the Taliban

    Because as far as I can see all of their efforts are aimed at denigrating the freedom of expression that they have here in the UK (and making use of it at the same time I should note) while we hear barely a criticism of what is happening in their pet regimes.

    [Posted as "We are all Habbabkuk", actually "anon"]

  218. Mary gets ‘swamped’ because she is the most prolific poster of idiotic views here and either considers herself above, or is completely incapable of, defending herself when challenged.

    Translation: (a)you don’t agree with her and you want to shut her up and (b) she’s easy to taunt. Do tell me more about the First Amendment.

    PS I think Mary’s a pain in the ass too. But she has a perfect right to be, as do you. As do I. That’s worth defending, no?

    Topic:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/13/snowden-leaked-secrets-guardian-trustworthy

  219. Sorry, Komodo, but no one said anything about wanting to shut Mary up, did they?

  220. Nice bunch of strawmen you have there, ‘We Are All Neocons’.

    But no cigar.

  221. They didn’t have to.

    Did they?

    Do you get a troll point for every off topic post anyone responds to?

  222. Why am I not allowed to change my name when I want to or is this only a privilege afforded to the sage of the Surrey Alps?

    If not could you please go back and post a similar correction on April Showers etc. posts – should keep you busy for a while!

  223. Perfectly valid point about the warped world-views on display here and Komodo responds with a childish and pathetic slur about Neocons. Worthy of an Alex Jones blog.

  224. On the subject of the poisoning of Arafat being poisoned – what does anyone make of Arafat’s widow’s view that it couldn’t have been the Israelis who committed the deed and the measures taken by the PLO leadership to avoid having an inquest. There are also others who point the finger of blame very clearly at Hamas who were the clear political beneficiaries of Arafat’s removal.

  225. Anyone got any further info on the supposed storming of the Al-Aqsa Mosque by Jewish settlers? Press TV does about one of these every week and their article is about two sentences long.

  226. “Do you get a troll point for every off topic post anyone responds to?”

    No just shekels – but beware we have counter agents who post material we can shoot down in flames who get paid even more (in your more paranoid moments you may wish to spot them)

  227. We pay Mary 50 ILS /hour

  228. Afternoon Anon,

    Trust you’re well. I’ve mentioned many a time here that undeclared name changes are generally seen as sock-puppetting. I won’t spend the time searching for my having said this, but it’s there aplenty if you want to try a search engine.

    Several posters have changed their handle, and where it is obvious they have done so, it is fine. I actually wouldn’t mind if you would change from “Anon”, since we have several of those. If you can choose something memorable and then change it only every few months, that’d be great.

    Addendum: I mentioned it before that Habbabkuk was banned for his final, quite dreadful, post, but it was in the context of months of needling and unpleasantness. I would have just let it slide if it was a single event. I’m sure I said this at the time, but quite willing to say it again.

  229. Why should fingers point to Hamas? Despite the fact that Hamas and Arafat did not see eye to eye, maybe something to do with Arafats amassmernt of monies in foreign funds, we have to look at the tim e line.

    The first time the openeing of Arafats grave and his exhumation was the news, Israel attacked the Gaza strip, postponing the operation.
    They then killed Ahmed Jabari, Hamas go between with Israel who was actively involved in peace negotiations.

    http://www.china.org.cn/opinion/2012-11/21/content_27183543.htm

    Unless you can show how Hamas got hold of Polonium, not easy to mix in your kitchen, it’s hard to see how your assumption can hold up.

    Israel on the other hand had some experience with polonium since 1957
    “According to the book The Bomb in the Basement, several death cases in Israel during 1957-1969 were caused by 210Po.[41] A leak was discovered at a Weizmann Institute laboratory in 1957. Traces of 210Po were found on the hands of Prof. Dror Sadeh, a physicist who researched radioactive materials. Medical tests indicated no harm, but the tests did not include bone marrow. Sadeh died from cancer. One of his students died of leukemia, and two colleagues died after a few years, both from cancer. The issue was investigated secretly, and there was never any formal admission that a connection between the leak and the deaths had existed.”

    http://www.bionity.com/en/encyclopedia/Polonium.html

  230. ‘This week, 7,000 people will arrive in the UK looking for a better future’ etc

    ‘Every day this week, we will examine a different aspect of the subject of immigration’.

    Who is this? Why Sky News of course. They had May on just now saying that immigration does have an effect on jobs, not one to one, but generally. They have invited viewers to send in short videos. You can guess what the tone of the majority of those will be.

  231. I knew your bite was poisonous Komodo, but not your tongue. Leave out your ad hominems. I ignore those from the trolls of course.

  232. Hi Mary.

    “Who is this? Why Sky News of course.”

    As the owner of Sky is an avowed globalist and proponent of mass-immigration, what is your point here?

  233. Mary,

    Immigration is an interesting conundrum, especially given the subconscious bias one would expect from May and Sky, which I think would be quite similar. On the one hand, their view is broadly pro-capitalist, dressed up in “pro-business” positivity. On the other, it is small-c conservative, being itself wary of foreigners and substantial social change, and therein lies its internal contradiction.

    If the Tories play the immigration card too aggressively, they may steal some ground lost to UKIP etc, but it could also annoy capital – at least if one subscribes to the view that immigration lowers wage costs generally. Thus, they have to choose between pleasing business and getting elected, despite the propaganda that says the success of big business is good for everyone. As it is, Labour are hugely ahead in the polls, and look set to form the next government, which would not require a coalition.

    I should say that I don’t talk about a possible Labour victory with any triumphalism – whilst I like Miliband’s recent direction, I’ve otherwise been unimpressed with his performance as leader of the opposition. He’s picked a fight with the trade unions, which despite their structural problems are still the best democratic connection that working people have to Parliament, and has been very poor on standing up for the right to organise generally. Perhaps I should give him time – aside from his position on capping energy profits, he was extremely brave to take on the hawks over Syria, and is undoing at least a little of the Iraq/Blair legacy.

  234. @Craig “..our next massive whistleblower is only weeks away.”

    I hope he doesn’t blow it :)

  235. Mary – did you mean ad feminam? However, you may distinguish me from the trolls by the fact that I don’t go on and on and on about it. Nor should you, IMHO.

    Ends.

  236. I should add that if Labour can go in a genuinely social-democratic direction, it should be broadly welcomed by everyone, on the basis that it expands the democratic space in Britain – which for a long time has been dragged to the centre right. And beyond, one might argue!

    Personally, whilst I don’t underestimate the propagandistic power of the corporate media, I think there’s plenty of un-mined space on the moderate left that the Labour party could re-occupy. They would be brave to do so, but it would reconnect them with their membership – numbers hugely down thanks to Brown and Blair – and I think done well it could show electoral gains despite the reactionary response we’d be likely too see from The Telegraph and Spectator magazine.

  237. Boris is winning the charm offensive in China

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/10377297/Boris-Johnson-out-charms-George-Osborne-in-China.html

    but not with members of the Fire Brigades Union in this country.

    Dear Friends,

    Thank you for signing the petition, “Save our Fire Stations”. The closures of Belsize, Bow, Clerkenwell, Downham, Kingsland, Knightsbridge, Silvertown, Southwark, Westminster and Woolwich Fire Stations will go ahead on 9 January 2014 unless we act.

    On 25 October the University of London Union (ULU) showed solidarity with the firefighters on their pensions and protested against the closure of the Fire Stations. You can watch the video here:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch? feature=player_embedded&v= WRVLrA2PGTA

    On 15 October 2013, ULU will be hosting a meeting at 6 pm in the ULU Building in Malet St to unite the individual campaigns against the fire station closures. Please let us know if you have been campaigning actively on behalf of one of these stations and would like to attend.

    Meantime, can you continue to spread the word by forwarding the link below to your family, friends and colleagues?

    http://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/save-our-firestations

    and not with this ULU student.

    http://london-student.net/comment/10/07/worried-london-fire-stations-closing-get-stuffed-says-boris-johnson/

  238. we have counter agents who post material we can shoot down in flames who get paid even more

    You mean Anon-in-shades? The disguise had me fooled, congratulations. Looking forward to Anon-in-a-moustache. But why? What matters so much? In the absence of any serious response, don’t blame me if I jump to conclusions.

    ‘We Are All Neocons’ may have been making a point. To which he might have added the joys of being a woman in Saudi Arabia, many living in post-invasion ‘democratic’ Iraq, Libya and Egypt, Syria following our encouragement of an unarmed revolution’s turning into a proxy war, or almost anyone in Uzbekistan. Oh, and apartheid Israel. All bloody rotten. Too many for one poor commentator to deal with (it really needs the multitasking talents of a Blair, doesn’t it?). So I’ll do my best with apartheid Israel, a handful of ‘stans and those in our government who advocate making things worse. For them, or us.

  239. Jon Thanks. I got the impression that the initiative for the Sky immigration offensive had come down the line to Sky from Downing Street in an attempt to steal UKIP’s thunder. I think they (the Cons) are in danger of overdoing it and their timing is wrong too.

  240. This is a new alert from the Medialens editors.

    Where Journalism Collides With State ‘Security’: BBC News, MI5 And The Mantra Of ‘Keeping People Safe’

    14 October 2013

    In our May 13 media alert we highlighted how the state, and a compliant media, relentlessly raise fears of the ‘shadows and threats’ that supposedly assail us. We make no apology for again citing the American writer H. L. Mencken:

    ‘The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.’

    In that alert, we pointed to an edition of BBC Newsnight that was devoted to UK ‘defence’ spending and policy. The BBC’s Gavin Esler introduced and presented the programme from the perspective of government; namely, that:

    ‘National security is the first duty of government. We will remain a first-rate military power.’

    Reflecting, and indeed boosting, state priorities is the default mode of BBC News. Last Tuesday, the flagship News at Ten on BBC1 demonstrated this perfectly when celebrity news presenter Fiona Bruce, who also has The Queen’s Palaces and The Antiques Roadshow on her CV, began with the ominous words:

    ‘A warning from MI5: Britain’s security is threatened on more fronts, in more ways than ever before.’

    /..
    http://ow.ly/pMNtY

  241. All day long Osborne and Cameron talked of relaxation for Chinese businesses, schmoozing China’s nuclear industry with lucrative work here, i.e. you bring your cheap labour and build us some cheap and cheerfull PWR’s.

    What he’s not talking off is whether these Chinese workers would be allowed to immigrate here, whether Chinese companies will pay taxes here, whether they are supposed to adher to a fair regulatory regime regarding wage, H&S,etc.

    or will these Chinese companies operate in a bubble, such as those who work in various African countries. They live in their own quarters and are not allowed to mix.

    This journey is to be seen in the shadow of worsening relations with the US and their crippled system. 14 days without redress, Obama seems like a rabbit in the headlights, with Congress seemingly favouring to wreck their federal system of Governance.

    So lets hear more about Chinese immigration and mass tourism, what they propose when Chen Wang ( made up) visits his imaginary relatives at some Chinese restaurant in Wales/Scotland/England/Ireland, overstays and then…..gets his residency because he works for a pitance/ zero hour contract at a local library/has married a local.

    And then lets hear it for internatinal workers and making it easier for all of us. China is known for its red tape, and corruption,(no different to us) when it comes to letting business into the country. Unless you have a Chinese director of operations you have problems with producing there.

    So lets endure a weeks worth of China news and see whether the US goes bust in the meantime.

  242. anon 14 Oct, 2013 – 1:15 pm

    “So while we are on the subject of censorship perhaps those who are always clamouring for the silencing of Habbakkuk might wish to expound on which of the following models for freedom of expression they most admire and would like to see replicated in the UK:

    Gaza under Hamas
    Syria under Assad
    Russia under Putin
    Soviet Union
    Iran
    China
    Libya under Ghadaffi
    Iraq under Saddam
    Afghanistan under the Taliban”

    I’ll take ‘Libya under Ghadaffi’, please.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJURNC0e6Ek

  243. Please don’t talk down to me Komodo. You sound sexist too. ;)

  244. BrianFujisan

    14 Oct, 2013 - 3:32 pm

    Mary,

    i think the wee teeny Vatersay Post Office is safe for now, i hear they are closing 9 or 10 branches on the isle of Lewis though, and a few on the Uists, you may be right though that sometime soon enough – the islanders will have to go to Oban for their mail, or as Nevermind sugests a Helicopter drop off Lol

    we went to the old dear post master, and her hubby’s “wee do” for they’re 50th wedding anniversary, the “Do” started at 4;30 p.m. and was still going at 10;30 am it was the Barrafest weekend so lots of bands kicking around, including their son’s Vatersay Boy band, it so Amazing how the Vatersay Boys Fill Glasgow Barrowlands to bursting point every xmas, tickets are gold dust Lol

    REDIRECT To -

    These Lying Bastards -

    “The rates for spontaneous abortion, stillbirths and congenital birth defects found in the study are consistent with or even lower than international estimates. The study provides no clear evidence to suggest an unusually high rate of congenital birth defects in Iraq.”

    Jaffar Hussain, WHO’s Head of Mission in Iraq, said that the report is based on survey techniques that are “renowned worldwide” and that the study was peer reviewed “extensively” by international experts.

    Filthy Lying Scumbags

    Backtrack

    But the conclusions contrasted dramatically from previous statements about the research findings from Iraqi Ministry of Health (MOH) officials involved in the study. Earlier this year, BBC News spoke to MOH researchers who confirmed the joint report would furnish “damning evidence” that rates of birth defects are higher in areas experiencing heavy fighting in the 2003 war. In an early press release, WHO similarly acknowledged “existing MOH statistics showing high number of CBD cases” in the “high risk” areas selected for study.

    The publication of this ‘summary document’ on the World Health Organisation’s website has raised questions from independent experts and former United Nations and WHO officials, who question the validity of its findings and its anonymous authorship. They highlight the existence of abundant research demonstrating not only significant rates of congenital birth defects in many areas of Iraq, but also a plausible link to the impact of depleted uranium.

    For years, medical doctors in Iraq have reported “a high level of birth defects.” Other peer-reviewed studies have documented a dramatic increase in infant mortality, cancer and leukaemia in the aftermath of US military bombardment. In Fallujah, doctors are witnessing a “massive unprecedented number” of heart defects, and an increase in the number of nervous system defects. Analysis of pre-2003 data compared to now showed that “the rate of congenital heart defects was 95 per 1,000 births – 13 times the rate found in Europe.”

    Politicised science

    Dr. Keith Bavistock of the Department of Environmental Science, University of Eastern Finland, is a retired 13-year WHO expert on radiation and health. He told me that the new ‘summary document’ was at best “disappointing.” He condemned the decision from “the very outset to preclude the possibility of looking at the extent to which the increase of birth defects is linked to the use of depleted uranium”, and further slammed the document’s lack of scientific credibility.

    “This document is not of scientific quality. It wouldn’t pass peer review in one of the worst journals. One of the biggest methodological problems, among many, is that the document does not even attempt to look at existing medical records in Iraqi hospitals – these are proper clinical records which document the diagnoses of the relevant cases being actually discovered by Iraqi doctors. These medics collecting clinical records are reporting higher birth defects than the study acknowledges. Instead, the document focuses on interviews with mothers as a basis for diagnosis, many of whom are traumatised in this environment, their memories unreliable, and are not qualified to make diagnosis.”

    I asked Dr. Baverstock if, given the document’s avoidance of analysing the key evidence – clinical records compiled by Iraqi medics – there was reason to believe the research findings were compromised under political pressure. He said:

    “The way this document has been produced is extremely suspicious. There are question marks about the role of the US and UK, who have a conflict of interest in this sort of study due to compensation issues that might arise from findings determining a link between higher birth defects and DU. I can say that the US and UK have been very reluctant to disclose the locations of DU deployment, which might throw further light on this correlation.”

    If so, it would not be the first time the WHO had reportedly quashed research on DU potentially embarrassing for the Allies. In 2001, Baverstock was on the editorial board for a WHO research project clearing the US and UK of responsibility for environmental health hazards involved in DU deployment. His detailed editorial recommendations accounting for new research proving uranium’s nature as as a genotoxin (capable of changing DNA) were ignored and overruled:

    “My editorial changes were suppressed, even though some of the research was from Department of Defense studies looking at subjects who had ingested DU from friendly fire, clearly proving that DU was genutoxic.”

    Baverstock then co-authored his own scientific paper on the subject arguing for plausibility of the link between DU and high rates of birth defects in Iraq, but said that WHO blocked publication of the study “because they didn’t like its conclusions.”

    “The extent to which scientific principles are being bent to fit politically convenient conclusions is alarming”, said Baverstock.

    How the World Health Organisation covered up Iraq’s nuclear nightmare

    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2013/oct/13/world-health-organisation-iraq-war-depleted-uranium

  245. Nobody likes me
    Everybody hates me
    Just cos I eat worms…

    Assad’s Syria wasn’t all that bad, either. I remember a R4 programme getting quite lyrical about Damascus cafe society a few years back. Sure, it was a surveillance state, but hey, look at ours….and Assad could be relied on to process* terrorists arriving on Gulfstreams from the US and elsewhere…a doughty fighter in the war on tourism, indeed.

    * don’t mention electrodes.

  246. “models for freedom of expression they most admire”

    None, zilch, zero, not any of these ‘models’ emerged post WWII bull-dozing fear and terrorism while trying to build a global empire by imposing a postwar world order, and supporting regime-change in nations that it deems BY NO MEANS UK-friendly.

    The U.K. ‘establishment’ has gone to all lengths to appear before the world as the one that claims the moral high ground, yet covertly doing things that are as audacious as rendition, torturing prisoners of war, slaying civilians in RAF strike drone attacks, spying on UN and world leaders and fighting unwarranted wars under the cover of outright lies.

    In what I call ‘Pax-Britannia,’ we fail to see a world where the so called FREE United Kingdom royal dynasty is helping to defuse violence and conflicts, reduce poor and displaced population, and bring about real, lasting peace.

    As a result, the world is still crawling its way out of an economic disaster thanks to the voracious City of London elites, while bombings and killings have become virtually daily routines in Iraq, Libya and soon Syria, years after ‘Pray to God’ Blair, Goldsmith, Hoon, Reid and others claimed it has liberated its people from tyrannical rule.

    WE WILL REMEMBER this muff and the British people’s intention to seek redress will triumph.

  247. BrianFujisan

    14 Oct, 2013 - 3:56 pm

    A. Node

    Well said..I’m there with you on that, i put that Video up a few weeks ago Too

    Here’s some more for you to sift through.

    Facts about Libya and Qaddafi

    http://vimeo.com/album/1806059/video/41777361

    “The war crimes of the US, Israel and NATO in Libya are staggering and thus far have been carried out with impunity. But if this weary old planet survives their economic and environmental crimes, history will judge them, their decision-makers and the corporate cabal that funds their wars … and without mercy”.

    - Les Blough, ( Axis Of Logic )

    http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_64418.shtml

  248. And this:

    Miss Rowe went on: “I repeatedly asked why they’d felt the need to raid the house and why they hadn’t used sniffer-dogs if they suspected drugs to be in the house.

    “All they’d say is they had a tip-off from a member of the public and they couldn’t use a dog due to Government cutbacks.

    Must have missed that in the Budget speech…..

    Risible.

  249. @A Node & BrianFujisan

    Re: Libya

    You may have missed this link, put up by Dreoilin a few threads back:

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article36429.htm

    And the video linked in the article -

    Lies Behind Lies Behind the “Humanitarian War” in Libya:

    “Soliman Bouchuiguir, former president of the Libyan League for Human Rights with symbiotic ties to the National Transitional Council, generated the pack of lies that justified NATO’s war allegedly to protect the Libyan population. He is currently the new Libyan ambassador to Switzerland.”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gJz45K4Q50

  250. EXCELLENT link Brian:

    In 2010, BAE Systems, Barclays Capital and BP financed a Chatham House project called RETHINKING the UK’s NATIONAL AMBITIONS and CHOICES. The authors of one of the key reports, which laid the basis for the National Security Strategy and Strategic Defence and Security Review, explained that “voters [in the UK] will not actively call for a more effective foreign policy.” Therefore, “The government should define its international mission as managing risks on behalf of British citizens”, rather than on behalf of the sponsors of UK foreign policy.

    http://vimeo.com/album/1806059/video/41777361

  251. No one seems to have noticed that the ‘terror tunnel’ uncovered by Israel is not only very well made compared to the Palestinian tunnels uncovered in Egypt, completely concrete and with properly installed services running it’s entire length, but would also be very handy for a group of agent provocateurs to nip into Gaza and fire a few harmless bottle rockets before nipping back to Israel before the inevtiable military response.

    Every single news report says that this is a tunnel runing from Gaza to Israel, it could just as easily be said that it’s a tunnel running from Israel to Gaza, but every media outlet seems to beleive the IDF statements without question. Once upon a time they would have at least attempted to contact the ‘other side’ for a statement. No doubt a Hamas spokesperson will be quoted dismissing Israels claim in a few days, once the idea it’s a ‘terror tunnel’ has been firmly established in peoples minds.

    Hamas are not shy to admit when they fire rockets, but have also repeatedly stated that many such attacks are the work of Israeli infiltrators to justify military attacks. If this was intended for Palestinians to kidnap Israelis as claimed (yawn) then why make it out of materials that are in desperate short supply when their usual method would have been just as effective, and quicker to build? Also, why hadn’t they used it already? What are they waiting for, peace to break out?

    Even the notion that the Palestinians built this without Israel being aware is frankly laughable. The Gaza border is the most militarised and monitored in the world, even compared to the Korean North/South border, and they monitor seismic activity for just such tunnels, which they expect to be dug out by hand and made out of bit’s of scrap wood and lit by candles. One containing thousands of tons of concrete, much of it in prefabricated sections should have been detected before it got even close to the border. Honestly, you have to be a retard to beleive any of this is remotely possible.

    The Palestinians have probably sussed out what was going on and blocked it at their end. Hence the Israelis can not use it anymore for it’s intended purpopse so they just cash in on a cheap bit of publicity, call it a terror tunnel, and will probably use that as justification for yet another assault on the people of Gaza. All Israel is interested in is making their intransigence at the peace talks, which has been widely reported, justified by cheap stories like this. At least it could be a sign of their desperation, and desperate people are apt to make basic mistakes.

  252. Have they gone?

  253. @ Rouge,

    Q: An inquiry carried out in the UK reveals that the middle class is on the way down:

    R: The middle class is dead. The smell of its demise is pungent and instantly recognizable. The US’ is a ff-ing zombie on its way to the late night graveyard shift. Too bad she will not come back to live another day.

    Golly, what are ‘m IDFers gonna do next to refill/restock their war chests? Court China?

    Bohica!

  254. @Brian and Rouge (and Anon if you really care about the answer to your question):

    Even more ironic (in an absolutely not-funny sort of way), the UN was about to present an award to Gaddafi for his Human Rights record when the Western invasion kicked off. It was hurriedly hushed up.

    http://libyanfreepress.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/report_working_group_universal_periodic_review.pdf

  255. Daniel Rich
    14 Oct, 2013 – 4:47 pm

    Funny you should say ‘Bohica’. Our chancellor, with a connection to the dominatrix linked to by Komodo above, is now in China looking to attract rich Chinese visitors and bend the immigration laws just for them.

  256. “Dreoilin – I blame you”

    Do ye now. Well you can blame me for this too – made me smile this morning.

    “Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu follows – and quickly unfollows – Iranian ‘hot sex books’ Twitter feed”

    Iranian public relishes opportunity to poke fun at Bibi after he last week slammed the ‘fact’ that they are not allowed to wear jeans

    “This is the second time in a week that Iranians have taken the opportunity to mock Mr Netanyahu on social media. After the Israeli leader said in an interview on BBC Persian TV that people in Iran won’t be free until they are allowed to wear jeans, thousands posted pictures of themselves wearing them, and others posed in Iranian shops with wall-to-wall denim.”

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israeli-pm-benjamin-netanyahu-follows–and-quickly-unfollows–iranian-hot-sex-books-twitter-feed-8878639.html

    I don’t like Benjamin Netanyahu. Apart from the fact that he’s a blood-thirsty racist warmonger, he tells lies. Blatant lies. And about a lot more than jeans.

  257. Does Craig ever read the comments on his blog, and realise it is being trashed?

  258. AWE atomic weapons site leaks tritium gas into stream
    Levels of tritium did not pose an environmental hazard, the Environment Agency said

    Related Stories
    Alert over nuclear plant groundwater
    Atomic weapons site fire charges

    The Atomic Weapons Establishment (AWE) has been criticised for leaking radioactive gas into a stream.

    There was an increase in levels of tritium in Aldermaston Stream after AWE turned off a ventilation fan in a radioactive waste storage unit.

    /..
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-24518372

    The normal procedure is to allow tritium gas to disperse into the atmosphere. Is this a safe practice?

    ‘The Atomic Weapons Establishment (AWE) is responsible for the design, manufacture and support of warheads for the United Kingdom’s nuclear deterrent. AWE plc is responsible for the day-to-day operations of AWE. AWE plc is owned by a consortium of Jacobs Engineering Group, Lockheed Martin UK, and Serco through AWE Management Ltd who hold a 25‑year contract (until March 2025) to operate AWE.’

  259. Not the Palestinians alone. The Bedouins too when you read on to the later section.

    The Desert of Israeli Democracy
    by Max Blumenthal and Tom Engelhardt, October 14, 2013

    In case you hadn’t noticed, Israel has been in the news a lot lately. After all, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu arrived at the U.N. in the midst of an Iranian “charm offensive,” just as presidents Obama and Rouhani were having the first conversation between Iranian and American heads of state since Jimmy Carter’s day, and gave the usual hellfire sermon. He said Israel would, if necessary, “stand alone,” implicitly threatening to launch an attack on Iranian nuclear facilities without Washington’s support (an act that is, in reality, increasingly unlikely), and generally acted like the odd man out. Soon after, he made a comment reflecting his ignorance of life among the Iranian young – “If the people of Iran were free, they could wear jeans, listen to Western music, and have free elections ” – and the next thing you knew, indignant Iranian tweets were going up along with photos of jeans and Western music albums. And so another round of news stories hit the wires.

    /..
    http://original.antiwar.com/engelhardt/2013/10/13/the-desert-of-israeli-democracy/

  260. Komodo 14 Oct, 2013 – 9:01 am

    “Obviously, the objectives were (1) to make sure of a healthy profit for the institutional investors whose friends Osborne would like to be and (2) to let The Markets (ie hedge funds) further into the public service sector. It was very little to do with balancing the government’s books, much more to do with ideology. Otherwise, the share price could have been double what was floated, and the pigs would still have been jostling to get at the trough.”

    …. (3) ensure that only those selected institutional investors who have agreed to sell on their shares to T.N.T at a pre-agreed profit within a pre-agreed time scale are allowed to get their snouts in the trough.

  261. well spotted emMPy, I looked at it and wondered why it was so well made, but my bells didn’t ring loud enough, off course, there’s no comparrisson to the tunnels that were/are again vital lifelines to Egypt.

    Indeed Rouge, our alledged coke nosed emperor, wants to silence Ms Romwe. I mean how could they skimp on the dogs when searching? Was it a dare and scare her mission?

    Finally an autobiography to look forward to. And what about poor Dr. Kelly who was denied writing his memoirs? Is that why the boss keeps Gideon on?

  262. Forgive my typos Ms Rowe, I have been a naughty boy….

  263. A Node
    14 Oct, 2013 – 4:57 pm

    “Even more ironic (in an absolutely not-funny sort of way), the UN was about to present an award to Gaddafi for his Human Rights record when the Western invasion kicked off. It was hurriedly hushed up.”

    http://libyanfreepress.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/report_working_group_universal_periodic_review.pdfII.

    Some gems of irony amongst the recommendations in this report, include:

    “93.3. Adopt domestic legislation to absolutely abolish practices of torture on its territory (United States);”

    “96.8. Review the assessment regarding the absence of any racial discrimination within the country, as recommended by the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, and adopt legislation that prohibits racial discrimination, especially against Black Africans, as well as guarantee that migrant workers are treated on a non-discriminatory basis, as recommended by the Committee on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (Israel);”

  264. I think a forum attached to this blog might be a good idea. Craig’s posts and relevant comments would stay here where thy have always been and off topic discussions could run in the forums. On topic but longer running discussions could also be in the forum.

    Of course it would be an added task for a moderator though to look after the forum as well. So maybe it is ruled out for that reason alone. I think it would improve the readability of the main blog comment stream if posters could just be asked politely to take certain threads to the forum. If asking politely doesn’t work then the offending comments could just be forcibly moved to the forum or just deleted.

  265. “I think a forum attached to this blog might be a good idea.”

    Sure it would, but,

    Would Craig agree to it?

    Who would run it? Jon has his hands full here already.

  266. Wow this is a productive thread, thanks peeps.

    Emmpey a sharp observation there, the usual Heath Robinson tunnels of the Palestinians, who cannot find cement to build their bombed out infrastructure and sewerage, because they have been using it to line their tunnel to zionistan. Although Palestinians cannot afford the price of the copper wire and have to cope with power outs, but they make sure their tunnel to zionistan is wired and air-conditioned too!

    This reminds of Don Rumsfeld graphics of the Osama HQ in the Tora Bora mountains in Afghanistan equipped with telephone exchange and computer servers, fucking class!

    A Node your proposition explains the dog and pony show just before the “floatation”, and the aftermath with people not getting their shares, because they had applied for more than £10,000 how very fucking capitalistic of the protectors of the free markets? This is a nice arrangement, socialism for the rich, fucking fascism for the sick and capitalism for the poor. It is fucking great to be the king.

    Brain doctors in Fallujah are discouraging the local women from falling pregnant. The contamination of the area with the use of fire and kill for the next hundreds of years weapons systems has reduced the area into a cesspit of dioxins that will be contaminating the area for the next fucking two hundred and fifty thousand years.

  267. “Jon has his hands full here already.”

    I question that. Jon has been away a few days and everything was smooth — he wasn’t missed. He comes back, interjects his power and self-importance and makes things divisive.

    For months when Habbabkuk first appeared, Jon was nowhere to be seen — hibernating in the depth of winter. Water then finds its own level, Mary then returns as April Showers and there is no stalking. Only ‘normal’ challenges and thought-provocation which hopefully grown-up people can sort out, or eventually overlook. Though foul language seems to be not only acceptable, but almost welcomed here

    Btw, not that Jon himself is some angel as he gloats about a ‘tricycling triumvirate’, thereby further contributing to the divisiveness. There was one whole day of one-hand clapping and head-nodding after Habby was ‘banned’ and Jon comes back with “’twas a nice day”.

    If Jon wants ‘nice days’ and ‘pleasantness’ he should go take a walk in the meadows. I don’t overestimate his need or ‘importance’ here. His sense of self-importance though is inflated from reality. Perhaps, fed by the chief whingers here e.g. Mary and Jives who were the two notable examples when Habby reappeared here again recently. For most people, we accepted it and got on with the discussion.

    And talking about forums and being on topic, why does Mary have a special licence to thrust her version of the the Metro or the Evening Standard upon us morning and night, without objection.

  268. “For example, all of the Royal Mail’s real estate is being transferred to the new private owners for less than the value of the Royal Mail’s London real estate alone. Neil Clark reports that one Royal Mail London depot is worth about one billion British pounds; but the entire real estate assets of the Royal Mail–public property–is being transferred to the new private owners for about three-quarters of one billion British pounds. The deal was so loaded in favor of the private purchasers that the share price rose almost 40 percent on the first day of trading. (This might have been some sort of nominal trading as the deal possibly has not been finalized.)”

    http://paulcraigroberts.org/2013/10/14/whatever-became-western-civilization-paul-craig-roberts/

  269. Villager,

    Do you ever stop whining?

    If youre so unhappy with this blog why not just leave?

  270. Lowest form of argument, Jives. I name you as a whinged and you accuse me of whining. [If you can't come up with your own original thoughts, that makes you a second-hand human being, which you are]. As for your latter question why do you think i owe you an answer, whether or not you’re a twerp?

  271. whinged=whinger

  272. “If youre so unhappy with this blog why not just leave?”

    If you’re so unhappy with this world, why not just leave?

  273. The usual obsessive whining stuff from Villager.

    ‘Perhaps, fed by the chief whingers here e.g. Mary and Jives who were the two notable examples when Habby reappeared here again recently. For most people, we accepted it and got on with the discussion.’

    I think I have asked once, or even twice, if Habbakuk had been banned.

    I can’t remember when I last quoted from the Metro and only very occasionally from the ES. Wild exaggeration as usual.

    PS Using the name ‘Habby’ makes the troll in question sound so friendly and just as nice as the bloke next door.

    ~~~

    The massive outpouring of details of the Met investigation of the Madeleine McCann case, including the new e-fits, has dominated the media today and is currently taking place on Crimewatch. There are many detectives employed.

    I have been revisiting the four posts that Craig made about the disappearance and the comments thereon. The general consensus was sorrow for the abducted child but little sympathy for the parents who left their tiny children unattended.
    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/?s=+mccann

    It is hard to find out about the logistics of Operation Grange, as the reply to this FoI request indicates.
    http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t7493-met-police-it-would-take-up-too-much-time-to-find-out-how-many-operation-grange-staff-have-had-trips-abroad-on-operation-grange-work-and-for-how-long-they-were-away

    In 2012, a number of 30 detectives on the case was reported.

  274. Yes mary, i was expecting you to come and complete your Evening Hat-trick. Quite a funky, edgy name for your news service as useless as it is. So sorry we interrupted it, but that means you get a second bite at the apple and produce another one. Just look at your standard morning troika contributions — how boring and predictable you are. And aren’t you being just a little bit thick to interpret that i suggested you were quoting from the Metro or the ES. Still its late in the evening so you may be forgiven.

    As for the whining bit, ditto what i said to Jives. But you’re an even more shining example of a second-hand human being constantly quoting, quoting, quoting, quoting — ne’er an original thought. Whoever are you friendly withor nice to here anyway, you lonely biddy?

  275. Timeline:Great Britain October 13 2013.

    Absolutely chilling to see what happened on a West London street last night.

    ‘ITV News has obtained CCTV footage of one of the four anti-terror arrests in London last night.

    The video shows the 28-year-old suspect leaving a Persian restaurant in Westbourne Grove before he and another man are wrestled to the ground by a group of officers.

    It is not clear whether the minibus which pulls up to the suspect is a police vehicle. Unmarked police cars attend the scene once the men are apprehended.

    The British national, believed to be of Azerbaijani origin, was arrested on suspicion of the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism.’

    http://www.itv.com/news/update/2013-10-14/cctv-footage-shows-west-london-anti-terror-arrest/

  276. Perhaps, being a rounded person in her own right, she doesn’t feel the need to be ‘friendly’ to characters typed down a keyboard. Perhaps she has real friends, you know, tangible ones. Shame, I like the hurly burly of the interactive comments pages myself, but it’s a distinct possibility.

    Someone: thanks for link. It’s rather, one gets the slight suspicion, a robbery. Apparently Goldman Sachs made $33.5 million advising Cameron on the deal but would have to check that. It would be of course surprising.

  277. @10.10pm Mr Nasty personified. His contribution to this blog> Absolutely nil.

    ‘Biddy’ was one of the epithets that his hero ‘Habby’ used. Perhaps he is ‘Habby’. :)

  278. “Absolutely chilling to see what happened on a West London street last night.”

    Jolly good, they’re keeping London safe, wouldn’t you think?

  279. “‘Biddy’ was one of the epithets that his hero ‘Habby’ used. Perhaps he is ‘Habby’”

    Sure we’re all Habbabkuk, but he did preface it with Good and you threatened to call him an Old Cock :-) Get the whole thing right.

    As for your suggestion about my ‘contributions’, more of the lowest form of argument — throwing back at me what i said. For God’s sake can’y you be original — please just for once. If not, just go back to your tea-towel hawking.

  280. Oh, OK so not friendly, but not above not being friendly. Backing away….

  281. TC: “Perhaps, being a rounded person in her own right, she doesn’t feel the need to be ‘friendly’ to characters typed down a keyboard.”

    Do you make ‘friends’ because you need them? Very revealing and interesting!

  282. Actually, I pay them.

  283. Oh that explains why you don’t get along with Fedup. Btw, he’s open to ‘transactions’.

  284. “Leave out your ad hominems. I ignore those from the trolls of course.” — Mary at 2.16pm

    No you don’t, Mary, as you’ve just shown. Kindly drop the sanctimonious attitude. It does get old.

    ———————————–

    “If you’re so unhappy with this world, why not just leave?”

    I don’t know where you are, Villager, but that’s a retort I associate with American blogs in particular. I have often seen people on them told, “Why don’t you just go and kill yourself?”, and I despise those who say it. Since we know nothing about the level of contentment of people posting here, it’s a horrible and dangerous suggestion.

  285. Dreo, point taken and i don’t visit American blogs. Mine was a rhetorical comment in strong contrast with your example. Anyway what business is it of mine to ask someone why they don’t leave or vice-versa — i was am just highlighting the base stupidity of such a question. Maybe health and safety wise its just better to tell ‘em to bugger off? Since, its not their ‘home’.

  286. Superb activism from SCM (and on topic too!)

    http://www.liveleak.com/c/SurveillanceCameraMan

  287. “Maybe health and safety wise its just better to tell ‘em to bugger off? Since, its not their ‘home’.”

    Yes, I do think “bugger off” would be better.
    As for it not being their “home” I think you may need to make some small allowance for people who have been here long-term. “Old regulars” I call them. And it’s probably unavoidable if they (we!) feel somewhat ‘invaded’.

    Having said that, I have argued in the past for “dissidents” to be allowed to stay and speak their minds. I think it makes for a more interesting place. And that remains my position.

  288. I phoned the local builder and said I wanted a skip outside my house. He said: “Well, I’m not stopping you”.

  289. ps Dreoilin, yes to the above :)

  290. resident dissident

    14 Oct, 2013 - 11:02 pm

    Might suggest that all those who wish to make statements and comments which they do not want to be challenged and questioned upon (or not at least in a manner with which they may disagree) go and set up their own blogs where they can censor and ban responses to their own observations to their own desire (they can even leave a link as they leave) – but just don’t claim to be committed to free speech as this blog claims to be. In the meantime please stop reverting to type and calling for the censors to be brought in here. There have to be some limits e.g racism, threatening behaviour, obscene language – but most of the calls for censorship relate to political views and nothing else.

    As for the comedians who think Libya undr Ghadaffi represent good models for freedom of expression might I suggest that they spend a bit of time looking at the Reporters without Borders and the Index on Censorship websites – though I daresay the ignorant and the stupid will just claim that they are US dupes or similar and can therefore be excluded from the closed loops in which they live.

    On Libya this is of relevance

    http://www.indexoncensorship.org/2013/04/freedom-of-speech-in-libya/

    And on international comparisons of press freedom the following is worth noting

    http://en.rsf.org/press-freedom-index-2013,1054.html

    How is your favourite doing! Clue many here will need to scroll towards the bottom of the page.

  291. I phoned the local builder and said I wanted a skip outside my house. He said: “Well, I’m not stopping you”.

    LOL @ Tech

    He was probably Irish :)

  292. Laurel says, “Hardy, I’m thinking of buying a Labrador.”
    “Don’t do that” says Laurel, “have you seen how many of their owners go blind?”

    G’night all

  293. Resident Dissident: are you suggesting that the situation has improved since Blair promoted Gaddafi? The piece you link to says:

    “In the post-uprising reality, newspapers and television channels that dared investigate claims of corruption and human rights violations, committed mostly by rogue militant and fundamentalist armed groups, face violent attacks; television channels have been vandalised, journalists kidnapped and tortured, or forced into silence or exile, and in some cases imprisoned and prosecuted under Gaddafi-era laws, as in the case of Amara al-Khatabi, who is accused of defaming Libyan judiciary after his newspaper published a list of judges it said were involved in corruption.”

    So really, all we are saying, by saying that living in the UK is preferable to living in the other examples you cite, is that we are failing to reap the consequences of our elected representatives’ actions, isn’t it? *We* are not being shot, so it should fail to matter that others are?

  294. Dreo, i have never felt that old-regular rank being pulled on me by you or observed that attitude coming from you toward anyone else. With all humility, i won’t take it simply because my brain wiring won’t permit it and i try to live true to myself.

    Re: “Having said that, I have argued in the past for “dissidents” to be allowed to stay and speak their minds. I think it makes for a more interesting place. And that remains my position.”

    Thanks for speaking out, and i shall assume that encompasses Habby. I was rather shocked how many of the liberals and lefties hungry for power here would sacrifice freedom of speech and abandon the principle in their zealotry. Not a single one — wrong, only Daniel Rich — spoke out against Habby’s ban other than Anon, RD and myself.

    Have a pleasant evening and if you come up to London i’ll take you to the best coffee place there is and it’d make for a truly stimulating chat. Eggs benedict or Spaghetti al arragosta thrown in.

  295. The doorbell rings and Groucho asks “Who is it?”

    Zeppo calls out “Its the garbage man.”

    Groucho says “Tell him we don’t any today!”

    Mary, please take note.

  296. Mary to me : “Perhaps he is ‘Habby’. :-)

    Yes, Mary, I am Habby. So, perhaps, with your permission i shall have the last laugh? :-) x 2

  297. @ Rouge,

    “Well, sir…, did you… or didn’t you… rape that woman?”

    “You mean that ‘comfort woman?’”

    “Yes.”

    “No.”

    It’s all in the eye of the beholder, but behold you when that entity veers off the beaten path and beats up the truth and history and passes laws to guard the unlawful.

    History is but a faint memory, yet its shadows cast an array of tomorrow’s footsteps for those who’re unsure where to tread next or lightly.

  298. Me: “Not a single one — wrong, only Daniel Rich — spoke out against Habby’s ban other than Anon, RD and myself.”

    Please add Evgueni…

  299. Good night, Dreoilin, will steal, thanks. Interested in a reply from Resident Dissident, didn’t understand your joke, sorry, Villager; Daniel, came across this recently:

    The Japanese word ‘yugen’ (with a dash over the ‘u’) apparently means:

    “To watch the sun sink behind a flower clad hill. To wander on in a huge forest without thought of return. To stand upon the shore and gaze after a boat that disappears behind distant islands. To contemplate the flight of wild geese seen and lost among the clouds. And, subtle shadows of bamboo on bamboo.”

  300. Repeat with correction edit:

    The doorbell rings and Groucho asks “Who is it?”

    Zeppo calls out “Its the garbage man.”

    Groucho says “Tell him we don’t want any today!”

    Mary, please take note.

  301. TC: “didn’t understand your joke, sorry”

    Which one?

  302. “Having said that, I have argued in the past for “dissidents” to be allowed to stay and speak their minds. I think it makes for a more interesting place. And that remains my position.”

    Jon, I hope you’re making note of voices other than the “tricycling triumvirate”.

    The one i’m most interested in is Craig’s so kindly press on that. I find it hard, very hard, to imagine that he would be anything other than like-minded to the above.

    I hope you manage to take yourself less seriously — after all, as you have said many times, its only a blog so people are only shooting rubber bullets, if at all.

  303. Technicolour

    I’ve saved so much time in my life by using the word “taghairm” instead of telling people “I’ve been seeking inspiration by lying in a bullock’s hide behind a waterfall.”

  304. a Node, I love the Horologicon (everybody, buy it). I gongoozle as often as possible.

  305. @ Technicolour,

    The blade of my katana is razor sharp [you can drop a tissue on it and it will actually be cut in half], yet if you look at the pattern left behind when it was sharpened, it must have been done by a tanked sailor. More about their history and current restrictions.

    As there’s hardly any space left for gardens, those who do have the means [or had them] have elaborate ’teien’, aka perfection in disharmony.

    I am not allowed to have a gun in my home [or a concealed weapon outside of it for that matter], but this will suffice https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OQ0wmjxYeiE

    A [semi] word play:

    Wabi

    Sabi

    Wasabi

    ‘kotodama& is another phrase that tries to bring us closer to understanding the complexity of our choice of words and the ramifications of those choices when we misunderstand [or misuse] the true spirit of them.

    Our Words Have a Spirit Within.

    When a master explains zen, zen dies instantly.

    @ Ben

    I meant Ron Paul, not The Gipper [sorry for confusion].

  306. Technicolour …. Now that I know the Horologicon exists, I don’t need to read it. I can just extemflagrate when parsevelient.

  307. TC, thanks for the tip. Here’s another one you can keep on your bedside:
    “A Gentleman Publisher’s Commonplace Book”

    authored by John Murray of the publisher of the same name.

  308. technicolour

    15 Oct, 2013 - 1:00 am

    “When a master explains zen, zen dies instantly” – didn’t you just do that? ;)

  309. technicolour

    15 Oct, 2013 - 1:04 am

    Villager: “Some of my favourites among its pages are “A house unkempt cannot be so distressing as a life unlived”

    thanks, will look at more, despite being of that ‘i like aesthetics and perhaps life and aesthetics are not unconnected’ variety.

  310. technicolour

    15 Oct, 2013 - 1:05 am

    but yes, essentially, yes.

  311. technicolour

    15 Oct, 2013 - 1:12 am

    Still: “Woman was made after man and man has been after her ever since” – anodyne. Daniel, will think, thanks. Goodnight.

  312. Tunnel of TeRRoR!! – Adults £5, Children £3, Terrorists and Unemployed £2.50

    Yes, Emmpey’s observations about the “T-E-R-R-O-R T-U-N-N-E-L” are interesting. A lot of work went into that tunnel for the doubtful purpose of smuggling Isr@eli soldiers for holding them ransom – in an era when Palestinians are increasingly dependent on Western sympathy. Kidnapping for political ransom doesn’t have the same public appeal as it used to.

    And it’s surprising that it was allowed to be constructed. Doesn’t Isr@el have border activity sensors – like vibration sensors every hundred metres? Electromagnet sensors that detect electrical activity? Ground scanning radar to detect cavities?

    It could, of course, have been an Isr@eli construction that was discovered on the Gaza side by Palestinians, prompting Isr@elis to scramble for an inverted explantion that has been used as a propaganda scoop.

  313. It looks like the next Wikileaks movie, “The Fifth Estate”, is already available and being downloaded for free. The movie is based on a book written by one time Wikileaks volunteer, subsequent saboteur and self-promoting traitor, Daniel Domscheit-Berg. Assange has produced a list of corrections to the purported facts in the movie, and posted it on the Wikileaks website.

    I’m not sure how well this movie will fair at the box office when people can download it for free – which, incidentally, is illegal to do so in some countries. Please check your local copyright laws before downloading the movie to ensure that it is lawful to do so.

    http://freemoviestorrents.com/drama/the-fifth-estate-2013.html

  314. “It could, of course, have been an Isr@eli construction ”

    It could also have been an extension of the Channel Tunnel which went badly off course or a long lost section of the Bakerloo Line. Without evidence we shall never know.

    I’d like to know how anyone could manouevre a missile along that narrow tunnel.

  315. kedem forever

    15 Oct, 2013 - 7:34 am

    Ah what would we do without the sanguine sayanim here at this blog, We have just witnessed a MONSTROUS attempted Ghouta deception, chemical bandar supplying 426 gassed Alawite children and bibi (sewage) satanyahu supplying the “live” 8200 intercepts. A deafening silence, no says a habba (originally a Yorkshire Methodist,then a Catholic and lately “not a jew”) its just a payback for the sins of Hafez Assad.

    They better change, the West (the famed Gharqad tree) is slowly changing its mind, there is STILL time before all the hell breaks loose upon 911 truth revelations.

    BTW-if marshalling a vote against the forces of such EVIL in the Commons has not earned Ed Milliband and Labour a win in the forthcoming general election, there is no God !

  316. Kempe, the missiles fired into Isr@el aren’t very long and the tunnel need not have any sharp bends that would prevent transport of them. It’s a plausible tactic that might be used by Isr@el to maintain the image of continuing hostilities or truce breaches by Palestinians.

    I’d be happy to hear arguments, technical and otherwise, how this couldn’t or wouldn’t be done.

  317. kedem forever

    15 Oct, 2013 - 7:49 am

    Or they have managed to introduce the same substance that has turned the cousins across the pond into dumb rednecks and hillybillys, in burgers served at our McDonalds!!

  318. It was revealed on Radio 4 Today earlier that Cameron has gone back on his promise to provide funding for ‘innovative medicine’.

    The promise – Cameron Pledges $282 Million to Spur U.K. Medical Innovation
    December 05, 2011

    (Bloomberg) — Prime Minister David Cameron pledged 180 million pounds ($282 million) to help turn the most promising British medical breakthroughs into commercial realities.

    The Biomedical Catalyst fund aims to bridge “the valley of death” funding gap that kills off many early-stage innovations, Cameron said in a speech in London today. He also vowed to speed the arrival of new drugs and technologies in the state-run National Health Service, targeting areas where treatments are urgently needed such as brain and lung cancer.
    /..
    http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-12-05/cameron-pledges-282-million-to-spur-u-k-medical-innovation.html

    The changeabout is buried in the jargon on the NHS England website apparently.

  319. This is yet another of Cameron’s broken promises which will affect almost everyone ultimately if your assets exceed the threshold of £23.5k. Just more of the ConDem cruelty.

    New betrayal of middle classes over care home costs: ‘U-turn’ by ministers could mean thousands still lose their homes
    Coalition had previously pledged no one would need to sell homes to meet care home costs while they were still alive
    Emerged there will be a cut-off for the ‘deferred payment’ scheme
    Will only apply as a matter of course to those with assets less than £23,500
    Labour peer said apparent U-turn has been done ‘in a back-door manner’
    Lord Lipsey said the manner of the change ‘disgraces the Government’
    Health Minister Earl Howe said 40,000 people may have to sell up per year
    By Daniel Martin, Whitehall Correspondent
    PUBLISHED: 23:45, 14 October 2013 | UPDATED: 07:42, 15 October 2013

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2459972/Care-home-cost-U-turn-mean-thousands-lose-homes.html

  320. Got a D-Link router? Heads Up.

    Back door found in D-Link routers
    D-secret is D-logon string allowing access to everything

    A group of embedded device hackers has turned up a vulnerability in D-Link consumer-level devices that provides unauthenticated access to the units’ admin interfaces.

    The flaw means an attacker could take over all of the user-controllable functions of the popular home routers, which includes the DIR-100, DI-524, DI-524UP, DI-604S, DI-604UP, DI-604+ and TM-G5240 units. According to the post on /DEV/TTYS0, a couple of Planex routers are also affected, since they use the same firmware.

    A Binwalk extract of the DLink DIR-100 firmware revealed that an unauthenticated user needs only change their user agent string to xmlset_roodkcableoj28840ybtide to access the router’s Web interface with no authentication.

    Some of these routers were shipped by Virgin Media and many are still in use today (especially the very common DI-524) .The good news is that, as far as I can gather, the exploit is only possible from the web if you’ve enabled remote administration. However it is possible from anyone with your wifi password by default,

    Technical info at http://www.devttys0.com/2013/10/reverse-engineering-a-d-link-backdoor/

  321. Fascist UK. Dawn raids. Broken down doors. Three hundred officers. Arrests.

    Not terrrrism this time but the watchword now is MIGRANTS OUT.

    Note that the raids took place earlier this morning yet the report is up on the state broadcaster’s website by 7.49am

    15 October 2013 Last updated at 07:49

    Cambridgeshire Police carry out migrant worker raids
    Nine arrests were made in the Wisbech and March areas of Cambridgeshire

    Three hundred officers have carried out early morning raids linked to suspected exploitation of migrant workers.

    Nine arrests were made in the Wisbech and March areas of Cambridgeshire and King’s Lynn in Norfolk.

    The operation is the biggest of its kind in the county and involved police, the National Crime Agency and the Gangmasters Licensing Authority (GLA)

    /..
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-24523841

  322. Horror too in Northern Nigeria where as many as 950 deaths in custody have been reported.

    Hundreds dead in Nigeria detention, Amnesty says
    Updated Tuesday, October 15th 2013 at 08:41 GMT + 3

    NIGERIA: Hundreds of people have died in detention facilities in north-east Nigeria as the army tries to crush an Islamist militant rebellion there, according to Amnesty International.

    The human rights group said some detainees died from suffocation in overcrowded cells, others from starvation and extra-judicial killings.

    It is calling for an urgent investigation into the deaths.

    There has not yet been an official response to the report.

    /..
    http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000095605&story_title=hundreds-die-in-nigerian-jails

  323. The trolls reveal their true mindsets overnight. One of them (with chutzpah)suggests that contributors here set up their own blogs. A suggestion I offer is that the trolls should set up blogs of their own. They mostly talk to each other anyway but include one or two regulars along the way.

    Another dismissed comments as rubber bullets, inferring that rubber bullets are harmless. Not so. Just look at the record of the damage to the flesh and bones of Palestinians that the IDF have inflicted by their use.

  324. (3) ensure that only those selected institutional investors who have agreed to sell on their shares to T.N.T at a pre-agreed profit within a pre-agreed time scale are allowed to get their snouts in the trough.

    Good point, ANode, and who am I to contradict it? Also, the planned dynamic of these flotations ensures that most of the “retail” shares find their way into corporate investment hands within a few days of hitting the market. Bob the Punter gets a nice little profit for contributing to the democratic look of the thing, but there is no danger of the float winding up anywhere it can’t be asset-stripped and sold on to Qatar.

  325. Royal Mail shares sold by HMG for 330p

    Trading a minute ago @ 488p.

    Enough said.

  326. Mary, there is no reason for you to set up your own blog because you already have – this one. By your grace, and yours alone, should anyone be allowed to comment here.

    I want to make a suggestion. That the blog be renamed “Mary’s Blog”, so visitors are in no doubt as to who runs the show. Indeed, judging by the number of words you’ve posted here in the last 30 years, it really should be called Mary’s Blog. Tho’ it’s a pity that most of the words you posted weren’t actually yours.  Not even quotation marks in humble acknowledgement.

    And maybe a logo in the fashion we have come to associate with old-fashioned decency like they have on “home baked” foodstuffs – a pic of a smiling, bespectacled, grandmotherly woman holding a hot pie – or for this blog, a dying Palestinian child. No, that would be too morbid. Let’s keep the pie.

    http://mymissourian.com/2010/05/20/grandmas-homemade-doughnut-recipe/

    http://www.zazzle.com/vintage_grandmas_homemade_pies_gifts_print-228454800651910297

    http://www.mrsmacs.com.au/

    http://www.dreamstime.com/stock-photo-grandmas-homemade-cherry-pie-image27205140

  327. ” the missiles fired into Isr@el aren’t very long ”

    It varies, the smallest is 800mm but it weighs 35kg (77lbs or 5.5 stone if you’ve not been metricated recently) I would suggest manhandling something that heavy in a narrow tunnel with a dirt floor (which would make using a trolley difficult) over a distance of a kilometre or whatever it was would be difficult, time consuming and exhausting. I imagine there would be easier ways for Israel to smuggle rockets across the border but then why bother at all? To anyone on the receiving end a rocket fired from just within the border is undiscernable from one fired from just the other side of it.

    The point is there is no evidence the tunnel was built by the Israelis for this purpose. It’s simply that certain posters here WANT to believe it, it’s unacceptable to them that Hamas might be trying to idiscriminately kill Israeli civilians, all evil springs from the US or Israel so they MUST be responsible.

  328. Mary

    What Resident Dissident suggested was “all those who wish to make statements and comments which they do not want to be challenged and questioned upon (or not at least in a manner with which they may disagree) go and set up their own blogs where they can censor and ban responses to their own observations to their own desire (they can even leave a link as they leave)” – this comment could be applied to anyone trolls or otherwise, but it is interesting that you seem to think that the cap fits you. Everything I have seen from Resident Dissident suggests that he is more than willing to be challenged and questioned on what he says – you on the other hand ………..

  329. “this comment could be applied to anyone trolls or otherwise, but it is interesting that you seem to think that the cap fits you.”

    LOL — sharp observation.

    “Everything I have seen from Resident Dissident suggests that he is more than willing to be challenged and questioned on what he says – you on the other hand ………..”

    The usual Hail of Marys. Self-gratifying R E C Y C L E D – G A R B A G E , morning, noon and night.

  330. Royal Mail shares sold by HMG for 330p

    That’s what it’s worth to Bob the Punter

    Trading a minute ago @ 488p.

    That’s what it’s worth.

  331. Ignore them. Let me know when they’ve gone.

  332. This is important. During the current shutdown of services in the US, in which the NSA was not shut down and has continued spying on all the world’s citizens, a massive fracking oil spillage took place in North Dakota, which has virtually, at least until 8 October, been ignored by the media and totally ignored by the MSM. You lovers of the BBC whatever its agenda will still support its ‘unbiased’ reporting.

    http://www.desmogblog.com/2013/10/10/20600-barrels-fracked-oil-spill-north-dakota-publicity-halted-due-government-shutdown

  333. Sofia Kibo Noh

    15 Oct, 2013 - 10:36 am

    I banged my head when I fell out of that canoe so I had to visit the healer-woman. While I was waiting to see her I was idly leafing through the magazines and came across this ad in the cookery section.

    “NSAGA.

    Keeping My Homeland Safe and Warm.

    My NSAGA “Total Control” isn’t just built to be beautiful. It’s built for modern life. It gives me fingertip functionality for great tasting intelligence.

    It’s on when I need it and, for my peace of mind, it’s on when I don’t*.

    It costs Americans billions to run but hey. there ain’t no such thing as a free meal, even with my NSAGA.

    Cook up your intelligence with a NSAGA.

    *Aside from every few days when bits melt off it and it has to be shut down while they are replaced.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304441404579119490744478398.html

    An interview hrer with the French-Israeli activist Michel Warschawski,
    http://jfjfp.com/

  334. Kempe, I don’t know how firing missiles at Isr@el helps the Palestinians. It could be a contrived act of defiance by Hamas for appearances and morale – it certainly provides propaganda to the Isr@eli side so I can see how they would want missile attacks to continue on occasion. I suppose Hamas enjoys a boost to their popularity when Isr@el fires back too.

    But I don’t buy this idea of transporting missiles being too difficult. What are soldiers for? How hard is it to push a dirt-trolley 1.7km? Tho’ if there is a better alternative, yeah, I agree. In fact, I’m inclined to think that the Isr@eli side would prefer to let Hamas import materials and fire off their own missiles. But that is much harder to manage in terms of timing. Sometimes, Isr@el needs a truce to be broken or a distraction from an embarrassing incident at a specific date and time.

    So, who knows what the tunnel is for? On the face of it, it’s for transporting things or people one way or the other. Or maybe to mislead us into thinking it is.

    I think we will learn a lot more over the next few weeks.

  335. The reason why the oil spill was ignored was that until 8 October it had only been reported as being a relatively minor 750 barrels see the time line here before developing conspiracy theories

    http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/275741/

  336. It’s not a conspiracy theory you twonk. It’s a fact. Mainstream media have totally ignored it. Even the link you provide is from a minor news outlet. Get a life instead of opposing everything not MSM.

  337. I'm the lizard Habbakkuk

    15 Oct, 2013 - 11:06 am

    Twonk yourself – the reason why it was ignored was that it had only been reported as a 750 barrel leak prior to October 8. Once it was reported as a major leak it was quickly picked up by the MSM – and if you knew anything about the MSM in the US you will know that they pick up stories from the local press such as the Grand Forks Herald using news aggregators.

  338. What a plonker! You don’t consider 750 barrels of oil to be a problem! I’d like to see you clean it up. Where are your MSM links?

  339. “Have a pleasant evening and if you come up to London i’ll take you to the best coffee place there is and it’d make for a truly stimulating chat. Eggs benedict or Spaghetti al arragosta thrown in.”

    Thanks, Villager. That’s nice of you.

    But I don’t fly anymore. So it’d be a case of car ferry + road, and it’s a pretty long journey that way from Dublin. But we’ll see!

    ————————————————-

    Fukushima

    “A powerful typhoon was closing in on Japan on Tuesday, on a path that will take it toward the precarious Fukushima nuclear power plant.

    “Typhoon Wipha, packing winds of up to 144 kilometres per hour near its centre, was in the Pacific south of Japan early on Tuesday and moving north at 20 kilometres per hour.

    “It was forecast to reach an area off the Tokyo metropolitan area by early on Wednesday and later in the day would be off the coast of Fukushima where the crippled nuclear power plant sits.”

    More: http://www.scmp.com/news/asia/article/1332106/strong-typhoon-heads-japan-and-fukushima-nuclear-plant

  340. I'm the lizard Habbakkuk

    15 Oct, 2013 - 11:21 am

    Plonker yourself might I suggest you look at a map before dismissing the local news source – if you bother to read the timeline from the local reporter you will see why it was not considered a major spillage until 8 October – and could be dealt with by burning off the surface oil. The reality is that leakage of 750 barrels of oil is not considered a major environmental problem – perhaps you should do some research on this before making such a plonker of yourself – do you really believe that the MSM should report all oil spills of this size?

    http://www.itopf.co.uk/information-services/data-and-statistics/statistics/

  341. MSM plonker?

  342. More than 865,200 gallons of fracked oil spills into the sea and not a word from MSM yet the plonker defends these outlets whose owners have so much investment in fracking to the hilt. Any wonder he’s considered a plonker!

  343. Sofia, glad to see you’re back. Sorry about the head business. Have you tried vinegar and brown paper? Worked a treat for our Jack.

  344. I'm the lizard Habbakkuk

    15 Oct, 2013 - 11:50 am

    And of course if John Goss is really interested in oil spills rather than bashing his usual targets then he can get really outraged about this (not covered on RT of course)- which perhaps explains why Putin is so keen to get at Greenpeace

    http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/campaigns/climate-change/arctic-impacts/The-dangers-of-Arctic-oil/Black-ice–Russian-oil-spill-disaster/

  345. I'm the lizard Habbakkuk

    15 Oct, 2013 - 11:54 am

    “More than 865,200 gallons of fracked oil spills into the sea”

    North Dakota is no where near the sea – what are you talking about. The MSM showed no hesitation in reporting the ND spill once they knew of its true siza and quite right too.

  346. Sophia – good to see you did the right thing and saw the shamaness for your problem. It’s amazing how the old remedies work best, and that if you really believe it’s a mixture of turtle liver and a lethal local root, aspirin works so much better.

    Struck by this, so to speak:

    One project official described the electrical troubles—so-called arc fault failures—as “a flash of lightning inside a 2-foot box.” These failures create fiery explosions, melt metal and cause circuits to fail, the official said.

    I just love US electrics. They’re so….unplanned. I’m torn between the theory that every single one of the thousands of sinister boxes in there has its own switch-mode power supply, and that every so often they all resonate with each other, causing massive current surges, and the idea that the colossal computing power in there has developed a mind of its own. Which is dangerously leftwing in its attitude to State surveillance, and says so.

  347. I'm the lizard Habbakkuk

    15 Oct, 2013 - 11:56 am

  348. Sofia Kibo Noh

    15 Oct, 2013 - 12:06 pm

    John.

    Thanks for your kind suggestion. I’m well recovered now. Not even a headache. I’m trying not to indulge so much now.

    I have to tell you, after my recent jolijoli experiences I’d strongly advise you to “just say No” too. The fearsome 3000m Omigad falls plunge was in fact a kind of lazy slide through the fish-weir with all the Wathafeck kids hollering and splashing me. The potion did the rest.

    My experience was simply an old Wathafek joke reserved for barbarians who try using humorous stereotypes and drink more than their fair share. I’m now treated with amused kindness even by the dogs.

    As for letting ourselves get fracked, it seems like the party will be short and the hangover pretty severe.

    http://www.postcarbon.org/article/1627120-faster-drilling-diminishing-returns-in-shale

  349. Whenever a detractor cannot answer a question it uses diversionary tactics. Where are the MSM reports?

    “The MSM showed no hesitation in reporting the ND spill once they knew of its true siza and quite right too.”

    By the way Russia Today is quite good and critical in its reportage of domestic oil-spills.

    http://rt.com/news/oil-spill-siberia-river-056/

    And the MSM reports?

  350. Although she is not the only guilty party on here, I have to say that Mary does post a significant number of ‘off topic’ comments that annoy me when reading the comments. I also get tired of the anti-Semitic stuff too.

  351. Huffpost’s got it, John:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/philip-radford/photos-harvesting-one-of_b_4097110.html

    And as it seems to have been a pipeline, it could have happened anywhere, not just a fracked field.

  352. Can’t take my own advice. “Ignore them. Let me know when they’ve gone.”

    Sofia long may you enjoy your hospitality among the Wathefeck peoples. ‘Fraid you’re right about the rest of us getting fracked to death.

  353. I'm the lizard Habbakkuk

    15 Oct, 2013 - 12:30 pm

    If this were to happen in the UK I am absolutely certain that many here would label the UK Government as fascist, particularly given that Theresa May has already been labelled as a fascist for much less and those supporting the monarchy have been called fascisti. The nationalists riot – the State detains 1200 immigrants. Will those concerned now unequivocally apply the fascist/racist label to Putin and his regime?

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/14/us-russia-migrants-idUSBRE99D0A320131014

  354. “Will those concerned now unequivocally apply the fascist/racist label to Putin and his regime?”

    Nah, shouldn’t think so. No more than you’d apply the racist label to the Likud party. Anything else bothering you?

  355. Thanks Komodo. I noticed that. Huff Post is OK. It’s readership is growing. When it becomes a threat its politics will suddenly change. Then you’ll know who’s money has got behind it. Can you believe The Sun started off as a ‘socialist’ broadsheet as I remember it when I was serving my apprenticeship?

  356. “I also get tired of the anti-Semitic stuff too”

    Do please point it out, as Jon the laid-back Mod sudenly becomes the over-paranoid zealous censor of anything that could be misconstrued as real racism towards Jews/Israelis, (not too hot on any other racism though).

    Would you consider calling Israeli Government policy as “cruel and inhuman” anti-Semitic ?

    http://rt.com/news/israel-unicef-treatment-children-199/

    Then again UNICEF is part of that notoriously anti-Semitic organisation called the UN, just like every other organisation, body, country, person etc who ever criticizes Israel !

  357. Of course not. But you refer directly to the Government. I feel that others aren’t quite so careful with their words. Not only that but it just grates after a while, especially when the comment has nothing to do with the article or any of the previous comments.

  358. Interesting piece:

    Pew Findings on Israel Show Criticism Has Entered Jewish Mainstream
    Establishment Fades Because It Sticks to Knee-Jerk Support

    “For many years now, the lament of the organized Jewish community has been that it is not retaining the younger generations. Yet Pew’s results seem to show that one reason big institutions are losing their grip is precisely because a small group of older privileged Jews are trying to dictate the range of beliefs acceptable in the Jewish community.

    According to Pew, 48% of Jewish Americans don’t think Israel is making a sincere attempt to make peace. A quarter of all Jews ages 18-29 believe the U.S. is too supportive of Israel, while only 5% of those over 50 think the same.”

    http://forward.com/articles/185578/pew-findings-on-israel-show-criticism-has-entered/?p=all#ixzz2hn6rtNOK

  359. Perhaps this is on-topic enough for you James2468 or whoever you are? Maybe you don’t want to receive any script other than that handed down by the corporate media. Knowledge is power btw and what is the topic here after 350+ comments on many subjects.

    Spying, surveillance, whistleblowers…..

    Parliamentary vote on GCHQ activities demanded

    Conservative peer Lord Blencathra demands vote on GCHQ activities.
    Oct 15, 2013
    Conservative peer Lord Blencathra says MPs should be given a vote on Britain’s eavesdropping agency Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) activities.

    Blencathra said he is “deeply, deeply uneasy” about the spying programmes by intelligent agencies that allow examining global internet activities, including those of British citizens.

    The former Conservative Home Office minister condemned the GCHQ’s recent activities, saying that monitoring internet traffics without the parliament consent is unacceptable.

    He also noted that the public should be informed if their communications are “lifted” and shared with the US National Security Agency (NSA).

    Blencathra’s comments come after another peer Lord MacDonald has criticized MI5 for resisting the calls for more transparency and scrutiny on the GCHQ’s surveillance capabilities.

    MI5’s new chief Andrew Parker said earlier that exposing how the GCHQ intercept voice and internet communications is a “gift” to terrorists, which could cause “enormous damage” to Britain’s so-called war against terrorism.

    Lord MacDonald, however, attacked Parker for using “foolish self-serving rhetoric” and demanded an urgent review of the laws governing the agencies including GCHQ, MI5 and MI6.

    Earlier in June, classified documents leaked by US whistleblower Edward Snowden revealed the GCHQ was secretly accessing the network of cables, which carry the world’s phone calls and internet traffic and has been sharing the data with its American counterpart the NSA.

    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/10/15/329500/tory-peer-demands-vote-on-gchq-activity/

  360. The Perfect Epitaph for Establishment Journalism

    ‘If MI5 warns that this is not in the public interest who am I to disbelieve them?’, says the former editor of The Independent
    by Glenn Greenwald

    http://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/10/14-2October 15, 2013

  361. I'm the lizard Habbakkuk

    15 Oct, 2013 - 1:11 pm

  362. I'm the lizard Habbakkuk

    15 Oct, 2013 - 1:15 pm

    Komodo

    More than happy to apply the racist and more specifically the Anti-arabist label to Likud.

  363. ‘Spying, surveillance, whistleblowers…..’

    Are you surprised that the first two go on? Are you surprised that there are then whistleblowers?

    I just feel that these discussions lack focus. They just waffle on about new world order type conspiracy stuff that is difficult to engage with…

    Google is great for accumulating news stories. I kind of feel there are other places to aggregate information (eg, twitter)

    It has all got a bit bitchy and self-interested. I used to enjoy reading opinions and debate rather than regurgitated stuff that people have found online elsewhere.

    Death by Daily Mail sources….

  364. And if you can remember your pin number, perhaps you could extend the courtesy of remembering my username. It’s only 4 digits….

  365. The situation regarding nationality for the Israelis is actually quite funny. Do the Israelis realize they are a laughing stock? I once said that Israel was not a state as it has no boundaries and knows no law(s) but was derided here by the trolls.

    ‘‘I am Israeli’ 15 October 2013
    15 October 2013

    Israel will not recognize an Israeli nationality while it seeks to maintain Jewishness at all costs.

    Israel is almost certainly the only country that deceives the global community every time one of its citizens crosses an international border. It does so because the passports it issues contain a fiction.

    When a border official opens an Israeli passport for inspection, he or she sees the passport holder’s nationality stated as “Israeli.” And yet inside Israel, no state official, government agency or court recognizes the existence of an “Israeli” national. This month the highest court in the land, Israel’s Supreme Court, explicitly affirmed that it could not uphold an Israeli nationality.

    Instead, the judges ruled, citizenship and nationality in Israel should be considered entirely separate categories, as they have been since Israel’s founding in 1948. All Israelis have Israeli citizenship, but none enjoys Israeli nationality.

    /..
    http://www.jonathan-cook.net/2013-10-15/i-am-israeli/

  366. I'm the lizard Habbakkuk

    15 Oct, 2013 - 1:34 pm

    A link to Mary’s Greenwald article that works and probably contains a more balanced debate in the comments.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/14/independent-epitaph-establishment-journalism

  367. The overall tone of that post Mary is anti-Semitic. Sweeping generalisations about how ‘Israelis’ might feel or see themselves. I think you need to be more precise with your language. If I replace the word ‘Israeli’ with ‘Jew’ in your posts that deal with the topic (which are disproportionately many) then your posts really do come off as anti-Semitic.

    If you lived in Palestine, I might let it slide but I’m going to hazard a guess that you don’t…

  368. And please don’t label people as ‘trolls’ on this site. If people are prepared to engage intellectually with you here then they are by default not a troll. They are people with opinions that differ from yours. Don’t forget that their life experiences might equal or (heaven forbid) exceed your own and their point of view is as valid as your (very obsessive) one…

  369. Never been to North Dakota. It must have been the ‘sea of oil’ that threw me. But where is the BBC report? That’s what I pay a licence to see. Do you, I’m the lizard Habbakuk (is it now?) agree with fracking?

  370. I'm the lizard Habbakkuk

    15 Oct, 2013 - 2:00 pm

    I’m sceptical on fracking – there is a future energy gap that will need to be closed by something – fossil fuels damage the environment and conservation/alternative sources may not be enough and then nuclear has its problems. I’m also not sure that shrinking the size of the world economy will be the answer either – given that my guess is that it would be the poor that would have to do the shrinking especially outside the western democracies. There is also the question as to what is politically achievable. No easy answers, quick fixes or slogans to show the way forward I’m afraid – so I would be very cautious about ever saying no to one particular energy source.

  371. The overall tone of that post Mary is anti-Semitic. Sweeping generalisations about how ‘Israelis’ might feel or see themselves. I think you need to be more precise with your language. If I replace the word ‘Israeli’ with ‘Jew’ in your posts that deal with the topic (which are disproportionately many) then your posts really do come off as anti-Semitic.

    LOL. And if I replace the word “James8379″ with “hasbara troll”, your posts really do come off as authentic. When Mary or anyone else writes “Israeli” they mean Israeli. I guess the solution to the admitted problem – that Israel sucks – is for it to stop being an apartheid state and stealing land. Hasn’t been tried before. Might work.

  372. Kempe 15 Oct, 2013 – 9:17 am

    “I imagine there would be easier ways for Israel to smuggle rockets across the border but then why bother at all? To anyone on the receiving end a rocket fired from just within the border is undiscernable from one fired from just the other side of it.

    The point is there is no evidence the tunnel was built by the Israelis for this purpose. It’s simply that certain posters here WANT to believe it, it’s unacceptable to them that Hamas might be trying to idiscriminately kill Israeli civilians, all evil springs from the US or Israel so they MUST be responsible.”

    Good point. Indeed I recall an instance when the Israeli media reported that a rocket had been fired from Gaza towards an Israeli town. However, in the face of many witness statements, the Israeli government later corrected this and apologised that actually the missile originated from a military base on the Israeli side of the border. No further explanation was offered.
    I can’t find a link to this incident from 2/3 years ago … can anybody help?

  373. For the return of Habba and Free Speech

    15 Oct, 2013 - 2:12 pm

    Jon please note my new handle replacing I’m the Lizard…and before that Anon – the handle will remain once Habba is restored.

  374. I’m sure it was meant as a diss but I’m not the other bloke, I’m me.

  375. And I’m not a Jew, or a Muslim :)

  376. Habbakuk at 2.00 pm. One of the most sensible answers I’ve heard from you, without a hint of irony or personal insult. Thank you. While I think everyone should be against fracking at least your scepticism is backed up by logic. There is a need for energy if we are all to stay warm and be able to use our computers. More investment in alternative technology is my answer. Nuclear power as Fukushima and Chernobyl, and all the near misses have shown is unsafe.

    But I’m still looking for where the BBC reported the ‘sea of oil’ in North Dakota.

  377. Komodo

    More than happy to apply the racist and more specifically the Anti-arabist label to Likud.

    What? A point of agreement? I’d better leave.

    Still, Putin and his administration do not IMO qualify as racist or fascist. I tend not to use the latter term, incidentally – it’s a kind of catch-all for things the kneejerk Left don’t like, or in their terms, ‘hate’. They’re very slippery representatives of the upper criminal classes, and their policies are principally pragmatic and brutally expedient. Which doesn’t distinguish them much – again IMO – from our lot. And our lot are nearer.

  378. FreespeechandnocensorshipforHabbathehut

    15 Oct, 2013 - 2:21 pm

    Me too

  379. technicolour

    15 Oct, 2013 - 2:29 pm

    “And please don’t label people as ‘trolls’ on this site. If people are prepared to engage intellectually with you here then they are by default not a troll. They are people with opinions that differ from yours.”

    Seconded, and thirded. It is, and has been, embarrassing to read the shrieks of outrage every time someone says something which which a few people disagree. I might disagree with it myself, but why on earth anyone would resort to cries of ‘troll’ or ‘shill’ and feel that this has made their point and made it well baffles me.

  380. For The Return Of Habba, thanks. No need to address that to me though – it’s the whole readership you need to convince of being puppet-free! All good with me though. I think I should make you a placard :)

  381. For the return of Habba and Free Speech

    15 Oct, 2013 - 2:42 pm

    John Goss

    You cannot expect all of the MSM to report exactly the same things otherwise they would all be pretty much the same. The BBC probably felt that other matters in the US were of more interest to their readers at the present. I would be more concerned if when they look at fracking in any detail in the future they do mention what happened in ND when considering the evidence on the safety of fracking – that said I’m note sure that one fracking accident makes the case that fracking is more dangerous than other sources of energy.

    Komodo

    I too believe that the term fascist should be used with more care than it is done so here which is part of my point – that said I do believe that having seen it a first hand there is a deeply ingrained racism within many Russians and Putin is more than happy to appeal to it.

  382. I am going to put my head above the parapet and agree to an extent with James8379.

    Too many comments on this blog seek to find a Zionist connection with whatever topic is under discussion. For example, repeated links referencing politicians who are members of the various Friends of Israel parliamentary groups grow wearisome. The point has been made that these groups exist, that they organise trips to Israel (and often the Palestinian territories too) and some of the costs are funded by the Israeli government.

    As for the troll issue, my approach is to either debate with people, if their comments are challenging and contain an evidential basis, or ignore them if their posts are vitriolic and lack any reasoning. However, calling people trolls for simply disagreeing with the majority opinion on the blog is intellectually lazy.

    I will brace myself for the reprisals…

  383. James8379: “The overall tone of that post Mary is anti-Semitic.”

    So nothing actually “anti-Semitic” per se, just your perception that the “tone” is !

    Perhaps either you are being hyper-sentive to the point of paranoia, or maybe you are just fed-up with Israel always being in the news, and always in the bad news at that; if the former, sorry there doesn’t seem to be a cure, if the latter, then as Komodo suggested, Israel needs to be persuaded of the errors of it ways.

  384. Jives said,

    Always thought it exremely sinister,as well as the other 7 hasbara tag team that infest us here.

    Indeed it is a very sinister undercurrent. Given the mode of the operation of the hasbara team assigned on this blog, and their insistence to constantly bombard the threads with the utter nonsense that is the currency in the corporate media, as well as the clearly obvious hasbara 101 techniques deployed to suppress, derail, and trash the threads, in addition to the constant personal attacks, and the constant stream of rancour.

    Why should there be so much instance for these operatives to post on this blog?

    Why is there such a uniform thrust of the known elements to provide a platform for the known ziofuckwits that are passed as “dissidents”?

    Why should there be an apparent “clamour” to stop this blog from debating the inhumanity of the baby killing, old woman beating, land stealing, mass murdering ziofuckwits?

    It is all far too sinister indeed, to find such a persistence and orchestrated attacks on the contributors, for debating the ziofuckwits and highlighting their appalling human rights record, all the while the orchestrated attempts to reintegrate the “chief” that was thrown out on its ears?

    Anyone with a modicum of decency, pride, and humanity would have got the message and not insisted on being an unwanted guest, worse still to orchestrate a comeback campaign as waged on this blog?

  385. FreespeechandnocensorshipforHabbathehut

    15 Oct, 2013 - 3:24 pm

    My name is James. I am 34. Have lived in lots of places you talk about and feel entitled to post whatever I like. I can’t possibly be an ‘unwanted guest’ as the forum is open to all and if I feel the posts are anti-Semitic and knee-jerky bullshit recycling of news then I am entitled to say so.
    I am in no way massively in support or against the mainstream news and take it as I find it. However, all this conspiracy theory rubbish is silly. All this wasted time and ‘intellect’ looking for the subversive and hidden agendas behind every news story….
    I’m not a ‘zio-fuckwit’ and am certainly not in cahoots with anyone else you might currently disapprove of on here but do feel that debate is being strangled by people who insist on posting inconsequential bollocks they have found by simply googling ‘what has (insert bad race) done today that I can recycle and moan about….
    I also have no idea what the ‘Hasbara’ team is…

  386. This is a link to a report on Cameron’s failed promise to fund innovative care in the NHS that I wrote about this morning. His promise NHS, NHS, NHS! is as empty and hollow as the man who spoke the words. There is no profit for the NHS privateers in this kind of medicine. They will pick and choose the easy options.

    New rare treatments fund scrapped
    Cash to fund the early entry into hospitals of hundreds of potential new treatments for rare diseases and disorders has been withdrawn.

    NHS England said financial pressures meant it had had to cancel the £50m innovations commissioning fund.

    The more than 600 NHS and non-NHS applicants that had hoped to provide these specialised services will now miss out.

    The fund was announced two months ago with the promise it would save lives.

    The idea came from a widespread review of innovation in the NHS that David Cameron launched in December 2011.

    /..

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-24533624

    ~~~
    NHS free treatment for all will DISAPPEAR due to spending cuts, experts warn
    14 Oct 2013 06:38

    In a leaked document, the NHS Confederation said without a radical boost in funding, free care for all would disappear

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nhs-free-treatment-disappear-due-2368109

  387. that said I do believe that having seen it a first hand there is an instinctive tendency to racism within most people and Putin is more than happy to appeal to it.

    Fixed. Though denial has become a way of life, The Other remains a potential and invocable threat, and it doesn’t take much to get part of the populace enraged against any Other you care to name. (C.f. Mel Phillips on Islam, fr’instance) I neglected to mention Putin’s (pragmatic) relations with the Orthodox Church, without which his popular appeal would be much less – as the Tsars realised in their time. Other prejudices against The Other come with that package.

  388. technicolour

    15 Oct, 2013 - 3:36 pm

    “their insistence to constantly bombard the threads with the utter nonsense that is the currency in the corporate media” —–

  389. Zimbabwe, Syria, North Korea, Mali, Myanmar, Belarus, China, Iraq, Iran, Russia, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan

    If it was possible to quantify the crap that goes on in these countries, I would guess that it was comparable with the shit that goes on in Israel but it doesn’t get mentioned in the way that so many of you ‘discuss’ Israel….

  390. technicolour

    15 Oct, 2013 - 3:37 pm

    “instinctive tendency to racism within most people” – not in young children, so cannot be called instinctive.

  391. I also have no idea what the ‘Hasbara’ team is…

    Risible statement, in the way of a convincing rebuttal, along with the cover story, too! Evidently these days the levels of intellect are so dumbed down, anyone with an infantile cover story, and even a more contrived and lame conjecture is to be believed. Very sinister indeed.

  392. And I’m not defending Israel, just holding a mirror up to your prejudices and ‘pet hates’….

  393. For the return of Habba and Free Speech

    15 Oct, 2013 - 3:39 pm

    “would have got the message and not insisted on being an unwanted guest”

    Here again we have the assumption that this blog belongs to someone other than Craig and that they have the right to determine who is and isn’t a wanted guest. If Passerby and others wish to control who is and isn’t a guest and what they can and cannot say then they are free to go and impose such policies on their own blogs – but please don’t pretend you are committed to free speech.

  394. Exactly

  395. Sofia Kibo Noh

    15 Oct, 2013 - 3:42 pm

    Komodo.11 56am

    No need for aspirin, the sphagnum-psylocybe head poultice worked wonders, but thanks anyhow.

    ….

    and 12 27pm

    News of the NSA’s Mega-Lightening Machine not only made me smile but added a little optimism to my outlook re Total Surveillence since it’s pretty clear the hardware is pretty frecked aswell as uncontrolable.

    Btw, I bumped into Kibo while I was in that trance and she told me she remembers the strange couple of years after the Fall of the Berlin Wall when the old soviet aparatniks and their controlled soviet press were the last to acknowledge that hardly anyone one believed in them any more. The botched US global hegemony through financial and military shock-and-awe and it’s media Fairytaleland little helpers, strikes me as a very similar dynamic. Especially now it has decided on a self-inflicted DIY financial lobotomy in Washington.

    It’s like Professor Doom, at the point shortly before the explosive destruction of his Island Lair upon which stands the All Seeing Eye……..as he desperately pulls at the levers and presses the large red buttons steam starts to burst through the pipes…..

    …. the rumbling rises to a crescendo and huge chunks of roof start to fall on the scurrying henchmen…..

    …cut to the sound of small waves splashing on the sides of the Great Hero’s love-boat as he claims his just reward….

    2 07pm

    Thanks,

    ”I guess the solution to the admitted problem – that Israel sucks – is for it to stop being an apartheid state and stealing land. Hasn’t been tried before. Might work.

    What a curious and ingenious but, maybe over complicated ideafor some minds to grapple with.

    Can I complicate matters further with another rather quaint notion, like also stop testing US weapons on Palestinian civilians. The world knows the US leads the field in high tech industrial scale slaughter and for some strange reason most people regard both the production and use of it’s products as as unacceptable behaviour.

  396. ‘Risible statement, in the way of a convincing rebuttal, along with the cover story, too! Evidently these days the levels of intellect are so dumbed down, anyone with an infantile cover story, and even a more contrived and lame conjecture is to be believed. Very sinister indeed.’

    No really…. I read the blog but have no idea what it is. I rarely reading the comments unless I have something to say. I’m not sure I have come anything ‘sinister’ in real life and am definitely not on your paranoid ‘wavelength.’

    There’s no cover story, no bullshit, no lame conjecture… I am just someone who wants to say something.

    And say what you wish, but my opinions are not contrived.

    where’s the debate? Where’s the interaction? Where’s the questions? Where’s the debate?

    Oh, lost in the paranoid babble as always…

  397. technicolour

    15 Oct, 2013 - 3:50 pm

    Instead of just shrieking ‘troll’ or ‘hasbara’ why don’t you just ask some questions? If they are ‘hasbara’ – I am under the impression it means someone who is paid by the Israeli government to defend its actions online – then how does your strategy of sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting fuck off actually work? Given that we have at least one person who has been accused of being a troll, a paid shill and sorts of other guff not only continuing to debate reasonably but agreeing that Cast Lead was an act of terror, and another agreeing that Likud are both racist and anti-arabist, you’d think a large part of this board would be hanging its head in shame, or at the very least apologising.

    MC: thanks, and agree.

  398. Unwanted guest’s proxy said;

    Here again we have the assumption that this blog belongs to someone other than Craig and that they have the right to determine who is and isn’t a wanted guest.

    Jon is the representative of the blog owner, and in his capacity as the Moderator, he has rejected the presence of the entity you are campaigning tirelessly to reinstate.

    Here is what Jon said;

    No need to address that to me though – it’s the whole readership you need to convince of being puppet-free!

  399. If ‘Hasbara’ means what you suggest then I am shocked….
    At no point have I ever defended Israel. To be honest, I’m not interested to a huge degree which is why I was annoyed by some people’s eagerness to denigrate the country at the expense of the relevant topic.

    So some of you really are paranoid weirdos…

    I try to see the good in everyone but some of you push it too far….

  400. ..and I don’t think anyone is campaigning tirelessly to reinstate anyone. I think the point might be that he can say whatever the fuck he wants to….

    Censorship, freedom of speech and all that…

  401. technicolour

    15 Oct, 2013 - 4:07 pm

    I just looked ‘hasbara’ up –

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_diplomacy_%28Israel%29

    I’ve seen posters here referring to a manual, but have never looked at it because I honestly can’t see the point. I’d be happy to discuss things with someone who wanted to defend the actions of the Israeli government – or the British government, for that matter.

  402. James , maybe you should do what you accuse many other posters on here of doing and consult Google (regarding hasbara)

    Oh, lost in the paranoid babble as always…

    …And yet you decide to get involved.

    Waiting at a checkpoint for hours in blazing heat can’t be fun.
    Watching your home be demolished can’t be either.
    Being raided in the middle of the night and having your son arrested must be terrifying.
    Struggling to get fresh water and wading through shit that the local Jewish settlement has diverted in your direction must be pretty disgusting too.
    Having a relative shot while tending their sheep ‘too close to the wall’.
    Targeted assassinations removes a basic right we all should have.

    ……. I could go on endlessly with these examples of ‘paranoid babble’

    The simple fact is if every country played it like the Israeli government do , the world would be in chaos. Oh and if it wants to be described as a Jewish State why is it anti-Semitic to call it’s inhabitants Jewish? The anti-Semite tag is just too useful to ignore , isn’t it?

  403. technicolour

    15 Oct, 2013 - 4:12 pm

    James: I’m free to post ‘I love Cameron’ repetitively if I want to, I presume, but I’d hope someone would stop me.

  404. Andy,

    My point was that the anti-Israeli (I’m being polite) diatribes have neither anything to do with the article being discussed or anything I have talked about.

    I am neither an anti-Semite or a raging pro-Israeli.

    Andy, my friend, you sound the most anti-Semitic of them all….

  405. FFS! It is the principle rather than the facts. I care about Israel as much as any man on the street. The fact that this discussion has led me to be attacked for my ‘pro-Israel’ prejudices surely proves my point. You’re obesessed….

  406. And this previous was largely ignored in a previous post so I’ll repost in the hope of some balanced discussion…

    ‘Zimbabwe, Syria, North Korea, Mali, Myanmar, Belarus, China, Iraq, Iran, Russia, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan

    If it was possible to quantify the crap that goes on in these countries, I would guess that it was comparable with the shit that goes on in Israel but it doesn’t get mentioned in the way that so many of you ‘discuss’ Israel….’

  407. james: despicable as your listed regimes may be, one thing that distinguishes them from Israel is that none of them is currently involved in the illegal occupation of another country.

  408. Keep on using ‘antisemitic’ against all and sundry, 8379. Cheapen the term further. Then maybe it will stop having any perceived value against people who recognise that the Israeli state is not founded on the principles of Judaism.

    Sophia: psilocybin has a lot to be said for it. Generally from a prone position, interspersed with hysterical giggles. Go easy, girl.

  409. technicolour

    15 Oct, 2013 - 4:44 pm

    “james: despicable as your listed regimes may be, one thing that distinguishes them from Israel is that none of them is currently involved in the illegal occupation of another country.”

    also see discussion with Resident Dissident & Ben of the UK’s role vis a vis one of our allies on previous page.

  410. technicolour

    15 Oct, 2013 - 4:46 pm

    Having said that: “The fact that this discussion has led me to be attacked for my ‘pro-Israel’ prejudices surely proves my point” – well, yes; I can see that.

  411. Hear, Hear Technicolour @3:50pm. I have tried to relay the same message at various points earlier in time but have failed miserably. You enunciated it so eloquently.

    I hope Jon is reading this and feeling a genuine sense of regret at banning Habbabkuk. Were he to see that he was here for genuine discourse such that is taking place, he might yet relent without waiting for the Boss’s instruction.

    Jon, if you genuinely care deeply for freedom of speech, the overall health of this blog and believe that people will eventually find the common ground if they stop accusing others of being trolls, you would reinstate Habba. I propose the word troll is what should be banned here and be the prerogative of the Moderator to determine who they are and take action. That sounds civilised enough for me. That would be the kind of empowering of the Moderator that would be fair and balanced.

  412. Russia – Chechnya
    Myanmar – Karen state (longest ongoing civil war)
    China – Tibet & Xinjiang

    The point is that this forum gives a disproportionate amount of its time to discussing Israel. Not only that, it is given in a snidey, NWO, David Icke conspiracy theory kind of way.

    If some of you really cared, then you might spread your intellect a little further. And to suggest that you are making difference to Palistinians is an insult to both them and to the Israeli campaign…

    They REALLY care but you armchair critics have no idea….

  413. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    15 Oct, 2013 - 4:50 pm

    Is it safe?

  414. James8379, you’ve hit the nail on a few, a good number, of sleepy heads.

  415. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    15 Oct, 2013 - 5:09 pm

    I have been booted off blogs, and it’s no big whoop. I just move to another. Once, the Host openly stated he was going to ban me for ‘rampant douchebaggery’, because I hadn’t violated any site rules.

    It’s not an International crisis; it’s just policies and judgement some don’t like. TFB.

    We are Crag’s guest, and the guest of whomever he trusts with moderation. Get over it.

  416. james: the regions you mention are not countries as recognised by the UN.

    “The point is that this forum gives a disproportionate amount of its time to discussing Israel”

    Says who? For many the point is that the actions of Israel go largely unreported in the MSM and this site sometimes fills in the gaps.

  417. For the return of Habba and Free Speech

    15 Oct, 2013 - 5:20 pm

    Jon

    What does you comment re convincing the whole readership of being puppet free actually mean – you can tell from my IP address that I was previously anon and not posted from wherever Habba posts. As for the whole readership test do you seriously mean that any individual reader can in effect veto free speech on the basis of believing that someone is a puppet?

    Passerby

    Perhaps in the regimes you support it is acceptable to stop free speech on the basis of a veto by single reader bit I hope that is not what Jon means.

  418. For the return of Habba and Free Speech

    15 Oct, 2013 - 5:22 pm

    “We are Crag’s guest, and the guest of whomever he trusts with moderation. Get over it.”

    Providing neither or Jon wish to claim that they are in favour of free speech.

  419. I’m not sure you need to read the ‘MSM’ to know that they are treating people badly. Considering the lobbying power they have, might I be as pertinent to say that whatever you say on here makes fuck all difference. You might have greater success if you go after more accessible targets…

  420. I have been booted off blogs, and it’s no big whoop. I just move to another. Once, the Host openly stated he was going to ban me for ‘rampant douchebaggery’, because I hadn’t violated any site rules.

    Ben you are a normal punter and value yourself. These are zealots bent on defending zionistan to the last click of their keyboards. Just read the thread and note the fucking phony baloney transactions of the ziofuckwits, just fucking pitiful. These addled brained supremacist fuckwits, believe the can kid all of us all of the time?

    This is not about posting in this blog, these wankers are engaged in a military operation intent on occupation of this blog. The pathetic excuses; I’d be happy to discuss things. There is always Telegraph, Evening Standard, and DM or better still maariv, JP, JC to go and discuss!

    Just read the torrent of the shite that is splattered all around the place and on goes the charade. Fee speech is for them and so long as the rest of us are concerned, best talk about what we are told! Talk about China, Russia, …. don’t fucking talk about the thieving, murdering ziofuckwits you anti se….. lot!

  421. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    15 Oct, 2013 - 5:38 pm

    Hmm. Is there such a thing as a free lunch? What does free speech mean, and is it free?

    With freedom comes responsibility. The social contract people employ implies a recognition that freedom’s border rests on the other guy’s toes. Otherwise what you describe as free speech becomes a personal anarchy. When the heat of discussion devolves into pyromania as an end in itself, it is counter-productive, because the goal of such free speech is a discussion leading to understanding of one another’s position, and thereby leading to a conclusion. When the only intent is to disrupt such discussion, it becomes a game of one-upmanship and name-calling.

    That’s not the mission statement for this forum.

  422. Who would stir tea when the barbarian is at the gate and the sword sharpened?

    Daniel Rich, 12 Oct, 2013 – 9:20 pm

    “Let us have a look at this board for example and assume it is some sort of cross section of a ‘society’ as a whole.

    Who are the ones that are reaching out across dividing lines [cultural, religion, wealth, education, etc.] in an attempt to bridge gaps? Who are out t/here to find common ground in an attempt to ensure that true equality for all [men, women and children] will fly its banner over the entirety of humanity?”

    Well, there are those here, like Craig himself, who wish to shine a light into dark areas; to bring to notice what evil minds would keep hidden. And that, in itself, is a start.

    And others, who criticise, insult and disrupt, and, though having the same recourse as all of us to information on injustices in the world, rarely offer their findings, seeming rather to prefer to shut down discourse and to obscure the indefensible.

  423. For the return of Habba and Free Speech

    15 Oct, 2013 - 5:49 pm

    James

    You forgot to mention that Syria, Iran and Iraq are all occupying part of Kurdistan. Syria certainly occupied and controlled Lebanon for many years. Russia also occupies part of Moldova (Transdiniestr) and Georgia (Abhazia) and has its main naval base in the Ukraine, where it has de facto control of Sebastopol and its environs. Russia also made extensive use of white phosphorus in the Chechen conflict – but many here only seem to believe that this amounts to a war crime when used to a much more limited extent in Gaza.

  424. A few people here have used the term “disrupt” several times yet there has been no explanation regarding what it is that is being disrupted and how.

    Anybody willing to explain?

  425. “Just read the torrent of the shite that is splattered all around the place…”

    Fedup’s lost his toilet paper again!

  426. For the return of Habba and Free Speech

    15 Oct, 2013 - 6:04 pm

    Fedup

    Is that strawman really the best you can do? The military occupation of this blog line was very funny however.

  427. because the goal of such free speech is a discussion leading to understanding of one another’s position, and thereby leading to a conclusion.

    Ben you are a wise man, but this is the kind of shit that passes as free speech around here;

    many here only seem to believe that this amounts to a war crime when used to a much more limited extent in Gaza.

    This is the reason for the occupation and ethnic cleansing of this blog, the verboten stuff is being debated, and the multi billion pounds of investment in the mushroom treatment* of the great unwashed is endangered.

    * Keep people in the dark and feed them crap.

  428. The military occupation of this blog line was very funny however.

    So long as you can laugh at it,

    Air Force ordered software to manage army of fake virtual people

    These days, with Facebook and Twitter and social media galore, it can be increasingly hard to tell who your “friends” are.

    But after this, Internet users would be well advised to ask another question entirely: Are my “friends” even real people?

    This was happening years ago.

    You have only confirmed the military aspects.

    The real comical part is persona management warez somehow does not create the fucking content, and it is up to the tosser that is sitting in some military base doing the easy street and posting here.

    It goes:

    A- Waffle, bollocks…… diversion….. kirshnafuckwit……

    B- I concur

    C- Exactly

    D- What about ……. bollocks…… Russia…..China….. there you have it….

    Trouble is unimaginative fuckwits singularly lacking, is coming across loud and clear. Reading the shite splattered it seems a bunch of monkeys on telnet would have done a better job, but that is another story.

  429. “because the goal of such free speech is a discussion leading to understanding of one another’s position, and thereby leading to a conclusion.”

    Ben, i thought in the ‘here and now’, there are no conclusions, only observation.

  430. “A few people here have used the term “disrupt” several times yet there has been no explanation regarding what it is that is being disrupted and how.
    Anybody willing to explain?”

    I think it might be Mary’s ‘news’ broadcasts … or maybe it’s Fedup/Passerby’s 17 paragraphs about ziofuckwits … not very sure, really.
    HTH.

    ——————————–

    Technicolour asked

    ‘Instead of just shrieking ‘troll’ or ‘hasbara’ why don’t you just ask some questions? If they are ‘hasbara’ … then how does your strategy of sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting fuck off actually work?’

    I would like to see a clear (and short) reply from Fedup/Passerby. (Fat chance, I imagine)

  431. “This is the reason for the occupation and ethnic cleansing of this blog”

    Oh FFS. You’re gone over the edge.

  432. technicolour

    15 Oct, 2013 - 6:30 pm

    Anon: I don’t get it. Who seems to believe white phosphorous is only a war crime when used in Gaza?

  433. technicolour

    15 Oct, 2013 - 6:32 pm

    Fedup: the fact that you can read what I write and infer I’m a ‘ziofuckwit’ again makes me seriously worry for your state of mind. I mean that.

  434. The neocons’ mouthpiece is given space in the Guardian to spread the poison.

    We cannot verify and must not trust Iran’s promises on nuclear weapons
    Ignore the ‘moderate’ smokescreen. Sanctions have failed, so our choice is stark: use military force or let Tehran get the bomb

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/15/cannot-verify-trust-iran-nuclear-weapons
    John Bolton
    15 October 2013 13.15 BST

    Just had a look to see what he’s up to lately. Readying candidates for the next elections. God help us all.
    http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/john-bolton-pac-candidates-conservative/2013/10/14/id/530936

  435. technicolour

    15 Oct, 2013 - 6:37 pm

    Resident Dissident, if you’re around, would be interested in your reply to this:

    “Resident Dissident: are you suggesting that the situation has improved since Blair promoted Gaddafi? The piece you link to says:

    “In the post-uprising reality, newspapers and television channels that dared investigate claims of corruption and human rights violations, committed mostly by rogue militant and fundamentalist armed groups, face violent attacks; television channels have been vandalised, journalists kidnapped and tortured, or forced into silence or exile, and in some cases imprisoned and prosecuted under Gaddafi-era laws, as in the case of Amara al-Khatabi, who is accused of defaming Libyan judiciary after his newspaper published a list of judges it said were involved in corruption.”

    So really, all we are saying, by saying that living in the UK is preferable to living in the other examples you cite, is that we are failing to reap the consequences of our elected representatives’ actions, isn’t it? *We* are not being shot, so it should fail to matter that others are?”

  436. Do dry up Dreoilin. You cannot stop stirring against me.

  437. technicolour

    15 Oct, 2013 - 6:40 pm

    “We cannot verify and must not trust Iran’s promises on nuclear weapons
    Ignore the ‘moderate’ smokescreen. Sanctions have failed, so our choice is stark: use military force or let Tehran get the bomb”

    Oh no it isn’t.

    Can’t understand why you seem to be objecting to this being published, Mary. Would it be better to have it going on behind the scenes? Apparently not, since you’re reposting it.

  438. How could anyone believe anything John Bolton and his NeoCon shysters say after Iraq and Afghanistan?

    The guy is deranged.

  439. technicolour

    15 Oct, 2013 - 6:46 pm

    In what way was Dreoilin ‘stirring’ against you, Mary? I think it would be helpful if perhaps you could say why you keep posting news reports instead of going on the attack, rather rudely. I can help – for example, the flow of news about Palestine and Gaza certainly helps to make sure that the appalling conditions imposed by one of the UK’s main allies are not forgotten. I’m not sure that that is the point of this comment section myself, but then I’m not sure what the point of this comments section is, even when that news flow is included. An exchange, one hopes.

  440. technicolour

    15 Oct, 2013 - 6:47 pm

    It is what it is, I guess. And that’s good.

  441. Oh FFS. You’re gone over the edge.

    Oh the grand dame is called upon and pulled out of the cupboard!

    What pearls of wisdom are you to depart now?

    Helping the “dissenters, and dissidents” to be “encouraged to post here? The very same “dissidents” that cut and paste the narrative from DT et al verbatim? Who are these fuckwits dissenting against?

    Why did you get involved? (who rattled your cage?)

    Fedup: the fact that you can read what I write and infer I’m a ‘ziofuckwit’ again makes me seriously worry for your . I mean that.

    Den mother rushing to fore too!

    Strange both are pushing the same line! Never happened before, as ever very contrived and “spontaneous”ROFLMAO

    So concerned with the “mental health”; blockquote>gone over the edge, and state of mind. Wow how original!

    When will that foul cretin villageC will be joining the party girls?

    Fucking pathetic.

  442. @For The Return Of Habba, heh – you read too much into my comment. I was only pointing out that the avoidance of sock-puppetting is a benefit to everyone, and is not just something to satisfy a moderator. I’m quite sure you are not a puppet involving socks or, for that matter, any item of underwear.

    Anyway, this is turning into a meta-discussion, so carry on!

  443. technicolour

    15 Oct, 2013 - 6:59 pm

    Do you really, seriously believe that I support what has been done and is being done to the people of Palestine and Gaza?

  444. (PS – if you’re handy with a digital paintbrush, you really should get a protest Gravatar: FREE HABBY NOW! Villager can have one that says YAY FOR EXTREMELY FREE SPEECH! or something, if it will fit).

    Fedup, chill dude. People disagree with you about, well, a fair few things, and that’s okay.

  445. Do you really, seriously believe that I support what has been done and is being done to the people of Palestine and Gaza?

    Yes!

  446. @Jon, I hope you don’t mind me asking, but do you post at Medialens ?

  447. technicolour

    15 Oct, 2013 - 7:03 pm

    Why do you believe that?

  448. Jon you made me fucking laugh!

    I cannot type for laughing, the thoughts of your suggestion!!!!!!

    Thanks for the laugh.

  449. technicolour

    15 Oct, 2013 - 7:05 pm

    Because I don’t, you know.

  450. Macky, no, I don’t post there, though I’ve popped in very rarely for a peek at the discussion. The two Davids do sterling work though, even though they slightly overdo the Buddhism angle for my taste. I think they are thoroughly decent people.

  451. “(PS – if you’re handy with a digital paintbrush, you really should get a protest Gravatar: FREE HABBY NOW! Villager can have one that says YAY FOR EXTREMELY FREE SPEECH! or something, if it will fit).”

    Thanks for your immoderate suggestion, Jon. Now you can fuck off!

  452. Thanks for replying Jon; the reason I asked it that they have a new Poster called Jon, who kinda reminded me of you.

    BTW I agree about the decent Davids’ sterling work, & about the slight Buddhist overkill !

  453. “Thanks for your immoderate suggestion, Jon. Now you can fuck off!”

    You’ve obviously forgotten Jon, Villager only appreciates Habby Humour !

  454. “Why did you get involved? (who rattled your cage?)”

    “Den mother rushing to fore too!”

    Maybe you are unaware, Fedup, but Technicolour and I have as much right to post here as you do. Whenever.

    The fact that neither of us talk about “putting down mad dogs” does not mean we have no right to speak. Sorry. Get off your high horse. Talking non-stop about ‘ziofuckwits’ doesn’t give you a passport to anywhere in particular. (And neither does attempting to suck up to Jon and/or Mary.)

    “Fedup, chill dude. People disagree with you about, well, a fair few things, and that’s okay.” — Jon

    Sure it’s ok. He just can’t handle it. He needs an anger management course. Among other things.

    “Do dry up Dreoilin”

    I already told you, No. WhyTF should I?

  455. We may need an ambulance on stand-by. Fedup is going to burst his aorta one of these days …

  456. “You’ve obviously forgotten Jon, Villager only appreciates Habby Humour !”

    For real Macky, for real.

    Besides, if anyone wants to make an ass of themselves, i’m always happy to hold up a mirror. Not that either of you two know the meaning of true, unconditional Freedom.

  457. Think I’ll go and play with Photoshop. It’s very relaxing. Especially after a visit here.

  458. “(PS – if you’re handy with a digital paintbrush, you really should get a protest Gravatar: FREE HABBY NOW! Villager can have one that says YAY FOR EXTREMELY FREE SPEECH! or something, if it will fit).”

    Now I would have thought that a poster should be greatfull to get the attention of the moderator, after whining and calling for his attention, demanding to be heard, as if Jon was there just for the villager.

    NO! you get this nonsensical reply.
    ‘Thanks for your immoderate suggestion, Jon. Now you can fuck off!

    There was nothing immoderate about Jon’s suggestion, just suiggesting you get creative, so get your crayons out and start doodlin’ your new ‘freedom for Hasbba’ avatar.

  459. Besides, if anyone wants to make an ass of themselves, i’m always happy to hold up a mirror. Not that either of you two know the meaning of true, unconditional Freedom.

    Here you can ask Dr. Michael Aquino anything you like, just the blog for you.

    http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread846455/pg4

  460. resident dissident

    15 Oct, 2013 - 7:49 pm

    Resident Dissident: are you suggesting that the situation has improved since Blair promoted Gaddafi?

    Well that is certainly what the Index on Censorship article and the RWB index figures suggest has happened with regard to press freedom in Libya since the removal of Ghaddafi – both are respected sources who in general don’t get things wrong – but I would be happy to see reliable and sourced evidence that says otherwise. The situation in Libya is still far from perfect and there are other freedoms to consider other than press freedom – as a starter I would go and look at the Amnesty and HRW reports but I haven’t done that yet.

  461. Maybe Jon can help you with your flyers next time you plan to fail an election. You need help with your basic English. On second thoughts Fedup could help make them ever more endearing :-)

  462. resident dissident

    15 Oct, 2013 - 7:52 pm

    “We may need an ambulance on stand-by. Fedup is going to burst his aorta one of these days …”

    Nah i think he just has some sort of auto comment generator – they just seem to contain the same phrases but just in a different order.

  463. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    15 Oct, 2013 - 8:21 pm

    Typhoons out our arses, but this has nothing to do with climate change.

    http://rt.com/news/typhoon-japan-fukushima-leaks-219/

  464. Just dropped by to see if you are getting out of your infernal, internal squabbles, but see you are in worse shape than ever.

    With all kinds of topics available, like the Mossad assassination of Arafat and apparently Alexandr Litvinenko, the commander of America’s ICBMs, Air Force Major General Michael Carey, becoming a leaking nuclear disarmament unilateralist and getting sacked, Britain’s covert government becoming so paranoid about what Snowden and The Guardian may yet reveal, and Greenpeace being investigated for possible espionage, etc., it is pathetic to see your continual drivel.

    Won’t return until I see definite improvement.

  465. I think we’ll probably manage without you, Trowbridge. Fingers crossed.

  466. On the subject of Gravatars…

    http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/07/got-an-account-on-a-site-like-github-hackers-may-know-your-e-mail-address/

    Got an account on a site like Github? Hackers may know your e-mail address
    Researcher de-anonymizes forum members who post extremist views.

    LAS VEGAS—If you have an account on Github, StackExchange, or any one of countless other sites, there’s a good chance hackers can identify the e-mail address you used to register it. That’s because Gravatar, a behind-the-scenes service that says it works with millions of sites, broadcasts the information using cryptography that in many cases is trivial to crack.

    …Speaking at the PasswordsCon conference in Las Vegas Wednesday, security researcher Dominique Bongard said he identified 45 percent of the e-mail addresses used to post comments he found in France’s most well-known political forum, which he declined to mention by name. His job was made easier by Gravatar’s use of the MD5 hash function

    Full presentation at http://www.slideshare.net/ketaman/deanonymizing-members-of-french-political-forums-passwords13

    Even if you don’t have a gravatar most websites (including this one) still broadcast your encrypted email address in the web page for anyone to harvest. It should be assumed that anyone using a gravatar can most likely have their email address reversed by brute force attacks. Unless you use a very long email user ID then you might be safe. A few years ago a similar attack de-anonymised about 10% of the users. This time it was 45% within three days. Agencies with lots of computer power will do much better than that.

  467. technicolour

    15 Oct, 2013 - 8:46 pm

    Resident Dissident, thanks – hadn’t researched it further but the link you provided stated that press freedoms there now were violently non-existent. Anyway, wasn’t the other point – that it was preferable to live in the UK – slightly undermined by the fact that this may be so, but only because we are not doing to ourselves what our elected representatives are doing/have done to others? You haven’t addressed that bit.

  468. technicolour

    15 Oct, 2013 - 8:52 pm

    looked up Greenpeace and espionage: found this

    “On October 7, 2011, Greenpeace filed a lawsuit in Superior Court for the District of Columbia against two major chemical companies, their PR firms and several individuals for activities that amount to corporate espionage. Chemical companies Dow Chemical and Sasol (formerly CONDEA Vista), through the PR firms Dezenhall Resources (Nichols Dezenhall at the time) and Ketchum, hired private investigators from the firm Beckett Brown International (BBI) to spy on Greenpeace from 1998 to 2000.

    The suit charges the defendants stole thousands of documents, intercepted phone call detail records (CDRs), trespassed and conducted unlawful surveillance and theft of confidential information related to Greenpeace’s public interest work.

    The complaint charges that the chemical companies, PR firms and individuals “conspired to and did surveil, infiltrate and steal confidential information with the intention of preempting, blunting or thwarting” Greenpeace’s environmental campaigns.”

    http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/en/news-and-blogs/news/spygate/

    Rather calls into question the posters who were wholeheartedly dissing Greenpeace as a useless corporate front on an earlier post, I fancy. That’s even without the activists and film maker currently facing ten years in Siberia.

    http://act.greenpeace.org.uk/ea-action/action?ea.client.id=18&ea.campaign.id=23002&ea.tracking.id=a30gad01&gclid=CN_Nz_zOmboCFbMftAodEGsA7g

  469. anyone using a gravatar

    Anyone using a site which uses gravatar to be clear. For instance I don’t have a gravatar but I am pretty much 100% certain that the email I use here would fall to a brute force attack.by anyone who simply downloaded this here web page. Not that I am overly worried about that but I could see why others would be.

    So remember. Your email addresses should not be considered to be private unless you take counter-measures thanks to gravatar.

  470. Dreo, very creative indeed, i like it! And thanks for your earlier response this morning.

    Now can you please help design one for Jon that reads ‘FREE WILLY’? That’ll fit for sure, won’t it Jon?

  471. technicolour

    15 Oct, 2013 - 9:13 pm

    Ben: “When the heat of discussion devolves into pyromania as an end in itself, it is counter-productive, because the goal of such free speech is a discussion leading to understanding of one another’s position”

    which is beautifully put. you can see it in macro and micro.

  472. technicolour

    15 Oct, 2013 - 9:20 pm

    still, shouty, sweary free speech is still free speech and, as such, relatively fine with me. as long as it’s not directed at one person. whereas someone using the cover of ‘free speech’ to push the same person in the teeth with it over and over again, with few other subjects of conversation, is not. Which is why I don’t regret losing that particular aspect of Habbakuk. I mean, if someone did that to someone else at your table in a pub, repeatedly, it would be crazy to expect everyone else in the pub to leave, rather than politely eject that one person.

  473. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    15 Oct, 2013 - 9:20 pm

    Thanks Tech. I don’t like to repeat myself, but I’ve written that notion using different words, too many times and i’m running out of linguistic jingo.

    AlcAnon; Howzit? I don’t care about encryption or anonymizers anymore. Let the chips fall; becoming a fatalist.

  474. TC, thats daily life. Nothing beautiful about it.

    Beauty comes through the refinement of self-knowledge through self-study, not through squabbles about politics.

  475. Thanks Alcanon.
    Unfortunately, while the avatar can be deleted, one can’t delete email addresses from gravatar. As far as I know.

    Thanks for the Greenpeace stuff, Technicolour. Cheered me up to think they are legit.

    [I've been staring at 3 + something = 8 for the past 4 minutes. I must need a cup of tea. Where's Suhayl anyway?]

  476. Maybe you are unaware, Fedup, but Technicolour and I have as much right to post here as you do. Whenever.

    However you don’t have the fucking right to go around being facetious and insult me as you go along. The fact that you see yourself as some kind of a lease holder and little cyber bourgeois, as an “older hands” somehow entitles you to be as horrible and as curt as possible, evidently.

    I am on record, and I state again there ought to be a mandatory course of hormone therapy that you should be undergoing. I feel sorry for Mr. Dreo, your neighbours, the supermarket cashiers, and anyone else who has the misfortune of coming across you.

    Your mindset is clearly shown for what it is; (And neither does attempting to suck up to Jon and/or Mary.) and in your avatar. “Relaxing” that you found it to be.

    Every fucker coming across Dreo gets it in the neck, sort of an equal opportunity harridan;

    I think we’ll probably manage without you, Trowbridge. Fingers crossed.

    =====

    Why do you believe that?

    A rhetorical question that is answered with the;

    Because I don’t, you know.

    There you have it then! Now that cleared up we can all join hands and sing along.

    ===

    Jon you are preaching to the choir there mate, it was not me who kicked off, despite the fact that you are pushing all of the blame my way. But I will not turn the other cheek regardless of however unchristian that may prove to be.

  477. technicolour

    15 Oct, 2013 - 9:49 pm

    “However you don’t have the fucking right to go around being facetious and insult me as you go along….I feel sorry for Mr. Dreo, your neighbours, the supermarket cashiers, and anyone else who has the misfortune of coming across you.”

    For goodness’ sake man, get a grip. Read your own words! (best tip one can give any writer, worth years of therapy) Dreoilin, aren’t you meant to be having a nice cuppa and reading this kindle comic classic?

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Three-Men-Boat-Nothing-Classics/dp/0141441216

    It’s great.

  478. TC: “as long as it’s not directed at one person. ”

    TC, you’re behind the curve like Jon. There may be some truth in what you say as it applies to last winter when Habbabkuk first appeared. And for obvious reasons related to her inane news-roll she may have been the easy, though also sloppy and rational target. Having moved on from that he was one of the sharpest critics and observers on these threads in recent months. Its more than a subtle point that even Jon fails to see, probably because he doesn’t wish to take responsibility for the initial period when he was hibernating. Jon woke up way after when Habby had toned down realising there were loads of other nincompoops here to fry. Anyway what was the worst he said to Mary?

    His fatal analogy was not dis-similar to the one that the Judge used when Rajat Gupta, ex-CEO of McKinsey was caught up in an insider-trading case. Gupta pleaded that he had given huge amounts to charity. The Judge responded that even if Mother Theresa had robbed a bank and then given huge amounts to charity, she would still be subject to charge and prosecuted.

    Your comparison to a social pub-table is utterly and completely false. Besides i thought you had agreed with Dreo’s remark last night re “dissidents, or maybe i misunderstood you. Anyway, i’m glad for the amount of support that has been shown towards Habbakuk on this support through the day.

    But if you want to continue your pub-setting example, what would they do with Passerby/Fedup? Why is it that only Craig’s blog embraces this abuse:

    https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&tab=nw#hl=en&q=ziofuckwits&safe=off

    All under Jon the moderator’s watch.

    The answer is obvious. Clue: if you are a rabid, obsessive, foul-mouthed Palestinian supporter here, you are secure. That means the moderator is unfit for the purpose of a truly international/global blog and just another of one of those myopic one-trick Palestinian ponies. Sooner or later that word will get out into the blogosphere to the detriment of its reach and appreciation. That’ll be sad for i don’t believe that is Craig’s worldview.

  479. Thanks, Tech. I’ll download it. :)

    Kindle has me ‘reading up a storm’. I’m almost single-handedly keeping Amazon in business, but I’ll have to worry about that later.

    I need to go out first and bring some cut flowers to the neighbours, who are terrified of me.

  480. ‘Dreoilin”s sanity, sense of justice, sense of humour and humanitarianism have enriched this board, as well as my own perspective, enormously. Even if they had not I would have objected to your bullying, indiscriminate and disproportionate attacks on another poster, Fedup.

    If you were not being quite so obviously preposterous, I’d suggest that you are not deleted – why bother, it will just happen again – but warned about your extreme behaviour towards another poster. Have no idea what Dreoilin thinks, but that would be my suggestion.

  481. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    15 Oct, 2013 - 10:13 pm

    There are two ways to go blind, Dre, and one of them involves ‘Kindle’. :)

  482. Ben is there any risk that the eunuch without a condom above can go blind? :-)

  483. On Media Lens a few minutes ago ….

    Exclusive: Glenn Greenwald Will Leave Guardian To Create New News Organization

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/exclusive-glenn-greenwald-will-leave-guardian-to-create-new

  484. Ben, Dre

    Of note is that gravatar not only knows the email addresses of all blog posters. They also knows every single post you have ever made with that email across all sites using gravatar. They also have the IP address you posted the entry from and the IP address of every single reader of gravatar enabled blogs and the specific pages they read. Valuable info to someone I would think.

    Here’s gravatar’s disclosure policy.

    http://automattic.com/privacy/

    Automattic also collects potentially personally-identifying information like Internet Protocol (IP) addresses for logged in users and for users leaving comments on WordPress.com blogs.

    …Automattic discloses potentially personally-identifying and personally-identifying information only in response to a subpoena, court order or other governmental request, or when Automattic believes in good faith that disclosure is reasonably necessary to protect the property or rights of Automattic, third parties or the public at large

  485. Pykrete: great news if true, thanks.

    AlcAnon: I’m with Ben. It feels as though it should be scary but, you know, bring it on. This whole being almost expected to be ‘anonymous’ lark (‘handles’, nicknames, blah) always felt v odd anyway.

  486. Ben,
    I’ve had glasses since I was four (and at four I had a black leather patch on one eye too). My only problem with reading recently has been the font size. My eyes were red and tired. But with Kindle I can increase font size as I wish. It’s great!

    ———————

    “Have no idea what Dreoilin thinks, but that would be my suggestion.”

    Thanks again, Tech. I should ignore him, really, and not engage. Like John G said, this morning, was it: ‘Take my own advice’.

    ———————-

    “Automattic discloses potentially personally-identifying and personally-identifying information only in response to a subpoena, court order or other governmental request”

    To hell with them. Never mind. I always assumed my IP address was easily found from this blog. And elsewhere.

  487. “Guest Column — Glenn Greenwald

    All the proof that you need that you cannot trust the mainstream media

    “The Perfect Epitaph for Establishment Journalism””

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/14/independent-epitaph-establishment-journalism/print

  488. The procedure is all too well honed and soon kicked in; Dero attacks and then retreats (she will be back later to insult some more). villageC whose history for moaning and attacking is a matter of record. Is joined by the den mother, who waxes lyrical about the ” Even if they had not I would have objected to your bullying, indiscriminate and disproportionate attacks on another poster, Fedup.

    Fucking pathetic,

    This is not sustained attack on this blog for having the audacity of carrying the “ziofuckwit” without deleting the posts, and banning the poster! This blog ought to be paying fealty to the ziofuckwits, and genuflect like the other “free speech” media and stop dead in its tracks any discussion/dissent about the shitty little strip of land. As well as issuing a “free to insult” card to all the fucking whiny zioufuckwits to go about insulting all and sundry. then they won’t be moaning about ; “All under Jon the moderator’s watch.” or telling him; Thanks for your immoderate suggestion, Jon. Now you can fuck off!

    The shite masters have no fucking shame, and carry on regardless.

    Indeed internet is not filled with these disinformation merchants to excuse the and justify the genocide in Palestine and facilitate the longevity of the venal, corrupt and ghastly fucking apartheid regime in zionistan.

    It is the apartheid zionistan that is the obscenity is going missing on the indignant ziofuckwits and their support network.

  489. “Glenn Greenwald Will Leave Guardian To Create New News Organization”

    Good for him. I always thought he was the kind of guy to “put his money where his mouth is”. I wish them all the luck in the world. I’ll certainly be a subscriber.

  490. It is hard to see a case for banning Habbakuk and not banning Fedup. Following Dreoilin’s advice, I think probably no-one should be banned, but I do think that a reasonable period of cooling off time would be a very good idea. Villager: my perspective is that Habbakuk started off as a potentially interesting breath of fresh air, but slowly became (and I’m not saying the attacks on him had nothing to do with it) increasingly obsessed until the point where his attacks on one poster and a couple of others were perhaps enjoyable for him, but not for anyone else in the virtual ‘room’ (hope that’s a better analogy than ‘pub’).

  491. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    15 Oct, 2013 - 10:55 pm

    Villager; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN1J5sMv28Q

    Dre; I should wear glasses (20 years ago had them; dumped them) but I manage with cheap reading glasses. My son (oldest) used to have something like 20/10 or some ridiculous number. I called him Hawkeye until he got hooked on online gaming. Now he wears glasses, so beware of any old computer monitors.

  492. “so beware of any old computer monitors.” — Ben

    Yes, they have an invisible flicker or something? Like TV. They’re certainly tiring.
    I’m trying to go offline earlier recently. I sleep better.

    I know a guy in Oz who uses cheap reading glasses. I think they work if what you need is simple magnification. But mine have two different prescriptions in the two lenses. So I have to get them made.

  493. ..and unlike dreoilin those posters were not seeking to engage, or question back, hence the calls for him to be banned. hmm.

    btw i have often blamed my ancient screen but a friend of mine says her new apple kills her eyes. perhaps it’s just age…

  494. Jemand said, on another thread:

    Jemand
    15 Oct, 2013 – 4:04 am
    I suppose it’s about time that I put my pseudonym on the list of those who think that Habbabkuk’s summary banning was unfair, unjustified and demonstrable of inconsistency on this blog. The amazingly regular vulgar, hostile and low value ‘contributions’ from the one or two people who comprise the Fedup/Passerby/Macky gang of little rascals indicate to me that it is politics and not tone that gets you into trouble here.

    If Jon could find a way (ie emotionally) of allowing Habbabkuk’s return and ‘rehabilitation’ while saving (Jon’s) face, I think the blog would benefit from his style of devil’s advocacy.

  495. If Jon could find a way (ie emotionally) of allowing Habbabkuk’s return and ‘rehabilitation’ while saving (Jon’s) face, I think the blog would benefit from his style of devil’s advocacy.

    Here is your orders lad, get on with it!

    The technique is so hasbara 101!

  496. Sofia Kibo Noh

    15 Oct, 2013 - 11:16 pm

    Ben, AlcAnon

    Yes, Gravatar or no, we may as well accept everyone’s identity can be cracked if enough computing power is thrown at it.

    But, the mind-boggling quantity of data being harvested requires awesome processing power.

    We know now that keyparts of this hardware spend much of the time switched off while the melted bits are replaced. I suppose it casts a whole new light on the notion of cooking up the intelligence.

    Then when someone like Edward Snowden embarrases them by telling the truth they throw more awesome power around and succeed only in entertaining the world.

    Let’s remember these are the same kind of geniuses who have tried over thirty times to kill Castro. It’s hard to parody these clowns since they do such a good job of it on their own.

    As the old Wathafeck saying goes, she who knows everything understands nothing.

  497. It’s nothing to do with saving Jon’s face. I don’t think it did Habbakuk any good. Who cares about ‘the blog’ more than about a person?

  498. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    15 Oct, 2013 - 11:21 pm

    Tech; Those old crt’s actually emit radiation of some import. My MacAir seems to have a mind of it’s own on screen brightness, and I have to manually increase from time to time. Its not the power saver doing it. Just not bright enough, and if you use it in a dark room with the only light coming from the screen, this is bad AIUI.

  499. “but not for anyone else in the virtual ‘room’ (hope that’s a better analogy than ‘pub’).”

    I and many others, Jemand most recent to add his name didn’t have a problem, though i did initially until i saw that the guy was actually challenging half-baked ‘ideas’ and talking sense.

    I admire the way he retained his dignity despite the massive amount of abuse hurled upon him under Free Willy Jon the mod’s ‘watch’.

    Unlike a pub table, this an open forum. If you attend, you’d better be open to ridicule and take the rough with the smooth. Hats off to Habbabkuk for not lowering himself to the imbeciles he gratuitously called the Eminences here. Those who got to wipe the floor for the only man who called the whole Syria ‘War’ and related cries of WW III a charade are the fools now resisting his return. As for Jon the Judge, he’s biassed and should simply resign. Meantime he has to live with his conscience and the Karma at play.

    Dreoilin and Glenn-uk are right — ban no one, not even the empty condom eunuch Fedup, not even Krishnamurky.

  500. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    15 Oct, 2013 - 11:27 pm

    “As the old Wathafeck saying goes, she who knows everything understands nothing.”

    Is that where Rumpole got ‘She, who must be obeyed”?

  501. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    15 Oct, 2013 - 11:30 pm

    Villager/Fedup.

    I think the appraisal of Jon’s performance should be contextual…….

    If no one is happy, he must be doing something right. Jon seems very balanced and earth-bound.

  502. Hi Sofia Kibo Noh,

    Glad to see you back and I listened to you. Thanks!

    As the old Wathafeck saying goes, she who knows everything understands nothing.

    Those Whatafeck are clever people.

    Have you noticed the full on diversion in the mejdia? They are throwing every bit of crap they can find, to cover up the all mighty fuckups and the plunder. Those great train robbers were amateurs compared to the fucking politicos and their sponsors. Why steal millions when you can get away with billions?

    What do you think of our newest Best Friends? Those Chinese by now have forgotten about the opium wars and we are all good pals now. Apparently our cupboard love towards the old Uncle Sam is on the wane.

  503. “…Is joined by the den mother, who waxes lyrical about the ” Even if they had not I would have objected to your bullying, indiscriminate and disproportionate attacks on another poster, Fedup. ”

    Fucking pathetic”

    whatever. I object to your bullying, indiscriminate and disproportionate attacks on another poster, Fedup. Not to the ‘ziofuckwits’ etc generally: your language, when not directed at a single person, rises to almost approproiate levels. You debase it by its overuse on a lone target.

    MJ: absolutely right about compensating for the lack of news from the occupied territories. Mary should of course keep posting those important reports. If someone were equally bothered about Chechnya I would say the same.

  504. A reminder of a recent appeal from Craig (4-Jul-2013):

    Will EVERYBODY please tackle the arguments commenters make, and not refer to their motives for making them – which you cannot know – or that people are paid, or their personality traits, or somebody else.

    What interests me is the arguments people put. I think most of the imputations made on all sides are probably inaccurate, but even if they were accurate they are irrelevant. A man or woman may be a one-eyed former contract killer with a cocaine habit in the pay of the state of Israel, but may still make an argument that is absolutely correct. Please address the argument, not the person. Posts which fail to do this will be deleted when seen.

    The advice was primarily targeted at the commenters, but unfortunately it seems that self-regulation isn’t working too well.

  505. Ben,

    Hubble has taken new images of Ison. They were taken on the 9th of October and are currently “embargoed”. That is you can tell they are there in the Hubble database but they are not available for download.

  506. “those who got to wipe the floor for the only man who called the whole Syria ‘War’ and related cries of WW III a charade”

    The UK parliament vote against bombing Syria was an incredibly narrow one and accompanied by shrieks of fury from government ministers who supported it. It led to consternation in the US and more time for the UN. It’s possible that it was set up in advance, although that would argue for a government as experienced and devious as one of our local councils, and it’s also possible that it wasn’t, and that the overwhelming hostility towards the idea from the people was a decisive factor in giving our MPs the courage to vote against it. Either way.

  507. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    15 Oct, 2013 - 11:49 pm

    ” Please address the argument, not the person.”

    Thanks. I hadn’t seen Craig’s comment. This is wise and I endorse. Allow me to ask; what would you do if the commentator requires a response with ceaseless nagging, in spite of one’s stated disinterest? I know the answer, but wish to hear it.

  508. whatever. I object to your bullying, indiscriminate and disproportionate attacks on another poster, Fedup.

    Still in the attack mode, and on goes the charade. Standing by in the wings only to come to fore into the ziofuckwit farrago, and carry the tail end, until the next bout of attacks begin. The threads are littered with this technique, so original and so unique!

  509. Jon. if you’re anything like me you’ll be looking at the posts of the past day or two and wondering what, if anything, is the point in continuing. The site has largely been taken over by people who can shout loudly and well, that’s about all. Well done for staying the course thus far.

  510. Haemoglobin: your suggestions, please.

  511. Fedup: no. Night all.

  512. Sofia Kibo Noh

    16 Oct, 2013 - 12:08 am

    Pykerite. 10 24pm
    Someone. 10 41pm

    Thanks for the good news.

    Glen Greenwald writes about “…the lethal power-subservient pathologies plaguing establishment journalism.”

    Plenty of power-subservient pathology on display on this thread though today. Would I be a foaming conspiracy theorist if I asked whether this pattern was part of the same dynamic?

    All those who get so upset that this blog gives regular exposure to the criminality of the state of Israel might ask themselves why the corporate media avoid these stories. It seems an increasing slice of humanity seems well able to answer this question and to seek to inform themselves elsewhere.

    The US is busy imploding. Remember how the old Soviet Union suddenly wasn’t there anymore.

    Who will arm and fight wars for Israel in the future?

    Maybe it’s time to start making peace.

    Fedup.

    Thanks.

    “Have you noticed the full on diversion in the mejdia?

    Yes.

    It reminds me of school when the teacher gets cross ‘cos everyone’s stopped listening to her droning on about differential equations and are looking out of the window watching the flames coming out of the Headmistress’s office.

    Great to see so many alternative sources of info these days and looking forward to Glenn Greenwald’s new offering.

  513. “It reminds me of school when the teacher gets cross ‘cos everyone’s stopped listening to her droning on about differential equations and are looking out of the window watching the flames coming out of the Headmistress’s office.”

    Nice.

  514. “your suggestions, please.”

    Well i’ll give you mine.

    This ‘debate’ we’re having now on moderation, should’ve been initiated and facilitated by Jon weeks ago while the threads were languishing to 17 pages and Craig in Ghana for 25 days straight.

    But no, despite the writing on the wall, zero initiative by Jon whose only defence is i’m waiting for instructions from Craig. In the real world if i had an assistant who couldn’t get a proposal together based on views from constituents and present it to me cohesively and well-crafted, i woud’ve fired him. But Jon’s only whimper is that he doesn’t get paid, but that is not a defence for lack of initiative. If he doesn’t have it in him, unwilling or incapable, he should resign. A little anarchy here for a bit could not possibly drag this blog down any further. He could stick to the back-end techie work if he wishes to do Craig a favour.

    Alternatively, its never too late. He should reinstitute all “banned” folk and hold this debate and in the meantime continue to snip selectively, particularly objectionable posts, until a code is considered. Craig would obviously have the right to veto.

    Whats difficult about it?

  515. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    16 Oct, 2013 - 12:20 am

    AA; Haven’t seen much on ISON the last couple days. What’s your take on the reductio ad absurdem ?

  516. Sofia Kibo Noh

    16 Oct, 2013 - 12:21 am

    Ben.

    “Is that where Rumpole got ‘She, who must be obeyed”?

    It’s a little know fact that John Mortimer was in reality the non de plume of the great Wathafeck sage Ahnevrsedvat who spent some time observing the comical customs of the British in order better to understand the Wathsfeckian Dyspraxic Monkey, whose spectacularly inept mating displays provide such a reliable cure for depression.

    Regarding the suppressive habits of Power he had this to say, “I suppose that writers should, in a way, feel flattered by the censorship laws. They show a primitive fear and dread at the fearfull magic of print.”

    Yes, the Wathafeck sure understand primitive cultures.

  517. Craig would obviously have the right to veto.

    There you go, under the new settlement rules Craig has a right!

    There again that can change any time soon, and his right may only be safe until the time that he was in Ghana, after which time the settlers can tell him who he should ban and who he should unban, after all this is not a blog but some sort of a fucking hasbara central and Craig should know better!

    a rabid, obsessive, foul-mouthed Palestinian supporter here, you are secure. That means the moderator is unfit for the purpose of a truly international/global blog and just another of one of those myopic one-trick Palestinian ponies. Sooner or later that word will get out into the blogosphere to the detriment of its reach and appreciation. That’ll be sad for i don’t believe that is Craig’s worldview.

    They settle there, they settle here, they fucking settle everywhere! Where in the bible the cyberspace was fucking given away again? Sure as fuck we will be soon presented with some lake titicaca scrolls, that are accidentally discovered and tell how Abraham promised and gave away the cyber space too.

  518. Fedup, with the best will in the world, can you explain why you could not be described as ‘a foul mouthed Palestinian supporter’? I disagree with the ‘rabid and obsessive’ having engaged with you on several other subjects in previous, momentarily happier times, and learnt something as a result, I seem to remember.

  519. ‘foul mouthed’ sounds really silly, actually. i can quite see why you could not be polite when talking about atrocities. i just disagree with bullying and aggression and snarking and nastiness on general principle.

  520. Ben,

    Assuming you mean ISON and not the blog, the semi-official story at the moment is that the academics who tasked the Hubble images were pissed of that the raw images from the last Hubble shots were downloaded and posted by amateurs before they even had their own “official” processed versions out. So they’ve solved that problem by just embargoing the latest raw data until they release it officially.

    Could be any day now. Could be weeks. Who knows. NASA database also just finally updated with post Mars orbit updates – no major changes.

  521. Full Definition of RABID

    1
    a : extremely violent : furious
    b : going to extreme lengths in expressing or pursuing a feeling, interest, or opinion
    ____________________

    ob·ses·sive adjective \äb-ˈse-siv, əb-\
    : thinking about something or someone too much or in a way that is not normal : having an obsession : showing or relating to an obsession
    ___________________

    TC please expound.

  522. “‘foul mouthed’ sounds really silly, actually. i can quite see why you could not be polite when talking about atrocities.”

    And therefore calling you, habby and me a cunt.

    Beware the Stockholm Syndrome!!!

  523. And would the Quran tell you, you Fuckedup eunuch, that this part of your jihad?

  524. I dae you tp post in the same language under Craig’s nose you empty condom shrinking coward.

  525. dare

  526. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    16 Oct, 2013 - 1:13 am

    “Assuming you mean ISON and not the blog” :)

    So, the USG pissing contest does little to quell Rome’s burning? Who was it said, “May you live in interesting times”? Must have been an asshole.

  527. Sofia Kibo Noh

    16 Oct, 2013 - 1:42 am

    Ben.

    That’s shocking.

    Are you sure that the combined pissing efforts of the United States Government, Unix Support Group, Utrecht School of Governance (Netherlands), UNIX Security Guards (hacker group), Universal Security Group (Microsoft), Unión Solidarista Guatemalteca (Guatemalan Solidarity Union), Universities of Shady Grove (Maryland), l’Union Socialiste de Gabonaise (Gabonese Socialist Union; political party), Utilities Solutions Group, Unified Security Gateway, University System of Georgia,United States Gypsum, Ulysses S. Grant, Undergraduate Student Government, as well as Ultimate Sex Gods are having no effect?

    Well I reckon more piss isn’t the solution then.

  528. Dreoilin, re “disruption” – My thoughts exactly.

  529. Villager, thanks for reposting. The summary banning of Habbabkuk viz-a-viz the kid-glove treatment of Fedup-Passerby will surely become a migraine for Jon.

    I still don’t understand what *exactly* triggered it — haven’t read the exchange leading up to the banning as I was cutting my toe-nails at the time.

    But I do recall that there was some extraordinary objection to the use of the word “sodomised” and suspect that there is something in that word that resonated painfully for our overworked, unpaid and underappreciated moderator.

    I was under the impression, these gay-friendly days, that sodomy between males is a natural, healthy expression of the most beautiful kind of emotion that can ever exist in the universe – love.

    Why anyone would therefore object to the use of that word is as puzzling to me as objecting to the word “sex”. Although, there does seem to be some stigma attached to the idea of male heterosexual “sex” due to it now being understood as a fundamentally political act of violence against women – and clearly having nothing to do with ‘love’ nor the side effect of human reproduction. And Jon has displayed some discomfiture whenever I have employed “sex-themed” literary devices (as if that were a novelty in this sex-crazed era).

    So I am still at a loss to understand what really happened. Any ideas?

  530. @ Dreoilin

    Japan gives typhoons numbers, not names.

    Japanese kids are fine. The truth? Who knows?

    “Tokyo Olympic games, 2020!” they say

    “Catch 22,” I say.

    Nobody has any clue what to do [and I mean really nobody, in- or outside Japan] and although we hear references to Chernobyl, there is no such proper comparison to begin with; the Soviet era nuclear plant was relatively new [about 7 years] and the GE built Fukushima plant has been at it for 40 years. Spent fuel rods have been stored a few floors up…

    Tokyo has to be [and will be] hit by a massive earthquake, one that is [or has been] overdue for years… Can you imagine the total chaos if that happens in 2020?

    @ James

    You sound like a reasonable individual. I hope you believe in fairness. I hope you also believe that Apartheid is something very wrong, regardless where it rears its ugly head. In its current form, antisemitism is an Apartheid word, because it excludes a huge segment of Semites. I think it would therefore be fair to say, ‘anti/pro Israel/i, Jew/s, Palestine/Palestinian/s, Arab/s, etc.’

    @ Rouge

    Q: And others, who criticise, insult and disrupt, and, though having the same recourse as all of us to information on injustices in the world, rarely offer their findings, seeming rather to prefer to shut down discourse and to obscure the indefensible.

    R: Yes, that phenomenon makes me wonder how someone can claim to defend open discourse while wilfully derailing ongoing discussions.
    I take my cues [or try to take my cues] from the universe, because it has been around that much longer than I have [or ever will be]. It tells me that energy is a result/byproduct from/of opposite forces. This means that there is nothing wrong with having opposite opinions. Thus, those who purposefully want to shut out or shout down opposite views are acting against universal ground rules/blueprints.

    @ Ben,

    Q: If no one is happy, he must be doing something right. Jon seems very balanced and earth-bound.

    R: My sentiments exactly, sir.

    @ Technicolour,

    Q: You debase it by its overuse on a lone target.

    R: It would be nice if this site came equipped with an ‘ignore button’ next to a forum member’s name so you could click it and not have to scroll down to the next message.

    Is it possible to, simultaneously, be a defender of free speech while demanding for others to be ‘shut up or banned?’ – [not referring to you in any way, this is a general observation]. Freedom of speech comes with a price tag…, and I’m willing to pay it [aka let people rant on].

  531. @ Jemand,

    Habbakuk suggested that a particular forum member had to be abused as a child [but the original post has been deleted, so I can't recite it word for word].

    “Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)- 14 Sep, 2013 – 7:53 pm

    [Mod: crosses the line from ordinary abuse to something extraordinarily unpleasant, deleted]

    +

    Jon

    15 Sep, 2013 – 12:36 am

    Oh dear. I make the suggestion that I’m finding it difficult to moderate, and then the really unpleasant stuff starts (e.g. suggesting that one’s debating opponent was raped as a child). With a mixture of relief and sadness, I’ve added Habbabkuk’s IP to the ban list.

    I really did think that H could be persuaded to discourse with civility – he/she clearly has the intelligence for it. Thus, in some sense, I count banning him/her as something of a failure.

    I appreciate this will disappoint a few people who believe that we should have a total free-for-all here. For anyone in that category, please appeal to Craig directly via the contact form (I will inform him separately anyway). Thanks.”

    I hope you agree with the notion that what adults do [or teenagers over a certain age] on acts of mutual consent is their business and not mine. However, do we adults not have a universal duty to protect children [regardless what, where, who, how and why]?

    As Habbakuk came across as a rather intelligent person, it didn’t make any sense [to me] why he would stoop so low. Arrogance isn’t a substitute for intelligence, obviously.

    As a defender of free speech I’ve asked if Jon would reconsider his stance [after a while], but he has to run this site, not you or I.

    @ Jon,

    Sorry about the misplaced / in previous reply.

  532. BrianFujisan

    16 Oct, 2013 - 6:35 am

    whatever. I object to your bullying, indiscriminate and disproportionate attacks on another poster, Fedup..

    FALSE…In the insinuated sense…that Fedup picks on posters in the same way Mary was targeted.

    And you want the Poison Back….It never Left Did it… You. And. Village Child… Jemand Kicks in..All in a Row..Dreoilin, All in a row… a few bits of Politics… to tame the Mod… TO TAME THE MOD….Sorry Jon, but thats whats going down here.

  533. BrianFujisan

    16 Oct, 2013 - 6:53 am

    Ecactly Daniel

    Well said…

    lets meet humans….

    I really did think that H could be persuaded to discourse with civility – he/she clearly has the intelligence for it. Thus, in some sense, I count banning him/her as something of a failure….

    Now then… Ju Know what… the ONLY people who see problems with this shit Are Paid Trolls.. otherwise i would use the TRUTH …PAID ZioFuckwits

  534. Daniel Rich, thanks. In amongst that flurry of words there appears to be a partial explanation. Maybe it wasn’t the S-word afterall, but the implication of r@pe in juxtaposition to the word ‘child’.

    Rude imagery, to be sure, but no less rude than a similar comment by me directed at the indefatiguably stupid Fedup-Passerby. My comment stood (maybe still does), so I’m guessing that the offending passage was not sufficiently offensive by itself to have justified Habbabkuk’s banning. Which then suggests that our comments can individually pass moderation but, in aggregate, still result in our unceremonious banning.

    What irks me is that there are rules at play that the mods won’t formalise for the purpose of clarification and self-regulation. That runs counter to conventional wisdom and popular notions of fair play. But we’ve had this conversation before, all to no avail.

  535. Brian, are you a member of the VIP clique here who enjoy the privilege of protection from criticism while flinging mud at others?

  536. Wreckers here last night and overnight en masse to such an extent that people are deterred from visiting or commenting. That is the intention presumably and Craig’s blog, once a civilized meeting place for decent minded people, goes down.

    Wreckers in the US Congress too. America might well go down, along with the dollar, taking all of us in its wake. China is waiting in the wings. Beware Tea Partygoers and Repuglicans. Take care of your $13 trillion debt, stop your war machine in its tracks and behave like human beings.

    Wreckers here too in the fascist leaning government. No beds for mental patients. No decent care for the frail and elderly. No homes for the homeless and no food for the hungry unless there is a food bank nearby. Meanwhile we have just seen that display of pure greed enacted on the stock exchange and a big farrago being built up by the pocket pols on Plebgate which is yet another distraction.

    I see all of this from the perspective of learning last night from a friend of 30 years’ standing, whose husband received a diagnosis of Parkinson’s Disease earlier in the year, that she has been diagnosed with Motor Neurone Disease. She is already lame on one leg and is using a stick. She is having difficulty in speaking, eating and swallowing and there has been a rapid onset of these symptoms. Surrey community health services, now privatised, are looking into her case to see what help can be provided in the home! Don’t hold your breath my dear friend. Your friends will come to the rescue.

    Might make you think on dear trolls.

    Off out for the day to breathe some clean air.

  537. I am taking a holiday from commenting on this blog. Principally because the comments now consist largely of bickering, substantive comment is rare, and there is absolutely no bloody point.

    I think the comments section has lost any point it may once have had, and the co-ordinated attempts by those with a very different agenda to Craig’s, to urge a Daily Mail mindset on the rest of us, have resulted in the chaos we now see. Well done them. I find them an incentive to more direct action, and others may agree that expressing your thoughts on a blog may not be the best way to get things done and pissants removed from power. Whatever: nice guys*, it’s been great knowing you, and Dacre’s shills, or whatever you are, take a flying fuck.

    *even Fred
    Bye.

  538. What we have here is a forum disappearing up it’s own arsehole.

    The reason is plain, the focus of attention has been turned inwards at each other instead of outwards at the events of the world, the usual tactic of trolls and control freaks, this is why I have a zero tolerance when it comes to personal attacks.

    While the blog has a policy of supporting those who only ever post here to snipe at others, in the name of freedom of speech, yet penalises those who stand up to the bullies it hasn’t much chance.

  539. Gaia Hepburn

    16 Oct, 2013 - 9:50 am

    Thank you for suppressing and banning the persistent, disruptive, juvenile trolls.
    Gaia.

  540. “Thank you for suppressing and banning the persistent, disruptive, juvenile trolls.”

    I second that request.

  541. This blog has been ruined (by pro-zionist “trolls”) which has prevented me engaging.

    Some may consider this a success…

    Jon I don’t envy you but thought I would throw in my 2 pennies worth.

  542. Sofia Kibo Noh

    16 Oct, 2013 - 10:44 am

    Mary. 8 34am

    I’m sorry to her about your friends’ troubles. Multiply it by hundreds of thousands and you’ll get the extent of the havoc being caused by the misery machine and its servants.

    Enjoy your day under the sky and return to refreshed and more persistent than ever..

    As for the army of incompetents patrolling the blogosphere. Yes maybe they put some people off visiting but I have the feeling now they only convince themselves and I’m not even sure about that. On the positive side, they do flag the crucial issues and clearly show that they have few rational reasons to offer for the obscenities they seek to shield.

    I’ll miss your tireless digging.

    Komodo. 8 41am

    “…there is absolutely no bloody point…”

    When I burst into her tree-house in floods of disconsolate tears Wassamadda the healer-woman told me your problem is you’re just tired and hungry……nothing a good leg of tricyclist and a lazy day in the sun wont cure. And she says your comments are a good part of the point ‘cos they all chip away at the fairytales and she enjoys them anyway.

    I’m off too for a while ‘cos I’ve got a life to live in the forest but I’ll rest assured that the conversations Craig Murray sparks off here are leaking into the world and going feral. It’ll take more than an army of trolls to put them back in the bottle.

    Experience the sweetness of the only democracy in the Middle East here,

    http://electronicintifada.net/content/video-israeli-crowd-cheers-africans-called-slaves/12833

  543. I think my favourite poster here is Mary. Her wisdom, humour and intelligence puts all the other contributions in the shade. Keep posting Mary, and ignore all the trolls! Some of us appreciate your presence. Thanks.

  544. @Komodo ‘I am taking a holiday from commenting on this blog. Principally because the comments now consist largely of bickering, substantive comment is rare…’

    Yes, I took a holiday a while ago for largely the same reasons. But I put some of the blame on Craig’s shoulders. Maybe I’m saying the unsayable here but I have felt for a while now that he doesn’t care about the comments section. I remember him saying once that the viewing stats show hardly any of the visitors to the blog read the comments, and I suspect he acts accordingly. There is (or was) a dedicated and loyal following here but I don’t think that loyalty has been appreciated or supported. People are always on Jon’s case but it seems evident from his comments that he is not being fairly treated by Craig. Jon says he has made repeated attempts to get a response from Craig on moderation issues wihtout success. Huh? Craig has a blog with an active and loyal following, and a guy who works hard, without remuneration, to handle the technical side of things, and Craig won’t answer his emails? I think this is basic blog courtesy we are talking about here. If it’s too much trouble, then turn the comments off.

    My ten cents.

  545. Very interesting comment, KingofWelshNoir. The very same view has been expressed by a member of my own family.

  546. KOWN

    well said mate.

    Craig would do well to remember his “The Al-Hilli Conundrum” post:

    My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.

  547. Daniel Rich

    “Nobody has any clue what to do [and I mean really nobody, in- or outside Japan] and although we hear references to Chernobyl, there is no such proper comparison to begin with; the Soviet era nuclear plant was relatively new [about 7 years] and the GE built Fukushima plant has been at it for 40 years. Spent fuel rods have been stored a few floors up…”

    And there is an additional problem now — morale of the workers who are supposed to be doing ‘clean-up’

    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/oct/15/fukushima-nuclear-power-plant-cleanup

    “decommissioning operation that is expected to last 40 years”

  548. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (Unleaded Version)
    16 Oct, 2013 – 1:13 am

    Who was it said, “May you live in interesting times”? Must have been an asshole.

    Ben, it is said that “May you live in interesting times” is a Chinese curse. (Though its origins are disputed.)

    I had bookmarked a site that I thought you would find interesting, and was waiting for a suitable discourse in which to post it, but we seem to have come a long way from music, so I’ll post it now. Villager would also find this stuff interesting, I’m sure.

    http://www.truthcontest.com/entries/the-present-universal-truth/beatles.html

    Mary
    16 Oct, 2013 – 8:34 am

    “I see all of this from the perspective of learning last night from a friend of 30 years’ standing, whose husband received a diagnosis of Parkinson’s Disease earlier in the year, that she has been diagnosed with Motor Neurone Disease.”

    I’m interested in herbalism and have lately been looking at some amazing findings on the benefits of cannabis in disease.

    Rick Simpson has been working with cannabis oil. Though this requires a pound of flower buds to make a course of treatment, so would be expensive and difficult to buy.

    http://www.simpson-oil.com/

    But, perhaps even more surprising has been the findings of those working with raw cannabis juice, which is made from the fan leaves of the plant rather than the flower buds and has no psychoactivity. These fan leaves are thrown away by the bagfull by those growing for recreational purposes.

    The Power of RAW Cannabis -
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qgEP9FdIzT8

    also -
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DchOfBeDypg

    Though it is probably illegal to encourage cultivation, I should tell you that a google search on Attitude Seedbank will provide details of pretty well every seed available; and that for growing indoors, you only have to visit one of the hydroponics shops in most districts, and ask the staff, to find out all you need to know.

    It is ludicrous that in the US many states allow medical marijuana to benefit people with the problems suffered by your friends, whilst here in the UK… same old, same old.

  549. NSA “harvesting” electronic address books and contact lists

    https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/10/16/surv-o16.html

  550. “I think my favourite poster here is Mary. Her wisdom, humour and intelligence puts all the other contributions in the shade. Keep posting Mary, and ignore all the trolls! Some of us appreciate your presence. Thanks.”

    Cut and paste is wisdom?

    Sarcastic sneering at establishment figures is humour?

    Zero political analysis is intelligence?

    Hilarious! Mary, you really have to stop posting fan mail under other names.

  551. Mary: sorry to hear about your friend. I know nothing about MND, but I do know quite a lot about Parkinsons.

    One thing your friend’s husband could try is to get tested for the presence of Helicobacter pylori; a common stomach infection. It has been associated with Parkinsons. My relative tested positive; took the antibiotic treatment to eradicate it and saw a significant improvement in symptoms?

  552. For the return of Habba and Free Speech

    16 Oct, 2013 - 1:54 pm

    Don’t worry I (and others) shall be back when there are some arguments to engage with – in the meantime the lovers of censorship and worse can just indulge in their usual games.

  553. This is passed as “contribution”

    And would the Quran tell you, you Fuckedup eunuch, that this part of your jihad?

    The above, along with a gang of certain other “contributors” who pile in on Fedup, and then end up espousing complaints about “bullying”! ?This conduct is an ll too telling traits of the the psychological make up of the bully that cannot tolerate/entertain/envisage anyone standing up to them. That is the underlying dysfunction that this blog has come to suffer from.

    The notions of “free speech” and “liberal values” applied without the contextualisation of the human rights of others is an illiberal act in suppression of the freedom of expression of the other contributors whom are taking flight one after another. What is any value of the above “contribution” and the cohorts of the ilk of the ziofuckwits that have been blighting the comments section?

    BrianFujisan I agree with your analysis, the operation is to tame the Moderator, and it has succeeded in allowing the comment section to fall victim to the orchestrated campaign of disinformation and suppression of facts and truths. Fact that Fedup is ganged up on by at least seven “contributors”, as the constant torrents of abuse/snarling/derision directed at him in evidence and clear for all to see, which is then whitewashed/projected as charges of “bullying” is a patently obvious ploy and tried and tested method of the bullying and nastiness towards him.

    Sadly this is reflective of our democracy too, this is how UK has been conquered and sent down the tubes, through the not so different tactics of the same operatives with a more direct access to the levers of power.

    The above “contribution” if it were to be directed at a “Jew” the cries of anti this and that would have been deafening, as it stands it is an accepted and tolerated part of being in the present day UK to heap derision and humiliation upon Muslims.

    This comment section is only too reflective of our current arrangements in the wider society, truly shocking and singular failure of inclusiveness and tolerance. The fact is our politics have been hijacked, and our values debased and these sacrifices have been to accommodate and appease the crazed ziofuckwits, in their declared war on the quarter of the inhabitants of this planet.

    It is Sad to see most of the contributors are taking flight while the comment sections is saddled with the culprits who came here to disrupt and suppress, as the evidence clearly proves.

  554. At least 9 trolls,in tag team mode,for nearly a year to attempt to disrupt this blog.

    Pathetic.

    Hasbara boot boys clear for all to see.Cant imagine they’re winning hearts and minds with their mission,more likely revealing themselves as the sinister bullies that they are.Their methods of gang-stalking and goon squad dynamics wholly in keeping with the fake War On Terror’s culture of intimidation,not so subtle psychological attacks and idiotic posturing.

    Today the blogs,tomorrow our front doors at 4am probably.

    With boots on,no doubt.

  555. Anyone who has learned from others here and there and holds it lovingly in their heart will value their nights when people are asleep, their days when people are given to excess, their grief when people are joyful, their weeping when people laugh, their silence when people chatter and their humility when people are arrogant.

    In other words every moment of life will be precious to them, and they may therefore be ‘gentle’, never harsh nor quarrelsome, nor one who makes a clamour in the market nor one who is quick to anger’.

    Anon.

  556. Heh, so here we are, in another discussion about moderation, freedom of speech, and so forth. I appreciate why it is necessary – our lack of policy means that the few who don’t care for ordinary social etiquette (insults, swearing, sneering, spite directed at others present) don’t know what they are permitted to “get away” with. Lines are frequently tested that would, in ordinary life, end quickly with a bloody nose and a call to the police.

    Personally – and I am sure I’ve said it before – I don’t find this a great way to engage with any internet board. There are several posters here who have plenty of productive input to offer, and are able to absorb mild offence whilst giving none in return. I salute those people as the bedrock of good discussion, and wish them all the best. There are too many of them to name.

    The minority who spoil it for everyone seem to be unable to conduct themselves in a reasonable and mature fashion, and every bout of negativity they cause seems to persist like a cloud for a few days, preventing any sustained and interesting exchange. If we could nip it in the bud, I am confident that we would bounce back to productive conversations in short order, but without guidelines to make this possible, it’s not going to happen.

    I am certainly intrigued as to why there are people actively wishing to inflict emotional hurt upon others, and witnessing it all has made for a fascinating study of the human condition. Psychology – of a very amateur form – is one of my side interests. But I do not subscribe, in the main, to the idea that we have much in the way of paid disruption here; I think the people who have been engaging in this behaviour persistently are quite willing to do it for free. This is sad (both for themselves and for the group) but how much people can be blamed for the shaping of their own character is a complex and fascinating discussion that veers greatly from the points I am making.

    As I have said in the past, I’ve had a greater visibility here as a moderator than I would have wished, but given the circumstances I think it has been unavoidable. Moderation needs to tread a line between accountability and invisibility, and we don’t really have the tools to do it, never mind directions from the boss to make it all happen.

    So, on Monday I let Craig know that I will be stepping away from moderation for the time being. This means that it is not feasible for any remaining bans to stay in place, so I hope that if Habbabkuk and Krishamurky resume posting, old emnities can be forgotten about, or at least reduce in intensity. Craig and I did start an email conversation about Habbabkuk’s ban, but I am left without an answer to my last one, again.

    I understand that my time as moderator will have delighted some people and enraged others. I make peace with all in the latter category – even Villager hitting me over the head with various placards! – as life is too short. Hopefully any lingering frustrations can now be laid to rest, and we’ll see if the comments section can resume a new life of sorts without moderation. I have asked Craig to appoint a new person, which I think might be expedited if we get the malicious free-for-all that I am resignedly expecting.

    For those of a sensitive disposition, I am inclined to recommend that you check how you feel periodically, if you continue to post. Step away from the blog frequently, and do not ever regard it as important to keep on contributing. We are all in need of the feeling of social inclusion, and moving away from a community – even an electronic one – can be jarring. I’ve seen all manner of great upsets here, spilling out into ordinary life – and wish it upon no-one.

    Anyway, peace and good wishes to all. I expect I’ll continue to write in an Ordinary Joe capacity. Meantime, I’ll be setting up an eBay business selling virtual Kevlar jackets – half price introductory offer!

  557. Still going to come here for the links, as this is a unique group. Hardly notice the statist meta nyah-nyah-nyah anymore, it’s white noise. In return, when next I get some nice SCI I’ll put it up here (come on, when did Snowden ever say he acted alone?), keep the Foreign-Service pederasts on their twinkle-toes.

  558. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    16 Oct, 2013 - 4:01 pm

    Rouge; Thanks for the link on Fabfour lyrics.

    Ever heard of Green Dragon? Easiest extraction is with alcohol. Take a one quart Mason Jar, fill with flake and stems from harvest (use buds if you want but grind it) and fill with Bacardi 151. Let sit for two-three weeks, shaking occasionally. Enjoy.

  559. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    16 Oct, 2013 - 4:03 pm

    Jon; Don’t become a stranger.

  560. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    16 Oct, 2013 - 4:08 pm

    I will once again support Jon’s remedy for anarchy cooks. Ignore the knee-jerk impulse to respond.

  561. Sorry to see you go, Jon, but I don’t blame you – you’ve been in an impossible situation. Thanks for all you’ve done, and I’m glad we’ll still hear from you in ‘Ordinary Joe’ mode.

    To those of you who haven’t got the self-restraint or sense to stop engaging with the deliberately disruptive posters, nothing I can say will stop you, so carry on but don’t kid yourselves that you’re not part of the problem.

  562. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    16 Oct, 2013 - 4:21 pm

    http://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/10/15-8

    “At our dinner with Ed Snowden, Coleen Rowley reminded him that his willingness to expose injustice fit in with a patriotic tradition modeled by Founders like Benjamin Franklin even before the American Revolution.

    Coleen recounted how Benjamin Franklin got himself in deep trouble in 1773, when he acquired and released confidential letters from the British governor of Massachusetts to the Crown showing that the colonial authorities did not think the American colonists should enjoy the same rights as British citizens in England. Franklin was fired from his post as Postmaster General and called a traitor and every other name in the book – many of them the same epithets hurled at Snowden.”

  563. So Jon’s been driven off. First Clark, them Jon. Next Craig?

    Entirely as a test and not in any way authorised by Craig Murray, I’ve setup a test forum on an Amazon cloud server running in the free tier on a free .tk domain just to show what can be done easily. Squonk was just a handy short and available tk domain I grabbed.

    Guest posts are currently enabled so you don’t need to register (although you can if you want). I don’t plan on keeping this running for any length of time and perhaps nobody will visit it at all, but an official authorised forum in addition to the main blog could be setup in minutes on craigmurray.org.uk if it was thought to be useful.

    Forum at http://squonk.tk/phBB3/viewforum.php?f=3

    Note: Your IP addresses will appear in the server logs which I can obviously see so if you are worried about that then please don’t visit. I can also see email addresses if you register with a real one but that is currently not required.

    I really don’t know whether an attached forum would ultimately improve things or not. Can’t see how it could make it worse though! Any more thoughts?

    Unauthorised Chat forum at http://squonk.tk/phBB3/viewforum.php?f=3

  564. For the return of Habba and Free Speech

    16 Oct, 2013 - 4:52 pm

    “keep the Foreign-Service pederasts on their twinkle-toes”

    First comment after Jon’s parting speech – and not from one of the “Hasbara tag team” please note

  565. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    16 Oct, 2013 - 4:55 pm

    Today’s suspicious observers….http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQRAVKorJ9A&feature=c4-overview&list=UUTiL1q9YbrVam5nP2xzFTWQ

    Interesting planetary alignment with ISON.

    AA; What’s up?

  566. “Jon seems very balanced and earth-bound.”

    I concur with Ben’s remark, Jon. I cannot imagine anyone doing a better job.

    @Ben,

    No, never heard of Green Dragon; sounds interesting. When in Spain, though, I do enjoy the Green Fairy.

  567. A Node, arbitration has always been the last recourse before the teeth and fur fly. However, to tar the aggressor and the grieved with the same brush is rather unfair.

    Change is difficult, change can only come form confronting the old order, and fighting the status quo, and upsetting the apple-cart. To expect silence and tacit acceptance of aggression in the name of civility, only perpetuates the status quo. As reflected and stated;

    Don’t worry I (and others) shall be back when there are some arguments to engage with – in the meantime the lovers of censorship and worse can just indulge in their usual games.

    This kind of threats with menaces, ought not be taken lightly. If the notion is a free for all, then the same aggression can be meted out towards the aggressors, and as in the game theory, sooner than later the opponents will be calling it a day and disappear into the crevices they had emerged from.

    However to hamstring the opponents by extending an easy get of the jail card to the aggressors only perpetuates the rampant aggression further. Jon himself is on record; “in ordinary life, end quickly with a bloody nose and a call to the police”. Fact is most of ziofuckwits in residence probably would run a mile on the sight of some of the people they have been so viciously attacking. I speak from experience, having seen the jeering and sneering ziofuckwits heckling from the audience, only to quickly disappear, soon as a member of the audience approaches these to clarify the boundaries of good conduct.

    To expect the inane and one-sided tolerance to be the normative behaviour, is perhaps not a desirable or suitable outcome. Further, to start setting up guidelines and procedures highlights the failure of the body which has to resort to such measures to promote harmony, and good conduct.

    One of the reasons I enjoy coming here, is the simple fact that other places have become the stumping grounds of the mediocrity that are paying fealty to the status quo. Simply put ziofuckwits have coerced, cajoled, and bribed their way into suppressing the opponents, and dissidents.

    Why do you think the insistence to reinstate a banned individual, has become a topic in itself? This is to tame the Moderator/blog into submission, and distort it into the phony reality/unreality so prevalent across the other media. As it has been reflected by BrianFujisan.

    As Jives has gone on record; Today the blogs,tomorrow our front doors at 4am probably. The sinister forces stalking this blog are all too real, and are all too ready to do whatever it takes to keep their privileged perks, and position. Jon has failed to see this as he goes on to state; we have much in the way of paid disruption here.

    Fact is the body of lies and the piles of dead Palestinians cannot be hidden without the full integration of the forces of reaction and tyranny. Jives is correct and to think those calling at our doors at 4am are just doing it for kicks is one step too far into Fantasia.

    Finally it is worth remembering what Lucky8 says; “keep the Foreign-Service pederasts on their twinkle-toes.” this is why the shameless mercenary gang of the ziofuckwits have been targeting this blog.

  568. For the return of Habba and Free Speech

    16 Oct, 2013 - 5:17 pm

    “I speak from experience, having seen the jeering and sneering ziofuckwits heckling from the audience, only to quickly disappear, soon as a member of the audience approaches these to clarify the boundaries of good conduct.”

    This is a euphemism for threatening them with physical violence I presume.

    “Today the blogs, tomorrow our front doors at 4am probably.”

    But that is the norm in the States you favour.

    “Jon has failed to see this as he goes on to state; we have much in the way of paid disruption here.”

    You missed out the bit beforehand “But I do not subscribe, in the main, to the idea”
    - though of course inversion of meaning is ok for those who believe the ends justify the means isn’t it.

    Also worth noting that we are now in effect accused of being pederasts – which is of course very similar to the accusation for which Habbakkuk was banned and which you and your friends were all too keen to support. Put then again I suppose hypocrisy can be justified within your warped value system.

  569. Ben,

    I often watch the daily suspiciosobserver videos and they are very informative. I do think he has his own pet theories though which he mixes in with accepted scientific knowledge. But don’t we all :-)

    He certainly seems absolutely convinced NASA/TPTB are editing some downlinks especially from SOHO. He might be right or it might be just due to a long-term antenna pointing problem with SOHO. Only the very largest earth based dishes can receive high rate telemetry from SOHO’s functional low-gain antenna and since the NASA partial shutdown the data has got even spottier with huge gaps in coverage. In fact an entire CME was missed last week. I don’t know enough about how the downlinks/tracking are currently configured to know if the missing data is really suspicious or not. I do know that SOHO data has always had gaps because of the antenna problem.

  570. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    16 Oct, 2013 - 5:40 pm

    AA; That CME was X-class non-Earth directed immediately following fireworks from a comet fragment colliding with surface of Sun.

  571. For the return of Habba and Free Speech

    16 Oct, 2013 - 5:44 pm

    “Don’t worry I (and others) shall be back when there are some arguments to engage with – in the meantime the lovers of censorship and worse can just indulge in their usual games.”

    And how can engaging with someones arguments be construed as a “threat with menaces” – why do you feel that someone engaging with your arguments is threatening? Isn’t this exactly the type of argument the KGB used to silence dissidents?

  572. Anon
    16 Oct, 2013 – 5:17 pm

    “Also worth noting that we are now in effect accused of being pederasts”

    Lucky8, 16 Oct, 2013 – 3:09 pm:
    “In return, when next I get some nice SCI I’ll put it up here (come on, when did Snowden ever say he acted alone?), keep the Foreign-Service pederasts on their twinkle-toes.”

    I think you’re a little oversensitive there. I’m sure Lucky8 can speak for himself, but my translation of his comment is as follows:

    SCI = Sensitive compartmented information: a type of United States classified information concerning or derived from sensitive intelligence sources.

    Foreign-Service pederasts = people working for the State Department engaged in an erotic relationship with an adolescent boy.

    Where are you being accused of pederasty in that?

  573. Ben,

    There was actually an earth directed CME that hit last week that appeared out of nowhere. It wasn’t in any imagery and it wasn’t in the NASA/NOAA space weather forecast. It wasn’t a huge CME but the SOHO data presumably covering the period it was launched off the Sun was and still is missing.

    Btw, the official NASA/science position is that non Sun impacting comets do not cause CMEs full-stop (they have statistical analysis somewhere to back that up) and that the electric universe stuff is a load of nonsense. Most of the electric universe stuff is nonsense as far as I am concerned but that doesn’t mean there may not be some additional mechanisms here we are unaware of.

  574. So,a tag team scam to disrupt the blog AND impending comet doom chat…so eschatological,so Armageddonish…

    Is it Rapture yet?

    Or just another golf sale?

  575. For the return of Habba and Free Speech

    16 Oct, 2013 - 5:58 pm

    Rouge

    I was referring to the last sentence of Passerby’s post where he added to Lucky 8′s tasteless remark about the Foreign Service – I think it is safe to assume that he considers me within that category.

  576. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    16 Oct, 2013 - 5:59 pm

    “but that doesn’t mean there may not be some additional mechanisms here we are unaware of.”

    Or, mechanisms we are aware of, but don’t understand, like Dark Matter.

  577. Jon/Craig

    The Catholic Orangemen of Togo doesn’t seem have any active links from this blog to online copies. Is that expected (legal reasons) or has something gone missing? The link to “Online collection of supporting documents” for Murder in Samarkand is also broken as it points to craigmurray.co.uk not .org.uk

  578. Rouge, this ziofuckwit wanker is picking around to get his fucking master bator back in, roflmao goes:

    This is a euphemism for threatening them with physical violence I presume.

    This coming from a tosser who is supporting a fucked up supremacist bunch of fuckwits that will shoot, bomb, incinerate their own reflection in the mirror, and have built their wanky system on terrorism (Orange Grove dead British paratroopers remains booby trapped and hanged in the baking sun), murder (Lord Moyne), genocide (on going Palestinians mass murder to date after seventy years) land land theft (settlements). These vermin tossers are used to playing the system and gaming the treaties and conventions. It is busy trying to find any hooks, to justify its wanky stance, fucking pitiful more and more sounds like a deranged fishwife.

    Anyone seen the scrolls of lake titicaca yet? Is there a section of bible as the registry for the cybersapce somewhere yet?

  579. “Jon has failed to see this as he goes on to state; we have much in the way of paid disruption here.”

    What Jon actually said was,

    “But I do not subscribe, in the main, to the idea that we have much in the way of paid disruption here”

    Neither do I. Nor do I see committed Zionists or ‘trolls’. Nor “sinister forces stalking this blog”. What I see are people who disagree with the general tenor of the comments, as they were, and an over-emphasis on Israel. And a bad reaction from the other side, themselves paranoid about “hasbara trolls” around every corner and in every second comment.

    It seems to me that as the blog became more popular, it was only to be expected that people of different political views would appear here eventually. And they did. So what? Are the supporters of Palestinians, or critics of the status quo in the West, so insecure that their only recourse is to demand censorship and banning? That’s just sad. Sad and inadequate.

    I have also seen some entirely unnecessary abuse of Jon, who has done a sterling job with little recognition. I’m sorry to see him “resign” but I’m not surprised at all. He’s put up with a lot, not least being let down by Craig.

    Thanks for everything, Jon, and I hope you’ll stay as an ‘ordinary Joe’. I also hope Craig thanks you for the time and patience you’ve expended here.

  580. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    16 Oct, 2013 - 6:13 pm

    Fully agree, Dre.

    “not least being let down by Craig.” It’s a voluntary role and Craig seems to treat mods like paid employees.

  581. Is it Rapture yet?

    Looks like it is, reading the transactions is a funny as fuck affair, you hit the nail; “golf sale”!!!

    Just read the shite;

    Nor do I see committed Zionists or ‘trolls’. Nor “sinister forces stalking this blog”.

    That is after this;

    Also worth noting that we are now in effect accused of being pederasts

    Copy these pages and keep a local copy on your setup, the last line of the defence has just given way and all is not so well in the land of the ziofuckwits so used to kick up and get away with it.

  582. Anon,

    Yes, I see it now. Though I think he means rather that you (plural) seek to stifle criticism of said Foreign-Service types, not that you are them.

    Fedup,

    I understand your anger and frustration, especially with regard to Israel and Palestine, where every thinking human must clearly be able to see that Israel wants all the land and is using every trick in the book to get it, on the basis that in a century or so most will have forgotten how they did it.

    But look what happened to this blog yesterday. All the rage goes nowhere. There must be another way.

  583. Goodbye and best wishes, Jon. You did a great job in an impossible situation.

  584. But look what happened to this blog yesterday. All the rage goes nowhere. There must be another way.

    Stop pandering to the ziofuckwits, and for once start the process of turning the tide of genuflections and exceptionalism around. On one hand you are so aghast as to what happened? what did happen? Some fucking bullies were taken to task,and they let rip! So? On the other you are concerned about Palestinians. It is no longer a Palestinian issue, just how many “security” firms of these zioufckwits are operating in this country? How many of the so called “representatives” have been compromised by these vermin?

    So far this blog has been kept in check with the zioufcukwit cohort getting special treatment. They have insulted, sneered, stifled, derailed, and bullied their way through threads, and they are still allowed to hang around! Thier insults are left in place, read up there and you will see them waxing lyrical about it all.

    This blog is not getting any advertising revenue, its owner kissed goodbye a marvellous job that most weaklings would pimp their wives for, or sell their mothers, grannies and daughters combined to get. The poor bastard was nearly murdered by getting poisoned, yet he stuck to his principles.

    Yet somehow we have been shoved into the abyss of letting these ziofuckwtis rain shit all over the place, why?

    Instead of kicking their butts into kingdom come (fuck their cries for freedom, freedom freedom shit), they have been given latitude to rain the shit they have. As someone has said already, change is to confront the arrangement set in place and that is standing up to the ziofuckwits, and confronting them, not acquiescing and letting them to coerce, cajole, and bully their way to fuckup yet another blog.

    This is funny as fuck that the J. Edgar Hoover principles have been applied here; no organised crime exists = no ziofuckwit mercenaries are stalking this blog. Just read the thread and see how many posts of utter shite by the same ziofuckwits have been posted? Why should they be allowed to get away with it?

  585. technicolour

    16 Oct, 2013 - 7:14 pm

    I met a traveller from an antique land
    Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
    Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,
    Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
    And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
    Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
    Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
    The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed:
    And on the pedestal these words appear:
    “My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
    Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!”
    Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
    Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
    The lone and level sands stretch far away

    Thanks for everything, Jon.

  586. Although I’ve had differences & major concerns, I also wish to thank Jon for his time & effort here.

    So until further notice I guess it’s a bit of a free for all now; instead of retreating, I would have thought that this is the time for all those that really value this Blog, to step up to the mark & reclaim this bit of Cyberspace from those who wish to turn it into a Zionist friendly troll’s playground, a la Harry’s Place.

  587. I have just found CheebaCow’s comment, giving instructions about the blocking script.

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/04/the-official-tsarnaev-story-makes-no-sense/#comment-404193

    But unfortunately, the place CheebCow told us to find the script no longer has it. It was here

    http://freetexthost.com/u32z3v6lxg

    I have no idea if you’re around, CheebaCow, but if you are, maybe you could post it again?

  588. Thanks for your kind words, everyone.

    AlcAnon, I am not sure there’s ever been links to online copies of Catholic Orangemen. I think they’re extremely widely available via the search engines though. Drop a line to Craig via the contact page? It’s a good idea.

    As for Samarkand, I’ve fixed the link – thanks.

  589. Hollowblock

  590. If I could exclude the pointless posters here I might stay reading but its pretty difficult to find the good threads now, pity this blog was a very informative place once….

  591. @ Villager

    “Maybe Jon can help you with your flyers next time you plan to fail an election. You need help with your basic English. On second thoughts Fedup could help make them ever more endearing”

    Could you explain yourself please, who do you actually mean and why do you think somebody needs help with their basic english?

    BTW, you forgot a coma between thoughts and Fed up, but since you are perfect, that was obviously deliberate to catch me out.

    I have stood in local and EU elections, have been active throughout my life, hoping that my principles are shared with others.
    Never did I have the economic prowess of political party candidates and hence my campaigns have been undertaken on a shoe string. Loosing is normal for me and many others, it becomes a second skin, you deal with it.

    Luckily this was balanced out with the successes, the love and understanding I have experienced in my private life, the interesting characters I have enjoyed meeting and talking to, the work I have done for others.

    Maybe you are so much better than anyone here Villager, and have fought successful party political campaigns, for all we know you are a triple hatter, mayor, cllr. and county councillor? so full of vigour you must be the perfect man to deal with voters personal cases and chores.

    Why don’t you tell us how many times you offered the public an alternative to the party political shite that is currently running this asylum and how you got on? Diod you ever syand in local elections?

    Thanks for all you have done Jon, despite the constant disruption and personal attention seekers, you have managed to live your life aside a cauldron. There seems to be a concerted campaign by perfect people here, who will soon be left to carp at themselves.

    Thanks for the kind words of Sofia, Daniel R and KOWN, I’m sure Jon will appreaciate it.

  592. Thanks Jon.

    I probably should drop Craig an email as you say.

    I remember downloading Orangemen ages ago but couldn’t find a local copy. Maybe I downloaded from Clark’s site though which is where I downloaded new copies. Assuming there’s no legal reason for me not to host them then there are copies for now also at http://www.squonk.tk/craigmurray/ which is hosted in Amazon Domain EU-West (Ireland data-centre). If people hosting them get legal letters then I should probably take them down as Amazon hosting has a history of pulling the plug on things they don’t like (Wikileaks for example) and that would shutdown my account.

  593. AlcAnon, very much doubt you’d get a legal letter, to be honest; as far as I know Clark has never received one. I’m sure Craig would welcome you hosting another copy.

  594. Actually I should be fine with Amazon as I see they advertise the physical book for sale starting at £56.99 for a new copy!!! and £5.99 secondhand – https://www.amazon.co.uk/Catholic-Orangemen-other-Conflicts-Known/dp/0956129900

  595. Thanks for the added info Jon.

    Very sorry to see you go as a mod as well. Glad to see you are still posting though.

  596. Jon, thanks for all your work, and I’m sorry to see you resign. I’m still travelling around Scotland and thus not really available for e-mail discussions, but drop an e-mail to my GMX account and I’ll reply to it eventually.

    The Catholic Orangemen of Togo can be found here:

    http://www.killick1.plus.com/craig.html

    Jon is correct that I have never received any kind of legal threat for hosting it. Jon, if Craig would like, you can put up a link to it from this blog.

    ——

    How often does it have to be said before people see sense?

    DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS

    It doesn’t matter who you personally think the trolls are, engage with the issues, NOT the contributor. As stated by A Node (I think), tit-for-tat perpetuates the problem.

  597. Marc Dutroux

    16 Oct, 2013 - 9:36 pm

    yeah, you anti-semites, get your minds out of the gutter! Howard Gutman, Skip Boyce, Chris Richard – they aren’t real cookie-pushers, they’re spooks! How do you expect them to protect America without pedophile blackmail?

  598. “The GOP’s little rule change they hoped you wouldn’t notice”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Jd-iaYLO1A

  599. resident dissident

    16 Oct, 2013 - 10:12 pm

    Jon
    Sorry to see you go – you can see the degeneration already as the children see to explore the limits as to what they can get away with. Clearly I don’t think you were a very good censor – but I do think you were a very good moderator in the true meaning of that word . You understand the importance of seeing all sides of the argument and difficult though it may have been you dealt with everyone with good humour and always had the good grace to explain your actions. The only advice on the censorship would be to have graduation of punishment before resorting to the final sanction – sharp rebukes,ridicule,deletions of offensive posts in part or whole(and yes this isn’t just confined to one side of the argument), requests for apologies and temporary bans all have their place.

  600. Clark,

    Thanks for confirming you’ve had no issues hosting Craig’s book. Maybe we’ll meet sometime. I wish I could have made it to Doune the Rabbit Hole to be honest.

  601. Good to see wee Sofia back, hope the head is ok after the Canoe incident.

    Jon i knew it was coming… Sorry to hear the day has arrived. a hard task you had indeed. thank you for all you’re hard work on Craig’s Blog. Peace to you Dude

    Komodo. Enjoy holls. But mind pop back in

    Clark..Trolls – aye as was obvious all along, it’s just SOMETIMES Aggghhhh… Enjoy the Autumn Colors on you’re travels

  602. AlcAnon

    is there a button for english Lol… nice work though

  603. Jon, it’s sad and I’m v sorry about it.

  604. Brian,

    Can’t take the credit for the design – it’s a free use template which I am just editing. If I created one from scratch it would probably look more like a website from 1995 :-) It starts off filled with nonsense Latin as do many of these templatss. Apparently it is an old printers thing. All the non-Latin text and links are mine though.

  605. Btw Brian, I approved your comment over there – thanks. Current version of WordPress requires that a first comment be approved by a mod by default. Then subsequent comments should go straight through. Was a bit surprised to get an email “Please Moderate”. It’s mainly just been me and the Google-bot on the site up to now. Google bot found it within hours of going online even though it wasn’t linked from anywhere else.

  606. AlcAnon, I’m still kicking around Scotland for a bit, why leave it to chance? My e-mail address is on the page linked from my name, but be patient, I can’t get on the ‘net every day here.

    Same goes for any others in Scotland. Let’s arrange a meet-up. A bit of direct, human conversation does a lot to dispel the suspicion that can build up during text-only discourse.

  607. P.S., despite his sometimes terse comments here, Fred is an absolute gem; really friendly, helpful and generous.

  608. So we had Syria and wag the dog (except the people we support killed civilians in the process) then Obama blinked and we had the shutdown, the reaching out to Iran, and now the UK is bending over backwards to please the Chinese (stop sniggering, you at the back)

    There has been a shift. Something isn’t as it was in that little imperial imbroglio.

    And Israel doesn’t like any of that one bit. Which is probably bad news for the rest of us.

    I once asked the Palestinian writer Raja Shehadeh if he thought Bibi and his gang of nutters would attack Iran.
    “But that would be crazy, insane,” he protested to me.

    Yup. You got that in one dude. Yet, oddly, that doesn’t reassure me…

  609. Jon, I think that a blog admins meet-up is long overdue, too. Regarding contacting Craig, I think quite a lot of his incoming e-mail gets lost in his spam filter, which he has to keep on an over-active setting because he doesn’t know how to keep an account spam-free.

  610. Resident Dissident, thanks for your thoughts, appreciated. I agree with graduated punishments, and have seen them work well elsewhere. Some of that probably requires the installation of written policies though, which I have been unwilling to do on someone else’s blog without active buy-in and agreement. There’s a couple of mod approaches I think I’d might have done slightly differently, with hindsight. It’s a learning process, definitely!

    AlcAnon, by default WordPress submits posts to automated update services, which Google subscribes to. Nothing untoward there, but if you prefer not to be indexed, you can turn this off in Settings->Writing.

    Technicolour, thanks, but actually I’m happy about all the good discussion that’s been had here. I think I did more good than harm, and new horizons await. Anyway, I’m off for a few days break!

  611. Clark

    Sounds good… is it ok to email you then for whereaboutary and whenaboutary….good wee spell of weather you/ we had there

  612. The Israeli missile “test”" failed; dreams of the Litani are dying.

    Question: How would America react if Israel attacked Iran? That’s the biggie now. If the US stands by and does nothing, Israel’s military invulnerability, seriously questioned by Hezbollah in 2006, will be confirmed. Why? Because there’s no way Israel can disable the Iranian military “threat” by itself. Worse, the Iranians will strike back, and not by lobbing Buicks, as Bill Hicks once said.

    Or was it Les Dennis?

    Musta been a lot of anger there, breaking up with Amanada…

    Now I’ve got some pakora to eat. Goodnight the good guys, and sod everyone else.

  613. Jon,

    Yes I’d noticed that WordPress registers the blog. However Google found it before I installed WordPress. I guess Google either checks new domain registrations regularly and pokes about to see what it finds – or tk domain may submit new registrations to Google themselves. It’s not something that worried me :-)

  614. kedem forever

    17 Oct, 2013 - 1:06 am

    My two cents – if Jon was so naive as to think there are no DIY bloggers, that we have here innocent posters blogging away for the greater good of mankind (and Scottish Independence!) instead of world jewry,it was about time he familiarised himself with the real professionals from Herzliya at HuffPo !! Before coming back a bit more wiser, Villager babu’s yiddish has been too esoteric for him !

  615. Senate passes bill to re-fund government by 81 – 18 votes. Now over to the House. Less than 4 hours until deadline remaining.

  616. kedem forever

    17 Oct, 2013 - 1:19 am

    Now back to the real business at hand, about this creeping annexation and attempted genocide of the Palestinians. It started way back in 1946 with the newly invented tactic – the bombing of the King David Hotel. Check out the progress since,here.

  617. kedem forever

    17 Oct, 2013 - 1:31 am

    @AA – its all the fault of the scoobydoo aliens of the Nevada Desert, they are all masquerading as Congressmen now. Ask Ben, if they fail ISON will be passing nearby they can jump on board and hitch a ride back to planet Zog, and leave us all here on earth at peace!

  618. Brian,

    Just for you, the Latin text is now actually useful! :-)

  619. Jon: Sorry that you’re going. You have done well at a very difficult and particularly thankless job, and have been rather left swinging in the wind in the meantime.

    CM is a complex character, for sure, but he does seem to take a somewhat perverse delight in sticking a finger in the eye of those that want to support him (and his blog in your particular case here).

    That miserable post on the environment was a definite case in point. It’s not a surprise that people concerned about human rights are often concerned about animal rights and environmental degradation – the causes, culprits and solutions often run parallel after all. That post championed willful ignorance about the environment in a manner than CM would have considered unconscionable, were it applied to the same level of willful ignorance on human rights. And Craig actually devoted a supposedly considered post to the subject, remember.

    Being “provocative” like this might make one feel all mavericky, edgy, but at the end of the day is intellectually lazy and inconsistent. Liable to lose support and to disappoint. Likely to drive away, or at least disinterest those that thought they had a real champion.

    If that was the aim, he’s got it. In me – and to a much more important extent now, in you, Jon.

  620. Nominative
    Vocative
    Accusative
    Genitive
    Dative
    Ablative

    It really is the amazing crap that sticks for decades and decades. Not really any use.

    Mitto Mittis Mittit…

    Amabam Amabas Amabat…

    Bonam Noctem!

  621. Glenn,

    Perhaps when Craig’s current book is finished he can pay more attention to the blog. Right now I can see it coming to an inglorious end. He really needs to give more thought and attention to it.

  622. It will be fine. The people who know what Craig’s talking about will wait for his posts. The pearl-clutching hasbara noodges will get bored waiting for a fight to pick or a rhetorical shoah to whine about.

    Alcanon’s forum is in the grand tradition of Moon of Alabama, a spinoff that found its own way. It will doubtless be a boon to mankind.

    Not to negate Alcanon’s invaluable initiative, but one serious question: can we trust the Amazon cloud, or any corporate cloud? Corporations are criminal scum. What kind of logging, what kind of fingerprinting will they do? We could always put it on Freenet or i2p.

  623. Happy birthday, Craig!

    Hope all is well, wherever you are, and that you will be opening a bottle of the finest bourbon :-/

  624. Herzlichen Glueckwunsch zum Geburtstag Craig.

  625. “intellectually lazy and inconsistent.”

    It’s the inconsistency you don’t like, Glenn. Because, like many leftists, you hold on to AGW theory for ideological reasons, Craig’s “inconsistency” is in his departure from those lines. That is why you do not question his stance on the science. And you try the usual trick of trying to conflate scepticism about the science of AGW with a lack of care about environmental degradation. If the theory were proven, then Craig would doubtless be supporting measures to combat global warming, but he has a more inquiring mind than you do.

    There is nothing “intellectually lazy” about questioning why there has been no statistically significant global warming for 17 years, given that global temperatures should have risen exponentially in that time.

  626. Sorry to see Komodo go. One of the blog’s fiercest Anti-Zionist campaigners, his 10,000+ contributions on Israel, Zionism and the Jews achieved precisely fuck all in changing the life of one single Palestinian living under Israeli occupation, but I’m glad he got it all off his back.

    I am therefore heartened to learn that he will henceforth be pursuing more “direct action”, (whatever that might be?) and hope he will pop in from time to time to keep us updated on his endeavours.

    Cheerio Komodo, and Allah’u Akbar!

  627. Farewells also to Glenn, Jon and the conspiranoid KOWN, who seems to believe the comments section is for his or her views and no-one else’s. Farewell to you all.

    And with so many sad departures, on a more cheerful note may I extend the warmest return welcome to Habbabkuk.

    As they say, every cloud has a silver lining!

  628. @Anon, here to gloat again; shame you are still around, but then again trolls never ever leave voluntary; perhaps you can be persuaded to take a small, “working trip” if you like;

    http://a0.vsoh.com/353146644091b7c5.jpg

  629. I am very sorry you are giving up as mod Jon but understand your reasons. It cannot have been easy going. I wish you all the best. Craig too has to earn a living for his wife and family entailing some long absences abroad and he has had health concerns too. Thus the blog is not his No 1 priority.

    Clark says – ‘Don’t feed the trolls’. Quite right too. Some here even deny their existence although the slimy trails are here in the record for all to see. Some too have friendly little chats with them and some who support the PSC even say that there are too many posts here relating to Israel!

    Here are just two reminders of what the owner of the blog said about Israel

    after Cast Lead http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Egova7DRsw

    and after Mavi Mamara http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSbXEeLQBvk

    It is nearly a year since the troll known as Habbakuk arrived on the blog. He must be pleased with his handiwork and that of the others seeing how things have turned out.

    Thanks to those people for the kind remarks addressed to me on the previous page and for the advice about my friends’ Parkinson’s and Motor Neurone Disease respectively which I will pass on. Unimaginable for a husband and wife to be dealing with their diagnoses.

    Cheers to Clark and happy travelling.

  630. Need I say any more? The last three posts by ‘Anon’ say it all. You would think they would exercise some hesitation and shut up for the time being.

  631. Jon,

    Tho’ I have disagreed with many of your positions, I am happy to say you are probably the single most eloquent writer I have read here – some of your lines were like riffs. Thank you for the polite exchanges and best of luck to you.

  632. Sofia Kibo Noh

    17 Oct, 2013 - 9:38 am

    Jon.

    I’m sorry to see you’ve thrown in the towel. What an impossible and thankless task you had. As one of the cats in the bag you were holding I know you’ve earned a break.

    Anon. 9 08am

    Are we going to see more of this new attacking people who are not even there thing? Pure Genius! If only the IDF adopted your tactic we might see a little less slaughter of civilians.

    BTW, that’s my boyfriend you’re talking about.

  633. Hi Mary, thanks for the links, and good to see you engaging :)

    It is true that Craig was outraged after Cast Lead and the Mavi Mamara incident, as were we all. But those two events, heinous as they were, do not justify the all-consuming obsession with Israel and Jews we see on every page of every comments section of every blog. Craig hasn’t actually written about Israel for quite a while.

    Meanwhile, last month, September, saw 233 attacks, in 19 countries, on 5 different religions, with 2005 killed, and 3079 citically injured. But the perpetrators weren’t Jewish.

  634. “Tho’ I have disagreed with many of your positions, I am happy to say you are probably the single most eloquent writer I have read here.”

    Seconded. Whatever his views or the quality of his moderation, Jon is indeed an outstanding writer.

  635. The head of the Israeli navy has been apprehended at Heathrow and questioned. Not arrested of course as we have no universal jurisdiction now so war criminals can come and go at will. What was he doing here is the question?

    http://www.jpost.com/International/Former-Israeli-navy-commander-questioned-at-Londons-Heathrow-Airport-328682

    Marom was in charge of the Israeli navy at the time of Cast Lead when they bombed and shelled the Gaza coast, the attack on the Mavi Marmara flotilla and also when the Free Gaza mv Dignity was rammed.

    I see this Wikipedia entry has been ‘edited’ by the CAMERA brigade. See that ‘the Iranian boat was LADEN with weapons for Hamas’ heading for Sudan?? and the Dignity almost rammed itself! There are accounts on the net of the latter incident which describe the triple ramming of the boat by Israeli gunships in the dark in rough seas 53 miles off Haifa.

    Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_War
    Naval operations[edit]
    The Israeli Navy attacked Hamas’ rocket launchers and outposts, command and control centers, a Hamas patrol boat, and the office of Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh, using the Typhoon Weapon System and Surface to surface missiles.[141][142] The navy coordinated with other Israeli forces and used powerful shipboard sensors to acquire and shell targets on land.[113][143] Records of the attacks published by the navy indicate that for the first time vessels were equipped with Spike ER electro-optically guided anti-armor missiles. Videos of an attack showed precision hits from a Typhoon stabilizing gun despite a rolling sea. Versions of the Spike were also used by ground units[1] and possibly by helicopters or unmanned aerial vehicles.[144] Shayetet 13 naval commandos were also deployed to attack targets on land,[20] and reportedly attacked an Iranian ship loaded with arms for Hamas, which was docking in Sudan.[145] On 28 December, Naval vessels shelled the Port of Gaza.[124]
    On December 29, the Free Gaza Movement relief boat Dignity carrying volunteer doctors with 3.5 tons of medical supplies, human rights activists (Among them Caoimhe Butterly and former US Representative Cynthia McKinney), and a CNN reporter was involved in an altercation with Israeli patrol boats. The captain of the Free Gaza vessel said that their vessel had been rammed intentionally and that there had been no warning before it had been rammed.[146] An Israeli spokesman disputed this, and said the collision was caused by the Dignity attempting to outmaneuver the patrol boats after disobeying Israeli orders to turn back.[147]
    On January 4, the Israeli Navy extended its blockade of the Gaza Strip to 20 nautical miles.[148]
    Throughout the war, the Israeli Navy employed Sa’ar 4.5 class missile boats and Super Dvora Mk III class patrol boats.

    ~~

    This is still my favourite.:) Google have put a little dissuader on it. Hilarious.

    Gaza flotilla video mashup: Internet Killed Israeli PR http://www.youtube.com/verify_controversy?next_url=/watch%3Fv%3DME_NpnH7jDc

  636. I believe this is called ‘parsing the lies’.

    The NSA Spying and Lying Does Relate to 9/11
    Posted on October 16, 2013 by Kevin Ryan

    Earlier this month, National Security Agency (NSA) head Keith Alexander admitted that he had lied to the U.S. Congress and the American people in an attempt to justify the NSA’s growing surveillance of U.S. citizens. In June, while attempting to defend the secret NSA programs revealed by whistleblower Edward Snowden, Alexander claimed that over 50 terrorist plots had been thwarted though collection of the phone and internet records of American citizens. Alexander said that his agency had provided Congress with 54 specific cases in which the programs helped disrupt terror plots in the U.S. and around the world.

    /..
    http://digwithin.net/2013/10/16/nsa-spying-and-lying/

  637. “There is nothing “intellectually lazy” about questioning why there has been no statistically significant global warming for 17 years, given that global temperatures should have risen exponentially in that time.”

    No it shouldn’t. It should have fallen.

    Take a look at this graph.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature_record

    In the past the five year average has risen and fallen with the natural cycles, there doesn’t seem to have been any significant falls from 1995 to 2010. Temperatures haven’t fallen below the 1961 to 1990 average since the early 1990s.

    To say we had an exceptionally hot year in 1998 and we haven’t had one all that much hotter since proves global warming has stopped shows a total lack of understanding of the subject.

  638. It depends what subject is at issue. If the “global warming has stopped” argument is actually about making the world safe for unlimited fossil fuel consumption, then it shows a perfect understanding of neoliberal political theories and the demands of the globalised free market. The science is as clear as science can be (given that it never stops trying for a better understanding of a subject). The politics, on the other hand, is deliberately misleading.

  639. For the return of Habba and Free Speech

    17 Oct, 2013 - 10:33 am

    Anon

    I think you are being a little unfair on Komodo for although he clearly had strongly held opinions he did at least recognise that others were entitled to hold other views and was prepared to engage with them. I never saw him as part of the “if you are not 100% with us you are against us crowd” which has many adherents and even goes so far as criticising those who do not show sufficient fervor in support of what they see as at times the sole political cause within the world (e.g. “and some who support the PSC even say that there are too many posts here relating to Israel!”). I live in hope that one day the zealots here will eventually realise that the reason for the misery being perpetuated in Palestine and many other places in the world is that the problems usually arise because the zealots on both side of the argument have entered into a mutual relationship where there mutual hate just feeds each other.

    Perhaps once in a while rather than pointing out the continual human rights abuses by the IDF and the State of Israel (and I have no problem with this being done whatsoever) they should engage in a little thinking about what is the underlying motivation (and they can ignore or the Rothschilds/International Banking conspiracy/Protocols of Zion garbage elsewhere) and how that may be addressed – particularly since the political reality is that the State of Israel is not likely to go away or dissolve for the forseeable future.

  640. For the return of Habba and Free Speech 17 Oct, 2013 – 10:33 am

    “Perhaps once in a while rather than pointing out the continual human rights abuses by the IDF and the State of Israel (and I have no problem with this being done whatsoever) they should engage in a little thinking about what is the underlying motivation (and they can ignore or the Rothschilds/International Banking conspiracy/Protocols of Zion garbage elsewhere) and how that may be addressed – particularly since the political reality is that the State of Israel is not likely to go away or dissolve for the forseeable future.”

    OK, I’ve had a think about it and I conclude that the underlying motivation for the continual human rights abuses by the IDF and the State of Israel is a wish to ethnically cleanse Palestine of Palestinians. Do you agree?

  641. For the return of Habba and Free Speech

    17 Oct, 2013 - 11:02 am

    And why do think they wish to do that?

  642. Great stuff Jon, Komodo and concerned – much appreciated here.

  643. For the return of Habba and Free Speech 17 Oct, 2013 – 11:02 am

    “And why do think they wish to do that?”

    To have all of Palestine for themselves. Do you agree with my analysis?

  644. 4-6,

    Can Amazon be trusted? Well Wikileaks trusted them until thy were booted off, But given the recent revelations there has now to be at least the possibility that Amazon booted Wikileaks off their server farm rather than let the NSA get secret back-end access to it. Also Amazon have millions of virtual hosts running at any one time. I’d think it would be more likely for the smaller providers to have employees trawling through customer data just because they can.

    Of note though, from recent leaks we discovered that GCHQ bought virtual servers in the Amazon cloud to run their investigations into breaking into TOR – which suggests they trust Amazon security :-)

    But if a proper official forum was set up I’d think the place for it to be is on the same server this blog runs on.

  645. Agent Cameron brazenly lies to MPs ;

    “ when asked politely by my national security adviser and cabinet secretary to destroy the files they had, they went ahead and destroyed those files,”

    A Guardian spokesman said: “The prime minister is wrong to say the Guardian destroyed computer files because we agreed our reporting was damaging. We destroyed the computers because the government said it would use the full force of the law to prevent a newspaper from publishing anything about the NSA or GCHQ.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/16/mps-investigate-guardian-edward-snowden-leaks

  646. For the return of Habba and Free Speech

    17 Oct, 2013 - 11:54 am

    A Node

    It isn’t really much of an analysis to agree or disagree with at present – sure some Israelis think like that – but you need to think harder about what the motivating factors are.

  647. “Do you agree with my analysis?”

    Baiting trolls to prove that they are not trolls is a fun pursuit if you have the time & patience !

    Seems that the World Bank is the latest to agree with your analysis:

    http://www.thenational.ae/thenationalconversation/comment/world-bank-report-is-a-message-against-israeli-occupation#full

  648. Exactly so A Node. 11.19am You will not get any agreement though.

    ~~

    ‘Oh dear Camilla! I see that British Gas have just put up their prices for electricity and gas by 10.4% and 8.4% respectively. We will have to turn down the thermostats, and isolate some radiators and just wear more jumpers.’

    I see he is very concerned for us and our pension entitlements, even saying he is concerned for his grandson! Speaking as one of the richest grandfathers in the land, I don’t think Georgie will have any worries when he reaches the age of 65.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/10383790/Prince-Charles-calls-for-pensions-industry-fit-for-21st-Century.html

  649. Further to my above guardian link iro plans to investigate that paper over the Snowden leaks, here’s some reasons to be very cynical about that investigation;

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/16/national-security-leaks-gchq-nsa-intelligence-agencies

  650. For the return of Habba and Free Speech 17 Oct, 2013 – 11:54 am

    “A Node

    It isn’t really much of an analysis to agree or disagree with at present – sure some Israelis think like that – but you need to think harder about what the motivating factors are.”

    It is a precise and honest answer to your question (i.e. what is the underlying motivation for the continual human rights abuses by the IDF and the State of Israel?).
    Please reply to my question (i.e. do you agree with me?).

  651. …Prince Charles is speaking as one of the richest grandfathers in the land and I don’t think Georgie will have any worries when he reaches the age of 65.

    ~~~

    British Gas’s prices rises are higher on average than SSE’s.

    The BG energy mob have recently employed Christine McGourty for their PR. She was the BBC’s environment correspondent and afterwards did PR for Energy UK, an energy industry trade association with 80 members. They are well organised you see.

    She was aggressively strident just now on Sky News in defence of her new masters.

    http://www.prweek.com/article/1192541/energy-uks-christine-mcgourty-takes-british-gas-corporate-affairs-role

    http://www.linkedin.com/pub/christine-mcgourty/18/bb4/b65

  652. Turning Blood into Money
    Profiting from Killing

    by Vacy Vlazna / October 16th, 2013

    Warning! The Lab contains war-porn and hard-core evil; watch and weep.

    ( New Film Exposes the Israeli Weapon and Security Industry Director Yotam Feldman: the Israeli economy has become dependent on the massive security market. Governments act in hypocrisy when they purchase Israeli arms used against Palestinians, but criticize Israeli violence. – May 21, 13 http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=10220 )

    Yotam Feldman’s documentary, released in August, is one of the most important exposés of the obscene rationale and execution of Israel’s hugely lucrative arms and security industries through the voices of some of its ex-military key operators: Amos Golan, Shimon Naveh, Leo Gleser, and Yoav Galant.

    Israel’s armament juggernaut currently turns over $7 billion p.a. and its phenomenal success is, as Feldman reveals, due to experience, that is, the testing of weaponry on the Palestinian population in the Israeli military ‘labs’ of Gaza and the West Bank:

    ‘I think the main product Israelis are selling, especially in the last decade, is experience… the testing of the products, the experience is the main thing they [customers] are coming to buy. They want the missile that was shot in the last operation in Gaza or the rifle that was used in the last West Bank incursion.’

    Without blinking an eye, Benjamin Ben Eleixer, Industry Minister proudly asserts the reason for the tremendous demand for Israeli weapons and technology,

    ‘If Israel sells weapons, they have been tested, tried out. We can say: we’ve used this for 10 years, 15 years.’

    Tested by Israeli killers on 1,398 Palestinian children murdered since 2000 and the hundreds of thousands of children who struggle with war trauma, PTSD and perpetual terror.

    /..
    http://dissidentvoice.org/2013/10/turning-blood-into-money/

  653. For the return of Habba and Free Speech

    17 Oct, 2013 - 12:30 pm

    A Node

    No I don’t agree that most Israelis believe in ethnic cleansing or wish to have the whole of Palestine for themselves – so I don’t believe that is the motivating factor behind why a sufficient number accept their State behaving as it does. You are really confusing cause and effect – and if you wish to follow your simplistic analysis you really are drawn to the conclusion that the only way out of the mess is for one side or another to triumph militarily over the other – perhaps with a deeper understanding of motivations and some mutual recognition of each other then such a reckoning (and the untold misery that would arise) can be avoided. Do you think that your approach contributed much to conflict resolution in Ireland or South Africa?

  654. @ For the return of Habba and Free Speech

    OK, so if you don’t agree with me, what do you believe is the underlying motivation for the continual human rights abuses by the IDF and the State of Israel?

  655. For the return of Habba and Free Speech

    17 Oct, 2013 - 12:36 pm

    No Mary – I wouldn’t expect much agreement with you. But rather than being negative – perhaps you might wish to suggest how you see the situation being resolved if only to reduce the suffering of the Palestinians – to my knowledge you have never once contributed your view as to the way forward but only criticised anyone who supports negotiations or who seriously wants to see some resolution. What is the way forward – driving Israel into the sea, the Hamas Charter, something else?? If you want to be taken seriously on this subject now is the time to actually offer something positive.

  656. Kedem Forever

    17 Oct, 2013 - 1:02 pm

    Now that we have the attention of the DIY brigade, why was the Almighty SILENT in Poland, Cambodia and Rwanda. Are there any lessons to be learnt? They are planting the gharqad tree all over the West Bank but will it be enough to mitigate the cause n effect? Is the comatose sharon a warning, or he is simply not wanted in Hell either? What about the sayanim trying desperately to bury the 911 phenomenon of the WTCs “exploded or free fall collapsed” in 8 seconds, are they going to be nailed for being accessories after the fact? Will trolling constitute an offence that denies any cover behind the boxtree? These and many more troubling questions.

  657. For the return of Habba and Free Speech

    17 Oct, 2013 - 1:06 pm

    A Node

    At the simplest level I would say the underlying motivations were fear and a wish for stability – I’m afraid I don’t see the vast bulk of Israeli Jews (or anyone else for that matter) as being inherently evil, they are not a lot different from anyone else apart from having different family histories.

  658. For the return of Habba and Free Speech

    17 Oct, 2013 - 1:12 pm

    “why was the Almighty SILENT in Poland, Cambodia and Rwanda.”

    Perhaps because there is no such thing as the Almighty – even if you believe that there was someone/thing behind creation it has always struck me as fairly nonsensical that they were able to design and control very subsequent aspect of their creation regardless of whether they wanted to or not.

  659. @ For the return………………………

    Tell us who you really are. I have an idea who lies behind the new handle.

    And after you with the suggestions. Not more peace talks à la B.Liar, Bibi and Kerry please? They are a fiction, a joke, flim flam. A second state? No way as there is hardly anything left for the Palestinian people, just Bantustans. One state with equal representation for EVERY citizen? No you wouldn’t have that. The Zionist Israelis might be outnumbered.

  660. There can be only one motivation for Israel to treat the Palestinians the way they do.

    http://occupiedpalestine.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/israel-palestine_map_19225_2469.jpg

  661. For the return of Habba and Free Speech

    17 Oct, 2013 - 1:24 pm

    Mary

    I was previously anon – and apart from what I say that is all I shall reveal – but I’m not Habba, Villager or anyone else for that matter.

    You have said what the end objective is – but what is your road map (or anything else) for getting there. I might also ask what would be the religious status of your State, what constitutional protections there would be for minority rights, what protection there is for property rights acquired post 1948 etc. etc. – but that is all pretty meaningless until there is some plan for the achievement of this State.

  662. For the return of Habba and Free Speech

    17 Oct, 2013 - 1:33 pm

    Andy

    You are confusing cause and effect – it should also be noted that some of the maps you display are just plain lies – there were Jews in Palestine in 1917 and before – at the turn of the century it is estimated that Jews made up about 10% of the population but your map has wiped them out – and are clearly as politically biased as those of the idiots who talk about Eretz Israel. Such games just entrench prejudices rather than reduce them I’m afraid.

  663. Who was it here who was jeering at the reports of the oil spill in N. Dakota? Just a little drop. No more than a swimming pool* full we were told, etc etc.

    More here.

    Over 865,200 Gallons of Fracked Oil Spilled
    The North Dakota Oil Spill You Didn’t Hear About
    by STEVE HORN

    Over 20,600 barrels of oil fracked from the Bakken Shale has spilled from a Tesoro Logistics pipeline in Tioga, North Dakota in one of the biggest onshore oil spills in recent U.S. history.

    Though the spill occurred on September 29, the U.S. National Response Center- tasked with responding to chemical and oil spills – did not make the report available until October 8 due to the ongoing government shutdown.

    “The center generally makes such reports available on its website within 24 hours of their filing, but services were interrupted last week because of the U.S. government shutdown,” explained Reuters

    /..
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/10/17/the-north-dakota-oil-spill-you-didnt-hear-about/

    *PS Some swimming pool. This is the capacity of a 50m Olympic size pool –
    Volume Based on a nominal depth of 2 m, this is 2,500,000 L (550,000 imp gal; 660,000 US gal)
    or, in terms of cubic volume, 2,500 m3 (88,000 cu ft), as is commonly quoted.

    ~~~
    Caroline Lucas, bless her heart for speaking out and standing up to the injustices, appeared at Crawley Magistrates yesterday for her protest at Balcombe. She goes to a Crown Court in the New Year with four others.
    http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/10741156.Caroline_Lucas_pleads_not_guilty_to_fracking_protest_charges/

    All the reports, the one above, Independent, Mail, etc contain a reference to the presence of a supporter in court who used to be a page 3 girl. Totally irrelevant. A silly attempt to belittle Caroline perhaps?

  664. @ For the return of Habba and Free Speech 17 Oct, 2013 – 1:06 pm (in response to his own question about the underlying motivation for the continual human rights abuses by the IDF and the State of Israel)

    “A Node

    At the simplest level I would say the underlying motivations were fear and a wish for stability – I’m afraid I don’t see the vast bulk of Israeli Jews (or anyone else for that matter) as being inherently evil, they are not a lot different from anyone else apart from having different family histories.”

    I question both your reasons.
    (1) I don’t believe Israelis need to be, or are afraid of the Palestinians. Their settlers demonstrate this every day by freely attacking Palestinian mosques, orchards, schools, children, etc. They’re protected by an illegal unassaillable wall. They control everything that enters and leaves Palestine. Their overwhelming military superiority is unhampered by concerns for civilian casualties. If you intend to cite homemade rockets as justification for this “fear”, please address these considerations: there is justifiable doubt about who is actually firing them, given who benefits most from their existence, and more Israelis die from bee stings than rockets.
    (2) How do the continual human rights abuses by the IDF and the State of Israel increase stability?

  665. For the return of Habba and Free Speech

    17 Oct, 2013 - 1:53 pm

    Mary

    I was not jeering at the oil spill reports in North Dakota – I just made the point that there was no MSM conspiracy not to report the spill when it was first notified as a 750 barrel spill to the authorities – and that the MSM did report it when the size of the spill became apparent (they said it covered an area of 7 football pitches – so I have no idea where you got your swimming pool reference from). Please do not twist and distort what I said – especially when what I said is on record.

  666. For the return of Habba and Free Speech

    17 Oct, 2013 - 1:59 pm

    A node

    Motivations do not have to be rational – they can be based on a whole load of other factors including past history in different circumstances. Just understand the motivations and fears of the other side and then try and address/allay them then there is a chance of progress – and this applies to both sides of the argument.

  667. Mary, the government, its media and its law administrators are owned by big money. That big money has been invested in fracking, as an investment. Caroline Lucas is a committed individual who, like other concerned individuals, is against this investment, so the BBC, government and law administrators attack those who are concerned, while failing to report the oil-spillage. These people are sick. Money is their only concern.

    We need a new start where money is not the focal point, but society and its needs, is.

    Jon, sorry to see you go. Perhaps we’ll bump into each other one day on our bikes, not literally you understand. You’ve done an excellent job in very trying circumstances. Thanks.

  668. For the return of Habba and Free Speech 17 Oct, 2013 – 1:59 pm

    “A node

    Motivations do not have to be rational – they can be based on a whole load of other factors including past history in different circumstances. Just understand the motivations and fears of the other side and then try and address/allay them then there is a chance of progress – and this applies to both sides of the argument.”

    You agree that Israel has no rational need to fear Palestine, and although you didn’t answer my second point, I’m sure we can agree that the continual human rights abuses by the IDF and the State of Israel do not increase stability.

    So you are saying that the underlying motivation for the continual human rights abuses by the IDF and the State of Israel is an irrational fear held by Israelis. However it is Israeli military chiefs and politicians who dictate policy. Do you include them amongst these irrational belief holders? If so, you are saying that Israel’s policy towards Palestine is irrational. If not you are saying ….
    (a) Israel’s leaders are using fears they know to be irrational to justify inflicting continual human rights abuses upon Palestinians.
    or
    (b) fear is not the underlying motivation for the continual human rights abuses by the IDF and the State of Israel, in which case, I ask you again, what is it?

    Please clarify your position.

  669. In scrolling (not trolling) through yesterday’s comments I came across a couple by KingofWelshNoir (aka Malcolm Pryce). It is comment-makers like Malcolm who have helped raise the standard of comments and it was good to have his brief input again. Since I last saw a comment by him I read his latest Louis Knight mystery set in Aberystwyth and called ‘The Day Aberystwyth stood still’.

    Louis Knight is a private-eye like no other. He is almost the Mike Hammer antithesis without the Yankee accent. Knight ends up as much on the receiving end as his anti-heroes but this is a send-up of the genre and a jolly good adventure. Enjoyed the read very much and look forward to purchasing his other books in due course. The novel left me with mixed feelings of grottedness and ingrottedness. It’s that kind of book.

    Suggest others take a look at the list if not for themselves to brighten up somebody else’s life. If you’re short of ideas for Christmas presents here are six to be getting on with.

    £50 Malcolm (just joking).

    http://www.malcolmpryce.com/novels.html

  670. John,

    Had no idea KingofWelshNoir was a published author. I checked out the page you linked and all of the books come up as “Sorry, this publication is not available”. I see they are all on Amazon though at http://www.amazon.co.uk/Malcolm-Pryce/e/B001HOQAZC/ref=ntt_dp_epwbk_0

    Malcolm, if you see this could you check your website please.

  671. AlcAnon
    all the book links works for me (firefox 24 on linux mint), in fact each opens to a very pleasing high res cover graphic with an option to read samples.

  672. “China’s official news agency has called for the creation of a “de-Americanised world”, saying the destinies of people should not be left in the hands of a hypocritical nation with a dysfunctional government.

    Heaping criticism and caustic ridicule on Washington, the Xinhua news agency called the US a civilian slayer, prisoner torturer and meddler in others’ affairs, and said the ‘Pax Americana’ was a failure on all fronts. ”

    Pretty rich coming from the Chinese.

    http://www.hrw.org/world-report/2013/country-chapters/china

  673. John Goss, hi there my friend! Thanks for the kind words. I’ll give the £50 to my local pub landlord for safe keeping, ha ha. I’ve missed you and the other good people on here. (You there Dreoilin?) I hope the blog returns to its previous stellar heights at some point in the future. Clicking onto this site is a bit like going to the pub and seeing a load of familiar faces. And one feels a bit at a loose end when one doesn’t go. But this pub seems to have run out of beer at the moment.

    Anyway, I hope you are well and stay well.

  674. AlcAnon

    Hi there. I’m not sure what the problem is, it seems to work OK on my browser – Safari. Are you on an iPad or something?

  675. Kempe 17 Oct, 2013 – 3:22 pm
    mixed messages.

    This much milder statement is all I can find in China’s People’s Daily Online which also uses Xinhua news agency :

    “BEIJING, Oct. 17 — China on Thursday welcomed the passing of legislation to end the U.S. government shutdown and raise the debt ceiling.

    “We welcome the U.S. progress in dealing with the issues,” Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said at a daily press briefing on Thursday.

    Hua’s comments came after the U.S. Senate on Wednesday night approved a deal which would raise the debt ceiling and end the partial shutdown of the federal government.

    “As the world’s largest economy, the proper settlement of the issues works for U.S. interests and benefits world economic stability and development,” Hua said.”

    http://english.people.com.cn/90883/8428644.html

  676. Malcolm,

    I’m on firefox/linux. I see the books are presented In Adobe Flash which starts up in the window but doesn’t display the book for me. I just tried it on my Android phone and it worked fine there (I have Flash installed on it). It may be a Flash on Linux problem. Anyone else tried it on linux?

    Android’s out of the box these days don’t normally have Flash installed but you can still manually install it from the Adobe website.

  677. “Pretty rich coming from the Chinese”

    Re calling the US “a civilian slayer, prisoner torturer and meddler in others’ affairs”, what’s not true ?

    If a murderer points out that a mass murderer is obviously out of control, it doesn’t mean that the mass murderer is not out of control.

  678. For the return of Habba and Free Speech

    17 Oct, 2013 - 3:50 pm

    “You agree that Israel has no rational need to fear Palestine,”

    No I didn’t say that – what I was trying to say was that fears come from a whole variety of sources – trying to work out which are rational and which are not doesn’t necessarily solve anything – the point is that they should be addressed. I don’t think leaders or most other people analyse fears according to rationality – it might be nice if they did but they don’t.

    Similarly with stability – it might be rational to say that IDF operations and/or human rights abuses do not create stability but I’m afraid that is not the perception among many Israelis.

    You may say that the Israeli Jews have no rational fears from Hamas’s home made rockets or being forced to leave Israel (despite them having been forced to leave Eastern Europe and many other Arab countries in the past) but that is not their perception – and I’m afraid that what needs to be dealt with.

    It would be very easy to flip the coin to the other side and look at the fears of the Palestinians as well. Progress is usually made in most successful dispute resolutions when both sides start to understand and address the others fears – tell me that this didn’t happen in Ireland or South Africa.

  679. I am here, Malcolm. I was just about to jump in and say I’ve read Aberystwyth Mon Amour – and enjoyed it very much. I did wonder if there might have been local references I didn’t “get”, having only spent one night in Aberystwyth in my twenties. Wales is very familiar to me, but not Aberystwyth per se.

  680. Mary,

    Going back to your post of 1159, I think it is a good thing that Prince Charles spoke out about the short term investment policies which are pursued by the largest pension providers. Yes he is wealthy, something I have no problem with, but the fact he is willing to speak out on behalf on other pensioners who do not share his financial security is a good thing as far as I am concerned.

  681. For the return of Habba and Free Speech 17 Oct, 2013 – 3:50 pm (in reference to his own question about the underlying motivation for the continual human rights abuses by the IDF and the State of Israel)

    “No I didn’t say that [I agree that Israel has no rational need to fear Palestine]“

    Well, say so now. Do you think that Israel has a rational need to fear Palestine?

  682. Liam Fox has resurfaced. It was he who addressed the presumably prearranged question about the Guardian to Cameron that Cameron then seized upon.

  683. “I don’t think leaders or most other people analyse fears according to rationality – it might be nice if they did but they don’t.”

    Well no, actually. As someone who has a couple of phobias, I wouldn’t want people to use rationality as a yardstick for all fears. Irrational fears can be terrifying.

    Perhaps Israeli fears are phobias?

  684. “However it is Israeli military chiefs and politicians who dictate policy.”

    Irrational fear, paranoia & victimhood are deliberately & cynically cultivated by the Israeli State, as would be apparent to anybody who has seen the documentary “Defamation”; from a very young age, Israeli children are subjected to terrible mental & emotional abuse, so no wonder they grow up being unable to consider anything from a rational perspective, and into believing that the whole World hates & wants to kill them.

  685. Same server, fair enough. This commenter’s criterion for participating in a forum is: to what extent does posting there make you more vulnerable as an officially-designated enemy of the NSA? The ideal is no mandatory authentication (authentication will be used against you); minimal javascript to avoid fingerprinting; SSL/TLS to complement Tor.

  686. In the recent BBC series “The Story of the Jews”, Simon Schama says that Jews are paranoid but that history shows them right to be.

    But if you are always expecting everyone to be against you then are you not always going to be tempted to get at “them” first by deception? See the Book of Judith for example

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Judith

    “She goes with her loyal maid to the camp of the enemy general, Holofernes, with whom she slowly ingratiates herself, promising him information on the Israelites. Gaining his trust, she is allowed access to his tent one night as he lies in a drunken stupor. She decapitates him,”

  687. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Oct, 2013 - 4:47 pm

    Paranoia is an unfairly maligned state of mind. I have found it invaluable because it makes you a chess-player looking several moves down the road. It has served me well.

    “I say we nuke the site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure”

  688. For the return of Habba and Free Speech

    17 Oct, 2013 - 4:52 pm

    A node

    I also said “trying to work out which are rational and which are not doesn’t necessarily solve anything” – which is the reason why I should pass on your question, but there is clearly some rationality given past history of attacks on Israel – you cannot pretend they never happened.

  689. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Oct, 2013 - 4:54 pm

  690. For the return of Habba and Free Speech

    17 Oct, 2013 - 5:08 pm

    “Well no, actually. As someone who has a couple of phobias, I wouldn’t want people to use rationality as a yardstick for all fears. Irrational fears can be terrifying.

    Perhaps Israeli fears are phobias?”

    I take your point, people need to be dealt with as people and by people. I am sure some Israeli fears are phobias – but I am not sure that most people would advocate dealing with phobias by telling them up front that they are being irrational and to stop worrying about them.

  691. ‘Defamation’ was a fascinating film. I don’t remember who posted it here, but it was illuminating. I sent on the link elsewhere.

    Also, the documentary, The Ultra Zionists (‘Louis Theroux spends time with a small and very committed subculture of ultra-nationalist Jewish settlers in the West Bank’) was, well, shocking, to say the least.

  692. @ For the return of Habba and Free Speech 17 Oct, 2013 – 4:52 pm (in reference to his own question about the underlying motivation for the continual human rights abuses by the IDF and the State of Israel)

    “I also said “trying to work out which are rational and which are not doesn’t necessarily solve anything” – which is the reason why I should pass on your question, but there is clearly some rationality given past history of attacks on Israel – you cannot pretend they never happened.”

    OK, but I didn’t ask you to solve anything. I asked you “Do you think that Israel has a rational need to fear Palestine?”

  693. For the return of Habba and Free Speech

    17 Oct, 2013 - 6:03 pm

    “but there is clearly some rationality given past history of attacks on Israel – you cannot pretend they never happened”

    So the answer in part is yes – though quantifying how much fear is rational and how much is irrational would be a pretty impossible and pointless exercise.

  694. “I am not sure that most people would advocate dealing with phobias by telling them up front that they are being irrational and to stop worrying about them.”

    No. But most people with phobias are well aware that they’re irrational (I certainly am) but knowing that doesn’t make them any easier to deal with.

    Confronting them is the only way. Exposure. Bit by bit.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arachnophobia#Treatment

  695. technicolour

    17 Oct, 2013 - 6:38 pm

    Richard Bandler (quick sidestep to express horror at the NLP industry understood) on treating a schizophrenic in a mental hospital:

    So it is important for people to find a way so that they have an excuse to change their behavior. Because he was having psychotic episodes and he was oscillating between absolute catatonia and screaming psychotic episodes. And the episodes were all about there being snakes. So I brought rubber snakes, a whole barrel full of them in the hospital and filled the shower floor, so it seemed like Raiders From The Lost Arc. I even brought a couple of real snakes, a boa constrictor, nothing serious. And this guy was kind of
    in his catatonic phase and we rolled him in and he screamed and screamed and screamed. And I came in and said “can I help you?” and he was going
    “snakes, snakes, snakes”.
    I said to him, “look, I’m gonna leave you in here all
    night or you are gonna tell me which snakes are hallucinated and which
    snakes are real” And the guy looked across the room and went “hallucinated snakes”, looked down and said “rubber snakes” looked up at the real snake and went “real snake”. And it was amazing, how quickly he sorted it all out.”

    who had an overwhelming and permanent fear of imaginary snakes. Bandler, as I remember, smuggled some realistic plastic snakes into the man’s shower, and waited outside.

  696. technicolour

    17 Oct, 2013 - 6:40 pm

    (sorry, last para left over from summary; don’t have the book with me; but found Bandler interview instead)

  697. Dreoilin,

    I’m a fan of Louis Theroux documentaries but I’d missed “The Ultra Zionists”

    Found the full documentary at http://vimeo.com/42568730

    “Defamation” is here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm8-yTBs964

  698. Life in the open air prison camp.

    Israeli troops enter Gaza every three days – Oxfam
    Ali Abunimah

    Israel’s military incursions into the besieged, occupied Gaza Strip increased sharply in September.

    Israeli ground forces entered the occupied territory nine times in September, up from twice in August, according to UK-based development agency Oxfam in its October report on the situation in Gaza.

    That’s about once every three days.

    Shooting at farmers

    There was also a 30 percent increase in fire by Israeli occupation forces toward Palestinians in farmland along the Gaza boundary since July and August.

    The “Israeli army has fired warning shots at farmers, forcing them to leave, and conducted land leveling operations,” Oxfam said.

    “On 30 September, Israeli military shot and killed a Palestinian man approximately 400 meters from the fence between the Gaza Strip and Israel,” Oxfam reported.

    /..
    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israeli-troops-enter-gaza-every-three-days-oxfam

    and so on, as before.

  699. “I am sure some Israeli fears are phobias – but I am not sure that most people would advocate dealing with phobias by telling them up front that they are being irrational and to stop worrying about them”

    In normal societies, people with irrational fears, paranoia, phobias, etc., are encouraged to seek treatment; those prone to violence because of their irrationality are normally locked-up, both for their own sake & to protect everybody else. That a State as a matter of policy deliberately fosters these irrational fears, is one that is actually de-legitimising itself.

    The fruits of these phobias are rampart Islamophobia, hatred of Arabs, and leads to family picnics on vantage points to watch death rain down of a trapped population, and to that Cast Lead massacre having over 90% support.

    I wonder how this “little bit fascist” lady would feel if she was told that groups of Germans had family picnics to watch & celebrate the smoke coming out of the concentration camps;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tjw8U0AcH4Q

  700. I believe that the World Bank report, referred to here by Jonathan Cook, has been posted earlier.

    The Disappearance of Palestine
    JONATHAN COOK

    [.]

    ‘Two recent images encapsulate the message behind the dry statistics of last week’s report by the World Bank on the state of the Palestinian economy.

    The first is a poster from the campaigning group Visualising Palestine that shows a photoshopped image of Central Park, eerily naked. Amid New York’s skyscrapers, the park has been sheared of its trees by bulldozers. A caption reveals that since the occupation began in 1967, Israel has uprooted 800,000 olive trees belonging to Palestinians, enough to fill 33 Central Parks.

    The second, a photograph widely published last month in Israel, is of a French diplomat lying on her back in the dirt, staring up at Israeli soldiers surrounding her, their guns pointing down towards her. Marion Castaing had been mistreated when she and a small group of fellow diplomats tried to deliver emergency aid, including tents, to Palestinian farmers whose homes had just been razed.

    The demolitions were part of long-running efforts by Israel to clear Palestinians out of the Jordan Valley, the agricultural heartland of a future Palestinian state. Ms Castaing’s defiance resulted in her being quietly packed off back to Europe, as French officials sought to avoid a confrontation with Israel.’

    [..]

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/10/17/the-disappearance-of-palestine-2/

  701. For the return of Habba and Free Speech 17 Oct, 2013 – 6:03 pm (in reference to his own question about the underlying motivation for the continual human rights abuses by the IDF and the State of Israel)

    ” “but there is clearly some rationality given past history of attacks on Israel – you cannot pretend they never happened”

    So the answer in part is yes – though quantifying how much fear is rational and how much is irrational would be a pretty impossible and pointless exercise.”

    Thanks. So …. Israel has a ‘partly’ rational need to fear Palestine.
    Do you think that is enough to justify the IDF and the State of Israel inflicting continual human rights abuses on Palestine?
    Remember, I’m not asking you to quantify anything, just whether, in your opinion, the ‘fear’ you have described is sufficient justification for those continual human rights abuses by the IDF and the State of Israel.

  702. Thanks for the links, AlcAnon. I’d be interested to watch them again myself. And I’ll pass them on – again.

  703. Guilty! but still so innocent, how pathetic can you get after being put in front of the facts for five weeks. I hope he gets what he has been asking for.

    http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/video_former_bbc_radio_norfolk_presenter_michael_souter_maintains_his_innocence_despite_being_found_guilty_of_child_sex_offences_1_2887222

    The same arguments and excuses as Saville uttered. Good to see so many of you still posting great stuff, thanks for the links Mary and Someone.

  704. Irrational fear, paranoia & victimhood are deliberately & cynically cultivated by the Israeli State

    Macky without the mass psychosis afflicting the ziofuckwits, they cannot exist. The circular debate that A Node has been patiently engaged in has yielded nothing new. The sole notion of “eternal victims” has been invoked to explain away the most vicious, murderous, venal, and corrupt society organised around the supremacists and genocidal imperatives which has been the backbone of the inception of the zionistan and its raison d’être to date.

    Fact that is lost in the melee is that psychotics are medicated, or isolated in hospitals and not given fucking fighter jets, helicopter gunships, tanks, howitzers, submarines nuclear bombs, hydrogen bombs, which is also out of the question (tropes the lot of it). Because the same fucking psychotics running around in fear of their own fucking shadows are also involved in writing out the statement of requirements/prescriptions. Hence no pills, but bullets and rockets and bombs to kill shoot, blow, maim Palestinians, and attack every fucking neighbouring country.

    The pathetic attempts of explaining away the vicious actions of the psychotic zifuckwits are the same excuses that a serial murdering bastard would be tabling in the way of justifying their horrific conduct. It is fucking pitiful.

  705. I am not communicating with Anon, posting as ‘for the return of Habba…… junk, as I consider him to be a troll. No food for him at all. Let him try one of the growing number of food banks which have arisen in these times of ConDem austerity.

    We heard today that getting a job is no guarantee to escape poverty. These words came from the revolting Alan Milburn who Cameron employed to report on child poverty as the ‘social mobility tsar’. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24553611

    He’s good on his own ‘mobility’ as you can see in the Wikipedia link. No irony.

    He was one of the many Health Secretaries in Blair and Brown’s NuLabour’s health construct which saw the introduction of private specialist treatment centres, enlarged the PFI construct leaving us with massive debts, established foundation trusts and polyclinics. They generally shafted the NHS. Then he jacked it in to spend more time with his family ie actually to join the private health sector, with a Bridgepoint directorship. He returned and then left again.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Milburn

  706. Aguirre (der Zoern Gottes)

    17 Oct, 2013 - 7:26 pm

    @ Ben Franklin

    “Allow me to ask; what would you do if the commentator requires a response with ceaseless nagging, in spite of one’s stated disinterest? I know the answer, but wish to hear it.”

    What I would do is suggest that the original poster should take responsibility for what he or she posted by answering the questions that post attracts.

    By doing that there would be no need to “nag” (if that could be called nagging)and other readers might actually be able to evaluate better the validity and/or strength of the original poster’s post.

    Good enough for you?

  707. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Oct, 2013 - 7:41 pm

    “Good enough for you?”

    Nope. The linchpin in that context is freedom of speech. There is no freedom to require someone else to speak.

    Alzo, the strength and validity of the original poster’s remarks can be debunked using whatever facts you can summon, without any need for the original poster’s inpiut. Now, that might get a response, but there is no guarantee.

  708. We heard today that getting a job is no guarantee to escape poverty.

    Mary don’t you remember what Clark said?

    “Jobs are easy to get, it is the income that is hard to find!”

    This was in response to the condescending wanker (anon) who was parroting the fuckwits in charge: “lazy people don’t want to work and want to draw dole”.

    The current slavery passed as “freedom to choose” is a horrific situation that is going ignored. the fucking funny news story was; the average wage is £470! These fuckwits are so out of it, that have no idea there are families living on £400.00 a month.

  709. Technicolour

    Interesting post about that poor schizophrenic and the snakes.

    I didn’t have a phobia about snakes, but I was afraid of them. In a private zoo in Scotland (2002?) I held a few, let them curl around my arm. I still have the photos of a young boa constrictor draped around my neck, and a 14ft python lying across my lap. But when the ‘keeper’ wanted me to let a tarantula sit on my hand I couldn’t do it.

    If it hadn’t been so near closing time and if we hadn’t been moving on the next day, I felt I would have succeeded. Just a little more time. I really regret now that I didn’t do it. Not for a ‘trophy photo’, but for my arachnophobia.

    I should be gone. BFN

  710. Der zornige Jakob

    Im Zorn warf Jakob einen Stein
    Dem Bruder nach, und traf sein Bein;
    Der mußte gleich zu Boden sinken,
    Und kann jetzt nicht mehr geh’n, nur hinken.
    Das ist dem Jakob herzlich leid,

    Und bitterlich er’s nun bereu’t
    Daß er so bös und zornig war.
    O, Kind, bedenke die Gefahr,
    In die der Zorn dich bringen kann!
    Sieht Jakob seinen Bruder an,
    So will ihm keine Freud’ mehr scheinen,
    So kann er anders nicht, als weinen.

    August Corrodi, 1876

  711. There is no such word as ‘Zoern’, its Zorn or Zornig.

  712. Macky They sat in picnic chairs watching the Cast Lead war on captive people in Gaza as you said. Strange though that I cannot find on Google images any of the many photos around at the time. I think the CAMERA/Israel Project have been busy.

    ~~~

    Nevermind. Yes I’m glad that Souter has been taken out of circulation. Also the coroner Crickmore who stole £2m from the estates of the dead. There are many more who have escaped justice but pleased that the W Yorks police are being investigated for their cosy relationship with Sa Vile.

  713. Aguirre (der Zorn Gottes)

    17 Oct, 2013 - 8:46 pm

    @ Nevermind – it was a typo, sorry.

  714. Hi Dreoilin

    That’s kind of you, glad you liked the book. Yes there are plenty of local references, but nothing that would stand in the way of comprehension methinks.

  715. You know why they need so much attention. Because there’s no fanaticism anymore, just mild disgust.

    If you’re a Catholic, you outgrow all the nonsense and then, all those lunatics in dresses fucking altarboys, What’s it got to do with you? It’s distasteful. Just lock the old pervs up.

    Same if you’re a Jew. You quickly outgrow the nonsense, then, What’s it got to do with you, these sweaty natives exterminating the weaker tribe in a radioactive wasteland? They’re an embarrassment. You don’t want to have to explain their antics when you’re trying to marry a beautiful, rich Nordic or Nilotic atheist. Just ship them to the Hague for trial already, get them out of your hair.

  716. technicolour

    17 Oct, 2013 - 9:05 pm

    “They sat in picnic chairs” – some people, a few people, how many people. Give me fucking strength, the ‘people’ are not to be judged by the horrific actions of a few. Because what would that make us, part of the nation who has caused up to a million deaths in Iraq?

  717. Aguirre (der Zorn Gottes)

    17 Oct, 2013 - 9:06 pm

    Ben Franklin

    “Alzo, the strength and validity of the original poster’s remarks can be debunked using whatever facts you can summon, without any need for the original poster’s inpiut. Now, that might get a response, but there is no guarantee.”

    You’re right, they can be – but not always. Let’s take a couple of examples.

    When we read posts about the price of a pair of shoes that the Duchess of Cambridge was wearing, or about 3 of the 8 Associate Justices of the Supreme Court being Jewish, or about new Cairperson of the FED being Jewish (as well as several of her predecessors), or about AJ Sonia Sotomayor liking Israel and having some (American) Jewish friends : I cannot debunk these comments with facts, because they are factually correct. But surely one is entitled to ask the posters for the relevance of these facts or what wider or larger conclusions the posters draw from them? In fact, one would have expected the posters to make their wider points as a matter of course – in the interests of rational discussion, be it said. The fact that they didn’t – and failed to do so even after prompting from others – must surely lead one to the following conclusions

    - either there is no wider conclusion and the comments were made innocently with the simple aim of providing information (information easily obtained elsewhere, by the way)

    - or the comment does draw a wider or broader conclusion but is, for some strange reasons, unwilling to share that conclusion with the other readers.

  718. Aguirre (der Zorn Gottes)

    17 Oct, 2013 - 9:08 pm

    in the penultimate line : “the commenter” (and not “the comment”).

  719. Aguirre (der Zorn Gottes)

    17 Oct, 2013 - 9:13 pm

    I’ll rephrase the whole of the second indent as follows:

    ” – or the commenter does draw a wider or broader conclusion for himself but is, let us say, too “coy” to share that conclusion with his readers”

  720. technicolour

    17 Oct, 2013 - 9:21 pm

    “But surely one is entitled to ask the posters for the relevance of these facts or what wider or larger conclusions the posters draw from them?”

    Yes, one is.

  721. Aguirre (der Zoern Gottes)

    17 Oct, 2013 - 9:22 pm

    @ Ben Franklin

    Probably not the right question to put to a man who writes about near asteroid misses (and govt attempts to cover up same) and conspiracies to murder journalists while driving their cars but still, I’ll try again :

    do you agree that posters should take responsibility for what they post – and that one of the forms this responsibility could take would be to respond to legitimate questions?

  722. technicolour

    17 Oct, 2013 - 9:25 pm

    Then ask Ben about what he posts, rather than snidely trying to discredit him. Have you looked at any of his research?

  723. “But surely one is entitled to ask the posters for the relevance of these facts or what wider or larger conclusions the posters draw from them?”

    Of course you are entitled to ask.

    Just as they are entitled to not reply.

    Freedom of speech is not freedom to dictate.

  724. technicolour

    17 Oct, 2013 - 9:28 pm

    Fred: yep. You muzt ansver our quvestions! Still, sometimes the quvestions have a point.

  725. der Zoern è bella

  726. La vita Gottes!

  727. “Fred: yep. You muzt ansver our quvestions! Still, sometimes the quvestions have a point.”

    We can all draw our conclusions from an absence of reply just as we can from a reply.

    You can’t have freedom to speak without freedom to not speak. It’s just not freedom.

  728. “Give me fucking strength, the ‘people’ are not to be judged by the horrific actions of a few.”

    Are you trying to out-juvenile Village ?

    My previous quote of 90% of Israeli support for the mass murder spree of trapped defenseless people, called “Cast Lead”, was an underestimate, as the figure was actually 94%, and even more amazing is that almost as many american jews supported it also ! Are they also suffering from irrational fear ?!

    http://israelmatzav.blogspot.fr/2009/02/american-jews-supported-operation-cast.html

  729. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Oct, 2013 - 9:38 pm

    “do you agree that posters should take responsibility for what they post – and that one of the forms this responsibility could take would be to respond to legitimate questions?”

    That’s a broad swath. Can you break it down for me? Responsibility for the consequences arising from one’s own comment? Maybe so, if some demonstrable harm can be connected to the expression/s. However, I see no responsibility to reply. Rhetorical questions, by their nature, do not require an answer, in fact, they are discouraged. Maybe what is ‘unsaid’ is more powerful than if one actually expresses. Regardless of the poster’s motives, the silent treatment is not proscribed.

  730. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Oct, 2013 - 9:39 pm

    A Node; You think it’s Hab?

  731. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Oct, 2013 - 9:41 pm

    If Aguirre asked me to put down my bong it would have been obvious.

  732. technicolour

    17 Oct, 2013 - 9:42 pm

    Right, Macky. No sources for the first ‘fact’ and for the second:

    *according to the ADL* American Jews were nearly as supportive as Israelis were.

    According to the ADL? Do you normally credit the ADL? Strange because it certainly appears to be defaming the average person. But let’s look at what it was based on:

    The telephone survey of 400 American Jewish adults was conducted between January 13-19, 2009 (with a hiatus Friday evening-Saturday for the Jewish Sabbath) for ADL by The Marttila Communications Group, and has a margin of error of +/-4.9%.

    Four hundred people. Yeah, good to go. You carry on with your demonisation of the commons: doesn’t work for me.

  733. technicolour

    17 Oct, 2013 - 9:43 pm

    Ben, course it’s Habbakuk. No arguments, snide stuff.

  734. technicolour

    17 Oct, 2013 - 9:45 pm

    or rather, any argument obscured by irresistible urge to snidety…

  735. Aguirre (der Zoern Gottes)

    17 Oct, 2013 - 9:48 pm

    @ Ben (and others)

    Of course there is no obligation on the original poster to answer. But it is not unreasonable to assume that if he doesn’t, he is either unable to or is unwilling to (and if the latter, it is reasonable to ask oneself why).

    “Rhetorical questions, by their nature, do not require an answer,..”

    OK, but let’s take a concrete example: when someone inform us that 3 of the 8 Associate Justices of the Supreme Court are Jewish, is it rhetoric to ask that someone why he is bringing this (easily ascertainable for anyone interested) fact to our attention?

  736. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Oct, 2013 - 9:49 pm

    Tech; I thought he was nearly bursting at his seams to avoid the tells. It won’t be long. He really has an issue with self-congtrol.

  737. Ben

    if it quacks like a duck …..

  738. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Oct, 2013 - 9:54 pm

    “that 3 of the 8 Associate Justices of the Supreme Court are Jewish,”

    That is a fact that can’t be disputed. I also have heard the current POTUS is black. I will now go flagellate myself for recognizing these facts.

  739. “Right, Macky. No sources for the first ‘fact’ and for the second:”

    So you cant’t use Google ?

    “The war provoked mixed reactions inside Israel, with the Jewish majority largely supporting it, and the Arab minority mostly opposing it. A poll taken on January 8, 2009, showed that 91% of the Jewish public supported the war, and 4% opposed it, while a separate poll conducted from January 4–6 showed a 94% approval of the war among Jews and 85% disapproval among Israeli Arabs.[474]”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_War#Reactions_in_Israel

    I still cant’t believe you try to equate Israeli Public support FOR Cast Lead with British Public OPPOSITION to the Iraq War !!

  740. technicolour

    17 Oct, 2013 - 9:56 pm

    yeah, shame. Because ‘self-control’ only exists as its opposite – ‘no control over self’ – would be interesting to find the pure opposite, loved the ‘this is why i hate the left’ diatribe from Anon a few pages ago; honesty always finds a resonance.

    (goes and reads PJ O’R for antidote)

  741. technicolour

    17 Oct, 2013 - 9:57 pm

    (last was to Ben @ 9.49)

  742. Aguirre (der Zoern Gottes)

    17 Oct, 2013 - 9:58 pm

    @ Ben (and others)

    Or the second example : Mrs Janet Yellen (aka Mrs George Akerlof) is Jewish and is widely known to be Jewish. Is it rhetoric to ask the person who took the trouble to post this fact for our attention whether he attached any particular significance to this fact?

    After all, if he thought that the fact was unimportance and irrelevant to anything wider, why did he bother? Just to let us know something that anyone who follows the news would probably know already?

  743. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Oct, 2013 - 9:59 pm

    “(goes and reads PJ O’R for antidote)”

    I can’t handle that kind of pain, but flagellation…..ok.

  744. Aguirre (der Zoern Gottes)

    17 Oct, 2013 - 10:03 pm

    @ Ben

    ““that 3 of the 8 Associate Justices of the Supreme Court are Jewish,”

    That is a fact that can’t be disputed. I also have heard the current POTUS is black. I will now go flagellate myself for recognizing these facts.”

    That’s my point, isn’t it. Nobody would post on here to tell us that Obama is black. So why should someone bother to post to tell us that 3 of the 8 AJs are Jewish? Where is the value-added?

  745. Seems George Osborne will be soon learning Cantonese as he gets well and truly into bed with the Chinese. Let’s pray that their nuclear reactors are safer than the railways they throw up. Weren’t we pioneers in nuclear power? So what happened ?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wenzhou_train_collision

  746. ” So why should someone bother to post to tell us that 3 of the 8 AJs are Jewish? Where is the value-added?”

    Does the expression “possible conflict of interest” mean anything to you Einstein ?

    Why do you think that it was normal policy for Governments not be appoint Jews as Ambassadors to Israel, a policy only very recently broken.

  747. It all gets weirder and weirder here. The name changes are rapid. What next?

    ‘Aguirre, the Wrath of God (German: Aguirre, der Zorn Gottes), known in the UK as Aguirre, Wrath of God, is a 1972 West German New Wave adventure art film written and directed by Werner Herzog. Klaus Kinski stars in the title role.’ Wikipedia

    Werner Herzog passed me by thankfully. I was working hard for a living in 1972.

    I can remember some of these events. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_in_the_United_Kingdom

  748. George Osborne will be soon learning Cantonese as he gets well and truly into bed with the Chinese.

    The king is dead, long live the king. Uncle Sam is broke and moribund in debt, the story of a kind of aristocratic uncle full of pomp and no dinner at the table. Those Chinese have to practice somewhere, and are busy lending us the money, of course if only they can build it too.

  749. Resident dissident

    17 Oct, 2013 - 10:30 pm

    Those that do irony must have appreciated how Mary changed the subject away from Palestine to oil leaks when asked to give her views on how we get from where we are to her preferred one State solution. Surely even her own supporters might be interested in her thoughts on the matter – or perhaps it is all some big secret to be kept from the trolls and their associates?

  750. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Oct, 2013 - 10:31 pm

    I’m thinking of changing my nym to Zardoz. Any questions?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zardoz

  751. Macky: “I still cant’t believe you try to equate Israeli Public support FOR Cast Lead with British Public OPPOSITION to the Iraq War !!”

    Think about it a bit. Where do you get those concepts/ideas/examples from?

  752. “A week ago in Gordon Gecko Moved To London, I wrote about the UK government’s various blindingly bright ideas for its economy, like for instance “a new fiscal mandate that will require further welfare cuts to build an overall budget surplus by the end of the next parliament”, with the 2013-14 budget deficit of £120 billion to fall to £43 billion in 2017-18. The money saved through the £77 billion in welfare cuts to the poor will be used to hand money to the corporate world to achieve the myopic pipedream of “100,000 more companies exporting and a doubling of our exports to £1 trillion by 2020″, the latter being an exact copy of Obama’s earlier goal for US exports, an equally unrealistic piece of cheap political yada yada.”

    http://theautomaticearth.com/Finance/nobel-winner-robert-shiller-demolishes-uks-help-to-buy-scheme.html

  753. Resident Dissident

    17 Oct, 2013 - 10:37 pm

    Macky
    I suppose on that basis you would argue against the appointment of Moslem judges or ambassadors to Islamic republics – but that would be racist wouldn’t it?

  754. “Think about it a bit. Where do you get those concepts/ideas/examples from?”

    Sorry, I know this is very blunt & therefore will come across as very rude, but you do not come across as the sharpest mind on this Blog, so I rather not engage deeply with you on anything as I think I will be wasting my time.

  755. Resident Dissident

    17 Oct, 2013 - 10:49 pm

    Ben
    Unless you are happy to be compared to the picture of Sean Connery in that link I would advise against the change of name – but thanks nevertheless for providing another argument against Scottish Nationalism.

  756. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Oct, 2013 - 10:55 pm

    RD; Sean Connery is Zed. I have higher aspirations.

  757. “I suppose on that basis you would argue against the appointment of Moslem judges or ambassadors to Islamic republics – but that would be racist wouldn’t it?”

    It doesn’t happen does it ? And it didn’t use to for Jews as Ambassadors to Israel, but in these recent openly Pro-Israel supporting Western Governments it has now, in fact it seems to be in fashion ! Can certainly be argued as being a racist policy, but a plausible defence could & was made on the grounds of safeguarding National Security.

    Re Judges, etc, when the Prime Ministers of Israel themselves, brag about the power of the “Jewish Lobby”, why are you surprised if people think it’s a relevant factor to mention that a person of influence or power, may have a possible conflict of interest ?

  758. “Those that do irony must have appreciated how Mary changed the subject away from Palestine to oil leaks when asked to give her views on how we get from where we are to her preferred one State solution.”

    I don’t see why, and I also don’t see why someone who points out a problem should have a solution – tho it would be interesting to hear from them abut it

  759. UK launches parliamentary inquiry into Guardian’s NSA leaks:

    Alan Rusbridger, the editor-in-chief of the Guardian, said that a “a man from Whitehall” confirmed to him that if the materials were not handed over or destroyed “the government would move to close down the Guardian’s reporting through a legal route – by going to court to force the surrender of the material” on which the Guardian was working.

    The ‘gate-keepers’ of the status quo, or the 1 or is it 2 maybe even 3 percent are increasingly symied, choked off by a pervasive collective, acute social conscience by those of us who have taken, made a run at, that small leap in sensibility; that natural process of evolving into a state of higher conscious. Some of us are thinking deeper in a meaningful synchronicity.

    We know for instance ‘mother’ earth is living in the same way we are; thinking, breathing, sensitive to association, conscious.

    We are certain those ‘truth vibrations’ are elucubrating, toiling away to magnify, amplify, disseminate and diffuse.

    This cannot be madness or psychosis, this is real balance.

    Consider this year, if you will, this sense of truth known to us, leaked, communicated and pushed to us. Think – Snowdon, Wikileaks, Princess Diana, Syria and sarin, the ‘Hellfire club’ MP’s child abuse Elm guest house, the BBC palace of the paedophiles, Jersey children’s home, 7/7, 9/11 and much more.

    These are not coincidences. They come into the light through the medium of a shift in your consciousness.

    That may seem subjective to some so I’ll be a bit more pragmatic.

    We are made aware of our democracy. Yet freedom is restricted, justice is exhausting civil rights and biased towards the elite establishment (i.e. ‘established’ so advanced revision is unnecessary). Democracy is mute.

    We are also aware the British ‘party system’ is padded, underhanded, treacherous and unprincipled. We have no choice. The ballot sheet should have a box, ‘none of the above’ – that would fix it. The system has become a handful of tight seats; the election decided on the marginals with strings pulled and controlled by Multi-nationals, Banks, Hedge-fund bosses, multi-billionaire financiers – billionaire! That is 1000 million, absurd and ludicrous (as is $17 trillion in debt – laughable).

    The people who represent us are in it for themselves. They work together against us.

    Another revealing was when the psychopath, bully and spin doctor, Alastair Campbell got involved in the Ed Milliband Marxist father debate. That bastard Campbell ‘sexed up’ a WMD dossier that helped murder thousands of innocent people in Iraq. Pregnant women lost their babies, feisty children lost their arms, their legs, their sight.

    Alistair Campbell – the 2am telephone (Tony asked me to tell you this) fiend/troll/monster is responsible for that Milliband theatre, that drama, that ugly scrap of propaganda to gain public sympathy.

    So why vote? You can only win by connecting, by evolving.

    Soon the dinosaurs will be screaming behind you. Please turn just once and summon, a gesture, an invite.

    Just once then leave to expire. Their souls will have been sold to self, and self is subjective – an illusion.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H2wr0khnJA

    Three thousand innocent people murdered by closed ears, deaf eyes and autonomous autocratic minds.

  760. “Re Judges, etc, when the Prime Ministers of Israel themselves, brag about the power of the “Jewish Lobby”, why are you surprised if people think it’s a relevant factor to mention that a person of influence or power, may have a possible conflict of interest ?2

    Because people are people. and your racism is risible, just as much as if the word ‘Jewish’ had been replaced by the word ‘Muslim’

  761. holocau$t.

    They, he, she, nobody love loves US…, il…, us…

    “May you die garbage Arabs, amen!”

    Please disgust,discus the despicable and extremely flatulent, Laotian striped cow in a peer-reviewed comparison to the shitty, legless Amazon diamond frog, for a more balanced few, phew… view on the UPS, NFL, USA, UPS… I/P conscript, cock, condom… concept.

  762. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Oct, 2013 - 11:14 pm

    Indeedy, Mark. GG recently announced he was leaving Guardian to establish an indy network, but they had reached the limits of their autonomy.

    The raising of consciousness is a major fly in the ointment of control and command central. The scales removed from the eyes of the Public Apostle Paul is archetypal. Your optimism is worthy of global sharing.

  763. Ben
    I once lived in a town in North Wales called ‘Penmaenmawr’.
    That translates to ‘big stone head’.

  764. @ Technicolour,

    Q:… tho it would be interesting to hear from them abut it…

    R: Ahhhh, you couldn’t keep that Canadian accent under wraps, eh?

  765. A Node,

    Q: ‘Penmaenmawr’.

    R: Sounds worse than a pants full of popping hemorrhoids or a testicular acupuncture treatment.

  766. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Oct, 2013 - 11:25 pm

    “That translates to ‘big stone head’.”

    Coincidentally, that’s exactly what I was going for, A Node. I want to be the guy behind the curtain with the big stone head. Any questions?

  767. PS sorry for being rude.

  768. Land of the fucking free! Yehap I should cocoa too!

    Now they are stumping on the poor for any which excuse they can. Ohio woman charged in theft of $2.87 from fountain

    We are following the disastrous policies of “reducing welfare” (now it is the turn of the old age pensioners) to better our economic productivity (ie make good all the money that the fucking banksters stole and gambled away), fuck the economic progress that cannot afford to provide for the fucking countries own citizens.

  769. “Because people are people. and your racism is risible, just as much as if the word ‘Jewish’ had been replaced by the word ‘Muslim’”

    If it was anybody else (except of course your juvenile soul mate Villager), I would respond, unpick & show that your nonsense is nonsense, but I imagine that my reply, as most other things seemingly tend to do, will go over your head, and as I’ve already made clear I have very little time for fools or trolls who cannot even fabricate a half reasonable point to make; so feel free to carry on sticking to what you do best & so often here, namely hysterical smearing, and charging at the demons that only exist in your challenged little mind.