World Domination

by craig on May 3, 2014 3:58 pm in Uncategorized

Add together the cities of Donetsk, Kharkiv and Lugansk and you don’t reach the economic output of Dundee.  World domination it isn’t.  Unfortunately both in the Kremlin and on Capitol Hill they, and their satraps, think it is.  Neither side cares at all about the millions of ordinary people in the zone of potential conflict.

The spiral of death in Ukraine is very worrying.  Following the tragic deaths in Odessa, the ball is very much in Putin’s court.  His bluff has very much been called.  We will now learn whether he was stoking clashes in Eastern Ukraine and massing forces on his border in order to give a pretext for invasion – which pretext he now has – or in order to destabilize and intimidate Kiev into moving away from relationships with the EU.

This has been a discussion of the deaf even more within intellectual circles in the West than between Washington and the Kremlin, where at least the Machiavellians understand full well what they are doing.  But their followers either, on the one hand, deny that there are any far right elements on the Ukrainian side or any CIA assistance, or alternatively deny that there are many millions of ordinary Ukrainians who genuinely want to be at peace in their own country and move towards the EU.  They either claim that all the separatists are Russian agents and deny the genuine minority population which yearns for the Soviet Union or Russia, or they deny the existence of Russian agents and special forces in Ukraine, and that most of the Russian nationalists are every bit as right wing and appalling as the equivalent tendency on the Ukrainian side.

First, some history.  The Ukrainian people really do exist.  They have been a subjugated people for centuries, most lastingly by the great Polish-Lithuanian  Empire and then by the Russian Empire.  That does not mean they did not exist.  Consider this: until 1990 there had not been an independent Polish state for over two hundred years, except for a fleeting twenty years between the two world wars.  Yet nobody doubts the Poles are a real nation.  I shan’t start on Scotland again …

None of modern Ukraine was Russian until the 18th century, when the expansion of the Russian empire and decline of the Polish took in these new colonies. As Putin famously remarked, it was called New Russia.  Yes, Vladimir, note it was New.  That is because it was a colony. Just like New York.  Because it was called New Russia gives you no more right to it than the Channel Islands have to New Jersey.  Ukraine had been Russian seven hundred years before its 18th century reconquest, but that population had migrated to Muscovy.

The expansion of the Russian Empire was exactly contemporary with the expansion of the British and American Empires, and other bit players like the French.  Like most of the American, most of the Russian Empire was a contiguous land mass.  The difference between the Russian and British Empires, on the one hand, and the American Empire on the other, was that the Russians and British did not commit genocide of the existing populations.  The difference between the Russian and the British Empires is that the British gave almost all of theirs back in the post-colonial period (a process that needs to be urgently completed). Russia gave back much of her Empire at the fall of the Soviet Union, but still retained a very great deal more than the British.  It is to me inarguable that, in a historical perspective, Putin is attempting to recover as much of the Russian Empire as possible, including but by no means solely by the annexation of Crimea and his actions in Ukraine.

Crimea, incidentally, had maintained its own independent existence as the last remnant of the Mongol Horde right up until the 19th century.  Despite the Russian colonisation of Crimea in the 19th century, it still had a majority Tatar population until the 1940′s, when Stalin tried his hand at genocide on them.  The Tatars were branded Nazis.  Opponents of the Russian Empire are always “Nazis” or “Jihadists”.  The deportation of the Tatars from Crimea was only twenty years before the British did the same genocide to a smaller people in Diego Garcia.  I call for the restitution of both.  Those who call for the restitution of one and not the other are appalling hypocrites.

Equally hypocritical are those who call for a referendum on Russian union for East Ukraine, but not for referenda on independence for Dagestan and Chechnya.  It is an irony insufficiently noted, that in Russia to call or campaign for the separation of any part of the state is a crime punishable by up to 22 years’ imprisonment.  There are over 7,000 people from the Caucasus imprisoned under that law.

There is absolutely no movement among the large minority Russians of the Baltic States to rejoin Mother Russia, because living conditions in the EU are just so much better.  As I have blogged before, it is undeniably true that living conditions for ordinary people in Poland have vastly improved as a result of EU membership, and are much better than in Ukraine – or Russia.

GDP per capita figures for Russia look quite good, but do not give a true reflection of living standards because of astonishing levels of inequality of wealth.  This is very bad in the West, and getting much worse rather rapidly, but is nowhere near as bad as in Russia which is the most viciously capitalist state in the world, made worse by its commodity dependency.  The Russian economy is completely non-diversified, manufacturing and services are miniscule and it is overwhelmingly a raw commodity exporter in energy, metals, grain etc.  That leads to extreme concentration of profit and a lack of employment opportunity.  Combine that with mafia state corruption and you have the oligarchs’ paradise.  Russia is a gangster state.  On top of which, if I were a Russian who campaigned against the Russian government in the same way that I do against  my own, I would be dead.

The desire of ordinary Ukrainians to join the EU one day, and move closer to it now, is understandable and indeed commendable.  It was also the desire of Yanukovich.  Those who claim Western pressure on Yanukovich forget – or choose to ignore - that Yanukovich’s government had actually, quite independently and voluntarily, negotiated the EU co-operation agreement and were on the point of signing it, when Yanukovich was summoned to Moscow by Putin and informed that if they signed the agreement, the energy supplies to Ukraine would immediately be cut off in mid-winter and debt called in.

That is a fact.  It was not illegal for Putin to do that; it was perhaps even legitimate for those who believe in a Machiavellian approach to great power politics.  Yanukovich temporized, between a rock and a hard place.  Ukraine seemed to be at a key moment of  balance, hung between the EU and Russia. The capital being in West Ukraine and overwhelmingly ethnic Ukrainian, pro-EU crowds started to build up.  Then things started to get wildly out of control.

Were western governments encouraging pro-western groups in Ukraine?  Yes, that’s their job.  Did this include covert support? Yes.  Were the Russians doing precisely the same thing with their supporters?  Yes, that’s their job too.  Did the Americans spend 5 billion dollars on covert support?  Of course not.

Victoria Nuland claimed in a speech America had put 5 billion dollars into Ukraine.  I used to write those kind of speeches for British ministers.  First you take every bit of money given by USAID to anything over a very long period, remembering to add an estimate for money given to international projects including Ukraine.  Don’t forget to add huge staff costs and overheads, then something vast for your share of money lent by the IMF and EBRD, then round it up well.  I can write you a speech claiming that Britain has given five billion dollars to pretty well anywhere you claim to name.

The problem is that both the left and right have again, equal but opposite motives for believing Nuland’s bombast about the extent of America’s influence on events.  I have been in this game.  You can’t start a revolution in another country.  You can affect it at the margins.

A military coup you certainly can start.  One thing we don’t really know nearly enough about is what happened at the end, when Yankovich had to flee.  The Maidan protestors would never have caused a government to fall which retained full control of its army.  The army can fail the rulers in two ways.  First is a revolutionary movement among normal soldiers – the French revolution model.  Second is where the troops remain disciplined but follow their officers in a military coup.  The latter is of course a CIA speciality.  More evidence is needed, but if this is the second model, it is unusual for it not to result in military control of government.  Egypt is the obvious current example of a CIA backed coup.

After Yanukovich we had entered the world domination game.  Putin seemed to have lost.  The annexation of Crimea was a smart move by Putin in that game, because there probably is a genuine small majority of the population there who would like to join Russia.  I have no doubt whatsoever that Putin himself does not believe the 93% for a moment.  As I said, the Machiavellian players of world domination are realistic; it is their purblind followers on either side who buy their propaganda.

The Kiev government and the West should have conceded Crimea before Putin moved his troops into it.  The sensible thing for the new Kiev government to have done would have been to offer a referendum in Crimea itself, under its own auspices.  That would have got the most hardline pro-Russian voters out of the country for good. But by that time, everyone had gone into Macho mode, which is where we still are.

None of the remaining provinces would opt to join Russia given the choice.  There is no shortage of existing and historic opinion poll evidence on that.   Crimea was the only province with an ethnic Russian majority.  The Eastern provinces have Russian speaking majorities, but most are ethnic Ukrainian. I base ethnicity here purely on self-identification in census (and, as I have repeatedly explained, absolutely everybody in the former Soviet Union knows precisely what is asked in the questions of Gradzvanstvo and Narodnosch). Just as some Welsh people speak English, some Ukrainians speak Russian but do not consider themselves Russian.  Putin’s frequent references to the Russian-speaking peoples coming back to Russia are as sinister as if we started talking of re-uniting all the English speaking people in the world.

As almost always with colonies, the minority ethnic Russian populations in the East of Ukraine are more concentrated in urban areas.  Hence it has been possible in regional capitals to mobilise gangs of disaffected and unemployed Russian young men (in view of Ukraine’s basket case economy there are plenty), and with a slight stiffening of Russian forces take control of town centres.  There is a significant minority, and possibly a majority in town centres, willing to support.  It is, I think, extremely important to understand that the thugs on both sides are very unpleasant.  I have the particular experience of relations with a lot of Uzbeks, and the incidence of racial attacks by Russian nationalist thugs within Russia itself is absolutely horrifying and almost completely unreported.  The swastika is a popular symbol among young macho men throughout all of former Eastern Europe including Russia.  I absolutely guarantee you that an equally significant proportion of the pro-Russians who have been attacking anyone who tries to show support for Ukraine within Eastern Ukrainian cities, are no more and no less right wing, racist and vicious than the appalling Pravy Sektor thugs included on the other side.  We have plenty within the EU – there is a serious problem, for example, with the official encouragement given to commemorations of pro-Nazi forces within the Baltic states which often have a distinctly neo-Nazi tinge.

Putin’s campaign of controlling the urban centres appears to have gone wrong in Odessa, which is simply too large for the numbers of available young men armed with baseball bats to take control.  The pro-Russians were badly beaten in precisely the same street fighting they had been winning elsewhere.  The culmination of this was the terrible fire and deaths. My expectation is there will not be many women, children or old people among the dead, but also there will not be many non-Ukrainian nationals.  I expect these will prove to have been local Russian young men.

Putin now has a real problem.  His own rhetoric has indicated that he will sweep in and defend these Russians, but there is one thing anyone with half a brain should have worked out by now.  The ruling 1%, the ultra-wealthy, in both Russia and the West are so interconnected with each other that they are playing the game of world domination while trying at the same time to make sure nobody super-rich really loses his money.  Hence the strange obviously bogus sanctions regimes. Real stock market disruption and confiscation of corrupt assets would be difficult to avoid if the tanks start rolling in earnest.  We may be saved from utter disaster by the sheer scale of global corruption, which is a strange conclusion.

I would like to think the awful deaths of the last few days would lead both sides to step back from the brink.  The time has come for a peacekeeping force.  Negotiations should be held urgently to make the Kiev interim government more inclusive of opposition elements from the East – and they must oust the far right at the same time.  The UN Security Council should then send in UN peacekeepers, which must include both Russian and western forces in close integration, to keep the peace while genuine elections are held.  I can see no other way forward which does not risk disaster.

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469 Comments

  1. ‘None of the remaining provinces would opt to join Russia given the choice.’

    Hmm, agree with most of your analysis, despite its shaky ground and changing facts, except for Transnistria, a smidgeon of a strip country next to Moldova which is yearning to be in the Russian fold again.

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/transnistria-soviet-leftover-or-russian-foothold-in-europe-a-965801.html

  2. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    3 May, 2014 - 4:37 pm

    Craig; If global avarice is the only hope, should we be concerned about how Western influence might profit from Putin’s demise? Surely they have economic interests which fall on one side and not the other?

  3. Craig,

    Odessa not Donetsk was where the 40 or so died inside the Trades Union building.

    Here’s the Russian version

    http://rt.com/news/156592-odessa-activists-burnt-alive/

    Odessa slaughter: How vicious mob burnt Ukraine anti-govt activists alive

    Dozens of people died in flames in Odessa, when radicals set ablaze the local House of Trade Unions with anti-government protesters blocked inside. The city is now in mourning for those who died, suffocated in smoke or had to jump out of windows.

    What triggered the tragedy were violent clashes, which erupted on Friday afternoon between two rival rallies in Ukraine’s port-city of Odessa.

    Around 1,500 supporters of the Kiev authorities, accompanied by aggressive fans of the local football club, Chernomorets, tried to march through the center of the city chanting “Glory to Ukraine,” “Death to enemies,” “Knife the Moskals [derogatory for Russians].” Some of the people in the group were wearing ultra-nationalist Right Sector movement insignia, were armed with chains and bats and carried shields.

    Several hundred anti-government activists eventually confronted the procession. Fighting broke out as a result, with members of the rival groups throwing stones, Molotov cocktails and smoke grenades at each other and at police. The pavements were spattered with blood.

    Neither side is “innocent” but watching the scenes live yesterday was disturbing. Only the Ukrainian Fire Brigade came out of this looking good. If it hadn’t been for them going in there would have been a lot more “pro-Russian” dead.

  4. Ben

    I don’t think global avarice is the only hope at all. Just noting a passing irony of the situation. I think that those who control the west have no particular interest in Putin’s demise – the present system of raking it in has been working pretty well for all of them.

    Please put you other comment on the thread on that exact topic.

  5. Alconon

    Thanks – amended. I fear these mental slips come with old age! I should say that Russian report is pretty compatible with what I wrote – pro-Russian group taking control of town centre in City which was too big for them to intimidate. As I said, I think the sex and age profile of the victims will give a decent idea of whether they were peaceful demonstrators or not. I much doubt it. Of course the Russian report will say all the Russians were peaceful and all the Ukrainians Nazis. That is no more true than its opposite, which is also not true.

  6. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    3 May, 2014 - 4:53 pm

    Yes, Craig. Posted that here in error.

    So Western sanctions are just window dressing for hometown consumption? You see no Neo-Con backstage but salient and influential power?

  7. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    3 May, 2014 - 4:55 pm

    AA; regional and ethnic hatred with attendant baggage, or was there biased assistance from the Odessa police influenced by Kyev?

  8. All I can say Ben is that the Odessa police left both sides to each other initially. Once it became clear that a tragedy was unfolding firemen went up ladders into the building and rescued people from upper floors. As they were brought to the ground they were then set upon by a violent mob with baseball bats or similar. The police stood across the street and watched as the firemen attempted to protect those rescued and get them to ambulances. Eventually (maybe after an hour or so) the police did intervene.

    The vast majority of Maidan supporters may be peaceful but there were one hell of a lot who weren’t in Odessa yesterday. There were three live streams from different broadcasters covering the event live (including Ukrainian television) but the event was generally ignored by western news channels as it occurred.

  9. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    3 May, 2014 - 5:11 pm

    Like I’ve said, we need an official program of the players, AA. Finding the good guys is like the search for MH 370………..I got nothin’. :)

  10. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    3 May, 2014 - 5:12 pm

    Oh, except the firefighters; heroes unsung.

  11. That’s very good Craig. I think both William Hague and Catherine Ashton would give you a pass on that – and maybe even Victoria Nuland and her PNAC husband Robert Kagan – at least you weren’t too hard on them. But I only partially buy it, and I think you are completely omitting some very important history, that is totally relevant to the situation in the Ukraine.

    My perception of what is happening is just an extension to the globalist agenda that started around 30 years ago, and was massively accelerated immediately after 9/11 with Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, and now the Ukraine – with Europe next in the target line for total collapse and chaos.

    The US neocons directly descendant from Trotsky and infiltrated and merged with the US Military Industrial Complex – are pursuing an agenda of complete world domination and control, and causing complete and utter chaos, poverty, civil war and collapse in numerous parts of the world concurrently is an integral part of their long held plans. They are actually goading Putin to intervene in Ukraine, and by every means possible force the cut off of Russian energy (the largest exporter of energy in the World) to Europe – with China next in line, after Europe has been decimated by total energy collapse.

    European politicians, instead of standing up to these threats to their own populations, appear to be under some kind of satanic control by these monsters across the pond, who not only could not care less about the people in the Ukraine, they also couldn’t care less about the people in Europe, or for that matter the people in the USA, who are becoming just as much victims as the rest of the world, as all their wealth producing jobs are moved to third world countries to maximise profits for the shareholders of the most powerful corporations.

    Tony

  12. “massing forces on his border” – said which western propaganda outlet exactly? The same one that said Saddam was amassing troops on the border of Saudi perchance?

  13. “British did not commit genocide of the existing populations.” – there’s a fair few million hungry Indians that might like to pick a bone or two about that statement.

  14. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    3 May, 2014 - 5:36 pm

    Does the West really want a peaceful resolution for all sides in Ukraine? There seems to be some inconsistency.

    http://rt.com/op-edge/talks-ukraine-west-russia-376/

    “On the one hand, they are posturing as if they want to be dealmakers, as if they want to broker some kind of a peace. On the other hand, not only did they continue to support the illegal government in Kiev and continue to make very inflammatory comments regarding Russia and their purported role in what’s happening in Eastern Ukraine. At the same time we are also seeing that the US really quite unsure about what their policy is going to be.

    The visit from the CIA Director Brennan which was made very clear to the media through back channels was not just an advisory role as the Western media has portrayed it, but he has given the insurances quite obviously to the so-called government in Kiev that the US would back them in their so-called antiterrorist operation in the East. So much of the conflict that we’ve seen happening in Donetsk and in the other regions in the East is direct byproduct of the dual US so-called diplomacy, or what I would call, diplomacy and subversion.

  15. Ben,

    Take what Russia Today says on Ukraine. Take what Fox News says. The truth won’t lie in the middle, you will rather be acquiring a pile of shit.

  16. Good to see some straight talking.

  17. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    3 May, 2014 - 6:05 pm

    Craig

    That was a tour d’horizon magistral and said all that really needs to be said. Even the experienced friends of Vladimir will find it difficult to contest very much and still retain a shred of credibility. Congratulations.

  18. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    3 May, 2014 - 6:11 pm

    Craig; You can’t manufacture bellicose threats from Obama and NATO. They are inconsistent firebombs on gasoline. That’s not diplomacy, it’s preparation

  19. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    3 May, 2014 - 6:12 pm

    BTW

    “..living conditions for ordinary people in Poland have vastly improved as a result of EU membership, and are much better than in Lithuania – or Russia.”
    ___________-

    I think you meant to say “Ukraine” rather than “Lithuania”?

  20. Yesterday’s Guardian anti Putin editorial.

    Ukraine: Kiev’s eastern question

    Vladimir Putin has taken Russia back to pre-Soviet nationalist attitudes. Tanks may yet roll across the Ukrainian border
    The Guardian, Friday 2 May 2014
    http://www.theguardian.com/global/2014/may/02/editorial-ukraine-kievs-eastern-question?CMP=twt_gu

  21. LWTC247
    The British Empire certainly carried out atrocities in India. There is no respectable argument it carried out genocide. Same is true of Russian expansion in Asia.

  22. “Vladimir Putin has taken Russia back to pre-Soviet nationalist attitudes. ”

    I think that’s what Alec Salmond meant when he said Putin had restored Russian pride. Now we’re about to see the consequences.

  23. Completely agree with this post and interesting to hear some of the history. The Russian government and pro-Russians in Ukraine are churning out propaganda just as much as the Kiev government and their US allies are.

    Mixed Russian and NATO peacekeeping forces with a common mandate and duty to prevent fighting sounds like a good solution – worried that instead the Russians will try to be the only ones deployed in the East and South which they want to control and that NATO will deploy only in the West.

  24. Ben

    Again, the stupidity of the completely one-sided. Russia has made continued threats to intervene militarily in Ukraine. Only one foreign country has actually sent in troops. Why do you see evil only on one side?

  25. Duncan,

    Yes, important that they are mixed down at the tactical level.

  26. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    3 May, 2014 - 6:29 pm

    ” Why do you see evil only on one side?” I think this is the intersection of pov’s. One side only sees Putin as bad, seemingly giving a pass to the fascists. I guess you’re right, there is no middle ground.

  27. A long post, Craig. It deserves to be studied before composing a detailed response.

    For the time being, given your interest in BBC propaganda try the headline “Pro-Russian anger at Odessa deaths” for size. Why “Pro-Russian”? Does that lessen the anger that should be felt? It is only “Pro-Russian” so there’s no need for anyone else to get worked up about it? These people were deliberately torched after seeking shelter in a trade union office.

    Brownshirts like setting fire to things, as well as breaking shops windows.

    A final thought, for now: Many of the banners in the east are anti-Nazi. The people who live there know who the enemy is. The army that did the bulk of the fighting in the final assault on Berlin in April 1945 were Ukrainian divisions. And now there are Nazis in their own Government. Excuse them if they’re a little…testy with that.

  28. “Washington has no intention of allowing the crisis in Ukraine to be resolved.”

    Elites love chaos.

    “Having failed to seize the country and evict Russia from its Black Sea naval base, Washington sees new opportunities in the crisis.”

    “The Wolfowitz doctrine justifies Washington’s dominance of all regions. It is consistent with the neoconservative ideology of the US as the “indispensable” and “exceptional” country entitled to world hegemony.

    Russia and China are in the way of US world hegemony. Unless the Wolfowitz doctrine is abandoned, nuclear war is the likely outcome.”

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article38396.htm

  29. Pussy whipped

    3 May, 2014 - 6:42 pm

    [Black Jelly - banned]

  30. “Here’s a brief excerpt from an interview with Stephen Cohen, professor of Russian studies and history emeritus at New York University on Monday on PBS Newshour. Cohen helps to clarify what is really going on viv a vis the US and Russia:

    “What we’re watching today is the worst kind of history being made, the descent of a new Cold War divide between West and East in Europe, this time not in faraway Berlin, but right on Russia’s borders through Ukraine. That will be instability and the prospect of war for decades to come for our kids and our grandchildren. The official version is that Putin is to blame; he did this. But it simply isn’t true. This began 20 years ago when Clinton began the movement of NATO toward Russia, a movement that’s continued.

    …the fundamental issue here is that, three or four years ago, Putin made absolutely clear he had two red lines…One was in the former Soviet republic of Georgia. (Putin would not allow NATO in Georgia) The other was in Ukraine. We crossed both. You got a war in Georgia in 2008, and you have got today in Ukraine because we, the United States and Europe, crossed Putin’s red line.” (PBS News Hour)

    There’s no doubt who is to blame for the present conflict in Cohen’s mind. It’s Washington.”

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37878.htm

  31. Only one foreign country has actually sent in troops.

    Great to see where Craig Murray stands. No credence or even consideration to be given to evidence of US/Nato subversion in Ukraine, the alleged training of Neo-Nazi thugs in Poland, evidence of Western mercenaries in Ukraine. No, this is all Putin’s doing.

    How pathetic can a phony analyst be?

    The reality is that Russia has rebuilt its economy, making Europe heavily dependent on Russia in the process. This poses a dire threat to US Hegemony as spelled out by the Project for the New American Century, and as expressed in the Wolfowitz doctrine:

    “Our first objective is to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival, either on the territory of the former Soviet Union or elsewhere, that poses a threat on the order of that posed formerly by the Soviet Union. This is a dominant consideration underlying the new regional defense strategy and requires that we endeavor to prevent any hostile power from dominating a region whose resources would, under consolidated control, be sufficient to generate global power.”

    What we’re seeing is not Putin being an arse-hole, we’re seeing the onset of WWIII, instigated by the US with the aim of destroying both Russia and China as threats to American hegemony.

    China, although now the largest economy in the world, is to be dealt with after Russia, since Russia poses a threat to US domination of Europe. If the Europeans decide to admit Russia to the European home, as Gorbachev assumed they would, then the US Empire is finished. It is thus vital to the US to instigate a conflict between Russian and Western Europe. A third European civil war will keep the American Empire safe for another generation.

  32. Mike/Ben/Herbie/Mary,

    I read what Craig wrote, and some of it was obviously true, but I thought he still has his old Establishment hat on, despite the appalling way he was treated – but I can understand that too. So I couldn’t immediately respond to it, and instead went for a cycle ride, and wrote my response in my head on my bike.

    [cut. Stay on topic]

  33. Refereeeee!!

    Surely it’s totally in order that a long term and cherished poster like Tony be introduced to newer posters.

    He’s allowed to know to whom he’s talking.

    What’s wrong with that?

  34. CanSpeccy,

    Excellent post. Good to see you are still in fine form…though “How pathetic can a phony analyst be?” was a bit strong…and I think he actually believes what he writes, so it may simply be a case of cognitive dissonance despite his obvious intelligence…

    I don’t know who this guy is…but its the best thing I have read this week…and I agree with almost all of his theories and speculation – especially his Snowden bit – well worth a read…

    http://linguistic-determinism-art-language.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/empiric-myopia.html

    Extract

    “To me the events appear to be an extortion operation against the upcoming Russian and Chinese energy deal as well as mitigating cooperation between Europe and Russia. The Empire will not allow serious cooperation in Eurasia that can challenge them. That means both Russia and Europe as well as between Russia and China. They want to mitigate Russian success in the one area vital to their relationships, energy –ergo, the Ukrainian crisis and its provocations against Europe and the island disputes and its provocations against China.

    This appears to be a move by the empire against Russia, Europe and China that are posing an existential threat to it by challenging the petrodollar. The flailing empire has chosen the Samson Option to ensure that the Russian-Chinese energy agreement and Russian-European gas deals continue to use the petrodollar. You can take the empire down, but at a heavy price.

    The implication of the Ukrainian crisis, in context to Europe is, if you do not trade in petrodollars, we will have the pipelines destroyed, start a war that will eventually drag the rest of Europe against Russia and most likely another world war! This answers why Europe is keeping a low profile, in the media. Behind the curtain?”

    Tony

  35. I’m struggling to agree with much of this -if Putin is trying to regain the Russian empire then he isn’t doing great. So far he has taken two small chivs out Georgia and Crimea. Crimea was never happy about waking up in Ukraine – I remember rumblings about more autonomy going back to the 90s.
    A quick look at the map of Russian contraction and NATO expansion gives a more realistic picture – it is the West that is playing the world domination game and, by and large, winning. Putin is playing catch up and grabbing a few bits here and there.
    The situation in East Ukraine is more complex than one of ethnicity – the Russian speakers do not necessarily want to become part of Russia, equally they are fearful of the new regime in Kiev. A good article on the matter is here:
    http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/04/marx-last-stand-eastern-ukraine-20144229655276774.html

    As I see it there are four groupings in Ukraine:
    i) the oligarchs (aka gangsters) who have held power on a rotating basis from independence. They become politicians merely to facilitate their economic plunder. Almost nobody in Ukraine likes them or wants to see them continue in power.
    ii) the Maidan crowd (falsely christened Euro-Maidan) who were primarily against the corruption of the oligarchs and are no more pleased with the current interim government than they were with Yanukovich. We shoudl note that they are still protesting although the Western media has chosen to forget about them now ‘their bastards’ are in power.
    iii) the Right Sector – an unpleasant group from mainly Western Ukraine who were the violent shock troops in Kiev that eventually toppled the Yanukovich regime with covert and overt backing from the EU/US.
    iv) the eastern ‘separatists’ who probably backed Yanukovich but also are feeling persecuted by the banning of Russian as an official language.

    Ukraine will by no means be ‘saved’ by association with the EU – more likely they will lose out massively by being shackled to IMF loans and adjustment programs which will result in large scale privatisations unemployment and austerity in an already impoverished nation. Those in the east seem to appreciate it – those in the west are probably too stupid to realise it or feel that they can use EU help to achieve their own aims.
    Poland is the exception to the rule – most of the former eastern block countries have had a really tough time since joining the EU.

    All in all, the West initiated this mess and are likely to regret doing so. Putin is not helping matters but has his own, quite valid, reasons for doing so.

  36. Resident Dissident

    3 May, 2014 - 7:48 pm

    The analysis is absolutely spot on – the only points I would add are that there are an lot of similarities between ordinary Russians and Ukrainians – and mixed Ukrainian and Russian families are a common feature in both countries. The differences between Russians and Ukrainians should not be exaggerated, and would ideally be kept at the level of jokes and humour. Yes I believe that Ukrainians should rightly be members of the European family – but I also believe that the Russian should be as well.

    Everyone should also be very conscious of the game that Putin is playing – he is more than aware that the economy and particularly him and his fellow kleptocrats have enjoyed a long streak of luck because of a period of high oil and other commodity prices, and the benefits of increases in the efficiency in producing oil (which were incidentally largely initiated by Yukos when Khodorovsky) was in charge) and that such a period is likely to come to an end. Given that this is likely to mean that this will result in even less trickling down to the ordinary people, and because all those decent people with liberal and democratic views are becoming a much more sizeable and noisy minority, so rather than money he is now resorting to playing the nationalist card as a means of retaining power. This is the reason why Putin is terrified of further colour revolutions, why he took the Crimea, why he cracking down on dissidents and the internet, using every opportunity he can to be seen standing up to the West – while at the same time cutting back pension, health and education benefits for ordinary Russian. Putin has to be stood up to now not just for the benefit of his neighbours but for that of Russians, who ultimately always pay the biggest price for the dictatorial behaviour of some of their rulers.

  37. My comment is awaiting moderation – I shall take that as a compliment.

    [it was held for containing a spam-blocking keyword]

  38. Just because it’s early Summer and we have temporarily forgotten how cold our winters can be, little or no thought is being given to European dependency on Russia for its gas supplies. I understand that Germany will not allow any Western military action to take place.

  39. Hey – We’ve got a referee on the pitch…

    Which is great…

    It is Craig Murray’s website, and he can see what has happened to all his previous moderators…

    Well done Craig – Keep it up…

    Good to see You Back in Fine Form

    Tony

  40. Resident Dissident

    3 May, 2014 - 8:00 pm

    Of course one thing that Canspeccy does not mention is that in recent years has seen a very significant change in its ethnicity – with the Russian birth rate falling and significant Russian emigration, which has been compensated by a large inflow of migrant labour mainly from the former Southern republics. However – I suspect he doesn’t worry about that since those migrants are usually treated as near slave labour, live in appalling housing and are often subject to abuse by officials and racist thugs (something that the Eminences would consider far worse than that doled out by the “fascist” (their word not mine) Theresa May if they could put their prejudices aside for a moment) – largely because Putin makes all the right nationalist noises and discourages any interbreeding. This is of course the sort of plan Canspeccy would like the West to follow as well – don’t let anyone be fooled otherwise.

  41. Some standards of journalism are more ethical than others. While all are biased the news coming out of Russia Today has been much more accurate than that of the BBC and the Guardian which have both been misreporting what happened in Odessa. They have started now to give a more accurate picture.

    As to Poland being a lot better off since it joined Europe than it was before I’m not so sure. I cycled through Poland in 2001. Everywhere was clean and tidy. There was no litter. The people were friendly and honest. I spoke to a man, Adam, in Przemyśl in the Prosecutor’s office and we spoke about Russian literature. He also told me about the problem of illegal immigrants coming in from the Ukraine. He directed me to a medieval castle as place of interest. The castle had secret passages and dated back to the eighteenth century though its records went back to the sixteenth century. Everybody I met was smartly dressed and there was one stage where I seriously contemplated doing an exchange of clothes with a scarecrow.

    In 2004 I got delayed in Krakow for almost a week because there were so many people coming to England I could not get a place on a coach. When I did get a place I sat next to a young medical doctor, Marta, who was coming to work in England. She had got a job to go to as a nurse at a care home in Shropshire. Her English was good but I felt sorry that she had taken a job below her qualifications. We kept in touch and I was not surprised when she went back to Poland.

    I have revisited Poland several times since, and driven there once. Things are still clean though litter-consciousness is not as evident as it was in 2001. Unemployment, which fell initially, is going up and stands at above 13% (stay away from Wikipedia, which says it is falling). The gap between rich and poor has increased. Wages and the cost of living have gone up, as has the value of the Złoty against a basket of currencies. I have a few friends in England who are Polish and they are still supporting families over there. Poland, in my opinion, has benefited so much from EU membership it is becoming little different from other western economies in some ways. The people are hard-working and generally welcoming. Unfortunately it is also part of NATO and has supplied troops for the illegal invasions together with training for the Maidan terrorists.

    Yes, it has growing GDP, if that is any indicator of improvement.

  42. Resident Dissident

    3 May, 2014 - 8:03 pm

    “I understand that Germany will not allow any Western military action to take place.”

    I don’t think anyone is proposing such action – the place to hit Putin is in his wallet. I would not underestimate Merkel – I suspect that she understands the real nature of Putin better than most having grown up in Eastern GermanY.

  43. John Goss,

    Great deal of truth in your anecdotal evidence, but if you took 1990 as your starting point rather 2001, the improvement is truly startling.

  44. technicolour

    3 May, 2014 - 8:12 pm

    John Goss: “While all are biased the news coming out of Russia Today has been much more accurate than that of the BBC and the Guardian”- tell me, oh oracle, how you devine this?

  45. Resident Dissident

    3 May, 2014 - 8:12 pm

    John Goss

    Since litter appears to be the main measure you use to measure a society perhaps you should note that under both Yeltsin and Putin, Moscow is clearly failing – strangely enough you will find that old Soviet communists often use the same measure. On the other hand, I am told that the streets of Pyongyang are pristine.

  46. technicolour

    3 May, 2014 - 8:15 pm

    “I would not underestimate Merkel”

    agreed. And having spent some time with some people from Germany over the last few days it was refreshing to see the righteous fury with which they greeted the fact that the US had been spying on their Chancellor and, moreover, were refusing to stop. As well as sobering to hear the contempt they had for the role of the English backers in all this.

    Incidentally, Snowden was described by one (a judge) as an honourable, service worthy man.

  47. Resident Dissident

    3 May, 2014 - 8:16 pm

    “Great deal of truth in your anecdotal evidence, but if you took 1990 as your starting point rather 2001, the improvement is truly startling.”

    I spent time in Poland around that time and I would agree – I do remember being proudly shown a salad bar in a Warsaw restaurant which consisted entirely of cabbage done 15 different ways – the beer however was excellent.

  48. “While all are biased the news coming out of Russia Today has been much more accurate than that of the BBC and the Guardian”- tell me, oh oracle, how you divine this?

    I watch the news. Thought that must have been obvious my friend.

  49. “I suspect that she understands the real nature of Putin better than most having grown up in Eastern GermanY.”

    Yeah. That’ll have prepared her for NSA spying on her personal conversations.

    Germany is very divided on the American desire to subjugate Russia and will be only too keenly aware that Europe itself is very vulnerable to any further destabilisation to the east.

    She’ll also be aware that the US doesn’t much mind that mighty Germany itself be futher undermined in the fallout.

  50. technicolour

    3 May, 2014 - 8:24 pm

    You watch the news? To judge the news?

    ‘My’ Germans wished that Germany had given Snowden asylum, which would have showed the US. Did he actually ask them?

    I remembered that when German ministers were showing signs of getting nouty about Iraq, the US had threatened to cut off imports of BMWs. At which point the more outspoken ministers went quiet…

  51. The important thing in life is to just go for it, even if you think you are useless, because if you try you get better – and despite all the (in my case physical problems (its nowt really – just myatonia congenita – never stopped me doing owt – I just faked it – pre-tensed my muscles before any test – which sometimes when immediately being summoned to the office in fury – at no notice – made me think really quickly and try and calm her down…by saying all the things I could think of- whilst I pre-tensed my muscles – so I could stand up normally…and walk quickly) I never took any drugs for it because my older brother and sister did..and are now dead. There’s nowt wrong with me so far as I know – and I am somewhat older than Craig. I dye my hair too – but it is mine (my Dad was bald at 25 – total genius mind)

    Thank You so Much

    We are off to the pub now…

    I’d love to meet you.

    Goodnight

    Tony

  52. Herbie @6.45pm

    Thanks for the link; the analysis of Stephen Cohen ex NYU, certainly seems more grounded in reality than that of Craig Murray, ex FCO.

    Craig is at least correct to say that, since the putsch that ousted Yanukovitch, this has become a ‘world domination game’. The latest piece of evidence for this is the statement issued by the State Dept after the horrendous events in Odessa yesterday-

    http://www.novinite.com/articles/160262/US,+Germany+Mourn+Victims+of+Ukraine%E2%80%99s+Odessa+Fire

    Note how the first paragraph better fits the sort of statements governments issue after natural disasters (‘tragedy’) rather than events caused by human agency. Note also how the deaths of so many are described simply as ‘unacceptable’. (I’m sure this is reminiscent of US statements at the time of Operation Cast Lead).

    It is quite plain from this statement that in this conflict, violence emanating for pro Kiev sources will not elicit outright condemnation from the US.

  53. John Goss, 8:02pm:

    “(stay away from Wikipedia, which says it is falling)”

    If Wikipedia lacks references to well-founded statistics that you know of, please update Wikipedia. It is your right, and could be considered a duty.

    Wikipedia is open to being edited by all, and if well-supported facts are added, removing them is a violation of Wikipedia’s rules.

    By merely complaining, and especially by urging people away, you abandon Wikipedia to those who publish the information that you dispute.

  54. Technicolour, you don’t criticise the BBC? What’s wrong with you? We all do on this blog, except for RD, Habbabkuk, Kempe and the usual shower of UK government stooges.

  55. technicolour

    3 May, 2014 - 8:53 pm

    Strange, John, isn’t it? I reserve the right to criticise appalling lack of news reporting (which may include the BBC) but equally strangely I do support the existence of a no commercial adverts channel.

  56. Clark, I tried once and there was so much rigmarole I gave up. Not easy. And there were people who seemed to have authority over others. As an authority on Robert Bage.

    “I spent time in Poland around that time and I would agree – I do remember being proudly shown a salad bar in a Warsaw restaurant which consisted entirely of cabbage done 15 different ways – the beer however was excellent.”

    I can believe it. I was in Minsk in 1982 and had a similar experience. I ordered Borsch and told them I was a vegetarian. It came with small pieces of meat in it. When I complained I was told they were only small pieces. Oh, and the beer was Zhugolovskii or some such name. It was not great either. The best beer I had in the former Soviet Union was in a bierkeller in Vilnius. :)

  57. Old Mark

    Operation Cast Lead was an appalling war crime because it targeted and massacred unarmed civilians. Including a lot of women and children. By contrast, my language for the death of aggressive participants in conflict is indeed that it is a tragedy. I have said that we will know a lot more about the truth from the profile of the victims in Odessa, but I am not anticipating many women or children. All information I hear so far indicates I am right.

    It is a tragic loss of life. But you can’t start battles and expect a situation where only the other side gets hurt.

  58. James Corbett in a video discussion with David L. Smith of the Geneva Business Insider, on the economics surrounding the American orchestrated Ukraine crisis:

    http://www.corbettreport.com/interview-871-geneva-business-insider-with-david-smith/

  59. “Strange, John, isn’t it? I reserve the right to criticise appalling lack of news reporting (which may include the BBC) but equally strangely I do support the existence of a no commercial adverts channel.”

    Me too. That’s the best thing about the BBC, lack of adverts, that and some of its drama, like Last Tango in Halifax, and serialisation of Classics, though I thought Jamaica Inn, though good in parts, lacked the atmosphere of the book.

  60. “you can’t start battles and expect a situation where only the other side gets hurt.”

    Uh, yeah. Tell it to the marines.

    It started in America.

  61. I’m heartened to see a few commentators still ready to intelligently ‘tell it as really it is’ – Canspeccy, Tony 0pmoc, John Goss, Mary and a few others but frankly, after maybe 8 years of trying to hang in there with Craig, this is my swan song on any further involvement here.

    In spite of his principled, career-destroying stance on torture I have become progressively disillusioned with his particular brand of hectoring liberal-left politics. His OTOH – OTO approach to the noose-tightening around Russia is just the latest manifestation of the way in which so-called ‘progressives’ in the west effectively facilitate the very worst manifestations of its violent arrogant aggression whilst simultaneously wringing their hands and denouncing it. I still can’t figure out quite what causes such blindeness.

    Craig may have been opposed to the West’s humanitarian bombing campaigns and terrorist violence facilitating in Yugoslavia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria etc, …but what else was the West supposed to do in the face of such evil dictators? is the general message conveyed. And so it is with Putin and Ukraine.

    I suggest he attends this recent Moscow University class lecture by its Director of Russian Studies Andrei Fursov: Battleground Ukraine. It might help him to “See himself as ithers see him” – to plagiarise his national poet – and to get a rather more nuanced understanding of the Russian perspective on these things. To paraphrase and borrow from Le Carre’s traitor Bill Haden, a substantial majority support their president and “Hate the American State system very deeply – the oppression of the working class institutionalised” + any uppity 2nd-or-3rd world country that declines to see things their/our way; and as for GREAT Britain – “…. America’s street-walker” just about sums it up.

    The plain fact is that Putin has simply declined to allow Russia to be dragged down the same path. In so doing he has become probably THE most popular head of state on the entire planet – and thus a hated and marked man in the West. The Anglo-US-NATO behemoth has, it appears, decided that it is going to make Ukraine THE casus belli for doing to Russia what they failed to follow-through on during the Yeltsin years – and GOD HELP US ALL!

    Also, you might like to study this map of Russia’s clearly aggressive intent

    Cheerio.

  62. Resident Dissident 3 May, 2014 – 8:12 pm

    Don’t know where you live but in Birmingham we have litter-pickers whose work is never done. It would not be too much to ask for people to take their litter home. This morning when coming back from walking the dogs a kid on a bike 14/15 perhaps drained a coke can and threw it to the ground I shouted to him to find a bloody litter bin. He looked at me and ignored me as one who owns the planet. We all have a responsibility to help our council’s parks and gardens and highway departments. My observations of Poland were a comparison to what I see here. On the Moscow Metro in Soviet days I never saw litter. Perhaps litter is a by-product of the capitalist throw-away society.

  63. Joseph Kurtz

    3 May, 2014 - 9:18 pm

    Logging in for future comment, differ on this but great blog – following from Australia for 3 year

  64. Mr Murray wrote:

    “My expectation is there will not be many women, children or old people among the dead, but also there will not be many non-Ukrainian nationals. I expect these will prove to have been local Russian young men.”

    This shows the results of the actions of West’s neonazi stooges. Note the absence of weapons.

    A comment by ‘olivegreen’ in the comments to this lists the names and DOBs of the victims identified so far. A wide variety of ages and sexes. All are from Odessa.

    Just for that extra touch – on the social media pages of some of the neonazis, commentators counterpose images of roast turkey with all the trimmings against images presented in the first link above.

  65. “Russia and China are in the way of US world hegemony.”

    That’s exactly the bigger picture here, Herbie. Has been since PNAC forced Clinton to sign the Iraq Liberation Act when he “did not have sexual relations with that woman.”

    From Serbia onwards, the same deceit, provocation and outright aggression.

    Martin Luther King must be turning in his grave.

  66. Kelly ben Maimon

    3 May, 2014 - 10:24 pm

    Craig Murray: “You can’t start a revolution in another country… You can affect it at the margins. The UN Security Council should send in UN peacekeepers, which include both Russian and Western forces in close intergration.”

    A number of questions spring to mind. Judging by the terrifying violent escalation over last few days.
    (1) Why has Security Council not acted on your particular solution – assuming others have surely come to same conclusion? Surely, others can see that the situation is out of control.
    (2) Is it that some sort of resolution needs to be passed beforehand?
    (3) Do all member states need to agree?

  67. Resident Dissident

    3 May, 2014 - 10:34 pm

    “My expectation is there will not be many women, children or old people among the dead, but also there will not be many non-Ukrainian nationals. I expect these will prove to have been local Russian young men.”

    I am not sure that this will be the case and it certainly isn’t what is being reported in Russia – but I’m afraid that it something of an irrelevance. With the Russians encouraging and supporting the takeover of government buildings in what is part of the Ukraine it was only a matter of time before there was a reaction from Ukrainian nationalists and extremists – I’m afraid that is what happens in such situations. Neither behaviour is excusable – it only demonstrates the restraint shown by the vast majority of Ukrainians that something like this didn’t happen much earlier.

    Strong international pressure needs to be exerted on both sides to get the military and quasi military out of the situation – as they have already agreed to do so. However, given the way this is all being reported in Russia I get the distinct impression that accelerating the cycle of violence is all part of Putin’s plan for a further invasion.

  68. @Tony_Opmoc

    “How pathetic can a phony analyst be?” was a bit strong…

    Yes, I agree: an ill-mannered presumption. I take it back with apologies — but with the proviso that one would be a fool not to realize that my supposition is quite likely correct.

    Thanks for the fascinating link:

    http://linguistic-determinism-art-language.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/empiric-myopia.html

    It provides salutary warning of the obscurity of events despite the glib reports from all sides, and offers a fascinating hypothesis on Snowden, an otherwise very strange phenomenon.

  69. That’s tosh Res Diss. Recycled western MSM wilful misreading of the situation – imaginative fiction – and with some uniquely cringeworthy hyperbole of your own larded on top. Where is your urge for enquiry into the identities of the ‘Ukranian nationalists and extremists’ who committed this atrocity? The victims have been identified, subject to verification, they’re were mixed bag of local people, hounded through the streets by a baying mob and horribly murdered.

    Craig’s off-beam with this analysis too, some interesting historical summary, some painfully evident editorialising too, with a disconnect from reality many commenters have remarked upon. Maybe it’s a two-part essay and the flip side is in the works?

    Resident Dissident (3 May, 2014 – 10:34 pm) “it only demonstrates the restraint shown by the vast majority of Ukrainians that something like this didn’t happen much earlier.”

    So your saying they deserved incineration, sooner?

    You’re one sick puppy. This’ll come back to haunt you.

  70. Craig,
    somewhat perplexed by your statement “The difference between the Russian and the British Empires is that the British gave almost all of theirs back in the post-colonial period (a process that needs to be urgently completed). Russia gave back much of her Empire at the fall of the Soviet Union, but still retained a very great deal more than the British.” You may disagree but I would expect that a thief should give eventually back what he has stolen but who will resurrect the dead and remedy the lives of millions that have been ruined by the colonial powers. The question you perhaps should ask yourself is whether, and to what extent, is this giving back voluntary. Certainly not in my opinion. Your comparison is intended to fool the reader. How much have the US government given back to the Sioux or Apaches? Fucking nothing, I would say. The colonization of America was similar to that of Russia. A gradual expansion over large swathes of land with low population density. I hope that you will not be too surprised if I tell you that the British colonization was totally different as it involved subjugating countries that were rather distant from the motherland and had large populations like India. Keeping them for much longer would have been impossible. Thus what you mean by giving back is not dissimilar to a thief leaving behind a bronze statue on a doorstep that is too heavy to carry to the van. Or letting free a crocodile that has grown too large for his bathtub.

  71. One brilliant analysis. Nothing to add. Thanks.

    I’d have a reservation re. “The desire of ordinary Ukrainians to join the EU one day, and move closer to it now, is understandable.” If desires of “ordinary Ukrainians” are analysed, I don’t think “joining EU” would be anywhere in the first 100 of the most burning ones. Safety of existence, definitely. Lowers prices, higher wages, yes. But for the MAJORITY of them, European Union is just an imaginary creature, the way it was for the Poles, Czechs, etc., in the 1990s.

    Decisions on forming strategic alliances can only rarely be decided upon by the masses, and certainly not in countries characterised by precarious security situation. What the “ordinary Ukrainians” want is utterly irrelevant IMHO – people will want whatever TV tells them to, and there is more than enough studies to confirm this.

    People in the east of Ukraine now are told that joining Russia will bring stability and prosperity. I bet the majority believes in that. And will until local TV transmitters change hands.

    Sorry for my rant, and thanks again for a truly enlightening post.

  72. “From Serbia onwards, the same deceit, provocation and outright aggression.”

    Precisely, Mike.

    The problem with Craig’s approach is that it’s much too discrete, can’t see the wood for the trees.

    Picking on Putin for what are relatively minor matters in the Ukraine context and ignoring completely the West’s much graver involvement and its longer term plans.

    The West is determined that there is no challenge to its desire to impose its rules upon the whole planet. That’s why Russia and China are ringed with NATO bases. Either threatened into submission or bombed into submission.

    It’s as simple as that.

    You’re either for that plan or you’re not.

    And each element must be treated as part of the larger plan.

    In that context, Craig’s position just seems confused.

  73. Tony M,
    I agree with you that these blood hounds like the resident dissident craving for murder are intolerable. Why does Craig tolerates the implicit sadness of this hasbara clown that more blood has not been spilled in Odessa is difficult to understand.

  74. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 12:04 am

    Yonotan; I’ve taken the liberty of google tranzing your link (beware graphic images)

    Squonk was watching the live feed and the Odessa police were standing around when the victims sought shelter in the building, which was intentionally set afire. The cops seemed to be on task to prevent the wrong side from emerging unscathed.

  75. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 12:05 am

  76. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 12:21 am

    “In that context, Craig’s position just seems confused.”

    It’s hard to tell what the nuance within Craig’s ideology is. I wish he would dispense with his prickly condescension when he replies to comments, but perhaps it’s a defense mechanism. He has a very narrow spectrum on certain subjects, and sometimes it seems he feels his first response is sufficient for all but fools, so follow-ups are received with abject silence. It’s hard to tell if he’s stumped or just gives up the ghost of tolerance.

  77. None of the remaining provinces would opt to join Russia given the choice.

    I don’t think many in Ukraine or Russia are saying otherwise. At the outset of this US/NATO/Chatham House-induced “crisis” Putin stated that Russia did not seek additional territory, i.e., other than Crimea, where 93% of those who actually voted, i.e., about 83%, are said to have voted for union with Russia (which seems not implausible), and where Russia has based its Black Sea fleet for most of the time since 1783, i.e., since before the US had appropriated most of the territory of the North Americas Amerindians.

    Consistent with this Russian position, Russia’s English language media refer to the E. Ukraine protesters as Federalists, not separatists. “Separatist” is the term used by the Western media and Kyiv regime after it became obviously absurd to use the term “terrorist” for those in Eastern Ukraine angry at the intention of the Nazi-backed Kyiv junta to deny them the use of Russian as an official language.

    You advocate Scotch separatism, but would deny Russian-speaking Ukrainians the right to the use of their first language or the right to a referendum on provincial autonomy. This seems like truly astounding hypocrisy.

    As for the blather about the wonderful improvement in the standard of living of East European members of the EU, the fact is many in the EU are suffering far greater economic stress than the people of Russia, where the GDP has tripled in the last 25 years. In fact, if Ukraine were to become a member of the EU now, most of the best educated young people would grab an EU passport and leave for Berlin or London, while the majority at home would be saddled with years of austerity, mass unemployment and looting of the economy by oligarchs of both East and West.

  78. Another important thing to know – especially as it gets warmer – obviously you can’t take the piss – is to ask for a pint of tap water – and insist that you are not paying for it…I am not sure if it is still a legal requirement..but it is a very long standing cultural, accepted thing in the watering holes I go to with my wife – particularly if they both have a beer festival on – and a Brilliant Band.

    Best Drink of the Day

    Tony

  79. @ RD
    This is of course the sort of plan Canspeccy would like the West to follow as well

    Still pushing the opposition-to-genocide-is-racism meme? Good luck with that!

  80. Would be sorry if Wikispooks ceases to comment, especially after the Moscow University class lecture of Andrei Fursov posted in his comment above. I have never read such an in-depth analysis of who the oligarchs are, what are the powers behind those with an interest in Ukraine, how Russia is trying to control the beast unleashed on the world in the form of NATO wars. His analysis of Putin and the Russian government being one step ahead, and preparing to defend itself against any similar aggression. And the analysis makes sense. It finishes with a stark warning about the information war that I believe should not be ignored.

    “Well, we shouldn’t be ashamed to learn from the West how to operate in the informational domain. Their policies are of an offensive nature. If you are reacting, then you’re one step behind and you’re going to lose. In the Crimean Victory we won because our leadership, above all the president, he was always a step ahead of the opponent. He took a step. They reacted. He set the agenda.”

    They did win. They won Crimea. I recently applied for a new passport. Up to four weeks I think it said it would take if I remember right. In three days maybe less everybody in Crimea was issued with passports. In some ways I feel Russia is ahead not just in the information war, but in their analyses of situations, and see the bigger picture better than those they learnt from. I am really concerned about what is happening in the Ukraine, for the people killed in Odessa the images of which are disturbing. But thank you Yonatan for posting.

    I still suspect (conspiracy theory of course) the Russians shot down two missiles when Israel tried to ramp up the pressure in Syria, because after that US/NATO (same thing) backed off when we all thought they were previously creating an excuse to go in. Also Russian intelligence was obviously ahead of the game in releasing audio footage of Catherine Ashton/Urmus Paet and, presumably, a recorded meeting with Victoria Nuland, Klitschko, Yatsenyuk and thugs.

  81. Continued from previous thread… RT are still claiming that civilians have been murdered by Right Sector in K, although they are playing down the Nazi imagery. Jury has to still be out unless verified independently. BBC always used to make sure they had at least two independent sources – is that still true today?

    I’ve looked through some of the thousands of pictures on social media show the lead up to the burning of the TU headquarters, and pictures of people brought out of the building. There are pictures of Molotov cocktails being produced by the sort of photogenic females that we all saw in the Maidan protests. No doubt in my mind now that the MM have been nurturing a neo-Nazi mindset amongst the young in Western Ukraine.

    There were also pictures of charred bodies that hadn’t been removed… hence the rise to 46 today. Whilst some may have been pro-Russian activists, there were probably also people working in the building that was stormed and burned, and we know how much our right-wing friends like trades unionists…

    We should all be aware of the words of Pastor Niemoiller, because it seems to me that we potentially have a 4th Reich here in the making on Russia’s doorstep. And the “useful fools” blame Russia for this?!!?

  82. K = Kramatorsk

    An interesting thought that has to invite a reaction:

    “The illegal Kiev puppets get more money if they can delivery west and east Ukraine to IMF and US. As we see they’re willing to kill to get the extra billions.”

    (Comment a few minutes ago on RT website)

  83. CanSpeccy wrote “Still pushing the opposition-to-genocide-is-racism meme? Good luck with that!”

    Still pushing the allowing-any-immigraton-whatsoever-is-genocide meme? Good luck with that!

  84. Only been to Poland once and then only to Warsaw, but from the few people I spoke to it seemed like it could well be the case that the country was getting better off overall but inequality growing so much that many people were worse off (as with most of the developed world). Was told the same people who were senior public servants under the Communist party were now running the privatised firms and the stock exchange. Then again i was only there once so don’t have anything to compare it to.

  85. Craig

    Your use of the term ‘aggressive participants’ is an addition to the lexicon. I don’t recall it being used by you last winter, when Yanukovitch was still in office, and events like this-

    http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/protesters-storm-police-headquarters-chaos-spreads-lviv-n33576

    and this-

    http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/01/23/ukraine-protesters-storm-office-and-force-regional-governor-to-resign-as-demonstrations-continue-in-smouldering-kyiv/

    were happening elsewhere in Ukraine

  86. Wikispooks I endorse the stated wish of others here, that you continue to offer your words of wisdom to us out in the wider world. Perhaps if you might just accept (for better or worse) Craig’s position on various issues, your contributions are valued by many others, and who knows, the scales might fall from the eyes of those who can’t ‘see’.

    We can’t change others, but at least hang in with those who care to see all sides of any given situation. Thank You.

  87. @DM

    Still pushing the allowing-any-immigraton-whatsoever-is-genocide meme?

    Your sneer is based on a lie.

    Get the facts right and you demolish your own position and reveal your own anti-British racism.

    Allowing mass immigration when the fertility of the indigenous population is below the replacement rate results in population replacement, which is genocide.

    But it’s a waste of time, I realize, pointing out facts to pig-headed immigration fanatics and dupes of the globalist elite.

  88. “Were western governments encouraging pro-western groups in Ukraine? Yes, that’s their job. Did this include covert support? Yes. Were the Russians doing precisely the same thing with their supporters? Yes, that’s their job too.”

    That’s their job only in the sense that it was Jose Rodriguez’ job to cut the tits off nuns. As the World Court put it, “The Court notes that there have been in recent years a number of instances of foreign intervention in one State for the benefit of forces opposed to the government of that State. It concludes that the practice of States does not justify the view that any general right of intervention in support of an opposition within another State exists in contemporary international law.” So the US was in the wrong before the revolution established itself as the new government. If, as seems likely, the successor state breached international obligations in coming to power, all nations have a responsibility not to recognize the wrongfully-established circumstances. Hands-off is best, no doubt, but the Russian and US hands-on are not precisely equivalent.

    Agreed that Ukraine is now a pawn of great-power confrontation in multilateral breach of the non-intervention principle. That means the only sure way to defuse the conflict is to set up a neutral Ukraine. In principle that’s for the state to decide but the threat to peace might override that. Let’s hope cooler heads short-circuit the NATO/SCO tug-of-war with a neutral Ukraine.

  89. Sadly a very one-sided historical analysis
    Craig fails to mention the fact that while many Russian speakers east of the Dnieper see themselves as Ukrainian- many of the neo-nazis west of the Dneiper do not. While Nuland’s $5b is likely highly exaggerated, as is much else of from the neo-con camp, the financial inputs fro State Dept’s the Endowment for Democracy in the past 10 years combined with the resourcing and training by Western intelligence agencies of the neo-nazi parties in Western Ukraine during the entire period of the Cold War and after are certainly likely to total in the hundreds of millions of dollars. From the West perspectives the neo-nazis are sen as foolish tools to control Ukraine’s geopolitical resources and a stepping stone to Russia but there values are clear- to rid Ukraine of all non Ukrainian speaking peoples
    It is undoubtedly true that there is a large contingent of extreme right wing groups in Russia itself, and Putin and his entourage are definitely not in the liberal and morally laissez-faire camp either (it would appear not many Russian citizens are!) However to characterize Putin as some demonic dictator about to re-take all of Eastern Europe is both bizarre and superficial.
    Unquestionably there will be Russian intelligence agents on the ground in Eastern Ukraine, but even the US State Department cant find factual evidence that actually sticks of Russian troops on the ground. The usefulness of Svoboda and the Right Sektor and other right wing groups, to the West is purely in their hatred of Russia and the evils done to Ukraine in the name of the USSR.

    Russian speaking Ukrainians are undoubtedly at risk in this new environment of Ukrainian “nationalism”, which has been heavily supported by the West -to pretend otherwise is, at best, sloppy analysis.

  90. I liked Tony’s post at 8.34.

    I don’t feel I have much to add to this discussion. Its too difficult.

  91. Ukrainian Ukrainians have a lot to be bitter about such as Holodomor. If I had lived through that then I might have found myself on the wrong side in WW11. Russian Ukrainians have a good argument about NATO encroachment. Don’t let it become a new Syria.

  92. It is a good article. but before posting it, you should show it to a native speaker of Russian. You write, “as I have repeatedly explained, absolutely everybody in the former Soviet Union knows precisely what is asked in the questions of Gradzvanstvo and Narodnosch)” The word your are seeking is Ethnicity or Nazionalnost Национальность. It is also commonly refered to as The Fifth Line Пятая Графа (as it was the fifth line of the Soviet passport (I used to have one). Now, Gradzvanstvo гражданство is citizenship, for example, British citizenship Гражданство Великобритании or Британское гражданство). Narodnosch is a misspeling of the word narodnost народность and this word has two separate meanings. First is “small nation” Daghestan has about two hundred small nations, all with their mutually incomprehensible languages (Darginians, Avarians, Lezgins, Tats (the Mountain Jews).Second meaning is “Respect for what common people believe) English narodnost is a claim that marmite is really tasty and should be a part of lunch in every school, Scottish narodnost is ordering that all Scottish bankers be ethnically Scottish, wear kilts to work or be fired. This is a part of the Count Uvarov’s famous triad “Absolute Monarchy, Orthodox Faith, Respect for Folk Traditions” Самодержавие, Православие, Народность. There are many other points I could raise, but my post is already long. My last point: great respect and admiration for you, Mr Murray. You were a great Ambassador.

  93. Resident Dissident

    4 May, 2014 - 7:33 am

    Tony M

    You may think I ‘m sick – but at least I am not dishonest – read what I said “Neither behaviour is excusable” Yes there should be an enquiry and action against those responsible for the deaths in Odessa – just as there should be an enquiry into those responsible for the murders and torture going on in Donetsk and the helicopters being shot down by SAM missiles. However, the immediate concern should be to stop any escalation.

  94. To clarify the ‘Cheerio’ in my last post.

    I admit the post was written in exasperation with its attendant distortions.

    What I mean by ‘swan-song’ and ‘cheerio’ is this: Like others here, I currently have far more sites on my RSS feed than I can possibly do justice to. I therefore have to have periodic clear-outs. Craig’s blog is now no longer on the list; that’s all – which means I am unlikely to have my attention drawn to his posts unless referred to them in some other way. Much more useful and clear-sighted stuff elsewhere I’m finally forced to admit.

    On the OSCE military observers detention issue dealt with in the previous post. This was Putin’s measured reply to a journalists question about it. There is also useful stuff from him about the US leadership of the Kiev Junta and Western sanctions.

    If only we had a leader of his stature in the west, instead of pathetic puppets of hidden (but no less obvious) interests that we have to endure, there might be some hope for the future. As it is the internal logic of the dying globalist system looks set fair to wreak vastly more damage on the planet and its peoples in its death-throws – GHUA again.

    I’ll check this thread for a while, but otherwise that’s it from me.

  95. Obomber the joker. Sick. A bonehead.

    “Colorado legalized marijuana this year. I hope it doesn’t lead to a bunch of paranoid people who think the government is out to get them, and listening to their phone calls,” the president said, nodding to the N.S.A.’s mass surveillance programs.
    http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2014/04/barack-obama-2014-white-house-correspondents-dinner-jokes-zingers

    On Putin, pronounced Poot’n

    ‘Obama made fun of conservative television hosts’ talk about Putin’s bare chest and one’s comment last year about Putin being headed for a Nobel Peace Prize. “To be fair, they give those to just about anybody these days,” said Obama, a laureate himself.’

    Yes Obomber you did get one didn’t you. As Shillary said, ‘We came, We saw, He died’. That was nice for Gaddafi, Osama Bin Laden and all those you have killed extrajudicially by drone, Hellfire missile and the bullet.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/u-s-president-pokes-fun-at-cnn-over-extensive-missing-jet-coverage-1.2631376

  96. Please don’t leave us Wikispooks. I remember your invaluable piece on the Dr Rola/Syria lies carried on ZBC. The lies continue eg stories via Mr Pannell of barrel bombs dropped from helicopters on Aleppo. Your record is needed. Kind regards.

  97. Peacewisher

    4 May, 2014 - 8:54 am

    This blog really needs you, Wikispooks. I’ve only been an occasional poster, but agreed with most of what Craig has written most of the time until the Ukrainian matter arose. He is clearly displaying a view of Russia based on the cold war and the USSR, which I suspect is still prevalent in the FO, although Russia has clearly moved on.

    His dislike of Russia comes across clearly in “Murder in Samarkind”, but in that book he was brave enough to publish an “Enron” connection with the Taliban. I think his analysis on this occasion is dangerously wrong, but at least he wants peace in a neutral Ukraine and he is open to honest debate about it.

  98. I was looking to see who wrote the piece in the Independent.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-crisis-kremlin-insists-it-cannot-control-prorussian-separatists-and-calls-for-dialogue-with-west-9321412.html

    Oliver Poole

    Oliver Poole is an award-winning Foreign Correspondent for the Evening Standard and Independent titles. In his career he has reported from war zones including Libya, Afghanistan, Somalia and Iraq, where he was based during the worst years of the civil war. He has written two books, “Red Zone: Five Bloody Years in Baghdad’ and ‘Black Knights: On the Bloody Road to Baghdad’. He was previously a Foreign Reporter for The Daily Telegraph, and has written for the BBC, Guardian, Times and South China Morning Post.

    ‘….and Iraq, where he was based during the worst years of the civil war.’

    If he sees the Bush/Blair PNAC slaughter enacted on Iraq, then abandon all expectation of truth from the British media.

    !!!!!!!!!

  99. If he sees the Bush/Blair PNAC slaughter enacted on Iraq as a ‘civil war’, then abandon all expectation of truth from the British media.

  100. “I’ve only been an occasional poster, but agreed with most of what Craig has written most of the time until the Ukrainian matter arose. He is clearly displaying a view of Russia based on the cold war and the USSR, which I suspect is still prevalent in the FO, although Russia has clearly moved on.”

    This is a fair assessment. I have not been back but to Russia. The cost of a flight and accommodation is one reason, which shows just how much it has moved on. However I’m hoping (planning) to go when Russia hosts the World Cup in 2018, providing the Yanks/Zionists have not succeeded in their aims of world domination to cover up the incredibly super-fast growing mountain of debt under which their economy is drowning. When it drowns, or we are annihilated, whichever comes first, it will be the death of modern economic systems as we know them. Those who survive will have to try and cobble together what’s left and build a more moral society, which excludes oligarchy, monopoly, monarchy and hopefully the anarchy these non-egalitarian systems spawn.

  101. Craig,

    Re: “British did not commit genocide of the existing populations”

    How does the British treatment of the Australian Aboriginals sit with that statement?

    “The following year, the Human Rights Commission handed down a landmark report on the “Stolen Generation” that described how tens of thousands of aboriginal children of mixed race were taken from their parents between the 20s and 60s as part of a systematic policy of “breeding out the colour”. The president of the commission, Sir Roland Wilson, said, “We as a committee have decided that what was done meets the international definition of genocide? which is the attempt to destroy a people, a culture.”"
    http://johnpilger.com/articles/fixed-race

    “The most enduring and insidious Murdoch campaign has been against the Aboriginal people, who were dispossessed by the arrival of the British in the late 18th century and have never been allowed to recover. “Nigger hunts” continued into the 1960s and beyond. The officially-inspired theft of children from Aboriginal families, justified by the racist theories of the eugenics movement, produced those known as the Stolen Generation and in 1997 was identified as genocide. Today, the first Australians have the shortest life expectancy of any of the world’s 90 indigenous peoples. Australia imprisons Aborigines at five times the rate South Africa during the apartheid years. In the state of Western Australia, the figure is eight times the apartheid rate. ”

    “The City of Sydney ruling is a very different gesture, and admirable; for it reflects not a liberal and limited “sorry campaign”, seeking feel-good “reconciliation” rather than justice, but counters a cowardly movement of historical revision in which a collection of far-right politicians, journalists and minor academics claimed there was no invasion, no genocide, no Stolen Generation, no racism.”

    And so on…..
    https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=site:johnpilger.com+aboriginal+genocide&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&gfe_rd=cr&ei=_f9lU4SnKMqI0AXHjoHwDA

  102. CM: “the British gave almost all of theirs [empire] back”

    Laughable. The British establishment did not “give back” the empire. They lost it. For reasons such as native revolt, growing workers power, growing US empire, German empire and two world wars…

    To repeatedly assert, as you keep doing, that the British establishment gifted the end of empire is a delusion that, perhaps uncoincidentally, mirrors your personal moment of revelation about the horror of empire. However, a delusion it is.

    The British establishment to this day adapt tactics to cling to the new ways of empire. See this, newly found in the national archives:

    Foreign Secretary Alec Douglas-Home, 1970:

    “Our position as a permanent member of the Security Council gives us special opportunities for using the United Nations as a forum to exert our influence. Indirectly the United Nations development assistance activities may help to preserve Western influence in the third world”.

  103. Hat tip to Tony Opmoc LINK,

    The Ukrainian global 9-11 redux seems as if the US is probing with every dirty trick in their bag to learn if they have any magic left. They do not. What this tells us is that they are alone and on the run. They burned every bridge, broke every treaty, and have no friends left, no allies; even Israel turned its back. The Nobel Laureate didn’t get a dime from the House of Saud. Moreover, Russia didn’t even sniff the bait. This in turn tells us that the cartel, not only had to plan the operation themselves, they had to pay for it too! Can you imagine! Obviously, they tried to do it on the cheep by assembling a coalition of criminals. Americans absolutely could not do it, they are tired, dead broke and sick of the slaughtering.

    Putin, emasculated the coalition of the criminally insane and turned operation Crimea into operation Dirty Dick Chaney (AKA Obama) meets Lorena Bobbitt. As Putin said, “What is happening today before our eyes is the end of one international system and the birth of a qualitatively different one.” In other words, US lawless savagery is over. Putin understands that America can not be bargain with, it has to be stopped. Russia was not given a choice. The barbarians were at their gate.

    Over the next months, in the controlled media, we are going to be subjected to a tidal wave of agonizing talking heads, Obama apologists and spin doctors, ad nauseam. Please, spare us, the ignominy. However, the one thing that is news worthy and will not be on any news program, is that if we don’t get our act together, if we don’t stop the senseless murdering of entire cultures, and soon, the world will stop us, one way or another.

    What can we do? Boo them everywhere they show their face in public and stop watching TV, especially the controlled news. That would be a good start. However, the smartest way I know how to reverse the destructive path we have taken is to rebuild our culture by diverting funds from war to education and the arts; the rest will follow naturally.

  104. (T)here is one thing anyone with half a brain should have worked out by now. The ruling 1%, the ultra-wealthy, in both Russia and the West are so interconnected with each other that they are playing the game of world domination while trying at the same time to make sure nobody super-rich really loses his money.

    Only up to a point. Berezovsky, for example, lost his.

  105. Wikispooks 4 May, 2014 – 7:46 am
    “If only we had a leader of his [Putin] stature in the west”

    What a truly pathetic statement. Really fucking idiotic. You, my internet warrior friend, are deluded.

    Putin is a killer. He is a greedy self serving elitist. He is no different to the establishment here. CM is right when he points out that the rich and powerful on both sides have more in common with each other than they do with us.

    Your Andrei Fursov article is as partial as Craig’s here. Kasparov my arse. What do you thinks happens to dissenters in Russia? The same as what happens here. Except more so.

  106. Some points:

    a) I can see several comments asking Wikispooks not to leave but not the one saying the is going. The answer to which is that the only two people who have ever been banned are still commenting, and that nobody is forced to be here, but Wikispooks would be very much missed. Frankly, I don’t see the point of only going to blogs where you agree with everything. I don’t value or devalue people according to whether they agree with me or not. Wikispooks comments have been very welcome for many years, and his website is excellent.

    My views on Russia and Putin have been very consistent. Russia is much less free than the West – a really nasty autocracy with a still more vicious capitalism. My views are hardly new – seven years ago I was rather ahead of my time in warning very loudly about German energy dependency on Russia and Russian human rights abuses.
    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2007/06/russian_journal/

    I come at this from a human rights perspective – where Putin scores very badly – and from an anti-imperialist perspective. From Tashkent the world looks different and you understand that there is a struggle firstly, within Islamic ex-colonies to gain freedom from Russian trained colonial elites like Karimov, and secondly in the still colnised Islamic colonial areas like Chechnya, Dagestan and Tatarstan to get freedom from the Russian Empire at all.

    On genocide, yes kiwi I stand corrected on Australia, thanks. On the end of the British Empire, I have a different view to the dogmatic Marxists among you as to the extent this was entirely due to local resistance, or to which ideological change in the UK itself post 1945 hastened it. That is however irrelevant.

    The point is that the British Empire did end, almost completely and needs to be finally ended. The Russian Empire has not ended – undeniably in Chechnya and Dagestan – is reasserting itself, and that Putin is a right wing nationalist imperialist.

  107. Matthew Maly,

    Thanks for the compliment. You cannot “misspell” a Russian word in the English alphabet. Transliteration from Cyrillic is entirely a matter of taste. There is no “correct” spelling. I accept your correction on meaning as my Russian has got very rusty. My point however was that throughout the FSU the distinction between ethnicity and nationality is well understood as both were included on passports and all official documents.

  108. I agree with your overall assessment and take, but it is only correct to call Tatarstan/Tataria a colonised Islamic area if you wish to make an argument rooted in the 16th century.

  109. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    4 May, 2014 - 11:39 am

    “‘Obama made fun of conservative television hosts’ talk about Putin’s bare chest and one’s comment last year about Putin being headed for a Nobel Peace Prize. “To be fair, they give those to just about anybody these days,” said Obama, a laureate himself.’

    Yes Obomber you did get one didn’t you. As Shillary said, ‘We came, We saw, He died’. That was nice for Gaddafi, Osama Bin Laden and all those you have killed extrajudicially by drone, Hellfire missile and the bullet.”
    _____________________

    It would be nice if people ceased posting sour dross.

    “To be fair, they give those to just about anybody these days,” said Obama, a laureate himself.’

    Has the thought occurred that Obama might – might just – have been making a joke about himself? Demonstrating a sense of humour so sadly lacking in some of his detractors here and elsewhere?

    BTW, I hadn’t realised that Khadafi was killed by Obama or even by another American, but hey, you learn something new every day on here!

  110. N_

    Like Ireland, for example? Absolutely it is a colony, as all of Ireland was and part still is.

  111. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    4 May, 2014 - 11:57 am

    Craig

    “The point is that the British Empire did end, almost completely and needs to be finally ended.”
    ____________________

    Agree largely with your follow-up posts, including the one from which the above quotation comes.

    As far as I can see, the Empire now consists of only a handful of rather small territories – Falklands, Ascension, St Helena, BAT,….

    You might prefer to answer on a future, more appropriate thread (if at all) but I’d be interested to know exactly what you mean by finally ending the Empire. Do you mean granting independence to those few small territories, most if not all of which would be unviable or only barely viable as independent entities (including economically)? If so, are you aware of any desire for independence in all or any of these territories, andd what would be gained from independence from the point of view of both the mother country and those territories themselves? Or are you thinking of matters like judicial “independence” (eg the Privy Council’s rôle)as well? Or, finally, is this just a postion of principle you’ve adopted?

  112. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    4 May, 2014 - 12:02 pm

    Craig

    Your reply to N_ prompts me to ask you a further question: do you think that the French DOM-TOMs are in reality part of a French Empire (and should therefore also be given independence) or do you accept that they are integral parts of the French Republic?

  113. @Craig. You make the point that Ireland was settled centuries ago too. But one major difference between Ireland and Tatarstan/Tataria is that the vast majority of people who live in Ireland today call themselves Irish, whereas a large proportion of the population of Tatarstan/Tataria call themselves not Tatar but Russian. Far from being a colonial elite, like the British in say India, the Russians in T/T are people of all classes. Granted, there is a slight overweighting of Tatars as against Russians in lower social groups, but the imbalance is nowhere near as stark as to indicate Russian colonialism in an Islamic country as you depict it. Incidentally, whereas the class mix among Russians in T/T is about the same as it is among Tatars in that country, the same is not true among some of the other ethnic groups with a smaller presence there, such as the Chuvash, Udmurts, Georgians and Jews.

    Nor is Northern Ireland any longer essentially a settler state, any more than the US is a European colony or collection of such.

  114. Sofia Kibo Noh

    4 May, 2014 - 12:29 pm

    Craig.

    Thanks for your perspective.

    Some footage here of Kramatorsk citizens and Ukrainian soldiers yesterday.

    What would you say is going on in this 3 min clip?

    It seems to me like an awesome display of raw courage by citizens who are clearly facing the threat of lethal force with their own bodies and vocal chords. Also a display of courage by the Ukrainian soldiers who clearly disobeyed orders and know there will be consequences.

    Any other explanations?

  115. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    4 May, 2014 - 12:30 pm

    O/T – forgive me!

    @ Technicolour

    You are perhaps no longer following the “Apartheid Israel poison is out” thread and I therefore allow myself to tell you that I’ve posted a reply (at 13h25 today) to something you wrote there and which I believes merits a rejoinder.

  116. Ukrainians have divided loyalties. A great majority of them want to see their country free of Russian or Western domination. The Jewish oligarchs and powerful Western Jewish lobby groups want Ukraine to become an American while 18% of country’s Muslim population prefer to stay neutral in this conference.

    The convicted/pardoned Jewish former Assistant Secretary of State Elliott Abrams, in a post at the CFR magazine (March 1, 2014) compares the situation in Ukraine to Obama’s caution on attacking Syria or Iran.

    “Those who are wondering whether we need to pass sanctions legislation now and put more pressure on Iran should take all this into account. Like Putin, the ayatollahs likely see our failure to act in Syria (indeed our willingness to be “rescued” from action by Putin) as a sign that they can drive a hard bargain indeed with us over their nuclear weapons program, giving up nearly nothing and getting sanctions relief. And now they see us reacting (so far) to Russian aggression in Ukraine, sending troops across the border into the Crimea, with tut-tutting,” wrote the Jewish convict.

    http://rehmat1.com/2014/03/06/chief-rabbi-wants-american-boots-in-ukraine/

  117. O/T Is there some state agenda ongoing ref the IRA and Sinn Fein? I haven’t heard much about the Protestant crimes in this reworking of the past. Why now?

    Adams has been under arrest for 4 days now.

    The BBC say:
    Sinn Féin accused of ‘blackmailing’ PSNI over Gerry Adams
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-27272696

    This morning Sue McGregor revisited the Omagh bombing on BBC Radio 4.
    The Omagh Bombing
    Duration: 45 minutes
    First broadcast:Sunday 04 May 2014
    The Omagh bomb was the worst massacre in Northern Ireland’s modern history. On Saturday the 15th of August a massive bomb placed by the so-called Real IRA killed two unborn twins, six men, twelve women and eleven children. The dead included Protestants, Catholics and a Mormon. The blast wave was so powerful that the bodies of several victims were never found.
    The bombing was “a barbaric act intended to wreck Ireland’s aspirations for peace and reconciliation,” said President Clinton who came to walk amongst the wreckage. Only four months earlier Northern Ireland’s main political parties had signed up to the Good Friday agreement, power sharing was on its way and the Provisional IRA was on ceasefire.
    No one has ever been convicted in connection with the massacre at Omagh but in April 2014, Seamus Daly was arrested and charged with 29 counts of murder over the attack.
    The 43-year-old bricklayer, originally from Culloville, County Monaghan, but now residing in Jonesborough, County Armagh, also faces counts of causing the explosion in Omagh and possession of a bomb in the County Tyrone market town with intent to endanger life or property.
    In this episode of The Reunion, recorded shortly before charges were brought against Daly, Sue MacGregor is joined by Kevin Skelton whose wife Mena was killed by the bomb, Michael Gallagher and Victor Barker whose sons Aiden and James also died, former RUC police constable Richard Scott, and by BBC Northern Ireland’s Political Editor Mark Devenport.
    Producer: Emily Williams
    Series Producer: David Prest

  118. Ref http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/05/world-domination/#comment-455925

    Has the thought occurred that Obama might – might just – have been LAUGHING IN OUR FACES?????

  119. Habbabkuk seems to be in a time zone that is different to the UK’s?? He says he posted a comment to Technicolour at 13.25hrs on the apartheid thread. It actually went up at 12.25hrs BST.

    ???

  120. Another Revolt
    March 1, 2014, the clamor of Kiev

    by LAURA MANUELIDIS

    In vivid night no flags flew—
    Only stars, shiftless, spoke the wind—
    Wind that obeys no boundaries

    Blossoming the good
    from the buried bones again
    Their thick sweet opening under smoke

    As the pockmarked earth spread scabs
    To heal the poison, the unceasing wounds
    that separate the tribes—of howling

    Wolves: from the elephants shy in their
    compassionate tears
    Backing away from man and woman
    Kind— to regain the original place
    of everything and nothing at once: Nameless.

    Laura Manuelidis is a physician and neuroscientist. She has been published in diverse literary journals including: The Nation, Oxford Poetry, Innisfree Poetry, Evergreen Review, Counterpunch, and Poetry Magazine . Her two poetry books: Out of Order, and One / divided by Zero, are available on Amazon.
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/05/02/manuelidis-orloski-kangalee/

  121. My sincere thanks to Wikispooks for his fact finding and straight line comments here. His link to Andrey Fursov’s explanation of the behind the scene trepidations of oligrachs with strong western connections has made my day.

    Keep happy and healthy, I’m sure that many here will frequent your blog and resources in future, cheerio

  122. “Any other explanations?”

    It can be assumed because of the population ethnicities of Ukraine that a good number will be pro-Russian. I do not think these soldiers want to open fire on unarmed civilians in their own country. It’s a bit like Westminster wanting to take back,say, Newcastle (if Newcastle did an Occupy takeover). These armed forces personnel were nothing like the angry western-funded mob that was bussed in specially to murder the peaceful occupiers of a Trade Union building in Odessa. Also, they probably know already that Eastern Ukraine is a lost cause and the best this illegal government can hope for is trying to keep its blood-stained hands on Western Ukraine.

    My own prediction is that they will lose that battle too. Now everybody in the world knows what Ukraine knew yesterday: that the Nazi thugs, paid for by the Oligarchs and the west, have murdered the ordinary citizens (men and women) of Odessa, and it will be a hard public relations exercise to win back support for the thugs in power. A damage-limitation exercise is underway and Yatsenyuk has, allegedly blamed the security services for allowing it to happen (BBC). Odessa is not far from Moldova, which is strongly pro-Russian, and may even cede to Russia before too long. What then? Russia will have to protect its interests.

  123. Craig:

    Just so you know, Raphael Lemkin himself wrote about what happened to the Tasmanian Aboriginals as an example of genocide.
    http://press.anu.edu.au/apps/bookworm/view/Humanities+Research+Vol+XVI.+No.+2.+2010/5271/docker.xhtml

  124. H.G Wells also wrote in ‘The War of the Worlds’:

    “And before we judge of them too harshly we must remember what ruthless and utter destruction our own species has wrought, not only upon animals, such as the vanished bison and the dodo, but upon its inferior races. The Tasmanians, in spite of their human likeness, were entirely swept out of existence in a war of extermination waged by European immigrants, in the space of fifty years.”

  125. Resident Dissident

    4 May, 2014 - 1:47 pm

    Odessa is not far from Moldova, which is strongly pro-Russian, and may even cede to Russia before too long.

    Moldova is not strongly pro-Russia – a part of it Transdnistra is. Another demonstration of Mr Goss’s lack of knowledge about this part of the world.

  126. Further clarification following Craig @11:09:

    All I meant – and still mean by ‘Cheerio’ and leaving etc is that this blog is no longer on my grossly overcrowded RSS feed list. Nothing more. Which in turn means that I am unlikely to see further posts or contribute comments unless specifically pointed at them from elsewhere.

    As a clearly principled individual who has paid a heavy price for his honesty, I still wish Craig well but there are many many other sources of informed comment and analysis competing for attention and, for reasons discussed in many previous post comments, this blog has been moving steadily down my ‘must-read’ list; that’s all. Craig’s Russo-phobia is simply the last straw for me.

    Thanks to supportive commentators and I expect the wiki to be online for the foreseeable future.

  127. You do show your ignorance RD time and again. 27% of the population of Chisinau, the capital, is Russian. A lot of the culture too is Russian. Transnistra treats itself separately and is a very thin strip of land.on the border of Ukraine.

    Another demonstration of Dr jekyll’s lack of knowledge about this part of the world.

  128. New
    Pro-Russian activists attack the main police station in Odessa in south Ukraine, two days after violence left some 42 people dead.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27276120

  129. Ashton in that speech to the Ministerial Council of the OSCE December 2012.

    ‘Mr Chairman, as you have indicated, protracted conflicts continue to pose a serious threat to stability in the OSCE region. The conflicts in Georgia, in the Republic of Moldova and the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict are costly, both politically and economically. And they also put limitations on international cooperation.

    We continue to play a key role in the resolution of these conflicts, by co-chairing the Geneva talks and participating in the “5+2” negotiations on Transnistria. The time has come in the negotiations for the parties to agree on the basic principles for a future settlement. The EU supports confidence building measures to help this process.’

    http://www.consilium.europa.eu/uedocs/cms_Data/docs/pressdata/EN/foraff/134083.pdf

    She’s into everything and everywhere with her own fascist foreign service set up.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_External_Action_Service

  130. Ah yes, Wikispooks.

    I had a look at the site some time ago – the 9/11 page I think it was. There was a long list of the alleged masterminds, all with a little Star of David pictured next to their image. Lovely.

    Afraid to say I didn’t venture any further into the site.

  131. Why was this body inflicted on us when there is a United Nations organisation. All part of the political superstructure of the good ship SS European Union. Does anyone else remember when the EU started as the ‘Common Market’?

    OSCE: Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe
    http://www.osce.org/who/108218

    Does the existence of the OSCE explain why Mr Ban Ki Moon is so quiet at the moment?

  132. Resident Dissident

    4 May, 2014 - 3:08 pm

    Carry on digging Mr Goss

    What proportion of the population of Moldova is Russian?
    What are the other 73% of Chisinau?
    Why is it now Chisinau rather than Chisinov?
    What is the main language in Moldova?
    To what other European language is it closely related?
    Which members of the United Nations recognise Transdnistria as a separate state (Mr Goss obviously does – probably as it is the last Stalinist enclave within Europe and therefore a good thing in the eyes of himself and Putin) ?
    How does having 27% of the population in the capital equate to the entire country being strongly pro Russian?
    To which country does Moldova always give 12 points in Eurovision?
    Is the US hiding the Malaysian Airlines plane in the Rezina limestone quarry?

    You really ha

  133. “You really ha ”

    Spit it out man.

  134. R.D. Have you been to Moldova?

  135. Resident Dissident

    4 May, 2014 - 3:18 pm

    “All part of the political superstructure of the good ship SS European Union.”

    Hardly the old Soviet states were members from the beginning

    http://www.osce.org/who/history

    Of course old Soviets never had much time for the Helsinki Accords and all that bad behaviour it encouraged among its psychiatric patients.

  136. Resident Dissident

    4 May, 2014 - 3:20 pm

    John Goss

    Yes on work – some of my wife’s relatives were also sent there against their will.

  137. And what language did you use?

  138. Sorry, RD, what language did you speak in Moldova?

  139. Resident Dissident

    4 May, 2014 - 3:34 pm

    Mainly English and a bit of Russian – but only because my Romanian/Moldovan (and the locals will insist there is a difference) is non existent. Yes in the old Soviet days – the local bosses were all Russian and the locals were forced to learn Russian – but I think you will find things have moved on from the old colonial days.

  140. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 3:40 pm

    BTW; Squonk, an astute observer, watched the entire live-feed. He saw the police standing inert while the victims sought refuge in the building subsequently and intentionally set ablaze.

  141. I had heard that Raisa Gorbachova was a Tartar and that it was she who had persuaded her husband to allow for a partial return of the Tartars to Crimea, but looking for confirmation of this online I found a Guardian obituary that suggested that it was her critics who had described her as Tartar – was she, and if so did she express a Tartar identity?

  142. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 3:42 pm

  143. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 3:45 pm

    Hat Tip to Sofia for the link. The People know what’s going on.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=75dlup0WXGY#t=0

  144. lucydiclonius

    4 May, 2014 - 3:49 pm

    “Putin’s campaign of controlling the urban centres appears to have gone wrong in Odessa, which is simply too large for the numbers of available young men armed with baseball bats to take control. The pro-Russians were badly beaten in precisely the same street fighting they had been winning elsewhere. The culmination of this was the terrible fire and deaths. My expectation is there will not be many women, children or old people among the dead, but also there will not be many non-Ukrainian nationals. I expect these will prove to have been local Russian young men.”

    Recognized identities of the victims of Odessa fire

    1. Biryukov Andrey, 1978 – G.S.W.
    2. Brozhevskiy Andrey, 1987 – fall from the high floor
    3. Bulakh Victor, 1956 – fall from the high floor
    4. Varenikina Anna, 1955 – choke on smoke
    5. Egorskiy Nikolay, 1976 – G.S.W.
    6. Zhylkov Aleksandr, 1968 – G.S.W.
    7. Ivanov Igor, 1987 – G.S.W.
    8. Kalin Anatoliy, 1976 – fall from the high floor
    9. Markin Vyacheslav, 1969 – deputy of the Regional Council, succumb to injuries in hospital
    10. Mishin Sergey, 1986 – died by fire
    11. Negaturov Vadim, 1959- Odessa poet, died by fire
    12. Nikitenko Maksim, 1982 – fall from the high floor
    13. Petrov Gennadiy, 1985 – G.S.W.
    14. Sadovnichiy Aleksandr, 1954 – died by fire

  145. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 3:51 pm

    Lucy; Brutal images of the guys who jumped to get out of the fire being stomped after the fall, according to Squonk.

  146. YouKnowMyName

    4 May, 2014 - 4:00 pm

    A historical – not hysterical – analysis of Crimea a decade ago puts ‘that corner of a foreign field that is forever Russia’ in context.
    [RFE/RL] no longer overtly CIA, has an interesting 5-part article on the ethnic/Russian situation in Crimea

    A typical hysterical news item of the moment claims that the FBI & CIA are overtly assisting Kiev – but its in German

    Meanwhile FBI.gov doesn’t specifically include maintenance of a perceived failing neo-con coup-d’etat located 4873 miles east of Washington as one of its key-roles, but presumably they have a different opinion on this!

  147. lucydiclonius

    4 May, 2014 - 4:03 pm

    Ben The G S W after the names indicates the victims were hacked to death after they leaped from the buildings .

  148. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 4:05 pm

  149. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 4:06 pm

    Dreoilin; Obama is nothing, if not self-deprecatory in his humor. It seems to play into his hands.

  150. When I lived in Romania you could tell the market traders who came from Moldova because they all spoke Russian to one another. I gave one of them a copy of Bunin’s “хорошая жизнь” (The Good Life) because it is a short story about a woman who opened a shop. She told me later how much she had enjoyed it.

    There is also an area in Bucharest called Bassarabia, not far from Gare de Nord, which it would seem takes its name from that region of Moldova with the same name. Now in Romania the older generation were taught Russian but after Ceausescu nobody, or very few, learnt it. That was how it was easy to tell the difference between Romanians and Moldovans. Today, I think you will find that Russian is still widely spoken in Moldova.

  151. Lucy:

    I’m pretty sure G.S.W. stands for gun shot wound. Where is that list sourced from btw?

  152. Forget history. I firmly believe Russian or NATO tanks will not roll into Ukraine. The Ukraine Putsch was more about the West gaining control in Syria as I suggested in an earlier post and now witnessed in a cavalier antiseptic piece by Anne-Marie Slaughter:

    http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/anne-marie-slaughter-on-how-us-intervention-in-the-syrian-civil-war-would-alter-vladimir-putin-s-calculus-in-ukraine

    The best way forward is to admonish and burn into the memories of so many main stream exceptionalist, group thinking ‘zombies’ the recent history of Iraq.

    Those who forget or fail to grasp the U.S. corporate media’s regurgitation of the manifold and manifestly deceitful justifications for U.S. actions abroad.

    Let these brain-washed empty suits visit Fallujah, a town in dispensable Iraq. Let them witness the increases in the incidence of cancer, especially childhood leukemia, as well as a broad spectrum of birth defects like congenital heart disease, spina bifida and hydrocephalus.

    “Putin bad; Putin very bad. Shame on him; he sometimes has no shirt on, even on a horse. Bad, bad Putin.”

  153. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 4:41 pm

    Mark; It’s amazing to me how few see the connection between Sevastapol and Tartus.

  154. lucydiclonius

    4 May, 2014 - 4:44 pm

    I think its via Andre Fomine at Oriental Review you can find him on facebook

  155. lucydiclonius

    4 May, 2014 - 4:50 pm

    Cheeba Its from the South Front page on facebook prepare yourself for some gruesome pics

  156. WHAT DOES THE US WANT IN UKRAINE – PEACE OR WAR?
    “It is the function of the CIA to keep the world unstable, and to propagandize and teach the American people to hate, so we will let the Establishment spend any amount of money on arms.”– John Stockwell, former CIA official and author
    Note: John Stockwell was station chief in Southern Africa at the time the Cubans sent troops to help liberate South Africa and destroy the Apartheid system – so he should know what he is talking about.
    At present Zbigniew Brzezinski in his recent article “What Obama Should Tell Americans About Ukraine”says, inter alia, this about the Ukraine crisis:-
    “Obama should convey clearly to Russian President Vladimir Putin that the United States is prepared to use its influence to ensure that a truly independent and territorially undivided Ukraine pursues policies toward Russia similar to those so effectively practiced by Finland: mutually respectful neighbors, wide-ranging economic relations both with Russia and the European Union, but no participation in any military alliance viewed by Moscow as directed at itself – while also expanding its European connectivity. The Finnish model may be the ideal example for Ukraine, the EU and Russia.”
    Brzezinski ostensibly does not want a situation to escalate with Russia to the point where there is another Cuban Missile crisis situation. However he fails to ask himself some simple and logical questions by parity of reasoning:-
    1. Would the US tolerate missiles being placed on its backdoor in Mexico – or – again in Cuba? This is the parallel situation where if Ukraine becomes a NATO member – then the Ukraine is thereby committed to potential belligerent support of NATO – or – might take offensive action against Russia – backed by NATO?
    2. When a man like Henry Kissinger – or – Zbigniew Brzezinski uses the phrase, “ a threat to the international system” – are they not really saying “ a threat to a banking system raping the world and steadily falling into disfavor with Americans who are out of a job” – or – “a threat to the power balance where the US and Israel dominate and a group of bankers dictate to the lesser mortals around the world”?
    3. When a man like Brzezinski in his article ( quoted above) states further, “”Above all the president must clarify why we cannot tolerate an international system in which countries are invaded by thugs and destabilized from abroad” …
    Was/is it not the US which had fabricated the facts to fit the war in Iraq; is at war in Afghanistan; is busy destabilizing Venezuela; supports a proxy war in Syria; destroyed Libya; and – since the first successful CIA led coup in Iran – has been time and time again interfering in or destroying countries futures in places such as the Philippines, Chile and on and on and on. Just beautiful! So with that kind of track record – what is the true motive of the US in Ukraine?
    Are we all brain dead – or- is the US position on Ukraine likely to be any different than what has transpired before? And here is the same Brzezinski who supported the Mujahidin ( which morphed into the Taliban):-
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaiJtLrEwVU
    Remember – as Brzezinski reminds us – it is “ a deep belief in God” that keeps these wasteful and wicked wars going.
    What a way to run a peaceful world!
    Idiotic warmongers!
    CB
    Footnote: Published here in Sweden: http://parnassen.wordpress.com/2014/05/04/peace-or-war-what-does-the-us-want-in-ukraine-brzezinski-har-svaret/#comments
    PS. And this is a fairly level headed and accurate analysis of the Ukrainian crisis worth listening to, if a better understanding is desired:-
    http://www.corbettreport.com/interview-871-geneva-business-insider-with-david-smith/

  157. Resident Dissident

    4 May, 2014 - 4:54 pm

    “Today, I think you will find that Russian is still widely spoken in Moldova.”

    That is not the same as saying it is spoken more than Moldovan or that Moldova is strongly pro Russian – as you know all too well.

    If you were such an expert then you should be able to provide definitive and current answers to my questions.

  158. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    4 May, 2014 - 4:57 pm

    Mary

    “Ref http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/05/world-domination/#comment-455925

    Has the thought occurred that Obama might – might just – have been LAUGHING IN OUR FACES?????”
    _______________________

    Well, that thought obviously occurred to you, which is why you posted your original comment.

    And the thought that occurred to me was that Obama may have been making a joke at his own expense.

    You see, Mary, some people – I don’t count you among them of course – have a sense of humour.

    And now get back into that jar of pickling vinegar! :)

  159. Lucy; Brutal images of the guys who jumped to get out of the fire being stomped after the fall, according to Squonk.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbeUmpQ_4nU

  160. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 5:03 pm

    Mary has a refined sense of humor which doesn’t include laughing about Obama’s disingenous operations. Others laugh at n***** jokes displaying their misanthropic bona fides.

  161. Look closely especially at 5-7 seconds in – left side.

  162. the Lemniscat
    ‏@theLemniscat

    #WTF?
    Israeli citizen Kolomoisky, coup-Gov of Dnipropetrovsk sets a bounty for hunting “separatists” #Ukraine pic.twitter.com/hK2G5RQ6IS

  163. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 5:14 pm

  164. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    4 May, 2014 - 5:15 pm

    “If you were such an expert then you should be able to provide definitive and current answers to my questions.”
    _________________

    The real answer, Resident Dissident, is that John Goss – truly the Insolent Squatter – has no expertise at all in matters Eastern European or Russian. Apart, of course, from some knowledge of the language, a good indoctrination in Marxist thought and (possibly) a couple of cycling tours in the region.

    What he does have, however, is an unerring ability to get his facts wrong, to swallow everything put out by RT (for example), to produce red herrings, straw men and ad hominems and to divert as soon as he has his back against the wall in any discussion. He is, in essence, a bad (and sad) case of the phenomenon George Orwell so cleverly identified as “transferred nationalism”. He is simply incorrigible (in the true sense of that word).

    Hope that helps!

  165. lucydiclonius

    4 May, 2014 - 5:15 pm

    Squonk Yes I can see it its very clear what is happening in that video

  166. I’ll try and make that clickable

    pic.twitter.com/hK2G5RQ6IS

  167. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    4 May, 2014 - 5:26 pm

    Have just spotted this one from Mr Goss:

    “Odessa is not far from Moldova, which is strongly pro-Russian, and may even cede to Russia before too long.”
    __________________________

    Yes, which is presumably why Moldova (with strong support from Romania) has ambitions to move closer to and eventually join the European Union?

    The man really is a mendacious fool.

  168. “If you were such an expert then you should be able to provide definitive and current answers to my questions.”

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/04/the-apartheid-israel-poison-is-out/#comment-455947

  169. RD, since they are your questions, and you obviously have answers to them, why don’t you share them. I did not ask you:

    “How can you tell the difference between Moldovan and Romanian market traders in Romania”. I gave you the reason. Perhaps you would like to do the same.

    As to speaking Russian in Moldova all my Moldovan friends do. They also speak Romanian. I think you will find more speaking Romanian towards the Romanian border, more speaking Russian towards the Ukrainian border.

    Hope this helps.

  170. I’ve just turned Habbabreak on. I wonder why people take a break from this twat from time to time.

  171. Channel 4 News in 30 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/lindseyhilsum

    Lindsey Hilsum ‏@lindseyhilsum 10m

    Reporting from @Donetsk @channel4news tonight including extraordinary scenes shot in #Odessa. Early time: 6.30pm

  172. What a magic piece of software. Thank you Afrend.

  173. lucydiclonius

    4 May, 2014 - 6:11 pm

    What proportion of the population of Moldova is Russian?
    What are the other 73% of Chisinau?
    Why is it now Chisinau rather than Chisinov?
    What is the main language in Moldova?
    To what other European language is it closely related?
    Which members of the United Nations recognise Transdnistria as a separate state (Mr Goss obviously does – probably as it is the last Stalinist enclave within Europe and therefore a good thing in the eyes of himself and Putin) ?
    How does having 27% of the population in the capital equate to the entire country being strongly pro Russian?
    To which country does Moldova always give 12 points in Eurovision?
    Is the US hiding the Malaysian Airlines plane in the Rezina limestone quarry?

    1 Depends whether you include Transnistria or not.Theres quite a lot of Ukranians ,a
    large Roma population and a few Bulgarian villages.There is also Gaugaziz which is semi autonomous Gaugazians are a Turkic people.
    2 Id imagine your looking for Romanian as an answer they might call themselves Moldovans .People mix in cities not everyone is narrow minded .
    3 Looks like a change from the Russian to the Moldavian spelling.
    4 Moldavian ….artificial language to manufacture a Moldavian identity during Moldavianisation its Romanian essentially .
    5 see above
    6 Smirnoffs gone the new administration which includes the gorgeous Nina Shtanski is not Stalinist.”Its not communist its in-between” source Moldavian peasant from a Ukranian speaking village founded by Cossacks .
    Transnistria is recognised by South Ossetia and Nagorno Karabash if it had a US base rather than a Soviet one it would be recognised by USA,Israel and Palau within minutes the rest to follow.It was never part of Romania which would have a better claim to Bessarabia.Moldavia had an elected communist government I take it you prefer the Iron Guard?
    7 It doesn’t though Gagauzia likewise would like to trade with Russia and people are frightened of a revived fascism.
    8 Dont know 1/100 Romania,100/1 bar
    9 Definitely

  174. Resident Dissident

    4 May, 2014 - 6:15 pm

    “How can you tell the difference between Moldovan and Romanian market traders in Romania”. I gave you the reason. Perhaps you would like to do the same.

    Perhaps you couldn’t tell the difference between the market traders speaking Moldovan and those speaking Romanian as the two tongues are pretty similar, but not identical as most Moldovans will tell you.

    I think I will leave you to answer my questions – I would like to give you the benefit of realising and correcting your original error. To say that a whole country wishes to cede to Russia based upon your market trader anectdote from many years ago when Moldova was part of the Soviet Empire and you were providing financial support to the egregious Ceausecu really doesn’t constitute evidence of even the most basic kind.

  175. Courtney, thanks for that lawyer’s analysis, which is difficult to argue against.

    AlcAnon/Squonk, thanks for the forthcoming Lindsey Hilsum report at 6.30 p.m. reporting from Donetsk on Channel 4. With the footage from Odessa there will hopefully be less bias than the BBC which describes the pro-Russians as ‘rebels’ despite the good guys being an unelected government.

  176. Resident Dissident

    4 May, 2014 - 6:19 pm

    “Moldavia had an elected communist government I take it you prefer the Iron Guard?”

    Don’t be stupid – and would you care to speculate what its stance would be on ceding to Russia?

  177. “Perhaps you couldn’t tell the difference between the market traders speaking Moldovan and those speaking Romanian as the two tongues are pretty similar, but not identical as most Moldovans will tell you.”

    You’re wrong again. The only difference is guttural inflection and a few odd words which might even be described as an accent, like Geordie for example.

  178. lucydiclonius

    4 May, 2014 - 6:24 pm

    I dont think Moldova wishes to cede to Russia Transnistria is another matter.

  179. John,

    You shy away like this:-

    ” Courtney, thanks for that lawyer’s analysis, which is difficult to argue against.”

    And I have read you against some quite belligerent and/or aggressive opponents.

    A “debate mouse” like me should be quite easy prey for you – surely.

    Smile.

    CB

    PS. But, don’t punch too hard – I am slim built ( ha…ha.. – just teasing).

  180. Resident Dissident

    4 May, 2014 - 6:35 pm

    “The real answer, Resident Dissident, is that John Goss – truly the Insolent Squatter – has no expertise at all in matters Eastern European or Russian. Apart, of course, from some knowledge of the language, a good indoctrination in Marxist thought and (possibly) a couple of cycling tours in the region.”

    I really would question the indoctrination in Marxist thought given his undying support for all things Putin. Perhaps John might wish to explain how Putin and his oligarch friends do not constitute a rentier class exploiting the vast mass of the Russian population.

  181. Paul

    “many of the Neo-Nazis west of the Dnieper”. What oercentage of the population West of the Dnieper are you characterizing as Nazi?

  182. CB, that really made me smile. Thanks. There is so little humour, and to be honest, not much to laugh at these days, but thanks to you, and Sofia, we can suffer the trolling with a few smiles and the odd belly laugh.

  183. My comment earlier. Perhaps Habbabkuk could tell us which country he posts from that is one hour ahead of BST?

    ‘Habbabkuk seems to be in a time zone that is different to the UK’s?? He says he posted a comment to Technicolour at 13.25hrs on the apartheid thread. It actually went up at 12.25hrs BST.

    ???

    Answer please. Germany? France? Poland?

  184. Alacanon,

    I don’t know what that video shows. 5 seconds in there is a guy on the far left brutally attacking somebody on the floor. Whether that person on the floor jumped from the building, or whether he is on the floor because of the brutal attack, we cannot know. Who the person on the floor is, or who the attacker is, we don’t know. There are other people on the floor to his right.

    Then there is a cut for at least several seconds, as the man in black who was attacking has either gone or substantially changed position (the figures are blurred). Several people fall from the building. Nobody attacks any of them. At the end on the far right, one of them manages to get up and run away with nobody in shot making any move to stop him.

    While the people are jumping, nobody seems either to be attacking them – or to help them. It is not plain what the attitude of most of the people there is. Whether the tape is edited, or someone kept switching record on or off, is not plain.

    Your description makes the assumption that the guy who was on the floor being hit was one of those who had jumped. That is certainly possible, but it is far from the only possibility. The video does not actually show anybody jumping and then being attacked. In fact, it shows several people jumping and not being attacked.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbeUmpQ_4nU

  185. I am deleting comments that simply post links to diatribes by one side or the other – be they Brzezinski or some equally odious Prof from Moscow University.

  186. Lucythediclonius

    On that limited sample of victims my surmise was right. 93% male and no children. I have been on scores of political demonstrations, but never a 93% male one.

  187. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 7:13 pm

    Fine. Delete away. One point though; who is Paul?

  188. So let us say this goes the western US/UK/EU/NATO way, discounting (always a mistake) Russia entirely. It seems to me the largely agricultural western Ukraine is being gifted to Germany/the EU thus effectively, generously compensating Germany primarily for the loss of largely agricultural East Prussia, and part of present day western Poland: Germany’s former breadbasket, without which the difficulties in feeding Germany’s distressed people’s after the western-elite created and backed Hitler had wrought his worst, became acute and the country as so structured could never be anything other than a dependant dollar demoninated ‘world war two’ theme park. If the Kiev fascist’s putsch stands then much more will unravel, for a long time fascist elements in Poland have eyed those parts of Belarus which were formely part of the artificial re-created Polish state which existed between Versailles and the 1939 German occupation of Poland, Poland’s own fascist elements there had already unbidden, perhaps to ingratiate themselves with their Nazi idols, passed in 1938 discriminatory anti-semitic laws comparable to Germany’s own. I wish I could see a third option for Ukraine, a middle course between Moscow and Washington/Berlin centred subjugation and ruin, plus the depredations of ‘local’ oligarchs, tethered to no-land, and to nothing but their sense of entitlement to engorge themselves on whatever they choose, but realise this was exactly the line pursued by the Yanukovych government from which the people and country inevitably endured economic hardship, straddling a difficult line and whom the United State’s new pet nazis brutally toppled, the least worst option for all of Ukraine’s people then is the one the US just gleefully discarded. Neither Russia’s oligarchs nor its people will submit to death by a thousand pricks of US-inspired flea-bites from ultra-violent ultra-nazi anti-Russian hireling murderers.

    I can only presume from this the US and the UK will not stop fomenting war until devastating crushing total war has been visited upon their own people and nations and in that process the whole planet inevitably destroyed. The habitabilty of this fragile earth – this unstable vulnerable purely chance biosphere which is our highly-convoluted life-support system – and therefore continued human existence is already extremely doubtful due to our many nuclear follies, climate change though real is not even the same order of magnitude threat to our entire species. Shute’s ‘On the Beach’ scenario of a southern hemisphere unaffected by radiation, risibly unfounded, as no place on earth can offer even temporary respite, however deep the deep-state might dig themselves.

    By the time you read this comment, the situation will have become worse.

  189. Resident Dissident

    4 May, 2014 - 7:24 pm

    “You’re wrong again. The only difference is guttural inflection and a few odd words which might even be described as an accent, like Geordie for example.”

    So you were able to tell that the Romanian traders were not in fact Moldovans speaking “Romanian”, merely on the basis of their accent.

    We still have to see your evidence for your original statement that Moldova is pro Russian and may cede to Russia.

  190. Resident Dissident

    4 May, 2014 - 7:28 pm

    “I wish I could see a third option for Ukraine, a middle course between Moscow and Washington/Berlin centred subjugation and ruin, plus the depredations of ‘local’ oligarchs, tethered to no-land, and to nothing but their sense of entitlement to engorge themselves on whatever they choose, but realise this was exactly the line pursued by the Yanukovych government”

    If you believe that the Yanukovych government was seeking to avoid the depredations of local oligarchs you really are living in a fantasy word – just what proportion of government contracts were being awarded to his son?

  191. Craig,
    That was just one clip I found that someone has posted. I was watching the whole thing live and there were a number of scenes of the wounded being attacked after the fire brigade rescued them.

    By the way in today’s live streams, much of the crowd who descended on the Odessa police station were elderly ladies with umbrellas, in the pouring rain, demanding the release of their relatives. The news coverage on BBC and Channel 4 of course focused on the few aggressive elements at the front but they couldn’t quite get all the umbrellas out of shot in the Channel 4 footage. You see the tops of the umbrellas but we weren’t shown the old ladies underneath them.

    In case you think I only see nice old ladies on the Russian side, the pro-Russian crowd in Donetsk today most certainly does not consist mainly of old ladies and there could be a lot more trouble coming in Donetsk if things can’t be calmed down.

    In general the live streams have been very patchy today. Dropping out more often than they are up.

  192. lucythediclonius

    4 May, 2014 - 7:32 pm

    Craig you originally said young men and an earlier quote referred to baseball bats.I do have photographs of a pregnant woman killed in the fire which I can’t verify .It was a tent city which was originally attacked if there was any foreknowledge of the fascists being bussed in I don’t think many people would bring their children.

  193. Craig,

    Hope with this:-
    ” I am deleting comments that simply post links to diatribes by one side or the other – be they Brzezinski or some equally odious Prof from Moscow University.”
    That I did not stoke your ire.
    Indeed I mentioned Brzezinski and quoted from what he has recently prescribed. But, I did proceed in a logical way to denounce not only his hypocrisy, but his truly less than credible approach to issues of global governance.
    I do not hold any exalted position. I am merely a global citizen who fully understands that the present situation in Ukraine can easily spiral out of control and then strong and determined powers may then be staring each other down the barrels of guns – or even worse yet – be on the opposite sides of nuclear missiles threatening their use. More likely, Ukraine and its population becomes the pawn in a totally unnecessary proxy civil war.
    How do we bring some sanity to the international bargaining table – or is it all just Western and Eastern oligarchs and a corrupt banking system running the world?
    Assuming now – that nothing I have said on this blog makes me any time soon – a candidate for excommunication.
    CB

  194. Courtenay,

    No, it your comment wasn’t a problem. Referencing and quoting in argument is fine. I deleted a couple of comments which weren’t anything except links to other places, one of them Brzezinski.

    Alconon

    Thanks for the clarification. That’s pretty appalling, the attack on ambulances. Certainly there are plenty of mixed groups on both sides. But both sides also have attack forces that are a very different kind of thing. I really don’t know what happened at the trades union building, but the profile of the dead would give us a clue. We wait to learn more. Also I am not entirely sure what the status of the building was just before, and if entirely random people might have been visiting it.

    Obviously the loss of life , any life, is tragic. But if you are using violence as a tactic (as it is beyond denial pro-Russian forces are) then you can’t really claim to be horrified if you get hurt. Same goes for the other side too. In my mind, it makes a huge difference if this was a bunch of men acting violently, or a mixed group from a peaceful camp. I say that while genuinely not knowing which it is.

  195. Lucythediclonius

    Young is relative. They are younger than me, and I don’t consider myself physically unable! The Ukrainian side are claiming that the majority were Russian citizens or Transnistrians brought in to cause trouble. It would be a bold claim to make if they are lying, as obviously the bodies will be identified.

  196. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 8:19 pm

    Thanks AA.

    Why didn’t take Russian instead of Spanish?

  197. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 8:20 pm

    ‘Why didn’t I take……..’ :)

  198. Alcanon

    Amazing. Are you sure it’s live?

  199. Craig.

    Yes live. It matches up with real time tweets.

    It is this tv channel http://www.1tv.od.ua/

  200. Resident Dissident

    4 May, 2014 - 8:45 pm

    For those who don’t think Russia has a fascist problem

    https://twitter.com/svaboda/status/461784538176585728/photo/1

    From Putin’s home town on Mayday

  201. Resident Dissident

    4 May, 2014 - 8:49 pm

    And as expected the persecution of the Crimean Tatars has now started

    http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russia-to-prosecute-crimean-tatar-protesters-over-unrest/499385.html

    Do the Putinistas care?

  202. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 8:50 pm

    Many countries have a fascist problem. But for some, it’s no problema.

  203. Resident Dissident

    4 May, 2014 - 8:54 pm

    For those who are interested in some balance when it comes to reporting on what happened in Odessa

    http://www.interpretermag.com/russia-this-week-new-us-sanctions-hit-closer-to-putin/

    As I said before I don’t think either side comes out of this well – and something needs to be done to de-escalate matters rather than whipping them up PDQ

  204. RD

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/01/moscow-may-day-parade-red-square

    In St Petersburg, where gay rights demonstrations have been attacked and dispersed over the past year, about 50 LGBT activists were able to march peacefully as part of a rally for democracy, while neo-nazis held a separate demonstration. A large police contingent prevented hostile political groups from clashing, said St Petersburg LGBT activist Igor Kochetkov.

    “Those who wanted to attack the LGBT column decided not to do this because the police were reacting harshly to any provocations,” Kochetkov said. “It’s the day of the year when the authorities allow all rallies and demonstrations, and so everyone comes out on 1 May, nationalists, communists, environmentalists,” he added.

  205. I didn’t really think I’d see anything balanced from you RD but thought I’d take a look anyway, and in a very short piece, hardly an article at all, I found this:

    “While 100,000 marched in official May Day parade on Red Square with aggressive patriotic messages, . . .”

    You have been weighed in the balancing scales and found wanting again.

  206. Might as well describe what we just watched on the live feed Alconon posted.

    A large crowd of Ukrainians carrying Ukrainian flags walked through the streets to the trades union building where the tragedy happened. When they got there, they posted guards to make sure the crowd didn’t accidentally trample on the floral tributes on the ground. Then they climbed a scaffold and replaced the Ukrainian flag on the large flagpole outside, at half mast (either from respect or because there was no rope and they couldn’t get it higher). They then took off their hats and held a silence for those who died in the building, which was completely observed. They then sang the Ukrainian national anthem, there were some shouts of “Glory to Ukraine” and then they went home.

    Waiting for someone to claim they were all fascists.

  207. Resident Dissident

    4 May, 2014 - 9:13 pm

    “I didn’t really think I’d see anything balanced from you RD but thought I’d take a look anyway, and in a very short piece, hardly an article at all,”

    Well of course it is isn’t balanced from your perspective Mr Goss – independent Russian sources never are. On a factual level – to describe the coverage of Odessa as very short is just plain wrong – it covers 9 screens, contains a number of videos and several links to supporting documentation. Certainly rather more evidence than you have provided to support your ridiculous assertion about Moldova.

  208. Resident Dissident

    4 May, 2014 - 9:19 pm

    Alcanon

    Rather different story on the LGBT march on the link I have already provided from the Interpreter – you need to scroll down the page to find the details, perhaps you could help Mr Goss to do this so that he can get past the very short article at the beginning.

  209. I agree what we saw there was peaceful. Tweets from those on the ground say that there was a more sinister element present but they were out-numbered and kept away from the area in front of the building by the majority of the crowd.

  210. Alcanon

    Or it could be that you are following tweets from people who have a tenuous connection to truth-telling.

  211. RD,

    Yes the LGBT march in Moscow was attacked as per your article. The one in St Petersburg was apparently protected by the police.

  212. Resident Dissident

    4 May, 2014 - 9:23 pm

    Some nice people at Mr Goss’s May Day parade with a non aggressive message for us all

    https://twitter.com/adagamov/status/461831951767597056/photo/1

    Yes that really is Beria!

  213. Resident Dissident

    4 May, 2014 - 9:27 pm

    Yes let’s all take our vacation in the Crimea, especially now that the Leader of the Crimean Tatars is now banned for 5 years.

    https://twitter.com/adagamov/status/461813178855620608/photo/1

  214. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 9:32 pm

    “Sieg heil’ should be the nomenclature for EU and IMF cronies. The die is cast in lead. Surrender or die.

  215. Keith Crosby

    4 May, 2014 - 9:35 pm

    ~~~~~the tragic deaths in Odessa~~~~~

    Is this a FO euphemism for a nazi crime?

  216. AlcAnon, Craig, I’m watching listening to a programme in Russian on your link which has two medical consultants discussing matters of a medical nature. Do I have to log in by any chance for the live stream? There is a blue button saying you can do so using Facebook etc.

  217. What do you do, when you suddenly had to grow up at the age of 15,and you work really hard for it and 10 years later it seems you have everything – and are literally flying…and the love of your life blows you away…for the final time

    Well I cried myself to sleep…

    In the morning I was a new man….then it gets worse…

    You’ve lost her – You then lose your job ….and you can’t get another…yet you tried so hard…..and you are about to lose your house…???

    What do you do then???

    Crawl into your hole and die?

    I was just thinking – can it possibly get any worse???

    But I had to grow up young, and my Mum had such incredible determination having survived 2 world wars…

    Maybe I am a bit Scottish…

    Cos today 35 years later was a Perfect Day…

    It took my wife and I 3 years to get the band on…and they played for 4 hours – with all their families and friends…and it was heaving…

    So you can survive…

    Just dust yourself off – get your bike fixed – climb back on it and ride it again.

    No one else is going to do it for you.

    You have to do it for yourself – prove to yourself that you are a Creep and a Winner. (there’s maybe a radiohead song or two in there). Sometimes you have to crawl your way back up out of the hole…

    Blimey the sun is shining…who are you????

    And the angel takes my hand

    Tony

  218. Craig,

    They are mainly journalists I pay attention to. I can’t see any reason why there wouldn’t be a violent minority element looking for trouble – you can get that anywhere/anytime. I see it as a positive sign that the few who were out to cause trouble tonight were kept away by the majority.

  219. John

    Live coverage seems to be over for the night.

  220. The mess which is Ukraine was both predictable and predicted – and it could get worse, though I suspect that few inhabitants of that land actually want to get into some serious blood-letting. That is why it is not a particularly good thing for outsiders to interfere in it or for westerners to use the place as a rope in a tug-o-war with Moscow.

    If my memory is correct (and if, in its turn, the fact that I read was accurate),then neither Crimea or Donbass voted to go with Russia on the breakup of the Soviet Union [Connor O'Cleary; The Last Day of the Soviet Union]. Thus it is by no means clear that the citizens of Eastern Ukraine would vote to do so now, though if they feel rejected and unwanted they might. It is also a plausible assumption that the Crimeans might now feel as if they are better off out of it and be jolly glad that they are part of Russia again.

    But surely we could cut Russia some slack as regards eastern Ukraine and Crimea. They aren’t just any other part of the world bearing a relationship to each other similar to that between South Africa and Japan (for example). Is it not more like Germany & Austria, or Sweden, Norway and Denmark, or France and francophone Belgium. Refusal to do so would seem to suggest a complete inability to see anything from someone else’s point of view. And though Crimea has only been part of Russia since the time of C. the G., it has nonetheless featured strongly in Russian history being on the trade route from Kiev to Byzantium. It is not a far-away place of which they know little.

  221. RD you really do not know me. Not only was I not at the Red Square May Day parade, I was not at the London parade, though perhaps I should have been since it commemorated the lives of two great peace campaigners, socialists, and members of originally Socialist Parties, one of which is now a Neocon disgrace, though I have a good friend who would disagree.

  222. Resident Dissident

    4 May, 2014 - 9:43 pm

    Just for Mr Goss to let him know that the International still unites the human race

    https://twitter.com/adagamov/status/461835820828479488/photo/1

  223. Alcanon, that will account for it perhaps.

  224. I wouldn’t want to live in North Korea, RD, nor even Russia. It is why I have chosen Birmingham. Regarding the International you need to talk to Obama and your Yankee friends about that. Live would be dreadful under a Trotsky world government, but even worse under a capitalist world government. Their already building the prisons in the US. You’ll have to look it up yourself. FEMA is the search word.

  225. Live = life

  226. Resident Dissident

    4 May, 2014 - 9:58 pm

    “Live would be dreadful under a Trotsky world government”

    Giving away your true colours there Mr Goss. The International continued to be sung in the Soviet Union long after your nemesis was despatched.

  227. John Goss at 954. Their = they’re. But this Californian blended red is rather good. Might regret it in the morning.

  228. Keith Crosby

    4 May, 2014 - 10:06 pm

    ~~~~~The difference between the Russian and British Empires, on the one hand, and the American Empire on the other, was that the Russians and British did not commit genocide of the existing populations.~~~~~

    Tasmania, Indian, Irish and Highland famines

    ~~~~~the British gave almost all of theirs back~~~~~

    No they didn’t they gave them to the Americans

    ~~~~~living conditions in the EU are just so much better~~~~~

    Come and have a look round Hull.

    ~~~~~That leads to extreme concentration of profit and a lack of employment opportunity. Combine that with mafia state corruption and you have the oligarchs’ paradise.~~~~~

    This is Britain.

    Has this essay been a party political broadcast on behalf of the Liberal Party (old style)?

  229. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 10:18 pm

    John; You’re not drinking Merlot, are you?

  230. Ukraine is volatile at the moment. I do not think anybody who comments here would want to see things get worse. Craig has said so, Resident Dissident has said so. neither do I, or anyone else with any sense, and I am sure nobody in the Ukraine would like to see a deterioration. There are enough failed states already.

    There has been unhappiness in Ukraine for many years, not just the last six months. But something happened to remove the relative stability. I will not spell it out again. People can make their own decisions about what happened and who was behind it. Historically I would like people who comment here, or everybody in fact, to think about how many reports of violence and death we heard of in Ukraine more than six months ago, and I don’t mean isolated incidents that a Google search might throw up.

    Similarly, look at Iraq before the terribly-named “Shock and awe” NATO attacks, other than deaths from ‘no-fly zones’. Likewise with Libya, where nearly everybody living there was happy before the war. Who benefited? Tony Buckingham for one. Buckingham bucks up the Conservative Party with donations that no doubt buy him favours.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/heritage-oil-founder-sells-to-qatari-sheikh-in-1bn-deal-9309140.html

  231. Can anyone translate this?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7DLMvsHmcI

    British journalist working for RT has just tweeted it
    https://twitter.com/GrahamWP_UK

    Apparently a claim that the death toll was far higher than so far admitted.

    I’m not posting that as a fact just hoping someone could translate.

  232. “John; You’re not drinking Merlot, are you?”

    I wish. No, it’s a cheap and pleasant blend which may have some Merlot in it. Actually this year is not as good as last year. If you want a good wine Ben I discovered a rather good organic French wine through a club called St Chinian. God I sound like a wine snob! :)

  233. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 10:34 pm

    JOHN; What do you suppose is the linch-pin or lever which distinguishes the Iraq debacle from the Ukraine, the EU?

  234. “JOHN; What do you suppose is the linch-pin or lever which distinguishes the Iraq debacle from the Ukraine, the EU?”

    Linch-pin, as I am sure you know is CHEKA in Russian, and I am sure the secret services of more than one country are behind this latest coup. The secret services, by their very name, are unaccountable. Putin came through the secret services and knows this. All the dirty tricks that destroy governments and therefore people’s lives which take place round the world are done by the secret services, including the Russian secret services. If we could get rid of secret services it would be a much better world.

  235. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 10:57 pm

    John; ‘Security services’ desperately want the EU, amirite? How does that figure into the region in question? (rhetorical question)

    The IMF must prevail.

  236. Sofia Kibo Noh

    4 May, 2014 - 11:04 pm

    AA. 9 37 pm

    “…I see it as a positive sign that the few who were out to cause trouble tonight were kept away by the majority.”

    Yes. Let’s be a part of that whatever continent we inhabit. Maybe today’s crowd of Ukrainians demonstrate that, once aware of a brutal reality done in their name, decent people can take a stand for humanity.

    It never was, and never will be, a bright idea to invite fascists to the party, for any reason.

    While it is clear that actual, fascists are a minority in Ukraine, I can’t imagine anyone claiming, with a straight face, that the mobilisation of violent ulra-right groups has not been a crucial plank in the scheme to bring Ukraine under the control of Western politico/corporate interests.

    Consider the words of Nuremburg prosecutor and Supreme Court Justice Robert H. Jackson, describing the Nazi war criminals at Nuremburg.

    Such figures, Jackson said, “are surprised that there is any such thing as law. They did not rely on any law at all. Their program ignored and defied all law, International Law, natural law, German law, any law at all was to these men simply a propaganda device to be invoked when it helped and to be ignored when it would condemn what they wanted to do.”

    Jackson argued strenuously that all those who supported or tolerated Nazis were guilty, not just those individuals then being tried.

    We’re responsible for being aware of what’s going on in our society. We can’t plead ignorance, especially now that technology enables us to check events and narratives from so many different perspectives.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GagXIYvnY1s
    ( Part 1, 10mins )

    From the 1961 Academy Award-winning film, “Judgment at Nuremberg”.

  237. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 11:06 pm

  238. The contracted internet language is a new language to me Ben, full of acronyms and unfamiliar expressions. You can’t keep up when you’re an old goat.

  239. Alan,

    Hard to make him out with all the noise – but he does say 116 people, he does say bomb and grenade, and he repeatedly refers to women. But not a lot of context – I don’t think he says anything about Nazis or fascists, despite the caption. I don’t think he says he is a policeman either. But between my rusty Russian and all the background chanting, not entirely sure.

  240. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 11:25 pm

    Alan; AlcAnon?

  241. Ben, 11:06 pm, that is a truly disturbing piece of footage. It was shot by somebody undercover who knew what he/she was doing, though I think there have been additions. The music should not have been there. There was nothing wrong with the music but that makes me a bit suspicious. However they could not have got that footage out as fast as they did if it was not real. I have already read reports about the busing of fascists into Odessa, but that really does disgust me, if not stage-managed, and to stage-manage it seems hardly possible in such a short time. However, it was the music that made me think it might have been stage-managed. I know a little about the arts.

  242. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 11:38 pm

    Fair point, John. Music is quite emotive. Film is even stronger propaganda and a bit of cynicism can be instructive. I wonder if Craig know this?

  243. Ben

    Actually I am glad that you posted that. Two things:
    a) The truly disturbing footage John refers to is of astonishing quality and the cameraman was able to go right up to uniformed fascists and put the camera right in their faces, again and again and again. Unless it was Adolf Hitler on the camera, was not their cooperation with the camera a bit strange? A very simple question for you. When and where was it shot? If you don’t know the answer, why are you posting it?

    b) Much more interesting are the comments beneath from Che Pasa in which he purports to give an account of the events which AlcAnon and I were watching live tonight. His report is completely tendentious. He doesn’t mention the silence for the dead, and claims the Ukrainians were all right sector – of which there was absolutely zero evidence on the video. AlcAnon says there were because someone tweeted it. Invisible Pravy Sektor shock troops. Presumably they weren’t there because they were too busy making feature films like the one you link to?

  244. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 11:49 pm

    Craig; I find it rather odd that you can see propaganda from that perspective, but seem unable to recognize the wealth and power operating out of camera range.

    Why are you so insistent on the push for the EU and IMF regardless of the obvious hatred of IMF reforms including austerity within the Ukraine?

    Isn’t this something most Ukrainians agree on?

  245. John Goss

    There are feature film quality shots of a night time rally by fascists. This may be real (there are indeed fascists in Ukraine – just as there are in Russia). It may not. But the night-time scenes are intercut with daytime scenes of the fighting in Odessa, in the hope that really stupid people will think it is part of the same sequence of events.

    There is no evidence at all of where or when those night time fascist rally sequences were shot.

  246. Ben

    I think the EU is the best place to live in the World, by a long, long way. I am not at all fond of the IMF. But what I cherish most of all is being able to say and to campaign as I wish without Mr Putin’s men killing me. Russians don’t have that privilege.

  247. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 11:59 pm

    Craig; can the Ukraine have EU without the IMF? The bundled package makes your point less persuasive.

  248. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    5 May, 2014 - 12:04 am

  249. Ben

    Theoretically, yes. The problem is that it has either to repudiate its debt, or take an IMF loan with all the strings attached. A dilemma poor countries face all the time. They need to combine for a universal debt repudiation.

  250. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    5 May, 2014 - 12:06 am

    Resident Dissident

    ““The real answer, Resident Dissident, is that John Goss – truly the Insolent Squatter – has no expertise at all in matters Eastern European or Russian. Apart, of course, from some knowledge of the language, a good indoctrination in Marxist thought and (possibly) a couple of cycling tours in the region.”

    I really would question the indoctrination in Marxist thought given his undying support for all things Putin.”
    ____________________

    The two things are not inconsistent with each other. He now undyingly supports rasPutin. Had this blog existed before 1989, you would have found him undyingly supporting the old Soviet régime. The link is his support for hardline, left-fascist “government” and, more widely, his championing of everything he thinks stands up to the “evil capitalist” West.

  251. Craig,

    Gulliver Crag of France 24 was amongst those tweeting about the presence of the Right Sector on the streets tonight. He also tweeted that their sources said that The Right Sector would not attack tonight. Instead the Right Sector went to meet the new police chief according to him.

    https://twitter.com/gullivercragg

    Gulliver Cragg ‏@gullivercragg 4h
    pro #ukrainian forces including right sector in #Odessa told jrnlists they r heading instead to meet new police chief

    Gulliver Cragg ‏@gullivercragg 4h
    outside burnt #odessa trades union bldng where young right sector guys caled to atak there are just 30 mourners pic.twitter.com/NzOVfVuJRL

    Gulliver Cragg ‏@gullivercragg 4h
    one leader of #odessa’s pro ukrainian forces who has good connexions in right sector just told us they will NOT attack tonight

    http://www.france24.com/en/category/tags-auteurs/gulliver-cragg

    Anyway there was no violence tonight. I’d just like to see that continue.

  252. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    5 May, 2014 - 12:09 am

    “Answer please. Germany? France? Poland?”
    __________________

    Germany and France are UCT+2, Poland is UCT+3.

    I represent the truth and am therefore timeless.

  253. “Russians don’t have that privilege.”

    I am not sure that is right any more. Oligarchs get imprisoned in Russia, but that is probably where most of them should be. However I am not sure that Russian executes as many people as the US (especially with the despicable extra-judicial killings that take out others regardless of who they are. I believe mobile phones are used to identify the victims. As to oligarchs perhaps Tony Buckingham who you know a little about ought to be in prison too (see The independent link at 10.28 pm above).

  254. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    5 May, 2014 - 12:13 am

    Craig

    “I am deleting comments that simply post links to diatribes by one side or the other – be they Brzezinski or some equally odious Prof from Moscow University.”
    _______________

    “equally” – objection, m’Lud! why do you find Dr Brzezinski odious?

    Dobra noc!

  255. Sofia Kibo Noh

    5 May, 2014 - 12:13 am

    The tragic loss of life in Odessa just happened

    after opposing pro and anti protesters just happened to meet

    and some of them just happened to enter a building

    which was near a protest encampment that had just happened to catch fire

    then the building just happened to catch fire too

    and regrettably lots of them just happened to die

    BREAKING NEWS: GWYNETH PALTROW AND CHRIS MARTIN REUNITE!!!

    Hmm

    http://rt.com/news/156652-odessa-fire-mainstream-media/

  256. Craig… a response to your remark about the number of fascists in Western Ukraine because no-one else has gone there yet…

    IMHO, the thing about Fascism is that only a small number of very violent people are needed to terrorise much larger numbers of people into not speaking out against them, and the quiet ones then may appear to be fascist to an outsider through fear (and perhaps the use of a less toxic term… like, in the 1930s… National Socialism). How many Fascists were there in Germany before Hitler managed to get himself elected into the Reichstag? Probably not that many.

    How long has fascism been capturing the psyche of the Western Ukrainian, do you suppose. Four months? Yes, true, but they are building it also on the Bandera fascists of the early 1940s, which seems to be giving them a head start.

    Whatever you think of Russia, please acknowledge the other aspect of the unfolding story.

  257. Craig, please give me edit facilities like Squonk has on his.

    My last comment should have read:

    “Russians don’t have that privilege.”

    I am not sure that is right any more. Oligarchs get imprisoned in Russia, but that is probably where most of them should be. However I am not sure that Russia executes as many people as the US (especially with the despicable extra-judicial killings that take out others regardless of who they are). I believe mobile phones are used to identify the targets. As to oligarchs perhaps Tony Buckingham who you know a little about ought to be in prison too (see The independent link at 10.28 pm above).

  258. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    5 May, 2014 - 12:27 am

    “I think the EU is the best place to live in the World, by a long, long way.”
    ______________________

    Seconded. The pity is that so many of the benighted fools who post away on here don’t realise it.

  259. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    5 May, 2014 - 12:37 am

    Nice attempt, Hab; theories, conspiratoriaial, or otherwise don’t make facts.

    It will be all but impossible for the EU to trump the IMF, if they wish to remain solvent.

  260. Ben, and everyone else,

    Feel free to set out your own views. But just post links to somewhere else, or just copy and paste what someone else said somewhere, and it will get deleted. This isn’t a junkyard for collecting bad prose and dodgy videos.

  261. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    5 May, 2014 - 12:54 am

    Hopefully my last entry experienced software issues, rather than deletion.

  262. You are welcome to quote other people, or paste links, to illustrate your own argument if you are making one.

  263. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    5 May, 2014 - 12:56 am

    You seem intent on a particular narrative, craig. Perhaps you should set up rules for commentary, so that we know just how far the deletions will go.

  264. Thanks for the deletion. I’ll try to correct the typo this time… :)

    Regarding my above post…. I sent it in haste without actually noticing page 2. I now see that there have been plenty of replies.

  265. Peacewisher,

    I know quite a lot of Ukrainians. None of them are fascists. Fascism does not have a grip on the psyche of Western Ukraine. That is a ridiculous slur on tens of millions of people.

    Regrettably there are fascists in Ukraine, just as there are everywhere in Eastern Europe, including Russia. The proportions do not vary enormously.

  266. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    5 May, 2014 - 12:59 am

    The selected paste from links should suffice as it relates to any particular point, craig. Maybe you should just shut-down comments so that your pov might be more prominent.

  267. No, you can set out your argument at absolutely any length you like. And then you can put a link to that non-entity. But you can’t just paste screeds of someone else’s prose here.

  268. Peacewisher,

    Actually, quite regularly over the last ten years I have been pointing out the dangers of fascism in Eastern Europe – Mary at least will recall the argument with Charles Crawford who was denying my concerns about it in Poland. What it isn’t is an excuse for Putin – who is a dictator himself with a well developed personality cult – to invade.

  269. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    5 May, 2014 - 1:05 am

    That is unfathomable as a directive Craig. It sounds arbitrary subject to your current pique.

  270. Peacewisher

    5 May, 2014 - 1:07 am

    I sincerely hope you are right, Craig. But the signs are certainly not favourable. These good Ukrainians can’t afford to just ignore them, and expect them to go away. Especially as billionaires appear to be funding their violent ways…

  271. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    5 May, 2014 - 1:15 am

    ” But just post links to somewhere else, or just copy and paste what someone else said somewhere, and it will get deleted”

    “Empire” my thoughts…no link or paste.

    “Imperious Rex” Also mine.

    Updates?

  272. Peacewisher

    5 May, 2014 - 1:23 am

    Incidentally, BBC coverage now seems to be a bit more even-handed, and Fergal Keane – in MM terms at least – is fairly independent. I still think the Ukrainian government are of questionable legitimacy, and an administration in such a precarious position should certainly not send the military, led by right sector, to “restore order” against fellow citizens.

  273. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    5 May, 2014 - 1:48 am

    Please remember that you are an even-handed broker. Isn’t that the crux of your reputation? If ever it were found that you, covertly, maintained a character which would not augment your bona fides as Excellent Whistleblower, what would happen on your speaking engagement bookings? It may be a Win/Win based on the demographics who are most appreciate in a fiscal way.

  274. having heard Yats on BBC today going on about kiev’s counte-terrorist ops in the East., it’s nice to see Guardian & Daily Mail presenting the pro-russian protesters as “terrorists” too. in the case of The Guardian, it’s not even Yats, but the writer who is framing them thus:

    Guardian: Kiev hits back at pro-Russia rebels as Ukraine moves towards civil
    war
    Harriet Salem in Slavyansk
    Less than 24 hours after the counter-terrorism assault against the rebels
    began, Ponomaryov announced the release of seven Organisation for Security
    and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) officials and their civilian translator,
    who were taken by bus to Donetsk…
    The Kiev counter-terrorism operation is the first real attempt to dislodge
    the rebels from their stronghold…
    Behind her, a homemade banner taped to a statue of Lenin outside the rebel
    headquarters in the city’s administration building summed up local sentiment
    about the anti-terrorism operation…
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/03/ukraine-civil-war-kiev-russia-slavyansk

    LinkedIn: Harriet Salem
    Photographer, field researcher & writer at Kiev Collective
    Recently she has worked with; Foreign Policy Magazine, Financial Times,
    Business New Europe, The Guardian, SETimes, Kyiv Post, New Eastern Europe
    and The Sun. Harriet has previously lived and worked in; Manchester, London,
    Amsterdam and Kiev. She also works in association with international
    independent media resource, Kiev Collective, as a journalist and researcher
    http://rs.linkedin.com/pub/harriet-salem/44/638/92a

    Daily Mail: Putin wants to ‘wipe Ukraine off the map’, says Kiev: Country’s
    interim prime minister blames Moscow’s secret service for fire that killed
    dozens
    ‘What happened in Odessa was part of a plan by the Russian Federation to
    destroy Ukraine and its statehood,’ Mr Yatsenyuk alleged. ‘Russia sent
    people here to create chaos,’ he added.
    He went on to beg Ukrainians to bury their differences ‘so as not to give
    the terrorists backed by Moscow the opportunity to divide our people’…
    Engulfed by violence which is rapidly plunging Ukraine into full-scale civil
    war, the bespectacled Yatsenyuk begged his people to unite and to bury their
    differences ‘so as not to give the terrorists backed by Moscow the
    opportunity to divide our people’…
    But he was also critical of his police, firing all commanders on Odessa for
    failing to protect people and failing to counter ‘terrorist forces’…
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2620258/Putin-wants-wipe-Ukraine-map-says-Kiev-Countrys-interim-prime-minister-blames-Moscows-secret-service-fire-killed-dozens.html

  275. from Fars in Iran – anonymous propaganda? possibly/probably, but time will tell:

    4 May – FarsNews – S. Arabia Relocating Takfiri Fighters from Syria to Ukraine
    “A large number of terrorist Takfiri fighters in Syria, who bear Saudi and Chechnian nationalities and receive financial and military backup from the Saudi intelligence agency, have been transferred to the Ukrainian capital, Kiev, on several planes to help the Ukrainian army in its fight against the pro-Russian population,” an Arab security official told FNA on Sunday on the condition of anonymity due to the secrecy of the issue.
    “The forces have been immediately dispatched to Kramatosk city in Eastern Ukraine, and are now fighting beside the Ukrainian army forces against the pro-Russians under the name of militias who support the government,” the source added.
    The source explained that Saudi Arabia seeks to take revenge from Russia and pro-Russian people in Ukraine due to Moscow’s support for Syrian President Bashar al-Assad in the war on rebel groups…
    http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13930214000824

    btw why not say Russia is responsible for the war on Syria & even the war on Libya.

    true or not, no matter how many air strikes by Israel on Syria or anywhere else for that matter – there is no possibility of a UN Security Council meeting being held, is there? nice to have US politicians/officials & MSM NOTING/SPECULATING on the alleged strike:

    4 May – Gulf Times – Israeli officials confirm Syria strike
    Israeli officials have confirmed that the Tel Aviv regime has conducted an airstrike on Syria, following speculations by US officials that the Israeli regime had carried out the aerial assault….
    The officials speaking on condition of anonymity said on Saturday that the Israeli fighter jets targeted a shipment of “game-changing” weapons in Syria on Friday. ..
    There have been no immediate confirming comments from Syrian officials.
    Syrian Ambassador to the UN Bashar Ja’afari said that he is “not aware of any attack right now.”
    Earlier Saturday, two US officials said that the Israel “most likely” conducted an airstrike on Syria “in the Thursday-Friday time frame,” claiming, however, that the regime’s fighter jets “did not enter Syrian airspace.”
    CBS News cited US sources as saying the Israeli warplanes targeted “a warehouse.” ….
    The CNN news channel also reported that the Pentagon had collected information showing Israeli warplanes overflying Lebanon during the time frame of the strike.
    Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina also has confirmed that Israeli warplanes bombed Syria.
    http://www.gulftimes.com/news/2013/05/israeli-officials-confirm-syria-strike#.U2ZNeCjwH01

    btw funny how US MSM is full of Benghazi Attack accusations & counter-accusations yet NO-ONE, on the left or on the right, is in the slightest concerned that underlying the attacks was the transfer of arms to AQ-affiliated rebels in Syria & elsewhere in north africa. the subject is never even mentioned.

  276. Macciavelli. What a prat. Despite living 800 years after the revelation of the Holy Qur’an, he did not know that kaida shaytana dha’eefa/ the plan of the devil is weak.

    Lies are disturbing to the soul if you are unaware of the truth, but once the cat has got out of the bag lying simply makes the liar look incredibly stupid.

    Mark Golding has hit the button by concluding that this phoney war in Ukraine is a political distraction from the war in Syria, where USUKIS want to hit the genocide button, but have been prevented by Putin.

    Look at the western banks, look at the western psychologists, look at the western generals. They are frozen into their lies and are now a laughing stock. Do they really think they can keep spinning the same old economic, social and political garbage and anyone is still listening?

    The only cure for recession is to reflate the price of houses so that their assets can rise? The only cure for harmed souls is to burn out the bits of the brain that have been damaged by lies? The only way to win a war is, if you can’t beat them, join them.

    Craig berates the gullible general public and praises the Macciavellians for their honesty. No. The media are not the public. The public do not believe anything the stupid, neanderthal politicians or media groupies or advisors or think-tanks tell them.

    Embarrassing? Let’s have a fig leaf contest? Shall we have a referendum or an election? What about both at the same time? What about leaving the fig leafs off and just insulting the public full on?

  277. http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/05/world-domination/comment-page-2/#comment-456156

    An innteresting evasive reply from Habbabkuk about the location of his time zone. I was not asking about UCT.

    I was asking about a time zone which is one hour ahead of BST.

    Time in UK now 7.50am
    Time in France now 8.50am
    Time in Germany now 8.50am
    etc etc

    I maintain that he is not posting from the UK.

    Time now in UCT – 6.50am

  278. RIP Elena Baltacha
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/27280549

    Born in Kiev 1983. Brave and spirited girl.

  279. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    5 May, 2014 - 8:43 am

    “An innteresting evasive reply from Habbabkuk about the location of his time zone. I was not asking about UCT.

    I was asking about a time zone which is one hour ahead of BST.”
    ___________________

    Do you not know that UTC is (for all practical purposes) = GMT ?

    And that BST is UCT/GMT + 1 ?
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Which makes me recall a wonderful story I once read about a UK politican whom you’ll surely remember – one Edward du Cann.

    He was apparently extremely smarmy, slippery and evasive – to the extent, the story goes, that when a fellow MP once asked him for the time, du Cann answered :
    “what time would you like it to be?”.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    So if you ask me where I’m posting from, perhaps I should reply in like fashion…:)

    ******************

    La vita è bella, tempus fugit!

  280. Resident Dissident

    5 May, 2014 - 8:46 am

    Since it is not a crime to live in a different time zone (or even a different era for some) perhaps Habba should tell Lady Dorking to mind her own business.

  281. Resident Dissident

    5 May, 2014 - 9:00 am

    “Oligarchs get imprisoned in Russia,”

    Only if they disagree with Putin – otherwise they are thriving. In 2000 there were zero Russians on Forbes billionaire list – Moscow alone had 78 in 2012.

    http://www.forbes.com/pictures/eiif45edhh/1-moscow/

    When will Mr Goss realise that things have changed somewhat since his beloved Soviet Union – you need to wind your watch on 30 years.

  282. More evasion from Habbabkuk, now supported by his sidekick RD. UTC is thrown into the mix as a decoy.

    My original post.
    ‘Habbabkuk seems to be in a time zone that is different to the UK’s?? He says he posted a comment to Technicolour at 13.25hrs on the apartheid thread. It actually went up at 12.25hrs BST.’

    It is obvious that he posts from a foreign country but purports to be UK resident.

  283. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    5 May, 2014 - 9:54 am

    Mary

    I think you and the Mods should be aware that some deranged nut is attempting to impersonate you (cf post at 09h26 above).

    A nice day to the real Mary!

  284. Keep on with your silly evasion. Even a fool should know that our avatars do not change if the IP address/email address remains the same.

  285. I think this article is rather one sided Craig and as someone has pointed out, you do seem to have your Cold War, Establishment hat on when it comes to this issue. I’m not expecting you to refrain from criticising Putin’s Imperialism here, but you’re underplaying the US/NATO influence enormously. For example, the $5 billion dollar figure is probably not an overestimate, but and underestimate when you take into account all the covert, off the books money that has been spent recently – and for many years beforehand – to prepare the way for an IMF/US friendly government. The US has been at this for 100 years and has become very practiced at it – take for example 1953 and the overthrow of Mossadeq in Iran, the consequences of which are still affecting global politics today.

    As for Russia being a “Gangster State” – well this is true, but how could you mention this without making the same description of the United States? It may hide behind a more “respectable” image, but this is merely a veneer to hide a fake and the Wall Street crooks who pass through the revolving door into Government/Pentagon/CIA appointments and back again are no less gangsters than their Russian Oligarch counterparts with whom, as you say, they are doing plenty of business.

    I see no evidence that Putin is attempting to restore the Soviet Empire to any degree – but that this is defensive against long term NATO encroachment on Russian borders. I’m not talking about the morality of the Grand Chessboard here, but the practicality. In terms of Imperialism, Putin has been much more restrained and cautious than his “Shock and Awe” counterparts in the West.

    On the subject of activism and protesting government, if you think similar things don’t happen in the US then you should take a look at what happened to journalist Michael Hastings whose extremely suspicious death in a car “accident” was wrapped up quickly and his body cremated against the wishes of his family.

    Finally, you keep banging on about how much better it is in the EU than in Russian Federation states. I’m not sure the Greeks would agree with that. The only reason the EU has a better standard of living is because of the illusion and fraud of international financialization and the “Imperial Wealth Pump” which feeds most of the world’s resources to the Western Powers. As you can see though, this arrangement is falling down around our ears as the Italians and Spanish are discovering and as the rest of us will find out in due course. So pray tell, what good to either the Ukrainians or the EU, will adding yet another IMF debt slave to this equation be?

  286. Resident Dissident

    5 May, 2014 - 10:09 am

    Lady Dorking

    I wonder if it has crossed your febrile imagination that Habba might have his computer time settings such that they might not update for BST.

    Now lets get back to commenters on Medialens who use the same terminology as yourself e.g. BiBiC?

  287. Pat @4.24am

    I continue to be gob-smacked by the fact that an American General who attempted to rescue an American Ambassador in Benghazi was sacked ON THE SPOT, even tho said Ambassador met his demise under horrific circumstances.

    Seems to me that Americans in general are PARALYZED by the atrocities perpetrated by their own ‘elected representatives’, who KNOW exactly what they are doing, and ‘disappearing’ any one who sees and says it AS IT IS.

    Many are those of us who would rather die than perpetuate the on-going lies and slaughter generated by the powers that be.

    This is an ages-old conundrum-like-2050 years-give or take a few?

  288. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    5 May, 2014 - 11:36 am

    Mary

    I think I might adjust the computer time settings to give Tel Aviv time.

    I’ll let you know if I do so because I want to make you happy.Or perhaps not.

  289. RD brings up the rear again in this evasion. Laughable double act.

  290. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    5 May, 2014 - 11:45 am

    OrwellianUK

    “Finally, you keep banging on about how much better it is in the EU than in Russian Federation states. I’m not sure the Greeks would agree with that.”
    ____________________

    Which might explain why Greeks looking for work abroad tend to end up going to the UK, Germany, France ..rather than to the Russian Federation?

    _____________

    More generally, do you (or any of the other SFRs ) happen to have any figures for emigration from the EU to Russia and vice versa? By category figures (eg students, workers, pensioners, etc) if possible.

    ***********

    SFR – Shill for Russia

  291. Sofia Kibo Noh

    5 May, 2014 - 11:48 am

    BREAKING NEWS: JOURNALIST DISCOVERED IN NYT

    Those Russians are so sneaky. Not even the NYT can find where they’ve hidden their army in Ukraine…

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/04/world/europe/behind-the-masks-in-ukraine-many-faces-of-rebellion.html?hpw&rref=world&_r=1

  292. Copied from Medialens (where I am not a contributor as RD keeps suggesting)

    Lockheed Martin: Ukraine Crisis will Boost Sales
    Posted by zemblan on May 5, 2014, 8:59 am

    I wonder when this piece of news will make its way to the BBC’s website…What a racket!

    ‘Lockheed Martin is on the lookout for acquisition deals and expects the crisis in Ukraine to boost sales of its missile defense system MEADS, the company’s chief executive told German weekly paper Welt am Sonntag.

    “We see strong demand for defense systems in the world. Here in Europe it is for missile defense systems. Many of our NATO partners are also looking at our F-35 fighter jet programme,” Marilyn Hewson, company CEO, was quoted as saying.

    Across the world there are around 20 new clients for its Medium Extended Air Defense System (MEADS) Hewson told the paper.

    MEADS is a mobile system designed to defeat tactical ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, unmanned aerial vehicles and aircraft.

    Lockheed continues to be on the lookout for potential acquisitions, Hewson told the paper.’

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/101640055

    +++++

    Sick or what? Just think. Lockheed Martin ran our census last time and have all our details.

  293. Craig 4 May, 2014 – 11:09 am
    “On the end of the British Empire, I have a different view to the dogmatic Marxists among you as to the extent this was entirely due to local resistance, or to which ideological change in the UK itself post 1945 hastened it. That is however irrelevant.”

    Straw man! I have never said the end of empire was entirely due to local resistance. I mentioned numerous causes.

    However, you keep repeating your nonsense that the end of empire was gifted by the British establishment. A ludicrous claim! Anyway, with this latest comment, you are now backtracking, so progress!

    Dogmatic Marxists? LOL. Reds in the beds! You guess at my politics to claim the middle ground for yourself like a good old establishment boy: I am reasonable and the rigid extremism is over there! Watch out everyone, we are now surrounded by one nutter and an extremist! I am the voice of reason!

  294. Acrually I think whoever it was who invented the term ‘BiBiC’ was rather clever. Instead of Z(Zionist)BC, there is a passing reference to Bibi Netanyahu included.

  295. Ha. Indeed, Sofia It really tickles me the way some folk go on about “Russian influence”. Do they mean Russian influence among ethnic Russians in a country that used to be part of Russia?

    Well I’ll go to the foot of our stairs! Whoever would have believed it!

    ITN last night: “The deaths of 40 people on Friday as a result of clashes between both sides.”

    Er…not quite. They were burned to death by Nazis. Bit of a difference there.

  296. Mike

    You are so right. It used to be part of Russia. Russian influence is every bit as legitimate as British influence among the Northern Irish, or the Falkland Islanders. We should have given more support to Carson and Ulster will fight, yes? (Sarcasm alert)

    Look at yourself. You are a complete bloody hypocrite. You are in fact an imperialist, it is just your loyalty is to the Russian empire.

  297. Phil

    I have never said the end of Empire was gifted by the ruling classes. Like yourself I believe it was the result of numerous causes. However, I believe that amongst those causes was that a very significant proportion of the British intelligentsia and the ruling elite came to believe that Empire – and racism – was morally wrong.

    You can’t believe that because you are condemned within the straitjacket of a half-digested notion of class struggle. You are in the SWP and I claim my five pounds.

  298. And you, Craig, seem to be blind to the fact that what’s happening in Ukraine is the latest attempt at bolstering the neo-con iteration of the American empire, using forced regime change and, in this instance, neo-Nazi proxies.

  299. You have just lost five pounds Craig.

  300. Mike

    No I am not. I see it is in part that. But I have much too much sense to believe that the return of the Russian Empire under the hideous autocrat Putin and his billionaire oligarchs is the answer.

  301. Well, we can both agree on that ! I am not a supporter of Russian imperialism or any kind of imperialism !

    The questions I ask myself are: Does Russia have a right to a sphere of influence and a right to defend its interests? Is it right that a country which HAS built a blood-soaked empire over the last 60-odd years — ramped up considerably over the last 15 —  be permitted to destabilise Russia by inciting internecine conflict on its doorstep?

    CIA director in Kiev and the next day the military action begins. Biden in Kiev and hours later the action intensifies. This is not a coincidence, Craig.

    The neocons want to destroy Russia as a sovereign power. That opens the way to Iran, and Syria before that. Then it’s on to China.

    But you know all this. I know you do.

  302. “I think the EU is the best place to live in the World, by a long, long way.”

    Because the core of the EU happens to be in western Europe, that is hardly surprising. Norway, Iceland and Switzerland are also very pleasant places, and offer an excellent quality of life to the citizenry, without being EU members.

  303. ‘What happened in Odessa was part of a plan by the Russian Federation to
    destroy Ukraine and its statehood,’ Mr Yatsenyuk alleged. ‘Russia sent
    people here to create chaos,’ he added.

    If this argument had been uttered by anyone other than a pro Western politician, Mr Aaronovitch and his cronies here would be yelling ‘conspiracy theorist’ at Yatsenyuk.

  304. Mike,

    No, there I don’t agree with you. I don’t think either the US oligarchs or the Russian oligarchs give a flying toss about the people of Ukraine, any of them. I think that what they are engaging in is a little power play for the control of some economic resources. But I think that at base they are like friends playing poker, and that the oligarchs on both sides’ interconnected financial interests means there is very little real hostility between the US and Russia – that’s all bread and circuses for the punters. The ultra-rich are all co-operating together very nicely.

  305. Germany’s defence minister, Ms. von der Leyen, sees no need for German military observers to be present in the Ukraine, when asked about the failed fake OSCE mission, especially not since reports have shown that Saudi paid mercenaries from Syria have been flown in by planes, one would not want to interfere with Mercedes owners now, would one.

  306. Craig 5 May, 2014 – 12:18 pm
    “You are in the SWP and I claim my five pounds.”

    Ouch, handbags at dawn! You know that is way off, you old dog you.

  307. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    5 May, 2014 - 1:59 pm

    Craig to Mike

    “Look at yourself. You are a complete bloody hypocrite. You are in fact an imperialist, it is just your loyalty is to the Russian empire.”
    _______________

    Mike’s another one who sadly displays the symptoms of the disease identified by George Orwell, ie, transferred nationalism.

  308. Ukrainian heavy industry to Russia; farmland to the EU.

    So there is no actual Russia/China v US interests? Corporate links, for sure…but the NWO club playing Risk?

    Not sure I can buy that, Craig.

  309. Here we go — he senses a stushie so he sticks his spoon in and gives it a good stir…

    You are a naughty little imp, Habby.

  310. Resident Dissident

    5 May, 2014 - 2:33 pm

    “You are in the SWP and I claim my five pounds.”

    I can at least have some respect for those who follow the line “Neither Washington nor Moscow but International Socialism” they have some ideological consistency unlike the ersatz socialists.

  311. The Corbett report linked audio someone posted describes the Eastern Ukrainian industries as their rust belt, heavy steel and railway infrastructure. The Western/IMF/EU approach will be to scrap the whole lot, that is what they do everywhere and the competition isn’t needed. Russia’s oligarchs or Ukraine ‘own’ vampire dual-citizenship capitalists won’t have much inclination to invest there, but once such facilities and the skills are lost to the succeeding generation they can be very much more difficult and costly to reproduce from scratch. The Ravenscraig Steel plant and related industries in Lanarkshire, were thoroughly modern high-tech, built by the private sector Colvilles and which bankrupted them, just before the BSC was created, were ruthlessly scrapped by the destructive and vindictive Westminster governments; in an oil-producing country, the finest high-quality most modern oil-pipeline manufacturing complex the world had known was broken up out of sheer malice. The same goes for the high-tech ‘white heat of the technological revolution’ high-pressure aluminimum die-casting works adjacent to the former Rootes car assembly plant at Linwood in Scotland which could have survived independently and continued as a world leader making diverse products in a market with constant demand.

    The industrial East Ukraine’s best interests lie with Russia, capitalism doesn’t care for any form of competition and the EU won’t take their products, they’ll take some token orders to get you dependent then drive the price down till its unprofitable for you, then they’ll ransack, loot and asset strip, till they’ve taken the shirt off your back.

  312. “You are in the SWP and I claim my five pounds.”

    Just to be clear: I am entirely open about my anarchism. The SWP is an anathema to me. Craig was baiting me. I have never been in the SWP or anything like it.

    Unlike professional human rights activist Craig Murray I do not have a past to be ashamed of and yet trade off at the same time.

  313. Sofia Kibo Noh 5 May, 2014 – 11:48 am

    Thanks for that link Sofia. Resident Dissident, whose thirty years behind the time pointing links to the International, might like to read it, together with this which claims there is evidence that the Ukrainian government was itself behind the Nazis that torched the Trade Union building after herding the unarmed pro-Russian protestors into the building.

    http://ukraine-human-rights.org/was-the-massacre-in-odessa-planned-by-the-ukrainian-government/

  314. whose = who is

  315. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    5 May, 2014 - 3:43 pm

    H/T to Squonk for this timeline.

    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/anti-terrorist-operation-continues-in-donetsk-oblast-live-updates-346313.html

    Ukrainian helicopter shot down by heavy machine gun fire. Fortunately, the availability of weapons in the Region is nothing like that seen in Sarajevo. Nearly as many civilians died as did military. Horrible for the inhabitants.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Sarajevo

  316. Resident Dissident

    5 May, 2014 - 3:54 pm

    For all those maintaining how Ukraine is now run by fascists – perhaps they should look at what is happening to the Svoboda candidate’s share of the vote in the opinion polls for the Presidential election. 2.1% and falling would appear to be rather less that the 12.5% achieved by Zhironovsky and his facists chums in the last Russian Duma elections. Zhironovsky was of course allowed to visit the Crimea by Putin well before the recent referendum.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_presidential_election,_2014

  317. Resident Dissident

    5 May, 2014 - 4:17 pm

    Ben

    Who do you think is supplying the rebels in Donetsk with surface to air missiles to shoot down helicopters and why?

  318. Resident Dissident

    5 May, 2014 - 4:28 pm

    Not just Crimean Tatars that are being persecuted in the Crimea but now Catholics

    http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/newf.php?url=ukrainian-catholics-experiencing-total-persecution-in-crimea/

    and the Ukrainian Orthodox Church

    http://newsdaily.com.ua/post/213385

  319. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    5 May, 2014 - 4:37 pm

    “The SBU said the deadly use by the separatists of shoulder-launched anti-aircraft missiles was evidence that “trained, highly qualified foreign military specialists” were operating in the area “and not local civilians, as the Russian government says, armed only with guns taken from hunting stores”.”

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/02/us-ukraine-crisis-idUSBREA400LI20140502

    RD; It’s he said, she said. No evidence missiles were utilized. The chopper was hovering for quite some time. A sitting duck.

    A missile would have been wasted, if heavy machine gun had an easy target.

  320. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    5 May, 2014 - 4:52 pm

    White book on Ukrainian human rights violations.

    ““The onslaught of racism, xenophobia, ethnic intolerance, the glorification of the Nazis and their Banderite sycophants should be brought to a speedy end through the united efforts of the Ukrainian people and the international community,”

    http://rt.com/news/156840-ukraine-human-right-abuses/

  321. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    5 May, 2014 - 5:04 pm

    Jewish communities are nervous. Hmmm. I wonder why.

    “Rabbi Avraham Wolf, representing the Chabad hassidic community, said they are taking extra security measures, such as posting armed guards, and are prepared for a possible evacuation. Together with the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews, they have prepared a fleet of 70 buses, fueled and ready to go.”

    http://rt.com/news/156792-odessa-jews-evacuation-plans/

  322. I get accused, together with Russia Today, of never criticising the Russian government. Well here is one link to a new Russian bill to which I am totally opposed and if introduced here could well be used to close down this blog. (I know it has already been closed once). This kind of law is repressive.

    http://rt.com/politics/155580-russia-internet-blogger-bill/

  323. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    5 May, 2014 - 5:55 pm

    The Gadfly writes

    “Jewish communities are nervous. Hmmm. I wonder why.

    “Rabbi Avraham Wolf, representing the Chabad hassidic community, said they are taking extra security measures, such as posting armed guards, and are prepared for a possible evacuation. Together with the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews, they have prepared a fleet of 70 buses, fueled and ready to go.”

    http://rt.com/news/156792-odessa-jews-evacuation-plans/
    _________________

    Which, in translation, appears to say “they brought it on themselves”.

    Now where have we heard that sort of “reasoning” before, I wonder?

    ******************

  324. Yatsenyuk currently making a speech on the live feed. It keeps breaking up.

  325. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    5 May, 2014 - 6:02 pm

    Ben

    15 minutes between your first and second posts, 12 between the second and the third.

    Why the acceleration? Puffin’ away more quickly or was the second joint shorter?

  326. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    5 May, 2014 - 6:04 pm

    Your pretzel logic; ““they brought it on themselves”.

    Giving you some allowance for being drunk over Craig’s support of your nutrition-free missives, I suspect you are daft from substance abuse.

    The Warsaw Ghetto should have had such preparations for Nazi rule. Kudos to the Jewish and Christian communities who learn from History.

  327. Resident Dissident

    5 May, 2014 - 6:06 pm

    “I get accused, together with Russia Today, of never criticising the Russian government. Well here is one link to a new Russian bill to which I am totally opposed and if introduced here could well be used to close down this blog. (I know it has already been closed once). This kind of law is repressive.”

    Of course all this has been extensively reported in Mr Goss’s beloved MSM
    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/04/netanyahu-continues-vicious/#comment-454248

  328. Resident Dissident

    5 May, 2014 - 6:08 pm

    Habba

    I think you’ll find that the effect of more joints is deceleration.

  329. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    5 May, 2014 - 6:21 pm

    Resident Dissident

    “I think you’ll find that the effect of more joints is deceleration.”
    ____________________

    You’re probably right, but would you not agree with me that we should seek confirmation from the Expert himself?

    Assuming of course he’s got the energy to reply after all that bad-mouthing of Craig he indulged in on Squink’s blog yesterday (the General Thread)….

  330. I have to be selective on links I read RD. Thanks for posting that. Was this one posting on MSM?

    http://rt.com/politics/russian-patriotism-party-protection-073/

  331. Take no notice of the epithets Ben. Normal for the course.

  332. “This kind of law is repressive.”

    I agree 100 per cent, John.

  333. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    5 May, 2014 - 8:16 pm

    I take notice only when misrepresetnation requires; which is, come to think of it, most of the time, Mary.

    They have nothing to offer except as hecklers, disrupting a public meeting.

  334. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    5 May, 2014 - 8:22 pm

    Craig; Please take some time to link Sevastapol to the Ukraine, then over to Tartus.

    http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13930214000824

    “”A large number of terrorist Takfiri fighters in Syria, who bear Saudi and Chechnian nationalities and receive financial and military backup from the Saudi intelligence agency, have been transferred to the Ukrainian capital, Kiev, on several planes to help the Ukrainian army in its fight against the pro-Russian population,” an Arab security official told FNA on Sunday on the condition of anonymity due to the secrecy of the issue.”

    Takfiris are the bastards beheading the population.

  335. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    5 May, 2014 - 8:38 pm

    I don’t really understand the new rules for comments, so my hope is that insider perspective doesn’t qualify as shit.

    http://www.wildwildleft.com/diary/3183/postcards-from-the-ukraine

    Diane Gee :: Postcards From the Ukraine

    I was in line behind a tall, grey haired man, still strong of build despite his well past retirement age. He was saying how the US should stay the hell out of the Ukraine, and that Russia was right. Never one to pass a random public political discussion, I heartily agreed. She started to say, “No, no, the US does good…” When he brought up our aggression vs Russia’s, and I cited the number of bases to support him. We have over a thousand not on US soil, they have 7. He was on his way out and said, “Fuck the US,” by way of leave.
    As I approached, she said, “You don’t understand. Russia plans on taking everything over again,” going on to name countries, mostly in the West. I said, but the new, illegal government are Nazis, they want to outlaw speaking Russian and perhaps deport anyone who is ethnically Russian. She sneered, “Is Ukraine! They should be only Ukrainians! They should speak our language or get out! The new leaders are good and right. Ukraine for Ukrainians!”

    I asked, pointedly, “If the Crimeans want to be independent and allied with Russia, why should the US interfere? I mean, look at all the places we have invaded and made war on, and Russia hasn’t to anyone.”

    She looked up defiantly, “The US only does war for GOOD! Everywhere, they bring freedom.”

    I was now staring open jawed and aghast. “You really don’t believe that do you? So we should back Nazis who want to deny Jews and Russians their freedom in their own country and that is for good?”

    By now, another customer had walked up, my order was paid for and bagged, so we couldn’t politely continue. She just curled her lip and whispered with a growl, “The Nationalists are good. Ukraine is for Ukrainian only. I am from there, I know how all those others ruin everything.” She spit ‘others’ with a venom that made me shudder. Her hatred of Russians and Jews so palpable as to my picturing her slamming the door on a gas chamber. So much for that sweet old Uke lady.

  336. Assuming of course he’s got the energy to reply after all that bad-mouthing of Craig he indulged in on Squink’s blog yesterday (the General Thread)

    Well it’s far better that Craig’s posting away and gosh – saying things some people disagree with than being completely silent as the blog was for quite some time.

    Anyway be sure and keep up the monitoring at squonk. You wouldn’t want to miss anything :-)

  337. The world’s most expensive flat has reportedly been sold in London for £140m.

    According to Property Week, the penthouse in the One Hyde Park development was snapped up by an eastern European buyer.

    The unnamed individual, whose identity is being closely guarded by the developers, is kitting out the unfurnished flat to their own tastes and needs. The end result of this could push the end price up to £160m.

    Before this purchase, the most expensive flat was sold for £136.4m to Rinat Akhmetov, Ukraine’s richest man. It was also in the One Hyde Park development, which has 80 apartments.

    /..

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/one-hyde-park-sells-worlds-most-expensive-flat-140m-london-1447022

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rinat_Akhmetov

  338. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    5 May, 2014 - 9:57 pm

    AA; Our haven could use a tit-mouse or a dirty rat, just so it seems homey. :)

  339. All very disturbing. All that propaganda by the BBC etc. in English that none of us, including I suspect the newsreaders has been lapped up by the Western Ukrainians and now there’ll be a civil war.

    The latest propaganda I’ve heard harks back to Bush/Blair and the start of sanctions against Iran…

    with Israel replaced by Ukraine and Iran replaced by Russia. I kid you not:

    “Putin wants to wipe Ukraine off the map”

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2620258/Putin-wants-wipe-Ukraine-map-says-Kiev-Countrys-interim-prime-minister-blames-Moscows-secret-service-fire-killed-dozens.html

  340. Is the Mark MacDougall who refused to testify in the Dahdaleh case below the same Mark McDougall that acts for the Ukrainian oligarch Akhmetov in his litigations?

    ‘Judge Nicholas Loraine-Smith must determine whether an Akin Gump partner, Mark MacDougall, committed serious misconduct during the high-profile trial of Victor Dahdaleh, a British-Canadian “power broker”.

    Mr Dahdaleh was acquitted in December of charges that he bribed a senior member of the Bahraini royal family in exchange for $3bn of contracts for companies he represented, including Alcoa, the US aluminium manufacturer.

    Mr MacDougall flew back to the US during the trial rather than give evidence for the Serious Fraud Office, as was expected. The court heard on Thursday that this was because he had concerns over breaching legal privilege attached to a parallel US civil case where Alba, the Bahraini aluminium champion and his client, is suing Mr Dahdaleh.’

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3a0bb038-aace-11e3-be01-00144feab7de.html#axzz30satxByc

    ‘When dealing with public criticism and allegations concerning his past, Akhmetov has utilized a notably well-stocked PR and legal team to protect his image and name. His team often contests reports on him that they consider to be libelous, scandalous, or inaccurate. To date, his legal team has obtained many retractions, apologies, and libel settlements. Critics accuse Akhmetov of going beyond protecting his name, but rather fear mongering investigative journalists. As many court cases occur in London for its lax free speech laws, critics accuse Akhmetov and his legal team of abuse of libel tourism. In January 2008, Akhmetov won a London libel court case “for damage to his reputation” for such claims, while several other claims about an alleged “criminal past” have been retracted by the media.

    In a statement issued by Akhmetov’s lawyer Mark MacDougall, “Akhmetov has done a lot of work to protect his good name from false accusations, which might hurt the reputation of his family and business. As the result of it, many publications in Ukraine and other European countries had published retractions and apologies… [and] admitted that their claims are false. We think that these facts speak for themselves”.’

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rinat_Akhmetov#Disputes_in_the_media

  341. No! Help! Please – not him.

    Hague vows help for Ukraine crisis
    William Hague has attempted to reassure Ukraine that Britain is offering “practical help” to deal with the raging crisis as he begins a tour of former Soviet states.
    http://home.bt.com/news/worldnews/hague-vows-help-for-ukraine-crisis-11363899241905

    Look at those eyes. They say a lot.

    The other day he was promising more ‘aid’ for the rabble rebels in Syria.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/gifting-of-equipment-to-syria–2 

    Jarba is now off to the US to meet Kerry for weapons. Also setting up a mission in the US.
    http://www.maannews.net/ENG/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=694688

  342. Habbabkuk – You’re missing the point. I’m saying that the situation in the E.U. is getting worse, isn’t the utopia that we try to convince Eastern Europeans it is, and adding more bankrupt, IMF beholden countries to this already credit-dependent “household” will come to no good end. The Greeks, or anyone else for that matter, will struggle to find jobs anywhere before long. Ukraine’s industry is largely in service of the Russian economy. It’s not like Ukrainian goods are sold in Western Europe and they won’t be. That’s why an economic arrangement Russia would seem to be the most sensible of options, rather than debt slavery to the West.

  343. @Mary: It’s British jobs for British workers. As started by Margaret Thatcher and perpetrated by every subsequent administration. A reporter once asked David Cameron how he slept at night, which seemed to throw the prime minister almost as much as the famous “Have you got blood on your hands, Prime Minister”, addressed to Tony Blair in Japan post-Kelly.

    Speaking of Japan, I wonder what Japanese citizens think of the country that dropped two atom bombs on them being encouraged by their own government to enter a military alliance.

  344. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    5 May, 2014 - 11:38 pm

    Who are these Banderists?

    http://hnn.us/article/122778

    “On January 22, 2010 Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko honored Stepan Bandera by posthumously bestowing on him the state honor, “Hero of Ukraine.” The Soviet KGB assassinated Bandera, a Ukrainian nationalist-in-exile, in 1959. Many Ukrainians, including Ukrainian émigré groups in Canada, pressed Yushchenko to grant the honor, which, according to one statement, “would restore justice and truth about the Bandera and the…struggle for liberation that he headed.” To this day, many Ukrainians view Bandera as a martyred freedom fighter.

    As an uncompromising leader of the militant, terrorist branch of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN), Bandera became a Nazi collaborator who lived with his deputies under German protection after World War II began. In preparation for the attack on the USSR, the Nazis recruited Bandera’s followers to act as Ukrainian-speaking policemen and to serve in two Ukrainian volunteer army battalions. By working with the Nazis, Bandera hoped to free Ukraine from Soviet rule and establish his own government there. An independent Ukraine, Bandera promised, would remain friendly to Germany.

    Historian Karel Berkhoff, among others, has shown that Bandera, his deputies, and the Nazis shared a key obsession, namely the notion that the Jews in Ukraine were behind Communism and Stalinist imperialism and must be destroyed. “The Jews of the Soviet Union,” read a Banderist statement, “are the most loyal supporters of the Bolshevik Regime and the vanguard of Muscovite imperialism in the Ukraine.” When the Germans invaded the USSR in June 1941 and captured the East Galician capital of Lvov, Bandera’s lieutenants issued a declaration of independence in his name. They further promised to work closely with Hitler, then helped to launch a pogrom that killed four thousand Lvov Jews in a few days, using weapons ranging from guns to metal poles. “We will lay your heads at Hitler’s feet,” a Banderist pamphlet proclaimed to Ukrainian Jews. – See more at: http://hnn.us/article/122778#sthash.TOJTbnik.dpuf

  345. If the massacre at Odessa (unofficial death toll much greater than 46) the work of Banderists? If Yushchenko had wanted to reduce the fascist vote, he would surely have called what happened in Odessa “the true face of fascism”, and used it to kill the ideology stone dead for all the Ukrainian people. As far as I’m aware, he hasn’t… and now I realise why.

  346. Now a British Journalist in Ukraine daring to work for RT has a bounty on his head:

    http://rt.com/news/156892-ukraine-radicals-bounty-journalist/

    That journalist is Graham Philips… and others are being targeted.

    The George Orwell quote comes to mind:

    “During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

  347. Excellent article here by Robert Parry, showing how the official narrative on Ukraine (Putin is to blame for everything) is fraying at the edges-

    http://consortiumnews.com/2014/05/04/another-nyt-sort-of-retraction-on-ukraine/

  348. BrianFujisan

    6 May, 2014 - 1:13 am

  349. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    6 May, 2014 - 1:37 am

    From the Munk debate with Greenwald.

    Dershowitz:
    ” We are in danger; we have to compromise. Getting killed by terrorism is oh so different from getting struck by lightening. In fact, the reason for compromising on our liberties is that WE WILL LOSE THEM ALTOGETHER IN THE NEXT ATTACK If we do not. No, we do not know if we can prevent the next attack, or the one after that, etc., but we have to compromise anyway.”

    He is the harbinger. He is privvy, and should know this to be true (my emphasis above). Of course we know this already, but confirmation is like gold.

  350. LIBYA’S DOING WELL:

    Sara, the daughter of the late President of the World Jewish Congress and President of the World Jewish Restitution Organization, Edgar Bronfman has an interesting fiance, Basit Igtet:

    Wikipedia: Sara Bronfman
    Sara Bronfman, humanitarian and human rights activist (born 1976) is the daughter of the billionaire philanthropist and former Seagram chairman, Edgar Bronfman Sr…
    Sara Bronfman first became involved in aiding Libya after traveling as a delegate with the The Independent Libya Foundation (ILF) in November 2011, during the Arab Spring and after the death of Muammar Gaddafi. The delegation was headed by ILF president and founder Basit Iglet and consisted of multiple humanitarian experts, including Adam Hock and Joseph Hagin. They toured Post-Gaddafi Libya and presented their “multi-phase re-integration program,” which was accepted by the local authorities of Benghazi, who were appointed by the Libyan National Transitional Council.
    She has been involved with the U.S.-Libya Chamber of Commerce since its founding in November 2011 with the purpose of developing viable economic links between American and Libyan enterprises…
    Sara Bronfman is also involved with the Canada-Libya Chamber of Commerce, which was founded on March 12, 2012.
    ???Bronfman and fiance Basit Igtet are the inaugural president and chairman of the board respectively…
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sara_Bronfman

    Igtet was appointed as a Special Envoy to the Libyan National Transitional Council (NTC) on 4 September 2011 but now has bigger plans!

    9 April – Abdul Basit Igtet To Stand For The Presidency Of Libya
    (ANTARA/PRNewswire) — Abdul Basit Igtet, the businessman and author of “A Plan for Libya”, confirmed today that he will stand for the post of President of Libya. Mr. Igtet commented…
    http://www.antaranews.com/en/news/93594/abdul-basit-igtet-to-stand-for-the-presidency-of-libya

  351. Perhaps a little late for this thread but Craig implied that those killed in the Odessa fire were just a bunch of young male fanatics who more or less asked for their fate. Here is a list of the victims: http://www.unian.net/politics/914899-stali-izvestnyi-imena-36-pogibshih-v-stolknoveniyah-v-odesse.html

  352. BrianFujisan

    6 May, 2014 - 2:31 am

    ToivoS

    Up thread…. @ me

  353. http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/why-this-town-loves-going-to-war/

    Why ‘This Town’ Loves Going to War
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27247428#TWEET1117432
    Ukraine reinstates conscription as crisis deepens
    http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/25229/53/
    German Paper: Kiev flooded with CIA, FBI Agents
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/05/02/obamas-new-ukraine/

    A Russophobic, Failed State Ruled by Fascists
    Obama’s New Ukraine
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article38401.htm
    The Politics of Red Lines

    Putin’s takeover of Crimea scares U.S. leaders because it challenges America’s global dominance.
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/05/02/inside-the-fanciful-world-of-stratfor/
    Robert D. Kaplan’s Geopolitical Bunkum
    Inside the Fanciful World of Stratfor
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/05/02/why-the-us-blew-a-chance-to-reconcile-with-iran/
    Manufactured Threats
    Why the US Blew a Chance to Reconcile with Iran
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/05/02/afghanistan-a-nightmare-of-failure/

    No Good Men Among the Living
    Afghanistan—A Nightmare of Failure
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/05/05/foreign-jihadis-in-syria-pledge-their-own-911/
    Ambitious al-Qa’ida-Type Groups Now Control an Enormous Area
    Foreign Jihadis in Syria Pledge Their Own 9/11

    Turkey’s next door to Europe.
    http://www.crisisgroup.org/en/regions/europe/turkey-cyprus/turkey/230-the-rising-costs-of-turkey-s-syrian-quagmire.aspx
    The Rising Costs of Turkey’s Syrian Quagmire

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9OVqVFL5tY

    http://www.theautomaticearth.com/the-united-states-desperate-solutions-for-not-sinking-alone/
    The United States’ Desperate Solutions For Not Sinking Alone
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article38389.htm
    This Land Isn’t Your Land, This Land Is Their Land
    An Empire in Decline (City by City, Town by Town)

  354. Sofia Kibo Noh

    6 May, 2014 - 3:39 am

    ToivoS. 2 13 am
    Thanks.
    I could’nt get that article in English. Google Translate gives this for the title, “Became Famous names of 36 of the victims in a collision in Odessa”
    Maybe RD or another expert can let us in on the nuances of the Ukrainian Language and explain how this is not what it looks like.
    Considering those figures came from this kind of source what are the chances that even these numbers and details are deliberate underestimations?

    From the same organisation, “UNIAN talked with odious former PM from the Party of Regions about those behind separatist riots in Luhansk, a role of Alexander Yefremov in these events, local police inaction and outcome of the rule of the Party of Regions for the area.”
    If you think I am being over-suspicious here’s the full English language Unian article. If the man said these things, what could be his reasons, evidence or fear? You choose.

    Vladimir Landik: What is happening in Luhansk is a terrorist attack, and it mut be suppressed.

    And we’re expected to regard RT as so untrustworthy that we should’nt even check it out,
    http://rt.com/news/eastern-ukraine-army-operation-680/

    Just imagine what we would be witnessing if UNIAN Information Agency discovered crowd-sourced video.

  355. Sofia Kibo Noh

    6 May, 2014 - 3:47 am

    Re crowd sourced video. Here’s Unian’s equivalent to RT’s Breaking News from East Ukraine. It is also their homepage.

    http://www.unian.info/

  356. EU expansion hurt the people of the EE countries. You must have swallowed the propaganda.
    Does this look like berter off to you?

    “a region with among the highest poverty rates in Europe and where more people are leaving than arriving.”
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-29/polish-300-billion-aid-package-hides-eu-expansion-flaws.html
    Polish $300 Billion Aid Package Hides EU Expansion Flaws

    https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/04/01/pola-a01.html
    Report: Thousands of Polish children go hungry

    http://digitalcommons.ilr.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2913&context=ilrreview
    Social Failures of EU Enlargement: A Case of
    Workers Voting with Their Feet. By Guglielmo
    Meardi

    http://consortiumnews.com/ 2014/04/02/ukrainians-get- imfs-bitter-medicine/
    Ukrainians Get IMF’s Bitter Medicine
    April 2, 2014
    Exclusive: Though lacking legitimacy from national elections, Ukraine’s coup regime has approved a harsh IMF austerity plan that hits Ukraine’s “99 percent” the hardest and asks little from the country’s “1 percent,” including the corrupt “oligarchs,” reports Robert Parry.

    http://www.nakedcapitalism. com/2014/04/imf-imposing- tougher-austerity-conditions. html
    IMF Imposing Even Tougher Austerity Conditions on New Loans

  357. http://harpers.org/blog/2010/11/churchills-dark-side-six-questions-for-madhusree-mukerjee/
    Churchill’s Dark Side: Six Questions for Madhusree Mukerjee

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/7991820/Winston-Churchill-blamed-for-1m-deaths-in-India-famine.html
    Winston Churchill blamed for 1m deaths in India famine
    “More than thirty million famine related deaths occurred in British India between

    1870 and 1910″

    https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.celdf.org%2Fdownloads%2FNATURE%2520and%2520EMPIRE%2520-%2520LAXMAN%2520SATYA%2520ARTICLE.pdf
    The British Empire, Ecology and Famines in Late 19 Century Central India
    Sir Winston Churchill may be one of Britain’s greatest wartime leaders, but in India he has been blamed for allowing more than a million people to die of starvation.
    “I had no idea that India was the largest opium exporter for centuries. I had no idea that opium was essentially the commodity which financed the British Raj in India.”
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7460682.stm

    ‘Opium financed British rule in India’
    Note: Bengal was richest province under Mughal Rule:
    “Bengal became the richest and
    most important of the provinces of the Mughal Empire”
    https://archive.org/stream/cu31924022975563/cu31924022975563_djvu.txt

  358. Craig,

    I am amazed by the fact how Karimov was well-treated after the Andizhan massacre by both Russia and the West which pretended to be concerned for a few months after the massacre, and how they are devided now on Ukraine.

  359. Sofia Kibo Noh

    6 May, 2014 - 8:04 am

    Winston, Russel.

    That’s quite an acheivement for empires that only go places to bring civilisation / democracy / prosperity.

    Good intentions paving the way to hells and all that.

    There’s the case f Ireland between 1845 to 1851. A remarkable example of a place where, under British rule, approximately 1.5 million people died from hunger and disease and another 1-2 million were displaced (20-25% of it’s population), while at the same time exporting food throughout. Imagine the famine there would have been if more than a single crop had failed.

    http://irishpotatofamine.net/the-great-irish-famine/

  360. Sofia Kibo Noh

    6 May, 2014 - 8:08 am

    Great Irish Famine.

    Great Odessa fire.

    We’ve the makings of a very long list of great miss-namings…

  361. Peacewisher

    6 May, 2014 - 8:44 am

    Agreed, Sofia. I’ve been to one of the rural sites near Limerick where hundreds were forced to travel to and died a terrible death through cholera and other diseases as well as starvation. As you say… many atrocities… and it continues.

  362. Sofia,

    Great Irish Famine.

    Great Odessa fire.

    and of course

    Great Britain.

  363. BrianFujisan 6 May, 2014 – 1:13 am

    Thanks for those links Brian. I had seen the videos and posted them earlier somewhere.

    I notice, and I do not want this to be misconstrued as anti-Jewish, whenever it is shown that those whom the hairy bridged-wellers support, have been guilty of horrendous crimes against humanity in Odessa, and the illegal government they support lies about it, there is a mass Exodus from the blog.

  364. bridged-wellers = bridge-dwellers

  365. Peacewisher 6 May, 2014 – 12:26 am

    The bounty on the head of honest reporters is indicative of what happened in the second Iraq war where only embedded journalists had any degree of safety, and there is a suspicion that journalists were particularly targeted since nearly as many media personnel were killed as UK soldiers. I researched journalist deaths for this article.

    http://newsjunkiepost.com/2013/06/04/the-united-states-of-extra-judicial-murder-and-imprisonment/

    Like the bounty-hunters now, bounties were put on the heads of Moazzam Begg (in UK custody for researching torture) and Shaker Aamer (still in Guantanamo Bay after 12 years for no reason whatsoever except that he has been tortured). The US paid the bounties. Wonder where the Maidan thugs got that idea? It could not be from the cowboys who shot innocent people so that all there is in power in the US today is ranch full of cowboys.

  366. I’m living in Poland. Since November I’ve been watching Ukrainian satellite television every day — often for hours. What first struck me was the fact that — after a period of adjustment — I could understand practically everything they said (unless they spoke extremely quickly). Not just the same words, but very often the same turns of phrase.

    I was also struck by the fact that political comment and discussion on oligarch-owned Ukrainian television channels was much, much freer than in Poland, where practically all television channels are now de facto government channels working for Mr Tusk and his friends (i.e. against Mr Kaczynski) — the notable exception being TRWAM television run by the Catholic Redemptorist order.

    On Ukrainian television both sides can have their say without being continually interrupted by a partisan “journalist” representing the interests of the ruling party. The discussions on Ukrainian television are truly amazing and can last for hours. Speakers freely alternate between Ukrainian and Russian. One recent Friday session of “Shuster Live” lasted for five and a half hours!

    Watching Ukrainians, at first I used to say to myself “They’re just like us Poles — it’s the same spirit, the same mentality”. Then the stark realization suddenly dawned on me: “Yes, of course, that’s because THEY ARE US.” Like it or not, what we’re witnessing is the resurrection of the old Polish Commonwealth (not empire, Craig), which was in effect the first European Union. The aim of the Polish 1863 Uprising against tsarist Russia was to recreate the Commonwealth (Rzeczpospolita), but this time as a union of three nations: Poland, Lithuania (i.e. Byelorussia) and Ruthenia (i.e. the Ukraine). One of the masterminds of the 1863 uprising was Joseph Conrad’s uncle Stefan Bobrowski. Joseph Conrad’s parents were also involved in preparations for the uprising, but were arrested and sent into exile before fighting started.

    Subconsciously (for now), Poles and Ukrainians — whatever their differences — seem to sense what’s happening, hence the wave of sympathy for the Ukrainian struggle in Poland. Poles know that now it’s the Ukrainians who are fighting “for their freedom and ours” and — in their hour of need — Ukrainians for their part can now see who their real friends are. Whatever the outcome of the present standoff, one thing’s perfectly clear: after three hundred years of russification, Russia’s finally lost the battle for Ukrainian hearts and minds.

    On a spiritual plane, this is a disaster for Putin, who — like all Russian nationalists — is clearly horrified by the medium-term prospect of a de facto revival of the old Polish Commonwealth. So are the Germans. Hopefully Scots are more sympathetic!

  367. Thanks for your excellent report here on how you watched hours of Ukrainian TV, semblance. I can assure you that this german has no fear of any Polish neighbours or their fancifull dreams of past grandiose times.

    My question would be, will it hurt all those who are currently hungry in Poland and Ukraine even more, will it cause bloodshed and does it involve the EU, because as a member, Poland would have to jump through some hurdles to make such a move work.

    And, what would this mean to relations with Russia, nevermind Germany.

  368. Sofia Kibo Noh

    6 May, 2014 - 11:15 am

    Semblance. 9 48am

    Hello, I can’t recall seeing your moniker here before, so welcome.

    Thanks for the West / East Poland perspective.

    How, in your opinion, can the the two ethnic / cultural groups, move with the least violence to a new equilibrium which respects the human rights and aspirations of all?

    This question has particular emotional weight for me, living as I do, in a place which has had it’s own eight hundred year brush with empire. Maybe we are fortunate here that our geographical location has us far away from the edges of the greater geopolitical dramas, so we had / have only one “Great” (thanks John) power interfering with our attempts at reconcilliation.

    We have a habit of understatement. “The Troubles” is the name we have for the violent phase of our own conflict. Believe me, the killings create problems which echo through the generations.

    Our own armed struggle evolved into an ongoing “peace process”, constantly under threat from unelected groups on both extremes, but, so far relatively intact.

    Most of us just want to get on with our lives and let each other be, with all our differences and historical wounds. Neither group emerges from our history without stories that give good justification to fear the other.

    Here’s a flavour of where we are at right now.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/mcconville-case-signals-pressing-need-for-independent-commission-of-inquiry-1.1784237

    Are we all simply helpless pawns in the great games of others.

    I’d like to think we can learn from each others’ stories Can we learn from each other and nudge the process towards resolutions that leave less grieving families with good reasons to hate, ad feckin infinitum?
    .

  369. I’m incensed by the sycophancy of Merkel, the picture says it all. Where was Obama’s wife during his four hours of ‘making time for Angela’?

    Typical CDU/CSU lovey, since the Franz Josef Strauss bribery scandal over Starfighters have these idiots courted the USA.

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/chancellor-merkel-sacrifices-nsa-investigation-for-unity-on-ukraine-a-967596.html

  370. Semblance, welcome, and thanks very much for giving us your thoughts from a Polish perspective. You are not alone in having your news fed from the same nipple of powers that be. It is the same here – though some are getting fat on the rich diet of lies. Are you English? Your English is very good.

    A query though. If in Poland, which is part of Europe, gets restricted news, and the news in Ukraine is perceived as being balanced, if/when Ukraine becomes a part of the greater Polish commonwealth will its news cease to be balanced?

  371. doug scorgie

    6 May, 2014 - 3:03 pm

    The Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov says holding a presidential election in Ukraine would be unusual at the time when Kiev has deployed troops against civilians.

    Surely if the Crimea referendum is illegitimate because it took place during unrest and in a short timeframe then the Ukraine elections due on the 25th May should be regarded as illegitimate for the same reasons.

  372. I don’t know how we can square this anti-Russian hatred manifesting in Eastern European peoples in Western Ukraine, Poland, Baltic states and who knows where else including it seems amongst Western-EU europhile elites amongst the Ferrero Roche set (almost certainly containing nuts), such as Craig Murray, to whom the caution in paranthesis doesn’t apply. The EU must embrace Russia, and vice-versa Russia should and must become a central component of the EU, I’ve always viewed as inevitable then that the centre of power in the EU must necessarily move eastwards, with countries like England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland becoming even more peripheral in every sense, even parts of south-western mainland Europe feeling as if outposts. The fraternal idea of such an EU embracing all the European peoples (putting aside how ill-governed and corrupt it is at present, and how much worse it could get if bigger) cannot contain both Russia and this virulent hatred of Russia, which assorted parties seek to stoke rather than allow to subside. For the new EU members the honeymoon period is now over, the money that has been thrown at them to stupify and entrance them and bind them helplessly to their new master has now inevitably dried up forever, the smoke clears and the mirrors shatter, soon they’ll be bickering over who gets to keep the toast rack and who the pet tortoise loves the most. In the cold light of this new dawn, it’s meet the new boss, same as the old one (copyright, the newly nationalised National Coal Board) and really being a sineless gutless servile client state of the US empire, based on the spectacularly unsuccessful model of the British Isles, is hardly any bit better than being in the political orbit of the old-USSR. You Russophobes better give yourselves a shake and clear your heads, because the Russia the crude propaganda you’ve been over-exposed to and has taught you to hate, will, must inevitably be inside the EU you’ve lemming-like cleaved to suicidally, simply to express your xenophobic hatred of Russians. To us some distance away you’re all exactly the same (as are we), indistinguishable from each other and the differences you conjure up, seem as if the ravings of madmen. Empire’s divide and rule tactics play you like fiddles and jerk your strings. Alasdair Gray wrote (though he might have plagiarised it, it’s such a good line): “Man is the pie that bakes and eats itself, the recipe is separation”.

  373. “Surely if the Crimea referendum is illegitimate because it took place during unrest and in a short timeframe then the Ukraine elections due on the 25th May should be regarded as illegitimate for the same reasons.”

    Nominations for the Ukrainian elections opened on the 25th February so it’s hardly a short timeframe.

  374. In common with the vast majority of mainstream media output, Craig misleadingly uses the epithet ‘Separatists’ to describe what more accurately ought to be termed ‘Federalists’. This is an important distinction.

    The situation in Ukraine is spiraling out of control. The notion, therefore, that Russia is micro-managing the crisis behind the scenes, as Craig infers, seems to me to be nonsense. The West could end this crisis tomorrow by simply pressuring their Ukrainian puppets in Kiev to issue two statements:

    a) They would never apply to join NATO and
    b) They are prepared to have a devolved government so that the people of eastern Ukraine can have something like, say, a Ukrainian version of the Scottish or Welsh assembly.

  375. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    6 May, 2014 - 3:58 pm

    Much agreement there, Daniel. Words are important.

  376. Ben, there is much in Craig’s analysis that I agree with. However, he does in my view, underplay the role of the West in what I regard as being the main catalyst for the crisis.

  377. If we are to accept the premise that equality is correlated to social cohesion, then it seems to me that Craig’s assertion that the Ukrainian people are better served by the E.U as opposed to a Federalist concept more closely aligned with Russia, is a disingenuous one. Murray appears to be basing his analysis on the discredited assumption that wealth trickles down under neoliberalism as opposed to gushing upwards. Or is it his claim that E.U is not a neoliberal project?

  378. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    6 May, 2014 - 5:49 pm

    Daniel; I agree with Craig on most issues and feel most of his analysis is spot-on, but he does have a bit of a blind-spot on the EU.

    Just guessing, but I think he feels the EU is the best bad solution Europe has. His roots are in Diplomatic services and he doesn’t want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, but the machinations of Empire make that a steep slope, as he well knows. Anarchy is not in his lexicon, but that is a much misunderstood notion. It has more to do with de-centralized government, so that the Octopus doesn’t grow larger than the people it’s supposed to serve.

  379. Ben, yes, I agree with you that that the scope of Craig’s line of argumentation is limited in as much as he appears not to accept any socioeconomic possibility other than what Dr Johnson termed “the dictatorship of the prevailing orthodoxy”.

    The worthy vision Delor’s had of a federal Europe has in reality mutated into a imperialistic one. How does this play out in terms of Ukraine?

    Well, the E.U Agreement excludes simultaneous membership in a Russian-led customs union and would thus cut off Ukraine from its main trading partner, with which Ukraine’s industry and transport routes are closely connected. The abolition of customs duties on European goods would also mean bankruptcy for many Ukrainian industries.

    The terms of the agreement, which include the introduction of E.U rules for labour market deregulation, the privatization of state enterprises and a reduction in the public debt, would have a social impact similar to the E.U austerity programs imposed on Greece, Romania and other countries.

    The IMF is already denying Ukraine a much-needed credit because the government refuses to hike the price of gas by 40 percent—a move that would inevitably result in the death of many unemployed people and pensioners unable to pay their heating bills.

    The Association Agreement would turn the country into an extended workbench for German and European companies, which could produce at lower wage rates than those in China. At the same time, the country’s natural resources, its vast and fertile landmass, and its domestic market of 46 million inhabitants make Ukraine a mouthwatering prospect for German and European businesses.

    It’s the lack of an emphases on these issues that undermines Craig’s otherwise sound analysis.

  380. lucydiclonius

    6 May, 2014 - 6:31 pm

    Semblance are you aware how many Poles the Banderists killed?

  381. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    6 May, 2014 - 6:40 pm

    Daniel; My question. http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/05/world-domination/comment-page-2/#comment-456151

    Craigs response.

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/05/world-domination/comment-page-2/#comment-456153

    Is this feasible? Is the EU going to provide the bail-out under the circumstances?

    After all; say hello to the new boss, same as the old boss.

  382. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    6 May, 2014 - 7:24 pm

    Sending gold to the Fed……sure seems a sticky-wicket.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-06/and-first-thing-ukraine-will-buy-imf-money

  383. Ben,

    Craig’s line seems to be that, under the circumstances, the E.U is the best way for Ukraine to go. He cites the improvement in living standards in post-Cold War Poland as an example. I would contend that the breaking of the post-War consensus that existed between capital and labour – from around the mid-1970s onwards – has resulted in the acceptance by many of a prevailing socioeconomic orthodoxy which is impacting negatively on the vast majority of working people throughout the E.U.

    This is the kind of bitter neoliberal pill the people of Ukraine are expected to swallow on the basis of a better tomorrow. This, of course, is very much a subjective determination. With the prospect of a 40 per cent reduction in pensions, in addition to numerous other severe austerity measures, the people of Ukraine are unlikely to be persuaded by the E.U promise of this better tomorrow.
    In fact, so harsh is the E.U/IMF medicine, many will not live to witness their supposed increasing living standards.

    Subjectivity aside, objectively speaking, it’s true that a minority in Poland have benefited massively from E.U membership and the ending of the Cold War. But it’s also true that the vast majority of Poles have seen their relative standards of living – as measured by real disposable income – fall.

    Relative poverty is the significant factor that it seems to me Murray has failed to acknowledge. What the era of neoliberalism illustrates, is that rates of inequality within the countries of the E.U are increasing to levels reminiscent of the Victorian era. This will almost certainly lead to widespread civil unrest in the near future.

  384. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    6 May, 2014 - 7:58 pm

    “Subjectivity aside, objectively speaking, it’s true that a minority in Poland have benefited massively from E.U membership and the ending of the Cold War. But it’s also true that the vast majority of Poles have seen their relative standards of living – as measured by real disposable income – fall.”

    Daniel;

    This is the mirror-image of Western experience with ‘trickle-down’ economic theory. It is the focus of acrimony in the US, as well, and we supposedly have all the marbles. The only element holding up our britches is the Petro-dollar, which is an annoying feature for many nations, no less Putin. BRICS is his answer to PD, and the TPP is a direct attack against the US losing it’s muscle on the world market.

    Wheels within wheels, as they say.

  385. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    6 May, 2014 - 8:00 pm

    correction; TPP is a direct attack BY the US and fellow conspiriators.

  386. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    6 May, 2014 - 8:07 pm

    TPP was joined by US in 2011, the same year BRICS was formed.

  387. Resident Dissident

    6 May, 2014 - 8:12 pm

    “then it seems to me that Craig’s assertion that the Ukrainian people are better served by the E.U as opposed to a Federalist concept more closely aligned with Russia, is a disingenuous one.”

    Before accusing Craig of being disingenuous perhaps you might wish to explain why you believe that Russia is a better defender of federalism than the EU – which is something of a federalist structure itself and contains a number of federal states. You might also wish to ponder what Putin and his cronies mean when they refer to the vertical of power.

  388. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    6 May, 2014 - 8:21 pm

    Federailsm basically means de-centralized power.

  389. Resident Dissident

    6 May, 2014 - 8:21 pm

    “I notice, and I do not want this to be misconstrued as anti-Jewish, whenever it is shown that those whom the hairy bridged-wellers support, have been guilty of horrendous crimes against humanity in Odessa, and the illegal government they support lies about it, there is a mass Exodus from the blog.”

    Garbage – my only Exodus was to work this morning, and I have made it absolutely clear that what happened in Odessa was completely wrong. As for being anti- Jewish – you made that clear without a shadow of doubt last week.

    I noticed that you still persist in the line that the Ukrainians are fascist – but ignore the evidence I posted that Svoboda’s standing in opinion polls has fallen steadily to only 2.1% considerably less than the 12.5% obtained by Russia’s leading fascist party in the last Duma elections.

  390. Resident Dissident

    6 May, 2014 - 8:23 pm

    Federailsm basically means de-centralized power.

    Agreed – so explain how it works in Russia under Putin and why Ukrainians should think that “Russia is a better defender of federalism than the EU”?

  391. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    6 May, 2014 - 8:27 pm

    “ignore the evidence I posted that Svoboda’s standing in opinion polls has fallen steadily to only 2.1% considerably less than the 12.5% obtained by Russia’s leading fascist party in the last Duma elections.”

    Heh. Obummer started off with huge numbers. Now that we see what he is doing, not so much, but he’s still in power.

  392. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    6 May, 2014 - 8:30 pm

    “– so explain how it works in Russia under Putin and why Ukrainians should think that “Russia is a better defender of federalism than the EU”?”

    I think you are mischaracterizing Daniels comment. How was Putin derping around the Ukraine?. His so-called ‘puppet’ Prime Minister supported the IMF with all the warts. Putin certainly couldn’t have been happy with that.

  393. Resident Dissident

    6 May, 2014 - 8:33 pm

    “You Russophobes better give yourselves a shake and clear your heads, because the Russia the crude propaganda you’ve been over-exposed to and has taught you to hate, will, must inevitably be inside the EU you’ve lemming-like cleaved to suicidally, simply to express your xenophobic hatred of Russians.”

    Some of us are quite capable of distinguishing between the Putin regime and Russians.

  394. Resident Dissident

    6 May, 2014 - 8:37 pm

    “I’m living in Poland. Since November I’ve been watching Ukrainian satellite television every day — often for hours. What first struck me was the fact that — after a period of adjustment — I could understand practically everything they said (unless they spoke extremely quickly). Not just the same words, but very often the same turns of phrase.”

    A few weeks back we had Sofia quoting a fellow Putinista saying that Ukrainian was a dialect of Russian – you cannot both be right. I very much doubt that Kyiv would like to become a second city to Warsaw.

  395. “my only Exodus was to work this morning”

    Have they stopped you posting comments from work?

  396. By the way RD I have never said Ukrainians were fascists, I have only ever referred to the fascist government thugs.

  397. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    6 May, 2014 - 8:46 pm

    “IMF programmes have a fairly good record in easing the adjustment of basically sound economies in currency or debt crises. They have a much less good record in increasing trend growth in dysfunctional economies within the timescale of their own lending programme. (Anyway, that’s the job of the World Bank, or its regional counterparts.) Going with Christine from the local bank rather than dodgy Uncle Vlad is still the right decision, but Ukraine should be aware of the long-term risks as well as the short-term pain involved.”

    http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2014/05/01/opinion-the-imf-or-uncle-vlad-ukraine-makes-its-choice/?Authorised=false

    Google has it’s first entries on more fawfaw on Putin’s eagerness to see IMF cash…bolonius

  398. Resident Dissident

    6 May, 2014 - 8:56 pm

    “Have they stopped you posting comments from work?”

    Not allowed and never has been – would also be highly unprofessional.

  399. RD, if the figure about Svoboda in the opinion polls is correct (2.1%) it has hardly been falling steadily. It has fallen rapidly from the last elections. Where was it taken? Donetsk?

    “Svoboda is hardly a fringe organization. In the 2012 election won by the now deposed president, Viktor Yanukovitch, the Party took 10.45 percent of the vote and over 40 percent in parts of the western Ukraine. While the west voted overwhelmingly for the Fatherland Party’s Yulia Tymoshenko, the more populous east went overwhelmingly for the Party of the Regions’ Yanukovitch. The latter won the election handily, 48.8 percent to 45.7 percent.”

    http://bulatlat.com/main/2014/04/02/the-rise-of-the-quasi-fascists-the-dark-side-of-the-ukraine-revolt/#sthash.5Vx5aO58.dpuf

    What do you say to that?

  400. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    6 May, 2014 - 9:07 pm

    ‘Nuff said…

    ” Ukraine’s former Prime Minister Yulia Timoshenko, who is now running for Ukrainian president, has said that she was the only politician in Ukraine capable of conducting political reforms the country badly needs.
    Speaking at a news conference in Nikolayev, Timoshenko put it quite straight: if the country elects other candidate, there will be no avoiding a “third round of revolution.””

    http://en.itar-tass.com/world/730688

    How badly does she want the IMF, RD.? The oligarchs know that’s the safety pin for keeping their ill-gotten gains.

    “Just dump the obligations onto the little people”

  401. Peacewisher

    6 May, 2014 - 9:08 pm

    48 people still missing from the Odessa fire as well as the 46 already accounted FOR.

    Was it “false flag?”:
    http://rt.com/op-edge/156832-odessa-bloodshed-ukrainian-turmoil/

  402. I could certainly see the fascists’ share of the vote having fallen further after the deaths they deliberately caused in Odessa. Decent people do not like to be governed by a party of thugs, and the three pronged alliance, under Yatsenyuk, includes Svoboda, the SS arm of the illegal government.

  403. Peacewisher

    6 May, 2014 - 9:13 pm

    I may be behind the curve here, but just read that the Regional referendum vote in Ukraine has been axed:

    http://rt.com/news/157204-ukraine-parliament-referendum-vote/

  404. Peacewisher

    6 May, 2014 - 9:18 pm

    @John: Hope you are right, but if the control of information is effective enough, they won’t know what the right sector thugs are doing… Do you think ordinary Brits knew about the slave trade? Do you think the average German would have heard about what happened in Guernica?

  405. The livestream has just shown footage of US paratroopers on exercises in Poland. Sabre-rattling one hopes.

  406. Yes, you’re right Peacewisher if you mean the fall in support for the fascists. But communication of information is not like it was at the time captured by Picasso.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guernica_%28painting%29

  407. Peacewisher

    6 May, 2014 - 9:41 pm

    @John: Yes, I was. I hope I’m not being disrespectful to Craig’s friends if I wonder what percentage of Ukrainians independently research the Internet and read Wikipedia…

    Good to see that the Wikipedia article faithfully recalls the covering up of the Guernica painting at a highly significant televised meeting in February 2003 just before Iraq was invaded. Probably didn’t fit with “Operation Iraqi Freedom”.

  408. Live video from Mariupol. Pro-Russians said to be in control of town. Ukrainian army on outskirts. Fighting reported. Webcam below in town centre.

    http://www.0629.in.ua/index/veb_kamery_onlajn/0-30

  409. Peacewisher, thanks for the link to the parliamentary vote banning the autonomy referendum. I notice they banned the Communists from voting too. It is a wonderful parliament when the thugs stop people speaking as they did recently by beating them up. What people will do for power and control cannot be overestimated. Reminiscent to me of how the Bolsheviks came to power but more blatant, waiting for the Mensheviks (who would really have had a majority) had they not been at the synagogue.

    As to the ordinary people in the eighteenth century, they knew about the Slave Trade through the churches, but common people would not get a vote for a century and a half, and therefore had no say in what was done. My thesis was about Robert Bage, who in his novels campaigned for women’s rights like the abolition of dowries and finishing schools, was anti-war, anti-dueling, wanted education for all and was an active voice for the slaves especially through his novel “Man as he is” with Fidel’s story. He also supported the Staffordshire campaign for the abolition of slavery and was a trustee of the Elford Charity School, showing that he backed up his words with acts.

  410. Resident Dissident

    6 May, 2014 - 10:20 pm

    The steady fall in the Svoboda % has been since the Presidential elections were called – see my original link to Wikipedia. Perhaps Mr Goss would like to comment on the consistently higher level of support for Zhirinovsky’s fascists in Russia – or perhaps he is only interested in attacking those fascists who oppose his world view – while quite happy to not to so when said fascists support his stance as in Russia, Syria and previously Iraq.

  411. Yes he would like to comment. I despise NAZIS and Fascists in whatever country they live and try to ply their disgusting wares. If that is in Russia it is as bad as in Ukraine. Nevertheless in Russia they have an elected government which may even use transparent ballot boxes to show everything is above board, rather than Karl Rove’s electronic system that got your favourite warmonger George W. Bush illegally elected. What is it with you that you love illegal governments, and other warmongers like Tony Blair and Jack Straw so much?

  412. @RD: Thank goodness Putin keeps them in their place. We are now being reminded (if it was needed…) what happens to a country if fascists are allowed to do their thing.

  413. The real fascists don’t do the silly walks and bad moustaches any more, and they’ve got powerful PR, with the whole of the western media at their beck and call and they’ve secure nests in the governments of the US and its harlot minions. Traditional comic-book Fascists of the inept sort are however already inside the EU along with the less showy ones, in control and ensconced in every crevice of the Polish governing classes. When even a part of Poland’s role in the events in Ukraine sinks in, a backlash within and without will change that country irrevocably. I think we could all forego voting in the farcical EU MEP elections on May 22nd or spoil our ballot papers with crude drawings of a pornographic nature, if it weren’t for the pleasure of giving Labour, Tories and LibDems the severest drubbing possible –as it looks as if the dear dear EU itself will not survive in its present form, perhaps not in any form, as a result of Washington’s Polish Putsch. Yet no-one can say they didn’t know by now the US destroys all that it touches.

    It is clear in the EU-NATO relationship, the EU for all its folderol is very much the exceedingly junior partner, and compared with the demonic death cult that is NATO, even the shady mafioso of the EU’s Council of Ministers since positively angelic, democratic and accountable. Yet without NATO, who can prevent the Asiatic hordes ascending Mt. Everest on chair-lifts, slithering down the other side in their ice-kayaks and from there on swift camels heading straight for the channel coast and turning up Chipping Norton by teatime?

  414. @ john

    I really love gardeners, if we didn’t have plants and flowers we really would be in the proverbial.

    How do you John welcome the control of man?

  415. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    7 May, 2014 - 7:48 am

    I was wondering where Corporal Macky had got to ‘cos I was rather missing his stentorian tones.

    A swift visit to Squonk’s place reveals all. Macky writes:

    “Craig’s comments iro the massacre in Odessa are beyond belief, his obscene mitigating & excusing attempts are so disgusting that I can’t bring myself to address him at present; every last bit of respect & admiration I once had for him is now gone, this Ukraine situation has reveal his real nature, and it is very ugly indeed, bordering on evil; I no longer believe that he found “Western support for the dictatorial Karimov regime unconscionable”, but rather suspect that he become a whistle-blower purely by mishap, as there is no way that a person’s moral integrity can be so flexible.”

    Throwing out of pram, toys, baby?

    Anyone else missing him? :)

  416. “How do you John welcome the control of man?”

    I love the wild flowers myself Jay, the ones which find their own little patch, like ivy-leaved toadflax climbing up a wall.

    To answer your question, not very much. We have freedom in the west, we are told, but that freedom has its boundaries and border controls. In a perfect world the borders would be the first to go. Border flowers, while pretty where they grow, cannot expand beyond their limits. When the borders were removed from Europe we could freely go where none had freely gone before. A world without borders would be a beautiful place. Hope I understood you Jay.

  417. Ba'al Zevul ( :-) All The Way To The Bank)

    7 May, 2014 - 10:29 am

    Another take on the UKraine:

    http://johnhelmer.net/?p=10693#more-10693

    Too many issues to summarise – but a point to ponder might be:

    With the exceptions of Timchenko and Igor Sechin, the names on the US sanctions list are notable for their lack of oligarch command and control of Russia’s major economic enterprises and sectors; the evidence of US Government reports on those sectors shows it. According to the Wikileaks archive of State Department cables, the oligarch names are Vladimir Potanin, Alexei Mordashov, Mikhail Prokhorov, Victor Rashnikov, and Oleg Deripaska. More potent than the State Department’s files are the annual threat assessment reports of the Director of National Intelligence. These have identified “criminals and criminally linked oligarchs [who] enhance the ability of state or state-allied actors to undermine competition in gas, oil, aluminum, and precious metals markets.” Their names are implied: Sechin, Timchenko, Potanin, Prokhorov, Deripaska, and (until recently) Suleiman Kerimov. The only overlap between the current sanctions designations and the “criminally linked oligarchs”, according to the US Government documents, is Sechin and Timchenko.

  418. Ba'al Zevul ( :-) All The Way To The Bank)

    7 May, 2014 - 10:30 am

    the
    Habit, sorry..
    UKraine
    Typo, sorry.

  419. Thanks John

    I believe you are just in your beliefs, for me internal spiritual boundaries exist that need addressing, ones that I have developed in my mind.
    Like you say John “hope not hate”.

    John, don’t we need tendencies’ that set us all on a path for higher ethical values relative to our true current state of existence? A concept that if applied disseminates universally.

    Thanks John , well fed and watered!

    I

  420. Should have gone easier on the Vimto Ba’al, it’s left you with a touch of the Timoshenkos.

  421. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    7 May, 2014 - 12:46 pm

    Mr Goss

    “In a perfect world the borders would be the first to go.”
    ___________________

    Debatable. Why shouldn’t hunger be the first thing to go in a perfect world, for instance?

    And – as you keep pointing out with your posts – it’s not a perfect world. And in an imperfect world, borders have their raison d’être.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    We have freedom in the west, we are told, but that freedom has its boundaries..”

    __________________

    And a jolly good job too.

  422. Jay, thanks.

    Was that your analysis that oddie linked at 7 May, 2014 – 1:11 am?

    As to the spiritual boundaries, yes I guess others might call them ethical or moral barriers that ought not to be crossed. I dislike mosquitoes as much as they like me. If they are coming for me or biting me I swat them. Last night a mosquito had somehow got its legs stuck in a soapy residue and it was struggling. I helped it onto a piece of toilet tissue and left it. This morning it was beside the paper dead. There is no real moral. Next mosquito season they will not stop biting me because I tried to help one of their injured comrades. It is what they are programmed to do, like the Nazis, and trolls.

    Are you a Buddhist?

  423. Hague has been speaking from the eponymous Ukraine Crisis Media Centre in Kiev:

    SCHEDULE OF PRESS BRIEFINGS IN UKRAINE CRISIS MEDIA CENTRE WEDNESDAY, MAY 7, 2014

    11:30 Jerome Vacher, IMF Resident Representative in Ukraine

    12:30 Press briefing of the top five Democratic Alliance candidates to Kyiv City Council:
    • Vasyl Gatsko, Head of the party “Democratic Alliance”
    • Galyna Yanchenko, Expert of the Anti-Corruption Action Centre
    • Dmytro Levytsky, Lawyer
    • Andriy Bohdanovych, Deputy head of the party “Democratic Alliance”
    • Olena Shulyak, General Director of “Midland Development Ukraine”
    Topic: “Kyiv City Council elections, presentation of the top five candidates to Kyiv City Council and the program of Democratic Alliance”

    13:30 Press briefing of the Maidan Hundreds’ Leaders: Anna Kovalenko, 39 hundred leader, Anatoliy Zhernovy, Advisor to the Minister of Defense, Sergiy Pidvalny, 11 hundred leader, 24 hundred leader. Topic: “Maidan Hundreds are organized and ready to defend Kiev residents from the provocations on 8-9 May”

    14:30 William Hague, British Foreign Secretary, MP, Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs.
    http://uacrisis.org/schedule-may-7-2014/

    Nice bunch.

  424. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    7 May, 2014 - 2:53 pm

    “Anyone else missing him?”

    My stars. Could it be you miss the ‘cat o’ nine-tailss’ in your masochistic learning-curve. Now that you’ve graduated from novice to adept, allow me to be master tormentor. I seem to have gotten under your skin. Quite a feat for a gadfly to drive a blowfly nutz with buzzing and diving, isn’t it?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowfly

  425. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    7 May, 2014 - 2:55 pm

    He’s thrown quite the childish fit at Squonk. He’s trying the patience of yet another blog host. He needs a diaper change.

  426. Michel Chossudovsky, who has published several of Craig’s articles, compares the Syrian crisis and that in Ukraine and asks if there are similarities.

    http://nsnbc.me/2014/05/07/us-nato-applying-syria-model-ukraine/

  427. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    7 May, 2014 - 4:37 pm

    RD; take note of John’s link. This issue will continue to haunt your pov.

    John; Why are so few willing to make the Sevastapol/Iran/Syria linkage? Really. It’s quite curious.

  428. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    7 May, 2014 - 4:43 pm

  429. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    7 May, 2014 - 4:48 pm

  430. “John; Why are so few willing to make the Sevastapol/Iran/Syria linkage? Really. It’s quite curious.”

    I really don’t know Ben. Denial? Throwback from Soviet days and the Cold War still going on in their heads? Belief that the BBC tells the truth?

    What hurts me is to see decent people, people I respect, throwing their weight behind Svoboda and Right Sector and the plain violence paid for by the owners of Nugent, Ashton and company in Ukraine, when if it happened here, they would be the first to criticise it. We have kept a lid on the National Front, BNP, EDL but we’ve still allowed what I call the “human face of nationalism” in the form of Nigel Farage’s UKIP. There was a Party Political broadcast on behalf of UKIP last night. It is already getting more than its fair share of coverage. Anyway one of its councillors is an Asian, so at least one token Asian to try and show it is not the racist party it is.

  431. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    7 May, 2014 - 6:13 pm

    Ben says of me :

    “He’s trying the patience of yet another blog host.”

    _________________________

    I believe almost nothing the Californian Gadfly says, but I do believe him when he hints that he disapproves of people who try the patience of blog hosts.

    That is probably why he posts things like this about our host Craig Murray on other people’s blogs :

    “Craig is becoming the bureaucrat I feared he would be. He accuses me of being deliberately stupid, but it’s just projection. I do have a hard time with some of Craigs comments wrt his manner of expressing himself, but after a while in the back-and-forth it looks as though he is rock-headed. Just like an imperious public official without anyone to answer to.”

    Not cowardly at all, he’s just being considerate! :)

  432. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    7 May, 2014 - 6:38 pm

    continuing in his ‘rash’ of defensive posts.

  433. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    7 May, 2014 - 6:40 pm

    John; Putin is on the same page as US on referendum. Delaying elections plays into both gameplans? Civil war does not keep the money rolling in. It;s nice to agree on something.

  434. John Humphries much better on Radio 4 this morning (e.g. Hague: [Russian] Propaganda, Humphries: No, facts. Even Hague was very quick to condemn what happened at Odessa. British media don’t seem to know how to take Putin’s latest change of mind. Seem to be resorting to the good old favourite… “he’s lying”.

    I have a feeling that the fire of Odessa will down as a significant moment in history. And that we know the truth is all down to those unbelievably brave people who stayed and took those era-defining photographs that I can just picture in future history e-text books. Those poor people inside the TU building who were abused before they died… their spirits will surely hope they didn’t die in vain.

  435. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    7 May, 2014 - 11:55 pm

    Ben

    Stop prosing on about rashes and just explain to readers why you bad-mouth your host Craig on other people’s blogs. If you have a beef with Craig – perhaps because he told you off a few times – why do you not tell us about it on Craig’s blog instead of on Squonk’s? Face to face, so to speak.

  436. Spot on, Craig Murray. Only one (major) problem – the Russians did not migrate to Muscovy from Kievan Rus all those hundreds of years ago. That is a myth that became necessary to Ecaterina the Great when she realised that she married into the remains of the original franchise and set about re-writing the history of Muscovy. Muscovy historians that pre-date Ecaterina’s project such as Karamzin freely admitted that ethnically Muscovy was closest to Finnish-Hungarian tribes – Chud’ etc. In this context the reflexive Russian contempt for their ‘brother’ nations of Ukraine and Belarus is easily understood. They recognise the implicit challenge to their cherished national myth of being the ‘true descendants’ of Kievan Rus, the oldest civilisation in the region. Therefore, Ukrainians and Russians MUST be one and the same people. Those who disagree must be labelled Nazis and so on.

  437. Sofia Kibo Noh

    8 May, 2014 - 2:41 am

    John. 6 02pm

    “…plain violence paid for by the owners of Nugent, Ashton and company in Ukraine…”

    Yes. Paid-for violence…

    As Ashton said once before, “…Gosh!”

    Ben. 6 38pm

    La infección no va a desaparecer!

    Después de la exposición a la erupción, lávese las manos.

    Ben. 6 40pm

    “…both gameplans? “

    Y la estrategia es muy importante también.

    ¿Dónde está el genio que planeaba poker frente al ajedrez?

    Un millón de gracias.

    Peacewisher. 10 33pm

    “…era-defining photographs…”

    Yes. The image of the Ukrainian flag joyfully waving in front of the burning Trade Union Building, while injured .

    http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/05/02/trade-union-building-in-ukraines-odessa-idINL6N0NO3Z520140502

    Evgueni. 1 42pm

    So this is justified then OK then? Isn’t it all the Cockroaches deserve?

    http://www.demotix.com/news/4647905/aftermath-blaze-trade-unions-building-odessa#media-4647577

    I think you will like this then: “Join EuroMaidan PR: Web YouTube Twitter Twitter RUS: EuromaidanPR_RU Facebook.”

       

  438. Sofia Kibo Noh

    8 May, 2014 - 2:45 am

    Correction: The image of the Ukrainian flag joyfully waving in front of the burning Trade Union Building, while the injured are dragged and beaten.

  439. The name Nugent used earlier above is incorrect. It is Nuland.

    She is still at it incidentally.

    Ukraine crisis: US senators ‘frustrated’ with White House sanctions strategy
    White House officials struggled to explain what would trigger harsher round of economic measures against Russia at Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing

    6 May 2014
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/06/us-senators-white-house-russia-sanctions-ukraine

    ‘“At some point, the nationalist fever in Russia will break and give way to a sweaty and harsh realization that there are economic costs,” said Victoria Nuland, the assistant secretary of state for Europe.

    But Nuland and her colleagues from the Pentagon and Treasury Department struggled to articulate what specifically would prompt the Obama administration to adopt the even harsher measures they threatened last week – particularly sanctioning entire swaths of the Russian economy.

    Nuland said that should the Donetsk and Luhansk separatist referendum occur and Russia follow up with recognition and the deployment of forces into the Ukrainian areas, “that will be a trigger” for sanctioning the finance, energy and defense sectors of the Russian economy.’

  440. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    8 May, 2014 - 8:47 am

    Mary reports

    “But Nuland and her colleagues from the Pentagon and Treasury Department struggled to articulate what specifically would prompt the Obama administration to adopt the even harsher measures they threatened last week”
    ___________

    …and then goes on to say :

    “Nuland said that should the Donetsk and Luhansk separatist referendum occur and Russia follow up with recognition and the deployment of forces into the Ukrainian areas, “that will be a trigger”

    Sounds clear enough to me. Where’s the “struggle”? Perhaps it’s just you, struggling to understand?

  441. Spot on Mary. She’s a nasty piece of work that “Fuck the EU” Nuland. But this is just sabre-rattling. Should the US impose sanctions against energy it will hit Germany as well, and they won’t stand for that. They won’t bend over the barrel like Cameron begging Obama to give him one, not after knowing that the NSA tapped Angela Merkel’s phone. Taking on Europe is going to be the biggest mistake ever of the transatanic alliance.

  442. Thanks for the correction re Nugent = Nuland. Less pop and more popcorn methinks.

  443. @Sofia: The image you describe would be a consequence of the Ukrainian Parliament proclaiming the followers of Bandera as National Heroes. One wonders how they came to do that back in 2011!

  444. Sofia Kibo Noh

    8 May, 2014 - 11:06 am

    Peacewisher. 10 26am

    These horrific events don’t just happen. Some hatreds are cherished and carefully nurtured thruogh the years. I wonder how much of Nugget’s $5,000,000,000 was sunk into this part of the US investment?

    “On January 22, 2010, on the Day of Unity of Ukraine, the then-President of Ukraine Viktor Yushchenko awarded to Bandera the title of Hero of Ukraine (posthumously) for “defending national ideas and battling for an independent Ukrainian state.”

    From, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera#Attitudes_in_Ukraine_towards_Bandera

    And what would you say is the significance of this image?

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/Rice_-_Yatsenyuk_2007_09_23_ukraine_600.jpg

  445. Sofia the Rice/Yatsenyuk photograph might be one of the first of these two war-criminals together.

  446. Sofia Kibo Noh

    8 May, 2014 - 1:20 pm

    John.

    Predictable, confused and paranoid Putinista-speak.

    It might have looked like someone else. In fact that is Yats with his tutor Ms Condescenda Vice at the Beltway School of Creative Writing.

    Who else do you think might have taught him the power of irony?

    It seems it was a popular course.

    “Turchynov: there can be no dialogue with armed criminals, who kill people”

  447. Re Condy/Yats photo: It’s up there with McCain sharing a platform with the Svoboda leader last December.

    But there is no concrete evidence to suggest that the US in any way had a hand in the coup. And anyway it’s not a coup, it’s an unscheduled transfer of power.

  448. “But there is no concrete evidence to suggest that the US in any way had a hand in the coup. And anyway it’s not a coup, it’s an unscheduled transfer of power.”

    Sorry Mike there is overwhelming evidence, and not just the fact that only two senators opposed congress in pledging money to the illegal regime, but long before the coup they were funding Yatsenyuk.

    This is a page from his website which was taken down when they realised how embarrassing it was.

    http://openukraine.org/en/about/partners

  449. I should mention that Swedbank has withdrawn from being a partner and sold its stake to Delta.

  450. That Swedbank has withdrawn its support is interesting. Have the Baltic states and Finland, or China, all countries in which it operates, put pressure on the bank not to support Yatsenyuk? Interesting.

  451. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    8 May, 2014 - 5:22 pm

    “Some of us are quite capable of distinguishing between the Putin regime and Russians.”

    But are you capable of distinguishing fascist regimes from Ukrainians who oppose IMF austerity?

  452. I was being sarcastic, John. Surely you know what I think about the American Empire by now.

  453. Mike, apols mate. There used to be somebody I think called Michael. My memory’s not so good these days. I am the person they named the Confused.com website after. :)

  454. Ha. No sweat, John. I wear my Putin pants with pride, matching socks too if you believe some people. Think it’ll be the duvet cover next…

  455. Minor point but keeps popping up – народность is the wrong word. The two terms to distinguish between ethnicity and nationality are национальность and гражданство (citizenship) or подданство (of subjects).

    https://www.google.co.uk/#q=%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D1%8C

  456. Evgueni (or can I call you Eugene) I would not say that it keeps popping up but thank you for your explanation. Actually on the first page of comments Matthew Maly gave a similar explanation. I took a look at Matthew’s curriculum vitae which shows him to be quite an expert, speaking fluent English and Russian, with a working knowledge of French and Ukrainian, which must be a quite salient commodity at this time. Perhaps you missed it.

    http://russia-as-it-is.ru/

  457. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_children

    @ John

    Know I am not a Buddhist,

    We can take the teachings of all religions and apply them to ourselves to become a ” good neighbour”

    Being critical and making applications is a realistic way of controlling our being.
    Although it is easier said than done.

  458. Jay, it was the search for personal spiritual development and “path for higher ethical values” that made me think of Buddhism. Like you say Jay nearly all religions seek similar enlightenment and peace is a the heart of most teaching, but this is hard to live up to, especially when we seem to be in a state of perpetual conflict.

  459. @ John

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UzQNPyyNLXc

    Please understand that it could all be altered by design whether by nature or nurture.

  460. “We need to dare to speak truth to power.” Professor Griff.

    This young man reminds me of George Fox, who started the Society of Friends (Quakers). He was never afraid to speak truth to power.

    Read the section “Encounters with Oliver Cromwell” and you will see what I mean.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Fox

  461. Looks like Kiev authorities started their move to the right back in 2010, when they defied the newly re-elected Yanukovich and stopped celebrating “Victory Day”. Interesting article below… I didn’t know that Timoshenko was so corrupt she sold Ukraine’s Kyoto “greenhouse gas” quota… perhaps this wasn’t widely reported in the west:

    http://rt.com/politics/president-yanukovich-ukrainian-day/

  462. That’s right Peacewisher, hardly reported at all. This article talks about the money she has stashed away in western bank accounts.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/exclusive-uk-banks-in-row-over-yulia-tymoshenko-millions-9177693.html

  463. Usmanov drops to No 2 in the list. Excellent news.

    Note the obscenity of the Grosvenor and Cadogan riches based on rising London property values.

    11 May 2014
    ‘Rich List’ counts more than 100 UK billionaires
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27360032

    Branson’s wealth has risen. His profits from his activities within OUR NHS must have contributed.

  464. This individual has entered the billionaires’ list.

    Israel’s wealthiest man Idan Ofer set to move to London amid tax row http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israels-wealthiest-man-idan-ofer-set-to-move-to-london-amid-tax-row-8566269.html

    Good news – ‘The Israeli economy, which has been firing on all cylinders while others have been hit by the credit crunch in recent years, has itself shown recent signs of running out of steam. Street protests in Tel Aviv – including one where a man set himself alight – have demanded the cost of living for ordinary Israelis be reduced.

    Israel’s new government – largely elected with a mandate to stem the burden on the middle classes – is expected to announce tax hikes soon. According to an editorial in the left-leaning Haaretz newspaper last week, finance ministry experts are working out ways to raise an extra NIS 4bn, which would include hikes in corporation, income and capital gains tax as well as VAT.’

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