Miliband Plays Racist Card

by craig on June 27, 2014 5:55 pm in Uncategorized

Ed Miliband: Labour will close the land border with independent Scotland lest black people and other foreigners get in.

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105 Comments

  1. Looks to me that England, especially its Labour Party, is getting worried that the Yes vote will win in the referendum.

    Miliband is panicking, playing the No vote before it becomes necessary. England will have to see what immigration policies an independent Scotland adopts before it considers borders.

  2. Trowbridge

    Your last sentence breached the vague connection to sanity criterion and has been deleted. Can remove the rest of the comment if you wish.

  3. You can do what you want with what remains of my post, but what happened in South Korea, Japan, the Philippines, and Malaysia when it comes to man-made disasters is a matter of record, not simply a creation of my alleged crazy brain.

  4. “I think it’s certainly the case that we would have to look at the issue of a border if you have different immigration policies.”

    You forgot the qualifier that Miliband gave – are you saying that Scotland would have different immigration policies were it to vote for independence? We tend to hear very little of what Scotland would actually do differently if it were independent compared with attacks on those who are against independence.

  5. Reuters says Miliband’s Labour will look at border posts if Scotland votes for independence – sounds like scare-mongering to me.

  6. I’d say that it’s Scotland that may have to beef up its borders, against English refugees.

    Milliband’s a joke. Cameron’s a joke. Clegg’s very obviously a joke. The BBC and UK mainstream media more generally are now the saddest sickest joke in all human history, after US media.

    Will the real leaders please stand up, and show that you have the faintest clue what’s going on in the world today, and say what you intend to do about it.

    Otherwise, we’re all off!

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-27/mainstream-media-admits-us-dollars-domination-coming-end

  7. Surprised they dont just build a wall…

    Oh hang on….

  8. In the big photo he is showing his teeth – long match ban.
    But in the other photo he’s got a Nuri Maliki long face on – I’ve done everything I’ve been told – how many more years of this rubbish before I get my pension?

    It can’t be nice being criticised by your party when all you are is an animation.

  9. How about just completing and beefing up Hadrian’s?

  10. I think Scotland will need a wall to keep out extreme right wing politicians and those who elected them!

  11. Alarming stories. Will it end being a border or a cease-fire line ?
    Will Scotland become a version of North Korea ? Or will Scotland constantly complain about disruptions to communications run by foreign owned companies ?

  12. “are you saying that Scotland would have different immigration policies were it to vote for independence”
    “Yes” campaigners have often emphasised that they would encourage more immigration into Scotland, ESLO.
    The problem is- as the proportion of immigrants in England especially compared with Scotland shows- that much more immigrants want to go to England than Scotland. So, an independent Scotland will either have to admit immigrants on the same basis as England, make Scotland much more attractive to immigrants, make sure immigrants do not quietly move to England or face strict border controls at the English border.

    To the people who talk of renovating Hadrian’s Wall: do you propose to hand over large chunks of Durham and Northumberland to Scotland? The Antonine Wall would be a much better candidate for adaptation.

  13. Andrew Leslie

    27 Jun, 2014 - 7:20 pm

    Trowbridge etc
    That’s fine. It means an independent Scotland gaining part of northern England and part of Newcastle.

  14. John Edwards

    27 Jun, 2014 - 7:30 pm

    I think Miliband is making a serious point. Getting into England via Scotland would be an obvious way to evade immigration controls if the relevant rules were to diverge. Nothing to do with racism.

  15. Scotland is yet to enjoy the full fruits of enforced enrichment. You can therefore be forgiven a certain level of naivety, though our host ought to know better with his disparaging remarks about the English working class.

  16. Hector ^,

    Antonine wall????

    So just give England a large chunk of the Scottish Central Belt and Lowlands??

    Doh!

  17. There’s nothing racist in the indigenous people of Scotland or any other territory claiming the exclusive right to decide how their land is used and the right to benefit from those uses, subject to the restriction that the uses must be consistent with the enjoyment of the land by future generations, such right clearly entailing the right to exclude people from elsewhere who might want to occupy the territory and benefit from its use.

    Such a position is just basic democracy, something we know liberals hate, determined as they are to genocide the European peoples through mass migration, multi-culturalism and the suppression of the actual will of the people.

    Or are you saying that the recent Canadian Supreme Court ruling defining the territorial rights of Canada’s indigenous peoples in precisely the terms I have just used is racist?

  18. Or as in the case you cite, there is nothing racist in the indigenous people of England claiming the exclusive right to decide how their land is used, i.e., the right to exclude immigrants from an independent Scotland, among other places, whether they be black, white or khaki.

  19. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    27 Jun, 2014 - 7:59 pm

    I think that the following exchange, between Jemand and Mr Scorgie, is so important that it needs to be reproduced here lest it gets lost in this rapid succession of new threads.

    ““I am a secularist Jemand and I stated that in the post you refer to.”

    That’s not really an answer, Doug. You might have also said you are a stamp collector with equal evasiveness.

    Do you have any objections to Iran being a theocracy? I’m sure you would prefer that it were a liberal secular state, but given that it is not, can we count on you to criticise the ongoing retention of Iran’s theological foundations for its government and the inevitable intolerance of minority religions that goes with state-sanctioned primacy of one religion over all others?”

    ________________________

    Jemand’s question echoes a similar one I put to Mr Scorgie. The point of the question was to see if Mr Scorgie opposes the theological regime in Iran with the salme vigour and passion as he opposes what he claims is a future theological regime in Isarel (Isarel as a “Jewish state”).

    This is your chance to clarify in just a minute,, Doug, without hesitation, deviation or your favorite evasion!

  20. ESLO

    The SNP have made very plain that they intend to have a more liberal immigration policy than England. Alex Salmond has said so repeatedly. The SSP and Greens support this too.

  21. CanSpeccy

    It’s a Racist Card. It’s only politics. It doesn’t mean anything. Immigration is only politics, staving off the old Eastern Bloc, and opening trade to Afghanistan and beyond and back again.

    By my own observation, in the quiet street I live in in Birmingham, the Eastern Europeans are massively respectful of the peaceful law and order they suddenly find themselves in. The Asians will not hesitate to call the police if they feel their UK rights have been infringed.

    Commonsense states that immigrants will not only absorb the values of this country over time but also export them.

  22. Ireland has had had a more open immigration policy than the UK for years, and many Somalis have headed for that as an easy option for immigration. There are huge council flat estates which used to be disaster areas in Nechells which have basically been civilised by the calming force of Somalian Islam.

    Everybody likes picking on neo-colonial-sponsored violence of Islam, created by Western agents who want the oil and minerals under Muslim lands. Let’s never forget the ear-biting episode of the worshippers of football as a collective group of out-of control competitive violence, created by the same elite that makes wars in Somalia and Sudan.

  23. An independent Scotland would have to negotiate its own ‘opt out’ of the Schengen area- and given that the EU envisages that even Romania, Bulgaria, & Croatia should join the area at some point, I can foresee the Eurocrats playing hardball on this one.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area

    If that is the case, an independent Scotland within Schengen, unlike the RoI, would cease to be part of the ‘common travel area’ hitherto covering the British Isles.

    Schengen is, along with the Euro, one of the central pillars of the EU project. Mind you, the whole edifice may collapse before we get to the point of Scotland seeking EU membership as a separate state; Switzerland is a Schengen member, and its decision earlier this year to require work permits from the citizens of some member states has so far elicited no response from Brussels.

  24. OldMark

    Personally I look forward to Scotland joining Schengen. If the Tory Ukippers want to cut England off, very much their loss. I am merely pointing out Miliband is just another Little Englander racist.

  25. Immigration is only politics

    Bollocks. On the scale its occurring in Europe it’s genocide.

    Commonsense states that immigrants will not only absorb the values of this country over time but also export them.

    What’s that to do with the the exclusive right of the English to decide how their land is used and their right to benefit from those uses by excluding millions of immigrants as the great majority wish to do?

    Objecting to immigration has nothing to do with one’s views about immigrants as law abiding or civilized people, it is about whether a country is to be occupied by one’s own or posterity or that of a mass of people from elsewhere.

    Mass immigration is the destroyer of diversity. If you love diversity you must respect the right of every nation to a homeland where it remains itself rather than being mongrelized out of existence, a process known technically as introgressive hybridization.

    Anyhow all those Muslims in Britain, including MP’s, demanding a Muslim dominated House of Commons and Sharia law are not respecters of British culture. They are settlers intent of remaking the land in their own cultural and racial image.

  26. The ‘news’ from Westminster becomes ever more surreal. The coalition is in its death throes and the ambitious but useless Miliband attempts some point scoring. He fails.

  27. Miliband is just another Little Englander racist.

    Let me ask it again, since you refused to answer the first time:

    Are you calling Canada’s Supreme Court racist for stating that Canada’s indigenous peoples have the “he exclusive right to decide how their land is used and the right to benefit from those uses,” and if not, on what possible basis can the principle underlying Milliband’s position be deemed racist, when it is clearly in keeping with the wishes of the great majority of the people of England. Christ, even most immigrants in England thing there are too many immigrants.

  28. Mary^

    “He fails”

    Almost as if that was the plan from the start…perish the thought :.)

  29. “Christ, even most immigrants in England think there are too many immigrants.”

    Never enough for Craig. They must be waycist.

  30. Miliband was hosted by Standard Life. A nice lunch in the directors’ dining room was provided presumably. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Life

    ‘Edinburgh-based pensions firm Standard Life, which has nearly 4 million customers in Britain and 5,000 employees in Scotland, has said it will take “whatever action necessary” to protect its business in the event of a breakaway vote, including moving its operations to England.’

    CBI backs no vote in Scottish independence referendum
    Business lobby group accused of failing to consult members before formally registering position, with two firms resigning
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/18/cbi-backs-no-vote-scottish-independence-referendum

    ~~~
    The speech is even worse in print.
    http://labourlist.org/2013/11/ed-miliband-speech-in-edinburgh-a-future-we-build-together-full-text/

  31. CanSpeccy

    I get knocked down. Then I get up again. Genocide is the mass slaughter created by neo/colonial-sponsored ethnic hatred.
    I have heard one of the most senior UK imams call for it in a heated moment, bujt we never heard from him again. I think he got promoted.

    Craig, don’t be daft. Miliband is a stooge. He doesn’t have a racist bone in his penis. Anyway what is it with this penis obsession of yours? Kilt thrill? Twirl it a bit faster, and can you face the audience like a ballet dancer between spins. Ask you wife for lessons.
    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/wp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

  32. That speech given in November 2013.

    Today’s comments were given at a lunch with journalists. Location in Edinburgh not stated.

    Another report.

    Scotland ‘may need border controls’
    By Press Association, 27 June 2014 http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/scotland-may-need-border-controls-1.443415

  33. Ireland and the UK are part of the “Common Travel Area” and people travel freely within it without the need for a passport. I’ve no reason to doubt that an independent Scotland would be part of it. Why, O why does Milliband talk BS like this?

  34. The last I heard, the Scottish Government after the Yes Vote and thus the government post the 2016 Scottish Parliament elections, which in all probabilty will be majority SNP, were committed to the existing Common Travel Area (CTA) currently existing within the British Isles, including the largest island, Ireland, and smaller ones such as the Isle of Man, external controls all remaining the same. It is irresponsible for the No parties – Labour-Tory-LibDem – to initiate scares such as this latest nonsense. They are saying one thing in Scotland, where they have no hope now or in the future of ever governing again, thankfully, and saying another in England, where sadly for my brothers and sisters there and elsewhere in the remaining parts of the UK, one or another or a combination of this ultra-right troika will govern for the forseeable future until they can mothball Westminster and march its indignant malignants, the troughers and war criminals off to face the collective justice that must go with collective responsibility for their actions.

    There is no advantage and many disadvantages in residual-UK scrapping the CTA after Scotland’s independence, therefore it won’t happen and if any equivalent system were introduced it would be in the interests of all parties that their is little or no change, those involved wouldn’t be just Scotland and London alone (if disappointingly Westminster were still governing all of England by then), but representatives, from Wales, from Ireland, from many political and geographic entities, the remnant Westminster zombie government, bypassed and impotent, would be in a minority at plenipotentiary level and their ‘lockdown’ views would not be shared by the people at large throughout the British Isles, resisted and impossible to implement. As to your granny and sister’s husbands in-laws being ‘foreign’, how will they cope with the implicit backwardness and skittishness or the shame and distress such pejoratives from repulsive British Nationalists would cause them, they might ‘go native’ and start eating one other! We’ll all still be British, all still be Europeans, no one would suggest for example that the people of France conjoined by geography to the European continent are any less European because they partly or wholly self-identify as French.

    Take heart Miliband and Cameron (Clegg and his party already a footnote) will, neither of them, be around much longer; in Scotland they’ll be a distant bad memory, yesterday’s Nobodies, sooner than later, as soon as September 17th dawns this year, but now the prospect looms they’ll be gone from all our lives even before then. Whatever they say now, negotiations between independent Scotland’s elected representatives, between the referendum this year and the next Scottish Parliament elections in 2016, will be with whatever sharks replace them, the dream team Boris Johnson and Son of the manse, the man of the people whizz-kid bankster/accountant from leafy Bishopton, representing the poverty hotpsot of Paisley South once held by the suicided Gordon Macmaster with majorities over 20,000, but now held by Alexander by the skin of his teeth, a few thousand mugs.

  35. Resident Dissident

    27 Jun, 2014 - 8:57 pm

    Of course Canspeccy’s might find it more difficult to justify separation when we are all pretty much the same genetically

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/05/science/05cnd-brits.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

  36. Genocide is the mass slaughter

    Bollocks again.

    The crime of the Reich in wantonly and deliberately wiping out whole peoples is not utterly new in the world. It is only new in the civilized world as we have come to think of it. It is so new in the traditions of civilized man that he has no name for it.

    It is for this reason that I (Raphael Lemkin) took the liberty of inventing the word, “genocide. … …As Von Rundstedt has suggested the term does not necessarily signify mass killings although it may mean that. … More often it refers to a coordinated plan aimed at destruction of the essential foundations of the life of national groups so that these groups wither and die like plants that have suffered a blight …

  37. CanSpeccy

    Genocide has been the norm in Iraq under Nuri Maliki for the last seven years. More petro genocide sponsored by NATO and Saudis in revenge at the hands of ISIS taking place as we speak. http://www.voltairenet.org/article184382.html

    The Sunni residents of Syria or Baghdad have always tolerated ethnic and sectarian pluralism. Or as the Kurdish tell me, Microwave radiation from phone masts is not dangerous, being hung upside down, beaten and electrocuted by Arab dictators is dangerous.

    Genocide is what happens when the Western petro-neo-cons step in.

  38. CanSpeccy, you only forgot that the majority of today’s Englishmen/women have very little in common with “indigenous people”. Back to history classes? Or you rather prefer genetic anthropology?

  39. What a very unpleasant and personal comment there from Anon.

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/06/miliband-plays-racist-card/#comment-463327

  40. CanSpeccy

    Gonads! It’s the same word in the whole of Indo-European civilisation from London to Lahore. If your ancestors hadn’t had wanderlust, you wouldn’t even have been born.

  41. So if a recent immigrant living and working in Scotland say with their family or a friend wished to visit England’s say or Wales’ or Ireland’s many tourist attractions and fine scenery, Miliband’s not having it. What an idiot, I think he’s crying for help: “someone please topple me, oh why have you forsaken me St. Tony of Blair?”

    Is there any Labour Party left.

  42. Of course Canspeccy’s might find it more difficult to justify separation when we are all pretty much the same genetically

    John Buchan, when at Oxford, was among Scotch students forming a Hibernian Society. Some English students were prompted by this to form a society for Anglos. However, on investigation they were unable to find anyone whose ancestry was not in some degree contaminated by Scottish blood, so they had to give up on the idea.

    To the Romans, the people of Britain were all Picts or Picti, painted people. Later the Romans referred to the English by their tribal names, but as they never conquered Scotland the people there continued to be known to the Romans as Picts. Hence, the widespread misconception that the Scots were a totally different breed to the English.

    In fact, there are racial differences, North Eastern Scotland, for example, still being occupied by fair-haired blue-eyed Vikings like those who settled Iceland, whereas the Western Isles are mostly inhabited by Celts closely related to the Irish while the lowlands are dominated by Anglos, people with names such as Bissett, Boyle, Colville, Corbett, Gifford, Hay, Kinnear and Fraser …

    Personally, I’m against Scottish separation because it will weaken both England and Scotland and reduce them to greater subservience to the undemocratic EU and NATO (to which Scotland will certainly have to belong).

    But I recognize the democratic right of the Scotch to separate and also of the democratic right of the English to keep out of England anyone they want to keep out, whether from Scotland or anywhere else.

  43. CanSpeccy, you only forgot that the majority of today’s Englishmen/women have very little in common with “indigenous people”

    Ha! The voice of the true settler. The English most of whom could by genome analysis trace their descent from those inhabiting England for thousands of years, are just crap suitable for immediate genocide, apparently.

  44. “Ed Miliband: Labour will close the land border with independent Scotland lest black people and other foreigners get in.”

    Craig, you must surely know that that’s a straightforward lie. Why do you post such racist nonsense?

  45. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    27 Jun, 2014 - 9:24 pm

    “In legal and political contexts, then, “indigenous” has to be understood as a complex term that is conditional on current circumstance, not as an absolute and unchanging descriptor for a state of being. It specifically recognises that a people or tribe has become marginalised within the dominant society thanks to a history of conquest, colonisation, and/or absorption into a nation state. As the sociologist and anthropologist Mathias Guenther puts it: “Indigenous is a term applied to people – and by the people to themselves – who are engaged in an often desperate struggle for political rights, for land, for a place and space within a modern nation’s economy and society.” This is why there is frequently a dual emphasis on a group’s describing itself as indigenous, and its acceptance as such by other indigenous groups”

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/dec/20/indigenous-britons-far-right

    I guess some feel the word ‘indigenous’ is synonymous with ‘I’ve got mine so screw you”.

  46. A state having border controls on it’s border?

    Who’d have thought of it?

    Whatever next?

    How racist.

  47. It’s the same word in the whole of Indo-European civilisation from London to Lahore.

    Guano to that.

    Try learning at least a little bit whereof you speak. There is no Indo-European civilization from London to Lahore.

    Try Samuel P. Huntington, the Clash of Civilizations, for example. You don`t have to accept the political ideology of the author to understand that the peoples of the world are of many civilizations. Aryan Shiite Muslim in Iran, Aryan Hindu in India, Aryan Christian-derived in England.

    Civilizations are not defined simply by predominant religious tradition but the religious tradition strongly influences culture and civilization. If you doubt that read Francis Fukuyama, the Origins of the Political Order, before making fatuous assertions about the universality of human culture.

    Of course the universalization of America`s crap culture is the objective of the New World Ordure of which Craig Murray is a staunch advocate. Hence his refusal to address the issue of genocide by mass migration and multiculturalism.

  48. jock wishart

    27 Jun, 2014 - 9:33 pm

    Scotland has an emigration problem not an immigration problem. In an independent Scotland we, the people of Scotland will fix that.

  49. A volcanic eruption in Iceland’s Hekla volcano could create a disaster for Scotland like the Laki one in 1783.

    All you would need is something to trigger the eruption of the magna, and Scotland would have a food crisis within months – what UK volcanologists are already planning for.

  50. Excuse the typo -meant magma.

  51. “Craig, you must surely know that that’s a straightforward lie. Why do you post such racist nonsense?”

    Because he’s a rabid fanatical Nationalist.

    As I see it either Scotland would have to agree a common immigration policy or people travelling from Scotland to Britain would have to answer questions like “what is the purpose of your visit?” and “how long do you intend to stay?”.

  52. Then, of course, the eruption could create tsunamis – like what the deadly earthquake/eruption which occurred off Aceh, right after Xmas 2004.

  53. Hey Fred. Scotland to Britain? Please explain

  54. “Scotland has an emigration problem not an immigration problem. In an independent Scotland we, the people of Scotland will fix that.”

    Yes, we’ll keep them Jakies at Waverlie not Victoria.

  55. YouKnowMyName

    27 Jun, 2014 - 10:11 pm

    1) I agree with Miliband that there will be an Anglo-immigration problem with New Scotland. There’ll be long queues to get in, but this will eventually be solved with the secession of Northumbria/Yorkshire and the other northern counties over the next fifty years.

    2) Btw the Commission is having quiet words with Helvetia over Schengen, something will be mutually worked-out. COM works on a slightly different time-frame to national governments.

    3) Did anyone in the UK notice that the Austrian high-court has confirmed the EC Court of Justice ruling that the Farr/Cheltenham sponsored ‘spooks charter’ Data Retention Directive is invalid, you’ll hear about it when the judgement is published!

  56. The covert trigger would be if and when the polls show the Yes vote taking the lead.

  57. “Hey Fred. Scotland to Britain? Please explain”

    What’s to explain?

  58. “Scotland has an emigration problem not an immigration problem. In an independent Scotland we, the people of Scotland will fix that.”

    The way the German Democratic Republic did, Jock Wishart?

  59. Craig, please don’t censor Trowbridge’s comments. Apart from you, he is the only person who has survived working in the state apparatus and survived to inform us of what evil lies within the great, evil machine. Those death-ray earthquake lasers really are scary. And without him blowing his own whistle, which is a remarkable feat in itself, we would know nothing of this matter.

    WRT porous Scottish borders, Oz has a bit of a problem with NZ being fairly liberal with some of its policies. As a result, it is considered the backdoor to Oz – so to speak (and joke).

    Don’t be surprised to find illicit whisky stills being set up on the Scots side of the border and moonshiners running crates of the Fake McCoy by specially outfitted vehicles across state lines with angry cops in hot pursuit. It might sound all glamorous and what, but that cheap liquor really does burn in the back of your throat.

  60. Theresa May has already said she will build borders.

    As usual, slightly lagging behind, but none the less, eventually getting there, Labour has adopted the same policy.

    I think that Ireland, and certainly Jersey and Guernsey (not in the EU) have different immigration/work permit criteria from England and the UK.

    Why would it matter then, that iScotland did?

    After all, if you haven’t got a National Insurance Number from the rUK the authorities will be able to root you out sharpish.

    I reckon we are far more likely to have a problem the other way as people escape the ever more authoritarian right wing UK governments almost certainly out of the EU.

  61. Quite right too. There is nothing racist about that policy.
    And as for racism – you clearly can’t see the plank in your own eye when you keep referring the English as ‘Little Englanders’.

  62. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    27 Jun, 2014 - 11:03 pm

    rac·ism

    ˈrāˌsizəm/
    noun

    the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

    =============

    big·ot·ry
    ˈbigətrē/
    noun
    bigoted attitudes; intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

    =============================================

    The difference between the almost right word & the right word is really a large matter–it’s the difference between the lightning bug and the lightning.

    -Mark Twain-

  63. I second Jemand’s request that Trowbridge is not censored. The lone nutter accusation should not be used to repress alternative narratives.

  64. Jack Fletcher

    27 Jun, 2014 - 11:35 pm

    The Scotland vote appears to me to be emotional. The intellectual argument is less persuasive. I think a ‘no’ vote is more likely. Because people have a habit of fearing change and not understanding the intellectual rationale. Oil, euro and EU entry are facades for a real national choice. Scotland can be brave, proud and thistley as ever. Within or outside.

  65. Hector (7 Jun, 2014 – 10:17 pm)

    The way the German Democratic Republic did, Jock Wishart?

    No-one would dare suggest the East German people were in favour of the Berlin Wall, they’d be laughed out the door, likewise Miliband speaks only for the Westminster autocrats, not for England or even for constituents of whatever safe seat he was parachuted into, rather like Blair in Sedgefield. The better as far more exact parallel would be with the GDR government and with Westminster, the idea for the Berlin Wall came from there, on instructions from their Russian bosses, and likewise if Miliband has not had some sort of brainstorm, this border idea scare story is not entirely the product of his own limited mind, but that of his mentors and bosses. I have a faint memory too of Labour Party policy, pre-Blair and Brown being decided at their annual conferences, not concocted on the hoof by a broken-down leader like Miliband talking out of turn and out his backside. Such a threat whilst being impractical and barking mad, could only imperfectly keep inmates of r-UK asylum from emigrating northwards, it’s intention then being to keep England’s subject peons in, not Scot’s citizens out. Absent of transformative progressive change in its political organisation residual-UK looks to become a dangerous unstable failed state, fascist by every measure and an unpleasant place in which to live -conditions outside the hallowed south-east, places already of no use or interest to Westminster, other than for what they can wring out of its people and resources to soothe the throbbing sore that is the Great Wen in emollient looted wealth, can only get worse and perhaps a refugee crisis – with economic and political outcasts, choosing to celebrate the joy that life once was, afresh in Scotland for however long it takes, till Westminster is defeated and defunct and England competently, honestly governed and a far nicer place to live again if poor or different – is not beyond the bounds of reasoned conjecture. We’ll just, us Scots, go out with pickaxes and wire-cutters and set England free, tearing down Miliband’s ghetto walls, quicker than he or his team of kapos could build it.

  66. Oh dear, borders. The great wall of Scotland and China were built to keep aliens out. I’ve never seen a grey-necked phalarope but borders are meaningless to it. Alcatraz too. There will always be the birds. Man has so much faith in his (and her) own importance borders are built to keep other humans at bay. Otters and badgers and other creatures need to find a way through these man-made obstacles and they usually do. It’s annoying though for those of us with long noses.

  67. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    28 Jun, 2014 - 12:08 am

    150,000 unattended children to cross the Rio Grande over the next year. It’s catastrophic poverty and repressive governments that drive refugees and immigrants to brave a foreign culture. It’s not like they have a real choice.

  68. Milliband couldn’t care less how many black Scotchmen are driven over the border to England by racists Scots who fail to understand that blackness is a social construct.

    Only a few months ago, Milliband was lauding English Nationalism as manifest, so he claimed, in an English love of foreign invasion, occupation, rape and pillage.

    Milliband’s racism consists in a genocidal contempt for the English, the traitorous attitude one might expect from the son of a Commie illegal immigrant.

  69. “Oh dear, borders. The great wall of Scotland and China were built to keep aliens out.”

    It’s crazy, isn’t it John? Aliens have spacecraft that are able to fly over any wall, even Hadrian’s. But the people of those times couldn’t be expected to know what we know today.

    Another “unknown unknown” (as a great American military strategist once put it) is the fact that Hadrian’s wall was actually built to keep out rabid ponies that would roam the grasslands of Scotland attacking in packs much like wolves do. Many a Roman soldier was savaged by ponies in the pre-wall days. Later, it found service keeping out drunken Scots looking to rape English women on their (the Scots) way to work and as a path home when darkness fell upon the meadows and all they had were their hands to feel their way.

    But I don’t think it could effectively serve to keep out illegal immigrants. With carefully positioned ramps and high powered American muscle cars, you could drive over the wall with half a dozen Mexicans in the trunk who would be released and blend into the local population like chameleons in a fruit salad.

  70. The lone nutter hypothesis is falling apart.

  71. As far as I could understand Trowbridge (and apologies if I am wrong) he was claiming that the tsunammi was an imperialist plot. That strikes me as green lizard territory. The problem is that hosting such stuff on a free speech basis is used to denigrate more rational anti-establishment thought.

  72. Hell, knock yourselves out, build yourselves a great big Zionazi wall. Keeps the aristocratic English pedophiles away from our youngsters.

  73. ‘There are huge council flat estates which used to be disaster areas in Nechells which have basically been civilised by the calming force of Somalian Islam.’

    The things you read in the comments here- to see the enthusiastic practitioners of FGM described as a ‘civilising’ force really takes the biscuit.

  74. You are wrong, Craig,and I accept your apology.

    To lump together all critics of current official propaganda as simply “green lizard territory,” is to miss the forest for the trees, as they say.

    You have obviously not read my article about the comings and goings of the special attack submarine, the USS Jimmy Carter, the most well researched piece I have ever done, blindly dismissing it as if I am a follower Of Joe Vialls.

    You do not had to your reputation by engaging in such stupid, insulting behavior.

  75. ‘There is no advantage and many disadvantages in residual-UK scrapping the CTA after Scotland’s independence, therefore it won’t happen.’

    An independent Scotland, if it (as seems likely) cannot obtain its own Schengen opt out, would be implicitly opting out of the CTA by virtue of its new relationship with the rest of the EU. Arrangements between Residual UK and the Republic would be unaffected and the CTA would only be ‘scrapped’ if the Republic followed the Scots into Schengen, an unlikely scenario.

  76. “We’ll just, us Scots, go out with pickaxes and wire-cutters and set England free…” whether they like it or not, no doubt, Tony M.

  77. Hector the Hectoring Heckler wrote:

    “whether they like it or not, no doubt, Tony M.”

    Yes absolutely, but it’ll happen both inside and outside the pale, why should the people of Northumberland or Cumbria miss out, if nothing else it’ll be free building materials, there for the taking, it happended to Hadrian’s wall, it would happen to Emperor Miliband’s pipe-dream too, call it paying homage in bricks and steel wire, with free delivery; we could even export it furter south again, for flood protection, land reclamation, HS2 or whatever. What England really needs at this time is another costly and pointless vanity project and folly, it’ll really do the economy a pound of good, Keynesiasm however argued public expenditure for worthwhile productive uses, not senseless waste of materials and human energy on vast monuments to feeble politicians prejudices.

    With few exceptions historic ghettoes were constructed from the inside out, those inside’s community ‘leaders’ wishing to emphasise negligible differences or create them where none existed, averting the catastrophe of assimilation and appreciably strengthening their minute control over those the lives of those trapped inside with them and their delusions.

    Locking down England against the foreign world, is a measure directed against its own inhabitants freedom, the impregnable island strongholds advantages used against its own people. Walls might make a temporary prison for bodies but minds can break free at will.

  78. Hector the Hectoring Heckler wrote:

    “whether they like it or not, no doubt, Tony M.”

    Yes absolutely, but it’ll happen both inside and outside the pale, why should the people of Northumberland or Cumbria miss out, if nothing else it’ll be free building materials, there for the taking, it happended to Hadrian’s wall, it would happen to Emperor Miliband’s pipe-dream too, call it paying homage in bricks and steel wire, with free delivery; we could even export it furter south again, for flood protection, land reclamation, HS2 or whatever. What England really needs at this time is another costly and pointless vanity project and folly, it’ll really do the economy a pound of good, Keynesianism however argued public expenditure for worthwhile productive uses, not senseless waste of materials and human energy on vast monuments to feeble politicians prejudices.

    With few exceptions historic ghettoes were constructed from the inside out, those inside’s community ‘leaders’ wishing to emphasise negligible differences or create them where none existed, averting the catastrophe of assimilation and appreciably strengthening their minute control over those the lives of those trapped inside with them and their delusions.

    Locking down England against the foreign world, is a measure directed against its own inhabitants freedom, the impregnable island strongholds advantages used against its own people. Walls might make a temporary prison for bodies but minds can break free at will.

  79. jock wishart

    28 Jun, 2014 - 7:20 am

    Hector. In an independent Scotland. We will elect a government with policies that will retain the population and attract talented hardworking individuals from other countries. Just one advantage of being our own boss.

  80. Andrew Leslie

    28 Jun, 2014 - 8:02 am

    Fred, the staion in Edinburgh is called “Waverley”

  81. Fred’s knowledge of Scotland is piss poor considering he says he’s from up North. Still around Dounreay is it Fred ? Or were you just bottom of that small class at spelling ?
    And Scotland is still in Britain Fred.Britain is the Island.So Scotland to Britain ? What do you mean by that ? And Scotland will still be part of Britain after we vote YES.

  82. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    28 Jun, 2014 - 9:01 am

    “An independent Scotland, if it (as seems likely) cannot obtain its own Schengen opt out, would be implicitly opting out of the CTA by virtue of its new relationship with the rest of the EU. Arrangements between Residual UK and the Republic would be unaffected and the CTA would only be ‘scrapped’ if the Republic followed the Scots into Schengen, an unlikely scenario.”
    _______________________

    This is exactly the position and sums up matters in a nutshell. OldMark knows what he’s talking about on this one.

    The only thing one could add, for extra clarification, is that the CTA can only be because both the UK and Ireland have opt-outs from Schengen. Or, to put it more whimsically, a Member State cannot belong to two different common travel areas at the same time..

  83. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    28 Jun, 2014 - 9:07 am

    Mary!

    There’s some quite interesting and vigorous discussion going on here this morning.

    Please feel free to join in, I’m sure you have some views on the subject (even though it’s not Israel/Palestine or the turpitude of the Westminster govt).

    Even a relevant cut-and-paste would do!

  84. CanSpeccy
    I accept there may be a slight temperature difference between London and Lahore, but even that is closing. If they use the same linguistic root ‘goon’ they are not necessarily of the same ethnic origin because language is learned, but they are of the same civilisation.

    My Pakistani mate is nearly white under his hat and nearly black on the rest of his face. Religions also vary across the 6000 miles but the Church of England might possibly be inferior to the indigenous brand of Lahore.

    You have got a serious psychological problem if you want to justify racism. I have many bones to pick with people about moral and attitude issues but Race issues is for Zionists and La La Land.

  85. Also, dividing the UK into ethnic groups is for Zionists and La La Land. Don’t tell the Scots I said that. If they want to be divided and ruled, I hear what they say but I’m noo comin oot. They might just as well go out and buy a new car if they want to solve their emotional and spiritual problems.

  86. The notably common themes in myths and ritual the world over make a convincing case that we all share a universal root culture.

  87. “150,000 unattended children to cross the Rio Grande over the next year”

    If true that is an extraordinary statistic. Where are they coming from and where are their parents? Central America isn’t that impoverished or oppressive. Sounds like something else is going on here.

  88. A myth has been built up that is quite counter-factual that the Romans never expanded their empire into Scotland and settled there, that they built Hadrians Wall to keep the Scots and English apart and/or to keep the Scots out. The Romans built two walls, Hadrians Wall and the Antonine Wall. Neither were to keep the Scots and the English apart. Their purpose was to “kettle” the borderers who inhabited the land in-between. The Borders were then and since well known for their antisocial, murderous and thieving ways. To be fair to the Borders they have modified their behaviour and been civilised by time although they still show a worryingly deviant disposition by having a tendency to vote Liberal.

  89. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    28 Jun, 2014 - 2:24 pm

  90. “Fred’s knowledge of Scotland is piss poor considering he says he’s from up North. Still around Dounreay is it Fred ? Or were you just bottom of that small class at spelling ?
    And Scotland is still in Britain Fred.Britain is the Island.So Scotland to Britain ? What do you mean by that ? And Scotland will still be part of Britain after we vote YES.”

    Geographically Scotland would be in Britain but politically it wouldn’t be British territory.

    Yes, I actually do live in Scotland.

  91. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    28 Jun, 2014 - 2:44 pm

    “Drought is becoming a fixture in the parched landscape, due to a drying trend of the Mediterranean and Middle East region fueled by global warming. The last major drought in this region (2006-2010) finished only a few years ago. When taken in combination with other complex drivers, increasing temperatures and drying of agricultural land is widely seen as assisting in the destabilization of Syria under the regime of Bashar al-Assad. Before civil war broke out there, farmers abandoned their desiccated fields and flooded the cities with protests. A series of U.N. reports released earlier this year found that global warming is already destabilizing nation states around the world, and Syria has been no exception.”

    http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2014/06/isis_water_scarcity_is_climate_change_destabilizing_iraq.single.html

    Scotland still pretty wet, but water is the new Oil.

  92. Something funny is going on with the fast, special operations attack submarine, the USS Connecticut.

    Its Executive Officer Lt. Commander Brett Sterneckert was removed from command in March just when a dramatic drop in opposition to Scottish independence was recorded – what indicated that the Yes vote would win in September if it even continued at a slower rate of change.

    Sterneckert was relieved because of some loss of confidence in the long-time veteran which the NCIS is investigating, and seems to be the misuse of secret information.

    And the USS Connecticut is like the other Sea Wolf class subs, like the USS Jimmy Carter, and could trigger an earthquake which would result in a volcanic eruption, like at Helka where one is also expected. It also has the ability to go under the Arctic Icepack from its base in Bremerton, Washington.

    Reminds me of the trouble the CNO had with the Carter’s crew before it made its unprecedented voyage to the South Pacific from New London in the fall of 2004.

  93. I don’t think that is correct entirely Jake, the Antonine Wall was built much earlier, and was insubstantial, but did have the advantage that it straddled the narrowest part of the country, and used the rivers Clyde and Forth as part of its defensive line, this was then abandoned incomplete, a cheap effort being not much more than a rampart of turf-topped earth in large part. Retreating south they later began Hadrian’s Wall, which again though more substantial was never fully complete, before the entire Roman Empire itself was in retreat and falling. It certainly was porous and exchanges of people and goods took place quite freely, taxing the through trade with negligible duties. I doubt the Borderers on either side, and bear in mind Hadrian’s wall is a few miles south of the present day border were ever intrinsically querulous, it’s probable Roman influence and presence, trade and the whole civilian economy that taps into a military presence and a great construction project, increased the overall population along the fortifications and at the same time stressed resources of food and land, cattle, housing and so on. Which lead to conflict, competition for these resources, conflict as often internecine as cross border and which broke out sporadically through the centuries until it became just a few warring landowner families and those serfs who ‘owed’ them service, private armies and generations of reciprocal acts of tit-for-tat revenge, the original cause of the enmities long lost in time, until many were removed, many known belligerents amongst them, with offers of land etc. in Northern Ireland and emigration to the New World, which effectively pacified the border, largely by reduction of pressures on local resources and straightforward depopulation. Funny about the Liberal and Tory thing though, but they’re not half as contrary as Dumfries and Galloway who have the only living Scotch Tory MP in Chapelcross.

  94. Work on Hadrian’s Wall was started around 120 and completed in six years. In 142 the emperor Antoninus pushed the border north and built the Antonine Wall. Hadrian’s Wall was abandoned and for 20 years the Antonine Wall was the northern boundary of the empire until that too was abandoned and Hadrian’s Wall re-occupied. It remained garrisoned until the Romans left in 410.

  95. You may be correct Kempe, the chronology I recalled, which must be faulty, had the Antonine Wall built earlier then abandoned; 20 years between them is not so much and there must have more or less been parallel construction efforts, Hadrian’s wall was forever work-in-progress. It seems inconsistent that the less substantial Antonine Wall could take a claimed twelve years to build, whilst the far longer and more elaborate and laboured Hadrian’s Wall apparently took only six; no doubt even contemporaneous Imperial historians got their walls mixed up at times. The Antonine Wall being more or less abandoned entirely from 162AD till 208AD, and then re-fortified, it follows there were retreats back to Hadrian’s Wall as well as returns to the Antonine line again. When the Antonine Wall was the true frontier, briefly from its completion in 154AD till its 162AD abandonment, Hadrian’s Wall would have been less substantial than it later became, with Hadrian’s Wall undergoing major reconstructions into its final form up until about 200AD.

    My earlier reply to Jake was more intended to address the brutal slight made in jest about the Border family clans, and understand just why the Borders were for a time so fractious, rather than pin down exactly events almost two millenia ago, about which much of the record is guesswork and relies on historical documents and records or later rewrites of them, hagiographies and so on, which rather like the popular press of today were imperfect.
    An interesting diversion however, but of no great relevance to our world today.

  96. I kind of agree with CanSpeccy, though immigration has been going on for many thousands of years, since even before we worked out how to build boats. They only let my family in around 500 years ago, cos we were good at fishing, and I guess we were polite, even though we didn’t speak a word of English. I guess we must have really annoyed the French….

    Avez-vous faim … voulez-vous certains de nos poissons?

  97. Trowbridge H. Ford,

    I understand the graphometer signature of an earthquake, is completely different from a nuclear explosion…and some people who really do know about these things…used to post information about this…on the internet…and you could find it if you knew how to use a search engine…

    These things seem to follow my family around…My niece got a really big one in Japan…then she moved to the USA…and decided she had to come back to Europe with her East German Husband…because The US Government was mad…and it was rubbing off…

    Personally…I said don’t be bloody silly…you only had a Tsunami…at Christmas…you are entirely unlikely to get another one at Easter…so I said goodnight..and went back to sleep…They woke us up again…I said well what do you want me to do…climb up a coconut tree…I still didn’t believe it…until got home..and their really had been a massive undersea earthquake…enormous on the richter scale…but it didn’t set off a Tsunami..like 3 months before.

    Tony

  98. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    28 Jun, 2014 - 6:11 pm

    In other news…….

    I’ve posted on the pelican problem wrt to chicks this year, now it’s seal pups.

    Emaciation is also a symptom of radiation poisoning. A friend in Maui says, in spite of the apparent overreaction from some quarters, we’re not reacting enough.

    http://www.malibutimes.com/news/article_48007dce-9970-11e2-ad51-001a4bcf887a.html

    Chronic exposure to even low levels increase birth defects. Background radiation added to human made has no good purpose.

    “The rate of babies being born without a brain in our part of the state is eight times the national average – 23 cases in just three years.”

    http://www.keprtv.com/Tri-Cities-hotbed-for-neural-tube-defects–259335091.html

  99. That’s awful Ben. Wishing to learn more I tried the KEPRtv link but it did not work. Could you check.

    ~~

    An item on our news just now about making the Golden Gate bridge suicide proof with a new net barrier. Are there that many suicides?
    http://news.sky.com/story/1290929/golden-gate-bridge-suicide-net-plan-welcomed

  100. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    28 Jun, 2014 - 10:43 pm

  101. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    28 Jun, 2014 - 10:44 pm

    it works now, Mary

  102. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    28 Jun, 2014 - 10:50 pm

    Mary;

    This hawaiian is quite good at various topics. Strangely, he has little on the cesium in water and aquatic life.

    http://islandbreath.blogspot.ru/

  103. Ooh er Missus!

    Policy Chief Hits Out At Miliband’s Leadership
    Labour’s policy chief slams the party’s leadership for ignoring major reforms in favour of “cynical nuggets of policy”.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1291420/policy-chief-hits-out-at-milibands-leadership

  104. Thanks for those links Ben. Bad news eh? I will ask a medical friend for thoughts on the neural tube defects. One of my friends has a daughter with spina bifida.She had dozens of orthopaedic operations as a child and with a brilliant brain and now married, she leads a full life in her wheelchair.

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