Gaza Conundrum

by craig on July 15, 2014 5:51 pm in Uncategorized

Egypt’s bloodthirsty military dictatorship, installed with CIA and Israeli support, offers to mediate. What’s not to trust?

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178 Comments

  1. LIVE UPDATES: Israeli man killed by shrapnel near Gaza border
    Security cabinet to meet at 9 P.M.; Lieberman: IDF must end operation with control of entire Gaza Strip; Netanyahu orders IDF strikes on Gaza after rocket fire; Two rockets intercepted over Tel Aviv; Israel accepts Egyptian cease-fire proposal, Hamas still debating.

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.605161

  2. The Egyptian dictatorship – installed by the Americans, at the expense of the democratically elected, Muslim Brotherhood’s Mor -, is just trying to get rid of Hamas, opening the door to Gaza while the Israelis are pounding it in the hope that its leadership will simply disappear.

    Little wonder with such totalitarian moves against it that it has no interest in a ceasefire to innate its demise.

    The phony war will continue until one side changes its strategy.

  3. خاله ووسو

    15 Jul, 2014 - 6:20 pm

    You might as well say:
    UK’s bloodthirsty military dictatorship, installed with CIA and Israeli support
    France’s bloodthirsty military dictatorship, installed with CIA and Israeli support

    Let’s take the ‘bloodthirsty military dictatorship, installed with CIA and Israeli support’ bit as read.

    Egypt was subjected to the same UKUSIS false-flag sniper assaults as Syria in an attempt to kindle a civil war like Syria’s. The miltitary government is better for Egypt than the false-flag Islamic Jihad ricocheting round Syria and Iraq and indiscriminately murdering very large numbers of civilians.

    Sorry UK deception and great game policy has failed for you this time Craig. Gaza is fortunate to have a big brother to lean on at all.

  4. The Sissi puppet follows orders from Tel Aviv and pushes for a ceasefire…. which is certainly not to Gaza’s advantage.
    I do believe that Israel has been causing mayhem for weeks due to the kidnapping of 3 teenagers which killed over 20 Palestinians, injured god knows how many and imprisoned countless others, and that was in the West Bank before they started on Gaza.
    How many ceasefire’s have Israel broken in the past ? When did they ever keep their word ?
    Gaza asked for UN peacekeepers. What happened to that request ?
    Liebemann was a bouncer from Moldavia and no soldier. Netanyahu knows that a ground assault will mean as near to a fair fight as the Palestinians will get and that is no advantage to the fascists of the IDF.
    If Israel kill 1000 with their American bombs it will still be less than Cast lead and they’ll say they showed restraint.

  5. The Israelis have now murdered Sheik Ahmed Yassim, the spiritual leader of Hamas, showing they are set on getting rid of it, one way or another, and the ceasefire bit is just a tactical ploy in a campaign of assassination.

    It’s just a showdown between the jihadists.

    The Israelis are counting on the Gazans settling for force peace at any cost.

  6. Harry Fear’s latest update for RT

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYmRukC_u-o

    Gaza human shields: Foreigners protect hospitals from IDF airstrikes

    Israel has resumed its military offensive against Gaza, just several hours after unilaterally agreeing to a ceasefire. The deescalation plan proposed by Egypt was initially supported by the Israeli government but rejected by Hamas militants, who continued firing rockets.Harry Fear visited a hospital in Gaza which continues working amid the strikes.

  7. ” Israelis have now murdered Sheik Ahmed Yassim ”

    This happened in 2004, ten years ago.

    Whatever you’re on Trowbridge can I have some?

  8. Meanwhile that noted Scottish unionist, Tony Blair, “Middle East peace envoy”, continues to rake in the millions.

  9. Actual sentence in the NYTimes: “The developments followed a relatively quiet night, in which the Israeli military bombed 25 sites in Gaza.”

    https://twitter.com/andEps/status/489040792804016128

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/16/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-strip.html?_r=0

  10. Your are right, Kempe, just checking to see if anyone reads my posts.

    Have looked for current Hamas leaders killed in the current onslaught, but have found none listed.

  11. “just checking to see if anyone reads my posts.”

    ROFLcopter

  12. A brilliant little gem, Craig.

  13. Glad it got you laughing, Dreollin. but it underlines that the Israelis have not killed many significant Hamas leaders in the past decade, showing that the Israelis are just killing Gazans by the hundreds in the hope that they will expel them or overthrow their regime – what the Anglo-Amercans are attempting by much more subtle disasters to get rid of those they hate.

  14. War on Want @WarOnWant · 27m
    Huge protest in #London against biased #BBC coverage of #Israel military assault on #Gaza pic.twitter.com/nhOAcfpIgG

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bsmo2KNIYAEZCP_.jpg:large

    Stop the War @STWuk · 11m
    Big demo tonight blockades BBC demanding #BBCTruth4Gaza instead of colluding in #Israel’s #Gaza war crimes pic.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsmsheMCEAAEHga.jpg:large

    On https://twitter.com/stwuk

  15. The Channel 4 News report was supposed to be ‘sympathetic’ to Gaza’s plight, so I was told. I will put a video up if it appears on their website. In the meantime:

    Tuesday 15 Jul 2014 Live from Gaza: Israel bombing continues after truce plan fails Channel 4 News Foreign Correspondent Jonathan Miller is reporting on the bombardment of Gaza from the ground, where Egypt’s attempt to broker a truce between authorities in Israel and Gaza has failed. Israel began bombing again on Tuesday afternoon, while Hamas said earlier that it had not been contacted over the plans. http://blogs.channel4.com/miller-on-foreign-affairs/live-gaza-bombing-continues-ceasefire/802

  16. @Trowbridge H. Ford

    “Glad it got you laughing, Dreollin. but it underlines that the Israelis have not …”

    You know perfectly well that’s not what I was laughing at. I quoted what I was laughing at.
    i.e. your attempt to say, “I was just testing you”.

  17. Israel has resumed ….

    Israel had earlier accepted….

    Israel says it launched Operation Protective Edge to stop militants firing rockets into Israel….

    Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said….

    The Israel Defense Forces said militants had fired 125 rockets into Israel on Tuesday….

    Timeline of attacks Source Israel Defence Forces…. – graphic

    Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev told the BBC….

    Middle East Quartet envoy Tony Blair said ….

    40 uses of the word ‘Israel’ in the report
    17 uses of the word ‘Hamas’ in the report
    3 uses of the word ‘militant’ in the report

    A few photos of wrecked buildings in Gaza and that’s the BBC’s version of events. Loaded.

    Gaza conflict: Israel restarts air strikes amid rocket fire
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28314604

  18. The Channel 4 News video is up now. Jonathan Miller reports.

    http://bcove.me/ousl659t

  19. “UPDATE: @nytimes deletes from its article the line on a “relatively quiet night” I called out, but doesn’t acknowledge why it was offensive.”

    https://twitter.com/andEps/status/489133827487711232

  20. Is Sisi ISIS?

    15 Jul, 2014 - 10:43 pm

    Looking at this evening’s news it is clearly Hamas (created by Israel) that are responsible for Israeli war crimes. If only Hamas (created by Israel) would call a ceasefire and end the poor Israelies existensial threat for good. Hamas (created by Israel) has been no better for the Palestinians than Israel (created by Rothschild = the world’s only trillionaires, and it’s funny you know next to nothing about them, isn’t it?)

  21. Young American Jew arrested for being Pro Palestine

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d68_1405456832

  22. “Israel (created by Rothschild = the world’s only trillionaires, and it’s funny you know next to nothing about them, isn’t it?)”

    But they know everything about you.

    By the way, what kind of a name is: Is Sisi ISIS? ?

    It’s not a palindrome. But it is a puzzle.

  23. Exexpat, I saw that video. The police did not handle him with care. But a brave young man.

  24. Gaza: Israeli commandos ‘running like chickens’

    Israel reports that 13 Naval Commandos landed on a beach in Northern Gaza to “take out” a Hamas long-range missile battery. Israel’s own reporting is that they suffered four wounded and that two Palestinians died in the attack.

    Clearly the oh so powerful uniformed zionist mercenaries are not used to fighting any real fighters in a hand to hand combat and are finding it tough going when they come across any fighters. After all shooting unarmed grannies, children, old men, babies and pregnant women and dropping bombs and firing shells and rockets from far are their speciality.

  25. iphone, ipad, imac, i sis, isis

    Those SIS are funny aren’t they?

    Anyone noticed similarities of the bokoharam flag and the isis flag?

    Seems caliphate is already going strong, today Iraq, Syria, and Nigeria tomorrow the world!!

  26. As Medialens points out

    “This BBC ‘Timeline of attacks’, supplied by Israel’s IDF, suggests rockets fired and Israeli strikes are comparable”

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28314604 (scroll down)

    ————

    But I was slightly cheered by watching Jon Stewart’s take on things

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmPJb6Mcu6g

    He may be a comedian but he has a lot of common sense.

  27. I did not attempt to say that i was testing posters on Israeli killing Hamas leaders, I said it, falsely, deliberately stating that it had just assassinated Sheik Ahmed Yassin , its spiritual leader, in the forlorn hope that posters would talk about their situation a decade later.

    They are in good shape, rejecting the unilateral ceasefire when they heard about it – what the Israelis adopted without even discussing it with them, much less adopting their pre.conditions for one, the release of its political prisoners, and opening access to Egypt.

    The Israelis continue to act as if officially Hamas simply does not exist.

  28. It is not that much US or Israel that are playing the cards in the Middle East. The Saudis and, recently, Qataris have been a tremendous (albeit invisible) force with well-defined interests that included fighting the reformist Islamic parties/movements across the region (i.e., the Muslim Brotherhood).

    I’d rather see the hand of the Saudis in the Egypt military takeover. CIA presumably has much less interest in what is going on there. I can’t comment on Israel, but its cooperation with the Saudis is well known.

  29. BrianFujisan

    16 Jul, 2014 - 1:51 am

    super kool Mandela video

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5TiUhhm7cQ

    Mary… i see you were over at Zen…i left a video there, you might be interested in

  30. Could it be that Israel only has about ten days supply
    of warheads for the Iron dome system, and now they are
    running short they want a ceasefire, before the Hamas
    rockets start doing any damage?

    More than a handful of casualties on the Israeli side would
    severely damage Bibi politically…

  31. “I said it, falsely, deliberately stating that it had just assassinated Sheik Ahmed Yassin , its spiritual leader, in the forlorn hope that posters would talk about their situation a decade later.”

    That’s not what you said, Trowbridge. You said you were

    “just checking to see if anyone reads my posts.”

    Now give it up, man.

  32. Development on Twitter

    Infosec guy asks

    “What happens when @twitter accepts payment to promote one side in a propaganda war?”

    and he attaches a promoted tweet from “PM of Israel”

    https://twitter.com/haroonmeer/status/489181441847459841

  33. Sisi is Jewish or a Crypto Jew if you wish. There’s an article on Veterans Today.

  34. The most cruel people are shelling/bombing a rehabilitation hospital.

    For immediate release: Gaza Friends/Israel attacks Gaza hospitals. Wed 16 July 2014 5.44am

    *International activists remain in Gaza hospital threatened by Israeli
    missiles *

    Last night, Israel’s army fired five warning missiles at El-Wafa geriatric
    hospital in Gaza City, Gaza. International volunteers now staying in the hospital in
    solidarity, have said they, “can hear missiles falling close by”.

    “The civilian population of Gaza is being bombed. We will stay with them in
    solidarity until the international community and our governments take
    action to stop Israel’s crimes against humanity.” States Swedish
    International Solidarity Movement (ISM) activist, Fred Ekblad.

    The volunteers are citizens of USA, Spain, Sweden, Venezuela, France, UK,
    Australia, and New Zealand. The first barrage of missiles hit the fourth
    floor of the hospital at 2:00AM.

    At approximately 19:00 a fifth missile hit the hospital. “Windows and doors
    were blown out, broken glass everywhere, damage to the stairs, there’s a
    big hole at the impact area and the wall is burnt,” reports Joe Catron, ISM
    activist, from the U.S.

    At around 20:00 Basman Alashi, executive director of the hospital, received
    an unidentified call from a person with a, ‘heavy Israeli accent’, asking
    if there were any injuries, whether there was any one in the top floor, and
    whether they were planning to evacuate the hospital.

    Alashi says the hospital will not be evacuated because there is nowhere to
    evacuate the patients to. “El-Wafa hospital serves the patients that need
    medical attention 24 hours a day. Including patients that can’t move, or
    people who need to be fed by tube. This hospital is the only one in Gaza
    specializing in the rehabilitation of people who need physical and
    occupational therapy. All our patients are over 60 years old, men and
    women. We don’t understand why the Israeli forces have fired five rockets
    at the hospital in the last 24 hours so far. We serve humanity.”

    *For more information contact:*

    +972597406401 Ally Cohen, ISM Media Office (English)

    +972592224699 Basman Alashi- executive director of El-Wafa hospital
    (English, Arabic)

    Internationals in the hospital:

    +972592224699 (ISM) Joseph Catron, USA (English)

    +972595594326 Manu Pineda, Spain (Spanish)

    +972595251720 Huda Julie Webb-Pullman, Australia and New Zealand (English)

    +972595209679 (ISM) Fred Ekblad, Sweden (Swedish/English)

    Brave people. We can only weep.

  35. Israel warns Gaza ahead of strikes
    Israel warns thousands of Palestinians in eastern and northern Gaza to leave their homes by Wednesday morning as it continues air strikes.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28320901

    The weather now –
    28 °C Scattered clouds.
    Feels Like: 29 °C
    Wind: 5 mph ↑ from Southwest
    Humidity: 55%

    The temperature is rising to 34C over the next fortnight.
    http://www.timeanddate.com/weather/gaza-strip/gaza/ext

    A hell created on earth. Smashed buildings. No water or electricity. Arid surroundings. Sheltering in schools. cf the Israeli lifestyle and living conditions esp in the settlements.

  36. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    16 Jul, 2014 - 8:34 am

    it has no interest in a ceasefire to innate its demise.
    (Trowbridge H)

    ‘Innate’ is an adjective, not a verb.
    ROFLcopter. ( (c) Dreoilin)

    The Israelis continue to act as if officially Hamas simply does not exist.
    Then what are they shooting at?

    OK, that’s flippant. Listening to the Israeli Labour leader on R4 this morning. Backed Netanyahu to the hilt: same arguments, and same strange failure to acknowledge that if you intentionally and arbitrarily target Hamas, Hamas starts shooting. I wasn’t expecting him to regret the destruction of a home for the disabled, a hospital director’s house and clinic, and numerous UNWRA facilities, of course.

    There’s a nuance here that seems to be getting missed. Netanyahu, just prior to the Egyptian proposal, was insisting that international pressure would not induce him to stop assaulting Gaza. Yet, come the proposal, it took much less time than usual for the Israelis to agree to a pause. Ergo, this was an Israeli proposal. I would guess that it was personally delivered, by the hand of Tony Blair, (who has spent longer in Israel lately than he normally spends anywhere on his travels, and who has not been recorded as ever talking to Hamas) to al-Sisi.

    What motivates al-Sisi? Primarily, the threat of withdrawal of US aid, which is wholly conditional on playing nicely with Israel. Secondarily, he’s got Islamists in Sinai, adjacent to Gaza. He really doesn’t want the two to join up. And thirdly, he’s a shit.

  37. Norman G. Finkelstein does not like to play the holocaust card but when criticised by a young German woman feels compelled to do.

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=673202166081794&set=vb.100001760506883&type=2&theater

  38. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    16 Jul, 2014 - 9:09 am

    Tony Blair, secure in the knowledge of another job well done, is at this moment over Western Greece, having left Tel Aviv earlier this morning. Didn’t even stop over to say goodbye to his good friend al-Sisi, with whom Blair, Price Waterhouse Cooper and Abu Dhabi have a mutually beneficial arrangement re. governance advice. (see my comments, passim)

  39. One of Israel’s prisoners. Can’t have anyone expressing thought or ideas as art.

    July 14, 2014
    Israel bars prominent Palestinian artist from traveling to N.Y. exhibit
    Palestinian artist Khaled Jarrar travels regularly to exhibit and discuss his art. This time, the Israeli army simply said no, you can’t go.

    http://972mag.com/israel-bars-prominent-palestinian-artist-from-traveling-to-n-y-exhibit/93586/

    The exhibition http://www.newmuseum.org/exhibitions/view/here-and-elsewhere

  40. Good for Miguel. He says it on our behalf.

    Email to BBC Middle East correspondent Kevin Connolly
    Posted by The Editors on July 16, 2014, 9:04 am

    From: Miguel Ramano
    Date:15/07/2014 4:34 PM (GMT+00:00)
    To: kevin.connolly@bbc.co.uk
    Subject: questions

    Mr Connolly trust this finds you well and safe. in a latest piece on the BBC website, the table below (under the section head Kevin Connolly analysis) as a comparison between what has been done so far by Israel and Gaza

    “Rockets fire from Gaza .. Gaza Targets hit by Israel” – source IDF. (my emphasis)

    A couple of things:

    · The source of the table is the IDF – which you seem to have accepted as an objective source of information.

    · The table which you are using seems to be suggesting an equality in military power here – what it doesn’t show/do is enlighten your readers/viewers on the military might that is the state of Israel (funded to the tune of $3bn plus further addition for research and development). Do you think it’s not important to highlight this?

    · The table also says Gaza targets hit by Israel – are you also going to show that one of these so called “target” was a charitable association? Using the IDF official account of ‘target’ is accepting their premise that the IDF is only accidentally killing civilians. Do you think you should be questioning the IDF account given that the number of civilians dead has now gone to 138, (36 children), according to a latest UN report.

    · The piece also mentioned, “The BBC’s Kevin Connolly said that Israel’s rapid acceptance of the Egyptian ceasefire proposal was a smart tactical move. If the deal had held, Israel would have been happy with the outcome, he says, because it has damaged stockpiles of weapons that Hamas will find difficult to replenish”.

    Now this could well have been a “smart tactical move” and “Israel would have been happy with the outcome” – but in terms of the outcome, you only mention the “damaged stockpiles of weapons”. How do you know “stockpiles of weapons” have been destroyed? Why not also mention that the outcome, has been the toll that the bombardment of Gaza has had on civilians (see latest UN report)

    · Also, perhaps not your editing – I see the BBC as always refer to the usual “Palestinian officials say at least xxx people have been killed …” – is the BBC suggesting that the “Palestinian Ministry of Health in Gaza” might be making this up?” – is this the BBC’s idea of balance?

    ==

    DC

    Link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28314604

  41. Why are the Palestinians abandoned? Why does no one nation or people –in the West– support the Palestinians? Where the trees from the Spring Revolutions, the crop from those flowering democracies? Why can’t they be allowed self-determination? Why does the Arab and the Persian allow themselves to be divided by the West? Why can’t the short bridge between Sunni and Shia be crossed? Education? Tribalism? The same old problems that have tried and tested solutions… why are they not resolved? Control. Nationalism. Short-sighted opportunistic political gains at the expense of a future as one. It is infuriating, mind-humbling insane.

  42. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    16 Jul, 2014 - 10:16 am

    WITNOF is Walking Eagle doing in Florence? Is it time for his hols? Make them long ones, please God.

  43. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    16 Jul, 2014 - 10:18 am

    Last time:

    http://theflorencenewspaper.com/new/tony-blair-sighted-in-florence/

    And he met Renzi in Kazakhstan this year. Birds of a feather evidently flocking.

  44. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    16 Jul, 2014 - 10:20 am

    Straight from Tel Aviv to Peretola. Just landed.

  45. Light

    I agree with you in all you say, except I am fed up hearing the West used as an excuse for the absolute disgusting venality and self-interest of Arabs and their culture. The truth is, that while Palestine is indeed treated very badly indeed by the West, the West nonetheless provides more support for Palestine – both financially and politically – than the entirely small-minded and self-interested Arab nations do. And I do not accept a distinction between the people and their leaderships there – in no Arab country do the people care enough about the Palestinians to exert pressure on their leaderships.

    There are far more westerners like us than Arabs taking to social media to protest about Gaza. And far more Christians than Muslims.

  46. That the Arabs are silent and do not help save their alms is the Conundrum. The Arab Gulf nations resemble the robber Barons of the middle ages and self preservation and more wealth is their goal.They don’t give a sh** about Palestine.
    Ghadafi was a pan Arabic leader that tried in vain to unite all Arabs and wanted a free Palestinian people.
    Any friend of Tony’s is collateral damage.

  47. Now that the IDF has killed over 200 Palestinians in the hope of making them overthrow Hamas in Gaza, it has finally resorted to attempting to kill some of its leaders by blowing up some of their houses after warning neighbors of what was planned.

    Of course, by now they all know what is afoot, and have gone into hiding.

    In short, all Gazans are now Hamas supporters, and the Israelis, unless they change course, will have to invade again, and this time there will be much higher casualties, making it likely that it will resort to nuclear weapons.

    What will the West do then?

  48. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    16 Jul, 2014 - 11:15 am

    … in no Arab country do the people care enough about the Palestinians to exert pressure on their leaderships.

    Not sure I’d go with your blanket condemnation there, Craig: Qatar is at least one exception:

    http://www.justhere.qa/2014/07/qatar-residents-gather-tonight-protest-bloodshed-palestine/

    http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/03/17169153-a-1-billion-bet-on-peace-qatar-funds-huge-palestinian-settlement-in-west-bank?lite

    http://dohanews.co/qatar-to-allot-20000-work-visas-for-palestinians/

    UAE:

    https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/middle-east/12728-uae-donates-52-million-to-palestinians-under-israeli-fire

    Also recently donated to UNRWA for Pal refugees in Syria.

    We might beware of blindly accepting the meme that the Arabs are doing nothing. Whose interests might that acceptance serve, eh? And even if it were true, it’s a damn good reason for doing more ourselves. Because it’s beyond dispute that not enough is being done.

    And while we’re patting ourselves on the back, remember that “the people” of the UK have so far had very little influence on US/UK policy in the region, which is not confined to providing aid to the Palestinians, but gives far more to Israel and Egypt, meanwhile stirring the regional shitheap as hard as it can to get rid of people Israel doesn’t like.

  49. Ba’al

    I am not patting us on the back at all. But the Arab contribution is paltry compared to their resources and what ought to be their interest. Tiny public gatherings of mostly Palestinians are not evidence of popular interest.

  50. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    16 Jul, 2014 - 11:26 am

    Bubbling away in the background, largely unreported in the UK -

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/15/us-iran-nuclear-kerry-idUSKBN0FK17B20140715

    I’ll hand it to Kerry, he’s a hard worker and addresses himself seriously to the impossible tasks he’s given.

    Unlike Walking Eagle.

  51. Craig – Both Hizbullah and Syrians are Arabs – and they’re largest supporters of Palestinian cause after Islamic Republic of Iran. In fact, Hizbullah is the only Arab military resistance which has humiliated Israeli army twice – in 2000 and 2006.

    http://rehmat1.com/2013/07/13/seven-years-on-hizbullah-defeated-israel/

  52. Well said, Ba’al (With Gaza), and you can add all the white, English-speaking states, especially the USA.

  53. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    16 Jul, 2014 - 11:33 am

    Hmmm, @ Craig. Given the various ethnic, tribal, national and religious divisions involved, which we are spending a lot of money to encourage, and given that spoken Arabic, varies almost as much as the Germanic language group as a whole across the region, given also that we are talking also about autocrats who control the substantial wealth of their countries and don’t encourage input from the proles, given yet again that a good Muslim gives 10% of his income to charity as his religious duty, I think you’re being hypercritical*. With respect.

    * ‘ER’. Not ‘O’, in case any illiterate pedants are watching.

  54. “largest supporters”. Well, where are they today when Gaza is being bombed? Precisely how is tis support manifesting itself?

  55. Ba’al

    Well, I think Arab cultures are horribly self-interested and materialistic. Actually I think the Arabs live by the ethical philosophy of Islam less than any other people on earth. Just my personal observation.

  56. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    16 Jul, 2014 - 11:50 am

    @ Craig -In the words of any logical-philosopher, “it depends what you mean by ‘culture’”. A clear distinction was always made by my Service mates between town and desert Arabs, in this respect, with absolute contempt implied towards the former (and occasionally OTT admiration of the latter). So I see your point. But I think it’s an unfair generalisation, which, if true, might almost give aid and comfort to the Puritans of Islam as they seek to return the Arab world to ‘better’ values.

    Relax. I’m hardly ever completely serious. You like to make people think. So do I. And thanks for the opportunity to try.

  57. Ba’al

    I am not in the least angry with you. And yes of course it is a gross generalisation. But there is an element of truth in there which deserves some thought.

  58. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    16 Jul, 2014 - 11:58 am

    @ Rehmat: PS. Hizb’ullah and Hamas are united only by their detestation of Israel. Israel tries to conflate the two for propaganda purposes, but the former is Shi’a, and the latter Sunni; the division is one we have long encouraged. Hizb’ullah is wisely staying out of this one, and is in any case partially engaged in supporting its long-term backer, Assad, in Syria. I hope it is still capable of humiliating Israel, should Israel yet again try to invade Lebanon on a specious pretext.

  59. The Arabs have been picked over by Western imperialism, especially the French, American, and the British, so much and for so long they are hardly recognize who they are, what they stand for, and with whom.

    Given what has happened to Arab leaders who wanted to change things, I am surprised that there is the support for the Palestinians that there is.

  60. A bus/taxi was targeted in Gaza this morning. The Israelis know exactly what they are doing.

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/t1.0-9/s526x395/10561585_522631317866219_7612830945670288986_n.jpg

  61. This is the comment that belongs with the photo.

    Abedalla Sharshara

    Three Martyrs in an air strike on a passenger bus, the bus with the yellow color used by Palestinians to travel between cities .. and this color is a sign of being a civilian vehicle ! share it .. and Tell the whole world that Israel is targeting Palestinian civilians — with Valeria Cortés, Ir Radhent Bharon Castello, Maya Christensen and 22 others in Gaza, Palestine.

  62. Will the bombing of Gaza recall the bombing of Guernica, resulting in a similar number of casualties, and triggering a general war?

  63. Craig, yes, but why is –the absence of noticeable support from the Arab Nation– that? Why is there no common cause for the Arab Nation to support, help, advise, lead? The West ‘used’ solely as an excuse? Hmm, there is weight and substance, tangibility, to the truth that The West has played the Arab Nation for its own gains. They’ve installed leadership in most of the ‘countries’ in the Middle East. Why Doesn’t the Arab Nation support Palestine, could one of the myriad of reasons be because Israel serves as a propaganda structure for their ‘leaders’?

  64. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    16 Jul, 2014 - 12:48 pm

    Meanwhile, Middle East peace envoy Tony Blair arrived in Cairo for talks on the Egyptian proposal to establish a ceasefire, sources at Cairo airport said.

    During his second visit to Cairo in less than a week, the former British prime minister is to meet with Egyptian President Abdel-Fattah al-Sissi to discuss Cairo’s attempts to de-escalate the conflict in Gaza, the sources said. (All Egyptian government media today: only source attributed is ‘sources at the airport’)

    I am led to believe otherwise. And have indirect confirmation. The ceasefire proposal is dead in the water. Why would Blair risk further humiliation?

  65. Light

    There is no doubt at all of the truth of what you say. But it does not excuse the terrible malaise of Arab society. The meme that everything – Arab corruption, poverty in Africa – is purely the fault of the West is sentimental and lazy.

  66. Gaza/Free Palestine protest outside BBC Broadcasting House, London, yesterday.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWFEqfS6plQ

    http://rt.com/uk/173044-bbc-protest-gaza-uk/

  67. Did the BBC report the Gaza protests Mary ? Or did they get the same censorship as the austerity and anti bias protests received ?

  68. Why then, the malaise? Who keeps the people in such a state of apathy, the virtue of the wealthy. Why is The Arab Nation as it is? Trace that finger back… and eventually when it stops you’ll find its tip blackened, crudely. Who covets energy? You dismiss the West’s involvement too harshly, they have and do play their part. They give aid, sure, but how much do their companies take? On what terms? To not colour The West with their responsibilities, to leave them free from accusation is, well, wrong.

  69. ------------·´`·.¸¸.¸¸.··.¸¸Node

    16 Jul, 2014 - 1:35 pm

    Why won’t Israel allow international observers in Gaza?

  70. No, Yes and Yes in that order Donny Darko.

    Ms Husain had Greg Philo of the Glasgow Media Group on Radio 4 Today this morning. She asked him if he thought that there was BBC bias against Palestine but she was not genuinely interested in his answer. She is hostile to him in other words. Almost jumped down his throat and kept interrupting. Dreadful woman and we all thought she was going to be a breath of fresh air.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04982j9 2hrs 39mins in. A very short clip of the protest was played at the start.

    Freedland of the JC and Guardian was there for Israhell of course. Did you hear her interrupting Freedland? No.

    There is no running order for the programme provided now nor any audio clips. That is the wonderful new bells and whistles BBC.

    http://www.gla.ac.uk/schools/socialpolitical/staff/gregoryphilo/

    http://www.glasgowmediagroup.org/

  71. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    16 Jul, 2014 - 1:36 pm

    Still trying to get some idea of just what the steaming pile of crap was that Sisi handed Hamas without so much as talking to them. AKA truce conditions.

    Here’s a clue:

    http://www.worldbulletin.net/haber/140716/israel-seeking-to-create-west-and-east-palestine-report

    The original is behind a paywall:

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.605149

    So much for a contiguous Palestine, especially as East Palestine would simply be a network of poorly-connected waste ground between Jewish settlements.

  72. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    16 Jul, 2014 - 1:38 pm

    Why won’t Israel allow international observers in Gaza?

    Give in. Why not? Health and Safety, perhaps – they might trip over the rubble?

  73. Craig
    “I am fed up hearing the West used as an excuse for the absolute disgusting venality and self-interest of Arabs and their culture.”

    Your ability to quantify the disgusting venality and self-interest that would have existed without centuries of colonialism and imperialism against the disgusting venality and self-interest that results from centuries of colonialism and imperialism is incredible!

    Lots of people, including some really brainy ones, have thought long and hard but still find it impossible to judge how centuries of imperialist war have impacted our own familiar society. It’s not so easy to unravel.

    Where did you get your extraordinary abilities of certain insight? Was it FO training?

  74. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    16 Jul, 2014 - 1:51 pm

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/palestinianauthority/10970795/Gaza-hospital-defies-Israel-evacuation-warning-amid-fears-for-frail-patients.html

    I’m not sure how anyone can report this without contacting the Hague re. war crimes. Repeatedly and intentionally hitting a hospital?

  75. “Dreadful woman and we all thought she was going to be a breath of fresh air.”

    They’re all employees of the BBC, and directed by the BBC to follow its policy on all matters, especially Israel!!

    That’s why they get paid so handsomely. Faust.

    It’s a propaganda organisation. That’s all it is.

    Why would anyone expect any of them to throw their career and pension for a few dead Pallies.

    The good ole days when Guerin, Bowen and others properly contextualised the vicious brutality and cruelty of the Nazi state are over, done, over a long time ago.

    These journalists were continually hounded and hounded by Israel and its hasbara puppets for years.

    Have no positive expectations of any of them these days. Mark Thompson finally saw to that.

    Anyway, Guy Evans has a wonderful presentation of the work of Edward Bernays and how modern propaganda, public relations and all the rest of the elite garbage works:

    http://smellslikehumanspirit.com/edward-bernays-propaganda

    Bernays pretended to be horrified at what Goebells had learnt from his work, but as Evans points out, it was all there from the start.

    And it’s still there today.

  76. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    16 Jul, 2014 - 2:07 pm

    Craig

    “The meme that everything – Arab corruption, poverty in Africa – is purely the fault of the West is sentimental and lazy.”
    ___________________

    Very well said – and you could have added that it is not only sentimental and lazy but revelatory of what is – or comes close to being – a hatred of the UK and the West more generally (which is, of course, also the reason why so many Eminence”s champion perceived enemies of the West like Putin).

    I think you have given some of your correspondents a few salutary truths as from your post at 10h21 today. But you are being too gracious and modest when you wrote “there is an element of truth in there {ie, in what you said} which deserves some thought”: more than en element, a whole lot of truth.

    Any way, you’ll soon notice that you have (unfortunately) have convinced none of them. Could you, though, please comment on the following, written by your reader DonnyDarko:

    “Ghadafi was a pan Arabic leader that tried in vain to unite all Arabs and wanted a free Palestinian people.”

    I myself think that is arrant nonsense, but would be interested to hear your opinion.

    **********************

    Habbabkuk approves of those who tell it like it is.

  77. The IDF have a twitter page named IDF Spokesperson.

    IDFVerified account‏@IDFSpokesperson
    Exhibit A: What we do to avoid civilian casualties
    Exhibit B: What Hamas does to avoid civilian casualties

    pic.twitter.com/va4mUW79GY

    IDFVerified account‏@IDFSpokesperson
    Today we dropped these leaflets urging civilians to move away from Hamas targets before IDF strikes in Gaza.

    pic.twitter.com/K6JIcCnRfX

    How bloody kind of them.

  78. War crimes?

    The Hague?

    “The Hague — In 2002, Congress passed a law enabling United States forces to unilaterally storm into peaceful Holland to liberate American soldiers held for war crimes.”

    Don’t be expecting to see any “friends of” there either:

    http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2009/0213/p05s01-woeu.html

  79. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    16 Jul, 2014 - 2:17 pm

    From Mary on Mishal Husain:

    “Dreadful woman and we all thought she was going to be a breath of fresh air.”

    ________________________

    Disillusion, regret, recrimination – that’s what you get when you and other Eminences go a -whorin’ after false Gods, you see.

    I just don’t know whether you are naive, daft, constantly negative or eternally optimistic – or all four at once. It is, however certain no one – repeat no one – can live up to your Olympian standards.

    *********************

    La vita sarebbe più bella pei Palestinesi se cessassero di sparar’ razzi contro Israël

  80. Sisi is an American puppet and American Middle Eastern policy is controlled by the needs of Israel.
    Sisi is nothing more than a continuation of millitry rule.
    Without Sisi what would exist in Egypt would be what the people voted for. The people doing the fighting were Sisi’s people because they wanted millitry rule to continue instead of what the people want.
    America and Israel are against democracy is Egypt because they know the will of the people in Egypt is to remove Zionism from Palestine.

  81. Gadaffi certainly attempted to unite the Arab states.

    He failed in that.

    He then tried to unite the African states.

    He failed in that too.

    He succeeded though in providing a very comfortable life for Libyan citizens for over forty years.

    The threat to the West was always independent states showing that one’s own resources could be employed to the betterment of one’s people, rather than simply exploited by the West and a client dictator.

    Anyway, the Empire is now gorging on its own and Westerners themselves will truly know what exploitation is all about.

  82. Arab corruption, poverty in Africa – is purely the fault of the West is sentimental and lazy.

    Corruption is rooted in poverty, subsistence wages, unequal distribution of wealth, and above all the systemic cast system that promotes cronyism and jobs for boys. The higher incidents of corruption in the third world are the results of the direct and indirect taxation by the empire that is enforced in the format of “freedom brand” and the “democracy brand” promoting systems of governance that are multinational corporate friendly. This brings about the above conditions for corruption and venality;people have to live and they will find means of supporting themselves, either through honest work or dishonest.

    Therefore dismissing the elephant in the room and apportioning blame to the natives perhaps is an oversimplification and a get of the jail card which could be misconstrued as; lazy and over sentimental.

    The simple fact remains that a handful of moneylenders and money junkies set the policies that their enforcers are then sent to enforce and realise. This then brings about the environment rife for corruption that in turn can be blamed on the “sand niggers”, et al whom should be eradicated and liquidated to make Earth a better planet to live on!

    David Icke believes the extra terrestrials and reptilians are to blamed, because he is an optimist. The reality is the hairless apes are reverting back to type and re-enacting the jungle scenes of exerting power in a bid to influence the rest of the troop!

  83. Craig. Iran and Hizbullah made Hamas and Islamic Jihad military power to humiliate the so-called world’s fourth most powerful armies. Are you suggesting that Iran or Hizbullah send their fighters in Gaza so that your Cameron and Jewish Lobby’s Obama could have an excuse to nuke both Iran and Lebanon? I assure you, both Nassrullah and Khamenei are not idiots like most of western leaders.

    On July 15, Israel-born British writer, author and musician Gilad Atzmon posted an article entitled Once Again, Israel is Defeated.

    “The situation is clear. Israel is desperate for a break in the violence. In spite of its endless ‘bravado,’ and military might, Israel lacks the military capacity and the courage to encounter Palestinian resistance on the ground. The Israeli elite recognizes that the military can’t resolve the problem, if anything, its extensive use would diminish Israeli manoeuvrability on the international front,” wrote Atzmon.

    “Hamas, on the other hand, has won its biggest military, political and ideological victory to date – it has managed to deliver some elementary messages to all of Israeli society: “You are living on our Palestinian stolen land, our right to return is elementary and is not negotiable. You Israelis don’t belong here, you never did, and you better had consider your options immediately,” adds Atzmon.

    “Hamas’ strategy in the last week has displayed a rare genius in the method it used to capitalise on Israel’s superior technology and the Iron Dome in particular. What could be smarter or more ethical than putting Israel under a constant barrage of rockets, delivering your essential message with missiles, yet knowing that no one will be hurt?,” says Atzmon.

    It seems the Zionist regime has torn apart one of UK’s most prominent Jewish Goldsmith family. British billionaire Lord James Goldsmith was one of the top Jewish donor to Israel. Yesterday, Jemima Goldsmith Khan, 40, the ex-wife of Pakistan’s world renowned cricketer Imran Khan, called her younger brother Benjamin James Goldsmith, 34, “ignorant” and “bigot” for tweeting: “Hamas uses its civilians to defend its weapons.” Ben Goldsmith is married into Rothschild family.

    http://rehmat1.com/2014/07/16/hamas-humiliates-israel-once-again/

  84. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    16 Jul, 2014 - 2:43 pm

    The reality is the hairless apes are reverting back to type and re-enacting the jungle scenes of exerting power in a bid to influence the rest of the troop!

    I do wish I didn’t have to agree with you, but I do. And I wish the anthropological aspect were more widely considered. Can we ever be anything other than pack-primates with guns?

  85. @Passerby

    There is no denying to fact that Western colonial powers have looted almost every African country of its natural resources and left the population in poverty. However, when it comes to corruption – no African country can beat the US, UK, France, Germany and Israel. Their politicians are on payroll of pro-Israeli organizations and morally and sexually corrupted.

  86. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    16 Jul, 2014 - 2:47 pm

    Herbie (in loco parentis for Craig)

    “Gadaffi certainly attempted to unite the Arab states.

    He failed in that.

    He then tried to unite the African states.

    He failed in that too.”
    ________________________

    I don’t know whether you’re speaking for Craig on his authority or simply couldn’t restrain yourself, but thanks anyway.

    Interesting post and you obviously know a lot about Khaddafi, so I’d appreciate it is you could tell us just a little more about the main features of his “trying” and the main reasons why, in your opinion, he failed?

    Thanks.

  87. “But the Arab contribution is paltry compared to their resources and what ought to be their interest”

    True up to a point but on the other hand only Arab nations have ever tried to take military action against Israel and also countries that have been generous supporters of Palestine (eg Iraq under Saddam Hussein and Gadhafi’s Libya) have been picked off.

    Also, Hamas has lost a lot of support from key allies like Hezbollah and Iran because of its support for the removal of Assad in Syria and is therefore rather isolated at the moment.

  88. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    16 Jul, 2014 - 2:52 pm

  89. You can slog through the long “trying” yourself, since it’s purely a factual matter.

    As to the opinion end of things, he failed because he was dealing with those who, unlike himself, were clients of the Empire and had little interest in bettering the lives of their peoples, amongst other commitments.

    That applied as much to the Arab states as to the Africans.

  90. 4 children have been killed by a shell fired from an Israeli Navy ship. They were on the beach. No words.

    Reuters confirm

  91. Habbakuk and other trolls. Please fuck off. Your droppings are jarring in the light of the news coming in.

  92. Thousands pro-Gaza protesters: ‘BBC, shame on you’

    Protesters have accused the BBC of “anti-Palestinian bias” in its reporting of the Gaza conflict as they staged a demonstration outside the corporation’s central London headquarters this evening.

    Crowds chanted “BBC, shame on you” by New Broadcasting House near Oxford Circus during a protest organized by the Palestine Solidarity Campaign, Stop and War and the CND.

  93. Off TopicL 9/11 secret docs

    anyone think the Saudis are getting a bit uncomfortable?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItE28oeMnas#t=146

  94. ------------·´`·.¸¸.¸¸.··.¸¸Node

    16 Jul, 2014 - 3:40 pm

    Mary 16 Jul, 2014 – 3:07 pm

    “Habbakuk and other trolls. Please fuck off. Your droppings are jarring in the light of the news coming in.”

    Answer honestly, Mary. Do you think that remark is likely to deter or encourage them?

  95. There will be a protest tomorrow early evening outside BBC at the Mailbox in Birmingham. There will be speakers at the Council House on the indiscriminate murders in Gaza and Eastern Ukraine from 7.30 p.m. committee room 3-4.

  96. Interesting comments by Israeli defense and aerospace engineering expert, Dr. Moti Shefer:

    He argues that the much touted Israeli Iron Dome security system is a heap of old cobblers.

    Point is, it doesn’t need to be any good because the Hamas rockets are so crap.

    Its only function is to make these crap Hamas rockets seem more threatening than they actually are:

    “Iron Dome is a sound and light show that is intercepting only Israeli public opinion, and itself, of course. Actually, all the explosions you see in the sky are self explosions. No Iron Dome missile has ever collided with a single rocket. Open spaces are a myth invented in order to up Iron Dome’s current interception percentages. The rockets announced as intercepted by Iron Dome either never reach the ground, or are virtual rockets invented and destroyed on the Iron Dome control computer. To this day, no one has ever seen an intercepted rocket fall to the ground.”

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/iron-dome-is-a-bluff-says-israeli-defense-expert-moti-shefer/5391478

    I refer you back to Edward Bernays. Modern propaganda is all smoke, mirrors and bogeymen.

    As of course are the threats to the UK and US.

    Reminds me of those CNN scumbags back in the 1990s dressing up in gasmasks, helmets, flak jackets and god knows what else in a fuckin TV studio in the States pretending to be reporting from an Israel under existential threat.

    The whole thing is a charade, induced only to enable the Israelis to attack Gazan infrastructure.

  97. Tide must be out, Habba’s out from under his rock.

    Habba Since you are stalking ,
    Where should the 100,000 Gazan’s go that Israel have asked to leave so they can bomb their homes and hospitals ? Do you equate what Israel is doing with Nazi brutality, or do you think it’s all just okay ? Is it fair to imprison a population just because you disagree with the way they vote ? Why is democracy for Palestinians a crime in Israeli eyes ? How many tons of American bombs will be punishment enough for the union of Hamas and the PA ? You love asking questions, would love to hear your Regev point of view.

    The United Arab republic was an attempt at a Pan Arabian State. It only lasted 3 or 4 years,but it was an attempt.4 countries.
    Lasted as long as the Warsaw Ghetto but not as long as the blockade of Gaza.
    Explain why it is arrant nonsense ?

  98. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    16 Jul, 2014 - 4:10 pm

    Reminds me of the claims made for the Patriot system prior to Gulf 1. And afterwards revealed to be gross exaggerations. Mind you, the deployment in Kuwait during Gulf 2 had more success, including one American and one British aircraft…

  99. Ba’al

    There’s another important issue here, and it concerns the number of rockets the Israelis claim were fired off by Hamas.

    If, as Dr Shefer says:

    “virtual rockets invented and destroyed on the Iron Dome control computer”

    then the number of rockets fired by Hamas can be any number the Israelis choose. I thought the 800-1000 or whatever it was was rather a large number.

    Remember, this guy is an Israeli defense and aerospace engineering expert. Prize-winning, no less.

    Smoke, mirrors and media fictions are all that’s necessary to frighten a population.

  100. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    16 Jul, 2014 - 4:28 pm

    Mary

    “Habbakuk and other trolls. Please fuck off. Your droppings are jarring….”

    _______________

    You’re resorting, increasingly, to the use of “fuck off”.

    That, coming from the pen of an elderly, respectable, retired professional living in leafy, prosperous Surrey, is rather…..jarring.

    **********************

  101. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    16 Jul, 2014 - 4:47 pm

    DonnyDarko

    “Do you equate what Israel is doing with Nazi brutality,…… etc etc ….Lasted as long as the Warsaw Ghetto …etc etc”
    ________________________

    Donny, experience has taught me that most people who post on this blog are not interested in asking sensible questions and are even less inclined to answer them. They are not really here to “discuss” or to “debate”; at best, they merely seek to outvent the ventings of their peers. The more intelligent of them know that this is true.

    I’m afraid that you belong to those “most people” and so discussion with you would be pointless even if it were possible. And a contributory reason for declining to answer what you call your “questions” (of course, they are not) is that I decline to enter into discussion with someone who appears to equate the actions of Israeli govts with those of the Nazi régime.

  102. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    16 Jul, 2014 - 4:56 pm

    Herbie

    “You can slog through the long “trying” yourself, since it’s purely a factual matter.”
    _________________

    Of course I could google up Khaddafi ad nauseam, but that wouldn’t tell me which elements of his “tryings” YOU find particularly important and significant would it.

    After all, you made the claim and so it would be interesting to hear from the horse’s mouth, so to speak.

    But if you were just lazily repeating a couple of sentences you read once, then that’s OK and of course I shan’t insist.

    *************************

    Khadaffi – the Hope of the Oppressed or mere Arab tyrant? Have your say on CM!

  103. Photographs from around the world of people protesting this latest Israeli slaughter of Gazan civilians:

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/in-photos-worldwide-protest-against-israeli-attack-on-gaza/5391534

    All over the world…

  104. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    16 Jul, 2014 - 5:05 pm

    Passerby

    “Thousands pro-Gaza protesters: ‘BBC, shame on you’

    Protesters have accused the BBC of “anti-Palestinian bias” in its reporting of the Gaza conflict as they staged a demonstration outside the corporation’s central London headquarters this evening.”
    _______________________

    Just an “oversight” that you posted your link with telling us that it was to something called the “AhlulBay (a.s.) News Agency”?

    Intrigued, I clicked on the “Intro” and “About” buttins in its homepage, but info on who they are, where they’re based and so on came there none.

    Any more objective sources for the “thousands” claim, Passerby?

  105. Ba’al Zevul (With Gaza)

    …. And I wish the anthropological aspect were more widely considered. Can we ever be anything other than pack-primates with guns?

    Yes, most certainly we can and we will transcend pack-primates, that is if we take account of the pack-primates characteristics that so far have been taken as “traits” and “nature” of the human beings.

    The primitive arguments about the “competition for resources” belong to addled brain philosophers and the lazy recalcitrant “illuminati” (the gaggle of ne’er-do-wells whom have found the formulae for pandering to their inner pack-primate and reinforce the status quo of ignorance being a virtue), because otherwise everyone would be an “illuminati”.

    In the vastness of universe the resources are aplenty and sources abound. In the vastness of oceans resources are a plenty and sources abound, in fact on Earth resources are a plenty and sources abound, yet to find the almost pitiful struggle of man against man in the most primitive fashion imported from the jungle can only be the work of the hairless apes whom have only a limited imagination and moreover limited capacity to think and synthesis.

    Future is bright, we can all try helping to accelerate its realisation by becoming illuminated and not to buy into the primitive magic shows that maintain; “this is what life is all about!”.

    Survival of the fittest, etc. Do they mean us and not them? Which is fit among the doddering geriatric moneylenders and money junkies?

    Rehmat

    However, when it comes to corruption – no African country can beat the US, UK, France, Germany and Israel. Their politicians are on payroll of pro-Israeli organizations and morally and sexually corrupted.

    The corruption in third world is for supplementing the subsistence wages and income, the corruption in the developed world is about greed and decadence. Further the corruption of the gofer class ie the politicians and political actors, is an extension of deploying hirelings to carry out set tasks by the moneylenders and money junkies.

    The gofer class have little in the way of compunction to carry out the most deplorable acts that is set for them by their employers/clients/mastyers; if only the price is right. The last labour prime minister and current quartet envoy to Palestine being a case in example.

  106. Sorry A Node. Have had enough of it.

    ~~~

    Witness to a shelling: first-hand account of deadly strike on Gaza port
    There is a deafening explosion, then a second. Four children are dead. Four survivors reach the safety of our hotel

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/16/witness-gaza-shelling-first-hand-account

    ‘Where the harbour wall ends and the beach starts, there are a few brightly coloured tents and chairs for beach users in more peaceful times. The four figures jump on to the beach and begin running towards us and the safety of the hotel.

    Smoke billows from a beach shack following the in Gaza City which killed four children.
    http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/7/16/1405521160597/Smoke-billows-from-a-beac-009.jpg

    Only afterwards do we discover there are four others who are dead, all children, lying on the wall. I am shown a picture of one of the dead boys, his skin scorched and bruised. Their names are released later: Ahed Bakr, aged 10; Zakaria, 10; and two other boys from the Bakr family, both named Mohammad, aged 11 and nine.’

    What evil.

    PS ‘Port’ is a misnomer. There was a port. It was bombed.

    ‘Since the 1993 Oslo I Accord, there have been plans to build a much larger seaport in Gaza. Due to the continuing Israeli–Palestinian conflict, these plans have not been materialized as of 2014.

    In 2005, Israel approved Palestinian plans to rebuild and complete the construction of a port a few miles south of Gaza City, which had begun before the outbreak of the Palestinian uprising in September 2000 and was destroyed by Israeli forces together with Gaza’s existing airport near Rafah, following the outbreak of the Second Intifada.[19] Some academics have argued that a port which is under full Palestinian control is an essential step to achieving a lasting peace between Israel and a future Palestinian state

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_of_Gaza

  107. See them. Hear them. Then count them.

    Mary
    16 Jul, 2014 – 12:59 pm
    Gaza/Free Palestine protest outside BBC Broadcasting House, London, yesterday.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWFEqfS6plQ

    http://rt.com/uk/173044-bbc-protest-gaza-uk/

  108. Ba’al Zevul (With Gaza)
    “And I wish the anthropological aspect were more widely considered. Can we ever be anything other than pack-primates with guns?”

    Where the hell do you get your anthropology?

    I have someone waiting at the door but I can’t let you get away with this nonsesne. You are buying into a Hobbsian world view as sold by the propagandist Attenborough. I’ll be back.

  109. doug scorgie

    16 Jul, 2014 - 5:33 pm

    Craig
    16 Jul, 2014 – 11:24 am

    “But the Arab contribution is paltry compared to their resources and what ought to be their interest.”

    ——————————

    Obviously Craig it is not in the Arab government’s interests otherwise they would be doing more.

    All the Gulf States have an interest in keeping in with the USA. The USA supports Israel to the hilt so the Arab states keep shtum.

    The Arab governments do give aid to help Palestinian development, as do other countries, but this aid is diverted from development projects (roads, schools, houses and hospitals) to emergency relief because Israel destroys them, especially in Gaza.

    Also I would point out that Kuwait, Bahrain, Iraq, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates don’t like public protests and many people in these countries have their own struggles for freedoms and democratic rights to worry about.

    Only the west has the political clout to sort Israel out, a Zionist abomination they helped create and develop and continue to maintain.

  110. doug scorgie

    16 Jul, 2014 - 5:41 pm

    Craig
    16 Jul, 2014 – 11:54 am

    “…yes of course it is a gross generalisation. But there is an element of truth in there which deserves some thought.”

    With respect Craig, there is an element of truth in all bullshit.

  111. “He argues that the much touted Israeli Iron Dome security system is a heap of old cobblers.”

    Yes, been seeing that a lot on Twitter. Never saw it with a source I could quote. They’re saying it’s nothing but smoke and mirrors to reassure Israeli public. And, allows them to state as many Hamas rockets as they like.

    Also saw this though

    “US to support iron dome expansion by $350 million.” (no source)

    All I could find was this
    http://freebeacon.com/national-security/house-lawmakers-more-money-needed-for-israeli-missile-defense/

  112. doug scorgie

    16 Jul, 2014 - 6:04 pm

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !
    16 Jul, 2014 – 2:07 pm

    “Habbabkuk approves of those who tell it like it is.”

    ——————

    I didn’t know you were a George Galloway supporter Habbabkuk!

  113. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    16 Jul, 2014 - 6:05 pm

    “a Zionist abomination they helped create and develop…”
    __________________

    The above from a person – Mr Scorgie – who continues to deny that he believes Israel has no right to exist.

  114. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    16 Jul, 2014 - 6:07 pm

    Mr Scorgie

    “With respect Craig, there is an element of truth in all bullshit.”
    __________________

    Does that apply to your posts as well, Doug?

  115. ------------·´`·.¸¸.¸¸.··.¸¸Node

    16 Jul, 2014 - 6:07 pm

    Herbie 16 Jul, 2014 – 4:23 pm

    “There’s another important issue here, and it concerns the number of rockets the Israelis claim were fired off by Hamas.
    If, as Dr Shefer says:
    “virtual rockets invented and destroyed on the Iron Dome control computer”
    then the number of rockets fired by Hamas can be any number the Israelis choose.”/i>

    Good point, Herbie

  116. The boys killed while playing soccer on the beach were Ahed Bakr, 10, Zakaria Bakr, 10, Mohammed Bakr, 11, and Ismail Bakr, 9.

  117. nevermind, it will happen anyway

    16 Jul, 2014 - 6:11 pm

    Israel is a rogue, war mongering nation that steals land and occupys and exploits foreign territory under force of arms. It can’t be trusted by the world community, and then what?

    I’m incensed, the German taxcpayers are paying for israels subsidised Uboat force of now 6 submarines. They are specially adapted to take nuclear tipped missile and are passed by minister Gabriel due to ‘Germany’s historic responsibility for israels safety and security’

    So the brave Israeli navy needs German subsidised subs to shoot at little children on the beach, you could not make it up. Milking German feelings of guilt for all its worth, I call this.

    http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/u-boot-fuer-israel-bundesregierung-genehmigt-heiklen-export-a-981289.html

  118. doug scorgie

    16 Jul, 2014 - 6:14 pm

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !
    16 Jul, 2014 – 2:17 pm

    “La vita sarebbe più bella pei Palestinesi se cessassero di sparar’ razzi contro Israël”

    ———————————-

    la vita sarebbe migliore se Habbabkuk scopata off

  119. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    16 Jul, 2014 - 6:14 pm

    Mr Scorgie

    Whenever the conversation turns to the aid (of various sorts) the Arab states give – or rather do not give – to the Palestinians, you invariably reply by referring to the Gulf states

    Eg, “All the Gulf States have an interest in keeping in with the USA.”

    Why do you always omit to mention Jordan, Syria, Egypt (pre-Mubarak), Irak (pre-Gulf Wars), Libya (during Khadaff’s reign), the Maghreb countries and, for that matter, Iran?

    As a reminder : Jordan absorbed the West Bank from 1949 to 1967 instead of helping the Palestinians set up their own state there.

  120. doug scorgie

    16 Jul, 2014 - 6:20 pm

    Arsalan
    16 Jul, 2014 – 2:17 pm

    “America and Israel are against democracy is Egypt…”

    ————————————

    Yes Arsalan but they are also against democracy ANYWHERE.

  121. Jonathan Cook: How US and Blair plotted ‘ceasefire’ scam
    16 July 2014

    We now have confirmation from the Israeli daily Haaretz of what we should have suspected: that the idea for the so-called Egyptian “ceasefire proposal” was actually hatched in Washington, the messenger boy was arch-war criminal Tony Blair, and the terms were drafted by Israel.

    The intention was either to corner Hamas into surrendering – and thereby keep the savage blockade of Gaza in place – or force Hamas to reject the proposal and confirm the Israeli narrative that it is a terrorist organisation with which Israel cannot make peace.

    According to Haaretz, Blair secretly initiated his “ceasefire” activity after “coordinating” with US Secretary of State John Kerry. On Saturday he headed off to Cairo to meet with the US-backed Egyptian dictator Abdel Fattah al-Sisi to persuade him to put his name to the proposal.

    Immediately afterwards, he travelled to Israel to meet Benjamin Netanyahu on Saturday afternoon. Sisi and Netanyahu were then supposed to thrash out the details. When they failed to do so, Blair intervened again on behalf of the Americans and the pair spoke by phone on Saturday evening.

    Here’s the key paragraph from Haaretz:

    Senior Israeli officials and Western diplomats said the reason the Egyptian cease-fire initiative was so short-lived is that it was prepared hastily and was not coordinated with all the relevant parties, particularly Hamas.

    Wonderful that throw-away last line. In all this activity, it never occurred to the US, Blair, Sisi or Netanyahu – and no doubt Mahmoud Abbas, who is strangely absent from this account – that it might be necessary to sound out Hamas on the terms of a ceasefire it would need to abide by.

    Now it seems Kerry is using US muscle to get Egypt, Qatar and Turkey to strong-arm Hamas into surrendering.

    It’s depressingly predictable that the corporate media have swallowed the line of Israel accepting the “ceasefire proposal” and Hamas rejecting it. What Hamas did was reject a US-Israeli diktat to sign away the rights of the people of Gaza to end a siege that cuts them off from the rest of the world.

    But there is a long pedigree to such deceptions. It is reminiscent of a hasbara favourite: that the Jews accepted the UN partition plan of 1947 while the Palestinians rejected it. The reality – then, as now – is that the colonial powers sought to strip the Palestinians of their rights and their homeland without even consulting them.

    http://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2014-07-16/how-us-and-blair-plotted-ceasefire-scam/

  122. PAJU (Palestinian and Jewish Unity) # 700 July 11th, 2014

    One Palestinian child has been killed by Israel every 3 days for the past 13 years

    Official statistics from the Ministry of Information in Ramallah have revealed that 1,518 Palestinian children were killed by Israel’s occupation forces from the outbreak of the second Intifada in September 2000 up to April 2013. That’s the equivalent of one Palestinian child killed by Israel every 3 days for almost 13 years.

    The ministry added that the number of children injured by the Israelis since the start of the Second Intifada against Israel’s occupation has now reached 6,000. “The International Day for the Protection of Children is on June 1,” said a spokesman, “but Palestinian children are still subject to attacks by the Israelis and Jewish settlers on an almost daily basis.”

    Noting that 2012 saw an unprecedented rise in the number of children arrested by Israeli forces, the report pointed out that 9,000 Palestinians under 18 years old have been arrested since the end of September 2000. Almost half of the Palestinian population is under 18. Almost two hundred and fifty Palestinian minors are being held in prison by Israel; 47 of them are children under 16 years of age.

    Adapted from: ” One Palestinian child has been killed by Israel every 3 days for the past 13 years” and published on line at: http://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/middle-east/6185-one-palestinian-child-has-been-killed-by-israel-every-3-days-for-the-past-13-years

    Imagine the international cries of outrage if that headline read:

    One Israeli child has been killed by Palestine every 3 days for the past 13 years

  123. doug scorgie

    16 Jul, 2014 - 6:51 pm

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !
    16 Jul, 2014 – 4:47 pm

    DonnyDarko to Habbabkuk:

    “Do you equate what Israel is doing with Nazi brutality…”

    Habbabkuk:

    “I decline to enter into discussion with someone who appears to equate the actions of Israeli govts with those of the Nazi régime.”

    ——————————–

    So question (inadvertently) answered!

  124. doug scorgie

    16 Jul, 2014 - 7:18 pm

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !
    16 Jul, 2014 – 6:14 pm

    “Whenever the conversation turns to the aid (of various sorts) the Arab states give – or rather do not give – to the Palestinians, you invariably reply by referring to the Gulf states.”

    I have never posted a comment before on the aid Arab states give to Palestine so you just made that up Habbabkuk.

  125. doug scorgie

    16 Jul, 2014 - 7:24 pm

    By the way Habbabkuk, given the danger of playing on a Gaza beach during hostilities, surely the four children that were blown to pieces have only themselves to blame.

  126. ” surely the four children that were blown to pieces have only themselves to blame.”

    You’re a sick man.

  127. Today is the crunch day. These Israeli killings are indefensible.

    Wednesday 16 Jul 2014

    Live from Gaza: four children killed on the beach
    Channel 4 News Foreign Correspondent Jonathan Miller is reporting on the bombardment of Gaza from the ground, where Egypt’s attempt to broker a truce between authorities in Israel and Gaza has failed.

    Follow the team’s tweets, videos and blogs throughout the day here or on Twitter @millerc4 and @c4annalisa. Warning: tweets shows images some people may find distressing.

    http://blogs.channel4.com/miller-on-foreign-affairs/live-gaza-bombing-continues-ceasefire/802

    Apparently Snow went for Regev. Link later.

  128. Listen to Lyse Doucet at 1hr 41mins in. Radio 4 Today this morning. She is in Gaza and is truthful about this very thing – that is that Hamas had only known of any ceasefire proposal through the media! I guessed this was the trick being played. Shows of course that any Israeli expressed concern for the lives of mums and children is pure pretence as demonstrated today on the beach in Gaza.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04982j9

    She followed a Mr Herzog speaking from Israel.

  129. I certainly have no trouble, comparing what the Israelis are doing in Gaza with what the Nazis did with the airborne forces for Franco’s nationalists to the towns of Durango and Guernica in the Basque country in April 1937, even down to their blaming their massacres upon their communist and Christian victims.

    For more, read Antony Beevor’s magnificent The Battle For Spain, p. 253ff.

  130. Breaking news

    Israel declares ‘humanitarian truce’
    Israel announces “humanitarian ceasefire” in Gaza after 9 days of deadly rocket and missile exchanges with militants

    More to follow.

    BBC website 16 July 2014 Last updated at 20:13

  131. from 10:00 to 15:00 local time

    They’re going to pause their dropping bombs for 5 hours. That is just so “humanitarian”.

  132. The lull is just to allow the Gazans to make hopeful trouble for their Hamas leaders while resupplying and recalibrating their Iron Dome missile batteries.

  133. Info on the Iron Dome. Look at the costs and the sums the US have been shelling out. Now co production with Raytheon.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Dome

  134. “http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/07/gaza-conundrum/#comment-467230

    The names of the children that were killed.”

    Terribly sorry, Mary. Did I step on your toes?

    Surely what’s important is that the boys’ names are posted, not who posted them first.

  135. Resident Dissident

    16 Jul, 2014 - 9:23 pm

    And where is all this concern for the Palestinians when they are being bombed and starved by Assad? For some reason we never receive reports from Mary and others when the violence is being perpetrated by those other than Israel – why is this?

    http://www.unrwa.org/syria-crisis

  136. Whataboutry at its best:

    What about the gravitational pull of the Saturn on the tidal waves in the Gaza strip that make the fish run away, whilst all of you haters blame those nice a boys in the boats provided fro free by the German Nazi bastards and the American friends for free, and firing shells and rockets in celebration of Purim!!

    You are all haters and you only are jelous …………………

    Don’t even mention Golan heights bombing, and don’t you dare to talk about they belonged to Syria. As we all know and have the relevant versus somewhere in that land register record you lot have come to know as the Bible; Abe baby himself promised those heights just after he had had his lunch and was very pleased with the cooking.

    You haters just hate and hate and are all poopy pants, and I hate you !!!

    Well I for one I am convinced it is a major human rights progress if the zoinist mercenaries kill the baly lot of the goyem and call it the planet zionistan where do I stand in the queue to be shot?

  137. Resident Dissident

    16 Jul, 2014 - 10:10 pm

    You still didn’t answer the questions raised.

  138. Your jaundiced, biased and predictable world view can accept no other answer other than the one coming down from hasbara central via gywotist. Thus why should billions of electrons be disturbed for the sake of you coming back with some more whatbaoutry and or such like?

    What do you know about Syria?

    Other than the drivel that has been fed to you by the hasbara central and bbc?

  139. Resident Dissident, 16 Jul, 2014 – 10:10 pm

    Bedtime RD before you morph into ESLO :) .

  140. http://thehigherlearning.com/2014/07/11/israels-government-is-paying-college-students-to-spread-pro-israel-propaganda-on-social-media/

    Jews have been employing this tactic they call “Hasbara” for hundreds of years now. That is the reason why jews control Hollywood and most of if not all of our major news corporations, to control and maintain the narrative of past and current world events. The narrative of Hasbara has a victimized quality underpinning it, a very passive-aggressive approach, Israel or jews are always defending not attacking. They play the mis-understood victim and invite their critics to attack them, and than scream antisemitism the first chance they get if they start to lose control of the narrative.

  141. Thanks for the link to Channel 4 News Peacewisher. Snow was fired up and very much like his old self. Regev had no answers. He was floundering.

  142. I came across that dreadful BBC woman Caroline Thomson who refused to air the DEC appeal for Gaza during Cast Lead.

    She left the BBC with a golden goodbye of £670,000.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2236793/Parade-BBC-chiefs-hit-pay-jackpot-MPs-fury-executive-gets-670-000–wanted-quit.html

    She is a trustee and Deputy Chairman of the National Gallery and a non executive director of the NHS Trust Development Authority who have recently approved a new £353m PFI hospital in Smethwick, yet another big debt for future generations to pay.

    http://www.ntda.nhs.uk/about/meet-the-team/

    Midland Metropolitan Hospital PFI plans approved
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-28289741

    New niches are always found as I have said before.

  143. Expanded version of Heathcote Williams “Old Man and a young man in Gaza.”

    http://www.stopwar.org.uk/poetry/an-old-man-and-a-young-man-in-gaza#.U8RIeahRfQp

  144. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    17 Jul, 2014 - 9:35 am

    Where the hell do you get your anthropology?

    I observe people.

  145. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    17 Jul, 2014 - 9:39 am

    “Old Man and a young man in Gaza.”

    Wow. Just wow.

  146. Arab MK Stages ‘Moment of Silence’ for Gaza Dead in Knesset: Video -
    MK Basel Ghattas (Balad) cause a firestorm in the Knesset Wednesday, after he staged a “moment of silence” for the “victims” of Israel’s attack on Gaza.

    Information Clearing House. 15 July 2014

  147. This is what Aaronovitch has had to say, 11 days on needless to say. Jeering at Greg Philo. Par for his course.

    ‘The thing to notice here is how the argument is not about itself but about something else. It becomes detached from questions of evidence and exploration and attached to matters of faith and harm. At which point any deviant observation is somehow impermissible. Two of the issues that have preoccupied us recently illustrate, I think, this process at work. The first is the situation in Gaza. For nearly a week impassioned people – British people – have been tweeting past each other passionately, stopping only for the occasional insult. It’s all dead children talk one way, and rocket talk the other. Anyone getting in the way of these narratives will be done over for not caring about dead children or not caring about rockets.

    The BBC’s job, if it does it right, is precisely to get in the way. So yesterday morning I walked the dog with a professor from Glasgow in my headphones complaining about the BBC’s supposed bias against Palestinians. This came a few hours after I’d experienced the sight and sound of Jeremy Bowen and Lyse Doucet bending over backwards to make sure that the Palestinian viewpoints were understood.

    But the professor – who is a professor of communications – wasn’t having it. The problem was the BBC wasn’t giving the whole story. “The issue is the roots of the conflict. The problem of the coverage is that it doesn’t refer to the history of it, that the Palestinians are a displaced people, that they were forced to flee from Israel, that they lost their homes, that the occupation is illegal …” And so on. The professor of communications studies wanted the BBC to constantly communicate to its viewers and listeners that Israel was not only wrong now, but was intrinsically wrong. Wrong since its foundation. On the wrong side of international law. If it didn’t then the BBC itself was wrong.

    On the same programme the leader of the opposition Israeli Labour Party gave another BBC presenter a bit of a caning for not understanding properly about the rockets. Hamas is terrorist, they fire rockets, they won’t sign a ceasefire, so what would you do? This was a fair rhetorical question to the Professor of Lopsided Communications but not to someone who was simply exploring the idea that there were possibly alternatives that might not involve the deaths of quite so many civilians. To someone like that this retort was, in effect, a closing down of debate. It was saying “let’s not think about this”.’

    http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1405587305.html

    A scribbler in a rag that was once a great newspaper.

  148. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    17 Jul, 2014 - 10:17 am

  149. Can’t say I disagree with AA on the nature of twitter discussions surrounding Israel / Gaza. Any attempt to intervene between the pro-Israel or pro-Palestinian narratives and you are condemned by both sides for supporting the other. Zero sum game, like most of the Middel East at the minute.

  150. Did anyone notice his distortion of the facts? ‘The Palestinians were forced to flee from Israel’.

    The entity known as ‘Israel’ (it has no borders and knows no laws) did not exist prior to 1948. Then the Zionists occupied the Palestinians’ country and stole their homes and land. Then they took more in 1967. Then they occupied the Golan Heights. And so on.

  151. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    17 Jul, 2014 - 11:53 am

    Terribly sorry, Mary. Did I step on your toes?

    You must read all of Mary’s posts, and fix the wisdom therein firmly in your mind, before posting, Dre. Lest your transgressions multiply. (When I jarred her for one of several duplicate posts to mine, she advised me that she didn’t read my posts at all)
    Habbabreak is your friend here.

  152. I didn’t read the Professor’s comments as a distortion of facts. I read the line ‘that Palestinians were forced to flee from Israel’ to mean flee from areas within the borders of the 1948 state of Israel. I don’t know why a Professor who was attacking the BBC for pro-Israel bias would attempt a clumsy bit of pro-Israel revisionism.

    The study of history is a truly wonderful thing but with regards to the Israel / Palestine issue it will not be of much use in finding a settlement. Regardless of desire, Israel will not cease to exist. The Palestinians will never regain what was once ‘theirs’. Once that premise is accepted then actual negotiations can begin concerning what is required to break the repetitive cycle of death and destruction.
    Both sides will need to concede much in order to find a lasting peace. Israel will need to stop building settlements and will have to redraw their borders in order to create a viable Palestinian state. The Palestinians will have to accept that they will never defeat Israel through force of arms and need to negotiate for what they can achieve now. Both seem very unlikely now, but then in 1988 no one would have thought a decade later Sinn Fein would sign the Good Friday Agreement with the British Government.

    Anyone who believes that taking to twitter, the internet or even the streets to protest against Israel and who cite ‘history’ as a reason it is illegitimate are deluding themselves that they are doing anything to contribute towards peace. Note that I am making a clear distinction between protesting and criticising the acts of Israel and the issue of protesting against the legitimacy of the state. It has been founded, it has endured for 66 years and it has becoming stronger each year. Accept the reality of the situation rather than wishing history had produced a different outcome.

  153. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    17 Jul, 2014 - 12:33 pm

    Mick – wouldn’t you say that a large part of Israel’s “strength” is dependent on the willingness of the US to veto legitimate UN resolutions and supply it with very advanced military hardware – better, indeed, than it allows NATO to have? Its indifference to international legislation designed among other things to prevent another Holocaust?

    Negotiating ‘for what they can achieve now’ has been a constant theme of the Palestinian political response. And every time they get near it, talks collapse, and the goalposts are moved away for next time. As you say, the Israelis are not going to stop building settlements on (continuously) annexed – read stolen – land. As you don’t say, Israel has no intention whatever of accommodating any kind of Palestinian state. At best what may emerge is an apartheid state in which Palestinian second-class citizens are graciously permitted to exist beside Jewish citizens with full rights. Nothing happening in the last decade begins to contradict that assumption.

    To achieve something approaching a fair resolution for the Palestinians, the US free pass and aid would have to be withdrawn, and actual pressure applied to the Tel Aviv regime. Exactly because it is immune to Western public opinion, indeed. But opinion can be translated into action: for this reason, no protest is wasted.

    On your scenario, the Pals will still be bargaining in 2050, for permission to live in their own villages and the right of return for residents who have left them for the day to clean the toilets in a Jewish settlement. And the talks will break down…

  154. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    17 Jul, 2014 - 12:46 pm

    As I imagined, dep’t.
    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.605499
    (paywall)

    Or, in clear but just a little bit slanted…

    http://mwcnews.net/focus/politics/43274-us-and-blair.html

    Yes, Toni, Bibi and Sisi put the ceasefire proposal together. I can confirm the timing of the Blair flights, but I am still a little mystified as to his day in Baku in the midst of his negotiations.

    It’s depressingly predictable that the corporate media have swallowed the line of Israel accepting the “ceasefire proposal” and Hamas rejecting it. What Hamas did was reject a US-Israeli diktat to sign away the rights of the people of Gaza to end a siege that cuts them off from the rest of the world.

    Not actually sure of Kerry’s involvement. He seems to have been handling this with a pair of tongs and a dog poo bag. Blair could have fouled this up by himself.

    And one might reasonably ask whether Hamas has even yet been consulted as to the possible terms of a truce between it and its opponent. And be answered, no. Mr. Tony doesn’t go there. As if there was the faintest possibility it would work…

    ‘Hey, evil Islamist terrorist guys, me and Netanyahu, and, you know, the guy who rounded up your guys in Egypt and sentenced them to death, have just come up with an idea for a truce which makes Bibi very happy.’

  155. Stop stirring it Ba’al. Dreoilin does not need much encouragement as I know to my cost.

    Do you see my posts as some sort of competition? I do read all your posts and although the BLiar travelogue is fascinating, it becomes repetitive. I don’t really care where the shit goes or whom he meets.

    Anyway I imagined that we were ALL on the same side, or should be.

    PS Habbabreak results in superfluous and sometimes duplicated comments/links.

  156. Hope this holds. ‘Purported’ is a strange word to use??

    Israel-Gaza ceasefire deal ‘reached’

    A ceasefire deal has been reached to end fighting between Israel and Palestinian militants in Gaza, an Israeli official has told the BBC.

    He said it was due to take effect on Friday at 06:00 local time (03:00 GMT).

    Hamas has not yet officially commented on the purported ceasefire, said to have been reached after talks in Egypt.

    /..
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28344637

  157. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    17 Jul, 2014 - 1:32 pm

    Not long ago I mentioned that Tony Blair had apparently taken a day out from his (futile) negotiations with Israel and Egypt, to go and visit Azerbaijan. I wondered why.

    Now I know.

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/07/17/energy-gas-pipeline-idUKL6N0PS39620140717

    Scroll to ‘COMPETITION FOR RUSSIA’ to find Tony, the Vampire Squid and Genscher newly and happily appointed to paid positions in connection with the proposed TANAP pipeline from Azerbaijan to Europe via Turkey.

  158. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    17 Jul, 2014 - 2:02 pm

    Beyond-risible excuses department:

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.605586

    Yes, the reason Hamas rejected the truce proposal was not that it was prepared by Sisi (Hammer of the Muslim Brotherhood) Bibi (Shoot First and Ask Questions Never) and Toni (Y’know, Guys, Israel’s Really Cool) and as far as anyone can tell, an utter stitch-up which did not begin to address Palestinian concerns. No. It was all Turkey and Qatar’s fault.

    Brilliant. This from Liebermann (Let’s Invade Gaza). Who, it seems, was as much against any truce as the Hamas leadership…

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/liberman-calls-to-retake-gaza-denounces-truce-efforts/

  159. doug scorgie

    17 Jul, 2014 - 2:15 pm

    Je
    16 Jul, 2014 – 7:30 pm

    “You’re a sick man.”

    And you’re a thick man Je.

    I was mocking Habbabkuk’s attitude to Palestinian children who get shot for throwing stones at Israeli soldiers.

  160. doug scorgie

    17 Jul, 2014 - 2:49 pm

    Resident Dissident

    16 Jul, 2014 – 9:23 pm

    “And where is all this concern for the Palestinians when they are being bombed and starved by Assad?”

    —————————————-

    All refugees should be protected from harm whether from Syrian forces or the rebels. You, ResDis, are only interested in supporting Israel.

    That is why you keep trying to deflect discussion of Israeli crimes.

    How did Palestinian refugees end up in Syria in the first place ResDis?

    Yes, they were driven out of Palestine by the Zionists in 1948.

    They and their descendants have the right of return under international law but Israel refuses that because it would water down the Jewishness of Israel.

  161. “Habbabreak is your friend here.”

    Oh I do use it, Ba’al. My (little) problem is that this Mac came with Chrome and Safari installed. I didn’t have Firefox for a long time. So I developed a habit of clicking on Chrome when I wanted a browser, and then I’d come here and realise I didn’t have Habbabreak at my disposal.

    As long as I’m in Firefox I’m fine. Habbabreak works a treat.

  162. Ba’al
    Completely agree with you that Israel’s military strength can be partly attributed to US money and technical expertise. Agree with you as well on the UN and the use of the US veto. Both these points raise the issue of the Israeli lobby in the US, and to a far lesser degree, the UK. However, since I think we will agree on that influence I don’t see the need to deal with it in depth.

    You may be correct that at this moment in time there is no desire among the Israeli government to accommodate a viable Palestinian state but that is the logical outcome of any peace deal, a peace deal which will have to come eventually. I think you are being somewhat disingenuous by claiming the Israelis are always responsible for the talks collapsing and subsequent moving of goalposts. I would also contest your assertion that nothing in the last decade has demonstrated Israel is willing to countenance a Palestinian state. A promising start was made, just within your timframe of the last decade, by Sharon through the removal of settlements in the Gaza Strip and West Bank. However since then there has been no movement on the part of the Israelis but what progress has there been from the Palestinian side?

    Both sides will need to negotiate. Yes, the Americans will have to play tough with Tel Aviv but they can’t remove their support completely, otherwise no more Israel. To the same extent the Palestinians and their supporters will need to realise that their Palestine, the one pre 1948, is gone and is not coming back. So either they realise they need to talk or Hamas and its successors can continue taking pot shots at Israelis and Israel can continue flattening Palestinian areas at will. Doesn’t seem like a terribly thought out plan.

    I don’t agree with your last point either, protesting the legitimacy of the state of Israel and its right to exist is a pointless endeavour, again for the sake of clarity I am not suggesting that protesting against the acts of Israel is pointless.
    I have offered up what I think requirements for a successful scenario are. What is your realistic credible version?

  163. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    17 Jul, 2014 - 3:44 pm

    …claiming the Israelis are always responsible for the talks collapsing…

    I didn’t. But each set of peace talks has been based on reduced concessions to the original inhabitants, from the previous set. It’s highly convenient for Israel to keep taking ground, and not at all for the Pals to keep giving it. I draw the logical conclusion, personally, but in fact I let that issue float.

    protesting the legitimacy of the state of Israel and its right to exist is a pointless endeavour,

    I wasn’t actually disputing that, either. Though it would be as well to bear the point in mind the next time someone, with a tragic history and a deed poll signed only by God, comes looking for a country to own.

  164. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    17 Jul, 2014 - 4:03 pm

    Oh, suggestions.
    US to pull all assistance until completion of project irrevocably under way. Sanctions by EU and US equally applied to either side in breach. Recognition of Hamas as at least legitimate party to all discussions as clearly stated corollary of cessation of rockets: intelligence re splinter groups still firing to be made available by Israel to Hamas as police authority in Gaza. On compliance with this all border controls with Gaza to be lifted, both by Egypt and Israel.

    Contiguous state on W. Bank, with corridor to Gaza. Israel, if not back to 1967 lines, back to nearest contiguous defensible positions. Possibly militarised zone beyond this, as militarised zone on Jordan/Dead Sea clearly offensive. Jerusalem or extension thereof as Palestinian capital, though I would optimistically try and find some other location. And fail.

    Oslo accords, or something like it. Remember?
    Wing of pork, anyone?

  165. How Long will Obama Support Israel’s Delusion?
    Mowing the Lawn in Gaza
    by JOHN FEFFER
    17th July 2014

    The Palestinians of Gaza are guilty of that new post-Cold War misdemeanor: voting while Muslim. The punishment for this crime has been eight years of economic hardship, international isolation, and periodic Israeli bombardments.

    Like the Algerians in 1990 and the Egyptians in 2012, Gazans went to the polls in 2006 and voted for the wrong party. Rather than supporting the secular choice, they cast their ballots for Hamas. Not all Palestinians are Muslim (6 percent or so are Christian). But by opting for the Islamic Resistance Movement—Hamas, for short—Gazans had effectively nullified their own ballots.

    It didn’t matter that the EU and other institutions declared the elections free and fair. The results were what mattered, and Israel’s judgment carried the day. Even though the newly elected government extended an olive branch to both Israel and the United States, the Israeli government didn’t consider Hamas a legitimate political actor.

    /..
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/07/17/mowing-the-lawn-in-gaza/

  166. Ba’al,

    I think we have exchanged more ideas on how to create soemthing workable than Blair has managed in the last six years.

  167. Three more Palestinian children have been killed today in Gaza in an Israeli air strike.
    Gaza crisis: New exchanges of fire after truce ends
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28356438

    ~~~

    Three charged over Palestinian Mohammad Abu Khdair murder
    One Jewish man and two youths have been charged by Israeli prosecutors with the murder of Palestinian teenager Mohammed Abu Khdair, the justice ministry says.

    The 29-year-old from the West Bank settlement of Adam and two 16-year-olds from the same family were not named.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/28347001

    The Israeli settlement known as Adam.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geva_Binyamin

  168. One more unbearable news item on a day of horror, death, destruction and killing.

    It goes on.

    Gaza Breaking news
    Israel starts ground offensive
    Israeli prime minister orders military to begin ground offensive in Gaza

    The poor people.

  169. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    17 Jul, 2014 - 9:50 pm

    Mr Scorgie

    “I was mocking Habbabkuk’s attitude to Palestinian children who get shot for throwing stones at Israeli soldiers.”
    _________________

    “my attitude to Palestinian children..etc” ? Chapter and verse please, Doug.

    When you tell whoppers, you tell big ones don’t you. :)

  170. Resident Dissident

    17 Jul, 2014 - 10:10 pm

    “All refugees should be protected from harm whether from Syrian forces or the rebels. You, ResDis, are only interested in supporting Israel. ”

    If you bother to look you will see I am happy to condemn abuses by Israel – and have already condemned their disproportionate action against Gaza.

    No one has yet answered the question as to why there is general silence when it comes to condemning Assad’s actions against PAlestinians.

  171. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    18 Jul, 2014 - 12:58 pm

    I think we have exchanged more ideas on how to create soemthing workable than Blair has managed in the last six years.

    Not hard, really…

    But what’s baffling me is this: Tony Blair, whose appointment by the Quartet was almost certainly through Bush’s influence, and probably by Blair’s request, must have been based on something for which Blair is ostensibly qualified. This could only have been the results achieved by his administration, building on better mens’ work before him, in Northern Ireland. It’s now well-known that he not only talked to the IRA but legitimised their existence, as well as secretly providing them with get-out-of-jail-free cards (and no doubt did this for the Unionists too, though that seems to be less of an issue with the media).

    Why, then, is Blair the great peacemaker ™ (rofl) going nowhere near Hamas, declining to recognise them as the legitimately elected government of Gaza, and in short following every instruction issued by Israel to the West to ignore and marginalise the only significant force in Palestinian politics?

    We have to assume he’s a crook and a stooge on this basis alone.

  172. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    18 Jul, 2014 - 1:46 pm

  173. Would you prefer Turkey as a mediator? Or how about the Vatican? Here’s some more possibilities: The UN secretary-general, Jordan, South Africa, India, Ghana, Brazil, Malta.

  174. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    20 Jul, 2014 - 3:34 pm

    Any mediator is probably useless. History is clear on this point. As soon as negotiations approach a possible fair resolution,they are terminated, and Israel continues to pursue its policy of land theft and settlement building – clearly intending that any future attempts at mediation will have even less to work with. Two conditions have not yet been explored, and without them, there is no hope whatever. First, as much external pressure must be applied as consistently to the Israelis as to the Palestinians. IOW, the US must cease to underwrite the Israeli military budget. and to provide trade concessions which are not available to Palestinians in the occupied territories. Second, Hamas must be included in all talks and negotiations. (Northern Ireland would be alight to this day if the IRA had remained outside the discussion).

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