Yes Scotland Meetings

by craig on August 14, 2014 10:33 am in Uncategorized

Confirmed speaking dates at the moment are
26 August St Andrews
28 August Insch
29 August Dundee
30 August Cupar, Fife

I will post details of times and venues shortly – these are all evening events. I am still open to invitations on dates around these, and indeed any daytime events. Don’t mind dashing all over the place. A number are in the pipeline already. Contact me using the button at top of page.

Have been rather unwell the last couple of days, so please forgive lack of regular posts. BBC Hardtalk interview with Anders Fogh Rasmussen of NATO made me feel much worse. Totally incapable of acknowledging the disasters NATO and NATO members have inflicted on the world since the collapse of the Soviet Union – and the BBC totally incapable of serious questioning on the point.

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818 Comments

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  1. Uzbek in the UK

    14 Aug, 2014 - 11:02 am

    Get well Mr Murray. I just hope that Independent Scotland does not disappoint you as LibDems done after the election. Even the best of ideas can be completely wasted under wrong leadership.

    I have different opinion about NATO. To me raise of Russia was only matter of time (judging from historical prospective). Those who thought and think that Russia can be integrated into European security, making one great judgmental mistake. Russia was forced to be European (culture wise) by their tsars but have always remained different. It has specific identity based on various culture mixes which had always viewed Europe as a threat. It will take much more than disappearance of NATO to change Russian attitude towards Europe.

  2. Why do you bother? How many years have you lived in Scotland? Do you have any connection with real Scots? You’re as Scottish as Tony Blair (but he’s not a failed man).

  3. nevermind, it will happen anyway

    14 Aug, 2014 - 11:15 am

    From Kunt to Kant in two small steps. get well soon Craig, as for the BBC, why do you bother with them and why is the yes campaign nor looking for other, less biased broadcasters to cover the last few weeks before the referendum?

  4. Craig,

    You might want to change the order of the words in your self-description at the top – it could be construed as saying that you are a former human rights activist.

    Get well and stay well, Craig.

  5. Kant,

    Craig bothers because he is a decent bloke. Why do you bother? I’m guessing you are junior PR scum. Go copy write a breakfast cereal feature.

  6. Totally incapable of acknowledging the disasters NATO and NATO members have inflicted on the world since the collapse of the Soviet Union – and the BBC totally incapable of serious questioning on the point.

    Craig you understand the implication of the Monopoly of Violence the rest of the world knows as NATO. A useless and dangerous organisation that has long past its sell by date, yet those engaged in earning a tidy living out of the sale of the “kinetic produce” and ancillary services are intent on keeping this organisation going.

    Euro zone economy grinds to halt even before Russia sanctions bite

    As we debate the German economy has dipped into the negative growth territory, and as you would agree any growth levels of below 0.07 percent used to be classified as depression and considering the German -0.02 growth that is going below zero ie contracting and the German industry is shrinking, combined with the French growth of 0 percent are not being considered as “depression” but on the BBC the pundit was adamant that the good weather in Germany had got the building work done at a faster pace. Kind of Germans ate their snacks far too early story!

    Fact that UK economy is reliant on EU economy, and to find the UK customers penniless and in trouble, is further illustrated by the BoE two step that Mark Carney is engaged in.

    You have every right to feel unwell, it seems the world has gone mad, and sanity has left the Planet Earth when it comes to foreign policy of the USUK.

  7. Cheer up Craig, you’re doing a good job!

  8. Yes get well Craig and look after yourself. Don’t overdo things.

  9. I wish you good health, Craig.

  10. I wish there was a way for English people to declare independence from the UK political establishment!

  11. @Merlin

    There are already parties like the Yorkshire Party and I believe there is one in Cornwall/Kernow as well. It took decades to get even devolution here in Scotland despite ‘Home Rule’ having been mooted first in the mid 19thC (wars kept getting in the way). Just think, us Scots could be as disgusted by our dyed in the wool politicians as you are.

    Organise, agitate, form a political party but be prepared for the fight to be long, hard and at times dispiriting. Ask Plaid Cymru and the SNP for advice. There are no quick fixes, apart from a revolution and I can’t see that either happening or being allowed to happen, the security state will see to that.

    In the short term you will have the 2017 Euro In/Out referendum to win to stop rUK becoming even more Little Englander and economically depressed.

    You could keep agitating for properly proportional elections for Wastemonster, which AV wasn’t. May want to wait until after 2017 for that and seeing what the environment after Scotland becomes Independent is like. Another potential fly in such ointments will inevitably be Liz the 1st and 2nd of Scotland and England croaking. This will usher in an orgy of Nationalism and ‘we must preserve as much of the past as possible’ which is always code for repression of new ideas.

    Or move up to iScotland. We need people. The weather really isn’t that bad, unless you live on the West Coast ;-) and the people are much friendlier.

  12. Uzbek in the UK

    14 Aug, 2014 - 3:18 pm

    Merlin

    What makes you think that English political establishment will be better than UK political establishment? In many post colonial independent states this hope (of having better people running their country) have turned out to be harsh. It turned out it was just about elites concentrating resources in their hands rather than sharing them with whoever foreign.

    I am not suggesting that independence is bad thing (I am actually very supportive of self determination) BUT hopes of better establishment/government quite often does not materialise.

  13. Republicofscotland

    14 Aug, 2014 - 3:32 pm

    Craig, hope you haven’t been poked in the leg by some man brandishing an umbrella, have you?, anyway hope you feel better soon, says I with a worrying image, of Mr Litvinenko in my mind as I post this comment.

  14. O/T

    Harry Webb’s mansion in Sunningdales has been searched (officially), did Jenner rat him out?

  15. Republicofscotland

    14 Aug, 2014 - 3:39 pm

    Well tonight on BBC news Scotland at 6.30pm its Alistair Darling turn to be grilled by Jackie Bird, if that’s the right word. Jackie who’s only claim to mediocre fame was wearing a rather curtain like, garish dress, come top, at a Hogmanay show a few years back.

    Knowing the BBC and Jackie Bird I doubt very much if Alistair Darling will be on the wrong end of a quizzing. In fact its more than likely Mr Darling will have a uncluttered dais, to spew his false union rhetoric.

  16. Republicofscotland

    14 Aug, 2014 - 3:58 pm

    @Kant 11:09.

    That’s not very nice now is it Kant, you’re acting like a right Kant, aren’t you, now if you’d compared, Cameron, Brown, Jimmy Hood or even Johann Lamont with Blair or as he’s better know B-liar, with regards to “Scottishness” we may have taken you more seriously, as it is well, Kant, we must disregard your punchinello like remark, unless of course,you’re Kelvin Mackenzie in disguise.

  17. US, NATO and Israel united against Islam

    Yasmina Haifi, a project leader at the ministry’s National Cyber Security Center, posted on Twitter: “ISIS has nothing to do with Islam. It’s part of a plan by Zionist who are deliberately trying to blacken Islam’s name.”

    http://rehmat1.com/2014/08/14/dutch-official-isis-is-a-zionist-plot-to-demonize-islam/

  18. Uzbek in the UK

    14 Aug, 2014 - 4:10 pm

    Rehmat

    One only need to dig little dipper and look at the Vahobi movement. Although, that time it was not much about discrediting Islam as much about struggle between European powers and Ottoman Turkey.

    Good Muslims of course will turn their face from ISIS, some (like you suggested) will try to exploit them against West/Israel, and only very few will look at the very root of the issue.

  19. Uzbek in the UK.

    It is the terrible state of the current dominant political establishment I would like to be liberated from, not from the UK as such. There is a faint illusion of democratic choice but seemingly nothing of the kind in reality.

  20. Is there a single Scotch person who was genuinely in the no or undecided camp who has been persuaded to vote yes by the blogging of Craig Murray, an Englishman born and bred, living in England whose sole known paid employment was as an employee of the United Kingdom. If so, perhaps they will tell us why.

    Or is the whole point of this blog to persuade sensible Scots that only truly crazy people are for busting up the UK so that Scotland can become an entirely insignificant pawn of the undemocratic EC and NATO to which it would undoubtedly come to belong after a vote for independence?

  21. Last sentence: Should be EU, not EC.

  22. Canspeccy: for me it was the suggestion that No voters were Zionists who supported bombing Gaza and were also sympathisers with the Orange Order and sectarian violence. After those revelations my concerns about currency and fiscal matters just faded to insignificance.

  23. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    14 Aug, 2014 - 5:29 pm

    Mary

    I know you deplore word play on the word “cock” and have sometimes castigates me for it, so I was wondering if you had anything to say about the word play on the word “cunt” (cf at 11h15 – Nevermind, and at 15h58 – Republicofscotland)?

  24. Canspeccy

    Paid employment

    Oh I also worked as

    Games Room Attendant Aviemore Centre 1974-77
    Barman Badenoch Hotel Aviemore 1977
    Underwriting clerk Guardian Royal Exchange St Andrews Square Edinburgh 1978-9
    Assistant manager Carrbridge Hotel Carrbridge 1980
    President Dundee University Students Association 1982-4

    Before moving to London on joining the FCO

    Indeed I was born in Norfolk. My father, Robert Cameron Brunton Murray was born in Johnstone Terrace, Edinburgh right next to the castle. He was posted to Norfolk in the RAF where he met my mum. That is why I was born in Norfolk.

    Whether you consider me a Scot or not is of no interest to me. I consider myself a Scot and that is what matters. I shall certainly be entitled to a Scottish passport post independence.

  25. Whether you consider me a Scot or not is of no interest to me. I consider myself a Scot and that is what matters. I shall certainly be entitled to a Scottish passport post independence.

    Good for you, you are far too magnanimous, and prepared to answer that odious canspeccy whose vomitus white supremacist drivel finds the independence of Scotland as a threat to the current dreams of the zionist scum , thus the overtures and the insults.

  26. Barman Badenoch Hotel Aviemore 1977

    The Badenoch hotel, Aviemore. Good God, what a hideous structure in the midst of the Highlands.

    There was nothing like that in Aviemore the year I traversed the Lairig Ghru (’56). I hope when you become a minister in the Scotch government you’ll make sure the monstrosity is torn down and replaced by something in decent Scotch granite. If so, I’d think about applying for a visa and re-visiting the place provided that I’m still fit enough to scale a Grampian or two.

  27. Fascinating, Fedup, you apparently advocate the break-up of the UK to satisfy the nationalist ambitions of the Scots while designating as exponents of “white supremacist drivel” those who oppose the genocide of the English through suppression of indigenous fertility through state instruction in non-reproductive sex combined with mass immigration of philoprogenitive aliens with an alien culture and, in the case of many, a settler mentality.

    Some who comment here certainly think strangely. But then one wonders about some of them whether they could pass a Turing test.

  28. @MJ

    for me it was the suggestion that No voters were Zionists who supported bombing Gaza and were also sympathisers with the Orange Order and sectarian violence.

    So you think that you think that those who oppose the breakup of the UK are Zionists, intent on reigniting sectarian violence in Ulster? How strange!

    And the thing is, even is Scotland separates you’ll still have Scotch Zionists for Ian Paisley, so how will independence help in any way?

    But at heart, admit it, it’s the promise of an extra fifty quid a week from Scotch Oil that really motivates you; although the reality will be sadly disappointing since by the time the Scotch government has set up it’s foreign ministry to accommodate Craig and others and all the other departments it will need the extra fifty quid will already be spoken for — while it lasts, which is not long as the oil revenue is in irreversible and rapid decline.

  29. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    14 Aug, 2014 - 7:17 pm

    MJ

    “Canspeccy: for me it was the suggestion that No voters were Zionists who supported bombing Gaza and were also sympathisers with the Orange Order and sectarian violence. After those revelations my concerns about currency and fiscal matters just faded to insignificance.”
    ___________________

    MJ, I think I can help.

    Just as the medical condition of paranoia by definition has no fixed “boundaries” or “frontiers”, so certain commenters on here are unable to separate Scottish independence No voters, Zionism, the Orange Order, “fascism” in Ukraine and so on; in their minds, these are all inter-connected manifestations of an all-encompassing conspiracy against ….what?

  30. Republicofscotland

    14 Aug, 2014 - 7:20 pm

    Couldn’t believe my ears, when on the STV news at 6pm, Professor Ronald MacDonald claimed that Scottish Independence would cause the stockmarket to CRASH!!!!.

    I know Professor MacDonald, is a supporter of Better Together but,this is dangerous scaremongering at its worst.

  31. Market is always crashing – its not a one way street or we would all be wealthy beyond our dreams. Market will be interesting to watch before the vote though to see if it factors a yes vote in and if so how.

    Is there an index of listed of Scottish companies?

  32. CanSpeccy: I am English. I was being a little ironic. OK, a lot.

  33. Fascinating, Fedup, you apparently advocate the break-up of the UK

    1- for an emigrant to Canada, you seem to be far too preoccupied with UK.

    2- Scotland was stolen from the Scots, and it is about time the Scots were left to be the owners of their own domain, and stopped being tenants on the land that is rightly theirs.

    3- What has “break up of UK” has to do with you?

    4- “genocide” your o so emotive, and shrill screams masks the reality that you may not be so “white”, in fact I question yet again your ancestry, and I reiterate until such a time that you have not posted your genetic markers on your “blog” you have no right to call yourself “white”! Interlopers the likes of you are a plenty, causing the shit storm out there, for their own nefarious purposes.

  34. Couldn’t believe my ears, when on the STV news at 6pm, Professor Ronald MacDonald claimed that Scottish Independence would cause the stockmarket to CRASH …this is dangerous scaremongering at its worst.

    Oh, I don’t think so. One could think up much scarier nonsense. For example, that Scotch independence will lead to a bloodbath, as MJ’s Zionist Paisleyites launch a violent revanchist movement. Or many other paranoid fantasies.

    The thing is, though, what good reasons are their for Scotch independence as opposed to a sensible program for UK-wide devolution of powers? As an independent country, Scotland will have about as much independence and freedom of action in the international sphere as Latvia or Lithuania, and certainly less than Poland, a country seemingly totally in the grip of MJ’s Zionist globalist imperialists.

    Another question that those on both sides of the debate should consider is what means, if any, exist to rid the UK or its component independent parts of the globalist imperialist and money-power incubus, that owns the so-called democratic process to insure that you have a choice of two or three parties but only one policy.

  35. “Scotland was stolen from the Scots”

    LOL.

    Maybe, instead of that little numerical test, posters should be required to answer simply history questions. It would eliminate some of the rubbish posted here.

  36. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    14 Aug, 2014 - 7:42 pm

    Craig (and possibly others)

    “Whether you consider me a Scot or not is of no interest to me. I consider myself a Scot and that is what matters. I shall certainly be entitled to a Scottish passport post independence.”
    ____________________________

    I note the first two sentences and have no comments but the third sentence has aroused my curiosity.

    Has the SNP pronounced on the criteria for Scottish citizenship and, therefore, passports? Can you or anyone enlighten me – referral to an authorised source would do.

    For new births, will lex solis or lex sanguinis or a combination of the two apply? For those already alive, will it be sufficient to acquire citizenship – as is already the case with Ireland, for example – to prove that a parent or even grand parent – was “Scottish” (however being “Scottish” is defined)?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Following on from that: if you are sure that you will be considered “Scottish” despite having been born in England and having lived for most of your life in England and elsewhere, shouldn’t you be entitled to vote in the forthcoming referendum? If not, why not?

  37. @Fedup

    “genocide” your o so emotive, and shrill screams masks the reality that you may not be so “white”

    What has my color got to do with the fact that the indigenous people of England are being displaced by immigrants.

    The advocates of genocide seem to hate being identified as such. I wonder why?

    But if you really want to know, I am pink with green stripes — and proud of it.

  38. Republicofscotland

    14 Aug, 2014 - 7:46 pm

    @Fool.

    Re your comment 7.33pm.

    Markets crashing that may well be the case but, Professor MacDonald is inciting economic panic before the vote has taken place, they’re could and possibly will be a drop in certain share prices, but to say on a prime time news programme, that Scottish independence will cause the stock market to CRASH!!!!!, is nothing more than irresponsible.

  39. @MJ

    I am English. I was being a little ironic. OK, a lot.

    Ah, I should have grasped that, I suppose. But it seemed a plausible belief, given the context.

  40. What has my color got to do with the fact that the indigenous people of England are being displaced by immigrants.

    Clearly you are not “white” and as such you have no right to talk about the “white’s problems” to be more clear the white peoples problems are none of your business.

    As an emigrant to Canada you have no room to talk about other immigrants, after all you are sitting there in Inuit lands and wax lyrical about “immigrants” ………

    I put this to you again you are an interloper stirring hatred and disharmony for your own nefarious purposes.

  41. City wide-boys not buying other city wide-boys’ dodgy shares, other’s caught holding armfuls of worthless junk, a result! Without their bonuses for hurt-free risk-taking, some might have to let a couple of Ferraris go –sign me up for some of that fun. If they’re no longer gambling with other people’s money, what’s not to like, it seems like a good thing, a bonus for all. If you see Sid, slap him, tell him Babylon is down fifty points and falling.

  42. @R of S

    but to say on a prime time news programme, that Scottish independence will cause the stock market to CRASH!!!!!, is nothing more than irresponsible.

    Oh come’n. Don’t you read anything. There are folks predicting a stock market crash every day of the week. If such comments had the slightest effect you’d be able to pick-up shares in Rolls Royce or BP for pennies right now.

    What’s remarkable is the this Professor MacDonald is so lacking in imagination that he cannot come up with a better scare story. To help him out, here are some better ideas:

    1. England, in a fit of nationalistic resentment, will impose vicious economic sanctions on an independent Scotland including bans on the import of Scotch lamb, cabbages, oats, and people.

    2. An independent Scotland will be required by NATO to send a Highland Regiment to Poland in preparation for early action against Russia.

    3. In England, there will be a Nazi coupe engineered by Fuck-the-EU Nuland and Nick Griffin will launch a genocidal campaign aimed at driving all the Scots in England back to Scotland.

  43. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    14 Aug, 2014 - 8:05 pm

    And another two questions on the “nuts and bolts”.

    The first is on the civil service.

    An independent Scotland will be responsible for all functions of government and not only for those which have already been devolved and for which civil service structures already exist in Edinburgh; accordingly, administrative structures will need to be created for govt functions such as foreign and overseas development policy, many of the functions currently exercised by the Treasury for the UK as a whole, Revenue and Customs and so on.

    On the assumption that most of the civil servants (whether “Scottish” or not) currently administering the govt departments in question in Whitehall would not, for a variety of reasons, wish to transfer to the new Scottish administrative structures and move from London to Scotland, would this mean that an independent Scotland bee hiring lots of new civil servants? Has any quantification of likely needs and costs been done by the SNP or anyone else?

    The second question concerns civil servants and language, and is based on the assumption that Scottish Gaelic will be the second official language of Scotland (cf. the the republic of Ireland).

    Will the civil servants servicing the new purely “national” functions of an independent Scotland – eg, the Scottish Foreign Office, the Scottish “Treasury” – be required to be able to operate in Scottish Gaelic as well as in English (again,cf.the Republic of Ireland and also Canada)? Will civil servants exercising functions which have both a national and local dimension – eg, social services,, education) be likewise be required to be able to operate in both Scottish Gaelic and English?

    I could imagine that

  44. @Fedup: you again you are an interloper stirring hatred and disharmony for your own nefarious purposes.

    Yes. Global takeover by the pink and greens, that is our nefarious goal.

    But we are for human diversity, hence our insistence on a homeland for every race. Scotland for the Scotch, England for the English, Canada for the indigenous peoples — although Canada, being 30 times the size of the UK, should, after resolving the claims of the indigenous peoples, still have room for its 35 million immigrants.

  45. Republicofscotland

    14 Aug, 2014 - 8:09 pm

    @Canspeccy.

    Re your comment 7.40pm

    What good reason is there for Scottish independence, well for one,it will remove one layer of needless and very expense government, namely Westminster.

    We will also remove Trident from Scotland with independence, which is earmarked to be replaced by the an upgraded version costing around £100 billion pounds, of which I think Scotland share is close to £700 million pounds.

    Independence will allow monies raised in Scotland to stay in Scotland, and who better to decide who, and where to spend the monies, than the Scottish people themselves.

    There are many other reason why Scots want independence but I won’t go into them all, as for your claim Scotland won’t truly be independent I agree, with regards to trade and commerce, no country is truly independent.

    The UK under successive governments has amassed an astonishing amount of debt to the sum of £1.3 trillon pounds, and incredible amount, Scotland has a wealth of natural resources including oil, all other oil producing countries have invested in a future fund by selling a small amount of oil/gas and storing it in a fund, except the UK, under Westminster, who after 40 years of mismanaging Scotland’s wealth, have nothing in a fund, which would have been handy post the 2008 crash.

    No Scots will be far better off managing their own resources, and all other affairs to boot.

  46. If you see Sid, slap him

    Ii I come across him, I will hospitalise that bastard and that is no threat but a solemn promise.

    Non of the banksters issuing money based on their debtors have so far been squeezed whilst the rest of the world has paid through the nose for their gambling addictions.

    The notion of physicists devising algorithms and quantum modelling the “markets” has translated into supercomputers trading worthless junk over and again in nanoseconds, resulting in casino rules in Vegas to appear fair, and judicial returns on the capital deployed by the punters!

  47. Republicofscotland

    14 Aug, 2014 - 8:17 pm

    @CanSpeccy.

    Re your comment 8.01

    What vivid imagination you have, speculation is one thing, inciting panic in a country about to take a major step with regards to independence is another,you don’t take into account that Professor MacDonald’s comment isn’t aimed at big business, they’re shrewd enough to know whats what, no the comment is aimed at the voting masses, to instil fear.

    You seem to have missed the whole point of the statement.

  48. Global takeover by the pink and greens, that is our nefarious goal.

    At last you are owning up to the intent for “global domination”, albeit in a tangential and obscure (make it sound ridiculous clause) fashion.

    Cease and desist from splattering your emotive unconscious drivel for the sake of creating “race riots” for your own ends; “global domination”.

    still have room for its 35 million immigrants.

    Funny how it is not diversity when you and the likes of you are bigging it up there in Canada. Further, you seem to magnanimously decide how Indigenous Canadians should be dividing their lands? (global domination begins at home).

  49. @R of S:
    …Scottish independence, … will remove one layer of needless and very expense government, namely Westminster.

    And replace it with a parallel government of equal complexity, if not greater (see Habby, above) and comparable cost.

    We will also remove Trident from Scotland

    Good luck with that, lad. You think Scotland separated from England will somehow achieve independence of NATO, the US Empire, or the money power?

    … which is earmarked to be replaced by the an upgraded version costing around £100 billion pounds, of which I think Scotland share is close to £700 million pounds.

    Wow, just zero point 7 percent of the total cost and you bitch about it!

    The UK under successive governments has amassed an astonishing amount of debt to the sum of £1.3 trillon pounds, and incredible amount

    Not incredible at all. I can certainly cred it. It’s typical for a European state, although much lower than Ireland or Greece or some other EU trivialities.

    But in any case, it’s as much your debt, lad, as that of any other citizen of the UK, and as such you’ll have your share of it. And of course it was all put to good use. Maternity hospitals to service the immigrant majorities of London, Leicester, Luton, etc. and to educate the little dears according to their Muslim or other culture, etc., not to mention all the other infrastructure that an expansion of UK population through mass immigration, under the direction of Scotch prime ministers, has necessitated: roads, universities, water systems, sewage treatment, etc., etc.

    No, all that borrowed money was well spent.

    Scotland has a wealth of natural resources including oil…

    Nearly all gone. Sorry.

  50. @ Fedup:

    Re: Global takeover by the pink and greens, that is our nefarious goal.

    At last you are owning up to the intent for “global domination”

    Ha! I’m getting it at last. This entire blog is an exercise in far-fetched irony.

    Very good. And good luck with the extra 35 million immigrants. Just hope you can speak Urdu, Hausa, Igbo, or whatever is destined to become the common currency of England.

  51. CanSpeccy:

    “But it seemed a plausible belief, given the context”

    It wouldn’t be all that ironic otherwise. I take it you’re N American.

  52. An Oil-Fund, it wouldn’t have been handy after the 2008 crash, any oil-fund is not, repeat not for bailing out irresponsible crooked bankers, creating money out of thin air then lending it at interest to wannabee Rachmanite Landlords of the box-room conversion, an oil fund prevents excessive currency outflows for overseas speculation and by keeping money tight, counters inflation and keeps our export prices lower for buyers, which are the conditions productive manufacture needs, whilst using the fund to finance profitable industrial and social development, and encourage domestic self-sufficiency. All that was necessary then in 2008 was to protect deposits and jail the thieves, Iceland done the right thing. Westminster has done possibly the worst, bailed them out, gave them their (our) next stake for the inevitable next coming bubble to burst. The last Labour Prime Minister who understood ecomomics was Harold Wilson and the Last Tory one was Harold MacMillan. Heath and Thatcher were idiot clowns, economic innumerates but Gordon Brown was in way over his head helping Marion White present STV’s What’s Your Problem.

  53. Yes, but if you really want to counter ” Dutch disease” you need to invest outside your currency area (as far as I know the Norwegian Fund is forbidden to invest in Norway for just that reason).

  54. Far from gone Canspeccy
    http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/clair-ridge-and-scotlands-new-oil-boom/
    New field , new technology and you are using old argument dissed by the Mc Crone Report
    Get up to date son

  55. Republicofscotland

    14 Aug, 2014 - 8:54 pm

    @CanSpeccy.

    Re your comment 8.29pm

    Why would Scotland replace Westminster with a government of equally complexity, we won’t Scotland doesn’t have an upper house like Westminster’s House of Lords with over 800 Lords who receive £300 quid a day just to show up and fall asleep on the red benches, tell me how much does that come to per year?. China’s parliament aside Westminster is the most top heavy government in the world, I’m afraid you haven’t done your homework, have you.

    Speaking of homework Scotland voted to remain in NATO, do pay attention, as for Trident, it already being touted that Devenport in England will be Trident’s new home in the future. Scotland needs Faslane for its own navy so Trident WILL have to go.

    As for your other remarks I can think of many other more important things to spend £700 million pounds on than WMD’s.

    As for the £1.3 trillion pounds being as much Scotland’s debt as the Westminster’s wrong again we didn’t choose what to spend the monies on, like illegal wars in Iraq or Afghanistan, nor Trident or Polaris missiles, nor nuclear submarines, we, Scotland, just handed over the cash, and received a block grant back which was ALWAYS smaller than the cash we handed over.

    You don’t seem to have grasp of UK politics, I take it you’re not from these islands? as for the oil, if you’d bothered to do your home work, again, you know the Clair Ridge field is coming online in 2016, why else would David Cameron covertly fly to Shetland to speak to BP?.the oilfield holds over 640 million barrels of oil, don’t believe me?.

    Here you go knock yourself out.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxZlMLmbgQ4&feature=youtu.be

  56. Republicofscotland

    14 Aug, 2014 - 9:01 pm

    @Tom.
    Re your comment 8.38

    I agree, I didn’t propose that an oil fund should be used to bail out fatcat bankers,but it should be used to help those further down the chain, who’ve no golden parachute, the poor the sick the needy and those who need it most, not those who caused it.

    Also I agree Iceland did the right thing by jailing the bankers and letting the failed banks go under.

  57. @R of S
    As for the £1.3 trillion pounds being as much Scotland’s debt as the Westminster’s wrong again we didn’t choose what to spend the monies on, like illegal wars in Iraq or Afghanistan, nor Trident or Polaris missiles, nor nuclear submarines…

    All the crimes of New Labor were perpetrated under the leadership of the Scotch bastards Blair and Brown. As for not choosing what to spend the money on, you think the English had a choice? Don’t be daft. If it hadn’t been for all those stupid Scotch votes for New Labor there never would have been a Phony Blair government with its war crimes and it’s genocidal immigration policy.

    So don’t think, laddy, that you can just walk away and leave the debt to someone else to pay. You’l be on the hook for it as long as the English.

  58. Scotch oil bonanza:

    New field , new technology…

    LOL. Hope springs eternal.

    Why do you think oil shares are slipping while oil prices are still over $100 dollars? Its because the new tech costs a fortune with the result that yields per dollar invested are falling. Exxon is said to be spending $700 million on one well in the Russian Arctic. So yes, Scotland’s oil is inexhaustible, but as one Arab said, the oil age will not end because we run out of oil any more than the stone age ended because we ran out of stones, which is to say the Scotch oil boom is over.

  59. “…why else would David Cameron covertly fly to Shetland to speak to BP?.”

    He didn’t, it was in all the papers.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/10985129/David-Cameron-becomes-first-prime-minister-to-visit-Shetland-in-34-years.html

    It was Salmond who went there in secret and in disguise.

  60. I take it you’re N American.

    My passport says I’m British and, according to Habbabkuk’s sanguinity test, I’m Scotch too — a remote relation of Hardy, the first Scotch King.

  61. “My passport says I’m British”

    I think you’re telling me that yes, you’re N American.

  62. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    14 Aug, 2014 - 9:30 pm

    CabSpeccy

    “…according to Habbabkuk’s sanguinity test,”
    _______________

    Not mine, old boy. Lex sanguinis has been around for a lot longer than I have.

  63. Israel would not survive without weapons

    You don’t say rabbi.

    Israel would not survive as a nation if it had to lay down its weapons, the Chief Rabbi, Ephraim Mirvis, has insisted.

    He said that while the British Jewish community was “filled with pain” over the loss of life in Gaza, Israel was “understandably and justifiably” defending itself from Hamas rocket attacks.

    So the parasitic supremacist creed justifies shooting fish in the barrel, as the zionist scum were attacking Gaza; a concentration camp that has been under a regimen of medieval siege by land, sea, and air, for the last eight years. This was in a bid to satiate the zionist scum’s blood-lust, in their pursuit of even more stolen lands and more Palestinians killed maimed and cleansed, zionistan cannot survive without weapons, and a constant stream of murdered Palestinians blood.

  64. Republicofscotland

    14 Aug, 2014 - 9:31 pm

    @CanSpeccy.

    Re your comment 9.05

    The Holyrood government that’s in power just now who propose independence,the SNP, voted strongly against any attack or invasion of Iraq, lets make that crystal clear, they also vote no to the invasion of Afghanistan. As for Brown and Blair, they may be Scottish of birth but they carried out their atrocities at Westminster, Brown also raided the pension pot, and sold UK gold at an all time low price, he and Alistair Darling, never saw the 2008 crash coming . As for Blair his deeds of destruction are well documented.

    As for the English people not having a choice as where the monies were spent, this statement of yours answers the case for Scottish independence, the people of England are stuck with a corrupt Westminster government, it however doesn’t mean Scots have to as well.

    Now speaking of the national debt, the UK government have said in a round about way that Scotland won’t obtain any of the assets, ergo it stands to reasons no assets no debt.

    But again you haven’t done your homework, and I’ll tell you why, if you did you’d know that the UK government has guaranteed to pay the UK debt regardless of the independence outcome. Therefore how can Scotland be held responsible for a debt it doesn’t owe.

    This action shows the desperation of the UK government when twice in the past year alone the UK’s credit rating has been lowered from the AAA rating.

    Finally the Scottish government wishes to take its share of the debt, along with its share of the assets, a reasonable and fair request.

  65. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    14 Aug, 2014 - 9:32 pm

    Fred

    “It was Salmond who went there in secret and in disguise.”
    ____________________

    The mind boggles. I’m happy to believe you, but do you have details?

  66. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    14 Aug, 2014 - 9:36 pm

    Fedup

    “Israel would not survive without weapons

    You don’t say rabbi.”
    ________________

    I’m afraid he does, Fedup. As is implied by the founding charter of Hamas as well.

  67. As is implied by the founding charter of Hamas as well.

    As per conventions, and treaties, resistance to occupation is an inalienable right of the nations under the occupation of enemy. Hamas are only defending their lands against the occupying and marauding zionist scum.

  68. According to the thread above, an independent Scotland will use Faslane for a Navy. I assume that it too will have weapons of some kind – if only for fisheries protection an customs enforcement.

  69. Republicofscotland

    14 Aug, 2014 - 9:47 pm

    @Fred.

    Re your comment at 9.11

    I have to agree with your point, to a point, David Cameron’s visit to Shetland, didn’t have its usual fanfare trumpet, that surrounds the press, on any of his visits.

    Re your second point I’ve no idea if Alex Salmond went to Shetland in disguise, if so please provide link, many thanks.

  70. As does Israel – recognized by the UN as a State in UNGA resolution 273 of 11 may 1949

  71. Republicofscotland

    14 Aug, 2014 - 9:56 pm

    @Tim.

    Re your comment 9.43pm

    Yes indeed the Scottish government propose to have naval ships, though I’ve read they’ll be more for protection than attack, and will have a multi-task remit, I assume guarding the rigs, and coastline along with patrolling our waters.

    Something quite similar to what Norway has at present, there’s no need for Scotland to have an aircraft carrier, though it would be something to have one (second hand) as a medical ship, sending it around the world, to carry out medical operations and procedures, in less fortunate countries.

    Now there’s a warship I ‘d happily wave off at Greenock.

  72. “The mind boggles. I’m happy to believe you, but do you have details?”

    It’s supposed to be secret, I shouldn’t really be telling you this, his disguise was ingenious.

    On the link I posted, look carefully at the photo, see the pony with short legs a fat belly and it’s eyes are too close together…

  73. As does Israel – recognized by the UN as a State in UNGA resolution 273 of 11 may 1949

    Don’t change name and start peddling the same nonsense. The border ambiguity, nuclear ambiguity, peace ambiguity, are all deployed by the Jewish supremacists and their parasitic supremacist networks from without zionistan, and all designed to cover up the most aggressive fascist, racist regime on the planet through seeking to justify the nonsense of “recognised by UN” what is the UN recognition?

    How come UN becomes relevant so far as the 1949 is concerned, and then it becomes irrelevant for the rest of the times? There again UN ambiguity, I forgot.

    Typical zionist scum blaming their victims for their suffering, and evidently the rest of the goyim cattle are not suppose to come to understand; the only aggressor in the Palestine equation are the zionsit scum, as they openly are admitting; without the flow of weapons and free money project zionistan is a dead duck.

  74. I think you’re telling me that yes, you’re N American.

    Frankly, I’m a little confused about my identity.

    My passport was issued by the UK, for which reason I stated that it stated that I am British. But then at one point in my career I swore undying allegiance to Queen Elizabeth, Queen of Canada. But according to “lex sanguinis,” I am apparently Scotch by virtue of a pure Highland Scotch grandmother — for which reason I am for Highlands independence from those lowland bastards in Edinburgh. We Highlanders, of course, will take all the oil.

    Unfortunately, the Scotch don’t understand genetics and thus only recognize patrilinearity, unlike the Jews who deem race to be a matter of mitochondrial DNA and thus of matrilinearity. Fortunately, I’m not a Scotch Jew, so I don’t have resolve the conflict over the correct means of racial identification.

  75. UN recognition was absolutely conditional on Palestinian refugees right of return and restitution. Which still stands and is not invalidated by events or later pronouncements.

  76. RoS:
    UK government has guaranteed to pay the UK debt regardless of the independence outcome. Therefore how can Scotland be held responsible for a debt it doesn’t owe.

    How. Just watch us, laddy. We’ve got nukes and you haven’t. So much for your mean rejection of a tiny share in the cost of Trident.

  77. Resident Dissident

    14 Aug, 2014 - 10:26 pm

    As does Israel – recognized by the UN as a State in UNGA resolution 273 of 11 may 1949

    Hi Tim – if you haven’t noticed yet you have entered a parallel universe where the ultimate arbiters of what does and doesn’t constitute international law and who is guilty under that law are not courts but the self selected Emonences. If their logic is circular it is because it is meant to be.

  78. Understood – but “knock down ginger” is still a fun game from time to time. Remember, if blogging threatened the system they would have abolished it (as some countries seem to try)

  79. Tony M – this is true, and might explain why Israel’s supporters seem more worried about what they call “lawfare” than they are about warfare. Firing rockets at them has only made things worse for everyone.

  80. Hi Tim – if you haven’t noticed yet you have entered a parallel universe where the ultimate arbiters of what does and doesn’t constitute international law and who is guilty under that law are not courts but the self selected Emonences. If their logic is circular it is because it is meant to be.

    Yeah a conversation is struck up, because goyim cattle are far too dumb to get the drift of it all, one entity talking to itself with the help of the not so secret profile management software, all these grants and aids paid to the zionist scum can afford to throw a bit of money around for the keyboard brigades.

    Circular arguments; now that is pot, kettle etc. “eminences” ie those goyim cattle who will not buy into the cock and bull yarns of the “land registry records” the rest of the world knows as “The Bible” that bequeaths the lands of Palestine to the sons of Abe. That is after he was caught by his Mrs, in trousers around his ankle situation giving some RE to the maid girl. Note Abe was a very modern chap and he was trousered despite his contemporaries wearing long skirts and no knickers.

    As Abe got the sharp end of the Mrs Abe’s tongue, he thought it out quickly and came up with the patrimony deal for her sons. Abe was saving his butt and he never thought that the poor Palestinian will pay for his little indiscretions, that had so upset Mrs Abe.

    UN general assembly which has since declared zionism is racism these days is an irrelevancy but seeing as goyim cattle cannot understand shorthand and figures then; hey what the heck UNGA resolution 273 of 11 may 1949, which was based on the UNGA 181 but who gives a rat’s butt what that was about?

    Evidently only the “master race” have access to these “UN” material, and goyim cattle are incapable of googling.

    However fact that the most aggressive fascist, racist, regime born of politics of Jewish supremacy, is raining death apartheid and ethnic cleansing and genocide on Palestininas is also explained away with the UN General Assembly that these days is of no relevance at all. As the latest mass murder of the Palestinians in Gaza proves.

  81. @Tony. Yes, spot on. Harold Wilson’s father was a bank manager. I never understood why he went out quietly, because I’m sure there was much more going on in the background than just a desire to retire at 60. I even remember exactly what I was doing when someone burst in and announced that he had resigned. In view of comments made on other threads about Callaghan, he must have been fuming over that “winter of discontent.

  82. Republicofscotland

    You don’t seem to have grasp of UK politics, I take it you’re not from these islands? as for the oil, if you’d bothered to do your home work, again, you know the Clair Ridge field is coming online in 2016, why else would David Cameron covertly fly to Shetland to speak to BP?.the oilfield holds over 640 million barrels of oil, don’t believe me?.

    640 million barrels of recoverable oil is approximately 8 days world supply. 40 billion barrels of oil have already been produced from the UK North Sea sector. Peak production from the new field extension (this is phase 3 development of the Clair Field which has been in production since 2005) is estimated in the video to be 100,000 barrels oil energy equivalent (which means includes gas also produced – converted to energy equivalent in barrels of oil) per day. That’s tiny compared to almost 5 million barrels oil equivalent per day that once was produced in in the UK sector at peak.

    While the new field extension is nice it isn’t any kind of game changer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clair_oilfield

  83. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    14 Aug, 2014 - 11:21 pm

    Peacewisher

    “@Tony. Yes, spot on. Harold Wilson’s father was a bank manager.”
    __________________

    I’m afraid you’re both spot-off.

    Harold Wilson’s father was an industrial chemist.

    Do you good people never check before you scribble?

  84. The Telegraph portrays ‘Bad’ Shimon Elliot as ‘cunning’ and Aangirfan is portraying my Holy Prophet May Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him as Jewish!

    If you can’t get the news to fit the facts, make it up.

    Canspeccy’s granny was Scottish and my grandmother was Jewish. What is it with these people who can only see the world in terms of lineage and not in terms of ideas?

    The Islamic State is just an extension of the Salafist nihilism that reduces the vastness of heart of the religion of Islam to a petty rulebook and a test of physical fitness.

    The Times of New York recently reproduced the instruction of our prophet SAW about the rights of Christians not to be judged for their behaviour and not to be prevented from their Christian form of worship by Muslims.

    Look at the vastness of heart of a true religion compared to the Female Genitalia Mutilation of the Islamic State.

    The Salafists twist the religious instruction to Muslims not to judge ( as per gospels ‘Judge not , lest ye be judged’ into a green light to ally themselves, as all the jihadists have done , with Quwata Amrikia/ USUKIS raw power.

    If one was to define humanity by ethnicity as CanSpeccy does or take the opposite meaning of your prophet’s SAW instruction as Salafism does, you can generate froth/scum like the impurities you get when smelting metal, or boiling jam.

    That scum we are informed by Allah in the Qur’an is part of the cleansing process. Fedup gets it, Speccy doesn’t. I welcome the vastness of human diversity and I welcome the vastness of human spirituality, both of them infinitely more interesting, amusing and joyful than the bigotry of racism and sectarianism.

  85. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    14 Aug, 2014 - 11:25 pm

    Fedup

    Your comments are just rants, aren’t they.

    Vulgar, hateful, badly-structured and badly-written bollocks.

    Get treatment or you’ll find yourself back inside.

  86. Fedup

    Your comments are just rants, aren’t they.

    Vulgar, hateful, badly-structured and badly-written bollocks.

    Get treatment or you’ll find yourself back inside.

    self-inflicted prophet you really would like to think so, the story of Abe has got you rattled has it? There again in your delusional state you are now divining about all manner of events and outcomes.

    Vulgar, you say, evidently your next complaint to G_d is already formulated.

    Vulgar is your incessant support of the zionist scum, vulgar is your unashamed imposition of your unwelcome interjections on this blog, vulgar is your relentless stalking of this blog.

  87. @Habby: I remember a TV documentary about him and there was certainly someone in his family who was a bank manager, and encouraged him in Economics.

    Fascinating alt-biography, with many contributions from contemporaries at:

    http://spartacus-educational.com/PRwilsonHa.htm

    (I didn’t know he was a suspected Russian spy… it seems rather unlikely!)

  88. Ben-American Fascist Flechette

    15 Aug, 2014 - 1:03 am

    are Scot’s as exercised about non-Scottish Worldwide issues? I suggest a link between the independence vote and worldwide independence. Just askin’

  89. Did anyone see this in ‘The Guardian’, 14 August?

    One of the world’s top economists has warned that an independent Scotland’s economy would crash within seven years if it tried to use sterling.

    Professor Ronald MacDonald, a currency expert who advises the International Monetary Fund and the European Central Bank, said the Scottish government’s plans to use sterling after a yes vote were fundamentally flawed, even if Alex Salmond’s proposals for a currency union were accepted by the UK. The Scottish economy would shrink by up to £100bn by 2023, MacDonald said.

    His intervention has reignited a simmering row over the first minister’s plans to share the pound after Mark Carney, the Bank of England governor, disclosed on Wednesday that the Bank was drawing up contingency plans to defend sterling and prop up Scotland’s finance sector in case of “currency flight” by depositors after a yes vote on 18 September.

    Salmond insisted on Thursday that Carney’s intervention underlined the case for a currency union. He accused the UK government and Labour of creating financial instability by repeatedly rejecting proposals for a currency union as a campaign tactic in the referendum.

    During ill-tempered exchanges in the Scottish parliament, Salmond cited evidence from Sir Donald MacKay, a former economic adviser to the UK government, that a currency union was “perfectly possible” and was in the UK’s long-term interests.

    Salmond said the pro-UK parties had already tried and failed to sow doubts about the health of industrial investment in Scotland and its employment rates. “Trying to generate instability in the financial markets will fail as well,” he said.

    MacDonald, the Adam Smith professor of political economy at the University of Glasgow and a globally recognised expert in oil-based economies, said any move to use sterling would expose Scotland to huge economic shocks because of its heavy reliance on North Sea oil revenues, but inability to set its own interest rates or control money supply.

    In a damning critique of Salmond’s proposals, MacDonald said that independence would immediately mean that Scotland became a petro-economy. That would leave it heavily exposed to higher prices in shops, wage rises, a significant trade deficit and increasingly expensive exports.

    Using IMF methodology, MacDonald said Scotland would face an annual deficit of 7% and would cut Scotland’s economic output by at least £30bn in a best case scenario, or up to £100bn in a more likely worst case scenario by about 2023. “Clearly this is very, very bad news,” he added.

    It would greatly increase pressure for public spending cuts and tax rises, with a future Scottish government forced to impose a punishing austerity regime to balance the books, or face the prospects of an IMF bail-out, similar to the ECB’s rescue of the Irish and Greek economies.

    MacDonald has been a currency adviser to banks, governments and oil rich states including Norway, but released his analysis through the anti-independence campaign run by Alistair Darling, Better Together.

    He insisted he had done so because Better Together had commissioned him, and would have been “very happy” to give the same advice to the Scottish government, and denied taking a partisan stance on the referendum.

    “If an independent Scotland had a separate [new] currency then I’m sure in the longer term it could survive and prosper,” MacDonald said. A separate currency “is the only tenable plan B, to be perfectly candid”.

    But the first minister and his government’s advisers were wrong to predict that a currency union would keep Scotland’s economy in lock-step with the far larger UK economy; they would quickly diverge, MacDonald said, even in a currency union.

    They were already different, he said. Excluding oil revenues, Scotland had an average trade deficit of 11% over the last 15 years, which became a trade surplus of 2.7% if a geographic share of North Sea oil was included.

    That meant that oil played “a massive role” in determining the optimal currency and exchange rate options for Scotland. “We become a net exporter of oil and that fundamentally changes the nature of the Scottish economy and particularly the relationship we have with the rest of the UK,” he said.

    A currency union, already vetoed by George Osborne, the chancellor, would be unsustainable because of the differences between the two competing economies, he said. “I don’t think it will last long. This will kick in on day one of independence. These relative price effects happen very quickly,” he said.

    If Scotland chose to use sterling without a formal agreement to have the Bank of England and the Treasury underwrite Scotland’s economy, that could provoke a massive crisis and require “severe austerity” to create the significant surplus needed by a Scottish chancellor to balance the books.

    Scotland’s manufacturing exports would soon become uncompetitive, because prices within Scotland would rise faster than in the UK. That would worsen if it chose to use sterling without a formal deal, with large parts of Scotland’s financial sector forced to move to London and investors withdrawing money from Scottish companies.

  90. @ Bird Shit:

    I welcome the vastness of human diversity

    Which means I want to mix everyone up so there’s no more diversity.

    Is this idiocy or what?

  91. As was mentioned on Wings Over Scotland, the bt uk gov TROLLS have stepped up a pace in recent days. Do NOT feed the trolls! The lies and scare mongering will get much worse, we must stay on task for a YES, counter the lies, for there are many, and stay positive. Only a no vote would spell any kind if disaster, it would be a disaster for Scotland.
    A YES is a real possibility and the no lot are getting desperate, but what have they got to lose? Why hold on to a union with such a dysfunctional basket case that is Scotchland? Unionists, just Let Scotland go, and with good grace, we will forgive, you, quite quickly! :-) )

  92. Habbabkuk,

    There you go again hasbara sockpuppet troll.

    Picking on Mary because you cant beat her arguments.

    You silly sad desperate troll.

    You are,as ever,an embarrassingly oafish tart Habbabkuk.

  93. That, in the event of independence, the Scottish government would consider either a currency union with England or the continued use of sterling without joint management with England, shows how clueless the Scottish government is and how unfit it is to run an independent country. Among the few advantages of independence is an independent currency, the exchange value of which is determined solely by the issuing country`s international competitiveness, rather than by that of the union as a whole. In the case of Scotland and England the idea of a currency union is particularly absurd since the size of the two economies and their profiles are so different.

    In fact, no one in this discussion has offered any sensible reason for Scotch independence. Republic of Scotland offers two reasons. First, to distance Scotland from the criminal government of the Scotchmen, Blair and Brown, aided by the Scotch adviser Alistair Campbell, a government that depended for its existence of the enthusiasm of the Scots for New Labor. Second, the illusory oil bonanza, the extra fifty quid a week that Scots think they`ll get once their shot of England.

    Obviously if the Scotch buggered up the government of Britain they`ll show just as much malice when left to their own devices in Scotland. In fact the history of pre-Union Scotland is one of endless warfare, treachery, and violence both internally and in Scotland`s relations with England. Why does anyone think things would be different for a newly independent Scotland. War hasn`t been abandoned as a means of settling petty disputes in Europe. Why then does anyone suppose that we will not see English tanks shelling the capital of an independent Scotland within a 100 years.

  94. It seems the basis of state governance in Plato and Aristotle is appreciation of virtue through moral persuasion. This enlightenment could be more easily realised through an independent self governing state.

    Why is all the talk on monetary outcomes of independence, so much contemptible emphasis when prudence should be at the base of any true environmentalist.- is that not what features most heavily with all this. We are all environmentalist to some degree as we are all in a state of being.

    Habba and Fed up. One in the same.

  95. Exit I was under the impression that ‘Ronald McDonald’ provided burgers and fries for the masses, served by unemployed graduates on zero hours contracts and earning a pittance.

    I was waiting for a friend yesterday who was in the supermarket. I saw several young women emerge with their shopping, all over 25 stone and wearing leggings!, eating packets of crisps and other junk as they pushed their trollies. A middle aged man who looked 9 mths pregnant and who was dangerously obese was eating a pasty.

    Next stop the diabetes clinics or A&E with their coronaries.

    A Prof was on television yesterday advocating a programme of gastric band operations to combat the rise in cases of diabetes type 2. Up to 300,000 people would qualify apparently. The BBC article below gives a figure of 850,000 people.

    Being overweight or obese ‘linked to 10 common cancers’
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-28779493

    More weight loss operations for diabetes
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-28246641

  96. Airdrieonian

    15 Aug, 2014 - 8:14 am

    Dearest Canspeccy

    Let me be the first to invite you out for a drink in an independent Scotland.
    We will do the famous “clockwork orange” pub crawl in Glasgow, where you could enthrall the local Scotch patrons with your thoughts on life. I bet you wouldn’t survive past Cowcaddens.

  97. The IDF are still going strong.

    In Occupied Palestine
    Zionism in practice – Israel’s Daily Toll on Palestinian Life, Limb, Liberty and Property
    24 hours to 8am
    11 August 2014

    51 air strikes – 9 attacks – 20 raids including home invasions – 8 dead (2 in West Bank + 6 in Gaza Strip) – 17 injured (6 in West Bank + 11 in Gaza Strip) – 4 acts of agricultural/economic sabotage – 25 taken prisoner – 9 detained – 110 restrictions of movement

    West Bank: Israeli Army shoots and kills 11-year-old boy

    West Bank: Israeli Army attack – 1 person killed – 1 woman and 2 children injured – families forced from their homes

    http://www.sapienspromise.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3225
    Acknowledgment to Leslie Bravery in NZ who keeps this log.

    Gaza: Israeli air strike kills 17-year-old youth

    275,000 people now made homeless in Gaza Strip

    Night peace disruption and/or home invasions in 13 towns and villages

  98. @Fedup “he was caught by his Mrs..”
    Not according to Genesis, they were just not lucky enough to conceive (at first), so she suggested using Hagar the slave as a surrogate. But Hagar got big-headed and said to Sarah ‘Na-na-na-na-na, I’m fertile & U aren’t.’ Sarah said to Hagar ‘Diss me, would you?’ And then gave her such a hard time that Hagar fled with her son. And the rest is history…

  99. CAN SOMEONE MAKE A LIST OF LATTER DAY “PARCEL OF ROGUES”?

    Such A Parcel Of Rogues In A Nation

    Fareweel to a’ our Scottish fame,
    Fareweel our ancient glory;
    Fareweel ev’n to the Scottish name,
    Sae fam’d in martial story.
    Now Sark rins over Solway sands,
    An’ Tweed rins to the ocean,
    To mark where England’s province stands-
    Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

    What force or guile could not subdue,
    Thro’ many warlike ages,
    Is wrought now by a coward few,
    For hireling traitor’s wages.
    The English stell we could disdain,
    Secure in valour’s station;
    But English gold has been our bane-
    Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

    O would, or I had seen the day
    That Treason thus could sell us,
    My auld grey head had lien in clay,
    Wi’ Bruce and loyal Wallace!
    But pith and power, till my last hour,
    I’ll mak this declaration;
    We’re bought and sold for English gold-
    Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

    RB-1791

    SCOTTISH QUISLINGS WHO SOLD SCOTLAND AND ITS PEOPLE
    FOR ENGLISH GOLD in 1707,MAYBE YOUR CLAN KIN IS HERE

    Earl of Marchmont: received £1,104. -17s-7d.
    Earl of Cromarty: received £300.
    Lord Preston Hall: received £200.
    Lord Ormiston: received £200.
    Duke of Montrose: received £200.
    Duke of Athol: received £1000.
    Earl of Balcarres: received £500.
    Earl of Dunmoor: received £200.
    Lord Anstruther: received £300.
    Mr. Stewart of Castle Stewart: received £300.
    Earl of Eglington: received £200.
    Lord Fraser: received £100.
    Lord Cesnock, now Polwarth: received £50.<<Cheap Skate)
    Mr. John Campbell: received £200.
    Earl of Forfar: received £100.
    Sir Kenneth MacKenzie: received £100.
    Earl of Glencairn: received £100.
    Earl of Kintore: received £200.
    Earl of Findlator: received £100.
    Lord Forbes: received £50.
    John Muir, Provost of Ayr: received £100.
    Earl of Seafield, Lord Chancellor: £490.
    Marquis of Tweedale: received £1000.
    Duke of Roxburgh: received £500.
    Lord Elibank: received £50.
    Lord Banff: received £11-2/-
    Major Cunningham of Eckatt: received £100.
    The Messenger who brought the Treaty of Union: received £60.
    Sir William Sharp: received £300.
    Patrick Coultrain, Provost of Wigton: received £25.
    Mr. Alexander Wedderburn: received £75.
    The Commisioner for Equippage & Daily Allowance: received £12,325.

  100. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    15 Aug, 2014 - 8:44 am

    Jives

    “Picking on Mary because you cant beat her arguments.”
    __________________

    Which arguments would those be, Jives? I see a lot of cut-and-paste, but arguments….?

    Are you Mary’s Sir Galahad, Jives?

  101. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    15 Aug, 2014 - 8:54 am

    As I dimly recall from other sources than my Strictly-English History classes at an English school, the Act of Union followed on from the Darien speculative clusterfuck, in which the Scottish finance industry succeeded in crashing the Scottish economy. It’s ironic that the impetus for Scottish independence has been magnified by the 2008 speculative clusterfuck in which the West’s finance industry succeeded in crashing the West’s economy.

    Moral: never trust a financier.

  102. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    15 Aug, 2014 - 9:06 am

    Canspeccy -

    You are very rude about our Scottish politicians, and in the cases cited, with reason. But you ignore the gigantic contribution the Scots have made to your own (adopted?) country:

    http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/scots/

    Maybe you’re Québécois, and jealous?

  103. I’ll be along to see you in Dundee, Craig.

    Try not to overdo it though.

    Get well. That is more important than anything.

    Tris

  104. Les québécois ne peuvent gagner leur independence non plus, mais on les a fait voté plusieurs fois

  105. Mary @ 8:10am

    “I was waiting for a friend yesterday who was in the supermarket. I saw several young women emerge with their shopping, all over 25 stone and wearing leggings!, eating packets of crisps and other junk as they pushed their trollies. A middle aged man who looked 9 mths pregnant and who was dangerously obese was eating a pasty.

    “Next stop the diabetes clinics or A&E with their coronaries.”

    You might find the following links illuminating on the effects of sugar in the diet, and its cynical use by the big food corporations (when I was a wee lad growing up in Scotland, obesity was very rare):

    http://www.owen.org/musings/sugar (a “long, boring article”, but good info)

    http://www.owen.org/?s=sugar

    Note that the author of these pieces is Owen Barder, son of Brian Barder, erstwhile diplomatic colleague of Craig’s (and who kindly lists Craig’s blog on his blogroll)

  106. nevermind, it will happen anyway

    15 Aug, 2014 - 10:06 am

    Thanks for that snippet, Neill, gosh Owen does not like sugar, does he, what a wealth of in formation and proof that our health service has no teeth.
    If the NHS is only good for mopping up the mistakes of failed regulation then its doomed allright.

  107. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    15 Aug, 2014 - 10:22 am

    Alternative method of removing malign influence of Westminster:

    The majority of Britons would support sending David Cameron’s entire cabinet of ministers into Iraq and a similar percentage would support air dropping Nick Clegg onto the front lines from a high altitude to support British involvement in humanitarian efforts,

    In a ComRes poll for ITV News, a mere 13% of British people opposed the idea of dispatching the chancellor George Osborne alongside the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions Iain Duncan Smith to fight brutal ISIS militia forces in northern Iraq, while a massive 84% agreed with air dropping boxes containing Chief Secretary to the Treasury Danny Alexander and the Secretary of State for Health Jeremy Hunt onto Mount Sinjar to aid refugees trapped there.

    Brits were also found to be more likely to support than oppose deploying the Prime Minister David Cameron on a long-term mission into Iraq to personally fight against Islamic State militants, with as many as 45% in favour of shipping him over there for a long-term deployment of as long as is f*cking possible.

    http://tompride.wordpress.com/2014/08/14/87-of-uk-public-back-sending-cameron-cabinet-to-iraq/

    A man can dream.

  108. Liz Truss replaces Owen Paterson at Defra
    DEFRA’S ‘REVOLVING door’ has been turning again as part of the shake-up to Westminster’s coalition Cabinet.

    ‘The fluid nature of Westminster’s farming and environment portfolio is something that hasn’t gone unnoticed by Nigel Miller, president of the National Farmers Union Scotland.

    Congratulating Ms Truss on her appointment, Mr Miller added: “This will be the third Secretary of State in place since I took up the Union Presidency in 2011. For a long term industry like farming, the revolving door at Defra makes building relationships and driving consistent policy challenging but such changes appear to be the nature of modern politics.”

    Scottish farming CabSec Richard Lochhead also took the opportunity to comment on the ever-changing faces at Defra. He said: “Defra’s policies have been at odds with Scotland’s priorities for agriculture and the environment and I will be seeking an urgent meeting with the new Secretary of State – the fifth I have had to deal with in my time as Scotland’s Cabinet Secretary.

    “Stakeholders and myself will now have to undergo yet another round of meetings to bring yet another new Defra Secretary of State up to speed on issues vital to Scotland.”

    Mr Paterson had riled Scottish farmers by deciding to spread the recent EU convergence cash uplift – intended to help ‘converge’ Scotland’s low farming area payments with their better paid neighbours – across the whole of the UK.

    Mr Lochhead called on Ms Truss to remedy that: “Liz Truss can of course show it is not a case of same old same old by immediately reversing Owen Paterson’s position on Scotland’s CAP convergence funds – the hundreds of millions of euros due to Scottish farming but grabbed by Westminster despite cross-party support for the funds to stay in Scotland. These must now be returned to Scotland.”‘

    http://www.thescottishfarmer.co.uk/news/liz-truss-replaces-owen-paterson-at-defra.24777409

    I was looking to discover Truss’s opinion on GM crops but could not find anything.

  109. Thanks Neil. I remember a recent TV programme on the addictive nature of corn syrup which is used increasingly by the food manufacturers. This coalition have done little to curb the power of the BIG FOOD lobby.

    The Men Who Made Us Fat
    Episode 1 of 3
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01jxzv8 No longer on the iPlayer of course. It should be.

  110. nevermind, it will happen anyway

    15 Aug, 2014 - 12:33 pm

    Thanks for this Mary, Liz has now got the full Truss of the PM behind her, so it seems. She is an educationalist who has not got much nous of sea defences, modern full spectrum recycling or agriculture.

    Change ensures that ideas and developments are stalled until the new minister has ‘informed herself’ found her feet in the footsteps of Chloe Smith, next a Newsnight appearance with flowing mane and sharp tounges.

    She must soon answer to the question whether school children could be fed GM food and whether its due to her support for this technology. We must remind ourselves that there are no markets for GM in Europe and its questionable whether the public moneypit, framed as science, should be supported when conventional breeding, which is excellent, gets us what we need.
    http://www.thompson-morgan.com/how-to-stop-potato-blight

    http://sarvari-trust.org/hungarian-connection.html

    If you can’t find nothing on her GM views its because it is still to come, I believe.

    We have sunk hundreds of millions if not billions into a technology that is marked by its commercial goals and patent laws, a guaranteed share within the foodchain, seed market etc. not health, not efficiency, not compatability with other species, sheer profits and bugger those who get cross contaminated with dominant genes…

    I’m ready as a coiled spring and the local rag will be the first to hear it Mary.

    @all, Anybody going up to the DTRH?

  111. nevermind, it will happen anyway

    15 Aug, 2014 - 1:18 pm

    O/T five minutes in Norfolk

    venturing into the kitchen, I looked once again at the paintjob I’d done during this week, my eyes wandered towards the backdoor and the window next to it, a small kafuffle fluttered outside and as I gently eased towards the window without blinking, a loud Radio Norfolk playing a piece by the commodores, ouside, about a yard and a half away, some 80-100 sparrows were busy picking the seeds out of the grass outside. looking to the right a young wren searches the old coalbunker, food in abundance and quick as a flash.

    Then, like one in a moment of flight, a disturbance and they all sat on the fence.
    The radio is telling us that Ebola has been widely underestimated, news with yet unforseen consequences to worldwide trade, travel and communications.

    a snippet in time.

  112. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    15 Aug, 2014 - 3:05 pm

    The radio is telling us that Ebola has been widely underestimated,

    That was a sweet-and-sour moment, Nevermind.

    I am wondering just who underestimated Ebola: pretty reliably lethal, extremely infectious, originates in countries with poor public health controls and inappropriate care and burial practices, symptoms invisible until after patient is infectious, airline travel available on demand – and wait for the refugees going overland and off-road -…what’s to underestimate?

  113. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    15 Aug, 2014 - 3:07 pm

    oh…and no vaccine…

  114. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    15 Aug, 2014 - 3:14 pm

    Flights heading for Heathrow from Lagos at the moment: Arik Air ARA101 and Virgin Atlantic VIR652W. Keep clear, I would.

  115. Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    15 Aug, 2014 - 3:36 pm

  116. Republicofscotland

    15 Aug, 2014 - 3:39 pm

    @Squonk.

    Re your comment 11.15pm

    I take your point no its not a huge quantity of oil, but that’s the whole argument surrounding oil in the North sea, the unionist parties are claiming that its a dwindling resource, in fact Alistair Darling said North sea oil would run out by 2017. Yet here we are still discovering viable ridges and fields, that’s the nub of the debate, which when converted into layman’s terms amounts to nothing more than scaremongering, by the unionist parties.

  117. Republicofscotland

    15 Aug, 2014 - 3:44 pm

    CanSpeccy.

    Re your comment 10.24pm

    What an infantile and churlish comment.

  118. Republicofscotland

    15 Aug, 2014 - 3:56 pm

    Exitpoint.

    Re your comment 1.34am

    Professor Ronald MacDonald is an ardent supporter of Better Together and the union, though his comment is a bit over the top shall we say,its nonetheless in line with the preposterous claims already made by the no camp.

    Such as an independent Scotland wouldn’t be able to watch Dr Who, even though its beamed to 70 countries around the world, or George Robertson’s claim, that an independent Scotland would lead to the Balkanisation of Europe.

    Or Gordon Brown’s ridiculous claim that no one in Scotland would receive an organ transplant from anywhere else in the UK after independence. Or how about mobile roaming charges would rocket in an independent Scotland this was touted just as the charges were abolished.

    My favourite scaremonger story so far though, I find it more laughable than scary was, Phil Hammond who I think was Defence Secretary until recently, said an independent Scotland would be open to attack from outer space.

  119. The beer at the Aviemore Centre was pish. They never cleaned the pipes, ca 1972. Mind the Happy Haggis, down the road?

  120. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    15 Aug, 2014 - 4:28 pm

    Moderators

    The same commenter is using two names: Komodo and Ba’al Zevul.

    Are other commenters also allowed to use two names?

  121. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    15 Aug, 2014 - 4:31 pm

    Mary

    “This coalition have done little to curb the power of the BIG FOOD lobby.”
    ____________________

    Not sure the UK (or any other country) can do much by itself, Mary.

    The EU and various international agreements, you see (WTO, Trans-Atlantic Partnership, etc).

    Can’t blame this on the Coalition, Mary, sorry.

  122. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    15 Aug, 2014 - 4:38 pm

    Craig and others

    Just in case you missed it, I’m reposting a couple of questions (not fundamental questions of course but nevertheless ones which might interest you as a former civil servant)

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    And another two questions on the “nuts and bolts”.

    The first is on the civil service.

    An independent Scotland will be responsible for all functions of government and not only for those which have already been devolved and for which civil service structures already exist in Edinburgh; accordingly, administrative structures will need to be created for govt functions such as foreign and overseas development policy, many of the functions currently exercised by the Treasury for the UK as a whole, Revenue and Customs and so on.

    On the assumption that most of the civil servants (whether “Scottish” or not) currently administering the govt departments in question in Whitehall would not, for a variety of reasons, wish to transfer to the new Scottish administrative structures and move from London to Scotland, would this mean that an independent Scotland bee hiring lots of new civil servants? Has any quantification of likely needs and costs been done by the SNP or anyone else?

    The second question concerns civil servants and language, and is based on the assumption that Scottish Gaelic will be the second official language of Scotland (cf. the the republic of Ireland).

    Will the civil servants servicing the new purely “national” functions of an independent Scotland – eg, the Scottish Foreign Office, the Scottish “Treasury” – be required to be able to operate in Scottish Gaelic as well as in English (again,cf.the Republic of Ireland and also Canada)? Will civil servants exercising functions which have both a national and local dimension – eg, social services,, education) be likewise be required to be able to operate in both Scottish Gaelic and English?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  123. “My favourite scaremonger story so far though, I find it more laughable than scary was, Phil Hammond who I think was Defence Secretary until recently, said an independent Scotland would be open to attack from outer space.”

    Actually he didn’t say that, what he said was:

    In the past, the threats we faced came only from the sea, from land and, more recently, from the air.

    Now, they also come from two new domains, space and cyber space, and from non-state protagonists as well as from nation states.

    That seems a reasonable statement. Since the USA embarked on the starwars program other countries have followed suit. High powered lasers are being put into space as are high powered transmitters capable of disrupting communications over a wide area. Not only are the major powers like Russia and China involved but smaller countries like Israel also have advanced space programs.

    The SNP would not really be as stupid as the other YES campaigners obviously are and ignore this threat would they? They are not really going to allow Israel to monitor our every move from orbit are they? They won’t allow Russia to put military hardware above our heads?

    Please tell me it’s just a few dickheads at wingsoverscotland not taking this seriously.

  124. Carpet munching Nazi, according to socket

    15 Aug, 2014 - 4:45 pm

    Whats in a name and why is our resident establishemnt paedo lovey disturbed by it?
    Well, we can’t all be Harry Webbs, boy?

  125. Harry webbish

    15 Aug, 2014 - 4:50 pm

    The civil service in Scotland will be determined by the voters of Scotland and their hopefully mandate led representatives.
    No blinkered rightwing schoolmaster who thinks nothing ofr covering up establishment crimes will have a say in this.

    capiche? Kannst du das verstehen, alter Mann? Du hast da ueberhaupt nichts zu sagen! (Can you understand this, old man, you will have absolutely no say in this)

  126. nevermind Harry, they're all at it

    15 Aug, 2014 - 4:53 pm

    moderator, hallo moderator can you hear me, now they are all at it and its soo untidy, boooohoooo…..

  127. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    15 Aug, 2014 - 4:56 pm

    Nebelmind

    My “Teppichfresser” really got to you, didn’t it. Why ?

    And why are you homophobic (your “Harry Webb” refers)?

  128. @Uzbek in the UK – There has never been a “Vahobi movement” unless your knowledge of Muslim history is based on anti-Arab racist Israel-Firster Daniel Pipes.

    The WAHABI cult was hijacked by the Jewish ancestors of the current Saudi “royals” to implement West’s colonial agenda in the Muslim heartland.

    http://www.shoah.org.uk/2012/08/19/saudi-royal-family-is-jewish-king-and-prince-are-all-jew/

  129. Bishop Tutu: Liberation of Palestine will liberate Israel, too

    “We know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of Palestinians,” said Nelson Mandela, late President of South Africa.

    The ways in which the Israeli government ensures support around the world is to create an atmosphere of fear. Jews over centuries were persecuted in many European countries. It has become a part of Jewish memory,” said professor steven Friedman (University of Johannesburg).

    http://rehmat1.com/2014/08/15/bishop-tutu-liberation-of-palestine-will-liberate-israel-too/

  130. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    15 Aug, 2014 - 5:00 pm

    Nevermind

    “The civil service in Scotland will be determined by the voters of Scotland and their hopefully mandate led representatives.”
    _________________

    Oh, is that yet another question for once the vote’s safely out of the way?

    Perhaps Craig can do better than that, Nebelmind?

    *****************

    Habbabkuk says : do not buy a used car from Mr Salmond (especially if it’s invisible)

  131. Habbabkuk
    “Are other commenters also allowed to use two names?”

    Hilariously infantile. Yes, it’s ingratiating tale telling but more, it displays a need to have the most trivial irrelevancies* covered by edict. Such mentality invites contempt from nanny state. No coincidence it comes from a staunch defender of the establishment.

    [*There is no deception involved. Everyone knows Baal and Komodo are the same. The pic is just one clue! Habbabkuk is looking for things to complain about. I bet he was/is an enthusiastic but minor bureaucrat in his work.]

  132. nevermind Harry, he's a good boy really

    15 Aug, 2014 - 5:04 pm

    Nebelmind

    My “Teppichfresser” really got to you, didn’t it. Why ?

    And why are you homophobic (your “Harry Webb” refers)
    —————————————————————
    Tsssss,hmmmmmm, in Ulm, um Ulm und Um Ulm herum.
    Fischers Fritze fischte frische Fische, frische Fische fischte Fischers Fritze.

    don’t feed the establihment crime supporter with more than he deserves

  133. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    15 Aug, 2014 - 5:31 pm

    Phil

    “[*There is no deception involved. Everyone knows Baal and Komodo are the same.”
    __________________

    Yes indeed.

    So presumably no one will mind if I use two names as well, provided no deception is involved?

    No indignant cries of “sock-puppet” then? :)

  134. Jim Naughtie get it right

    15 Aug, 2014 - 5:34 pm

    For the last time. Get your sufferers name right, you unionist loving Radio 4 presenter, don’t be so naughty and make out that you had no education.
    And be beware, the establishemnt crime supporter will eat your carpet.

    THEY ARE yASIDDIS, NOT YISADDIS, you ignorant twat.

  135. In this commentary on ‘notes on Nationalism’ by G Orwell, it is said…
    Through the essay Orwell characterizes people who follow this nationalistic idea as “obsessive”. He writes, “as neatly as possible, no nationalist ever thinks, talks or writes about anything except the superiority of his own unit.” This is because they are obsessed with their own country they can’t think about the bad and evil of their country only the good and just that it has. He said that “he will generally claim superiority for it, not only in military power and political virtue, but art, literature, sport, structure of the language, the physical beauty of the inhabitants and perhaps the climate, scenery cooking.” This only proves Orwell’s point that people that have the idea of nationalism in their heads that they are obsessive. Another characterization Orwell explains is the “instability” of people with this idea of nationalism. link to George Orwell:Notes on Nationalism.http://orwell.ru/library/essays/nationalism/english/e_nat “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them”.

  136. It has also occurred to me that it isn’t only man made threats we need to guard against, given our location extreme space weather could be devastating, or will be I should say, it’s only a matter of time.

    I can’t believe the Nationalists are not taking this seriously. Sheer madness.

  137. Simon Jenkins: The case for Trident is absurd. Scotland may help us get rid of it
    Posted by John Hilley on August 15, 2014, 3:44 pm MLMB

    If the Scottish referendum does indeed force the absurdity of Britain’s nuclear deterrent out into the light of day, it is worth it for that alone. If it were to go further and kill Trident stone dead, it would be thank you, Salmond, thank you, Scotland.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/15/trident-absurd-scotland-alex-salmond

    Of course, the option of ditching Trident altogether isn’t up for serious discussion by our indyref-framing media, only the ‘problems’ of relocation, costs and time frames.

    As Jenkins suggests, a Yes vote could give massive impetus to seeing this obscenity removed completely.

    John

  138. Republicofscotland

    15 Aug, 2014 - 8:12 pm

    @Fred.

    Re your comment 4.40pm

    Well Fred I’m pretty sure someone in the No camp said it.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/alistair-darling-beats-alex-salmond-3996581

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/aug/05/sketch-a-good-independent-debate

    http://metro.co.uk/2014/08/05/salmond-and-darling-clash-in-live-scottish-independence-tv-debate-4822703/

    Here are just a few of the dozens of links that carry the story,indeed it was such a farcical, comment by the no camp that even Alex Salmond asked Alistair Darling, why they said such a foolish thing. of course when it comes to Westminster, politicians are no strangers to foolish talk.

  139. Republicofscotland

    15 Aug, 2014 - 8:20 pm

    @Fred.

    By the way Fred, speaking of FOOLISH talk, I’m still waiting on you, supplying the link, to your outrageous claim that Alex Salmond, travelled, to Shetland in disguise.

    Or are you like the no camp in nature, when it comes to outer space, just a gaseous giant.

  140. Ba-al Zevul (With Gaza)

    15 Aug, 2014 - 8:47 pm

    What Phil said @ 5.01. Thanks, Phil, for bringing it to my Habbabroken notice. What a klutz our ersatz-Israeli is. No further elaboration required except to suggest that it may have been a little more senior, though no more competent, than you think.

    /kangaroos.

  141. ” Well Fred I’m pretty sure someone in the No camp said it. ”

    Although you can’t remember who.

    This is a transcript of the speech and you’ll see the words appear as Fred described.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/why-defence-matters-in-the-scottish-independence-debate

    So the “outer space” claim is really nothing but nationalist propaganda.

  142. @Republicofscotland

    Don’t you understand the great threat we face from outer space? If you don’t I’m sure there are those here who can tell you. Whether the EMPs are natural or man made they would be devastating and we would have no defence. All we can do is plan now, have defence forces to restore lines of communication, get power to places like hospitals, distribute food. Every IC in Scotland could be sent to silicone heaven in one blast, every phone every supermarket till every petrol pump stop working, power lines would overload, the engine management systems of cars all pack in.

    I find it incredible that you laugh at someone just for saying we face a threat from outer space. I would have deep reservations about entrusting the country to those so obviously incompetent.

    BTW It’s because Cameron did not go to Shetland clandestinely that I could post links to prove you were talking bollocks. I would have thought it obvious that if Salmond did go to Shetland clandestinely there would be no such links.

  143. Fred, where’s your tinfoil hat?

  144. New L O N G article from John Pilger, one to cut out and keep:

    http://johnpilger.com/articles/the-return-of-george-orwell-and-big-brothers-war-on-palestine-ukraine-and-truth

    Hope your talk(s) go well Craig.

    Situation in Ukraine shocking; based on your last blog posting on this particular subject -I’m paraphrasing: ‘It was Putin wot dun it’ has your position undergone any change?

    Once Scotland gains independence, having WENI as our neighbour could be like living next-door to Israel.

    If the EU is to survive, if its survival is worthwhile, it must gain its independence too, of whatever monkey it has on its back. ZOG?

    If there ever was a plot to murder a UK Labour opposition leader (Gaitskell) – and it wasn’t just some defectors ‘fantasy’ to keep the paycheques coming in – and replace him with someone’s ‘man’, maybe it wasn’t Wilson and wasn’t the Soviets, but Callaghan and ?, which was foiled serendipitously, it took them till 1976 to get him there, with Wilson (twice) and the well-intentioned, but naive Heath, as the obstacles, to hand all that dreams and a vague socialism had built in post-war Britain, to the bankers. From Smith to Blair went rather more smoothly.

  145. Post # 2474598696969,

    In which Habbabkuk,Kempe and Fred pretend not to be working out of the same sockpuppet bunker.

    Lolzzz…

  146. England, Do Not Be Afraid

    by Adam Ramsay

    Scottish independence would barely impact on election results, but would be a welcome blow to British nationalism.

    15 August, 2014

    Whilst researching for my new e-book, 42 reasons to support Scottish independence, I spent some time looking at historic election results. The answer to my question was three: Since the 1832 Reform Act, I can only find three Prime Ministers who depended on Scottish MPs: Asquith, Wilson and Callaghan. In the latter two cases, this was only for a total of a few months. This isn’t, as some have suggested, because Scottish votes have only diverged from those south of the border recently.

    I say this because all too often I hear people in England express the fear that a yes vote in the Scottish referendum would mean endless Tory governments for the remainder of the UK. It’s a fear I can understand; worrying about Conservatives having any power over you is rational. But Scotland is so small compared to England that even minor changes south of the border impact much more on who wins at Westminster than would the potential absence of Scottish MPs.

    The more important question is not how Scottish independence would impact on the political arithmetic in England, but how it would change the politics. The most obvious difference would be within the Labour Party. All too often Scottish Labour MPs (Jim Murphy, Douglas Alexander, Alistair Darling, Gordon Brown, Tom Harris, to name a few) are framed as the saviours of the English left, coming south to rescue England from itself. The truth is quite the opposite. Scottish Labour, because it is the party of the establishment in Scotland, has long been on the right of the party.

    /..
    http://www.newleftproject.org/index.php/site/article_comments/england_do_not_be_afraid

  147. Why is this twerp putting his two penn’orth in? Who told him to? Agent Cameron?

    16 August 2014
    Australian PM warns against Yes vote
    Australian PM Tony Abbott warns against Scottish independence, saying it is “hard to see how the world would be helped by an independent Scotland”.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28814936

  148. “Fred, where’s your tinfoil hat?”

    Kathy, this is serious. I know Nationalists believe they are superior to everybody else but they have to take notice. The threat from space is very real.

    Here are some government documents the laughing hyenas should read.

    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201012/cmselect/cmdfence/1552/155205.htm

    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201012/cmselect/cmdfence/1925/192504.htm

  149. O/T

    The Zionists have forced the Jewish Chronicle to apologise for publishing an ad for the Gaza aid appeal.

    That says all you need to know about Zionism and the JC reader’s mindset.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28812983

  150. Resident Dissident

    16 Aug, 2014 - 10:55 am

    Taken from the Interpreter http://www.interpretermag.com/category/blog/ – perhaps the Putinistas might wish to try and come up with a better explanation than the officials reported by RIA Novosti………..

    “A number of Western journalists have reported that the white-painted KAMAZ trucks used in Russia’s humanitarian aid convoy turn out to be empty. There’s been a lot of speculation about what they were planning to fill them with, but now Russian transportation officials have come up with an explanation.

    It seems the KAMAZ trucks were so new — manufactured this year — that they weren’t broken in yet, and therefore couldn’t be trusted to carry full loads under Russian regulations — nor be forced to absorb so much wear when they were brand-new.

    There were also only a limited number of persons accompanying the convoy. An official from the transportation agency that handled the make-up of the convoy had explanations for RIA-Novosti (translated by The Interpreter):

    “The KAMAZes were not loaded fully so that there wouldn’t be excessive wear on automobiles that were not yet broken in, many of which were of 2014 make. It would mean that in case of a breakdown of the mechanics and a stop on the highway, reloading the cargo by hand to other vehicles completely filled to capacity, would be quite difficult. Moreover, a fully-loaded truck does not go fast enough uphill, so in view of the large number of vehicles, this would have had a heavy impact on the speed of the convoy’s movement. And the cargo must be delivered quickly in light of the difficult humanitarian situation in the east of Ukraine.”

    Where to start?

    First of all, these trucks are not just carrying light loads, but as we pointed out earlier they are almost empty and are carrying a tiny tiny fraction of the weight they were designed to haul.In fact, Novaya Gazeta has a new gallery up, and the trucks are ridiculously empty.

    Secondly, why would new vehicles be used instead of the many many trucks at Russia’s disposal?On a related note, these are military trucks, as we’ve pointed out below, and so why weren’t different military trucks used, ones that were newer?

    Thirdly, we’re supposed to believe that these trucks are new, but the trucks are military vehicles which were painted white just this week. One would assume that the Russian military would break their trucks in fairly quickly, or why would they have so many trucks?

    Fourth, why does the Russian government care about the speed with which the aid is delivered, since these vehicles have been parked at the same spot for days now?”.

  151. Tony M

    Thank you for your link to John Pilger’s essay on Orwellian meaning reversal. I don’t have a TV but I saw BBC 1 reporters last night discussing the Sykes Picot borders with friendly IS English speaking jihadists, standing on a sand dune rather like the beach at Harlech.

    Lovely soft, cuddly CIA jihadists. Problem is that while the Tridents scan Kurdistan for the vehicles of the jihadists they are also scanning the vehicles of the Pershmerga. USUKIS wanted Islam change in Iraq before, and if they can’t get Iraqis to accept Blair’s Disneyland they are going to be forced to accept the alternative.

    Malike ‘s gone like all democrats, after he handed, as commanded by his CIA handlers, 3 million quid and a brand new batch of air-slicing guns and bomb-proof humvees to ISIS. The new incumbents will be so much different from the first, we all believe. Not. The Kurdish meaning of dem-ocracy being dam = blood; ( Greek )kratos = power.

    Why did we march against Blair in 2003? because we had seen the carpet-bombing of Afghanistan in 2001. Why do we not believe the guffawing members of our House of Commons about Kurdistan being the UK’s friend? because we saw what friendship means in Libya when the dropped 800 tons of bombs in a week on the simple Muslim population of Tripoli and put the brain-washed Islamist jihadis in power.

    It really bugs UKUSIS since Winston Churchill visited Kurdistan before the first world war, that you can’t round off your day in Kurdistan by ordering a boy and a beer. The evidence for that is the destruction of Syrian normal Muslim society, now dead or threatened by gangsters in refugee camps. WC called the Kurdish ‘ uncivilised ‘ because they didn’t serve his warped desires.

    Something about Islam is so hateful to the West, that they are prepared to sponsor and brain-wash bearded contras to wreck the Muslim, peaceful way of life across the globe. Nothing on earth, even phony bearded BBC jihadists-propagandists on sand-dunes, will ever destroy their enemy – the clean, God-worshipping Muslim Ummah of peaceful family life.

  152. RD

    That’s what you do when you enter a war-zone for humanitarian reasons, identify yourself as humanitarian – in this case by white colour. What do you want?, Broccolli trees and cauliflower clouds silk-screened onto the white paint to remind the shattered victims to eat their daily 5?

  153. Mary,

    That twerp is as entitled,and probably as informed about independence, as you are. Both of you selected a side long before any of the real issues were debated. You would like an end to the UK and for David Cameron to suffer a great embarrassment. I doubted Abbott needed to be told what his opinion should be, he is a right wing monarchist anglophile with a sentimental attachment to history. He can’t bare the the thought of the ‘old country’ breaking up. Both narrow minded opinions on the referendum framed by your own political desires.

  154. 11.23 p.s. Inshallah

  155. ‘Fourth, why does the Russian government care about the speed with which the aid is delivered, since these vehicles have been parked at the same spot for days now?’

    RD- it would appear that the hold up of the convoy at the border is because of objections from Kiev, as executed by its border force-

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28814364

  156. Resident Dissident

    16 Aug, 2014 - 12:32 pm

    What do you want?,

    Trucks FULL of humanitarian supplies handed over to the IRC. Empty ones driven and controlled by the Russian military don’t quite cut it for me. If you cannot read what the Russian official said to RIA Novosti and realise it is complete b******* then you and Old Mark are evn more naïve than I thought.

  157. Mick LOL

    Abbot is just a stooge for the USUKIsNATO gangsters-in-charge.

    eg

    Abbot gov’t the most pro-Israel ever
    Sunday, August 10, 2014
    By Simon Butler

    Tony Abbot with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Photo.

    ‘As civilian casualties climb from its brutal assault on Gaza, Israel has met growing condemnation for the carnage from human rights groups and many governments.

    In Latin America, the response has been especially strong. Since Israel began its assault a month ago, El Savador, Chile, Peru, Brazil and Ecuador have withdrawn their ambassadors in protest.’

    [..]

    ‘On the same day, the bodies of 16 people were pulled from the rubble of a United Nations school sheltering Palestinian refugees that Israeli forces had bombed. AFP said it was “the second time in a week that a UN school housing refugees has been hit, and the sixth in two weeks”.

    On the same day in Jerusalem, Australia’s government sent a very different message to Israel. As keynote speaker at the Australia-Israel-UK Leadership Dialogue, Australian education minister Christopher Pyne said: “Israel is the beacon of freedom and liberty in the Middle East.”

    Pyne said Australia and Israel were “two sister nations believing in the same thing … we regard Israel and Australia as sister countries with the same value systems and we want to show our support for that system here in the Middle East”.

    Pyne stressed that Australia was “good friends” with Israel and “good friends visit their friends in tough times”.

    He said he was in Israel “because Australians love freedom”. But the “freedom” he has in mind does not extend to Palestinians under a near-50 year military occupation long declared illegal under international law or to Gazans subject to the longest siege in history.’

    etc etc
    https://www.greenleft.org.au/node/57071

    Q. You’re not Jemand are you?

    PS You ‘bare’ bottoms btw. ‘He can’t bare the the thought of the ‘old country’ breaking up.’

  158. This petition of American origin was sent to me by an Australian friend.

    Prosecute Netanyahu
    for Genocide and War Crimes!
    https://secure2.convio.net/pep/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=507

  159. Lol? An interesting response.

    The only substantial comment you made in your reply was to correct my grammar, which I thank you for. It was a bit too early for me this morning and the coffee on East Coast Rail was merely coloured water.

    I would agree with you that Abbott is pro USUKNATO, but a stooge? No. I don’t believe he was phoned up by the ‘gangsters in charge’ and told to make his ridiculous comments to The Times anymore than I believe that you are phoned and told to wage war on the internet on behalf of your various causes.

    Your rather lengthy cut and paste job actually supports the point that I was making. Namely, that both Abbott and yourself are entitled to express an opinion on independence, but that you both picked sides for reasons which have nothing to do with Scottish independence.

    No I am not Jemand, I am me. You have questioned my identiy several times or referred to me as a troll, normally after I have countered some point or another which you have made, last time you made such a comment I gave you a rather curt reply. I would prefer if I didn’t have to do so again.

  160. Scotland’s first minister Alex Salmond says Australian PM’s Scottish independence comments were “foolish, hypocritical and offensive”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28814936

    Spot on there Alex me old cobber.

  161. I have watched this blog ,no matter what the subject constantly dragged back to the conflict in Palestine but outer space Fred?
    It made me laugh. Your knowledge of our cellestial heavens matches that of Scotland I am sure.But since you are watching the skies,what do the stars say about Independence?

  162. Ben-American Fascist Flechette

    16 Aug, 2014 - 2:22 pm

    “I have watched this blog ,no matter what the subject constantly dragged back to the conflict in Palestine but outer space Fred?”

    Hm well, maybe it’s felt everything has been said on the topic. We’re all looking forward to the finality.

  163. Republicofscotland

    16 Aug, 2014 - 3:09 pm

    @Kempe.

    Re your comment 9.24pm

    The Murdoch Salmond meeting is well documented, and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with Fred’s wild claim that Alex Salmond, went to Shetland in disguise.

    Now if you have, a proper link to Alex Salmond going to Shetland in disguise, then please be good enough to post it, if not instead of Oh! Dear, please be a good dear, and keep up.

  164. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    16 Aug, 2014 - 3:11 pm

    Mick (to Mary)

    “No I am not Jemand, I am me. You have questioned my identiy several times or referred to me as a troll, normally after I have countered some point or another which you have made, last time you made such a comment I gave you a rather curt reply. I would prefer if I didn’t have to do so again.”
    __________________

    Well Mick, you might have to get used to it if you continue commenting. Everyone who dares to disagree with the official line of the Eminences on here will, sooner or later, be accused of being someone else – or in the pay of Mossad, MI5, CIA or whatever.

    We true dissidents, on the other hand, never accuse Mary, Mr Goss, Nevermind the Teppichfresser, Phil, Guano et al of being anyone else or agents of occult forces because it is quite clear that they are what they are – just seriously disturbed individuals.

  165. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    16 Aug, 2014 - 3:19 pm

    From Mary

    “Scotland’s first minister Alex Salmond says Australian PM’s Scottish independence comments were “foolish, hypocritical and offensive””
    ___________________

    And this blog’s First Dissident says Scotland’s first minister’s reactions to Australian PM’s comments were “a panicky, peevish attack on free speech and liberty of expression”.

    Pu that in your nargillah and smoke it, Mary.

  166. Republicofscotland

    16 Aug, 2014 - 3:21 pm

    @Kempe.

    Re your comment 9.20

    Actually you,re million miles away from the truth, it was Andy Burnham who made the “Outerspace” comment, Burnham and Darling eventually put it off as a joke, which is commonly known in Scotland as scaremongering.

    Here’s a link where Alistair Darling admits it was Andy Burnham who said the comment, its half way down the page.

    Oh! Dear.

    http://labourlist.org/2014/08/darling-trounces-salmond-with-a-single-question-in-independence-debate/

  167. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    16 Aug, 2014 - 3:22 pm

    Ben (Californian Bombast)

    ““I have watched this blog ,no matter what the subject constantly dragged back to the conflict in Palestine but outer space Fred?”

    Hm well, maybe it’s felt everything has been said on the topic.”
    ____________________

    I fear that you’re over-optimistic, Ben: the usual suspects will no doubt keep droning on about it until the Last Trump. :)

  168. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    16 Aug, 2014 - 3:29 pm

    On a more serious note:

    I commend to interested readers a think piece in today’s London “Times” (page 19) by Rabbi Jonathan Sachs – moderate, thoughtful, insightful.

    One of the key thoughts : “Criticism of Israel is not anti-semitism, but demonisation is”.

    Fedup and various others (“Zionist scum”, “devils”, “fascists”, “concentration camp” etc..) please take note.

  169. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    16 Aug, 2014 - 3:30 pm

    Jonathan Sacks.

  170. Republicofscotland

    16 Aug, 2014 - 3:41 pm

    @Fred 9.25pm

    Re your comment, Scotland could be under attack from outerspace, Hmm! lets see, the asteroid Apophis was touted by the NASA to hit earth on 2036, then they changed their minds.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-20986464

    Maybe you mean gamma ray bursts, from a collapsing star, though burst in our galaxy or near by galaxies are thought to occur once every 5 million years.

    http://space.about.com/od/deepspace/a/Could-A-Gamma-Ray-Burst-Destroy-Life-On-Earth.htm

    Or maybe you mean’t powerful solar flares destroying earth, especially Scotland right?

    http://science.howstuffworks.com/solar-flare-electronics.htm

    Could it be you mean’t that HARRP would be disasterous, to earth as man made weather changing patterns would be influenced, by outerspace activity, especially in an Independent Scotland.

    http://www.haarp.net/

    You don’t by any chance happen to know Andy Burnham do you?

  171. ‘But Mr Salmond reacted angrily, saying Mr Abbott’s comments had ‘all the hallmarks of one of the Westminster’s international briefings against Scotland’.

    He added that the comments were ‘hypocritical’ because independence ‘does not seem to have done Australia any harm’.

    The Yes Scotland campaign, spearheaded by Mr Salmond, and the Better Together campaign, launched by Alistair Darling, will go head-to-head at the polls on September 18.

    Mr Salmond said: ‘Tony Abbott has a reputation for gaffes, but his bewildering comments have all the hallmarks of one of the Westminster Government’s international briefings against Scotland.

    ‘Many Australians, including the great number with close Scottish connections, will look on in bafflement at these remarks – Australia is a country that has gained its independence from Westminster and has never looked back.

    ‘An independent Scotland will be a beacon for fairness, justice and cooperation in the international community – and a great friend of Australia.’

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2726501/World-wouldnt-helped-independent-Scotland-says-Australias-prime-minister-believes-backing-independence-arent-friends-freedom.html

  172. “Actually you,re million miles away from the truth, it was Andy Burnham who made the “Outerspace” comment, Burnham and Darling eventually put it off as a joke, which is commonly known in Scotland as scaremongering.”

    Then why did you say it was Phil Hammond?

    15 Aug 3:56 pm

    “My favourite scaremonger story so far though, I find it more laughable than scary was, Phil Hammond who I think was Defence Secretary until recently, said an independent Scotland would be open to attack from outer space.”

    Andy Burnham made a joke about driving on the right not about any threats from outer space.

    If you look at this web site it not only tells it how it happened they post the video to prove it.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/aug/05/sketch-a-good-independent-debate

  173. ” The Murdoch Salmond meeting is well documented ”

    Yes; after he got found out.

    You must’ve had to hunt around to find that link, it is of course wrong as you know full well as you must’ve had to trawl through dozens of other reports that correctly attribute the remarks to Philip Hammond. Andy Burnham made an April’s fool joke about Scots having to drive on the right post independence.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/aug/05/sketch-a-good-independent-debate

    The Yes camp must be getting desperate if it has to resort to such wild misinterpretations.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/analysis-salmond-struggles-badly-during-debate-1.1889019

  174. SNAP!

  175. A Telesur op-ed on Scottish independence

    Independence without Borders?
    15 August 2014

    ‘The question posed in next month’s referendum, yes or no to independence for Scotland, was intended by British prime minister David Cameron to make the alternative to the status quo look so radical that the forces of conservatism would win out – but it hasn’t gone according to plan.’
    [..]

    ‘The referendum has become an invitation to say no to a superpower whose wars, most recently against Iraq, the Scottish people found abhorrent and yet were forced to join; a chance to say no to decades of social injustice and sacrifice at the altar of the global market by Conservative and Labour governments at Westminster, for which Scottish voters did not vote. It is, finally, a chance to refuse a democracy without substance in which MPs working 300 miles away and more are too distant to be accountable or subject to popular pressure.

    Most importantly, Scottish people have grasped the choice that they have to make directly – unmediated by the political class – as an opportunity to imagine the kind of society that they, the Scottish people, could build with the democratic possibilities of independence. The strength of these two dynamics, refusal and the sudden birth of new political imaginary, is such that there is even a question mark over whether Salmond’s SNP can survive the new political maelstrom.’

    http://www.telesurtv.net/english/opinion/Independence-without-Borders-20140815-0019.html

  176. “Re your comment, Scotland could be under attack from outerspace,”

    Make your mind up, first you say it was Phil Hammond then you make a wild and untrue accusation claiming it was Andy Burnham then you say it was me. Make your mind up.

    I have posted the official government documents, the British government take the threat very seriously and are taking precautions and making preparations. If the Nationalists are sticking their heads in the sand then they are not capable of running a piss up in a brewery let alone a country.

  177. Go on Magen David Adom UK’s Facebook page and demand Jewish Chronicle weekly to apologize for running a pro-Hams advert.

    http://rehmat1.com/2014/08/16/uks-jewish-weekly-jc-chased-by-jewish-mob/

  178. Republicofscotland

    16 Aug, 2014 - 4:59 pm

    @Fred. 4.13 and 4.20

    True it wasn’t Phil Hammond who said the outerspace comment, it was Andy Burnham, but the undeniable facts,is that it was said.

    So you’ve posted the UK’s official document regarding attacks from outerspace, and what? somehow if Scotland becomes independent we’ll need to look to the skies in case wee green men decide to attack.

    I thank you for your concern but, and independent Scotland will have far more important think to do between September the 19th and 2016, when matters will have been settled, between Scotland, and Westminster.

    Mind you if ET does land in Scotland,post independence, we won’t see Theresa May kick him out, or have UKIP’s Nigel Farage, declare him an illegal alien.

    Until then we’ll deal with more earthly matters, “Live long and prosper.”

  179. Remembrance this, Zzzip!

    16 Aug, 2014 - 5:05 pm

    Let’s not forget what Scotland really needs to break away from. So-called Britain is just a sort of shell, like one of those cockroaches turned into zombies by parasitic wasp larva. Meet the entomophagous parasites who run your zombie monarchy:

    http://www.newstatesman.com/economy/2011/02/london-corporation-city

  180. Republicofscotland

    16 Aug, 2014 - 5:08 pm

    @Kempe 4.13pm

    Re your comment, whats the point of posting those links I already know who made the outerspace comment, and no I didn’t have to search to much to find out the truth.

    As for your comment on Alex Salmond meeting with Rupert Murdoch, if memory serves me Murdoch employs around 9000 people in Scotland, tell me, is i,t only Westminster politicians that are allowed to meet with Murdoch, in the hopes of creating more job opportunities for citizens.

    Alex Salmond was only doing whats best for Scotland by meeting with men of power and influence, to bring business opportunities to Scotland,and ergo jobs.

  181. “True it wasn’t Phil Hammond who said the outerspace comment, it was Andy Burnham, but the undeniable facts,is that it was said.”

    Google “reading comprehension” and try to find a good online tutorial.

    Having grasped the basics go back and read the link both myself and Kempe were kind enough to post in an attempt to educate and enlighten you.

  182. Republicofscotland

    16 Aug, 2014 - 5:20 pm

    @Mary 4.02pm

    Re your comment Mary.

    Its to be expected the comment from Tony Abbot, why? well Australia is a part of the “Five Eyes” intelligence alliance so don’t expect any support for Scottish independence from those countries.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes

  183. “As for your comment on Alex Salmond meeting with Rupert Murdoch, if memory serves me Murdoch employs around 9000 people in Scotland, tell me, is i,t only Westminster politicians that are allowed to meet with Murdoch, in the hopes of creating more job opportunities for citizens.”

    No, all politicians are allowed to meet with Murdoch on official government business. They will be required to have someone making notes on what is discussed of courses and us the electorate will have the right to examine those notes.

    On the other hand if Salmond was attempting to bribe Murdoch into supporting independence while he was on a trip funded by the Scottish tax payer then that would be entirely different.

    One way to find out, if the meeting was official then there would have to be minutes. Are there minutes of the meeting?

  184. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    16 Aug, 2014 - 5:42 pm

    “Alex Salmond was only doing whats best for Scotland by meeting with men of power and influence, to bring business opportunities to Scotland,and ergo jobs.”
    ______________________

    You mean like Tony Blair sucking up to Murdoch ?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    “Scottish politicians are men and women of ethics and principle who cannot be bought, as opposed to UK ones”. Discuss.

  185. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    16 Aug, 2014 - 5:48 pm

    Tony Abbot

    Well, Tony Abbot has every right to give his views on independence for Scotland, doesn’t he.

    To object to his right to do so is mistaken, intolerant and anti-democratic and exude a certain whiff of desperation.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Extract from the Great Book of Excuses (Edinburgh, 2014, ed. A. Salmond)

    Excuse No. 78 for why the vote was “No” : Tony Abbot spoke against Scottish independence?

  186. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    16 Aug, 2014 - 5:54 pm

    “Its to be expected the comment from Tony Abbot, why? well Australia is a part of the “Five Eyes” intelligence alliance so don’t expect any support for Scottish independence from those countries.”
    _____________________

    Yes, but so what? I expect that those who wish the UK ill are greatly in favour of Scottish independence. So what does your comment add to our understanding of this matter?

  187. Three in a row. Again. Inane.

  188. “You mean like Tony Blair sucking up to Murdoch ?”

    It wasn’t just exactly the same. Salmond was sucking up to Murdoch to get his support at the referendum. Tony was sucking up to Murdoch because he was shagging his wife.

  189. When I was at Glasgow Uni the Men’s Union (anyone here remember that?) used to show Tom and Jerry cartoons in the debating hall every – um – was it Wednesday? We called these shows the ‘Freds’ after their producer, Fred Quimby. Watching a Fred here brings a tinglingly pleasurable déjà vu. Ah, to be young again. Keep it up Fred – how we laugh.

  190. Tony Abbot : The man is a tube !!!!!!!!!

  191. Short of money Habba ?: Working the weekend instead of playing Golf?
    Must be desperate if you are protecting Fred and his spacey theories.
    And what happened to no dog in the independence debate. It was Glasgow City council that flew the Palestinian flag, Not the SNP.

  192. Tony Abbot’s Intervention is interesting in introducing the Commonwealth dimension to this. Has the SNP taken a view on what relationship it would want?

  193. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    16 Aug, 2014 - 7:42 pm

    Fred

    ““You mean like Tony Blair sucking up to Murdoch ?”

    It wasn’t just exactly the same. Salmond was sucking up to Murdoch to get his support at the referendum. Tony was sucking up to Murdoch because he was shagging his wife.”
    ____________________

    Perhaps.

    But didn’t Blair make a 48 hour return trip to down under sometime before the 1997 general election to solicit the support of Murdoch and his titles?

    Anyway, I think we probably agree that the theory that politicians in an independent Scotland will not act more ethically or morally than current UK politicians (despite what has often been claimed on here).

  194. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    16 Aug, 2014 - 7:49 pm

    DoNNYDarko

    “Short of money Habba ?: Working the weekend instead of playing Golf?”
    __________________

    Certainly not and certainly not (I’m a beach volley man, as you should know by now)
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    “Must be desperate if you are protecting Fred and his spacey theories.”
    ____________________

    Fred is more than capable of seeing you lot off by himself, as this thread proves amply.

    Have I said anything about what you quaintly call “spacey theories”?
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    “And what happened to no dog in the independence debate.”
    ____________________

    If I had a dog, I’d say it was keeping well, Donny. But since I don’t, I’m afraid I can’t answer. Sorry!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    “It was Glasgow City council that flew the Palestinian flag, Not the SNP.”
    _____________________

    So U understand. Your point?

    **********************

    If I may borrow Mary’s expression : is there a single element of your comment that is not inane?

  195. Tony was sucking up to Murdoch because he was shagging his wife.

    You are mixing up the past, and back to future and sex and sucking up, there Fred. If I was less charitable I would have asked; are you sure you are taking your meds regularly?

    Mrs Murdoch then was another unfortunate woman and the later model Mrs Murdoch (younger than his children) was only house keeper. Unless you are unveiling a new secret about Miranda?

    ==========

    self inflicted profit, you have dropped too much sugar again and your divinations are way off whack; “those wishing UK ill”!

    Those who live in UK have every right to debate any eventual probabilities and outcomes so far as their own affairs are concerned, unless your Jewish supremacist claims extends to UK being a part of eretz eretz zionistan? Thus your slip of the click; “those wishing UK ill”.

    Evidently you are now banning the UK citizenry of the right to self determination, as you do with Palestinians. self inflicted prophet, is this a kind of habitual self appointment to rule the world, that us goyim cattle would not understand?

  196. Republicofscotland

    16 Aug, 2014 - 7:52 pm

    @Fred.

    Re your comments 5.13/5.24

    As yes I wondered when we’d get to the condescending remarks, I think I liked you better with your tinfoil hat on Oh! well.

    As for your other comment “If Salmond was attempting to bribe Murdoch” So now a meeting with an powerful business man is considered bribing. As for minutes to the meeting being available to the public, I think not, as far as I know.

    However the meeting between Salmond and Murdoch took place in New York at a time when Murdoch was trying to take over BskyB, Alex Salmond came out favour of Murdoch to protect 6000 Scottish jobs.

    http://www.sundaypost.com/news-views/scotland/independence-referendum/independence-on-trial/anger-over-salmond-s-secret-meeting-with-murdoch-1.328172

    Lets just say as far as bribing goes Alex Salmond couldn’t hold a candle to Westminster, I wouldn’t even know where to begin with regards to the debauched and underhand deals Westminster has done over the decades, with names like Gaddafi/Pinochet/Hussein, and Netanyahu, the list of evil is eternal.

    So when you, think you’re in a position to pass judgement, start with Sodom and Gomorrah, aka Westminster.

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