Freedom Cheaper than Iraq War

by craig on May 26, 2014 5:03 pm in Uncategorized

A particularly mendacious lie by Danny Alexander puts the institutional start-up costs of Scottish Independence at £1.5 billion.  That is a cool half billion pounds cheaper than Scotland’s share of the costs of the Iraq and Afghan wars, even on the Westminster government’s blatant under-estimate of the war costs.

So Scotland can afford criminal invasions killing hundreds of thousands to ‘bring freedom’, but cannot afford the smaller cost of its own freedom!!!

The £1.5 billion estimate is mendacious in two ways.  Firstly, it is a simple recycling of a Canadian lie at the time of the Quebec independence referendum, apportioning with no argument 1% of GDP to startup costs.

Secondly, as nearly all the money will be spent in Scotland it is not a loss at all, but actually an increase to GDP, as any but the most nutty neo-con would be forced to acknowledge.  And it would be the precursor of government money spent annually in Scotland rather than England for ever thereafter.

Thankfully Alexander won’t have a job much longer – and if he thinks a penny of Scottish public spending is going in future to support his huge arse and deceitful mouth, he is very wrong.

 

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764 Comments

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  1. Here he is at his most masterful last night. NOT. To think he has had a big say in the grinding down of the people over the last four years.

    Watch Danny Alexander Confronted By Lib Dem Activist Over European Election Misery http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMJ1Ug2_5hU#t=64

    Why does he always make me think of that old feather cushion that needs ‘plumping up’ a bit?

  2. Given how the cost of the Scottish Parliament building went up from an estimated £10m – £40m to £414 million, £1.5 billion might be being hopefull.

    On the plus side, if you divide it by the same 300 odd years the Union has lasted, and assume the nation-state world order lasts that long…

  3. BrianFujisan

    26 May, 2014 - 6:16 pm

    Well said Craig… And Mary enjoyed you Para Re Salmond vs Dimblebore, as Craig also Points to above –

    ” Last night Alex Salmond told Dimbledore that there has been a bias for UKIP by the BBC in their reporting of the Scottish elections and that a complaint had gone in.”

    Dimblebore went a bit red and laughingly said, ‘Complaints to BBC Glasgow then Mr Salmond’ to which Salmond said ‘No. That’s the trouble. It is being controlled from London’. Dimblebore shuffled his papers and quickly moved on.”

    Some more on the Dirty tricks Mob…From Wings Over Scotland…

    ” Having spent the last few months pleading poverty and pitiful-underdog status, “Better Together” this week appeared to have suddenly remembered that £500,000 cheque it got ages ago from Tory oil tycoon (and friend of genocidal war criminals everywhere) Ian Taylor, and started spending some of it…

    ” 12-page colour inserts in newspapers like the Daily Record and Guardian don’t come cheap, and hundreds of thousands of Scots found themselves looking at a small booklet which didn’t identify its source until the very last page, and could have been taken by the unwary to have been a production by the newspapers themselves.

    (Especially given the little pale blue “sticker” on the front using what looks very much like the Guardian’s own typeface).

    But that was the least of the dishonesty…

    ” Even the Financial Times acknowledges that “an independent Scotland could expect to start with healthier state finances than the rest of the UK”, so why would there need to be more cuts when we’re both richer and spending less anyway?…

    ” “All the information in this document comes from impartial experts, economists and employers. “

    A barefaced lie. Very few sources are actually cited, and almost all of the ones that are are UK government bodies like the Scotland Office, ONS and OBR. Where there are quotes, they’re highly selective and/or wildly out of context.

    But we’ll get to those as we go along…

    Full piece @

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-lies-you-get/

  4. Je

    Re Scottish Parliament costs – remember New Labour were in power at the time. Probably more spent on backhanders than on building materials.

  5. I personally think Alexander is a particularly obnoxious twat.

  6. Resident Dissident

    26 May, 2014 - 6:20 pm

    So what will the institutional start-up costs of Scottish Independence be?

  7. Res Diss

    £821,427,538.99, obviously.

    But the point is, that whatever the precise figure it will be a welcome Keynesian stimulus. The money is not lost. In fact it will have a substantial multiplier effect.

  8. Je

    No true Scot would allow the cost to soar like that.

  9. “£821,427,538.99, obviously.”

    RD really likes his facts, unless he has to go looking for them.

  10. Be careful Craig or he’ll publish that figure as fact and cite you as the source.

  11. As you say, the money will stay in Scotland and create jobs, which in turn will create more jobs.

    I can’t wait. It’s the most exciting thing to happen in my lifetime.

    Danny Alexander, or, as I’m sure he’ll be called sometime after the next UK election “Lord Alexander” is as much to blame as Clegg is. He should resign.

  12. Western “freedom” and “democracy” is for export only. They don’t like to practice such nonsense in the western countries.

    Iraq, like Libya was an Arab example of socialism and prosperity.” Now, Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan have become part of Stone Age – thanks to western greed and so-called “existential threat” to Israel. The next on line for regime change, are Syria, Iran, Pakistan and Somalia.

    http://rehmat1.com/2014/05/18/libya-and-western-humanitarian-mess/

  13. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    26 May, 2014 - 7:53 pm

    “Secondly, as nearly all the money will be spent in Scotland it is not a loss at all, but actually an increase to GDP,”

    and

    “As you say, the money will stay in Scotland and create jobs, which in turn will create more jobs.”
    _______________________

    On that basis (increased GDP, more jobs), would you recommend that the UK govt should create lots of new institutions in the non-Scottish UK?

  14. It does not represent an increase in GDP it’s a diversion of funds which will not then be available for other projects such as schools and hospitals.

    How much of the money will remain in Scotland is open to debate, they had to hire foreign contractors to build the Edinburgh Tramway, another mismanged project that went way over budget.

  15. Resident Dissident

    26 May, 2014 - 8:44 pm

    Craig

    Digging holes and filling them up would be a Keynesian stimulus – it doesn’t mean that the cost shouldn’t be identified and compared with alternatives which may have better multipliers and outcomes – my guess is that a lot of the start up costs will end up in the pockets of Edinburgh lawyers and IT suppliers. Or will an independent Scotland be run on some alternative model?

  16. Resident Dissident

    26 May, 2014 - 8:54 pm

    As an aside I think Danny Alexander reached the peak of his abilities when he was in charge of PR for the Cairngorms but I’m afraid quoting a figure probably provided to him by a civil servant hardly constitutes a particularly mendacious lie. Another example of playing the man rather than the ball I’m afraid.

  17. Tag team is here.

  18. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    27 May, 2014 - 12:07 am

    My congratulations to Original Troll Mary for not yet having inserted Israel/Palestine into this thread.

    Keep it up!

  19. As I said, tag team is in.

  20. Will [possible] Scottish independence one day be/come the antidote for the Broken Window Fallacy?

  21. doug scorgie

    27 May, 2014 - 8:24 am

  22. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    27 May, 2014 - 8:34 am

    Mr Scorgie

    Good mornng to you, nice to see you up and about. Since you have time to post about Danny Alexander you’ll no doubt have time to provide the various answers you own me from yesterday and the day before, won’t you Doug?

  23. doug scorgie

    27 May, 2014 - 8:37 am

  24. doug scorgie

    27 May, 2014 - 8:56 am

    Expect the US to interfere soon in the Yes/No debate.

    Undoubtedly on the side of the No campaign.

    “U.S. remains a wild card in Scottish independence vote”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/us-remains-a-wild-card-in-scottish-independence-vote/2014/04/12/6afb39f3-96d2-487a-ab4f-cde8de596424_story.html

  25. ‘Dysfunction in Nigeria’ thread is closed. For info:

    U.S. Trains African Commandos to Fight Terrorism

    WASHINGTON — United States Special Operations troops are forming elite counterterrorism units in four countries in North and West Africa that American officials say are pivotal in the widening war against Al Qaeda’s affiliates and associates on the continent, even as they acknowledge the difficulties of working with weak allies.

    The secretive program, financed in part with millions of dollars in classified Pentagon spending and carried out by trainers, including members of the Army’s Green Berets and Delta Force, was begun last year to instruct and equip hundreds of handpicked commandos in Libya, Niger, Mauritania and Mali.

    /..

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/27/world/africa/us-trains-african-commandos-to-fight-terrorism.html?ref=world&_r=1

  26. ‘Unpleasant and nasty’. Pot. Kettle.

    UKIP ‘not the answer’ to 21st Century issues says Blair
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27585260

    Almost makes you wish you voted for UKIP.

  27. The treasury and Alexander have been guilty of gross incompetence.You can hear the lack of conviction in his voice.Simply a talking head for this coalition of minority parties.
    It has been a Schadenfreude to see Clegg et al squirming at their total failure.Small revenge for his reneging on tuition fees.Long may that be remembered.
    The lies about Scottish Independence are dropped like silent farts and cause an untold stink.
    When the lies are caught out and debunked,never an apology or a retraction from the MSM.The stink is allowed to linger.
    None of the (old) big 3 parties grasp that there is a growing revolt to the revolving doors and gravy train for the boys.There is deep resentment to the EU and the powers that they’ve got.The EEC had the peoples support.It’S a friggin no brainer,but no-one wants to go back there.
    The more centralised things get ,the more corrupt they get and the less people power there is.And that is the ultimate goal.To empower the people,because as has been shown in the latest elections,they are not competent to vote the way they should.
    Syriza is a breath of fresh air in Athens.We need more of it and less of the knee jerk to the right.

  28. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    27 May, 2014 - 9:51 am

    DoNNY Darko

    “Syriza is a breath of fresh air in Athens.”
    ________________

    This seems like one of the usual lazy platitudes (Craig said something similar).

    Here’s a challenge : expand on that, with particular reference to the practical impact Syriza has had on political and economic developments and on the political and economic landscape in Greece over the past year or so.

  29. He knows he’s had it. Clegg that is. As the song said, You can feel it in your fingers, you can feel it in your toes….’

    Before https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRXJCp0cedFazcMHV2Q5YL-vWJAn-3l16S9c_PdY1y7_bo_U6nQjA

    After https://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/75108000/jpg/_75108785_75108329.jpg

  30. Came across this horror. You would think that the British Board of Deputies was a political party standing for election. Note the Israeli flag in the centre.

    A European Manifesto.
    http://www.bod.org.uk/content/EUManifesto.pdf

    A reference to it was included within:

    http://dissidentvoice.org/2014/05/why-boycotting-israel-is-so-important-and-necessary/

  31. Ba'al Zevul (Bounderby's Bastard Brother)

    27 May, 2014 - 10:22 am

    a lot of the start up costs will end up in the pockets of Edinburgh lawyers and IT suppliers.

    As long as they don’t outsource the work to G4S and Crapita, it can only be an improvement on UK government…

    Oh, and Price Waterhouse Cooper.

  32. “As the song said, You can feel it in your fingers, you can feel it in your toes….’”

    Beautifully expressed Mary :-)

  33. Banks lent £12.1bn last month in loans for mortgages. Up 50% on last year. When does the housing bubble burst?

  34. Mary have you read the Paul Craig Robert’s report on the Truthseeker? Also discussed on the Rebel of Oz.

    PCR seems to think that the future belongs to Russian, India and the East, which probably includes Australia, but only those Australians willing to ‘play the game’.

  35. Ba'al Zevul (Bounderby's Bastard Brother)

    27 May, 2014 - 11:27 am

    Expect the US to interfere soon in the Yes/No debate.

    Undoubtedly on the side of the No campaign.

    Hmm. If ‘Yes’ can get half the traction with Americans conscious of their Scottish roots that the IRA managed to do in the Boston MA area, I reckon that might be a dangerous prediction.

  36. Simply Speaking: “The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the people versus the banks.”
    -Lord Acton

  37. I am laughing out very loudly here. They are laughing in our faces. Was P Charles checking up on his assets and investments?

    Business Live: Lagarde attacks inequality and calls for more integrity in capitalism
    Highlights of Lagarde’s speech start here

    Inequality has risen “to the top of the agenda”
    Lagarde cites Churchill, JFK, Aristotle and Wilde….
    Photos: Prince Charles and Lady Rothschild consider inclusive inequality

    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/may/27/markets-unruffled-by-eu-elections-as-lloyds-announces-tsb-float-business-live

    Alderman Fiona Woolf, The Lord Mayor of London, Lady Lynn Forester De Rothschild, Chief Executive of E.L. Rothschild, Prince Charles, Christine Lagarde, Managing Director, International Monetary Fund.
    http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/5/27/1401186200758/13e4d2f3-91bd-41cd-a691-d713dae057fd-460×307.jpeg

    They pretend they care about our predicament. Lady Rothschild says all the right things. Clinton is there apparently. Not BLiar? $30 trillion of investments are in the control of this crowd.

  38. This is a strong argument for anyone opposed to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The “No” campaign will have to make the case for being “better together” in terms of prosperity more strongly if they are to win.

  39. Lazy platitude Habba ? No,
    Syriza is the canary in the coal mine.No one has been able to do anything yet in Greece because the Troika still pull the strings. Syntagma give the Police orders.
    I’m quite sure their army is still pretty right wing.
    Since the early 80’s Greece has been very left of centre with Pasok, but they capitulated under Papandreou. Before Greece entered the EEC a family could eat out 3 times a week at least.The EEC brought immediate benefits… the roads for a start were amazing.I suddenly did not need to spend 1 whole day visiting the aliens buro and health centre for my work permit.”Life was good”.
    As soon as the figures were fiddled to allow Greece into the Euro, life changed !
    Everybodies eyebrows raised when they were told Greece had met all the conditions.
    Sh**e !
    Syriza is a party independent of the old guard that “might” just change something when they get into power,or they could be the power broker in Constitution Sq.
    A breath of fresh air which Greece desperately needs.
    With power,they’ll default on debt and leave the Euro but not the EU.That’s what needs to happen,and that’s what I hope will happen.The other side of the coin is that Greece will slide toward Golden Dawn, and that would be malakias.

  40. Add to that the figure of 83& of all new car purchases are financed by one or other loan, Mary, on the never never, and you know why they work 60hour weeks to make ends meet.

    :-) babushka
    Simply Speaking: “The biggest feminist issue which has been swept down the plughole for centuries and which will have to be fought over sooner or later is male centred freemasonry in public services and the lack of equal decision making by them.”
    -citizen nevermind-

  41. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    27 May, 2014 - 3:41 pm

    Iraq, Afghanistan, Ukraine, and Scots Independence, it’s all the same.

    http://m.thenation.com/article/179986-western-media-coverage-ukraine-crisis-distorted-soviet-propaganda

  42. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    27 May, 2014 - 4:11 pm

    Fascism on the march once again. Elections cut the path.

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article38616.htm

    “India: Billionaires, Hindu Fascists and IT “Savants”

    The election of Narendra Modi, leader of the BJP and long-time member of the Hindu fascist Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) para-military organization was based on three essential components:

    (1) Multi-billion rupee funding from corporate India at home and abroad.

    (2) Thousands of upwardly mobile IT technocrats mounting a massive propaganda campaign.

    (3) Hundreds of thousands of RSS activists spreading the “Hindutva” racist doctrine among millions of villagers.

    The Modi regime promises his capitalist backers that he will “open India”– namely end the land reserves of the tribes, convert farmland to industrial parks, deregulate labor and environmental controls.

  43. ” As long as they don’t outsource the work to G4S and Crapita ”

    G4S, Crapita and that other supplier of PFI excellence Serco already have multi-billion pound contracts in Scotland. Despite the right royal cock-up at the Olympics G4S have been awarded a lucrative contract to supply stewards and security personnel for the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow later this year.

    I understand the MoD has cancelled all leave.

  44. doug scorgie

    27 May, 2014 - 4:50 pm

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !
    27 May, 2014 – 8:34 am

    “…you’ll no doubt have time to provide the various answers you own me from yesterday and the day before, won’t you Doug?”

    Please repeat the questions Habbabkuk; I’m not going to waste my time looking back on your posts to find out which questions I haven’t (apparently) answered.

  45. “£821,427,538.99, obviously. But the point is, that whatever the precise figure it will be a welcome Keynesian stimulus. The money is not lost. In fact it will have a substantial multiplier effect.”

    So you don’t know. You just assume the £1.5bn figure is wrong because you don’t like Danny Alexander and think it might harm the independence cause.
    As to the multiplier, if it were such a guaranteed route to economic success, why has unprecedented UK public spending in the past few years not resulted in unprecedented levels of growth?

  46. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    27 May, 2014 - 6:18 pm

    Mr Scorgie

    “Please repeat the questions Habbabkuk;..”

    _______________________

    I “couldn’t be arsed”, Doug (do you recognise that expression of yours?)since you would simply find another excuse or pretext not to answer.

    Do try to be a little less dilatory in future will you.

    **********************

    An answer a day keeps misleading comments at bay.

  47. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    27 May, 2014 - 6:22 pm

    Tom asks (correctly)

    “As to the multiplier, if it were such a guaranteed route to economic success, why has unprecedented UK public spending in the past few years not resulted in unprecedented levels of growth?”

    and this gives me reason to repeat a comment/question of my own going in the same direction :

    “Secondly, as nearly all the money will be spent in Scotland it is not a loss at all, but actually an increase to GDP,”

    and

    “As you say, the money will stay in Scotland and create jobs, which in turn will create more jobs.”
    _______________________

    On that basis (increased GDP, more jobs), would you recommend that the UK govt should create lots of new institutions in the non-Scottish UK?

  48. Leaving Afghanistan? Not really.

    US Troops To Stay In Afghanistan After 2014
    The US plans to keep nearly 10,000 troops in Afghanistan for two years after the war formally ends later this year, officials say.
    http://news.sky.com/story/1269994/us-troops-to-stay-in-afghanistan-after-2014

    That fact was not obvious in Obama’s speech when he made a flying visit recently. He referred to a ‘small number’ of troops remaining.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-27568872

  49. Establishment peer and former NATO secretary general, Lord Robertson is expected to amplify the Scottish independence ‘Project Fear’ manifold together with George Foulkes and John Reid, by forming a PAC to pull the wire with America to strong arm US institutions into resonating a global instability if the people of Scotland vote ‘yes’ to independence.

    They will attempt to break the American silence on Scotland I believe by using cataclysmic terms such as acute geostrategic consequences where the “forces of darkness” will seize the opportunity to create instability in the West from a paralyzed United Kingdom.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sRqyu6bnkg

  50. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    27 May, 2014 - 7:00 pm

    Mark Golding

    “They will attempt to break the American silence on Scotland I believe by using cataclysmic terms such as acute geostrategic consequences where the “forces of darkness” will seize the opportunity to create instability in the West from a paralyzed United Kingdom.”
    ______________________

    Apocalyptic and paranoid tosh from you, as so often.

  51. Habbakuk

    Mark Golding

    “They will attempt to break the American silence on Scotland I believe by using cataclysmic terms such as acute geostrategic consequences where the “forces of darkness” will seize the opportunity to create instability in the West from a paralyzed United Kingdom.”
    ______________________

    Apocalyptic and paranoid tosh from you, as so often.

    ——————————————————————-

    the usual shite with no links from billy nomates

  52. Well found Mark. I do not think I have the stomach for 1.5 hours of their stuff though. I understood it was being broadcast from the Brookings Institute one of the neocon nests.

    One of the comments.

    ‘Utterly sickening.
    I have never heard so many lies and fear-mongering in one presentation. The wonderful thing about the Referendum campaign is that, as a result, the Scottish people’s interest in these matters has been re-awakened and the majority of Yes supporters could refute every single point made by George Robertson….I also noted that he made no mention, to his basically American audience, of the British Governments Diplomatic approach to Russia’s Putin for support against Scottish Independence…as Burns wrote “Sic a Parcel o’ Rogues in a Nation”’

    ·

  53. I would never equate separatism with mass murder, but for my part I wouldn’t waste taxpayer’s money on either.

    I’m surprised by Mary’s mention of a British approach to Russia. I had never heard of it, but I find it astonishing. How could the British imagine that Russia would be interested? And how could they possibly expect any help from Russia at all? The Kremlin clearly doesn’t take the British government seriously – after all, I don’t; why should they? – and since all the hideous and ignorant things Cameron, Hague and Clegg have said (and possibly done) in respect of the Ukrainian situation I simply don’t understand how they have the brass neck to ask.

  54. “If tears could build a stairway, and memories a lane,
    I’d walk right up to heaven and bring you home again” ~ Allah Yirhamik ya Oumi

  55. All the politicians have failed the Eastern Ukrainians, Richard.

    Only the people of the world can save them…

    https://twitter.com/eshvedova2012/status/471392010755403776

    Notice the hashtag.

  56. Here’s another:

    https://twitter.com/ARTEM_KLYUSHIN/status/471061619163025408

    Isn’t this like Kosovo, but in reverse? I’m beginning to think that Blair might have got it partly right on that one (but you don’t need to bomb civilians to save civilians!).

  57. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO – If Scots want independence like Afghanistan, Iraq or Ukraine – they better stay in union with Britain – otherwise they will Ira all over Scotland.

    Food for thought: Why Rupert Murdoch favor break-up of United Kingdom?

    http://rehmat1.com/2012/03/04/murdoch-favors-break-up-of-united-kingdom/

  58. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    28 May, 2014 - 1:54 am

    Is Freedom cheaper than gas?

    http://www.caseyresearch.com/cdd/the-colder-war-and-the-end-of-the-petrodollar

    But before I explain why that is, let’s put this deal in terms we can understand. The specific details have not been announced, but my sources tell me that the contract will bring in over US$10 billion a year of revenue to start with. The 30-year deal states that every year, the Russians will deliver 1.3 trillion cubic feet (TCF) of gas to China. The total capital expenditure to build the pipeline and all other infrastructure for the project will be more than $22 billion—this will be one of the largest projects in the world.

    You can bet the Russians won’t take payment in US dollars for their gas. This is the beginning of the end for the petrodollar.

    The Chinese and Russians are working together against the Americans, and there are many countries that would be happy to join them in dethroning the US dollar as the world’s reserve currency. This historic gas deal between Russia and China is very bad news for the petrodollar.

    Through this one deal, the Russians will provide about 25% of China’s current natural gas demand. In a word, this is huge.

    It’s also not a coincidence that Putin sealed the deal with China before the Australian, US, and Canadian liquefied natural gas (LNG) terminals are completed. If you read our recent Casey Energy Report issue on LNG, you know to be wary of the hype about LNG’s “bright future.” Take note: this deal is a serious negative for the global LNG projects.

  59. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    28 May, 2014 - 2:12 am

    Rehmat; I cringe as Craig emphasizes Scot Indie as the new Atlantis. That Murdoch is aligned with the idea makes one ponder the reasons why. It’s almost as though Marx’s dialectic would supercede Hegel’s and forever cease swinging once it reaches the apex. I doubt Craig’s optimism could accept this fallacy.

  60. What it comes down to is nobody needs these fucking effete ass-kissing limeys. Certainly not the peoples of Scotland. The pressure is so inordinate because nobody needs these shit-for-brains Washington knuckle-draggers, either. Certainly not the peoples of Yankeedom, the First Nation, the Midlands, the Left Coast, el Norte, or New France. Self-determination for Scotland would give the viable nations of America subversive new ideas.

  61. Yesterday a large chunk of relevant discussion was deleted at the behest of Craig’s buddies in government. The iron hand of UK government has placed discussion of the war in Syria which it started for Israel by sending UK snipers to pick off people at random Off Limits.

    Crawling his way up the valet’s anus, Craig has taken a foppish, anti-Whig, anti-socialist stance in recent months over Ukraine.
    New Labour is now called the War Criminal party. The war crimes that have been committed by the civil wars in Libya and in Syria are off limits for the FCO in the run up to a general election.

    These ongoing crimes are the full responsibility of David Cameron, and I am sure they make very uncomfortable reading for the powers that be. Aangirfan recently found himself locked out of his blog for overstepping the line on high-profile paedophiles.

    Oh dear! Don’t let it go down in history that the last bastion of Conservatism in Scotland was former rectum of Dundee University, Craig Murray, who by skilfully editing the unpleasant truth about the Torer Fuhrer David Cameron, survived the blanket censorship of contemporary politics like the jolly old vicar of Bray, Sir!

  62. War criminals leave the scene of their crimes. Things didn’t work out so well for them.

    US tells its citizens to leave Libya amid unrest
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-27599301

    They are walking out leaving behind mayhem, chaos, anarchy and murder.

  63. What! No helicopters on the roof for the Yanks in Libya? Shame.

    RIP Hugh Van Es. Hugh Van Es, the photographer who took the iconic “helicopters on the roof” photo of the fall of Saigon, has died at 67:

    [Van Es’s] shot of the helicopter escape from a Saigon rooftop on April 29, 1975 became a stunning metaphor for the desperate U.S. withdrawal and its overall policy failure in Vietnam.
    http://neoneocon.com/2009/05/15/rip-hugh-van-es/

  64. On topic!

    Scots Independence Costs ‘Badly Misrepresented’
    Government officials are accused of being “crude” in their calculations – and of overstating a figure by 12 times.
    http://news.sky.com/story/1270290/scots-independence-costs-badly-misrepresented

    ‘The Treasury has “badly misrepresented” a study on the cost of Scottish independence, the academic behind the research has said.

    Patrick Dunleavy, a professor of politics at the London School of Economics, says that when Treasury officials used his research to calculate the start-up costs of independence, they overstated the figure by 12 times.

    The criticism is an embarrassment for Danny Alexander, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, who is due to present detailed figures on the economics of independence at an event described by Whitehall officials as a “major milestone” in the independence debate.’

  65. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were “strategic failures” which cost the UK £29 billion.

    Thus spaketh the Royal United Services Institute…

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10859545/Wars-in-Iraq-and-Afghanistan-were-a-failure-costing-29bn.html

  66. Ba'al Zevul (I THink, Therefore No-one Listens)

    28 May, 2014 - 8:25 am

    why has unprecedented UK public spending in the past few years not resulted in unprecedented levels of growth?

    I know the answer to that one. Because propping up the banks (which had they been in any other business would have been forced to declare bankruptcy) has actually reduced M(0): the basis of Keynes’ approach is that the ordinary punter should be encouraged to spend more. Since the ordinary punter had been spending like a drunken sailor, on his credit card, for the years leading up to the crash, and is now constrained, Keynes is powerless to influence the result. In any case, “growth” is an intentionally misleading term. If I transfer £1000 to your bank account every Monday, and you faithfully return it every Friday, we have between us grown the economy, under the current definition of growth.

    But nothing of value has been produced. The epitaph of the post-Thatcher economy.

  67. Ba’al 28 May, 2014 – 8:25 am

    It is encouraging to see that somebody understands the meaning of growth. But can you please transfer your £1000 to my account. Thanks. :)

  68. Ba'al Zevul (I THink, Therefore No-one Listens)

    28 May, 2014 - 8:39 am

    Ben – good one of yours @ 0212. Another good argument for the UK to revisit nuclear power.

  69. Ba'al Zevul (I THink, Therefore No-one Listens)

    28 May, 2014 - 8:57 am

    But can you please transfer your £1000 to my account.

    Just give me your account details and PIN number, no problem…actually I hope to be supporting the engineering industry with it, as I need to get my latest bike’s clutch modified. Sorry.

  70. Horrific pictures on RT. The Kiev Nazis are slaughtering old women, by the looks of it. Of course not a cheep from the BBC. What a shameful organisation, so in tune with neo-con thinking now.

  71. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    28 May, 2014 - 9:36 am

    Mike

    “The Kiev Nazis are slaughtering old women,”
    __________________

    Perhaps the fascist thugs and gangsters fomenting secession in eastern Ukraine should be denounced for deliberately putting women, children and old people in the firing line for propaganda purposes (and against their will).

    ***********************

    Support the Take Mikes to the Firing Line Campaign

  72. Oh, you are a naughty little imp, Habby!

    Good to see you haven’t lost your edge. I was starting to worry about you, for a while.

  73. Terrible slaughter in Donbass Oblast, 100 dead, and Pravy Sector and other extreme fascists in control of military. No peaceful future. How much better it was under Yanukovich. The US has brought nothing but death to Ukraine.

    http://nsnbc.me/2014/05/27/ukraines-poroshenko-promises-war-100-killed-in-kievs-new-campaign/

    Here’s one for Craig, the chocolate manufacturer who is pummeling the Donbass region, is also exploiting slave labour in West Africa for his chocolate supplies.

    http://nsnbc.me/2014/05/28/poroshenko-ukraines-candy-king-sticky-fingers/

    Despite the trolls on this blog who glory in the death of ordinary people and attempt to misplace the blame, the people in East Ukraine know who is responsible for the slaughter, and will remember what it was like with the former government before the fascist took control. I see people making comments who have shown themselves to be against the German holocaust against Jews but in favour of other holocausts figure-headed by Jews.

  74. Another war in Europe, 100 people killed and more injured in bombing ,strafing runs by helicopter gunships and it didn’t even make front page news.Doesn’t even make it to the memory hole.It just didn’t happen.
    Not a peep from Hague.Guess he thinks Willie Wonka is doing the right thing and that all civilians that don’t like chocolate are terrorists & Donbasstards.

  75. Ba'al Zevul (I THink, Therefore No-one Listens)

    28 May, 2014 - 10:17 am

    It’s not white hats vs black hats, John. Both sets of hats are a dirty grey. It’s unklikely Poroshenko would be shooting if he hadn’t made reasonably sure that Moscow wouldn’t get deeply involved first. In fact I’d be interested in your source for the 100 dead. The pro-Russians appear to have looted and burned a hockey stadium (why?) and there’s a pro-Russian miner’s demo of some sort, but I’m not getting Kievists running wild at the moment. Links please.

  76. YouKnowMyName

    28 May, 2014 - 10:21 am

    Yes Jives: The Iraq & Afghan wars that cost UK £29B & over 100,000 collateral dead, according to RUSI, who also commented “Today, AQAP and other radical jihadist groups stretching across the Iraqi-Syrian border, pose new terrorist threats to the UK and its allies that might not have existed, at least in this form, had Saddam remained in power.”

    This rings true as whilst recently landing in the UK at a small regional airport, I was surprised to see 2 hardline “border police” officers, **after** passport control, obviously scanning the tourists for returning jihadis. Good Luck MI5 – you can tidy the blowback up!

    For Guano: I noticed a perturbation of some parts of the internet in February 2011, when (fake) anonymous hackers called Telecomix popped-up to support (cause or effect?) the wide Arab Spring with phone/fax/modem numbers in Hamburg, Stockholm & Paris.

    Syria DEFINITELY wasn’t a UK-SIS/Cameron-led operation. I suppose they/he might have been consulted as the widespread Color revolution teams got under-way sometime in 2010, but “discussion of the war in Syria which it(UK) started” (actually didn’t start) is obviously allowed as no-one has yet deleted this post

  77. Danny Boy is giving a press conference being carried by Sky. He looks rather shifty and uncomfortable. He says that it will benefit every person in Scotland by the sum of £1,400 to stay in the union.

    PS Is he the son of Lord Robertson? Some similarities. Only joking.:-)

  78. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    28 May, 2014 - 10:34 am

    Mary

    “Danny Boy is giving a press conference being carried by Sky. He looks rather shifty and uncomfortable.”
    _________________________

    I’d give a lot to see your mug of a morning, Mary, when your eyes alight on the latest turpitude of the West as relayed on online BBC Radio 4. Pure joy, I should imagine! :)

    Have a great day now!

  79. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    28 May, 2014 - 10:45 am

    Mr Goss

    “Despite the trolls on this blog who glory in the death of ordinary people and attempt to misplace the blame, the people in East Ukraine know who is responsible for the slaughter,…”
    ________________

    Not glorying in the death of ordinary people, John, just standing up to the Big Lie as propagated by stool pigeons like you by putting the blame where it actually lies, ie, with the fascist bully boys and Mafia-style thugs attempting to create havoc in eastern Ukraine (aka, laughingly, as “separatists”)~. Even rasPutin seems to have abandoned them (and rightly so).
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    “I see people making comments who have shown themselves to be against the German holocaust against Jews but in favour of other holocausts figure-headed by Jews.”

    _______________

    You’re not getting back to that old idea of yours that the ousting of the corrupt, authoritarian, thuggish Yanukovich was all a Jewish conspiracy, are you?

  80. NATO-sponsored death squads. Black hats. Nazis.

    Simple.

    http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.ca/2014/05/ukraine-sitrep-may-22th-1932-utczulu.html

  81. @Ba’al: I agree with you that Putin is strangely quiet and unsupportive of the Donbass people at the moment. That doesn’t make it right for Kiev to launch or even threaten to launch a “shock and awe” on its own people just because they can, any more than it was justified to bomb Baghdad or Belgrade because their leaders were murderous dictators. I notice that “EuroMaiden” now saying that #SaveDonbassPeople” is just the work of Russian Trolls.

    Regarding the chocolate billionaire.. in true Berlusconi fashion, he is the owner of a TV station, CANAL5. He said he would revoke it… now he seems to have changed his mind. In case you didn’t read my previous link, he has also helped to negotiate the use of land across the Donbass for fracking with Joe Biden’s son’s company.

  82. @ John Goss

    That’s terrible John, what the hell is going on. It’s all politics and it’s corruptions.
    Get round the table quick! And seek diplomacy!
    There should be no borders just evaluations and outcomes!

    Danny Alexander on Nick Cambell just after 8am this morning.

    Big up for Nicky Cambell.

  83. Ba'al Zevul (I THink, Therefore No-one Listens)

    28 May, 2014 - 11:02 am

    Peacewisher –
    No, Poroshenko isn’t very nice. Neither’s Putin. Pity, that. It would be so nice if everybody was nice. On the realpolitik front, if armed opponents of the state as presently constituted decide to occupy a major airport, and if their foreign supporters have recognised the legality of the present state, then in the interests of sending a clear message as well as retaining a vital transport hub, the state IMO has a right to use force majeure. Don’t want to get shot at? Don’t occupy airports. Even Putin understands that.

    Remember Chechnya?

  84. Danny Alexanders figures are wrong. They are wrong by a factor of 12.
    This has been picked up by Sky and reported in the FT.
    What prominence will this be given by the BBC I wonder, very little I suspect unless Farage has some comment to make about it.

  85. I agree, Ba’al, and they are both politicians so no surprise there. Taking the airport at that time was stupid, but it shouldn’t bring about the bombing of civilian areas. I know there are terrible things going on in other parts of the world, but terrifying your own civilians on a mass scale like this is absolutely not the way a newly-elected leader should behave.

  86. Habbabkuk,

    Fascinating you taking on the mantle of exposing the Big Lie when most of the time you and your fellow NeoCon claqeurs and tag team troll buddies spent most of your time here defending the real Big Lie of our time.

    You Panglossian fool.

  87. @ jake

    Although should Danny Alexander be commended for standing by his party and leader and arguing for that which he is in no doubt would be the best for his comrades.

    Danny Alexander should be commended.

  88. Ba'al Zevul (I THink, Therefore No-one Listens)

    28 May, 2014 - 12:10 pm

    …terrifying your own civilians on a mass scale like this is absolutely not the way a newly-elected leader should behave.

    No indeed. Wonder where he got the idea?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War

    …though ‘elected’ might be putting it a little strongly in Putin’s case. Newly, yes.

  89. Tony Blair’s Sissi in Egypt has just extended voting to an unprecedented third day because the turn out has been too low to lend legitemacy to his election.
    This is a system that the EU has not thought of yet,the election marathon. Just keep voting until you are past some post.
    Who said unpopularity should get in the way of winning democratically ?

  90. “Some were confused by the latest bout of radiosilence emanating from the Kremlin in the aftermath of both the “Chocolate King” winning the Ukraine presidential election, and the most recent escalation of fighting in self-proclaimed as independent Republic of Donetsk, in which more than 50 “separatists” were killed. This ended moments ago when the Russian foreign ministry issued a press release that it has received appeals for humanitarian aid from the “conflict zone” in east Ukraine, and that more importantly, it is is ready to the “provide the population with the required assistance’.”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-28/russia-tells-kiev-it-ready-provide-humanitarian-aid-east-ukraine

  91. Ba'al Zevul (I THink, Therefore No-one Listens)

    28 May, 2014 - 1:43 pm

    Blair update: he’s in/ just been to Berlin. Why? Think EU Presidency, again.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2641199/Tony-Blairs-rank-hypocrisy-He-threw-open-Britain-millions-immigrations-sneers-Ukip.html#readerCommentsCommand-message-field

    That guy hates Blair almost as much as I do…

    PS, this survey wasn’t done in a Ramsgate pub, obviously –

    http://www.natcen.ac.uk/news-media/press-releases/2014/january/more-than-3-in-4-want-reduction-in-immigration/

  92. Ba'al Zevul (I THink, Therefore No-one Listens)

    28 May, 2014 - 1:45 pm

    This ended moments ago when the Russian foreign ministry issued a press release that it has received appeals for humanitarian aid from the “conflict zone” in east Ukraine, and that more importantly, it is is ready to the “provide the population with the required assistance’.”

    Poroshenko is obviously a man Putin can do business with. Stress business.

  93. Dreoilin @1.26

    I’m sure that aid will include a few Manpads as well, if they are not already being driven into the country late at night, in rusty old Ladas.

  94. I am unconvinced that most of the startup money will stay in Scotland.

    Take for example, the IT infrastructure costs. To bootstrap a new bureaucracy, you will need servers, networks, software, terminals, etc.

    Since you are in a hurry, you will likely end up going for off the shelf solutions from the large systems integrators (so everything works together). This means buying large quantities of boxes and cables (made in China, but from companies traded on the NYSE). You then hire armies of international consultants (because Scotland does not have the spare IT people to put it all together in the time frame you want to boot strap Scotland.)

    Therefore, a lot of the money spent on setting up the IT systems will leave Scotland. (and the IT systems will be thoroughly penetrated by the NSA and its English friends).

  95. I noticed that they were using those see-thru perspex ballot boxes in the oligarch’s election.

    Seems that’s standard practice in Ukraine.

    What has surprised me is that habby and his groupies haven’t been complaining about them as they did when they were used in the Crimea.

    Funny, that.

    Seems they just invent things to get excited about. Total fraudsters.

  96. I never saw it before but Russia Today has shown footage of a school that was bombed by Willy Wonka’s forces (fortunately no casualties). Wonka said “The suspense is terrible – I hope it lasts”.

  97. Gallows humour, John. It’s the only sane response.

    Maybe they’re using UN helicopters to murder old women. Another useless organisation that only jumps when America says so.

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