The Absence of Liberalism

by craig on July 11, 2014 3:17 pm in Uncategorized

The overruling of a European Court judgement to assert individual privacy, and the anti-democratic rushing of emergency legislation through parliament where no emergency exists, are the antithesis of liberalism. So of course is the jettisoning of all the Lib Dem manifesto pledges on civil liberties.

It is not news that Nick Clegg has become the poster boy for a politics utterly devoid of principle, organised purely around the desire of individual politicians for wealth and power. But even with all that background, I found Clegg’s enthusiastic ratcheting up of the fear factor over the “need” to protect us from virtually non-existent threats, utterly reprehensible.

At his press conference with Cameron, Clegg actually quoted the non-existent “liquid bomb plot to bring down multiple planes” as the reason these powers were needed. He even made a direct claim that telephone intercepts had been instrumental in “foiling” the “liquid bomb plot”. That is utterly untrue. The three men eventually convicted had indeed been under judge approved surveillance for a year. In that year, they made no reference to a plan to bring down airplanes, because there was no such plan. The only “evidence” of a plan to bring down multiple airplanes came from a Pakistani torture chamber. There never was a single liquid bomb. 90% of those arrested in the investigation were released without charge or found not guilty.

The three found guilty had done little more than boast and fantasise about being jihadis. That is not to say they were nice people. They may even have done some harm, though if Clegg were in any sense a Liberal he would not be supportive of imprisoning people in case they one day do some harm. But they had never made a liquid bomb or made a plan to bring down multiple airlines.

The point is, that while any ordinary member of the public could be forgiven for believing in the Liquid Bomb Plot, given all the lies of the mainstream media, Clegg has to be aware that he is spreading deliberate lies and propaganda to justify this “emergency legislation”.

Still more ludicrous was the failure to address the elephant in the room – Snowden’s revelation that the NSA and GCHQ indulge in vast mass surveillance, of the communications of millions of people in the UK, with absolutely no regard for the legal framework anyway.

In the last few weeks there has been a concerted effort to ratchet up the fear of the extremely remote possibility of a terrorist attack. We have seen, as first lead on the news bulletins and front page headlines, the jailing of two young men for “terrorism” for fighting in Syria, when there was no evidence of any kind that they had any intention of committing any violence in the UK. We have the absolute nonsense of the mobile phone in airports charade. We had days of the ludicrous argument that ISIS success in Iraq will cause terrorist attacks in the UK. Now we have the urgent need for this “emergency legislation”.

Why is the fear ratchet being screwed right up just now? What is this leading up to?

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  1. Seems that our masters have screwed up royally aboard and at home, and they are becoming afraid of the fallout.

  2. The absence of liberalism aka the presence of fascism.


    11 Jul, 2014 - 3:59 pm

    ” What is this leading up to?”

    It is vital that the status quo experience no Bear markets so that commerce is uninterrupted. The window-dressers want the public to feel safe to continue shopping and traveling.

    But it’s also handy as a cattle-prod nudging us all toward the trending capitulation of our civil rights, in the event of a major attack, as we’ve seen in recent history. It works very well.

    Shoe bombs and underpant ordnance make people laugh, but this guy is quite creative and could have reached an arc of design.

    There is a lot of people who think he’s been enabled, encouraged and abetted by certain State players.

  4. The answer to your last two questions: A “state of emergency” called with troops deployed at major airports and tearful explanations from Cameron and other British nationalists that only a “united” kingdom can save us from terrorist cataclysm.

  5. You forgot to mention the water cannon in London…

  6. I was listening to some plummy-voiced suit explaining to Radio 4 that the reason “we” (that ersatz inclusiveness again: you’ll be seeing much more of it) were experiencing a “recovery” from the towering clusterfuck the bankers and hedge funds landed us (no quotes there) in, was that our workforce had become more ” flexible”. Hands up anyone who doesn’t know what that means. Ok, Timmy, I know you sometimes have trouble with these advanced concepts. Think “desperate”.

  7. I couldn’t agree more, Craig, regarding the Emergency Legislation, and I can’t understand why more people aren’t making a fuss. Do we want to be a country with a semblance of democracy or become East Germany?

    It is clear that our MPs no longer represent our interests, as one person said very articulately on Question Time last night, although his answer was cut short.

  8. This could also making people think twice about coming forward as whistleblowers or victims regarding the child abuse in high places inquiry.

  9. Once the IRA threat was gone, London needed to invent a new “existential threat”. Thanks to Israeli Mossad UK got 7/7 and the US 9/11 to depict Muslims as the new threat. The latest threat to British national security came from French comedian Dieudonne M’bala M’bala.

    Long live the Queen of England and Canada.

  10. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO – could you ever post some objective source than Israeli Hasbara Wikipedia to support your claim?

  11. As a friend rightly pointed out – if it’s OK for the government to attempt to intervene in Syria on the side of the ‘rebels’ then isn’t it slightly duplicitous for private citizens not to be able to make their own minds up?

    Here’s larks – can anyone remember Cameron’s pledge to have a Great Repeal Bill? No, me neither, me neither.

    Cheers Craig

  12. @Rehmat: Perhaps like me you grew up in the UK at a time when we didn’t have an “existential threat”. I thought the anti-Irish legislation in the mid-1970s was over the top, for something that only affected the tiniest minority, and as I remember it, that was “only” 24 hours detention without charge. How things have changed since then!

  13. You have to hand it to them… a 7-Day online shopping outfit just advised me, via email, to buy their “Emergency Powerbank Chargers – avoid your electronics being confiscated!”

  14. @Glenn: Just think how well surveillance cameras manufacturers have done out of this in the last 10 years.

  15. Keith Crosby

    11 Jul, 2014 - 4:27 pm

    It’s not the absence of liberalism, it’s the essence. When liberalism, the ideology of the boss class, ceases to protect their privileges, it mutates into Stalinism and fascism, the bastard C20th and C21st children of John Stuart Mill (“… of his own free will, paid for by millions of dead Africans, Asians and Irish….”)


    11 Jul, 2014 - 4:28 pm

    “could you ever post some objective source than Israeli Hasbara Wikipedia to support your claim?”

    I’m using the link for general info on the man. What information do you object to, or is it just the source? It had nothing to do with my ‘claim’.

  17. I’ve just been informed via tannoy that anything I leave unattended could be destroyed by the security services. And we’ve been putting up with this for years now. Is it going to be worse than East Germany?

  18. “What is this leading up to?”

    I guess we’ll find out soon enough. The legislation expires in 2016.

    If it’s as reasonable as is being made out by all main parties then there#s no good reason for railroading the legislation through without proper scrutiny and debate. That’s precisely what happened with the Patriot Act in the US.

    There may be some small, innocuously-worded provision in there that is actually very nasty and we’re not allowed to know what it is until it has become law.

  19. Very early after this was announced I posted a comment that occurred to me. To the effect that this happened just after the paedos in parliament ordure began to hit the fan. I still think this is a key part of it. Dan Huil 4.00 p.m. is very interesting indeed.

  20. A dissapointing politician? How surprising.

    Clegg’s recent betrayals are nothing new and but peanuts compared to others before. One hundred years ago the party was split as grass root members denounced Asquith and Churchill for embracing WW1. We all know how that turned out.

    Of course Craig’s latest favourite party, the Green Party, is just another compromise and corruption machine.

    The party system is fundamentally flawed to be hijacked by those pursuing wealth and power. Rare individuals who resist temptation are marginalised or compromised. Maybe you’ve noticed.

    No more endless disappointment! No more Groundhog Day Lala Land! Social democrats, abandon your faith, embrace the revolutionary bubbling underneath! Radical decentralisation now!

  21. If Craig, and a few others, think this is the sort of thing that won’t happen in an independent Scotland, Kenny MaCaskill’s words on the matter bear repeating-

    A rough translation –
    1. Why did youse feckers not keep me in in the loop on this ?
    2. No matter, when we’re running our own show we’ll legislate for something very similar.

    It’ll be interesting to see how the SNP, and the other ‘minor parties’, vote on this at Westminster. Caroline Lucas from the Greens will almost certainly vote against, but will the others ?

  22. Weekend Edition July 11-13, 2014

    The Return of George Orwell and Big Brother’s War
    On Israel, Ukraine and Truth

    The other night, I saw George Orwells’s 1984 performed on the London stage. Although crying out for a contemporary interpretation, Orwell’s warning about the future was presented as a period piece: remote, unthreatening, almost reassuring. It was as if Edward Snowden had revealed nothing, Big Brother was not now a digital eavesdropper and Orwell himself had never said, “To be corrupted by totalitarianism, one does not have to live in a totalitarian country.”


  23. “Still more ludicrous was the failure to address the elephant in the room – Snowden’s revelation that the NSA and GCHQ indulge in vast mass surveillance, of the communications of millions of people in the UK, with absolutely no regard for the legal framework anyway.”

    This is what it’s really about. Our special relationship with the power that, via the UK and other country members of the 5 eyes, are spying on everybody including their own citizens. Germany, the leading power in Europe, wants out of this having discovered that it is one of the main targets, and is acrrying other countries with it (excepting the UK). And following NATO’s sponsored war in Ukraine which is not all that far from Germany, coupled with what everybody has seen NATO do in the Middle East, there are justified fears that the US intentions are to create a world of failed states because of its own wanked-out economy. Wake up world!

    As to the dissenters who said that to hold a referendum in Eastern Ukraine in weeks, are pretty quiet over this undemocratic porcess in our own country. Last night Hazel Blears was on Channel 4 News defending this rushed-through law. Of course she supported the war in Iraq too. It demonstrates that we have no main party in parliament that represents civil libertiies any more. The state of my country has become a disgrace.


    11 Jul, 2014 - 6:08 pm

    ” One of my aims in doing so was to ensure that there was a radical left faction in the party constantly pushing it in a progressive direction ”

    I sense that ‘progressives’ over there are similar to those here, Phil.

    They are jacked-in to the veracity of the system and want to change the direction mainly for voter reform and ethnocentric issues without a perspective on global issues. Maybe I should say they are less focused on World matters because the local issues seem more controllable. Am I giving them too much credit?

  25. The court ruling was delivered that the EU directive for snooping on its citizens is invalid/illegal/prohibited in April. However the emergency “measures” are now being enacted and as Tom Watson put it; “its a stitch up”, further elaborating “all three parties have in secret come to an agreement to pass these emergency laws”.

    The draconian snooping and monitoring is now made legal to allay the fears of the Internet/Telecom service providers that are keeping every transaction record of every customer and handing it over to the SIS.

    The legal powers to snoop circumvent any probable or penitential law suit brought against these snooping corporates. Fact that the number of snooper corporations are around 784 (included the privatised Post Office) is the reason for such a bums rush to pass the emergency laws.

    The fear and loathing volumetric have been turned up a few notches in the due course and all the air passengers are to be frisked, groped, Xrayed, and their phone and laptops confiscated (there is a down turn in iwotsit market and there is a need for better sales figures) as well as the latest capture and charging of an arch tayrrorist Abdul Rahman Benhammedi

    … appeared at Westminster Magistrates’ Court accused of possession of an article for a purpose connected with terrorism.

    The charge relates to a USB memory stick containing sniper training manuals, the court heard.

    Although for some reason the medjia has been pretty much staying away, and the story does not seem to get much traction.

  26. Craig, the government’s spokesfolk waffled last night about controls being put in place with regard to government spying.

    I do not know if the mosque does its own spying on the non=you/apne Muslims or whether they get their spydata from the police/local intelligence network, but in either case what I say to my wife in private in my own house is somehow relayed to them.

    I can understand how as newcomers to a society whose ancestors persecuted them it must give them a bit of adrenolin to be able to watch the shortcomings of us new Muslims either through the UK intelligence network or through their own IT knowledge.

    Fact is, there is no restraint on anyone who does not fear Allah, who has made spying Haram, or a worldly power that will physically restrain them. Am I saying that the Muslims only understand force? Yes, but they want to be on the side of force, not the receiving end.

    The punishment mentioned in the Qur’an for those who have the knowledge of the truth of Islam, but who do not follow the good example of Islam, nor do they teach those who have never seen Islam that good example is Double Punishment.

    And it is also mentioned in the Qur’an that those who will be in the worst situation on the Day of Judgement is those knowledgeable people who thought they were on guidance, but who oppressed the people secretly and openly, thinking that they were immune from observation by Allah and from His punishment.

    If the Muslims are doing it, and the Corporate business are definitely doing it, I am convinced that all rungs of government are definitiely utilising the information gathered from spying to nefarious and illegal ends.

  27. Craig,

    You are rising in my expectations. I just wish you would “come out” about 9/11. I do realise the risks to you if you did, and why so few people have. Whilst “Liberalism” may be dead so far as The Psychopaths who think they are in control of us are concerned, whilst they bomb themselves…or rather bomb millions of innocent people around the world in our name…in every way conceivable…the concept of liberalism and basic human “Christian Charity” for want of a better word…as strange as that may seem…is alive and well, and demonstrably so at the personal level. The vast majority of people do their best to completely ignore these horrible people in power. I can understand why. Apologies etc…

    I wish you well.


  28. The apparatus of government spying is available to all schools and all major employers and employment agencies, to any of those custodes who have no custodes over them. Those who utilise spying have no faith, because it is forbidden, so it follows that they have no faith to prevent them from the temptations of abusing the power of spying. People of faith do not indulge in this particularly dirty sin.

  29. Court Jouster

    11 Jul, 2014 - 6:44 pm

    ”What is this leading up to?” Why at this moment?

    It can only mean one thing, the “YES” vote is winning, they have to find a way to void the September date with a view to keeping it in permanent deep freeze.

    But how? CMs court jesters from the false flag fraternity are keeping their heads well below the parapet, no clue there then?

  30. Any sign of tighter or more heavy-handed “security” on Scotland – rest-of-UK flights in particular?

  31. Guano,

    I am kind of with you, except that I don’t do religion. I do however respect anyone who does do religion, providing religion is done in its purest original form, which is one of love, rather than control. As strange as this may seem (I gave up my Catholic religion at the age of 15 on moral grounds), I do believe in the power of prayer (I also love the most blessed Music of The Muslim Call to Prayer – it is just as good – and strangely very similar to Gregorian Chant)…

    So can I ask you to pray for someone I haven’t seen for 34 years, and have had almost no contact with in all this time. I am blessed with a wonderful wife and family. So is she. She was very nearly my wife, but something happened to pull us apart. We had never betrayed each other, and I have never betrayed my wife. I have told my wife that we got in contact again via Facebook. I have spoken to her once on the telephone. Today she sent me a message. She is not well. Please pray for her to get better. If you understand these things at this level…you do not need to know my name, nor hers…that’s how these things work. Don’t ask me to explain…I have already told her, that lots of people are praying for her, and that she will get better. Yes, she is going through the entire conventional diagnosis and treatment. I insisted…that rather being fobbed off by her doctor to insist on seeing a consultant…and she has. She may not have cancer…the results are not yet in…and even if she has…it may well be curable…with the help of our prayers (well they won’t do any harm).

    Thank You, and God Bless


  32. There’a a Liberty campaign to encourage people to write to their MP about this deplorable “emergency” legislation. I sent the following to mine this morning. I have little expectation of more than her immediate automatic reply – but worth at least warning staff who handle constituency correspondence of this impending epidemic of infectious spinelessness. My subject line was:

    “Urgent – please reject the Home Office’s “emergency” legislation”

    “Dear Mrs Jowell

    I write as a constituent, to express deep concern at the Coalition’s declared intention to rush through “emergency” laws compelling phone and internet providers, in flagrant breach of the (mandatory) Court of Justice ruling in April, to collect and retain blanket and indiscriminate records of our personal communications data.

    It would require extraordinary primary legislation for the existing permission of limited phone-tapping and mail interception (carefully circumscribed by judicial authority) to be transformed into a system in which agents of the state were allowed to intercept all UK postal mail and record the dates and frequency of all messages or parcels being sent to all addressees. The same goes for the addresses from which they are sent if that meta-data is on the outside – as I do with all my letters and parcels in order to facilitate their return, unopened, if they prove to be undeliverable. The collection of such postal mega-data would also require a ludicrous and immoral misuse of resources, both sufficient reasons never to contemplate such legislation. Until now The Queen’s subjects have enjoyed security of personal communication, perhaps protected by Her head on UK postage stamps.

    Its being easy to collect and retain such mega-data in the case of electronic communications makes that neither desirable nor any less a misuse of resources. I do not wish legislation passed that will impoverish and endanger civil society, promoting a burgeoning but unproductive economy in which the fastest growth is of numbers in the state and private security sectors, staking out the grounds of every citizen, making the Englishman’s home not his castle but an electronically-paroled prison whose keys jangle from Westminster and Whitehall keyboards.

    The proposed measure offends deeply against a proper sense of ourselves as belonging within and being admired contributors to a European liberal tradition. More particularly, the manner of execution – a spurious emergency, conspiratorially contrived with Labour leadership support, to suppress debate and public accountability – strikes at the fundamental principles of parliamentary democracy and the rule of law at the heart of the British constitution.

    I plead with you, therefore, to resist this deeply disquieting further erosion of our civil liberties and cherished British values.

    I will not vote at the next general election for any political party which has whipped its members to vote in favour of this proposed legislation. However, I will make an exception for individual sitting MPs who defy their party whip in order to vote against this shameful legislation which distrusts ordinary citizens and allows the state to terrorize us and infantilize our institutions.

    Yours sincerely “

  33. Ukraine in turmoil. Poroshenko pledges to kill hundreds for every one of his fascist government’s losses. Very reminiscent of pledges and actions by Israel against Palestinians. Sorry, a bit off topic.

  34. “It can only mean one thing, the “YES” vote is winning”

    Not according to all the opinion polls of the last couple of years. Not much there to cause undue alarm in the City as far as I can tell:,_2014

    Don’t you think this might concern everyone on this island, not just the Scots?

  35. Tony Op

    Everybody will taste death. My sister is looking after a man with cancer and in the course of his latter stages of illness he left his worldly distractions and joined a church. Look how death focuses the mind on the reality of life which was totally inaccessible before.

    Islam goes further, by refining our understanding who to worship to just Allah/God, because it is He who sustains every atom of this planet and every moment of our consciousness. All of that is written in a record.

    People repent before death and all of us have plenty to repent for, but people don’t know where to go. The signposts have all been removed. As Jesus said about the rabbis: Matthew 23:12

    “Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.”
    [N.B. Nothing about taking power from government spy agencies here]

    13″But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.…”

    Please direct your friend to the Oneness of Allah, because belief in His Oneness and in his last messenger Muhammad SAW is the key to heaven and Heaven is a reprieve for all who sincerely believe in Him without any partnership with Jesus or Mary or any other thing.

  36. Skip the Advertisements if you want…though the Muslim Advertisement is Better Than The Gregorian One. Believe this or not, but I had the idea for what Youtube did a few years later, (3 years before)..and even Registered The Domain Name…but I thought If I do This..Publicising..Live Music…I will Get Sued To Hell. Do I Really want to end up in a Courtroom Facing an American Music? “Executive”.

    I Thought Nah…

    I will go For ANTHONY CHARLES LYNTON BLAIR instead

    I will Face That EVIL in a COURT OF LAW

    Now The Music..Seriously… Both are Really Good

    “Beautiful Islamic Call To Prayer”

    “Over 1 Hour OF Gorgeous Gregorian Chant -Chillout Megamix”


  37. Iain
    I am in a holiday field with a dying battery so cannot check but I am fairly certain the automatic systems record and keep all sorts of data about your post and packages. Have done for years enshrined in the grim RIPA laws.

    You write to your MP knowing it makes no difference. You say you will not vote for a complicit party then say you will. Ah the muddle of faith!

    The system is dead! Long live the system!

  38. John Pilger wrote on 13th May that the US is dragging us into war with Russia

    How long can Russia tolerate the destruction of eastern Ukraine?
    Perhaps the citizens of the UK feel detached from events in main land Europe but from my perspective its a stones throw away and it already looks as if allegiances might just be changing in preparation for something…

  39. The American Response

    “Van halen – Ain’t Talkin’ ‘Bout Love”

    The British Response

    “Motorhead – No Class”



    Are you saying that Netanyahu’s anti-Iran, anti-Syria, anti-Hamas, anti-Hizbullah – and anti-Abbas filth is a statement from Talmud?

    Take for example, last month, Netanyahu in his first comment on ISIS victory in Iraq, said that Washington should stay out of the Iraqi conflict – and let the Sunni militants defeat the Shia-dominated government of prime minister al-Maliki and break-up Iraq. “This will weaken Iranian influence in the Arab region,” said Netanyahu during his address at Tel Aviv University’s INSS think-tank.

  41. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    11 Jul, 2014 - 8:40 pm


    “What is this leading up to?”

    I suppose that this refers to the immediate consequences of what you call the fear ratchet in the previous sentence, but allow me to use it to ask you a more general question.

    Do you share the often-expressed opinion of various commenters on this blog that the UK is either already a “fascist state” or that it is rapidly turning into one?


  42. Phil – you say “You write to your MP knowing it makes no difference. You say you will not vote for a complicit party then say you will. Ah the muddle of faith!”

    Not “no difference”, even if slight. At least my MP’s staff will be logging the messages to her; and I even hope that an FoI request might reveal the number of messages to MPs asking them to vote for or to vote against this shameful legislation.

    Note too that there’s a tight condition attached to my voting for any party complicit in this legislation: that I would only consider doing so if my constituency MP has shown independence of judgement by rebelling against her party whip and voting against the Home Office’s draft “emergency” legislation. Why is that “muddled”?

  43. The Canadians Responded With American Woman – Guess Who…

    So I had retired and thought wtf is going on…and after The London Bombings..and I seriously Fell Out Well ….I Got Banned From The Very Pouplar English Website I had been posting on for Years…

    I wrote

    “All Terrorists are Cunts”

    this was the Headline after The London Bombings…when I thought My Wife Had Been Caught Up with Them…She was in London…when The Birds Went Crazy…as I Was watching it them..I didn’t know what had happened…but the Birds Did…It was The Ripple Effect…The Birds sensed The Evil on 7/7 and passed it on…

    I turned the Radio and The TV on..I tried to contact my wife…

    The Birds Knew – I had Never Seen Anything Like It…

    I Didn’t Hear The Explosions..But The Birds Did…


    So I thought how do I understand what is going on…

    I was Banned From The UK

    So I logged on To Alternet…In California in the USA..and I was there in their Virtual World..and I made Friends with Sister_Lauren…over the Years…I kept asking her to come over to the UK for a Festival or what..My wife is Really Nice..and we are used to people staying in our home and our tent…

    Then Nick Turse Got Appointed….Yes I know His History Too…and He saw what I had been writing for the previous 5 years…and he just Banned Me..and Deleted 5 Years Worth of what I had been writing from here…in England Trying To Make Friends and Understand Americans….

    “guess who- american woman”

    Sister_Lauren Has Almost Single Handedly Changed The Laws in The USA…

    And She is Still Invited To Our Home in The UK

    What a Girl


  44. ‘The answer to your last two questions: A “state of emergency” called with troops deployed at major airports and tearful explanations from Cameron and other British nationalists that only a “united” kingdom can save us from terrorist cataclysm.
    Maybe a False Flag at the Commonwealth Games which allows the Government to impose Martial Law and cancel the Ref?

  45. Be nice if the College of Europe were to strike Nick Clegg off their books. After all they are supposed to be supporting human rights and European institutions.

    Fat chance, though, I’m afraid.

  46. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    11 Jul, 2014 - 9:06 pm

    Nice quote from Nevermind on the “water damage” thread, which some of you might have missed:

    “I don’t think that Israel is innocent in the abduction and killing of its own teenagers/soldiers, it was their kind of mini 911 designed to garner publicity to Bibi’s policies,…”

    Anyone here agree with that, or care to comment? :)


  47. What they worry about is an attack on them. That’s why they put all those security measures round parliament after 9/11 and did nothing much to protect ordinary people. That’s why during the cold war they had shelters built for them and we didn’t.

    There is absolutely no measure that isn’t too great when its a matter of saving their wretched skins from the small terrorist threat they’ve created. By invading Afghanistan, and Iraq, and supporting Israeli occupation.

    Unfortunately its ordinary people who get targetted as on 7/7 anyway.

  48. John Goss 6.06 post

    You’re completely right.

  49. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    11 Jul, 2014 - 9:15 pm

    And from the one and only Mary, speaking on the Doune the Rabbit Hole thread:

    “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!”

    Sounds like the Hamas “Drive the Jews into the sea”, doesn’t it.

    Agreement with or comments on this, anyone?

  50. Slightly off topic – into the area of Neo-Nazism aka Ukraine which is aided by the Neo-Liberals / Neo-Cons / Neo-Scumbags.

    The Ukrainian military has been using multiple launch rocket systems against civilian targets in various towns such as Slavyansk. The varied nature of the urban terrain makes it difficult to appreciate the full impact of these systems. The Novorossian army has finally found a system of their own and used it as intended against a military target, in this instance the 79th Motorized Brigade. This site shows the effect of MLRS weapons. The 79th Motorized Brigade no longer exists as a functional military unit. This was one strike on one day unlike the day-in, day-out attacks the Ukrainian army perpetrated against civilians.

    There may be up to 400 dead in this strike. An awful way to go for the troops involved. However, they signed up for this, the civilians they targeted didn’t. The MSM are happily residing in das Wolkenkuckucksheim regarding Neo-Nazi Ukraine.


    11 Jul, 2014 - 9:21 pm

    Liz and Dick are beginning to look like a very strange couple.

    “America must win this war. We won’t defeat our enemies by retreating. We won’t win if we adopt a false narrative about the past, fail to learn the lessons of history, or seek security in disengagement and isolationism. We will only defeat our enemies if we are clear-eyed about the threat and have the will to do what it takes for as long as it takes—until the war is won.”

  52. @Habby:

    I object very strongly to your mocking of views expressed on this blog that relate to freedom of speech, the UN charter of human rights, what our forebears fought for in ww2, and “British”? principles that go back hundreds of years (see below).


    I’m not a legal expert at all, and need some help here, but I have a faint suspicion that the 1970s onwards anti-terror legislation runs counter to the principles laid down back in 1215. If so, how can a law just get passed by the House of Commons that ignores whether it is compatable with common law? I honestly don’t know, and would like to be enlightened, especially as it is the 800th anniversary of Magna Carta next year…

  53. Iain Orr,
    Is that an open source letter in your comment?

  54. The Irish Explained it to me as it is

    This song often gets played at most of the occasional parties My Wife and I still Have..We ain’t Dead Yet…

    Often The Reaction..I Turn it Up…is Complete Silence as They Listen to The Song..and if it ain’t…I turn it up LOUDER

    “Dead Can Dance – The Wind That Shakes The Barley”



    11 Jul, 2014 - 9:31 pm

    “If so, how can a law just get passed by the House of Commons that ignores whether it is compatable with common law? ”

    Peacewisher; If you look at Common Law (US Constitution is based on CL) versus Admiralty Law, you will find they use whichever is more convenient for their purposes. Admiralty Law is more imperious (the Captain’s power) but has no legal foundation in non-maritime issues.

    E.g; Vehicle codes are not Law, but the State is happy to have citizens believe so.

  56. Very close to tears, Tony. I didn’t know the real title. It is said that ladies with haunting voices like that still perform in pubs all over Ireland at the week-ends.

  57. Writing about the latest flap over NSA/CIA spying on Germany, today’s New York Times reported that, after the Snowden revelations last year, Berlin asked the Americans for a “no spy” agreement “similar to the one the United States has with the English-speaking victors of World War II: Britain, Canada, Australia and New Zealand”.

    Berlin claims that Washington promised to enter into negotiations over such an agreement, according to the NYT.

    “But…American officials say there never was such a promise, and that German officials blanched when they heard what kind of responsibilities they would have for intelligence collection and cyberoperations around the world if they ever joined that elite club”.

  58. YouKnowMyName

    11 Jul, 2014 - 9:44 pm

    technologically speaking,
    The current unwarranted over-collection of citizen correspondence, content, meta-data and general interests puts us all into digital pigeon-holes. Correlated, machine-analysed, Bayesian profiled, the military industrial complex is able to keyword search an entire year’s stored internet use of a whole UK size country, looking for individual keywords, drawing up lists, statistics, victims. There are also many distributed boxes around the world that can make real-time digital signature analysis of live streaming internet, looking for specific “scarfing” triggers, selectors. These boxes exist everywhere, even Malawi, the interception market is booming! The American Navy is being re-trained as cyberwarriors…

    At present, these unwarranted systems are used, at best, in Germany 50% for the spooks & 50% for the police, in UK it’s more like 99% of the product for the spooks as the intel product remains “hearsay” in UK courts. US NSA has obviously been the lead, using FBI as a front-man, inserting their technology into our society since the 1990’s, with back doors, bugdoors in everything, devices, software & infrastructure – if you can think of ten ways they might attack the internet – then their clever engineers have actually already found thirteen ways of abuse!

    Currently, I think the only effect in our society of these UKUSA ‘mastery of the internet’ ideas – is to freeze the evolution of devices, systems & infrastructure – slowing the developments to the next generation of devices. e.g. Microsoft universal messaging which was delayed until the appropriate NSA/ZNIS monitoring was devised. Likewise what should be the 5th Gen telephone (a digital decentralised mesh network topology, cheaper, safer, greener) is as yet unavailable.

    There remains the danger that as well as freezing the evolution of technology, that they might freeze the evolution of society, denying, disrupting the future radicals, with soft assassinations or just a subtle deprivation of benefits. I’ve no evidence that that is happening in the UK, with our current fairly average politicians. UK is still a nice place, my friends in gchq, hmgcc, ukntac are honest hard-working people.

    The near Future, with these enormously powerful but not yet understood dual-use weapons available, and the eventual rogue politicians driving it is one of my biggest worries. PRISM, XKeyscore, FoxAcid are currently (mostly) gathering data – but they can equally be used for instantly re-writing data, “deep packet injection”, that is a scary time when you can no longer trust what you’re reading – you ask for a WWW page – but there’s no guarantee, no trust, that the page anyone might see is the page that they asked for. It could easily have been manipulated in any direction, pro-this-faction, anti-the-other, in fact the whole UK population in 2020 might all have completely different ideas about who won that year’s election. Hmmm. Ubiquitous Digital Canary time!

  59. Thank you Iain for the pro-forma. I will send it to my MP.

    In about three weeks’ time I will receive a cream 1st Class envelope bearing the embossed HoC stamp containing a letter in reply printed on matching stationery which will consist of meaningless balm and attached to it a central office hand-out this time from Mrs May more than likely.

    I have quite a collection! Must have cost a fortune. I write via e-mail but the postal reply is probably used to make it more difficult to disseminate the contents.

  60. “There may be up to 400 dead in this strike. An awful way to go for the troops involved.”

    I agree and blame Yatsenyuk, Poroshenko, et al for these, as you say, military deaths. What a fine mess the US has got Ukraine into. I bet there is no decent person outside of Eastern Ukraine who would not want to go back to the days of Yakunovich. But the sad thing is Ukraine would have been a largely united country before western intervention and a senseless coup d’etat. Now Crimea is lost and very soon Eastern Ukraine will cede to and be accepted by Russia. When did the Yanks and NATO do any good, anywhere?

  61. Thank you, Ben. As it is called “The House of Commons”, one might assume that it’s purpose is to uphold the common law. More Orwellian inversion? The current name appears to be “The House of Uncommon Interests”.

  62. @John:

    I’ve a feeling that the US neocon wing won’t like to see it’s pet project in danger. There will be reprisals. They’ll want to take Crimea back to show their new best friends that they are more powerful than Russia, and I think some of them are probably crazy enough to play a poker game with “we win” and “ww3” as the possible outcomes. Israel must have their noses a bit out of joint with all this shift from them, and the focus on helping Poreshenko, who is probably killing more civilians than they are.

  63. طيزك حمرا.

    11 Jul, 2014 - 10:01 pm

    @Peacewisher, anti-terror law is the greatest! It even stops US aggression. In 1992, when the US was going to attack Libya for the Lockerbie bombing, Libya invoked the relevant law, The Montreal Convention, which has dispute settlement provisions. Since the US framed Libya for the Lockerbie bombing, it would have been kind of awkward when that came out, so the rough tough USA backed down like a little sissy bitch and ran home. No war!

    Now, the bullshit fake terror legislation that you see in pathetic little totalitarian statelets like North Korea or the UK, that’s different. Laws like that compromise the sovereignty of states. The world can intervene. The international community is obligated to make those shitty little states grow up and accept their responsibilities. The international community exerts mounting pressure, peacefully, through treaty bodies, charter bodies, special procedures and regional or bilateral capacity-building. The pressure is hidden from you as a citizen but you can see the US and the UK squirming and thrashing to escape it, if you know where to look.

  64. “If so, how can a law just get passed by the House of Commons that ignores whether it is compatable with common law? ”

    Habeas corpus, a basic of English law, although established in the seventeenth century, goes back in one form or another to the Magna Carta. Even in the late eighteenth century Treason Trials people suspected terrorists/plotters (mostly members of corresponding societies) were never held in captivity for longer than six months without trial. That is what makes recent anti-terror laws so wrong. The one introduced in 2000 shows that there was a plan to target Muslims long before NATO countries initiated 9/11, and it is this act that has just been used to hold a suspect with a USB stick allegedly containing sniper instructions.

  65. TTIP is an affront to democracy
    By Miriam Ross

    Prime minister David Cameron loves to portray himself as the defender of British sovereignty in his dealings with the EU. But as the volume of his anti-EU posturing increases, he is busy pushing for a deal that will hand the sovereignty of his country, and others, to multinational companies.

    The next round of negotiations on the EU-US trade deal (also known as the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership or TTIP) begin in Brussels on Tuesday 15 July. Talks started last July, and proponents of the deal seem to have hoped to rush it through with as little scrutiny as possible. They have been disappointed, as opposition to the deal has risen rapidly in both sides of the Atlantic.

    In the US, trade unions and Democrat congressmen and women have prevented President Obama from fast-tracking the deal. Campaigners in Germany forced the European Commission to open a public consultation on one of the most controversial proposals in the deal – a plan to set up corporate tribunals with the power to override the decisions of elected governments. Some 100,000 people responded to the consultation – the highest number ever recorded. And Belgian MEPs were among dozens of campaigners arrested for protesting against the deal ahead of the European elections.

    On Saturday 12 July, towns and cities across Britain will see health campaigners, environmentalists, anti-poverty groups and trade unionists protesting under ‘No TTIP’ banners.

    As the diverse array of people lining up to oppose it suggests, the TTIP deal would affect many different aspects of life. But the common thread connecting objections to the deal is this: ,if agreed TTIP would greatly diminish the ability of governments to make decisions for the benefit of their citizens. Democracy itself is under threat.

    The part of the deal that has most enraged critics is a plan to set up supra-national corporate courts, in which companies can sue governments over decisions they think might affect their profits – even where governments have clearly acted in the public interest. This may sound like the stuff of fiction, unthinkable to anyone with any faith the democratic progress. In fact, it’s already happening.

    Under similar parallel legal systems, tobacco giant Philip Morris is currently suing both the Australian and the Uruguayan governments for, respectively, introducing plain packaging for cigarettes, and daring to print health warnings on packaging. Veolia, the multinational waste and energy company, sued Egypt for introducing the minimum wage. And Argentina was sued for freezing energy prices to protect consumers hit by the country’s financial collapse.

    In Britain, campaigners fighting to defend the cherished National Health Service fear that if a future government tried to renationalize the parts of the service that have already been privatized, it would be sued. And the need for companies to even use these courts could melt away – fear of being hit for billions of dollars could prevent governments from implementing policies that might raise the ire of the boardrooms. As well as preventing governments from acting in the public interest in the future, the TTIP deal would also sweep away years of hard-won regulations designed to protect people and the environment. One of the key issues on the table in the Brussels talks will be food standards, which are generally set much higher in Europe than in the United States. US agribusiness wants Europe to drop its ban on hormone-treated beef and pork and chlorine-washed chicken, and the American companies that sell these products have US Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack on side.

    Financial regulation is another major battleground. Following the financial crisis, the US introduced an inadequate smattering of controls on its finance sector in an attempt to prevent another collapse. But the big banks see even this weak regulation as unacceptable, and are pushing for TTIP to knock it on the head.

    Over the past few years, more and more of us have started to see our governments as acting in the interests of the rich and powerful. The EU-US trade deal could be seen as something of a test case. If we are to drag governments back to our sides, to be accountable to the people they were elected to represent, the battle to stop the TTIP deal is one we have to win.

  66. Iain

    You are satisfied that a beaureaucrat logs something somewhere? It’ll make no difference to the law and how it will be used. Really, that’ll do? Could you be rationalising your complete insignificance in a system that you believe in.

    So your MP rebels but the law still passes. You will give her your vote and thus vote for the party that enacted this legislation. That is a muddle.

    The system is dead! Long live the system!

  67. Clark

    Wasn’t the Greenwald/Snowden sh*tfest suppose to make the politicians retreat from the surveillance state? How’s that working out?

    Anyway battery flashing red. Time running out. Gotta go.

  68. Resident Dissident

    11 Jul, 2014 - 10:30 pm

    What is going on in Eastern Ukraine from a more neutral source than those favoured by the useless idiot

    “The bulk of the abductions are being perpetrated by armed separatists, with the victims often subjected to stomach-turning beatings and torture. There is also evidence of a smaller number of abuses by pro-Kyiv forces.”

    There are no comprehensive or reliable figures on the number of abductions, but the Ukrainian Ministry of Interior has reported nearly 500 cases between April and June 2014. The UN Human Rights Monitoring Mission for Ukraine has recorded 222 cases of abduction in the last three months. ”

    The full report can be read here:

  69. Resident Dissident

    11 Jul, 2014 - 10:39 pm

    Did anyone notice how many Russians with past or current connections to the Putin regime were involved in the recent Tory fundraising shindig?

  70. “I’ve a feeling that the US neocon wing won’t like to see it’s pet project in danger. There will be reprisals.”

    Perhaps. Crimea has long been a naval base of the Russians and they will not let it go easily. Hopefully commonsense will prevail and Poroshenko and the other lunatics will see that they are in an unwinnable position. Eastern Ukraine will hate Kiev for years to come even if they get occupied. As you are a Peacewisher (me too) you will join me in hoping that this is an end to the madness!

  71. Talk of IDS getting the chop in a reshuffle plus Kenneth Clarke and Lansley.

    Esther McVey to replace IDS. Gawd help us in that case!

  72. ….. if you know where to look.

    Would you be kind enough to enlighten us all, as to where should we start at?

  73. RD, As you know I do not agree with torture whether it is the Eastern Liberation forces or Pro Kiev forces or your friends in Guantanamo and US Supermax prisons, or Karimov’s regime in Uzbekistan. The psyche behind torture is beyond me. But perhaps it has something to do with retaliation for the killing of civilians by those supportive of various factions.

    Retaliation in the form of torture is abhorrent. I am behind Amnesty in bringing this to our attention. How to stop it, anywhere in the world, is, like recourse to torture itself, beyond me.

  74. Clark

    Wasn’t the Greenwd/Snowden fest suppose to curb the surveillance state? How’s that working out?

  75. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    11 Jul, 2014 - 10:54 pm


    “I object very strongly to your mocking of views expressed on this blog that relate to freedom of speech, the UN charter of human rights, what our forebears fought for in ww2, and “British”? principles that go back hundreds of years ”

    Sorry you feel like that, Peacewisher. But I should be more inclined to sympathise with you if you could show me where I’m “mocking” those principles as such, as opposed to mocking the exaggerations, untruths, evasions and sloppy thinking of a good number of the Eminences squatting on this blog.

    “how can a law just get passed by the House of Commons that ignores whether it is compatable with common law?”


    Because statute law, as passed by Parliament, can supersede common law and “compatibility” with common law is not a criterion for statute law.

  76. Sorry repeating myself. Feel free to delete dip and this mods.


    11 Jul, 2014 - 11:00 pm

    “The pressure is hidden from you as a citizen but you can see the US and the UK squirming and thrashing to escape it, if you know where to look.”

    It’s an International secret, fedup. All we need is patience.

  78. By the way RD, whenever you get turned over in an argument, which is most of the time, you resort to attacking those who roll you on your back. You’ve done it before. It gains you no brownie points calling me a “useless idiot” but shows you up for what you are. I’ll let you work that one out.

  79. Glad I missed it.

    Question Time’s ‘passionate highlander’ is the William Wallace of the Better Together campaign

    The whole programme

    David Dimbleby presents Question Time from Inverness. Scotland votes on independence in September 2014, and the panel features campaigners for both sides from a range of occupations: singer-songwriter Ricky Ross, Daily Record columnist and agony aunt Joan Burnie, businessman and chairman of Orion Group Alan Savage, and the Scotland and British Lions rugby player Scott Hastings.

  80. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    11 Jul, 2014 - 11:08 pm


    John Goss’s post at 22h02 reinfirces my point, I think. Habeas corpus as it operates today derives not from common law or for that matter i any meaningful sense from the Magna Carta but from various Acts of Parliament, in other words, from statute law.

  81. Well of course I realise the problem and I am merely trying to document the event…We got old..but we didn’t lose our Love and Determination To Make Things That are Good Work…They Haven’t

    You Fuckers Are Completely Fucking Useless…

    You 50 Year Olds Are Not My Son’s Generation…and You certainly Aren’t Mine…

    What a Bunch of Completely Useless Twats…

    Nearly Everyone with Any Talent RESIGNED

    Smarmy without a Brain Cell Between You.

    Craig Murray..just about Crept In..Oh Come On You Can’t seriously Expect Us To Believe This Nonsense

    The Kids Are All Right.


  82. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    11 Jul, 2014 - 11:14 pm

    Mary re Question Time

    How many more times are you going to preface or end a useless bit of information about a BBC programme (in this case, who was on it) by saying “I did not listen” or “Glad I missed it”?

    Again the old question : what is the point??

    We might just conceivably be interested in hearing your views about something which may have been said, but why should we be interested to learn that you didn’t listen to a programme?


    As I said before, button up a little. Just a little!

  83. @John

    Of course I want peace. But in a world containing powerful people who seem to get satisfaction from the spilling of blood, the only lasting peace will be that obtained from a position of strength. Even with that, they’ll come back at you a few years later to test your defences.

    I was swayed towards a multilateral position regarding nuclear weapons as this simple fact penetrated my naïve mind. Is Russia strong enough to back up its taking back of Crimea? Even though they broke International Law to do so, I think they had little choice after the US intervened… without Crimea they probably wouldn’t have been strong enough to resist. Why take the risk?

    The way to avoid bloodshed regarding East Ukraine would probably have been for Russia to set up a no fly zone, which they probably wouldn’t get UN support for. Very bad for the Donbass people though. Interesting times, and we should always wish for a world where there are secure borders appropriately policed, and no country interferes in the affair of any other country. I think there was a song about this, and I think that song was in Brian Haw’s last hurrah, as he was dying of cancer in Germany.

  84. Thanks, John and Habby. If Statute Law is the more recent wording for Common Law, that gives me a useful place to start… bringing in emergency legislation like this cannot be right.

  85. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    11 Jul, 2014 - 11:22 pm


    “Doug, please stop quoting its idiot objections to everything everyone says.”


    NebelMind, please listen to what your Leader Ba’al said! You’re f***ing up his Habbabreak invention. Pleeeeze!

    (Just substitute “Ingo” for “Doug”)

  86. We have never met her..but we know her Dinner Teachers…and She is Watching …Oh Come on and Choose a Song…

    Which one would you like???

    Forgotten Already..or a song that The Girl..She Herslelf Wrote

    Now What Exactly Is Her Name???

    Did She Go To The Brit School??

    Am I invited to meet her?

    At Ruskin House??

    Will I Be There???

    Or Will Be at a Friend’s BBQ

    “Adele – Someone Like You”


  87. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    11 Jul, 2014 - 11:25 pm


    “If Statute Law is the more recent wording for Common Law,…etc, etc..”

    “The more recent wording”? You haven’t understood a thing, have you.

  88. Well…. this was considered a “best answer” on Yahoo Answer:


    Common law is a mechanism to bind people to a set of mores and traditions that reflect the common attitudes and preferences agreed by or acceptable to that society, statutory law is a mechanism to dictate to people how they will behave in that society whether or not it accords with their attitudes and preferences and whether or not it represents the common or majority view.

    Common law is a true expression of a democratic and fair government, Statute law is an expression of authoritarian and dictatorial government.”

    Anyone like to disagree with that final sentence?

  89. Peacewisher, every conflict ends up round a table. I agree with what you say about negotiating from a position of strength is what every negotiator wants. What I don’t agree with is that Russia broke international law in taking back Crimea – it was the will of the people by referendum. Stop watching MSM or reading comments by ESLO/Resident Dissident. :) There was also a lot longer period planned before the referendum than Cameron’s 2 day new law demanding that electronics companies retain our personal data to pass on to their governments and unaccountable secret services.

  90. @Habby: Law isn’t my thing. That’s why I’m asking all these dumb questions. And I can’t being wrong in the meantime, so please forgive my lack of understanding. Something just doesn’t seem right about the current legislation – even under statute law – but it’s clearly not right under common law.

    By all means correct me again…

  91. @John: Russia has broken International Law once, many countries have broken International Law numerous times since the break up of the Soviet Union, and shed lots of blood (notably absent during the change of ruling power in Crimea) so I’m not having a go… just stating a fact.

  92. OK, let’s forget common law, for our current purposes.

    For statutory law to be passed it starts as a Bill…

    “A Bill is a proposal for a new law, or a proposal to change an existing law that is presented for debate before Parliament. Bills are introduced in either the House of Commons or House of Lords for examination, discussion and amendment. When both Houses have agreed on the content of a Bill it is then presented to the reigning monarch for approval (known as Royal Assent). Once Royal Assent is given a Bill becomes an Act of Parliament and is law. ”

    I remember following the progress of RIP through its various stages in 2000, and al the controversy it caused along the way. But how does this “due process” of law-making fit with the current Cameron/Clegg shenanigans?

  93. Tucked away in Paragraph 43 of the notes on the emergency surveillance laws being rushed through parliament are the purposes for which communications data can be looked at.
    Along with interests of national security, and in preventing crime, there is this: “For the purpose of assessing or collecting any tax, duty, levy or other imposition, contribution or charge payable to a government department.”

  94. @KJH: Thank you for this.

    How can this proposed legislation already have “cross party support” when it contains a paragraph such as this? Perhaps because they haven’t all read it yet, let alone consulted with their constituents? Isn’t this abuse of democracy?


    11 Jul, 2014 - 11:59 pm

    Statute could be synonymous with shenanigans, Peacewisher. That’s the point of using Admiralty Law to regulate drivers through licensing and fees for registration of the vehicle.

    That’s why they use the word ‘vessel’ for automobile and roads then become ‘waterways’. Our precious legislators (lawyers) established this ingenious systems of controls.

  96. I do realise it might seem an almost impossible task..and I may well be useless at could I know..I (just me – I am not part of any conspiracy) sure I have friends in the real world..You Know where you go out and meet people..and My Wife has Done That tonight…with our Son and Daughter) I know I write drunken bollocks…but I never fell out of love with her..and she didn’t with me….I have only spoken too her twice on the phone since we parted…for reasons that we had no control over…we never betrayed each other…and after all this time…she has confided in me…well a bit..we both have our own Families…Both Boy and Girl (Hers are a few Years Older Than Ours)

    So My Wife Saw Me Writing To My Ex..She Already Knew…I had spoken to her on the phone in 1999 and in May 2014….But Those Two Phone Converastions Were The Only Ones..since My Ex..phoned me Up in Manchester and My New Girlfriend answered The Phone…

    She Looks at Me Today….

    Well Of Course…

    She Could Hardly say Anything Else…

    So Do You Want To Go and See Her…

    There is a Train That Will Take You There…

    I Looked at My Wife….

    Its Not My Fault.

    What am I supposed to Do???

    So I asked My Lancashire Girlfriend…well I told her..she said you must be fuckin completely insane to talk to your ex….when….Your wife is so nice..She was really worried about me..cos she knows we other each other so…and then their is our Spanish Girlfriend…who (I really know this – just loves us both so much)

    Please Pray For Her To Get Better

    My Ex-Girlfriend (Nearly My Wife)

    I just Love Her So…

    I just want The Love To Flow….

    I mean wtf are we doing here?..if not to be nice to each other and take The Evil Bastards To Court..a Court of Law…Starting with on our side…Scottish Actually…


    He Kids are Older Than Mine..and Both are Top Lawyers

    Don’t You Want To Take any Responsibilty

    To Take on This EVIL Yourself..

    And Confront It???

    You would be Surprised…


  97. @Ben: the laws on use of roads seem fair, whether or not its origin is in Maritime Law. Obviously plenty of debate etc. with MPs and constituents to make sure they got it right… 1931, I think.

    It seems to me that in recent times laws are brought in without such public consultation. Use of the word “Emergency” is presumably used to get it through with minimum “fuss”. Wonder what the normal trigger point would be for Emergency legislation.

  98. Personally, I think it is an extremely good idea to tell the truth…and if you don’t and you for example..well say the well You Know Like innocent Sweethearts,,,and you know…and after a year really do not expect this…so you ..well what is the alternative…of course you are still in love with her..cos she never betrayed you..and you never betrayed her,,==but now you are with another…for another year too..and she gave me all her love..just so sweet,,,I mean what do you do..I thought she was betraying me..but probably wasn’t…There is absolutely No Way You Can Hide The Scratches On Your Back…

    She Pretended Not To Notice..She Just Got Me Suited and Booted and Sent Me On My Way.

    Yorkshire Girls are Something Else..

    We Cried Together at her Council House in Buttershaw, She Liked Hawkwind Too…when John Lennon Died and Princess Diane Got Married…But 9 Months Later..I had Scratches Down My Back…

    I only did it once.

    She did have two kids that weren’t mine

    I am not perfect…The morning after I would turn up at work..and they kust looked at me..just hoping..and I was covered with love bites all over my neck…

    But its Tony..No Way…???

    Not in the same league guys.


  99. ------------·´`·.¸¸.¸¸.··.¸¸Node

    12 Jul, 2014 - 12:51 am

    Question Time’s ‘passionate highlander’ is the William Wallace of the Better Together campaign”

    Two words: sheep dip

  100. I never thought of the 7/7 bombings as being anything but 4 Yorkshire Muslims who had gone off the rails killing ordinary civilians because of Tony Blair’s policies, the way the BBC and other MSM channels and news outlets presented it. Tony Gosling, who sometimes contributes here, has made me rethink.

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