Obama Wants More Dead Rachel Corries to Boost AIPAC Standing

by craig on June 25, 2011 6:06 pm in Uncategorized

I am proud to call Ray McGovern a friend. He is a retired senior member of the CIA, and was so valued as an analyst that he used to give the US President his daily intelligence briefing. Ray and I both had senior government service careers, in the course of which you make personal friendships that last, hopefully as long as you do. So sometimes we both get told things from the inside of government.

As Ray sets out on the US Gaza peace flotilla ship, he has been warned in the starkest of terms that the Obama administration will do nothing to protect their US flagged vessel, or the US citizens on board, against attack by the Israelis.

I also have been cautioned by a source with access to very senior staffers at the National Security Council that not only does the White House plan to do absolutely nothing to protect our boat from Israeli attack or illegal boarding, but that White House officials”would be happy if something happened to us.” They are, I am reliably told, “perfectly willing to have the cold corpses of activists shown on American TV.”

While I know Ray to be an extremely honest man, motivated by a genuine activist christianity, I tought it was possible that his source was exaggerating. I therefore set my own diplomatic sources to work in Washington, without giving them any indication of Ray’s information. They came back with an independent report from a different source – close to Clinton rather than the White House – with exactly the same result of which Ray was warned. I was told that Obama will welcome an Israeli attack on the US ship, as giving him a chance to confirm his pro-Israeli credentials and improve his standing with AIPAC ahead of the Presidential election race. Fatalities would be “not a problem”.

There was no information that the Obama regime has quietly given Netanyahu a green light to attack the ship. But I strongly expect they will; by deniable means, of course.

Tweet this post

67 Comments

  1. That’s depressing to hear, but thank you for giving us the facts on it Craig. If you can get it discussed in the media then maybe it’ll help prevent it happening and put pressure on the Obama admin to support the American members of the convoy instead.

    Would it be ok if i reproduced your post on my own blog making it clear it’s by you and linking to your original post? Or would you prefer just a link to it summarising what it’s about?

  2. Duncan,

    Please use as you wish!

  3. deepgreenpuddock

    25 Jun, 2011 - 6:31 pm

    Reiterating the thought that this is a very depressing post.
    However I was wondering what the fall out from an attack and fatalities might be.
    Electorally speaking, I think it might be a serious backfire for Obama (and Clinton).
    Not sure it would do Netanyahu much good either.
    Someone like Alice walker in a body bag with Israeli bullets is going to be a hot to handle issue.
    I wonder if Ray McGovern is highly ‘expendible'( i.e. conveniently expendible. Is it a slightly personal issue towards him, who is probably seen as a serious betrayer of the cause.

  4. This powerful news needs to be broadcast with urgency widely over the world media – that might confer some protection, conceivably, but only if a very loud noise is made. It is equivalent to a Wikileak – this is the US Administration at least indicating their willingess to allow, at worst, encouraging, the Israeli Govt to attack a US vessel and to kill US citizens.

  5. So, if anyone who reads or posts here has connections with mainstream news outlets/journalists/editors anywhere in the world, including in Israel, you need to get them to look at this news RIGHT NOW. My other suggestion: Spread Craig’s important message virally everywhere – social networking sites, other blogs (Right, Left and Centre) NOW.

  6. Such an attack may help his standing with AIPAC, but his standing with the ‘Arab world’ he is courting since they started overthrowing his place men would be seriously damaged.

  7. Deepgreenpuddock, they can kill anyone with impunity, including, it has been alleged, a US Ambassador. Why would they worry about Alice Walker or an ex-CIA operative? Check out the views of this (other) ex-US Ambassador to India on Israel’s assassination capabilities:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gunther_Dean

    John Gunther Dean, ex-US Ambassador to India (NOT to be confused with the John Dean of Watergate infamy), was accused of being mentally unstable and fired (sound familiar?).

  8. But Mark Krantz, when has ever stopped the US from ingratiating itself on behalf of Israel? The power brokers in the USA don’t give a shit about what the Arab world thinks. If they did, they’d have fixed Palestine/Israel decades ago; it is completely within their power to do so tomorrow, if they wish.

  9. Now, let’s expect a deluge of brand-new, previously-unknown, uber-Zionist posters on this thread…

  10. Thanks Craig.

    Also you could try sending it to the news desks of various newspapers to try to get them ot investigate it further and/or report it (assuming you’ve not done that already, which you likely have)?

  11. I should add that John Gunther Dean, the ex-US Ambassador who accuses Israel of assassinating his colleague, Arnold Raphel in 1988 and of attempting to assassinate Dean himself in the early 1980s when he was US Ambassador to Lebanon, is himself Jewish; he and his family escaped from Nazi Germany in 1938.

    From Wikipedia: “Later he was rehabilitated by the State Department, given a distinguished service medal and the insanity charge was confirmed to be a phony by a former head of the department’s medical service.”

    Sound familiar…?

    Now, if Israel tried to assassinate the US Ambassador to Lebanon and the US Administration did nothing about it, might that not tell us something of the relationship between the two countries?

  12. Mark Krantz, I agree with Suhayls reply, it is just unfortunate that Obama’s electioneering comes well before the lives and rights of US citizens, he has become complacent and his re iterances of ‘1967 borders’ means jack shit.

    Thanks for that Craig, it ‘ll be my last task to advertise this noncholant, intentionally murderous, apparently, AIPAC backscratching. And then I’m off discovering a few interesting bits of Scotland with the missis.

  13. Alice Walker’s piece on why she’s joining the Freedom Flotilla. Courageous woman. Usual prefixes.

    guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/25/alice-walker-gaza-freedom-flotilla

  14. Israel trying to stop the flotilla before it even launches, by hook or by crook:

    http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=399764

    That also describes the passengers as half being women, many very elderly, 30% Jewish, and carrying nothing but letters.

    The organisers make the good point (which is often made but still needs repeating) that the only threat to security comes from Israel’s own behaviour, and that the desire to stop that ill behaviour comes from a desire to help both Israelis and Palestinians find peace. This isn’t about picking one people or the other; it’s about wanting an end to a brutal, racist policy that results in nothing but violence and suffering.

  15. Right, Leo, absolutely, very well put.

    Here’s another fascinating piece on the assassination attemept in Lebanon. This one is written by another ex-US Ambassador, Andrew Killgore. Usual prefixes.

    fpp.co.uk/BoD/Mossad/Dean_Papers_0504.html

    Killgore also is on the board of ‘If Americans Knew’, founded by US journalist, Alison Weir. Usual prefixes.

    ifamericansknew.org/about_us/whoweare.html

    My point in sharing these links is that there is a body of evidence derived from deeply credible interlocutors which is instructive on the nature of US-Israel relations and how those relations actually play out in relation to geopolitical power. The Freedom Flotilla is a direct challenge both to Israel’s ongoing oppression of the Palestinians and to the profoundly distorted and (in terms of the region and more widely as well) instrumentally destructive relationship b/w Israel and the USA. Addressing the latter nexus is key if there is to be any change in relation the former.

  16. Somebody should tell Clare Short; she still has him down as being able to walk on water.

  17. YugoStiglitz

    25 Jun, 2011 - 9:48 pm

    I’m still not convinced that the ship is U.S.-flagged. The irrelevant and silly citing of some sort of registration in a particular U.S. state is quite telling. I’ve done some searches, and it might very well be the case that some non-lawyers and bad lawyers have convinced themselves that this is a U.S.-flagged ship because it will have some Americans on board, and because they sent some money into the state of Delaware.

    I’m amazed that you seem to take Crazy Ray McGovern at his world. You previously referred to 911 conspiracists as “conspiraloons.” I think anyone who dreams of nanothermite being planted in the Towers prior to those planes flying in should not be taken seriously, *especially* when he tells you that the President is now after him.

    That which qualifies as evidence at this blog is a constant source of entertainment!

    Suhayl: “Now, let’s expect a deluge of brand-new, previously-unknown, uber-Zionist posters on this thread…”

    Still waiting, Suhayl.

    • Walk Tall Hang Loose

      25 Jun, 2011 - 11:44 pm

      YugoStiglitz:

      Ray McGovern in not crazy, and he is not a ‘conspiraloon’. He has said that the 9/11 commission left many questions unanswered; that it was a cover-up of government malfeasance or incompetence; and that there should be a better investigation.

    • YugoStiglitz, you wrote, “I’m amazed that you seem to take Crazy Ray McGovern at his world. […] I think anyone who dreams of nanothermite being planted in the Towers prior to those planes flying in should not be taken seriously”.
      .
      However, in the link that Craig gives above, Ray McGovern wrote:
      .
      ‘I continue to be amazed at how many otherwise well-informed Americans express total surprise when I refer them to 9/11 “mastermind” Khalid Sheikh Mohammed’s explanation regarding his motivation for attacking the United States, as cited on page 147 of the 9/11 Commission Report:

      > By his own account, KSM’s animus toward the United States
      > stemmed not from his experience there as a student, but rather
      > from his violent disagreement with U.S. foreign policy
      > favoring Israel.”‘
      .
      It seems, Yugo, either that you are wrong about Ray McGovern’s position on 9/11, or that your statement above misrepresents his opinion. You have stated that one of your motivations for arguing against “inside job” theories is that failure to attribute 9/11 to Muslim extremists “messes up US/Muslim relations”. Yet here is Ray McGovern saying that KSM planned 9/11 because of US support for Israel, and YOU are calling him “crazy”! Why?

  18. A CONFESSION
    When Obama appeared on the political stage to be President of the United States of America, I was struck by his eloquence, the apparent sincerity and clarity of his message. I recall saying something to that effect on “Angry Arab’s” blog and he came back at me with a cynical riposte. Sadly, I must admit that what Professor As’ad AbuKhalil said was spot on. I now admit, I was naive in the extreme.
    My mind had worked something like this. In my days as a child I recalled the euphoria and genuine sense of tragedy surrounding the election of J.F.K. and the world wide sense of grief with the news of his assassination. Jimmy Carter, had been, and still remains, to my mind, a man of courage and principle. He held high office, yet seemed to me genuinely concerned to do that which he honestly thought was right. Again, some may say that I am naive in the extreme. The Pentagon and CIA engineered moves to undermine his presidency and stature – but, I still think of him of one of the finer US President’s during my life time.
    History will absolve him on his approach to the energy crisis during the 1970s. Regan, for his part, will over time be seen to be the vacuous system’s man that he was.

    Obama, during his campaign days, sounded like a political breath of fresh air blowing across America and the world. In a very short time my mind has gone 360 degrees from full support, to dismay and disbelief in this charlatan. He had symbolically meant a lot to a great number of people. In symbolic terms he personified America’s promise of equality and opportunity for all. In practical terms he seemed to be a source of inspiration to those, in the best tradition of M.L.K., who were in pursuit of “the dream”.
    Sadly, I now admit, that the savage nature of Obama’s embrace of power in all it worse manifestations, does not comport with some of the more principled aspects and stances of the Kennedy presidency; nor, does he in any way now convince me in the least that he has any of the moral fibers of a Jimmy Carter within his being.

  19. God’s chosen people must protect themselves from invading boats. There could well be some anti-semites on board. Or even worse, the wicked terrorist Ken O’Keefe. :-) I wouldn’t be surprised if he cops it if he’s sailing. Is he going?

  20. Thanks for that Leo, your reasoning is sharp, does that mean that the IDF will be potentially gunning down supporters of the jewish faith? If 30% of the letter carrying well wishers are of that persuasion, then this is a serious blood feud, announced and planned by some who, just as Liebermann, have no problems with being shady criminal operators and using the military to do their dirty work.

    What does AIPAC know of Obama, could one assume that they have dug up a chapter in his past life he does not want to elaborate on? whats the lever, was it his High school/university lifestyle among peers? what did he do in those days AIPAC knows more about?

  21. Craig, thanks for calling attention to this flotilla. But I think your initial skepticism about this information from your friend Mr McGovern was warranted, confirmation or not. First of all, the idea that Israel would take the risk of PR blowback in the US of killing Americans in so public and illegal a way was unthinkable even before Alice Walker joined — now it’s beyond unthinkable. Say what you will about the Israelis, they are not idiots. Second, unless Obama followed up the murder of Americans with a speech congratulating Israel for doing it, tossing in the occasional reference to Judea and Samaria and a call for Israel to speed up settlements, he is not going to get the AIPAC vote. He has already lost this vote — the AIPAC types (which represent fewer and fewer American Jews) hate him and mistrust him, and nothing will change that, in my view.

  22. ‘Say what you will about the Israelis, they are not idiots.’

    I take it you mean the power behind Israel. Well, literally hundreds of millions around the globe know they were strongly linked to 9/11. That wasn’t part of the master plan. The Gaza flotilla was a PR disaster for them. That was the last thing they wanted. The thing is, their arrogance and greed can blind their judgement. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they shoot thmselves in the foot yet again. Having built up large influence over media, finance and the U.S.A. via questionable methods doesn’t necessarily make you smart; more nasty in my view. I would certainly call them nasty, dangerous, Zionist IDIOTS myself.

  23. Tell them to let our people go
    .
    To all: By now you’ve no doubt heard the news about Hillary’s people defining the about to take off Gaza flotilla as a “provacative act”! Could Obama be getting a bit nervous that he might have to take a stand? He may be nervous but not as much as the Israeli government that is throwing everything in the book at them to prevent them from even leaving the shores. Below is a partial dialogue from the State Dept. press conference where Matt Lee of the AP was a bit persistent in his questioning. I’m sure he’ll pay for it in some way but good on him as Molly used to say.
    .
    Reporters hector State: Is the blockade legal? What right does Israel have to ‘defend itself’ from humanitarian aid?
    by Philip Weiss on June 25, 2011
    .
    Matt Lee of AP is on fire. Be like Matt Lee, you docile bovine seven-stomached beasts of the mainstream media, grow a pair. And it looks like other State Department reporters are emulating him. Here’s the video . And here’s an extended excerpt from the briefing, below. Gaza is just about the first order of business. And listen to Lee’s genius question toward the end about Saudi Arabian women driving and breaking the law. “It seems to me that’s a pretty provocative act,” too, but Hillary Clinton defends them. I have to believe stuff is shaking. Oh brave flotilla, be safe and make it to Gaza!!!!
    .
    QUESTION: This morning, Victoria, you put out a statement – or a statement went out in your name – about the flotilla. This is the third warning in three days from this building or people in this building about this. What is the big concern here? Are you – is there a worry that this is going – that this may upend your efforts to get the peace talks restarted?
    /…..
    https://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/gazafriends/2011-06/msg00005.html

  24. Mary, thanks for that link. This was an incredibly tenacious and (in the US context) courageous line of questioning by the journalist – good on him – and clearly evasive responses from the spokeswoman; at the end, she simply refused, or was unable, to answer his key question: Is the blockade of Gaza not also a provocative act? Of course it is. The blockade is an obstruction to the process of attaining peace in the area. Again, it points-up the hypocrisy of the US Administration. They appear, in the same region, to support moves towards liberation in one situation (though those were just words, since they continue to support the Saudi regime with weapons and much else) and definitely do support ongoing systemic oppression in another; this type of dynamic is replicated across the region in terms of US policy. Of course, a disconnect b/w words and action is emblematic of US policy over decades; think of ‘Latin’ America, or apartheid South Africa. Well, it seems to me that it’s is common knowledge (about which Israel – in the arrogance to which Jaded correctly referred – boasts constantly) that the US supports Israel up to, and beyond, the hilt and that many – most – of those in positions of national/international power in the USA largely seem inordinately and embarrassingly beholden to the interests of another national security-military complex, above and beyond that of their own. This applies, whether or not AIPAC love or despise Obama; in essence, almost no-one in US national public office is allowed to oppose Israel and get away with it. This is the overt message given out by such organisations – they make no secret of it, it is part of their intimidatory propaganda apparatus.

    Laurent, I think that you are correct; attacking the flotilla and/or killing / manhandling Americans, esp. Jewish Americans or Alice Walker would be a huge piece of negative propaganda for Israel, both in general but more importantly within the USA, but I am afraid that I agree with Jaded that I do not think that those in power in Israel will necessarily give a toss. They have learned, over the years, that they have impunity. They know that those who matter to them are on their side – and that unquestioning support has just been confirmed by the information from both the White House and State Dept provided in Craig’s post. In essence, the US Administration will treat the Jewish Americans on the ship as the US authorities treated, say, those who, a long time ago, were leaders and members of the Students for a Democratic Society, the Civil Rights Movement (as Alice Walker argued) or the Weather Underground Movement (note though that like the SDS, those on the flotilla are peaceful protestors; the WUM was not). No quarter was given then to those Americans who challenged imperialism; why would it be any different, now?

    Having said all of this, now that it’s a high-profile international event in the public eye (as opposed to a secret assassination mission), I still think it is relatively unlikely that Israel will now attack and kill people on the Freedom Flotilla; the ship may be intercepted and turned around or people arrested and sent home, but I think we are likely to see Israel acting with (relative) kid gloves. The protestors will be painted as ‘extremists’ in the US domestic media. But, for the reasons outlined earlier, we absolutely cannot assume that will happen.

  25. Whether the message coming out from the Obama White House actually represents the way Obama will react in public should American lives be lost, the message not to go on the flotilla is going out loud and clear.

    Israel grieviously overreacted to the open defiance of the previous flotilla. Despite the overwhelming media and political support for their actions, despite their effective suppression of the evidence against them, they know that people are watching and that talk of “self-defence” and insinuations of “pro-Palestinian activists supplying Hamas” will only get them so far if people are killed.

    So no, I don’t think they would be so stupid as to kill Americans like this in public and the Obama White House will not be so stupid as to publicly endorse them doing it, especially given the efforts Obama has made over the last couple of months to frame himself as Protector-In-Chief of Americans.

  26. Courtenay,
    Obama was ‘groomed’ in Chicago by Lee “Rosy” Rosenberg. Rosenburg a a jazz recording industry veteran capitalist, accompanied Obama on his campaign trip to Israel.

    Close friends of Rosenburg are former White House Chief of Staff and current Mayor of Chicago, Rahm Emanuel, as well as David Axelrod, President Obama’s senior advisor.

    As a committment, ‘passing out’ exam and LOI, Obama wrote legislation to make it easier for states to divest from Iranian holdings. While in Israel Obama was shown the work of Sayeret Rimon or Sayeret Matkal in America least he forgets even briefly the Machiavellian network in place in Illinois, the microcosm of America, which of course includes the assassination unit.

  27. Agree Suhayl. Do you remember that along with most African Americans, Alice Walker fell for the Obama hype and actually spoke at length at his inauguration? Regretting it now I should think.
    .
    There is a good satirical piece on ICH about his Nobel Peace Prize. In the comments, ‘Jay’ has posted a You Tube video of him being filmed with a baby as most of the psychopathic war criminals are wont to do. The ending is tragic.
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article28406.htm

  28. Indeed, Mary. I suspect that part of Alice Walker’s motive in joining the flotilla relates to this sense of betrayal. It’s very courageous of her, in all ways. I remember what happened in the late 1970s to Andrew Young when he met with Palestinian representatives. Carter was compelled to sack him.

    From Wikipedia:

    ‘Young’s controversial statements made headlines almost from the start. In August 1979, he appeared on the television show Meet the Press and said that Israel was “stubborn and intransigent”…Young’s UN ambassadorship ended in August 1979, after Young met secretly, apparently in violation of American policy, with representatives of the Palestine Liberation Organization. Jimmy Carter denied any complicity in what was called the “Andy Young Affair”, and asked Young to resign.’

    Carter was compelled to risk jettisoning the African-American vote; it is important to remember that Young was the first African-American to hold such a senior and publicly-visible position in a US Administration and that before that, along with Jesse Jackson (who in the late 1970s had yet to make his mark at the highest level of US politics), he had been a key and highly visible aide to Martin Luther King Junior. Yet when it came to it, none of that counted for anything. Carter was over a barrel.

    So, from the point-of-view of matters African-American and the relationship of African-Americans with imperial power domestically and internationally and with the global anti-imperialist struggle, there is a long history of such systemic betrayal. In this context, Obama now is the symbol of ultimate betrayal. One suspects that Alice Walker – normally a deeply perceptive and politically-aware writer – knows this and is extremely angry about it.

  29. Mark,

    Thanks for that education.

    ” Who dares wins” – and obviously Obama cares much about “winning” ( as it has been determined for him) at any cost.

  30. TO ALL – INTERESTING AND NEW BRUTAL TIMES DAWNING..READ ON:-

    ” New Face Of War: “the spread of counter – terrorism”
    By Conn Hallinan, http://www.fpif.org/articles/the_new_face_of_war

    The assassination of Osama bin Laden formalized the new kind of warfare, where sovereignty is irrelevant, armies tangential, and decisions are secret…requires a vast intelligence apparatus… now almost a fourth arm of government most Americans are unaware of. According to The Washington Post, this murky world includes 1,271 government agencies and 1,931 private companies in more than 10,000 locations across the country..that blurs the traditional borders between civilian and military forces.. at the core of the “new warfare”…The Spread of Counter-Terrorism… The principle behind counter-terrorism is eliminating people you don’t like… no patina of “hearts and minds,” … no effort to practice the subterfuge of “plausible deniability” that deflected the ire of target countries in the past…. “Petraeus’s appointment to head CIA is an important indication of U.S. fusing intelligence and military operations.”…”

  31. “Meanwhile, the organizers of the Gaza flotilla said that the Greek authorities have barred the American ship the “Audacity of Hope” from taking part in the sail.”
    http://uruknet.info/?p=m78933&hd=&size=1&l=e

  32. YugoStiglitz

    26 Jun, 2011 - 6:48 pm

    “Now, let’s expect a deluge of brand-new, previously-unknown, uber-Zionist posters on this thread…”

    Still waiting, Suhayl.

    • Yes, Yugo, and I’m still waiting for your answers to my question above. And to my questions on previous threads.
      .
      The “uber-Zionists” will show up when the ship approaches Gaza, I reckon. That’s what happened last time. Patience, Larry, patience.

  33. As the new Free Gaza flotilla prepares to sail to Gaza, a suspicious video has emerged by an unknown “gay rights activist” claiming that he was rejected by the flotilla activists because of his sexuality. The anonymous activist, who had no previous online history, produced no evidence to support his claim. Within minutes, Benjamin Doherty — the man who helped expose our friend Tom MacMaster — was able to cast serious doubt on the video’s authenticity. It appeared pretty clear that the video was a pinkwashing hoax.

    Since then, Doherty and I have gathered evidence suggesting that the video has links to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s office, or is at least being promoted through an official government hasbara operation.

    http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m78979&fb=1

  34. Courtenay – the also murky world of British intelligence:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jun/26/intelligence-chief-iraqi-wmds

    • Very important Mark. You might also note that Chertoff, the pro-Zionist ghoulish looking US Head of Homeland Security who chaired the 9/11 ‘inquiry’ has Scarlett on board. The Chertoff base is at Culham a previous UKAWE base and where research is now going on into nuclear fusion. Chertoff is one of the c. 50 sigs of the PNAC, an important fact which is kept from the eyes of the sleeping public, mnost of whom have never heard of it. John Reid is another one who has been taken on by the Chertoff Group.
      .
      http://chertoffgroup.com/cgroup/category/aboutus/advisoryboard/
      .
      Incidentally another company now based at Culham is LDC the private forensic services company who employ Dr Hunt, the pathologist in the Dr Kelly case, via a company called Forensic Alliance which they own. {http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/08/17/forensic-scientist-who-investigated-death-of-dr-david-kelly-was-a-rookie-on-first-big-case-115875-22492498/}
      .
      All such nice neighbours! {http://www.culham.org.uk/businesses/}

  35. Mark, great, incisive posts, keep ‘em coming, man. Just shows how these things work – re. the fake video from Netanyahu. And of course, on Scarlett et al and Iraq, all those people – Straw, Blair, Scarlett, Campbell, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Wolfowitz and the rest of the murderous gang – lied to their electorates, lied to Congress and Parliament and lied to the world. They ought to be tried for starting a war of aggression on false pretences, for mass murder and for much else besides. Why aren’t they in jail? They’re like Charles Manson and the Family, but with an army, navy and airforce.

  36. YugoStiglitz

    27 Jun, 2011 - 1:08 am

    Suhayl, what does Andrew Young in the 1970s have to do with Alice Walker today?

    Also, the Andrew Young firing simply stands for the fact that an American official should not violate policy. If he had met with Polish or East Timorese dissidents, the result would have been the same.

    But of course this is another example of people finding nefarious Jew-plotting wherever they can.

  37. YugoStiglitz

    27 Jun, 2011 - 1:11 am

    Clark, in response to your question, yes, McGovern has engaged in some soft trutherism, as you pointed out. But that doesn’t rule out his engaging in hard trutherism, as he clearly does when he states that the Bush administration orchestrated the 911 attacks. He also shares the stage with just the worst 911 fruitcakes.

    • YugoStiglitz,
      .
      1) What “soft trutherism” have I pointed out?
      .
      2) The 9/11 commission report is KNOWN to be incomplete at best (eg. the retracted pages concerning Saudi Arabia). Do you regard acknowledging this as “soft trutherism”?
      .
      3) You falsely implied that McGovern supports “controlled demolition” theories, so I’m not accepting your revised assertion that he supports Bush administration complicity.
      .
      3) You yourself “share the stage” with all sorts of people on this blog that you regard as “fruitcakes”. So what?
      .
      I’m glad you’re not my lawyer. You seem neither accurate, logical, honest nor consistent.

  38. YugoStiglitz

    27 Jun, 2011 - 1:02 pm

    Clark, I think you have a problem understanding this issue. McGovern has said different things regarding 911; his position has changed over time.

    http://patriotsquestion911.com/Article%20CIA%20Veterans%20Challenge%20911.pdf

  39. YugoStiglitz

    27 Jun, 2011 - 1:06 pm

    The 911 Commission Report is a solid explanation of what led up to 911. No, it doesn’t go into space beam theories, but conspiraloons should not be driving the agenda.

    • Yugo, thanks for the link to the CIA Veterans Challenge PDF. Is that really the best evidence supporting your position that you can find? It was written by Alan Miller of PatriotsQuestions.org, not by Ray McGovern, so you may as well have simply quoted the following, as it is the only statement by Ray McGovern that it contains:
      .
      “It has long been clear that the Bush-Cheney administration cynically exploited the attacks of 9/11 to promote its imperial designs. But the present volume [9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out] confronts us with evidence for an even more disturbing conclusion: that the 9/11 attacks were themselves orchestrated by this administration precisely so they could be thus exploited. IF THIS IS TRUE, it is not merely the case, as the Downing Street memos show, that the stated reason for attacking Iraq was a lie. It is also the case that the whole “war on terror” was based on a prior deception. This book hence confronts the American people – indeed the people of the world as a whole – with an issue second to none in importance and urgency. I give this book, which in no way can be dismissed as the ravings of ‘paranoid conspiracy theorists,’ my highest possible recommendation.” [My note and emphasis]
      .
      So McGovern was expressing his opinion that a book contained important evidence, which may or may not be true; that seems reasonable to me. Precisely nothing about “space beams”.
      .
      Yugo,
      .
      (1) your position does not seem rational. But maybe something else matters more to you than appearing rational.
      .
      (2) Does it not worry you that you are acting like the Thought Police?

  40. “Suhayl, what does Andrew Young in the 1970s have to do with Alice Walker today?” YugoStiglitz

    Everything.

  41. YugoStiglitz

    27 Jun, 2011 - 8:25 pm

    Why? Because they’re both black? What on Earth are you saying?

  42. I wonder if Obama & Co. can be charged with murder if any U.S. activists are killed?

  43. @YugoStiglitz

    “I’m still not convinced that the ship is U.S.-flagged.”

    If its not U.S. flagged then it must be O.K. to kill these people. It certainly seems implausible and difficult that a ship could be U.S. flagged.

    “I’m amazed that you seem to take Crazy Ray McGovern at his world.”

    Actually, Mr. Murray did not take him at his word; he asked some contacts to verify the claim.

    “Crazy” Ray McGovern has a pretty good track record as far as his claims are concerned. Can the neocon supporters of U.S. aggression make the same claim?

  44. From David Edwards and David Cromwell, the Media Lens editors.

    Haaretz: ‘Gaza flotilla organizer: We have no intention of attacking IDF soldiers’
    .
    Interesting choice of headline by Haaretz, planting the possibility of activist violence in the reader’s mind.
    .
    Worse is this:
    .
    ‘…IHH [Turkish human rights group] was chiefly responsible for the violence aboard last year’s flotilla…’
    .
    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/gaza-flotilla-organizer-we-have-no-intention-of-attacking-idf-soldiers-1.370027

  45. “Interesting choice of headline by Haaretz, planting the possibility of activist violence in the reader’s mind.”
    .
    My understanding is that the flotilla were responding to charges that they meant to confront IDF soldiers and saying they have no intention of doing that.
    .
    Besides, Ha’aretz has one of its reporters aboard the flotilla – Amira Hass – who clearly isn’t going to spin the Israeli government’s line.
    .
    The same newspaper also “plants the possibility” of Netanyahu commissioning videos by fake gay-activists who were supposedly refused permission to join the flotilla because they’re gay.

  46. Yes indeed, Amira Hass is an insightful, solid and courageous journalist. Haaretz reportage generally tends to allow for far more critical views of Israel’s actions than is the case in equivalent outlets in, for example, the USA. I know what you mean, though, Mary. Remember that in all newspapers, headlines are chosen by editors and (usually, for non-front page pieces) sub-editors, who tend to err on the side of power; read Robert Fisk’s excellent book on his life in journalism – not by the journalist – and often do not reflect the content of the piece. Sometimes, headlines are actually diametrically opposed to the content of the article.

  47. Craig, thanks for bothering. Sometimes I wish certain retired people would pull together and make us a new nation somewhere, anywhere… just help us start over from scratch.

    Everyone Else, I’ll put in a good word for the “space beams”. I know a lot of research is involved to find out something that seems so preposterous on its face is the most cogent explanation, and it’s SO much easier not to go there, but… Occam’s Razor just does not apply to what happened on 9/11.

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. The Audacity of Hope [Amazing Video] | Hot to Spot
  2. The Audacity of Hope [Amazing Video] | Hot to Spot
  3. The Audacity of Hope: Greek Coast Guard and Commandos Stopping US Boat to Gaza :
  4. The Progressive Mind » Craig Murray » Blog Archive » Obama Wants More Dead Rachel Corries to Boost AIPAC Standing
  5. Greek Coast Guard and Commandos Stopping US Boat to Gaza | Intifada Palestine
  6. Greek Coast Guard and Commandos Stopping US Boat to Gaza
  7. Greek Coast Guard & Commandos Stopping US Boat to Gaza – video | Occupied Palestine | فلسطين
  8. The US ‘Audacity of Hope’ Dashed ? | My Catbird Seat
  9. Greek Coast Guard and Commandos Stopping US Boat to Gaza | THE PROPHECY BLOG
  10. Obama Wants More Dead Rachel Corries to Boost Standing with AIPAC | COTO Report
  11. Greek Coast Guard and Commandos Stopping US Boat to Gaza | ANOINTED BLOG
  12. THE BIBLE BLOG | Blog | Greek Coast Guard and Commandos Stopping US Boat to Gaza
  13. The Audacity of Hope [UPDATING] | SHOAH

Powered By Wordpress | Designed By Ridgey | Produced by Tim Ireland | Hosted by Expathos