Disappearing Aircraft

by craig on March 19, 2014 8:07 am in Uncategorized

I had fairly well concluded that the most likely cause was a fire disrupting the electrical and control systems, when CNN now say the sharp left turn was pre-programmed 12 minutes before sign off from Malaysian Air Traffic control, which was followed fairly quickly by that left turn.

CNN claim to have this from an US official, from data sent back before the reporting systems went off.  It is hard to know what to make of it: obviously there are large economic interests that much prefer blame to lie with the pilots rather than the aircraft.  But if it is true then the move was not a response to an emergency.  (CNN went on to say the pilot could have programmed in the course change as a contingency in case of an emergency.  That made no sense to me at all – does it to anyone else?)

I still find it extremely unlikely that the plane landed or crashed on land  I cannot believe it could evade military detection as it flew over a highly militarized region.  Somewhere there is debris on the ocean.  There have been previous pilot suicides that took the plane with them; but the long detour first seems very strange and I do not believe is precedented.  However if the CNN information on pre-programming is correct, and given it was the co-pilot who signed off to air traffic control, it is hard to look beyond the pilots as those responsible for whatever did happen.  In fact, on consideration, the most improbable thing is that information CNN are reporting from the US official.

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  1. Copied from AH thread:

    Marlin, there’s more on that here,it’s a good summary;

    :From Diego Garcia to Where?

    If suppose we are to assume that the plane was indeed diverted to Diego Garcia, it is reasonable to assume that the plane and its passengers would not be kept there indefinitely. If we are to follow the logic of some devoted conspiracy theorists who are pursuing this on other forums, the plane and its passengers would be flown to the Eastern mainland of the United States, over the Atlantic Ocean to escape scrutiny (and comparatively less distance than the other way around). Of course, the plane’s livery would be painted over. The plane’s wreckage would later be carefully deposited by (presumably by air) on a location far away from Diego Garcia.

    But why are we discussing this here?

    ‘Because the same devoted conspiracy theorists who are pursuing this on other forums have pointed out that four days after the disappearance of MH370, a curious military exercise took place on the Southern-Eastern part of the United States coastline. Fighter jets were reportedly “escorting” a plane. To quote,

    “Members of the South Carolina Air National Guard are conducting an air defense exercise along the coast. Guard Senior Master Sergeant Edward Snyder says people might see fighter jets escorting a civilian aircraft Thursday over the North Charleston and Myrtle Beach areas.


    However ,my posting
    Mar, 2014 – 11:08 am

    With the link for the first Maldive sighting , now being taken seriously by the media, is strengthened & possibly confirms where this MH370 went for refuelling & re-flagging,before travelling further.

  2. Hi Craig. I have the great honor of making the first comment in a new discussion?

    You asked: “(CNN went on to say the pilot could have programmed in the course change as a contingency in case of an emergency. That made no sense to me at all – does it to anyone else?)”

    Apparently some very conscientious pilots do indeed pre-load a path to the nearest suitable airport in case of emergency, and change it as the flight progresses. It allows them to quickly select the new path with one command if needed.

  3. @Katie
    Drat! You beat me to it. One great mystery is how “they” know that somebody entered an alternate course, and whether it was before or after the last communication (whenever that was). It’s all based on an unnamed source, initially I think to the New York Times. Whether it’s a from ACARS via Rolls Royce or Boeing or some other source is unclear.

    There may be good legal and business reasons why it isn’t officially announced.

  4. If the plane did land somewhere my guess would be Mongolia or in an area where there is no phone signal, because otherwise there would have been passenger attempts to inform loved ones that they were safe. Suicide still seems most likely short of this.

  5. “…and given it was the co-pilot who signed off to air traffic control”

    How is this significant? With most airlines it’s normal that whoever is the handling pilot for the sector talks on the radio. Ultimately it’s the captain’s decision who is the handling pilot but unless there are special considerations (marginal weather or the like – at British Airways, for example, it’s always the captain who’s handling pilot for autolands) captains and first officers (F/Os) will alternate by sector (ie, flight). A captain who didn’t give F/Os their reasonable share of sectors would be pretty unpopular and would be pulled up by the airline as it wouldn’t be allowing the F/Os to get necessary experience.

    By the way, the term “co-pilot” is hardly used these days. I think it has some specific technical meaning, something like that an F/O is considered a “co-pilot” for sectors where they’re not the handling pilot. There’s some rule or other about them only being able to count a certain number of co-pilot hours towards certain licence upgrades (commercial with frozen ATPL to ATPL). Can’t remember the details, read the rules years ago while sitting bored in CAA Flight Crew Licensing at Gatwick while waiting for them to sort out a problem with a rating on my private licence. But normally (ie., except when training or whatever) the person in the left seat is the captain and the one in the right seat is the first officer.

    The difference between the two is a lot less than many people think. The captain will typically have had more experience and will have overall responsibility for the flight but when it comes to actual handling of the aircraft both can and will do almost all of the jobs.

    If the captain was using the radio for earlier calls and suddenly the FO was talking then that might be slightly significant but likely only indicates that the captain was busy at that moment – maybe he’d gone to the toilet or something. Of course, one of the crew being off the flight deck might be part of the story here but the F/O replying is not in itself sinister in any way.

  6. Breaking news! The only news! From the morning Malaysian press conference. Files Deleted! The pilot had deleted files from his home flight simulator computer.

    Shocking, whoever heard of such a thing. Deleted files on a PC.

  7. @Marlin

    Hi there on here.

    In answer to your question. I wasn’t aware that he reached FL450.
    If he did, then that “could” have happened for any number of reasons that could be deliberate or accidental (depending on system failures and awareness of the situation).

    ONE thing to remember (and I guess it is the same for Chevaline), the authorities WILL NOT reveal all the data they have.

    With regard to ACARS, it depends on what ACARS package MAS has.
    Personally I don’t see that they have a “30 minute” burst transmissions. This is the national carrier of Malaysia. Not a “tin pot” airline (although they are behaving in that way).

    Also ACARS data won’t be made public. Firstly they are not allowed to do that until after an investigation (and as yet, as far as I am aware, that hasn’t even started. This is still a “search and rescue” mission. The plane is still listed as “missing”).

    With regards what could have happened.

  8. @Ed Davies

    The “basically” the terms used would be….
    PIC and SIC. Pilot In Command and Second In Command.
    Then they’ll have designated PF and PNF. Pilot Flying and Pilot Not Flying for that sector.

    Here it looks like it was PIC/PF and SIC/PNF due to the fact that the “Co Pilot” was handling the radio communications (and didn’t appear to be stressed).

    However….if “that” was his “sign off” to Malaysian ATC, then it was a rather relaxed one (unless there was a communication from the controller just before which was repeated back by the SIC/PNF).

  9. The journalist and author with in-depht knowledge of what went on 9/11, and who has researchet 9/11 like no other, and lost his job as a result of this, Christopher Bollyn, weighs in:

    [my emphasis] [links added]

    Are the Israelis Planning Another 9-11 Using the Missing Boeing 777?

    By Christopher Bollyn_________March 18, 2014


    An Israel-based reporter named Paul Alster has a very interesting article on FoxNews.com giving an Israeli prognosis about the missing Malaysian Boeing 777. The Alster article is important because it suggests that the Israelis may be setting the stage for a false-flag event using the missing Malaysian plane as a flying bomb in an attack similar to 9-11.

    The article, which follows this introduction, is very revealing because it contains information that indicates that the Israelis may be projecting a terror scenario by planting the ideation in the public mind by using the media. Ideation in this case is the projection of the scenario planned by the terror masterminds who put the idea into people’s heads so that they will blame the targeted foe when their plot unfolds into reality. The following article has comments from Israeli El Al airport “security” veterans that are very similar to comments tweeted by Rupert Murdoch in the past day or two. How interesting that Murdoch and the Israeli airline security people imagine the exact same fate for the missing Boeing. How telling.

    It is important to note that these Israeli El Al security people are the same people (ICTS, Menachem Atzmon, and assorted Mossadniks), who carried out the ideation (Murdoch’s “Lone Gunmen” pilot episode and Arnon Milchan’s Medusa Touch film come to mind) and false-flag attacks of 9-11. This is what the evidence I present in my Solving 9-11 books reveals about Israeli involvement in false-flag terrorism of 9-11. The fact that the same people are now projecting the ideation of the Boeing 777 being used in a terror attack needs to be taken very seriously.

    The game is on. Beware of the very real possibility that the plane may resurface, used as a weapon of terror to cause a provocation that can be used to initiate aggression against a targeted foe – such as the Islamic Republic of Iran. If enough people realize the evil game of deception the Israelis are up to, they won’t be able to pull off another major terror spectacle – and get away with it.


    Bollyn thinks that Israel is directly implicated in 9/11. While this is fascinating – and certainly welcome as a contrast to how the mainstream media portarys the situation (and many of his carefully researched information relating to Israelis in the aircraft business in the US and the like is certainly interesting in itself)- I’ve never been prepared to go that far.

    I think Israel’s intelligence services knew what was going to happen, and one can discuss if it’s not a criminality that they did not inform the US authorities. From Israel’s perspective it was enormously important to get the US directly involved in fighting its enemies, and it has since 9/11 gained ‘a new lease of life’, thriving and spinning money and businesses in providing info about all sorts of radical islamists to all the worlds intelligence services, and selling surveillance equipment all over the world.

    A country which always has considered itself to be in a permanent state of war is undoubtedly prepared to go to great lenghts, also lenghts that people like us living in peace are not prepared to even consider. But I still hesitate to go along with the notion that they would actually kill 3,000 people on 9/11 to achieve their aim of getting practically the whole world to join its fight, and in this way get a new lease of life.

    But lets get a fair trial, as used to happen whenever large amounts of people gets killed in a criminality. But we’ve never had that,- and that very suspicious. Bollyn documents how Jewish lawyers, law enforcement officials and judges time and again have shelved any investigation into those who might have known about what was going to happen. It would be fair to procecute these people, because no matter if Israel had an existential interest in 9/11, it’s not fair to kill close to 3,000 innocents in the process, – not to mention the hundred of thousands of innocents who have died in the wake of 9/11 in wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and even Palestine and Lebanon, where Israel used the guise of the global “war on terror” — and its new found self confidence .. to clamp down on Palestinians and Lebanese.

    So all in all he’s a lot more sensible than many other commenters, including the right honoured Mr. Craig Murray, because Bollyn is very clear about how it was undue Western interference in Ukraine’s internal affairs, that prompted Putin to take matters into his own hands and show how vital national interests always will trumph fears of santions, -which means its stupid to use sanctions, if they don’t work. It’s not only stupid, it’s detrimental to our own interests, and it could well be dangerous because it is whipping up hatred and contempt. Much more wise it would be to invite Russia into NATO, which they want, and into economic coorperation with the EU – which latter organisation should NEVER have evolved anyfurther than to a British inspired Free Trade Club. If EU still had been primarily a free trade organistaion like the EEC, Russia could easily have joined, and everybody would be happy.

  10. “All okay. Good night” isn’t really a “communication” as such !

    Could someone confirm what the “official” communication was, the one released by the Malaysian authorities ?

  11. “There may be good legal and business reasons why it isn’t officially announced”.

    It is all governed under the Montreal Convention (Article 21 parargraph 1 and 2). This convention gives the air carrier “limited liability” in return for “presumed fault”.

    There are other “conditions” which revolve around the “reckless” behaviour of a carrier (and a bit of a legal mine field), however “if” proved then (I believe) there is no privilege granted of limited liability. The liability could become “unlimited”.

  12. Marcus,
    I can’t agree with that ,a lot are posting that theory of fire on Twitter,but surely a fire would have allowed enough time for at least one phone call to get through ?

    Yes that is the official announcement , it has also been said that is the wrong flying ‘change over code /message’ so it should have rung alarm bells.

    Yes, we are told, he did climb to 45,000 & then dropped to 20,000, eventually down to 5,000ft.

  13. Now we get another thread about the sabotaged airliner just when the previous one was getting interesting with the announcement that Allianz, the German insurance company, was paying out today $100 million to Malaysia for the loss of its plane and its 239 victims.

    The company could only have done so if some important player guaranteed the payments, and it seems to have been Beijing which is having all kinds of problems with the relatives of the victims.

    China would only have done so if it knows that the plane was destroyed, and will not be found.

    This is supported by its Ministry of State Security announcing in a most unprecedented manner that none of its victims could have been involved in any terrorism. Of course, there is a first time for almost anything.

    Looks like it knows who did the sabotage, and the first place to look would be by checking the passenger manifests for both this flight and the Asiana Flight 214 to see if any passenger or passengers were on them both – what I shall now be doing.

    Will attempt no more now for fear that this post like several others will be prevented from appearing.

  14. Ba'al Zevul (Хождение в народ!)

    19 Mar, 2014 - 11:27 am

    Very sensible theory here. Not discounted by preprogrammed diversion, as far as I can see – perhaps supported by it;


    See we have pilots here. True for you?

  15. Ba’al Zevul (Хождение В Народ!)
    19 Mar, 2014 – 11:27 am

    That theory has a logical problem.
    If there is an emergency because of fire why wouldnt he land in Butterworth or Penang intl.?
    Butterworth doesnt have any obstacles and it is an airforce port open 24×365. He was flying directly above butterworth. Why would he want to fly another 200 miles if there was an airport directly below his flight route?

    Second logical problem: the plane was too heavy for landing. First thing a pilot does before landing is opening the fuel tanks. If he didnt do that then he wouldnt have wanted to land.
    However, if he did it, the plane wouldnt have had fuel for another 6 hours.

    Solution: there hadnt been any kind of intention to land.

    Theory debunked.

  16. This is the FIRST time in history of flight insurance that an insurance company (german Allianz) is paying for dead PAX before they were officially declared as being dead.

    Other than that there is the only other possibility that the government did already declare them as being dead but the gov didnt tell that to the media deliberately.
    That would suggest that they know much more than they are telling us.

  17. BB.
    I agree with you about there not being a fire…because of the lack of phone calls, but not about landing.
    IF, the plane flew to DG it would have done almost 3 hours flying so could have landed & refilled to fly on.
    Plus, had the flying height been, as suggested, 5,000 more fuel would have been burnt up.

    See my link posted earlier;


  18. Ideation

    A wish for a different explanation from the obvious.

    The obvious explanation of the events in the Ukraine is that Zionists including the loop of Saudi Arabia, have swapped control Russian involvement in the Mediterranean at Syria, for Russian annexation of the Crimea so that they can remove Assad and get their sticky fingers on Syria.

    The obvious explanation for the Malaysian plane going missing is Obama’s interest in the Pacific. What do the zio-banksters of the Pacific want him to do? Obviously not bankrupt or upset China. The rise of China and the Far East is a creation of the Zio-banksters by which to dis-empower us Europeans, those US jobless citizens, and those very wealthy oil-sheikh pawns, who threaten their mad ideology to re-create the cult of Judea.

    I agree with Kenneth Sorensen that the disappearance of the plane tempts us to imagine a repetition of 9/11 to create a new war on Terror zone in Obama’s new, Pacific area of operations. However, because I always believe the opposite of what liars try to get me to believe, I think that USUKIS want us to take our eyes off the ball, which is the disabling of Muslim countries in the Middle-East and the re-colonisation by ISUSUK of Africa.

  19. Bluebird – if there was a fire he may not have been to jettison fuel?

    But knowing this area,a little, I agree Butterworth is much nearer. But is it an international airport or a military base? Anyway Penang is so close by it must have been an option. They would have much better facilities for dealing with an emergency than Langkawi.

    The wired article is plausible but could there really have been a failure of all communication systems:

    “There was most likely a fire or electrical fire. In the case of fire the first response if to pull all the main busses and restore circuits one by one until you have isolated the bad one.

    If they pulled the busses the plane indeed would go silent. It was probably a serious event and they simply were occupied with controlling the plane and trying to fight the fire”

    Why would anyone do this? couldn’t he have fired off at least one SOS before closing down electrical systems?

  20. Looks like finding the passenger manifest for Asiana Flight 214 will be rather difficult since it apparently doesn’t exist.

    When I google for it, I only get images of the result – pictures of the plane which experienced those two fires while landing, photos of all kinds of relatives and survivors, even The NTSB claiming the the pilots were called ‘Sum Ting Wong’, ‘Wi To Low’, and “Ho Lee Fuk’, No image of any actual manifest.

    Might well explain why the FAA fined it $500,000 recently for not being informative and supportive enough of those who were alarmed by the fiasco – what Malaysia, thanks to Beijing’s assistance, is doing its best to avoid now.

  21. Playing the devils advocate, I would like to say that there could be a problem with Bluebirds statement:

    He was flying directly above butterworth. Why would he want to fly another 200 miles if there was an airport directly below his flight route?

    – because a pilot who has lost engine-thrust is concerned with taking a smooth effortless glide down towards something that is right before him, and not necessarily in making anymore sharp U-turns or down-spiralling.

  22. Also, if he had lost communication he couldn’t…..communicate with Butterworth, which is a military base, which would very much appreciate any incoming traffic to identify itself beforehand. He might very well have felt more comfortably by an airfield that was ahead of him, and to which he could make a quiet descent. But it’s very surprising that no debris has been found along this path.

  23. Sorensen

    The U-turn happend more than 30 minutes earlier than he arrived in butterworth/penang.

    More than enough time to glide smoothly either towards butterworth airforce base or to penang international and also at the same time to reduce weight by opening the fuel tanks.

    He did never intend to land there at that time.
    He/ or the person controlling that flight, must have had a totally different intention …. if they werent shot down by their own airforce earlier on.

  24. Ba'al Zevul (Хождение в народ!)

    19 Mar, 2014 - 12:32 pm

    Thanks for the expert input. From the wired piece;

    “The captain did not turn back to Kuala Lampur because he knew he had 8,000-foot ridges to cross. He knew the terrain was friendlier toward Langkawi, which also was closer.”

    If he had preprogrammed an escape route, might he not have picked Langkawi for those reasons? Why not Butterworth? Because it’s a MATZ, maybe? I see 18/36 at Butterworth is only 8000′ long, while Langkawi is 13000′ – would give him more error room, I’d have thought, as a 777 needs over 2Km (~6600 feet).

    Re. the fuel tanks: point taken, but if he’d made the decision to go to Lankawi, he wouldn’t have jettisoned immediately…before he did, unconsciousness /death had supervened.

    However, chances are we’ll never know.

  25. Can any say what powers the planes headlights ?
    Because if the multiple sightings over the Maldives are true, all lights were said to be blazing on the aircraft,which is what first got their attention .

    I’d say that showed the aircraft was preparing to land.

  26. Trowbridge

    ‘…even The NTSB claiming the the pilots were called ‘Sum Ting Wong’, ‘Wi To Low’, and “Ho Lee Fuk’

    Trowbridge, are you sure about that? These names were a hoax played upon Bay Area Fox Affiliate KTVU, whose newsreader read them out on air. You can see the footage here:


    I hate to say it, but it is very funny, albeit in extremely poor taste.

  27. Langkawi has 8000 ft runway according to that site. There are confusing statistics.
    However, Langkawi is open from 9am to 4pm ONLY and the runway pkus the airport is closed at night.
    I suggest to check if there are any runway lights at all on langkawi runway. I seriously doubt so. However, the airport is closed at night and there is nobody to turn on the lights if there are any.

    Penang runway is 11.000 ft. and Penang airport is open 24 hours.

    There is no reason whatsoever to ignore butterworth or penang in case of an emergency in the middle of the night.

  28. The Allianz insurance payout must be the quickest insurance payout in history !

    03/19/2014 11:30
    Allianz Insurer Starts Pay-Outs On Missing Malaysian Airliner Claims
    Deutsche Welle
    Allianz Insurer Starts Pay-Outs On Missing Malaysian Airliner Claims
    German insurance company Allianz has started making payments on claims related to missing Malaysian Airline flight MH370. The company says it is seeking to complete claims payments by the end of the week. Allianz and other co-reinsurers of the Malaysian Airlines aviation hull and liability policy had.

    German insurance company Allianz has started making payments on claims related to missing Malaysian Airline flight MH370. The company says it is seeking to complete claims payments by the end of the week.

    Allianz and other co-reinsurers of the Malaysian Airlines aviation hull and liability policy had made initial payments linked to the disappearance of Malaysian Airlines flight MH370, the German insurance company announced late on Tuesday.

    The company, which is Malaysia Airlines’ lead insurer, were confirming an earlier report in the German business daily Handelsblatt. In its Wednesday edition, Handelsblatt reported that payments in the case would amount to about $100 million (72 million euros) for the aircraft and the 239 people on board.

    Allianz declined to comment on the exact sum of claims and how much of it would be passed on to other insurers in the consortium.

    “This is in agreement with the insurance broker, Willis, and is in line with normal market practice and our contractual obligations where an aircraft is reported missing,” Allianz said in a statement.”

    So, there’s no time limit on a missing aircraft, all it needs is that word, ‘missing’ ???

    Pull the other one Allianz, whom I might add , are my own insurers !

  29. Could somebody please measure the length of penang, langkawi and butterworth runways on google earth simply because there are confusing and wrong lengths of langkawi runway given on different websites. My source says 8000 ft.

    Also measuring the length of the Diego Garcia runway on google earth would be appreciated.

    Also the distance between butterworth airfield and langkawi runway would be good to know.
    I remember that sorensen was good at that.

  30. Ba'al Zevul (Хождение в народ!)

    19 Mar, 2014 - 1:14 pm

    03/21 at Langkawi is 12,500ft long


    But I grant you the runway lights. It has them (see link – others may be out-of-date) but whether they were on or not probably depends on whether there was scheduled traffic. More research needed.

  31. Ba'al Zevul (Хождение в народ!)

    19 Mar, 2014 - 1:15 pm

    Could somebody please measure the length of penang, langkawi and butterworth runways on google earth

    I favour the DIY approach. Lazy sod.

  32. Katie They didn’t, or wouldn’t, pay out for my recent storm damage claim. Wear and tear – the old saw. I am surprised Act of God did not come into it.

  33. I immediately rush to Bluebird‘s defense, who has made invaluabable contributions to the solving of the al Hilli murder case, which many journalists over the months have benefitted from by the method of lurking. Bluebird could be more than three score years old, and as razor sharp he is about….well, almost anything, he typically is completely ignorant about technically trivialities, like YouTube, which he learned about for the first time around 3 months ago.

  34. Ed Davies

    Sorry for the ambiguity – I didn’t mean there was any significance in it being the co-pilot rather than the pilot, I only meant the crew were still apparently in control of the plane

  35. Kenneth Sorensen calling Bluebird. Come in Bluebird two-three-five-zero. Everything looking good. Approaching Keanang. Coming in two-thre-five six. Roger [Moore] and over.

  36. Sorensen
    I know how to measure on google earth but i am only on my smart phone right now and this is impossible to do there. :)
    I hope that the excuse will be accepted.

    Something else:

    The broker for the insurance for airplane MH370 and passengers was

    The Sears Tower in chicago is called Willis Tower nowadays.

    Allianz will pay $ 100 million for plane and passenger families if there was an accident, however, in case of terror or hijacking it is Lloyds who’ll have to pay.
    Insurance responsibility for the cargo is still unknown at this time.

  37. Mary….don’t start me on insurance companies, in my experience they put every obstacle in the way before parting with a penny .
    We are all made to feel dishonest when trying to claim… I cannot believe payouts have already been made, meaning, within DAYS money was received.

  38. No media was telling that ever before:
    Malaysia airlines filing for bankruptcy shortly before MH370 went missing …..


    By filing for bankruptcy under Section 176 of the Companies Act, MAS will get rid of a number of problems simultaneously.

  39. Yes, I am sure about it, KingofWelshNoir.

    A NTSB intern passed the official message on to the TV station for which the intern was fired, and the agency apologized, though it had already done the damage, as you demonstrate.

    It was far more than just funny and in poor taste because it scapegoated the pilots for the sabotage beyond their control.

  40. The anguish of the relatives is increasing. It must be terrible for them.

    Missing Malaysia Jet: Chaos At News Conference

    Mayhem ensues as two relatives of passengers on the missing plane are jostled and one of them is knocked to the ground.

  41. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/03/18/missing-plane-mh370-computer_n_4984183.html?just_reloaded=1

    “The Flight Management System is used to direct the plane between waypoints on its journey. It is possible, officials said, that it was reprogrammed before the plane took off.”

    Yes…many things ‘possible’.

  42. Bankruptcy of malaysian airlines will cost jobs and reduced wages for pilots.


  43. Kenneth; The Bollyn piece states the Israeli media is speculating that if Israel blames Iran, that it’s an Israeli op. No cite for that I noticed on quick read. Can you supply?

    From that link to this.


  44. Abolghassem Mesbahi is probably an alias, but he sure gets around. Iran is responsible for everything from the Chicago fire to Lockerbie to 9/11. ‘Natch!


    In the one public hearing held on the case, the lawyers revealed the identity of purported former Iranian intelligence official Abolghasem Mesbahi – probably a pseudonym – and described his testimony that he had received a series of “coded messages” from a former colleague in the Iranian government in the late summer and early fall of 2001 warning that a terrorist attack against the United States was being planned, and that it was a plan that had been concocted by Tehran in the late 1980s.

  45. Ben
    19 Mar, 2014 – 2:22 pm

    That is very interesting………….and they try to tell us nothing on MH370 showed on their radar .

  46. Yes Katie. Diego Garica is about 3400 miles. 777 range about 5k. No sats have ground penetration do they?

  47. “I still find it extremely unlikely that the plane landed or crashed on land”

    Didn’t you hear about the passengers’ cell phones, which were still ringing a day after the plane disappeared? This means the phones were on the ground, still functioning and within the range of a base station. And didn’t you hear about the pings from the ACARS engine maintenance system, showing that the engines were still running (and therefore probably still airborne) some 5-7 hours after the last contact?

    “I cannot believe it could evade military detection as it flew over a highly militarized region”

    No such problem if it was flying over the Indian Ocean.

    On the basis of the current evidence, a landing in Diego Garcia is by some way the best call so far. I do wonder why the NSA hasn’t stepped forward to tell us where those phones were. It does, of course, know.

  48. Ben I wouldn’t know but as ‘communications’ are what they do there;

    “The United States Navy operates Naval Support Facility (NSF) Diego Garcia, a large naval ship and submarine support base, military air base, communications and space-tracking facility, and an anchorage for pre-positioned military supplies for regional operations aboard Military Sealift Command ships in the lagoon.”

    I will not be convinced they saw & know nothing.

    At last the media are now taking DG seriously;

    ‘Today it was also revealed that a remote island in the middle of the Indian Ocean with a runway long enough to land a Boeing 777 was programmed into the home flight simulator of the pilot of the missing Malaysia Airlines plane.
    Police are now urgently investigating whether Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah had practised landing at Diego Garcia, an island south of the Maldives occupied by the US navy.’

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2584123/Revealed-Malaysian-Airlines-pilot-high-security-US-base-Diego-Garcia-programmed-homemade-flight-simulator-deleted-data-just-taking-control-missing-plane.html#ixzz2wQIXlMeG

  49. @Trowbridge H. Ford 19 Mar, 2014 – 12:20 pm
    A copy of the passenger manifest. The original pdf from Malaysian Airlines is now “404 Not Found”. A deleted file!Verrrry ominous. Alert the hungry media hounds! 😉


    Has anyone determined where illusionist David Copperfield was at the time? He excelled in making aircraft disappear at night?

  50. Ba'al Zevul (Хождение в народ!)

    19 Mar, 2014 - 3:38 pm

    Putting the woo in the EU; I implore you not to take this one seriously, even if you are Sorcha Faal (who may have invented it)


    Our Mission: Multiplying hypotheses unnecessarily.

  51. As requested mine from the Chevaline thread. Hello to new names on here. (Now I have even more to read!!!)

    Tim V
    19 Mar, 2014 – 3:10 pm
    Thanks for that. It’s a chilling insight into how a little incident (a captain popping off for forty winks) can have disastrous consequences for a plane and all its occupants. More than anything else, the disaster appears to be down to an inexperienced pilot in control in adverse conditions, pulling up the nose and thus stalling the plane and loosing control of the plane. He could not understand why despite pulling back on the joystick the plane was loosing altitude. The more experienced co-pilot didn’t take control in time and didn’t realise what his colleague had been doing. The captain returned too late and fatefully didn’t take over. Just reading the transcript is an exercise in empathy and far more heart-stopping than a disaster movie.
    However I think it is pretty clear we have something quite different in the case of MH370 and the situations are not transferable, the simple reason being that we are told the latter was still being detected over seven hours after it was initially said to have crashed into the sea. As with Chevaline we are forced to make the best of what might be disingenuous information and trying to divine what is true and what is not, but no one seems to have questioned that bit of information so we must assume it is reliable. It means that over 7 hours later it was still flying or powered up on the ground SOMEWHERE. It rules out crash or submersion at least up to that point.
    Where the tragic AF447 story is illuminating is the statement that up until the belated retrieval of the black box and consequent flight deck conversation, the only indicative information available was the automatic engine printout sent back to AF HQ. This was enough to determine the plane had crashed and many of the technical parameters but could not divulge the human responses to them.
    So the inference for MH370 is two fold. Rolls Royce Boeing have all the information they require to recreate the flight plan. Probably every variation to engines and cockpit controls has been relayed including crucially take-off and landing. They must know where it has gone and where it set down.
    The other obvious point is that if the plane had crashed they would know beyond doubt it happened. They would surely have said this if it had happened at least. They are hiding behind “commercial confidentiality” which is questionable enough, but surely would not have done so if their technical feedback had confirmed crash?
    Yet again, apros pos Chevaline, we are in the realms of information known to some being with held to all for reasons only known to the “some”. Where so many lives and families are affected the immorality of that is plain to see. (No pun intended) The wider issue with all these things is who has a right to information and who has a right to withhold it for what reason?

    Tim V
    19 Mar, 2014 – 3:34 pm
    …. and on a related point, the reason underwater sonar detection has not been deployed, or at least trumpeted is easy to deduce. Because they know the aircraft is NOT as the American spokesman wanted us to believe, that it was at the bottom of the Indian Ocean. That statement by the way would infer a terrorist event, for why else would it crash?
    The problem with that is that no rational explanation has been forwarded for it. No terrorist organisation has come forward (again similar to Chevaline) We would for causation be back in “lone maniac” territory or state organised event. Was the US spokesman suggesting either of these?
    As I see it, there are a few alternatives. Maybe you can think of more.
    * If valuable cargo was on board it might be convenient to PRETEND it had crashed as cover for theft.
    * Alternatively if valuable cargo was stolen beforehand, it may be useful to crash the plane and pretend the cargo was lost as may have happened with that UN fight off Newfoundland (possibly)
    * Alternatively if it was necessary to prevent expertise of valuable cargo getting to China, detour or crash might have been considered worthwhile.
    * Alternatively as per the Sorensen/Bollyn theory, the operation was just to obtain an aeroplane that could be used in a terror event and blamed on an opponent.
    Whatever the reason (and there always must be one) given the fact that it didn’t crash as initially suggested, rather rules out 2 and 3 and points to either 1 or 4.

  52. Katie; As I understand it the pilot was not a jihadist, but he was political. X posted from the other thread in case you missed.

    It’s the Daily Mail…so…..photoshpped?

    “An image has emerged of the pilot of the missing Malaysia Airlines jet wearing a T-shirt with a ‘Democracy is Dead’ slogan as it has been revealed he could have hijacked the plane in an anti-government protest.

    Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah, a father-of-three, was said to be a ‘fanatical’ supporter of the country’s opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim – jailed for homosexuality just hours before the jet disappeared.

    It has also been revealed that the pilot’s wife and three children moved out of the family home the day before the plane went missing.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2581817/Doomed-airliner-pilot-political-fanatic-Hours-taking-control-flight-MH370-attended-trial-jailed-opposition-leader-sodomite.html#ixzz2wKZxhury
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  53. Blue

    Penang (WMKP) is 10997 and Butterworth (WMKB) is 8000

    MAS has had terrible trouble over recent years, mainly competition from “budget airlines” operating in that area.

    Depending on MAS “check lists” a fire onboard (due to the amount of fuel onboard and its max landing weight) would require a “fuel dump” to take place.

  54. @Katie – re Diego Garcia. My comment from the other thread. (Would not wish to deprive newcomers of my wit.)

    NR 18 Mar, 2014 – 9:15 pm
    The WH was asked directly if the aircraft was at Diego Garcia. Presidential spokesperson Jay Carney said it was not. Which, translated into common English, means it is.

    For a totally gratuitous dig at the president, “If you like your plane, you can keep your plane.” (For non-US readers, it’s a take off on a slogan for which he’s famous regarding health care.)

  55. NR; ObamACARe.

  56. @Ben 19 Mar, 2014 – 3:45 pm
    “Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah, a father-of-three, was said to be a ‘fanatical’ supporter of the country’s opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim – jailed for homosexuality just hours before the jet disappeared.”

    “It has also been revealed that the pilot’s wife and three children moved out of the family home the day before the plane went missing.”

    But later the DM reported the pilot’s daughter “fled” Australia, like some common criminal, and returned to the same home. Which they remind us is only 15 minutes from the airport. More verrrry ominous facts. Who but a terrorist pilot would live conveniently near the airport?

  57. @Ben 19 Mar, 2014 – 3:54 pm
    “NR; ObamACARe.”

    Good one. A hidden clue.

    Another daft idea. Warren Buffet should offer a billion (US) dollar prize to the first person to find MH370. Another goldrush, with the sea covered in rowboats and the Himalayas in humanity.

  58. “Who but a terrorist pilot would live conveniently near the airport?”

    Indeed. And what pilots enjoy their vocation as much as a terrorist?

    It sure helps craft the narrative.

  59. Why do people continue to imagine that mobile phones work at high altitudes and massive distances from towers?

  60. “Another daft idea. Warren Buffet should offer a billion (US) dollar prize to the first person to find MH370”

    May they live long enough to enjoy spending some of it.

  61. Diego Garcia Passenger Terminal was closed for three days starting 8 March.

    Scroll down about half way, and it’s on the right


  62. Ben, yes as NR has pointed out ,we went through all that on the Al Hilli thread….then we were asked to move here.

    I see nothing wrong with the pilots being political, he went to the trial of the opposition leader who has been jailed for sodomy, everyone wondered about that,but it then turned out the man is related to him through marriage & his son in law.

    I was one shouting for the police to look at that simulator, but have since decided this is not about muslim ,jihadists or what has become the norm for terrorism.

    I strongly suspect this is a western intelligence op, but somewhere along the line it hasn’t quite worked out for them,people now demand answers more than they did.
    I hope I am right & that the plane is ‘not’ being stored for a terrorist plot, that thought is too awful to contemplate.
    The best that can come out of this crime is that security systems now get tightened in that part of the world & the transponder cannot be turned off inflight !

  63. Dre; Picked up on the Freescale 20? Freescale hit a 52 week high on March 7th

    What a coinky dinky.

  64. Katie; Diego Garcia could be a red herring. That flight plan on the simulator could have been placed by others. It would be nice to get something concrete going. I suspect someone has seen something…….even in the dark.


  65. It could well be Ben, but I put a lot of weight behind the Maldive sightings.

    I couldn’t get to the FB page, dicky connection here in the country, but,I love this on the DG military website;
    ‘Reminder To All Space-A Travers: Per DoD 4515.13-R, “C6.1.9. Conditions of Travel…….. There is no guaranteed space for any traveler.
    The Department of Defense is not obligated to continue an individual’s travel or return him or her to point of origin, or any other point.”


  66. Katie;

    That’s ‘Deadhead’ travel. The commercial airliners do it for employees, as space is available.

    I have searched for any possible connection to the heroin deaths of two former SEALS who were found aboard Maersk Alabama. Many contractors work as security against pirates. Supposedly (unconfirmed) they had just delivered a mysterious package. The timeline doesn’t jibe.

  67. Honey trap?

    “Kennedy, distinctive by his muscled physique and bald head, was said to be flirting with female croupiers and bar servers. After four hours in the casino they were asked to leave at 3am when it was time to close.

    CCTV footage from nearby restaurants caught them wandering off down an alleyway with the two women.

    The men were logged back on the ship at 6am with police now trying to find out where they went for the three hours before their return.
    It is not uncommon for former soldiers turned contractors to indulge in the shady temptations on offer in some of the most dangerous places abroad – away from the support and love of their families.

    But to those who knew Kennedy, he didn’t fit this cliche.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2575749/Whats-chances-two-Navy-SEALs-turning-dead-room-Family-friends-demand-US-investigation-mystery-hookers-heroin-deaths-ship-famous-Captain-Philips.html#ixzz2wQr2ugbS
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  68. There’s something seriously wrong when data has to be protected.

    ‘Malaysian officials have confirmed they have received ‘some radar data’ from other countries about the missing Flight MH370 today – but claimed they were ‘not at liberty’ to release the information.
    Speaking at a press conference this afternoon, acting Transport Minister Hishammuddin Hussein said Malaysia was continuing to co-ordinate the search for the missing Boeing 777-200ER.

    Confirming other countries were to take the lead on the search in other areas, he added:
    ‘I can confirm that we have received some radar data, but we are not at liberty to release information from other countries.’

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2584399/Malaysia-confirms-new-radar-data-missing-plane-flying-country-wont-say-security-reasons.html#ixzz2wQtKX0qM

  69. Katie

    There are specific rules about releasing “data” prior to an investigation.
    That’s just the way it is.

    Is it “dodgy” ? I don’t know. But it is the way things are done.
    The airlines “oblige” because it will be them that will be investigated in the end.

    However, from what I can tell, a satellite “received” a “ping” from the aircraft several hours into it’s “unknown” flight.

    What was that “ping”.
    Was that transmission “engine data” ?

  70. Thanks James.

    Apparently a ‘ping’ is similar to a hand shake just to let you know the plane is ‘alive’ !.
    It bounces off a beacon as long as a plane is powered up…that’s in flight or on the ground under auxiliary power.
    This is why it’s a red herring saying the plane was flying for X hours, they simply do not know if it actually was airborne or not.

  71. Malaysia confirms it has new radar data on missing plane flying over another country (but won’t say where for security reasons)


  72. It doesn’t quite work like that…. or that satellite will be picking up lots of “hiya’s” from all the traffic. That “data” wouldn’t make any sense.

    All systems work at passing data.
    Either by VHF over land or by satellites over the sea.
    Even IFF (Id Friend or Foe) is “data”.

    That satellite has to “ask” whatever system it is interrogating and then data is sent. Unless the data is “trying to send” and then “finds” the satellite it can transmit to.

  73. I suspect the ‘highly unusual suspension’ is for getting caught.

    “The suspension, which many have called “highly unusual,” follows the disturbing report of an illegal nuclear warhead transfer to South Carolina from Dyess Air Force Base in Texas, a military installation under the Strategic Air Command. That same day, Senator Lindsay Graham strangely announced that South Carolina would likely be subject to a nuclear attack if the United States did not immediately intervene militarily in Syria, all occurring at the moment of Giardina’s suspension.”

    Read more: http://www.storyleak.com/u-s-nuke-commander-suspended-alleged-gambling-investigation/#ixzz2wR80Wam8

  74. How would one promulgate another 9/11 that would trump all other ‘terrorist’ acts, yet leave NO evidence except maybe the origin of the nuke, which might conveniently have a Russkie signature?

  75. The “body in the bag” spy death in London looked like it was one party – maybe a criminal enterprise or another country’s spy agency – sending a message to MI6: Look What We Can Do.

    I wonder whether this is a spy agency – like the CIA – sending a message to another party – China’s government – saying: Look What We Can Do. We can make a plane with your citizens on it – including semiconductor engineers – disappear.

  76. Well there you are James, I was repeating what the guy on TV told us…….

    It’s getting hard to believe anything they say .

    I had a similar thought earlier today.
    What if it was an experiment to test what ‘could’ be done with a 777 by remote ,with all those techie geeks on board it’s possible, maybe not probable,but then they couldn’t get it back on track ?

  77. Ibrahim statements….http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/18/world/asia/malaysia-flight-anwar-pilot/

    “He alleged that the speculation had only gained traction as a result of the government trying to deflect attention from its “incompetent” handling of the crisis.

    “I think there’s a desperation by the government of the ruling leadership over the manner they managed the whole crisis. Clearly incompetent, contradictory statements, poor management of the crisis,” he said.”

    Incompetent handlers is an opportunity for other competencies.

  78. James; What of infrared satellites? I hesitate to suggest a conspiracy of silence amongst so many, but it is a question no media outlet I know of is pursuing.

  79. Katie

    Basically…. you just can’t “pick up” one ping.
    It has to be a series over a period of time.

    And that “ping” is “data”.

    So…. ping, ping, ping, ping.
    OR data, data, data, data !

    If that “data” is from the engines (or the “second channel”) then you can see (and I expect that it can be seen) what the aircraft is doing.

    By “what it is doing” I mean if the engines are set to cruise, working harder than normal, in approach, climbing etc etc etc.

    So they “know” what the aircraft was doing….they just don’t know where it was doing it !

  80. I find it hard to believe no data retention on satellite array. Heat signatures include the exhaust from a Boeing Rolls-Royce I would think.

    “US spy satellites detected no sign of a mid-air explosion when a Malaysian airliner lost contact with air traffic controllers, American officials said Wednesday.”

    Read more: MISSING MH370: US satellites found no blast – Latest – New Straits Times http://www.nst.com.my/latest/font-color-red-missing-mh370-font-us-satellites-found-no-blast-1.510492#ixzz2wRIoN9my

  81. “This is why it’s a red herring saying the plane was flying for X hours, they simply do not know if it actually was airborne or not”

    True, but that doesn’t make it a red herring. It tells us that the plane had not crashed, which is very significant.

  82. Ben

    My bet ? They have “data”.

    So “onboard fire” is “unlikely”. It was still flying.

    Hypoxia ? It is still possibility.
    And so is “pilot suicide” and also “hijack”.

  83. @James
    Good point about ACARS using VHF radio when in range of land and where the area is so equipped. It’s something MSM fails to mention.

    There was a reference to extending radio coverage in that area, especially Thailand, though don’t remember what year. It may be that radio coverage is currently only available near airports.

    Something else that’s not mentioned is there’s an intermediate company between the airline and the satellite provider.

    The SITA system is designed so that airlines set, and can change, the routing decisions — radio vs satellite — based on data rate and quantity of data as a trade-off against cost. Satellite charges are down to where it’s the equivalent to international phone roaming costs, but that’s still considerable for a fleet.

    Some airlines opt to hold non-critical data and dump it upon arrival at the gate via wifi Internet.

    Immarsat issued a press release saying Malaysian Airlines subscribe to their “Classic” service, which I take to mean their oldest service using 3 Geo-synchonus satellites providing coverage from 80 degrees north and south latitudes. Immarsat offer many other types of service, including zoned by area or country — more powerful and permitting smaller, notebook sized devices and higher data rates.

    Airlines flying polar routes use the Irridium satellite service.

    No one has said who pays for the Rolls Royce and Boeing ACARS service. Is that part of the airlines’ subscription or do those companies subscribe separately and build the cost into the price of the product?


  84. NR

    Basically….yes !

    With an engine manufacturer it is part of the “package” depending on what package you buy.

    ACARS also works the same.You buy a package. It can transmit more frequently than 30 mins. That is likely the longest setting there is.

    With ACARS (and other comms of such) you have two channels.
    If one fails, it transfers over to the second.
    You cannot fly with one channel only (except a ferry flight to maintenance base).

    In the main (over land) you transmit with VHF.
    Over sea you transmit via satellite.

    Hence ACARS transmitting over channel “one” did not fail.
    It would have “failed” if “both” channels did not transmit OR was “shut down”.

  85. Juan, yes good point & a valid one.

    My point was that at first when they talked about these ‘pings’ they took it for granted the plane was in the air for four [?] hours, only when we sleuths asked if the ‘pings’ could continue if the aircraft had landed.

  86. Katie….

    Read what you wrote. You say “pings”. Plural !
    They say “ping”.

    I believe what you wrote (pings) is correct. Not one. More than one.

  87. Sorry , the last line got cut.

    ‘So,only when we sleuths asked if the ‘pings’ could continue if the aircraft had landed…did it become clear that they could & that the plane may not have flown very far at all.’

  88. No James, there were 5 pings if I remember rightly. .

    ‘Malaysian authorities believe they have several “pings” from the airliner’s service data system, known as ACARS, transmitted to satellites in the four to five hours after the last transponder signal, suggesting the plane flew to the Indian Ocean, a senior U.S. official told CNN.’


  89. More on ‘pings’.

    “It’s not clear what the indication was, but senior administration officials told ABC News the missing Malaysian flight continued to “ping” a satellite on an hourly basis after it lost contact with radar. The Boeing 777 jetliners are equipped with what is called the Airplane Health Management system in which they ping a satellite every hour. The number of pings would indicate how long the plane stayed aloft.’


  90. James; The ascent to 45k “coffin corner’ (was it revised to 43?) and the rapid descent…..G-forces extant would disable crew, no?

  91. Katie

    Then that indicates the Malaysians authorities cannot be trusted at all !

    As in…
    They must have spoken to the US authorities and confirmed that flight data was transmitting (which I suspect to be true) or the US “own” the satellite !

    BUT the US could not “suggest” where it flew to.
    That would be impossible given that the “transponder was turned off”.
    Unless they have a primary radar track ? Or just guessing ? Or “know” ?

    From all of this, we can say that the a/c was “health” at that time.
    And I suspect “flying”.

  92. Ben

    I fly higher ! But in a different a/c.

    I have not got a clue why he went that high.
    Thinner air maybe, decrease your burn rate ?
    Hypoxia fuelled climb ?
    Systems failure ?
    I have no idea.

    Oddly they had a track !

    What they don’t say is, primary radar does have “calcs”.
    It has “interceptions calcs”. Even without a correct transponder “ping” or a correct IFF, you can track an intercept. That is after all the whole point.

  93. ” ACARS will be superseded by the Aeronautical Telecommunications Network (ATN) protocol for Air Traffic Control communications and by the Internet Protocol for airline communications.”


    ATN supercedes ACARS/FANS when?


    “In the early 1990s, the Boeing company announced a first generation FANS product known as FANS-1. This was based on the early ICAO technical work for automatic dependent surveillance (ADS) and controller–pilot data link communications (CPDLC), and implemented as a software package on the flight management computer of the Boeing 747-400. It used existing satellite based ACARS communications (Inmarsat Data-2 service) and was targeted at operations in the South Pacific Oceanic region. The deployment of FANS-1 was originally justified by improving route choice and thereby reducing fuel burn.

    The datalink control and display unit (DCDU) on an Airbus A330, the pilot interface for sending and receiving CPDLC messages.
    A similar product (FANS-A) was later developed by Airbus for the A340 and A330. Boeing also extended the range of aircraft supported to include the Boeing 777 and 767. Together, the two products are collectively known as FANS-1/A. The main industry standards describing the operation of the FANS-1/A products are ARINC 622 and EUROCAE ED-100/RTCA DO-258. Both the new Airbus A380 and Boeing 787 have FANS-1/A capability”

  94. James; It may have been fiction but I remember a movie where the pilot had to go into a steep dive to put out engine fire. Can’t remember the name of the WWII movie (B-17). But he was already at 35k, so like you say, if he was seeking thinner air.

  95. P.S.


    When it comes to “Carriers”…they want to avoid “legals” as much as possible.
    Do I trust them !!!!!

    Not a chance !

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