Disappearing Aircraft

by craig on March 19, 2014 8:07 am in Uncategorized

I had fairly well concluded that the most likely cause was a fire disrupting the electrical and control systems, when CNN now say the sharp left turn was pre-programmed 12 minutes before sign off from Malaysian Air Traffic control, which was followed fairly quickly by that left turn.

CNN claim to have this from an US official, from data sent back before the reporting systems went off.  It is hard to know what to make of it: obviously there are large economic interests that much prefer blame to lie with the pilots rather than the aircraft.  But if it is true then the move was not a response to an emergency.  (CNN went on to say the pilot could have programmed in the course change as a contingency in case of an emergency.  That made no sense to me at all – does it to anyone else?)

I still find it extremely unlikely that the plane landed or crashed on land  I cannot believe it could evade military detection as it flew over a highly militarized region.  Somewhere there is debris on the ocean.  There have been previous pilot suicides that took the plane with them; but the long detour first seems very strange and I do not believe is precedented.  However if the CNN information on pre-programming is correct, and given it was the co-pilot who signed off to air traffic control, it is hard to look beyond the pilots as those responsible for whatever did happen.  In fact, on consideration, the most improbable thing is that information CNN are reporting from the US official.

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  1. Copied from AH thread:

    Marlin, there’s more on that here,it’s a good summary;

    :From Diego Garcia to Where?

    If suppose we are to assume that the plane was indeed diverted to Diego Garcia, it is reasonable to assume that the plane and its passengers would not be kept there indefinitely. If we are to follow the logic of some devoted conspiracy theorists who are pursuing this on other forums, the plane and its passengers would be flown to the Eastern mainland of the United States, over the Atlantic Ocean to escape scrutiny (and comparatively less distance than the other way around). Of course, the plane’s livery would be painted over. The plane’s wreckage would later be carefully deposited by (presumably by air) on a location far away from Diego Garcia.

    But why are we discussing this here?

    ‘Because the same devoted conspiracy theorists who are pursuing this on other forums have pointed out that four days after the disappearance of MH370, a curious military exercise took place on the Southern-Eastern part of the United States coastline. Fighter jets were reportedly “escorting” a plane. To quote,

    “Members of the South Carolina Air National Guard are conducting an air defense exercise along the coast. Guard Senior Master Sergeant Edward Snyder says people might see fighter jets escorting a civilian aircraft Thursday over the North Charleston and Myrtle Beach areas.


    However ,my posting
    Mar, 2014 – 11:08 am

    With the link for the first Maldive sighting , now being taken seriously by the media, is strengthened & possibly confirms where this MH370 went for refuelling & re-flagging,before travelling further.

  2. Hi Craig. I have the great honor of making the first comment in a new discussion?

    You asked: “(CNN went on to say the pilot could have programmed in the course change as a contingency in case of an emergency. That made no sense to me at all – does it to anyone else?)”

    Apparently some very conscientious pilots do indeed pre-load a path to the nearest suitable airport in case of emergency, and change it as the flight progresses. It allows them to quickly select the new path with one command if needed.

  3. @Katie
    Drat! You beat me to it. One great mystery is how “they” know that somebody entered an alternate course, and whether it was before or after the last communication (whenever that was). It’s all based on an unnamed source, initially I think to the New York Times. Whether it’s a from ACARS via Rolls Royce or Boeing or some other source is unclear.

    There may be good legal and business reasons why it isn’t officially announced.

  4. If the plane did land somewhere my guess would be Mongolia or in an area where there is no phone signal, because otherwise there would have been passenger attempts to inform loved ones that they were safe. Suicide still seems most likely short of this.

  5. “…and given it was the co-pilot who signed off to air traffic control”

    How is this significant? With most airlines it’s normal that whoever is the handling pilot for the sector talks on the radio. Ultimately it’s the captain’s decision who is the handling pilot but unless there are special considerations (marginal weather or the like – at British Airways, for example, it’s always the captain who’s handling pilot for autolands) captains and first officers (F/Os) will alternate by sector (ie, flight). A captain who didn’t give F/Os their reasonable share of sectors would be pretty unpopular and would be pulled up by the airline as it wouldn’t be allowing the F/Os to get necessary experience.

    By the way, the term “co-pilot” is hardly used these days. I think it has some specific technical meaning, something like that an F/O is considered a “co-pilot” for sectors where they’re not the handling pilot. There’s some rule or other about them only being able to count a certain number of co-pilot hours towards certain licence upgrades (commercial with frozen ATPL to ATPL). Can’t remember the details, read the rules years ago while sitting bored in CAA Flight Crew Licensing at Gatwick while waiting for them to sort out a problem with a rating on my private licence. But normally (ie., except when training or whatever) the person in the left seat is the captain and the one in the right seat is the first officer.

    The difference between the two is a lot less than many people think. The captain will typically have had more experience and will have overall responsibility for the flight but when it comes to actual handling of the aircraft both can and will do almost all of the jobs.

    If the captain was using the radio for earlier calls and suddenly the FO was talking then that might be slightly significant but likely only indicates that the captain was busy at that moment – maybe he’d gone to the toilet or something. Of course, one of the crew being off the flight deck might be part of the story here but the F/O replying is not in itself sinister in any way.

  6. Breaking news! The only news! From the morning Malaysian press conference. Files Deleted! The pilot had deleted files from his home flight simulator computer.

    Shocking, whoever heard of such a thing. Deleted files on a PC.

  7. @Marlin

    Hi there on here.

    In answer to your question. I wasn’t aware that he reached FL450.
    If he did, then that “could” have happened for any number of reasons that could be deliberate or accidental (depending on system failures and awareness of the situation).

    ONE thing to remember (and I guess it is the same for Chevaline), the authorities WILL NOT reveal all the data they have.

    With regard to ACARS, it depends on what ACARS package MAS has.
    Personally I don’t see that they have a “30 minute” burst transmissions. This is the national carrier of Malaysia. Not a “tin pot” airline (although they are behaving in that way).

    Also ACARS data won’t be made public. Firstly they are not allowed to do that until after an investigation (and as yet, as far as I am aware, that hasn’t even started. This is still a “search and rescue” mission. The plane is still listed as “missing”).

    With regards what could have happened.

  8. @Ed Davies

    The “basically” the terms used would be….
    PIC and SIC. Pilot In Command and Second In Command.
    Then they’ll have designated PF and PNF. Pilot Flying and Pilot Not Flying for that sector.

    Here it looks like it was PIC/PF and SIC/PNF due to the fact that the “Co Pilot” was handling the radio communications (and didn’t appear to be stressed).

    However….if “that” was his “sign off” to Malaysian ATC, then it was a rather relaxed one (unless there was a communication from the controller just before which was repeated back by the SIC/PNF).

  9. The journalist and author with in-depht knowledge of what went on 9/11, and who has researchet 9/11 like no other, and lost his job as a result of this, Christopher Bollyn, weighs in:

    [my emphasis] [links added]

    Are the Israelis Planning Another 9-11 Using the Missing Boeing 777?

    By Christopher Bollyn_________March 18, 2014


    An Israel-based reporter named Paul Alster has a very interesting article on FoxNews.com giving an Israeli prognosis about the missing Malaysian Boeing 777. The Alster article is important because it suggests that the Israelis may be setting the stage for a false-flag event using the missing Malaysian plane as a flying bomb in an attack similar to 9-11.

    The article, which follows this introduction, is very revealing because it contains information that indicates that the Israelis may be projecting a terror scenario by planting the ideation in the public mind by using the media. Ideation in this case is the projection of the scenario planned by the terror masterminds who put the idea into people’s heads so that they will blame the targeted foe when their plot unfolds into reality. The following article has comments from Israeli El Al airport “security” veterans that are very similar to comments tweeted by Rupert Murdoch in the past day or two. How interesting that Murdoch and the Israeli airline security people imagine the exact same fate for the missing Boeing. How telling.

    It is important to note that these Israeli El Al security people are the same people (ICTS, Menachem Atzmon, and assorted Mossadniks), who carried out the ideation (Murdoch’s “Lone Gunmen” pilot episode and Arnon Milchan’s Medusa Touch film come to mind) and false-flag attacks of 9-11. This is what the evidence I present in my Solving 9-11 books reveals about Israeli involvement in false-flag terrorism of 9-11. The fact that the same people are now projecting the ideation of the Boeing 777 being used in a terror attack needs to be taken very seriously.

    The game is on. Beware of the very real possibility that the plane may resurface, used as a weapon of terror to cause a provocation that can be used to initiate aggression against a targeted foe – such as the Islamic Republic of Iran. If enough people realize the evil game of deception the Israelis are up to, they won’t be able to pull off another major terror spectacle – and get away with it.


    Bollyn thinks that Israel is directly implicated in 9/11. While this is fascinating – and certainly welcome as a contrast to how the mainstream media portarys the situation (and many of his carefully researched information relating to Israelis in the aircraft business in the US and the like is certainly interesting in itself)- I’ve never been prepared to go that far.

    I think Israel’s intelligence services knew what was going to happen, and one can discuss if it’s not a criminality that they did not inform the US authorities. From Israel’s perspective it was enormously important to get the US directly involved in fighting its enemies, and it has since 9/11 gained ‘a new lease of life’, thriving and spinning money and businesses in providing info about all sorts of radical islamists to all the worlds intelligence services, and selling surveillance equipment all over the world.

    A country which always has considered itself to be in a permanent state of war is undoubtedly prepared to go to great lenghts, also lenghts that people like us living in peace are not prepared to even consider. But I still hesitate to go along with the notion that they would actually kill 3,000 people on 9/11 to achieve their aim of getting practically the whole world to join its fight, and in this way get a new lease of life.

    But lets get a fair trial, as used to happen whenever large amounts of people gets killed in a criminality. But we’ve never had that,- and that very suspicious. Bollyn documents how Jewish lawyers, law enforcement officials and judges time and again have shelved any investigation into those who might have known about what was going to happen. It would be fair to procecute these people, because no matter if Israel had an existential interest in 9/11, it’s not fair to kill close to 3,000 innocents in the process, – not to mention the hundred of thousands of innocents who have died in the wake of 9/11 in wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and even Palestine and Lebanon, where Israel used the guise of the global “war on terror” — and its new found self confidence .. to clamp down on Palestinians and Lebanese.

    So all in all he’s a lot more sensible than many other commenters, including the right honoured Mr. Craig Murray, because Bollyn is very clear about how it was undue Western interference in Ukraine’s internal affairs, that prompted Putin to take matters into his own hands and show how vital national interests always will trumph fears of santions, -which means its stupid to use sanctions, if they don’t work. It’s not only stupid, it’s detrimental to our own interests, and it could well be dangerous because it is whipping up hatred and contempt. Much more wise it would be to invite Russia into NATO, which they want, and into economic coorperation with the EU – which latter organisation should NEVER have evolved anyfurther than to a British inspired Free Trade Club. If EU still had been primarily a free trade organistaion like the EEC, Russia could easily have joined, and everybody would be happy.

  10. “All okay. Good night” isn’t really a “communication” as such !

    Could someone confirm what the “official” communication was, the one released by the Malaysian authorities ?

  11. “There may be good legal and business reasons why it isn’t officially announced”.

    It is all governed under the Montreal Convention (Article 21 parargraph 1 and 2). This convention gives the air carrier “limited liability” in return for “presumed fault”.

    There are other “conditions” which revolve around the “reckless” behaviour of a carrier (and a bit of a legal mine field), however “if” proved then (I believe) there is no privilege granted of limited liability. The liability could become “unlimited”.

  12. Marcus,
    I can’t agree with that ,a lot are posting that theory of fire on Twitter,but surely a fire would have allowed enough time for at least one phone call to get through ?

    Yes that is the official announcement , it has also been said that is the wrong flying ‘change over code /message’ so it should have rung alarm bells.

    Yes, we are told, he did climb to 45,000 & then dropped to 20,000, eventually down to 5,000ft.

  13. Now we get another thread about the sabotaged airliner just when the previous one was getting interesting with the announcement that Allianz, the German insurance company, was paying out today $100 million to Malaysia for the loss of its plane and its 239 victims.

    The company could only have done so if some important player guaranteed the payments, and it seems to have been Beijing which is having all kinds of problems with the relatives of the victims.

    China would only have done so if it knows that the plane was destroyed, and will not be found.

    This is supported by its Ministry of State Security announcing in a most unprecedented manner that none of its victims could have been involved in any terrorism. Of course, there is a first time for almost anything.

    Looks like it knows who did the sabotage, and the first place to look would be by checking the passenger manifests for both this flight and the Asiana Flight 214 to see if any passenger or passengers were on them both – what I shall now be doing.

    Will attempt no more now for fear that this post like several others will be prevented from appearing.

  14. Ba'al Zevul (Хождение в народ!)

    19 Mar, 2014 - 11:27 am

    Very sensible theory here. Not discounted by preprogrammed diversion, as far as I can see – perhaps supported by it;


    See we have pilots here. True for you?

  15. Ba’al Zevul (Хождение В Народ!)
    19 Mar, 2014 – 11:27 am

    That theory has a logical problem.
    If there is an emergency because of fire why wouldnt he land in Butterworth or Penang intl.?
    Butterworth doesnt have any obstacles and it is an airforce port open 24×365. He was flying directly above butterworth. Why would he want to fly another 200 miles if there was an airport directly below his flight route?

    Second logical problem: the plane was too heavy for landing. First thing a pilot does before landing is opening the fuel tanks. If he didnt do that then he wouldnt have wanted to land.
    However, if he did it, the plane wouldnt have had fuel for another 6 hours.

    Solution: there hadnt been any kind of intention to land.

    Theory debunked.

  16. This is the FIRST time in history of flight insurance that an insurance company (german Allianz) is paying for dead PAX before they were officially declared as being dead.

    Other than that there is the only other possibility that the government did already declare them as being dead but the gov didnt tell that to the media deliberately.
    That would suggest that they know much more than they are telling us.

  17. BB.
    I agree with you about there not being a fire…because of the lack of phone calls, but not about landing.
    IF, the plane flew to DG it would have done almost 3 hours flying so could have landed & refilled to fly on.
    Plus, had the flying height been, as suggested, 5,000 more fuel would have been burnt up.

    See my link posted earlier;


  18. Ideation

    A wish for a different explanation from the obvious.

    The obvious explanation of the events in the Ukraine is that Zionists including the loop of Saudi Arabia, have swapped control Russian involvement in the Mediterranean at Syria, for Russian annexation of the Crimea so that they can remove Assad and get their sticky fingers on Syria.

    The obvious explanation for the Malaysian plane going missing is Obama’s interest in the Pacific. What do the zio-banksters of the Pacific want him to do? Obviously not bankrupt or upset China. The rise of China and the Far East is a creation of the Zio-banksters by which to dis-empower us Europeans, those US jobless citizens, and those very wealthy oil-sheikh pawns, who threaten their mad ideology to re-create the cult of Judea.

    I agree with Kenneth Sorensen that the disappearance of the plane tempts us to imagine a repetition of 9/11 to create a new war on Terror zone in Obama’s new, Pacific area of operations. However, because I always believe the opposite of what liars try to get me to believe, I think that USUKIS want us to take our eyes off the ball, which is the disabling of Muslim countries in the Middle-East and the re-colonisation by ISUSUK of Africa.

  19. Bluebird – if there was a fire he may not have been to jettison fuel?

    But knowing this area,a little, I agree Butterworth is much nearer. But is it an international airport or a military base? Anyway Penang is so close by it must have been an option. They would have much better facilities for dealing with an emergency than Langkawi.

    The wired article is plausible but could there really have been a failure of all communication systems:

    “There was most likely a fire or electrical fire. In the case of fire the first response if to pull all the main busses and restore circuits one by one until you have isolated the bad one.

    If they pulled the busses the plane indeed would go silent. It was probably a serious event and they simply were occupied with controlling the plane and trying to fight the fire”

    Why would anyone do this? couldn’t he have fired off at least one SOS before closing down electrical systems?

  20. Looks like finding the passenger manifest for Asiana Flight 214 will be rather difficult since it apparently doesn’t exist.

    When I google for it, I only get images of the result – pictures of the plane which experienced those two fires while landing, photos of all kinds of relatives and survivors, even The NTSB claiming the the pilots were called ‘Sum Ting Wong’, ‘Wi To Low’, and “Ho Lee Fuk’, No image of any actual manifest.

    Might well explain why the FAA fined it $500,000 recently for not being informative and supportive enough of those who were alarmed by the fiasco – what Malaysia, thanks to Beijing’s assistance, is doing its best to avoid now.

  21. Playing the devils advocate, I would like to say that there could be a problem with Bluebirds statement:

    He was flying directly above butterworth. Why would he want to fly another 200 miles if there was an airport directly below his flight route?

    - because a pilot who has lost engine-thrust is concerned with taking a smooth effortless glide down towards something that is right before him, and not necessarily in making anymore sharp U-turns or down-spiralling.

  22. Also, if he had lost communication he couldn’t…..communicate with Butterworth, which is a military base, which would very much appreciate any incoming traffic to identify itself beforehand. He might very well have felt more comfortably by an airfield that was ahead of him, and to which he could make a quiet descent. But it’s very surprising that no debris has been found along this path.

  23. Sorensen

    The U-turn happend more than 30 minutes earlier than he arrived in butterworth/penang.

    More than enough time to glide smoothly either towards butterworth airforce base or to penang international and also at the same time to reduce weight by opening the fuel tanks.

    He did never intend to land there at that time.
    He/ or the person controlling that flight, must have had a totally different intention …. if they werent shot down by their own airforce earlier on.

  24. Ba'al Zevul (Хождение в народ!)

    19 Mar, 2014 - 12:32 pm

    Thanks for the expert input. From the wired piece;

    “The captain did not turn back to Kuala Lampur because he knew he had 8,000-foot ridges to cross. He knew the terrain was friendlier toward Langkawi, which also was closer.”

    If he had preprogrammed an escape route, might he not have picked Langkawi for those reasons? Why not Butterworth? Because it’s a MATZ, maybe? I see 18/36 at Butterworth is only 8000′ long, while Langkawi is 13000′ – would give him more error room, I’d have thought, as a 777 needs over 2Km (~6600 feet).

    Re. the fuel tanks: point taken, but if he’d made the decision to go to Lankawi, he wouldn’t have jettisoned immediately…before he did, unconsciousness /death had supervened.

    However, chances are we’ll never know.

  25. Can any say what powers the planes headlights ?
    Because if the multiple sightings over the Maldives are true, all lights were said to be blazing on the aircraft,which is what first got their attention .

    I’d say that showed the aircraft was preparing to land.

  26. Trowbridge

    ‘…even The NTSB claiming the the pilots were called ‘Sum Ting Wong’, ‘Wi To Low’, and “Ho Lee Fuk’

    Trowbridge, are you sure about that? These names were a hoax played upon Bay Area Fox Affiliate KTVU, whose newsreader read them out on air. You can see the footage here:


    I hate to say it, but it is very funny, albeit in extremely poor taste.

  27. Langkawi has 8000 ft runway according to that site. There are confusing statistics.
    However, Langkawi is open from 9am to 4pm ONLY and the runway pkus the airport is closed at night.
    I suggest to check if there are any runway lights at all on langkawi runway. I seriously doubt so. However, the airport is closed at night and there is nobody to turn on the lights if there are any.

    Penang runway is 11.000 ft. and Penang airport is open 24 hours.

    There is no reason whatsoever to ignore butterworth or penang in case of an emergency in the middle of the night.

  28. The Allianz insurance payout must be the quickest insurance payout in history !

    03/19/2014 11:30
    Allianz Insurer Starts Pay-Outs On Missing Malaysian Airliner Claims
    Deutsche Welle
    Allianz Insurer Starts Pay-Outs On Missing Malaysian Airliner Claims
    German insurance company Allianz has started making payments on claims related to missing Malaysian Airline flight MH370. The company says it is seeking to complete claims payments by the end of the week. Allianz and other co-reinsurers of the Malaysian Airlines aviation hull and liability policy had.

    German insurance company Allianz has started making payments on claims related to missing Malaysian Airline flight MH370. The company says it is seeking to complete claims payments by the end of the week.

    Allianz and other co-reinsurers of the Malaysian Airlines aviation hull and liability policy had made initial payments linked to the disappearance of Malaysian Airlines flight MH370, the German insurance company announced late on Tuesday.

    The company, which is Malaysia Airlines’ lead insurer, were confirming an earlier report in the German business daily Handelsblatt. In its Wednesday edition, Handelsblatt reported that payments in the case would amount to about $100 million (72 million euros) for the aircraft and the 239 people on board.

    Allianz declined to comment on the exact sum of claims and how much of it would be passed on to other insurers in the consortium.

    “This is in agreement with the insurance broker, Willis, and is in line with normal market practice and our contractual obligations where an aircraft is reported missing,” Allianz said in a statement.”

    So, there’s no time limit on a missing aircraft, all it needs is that word, ‘missing’ ???

    Pull the other one Allianz, whom I might add , are my own insurers !

  29. Could somebody please measure the length of penang, langkawi and butterworth runways on google earth simply because there are confusing and wrong lengths of langkawi runway given on different websites. My source says 8000 ft.

    Also measuring the length of the Diego Garcia runway on google earth would be appreciated.

    Also the distance between butterworth airfield and langkawi runway would be good to know.
    I remember that sorensen was good at that.

  30. Ba'al Zevul (Хождение в народ!)

    19 Mar, 2014 - 1:14 pm

    03/21 at Langkawi is 12,500ft long


    But I grant you the runway lights. It has them (see link – others may be out-of-date) but whether they were on or not probably depends on whether there was scheduled traffic. More research needed.

  31. Ba'al Zevul (Хождение в народ!)

    19 Mar, 2014 - 1:15 pm

    Could somebody please measure the length of penang, langkawi and butterworth runways on google earth

    I favour the DIY approach. Lazy sod.

  32. Katie They didn’t, or wouldn’t, pay out for my recent storm damage claim. Wear and tear – the old saw. I am surprised Act of God did not come into it.

  33. I immediately rush to Bluebird‘s defense, who has made invaluabable contributions to the solving of the al Hilli murder case, which many journalists over the months have benefitted from by the method of lurking. Bluebird could be more than three score years old, and as razor sharp he is about….well, almost anything, he typically is completely ignorant about technically trivialities, like YouTube, which he learned about for the first time around 3 months ago.

  34. Ed Davies

    Sorry for the ambiguity – I didn’t mean there was any significance in it being the co-pilot rather than the pilot, I only meant the crew were still apparently in control of the plane

  35. Kenneth Sorensen calling Bluebird. Come in Bluebird two-three-five-zero. Everything looking good. Approaching Keanang. Coming in two-thre-five six. Roger [Moore] and over.

  36. Sorensen
    I know how to measure on google earth but i am only on my smart phone right now and this is impossible to do there. :)
    I hope that the excuse will be accepted.

    Something else:

    The broker for the insurance for airplane MH370 and passengers was

    The Sears Tower in chicago is called Willis Tower nowadays.

    Allianz will pay $ 100 million for plane and passenger families if there was an accident, however, in case of terror or hijacking it is Lloyds who’ll have to pay.
    Insurance responsibility for the cargo is still unknown at this time.

  37. Mary….don’t start me on insurance companies, in my experience they put every obstacle in the way before parting with a penny .
    We are all made to feel dishonest when trying to claim… I cannot believe payouts have already been made, meaning, within DAYS money was received.

  38. No media was telling that ever before:
    Malaysia airlines filing for bankruptcy shortly before MH370 went missing …..


    By filing for bankruptcy under Section 176 of the Companies Act, MAS will get rid of a number of problems simultaneously.

  39. Yes, I am sure about it, KingofWelshNoir.

    A NTSB intern passed the official message on to the TV station for which the intern was fired, and the agency apologized, though it had already done the damage, as you demonstrate.

    It was far more than just funny and in poor taste because it scapegoated the pilots for the sabotage beyond their control.

  40. The anguish of the relatives is increasing. It must be terrible for them.

    Missing Malaysia Jet: Chaos At News Conference

    Mayhem ensues as two relatives of passengers on the missing plane are jostled and one of them is knocked to the ground.

  41. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/03/18/missing-plane-mh370-computer_n_4984183.html?just_reloaded=1

    “The Flight Management System is used to direct the plane between waypoints on its journey. It is possible, officials said, that it was reprogrammed before the plane took off.”

    Yes…many things ‘possible’.

  42. Bankruptcy of malaysian airlines will cost jobs and reduced wages for pilots.


  43. Kenneth; The Bollyn piece states the Israeli media is speculating that if Israel blames Iran, that it’s an Israeli op. No cite for that I noticed on quick read. Can you supply?

    From that link to this.


  44. Abolghassem Mesbahi is probably an alias, but he sure gets around. Iran is responsible for everything from the Chicago fire to Lockerbie to 9/11. ‘Natch!


    In the one public hearing held on the case, the lawyers revealed the identity of purported former Iranian intelligence official Abolghasem Mesbahi – probably a pseudonym – and described his testimony that he had received a series of “coded messages” from a former colleague in the Iranian government in the late summer and early fall of 2001 warning that a terrorist attack against the United States was being planned, and that it was a plan that had been concocted by Tehran in the late 1980s.

  45. Ben
    19 Mar, 2014 – 2:22 pm

    That is very interesting………….and they try to tell us nothing on MH370 showed on their radar .

  46. Yes Katie. Diego Garica is about 3400 miles. 777 range about 5k. No sats have ground penetration do they?

  47. “I still find it extremely unlikely that the plane landed or crashed on land”

    Didn’t you hear about the passengers’ cell phones, which were still ringing a day after the plane disappeared? This means the phones were on the ground, still functioning and within the range of a base station. And didn’t you hear about the pings from the ACARS engine maintenance system, showing that the engines were still running (and therefore probably still airborne) some 5-7 hours after the last contact?

    “I cannot believe it could evade military detection as it flew over a highly militarized region”

    No such problem if it was flying over the Indian Ocean.

    On the basis of the current evidence, a landing in Diego Garcia is by some way the best call so far. I do wonder why the NSA hasn’t stepped forward to tell us where those phones were. It does, of course, know.

  48. Ben I wouldn’t know but as ‘communications’ are what they do there;

    “The United States Navy operates Naval Support Facility (NSF) Diego Garcia, a large naval ship and submarine support base, military air base, communications and space-tracking facility, and an anchorage for pre-positioned military supplies for regional operations aboard Military Sealift Command ships in the lagoon.”

    I will not be convinced they saw & know nothing.

    At last the media are now taking DG seriously;

    ‘Today it was also revealed that a remote island in the middle of the Indian Ocean with a runway long enough to land a Boeing 777 was programmed into the home flight simulator of the pilot of the missing Malaysia Airlines plane.
    Police are now urgently investigating whether Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah had practised landing at Diego Garcia, an island south of the Maldives occupied by the US navy.’

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2584123/Revealed-Malaysian-Airlines-pilot-high-security-US-base-Diego-Garcia-programmed-homemade-flight-simulator-deleted-data-just-taking-control-missing-plane.html#ixzz2wQIXlMeG

  49. @Trowbridge H. Ford 19 Mar, 2014 – 12:20 pm
    A copy of the passenger manifest. The original pdf from Malaysian Airlines is now “404 Not Found”. A deleted file!Verrrry ominous. Alert the hungry media hounds! ;)


    Has anyone determined where illusionist David Copperfield was at the time? He excelled in making aircraft disappear at night?

  50. Ba'al Zevul (Хождение в народ!)

    19 Mar, 2014 - 3:38 pm

    Putting the woo in the EU; I implore you not to take this one seriously, even if you are Sorcha Faal (who may have invented it)


    Our Mission: Multiplying hypotheses unnecessarily.

  51. As requested mine from the Chevaline thread. Hello to new names on here. (Now I have even more to read!!!)

    Tim V
    19 Mar, 2014 – 3:10 pm
    Thanks for that. It’s a chilling insight into how a little incident (a captain popping off for forty winks) can have disastrous consequences for a plane and all its occupants. More than anything else, the disaster appears to be down to an inexperienced pilot in control in adverse conditions, pulling up the nose and thus stalling the plane and loosing control of the plane. He could not understand why despite pulling back on the joystick the plane was loosing altitude. The more experienced co-pilot didn’t take control in time and didn’t realise what his colleague had been doing. The captain returned too late and fatefully didn’t take over. Just reading the transcript is an exercise in empathy and far more heart-stopping than a disaster movie.
    However I think it is pretty clear we have something quite different in the case of MH370 and the situations are not transferable, the simple reason being that we are told the latter was still being detected over seven hours after it was initially said to have crashed into the sea. As with Chevaline we are forced to make the best of what might be disingenuous information and trying to divine what is true and what is not, but no one seems to have questioned that bit of information so we must assume it is reliable. It means that over 7 hours later it was still flying or powered up on the ground SOMEWHERE. It rules out crash or submersion at least up to that point.
    Where the tragic AF447 story is illuminating is the statement that up until the belated retrieval of the black box and consequent flight deck conversation, the only indicative information available was the automatic engine printout sent back to AF HQ. This was enough to determine the plane had crashed and many of the technical parameters but could not divulge the human responses to them.
    So the inference for MH370 is two fold. Rolls Royce Boeing have all the information they require to recreate the flight plan. Probably every variation to engines and cockpit controls has been relayed including crucially take-off and landing. They must know where it has gone and where it set down.
    The other obvious point is that if the plane had crashed they would know beyond doubt it happened. They would surely have said this if it had happened at least. They are hiding behind “commercial confidentiality” which is questionable enough, but surely would not have done so if their technical feedback had confirmed crash?
    Yet again, apros pos Chevaline, we are in the realms of information known to some being with held to all for reasons only known to the “some”. Where so many lives and families are affected the immorality of that is plain to see. (No pun intended) The wider issue with all these things is who has a right to information and who has a right to withhold it for what reason?

    Tim V
    19 Mar, 2014 – 3:34 pm
    …. and on a related point, the reason underwater sonar detection has not been deployed, or at least trumpeted is easy to deduce. Because they know the aircraft is NOT as the American spokesman wanted us to believe, that it was at the bottom of the Indian Ocean. That statement by the way would infer a terrorist event, for why else would it crash?
    The problem with that is that no rational explanation has been forwarded for it. No terrorist organisation has come forward (again similar to Chevaline) We would for causation be back in “lone maniac” territory or state organised event. Was the US spokesman suggesting either of these?
    As I see it, there are a few alternatives. Maybe you can think of more.
    * If valuable cargo was on board it might be convenient to PRETEND it had crashed as cover for theft.
    * Alternatively if valuable cargo was stolen beforehand, it may be useful to crash the plane and pretend the cargo was lost as may have happened with that UN fight off Newfoundland (possibly)
    * Alternatively if it was necessary to prevent expertise of valuable cargo getting to China, detour or crash might have been considered worthwhile.
    * Alternatively as per the Sorensen/Bollyn theory, the operation was just to obtain an aeroplane that could be used in a terror event and blamed on an opponent.
    Whatever the reason (and there always must be one) given the fact that it didn’t crash as initially suggested, rather rules out 2 and 3 and points to either 1 or 4.

  52. Katie; As I understand it the pilot was not a jihadist, but he was political. X posted from the other thread in case you missed.

    It’s the Daily Mail…so…..photoshpped?

    “An image has emerged of the pilot of the missing Malaysia Airlines jet wearing a T-shirt with a ‘Democracy is Dead’ slogan as it has been revealed he could have hijacked the plane in an anti-government protest.

    Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah, a father-of-three, was said to be a ‘fanatical’ supporter of the country’s opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim – jailed for homosexuality just hours before the jet disappeared.

    It has also been revealed that the pilot’s wife and three children moved out of the family home the day before the plane went missing.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2581817/Doomed-airliner-pilot-political-fanatic-Hours-taking-control-flight-MH370-attended-trial-jailed-opposition-leader-sodomite.html#ixzz2wKZxhury
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  53. Blue

    Penang (WMKP) is 10997 and Butterworth (WMKB) is 8000

    MAS has had terrible trouble over recent years, mainly competition from “budget airlines” operating in that area.

    Depending on MAS “check lists” a fire onboard (due to the amount of fuel onboard and its max landing weight) would require a “fuel dump” to take place.

  54. @Katie – re Diego Garcia. My comment from the other thread. (Would not wish to deprive newcomers of my wit.)

    NR 18 Mar, 2014 – 9:15 pm
    The WH was asked directly if the aircraft was at Diego Garcia. Presidential spokesperson Jay Carney said it was not. Which, translated into common English, means it is.

    For a totally gratuitous dig at the president, “If you like your plane, you can keep your plane.” (For non-US readers, it’s a take off on a slogan for which he’s famous regarding health care.)

  55. NR; ObamACARe.

  56. @Ben 19 Mar, 2014 – 3:45 pm
    “Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah, a father-of-three, was said to be a ‘fanatical’ supporter of the country’s opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim – jailed for homosexuality just hours before the jet disappeared.”

    “It has also been revealed that the pilot’s wife and three children moved out of the family home the day before the plane went missing.”

    But later the DM reported the pilot’s daughter “fled” Australia, like some common criminal, and returned to the same home. Which they remind us is only 15 minutes from the airport. More verrrry ominous facts. Who but a terrorist pilot would live conveniently near the airport?

  57. @Ben 19 Mar, 2014 – 3:54 pm
    “NR; ObamACARe.”

    Good one. A hidden clue.

    Another daft idea. Warren Buffet should offer a billion (US) dollar prize to the first person to find MH370. Another goldrush, with the sea covered in rowboats and the Himalayas in humanity.

  58. “Who but a terrorist pilot would live conveniently near the airport?”

    Indeed. And what pilots enjoy their vocation as much as a terrorist?

    It sure helps craft the narrative.

  59. Why do people continue to imagine that mobile phones work at high altitudes and massive distances from towers?

  60. “Another daft idea. Warren Buffet should offer a billion (US) dollar prize to the first person to find MH370″

    May they live long enough to enjoy spending some of it.

  61. Diego Garcia Passenger Terminal was closed for three days starting 8 March.

    Scroll down about half way, and it’s on the right


  62. Ben, yes as NR has pointed out ,we went through all that on the Al Hilli thread….then we were asked to move here.

    I see nothing wrong with the pilots being political, he went to the trial of the opposition leader who has been jailed for sodomy, everyone wondered about that,but it then turned out the man is related to him through marriage & his son in law.

    I was one shouting for the police to look at that simulator, but have since decided this is not about muslim ,jihadists or what has become the norm for terrorism.

    I strongly suspect this is a western intelligence op, but somewhere along the line it hasn’t quite worked out for them,people now demand answers more than they did.
    I hope I am right & that the plane is ‘not’ being stored for a terrorist plot, that thought is too awful to contemplate.
    The best that can come out of this crime is that security systems now get tightened in that part of the world & the transponder cannot be turned off inflight !

  63. Dre; Picked up on the Freescale 20? Freescale hit a 52 week high on March 7th

    What a coinky dinky.

  64. Katie; Diego Garcia could be a red herring. That flight plan on the simulator could have been placed by others. It would be nice to get something concrete going. I suspect someone has seen something…….even in the dark.


  65. It could well be Ben, but I put a lot of weight behind the Maldive sightings.

    I couldn’t get to the FB page, dicky connection here in the country, but,I love this on the DG military website;
    ‘Reminder To All Space-A Travers: Per DoD 4515.13-R, “C6.1.9. Conditions of Travel…….. There is no guaranteed space for any traveler.
    The Department of Defense is not obligated to continue an individual’s travel or return him or her to point of origin, or any other point.”


  66. Katie;

    That’s ‘Deadhead’ travel. The commercial airliners do it for employees, as space is available.

    I have searched for any possible connection to the heroin deaths of two former SEALS who were found aboard Maersk Alabama. Many contractors work as security against pirates. Supposedly (unconfirmed) they had just delivered a mysterious package. The timeline doesn’t jibe.

  67. Honey trap?

    “Kennedy, distinctive by his muscled physique and bald head, was said to be flirting with female croupiers and bar servers. After four hours in the casino they were asked to leave at 3am when it was time to close.

    CCTV footage from nearby restaurants caught them wandering off down an alleyway with the two women.

    The men were logged back on the ship at 6am with police now trying to find out where they went for the three hours before their return.
    It is not uncommon for former soldiers turned contractors to indulge in the shady temptations on offer in some of the most dangerous places abroad – away from the support and love of their families.

    But to those who knew Kennedy, he didn’t fit this cliche.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2575749/Whats-chances-two-Navy-SEALs-turning-dead-room-Family-friends-demand-US-investigation-mystery-hookers-heroin-deaths-ship-famous-Captain-Philips.html#ixzz2wQr2ugbS
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  68. There’s something seriously wrong when data has to be protected.

    ‘Malaysian officials have confirmed they have received ‘some radar data’ from other countries about the missing Flight MH370 today – but claimed they were ‘not at liberty’ to release the information.
    Speaking at a press conference this afternoon, acting Transport Minister Hishammuddin Hussein said Malaysia was continuing to co-ordinate the search for the missing Boeing 777-200ER.

    Confirming other countries were to take the lead on the search in other areas, he added:
    ‘I can confirm that we have received some radar data, but we are not at liberty to release information from other countries.’

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2584399/Malaysia-confirms-new-radar-data-missing-plane-flying-country-wont-say-security-reasons.html#ixzz2wQtKX0qM

  69. Katie

    There are specific rules about releasing “data” prior to an investigation.
    That’s just the way it is.

    Is it “dodgy” ? I don’t know. But it is the way things are done.
    The airlines “oblige” because it will be them that will be investigated in the end.

    However, from what I can tell, a satellite “received” a “ping” from the aircraft several hours into it’s “unknown” flight.

    What was that “ping”.
    Was that transmission “engine data” ?

  70. Thanks James.

    Apparently a ‘ping’ is similar to a hand shake just to let you know the plane is ‘alive’ !.
    It bounces off a beacon as long as a plane is powered up…that’s in flight or on the ground under auxiliary power.
    This is why it’s a red herring saying the plane was flying for X hours, they simply do not know if it actually was airborne or not.

  71. Malaysia confirms it has new radar data on missing plane flying over another country (but won’t say where for security reasons)


  72. It doesn’t quite work like that…. or that satellite will be picking up lots of “hiya’s” from all the traffic. That “data” wouldn’t make any sense.

    All systems work at passing data.
    Either by VHF over land or by satellites over the sea.
    Even IFF (Id Friend or Foe) is “data”.

    That satellite has to “ask” whatever system it is interrogating and then data is sent. Unless the data is “trying to send” and then “finds” the satellite it can transmit to.

  73. I suspect the ‘highly unusual suspension’ is for getting caught.

    “The suspension, which many have called “highly unusual,” follows the disturbing report of an illegal nuclear warhead transfer to South Carolina from Dyess Air Force Base in Texas, a military installation under the Strategic Air Command. That same day, Senator Lindsay Graham strangely announced that South Carolina would likely be subject to a nuclear attack if the United States did not immediately intervene militarily in Syria, all occurring at the moment of Giardina’s suspension.”

    Read more: http://www.storyleak.com/u-s-nuke-commander-suspended-alleged-gambling-investigation/#ixzz2wR80Wam8

  74. How would one promulgate another 9/11 that would trump all other ‘terrorist’ acts, yet leave NO evidence except maybe the origin of the nuke, which might conveniently have a Russkie signature?

  75. The “body in the bag” spy death in London looked like it was one party – maybe a criminal enterprise or another country’s spy agency – sending a message to MI6: Look What We Can Do.

    I wonder whether this is a spy agency – like the CIA – sending a message to another party – China’s government – saying: Look What We Can Do. We can make a plane with your citizens on it – including semiconductor engineers – disappear.

  76. Well there you are James, I was repeating what the guy on TV told us…….

    It’s getting hard to believe anything they say .

    I had a similar thought earlier today.
    What if it was an experiment to test what ‘could’ be done with a 777 by remote ,with all those techie geeks on board it’s possible, maybe not probable,but then they couldn’t get it back on track ?

  77. Ibrahim statements….http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/18/world/asia/malaysia-flight-anwar-pilot/

    “He alleged that the speculation had only gained traction as a result of the government trying to deflect attention from its “incompetent” handling of the crisis.

    “I think there’s a desperation by the government of the ruling leadership over the manner they managed the whole crisis. Clearly incompetent, contradictory statements, poor management of the crisis,” he said.”

    Incompetent handlers is an opportunity for other competencies.

  78. James; What of infrared satellites? I hesitate to suggest a conspiracy of silence amongst so many, but it is a question no media outlet I know of is pursuing.

  79. Katie

    Basically…. you just can’t “pick up” one ping.
    It has to be a series over a period of time.

    And that “ping” is “data”.

    So…. ping, ping, ping, ping.
    OR data, data, data, data !

    If that “data” is from the engines (or the “second channel”) then you can see (and I expect that it can be seen) what the aircraft is doing.

    By “what it is doing” I mean if the engines are set to cruise, working harder than normal, in approach, climbing etc etc etc.

    So they “know” what the aircraft was doing….they just don’t know where it was doing it !

  80. I find it hard to believe no data retention on satellite array. Heat signatures include the exhaust from a Boeing Rolls-Royce I would think.

    “US spy satellites detected no sign of a mid-air explosion when a Malaysian airliner lost contact with air traffic controllers, American officials said Wednesday.”

    Read more: MISSING MH370: US satellites found no blast – Latest – New Straits Times http://www.nst.com.my/latest/font-color-red-missing-mh370-font-us-satellites-found-no-blast-1.510492#ixzz2wRIoN9my

  81. “This is why it’s a red herring saying the plane was flying for X hours, they simply do not know if it actually was airborne or not”

    True, but that doesn’t make it a red herring. It tells us that the plane had not crashed, which is very significant.

  82. Ben

    My bet ? They have “data”.

    So “onboard fire” is “unlikely”. It was still flying.

    Hypoxia ? It is still possibility.
    And so is “pilot suicide” and also “hijack”.

  83. @James
    Good point about ACARS using VHF radio when in range of land and where the area is so equipped. It’s something MSM fails to mention.

    There was a reference to extending radio coverage in that area, especially Thailand, though don’t remember what year. It may be that radio coverage is currently only available near airports.

    Something else that’s not mentioned is there’s an intermediate company between the airline and the satellite provider.

    The SITA system is designed so that airlines set, and can change, the routing decisions — radio vs satellite — based on data rate and quantity of data as a trade-off against cost. Satellite charges are down to where it’s the equivalent to international phone roaming costs, but that’s still considerable for a fleet.

    Some airlines opt to hold non-critical data and dump it upon arrival at the gate via wifi Internet.

    Immarsat issued a press release saying Malaysian Airlines subscribe to their “Classic” service, which I take to mean their oldest service using 3 Geo-synchonus satellites providing coverage from 80 degrees north and south latitudes. Immarsat offer many other types of service, including zoned by area or country — more powerful and permitting smaller, notebook sized devices and higher data rates.

    Airlines flying polar routes use the Irridium satellite service.

    No one has said who pays for the Rolls Royce and Boeing ACARS service. Is that part of the airlines’ subscription or do those companies subscribe separately and build the cost into the price of the product?


  84. NR

    Basically….yes !

    With an engine manufacturer it is part of the “package” depending on what package you buy.

    ACARS also works the same.You buy a package. It can transmit more frequently than 30 mins. That is likely the longest setting there is.

    With ACARS (and other comms of such) you have two channels.
    If one fails, it transfers over to the second.
    You cannot fly with one channel only (except a ferry flight to maintenance base).

    In the main (over land) you transmit with VHF.
    Over sea you transmit via satellite.

    Hence ACARS transmitting over channel “one” did not fail.
    It would have “failed” if “both” channels did not transmit OR was “shut down”.

  85. Juan, yes good point & a valid one.

    My point was that at first when they talked about these ‘pings’ they took it for granted the plane was in the air for four [?] hours, only when we sleuths asked if the ‘pings’ could continue if the aircraft had landed.

  86. Katie….

    Read what you wrote. You say “pings”. Plural !
    They say “ping”.

    I believe what you wrote (pings) is correct. Not one. More than one.

  87. Sorry , the last line got cut.

    ‘So,only when we sleuths asked if the ‘pings’ could continue if the aircraft had landed…did it become clear that they could & that the plane may not have flown very far at all.’

  88. No James, there were 5 pings if I remember rightly. .

    ‘Malaysian authorities believe they have several “pings” from the airliner’s service data system, known as ACARS, transmitted to satellites in the four to five hours after the last transponder signal, suggesting the plane flew to the Indian Ocean, a senior U.S. official told CNN.’


  89. More on ‘pings’.

    “It’s not clear what the indication was, but senior administration officials told ABC News the missing Malaysian flight continued to “ping” a satellite on an hourly basis after it lost contact with radar. The Boeing 777 jetliners are equipped with what is called the Airplane Health Management system in which they ping a satellite every hour. The number of pings would indicate how long the plane stayed aloft.’


  90. James; The ascent to 45k “coffin corner’ (was it revised to 43?) and the rapid descent…..G-forces extant would disable crew, no?

  91. Katie

    Then that indicates the Malaysians authorities cannot be trusted at all !

    As in…
    They must have spoken to the US authorities and confirmed that flight data was transmitting (which I suspect to be true) or the US “own” the satellite !

    BUT the US could not “suggest” where it flew to.
    That would be impossible given that the “transponder was turned off”.
    Unless they have a primary radar track ? Or just guessing ? Or “know” ?

    From all of this, we can say that the a/c was “health” at that time.
    And I suspect “flying”.

  92. Ben

    I fly higher ! But in a different a/c.

    I have not got a clue why he went that high.
    Thinner air maybe, decrease your burn rate ?
    Hypoxia fuelled climb ?
    Systems failure ?
    I have no idea.

    Oddly they had a track !

    What they don’t say is, primary radar does have “calcs”.
    It has “interceptions calcs”. Even without a correct transponder “ping” or a correct IFF, you can track an intercept. That is after all the whole point.

  93. ” ACARS will be superseded by the Aeronautical Telecommunications Network (ATN) protocol for Air Traffic Control communications and by the Internet Protocol for airline communications.”


    ATN supercedes ACARS/FANS when?


    “In the early 1990s, the Boeing company announced a first generation FANS product known as FANS-1. This was based on the early ICAO technical work for automatic dependent surveillance (ADS) and controller–pilot data link communications (CPDLC), and implemented as a software package on the flight management computer of the Boeing 747-400. It used existing satellite based ACARS communications (Inmarsat Data-2 service) and was targeted at operations in the South Pacific Oceanic region. The deployment of FANS-1 was originally justified by improving route choice and thereby reducing fuel burn.

    The datalink control and display unit (DCDU) on an Airbus A330, the pilot interface for sending and receiving CPDLC messages.
    A similar product (FANS-A) was later developed by Airbus for the A340 and A330. Boeing also extended the range of aircraft supported to include the Boeing 777 and 767. Together, the two products are collectively known as FANS-1/A. The main industry standards describing the operation of the FANS-1/A products are ARINC 622 and EUROCAE ED-100/RTCA DO-258. Both the new Airbus A380 and Boeing 787 have FANS-1/A capability”

  94. James; It may have been fiction but I remember a movie where the pilot had to go into a steep dive to put out engine fire. Can’t remember the name of the WWII movie (B-17). But he was already at 35k, so like you say, if he was seeking thinner air.

  95. P.S.


    When it comes to “Carriers”…they want to avoid “legals” as much as possible.
    Do I trust them !!!!!

    Not a chance !

  96. Also; Eliminating cockpit chaos, how hard is it to send out a MAYDAY !

  97. James, what do you think of them saying the plane dropped to 5,000ft to avoid radar detection, not only does that put a strain on the aircraft but surely that’s a mountainous region & therefore highly dangerous.

    As Pakistan,India,Bangladesh all said [ we are told] they didn’t have any sign on their radar, it cannot be true.

    So more questions of where could they fly to at the height of 5,000ft, over the sea,which means surely they are searching in the wrong direction ?

  98. Aha ! It was BASED on a true story…Memphis Belle. No accounting for details.

  99. Ben

    No need to do that these days ! (Smiley face button).

    Plus, if there was an dual shut down, your air ram will pop out.
    Enough for “pan pan pan”.

    Job done. Position given.

  100. Hey james; If you want a smiley face…. colon/right Parentheses :)

  101. Ben

    Check out the South African 747 with a fire onboard (not engine).
    That will surprise you !

    But engine fires are not a problem. You get “paid” then.


    5000 over sea, that’s “okay”.
    5000 “in the mountains”…in an airline ! Scary !

  102. Ben
    Me like :)

  103. Ben
    19 Mar, 2014 – 7:32 pm by the same token it means they were monitoring the relevant area. It just depends on what the satellite is set up for. Just hot spots or other indicators as well. Of course that’s an area SSST was specialist in. In practice we know US strategic thinker have moved their focus of interest to the Indian Ocean. Obama confirmed it. All to do with perceived increased military threat from China added to sabre rattling over the disputed rock outcrops with the Japanese. Throw in N.Korea, an errant Chinese dependant, both with nuclear capability and I suppose you can see why. So China has deployed eleven satellites in the search it is said. Now how does that work when they are in fixed orbit and pre-programmed? And if China has 11 that can search, how many have the Americans (leaving aside the Europeans, Russians and others) got. I don’t doubt for one moment they have pictures of the passengers of MH370 waving out the windows. Nor have the naval assets been discussed. Just the Americans have the third (four carrier based strike groups) and seventh (22 vessels) fleets there, each vessel with huge anti-aircraft radar capability that augments land based facilities. “We have no idea what happened to the plane” MUST be a lie. If that little detail is unreliable I certainly wouldn’t trust any story that seeks either directly or by inference to implicate the flight crew.

  104. Tim;

    ” Now how does that work when they are in fixed orbit and pre-programmed?”

    My understanding is that they can be diverted from the program, but it is very expensive.

    Not that MILSPEC isn’t a synonym for budget overkill, and thrice redundant back-up.

  105. Techno: “I wonder whether this is a spy agency – like the CIA – sending a message to another party – China’s government – saying: Look What We Can Do. We can make a plane with your citizens on it – including semiconductor engineers – disappear”.

    If you get the message, so do the Chinese, one would assume. problem is even the CIA would not resort to doing away with this many people of so many nationalities, just to “prove the point”. Especially a point that can be proven with far less loss of life.

    OTOH, it is possible that there was some kind of a gambit to take over the plane but it failed. Somehow, I don’t think this is likely at this time. The technology is not there yet, especially when it comes to the interfaces with airplane hardware. Not that a cyber attack could not do some damage and perhaps that is what happened.

    I just don’t think that flying a boeing remotely is on the same level as flying a drone. The electronic capabilities may be there, but the civilian airplanes are not equipped as of yet for remote piloting to be practical. We’ll know such capability has been reached when we hear of remote piloting of certain military craft that are equipped to carry people.

  106. Fly-by-wire is an onboard function, as I’ve seen from published works. Remote control is outside the present realm but I would expect our best and brightest recruits could be ahead of the learning curve. Orientation, especially at night, makes flying remote control model planes difficult, but not impossible.

  107. @Tim @Ben
    The only satellites in fixed orbit are the Geo-synchronous ones, at an altitude of 35,786 kilometres (22,236 mi) above the Earth’s equator. They’re generally used for communications, satellite TV, etc.

    Surveillance and spy satellites are at much lower orbits, approx. 150 miles as I recall, with various orientations — mostly polar — and periods, so they view the earth as a series of strips, roughly every one-and-half hours apart.

    Some of the spy satellites can be repositioned to concentrate on areas of interest.

  108. http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/international/2014-03-18/malaysia-airlines-plane-area-in-mh370-search-now-larger-than-australia/1281410

    “Investigators believe it was diverted by someone with deep knowledge of the Boeing 777-200ER and commercial navigation…”

    No cite, and I would like to know who those are.

    How long a list of those with deep knowledge? Start interviewing them.

  109. NR;

    Early warning; heat signature…day or night.


    (DSP). The Defense Support Program is a strategic surveillance and early warning satellite system with an infrared capability to detect long-range ballistic missile launches, and has been operational for over 30 years.:

  110. From the 1st comment in Guardian on the execrable and hypocritical environmentalism, Craig.

    “Whats the strategic value?
    What’s been parked on there in the interim?
    Whats halfway being parked on there but its not finished yet?
    Is anyone else (apart from dark skinned islanders who presumably don’t count) going to move in, who they don’t want to move in, once they fuck off?
    The answers there somewhere.”

    Yes. The answer is always and perpetually somewhere.

  111. The Sultan of Brunei is one of the world’s richest men and he regularly parks his jumbo at Heathrow to hob-nob with the Queen. Brunei is completely dependent on the oil elite to extract his oil, i.e. UKUSKoreaIraq petroglobals , and completely dependent on the global zio-mafia to protect his gotten gains.

    If I was an Al Qaida/USUKIS/NWO tycoon/jihadi terrierist looking for a bit of ready dosh or regime change, I’d be landing my hostages at Brunei with a few marines and waiting for a very big bank draft before flying them to their chosen destinations.

    What is one supposed to do when the royal corgis raise their royal legs against the royal Brunei handbag? Smile sweetly and send to Harrods for another one.

  112. “What if it was an experiment to test what ‘could’ be done with a 777 by remote ,with all those techie geeks on board it’s possible, maybe not probable,but then they couldn’t get it back on track ?”

    Too complicated. It’s much simpler than that.

    The CIA would just offer the pilots more money than they could possibly imagine if they followed the instructions they were given to the letter and keep their mouths shut.

    The CIA just gets people to do what they want by offering to pay them for their cooperation and silence. It’s how it’s always worked.

  113. “problem is even the CIA would not resort to doing away with this many people of so many nationalities, just to “prove the point””

    I’m not so sure. This is the agency that engineered a successful coup in Iran in the 1950s, and tried to overthrow Castro in the 1960s. And they’re the ones we know about.

    If China is the next great superpower, it would be a grave threat to the dominance of the United States. There really is no precedence for this in the modern era.

    “I just don’t think that flying a boeing remotely is on the same level as flying a drone.”

    Why do people insist in this idea of “flying remotely”? You just buy the pilots off. Offer them a big annual income for the rest of their lives if they do what they’re told on one occasion, disappear to a new place with a new identity and keep their mouths shut. It has always been done this way.

    On the other hand, it could have just crashed.

  114. This from the Telegraph:

    “16.52 The pilots of the vanished Malaysian Airlines fight were not hijackers and are likely to have died trying to save the aircraft from an onboard fire, an expert in the Lockerbie trial has said.

    Billie Vincent, the former head of security at the Federal Aviation Authority (FAA), said he believed MH370 diverted off course in a desperate bid to reach safe harbour as the cabin filled with smoked.

    “As opposed to being hijackers, the crew were heroically trying to save the airplane, themselves and the passengers when this catastrophe hit,” he told The Telegraph.

    Mr Vincent was a key witness in the civil trial that followed the 1988 Lockerbie bombing, where families successfully sued Pan Am for $500 million in compensation.

    The former air traffic controller said he believed MH370 had suffered a “catastrophic event” that filled the cabin with smoke or noxious fumes shortly after the pilots made final contact with ground control at 1.19am on March 8.

    Mr Vincent, who helped Malaysia install security procedures at Kuala Lumpur airport, said smoke could have been caused by an electrical fire, hazardous materials in the cargo hold or a small bomb that failed to destroy the aircraft.”

    Pure speculation – what if the aircraft was headed on a course to DG and seen as hostile incoming?

  115. Craig
    20 Mar, 2014 – 12:55 am

    Thanks for that, I agree with you all you say, whole heartedly.
    I heard one EX-islander speaking only yesterday, he was explaining what happened & how he now lives in poverty.
    Utterly shameful ,particularly with all the PC hypocrisy we have to obey nowadays .

    So I hear a large piece of debris has shown up off the Australian coast this morning, we all wait with bated breath …………………

  116. “You just buy the pilots off. Offer them a big annual income for the rest of their lives if they do what they’re told on one occasion, disappear to a new place with a new identity and keep their mouths shut.”

    I would add to what I said earlier that as far as I can remember it was reported that the older pilot’s family had moved out of the family home a few days before the incident, which would support this, they were moving to their new location to start their new life.

  117. So an experienced pilot forgot to ‘aviate,navigate & communicate’.

    Today is day13,the day after an embarrassing handling of a mothers grief by the Malaysians yesterday.

    Apparently the Aussies have known about this debris for days,since Monday ……… but have only today scrambled the jets, what were they waiting for ?

  118. Mocyn69

    I’d be very wary of what an “expert involved in the Lockerbie investigation” has got to say.

    Firstly I am not convinced that the baggage “remained” onboard” the 747, but was placed onboard when the 747 landed at Heathrow. And from that, I doubt Libyan involvement in the Lockerbie bombing at all.

    Anyway….lets see what Australia turns up when it gets “eyes on” this debris that has been seen by satellite.

    This seems “unusual” IF the aircraft was “flying at low level”.
    The fuel burn rate of an aircraft flying at low level is massively increased and compared to an aircraft flying at cruise altitude, the distanced travelled is therefore significantly reduced.

    Lets wait and see.

  119. Missing Plane: ‘Objects May Be MH370 Debris’

    Two large objects spotted in the south Indian Ocean could be debris from the missing Malaysia Airlines plane, authorities say.


    I hope this latest news is not about Abbott wanting some publicity.

  120. If this is true then the australian defense will have to explane about why the money of the australian taxpayer had been wasted. That would stink enormously ….


    The JORN is so sensitive it is able to track planes as small as a Cessna 172 taking off and landing in East Timor 2600 km away. 

  121. We all sound [justifiably] sceptical about this find.

    As strong as the wings will be on a 777, I’m wondering how a 24 metre object can stand the impact of hitting the sea & not break in two ?

  122. I repeat:

    The JORN is so sensitive it is able to track planes as small as a Cessna 172 taking off and landing in East Timor 2600 km away. 

    They are searching in an area just 2230 km away from their west coast.

    What is that telling us?
    Was the australian RFAA on March-vacation, too, just like their malaysian and their indonesian airforce buddies?

  123. Apparently the Aussies have known about this debris for days,since Monday ……… but have only today scrambled the jets, what were they waiting for ?

    Better pictures, perhaps. See-

    Bit surprised that US and Russian military surveillance spaceware hasn’t come up with anything – but again, perhaps it has.

  124. @Katie
    I tried to find info on the Flight Data Recorder, and other emergency locaters. Like everything else, it’s throughly confusing with various models and changes over the years. Couldn’t determine what’s fitted on a 777.

    The relevant part is the pinger, which is external to the FDR and Cockpit Voice Recorder, collectively called Accident Data Recorders, and some new designs combine both functions in the same box. Lockheed has a patent on one that deploys when the plane hits water and has a flotation device. Don’t know if these are in use.

    Specs on the pinger: Maximum detection range
    A 37.5kHz (160.5dB re 1μPa) pinger can be detectable 1-2km from the surface in normal conditions and 4-5km in good conditions. A 37.5kHz (180dB re 1μPa) transponder pinger can be detected 4-5km n normal conditions and 6-7km in good conditions. Transponder 10kHz (180dB re 1μPa) range is 7-9km in normal condition and 17-22km in good conditions.

    So there are several types with two loudnesses and two frequencies. One expert on TV claimed a range of 5-10 miles and if the plane was deep you’d need to be above it to find it. Another expert said detection was difficult at depth, depending on marine thermal layers and underwater terrain — valleys and mountains. A third expert, who participated in recovery of the Air France 447 crash said that after finding the wreck two years after the accident with submersibles, they reviewed original search efforts and found they were directly above without detecting pings.

    Aircraft also have Emergency Locater Transmitters (1 or 2?) on the top surface of the plane, that transmit to satellite. I though these detached automatically when the plane hits water. Apparently they do not. Interestingly a 787 had a fire in the space above the cabin ceiling set off by lithium batteries in the ELT.

    For crashes at sea the ELTs are on each life raft and are activated by salt water. The emergency slides also serve as life rafts. For an emergency landing on land, survivors are told to find a life raft and pee on the ELT to provide salt water to activate it. I did not know that.

  125. Yes BB, I understand what you’re getting at, did you know ‘coincidently’ an American ship is in the area of this debris too ?

    I missed what it was, but I suspect it will be the US Navy !

  126. Forget this “find”. It is rubbish, and found south of Austarlia. What the hell where the plane doing there. En route to the Antarctic maybe?

  127. NR.

    Thanks for that, all very interesting.

    It does make sense for a black box to have a liferaft/airbag to inflate on impact,just like the one we used to carry on our own boat, add that to an automated satellite alarm sent to computers & what a lot of time & possibly lives it would saved.
    So how come both AF & this one seem to have neither ?

    I shall remember the tip about urinating on an ELT should the need ever arise. ;-)

  128. Just a strange coincidence, but the 1985 US hijacking of a civilian passenger airplane had been organised by “Robert Bubba Brodsky”.
    Nikolai Brodsky was on board of MH370 ….

    Not for the first time in history the US would have hijacked a civilian passenger airplane:


    In the night between Oct. 10 and 11, 1985 a scarcely known mission took place in the skies above the Mediterranean Sea.That night, several combat planes belonging to the Carrier Air Wing 17 (CVW-17) lauched from USS Saratoga (CV-60) to intercept the Egyptair Boeing 737 which was carrying the terrorists who had hijacked the Achille Lauro liner off Egypt.On October 7, 1985, four PLF militants men had hijacked the cruise ship. Holding the passengers and crew hostage, they directed the vessel to sail to Tartus, Syria, and demanded the release of 50 Palestinians then in Israeli prisons.After two days of negotiations (and the killing ofLeon Klinghoffer, a Jewish retired businessman who was in a wheelchair) the terrorists agreed to abandon the ship in exchange for safe conduct and were flown towards Tunisia aboard an Egyptian commercial airliner.On Oct. 10, while the Boeing 737 was taking off from Cairo, the “Super Sara” catapulted four F-14A (two belonging to VF-74 Be-Devilers and two belonging to VF-103 Sluggers), one E-2C (belonging to VAW-125 Tiger Tails), two KA-6D (belonging to VA-85 Black Falcons) and one EA-6B (belonging to VAQ-137 Rooks)  that had the task to intercep the airliner which transported the Achille Lauro hijackers.Another E-2C, three more F-14s and two electronic intelligence aircrafts (one EA-3B and one RC-135) took part in the mission planned by the CAG (Commander Air Group) of the CVW-17, Robert “Bubba” Brodzky.The mission was planned to be a night, lights out interception. The F-14s were vectored to the Boeing 737 by the E-2C and one VF-103’s Tomcat, exactly the BuNo 160904 side number 205, approaching the 737 from rear and below, was able to made the positive identification getting very close to airliner (about fifteen feet!!) to read its registration.The E-2C vectored five more Tomcats (even though some sources say that there were only three) to join the lights out formation just above the island of Crete. From that moment on, each communication with the Egyptian Boeing was done by the E-2C which used a VHF frequency to transmit the order to divert to Sigonella, in Italy.Only when the liner refused to comply with the order to divert, the E-2C ordered “LIGHTS ON, NOW!” that lit up all the F-14s surrounding the Boeing 737. The Hawkeye told to airliner crew that in one way or another they had to reach Sigonella and the 737 had to proceed to the airbase in Sicily.Once on the ground, the Tomcats closed the airspace overhead for all incoming aircraft, except two USAF C-141 cargos which were carrying Navy SEALs team. As the American forces surrounded the Boeing , they were surrounded by the Italian military security (belonging to the Air Force and Carabinieri – the Military Police) forces that claimed Italian territorial rights over the base.The diplomatic crisis was resolved after five hours of negotiations. The hijackers were left to the Italians that had to bring them to Rome with a special flight whereas the other passengers on the plane (including the hijackers’ leader, Muhammad Zaidan) were allowed to continue on to their destination, despite protests by the United States.At around 22.00 local time, on Oct. 11, the Egyptair B737 took off from Sigonella to Rome Ciampino airport. The special flight got a special escort by two F-104S Starfighter of the 36° Stormo (Wing) from Gioia del Colle, later joined by two additional F-104s from Grazzanise airbase.The 737 with its escort flight were later joined by some unknown aircraft, most probably U.S. F-14s, that approached the F-104s from behind. Although what happened next has never been fully disclosed, a sort of dogfight is believed to have taken place in the Tyrrhenian Sea while an EA-6B was jamming Italian radars.As the formation approached Rome, the USN fighters turned back.Even thought the events influenced the US-Italian diplomatic relations very negatively for quite some time, most probably, the night intercept was, until then, the most complex aerial anti-terrorist mission ever planned.The Be-Devilers of VF-74 were disbanded on 28 april 1994 after they spent their last days as Adversary Squadron simulating aircrafts as MiG-29, MiG-31 and SU-27. Instead in the 1995 the Sluggers of VF-103  taking the skull and bones  left by the disbanded VF-84 and changed their name into Jolly Rogers.Dario Leone for The Aviationist.com(image)Image credit: U.S. Navy

  129. “Australian security expert Neil Fergus says that if the two objects found ARE from flight MH370, it must have been flown there deliberately”


  130. Now there’s a sharp fella. I thought it was en route to Antarctica on its own

  131. Looks like this second thread on the Malaysia crash will end up like the second one on the unsolved Lake Annecy murders – nowhere.

  132. In 1985 (read the Egypt air hijacking by the US army), the pilot’s conversation and all radar contact with Egypt Air had been jammed by US military planes so that Egypt air had no way to communicate. Even the italian radar had been jammed.
    If the pilot of egypt air wouldnt have followed their instructions then they would have shot him down.

    I remember the “mumbling” heard by the JAL pilot in case of MH370.
    That could have been a result of jamming. Also the transponder and the malaysian radar might have been jammed. Perhaps nobody turned off the transponder. Perhaps they trird totalk to aircontrol. Perhaps they tried to send mayday.
    Everything had been jammed.
    Perhaps then the pilot tried to show them that he was in trouble by climbing into an invalid height. Unfortunately they couldnt see this unsual flight maneuvre at air control screens as he got jammed.

    That is my theory.

    They had done that already at least once before. We have proof.

    Any opinions?

  133. If the debris is confirmed as that of the missing plane (my guess is that it will be) then I’ll be interested to see what narrative we are given. If we are told that the pilot simply flew the plane to that location and crashed it then the mystery deepens. That’s because it doesn’t explain the ringing cell-phones, which must have been on land and within range of a base station.

    The debris was not picked up by Australian satellites until last Sunday, over a week after the disappearance. That gives plenty of time for the plane to be hijacked, flown to Diego Garcia, personnel and cargo removed and the plane then flown remotely to current location and ditched, maybe with the dead bodies on board. Just a thought.

  134. Marlin, I don’t know what you think, but I’m wondering if we haven’t got shades of Chevaline “counter intelligence” here? Is it possible the British essentially “have put the spoke in” an Americano/Israel plan? I know it sounds a bit far-fetched so what do I base it on?

    Well really just circumstantially on the way the “story” had to change with staged revelations. I’m suggesting that when the initial story that the plane had probably ditched as it approached Vietnam based on loss of communication and radar, the fact that it had turned West must already have been known not only from this but from the “military” radar as well. Malaysia Airlines reported the disappearance nearly five hours later, an hour after the plane was due to land in Beijing.

    Everyone has assumed this was Malaysian military radar but if so why wasn’t it included in the early announcements. It could have been from foreign owned military radar information brought in subsequently to defeat the initial story line.

    Then the real reason I got going on this tack was the statement in a Times story at least (other outlets may have said the same) that the satellite that really put a nail in the crash hypothesis, with the news that a full seven plus hours after the disappearance (initially “5 hrs”) it was still registering a “ping” from the plane, was British owned “Inmarsat”.

    ” Inmarsat plc is the leading provider of global mobile satellite communications services. Since 1979, Inmarsat has been providing reliable voice and high-speed data communications to governments, enterprises and other organizations, with a range of services that can be used on land, at sea or in the air. Inmarsat employs around 1,600 staff in more than 60 locations around the world, with a presence in the major ports and centres of commerce on every continent. Inmarsat is listed on the London Stock Exchange (LSE:ISAT.L).” http://www.inmarsat.com/news/inmarsat-statement-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370/

    “As well as merchant shipping, our customers include governments, airlines, the broadcast media, the oil and gas industry, mining, construction, and humanitarian aid agencies – to name just a few.

    They connect to our fleet of 10 satellites using a range of equipment, including global handheld satellite phones and notebook-size broadband internet devices, as well as specialist terminals and antennas fitted to ships, aircraft and road vehicles.”

    It has four generations of satellite, the first a BAE collaboration; the second with Lookheed Martin/Marconi; not sure about the third though it is “European”; the fourth seems to have been built by Boeing.

    Incidentally: “20 March 2014
    Retired United States Air Force General to join Inmarsat Board
    General C. Robert Kehler will bring huge breadth of knowledge to non-executive director role.”

    “It has not stated which satellites were involved. Inmarsat operates about 10 geostationary satellites through which it handles satcom datalink transmissions including those from the aeronautical sector.” http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/inmarsat-confirms-automated-signals-from-mh370-397034/

    “Metro” had this a day ago: “The last ‘ping’ signal from the aircraft was detected by a satellite in an area near a US naval base on Diego Garcia and Maldives.

    HaveeruOnline has also quoted a local aviation expert as saying the plane spotted above Maldives is ‘likely’ to be missing MH370 as instances of any aircraft flying over the island at the reported time was rare.

    A total of 26 countries are helping to search for the missing plane – but Maldives is not one of them.” http://metro.co.uk/2014/03/18/flight-mh370-residents-on-remote-island-in-maldives-saw-jet-matching-missing-malaysia-airlines-planes-description-4640688/

    So it would appear that although very little specific information has been made available to the public, it was British owned Inmarsat with undoubted very strong links to British military and intelligence, that let it be known that crucially the plane had not ditched at least five hours after it had been supposed to.

    If the plan was to “disappear” the plane in a faked sea crash, it appears to have been a British company that ruined it!

  135. Just to add a point to “Malaysia Airlines reported the disappearance nearly five hours later, an hour after the plane was due to land in Beijing.” “or somewhere else!”

    In other words that time delay rather co-incidentally corresponds to Inmarsat confirmation that it was still “pinging” and the time it could have landed elsewhere (Diego Garcia seems to be a favourite) before intensive search was initiated.

    There must be satellite images available to nation states (incidentally China it is said now have 21 tasked!) of those runways and what’s on ‘em.

    One final point: of the 18 ships said to be deployed in the search only one US vessel apparently and similarly negligible numbers of US aircraft despite having massive 7th fleet somewhere in the vicinity. Isn’t this rather strange given the fact that the US is on a charm offensive in the region?

  136. Wall Street Journal

    Critical Data Was Delayed in Flight Search

    Four days went by before officials acted on satellite data showing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 flew for several hours away from the area being covered by a massive international search—a delay from which investigators are still working to recover.


  137. There is a report that before the doomed flight, MH370 delivered “radar equipment” to Kuala Lumpur! Does anyone know what the plane was doing, countries/cargoes etc prior to the missing flight. Have the authorities ever released details of the cargo manifest on its way to Beijing? We know there were personnel on board the US might not have wanted to get there but how about the cargo bay also?

    I agree that it’s a bit unlikely the US would intentionally crash the plane but it might hi-jack it to prevent vital stuff getting into the hands of an enemy. It was very good at hi-jacking people. It’s not something it could readily admit to however. Would allies or enemies blow the gaff? If undertaken it’s a very desperate and high risk strategy to adopt, especially in the age of the uncontrollable internet.

  138. Shades of 9/11?

    19 Mar, 2014 – 5:00 pm


    “Just follow the money”?

  139. As respects share price of Freescale Semi Conductor Ltd that in three months to March 2014 increased over 60%, is the fact that despite loosing twenty of its expert staff bound for China, the share price hasn’t, it would appear, fallen back as one might have expected. Why is that now I’m wondering. MH370 can’t be considered a serious set back at least.

  140. @Tim V
    20 Mar, 2014 – 2:02 pm

    This for the Telegraph:

    “11.25 The satellite pictures were taken four days ago, according to the date stamp on them, but there was still confusion from the Malaysian authorities this morning about when exactly they were taken.”

    So now we’ve also got date-stamped photos, but confusion about when they were actually taken!

    FFS everybody .. make sure your date stamps are correct! I’m gonna check my devices now!

  141. Katie
    20 Mar, 2014 – 7:48 am the latest I read is that the dicovery of item of debris SW of Perth was discovered SUNDAY but only annouced todays briefing. The Minister apparently had to be corrected when he stated it had been discovered today. I agree with your observation: if so important why effectively four day delay in making public?

  142. Mary
    20 Mar, 2014 – 8:09 am if the debris really is from MH370 and not just planted, there is no logical reason for it being there. It is en route to where? The South Pole? No terrorist group has claimed responsibility so only auto pilot on crazy course till plane ran out of fuel or maniac pilot on crazy suicide trip would make any sort of sense for it being there. Hi jacking or intentionally a plane and its many occupants is unlikely without a gesture or motivation, and here we have none. Not to mention what over two hundred passengers were doing all the time. Did they think they were still on their way to Beijing, had they all been rendered unconscious/dead by the climb to 45k and a depressurised cabin or rendered compliant some other way without weapons rather like the Shanksville plane claimed to be again? Israel and US introduced air marshalls on their aircraft (in the case of US famously withdrawn to save cash immediately prior to 9/11). Are they still employed? Does MAS have them? All rather tangential I agree.

  143. just got to yours
    Kenneth Sorensen
    20 Mar, 2014 – 9:30 am. Apologies if I repeated your observation that I got to when I made mine. Wouldn’t want you to think I was plagiarising without attribution.

  144. Tim, so that’s changed already !

    CNN said Monday & later said 4 days, so that’s the foist I’ve heard of Sunday .
    I seriously wonder if this information has been released today as a sop to the grieving relatives after the fiasco at the press conference yesterday .

  145. ‘foist’ ?…..I seem to have gorn all oirish!!!

  146. Kenneth Sorensen
    20 Mar, 2014 – 10:32 am You will have noticed that Chevaline was the TWENTIETH anniversary of that big event as well as the FORTIETH for Munich.

  147. Katie
    20 Mar, 2014 – 10:34 am I never fail to be amazed by the outpourings of “experts” wheeled out for such occasions. So do we think they could have got there by ACCIDENT? Pilot looses his way or forgot where he was going?

  148. Why did the pilot race down towards the South Pole. Was it in order to escape Immarsat, those satelites all are geo-sstaionary and do not cover anything south of the 78th parallel? Just asking, because the whole thing seem stupid, so may be this stupiity makes sense somewhere.

  149. It can’t be a fire obviously.

    When that was purported to happen, he was about 120 miles
    of the east coast.


    His sharp veer back to the south west, took him on course
    for either Kota Bahru or RMAF Gong Kedak,

    He could easily have landed at either one, though of course
    the former would have been his first choice.



    As you can see from the flight route map, he flew right past
    Butterworth. Right underneath the noses of those clowns
    at the radar consoles there.

    They have a very capable state-of-the-art 3D phased array
    radar there, with a detection range of up to 280 miles.

    Same with that at Gong Kedak.

    Both radars definitely tracked the plane as it wandered from
    east to west across the peninsular, a duration of at least 45 minutes.

    If they had scrambled fighters to intercept and escort it down
    safely, the whole world wouldn’t have to come running to
    help search all over the oceans in both hemispheres like fools.

    A colossal failure of the Malaysian air defenses.

    If this had been a preemptive strike, say by Singapore’s F-15SGs,
    the airfield would have been flattened in two minutes.

    They’d be zooming away home before they even knew what hit them.

  150. Tim, yes Chevaline was 40 years after the Olympics in 1972, but what do you imply happened in 1992. The Barcelona Olympics?

  151. * It might not be wreckage
    * The pilot may have gone psycho and set an auto course toward the southern ocean before asphyxiating all at altitude.
    * The plane could have landed for reasons discussed and dummy wreckage has been dumped
    * The plane may well have been shot down as a 9/11 type threat by any of the air forces, in response to which which all governments would help to cover up.

    Also interesting that ACARS is in play to help clarify this investigation but the fact that UA 175 ACARS was communicating with ground stations in Pennsylvania 20 minutes after it crashed into WTC is not mentioned no-where. Except here.

  152. IF that is the plane. IF!!!!!!
    Not an exciting solution but a rational one:

    Quickly check google maps and enter

    43° 54′ 26”N 87°28’27”E


    43° 54′ 26”S 87°28’27”E

    And you can see


    The city suffered unrest in May 1989 with 150 injuries, and was the site of major rioting in July 2009 triggered by violence in Southern China between ethnic Han Chinese and Southern Xinjiang Uyghurs. Official reports of the 2009 riots say that nearly 200 people were left dead, but the actual toll is unknown and disputed. Reports of extensive retaliation against the Uyghur minority have circulated ever since, despite the Chinese government having shut down access to emails and overseas phone calls for over six months

    Hijacked but a false coordinate? South instead of North?   
    Did the hijackers make a dramatic error?

    James, your term as an expert. It had been night! Possible?

  153. And another thing. It is a major emergency when a plane loses its transponder signal. This is because only the transponder signal gives the plane’s altitude and, in busy air corridors, its loss dramatically increases the risk of collision. I believe that when the transponder signal is lost and radio contact cannot be made with the crew, jets are scrambled to escort the plane and report its altitude. My question to the Malasian authorties would therefore be: did you scramble fighter jets to locate the plane and, if not, why not?

  154. If it would be my decision then i would send an airplane to …

    43° 54′ 26”S 87°28’27”E

    … to locate the blackboxes in case the parts seen are parts of the plane.

    Maybe i am earning the $ 1 million prize money from warren buffet then ?


  155. Bluebird: that’s a good find.

  156. Tim, in reply, no I think… IF… it is part of MH370 it was ‘planted’… [ or should I say 'plopped ' ? ] there , not crashed at all.

    With all the crowd sourcing on Tomnod how come they missed it ?

    Also, surely something of such a size would fold or break if dropped from a great height , I paced out 24 metres & really that is one great length to stay intact when hitting the sea.

  157. Blue….

    What is more amazing is the flight missed the Indonesian Air Force.
    That looks deliberate.

    A North track. then a West track (North West track ?),then a South track.
    Certainly suggests a “hijacker” that knew what he was doing.

  158. ….and you would have to be madder than a box of frogs to even think you could enter Chinese air space without your transponder “on”.

  159. @Tim V 20 Mar, 2014 – 3:54 pm
    “am I never fail to be amazed by the outpourings of “experts” wheeled out for such occasions.”

    CNN at one point had 50 experts on standby in the green room to cover any contingency. Don’t know how many of these are paid or do it as for prestige or self-promotion. (The topic of Internet security and cyber-warfare brings out droves of self-promoters. With MH370 we’ve been spared those.)

    Some experts, particularly pilots who have recent experience on 777s, are knowledgeable. Many of the others are Former Directors of Agencies. If they ever had any hands-on technical knowledge it was 40-60 years ago, and I expect most of them were promoted or dropped in to their lofty positions via politics.

    A few of the really old ones embarrass themselves. Example, one old-timer couldn’t understand how the plane could ping a satellite since sound waves don’t travel in space. He was thinking of submarines and underwater pings.

  160. Well… finally worked out where that (or those) “pings” came from !

    On a triple 7 the SATCOM radio pack is in the rear, up in the ceiling.
    Guess “whoever” missed a trick there.

  161. The “next” question.
    If a total electrical failure (from a chain reaction)…

    Engines will run.
    Hydraulics will run (the engines are).
    Packs still run (no on/off even if the breakers pop) hence SATCOM “ping”

    Pressurisation (over ?)
    Thrust levers (Probably won’t work or erratic ?)

    The RAT (little turbine powered by airflow !) would deploy, so minimal electrics.
    …and comms ! ….and NAV !

    T’is weird this.
    Surely the 777 SiM guys have tried this.

  162. With surveillance overlords and their bullet-nose flashlights up our arses, a plethora of military and civilian sats (including infrared) probing for gnat-shit in rat-scat, a 777 cannot be effectively and competently tracked.

    I digress…

  163. How to steal an airframe.

    Joystick? Although fly-by-wire is an onboard function, I see no reason why a UAV being flown remotely couldn’t be accomplished in a 777 . Field-of-view from a camera (drone) makes it easier for the operator, but fly-by-sight is possible if the shadowing rogue-jet merging into MH 370′s radar image accompanies the target. JMO


  164. FoxNews commentators are increasingly vexed that the US hasn’t taken over the entire investigation and solved the mystery quickly. “Is there no way to force ourselves on the incompetent Malayasians,” they ask.

    Let me suggest Homeland Security declare some terrorist, wanted dead or alive, was a passenger using a fake name. That would justify intervention.

    Most reports say the world-renowned FBI has the pilot’s flight simulator’s hard drives at their US headquarters, to reconstruct yesterday’s notorious deleted files.

    A CNN expert let slip they did not have the originals but copies of the drives. Either that’s for legal reasons and Malaysia needs to retain original evidence, or Malaysians aren’t as stupid as we’re told, and are protecting against the FBI dramatically announcing discovery of terrorist connections or visits to bondage pages. Or he’d printed-out cigarette coupons.

  165. Inmarsat executive being wheeled out on Newsnight now!!!! Linked to story that Malaysians delayed data was passed ten days ago but wasn’t used within context that the debris COULD be “credible” lead. In Chevaline terms “It’s definitely the motorcyclist.”

  166. Inmarsat told Malaysia on the 10th March that the plane WASN’T in the area in which they continued to search and didn’t either apply this intelligence or inform the public. Make no doubt this BBC critical line, plus the British firm speaking on camera, would not happen without FO/MI6 approval. He also said after the info was passed Tuesday 11th US sent ships to the south on the 13th. Note that bit of information, it could be important not least because as I said earlier, only one US ship was mentioned in the 18 specified.

    The other expert represented “Blue Water Exploration” that appears to have Florida/Australian connections. His line was that with the passage of time, currents, drift etc its unlikely the plane will be located or recovered. Mmmm that’s convenient. The firm advised on the following.

    “April 2011 – The wreckage of Air France Flight 447 has been found at a depth of 3,900 metres by a team led by the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute using the Waitt Institute’s twin REMUS 6000 Autonomous Underwater Vehicles. David Mearns of BWR provided expert advice during the search to both the UK Air Accident Investigation Branch and France’s Bureau d’Enquêtes et d’Analyses. Specifically David advised the AAIB and BEA about the most probable location of the wreckage based on his analysis of the leeway drift of floating wreckage and bodies recovered after the crash. Keith Conradi, Chief Inspector of Air Accidents at the AAIB, praised David’s “invaluable contribution” and commented: “that the position predicted by David was shown to be remarkably accurate.”

  167. Indeed! LOL Mochyn69
    20 Mar, 2014 – 2:49 pm

  168. A point I made earlier uan Kerr
    20 Mar, 2014 – 4:58 pm. I agree it’s an important one. Standard protocol especially since 9/11 ((it was altered briefly in the US immediately before) to scramble fighters if commercial planes fail to respond. So why hasn’t Malaysia been asked to explain not only when it went dead but even less inexplicably when it returned over Malaysian airspace?

  169. I agree with your sensible point NR
    20 Mar, 2014 – 7:03 pm. I don’t doubt for a moment there are true experts in everything. (A maxim our science teacher liked was endeavour “to know something about everything and everything about something” which remains an unfulfilled ambition in my case I hasten to add) My point was that who speaking about what is almost as important as what they say. The media is dominated by a limited number of “talking heads”. They are the “favourites” often excluding the people who really know what they are talking about. Rupert Murdoch’s advice to Rebecca Brooks may be salutary. It was to keep out of the public eye. It’s why you seldom see the makers and shakers being interviewed and particularly sensitive political issues are at stake. When they do, particularly with an ostensible criticism of a national government or investigation, you can be sure it would be considered response with British Government consulted and blessing. It makes me even more certain of my earlier point and a similar to the device employed in the Chevaline mess.

  170. Tim V 2:02 pm. You may be on to something here, especially in [tacitly?] assuming that I am “on the job” of connecting the dots and starting the layer removal process, using my my oh so special “backward engineering” tool kit.

    As always, and you have already started to do, the best place to start in is to reconstruct the timing of various events and then look whether a pattern emerges of things that either did not seem to happen in a timely manner, or required all kinds of position reversals to ‘re-orient” the narrative.

    There are time points we either know for sure or can surmise/believe with high degree of confidence. These include that final voice transmission, the time (range) the plane went off the civilian radar grid (transponder off), the ACARS turn-off time (range), the time point at which the Malaysians announced officially the plane went missing, and the planned landing time at Beijing which didn’t happen.

    Then with somewhat less certainty we have the time at which malysian military radar claimed to have detected the plane (only one point? two time points?, and the time the Thai military has finally admitted to having detected it.

    Then come the Imarsat satellite “pings” over several hours, all the way to 8:11AM, supposed to be the last one, which should provide a nearly independent set of time points (unfortunately not correlated with location).

    May be we should have a hand plot of these two time lines, with a confidence level attached to each point (based both on the officials’ and our own intuition as to how much they can be believed).

    With this at hand, we can now superpose a separate time chart which will list the points in time when we know information was disclosed to the Malaysians and the time they chose to either reveal it, and/or adjust the search parameters and/or retract previous information. To this group belongs this strange 4-5 hour delay (is it more) for the Imarsat satellite data to be disclosed, which you discussed. And at a later point the 4 day delay between the time the Australian satellite saw the images and the time they were officially revealed (4 days!). Somewhere in between there’ll be the radar data of a third country that the Malaysians don’t feel at liberty to disclose, which we do not, as of yet know.

    I agree Tim V, that those “pings” which are apparently taken now as a certainty, made hash of the earlier time line as broadcast by the malaysians, considerably extending the flight time range, and taking it well out of the South China sea first search region. They led to the now-famous arcs that guide the current search. Arcs that appear to bypass the Maldives as well as Diego Garcia, and in which we all place the greatest confidence (assuming perhaps someone knew what they were doing when plotting them and had access to the input data (satellite position etc.).

    So, what we have so far, is one time line for the plane during the first 1-2 hours, a second timeline detailing the time gaps between information given to the Malaysian vs disclosed by them publicly, and a chart of time data based on “pings” out to the last and final “ping”. It was stated somewhere that the reason we cannot have the “arcs” corresponding to mid-point pings is because they may have been erased and written over (I think I saw that from a commenter at The Guardian, not from some official reply to reporters that never seem to ask the most pertinent questions).

    So far, so good, but the interesting part comes once we try try to come up with a corresponding matrix of places where the plane could be, corresponding to the different time points.

    I think only once we have all these elements together in one place can we start venturing to who told what when, before speculating on the why. I am not ready to do this yet, because I think we need a bit more information before dwelling on the various players. he one thing that is clear so far is that by all accounts, the Malaysians know more than they are telling. As do, I suspect, those in charge of the Imarsat satellite data. As do the Americans, which we’d be fools not to suspect given their dense satellite and radar coverage. Unlike Chevaline, the outlines of a potential cover-up are not yet, at least to me, though I’m beginning to see something like an outline.

    Sorry for the long post restating so much of what is already known and been discussed. My excuse is that sometimes, building a time-space matrix is useful, especially when the motives and the protagonists are unknown (and perhaps destined to remain so, we’ll see). At least it’s useful for me as a way of organizing the known information (known knowns), making it clearer which are the known unknowns (eg, the “arcs”), the unknown knowns (e.g., radar data from more parties) and the unknown unknowns (which we cannot do anything other than guess at this time).

  171. As there’s little to report at present, why has SKY not shipped Kay Burley off to the Maldives to interview those who saw a plane flying low early that morning ?

    Have we heard of any leading journalist doing that ?

    I gather there’s quite a number of people who saw it so surely it’s worth the effort .




  172. Christmas island………. Residents are mainly Chinese .

    They also have a problem with immigrants…could the sighted wreckage be one of their boats ?


  173. Location. Flight path.

    1. The map I suspect is based on the “final” ping.
    2. Previous “pings” would indicate a direction of travel.
    3. The “pings” appear to be generated by SATCOM transceivers “failing” to On/Run.

    If that is the case, why produce the “upper” ?

  174. @Tim V 20 Mar, 2014 – 11:17 pm
    “Standard protocol especially since 9/11… to scramble fighters if commercial planes fail to respond.”

    In spite of that there are several recent incidents in the US of commercial airliners landing at the totally wrong airport, sometimes with too-short runways. In one of case they took off again, and the flight crew wouldn’t have reported the error, except the flight attendants narked. None were detected by ATC.

    There’s also turmoil in the ICBM missile command, with officers disciplined and breaches of protocol, such as leaving blast doors open.

    An airline pilot forum claimed security in South East Asia is lax. We’ve learned of the babes-in-the-cockpit, but the same applies to ATC especially in light-traffic areas at night. India admitted some island radars are switched off at night. Even if radars are active how attentive are operators? Reputedly in Malaysia many jobs are political patronage; impossible to fire or discipline.

    Second thing. How much information, mis-information and dis-information can we endure. In the Chevaline affair, it was mostly the press and the police. In MH370 there are layers upon layers of intervening experts on highly technical subjects.

    Inmarsat finally clarified one point. Each aircraft has a unique ID when it pings. Why couldn’t any of the experts explain that? It’s no secret, though I couldn’t find the details on the web.

    An expert said he’d talked to the flight crew of one plane and they were all unaware that turning off ACARS did not turn off the satellite receiver/transmitter that does the pinging, which must be disabled from the equipment room under the cockpit, so that isn’t common knowledge.

    Still divergent opinions about how the Emergency Locater Transmitters work — some experts say there are two on the 777 and they deploy automatically upon a crash at sea. Which conflicts with what I said yesterday. Think most of this is from media reporters and some experts confusing the squawk transponders, with ACARS data unit, with Inmarsat satellite box, with ELTs and possibly the FDR/CVR boxes and their pingers.

    Fox interviewed a senator from one of the intelligence committees. He appeared on the show to reassure people the FBI was working 24/7 to recover deleted files. Then the interviewer asked a strange technical question about the electrical system on the 777. The senator, if he even understood correctly, says Boeing told committee that it does X.

    Interviewer later asks resident experts about this and the all say it’s not true. Interviewer goes, “But the senator said…”

    Next an ex expert from the intelligence community says from what insiders have told him, combined with his own intuition, indicates plane was flown to Pakistan, though it’s not likely there any more.

    Best comment from Yahoo Answers regarding the latest satellite pics, “I could have taken a better resolution picture with my cell phone!”

  175. NR, see james’ comment at 7:57pm about the location of the SATCOM transmitter – he says it’s in the rear ceiling. If he is right, and I assume he has looked into this, that would explain why pilots don’t even realize it’s there.

    Also, james – thanks for that link to the map from 7:20am. It’s interesting – kind of answers (or tries to ) your question (and many others’) about the other pings. two of those earlier time arcs could lead straight to the Maldives or to Diego Garcia. yet we are asked to only consider the last transmission point.

    Another question – fuel for the flight was reportedly (per malaysan transportation Min.) just enough to get to beijing plus maximum another hour (he said 1/2 hour) for potential diversion to another airport if there’s emergency. yet, we now know the flight kept going on for nearly 7.5 hours! and that means it took on more fuel than normal, especially given the greater burn rate at lower altitudes, which we hear he took. that not even taking into account the various maneuvers we are hearing about (for example, the one seemingly taken to avoid indonesian radar)! How do we square the potential distance traveled with the fuel supposedly taken in and the likely burn rate? the plane either had more fuel than normal or it didn’t. And if it did, surely that means there was some irregularity at the airport? and surely somewhere there are records indicating that? So how come no one says anything about this rather obvious point?

  176. “An airline pilot forum claimed security in South East Asia is lax”

    Ever been to Europe !!! Ever been to the U.S. !!
    Airline (and airport) “security” is lax full stop.

    Recently “deadheading” homeward on an airline, I noted an F/A passing a drink to the flight deck….with her back to me, she was having a chat with the pilots through the half open door.

    So where was the “guard” F/A stood facing the cabin ?
    A minor infringement you may say…. !

    How about the baggage handling at some airports.
    Roughly how many bags “go missing” per year !
    They don’t “go missing” they get loaded onto “unknown” aircraft.
    So the “reconciliation” has failed then. What 3/5 per 1000 is acceptable.

    And people wonder why private jets do a brisk business !

    P.S. Don’t get me onto “pilot suicide”. Some of the “fruit loops” I have met whilst trotting the globe is unbelievable.
    Stressed out, divorced, big mortgages, missing their “once a weekend” visit to see their kids due to working Saturday again, paying for the “divorce”….and working for a “big airline” is no fun at all.

    Especially if they’re facing possible “redundancy” and disliking the prospect of working for a “tin pot” three-sectors-a-day “hopper”.

  177. I would say 7,5 hours is just in the range possible, because we initially heard it had fuel for the 5 hour 40 minutes flight to Bejing plus 2 hours spare capacity. But you are right if it has flown low it would have burnt more. But why fly low over the ocean? Over the ocean they could well have flown in normal height.

  178. Marlin

    Good point. Generally (on one of those) it’ll be a company SOP that dictates what he carries with regard fuel and reserves, of course depends on alternatives, an extended hold, divert options and possible further hold (no one wants to declare an emergency at your divert !).

    All of that will be written up, so it will be a “known”. Again “unreleased” !
    But that will just be “protocol” prior to the investigation that will follow.

  179. Marlin

    The SATCOM radio packs are in the rear.
    Meaning the breakers can be pulled (for example)on the flight deck, but the SATCOM doesn’t “turn off”. It “defaults”, for want of a better word, to “run”.
    As in, it’s not “on/off”. It’s “on/run”.

    That’s why (I suspect) the “pings” were picked up (six I think has been mentioned in the press conference of today).

  180. Found this by accident re ACARS. Clearest explanation I’ve seen. A bit technical but readable. See comments at bottom. Even some of them are confused.

    The actual takeoff fuel load might be available in the first ACARS transmission. IF that’s included in the service to which the airline subscribed and IF there was an ACARS transmission before shutdown of ACARS. Above source claims there’s one per hour, determined by the far end (Inmarsat) and not the aircraft. Or if ACARS sent data via VHF radio while in range of land.

  181. NR

    Think of ACARS like a “text” message.
    You might text and it can do it automatically.
    Over land it’s sent by VHF. Over sea it’s sent by satellite.
    In “auto” it depends what package you have as to how many times it sends.

    Now imagine you don’t have a lot of cash and go for a poor package.
    The “texts” get saved up….and it’s sent in a “burst”.
    Now imagine you have a lot of cash and go for the better package
    You texts will be more frequent.

    And depending where you are….determines which way you send it !

    Now if you turn your phone off…. it really isn’t off.
    It still “responds” to the the masts and “pings”.

    That’s a simplest way to think of it.

    That’s the easiest way to think of ACARS.

  182. “The question is why the hijacker(s) did not prevent the plane from responding to pings: most probably, being a networking detail, not even pilots know that their system/antenna respond “I am here” even if the SATCOM is not being used by any onboard systems”

    And that I answered in an above post.
    The packs aren’t “off”.

  183. Just a thought about “six pings”.
    The first at 02.11. The last at 07.11. And no 7th (at 08.11).

    If so, that gives the current search area (ish).
    But that would/should indicate direction also ?

  184. If it realy is MD370 it could be the Israelis having got cold feet. Today people are so informed thanks to the uncontrollable internet, taht they cannot pull off another 9/11. so they decided to abort mission and crashing the craft into the sea. The passengers will never tell whether they briefly had a stopover at some Island. The black boxes will have been removed at the stop-over.

    Flash back

    This crucial story has never appeared in the big NYC papers, or anywhere else. Christopher Bollyn included it in his famous Solving 9-11 book. It tells the eery story of how a digital exercise which included a mock plane-into-building” crash on the morning of September 11. and confused officials, as to whether the hi-jacking of aircrafts was part of the exercise.


    Post-Standard, The (Syracuse, NY) – January 20, 2002
    Author: Hart Seely staff writer

    Also published in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania:

    UNTOLD STORIES // ‘We were suddenly no kidding under attack’
    Patriot-News, The (Harrisburg, PA) – February 3, 2002
    Author: Hart Seely, Of The Syracuse (N.Y.) Post-Standard

    At 8:40 a.m., Deskins noticed senior technician Jeremy Powell waving his hand. Boston Center was on the line, he said. It had a hijacked airplane.

    “It must be part of the exercise,” Deskins thought.

    At first, everybody did. Then Deskins saw the glowing direct phone line to the Federal Aviation Administration.

    On the phone she heard the voice of a military liaison for the FAA’s Boston Center.

    “I have a hijacked aircraft,” he told her.

    American Airlines Flight 11, headed to Los Angeles, had veered off course, apparently toward New York. The liaison said to get “some F-16s or something” airborne.

    Forty-one minutes earlier, Flight 11 had left Logan Airport with 81 passengers. For the last 27 minutes, it had not responded to ground control.

    Deskins requested Flight 11′s latest position, which an operator put up on the screen.

    Flight 11 wasn’t there.

    Someone had turned off its transponder, the device that identifies the plane to ground control.

    Boston Center could still track it on primary radar, but the operators in Rome would be hard-pressed to find it amid the jumble of blips on their screens.

    We’ll direct the intercept, the liaison told Deskins. Just get something up there.

    Deskins ran up a short flight of stairs to the Battle Cab and reported the hijacked plane – real world, not a simulation.

    “He says it’s going to New York,” she said. A thought flashed: Why is he going to New York?

  185. The cash site is carefully calculated to be 7,5 hours flying time from Kuala Lumpur. all the debris is the real thing, but the black boxes will never be found, cause they are destroyed on the stop-over the palne had at an Island location. It was becoming quite some logistical nightmare to provide food and other necessities to all the passengers, and since they could not sit there in perpetuality, and the mission was aborted, and they wanted no witnesses, the passengers was let on board again for their final journey, – also to let it look right, when the corpses are found next to the vreckage.

  186. Betpaqdala Desert, Kazakhstan !

    They couldn’t tell direction.
    Therefore if (“IF”) it did not register a “ping” at 08.11 and it’s not in the sea, then it could only be in the Betpaqdala Desert area.

    Seems unlikely.

  187. The deathly precision of the attacks and the magnitude of planning would have required years of planning. Such a sophisticated operation would require the fixed frame of a state intelligence organisation, something not found in a loose group, like the one led by the student Mohammed Atta in Hamburg.

    -Eckehardt Werthebach, former president of Germany’s Verfassungsschutz intelligence service, to Christopher Bollyn, December 2001.

    Edit: Kenneth Sorensen changed the word “organization” to its proper spelling, like it is used in the civilised world, and even in Germany.

  188. I believe this German (who like most Germans knows a thing or two about organisations and how to organise) and former head of his countrys intelligence service

  189. Ben-MAD Western Carnivore and Warmonger

    21 Mar, 2014 - 2:59 pm

    James; Are you skeptical wrt to ‘remote’ hacking-command and control of MH 370?

  190. One shall never say never,- and the Israelis have a proven record of being first with the latest. I think even Sherlock Holmes would tell you that this is really smart, if you want nobody to discover what you have just done.

    They employed this technique with the poisoninhg of Arafat with Polonium in the autumn of 2004, but was furious when the Russians copyied the technicque with the poisoning of the Jewish Litvinenko in London in 2006,- beacause suddenly the whole world got to know about it. This story has wider ramifications, brought home in these very days, because ultimately the crisis that Russia experiences today, setms from anatgonistic Jews with great influence on Capitol Hill, and even in The White House itself.

  191. Ever since Putin clamped down on the Oligarchs (more than 3/4 of which are Jewish) — which was what he was elected in 2000 to do, the Jews had tried to undermine him.

    Russia under Attack

    Victoria Nuland (formerly Nudelman), the Assistant Secretary of State who is pushing the Ukrainian “revolution”, is the wife of Robert Kagan, the founder of the Project for the New American Century. Her grandfather, Meyer Nudelman, an Orthodox Jewish immigrant from Lithuania, suffered from tertiary syphilis which caused “terrifying rages” and strange behavior. ”Here was an Orthodox Jewish man, and everybody associated syphilis with a completely different kind of life,” his son, Dr. Sherwin Nuland said in an interview with the New York Times. Victoria Nuland’s mother is the British-born Rhona L. Goulston. – See more at: http://www.bollyn.com/#article_14562

  192. “Standard protocol especially since 9/11 ((it was altered briefly in the US immediately before) to scramble fighters if commercial planes fail to respond”

    No, it was always standard procedure. What was changed a few months before 911 was whether pilots had the authority to shoot down planes that were heading for populated areas. They used to, but it was changed such that only the Defense Secretary could authorise such action.

  193. Ben-MAD Western Carnivore and Warmonger

    21 Mar, 2014 - 4:13 pm


    Lithium batteries on board….


    “Any Li-ion battery has the potential to go up in flames, and that’s a product of its chemistry. Lithium is used in batteries as an anode because it has extremely high electrochemical potential. That is, lithium-ion moving to the electrode produces a lot of energy. Lithium’s low atomic weight is also useful in reducing the mass of batteries.”

  194. Ben-MAD Western Carnivore and Warmonger

    21 Mar, 2014 - 4:19 pm

    SAA 295 (referenced by James, i think) had gear in the rear, Passengers had moved into first class to avoid smoke and fire, but will we ever know?

  195. Ben-MAD Western Carnivore and Warmonger

    21 Mar, 2014 - 4:52 pm

    I’m glad I’m not the only one thinking ‘misdirection’.


    “Then came an unexpected turn of events calling that story deeply into question. On March 7 Americans began to drown in a deluge of headlines pointing them thousands of miles from Ukraine, to Malaysia, where Flight 370 had inexplicably vanished.

    Ever since, the mystery of 370 has at least rivaled, and more often eclipsed, Ukraine in U.S. news headlines — even in our most respected elite news sources. Ten days after it disappeared, Flight 370 still held five of the top six spots on the New York Times website’s “most viewed” list, while Ukraine limped in at numbers 8 and 9. Over at the Washington Post site, the missing flight took two of the top four spots on “Post Most” (and an impending snowstorm held the other two). No sign of Ukraine at all.”

  196. http://www.kinitv.com/video/5060O8

    Published on 21 March 2014 23:3
    The spotlight has once again fallen on the cargo of the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 after authorities today confirmed the aircraft was carrying lithium-ion batteries which can be highly flammable.

  197. Ben-MAD Western Carnivore and Warmonger

    21 Mar, 2014 - 5:56 pm


    “PARIS, Feb 15 (Reuters) – Airbus has dropped lithium-ion batteries of the type that forced the grounding of Boeing’s 787 Dreamliner and will use traditional nickel-cadmium batteries in its crucially important next passenger jet, the A350.

    The European planemaker said on Friday it had taken the decision to adopt the batteries used on existing models in order to prevent delays in the A350′s entry to service next year, amid uncertainty over the potential fallout of Boeing’s problems.

    The move came a week after Reuters reported that Airbus was considering such a move to limit the risks surrounding the development of its own $15 billion airliner.

    “We want to mature the lithium-ion technology but we are making this decision today to protect the A350′s entry-into-service schedule,” an Airbus spokeswoman said.”

  198. Ben

    I am a “tad wary” that it was taken over “by remote control”, yes.
    However I think people are missing an important point about what may have happened.

    As for SAA 295. It was a 747 operated by South African Airways.
    The “config” of their “Jumbo Jets” at the time were half pax, half cargo.
    Yes pax were at the front….as they couldn’t be seated in the cargo area (aft).

    The “S.A. Govt” were of course “known” for carrying “allsorts” of stuff.
    They were “beating” the weapons embargo ! And everyone knew it. But did little.

    The fire started aft, in the cargo dept.
    And the rest (as they say) is history. And that’s what happens when their is a fire onboard.

    As for “pilot suicide”. It is possible in this case…as so are many things.
    Many things like an attack on KL ? Was that the intention ?

  199. Pink

    As far as I know lithium-ion batteries when they “burn” tend to explode.
    The MAS a/c flew (appears to have) for a number of hours.

    I would like to know what was on the manifest.
    And I would like to know what was loaded that wasn’t on the manifest !

  200. Do you mean as in smuggled on or as in hidden James ?

    “And I would like to know what was loaded that wasn’t on the manifest !”

  201. Pink

    Not sure. One or the other. Or both.
    What has happened (in modern times) is unheard of.

    Take “pilot suicide”.
    Why fly so long ? Makes no sense. (many reasons why not, too numerous to list).
    Sure it has happened before (Egypt Air)
    And the “attempt” on the DHL (?) cargo plane (for Life Insurance).
    Just to name but two

    But “this”. It’s totally weird. Something else must be going on.
    No idea what.

  202. Pink

    “Some of these factors coalesced in Malaysia becoming a quiet but essential logistical hub for Islamic terrorists, from those with global designs like al-Qaeda to regional groups with more local ambitions like Jemaah Islamiyah. On January 4 and 5, 2000, Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi arrived at Kuala Lumpur International Airport and headed directly to Cheras, a suburb of the capital city in neighboring Selangor state”.


    From 2010

  203. straw44berry

    21 Mar, 2014 - 9:43 pm

    @ James 8.31pm
    And the “attempt” on the DHL (?) cargo plane (for Life Insurance).
    Just to name but two

    I posted this earlier today on David Icke:-
    Just by coincidence I am currently watching a NatGeo programme ‘Air Crash Investigation’ about Federal Express Flight 705 to SFO in 1994 a cargo plane being hijacked by a Flight Engineer facing termination of employment because of irregularities in reporting of flight hours.


    The hijacker brutally attacked the 3 man crew and injured them all, whilst one of the crew fought the highjacker in the cockpit doorway, the badly injured co-pilot raised the nose of the aircraft and climbed, a DC-10 which ejected the 2 fighting men back down the aircraft away from the cockpit. The co-pilot then flipped the plane over far more than the recommended limit of 60 degrees to an angle of 140 degrees. Any further and he would have suffered from lack of vision. This meant the 2 that were still fighting were doing so on the ceiling of the cabin.

    The crew member called for help and the co-pilot who had finally managed to contact air-traffic control in this window, settled the plane down and put it onto auto-pilot, however flying away from their new planned landing in Memphis.

    The removed all weapons from the vicinity of the hijacker and the pilot took over controls unaware they werent flying towards the runway at Memphis. He was aware that they would be trying to land severely overloaded, however the switches to dump fuel were out of reach at the engineers position.

    Before the flight had taken off the hijacker had twice turned off the Cockpit Voice Recorder but each time the co-pilot spotted it was incorrectly in the off position.

    There are certainly enough similarities to MH370 and if the hijacker had only had 2 crew to overcome the plane could have remained in autopilot heading in whatever direction the plane had been on after the aerobatics using the aircraft to attempt to allow the hijacker to be overpowered.

    20 years on could an engineer have been on board flight MH370 and been turning off the Transponder, ACARS etc.

  204. As is the pattern with modern airliners the B777 is flown by two pilots and there is no flight engineer. On a passenger flight the captain ought to be able to expect help from the cabin crew or sky marshall (if carried) and even the passengers to subdue anybody trying to make trouble.

    So far we really have very few clues as to what happened on board MH 370 and won’t until the aircraft or it’s wreckage is found and the CVR and flight recorder recovered. Until then everything is just idle speculation.

  205. Straw44berry

    I think Kempe just answered that.

    I can only add that the “flight engineer” on MH307 was likely an “mechanic”.
    Also he worked in private aviation, so likely Gulfstreams, Globals, etc….

    He “could” have had working knowledge of “comms” (ACARS, SATCOM and so on) and he could have had flight training (pure speculation of course) BUT I doubt he could have taken control of a Triple 7 “bang on” the hand over (one controller to another) and then turned the aircraft “straight down” the horizontal separation.

    You have to remember that there were likely “four” controllers that didn’t know which was in control ! AND add in “two” military controllers monitoring that airspace that would think “one” of the “four” had this aircraft under control !

    THAT is some doing.

  206. BrianFujisan

    22 Mar, 2014 - 2:27 am

    Ben and Co

    You’ll Love this Theory Lol

    ‘Black Hole’ Theory for Missing Malaysia Flight 370? CNN Anchor Actually Asks

    “I know it’s preposterous, but is it preposterous, do you think, Mary?” Lemon asked Mary Schiavo, former inspector general of the U.S. Department of Transportation.
    Schiavo wasted no time. “It is. A small black hole would suck in our entire universe, so we know it’s not that. The Bermuda Triangle is often weather and ‘Lost’ is a TV show.”

    Today (March 20), Australian maritime officials released new DigitalGlobe satellite photos that show potential debris from the missing jet, offering a new focus for the search teams. It bears mentioning that should a real black hole actually materialize anywhere near Earth, the odds of its massive gravitational influence going unnoticed by astronomers around the world are, well, astronomical.

    “It is. A small black hole would suck in our entire universe,

    WHO Are These People..FFS


  207. Brian Fujisan…

    They are American !

    Fox News took a several days to realise Malaysia was “mainly Muslim”.
    ….AND they were actually shocked !

  208. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/10714907/Revealed-the-final-54-minutes-of-communication-from-MH370.html

    Transcript of flight DH370.
    …..and it sounds very sloppy to me.

    The note confirms it is a Mandarin to English translation.
    So that’s English (the original) to Mandarin and back to English.
    Maybe that’s why it sounds “sloppy”.

    The “media” report that “experts find nothing wrong” with these comms.
    No idea who the “experts” are. But they must be crackers.

    If (IF) that is the “proper” transcript.
    And if (IF) the (a) pilot(s) are not involved.
    And if (IF) there was no “catastrophic” failure of the aircraft….

    ….then I wonder if they were hijacked whilst “on the ground”.
    Just (yet another) possibility.

  209. Mind you…. it would seem that ATC at KUL likes to keep pilots guessing !

    The weather there can change quite drastically.
    Storms can roll in. So you’d think for them (ATC) they be on the ball.

    But can anyone tell me what the surface winds direction and speed was at KUL when MH307 was Cleared For Takeoff ???????

    I’m f***ed if I know from that transcript !

  210. The Malaysians are being over-maligned regarding wasting time on the original search, rather than shifting sooner to the current location west of Australia. A lone commentator on CNN agrees. They could not have devoted resources until supplied with satellite pics of the two pieces of debris at the southern end of one of two vast arcs.

    Now that those have not yet been located, we’re told they probably sunk, so as not to embarrass the West, something no one mentioned re the search based on Chinese satellite pics. Another expert doubts the new pics, because the objects are too large; if the wings broke off and fuel tanks were empty the pieces would not float flat, but vertically like an iceberg with the lightest end above water.

    The following timeline is from:
    POSTED: 20 Mar 2014 20:43

    With bits in [ ] interleaved from The Guardian and Malaysian Airlines. Note that times may not agree and days may be off by one. This will clarify matters or add to total confusion. My point being that Malaysia couldn’t start the Indian Ocean search until around March 15th when experts agreed on the Inmarsat data and a smaller search area until around March 20th when they had satellite pics of debris.

    – The Boeing 777 takes off from Kuala Lumpur, bound for Beijing, at 12:41am. It vanishes from Malaysian civilian radar at 1:30am, just before passing to Vietnamese air traffic control. It blips on military radars until 2:15am, but that sighting is only identified later as flight MH370.

    – The search area now includes land on the Malaysian peninsula itself, the waters off its west coast, and an area to the north of Indonesia’s Sumatra island — all far removed from the flight’s scheduled route.

    – Malaysia expands the search zone again to include the Malacca Strait off its west coast and the Andaman Sea north of Indonesia, hundreds of kilometres away.

    [Malaysian Airlines re Inmarsat]
    ["Friday, March 21, 05:30 PM MYT: I would like to briefly discuss the processing of the Inmarsat data. The investigations team received the complete raw Inmarsat satellite data which included the six handshakes at approximately 15:00 on Wednesday 12th March. This type of data is not normally used in investigations of this sort. It is only because we have so little other information to go on in this difficult and unprecedented situation that the data is being used."]

    – Chinese satellite images of suspected debris in the South China Sea are found to be yet another false lead.

    [Malaysian Airlines re Inmarsat]
    ["Initial results were received on Thursday 13th March at approximately 13:30, but it was agreed by the US team and the investigations team that further refinement was needed, so the data was again sent back to the US."]

    – The hunt spreads west to the Indian Ocean after the White House cites unspecified “new information” that the jet may have flown on after losing contact.

    [Malaysian Airlines re Inmarsat]
    ["The results were received at approximately 14:30 on Friday 14th March, and presented to the investigations team at a high-level meeting at 21:00 on Friday. The UK AAIB, who had also been processing this data independently, presented their results – which concurred with ours and those of the US team – at that meeting."]

    – Satellite data [Inmarsat] now places the jet anywhere on one of two huge arcs — a northern one stretching into Central Asia and a southern one swooping deep into the Indian Ocean. The search in the South China Sea is called off.

    [Sat 15 Mar: ... the plane’s communications systems had been deliberately turned off and that the jet had seemingly flown on for another six hours after contact was lost... while the transponder and Acars data system were turned off early in the flight, the plane communicated with satellite seven hours after it took off... The satellite communication could only determine that the plane took one of two huge flight corridors following its last confirmed location at 2.15am a week before over the Malacca strait.]

    [Malaysian Airlines re Inmarsat]
    ["The Prime Minister was briefed on this satellite information at 08:00 Saturday 15th March, and publicly announced it at the press conference at Saturday lunchtime. Search and rescue operations were immediately shifted to the northern and southern corridor."]

    – Malaysia announces that the number of countries involved in the search has jumped from 14 to 26.

    [Guardian: Mon 18 Mar: While the last signal from the Acars data communication system came earlier, at 1.07am, it was not due to transmit again until 30 minutes later, Hishammuddin, the interim transport minister, told reporters, meaning that could have seemingly been turned off at any point before 1.37am.]

    – Australian and US surveillance planes begin combing 600,000 square kilometres (230,000 square miles) of the remote Indian Ocean in the southern search corridor.
    – The total search area now encompasses an area bigger than Australia, Malaysia says.

    – The massive 26-country search appears bogged down in coordination problems, with some ships and surveillance planes sitting idle pending clearance to enter foreign waters and airspace.
    – In a further sign of miscommunication, the Thai air force reveals that its military radar had picked up what appeared to be flight MH370 just minutes after it was diverted.

    – Australia says satellites have spotted two objects — one estimated at 24 metres (79 feet) long — in the southern Indian Ocean. Officials in both Australia and Malaysia says the imagery is “credible” but caution that it shows nothing definitive yet.

  211. James, I’m in full agreement with you about the manifest, the Lithium batteries are a red herring.

    This is well worth a read,do not tell me nothing showed up on their radar the night of MH370 disappearance,the very fact no one is questioning & pestering them stinks to high heaven;

    ‘Diego Garcia is one of the five control bases for the Global Positioning System, operated by the United States military.
    The United States Air Force operates a High Frequency Global Communications System transceiver site located on the south end of the atoll near the GEODSS station. The transceiver is operated remotely from Joint Base Andrews and locally maintained by NCTS FE personnel.

    Naval Computer and Telecommunications Station Far East Detachment Diego Garcia operates a detachment in Diego Garcia.
    This detachment provides base telephone communications, provides base network services (Local Network Services Center), pier connectivity services, an AN/GSC-39C SHF satellite terminal, operates the Hydroacoustic Data Acquisition System, and performs on-site maintenance for the remotely operated Air Force HF-GCS terminal.


  212. straw44berry

    22 Mar, 2014 - 9:22 am


    But can anyone tell me what the surface winds direction and speed was at KUL when MH307 was Cleared For Takeoff ?

    Answer:- At 12.30 am on 8/3/14 Windspeed was 2 mph from the ESE.


  213. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2586308/Missing-jet-WAS-carrying-highly-flammable-lithium-batteries-CEO-Malaysian-Airlines-finally-admits-dangerous-cargo.html

    What Ahmad Jauhari said four days ago:

    When asked at a press conference if there was any dangerous cargo on board, he replied: ‘We had a load of mangosteens headed to China.

    ‘It was a large quantity – about three to four tonnes of mangosteens,’ he said to laughter from the media.

    What he said today:’We carried some lithium-ion small batteries, they are not big batteries and they are basically approved under the ICAO (The International Civil Aviation Organisation) under dangerous goods.’

    What he will say next week:
    We carried tons of porcelain.

    What he will say in 6 years:
    Magically, perhaps due to the salt in the water and due to the high pressure 4000 metres below sea level, the porcelain on board transformed into gold.

    At least this is technically much more likely than the quick transformation of mangosteen fruits into lithium batteries. The malaysians are true magicians.

    Media photos of the flight simulator are photoshopped.


    Watch the vertical line in the middle on top of that picture where the background of his flat suddenly ends. I almost bet that he didnt have a flight simulator. This is setup due to the script.

  214. @straw44berry – I think the point James was making was that the crew should have been told the wind info before take-off and that it should thus be in the transcript. Thus lax procedure.

    I’ve not read the transcript yet.

  215. Bleb

    Spot on. Hence the “transcripts” have to be a very bad “fake”.

    So proof (if proof where needed) how “bad” the MSN “exclusives” actually are.
    And how “really bad” the “experts” on “The News” are.

    Wonder if CNN have found their “black hole” yet ????

  216. Bleb

    I realised that and even if it were translated twice whole parts of the conversation cant disappear. I assume they would also ask about cloud cover and visibility, especially when taking off at night.


    How easy would it be for the whole flight to be a phantom?

  217. Visibilty was 10km between Midnight and 1am though by 2am it was just 3km

  218. BB, are you sure that’s the right link for the Iranians?

    I cannot find the animated photo we had earlier in the week,maybe its been pulled as it was very incriminating.

  219. Here’s the cargo,

    03/10/2014 21:55 -0400
    A curious story, and one which should be taken with a mine of salt, has surfaced out of the pro-Russian newspaper Iskra, which reports – so far on an entirely unsubstantiated basis – that last Friday, in a mysterious operation under the cover of night, Ukraine’s gold reserves were promptly loaded onboard an unmarked plane, which subsequently took the gold to the US.

    From the source:

    Tonight, around at 2:00 am, an unregistered transport plane took off took off from Boryspil airport.

    According to Boryspil staff, prior to the plane’s appearance, four trucks and two cargo minibuses arrived at the airport all with their license plates missing. Fifteen people in black uniforms, masks and body armor stepped out, some armed with machine guns.
    These people loaded the plane with more than forty heavy boxes.

    After this, several mysterious men arrived and also entered the plane. The loading was carried out in a hurry. After unloading, the plateless cars immediately left the runway, and the plane took off on an emergency basis.

    Airport officials who saw this mysterious “special operation” immediately notified the administration of the airport, which however strongly advised them “not to meddle in other people’s business.”

    Later, the editors were called by one of the senior officials of the former Ministry of Income and Fees, who reported that, according to him, tonight on the orders of one of the “new leaders” of Ukraine, all the gold reserves of the Ukraine were taken to the United States.

    Indicatively, according to the latest IMF figures, Ukraine’s official gold holdings are just over 40 tons, having doubled in the past decade:


    Flown to & reloaded onto MH370 at Diego Garcia ?

  220. Katie
    22 Mar, 2014 – 10:20 am
    I dont understand your question.
    What link?

  221. BB.
    Your photo bucket link, sorry I was too eager, I thought it was to show the two Iranians.
    Do you still have the animated photo of them ?

  222. Straw

    The whole flight ? As in no take off ? Pretty damn difficult I imagine.

    At the “hand over” the turn West was made.
    He’d be finishing with one controller and calling another.
    That’s a pretty good moment to “go west”.

  223. Hello everybody, my name is Donald …. Katie has invited me to comment here, just introducing myself for now, shall get an avatar soon :-)

  224. Just some thoughts on MH 370

    It is entirely possible for the plane to have crashed over its charted course and because its ACARS system is a sealed unit, had it not been damaged, it might have continued to ping the ACK signal whilst under the shallow waters in the area until water finally got into it.

    I don’t believe the Vietnamese did a proper and professional search of their areas, their planes and choppers were Russian antiquated things and they would have been at the extreme range of their flight capabilities.

    Any signals picked up by miliary radar after the supposed disappearance does not mean it was the actual plane, Primary radar does not identify planes, it only sees them as objects in the sky and at the time the area was filled with other planes flying in all direction.

  225. Donald

    You mean the FDR(s) ?

  226. “Primary radar does not identify planes”

    Correct. What is done is, take the track the Primary radar track recorded, then “overlay” with the Secondary radar track recorded.

    You also take “all” Primary radar tracks recorded. And cross check with “all” Secondary radar tracks recorded. (and of course eliminate “known, unknowns”).

    That’ll leave one track….which should have also been “on” the Secondary track recorded (until it ended).

    However there maybe an issue already with the primary radar track recorded, which has been published. will wait and see how that turns out. It may just be the “map overlays” that have been used.

  227. No Jamie, I meant that military primary radar is not equipped to pick up the pings from either the ACARS or the Transponder, the old name for the transponder signal is IFF .. “identification Friend or Foe”

    All military radar picks up is a return signal from the metallic skin of the plane, they have no way of knowing which plane it is, only its location and usually its size.

    You can see all the planes in the area the time by clicking on this link, lots of pictures to search but you will soon understand that it was entirely possible for the military radars of Malaysia, Thailand and Indonesia to not be able to tell just which plane was which


  228. Donald

    Er… yep, that’s what I just said.

    You take Secondary (civil and tagged) and compare to Primary.

  229. And it’s James ! Don !

  230. Sorry, your comment of 12:33 was not there when I began writing my reply to you

  231. Ok, James it is

  232. A story in the Times today that there was a consignment of lithium batteries in the hold implying a fire took hold. No link. Paywall.

  233. Sorry Bluebird. I see that you already said that. Thread getting too long like the al Hilli thread.

  234. Donald

    So “that” looks like the “turn back”.


  235. http://inquiringminds.cc/questions-the-media-havent-been-asking-about-flight-mh370

    “More than seven years ago, in 2006, a publication by the name of Homeland Security News Wire, whose editor in chief studied at Tel Aviv University, ran a brief story about Boeing’s Uninterruptible Auto Pilot System. In the wake of the still missing Boeing 777 aircraft, another publication ran a story, which stated in part:

    Perhaps the most unsettling information in regards to the missing Boeing 777 comes from retired 35 year Delta pilot, Field McConnell, who states that since 1995, Boeing Uninterruptible Auto Pilots have been equipped in Boeing planes. This information was apparently not released until March of 2007, following a subsequent lawsuit by McConnell. The modification was reported to the FAA, NTSB and ALPA (airline pilots association). According to McConnell’s documents, Boeing is said to have stated that by end of 2009 all Boeing planes would be fitted with the BUAP – making them impossible to manually hijack within the plane but susceptible to remote control by the military, according the flight veteran.

    At least one organization, Voice of Russia, bothered to interview the retired pilot, mentioned above, on this particular topic, but it is obviously not deemed to be sufficiently relevant for general public consumption, as though it were yet another taboo subject, just too “hot” to address.”

  236. Sorry
    Kenneth Sorensen
    20 Mar, 2014 – 4:30 pm. That twenty year anniversary relates to the secret Norwegian talks that lead to the much derided peace deal signed on the White House Lawn in 1993 on the 5th SEPTEMBER.

    “It called for a five-year transitional period in which Israeli forces would withdraw from occupied territories and a Palestinian Authority would be set up, leading to a permanent settlement. It was signed on the White House lawn in September 1993 in the presence of Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin and PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat. ”

    So to be more precise 5th September was a fortieth and nineteenth anniversary of what to many Israelis were days of calumny and treason, the former resulting in the state assassination labelled “Operation WRATH of God” with documented killings for at least the next twenty years; and the second resulted in Rabin being the only prime minister to be assassinated in 1995.

    I do not think it is rational to believe these things are irrational or co-incidental.

  237. I didn’t mention the fate of Arafat that is now surely known by everyone.

  238. Whilst on the subject of pilots, they have proved to be a confounded nuisance to those in high places in the American Administration. “Pilots for Truth” have produced much incontrovertible evidence flatly contradicting the official 9/11 story as everyone here probably knows.

    The latest appears to be new footage of just a few significant frames showing what is likely to be a cruise hitting the Pentagon and certainly not a 757 at least. Also detailed analysis of Shanksville that rules out a plane there too. (Sorry to Ben earlier I think regarding my short-hand in relation to the amended fighter engagement protocol. You are of course right to be more accurate)

    So on pilots it is not at all clear what happened to the ones flying the 9/11 planes that flew off, but did not end up where they were said to, or indeed the passengers. This is where modus is established for disappearing aircraft by the Americans. It is very suggestive in relation to MH370. Then add in BB (or was it NR’s) (sorry) reminder of the Egypian plane’s interception over the Mediterranean, plus the means to take over a 777′s controls, plus the seventh fleet with aircraft carrier and fighters in the vicinity (probably) and island bases in flying distance and no announcement for more than 5 hrs potentially allowing it to land/refuel/be out of there? and you start to have a fairly credible scenario I would say.

    The American assets, and probably only theirs, would be able to block normal communications (all the local phones went down it is reported) and a fighter on your wing is an offer a pilot has difficulty to refuse. Radar places another plane on its tail off Vietnam before both just disappear off screen!

    As always we are dependent on these sources being reliable.

    Two further little indicators pointing to Washington I would say: the State Department spokesman promoting “probably at the bottom of the ocean by now” opinion. Its such a throw away line. No aeronautics/diplomat would suggest such without reason – no least because “callous” doesn’t play well PR wise – but also you don’t pre-judge disasters until you have firm evidence. It, you will notice, and I apologise for repeating myself, replicates Eric Maillaud’s fatalistic approach at the beginning of Chevaline that the crime would never be solved.

    The second little indication of spookery was that reference to the mainstream discussion on “black holes”. Americans are highly superstitious and suggestible. A majority believe in the supernatural. There is value in introducing an element of the mysterious and occult to the mix. It confuses the the very practical issues, it deflects and distorts, and can even tar those who raise the sensible, level-headed objections. I can almost hear the Spokesman retorting “Oh I suppose your one of those nut cases who believe it went down a black hole”.

    Sorry I have digressed from the pilots. Only a couple of days ago another fell from a 12th floor 4ft balcony whilst on a Florida holiday after a 35 year career with American Airlines. Inexplicable but definitely not foul play of course.

  239. From the Al Hilli thread:

    Personally speaking, I haven’t given up on Chevaline either, though in the absence of any new developments or revelations, there is not much to say. We are clearly “second-tier” investigators. Were we able to take the role of journalists (of the old school) or even police detectives things might be different. Unfortunately as we have noted many times, the former largely act as as channels for whatever is put out by official sources (did you notice the repetition of that term “credible evidence” that kept cropping up re. MH370 possible debris that I believe results from orchestration) and the latter is firmly under political/security services control.

    Rank and secrecy are such fundamental characteristics of British policing, and so much depending on them in pay and pension, that “toeing the line” is integral to quasi-military set up. From Constable to Chief Constable and if he or she know what’s good for them, through Special Branch and MI5 in the Home Office.

    There is still the big question hanging? What has that huge British investigation discovered and when will it be revealed? Only Parliament has the necessary tools to enquire if our “free press” is unable or unwilling so to do. Isn’t it time questions were asked of the Home Secretary in the House? Perhaps it is time a public petition was organised?

    “In my book”, the only rational explanation for the total silence from the British side (apart from seeded disinformation) can be matters of national security. However to admit such would obviously beg the question and prove collusion and cover up at least on the French side, and by implication the British side also.

    So we have this state of scarcely believable theatre and we know all theatre is merely illusion to portray or protect greater truths. It certainly seems we have repeat performance in MH370, a plan perhaps frustrated only by a little oversight on the part of the planners – a “bleeping” transmitter in the “bleeping” tail, which the “bleeping” British chose not to keep “beeping” quiet about!

    So in this regard I thought an event from the past illustrates some of the issues we have seen here. The way the British Government works at least. How Parliamentary procedures are by passed when it comes to matters of state security. How figures in the opposition are made to toe the line so that they don’t. How Special Branch is employed to enforce. How the BBC is coerced.

    These events link Chevaline, “Zircon” spy satellites, and secret accounting 25 or more years ago. It is old hat when it was still possible to walk up Downing Street without a semi-automatic or gate in sight, so it would naive to things were now much different or better. It is what makes that “Panorama investigation” so significant as a window into British Government thinking and strategy.

    If you don’t have time to look at all these references, just look at the last which in some ways brings it altogether.









    TopSat (Tactical Operational Satellite) is an Earth observation satellite that was launched on October 27, 2005 alongside the Beijing-1 Disaster Monitoring Constellation satellite by a Cosmos rocket from Plesetsk Cosmodrome in Russia. TopSat carries out imaging with a ground resolution of 2.5m. Much smaller and cheaper than other imaging satellites of similar high resolution, TopSat has been used to demonstrate the feasibility of providing images on demand to portable groundstations, such as might be deployed by the military or by disaster relief organisations.



    TopSat was built in the United Kingdom by Surrey Satellite Technology Ltd, QinetiQ and The Rutherford Appleton Laboratory under the British National Space Centre Mosaic programme. The MOD was the largest single contibutor to the program.

    The TopSat program was highly successful technology demonstrator able to return decent imagery for a knock down price of just £15 million. It was hoped that the UK would be able to build a constellation of these satellites however with present budget cuts the appetite for this seems to have diminished.”

  240. “From the Al Hilli thread”

    Rolls eyes and wonders why the hell he is posting his bizarre rant here !

  241. Worth to consider a similar event with malaysia airlines boeing 777-200, approx 9 years ago ….


    2005 In-flight upset; Boeing 777-200, Malaysian Airlines 9M-MRG,
    240 km NW Perth, WA

    The PFD airspeed display then indicated that the aircraft was approaching the overspeed limit and the stall speed limit simultaneously. 

    The aircraft pitched up and climbed to approximately FL410 and the indicated airspeed decreased from 270 kts to 158 kts. 

    The stall warning and stick shaker devices also activated. The aircraft returned to Perth where an uneventful landing was completed.

    It looks as if the computers were taken over and therefore received wrong data for a short period of time that caused the plane to pitch up to FL440.

    A similar event (dangerous pitch up) took place in 2005 with Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777-200 on a flight from perth to kuala lumpur when the computer received wrong data.I don’t know whether or not this was the same airplane or just a “sisterplane”.   

  242. The 9M-MRG Boeing 777-200 event flight data (the missing plane is 9M-MRO)
    Tech report is probably interesting for james.
    Graphic animation included.


  243. This was very interesting, and careful researched stuff, Tim – in the spirit of Christopher Bollyn. Thanks for that.

    I particularly found your info about Boeing’s Uninterruptible Auto Pilot System. (BUAP) VERY interesting:

    In the wake of the still missing Boeing 777 aircraft, another publication ran a story, which stated in part:

    Perhaps the most unsettling information in regards to the missing Boeing 777 comes from retired 35 year Delta pilot, Field McConnell, who states that since 1995, Boeing Uninterruptible Auto Pilots have been equipped in Boeing planes. This information was apparently not released until March of 2007, following a subsequent lawsuit by McConnell. The modification was reported to the FAA, NTSB and ALPA (airline pilots association). According to McConnell’s documents, Boeing is said to have stated that by end of 2009 all Boeing planes would be fitted with the BUAP – making them impossible to manually hijack within the plane but susceptible to remote control by the military, according the flight veteran.

    So that explains the crash south of Australia, then It was on auto-pilot, and nobody could manually control it and it ran out of fuel. Is that the lesson you draw from this, too?

    I will definitely be on the look out for news from “Pilots for Truth”, because they are – as you said — generally a very sturdy and reliable bunch. I remember the morning of 9/11, a [Swedish] pilot brought into the studio on Swedish Television, saying that the very elaborate “Swing” which the second plane made prior to crashing in, clearly was the work of a professional pilot.

    I saw Bollyn talking about that both planes that hit WTC entered “computer-rooms”, one of them belonging to the insurance company AIG (The one that was bailed out by the government in the wake of the financial crisis) which “had been locked off for months” and witnesses have seen heavy “batteries” been brought in, literally filling up the whole floor space. So presumably whatever those “batteries” consisted of, they were meant to enhance the effect of the exploding aircraft. But do we know how the aircraft were avle to enter these specific rooms? Which signalling system in the rooms where communicating with the aircraft so that they could enter precisely there. Was it laser-based, or what do you think?

  244. No on second thought, it was probably radio-based so nothing could be seen.

  245. In connection with the “batteries” that was brought in to the rooms, where the planes crashed in, they could in reality just consist of ….lead. Now we’re back with what I’ve always thought about the collapse of the Towers. I’ve always thought that the aircraft scraped of the fire-insulating from the steel-beams (but of couse there is a problem: Could they just scrape of all the protection) and the fire from the explodong jet-fuel weakened the iron, and the weight of the floors above made the steel cave in, and the weight just increased with each collapsing floor all the way to the bottom. But of course: If you prior to the event deliberately have brought additional weight into the building – perhaps as much as to almost hazard the structure of the floor, this would certainly ensure that the towers easier collapsed, and that they went down symmetrically, straight to the bottom.

  246. This — relatively — simple explanation will also jettison out the “thermite” from the equation,- something I’ve never comed round to believe in. Whyh: Because its reasonably far-fetched in an already complex operation. Why not keep it simple; if additional weight brought in over (How about that!) the rooms where the planes crashed in, this would result in a speedier collapse.

  247. Blue

    Interesting report.
    That’s called “a bad day at the office”.
    And they had a windshear alert on their approach into Perth !

  248. @Kenneth Sorensen 23 Mar, 2014 – 4:42 am
    “No on second thought, it was probably radio-based so nothing could be seen.”

    Remember the guided bomb that found the map room of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade. However that was done, nobody believed the lame story of US/NATO mistakenly using old maps. One theory is it was a special GPS guided bomb flown on a non-stop plane from the US. Some say Clinton ordered the strike, while others say it was done independently by the military who discovered the Chinese spying on their stealth aircraft.

    “While America Slept — How the United States botched China’s rise. FEBRUARY 27, 2013: In May 1999, during the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, a U.S. plane bombed the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade. America apologized, but no Chinese leader believed it was a mistake.”

    It isn’t that much removed from GPS guided bombs and missiles to using an airliner.

  249. Interesting, NR, and I will certainly be reading that Foreign Policy. But to hit a specific floor using GPS? This is in my opinion not reliable. Good all fashioned radiobeems broadcast out from the room, and the plane honing in on it, is fool-proof. And remember they really, really wanted the planes to hit just these rooms.

  250. Blue

    What “concerns” me is the fact this aircraft “appears” to have been “flown”.
    A lot of pilots are saying “don’t crucify the crew” until the facts are known.
    And they are right. However….

    There “appears” to be a turn West executed.
    It was executed at an FIR handover (the point of most confusion).
    Transponders, ACARS and Radio Comms ceased at that point.

    The only tracking available is by Primary Radar.
    Further limited tracking was via the SATCOM equipment (ON/RUN not ON/OFF).

    The a/c appears to have flown “around” Northern Indonesia.
    The a/c appears to have flown a heading of 182 degrees.
    The a/c appears to have ceased fly between 07.11 and 08.11

    The a/c appears to have crashed (due to fuel starvation) in the most remotest and deepest parts of the ocean and is “potentially unrecoverable”.

    The a/c appears to be “under control” after it ceased to communicate for approx 756NM (1hr 30mins)MIN to 1105NM (2hrs 15mins) MAX.
    That is “way (WAY) outside” any known time limits at that altitude.

    At the FIR (and takeover) the pilot must be in a position to subdue the other pilot and take control “at the precise moment”.
    Once in control he did not crash the a/c immediately but waited between the times indicated above…or considerably longer to execute his deed.
    His attitude would need to be…
    1) See how clever I am.
    2) You’ll never find this aircraft.
    That attitude would have “likely” have been foreseen previously.


    A note on Primary Radar.
    There’s little point in having it, unless you can “do something” with it.
    So an Air Defence capability or Interceptor Squadron.
    Not “up on” modern fighters, but I assume that with external tanks the range of an interceptor (F16) is about 1,500NM. Enough to “prowl”. And that’s it.
    But that’s all that would be needed.
    Soon enough, DH307 (untagged) is on it’s merry way South.

    I would like to know the “Jump Seat” policy at MAS. Some companies (and countries) are very “lax” about these things. Not only taking “company” deadheaders, but sometimes “anyone”.
    But “that” scenario puts us back with “Pilot (if it was a pilot) Suicide”.
    And at the moment, I struggle to buy into that.

  251. Flight Plan at SkyVector.com

  252. @Bluebird
    Pearl Harbor was planned for a Sunday morning and the 1973 Arab–Israeli War started on Yom Kippur.

    If diversion of MH370 was an intentional act did the perpetrators use late Saturday night and early Sunday morning to gain an advantage in evading ATC and military radar in some country along the escape route?

    What countries in the area have their weekends — day or days off — on Sat/Sun or Sun/Mon. For example, in the West where Saturday is partyday and Sunday is a day of rest/recovery staffing is minimal and officers hard to locate.

    The Philippines is obvious. Any others? World calendar lists only “Baron Bliss Day — Belize” for 9 Mar. Not enough fuel to reach there. :)

  253. Field McConnell !

    He’s the bloke that writes to Putin and starts.

    “Dear Brother in Christ Vladimir Putin…..”


    “I further offer to work with Sukhoi and Russiato expose the technologies that enabled the destruction of the Sukhoi Superjet”.

    A real “fruit” that one. “Nurse…. get the restraints”

  254. Malaysia reveals that the pilot received a phone call a few hours before departure from a fake number. The mobile phone SIM card of the caller had been purchased by using a stolen passport of a woman.
    Another stolen passport ……

  255. Read that and you’ll notice that it is strictly impossible that the 777 could pass that area unnoticed and without immediate reply by indian airforces. IMPOSSIBLE!
    They are liars!



    The placid waters of the Andaman Sea belie the 24×7 threat perception that churns these waters literally on a daily basis. A war in the conventional sense might be a remote possibility, but that does not mean that the Indian Armed Forces do not prepare for any eventuality. Threat perceptions take into account a battle for the control of these waters.

  256. Dejavu Chevaline. Lies by A, refuted by B, other lies by B, refuted by A, truth by B, refuted by A, truth by A, refuted by B, lies by A, refuted by B, …… keep on turning the wheel …..


    KUALA LUMPUR – Police have refuted claims by a foreign tabloid that Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah received a call from a phone number registered with a dubious identity just before he flew Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 on March 8.

  257. Claim and counter claim !

    Going back to the “India question”.
    When the search of the Southern Indian Ocean began, China requested that it sends two (or maybe three) navy ships to the Andaman Island area….

    ….India politely refused !

    No idea what to make of that. China wanting a “poke around” ?

  258. Oh, here comes the justification for NSA/GCHQ snooping ..

    “02.50 The Sunday Times (££) has an interesting line, saying police have seized the bank statements, credit card bills, mortgage documents and other personal financial records of all 12 crew members of flight MH370.

    Sources in Kuala Lumpur, the Malaysian capital, said the criminal investigation into the disappearance of the plane is focusing on talk of domestic troubles for the captain, Zaharie Ahmad Shah, 53, and high spending by Fariq Hamid, 27, the first officer.

    The investigators have also obtained all the mobile and home phone records of the crew as well as details of their computer use and internet habits, according to police sources and people close to the families of the crew members.

    Working with foreign intelligence agencies, they are searching for evidence that any of the crew could have been subject to psychological or financial pressure.”


  259. Mochyn69

    If (IF) that is the case (and I think “suicide” is likely) they (someone) with knowledge of flight and systems (specific to the 777) would have had to….

    1. Wait to the “precise” moment of ATC transfer.
    2. Have previously incapacitated the other member(s) of the flight deck.
    3. Pull the breakers on “comms”
    4. Turned West….and waited.
    5. Flown around Indonesia
    6. Taken a heading to the first 182 degrees heading waypoint
    7. Set NAV for 182 heading
    8. a) Killed everyone onboard (and likely himself)
    8. b) Sat and waited for 5/6 hours as everyone banged on the cockpit door.


    Wait until his colleague goes to the toilet…. point the nose down and throttle up (and keep pressure firmly on the column) and see if you can hit the sea BEFORE you start to break up !

    The “first option” I take as “most likely” BUT (a BIG “but”) it’s a bit “long in the tooth” for my liking.

  260. Wonder what India (Campbell Bay) actually saw ?

  261. Kenneth Sorensen
    23 Mar, 2014 – 4:39 am I’m glad you liked my little discussion or “rant” as James kindly describes it. Clearly what is meat for one is foul for another. I wonder why? I have seen some early contributions from “James”. He seems a reformed character these days.

    My aim, if aim there was, to show how with time the issue of satellite detection has become a hot political potato, that is also used as a bargaining chip as with Britain contributing hundreds of millions to American assets so that it can get access, whilst not being wholly comfortable with the dependence. Falklands was the warning bell that encouraged “Zircon”. It can’t quite go it alone but it is moving that way.

    Zircon as you probably saw, was the second time big expenditure was with-held from the Commons watchdog. The first was Chevaline – upgrading with multiple warheads the Polaris missile – in complete secrecy. So rather neatly Chevaline the missile is linked to Chevaline the massacre. Why? Because apart from obvious vocabulary, the direct descendent of Zircon, abandoned on cost grounds, is the latest generation of “Topsat” from 2005 onwards.

    It is Topsat that connects in to Saad al Hilli through both the Rutherford Laboratory and SSST for which he worked. Qinetiq (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qinetiq) incorporates multiple links to the US through the Carlyle Group and takeovers. It even had CIA Director George Tenet on the board between 2006 and 8! The firm has had significant security, hacking and personnel issues. Its operating bases were amazingly close to SAH’s at one time, although there is no overt direct link except through SSST.

    So now the link with MH370. A topsat satellite gets the “pings” for 5 hrs plus after last radar contact. All those Freescale employees off to China. Is it a CIA imperative to prevent satellite technology getting into “enemy” hands. You bet your bottom dollar it is. Apparently SAH had much more computer work info. than he should have. Yet the laptops were not taken? The only explanation if this was the object of the exercise, is that the attackers were satisfied information could no longer be transferred.

    Now we hear (ty BB) B777 had strange problems twice previously whilst coincidentally on the QL route. And that the plane from 2007 had fail-safe anti hi jack but conversely subject to external military over-ride. And that the “crashed into the sea” explanation might have worked were it not for the “pings” and the “military radar”.

    Could it be a CIA operation? First if it wasn’t hi jack or suicide, and there’s nothing it appears to support either, then State involvement becomes more likely, and of the possible states, the US most likely on the basis of both capability and motivation. It also has clear previous both on black ops, using aircraft to transfer kidnapped individuals and of intercepting civil aircraft. It also can furnish similar cases of aircraft that ostensibly disappear over its own territory. Nor is it averse, it has proved averse, if it considers it necessary to sacrifice innocent civilians in aerial attacks in Europe in the 80′s and elsewhere since with its drones. 9/11 proved it was capable of literally anything, even against its own.

    Globally it is arguably the most advanced in drone and intercept technology. The US Government has intimate connections and control over its main aircraft manufacturers, including Boeing. It has Indian Ocean assets to which a plane could be flown. It has a large naval presence in the Indian and Pacific Oceans with fighter and awacs.

    From a strategic point of view China and Russia are holding hands and form a formidable and only opposition to American/Israeli plans in the middle east (Syria/Iran) and eastern Europe (Ukraine). It must therefore be of primary importance to limit the ability of both to control and utilize space. Particularly when military conflict is becoming increasing likely. (Syrian fighter shot down over Turkey today, military manoeuvres on the Russian?Ukrainian border!)

    In respect of wreckage photos, and in search, it is noticeable the US appears to have taken a “back seat”. The satellite photos are apparently provided by Australian, French and Chinese equipment NOT US although it must have the means. Further it was reported the US had actively WITH-HELD the information/intelligence that was available to them. They have released no radar information from Garcia that must have registered if a large plane had flown that abnormal route.

    Then there are the anomalous sightings and events: the two security men from the Maersk Alabama and its cargo. The removal of Ukrainian gold by plane to the US. Reports of low-flying civil aircraft over Pacific Islands. The announcement of a passenger plane with fighter escort on the eastern seaboard of the united states all in a corresponding timeframe.

    All this and a satellite/aircraft related killing in Chevaline that neither the French or the British are prepared to unravel because of the international ramifications and I think you have a pretty strong circumstantial case that this was a CIA organised black op. But then, as James will no doubt tell me in no uncertain terms, what do I know?

  262. or fowl even! (oh dear slip of the brain)

  263. mean mister mustard

    24 Mar, 2014 - 1:47 am

    “If (IF) that is the case (and I think “suicide” is likely) they (someone) with knowledge of flight and systems (specific to the 777) would have had to….

    1. Wait to the “precise” moment of ATC transfer.
    2. Have previously incapacitated the other member(s) of the flight deck.
    3. Pull the breakers on “comms”
    4. Turned West….and waited.
    5. Flown around Indonesia
    6. Taken a heading to the first 182 degrees heading waypoint
    7. Set NAV for 182 heading
    8. a) Killed everyone onboard (and likely himself)
    8. b) Sat and waited for 5/6 hours as everyone banged on the cockpit door.


    Wait until his colleague goes to the toilet…. point the nose down and throttle up (and keep pressure firmly on the column) and see if you can hit the sea BEFORE you start to break up !

    The “first option” I take as “most likely” BUT (a BIG “but”) it’s a bit “long in the tooth” for my liking.”

    Your posts have the aroma of misdirection. Why is it you don’t seem to have the courage of your convictions?–Maybe. perhaps, it’s possible…….

    JTRIG? Take a definitive stand instead of suggesting………….

  264. mean mister mustard

    24 Mar, 2014 - 2:02 am

  265. james @ march 23 7:53am

    I looked at the link you gave – it’s really interesting. Are you saying the plane made that 182 deg turn south as the chart shows? how was this calculated/ based on the pings alone? can you say who the source is?

    I liked the many airports and waypoints indicated on this map. Interestingly it looks like before that sudden turn the plane was on direct course to Diego garcia, allowing it to pass over the Maldives at about the time the islanders said they saw a low lying plane (no matter it was officially waved off – lots of things were “officially” discounted on this case).

    If the map you show of the plane’s course is true (and I haven’t seen that elsewhere) then it indicates that whoever the pilot was had complete control of the plane at that point, blowing out of the water the hypoxia hypothsis and/or the electrical fire theory from the Wire.

    Your thoughts will be appreciated.

  266. I have another concern here – we all seem to take the inmarsat “ping” data as absolute truth. maybe that is true but why are we so willing to assume that the release of this data – in whole or in part – is not part of whatever it is that could have happened to the plane.

    I am suspicious because for the same reasons other people find the sudden diversion of the search from the South China seas a bit, well, questionable. That on top of the fact that as Tim V pointed out above (I think that’s who did or was it katie?) the malaysian airline waited a rather long time before announcing the plane was missing. Then waited again quite some time before releasing/sharing the Inmarsat satellite data.

    james @7;49am laid some of the facts out rather well. We are all left scratching collective heads, but if anything jumps out about the handling of the plane’s disappearance, it’s the confusion of it all. It is only fair to ask whether the confusion from the malaysian side is due to lack of experience, incompetence or something else?

    I think we should bear in mind that the british SAT data is ALL we have to indicate a journey to the far south seas. As proper online detectives it behooves us to also examine possibilities that do not require full reliance on those data.

    Without those data the scenarios must include the possibility of the plane being shot out of the sky by some military force or another. naturally, if that happened there would be a major effort by almost all the governments involved to deflect attention from that. This could still be an attempted hijacking including the turn westward presumably indicated by malysian military radars but if there was a swift military reaction, resulting in loss of life and craft, well, I can see why this would be something no one wants to disclose. Which would explain a few things (but not all!).

    I know there are other scenarios – such as – if we don’t believe the pings, may be some were true and some not – in which case the plane flies on to Diego Garcia, for example, while all the kings’ horses and all the kings’ men keep searching the south Indian oceans for morsels.

    My hope is that, if they don’t find any debris that can be conclusively traced to MH370, the mystery of the disappeared flight will become quite unbearable. In which case a cover-up of what really happened is bound to show some cracks.

  267. Marlin

    I don’t know if the aircraft took a 182 heading. I took two “ideas” and looked at how this could be “played out”.

    The two ideas were “North around Indonesia” and “approx 1200nm off Perth”.

    Whilst there are waypoints back from the current search position (along 182) that are used by traffic heading across the Southern Indian Ocean, there is no waypoint further south.

    A couple of issues.

    As the aircraft flies south (along 182) it would have to be in Track Mode along that GPS heading. I have no idea of the winds there that night, but a crosswind would push the aircraft “off track” which would be “corrected” by the autopilot.It wouldn’t be a “true” courses. And the “pings” may appear to show a different heading (maybe why the arc was show with a large “error” allowed” (?).

    You say this blows the hypoxia theory out of the window.
    That seems to be true. (although aviation can be sometimes bizarre !).

    BlueBird also pointed out the Indian Air Force based at Campbell Bay (INS Baaz). As far as I am aware no information has been given by them.
    Surely a Naval base with airborne reconnaissance capabilities would have Primary radar….and would have “noted” this aircraft passing “close by” ?

    Add in the fact that a “fire onboard” would mean an instant divert AND the plane would undoubtedly ceased to exist 6 hours later and you’re left with a confusing mystery.

    No hypoxia, no fire and a pilot navigating a planned route leads only to pilot suicide.

    But a 6 hour wait for a suicide ? Baffled.

  268. Bad series for malaysian airlines. Today it was an A330 airbus.
    Is Ali al Hilli currently working for malaysian airlines after he left qantas as technical manager after those qantas accidents?


  269. I am puzzled, am I?


    Completed High school in the UK, Tertiary in UK (Air Service Training/Perth College) and started work in the Middle-east in 1977 as a Graduate Engineer. Served 15 years in Middle East, North African, Asia and European Operations. Established home in Australia in 1992, worked at Aerospace Technologies of Australia for 4 years,

    joined Malaysian Airline in 1998

    and joined Qantas Engineering in 2001. Extensive Lead and management experience in all departments of Engineering including Line Maintenance, Heavy Maintenance, Maintenance Control, Outstation, Customer Support, Production/Planning and Projects. Participated in Leadership development, coaching, Lean, People, Organisational Structuring and Technical Courses at QE and other Tertiary organisations. Aspire to Lead and influence change, promote and innovate the business, to lead and be involved in strategy and future vision.


  270. Breaking News…………………that’s become a bit of a joke lately.

    But there really is news this morning. Apparently the Chinese ‘have’ seen new debris ,not via satellite but from planes , eyes on, in roughly the area where searching is going on.

    Source, Sky news.

    James, don’t be too hard on Donald, he’s in Australia so hence the familiar use of your name, but I thought he could add some useful help here. ;-)

  271. Blue

    And all Boeing also.

  272. Katie…

    Get him adding some stuff.
    I was only pointing out that you compare what you have on Secondary to what you see on Primary. And the one “remaining”, is your track.
    For Example, 20 on Sec and 20 on Prim. Goes to 19 on Sec and 20 on Prim.

    And I had to laugh at your “Breaking News”.
    It’s normally followed by some craziness from the resident loony !

    Bring by Donald (as long as he doesn’t call me “Jamie” (sounds like I work for “Easy Jet” !).

  273. Boeing at Satellites.
    Hmmmmmm ! Been here before.

    I would hazard a guess that whatever has happened to MH307, it’s been in the planning for a couple of years.It’s not a spur of the moment thing.

  274. Some most recent background on the growing Sunni-Shia conflict in malaysia and the Iranian-Malaysian conflict growing.

    Although opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim denies to have Shia roots, he admits to be a follower of Ayatollah Khomeini and that he supported the iranian revolution.
    There are rumours that the pilot of MH370 is from an iranian family and that he is a supporter of Anwar Ibrahim.
    Most recently malaysian Petronas lost billions due to the iranians sanctioning malaysia because of their aggressive anti shia politics.

    Now mix the pilot, ali al hilli and anwar ibrahim into an iranian conspiracy plot versus the malaysian government and malaysian airlines in order to weaken the malaysian anti shia government….
    Does it make sense?






  275. Thanks james

    That is about what malaysian media write regarding ibrahim.
    A pro iranian sunni who is moderate in regards to shia views while he is critical of america and zionism and often ranting the usa. The latter we had often heard regarding the al hillis.
    Better moving that into the al hilli topic???

    However, many international crimes do always fit together and point backwards towards the same people, same families and same companies.

  276. James, In reply to your 7:50 comment, I had just finished replying to a “Jamie” on an another site, guess it stuck, sorry.


    I have questions pertaining a theory I am developing, could use some help. I need to find out if there is any way to find out if the two Iranians traveling on the plane had gone to Africa in the days previous to the plane’s disappearance, also if their middle man, a Mr Ali, had traveled to Africa prior to handing over the passports to the two young me. Also if any of the passengers had traveled to Africa.

    I also tried to find out if the plane itself had been to Africa in the same period of time …

    Nothing longer than a week prior. 7 days at the most

    Can anybody help me, please ?

  277. Just some more info, I already found out that the two young Iranians had traveled to Malaysia from Qatar, not from Iran as many think, I am wondering if perhaps they first went to Africa and then Qatar or if Mr Ali had met them in Qatar after he himself had returned from Africa (should that be the case)

    Perhaps maybe the passports were altered in Africa, say Nigeria for example.

  278. Actually Donald,there could be something in that, do you remember the first description of those guys….they were said to be African & one looked Bolettli [ or similar] the footballer who is black black, now how can the ones we were finally shown be described as such ?

  279. Actually, that is true, I believe that one of the officials said one of the young men looked like some black sports person, but that is not what I am after.

    I want to find out if there is any link whatsoever between the plane, the passengers, the cargo, or Mr Ali .. and Africa.

  280. Donald

    If you check out flightradar24, click on the database.
    From there enter the tail.
    And it’ll give you the history (back a few days only).

  281. James, thank you, I did that but it tells me that all previous flight history for 9M-MRO is not in the database, the message reads:

    “….Sorry, but we could not find flights for specified aircraft in our databases…..:


    I eventually found the link below but there is no information about the planes whereabouts between 7th of March this year and October last year


    I want to know where everybody was in the last 7 days prior to the plane’s disappearance, including the cargo, and yes, I know it is difficult.

    I do have a good theory, but I don’t want to look like an idiot just yet, I need a bit more info before I make a fool of myself and post it :-)

  282. Is the public being played for fools by Abbott and his multi-national aerial and marine search?

  283. I also found out that the flight was to last 5 1/2 hours, adding 2 hours of extra fuel that gave it 7 1/2 hours flying time, but the twists and turns it supposedly took before it headed South and down into the Indian Ocean means it would have lost some 3 hours worth of fuel before it began the journey South. So it could only have flown for 4 1/2 hours meaning it wouldn’t have made it too far down, certainly not the Maldives


    Not being a pilot I suppose some here already know this.

  284. Mary, all I can tell you is that Diego Garcia and Jindalle are part of the nuclear tracking radar network, the most advanced in the world, nothing gets past them, certainly not a giant plane with no transponder switched on. That is impossible.

    And I can’t for the life of me believe that Diego Garcia which is where America’s B52 fleet is based did not detect the plane before it came anywhere near them or if it did, that it did not send interceptors after it.

  285. I don’t know about that Mary, but I do wonder why an aircraft carrier has not gone to search the area,surely that would have saved all this flying to & from to refuel in Perth ?

  286. Donald

    It depends on the power settings (and alt).
    At “cruise” you’re higher and not at full throttles.
    The alternates dictates fuel (and holds). MAS were fined some years ago for declaring a “mayday” when diverted. Their fuel (if stated correctly) seems to be okay.

    As for reaching where it appears to have reached. Again depends on Alt.
    And we don’t know OR may never know (FDR unrecoverable) what that was.

  287. Katie. Me neither, perhaps the whole thing is some sort of diversion? something to keep our minds occupied and not consider other possibilities?

    Are there no carriers or other naval ships in the Indian Ocean already, that’s odd, imagine America and Australia leaving that part of the world unsecured.

  288. James – I’ll take your word for it, I just don’t know, crikey, I’m always running out of fuel in my car because I forget to fill it up.

    All I did was to print a map with the plane’s assumed flight path then used a string to measure the length of travel .. then I stretched the string towards China and it put me somewhere between the Vietnam/China border.

    A silly way of doing it but I knew no other way.

    As for height, I believe planes use a lot of fuel in climbing to altitude then it climbed higher to 44,000 feet then it dove to 29,000 then it lowered again to 19,000 then and then according to all the reports it flew below radar altitude… up and down all over the place, surely that must waste fuel.

    Truth is I’m not too good on this fuel consumption thing

  289. Donald

    Take Off Weight V Take Off Max. How much fuel was tankered. MAS aren’t doing so well and they may get cheaper fuel at KUL. So you take some with you for the return.

    No idea of the SOPs at MAS, but it’s a possibility. (and speculation).

  290. Jamie. all the news, reports and articles I read so far say that the plane was carrying between 7 and 7 1/2 hours worth of fuel

  291. Stop the Jamie thing !

    And that’s about right (I guess).
    Not sure what the “official” MAS line actually is.
    I think it is “to get to Beijing plus reserves”.

  292. !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Israel closes all foreign offices !!!!!!!!!!

    http://northerntruthseeker.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/is-something-huge-is-about-to-happen.html Watch out people.

  293. Hey up !

    They’ve all called press conferences & the Malaysian airlines too have called all family members together…this is it folks….switch on your TV’s,I’m listening to Sky.

  294. James .. sorry, again I have “Jamie” on the other blog, please don’t take it too personal, he’s an old fellow and Katie and I usually frequent his blog, hard to get out of the habit, I’ll try harder :-)

    (not that I’m saying you too are an old fellow …ah, dah, never mind)

    KATIE!!! help

  295. Poor you Donald, yes Jamie the old codger is someone I’m trying to get away from !

    It’s a genuine error James, we are talking about someone on the Telegraph blog……..no offence intended I’m sure of that.

    So what are we waiting for a body has been found or just debris from the plane ?

  296. Israel has closed all its embassies due to a diplomatic work strike by the foreign ministry, mind you it could be a ploy, America has also closed all its embassies in Africa when it suspected a terrorist strike might be about to take place

  297. Katie…

    No idea. Just put on the news (bit of buffering, but clear now) have I heard it right.

    The (all) the relatives are being taken to Oz ?

  298. One hour ago they reported finding some coloured flotsam, who knows.


    Personally I doubt it.

  299. Very odd.

    What’s this…. Press Conf by Aussie PM at 14.00 GMT (01.00 Sydney) ?

    They are saying “new developments”.

  300. James, yes they are being taken to OZ.
    So clearly there’s a definite find.
    Press conference due at 2pm UK time.

    James,why don’t you get yourself an avatar,that way it will be easier to identify you ?

  301. Ah !

    Must be 10pm Perth.
    Think the last aircraft landed half an hour ago.

  302. Katie…

    A white man against a grey background is my avatar.
    Everyone seems to have nicked my idea !

    How do you get an avatar ??

  303. Tim,you would have been better to quote the official news not some cranks biased opinion.

    “(Reuters) – Israeli diplomats launched an unprecedented strike on Sunday, forcing the complete closure of embassies around the world as they escalated a dispute over pay, officials said.

    The industrial action has already threatened to postpone a visit by Pope Francis to Israel planned for May – one of 25 trips by foreign officials affected by a work slowdown the diplomats began on March 5 when wage talks broke down.

    By escalating the action to a full strike – the first by the diplomatic corps since the country’s establishment in 1948 – the diplomats will close all of Israel’s 102 missions abroad, paralysing most diplomatic work with other countries and the United Nations.”


  304. James – That conference was for the PM to announce that China had found new objects that “might” be related, one hour ago they announced that they had located the objects, no further news yet.

    Meanwhile in Malaysia, 3 hours ago the relatives were herded together and moved … to make way for the Formula 1 races


  305. You go here James, http://en.gravatar.com

    You can have as many as you like, but the photo you choose for each email address will be the one which shows when you sign in with that email add.

  306. James
    24 Mar, 2014 – 8:29 am – re. http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2519 interesting source:

    A “Moderate Muslim” – Anwar Ibrahim
    by DR. RACHEL EHRENFELD November 24, 2010

    FamilySecurityMatters.org Contributing Editor Dr. Rachel Ehrenfeld is the Director of the New York-based American Center for Democracy. She is an expert on terrorism and corruption-related topics such as terror financing and narco-terrorism. She has helped to change New York state law, when the Libel Terrorism Protection Act (pdf) was passed. Similar laws have been passed in other U.S. states, and a federal law known as the SPEECH ACT which is due to be signed, follows the same principle – that First Amendment guarantees should protect authors and publishers against foreign libel judgments from countries with poor free speech protections.

    Read more: Family Security Matters http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.7990/pub_detail.asp#ixzz2wt5TKJWm
    Under Creative Commons License: Attribution

  307. 4 minutes ago – Flares have been dropped to mark the objects found in the ocean, the Aussie navy will reach them in about two hours.

    But I looked, the objects must be small because I can see the surface of the water and there is nothing there except the smoke from the flare, in fact I can’t see nothing else

  308. Malaysian Prime Minister to give Press Conference.
    It’s all this “the prime minister of xxxxxxasia” that’s confusing.

  309. Planes are being chartered in preparation to fly relatives to OZ, poor souls ,what a miserable journey that’s going to be. No passengers have survived.

    10 mins to go before announcement.

  310. Dreadful.

  311. Katie, it has to be a hoax, even 25 minutes ago they still didn’t know what the objects were and the ship dispatched to retrieve and examine them will not reach them for 2 more hours yet.


  312. Whaaaaat ?

    Donald I think you are right, all he’s saying is that they will hold a conference tomorrow !

  313. Extraordinary.

    AAIB (UK), using Inmarsat data, calculates that the aircraft crashed into the Southern Indian Ocean.

  314. And the award for most useless press conference goes to………

  315. James, I think you are right about the conference, all it does is to raise the relatives hopes and nothing else.

    I’m off, big storm here and I’ve lost most of my satellite links, I could use a good sleep anyway, back tomorrow.

    PS: My two theories still stand, plane lost near Vietnam or a terrorist plot that originated in Africa. Although I believe the plane crashing near or in Vietnam is the right one

    Shall see tomorrow when I do a better search of the facts. Good night

  316. That hastily convened conference was all about the Malaysians not wanting to lose control !

    The Chinese had found something positive & the Australians also came back with news…still withheld.
    So Once again the Malaysians are not being honest but hanging onto that information until tomorrow. Why ?

  317. Mary
    24 Mar, 2014 – 11:52 am as Official Resident “Loony” (thank you yet again clever James) and so speaking as an expert, I can state unequivocally the answer to your question is “Yes”.

    As has been pointed out many times an aircraft “falling” or descending from 35K leaves a distinctive radar trace. We are told this didn’t happen in this case, but that radar contact was simply lost and the plane “disappeared”. If reliable this would offer only two explanations, other than it being out of radar range which has not been suggested, which is the plane exploded and disintegrated at its cruising height or radar coverage was otherwise interfered with which is possible but only with highly sophisticated military assets.

    Clearly Malaysian authorities either believed the plane had ditched off Vietnam, or wanted everyone to believe it had ditched there, or they wouldn’t have initiated extensive search at that location and maintained it for several days. The absence of any sea debris supported the later story.

    So now the question is at what point and why did they change their opinion that the plane had not crashed there, and critically did they maintain their earlier opinion even when in possession of information that the plane had survived and “merely” changed course?

    It may be assumed, even by fools such as me, that a plane on a totally unscheduled route, carrying out crazy manoeuvres (up to 35K; climb to 45K; roughly a 270 degree change in direction; dropping to 5K; then a further 270 degree change north or south) to name but a few, would attract attention, particularly when said MH370 had broken all the rules and turned off coms and transponder. From that point everyone civil and military would be “on their toes”, looking for it.

    Two days elapse before the information available to the state is made available to the public, and area of search is moved. Of course the new search would only be any good if the plane had ditched, but as it had survived the first alleged catastrophic incident this had become far less likely, and there was no hard evidence to support it. Indeed quite the opposite: the Seychelles sighting and satellite “pings” pointed to it still being up at least FIVE HOURS after it was said to have “disappeared”.

    Clearly this presents a major difficulty for who ever was in charge of the thing – terrorist or state – because they now have two options. Either they question the reliability of the “pings” as indicator of plane’s survival or they have to invent a different ditch scenario. Because of the time-frame this has to be in some remote area.

    It amuses me that the experienced pilot “James”, so full of technical jargon and know-how, presumably to impress the gullible like me, goes along so easily with a course off Australia. The alternative north west would have taken it over land masses and radar of the countries involved and with no trace it has to be ruled out doesn’t it? So the barren wastes of the southern ocean it has to be then with not a snowball chance in hell of anything being found. Problem solved!

    He seems to believe a suicide mission is the most likely. Have you ever heard of a suicide taking so long without a gesture, without a statement or demand. The idea is quite preposterous. As he says if this was merely a death dive by the captain why all the complicated survival anti-detection flying and for so long?

    So back to the initial conundrum of who took control of the plane and how. To do all that highly strange manoeuvring the auto pilot would have to have been disengaged for sure. This would either require sophisticated piloting or sophisticated computer takeover not to mention the inbuilt systems we have discussed to prevent it.

    If the former, it rules out any hypothesis of pilots physically or mentally disabled in any way. They would have to be top of their game throughout. If they were in control it indicates malign intent or why would they not have raised the alarm? Or were they following pre-planned instructions imposed by government diktat? Neither of these seems likely.

    So by a process of elimination, however unlikely it seems, the remaining option becomes the only alternative, and also by extension that the search in the Southern Ocean is similarly a waste of time and money. Needless to say all news outlets concentrate on it, and merely replicate the official output, without a question or challenge. This uses up time, always helpful as other news events eventually take over top spot, and distracts attention from more sensible and searching questions. It is what we have come to expect isn’t it?

  318. Tim V’s comment and the one following are relevant in the light of the Malaysian PM’s statement today. Details of Inmarsat.


    Is there the smell of rotten fish in the air???

  319. @Donald
    24 Mar, 2014 – 11:58 am

    I think many have thought that right from the moment Diego Garcia first appeared in the narrative.

  320. Katie
    24 Mar, 2014 – 1:30 pm “Crank” he may be. (I love how these terms of endearment appear) Now to be somewhat more objective do you honestly think that Israel would allow ALL of its diplomatic missions to be shut down by an industrial dispute????????? I would say that was very naive of you if you did. First are all levels of diplomats poorly recompensed? Are they all of one mind? Are they all in the union? Is it a closed shop? Faced with complete closure don’t you think the government would have done something about it? Could they not provide skeleton staffing (no pun intended) Who is maintaining ambassadorial and consular communications? How long will they all be closed?

    Israel has a history of prescient withdrawal of its own from calamitous situations but then they always did have a direct line to God.

  321. Tim, have you missed this mornings news ?

    They have almost certainly found the plane….. in the southern ocean.

  322. MAS statement

    “On behalf of all of us at Malaysia Airlines and all Malaysians, our prayers go out to all the loved ones of the 226 passengers and of our 13 friends and colleagues at this enormously painful time”.

    Pax manifest



    226 ? or 227 ? souls onboard

  323. James,did you see the announcement was sent to all the family members VIA TEXT & in English !

    What sort of government would be that insensitive ?
    Answer; the Malaysian Government.

  324. Something well dodgy when ZBC get Frank ‘I was there’ Gardner on to elaborate.

  325. straw44berry

    24 Mar, 2014 - 4:03 pm

    The Indian Ocean Gyre collects debris and rotates anti-clockwise, so for the debris to be where it is found. The crash site, to my mind must be 24 (hours) x 4 4 mph (usually winds here are far stronger than this) x 14 days = Approx 1400 miles west of its current location. This wouldnt be on the arc.

    Think of the cost, we need closure, we need to clear the hotels and make the news about the Formula 1 Grand Prix in Kuala Lumpur this weekend.

  326. The “loving” MAS !
    Text to the families. It’s unbelievable. It’s actually sick.

    The reports initially were that ONE “Mohd Khairu” was onbaord. He was a Flight Mechanic (the media called him a Flight Engineer ?)working in private aviation.
    No links to B777′s.

    The MAS statement refers to 226 pax and 13 crew.
    So ONE “pax” has now become “crew”.

    I have been informed that this ONE pax was a “Flight Engineer” for MAS.
    Do MAS operate B747-100′s ???

    Whatever it is, we appear to have….
    2 pilots, 10 F/A’s ….and 1 “Flight Engineer”.

  327. Straw.

    I totally agree about the cost , especially as Malaysian airlines are in financial trouble, this must a great strain on them.

  328. TWO things that strike me….

    ONE there now appears to be a “MAS employee” onboard.
    Nothing strange about a “crew ticket” or even a “deadhead”.
    But in these circumstances ?

    TWO they have “confirmed” that the aircraft ended up in the South Indian Ocean, thus negotiating the “air defence” of both Indonesia (mainland) and India (Campbell Bay, Nicobar)….and they didn’t “see” DH370 ?

  329. and one little observation for Chevaline watchers: did you notice that when the spokeswoman for the Malaysian government was asked why she thought the families of Chinese missing, suspected her Government was dissembling, she replied that she wished to be diplomatic but it was probably down to the expectations of the Chinese to their own government, and expecting no better from more liberal nations like her own. It was down to “cultural misunderstandings” – precisely the same excuse for lack of progress proffered by the French Prosecutor.

  330. Katie
    24 Mar, 2014 – 3:10 pm No haven’t heard/seen. When I do I feel strangely sea sick. First question is the information reliable? Second question what have they found and is it undeniably from MH370. Third question how did it get there?

    I have not forgotten the un-scorched passport of said 9/11 hijacker “found” on New York street. Nor for that matter the rifle left behind in the Dallas Book Depository.

  331. For heavens sake Tim, read the comments above.

    Then you should be able to deduce that’s why all the relatives are being flown or invited to fly Australia.

  332. Katie….

    I just “flash by”. It is far easier.
    He doesn’t “debate” or even “argue with passion”.

    One would say, he’s just a lone fart…ranting !

  333. @Jon

    Could you just delete comments by the poster TimV.
    Here is a discussion with regard to Malaysian Airlines Flight MH370.

    If you read back, this poster appears to be unwilling/unable to discuss this topic.

  334. Tim V 2;53pm. You are a bit unfair to James on the “suicide” idea. He did not actually maintain it’s true and raises the same doubts as you do, and as we all do. Six hours to Suicide – that’d be one for the psychologists books all right. The strangest profile of a suicide, ever.

    I ask the same question too, as many commenters in The Guardian have – a pilot executes complicated maneouvers and is in full control of the plane up to and including a sharp turn south (that’s the 182 deg james showed on the map). that pretty much rules out the hypoxia theory (cf THe Wire) theory of electrical fire. So what’s left, if we are to believe the plane made that route? only a crazy suicide, and that is indeed – crazy.

    I raised the possibility above that we should not be so ready and willing to believe that the inmarsat data provided were god’s truth. After all, if we are willing to doubt any and all, that should be thrown into the ‘any” pot.

    And along with everybody else, I am also struck by the strange non-availability 9to the public at least) of any data from US satellites and/or radars. beggers credulity alright. Why the strange reticence, one might ask?

  335. Marlin, yes, I believe there has to be collusion here on the route the plane took.
    Yes I think we should believe MH370 has been found in the southern ocean because that’s where it was finally flown, to be ditched.

    I shall be very interested to hear if they find any bodies there though.

  336. Marlin and Katie

    Oddly (and this is at “cruise altitude” in the last 15 years there have been “more” suicide attempts than tech failures. (at “cruise”)

    One airline pilot was “released from duty” because he admitted tendencies. In one flight he actually relieved himself as he wanted to “push the stick forward”.

    It is “serious stuff”. Most pilots (Company Pilots) will not admit this.
    I am single. I fly a GV (small private jet) and work for a single employer (holding three crews *2x pilots (both Captains) and 2x F/A’s.
    That is a “hell of a lot” for one aircraft. (Duty and relief with one crew “off”).

    He is Arab. I consider myself “very lucky indeed”.
    Company politics in the “Big Airlines” is MASSIVE.

  337. katie, the Indian ocean – that’s where the US said the plane was to be found way back when. That’s probably just after it was ditched there, as you say. I think though that perhaps they had run into some issues with the “ditching”.

    Don’t know about the bodies. That’d be kind of ghoulish.

    If what some of us suspect is true (a deliberate diversion by whoever, for whatever, with passengers as “unfortunate” collaterals) then it marks a major escalation in the PTYB’s brazeness. They must be feeling pretty confident, by now.

    Perhaps that is one of the [only] two connections to Chevaline – an increasing trajectory of brazeness, and the cowing of the media. The PTB’s basically stopped fearing the “peasants”. they got them well under control now (or so they believe) using the subservient media mouthpieces. The overall trajectory is hard not to notice. The complete subjugation of the western media on the MH370 case is really hard not to notice, – and that includes just about ALL the major western media outlets. It’s like all the reporters all over the western MSM stopped being curious en-masse and agreed not to ask any difficult questions.

    Some of these ‘difficult’ questions are asked in forums like this and the comment sections of various papers. In fact, the disconnect between readers and headline writers has become a canyon. Clearly, people here on this thread are not the only ones disbelieving the official line. We only differ in how much imagination we are willing to use in offering alternative theories.

    As for myself, I am getting a bit suspicious of those all-too-definitive Inmarsat data, which now conclusively place the plane in that remote part of the Indian ocean, well away from any potential landing spots. How convenient!

  338. And Marlin

    “Six hours to Suicide” is a real concern.

    Either he was “really mad”. Or it’s “terrorism we have not seen before”.

    If the latter, there needs to be a BIG rethink on “what is going on in the world”, because the PLO, the IRA, Al Q, et al ….has just been “side stepped” with the “everyone with a grudge against something” brigade !

  339. Ben

    Its simples !

    Chevaline stays on Chevaline (until linked).
    Is that a problem ?

  340. I see “james” is up to his old tricks. I always regard his personal accolade that I must have got something right. He was exactly the same on the Chevaline thread. He always tries mockery, then abuse, then attempts at censoring, not extending to himself of course. So so OBVIOUS.

  341. Marlin yes, I find it extraordinary that ‘journalists’ were so compliant with the official story, not one of them followed up on the Maldive sightings , but more importantly nor did they ask why nothing was picked up on radar by the biggest & most sophisticated observation post in the area, Diego Garcia.
    That is just farcical

    Yes they will eventually, maybe, but what they’ve done is given DG time to settle & become an old story.

  342. Wow… that’s great Ben.
    And “what” to this conversation, would you like to add ?

    Beware Ben. I like debate. But with idiots…. I bite !

    [Ben's comment has been deleted. This reply will be removed soon as it is now "orphaned"]

  343. Ah Tim… then (my advice) why not trickle off to the Chavaline debate ?

    You just love being abused ?

  344. I think the dearth of facts should initiate a discussion of ‘cui bono’ rather than the verbose minutiae of what species of flea leaves droppings in rat-scat.

    There is a lot of air for historical musings of past practices in mysterious events which can be speculated upon. It beats the distractions emerging from those salient facts we are allowed to see.

  345. The biggest benefactor of the Malaysia crash is the USA as it gave black eyes to Kuala Lumpur and Beijing while it is not suspected of being behind the sabotage, like it was not when the electrical system of Asiana Flight 214 was knocked out by fires in the passenger cabin before the landing which the pilots miraculously prevented from becoming another massacre which would have given Beijung an even bigger black eye.

  346. How about the Freescale 20? Key persons involved in tech (electronic warfare) on their way to China.

    The murder of hundreds to cover the murder of a few targets, like the Beirut CIA chief who just happened to be on his way to the US, dies in the mysterious Lockerbie case.

  347. Trowbridge/Ben, I wholeheartedly concur.
    I have said from the beginning that in my view this is an American hit.

  348. The loss of the Freescale 20 was the biggest personal losses to Kuala Lumpur and Beijing, and there might have been even more important losses to the two countries.

    But the loss of any Chinese or Malays are a big loss to the two countries because their relatives are going bananas now over what happened to their loved one.

    And mentioning the downing of the Pan Am flight is quite apt, but it was the result of dire differences within the CIA where its investigators of Iran-Contra dealings in Lebanon, especially that of Matt Gannon, ran afoul of Syrian arms dealer al-Kassar who managed to get a briefcase bomb on board at Frankfurt to stop them.

  349. @Marlin 24 Mar, 2014 – 4:57 pm
    “I am also struck by the strange non-availability (to the public at least) of any data from US satellites and/or radars. beggers credulity alright. Why the strange reticence, one might ask?

    The reason the search shifted to the southern end of the Inmarsat arc — the current location — is given by the Malaysians as:
    – The hunt spreads west to the Indian Ocean after the White House cites unspecified “new information” that the jet may have flown on after losing contact.”

    One theory is the US couldn’t release how they knew this without revealing the capabilities of their spying, especially to the Chinese.

    Alternate theory would be China and even France (quelle horreur) have better satellites.

  350. Trowbridge;

    Yes, they are different in intent, but not in scale or strategy. My only point is terrorism is usually the default mechanism for the public, and key people exploit that superficial explanation.

    Even with Lockerbie we had evidence, on the ground. Perhaps that strategy of leaving any evidence, at all, is cutting it too thin for promulgating the narrative, but they certainly only see it as a bother to deal with conspiracy theorists. They have better things to do than deal with evidentiary questions.

  351. NR -

    “One theory is the US couldn’t release how they knew this without revealing the capabilities of their spying, especially to the Chinese.”

    I can’t imagine that the Chinese don’t have a pretty good idea what those capabilities are, and where they are located. I see no harm to American intel in revealing that they at least can see ‘objects’ floating in the ocean like the chinese and french can. Especially if the french – the question is then – who can’t?

    “Alternate theory would be China and even France (quelle horreur) have better satellites.”

    now that would be something, wouldn’t it? the waste in the US aerospace industry is legendary – may be that wehereas they treat spy satellites like corporate welfare, someone forgot to put a few more up that can stare down the indian ocean?

    And then, there’s that other option Katie brings up and I am beginning to lean towards – an American hit, followed by a deliberate “ditch”. In this scenario, America is, alas, quite the competent agency, though alas to nefarious ends and with little concern for some “collaterals”.

    How will we know which is which?

    Simple – just like Chevaline – watch for the cover-up details as they emerge in the next few weeks. Look for subtle contradictions, walk-backs and bizarre psychological theories of pilot suicide. Or even more bizzare theories of the automatic aircraft controls suddenly becoming sentient (that would be the first indication of a breach of Weil’s singularity) and doing a little ‘demonstration”.

    Just in case, let’s not forget to be nice to the “machines”.

  352. Couple more items I find interesting among the non-reactions and non-disclosures:

    There were a couple of Ukrainian passengers on the flight, and one Russian, I believe. Bluebird, brought up some interesting background about two of them. I especially liked the Chabbad jewish follower who was into deep sea diving. These details were given up-thread, i believe.

    Strangely, we hear nothing from Russia either – or Ukraine 9though there were some condolences from Israel’s Chabad community).

    I think everyone should go and look at that flight map provided by james – I think he is right about the likelihood of that 182 deg turn. The plane must have carefully skirted the indonesian air force radars, in which case, there’s no choice but to see intent in that sharp southerly turn.

    Unless that turn never happened…..despite whatever we are being told about “pings”.

  353. PS – reading my comment over I see i’m beginning to sound and even write like James. Now that’s a concern….

    May be some cross interference/information leakage in the Matrix?

  354. “I can’t imagine that the Chinese don’t have a pretty good idea what those capabilities are, and where they are located. I see no harm to American intel in revealing that they at least can see ‘objects’ floating in the ocean like the chinese and french can. Especially if the french – the question is then – who can’t?”

    The worst thing (in their estimation) is to verify what is only an educated guess.

  355. Did anyone notice this person lurking in the background at the endless ‘press conferences’ at which little info was provided?

    Dr. Hugh Dunleavy serves as Head of Network, Alliance & Planning and Director of Commercial at Malaysian Airline System Bhd. Dr. Dunleavy served as Executive Vice President of Strategy and Planning at Westjet Airlines Ltd. since November 1, 2009. Mr. Dunleavy served as an Executive Vice President of Commercial Distribution of Westjet Airlines Ltd. since September 7, 2006. He joined WestJet in January 2005 as Vice-President, Revenue. He quickly introduced changes to both the revenue management and network planning strategies resulting in significant improvements to WestJet’s financial performance indicators including an increase in load factor, yield and revenue per available seat mile. He has been working in the airline industry for over 25 years and has a solid reputation for delivering high quality results. Prior to joining WestJet, he held senior management positions at PROS (Passenger Revenue Optimization Systems), Star Alliance and Lufthansa Systems. Ever the academic, Mr. Dunleavy has also held the position of Professor of Operations Management at the John Molson School of Business at Concordia University. He has a Ph.D. in Theoretical Physics with an undergraduate degree in Physics from Sheffield University in the UK.


    It is anyway grossly insensitive of Malaysia to have Ecclestone’s junk roaring around a race track.

    Ecclestone – now there’s another story.

    Bernie Ecclestone wins damages case after F1 deal bribe
    Bernie Ecclestone: “If I was unreliable… I’m lucky to be as successful as we have been”

    A High Court judge has rejected an £85m damages claim against Formula 1 boss Bernie Ecclestone but said he did pay a bribe over a sale of F1 shares.

    Mr Justice Newey found Mr Ecclestone had made a “corrupt” deal. And he had been not “reliable or truthful” during the case in London, the judge added.

    But he said there had been no financial loss to German media group Constantin Medien. It said it would appeal.

    Mr Ecclestone, 83, said he was “relieved” at the ruling.

    “I find it impossible to regard him as a reliable or truthful witness”
    Mr Justice Newey High Court

    Mr Ecclestone is the chief executive of F1, and has ruled the sport for almost four decades.


  356. NR

    Find way to send me your skpe and I will explain…..
    A. Why the US has said that as….

    1 they are mad
    2 they don’t understand “radar” (both Prim and Sec).

  357. Marlin, whilst I believe the US were the perpetrators I’m struggling with their motive.

    Was it to ‘show’ the Chinese what their capable of.
    Or because they didn’t want the Freescale passengers in Beijing ,possibly because they knew too much?
    Or,had they found that some of them were indulging in espionage & passing secrets to China ?
    Or was it purely an experiment with their new remote technology that went wrong ?

    Remember they had just announced a breakthrough .

    ‘AUSTIN, Texas–(BUSINESS WIRE)–Mar. 3, 2014– Freescale Semiconductor (NYSE: FSL), a global leader in radio frequency (RF) power transistors, today announced the availability of 11 new commercial RF power LDMOS products that can meet the requirements of U.S. defines electronics applications.’

    Was it the same principle as killing off the Iranian scientists ?

  358. Is this Jeremy Clarkson individual for real? A psychopath.


    It’s well past the time for the BBC to stop enriching him.

  359. Katie
    24 Mar, 2014 – 4:46 pm to date I seen nothing more than “white objects”, some dimensional stuff and wooden pallets. I haven’t heard a thing that any of this is definitely from or part of MH370. In fact I am rather surprised on such scant evidence the relatives have been told everyone is dead. They may be, but not necessarily in the way that is being promoted. We have had far too much proven deceit regarding mass murder in the last decade to accept anything at face value without convincing evidence. There are millions of good Americans leading good lives, but do I trust the American Government any longer in such matters. No. Other governments must be judged on their merits. You are clearly more easily persuaded Katie which is fine by me. Its every man (or woman) for themselves. But what convinces you that the debris is definitely MH370?

  360. Tim

    We have to wait and see.

    But if they are right (and I believe they are) can you eat a hat online.
    Your “evidence” is almost “all” speculation”. (“It wasn’t this…no because”)

    May I remind you that TWO HUNDRED AND TWENTY SIX people died that night.
    They no longer exist.
    Some of us are trying to find out “why” this event happened.

    Thank God I do not know you Tim….as you’d find Six Foot Three of Northern Irish Jewish fist in your smiley f***wit face

  361. Tim.

    A number of things.

    1. The Australian pilots have come back each day & given the media negative information on their failure to find debris.
    Today they came back in a very different mood & would not talk to anyone, the Captain went straight into debriefing, a sub was sent out to say,more would be explained tomorrow.
    2,A hasty press conference was called when one had already been given
    3, The Chinese have seen debris, not via satellite but eyes on & are not allowed to speak.
    4, All the relatives are to be flown by chartered planes to Oz, tomorrow.
    5, The Malaysian PM has said definitively the plane came to its end in the Southern corridor.
    6. No survivors.
    7,Too many reports of varied shapes & sizes in debris spotted for it to be flotsam.
    8, A ship will be there within hours to pick up the first pieces of debris

    Nobody needs to be convinced, we shall all have to wait

  362. Crikey James……….. that’s a lot to get into the cockpit……………..LoL !!!

  363. Katie

    So correct. You said “Nobody needs to be convinced, we shall all have to wait”.

    “Tim” has no technical competence to determine any causal factors whatsoever.

  364. Katie…

    It is indeed.
    By that I mean “one uniform” and 6 shirts (plus casual wear) is that what you mean !

    gulfstreams are “made by Americans” that’s what they tell me. And they fit us “Oirish”…but then again “we’re all Oirish” really !

  365. James, I was thinking of 6ft 3 folding into such a small space.

  366. Katie…

    We have do have a “crew rest” area !
    And as a “big” private jet….there is room.

    And two F/A’s…. and room for them to “put make up on” and “chitter chat”.

    Pax wise… Max 4 !

  367. Marlin
    24 Mar, 2014 – 4:57 pm “Not to hard on James” is a bit rich compared to what I consider to be the unfair invective he has poured on me. Just the two entries up are sufficient proof I would say. He now opines “He doesn’t “debate” or even “argue with passion” both of which I would say were transparently not the case. “One would say, he’s just a lone fart…ranting !” he adds.

    If it is the same James he has “previous” going right back, pouring scorn when valid points have been made. I have always regarded his role in these rooms with a great deal of reservation. For that reason I have no desire to engage with him.

    Both here and previously on the Chevaline thread, of which he obviously prefers not to be reminded, he has used his technical knowledge of aeroplanes and flight to confuse rather than clarify and been notable in appearing to challenge yet always coming down on the side of the “official version”. That is just my perception but I think it is supported on this thread as it was on the last.

    He virtually never engages with any of the concrete points I have made, either to support or disagree with them. Instead, despite endless entries himself, he labels mine “rants” and seeks to get them deleted. He adopted similar tactics on Chevaline until the absence of contributors obviously persuaded him it was no longer a major threat and worth his time. He kept on Maralyn’s site I believe after they ganged up against me on there, doing what he’s doing here. I have been proved largely right regarding Chevaline. I might be right on this one. Time will tell (or may not) but clearly its not a line he wants to hear.

    Perhaps my assessment is just coloured by the personal nature of his attacks on me, although I am certainly not the first he has attacked vituperatively and thereby driven off. It is an obvious strategy. Where it is just a reflection of an aggressive, combative and profane character or something more sinister I wouldn’t like to say. However even a brief review of early contributions will show I am not exaggerating.

    I have never ever suggested that contributors were banned, unless breaching rules of decency, assuming people could easily skip what they didn’t want to read. The fact that he resorts to that tactic says it all.

  368. Just a reminder here.

    Flight MH370 Mystery. Diego Garcia Suspended All Flights On March 8th for 72 hrs.

    ‘Notice they have completely erased all posts between March 6th, and March 9th. There is some very weird stuff going on down in creepy Diego Garcia, a place where the US operates completely independant of the constitution.
    Edit to add, here is a link to the Diego Garcia Passenger facebook page with the March 8th flight schedule. Notice all other flight schedules throughout the month all had several flights schedules. The fact that no flight were scheduled for 3 days during the time MH370 went missing, all maintenance crew most likely were off on leave.
    Great time to sneak in an aircraft.’



  369. Underground Hangars @ DG.

  370. TimV; I have seen many ‘rational’ experts steer the conversation toward points of detail.

    Engineers/pilots often have the tendency toward myopia; failing to see he forest for the trees and ferns

  371. Tim

    “He virtually never engages with any of the concrete points I have made, either to support or disagree with them”

    I stopped there as I was laughing.

    A. The “concrete points I have made” You flatter yourself in delusion.

    B. He “never engages”. How could I. You are deluded.

    C Nor does he “either to support or disagree with them”

    Now I can rip all your “posts” apart, if you so wish ?
    But you will sleep a very “aware” and yet “unhappy” man/or woman, I know not what gender you are.

    If you wish to “engage”with your “self perceived” wit or “wisdom” (so sadly lacking), then do continue.

    I do laugh at your “James is this or James is that”. The truth, be it not, is you have little idea what “James” is ?

    Continue dear chap. As I will continue to tear you apart.
    Enjoy….as it is my pleasure.

    Timothy…..over to you. To “try” ! Xxxx
    I await. I am more than happy.

  372. Tim V (and also James). FWIW, I seriously disapprove of any and all personal attacks on other posters, no matter how annoyed one is by their posting. I’ve seen posts from people I had serious issues with, sometimes because they were beyond the pale, or off to never never land, or just too accusatory or maligning in tone. Yet, even when there are posters that in the past raised serious issues due to some nasty comment or other, I am willing enough to start afresh when their posts give good reason to do so. At least that’s my approach.

    I think it is silly for people who will likely never have or will know each other in person to allow themselves to become overly riled up due to disagreement about events or interpretations or manner of presentation. None of us know who is posting here for what reason other than what they themselves choose to reveal. Some may have agendas we know nothing about and some just may appear as if they have an agenda. Some are more prone to personalizing or emotionalizing responses, others stay more aloof. And many just want to express their thoughts without engaging further.

    My one concern is to keep the forum both engaging and open to different takes. james has contributed some interesting insights from his flying experience which come in handy when discussing a “disappearing aircraft”. Tim V contributed not a few interesting approaches and analysis of possibilities – which are of definite interest to those inclined to go in depth into speculations when facts are scarce. I see no reason individuals cannot just ignore that which does not engage them and address those comments that do.

    Another example – I did not always agree with katie on some things in the past 9especially concerning Chevaline). but here i find myself in agreement on a few things. may be in the future opinions/approaches will diverge again. So what? it’s only an online forum – any of us can disappear tomorrow with none the wiser, right?

    The only thing I may resent BTW, is if it turns out some get paid to post while I don’t. now that would be annoying, kind of. hopefully I’ll never know.

    And Tim V, if you could, please just move on. There are plenty of serious shenanigans going on in the world right now, many perpetrated by evil neocons, resulting in untold loss of life and civilization. And many more are being planned as we speak. In light of that, a few onlinespats don’t matter a whole lot, do they?

  373. …and after 5 paragraphs (my Lord he has learnt to use paragraphs now) in jumps lovely Ben.

    Jump in Ben, I will try to amuse.

    Are use “engineers and pilots” fail to see the wood for the trees !

    Yet…we DO actually give our “professional” view. Bad as it maybe, we try…and your profession dare I ask ?

    Cake Maker ? Butcher ? A layer of bricks ?
    All noble professions. Yet you do not state “from where” you enlightened views come from ? Strange !

    At least “I” am proud of what I have done
    ….the money helps to, but that’s a “given”. !Ho Ho !

  374. Ben 9.52 pm

    The underground hangars @ DG are huge enough to conceal B-52 bombers which are 49 metres long with a 56 metre wingspan.


    However, a Boeing 777-200ER is 63.7 metres long with a 60.9 metres wingspan.


    So maybe, probably big enough but not necessarily so.

  375. Marlin…..

    I tried.

    NR (respected) and others joined in the debate.

    Katie inited her friend along.

    Then Ken Sore(that’s as far as I get with him) started his “odd rants”.

    Then along came Tim (no experience, but just wants to “say his bit”). WHY !

    So this thread is ruined ! Well done Ken and Tim ! (and Ben)

    No “f*cking idea” but they’ll say it anyway !
    Still…. I’ll now close my “ideas”…and for the “hell of it” take the p*ss out of Tim ! 14 days off. Why not !

  376. James
    24 Mar, 2014 – 5:35 pm says: “Either he was “really mad”. Or it’s “terrorism we have not seen before”. If the latter, there needs to be a BIG rethink on “what is going on in the world”, because the PLO, the IRA, Al Q, et al ….has just been “side stepped” with the “everyone with a grudge against something” brigade!”

    Clearly no other options being considered.

  377. 10.23pm Tim

    You ask a question ! “clearly no others considered” ?

    Erm….. I try to do this as simply as possible for you

    Many years ago….
    The people in the big towns
    Were only effected by the news they saw
    Now as the world “got bigger”
    The people in the big towns have to think a bit harder.
    Sometimes the people in the big towns …onlt saw the big town they lived in
    But as the people grew they realised there was many big towns….

    Are you a “fruit cake” Tim ?

  378. katie 9:47 pm. Thanks for that link on DG flight manifest. That’s really more coincidence than some of us are willing to believe.

    I’l go back to the link on that flight path provided by james, which I think is quite revealing. Indeed, given the need to skirt the indonesian and Indian radars, the flight direction just before the turn south makes practically a beeline to DG. This trajectory, I believe was drawn independent of the “pings” i assume – other than that final position, supposedly at 7;11am.

    I’ll reiterate what I said earlier – we cannot totally rely on what Inmarsat data is provided to us, since the company is not exactly independent of other entities. Neither is MA. neither is Australia.

    But here’s the thing – we still need a good theory for how the aircraft could get to DG, who would fly it there (pilot, hijacking, remote, etc). If it did fly there first, it wouldn’t be so difficult to prevail upon Inmarsat to release a few ‘additional” pings, or alter the ones they have. certainly not so difficult to add “new” analysis as part of the cover-up. It appears the aircraft may have had just enough fuel to get to DG, assuming not too much was wasted in the various manoeuvers on route. Or, it could have refueled on the way somewhere?

    With this theory, it is easy enough to imagine flying the craft to the final resting place in the ocean or perhaps just selected parts thereof? no idea what happened to the passengers in this scenario or the crew. Way too morbid to contemplate though i doubt any are alive.

    Of course, like everyone else i have no idea what the motive could be. Could be the gold, as BB says or the FS passengers or something else we have no clue about. In the meantime, let’s watch to see how the cover-up spin is going and their feeble attempts to somehow mollify the relatives.

    One more thing – China. Something tells me they were not quite on whatever happened. If they are the injured party in all this there’s bound to be repercussions.

  379. “Ever since Putin clamped down on the Oligarchs…..”

    I do LOVE how Kenneth (what a name) starts a post.
    Straight in there with “bollocks”.

    And still posting an avatar of a dead guy ! Incredible people let him do it.

    I may get an avatar of a dying Kenya HIV invested mother. Just to keep up the “oddness” of everything.

  380. Marlin

    My “last” post on logic (then I’m just going to take the p*ss out of Tim !) so please listen….

    This may have been the act of a suicidal man.
    There is no proof of this. There is only circumstantial evidence.

    Someone flew that a/c.
    Someone knew the waypoints around Indonesia
    Someone was knowledgeable enough to get behind another flight at VAMPI

    This effects YOU !
    If someone was radicalised enough (recall the “beheading” in the UK) then MH370 has changed everything.

    I “hope” it was a mad pilot. I “think” it was a radicalised one.
    Look all you like at “mad America” they are after all crackers.
    …but understand, the world has most surely “changed”.

  381. James,

    If you were the ‘pilot’:-
    a) Captain Zaharie
    b) First Officer Fariq, total flying hours 2700, ?? hrs on a 777-200ER
    c) Hijacker – maybe engineer/dead-header

    Which of these would fly to Diego Garcia by overflying low over the Maldives and then heading a course for DG, about 650 miles away.

    Using up more fuel by flying low over the Maldives seems a big risk unless your earlier suggestion that Malaysian Airlines were trying to save money, but if using Visual Flight Rules necessary.

  382. Sraw….

    I’ll look. Hold on.

  383. James
    24 Mar, 2014 – 8:51 pm You say: “But if they are right (and I believe they are) can you eat a hat on line. Your “evidence” is almost “all” speculation”. (“It wasn’t this…no because”) May I remind you that TWO HUNDRED AND TWENTY SIX people died that night.They no longer exist. Some of us are trying to find out “why” this event happened. Thank God I do not know you Tim….as you’d find Six Foot Three of Northern Irish Jewish fist in your smiley f***wit face”.

    What a combination of self-congratulatory, condescending, self-righteous, threatening machismo? Blatently, it and earlier remarks are also very offensive and contrary to what is expected of us here. I think it says all we need to know about the character behind the name. Thank god I don’t fly “James Airlines”.

  384. Last leg is direct in.

    Maldives would be a “way out” hold.
    Impossible. Madness.

    You could hold south. No one would see you. But little point

    You could go straight in (Max landing weight no issue)
    It’s 1560 nm from waypoint NOPEK

    Total flight time (from last known) just of 5hrs

  385. Thanks James

    I dont know what to think now. The U-turn shown on this link suggests to me a fight in the cockpit:-


  386. Timothy

    Your getting excited ! Me self-righteous !
    Come on now… have you not plagiarised enough peoples comment ?

    Timothy, I am not weak you see (I guess you are). Original thought is easy for me.
    But you know (I don’t need to say this) you are.
    Your deeds speak well.

    It’s okay. Some people like you are like that.
    I just like to point it out. Maybe because I see a “weak link a the chain” and feel obliged to point it out.

    One question… why did you come “here” and start “ranting” ?
    Craig has other forums open. You could have gone there ?

    Odd don’t you think ? Safety maybe. You’d feel “accepted” ?
    Freud would have a “field day” with you !

  387. Straw

    Flight Plan at SkyVector.com

    Let me kno if you can see it.
    That’s GC

    Which is pretty much as DI has it

  388. Hardly a day goes by without condescension. It is part of the price we pay for anonymous commentary. As a retired journalist I’ve discovered that objective inquiry leads one down the rabbit hole faster than Alex Jones can pontificate.

  389. Maybe the reason to fly low over the Maldives is to use a mobile if the comms are out in the aircraft.

    Lots of ‘ifs’ here but if those witnesses are to be believed.

  390. James,

    I dont get the flight plan shown. I think I have seen it copied with route showing just to the NW of Sri Lanka.

  391. “As a retired journalist I’ve discovered that objective inquiry…”

    1. journalist

    2. objective inquiry

    You are kidding me ????? Two “statements” that seldom go together.

    Pass me another “Gin and egg” !

  392. Straw

    North West of Sri Lanka ?

    No one knows (the Indians aren’t saying) but that is way out.

    BUT there was a flight that night (168 Emirates ?) that would have followed that route.

    Need to check for an EK number.

  393. Katie
    24 Mar, 2014 – 8:51 pm – Thanks for fleshing it out a bit. I watched BBC news tonight and the correspondent in Australia stated that there was nothing concrete at the moment to link debris with plane. If correct I hold by my opinion that it seems premature to announce everyone is dead. Maybe they have better info. than the BBC. We can’t know can we? It may well prove it is the remains of the plane but not until the bits have been retrieved will it be established. If it is the location of where it ditched from 35 000 ft there will still be many questions to answer, principal among them how it was possible for a plane to fly for at least 5 hrs, after the alarm was raised, on an unscheduled unusual course, without being detected on any of the radars operating in the area, or space assets, or intercepted by fighter aircraft. If nothing else it will prove to be a case study in awac ineffectiveness that should worry any nation thinking it is protected from air attack.

    Then there is the problem with the auto pilot. If proved it was on that southerly track, was it on auto pilot or not. The point being it must have been first over-ridden to do the strange manoeuvres. Was this something that could be executed by the pilot? We are told the auto pilot was fool proof. Is that Boeing’s position or isn’t it? If it is, and it didn’t ditch in the Gulf of Thailand as they obviously wanted everyone to believe, (they even had huge oil slicks there) the only explanation is some other hi-tech/military explanation. The pilots were unable to communicate. If they were in a plane they were unable to control, what could they or the passengers do but become passive victims dependant on whatever fate had been determined for them?

  394. I think its SIA68 Singapore – Dubai that was at FL300, 500′ higher than MH370 for that leg

  395. Marlin
    24 Mar, 2014 – 10:10 pm I have always tried to be polite and non-personal on here and elsewhere. I agree with you completely. I would only say it is always easier to remain dispassionate when you are not the one being targeted by insults and threats, which even in the blogosphere are still disturbing. I have known many bullies in my time who use insults and threats to impose their particular view of things. I despise them. Enough said!

  396. “the point being it must have been first over-ridden to do the strange manoeuvres”.

    LOL !

    “Was this something that could be executed by the pilot?”

    L and LOL

    “We are told the auto pilot was fool proof”.

    So you never want to disengage a/p ! Like “f*ck the weather ahead” !!!!

    “(they even had huge oil slicks there) the only explanation is some other hi-tech/military explanation”.

    Erm… Oil Tanker flushing its tanks. Google it ! It’s illegal. Thy do it.

    “If it is, and it didn’t ditch in the Gulf of Thailand as they obviously wanted everyone to believe”

    Makes no sense whatsoever !

    “The pilots were unable to communicate”.

    What does that even mean ? ACARS was “off” or do you mean “radio” ????

    Kinda seems like “someone” had control. At least to program the a/p fli/dir FMC.
    Yep…that’s “control” to me !

    MEDIA !

    “If they were in a plane they were unable to control…..,”

  397. “I have always tried to be polite and non-personal”

    Oh come on ! That is a lie !
    But to hell with it. I’m not. I think you’re an idiot and will prove it…just so you go to bed crying (and hopefully crying my name !).

  398. “I have known many bullies in my time”

    Oddly enough, I haven’t !
    I guess the bullies picked on the weak and left me well alone.
    Never had an issue.

    Seems like you have had though. I wonder why ?

  399. “(they even had huge oil slicks there) the only explanation is some other hi-tech/military explanation”.

    I am still laughing at that. Tim must be a Yank. Never left his own door step.

    T A N K E R S ! They are BIG ships that carry oil

  400. Straw, thanks for that DavidIcke link. Very interesting discussion going on there and some amazing graphics.

    All in all, no one seems to believe the Malaysians – clearly they must have been in a damage control mode, while under pressure from some other government(s). people on DI seem to believe that those last two funny little accidents on MA were a way of sending “just another message”.

    That Cosmo99 poster is one fire. here is one thing he found out:

    “Parmira is one of the major shareholders for Freescale semiconductors, which had 20 employees on the plane, and also a major shareholder of Inmarsat which is the satellite company that tracked the plane after the tracking devices were shut down.”

    I am glad to see there are more people questioning the ownership AND control of that supposedly british company Inmarsat. They have supplied the ONLY indicators that the flight could be in the Indian ocean. I think we should all wonder what or who is pulling the strings.

    Also the details provided on some goings on at DG in late February are interesting.

    It’s a good forum, I must say. For the conspiratorially minded that is.

  401. James; someone questioned your Authority!!!

    Imperious Rex !!!

  402. Marlin,

    I’ve been following here, Icke and PPrune but I had no internet for 2 days and Pprune is hard to catch up with so I only dip in there now and again. A lot of non-pilots have been posting there without reading any previous posts and mods have been struggling to filter out all the crap.

    Well, time to call it a night. I wonder what ‘evidence’ they will have found by the morning.

  403. Katie
    24 Mar, 2014 – 9:47 pm that is a fascinating and probably significant fact you have uncovered there. It is only when all the little pieces are put together that the picture emerges. I believe we are living through a truly dangerous phase in the world’s history and the bereaved Chinese are right to scream that they don’t trust a word that is being told them. I am also sickened by the sycophantic and replicating nature of the worlds press and news outlets. Not one veers from the identical story. Not one examines or challenges what is being put out. Who needs a soviet style propaganda system if the news organs do it of their own volition? And having suggested a theory about British involvement (that may I agree be pure bunkum) we see the British taking centre stage again, using Doppler effect modelling to determine that the plane actually ended up in the southern ocean, one just wonders like Galileo, they were made to recant, having been shown (metaphorically speaking) the instruments of torture. Note again Obama ditched Britain for Holland though he still sat next to Cameron. As with Falklands in matters of spyware, and spies generally, the first cousin relationship is neither consistent or smooth. If this is a false flag in the making rather than just a hijacking to prevent expertise getting to China (Israeli put out the idea not me!) then part of that has to be the pretence of the plane crashing somewhere it can’t be found. If just to stop the expertise, then maybe a crash fulfils the purpose but the US could never admit to such a callous act involving innocents. Anyway if they did, it might well be China’s Lusitania. That could even be the mad calculation. Who knows what is going through these people’s minds these days?

  404. Straw 11:31pm – if you look at that skyvector from james, you’ll see that at the point before the plane inexplicably turned south (the 182 deg) it was on a heading straight for Diego Garcia. Not only that, but the distance to DG appears to be SHORTER than the distance to that so-called “final” point at the ocean. Obviously, there is ONLY Inmarsat’s word on that infamous “arc” (well displaced from the debris reported, but hey, that’s just winds and current, right?).

    Question – why on earth should we believe whatever we hear from this one company that seems to have primarily US ownership, including some group with CIA ties?

  405. Marlin

    Because the AAIB did the calculation…but then again they would (no links).

    PS. I support “no one”.
    I’d like to know what was on the cargo manifest.
    I’d also like to know the other MAS pilots view of the skipper.

    This “crash” is clearly “murder”. So who did it and why.

  406. James 10:46 pm – the “radicals” we are all worrying about here and everywhere are the neocon directed US policy that seems to have taken the state department hostage. These creatures (call them, just to be current – the Nuland/kagan axis) are the largest danger to the world – which includes the US. These crazies will not hesitate using Al Qaeda jihadists in Syria, neo-fascists in the Ukraine or gang members in Venezuela to achieve their nefarious regime change goals.

    No one believes a single word of the propaganda emanating from the main stream press. It’s like spirit of the old Pravda took over the NYT, WaPo, The Guardian, le Monde, der Spiegel and every MSM candian rag there is. This is the most serious threat the civilized people the world over confront. The sense of that danger is what animates conspiracy boards like DI and many of the posters here, whatever truth their speculations may or may not hold.

    It is of course, extremely difficult to opinionate on any event when one can’t believe the officials in charge. As is well illustrated here. Eventually though, the fog will lift some and, just like Chevaline, the outlines of at least that which didn’t happen will become clearer, as we learn to discern the more believable accounts from those that can be dismissed. In Chevaline, it’s the useful idiot Eric that had to be ignored. Here, we are still learning who to dismiss…except as a waypoint for where they don’t want us to go.

  407. James, 12;22 am – yes, indeed. It is strange we have heard so little of other pilots’ opinions or impressions of the one you call “the skipper”. Also strange that we can’t seem to get any information on the pilots family; did they move out? was he estranged from the wife or not? what of his children – we have only heard of the daughter in australia who flew back. Surely, at the very least they must be inconsolate – not just because of the finger of possible blame – but the loss must be incredible.

    And I agree about the cargo. problem is – if there was something there that could provide motive or scasus belie, you can rest assured we’ll never hear about it, would we?

  408. Marlin

    Your 12.25 agree with. Your 12.31 agree with.
    It’s like a “private” war these days it would seem.

    This will take ten years to sort out ! (another one).
    And by then we’ll all be eating beans in a bunker!

  409. Those are fascinating graphics Straw44berry
    24 Mar, 2014 – 11:21 pm particularly the three dimensional depiction of the flight out of KL. Another point it brings out(I made it a while back) the dearth of US forces – just ONE aircraft. How does this correlate with an early report that they had sent ships to the southern ocean. Forbid the thought that they took some debris down there and then pushed off.

  410. “The search for the remains of Malaysia Flight MH370 faces challenges from the elements that may prove insurmountable.”


    Not just for the current debris search but remember that the specialised deep sea submersibles that would be used in any search for the flight recorder need support ships on the surface and need reasonable conditions to operate safely. I doubt there will be many days they could operate in the Roaring Forties.

    If you wanted to pick a spot to make finding the flight recorder almost impossible I think the suspected crash site would be high on the list.

    If this was an accident then this was extremely unlucky.

    Or if crashed deliberately (by pilot, hijacker or whatever agency) then it suggests to me this was planned in advance and that the intention was that the flight recorder would never be found.

  411. Tim V 12;11 am – looks like we were singing from the same music sheet, regarding the Versailles press throughout the western world. What the heck, one might ask, happened to independent press? how could they all provide such strangely identical account? the same press, mind you, that amusingly keeps excoriating the Chinese press for lack of independence. Am

    I seem to be able to recall not so long ago, that there used to be reporters who had questions, who voiced doubts, who did independent investigations. yes, many ended up on the independent blogs, but surely there must be just a few left in the MSM? well, none that i can see and i glance through many of the English language ones.

    Downright weird, indeed.

    Anyways, i still have that hunch that the Chinese who are emerging as the injured party in all this, will not let things slide quite so easily. They are handling the families in beijing quite differently than they often do other Chinese victims of disaster. letting reporters through, allowing the anguish to be played out in public, gathering them all at a hotel, letting them vent at the Malaysian officials etc. This is like an extreme grievance reality show which i am sure is stoking up resentment all over China. So far, the Chinese authorities are being circumspect, more or less, But they are letting the families do rage. For now.

  412. James
    24 Mar, 2014 – 11:50 pm I try my best to resist the temptation but your superciliousness is just irresistible. All your clever put downs are just so obvious. I’ll take just ONE. The oil in the gulf of Thailand. What fool doesn’t know that tankers clean out their tanks at sea. We KNOW its illegal but they still do it. However this was taken by the Malaysians as a significant indicator. OK now say THEY were stupid. Are you qualified to judge? It was being sampled by them to see if it was same fuel as the MH370. Even this is strange. You know why clever clogs? Because aviation fuel is light, readily evaporates and is unlikely to leave a mile plus oil slick (of course) So why were the M’s trumpeting it as an indicator of a crash site EVEN AFTER they knew the plane had turned and gone SW? ps. to my knowledge no one has referred to this even you so two fingers to your plagiarism jibe. (You tried that one in Chevaline as well I remember)

    As to your last hearty laugh you obviously haven’t listened to the conversation tape of AF 447 an Airbus A330-200. Or perhaps you have. They over rode the auto pilot and then did everything wrong.

    “A minute after the autopilot disconnected, Bonin muttered something odd: “I’m in TOGA, huh?” TOGA stands for Take Off, Go Around. Bonin was apparently so disorientated that he believed he was operating at low altitude, in a similar situation to a pilot having to abort a landing approach before circling for a second attempt. Standard procedure on abandoning a landing is to set engines to full power and tilt the aircraft upwards at 15 degrees. But Flight AF447 was not a few hundred feet above a runway. Within a minute it had soared to 38,000 feet in air so thin that it could climb no more. As forward thrust was lost, downward momentum was gathering. Instead of the wings slicing neatly through the air, their increasing angle of attack meant they were in effect damming it. In the next 40 seconds AF447 fell 3,000 feet, losing more and more speed as the angle of attack increased to 40 degrees. The wings were now like bulldozer blades against the sky. Bonin failed to grasp this fact, and though angle of attack readings are sent to onboard computers, there are no displays in modern jets to convey this critical information to the crews. One of the provisional recommendations of the BEA inquiry has been to challenge this absence.”


    “Robert himself was panicking: “We still have the engines! What the hell is happening? I don’t understand what’s happening.” Ninety seconds after the emergency began the captain was back in the cockpit demanding: “What the hell are you doing?” To which both pilots responded: “We’ve lost control of the plane!””

    So yes a pilot can disengage auto pilot and make a cock-up of it and LOOSE CONTROL OF THE AIRCRAFT.

    However the issue with the Boeing 777 is/was did it or did it not have the tamper-proof auto pilot and in what circumstances can/could a pilot disengage it?

    Now perhaps in plain simple language you could answer that one?

  413. Quite agree Marlin
    25 Mar, 2014 – 12:12 am. I wait to be convinced about the Southern Ocean. Once the Gulf of Thailand explanation had been blown DG shouts, nay screams! likely destination. (You know this is so Chevaline territory isn’t it?) It is just possible the plane took a slightly indirect route first NW over maldives then down towards DG who knows? Anything is possible one you factor in the initial event.

  414. @Marlin 24 Mar, 2014 – 7:33 pm: “NR – I can’t imagine that the Chinese don’t have a pretty good idea what those capabilities are, and where they are located.”

    It’s not only the location but sensitivity/range of passive acoustic sensors for example. Or the US could have an entirely new tech they’re protecting.

    Other countries in the area are suspect of Chinese ships in their waters. Russia had a habit of large factory fishing/spy vessels in the vicinity of western war games.

    Whatever it is, it gave the US a good indication the plane crashed at sea in that general location and there were no survivors, as opposed to an emergency landing with a chance of people in life rafts.

    The White House told Malaysia this on 14 March, and since then has kept an unusually low-profile. Why the delay from 9 Mar to 14 Mar? The thought of MH370 flying so far and to such a remote area was so unlikely that they only examined data in retrospect and then wasted another couple of days with bureaucratic arguing. Or were top-secret Power Point presentations needed to make things understandable for senior pay grades?

    Inmarsat’s explanation of selecting the southern arc by analyzing the Doppler Effect sounds reasonable, if it’s true. The big advantage is all experts have the opportunity to explain the effect, imitating the sound of speeding train horns.

    Whatever. They’ll eventually come up with a 3/4 convincing explanation which Popular Mechanics sells the majority of the public.

  415. NR, 6:39am:

    The timing is indeed interesting, especially of the US delay from 9 to 14th of march, which you brought up.

    Now, lets look at this in light of the information brought up here (was it Katie?) that all flights to Diego Garcia were suspended between March 8 and March 10 or 11 (sorry, me too lazy to look up the exact link but this thread is not yet too forbiddingly long, so easy enough to find). Funny, isn’t it? if one were a conspiracy theorist (and me never, ever that!) it would look like just enough time to land a plane, hide whereabouts for a day or so, then figure out how to dispose/move out to sea (say, South Indian ocean somewhere over the rainbow?), whence debris could possibly found some day hence. The 14th to tell the Malaysians which way is south would seem to be about right in such an extreme conspiratorial case, no?

    Yes, there were those passengers. And yes, the mind boggles at the thought that the US (which, unfortunately thinks little of blowing off entire wedding parties on the off-chance that there could just be, heaven forbid, a real life terrorist among the guests) could care so little for human life (which incidentally, included ‘just” three Americans, none of whom were state side residents any longer), as to consider them “unfortunate” collaterals.

    One thing I do believe the Malaysian authorities: those hapless passengers and crew are no longer.

    But here’s the bigger question for you, NR, and us all – just what the heck does it mean that so many in the world (even me!) are willing to accept that America the once-great would be capable of such dastardly deeds? where does such lack of faith in “the greatest democracy on earth” leave us, whereever we live? once upon a time, not so long ago, the mere idea that America would be capable of the most callous banal acts of evil, would be considered preposterous. But not any longer, it seems. And without America-the-good, just who exactly is left? the once great Britain? the illustrious Canadians (who, after all, elected harper)? the incomparable Australians?

    Just something to ponder…..

    PS my one solace – and refuge – are cat videos. Along with a few other 10′s of Millions (soon to be hundreds). Not that i don’t peek at dog videos now and then….

  416. @katie 24 Mar, 2014 – 8:28 pm: “Mar. 3, 2014 — “Freescale Semiconductor, a global leader in radio frequency (RF) power transistors, today announced the availability of 11 new commercial RF power LDMOS products that can meet the requirements of U.S. defence electronics applications.” Was it the same principle as killing off the Iranian scientists?”

    Remember this one from 2012?
    “Singapore coroner rules Shane Todd death suicide.”

    “Analysis of the Shane Todd Coroner’s Report: … While not dwelling at this time on the many further anomalies relating to Huawei and IME… had been discussing the GaN (Gallium Nitride) Power Amplifier Project…”

    In addition to Iranian scientists we should include on our list of dangerous occupations semiconductor experts and more recently banksters.

  417. Regarding debris (conspiracy)????

    A Malaysian Airlines sister airplane Boeing 777-200 was sold to GA Telesis and was then re-registered and sent to Tel Aviv on 4/11/13 where it was stored until …. ??????


    Malaysian Air 777 manufacturer serial number 28416 registered as 9M-MRI was sold to GA Telesis on 10/21/2013 and now registered as N105GT. So the image below shows this aircraft still registered as 9M-MRI and stored at Tarbes Lourdes Pyrenees on 04/10/2013, and then on 04/11/2013 it’s re-registered as N105GT and stored at Tel Aviv. 



  418. @Marlin 25 Mar, 2014 – 7:22 am
    I’ve heard the stories of the Lusitania, FDR possibly ignoring warnings about Pearl Harbor and Churchill allowing bombing of Coventry to protect the secret that Britain had broken the Enigma code.

    It’s hard to tell what’s justified in real time. Always about protecting the Motherland, Fatherland, Homeland or Empire. As the victors write history, if MH370 was state sponsored we won’t learn what happened for another 50 or 100 years.

  419. In my neck of the woods the story so far goes like this:

    Plane saw something, dropped smoke for approaching ships

    Ship found nothing

    Some silly math person using the curvature of the earth to ‘add’ length to a magic formula just added an almost miniscule “Doppler” effect to a chart

    Malaysia says “That’s it, they’re all dead

    Big storm came, everybody goes home

    Search permanently suspended

    Dah? :-(

  420. The last time that Malaysian Boeing 777 had been seen was in November 2013 when it was landing in Tel Aviv. Since then that airplane had never been seen again.


    GA Telesis has its headquarters in Ft.Lauderdale/Florida.

    Dejavu 9/11?

  421. Blubird – I just did a search for 9M-MRi, apparently it is owned by Malaysian Airways and it is stored away.


    Spare parts? (He he ) :-)

  422. Donald ….


    It was stored for dissembling but then was obviously NOT dissembled but it was spotted when flying to Tel Aviv in november 2013.
    Since then the 777 malaysian airlines hadnt been seen ever again.


    It looks at least fishy. Why would Israel need a Malaysian airlines Boeing-777-200 that should have been already dissembled at that time due to the GA Telesis website?

  423. Bluebird – A 777 would make a magnificent addition to the Israeli Air Force as a refueling plane.

    There is also the fact that if you place a nuke in it and send it Iran’s way then no one is likely to miss it.

  424. Good morning all.

    I’ve had another thought about that muffled or was it mumbled [which could change with translation] message the Vietnamese mentioned…now denied.
    Do we know at which stage it was made or what was said , I don’t think so, but could it have sounded muffled due to wearing an oxygen mask ?

    If the message was heard around the time the plane was climbing to 45,000 or descending through 20,000ft that would explain it .


    I believe there’s many a false flag operation, the latest for me,is the Libyan fiasco,they don’t seem to worry about innocents who get in their way.
    Car accidents of vital witnesses & recently two navy seals found with ‘needles’ same day same time.
    Admittedly we are talking about a great number this time, but we don’t know just how many were innocent. Is it not very odd that so many highly trained technicians who worked on ‘sensitive’ material were all travelling on the same flight,anyone with common sense would not allow that.
    I also wonder if something in the hold was not connected to their work ?

    James/Marlin why are we thinking the plane flew over the Maldives going to DG , why not when it was leaving , it would muddy the waters & help confuse the investigation…………..making it look like the plane was lost ?

    Tim, the fact DG was closed during those three crucial days, HAS to be significant…..not least because there has been absolute silence on the place,not one of our so called journalists have had the nerve,gumption,energy to make enquiries on either island. It’s a disgrace !

    I am curious about the pilot flying out of the area to ditch the plane, could the passengers have been told they had a technical problem so were diverting to DG ?
    Was the cargo & maybe some of the passengers removed there & the plane took off again with the same pilot thinking they were now on their way to Beijing, but in fact flying over the Maldives then out towards the Indian ocean……….. but unbeknown to the pilot on a preset flight path ,with enough fuel to get that far,timed to also explode once way out to sea, therefore destroying any evidence which could be found if just falling into the sea due to lack of fuel ?

  425. Donald

    …. or else you are “missing” some of the dissembled debris somewhere in the south indian ocean or else the debris of the Malaysian 777-200 stored in Tel Aviv did accidentally fall off an Israeli cargo ship en route to melbourne ….

    But why Israel plus a company from Ft.Lauderdale (once again) ?

  426. Katie -

    1) http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-24/ebola-outbreak-sees-scores-die-in-west-africa/5340100

    2) http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2013/Dec-12/240836-guinea-bissau-hits-out-at-portugal-in-syrian-refugee-row.ashx

    Above is next door to N#1

    3) Iranians of flight MH 370 did not fly to Malaysia from Iran

    4) Massive False Passport racket in West Africa, as in N#1 above

    I have tonnes more

  427. That’s a fascinating tale about the stored plane BB.

    Donald, that really complicates things ,west & east Africa are riddled with rot,but even the Mall siege was not up to this heist.

    I was baffled as to why there were so many Lebanese in Sierra Leone when I was there years ago. None of them worked ,they spent their days gambling big sums of money [ I sat in on one session] & all seemed to be well off.

  428. Katie – So my theory is this:

    Two young Iranians wish to go to Europe and start looking for stolen passports, they begin to ask around.

    At the same time the terrorists find out that for the first time in 20 years there is a real Ebola outbreak in West Africa, right next to where they train their young African recruits and also next to the false passport hub of the world.

    A Golden Opportunity to kill millions

    The Terrorists decide to use the two young innocent Iranians as carriers of the virus .. to Europe. (takes a week for the virus to incubate)

    The Americans find out and make sure it disappears far, far away so that nobody can touch the contaminated corpse and contaminate plane.

    And Diego Garcia just watched them fly right on by :-)

  429. A bit more … Of course that now accounts for the fact that although some debris was seen from the air nobody wants to lay a hand on it, the first time it was lost, the second time smoke was laid but the ship did not find it, and now a huge storm just happens to have destroyed any possibility of ever finding anything else to do with the plane.

  430. Donald, that would justify a mass killing yes.

    But, why would terrorists want to kill muslims & Chinese, had the plane been full of Westerners maybe ,but it wasn’t ?

  431. Bleb
    25 Mar, 2014 – 12:42 am

    Absolutely, a well thought out spot indeed.
    A place where the black box will be difficult to retrieve,if at all, but also not an inhabited part of the world so no sightings & no one could see a plane explode.

    This is why it’s not the usual terrorist plot.

  432. About GA Telesis (Ft.Lauderdale headquarters)

    Owned by Bank of America Merrill Lynch (49%) and private investors.

    Mr. Abdol Moabery serves as the President and Chief Executive Officer of GA Telesis, LLC. Previously, Mr. Moabery served as Executive Vice President of Aviation Systems International, Inc., and as Director of Marketing and Sales at C-S Aviation Services, Inc. He also served in the the U.S. Navy and U.S. Naval Reserve. He serves as a Trustee of Florida Atlantic University. He is President of the Wings Club Scholarship Fund and is an Adviser to several national and local children’s charities. Mr. Moabery is a Philanthropist of various organizations, including His House Children’s Home, Kids in Distress, Florence Fuller Child Development Center, Food for the Poor, the ISTAT Foundation, the Factor Foundation and the March of Dimes. Mr. Moabery received his Bachelor’s degree in International Business Management from FAU.



  433. Katie – The terrorists also want China to give freedom to some Chinese sections in the Western parts of the country, an epidemic in the eastern sections which killed millions anywhere near Beijing would have been perfect for their aims.

    The Iranians were only due to stop in China for a short while only then on to Europe, by the time they got there they would contaminated everyone in the entire plane.

    Only a theory, mind you, but it accounts for everything that has happened so far

  434. Donald, yes the separatist Uighurs have a gripe & apparently a justified one for independence.

    So they would want the Chinese to suffer but as yet their dispute has been confined to sporadic outbreaks of violence,the recent one being the biggest & worst……..

    I can’t help thinking the 2 Iranians were genuine & have been used as useful idiots.

  435. Both former companies of Mr.Moabery were owned by George Soros. Therefore it is not unlikely that Soros owns a good part in GA Telesis, too.

    C-S Aviation Services, 


    Aviation Systems International, Inc


  436. Katie – Yes, useful idiots is exactly what they were, although I am still to check why the mother of the younger one was in Europe and he wasn’t. Rather odd for a mother to leave a young son behind in another country. I wonder if she was a westerner or an Iranian?

  437. So,BB, tell us what you’re thinking on motive ?

  438. Katie
    Forget the Uighurs. They dont have a problem. They are being killed by islamic jihadists, too.
    The Uighur territory is East-Turkey. This is the former Eastern part of the Ottoman empire.
    Turkish financed islamic jihadists were infiltrated into the Uighur territory to recruit young and poor local men for joining their “holy war”.
    The centre and headquarters of Uighur islamic jihadism is in Munich (germany) and run by Turkush guys who are being heavily sponsored and financed by NATO/Gladio.

    The Uighur terrorism is no locally created terror but a NATO/stay behind terror, covered as jihadism (as always in the middle east and in northern africa, too) in order to weaken China.
    Command centre fof Uighur terror is munich/germany.

  439. Donald, I also wondered about that, surely if she were there legally the son did not need to indulge in dishonesty & subterfuge to get there. His story was very ‘iffy’.

    He could have visited her for a holiday & stayed….or are all Iranians banned from Germany ?

  440. 14th of March: “From his Pakistan hideout, Uighur leader vows revenge on China”


    Now, where else but in Pakistan would the leader of a terrorist group be hiding.

  441. Katie
    I dont see a motive. I am just collecting facts. Not more.
    I didnt see a motive prior to 9/11 either.

    I just say that this stinks fishy in regards to the “lost” plane and its identical twin sister plane having been delivered to Tel Aviv for “dissembling” by a Ft.Lauderdale company (owned by Merrill Lynch and assumingly Soros) only 4 months ago.

  442. Katie – I don’t know if they are banned in any way or sense, what doesn’t make sense is that these young men had proper and legal passports to leave Iran and yet decided to use false ones to enter Europe.

    The right way of doing things is to have a false visa added to a real passport, perhaps a Permanent Resident stamp. Such things are not hard at all, you can buy the stuff cheap on Facebook.

    The thing is, if you get caught with a false passport you go to jail but if you get caught altering your own you only get deported


  443. Good Reuters link ,Donald, there’s much in it I didn’t know.

    BB, agreed,Soros is the money guy, what of technology ?

    Just watched the morning press conference,there’s a very sombre atmosphere.
    The only news is that they’ve stopped searching in the northern corridor & around Thailand,all efforts are now concentrated in the area off Perth.


    Donald and Bluebird. You should email Christopher Bollyn about that Israely company based in Ft. Lauderdale, which in November 2013 flew an exact replica of the Malaysian MH370 to Tel Aviv. I’m still trying to wrap my mind round that one. But Bollyn has massive experience in these sort of deceptions, and I’m sure if anyone can make any sense of thus, it’s him

  445. This is the head organisation and headquarters for the uighur jihadism.

    The Congress, a Munich-based organization that includes various exiled Uighur groups, stresses it is a peaceful movement. Kadeer called on Uighurs to act lawfully and “to calm down instead of playing with fire … any violence brings more violence so I urge my people, stay away from any acts of violence”.


  446. Sorensen

    The thing is that this airplane “lost in Tel Aviv in november 2013″ isnt just another Boeing 777-200 but it is its absolutely IDENTICAL twin of the currently lost airplane. The one and only visible difference would be its serial number.

    Probably just another coincidence.

  447. The only email address — which connects to him — I could find on his site, is the one people use when they send money to him through Paypal, so I suppose it would be possible to get in contact with him this way: bollyn [you know what goes here] bollynbooks.com

    [e-mail address broken to prevent spamming]

  448. I doubt if there are any further efforts to find the plane, the storm in the Indian Ocean will make it very difficult to ever find any wreckage from the plane ever again.

    “..Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott today declared that the search for missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 was now moving into a recovery and investigation stage, and said the country was handing investigation back to Malaysia….”

    And with those words Australia has removed itself from any further effort.


  449. Very interesting.
    Donalds link

    Australia says MH370 search now at ‘recovery’ stage, hands over probe to Malaysia
    MARCH 25, 2014

    Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott today declared that the search for missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 was now moving into a recovery and investigation stage, and said the country was handing investigation back to Malaysia.

    “Based on the accumulation of evidence, late last night, Prime Minister Najib Razak of Malaysia declared that the plane must be declared lost in the southern Indian Ocean,”


    Australia says MH370 search now at ‘recovery’ stage, hands over probe to Malaysia
    MARCH 25, 2014

    Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott today declared that the search for missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 was now moving into a recovery and investigation stage, and said the country was handing investigation back to Malaysia.

    “Based on the accumulation of evidence, late last night, Prime Minister Najib Razak of Malaysia declared that the plane must be declared lost in the southern Indian Ocean,”

    “Malaysia needs to take control under the Chicago Convention of those investigations,” SMH quoted him as saying. – March 25, 2014.

    That’s why the relatives were so distressed yesterday, they can see the search is being scaled down.
    No doubt now it will quietly fade away !


  450. Sorry about the repeat.

  451. Sorrenson, as much as you try ,I cannot see Israeli hands in this…they have enough problems without taking on the Chinese.

  452. Money quotation from that Chapter:


    The Israeli military and its intelligence agencies have long had the capability to convert and disguise large-body aircraft in the United States, and their companies that do this kind of work are connected to International Consultants on Targeted Security (ICTS), the Israeli airport security company that is a prime suspect in the “false flag” terrorism. ICTS was a key defendant in the 9-11 litigation until Judge Hellerstein allowed them to be dismissed from the case in May 2011.


  453. Blue.

    I’m not getting why this GA Telesis B777 is the “sister plane” to 9M-MRO ?

    Why not 9M-MRN or 9M-MRP ?
    MAS must operate a good number of B777-200ER’s (and 2H6ER’s at that)

    I admit is “odd” that on the GA Telesis fleet there is only N-105GT registered to them (formerly the MAS a/c 9M-MRI), which appears to have been “parked” at Tel Aviv before it was sold to GA Telesis on the 21st of October 2013.

    I “get” that it was likely the same config as 9M-MRO (what it is now, I have no idea) and from what I can “see” it does not appear to be “dismantled” as yet ( it is still on the FAA register and is “air worthy”).

    It may have (highly likely) been resprayed when it went WFU in May 2013 and “stripped” by the mechanics at KUL.

  454. Australia’s defense minister does not appear to be buying into the Inmersat data, he says it is all speculation until some debris is found to probe MH-370 is at the bottom of the Indian Ocean.

    “…..”This is a mystery, and until we recover and positively identify a piece of debris, everything is virtually speculation.”……”


  455. That’s the right stuff, Donald. Good old British/Australian grit and sheer common sense – while the Americans and their client state (the 53th state) has been busy scheeming, and finelly aborted the mission by saying it ended up in the South China Sea. The people of the world are now so informed via the uncontrollable internet, that they can’t pull of a new 9/11, and it could just be that uncle Sam said to the them: Enough ie enough. We knew what you did 9/11 – we will have no more of it.

  456. I wrote an email to bollyn linking to this forum with the subject:

    Dear Mr. Bollyn – MH370 had a twin aircraft, owned by GA Telesis, which flew to Tel Aviv in November 2013

  457. I referred to this article in the “Not Forgetting the al-Hillis” thread:


    I also posted these links:


    Saad al-Hilli worked for SSTL, which had launched a new satellite that could tie into the AIS system to track vessels, including aircraft. Note the ability to remotely “nudge” a satellite off its orbit at will. Note various parties with financial interest in this technology. From the exactearth link:

    “EV-1 was designed to be the most advanced AIS satellite built to date and during the testing phase it has lived up to that billing as we have witnessed a doubling of detection rates compared to any of our previous satellite AIS sensors. We are excited with the prospect of making these data available to our customers in the very near future and providing a big step forward in maritime vessel detections from space. EV-1 is the product of exactEarth technology and investment – we see this as setting the gold standard for performance which we will continue with planned launches next year of the Canadian M3M satellite and an exactEarth AIS payload on the Spanish PAZ radar satellite.”

    It’s amazing to believe that with all this technology, it can be so difficult to find a missing airliner. It’s also difficult to believe that not a single passenger was using a mobile phone or Wifi, which could be tracked. It is amazing, and incredible.

  458. Why all this drivel about Israel being behind this crash, like in the 9/11 ones, when it will not consider Meir Dagan’s Mossad , thanks to its taking on as a possible recruit William Hershkovitz, being behind the murders of the al-Hillis and Sylvan Mollier?

    Looks like false flag’ reversals of explanations of what really happened.

  459. Thank you, Donald. I see that the Ebola virus has made its way to Canada.


    See my links for Canada’s role in exactEarth technology.

  460. Kenneth – If men in dark suits come knocking at me door I shall blame it all on you first, Bluebird second and then when they come in with the electric shocks I shall say Katie instigated it all. :-)

  461. Q – Thank you for the link, I’d say we shall see some more of this, from what I hear the epidemic in Africa has already crossed borders and spread to three countries.

  462. @NR 7:39 am: Freescale Semiconductor was a spinoff of Motorola. And look at who holds the patent on this satellite technology: Motorola.


  463. Marlin
    25 Mar, 2014 – 12:25 am in support of your interpretation of the global situation you may be interested in the fact that this morning I tried to post an edited version of my 12.11 post on the “Huffington Post” that was critical of the news organs and mentioned Israel. (Reminder: Israeli spokesman specifically put it in the public domain that MH370 could have been hi-jacked to enable it to be used in a 9/11 type attack. It also took the unprecedented step of closing ALL foreign embassies on the excuse of an industrial dispute that could hardly be co-incidental) It did not even appear as a draft for monitoring. Just an immediate note “This post has been deleted”. I have never seen this before. I guess it can only be explained it terms of an automatic word recognition system – the word ?

  464. Kenneth – Motorala means nothing to the Israelis, have you ever heard of “The Towers” Books? (not the company)

    A towers book has pages and pages of electronic parts equivalents between Japanese and European electronic components. Parts or who builds them don’t matter, even today any electronics engineer (such as myself) who wants to patent some new circuit will most likely find that it was already patented in one form or another some 100 years ago.

    The most coveted company in the world for electronics would have to be Siemens, their parts can be found in almost all electronic components.

    Motorola is more along the lines of low end electronics, TV transmissions, handset and maybe a few specialized chips for multiplexing TV or Satellite signals and so on.

    For computer chips I would say look at Taiwan and Silicon Valley stuff, even the Chinese want to copy that kind of stuff but nobody needs to control Motorola when Texas Instruments virtually replicates everything they do.

  465. I cannot help but wonder if Saad al-Hilli’s death was the result of his work for SSTL. IMO, that “galley” work of his on airplanes has more to do with the picocell units that communicate with satellites than passenger snack preparation.


    Emirates Airlines started using this technology on its Airbus A380 fleet in 2008. Saad al-Hilli worked on the Airbus A380. Found this on in-flight entertainment systems on British Airways’ Airbus A380 and Boeing 787s:


    Who knew that this technology can provide “3D moving map application that includes a full featured globe with satellite imagery and full-motion 3D view of the aircraft”?

    BTW, is worth remembering that the crash of Swissair 111 was blamed on its in-flight entertainment system.

    Did Saad al-Hilli’s satellite connections lead to his demise? A lot of money and power is at stake in this technology race, with many countries involved. Instead of looking at the obvious, the French went chasing a lone nutter, and managed to find one. Quel surprise.

  466. I knew there was something about Motorola and Israel – and this is the reason I — even perhaps when tempted — have never bought a mobile phone of this brand. It is also an important signal to send to the US parent company: Divest yourself from Israel.

  467. According to this, the MH370′s pilot’s family suddenly vanished the day before the flight:


    Kind of like a sudden vacation at the beginning of the school year?

  468. I recall years ago McDonald (Burger people) were accused of supporting terrorists.

    Their employee form said “contributions to IRA”.
    The UK “nutter brigade” into overdrive.

    IRA in The States is “Individual Retirement Accounts”.
    It is a normal question for an employer to ask of an employee.

    Mad world ! Or just mad people !

  469. Twitter statement says it’s not Ebola. Great way to get the official word out, that Twitter:


  470. Marlin 7.22 You say: “But here’s the bigger question for you, NR, and us all – just what the heck does it mean that so many in the world (even me!) are willing to accept that America the once-great would be capable of such dastardly deeds? where does such lack of faith in “the greatest democracy on earth” leave us, whereever we live? once upon a time, not so long ago, the mere idea that America would be capable of the most callous banal acts of evil, would be considered preposterous. But not any longer, it seems. And without America-the-good, just who exactly is left? the once great Britain? the illustrious Canadians (who, after all, elected harper)? the incomparable Australians?”

    I couldn’t have put it better though I have tried in the past. I believe you have pin-pointed a historically important point of tectonic proportions that is a serious threat to our future. It is two-fold: ONE a trust in western democracy and political systems to truly reflect majority public sentiment and TWO the role of the “press” to independently investigate and examine.

    Personally speaking, I have argued that in respect of America it has been a long time in gestation which I date back to Kennedy, which must now be regarded as a coup d’tat, plus other events up to the game-changer 9/11. From that point on nothing that emanates from US top layer can be taken at face, and no act however barbaric, excluded. This is a disastrous situation not only for America but also for the “free world”. Only Americans can put it right and as 9/11 also demonstrates, that is not very likely. Obama was an exercise in rhetoric and it is hard to detect any big change in direction or methods since he arrived.

    As with Chevaline, MH370 presents us with certain incontrovertible, uncomfortable and irreducible “facts” that cannot be dodged. After that we grasp at straws as to what happened, why it happened or who did it. One of the irreducible facts is that SOMEBODY did. However much they try to fix up the pilot or co-pilot the story just does not hold and so in the absence of “terror” what and who do we have left.

    If it was the US it would appear they have become even more brazen and careless about the supporting back story. At least with Kennedy and 9/11 an attempt was made even if it later all fell apart. This time none.

  471. x posted on another thread by AlcAnon;

    “Some research on hacking planes. Caused quite a fuss on pilot forums at the time. https://conference.hitb.org/hitbsecconf2013ams/materials/D1T1%20-%20Hugo%20Teso%20-%20Aircraft%20Hacking%20-%20Practical%20Aero%20Series.pdf

    Allegedly also the radio hardware inside some consumer android devices can be persuaded to transmit and receive on ACARS frequencies.”

  472. Q – A Tom Clancy Book? Wow, I hadn’t considered that … just looked it up in Wiki and I’ll be darned if doesn’t make one think about the recent events.

    There is more to this, I’m sure .. I’m also sure the next few weeks might very well be interesting.

    Thankfully in Clancy’s books the goodies always win.

  473. That’s odd, Ben, because SSTL is testing android phones to control satellites in orbit.


    I wonder if that would be a Motorola phone using android?


    Moto G uses CDMA, which is the same technology used by SSTL for its satellites.

    “Low-power transmitters utilising Code Division Multiple Access (CDMA) technology, will transmit usage, safety and other messages to satellites circling the globe in near-polar orbit. All six microsatellites will be designed and built at SSTL’s facilities within the Surrey Space Centre, Guildford, UK.”

    From Space Daily link.

  474. Q; Apollo 11′s onboard ‘puter had less capacity than today’s smartphone.

    What’s odd to me, is how many simply dismiss hacking outright as not feasible.

  475. @Donald: I think NR might be interested in the new Ubisoft gaming version of the book, due for release soon.

    In keeping with the theme of Tom Clancy, there’s a rainbow, too:


    No mention of antique Swiss lugers.

  476. NR
    25 Mar, 2014 – 7:39 am I shared your percipient Shane Todd reminder on Inquiring minds (http://inquiringminds.cc/uk) where I have done several articles on “suicides”. Hope you don’t MIND?

  477. @Ben: I have long wondered about the mobile phones used by any of the people at Chevaline on September 5, 2012, and how good the signal is for various types of phones at that location.

  478. i had not seen this. One of three Americans on the flight.


    “Philip Wood

    Texas man Philip Wood was one of three Americans on board flight MH370.

    According to local newspapers, the 50-year-old was working for IBM in Kuala Lumpur and had previously lived in Beijing.”

  479. Ironically linking back to the Huawei issue, SSTL has worked with this university:



    Yes, some Huawei phones use CDMA and android operating systems.

  480. Q; Was Chevaline on the Al-Hilli thread?

  481. Perhaps the magic elves at Craig Murray could copy my SSTL posts over to the “Not Forgetting” thread, or should yours truly do it?

  482. Just a thought about the two iranianas on MH-370

    The picture below is supposed to be one taken of the two of them along with two other friends but:


    Why are they wearing the same clothes they were wearing when they boarded the plane? Why was this picture taken just before they left?

    Who are the other two men, are they not part of a clue/lead, should they not be identified, did these men also board the plane?

    If so now we may now have four Iranians traveling together and not just two.

  483. Yes, Ben, the Chevaline issue was discussed on the al-Hilli thread. Tim V might be able to help you find it, or search Google using the name of the thread + Chevaline/Polaris/missile in quotes. It’s quite difficult to go back and search the thread. Rendition was also discussed.

    BTW, Google Chrome is Moto G’s search engine.

  484. Beating the drum riles the natives. Iran also responsible for the Chicago fire.


  485. Q; I visit from time to time, but help me with the 1000 page stare. :)

    approx dates?

  486. I’VE FOUND HIS PRIMARY EMAIL-ADDRESS: christopher [guess] bollyn.com and send the email anew. Here are the first lines, and it consist of the relevant quotes from Bluebird.

    B-R-E-A-K-I-N-G – Dear Mr. Bollyn – MH370 had a twin aircraft, owned by GA Telesis, which flew to Tel Aviv in November 2013 in oreder to be stored/converted (!)

    The information comes from our master-researcher Bluebird on this forum:
    I’m sure you can make good use of it :-)

    I’m currently reading your book “Solving 9-11″, and has advertised it here and there. It is a fascinating book, – you have certainly researhed 9/11 like no other, – just the info about Israelis in the US aircraft business are worth the whole thing.

  487. Uh,,,my reading comp. I see….Sept 2012….thx

  488. As to the US ability to shoot down civilian air craft we have the cases of
    PanAm 103 over Lockerbie in 1989 and Iran Air Flight 655 from Tehran to Dubai in 1988.

    “The United States Navy guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes shot down Iran Air Flight 655 over Iran’s territorial waters in the Persian Gulf. The aircraft, an Airbus A300 B2-203, was destroyed by SM-2MR surface-to-air missiles fired from the Vincennes. All 290 on board, including 66 children and 16 crew, died. It was cited as the reason for a retribution Lockerbie operation, although Libya was wrongly and knowingly blamed for political reasons.

    In respect of Lockerbie it is alleged that this was masterminded by Abu Nidal who it is claimed was a US agent. Former UK Labour MP Tam Dalyell and Edinburgh law professor Robert Black “have long believed Abu Nidal, who died in Iraq in 2002, and his PFLP-GC, Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine General Command, were responsible for co-ordinating the bomb that blew up Pan Am flight 103 over Lockerbie on 21 December, 1988 with the loss of 270 lives.”

    Dalyell and Black have urged the Scottish and UK governments to answer reports that Abu Nidal was a US agent.”

    For the avoidance of doubt this is an edited version from this http://aangirfan.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/malaysian-airlines-mh370-stolen.html

  489. Q
    25 Mar, 2014 – 1:31 pm’
    ‘According to this, the MH370′s pilot’s family suddenly vanished the day before the flight’.

    Just look at these two links, the first of the wife & family the second of the student daughter leaving Australia.



    Judging by this the wife is too young, I’d say, to be the mother of the student daughter, so where is her mother & I wonder if the pilot had been married twice ?

  490. Parasite satellites have been talked about for more than a decade, so why haven’t we heard anything about this in relation to MH370?



    Notably the book says that SSTL worked with China’s Tsinghua and Harbin universities to develop the parasite satellite technology. The author describes it as an advanced anti-satellite weapon. Astrium was also involved, according to the author.

    If satellite signals are jammed, what happens to a commercial airliner using those satellites?

    Was this SSTL’s bread and butter money maker?

  491. Ben.
    Wood’s wife was the weeping woman shown on TV day after day after the MH370 disappearance.
    White American.

  492. TWA 800 had numerous witnesses who saw contrails go up to the plane. They were ignored in favor of a less odious cause.


  493. “As to the US ability to shoot down civilian air craft we have the cases of
    PanAm 103 over Lockerbie in 1989″

    This guy is NUTS !

    The bomb was loaded onto the aircraft at Heathrow by the “PFPL”.

    Just like your “piece” on AF447. Totally wrong.

  494. For Donald & those who don’t have it,here’s the link to the Al Hilli post;


  495. Thanks Katy. I forgot the thread began in Fall 2012 and started plowing through. It’s much later in the thread.

  496. Flying into a known storm (Capt on rest)
    Junior pilot remains flying
    Pitot tube obstructed
    Side stick (it is an airbus) pulled back by junior pilot (right seat)
    FMC can not calculate further so shuts down
    ACARS sends multiple error messages
    Capt returns but does not take control (third seat)
    Right seat pilot pushes forward.
    Left seat is still pulling back
    stall, stall, stall,

    You can read the actual finds …or read the crap you clearly believe.

  497. You will not believe the excuse they have come up for making no further attempts in recovering the plane wreckage, it is so unbelievable it will most likely join the ranks of “Best Bulldust for 2014″

    The plane crash now sits on A VOLCANO :-)

    “..The cluster of suspected debris from Malaysian Airlines flight MH370 has been sighted above a giant undersea chain of volcanoes whose complex terrain has barely been charted…”


  498. Thx for that Kenneth. I’m not ready to declare him ‘Jesuit Revolutionary’, but he has been on the scent for reform.

  499. Well good luck to you Ben, I find the search engine useless, you’ll need ‘some time’ to find anything amongst the thousands of comments !

  500. Hahaha well done Donald, the script for this movie just gets better & better !

  501. Donald
    25 Mar, 2014 – 11:40 am thanks for that. It replicates a view I took here and was attacked for I seem to remember!!!!

  502. “Chinese journalists covering the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 from Canberra are furious at what they see as Australian government control of the media.
    On Sunday, two Chinese crews decided to chase Deputy Prime Minister Warren Truss into a car park at the Australian Maritime Safety Authority after being denied access to an AMSA briefing attended by Australian media.
    The crews held an impromptu interview with Mr Truss but have complained at being ”locked out” of any chance to put questions to AMSA boss John Young. On Monday, AMSA posted a security guard at the front of its headquarters.
    George Yang, the chief correspondent for Hong Kong’s Phoenix Satellite Television, said he had been asked to prove his credentials while he prepared to do a cross from public land. ”This wouldn’t even happen in China,” Yang said.”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/chinese-journalists-say-they-are-being-locked-out-of-amsa-media-briefings-20140324-35e8o.html#ixzz2wzMzNGuR

  503. Good one
    Kenneth Sorensen
    25 Mar, 2014 – 12:56 pm! I really must drag myself away.

  504. Katie – This of course makes it impossible to find the black box, even if they say they found it the excuse will most likely be that some undersea eruption cooked it to smithereens, or perhaps the volcanic heat wiped the drive or maybe some Neptune-like creature poked it with a trident and made it unreadable. :-)

  505. Manual control to overcome hydraulics? When hydraulics fail, the controls are tremendously difficult, as I understand it. If you had to fight the pressure of hydraulics, that would seem impossible.


    “There is a question of whether the takeover of the FMCS by some means would disable the cockpit controls, preventing the flight crew from regaining control of the aircraft. If the controls have direct mechanical linkages to the hydraulic systems, then the crew could probably overcome automated control by simply applying more force to the controls. However, if something had incapacitated or killed the flight crew and passengers first, then the FMCS presumably could have flown the planes into the targets without interference. It is not difficult to imagine a scenario by which the cabin could have been filled with a potent gas at a predetermined point in its flight. For example, the fact that cabin pressure varies as a predictable function of altitude would allow a barometric-triggered device to go off at a predetermined point in a flight.”

  506. Time’s a wastin’ on the flight recorder. Does the cockpit recorder have the same battery life?

  507. Donald

    Or its was “disabled” at the turn West.
    Along with SATCOM, ACARS, radio etc, etc, etc.

  508. Ben wrote:

    Chinese journalists covering the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 from Canberra are furious at what they see as Australian government control of the media.

    -which got me thinking. Australia is part of the “5 eyes” – the five anglophone countries that won the Second World War [among others - not least the USSR], and I know the psychology of all nations, and it has not been difficult to ascertain that Australia is proud of being a subordinate of the US Marshall – responsible for keeping law and order in the South India and Pacific Oceans. So America can rely on Australia, now that the crime scene litteraly has washed up on its shores. And that’s why it has been transferred to Australia, away from the mess that countries like Malaysia can make of things.

  509. Re “hacking an aircraft”.

    Solution….”just turn off A/P and fly manually” ! It’s that simple.

  510. James – My info reads that there were massive waves of between 4 and 9 meters which made it ‘unsafe’ for our gallant navy to stay in the area.

    “Due to rough seas, HMAS Success departed the search area early this morning and is now in transit south of the search area until seas abate,”


    Poor sailors, it must have been hellish conditions

    Never mind that our Melbourne/Tasmania ferry only ever turns back from the world’s roughest seas when the waves reach heights of 20 meters … and that was years ago :-)


  511. Katie…

    Low level…. and icing.
    That’ll get your feet wet for sure.

    Then you’ll have a B777 to find and a P3 !

  512. Kenneth; Australia has been formatted to the proper program.


    “Boyce, the son of a security chief at McDonnell Douglas, along with childhood friend Andrew Daulton Lee, were raised in the affluent seaside community of Palos Verdes Peninsula near Los Angeles. In 1974, Boyce was hired at TRW, a Southern California aerospace firm in Redondo Beach, California. His father, in his position as an aerospace security officer, was able to help his son obtain employment. Boyce eventually was promoted to a sensitive job in TRW’s “Black Vault” (classified communications center) with a top secret security clearance.
    Boyce claims that he began getting misrouted cables from the Central Intelligence Agency discussing the CIA’s desire to depose the government of Prime Minister Gough Whitlam in Australia. Boyce claimed the CIA wanted Whitlam removed from office because he wanted to close U.S. military bases in Australia, including the vital Pine Gap secure communications facility, and withdraw Australian troops from Vietnam. For these reasons some claim that U.S. government pressure was a major factor in the dismissal of Whitlam as prime minister by the governor general, Sir John Kerr, who according to Boyce, was referred to as our man Kerr by CIA officers.[1] Through the cable traffic Boyce saw that the CIA was involving itself in such a manner, not just with Australia but with other democratic, industrialized allies. Boyce considered going to the press, but believed the media’s earlier disclosure of CIA involvement in the 1973 Chilean coup d’état had not changed anything for the better.[citation needed]

  513. Sorry, Donald not Katie. My mistake.

  514. Kenneth, our media is not controlled by the government, don’t know what makes you think that but you are very, very wrong, in fact we have the world’s most independently minded news outlets.

    Thing is how do you expect the media to get its news on MH 370, it’s not as if they get to seat on the wing of an air force search plane or the bow or the navy’s ships .. In this case they, just like the rest of us, are bound by whatever story they are given.

  515. James, agreed on the icing bit, no need to lose one of our own planes on an operation that is only looking for bodies. best to let it go and come back when it’s nice and sunny.

    If we lose sight of the wreckage then tough, easy enough to find later on anyway, apparently it’s sitting on top of a huge volcano, can’t be that hard to find again.

    Good night, I’m off :-)

  516. As to truth in advertising in our handlers.

    Even when we have CSI’s from several agencies, sworn to tell the truth, we can’t get straight answers.


  517. Ben, there are two al-Hilli threads, of course.

  518. @Donald 3:12 pm: Of course it sits on a volcano. I’d posted about the Sukhoi’s crash into a volcano, and Russia’s stance on who was responsible. Here’s another take on that story:


    Nah, the volcano did it!

  519. Q; Thx. I got discouraged when I saw so many I remember who have left CM permanently.

  520. So we are moving into two new theories: the Amelia-Earhart type, Bermuda Triangle, volcanic force field, and the pitot tubes being blocked by ice? Nothing like recycling a good plot line. Gives handlers more time to scrub old news stories, instead of wasting valuable time on a more credible scenario.

    Now Ben, why did you have to go and mention Pine Gap?


    This leads around in a circle to a relative (a geophysicist for the USGS, who protested at Pine Gap) of deceased scientist Lachlan Cranswick. Cranswick, originally from Melbourne, who worked at a nuclear facility in Canada in neutron beam research and X-ray crystallography.

    Cranswick also spent time in the map room at Columbia University. Remote sensing, or geomatics, uses some of the techniques that Cranswick specialized in, although there is nothing in writing to connect him to that field.

    It has been months since I’ve mentioned him on the al-Hilli threads, and now here I go again.

  521. If you get all caught up in the Pine Gap article, perhaps remembering that neutron beams emit a blue light will bring you back to earth.

  522. This, from the conspiratorial Popular Mechanics, Q.


    “How It’s Unique: Pine Gap’s collection of eight or so radomes and its remote location have sparked many UFO-related rumors, both in Australia and abroad. The main function of Pine Gap is to monitor any missile activity in the region and relay intelligence to U.S. and Australian forces. Schulz points out there are certain military installations, like Pine Gap or HAARP, that can only operate effectively in certain geographical areas. “Even though they’re in terrible environments, some portion of that land is strategically important,” he says. In 2009, the Australian Department of Defence announced plans to upgrade antiquated equipment at the facility, indicating that Pine Gap has a long future ahead of it.”

  523. Infrared sats. Heat signature from rogue jet made no impression?

    “There is a second aspect of Pine Gap’s activities, which was never envisaged by the government that allowed its establishment. Following the closure of the U.S. base at Nurrungar in 1999, Pine Gap has hosted a remote ground station for several generations of U.S. early warning satellites. Powerful infrared telescopes on geostationary satellites detect the thermal signature of ballistic missile launches.”

    Read more: http://nautilus.org/publications/books/australian-forces-abroad/defence-facilities/pine-gap/pine-gap-intro/#ixzz2wzfIlLik
    Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
    Follow us: @Nautilus_Inst on Twitter

  524. Q; “The scientists interrogated a closed container with nuclear material inside and an empty closed container and then compared the results. They found that the laser-driven-neutron-interrogation method not only confirmed the presence of nuclear material, but it told them the quantity as well.”

    They certainly have the capacity, but do they exercise the will? Granny gets a body-cavity search, but somehow human error is responsible when the system doesn’t work.

  525. http://www.smh.com.au/world/burmax2019s-nuclear-secrets-20090731-e4fv.html

    Would a commercial airliner be used for trafficking in nuclear weapons? No more outrageous than other theories.

  526. I think this WPO article gives a good laymans explanation of how Inmarsat arrived at the “Southern corridor”. It also makes the point that no aircraft debris has actually been found and certainly not the plane itself.


  527. Wheels within wheels. TRINITY fruits.


    “From most accounts, the Kang Nam 1 is a rusty old freighter, inching along at a paltry 10 knots an hour. By Thursday, it was believed to be chugging through Chinese or Taiwanese waters, having left the North Korean port of Nampo a week ago, and headed, according to the South Korean press, to the Burmese port of Thilawa. Its cargo is unknown; Burma’s state newspaper claims authorities expect the arrival of a “rice-bearing” North Korean vessel, though most news reports suspect the Kang Nam 1 bears a load of small arms and other conventional weapons. North Korea, whose people have lived on the verge of famine for decades, is not a known food exporter.

    What it does export is invariably shrouded in mystery. Pyongyang exists frozen outside the global economy and raises funds through a host of backdoor activities, including the manufacture of counterfeit money and dissemination of its military secrets and technological capabilities to a whole network of dubious customers.”

  528. Obama speaks from the Hague.

    “”So my response then continues to be what I believe today, which is: Russia’s actions are a problem. They don’t pose the number one national security threat to the United States. I continue to be much more concerned when it comes to our security with the prospect of a nuclear weapon going off in Manhattan,” said Obama.”

    He’s a conspiracy nutter.

  529. On topic ! This is the topic right ?


    The captain of Flight 370 was in no state of mind to fly the day it disappeared and could have taken the Boeing 777 for a “last joyride” before crashing into the Indian Ocean, a fellow pilot says.

    Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah’s world was crumbling, said the long-time associate. He had been facing serious family problems, including separation from his wife and relationship problems with another woman he was seeing.

    The man, who spoke to the Herald on condition of anonymity, said Captain Zaharie was “terribly upset” when his wife told him she was leaving and believed he may have decided to take the Malaysia Airlines plane to a part of the world he had never flown in.

  530. Yes James. Pilot suicide is still in the mix, along with the Bermuda Triangle, alien transport and hacking of command/control.

    What was the last dazed and confused ACARS receipt…7 hours? He sure had buyers remorse.

  531. Ben

    So is “Iranian missiles launched by radical Jews on the behest of Hamerica” ?

    You go for it pal !

  532. On the Silk Air crash (pilot suicide/murder)

    The NTSB unambiguously declared: ‘Of greatest concern are the statement that “the NTSC is unable to find the reasons for the departure of the aircraft from its cruising level of FL 350 and the reasons for the stoppage of the flight recorders”

    and that

    the “investigation has yielded no evidence to explain the cause of the accident.”

    Indonesia “refused” the investigations finding of pilot suicide (not including murder) on cultural grounds.

    If this “is” pilot suicide, he’s also made a mockery of his employer and the current political “regime” in Malaysia

  533. I understand the thread of motivation you are weaving, and agree it’s a 3-strikes decision, but still….he flew on (or he chose death by hypoxia and set fbw until fuel ran out) for 7 hours?

    This is your hypothesis in vitro? BTIM you are sectoring that theory despite the lackluster attempts, feebly wanking their news releases with possible explanations ad infinitum, (just as we sometimes do here) with all our superb sat resolution, even with night-vision capability, no data was stored to enlighten further?

  534. BTW; My 4 night-vision cameras w/2TB dvr, can record all four for 30 days before overwrite.

    Seems a trifle, in comparison.

  535. So the others theories are ?

    Fire onboard ? Impossible.
    Catastrophic failure ? Impossible.
    Mechanical failure causing hypoxia ? Impossible.

    The aircraft has navigated whilst “out of contact”.

  536. Q
    25 Mar, 2014 – 2:31 pm at the risk of being shouted down from a certain quarter, I agree with you re. Chevaline Q. We had very conflicting indicators there as we know. (WBM couldn’t. PD/B could but only if he went back down the valley) Then there was SAH with TWO mobiles a SOP for those engaged in spystuff. The 3.48 call again which has never been satisfactorily located to identified individual. The after photos show satellite dish for communication on a police vehicle so access to satellite obviously not out of the question. Undoubtedly the killing team would have been issued with latest state of the art communication equipment that could have included satellite phones made by Motorola perhaps?

  537. You appear to be on the wrong forum again dear chap.
    So “f*** **f”

  538. James; Are you familiar with facts on TWA 800 investigation?

  539. Q
    25 Mar, 2014 – 2:45 pm and Donald

    Is this what you were after????


  540. @Ben 25 Mar, 2014 – 3:26 pm
    “Time’s a wastin’ on the flight recorder. Does the cockpit recorder have the same battery life?”

    The pinging device is external to the recorder box. There are several manufacturers with different specs — loudness and ping frequency which determines detectable range. They all guarantee a minimum battery life of 30 days for full power output, but that doesn’t mean they suddenly stop pinging at 30 days. Some may continue longer at full power and then gradually taper off in intensity. One story said a recorder box was found still active after 50 days.

  541. ” One story said a recorder box was found still active after 50 days.”


    That explains the stalling. It’s been what, 18 days, and they are predicting the new=fangled sonar search will commence in 7-10 days?

    Human error and bureaucracy; useful twin idiots.

  542. @katie 25 Mar, 2014 – 8:32 am
    “I’ve had another thought about that muffled or was it mumbled [which could change with translation] message the Vietnamese mentioned…now denied.”

    It’s denied or discredited in some accounts and still active in others. One report mentioned Vietnamese ATC asked all aircraft in the area to try and contact MH370 and many did, receiving no response; the reply was that one reported as “mumbled”.

  543. James; Are you familiar with facts on TWA 800 investigation?
    Yeah…? But that’s not Silk Air or MAS 307.
    I do love the “one liners” that are thrown in…

    I also know the Gulf of Tonkin, the change to the German Mark, and Dr Kelly.
    All “causes” of war (although blamed on other things….)

    But lets take your point…and throw out “America” in the investigation of anything.
    This investigation will be Australian.

    Have you ever read their report on Silk Air ?
    They go further than the NTSB.
    Indonesia tried the same trick….and Malaysia will try to do the same trick.

    I am all for “ongoing checks” on pilots. I think they need it.

    As a “point”… there are pilots I refuse to fly with. They are “incapable”.
    I get that choice (in private).
    They usually end there careers flying (hopefully) for BIG JET. And hopefully they get “pulled” and ditched and ditched by the big corporates.

    But for F/S don’t pull the “do you know TWA 800″ trick.
    The NTSB found “probable cause” it was/has not been confirmed.

    Call Clinton an ask him ! Mind you he kept Bush at bay, and God only knows what he would have been up to if Clinton was beaten (second term) !

  544. James
    25 Mar, 2014 – 3:06 pm You say:

    “This guy is NUTS !”

    “The bomb was loaded onto the aircraft at Heathrow by the “PFPL”.”

    Oh James you’ll strain your brain trying to pick holes. Are you OBSESSED with me or not? Everyone KNOWS the former was shot down and the latter was a bomb on board. The first was DEFINITELY an example of the Americans shooting down a civilian aircraft. The second the jury is still out but likely at the very least to have CIA involvement. THAT IS THE POINT not pathetic semantics.

    u say “Just like your “piece” on AF447. Totally wrong.”

    How can it be totally wrong when its verbatim from the the recovered flight recorder? You claim to be a pilot too? Some pilot.

    Think you are the “GUY WHO IS NUTS”

  545. Tim

    Your “piece” wasn’t the transmissions !

    Nor was it the report !

    It was crap.

    Have you actually read the transcript ?

    Have you actually read the final report ?

  546. “The bomb was loaded onto the aircraft at Heathrow by the “PFPL”.”

    That was Lockerbie by the way !
    You believe it was “Libya” ????

    Read the court transcripts.

    Read the “refusal” to appeal to go to the high court

    You MISS facts Tim *and you’re a nutter)

  547. “Everyone KNOWS the former was shot down and the latter was a bomb on board. The first was DEFINITELY an example of the Americans shooting down a civilian aircraft”

    LOCKERBIE !!!!!

    You’re odd ! Way odd !

  548. “But for F/S don’t pull the “do you know TWA 800″ trick.
    The NTSB found “probable cause” it was/has not been confirmed.”

    You sure buried that lede. FFS how many witnesses were dismissed because their observations did not fit the criteria? You certainly have a great deal of trust in Federal investigations.

  549. James
    25 Mar, 2014 – 3:12 pm why don’t you just give the hell up ?

    I KNOW that’s what happened. I have read the transcript of the investigation as well.

    I can’t be bothered talking to u

  550. Donald
    25 Mar, 2014 – 3:12 pm fantastic excuses were a feature of Chevaline as well as you probably know.

  551. In spite of analyzing Doppler shift, which convinced Inmarsat that the plane flew the southern arc, it appears determination of the final crash site is still calculated on assumptions about when it ran out of fuel.

    How can they know that if the aircraft went up to +40,000 feet, then dropped to 12,000 and/or 5,000 feet. Or are those stories also discredited or denied or retracted, and where did they originate?

    If the pilots took it down to 12,000 feet, how did it get back to normal cruising altitude and speed along the southern arc? Doppler analysis shows it was traveling at 450 nmph, it’s normal cruising speed.

    Several reports say the Doppler analysis compared MH370 to other 777s flying “the exact same track” which I thought unusual since we’re told the area is isolated. The Washington Post blog (ref above), explains the comparison was to 777 tracks at the same time — not the exact same track — and that verified the theory. Another example of sloppy reporting.

    There’s still the question of why not a single Emergency Locater Beacon — which transmit to a satellite network and are activated by salt water — was activated? If the plane crashed violently and broke apart, at least one of these should transmit.

  552. A little levity. Linguistics in commercial flight—(disclaimer-angrarian George Carlin)


  553. Ben

    I have no trust in “federal investigations”.

    Tell me, what “facts” do you “trust” ?

    Odd rants on the internet by the likes of oddballs like “TimV” ?
    Have you read his shite ?

    Seriously you cannot be as barking as he is ? Surely.

  554. “I have no trust in “federal investigations”.”

    When someone asks a question, in answer to a question, I generally find evasion is the key.

    You seemed to swallow the NTSB flounder, whole, whilst it was the FBI elbowing their way in.

    Are you sure you are familiar with the facts?

  555. Ohhh !

    It was a question Ben ! Why don’t like questions ?

    Ah. I state something, you question.
    You state nada, I don’t get to ask ? I get it

    In the days gone by, we use to use the word “crank”.
    Now I guess we can’t say that.

  556. Ben…

    Best bet. Stick to “cut n paste”. I see you like that.
    No facts. No idea. Just “click and slide and paste that baby”
    No “thinking” needed !

  557. Oh… here we go !

    Disagree with Ben and he “fires out” “EVERYONE…HE’S AN AGENT OF THE NEW WORLD ORDER” !

    Classic. (no answers, just classic behaviour).

    NEXT !

  558. Q
    25 Mar, 2014 – 4:15 pm glad you haven’t given up on Cranswick and the Melbourne connection. I’m still swooning over the SST/Freescale/Huawei/Shane Todd/Saad al Hilli connection not to mention the duplicate B777/Israel embassy closure/israeli suggestion plane stolen by iran for terror attack/Garcia closed for business/statement everyone dead before any identifiable wreckage found/”nothing to see all move on there”

    Then again I was thinking, rather like Chevaline, the best laid plans and all that. What if the intended plan didn’t quite work out. Lets assume Crashed into Gulf of Thailand can’t be found” whilst plane slips off somewhere else. Ruined by “blips” evidence. Now we have to dispose of plane completely – southern ocean they’ll never find it there. On top of a volcano even better.

    So on dates 15th March of course is significant “Beware the ides of March” so I checked to see and got this: The first one particularly but also note they didn’t give up on the northern search until the inmarsat info. which had been held back.

    “March 15: It is reported that a British satellite system operated by Inmarsat received an automated signal from flight MH370 at least five hours after the plane was reported lost.
    March 15: Vietnam ends search for the missing jet since nothing is found in the South China Sea.
    March 15: Police search the homes of pilot Captain Zaharie Ahmed Shah and co-pilot Fariq Abdul Hamid and find a personal flight simulator in Zaharie’s residence.
    March 15: The Thai navy suspends its search over the Gulf of Thailand and Andaman Sea.
    March 15: India intensifies efforts by deploying additional naval and air assets for searching an expanded area in central and east Bay of Bengal and the Andaman Sea.”

    The 15th March was also a significant Chinese anniversary

    2003 – Hu Jintao takes over presidency for the People’s Republic of China.

    Now I’m starting to wonder if the original plan wasn’t a terror attack on the 15th claiming it was the hi jacked plane that had to be aborted given the pesky inmarsat intervention.

    Pure speculation but you know how these ppl like dates and anniversaries. Might set a few hares running.

  559. For those unfamiliar with the Ides of March it was that date Julius Caesar was stabbed to death by Brutus. There are some interesting anniversaries for both the 8th and 15th see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_8

  560. Q
    25 Mar, 2014 – 4:15 pm “Mind the Gap!” “Mind the Gap!”

  561. James
    25 Mar, 2014 – 10:55 pm we all can see you’re an ignorant git James and stupid with it. More than that you seem intent on misinterpreting what I say to conclude it is rubbish and me with it. Presumably this fulfils your defined task to seed dissension on the thread, to undermine the credibility of everyone but yourself, to twist and malign anything you have a mind to or when ever anyone one gets close to what actually happened. You are a confounded nuisance and it doesn’t surprise me that the two places you say you originate from are long-standing loci of conflict and violence. Isn’t it time you just flew out of here and left us in peace?

  562. This sister plane information makes sense of the reported sighting over the Maldives. The two eye witness accounts that I read said that the plane came from the NW and headed SE.
    If a sister plane, set up as a drone assuming it was crashed, left the Middle East at about the same time as MH370 was taken over it would have been in that area at that time. The media put out the eye witness accounts just for long enough to turn our attentions to the southern arc and Diego Garcia.
    Meanwhile the stolen aircraft could have been spirited North, that’s if the Imersat arc information is true, or anywhere if it is not.
    The stolen plane would then take the place of the crashed “sister”.

  563. China first (mistakenly) reported a satellite image of debris and also acoustic data of a sea-floor event in the same original area. They were the first to supply another satellite image of debris in the current search location, off Perth. That was backed by French radar satellite data. Since then nothing. No other country reports anything, other than UK and Inmarsat.

    “The numbers vary among estimates, but there are between 3,200 to 3,500 functioning artificial satellites in Earth orbit. Russia has the greatest number at around 1,437. The U.S. is second with 1,099 satellites in orbit.”

    “As of 2008, the former Soviet Union and Russia had nearly 1,400 satellites in orbit, the USA about 1,000, Japan more than 100, China about 80, France over 40, India more than 30, Germany almost 30, the UK and Canada 25, and at least ten each from Italy, Australia, Indonesia, Brazil, Sweden, Argentina, Saudi Arabia, and South Korea. Some satellites, called microsats, nanosats, or picosats, can be as small as 10 cm (3.937 inches) in diameter and 0.1 kg (0.22 pounds) in mass.”

    What happened to DigitalGlobe and its Tomnod crowd-sourcing?

    Surely a few of the above, especially spy satellites, would cover the area of interest and there’s enough time elapsed to allow analysis of data. Why didn’t spy satellites tasked with monitoring the entire electromagnetic spectrum detect the ACARS pings/handshakes from the plane?

  564. I received a reply from Cgristopher

    Christopher Bollyn to Kenneth Sørensen

    Dear Kenneth,

    Thank you for this information. Looks like they may have some kind of evil deception planned.

    Christopher Bollyn

    Here are the exact quotes I sent him. [Clearly the most substantial thing that has come out of this thread since it started. It’s a breathtaking find, and normal, honest people (i.e. not evil) have naturally great difficulties in figuring out what this is all about, and what this identical extra plane can be used for. However I think the mission has been aborted, because due to the information-level today — no least thanks to the uncontrollanle internet — Israel cannoy pull off another 9/11, and the US (Who do have their own capabilities — enhanced since 9/11 – when it comes to snooping and findingh out what’s going on) may have called Israel to order abd forced them to abort mission.



    Regarding debris (conspiracy)????
    A Malaysian Airlines sister airplane Boeing 777-200 was sold to GA Telesis and was then re-registered and sent to Tel Aviv on 4/11/13 where it was stored until …. ??????
    Malaysian Air 777 manufacturer serial number 28416 registered as 9M-MRI was sold to GA Telesis on 10/21/2013 and now registered as N105GT. So the image below shows this aircraft still registered as 9M-MRI and stored at Tarbes Lourdes Pyrenees on 04/10/2013, and then on 04/11/2013 it’s re-registered as N105GT and stored at Tel Aviv.

  565. FRIDAY, MARCH 14 – The hunt spreads west to the Indian Ocean after the White House cites unspecified “new information” that the jet may have flown on after losing contact.

    March 16, 2014: “What happened to this aircraft, nobody knows. My guess is based upon the stolen passports, and I believe Iran was involved,” he said. “They hijacked the aircraft and they landed it in a place that nobody can see or find it.”

    Is Srulik miffed that Uncle Sam kept him in the dark? Or is Israel correct and the aircraft has been stolen. President Obama makes this statement at the G7 Nuclear Summit in Brussels: “I continue to be much more concerned when it comes to our security with the prospect of a nuclear weapon going off in Manhattan.”

    Is the search in the Indian Ocean a distraction from what really happened. 80% of the media now accept a crash at sea as hard fact and concentrate on the search for wreckage. 20% still question how it’s a known fact, based only on the Inmarsat theory (which they now admit is based on estimates of remaining fuel for final location on the arc).

    One commentator said some experts are even questioning Inmarsat’s analysis via Doppler Effect and the same result can be obtained by the plane flying in a circle. I don’t understand the reasoning and could find nothing about it on the web.

    The Inmarsat pings/handshakes are still variously reported as approximately one per hour or one per half-hour. The WSJ has a story on the last partial-ping which Inmarsat says it’s still trying to understand.

  566. Forgive me if this is already covered but in an article in the Guardian it states that the northern route was not eliminated by a a refinement of the Inmarsat data, as implied by Malasian press conference but by inference in that “there were no correlating reports from civil defence units monitoring borders” to support a southern route.
    But there were no correlating reports from civil defence units supporting the southern route either?

    Since absence of data from systems of unknown status at the time of the event and unknown official secret policy, then if Charles Arthur of the Guardian is correct, the Northern route has not been fully ruled out.


  567. Rob Royston
    26 Mar, 2014 – 2:38 am

    Those sightings in the Maldives are key, they very fact they’ve been silenced is suspicious because the last figure I read was 12 witnesses.
    To ignore them as false is an insult to those people.

    It would seem that because the ‘authorities’ cannot fit such a thing as a low flying plane into their scenario of what happened they prefer to believe 12 liars reside in the Maldives.

    NR, you clearly understand the technical side of all this, so can I ask, the doppler effect can only be felt/heard when a plane is travelling ?
    Originally those pings were said to be coming purely from the aircraft………….airborne or stationary,now are they saying they were DEFINITELY sure they came from an airborne plane ?

    Likewise, didn’t they originally say there was no way of knowing, location ,height or speed of pinging aircraft ?

    Another thing, I understand the ping is a signal … could what they are calling the ‘doppler’ effect, in this case, simply be an echo & nothing to do with speed or movement ?

    Just supposing the plane was in a hangar [ or underground ] at DG , do hangars have metal walls, could the ping be bouncing off them creating an echo ?

    My feeling is Imaarset who have said this is new technology , could have it wrong

  568. INTP1

    I see that article is now saying 8 pings, at first it was 5 then 6…can we expect 9 tomorrow ?

    Yes the Malaysians said at yesterdays press conference that all searching had been terminated in the northern corridor & around Thailand.

  569. That’s right. Intp1. It is typical of the [Ameican] establish,emt that rules the world, that they want to find a [quick] solution and move on. And explanation that can put the matter to rest, so that the relatives can move on. If Americans are involved in this deception it must be in order to — again, again — cover the asses of the Israelis, who no doubt again had been scheeming like they did on that fateful September day in 2001. To put the matter at rest in the waters off [the orderly] Australias coast, and in one of the remotest spots on this Earth, with miles of depth and an underwater volcano on top of it, seems ideal.

    And now the matter has been put to rest, nobody should be asking ackward questiona as for what the hihacked plane was intented to do. In the ACKWARD ZIONIST MIND, IT PROBABLY WOULD HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH IRAN.

  570. @katie 26 Mar, 2014 – 6:59 am
    The Doppler Effect depends upon the source (plane) moving away from or toward the receiver (satellite). There’d be no effect (frequency shift + or – ) if the plane was stationary on the ground and the satellite was in a geo-synchonus orbit, appearing stationary from the earth.

    However, I’ve seen Inmarsat saying one time the satellite was a geo-synchonus one above the equator and another time that it was over the Indian Ocean, which would only be true if it was a polar orbit satellite, and thus moving.

    It’s likely this is mis-reporting and if it was a polar orbit satellite, Inmarsat almost certainly took into account it’s movement. As I said above some experts claim the findings could be duplicated, in theory, by a plane flying in a circle. Don’t yet understand this.

  571. Some readers’ comments from RT.

    1. On locating the wreck, if all else fails: “Finally, secret intelligence from nuclear submarines may be used, if that can be done without revealing their sophisticated instruments or the location of these clandestine vessels.”

    2. On radar profile: “Even with the transponder OFF, the radar cross section of a Boeing 777 with its two huge engines is enormous, entirely visible to all commercial and military radar stations, that large blip simply wouldn’t show MH370 and the altitude marker from the transponder squawk.”

    3. “Either both Indonesia,Singapore are seriously lying regarding the actual route that MH370 took OR that airliner didn’t take the widely pushed Southern Route down to the worst possible recovery area in the Southern Hemisphere.”

    “The turbine vanes on the huge 777 engines both reflect a radar image like 2 huge spotlights, impossible to miss.”

    4. “Mother Russia is the strongest the most powerful nation in history! Russia knows how to find the plane instantly!”

  572. BLUEBIRD yesterday produced the most substantial revelation, that yet have come out of this thread.


    Upon sending it to Christopher,
    I received this reply

    Christopher Bollyn to Kenneth Sørensen

    Dear Kenneth,

    Thank you for this information. Looks like they may have some kind of evil deception planned.

    Christopher Bollyn

  573. katie 26 Mar, 2014 – 6:59 am
    “Likewise, didn’t they originally say there was no way of knowing, location ,height or speed of pinging aircraft?”

    That was when they were talking only of the pings themselves, not their change in frequency — before somebody thought of using the Doppler Effect to detect speed and direction. I’m not clear on how they’re finding altitude. Inmarsat said it was flying at normal cruising altitude. There may be an indirect indication of that.

    Echoes would not introduce Doppler frequency shift unless whatever the pings reflected from was moving.

    One CNN expert called for Inmarsat to release the calculations so they could be checked by others.

  574. Way off topic, but Jeffrey Epstein‘s name came up way back, when we were discussing two lusty Generals, Tampa socialites, Ms. Emma Sayles and Kate Middleton.

    “The former philandering president has been named in one-time pal Jeffrey Epstein‘s sleazy sex lawsuit, and the allegations are disturbing.”

  575. http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/24/world/europe/summit-plane-intercept/

    Boeing 777 intercepted by dutch airforce ….

    There seems to be a 777-200 ghost-fleet in the air right now …. :)
    Was it a test?

  576. Sorrensen, Obama’s mouth is playing up again !

    Challenging Putin like that is totally irresponsible.


    Thanks, I realise the doppler effect is not the same as an echo, I just wondered if Inmarsat have mistaken or could have misread the info they’ve received.
    The chap I heard on TV, said they had to work ‘backwards’ from the pings, so that would mean the doppler sound would be from the previous ping.
    An echo has an echo has echo…………..

    I know this is all way above me but sometimes naive questions can throw up some unthought of ideas.
    If a plane is pinging a satellite as it’s travelling at high speed ,then surely it will ping a different satellite 2/4/6 hours later so why are they talking about the doppler effect at all ?

    Really why we should believe them when we know any number of satellites/radar must have picked up this plane, long before this.

    I know when we use to sail across the channel in a small 30ft boat, in the old days, we always used a radar reflector for ships to see us at night.
    A simple thing at the top of the mast & they worked.

    To believe that something like like a 777 was not spotted zipping around changing height, way off course in a highly sensitive region makes a mockery of all the information we are being fed.

    This mornings press conference now under way.

  577. So Obama is going on a ‘pre’ planned trip to Malayasia in a few weeks time, I bet all the radar will be working efficiently for his flight across that region !

  578. @katie 26 Mar, 2014 – 9:34 am

    It’s way beyond me too. I think what they meant by working backward was like reverse engineering, not that they went backward in time from a ping to the previous one.

    Since the satellites appear stationary above the earth, and there are three of them to cover the entire earth, for a plane traveling north or south it would use the same satellite. If it was traveling east or west it would change satellites at the point where coverage overlapped, like mobile phones connecting to the nearest tower.

    I read a bit from a physics professor who worked on one satellite system. It’s astoundingly complicated: the earth isn’t a sphere, but fatter at the equator; synchronous satellites don’t exactly stay in one place, they drift about slightly in a figure-eight pattern; solar winds; variations in gravity; etc., etc.

    He didn’t know if all these factors were taken into account by Inmarsat and if they weren’t how much error they’d cause in the final position of the crash.

    I’d guess that Inmarsat, being a satellite company did take them into account. Plus their calculations were checked by other experts.

  579. Hello everybody:

    My topic for today shall be radio communications and signals jamming by the Chinese; It appears that on the night of the disappearance for MH 370 many areas of the world had their radio and TV signals jammed.


    In Egypt a TV station also had its satellite signals jammed, the Egyptian government was blamed for it although no proof was found; but what I found more interesting (no link as yet) is that Ham Radio Operators reported jamming signals from the South East Asia area.

    I’ve also found out that although most of the passengers on MH-370 could not make mobile phone calls, the entertainment system in the first class area did indeed provide its passengers with the ability to make Satellite based phone calls. (Unless an outside source jammed them)

  580. For those of you who might understand about Ham radio broadcasting/listening this page might be interesting, specifically some of the signals mentioned in the bottom of the page.


  581. With regards the Inmersat data I fail to understand just how miniscule a difference seven signals 420 Kilometers apart from each other would make to a satellite 35,000 Kilometers away.

    The angle of the signals as they reach the satellite would be so small that I doubt if any equipment would even measure it. But if it were measurable then the curvature of the earth plus the fact that the plane is not truly flying a straight path would make any measurements null.

    And on top of that the atmospheric refractions of the signals would make all the little differences all look alike .. I can’t see it being possible to get accurate measurements as it is said they did, I’d love to see their maths, anyone seen them?

  582. Hi Donald, funny you should post on that , see this guy, he’s a reviled politician in the UK, but he has regularly commented on Twitter that the plane is in DG.
    Today he’s saying this:

    george galloway ‏@GeorgeTGalloway 1h
    #USA military blocked d radars, jammed mobile phones & Hijacked #MH370 to #DiegoGarcia(8:20 am ,March 8). Everything else is propaganda/lies

    This is the first time I’ve ever agreed something he’s said.

  583. George Galloway on Iran Air Flight 655
    Iran Air Flight 655, also known as IR655, was a civilian airliner shot down by US missiles on 3 July 1988, over the Strait of Hormuz.


  584. Hello Katie: The day after the disappearance a blogger commented that as the airplane was climbing another “ping” could be seen departing from a ship below it, as if a plane had taken off from an aircraft carrier. after MH-370 made its turn west the other plane supposedly descended back to the ship. I thought nothing of it at the time and so never gave my bot a link to it. I shall look into it.

    They are now saying that they have found 122 new objects in 400 Km area in the Indian Ocean … unfortunately the weather .. you know, as usual no one can get near it. :-)

    More than likely a bunch of seats dropped from a plane to give the sea some decor … for the reporters, they need pretty pictures :-)

  585. The site in the link below offers some good questions for bloggers to tap into.

    1)Since the first class passengers on MH370 had access to the internet, is it possible to check their Facebook, Tweeter pages to see if any of them left a message in them?

    2) Could Diego Garcia have been the target of a terrorist plot using this plane? Could you imagine a US naval base having to choose whether to shoot down a fully-loaded civilian airliner out of the sky?


  586. Donald, this certainly would explain why no phone calls were received.

    No one mentioned an aircraft carrier [ except me asking why not ] in the region, if this is true then why is it not used in the reconnaissance ?
    Why have journalists not asked this question ?

    So…..the second plane can’t be the one Bluebird has mentioned because a 777 couldn’t take off from an aircraft carrier.

  587. The blogger in question mentioned four separate bleeps on the radar showing no transponder signals, one of them lifted from the surface of the sea, climbed rapidly towards MH-370 and then came back down again after MH-370 made it turn westwards .. whether this is true or not I am not sure. I have a good understanding of how radar signals work but no working knowledge of radar maps.

    While I’m at it, Diego Garcia’s radar has a 900 Km working range and apparently it always has fighter planes circling its territory thus increasing the range. Perhaps someone could check on it.

  588. The latest Malaysian announcement:

    ” In the East sector, searches will be conducted by:

    · one Australian P3 Orion, and three Australian civilian aircraft.

    · one Chinese Ilyushin IL-76.

    · one New Zealand P3 Orion.

    In the West sector, searches will be conducted by:
    · one US P8 Poseidon.

    · one Korean P3 Orion.

    · one Japanese P3 Orion.

    · two Australian P3 Orions, and one civilian aircraft.

    Two ships will also join the search operations.

    Yesterday ‘HMAS Success’ was redeployed to the south of the search area due to bad weather. Today the ship has returned and will support the search operation in the West sector.

    Meanwhile, the Chinese ship ‘Xue Long’ has today been deployed to the East sector.

    A Japanese Coast Guard gulfstream aircraft left Subang this morning for Perth, to join the search operation.”

    What I find amazing is not ONE European or N. American ship or aircraft! Can anyone explain why this is? Is Boeing not an American firm? Is not aircraft safety an international issue? Is it not in these countries’ interest to get to the bottom of a aeroplane disaster?

  589. That is really weird, I’ve just written quite along reply on the US military & DG, & it won’t post,has wiped the comment & stayed on a blank page !

  590. What about the Cocos Island Radar system? If the plane flew towards the Southern Indian Ocean then its flight path placed it directly over the top of these islands … the Islands have a small airport there and I believe it has radar

  591. Are the Israelis Planning Another 9-11 Using the Missing Boeing 777?

    Updated March 26, 2014

    By Christopher Bollyn

    Why would Israel have a virtual twin of the missing Malaysia Airlines plane in storage in Tel Aviv? Photo by Nicholas Young of the Boeing 777 2H6(ER) – 28416/155, the identical twin of the missing plane, which has been in a hanger in Israel since November 2013. Could this plane be part of a devious false-flag terror plot in the making?

    Source: http://www.planespotters.net/Production_List/Boeing/777/28416,N105GT-GA-Telesis-php
    See more at: http://www.bollyn.com/home/#article_11686

    Update – According to reports from plane-spotters, Israel has an identical Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777-200 in storage in Tel Aviv since November 2013. The only visible difference between the missing plane and the one in Tel Aviv would be its serial number. What do the Israelis have planned with the twin Malaysia Airlines plane?

    By using the twin aircraft they have in storage, the terror masterminds may have a sinister plan for the missing plane to seemingly reappear in a false-flag atrocity. Public awareness of the twin plane in Tel Aviv, therefore, could prevent the evil plot from going ahead.

    For more on the identical Malaysia plane in Tel Aviv see the latest entry, dated March 26, 2014, on my Q&A and Comment page.

    Note: The Malaysia Air 777 with Boeing serial number 28416 and registered as 9M-MRI was sold to GA Telesis, LLC of Fort Lauderdale, Florida, on October 21, 2013, and is now registered as N105GT. The aircraft was stored at Tarbes Lourdes Pyrenees on October 4, 2013, and then on November 4, 2013, it was re-registered as N105GT and stored at Tel Aviv.

    See: http://www.planespotters.net/Production_List/Boeing/777/28416,N105GT-GA-Telesis-php

    Abdol Moabery serves as the President and Chief Executive Officer of GA Telesis, LLC. Previously, Mr. Moabery served as Executive Vice President of Aviation Systems International, Inc., and as Director of Marketing and Sales at C-S Aviation Services, Inc. Both of Moabery’s former companies were owned by George Soros. Therefore it is not unlikely that Soros owns a good part of GA Telesis, too.

    C-S Aviation Services:


    Aviation Systems International, Inc.


    This information is very important because it fits neatly into the terror scenario presented by Israeli El Al “security expert” Issac Yeffet shortly after the Malaysian plane went missing. Yeffet suggested the missing plane had been hijacked to Iran and was being prepared for a terror attack. For the Israelis to have an identical plane in a hanger in Tel Aviv reveals why Yeffet presented such a scenario. He appears to have been setting the stage for a false-flag attack like 9-11, perhaps in Israel. If such an attack were to occur in Israel all the evidence would be in the hands of Israeli intelligence giving them complete control of the interpretation or narrative of the terror event.

  592. Tim, why waste time & money when they know where the plane is ?

    The Americans know exactly where it is & I’d venture what happened to it.

    The Indian searches were cut short very quickly, when in truth they could not have been thorough in a the short time they took in that direction .

    I wonder if they & other governments have been told the brave US fought off a terrorist attack but please don’t frighten the public with this news , that would explain why everyone in the region is being so helpfully docile.

  593. Look what the Twitterati are saying on Diego Garcia.

    Hope this link works;


  594. Take a look at this & ask yourself ,why would a missing plane be mentioned in this context ?

    “Chief of CIA division for spying on Iran is suspended over internal mutiny DEBKAfile Special Report March 18, 2014, 10:39 AM (IST) Tags: CIA, Iran nuclear, Intelligence,
    CIA Headquarters at Langley, Va.
    CIA Headquarters at Langley, Va.
    The CIA’s chief of Iran operations, Jonathan Bank, 46 a veteran of the service, was sent home on paid leave over disarray in his department, US, Russian and Iranian media reported Tuesday, March 18. The department was notified of this step last week at CIA headquarters in Langley, Va. after its members rose up in “open rebellion” against Banks, according to the Los Angeles Times.
    Given the high importance and sensitivity of this department, it was most likely Intelligence Director John Brennan in person who delivered the notice.
    DEBKAfile’s intelligence sources report that internal crises in US clandestine agencies are normally kept under tight wraps and rarely see the light of day.
    But with major crises hitting the roof for Washington with the threatened meltdown of relations with Moscow over Ukraine and Crimea, unresolved Mid East issues and the missing Malaysian airliner, John Brennan would have been obliged to step in expeditiously to contain the breakdown of a complete CIA division in “open revolt” against its chief.”


  595. On the day of the disappearance Diego Garcia had scheduled no arrival or departure flights for 72 hours

  596. I believe the US (who have some capabilities of their own, as we are now all aware post-snowden) has forced Israel to abandon their plot – where they were thinking of crashing the MH370 into the Sea — which I think has just happened — and suddenly make its twin — which was kept in a hanger in Tel Aviv — crash into the Azrieli Towers in Tel Aviv.

    Thanks to the uncontrollable internet, people are now so informed that Israel cannot pull off another 9/11.

  597. Lieut. Gen. Rafael Eitan, Israeli Chief of Staff, 1978-83:

    Some day, perhaps, if it’s decided that the stories can be told, you’ll see that the state [Israel] has been involved in acts which are a thousand times more dirty than anything going on in Colombia. But these things were decided by the government, in cabinet meetings. As long as the government decides to do something, something that the national interest demanded, then it is legitimate. But if an individual wants to do the same thing, it isn’t. That’s just the way it is. It’s very simple.

    Source:”The Colombia Connection,” Jerusalem Post, September 1, 1989

  598. JON….please delete Sorrenson repeats. ;-)

    This may be nearer the truth !

    ‘We also know that the 777/200 is a “fly by wire” aircraft with controls in place that allow the CIA to remotely pilot the plan “in case of emergency.” We were able to verify the design and implementation of this system through Boeing, Raytheon and commercial pilots.

    “BAD NEWS”

    The descriptions today in the New York Times and other publications are purposefully inaccurate and contradictory. Their explanations of how commercial aircraft communicate and are tracked are fanciful at best, at worst “criminal.”


    When Malaysian Airlines Flight 370 was reported as having crashed in the South China Sea, a massive cover up began yet no one will speak of it, nothing is written of it and its broad consequences are a subject of no investigation.

    While people around the world were told the plane was “lost” or “crashed,” it was being monitored by NORAD (North American Aerospace Defense Command) and its regional defines partners through secret systems installed in the plane.”


  599. I agree with Katie – you can delete the first [of the repeats]. I can’t help it: I strive for [graphically] excellence. It’s not perfect , but clearly – you can take it as a general rule that the last post in a repetetive series is always the best

  600. straw44berry

    26 Mar, 2014 - 1:03 pm

  601. Katie
    26 Mar, 2014 – 7:12 am and INTP1 previous re. “pings” it is indeed difficult to make sense of them or the reasoning behind their interpretation. As you ask, with such objective technical information and nearly three weeks to analyse it, how can the basic number keep changing. We can agree interpretation of the pings is more problematic but not surely how many were received and when? A “partial ping” has now been announced eight minutes after the last full one. So how is that explained if it only puts out the beacon hourly? If the plane flew for an hour in a NW direction, then about another hour in a westerly direction, presumably two of the eight pings must have occurred before its alleged southerly trajectory but nothing is said about this. As always the published information is partial, confused and controversial.

  602. So it seems — acoording to the photos Straw linked to –that it crashed off the Maldives, but the Americans insisted that the story told form there on should be that it crashed off Australias coast, because Australia is one of the “five eyes” that can be trusted [to swallow this story, which the US is not proud of, but the US will do anything to cover the asses of Israelis.

  603. Bluebird
    26 Mar, 2014 – 9:28 am a cargo B777 with a bomb on board landing on all the western leaders would certainly qualify as a BIG EVENT. From Chile a hotbed of CIA interference. Was it a test run or a mild warning/reminder or am I just getting ahead of myself? (Again?)

  604. Yes you are — again — ‘getting ahead of yourself’ (to use your own words, beacuse the event in the Netherlands was a non-event, and the plane was able to return to the Netherlands, after a detour to Frankfurt, Germany.

  605. TimV – A ping is also known as an ACK signal (Acknowledge) and will consist of a number of bytes in its message, usually 256 although sometimes less, perhaps 128.

    A partial ping would therefore be an ACK that was not fully received, say 10 bytes or 20 or whatever but less than the full number of bytes expected.

    It is at the moment of interruption of the signal that the plane supposedly crashed.

    What most amazes me is that Malaysian Airlines had not paid for the extra service so why were there any pings at all? There shouldn’t have been any. not a one.

  606. Kenneth – 9M-MR1 was spotted in Instanbul 9th of January 2013, how long did you say the plane had been in storage in Tel Aviv?

    You can contact the photographer, Kivanc Ucan, by sending an email via this link


  607. Here is a picture of 9M-MR1 blowing an engine during take off from Kuala Lumpur in 2006 (I believe) Perhaps by tracking the replacement engine you can find some more about the plane. Hope this helps you


  608. At least little Holland can still get intercepting jets into the air when it wants in contrast to MH370 or 9/11. “Small is beautiful” I suppose.

    I see from WIKI that LAN cargo operates mainly in N and S America. Miami, yes MIAMI is its base, inaugurated in 2001. (2001 of all years!) the Lima/Miami route was initiated in 1999. It gets its first 777′s in 2009. Santiago is the other.It has 3 B777′s apparently and regularly uses Amsterdam and Frankfurt as European connections. The third biggest share holder appears to be JP Morgan/Chase. It is also the parent company of LANCO that is based in Bogota which has just 1 B777.

    It’s hard to see how a regular user would not be apprised by air traffic control to stay clear of Amsterdam without the need to engage military aircraft. That bit is very puzzling.

  609. Sorry that was in response to Bluebird
    26 Mar, 2014 – 9:28 am as always on the ball. How DO you do it?

  610. Ben-William Wallace

    26 Mar, 2014 - 2:15 pm

    Bluebird; Found any links to Seychelles in your journeys?

  611. Kenneth Sorensen
    26 Mar, 2014 – 1:38 pm I hope you could detect a little self parody there. It wasn’t meant to be taken quite literally except that an attack on the western leaders WOULD be a big event without doubt. Also, although the flight was obviously benign, a risk was obviously calculated to be there by Dutch air-force or they wouldn’t have launched and intercepted. Its hardly a “normal” event and I still can’t understand why usual air traffic control advice that must have been given wasn’t followed. That is nowhere explained as far as I can see.

  612. Donald
    26 Mar, 2014 – 1:46 pm I get that completely. Thanks. What I don’t get is that if INMARSAT are saying it transmitted once every hour, how can the last partial one be explained only EIGHT MINUTES after the previous full one. Do you have a logical explanation for the 8 min interval rather than the scheduled 60 min one? This seems very strange to me though no doubt there is a reason for it somewhere in the specification. And can you answer my earlier point about the two hours or so BEFORE the southerly route was allegedly adopted. Why is INMARSAT totally silent on the predictive location pings (at least two) for that part of the journey. Your obvious expertise in this area is appreciated btw.

  613. Christopher Bollyn has added a sentence to his response to Bluebird within the last hour [emphasised in bold]:

    Bollyn Responds: This information is very important because it indicates that Israel has an identical twin aircraft of the missing Malaysian Boeing 777 in a hanger in Tel Aviv. This is why I said that the computerized hijacking of the plane may have ended with the plane being dropped in some remote part of the Indian Ocean, like what happened to Egypt Air 990 on October 31, 1999 . The terror masterminds might very well have a sinister plan for the missing plane to seemingly reappear in a false-flag atrocity by using the twin aircraft they have in storage. Awareness of the twin plane in Tel Aviv could prevent the evil plot from going ahead.

  614. Katie
    26 Mar, 2014 – 12:18 pm seems you picked up my “ping”.

  615. Katie
    26 Mar, 2014 – 12:09 pm Spooky! Must have been good stuff.

  616. TimV – Seven pings in total .. First normal ping happened as expected, second ping somewhere between Malaysian and Indonesia then the plane turned and apparently every other ping happened en route at an altitude of 30,000 feet. Very timely turns. :-(

    But how did a pilotless plane maintain a perfect altitude for the last five hours of flight?

    You have to understand that in order for Inmersat to correctly assume a “Doppler” effect to the plane’s signals then it must have maintained its altitude and heading, it obviously did not zig zag all over the place but moved in a straight line … no east or west deviations, … otherwise the maths would be all over the place.

    Also I am amazed that a plane without a pilot followed the curvature of the earth so perfectly that the satellite could estimate its precise altitude .. Awesome Gyroscopic properties . :-)

    If the plane skidded over the surface of the water as it crashed then it is possible that water entered the sending unit and caused a partial signal to be sent out before water finally fried the instrument. think rain water momentarily switching on the send button in your cell phone, there is no other logical explanation otherwise. In fact it is the only possible explanation .. but it is a good one.

  617. Kenneth – I found your plane at Ben Gurion and took a screen shot of its location at the airport, give me a few minutes to post it for you, not sure which of my websites I should use yet.

    Now you can keep your eye on it :-)

  618. Kenneth – Here is your plane, you can use Google earth to zoom in on it, I hope it is the one, it certainly looks like it to me, if it isn’t I apologize, my eyesight is not too good.


  619. I cannot think of all this cause my brain i slike a Commodore64. I direct you to Bluebird, those brain is like IBM’s deepblue.

  620. TimV – Here is a better explanation of the last unfinished ping which also offers an explanation of the crash

    The pinging unit spends all its time collecting information from the engines … it is activated once an hour by a timer and automatically sends the information to a satellite.

    When the plane sent the last ping it immediately collected all the information for the next signal.

    Immediately after the seventh ping was sent the plane crashed on the ocean but it must have first skidded across the water for a few seconds breaking up as it did and allowing water to enter the plane, perhaps a drop of water hit the timer and momentarily activated the timer and therefore the sending unit began to send a signal … a millisecond or so later more water fried the electronics; thus we have only a partial last ping

    This means that the plane entered the water in a flat position, a nose dive would not have allowed enough time for the timer to activate the sending unit.

    The partial ping tells me that the plane did not run out of fuel, it came in at a flat angle, it was not a nose dive as if it had run out of fuel and fell out of the sky.

  621. A bit more … also .. there is a crystal in the electronics which controls the frequency of the signal, If the plane had fallen flat from a high altitude the shock of the collision with the water would have altered the frequency of the signal and the partial ping would not have been received by the satellite.

    The only way for the partial signal to have been sent at the proper frequency for the satellite to receive it is if the plane entered the water at a shallow angle.

    The crash had to be one similar to the one in this video off the Comoran islands, you can see here how water would have entered the fuselage slowly, the crash took a few seconds at least.


  622. Katie
    26 Mar, 2014 – 11:50 am You say: “No one mentioned an aircraft carrier [ except me asking why not ] in the region, if this is true then why is it not used in the reconnaissance ?”

    Well I did back along in relation to American 7th Fleet that contains no less than three carriers if I remember correctly. They must have at least one in the Indian Ocean. Each of course has the most sophisticated radar available and aircraft to extend it even further. This is just one navy. How about all the others?

    Then if you check out http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/05/28/world_flight_path_map_busiest_airports_are_atlanta_frankfurt_sao_paolo_beijing.html you will see the suggested southern route is virtually unused. This means that any reported missing plane flying along it for six hours or so would stick out like a sore thumb as they say. It is simply unbelievable that it could go all that way on that route un-noticed and unrecorded.

  623. I can’t believe what I am reading !

    1. By switching off your transponder, you also disable TCAS (collision avoidance).
    You can therefore “sit” behind another a/c. His system will not respond.

    2. A “ping” is generated from the SATCOM packs at the rear of the a/c.
    Monitor the “pings” until you don’t get one…and X marks the spot.

    3. The “doppler effect” was developed many years ago. Its effectiveness was proven during World War Two. Ever wondered why the RAF won the “battle of Britain”.

    4. First Class satellite links work via SATCOM (AFAIK). Disable that. End of.

    5. You can’t “hijack” an a/c by taking over the FMC’s. You just turn off the A/P and “fly the plane” (It what we were all taught to do years ago). “Fly by Wire” refers to the “inputs” on the control surfaces. If you don’t believe me, shut down an a/c in flight, let the RAM deploy….and you can still fly ! (a bit “radical” but it shows that a plane actually can fly without FMC’s !)

    6. The a/c was not “pilot-less”. It navigated. The “turn West” would not be in the Flight Plan. It would therefore “not be pre programmed”. Nor would the waypoint IGREX (North of Indonesia).

    7. Primary radar and commercial Secondary radar are different. Just because you lose a transponder, does not mean you “send fighters up”. It could be a “decompression” and it was “seen” to descend. That is procedure, it would not “alert” anyone. a) Primary would not know Secondary was not working b) Primary would have an “interceptor” solution plot, it is pointless having a Primary Radar system if you did not have “something” it could then “do” once you have a identified a threat.

    8. I can discuss Transponders and their modes (including mode 5 IFF) later …and how it works. In this case, it is not relevant.

  624. Katie
    26 Mar, 2014 – 11:11 am I discussed this incident above with James in connection with lockerbie which was done in revenge (it is alleged!)

  625. Idiot !

  626. Lockerbie was a terrorist attack.
    It was NOT however a “terrorist from Libya”.

    Tim on the other hand believes it was SHOT DOWN by the USA.

    I say to Tim…. what days does the nurse come round ?
    Clearly Tim is mad

    Or was Locerbie “done” by UFO’s (Carnk City, here we come).

  627. Tim V
    26 Mar, 2014 – 5:13 pm

    It’s no good having aircraft carriers in the region if they are not using the planes. The OZ planes were spending 4 hours flying out to the search area where aircraft could be ferried there to search.

    I’m afraid James is right about Lockerbie, Libya got the blame but it was an Iranian hit.

  628. Ben-William Wallace

    26 Mar, 2014 - 6:23 pm

    “Libya got the blame but it was an Iranian hit.”

    Katie; The Iranian defector submitting his intel could be another LeWinter/Curveball opportunist.

    As we know, Iran is responsible for everything from Climate change to the chicago fire.

    Neocons afoot…

  629. @Katie 9:34 am: It’s kind of like how none, absolutely none, of the satellites operating in the world at the time of the 3/11/11 earthquake in Japan, managed to capture an image of the EQ in progress. Considering the number of artificial satellites above our earth, this is almost more remarkable than the EQ itself. Now we are asked to believe that Inmarsat is the sole source of any and all knowledge surrounding the MH370 disappearance, and that is also incredible.

    Question: SSTL collaborated with two Chinese universities to develop parasitic satellites that can jam their hosts, among other things, and small enough to elude detection, so why did we hear nothing more? Surely some satellites somewhere in the world were compromised. Why do we trust satellite information as infallible, and why do we not ask questions when major earth events like 3/11/11 occur and not a single satellite manages to see anything? See no evil, hear no evil?

  630. Katie

    It wasn’t Iran (although it could indeed be linked back that way).

    The actual “hands” that did it… are known.
    The “backers”…. you’re most likely correct in what you have written.

    If you can, look back at the “modus” of “altitude explosives” used in that period.
    The worrying issue was “where it was loaded”. That appears to be Heathrow.

    There is more to this story (too long to go into) but it is very interesting.
    As for “conspiracy theories”, I am amazed that “other topics” get pushed forward, but with Lockerbie, nothing is said.

  631. @Donald: Over in the al-Hilli thread, I posted a link to a story from a few years ago. U.S. military jets intercepted a KAL Boeing 777 on Canada’s west coast. From what was said by the media, that situation came very close to being terminal. At the time, the media reported that the pilot did not respond to contact.


  632. Ben-William Wallace

    26 Mar, 2014 - 6:38 pm


    “Matthew Gannon, the CIA’s deputy station chief in Beirut, Lebanon, was sitting in Clipper Class, Pan Am’s version of business class,[26] seat 14J. Major Chuck “Tiny” McKee, an army officer on secondment to the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) in Beirut, sat behind Gannon in the center aisle, in seat 15F. Two Diplomatic Security Service special agents, acting as bodyguards to Gannon and McKee, were sitting in economy: Ronald Lariviere, a security officer from the U.S. Embassy in Beirut, was in 20H; Daniel O’Connor, a security officer from the U.S. Embassy in Nicosia, Cyprus, sat five rows behind Lariviere in 25H, both men seated over the right wing. The four men had flown together out of Cyprus that morning.”

    Even with evidence, on the ground, ( $500k in heroin) with Gannon and crew heading to the US, with evidence of CIA trafficking in drugs, leads us to the Iranian Canard. Do you think any interests would kill hundreds, just to murder and shut up a few?

    I repeat; the Freescale 20.

  633. Funny

    Ben and Tim believe Lockerbie was a USA missile !

    Both guys have little or no knowledge of the investigation (I should say “investigation”), the trial or the subsequently presented evidence.

    Yeah… America did it guys. What’s next, UFO’s promoting wind farms !!!!
    One word “Cranks”.

  634. Ben….

    There were also lots of American Military guys on that plane also.
    Normal “Joe’s” heading home for Christmas.

    What a great time to hit a plane…. A great terrorist act. And it was.
    But it wasn’t Libya.

  635. Ben-William Wallace

    26 Mar, 2014 - 6:46 pm

    “Ben and Tim believe Lockerbie was a USA missile !”

    Where is that keen analytical mind? Are you the intern? Tag-team afoot?

  636. Again… nothing in his post. No facts. No opinion. Nada.

    But if Benny and Timbo ARE “the tag team” from hell, then that is an insult !

    A pair of cranks.
    No knowledge (and one that claims to be a journalist, heavens above !)

  637. Get this!!!

    That Chilean B777 that roused the Dutch Airforce out of its slumbers (has it ever scrambled before?) had its transponder TURNED OFF!!!!

    See: http://intellihub.com/boeing-777-transponding-diverted-away-nuclear-summit-two-f-16-fighter-jets/

    Someone was testing systems methinks a bit like the Russians used to over the North Sea.

    Incidentally Airbus Defence and space (that took over SST and issued the latest debris photos!) has just signed a contract with the Chilean Air force.

  638. So Ben….

    Pray tell how the aircraft made it’s West turn across Malaysia ?

    And please don’t say “it was taken over by hacking” !
    I have had the decency to provide a technical perspective on aviation, it would be a pleasure to read your interpretation (and supported by you technical knowledge)of your opinion.

    I assume you have some “knowledge” ? Maybe that is an “ask” too far !

  639. Ben-William Wallace

    26 Mar, 2014 - 7:09 pm

    Where there is smoke….SOP for CIA.


    Electronic Counter Measures are another arrow in their quiver.

  640. Ben-William Wallace

    26 Mar, 2014 - 7:13 pm

    Tim V;

    Well bust my britches. They CAN respond when they have the will to power.

    “The incident was particularly concerning to officials due to the nature of a close-by nuclear summit in Hague.”

    The serpent cannot survive if the head is removed.

  641. Just look at these….

    zen master • 10 hours ago

    Was that the missing Malaysia 777 being used by Israel for a false flag? If so, congrats to Dutch, way to go saving the world from ww3. No wonder the Israelis were abandoning their embassies, so their staff couldn’t be lynched should the false flag have gone ahead but blame been correctly attributed to Israel.

    me • 10 hours ago

    Maybe it was the “missing” MH370 redesigned for a special mission?!

    Pravda01 • 12 hours ago

    Seems not only the Boeing 777 has a problem, Lufthansa was warned today of software errors on the new 747 which could lead to an unwanted reverse thrust mid flight.

    A new 747 ! That dude is really “out of the park” !

  642. “The serpent cannot survive if the head is removed”.

    The term is “….and it grows a new one”

    You really are thick. This is like taking candy from a baby.
    Its “Special Mission” !

  643. Q
    26 Mar, 2014 – 6:27 pm the story is that Israeli Embassy staff in Japan were called back just prior to the sunami as Jewish staff were advised to stay away 9/11. Its what added flavour to all embassy’s closed March 10th or whenever (James no doubt will provide the date) They do seem to have an unerring ability to judge cataclysmic events. I have a feeling the MH370 thing didn’t go quite according to plan and had to be aborted. The significant fact possibly overlooked, were the pings that proved it was still around hours after it was meant to have sunk without trace. There are distinct similarities with the strategy adopted on 9/11 i’m sure you have noticed. Trasponder down, coms down, manoeuvre just at point of change-over dead radar space etc etc. Modus operandi I would say. “It worked the first time. Lets do it again.”

  644. Ben-William Wallace

    26 Mar, 2014 - 7:21 pm

    As the methodology slowly unveils itself, it becomes more amusing than problematic.

    That is all. Carry on. :)

  645. I’m reading your post Timbo… they make me laugh.

    “I have a feeling the MH370 thing didn’t go quite according to plan”

    A feeling !!!!!

    He’s dynamite is Timbo ! What else do you feel Tim ?
    Don’t worry about “knowledge”, tell us how you “feel”

  646. Benny congratulates Timbo on this “methodology” !

    It’s a “feeling” he’s had Benny !

  647. I suspect it’s not a paid internship.

  648. BrianFujisan

    26 Mar, 2014 - 7:34 pm

    Some more Re the Diego Garcia…with a map in there

    Why was the Malaysian MH370 Flight Not Detected by the Diego Garcia US Naval and Intelligence Base in the Indian Ocean?

    Teeny bit more @


  649. Free lancer mate. Who’d pay me for such a simple job ?

    You didn’t provide any “tech info” though, I note.
    I’ll note it again when you post !

  650. Brian….

    How far is DG from Indonesia ?

  651. Brian;


    “Pulse compression, and moving target indicator (MTI) provide up to 25dB sub-clutter visibility. MTI antenna beam is aimed above horizon to avoid excessive false alarm rate, which renders systems vulnerable.*** Aircraft and some missiles exploit this weakness using a technique called flying below the radar to avoid detection (Nap-of-the-earth). ***This flying technique is ineffective against pulse-Doppler radar.

    Pulse-Doppler provides an advantage when attempting to detect missiles and low observability aircraft flying near terrain, sea surface, and weather.”

    DG is some 1500 miles…within the flying range, but as I see it outside the range of radar which seems about 800 miles in the right condition. But, again, no one has sat eyes 24/7 on this sensitive region with emerging markets and nukes?

  652. Thanks Ben for that “wonderful” and “informative” answer.

    Maybe you should attend the “College of The Bleeding Obvious” !
    It is infact “way outside” radar contact.

    But I guess I just said that in my previous post.
    OR Benny has just discover the Earth is infact “not flat” !

  653. Posted just now on “the other thread”


    This is how you get things done.

    Just had an email back from a “well known French regional newspaper”.

    I informed them that “it would appear that someone was using an obituary photograph of a deceased person publish (under copyright) in their newspaper”.

    You’d never guess what they said !?!?

    They said…. “they wish contact the proprietor of the site to exact the IP address”

    They didn’t inform me of the action they wish to take…but the reply was rather swift !

    Ya shouldn’t use “dead people” as avatars ! Maybe Ken can inform us of what action they take…. or Jon may do that ? Or Craig ?

  654. Oh Kenneth !

  655. Should anyone ‘trust’ your info? I like trust, but prefer ‘verify’ then trust.

  656. “Should anyone ‘trust’ your info? I like trust, but prefer ‘verify’ then trust”.

    What, how far is Indonesia ?

    Trust what you like Benny. You seem to read a lot of wierd stuff and trust it
    Bananas are straight by the way….and Pink not yellow.

    Mate…. don’t “trust me”. Try and get some technical knowledge from whatever profession you try to pursue…. or do like every other crank, “spout off” and hope it makes sense (or cut n paste from Crank websites, seems to work for Timbo).

  657. http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=117353

    “U.S. sailors handle lines in preparation to get the littoral combat ship USS Freedom under way from her homeport in Mayport, Fla., Feb. 16, 2010. Freedom, the Navy’s first littoral combat ship, is scheduled for a 10-month rotational deployment to Singapore beginning in the spring of 2013. U.S. Navy photo by Petty Officer 1st Class Leah Stiles

    A decade ago, the Strait of Malacca was a dangerous place, where pirates launched almost 50 attacks a year in the narrow, 550-mile-long sea lane linking the Indian and Pacific oceans. That had serious international implications, because about 50,000 vessels transit the passageway each year, carrying an estimated 40 percent of the world’s trade.

    Today, incidents have dropped to fewer than five a year, without a single successful hijacking in almost four years, reported Air Force Maj. Gen. Michael A. Keltz, Pacom’s director of strategic planning and policy.

    Keltz attributed that success to a partnership among nations bordering the strait, with help from U.S.-funded technology that has boosted maritime security dramatically.

    Meanwhile, countries that once resisted engaging in multilateral, multinational operations now are doing so, Keltz said. Singapore, Indonesia, Malaysia and, increasingly, Thailand, have joined forces to increase patrols and improve their collective maritime domain awareness and law-enforcement capabilities.

    A command and control information center that opened at Singapore’s Changi Naval Base in 2009 supports this effort, drawing together information shared by 11 nations. This includes data from shore-based radars positioned throughout the region and an electronic tracking system that automatically identifies vessels transiting the strait.”

    Hmm. Pirates. It’s SOP for US to have security (former Seals) on freighters traveling in sea lanes adjacent to Somala. Wasn’t there two former Seals found dead of heroin overdose, after shore leave in Seychelles? Alabama Maersk was the ship.

  658. “It’s SOP for US to have security (former Seals) on freighters traveling in sea lanes adjacent to Somala”

    More bollocks from Benny

    Companies “like” to have former Royal Marines, US Navy Seals and alike onboard and armed.

    My mate is ex RM 42 Commando major (pronounced “Four Two”) and is part owner of a company that supplies the same to shipping companies world wide (moreover “that area”) based in the UAE and Londonshire (think I know where he likes to be tho !)

  659. “It’s SOP for US”

    That “statement” shows what a dick Benny is.

    US ? What US Government ? US companies ? US “man on the street” ?

    Benny mostly likely has never even been to America. Likely he hasn’t stepped out of his Scottish back door !

  660. Irish/Scot/German/Blackfoot/Cherokee, so around 10% accurate. Want to double that unforced error record?

  661. Sorry chaps, I just had to watch the Farage / Clegg debate, Farage won.

    I see as soon as my back’s turned war breaks out, now come on lads, play nicely. ;-)

    Yes Q, odd isn’t it , the way all this high powered techie stuff fails globally at crucial times.

    As the US is heavily involved with Inmarsat I do wonder how much intelligence work they do together ?

    ‘ I’m delighted that General Kehler has agreed to join Inmarsat’s board,” said Andrew Sukawaty, Inmarsat’s Executive Chairman.

    Strategic experience
    “We are especially pleased that with the recent retirement of Retired Admiral James Ellis Jnr, we were able to appoint someone to the Board who will provide a continuity of similar experience.

    “General Kehler has a huge breadth of knowledge that will benefit us and our decision-making and I look forward to welcoming him to the Board.”

    General Kehler’s career included serving as Commander, US Strategic Command from January 2011 to November 2013.

    Space operations
    During this time he was directly responsible to the US President and Secretary of Defence for the plans and operations of all US forces conducting strategic deterrence, and Department of Defence space and cyberspace operations.’

  662. “Want to double that unforced error record?”

    Er… yeah !
    You still talk bollocks !

  663. Katie

    A sensible question deserves a sensible response.

    My opinion…. if they can’t track a Primary target or find an aircraft that had flown (appears to have flown) “way off” track, how much are ALL SIDES “bigging up” what they can do !

  664. @Katie

    And I missed the “debate”. Wanted to watch it, but was on skype.

    But here’s the thing that bothers me re the MAS crash.

    The “cost of doing business”.

    A fatal air crash with regard compensation will fall within the realms of the Montreal Convention. The pay out by the air carrier for death is “limited” This Limit is a “tally” by accepting “presumed guilt”.

    Crash an airliner… you pay out.
    Crash an airliner…and the costs of SAR and Recovery are massive, you fold the airline.

    That’s what I think.
    These costs (to date, without recovery) will be in the multi millions. And you can not ask them to “stop” and merely payout in line with the Montreal Convention.

  665. Exactly James.

    This fiasco, lies or not, will encourage hostile nations to have a go & challenge our systems….or could this whole thing be for that reason ?

    How long is a piece of string ?

  666. Simply put…

    IF this is “pilot suicide/murder”, this guy is not only “crashing” the airliner.
    He is “crashing” the state owned (and already suffering) “flag carrier” of Malaysia.

    That’s BIG.

  667. Linkages

    Both Seals had been linked to sniper teams on the roof of the Lennox hotel (intersection of Boylston and Exeter) during the Boston Marathon explosions.

    What a coinky-dinky


    “Last month, the team was involved in the arrest of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, a suspect in the Boston Marathon bombings. And in February, it rescued a 5-year-old boy held hostage for six days in an underground bunker in Alabama.”

  668. Are you talking about payout for the airline James ?

    Remember the passengers are already getting their compensation from the German company Allianz….not sure what that actually covers.
    I wonder how compensation works when an airline is already in financial trouble like MAS ?

  669. “This fiasco, lies or not, will encourage hostile nations to have a go & challenge our systems….”

    As you say… they will all be “looking” at each other now.
    China, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand and India !

    ONE act. He brings down an airliner. A government. A region.

    Clever really. I guess he was clever. Mad, but clever.

  670. Katie….

    re your post on compensation.

    It is all governed by the Montreal Convention.
    It’s a “fixed” payment.

    Most people don’t know this, but its printed on your ticket !
    MAS (and the insurers) will ONLY payout on that.

  671. Are you somehow on the wrong thread Benny ?

    Or is it “I type, you post irrelevance” ?

    Timbo and Benny. Team “nonse” (You know what a “nonse” is Benny ?).

  672. James, I’ve wondered about that .

    After a Virgin flight from Africa, I made a claim for a bag which was damaged onboard.
    They had the gall to tell me to claim on my insurance,..I indignantly told them I did not pay travel insurance to save them money…they paid out.

    So, if these MAS passengers get paid as per ticket convention, then that is the sum total they will receive ?
    I know insurance companies work together so I’m assuming you cannot claim twice IE; from your own travel insurance too ?

  673. Katie

    The carrier will always say “claim on your insurance”. It gets them off the hook.

    But Baggage (lost, delayed or damaged) and Death, all come under the Montreal Convention (as does cargo).

    The basis of this is “presumed guilt in lieu of limited liability”. It “helps” an airline (the correct term is Carrier).

    For instance (and it’s “slightly” relevant. If your baggage was lost (completely) you get a fixed payout. However if they acted in a “reckless way, with the intent to cause damage” you can invoke Article 22. para 5, you can sue for “unlimited” (to the cost of what was actually lost) the whole amount. You must however prove (beyond doubt) “with intent to”. That’s the hard bit (see what the Conspiracy guys miss everyday !)

    Whereas “death” does not (AFAIK) afford that term. It is a “straight” payout.
    Cant recall the amount of hand (it’s in SDR’s) but around 100K GBP.

    You see now why Private Aviation works for Billionaires !
    It’s not a “luxury”

    AND thanks for a sensible conversation amongst the “crap” posted so far.

  674. Oh…. Katie

    The reason why the insurers payout.
    They cover the “loss” of the aircraft (airframe).
    Public Liability (and the Montreal Convention) limit the rest.
    So lets say, 200 pax at 100K GBP.

    Whereas…. the cost of SAR ? The cost of Recovery ?
    10 Million GBP ? 20 Million ? 100 Million ????
    Whatever it is, MAS are not insured for that. It’s off the “bottom line”.

  675. Many thanks for that James, I shall C&P just in case I should need such info in future.

    To give Virgin their due, once I refused to claim on my insurance they accepted my word & paid up in full without ‘proof’.

    What happened was my beautiful leather computer bag got tangled in the seat/bed mechanism because there was absolutely no room for the bag on the floor when extending it ,of course I didn’t realise this until it was too late.
    As it was only a 13inch laptop clearly it was not a big bag.

    All very paltry though by comparison to loss of life.

    Anyway thanks again, midnight here so I’m off to bed. Night night. :-)

  676. Virgin aren’t such a bad airline.
    My friend is a four bar for them (out of Heathrow).
    And they “paid up (in the end).

    Happy sleeps.

  677. Katie….

    “…no room for the bag on the floor when extending it”.

    Fly on a Gulfstream, leather flat beds made up after takeoff by a well trained F/A.
    And she’ll only wake you five minutes before I land.

    The “flying caravan” as we call it !

  678. @Katie
    “The Malaysian Parliament was told today that the Royal Malaysian Air Force (RMAF) did detect an unidentified aircraft that had turned back but assumed it had done so after being instructed by air traffic control.”

    “We detected the ‘turn back’ but did not regard it as hostile and as it was a friendly aircraft, we thought maybe that it had received instructions from the control tower but what we later realised was that the aircraft had disappeared (off the radar) at the Andaman Sea or northern Malacca Strait.”

    “For your knowledge, the visibility of our radar is only around 250 nautical miles…”

    Clearest explanation of Inmarsat and ACARS. Technical but readable.

  679. James wrote, “Timbo and Benny. Team “nonse” (You know what a “nonse” is Benny ?).

    I know how it’s usually spelt, too, and what it means. It’s an acronym. N.O.N.C.E. stands for “Not On Normal Community Exercise”, and is used to refer to prisoners segregated from the upstanding members of their residence.

  680. Katie….

    Your story of the Maldives witnesses. Here ya go !


    It looks like a fire suppression bottle, I give it that. But off what ?
    There should be a part number on it. I haven’t heard anything about that.

    (My guess….? I still think it is in the Southern Indian Ocean, but what this is…( and it looks like a “fire bottle” from an aircraft) I don’t know.

    Will keep (Katie) posted.

  681. Glen…. Ya “google’d” it” !

    Anyway… he’s a dick !

  682. It’s astonishing that nobody has employed the Occam’s Razor principle in this entire thread. The most simple explanation is usually the correct one. Also, cui bono?

    Look at the facts. An airline from a country nobody has ever heard of, has a plane that supposedly disappears. No trace of this alleged disappeared plane can be found. The press is ecstatic, and images of hysterical relatives are broadcast for weeks.

    CNN – a former news outlet now in freefall due to lack of ratings – suddenly has the best upturn in years. Endless speculation from pundits and commentators, none of which needs the slightest substantiation, fills broadcasts for weeks. Acres of newsprint is devoted to completely idle speculation.

    The obvious conclusion is that there never was any aircraft to disappear in the first place. The supposed bereaved relatives are all actors – how could they remain so hysterical for so long, if they were not trained professionals? The entire thing was cooked up by the media in order to fill the news-cycle for at least a month, during the boring days before Spring really arrives.

    In all the conspiracy theories advanced so far, has anyone even suggested this? Of course they have not – and that, in itself, is all the proof you need. Everything (including God, aliens, terrorists, black holes, suicidal pilots, stealth technologies, patent theft etc. etc.) has been suggested, but not this – the most obvious answer of all.

  683. NR

    Great work.

    Primary (non commercial radar) would not know Secondary (commercial) radar had not got a contact…..

    …although it would look “odd” passing over West (of Malaysia) yet descending (decompression procedure).

    Tucked up towards IGREX waypoint (N. Indo) it may not look “odd”.

    By the time it has 180′d South (75nm to max 200nm) off Nicobar, he’s gone.

    OR…as Katie is pushing (250 odd ppl say they saw it over Male area)

  684. Glen…

    seriously ?

    “The obvious conclusion is that there never was any aircraft to disappear in the first place”.

    Nurse. Another one has gone mad

  685. James. Some of us old timers here still yet retain a sense of humour. Granted, that might be hard for you to believe.

  686. “OR…as Katie is pushing (250 odd ppl say they saw it over Male area)”

    By that I mean, it could be there, but I think not.
    Just to give respect where respect is due, to a poster that is using logic to put forward a relevant point (and not the mad ramblings that “other” posters seem to put forward).

    It’s the “Southern Ocean” V “Maldives sweep stakes” !

  687. Glen….

    Then I take what I said back.

    Some or the “old timers” must then start to “make a stand” against the “internet cranks” that “because it’s free” and “we can say what the shit we like without knowledge…we’ll god damn say it” !

    Will you do that ?

  688. Regarding the earlier comments that Pan Am 103 was destroyed by missiles, there are some who believe that it was, but that the missiles were being carried as illegal cargo and detonated either accidentally or on purpose.
    Google “John L Parkes Lockerbie” and “robbie the pict firm Lockerbie needles”

  689. Morning all.

    NR , excellent link there, I like the probable & the possible mentions, too many have taken the Inmarsat info as factually correct without argument,but clearly there’s doubt & the doppler effect should be still thought of as approximate ?

    Does anyone know the time lapse between the transponder switch off & the first ping ?
    Could the plane have been travelling away toward the Maldives/DG rather than along the arc & still be giving the same signal ?
    Logically I’d say it could.
    Likewise as the article says, the signal can be received even if the plane is on the ground …briefly.

    As I’m not good at sums…can someone who is, calculate the timings more accurately,if the plane lost contact around 1am Malaysia time which has 4 hours flying time to DG = arrival 5am roughly.
    Unloading, refuelling , say 2 hours, then take off direction Maldives with flying time one hour 30 mins to Maldives take away the 3 hours time difference = sightings around 6 ish.

    OR….how about this, the plane stored at Tel Aviv was the plane seen flying over the Maldives EN ROUTE to Diego Garcia,to collect cargo from MH370 ?

    It looks a pretty direct flight path Israel , Maldives, DG.

  690. Meanwhile back in Australia a very bad weather has once again halted the search and all ships are returning back to Perth.

    “All planes are returning to Perth and ships are leaving search area,” AMSA tweeted.


  691. No worries Donald, the Americans are about to arrive in their submersibles…………from guess where ?
    Diego Garcia.

    What better way to do some dumping in the area ?

  692. NR ( quote )
    “We detected the ‘turn back’ but did not regard it as hostile and as it was a friendly aircraft, we thought maybe that it had received instructions from the control tower but what we later realised was that the aircraft had disappeared (off the radar) at the Andaman Sea or northern Malacca Strait.”


    How can military say “a friendly aircraft” if it had no transponder?
    Did they wave white flags from the airplane or did they throw white flyers fron the airplane with the printed text “God loves you” ?

    Evrrywhere in the world the military tries to make contact with an unidentified airplane. If the airplane does not respond, then fighter jets are being sent to escort that plane.

    What they are saying is BS.

  693. Katie – Submarines? This is getting to be ridiculous, meanwhile the one Australian ship left in the area continues to makes search patterns in an area where they have found nothing and hasn’t even made a move towards where the French said they could see 122 objects

  694. Here we are;

    ‘The US navy tracking equipment – a special listening device known as a “towed pinger locator” and an underwater drone dubbed Bluefin-21 – has arrived in Perth, where the international effort is headquartered and is being sent to the search site.’

    Reports said the equipment would be loaded on to the Royal Australian Navy’s HMAS Ocean Shield, which will drag the locator through the water in the hope of picking up a signal. The drone can dive to depths of about 4,500 metres, using sonar to form images of the ocean floor. Similar technology was used to locate the main wreckage from Air France flight 447 in 2011 – yet it still took searchers two years to recover the black box from the depths of the Atlantic Ocean.’


    Very good analogy there BB, the white flag ! Hahaha.

  695. This is interesting, from the Guardian;

    World news
    Malaysia Airlines flight MH370
    >>>>MH370: Inmarsat hints Malaysia delayed data on plane’s location<<<<<
    This blog has ended.
    Our latest story is here


    So was it too near the truth , the hint is there but only in the title, why didn't they delete it altogether?

  696. There was a story in which a Vietnamese admiral admits that the plane fell on Vietnamese territory, it was the Malaysians who later denied he has said so. But the admiral not only said what plane had crashed, he even stated where it had crashed.

    “….(Reuters) – A Malaysia Airlines flight carrying 227 passengers and 12 crew crashed into the sea 153 miles off the coast of Vietnam’s Tho Chu island on Saturday, according to a Vietnamese navy officer quoted by state media.

    “At the moment there are no Vietnamese navy boats in that area so we have to ask boats from Phu Quoc island to be prepared for rescue,” Admiral Ngo Van Phat told the website of Tuoi Tre news.

    Tho Chu and Phu Quoc lie to the southwest of southern Vietnam.

    The admiral could not be reached by telephone. It was not immediately clear how he knew where the plane had crashed or whether wreckage had been spotted…….”


    This is why I’ve always believed that although I am willing to think of all eventualities, I somehow know the plane was shot down by the Vietnamese.

  697. Perhaps somebody should look 246 Km (or 153 miles) off the coast of Vietnam’s Tho Chu island, who knows what might be laying off the coast. Perhaps the rest is just a smoke screen to cover up the fact that Vietnam shot down a passenger airliner for not having its transponder on.

    China would most likely go to war against Vietnam if it turned out to be true. No love lost between these two

  698. Also read the comments.


    Malaysia says there’s sealed evidence on MH370 that cannot be made public.

    Read the comments. There’s lots of discussion and speculation regarding the cargo being WMD.

    In that regards i remeber the final scene of Batman’s “The Dark night rises”. He saved Gotham by flying out into the sea towards nowhere.

    I must admit that the following is just science fiction speculation but i had seen that before in different movies in cinema:

    Existing movie script:
    There is a nuclear bomb on board and it will detonate once the plane is flying below a certain flight altitude. They have no other choice than to fly into a region far away from any civilisation and deliberately die there. The same movie script exists with biological weapons (virus, bacteria) on board.

  699. My script – see above – (taken from already existing novels and movies) would explain why the plane went almost all its way over sea and why the military didnt do anything about the plane because they knew who it was and why it was flying there.

    I understand that this is pure science fiction only, but this is something that might fit into logic IF the plane was really crashing in nowhere, far away from any civilisation.

  700. Bluebird – So do you see the climb to 44,000 feet as being part of a struggle?

  701. Donald: i dont know. Maybe. That is just speculation.

    Other movies apart from “the dark knight rises”

    Nuclear device on board:

    Deadly illness on board. Plane comes from thailand:

  702. The only thing your theory on Vietnam does not answer Donald, is the plane banking to the West over the East Malaysian coast.

  703. Katie – Ships even went to the area in question and found wreckage, their response was that it did not match the “Body of the plane”, they didn’t even mention to say that it might have been part of the cargo, passenger luggage and so on .. no .. they only concentrated on the body of the plane.

  704. Katie – Sorry, forgot to add: The island is to the west of the flight path, the plane therefore did turn west

  705. OMG, Lao, have you seen this ?

    ‘Were the passengers really on 9M-MRQ that was taken into Vietnam and then flown west?
    Were the sightings of a plane flying west over the islands and the Maldives under radar actually true while 9M-MRO was flown over the Indian Ocean leaving a trail of Satellite pings in the opposite direction?
    Which plane was really fight MH370?
    Did something happen after it crossed Vietnam? What the heck happened and what is going on?


  706. Sorry, that comment is addressed to Donald. Slap ma wrists !

  707. Sounding like an episode of Sherlock–the one with Mycroft’s plane full of previously-deceased people.

  708. Flight MH370 Found? Not Quite – Now the Real Whitewash Begins
    By 21st Century Wire

    Global Research, March 27, 2014


  709. Bluebird; Has anyone info on MH370′s previous destinations? IOW was Seychelles a previous stop?

    The ‘cargo’ mentioned in your Big Story piece is my interest.

  710. Surely we are not supposed to believe that Flight tracker is based on radar. I was under the impression that Flight tracker, Like Ship Tracker, uses GPS info. Oh, that’s right, we are not supposed to know that very expensive commercial airliners have GPS and can be tracked by satellites. Much cheaper, rather ordinary cars have GPS tracking, but not very expensive airplanes. silly me. I should not be questioning the small details that fall apart under scrutiny. Why are the media not noticing these flaws in the tale that are big enough to fly a plane through?

  711. btw; Malaysian air has Seychelles as one of their destinations.

  712. Katie – your 12:44 … Not to worry :-)

    All I could find about 9M-MRQ is that on the 3rd of January, 2014 it flew from Kuala Lumpur to Dubai

    Funny :-(

    On the 8th of March, 2014 it is 9M-MRQ which is listed as MH-370 and having departed Kuala Lumpur to Beijing. I looked up plane finder to find this info


    Further searches revealed this plane is the return leg of the flight path .. one plane comes and one goes.

    9M-MRO had flown the reverse leg the day before


    Nothing unusual about it, I’m afraid, the article is simply using a flightradar map for a different day, it does say its map were 48 hours over or something.

  713. Ben – The links I provided in my previous comment show all 9M-MRO’s previous flights

  714. straw44berry

    27 Mar, 2014 - 2:26 pm


    You made the same mistake that Dahboo7 is it, (now Dahboo77 I see) on youtube where he said Flightradar24 have altered the data. Flight MH370 that is missing departed on 7th March using UTC, local time minus 8 hours.

    I posted on David Icke that mistake stating that plane is 9M-MRQ, the missing one is 9M-MRO.


  715. Thx Donald; the search engine confounds. How can I see all previous flights out Seychelles?

    Appreciate the help. I am not a techie.

  716. Strawberry – Yes, I was that is what I meant to say, MRO and MRQ are part of the same service, the links show them flying opposite legs of the same path .. MRO is definitely the one that fell, MRQ flew the service today.

  717. Ben – A bit late for me but why not simply look up Malaysian Airlines flight to the Seychelles as if you wanted to buy a ticket, of maybe from the Seychelles back to Malaysia, then you will have its flight number and you can track things from there.

    You might also need to do the same with other airlines, shouldn’t be too hard

  718. The flight numbers don’t change going to the same destination; different dates?

  719. Up to 300 more floating objects have been found floating in the Southern Indian Ocean. Nobody dares to say it is from the missing plane. A massive storm is keeping the navies away.


    For those reading this:

    When was it that somebody stole an airline passenger jet plane from somewhere in Africa and nobody ever saw it again? was it 2006? I do remember it was a big one, perhaps a 737.

  720. Ben – Yes, different dates, one plane flies one day and the other the next.

  721. Ben – Forget it, I bugged that one up, I’m tired, off to bed before I make an even bigger fool of myself :-)

  722. Donald; Flight numbers change apparently.

    MH 0179, 9159, 9722, 0796 all from Seychelles to KL. different numbers for business and first class as well.

  723. In haste……… a plane has crashed off Grand Canaria, according to SKY & BBC news just coming in now….no airline mentioned.

  724. Ooops they are now saying it’s a SHIPWRECK !!!

  725. straw44berry

    27 Mar, 2014 - 3:19 pm

  726. Katie – It was 737, thankfully I speak the lingo, here is a link with long distance picture,


  727. Strawberry, thank you.

  728. straw44berry

    27 Mar, 2014 - 3:24 pm

    Another plane crash? Er, no its a boat!!!???


  729. Is it a boat, is it a plane? ,,,, no, it’s superman on a surfboard :-)

  730. I don’t know if anyone has been trying to see a connection to the 2 former Seals who died in late Feb of a heroin overdose while on duty off the coast of Africa (actually while in port)

    They were rumored to have just delivered a mysterious package, and I thought there must be some disparate data on MA flight schedules. So far, no good. Filtering through is daunting.

  731. Thanks Donald, I took it to Bing for translation.
    That’s what I call irresponsible reporting & doesn’t it just show how jumpy people are about planes at the moment !

    Ben I’ve seen references to those seals, someone was trying to say they had been involved with cargo for MH370.
    There’s so much of this mystery streaming onto Twitter it’s difficult to filter it , if I see it again I’ll bring it here.

  732. A vacuum loves to be filled and many are using a Schrodinger’s Cat parallel to the missing passengers.

    Implying what, without overtly expressing…Quantum Mechanics?

  733. Ben – The seals in question were guarding a ship which has as its main duties the job of delivering food aid to West Africa, currently suffering from an Ebola outbreak.

    The false passport racket originates from West Africa, namely a country next door to where the outbreak is occurring, although since those days it appears the virulent strain of the virus has spread across three nations.

    So is it possible they suspected one of the passengers had an advance stage of the virus and was now on the plane spreading it to all the passengers in the seal environment of the plane? Did the plane itself get contaminated?

    Apparently one cannot touch the bodies or anything they came in contact with which would explain why every excuse imaginable for the plane not to be found has just happened to have happened.

    The rest of the stuff, planes to Diego, over the Maldives, false radar data and so on could well be a smoke screen

  734. Katie; Coincidentally, there are the two FBI hostage rescue guys present for the Boston Bombing, who died mysteriously in an exercise…”falling from a chopper”.

    That happens every day.

  735. To make for more triangulations, the Seals were also on a sniper team assigned to the Boston Marathon.

    Weirder and weirder.

  736. Katie; I hadn’t considered bioweapons, or chemical for that matter.

    Wheels within wheels and information headquarters is at the bottom of Deep Blue.

  737. I saw a news report yesterday showing how the ocean currents are monitored by little bots with GPS. More have been sent into the ocean in the search for the debris from MH370. I had no idea the bots were out there as part of standard ocean monitoring.

  738. Q – What if the nation that develops the vaccine first decided to keep it and then use the virus as a bio-weapon? So yes, I dare say a vaccine is now as much a priority as nuclear research was during World War 2.

    After all, they say chemical and bio-weapons are a poor nation’s WMD so if the terrorists were to gain a vaccine first then they would be on a par with nukes and could make any demands they wished.

  739. Pandora’s Legion by Harold Coyle and Barrett Tillman

    “When a convert to Islam turns up at London’s Heathrow Airport with a lethal and highly contagious disease, epidemiologists backtracking his itinerary uncover a jihadist plot to send biological time bombs among the infidels to spread disease, death and disarray”

    Crikey!, I’m really scrapping the bottom of the barrel now :-)

  740. The Daily Mail is doing a wonderful job of maintaining public calm and sanity by announcing that Ebola could now be “airborne”


  741. Let’s face it, if we were terrorists surely we’d have the intelligence to go the bio weapon route rather than try to get bombs or nuclear stuff past security at an airport.

    Smallpox would be the one I’d go for, a small vial in my lipstick tube,to be used in a crowded place or on a jumbo………..job done.

    The British government have been monitoring hundreds of our scientists for this reason. Needless to say many of them are British but not from British stock.
    Quite worrying really.

  742. A small proven fact:

    “…..The US technological company, Freescale Semiconductor, who shared its rights with Rothschild, had twenty senior members on board who had just launched a new electronic warfare gadget for military radar system’s the day before the plane went missing. …….”

    All the big boys involved in the design of this new electronic warfare gadget as well as four other passengers who were the patent holders for the gadget were on board the doomed flight.

    So if we’re looking for a motive how about the fact that these men had in their brains an ultra secret technology the west did not want to share with the Chinese?

    Here is the article, I think it author concentrates too much on the financial side of the gadget and fails to realize its importance as a national security.

  743. Donald; The Blackstone folks own TRIDENT, the security firm on site at Boston Marathon as well as the employer for the 2 dead Seals. Blackstone is the major shareholder for Freescale.


  744. BTW; Freescale hit a 52-week high (DowJones) on March 7.

  745. Ben – The plot thickens, Far too many roads leading to Rome

  746. Sorry for the duplications, but many don’t bother reading the whole thread.

    Cui bono? I think the Freescale 20 make the strongest case for motive.

    Even though the Iranian defector seems to have some creds, Iran is the fall-guy, again.

    The Beirut CIA chief and staff seems the most logical target on Lockerbie, as well.

  747. RF Power Solutions for Aerospace and Defense – Freescale …

    RF Power‎, Battlefield communications; Avionics; HF through L- and S-Band radar; Missile guidance; Electronic warfare; Identification, friend or foe (IFF) …

    The people on the plane were experts in almost every incident/event that happened to the missing plane … This is incredible.

    Pulitzer staff, when do we do the book deal? :-)

  748. United Against a nuclear Iran–Blackstone.


  749. Carlyle Group also heavily into Freescale,


  750. From my link;

    “Soros is involved in the Macedonian mobile phone company MT via “Stonebridge Communications” company, in which he has stocks. Incidentally, MT is indirectly controlled by the Rothschilds through**** “Blackstone Group*****”, a major financial-investment group which was founded in 1985 by their agents Peter George Peterson and Stefan Schwartzman (a Khazar). Both of them had previously made careers in Rothschild branch offices “Lehman Brothers” and “Kuhn Loeb Inc.”. Blackstone group is the leading stockholder of “Deutsche Telekom” (T-Mobile), which also incorporates the Hungarian mobile phone company Matav – the owner of the Macedonian mobile phone company MT. “T-Mobile” is the second largest mobile phone company in Macedonia.”

  751. posted an excerpt from link and MODERATED.

  752. Ben & Donald, I’d go with that, 20 Freescale engineers,1 IBM man & what were they taking with them plus any prototype models, or computers containing information on their latest research.

    All now retained by the Americans.

    Being moderated Ben ?
    Odd ………that happened to me yesterday when I was trying to post something on the US military !

  753. Katie; I’m chalking it up to software ignorance. They haven’t published keywords I think because they have inadvertently checked the wrong boxes and are trying to figure it out. They seem to be having problems in Houston. :)

  754. I think the Freescale guys were going to Beijing for a reason.


    Where they launched this


    “Freescale Expands RF Mobile Radio Portfolio with New Device for Handheld Applications”

    March 23, 2014 09:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time
    International Wireless Symposium (XI’AN, China)

  755. Hence…. the “52 week high”.

  756. No explanation needed (and I guess Chinese employees would be good to have there !)


  757. Logic see !

  758. Logic or diversion; You make the call/

  759. Freescale is so rich in their bizness expenses that they fly their people in a week before the symposium.

    Maybe they had to perfect their Powerpoint presentation…:)

  760. So that Symposium didn’t take place.

    Freescale were definitely not an exhibitor there.

    And they certainly did not launch a new product.

    Are you for real ? How bizarre are you becoming ?

  761. So why submit? (rhetorical question alert)

  762. Ben

    I’m not arguing with cranks or the clinically insane.

    Have a nice life, get medical help, whatever…. You skip my posts. I