Elm Guest House

by craig on July 2, 2014 5:12 pm in Uncategorized

There is a huge amount of dancing on eggshells going on today in the media about the dossier on paedophile activity with which Leon Brittan came in contact in the 1980s. It is pretty plain there is a subtext here.

A number of people have contacted me for some years over the Elm Guest House paedophile ring. Frankly I did not particularly believe it, or thought it was exaggerated. But I confess my eyes have been opened by the Jimmy Savile, Cyril Smith and Rolf Harris affairs and the extent of complicity and even protection which they received from the establishment.

I have blogged before that, in the Savile case, as his behaviour was apparently compulsive and constant, I found it hard to believe it was not known in the very senior societal circles in which he spent so much of his time. I am convinced that perception was right.

Savile is not linked in to the Elm House paedophile ring, as far as I know, but Cyril Smith is. So were the then head of the Royal Protection Unit and of Special Branch. That to me raises all sorts of queries about whether they were not just participating themselves but protecting someone very senior indeed. I have been convinced that it is true that social workers interviewing child victims were indeed threatened with guns by Special Branch to drop it, and that paperwork has been confiscated and destroyed.

On Cyril Smith, Channel 4 Dispatches on 12 September 2013 reported that:

‘Speaking for the first time, former CID officer Jack Tasker tells the programme that Special Branch officers arrived at his office, told him to halt his investigations and demanded that the file be handed over to them,.“They made it quite clear that anything that was kept by us would bring repercussions if we didn’t hand it over; that as far as we are concerned, the inquiry is finished … you will take no more inquiries into Cyril Smith

Compare that to what happened to child protection officer Chris Fay in his Elm House investigation, as reported in the Express:

Mr Fay, 67, of south London, said: “It became very dangerous. People seem to forget that Special Branch could do what they liked, they were a law unto themselves.

“At one point they had me up against a wall by my throat with a gun at my head telling me in no uncertain terms that I was to back away if I knew what was good for me.

“A colleague of mine had the same treatment, as did a number of the volunteers. Victims who were actually abused at Elm House were also physically stopped from coming to speak to us at the NAYPIC office in north London.

“I witnessed Special Branch officers manhandling them and turning them away with a warning to keep their mouths shut. It was blatant, it was open, they were acting like gangsters.

In both Rochdale and in North London, Special Branch intervened to block the appropriate authorities on the ground from investigating what was a genuine paedophile scandal. I can see no other possible explanation than that the scandal involved figures a great deal more senior than Cyril Smith. From the Elm Guest House we have a pointer who some of those people were.

I really don’t want to blog any more about this, and I recommend you to have a search online. That involves trawling around some of the less pleasant parts of the internet, and I have seen material that is horribly anti-Semitic and anti-gay. But after years of dismissing the stories, on the grounds that they are promulgated by unpleasant people, in unpleasant newspapers, or cannot be true, I realise I was wrong.

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161 Comments

  1. Brave post Craig,thanks you.

  2. Nothing anti anything in this outline but you just have to feel very sorry for the children who were abused and hope that their lives were not completely wrecked by these disgusting men.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elm_Guest_House_child_abuse_scandal

  3. I fear many lives were wrecked, Mary. It also appears some boys disappeared…

  4. Our “justice ” system has been sitting on the information for decades. They knew.
    What are they going to do, put them all posthumously into jail ?
    Harris has only a few years left. There’s no justice in putting him away now. They could’ve done it way back then. What they need to do is put away the Officers that protected these criminals into the dock.For sure the stench will be in Westminster.
    Cyril Smith I doubt was a lone wolf.

  5. I am surprised nobody has yet mentioned Haut de la Garenne.

  6. lucythediclonius

    2 Jul, 2014 - 5:58 pm

    I don’t know The Elm Grove case but I do know the North Wales one very well .I have no doubt that the Regan twins sincerely believed the story.I can verify that they were harassed I think I had the last copy of Scallywag before the disabled war veteran who sold it at London Bridge was persuaded to retire.

  7. David S Briggs

    2 Jul, 2014 - 6:03 pm

    @Donny Darko

    In what way is it ‘justice’ that he not be punished for his conduct?

    People have given evidence at great personal cost to themselves.

    It would be a criminal injustice not to put him away for the rest of his life.

  8. lucythediclonius

    2 Jul, 2014 - 6:05 pm

    http://scallywagmagazine.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/scallywag-magazine-article-on-lord.html
    I didn’t post this my finger clicked on the link accidentally.

  9. BrianFujisan

    2 Jul, 2014 - 6:11 pm

    Agree with Jives… Brave post indeed

    i fear its a very Large circle… Evil souless B%$££££Ds

  10. nevermind, viva beautiful football

    2 Jul, 2014 - 6:23 pm

    Good post and long overdue. But it looks like this is an establishment activity, going by the threats from special branch. And the MI’s probably know all about it.
    So easy to manipulate these paedophiles, one phone call and men stand on their head and clap their toes.

    BTW.O/T I have seen your double today, Craig, the spitting image of you, same hairstyle, colour hair, BUT, he sat in an opentop sports car with a lovely lady sitting next to him. I know you don’t drive, but this chap looked so like you I raised my hand as a first response, but then realised it couln’t possibly be you.

  11. I used to dismiss stories not because they were promulgated by unpleasant people – it seems that most of the people who gravitate towards Parliament, banks and the newspapers are unpleasant – but because they sounded too far-fetched to my boringly conventional, rather old-fashioned self to be true. How many child molesters can there be out there anyway? Why would anybody want to start a war? At this stage in my life I don’t dismiss anything anymore. There are stories and conspiracy theories out there to which I don’t give much credence, but hardly anything that I dismiss out of hand. I try to keep an open mind and wait for the story to develop in the fullness of time. The world is crazy and there hardly seems a truer statement in the English language than that ‘fact is stranger than fiction’.

    Incidentally, if the stories about Special Branch are true, then they are shocking and appalling. As policemen, are they not sworn to uphold the law without fear of favour? Or does being in Special Branch give them a pass? In either case, how do they sleep at night?

  12. Sooner or later they are going to run out of ageing, B-list celebrities to prosecute. What will they use to misdirect us then?

  13. I did not know that Brittan and Rifkind are cousins.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Brittan

    I always thought Thatcher was in great awe of Brittan. She seemed to cow tow to him.

  14. No provision for comments under this morning’s Guardian piece.

    Lord Brittan asked officials to review Westminster paedophile dossier
    Labour MP claims ex-home secretary must ‘share his knowledge’ about file on alleged abuse in 1980s as he speaks of Cyril Smith allegations
    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jul/02/lord-brittan-westminster-paedophile-information-exchange-dossier

  15. As Tom Pride has just noted, there is already a Cease and Desist order issued to Google for searches containing the words Leon Brittan and PIE.

    http://tompride.wordpress.com/2014/07/02/google-searches-for-leon-brittan-and-pie-censored-after-cease-and-desist-notice/

    That was quick. :/

  16. David S Briggs: The Police have been sitting on evidence about Harris,Saville & Co for years.
    It’s great that they’ve put him away for his crimes.He and many more, and the un-named could’ve been behind bars years ago however, less victims.
    My brother was in the CID in London back then and brought it up once,not mentioning names but said that paedophiles were at the top of Politics ,Pop and TV. Our Police forces have been allowing these people to walk free and commit crimes.
    Is it just a case of sacrificial lambs and the wolves are enjoying their retirement ? Or are the wolves still at it ?

  17. But after years of dismissing the stories, on the grounds that they are promulgated by unpleasant people…

    This is an unwarranted generalization that smears those more diligent than yourself in seeking to expose a vile abuse of children and the apparent role of the Security Service in covering up such crimes.

    That the police and security service are implicated is of profound significance. But you “really don’t want to blog any more about this.” Oh well, tra-la-la. Let’s just ignore the fact that the country may be run by spooks who have a bunch of politicians by the balls, and think of something nice, like a free and democratic Scotland made rich beyond the dreams of avarice with the proceeds of the lovely oil industry, and unencumbered by NATO, Trident bases, or US listening posts and radar installations.

  18. CanSpeccy

    You seem to have missed the “I was wrong” at the end of that sentence.

  19. KoWN, there’s quite a long list of prominant attendees at Elm Guest House halfway down this superb report of the scandal from December 2013, which also includes a video interview with Chris Fay of NAYPIC:

    UK Establishment Closes Ranks as Organised Child Sex Abuse Network Leads Back to No. 10:
    http://www.scriptonitedaily.com/2013/12/18/uk-establishment-closes-ranks-as-organised-paedophile-network-leads-back-to-no-10/

    No wonder David Cameron is humming and hahring about an over-arching inquiry, eh? There’s also a growing list of MPs (up to 129 now) calling for it. This report shows who has and – possibly more interestingly, given the subject matter – who hasn’t signed up:

    Pressure builds in Parliament to address child sex abuse in UK:
    http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5282/pressure-builds-in-parliament-to-address-child-sex-abuse-in-uk

    Related, and coming from a Home Office whistleblower just this weekend, news that MI6 funded the notorious Paedophile Information Exchange looking for blackmail targets:

    EXCLUSIVE: Secret service infiltrated paedophile group to ‘blackmail establishment’
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/485529/Special-Branch-funded-Paedophile-Information-Exchange-says-Home-Office-whistleblower

    Artist Taxi Driver has a most amusing take on the whole sordid mess:

    https://twitter.com/chunkymark/status/484372633761239040

  20. Arbed

    Thanks. That first link is a good sober account.

  21. Clearly a case of a lone rotten apple and no organised cover up at all!

    In fact there has never been a trend of any sorts and the scurrilous rumours about the Kincora boys home ran by terrorists and frequented by the luminaries whom were duly photographed and filmed which were then the stuff of making mirth for the special agents of the very special services, are all lies too!

    The senator from Jersey got the kick in the nuts and all is well in that tax haven, clearly nothing wrong there too.

    Where would the zionists have been? If it were not for the blackmail and coercion of the relevant nodes of power, that have been made to see the world in a much more clear light after having been enlightened about their keepsakes photos?

  22. nevermind, viva beautiful football

    2 Jul, 2014 - 7:50 pm

    “There is a huge amount of dancing on eggshells going on today in the media about the dossier on paedophile activity with which Leon Brittan came in contact in the 1980s. It is pretty plain there is a subtext here.”

    Yes, but surely we must have all the confidence in the world that a home secretary would do the right thing and forward such an important report…………..

    http://theduckshoot.com/was-leon-brittan-arrested-on-paedophile-charges/

  23. You seem to have missed the “I was wrong” at the end of that sentence.

    Yes, I misread that. Sorry.

  24. And what was that article in Spiked magazine about a Cabinet Minister’s alleged activities in a North African hotel – the issue before the editor Angus James Wilson suddenly died in a mysterious 1996 road accident in Cyprus?

  25. Well I can categorically say that I heard the rumours about LB in the mid-1980’s at Glasgow university. Incidentally I also heard the rumours about Jimmy Savile in Manchester in the early 1990’s so I’ve heard then then they must already have been common knowledge since I’m hardly a gossip maven.

  26. BBC page just updated. Under the ‘politics’ heading. They should have an extra one headed ‘Perverts, Pederasts and Paedophiles’.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28125537

    It has had 12 versions, so far! http://www.newssniffer.co.uk/articles/803171/diff/10/11

  27. JRQ

    What rumour did you hear in the early 2000s?

  28. Am I understanding correctly? Only Nevermind has said it so far. I guess others are not bothering to state the obvious. To be clear:

    This is, or at least incorporates, a Security Service operation to control through blackmail?

  29. Peacewisher

    2 Jul, 2014 - 9:54 pm

    It also needs to be said, if not stating the obvious, that Leon Brittan then got a job in Brussels.

  30. Phil,

    Not only controlled, also funded.

    From a Home Office whistleblower just this weekend, news that MI6/Special Branch funded the Paedophile Information Exchange as a convenient way to look for blackmail targets:

    EXCLUSIVE: Secret service infiltrated paedophile group to ‘blackmail establishment’
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/485529/Special-Branch-funded-Paedophile-Information-Exchange-says-Home-Office-whistleblower

  31. There is a suggestion that Leon left Britain to join the EU gravy train as he was a pedo. That is just a rumour.

  32. Not a peep on the BBC 10pm news main headlines. Fifth item in. It was headed by an item on female genital mutilation by June Kelly with a word or two from that nice Mr Vaz, always ready to help out when the pressure is on.

    Almost – Elm Houae did not exist, it never existed, what was said to have happened there never happened.

    ~~~~

    Just for further diversion, there is a aircraft terrrrrr alert in conjunction with the US. All very airy fairy and lacking in substance.

  33. Reginald's tender ruby orb

    2 Jul, 2014 - 10:16 pm

    The dossier never surfaced? Guess nobody ever asked Blunt’s handlers for their annotated copy.

    At this rate the independence referendum is going to need three choices, Yes, No, and Ick.

  34. Vaz appears on the fringes of the Elm House scandal. He was the lawyer for Richmond Council whose children’s home was bringing in the children, allegedly.

  35. How MI5 vetted Savile. And decided paedophilia was nothing to worry about.

    26Jun 2014
    (not satire – unfortunately)

    According to that hotbed of left-wing, anti-establishment conspiracy theories, the Daily Telegraph reckons Jimmy Savile would have been vetted by MI5 as far back as the 1960s – and Bond, Moneypenny, M etc would have continued vetting him until at least the 1980s.

    Well, obviously the Telegraph doesn’t now say as much – because that might prove to be a tad too uncomfortable for its pro-establishment readership – but it did reveal in an article it printed way back in 2006 that staff at the BBC, including reporters, newsreaders and presenters, were all vetted by MI5. (link)

    That clearly would have included the BBC’s star presenter Jimmy Savile.

    Which rather begs this question:

    Were the nation’s finest spies so incompetent they didn’t discover what apparently everyone else knew about Savile’s fondness for abusing children, or did they consider abusing children not a good enough reason to bar someone from employment?

    I think we should be told. Don’t you?

    http://tompride.wordpress.com/2014/06/26/how-mi5-vetted-savile-and-decided-paedophilia-was-nothing-to-worry-about/

  36. Mary, yes and presumably as a regular visitor to Buckingham Palace he would have been exhaustively vetted.

  37. I think I may have noted in Murder of Samarkand that when I had my last positive vetting at the FCO in 2003, the vetting officer, a very experienced gentleman, had been asked to look at my relationships with various ladies. He told me it made a change because it was usually young boys. I just thought it was a joke at the time…

  38. There is rumor {and another, and another ,et cetera} that judges, {inter alia, as imagination might suggest}, are selected based on hard blackmail being readily available {i.e. on-hand}that guarantees future control {as the need arises}.

    Gaming the system of governance can be that easy.

    E.g., recall the ancient Persia was associated with using assassination to terminatedly handle pesky foreign leaders. Even beloved family members were fair fame.

  39. A great deal of referenced research regarding the Elm Guest House nasty business is here: http://spotlightonabuse.wordpress.com/

    Latest post:
    Elm Guest House: The History of a Cover-up (updated)

    The Elm Guest House story broke on 7th August 1982, when the Daily Express reported that “at least three MPs, a member of staff at Buckingham Palace, and leading lawyers, doctors and City businessmen” were questioned as part of inquires relating to “a vice ring” in “a brothel in a smart London suburb”.

    Over the next 10 days more lurid allegations emerged in almost every national newspaper.

    [links to all the national news reports found for those ten days about the Elm Guest House paedophile ring]:

    Daily Express (7.8.82)
    News of the World (8.8.82)
    Sunday Times (8.8.82)
    Daily Express (9.8.82)
    Daily Mail (9.8.82)
    Daily Star (a) (9.8.82)
    Daily Star (b) (9.8.82)
    The Guardian (9.8.82)
    The Sun (9.8.82)
    The Times (9.8.82)
    Daily Express (10.8.82)
    Daily Star (10.8.82)
    News of the World (15.8.82)
    Daily Express (16.8.82)

    After those initial 10 days of reporting there was nothing more in the papers. The reason for this silence is revealed in an article which appeared in Capital Gay magazine from August 1982.

    Libel threats were used to silence the newspapers from reporting on the VIP paedophile ring. The Attorney General, Sir Michael Havers, personally investigated complaints from lawyers representing Elm Guest House.

    Sir Michael Havers played a leading role in the Sir Peter Hayman cover-up, and told Geoffrey Dickens not to name the paedophile diplomat in Parliament. Havers argued that Hayman should have retained his anonymity, and didn’t think the British public needed to know that powerful Establishment figures abused children.

    Scotland Yard denied the allegations made by the Daily Express that the guest house’s visitor list included three MPs and a member of Buckingham Palace staff. A spokesman for Elm Guest House told Capital Gay “these were professional business people. We are talking about barristers, doctors, a couple of priests and a vicar”.

    It’s clear that Scotland Yard, Sir Michael Havers, and the Elm Guest House lawyers were all following the same script. It’s easy to blame the press for their part in the cover-up, but they were up against the most senior police and law officers in the country.

    (more at the Spotlight site)

    Well done Graig, for highlighting the Elm Guest House subject.

  40. Yes, I misread that. Sorry.

    Or maybe I didn’t? At least what you say is highly ambiguous.

    Specifically, you said:

    But after years of dismissing the stories, on the grounds that they are promulgated by unpleasant people, in unpleasant newspapers, or cannot be true, I realise I was wrong.

    So what are you admitting to being wrong about? Dismissing the stories or claiming that the stories are promulgated by unpleasant people?

    Without clarification, I stick to my conclusion, namely, that you have made “an unwarranted generalization that smears those more diligent than yourself in seeking to expose a vile abuse of children and the apparent role of the Security Service in covering up such crimes.”

    As for your classification of newspapers, you seem to be saying that those that fail to report unpleasant truths about the ruling elite are more pleasant, or less unpleasant, than those that do. An odd attitude for a serious commentator.

  41. I think the scandal is far greater than just top people involved. To me it’s most probable the abuse of children in homes was run by people high up and the intelligence services as a money making and blackmailing venture on a vast scale. And this is why the Establishment is so desperate to cover it up. At present to divert people’s attention from the real scandal they’re prosecuting celebrities.

  42. See also this search result I recently saved:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Brfw9T1IMAA_1rG.png:large

  43. “As for your classification of newspapers, you seem to be saying that those that fail to report unpleasant truths about the ruling elite are more pleasant, or less unpleasant, than those that do. ”

    You are making an assumption of guilt, a sweeping generalization or your own. Many unpleasant sources, not just newpapers, have made accusations that are untrue let alone unpleasant.

    It’s unfortunate that Geoffery Dickens was regarded as a buffoon during his time as an MP so there’s no way of knowing how seriously his dossier was treated or indeed if it was 100% reliable to begin with.

  44. “It’s unfortunate that Geoffery Dickens was regarded as a buffoon during his time as an MP so there’s no way of knowing how seriously his dossier was treated or indeed if it was 100% reliable to begin with.”

    or

    It’s unfortunate that Geoffery Dickens was portrayed as a buffoon during his time as an MP, undermining the seriousness of his dossier and casting doubt upon its reliability.

  45. His son has said that after he named paedo diplomat Peter Hayman in the House of Commons, certain other MP’s treated his contributions with contempt. It would be useful to have the names of those MP’s.

  46. Lone dissenting voice

    3 Jul, 2014 - 2:27 am

    Personally I don’t believe a word of it. It’s surely the ravings of deranged fantasists abetted by idiots and crooks on the make, like that weird “satanic abuse” furore a few years back, and like much of the recent Savile hysteria. Jimmy Savile couldn’t physically have done a tenth of the things we’re now supposed to believe he did. It’s plainly nonsense. We’ll look back at all this crap in a few years time with incredulity and shame.

  47. Craig @ 11.19pm,

    So you seem to be suggesting that our so called overlords and watchers have known about the Establishment’s young male flesh taste for along time then?

    I aint surprised.

    This is only the start of this horrific story.

    I only hope that the guilty and complicit get theirs.

    Bastards,evil evil bastards.

  48. Oddly or not so oddly, todays Guardian has a front-page piece on Brittan, and, further down, an article titled ‘The secret history of the jazz greats who were freemasons’: http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/jul/02/secret-jazz-freemason-history-duke-ellington-sun-ra

    Probably a coincidence but it does remind us about an important element in the police/criminal/politician corruption nexus: masonry.

  49. ^
    Freemasonry?

    Nice ideals but sadly corrupted by its inherent flaw of corruptability-particularly in local,ahem,levels.

    If only the young enticed apprentices knew the real future implications of their foot soldierdom to the few at the top who might twist the dial askew for their own less than fraternal impulses…

  50. Canspeccy, Nevermind, and Phil, I agree; the child abuse is just the means. The end is control via blackmail. For MI5 and Special Branch to merely protect powerful and/or famous abusers would not be worth the risk of exposure. The rewards have to be at a greater scale than the merely personal.

    Any links to the Dutroux case?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Dutroux#Allegations_of_cover-up

    There was widespread anger and frustration among Belgians due to police errors, the general slowness of the investigation and Dutroux’s claims that he was part of a sex ring that included high-ranking members of the police force and government. This suspicion that Dutroux had been, or was being, protected, and anger over the outcome, culminated when the popular judge in charge of investigating the claims was dismissed on the grounds of having participated in a fund-raising dinner for the girls’ parents. The investigation itself was wrapped up. His dismissal and end of the investigation resulted in a massive protest march (the “White March”) of 300,000 people on the capital, Brussels, in October 1996, two months after Dutroux’s arrest, in which demands were made for reforms of Belgium’s police and justice system.

    On the witness stand, Jean-Marc Connerotte (fr), the original judge of the case, broke down in tears when he described “the bullet-proof vehicles and armed guards needed to protect him against the shadowy figures determined to stop the full truth coming out. Never before in Belgium has an investigating judge at the service of the king been subjected to such pressure. We were told by police that [murder] contracts had been taken out against the magistrates.” Connerotte testified that the investigation was seriously hampered by protection of suspects by people in the government. “Rarely has so much energy been spent opposing an inquiry,” he said. He believed that the Mafia had taken control of the case.[9]

  51. “It’s unfortunate that Geoffery Dickens was portrayed as a buffoon during his time as an MP, undermining the seriousness of his dossier and casting doubt upon its reliability ”

    Slightest bit of research would prove that his reputation was well established before he produced his dossier and that it and his position on other isues such as corporal and capital punishment mad it difficult for him to garner support.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/obituaries–geoffrey-dickens-1619966.html

  52. Salford Lad

    3 Jul, 2014 - 4:40 am

    The favourite forms of control ,used by the power elite in many countries for many centuries are bribes, privilege, and of course blackmail.
    There is no stronger form of blackmail in Western civilisation than to be accused of paedophilia.It is abhorrent to all normal citizens. Very few politicians rise to the top of the tree unless they can be controlled.
    The Secret service are but the foot soldiers of the power elite and are the ones who collect the evidence of the peccadiloes of their targets. In some cases the targets are set up in ‘sting ‘operations’.
    The evidence is not allowed to become public knowledge, as it would of course remove its effectiveness as a threat.
    The recent exposure of the proclivities of celebrities in the swinging ’60’s. is but a distraction and a deception for the sheeple.
    The real targets of blackmail have always been politicians who can be pressured to use their vote and influence to affect changes in laws and decisions to suit the Real Powers that be.
    It has always been thus.

  53. What’s that Craig? You shan’t be blogging on any of this again? In that case I’ll doubt you’ll have much to say that’s going to be of any use. Whilst I’ll concede that it’s possible that there are people in positions of power who aren’t corrupt and thus blackmail-able, we may as well view such people as being the equivalent of hen’s teeth. In much the same way that one can’t join a criminal gang without having killed someone so it is in the halls of power – without your fellow gang members being able to bring you down you may not join.

    That is who rules us and it’s why we see impossible anti-democratic decisions one after another. None of them have any say in the matter. And here you are imagining we can discuss them as if they were rational actors. They’re not and we can’t.

    If this sounds too unlikely, it’s only because you haven’t thought it through: the reason these stories are disappeared with extreme prejudice isn’t because it may lead to ‘someone very senior indeed’. Someone? One person? Pah! Ditch ’em! Who cares? It’s dog eat dog with nary a tear to be shed unless there’s a camera nearby and the situation calls.

    And then there’s the cops. Special Branch wasn’t threatening people because they’d magically connected truth-telling person ‘alpha’ with wicked person ‘omega’ via an I-say-Holmes-you-are-brilliant six degrees of separation. Who has the time, or the smarts, for that? Not the cops. They only know one thing: that each truth-telling alpha is only ever one degree of separation from a structure comprised almost entirely of wicked ‘betas’, with the police themselves not least amongst ’em.

    Whilst it’s true that the police and special branch were protecting Jimmy Savile, he wasn’t really the point of the exercise. The cops don’t know what he’s done nor whom he leads to. They didn’t know about: his eleven Xmases with Margaret Thatcher; his extreme chumminess with Prince Charles; and of course the absurdity of Edwina Curry declaring Savile as just the chap to have the run of sundry public hospitals and psychiatric facilities. But they didn’t need to, they just took it as read. They understood that this was the THING, the unspeakable thing, the thing you cannot leave, the thing that will be your death.

    As for Elm Guest House, head in any direction you like and every trip will be one degree of separation. First cab off the rank? Margaret Hodge, who post-Elm was instantly appointed Minister for Children by her very good friend Tony Blair. It’s so fucking obvious that the word irony is banned on account of ‘not good enough’.

    But never mind, let’s talk about the world as if it wasn’t thus. Lovely Lovely. But for those who like their truth black and bitter, no milk and sugar, I recommend two tireless campaigners, the marvellous Aangirfan and the redoubtable Coleman. For these two Elm is but a single step on a road that heads in every direction.

    Off we go now!

  54. How many paedophiles?
    A few years back I read a report that estimated 10% of the population are involved with paedophile. I wish I could remember/find the report. It seemed very credible and included some case studies.

  55. It is understandable that Craig says he doesn’t want to blog about this anymore. Who would even want to read or think about any of this, but he said he doesn’t want to not that he wouldn’t.

    Brave post – although in odd company as even the Express has appeared brave on this.

  56. Not The Silence of the Lambs but The Silence of the Trolls on this thread.

    Why is that one asks?

  57. This legislation was not really designed to assist Joe and Josephine Bloggs was it?

    ‘Right to be forgotten’ and online search engines ruling

    Date: 03/06/2014

    As Google announced it would take the necessary measures to comply with the European Court of Justice’s landmark ruling from 13 May on the right to be forgotten, Vice-President Reding said the following: “It is a good development that Google has announced that it will finally take the necessary measures to respect European law. It was about time since European data protection laws exist since 1995. It took the European Court of Justice (ECJ) to say so. The right to be forgotten and the right to free information are not foes but friends.”

    To those who claim the ruling and the right to be forgotten endangered media freedom she firmly replied: “It’s not about protecting one at the expense of the other but striking the right balance in order to protect both. The European Court made it clear that two rights do not make a wrong and has given clear directions on how this balance can be found and where the limits of the right to be forgotten lie. The Court also made clear that journalistic work must not be touched; it is to be protected.

    Consult a factsheet on ECJ’s ruling pdf(3 MB) Choose translations of the previous link on the ‘right to be forgotten’ for more details, the facts of the case, and how it affects you.

    http://ec.europa.eu/justice/newsroom/data-protection/news/140602_en.htm

  58. To anyone reading this who is thinking about what is evil / bad I recommend: http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Philosopher-Wolf-Lessons-Happiness/dp/1847081029

    The author Mark Rowlands lives with a wolf and considers what is evil. He concludes that it is when we take advantage of the weaker without justification. To kill to survive, to eat, for self defence is one thing, but to harm the weak for pleasure or experimentation or some unnecessary advantage is fundamentally wrong.

    What happens, when a secret actor concludes that he can serve the public good by harming an innocent child, for eg by setting up a victim so that he can blackmail. Can it ever serve the public good to blackmail? Surely in real politics and between states it must have happened for thousands of years. What if such an unconscionable act averted a war? Would that be justified?

    I conclude that if you take such a step it is a slippery step. One act of evil to avert a war will become acts of evil for far pettier benefits and eventually will just be there to perpetuate the evil status quo.

    So what can any one do?

    Remember yourself always. Every exploitation every evil step no mater what its apparent justification will set you on the wrong path. the right path is usually the more difficult one in every situation.

    Good luck to everyone.

    Be sincere with yourself if not with others.

  59. Conservatives refuse to reveal guestlist for summer fundraising party

    Prime minister’s office claims there is no need to publish a list of invitees as David Cameron was not on ‘official business’
    Rowena Mason and Robert Booth
    The Guardian, Thursday 3 July 2014
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jul/03/conservatives-refuse-summer-fundraising-secret-guestlist

    No. Sliming round rich donors is not official business.

    Meanwhile, the NHS goes down the pan, the roads become more dilapidated, homes are closed,
    disabled benefits are cut, and there is even talk of disposing of parks and open spaces……the list goes on.

    Private splendour, public squalor.

    This is the meet. Some photos.
    http://socialexperiencesclub.co.uk/ideas/the-hurlingham-club-2/

  60. s/be care homes are closed.

    eg
    20 care homes and 17 day centres to be closed down by Devon County Council
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-27874195

    Find out what is going on in your own county and fight. You might need care yourselves one day and not be able to afford the cost which is about £1,000 a week in the private sector.

  61. I do not link to the Daily Mail, but this one is just slightly above that threshold…

    “Police lose 138 convicted paedophiles and many may have fled the country”
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/police-lose-138-convicted-paedophiles-1729585#ixzz36O2z7OgL

    I think it’s a pretty safe bet that the ones about which all the MSM fanfare is made about, are the expendables. It seems quite plausible to me that blue blood and useful politician paedo’s would deliberately bring in ordinary John Doe’s to provide distraction in the event that the usual intimidation fails or when investigators managed to get under the radar… just in case. If you were a kingpin of paedophillia, wouldn’t you?

    And yes thanks to Hatman 2 Jul, 2014 – 5:49 pm who pointed out the Haut de la Garenne cover up. Please Craig, research the work of Bill Maloney of Pie and Mash filsm and talk to him about the excellent work he has undertaken .

  62. Ba'al Zevul (Chimp Assassin)

    3 Jul, 2014 - 8:33 am

    http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5308/lord-brittan-and-home-office-issue-statements-on-missing-file

    During his time as one of Thatcher’s protected species, Brittan was outstanding even in that context as a Grade A platinum-plated creep.

    And this guy knows where the bodies are buried (maybe, I fear, literally):

    Nigel Pantling was one of Brittan’s two private secretaries from 1984. Asked whether he recalled the meeting, Pantling told Exaro: “I have no comment to make whatsoever. I am not saying that I can, I am not saying that I cannot. I have no comment to make whatsoever.”

    Possible translation: “I’m damned if I perjure myself for Brittan, and damned if I don’t.”

  63. Where are they now?

    http://www.nigelpantling.com/profile.html

    He gives strategic advice!

  64. RE: Haut de la Garenne

    If you like your information from more (ex) establishment types then look at what Graham Power has to say. He was the Chief of Police in Jersey who was illegally fired for allowing the investigation into Haut de la Garenne.

    Yet again another google search subject to censorship in the UK:
    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Haut+de+la+Garenne+graham+power

    If you prefer your search encensored use .com

    https://www.google.com/search?q=Haut+de+la+Garenne+graham+power

  65. nevermind, viva beautiful football

    3 Jul, 2014 - 8:52 am

    I’ll second LWTC’s pleading, because that man has done a lot of work and he’s, no doubt, on a few hitlists but easy to discredit as he was subsumed by the system of ‘childcare’.

    The usual celebrity suspects have been sacrificed now we come to those who let were too selfish to ring the alarm buttons, those who look on, sigh and let it happen, because they are the gatekeepers who could have done something about it.

    I fear that some other calamitous incident will make this issue secondary, newswise. Control over people is at the heart of this despicable and sordid crime. When will we see interviews of those B actors, who has the report that Brittain ‘lost’? and why should this be the only trail to follow in any investigation of inquiry.

    Finally what use is an inquiry that has a brief that looks like blinkers on a horse?

  66. @ Clark.

    “Canspeccy, Nevermind, and Phil, I agree; the child abuse is just the means. The end is control via blackmail.”

    – How do you know? I mean, why are you so sure sexual perversion and indeed even satanism, is a non issue?. So these things in effect don’t exist or have no part to play in anything?

    From where I’m standing, it’s all of them. It’s also Talmudic.

  67. Brave journos knowing they could be taken out.

    http://www.exaronews.com/content/our-people

    Not so sure about their contributors though when you see the names of Lord Carlile and Neville Thurlbeck in the commentary lists.

  68. Five more Conservative MPs join cross-party call for CSA inquiry

    By David Hencke | 2 July 2014

    Five more Conservative MPs – including some party grandees – have joined the call for an overarching inquiry into child sex abuse.

    Meanwhile, Lord Brittan today issued two statements to explain what he did with a dossier on VIP paedophiles that was submitted to the Home Office in 1984. As Leon Brittan, he was then home secretary. List of 132 MPs who back the inquiry.

    http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5307/five-more-conservative-mps-join-cross-party-call-for-csa-inquiry

  69. For anyone not familiar with Haut de la Garenne:

    The union of rampant finance, ruthless corporations, corrupt politicians, compliant media, bent coppers, elite families and paedophilia in Jersey make a very real mafia state, a microcosm of the UK, all the more visible because of it’s small size.

    There have been many campaigners on this. For example ex Jersey Senator Stuart Syvret has been imprisoned and censored by google for his trouble.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=stuart+syvret

  70. Stuart Syvret is active on Twitter

    https://twitter.com/StuartSyvret

    and he has a blog
    http://freespeechoffshore.nl/stuartsyvretblog/

  71. Lwtc247

    I agree with Clark’s analysis. Power through control is the end game.

    Of course perversion and even satanic rituals may be part of the process but that does not detract from what seems to be a struggle about power.

    Possibly the more satanic side is in itself a distraction conjured by the same forces that enable these crimes.

    Bill Maloney is a good man who has pursued this tirelessly. I am not even sure that he would not agree it is all about power. I think he does. However, possibly his focus is more driven by his own demons.

  72. Thanks for posting this on your blog.

    The evidence indeed points to a paedophile ring, the participants of which received (and still receive?) establishment and police protection. Yes, there are names and conspiracies floating about on the net, but there is nothing that amounts to proof.

    Three points:

    1. The CPS which has shown such determination to pursue people in the entertainment industry for lesser crimes has not (or cannot) investigate this matter.

    2. The evidence of special branch officers intimidating child protection officers with guns gangster-style suggests serious criminal activity which needs investigation.

    3. I understand why you don’t wish to blog on this matter further: you can draw inferences from information already in the public domain, but have no special access to evidence. It is a shame that this matter is not a subject of investigation by journalists working outside the restrictions of the UK.

  73. Phil.
    “but that does not detract from what seems to be a struggle about power.” – I don’t dispute it is used for manipulation/control, which raises the question WHO is doing the controlling?
    My point was that because people are lured into this in the first place, there must be ‘something’ in it that they want, which seems quite obvious that it’s sexual pleasure (albeit of a perverse nature) and judging by TheDuckShoot says (LB), there are elements of satanism in there too. To atheists however I guess such an issue wouldn’t really make sense.

  74. Bena
    “It is a shame that this matter is not a subject of investigation by journalists working outside the restrictions of the UK.”

    It is. Leah Mcgrath.

    http://leahmcgrathgoodman.com/2012/06/29/anarchy-in-the-uk/

  75. LWtc247
    “My point was that because people are lured into this in the first place, there must be ‘something’ in it that they want.”

    Power. Money. Kicks. And maybe, although it is hard to believe, love.

    I guess we all struggle to understand paedophilia. It is almost too much to contemplate for most of us.

    Experts seem to say that it is a learned behaviour, a reaction to experience – it seems all paedophiles had childhood traumas. Usually sexual and violent. Perhaps the nexus with power can be partly explained by the harsh stories one hears about the public school system. Beatings, fags, submission systematically applied might tip some over the edge.

    Of course paedophilia is not a class issue. In my life I have come across far too much of it amongst poor people as well. However, I do think it is possibly symptomatic of an elitist patriarchal world that denies the communal and disempowers women.

  76. Google have received 50,000 requests to remove search results since the EU ruled this into law. You can get around this absurd law.

    Do not use google.co.uk

    Do not use google.com (because this will take you to google.co.uk)

    Do use google.com/ncr. This will take you dot com and thus not subject to repressive EU censorship laws.

    F**k the EU.

  77. Soory didn’t create hyperlinks.

    Do use: http://www.google.com/ncr

  78. If we have any plane spotters there’s some nice footage of some SU25s in Iranian livery landing in Iraq on Tuesday.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah7HP6d42m8

  79. I used to think ‘aanirfan’ was utter tosh,
    until I looked at it as satire-noir.
    Now I just look at as piss poor stuff.

  80. Forget Leon and the paedos! The terrorists are back with a new type of bomb, even better than a pants bomb or a shoe bomb!

  81. Sorry, to be clear and tempt you to click the last two links:

    Forget Leon and the paedos! The terrorists are back with a new type of bomb, even better than a CIA pants bomb or a made up shoe bomb!

  82. O/T Shillary’s in town. She was on Woman’s Hour. Expressed her deep admiration for Miliband and Hague and emphasized the special relationship. Indeed. She went on to describe in great detail the events leading up to the killing of OBL (the worst 35 minutes of her life were spent watching it happen she said) and she was so convincing, it sounded almost true.

    Smooth tongued and smooth voiced.
    Note we have a year in which to hear her
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b048033v
    Hillary Clinton
    Duration: 45 minutes
    First broadcast:Thursday 03 July 2014Hillary Clinton was offered the post of US Secretary of State in 2008 by Barack Obama who just months earlier had been her rival for the Democratic Party’s nomination for the presidency. She took the job and with it the challenges of representing her country on the world stage. She talks to Jenni about her new book “Hard Choices’, about the tough decisions she faced in shaping US foreign policy.

    In 1973 Billie Jean King performed in the most watched tennis match ever. She played former tennis champion and keen chauvinist Bobby Riggs in The Battle of the Sexes. In a treat from our Archive she talks about a documentary made to mark the 40th anniversary of the match

    Vera Brittain, author of Testament of Youth published a controversial pamphlet in 1943 which argued against the Allied use of saturation bombing in Germany during the Second World War. The German city of Hamburg, two thirds of which was destroyed by Allied bombs has decided to honour her by naming a canal after her. Her daughter Baroness Shirley Williams and her friend Helge Rubinstein travelled back to the City last week and describe what it was like to receive the honour which, for different reasons, celebrates both their mothers.

    ~~
    I heard the end of the programme when the Zionist supporting presenter Jenni Murray* read out a message that had just been sent in. ‘Please run for president Hillary Clinton. You’d be the best grandnmother president in the world’. Yuk.

    She is on the One Show tonight. Matt Baker and Alex Jones were wetting their pants last night in anticipation of having this great woman on their show.

    * http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/amena-saleem/bbc-ignores-ethnic-cleansing-two-interviews-bedouin-activist

    I remember that Murray even managed to plug an Israeli in her piece on her hip surgery and medical problems.
    ‘I’m also going to join a class where an unfamiliar form of exercise is taught. It’s called Feldenkrais and was invented in Israel by an engineer who was also a judo expert.
    He worked out a series of movements based on the engineering of the body. It forces you to move your spine in every direction.’
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2675493/Jenni-Murray-sciatica-I-fear-having-hip-operation-gave-sciatica.html

  83. Ba'al Zevul (Chimp Assassin)

    3 Jul, 2014 - 12:00 pm

    Thanks, Phil.

    Keep an eye on this site for future developments.

    http://www.wormsgame.net/worms-2-game.htm

  84. LeicesterLad

    3 Jul, 2014 - 12:16 pm

    Two words: Magic Circle. I believe the heir to the throne is an Honorary Life Member.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/child-abuse-detectives-raid-labour-3740002

  85. “Were the nation’s finest spies so incompetent they didn’t discover what apparently everyone else knew about Savile’s fondness for abusing children, or did they consider abusing children not a good enough reason to bar someone from employment?”

    In some instances it might be that paedophile tendencies are in fact a requirement.

    “as a regular visitor to Buckingham Palace he would have been exhaustively vetted”

    Indeed. It was perfectly fine for Prince Charles to spend the weekend at Savile’s Glencoe cottage, the place that had a room filled with children’s bunk beds:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2222878/Jimmy-Savile-scandal-Inside-paedophiles-Glencoe-lair-20-suffered-abuse.html

    Then there’s the case of Paul Kidd, servant in the Royal household for over 20 years, sent down for paedophile offences in 1998:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/theroyalfamily/3121372/Paedophile-royal-butler-took-victims-to-tea-with-Queen-Mother.html

    Also Rolf Harris of course, friend and esteemed portrait painter of the monarch.

    All vetted, all paedophiles, all welcomed with open arms.

  86. The Jimmy Saville allegations have been exhaustively analysed on http://www.annaraccoon.com, especially the allegations surrounding Duncroft Approved School where “Anna” was herself a pupil. They are full of lies, fantasies and impossibilities. The Broadmoor allegations are especially absurd to anyone who’s actually been there as I have. These allegations are exactly what you would expect to surface when the alleged perp is dead and therefore unable to sue for libel, there is no prospect of cross-examination in court, twelve million pounds of Saville’s money is on offer (minus legal fees of course!)plus compensation from the BBC and criminal injuries, the gutter media (which nowadays includes the BBC themselves) are in a feeding frenzy, and (above all) the police have abandoned their proper role of investigators and have taken instead the role of pseudo-counsellors “facilitating closure” and promising that all accusations will be beleived.

    This doesn’t mean that all similar allegations are false. It does mean that we’re treading in a minefield of lies, fantasies, and hidden agendas. Especially if the security services are involved, lying blackmail and concealment being after all their modus operandi. There are many fantasists, psychotics, and pathological liars operating in this field- check a few back issues of Nexus megazine if you want examples! But then again, the protectors of Authority who have something genuine to hide will encourage the most unbeleivable fantasists, feeding them disinformation, to discredit more substantial allegations. There’s also the complicating factor that psychotics, addicts, and even habitual liars do sometimes tell the truth, and are obvious targets for abusers due to their lack of credibility, poverty, and (often) background in coercive institutions.

    The Elm Guest House list lacks credibility IMO. Ray Wyre was, until his early death, the most highly-respected expert on the treatment of paedophilia in this country. He was involved in the PROSECUTION of many paedophiles, and was doubtless hated by those who rejected therapy and wished to continue their activities without interference. Colin Jordan was a notorious British Nazi. I can beleive most conspiracy theories (JFK, RFK, 9/11, Hess, UFO coverups, etc) but the idea of Jordan socialising with a senior member of Sinn Fein is a bridge too far. Most of the other names are just well-known gays or alleged gays- from an era (1980s) when even Boy George and Marc Almond did not admit to being homosexual.

    But Craig is right to raise this issue, however difficult it is to sort the brave (but often very damaged) truth-tellers from the (sometimes clever and well-protected) liars with their many differing agendas. We should never forget Hitler’s assertion that (approximate quote) “If you’re going to lie, tell the biggest lie and stick to it. Small people tell small lies every day, but haven’t the guts to tell a huge lie, and so assume that no one else would either.”

    If Smith, a very “local” northern politician, was really protected by SB, who are London-based, then this does suggest he was protected not for his own sake but for fear of whom else he might bring down with him.

  87. Gideon has no paedophile tendencies as far as we know. It was drugs and a black prostitute I seem to remember.

    Anyway some pushy parents have put their children up to appear in this filmed Q and A with him. Propaganda for next year’s election.

    Osborne: ‘I Could Have Done More’ For Economy

    The Chancellor is quizzed by readers of children’s newspaper First News in an exclusive interview for Sky News.http://news.sky.com/story/1293968/osborne-i-could-have-done-more-for-economy

  88. lwtc247, 8:53 am:

    “How do you know? I mean, why are you so sure sexual perversion and indeed even satanism, is a non issue?”

    Sexual perversion and Satanism are not non-issues, but they are personal. They help explain why specific individuals got involved. They don’t explain the protection by Special Branch and MI5.

    Satanism does make sense to atheists; it’s just another form of religion, and like all religions, it provides many of its participants with excuses to do appalling things and helps them believe stuff that obviously isn’t true.

  89. Pete

    “The Jimmy Saville allegations have been exhaustively analysed on [some crap site], especially the allegations surrounding Duncroft Approved School where “Anna” was herself a pupil. They are full of lies, fantasies and impossibilities.”

    I followed your link. I didn’t find any exhaustive analysis. The couple of Duncroft articles I skimmed were far from this. Please explain how the allegations are disproved and maybe even link to a piece that offers more than opinion.

    “The Broadmoor allegations are especially absurd to anyone who’s actually been there as I have.”

    Please explain what about Broadmoor makes the allegations untrue.

    “There are many fantasists, psychotics, and pathological liars operating in this field- check a few back issues of Nexus megazine if you want examples!”

    Yes I would like examples! Any chance you can provide links rather than suggest we search a back catalogue for something we are not sure what it is?

    “from an era (1980s) when even Boy George and Marc Almond did not admit to being homosexual.”

    Ok. I’ve just realised, you are talking s**t. I should have read your whole comment before replying. Bye.

  90. Baal
    “Wormsgame”

    ?? Sorry, that’s lost on me.

  91. No 10’s Patrick Rock charged and will appear at Southwark Crown Court in a fortnight.

    Patrick Rock: Ex-Govt Aide Faces Court
    Patrick Rock is charged with making and possessing indecent photographs of children.
    http://news.sky.com/story/1294388/patrick-rock-ex-govt-aide-faces-court

    I notice ‘ex-Govt’. Gone off with the pension and goodies one assumes.

  92. Has Pete ever commented here before?

  93. Lone Dissenting Voice

    3 Jul, 2014 - 4:54 pm

    You all seem to have taken leave of your senses. Even the more sensible people who comment here appear to have truly bought into this absurd fairytale. Perhaps you all now believe in giant alien lizards in high places, too? Wake up !

  94. “Ray Wyre was, until his early death, the most highly-respected expert on the treatment of paedophilia in this country”

    Not exactly. His techniques were controversial. His use of group therapy was not widely supported and his plan to position a clinic for child abuse victims next to his clinic for sex offenders was considered daft and was rejected.

    “He was involved in the PROSECUTION of many paedophiles, and was doubtless hated by those who rejected therapy and wished to continue their activities without interference”

    Proves nothing. And why “doubtless”? Such a position would be ideal for a serious paedophile. Before becoming a social worker Wyre was a priest.

  95. “Even the more sensible people who comment here appear to have truly bought into this absurd fairytale”

    Which absurd fairy tale did you have in mind?

  96. Lone Dissenting Voice
    “You all seem to have taken leave of your senses.”

    So you have said. Twice. I am definitely open to not believing this but you offer nothing except your indignant incredulity. Got an argument?

  97. @Mary, odd question you ask, but yes I have commented here before, though I doubt if I will bother to do so again. Will still read Craig’s blog of course, as he is genuinely very knowledgable and intelligent even when I disagree with him.

    @Phil, I don’t normally reply to verbal abuse, but in answer to your question about Broadmoor, due to the nature of the patients treated there, no staff member is ever left alone with a patient. Even more so someone was not a health professional but a volunteer.

    As to your remarks about having “skimmed” the Duncroft articles on the annaraccoon site, in the less than 2.5 hours between my post and yours you would not have had the time to even “skim” these very long articles, let alone to read them properly. And they’re not the kind of articles you can “skim” anyway.

    @MJ The fact that Ray Wyre was an ex-priest doesn’t “prove” anything either.

  98. Fool
    “I conclude that if you take such a step it is a slippery step.”

    I am way out of my shallow depths discussing philosophy but I think your comment touches on a well trodden tension exemplified by the polar perspectives of utilitarianism and Immanuel Kant.

    Like you seem to be, Fool, I am in the Kant camp (although for possibly different reasons). Never take action to abuse an individual in the name of a greater good.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=utilitarianism+vs+immanuel+kant

  99. Pete

    “I don’t normally reply to verbal abuse”

    Well I don’t normally reply to whiny types with zero to contribute. I do have a naturally course tone and will say the s word when someone says idiotic untruths as if they had meaning. Don’t be so easily offended and try not to talk nonsense instead. Almond and Boy George were so out in the 1980s. It makes you look a ridiculous to say otherwise.

    “no staff member is ever left alone with a patient”

    OK thanks for this response but Edwina Curry and others have said Saville had a set of pass keys and the run of the place. So any rule about being alone would seem fairly irrelevant.

    “2.5 hours between my post and yours you would not have had the time to even “skim” these very long articles”

    You must be a slow reader. I can skim tow articles in 2.5 hours.

    I notice you again fail to explain how she destroys the case against Saville or provide a link to her “exhaustive analysis”.

    Instead of tone trolling why not provide some reason for your assertions. Otherwise you come across as full of the s word stuff. Now f word off and cry to your mum.

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