Now is the Winter of our Disinterment

by craig on February 5, 2013 7:01 am in Uncategorized

The researchers had a hunch he was there. ATOS pass Richard III’s skeleton as fit to work.

Joking aside, the discovery of Richard III’s body is fascinating and wonderful. Aside from Shakespeare’s brilliant play (which is evidently not as physically inaccurate as we have been told for years), and the question of who killed the Princes in the Tower, there is a romance about lost dynasties which appeals to a deep human yearning for a golden age when things were somehow better, and for “lost futures”. What might have been, had those evil Stanleys not turned on Richard at Bosworth and put their miserable Welsh accountant on the throne?

Richard is described in today’s newspapers as the last English King. The Plantagenets were of course Angevin. The last English King – indeed the only English King of all England – was Harold Godwinson. Now there’s a lost dynasty for you.

We now know that Richard’s “Claim of Right” was almost certainly true and Edward IV a bastard, as his father was nowhere near his mother for months around the purported conception. But the so-called Royal line is, I am quite sure, sprinkled with bastards and no line at all. Not to mention that George I was 39th in line to the throne when given it 300 years ago, but the first Protestant.

Monarchy is bollocks, and something we should have outgrown a long time ago. Nice to see that today’s Prince Harry retains the tradition of remorseless homicide though.

Leicester University deserve congratulations on a genuine achievement. I hope Richard can now be reburied as soon as possible – as a Catholic, which is what he was. He was a human being. The degradation and display of his fresh corpse were horrible; but there is a danger of repeating it with a po face and feigned serious intent.

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  1. >The last English King – indeed the only English King of all England – was Harold Godwinson.

    I think Aethelstan was the first king of all England.

    But the Anglo Saxon Kings did remain a powerful memory in England. The parliamentarians in the Civil War believed they had overthrown the Norman Yoke. The founding fathers in the US believed that their constitution was a remaking of the Anglo Saxon Constitution and their first warship was named Alfred. The Chartists wanted a return to the more open, democratic ideals of Alfred and Ethelflaed’s kingdom. A lot of Victorian and Edwardian painters celebrated portraits of Anglo Saxon kings. I can remember a pamphlet in the 1970’s demanding a return to the “Anglo Saxon Constitution.”

  2. And what is the next thing I see:

    After Richard III, archaeologists set their sights on Alfred the Great

    Following the discovery of Richard III’s skeleton under a Leicester car park, archaeologists are now turning their attentions to locating another lost king, Alfred the Great.

  3. Clark

    I snaffled the ATOS one off a Guardian comment thread. Rather good I thought. I came up with the winter of our disinterment myself, but presumably along with thousands of other people. I hadn’t looked through the Amelia Hill thread lately. It seems strangely besieged by trolls – I can’t believe they are wheeling out the “Why don’t you criticise Russia and Iran” rubbish again.

  4. Richard Gadsden

    5 Feb, 2013 - 7:56 am

    George I, not George III.

  5. Saw the programme on C4 last night…facinating !

  6. doug scorgie

    5 Feb, 2013 - 8:36 am

    The British Monarchy is absolutely essential to the powerful, unelected, unaccountable elite that really run this country behind closed doors.

    Recent disclosures that the Queen and Prince Charles are consulted on matters of parliament and can veto the introduction of proposed legislation show that we do indeed have a shadow government with the royals as standard-bearers.

    Democracy is ok it seems as long as it produces the “right” result and doesn’t adversely affect the power and interests of our anonymous elite.

    The following extracts are from Jonathan Freedland ,The Guardian, Wednesday 15 March 2006 .

    “As Peter Wright confirmed in his book Spycatcher, [Harold] Wilson was the victim of a protracted, illegal campaign of destabilisation by a rogue element in the security services.”

    “Retired intelligence officers gathered with military brass and plotted a coup d’état. They would seize Heathrow airport, the BBC and Buckingham Palace. Lord Mountbatten would be the strongman, acting as interim prime minister. The Queen would read a statement urging the public to support the armed forces, because the government was no longer able to keep order.”

    “[There is] archive footage of troop manoeuvres at Heathrow, billed as a routine exercise but about which Wilson was never informed – and which he interpreted as a show of strength, a warning, even a rehearsal for a coup.”

    “… officially it never happened: a 1987 inquiry under Margaret Thatcher concluded the allegations were false, implying that the fading Wilson had descended into paranoia.”

    We now know it did happen.

    We are ‘allowed’, it seems, to have democracy provided certain lines are not crossed by the elected government.

    The monarchy should be abolished but I fear there are some very dangerous actors behind the scenes that would not allow that to happen.

  7. doug scorgie: “We are ‘allowed’, it seems, to have democracy provided certain lines are not crossed by the elected government.”

    Yes, and a very effective system it is, too. It keeps public discontent to a minimum and doesn’t arouse public suspicion. Far more efficient than outright dictatorship. Why squeeze sand? It’ll only start slipping through your fingers.

  8. On topic insofar as Richard III is mentioned in the opening sentence here from Nigella’s bruv.

    Dominic Lawson
    Monday 4 February 2013

    Chris Huhne’s downfall is another example of the amazing risks a politician will take
    People who choose a career of perpetual uncertainty are liable to behave crazily. Just look at Archer, Aitken, Crossman, Phillips, Bevan…

    PS Lawson’s journalisitic pathway… FT>Spectator>Sunday Torygraph>Independent and Sunday Times

    PPS I heard that some radio presenter has referred to Richard as the ‘Richard One hundred and eleven’.

    PPPS If I mention Craig’s reference to P Harry, the trolls might descend here. Otherwise I can’t think they will have anything to say about a dead monarch five centuries distant.

  9. Of fires and frying pans.

    We did once get rid of the monarchy, but it was replaced by Utopian proto-socialists, who could only see the faults in the natural human condition. The people elected the restoration, not so much due to the virtues of monarchy, but because their traditions had been subverted by the radical alternatives of the Puritans.

  10. I thought the skull looked more like that of Yorick than of Richard III but the DNA has proved me wrong?

    O/T. Modesty has no home where human rights’ abuses are concerned. The last British internee at Guantanamo Bay is Shaker Aamer. He has been there for a decade without charge. My disgust is beyond description.

  11. “had those evil Stanleys not turned on Richard at Bosworth and put their miserable Welsh accountant on the throne”
    I’d happily argue that the miserable Welsh accountant turned out to be one of the better monarchs. Not that there’s strong competition, but he was notably less of a war-monger or pompous twit than his alleged forebears or progeny.

  12. While I am absolutely against our military presence in Afghanistan, and it is true that he is being kept mostly out of harm’s way, and whatever the rights and wrongs of the conflict (have I qualified this enough?), at least Prince Harry is there representing the British elite, doing the dirty work and facing the reality on the ground, unlike the politicians who, along with their sons and daughters, are kept safely away from the horrors of what they started. Killing may at present be as trivial to him as a video game, but he will know of the mental anguish that service personel experience first-hand, and may well it experience it himself. That is far more than can be said for the likes of Blair and Cameron. If we are going to have these wars, then I would like to see far more of our elites participating in them, as they once did.

  13. Well, we in Germany have left at least that monarchy stuff behind us. Yet our public (!) channels use to cover foreign royal weddings etc. over at least six hours or so…
    But honestly, Craig, I couldn’t agree more on the view on monarchy and the current queen you expressed in the Orangemen!

  14. John Edwards

    5 Feb, 2013 - 11:33 am

    As it happens I’ve just finished reading Josephine Tey’s novel “A Daughter of Time” which makes a rather convincing case that Richard was not only the rightful King and quite a good one but that Henry Tudor as a usurper went on to murder everyone in front of him in the line of succession including the Princes in the Tower.

    The lesson from the construction of the faked Tudor version of history, Shakespeare included, is never believe everything you are told, then or now.

  15. Henry wouldn’t have had the opportunity to murder the princes until after he became king in 1485 which was two years after they disappeared. Tey would need to establish where they were during those two intervening years and why Richard didn’t produce them to quash rumours that were circulating as early as 1483.

  16. “makes a rather convincing case that Richard was not only the rightful King and quite a good one”
    He may have been the rightful monarch, and not for moment will I suggest that Tudor historians have been fair to him, but the idea Richard was a “good king” is a bit daft. Fewer than three years on the throne is nowhere near long enough to draw that sort of a conclusion.
    Unless the standard for “good king” is “better than Henry VIII”, in which case, okay.

  17. Dem bones, dem bones, dem dry bones. They are now arguing over them. York Minster claims them and wants to give him a state burial!

  18. My gut feeling is that this thread on the skeletal remains of Richard III will soon be dead an buried. So sorry to be off topic again but related to my NJP article on Shaker Aamer:

    is the most detailed catalogue of extraordinary rendition, torture and abuse yet produced. Complicit in this US abuse are the UK, Germany, Sweden and many other so-called civilised countries. Published today “Globalising Turture” is produced by Open Society Foundations and appears to be meticulously researched.

  19. It seems pretty clear that he will be reburied at Leicester Cathedral.

    The reinterment licence, granted to the University of Leicester by the Ministry of Justice, confirms that the king’s remains will stay in Leicester, and in due course be reinterred at Leicester Cathedral.

    The terms of the reinterment licence state: “The remains shall, no later than August 31, 2014, be deposited at Jewry Wall Museum or else be reinterred at St Martin’s Cathedral, or in a burial ground in which interments may legally take place.

    (From the City Council’s website)

  20. @Leon Well, we in Germany have left at least that monarchy stuff behind us.Thanks a bunch Leon for
    dumping them on us.Do you want them back?


  21. “…tyranny will fall only when the last king is strangled with the intestines of the last priest” (Diderot, seemingly)

    Still waiting.

    Vaguely apropos – while the vengeance of the law is poised to fall on the little liar Huhne, can we now look forward to the arrest of another lying politician? Whose lies led to the deaths of thousands, and the waste of billions of pounds?

    Not Tony Blair, obviously.

    (I lied. Tony Blair.)

  22. Excuse my ignorance but I never knew Leicester had a cathedral. You can go there for the King Richard III Trail and stand up comedy too.

  23. @ John Goss (13h04)

    “So sorry to be off topic again but related to my NJP article on Shaker Aamer:..”
    (followed by several lines of off-topic guff)

    Can’t you restrain yourself even for one thread? You’re like a bloody dog who has to cock his leg at every lamppost.

  24. Oh good. Mammon gets a look in too.
    Thursday 28 February

    The State We Are In: Mr Micawber and the Challenges of Debt
    A Guild of St Martin Lecture
    Maurice Thompson, Head of UK Operations at Citigroup and Patron of the Guild of St Martin, leads discussion on current banking issues and their effect on Leicestershire.
    Booking essential for non-members. For information or to book places, email Elizabeth Amias

  25. Anyone who considers details of extraordinary rendition and torture to be “guff” is almost certainly on the wrong blog.

  26. @ Mary (09h10 today):

    “Chris Huhne’s downfall is another example of the amazing risks a politican will take. People who choose a career of perpetual uncertainty are liable to behave crazily.Just look at Archer, Aitken, Crossman, Phillips, Bevan…”

    I would tend to agree with that, but some of the examples you give – those of Crossman, Phillips and Bevan – are not pertinent.

    Crossman, Phillips and Bevan sued The Spectator in 1957 for alleging that they had got roaring drunk while attending the congress of the Italian Socialist Party in Venice in the February of that year. They won and were awarded damages. Year later – in the 1970s – it emerged that they had indeed been roaring drunk and that at least one of them had therefore committed perjury at the trial.

    It is, however, an invalid example, because no political career was brought to an inglorious end after the truth came out….if for no other reason than that they were all dead by then.

    A better example might have been the case of that Welsh Secretary (was it Ron Davies?) who had to resign after a “moment of madness” on Hampstead Heath or wherever. Except now I think about it, hasn’t he been rehabilitated?

  27. “guff” – agreed, perhaps not the right word (I was trying to convey the idea that this is somewhat of an obsession for the poster and has been said before a thousand times).

  28. Girl, you thought she was a man, but she was a (chocolate chip) muffin!

  29. @ John Goss

    Thanks for those links, John. That’s a really angry article you’ve written there. Well done! It’s bloody excellent.

  30. Thanks Arbed.

    Habbakuk thanks. Of all the people who comment on here, to have pissed you off has really made my day.

  31. lol @ John Goss 2.33pm

  32. doug scorgie

    5 Feb, 2013 - 3:06 pm

    5 Feb, 2013 – 10:23 am

    “Killing may at present be as trivial to him [Prince Harry] as a video game, but he will know of the mental anguish that service personal experience first-hand, and may well it experience it himself.”

    I’m sorry Giles but this is complete bollocks. How can he know of the mental anguish that service personal experience first-hand? Has he seen any bullet riddled bodies; decapitated women and children; blood soaked streets and buildings? Has he heard the screams of people dying in agony; the wailing of the relatives of the innocent victims bombed by some prat in a helicopter?

    Do you not see that it is all part of elite propaganda?

    Do you think that Harry is a real helicopter pilot?

    When Harry is visiting clubs in Knightsbridge he is surrounded by armed special branch and MI5 bodyguards. Does he not have bodyguards while in Afghanistan?

  33. resident dissident

    5 Feb, 2013 - 3:26 pm

    No, the last English king was George VI, unless you want to start using BNP type definitions for defining nationality. Being permanently resident and committed to a country is enough. Heaven forbid if Craig’s nationalist chums were to start defining who is or isn’t Scottish on such a basis – I wouldn’t rate the chances of a Norfolk boy with Corsican ancestors (this is presumably where the tendency to feuding/omerta comes in) too highly. That said I do tend to agree monarchy is all bollocks just like much nationalism.

  34. “Monarchy is bollocks”
    Hear, hear (but it’s also costing everyone a fortune and is acutely embarrassing into the bargain). Not sure what to do about that, just wish that secret rendition to justify the Civil List expenditure would enter into the public domain/discussion someday soon.

    Loving the ‘a spade is a spade’ attitude, still consistently wonderful.
    Thank you.

  35. Jimmy Giro @9.19

    ‘We did once get rid of the monarchy but it was replaced by utopian proto-socialists’.

    No, unfortunately the monarchy was replaced by Cromwell and his grandees who argued that only land and property owners should rule and have a say in government.

    It was the levellers who were the proto-socialists. Thomas Rainsborough, a former colonel in the parliamentarian army and a leveller, asked why they had fought to depose the monarchy only to see the old law restored in which ordinary people had no voice at all.

    Things have improved slightly – we ‘ordinary people’ have a voice but still don’t have much power over government decisions for which don’t forget they have no mandate.

    (apologies – only just had time to respond to Jimmy Giro’s comment)

  36. I’m thinking of opening a personal “Doug Scorgie” sub-file. The only thing that makes me hesitate is the difficulty I’m likely to have when I try to work out whether to put his posts into the ‘arcane’,’inane’ or ‘insane’ folders.

    Anyway for today the following gems.

    “Does he {ie, Prince Harry} not have bodyguards while in Afghanistan?” (15h06)

    Yes, especially when flying his helicopter on combat missions. Their job is to shoot down any ground-to-air missiles with their pistols.

    Quoting with approval from Jonathan Freedland at 08h26 :

    “As Peter Wright confirmed in his book Spycatcher, {Harold} Wilson was the victim of a protracted, illegal campaign of destabilisation by a rogue element in the security services.”

    Exactly : a rogue element in the security services, not the security services as such.

    And : “We now know it did happen”.

    Errr, well, no, it didn’t happen, actually. No fighting on the street, no troops on the street, no Royal proclamation, no overthrown government, but a general election as per usual.

  37. @ John Goss : if the thought that you’ve pissed me off makes your day, then it sounds as if your days are sad ones.

    Look around you, man, real life is everywhere! La vita e’ bella! Find the song on YouTube and sing along!

  38. I guess Lord Haba Ha will tell us this BBC Documentary “The Plot Against Harold Wilson” doesn’t exist either

    Watch it all the way through but troops on the streets at 1:06 mins in which of course didn’t happen according to Haha Ha.

  39. Have surprised even myself by enjoying following the story. Living as I do in Touraine the history of the Plantagenets has always fascinated a bit – even down to their family name; it is said that the founder of the family, Geoffrey, liked to pick bits of broom (genet) and put them in his hat! Whether true or not it’s rather a pretty story.

    Given the horrifically violent death that he suffered and his ignomonious treatment post-mortem it would seem to be nothing less than just that he be laid to rest with dignity, according to his beliefs … and left in peace.

  40. And we thought the brutal treatment of Ghaddaffi was all down to those savages, when in reality it was learned from our police trainers, who by some fluke of history, must have read it in some medieval manual on how to subdue bastard murderous kings with a poker up their backside.

    Even torture has tradition here, great article John Goss, thanks, that it had such impact on our son of a jester was a bonus.

    Its all royal terminal guff. I’m sure Leicester City council will try their utmost to get a car park re-designated into a museum in record time before the summer tourists are due.

    As for standing up for Harry, the soldier, son of a serving soldier, good on you Giles for pointing out that Craig’s thread here has made such a pertinent point about Royalty.

  41. @ Anon (16h01) :

    Troops man “Green Goddesses” during the firemens strike, but unfortunately no coup d’état.

    Troops ring Heathrow during teror plot scare, but still no coup d’état

    Troops on the streets also during the 2012 Olympics, dear boy, but STILL no coup d’état, so sorry to have spoiled the plot.

    ( a “rogue element” in the security services, a “rogue element”. Got it? A “rogue element”.)

    Shall I stay with the military and address you in the same way as Captain Mainwaring used to address the young lad…?

  42. doug scorgie

    5 Feb, 2013 - 4:15 pm


    I post to you on this thread because you seem to be avoiding answering a question I asked you on the previous thread.

    4 Feb, 2013 – 9:45 pm
    @ Clark and Doug Scorgie : of course they do! Where have you been for the last 20 years – hibernating?? Don’t you read political memoirs and diaries???

    I replied:
    No I don’t, but please direct me to those that refer specifically to the use of behavioural psychologists and I will.

    Why have you not directed me (and others) to the political memoirs and diaries you refer to? Is it because you don’t know of any and you just made it up?

    I ask again direct me to the books you refer to.

    I call your bluff.

  43. Hahha,

    You’ve watched the 90 min documentary already (in just a few minutes) and reached a conclusion. Your skills truly astound me. Somehow I doubt you’ve watched it before.

    So it’s normal for the British army to take to the streets (and it wasn’t just Heathrow – that was just the headliner) without informing the government? Get real.

  44. HaHah,

    Let’s just assume for a moment that all the plotting was by “rogue elements” who somehow had the power to occupy Heathrow Airport with tanks and go unpunished.

    Can you explain to me how you have satisfied yourself that “rogue elements” are not in such positions of high power and pulling levers behind the scenes even today?

    Do you believe that “rogue elemnts” suddenly went out of fashion? I can’t fathom why you happily accept the existence of “rogues” in the 1970s but not in the 21st century.

  45. There goes your knighthood Craig. I’m a conditional republican myself but if there has to be a monarch, he might as well be an Aussie.

  46. @ Anon

    1/. No, I haven’t watched the documentary. But you know, this so-called “coup” is hardly breaking news – it’s been talked and written about for quite a few years.

    2/. If there was a coup attempt, why didn’t the military go to Downing Street, Westminster, Whitehall, the BBC?

  47. @ anyone who’s interested : my reply to Doug Scorgie is on the previous thread to which he refers.

  48. Re monarchy :

    There are a few republicans around, I see. Which justifies the following (on-topic) questions:

    1/. do you believe that a Head of State (largely ceremonial as in the UK, Scandinavia, Spain, Belgium, Netherlands, etc) is necessary or desirable?

    2/. if so, how should he or she be chosen?

  49. An Iraqi child asks Tony Blair and George Bush: Are you happy now?
    Published on 3 Feb 2013

    An Iraqi Child. Written by Heathcote Williams. Narration and montage by Alan Cox. “Who did this to me?” asks an Iraqi child, drawing a picture of bombers, despite his arm and fingers having been amputated. “Why didn’t they think of the people below, when they sent their cruel planes? … Are they happy now?”

    Such a brilliant poet and the video and the narration are excellent too.

    Anthony Charles Lynton Blair
    George Walker Bush
    Alastair John Campbell

  50. answer 1/. No
    2/. inconsequential

    Its snowing massive flakes
    as big as dinner plates

  51. HaHa,

    If you read accounts by others around at the time I think you will find the security services did indeed arrive at other places of interest. Tanks weren’t needed at the BBC. John Simpson further claimed that plotters included major media owners etc. Wilson himself believed very senior figures at the BBC were in on the plot.

    But seriously if you read Simpson’s books you’d realise exactly why the State does not need tanks to control the BBC. His book’s are a lot more revealing than his broadcasts.

  52. HaHa,

    Picture yourself in the BBC Newsrooms as reports of tanks at Heathrow start to pour in. Political correspondents can’t get anything out of the government other than shock. What do they broadcast? What did they broadcast? Protocols dear boy.

  53. @ Anon – OK, forget the BBC for the sake of progressing. A coup d’état normally seeks to take over the organs of government. These “accounts by others around zt the time” – who are these others and which places did they mention? Were Downing Street, Westminster and Whitehall mentioned?
    BTW – you talk about the security services – was that a slip for the military? I thought the other posters were talking about a miltary coup?

  54. @ Nevermind : if you believe that a Head of State is neither necessary nor desirable, who do you think should represent the state? Eg (but this list is not exhaustive) : in whose name should legislation be enacted, and by whom? Who represents the British state (not the government) vis-à-vis the outside world? Who interacts with other Heads of State? Who arbitrates or facilitates the political process say in cases when the issue of one of forming a goverment?

  55. Off topic. Sorry. Angry.

    Hand wringing by some MPs here on this sad case. What an indictment of the pocket pols we have representing us. Burstow who, after becoming an MP, became a junior minister responsible for care services. He assisted Lansley in the destruction of the NHS as we know it. Blunt voted for their Health and Social Act 2012. Look at the Safeguarding outfit packed with jobsworths who spend their time going from meeting to meeting.

    Did nobody think to ask what was going to happen to the clients (as they are referred to) after the Border Agency heavies’ visit which probably involved rounding up some very badly paid illegal immigrants?

    Poor old lady. If elderly care still remained in local authority hands and had not the carers in this case been provided by a private agency, ie outsourced to a for-profit private outfit, she would still be alive. She should have been receiving care in a well run nursing home.

    Surrey woman left without care dies in hospital

  56. Mary at 5.28

    It is a touching video. I wrote on the same theme when the allied forces started bombing Iraq.

    “Tony’s child
    (Ali Ismail Abbas)
    Tony’s child is 12 years old, like any kid that’s bad,
    he used to do mischievous things, he’d taunt his mum and dad.
    He does not do that any more and even if he did
    he could not hurt his parents, for they’re already dead.
    Tony’s child is not quite dead instead he lies all day in bed.

    He lies all day in bed and cries, he knows how bad
    he was. He just wants to apologise, say sorry mum and dad.
    But it’s too late, he had his chance before the two were gone,
    and now they’re gone, he lingers on,
    he lies all day in bed and cries, and still cries on.

    Tony’s child liked volleyball but now he has no arms,
    he cannot show the skills he learnt, all those magic charms.
    No arms to touch, to love, to feel, he has no arms to kill,
    it might be better if he’d died and who knows perhaps he will;
    he lies all day in bed and cries for Tony’s child is very ill.

    The bomb that killed his family and took his arms away,
    scorched his growing torso, and God I only pray
    this kind of thing will soon become a feature of the past
    when men were seen as savages who used to maim and blast
    little children with their bombs – and Tony’s child’s the last.”

    Ali Ismail Abbas survived though at the time it was touch and go whether he would. Now an adult his life was changed forever. I have not, and cannot, forgive Tony Blair for what he did to Ali Ismail and all the other innocent children killed and maimed in our conflicts.

  57. Last post before I go out for dinner and take in a movie. And at the risk of making some of you miserable, it’s about good news!

    David Cameron and his govt. get a lot of stick on this blog. So I’m sure others here will want to join me in expressing pleasure and admiration for the way in which he pioneered and saw through to a successful conclusion the bill giving the freedom to gays and lesbians to marry. He showed condsiderable courage, determination and humanity and his action (and that of Parliament for voting through the bill)deserves recognition.

    I’m sure I speak for all who regularly post here, all of whom are, I’m sure, very much for gay and lesbian rights.

    So let’s be hearing you!

  58. Jim McDonald

    5 Feb, 2013 - 7:51 pm

    @ Doug Scorgie
    5 Feb, 2013 – 8:36 am
    I know it’s fiction but have you ever seen ” A very British Coup’ with Ray McAnally from the eighties? ….. Says it all….. You can get some of it on youtube from 4on demand

  59. doug scorgie

    5 Feb, 2013 - 9:15 pm

    5 Feb, 2013 – 3:43 pm

    You’re struggling a bit now I see.

    If you want to de-construct what I have to say do it in a logical manner and include all the relevant points.

    You seem to be under the impression that our male heirs to the throne are intellectually robust enough to become helicopter pilots; Prince William, Prince Andrew, Prince Harry and the most ridiculous one; Prince Charles.

    You’re having a laugh surely.

    Prince Charles for example scraped through with two A levels, History and French: grades B and C. On the basis of these exemplary qualifications he secured a place at Cambridge University.

    Then he became (wait for it…) a helicopter pilot.

    Do you not recognize bullshit when you see it?

    The coup d’ etat didn’t take place, Harold Wilson resigned unexpectedly, but the conspiracy to action the coup did take place and it is on public record.

    You are tiresome Habbabkuk.

  60. Some showboating coming up soon from Obama. Note Palestine is not mentioned in this BBC report. They do include the term Palestinian Authority but we know who and what they represent, certainly not the Palestinian people themselves under the Israeli heel.

    5 February 2013 Last updated at 20:53
    Obama to make first visit to Israel as president

    The words Occupied and Occupation do not feature.

  61. doug scorgie

    5 Feb, 2013 - 9:24 pm

    5 Feb, 2013 – 7:45 pm

    “Last post before I go out for dinner and take in a movie”

    On your own again?

  62. doug scorgie

    5 Feb, 2013 - 9:32 pm

    Jim McDonald
    5 Feb, 2013 – 7:51 pm

    “I know it’s fiction but have you ever seen ” A very British Coup’ with Ray McAnally from the eighties.”

    Yes Jim I have read it and seen it; it is food for thought.

  63. Whilst the gay marriage debate and vote (where more Tories voted against that those who voted for) was happening, Agent Cameron was biding his time with Biden. He has has such a busy time lately – Algeria, Libya, Liberia, meeting at Chequers and today Biden. Gosh, what a tyro!

    ‘Britain, Afghanistan and Pakistan have rubber-stamped the opening of an official office for the Taleban that will form a contact point for negotiations with the militant network.

    After meeting in Chequers, President Karzai of Afghanistan, President Zardari of Pakistan and David Cameron backed the opening of the office in Qatar in a move that No 10 described as a necessary measure to bring peace to Afghanistan by the summer.

    However, political analysts warned that such a goal was unduly ambitious, given that there were no representatives from either the US or the Taleban at yesterday’s meeting.

    The faltering Afghan peace…. LOL

    Sorry that’s all I can copy without giving some shekels to Murdoch.

  64. Q. Isn’t ‘going to take in a movie’ a very American way of saying one is going to see a film?

  65. Monarchy isn’t just bollocks, it’s a confidence trick by frauds. The Queen has personally claimed and received eight million euros in farming subsidies since 2000, and all the other “royals” have had large sums also. Mr Charles Windsor makes huge profits from his estates, claims vast EU subsidies for his estates, sets all the running of the estates against tax, pays an artificially low tax rate agreed with the government, then on top of that lives an exorbitant lifestyle travelling by private jet and commuting between palaces all paid for out of the civil list. All this while benefits for the poor and the sick are slashed, driving them into poverty while calling them scroungers. I’m not into revolution, but I am into prosecuting fraudulent Windsors under the rule of law. The words “God save the Queen” literally mean “Imaginary Friend protect our Confidence Trickster from prosecution”.

  66. The No-Fly list has been increasingly used on American citizens while they’re out of the country, effectively exiling them

    ACLU estimated the list to have grown to over 1,000,000 names and to be continually expanding

  67. doug scorgie

    5 Feb, 2013 - 10:25 pm

    5 Feb, 2013 – 5:18 pm

    @ anyone who’s interested : my reply to Doug Scorgie is on the previous thread to which he refers.

    – why should I direct you towards works which you proudly claim not to read? And since when have you lot ever told me where your sources are when I’ve asked? Get reading yourself, and “seek and ye shall find”.

    Habbabkuk: what a pathetic answer.

    You have never, as far as I know, asked for sources from posters here. They are usually provided as a matter of course.

    You are the one that fails to provide sources for the bullshit you peddle here.

    I repeat; which books can you direct me to that confirm political parties have been using behavioural psychologists to sell their policies for (as you say) the last 20 years?

    You have no answer do you?

  68. Doug (21h15) – what on earth are you rabbiting on about?

    A levels, Prince Charles becoming a helicopter pilot, intellectual robustness, no coup d’état but a conspiracy…the mind boggles.

    And there I was, thinking you’d just been venting about Killer Prince Harry!

    Are you tired and emotional this evening?

  69. How nice.

    Hope it doesn’t get too warm for them there while we shiver and the food banks proliferate.

    This is their friend who loans them his villa. What a waste of a seven year medical training.

    Mark Cecil Jabre Capital Partners
    Mark Cecil is a founding partner at Jabre Capital Partners, a $5 billion investment manager based in Geneva.
    Mark began his career in finance in 1986 working alongside Philippe Jabre at BAii (London) a subsidiary of BNP Paribas. In 1997 he moved with Philippe to GLG Partners and in 2007 moved to help establish Jabre Capital Partners.
    Mark qualified as a medical doctor from St Thomas’ Hospital Medical School in 1982 and was awarded an MBA from Insead Business School, Fontainebleau, in 1985.

    Harrow not Eton this time.

  70. In 1992 the present monarch once passed by me, so close I could have reached out and touched the very royal train itself. Entirely alone on a drafty westbound platform at Paisley Gilmour St. Station I stood up in anticipation as I mistakenly thought it was the whatever o-clock to Gourock drawing in. This apparition in brown, with curtained windows glided up to the platform and inexplicably stopped there for at least a minute before moving off, carrying on to its eventual destination, which I later guessed was Ferguson’s Shipyard at Port Glasgow, alongside which a temporary wooden platform had sprung up for the benighted one to alight. In a republican show of dissent, I resumed my recumbent pose on my seat, and purposefully looked up the line, nonchalantly ignoring this monstrosity before me, feigning complete ignorance or indifference, unaware even if a curious queen might have parted the curtains a crack and fixed a beady eye on one of her handsome young subjects approvingly.

    She’s so down to earth really, riding on trains and everything.

  71. Habby is back carrying his kebab and a bottle of Buckfast, hey, he’s here to stay, be nice to him.

    We decide who is negotiating with Brussels and we’ll negotiate with Brussels a long time before we take notice of nuclear armed rogue’s in the ME.

    Neo colonial mindset full of torture, rape and carnage is just not good enough any more for the British public, so, who do you think agrees with your anachronistic phlegms and how long do you think before people realise that they are now being playe off against each other, to divert the heat from the scum, currently making this country their chosen fraud base and those who feed on their immense fraudulent riches.

    But then, you’ve never been real, sporned by a migrating conjurer, your wondrous life passes by reality like the tube passes Bank station.

  72. @ Nevermind (23h23)

    did you mean “spawned” rather than “sporned”?

  73. Attila the Hun’s grave is still to be found. Legends say with a coffin of gold and silver…

  74. “Look around you, man, real life is everywhere! La vita e’ bella! Find the song on YouTube and sing along!”

    Only Zionism mentality throws that little string into the camp – as a last resort.

    Beautiful Mary – Bravo Heathcote! Some Iraqi children’s pictures can be seen here: –

  75. @ Mark Golding – well, it is. In the real world that is. Unless you’re determined to see only the evil and the ugly.

    That’s why I often think that Craig Murray doesn’t deserve you lot (I mean a good nmuber of the regular posters) : I get the impression that although a severe critic of many aspects of life he still enjoys it, and enjoys it a lot.

    And he’s not blinded by hate either. Look at Mark Golding’s post above : to say that (real)life is good is to have a “Zionist mentality” and to be “a last resort””. It’s just pathetic.

  76. BTW, I note the big silence re. the gay and lesbian marriage bill which was voted yesterday. A further step towards equality, which should be welcomed – loudly – by the eminences on this blog. Where’s Mary with her links? Nevermind? Doug Scorgie? Villager? Komodo? I say : three cheers for David Cameron on this one!

  77. Cryptonym Now in my seventh decade I am proud to say that I have been in the presence of Mrs Windsor or any of her brood nor have I touched the hems of any of their garments! :)

    Nevermind. Perhaps we will get a review of the ‘movie’ later – Ms Bigelow’s Zero Dark Thirty and the Navy Seals or maybe Mr Affleck’s CIA thriller Argo.

    Ref incinerators, Surrey CC are rowing back on the design of the one given planning permission in Shepperton.

  78. Mary : good to see you’re up. How about a word of congratulation for Mr Cameron then? You are in favour of gay marriage, I trust?

  79. Monsieur Hollande seems to think he has had hundreds of ‘Islamist militants’ killed in Mali. Were they all wearing labels saying ‘I am an Islamist militant’ or were many of the dead just ordinary men, women and children and how many have you had wounded Monsieur Hollande?

    There are nine mentions each of the words ‘Islamist’ and ‘militant’ in this propaganda report.

    France: Hundreds of Islamist militants killed in Mali

    PS Habbabkuk I am always up before you just as I am up to your antics here.

  80. @Habba.

    Regarding Gay marriage, for most here is irrelevant.

    The social equalitys more concerning are greed and laziness, and the lack of Christian virrues for example “do unto others.”.

    But hey what are Christion valuea now.
    Ask Blair and Bush.

    Oh they are nor really in charge of their will.

  81. Habitual Babbling again? Are you still suffering from the effects of your Mcdonalds burger then? And what sort of movie did you “take-in”?

  82. Coucou, for awhile you had me believing you were reforming but, you are confirming that most men, except those with supple minds are incapable of changing. As a professedly good Catholic we know what your views on the subject are. Lets just expose you as a vacant, pathological, compulsive obsessive impostor.

  83. doug scorgie

    6 Feb, 2013 - 10:08 am

    6 Feb, 2013 – 8:38 am

    It is not Mr. Cameron that is to be congratulated but firstly the Labour party then the LibDems and belatedly the coalition. But it is the House of Commons that is to be congratulated for approving the Bill.

    During the 2010 leadership election of the Labour Party, all candidates said they were in favour of same-sex marriage.

    On 21 September 2010, the Liberal Democrats publicly endorsed same-sex marriage by approving a motion called “Equal Marriage in the United Kingdom” at a conference in Liverpool .

    The Conservative-Liberal Democrat coalition government initiated a consultation in 2011 on whether to allow both religious ceremonies and civil marriage for same-sex couples,[3] and said it would introduce a same-sex civil marriage bill [note civil marriage] by the next general election.

    In 2012, the coalition government announced its support for same-sex marriages to be conducted in a place of worship, provided the religious body approved.

    PS: Have you come up with those books I asked about?

  84. @ Doug Scorgie : Yes, exactly, it was the Coalition, led by David Cameron, which introduced the bill.

    You can’t bring yourself to say a good word about him, can you. You old misery!

    @ Mary : I think that Resident Dissident said all that needs to be said about you. Dishes it out by the bucketfull, but very thin-skinned when it comes to taking it.

  85. John Goss. I did acknowledge your beautiful and moving poem about Ali Abbas above but put it on the previous thread by mistake. Warning the first link opens with that shocking photo of Ali’s charred arms and burnt torso.

  86. Habitual Babbler Kuku

    Since you didn’t respond to my remarks above i take it that your Big Silence confirms that you stand exposed “as a vacant, pathological, compulsive obsessive impostor.”

    Not a good idea to wear your religion on your sleeve.

    As for Mary, i see you have your new-found-friend Res Diss that you are trying to instigate. Why do you insist on behaving like a dolt?

    its this compulsive obsessive thing you have isn’t it? Confession time, good catholic?

  87. H 10.18am and there’s another message here which the Beatles once sang

  88. Why do the BBC put the word abuse in inverted commas? And when is anybody in this or any of the other inquiries going to go on trial ?

    6 February 2013

    Two arrests in 1980s guest house ‘abuse’ inquiry
    Police have made a fresh appeal for information about the allegations

    Police investigating allegations of child abuse at a south-west London guest house in the early 1980s have arrested two men.

    The Operation Fernbridge inquiry is looking at claims that senior political figures and others sexually abused boys at the Elm Guest House in Barnes.

    Officers held a 66-year-old in Norfolk and a 70-year-old in East Sussex, the first arrests in the investigation.

    Police began the probe after receiving information from Labour MP Tom Watson.

    Scotland Yard said the allegations are not connected with current residents of the address.

    It is also investigating links between the guest house and a nearby children’s care-home.

    Commander Peter Spindler, head of the Metropolitan Police’s Specialist Crime Investigations unit, said the “complex multi-agency investigation” was supported by the NSPCC charity, the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre and Richmond Social Services.

    He said anyone affected by, or has information about, activity in the early 1980s at the Elm Guest House, or the Grafton Close care home in Barnes, should contact the NSPCC or police.

  89. Habitual Babbler,

    Still waiting for an answer to my post above:

    “Coucou, for awhile you had me believing you were reforming but, you are confirming that most men, except those with supple minds are incapable of changing. As a professedly good Catholic we know what your views on the subject are. Lets just expose you as a vacant, pathological, compulsive obsessive impostor.”

  90. These Norfolk MP’s voted against the majority of those party politicians.

    Richard Bacon, South Norfolk MP

    Therese Coffey, Suffolk Coastal MP

    Peter Aldous, Waveney MP

    Henry Bellingham, North West Norfolk

    George Freeman, Mid Norfolk MP

    That said, marriage is inconvenient to those partners who do not work and are older.
    Whilst a single person, not in pensionable age yet, but over 60, will be eligible for pension credits, winter fuel allowance, help with their electricity bills and free bus travel, those who are married of the same age and with a spouse still working will get nothing whatsoever.

    I have yet to find out the benefits of the bill, bar the hot air that is heating the lower parts of the House, the gallery, were interested members of the public are directed to, is much colder.

  91. doug scorgie

    6 Feb, 2013 - 11:56 am

    Israel wants EU terror tag for Hezbollah

    US/Israel shenanigans ?

    New York Times:

    “With help from the United States and Israel, investigators here broke the case — and linked it to Hezbollah — using a tip from a secret source and some old-fashioned detective work, tracing the printer that had produced two forged licenses back to Lebanon.

    “On Tuesday, Bulgaria’s interior minister, Tsvetan Tsvetanov, announced that two of the people behind the July 18 bombing, which killed five Israeli tourists, a Bulgarian bus driver and the bomber, were believed to be members of the military wing of Hezbollah.

    “We have followed their entire activities in Australia and Canada, so we have information about financing and their membership in Hezbollah,” Mr. Tsvetanov said at a news conference.

    “Hezbollah has denied responsibility for the bombing. “

    Netanyahu says:

    “This is yet a further corroboration of what we have already known, that Hezbollah and its Iranian patrons are orchestrating a worldwide campaign of terror that is spanning countries and continents.”

    From recent events regarding Syria and Lebanon and the fact everyone knows Israel wants another Lebanon war, after their defeat at the hands of Hezbollah in 2006. It seems likely that the timing of the results of the Bulgarian investigation (carried out by Israel and the US) and the demand by Netanyahu for the world to declare Hezbollah a “terrorist entity” are linked and help manufacture a case for an upcoming attack on Lebanon.

  92. Mary at 10.22 am. Thanks for your kind comment and the link to David Halpin’s condemnation of Tony Blair for what he did to Ali Abbas and so many other children. How does Blair sleep at night?

  93. In case anyone is interested in last night’s vote, which like microchips for dogs, is a great diversion for Agent Cameron and his cohort to take our attention off his major crimes in Mali and Syria, let alone the paedophilia enquiries which are going nowhere and the continuing crimes of the bankers who dress up as armed highwaymen.

  94. “In case anyone is interested in last night’s vote, which like microchips for dogs, is a great diversion for Agent Cameron and his cohort to take our attention off his major crimes in Mali and Syria, let alone the paedophilia enquiries which are going nowhere and the continuing crimes of the bankers who dress up as armed highwaymen.”

    Exactly Habbabkuk’s not so subtle agenda.

    @John Goss, I also add my thanks & appreciation for your moving poem.

  95. Blackadder………

    “Nice to see that today’s Prince Harry retains the tradition of remorseless homicide though.” and bastardry (?)

  96. ~*~*~*~*~*~*~TOP TIP ~*~*~*~*~*~*~

    Is there too much clutter and and annoying distraction in your browser? Do you struggle to catch up on your favourite blog?
    Simple! Just skip any thread by or addressed to Habbabkuk.
    Instantly your blog time becomes informative and productive again, just like it used to be.
    Don’t delay, do it NOW! You know it makes sense.

    ~*~*~*~*~*~*~TOP TIP ~*~*~*~*~*~*~

  97. בתחבולות תעשה לך מלחמה – my guidance is towards Syria; she cannot capitulate to the terrorists; doing so would render another 100yrs dark age of elitist imperium. I have revealed at some risk a devious game plan to blitz Syria in the preceding thread as a precursor to Iran’s holocaust by Zionism delusion – באין תחבולות יפול עם, ותשועה ברוב יועץ.

  98. 30 people killed by the Malian army who seem to follow their French Guardians around and are killing those who they think have supported the Tuareg’s or so called ‘Islamist’s’. Mali’s population is 90% Muslim and this is why the West is fighting there, to discourage anyone joining in or starting to ask awkward questions as to Gold Gas Oil and Uranium resources leaving the country for not very much in return.

  99. Keith Crosby

    6 Feb, 2013 - 2:14 pm

    Actually, England has been a republic since 1688 and Britain has been since 1707. If you look at the Coronation Oath Act 1688 it’s clearly an employment contract isued by Parliament. Notice also that as well as appointing who they pleased after “Queen” Anne dies, they sacked Eddie the fascist in the 1930’s. That doesn’t happen to monarchs, only employees.

  100. doug scorgie

    6 Feb, 2013 - 2:21 pm

    A Node
    6 Feb, 2013 – 1:34 pm

    “Just skip any thread by or addressed to Habbabkuk.
    Instantly your blog time becomes informative and productive again, just like it used to be.”

    Habbabkuk is an annoying flea but he does provide entertainment. He reacts to other poster’s comments rather than put forward any valid arguments of his own.
    He is in my view simple minded.

    An example of his modus operandi is the hounding of other posters here for not congratulating Cameron for the same sex marriage bill.

    He could have posted:

    I think Mr Cameron should be congratulated for aiding the successful passage of the bill. Had he done that he may have got reasonable responses to that view.

    Anyway I don’t mind toying with the little shit – just for fun.

  101. interview with Faisal Al Mekdad, or how to survive a totally one-sided interview.

    “Anyway I don’t mind toying with the little shit – just for fun.”

    wear gloves…

  102. We hear of issues and solutions. Tesco have a labelling issue with their Spag Bol. Findus have an issue with their frozen lasagne.

    Solution – take it off the shelves. What is happening to all this wasted food one wonders.

    Horsey. Horsey…
    Comment below Horsey Horsey Don’t You Stop, Or you’ll be in a tesco shop, your tail goes swish and your wheels go round, OMG your a quarter pound

    PS Would anyone buy a food produced by a company named Comigel?

  103. OK, witty title, but there’s nothing like a story like this to distract people. In China, people worship their ancestors. In Britain, they worship the ancestors of the royal family.

    The Elm Street paedophile abuse scandal is about to go BLAM!

    Even the, er, criminal-friendly figure Giovanni di Stefano is getting in on the act of saying there’s a big cover-up. What on earth’s that all about?

    Meanwhile in Belgium, a court will issue its decision on Marc Dutroux’s application for release later this month.

    I hope Mary Moss looks out for her personal safety.

  104. to the moderator, whoever it might be
    it is my, possibly insignificant, impression that hababba reigns supreme here like a demented monarch. Can we entirely exclude the possibility that hababa may somewhat overstretch his “intelectual firepower” or whatever he calls it and become a total wreck ready to be admitted to a mental asylum. Would it not be an act of humanity to habbabA and others to limit him to five contributions per one post? This would offer hhahababa a well deserved rest and give him more time to learn Italian.

  105. “Oil. Religion. Occupation. … A Combustible Mix.”

    Heavily redacted and illuminating e-mails between the FCO, Gould’s crowd in Israel, British Gas etc obtained after a lengthy Freedom of Information process.


  106. @ Karel

    There is a much simpler solution to the problem than burdening the moderator with more work.
    Don’t respond to him.

  107. to A Node,
    Dont you believe in humane acts? I suppose that we just have to be meek and pray that habbabas od this world will not multiply on this blog. Could we bear ten of them?

  108. doug scorgie

    6 Feb, 2013 - 3:42 pm

    6 Feb, 2013 – 2:28 pm

    “interview with Faisal Al Mekdad, or how to survive a totally one-sided interview.”

    Yes totally one-sided – even worse than the BBC!!!

  109. “Oil. Religion. Occupation. … A Combustible Mix.”

    Is Blair a BP adviser Mary?

  110. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    6 Feb, 2013 - 5:12 pm

    “Oil. Religion. Occupation. … A Combustible Mix.”

    Balsam from Gilead as an oil, would tamp down the flames.

  111. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    6 Feb, 2013 - 5:17 pm

    “There is a much simpler solution to the problem than burdening the moderator with more work.
    Don’t respond to him.”

    You are right, of course. But the talent for compelling an answer with a cudgel makes moderation a necessity.

  112. That was BG Mark, British Gas.

    ‘Among the activities highlighted by Channel Four is Mr Blair’s advocacy for the Qatari-owned telecoms company Wataniya, which was granted bandwidth rights in the West Bank. JP Morgan helped negotiate a £2bn loan for the purchase of the company in 2007. It also detailed the former Labour leader’s lobbying to develop a $6bn oil field off Gaza for which British Gas Group own operating rights. British Gas is also a major client of the US investment bank.’

    Tony Blair is unaccountable over business interests, adviser says
    Jonathan Brown
    Monday 26 September 2011

    Ref BP British Petroleum. I would imagine Blair and Sir Peter Sutherland are well known to each other. They all meet at that Davos thing and Bilderberg too for all I know. Sutherland was chairman of BP until 2009.

    All powerful all seeing all controlling
    I see him sitting astride the globe as a monstrous behemoth, metaphorically speaking.

    Cameron appointed John Browne who was the CEO of BP as one of those business czars. Browne was described by Blair as his favourite businessman! Browne resigned after admitting he had lied and had committed perjury. Lord Justice Eady (we have heard of him) decided to recommend to the Attorney General that he should not be charged.
    Browne recommended that the cap on university tuition fees should be lifted. Nice type.,_Baron_Browne_of_Madingley

  113. @ Doug Scorgie (10h08) on the gay mparriage bill:

    No, Doug, it’s the Coalition government, acting under the leadership of the Prime Minister, which is to be congratulated for this bill, with the Labour Party coming a very distant second (or even third).

    This is Doug : “During the leadership election of the Labour Party, all candidates said they were in favour of same-sex marriage”

    WOW, Dougie, that’s really impressive. But would they have had the cojones to introduce draft legislation? Memories of university tuition fees, eh (“we won’t”..and then they promptly did)?

    No, it’s hats off to the Coalition government and Mr Cameron in particular!

  114. A minority coalition that not even consulted its members on the bill never mind the electorate, and why should they, that’s British politics, a leading class of useless lawyers and establishment lackeys who lord it over the rest of us.

    This issue is guff, diverting from other more important issues and what little support they’d had from Labour for it made it successful.

    Why, if it was so important a bill, more hot air raised about it than the budget, did Cameron fail to attend the debate?

    Been at a coffee fund raiser? buying budgie smugglers?

  115. Just another ordinary, everyday, rape allegation and absolutely northing to do with anything else. Honest guv.

    “The Prime Minister, Julia Gillard, has never retracted her public (mis)statement that Assange had committed ”an illegal act”. The Swedish Prime Minister, Frederik Reinfeldt, has never retracted his public mis-statement that Assange had been charged with rape. Why not?

    Assange points out that Sweden’s is a culture of profound conformism; a population half the size of Australia’s with a language spoken (and a culture therefore scrutinised) by no one else on earth. A country that, unlike say Germany, ”never denazified” after World War II. Never pushed the reset button.

    So when the Social Minister, Goran Hagglund, publicly describes Assange as ”sick … a coward … a lowlife … a pitiful wretch”, and the Ministry for Foreign Affairs tweets ”you do not dictate the terms if you are a suspect. Get it?”, the press follow suit.

    Sweden’s largest-circulation daily, Dagens Nyheter, calls Assange ”paranoid” and a ”querulant”.

    A prominent journalist for the Swedish tabloid Aftonbladet, Martin Aagard, calls him an ”Australian pig”, linking Assange with Rupert Murdoch. ”There are many good reasons to criticise Assange. One … is that he’s a repugnant swine.”

    Is this the temperate response of a modern democracy to untested allegations of sex-without-a-condom? Can we seriously trust that the two cases are discrete?

    The Foreign Affairs Minister, Bob Carr, for years a grand jury denier, admitted recently that ”it appears … a grand jury has been established” in Richmond, Virginia, to try Assange in secret.

    What sort of government would not strenuously resist this for a citizen innocent under Australian law?

    As to the third conception, of Assange-as-wanker, I say only this. I expected to find him self-absorbed, humourless and rather vain. Instead he was warm, engaging, unpretentious, intelligent and frank. It’s not relevant, but I liked him.”

  116. “Why, if it was so important a bill, more hot air raised about it than the budget, did Cameron fail to attend the debate?”

    Because, as you say, the issue is guff. He has no interest in the matter. Who does? All civil liberty issues were fully addressed almost a decade ago with the Civil Partnerships Act.

    What’s interesting is why both Cameron and Obama are pursuing the matter so vigorously and in tandem. In Cameron’s case he has been prepared to see this non-issue cause huge ructions in his own party.

    My reading of it is that both Cameron and Obama have been put under some pressure to push through same-sex marriage legislation. Not from the general public of course but from above. The question is therefore: why are the banksters so keen on same-sex marriage?

  117. I expect you know of the young journalist Owen Jones who comes on QT and other programmes when a ‘left’ view is required. This event is more than ‘obscene’ which is how the Medialens editors describe this ‘debate’ advertised in the tweet.

    The ten of them, listed below, should just shut their mouths and respect the Iraqi dead, wounded and displaced. Hasan has some job at Huffington Post I believe and obviously came up with it.

    Owen Jones tweets: ‘Great Iraq Debate: was it worth it?’

    Posted by The Editors on February 6, 2013, 6:03 pm

    ‘Come to tomorrow’s Great Iraq Debate: was it worth it ten years on?’

    The obscenity of that question would become very clear if Jones asked it of many other great crimes in history: 9/11 – was it worth it? The Nazi invasion of USSR, 1941 – was it worth it? Obscene questions.
    Was It Worth It? Iraq, Ten Years On
    The Huffington Post UK with Goldsmiths, University of London presents ‘The Great Iraq War Debate: Was It Worth It? Iraq, Ten Years On’

    Ten years on since the invasion of Iraq, the question still remains as to whether or not the war was worth it. The Huffington Post UK and Goldsmiths, University of London invite you to a debate to mark the anniversary of the biggest demonstration in British history against the Iraq War.

    Former cabinet minister Clare Short, Iraqi novelist and activist Haifa Zangana, Independent columnist Owen Jones and HuffPost UK’s Mehdi Hasan will be going up against former shadow defence secretary Bernard Jenkin MP, Times columnist David Aaronovitch, founder of Iraqi Prospect Organisation Dr Ali Latif and Shiraz Maher to argue over whether or not the invasion of Iraq was “worth it”.

    The debate will be introduced by Dr Des Freedman from the Department of Media and Communications at Goldsmiths, and will be chaired by HuffPost UK’s Editor-in-Chief, Carla Buzasi.

    The event is free to attend, reserve your place here:

    Arrive at 6:30pm for a 7pm start. Event will be finished by 09:00pm.

    Please print off your confirmation email and bring it to the event for registration.

  118. Craig…answer your bloody e mails !!

  119. More confused “thinking” from one of the Eminences of this blog :

    Nevermind at 18h20 “A minority coalition that not even consulted its members on the bill never mind the electorate…”

    MPs do not “consult” the electorate on individual issues, they are representatives and not delegates.

    Had the electorate been consulted, the bill would most probably not have passed. And were the electorate to be consulted, hanging would doubtlessly be re-introduced.


    Their Eminences’ clever solution :

    1/. Their Eminences approve of what the bill seeks to achieve

    2/. But they hate to give the Coalition and the PM credit for anything

    3/. So they waesel out by calling the whole issue “guff” and saying it’s a diversion from more serious stuff.

    Dishonest and stupid.

  120. Destroying the myths of habby, res diss and the other idiot

    “This is an extended review of a book which will shock those accustomed to the British official narrative of alleged ‘non-involvement’ in torture. The plain, unarguable facts are that, when the British State judges its security interests to be at stake, the gloves always come off; systematic depravity towards its captives is indulged, alongside simultaneous claims of the exact opposite. The book shows that, in all important respects, the British military/security establishments have led the world in the calculated use and refinement of torture techniques.”

  121. Covering up government criminality

    “As the weight of evidence mounts up, so the State becomes increasingly desperate to cover up. Miliband (D) pirouettes in the High Court, Straw denies any involvement in rendition before his assurances are contradicted by the discovery of documents in Tripoli. Then up pops the so called “Justice and Security Bill” – currently making its way through Parliament – in a desperate, blanket attempt to cover up all UK complicity in torture and rendition. However, the more attempts there are to cover it up the more the issue is exposed and it must be the supreme irony that as details of torture are finally being exposed from Kenya, the Government is embarking on yet another cover up.

    This is why Cobain’s allegations in Cruel Britannia are like a hand grenade in the heart of the establishment. The truth has had the pin pulled out of it by this book and is likely to go off at any moment. When it does, it will not only be the foot soldiers who end up being caught in the explosive consequences.”

  122. Not confused thinking this time, but something illustrating that other great speciality of the Eminences of this blog, namely, hypocrisy:

    Mary at 18h43, referring to the forthcoming debate on “Was it worth it? Iraq 10 years on”, writes

    “The ten of them {ie, the participants in the debate} … should just shut their mouths and respect the Iraqi dead”

    Mary, the great illuminator? Mary the great sniffer-out of censorship by the establishment? Mary, the ardent defender of free speach and public debate?

    “Shut their mouths”? Tut, tut, Mary.

  123. David, I don’t know about you being a “myth destroyer”, but you most certainly are a mighty supplier of quotations from others. Are you by any chance competing with Mary? It would be nice to have something original from you (a thought, for instance?) once in a while.

    Have a nice quoteful evening, Davy.

  124. More myths exposed – habby’s friends in the US abandon all pretense to due process.

    Torture, murder and authoritarian control. Prsumably this is what habby means by practicing Catholic. The other clown then pretends that this is what is supported by the 99%.

    You couldn’t make it up. But they do!

  125. A thought, Davy, a thought! Not an insult! Although it’s true that insults are easy, whereas a thought requires…thought.



    News of a Craig, (least?) favourite topic. Does this deserve a new tirade? ‘Course it does. ; ) –

    “The decision of the Crown Prosecution Service not to prosecute Adam Werritty,22 the one-time adviser to Liam Fox, not only afforded relief to the former Secretary of State for Defence and his long-time friend and flatmate, but also to No 10 – and not just because David Cameron seems to have plenty of other difficulties on his hands at the moment. The reason is that the Prime Minister’s vivacious press secretary, Gabby Bertin – currently on maternity leave – used to work closely with Mr Werritty and Dr Fox as the researcher and sole employee of Atlantic Bridge. The controversial Atlanticist defence ‘think tank’ was shut down after the Charity Commissioners said in 2010 that its primary objective appeared to be ‘promoting a political policy [that] is closely associated with the Conservative party’.”

    “Ms Bertin, a former banker, had her £25,000 salary at Atlantic Bridge paid by Pfizer, the giant US pharmaceutical company.”

    More at

    – Work in Progress – ‘Title Tatle’ – Summer 2013 – Issue 65 – Lobster Magazine –

  127. doug scorgie

    6 Feb, 2013 - 8:33 pm

    6 Feb, 2013 – 6:41 pm

    “My reading of it is that both Cameron and Obama have been put under some pressure to push through same-sex marriage legislation. Not from the general public of course but from above. The question is therefore: why are the banksters so keen on same-sex marriage?”

    I can’t see a logical reason why bankers or other elites would find it beneficial to their interests to pressurise governments (UK or US) to introduce same sex marriage but I am open to suggestions.

    I think a more likely motive for both Cameron and Obama is simply tactical manoeuvring for future votes.

    A same sex marriage bill was not enacted in Mondays vote. The House of Lords now has to have its say and a Ping-Pong battle between the Commons and the Lords may delay any legislation up to the next election.

  128. doug scorgie

    6 Feb, 2013 - 8:43 pm


    Where are my books?

  129. Oh dear, another one of habby’s heroes having a little spot of local difficulty. Funny the way that mythic 99% are never around when you need them, eh.

  130. Ex Pat I should say thanks for that link but having just had my supper and having just read it, I now feel sick. What a litany of the incestuous relationships that go to make what is referred to as the establishment of this rotten country, in politics, the media and business. Some of it was old news but much was new.

    This section refers to Lord Browne whom I referred to earlier. The Robertson mentioned is that sinister ex NATO Secretary General.

    Nick Butler
    Lord Robertson’s very old friend and fellow founder of the
    British American Project way back in 1984 was Nick Butler,
    who, according to official BAP history, was the young Chatham
    House research fellow on secondment from BP who managed
    to find the $425,000 launch money to get the BAP off the
    ground. He is still busy in retirement from his day job as righthand
    man to Lord Browne, who resigned as chief executive of
    BP in 2007 after being found to have lied repeatedly to the
    High Court about his private life.27 Browne, in a continuing
    influential public life, subsequently wrote the report ushering
    in higher student fees.28

    According to the 2013 Who’s Who, Butler still retains the
    treasureship of the Fabian Society he has held for over 30
    years, and serves as vice-president of the Hay Festival and is
    on Yale University’s international advisory board. He is now
    recorded as being chairman of the policy institute of King’s
    College London.29 There is no reference in Who’s Who to his
    first marriage – not unusual in its self-censoring entries – but
    more surprisingly, perhaps, no mention of his important role in
    helping set up the British American Project.


    A BAP coda
    Two small concluding footnotes on the BAP. The 1998 official
    history of the BAP, published soon after Lobster’s disclosure of
    the Project’s existence,30 paid tribute to the important role of
    banker and former British Steel chairman Sir Charles Villiers31
    in easing its birth. His daughter, Diana, has served on the
    BAP’s US advisory board under her married name of
    Negroponte. Husband John ‘had a distinguished career in
    diplomacy and national security’, according to Yale University,
    32 with which, like his wife’s old BAP friend Butler, he has a
    continuing connection. In 2004 when he was appointed US
    ambassador to post-invasion Iraq, his role in Honduras at the
    time of the BAP’s foundation was described by Counterpunch
    as that of ‘ambassador to death squads’.33

    An early recruit to the BAP in 1991, Brendan Barber rose
    to be general secretary the TUC and talked a lot of Britain’s
    ‘stratospheric inequality’.34 After 37 years as Congress House
    bureaucrat Barber retired on New Year’s Eve with a £100,000
    pay-off in addition to his pension.35 This is not likely to match
    the earnings of two of Barber’s other 1991 BAP ‘fellows’,
    Damon Buffini and Jonathan Powell. Multimillionaire Buffini, as
    chairman of Permira, became the apparently reluctant public
    face of private equity.36 Powell is now a senior managing
    director with Morgan Stanley37and one of the New Labour
    senior network doing quite nicely in Barber’s Britain of
    ‘stratospheric inequality’.38

    Noam Chomsky on the appointment of Villiers’s son-in-law to Baghdad
    can be read at .

  131. Shame the links didn’t print although they were copied along with the Lobster text.

    David. The headless version should be erected. :)

  132. doug scorgie

    6 Feb, 2013 - 9:16 pm

    George Galloway –v- Cameron

    ‘I asked a reasonable question, to detail the difference between the jihadists in Mali we oppose and the jihadists in Syria we back and in response to a legitimate inquiry I received a sneering insult more fitted to the gutters of Eton than the Mother of all Parliaments,’

    Galloway said. ‘Britain is guilty to backing the worst, most bloodthirsty dictators in the world, bar none. This country backs and arms the foul Saudi Arabian sheikhdom which has the least democracy and probably the worst human rights record on the planet.

    Then there’s Bahrain. And what about Egypt where this government backed Mubarak until almost the end? And it is less than a week ago, isn’t it, that the Foreign Office was warning British citizens to get out of Benghazi immediately for fear of their lives – at risk from the same jihadis we supplied, armed and fought for.’

    Galloway added: ‘I have written to the Prime Minister today about his response to me and I will be interested how he responds.’

    Below is the text of the letter:

    Wednesday 30th January 2012

    Dear Prime Minister,

    I’m sure on reflection you will realise that your answer to me today was beneath you and unbecoming for a British Prime Minister. I will deal with the complete absence of a substantive reply in a moment. But let me deal first with the vulgar abuse.

    I do not support any Arab dictatorship, unlike you. It is you who is selling weapons to the dictatorship in Saudi Arabia and providing military training there. It is you who is supporting the Bahraini dictatorship. It is you who supported the Mubarak dictatorship until its last hours. Ditto the late dictatorship in Tunisia, Yemen etc.

    It is you who has the warmest possible relations with the dictatorships in the Gulf. I could go on, believe me. I, on the other hand, have spoken, written and broadcast against all Arab dictatorships. Perhaps your staff, in preparing your reply, will provide you with the evidence of this. I also read Frankenstein until the end.

    I told one of your predecessors, Lady Thatcher, on the eve of the triumph of those whom your party routinely described as ‘Afghan freedom fighters’ that she “had opened the gates to the barbarians…. And that a long dark night would now descend upon the people of Afghanistan”.

    I warned repeatedly against the folly of the creation of the Arab-Afghan force which became Al Qaida. Immediately after 9/11 I said in the House that “I despise Osama Bin Laden, the medieval obscurantist savage. The difference is that I have always despised him. I despised him when you (pointing at the Tory benches) were giving him guns and money”.

    I find it genuinely inexplicable that you are doing it all over again. This is a tragedy which begins to look farcical when one considers the issue which I raised today with you. We are now killing Al Qaida in Mali and helping Al Qaida kill in Syria – killing Christians, killing Shiites, killing Kurds, killing Druze, killing Sunnis who won’t join their jihad, and soon, trust me, they will be killing each other.

  133. Chris Hedges makes an argument that sorely undermines the naive and simplistic analysis of habby hero Niall Ferguson:

    “The human species, led by white Europeans and Euro-Americans, has been on a 500-year-long planetwide rampage of conquering, plundering, looting, exploiting and polluting the Earth—as well as killing the indigenous communities that stood in the way. But the game is up. The technical and scientific forces that created a life of unparalleled luxury—as well as unrivaled military and economic power—for the industrial elites are the forces that now doom us.”

    “Karl Marx and Adam Smith both pointed to the influx of wealth from the Americas as having made possible the Industrial Revolution and the start of modern capitalism. It was the rape of the Americas, Wright points out, that triggered the orgy of European expansion. The Industrial Revolution also equipped the Europeans with technologically advanced weapons systems, making further subjugation, plundering and expansion possible.”

    Yup, Mary. Habby’s headless hero. Apt.

  134. HaBbabKuK: “A thought, Davy, a thought! Not an insult! Although it’s true that insults are easy, whereas a thought requires…thought.”

    An insight, Habby, an insight! Not a thought! Although it’s true that thoughts are easy, whereas an insight requires…no thought.

    Can you manage that? Can you even take that in?

  135. @ David (21h33) : a nice quote from Chris Hedges, Davy, but what’s the connection with the distinguished academic historian Niall Ferguson?

    BTW, Chris Hedges – is he that American left-wing journalist? BA in English Literature and an MA in Divinity?

  136. Today everyone said sorry yet they did not resign, as any person of honour would have done.

    1. Sir David Nicholson, head of the NHS Confederation, and who was the head of the Strategic Health Authority that had overall control of the Mid Staffs Hospitals Foundation Trust during the period of the hospitals’ shortcomings. He has got the job of launching the new improved Cameron style privatised NHS as Chief Executive of the National Health Commissioning Board in April. Head honcho.

    See his career path. His second wife is the Chief Executive of Birmingham Children’s Hospital.

    Did he take any action to sort out the Mid Staffs failures and problems? No.

    2. Stephen Hester Chief Executive of RBS. The bank’s illegal LIBOR activities were happening during his first two years in the post.

    Did he do anything to put a stop to them? No.

  137. While a section of the gay community might be happy with the bill, giving greater perceived equality, and future generations might be more fully integrated into the mainstream, I think a far greater but less vocal component of gay people wouldn’t want these religious cranks waving dead chickens over them, mumbling cant and flaunting their holy book superstitions. Neither their (begrudging) blessing or their curses are welcome much or even worth attention. It seems something like the fox-hunting debacle, something to convulse and divide the politicians, and then the public according to their inculcated prejudices and conditioning: tokenism, the substance of which matters not but serves as a distraction from serious affairs snuk in under cover of the row which will ensue; a mad punch-drunk on power clique revelling in ever more despicable brazen wholesale theft and killing, and which will shame all of this country till eternity for their crimes.

    All places of worship should be converted to well-equipped community workshops in which all manner of items can be repaired, refurbished or recycled, with marriages over an anvil.

    I’d offer Richard the Turd’s bones to Leicester Cat and Dog Home for strays to chew on.

    I wouldn’t feed bitter genocide apologist trolls anything but poisoned pieces of raw rat.

  138. How the the misinformation, lies, and prejudices that are used too formulate disorder hitherto were used to establish order. How much different could things become?

    Look for the tenacity.

  139. Habbab, who was up early this morning all excited with Songs of Praise for Camera-on:

    “BTW, I note the big silence re. the gay and lesbian marriage bill which was voted yesterday. A further step towards equality, which should be welcomed – loudly – by the eminences on this blog. Where’s Mary with her links? Nevermind? Doug Scorgie? Villager? Komodo? I say : three cheers for David Cameron on this one!”

    The institution of marriage is broken. If the gays want a piece of that action, of course they should be welcomed to make the mistake. Why should heteros suffer alone?

    Wow Habby what a statesman your idol is! Is that all it takes to de-light you? Shows what a light you are unto yourself.

    Just had to feed you that before you turn out your lights. My compassion for you would not allow you to bed hungry. But sleep well knowing that Cameron needs followers like you. Eyes shut widely.

  140. Seems as though habby hero, Niall Ferguson is a bit of a troll himself. I suspect if we looked at other habby heroes we’d find a similar inability to speak truthfully. This may be down to a lazy carelessness, dishonesty or just general ignorance, or some combination of all three.

    Let’s see what they say about Niall. These from a number of different commentators, named in the article:

    “”We are not talking about ideology or even economic analysis here,” writes the Nobel prize-winning economist and New York Times columnist Paul Krugman, with whom Ferguson has had several previous run-ins, “just a plain misrepresentation of the facts.” Krugman accuses Ferguson of “unethical commentary” and “deliberately misleading readers”, and suggests Newsweek should print an “abject correction” of one particularly “cheap shot” on healthcare reform.”

    “Ferguson’s story “is so careless and unconvincing that I wonder how he will presume to sit in judgment of the next set of student papers he has to grade”.”

    “embarrassingly bad”


    “”editing” a key Congressional Budget Office report on Obama’s healthcare reform “to change its meaning”

    “Ferguson delves into a fantasy world of incorrect and tendentious facts. He simply gets things wrong, again and again and again.”

    “intellectual fraud”

    “based on a bunch of crap he made up.”

    “Even the king of US political bloggers, Andrew Sullivan, calling himself “an old and good friend” of Ferguson’s, accuses the historian of “massively – and rather self-evidently – distorting” Obama’s record and promises several more posts on the subject, because sadly “the piece is … ridden with errors and elisions and non-sequiturs”.”


    In response, Niall doesn’t address the issues raised. Rather he plays the distractio ad infinitum game.

    Remind you of anyone?

  141. Of course, habby hero Niall quotes very approvingly of fellow Scot, Adam Smith, calls him the cleverest man in the world. Perhaps he didn’t read him well enough.

    “Karl Marx and Adam Smith both pointed to the influx of wealth from the Americas as having made possible the Industrial Revolution and the start of modern capitalism. It was the rape of the Americas, Wright points out, that triggered the orgy of European expansion. The Industrial Revolution also equipped the Europeans with technologically advanced weapons systems, making further subjugation, plundering and expansion possible.”

    So, it’s money wot won it. Plundering, rape, pillage, murder, slaughter, theft. The usual.

    The question of course is, where does this leave wee Nially and his killer apps, eh, eh?

  142. “Monarchy is bollocks.” Oh, brilliant argument, for making a jackass like Cameron President of the Republic, living in the palace with all the residual powers now reserved to the monarch. You’re complete indifference to the limitation on the power imposed by a constitutional monarch on clowns like Cameron and Blair indicates a lack either of sense or honesty.

  143. Had to have a laugh at the lobster 65 preview tittle-tattle ‘Alex and Rupert do a deal’.

    “There can be little surprise that the SNP, heavily reliant on the editorial support of Rupert Murdoch, has been steered by leader Alex Salmond through a U-turn over nuclear weapons and NATO membership.

    The suggestion that the SNP is heavily reliant on the editorial support of this Rupert, is so far off and wide of the mark as to cause astonishment broken only by tears of laughter. I know so many supporters of Independence and not one gives two hoots for the unreality field that is Murdoch’s mind or the mix of the sinister and the dross his media titles spew forth. Much like in Liverpool Murdoch’s output is universally derided and sneered at. How this total and unwavering contempt for all that is Murdoch can possibly translate into being ‘heavily reliant on his editorial support’ is a stretch of the actuality beyond limit.

    The item then gets worse, the closing line: ‘Perhaps a future opening there for Mr
    Salmond if the referendum doesn’t go well?’, is not borne by any of the proceeding matter, George Robertson’s moronic non sequitur fits within a piece of constructed entirely of them.

    I think the over-whelming Yes vote in the referendum in spite of a hostile media – which when the day comes will include a full onslaught from the Murdoch machinery – will be the final nail in the coffin signifying the decline to powerlessness of the detestable old media.

    The Lobster slides down the credibility scale with this sour piss, branching into comedy.

  144. Noid

    The existence of a monarchy in the UK does little if anything of substance to limit executive power.

    On the contrary the existence of the monarchy actually enhances executive power through their use of the royal prerogative; powers which cannot be scrutinized.

    If we had a republic then we’d have more effective control over the usage of these powers.

    So, the monarchy doesn’t add anything in terms of accountability and in fact takes away accountability.

  145. Noid: I think I know what you’re about, it’s the old good king – bad king routine.

    Someone contended they’re little more than state employees, public servants since the 17th Century precedent, who can be hired and fired lawfully at the publics whim, though our record is for the new starts to be even worse than the p45 bearing departees.

    As public servants then as with Lords; MPs; Judges etc. their interests, investments should be fully declared and known (not that this has ensured such luminaries are purer than even yellow snow), that they do not use their official and vaster unofficial powers to plunder the planet, start wars, kill for the bottom line of oil and armaments holdings, using the mangled bodies of economic conscript killers and resources of the state for personal gain.

    Who then told Blair to invade Iraq was it GWB or was it ER who told them both?

    As head of state the monarch is untimately responsible along with the executive who oiled the wheels of the war machine –for execrable crimes. What is to be done with heads of state who are in the final analysis wanted war criminals and on the run? I’d say in that circumstance any employment contract would be unquestionably torn up, broken, deserted.

    De-Windsorification anyone?



    “The whole Sensor Deprivation process in Northern Ireland was a package deal. Being awaken in the middle of the night, being beaten, confused as to your whereabouts, lied to and insulted, was all part of the ‘unfreezing process’ through which your psychological defences were broken down, and terror and humiliation were induced.”

    “Hence, the photographing in the nude, being forced to urinate while running, refusal to allow toilet visits, the sadism and abuse. Meanwhile the psychological functions of the body were being disturbed by the very low or non-existent intake of calories, high temperature caused by sweating which could lead to dehydration, coupled with the cold at night, sleep deprivation and loss of sense of touch.”

    The whole experience was a package. Whether you want to call it interrogation in depth or brain washing is academic. The aim of the treatment was to cause temporary psychosis, temporary insanity, which was a severe psychological injury liable to having lasting consequences.”

    ‘United States, Canada, Britain: Partners in Mind Control Operations,’ by ‘Armen Victorian’ July 1996

    As in Ireland, so in Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, Libya, Mali, Yemen, Poland, Lithuania, Thailand, Diego Garcia, on and on.

    “That’s the way to treat the w@#$” (ER, begin at Calais? Ed.)

    No change there, then!

    Found on page 1 – ‘Armen Victorian’ – The View from the Bridge’ by Robin Ramsay, –

    – Work in Progress – Lobster 65 – Summer – 2013 –

  147. Gaia Hepburn

    7 Feb, 2013 - 7:22 am

    I am fed up with reading the disinformation speed forth by a certain boring, juvenile and distracting troll, ( you know who you are, vile moniker). Please can he be moderated away? Ban this tedious disinformation merchant please. Could we have a poll to bar him from posting? He is not of the effective calibre of WWII Lord Haw Haw but just as silly and irritating.

  148. Gaia Hepburn

    7 Feb, 2013 - 7:23 am

    Sorry for the typo. “Speed” should read ” spread

  149. Gaia Hepburn

    7 Feb, 2013 - 7:24 am

    Or if you prefer ” spewed”

  150. Ah ha, the voices of censorship re-appear. But I suppose that’s normal when arguments and points are unassailable….

  151. BTW the comparisons with Lord Haw Haw demonstrate rather well the un-real world some of the commmenters on this blog inhabit. Habbabkuk on is Lord Haw Haw in WW II! Gaia, I invite you to re-join what Resident Dissident called “the 99%”…

  152. Habbabkuk, I hadn’t the foggiest what Gaia was going on about until the good Catholic pops-up and claims honest responsibility.

  153. “Had to have a laugh at the lobster 65 preview tittle-tattle ‘Alex and Rupert do a deal’.”

    We criticise all the leaders here, Cameron, Miliband, Cleg, Obama.

    When I see someone worshipping a head of government, truly believing the sun shines out of his arsehole, proclaiming he can do no wrong it is worrying. Reminiscent of 1930s Germany.


    The case of this pensioner who died after being left without care for nine days has now being taken up by BBC London News last night and Sky News this morning. They parrot each other but do not detail the underlying shortcomings in the system where care is outsourced to for-profit agencies as I have said. In this case it was closed immediately following the Border Agency raid. The police are now investigating.

    We used to have residential state run care homes and social services departments employed home helps and carers. Mrs T in her decline probably has round the clock nurses in residence.

    I am not proud to live in a country where this case of terrible neglect has happened.

  155. Trouble at’ mill, The Guardian staff are revolting…..against Rusbridger’s pay and staff sackings.

  156. A story about another silly spad, this time one of Cleggover’s, which I spotted when visiting the site for the Guardian stuff above.

  157. Fred: From you then just another nasty smear/scare from the unionist book of filthy tricks.
    This time, a change for you: comparisions with Hitler, unsubtle, predictable, sad.

  158. @JohnF “But the Anglo Saxon Kings did remain a powerful memory in England. The parliamentarians in the Civil War believed they had overthrown the Norman Yoke. The founding fathers in the US believed that their constitution was a remaking of the Anglo Saxon Constitution and their first warship was named Alfred. The Chartists wanted a return to the more open, democratic ideals of Alfred and Ethelflaed’s kingdom. A lot of Victorian and Edwardian painters celebrated portraits of Anglo Saxon kings. I can remember a pamphlet in the 1970′s demanding a return to the “Anglo Saxon Constitution.”

    I feel like throwing off the Norman yoke too, whenever someone starts talking bureaucratic idiot talk to me, not necessarily using Romance roots, but saying e.g. “make aware” instead of “tell”, and “vehicle” instead of “car”.

    A chap in a car garage the other day spoke about “ascertaining what the problem is, with reference to your vehicle”. He kept on bloody saying it. Normans out by 2066!

    I’m no great fan of the Anglo-Saxon regime, but it’s fair to recognise that conditions under it were nicer, generally speaking, than under the Romano-British and Norman ones.

    Anyway, the reason I’m posting is to ask whether you can say some more about the US founding fathers’ references to things Anglo-Saxon. The Anglo-Saxon regime didn’t have a constitution (which can only be written, and is not equivalent to ‘tradition’ or ‘custom'; no regimes should be judged in terms of what its scribes or publicists say about it), but to what extent did the USFFs refer to Anglo-Saxon notions?

    I believe the modern (mainly outside of the UK) usage of ‘Anglo-Saxon’ to describe the area consisting of the UK, the US and the mainly white Commonwealth countries, dates back no earlier than about 1900.

    As for US WASPs, personally I call them ‘Yankees’ :)

    ‘Anglo-Saxon’ has ethnic as well as political connotations. Thus Singapore, which is highly ‘Anglo’, doesn’t count. Nor does the Republic of Ireland, which has an English-style legal system. Nor of course do Northern Ireland, Scotland or Wales, despite large-scale Saxon and English influences.

    Was ‘Ethelflaed’ (Alfie’s daughter) a typo for ‘Ealhswith’ (his missus)?

  159. I imagine that to get rid of the monarchy would need the permission of all the other realms who have the Queen as their head, and they might not agree :)

  160. What would it have meant to ‘die a Catholic’ in 1485, bearing in mind that Luther was 2 years old, and Henry VII’s granddaughter had yet to be branded a heretic by the Pope?

  161. doug scorgie

    7 Feb, 2013 - 11:03 am

    Some corruption involved here methinks.

    The Department of Health has been criticised for allowing a new hospital in Peterborough while a private firm was being hired to run Hinchingbrooke Hospital 24 miles away.

    The MPs said there had been a “complete lack of strategic oversight” of NHS services in the region.

    [The Commons public accounts committee said] that “the strategic management of health resources across the East of England SHA [Strategic Health Authority] has failed”.

    It said the Department of Health was “ultimately responsible” for the decision to locate two hospitals “only 24 miles apart… in an area of the country where the NHS has a long-acknowledged over-provision of acute healthcare”.

    The new Peterborough City Hospital was built under a private finance initiative (PFI) scheme which has proven to be financially “catastrophic” for the Peterborough and Stamford Hospitals Trust, the committee said.

  162. Shooting The Messenger…continued.

    Last I heard, it was all about taking out a TV aerial. Shame about the collateral damage to observers on the ground, but all those rockets. And the Holocaust…

  163. @Robbie. Good question! To say Richard III was a Catholic means that he was a communicant member of the ‘Roman’ Catholic church, unlike Orthodox Christians (both ‘Greek’ Orthodox and the ‘Russian’ Orthodox who earlier in the 15th century declared Moscow as the third Rome), other Christians, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, etc. etc. etc., of that time.

    OK so what does that mean?

    The position is different from what it is with Alfred.

    Alfred, who died before 1016, might just as accurately be called Orthodox as ‘Roman’ Catholic.

    This is because he was a communicant member of the Rome-Byzantium church before the 1054 schism into West and East. And if we want to call him Orthodox, we might just as accurately say ‘Russian’ as ‘Greek’, because that split happened 4 centuries later. For who’s to say which of these gangs really holds the ‘true’ apostolic thread? :)

    This is not idle prattle on my part. Have a look at where the relics of Edward the Martyr are kept (it’s near Woking) and who by.

    Protestants don’t believe in that apostolic thread stuff, so neither Alfred nor Richard III could be called Protestants.

    But…wait a minute…here come the Anglicans, ‘Anglo-Catholic’ faction, waving their monarchist banners…

    They, of course, do think they hold the thread…

    They, unlike the evangelical Anglicans, therefore get the inverted commas around ‘Anglican’ for the same reason as it went around ‘Roman’, ‘Greek’ and ‘Russian’ above.

    Let’s not forget how loony a regime we live in…

    …The ‘queen’ gets presented with gold, frankincense and myrrh at Epiphany each year in the Chapel Royal in St James’s Palace.

    She wears white when she meets the pope. Work that one out. It’s because she’s viewed by her creepy followers as the head of a religion.

    The Church of England’s ‘creed’ declares “We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.”

    (The only exclusively Anglican saint is Charles I. Canonised by the Church of England after the Reformation. Talk about the Tory party at prayer! This isn’t so amusing, given that the official position since 1660, both before and after the Act of Union, has been that the monarch is immune from suit and can’t be criminally tried, and that when Charles Stuart actually was tried, and found guilty, of offences including murder and treason, that was only because the House of Commons had been taken over by criminals.)

    So…I take your point, Robbie, to the extent that those members of the Church of England who fly the flag of the ‘true’ apostolic succession, and who keep away from any suggestion that they might be Protestants, could put in a claim for Richard III with just as much ‘legitimacy’ as the ‘Roman’ Catholic claim.

    The Lutherans, though – nah, not them. :) Dicky Turd wasn’t a Proddie.

    (Don’t get me started!)

  164. “I can’t see a logical reason why bankers or other elites would find it beneficial to their interests to pressurise governments (UK or US) to introduce same sex marriage but I am open to suggestions”

    It might equally be difficult to understand why bankers were so keen on feminism, but they were. The Rockefeller Foundation bankrolled the Women’s Lib movement in the 60s and 70s. Turned out the reason was to increase the tax take by encouraging more women to work and also to weaken the mother-child bond so the state could assume greater control over children.

    Something similar may be going on here. A long-term weakening of the nuclear family resulting in yet more scope for state intervention and control. Just a thought.

  165. @ MJ. I agree that they are consciously aiming to weaken the nuclear family and have already done so to a great extent, and also that the whole business is about being able to control people more.

    The means is atomisation…individualism…and the carrier ideology is ‘freedom’ understood in a totally market sense.

    Where you go wrong is hypostatising the notion of the state. Feminism was about encouraging women to do paid work, yes. But that wasn’t principally about the ‘tax take'; it was about getting more surplus value produced for those in control, as well as building up markets and consumerism, which is based on atomisation. You overload the ‘state’ here… The ruling class is fundamentally capitalist. The state is one weapon it uses.

  166. @MJ – so I agree about same-sex message.

    Another thing we will probably get is lowering the voting age to 16. Hello to a chunk of votes even more malleable than the others. Maybe youngsters can tweet their votes in? :( It’s the next stop on from ‘liking’ crap at Facebook or on internet forums, right? Watch this space. Talk about mindfuck.

    But even more importantly than that, it might be a move towards allowing people to sign contracts at 16, which the money-lenders would of course absolutely love.

    One of results of increasing the proportion of people going to university has been to get almost the whole of the population into big-time debt as soon as they are legally able to take on debt, namely at 18. (Britain and Ireland very much stand out relative to other nearby countries on this.) As a piece of moneylender-caused social engineering, this rivals the spread of the mortgage. So…push push push, let’s try to get it down to 16…or why not 10.

  167. OK before I go, on gay marriage – here’s a video that says it all, thanks to Laurel and Hardy:


  168. “MPs do not “consult” the electorate on individual issues, they are representatives and not delegates.”

    Our resident troll, already screaming ‘censoreship’ before we even have booted him out, a very Israeli notion that, screaming before something has happened, is a supporter of dictatorship, rather than mandated politics, what a revelation.

    Well sunny girl, that is were you have to learn, because this scenario, perpetuated by the minority party politicians, is exactly the sort of free bootery Pirates used in their murderous occupation, for Queen and country, blessed by the establishment.

    Independent politics will show you what it means to piss on people’s life, Schmuck, they had enough of the likes of you.

    That said, we have listened to this ‘thing’ for weeks, waited for contributions from her/him and got lectures on how to run this blog, and although we could do with a mascot, I think, we deserve a better one than this.

    I second Gaia’s call to have Habbakuk removed now, he had his chance and we had our entertainment, now its time to go home, oh dear, looking at his specs, what a pity, he seem to have no home, because occupied Jerusalem belongs to Palestine

    Ah well there is always a card board box for you somewhere. Bye bye.

  169. doug scorgie

    7 Feb, 2013 - 12:21 pm

    Zionist spokesperson and Lubavitch Rabbi Schochet on Big Questions – Lubavitch supports genocide of the Palestinians and excuses child abuse within the Jewish community


    Israeli Army Ignores High Court as it Evicts Palestinian village

  170. Yes, I can see your point, N_.

    But I’m still not sure what it means to ‘die a Catholic’ in 1485 when you’ve been hacked to death by French mercenaries.

  171. @ Gaia Hepburn 7 Feb, 2013 – 7:22 am

    “I am fed up with reading the disinformation spe[w]ed forth by a certain boring, juvenile and distracting troll, ( you know who you are, vile moniker). Please can he be moderated away? Ban this tedious disinformation merchant please. Could we have a poll to bar him from posting? He is not of the effective calibre of WWII Lord Haw Haw but just as silly and irritating.”

    I share your feelings but I disagree with your solution. I believe we should sort these problems out ourselves. As far as I am aware, there is only one moderator here (hi, Jon, much appreciated) and banning someone means that the ban then has to be enforced – check for new name, same IP address – and anyway, anybody IT savvy can get round it.

    My solutions:
    (1) Remind the people who persistently respond to him that they are just as much a part of the problem as he is.
    (2) Skip any comment by or addressed to him. This one is surprisingly satisfying, try it.

  172. Re. trolls (do you have a troll? The shelter down my road does rescue trolls if anyone’s interested):

    ….it is vital that trolls maintain a steady diet of ambivalence and ignorant bliss to maintain their puny stature. As much as you want to punish him or her, remember that little FluffyLoveBunny needs to be ignored after he or she comes home with you. A steady diet of neglect will keep you living in harmony with your new troll!

    I’m going to call mine Hugglesnuck.

  173. @ N_ 7 Feb, 2013 – 12:01 pm

    “One of results of increasing the proportion of people going to university has been to get almost the whole of the population into big-time debt as soon as they are legally able to take on debt, namely at 18. (Britain and Ireland very much stand out relative to other nearby countries on this.) As a piece of moneylender-caused social engineering, this rivals the spread of the mortgage. So…push push push, let’s try to get it down to 16…or why not 10. ”

    The importance of this has been completely overlooked. Even left-wing friends of mine with children about to go off to university seem to shrug. They have bought the government propaganda that with a cheap loan there is no problem.

    There IS a problem – big one. The average person graduating from now on will end up repaying something around £100,000 over 30 years, at todays money. With inflation it will be a lot more. Thats over £3000 per year. Its in the same range as the debt from buying a house.

    And this could get worse. The Student Loan Company is going to be privatised. Currently it is set to charge 3% + RPI interest on loans. There seems no guarantee that the rate will not be increased. Plus the government will act as debt collectors for them

    People will be turned into debt serfs by this.

  174. “Monarchy is bollocks”

    Never more succinctly phrased !

  175. Jonangus Mackay

    7 Feb, 2013 - 3:20 pm

    And what does St Andrews University have to say for itself? So far silence. Here’s its website profile on the fraudster alleged to have bombed a department store & fathered a child using fake ID. They now employ him to teach ‘terrorism studies':
    Read the background here:

  176. “Fred: From you then just another nasty smear/scare from the unionist book of filthy tricks.
    This time, a change for you: comparisions with Hitler, unsubtle, predictable, sad.”

    Cameron is a slimeball, Clegg is a slimeball, Miliband is a slimeball, Salmond is a slimeball and any one of them would sell their souls to the devil or Murdoch for political gain.

    There’s something decidedly amiss when people start worshipping political leaders as saints who can do no wrong.

  177. “There’s something decidedly amiss when people start worshipping political leaders as saints who can do no wrong.”

    It can only end in tears and disillusionment too.

  178. My default position is that RIII’s bones are a charade.
    And I’m not the least bit interested to a single minutes research to find out either way – as if it makes the slightest bit of difference to anything that the teeth-drawingly repetitive volumes produced on the subject; Something that been droned on about this for eons, sexed up by history teachers believing the ‘princes’ will somehow magically make them personally interesting inspiring pupils thereafter to gain an interest in history, a “British(establishment) History” that is, which dares NOT put any focus on ANY of the numerous hideous crimes committed by the British.

  179. [Radio presenter] ‘Richard One hundred and eleven’ – LOL!
    More interesting than the reality actually.

  180. Thanks Komodo, yes I know anode…..:-(

    Here is another troll seemingly needing that treatment, ‘the return of my Broth.’ said Ed of brother Dave…
    here he is trying to come back in Europe…

    And here is the little co torturer and Straw lick spittle, a snooze on the tube, after a heavy lunch so it seems.

    How well behaved of the public for not thumping him.

  181. Try this for why they target the traditional and sell us the other.

  182. lwtc247 Have you ever read The Blood Never Dried? It has been reprinted and is available online.

    It should be handed out to every secondary school pupil.

    ‘Newsinger’s book is therefore urgent, essential reading. There is a current campaign in England being promoted around the place by various well meaning celebrities and politicians saying ‘History Matters – Pass It On’. Yet one look at the organisers of this campaign – the ‘National Trust, English Heritage, the National Heritage Memorial Fund and the Heritage Lottery Fund, the Council for British Archaeology, Heritage Link, Historic Houses Association and the Society for the Protection of Ancient Buildings’ – instantly reveal which sort of ‘History’ the organisers want people to ‘pass on’. It is not an internationalist history, one that can help us understand the current world crisis at all – rather it is an attempt to get us to visit more English stately homes and look up to the aristocrats who lived in them as if only the ruling class ‘matter’. As John Game has written, there is ‘an attempt to transform world history into an adjunct of the British heritage industry’ reflecting the ‘current crisis of national identity in this rather small country seeking to re-assert its relevence in the era of globalisation. One should take care with such parochial agenda’s as we have recently seen where such re-assertions might lead us in both Iraq and Afghanistan.’

    Newsingers book The Blood Never Dried is not a comprehensive history of the British Empire, just as his work on George Orwell, Orwell’s Politics, was not a comprehensive biography. Yet like his work on Orwell, it is valuable – indeed essential, just the same. There has always been a disgusting history of support for Empire from some ‘socialists’ in Britain, from the Fabians to the leaders of the British Labour Party, a tradition which has reached its nadir in Tony Blair. It is often said that the British Labour Party was influenced more by Methodism than by Marxism. This is very true, but it is also the case as the legendary Trinidadian and Pan-Africanist George Padmore once noted, the Labour Party was always influenced ‘more by Rudyard Kipling than Karl Marx’. With Blair’s talk of spreading ‘civilisation and democracy’ through waging what Kipling called ‘the savage wars of peace’, New Labour is truly taking up the ‘White Man’s burden’ with a vengeance. Newsinger shows that support for the war crimes of the British Empire has run throughout the history of the British Labour Party, both Old and New.’

    PS That review comes from 2006.

  183. That Miliband snoozes…. has been taken down Nevermind.

    We cannot find the page you are looking for.
    The page may have been moved, updated or deleted.
    There might be a problem with the website.
    You may have typed the web address incorrectly. Please check the address and spelling.

    Not so long ago, he was speaking in the Atlee room on Holocaust Memorial Day.

    Hansard 21 Jan 2013 : Column 20
    Richard Harrington (Watford) (Con): I am sure that Ministers will be aware that Holocaust memorial day will take place this week and that the work of the Holocaust Education Trust has been commended by this and previous Governments. Are they also aware that the Lord Merlyn-Rees memorial lecture will take place this evening here in Parliament—in the Attlee suite—at which the former Foreign Secretary, the right hon. Member for South Shields (David Miliband), and Mr Danny Finkelstein of the Times will speak? I hope that Ministers will implore their constituents and colleagues to attend.

    Michael Gove: I look forward to listening to both the right hon. Member for South Shields (David Miliband) and Mr Finkelstein of The Times this evening. Let me place on record my gratitude to the last Government for instituting state support for the Holocaust Education Trust, and particularly to my predecessor as Secretary of State, the right hon. Member for Morley and Outwood (Ed Balls), for the courage and commitment that he showed to the fantastic work of the HET. I extend my congratulations also to its chief executive, Karen Pollock, who is an inspirational public figure and richly deserved her recent recognition in the honours list.


  184. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    7 Feb, 2013 - 5:25 pm

    Komodo; Sorry. You can’t have your own Troll. They belong to the community. It’s the only way to be fair.

  185. Doug Scorgie drew attention above to the PFI hospital project in Peterborough which, as is usual with these PFI contracts, has gone shockingly wrong in financial terms.

    What a massive place. Anyone with sense could see that it was over the top. Ordered up in NuLabour’s time and completed in 2010. The contractors were an Australian multi national called Brookfield Multiplex.

    The hospital is just one of 168 projects shown on their website.

  186. Jonangus Mackay

    7 Feb, 2013 - 5:30 pm

    Still playing a double game? See comments beneath this YouTube clip of former under-cover cop Lambert:

  187. Another trick is to foster the illusion that the upper (and ruling) classes are these bumbling buffoons, idiots, eccentrics obsessed with newts, muffins etc. -the sort of things Wodehouse wrote, very cleverly and funny, but with an underlying message that these few are in any way like the rest of us and possessed of some sort of morality, they’re certainly not harmless and while there a high number of congenital idiots, there is a hard core cadre of calculating tyrants, ever looking for new ways to butcher whole tribes, loot and despoil our environment, accumulate and wield life changing power over the many.

    This tube falling asleep on underground system seems very much a stunt, suggesting he’s human too, it seems more likely he’s missing the limelight, or the former FS has had a tiff with his security detail. At any time whilst beavering away in the background during the worst of Blair’s excesses, he had the choice to just walk away, tell all he’d seen and heard –he’s tainted, with all of that nulab set, for the rest of their short political lives.

    That this other Miliband is still shielded from public wrath suggests there’ll still be an attempt to foist him on the rotting corpse of the Labour Party and on a country close by.

  188. @Mary
    Sorry, it was at that site when I copied the URL, don’t know, it might have been some double, or David complained, or his brother, who knows.

  189. The likely Tory candidate for Eastleigh. She stood at the last election and came second to Huhne.

    Them she said:”After years of campaigning, I realised that the Labour Government had not only let down the most vulnerable in society but the whole nation and so I wanted to do something about it.”

    What will she say now after nearly three years of Cameron’s and Clegg’s medicine?

  190. Latest Alert: Jousting With Toothpicks – The Case For Challenging Corporate Journalism

    The latest essay from the Medialens editors.

  191. doug scorgie

    7 Feb, 2013 - 7:20 pm

    Ecuador elections coming soon (17th Feb).

    Why the US hates Rafael Correa:

    (Craig Murray gets a mention)

    Known for his anti-neoliberal stand since his time as a youthful Minister of Economy in the cabinet of Alfredo Palacio – the vice president who became president after the departure of Gutiérrez – to attaining the presidency, Correa threw the World Bank out of Ecuador and broke with the conditions imposed on the country by the IMF.

    He confronted the transnationals which were plundering Ecuador, such as Oxy (the Occidental Corporation) which bore off approximately 100,000 barrels of crude oil from Amazonia and sold 40% of its shares to the Canadian company Encana without Quito’s authorization; he renegotiated and revoked contracts for oil extraction which previously left the largest profits with foreign companies and barely four dollars a barrel for the nation.

    He ended privatizations and restored to the state its leading role.

    Despite pressure from the United States, he fulfilled the majority demand of the people and, acting on his own convictions, refused to renegotiate the agreement allowing U.S. forces use of the Manta military base. This decision opened a small, but humiliating hole in the Pentagon’s national security doctrine, implanted in dozens of military bases for the control of Latin America.

    This consideration does not come from sectors of the left. Former diplomat CRAIG MURRAY, posted to Uzbekistan, was the first to disclose last October that the CIA intended to invest $87 million of Pentagon funds to destabilize Correa in the run-up to the elections.

    The money, he stated, would be used to bribe and coerce the media and state officials and that media scandals and spatterings of corruption against the government were to be expected.

  192. I see a long protracted law case ensuing here with claims for damages, consequential losses, damage to reputation, from Findus against Comigel.

    Some Findus beef lasagne was up to 100% horsemeat, says FSA

  193. doug scorgie

    7 Feb, 2013 - 7:57 pm

    7 Feb, 2013 – 11:42 am

    “The Rockefeller Foundation bankrolled the Women’s Lib movement in the 60s and 70s. Turned out the reason was to increase the tax take by encouraging more women to work and also to weaken the mother-child bond so the state could assume greater control over children.”

    MJ can you back that up with some evidence and references ? Sounds a bit silly to me.

  194. David’s post of 23h47 yesterday on the eminent Oxford and Harvard historian Niall Ferguson was interesting….and surprising in a way.

    Davy’s post did no more than link to an article written for the Guardian’s “Shortcuts” blog by one Jon Henley on 21 August 2012.

    That article was essentially a “story” on a spat centered around an article called “Hit the road, Barack” written by Niall Ferguson which appeared in Newsweek on 19 August 2012. I call it a “story” (“feature” if you prefer) because it made no attempt at anaysis or evaluation but contented itself with saying that Niall Ferguson had written an article critical of President Obama’s record and with listing a number of criticisms of that article made by various people. The article also criticised Ferguson’s rebuttal of one of his critics (Paul Krugmann) by saying that the rebuttal was personal rather than factual. Any reader of Jon Henley’s blog article who wanted to know more about the spat in order to judge for himself would have had to follow other links in order to do such things as read Ferguson’s article, read the text of the criticisms levelled at him and read Ferguson’s rebuttal of Paul Krugman’s criticism. I could imagine that most readers would not have bothered but just accepted the general premise of Henley’s blog article, but I am of course sure that David did bother.

    What would the casual reader have learnt if he had followed up on all of those links and done a little further research? Here are just a couple of things :

    – this spat occurred around the 20th August, ie when the US Presidental election campaign was in full swing;

    – while Ferguson was calling in his article for the Republican candidate to be elected President, all of his critics quoted by Henley happen, quite by chance, to be (passive or active) Democrat supporters;

    – Ferguson’s criticisms of President Obama – essentially, that he had carried out few if any of his pre-election promises – appear to be shared by people on the opposite side of the politicial spectrum to Ferguson, as evidenced for example almost daily on websites such as;

    – the star witness for the prosecution, Paul Krugman, has himself attracted the following comment (source: a reader posts in to the Guardian Blog to comment on Henley’s blog article):

    “To quote a recent article on Krugman’s validity : “Robert Barro, the
    distinguished Harvard economist, noted that Krugman ‘just says whatever
    is convenient for his political argument. He doesn’t behave like an
    economist.’ The New York Times Ombudsman Daniel Okrent observed that
    Paul Krugman has ‘the disturbing habit of shaping, slicing and selectively
    citing numbers in a fashion that pleases his acolytes but leaves him open
    to substantive assaults.’. James Taranto at the Wall Street Journal, after
    listing the falsities in Krugman’s latest piece on climate change, hazarded
    that perhaps ‘Krugman lakes himself ridiculous merely to make our job easy.'”.

    Those criticisms of Krugman don’t sound so different from the criticisms of Ferguson, do they? Which shows that it’s easy to hand it out….

    – Ferguson’s rebuttal of Krugman is anything but ad hominem; it is backed up by facts and reasoned argument and addresses Krugman’s criticisms squarely.


    Now, having given a few pointers to the article so lovingly brought to our attention by Davy, let us look at something rather puzzling.

    Davy is one of the Eminences on Craig’s blog and as such, part of his creed is that the United States (and, therefore, its President) is the repository of most of the evil in the world and can do nothing right.

    Surely, then, Davy should be welcoming (even if a mere 5 months and a bit after it was writeen) an article by the eminent historian Niall Ferguson pointing out that President Obama has kept few if any of his pre-election promises?

    Curiously, though, he doesn’t. On the contrary, he goes out of his way to post, with some satisfaction, a link to a blog article attacking Ferguson’s article.

    How can we explain this seemingly inexplicable action and attitude on Davy’s part?

  195. A review of their 2012 acrivities from the Conservative Friends of Israel.

    Some good photos. One of Hague looking very odd alongside Taub, Boris Johnson in NW London wearing a strange hat and aeveral mentions of the Minister for the Middle East and North Africa, Mr Alistair Burt, and many quotes from Cameron’s speech to their annual dinner.

  196. What will remain of the High Street and what happens to the Post Office service if and when the stores close up?

    One in five major Post Offices to be run from counters in high street shops
    The Post Office is planning to close one in five of its major high street branches and open them as counters in local shops instead, it emerged today.

    Critics warned that services for its millions of customers could suffer, as the Government-owned network said it wants 70 out of its 373 Crown post offices to re-open in private stores.

    The Post Office said it needed to close the branches and re-open them in stores such as WH Smith, Co-op and Budgens because it is losing around £40 million per year.

    But a spokesman promised that a full range of services, which range from dealing with passport applications to handing out pension payments, would still be on offer. She said none of the branches would disappear from their current locations, even if no new operators can be found.

    However, Billy Hayes, general secretary of the Communications Workers union, described the move as a “partial destruction” of the Crown post office network.

    “This move will have a huge impact on the high streets of small towns earmarked to lose their Crown post office,” he said. “These offices provide a dedicated specialist service to communities which will not be replicated by a window or two in a bigger shop.


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