Here are Tim Norman, Patrick Henningsen and myself discussing the Skripal charade, at the Beautiful Days Festival near Exeter. At the start 90% of the audience said they believed the official narrative. At the end 80% had changed their mind.
I am particularly proud of this because we were comparatively close to Salisbury and it was mostly an apolitical audience of interested locals.
I look like I had been sleeping under a hedge for four days. Well, I more or less had. It was a music festival. In a sense convincing so many people, when I could not have looked less like an authority figure, is still more satisfying.
Tim Norman has a much longer version of his presentation and we shall try to do this together again soon, hopefully actually in Salisbury. Patrick Henningsen is a journalist of great integrity: he has been consistently interested and engaged in this story.
I had plans to make a documentary which were put aside during covid. I might try to run a conditional crowdfunder in a little while, where the money is withheld unless enough is collected to deliver the project.
Attention of course moves on, but the Salisbury lie still features in Starmer’s Russophobic and militaristic rhetoric, and in a sense this story is more important than ever.
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Okay, so where are they?
Are they dead?
Safe and sound, living with Sir Keir’s Ukranian rent boys.
I expect so, unless they were prepared to have an identity change and disappear in return for a pension.
I haven’t watched stroke listened to the video yet, I’m saving it until later for my bedtime viewing, but what would be really good, and I’m sure would reach a lot of people, would be a leaflet of however many pages, say three or four pages, six eight sides, exposing the Salisbury poisonings for the Sham that they were. I can’t remember the percentage now of the top of my head, but if 90% of the audience believed the official narrative at the beginning, a 90% a change their minds by the end, then I’m sure the same would be the case with a leaflet the key thing of course, is at the end of the leaflet in bold, to say please circulate to friends and relatives and work colleagues etc etc.
My apologies, I thought this post would appear at the end of the comments, as they stand, and I really don’t know what happened. So my apologies for pushing in.
PS I should add that the leaflet would be held together with a paper clip so as to make it easy for people to copy or to scan. And apart from the first page with the heading, the pages numbered. And needless to say, I’m sure there are lots of people who would be more than happy to run off a hundred or two or three or four or five hundred copies, and stick them through people’s doors. I know I would!
Thank you Craig for addressing this question, which leaves us with more unanswered questions of course. If the Skripals are now detained in Canada, then perhaps one day they will be freed to speak their truth? The incredible breadth of the multinational cooperation to the official narrative is breathtaking. The fiction starts with the fake chemical weapons white helmets in Syria in 2013, which coincides with the Senate committee presentation by Victoria Nuland, prior to the Maidan in Ukraine, in which she explains the plan to draw Russia into Ukraine by supporting the shelling of the Russian speaking Ukrainian Oblasts. Also central to the whole was the role which Russia had in Syria, to keep the borders secure, along with protecting its gas and oil pipelines which ran parallel to the American owned ones. This was longstanding, on the basis of agreements originally brokered by Kissinger and then renegotiated by Netanyahu with Putin, over the years, to allow the Occupation of the Golan Heights, but Russia was an obstacle to Israel’s expansionist plans and its intentions towards Iran. Victoria Nuland stated that the plan for Ukraine was an unwinnable war which would deplete Russian manpower and resources and take them away from the Middle East. She said she regretted the ‘sacrifice of the Ukrainian people’ and when asked whether the war might spill over into Europe, replied ‘Fuck Europe’. So why are we getting so ensnared in this colonial enterprise, rather than making an effort to manage our own in-house predicaments?
It would have been Kissinger who was the architect of the whole, if he was still alive, so who is the architect now? I sometimes wonder if Kissinger is still alive, hooked up to a constant supply of the blood of young virgins…
Interesting. What is your source for the Nuland presentation? Correct me if I am wrong but it doesn’t sound like something in the public domain.
I was confident for a long time that Bernie’s Facebook page shared the footage, but doubt has been sown and now I think it might have been Democracy Now, that shared it many years ago. Anyway I watched it and those few phrases I have quoted stayed with me. She has similarly stated ‘Fuck the EU’ in a different clip somewhere else. Anyway the allies are all toeing the line, no matter how far fetched the narrative is stretched.
Craig has nailed some key individuals in this interview, connecting them across controversial events where state actors must be shielded from ethical investigation.
“She has similarly stated ‘Fuck the EU’ in a different clip somewhere else.”
=========
At first I thought you were mistakenly referring to that incident, which is well attested.
In 2013, Viktor Yanukovic was still President of Ukraine. He was toppled in 2014 when Nuland’s later Anglo- Saxonism gained notoriety.
Could “the shelling of the Russian speaking Ukrainian Oblasts” be openly proposed before his overthrow and exile?
.
Okay Cynicus, she probably didn’t say ‘shelling’. I have watched too many YouTube clips of people being shelled waiting at bus stops, and voiceovers translated as saying that no Russian speaking child would ever go to school, they must all cower in cellars, and infrastructure funding stopped, so that was the reality of it, but US funding of the neo Nazis was stopped by Trump in 2018 when he declared it was an internal matter for Ukraine. And the overthrow of the Russia leaning democratically elected government was defined in her presentation in 2013 with the intention of drawing Russia in, to defend the Russian speakers.
The reality of that was of course different. When Russian troops went in quietly in small groups, to town halls and funded some stuff for some people in eastern Ukraine, they were welcomed. When Russian forces went in raping women and children and shooting men, the Russian soldiers claimed they were all Ukrainians to them, and Putin, I watched, promised lots of beautiful Ukrainian women to men who signed up as volunteers.
Russian soldiers in WWII were the worst for raping, and were positively encouraged to do so. Germans shot their rapists. Rogue soldiers behaved badly but the Brits never thought normal people would do such a thing, and anyway they got bromide in their tea…
“And the overthrow of the Russia leaning democratically elected government was defined in her presentation in 2013 with the intention of drawing Russia in, to defend the Russian speakers.”
==========
Thank you for getting back. It would still be good to have a source for the Nuland /2013 claims (shelling apart!) that NickB requested above.
Mm… Kissinger…
From today’s Japan Times: “ Long rumored to be preoccupied with their health and longevity, two of the world’s most powerful autocrats, Chinese President Xi Jinping and Russian President Vladimir Putin, were caught in a hot mic moment Wednesday ahead of a military parade in Beijing as they spoke of organ transplants and achieving immortality.
The remarks, intended to be private but captured on a livestream of the event, came as Putin and Xi, both 72 years old, climbed the stairs to a platform overlooking Tiananmen Square in the heart of the Chinese capital to watch the parade.
“As biotechnology develops, people can keep replacing their organs through transplantation and keep getting younger, even achieve immortality,” Putin, whose words were translated into Chinese via an interpreter, told Xi. Putin’s original remarks could not be heard clearly.
“There are estimates that humans can live up to 150 years old during this century,” Xi responded.
North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, who was walking alongside Xi and Putin, appeared to listen carefully to the exchange with great interest.
The hot mic moment was captured live by broadcasters worldwide. Part of the exchange was also broadcast by China’s state-run CGTN television network, though Xi’s response was overshadowed by the anchor’s voice.”
Most likely. “Dead men (and women) tell no tales”.
And besides – they’re only Russians.
In this ‘day and age’ it is impossible to dissappear. Everyone is constantly plumbed into the Internet and there is always someone ready to talk. The only logical conclusion is they are dead, murdered by the UK regime. This can easily be disproved, but to date …
If such lack of secrecy really were the case then noone would be able to cheat on their spouse any more, however there is no indication that this particular form of behaviour has been discontinued. In reality, it is as easy as ever to set up a second identity, if not easier.
Your example isn’t comparing like with like though is it ?
Your spouse is not well known, AFAIK, but the Skripals are.
Also, the Skripals ‘dissappeared’ seven years ago, could your spouse have a secret affair over seven years without some suspicions ?
Just saying …
“could your spouse have a secret affair over seven years without some suspicions ?”
Plenty of people seem to manage to “carry on” for years without being found out.
The point is that giving people new identities is something that the secret services do for a living and they have access to all the facilities for doing so. They’ve had centuries to work out ways of producing ones that stand up to even close scrutiny. How else would they be able to run teams of spies at home and abroad? With spies, they have to worry about foreign security services trying to find them, unlike with the Skripals, where they are only up against Joe Public.
“At the start 90% of the audience said they believed the official narrative. At the end 80% had changed their mind.”
No wonder they banged you up.
Bayard.
For your information Craig Murray was wrongly imprisoned – not for identifying people in a jigsaw fashion, he didn’t identify them, (several MSM reporters DID identify them and were not banged up) but for reporting on the charade that was the fit up of the late great Alex Salmond, and the kangaroo court process that would’ve wrongly imprisoned Alex Salmond if he didn’t have a jury, a jury I might add made up of mainly women.
Craig Murray didn’t have the luxury of a jury – that was denied to him, nor was he allowed to present all the evidence in his defence, his “conviction” was nothing short of a farce.
So next time think – before you bladder out nonsense.
I think you completely misunderstood my comment.
Bayard: “I think you completely misunderstood my comment.”
=========
I think you are being more than completely generous!
Not really, just puzzled. I thought it was obvious what I was saying, that Craig was banged up because he makes a habit of convincing people that the official narrative, in this and other cases, is a load of bollocks.
It would be amazing to do this in Salisbury itself.
The role played by the chief nurse of the British army is a powerful persuader, I think – capable of getting an attention spike from many Official Story Believers. Possibly more so even than Exercise Toxic Dagger.
In a similar vein, I want to remind people how healthy it is to get out to festivals or even the pub and talk to other humans.
I randomly got chatting to 2 students in my local pub visiting from Salisbury, and they shared the general disbelief their community showed at the time to the official government narrative. They also mentioned this incident, about 1 year after the Skripal event, another false flag you could say!
Someone had procured a exceptionally large Russian flag (10m x 7m, difficult to source I imagine), climbing scaffold in an area where cameras were present, and placed it prominently beside the cathedral. No culprit was ever identified.
Certainly the kind of “joke” that Army insiders would appreciate amongst themselves.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-wiltshire-47270827
“MI5 Go Mad in Salisbury” by Enit Blytie with Foreward by Porten Down
Poor Noddy’s little car had to be buried in a landfill site near Cheltenham, but this presented absolutely no danger to the public.
Having seen the Youtube video of the ‘rebel tent’ event, I took seriously the report of the doctor’s testimony and it led me to think of an alternative hypothesis. There may have been a third agent who has never been found, call that party Agent 3, who did the spraying which Julia signalled about to the doctor by blinking. Agents 1 and 2 were the GRU men, assistants who carried gear, contaminated the Skripal’s doorhandle as a diversion, with gloved hands (and promptly discarded the equipment). The box which was supposed to have been sealed by a heating device in a toilet was actually a new spare set of kit that wasn’t used, and just dumped.
I’m not convinced that the GRU men were innocent tourists, and I believe the government are right to deal firmly with what they believe to be Russian state terrorism.
OK, that takes care of one discrepancy, just nineteen more odd to go and the story might just be plausible if not looked at too closely.
If you choose to believe the foundation of the whole absurd farrago – that the Russian government is somehow champing at the bit to get at and harm British people – there is probably no reasoning with you.
On top of the 50 or so contradictions, impossibilities, etc. mentioned by others, there is simply no reason why Russia would want to do such things. As Mr Putin himself said in a brief comment long ago, Skripal himself was a despicable creature who betrayed his country for money. (Admittedly at a time when, thanks to Western machinations, Russia was falling apart and many were dying of starvation). Skripal served a prison sentence in Russia and was then exchanged. Living in retirement in England, he was of no possible interest to Russia. We can be certain that, if he had possessed any dangerous information, he would not have been allowed to leave Russia.
To my mind, the most astonishing and frightening aspect of the whole business is the contempt with which our own government regards us – the citizens of the UK. It issues a stream of ridiculous nonsense that would not deceive a child; and the people lap it up.
Skripal may have been allowed to leave Russia because exchanging him for a Russian spy held in the West was expedient at the time. He could have been attacked both to send a message about traitors, and to prevent him revealing anything he knew about the black market in metals.
As for chomping on the bit, look at Crimea and Ukraine. The Baltic States could be next. The Western world is in a perilous position, with the possibility of its leader, the President of the United States, being compromised. Hopefully Providence will preserve Democracy, and prevent the realisation of the novel by Sinclair Lewis It couldn’t happen here, of which an excellent BBC radio adaptation is here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0023pbn
“As for chomping on the bit, look at Crimea and Ukraine. The Baltic States could be next.”
Why would they be next? The UK invaded Iraq. Why did it not go on to invade Israel and Egypt and re-establish its Empire in the Middle East? It it,perhaps that the British didn’t do it, because they are jolly decent chaps whereas the Russians are savages from the steppes?
Besides, your argument is completely circular. Russia invaded Ukraine because it wants to re-establish the USSR, and we know Russia wants to re-establish the USSR because it invaded Ukraine.
I don’t see any circularity at all. Putin’s will to create a latter-day Russian empire has become evident to us because of his invasions. His motive leading to actions on the one hand (your first clause), and our coming to knowledge of it (the second), are two different things.
If the only reason for an invasion is to re-establish a former empire, why was the UK’s invasion of Iraq not a similar attempt?
Who says that British people did lap up the narrative? The mainstream media, presumably, who trolled, closed or heavily censored forums of comment, and either hid behind the tame pollsters they themselves commissioned or invoked legal issues. It’s always the same combination of tactics when the British state is ‘up to something’.
John Helmer has just published a book called Long Live Novichok. He has lived and reported from Russia since 1989. I haven’t read the book but I do listen to Helmer’s analyses when they come up on YouTube and find them very interesting.
I strongly recommend anything by Mr Helmer. His blog “Dances with Wolves” is essential reading, along with Andre Martyanov’s “Reminiscence of the Future”. They complement (and from time to time compliment) one another, as Mr Martyanov is a military expert while Mr Helmer focuses on politics.
They are both ruthlessly honest, which can get a lot people’s backs up. Not unlike Mr Murray.
BTW, John Helmer’s blog is called “Dances with Bears”, to save anyone else spending too much time looking for it.
Apologies to all.
Good heavens, I’m amazed that 90% of your audience actually believed the “official” narrative and that 10% refused to convert. It was blatantly a farrago of deceit and contradictions from the outset, the sheer incompetence of the script writing becoming ever clearer as new incidents surfaced over time, e.g. the protocol evasions during the OPCW “investigation”. But more than anything else, the total harmony of the mighty MSM wurlitzer gave it away, an orchestral production familiar from the Corbyn smear campaign.
Thank you for the analysis of a watershed moment in the decline and fall of British democracy. A cautionary tale for anyone hoping to understand deep state performative art in future.
Yes indeed! I find it terrifying that so many intelligent, well educated, well-meaning people of my acquaintance simply believe what they read in the media without ever applying what they should have learned at school and university (if their native common sense didn’t suffice). Probably because they remain completely oblivious of the Web and the alternate media – like this blog.
A few pertinent thoughts:
“Never believe anything until it has been officially denied”.
– Claud Cockburn (1904 – 1981)
“If something goes wrong with the government, a free press will ferret it out and it will get fixed. But if something goes wrong with our free press, the country will go straight to hell”.
– I. F. Stone (as reported by his son Dr Jeremy J Stone)
“Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray’s case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward—reversing cause and effect. I call these the “wet streets cause rain” stories. Paper’s full of them. In any case, you read with exasperation or amusement the multiple errors in a story, and then turn the page to national or international affairs, and read as if the rest of the newspaper was somehow more accurate about Palestine than the baloney you just read. You turn the page, and forget what you know”.
– Michael Crichton, “Why Speculate?” http://larvatus.com/michael-crichton-why-speculate/ (In my case it was Caspar Weinberger claiming on radio that a VAX 11/782 was to a VAX 11/780 as a 16-inch naval gun to a Colt 45)
“Gentlemen, you are now about to embark on a course of studies which will occupy you for two years. Together, they form a noble adventure. But I would like to remind you of an important point. Nothing that you will learn in the course of your studies will be of the slightest possible use to you in after life, save only this, that if you work hard and intelligently you should be able to detect when a man is talking rot, and that, in my view, is the main, if not the sole, purpose of education”.
– John Alexander Smith, Professor of Moral Philosophy, Oxford University, 1914.
Thinking is hard, believing is easy
I think there are a lot of denialists around, who are too shy to argue their case, so instead they simply state their beliefs and run away.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/forums/topic/climate-change-denialists-who-get-all-shy/
Sadly, there are a lot of bigots around who are too convinced of their own rightness to argue their case, so instead they just pontificate about their beliefs and refuse to answer any points to the contrary.
Haven’t seen any of those on the shy denialists thread, Bayard. Have you even looked there, or is this another assumption?
I – for one – would be absolutely delighted to learn that everything is fine, and there’s nothing to be too concerned about on that particular front.
I don’t need to look there, the word “denialists” says it all. It’s like referring to the defendant as “the criminal”.
OK, so you’ve formed these views, unkindly characterising other posters, and stating how they behave – based on assumptions, and nothing but. And that’s how you arrive at your conclusions.
My own observation is that 100% of people claiming here that climate change is a hoax, scam, etc. won’t back up these claims. Instead, they make unfounded claims about bad faith, and will not discuss what they and you have spontaneously raised.
You keep proving this over and over. It’s bad faith.
“OK, so you’ve formed these views, unkindly characterising other posters, and stating how they behave – based on assumptions, and nothing but.”
The title to your discussion forum is not an assumption, nor is it one to state how other commenters behave when that is exactly how they do in the comments to this very blog, whereas wrongly stating that people who disagree with you are “too shy to discuss it”. As for “unkindly characterising other posters”, it has not been me who suggested that other commenters are shills for big business, nor has it been me that continually, but wrongly states that people who disagree with me are “too shy to discuss it”. I am quite happy to point out why the whole AGW theory is wrong, but not on here, because you insist on rudely riding your hobby-horse through discussions that have nothing to do with it, like this one, and such discussions get, quite rightly, shut down by the mods, nor on your cyber equivalent of the Spanish Inquisiton.
That’s a lot of words to duck out of discussing the assertions you have made, yet again.
I could have been a lot less diplomatic than attributing this, ahem ‘reluctance’, to shyness.
So now I’m the “…cyber equivalent of the Spanish Inquisiton [sic]” ?
Hysterical stuff, Bayard. Increasingly desperate, too.
OK @Mods, please could you give me leave to go OT to try and put an end to this harassment, or inform my harasser that this is not possible on this blog.
Please don’t continue this off-topic exchange here. Off-topic issues should be posted in the discussion forum.
If you would rather not contribute to a forum thread that has a prejudiced title, then you’re welcome to start your own thread with your own choice of title – allowing you to define the relevant topic for that thread. Just navigate to the index page of the discussion forum, and post your new topic using the boxes under the index list.
glenn_nl, In case it’s only visible to me, mods@cm_org have asked me “Please don’t continue this off-topic exchange here. Off-topic issues should be posted in the discussion forum.” I have explained why I do not wish to post on or enter a forum whose very title brands me a fantasist or shill before I’ve even gone there, so could you please stop impugning my motives for not doing so. I’m tempted to start my own forum entitled “Climate change nutters who get all offended when told they are talking bollocks”, but I somehow think that no-one would post on it.
This is true.
Moreover, thinking is dangerous; believing is safe. Usually.
Not in this case, Tom. Fantastical beliefs (eg climate change denialism) are a huge danger, because they – you – grant licence to governments to ignore this massive problem, or provide lip-service and token gestures at best.
“Fantastical beliefs (eg climate change denialism) are a huge danger, because they – you – grant licence to governments to ignore this massive problem, or provide lip-service and token gestures at best.”
Only believe, and you will be saved! – now, where have I heard that before?
For two or three years after the Skripal hospitalisation Salisbury resident Rob Slane, with the help of a team of active commenters, ran a sustained and well-informed campaign against the official Skripal story on his blog ‘theblogmire.com’. Eventually Slane declared he had done all he could do, retired from the fray and closed his blog down. I don’t know whether its contents might be still be available on the wayback machine.
However some of Slane’s arguments and conclusions are still accessible elsewhere on the internet, for instance at https://ronpaulinstitute.org/the-salisbury-poisonings-two-years-on-a-riddle-wrapped-in-a-cover-up-inside-a-hoax/
Rob Slane, as I remember an exemplary Christian of the kind who does so much to recommend his religion, kept beavering away, piling up more and more evidence long after more cynical people like me had satisfied themselves that it was all a pack of government lies. I think he accumulated the most comprehensive collection of evidence that I know of anywhere.
Mind you, for sheer concentrated persuasiveness and conviction, I don’t think anyone has rivalled our genial host’s relatively brief contribution:
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/07/wheel-out-the-skripal-story-again/
The map, with the caption “I am all out of ideas Inspector. What can possibly be the source of these mysterious poisonings?” seems to me to bring the house down all on its own. I am still chortling over it 7 years later.
I agree Rob did a lot of brilliant work on Skripal. However I did find him very defensive and quite rude when I queried a couple of things, can’t remember exactly what, and the blog has gone. I think you obviously need to be quite assertive in the face of the inevitable push back on this stuff, but as also a christian I feel a bit of humility also helps.
Rob Slane scores above everyone else on the Skripals charade, he wasn’t rude or defensive, Baron never found him so, if he was any of it, it was because he couldn’t stand idiots, can anyone?
The most comprehensive collection of evidence concerning the events that took place in Salisbury & Amesbury in 2018 can be found on the official Dawn Sturgess Inquiry website, Tom:
https://www.dawnsturgess.independent-inquiry.uk/
Whilst I haven’t trawled through every single document on there, I did make extensive use of it to write my report around six months ago, which can be found here:
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/forums/topic/the-salisbury-poisonings-episode-was-all-staged/page/6/#post-103404
I’ve never met him or read his book, but I’m still of the opinion that Rob Slane does more to put people off Christianity than to recommend it (as they say, you tend to catch more flies with honey than vinegar*) – but he did do plenty of good work on the Skripal saga, and I credit him for it in my report.
* I don’t want to catch any flies. I’m not a spider.
Coldish, the Blogmire archive is here:
https://web.archive.org/web/20231027035957/https:/www.theblogmire.com/category/skripal-case/
Thank you, Brendan
I like to think Skripal and his daughter are alive and well anf living in Russia. Otherwise why aren’t the Russians banging on about their missing citizens?
They know whom they are dealing with, and are not given to wasting their breath. They care nothing for the UK or for Sergei Skripal, and can do nothing for Yulia.
They are, frequently.
His daughter may not be in Russia, Johnny, the old man is, if he wasn’t the Russians would have served habeas corpus, they didn’t, prevented the family doing it, if the West were to have him someone would have already recorded an interview with him, and thirdly, on March 30, the Metropolitan police plus searched an Aeroflot flight at a London airport with a canine, the pilot objected to no avail, it took the dog few minutes to stop at a seat after which the party left (google for it).
” So anyway, then they went to a public toilet together and they took apart their fake perfume bottle and put it into a gift box which they wrapped in plastic and sealed up using a portable heat sealer. No, I’m not clicking. And there you go. There’s your portable heat sealer. Uh, and then they dropped their carefully sealed package in a bin ”
That’s just pure invention. There’s no evidence and it’s more likely that the perfume bottle was there as a back up, a Plan B if you will, that wasn’t needed so the two amateurish agents dumped it who knows where because Charlie Rowley can’t remember.
The audience must’ve been susceptible to the conspiracy theory otherwise they wouldn’t have been there in the first place. Browbeat such people for an hour, even with fantasies such as the above, and they will have their minds changed. More an experiment in psychology than a comment on the veracity of the theory.
The heat sealer story was the official narrative at the public inquiry, so if it is an invention it is the authorities who invented it.
It was suggested but the police admitted that they were unlikely to ever know for sure – they remain open to the possibility that the bottle Mr Rowley found was sealed because it was in fact a spare the agents carried.
So not part of the ‘official narrative’ at all; except as a straw man for conspiracists.
Although it’s not that far fetched.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vicloon-Portable-Handheld-Sealing-Machine/dp/B0BFFFGYSY
It might of course have been a Plan A that for whatever reason they were unable to carry out, disguising the toxin in a perfume bottle might suggest Yulia was the principle target. We still have no idea what she might’ve been doing.
The fact that there are so many loose ends is evidence that this is not a ‘false flag’. Had this been planned everything would’ve been left neat and tidy, nobody would think to create so many unanswered questions.
Nonsense. They know the mainstream media is not going to go looking for lacunae.
Pears Morgaine – “The fact that there are so many loose ends is evidence that this is not a ‘false flag’. Had this been planned everything would’ve been left neat and tidy…”
…but we don’t know whose operation the UK was desperately trying to pin on {bogeyman}”Putin”{/bogeyman}. The desperation is clear to see but the (presumably impossibly demanding) constraints are not. Covering up / reinforcing the narrative / scrambling evidence etc. on behalf of an “ally” is Standard Operating Procedure; just look at the USS Liberty affair, or the post-2001 torture-for-false-confessions industry.
pears Morgaine.
Off to a bad defence I’m afraid.
Used to go on Rob Slane’s Blog and it was made up of many people who actually lived in Salisbury
not just pundits.
If you don’t believe Craig or Rob cast your mind back to Charlie’s ‘ Exclusive ‘ in The Daily Mirror.
Charlie said that the perfume bottle was sealed in thick shrink wrap.
He had to cut it with a knife ( maybe a pen knife) and ‘assemble ‘ the nozzle to the bottle.
It was said that ‘ Bin Dippers ‘ often target Charity Shops but according to some people on
Rob Slane’s site charity bins have something similar to chocolate machine.
You can’t just stick your hand down and grab something.
They accept donated items in this way.
People put items in down a chute – once down that chute you can’t reach the items.
Otherwise the Charity Shops would have nothing or to sell the Bin Dippers get it.
As I say off to a terrible start.
I’ll watch the video later but, unlike the Government I have a very good memory.
Theoretically, I would make a very good liar.
Whereas the tale of this May led debacle lies in having a bad memory and useless
to absolute incompetent Foreign Office and Spook Services.
Dragging the Military into it only made the lies worse.
Can’t blame the Local Plod though – they were moved out of the picture within a day or two.
No Crimewatch programme neither.
I wonder why?
According to the Dawn Sturgess Inquiry, Mark, the bin at the back of the charity shop was an ordinary dumpster-type one with a simple lid, the contents of which were regularly plundered by people towards the lower end of the socio-economic scale.
What I always found inconceivable is that it took the chemical weapons experts three weeks to discover the novichok on the doorknob.
In the real world thats the first thing they would have checked before entering the house. And done that on day one after they arrived in Salisbury.
I posted the above as a reply to Vivian, the last comment in the comments section at the time, but it somehow ended up here. The same happened to my earlier post, and it ended up somewhere completely different to where I posted it???
It’s possible that they wanted to first make sure that Yulia would not wake up and say something that proved that the door hand story was impossible. To do that, they had to wait until the OPCW inspectors had gone (and were unable to interfere with the questioning of Yulia) before they took her out of a coma (they had actually done that much earlier – only four days after the poisoning – when she was conscious and able to move her hands and eyes, but they quickly put her under sedation again).
“Had this been planned everything would’ve been left neat and tidy, nobody would think to create so many unanswered questions.”
You mean just like in Dallas, November 1963…?
Or NY on Sept 11th 2001 !!
If the bottle that was allegedly found by Rowley was not the bottle that was used to supposedly contaminate Skripal’s front door, why would you imagine it was a back-up? What evidence is there that a bottle disguised as a perfume bottle was used at all? Why couldn’t the container used to contaminate Skripal’s door be, shall we say, a specially-adapted umbrella designed to squirt “novichok” out of the end like a water-pistol, or something equally exotic and absurd? https://x.com/timtron2020/status/1961154540931010569
Keith Asman, head of forensics and digital investigations for the police’s south-east region counter-terrorism unit, told the Dawn Sturgess inquiry: “I believe that they used it [the bottle of novichok disguised as perfume], I believe they dismantled it, I believe they placed it into the plastic packaging and then, using a portable heat sealer, sealed some of the component parts of the device into plastic packaging, which then went into the box.” You can watch this here, and observe Jason Beer KC grinning in the background as Asman says it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXjzA31qmuQ&t=6141s
Commander Dominic Murphy, head of the Metropolitan Police Counter-Terrorism Command and one of the main witnesses to give testimony to the inquiry said that he had a “strong assessment” that the bottle that was found in Amesbury was the actual weapon used to contaminate Skripal’s door, and confirmed to Adam Straw KC his view that “the bottle found in Amesbury is almost certainly the same as the bottle used to apply poison to the door handle of 47 Christie Miller Road.”
See p161 of the transcript pdf here: https://dsiweb-prod.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/uploads/Day-20-20-November-2024.pdf
4th March – 30th June 2018. Nearly four months, 118 days. As our host says, total BS
” I believe they dismantled it, I believe they placed it into the plastic packaging and then, using a portable heat sealer, sealed some of the component parts of the device into plastic packaging, which then went into the box ”
Then goes on to admit that there’s NO forensic evidence to support this theory.
That is why I also cited the testimony of Commander Dominic Murphy. The theory was also accepted and developed by Andrew O’Connor KC, the inquiry’s lead barrister. You suggested my remarks were “pure invention” and a “straw man for conspiracists”. The point I making is that the “heat sealer” theory was advanced by the police’s head of forensics, the head of the met’s counter-terrorism command, and by the inquiry’s lead barrister — among others. It was not called into question at the inquiry by anyone.
It wasn’t only theory though, you’ve tried to make it sound absurd and deliberately not mentioned the other possibility. It’s not supported by any evidence so it is ‘pure invention’; whoever invented it.
I find it interesting that Mr Murray emphasises the uncertainty due to the fact that “in the spy world” there is so much lying.
Surely that is true of “the government world” in general. As the facts discussed in this video bear out.
And if you believe this, let me tell you this little story about Dr. David Kelly …
>Patrick Henningsen is a journalist of great integrity:
Maybe, but he is also a climate change denying crackpot, which is unfortunate if one is arguing ad hominem for the credibility of what he says about the Skripal case. (I agree that the official narrative on this case is absurd FWIW). It disturbs me the alignment of otherwise intelligent people on scientific narratives according to whether or not they are part of a mainstream “policy agenda” rather than also a reasonable assessment of cumulative evidence. Here he is jumping on the now obviously false (if you believe instrumental data has any value over ideology) “pause in warming” bangwagon:
https://www.laprogressive.com/climate-change/so-what-happened-to-global-warming.
In my book, his views on climate increases his credibility, he obviously believes in factual science as opposed to consensus science.
A consensus couldn’t melt a kilo of ice, let alone half the Arctic. Please attend the appropriate forum, Climate Change Denialists (who get all shy).
Can you really not see that that forum title implies “Come here and be told why you are bad and wrong”?
OK, start your own forum thread, as the site team suggested above. Or use ET’s older thread. But please engage rather than merely insinuating blind belief.
The views you reference have been amply debunked evidentially and scientifically. I will not respond further just because this (climate “scepticism”) will detract from the proper topic of the thread.
SB won’t follow this up, Nick, he – like every other ‘sceptic’ (ie denialist) – will get all shy and slink off.
– “It disturbs me the alignment of otherwise intelligent people on scientific narratives according to whether or not they are part of a mainstream “policy agenda” rather than also a reasonable assessment of cumulative evidence.”
Well put. It is dividing the two most powerful protest / civil resistance campaigns.
These expert-in-their-field climate apostates ( well , Climate Apocalypse is more akin to a religion than anything else , n’est pas ? ) don’t appear at all shy
I agree this is not the thread to go into the subject , but , / CUT /
___
[ MOD: Glad you agree. No ‘buts’ neccessary. If you want to discuss this, kindly make use of the forum topic indicated. ]
Fair enough , MOD . Not sure how to ” make use of the forum topic indicated ” though . BTW ….do comments that have been MODded , like mine , above , remain visible for other readers ?
While not wishing to, ahem, speak on behalf of the mods here (indeed, I have received a suspension of a month myself in the past), I might be able to help you out.
Clark – above – provided a link, here it is in full:
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/forums/topic/climate-change-denialists-who-get-all-shy/
That is undoubtedly what the mod was referring to.
As for your second question, if your comment doesn’t have “Your comments are awaiting moderation” or some-such at the top of it, it is visible to all.
Hi Glenn – thanks for that , I actually clicked on Clark’s link prior to making my own comment but never realised that was what MOD was referring to . Probably won’t bother repeating what I said : the moment has passed
Thanks also for your advice on correct use of punctuation marks ; taken in the spirit intended .
“But” you could not resist. Religions don’t work with data, explain phenomena, measure things etc etc. What field are you expert in, since you slander the climatologists?
That’s a bit disingenuous – asking me a question like that – when you can see the subject has been , well …..proscribed , from this thread anyway .
“disingenuous” how? you said it is off topic then proceeded. let’s take it to the suggested thread – you can explain your expertise there.
The Sloop NickB . Are you suggesting we ” go outside ” , for, in Glesga parlance , a ” square go ” ?
Did I claim to have expertise ? Had my original post stood, you would have seen that I didn’t . You would also have seen that, like most sensible people, I’m in no way a C.C ” denier . We’ll leave it there
The moment has now passed and TBH I can’t be arsed getting into the subject with you or anyone else . It always comes down to claims v counterclaims on forums like this,and nothing profitable is gained . Ultimately,the truth will out .
Outside the school gates at 4.30 ok? Nae kickin’ n nae chibs, right?
BTW is it true yr Da sells Avon?
No, I was merely suggesting we take discussion of your likening of climate scientists raising the alarm to devout religious believers, and which was not removed by the mods, to the appropriate thread. Since you (therefore, it seems) claim to know better than them, I am curious what your expertise is that justifies your apparent assertion.
You seem determined to keep on about this when I’ve already told you I’m no longer interested in talking about it here .
Are you keen to display your ( imagined ) superior insight on the subject and have an opportunity to use those equally imaginary argument-winning coup de grâce, eg Conspiracy Theorist/Climate Change Denier/Flat Earther?
Or , as I suspect , trying to deflect from the fact your da does,indeed, sell Avon?
It’s cool,Nick.Nothing to be ashamed of.; you should be proud of your father for subverting gender norms and enlightening more men of the advisability of daily skin-moisturising 🙂
Whatever. If you have something to say on the subject let’s discuss it over there, If not why make a statement on it you are not prepared to defend?
NickB: “..why make a statement on it you are not prepared to defend?”
Because they get all shy, Nick. 100% of them. They summon up the courage to simply assert their beliefs, and then courage fails them and they have to run away. Kind of a drive-by, or a hit-and-run. They’re simply too shy to stick around.
“NickB: “..why make a statement on it you are not prepared to defend?”
Mainly because none of the climate zealots are ever prepared to listen. All they want is a pulpit so that they can tell any sceptic how wrong and bad they are. You only have to look at the title of the “discussion” group to know what sort of reception anyone but a true believer. That’s enough defence before I’m dismissed by the mods.
B: “… none of the climate zealots are ever prepared to listen .”
I’d probably fall under your definition of a ‘zealot’, and I’m prepared to listen, and I know there are others.
So you’re not actually right about that. However, you do appear to be right about quite a lot of things, and I appreciate your contributions in general.
“I’d probably fall under your definition of a ‘zealot’, and I’m prepared to listen, and I know there are others.”
Pardon my scepticism, but in all the times that you have injected this subject, usually completely OT, into post discussions, I cannot remember a single instance where you gave an inch on its core beliefs or acknowledged that there may be grounds for scepticism. However, my memory is not perfect, so perhaps I have missed an occasion.
““But” you could not resist. Religions don’t work with data, explain phenomena, measure things etc etc. What field are you expert in, since you slander the climatologists?”
Religions demand belief in dogma. Dogma often works with data, explains phenomena (usually incorrectly), measures things. It’s still dogma. Those who don’t belief are spurned. True believers feel a need to convert others to their beliefs. Scepticism provokes anger and name-calling. Science,on the other hand, is based on scepticism. Nothing is proven, there is no absolute truth, all there is is theories that have not yet been disproved. To “prove” means to test, not to affirm. The “scientific method” the basis of all science, is to test every theory in order to see if it fails in any way or situation. If it does, then a new theory can be formulated. If it doesn’t, then that doesn’t mean that it is the truth, it simply means that more work is required to look at it. Science is the constant search for data that doen’t fit, that goes against the current theory. If it doesn’t welcome scepticism, it’s not science, it’s something else wearing a white coat, dressed up as science.
B: “…. perhaps I have missed an occasion.”
It’s possible. I am very happy to be proved wrong, because I don’t want to hold wrong positions for starters. In this case, it would be a major relief.
Rather than be so inventive on reasons not to discuss the subject you brought up, why not test your assumptions? We both might be pleasantly surprised. I’ve told you many times that I respect your views. You’re telling me you have no respect based on assumptions.
Bayard, why do you persist in this here when apparently you agree it is not the place for it? Happy to respond to your to me quite unreasonable and indefensible position “over there”.
NickB, you asked: “why do you persist in this here when apparently you agree it is not the place for it?”
I have often wondered that myself. I have no conclusive answer, but I suspect (1) ego, (2) preaching, and (3) demonstrating support for others who share their beliefs. All three motives require the limelight of the most visited thread, so that’s the only place they’ll ever post such stuff.
“Bayard, why do you persist in this here when apparently you agree it is not the place for it?”
I don’t (agree it is not the place for it, that is). I think you are thinking of a different “it”.
“Happy to respond to your to me quite unreasonable and indefensible position “over there”.”
I’m happy too, if you’ll point out where “over there” is, although not if it’s the discussion forum which has a title that brands me a shill or a fantasist before I’ve even got there.
I’ve often wondered why some commenters feel the need to start going on about their beliefs on a post that has nothing to do with those beliefs. I have no conclusive answer, but I suspect (1) ego, (2) preaching, and (3) demonstrating support for others who share their extraordinary popular delusions. All three motives require the limelight of the most visited thread, so that’s the best place to post such stuff.
“It disturbs me the alignment of otherwise intelligent people on scientific narratives according to whether or not they are part of a mainstream “policy agenda” rather than also a reasonable assessment of cumulative evidence.”
What disturbs you may be good, though, however “objective” you think you are.
The word “scientific” is carrying an awful lot of weight in the quoted sentence ^
Not sure what you mean… You can’t mean that It only takes something to be lip serviced by the establishment for it to be false? Choose another word if you do not like “scientific”.
Also believes Hitler escaped to Argentina in 1945 and the laughable UKColumn he’s closely associated with played host to a Holocaust Denier the other week.
Frankly if he told me it was raining I’d go outside and check.
Who’s “he” in this comment?
This whole Skripal episode is a continuation of the demonization of Russia led by the US and supported by its European vassals. Boris Johnson was Foreign Secretary at the time of the Salisbury, so called poisoning. A bigger liar has yet to emerge in UK politics, many of his colleagues acknowledge this. Of course the 51 Intelligence agents who accused Russia of interfering in US elections just before Biden was elected was part and parcel of it. It was not surprising when Boris Johnson went to Kiev shortly after the Ukraine SMO started [2022] and warned Ukraine not to do a deal [one was definitely on offer] or the West would cut off aid and military equipment. Johnson and the UK government are now responsible for 1.7 million dead and injured Ukranian soldiers and the destruction of Ukraine as a viable state. Unfortunately it does not end there, Starmer with his “boots on the ground” is determined to confront Russia, in my opinion this is complete madness which will not end well for the UK or anyone else who want to “defeat” Russia. Russia, quite rightly, regard this as an existential threat, they are right and will take all measures to protect their National interests.
Since 1991 when the Soviet Union was dissolved, and particularly when Putin took over and agreed to be a capitalist society and embraced capitalism, thinking quite rightly that by trading with Europe and the world Russia was in a unique position to do so and profit immensely, it was, it had abundant natural resources the largest county in the world with a land mass covering 11 time zones, oil, Gas, minerals of every description.
The US had other ideas, building on the strategic ideas of Halford Mackinder and later Zbigniew Brzezinski [in his book the Grand Chessboard] who saw the weakness of Russia without ‘the Heartland’ Ukraine, US policy therefore was to incorporate Ukraine into a US sphere of influence via NATO, this policy was disastrously embraced by Joe Biden who thought Russia was so weak it must capitulate to NATO, with the dismissal of Russian security concerns before the war, and the coup in 2014, the build up of Ukrainian forces encouraged by the US making Ukraine a de facto NATO member, all this while asserting “what are you going to do about it”, now we know. Putin admitted to Trump in Anchorage that had he [Trump] been President the war would never have happened.
There is a potential Ukrainian element to the Skripal saga. Sergei Skripal was reportedly still active and apparently had visited Ukraine. Porton Down, near Salisbury, manufactures Biological and Chemical weapons, but only for ‘defence research’ you understand. Ukraine has used chemical/biological weapons against it’s Russian speaking citizens and Russians. It’s maybe a dubious logical link, but who knows ? Maybe Sergei had to be silenced to prevent info on what the UK was up to in Ukraine ! Just saying …
Stevie Boy
I held the theory that Mr Skripal may have been a triple agent.
For the UK – Some other country ? and maybe still Russia whilst he lived in the UK or Ukraine?
The question for the UK is:
Who paid for his house and his living expenses in the UK?
As far as I know the Evil Russians surely wouldn’t pay him a pension from
The Russian Betrayer’s Scheme to say his UK Natwest Bank account.
If he was getting paid – who was paying him and what was he being paid for exactly?
Our intrepid journalists in the MSM never asked.
They never do, as we well know.
IMO, without any proof, I’d suggest the british tax payer was paying for Skripal’s accomodation, via MI5/MI6.
Skripal’s security clearance would have allowed the spooks to access his bank accounts, therefore, there would be no secret funds, he was constantly monitored. That would have been one of Pablo Miller’s tasks.
It was never going to happen that the US Navy would sail into Sevastopol, which was clearly what US strategy loons were aiming for, long term, when they sent warships into the Black Sea in 2014 ostensibly case they “needed to evacuate their athletes” from Sochi. Their West Point-trained finest can put down their Clausewitz – they’re all fart and no follow-through.
“Boris Johnson was Foreign Secretary at the time of the Salisbury, so called poisoning.”
My theory at the time, and I haven’t seen anything that makes me doubt it, was that the “disposal” of the Skripals was supposed to be a low-key affair carried out by the British security services, but that Boris found out and thought it would be an excellent opportunity to indulge in a bit of Russophobia, Skripal pere having been a British spy in Russia. Then the shit hit the fan and a cover story had to be invented PDQ to back up Boris’s assertions. This turned out to have more holes in it than a Swiss cheese, so further stories needed to be produced to try and cover them up and the whole thing snowballed from there.
Harry Law
August 29, 2025 at 13:12
That figure of ” 1.7 million dead and injured Ukranian soldiers ” is very high. Is there a source?
Do you have a corresponding figure for dead and injured Russian soldiers?
The Ukrainians died defending their country.
In your opinion, for what cause did Russian troops die?
Hello ‘JK redux’, been a while, hope you are well.
Just to barge in and speak to one part of your query above.
I believe this is where the numbers of Ukrainian casualties originate.
It seems from their own hacked database.
Compelling I would say.
I quote :
‘ @ArmchairW
2h
When Russian hackers announced on August 20th that they’d extracted the AFU’s casualty database and discovered a total of 1.7 million Ukrainian personnel killed and missing, brOSINT rushed to criticize the claim as “absurd.”
It’s actually confirmed by the Ukrainians’ own data.⬇️
First of all, this is a combined database of Ukrainian personnel killed and missing in action, so the claim here isn’t actually that the Ukrainians have taken 1.7 million KIA. Given known desertion and POW figures their count of personnel actually killed in action would be closer to 1.4 million. All well and good, AW, you say, but how is this substantiated by Ukrainian admissions?
Well – and as I pointed out myself only a week prior to this leak – the Ukrainian National Institute for Strategic Studies disclosed that there had been no fewer than 120,000 wartime amputations in Ukraine as of early 2025. In war there are generally several personnel killed in action for every amputation case – in Vietnam it was 9:1, in the War on Terror closer to 4:1 thanks to excellent medical evacuation and trauma care. Given the AFU’s near-total lack of aerial MEDEVAC and cavalier attitude towards its own casualties we can expect the AFU ratio to be worse than the US Army’s in Vietnam.
Even a slightly worse ratio – 10:1 – would suggest 1.2M AFU KIA as of the date of the NISS report earlier this year. The Russian hack also suggested that AFU casualties were accelerating dramatically this year as the Russian battlefield superiority of earlier years turned into something more akin to lopsided dominance, so the remaining delta in casualties of some 200-300,000 personnel KIA can be explained simply through the gap in time between the NISS disclosure in early 2025 and the hack in mid-2025.
So, no, there’s nothing at all absurd about this Russian claim. It’s actually quite reasonable and corroborated by other sources of data which can be used to infer the Ukrainians’ total casualties. It’s also quite telling just how weak the debunk attempts are – I saw one straight-face claiming that the Ukrainians are inducting considerably fewer men into their army via desperate and extraordinarily coercive conscription measures than the Russians are via voluntarism in a booming civilian economy.
Sep 1, 2025 · 5:26 PM UTC ‘
https://xcancel.com/ArmchairW/status/1962567671645659251
What do you say about that?
Some interesting comments below that too.
I just came across this as well. Might as well share it here.
Seems as if the numbers are being limitedly hungout by the main belligerents too.
‘@SprinterExpres0
1h
Former US National Security Advisor and ex-Pentagon Intelligence Director Lieutenant General Michael Flynn wrote an interesting post on X/Twitter, in which he directly confirmed the direct losses of the Ukrainian Armed Forces at 1.5 million Ukrainian servicemen:
“Putin does not look isolated here at all!
Honestly, I have no words to describe this losing “war” in Ukraine.
All these brilliant neoconservative and geopolitical advisors pushing Donald Trump to do exactly the opposite of what he should do are leading America into a war we do not need, cannot afford, and that could end very badly for the whole world.
If the European Union wants this mess, let it have it.
Ukraine has already lost more than 1.5 million in the last three years. More killings, more deaths, more expenses, more stubbornness from European leaders will not lead to victory.
America’s team needs to find a way out of this mess very soon. We, the people, are with you. Make the right decision.”
Sep 1, 2025 · 7:30 PM UTC’
https://xcancel.com/SprinterExpres0/status/1962598932397109561
I believe the key to understanding what actually happened is the presence of American developed, non-lethal, BZ, incapacitating chemical weapon in the Executive Summary of the OFPCW report.
The presence of BZ is undisputed. When Sergei Lavrov alerted the world’s attention to it, a British diplomat acknowledged its existence, but dismissed its significance on the grounds that it was present as an Environmental Control Sample.
I would be astonished if BZ was selected by the testing laboratory as a suitable “spike” sample for Novichok. Ideally the “spike” should be as close to the suspected test compound as possible (a known concentration of the test compound itself if possible). BZ ain’t Novichok.
If the BZ isn’t in the Environmental Control Sample, but is in fact in the blood samples (together with Novichok) then this scenario fits the observed situation filmed of the Skripal’s on the park bench. It also fits the testimonial of the Salisbury doctor which I wasn’t aware of ‘till I watched the video.
First, Sergei and Yulia were incapacitated by BZ. Next, blood samples were taken which were then contaminated purposefully with Novichok (at Porton Down) before being passed onto the OFPCW (there is no complete chain of custody for the blood samples).
In this hypothesis, Sergei has gotten up to mischief, and broken the terms of his asylum agreement. His Handler (Pablo Miller) finds out and tells old Sergei that he better come up with something useful to get back in the good books of MI6. Together they concoct a plot to embarrass Putin via a faux, assassination attempt involving Novichok. Sergei objects that Yulia is living in Russia and can therefore be punished for his actions. Hence Yulia just happening to be around when the plot goes live. Sergei lures Boshirov & Petrov to Salisbury with some pretext to do with freelancing, Intelligence work.
Sergei and Yulia agree to be “Buzzed”, but Yulia is too groggy after two days unconscious in the hospital, not to inadvertently let the doctor know she was sprayed immediately after leaving the pizza place.
Regarding your last point Vivian, if that actually happened, wouldn’t they have rung the police straight away?
If this was an elaborate framing exercise, how naive were the Russian authorities in so quickly plonking those two GRU operatives in front of the cameras on RT TV; having them claim they were mere tourists? If framed, the Russian authorities fell right into the trap prepared for them. You can bet our intel agencies couldn’t believe their luck as they mumbled nervously, about admiring Salisbury Cathedral, and how it had the tallest spire in the UK.
Perfectly possible they were enticed to come here on the promise of new intel, or maybe , if traitors, a promise of a similar deal Skripal himself received for betraying his country? Russia can’t change the RT TV ‘tourist’ story now however, even if they were framed and the Novichok – a scary sounding Soviet-era chemical weapon – was a sensational, international news headline grabbing, embellishment in support of the UK Govt’s calls for EU sanctions they were pushing in Europe, at that time.
The RT interview was actually six months after the Salisbury events (13 Sept 2018). Had they really been secret agents from the feared GRU (as if secret agents go on TV: we wouldn’t expect to see Mark Urban interviewing Pablo Miller about being Skripal’s handler on BBC Newsnight, would we) all they would have had to have done is ask RT editor-in-chief Margarita Simonyan what questions she was going to ask them before going on air, in order to prepare their responses.
Was it that long after, I didn’t realise. Probably because the story was still very much in the news, as the UK sought to persuade other EU leaders of the need for harsh sanctions.
The photographic evidence, that seems to prove one of them was a highly-decorated GRU colonel called Anatoliy Vladimirovich Chepiga, is fairly conclusive. If it’s an elaborate plot to frame these individuals, all this supporting evidence will have been meticulously prepared in advance. Nothing left to random chance, because the international and reputational stakes are so high, for all involved.
Russia lies… a lot, complicating matters. The UK gets around awkward questions with the blanket response of we can neither confirm nor deny . Sometimes, telling the truth is the best option. And if the novichok is a fictional addition, to sex-up this story, telling the truth would have been the best option for Russia. Take away the novichok and it becomes a rather dull story about spooks playing entrapment games with adversaries.
I don’t personally think it was that elaborate. Everyone lies in this kind of business, as Craig said in the presentation. To my mind the whole affair reeks of incompetence, whatever way you look at it. If you believe the UK’s narrative, it’s a tale of incompetent Russian assassins somehow failing to kill their target with the most deadly nerve agent ever made. If you find the manifold inconsistencies and absurdities in the UK’s narrative make it impossible to believe, you’re left with the impression that the UK’s “narrative managers” are enormously arrogant and incompetent, and rely entirely on the MSM obediently repeating whatever lies they put out without question.
The most obvious, persuasive argument for it being a false flag, is the fact Sergei Skripal was in Russian custody for a long time:
In December 2004, he was arrested by Russia’s Federal Security Service and later tried, convicted of high treason, and sentenced to 13 years in prison…
Had they desired him dead, Russian authorities could have easily carried it out in Russia? Freeing him simply makes no sense.
Simonyan will be a safe pair of hands for sure.
I dug her joky hint that maybe Alex and Rus were gay because they didn’t harass her. This is called taking the piss.
Also IIRC she asked them if they were GRU and one of them shot back fast, “Are you?”
Classic.
The GRU would have spied on Toxic Dagger.
Also who killed Glushkov?
BZ tends to dilate the pupils, Father, whereas multiple witnesses have stated that both Sergei & Yulia had pin-prick pupils. I too have no idea why a lab would use a BZ precursor as a control, but then funny things go on in a lot of science laboratories, trust me.
Fentanyl could do this. Also, it is pretty good for incapacitating.
According to an microbiologist, it’s possible that the Skripals could have been severely incapacitated without suffering long term illness if they were poisoned with a mixture of BZ and nerve agent. That’s because BZ can act as an antidote to nerve agents.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/07/the-silence-of-the-whores/comment-page-7/#comment-774105
Anyone with half-a-brain, knows this British official narrative surrounding the Skripals, Novichok and the Russians in Salisbury is nonsense, from the resealing of the perfume bottle to – one of the top medical officers in the British army – who just happened to stumble upon the Skripals on the park bench, to the supposed Novichok on the door handle of their house, its all a farce, I’m surprised their hasn’t been a movie made about it yet, to try and reinforce the official narrative.
If any toxic substance was present, it was surely brought from Porton Down, as for the Skripals – they’ll never be seen again – killed and then possibly put through a mincer and fed to the pigs.
“Anyone with half-a-brain, knows this British official narrative surrounding the Skripals, Novichok and the Russians in Salisbury is nonsense,…”
There really only are two choices: either everything the government says is true, or it is all false. You can’t cherry-pick bits of it and say that that bit is true, because the obvious rejoinder is, if that other bit is therefore lies, why did the government lie about that and how do we know they are not lying about everything? On the balance of probability, the probability that everything in the official narrative is true is several orders of magnitude smaller than the probability that everything in it is false.
It’s a classic case of Gell-Mann amnesia. Everyone knows that the authorities can’t be trusted to always tell the truth, but a huge number of people think that they are always equipped to tell when the authorities are lying. Unfortunately, the times when people think they are being told the truth have a distressingly high correlation to the times when the authorities are telling them what they want to hear.
“You can’t cherry-pick bits of it and say that that bit is true”
Bayard.
Oh but you can, and governments and their MSM whores, along with their NGO’s do it all the time – its called a Limited Hangout.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_hangout
The part of the Russian’s story that I don’t believe – is that the two-Russians were in Salisbury to take in the sites, such as Salisbury Cathedral.
Yeah, sorry, what I meant was “You can’t cherry-pick bits of it and say that that bit is true and imply that that supports the veracity of the whole”.
“The part of the Russian’s story that I don’t believe – is that the two-Russians were in Salisbury to take in the sites, such as Salisbury Cathedral.”
Nor do I, I reckon they were either criminals, smugglers or spies keeping an eye on Operation Toxic Dagger. Of course there are those who leap straight from “They weren’t in Salisbury to take in the sites” to “therefore they must have been there to bump off the Skripals”.
I get the big policy picture, the sacrifice zones, the whitewashing inquiry, the (sometimes literal) burying of evidence.
What precipitated the Skripal Salisbury incident? What were the notable events immediately prior? Why was the official story so bad? Was it some kind of test of public credulity? What was the official Russian account, and did it change? What was opinion around the world? What could explain the coincidences of the Army chief nurse and the nearby Porton Down? Were any noxious substances used, and if so what were they? Was there accidental exposure, perhaps to people transporting a substance? Was there a planned transaction, and did it take place? What are the biochemical weapon platforms of nations and organisations and how are they being used and countered? Were substances stolen, or invented as a diversion? What is the significance of the Sunday timing? Was there a surveillance or other operation that went wrong? How long are the relevant files sealed for, and is the British official secrecy jurisdiction unusual or extreme? To what extent do these events, actors and policies fall under Royal prerogative? Can anyone be held legally accountable above junior ranks? Are organophosphates being released into the environment in other ways we should be concerned about?
The official story might have been bad, but the vast majority of people believed it, and still do. Just about all propaganda is concocted and designed to effect the emotions i.e to emotionalize the target audience, and critical thinking goes straight out the window of course. And it’s almost impossible to get through to the people who have been emotionalized with the truth when they are in an emotionalized state. So now would be a good time to get the truth out to as many people as possible.
@Allan Howard, I was just thinking that in Shakespeare’s plays, the general (public) expectation is that royal prerogatives will be abused, hence royal recourse to appeals to the Oracle at Delphi, the Pope, or a decisive battle where the winner can claim God’s backing. If today’s state abuses are too gross, open and palpable, it surely gives weight to an international, impartial, qualified body to investigate and rule on these matters. Inciting mobs and manipulating emotions is not a foundation of stable and secure government. And would we see similar outrage if our state agents were found to be doing worse abroad (or domestically, or colonially)?
It broadly holds together until subjected to scrutiny.
Maybe Yulia screwed the real plans up with her phone call to her Russian cousin, Viktoria, on the phone a nurse apparently borrowed to her. Just before that story broke about her phone call home – on Russian TV, the Guardian, Times and Telegraph were being fed stories, presumably from the security services, that both Yulia and Sergei were still in induced comas, with less than a 1 or 2% chance of making any sort of recovery. To all intents and purposes they were on death’s door.
Maybe that was the original plan; to pronounce then dead and then give them new identities? Or maybe Yulia didn’t believe they’d be ever freed and was scared they may be actually killed in a tidying loose ends exercise, and the call was thus a ‘proof of life’ type call? I find it odd that the call was recorded by her cousin, Viktoria, who presumably immediately contacted then handed it over to Russian authorities? If Yulia told her cousin to prepare to record any call, that was a very smart move indeed.
I believe Mr Murray covered this in his previous reports. However, from what i recall, the army chief nurse was in the Salisbury area due to a military exercise the previous week (?) simulating an NBC attack. Coincidence or what ?
Just like the NATO exercise in the baltic just before the nord stream bombing, pure Coincidence.
Nothing to see here, move on …
“What were the notable events immediately prior?”
1. Exercise Toxic Dagger.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/exercise-toxic-dagger-the-sharp-end-of-chemical-warfare
As for shortly afterwards:
1. The Aeroflot trial at the Commercial Court in London, which Nikolai Glushkov was due to attend on 12 March 2018, but couldn’t, because that was the day his dead body was discovered, murdered by strangulation. (What, no doorcam?)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-56695489
“What precipitated the Skripal Salisbury incident? What were the notable events immediately prior? Why was the official story so bad?”
See my comment at https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2025/08/the-salisbury-novichok-false-flag/comment-page-1/#comment-1085404 formy best guess, FWIW.
Of course, we still await the Hughes Inquiry Report, which no doubt will be launched at a politically convenient time and only after rigorous security clearance. The Inquiry itself was based on the presumption of the existence and use of the deadly Russian nerve agent, Novichok, used exclusively by Russian agents to poison the Skripals and then poor Dawn Sturgess. It will not question the veracity of that narrative and will not consider in any way the questions posed by Rob Slane, Craig Murray, John helmer, Tim Norman, Re-Lapsed Agnostic or Uncle Tom Cobley.
The report will leave us no nearer to truth than before and just like we will never know who killed Seth Rich who was somehow embroiled in the Russiagate – now accepted as a hoax – we will never know how Dawn Sturgess actually died.
Thanks for the namechack Crispa. I’m not expecting Lord Hughes’ report to answer any of my questions, which is why I had to answer some of them myself:
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/forums/topic/the-salisbury-poisonings-episode-was-all-staged/page/6/#post-103411
I’m 99% confident that Dawn Sturgess died due to nerve agent poisoning.
“I’m 99% confident that Dawn Sturgess died due to nerve agent poisoning.”
and I’m 99% confident of the far more likely scenario that Dawn died from misuse of a new drug that had just started doing the rounds.
Thanks for your reply Bayard. Would this be a new drug that causes presentations that closely resemble those of nerve agent poisoning, and that only seemed to affect Dawn and Charlie and not Sam Hobson or any of the other bagheads in their social circle or the wider Salisbury environs, perchance?
At the inquiry, Prof Rutty suggested that the fentanyl found in Dawn’s system (at levels that he was not allowed to see) would have been administered to her after her admission to hospital as part of her treatment. However, like the Skripals, Dawn’s initial diagnosis and treatment was for a suspected opiate overdose. Fentanyl would not have been given to Dawn under these circumstances, even if she had not suffered catastrophic brain damage following her heart attack.
“Would this be a new drug that causes presentations that closely resemble those of nerve agent poisoning, and that only seemed to affect Dawn and Charlie and not Sam Hobson or any of the other bagheads in their social circle or the wider Salisbury environs, perchance?”
No
“we were comparatively close to Salisbury.”
Not really unless you consider Glasgow comparatively close to England. Ninety miles in each case.
And Edinburgh to England is less than 60 miles.
Obviously for someone from Edinburgh, Exeter is comparatively close to Salisbury. The point is that the music festival is evidently close enough to Salisbury for a significant number of people from there to attend it.
Ninety one miles, and hour and 45 minutes (if you’re lucky) along the A303, one of the worst roads in England. I wouldn’t call that ‘comparatively close’ under any circumstances.
Are you sure, Pears? What if the question ‘Are Exeter, Devon & Salisbury, Wilts comparatively close compared to Exeter, New Hampshire & Proxima Centuri? Yes or No’ was the only one on the 77th Brigade’s entrance exam?
Anyway, it’s OT but while I’m here: About a year ago, you stated that you’d seen footage online of rapes actually being committed in southern Israel by the October 7th attackers. When I expressed some scepticism about this, you stated that it wouldn’t be appropriate to give out the links, but that if I typed ‘hamas rapes’ into well-known, popular search engines, all would be revealed. I tried that in Google & DuckDuckGo but found nothing. So could you be more slightly more specific? Something along the lines of: you can find it somewhere in pages 30-50 of a DDG search for ‘hamas rapes’ for example.
Thanks in advance.
Enjoy the weekend.
“the A303, one of the worst roads in England”
You don’t get out in your car much, do you? The main road between Exeter and Salisbury is the A30 and I can assure you the A303 is a doddle to drive compared to it.
Just watched the video.
Craig makes some very good points as usual.
A fair bit missing in the lead up to the car parking on the supermarket roof at 1.40.
It was said in the MSM at the time that both the Skripal’s mobile phones were ‘turned off ‘ in the morning.
I think to remain untraceable you take the batteries out if you don’t want to be triangulated.
I don’t think you would take the batteries out if your were sat in your house all morning.
The same media said that Yulia and Sergei had gone to his mother’s grave that morning.
Whether that is true – I have no idea, but this makes no sense re: ‘ smearing ‘ ( yes – that was the word used initially) the door handle ( it was ‘doorknob initially too).
So, if they went out in the morning to the cemetery then they may have returned to the house.
This means that the alleged evil deed was conducted either before they went out or in between going out and returning later.
It was a boring Sunday – the house is in a cul – de sac people were in their houses yet no-one noticed two drizzly wet men approaching the front door messing around with the handle with no masks.
They were not Postmen obviously.
Here’s something to think about.
You do realise that the handle allegedly smeared/sprayed/ walloped is what is called a Porch Door?
To give it its correct title it is called a Storm Porch.
It provides protection against weather on your posh or not Upvc posh proper oak front door.
It’s a place where you – the kids take their wellies or boots of leaving the mud in the porch and where you will towel your dog down outside the house and of course rest your umbrellas.
A lot of people don’t lock them – not much to nick maybe.
So- there were two doors not one, for starters.
If the Skripal’s only went out once that day then the deed could have been done under the watchful eye of the neighbours very early in the morning say, whilst the Skripal’s curtains were shut or later after leaving the house only once?
If they went out once and came back again for dinner ( why have dinner 2 dinners oner at home and Zizis? ) and the deed was done whilst they were out then contamination would be on the posher inner door as well.
It was never mentioned.
The most interesting part of the video was Yulia’s response to the doctors es/no questions.
I’d never heard that before and no matter what the Un – Learned Judge said I believe her.
What would be her motive for lying?
That is a massive clue to where they wer both poisoned – in Zizis.
It now makes a bit more sense as it took them 40 minutes to get from Zizis to the bench they were found – which is only about 2 -300 metres away.
And what ever it was ( if Yulia is being truthful) it did not take very long to act.
A spray by definition lingers in the air and should have affected anyone near by.
It seems it didn’t.
Therefore; the spray must have been aimed directly at their mouths to be breathed in.
No-one noticed someone(s) doing that?
Say the two Russians?
Any CCTV in Zizis?
Not Novichok, though, as the police were wandering around the Restaurant interviewing people with of Hazmat suits.
Very curious behaviour.
For the lady in the audience as far as the good people of Salisbury were concerned the antidote to whatever the poison was – was Police Tape.
That’s what they thought of you and even their own police officers who were on the scene initially.
Unless someone(s) told their Higher Ups that it wasn’t dangerous?
Sergei Skripal was a colonel in the GRU and we can assume he knew (and still knows, if he’s alive) about how not to be tracked by phone.
Of course there is CCTV in Zizzi’s.
I’m quite interested in the intrepid duo’s train journey too. One station on the route between Waterloo and Salisbury, although fast services don’t stop there, is New Malden. (Which incidentally has the largest Koreatown in Europe, if anyone reading this is thinking of writing a novel.)
Gotta wonder whether Skripal had taken a job for one or other party interested in the Aeroflot trial. Same question could be asked about Alex and Rus.
On the notion of a possible Korean connection:
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/928035/north-korea-russian-spy-sergei-skripal-poison-salisbury-russia-putin
^ !! Could be chaff of course. Then again…….
There were staff reports Skripal senior was getting very agitated at the restaurant and wanted to go.
If we speculate it was a planned, why assume one, or both, weren’t in on it given their MI6 handler was present? Sergei was initially shown on Wikipedia as being born in Kyiv, Ukraine iirc, that’d provide the motive to cooperate. The best way to stage such an incident would be use of something non-lethal like Gamma-hydroxybutyrate (GHB)_ aka, the so-called date rape drug, a clear and odourless, slightly oily liquid, difficult to detect in an alcoholic beverage – there is a bottle of wine on the table in the photo taken by his handler. GHB takes about 15-30 minutes to kick in. Some speculate that’s how Gareth Williams, the Welsh mathematician and MI6 employee, could have been drugged, in what the tabloids dubbed ‘spy in the bag’ case – a bottle of wine and two glasses were found on a table in the Pimlico flat used by security service staff. On wiki it says :
The Foreign Secretary, William Hague, signed a public-interest immunity certificate authorising the withholding from the inquest of details of Williams’s work and U.S. joint operations Though, that’s probably normal and likely at US request, I’d assume.
(GHB) is rapidly metabolized in the body, after 12 hours it can’t be detected in a urine sample. If Sergei knew, it could explain his reported ‘agitation; and sudden desire to leave.
According to Wiki, Sergei Skripal was born in Kaliningrad, Brian:
He was born in Kaliningrad, Russia according to English Wikipedia, and in Kiev, Ukraine according to Russian Wikipedia and Life.ru.
I’m English, and I’m fairly certain, a one point, even English Wikipedia had his birthplace listed as Kyiv, Ukraine.
Thanks for your reply Goose. The Kaliningrad citation on English Wiki comes from the Beeb:
https://web.archive.org/web/20180624191858/https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43353178
Not sure why they would lie, so it’s probably just a mistake on their part. Perhaps I should cancel next month’s licence fee instalment and see what happens.
Enjoy the weekend.
Actually, he was born in Kiev, and he received his higher military education in Kaliningrad.
Wiki statistics reports that 198 authors made 594 edits to the article about Skripal on ru-Wiki. It would be interesting to see the edit statistics in the English version.
Also, on the Wiki discussion page
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9E%D0%B1%D1%81%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5:%D0%A1%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C,_%D0%A1%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B3%D0%B5%D0%B9_%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87
there’s this entry:
Почему в англоязычном варианте место рождения – Калининград, а в русском Киев??? — Эта реплика добавлена с IP 146.120.70.83 (о) 01:44, 18 марта 2018 (UTC)
*Wiki user asks why en-Wiki says Kaliningrad, when ru-Wiki says Kiev. IP starting with 146 is Tbilisi, Georgia.
Thanks for your reply Tatyana. I’m sure you’re right. Unfortunately, I don’t have time to check things on Russian Wikipedia (I’d need to run it through Google Translate as I only know a few Russian words). In fact, I’m often too lazy to check things on English Wikipedia, which sometimes leads to mistakes, as it did with a comment about the 10 year-old killer Mary Bell a couple weeks ago. That can be embarrassing, but since I’m not being paid for my contributions here, it doesn’t keep me up at night.
Enjoy the weekend.
Tatyana
Little aside from the UK, on the spelling of Kiev, as it was always spelt like that here : Kiev, pronounced : Key F. Chicken Kiev is a well-known meal here. However, at some point, I think it was after 2022’s invasion, the spelling changed to Kyiv, which is nonsense really, since the English is derived from Cyrillic Ukrainian – obviously a completely different alphabet. All the supermarkets changed their meal packaging naming too, presumably in a show of support for Ukraine? I don’t know if there was any UK govt initiative behind it? They are now known as Chicken Kyivs! pronounced : Keeve. I don’t know if the same thing has happened in the US?
The spelling of Zelensky has changed too, with an addition ‘y’ appearing at some point, making him Zelenskyy.
Goose. Chicken Kiev is still, and always has been, spelt the ‘proper’ way at Lidl’s, the purveyor of fine British goods. 🙂
“I don’t know if there was any UK govt initiative behind it?”
Probably not, any more than there was behind all those Ukranian flags you still see or the blue and yellow Facebook thumbnails. In any case, when the dish “Chicken Kiev” was invented, that was the name of the city, do that is the name of the dish. Referring to it as “Chicken Kyiv” is as daft as talking about the “Battle of Volgograd” in WWII, or saying that Cyrus the Great was king of Iran.
I guess the new naming isn’t universal. Two examples :
https://www.ocado.com/products/m-s-2-chicken-kyivs/516306011
https://www.trolley.co.uk/product/waitrose-2-frozen-garlic-chicken-kievs/BDD300
Ironically, were Ukraine in the EU, they couldn’t even use that name for British produce, due to the European Union’s Protected Designation of Origin (PDO) rules – these ensure certain products can only be produced in specific regions using traditional methods.
Russian historian William August Pokhlebkin, a famous author, wrote, among other things, the history of Russian cuisine.
Pokhlebkin wrote that the Kiev cutlet (chiken Kiev) was invented in St. Petersburg, Russia, somewhere during the Silver Age of Russian culture, the period before the First World War, when Russia was an empire, and Kiev was its province, and Diaghilev presented The Russian Seasons in Paris.
For dinner, I often take it, served with mashed potatoes 🙂
As a Sunday treat, would you like me to teach you how to pronounce the word Kyiv with a Ukrainian accent?
The first sound differs from its English counterpart by palatalization and lack of aspiration. Imagine that you were sucking on a lollipop and a small piece of it got stuck to the upper of your mouth, behind your teeth, an inch deeper. Move your tongue there as if trying to tear the lollipop off, do not exhale, pronounce /k/.
For the next sound, position your lips and tongue as if you were going to pronounce the English sound /i/. Fix it and do not say anything for now. First, widen your throat as if you changed your mind and the sound will be /a/. Now, with lips for /i/ and throat for /a/, pronounce /u/.
The third sound in Kyiv is very similar to /j/, the initial sound in Yes, but narrower. Now imagine yourself in a situation where you can’t scream. Like you’re standing in the middle of the alien’s hive, ovomorphs everywhere, and the queen is looking right at you. You slowly back away and step on a sharp piece of glass with your bare heel, trying to say Yeeee with your mouth very tightly clenched. That’s how you say jot sound.
Now say sound #3 again and finally the last sound /v/, but with a little less energy than you usually do.
I think by that time you’ll be just tired and the last sound will come out perfect.
Tatyana
It’s claimed Arabic and Chinese are among the most difficult languages for English speakers to learn; Chinese due to the fact some words have up to 7 different meanings based on intonation.
Our newsreaders, studio pundits and Ukraine-based correspondents have all adopted the new pronunciation of Kiev, which always sounds like Keef to me, as in Kief…er Sutherland, the famous Canadian actor’s name. Why these people try to put on an accent to name a place, in a language they don’t speak, is a mystery? They don’t do it with any other European capital city i.e., Rome is plain old Rome, Paris is plain old Paris.
“Why these people try to put on an accent to name a place, in a language they don’t speak, is a mystery? They don’t do it with any other European capital city i.e., Rome is plain old Rome, Paris is plain old Paris.”
The politics behind the use of endonyms (what the local people call something) and exonyms (what other people, not local call it) is pretty random. In English, we have exonyms like Rome, Florence, Egypt and India, whereas the endonyms are Roma, Firenze, Misr and Bharat. Sometimes the official name has been changed, like Iran for Persia, Myanmar for Burma and Thailand for Siam. It gets pretty daft when the endonym is written in a different script to the exonym.
Interesting speculation, Goose. Something oily that you could get on your hands, that might seriously incapacitate. Did they get something on their hands from the doorknob? When they ate and drank, could that have been when they consumed or breathed in the narcoleptic sedative? Was it the same substance on the outside of the perfume packaging? And so was the perfume just perfume, while the substance on their hands was the nerve agent? Who threw it in the bin? Yulia?
Not novichok, though the inventor of novichok was interviewed at the gates of his large property near New York, and he was proud of his creation of the substance.
Amateur sleuthing, but a handful of professionals at the heart of the matter.
Kind of the nurse to let Yulia make a phone call – such a normal thing to do. Well there we are : who, what, why, when, how, remain the same questions as at the time it all happened
Given there hasn’t been a peep out of them since, no TV, newspaper or magazine interviews, you can only conclude the call was made due to her mounting fear. I can’t imagine UK intel officers would have authorised her to make that call and the fact she made no others, and no others since(?) supports that theory.
Intel agencies are probably tense places, full of suspicion and paranoia, at the best of times, due to the constant insider threat (moles). Being around those spooks, probably made her nervous about her own fate?
Mm – not sure she knew her liberty was lost. If I recall she said she was fine. She may have been expecting to return to normal life, even if her father was more ‘agitated’ in the restaurant when he realised something was amiss.
Interesting that the perfume bottle nozzle was possibly from Israel. Thank you Craig.
Was this before Hunter Biden’s uploaded hard drive revealed the 26 bioweapons labs he was involved with in Ukraine?
The guy funding Zelensky’s TV series and the labs, Kolnoyski, is Ukrainian Israeli.
Some dangerous individuals have an agenda. Were there any Israelis nearby? Were the Russians fitted up by a third party?
Perhaps the Skripals are safe from harm in Canada?
Whodunnit?
I read New Zealand, and that there was a bit of diplomatic spat over it – could be typical internet nonsense tho.
Were I choosing, New Zealand would seem to make a lot of sense, due to its remoteness & flight time, and the number of sparsely populated areas, where the only things they’ll see all day are sheep.
I don’t think they’ll have been killed or anything like that, intel agencies aren’t going to murder those who’ve assisted them.
Sparsely populated communities always notice new incomers, and gossip spices up their secluded lives.
In NZ I met an ex pat who lived in a remote area who said he had to bring his wife into the city once a month or she’d go crazy, I’ve seen this elsewhere. There’s no hiding in the outback !
“I don’t think they’ll have been killed or anything like that, intel agencies aren’t going to murder those who’ve assisted them.”
I don’t think they’ve been killed either, but not for that reason. The main reason not to murder someone who has assisted is so as not to deter other people from assisting them. No intelligence agency wants the reputation “We don’t give a toss about the people we recruit”. On the contrary, they want the rep “We look after our own”. But given the capability for surveillance, manipulation of likelihood assessments, fakery, etc. – i.e. intelligence agencies’ stock in trade – it must be quite easy to put it about that such-and-such a person got whacked because he went on the drugs and started thinking he could play both sides of the street (which doubtless some do). Also, “shit happens” of course. It’s a dangerous business. Cry at the funeral and then get back on with it…
Re. the Skripal case, people aren’t talking about the “mafia” enough…nor about what missions the GRU might actually be assigned in Britain.
“Interesting that the perfume bottle nozzle was possibly from Israel.”
Ah, I didn’t know that.
Zionist relations with the Russian and Ukrainian governments, Zionist interest in the Russo-Ukrainian war, Zionist interest in the geopolitical position of Russia – these are little broached topics.
This is even though you might have thought it was easy to editorialise drawing a comparison with 1956 (wars in Hungary and Middle East, cf. war in Europe now and genocide in Gaza) and that commentators might have noticed
* Kolomoisky
* armed Zionists in the Maidan in Kiev
* “foreign elements” in the Azovstal steel plant
* kibbutzim in the Ukraine
* the “community centre” in Dnipro
* the preponderance of Jews in the mafia elite in both Russia and Ukraine
* or even Zelensky pretending to play “Hava Nagila” on the piano with his knob.
Many Jews detest Russia more than any other country, even while not being western in their outlook and while considering they’ve got a practical understanding of reality that isn’t hampered with sentimental preference for any particular non-Jewish culture over any other.
OK, so a Government that couldn’t organise an illegal piss up in No.10 managed to plan and implement this complex ‘false flag’, fool most of the population and keep their involvement secret.
Right…
https://metro.co.uk/2022/01/14/while-no-10-partied-we-were-made-to-feel-like-criminals-15917577/
The point is that the govt (or whoever else organised this operation) did not successfully plan and implement it. The whole official explanation is full of holes and points to this being a botched operation – thus par for the course.
” The whole official explanation is full of holes ”
Which points to it not being planned at all.
According to ‘Truthers’ the government successfully managed to pull of the London and Manchester bombings which were far more complex operations involving larger numbers of 100% reliable ‘crisis actors’ of which the PTB seem to have an inexhaustible supply.
“” The whole official explanation is full of holes ”
Which points to it not being planned at all.”
Not at all, all it points to is that the explanation was not planned, not the operation. The operation that was planned was not the “operation” that the public was told about. The “operation” the public was told about wasn’t planned,neither did it happen. That’s why it was full of holes, because it was cobbled together quickly to support a false scenario.
“According to ‘Truthers’ the government successfully managed to pull of the London and Manchester bombings which were far more complex operations ”
Just because those bombings weren’t planned to the last detail by the government doesn’t mean that they didn’t have any involvement in them.
It is for certain that government involvement in such operations is most often via agents provocateurs. They egg people on to commit counter-productive violence for their cause, or to compromise themselves, or both. It doesn’t mean the government is involved in actual operational planning. Though there are those too.
Can you provide a link to any highlighting by the mass media of the many plotholes in the approved Salisbury story (whether liberal media or conservative)?
Covid parties in No 10 were something establishment liberals were allowed and willing to criticise.
As you know, they and conservatives are as one when it comes to Russophobia, abetting genocide, the ISIS coup in Syria etc, etc.
The fact “adversarial” liberal media has never questioned any of the absurdities of the official Boris Johnson story on Salisbury isn’t something you can talk your way out of.
So what are you saying? That the whole ‘liberal media’ is in on the plot?
“So what are you saying? That the whole ‘liberal media’ is in on the plot?”
Maybe he’s saying that the whole ‘liberal media’ is in the habit of just believing whatever the security services tell them and/or understands what the editors want and what they have to do to keep their job. The editors in turn understand what the owners want.
Apparently, You’re over the target when all the chaff from trolls increases … 🙂
Of course, as with the other issues I referenced.
Do you dispute that both wings of the British establishment (and their acolytes) are in cahoots on those issues?
You’re confusing government with the security services. Sure, the govt is full of incompetent people, but as with the civil service, MI5/6, GCHQ attempt to recruit from the best and brightest at Oxbridge and other Russell Group universities.
We don’t know how much free rein, or to use the jargon, ‘operational independence,’ the security services have, because everything is shrouded in intense secrecy in the UK; secrecy that the services themselves preciously defend. And we’ve never had the kind of introspection the US underwent with the Church Committee hearings in the 1970s; those investigated abuses by the CIA and FBI, the respective UK equivalents being MI6 and MI5.
The UK parliamentary oversight body, the Intelligence and Security Committee(ISC) rarely meets, lacks independent expert advice,and members have been vetted by the very agencies they’ll oversee. A process that ensures only establishment worthies and right-wing hawks ever query intel service chiefs, i.e. people predisposed to support any and all activities, legal or not , it being, in their eyes, the patriotic thing to do.
Compounding all this, in Starmer, we’ve got an establishment placeman. Even if presented with evidence of wrongdoing, I’ve no doubt his inclination would be to cover-up to protect his masters. The press have been totally defanged too, hollowing out their investigative reporting, they’re a wholly incurious bunch who echo govt lines, calling anyone who is skeptical of various narratives ‘conspiracy theorists, cranks, and disinfo merchants’. Look at the example I gave earlier; how in the course of a week the Guardian went from pieces claiming the Skripals had virtually no chance of recovery, to claiming both were well. This after Yulia’s phone call to her cousin, in which she said, neither her nor her father, had any lasting injury or harm and they were both bored and waiting to leave.
As for a solution, one that a radical govt could implement.
There isn’t one silver bullet solution, as it’s a process. It starts with the UK becoming a real democracy; introducing a fair ‘proportionate’ voting system and adopting a new written constitution; codifying and delimiting powers. The ‘all powerful’ overreaching permanent officialdom will know they aren’t their own ‘judge and jury’ atop the hierarchy anymore. The current system has served us well argument, needs to be challenged, as what is their basis for comparison?
This is what I find most infuriating with the Starmer govt. He’s basically p*ssing away Labour’s rare time in office, by maintaining the status quo like some establishment lackey. A Labour govt’s role, historically, is in pushing through radical democratic/ constitutional reform in the face of reactionary. establishment conservative opposition. The British people, who voted Labour expecting ‘real change’ are being cheated by this scoundrel, who’s gaslighting everyone on the left, with his fake ‘change’ and Tory-esque, right-wing, authoritarian attacks on civil liberties. Even guardian readers now despise the guy, going by how comments have change from supportive, to skeptical, to hostile.
Perhaps there is no chance of such a radical government because Labour has been thoroughly infiltrated by the City, as detailed here;
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/rachel-reeves-keir-starmer-labour-finance-private-equity-takeover/
The bond market’s reaction (affecting the govt borrowing rate) has usurped voters’ democratic right to choose in many ways. And worse, there is no debate about their extraordinary power.
This is why I don’t think there is a one party solution under FPTP that can perform miracles. We need PR first, so that the fund managers simply can’t hammer a single party govt until it’s forced to resign. And believe me, that is what would happen.
Richard Murphy seems more optimistic, on what seems to be the same subject (on the surface, at least – I’ve never understood economics, so I can’t see beyond the surface):
https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2025/06/05/are-bond-vigilantes-really-in-control/
Are bond vigilantes really in control? [Thu 5 Jun 2025]
“In that case, if the government creates all the money that we have, and it can never run out of money to pay its debts, precisely because it always has the power to create more money to settle any claim that arises upon it, because that’s what owning the Bank of England does for it, then it isn’t true, it is in fact impossible for it to be true, that the government is dependent upon bond holders to provide it with money to be able to fund its activities because they must have got their money from the government in the first place, and this is the fundamental truth that is being ignored by everyone who talks about bond vigilantes.
[…]
As a consequence, this whole idea that markets can somehow discipline the government is, let’s be blunt about it, complete and utter nonsense. The reality is, and we have seen this throughout the crises after 2008 and again after the COVID crisis, is that in moments of crisis, bondholders, in fact, always want to buy government bonds because the government is the place of safe deposit, and that is fundamental.
[…]
In that case, the idea that austerity is imposed by the City is nonsense. Austerity is, in reality, a political choice, an ideology imposed by politicians, but not something that is imposed by the City.
So the reality is that if we had a decent government, they would understand this.
[…]
And so, where are we? The time has come for a new narrative. Bond vigilantes are a myth. They’re a myth that suits the City of London very well. They’re a myth that suits politicians who want to fuel austerity very well. But both those myths are wrong. They are as wrong as the belief that there might be fairies at the bottom of your garden. They are as absurd as that.
What we actually need is a government who understands that they can use their power to influence interest rates, and to impact on the levels of demand within the economy, to also influence the level of savings within the economy, to achieve the goal, which is an economy that serves the interest of the people of this country, including by delivering full employment.
Let’s stop pretending that markets are in charge. They aren’t. The government is, and it requires politicians who understand that to deliver what we really need in this country, which is a government that puts things right.”
Is he right? I hope so, but I can’t help worrying:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bond_vigilante
Bond vigilante – Wikipedia
“Bond vigilantes have been described as partly responsible for the British government headed by Liz Truss’s U-turn on its proposed mini-budget, which would have greatly increased disposable income by cutting taxes across the board. As a result of the proposed plan, the British pound fell to its all time low against the dollar and government bond yields rose to multi-year highs, forcing the Bank of England to intervene and causing Liz Truss to sack then Chancellor of the Exchequer Kwasi Kwarteng. After new Chancellor of the Exchequer Jeremy Hunt announced the plan would be scrapped on 17 October, bond markets began to stabilize.[“
I respect Richard Murphy, but highlighting the fact UK govt issued gilts were seen as a safe haven during the covid crisis hardly supports his wider thesis. Rachel Reeves fiscal rules were dictated purely by market reaction fears
It’s like Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) advocates. Who would buy any govt issued bonds if the govt was adjudged to be spending excessively? And with our national debt of £2.9 trillion, the interest per year alone is more than the entire defence budget. We simply haven’t got the luxury to misjudge things. If the markets won’t touch govt issued bond sales, but you keep spending, you’d end up with hyperinflation at home, capital flight and a worthless junk currency. Though, as the Bond yields are variable, you’d default on debt interest payments way before that point, requiring a conditional IMF bailout. That may happen in the UK or France in the coming months/years. The only country that can print money is the US, as the world’s reserve currency it’s assured of buyers for its debt sales, and even that is being tested by dedollarization, Trump’s tariffs and the sentiment that the US is simply living way beyond its means with a national debt of over $36 trillion. Even Trump can’t fight the Bond markets.
This is why my main focus, is on democratic modernisation / constitution reform, and dovish foreign policy, which should be achievable, costs very little, and could indeed save money. if you introduced PR, cut down the absurdly large number of members in the HoC and abolish the Lords – as Labour promised. I think any govt wanting to tax and spend, in ways these markets deem excessive, will run into trouble simply because of the way our country is already so overleveraged. The huge national debt – £2.9 trillion – and yearly budget deficit – $151 billion in 2024, mean the scope for transformative economic policies is v.limited.
The situation is so serious, Reeves may have to break her manifesto tax pledges, and this is most fiscally conservative, Labour chancellor the markets could have possibly hoped for. Of course, the lack of promised economic growth hasn’t helped. Quite why Reeves idiotically stated she’d ‘simply ‘inject’ growth into the economy, is a mystery?
@Twirlip – No British government has taken on the City of London ever.
Wait. Maybe Charles I tried in the mid-17th century. Oops. When his family came back though, they’d learnt their lesson. See the Royal African Company, founded 1660.
Governments are in the service of finance capital. They’re errand boys.
This is why I won’t be surprised if Trump soon falls.
“No British government has taken on the City of London ever.”
I suspect that what is meant by “The City of London” is the oligarchs who run the UK, not anything geographical any more.
Twirlip, you may not know much about economics, but nothing you know is wrong. Goose unfortunately has been deceived.
The idea that bond markets discipline governments is a childish conspiracy fantasy. The core fantasy is the idea that bonds (= deferred tax credits) are mystically different from currency (= current tax credits) in turn based on commodity theories of money – which attributing mystical powers to a golden calf. The calf is dead, dead, dead, the appeal of mysticism and conspiracism remains.
You and I are “bond markets” – we sell our labor for money. As long as people want to save money, as long as it is a reasonable store of value, which the pound and the dollar have been for centuries, there will be this market. The question comes in, would one prefer money that grows to money that does not? If the state offers the choice of growing-money = bonds, then the mass of saving will be in that, of course.
But the state determines the bond prices / interest rates. It could determine them by having a chimp throw darts at a board. It would not make the chimp the master of the state, because that was a state decision. If “the chimp” is a bunch of bond traders – that doesn’t change anything. Technically, the state cannot set both the quantity of bonds and the interest rate at once. What states recently do is set the quantity, so the interest rate can move up and down – wreaking economic havoc, enriching the rich, all good, but far more important, fostering an illusion that the bond market chimps are in charge, not the zookeeper, the state.
The most potent weapon in the hands of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed. This illusion is such a weapon.
“OK, so a Government that couldn’t organise an illegal piss up in No.10 managed to plan and implement this complex ‘false flag’, fool most of the population and keep their involvement secret.”
How many people do you think make up “the government”? Do you not think the answer is a figure large enough to allow for the idiots who organised an illegal piss-up in No 10 to be totally different people to the ones who managed to keep what really happened in Salisbury from the general public?
Great event in the tent, thanks. There are so many irregularities in the official story, you could call it a sieve.
This Russophobia is engrained and always promoted by those we vote into power. Fact is Russia was a UK Allie in WW2 and they love nothing more than to put them down.
Thank you Craig for pulling the Governments spun wool from our eyes.
Lets see whether they are blind to the right wings propaganda attempts trying to whip up the gullible public.
Feel free to send a message to the Home office if you want to stop these vile propaganda bands barred from entering the UK.
https://hopenothate.org.uk/2025/08/28/great-yarmouth-to-host-britains-biggest-white-power-concert-in-years/
America was a UK ally in WW2 but I bet that doesn’t mean you look kindly in that direction.
Pears Morgaine
I for one certainly don’t.
Better late than never was phrase used in the UK at the time of their entry into WW2.
Or ‘where have you been?’
The US only got physically involved when its ‘ interests ‘ may have been or were under threat and like Ukraine the Lend Lease
had to be paid back.
You should know by now that America does not have friends – it only has ‘ interests’ when they are under threat they drop their friends.
Starmer and Zelensky really need to understand that and I think you should too.
If Israel attacks Iran and the US influenced oilfields in the region are attacked even Israel will be dropped.
Or ‘ Regime Changed ‘ US style.
I think most people are sensible enough to differentiate the American people and culture (good) from their recent leaderships(bad). I really dislike any argument that says , if you dislike a country’s foreign policies then you must hate that country per se, that’s an absurdly reductionist position.
Would we in the UK want to be judged by our leaderships? This is why I can’t muster any personal animosity for the likes of : China, Russia, N. Korea; Iran, Venezuela. The average person there doesn’t hate us, and nor should we hate them. Historically, even the US’s hostility and paranoia about communism, was driven by ultra wealthy individuals, fearful that the ideological arguments underpinning communism, may prove popular and take root in the US, thus jeopardising their excessive fortunes.
Michael Hudson has often pointed out that these alliances were only worth as much as they served the stronger party.
Idealism or genuine friendship was certainly only a very minor part of it.
Columbia Univ. historian Paul Chamberlin in his book about WWII has hinted at something similiar I think.
The US weighed in what would serve their interest most. Had it been – for whatever fictional scenario – the Axis, things could have as well turned out much different.
At least as speculative history allows us to say today.
Of course with Japan pushing the limits in the Pacific this was unlikely in the long run.
I remember also Noam Chomsky often in his lectures reminded of how much the elites of the early US and GB pre WWI hated each other.
Which is also why the US used the destruction of Europe in the course of WWI to indebt Europe by granting loans which then led to Versailles and got to be paid for by Germany. Rest is history.
“The US weighed in what would serve their interest most. Had it been – for whatever fictional scenario – the Axis, things could have as well turned out much different.”
As long as Franklin Roosevelt was President, there was zero chance of the US weighing in on the side of the Axis. At President-elect Roosevelt’s meeting with advisors after Hitler’s accession to power in 1933, there was no other topic of discussion. So such a fictional scenario is so far from reality that it sheds little light on it.
Thanks for the ref to Chamberlin. Took a look; has its good points, but as I expected, the sort of book that is not needed. For revisionist stories of WWII are listened to everywhere. The more accurate “conventional” story, contrary to Chamberlin, not.
Chamberlin’s perspicacity- someone who could pen a sentence like: “Having failed to draw Moscow into an anti-German coalition, London & Paris were left to bear the brunt of the struggle against Hitler’s war machine.” even for the short period when the second clause was not wrong – is questionable.
The conventional story is closer to the “original and correct story” which was globally agreed during the fighting and by many millions having experienced that era, for decades. Not surprisingly, Soviet/Russian or Eastern historiography has been more stable and sane than the Western Right, Center or Left. Also, idealism & friendship definitely were more than a minor part of the Grand Alliance as well.
For the problem with (sane) modern revisionist history and its analyses is that Roosevelt & somewhat even the other two of the Big Three had a rather more intelligent, humane & civilized concept of national interest & international order than the rather simple-minded one that Chamberlin, Biden, Trump or even (Trotskyist) Hudson & (Anarchist) Chomsky all share. Willard Range’s 1959 book, Franklin D. Roosevelt’s World Order describes it well. Hundreds of millions – of that era – shared that concept, which frankly goes over the heads of moderns much more concerned with not appearing to believe in anything than in being right. Blithely ignoring that that is how people of the 20s and 30s thought and acted. And ignoring how such “scepticism” became the most extreme credulity and how this led to the catastrophe of the 1940s.
I imagine the security services have an eye on extremist groups, but the petition (to stop foreign extremists entering the country) is still a good idea.
No it’s not. Who defines the extremist groups ? As far as I’m aware: Al-Qaeda is welcome, ISIS is welcome, the IDF is welcome, Saudi is welcome, the USA is welcome. So who do you think would actually be banned ?
This is just more restrictions on people, democracy and free speech.
Stevie Boy, none of the groups you mentioned, including the USA believe in free speech and they all carry out atrocities.
Exactly. And my point is they are welcomed by TPTB in the UK, so my conclusion is that the only people who would be banned by our government would be people campaigning for and supporting free speech and an end to genocide.
The only case of murder which was officially acknowledged by the Russian government – to my knowledge – was the Berlin “Tiergarten” murder – which simply was a RU intelligence assassination of a hostile agent.
(Compare that number with the number of non-Westerners killed by the US drone program or by CIA operations, I assume they go into the hundreds of foreign agents)
So, if you want to kill someone, it´s simple, you just kill that person. That is true for any entity.
The fact that Western public, or English for that matter, still is so gullible towards Salisbury proves how deeply entrenched public elite sentiment is with utter prejudice towards everything Russian.
Be it as absurd as can be: if it´s the Russians, we seem to buy anything and seem to want to believe anything. What is that if not structural racism?
Would anybody believe the CIA was pulling such an idiotic stunt just to attempt a killing and then create this mess?
I must think back to the likes of Montagu and other humanities experts and poets in British Intelligence in WWII. Or such people as described in “The Six Days of the Condor” by James Grady, to understand where this entire baloney comes from.
it doesn´t mean Eastern services have had no tradition of making up “shit” of their own – (I am thinking – among others – of that Czech operation with a sunken trove of forged documents in a lake almost causing a government crisis in West Germany in the 1960s) – but this is the 21st century, focus, method and above all priorities have changed.
Russia is under attack for 25 years now and I frankly believe they simply have seriously more important things to take care of like such stupid operations. For instance protecting their nucleart triad from SBU and keeping us out of harms way like WWIII.
And considering the influx of unchecked Urkainians since 2022 they have a huge potential of undiscovered agents in their midst.
The relish with which certain individuals in Europe are talking up what would be a catastrophic war is deeply concerning. Kaja Kallas came out of a meeting held today discussing these matters with a huge silly grin on her face, as if it’s all a game. And her boss, Ursula von der Leyen, was in Estonia, posting on Twitter/X from an airbase about defending Europe’s “Eastern flank” – which sounds a lot like Eastern Front – the theatre of World War II fought between the European Axis powers and Allies. The leaders of countries : Germany, Finland; Estonia and Latvia, all of whom fought together against the Soviet Red Army, are sadly, seemingly the most bellicose and at the forefront of driving Europe to war again. I doubt this fact is being lost on Russia. This was reported today the UK Telegraph:
Senior White House officials are said to be losing patience with European leaders, who they claim are privately pushing the Ukrainian president to hold out for an unrealistic peace deal.
I believe whoever these officials are, they are correct in that assessment. A deal, albeit an imperfect one from Ukraine’s perspective, is definitely within reach. European leaders’ strategy appears to be based on the idea Russia’s will to continue will be broken at some future point and then completely collapse. But Russia has lost too much blood and treasure to simply give up now and Russian army recruitment offices are still v.busy, despite the losses, indicating Russians still believe in the righteousness of the war.
One of the main reasons for WWI was the desire of France for revenge on Germany for beating them in the Franco-Prussian War. There would be a certain symmetry if WWII was caused by the desire of the losers of WWII to get back at Russia. I sometimes wonder if the summer of 2025 will go down in history like the summer of 1914.
If anyone is watching Finland it would be interesting to hear whether there is increased revanchist talk there right now.
There seems to be quite a few current and former senior NATO officials, like former NATO Secretary General, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, who are of the opinion, that if this ends now, and sanctions are eased allowing Russia to rearm, regroup with vital lessons learned from this conflict, then they’ll become a much more formidable fighting force in the future. They’ve also persuaded themselves that a Russian invasion of the Baltic states – after first closing, by force, the Suwałki Gap to isolate these states – is inevitable : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suwa%C5%82ki_Gap
Such NATO groupthink is obviously v. dangerous.
Narva in Estonia is high on the list of places where a provocation could be carried out by those who want to scupper an agreement that could end the war – with NATO states saying or suggesting it was the Russian government that did it. Not a border incident but a terror attack against Russians. Kallas and Von Der Leyen would be in seventh heaven.
Considering strategic assets, such as military expertise, military assets (i.e. military supremacy by RU which I won´t get tired of stressing), natural resources, international alliances, control of geographical choke points etc. Europe is without a doubt on the losing side. Whatever Kallas and friends are doing it´s a dance of ducks (as in duck being a fabrication or lie),
All their rethoric is so awfully hollow and meaningless, it´s unbelievable.
So I would say it´s not even worth considering if RU is going to have any regard for what European leaders want unless it concurs with Russian interests. The EU has nothing in its arsenal to enforce its will.
Just think of how German Greens were behaving, the things they were stating, and then how they were acting at home, in their ministeries – (Habeck using internal intelligence against people with opposing views and actual competence unlike him, in his mega ministry for energy) – and so on – and how all that collapsed like a proverbial house of cards.
Nothing is left of this period. Nothing.
All they did leave us behind are costs and ridicule. The level of incompetence, the level of hate culture, of double standard, of gigantic hypocrisy surpassed even my initial doubts once the Russian-Ukraine War became a definite fact of life.
And the identical mindset is holding sway over Brussels. I like to point at such people as Björn Seibert, VdL´s right-hand man and head of cabinet. The cluelessness that is hiding behind those tropes of vanity such as “Research Associate of the Security Studies Program at MIT” or “Non-Resident Fellow at the Paul H. Nitze School of Advanced International Studies” or “Research Analyst at the American Enterprise Institute”. Oh my God.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bj%C3%B6rn_Seibert
Or take this joke of the century: Jakob Schrot – believe it or not. He is 34, in 2009 he won a TV casting show “I can chancellor”, he is head of the Chancellory, head of the now formed German National Security Council:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Schrot
He has zero clue of what he is doing.
It´s actually not even funny.
Another Merz guy is his advisor on foreign policy issues. He is less of an outlier than just the standard lack of anything except career mediocrity, Günter Sautter:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnter_Sautter
This the FRG.
The only thing left is to quote the Coen Brothers´ satire “Burn After Reading” about incompetent and mad US citizens and US security services: “You are league of morons”.
Or Mel Brooks´s Spaceballs – which pretty much hits the nail re: Germany and EU.
“Spaceballs: Surrounded by assholes”
40 sec.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sen8Tn8CBA4
As much as I dislike the US’s foreign policies, I do think the fact that Trump is willing to meet and talk to adversaries is to his credit. Europeans should hope his administration manages to force our European leaders into accepting the fact that in Ukraine an imperfect peace is better than a forever war . Because, the concern has to be, that European leaders wish to drag this conflict out beyond Trump’s term, in the hope a President Newsom(?) will pick up hostilities with Russia where Biden left off. The US Democrat party is beyond all hope of reconciliation with Russia; years of hysterical Russophobic media conditioning and monthly intel agency fed scare stories, has seen to that. Even many otherwise intelligent Americans believe Russia is some sort of evil mastermind; behind Trump’s ascendancy, MAGA, and all the Democrat party’s political woes. It’s pathetic nonsense.
Trump’s approach, for all the criticism, is how you thaw hostilities and a previous generation of leaders understood that : you to talk to your enemies, not your friends. And this is why Kaja Kallas, like Germany’s Baerbock, is wholly unsuited to being Europe’s top diplomat. Her dogma-driven Russophobia, is not only immature, it’s potentially dangerous. It’s reported Kallas has no contact with Moscow whatsoever, preferring megaphone diplomacy. And she reportedly has to ask to be briefed on what the US has discussed with Russia. If true, that’s a shameful dereliction of duty, when people’s lives may depend on maintaining dialogue.
You are being rather nice to our European diplomats 😉
I personally deeply and utterly detest those stooges.
They are cowardish criminals.
Don´t know what DNC will pull off 2028.
Despite doubts over midterms and GOP voters, I am having the impression Dems really have lost the base. And a little something won´t fix that. Unless Trump won´t start another big war people will not help a Newsom (I don´t believe he will get through serious Primaries though, he is too much California and establishment).
We´ll see…the bigger threat is Neocons again hijacking the GOP.
Trump´s attempts re: Ukraine are opposed by the entire intelligence establishment which is huuuuge. And powerful. Eventually who is on his side in this particular matter, except Vance and Gabbard?
If anything, RU armed forces will create hard facts that will leave only limited space for US – whoever POTUS is.
Many senior US intel officials have either been purged or resigned since last year. Remember also that in Trump’s first term he had Russia hawks John Bolton and Mike Pompeo in his administration. He’s not allowed that to happen this time, appointing Steve Witkoff as a counter to Marco Rubio. Rubio is a neocon too, but he appears to be going along with Trump peace plans. I’d assume because he’s got an eye on a future party nomination and presidential bid? As a neocon, Rubio is distrusted by MAGA, that’s why there was widespread dismay when Trump appointed him, I’d wager he won’t win the nomination. And I’d also wager it’s Rubio who’s driving the current build-up of US naval forces around Venezuela.
Some of the new intel officials probably share the view that China is the looming threat, and they believe if Russia can be peeled away from China somehow (unlikely), they won’t have to worry about potentially fighting both. I’d imagine that’s why some in the Trump administration want to quickly draw this Ukrainian conflict to a close, and then attempt to reintegrate Russia into western structures, like the G7 (G8 with Russia). If China does choose to blockade and/or invade Taiwan, they won’t want Russia alongside China, or exploiting the situation in Ukraine, or becoming a force-multiplier.
AG
We had a well-respected politician called Tony Benn, he produced 5 essential questions, or tests, to ask those exercising power over others:
“What power have you got?”
Welche Macht hast du?
“Where did you get it from?”
Woher haben Sie es?
“In whose interests do you use it?”
In wessen Interesse nutzen Sie es?
“To whom are you accountable?”
Wem gegenüber sind Sie rechenschaftspflichtig?
“How do we get rid of you?”
Wie werden wir Sie los?
How many could von der Leyen and Kallas answer?
Since you mentioned Newsom, a good take on nakedcapitalism just from today:
“Gavin Newsom Weaponizes ‘Dark Woke’ Cringe Against Trump”
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2025/09/gavin-newsom-dark-woke-trump-social-media-influencers.html
Yes those are an excellent handful.
But of course as professional liars both politicians (like 90% of all the others) would just argue along the lines of “democracy”, “free elections” and always add “things Russians do not enjoy having”.
Where keeping power is the only principle relevant any question building on integrity is useless.
In fact NO question matters. The only thing that would is material force. It is the only thing these liars understand.
I doubt any of those hypocrits would engage with mothers whose sons were killed in a major European war even remotely the way Putin did when meeting the mothers two years ago, I believe. No, they would send some NGO or PR stooge and present a puff piece – or better, ignore them entirely, or – depending on the mood in the country in such a fiction – criticize them as pro-Russian or whatever.
I think Europeans critical of VdL or Kallas are often not aware of HOW dishonest an opportunistic they in fact are. That´s a slippery slope of incompetence and egotism. Just look at Baerbock, Habeck or Marin (Finland).
Zionists have killed Yemeni prime minister Ahmed al-Rahawi, or one of “the Houthis” in BBC, Al Jazeerah, and TASS-speak. They also killed the foreign minister and other ministers.
Yemeni soldiers wearing garlic around their necks:
https://tass.com/world/2009639
Yemeni news agency:
https://www.saba.ye/en
I am surprised so many Yemani Ministers and the Prime Minister have been killed in this Israeli strike, how could this not have been anticipated, Nasrallah and many Hezbollah leaders were killed not long ago in a decapitation strike. Then in June another strike on the Iranian leadership was successful, wiping out many Iranian top Commanders and Scientists. How can they travel over 2000 kilometers and bomb the Houthis Presidential palace so easily?
Harry Law,
” How can they travel over 2000 kilometers and bomb the Houthis Presidential palace so easily?”
With the help of US intelligence.
Courtenay
I believe you’ll find that the Yemeni government and the Houtie resistance are not necessarily the same thing. Recall the Houties were also fighting their own government during the recent war with Saudi.
Calling Yemen “the Houthis” is like calling the Jordanian government “the Hashemites” and the Bahraini government “the Khalifas”.
Yemen under the Houthi-run government stands out honourably as practically the only Arab country to support the Palestinians. This is why the regime is spoken of in a de-legitimising way. They would have been diplomatically recognised if they’d played the Arab League’s game.
Calling Yemen “the Houthis” is similar to calling the Palestinian authorities in Gaza “Hamas”.
Your zipper doesn’t look open.
Apart from the bits that had to be true because of witnesses and CCTV footage that survived the official purge, it’s all lies, the whole “official narrative”. How do we know? Because the “purged” footage has never been released and the only reason that there can be for that is that it contradicted the narrative.
I have a question here, possibly for Tatyana. It is in relation to Daria Dugova and her assassination by car bomb, just days after her father shared on Facebook his pride that she was now number one on the West’s list for sanctions. Facebook kindly translates other languages. She was an investigative journalist, looking into the deaths of businessmen falling from their balconies, with no sign of a break-in to their flats, suggesting that people involved in their deaths had been invited in.
The media pretended that her father was the target as a right wing nationalist extremist because he had been publishing his views and he expressed sadness than minority languages, religious festivals and regional dress across Russia and the Stans were being lost to global Americanisation of culture.
Another father and daughter team.
What was Daria publishing?
Her fate was the same as the whistleblower in Malta.
Was Yulia the target of the poisoning? Was the perfume box wrapping meant for her? Did she throw the box in the bin? Did the substance activate when they sat down to eat? Did it get on the doorknob after they returned home from feeding the ducks? Was the package addressed to Yulia and opened by her so that they both handled it and she decided she didn’t want it and threw it away? What was her role? Were the GRU agents following her?
Our spooks most probably know what the roles of both these Russian ladies were, and both have been minimised in the media in deference to their fathers. Minimised or erased and expecting people to overlook their importance. Jussayin. Just a tangential hypothesis. Parallel outcomes – ish.
I believe you’re referring to Darya Dugina: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62621509
Aleksandr Dugin is far right. He is also one of the biggest bullshitters alive, and he has “FSB” written all over him. Indeed he is the undisputed current holder of the Biggest FSB-Run Bullshitter in the World title, now that Vladimir Zhirinovsky has passed away.
(This does not justify the assassination of Dugin’s daughter. Nor the USA-isation of culture.)
Thanks for clearing that up … 🙂
I’m surprised, Brian.
I translated Dugin’s article for this site and gave my opinion about him.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/forums/topic/alexander-dugins-analysis-of-trumps-ideology/
His presentation of the basic concepts of philosophy, economics and politics is easy to understand. It was explained so clearly and precisely that I thought he must teach that to students.
His predictions about Russian culture came true and more than that. Now in Russia, the most popular music among young people is folk, Nadezhda Kadysheva fills stadiums and earns the highest fees, and young people took over TikTok and Instagram with videos of themselves in Russian kokoshniks singing about birches, rivers and similar folk lyrics.
Dugin didn’t leave the impression of a bulshitter.
Maybe he is far-right, I can’t give my opinion, I was never interested in his views.
Perhaps you react to his way of presenting information? Zhirinovsky was not taken seriously precisely because of this, although many of his predictions came true in reality.
It’s just hard to take seriously a person whose presentation is aggression, sarcasm, pressure and shouts as if he needs an exorcism 🙂
Dugin’s presentation is dramatic, compressed, full of allegories, abstractions and gives the impression that he needs the help of a psychiatrist.
The modern audience prefers George Carlin’s style better, I think.
“She was an investigative journalist, looking into the deaths of businessmen falling from their balconies, with no sign of a break-in to their flats, suggesting that people involved in their deaths had been invited in.”
I’d be interested in your sources for this. Please don’t say “Facebook”.
Haha Bayard. Of course I’m going to say Facebook. I read back through several weeks of their respective Facebook pages, as soon as the news broke. I saw the list of names her father posted said to be of interest to western governments.I couldn’t tell you anything about any of them and there was no detail regarding who ‘The West’ referred to with regards to whatever the term ‘Sanctions’ might have been expected to mean.
He was so proud of her work, and devastated by her death. She was a journalist so presumably had published enough to draw the assassins she was seeking, to find her.
But why the ‘West’s distraction to media interest in him instead of her?
Perhaps I am giving credence to the perfume bottle which may have been delivered before or after they went out feeding ducks, but opened before or when they went home, and then discarded as she didn’t want it. The tendency of men who only talk to men, to wish to dismiss women who are outside of their male networks, and spheres of influence, as being of no importance, is not new. There are a few elusive narratives which may or may not come to light in due course.
The importance of ethical government, abiding within rule of law, needs holding to account where wrongdoing by state actors is potentially of concern.
Thank you Craig
The West (as in wealthy investors), Russian oligarchs, Zionist ambitions, government agencies, are all capable of assassinating in order to control resources, and limit the range of truth. Many of the journalists and doctors working in Gaza are women who have been targeted.
Apple (owned by Israel since 2017) and Microsoft open access data sharing, and Starlink satellite internet services provide location services, facial recognition, and listening software.
As far as we know, Alyson, nobody gave a bottle of perfume to Yulia. The official story is that Russian GRU agents used a perfume bottle to apply Novichok to Sergei’s front door handle around noon on 4th March 2018. I don’t believe the official story, but I do believe that elements of the British security services (probably MI6) did apply Novichok – which any journey(wo)man synthetic chemist can make – to the door handle in the early hours of the same day.
Around four months later, I believe that those same elements placed a perfume bottle containing Novichok into the bin behind the Cancer Research charity shop for someone like Charlie to find, in the hope that they would give it to one of the women in their lives (in this instance, Dawn Sturgess), so that they would be exposed to the Novichok and die. This could then be blamed on the Russians having discarded their supposed bottle of Novichok in the bin, in order to further an anti-Russian agenda. Essentially, it was vile murderous misogyny to fuel Russophobia.
For details as to how I arrived at these beliefs, read my report:
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/forums/topic/the-salisbury-poisonings-episode-was-all-staged/page/6/#post-103404
Enjoy what’s left of the weekend.
There was no “novichok” in Salisbury. These “elements” you imagine are nonsense.
Spot on Tim. There’s was NO ‘Novichock’ in Salisbury.
However, there was and is ‘Novichok’ in Porton Down. One other element of this sordid story is that at the time of skripal the head of dstl Porton Down was replaced, by a political appointee, as he had veered off script.
Thanks for your reply Tim. It’s very difficult to prove a negative – unless you’re omnipotent. I’m never 100% certain of anything – that’s why I’m an agnostic, if a lapsed one. You appear to have a higher opinion of the UK security services than I do these days.
“She was a journalist so presumably had published enough to draw the assassins she was seeking, to find her.”
So the idea that she was killed by “assassins” from inside Russia is merely a presumption? Sure it’s possible, but even the Russophobes have been uncharacteristically quiet about it, which makes it unlikely.
“She was an investigative journalist, looking into the deaths of businessmen falling from their balconies, with no sign of a break-in to their flats, suggesting that people involved in their deaths had been invited in.”
People have been picking locks since locks were invented, thousands of years ago.
Alyson
You’re giving the perfume box story a lot of credence. Remember Charlie Rowley, her partner, couldn’t get his story right, claiming he broke the bottle that was later produced in tact.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5978565/Bottle-containing-Novichok-broke-nerve-agent-victim-Charlie-Rowleys-hand-brother-claims.html
Think of the context: the Skripals both survived, many European leaders were wavering on support for continued sanctions – everything should be seen in that context; namely , that of the US/UK desire to maintain pressure on Russia. Germany wished to retain its cheap Russian energy for its industry. From the US and UK govt’s perspective the initial diplomatic ‘shock value’ of a scary novichok attack had dissipated. The Sturgess story provided fresh fuel to the whole thing.
Related and maybe of interest: I was looking up the Dawn Sturgess story, and in the Mirror’s report here it expressly states that Sergei and Yulia started new lives in New Zealand.
Link : https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/innocent-salisbury-novichok-poisoning-victim-22178924
” many European leaders were wavering on support for continued sanctions ”
Who in particular?
In December 2017 the EU extended it’s existing sanctions to July 2018 and there was no indication it would not extend them again. Little sign of wavering there.
Russia still had good relations with : Austria – Putin had attended the then Austrian foreign minister’s wedding in August 2018 ; https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45229235 Hungary ; Slovakia and the Czech President, back then the President, Miloš Zeman was also seen as pro-Russia. Most important though was Angela Merkel, she too was perceived as been ‘soft ‘on Russia. Many put this down to her background . As a child, Merkel’s family moved from West Germany to East Germany, Merkel joined the Free German Youth (FDJ), the official communist youth movement sponsored by the ruling Marxist–Leninist Socialist Unity Party of Germany.
The US, UK have been accused of meddling in Eastern Europe in an attempt to banish parties and candidates perceived as pro-Russia. The Czech Republic is now led by former chairman of the NATO military committee,, Petr Pavel.- y’reckon by chance, or design? In Slovakia :
Fico accuses UK of election meddling, summons British ambassador
The UK Foreign Office dismissed as “completely untrue” allegations from PM Fico that it meddled in the country’s 2023 election.
At a one-hour press conference in Bratislava on Tuesday, Fico alleged that the UK’s Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (FCDO) funded the London-based communications company Zinc Network to run activities in Slovakia designed to “damage Smer [his party] and help Progresívne Slovensko (Progressive Slovakia)”.
“This is a targeted and deliberate act by a foreign power, our ally in NATO, to influence the internal democratic processes of the Slovak Republic,” Fico said. “It is an indisputable fact.”
https://spectator.sme.sk/politics-and-society/c/fico-accuses-uk-of-election-meddling-summons-british-ambassador
Craig has discussed the Integrity Initiative and Zinc Network. Only a fool wouldn’t understand what they’ve been doing. Some in the FCDO clearly think that the UK still rules the world.
This is how warped Russophobia can become, when you start undermining allies’ democracies simply because you are paranoid that Russia must be somehow meddling itself.
And I’d wager hardly anyone among our entire elected UK parliament knows about it. As with the target acquisition assistance SIGINT flights over Gaza, because to quote the stock ministerial response : “matters related to national security aren’t discussed in this place”. Great democracy, huh?
How many in Parliament would disapprove if they were told of meddling in other countries?
They all know about this government’s role in the Gaza Genocide and what have they done?
What’s amusing about Fico’s allegations, made last month, is the fact hardly a word about them has been mentioned on the BBC’s news or in the Guardian etc. Just imagine, had he accused Russia, it’d certainly have been prominently featured and reported, because it suits the narrative the govt is pushing.
Our press and wider news media have never been less independent, they’ve basically become like a western equivalent of Pravda. The whole anti-Russia ‘buy-in’ by the collective media in the UK(and US)that the intel services have achieved through the steady drip feed of negative stories about Russia, is a remarkable achievement. Reminds me of that famous alleged quote:
“We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.”
-William J. Casey, CIA Director
But they are evil, aren’t they? /s
zoot
Well that’s largely a Starmer problem. With Starmer as leader it feels like we have no separation between the security services and politics. If Starmer is part of the security apparatus – a Deep state functionary – as some allege, can this even be considered a civilian government? i.e., system of government led by individuals who are not part of the military or armed forces?
Yes, but what about the rest of them .. the other 650?
There can be no “if only Parliament had known” our righteous members would have been in uproar.
The reality is they all do know.
Goose
” With Starmer as leader it feels like we have no separation between the security services and politics. If Starmer is part of the security apparatus – a Deep state functionary ……..”
I’ve had the impression since Starmer’s back-front&side stabbing of Corbyn was * exposed * there was something off about him,and everything that’s happened since has confirmed those suspicions
His seemingly effortless progress through Labour , culminating like a nasty bout of diarrhoea through the U.K body splattering Deep Statesque shit all over our human/civil rights as P.M
He comes across – and behaves – like an AI. version of ” Other-agenda-serving programmable shapeshifting political atutomaton ”
The country may have been totally sick of the Tories, and that party itself a burnt-out derelict wreck after too long in unproductive ( for the mass of UK * citizens * ) power, under a succession of utterly worthless leaders- Johnson & Truss representing the nadir of that cartoonishly moronic trajectory : but the way they folded to electoral defeat with barely token resistance suggested to me the path was being cleared for someone/thing that was the chosen cipher of Security Services agenda advancement . Hence ……
Unequivocal , strident military, finacial, political support for Project Ukraine ( the ” Brits ” were in there from it’s inception , and long before )
Ditto the Zionihilist Greater Israel project : and sledgehammer police/judicial treatment of any protest against the latter
Complete surrender and obeisance to City of London/Global Capitalist interests
And now , despite the UK Economy being in perhaps the most precarious state in it’s history , embracing the ludicrous chimera of ” Military Keynsianism ” – another project guaranteed to fail dismally – more worryingly ……catastrophically
He, like his fellow delusional Idiotocracy Membership in the E.U/NATO nexus of nutcases would rather precipitate uncontrollable calamity than admit the utter folly of his/their past actions and the inevitable failure of their present & future ones .
They talk of peace and prepare for nothing but war, war, war
Every MP is completely aware that Starmer is enabling a genocide by supplying Israel with crucial f-35 parts, with aerial targeting services, with arms shipments from Akrotiri etc.
They all saw him claim that Israel has the right to deny the people of Gaza the necessities of life. They still hear him promoting the genocidal Hamas mass rape hoax (and Lammy claiming they “raped babies”).
With the exception of half a dozen or so, every British MP must be considered complicit in Starmer’s genocidal actions.
There is no get-out of “if only Parliament had known”. They all know.
Modern parliaments are a creation of the bourgeoisie’s use of its mass media. You can plot this through British history. Printed media spread to this small section of the population – then they got the vote. Then it spread to this slightly larger section – and they got the vote. Et cetera.
This is why it’s not surprising that children aged 16 and 17 will be able to vote in the next British general election.
Create mugs. Tell ’em they’re free to think this, that, or the other – so long as it’s based on respect for the rulers, their enforcing authorities, and private property. Give them the vote. Then … time for a cull.
“Customers who viewed this item also viewed”
The absurd Skripal case | Tim Norman interviewed by Mats Nilsson in Dissidentklubben @ Rumble on 2025-08-27
Articles by Tim Norman on Schrödinger’s novichok etc. @ propagandainfocus.com
Articles by John Helmer re Skripal @ Dances With Bears
Long Live Novichok! The British poison which fooled the world, by John Helmer (2025) @ Amazon
Skripal in Prison, by John Helmer (2020) @ Amazon
Tom Secker @ spyculture.com mostly on the propagandistic and storytelling side of the affair:
Maximum Stupidity: The Novichok Extradition article (2018-08-07)
ClandesTime Special – Conspiracy Theories: The Salisbury Poisoning podcast (2018-08-04) “In this special episode [Tom Secker examines] the theories, the context and the lies surrounding the poisoning of the Skripals, resisting the temptation to conspiracy theorise [him]self.”
Subscriber Podcast #18 – How Pop Culture Predictively Programmed a Poisoning (preview) podcast (2018-04-14) “a not-to-be-missed in-depth exploration of how the entire Salisbury Poisoning story was sold to us through popular culture”
“Novichok” means “newie” in Russian. It’s not a chemical name, top secret or otherwise.
Say it in Russian to make it sound sinister, as though the opponent has been caught out (while watching out for the Houthi-Poothies and Khamasss).
Brit state propagandists think they are so clever – or is it just they think their main audience are cretins?
I wonder how good they’d be at persuading someone to believe their lies who wasn’t an idiot to begin with, and who had some familiarity with the basic techniques of propaganda?
One could of course ask, since the success of “Covid”, why would they put resources into more sophisticated persuasive techniques anyway, when they don’t need to.
You got everyone picking their phones all day long, you don’t have much to worry about when controlling a country.
The Salisbury “Novichok” False Flag is one of those geo political events . After the fall of the Berlin wall Russia was no longer the scary enemy invited to join the big world summits with all the other world leaders. But the Red scare and cold war would once again be required.
The plan to force Russia into the Ukraine war were well under way. We all remember 15-year-old Nayirah al-Ṣabaḥ giving her false testimony to the United States Congressional Human Rights Caucus on October 10, 1990, two months after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait baby’s taken from incubators and left on the floor used by George Bush snr to help get the vote for desert storm.
When it was Libya’s turn to be destroyed they used the Manchester Arena false flag. The John Barr video and much other primary evidence was not shown or examined in any of the inquires into the Manchester attack I wonder why. Instead they chose to vilify and bankrupt the one reporter that did send them the evidence in a rigged trial does this video match the narrative.
https://archive.org/details/jbf_20240229
The Manchester Arena event was a terrible thing, and minimising the damage caused to the lady with a bolt through her leg is not fair. No doubt the operation to remove it caused lasting damage, and the chap bleeding on the floor in the footage was in a bad way.
False Flag, yes. We have come to expect atrocities from our own side against us when atrocities have been planned to be perpetrated against designated ‘enemies’ to the financial services which benefit powerful individuals. ‘We’ told Gaddafi that ‘we’ would not allow him to establish a pan-Arab/pan-African banking system run on Islamic lines, with no interest payments on borrowing, just an upfront fee to be repaid first, as clearly laid out in Saif Gaddafi’s PhD thesis which was later disallowed on grounds of plagiarism. His LSE tutor resigned in disgust at the government interference.
Where is Saif now? I hope he is safe and free from detention
“The rocket bombs which fell daily on London were probably fired by the Government of Oceania itself, ‘just to keep people frightened’. This was an idea that had literally never occurred to him.”
There’s nothing paranoid conspiracy theorists don’t think is a false flag. The Abedi family fled Libya before the brothers were born because they were opponents of Gaddafi’s regime. There was never any suggestion of Libyan government involvement.
My GF’s neighbour’s 16 year old daughter was caught up in this event. She wasn’t badly hurt physically, crush injuries mainly, but got separated from her ‘phone and was listed as ‘missing’ until three o’clock the following afternoon. You can perhaps imagine the anguish her parents went through. Perhaps you’d like to explain to them that she was nothing but a crisis actor and a liar.
” The plan to force Russia into the Ukraine war were well under way. ”
Oh grow up.
Has anyone suggested there was Libyan government involvement? Abedi carried out the attack, but the destruction of Libya was to prevent changes to financial markets and banking systems, as was made clear would happen by Tony Blair informing Gaddafi we would not allow it.
The deduction being proposed is that Abedi was groomed to carry out the attack so that the British public would support regime change in Libya. Other scenarios may be equally valid, as theories relating to the timing of this terrible tragedy
Alyson
From memory Gaddafi wanted to sell oil In a Pan African currency.
Similarly Saddam Hussein wanted to sell Iraq’s oil in Euros.
The US does not like non dollar operations.
It seems very unlikely that the Libyan government had anything to do with the Manchester Arena bombing, but that doesn’t make it any less likely that the British government did. There has been an amazing series of coincidences whereby a terror attack has occurred just before a major European election, always with the perpetrator, or suspected perpetrator being shot dead and usually with their passport being found nearby. When the Manchester Arena bombing happened, I was waiting to see what form the next one would take and was hoping it would be like the man on the bridge and the narwhal tusk incident, not the mass slaughter of teenagers. Quite possibly that wasn’t “supposed” to happen, but I’m pretty damn certain something was. That the teenagers died as a result of the incompetence of our security services will be no consolation to their relaives.
If you believe that you can have a bolt blast through your leg and walk around in high heals as if nothing has happened
You are in the pigs can fly category. It is also perfectly normal that after blowing himself to bits Abedi’s bank card should survive.
The crater caused by the bomb turned out to be a few slightly blackened floor tiles as shown in the police video.
The reported sky light , glass door and market stall destruction is also proved incorrect by photo and drone video.
We only hear the guy on the floor and the slight possible blood does not match the rivers of blood from thousands if shrapnel reported. There is so much more evidence like how the lighting survived intact. But they like you to believe at least six impossible things before breakfast.
Having walked around on a broken leg after a traffic accident I can assure you shock is an excellent anaesthetic, and remembering the guy who was stabbed in the thigh at Notting Hill and bled to death, I would say that that stain on her trouser leg indicated a pretty steady flow, from a deep, life threatening injury, albeit with nothing much to see on the surface. Her concern for the more seriously injured Scot whose shoes had been blown off is very kind.
Denial is your prerogative of course and thankfully neither of us was there
She is photographed a hour or more later still wearing the same clothes the wound has not been treated and the stain has dried out. So did not bleed to death despite no treatment.
There is no evidence of building damage a composite of the redacted CCTV shows no blood and no crime scene preservation. There is also the bickerstaf video he is walking around the corridor claiming to have witnessed the carnage. But no one else is reacting You can here him but not the emergency announcements a man a Kenny in the video would be in the Arena not the corridor when the sound of the supposed bomb was heard and would film the panic in the Arena.