In fascist lockstep, the entire British media, broadcast and print, corporate and state, is leading with a Ministry of Defence press release about a “Russian spy ship” inside “British waters”.
No British media appears to have been able to speak to anybody who knows the first thing about the Law of the Sea.
Here are the facts:
The Exclusive Economic Zone extends 200 miles from the coastal baselines. The Continental Shelf can extend still further, as a fact of geology, not an imposed maximum.
On the Continental Shelf the coastal state is entitled to the mineral resources. In the Exclusive Economic Zone the coastal state is entitled to the fisheries and mineral resources.
For purposes of navigation, both the Continental Shelf and Exclusive Economic Zone are part of the High Seas. There is freedom of navigation on the High Seas. Foreign ships, including foreign military ships, may come and go as they please. Nor is there any ban on “spying” – exactly as there is no restriction on spying from satellites.
The Territorial Waters of a state extend out to just twelve miles. These are subject to the internal legislation of the coastal state. There is freedom for foreign vessels, including military vessels, to pass through them but only subject to the rule of “innocent passage” – which specifically rules out spying and reconnaissance. In the territorial sea, vessels have to be genuinely just passing through on their way somewhere, otherwise they may need coastal state permission for their activity.
The Exclusive Economic Zone is subject to the rules of the coastal state only in relation to the reserved economic activities to which the state is entitled. Scientific research is specifically free for all states within the Exclusive Economic Zone.
The Russian ship Yantar has been just outside the UK territorial waters. It is therefore under “freedom of navigation” and not under “innocent passage”. It is free to do scientific research.
I don’t doubt it is really gathering intelligence on military, energy and communications facilities. That is what states do. The UK does it to Russia all the time, on the Black Sea, the Barents Sea, the Baltic, and elsewhere. Not to mention 24/7 satellite surveillance.
It is perfectly legal for the Yantar to do this. Personally I wish the entire world would stop such activity, but to blame the Russians given the massive levels of surveillance and encirclement they suffer from NATO assets is simply ludicrous.
Not to mention the ultimate hypocrisy that the UK has been flying intelligence missions over Gaza every single day and feeding targeting information to aid the Gaza genocide.
The UK’s allies blew up Russia’s Nord Stream pipeline. The UK is now accusing the Yantar precisely of scouting this same kind of attack – which we endorsed when the pipeline was Russian.
For example HMS Sutherland, accompanied by Royal Fleet Auxiliary Tidespring, and two other NATO warships penetrated 160 miles into Russia’s Exclusive Economic Zone and lingered 40 miles from Russia’s Severomorsk naval base. There was no pretence they were doing anything other than gathering intelligence and sounding out defences.
In armed forces media the UK boasted it was an assertion of freedom of navigation. Yet we harass the Russian vessel equally on the High Seas for exercising its freedom of navigation.
That was also perfectly legal. The idea that the same activity is worthy when we do it, but a pretext for war if the Russians do it, is so childish as to be beyond ridicule. But there is not one single mainstream journalist willing to call it out.
As this photo of HMS Somerset illegally threatening the Yantar on the High Seas shows, forcing it into dangerous moves, the aggression is not from the Russians. That British jets illegally buzzing the Yantar have been met with lasers designed to disrupt attacks. That is not the Russian aggression John Healy claims. The nonsense about dazzling pilots’ eyes is sheer invention.
Unless the plane is extremely, extremely low or a very long way away it is a physical impossibility to shine a laser into a pilot’s eyes in a modern warplane, from below in a ship. The pilot won’t be looking at the ship out of the window, but will be looking at his screens and the image from the cameras under the plane. These might be disrupted by the lasers – and a perfectly valid and sensible defensive measure that is too.
This is the Eurofighter Typhoon.
Imagine it in the skies way above you and look at its body, particularly the front end – how would you get line of sight on the pilot? You couldn’t. Lasers only go in straight lines.
Most sinister of all is the universal state control of media that gets every single mainstream outlet booming out the propaganda narrative, all entirely without question.
This war talk is of course the normal refuge of extremely unpopular governments. But it is part of a wider tightening of the grip of the military-industrial complex on the state. Starmer is committed to increasing military expenditure by tens of billions of pounds a year, while imposing austerity on the rest of the economy. In Scotland, we are told that the closure of major industrial sites like Grangemouth and Mossmorran will be compensated by opening new weapons factories.
Beating ploughshares into swords.
The rise of domestic racism and authoritarianism is accompanied by the increase in militarism and the desire to portray Russia and China as enemy states with whom we are already in a state of proto-war. The state has a mainstream media which is showing itself willing to pump out even the most thin propaganda to this end with no interrogation whatsoever.
Western democracy has already died. Not everybody has yet noticed.
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See also the sentencing of Nathan Gill to 10 and a half years after the police used Schedule 3 of the Counter-Terrorism and Border Security Act, which is not the same as Schedule 7 of the Terrorism Act. The former covers hostile acts that aren’t terrorism, with “hostile” supposedly meaning hostile to Britain, not hostile to the government in Kiev or hostile to the Zionist occupation of Palestine. Ten years is more than many rapists get.
He pleaded guilty to 8 counts of bribery and got what he deserved. He sold out and sold out cheap. Makes you wonder how many other ‘Putinbots’ are getting ‘postcards’ from Moscow.
So now you’re a principled opponent of British politicians accepting bribes from foreign nations, and want the recipients to receive prison sentences..?
Do you know how many British parliamentarians, especially those at the very top, are being bribed by Israel.. and are knowingly aiding it in shredding babies?
What is the appropriate prison sentence, in your view, for accepting bribes from this depraved, genocidal state and actively participating in its mass slaughter of the most vulnerable people imaginable?
Would I be correct in guessing “none”?
You guess wrong, as always. Anyone taking bribes deserves the same.
Am I right in detecting some sympathy for Gill because of the Russian connection.
I have no sympathy for him whatsoever.
But this is an incredible revelation from someone who I thought was an acolyte of Britain’s corrupt establishment.
You want every British parliamentarian being bribed by Israel (or BlackRock, private health investors etc) to be put behind bars?
Up to and including the Israeli-owned genocidaires at the top, Starmer, Sunak, Cameron, Lammy, Cooper et al??
Wow.
When do you think they should they be tried and jailed? And what is the process to ensure they are not replaced in Parliament by equally venal characters?
And should those at the top get more time than this Reform nonentity because they also abetted Israel’s Genocide (and imprisoned British people who protested it)?
zoot
November 22, 2025 at 08:19
Gill pleaded guilty.
None of the ministers who have abetted genocide have even been arrested, despite the hideous impact of their bribes on tiny bodies in Gaza.
When do you think these people should be arrested and questioned about the bribes, given there won’t be any answer from Pears?
” someone who I thought was an acolyte of Britain’s corrupt establishment. ”
Once again you thought wrong.
I don’t think so somehow, evidenced by your refusal to answer any of my questions.
“Anyone taking bribes deserves the same.
But the point is that they don’t get it, yet you don’t seem unduly fussed by that.
Also Gill’s bribes can be sneered at, because they involve cash. That’s so un-British! Doesn’t the horrid little man realise the right way to do these things is to wait until you leave politics and then be rewarded with a large advance on your memoirs, some highly-paid speaking tours and a non-executive directorship or two. Brown envelopes are so grubby!
The fact is that taking bribes is acceptable to the Westminster scum, as long as it’s from the right bribers. Obviously, Russia, China and Iran are problematic for our principled representatives as would be taking bribes from the wrong sort of Jews. IMO politicians taking bribes from anyone should be classified as an act of treason, for which the penalty is, or should be, hanging.
zoot
November 22, 2025 at 09:23
I’m not English.
Pols in any country who accept bribes, in particular from foreign enemies, should be prosecuted and if convicted they should receive long custodial sentences.
JK: “…. in particular from foreign enemies …. “
A subtle but important distinction. A bribe from a foreign country that is an official friend is nothing more sinister than a ‘campaign contribution’ because that foreign country loves us so much, and for which nothing whatsoever is expected in return.
Of course.
It’s an irregular verb.
“I go on all expenses-paid factfinding trips to Israel”.
“You receive campaign donations.”
“He’s doing 10 years for bribery”.
Interesting that it was an ex-politician who was jailed and none of the squeaky clean current members of any of the four parliaments or mayors’ offices.
Can’t recall the last time a civil servant, senior spook, special adviser, or senior officer in the armed forces ever got investigated for bribery either – or even “only” for having too close a relationship with a handler at the US embassy.
But in Britain nobody even has the guts to call a “think tank” a lobby group. Which is great if you’re chairman of the education select committee at the very same time that you run a
lobby group>think tank.Nor for that matter does anyone in public life dare suggest that a convict’s sentencing day might possibly be arranged to contribute to the government’s public relations – with Nathan Gill, for example, to push the idea of the Russian danger.
The line must always be kept to that the state is not corrupt, and that “safe pairs of hands” in the judiciary and the House of Lords must not be impugned. (Michelle Mone doesn’t count here. Nobody would call someone like her a safe pair of hands.)
“It’s an irregular verb.
“I go on all expenses-paid factfinding trips to Israel”.
“You receive campaign donations.”
“He’s doing 10 years for bribery”.”
Thanks for that.
Think of the large number of professional Brits who work closely with colleagues from the USA, who really love the USA, and who act as conduits for USA influence – far more than were ever agents of Moscow. Those who haven’t yet become brain drainers would love nothing more than celebrating honky cracker-face “Thanksgiving” with their horrible arrogant children. Some are pushing for war against Russia, their only criticism of the USA being that they think too many people on the Hill have snow on their boots. It’s hyena time.
But this isn’t the point. The point is the draconian use of counter-terrorism and anti-hostility legislation, including at airports, and the way, as Craig rightly says, the MSM are in lockstep. There has been practically no criticism of the length of Gill’s sentence, or the way Schedule 3 was used, and much of the MSM is referring to “terrorism” in the coverage, when Gill has, AFAIAA, never been suspected of anything to do with terrorism. The distinction between Schedule 3 of the Counter-Terrorism and Border Security Act and Schedule 7 of the Terrorism Act becomes irrelevant when those who control the state and media are basically saying ha ha ha, an enemy of the people has been caught, everything he gets serves him right, and everything the terrorism police do is right too, because there are lots of these enemies of the people about, who are either working for Russia or might as well be.
Israel is more easily proveable than the USA if the charge is bribery by a foreign state, especially given British ministers’ role in enabling the Genocide and outlawing dissent against it.
Every one of them has pocketed money from Israel lobbyists. All clearly documented in the public record.
‘Friends of Israel’ implies you’ve been bribed and are a fifth columnist, simples.
“Every one of them has pocketed money from Israel lobbyists. All clearly documented in the public record”.
But apparently that is quite OK! To borrow Harold Pinter’s famous words, which apply to so many political situations these days:
“It never happened. Nothing ever happened. Even while it was happening it wasn’t happening. It didn’t matter. It was of no interest”.
I suppose the “logic” would be along the lines of “Everyone of good will is obviously 100% on the side of Israel anyway. So there would be no point in bribing them to be on the side of Israel”.
Although that does rather raise the question: why was the money given then? Kindness? I think that somewhere in the Talmud it does say that random gifts of large sums of money to Gentiles are meritorious.
“Makes you wonder how many other ‘Putinbots’ are getting ‘postcards’ from Moscow.”
Other? Gill was bribed by an Ukranian. I take it you are in favour of a world where speaking the truth lays you open to be branded as a shill. Should we all instil in our children the virtue of being good liars now? ” Now dear, it’s rarely a good idea to tell the truth, you must learn to lie convincingly, that way you will get on in the world and become rich and famous. Just look at that nice Mr Johnson.”
The money came from Moscow.
Little respect is due a person who expresses whatever opinions he is paid to express.
But what pressure may have been exerted on Gill to cause him to plead guilty? He was accused of being paid to make pro-Russian statements in public to pro-Russian media…and of being paid to make pro-Russian speeches in the EU parliament.
On the first, you gotta ask how many people pay their own travel costs to BBC studios; or go on the BBC and call the king a crook; or belong to the cabinet, oppose a proposal, and then decide to pretend they support it in order to stay in their job – i.e. they’re paid to express an opinion they don’t hold. (In the USSR this was called “democratic centralism”. In Britain it’s called “collective responsibility”.)
On the second, isn’t conviction for a crime supposed to depend on the behaviour, were it to be repeated at the time of the conviction, still being criminal? (E.g. no man is prosecuted nowadays for having engaged in consensual sex with another man before 1967 when it was a crime.)
You would have thought Gill might have come up with a defence. Sounds like he may have been threatened with something worse than 10 years in jail. Or of course he could be a complete and utter idiot, which is a possibility.
“The money came from Moscow.”
Any proof of that, or is this axiomatic? Why would Moscow pay this bumbling fool to mumble a few truths about the current regime in Kiev? Who would they be trying to fool if it were propaganda? The pro and anti lines in the EU Parliament had already hardened to an adamantine level. One side would simply dismiss them as Kremlin propaganda and telling the other would be like preaching to the choir.
I notice you don’t answer my other point about recommending a habit of untruthfulness.
Give me a break. Like, Ukrainian oligarchs have no money of their own.
“Little respect is due a person who expresses whatever opinions he is paid to express”.
That would include most, if not all, of the UK Parliament and the US Congress.
The intelligent and honest have traditionally agreed.
“Il est dangereux d’avoir raison dans des choses ou des hommes accrédités ont tort”.
(“It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong”).
– Voltaire, “Catalogue pour la plupart des écrivains français qui ont paru dans Le Siècle de Louis XIV, pour servir à l’histoire littéraire de ce temps,” Le Siècle de Louis XIV (1752).
“Being right too soon is socially unacceptable”.
– Robert A. Heinlein
“In any great organization it is far, far safer to be wrong with the majority than to be right alone”.
– John Kenneth Galbraith
James Russell Lowell, A Stanza on Freedom:
“They are slaves who fear to speak
For the fallen and the weak;
They are slaves who will not choose
Hatred, scoffing, and abuse,
Rather than in silence shrink
From the truth they needs must think;
They are slaves who dare not be
In the right with two or three.”
There was no connection to Moscow in his case.
Was he busted for taking Russian bribes, rather than zionist ones?
Those were Ukrainian bribes, not Russian.
Bayard
November 24, 2025 at 18:50
For what are Russia soldiers dying in Ukraine?
“For what are Russia soldiers dying in Ukraine?”
To liberate Ukraine from a puppet government put in place by foreign powers in 2014, I expect.
If you pull back and zoom out, so the whole picture comes into view, it’s astonishing how blatant a double standard obtains. Arresting, let alone convicting and imprisoning, politicians for taking bribes to say particular things… that’s what virtually all modern Western politicians do for a living. If they stopped being mouthpieces for special vested interests, I doubt whether most of them would have anything to say at all. Convictions? Objective knowledge? Altruism? Sorry mate, wrong number.
As Gore Vidal explained in his memoir “Point to Point Navigation”,
‘Senator Cranston explained the facts of the new politics to me. ‘Say you’re elected to a six-year term as senator. Say you would like to be elected to a second term. Unless you sell out to one of the great lobbies, you will be obliged to raise ten thousand dollars each week for every week of your first term. That’s 312 weeks”.
Every single US senator has decided to accept that bargain. Who do you think supplies each of them with $10,000/week – or a sum greatly increased since Senator Cranston’s words back in the 1970s – and what do you think they expect to get in return? Certainly something a great deal more tangible and valuable than a few words in favour of Russia.
Look what British ministers have delivered in return for their bribes from Israel lobbyists.
Yes – Nathan Gill could surely have argued that the CPS were abusing judicial process by prosecuting him for accepting Russian money but not prosecuting the many politicians who have accepted money from the USA, the Occupation regime in Palestine, and Ukraine. To take the second of these, that would be practically all members of their party’s Friends of Israel grouping for starters.
It is not as if Britain and Russia are at war, FFS.
“It is not as if Britain and Russia are at war, FFS.”
Not that a significant proportion of the more influential section of the population wouldn’t like them to be (so long as they, or their nearest and dearest aren’t likely to be in firing line, that is).
I believe that the police might have used Schedule 3 of the Counter Terrorism Act to detain Gill at the airport en route to Moscow, Brian, but that he was eventually charged under the Bribery Act. I know the powers that be want to embarrass Farage, but I was absolutely stunned at him getting ten-and-a-half years (which as you alluded to is more than most horrible child rapists). All the usual leftist suspects on here applauding it should realise that it sets an appalling precedent because, addition to the speeches to a nearly empty EU Parliament, he was given five year sentences (despite pleading guilty) merely for appearances on Ukrainian TV channels. This is not bribery, it is simply appearance fees. To give a similar example, between 2009 and 2012, Jeremy Corbyn was paid around £20,000 to appear on Iran’s Press TV, Iran being a country that was under far more Western sanctions than Russia was before its invasion of Ukraine. In the unlikely event that Your Party develops any serious traction, the authorities now have a way of ensuring that he likely dies in jail. It’s utterly horrendous.
Probably partly explained by Reform’s rise and their stubbornly resilient poll lead. A poll predicts the Tories could hold as few as 14 seats if an election were called today. This is being used as a stick to beat Farage’s party with, despite no suggestion they are implicated.
I haven’t followed the case, but that sentence does seem harsh. He was an MEP, right; British MEPs quit January 31, 2020. Russia’s full invasion proper of Ukraine didn’t commence until February 2022. So whether he would have acted differently today, is an open question. We’ve had scandals like the ‘cash for questions’ scandal in both the HoC and HoL. Senior political figures(grandees) caught up in the ‘cash for access’ scandal that hit Jack Straw and Sir Malcolm Rifkind , who were covertly filmed by a BBC investigative team with them offering ministerial ‘access,’ and they faced no punishment – because, wait for it… they broke no lobbying rules?! Huh? Then Labour MP, Ruth Smeeth, was all but outed as an alleged informant “Strictly Protect’ status attached, and has faced no consequences – proving the rules are a selectively enforced, hypocritical mess. Starmer, employed Assaf Kaplan, of Israeli military intelligence unit 8200, in his office and put him in charge of social media monitoring and gave gawd knows what access to members data?
The only difference is the Emperor Palpatine-esque bogeyman Putin has become, for the western liberal elites, smarting over their own unpopularity, that is what makes this a big deal.
According to accounts I have read it was the FBI that first tipped off the British police about Nathan Gill when investigating journalist Oleg Voloshyn in connection with a visit to the USA. Voloshyn acted as intermediary for the paymaster Medvedchuk.
The Bribery Act 2010 is aimed mainly at business and corporations. But prosecutions of these have been few and there have been only about 100 in all, split between individual bribers and bribe takers.
Gill is the only elected representative to have been prosecuted under the Act and received its maximum sentence of 10 years.
Note no MPs prosecuted for taking bribes from the Israeli lobby or anyone else as yet.
Medvedchuk is certainly pro – Russian but he is still a Ukrainian politician to the core and whose corruption needs to be set alongside the current Ukraine corruption scandals, which are certainty just the tip of the iceberg.
The bribing of Gill coincided with Medvedchuk’s return to active Ukrainian politics in 2018 after a 12 – 14 year absence leading his Russian leaning For Life faction, which secured 37 or so seats in the 2019 parliamentary election.
Zelenski gaoled Medvedchuk as part of his purging of the opposition and banned his party, so much for Ukrainian democracy. He landed up in Russia in the first prisoner of war swop in part exchange for the far right Mariupol Azovs.
Media of course will ignore all this. “Spying for Russia” conveniently sweeps the endemic corruption in Ukraine right under the carpet.
If Nathan Gill had had any sense, he would have used Medvedchuk’s offer to get a better offer from the Israelis. Then he would probbly got a pat on the back, not a prison sentence.
Given the source of the money, I would expect that his speeches were anti the current Ukrainian regime more than pro the Russian one, but then so many people cannot or will not tell the difference any more. So many, some even on these blog comments, cannot think further than the idee fixe that the only reason for doubting a piece of anti-Russian propaganda or preferring peace to war is an undying love for the Russian state, or even one for Vladimir Putin personally.
To paraphrase Gore Vidal the visible corruption in the Ukraine is not the tip of the iceberg, it is the tip of a glacier
the Ukrainian representative at the UN has given the response to Trump’s 28 part peace proposals, she has rejected any Russian take over of any part of Ukraine and wants a 600,000 Ukrainian army, she wants Ukraine to have alliances with anyone the Ukrainian government sees fit. Larry Johnson former CIA Analyst speaking on Danial Davis podcast ‘deep dive’ thinks the woman is delusional, Larry Johnson likens her to the Black Knight in the Monty Python film.
https://youtu.be/z9NNNmVYHII?si=UsRrvQG_lUFbkHR8
Harry Law
November 22, 2025 at 17:51
Damn that crazy woman for maintaining her country’s sovereignty.
Just surrender and make Бункерный дед happy.
You sense that it makes No.
The Ukranian’s have lost a tremendous amount of soldiers, they have lost half the population, failure to do a deal now will mean Russia will have no alternative than to proceed with it’s SMO which could involve the seizure of Russian speaking Odessa and other areas. Trump was right for the first time n his life, Ukraine has no cards to play. If the Europeans insist on the Ukrainian UN Representatives red lines, then they will go the way of Ukraine, demoralized, defeated and humiliated by their electorates or worse. The Black Knight analogy was entirely appropriate.
In my opinion the bottom line was given by former US State Dept official James Carden. “The Ukrainians will be ceding what they have been attacking since 2014, the Ukrainians are being disingenuous here. They want the land in the Dombas, but they don’t want the ethnic Russian citizens on that land, Putin is in effect giving the Ukrainian’s what they want, which is a Ukraine for ethnic Ukrainians, that would be a way to get rid of what they wanted to do i.e. expel the ethnic Russians. It is not something that is said in public, but it happens to be the truth.
” The Ukranian’s have lost a tremendous amount of soldiers, ”
According to who? I wasn’t aware the Ukrainians had released any numbers and they’re the only one who would know.
JK redux
The ukrainian government is free to wage the war as long as they want, but they cannot force the US to fight as long as they want.
“Damn that crazy woman for maintaining her country’s sovereignty.”
I take it you would still be in favour of maintaining sovereignty if it meant you, or members of your immediate family, being conscripted and put in the firing line.or does the allure of war dim a little when personal involvement looms?
Point 14 of the
Kushner and Dimitriev [*]Trump plan says1. $100bn in frozen Russian assets will be invested in US-led projects in Ukraine, half the profits from which will go to “the US”, which doesn’t seem as though it means the US government.
2. The remainder of the frozen funds will be invested in a separate US-Russian investment vehicle.
3. Frozen European funds will be unfrozen. (Doesn’t that require European countries’ agreement?)
So we can call it the Billionaires from New York and Moscow plan. (Are they scared about Chinese weapons or something?) Still, if it means an end to this wretched war, it should be welcomed. Only blood drinkers want this war to continue.
Interesting that Putin has agreed to Point 1, equivalent to handing over $50bn to Trump and Kushner.
Note
*) Kirill Dimitriev, key Russian negotiator, used to work for Goldman Sachs.
“Only blood drinkers want this war to continue.”
They’re not blood drinkers, they are people who believe in the defence of countries’ soverereignty (preferably countries where they don’t reside, but it’s the principle that counts, innit?).
So the US are going to meet with EU / Ukraine in Geneva and obviously the latter parties will vehemently reject the deal
How many times have we not seen this grandstanding charade by Trump now? Trump propose a “peace” proposal > The EU/Ukraine reject the deal (and promise to do more themselves) and Trump will fold and will flip the script and talk about how Ukraine could really win the war. Then the war will go on for some more months and the peace-effort-charade will go on reprise.
All these european puppet states needs to be put in their place and get a reality check that Ukraine could not win this war, prolonging it further will only see Ukraine lose more lives and more land.
Lets see how tough europeans are when/if US take off their hand from Ukraine, obviously they will then shut up.
I’m sick of Starmer, Merz and Macron raising objections on behalf of Ukraine to scupper progress. Take, for example, their demand emerging tonight, that Ukraine shouldn’t have to reduce its army’s size, Ukraine’s military is currently the largest in Europe, with approximately 980,000 personnel. if they cut it in half, to roughly 500k, it’d still be larger than France’s (200k) and the U.K.’s(138k) combined. Why would an impoverished country need such a massive army?What use would it be? And think of the post -conflict political context or backdrop in Ukraine. Zelenskyy couldn’t implement Donbas devolution(federalism/self-rule) envisaged in MinskI&II because the hardline ultra nationalists were claiming devolving power from Kyiv to Russian speaking areas would amount to treason. These far-right nationalists : Azov Battalion, Pavyi Sektor and Svoboda are going to be ruling the country, if Starmer , Macron and Merz get their way – with a million men under arms – a recipe for trouble. Ukraine needs to be de-fanged and weened-off militarism. A perceived unfair deal , will be all these ultra-nationalists need.
Back to Macron and Starmer, they’re like a pair of preening blowhards. They can’t send our troops, because a thousand coffins returning each week to either Blighty, France or Germany, would quickly reveal the public’s distaste for this war, and the press would flip following public opinion. It’d make their already shaky political positions untenable. But so blinded by their hatred of Russia, it’s become overly personal, they can’t countenance concessions. But the U.S. is being realistic in acknowledging both sides need to get something they can sell from any peace deal. Some, like the dreadfully overpromoted and completely out of her depth, Kallas, want to impose Victor’s justice on Russia, skipping the ‘defeat’ part. Kallas wants Russia humiliated like the Japanese were humiliated, by their official signed surrender, that took place on the deck of USS Missouri in Tokyo Bay.
” Ukraine’s military is currently the largest in Europe, with approximately 980,000 personnel. ”
Err. They are at war. How many Russian troops are they facing?
Pears Morgaine
November 22, 2025 at 22:22
Russia needs to defeat Ukraine before they get to impose partial or complete disarmament….
Trump really is Putin’s bitch. The compromat must be extraordinary…
Theorists and supporters of national bourgeois representative democracy – and this is especially so where there’s an elected executive presidency, as in the majority of permanent UNSC members – have never solved the problem of what happens when the people elect a tyrannical traitor.
Are the secret police supposed to step in? Against the head of state who has taken an oath?
“Err. They are at war. How many Russian troops are they facing?”
Do you understand the purpose of a peace plan? It’s to, er, bring peace, you know, the situation where the country is no longer at war. Under the Starmer/Merz/Macron plan, the Ukraine peacetime army would then still be 980,000. Do you not agree that it is normal for a country to demob much of its army when a war is over?
Goose
November 22, 2025 at 21:47
Perhaps you should consider why Putin wants the Ukrainian military reduced in size.
It could be to spare the Ukrainian Government the cost of maintaining such a large military establishment.
That could be the reason. If so a kind and a thoughtful initiative.
Or it could be to make the next Russkiy Drang Nach Westen a lot easier.
What gets lost in all this, because it’s some time ago and fades into memory, was that Ukraine was deeply destabilised by the Euromaidan revolution in late 2013-14, Ukraine had a civil war simmering from 2014, right up to the Russian invasion in February 2022. Revisionists try to pretend Ukraine was happy and unified before big bad Russia came along in 2022.
As for today. If Ukraine gets sufficient security guarantees, i.e. Nato response in characteristic, albeit without formal NATO membership, and Russia passes laws, as it has said it would, and as required – making formal no further territorial claims on Ukraine – the idea Russia will want to come back for another attritional slog, heading west, in an attempt to conquer those completely hostile, and with certain Nato-type response, seems absurd. So again, why does Ukraine need to maintain such a high state of readiness, and further militarise, a la von der Leyen’s ‘steel porcupine’ proposals?
Finland’s hawkish former Prime Minister, Sanna Marin, said more should have been done to oppose the takeover of Crimea in 2014; she pondered why the world didn’t react? They didn’t react because Russia entered without a shot being fired and were broadly welcomed by the Russian speaking population there. Therein lies the problem when also talking about Eastern Ukraine; if allowed to determine freely, whose side would they be on? That split loyalty issue is not an issue in western parts of Ukraine. In reality, Ukraine should probably have been two countries, split by the Dnieper river.
” if allowed to determine freely, whose side would they be on?”
You can’t have people determining things freely, they might return the Wrong Answer, look at the Brexit vote, look at the Romanian election, look at the Irish EU vote.
JK
At 600.000, the Ukrainian army would be by far the largest on the European continent (Russia excepted) would it not?
And of course, your attempt at sarcasm notwithstanding, maintaining an army of 600.000 would indeed be cheaper than maintaining one of 900.000. Quite important, I would say, given that Ukraine is apparently so cash-strapped that it needs 100s of billions from the West?
I have not looked up exact numbers, but I believe that neutral Finland after WW2 was limited by Treaty to a land army of around 35.000 men.
Admittedly, conscription lead to an army reserve of trained soldiers far in excess of that number, which could have been mobilised and used in the event of war (with Russia).
In the light of this, and given that Finland had/has an extremely long border with the USSR/Russia – probably not all that different from the length of the present Ukraine-Russia border – it would seem that 600.000 land troops is not small for a country which will be officially neutral and not in NATO.
LCdS
Ukraine reeks of entitlement, war has given the elite there unlimited world and EU attention, untold riches, and a sense they are big time players on the world stage – a status they never had. Look at Ukraine’s historic GDP; it’s as high now in wartime; with millions having fled abroad; uncertain power supply and no productive economy, and a third of their territory occupied, at war, than in relative peace time
https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/ukr/ukraine/gdp-gross-domestic-product
The total they’ve received since 2022 (>360bn) dwarfs their entire GDP in peacetime!
It’d be perfectly understandable therefore, if those around Zelenskyy, some of whom are allegedly embezzling hundreds of millions through various accounting tricks and schemes, and then fleeing to Israel, freshly minted with their ill-gotten gains, never wanted this war to end. Isn’t it bizarre how no one in the West talks of dual national Mindich and co, being forced to return? Is Israel beyond the laws of this world , like a separate dimension? Zelenskyy, who is Jewish himself, supported Israel’s assault on Gaza too, so any sympathy I had for him personally vanished right there.
The plan does not envisage a neutral Ukraine. See reference to European fighter jets.
@ Brian Red
As per the plan, the European fighter jets would be in Poland, which is not really objectionable since Poland is a NATO member. Moreover, the fighter jets would very probably be Polish air force jets, they have just ordered a whole load of them/
@ Goose
I think I have already said that you are one of the commenters here who has a high respect reading from me.
However, my advice would be to keep to the subject, so to speak, also when commenting on someone else’s comment. Your point about Ukraine’s entitlement is 100% accurate, but I see little point in then going on to mention Israel’s entitlement (it is, of course – not disputing the fact!) and then going further with a rant on that latter point. Again, you are right about Israel, but the two subjects – Israel and Ukraine – are very different issues and stressing certain similarities doesn’t really advance the argument very much.
Just my opinion. Stay focussed – like the Ukrainians and their cheerleaders (and the Israelis ad theirs)
The reaction of Ukrainian soldiers to Trump’s “peace plan” should be of interest.
If the Americans won’t help Ukraine enough, I’m sure that help from the Germans will be very welcome on the front line of this war of democracy against dictatorship.
Слава Україні!
Ah, the bravery of being out of range. Go to the trenches and die, sucker.
Another great “friend” of Ukraine and Ukrainians.
And what’s your contribution to this – fantasy – ” war of democracy ( hahahaha ) against dictatorship “, sitting in the comfort & safety of your armchair pontificating on what OTHER PEOPLE should sacrifice so that casual spectators like you can imagine they’re on the ” side of the angels “? Would that be the same ” angels ” that have been known to burn people alive as part of protracted attrition against those they deem insufficiently Ukrainian, ie the Russian-speaking/Culturally-aligned areas of that country?
The same ” angels ” infamous for making Ukraine the most corrupt country in Europe and far up the global corruption league: and even now when – actually just a fraction of, the plunder of monies sent by the * West * is being exposed- all the culprits known to be ” close confederates ” of Wee Winsome Winston ( does he practise that expression of the heroic martyr for ” his ” country in front of a mirror before every public ” performance “? ) Zelenskyyyyyyyyy – there are still stupid/delusional people baying for more blood.
The crux of the matter is, all of the main players in this disaster, ie the Zelensky Criminal Gang, the fckn gibbering monkeys of the E.U and the bumbling, stumbling soon-to-be crumbling Starmer * Labour * Gov and let’s not forget the entity that is most responsible for initiating this human carnage – the mentally/morally ill Neocon Yank Bankster Crew – * need * this conflict to continue as long as possible, because as soon as it ends, and that will be soon, all of them will be absolutely f****d; at least they should be. The latter will no doubt survive, and with it’s protean capacity to turn every disaster to it’s profit-generating advantage, re-market itself as the Hero of the Reconstruction – PT2
These monstrous people don’t give a s**t how many more humans are destroyed, along with the terrible toll on manmade & natural landscapes; all they care about is staying in power, mouthing hollow platitudes about ” democracy ” and – my favourite – the ” Rule of Law ” – CHRIST ALMIGHTY!! how can anyone with a functioning intelligence and ethical sense take that soundbite seriously after Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, GAZA, not to mention previous US incursions in Korea, Vietnam, Panama etc, and currently, murdering Venezuelan fishermen ( in Yankspeak, ” Narco-terrorists, FFS! ). Unless these Chihuahuas of War, eg Von der Leyen, Merz, Rutte, Macron, Starmer, Kallas et al are removed from their positions ASAP, Europe is finished, over, done. Sure, the landmass named Europe will still be there ( well, if the lunatics succeed in their demented aim of provoking Russia to the limit, and over it, that landmass will not be recognisable ) but Europe as a cohesive, functioning political whole will be fragmented beyond repair; at least for decades, until such times as men & women of much higher ethical and pragmatic standards gain control. Not much sign of that occurring anytime soon
The Proxy War is over – ” NATO ” lost. All people with the same mind(less)set as you are doing is prolonging the agony and very temporarily delaying the inevitable
Robert Hughes
November 23, 2025 at 08:10
“Brevity is the soul of wit.”
The last time German soldiers entered the Ukraine weapons in hand, the survivors finally staggered back bloody, burned, and crushed. It’s a great shame that memories are so short, even for facts that should never be forgotten.
And the ridiculous canard that Russia is a “dictatorship” should be challenged whenever it is asserted. Democracy in Russia works very much as in the West. Except that in Western nations there is usually no acceptable, competent or honest candidate, so that unacceptable, incompetent and dishonest politicians are elected – with predictable consequences.
Russian citizens usually have a variety of candidates, and since Mr Putin appeared on the scene he has always been the people’s choice. Partly because of his obvious competence and honesty, but I think mainly because of the amazing results he has delivered. Russian people are far, far better off and far more secure than in 2000 – and that improvement in living conditions has continued even since 2022, as none other than Niall Ferguson emphasised recently: https://x.com/ThinkCoalition/status/1991834546929905956
Tom Welsh
November 23, 2025 at 09:52
When the Wehrmacht entered Soviet occupied Ukraine in 1941 it was as part of a murderous enterprise – the occupation of the country and the enslavement of its people.
If the Bundeswehr are invited to participate in European military assistance to Ukraine, the murderous enterprise will be Putin’s war of choice against Ukraine.
Where would you place “democratic” Russia in the hierarchy of democracy, including the DPRK and the PRC?
“Where would you place “democratic” Russia in the hierarchy of democracy, including the DPRK and the PRC?”
A lot higher than the UK, which has two heads of state, one hereditary and the other elected by 0.04% of the population and who can be replaced by someone else at any time without another popular vote.
“Where would you place “democratic” Russia in the hierarchy of democracy, including the DPRK and the PRC?”
Near the top. Regular, orderly, well-administered elections carried out in full adherence to law. I don’t think the DPRK makes any claim to be a democracy, but if it does it is of a very different kind from Western “representative democracy” – which is not democracy at all.
Democracy consists of giving power to the people. “Representative democracy” starts from the belief that the people cannot be entrusted with power, so they are restricted to choosing, every few years, which dictators are to rule them arbitrarily. How many British citizens want Net Zero? How many wanted lockdown? How many want war with Russia? How many want to send lots of their taxes to Ukraine? Come to that, how many wanted to be ruled by Sir Keir Starmer?
The last time the Germans entered Ukraine they had a formidable, well trained, motivated and well armed force. And they were beaten. The NATO forces today have more in common with the keystone cops, Russia will obviously treat any threats seriously but the reality is NATO, particularly without the USA, is just going to embarrass itself and hasten its demise.
Stevie Boy
November 23, 2025 at 11:09
If Germany “enters” Ukraine it will be at the invitation of the democratically elected Government of Ukraine.
To help defend against the unprovoked aggression by Putin’s Russia.
Rather different from the genocidal assault by the Nazi Wehrmacht in 1941.
And indeed rather different from the unprovoked aggression by Putin’s Russia.
“The last time the Germans entered Ukraine they had a formidable, well trained, motivated and well armed force”.
And the advantage of complete surprise.
” the ridiculous canard that Russia is a “dictatorship” should be challenged whenever it is asserted. ”
You disagree with Jeremy Corbyn’s opinion that Putin has stolen elections?
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/russia-ukraine-war-jeremy-corbyn-right-putin-oligarchs
” Democracy in Russia works very much as in the West. ”
‘Not at all then’ according to the tankies…
And why won’t we agree with Fiona Hill (she’s British originally, isn’t she?) who said that Putin is not a dictator? Of course he’s more authoritarian than, say, POTUS, but he still depends on public opinion. And, BTW, Putin acts within the Constitution of 1993, created by Boris Yeltsin. This Constitution made Russian president almost a Tsar. But it was OK when this Tsar-president was “Dear friend Boris” because Russia was weak. Once Russia got a strong Tsar-president, Putin, all of a sudden it became a “dictatorship” though almost mothing had changed.
What you guys in the West do not understand (or pretend not to understand) is that Putin is popular to the large extent because Russians do not see any good alternatives to what he’s doing. Russians do not want “back to the USSR” but they also do not want liberal democracy as they had in the 90’s. So there is only one way, to take the better of the two worlds and go ahead.
“”You disagree with Jeremy Corbyn’s opinion that Putin has stolen elections?”
Why not, he’s just a politician for whom there is no doctrine of infallibility. There is not a single person alive in the world today of whom it can be said that they are right about everything, all the time and yet somehow people expect politicians to be of this mythical race.
The arguments for Putin being a dictator usually run like this: a very high proportion of the Russian electorate vote for him in the presidential elections. No politician is that popular in the West, therefore the vote must be rigged, which makes Putin a dictator who steals elections. That is about as puerile an argument as that of football fans who claim that their tem couldn’t possibly have lost the match, it must have been bias by the referee. At no time is the actual quality of the people involved taken into account.
“I’m sure that help from the Germans will be very welcome on the front line of this war of democracy against dictatorship.”
I really don’t think that Germany would be so stupid as to be at war with Russia again, but you never can tell. I take it you are a German citizen and that your volunteering papers are already with the Bundeswehr in case it does happen.
It is Ukrainian soldiers themselves who do not want Zelensky to give in.
As to ‘armchair’ contributions (this is written seated on an armless piece of furniture btw) it is good that citizens of demcracies speak up for Democratic Ukraine against the dictatorship of ex-KGB Putin. I hope that more do so, that Ukrainians who read this will know that they’re not forgotten. People who would call Russia a democracy should talk to Alexei Navalny’s widow and supporters.
Germany is a democracy now, and they are to be commended for supporting Ukraine, and it may serve as atonement for the invasion of the USSR under the Nazis. Even that liberated Ukraine from Stalin for a while, and enabld Christian missionaries like servant of God Walter Ciszek enter, so some good came of it.
Decades ago I met a Russian teacher whom I asked why he left the USSR.
‘I didn’t like it, so I left.’
‘But they don’t let anyone leave.’
‘Ah, but when I left, they were not there!’
It’s an ill wind, etc.
Слава Україні!
Have you personally heard these ” …Ukrainian soldiers …..who do not want Zelensky to give in.” say this 1st hand, ie in your presence? Of course you haven’t, this just something you read/heard somewhere in the 100% partisan/propagandising MSM.
What about the reports of the 1000s of U soldiers who have either surrendered ( who can blame them? ) or went AWOL + the 1000s who are in hiding or have managed to slip out of the country? No, I, similarly, don’t know or have direct knowledge of such men, but I trust the extremely well informed sources of this information.
If * you * were ( dumb enough ) to believe some of these repellent Pro-Proxy War MSM sources, Ukraine is doing swimmingly in this conflict and is still on course to achieve a heroic victory over the barbarous forces of Mordor-On-The-Moskva. Reality denial of most demented kind.
I’m sure you mean and think well, MJ, but, really, it’s time to put down the Boys Own adventure comics version and face the facts that this entire * West * instigated, funded & fuelled Proxy War has been an act of catastrophic hubris on the part of the latter and the only humane, compassionate recourse now is to end it ASAP that even more lives are not needlessly, pointlessly squandered
Robert Hughes
November 23, 2025 at 13:31
“this entire * West * instigated, funded & fuelled Proxy War” was started by and is being prosecuted by the Putin regime.
(Of course the Government of Ukraine is equally culpable for having the temerity to defend its territory and its people. The bastards.)
It is the BBC that is a reliable source of information, according to the late Mikhail Gorbachev. That is because it operates in a free and democratic society. Russia is a dictatorship, therefore Russian news is unreliable. This reminds me of a story of the Soviet Union, that of diplomat to Yemen Vladimir Sakharov. HIs grandmother would habitually exclaim on reading Pravda “Everything the Soviet press prints is ****. Tonight we will get the truth from the BBC.” (John Barron, KGB, page 50)
Regarding the real problem of human casualties in war, here is a BBC report of how robots are now used to deliver equipment to the Ukrainian front line. Their help is certainly appreciated.
Слава Україні!
“It is the BBC that is a reliable source of information, ”
Is this the same BBC that is being sued by Trump for cutting a lot of words out of one of his speech, thereby completely changing the meaning?
“This reminds me of a story of the Soviet Union,..”
You do realise that Russia is not the Soviet Union any more?
“It is Ukrainian soldiers themselves who do not want Zelensky to give in.”
Quite possibly, but how many of them and would they all be in the Azov Battallion and the like?
“Germany is a democracy now, and they are to be commended for supporting Ukraine,”
Who are “they” in that statement, the German government or the German people? (Hint, the two are not the same.) You are forgetting, perhaps, that Germany was a democracy when Hitler came to power.
The beat of war drums are sounding very loud in Venezuela, an armada of war ships is threatening the Maduro government, accusing them of being the leaders of a notorious narco terrorist cartel, of course this does not exist, it is a lame excuse similar to Iraq WMD. As long as a certain number of Fox viewers believe that, all is well. The US neocons will insist it has nothing to do with Venezuela having the largest known oil reserves in the world. The rest of the world are beginning to see the US as a world-spanning Mafia this is quite true, I am reminded of the shopkeeper who when visited by two huge goons in trench coats asking for their protection money, who do I need protection from inquired the shopkeeper? Us, came the reply. Tariffs and sanctions are the United States equivalent of a global shakedown racket, Trump the boss, Don or Godfather typically receives a cut from every family member. The chairman Mao adage is true, “Power grows out the barrel of a gun” now Trump is leveraging his military power to regime change Venezuela. This is Trumps art of the deal, threaten the terrors of the earth to your opponent, then when your opponent is intimidated, Trumps MO thinks a good deal for the US is inevitable.
Russia (Ukraine) and China (stopping rare earths) should disabuse Trump (TACO) of this notion. Will it though?
https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/trump-begins-new-phase-of-venezuela
On the subject of arms sales, today’s Guardian online reports that Trump confirmed that the specifications of sold to Saudi Arabia would be the same as Israel’s. This would dump the principle that Israel always gets to buy the best military hardware, giving it a “qualitative edge”. Trump said, “As far as I’m concerned, I think they are both at a level where they should get top of the line.”
In addition Trump’s administration has announced it would lift the ban on selling advanced AI chips to Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates (UAE), boosting Riyadh’s ambitions of becoming a global tech hub.
A threat to Israeli supremacy in the region, then, i.e. something positive to report! I wonder how the Zionist lobby will deal with it. Perhaps undermine Trump, which would be good for democracy in the USA, at least.
It’s an ill wind, etc.
United States-Israel Strategic Partnership Act (P.L. 113-296)
The U.S. law that mandates Israel maintain a qualitative military edge is encapsulated in the United States-Israel Strategic Partnership Act (P.L. 113-296), enacted in December 2014. This legislation requires the president to conduct frequent assessments of Israel’s QME and to engage in executive-legislative consultations regarding potential arms sales to other Middle Eastern countries. It also mandates that any proposed U.S. arms sale to any country in the Middle East other than Israel must include a notification to Congress with a determination that the sale or export would not adversely affect Israel’s QME.
In my opinion these sales to Saudi Arabia (Trump calls them cash cows) are meant to enrich the US MIT and intimidate Iran, the Iranians are not intimidated by the F35 (a so called jack of all trades, but master of none) the Iranians have underground cities churning out unstoppable hypersonic missiles at a fraction of the cost of one F35. These missile deployments are all over the vast Iranian deserts and along the Strait of Hormuz. Saudi Arabia know, just as Israel does, that an attack on Iran means death to themselves. As I said in my comment above, in the absence of International Law and its replacement with the new US led ‘Rules based order’ power does grow out the barrel of a gun.
“top of the line”, the F35 ! Trump is a right comedian. However, it’s good that all headchoppers get the same crap.
The Israelis have modified the F35 with their own electronics to build what is recognised as distinct version, F35I. Whether they’ll be prepared to share this technology with the Saudis is an interesting point.
Strange that Israel has been able to operate this crock over mighty Iran with impunity.
“Whether they’ll be prepared to share this technology with the Saudis is an interesting point”. Why share with a US vassal when you can share with a US enemy.
“Israel has sold at least dollars 2bn ( pounds 1.3bn) to dollars 3bn of hi-tech military equipment to China, seriously undermining US efforts to limit the sale of advanced weapons to the Chinese”.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/israel-accused-of-selling-us-secrets-to-china-1510406.html
Harry, you are profoundly wrong in calling China “a US enemy”. Both the actions and the words of the Chinese government make it perfectly plain that China prefers peaceful cooperation and trade with everyone. That’s because such cooperation is the proven path to prosperity and growth.
It is those who call for continual war and the violent overthrow of governments who must explain their position. The US government is chronically vexed with China because it has consistently outperformed the USA (and all Western nations) in economic growth, prosperity, and the reduction of poverty. Washington’s normal reaction to any such nation has been to sanction, blockade, or bomb it into submission or miserable poverty – or, if the opportunity arose, to orchestrate a coup and put in an obedient puppet government. It has done those things to scores of countries: notably Cuba, Chile, Argentina, Indonesia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria.
Unfortunately for the Americans and their accomplices, China is now too strong to be overcome by military, economic, or financial means. That leaves the Americans foaming with rage but impotent. The most they can do is to claim that every Chinese success results from “stealing Western technology”, even when it is something that the West has never been able to do.
“The US government is chronically vexed with China because it has consistently outperformed the USA (and all Western nations) in economic growth, prosperity,”
Replace “The USA”, by “Britain” and “China” by “Germany” and you have one of the causes of WWI.
Very reasonable, Bayard. There must be SOME explanation other than the chronic incompetence and arrogance of Sir Edward Grey and the unreasoning malice of the French towards the Germans who had smashed them so easily in 1970 after France declared war on Prussia.
You are correct Tom, I should have said the US want to ‘contain’ China as a competitor or used “enemy” in inverted comas?? But it must be acknowledged that many politicians in the US do regard them as an enemy.
Harry, belatedly I would like to draw your attention to Brian Berletic’s talk about Washington’s decades-old plan to strangle China economically.
https://journal-neo.su/2025/11/10/us-plans-for-china-blockade-continue-taking-shape/
https://youtu.be/Xqi_cPYiT9c
Well worth your time, if you haven’t already heard it.
I suppose as night follows day we should’ve realised that Trump would change his mind.
https://news.sky.com/story/sir-keir-starmer-reveals-ukraine-peace-plan-concern-as-donald-trump-boycotts-g20-summit-13473884
It seems to depend on who was the last person he spoke to.
Trump’s infuriatingly inconsistent, yep.
The core problem though, is that Europe aren’t proposing any peace solutions of their own. Kallas and von der Leyen’s belief Ukraine shouldn’t have to compromise one inch, flies in the face of reality. All we get from EU officials, are more bellicosity and threats, because the EU and Macron, Starmer; Merz, Stubb and co have talked themselves into v.extreme positions due to their desire to punish Russia. Positions that have no chance of being acceptable to Moscow. I’m sure if Trump, Zelensky and Putin could have a weekend of peace talks, they could probably hammer something out. But it’s the meddling EU and these European leaders who’d pick apart the resulting agreement. The EU and Starmer , Macron are like Zelensky’s parents or guardian, wanting in on everything, holding Zelrensky’s hand, going to see the headmaster(Trump) when he’s in trouble.
Subject to the further fleshing out of various aspects, it seems as if the Trump plan is about as good as it gets for Ukraine and Russia.
The only alternative put forward by the West Europe side – let the war continue until Russia caves in – is simply not going to happen because Russia is winning. Nothing short of direct and full scale European intervention is going to change that and given the state and potential of the European militaries, even such intervention might well not change the outcome.
But one should not worry – despite all the shouting, no European country is going to put boots on the ground or fighters in the Ukrainian sky. It is all big talk and bluff.
Preparations are certainly under way to exit more or less graciously from this imbroglio and to focus on something easier.
Goose
November 23, 2025 at 14:58
“I’m sure if Trump, Zelensky and Putin could have a weekend of peace talks, they could probably hammer something out. ”
Trump and Putin certainly could. This “peace plan” is after all a Russian wishlist.
The only way that Putin can impose this “peace plan” on Ukraine is by winning the war. Something he hasn’t managed in over 3 years.
A question; why do you think Trump is so anxious to end the war on Putin’s terms?
JK redux
I think you’re letting your antipathy for Russia cloud your judgement.
The belief that : i. Putin made Brexit happen – this despite the fact being anti-EU was a Tory obsession, with its origins in the early 1990’s and the way the Maastricht Treaty was rammed through, in the face of opposition from people, the then PM, John Major, called ‘Bastards’. Cameron’s 50%+1 vote referendum had nothing to do with it as well, I suppose? ii. That Putin installed Trump, twice, – despite F-all evidence. Both are commonly held views, even among those intelligent to know better.
The liberal elite hate being unpopular, they can’t attack their own populations for disliking them, so they project some grand, covert, mind-altering propaganda /manipulation programme onto Russia, affecting millions in the West. All because such idiocy it’s easier than coping with the horrible truth : their policies are just unpopular.
Goose
November 23, 2025 at 16:20
I’m antipathetic to the Russian regime and to Russian political culture.
Certainly not to Russia. That would be foolish.
Your comments about Brexit went over my head as I’m not English.
There is some evidence of Russian interference in US elections, I’m not sure to what effect.
The cui bono argument supports the idea that it is in Putin’s interests to have a physically failing old man in declining cognitive health as POTUS.
Flattery alone may be enough to explain Trump’s deference to Putin. Insecure narcissists will kick down and kiss up.
But it is very plausible that Putin has compromat on Trump. It would explain the body language when the two men emerge from one of their 1-1 meetings.
Did you notice US negotiator Witkoff using a right hand on heart greeting when meeting Putin recently? And the same earlier in the year.
Witkoff uses a Russian Government interpreter at meetings, not a US State Department one.
All suggesting that the US Administration is to some extent captured by Putin and his gang.
” A question; why do you think Trump is so anxious to end the war on Putin’s terms? ”
Especially as, so we’re told, the US started it as a proxy war against Russia and that the MIC, in which Trump no doubt has a financial interest, is making billions on the back of it.
This wasn’t Trump but the Deep State. So there is no contradiction.
JKredux
why do you think Trump is so anxious to end the war on Putin’s terms?
I don’t think everything in the plan is to Russia’s liking.
As to why he wants it over? Trump and his MAGA supporters see it very much as Biden’s war. Trump is actually being consistent to his campaign message in saying he wants it over ASAP. The only way of achieving that is by recognising more of the stronger country’s demands. It’s unpalatable, but not the worst deal ever imposed on a country. Look at the terms the U.S. and UK imposed on Iraq – and what did the ruling Shiite’s there – people who also suffered under Saddam’s rule – do to deserve such onerous terms? Do you hear the EU, Macron, Merz; Starmer and Stubb complaining about the lack of a ‘just’ settlement there?
Goose
November 23, 2025 at 16:44
Which of the the terms of the plan displease Putin?
You can’t explain why Trump is so anxious to oblige him.
I’d say Trump wants it over because America’s proxy is losing and neither the US or the Europeans are going to contribute the cannon fodder that might just possibly turn it round. The USA has a record of stirring up wars that they thought they’d win easily, then cutting and running when they found they couldn’t. This one does differ in two ways. 1 – it’s a conventional war against a conventional enemy in conventional terrain. They can’t console themselves that it doesn’t really count because it was against irregular forces and/or in a jungle or desert. 2 – it’s white Europeans that they’re leaving in the lurch this time. We thought it only happened to Asians or Muslims but we were wrong. But neither of these are major differences from, say, Vietnam or Afghanistan.
JK
That must be the “n” th time you have told people you are not English.
As you appear willing to forego privacy, would you mind telling us which country is lucky enough to claim you as its own?
Are you asking the devil to spell Beelzebub, Luis Cunha da Silva? 🙃
I am almost certain he is a man from the North, Finland is my first guess. It’s in their blood to hate Russia because of some shared history. Of course I might be wrong.
“A question; why do you think Trump is so anxious to end the war on Putin’s terms?”
A question, why do you think these are Putin’s terms, because they are not the terms you would like to see proposed? If you want to be taken seriously here, you really do have to admit to the concept of neutrality, that not everything that isn’t the hardest of hard lines anti is automatically pro.
The fact is, IMO, that Zelensky cannot agree any peace proposal, even if he wanted to. This is because of the Nazi thugs within his government/military who would see peace as a capitulation and therefore arrange the demise of Zelensky.
And, that’s not mentioning the exposure of the corruption that peace would bring, the election that would finish off the government and the fact that Russia will not accept anything signed by Zelensky because of his illegal status.
There won’t be any movement towards peace while Zelensky is in place.
What ‘Nazi thugs’ would they be? Do you have any names?
Zelensky’s status is not illegal despite what the propagandists tell you.
Russian joke of the day: the attempt to build a Nazi regime in Ukraine failed because the Jews stole all the money.
Usual obtuse nonsense. Boris Johnson said in an interview earlier this year that the Azov lot threatened Zekensky not to make peace. You can hear him saying it on this weekend’s Grayzone Live.
Btw, your claim that you want all bribed politicians to be jailed didn’t exactly stand up to basic scrutiny, did it? Why say it when you knew who you would obviously be asked about??
zoot
November 23, 2025 at 17:47
Relying on publicly acknowledged serial liar Boris Johnson for testimony about Ukraine is brave.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-62068421
“Mr Johnson made Mr Lebedev’s son Evgeny a member of the House of Lords.”
It’s hardly a revelation of Boris Johnson’s who’s really calling the shots in Kiev. The point is it’s now being openly admitted even by people like him, a NATO proxy warrior and propagandist of the first order.
“Zelensky’s status is not illegal despite what the propagandists tell you.”
Ah, yes, another totally unsupported assertion we are supposed to take on the strength of your word alone. Unless you can provide evidence to the contrary, it appears that, at the expiry of the president of Ukraine’s term, his powers pass to the Ukranian parliament if there is not a successor elected.
Elections postponed as a consequence of martial law resulting from the illegal invasion
https://www.yahoo.com/news/confused-zelensky-legitimacy-know-173654076.html
https://www.zois-berlin.de/en/publications/zois-spotlight/ukraine-zelenskyis-legitimacy-undisputed
Claims to the contrary originate with Russian propagandists for obvious reasons and lack legitimacy. It’s not uncommon for nations at war to postpone elections, the UK did so for eight years as a result of WW1 and ten because of WW2. Were Asquith, Lloyd-George and Churchill ‘illegal’ then?
2 Pears Morgaine:
Unlike you, Russian propagandists actually read the Constitution of Ukraine. True, the “Elections [were] postponed as a consequence of martial law”, as you claimed. However, this was Zelensky’s law and the Constitution says nothing about that. Thus, in effect, it was Zelensky himself who postponed the elections and extended his presidency indefinetely.
Article 83 says that Rada automatically extends its authority in the case of martial law; however, there is no article that extends presidential authority in the same way. Moreover, Article 85(7) says that this is Rada’s authority to designate “elections of the President of Ukraine within the terms envisaged by this Constitution”, not the president’s.
“Were Asquith, Lloyd-George and Churchill ‘illegal’ then?”
No, because, unlike Ukraine, Britain doesn’t have a constitution. Two pieces of quite obvious Western propaganda doesn’t exactly amount to proof. How impressed would you be if I bolstered my arguments with excerpts from Pravda?
He’s probably finished anyway tbh, because of the huge corruption scandal western powers and their intel services, along with the EU, are desperately suppressing – trying to keep it out of the news, ably assisted by the likes of the, in their words, ‘independent,’ ‘impartial’ BBC et al.
Andriy Yermak is at he center of the energy corruption scandal and he has faced calls to quit from members of Zelenskyy’s own party! Yermak can’t go without him risking bringing Zelensky down; because Andriy Yermak happens to be a Ukrainian film producer, lawyer but more importantly, the Head of the Office of the President of Ukraine. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy appointed him on 11 February 2020 and he’s classed as Zelensky’s closest ally.
Interestingly it’s been common knowledge that Ukraine is one of the most corrupt countries on the planet, against tough competition, since the 2014 coup. The reason that it is now in the public domain, ie. MSM, is because Trump has lifted the lid as part of his plan to remove zelensky.
The question is who will face the chop first: zelensky or Starmer ?
“Interestingly it’s been common knowledge that Ukraine is one of the most corrupt countries on the planet, against tough competition, since the 2014 coup. ”
The official narrative is that it has got less corrupt since the 2014 coup, so God knows what it was like then.
The ship story is a nothingburger, nobody will give a damn about it in a week’s time. It was only there to cover the release of awful economy data.
True. With the UK budget coming up it’s necessary to fabricate the environment for all the crap heading our way. Expect more chaff over the next few days.
Even sooner:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c997vm74ydvo
Following adversaries’ vessels and aircraft (“interception”) is absolutely routine, it happens literally every day and is a nothingburger for the military. The question is why drumming it up now.
It may also be linked to the ongoing talks in Geneva.
To be clear, nobody who’s studied Russian history will consider Russia a friendly, benign country. Throughout history, it conquered and subjugated all the nations around, stopping only if repelled by force. There are no “good empires” out there, as e.g. eastern Europe has experienced. With this in mind, I’m perhaps not so negative about this BBC bs.
“To be clear, nobody who’s studied Russian history will consider Russia a friendly, benign country. Throughout history, it conquered and subjugated all the nations around, stopping only if repelled by force. ”
To be clear, nobody who’s studied British history will consider Britain a friendly, benign country, either. Throughout history, it conquered and subjugated nations all around the globe, stopping only if repelled by force. https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/1200×630/5294364.jpg
This is the nation that brings you the BBC.
Another Russia Britain sea story:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/royal-navy-russian-warship-b2870831.html
See the word “intercepts” in the headline. This should not be read with law uppermost in mind, but with the recognition that the most important words in a newspaper article are almost always in the headline. This kind of propaganda, like most propaganda, is not an appeal to the intellect, to convince readers’ logical brains that such-and-such an event happened, with causes X and consequences Y. It is an appeal to emotion.
Also be aware that when Donald Trump has a bigtime freakout, it’s likely to be related to the sea.
Breaking news:
It looks like hell has actually frozen over, and Europe has finally agreed to make progress towards peace:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/11/23/ukraine-russia-war-latest-news-power-plant-moscow-geneva/
It’s very comprehensive too, Ukraine gets Nato Article 5 equivalence, albeit with no Nato forces stationed in the country. Russia should accept these proposals imho.
As for Russophobes’ Kallas and von der Leyen, they must be laying down somewhere, sedated, in a darkened room.
Goose
November 23, 2025 at 18:45
Goose, I’ll be surprised if Russia agrees to those terms.
But it depends whether Putin is desperate for a (temporary) cessation of hostilities so that he can claim victory at home while preparing for another day…
JKredux
But would you agree, the differences between the plans now looks bridgeable, if cool heads on both sides prevail? That is to say, it’s the first time since Feb 2022, peace has seemed within haggle distance. Optimism has been in short supply.
Yes, potentially.
But the devil is in the details and as you know, I do not trust Putin’s bona fides.
“I do not trust Putin’s bona fides”
Whose do you trust, then?
“I do not trust Putin’s bona fides”.
That’s funny – I do not trust the bona fides of the West in general, and specifically the governments of the USA, the UK, France, and Germany. Nor NATO nor the EU.
Ukraine of course is in a class by itself, now openly acknowledged even by its friends in the West as the world’s most corrupt nation. (Although that’s unfair to others, such as the Western nations listed above, which are very probably even more corrupt but where no one is allowed to mention it. Or where corruption has even been legalised and institutionalised).
The Russian government, and Mr Putin personally, have been lied to and deceived scores of times by the West. So much so that Mr Putin himself has finally been forced to acknowledge the fact in his public statements.
When have Mr Putin or the Russian government ever lied to or deceived the West? Specifics, please.
“Russia Will Not Make the Same Mistake It Did With Minsk II”
Larry C Johnson
https://larrycjohnson.substack.com/p/russia-will-not-make-the-same-mistake
I think you are being optimistic Goose,the US proposals have been rejected by Ukraine, there is no likelihood that the EU proposals are any better, for instance Ukraine will not accept the loss of sovereignty required in Russia taking over the four Oblasts plus Crimea. Many other provisions seem intractable. The not one inch of territory ceded to Russia being the main one.
https://strategic-culture.su/news/2025/11/22/the-28-point-theater-of-the-absurd/
HL
Russia doesn’t need Ukraine to formally acknowledge the ceded territory as Russian, because even in these European agreed proposals, Ukraine’s hands are tied on using force to regain said territory. So de facto, in time, it becomes Russian. With money from sanctions relief, to invest, and changing demographics as Russians move there, attempting to regain it wouldn’t make sense, even for hardline Ukrainian ultranationalists. Can you imagine how Russia will fortify that territory, it’ll be a ‘steel porcupine’ on their side of any DMZ too.
Yes, Russia won’t accept the terms, but they don’t have to do or say anything because the Ukrainian clowns will never accept any terms that are grounded in reality. Russia is not going to interrupt their enemies while they are busy shooting themselves in the foot.
“Goose, I’ll be surprised if Russia agrees to those terms”.
Actually, I’m pretty sure that those terms would never have been proposed had there been the slightest chance of Russia accepting them. The proposers have powerful vested interests in the fighting continuing as long as possible, while causing as many deaths and injuries and as much material damage as possible. They know as well as anyone that the Ukraine is basically part of Russia, so every person killed and every building demolished on either side is essentially harm to Russia.
Mr Trump in particular has already established a clear-cut pattern of behaviour: he makes an offer, then if the Russians show any sign of accepting it, he withdraws it rapidly. His thinking is, “If you are prepared to put up with this, it’s obviously not causing you enough pain”.
And if the “antagonist”/”adversary”/”opponent”/”enemy” agrees to negotiate, there goes the excuse for bombing them. That’s no fun. That’s why, for example, Washington refuses to talk to Mr Maduro’s government. They want to bomb Venezuela, but only when they can pretend it’s the Venezuelans’ fault.
Did Finland and Austria, the beneficiaries of neutrality for around 7 decades, get “NATO equivalence” – whatever that may mean?
It is clear that Putin is far from desperate to agree to a “temporary cessation” with the risk of this resulting in another Minsk 2 collective west betrayal. He is clear as signalled in various recent statements by Lavrov that only a solution based on “root causes” will be acceptable. The 28 point plan gets closer to that than anything before. He has further made it clear that if collective west heads cannot be knocked together to secure a permanent agreement he will find a military solution with all that entails for Ukraine.
There are certainly people in Russia who want Putin to take a much harder line approach. Take this comment from “a pensioner” in today’s VZGLYAD https://vz.ru/world/2025/5/22/1333802.html# in response to statements by General Kellogg.
“It doesn’t matter what Kellogg is telling us. Read these 28 points, and you’ll realize that if Russia signs this, it will be signing an act of surrender while it is advancing and defeating its enemy! There’s nothing to discuss. It should be rejected outright, not taken as a basis! There are no Russian interests in these 28 points! Not only that, they are proposing we violate our own Constitution and give up part of our territories, such as Kherson and Zaporizhzhia, and return the territories of Kharkiv, Sumy, and Dnipropetrovsk that we control to the Ukrainian Nazis! Additionally, the part of Donetsk Oblast currently controlled by the Ukrainian Nazis will be considered a neutral demilitarized buffer zone that is internationally recognized as Russian territory, but Russian forces will not enter this demilitarized zone. I recommend that everyone read these 28 points to understand that this is not just a scam, but a forced surrender!”
Make of it what you will as a random comment on Russian media but unless serious negotiations result it could be that the war drums will be beating much louder and faster in a very short time.
The war drums have never stopped, in Ukraine or Gaza, while the suits talk, the killing continues, and that is just fine for the western powers. It would be different if it was their sons and daughters.
Stevie Boy
November 23, 2025 at 21:34
Does it ever occur to you how Russian parents feel about their sons being sent to die?
And for what?
“Does it ever occur to you how Russian parents feel about their sons being sent to die?”
They are probably not happy, but they have the consolation that their sons went as volunteers and knew what they were letting themselves in for, unlike the wretched press-ganged Ukranians.
Crispa
November 23, 2025 at 21:20
Quickly, quickly..
Let’s surrender to Putin before he gets really cross.
He might use the special military Unobtanium against the Zapad.
We’re doomed I tell you. Doomed.
FFS. Tankie Central….
Nothing tankie about it, just pointing out the reality, which unfortunately our politicians and their spokespeople have little of, lost in vacuous rhetoric most of the time.
What is a Tankie?
It’s anybody who questions the “fight-til-the-last-Ukrainian” fanaticism of Avoz and the 101st Chairborne Division, thousands of miles away from the front. Even the likes of Boris Johnson and Zelensky himself are liable to be labelled such if they mention especially taboo truths or (even worse) threaten to end the slaughter.
It’s ironic as it’s a derogatory term for (mostly unquestioning) supporters of the Soviet Union. Some people seem to have missed the last 35 years of history and are unaware that the current Russian government is closer in beliefs and temperament to Trump than to Lenin. But smarter than Trump, for what that’s worth.
“Some people seem to have missed the last 35 years of history”
It’s worse than that, some people appear to have fallen asleep on VE day and only just woken up.
John cleary
November 24, 2025 at 09:09
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie
Thank you.
Someone who’s addicted to the World of Tanks 🙂
Crispa
Kellogg is a McCain-esque Cold War relic. He’s quitting shortly precisely because he wanted a harder line taken, and hates the idea of any concessions for Russia to end this. He’s gone native while in Europe – the world hotbed of Russophobic paranoia.
I don’t think Rubio is really all that on board and loyal to Trump over this either: he’s ‘on message’ in public, but likely saying something else privately to Euro leaders. Rubio is very ambitious though, he’d love nothing more than Trump’s endorsement for a presidential tilt, if(big if) JD Vance isn’t in the running for some reason. Remember this is Trump’s last term in office. Of course Rubio will never really win over MAGA voters, even with Trump’s endorsement, because of his reputation as a neocon, but the man can dream, can’t he?
https://open.substack.com/pub/snyder/p/russian-unreality-and-american-weakness?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
An excellent analysis by Timothy Snyder of the ridiculous “peace plan” circulated by Russia via the US.
He goes through the document point by point, noting inter alia that the phrasing and construction is characteristically Russian in many places.
Well worth reading and provides a measured alternative to the exuberant welcome for the “peace plan” from many here.
“He goes through the document point by point, noting inter alia that the phrasing and construction is characteristically Russian in many places.”
Thank you for that treatise on why the plan to nail jelly to the ceiling is no good. Knocking holes in things is easy. Coming up with a better alternative is the difficult part, which, of course, Snyder fails to do.
“Well worth reading and provides a measured alternative to the exuberant welcome for the “peace plan” from many here.”
Do you actually read other people’s comments? As far as I can see, everyone thinks this plan is a piece of shit, so much so that it looks suspiciously like that’s how it was supposed to be.
Oh, come on, give me a break. Nothing “excellent” will ever come from Snyder. This is the guy who claimed that Hitler started WW2 to occupy Ukraine and that Stalin signed a treaty with Hitler because he wanted to destroy Europe by supporting European far-right.
Agreed, and his magnum opus “Bloodlands” is a very tedious read; very plodding and repetitive, it’s like one of those Ph.D. theses which take 300 pages to say what could be said in 50.
It’s not only that. Snyder represents a relatively new phenomena, pseudo-historians who re-write history to please some audiences they target. In Russia, these are Viktor Suvorov and Mark Solonin; and in the West you have Timothy Snyder. His “Bloodlands” was written to please Russophobic East-Europeans and their puppet-masters in the EU. He came up with the theory of equal responsibility of Hitler and Stalin for WW2 even before it was officially adopted by EU Parliament resolution on Sept 17, 2019. Moreover, Snyder’s thesis that Hitler was obsessed with Ukraine is a lie. But it made the Ukrainian nationalists who suffer from inferiority complex feel some greatness.
Agree again. My objection, I suppose, was more aesthetic than “political”, because you can’t disregard or escape from the aesthetics of a work but you are free to make up your own mind about the validity or otherwise of the author’s theses, including as a result of other reading.
Just one question : why do you call him a “pseudo” historian? If it’s simply because you disagree with his theses, then OK, but I do think it’s rather cheap. There are several examples of people who are not “professional” historians (eg like A.J.P Taylor) but who still make a pretty good fist of what they do (Anthony Beevor, Max Hastings, etc).
2 Luis Cunha da Silva:
Historians operate by certain rules; their goal is to tell us what happened and to try to explain why. First come the facts, then analysis, then conclusion. A pseudo-historian works in reverse order, making facts and analysis fit to the conclusion he already has. Therefore, a pseudo-historian has to omit some facts and distore some other facts, or else his conclusion won’t look valid. And this is what Snyder did in his Bloodlands. A detailed analysis can be found in, for example, “Timothy Snyder’s Lies” by Daniel Lazare and some other articles.
As for me, I can point to Snyders lies myself. For example, contrary to Snyder’s claims, nowhere is Ukraine or Ukrainians mentioned in Mein Kampf or Hitler’s “2nd Book” or his early speeches. It is not mentioned also in his Directive on Operation Barbarossa. As we can assume, he did not separate Ukraine in an ethnic and political sence from the rest of Russia, for in the Nazi planning “Ukraine” meant the whole South of European USSR, all the way to Saratov on Volga river and Kuban’ and Stavropol areas in North Caucasus. Everywhere where crops were high and excess food was produced was “Ukraine” to them.
The excellent Steve Rosenberg reviews the Russian press on the “peace plan”.
https://youtu.be/6yVMVf2dZWA?si=hhCMRFggqKlayLBt
Not much confidence in Moscow that the “peace plan” will be accepted by Europe or Ukraine.
And worry that it will be replaced by a plan unacceptable to Putin.
I can imagine JK redux talking about the dangers of International Communism thus… Smash the communists, wipe them off the face of the earth, smash the dirty red scum, kick em in the teeth where it hurts, kill, kill, kill filthy b*****d commies, I hate em I hate em aargh, aargh,
JK’s partner.. “tea is ready dear”, “coming darling”. /S ‘Bicycle repair man’ Monty Python.
https://youtu.be/Tq_xTeWiv6I?t=186
The European political class still regard Russia as beyond the pale, Russia is now a capitalist country and wants to trade with the rest of the world, because, being the largest country in the world (covering 11 time zones) and has an abundance of natural resources, it is well placed to supply the world with what it needs and at a cheap price. Unfortunately “the West” led by the US could see their hegemony slipping away, that should never happen, here we are.
Harry Law
November 24, 2025 at 11:29
Harry, your insight into my domestic arrangements is remarkable.
(You, I take it, live with your widowed mother in the spare bedroom of her house? Nah. That’s not fair, a real revolutionary lives in a squat in the former E Berlin with his clothes kept in a German Army surplus backpack.)
Re Russia, the land and its people are remarkable.
Unfortunately, as I commented earlier, the regime and the political culture are loathsome.
I hope you do not take my jibe literally, merely a John Cleese representation of many of your comments.
“Re Russia, the land and its people are remarkable,
Unfortunately, as I commented earlier, the regime and the political culture are loathsome”.
Russians are no better and no worse than any other ‘peoples’ to imply otherwise is both insulting and deeply racist . I think I have hit a nerve, you should lighten up and accept some ‘sledging’ like when the Aussie wicket keeper said to Ian Botham on taking strike, “how’s your wife and my kids”, Botham.. “the wife’s fine, but the kids are retarded” Ouch!
Harry Law
November 24, 2025 at 12:42
Harry. I said “Re Russia, the land and its people are remarkable”.
Hardly racist.
And I stand by my comments re the regime and the political culture.
PS it’s early in the Winter for sledging….. Try again in January.
In the basement actually, I am a mere private (first class) in a Russian overseas ‘first keyboard brigade”, propaganda unit /S. I realize you are a lost cause but other contributors to this blog can see NATO encroachment on Russian territory as the cause of this war. Just as the US thought encroachment of Soviet bases in Cuba (1962) was wrong, causing a potential nuclear war So Russia in very similar circumstances thinks NATO encroachment poses a similar threat to its national security. Many western leaders have said.. they want to split Russia up into its component parts, then move in and gorge on the prostrate body, Putin had other ideas, he did a deal with China and the global south, now the BRICS have a much faster growth rate than the G7 while the west particularly Europe flounder in an economic disaster of its own making
Harry Law
November 24, 2025 at 13:18
Harry, the logic of your position re “encroachment” of NATO member countries on Russia is that Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland – all NATO members “encroaching” on Russian territory – should be ….. (?) subjected to retaliation by Russia?
Tragic to relate, Russia has failed to subjugate Ukraine in its 3 year war.
Subjugating its NATO neighbours/encroachers will take a lot longer.
Whoever controls the ‘Heartland’ a geopolitical area including the huge area of Ukraine, controls the world, concluded Halford Mackinder in his series of books, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Carters Nat Sec advisor followed Mackinders theory in his book ‘the grand chessboard’, Clinton and Bush wanted to include that great geopolitical prize Ukraine in NATO. Ukraine with NATO missiles a few minutes flying time from Moscow and NATO bases sealing Russia off from the Mediterranean and western Europe was a geopolitical prize not to be missed, against the advice of many political scientists and Ambassadors, in particular George Kennan who warned this would be a fateful mistake, and could mean war.
The powers that be in the US thought Russia weak or as ‘wet start’ Johnny McCain thought ‘a gas station posing as a nation’ now we know, and the US fearing a huge loss of credibility refuses to admit defeat, since no Americans are dying.. yet.
The Ukrainian panhandler appears to have Germany, France and the UK on his side, but for how long since Starmer is reported to be the worst PM in UK history with an approval rating of 12%? The other leaders are watching their economies tank with approval ratings just as low.
The borders of much of Europe have been changing regularly over the past 200 years. The notion that we could engage in a nuclear exchange over whether Russian speaking peoples in Crimea and four Oblast’s who have voted by large majorities to be part of the Russian Federation and are now officially included in the Russian constitution, is ludicrous. The Neocon gambit on world hegemony has failed, spectacularly, what could be left is a landlocked Ukraine, forever at the teat of the EU (whatever is left of it) and a chastened US to face the BRICS alone and in a multi polar world.
JK Redux, the issue of Finland joining NATO after being neutral for so long is going to be a two edged sword,Finland has in effect made itself into a front line belligerent NATO state with a huge border with Russia, this stance, I think precipitately taken will prove to be against Finland’s best interests, already with the Russian borders closed, Finland’s economy is faltering, because of virtually no cross border trade, no Russian visitors, Air Finland no longer has the permission to overfly Russia, thereby enabling competitors to undercut them. It must also contribute 5% of GDP to NATO and generally do as the US say. Not a good bargain as Professor Jeffrey Sachs explains here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXw-jjDARuw
Re: ‘The European political class still regard Russia as beyond the pale, Russia is now a capitalist country and wants to trade with the rest of the world’
The EU is still literally buying tens of billions of dollars worth of fossil fuels from Russia every year, Harry, making a big contribution to its war/SMO effort.
“The EU is still literally buying tens of billions of dollars worth of fossil fuels from Russia every year, Harry, making a big contribution to its war/SMO effort”.[sic] If I understand you correctly, you are right, proving that Europeans are hypocrites, as an aside India in particular are supplying Europe with finished products notably diesel fuel to European markets, everybody knows the Indians have purchased massive amounts of Russian oil at discount prices and act as a profitable ‘middle man’ to sell to the Euro idiots at inflated prices.
Thanks for your reply Harry. The tens of billions figure refers to fossil fuels bought directly from Russia, so obviously the EU doesn’t really regard Russia as beyond the pale.
Re: ‘you are right’
It’s an annoying habit. What was the ‘[sic]’ for?
Re-lapsed Agnostic, yes you are correct, we are both correct since Euro bought Russian fossil fuels are notably down, imports from India, finished products made with Russian oil are up, thus my accusation of Euro hypocrisy. The [sic] application was because I wanted to be sure of your quote. Also having that mild altercation with JK redux I was still in belligerent mode and wanted to be sure I understood you correctly.
“In 2021, Russia supplied the EU with 45 percent of its gas and 27 percent of its oil. By 2024, these values dropped to 19 percent and 3 percent, respectively. Last week the European Commission said it was preparing to introduce tariffs on Russian oil imports entering the EU through Hungary and Slovakia. “They’re funding the war against themselves. Who the hell ever heard of that one?” Trump was referring to the more-than one billion euros ($1.35bn) EU countries are still paying to Russia each month for fossil fuels. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/10/3/how-much-of-europes-oil-and-gas-still-comes-from-russia
Yes, Harry, our resident ” West Is Best ” ( viewed from inside a soapy, quasi-narcotic bubble ) Tepid Warrior, seems to be getting more hysterical by the day. Probably because his longed-for Putin-erasing Rapture is looking extremely unlikely to be fulfilled.
It always baffles me why people would spent hours and hours of their lives on a website of another person whose views they diametrically oppose. Do they imagine they’re going to change the opinion of the majority of fellow posters whose views, in the main, align with those of the host? How’s that working out for you?
Or is it – as I suspect – that, not content with the overwhelming political lockstep of 99.9% of the Legacy Media reflecting their opinions, they feel unable to leave the small % of non-conforming, * dissident * voices alone and have to stick their ( ridiculous ) conformist noses in to distract, divert and ( they hope ) annoy those who disagree with them?
And, no, I don’t want this site, or other similarly oriented sites, to become an echo chamber where everyone agrees with each other on everything; but I would like there to be a few places remaining free of the niggling, nitpicking and plain disagreeing-for-the-sake- of-disagreeing which characterises such interlopers. A place of refuge from the 24/7 365 brain-numbing lies – by omission & commission, wilful distortion and intelligence insulting bullshit
Re: ‘It always baffles me why people would spent hours and hours of their lives on a website of another person whose views they diametrically oppose.’
The views of our host:
‘I could not believe Putin really would invade Ukraine, because I could see no sensible outcome for him. I still cannot. Initiating a war on this scale has no legal justification, and no moral justification either.’
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2022/02/ukraine-how-can-the-war-end/ (1st paragraph)
As far as I’m aware, never officially renounced.
I’m pretty sure Craig changed his mind from that statement to say he agreed that Russia was left with no other option than to react to the – then – latest provocation: after President Putin on behalf of his country – had said repeatedly that Ukraine joining NATO was something they simply COULD not accept – and having to face the fact that NATO//US was never going to stop provoking and effectively insulting Russia.
Craig may have subsequently changed his mind again and I never noticed. On reflection, I’m not ” pretty sure ” he changed his mind from the statement you quote; I’m absolutely certain he did.
Thanks for your reply Robert. In early 2022, Ukraine was not about to join NATO but, as a sovereign state, provided the other members agreed, it still had every right to join whatever organisations and alliances it wished.
Re: ‘On reflection, I’m not ” pretty sure ” he changed his mind from the statement you quote; I’m absolutely certain he did.’
Perhaps you can find some evidence of him stating that he’d changed his mind and now thought that the invasion/SMO was morally justified.
Hi R/l A . No, I’m not going to wade through months of Craig’s posts to find that statement. It would be much easier if he just stated, himself, whether he said what I remember him saying
I definitely remember Craig thinking at the start of the war that Ukraine could retake Crimea. At the time I observed that Russia wouldn’t have launched the “SMO” if it wasn’t confident of winning. Their military experts and strategists were certainly going to be better informed than anyone in these quarters including me, so I deferred to them. But my observations seemed to have little impact.
“In early 2022, Ukraine was not about to join NATO but, as a sovereign state, ”
This is one of those new “official” meanings for “sovereign state”, is it, which includes states where other states choose who is to form the executive arm of the government?
Robert Hughes
November 24, 2025 at 13:42
Robert, if your comment “people would spent hours and hours of their lives on a website of another person whose views they diametrically oppose” is directed at me?
I first came to this site when Craig was mainly focussed on Scottish Indy. Which I unreservedly supported and support.
Over the years since IndyRef 1 was lost, my impression is that the focus has shifted to Israel/Gaza and to a lesser extent Russia/Ukraine.
I support Craig’s position on Israel/Gaza/Palestine.
But not his position on Ukraine.
You characterize my posts here as “disagreeing-for-the-sake- of-disagreeing which characterises such interlopers”.
Perhaps better to leave that judgement to the mods…
” I first came to this site when Craig was mainly focussed on Scottish Indy. Which I unreservedly supported and support.”
Fair enough, JK. I’ve been reading Craig for a few years too, but can go months, often several, without looking in, so I honestly have not seen you do anything other than disagree with Craig and the majority of posters here: hence my – possibly distorted – impression of your motivation for commenting here.
Glad you support Scottish Independence 🙂
JK redux
With great respect, anyone who has to call on Steve Rozenberg for support must be quite desperate.
Luis Cunha da Silva
November 24, 2025 at 15:00
Luis, all SR did was translate paragraphs from current Russian newspapers.
Are you suggesting that his translations are inaccurate or misleading?
Thank you for that question, JK. You’re quite a fan of his, so it is quite understandable that you should quote him. And it is that which shows you are desperate.
Luis Cunha da Silva
November 24, 2025 at 20:59
Luis, all Steve Rosenberg did was translate paragraphs from current Russian newspapers.
Are you suggesting that his translations are inaccurate or misleading?
Thank you for repeating the question, JK redux. As I said, you’re quite a fan of his (about as much as he is not a fan of the Russian government), so it is quite understandable that you should quote his translations (of, no doubt, carefully selected pieces). And it is that which shows you are desperate.
“Not much confidence in Moscow that the “peace plan” will be accepted by Europe or Ukraine.”
Does it occur to you that that might just be because they think it’s shit, just like you do, but for the opposite reason?
If I follow your reasoning, it goes like this: “this plan is more favourable to Russia than I’d like, therefore it must have been drawn up by the Russians. However, their cunning plan isn’t working, because no-one in Europe is buying it”. This strikes me like the proof a friend of mine offered that he had been abducted by aliens: he had no memory of it, but that was because the aliens would have wiped his memories before they returned him to Earth, so that they could remain undiscovered, or the proof that another friend was employed by MI5: when asked if he was employed by MI5, he denied it, but that’s what they would have told him to say, so it proves that he was.
Bayard
November 24, 2025 at 19:15
I was giving a quick summary of SR’s Russian press review.
The actual review is interesting imo.
“I was giving a quick summary of SR’s Russian press review.”
Yes you were. I looked at it and there was nothing to suggest that this was a plan put forward by the Kremlin, which is the main pillar of your argument. It’s hardly surprising that they didn’t think much a plan dreamt up by Trump’s “advisers” without reference to them.
As one expected, Trump team flipped (most likely) just like that after meeting Ukraine/EU reps. So obvious this would happen. No we are back to square one.
The Ukraine war have turned into one of the most propagandized war there ever was. Majority of westerners have still absolutely no idea what is going on on the ground or about the history of the conflict, they are daily indoctrinated by MSMs hysterical, and big scary headlines about evil Russians and/or a sentiment that the war goes so badly for Russia and so good for Ukraine and that the war is somehow a war for “democracy” vs evil totalitarianism. It is simply impossible to start an argument with a majority of westerners because they lack the most basic of facts: either you get the “you are a russian troll” in response or they mimic the talking points they heard in the MSM.
To know what is going on in Ukraine have become a vested interest.
There is so much deceit, so much lies, so much omission and revisionism, from the West. There is also a boom of “war influencers” on social media that reach out to hundreds of thousands of followers, brainwashing them daily that the win is near.
Canadian/Ukrainian professor Ivan Katchanovski that have been a vocal war critic since Maidan events recently released a book on the events that lead to the war, the book is free to download here:
” The Russia-Ukraine War and its Origins
From the Maidan to the Ukraine War”
https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-031-98724-3
Intercepted my arse – monitored maybe – I’m under the impression Le Manche, (English Channel) is an international water way – open to ships passing through, but that doesn’t stop the British scaremongering media (propaganda machine) – from hinting that Russia is about to invade Britain.
I’m confident Russia will be an ally to Scotland when we get rid of the illegal union.
——————————–
“The Royal Navy has intercepted two Russian warships off the coast of Britain, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) has said.
HMS Severn, a patrol vessel, shadowed the RFN Stoikiy corvette and a tanker vessel as they sailed into the Channel over the past fortnight.
The MoD did not say exactly when the interception occurred, but that it formed part of a “round-the-clock shadowing operation”.”
Republic of Scotland
“I’m confident Russia will be an ally to Scotland when we get rid of the illegal union”
Do you mean in the same way as Russia became an ally to the Irish Free State and the Irish Republic after the union was broken?
Or in the same way, indeed, as it is an ally to the Palestinians?
No – with great respect, I would venture to suggest that Russia would treat an independent Scotland in the same way as it treats every other state, that is, by giving priority to what it sees as its own interests.
“No – with great respect, I would venture to suggest that Russia would treat an independent Scotland in the same way as it treats every other state, that is, by giving priority to what it sees as its own interests.”
Luis Cunha da Silva
On the above that’s how states work – would it not be in Russia’s interests to be able to trade where it once couldn’t – and wouldn’t that be in Scotland’s interests to openly trade with Russia – long before the illegal union was forced upon Scotland – Scotland traded with Hanseatic nations for a thousand years, which included Novgorod – a major Rus trading centre.
Also Scotland will need to be defended – so why not purchase what appear to be proficient weapons from Russia.
Oh dear, Republic of Scotland. Normal trade between Russia and the UK (and all EU and NATO countries) will have resumed, as a consequence of the cessation of hostilities, a long time before Scotland is likely to get independence.
As a result of the cessation of hostilities, normal trade with Russia will resume whether or not Scotland has become independent.
So your argument is otiose.
” Normal trade between Russia and the UK (and all EU and NATO countries) will have resumed, as a consequence of the cessation of hostilities”
Luis Cunha da Silva
You think so?
Do you actually think that the US will give up its selling of LNG to Europe at a higher cost to allow Russia to sell its gas to Europe – why do you think the NordStream pipeline was blown up in the first place? plus the EU bigwigs such as Kallas and von der Leyen, loathe Russia with a vengeance and the EU WILL continue to support Ukraine.
As for the UK there is no UK – both the Scottish and English crowns are still active and Westminster is England parliament – there is no UK parliament – Scottish sovereignty and English sovereignty are utterly incompatible as for independence Scotland is a colony of England’s held illegally – once on the UN’s C-24 group, a lot will change in Scotland.
Republic of Scotland
Allow me to wrap this one up with the following comments:
1. Your final para is all very interesting, but has nothing to do the issue I has thought we were discussing.
2. With reference to your second para, I would point out that trade does comprise things other than oil and gas from Russia (or whisky from Scotland, for that matter). From what I have seen from your posts, you are a fervent Scottish independentist, which is certainly why – for quite understandable reasons – you tend to ascribe sole and overwhelming importance to oil and gas.
To round off – any thoughts yet on Russia as an “ally” to the Irish Free State/Irish Republic and the Palestinians (cf my post at 15:09)?
“1. Your final para is all very interesting, but has nothing to do the issue I has thought we were discussing.”
Luis Cunha da Silva
With regards to the above, on the contrary you mention independence twice in your previous comment – I merely added a bit of info to it.
—————————
“which is certainly why – for quite understandable reasons – you tend to ascribe sole and overwhelming importance to oil and gas.”
Really?
I mentioned once, and not with Scotland in mind in our exchange and that was to do with the USA/Russia and Europe.
Thank you for that reply, Republic of Scotland.
I think you seem to mention oil and gas quite a bit – not in that post of yours we’re examining, but in the wider corpus of your posts. Indeed, it would be remiss of you not to mention oil and gas frequently when theorizing about a theoretical future independent Scotland!
But let’s stop nit-picking. An important point you made in your initial post is that Russia would be an ally to an independent Scotland. I challenged that, by asking whether you thought that Russia (in fact its precurser, the USSR) had become an ally to the Irish Free State/Republic of Ireland after it broke off from Great Britain. I have not yet seen your answer……
” I challenged that, by asking whether you thought that Russia (in fact its precurser, the USSR) had become an ally to the Irish Free State/Republic of Ireland after it broke off from Great Britain. I have not yet seen your answer……”
Luis Cunha da Silva
The ROI’s allies are not in anyway a measure of what’s Scotland’s could/will be – you can’t judge which country will be an ally on the assumption of other nations, and who their allies are.
On the breaking off – Scotland won’t break off from something that never legally existed – no matter how many documents A .V Dicey falsified – Scotland is a country that’s held as a colony of England’s – many countries have experienced this from England, we (Scotland) are unfortunately next door – and it may take longer to free ourselves – I’m hoping when we are added to the UN’s C-24 group it speeds things up a bit.
“…hinting that Russia is about to invade Britain.”
and they’re welcome to it. ;O)
Of course at first I read “The Beast of the War Drums”…
Although that would overstate the EU´s true naval capabilities.
But as long as MSM and elite “discourse” are firmly in the hands of the reigning propagandists it doesn´t matter how much Europe ridicules itself on the world stage. The will carry on like the popes with their doomed crusades.
Of course I wonder what would be the critical mass of dissenters necessary to change course.
Since obviously below the surface all kinds of people are opposed to this evil madness.
And for now they don´t dare speak out.
Short of a by election, the next test is the nationwide local elections next May. Any ‘boots on the ground and planes in the air’ nonsense from Starmer could bring the pitchforks out.
UK sit. more volatile than FRG I believe. Because more “class society” and I would speculate more anger among the commoners than in Germania. Nazism did cost us aristocracy as an influential agent of power…
That is almost as much as they stole from the public purse during Covid.
” the UK (that has sent over £21.8 BILLION to Ukraine) unemployment on the rise, so too energy bills, inflation, poorer public services, tax rises imminent.
People here need to recognise who the real enemy is. It resides in Downing Street”
https://nitter.poast.org/Documark
Worse than that, it resides in Westminster.
“650 idiots who prefer to deal in facile virtue signalling and consensus politics about trivia rather than tackling real issues.” Said someone.
“650 idiots who prefer to deal in facile virtue signalling and consensus politics about trivia rather than tackling real issues”.
And grabbing money. Please don’t forget the money. You should always follow the money.
“That is almost as much as they stole from the public purse during Covid.”
I suppose it’s better if the stolen money ends up in the hands of corrupt Britons, rather than corrupt Ukranians, for very small values of “better”. At least the corrupt Britons might spend some of it in the UK. It does seem that the question is now not whether the government will raid the public purse, but what they will spend the proceeds on. If Farage wins the next election, who will feel the benefits of his largesse?
“I suppose it’s better if the stolen money ends up in the hands of corrupt Britons, rather than corrupt Ukranians,”
Bayard.
Flawed logic, better not to have it stolen at all.
“Flawed logic, better not to have it stolen at all.”
Of course, but the theft appears to be a given.
You may find this interesting Craig, with Edinburgh in mind.
“The Edinburgh tram extension has nothing to do with public transport. It is about connecting two ‘Bio Quarters’ one at the RIE and a new one at Granton. By a sheer coincidence both these sites are in the Forth Freeport area. The public paying for private enterprise infrastructure
And.
The cost of this is 2.9 billion, bearing in mind EDC are already 100 million in debt. The current tram is losing 10 million per year propped up by the profit made on bus services. Journey time by bus from Granton to RIE 35 mins, tram time 61 mins, its a fraud”
Shades of HS2 !
Freeports are outside of UK control. They are not sovereign British territory, any more than the Mildenhall Airbase is on British land. They are owned by outside interests and should not be lawful. They can employ people who are not subject to UK taxation, public services, or pension contributions. They are gated communities. Those PMs with American Green Cards might think they are a good idea for a new form of indentured slavery. Not a good thing. Scotland, Wales, and Liverpool are being targeted for the dry runs.
“The trouble with capitalism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money.” As that renowned political philosopher Marina Hyde once opined.
The response of the Obama administration was Quantitative Easing, which stands as the Olympus Mons of financial fraud. The response of the Trump administration is to dragoon putative allies into handing over trillions of dollars to the US, which stands as the Olympus Mons of extortion rackets.
Devant nous le deluge, as the character whose moniker I have pilfered may well have said
“The response of the Obama administration was Quantitative Easing, which stands as the Olympus Mons of financial fraud”.
Yes. Many people still associate “the big lie” technique with Hitler and Goebbels, but the latter was always eager to acknowledge that he learned everything he knew about propaganda from the American Edward Bernays. American mastery of the big lie has extended to concealing the fact that Americans are the masters of the big lie.
‘There’s an old joke that goes like this:
A Soviet and an American are on an airplane seated next to each other.
“Why are you flying to the US?” asks the American.
“To study American propaganda,” replies the Soviet.
“What American propaganda?” asks the American.
“Exactly,” the Soviet replies’.
– Caitlin Johnstone, https://www.lewrockwell.com/2024/02/no_author/in-the-war-of-propaganda-it-is-very-difficult-to-defeat-the-united-states/
Starmer today “calling” for Reform UK to investigate possible Russian links – while the American links are as clear as day and never get investigated. It’s ‘look over there’ time again.
Is it even permitted to mention… “you know who” links?
With Zelensky going to the US (once again) to allegedly sign the EU/US/Ukraine peace deal, increasingly signify that the diplomacy between Russia/US will break down once again.
And the EU are as clueless on how to solve the conflict.Von der Layen talking about how Ukraine must be integrated into a EU single market/military sphere – but to create a lasting peace in Ukraine Ukraine must not be used by either EU nor Russia. Ukraine is not a zero zum game as EU seems to believe:
Von der Leyen: “Ukraine must have the freedom and sovereign right to choose its own destiny. They have chosen a European destiny. It starts with the country’s reconstruction, its integration into our Single Market and our defence industrial base, and ultimately, joining our Union”.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/statement_25_2791
It is exactly this flawed policy that caused the Ukraine conflict back in 2013 when EU demanded that Ukraine sign a free trade deal only with the EU and not with Russia. As Stephen Cohen put it:
“But as for the immediate crisis, let’s ask ourselves this: Who precipitated this crisis? The American media says it was Putin and the very bad, though democratically elected, president of Ukraine, Yanukovych. But it was the European Union, backed by Washington, that said in November to the democratically elected president of a profoundly divided country, Ukraine, “You must choose between Europe and Russia.” That was an ultimatum to Yanukovych. Remember—wasn’t reported here—at that moment, what did the much-despised Putin say? He said, “Why? Why does Ukraine have to choose? We are prepared to help Ukraine avoid economic collapse, along with you, the West. Let’s make it a tripartite package to Ukraine.” And it was rejected in Washington and in Brussels. That precipitated the protests in the streets”.
https://www.democracynow.org/2014/2/20/a_new_cold_war_ukraine_violence
The protests began in late November after President Yanukovych reversed his decision to sign a long-awaited trade deal with the European Union, or EU, to forge stronger ties with Russia instead.
Almost right. It was the decision of the Ukraine Parliament, the Rada, to reject the Russian deal and go with the EU. Under pressure from Putin Yanukovych took it upon himself to ignore them and go his own way. That, as the saying goes, was when the trouble started.
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Viktor-Yanukovych
Egg zackly.
I think the situation was a bit more nuanced than the one you outline. My understanding is that Rada voted to support the intention to sign the EU deal at an upcoming Vilnius summit but was thwarted by Yanukovych’s Party of the Regions particularly over the specific issue of the release from prison of Julia Timoshenko.
Yanukovych’s decision was to suspend the decision while the Rada was at war with itself. Russia which had previously carried out its own economic war against Ukraine and which had certainly weakened its economy as a result then stepped in with its offer, and the rest followed.
As mentioned elsewhere, peace would be an economic disaster for the EU, UK and USA as their economies are war based but without the monies to fund their aggression. Therefore, the only logical conclusion is that there will be no agreements made with Russia. Formally Russia has not been involved in the current shenanigans and Putin and the parliament has essentially disowned Kirill Dmitriev’s meddling [1].
The EU, UK and USA are stitching up a deal that is designed to fail. When it inevitably does the sanctions will be increased, Russia’s stolen money will be allocated to more arms for Ukraine and the MIC will give a sigh of relief as their income streams from death and destruction are guaranteed.
More dead Ukrainians and Russians and more corruption. However, Russia will prevail as Ukraine self destructs and the EU and UK bankrupt themselves.
[1] Alistair Crooke via Unz Review.
Stevie Boy
November 25, 2025 at 17:48
Do you really believe that Russia’s economic resources exceed those of the EU?
Really?
Is that the Russia that’s energy propelled the German-European economy, that’s the leading exporter of wheat, that’s thrashing US-Nato and enjoying superior economic growth?
Squeeth
November 25, 2025 at 19:25
No.
Your Russia is a fantasy. Most Russians live lives different to the Moscow- Petersburg elite.
Why, in your view, did the USSR never export cars, IT equipment etc to the rest of the world from 1945 to the collapse?
And of course why is Russian so dependent on hydrocarbons and other raw materials like wheat and fertilisers for export products?
Cars? Computing equipment? Smart phones? Even ships and aeroplanes?
“A gas station with nukes”….
enjoying superior economic growth
Not any more it isn’t. The growth was driven by increased defence spending which was unsustainable. Russia is on course to go into recession next year according to its own central bank. Putin has already raided the sovereign wealth fund to keep the war going.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/economy/russia-s-economy-is-hurting-so-bad-that-even-putin-can-t-outrun-the-crisis/ar-AA1R1MCD
That’s where Russia is going to lose this war, not on the battlefield. What happens when there’s no more money to buy dodgy ammunition from NK (70% of artillery shells) or equipment from China (which has just hiked its prices). Do you think Russian troops are going to stay put in their freezing trenches when they stop being paid?
https://www.firstpost.com/world/xi-calls-putin-old-friend-but-china-charges-exorbitant-prices-for-war-supplies-13953827.html
@Pears Morgaine, I sincerely hope you’re right, and that dictatorial Russia with its ex-KGB leader will be finished on the battlefield, and that democratic Ukraine, aided by the Germans if necessary, will prevail in the not-too-distant future. May Zelensky and his brave soldiers maintain their integrity.
Слава Україні!
JK redux, Pears Morgaine, and M.J. – just keep dreaming, chaps. As Mark Twain liked to say, “It’s a difference of opinion that leads to horse races”.
And I know who is going to win this race. Stick around and you’ll see.
“Your Russia is a fantasy. Most Russians live lives different to the Moscow- Petersburg elite. Why, in your view, did the USSR never export cars, IT equipment etc to the rest of the world from 1945 to the collapse?”
It’s your Russia that’s the fantasy, moreover it’s an out of date fantasy, since you seem to think that the Russia of today is the same as the Russia of forty years ago if not eighty years ago. Your questions shows that you think all countries are like the Western European countries, net importers of natural resources and net exporters of manufactured goods.
I can’t see anything in Stevie Boy’s post that he believes anything of the sort.
I’ve said before: it’s not Russia. It’s China, the world’s preeminent industrial and now scientific and technological power. China’s aim is to demonstrate to the US (the rest of the West is an irrelevance) that if it starts WW3 in the Pacific, it will lose. Ukraine is where that demonstration is happening. Think this is a confection of speculation? Well, explain to yourself even if not to all of us here how it is that Russia, Iran and Yemen of all places, suddenly and independently started building and firing hypersonic missiles more advanced than what trillions of dollars of “defence” spending in the West has managed to produce. And how Russia seems capable of deploying such huge quantities of drones that just happen to contain much the same cameras and electronics present in every Chinese-made mobile phone. That China would also provide the readies Russia needs to keep the show on the road isn’t a big expectation.
Brian Berletic’s article expounds with admirable clarity and persuasive sources that the US government has been planning to strangle China economically since the 1990s. As a real expert on military affairs, who understands how war is conducted in 2025, his thesis is very frightening. It seems that regardless of checks and events, Washington continues doing everything in its power to harm and sabotage everyone else – everyone without exception, including us in Britain.
Text and video:
https://journal-neo.su/2025/11/10/us-plans-for-china-blockade-continue-taking-shape/
https://youtu.be/Xqi_cPYiT9c
Mr Berletic’s article is well complemented by Yanis Varoufakis:
“Russia’s Missiles Target U.S. Navy — Venezuela’s Deadly Warning to Washington”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VAgD2avxl8
Mr Varoufakis explains that Venezuela has the world’s biggest oil reserves, and of course Washington wants to control them. Hence the current campaign against Mr Maduro’s government. Worryingly, Mr Varoufakis says that China and Russia have very strong motives to prevent any US strong-arming of Venezuela, and that indeed they are quite well placed to do so.
Claims that Iran and Yemen have hypersonic missiles need to be treated with scepticism. No evidence has been seen of either, the Yemen missile (which helpfully has the word ‘hypersonic’ written on it) is claimed to travel at Mach 16, twice the speed claimed for the Russian Zircon! Iran has a history of producing fakes. Remember the stealth fighter that was an obvious mock-up?
Pears, I’ve seen footage of Iranian and Yemeni missiles striking targets in Israel. The Iranian hypersonic strikes are clearly different from the descent of their more conventional missiles. One is like a falling raindrop, the other like a lightning bolt. That’s not so much true of the Yemeni “hypersonic” strike I saw. But most certainly both of those and also Hezbollah now have precision guided missiles that actually strike targets rather than coming down in corn fields and I very much doubt they developed those guidance systems themselves either. Israel of course has now taken measures to stop people posting embarrassing mobile phone footage on social media.
Pears, I’ve seen footage of Iranian and Yemeni missiles striking targets in Israel.
From which you were able to accurately determine the speed… From all descriptions the missiles are conventional supersonic ballistic missiles powered by solid fuel rockets not the advanced ram jets needed for that kind of speeds. The Houthis fired two Palestinian 2 missiles about a year ago since when seemingly nothing. Why haven’t they pounded Israel into submission yet?
The capabilities of Russia’s Zircon and Kinzhal missiles have been over hyped. Examples of both have been shot down.
https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and_tech/the_zm22_zircon_missile_hypersonic_and_superior_to_the_kinzhal_speeds_and_engine_details_revealed-9959.html
Pears, did I say anywhere that I could determine the speed of the missiles? I said I could see the *difference* in speed of the missiles. Back to reading comprehension class for you. Well not really, because you don’t address the other points I’ve made. You’re just a nitpicker trying to sustain a losing argument.
Well so far I’ve not seen any evidence that these missiles are anywhere as fast and as capable as claimed.
“Do you really believe that Russia’s economic resources exceed those of the EU?”
Do you really not believe that Russia’s natural resources exceed those of the EU? Where you have natural resources, economic resources will follow, unless you allow those natural resources to be stolen by other countries.
Indeed, Stevie Boy. You are right on the money. All the incessant chatter about “negotiations” and “peace deals” is simply intended to keep the gullible proles quiet, and (if possible) fool the Russians.
But they have already been fooled so often that they have given that up for Christmas. As Mr Putin said the other day, his preferred solution is a plain military one. Russia will keep on winning until the Kiev mob either surrender – unlikely as their necks might start to feel tender – or flee to the West and what they hope will be their reward, relaxing in luxury villas as long as they live.
Which may actually not be all that long. The market value of a used traitor is very low.
She, nor the EU have ever acknowledged the fact that many in Ukraine’s East felt they were victims of a western-backed power grab during Euromaidan. I won’t get into whether Yanukovych was more or less corrupt than presidents who came before or after, because they all stand accused. Zelensky himself is mired in a present day corruption scandal, in wartime, that involves more money(100m) than Ukraine’s entire procurement budget used to be.
Petro Poroshenko and Zelenskyy were angrily accusing each other of being corrupt, prior to Russia’s invasion. The fact is Yanukovych was voted in fair and square, and in parts of the east received >90% of the vote, should have counted for something. The fact the people overthrowing him were more pro-EU, was, and still is, all that seemingly matters to the bloody EU. von der Leyen calls it the ‘revolution of dignity’. I doubt any country in Europe, or the U.S., would view an angry mob removing an elected official, in such rosy terms.
That’ll be the zionist version of dignity, like burning alive over 40 people in Odessa !!
“I doubt any country in Europe, or the U.S., would view an angry mob removing an elected official, in such rosy terms”
It does depend, of course on who is being removed and who is doing the removing. I feel this picture illustrates this principle up quite well: https://preview.redd.it/oey2qspw6qby.jpg?auto=webp&s=8a57a5ccd0df0b050c29e0479a18964a9be6f28e
This A! response to a question how does the Russian economy compare to the economies of EU countries might throw a bit o flight on the above discussion.
PPP GDP Perspective
– Russia (PPP GDP 2025): ~$7.1 trillion – ranked 4th globally and largest in Europe.
– This places Russia ahead of Germany, France, the UK, and Italy when adjusted for cost of living.
– In PPP terms, Russia’s economy is comparable to the combined size of several EU blocs.
📌 Key Takeaways
– Nominal GDP: Russia is mid-tier in Europe, behind the “big four” (Germany, UK, France, Italy) but ahead of Spain and all other EU members.
– PPP GDP: Russia jumps to the top spot in Europe, reflecting its lower cost of living and domestic purchasing power.
– Population factor: Russia’s 146 million people give it a larger domestic market than any EU member (Germany is next at ~84 million).
– Strategic implication: While Russia lags behind the EU’s largest economies in nominal terms, its PPP strength and resource base make it a heavyweight in comparative terms.
Alternatively, the real time world debt clocks give a good idea of the trouble the west is in.
https://usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html
On that relative purchasing power vs GDP conundrum, I think it was Aaron Bastani who pointed out that crude economic comparisons involving GDP, miss the basic, obvious point; namely, the fact an economy the size of Spain or Italy couldn’t sustain war against the West for three years. Got to remember also, that Russia makes its own missiles, rockets, glide bombs etc.
Over $360 billion plus into Ukraine to date from western donors, the UK alone has pledged £21.8 billion. I’m surprised Ukraine has been indulged financially, as they have. And if von der Leyen, Kallas and Metsola had to stand for direct election, they’d have a tough time explaining why a non-EU member, Ukraine, is taking up all the EU’s bandwidth. And no, I don’t think that plucky Ukrainians are defending western Europe from a Russian invasion into mainland Europe: that is just western propaganda aimed at keeping public support and justifying the continued funding.
Crispa
November 25, 2025 at 22:31
https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/PPPGDP@WEO/OEMDC/ADVEC/WEOWORLD
The table shows Germany with a total GDP (PPP) of 6.15 thousand and Russia slightly ahead with 7.14 thousand.
That’s Russia vs Germany alone.
The EU aggregate figure is 29.24 thousand.
How many Ukrainians and Palestinians will our dear EU leaders (incl.Kid Starver) send to their graves by our weapons and our Russophobic croaking this winter?
What does it take for people to rise and take resolve to act up?
The last straw will be the abolishing of jury’s, lawyers solocitors and Judges colluding to cut one arm off the scales of Justitia, because we are letting them do it and are too scared to pipe up incl. me.
nevermind
November 26, 2025 at 16:51
How are “EU leaders” sending Ukrainians to their graves?
That’s Putin’s role….
How are “EU leaders” sending Ukrainians to their graves?
By continuing to block every peace effort even ceasefire attempts. If the West really cared about ukrainian lives, they would of course have made every effort to stop the war already in 2022, instead they escalated it to irrational levels and the more ukrainian lives have been lost.
Just today I read how the US call on EU to stop escalting/prolonging the war. Who would have thought that the US would be less warmongering than the EU? EU is caught up in a dangerous war psychosis!
“US warned Europeans about danger of dragging out Ukraine conflict – NYT “
https://swentr.site/news/628517-russian-arms-production-nyt/
The West simply use Ukraine/ukrainians as a cannon fodder, they say it themselves, by claiming Ukraine is the “frontline”. The undeniable fact is that the war will sooner or later end on Russia’s term. So many lives lost (on both sides), for what? I think the the invasion by Russia is stupid but one must be honest and realistic that they had the upper hand from the getgo and therefore Ukraine should make a deal because the alterantive is them losing more lives and more land.
Jack
November 27, 2025 at 12:32
The moral responsibility for deaths in a war of choice lies entirely with the party that began the war.
Unless you believe that the victim of an unprovoked assault is responsible for the injuries caused in his self-defense.
Your comment “I think the the invasion by Russia is stupid” is bathetic, as in trite or banal. The magnitude of the human suffering caused by Putin’s war of choice against Ukraine is staggering.
A better phrase would be “I think the the invasion by Russia is monstrous and barbarous”.
Jk redux
Yes Russia invaded on 2022 but the internal war in Ukraine had been going on since 2014. I believe one must move away from this revisionist view that the war somehow started out of the blue in februray 2022.
I have no problem admitting that Russia made a folly to invade Ukraine, you can go back and check what I wrote here days after Russia invaded, I was very critical – but that fact of a folly do not diminish the fact that Russia have the upper hand in this conflict and if pro-ukrainians in the EU really cared about ukrainian lives they would of course made peace with Russia long time ago.
” Russia invaded on 2022 but the internal war in Ukraine had been going on since 2014. ”
Yes it was an internal matter into which Russia had no right to interfere.
It would be one thing if any serious peace proposals had been put on the table. The latest Trump plan was nothing short of appeasement which would not bring a lasting peace. As long as Ukraine is prepared to fight on we should support them.
Yes it was an internal matter into which Russia had no right to interfere.
That is naive. If ethnic russians are mistreated or even killed there will obviously be an intervention by Russia.
In august only 24% of ukrainians supported a policy of continuing the war until Ukraine win. By now that number is most likely even lower:
https://news.gallup.com/poll/693203/ukrainian-support-war-effort-collapses.aspx
Sooner or later you must become rational about things and pick the least bad alternative.
“Yes it was an internal matter into which Russia had no right to interfere.”
Would you also agree that the Balkan War was an internal matter into which NATO had no right to interfere?
The Gallup Poll shows support for a negotiated settlement, not the unconditional surrender currently on the table.
Pears Morgaine
Well of course, the longer the war goes on the higher risk Ukraine will face a definitive defeat. What did you expect?
The maximalist notion that Ukraine want to fight until they win (that is, winning back all regions) have obviously very little support amongst ukrainians themselves and did you not say that you support whatever ukrainians support?
did you not say that you support whatever ukrainians support?
I did indeed and if they want to try for a negotiated settlement or even surrender that’s their choice although the latter is not something I’d be happy with for a number of reasons. What I don’t support is forcing them into total surrender by ceasing support.
If someone encouraged children to venture into a forest where they got eaten by bears, would you take their side and say “Not their fault. It’s the bears to blame.”?
If the bears attacked the children in their own gardens would you take the parents’ guns away because the bears are bigger and more powerful?
Rather a bear protecting it’s kin on the other side of the fence.
Merz gibt aus blutige Schmerzen, junge Soldaten, tot
A Haiku just for you JK.
Maybe this reminds you of the pain the EU is planning for the Soldiers they are conscrpting, to bleed to death in central Europe, goading Russia with boots on the ground, with missiles and sanctions.
Natos words are just lies ‘not one inch expansion into eastern Europe’, now their weapons, advisors and liars Galore are slobbering to get involved.
‘dont you get cold feet now JKRedux’, you know you want to be in the frontline.
Meanwhile the militarisation of the Med deepens:
Trapani–Birgi Airport, located between Trapani and Marsala in Sicily, is set to become a global training center for F-35 fighter jets, serving as a twin facility to the existing F-35 training base at Luke Air Force Base in Arizona.
This development, confirmed by Italy’s defense committee president Nino Minardo and Defense Minister Guido Crosetto, aims to establish a major international hub for fifth-generation fighter pilot training, reinforcing Italy’s strategic role in the central Mediterranean.
The project is expected to begin in spring 2026 and be completed by spring 2028.
The transformation of Trapani–Birgi into a global F-35 training base has raised concerns about its potential impact on the local tourism economy and environment. Environmental groups and local representatives have questioned the decision, citing possible negative effects on protected areas such as the Stagnone di Marsala nature reserve, the Saline di Trapani e Paceco, the Egadi Islands Marine Protected Area, and Natura 2000 sites.
There are fears that increased military activity could harm the region’s natural landscape and tourism appeal, which is vital to the local economy.
Critics also warn that the shift in focus could reduce the airport’s civil aviation operations, affecting passenger traffic and the broader economic activity tied to tourism.
Despite these concerns, proponents highlight the significant economic benefits, including job creation, technological innovation, and opportunities for local businesses and defense industry partners.
The base already hosts the Italian Air Force’s 37th Fighter Wing, operating Eurofighter Typhoons, and is a forward operating base for NATO’s Airborne Early Warning and Control Force.
The decision to locate the F-35 training center at Trapani–Birgi reflects its strategic position, existing infrastructure, and operational readiness for high sortie rates and advanced training.
Dodds O’ the Glen
November 27, 2025 at 12:06
The Mediterranean has been the venue for military activity for thousands of years from antiquity to WW2 in N Africa, Greece and Italy.
And of course in Israel/Palestine/Gaza.
The Russians are actively seeking resumption of access to their base in Syria or alternatively to a base in Libya.
Nothing new under the sun.
There are reports the EU is considering ‘retaliatory’ action in response to what it calls Russia’s campaign of hybrid warfare. Quite how the EU ‘retaliates’ and on what legal basis ,I dunno?
Europe thinks the unthinkable: Retaliating against Russia
https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-thinks-the-unthinkable-retaliating-against-russia-nato-cyber-hybrid/
One of the cited incidents is alleged GPS blocking.This relates to the story about von der Leyen’s plane. It has been comprehensively debunked in a report from the very same Politico.
The Financial Times, whose correspondent was on the plane, wrote that the aircraft circled for an hour before the pilot landed using paper maps. Brussels was quick to blame Russia, calling it “blatant interference.”
However…
Flightradar24 revealed that its data showed the GPS signal was never lost and that the plane’s landing was only delayed by nine minutes.
The plane also had an electronic backup system using radio beams that enabled it to land — no paper maps required
https://www.politico.eu/article/gps-jamming-ursula-von-der-leyen-bulgaria-bulgaria-europe/
The drone sightings stories are equally sketchy. If the EU’s leadership is prepared to allow blatant lies to stand unchallenged, as with the GPS plane story, why should they trusted on anything else? If they are going to call out, mis/disinfo the EU needs to not stand accused of it themselves.
Widespread reports of GPS jamming across certain parts of Europe.
https://www.ireland.la/irish-flight-gps-jamming-linked-to-russia/
How do you know the people linking the jamming to Russia are not the people doing the jamming? (apart from not wanting to think that?)
Goose
Thanks for the link, was just about to share it myself.
As I said earlier (November 20, 2025 at 19:11), the europeans want a war to break out, in a rare situation where now diplomacy rule (Trump) and an end to the war in Ukraine is on the horizon, the europeans are so frustrated, so angry, so pent up with their hatred against Russia that they must have their war that they now seek to use offensive acts!? This is pathological.
This proves also that it was never about Ukraine, the Ukraine war could be solved tommorow but the europeans will still find whatever reasons to keep waging their war against Russia.
Unexplained things are happening, but nothing that couldn’t have other, more plausible explanations. With such high drone traffic volumes being deployed, by both sides in this war, the drone incursions into Moldova, Poland and Romania could easily be explained by loss of communication, or damage to the drones themselves, subjected as they are to anti-aircraft fire and EW signal jamming. Or Ukraine may even be repurposing captured, intact Russian drones, perhaps? Ukraine would love to drag Nato fully into this conflict, even at this late stage.
Certainly nothing worth starting a major war over. And the idea we’re currently in a ‘grey zone’ real war, is clearly hyperbole from people who should know better.
On which… I don’t know what’s so good about the European amended peace plan document the UK’s Jonathan Powell apparently had a hand in drafting. Crucially, the US’s initial 28-point plan settled the territorial matters as part of the deal, whereas the highly amended European version offers Ukraine an NATO Art 5 equivalent security guarantee, while breezily leaving territorial matters to be ‘negotiated’ by both sides at a later date. Does that seem likely?
Under the European proposals, Ukraine would have every incentive to scupper such negotiations by walking out, and then try to leverage its newly acquired NATO security guarantee. I fully understand therefore, why the US wants the land disputes settled as part of the deal. Surely, Powell and Starmer, can also see that risk, unless they want to see a NATO vs Russia war unfolding? If so, got to wonder what they’re smoking?
Goose
Exactly, instead of analyzing events like the drones in a sober, factual manner, the europeans instantly judge every event in a conspiratorical way, in a typical kneejerk reaction journalists/politicians draw up the most fantasy-filled hypothesis why Russia did this or Russia did that, without any proof, it is so absurd to watch how actively they try to find a casus belli – and it is always something new:
In recent times there was the russian interefence nonsense, then it was the Nordstream-explosions nonsense, then it was the cutting of cables in the baltic sea nonsense, then it was the drone-over-european-airports hysteria nonsense.
Time and time again they fail to prove Russia was the culprit and because of that they get more and more frustrated.
Instead of reacting with a sigh of relief that there was no malicious plot there was no russian hand behind the events, the europeans become angry: “Oh damnit it was not Russia this time either!” – seems to be the mentality.
And the europeans are certainly doing what they accuse Russia of but Russia do not make a fuzz about it every time it occur. Not to mention, EU are the ones that make sure russians are killed on the battlfield (through their arms, missiles, ammo) in Ukraine and even Russia proper, apparently this is not provocative!? What if Russia in 2003 gave Saddam Hussein long-distance missiles and that he then threatened to send against the UK or the US? Not provocative?! Still, that is what is going on today in the war in Ukraine.
EU never understand that their own behavior is causing Russia to take certain steps in return.