Will watch it later Craig and post my thots but i have to say i'm not surprised by anything these charlatans and war criminals do any more.

There is a mighty judgement gonna come on these bastards very soon,that's for sure.

Further and slightly off-topic..i was the first commnentator on The Independent's article about the new head of SIS today.I did not vent spleen or swear i simply posted Rudyard Kipling's poem Mesopotamia.I was the first post.Within an hour it had been removed and the article comments facility completely closed.

Ho hum

Regards to you in Accra Craig.

Correction to previous post>Kipling poem back up on Independent's comment section...

Links to video and audio here

http://news.parliament.uk/2009/06/foreign-secretary-gives-evidence-on-human-rights/

Foreign Secretary gives evidence on human rights
16 June 2009
Foreign Affairs Committee hears evidence from David Miliband MP, Secretary of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) for human rights inquiry. The session will focus on a number of issues which relate to the responsibilities of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) for securing the human rights of British citizens and others overseas.

•Video and Audio: David Miliband evidence session on human rights
•Foreign Affairs Committee
Image: Parliamentary copyright

It's extremely difficult not to look shifty if you are in fact a ventriloquist's dummy. Apologies for being flippant.

Archie Andrews looked rather cute.

Re Miliband's lie "we do use intelligence from torture but only where it concerns a direct threat to life"

Read this court order http://preview.tinyurl.com/ncv7je
rushed through on 13th January 2006, to prevent any press reporting of the case of Salahuddin Amin (he was tortured in Pakistan with the knowledge of the UK spooks) - his 'evidence' was used to shore up the Operation Crevice convictions.

Operation Crevice was linked to the 7/7 'players' in ways that the spooks/crown don't want the public to know about.

"Torture? I see no torture."...

http://tinyurl.com/n33ops

Leon Kuhn...

tinyurl.com/ncm7uc

Craig,

I'm commenting here only to offer moral support. It is a shame to see over 170 comments on your preceeding 'Iran' post, with a raging argument, no doubt, between eddie and everyone else, and only seven comments here on this subject for which the government terminated your career. I wish there was something more useful that I could contribute, but all I can think of is to show my respect for your ongoing dedication in opposing these atrocities.

Best wishes,
Clark

Miliband is only a puppet following orders.

But the Truth will out.

I agree with Clark - I am listening to David Miliband's appearance to the HOC FOC as I work and he is certainly chosing his words very carefully. I look forward to hearing Craig's analysis of what has been said and also what else the Committee should have asked David Miliband. The 170 comments on the previous thread are a distraction for some, but then I am sure most people who visit this blog are mainly interested in reading Craig comments.

Miliband the “B” man (everything bout this guy is average, and limited, he is the epitome of mediocrity, and he has been riding on the dead legs of his father long enough, for him to have forgotten how to stand on his own legs). He is the sort of a chap who takes orders or more politely put; cues from US, and Tel Aviv. Hence to find him denying torture to be a UK government tool is no surprise, for the nice little waiter that he is (looking at him always evokes the visions of waiters in the Indian restaurants) he has been ordered to say what he has delivered to the committee.

However, the committee itself if it were to be able to rigorously pursue this matter, would then have Craig as well as the B Man attending in the same session, and in time the B man would have spilled the beans.

Alas this is not the way the game is played, hence the torture carries on, whilst Craig is shoved out of the way, and his livelihood cut off, for making a fuss and being a trouble maker (following an agenda!!!! this is the way British discount, evidently Agenda is as bad leprosy, or chlamydia) and with Craig out of the way the screams of the poor bastards getting their eyes gouged out is not heard any more, after all; see no evil, and hear no evil policy makes for only a little bit of torture, just like a little bit of pregnancy ,and little bit of virginity

This kind of criminal behaviour is going unnoticed in our “Media” in the twenty frist century, what Justice Jackson the Nuremberg Prosecutor would make out of it all? One can only guess.

@VamanosBandidos - whenever I hear the atrocious Miliband on the radio, I can't help but think he is trying to be another Blair. Smooth-talking, spinning, lawyerly, self-interested disassembler.

My respect to anyone who can watch 47 minutes of this. I just dropped in at 48 to see the part the post refers to. I haven't found it yet, actually, but the spectacle is quite extraordinary.

At around 2.05 he talks of a "shared commitment to have no truck with torture."

"We abhor torture. We will not cooperate or collude with it" he says, at around 7.29.

Can we please have more rigour about David Miliband (DM)? I can understand the frustration that led Jives to say that DM is "only a puppet following orders". For that to be true, there would need to be evidence that DM lacks the freedom of all MPs, to walk into the Yes or No lobby as they think right on every issue. Agreed, it sometimes calls for bravery to defy your PM or party whip. But no MP is a puppet, even if they have accepted a bribe (financial or a promise of political preferment). Look at DM's record and the criticism that sticks is of being a selfish coward, unwilling to stand up for the values he (probably genuinely) espouses whenever they might damage his political ambitions. His expenses record also suggests that where self-interest and idealism might be in conflict, he does not err on the side of idealism.

When he became Foreign Secretary, I was ready to applaud DM's rhetoric (look back at some of his early speeches). He's no puppet, just a flop.

(27 mins approx) Mr Milliband is saying, regarding the British security service cooperating with ISI, for example, that before 2004 the guidance on cooperation with torture were "informal" but that "since 2004 the guidance is now comprehensive". He repeats that "since 2004 this advice has been updated". He repeats again that "the guidance before 2004 was informal" at around 38 minutes.

(31.20) He is asked whether, since the government has said it will publish the new guidance, if the government will "undertake to publish what guidance has been given?" He replies that no, the government won't, both because of the need for secrecy and "not least because of the legal cases underway". He is pressed on this, but silences the questioner with a "Really, it wouldn't be the right thing to do".

(45 mins) He is asked about "the use of intelligence overseas which has been garnered possibly through the use of torture". His questioner says "I know you like the ISC (Intelligence Services Committee) so I'll quote the ISC".
"Not as much as I like you" replies Milliband.

Some of this intelligence, his questioner adds, has already "frustrated terrorist attacks in the UK."

At 48 or so minutes, Mr Milliband explains that, if you are faced with a piece of evidence which seems to be "completely credible", but which, as his questioner asked, you "know or suspect comes from torture or mistreatment" do you then ignore it?
He then says "the assessment therefore comes whether this is a threat to life".

At 52 mins approx he is asked:
"Could you reassure us now, particularly the British people, that should information be available, albeit through torture, albeit we know how unreliable such evidence is, if you received such information that suggested that such danger was imminent to the British people, you would act on it".

To which Mr Milliband replies: "Yes".

At the beginning of the session, the chairman, Mike Gapes wished to put on record the fact that committees such as this should be appointed by parliament, and accountable to parliament, not appointed by the government.

Mil(l)ipedes guve me the shivers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millipede

The US record on torture - it was ever thus.

http://www.counterpunch.org/boggs06172009.html

Craig - thought this would interest you if you haven't already seen...

Tony Blair knew of secret policy on terror interrogations

Letter reveals former PM was aware of guidance to UK agents

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/jun/18/tony-blair-secret-torture-policy

Iain Orr - I think you are right. What concerns me is the sheer number of people who have, in terms of what one presumes to be their initial good intentions, performed a full U-turn once in the Cabinet. Can selfishness explain the mendacity of all the Blears, Blairs, Millibands, Straws and their ilk?

I believe the Cabinet acts as the executive of the real policy makers or as some people term it 'deep government'. I believe it emanates from the inner recesses of the Privy Council.

Ruth - I am cynical about such a theory, but on the other hand, I find it hard to believe that in recent times no principled people have successfully fought their way to the top. Could it be just our extraordinary bad luck that we have (and have had) cabinets and shadow cabinets of such consistently shifty and amoral careerists?

Jon,

Any really principled character would cause problems long before they reach any such high office.
Real integrity will filter itself out almost inevitably......

.....Who is going to say, "Hey, you're a pain in the arse, here's the top job."

Robin Cook was causing very serious embarrassmebt for his Labour chums by saying that "Al Qaida doesn't exist and everybody with any connection to the intelligence services knows it."
So if you get to the top and then insist on expressing an integrity that contradicts power, it seems the next thing is you die.

But there's another side to it. Maybe the economic survival of the UK is on the line so politicians come to the conclusion that they must follow the policy dictated to them, although immoral, as it benefits the majority of the people and of course their pockets. On occasions it might be necessary to imprison a few innocent people say for excise or VAT fraud to prevent exposure of the state via the secret services removing money from the country without public knowledge. This money might be used for covert actions to fill state coffers ie selling arms for oil or diamonds etc

Watched the whole Miliband session. True grit.

The transcript (which I assume will issue eventually) will be well worth a read. Stripped of all the visual and vocal posturing, it should clearly show how many of his answers were totally vacuous, with unfinished sentences left hanging in the air. A patronising and oozingly sincere delivery is no substitute for answers.

The Guardian piece, referenced above, adds a nice dimension to the exchanges on the non-publication of the pre-sanitised guidance to UK interrogators (officers/agents or whatever).

I look forward to Craig's forensic analysis of this pathetic performance when he (Craig) gets over the shock of being airbrushed out of the official story.

Both the omission of his evidence and the scheduling of Miliband before a different committee speak volumes. You could even describe them as a ringing validation of Craig's case.

Ruth,
Quote: ".....as it benefits the majority of the people and of course their pockets."

That would be a very short term consideration.
The bankers are bankrupt. We are allowing the Bank Of England and The Federal Reserve to print money (tens of trillions of dollars and pounds) to give them so that they will no longer be bankrupt but we will, owing THEIR system those trillions plus interest for the rest of our lives and our childrens' and our grandchildrens'. It is a diabolical situation.

It takes an idiot to think that allowing these bankers to fix their own mess (because that's what we're doing)is going to be good for anybody but them.
The new 'powers to regulate' given to the Fed and the BofE are simply powers to carry on their criminal enterprises without any scrutiny at all, either by us or by our elected governments.
These criminals now OWN our governments. Elected governments now have to go to these PRIVATE CORPORATIONS and ask politely to be told what they are doing to our countries....before being told to eff off.
Don't believe it? See below.

You couldn't make it up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXlxBeAvsB8

I have sent the following email to the Committee for Foreign Affairs.

_______________________________________

Dear Committee Chairman and Members,

I looked at the whole of David Miliband's evidence to the Committee yesterday. I am surprised at the lack of tenacity of Committee members in following up their questions when faced with vacuous answers from the Secretary of State. The lickspittle attitude of the Committee, including the chairman, was alarming. This committee is supposed to be holding the executive to account. I saw none of this. I saw a self-satisfied club atmosphere which projected abject gratitude towards the Secretary of State for deigning to even appear. There was no reference to the first hand evidence of Craig Murray presented before a related committee. There was no reference to the Secretary of State's refusal to appear before that other committee.

I am a citizen, and former senior civil servant, of an ex-colony of the UK, and I was educated to view the UK parliament as the mother of parliaments. I am sadly disillusioned, and not for the first time. Great Britain or Little England? When are you people going to get your act together and accept your contemporary status in the world.

The administration has destroyed the career of a worthy man in the interest of power and duplicity and doesn't consider it even worthy of mention. What sort of people are you?

Pól Ó Duibhir

Well done, Polo

It seems politicians share definitive characteristics with psychopaths/serial killers.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/06/politicians-and-serial-killers.html

Nice one, Polo.
I haven't watched Milly's performance and maybe I'm too late now. The very fact that he had the ability/right to refuse to appear before the same committee as Craig astounded me. Wouldn't you think the media would hightlight this fact, and say that his very refusal suggested the smelling of a nasty little rat.

Old habits die hard. When DM was at the DfES he got half a million pounds grant for the London Symphony Orchestra when they were skint - coincidentally his wife Louise was on the board of the orchestra at the time.

Around the same period the orchestra got a big bill from HMRC for non-payment of National Insurance. Same connection with Mr & Mrs Miliband got some help from Gordon Brown to forget about the idea of collecting NHI from orchestras who employ musicians and call them freelance to get round PAYE.

Dreoilin - Long after Miliede has left office this video/audio will be available until June 2010.

By the way I just love the job title of the biddy sitting alongside him -

Susan Hyland, Head of Human Rights Democracy and Good Governance Group, Foreign and Commonwealth Office

So ironic and an absolute joke.

Miliband is reaching out to the masses here: http://www.spirit21.co.uk/

Why not engage him?

"There is a need for humility in the West but there is also a need for responsibility from all sides rather than finger pointing." David Miliband writing on Spirit 21's blog

Thanks Mary.

I stopped paying any attention to job titles when binmen (as we always knew them) began to be called Garbage Disposal Engineers. I could probably make up a 13-word title for myself -- but not as ironic.

Nice one Polo.

there is no doubt that war criminal tony bastard blair msut be captured by any means and briought to trail -if the british are not going to hand over him to international trial then let others do that. included amonst thse criminals -soon to be condemdned -should be that bastyard blunkett tyhe terrorists and so called justice minister of today-all thse and most ogf the journlaists of england msut be put to trail and lawfully killed after found being accessory to the war crimes.

Perhaps a group of us should make a citizens arrest.

Did anyone spot Milipede's claim for his line dancing photos? A laughing stock.

FOREIGN Secretary David Miliband billed the taxpayer for photos of himself line dancing.

The South Shields MP has already come under fire over his claims and handed back £434.24 - despite previously saying: "I think that the claims I have made have been right".

But he could now face fresh controversy after the Commons authorities released hundreds of pages relating to the office and second home claims of all the country’s MPs.

Buried deep in the Foreign Secretary’s expenses is a bill for the pictures, with the claim submitted on November 14, 2006.

An apparent invoice for £50 relates to "Photographs of David Miliband line-dancing at Cleadon Park supplied on CD".

Because of swathes of information being blacked out, it is impossible to tell what the photographs were purchased for.

The Foreign Secretary’s incidental expenses provision claims also show taxpayers being charged £41.13 for an "arrears letter fee" on 23 June 2006.

It appears to be related to a letter sent by the BNP Paribas lease group relating to an "agreement" dated June 21, 2006 – although it is unclear what that is because of information being blacked out.

The letter, which has Mr Miliband’s name at the top, states that the agreement is £346.85 in arrears.

It adds: "Please note that late payments may be registered with a Credit Reference Agency and may affect your future credit rating.

"An arrears admin fee is charged on all overdue payments. An arrears letter fee of £35 plus VAT has been debited to your account and should be included with your payment for the arrears above."

Another question for Miliband that needs answering honestly if he is capable. Why are we linked up with torturers of this nature and when are we getting out of Afghanistan?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8116046.stm

Allegations of abuse and neglect at a US detention facility in Afghanistan have been uncovered by the BBC.

Former detainees have alleged they were beaten, deprived of sleep and threatened with dogs at the Bagram military base.

The BBC interviewed 27 former inmates of Bagram around the country over a period of two months.

The Pentagon has denied the charges and insisted that all inmates in the facility are treated humanely.

All the men were asked the same questions and they were all interviewed in isolation.

/.... continues